Ashland Planning Board - Oct 9th, 2025

001All right, I think we're ready for that countdown. >> Good evening everyone and welcome to the Ashlin Planning Board meeting of Thursday, October 9th. A reminder that the meeting is being broadcast and recorded. I'll call the meeting to order at 7:17. And the first item on our agenda is the chair and clerk's report. Um I don't have any new items to really to bring up at this time. Um the email has been also fairly quiet since our last meeting and I don't have a count of that. So, um we are just uh going to go on to the next meeting, next item on our agenda, which is public comment. Um we have a few people online and a few people in the room, but I'll open it up to general public comment if anyone has

002any. Any hands online? Seeing none, we're going to be very efficient this evening. Uh we will move on to the first item on our agenda which or sorry the fourth item on our agenda which is our public hearings. The first one there is 117 Oregon Road that is the T-Mobile uh cell tower. the board was sent um the draft uh the draft approval and since that um since our last meeting uh which and this has been delayed unfortunately just a little bit but we have um received additional documents um from the applicant for the the items we had noted. One of those um was uh just a mistake in a term about um areas that there are that the proper term would be that there are no areas that exceed FCC limits and there was

003a note about concrete that there is no new concrete and no changes in the concrete pad just a handdug trench and that was the the comment about the base that Deepa had noted. Um, are there any further um, who we have online? Dominica. >> Dominica, is there anything you wanted to add about the changes um, that were made or anything else that we should know about the application? >> No, through you, Madam Chair. Um, the changes or the the uh, outstanding issues that um, were pertaining to the last meeting uh, you um, just addressed right now in your comments. Um so that was just the remaining two items just the uh confirmation that for the EM that there are no uh areas that exceed and then the clarification regarding the detail >> and just to

004note that um if if you didn't if the board didn't see it um on the the current copy of the um of the decision um uh JZmine added those three items into the list of documents because they weren't on the list of documents, those three letters that those three items that we received, so they're a part of the decision. Um, are there any further comments or questions from the board about the cell tower? >> Okay, then we will um need a motion to close the public hearing. >> I'll make a motion to close the public hearing on 111 Oregon Road, T-Mobile. >> Sorry, 117 Oregon Road. Is there a second? >> Second. >> And this will be a roll call vote to close the public hearing starting with the >> Anna Tesman. I >> Scott

005I say no >> and Trisha Kendall I. Oh I guess I guess technically your vote doesn't count and I said I had mentioned that to you before the meeting because you weren't in on the good practice. That was a practice round for Paul. Okay. Um >> nice job Paul. >> That's right. Okay. So, um I assume there's none, but is there any discussion now that the public hearing is closed on this item? All right, then we can move on to a vote on the item. Oh, um actually, are there any changes? I didn't ask, are there any changes in the um in the decision? Any alterations? I didn't have any besides adding those items which I have reminded Jasmine to put in. >> No changes. >> Okay. All right. I'll make a motion to accept

006the decision as is with the changes drafted and discussed today. >> Is there a second? >> Second that. >> All right. Then we'll have a roll call vote. >> I test I. >> Scapelier I >> and Trisha Kendall I. So that is approved. If I think Jasmine during the course of the meeting will print out. >> It's right here. So at the end of the meeting before you go I'll just have you sign it so we don't take time during the public hearing, but before you go, if you could just sign it. >> All right. So Paul can go rushing out at the end. The rest of us have to stay and sign. All right. Next. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >>

007Thanks for your patience on this. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next on our public hearing agenda is item B, 240 to 260 Pleasant Street. This is the Metro West Facilities LLC or the soccer fields. Um I think the board received the attached letter um asking for an extension to November 15th. No, sorry, November 13th. And just confirming with Jasmine, this is extending our calendar, not just continuing it. Right. >> Correct. Because they use the word extension. They're actually extending our deadline time to issue a decision. If they had issued just a continuence, we would have to keep that deadline in mind and say, you know, we're coming up on the deadline. We need an extension. But they're aware of that. So they granted us an extension of time. So we're not at any crunch

008line for time for their um to hear them. Again, I'm not sure, they're not positive if they're going to actually go for the variance before the ZBA or not. They're working on some calculations right now and then they'll make a decision, I believe, is where they are. >> Okay. Okay. I was going to say I thought somewhere in their letter they talked about um doing the a paved parking lot instead of the gravel parking lot and they were going through those. >> They were doing they're doing the calculations to see if they may not request the variance and then they'll just come with they'll submit plans with the new calcs and move forward without a variance. >> Okay. Okay. So, we're just kind of on hold until they figure out what they want to do

009with different things. So, I guess I I'll make a motion to accept the extension request for 240 260 Pleasant Street Metro West facilities until November 13th. >> Um, >> do we need a motion? >> Do they ask for the ex? >> There's an extension of the clock, but are we continuing to the 23rd or >> No, they want to wait until the 13th as well. They don't think they'll have their calculations done in time for the 23rd. >> So, the clock may need to go a lot further out than the 13th. They're just >> they'll need another extension then. >> Okay. >> So, we're continuing to the >> 13th of November granting the extension until then as well. >> Yes. >> And we'll get we'll reach out to them for another extension in between them.

010>> We need a motion on that. >> I think we I think you're combining them into two motions. I think is fine. >> Okay. So, the motion to continue and to accept the extension November get to second the practice. >> I second >> that you can do. >> So then we have a roll call vote >> Anna Tesmania I >> Scott Beltier I >> Montasino I >> and Trisha Kendall I. So that is continued until November 13th. All right, moving right along. We're already on the second page of our agenda um to the third public hearing on the list which is 30 Memorial Drive which is the YMCA. They have quite a team here today. Thank you for coming. Um we do have as you know since the last time you were here we have

011a new member of the bo boardino. So, he did watch the um the presentation of the last time where you you were here, but as that's been a while, I I know you have a full presentation for us tonight. Um it would be good to have that refresher, you know, as well. So, it's kind of a not quite a fresh start, but close to it. So, um with that, unless you have anything to add, Jasmine, they can just >> We're all set if you're ready. I don't know if you're giving the pres presentation or got to be collaborative. >> Okay, perfect. So, the presentation is up, but Zoom is up. If you want to share your screen so they can see where you're headed in the presentation, I've given you screen share capabilities, but the

012full presentation's the Zoom is up. You should just be able to click to Zoom and then share that screen where the presentation is. Perfect. There we go. Good enough. Good evening once again, Madam Chair, members of the board. Uh, for the record, attorney Matt Eckle with Flesher Tilton on behalf of the applicant, the YMCA. As mentioned, we have our full team here. We have Rick and Peter from the YMCA. We have Carrie from Scalora as well as excuse me, Lonnie from CBT, the project architects. We also, I believe I saw uh Andrew Platt as well as Tori uh online and maybe Dan as well from MDM. So hopefully we have our our full team ready and available for any questions you may have. As mentioned, this is our second meeting. However, our last meeting was

013back, I believe, end of July. So it's been quite a little bit of a layoff for us. So we're going to give you some updates on what we've been doing since. some updates on the project as a whole and kind of just walk through where we stand right now and what we're seeking from this board. Um, so we can actually I can control it. I'm going to skip ahead to the site plan just to give a brief overview manage the technology. So, what you're looking at now is one of our updated site plans, and I think Carrie and and some of the other team will go over this in greater detail as we move through the presentation, but uh just to highlight some key aspects of it. This cuts off the the property a little

014bit. You can see on the top of the page that continues further page north. Uh we just zoomed in a little bit, but overall the property is just over 12 acres. It's currently known as 30 Memorial Drive. Moving forward, it will be known as 31 and 33 Memorial Drive because of the orientation in the side of the street it's on and the fact that there are two primary buildings. So, each will have their their own proper address as we move forward. In terms of zoning, we're in the Rail Trail District and RTDC and RTD zoning district. We are proposing, as mentioned, two separate buildings. Uh the large rectangular shape kind of right down the middle is the membership building that's proposed to be just under 62,000 square feet. This is going to host the aquatic

015center, um some classrooms, basketball courts, gymnasiums, things of that nature. And then the rectangle that's perpendicular heading to page left is the early learning center. And this is proposed to enroll approximately 98 preschoolers and toddlers. Um overall the project now includes approximately 289 parking spaces. This is an increase from when we last met with you. That's based upon the um suggestion from peer review to stripe the portion of the uh paved area to the left. Uh we'll go over that in greater detail as well, but that was previously just snow and unassigned pavement. It's now striped for further parking. Um just jump back in the presentation. We'll walk through briefly where we've been since we last met with you. So, we did uh let the planning board know that we would be seeking approval from

016the zoning board for the size of the parking spaces. Uh the Ashlin bylaw requires a 9x20 parking space. That's just the definition of a parking space within the bylaw. However, that is a little bit outdated and a more typical parking space recognized throughout the Commonwealth now is 9 by18. And we were seeking that uh from the zoning board in the form of a variance because we thought that was the best way to maximize parking while minimizing impervious space and it leads to better storm water management. It's more environmentally friendly and provides more areas for landscaping. So, we were granted that variance from the zoning board of appeal. Um so, that portion of our permitting process is essentially closed. Uh we're also working with the conservation commission. Uh we were just there recently and are going

017back on October 20th. We've received peer review uh in the form of storm water drainage and site plan and we're incorporating all of those changes into the plans. We did submit an updated response letter to the peer review. Uh we also had our departmental technical review where we met with the police chief, fire chief, health department, DPW, members of the planning staff and took comments from them. Those have also been incorporated into our plans. Some of those changes include things like making sure that fire has a a dedicated turnaround to the rear of the the building that is adequate for what they need to ensure proper safety. Um, as a whole in terms of updates, and I'm going to invite Carrie up in a minute to walk through more of them in the site plan

018and then Lonnie to really go through the plans and renderings in greater detail. But we updated the design of the building. If you remember, we came in not quite with a blank slate the first time, uh, but kind of a a trim down version of what we hoped, but we are still working through some some value engineering as well as finalizing materials. So, we have some updated, uh, materiality to share with you, as well as a bunch of different renderings and views of what we anticipate the building will look like. Um, as mentioned, we also have the additional striped parking spaces. We have new snow storage areas that was also recommended as part of peer review. So, those are now shown in the plans. uh some updates to the crosswalks and clarifications or updates on

019the ADA spaces and walking paths. Uh we also have several updates to the grading and drainage and utility plans. A lot of those are more technical in terms of labeling and whatnot, but we have responded to peer review um and updated those. We are still waiting unfortunately for our last peer review relating to traffic. Um so we probably won't have too much to discuss regarding traffic tonight. We hope to get that uh review as soon as possible and certainly provide um timely responses and as mentioned we may have Dan from MDM if there are traffic specific questions but it may behoove us to hold off on that since we don't have the final peer review. Um with that that's kind of the very high level update of of where we've been and what we're trying

020to achieve at this point. So I'm going to pause and invite Carrie up and she can uh go over some more detailed updates to the plans. This is the revised. This is three. Okay. Um, very good. Carrie Dio, Scalora Consulting. We're the owner's project manager for the project. Um, let's see. I progress this. What is All right. So, Matt hit permitting updates comments. So, uh, you know, like was mentioned before, we haven't been here since July, but, um, when we were here in July, we had made these notes as to things that were looking for more detail, uh, questions from the planning board, things that had come up as, uh, unclear or needed more work or in many cases just needed more detail. So, um, one question was about connectivity to Memorial Drive within the

021greater context of the neighborhood. um how the community may, you know, short-term and possibly long-term access the site. Matt mentioned the emergency vehicle egress which we have um updated on the plans. There was a question about what uh regardless of the actual height of the building, what will the building height look like from the street? Because as you see on the plans, the front of the building, I guess Paul look at you, the front of the building is twotory, the back of the building is threetory, right? So the we did um you know have a our average height is fairly high but the visual is is a little bit uh lower. So we'll show that. Um we also have been doing quite a bit of work on the exterior of the building trying to find

022the right solution that we can um afford to build in a way that will have good longevity for the Y et etc. And we've been working through a lot of the uh sustainability items, many of which um are just good practice, many of which are part of the energy code, and many of which are uh setting the Y up for the future for what may come, you know, down the road, right? Passive passive strategies. Um let's so within the context of the neighborhood, uh we did do a zoom out and you'll see we tried to add some some labels to give context. Um, you know, again, the the project site is right along Memorial Drive, uh, diagonal from the middle school's backyard. Uh, it butts right up against the trolley book trail, and there are

023some, you know, long-term plans for some connectivity, uh, to the site, through the site, etc. Um, there was some conversation when we met last about the town of Ashland that is behind. Um you'll see where that note is that there there may be possibilities longer term, you know, through townland that that the trail system can be expanded. Um we do sit adjacent to the new the newer coming soon dog park and are down the street from the MBTA and the uh more recent housing uh development that has happened there. Um, you know, I know you are all very aware, but there the 40B that's proposed is across the street uh from us on the even side of the road. Um, and then we sit right next to the Dunkin Donuts. Uh, again, this is the

024slide Matt flipped up, but you know, how will people access this site? You know, most of the folks coming um as families will be coming via vehicle. uh you know uh seniors will be coming maybe be a shuttle bus um but there will also be pedestrian access right so uh really good access points one down near the Dunkin Donuts which will be the bulk of the access for the membership center and we have a separate access point on the left side uh primarily for easy access to the ELC so parents can come and go that way. The uh magenta colored arrows show what we expect to be uh pedestrian paths. The one on the left uh connects to the crossing that is uh existing right at the head uh trail head at Trolley Brook. And

025then the other one uh comes out right now. It comes out in the middle of our site which is right at the crest and you can see this in some of the future renderings. It's right at the crest of Memorial Drive there. So, you know, by design the safest spot to to cross folks or or to get people out onto the road. Um there has been discussion around connectivity to Dunkin Donuts and uh we've talked with Jasmine and Trisha and the planning board before about you know if that gets legs we are also open to uh working with the town to to enhance that connectivity. Um but in the short term we're just you know assuming we're going it alone. Um but but as long as we kind of get there uh before our site

026is built um we would be happy to expand those conversations. Yes. >> I'm sorry. Can you go back a page? What does it mean when it says low? >> Low. Where do you see low? >> The little dash. >> Say low. >> Oh, limit of work. Sorry. I was like, I didn't. Yes, that's the limit of work, right? >> I didn't know what that >> Yep. Yep. Exactly. Sorry about that. Okay. So, uh like like we said, we have a lot of architectural updates tonight. So, we really wanted to stay high level on the site because last time we did spend a lot of time on the site. Uh to recap, we have received uh peer review um from GCG on civil uh kind of general site, utilities, drainage, storm water uh etc. We did

027have that uh departmental review where we received some comments. Um, Jasmine was able to collect some comments from fire and police, etc. So, all of those have been pulled in in in cases where they required updates to the drawings, those have been made. In cases where they required uh just a cleanup of uh detailing that has been done and we did this week formally submit in writing uh written responses to all of those comments, highlights. Again, Matt mentioned most of this. We did uh increase the amount of space we have for snow storage and separated it into two areas. Um so that you know originally we were going to put it all along that that lefthand side of the ELC. There was a recommendation that we actually just go ahead and stripe that. So the

028areas that are highlighted are areas that from a landscaping perspective do not have plans for low um ground cover shrubbery and the trees are set back a little bit from the curb so that you can put snow there without you know putting the the plantings at risk. Uh we mentioned the striped spaces that we added. There was also a good uh suggestion um that you can see right here um adding a a striped crossing through the parking lot at ELC so that there's a a good safe spot for folks that are parking over there to get through and not have to cut, you know, through um especially think about parents with little kids and strollers and all that. Uh so we provided that. Um, we did also add this uh formalized truck turnaround in the

029rear of the building for the fire department to be able to get their truck down but also back up. And then um there were some uh there was some requests from actually from conservation and the storm water peer review to do some additional test pits at our subsurface drainage locations. um because of the results of those some of the dimensionality had um has changed um to those systems the systems in general are are the same but instead of being deep they're a little bit more shallow and therefore wider you know very good I'll going um all right I am going to now turn over unless there's other questions about the site work uh like Matt That said, um, when we do receive the traffic peer review, we will, um, you know, either respond in writing

030to that or if that requires, you know, someone to come and present again, we will we will do that. So, >> one question about the site, the you talked about the connection to Dunkin Donuts, which obviously kind of depends on Dunkin Donuts. Um, what about the connection to the trolley book trail? Are you connecting to the trolley book trail? Is that is there a path there? So there's a so the the work that is um in the rear of the building, the the lawn area has um has plans for a a connection that is not necessarily part of our first phase, but that is part of the there's a figure eight trail there. Um we are working um trying to uh procure funding so that we can make sure that's part of phase one, but

031that would be able to be connected to the trail. >> So So where the trail ends on Memorial Drive You don't end the trail and can go down into the YMCA. You're There's no path from the end of the trail at memorial. >> Well, there's a sidewalk. >> There is a sidewalk. >> Yep. And then you then the sidewalk our sidewalk. Um Can I go back up? Uh I think it's a little bit easier even to see here. Our this >> So the the trail head is right here. There's an existing sidewalk here. And then you can get right onto our sidewalk system here. go right up and then you could go right back down. >> So the the existing sidewalk is on your side of the street. >> Yeah, there is one. I believe

032there is one there or we have one shown on our drawing. Let me just look. >> Look, it's >> Yeah, I think we have one shown to but that's the intent to try tie a sidewalk on that side of the street. But I think that there's a bib there right already. Right. The crossing maybe dirt. Okay, we can look into that. it you can definitely get from the trail to the site on that without having to cross the road and cross back. That answer your question, >> right? I was and just we can talk about it later, but in talking about connectivity, I would want to assume that that's >> Yeah, >> that that's part of the first phase of the project is connecting to that trail. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Okay. >> Oh, it's

033actually Okay. >> Right. But like how do you get there? There is no there is no sidewalk on that side of like where the trail head is. There's like a little bit but there's nothing like down that side of the road. >> Right. So the trail head connects to the crosswalk, right? That's at Memorial. Is that how it >> Yeah. And then our our site will also connect to that crosswalk. >> Right. But I I don't think people are going to cross the road. And this is the same with Dunkin Donuts. I don't think they're going to cross the road, walk half the distance down to the middle of the parking lot and then cross back. I I I I'm really think they're going to >> But they they if they're going to the Y,

034there's a park there's a sidewalk that comes up this road right here that goes all the way in. >> Yes. So I think they're saying I think the problem is that you're saying that there is a sidewalk. It will be constructed from the end of the trolley book trail. Yes. But it's really hard to see on your drawings. Like on any of the drawings, it's really hard for us to find. >> Okay. >> So, I think it just be on one of the diagrams really I can zoom in. You can see it right here. Right. It's right on the plans. There's a crosswalk here to another sidewalk, a crosswalk here to the building uh aprons and that connects all throughout the site there. >> Five. >> Yeah. >> Right. But >> five foot wide. >>

035Okay. And then the other path that there's just no uh >> like what's existing there's no shading on it, you know, just make make it really really easy for us to see on some diagram. Color it gray or green or blue or something so we can see it. >> Okay. >> Just makes it easier. >> Gotcha. >> Thank you. >> Um Okay. >> I do have a follow-up question on the storm >> snow storage shed. >> Can you point that out? I think I know where it is, but I >> There's not a shed. What? What? Say that question. >> The snow storage. Yep. I can I just have to figure out how to zoom this back out. >> See where it's um Oh, it's a little delayed. It's coming. >> So, it's not you,

036Peter. I'm so sorry. >> There you go. See where it's highlighted in blue >> right >> along kind of along the whole Memorial Drive side. And there's a big area uh landscaped area in the far side of the parking lot >> on the left >> in the ELC. Yeah. Okay. >> Yep. And maybe this is a question from the other guys regarding the drainage once the snow melts. Where does that >> Yep. >> go. >> So it will it will drain to the storm drain. Um all the water that comes off of the parking lots does go into a subsurface detention system, you know, water quality units. It slows down the speed of the water, you know, etc., etc. So, >> and where is it going in terms of it going into wetlands? Is it

037going Usually it makes its way to the to the rear of the site and it goes in that way. And Andy, if I'm speaking out of turn, just butt in. >> You got it, Carrie. Thank you. >> Okay, great. >> I guess the other question, how do you in the winter, of course, you salt it, you sand it. Is that a concern going into any land out there? Well, a lot of um and correct me if I'm wrong here, but a lot of those issues are being looked at by the conservation commission who is in charge of all the storm water runoff. So, basically, we as a board we kind of um if if the conservation commission is happy with it, we're generally happy with it because they're going to be yeah very detailed about

038those things. So, it was a good question. >> Okay. And I just Madam Chair for you, I just have one comment. Our conservation agent, Becca Solomon, did send a an email um October 8th stating that the um straw and compost stocks were removed from the plan and silt fence was the only sedimentation control shown on the plan. Silt fence is solely sedimentation control and we do need a form of erosion control to be placed back on the plan. >> Yep. So, we responded to Becca yesterday and told her, "No problem. We'll put the bottles back on." >> Thank you. Sorry, just one more question. Sure. Um, can you do you have a >> can you show where the Dunkin Donuts parking lot is versus your property line? >> It might have been on that aerial

039view. I'm not sure. >> See if this has actually the building. Let me see. It's pretty close. >> I think you I really think that not having a sidewalk between that Dunkin Don's parking lot and your parking lot is a big miss because people are going to walk there anyway. Whether Even if there is no sidewalk that's on the Dunkin Donut side, they're going to walk that either in the street on the side, the when kids come from, they're not they're just not going to cross the street and take the path and walk over. I mean, maybe if there's snow or something, but I don't think they're going to be wandering around in the snow. But >> yeah, I I think I think um yeah, it's it's a valid point. I think the same thing.

040I think once we we can look at the architecture and I think we'll be circling back to that whole idea of connection which we're talking a lot about but it's hard to see it's still hard to see in the drawing about those connections. So let >> because there's a sidewalk in front of Dunkin Donuts. So if somebody's walking even that direction they're going to cut through the parking lot or what you know what I mean? I just don't think they're going to cross and cross. >> That's my impression. Maybe I'm wrong, but I mean, >> you know, we started with that. >> Yeah, we started and then went away from it because when it came up, we kind of realized we couldn't control what was happening at Dunkin Donuts, so we shouldn't encourage it. But,

041you know, this parking lot is a few years from being built and we have no problem shifting back to that original plan, I guess, is our message. Um, but we didn't want to get a project approved that if nothing happens outside of our vacuum, we've created a situation that is probably not ideal. So, um, you know, I guess just to put that on record that we're we're happy to to >> Again, that's why I was wondering how what the distance was of your line to their parking lot. >> It's pretty close. You can see then >> it wouldn't I don't think it'd be an issue if it's ft to get to pavement. It's, you know, it's a little bit, but um, >> you know, that's what we were talking. Does that actually just want to

042be a path through the woods, not a sidewalk? like what what is that? You know, does it make sense to just come up through or should we put an actual sidewalk along here? You know, again, either one is fine. >> Okay. >> Are there sidewalks on the driving lane on the entry lane? >> Uh on the um on the the west side. Yes. The first side. No, there were and we got rid of them because we realized we were providing a sidewalk to nothing. um because there's not a sidewalk on the Dunkin Donuts property at the roadside. So, we would have a stop and then there's a gap between there and where you can the the next sidewalk is at the crosswalk at the end of the street or at the intersection, I mean. Yeah.

043Yeah. Nothing. Exactly. Great. Uh, okay. Um, I'm going to zoom back out and then turn things over to Lonnie for what you really want to hear about today. Um, and I do apologize this, um, I think this may the old version, but um, this because this graphic is cut off, but that's okay. But that's all right. He knows it, right? Okay, thank you. >> Y >> good evening everyone the board. So I'm Lonnie Ash with CBT and we the architects on the project. So as was mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, a lot of these slides some of you have seen before, but I'll go through the them relatively quickly until we get to the updated design and then we'll spend some time on the design part of things. So where we started was

044working with the Y on really developing the principles of what the Y was and how to translate those into the into the building. So this diagram is showing those guiding principles on the left, what the impact would be of the Y and how we translated those to the architectural kind of concept or the principles that we would use towards the design. Some of those being the sustainable part of things, flexible spaces, phasing as we talk about the VE later, and the member experience. One of the main things that the site offers us is really the ability to connect to nature because it's really a wooded large site. And that was one of the important things that we wanted to embrace as we develop the design as well as the connection within the building of the

045people that are using the the facility and the the YMCA. As I mentioned, the the site itself, it's has some major topographical features, and we really wanted to start with a with an eye towards economics, with an eye towards conservation of how can we put a building onto the site that would limit the amount of earth moving that we would have to do, knowing that we still have to remove a certain amount of trees. So, we identified where those kind of higher ground points were. There was three major ones that we identified closer to Memorial Drive and that's how we decided that we wanted to really keep the building close to the Memorial Drive, not pushing deeper into the site to take advantage of the kind of the section which we'll see in another slide

046of not having to remove a lot of like clear cut the soil but also being able to take advantage of having that contrast between what's happening at Memorial Drive as people enter the parking lot once they get to the building and then beyond the building. It's all natural. So this is the section concept that we started on the top the parking lot. Memorial Drive is on the left hand side. The north side of the site and the fields are on the right hand side. On the parking lot close to the Memorial Drive, it is a twotory building. We are partially bur burying the building. So it's three stories on the north side. On the bottom section, we're looking from Memorial Drive towards the building. Just to show you that on the right hand side, there's

047the pool. On the lower level, the gym and potential gym is expansion as well as the ELC is on the left hand side. And this was part of our strategy of limiting the amount of earth moving because that is a big cost driver as well as it by limiting the amount of earth we're moving. We tried to control how how much of the the tree canopy we would be removing. And you saw in the site plan the tree border which we might have another site plan coming up but really only removing that middle portion where the building and parking lot going to be located. This is just a basic concept diagram explaining how the simple bar of the building. There are, you know, thoughts about breaking up the facade by having ins and outs, but

048we really also wanted to think about the economy of what that would mean as far as linear square footage of facade, one of the most expensive parts of the building. So, we did settle on kind of a really simple bar for both the ELC as well as the membership building. and we'll see that in some of the upcoming renderings with that bar and the orientation towards Memorial Drive. It really set us up to think about where those views were going to be towards the north and strategizing about the solar orientation and the amount of glass. So, you'll see in the renderings that we did focus on putting more glass on the north side, limiting the amount of glass on the south side. I know there were previous comments about making it feel more open. And

049you'll see in some of the updates that we did add a little bit more glass to make the entrance experience and being able to peek into some of the program, I guess, an improved experience. But again, we still wanted to limit the amount of solar exposure and potential glare and negative impact on the program. So, we do have another site plan. Um, you can see the darker trees on the outside are the existing trees that we maintain to keep while clearing as little as possible. Even though it is a large building, large parking lot, we really were mindful about how much tree clearing we would need to do. This is really highlighting the potential for connecting the programs of the Y to the natural environment on the site. It's really exciting as we were talking

050with Rick and his team about the opportunity that the site offers for the for the community as well as the the users on making that connection through the programming value engineering everyone's favorite topic. So since the last time we were here we have been spending a lot of time with value engineering and thinking about how we could reduce the cost of that initial design. We did focus on the landscaping. Um simple things like granite curbs versus Cape Cod BMS. We did solar canopies. It's sort of a sustainability item. On the value engineering side, we did do kind of life cycle analysis to see how much of the operational costs it would offset with solar canopies on the roof as well as on the parking lot. We're still in the early stages of that, but we

051are anticipating that it is going to produce a large portion of what the building is using as far as electricity. So, that's pretty exciting. Reducing the building mass. At one point, we did have popups on the north side. We did redu we did simplify that and reduce those. So, it did uh reduce the amount of facade. And then I mentioned that what we did as far as the thick glazing. We did want to make sure that the entrance was more pronounced and more visible, but we were still mindful of the amount of glazing building materiality. We are still using masonry and aluminum panel one because ma the aluminum panel or the metal brain screen is a pretty simple system. Brick masonry is also very simple and common. Those also relate to bit of a delay.

052Those also relate to as we were thinking about how the building fits into the the context of Ashlin and the the wider community masonry obviously a very common material aluminum panel at least on newer buildings. But when we were looking at the aluminum panel, actually before I get to that, um, this is from the Ashlin design guidelines. Again, looking at how to respect the context while also making sure that we were doing something that was inspiring and fresh and new and really represented what the what the Y is trying to represent. Okay, back to the metal panel. So looking at the metal panel and reviewing what the New England details in this new design, we really focus in on the the idea of the shingle and not necessarily a a literal representation of the shingle,

053even though you see that, but playing with the scale to make it a little bit oversized and not having it be, you know, the small shingles that you see, but still having at least a a nod to some of the design details that are common in the area. With that shingle, we really wanted to focus on what the the metal was doing. And in some of the renderings, the metal was hard to hard to see what it it actually was because it was blending in with the sky. And that's a little bit intentional because we wanted the metal to have this light, not mirror like finish, but reflective. So during the day and throughout the seasons, it will be reflecting the surroundings because of the the lightness and the sheen of it. And these examples

054are again not literal examples but more of the inspiration of the type of finishes that we would be exploring. That being said, these these diagrams are showing the program. So with Memorial Drive on the bottom left hand side on the parking lot, the entry is centralized walking into a lobby. the main gym on the west side closer to the early learning center with the pool, wellness, and studios on the east side of the building. Again focusing on as we were designing and realize and focusing on the program really fine-tuning where the the glazing the windows the views that connection to nature would occur on the outside which you'll see in the some of the upcoming slides as well as the connection of the program between each other. So, this is an updated view from the

055as you're approaching the site from the east entry entering the parking lot. The metal panel shingle that I mentioned is on that top bar of the building with the masonry on the bottom bar. On the east and west sides of the building, you can see the east building. That's all masonry. There are portions of glass on the south side but minimized compared to the north side of the building is here on the north side. We really wanted to focus on introducing the glazing where the program would have would benefit from it. So as well as also being a little bit playful. So we have the larger piece of the glass at the larger the wellness center the studios. We have smaller pieces interspersed here or there for some of the other program to not have

056it be super linear or super traditional have a little bit of placefulness to it on this north side as well as having that connection to nature from the program. This is on the parking lot side, Memorial Drive. This is looking straight on into the entry. So that central sidewalk here looks a little bit like a street but it's a a walking path would lead you straight into the main entry of the building which is s signified by the Y logo in this image. There's also graphics on the right hand lower side on the CMU really nodding to team Hoy who is who is the name behind this Y and having that glass at the entry to make sure that it's really obvious where the entry is happening. the building itself, it does have a kind

057of an overlap where that left volume is overlapping a little bit on the right side of the of the building. This was something that we've carried through even since the last building. Previously, that right or that left hand side was CMU, which we are still exploring during the VE process, but having that overlap is is kind of what we're doing to break up the mass while still keeping that simple rectangle throughout the entire. And then we did do a few renderings to show the different times a day to show that that metal panel is really having an effect on how the building is perceived as the sun hits it in different ways. And the same with this view. This is a dawn view, noon, nighttime. The same on the the north side. There's the different

058times of day. Yes. >> Is Is the metal shiny? Like it's a southside. Is there going to be a lot of like sun bouncing off of that? >> We don't want it to be like mirror shiny. We really want it to have like a dull reflective like a brushed aluminum or a brushed metal finish. So it's really reflecting the the colors more than like the like a shiny stainless steel. >> Can I ask about the north side? Um just a quick question on the on these renderings. I'm assuming the trees in the front and the landscape is intentional as sort of what you're envisioning. The number of trees on both sides, the north side and the front side. In the renderings, the numbers are probably not as accurate as the the plans, the site plans.

059>> So, I can I can save my trees question until later if it's easier. >> Sure. >> We're going to get to the >> for example, in this view, there's actually would be probably trees in front of it, but we turned those off just so you could see the building. >> That's helpful. Well, I was going to say if we can have a bit more more shade and trees, that would be my preference, but we we'll come back to it. >> I think we're close to the end. So, I actually >> Yeah, we can come back to it on the site plan. It's easier to see exactly where the the trees are. And then we did add the aerials again, the trees to to align as closely as the rendering would to the the site

060plan. give you a sense of what the that would look like. Same on this. One of the questions last time is what the elevation would look like from Memorial Drive. So on the top elevation, we turned the trees off so you could see exactly what the building would look like. The Dunkin Donuts is on the right hand side of the image, the small little building there. just to show you that from from this side, the twostory building is only about 34 feet tall. And then the bottom image turning the trees on because from Memorial Drive, it really is a screened facade. You're not going to see much from the street itself until you're on on the site. >> I think that's my last >> Bonnie question on the Yes. >> Are you putting mature trees

061or just new trees and then obviously they grow? >> They will be not mature. And Andy, you can probably comment on that the best, but I'm assuming that they're relatively low caliber inches for the new trees. >> Correct. Yeah, there they'll be two and a half to three inch caliper when planted. >> Okay. Then I had a follow on with the solar. >> Yes. Yes. >> That you were talking about the solar canopies. >> What provisions are you making for those clients that have EVs? Is there anything there for them in the parking? >> Yep. So 10% of our parking spaces will be EV ready to meet energy code. So with our 289, that's 28. Well, I can't do public math, but 10% of the parking spaces. 28. Yeah. 28. Those will have some charging

062mechanism there. >> They'll be EV ready. So they'll be the capability will be there for future chargers. So at some point and it doesn't need to be today's presentation. I I I would love to better understand um because it is a very wooded site and I know we're taking down quite a quite a bit of trees. Um the memo from March from Arbor A Tree Care is a bit confusing as far as kind of the interpretation of that second page of what's coming down versus what's remaining. I personally not today. >> I don't know if if the presentation is ready for it, but I would love to have an analysis of like, okay, these are the trees we're taking down. Here's a visual of what we're taking down, and here's a visual of what we

063we are going to retain. Here's what we're planting. That kind of analysis I think would be very helpful because it is a very wooded site. I think the community is willing to make that sacrifice for the community center that we're building. But I think it would be very important for the public and for for us to really analyze and understand current reality, what's coming down, what's left, what's going up, mature, not mature, etc. because obviously 400 some trees with 14 diameter or greater is a lot of really mature trees coming down and I do believe our community is very concerned about that. Um, so for the sake of transparency at the right time, I think that kind of analysis rather than just like the beauty of what we're seeing, actual data point of like here's

064what this little actually means >> and here's what we're building or growing instead >> would be wonderful for the right time. All right. Thank you. Are are you just opening up for questions or >> Okay. >> Yeah. Open season. That concludes the presentation. So, anything on architecture? Again, Andy's on for for drainage and site work. So, any questions? We're happy to entertain. Thank you. >> All right. So, um members of the board, I'm just going to open it up so that don't wait for me. If you have a question, we can throw it out there and the appropriate person whether in person or online can can step in to answer answer questions. So, it's good to be at this point where we can start actually doing this. And with time and we have time tonight

065because >> I would say other than the trees thing the right time. I did want to hear a little bit more about the special permit to reduce uh rare yard landscape buffer at the right time to better understand that what the special permit is seeking for that and why. >> Yeah, I think we should go through that actually. The um the two there's a waiver being asked for height. Is it still valid because you said the height came down a little bit and then there's a waiver in the back for >> right is that the corner where the >> Yeah. Let's talk about those things first. >> Okay. The the height is is pretty easy to explain. Um you're allowed up to 30 feet by right. You can go up to 50 feet with a

066special permit through this board. Obviously, as um as Lonnie explained, now our overall height and the height from the street is in that range, ranging between, I believe, low low 30s to to mid-40s. So, it is eligible for that uh special permit. We don't need a variance because it doesn't go over 50 ft. So, that relates to the height. In terms of the rear yard buffer, uh just to give a little background, this is entirely based on the the shape of the site. So, it really just occurs in that kind of back right corner. >> Yeah. >> Let's see. Let's see if we can move it up right about there. >> Yeah. >> Uh oh, and now it went away. So, but essentially where the um where my cursor is right in this area because

067of the way that the property line significantly jogs in from right to left and then takes off to the north again. Uh that's kind of our pinch point. So, we do need a special permit. You're supposed to have a 50 foot uh wooded or landscaped area there between the property line. So, we're seeking about 20 feet there because that pinches in. So far our justification is that that's wetland really non-usable area anyways. The you know the guiding principle for it being in the code is to try to preserve uh you know the property lines for neighbors and abuing buildings. They want to keep a little bit uh wider of a distance on the setbacks. Uh but this is a very unique uniquely shaped lot and we also have the advantage I guess you could say

068of having it be notusable area anyway. So, we're not really infringing on anyone's existing buildings or possible developable area in the future. So, those are the two special permits we're seeking. >> So, I think this relates a little bit to my first question or comment earlier where I think it would be really helpful to see the whole site, all of the wood that we're kind of bringing down, where we're building those buffers, and why, so that we as a board can have a conversation with applicant about where can we allow for those special permit flexibility and where can we squeeze in a few more trees to make up for the loss of a buffer possibly in one place that we gain somewhere else. But we can't really have that conversation without understanding the entire site

069and where the trees are that are coming down and why they're coming down. I think there's a lot of kind of conflicting interest. Obviously, the community loves the idea of fields. Um, and who does not love a nice lawn, right? Um, but if we're going to kind of be flexible with a buffer, maybe we can find a different way to look at a lawn. Maybe we can leave a few trees in other places. Maybe we can find some balance and compromise. Um, little flexibility here, a little bit more trees there. But it's hard to have that conversation without really knowing what you're bringing down and how. Um, so I kind of want to have that more in a more open way if possible before we allow a special permit on the buffer. >> That makes

070sense. Thank you. >> I I assume just a just a comment on that. Um I assume that um the way the site is being graded and used that and and changed that there probably and correct me if I'm wrong there probably isn't a lot of opportunity to save trees in the middle like if there was a specimen tree in there because because the grade is changing so much the tree would just be in a wrong the wrong plane. Is that right? And I also think and I'm from going up there um not only on our site visit that time but also other times and knowing other sites like this that um the trees while they may be a big caliber um or bigger aren't what I would call a specimen tree. They're they've never been

071allowed to develop like if you go to Cushing, you know, park and every tree there is like a specimen tree, right? They're all just beautiful and trees in natural areas like this really aren't they aren't like that. They kind of are lacking. I mean, from what I went up there looking at trees, this is when we were doing the tree bylaw. I went up into that onto that site looking at trees. And so I guess in relationship to Anna's question, I'm wondering about then the trees that once the site is put back in, are we really looking at these areas as potential ways to grow those specimen trees? Kind of like Cushing um where the tree really can have become these beautiful trees. Um, so I guess I guess more information from um the landscape

072architect about about the the vision the vision for that I guess um is my question. to know what happens down >> just what is the use of the trees that we're bringing down if any of them are being used for the construction or how they're utilized since they're >> yeah uh we had explored some opportunities um as you can expect very pricey to mill he bring back so not off the table. Um but also um we don't we're not ready to commit to anything quite yet until we actually know what the opportunities are, but it's definitely on our radar. >> And is this something that the town partnership has been discussed as far as town using it in some way? >> Has not been discussed with the town. >> Okay. Typically, um, what I've seen,

073and this may be different, but we would just need to know this, that, you know, if a contractor is coming in to clear, then they will be selling that to a lumber yard to be, you know, they're not just chipping it and throwing it away, right? So, we would just need to understand that because it will have a financial impact on the on the project. So is the I guess I don't know the financial piece of that whether that's town town transaction or a YMCA. >> I don't not to speak for the town but I don't think we have an interest in purchasing lumber from the site. We would have as a town we we have no purpose for that. We're not in the business of construction ourselves. We wouldn't be purchasing lumber >> Valentine's

074estate arguably >> but that all that has to be done through procurement. We can't just >> Sure. Right. Which is why I brought it up to kind of see if the discussions had happened. So, it sounds like they had not. >> No. >> Any um any other questions from the board? Obviously, there should be probably tons. >> All right. >> I I thought I know there's a um a proposal that came in front of the CPC um for that back portion. And I thought you guys might have covered a little bit of that today um since it'll be going to a town meeting, but I didn't know if that was still on. >> Yeah. >> Thoughts or whatever. >> Yeah, I mean that's a good point. Um you know, so right now, let me just

075get to the overall site plan >> because I'm really excited about it. So like I was >> Yeah, for sure. So, right now the first phase of the the project is really to get the ELC going and then start getting the membership out of out of the ground. If if the town um CPC is is willing to contribute, then that pushes th those that that backyard um up the the list, right? Um otherwise, we would envision it as a future phase, you know, for the Y as they continue to build out this master plan. So that's really the reality of it is we would love to do it immediately if the town has an opportunity to help us with that. >> Great. >> Yeah, it's it's coming in front of the town um in our

076town meeting in November. So it was uh 1.2 million something like that. Uh >> we'll call it 1.2. Um >> we'll take the 1.2 to to help um allow for the um the buildout of that back area faster. >> Um and I think there's a couple of really cool benefits that come from the town helping >> with this one. It we kind of get access to it a little bit easier, which would be a big, you know, because it has to have public access to it. So, it kind of helps us stake that claim like, hey, we can use these for some some things. Um, but also I think it pulls it forward timelinewise like to these this part of the project could happen sooner. Um, and also it's I think it also helps with

077the go forward, right? Like the says, hey, the town's behind this. They're, you know, they're putting some money into this, which I think will help other donations come in, which I think could help a larger vision for the project happen quicker instead of it having to be peacemail because from my understanding, you have funding for the ELC, you have funding for bits and pieces of it, but we really want to go like, hey, let's do the whole thing, right? If we want the the faster we want it, the faster it gets finished, the faster those trees that they plant get matured, right? So then like it speeds that whole timeline piece up which I think is powerful and I think it'd be really awesome. I'm excited that it's coming to the town for that. Um

078I really hope the presentation knocks it out of the you know knocks it out of the park. Um opportunities not just for because I think a lot of people think of fields and they think of um youth but it's also like the accessible trails which is >> can be for the whole town in total. and you you mentioned Cushion Park and in my head that's what this helps lead that towards um in a lot quicker pace. So I'm really excited that um you're presenting and going forward with that and I think it's an awesome opportunity for Ashland to be like hey we support this and this is how because there is a lot of worry about the trees coming down and stuff of that nature but like if >> they're going to they're going to

079slope out the back but they may not develop it. Right. Right. So, the faster way to get it trees is let's get it developed. Right. And it's and it's to put in that landscaping and the cool things for like um there's like a outdoor like the the nature's classroom um a viewing slope. I know there was some other conversation about u yeah. So, like, you know, I'm thinking of other things that could happen that we could be used in town that people might be looking for space. They will get access to it because of this with the Y um getting the funding from CPC. They have to open it up a lot more to the public. So, >> agree. >> Um >> big win. I think it's going to be awesome. Um so, >> make

080sure you all vote it to town. >> Thanks, Scott, for mentioning that. And I also just want to make sure people are clear that there are rectangles on this field that show sizes, but we're not planning even in our ideal world and it to build regulation fields like for competition, right? It it's really in what did you call it? Nature's edge. >> Yeah. So this idea of like the Y kind of spilling into the woods, right? um big open play areas, trees that you can sit under and and you know have a picnic or you know these little you know uh vignettes around you know maybe there's some you know places for kids to play and then throughout the whole system there's that figure eight where it's fully accessible and anybody can kind of come

081and go um from that space which is awesome. I assume that the open areas are similar to the YMCA Huffington where it just kind of they do kind it's a field and it kind of bleeds into the trees and it's it's not like a >> a sports stadium. >> Yeah, exactly. I just this this site is this site picture is a little misleading because it looks like oh there's a soccer field and there's a little kid soccer field, but it's really just more for us to visually be able to say like how big are those spaces and what what could you use them for? Um you know of all these different things. And there's no plans for evening use of these fields. >> Not at this time. No lights or no. Um just to go

082back to the waiverss and you know for one thing for that that pinch point there which is very clear on on this diagram of this other property kind of >> um and I know this this obviously isn't your property but whatever data you can get um I know there's a lot available online um just about uh that this is a low point these are wetlands um to diagram that out a little bit >> better for the board. I mean, I know I can Google it and I can see that it's a wetland, but we're going to need to know a little bit more about >> Yeah, we on our site plan and I think next time we'll just focus on, you know, just really talking about landscaping and and traffic probably, but uh the wetlands

083are delineated um on you can see them exactly. So, it's just not really visible on this plan, but >> yeah. So, just it just like it's not just a number. Hey, it the bylaw says this and we're asking for this. It's us wanting to know, well, what is that piece of land? How does it connect? What's on it now? Who owns it? >> Yeah. like what what you know why would we make that decision of of butdding up to that property so that we have a a a rationale that we go through to see if to see if that seems an um an appropriate uh thing to do for a neighboring property >> and and when you say it's wetlands you're not >> taking like you're not building on wetlands it's just what you're saying

084is on the other side of that >> is not usable. So just let's make sure that's clear because when you're like, "Oh, it's just wetlands." Like people think, "Oh, you're destroying wetland." No, no, >> no. We're at the top of the hill. The wetlands are at the bottom of the hill. So it's really a tough it would be a tough angle to build or use it for anything. Yes. Totally cool. I just want to use the usable land that >> is on that side that's on the neighbor's property. The neighbor would have to go through the wetlands to get to it, right? So yeah, we can that's an easy we can zoom in and make that very clear. So, and are there um are there any setbacks then on the neighboring land that you're too

085close to? >> Not building. >> Yeah, not building setbacks, just the landscape buffer. >> Okay. So, the 100 set foot setback or anything like that to >> Yeah. Whatever that that I mean that that pinch point is a pinch point for all of those setbacks. But yes, that we we meet the requirements on the building, but then there is a um it's also a little funky because it's like side side setbacks versus front setbacks and and this is kind of a little bit of both, right? So um so yeah, the landscape buffer of 50 feet can't quite fit in in that little sliver. >> Okay. So the the setbacks from the wetland and south, the 50 foot setback, the 100 foot setback that you're you're >> I think you can see these are the lines

086here. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Yep, I see him. >> Yeah. >> And then the height, we we kind of skimmed over that the the height on the elevation you said was about 34 and a half feet on from the front side and then on the back side obviously it gets steeper. >> So um I think somewhere um in the I think somewhere in GCG's report they were looking for what the mean what the mean height is. is I mean the 34 feet is I mean 35 ft is pretty typical residential maximum height or for a two and a half story house. Um so um that seems obviously very doable to me in this in this area. So understanding what that mean is and really that the front facade is at the it sounded almost like

087it's still flu like you're not quite sure it's still fluctuating. >> Yeah, I think we're we're dialing in now. If you remember, uh, before we had a big popped roof on the back that kind of pushed, you know, it gave us more access to the nature views, but it pushed all the mechanical stuff forward on the roof. So, we had parapit walls and all that. So, because we were we got rid of that and we kind of were able to reduce all of those heights, but we're still above the the bylaw written, right? But, right, >> but well below that 50 foot um right >> special permit. Yeah. >> Okay. One small point of clarification as well just uh to better illustrate the rear yard requirement is 30 feet. We actually exceed 30 feet. I

088think we're about 32 feet, but the buffer itself is the 20 ft. So the building is 10 12 feet further than the where the buffer stops. So if you look up at the plan, you can kind of see how there's that small 20 foot buffer where the pinch point is and then there's that kind of, you know, walkway around there and then the building step back further. So, just to better illustrate, we're actually over 30 feet away from the the property line. It's just the landscape buffer is a little bit smaller than that because it doesn't come all the way up to >> Oh, okay. Okay. All right. So, you make the setback. It's just the is this the buffer that you're >> correct. Okay. Okay. Um, and there was a comment um, in the

089GCG report about a retaining wall. I think they said it was an 11 and 1/2 ft retaining wall. Where's that at? >> Yeah. So, it's along um, there's a couple spots. Um, I believe the one they were referring to is is here uh, on the left hand side of the ELC. We're really trying to stay out of the buffer there. And I think the comment from GCG is just that anything over four feet needs a building permit. That go be part of your building permit. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Understood. >> I'm sorry. So the parking lot is going to have 11 foot retaining wall like off the behind it >> behind it. So kind of um let me see if I can get back to the see the grading. If we tried to taper it,

090we started getting really uncomfortably close to um the buffers or the yeah the wetland buffer. So, right in this, see this corner here? And I think there's also one here uh to do the same thing. Keep it off the property line, but also keep it out of the wetland area. >> And and again, the the comment from GCG was just to acknowledge that if it's over four feet, you have to have a structural engineer design it. You have to get it under your building permit. All of those things, which is >> what type of fencing will be on top of that? Uh we haven't necessarily selected but probably some type of you know vinyl coated chain link or something. >> Imagine a lot of kids running around there. >> Yeah. Hopefully we keep them away

091from the periphery. But yeah, there will be I mean you have by safety uh code code requirements you have to have a barrier. >> Thank you. >> Well, it's almost because also I think that the trolley book trail kind of hugs that property line, doesn't it? And so there's a short distance between that trail going through the trees to get to the YMCA. And then there's this wall. So >> yeah, there's also this is also part of that. You can see here I think this is where the um the easement that Peter mentioned for the trolley brook. It it just keeps it really tight on that property line. So we just said we'll just build it up vertically and stay out of out of >> Yeah. It's just more a matter to me about um

092like the It's all going back to that connectivity, right? And the and whether it's uh intended or not because whether it's intended or not is the busier that path gets, the more kids are going to shoot through those woods to get to I mean I would right when you're a kid instead of going all nicely and politely all the way around. And so how are all of those things thought about in advance for for safety purposes and for and to acknowledge as you were saying that if they're going to cross through the Dunkin Donuts area anyway? I mean I'm going to do that, right? If I was at Dunkin Donuts, I'm not crossing the street and recrossing. No one's going to do that. I think is like your point. So how do we just say

093that that's the case and and and understand connectivity from that perspective, right? If I'm if I'm not wrong, in that nature's edge piece, the connectivity to this trail is also going to happen in the back also. >> I think that the >> that's the vision that's not part of the nature, >> but that's the vision is like out in that world. There's also going to be connectivity in the back, not just through the front. >> Correct. It gets a little complicated out back because I think there's a there would need to be a bridge and that bridge would have to be outside of our property. So there would have to be some amount of collaboration with the town to get get there. Um but the idea we did do the grades on our side so

094that if we ever get there that you can still connect to Trolley Brook and make it accessible. That makes sense, right? It doesn't it'll just drop off or something. >> So is a um is a I don't have the bylaws in front of me. Is a loading area required or loading dock required for a project like this? Is that a waiver that's needed? I don't I don't remember in our bylaw. Well, I have to go back and look or it's calling it's calling out sections of um 5.2.1 and 5.2.6. And so it mentions a a loading area. Um, and I just don't remember in our bylaws if a loading dock is required and if therefore a waiver from that bylaw from that requirement is needed. >> I don't confirm that but not that I recall.

095There's not a loading dock required. They just have to have off streetet loading which is obviously provided but I won't confirm that. >> I don't remember how it's worded. So because we have we have given that waiver before you know for not needing a a loading dock for various various buildings. Um, so there's a comment about um this and I'm just going to read The YMCA Boulders's response, there's no feasible way to provide a slope compliant path at the west driveway without providing either an extremely winding path or providing ramp switchbacks. Our understanding is that ADA guidelines require one accessible route from the street to the site and the center sidewalk route provides the ADA accessible path. Can you just explain? >> So this same sidewalk that we were talking about here that comes up

096I don't know why this Um, how do I get Okay, that sidewalk that comes up that left hand side of the um the street at the ELC entrance is not ADA compliant. >> Okay. So, we're going from the street, we're going down into the site. >> You're going up the hill into the site. >> Up the hill into the site. >> Yep. >> And it's too steep there. And that's that's what they're saying. You could make it accessible, but it would be, you know, like a zigzag. So, if you are, you know, the the accessible route would be through, you know, off of the sidewalk on the other side of the road into our main entryway. Um because that's where the grades work to get you in there on a flat surface. >> What about

097on the other side? Like I'm thinking, okay, when it's um you know, when um there are events at the Y Hopington YMCA at night, outside events, right? So, is there is there a path? Um, say the building isn't open. Is is there a path? >> Well, the I think if the building is not open, there should not be necessarily not be people in the back of the building. We'll just start there, right? The hours of operation. I think that would be a >> Well, I just remember I mean there's out I don't remember if the buildings are open during the outdoor events at the Hopkins YMCA, right? There's outdoor events. >> Yeah. Yeah. banana Olympics. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, the the best way if you were if you needed accessibility, the the fastest, easiest

098way is to come in through the front door, go down the elevator, and go right out outside. That is the the best and uh quickest route because we drop off so extremely, right? Um and then what we've done is you know again per code requires you know an accessible route to the street which we have provided. Um and then we've just tried to make everything else as accessible as possible um just within within the realm of the uh grade drop off in the in the rear. >> Does the road >> sorry does does the road that connects the parking lot next to the ELC down to the back does that accessible? Right. So this >> I'm not sure if it's ADA accessible. It's accessible, you know, per uh D or DPW like uh roadway regulations

099for slopes. Yeah. >> But I'm not sure, you know, ADA accessible is, you know, 20 ft level landing, 20 ft level landing, all that. That is not designed into that road. >> Okay. >> That that's ex that's that's expected to be a, you know, really like a just an access road, service road. question about that because this did come up at the CPC. Are you are there ballards or anything in front of that access road going into the back? >> Yeah. >> And then the the thought was >> um because there's a lot of ebikes around town and what we were hoping wasn't going to happen is you get access to this cool all-terrain area in the back with their ebikes and people riding through there. Um, so we didn't know if there was going

100to be some sort of >> So we had we had put a gate there to keep the ve vehicular traffic out, you know, so that the fire department could get through, but um I I mean I guess if you had an ebike, you could probably ride around it. So I'm not sure the um you know to what extent we would want to try to keep folks off. I don't know what they what folks do. What do you do on the trails? You just don't allow them. is that I I don't know what that >> Well, they're just kind of all over the town right now. Yeah, they're driving >> for Yeah, my town, too. So, yeah, >> like the fields and stuff like that, but >> yeah, >> that question is coming up everywhere, I

101guess, to do with the ebikes, >> the new the new uh epidemic of motorized bicycles. >> So, a question about handicap parking. I have seen a number of spots. How many are you providing? >> Going to test me. Like I said, I don't play I'm not a civil engineer. I just play one on public access television. Um so there are access to um uh handicap spots in both in the both front entries. Right. So, there's a a two spaces at the early learning center and then looks like 246 at the front door of the um of the membership which are all mandated by, you know, code code calculations and such. >> Is the two for the ELC >> and I don't know that's why I'm asking you is that appropriate for the number that's required

102by the code? >> Yep. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. It's all a calculation and you have to have them so that you can you see here like you could have a a van you could pull in one way or you could back in and then there's a loading zone in between. Yeah. >> Yeah. I do remember reading you've taken some provisions for the ballards to not be in those spaces. >> Uh yeah, in terms of like allowing Yeah. So the way it would work is you load and then then there's a flush curb right there at the front of that walkway. Um, yeah. No, no, uh, obstacles there. >> So, while we're at this image, can we just look at this corner again? I >> think so. >> There's a sidewalk right there. Like as you

103come to the end of it, it's like a >> This is all sidewalk, would you say? >> Yeah. Yeah. And it and it has the crosswalk that goes across to the main thing and they're going to connect >> which is right there. >> Yeah. And then they're going to connect >> their other sidewalk here which is >> Okay. So it's like going from a 10ft sidewalk to a five foot sidewalk. >> Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. We'll tee off the side of it. And >> I don't think it's I don't think it's 10 feet wide, but it's >> I was just looking at what it looks like. I you know from just from the drawing there if if there's is five it looks like the other one is about 10 but you know maybe it's

104not >> I hate to go back to the question I had earlier but about the site being ready for EVs is that already planned out >> so we haven't so so to be clear The code requires a certain percentage of spots to be EV ready, right? Which means we have to have conduit in the ground. We have to be ready to put them in, right? Um, it does not require that you actually install the chargers. That's not to say that the Y is not interested in doing that. We haven't gotten that far yet. Um, but we will make sure we have those conduits in so that they are ready. What we're trying to balance, and some of this may end up being, you know, kind of a study of membership, is if you put them

105in right up front and then you make it so that people who don't have EV cars can not park there, then you actually start eating up your prime real estate and, you know, kind of penalizing the rest of the site. So, sometimes I see that um my clients will wait and see, you know, how many of our folks are bringing EV cars, how many should we put in, and then you go down the road of getting them getting them installed. um etc. >> Right. Because I think in town we don't have a lot of EV charging. We have the middle school >> in here. >> I don't have so I don't know. >> I mean I don't have an EV but I'm just you know have to think about what the future might be. So

106if >> but where are the conduits going? >> So um I don't recall where we landed. Uh Andy, do you recall I we don't have this on this drawing. Do you recall where we landed? I think uh is that that rectangle along? Yeah, see the rectangle right here. This would be somewhere in this region would be so they'll be conduit to this area. Um that potentially you could line them all up. >> It says right here ready. >> Exactly. Yeah, >> they might be. >> I think there's also some at the top left there. >> Yeah. Yep. >> What's considered the future expansion that >> So that we don't know yet. Could be gymnasium space, could be um studio spaces. Um it's >> so is it just that block right there? >> Yep. Just not

107part of this initial, you know, not what we would call phase one, phase two, phase. is just kind of like if there was 30 years down the road a desire that that would be a kind of building spot that we could add square footage to the Y. >> So is the the plan right now is though is to build both the early learning center and the YMCA. It's just not the expansion. Is that that okay? >> Yeah. as part of so we wanted to master plan the whole site to kind of see what could be done over the course of time but the desire in the near future would be the ELC and then um the membership center the aquatic center uh the trail system and then this would be kind of just a held

108space for any future needs that we don't know what they are yet really >> is there a reason why that could not have mirrored and cleared off your vegetation buffer >> say that again >> future expansion could have been on the other side that would have eliminated the need of that pinch point that you've created because the building has shifted. >> So, we were also trying to be mindful of how you would physically build it in the future and that corner is we almost feel like we have to build our way out of that corner um because it is it is tight. The other conversation was about if that's where the pool is that you know on this side it's just a gymnasium so you could just add a a half this is the size

109of a half gym really so you could just add that on versus having you know we would end up having to flip the pool the whole building would would flip um yeah >> are there any online questions I don't know >> there's no one in the Okay. >> There's nobody here but the presenters. There's no one from the public >> on our on the team. They better not have question. >> You have no me no members of the public here tonight. Um I did want to clarify though, Madam Chair, to your comment about comment 18 from Mike Carter about the loading. So section 5.2.1 just says that there must be adequate off- streetet loading spaces which are provided. And section 5.2.6 just says if there are loading bays, it specifies the size and height. There

110are no loading bays proposed. There are loading area. the loading area is specified on the YMCA's plans at the front of their building. So, that has been um addressed and there shouldn't be any further concerns from Mike, but I'll get clarification from that. But no loading docks are required. >> Okay. >> And as it sits on the plan should be sufficient. >> Okay. Thank you for checking on that. >> Um looking at the materials and I appreciate that. I don't earlier in the week um earlier in the week I had a Zoom meeting with Jasmine and I and Carrie um because I wanted to touch base about getting materials to the board in advance. Typically we would get materials on Thursday um so that people would have time over the weekend. So, I I wanted

111to go through as we progress now with this project, the setting up the the pattern of how we're going to operate to make sure we get stuff in advance. Um, and Carrie suggested kind of going through u draft presentation of what we saw tonight. And so, um, one of my concerns at that point was that the elevations were very much like the elevations we saw earlier, not in terms of exactly the shape, but in terms of that they were very hard to see. It was a very ghosty building, you know, kind of back there. And so, I had asked for more information about what what does this building actually well is one of the things we said, what does it look like, right? And I know it's still early in the early in the process,

112but it's one of the purviews of the planning board is to say, what does this look like from the public way? That's like our job. What does how does the building perform from the public way? What's on the back side doesn't even really concern us that much because you can't see it from a public way, but the front side does. And so I appreciate the difference between that earlier presentation and it's it seems like CBT went back and like really looked at these elevations a little bit better. not in terms of changing them, in terms of what the material looks like at various times of the day and in various sun and shadows. And I think I think that came across much better, but I am wondering about um the like the masonry, the brick

113seems to really change in the different lights. I don't know if it's just gray or if if if other colors are being considered, you know, or is it just gray gray metal, gray brick? Um, and what's the what's your thought on on that and where it's going? We have so this this original rendering shows at least the gen the general intent that we want it to have some warm texture to it not to be super like monolithic as far as the color of it. At one point we were looking at salvaged masonry that seemed to be questionable but we really wanted kind of a something with texture something with a warm kind of a warm look to it. I know that these other renderings changed the color of the brick and I think we were

114focused more on the the metal panel than the brick, but we weren't saying that the brick or the CMU itself was going to change color. >> Right. No, I mean I think for me um and I'd interested in hearing with the other board, but that sorry, the other the image that you were just on where that brick does have more of a warmth to it in contrast with the the coolness of the panel that would then reflect whatever's around it. makes it a little bit more substantial like that in a way that I like. I like the contrast between the the warm brick maybe what won't disappear and the panel that will kind of come and go depending on the light quality. I mean those that's what I was kind of looking to look at

115and in asking for more giving us something more to talk about with those elevations about what that building really looks like. Where are you standing Deepa? Um, >> not to put you on the spot, but I know you're thinking about it. >> I know. Um, felt too flat for me. It felt like it lost that kind of that articulation that it had in the initial renderings. It felt now it's become like very uh I don't know if that metal panel is overpowering the masonry and I think that's why that but it lost that articulation for some even though the image the inspiration image that you had of the vertical vertical panels and the same kind of that uh movement the horizontal seam lines are not really getting you that depth. that some of the initial

116renderings had. You've changed the color palette for sure, but I think it added to that flatness of that elevation. >> Do you mean so that those shingles those shingles were more like >> depth and then I think the metal panels overpowering what's happening with the masonry as well? So to me it felt a little too flat and I felt like it feels too cold now instead of feeling yes the lighting tricks that you have with all the different daylight and the time of the day it helps but I think that's not the reality and maybe what may help is actually see samples of you know sea versus >> renderings are always hard to kind of yeah >> and again part of the the process with to value management is we are looking at probably in

117changing the ratio of the metal to CMU which is which will help that filling of making sure that the metal doesn't overpower the masonry >> and I'm assuming you're not going to have such long >> um panels without seam lines or something like that which would >> which is right now missing and is a little deceptive because you're definitely not going to see ft of panel just like that. Yep, that is very true. >> So, >> it sounds like we need some close-ups and some material >> and a little more kind of articulation to these elevations. Right now, I'm assuming your goal today was just to show general massing of >> a general sense in the concept of the materials and the where the materials are located. >> Yeah. And thank you for adding that

118little bit of break in that facade to add that light. That definitely helps. Um, knowing that there's going to be a high number of residential properties, we absolutely have to careful about how much it's reflecting. What is it reflecting? You don't want from the folks across the street about too much reflection on the building as well. You do have trees, but >> so definitely look at that material. >> Blair is something we obviously come on. >> Yeah. driving on that road >> until the trees get bigger. Uh do you maybe a picture of if you've used those panels before at another building? If I can just see what that building looks like, that'd be kind of cool. I don't know. I'm just I'm picturing a big metal like I I I don't have a design

119eye at all. So like you can show me a Lego building. It'll be fine. Um, I'm just I'm more worried about like the like the reflection coming and like >> just burning the grass and just like >> physical the physical samples are going to help a lot. >> We do a lot of glare studies with a lot of our buildings. >> The the most common contributor to that usually is the glass over the materials that we're using and there's not a lot of that glass on the south side. And again with that, we're not looking to have it be super reflective as far as the mirror like of it. We really want it to be a a matte reflective like reflecting the environment not the you know super reflective on the sun. So I think

120the physical materials are going to be an important part of helping everyone understand what that that could be. >> Lonnie question for you about the materials. What was kind of the motivation to picking these materials used? Was it cost? Was it design? Was it something else? What was driving you to use lighter materials versus maybe darker materials? >> The lighter materials was definitely about making sure that the the building was respecting the environment itself. like the the idea of it reflecting the environment around it was a big driving factor and the having that lightness of the aluminum and then having the CMU base as a a contrasting material was cost based in a little bit but also just the the context of we are in New England we didn't want it to look like just

121a big metal warehouse so the masonry really helped with with that contrast and again we're playing with the the ratio still and probably going to increase the masonry But that was the really the driving the driving factor of reflecting the environment around it with the lighter color metal. >> Yeah. >> So I have a question for you all. this building still could be a matter of years away. And so we're really struggling with trying to understand how like how far do we let the design team go if we don't know how, you know, when the fundraising aligns with it, right? And so I feel kind of like we could talk about this forever and when we go to build it, it still might look different because it's going to be driven, you know, we have

122all these design intents. we have our ideal, you know, building of what we want it to look like, but but the the fundraising may take us down a different route entirely, right? So, I guess I look for your advice on how do we get a site plan approval for a master plan knowing that we still have to go through a building permit process. We still need to give ourselves a little wiggle room so that if this is not a three-year project, it's a six-year project or a 10-year project that we're not locked in or we don't pay to design a building that we can't build. >> So, we've dealt with this as a board as far as, you know, kind of approving projects that then look very different in reality and that can be a

123problem. And I I think it just needs to be I guess I would suggest two things. When we do these types of conversations to underline what you're saying as much as possible, come up with this when we discuss materiality and you're coming in with samples to come up with >> plan B, C, and D. Here's four potential samples that we could end up with depending on cost and fundraising and start having those kinds of conversations. And then ultimately, if we approve something and it looks really different, I think you have to come back. >> Okay. I think there has to be some willingness to come back to the board and say, >> "You approved something. Our budget is different. It looks totally different now. We're going to have to kind of have another conversation." >>

124Yeah. I feel like I'm kind of we're getting stuck in this chicken or the egg situation. And I what I don't want to do is develop a building and then just say, you know, go out, Peter, and find, you know, a gajillion more dollars. You know, we're trying to like balance that. And so this last round that we did was really trying trying to take what we thought was maybe a little bit too extravagant and dial it back, but we really don't want to dial it back more unless we have to. And so we're really kind of uh you know teetering on this especially because this this is has been such a a large discussion. So I >> I've been looking at this more like philosophically like it's going to have some of these elements

125and >> I for one think it's a little premature to start looking at samples. I'd rather focus on the location of the building, >> the landscaping, the buffer zones, >> the approval with concom design review committee, all of those things before we start to look at M. I it feels very premature for me, but I understand the principle. I'm looking at these renderings as philosophical kind of this is going to have a bit of that modern feel to it reflecting sun. I think what you're saying is I think what I'm hearing from the architect team is you're trying to create a space that has some modernity but also reflect literally a reflection of the nature of the site. So that's why we're looking at what it looks like with the sun going down and we're

126seeing the in these renderings we're seeing the the shadows of the trees and all that. So that's what I'm taking away from it. I think it's a little bit too soon to start looking at. >> Yeah. And I guess so that would be my my next question and I I don't beat around the bush like how do we get to a finish line if we're not ready to be at the finish line right like because a site plan is is >> I think we need to come up with we need to come up with a like a chronology of what's next and at what point are we doing design review at what point are we looking at landscaping in more detail >> well can't we can't we approve the or like can't we make decisions

127on that setback piece with the landscaping setback like we can do that without knowing what the front of the building looks like, right? And can't we make the height determination if they stay within the, you know, the average? I know you asked for the mean, but like between the 30 and 50 feet, can't we just say like, "Yeah, we sounds good." Like, and then if they come back with something that's 75 ft and, you know, then we're like, "No, right." But like as long as they stay within that, can't we give them that so that they can, you know, secure the fundraising and get the things to like move those steps forward? >> Yeah. I mean, I think there's kind of two parts to this. One is the parts that you're saying that's that's more

128okay. The height's going to need to be if if it's not 34 and a half ft, it needs to be in this range without and you don't have to come back to us with a change in that. And or you know, we want to look at the um the connections of the path a little bit better or the sidewalks or the parking, you know, whatever it is that we want to get more specific about. And all of those things we we resolve and and then the end piece is just kind of what does this thing look like? and and you know as we had discussed on the zoom like this thing is maybe at 25% maybe like at right now right and so of course >> I don't know if Lonnie agrees with that you

129think it's >> a little further than that but all I'm all I want to say is it's going it may change again right and it may we may not know what the membership center looks like and we may be ready to start construction on the early learning that's actually my bigger concern we can keep coming back every every month but but I want to make sure we're progressing so that we can actually get Yeah. So, I I think like I think like Anna was saying, it's really and and about what's already been presented. It is about having a feel of like these are the design goals as far as having this modern piece and this more earthy local piece which is maybe the masonry >> have a feel about the the kind of the feel

130of the materials. Are they both in like the this gray modern zone? Is one warmer? Not the exact not the exact masonry piece, but but what is the what is the thought on that? And that probably wouldn't change over several years because it has a basis in >> you know that it's either warm or it's cool or it's it has dividing lines or it doesn't. It's it's more about the design of the building and that's applied to whatever whatever the shape and size of the building actually is. So I don't think it is about like picking out something so specific but that we really understand. >> You know this is kind of the this the general scheme that we're working in >> and then we wouldn't come be surprised to be like to come back

131and be like oh it now it's all uh >> it it's all wood frame and you know >> some things aren't going to change right. Yeah, exactly. >> And if early learning center was is sounds like the priority, I don't think we saw any views on that side of >> No. And I think you know, Lonnie can speak to this, but the goal is that the early learning center would be some type of reflection of this same. It's like a a miniature version, right? some metal panels, some masonry um peaks into the um I think it was on one of the slides like where where you'll get um visual access versus um you know where it will be more private to those I think from the site point of view like looking at what's that

13211 ft retaining wall look like kind of a lot more of those images if you're looking at just sight for now and I think having focused images that really reflect what you're looking for at this point may be critical versus looking at this and I think you're also bringing back every time you're bringing back a new iteration of this front facade. So that's what is triggering all these comments and >> if you've noticed those comments on materiality came after an hour and a half of the presentation. It did not come at the beginning. So I think if the focus is more on the site and what you need on the bigger material, so that's what the conversation should be about the path and the access from the Dunkin Donuts, the trail. So I think presentation

133also should be geared towards that if that's where you need further and additional direction. >> Yeah. And again, I'm more asking you all because this is a little bit of a unique situation where we're not looking to build this whole thing day one, right? We're we're looking to master plan it, get the approval from the town that this could be allowable, right? But but also not tie ourselves into to a hard deadline because we can't predict um the timeline quite yet. So um okay, >> yeah, there's a dumpster enclosure. Is your mic on? >> How is looking for where the dumpster is? Make sure that's on >> um you know how you know how's the trash coming in? How's it picked up? >> Yep. >> Um kind of thing. So that's like Yeah. >> Yeah.

134And I don't know, you know, to what extent those were in the GCG comments, but I think, you know, I think that what would be great for us is for you all to digest the GCG comments, have GCG reply back on things that they're not clear about, and then to come up with a list of these are the things, right? So, the things that you're bringing up, I guess, you know, site wall I it's not going to be visible from the site. It's going to be visible maybe from the trail, but maybe not because there's woods. I need to know or I want to know what is that list like the email you sent us the other day and I was like yep that aligns with the list we have but it'd be better to

135have that tomorrow so we can get going on the next iteration to me I know our next presentation has to be um response to the traffic it has to be focused on landscape but you know there's a lot of the things that have been asked that I'm starting you know feeling like a broken record that I feel like we have presented so I want to be explicit next time of what you need and what we provide to make sure and and we weren't aware until recently that we were supposed to be sending a week in advance. So happy to do that. So happy to do that. Um so you know we want to bring you guys along as as easily as we can so you know what we're trying to do here. >> Yeah. And

136if you can you know you know if it feels like we're talking in a circle certainly let us know. I mean, I I feel like like for some things, um, like again, the connections, it's like I think you can see them, but when I keep looking at the trolley book trail and how this connects, it's really hard to see. Like it would be great to have a little blow up. This is how that trail, which Ashlin has put a big investment in, connects to this YMCA, which seems to be to me a like a critical thing, like connection. And that's what it's it's what I've heard it's been all about from the beginning. So show me in detail how that is happening. That beautiful little intersection. How is it happening at Dunkin Donuts? It can't

137be just well you know I don't know they won't talk to us like what are you guys doing because that is the way people will walk majority like so we need to address it or like I said the coming through the woods from the trolley book trail and hitting this 11 foot wall. That's what is Well, >> yeah. >> So, be aware. The wall will be up. You can't You won't be >> Oh, I keep I keep thinking it's down. >> Yes, we're up. So, you won't see the walls unless you're in the woods. And if you're on the trail, you would have to scale the wall to >> scale the walls. >> Yeah. Which God, I hope. Keep thinking fall into it. You're you're going to have to go up it. >> Yeah. You

138go up it at the top. There will be um >> So, you fall from the other direction. >> Yeah. That would be a fence required by code. >> Yeah. So, um but yeah, I cannot get that through my head that it's going the other way. Okay. Um >> Okay. So, we'll do that. We'll regroup. We'll um kind of make sure that we're aligned on the on the content of what you need to see again because we are so entrenched in designing this building that that some of the things that are important to your discussions are on our list, but maybe not at the top of our list, right? because we've been spending so much time trying to figure out how we can afford to build this that um you know some of those things have

139fallen off. So we're happy to bring them back. >> Is this modeled in 3D? >> Yeah. >> Like so is it possible to and I'm just thinking about with the landscape is it possible to you bring so we can see the model like so that we can >> probably not on that laptop. >> Yeah, probably not on that laptop. But if you can but if you can hook up your own because it would it'd be greatly I think be able to understand how this building fits into this landscape which I'm even I'm having trouble visualizing if we can see it in the model. Is that is that doable? Is that >> Yeah. >> I I am curious kind of what your chronology is as to what you need from us sort of what is your

140visual as to when you would like us to approve this project versus the fundraising? >> August. We did not expect this to take this long. So we we were hoping to go to the board in September and say we are done with town permitting and you know we we were here in July. We were here prior. So we're going to be we would like to be able to apply for a building permit early next year if not before. >> Okay. >> For the early learning center, >> not necessarily for the membership but for the early learning center. But we would also like to get this resolved. Right. This is a lot of >> so I guess >> a lot of effort and a lot of uh >> maybe we should talk about what's next. I'm

141assuming concom you are on your way there. >> Concom we are on their way there. We submitted our written notes and uh back to Becca and then she had replied about the waddles. We have made that adjustment. So I just need to loop back and see if they need to hear anything more from us. >> Um yeah I'm hoping we're just about done with concom. Yeah, it's a it's a little it's a very different project for us, but you know, um we usually I'm just being honest here, we usually see a lot more detail about the outside of the building, >> but like >> I don't understand this. Why does the outside of the building stop us from the fact of that landscape set off or the other? >> No, no, it doesn't. It's all

142of it. All of it is >> why are we like why are we holding up on putting that like can't we why can't we approve that tonight? Like like why? >> Because the whole project has to be approved in a decision. >> The entire thing >> a fullite plan is that >> but like does the design and the way that they put the front of the the building has to be approved by us? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Does that stated somewhere in like the >> That's literally what we do. >> We Well, we have design guidelines, >> but I know there's guidelines, but if they fall within the guidelines, >> right? Exactly. You have to follow. So you can't look at this and say we can't design. So our standard process is at some

143point in our process we tend to send it back to design review committee with specific instructions of details that we want to clarify. Obviously you know that our reality right now with design review committee. So one of the things we need to figure out as a board is like what's next? So concom is happening. Are we going to take this to design review or not? What's the next step for us? I feel like we're very close to getting our like for me I want the landscape detail in the next round and I would feel good about that once I have that. I do wonder if that's more appropriate for design review committee rather than us that type of detail but I don't think we have a design review committee right now. >> No. >> So

144we kind of have to do that work ourselves all the all the design elements because we don't have a design review committee to send this to. But as long as it falls within the guidelines, we can't really do much outside of that, right? >> It doesn't say like you get to pick the color. >> No. No. It's not It's not our job to be the architect for the job. It's our job. It's our job to see >> if does the building fit into does it reflect Ashland? Does it fit into Ashland in our view of that? >> I mean, if it's a Lego project, we're not going to prove it. >> Right. No, I I not trying to not saying we have to look for that, but I'm also I want to be cognizant that

145>> they've they've come to us and then we haven't met and we haven't met and like we have now and like I get it. They're a business. They want to move forward and we want to do the thing. So, I want to make sure that we are not being friction on this and I'm not saying we are at this point, but I do understand. >> Well, this is why we're asking for a chronology and we're trying to figure out what's next. So, do we know when Kong is meeting? like what's their timeline? >> Okay. And other than the questions I've asked on landscaping, is there anything else we need them to come back to us? Obviously, we want more details. We want more what's it called? Um closer detail of that front. >> There's there's

146there's details about the landscape, about the the you know trees, about plantings versus trees. Is it all the lawn? Is it their bushes? Is there flowers? Like what, you know, what's there? Um there's questions about again about the connections and making them clear like you know how and because that's really one of the things you know that how does this thing fit into the community right what happens >> so are you envisioning a map that's much more like here's all the sidewalks like focused in on the sidewalks here's all the >> it it could be it could be just certain little areas to zoom in on because because obviously large parts of this don't connect to anything because it's a big site but where where the connections are important. You know, maybe that that main

147walkway like you know the main entrances to the site and then the right and the left like how are those how how are those connections made? Like zooming in on those details. Um, I think there's the the question just about in in order for us to, you know, it's a little bit more clear now because it's just a landscape buffer that we're working up with, but just a little bit more information about the the the corner the piece of land that's cut in so that we can easily give that okay because we un when we know more we understand more about the piece of land and like I said, this can be this can be just drawn off of maps that are online um the public available information. Um, >> I'm also curious about the

148accessible path to the ELC versus having to go all the way around to the front of the membership building and come right about. So, I'm not sure how that accessibility would play in from the front of the building to >> so I'm hearing five things. >> Say, say that again, Da. >> So, the accessibility path to the ELC seems like a long way. from the street. >> From the street. >> Yeah. It feels like a super long path to come to the membership and then go. Um, but I also don't know since you have the two handicap parking right there. Is there some give and take because it is quite deep right from the street to that. So, I don't know if there's like some >> Are you asking for somebody like coming down the

149sidewalk from the left? Yeah. I mean, for example, somebody's at the Dunkin Donuts wants to come. >> Well, that's on the right. >> Yeah. It's it's a long path to get there >> or if they're coming from the trail side and want to enter the building, it's a slow >> I I think the question will be and we we'll check on what's required by code, but I I think the user group at the ELC is not going to be coming on foot regardless of where they're coming from, right? Maybe somebody picks up their kid in a stroller, but >> 99% of those folks are coming in their car. That's why they have their own parking lot, their own kind of segregated um >> drive aisle to get them in and out quickly. But but we

150can look at that for sure. >> Um >> I still think it's a >> something >> I still think it's unfortunate that that you can't get from the you can't get from the street to the back of the building without going through the building. That seems to be >> a long winded. >> Yeah. It's like okay, but it's not great. It's not great thing to be able to say, I don't think. You know, I don't know. It could be this. It could be the site. It could be just impossible. But, um, >> so there's no sidewalk on the front of the building, right? >> Yep. There's a a full building apron kind of this front area, right? All >> No, on the street side. >> Oh, no, not right now. Because there wasn't really anywhere

151to go. >> So, it's actually coming on the opposite side crossing. That's a long way to go and it's a very narrow street to be on the street. >> Yeah. But there's what they're saying is there's nothing connecting on either side of the other way. You know what I mean? Like and they're not going to build a sidewalk all the way up to the >> Sure. >> to the train station or to the dog park or whatever. >> And the site topography is very difficult. Very difficult. >> Yeah. So, I'm not saying it's possible. It just it's unfortunate for a building like this to not have that kind. You mentioned twice about the early learning center going first before the membership. >> Are you breaking the application in two or are you phasing it? >>

152The building permits would be separate, but we're hoping that the site plan can be one. >> Again, we want to get a site plan approval for the master plan, which would be the full buildup of the full site. >> So, it seems like there's Sorry, go ahead. >> If a donor falls out of the sky with a whole bunch of money, we're going to build everything, right? So, what we're trying to do is is segment it in a way that we can kind of work our way through but not have to be in front of you for every step of the way. Just say this is the full picture. >> We're going to get to this over the next coming years. >> So, so the part that makes me nervous is you want this quickly

153done, but it's going to take years to build or years to get to fundraising. So that makes me very very nervous because what we approve this year and what it's going to look like two years from now when you get funding in my mind will be quite different period. There just it's not it's just an impossibility. And so I I think for me I really wonder and this is maybe a Jasmine question whether when we approve this project we can have an agreement in the approval that um that you will come back to show us there I to me that's multiple years based on funding you could come back with something totally different >> come back >> well or something something substantially different >> back to this phase we're in a great position we've secured

154over 11 million dollars on this project. So people from Ashland and all over this community, businesses, foundations have been, you know, supporting this project, but they're asking >> they're asking, do you have site plan approval? How much is this going to cost? We don't have site plan approval, and we don't know how much it's going to cost until until we have approval. And so we can't put a pin in this is going to be 60 million or 55 million or 50 million. Absolutely. We don't know. But we have 11 million dollars secured to get this project started. And so a first phase of this right now, I believe we're in a position if we can get site plan approval soon because we're talking to banks right now. We met with 12 different banks who want

155to help us finance this project over the summer. But we can't take the next step with them until we can show them a pro-formal budget with site plan approval that they know the town is in support. So we're going nowhere with that. We have donors who are saying, "Do you have site plan approval? How much is this going to cost?" We can't get there yet. We know we have 11 million dollars secured, which would be sufficient to break ground in 2026 to get the early learning center complete with Nature's Edge and a lot of site prep, which would buy us time to keep fundraising so that we could roll right into the membership center and keep moving. Not 10 years, not 20 years for for dramatic effect. Kerry is right. you know, if I mean,

156it could take some time, but right now there's some faith going on between the why, who's doing this for the community benefit of Ashland and the surrounding communities. So, we're sticking our necks out there really far, investing time, energy with all of these expensive people in the room going back to keep working these plans, spending money every day going out the window that could be going into the project. Um, so that's where we are. And again, phase one could we could break ground if we can get site plan approval in 2026. Early learning center done, Nature's Edge done, connections to sewer, getting all these things ready. Uh, and we could within a year be going right into the membership facility, you know, and then within, you know, we could be done with all of this

157in short order. you know, if we can keep the momentum going, but if we get stuck, you know, God knows how long it's going to take. And if I have to put all of these folks on a giant pause, you know, until we get it figured out, you know, we we may not who knows when we'll break ground. >> So, for the site plan, you need the traffic studies, you need the concom you need the GCG report complete. So, that's still ongoing and that's not on our plate, right? It's not >> that's outside of our control. It's outside our control. >> So that has nothing to do with this board. >> Yeah. >> Um so I'm not hearing that anyone has slowed anything down. I think the traffic study concom is completely outside of our

158purview and that's something that is happening. What I'm hearing is there's five things we need to do for our next meeting. Correct me if I'm wrong. There's a focus on the sidewalk connectivity, specifically the um exploring, we're not forcing, we're just exploring the ability to go from the street level to the back and we're exploring not forcing a conversation of is there a kind of safer way to get from the Duncan to the site. Right? So those were that's item one. Item two was the landscape detail. We have no design review committee to send that to. We need to make those um approvals if you will. And so we specifically asked, at least I did, of seeing what trees are coming down, what's being planted where, a more detailed landscape visual of what's where. Um

159there was the designers, architects on this board for the correct reasons wanted more detail of the materials, closeups with the understanding that two years from now it may look different. And all I suggested was whatever decision we approve and we could have a decision written in a few more meetings in theory that we have a discussion about what substantial change looks like so that two years from now if you do look different you will come back. That's not some sort of slowdown of a project in any way. It's more of an understanding that if we approve a project and it looks different, despite the excitement of the public today, we the planning board are then responsible and we have had that happen in this town. >> That's why the look and feel is exactly what

160we're committed to. You know, the exact details of the dimensions of a shingle or the exact ratios. >> Oh gosh, nothing like that. No, nobody wants to get involved in inches, >> you know, exact colors and all these things, you know, working that stuff out. uh but the look and feel we're committed to and if we were to change that dramatically we would of course come back. >> I think that's not the criteria. Material and color is not the criteria. What's what's important at this stage is the massing the height. That's all is important. And every time you present a different version of it, everything changes, right? You're looking at the same building. Even though you're talking about height, when the materiality changes, it changes how you look at that building. So the 30 ft

161and 34 feet when you have a warm color versus a cool pallet it changes a lot. So I think the decision about whether 30 ft is okay or 34T is okay somewhere unfortunately is tied to that. So we are not asking you at this point to say give us a color whether it's a copper or aluminum. We're not talking about that. But the massing is what gets affected and which is what you have a special permit request for which is talks about the height and I think that's what we want to focus at this point. It's not about the materiality. It's not about the color at this >> but that I'm so sorry Deepa I may I just it's a little contradicting because you just said it's not about the color but you just said

162the color impacts the visual aspect. So she talked about kind of that being a third point. So that's what I was talking about. It's not it's that's not important for us right now. >> But when you talk about the heights, unfortunately the color kind of palette kind of plays into. >> So we can when we approve this if they if you approve this right they cannot change anything about the building mass height. The only thing they can change are visual aspects. So facade color um materials that are used. So what you can say is we don't want any reflective material. We don't want to see metal, but you can't say it has to be clapboard siding, >> right? >> Um you can't you can't deny the permit because you don't know what the material is

163because that that would actually be in conflict with the law. >> I don't think I don't think we're saying that at all. >> Okay. I'm just making sure that because it sounds like you're tying the material and the height very closely together based on color scheme and how that's going to be. >> I took what was saying more as >> that the proportionality of certain height has a direct how it presents itself >> has an impact. >> It does. It does. >> That's how I took it. I did not take it in any different way. I just wanted to clarify for >> And then the fourth thing I saw was the focus on the corner and the I think it was um Trisha you you referred to it as the cut in the corner. >>

164Yeah. But but where where they're asking for the for the waiver y just know >> and then the fifth thing I heard was accessibility path to the ELC. So to me, those five things, if we can really focus in on them at the next meeting, in theory, as long as you've done the traffic study, the concomment, and what was the third thing? >> Um, >> traffic. >> And when you say accessibility, do you mean from >> for accessibility for the ELC, do you mean from the roadway or from the wellness center? Well, I guess we should focus on that parking layout because if ELC is something that's happening if we need to zoom in and pay a little more attention. It was hard to read all the kind of labels on the site plan. So

165I I feel like I have to read >> so you understand it better from the from the entrance to the >> flow. It may not be critical but just from accessibility quite a few. So to me those five things are within our purview at the next meeting assuming Trisha you agree with the list and then traffic concom GCC is fully outside of our control. That's something that other people have to work on and those those two things the three things outside of our control and the five that I just mentioned we would hopefully have all of that ready for the next meeting. If those things are not already, then any delay is not on us, right? It's up to traffic, Hong Kong, Jesus. Um, and presumably if we have good progress at the next meeting,

166we can start drafting a decision. >> Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to be clear. I mean, that that three of us have been through this too many times now. um two of us are more new but um uh you know it it should you should know that um I don't think in any way is the board not excited about this about this project. We're just going through our normal our normal questions. It's a big project. There's a lot of information. We have a lot of questions. We want to know how how things work. And this is a actually I think you know for one meeting we got way farther granted because we didn't have much on our agenda than we typically get. So I'm actually really excited about that that we're kind of talking

167about these little details and there's not anything that's hugely out there. You know we just want more details on some areas now. Now maybe the accessible just can't happen. It's a tricky landscape. I know you've looked at it. we're just saying, boy, can you take another can can you really just take another look at it and see because wouldn't that be nice um to have um so and that this the the list is actually pretty pretty doable. Um we don't I don't see it as being I don't see it as being at least at least in our experience it's a very it's a very light list. So um I I'm I'm afraid that's not how you're taking it. Um and also a lot of the questions that have been asked are represent happy to walk

168through those questions. I think it has to be done public because of the size of this project. I I don't think the list we noted is is that complicated where we need to be off the record. I I I for one think that this is not being being delayed in any way and and to me this is what our third meeting on this topic. Well, it's certainly an unfortunate start, but that's no one's that's Boy, I wouldn't have I didn't ask for that either, you know, to have to start and stop the way we've done for months. That was >> Yeah. Not not something any of us any of us wanted to do, but we're here now and I think it's kind of, you know, made a lot of progress and there's not that many

169topics to consider. So, um, >> what do we need to do to get the traffic, Concom, and GCC done? >> Traffic, we're just waiting. We and originally we were going through Bills and Thomas and they were thirdparty Vaness and Associates. So we just went through and just signed a contract with Vaness. So I'm hoping we'll get comments from them by next week or the week after. I know next week there's a holiday Monday, but um I can touch base with them. Um conservation we really we actually if conservation is even open we by law you cannot hold up a special permit or site plan based on any other committee. Um >> yeah, we normally approve our we we do our decisions based on there. Correct. But typically we hear how things are going. >> I

170think they maybe have maybe at maybe two more meetings at most. >> Okay. And then the GCC review we would receive typically for our decision. >> We probably just received this October 7th. Mike's pretty quick. So we'll probably get comments from Absolutely. by the next meeting. Sounds like we'll have the traffic in the GCC in time and we we're not waiting from any other department. Police, fire, >> fire has already commented. They've already given their um roundabout DPWs all set. They've already got their EV charging stations um displayed and capped. So I the only other thing would be obviously building after us. >> Having the precons that you talked about would be critical um because this is not a project that's all starting tomorrow. um want to avoid the situation of clear cutting that we

171had in the previous project. So I think having that account of >> the landscape >> what's the landscape and the details of trees for site plan review put in the decision. >> We don't want the bunch of trees to be cut down and three years later community kind of coming back to us >> October 23rd Yes, unless there happens some odd reason, we don't have a quorum. >> One last note, just because I know you're presenting the for the CPC funds that public access to the back is going to be is going to come up. That's going to be probably one of the biggest parts of the town push back is because if we're funding this, we want to have access. And if you're saying the only way to access the back area is through

172the building, I don't know if that's going to how that's going to look or if there's going to be a a way to do it easier or anything of that nature. So like if somebody's, hey, we're using our field for this event, do they have to go through the building? Is that the only way? And I'm just not sure how it works logistically inside of a YMCA because I I have only gone like to go inside the building. I've never gone to go outside of a building. So I don't know. So just whatever that is, I'm just throwing that as a note. >> Yeah, because that's I I promise you it's going to come up of because somebody's going to be like, well, if I want to use if I want to bring my, you

173know, daughter's lacrosse team to practice in the back, you know, little piece of the field, how do we get access to that? And if it's like you only can go through the building, it's going to be it's it it's not going to work. And if it's also like how do we sign up for that? So, these are the things that I know are going to come up in town. I'm sure you can come up with awesome plans for it. So, just because I really want to make sure we head off any of those negative parts. >> Add that as number six access. Do you want to add that as like a number six access to the back of the lot? >> That's only, you know, I mean, if you don't want the approval, I mean,

174you don't have to do that. I'm just saying >> that's the money to get there. That's going to be a push back. Thanks. If if I can just ask question related to the site access on site page C302 there is a proposed stairwell is this different from what >> what >> yeah I think question >> accessible there's a trail right now with stairs >> you're talking about access >> can you not hear any can you not hear any of you guys. >> Okay. >> So, there's a there's a staircase that goes there's a path between the buildings and then a staircase that goes along the back of the building. The question in my mind is if you are not able-bodied, how do you get there? >> Yeah. Because that's that's one of the things that

175we want to talk about with like the the figure eight in the back, right? Like if we want that to be, >> you know, accessible, then we want that to be open to everybody, which really helps with everybody in town liking it. Right. >> How do they get back there if the only way is through the boat? >> Yep. Yep. >> Okay, great. Thank you. I appreciate you like, you know, fielding our comments and I think, you know, and I don't want you to think we're like pointing at you, but there have been some unfortunate delays over the summer that none of you can control um that we have all >> been traveling along this path with you. Yeah, I I I hear you. And it, you know, it's been on my mind for months

176and months trying to fill this board. Yeah. Right. And it's not >> a place I wanted to be, but here we are. So, um I'm still here. I didn't leave, so can't blame me. >> Thanks, Trisha. >> I almost did a number of times. >> Thank you for that. >> Um but anyway, I don't want you guys to leave feeling frustrated. I want you to leave feeling optimistic because we're actually I mean, anyone can say differently, but I think I can speak for the board that we're really excited about this project for Ashland. I think Ashland is excited about this project. So, we're just going to we're going through our our normal round of questions and we have when we have a lot. So, um um and that's it. >> Okay. >> Thank you. But

177please reach out if you are unsure about anything to me to Jasmine and we'll make sure you get some some answers based on our discussion here or clarification so that you're not feel like you're not grinding your wheels on anything. >> And always feel free to reach out directly to our peer reviewers for time sake. So you're you don't have to wait to send it to us for us to send it to them. You can communicate directly. So otherwise we will look to um continue this until the next meeting on October what is it 23rd 23rd. >> Will we be ready because we want materials one week before the meeting. You're not getting the reports till end of next week. >> Are we going to be ready? >> I don't know. But I guess we

178will in this we will when we get materials in advance we can the the discussion goes quicker, but if we don't, we just might need more time during the meeting to to read and ask questions, right? So, >> um, we do like to get them in advance, but I understand with what we've gone through this summer, we may need to move this along a little quicker and so get it get them to us as soon as you can. >> At bare minimum, we'd have comment review comments from GCG. >> So, >> and I'm hoping for from Vanessa as well. They may not have time to respond to Vaness, but we would at least have their opening comments. >> But good question. >> As long as we are all clear about that, that's all because it

179takes time to read. >> Yes. Yes. >> reports. >> It does. >> All right. So, um I think we're ready to continue this. >> I'll make a motion to continue 30 Memorial Drive, the YMCA project to October 23rd. >> Right. Is there a second? >> Second that. and roll call vote. >> Anna Tesman I >> Scott Pilot I >> Montino I >> and Trisha Kendall I so we will see you on the 23rd and we'll look forward to it. >> You're welcome. >> On the 23rd we also have a joint meeting with the board of select select board I'm sorry our select board to review our comprehensive plan and they will be first on the agenda. So you you probably will be later on in the evening. So I wouldn't recommend you be here right

180at 7 for cost purposes. have, you know, >> well, it's it's also possible to, you know, we've seen it now. We've met you in person. We we can do it online. You could, you know, you you don't have to be here all in person. So, >> save sometimes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> So, the plan the the select board co- meeting is not next week. >> No, it's the 23rd. >> 23rd. I thought it was originally scheduled for the 15th because I couldn't make that one. >> No, because the comprehensive plan meets on the 16th to vote. >> Yes. >> What's the meeting on the 15th then? >> That's the comp plan. That's on the 16th. >> The 16th is the comprehensive plan meeting. There is no meeting on the 15th >> that I'm

181aware of. Unless the select board is having their own. >> Not that I'm aware of. >> I thought we had a co- meeting with them to go over the comprehensive plan on the 15th. It might have been originally been the 15th, but now it's on the 23rd. >> It's being pushed. >> Yes. So, so what happened? >> So, what happened? >> Right. So, I'm not crazy. Okay. >> Is that the That's the comprehensive plan though to the board to the select board. There's a joint. >> I thought we were supposed to be part of that to >> We're a second meeting after that. So, they get a presentation on the 15th and then they're coming at a joint hearing with us on the 23rd. >> Yeah. So, what happened that the 15th is on a

182Wednesday, right? So what happened was that it was originally scheduled for the select board meeting on the 15th, the Wednesday that we would join them then. But at the last meeting at the comprehensive plan committee, we really felt we needed well and me the rookie member um but the group as a whole felt we needed one more meeting of the comprehensive plan before that that meeting to present it. So um so that meeting is going to be on the 16th which is after the select board meeting and so the next meeting of either select board or the planning board is our meeting on the 23rd. So that's how that's that's why that's shaped out that way. >> So the 15th one is >> invitation to the select. >> No, there's nothing on the 15th. >>

183That just goes off the calendar. >> The 16th the comprehensive plan committee is meeting. So me and Anna would comprehensive plan. On the 23rd, the select board will be here with the uh consultant >> to talk at our meeting about the comprehensive plan. >> Golden. >> Yes. >> So, do we need >> We don't have anything else popping up for that our next meeting, do we? >> No, nothing new for the 23rd. You will have 55 Tilta Nav on the 13th, November 13th, but >> I will be late to the 23rd meeting because I have a work thing, but not by much. Okay, >> you guys can start without me. >> As of right now, it's just this and the YMCA. So, it's just comp plan YMCA. >> And let's keep it that way unless

184the law tells us we have to add >> unless we get an ANR. That's the only thing I would legally have to add on because of time constraints. >> Okay. >> So, let's hopefully be done. >> Okay. So, great. So, that'll be two and and I don't expect the YMCA to be as long the next time. I'm glad we spent this time. It's a big project. Everyone needed to get up to date and I think we were able to we were able to do that. So, okay. >> But you can make conditions like we don't want metal, no metal siding, no corrugated siding or things like that. You just can't specifically say it has to be clapboard. But you can say no to certain things, but you can't be like this has to be a

185purple Lego house. But you can say I don't want reflective material or if the top third of the building could be a certain something we've gone through enough to talk about it but I think point is not presented something with the expectation that reacted that's what we did >> right right >> I think we're technically we technically closed the hearing we probably should drop the topic >> yeah I mean you can speak about it in generalities. If you're talking about in general when it comes to design, you are in general allowed to say like you can't have a full face of windows, you know, no, you can't do that. So, there are some things you can say no to. Um, just it's kind of they have to be broad, if that makes sense. When it

186comes to >> we don't I mean, generally, we have not said no to anything. In my experience of the planning board, what we what we have attempted to do is when we approve a project, we assume that there's not going to be substantial change that pisses off anyone in the community significantly. Have had unfortunate experience with that. So, we are somewhat traumatized. We have group trauma. >> Those of us who have been on this board, >> I think that's fair. have some trauma when it comes to the concept that we're going to approve something and then when it's built, people are like, "What did they approve that darn planning board?" >> Now, this is a massive project that everyone is excited about and I would love to just rubber stamp it and have this beautiful

187thing pop up, but the reality is it's so big and so much money is involved and $11 million is a lot of money. There's going to be significantly more money coming in. All of that money is going to come with vision and with cost and with budgets and it's not going to look like what we approved. Those are facts, right? Some of that we have no control over. All I'm asking is philosophical concept of let's have an open communication here so that two years from now if it looks different we come back and we look at it. So is there is there a way to come for something? >> There's not a mechanism to have them. >> There's nothing legally required for design for them to come back, but they could certainly agree to come

188back because they care about the community response if it's different. There could be an agreement. There could be kind of a mutual understanding that hey, this project is big enough that we would be more than happy to come back and flash some things on the screen and make sure everybody's happy. >> That's literally all I was asking for. I was not requiring anything. I was not breaking law. I was trying to have an open conversation from now. I'm asking for like is there any way to come like if a project gets approved based on what it says it looks like, >> how far out of that scope of approval can they go? >> This is a this is a question that we had started to address about six months ago, right? And trying to start

189to to understand then figure that based on the prior experience we have had about being like, well, that's not what we approved kind of thing. But it's hard to work out >> when it comes to decisions. Really the only time they are required to come back for a modification. So say you approve this right tonight and said, "Okay, this this is great how it is. We approve it." Tech, even if they did design it exactly how it's showed, the only time they legally have to come back is if they're actually making a change to the building. So if they're changing the layout, the size, the height, the parking requirements, if they're changing anything to the site. So to to Anna and Deepa's point, if you approve this project right now, they can change everything about

190the any project I should say. If you approve any project, they can change anything about the aesthetic that they would like. So they can change the building material, they can change the window. >> There's nothing they can do anyway. So even if they put up a picture that we all love and every like and the designers who have great eyes on this say, "Yes, it looks good." As long as they stayed in that box, then they could put up the purple Lego house and we can't do anything about it >> as long as it doesn't defy any building or zoning codes. >> Okay. So, I guess like some of that's like then what's the >> I I mean I don't know. We have had in our in our um decisions before that the the approval

191is contingent upon what we are seeing in this set of drawings. It's not like it's not like well ignore the elevations and only pay attention to the plan. They have to pay attention to all of it. But I don't think I think what they're saying is like these elevations are you know they're not done yet and I and we get it right. So um and that's the line we were looking to do but definitely our decisions are based on this set of elevations. >> Yeah the elevations the landscaping can't change. >> Totally get to I'm trying to clarify the design piece of it. So as long as it stays within that box >> then technically they can do whatever and we can't we have no recourse to it. Or can we put in like an

192asterisk on there saying if you swing very far out of the scope of that design then we can come back somehow. >> The most you could do would be to say things like no corrugated steel siding or no but also massing of windows bigger than this. >> You're also approving the drawings that are submitted with a package. Yeah. And if that rendering is submitted as part of a package, you are saying once you're giving your approval, you are saying that that piece of paper that is attached is approved. >> Got it. If it doesn't come out that way, what is our recourse? >> You can go back. I mean, >> can the town sue them? Like because you guys are >> we have stopped work. We have stopped work on projects. >> You given an

193example of of something that came out wildly different than what you expected it to look like. You stopped working to hide >> and did they change it and make it? >> Yeah. >> So, it did come back into what it was supposed to look like >> for design, not for design. >> Okay. >> For design. Yes. >> So, I'm confused by this. Did a building get put up that we did that you approved that didn't come out the way you thought it was going to come out >> and they changed it and they came back and we we said what needed to be changed and it got changed. Yes. >> Okay. So, so it did come back in the scope of what you wanted. >> We brought it back. Let's say that >> but it's

194not an ideal situation. >> No, no, I again I'm just trying to understand >> in the perfect world the money will appear. Everything will be perfect. >> Scott just doesn't understand the process. He's just speaking in generality. So if this happened again, what's the process that you would bring them back? >> So but it seems like sometimes you maybe your experience is different than ours. Like we have had hap this happen where we did bring we stopped the work. We it brought it back and >> it didn't sound like that when you first told the story. It sounded like that building was still up and existing in the in the wrong design. No, it changed. We It got changed. >> So, I'm going to I'm going to reel this in. We're completely like I don't

195know what this relates to at this point in our agenda. >> I'm trying to understand the process of what we're doing. >> Yeah. Yeah. But we can't have open meeting like >> in theory. This could relate to >> I thought I heard one about >> new projects. I suppose >> looked at it, >> right? But it got >> But I think we need to >> Sure. But I think we should drop the topic and if we want to have a conversation about this, we should put it on the agenda for the next time. >> Yeah, it is a big it is a big topic and we're trying to talk about it in a philosophical way, you know, but um >> there's no agenda item to cover it. So >> I hear you. I hear you.

196>> You already started down that road. I just kept saying it. >> Maybe it would be since we do have new members though, maybe it would be good just to have like >> a general session kind of. >> But not on the 23rd, >> right? Not on the 23rd and probably not on the 13th either, but >> okay. >> So, planning board tasks, I owe Jasmine a >> item of language to reddraft the design review bylaw and I never sent it to her. >> Lisa, I did talk to Lisa, town council, and we can do a revolving >> design review committee >> roster, but don't we need to go through town meeting to edit it? >> You would. We would have to go through town. I send you that language. >> Yes. >> Today. >>

197Okay. >> Behind schedule. So, obviously, we're not going to put it on the November >> thing, but we could for >> spring. Yeah. Great. >> Awesome. >> Um, that covers that topic unless someone wants to discuss some other task list item. >> Nope. >> Comprehensive plan. Trish and I are going to go to the next meeting and hopefully vote on the draft. >> That's that update. Design review committee. I assume we still don't have one. >> Nope. And and Did they respond to She never responded to my email. >> She never responded to anybody that I that I noticed. >> We have official resignation letters. >> We do. The clerk actually signed it that day. Didn't hear about it or something like that. >> Actually, yeah. The next day, I think. >> Are we at

198a point of posting for filling? >> I don't think we want to do that until we know what this other path might be, >> you know? >> So then no design review committee until spring potentially. >> Potentially. I think this is a time where we need to reformulate. >> I mean, I I will say I have some mixed feelings about that because it's a lot of extra work on us that we could in theory designate and I think this board, this particular new board would benefit from having a design review committee we can go to. >> Well, the other option potentially is that we get an outside thirdparty reviewer for design, which is what happens sometimes in other communities. So, that's an option. or we can have a longer discussion about it in a month,

199say, when we get through some of these other. >> Yeah, I say we have a longer discussion, which >> which is fine. >> Yep. >> But um >> I actually like the idea of a third party review, especially for this project that's coming up because even if you have a new committee, they're going to be new and they're going to >> this one, the YMCA. >> Yeah. Because the town doesn't want to charge the YMCA for a third party design. >> That's the problem. That is that's going to be the problem. We're going to have the town saying no. So again, let's have a deeper conversation about this because I don't think it's going to be easy for us to authorize or require applicants to pay for anything if the town is good. So we

200should have a deeper conversation as to how realistic that is. It's a great idea in theory, but then no one wants to pay for it. >> We look like badasses for >> How expensive are things like that? >> 11,000 was the last one I got for design review. >> All right. Well, let's >> Well, let's revisit that in the next >> Let's leave that for another time. CPC, I think you already Is there anything else you wanted to add? You >> Yeah, they're bringing there's a bunch of warrants coming to the to the uh town. >> Yeah. Purchasing of couple plots of land for the town forest. um a survey for a possible road that well it's a it is an old road that is behind like part of a forest and part of like

201the back of people's houses and they're trying to figure out where exactly it is. Um the YMCA and I think a softball field improvement thing those are all got approved from us and are coming to the the thing. All right, cool. Metro West Regional, have you done anything with them, people? >> Um, there's a meeting coming up on 23rd. Um, I realized all the emails were going to the Ashlin Mass email ID, which I don't have access to. So, Yolanda just connected with me day before yesterday. So, I'm going to sign up so that I can make it in person or not. I need to figure out my schedule on Wednesday. But, >> so the 23rd will be a double duty for you morning and night. Do you need me to do something so you

202can access your Ashlin? >> So, um, Peter tried, uh, again, I don't know. So, my Ashland mass ID is blocked and I'm not able to open it. >> And, uh, Peter tried couple of times. It wasn't successful. >> We create a new one for you. >> I think we can pop >> if that's helpful. Yeah, because it's probably going into a black hole and I'm not able to access. So Yolanda seems to have sent all the Metro West to that ID and till day before yesterday she didn't realize I was seeing them. >> Oh, >> what is it? >> Oh yes. Would you like >> All right. So um >> pass it around. We're not going to talk about this right now, but um there is uh when we pass the ADU, this is just

203a heads up about what's coming on the 13th, right? >> Yes. November 13th. >> Discuss on the 13th. When we pass the ADU bylaw, I believe in the spring, right? Um Doug um Doug Scott I was going to say Doug Small. Doug Scott um noted an an issue with it and not Yeah. noted an issue with it that he has taken upon himself to work um to have a bylaw that that that negates that situation. Basically, it's putting in I think in the most part it's kind of putting back in the old bylaw, but only for in-law apartments only for where it is a family member. It's not for rent. It's not a stranger. And so, um, and I need to talk to them about that more specifically because I wasn't aware that he was

204going through this process. >> Doug Scott is the building inspector. >> He's the building inspector. Yes. >> So, his confused. So his concern at the at the time um was that okay there's the there's a regulations for an ADU but if someone comes with for looking for a building permit and and this is my explanation without having talked to him so give me a little leeway on it but if someone comes that they're looking to put in an in-law apartment say say within their existing house and it has a bedroom and a kitchenette and a little bathroom and and a door to say hey this is grandma's department. He would not be able to allow that to happen because it's neither in ADU nor is it allowed in in the um >> Did we take

205it out? Was it there before and we removed it or he's adding a brand new section? >> We did. It was in there and it was in-laws were in there and was removed from what I understood. >> Yeah, the in-law apartment was removed and we put in ADU. Right. Because >> because we thought they were one and the same >> because they seem to be one and the same but from his perspective they're not. So for instance, an in-law >> building code differentiates inlaws and AD. >> That's interesting though because I don't Is that his interpretation of that? Because my interpretation of when I was told this in real estate that the ADU did include the in-law. >> I need I need to get to the bottom of this because an an ADU and especially

206the way we have written it, it's it's a housing unit, right? Housing units need two means of egress, right? Any housing unit has two means of egress unless they're sprinklered, I think. Um, but u an in-law apartment could be so in in an ADU has a lockable door that the two people in the two houses can't go into each other's units, right? But they have two means of egress out if there's a fire in their unit, right? An in-law apartment in in what Doug thinks I think he sees is that you portion off a a portion of your house for for grandma, right? >> With her own entrance, >> right? With her own entrance. But for her to but but she's still a part of the house. So it only has one means of egress.

207So there's no lockable door like >> and you wouldn't see this because this isn't there's no mass general laws on in-laws. There's only mass general laws on ADUs. >> Isn't it just another room? >> Building code is where the difference is. Building code differentiates between ADUs and in-laws. But without including the in-law, there's no way for our building commissioner to allow you an in-law because we can't grant use variances. >> Yes, it's a little it's a little tricky because to to get a sense of it about but anyway, I just wanted to tell you that it was coming and um I didn't I wasn't aware of it either. So, it's a little bit, you know, coming on us all of a sudden, but we we we're just going to need to look at it and

208address it as do some research and address it as a board. Um, unfortunately at this point I don't think it's changeable. Um, but so let's get to an understanding of of the issue before we, you know, um, go too far down that. Okay. So that's that. Um, do we need to do any updates on 40? Do you have any on tonight? Unless you have an update. >> Well, if assuming that 10 to 60 Maine, 61 Waverly, and 55 West Union all are approved and counting the Arbella, which was already approved but is in litigation. If we count all of those, if they are approved, the housing the subsidized housing inventory goes up to 18%. So even once our 20 um 30 census data comes back, the likelihood that we're above 10% SHI is still very

209good. Now the issue is our housing production plan is set to expire this May. If your housing production plan expires, you lose your um safe harbor. So we are contracting a service right now to update our housing production plan to get it approved before it expires in May. And part of that housing production plan needs to be smart plans to keep us in that 10 over 10% affordable compliance so that way we don't become reactive to 40bs again. And then we can plan for them intelligently as builders come in. We can say no, we need this many units to be affordable to re to maintain our compliance. And then it's also within our purview if we want it to be 80% AMI, 40% AMI, we're no longer at the mercy of the state and the

210developer. all within the town as long as we stay above 10% and that law doesn't change. >> All right. Well, thank you. That was a good update. I appreciate it. >> The Arbella also, by the way, is still still lower. >> Yeah. So, we don't know where that 18% >> it could get dropped on us at any point. So, >> yeah. So, um Okay. >> Did they are they I don't know if I can ask this. Is that part of the traffic plan? Dearbella, >> I think >> they are taking it and we did ask them to take into consideration Sirrus. So for YMCA and 55 West Union, we said please take into consideration 55 West Union and YMCA for both projects, the Sirrus apartment, the Arbella, um the MBTA station and the Dunkin Donuts

211and the dog park. >> Is aren't they also changing the MBTA? Like >> the train schedules are going to update to be every half hour in 2027 is the plan. And speaking of MBTA, our uh bylaw, yes, got approved. So, >> what are the next steps? >> Yes, we're all set with it. It's that's it. It's approved and it just gets incorporated into the E code. >> So, there's no zoning changes that happens. >> They'll update the zoning map to incorporate where the overlay is, but >> all right. >> But I haven't heard of a single I've only heard of one community so far where developer took advantage of the MBTA. I haven't heard of any other >> developers. We basically already >> Yeah. >> Um, September 11th minutes look good to me. >> I

212have a few things. Um, line 43 and 44. Um, I'm sure Miss Ms. Kinsman did not make a motion and also second the motion herself. >> So, I don't know who seconded the motion, but um, >> yeah. 4344. Brandy is making a motion and also seconding the motion. So I don't know what the answer is. >> Um >> how do we fix that? >> You can look at the >> I have to listen to the minute. Yeah, listen to the recording. >> Um or just say and someone seconded. I don't know. >> Motion was made and seconded. Yeah. On line 89, um, it says, "Miss Kendall stated there was an email received regarding appointing a member to the I think there were multiple emails. I remember them being multiple emails." So, put that. And then,

213um, there was one more. Oh, um, on line 246, there's just, um, the very end of that paragraph on 246, must be used within three years and are I don't know what that's supposed to be. I would just take off the end and R and then I'm good. >> Okay. So, I'll make a motion to approve the September 11th minutes with the changes Trisha noted. >> Everyone else good with that? >> Yep. >> Okay. And a roll call vote. >> Wank. >> Anna Tesmani. >> I pilot I. >> I. >> And Trisha Kendall I. So, um, next meeting obviously is on the 23rd with the select board and with the YMCA. We'll try to keep everything else out of it if at all humanly possible. Um, otherwise, if there's nothing else, >> I'll make a

214motion to close. >> Wait a minute. He has >> just I just want to know like how long is that select board piece going to be like going over this comprehensive plan? I'm just imagining it not being a short >> I don't think it will be very short >> because there's going to be discussion about the implementation committee voting hard to could be 45 minutes an hour could be long >> still starting at the same time. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Do you want to try and see if we can start it an hour earlier? >> I don't know. >> No. Yeah. >> I'm I'm already running late. >> Yeah. I think it's I mean I would not start changing meetings unless we start changing all of them. Bigger conversation. >> I think just we

215hold out um plan to hold out an hour for the YMCA. Um though they might be starting quite late. >> I would plan at least an hour for comp plan. >> Yeah. And that's why I'm saying at least an hour for comp plan. But >> it's pretty reasonable. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know if it was like a pres presentation and we're done or like was there discussion and >> so you're definitely allowed discussion. So, I am going to be looking at that meeting that there's I'm not unless there's something big. I'm not doing a clerk's report. I'm not allowing public comment. Those are that's going to happen to the only two things we're going to focus on. There's two things and we won't have reports at the end unless it's something essential and that's

216what we're going to do. Okay. Focus. All right. >> I'll make a motion to close our meeting at 10:03 p.m. >> Second that. >> And roll call vote >> I got votes here. I I'm about to see now >> and Trisha can die. All right, over and out.