001Next item is Tennessee 2030 data driven goals for Tennessee. Courtney Bale from SCORE. All right. Well, thank you so much to the board for inviting us to come speak about this new coalition that SCORE is leading around setting some datadriven goals for our state moving forward. So, I know uh my colleague Mary Cypress Mets had the opportunity to come speak to the board about six months ago about another collective um impact project we've been working on, our impact credentials framework to try to better capture how we're connecting students to economic opportunity. And this is really a practical application um of that and an opportunity for us to set a new vision as a state. So why did we start exploring this goal setting uh project? Uh we know first off that too few Tennessans are
002finding paths to economic success and we also know that fortunately we have a strong track record as a state of aligning around collective goals and making significant progress. Um so some folks in this room may remember in 2011 when we set the goal to be the fastest improving state on NAPE and we met that goal. Uh we've also had a collective goal around post-secondary attainment the drive to 55 and while we didn't meet that goal we made tremendous progress toward it. So we know that we have a history of kind of linking arms and working collectively to drive forward action. We also know fortunately that there's really clear research and data on how we can measure and even predict student success. And we also know that rather than having one singular goal, having a longitudinal
003look uh allows partners at all points in the continuum to find a place to connect to push forward work for Tennessee students. And we also saw this as a real opportunity to work together to cast a bold new vision that prepares Tennessee students for success. So when we're talking about progress year-over-year, we're anchoring to a bigger picture. And so when we first started thinking about this project, the first thing we did was go through a stakeholder engagement process. And I I know two of the first folks we talked to were um Sarah and Michael at the state board around if we were going to set a series of goals for the state, where would we anchor them? What would we look at knowing that there are a plethora of different areas we could have um
004looked at? And what we heard from folks was this felt like an important role that SCORE could play to set ambitious goals across different sectors that it would be something that wouldn't make sense for a single agency to own alone and so that it really would need to be a collective impact um uh project. We also felt uh we also heard that it felt like our state was lacking a north star. We had had goals in the past but we didn't have anything currently we were driving toward as a state. And we also heard interest from partners in aligning strategic plans and future dashboards reports to the Tennessee uh 2030 goals. I know we had lots of conversations with Dr. Gentile, our partners at TBR, at TDOE about a a desire to have a more
005cohesive vision for the state and then also just a lot of excitement about the opportunity to work collectively together. And so where that brought us was to these Tennessee 2030 goals that really aimed to set a shared vision for student success across the entire education continuum, including really ambitious goals for growth across key metrics that have been shown to be predictive of students long-term success. As I mentioned, we were hoping to make an uh an actionable application of the credential impact framework that was also collectively conceived um to show what steps would a student need to take on their way to earning a credential that is going to enable economic independence and chart a clear path for making sure students are on track across their experience. So the hope was to really blur the lines
006between sectors, between different transition points in a student's educational career and build really shared accountability for student outcomes. So where that landed us was on this key metrics framework. So you'll see um the yellow bar in the middle are the metrics that we anchored on. So again, we could have anchored on a number of different metrics, but um as Dr. Leard was sharing uh previously, there's a ton of evidence that whether or not students are proficient in third grade reading is very predictive of their later success. Um we know that grade seven math. Um we've had some questions about why we anchored on grade seven versus uh grade eight. In Tennessee, grade seven is the last grade where the majority of students are on the same pathway before folks may start peeling off to take
007algebra 1 or integrated math at an earlier level. Some students do do that in seventh grade. Um but the majority are still on that same pathway. um collegegoing on time uh post-secary completion and I'll talk a little bit about our aspirations for quality being included in that and then quality credential attainment and you'll see on the right our anchor aspiration I think whenever you start talking about goals in a numerical sense there is a tendency or a desire for folks to say why would you not set a goal of 100%. And obviously we want all students to read and write proficiently, to be able to do math, to be able to live choicefilled lives, but we wanted to have very datadriven realistic but ambitious goals that we could work toward. And so these are sort
008of a stake in the ground. And we also know, as I mentioned, these metrics are not inclusive. There are a lot of things that you look at before and after these, a lot of things that could be included. So, I've listed just a few of the leading indicators that as we talked to partners um felt like other important pieces of the puzzle that if you were a community uh member working to support these goals and you didn't have a direct impact on grade three ELA, there are other other areas you could look at and other leading indicators that could let you know whether or not students are on track before they reach that metric. And so as we started thinking about setting these goals, uh we kind of went through a thought experiment as a
009team of what would it look like if just one more student in every classroom across the state reached proficiency in these goals each year and we maintained that pace of growth until 2030? Where would that land us? Um and what we saw is that that led to pretty tremendous growth. And so that is what led us to set these goals where they are at. So again, looking at 2024 data and I know you all just had the opportunity to hear Dr. Leard and his team share about our TCAP uh results. So those are not captured in this the TCAP results that came out the previous uh just last month, but we wanted to set a path for if we were to meet this pace based on where we were in 2024, where would we get
010to? And so you can see that just one more student per classroom every year would get us to 71% proficiency in ELA by 2030, which would be a record for the state and the country. In seventh grade math, if we applied that same methodology, we would get to 58% of students reaching proficiency by 2030. uh in post-secary, if we were able to support one additional high school senior in every classroom across the state uh to pursue a post-secary pathway, uh we would get to a 77% collegegoing rate. And you can see in the in the text there, we are hopeful that eventually this could be a more inclusive measure that doesn't just include typical post-secary going, but could also recognize apprenticeships, military enlistment, other viable pathways that lead to economic success for students. But we
011just don't have the data right now to to have a cohesive measure there. And then uh completion, if we were to get one more student across the finish line, we would get to a completion rate of 64%. And you'll see that shaded light purple reg uh region there. Uh our aspiration is that 75% of those credentials would be um high value credentials on our impact credentials framework. So credentials that are in high demand that uh res have a good job outlook uh that result in a strong wage uh that could potentially be stackable. But we know that that's not the full picture of student success. Uh we know that unfortunately we have a lot of youth who are disconnected. Nearly one in six young people ages 16 to 24 are disconnected from both education and
012the workforce. We know that some students get interrupted. In 2021, for example, 64,000 high school graduates completed uh the Tennessee Promise requirements, but 50% of them never enrolled in post-secary education. And we know from data that if students don't seamlessly enroll in a post-secary opportunity, they are unlikely to get back on that track. We also know that we're facing undermployment. So nearly half of Tennessans are undermployed based on their level of education. and Tennessee has one of the lowest workforce participation rates in the country. We know that our attainment still lags workforce needs. Despite the concerted effort we have made as a state to improve our overall level of attainment, nearly half of Tennessans hold a post-secary credential and we know that twothirds of jobs will require one by 2031. So, as a state, we
013must work urgently and collectively to cast a more expansive vision and goals that reflect our full understanding of what contributes to student success. Because we know when students excel in the classroom, they emerge prepared to find success in college, in career, and in life. Um, and I'll share just a portion of a quote from a director of schools in Sullivan County, um, which is one of the districts that signed on to be a Tennessee 2030 partner. He said, 'Imag what can happen if we work together to remove barriers and ensure more students find success. It's time to turn the aspirations we have for our students and that they have for themselves into reality. I want to quickly preview uh sort of the next phase of this work which will be local data dashboards that we
014hope to launch later this fall. And I will say huge thanks to our partners at Tekk who are doing some special cuts of data for us that we really appreciate. um and TDOE for always having great data downloads that that we're able to access and leverage. Um but we started thinking about at the local level, what if we anchored on that same ambitious one student per classroom pace of growth, taking into consideration where each district is starting. So you can imagine that some districts might lose ground in a year. Maybe their student needs changed. Maybe they had a high rate of teacher turnover. Maybe they experienced some other type of disruption. But what if instead of losing hope, we rallied around them to ensure that they got back on that ambitious pace of one more
015student per classroom per year? And this is uh anonymized, but this is an actual Tennessee district. So, you can see a district that saw a pretty significant decrease. But if they were to get back on that pace of one more student per classroom per year, they could still reach 61.7%, this is a third grade ELA, uh, proficiency by 2030. And then on the other side of the coin, you can imagine that some districts might surpass that one student per classroom pace, which is obviously what we aspire to. But what if it instead of expecting them to let up, we supported them to maintain that sense of urgency and stay on a solid upward trajectory of one more student or more each year. What would we see there? And this is again another Tennessee district who
016saw a pretty big jump in third grade ELA. And you can see if they were able to maintain a one more one student per classroom pace until uh 2030, they would reach 77% proficiency, which is truly remarkable. And so I I say that for folks like Dr. Maxwell in the room who may remember AMOs, things like that. What we did not want the perception to be is that score is setting goals for districts of what they should achieve. And we know that based on when those years uh when that data was anchored, that may really change your ability to meet those expectations. And so we felt like uh by meeting each district where they are each year, setting a clear vision for an achievable uh but ambitious pace of change and then supporting them to
017meet that pace. The statewide impact would be huge. So our hope would be that we keep these static state level goals and then each year we will update the local dashboards with growth projections for districts if they're able to meet that pace. Um, and I'll read one more just a excerpt of a quote um from Tara Scarlet um who shared, "Achieving the Tennessee 2030 goals around reading, math, and post-secary enrollment and completion is critical to propelling our state forward and ensuring each student reaches their full potential. So that really is the intent of it. Um, and then as I mentioned the this is really a coalition effort. So we already have nearly 50 districts, higher education institutions, schools, and community advocacy organizations who have signed on as official Tennessee 2030 partners and are actively championing
018these goals. Um, and the number of partners continues to grow. So you can see a full list of partners on the um Tennessee 2030 website, tn2030.org. Um, and if any folks are interested in learning more about what it means to be a partner or signing on, we would love to talk more. >> Would love to welcome questions. Thank you very much, Miss Bale. Questions for Miss Bale. >> Mr. Chairman, >> Mr. Melanau, >> thank you. >> Um, I I'll try to be very direct with this question. Yeah, >> it sounds like I take this I I can I perceive from this presentation that um there's agreement around, >> hey, we want everybody to improve. >> Um, you and your team have projected, hey, this is where we could go with this. Uh, join us in
019that effort. uh what is it exactly in one minute what is it exactly that you plan to do to get there? I'm I hear a lot of like energy and excitement about it but like what what are the discipline strategies and operative execution elements of that plan? >> Yeah, I mean I think that's going to vary from community to community based on what their specific needs are and that's why we're hoping to build a coalition of partners who are sharing ideas and strategies. I think as a state level organization we'll continue to advocate for the strategies that we know research has shown uh to lead students to greater success. So in early literacy, having high quality instructional materials in place, systematic phonics instruction, um high dosage tutoring, instructional coherence, those are issues we'll continue to
020champion. Uh we're doing a lot of research as an organization around math and what we need to do to continue the amazing uh pace of change we've had, positive pace of change we've seen in math, how we can codify some of those practices. Um we're doing a lot of work about thinking about pathways for students and how we can make those feel more connected and are doing deep partnership work with um Christiey's team at TDOE to think about how we can better connect pathways to careers so students are able to succeed. Uh but I think ultimately uh we will hope to track data over time, highlight bright spots when we see them at both the school and district level of districts that are exceeding expectations, exceeding that pace. So we know the places that we
021can go to to learn. >> Can can I follow on to your question, Mr. Molinar? >> Go ahead. >> Because I had one that was very similar to that. >> Yeah. >> I I think what you're proposing is an excellent way, like you say, to track to make aware. You know, you think of one person in a classroom. I I like that concept. That seems easy to do. But then when you think of, you know, maybe there's 20 people in a classroom, one in classroom, that's 5%. So you go back to what Dr. Larard was saying, that's a 5% increase. But the key is how do you get there? And you talk about long-term success. How do you define long-term success? Now, this board's mission is prepare students for post-secondary success. Is that is that
022what you do? Is long-term success is that they they end up in the workplace with a career or when you talk about how do you define long-term success? >> Yeah, I think for us we say success in college, career, and life. So we want students to be able to live choicefilled lives where they are able to take the path that's best suited to their interests and needs but also results in a living wage a family sustaining wage and an ability for them to be productive members of society. So I think whether that path is directly uh into post-secary to pursue an additional degree or credential um which for a lot of students is the right pathway or whether that's a pathway into the military or a pathway directly into the workplace but with the information
023about what their long-term earnings could be, what their potential for additional um job growth would be. So I think it's around in equipping students with the ability to make choices that will result in a life of economic independence. >> So So I agree. I think that's what we ought to do is look at the end point. And going back to Mr. Mullen's question, how do you how do you get there? So is that something where we would look at our curriculum to see if our curriculum is preparing those students for for that success that that type of thing that you're proposing? >> Yeah, I mean it's a great question. And I think it's something we're doing a lot of thinking about as an organization of how we can analyze labor market data, labor market needs
024to see where are the high demand career pathways that have a steady job outlook so that students are not just taking the next step that they'll stay stagnant for 40 years, but that there's an opportunity for them to continue stacking on additional credentials um growing in their career. So, I think making that information connect from the workforce to post-secary and then even down to high school is the work that we're um working a lot with Christiey's team around. How can you define those pathways better in high school? How can you help students when they're thinking about post-secary also think about career? Um I often think about my own high school experience. Um and I was a public public school educated. I was always a high achiever. Um I went into college not knowing what I
025wanted to do. Um, I I felt like I had plenty of time to explore and I remember having a little panic attack after my first semester of being like, "Oh my goodness, I'm supposed to know what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life." And so I think uh hope hopefully building a system where students who are currently in high school are going into their next steps, whatever those may be, whether that's directly into the job market, into the military, into post-secary with a vision for where they want to land and what their options are. and that our advising is increasingly attending to uh to that and and helping them to see those connections. >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I don't think we should lose that site. >> Yeah. >>
026That we want to look at each student and see what helps them get to their pathway. >> Agree, >> Mr. Chair. Mr. Holt, then Mr. Mullen or M. Yeah, >> you still have want to go back. >> Okay, Mr. Mullen, go ahead. >> I'll make Yeah, just one quick comment. Um so just looking at your website uh it looks like there's a lot of people who agree with the objective um a lot of organizations um who have who are steeped in this field and I think you got it looks like you got tremendous support for the the idea and concept. I'm not seeing a lot of school districts that have signed up at this point. Um so and I'm not I'm not asking this or saying this in a in a critical sense. I'm trying
027to create some visibility around what you're doing. >> Yeah. If I'm a superintendent or if I'm someone who's making decisions around whether or not we choose to engage in this or or sign up on this, what what is the compelling argument that I do? So, >> yeah, that's a great question. So, I will say we have not focused as much on recruiting individual districts. Um, we worked with the Tennessee Organization of School Superintendent, so their membership organization, and were able to present to their executive committee and they signed on as a partner. Um and so uh as an individual district, what we would hope is that we could provide um additional data analysis that may be specific to what you need. We've had some partners ask us, hey, if we wanted to project this out
028at the school level, could you support us to do that? If we wanted to look at comparisons, uh we had a lot of back and forth as we talked to folks in iterating around what the local dashboards would look like. A lot of districts were like, I would love to be able to compare my district to another one. And a lot of people were like, I would definitely not like to be able to do that or would not like people to be able to do that. So I think our hope is we would be able to provide some more customized bespoke data analysis for them. Um and help them think about strategies, connect them to to resources that could make progress toward the goals. >> Yep. >> Mr. Holt, >> thank you. So we as
029a state board are um undertaking our own strategic planning process and so your timing presenting to us is is very appropriate. Um, and as I look at the uh TN 2030 key metrics, I think those line up pretty well with our strategic plan and what we have been talking about. I just wanted to sort of put a pin for everyone that you know in the spirit of all rowing together that as we are refining our own master plan that we are aligning with the work that score and others are doing um so that we don't have um you know aspirations that are not all lined up together and and are across purposes. So, I I'm I'm not sure um where the best way to kind of make sure that we're lined up as as score
030is moving forward and as we're moving forward, but I just want to invite that collaboration so that we ensure that that we're doing that. >> Yeah, thank you for that. >> I'll add on to that. Uh I strongly agree with that, but we're going to hear in a second from TEKC their strategic plan here. >> TDOE has their uh plans. Uh, I've long been a proponent that we align be sure that our plans are well aligned and work together closely to be sure that when we put our strategic plan together and we work with TDOE and we work with TUCK and other organizations to make sure that we're all in alignment. >> Mr. Chair. Yes, Mr. Jensen. A question on the the communications. >> Yeah. Um, I had involvement probably 10 years ago with East
031High School when they started a STEM school and one of the real challenges we had and at a granular level was getting the parents to understand the opportunity. >> Yeah. I was recently at the Germantown uh superintendent leadership and they were saying parents are now calling and saying what are you doing on career and technical education and that's in a in a community that uh would probably not be thought of as a place where CTE is going to be important but the parents are asking about it and I think when we look at at University of Tennessee I don't know what the entrance for the ACT is there but I suspect it's mid 20s. Uh University of Memphis has changed theirs to 21. And so there it seems like we have got a enlarging >>
032opportunity. We could call it a gap >> with kids in postsecary and one of the things that I have felt strongly about is that we have to start with the parents and the children >> in the sixth seventh eighth grade and that surprises people when you tell them but if if we don't communicate and this is my question >> is from a communication marketing whatever word what do y'all doing to get that message down into parents and their children and at what level and at what age because I think you've got to build that into their thinking now, not in the 11th grade. Yeah. You know, so I'm just curious about how that's being addressed and I'm sure you're all are thinking about it, but I'd appreciate hearing something on that. >> Yeah, thank you
033for that question. And I think that's a really great point and I think we have heard traditionally I'm excited to hear that there's been positive um feelings around CTE and and requests for it from parents because I think what we often hear is the opposite of parents who have kind of an antiquated vision of what CTE education is or what advanced manufacturing is and they picture kids like dirty in a plant floor and they don't understand it's actually know they're programming the robot that's putting the tool on and um so I I'm glad to hear that there are some changing perceptions around that. I think that is definitely work that we're thinking through in partnership with TDOE around those high school pathways. How are we improving advising so that not only students but their families
034are getting um better information about career pathways and how schools are working to meet those. I think TDOE is also doing some really innovative thinking about how you better define pathways of study in high school around dual enrollment. specifically, we have a really robust CTE programs of study that are very well- definfined, but how do you do that for something that may not be a CTE course? And then how are you giving information to students and families as they as they think about that? I think we've also done some thinking around how we could improve work-based learning offerings. And I think thinking about parent externships could be an interesting thought. I know we've done some thinking as an organization around teacher externships and how do you get educators into some of these um high demand
035career um places to see what it's like to actually do that job because we know that's often who students are going to for advisement is not necessarily their high school counselor but their favorite teacher someone that they respect in the school building. So how do we get more folks to have that? So I think including parents in the conversation about students careers. Uh I know as a result of the innovative school models grants that TDOE did three years ago now. Um a lot of districts did invest in both career counselors and also career interest inventories. And so I think improving how we're sharing that information with families because students are often starting doing those career interest inventories when they're in middle school and starting those conversations earlier. Those are a few thoughts that I would
036have, but I think that's a really good push for making sure that we're including families in the >> follow up if I may. So when you look at >> the parents will hear about it if it's going well. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean that's the best message is when there's a program and I think of the University of Memphis, their high school, they got like 1,500 or 2,000 people on the waiting list to get into that high school into that into that school. Yeah. Well, there's something going on there that's causing parents to say, "I want my child there." >> Yeah. >> And so, part of it is getting the programs there, getting them robust, making them work. But I think there's also a piece missing in the message about the viability or the
037desiraability of postsecary that's other than something of four-year college. I'm sorry to pick on four-year colleges, but I just see, you know, a uh a one of the numbers we saw was 50% of the kid. Well, that we got 50% that we've not done a good service to. Yeah. >> And that for a long time in Memphis at least, it was everybody every day collegebound. Well, that's just that's not true. >> It never was true. >> Yeah. And maybe that's aspirational, but it doesn't deal with the reality of what our kids and I'm glad we're moving in this direction, but it just still seems to be there's messaging that's necessary to get to enough people to understand this is the pathway for the future. Yeah. >> So that's appreciate what y'all are doing. >> Vice
038Chair Cobins, >> thank you. Uh thank you and uh the score team for your work on this. Um, I participated in the quality quality credentials framework process with Mr. Gentile um over about a six-month period and um I definitely see this as an extension of of that work or dovetales. Uh couple of points. One, um this framework to me is similar to how we proposed standards. So, these are basically standards and expectations of what we want outcomes to be for our students. Um, and how that happens in Memphis and Shelby County, how that happens in Knoxville or Chattanooga or Nashville may look different, >> right? similar to how districts take the standards and incorporate their curriculum um appropriately for their particular um student population. So the organizing principle around having these standards and expectations of
039outcomes I think is really important because across all of these vast and large institutions we all have our strategic plans but we really at the end of the day are all working towards that same goal of uh positive student outcomes. Second, um, couple of years ago, we had a presentation by the Department of Labor where they talked about the workforce particip participation rate and I think the number was that 500,000 Tennessans uh, who are work eligible are not participating. >> And I've heard that, you know, several times in years since. And um two things come to mind with that issue. One is how do we stem that tide? >> Okay, so that's first and foremost. How do we, you know, keep more people from falling into that um that river? And so I see this
040as a part of that where, you know, we're making a commitment that you will not leave our learning environment with no options. >> Yeah. At minimum, you'll have a credential that allows you to go out into the world and pursue your objectives. Now, there's another piece of that 500,000. There's a whole lot more work that has to be done uh to deal with the f with that population in and of themselves. And I know this doesn't necessarily try to do that, but you know, as you've talked about this and presented this, those things come to mind for me. And I think it's great for us all to be on the same page, singing from the same hymn book and pushing towards the same outcomes and um working those into our strategic plans which then sends
041a stronger message across the state uh to the partner organizations who'll be doing the work, you know, on the ground level. So, thank you all for your hard work and give my best to David and thank you for serving on that committee. I know that was a time commitment. We really appreciate your contributions. >> Thank you. Dr. Morrison, >> I just can't uh miss the opportunity because I hear Mike Edwards like echoing in the back of my head right now because one of the things I appreciate so much about this is how student centered truly the metrics are. I mean I think you know all hopefully districts and state boards and agencies are thinking about how we track progress and you know don't lose sight of like you know we want to continue to see
042that trend but I think when you put it in terms of students then the percentages become real and and you also see that it is doable you know one student in every classroom you think about teachers if I'm a district leader like taking this I love the idea that y'all are going to have local dashboards because I think again the energy behind this hopefully will continue if people really take it and to your point like make it theirs and then connect about the strategies and the things that are working, the bright spots. I mean, you all do an excellent job at SCORE of getting curious about where we see really great success and what's happening there and just getting on the ground to understand and connect people to those those places of real progress. U
043but at its core, I just really love that it's about like one student in every classroom. I think that makes it real. It also makes it like become possible when you see that this like that number is one student in every classroom. Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. And I appreciate that like getting curious that that is something that that's always interesting to us when data comes out. We're looking for new ways to cut it and to find surprises. And I don't think this district would mind because their results were wonderful. Uh but the district that had the big jump was Henry County. And that was kind of surprising to us. I don't I'm I'm like I want to follow up with them and see what are you doing like why did your kids see this
044huge jump in third grade ELA? Because something they're doing is working. And so it feels like a shared opportunity for us to to learn from the good work that's happening in the field. I think to Dr. Maxwell's earlier point, like this is a journey that we've been on as a state for a long time. We've had really great success. We've been touted as a national leader and we also know that 40% of kids reading is not okay. And so, um, hoping that this will help us to find the bright spots, figure out what they're doing, and replicate those good practices. >> Thank you. >> I had one more >> question come in. U we've got our folks here everybody saying we're doing a strategic plan and that's wonderful and I look forward to it and
045I just want to make sure we've got AI in in the mix of really thinking about that >> because it's coming fast. Mr. Vice Chairman Cobbins and I've watched over the last 10 months in our region this just massive influx of job opportunities and growth in that area and I just that's one part of it but the other part is how it's going to dramatically shift the way we learn the way we teach and I don't have all the answers but if we're doing strategic plans then that needs to be somewhere in the mix because it's coming and it's coming really fast. Yeah, I appreciate the board has been really forward thinking and how to incorporate that AI across subject areas and um agree it's a it's it feels like every day there's a new
046advance that that blows my mind. So agree with that wholeheartedly. >> Any other comments? >> Echo Mr. Jensen's comment and I I feel like a lot of times with with this group that when we talk about AI it shifts to implementation in the classroom how it can make teachers more efficient proper uses with students which is very very important um but then also like what the jobs of the future are going to be and then how we should if if we are looking forward to what um you said Mr. chairman about, you know, making sure that all students have those post-secondary opportunities, trying our best to look forward and using all the experts that we can tap into to to what are those going to be in however many years. And we may not be
047able to predict it, but but that we're actively trying to do that so that they don't get there and they've got, you know, the credentials and the jobs of for for the jobs of 2025 instead of for 2020 2030 and 35 and so forth. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Thank you. Thank you so much, Miss Bill.