001Good evening and welcome to the Ashlin Planning Board meeting of Thursday, April 10th. I'll call the meeting to order at 7:19. And a reminder to everyone that the meeting is being broadcast and recorded. First on our agenda tonight is the clerk's report. Kate, thank you, Madam Chair. We received um correspondence from two people. One was multiple that was um handled response by the town planner about a pre preliminary subdivision. Another one was actually to I received it through comprehensive plan but it went to the town planner. So I feel like among the multiple boards it probably meant to get to us. So um what was that regarding uh the 40B projects? Oh okay. So maybe I don't think Alvo was copied either. So maybe I should get it to Alvo to get it did not
002say planning board, but I think the intent was and that's the only reason I'm bringing it up. Okay. I was going to say I don't recall receiving like that. But no, but since it had multiple boards, so I can send it to Alro to get it out, redistribute it. Y great. Thank you. All right. Next on our agenda is public comments. Um and we are on line as well, right? So, you'll be monitoring that over our big audience. Yes. Thank you. Nice to see you, Mark. Name and address. Mark Sony, 119 Main Street MS. Thank you. Good evening. Um I came from the last two subcommittee copy as a plan committed these things to do. First one was was a little bit shortsighted a little bit if I say but the last one was right
003to work to get things done and to be understand informative of what is going to be for the next time the group gets together. So, I'll not be I want to make sure that I'm well prepared. And I thank Anna and hopefully say your name, Kate, for uh letting me sit in for for both of them. Last night went to the finance committee and they find they financially approved the warrant. What struck me was the three zoning by the bylaws that got put in. They voted to defer it to tell me in the the flood plane, the site committee and the uh ADU the Wellins. My question is those three that's going into the war into the war and going to be talking tell me are those from the the 2010 zoning bylaws or more
004upto-date version. Well, they're all up to date versions because they're in front of they're a warrant for this year. So, but they're all they're all recent things. Well, I guess the the change in date isn't, but that doesn't really affect Well, the flood plane was almost the same as the 2010 bylaw. Yeah, I think that was updated on 2014 last time they updated it. Okay. And the um the dwellin was not in the zone in bylaw at all. That was um what's what's the way I can say this? It was a brand new thing to bring up the first time on this board as a dis a discussion. So that that got put in and the um site plan is an upto-date better wording from the old 214 to up to date. And what they
005put into the warrant book for the for the town meeting is every single thing that is in there, all the um sections, paragraphs, and everything into the the warrant book or the town meeting. So I'm asking where all that information come from if it wasn't in the 214 bylaws. I'm I'm not sure of your question, but the warrants as went through, one of them was a very s small word change. I assume you don't mean that one. The other two, most of that wording came from the state as as different updates were requested and a new regulation on ADUs was made. And so they are um wordier, I guess, bylaws that we're adding in um due to the information we received from the state. Does that make sense? So that means the um the sections
006was state sections not zone and bylaw sections. Well they are our zoning bylaw sections but they are in reaction to first of all the au um law by the state and the updates by the state or is it federal federal federal updates uh for the flood planes. So because of those things happening outside of Ashland, Ashland needed to update our bylaws, but they are our bylaws. Okay. Go the the um the three the three ones laws that in there is about almost eight pages long. That sounds about right. Yeah. So I was kind of where did all that information come from? Maybe it did come from the 2014. So I wanted to ask that question here to see how it got worded separate. Most of it came a lot of it came from the state
007but there were also parts from the older bylaws that we had um that got integrated into the new bylaws. And again about the comprehensive plan is a meeting regular big board big board meeting soon. Is there a date? I think that's next Thursday. We actually haven't gotten the agenda yet, but I believe it's going to be at the library. We the last few. So, library next Thursday at 7 typical. So, just an update. So, Samantha Riley, who is the sustainability manager or coordinator, um she will be helping out with that or so she's be working. I know that she met today with Michael and he's working on drafting the agenda and kind of starting all the logistics moving forward. She will be the point person for those pieces of it. So it will be posted
008on town website. Probably it will be the library. We don't know. Okay. And once the plan is done, I'm still going forward with the all the committees being together for stronger policies to help this town go forward. Thank you. No comments online. Okay, no comments online. I don't see anyone else online. So, we will end public comment and go into public hearings. The first one on our agenda is 240 to 260 Pleasant Street. This is the Metro West facilities for the new uh parking and soccer fields. And you just have an update for us on that? So they were scheduled to go in front of the design review last on the 1st, April 1st, but we had a technical issue. So we were not able to start the meeting. Uh due to that they requested
009to just move an extra to move to the next planning board meeting as they will be in front of the design review committee this upcoming Tuesday. Um and then they will coming back because they figure they didn't have any updates really to bring to the board. So after that meeting they will be coming back. So, I'm sorry. And you said they're they're going design review committee on what date? The 14th. The 15th. The 15th. Tuesday the 15th. Okay. So, um um I have a question. Did we ever get a memo to the design review? We did. Okay. We didn't see that. Okay. It's I mean we it's fine the way it's been handled, but typically at the turnaround, we've seen the board seen it that we can uh we can forward that on. It's been
010a little crazy. my to-do list is exceptionally long. Um but yeah, we can forward that off to you. But they did receive that. Um so, um today, all we'll be doing is unless somebody has any questions like that, we will just continue that hearing to April 24th and then I make make a motion, please. I'll make a motion to continue the 240 260 Pleasant Street Metro West Facilities LLC hearing for the site plan review design plan review and site alternation special permit to April 24th, 2025. Second that call vote. Anna Tesmani I, Katherine Tziki, and Trisha Kendall. That will be on the 24th. Um, next is the House Street Scenic Road. [Music] Um this was the um the annual uh circuit clearing of the trees. I think we all got the draft of that. Um
011was there any questions on the draft? No changes for me. Everybody's nodding no. So I'll make a motion to approve that letter as is. Second and a roll coat. Tesmanitzki I. Kathy and Trisha Kendall I. So we'll need to Was that just me signing that? Yes. Is that Did we talk about that? I don't remember. We did. Okay. I used the draft from or the sample from last time. Okay. I'll take care of that. Making a note here. Next on our agenda is 100 Chestnut Street, the Asher Development. This was um the approval letter memo um for the sign um that we talked about um at the last meeting that would list the various businesses, the tenant directory sign listing the v various businesses at the entrance of 91 to 100 Chestnut Street, which I
012believe is the the main entrance. Um I think that letter also went out to the board. Is that in the It is. It's in the packet. I had no changes. Um I didn't I didn't get a chance to send it in, but we've changed the coding, which I think is good. So AB for abstain. There is no A on the coding and I have an A on my name. Oh, I see. I thought I was an AB. Yep. I thought I thought I if you looked at below um Oh, so we're just going to change Kates to AB AB or keep it on an A. I They should match. You know, I was uh I had changed it to an A for absent and an X for not present. So the B was I didn't
013know about that until right now because I had looked at it before. It's not absent, it's abstain, though. Abstain. Sorry, just so you don't but AB for an abstain and an X for an AB absence, right? Which before they both were A's. So, but the AB must have come out. Is that more uh yeah, I don't know. There was just some some back and forth about something, but yeah, happy to. So, I'll make a motion to approve that letter as drafted with the AB change for Kate. Right. Very efficient. Sounds good. I wasn't present on that. Um, you're noted as an ex absent. Yeah. And again, also I guess the page changes because I signed this. You just don't sign. I think so. So I'll again make a motion to approve it as is with
014the AB change. Second. And a roll call vote. So you don't know if you can Oh, if you can vote. Oh, that's right. You skip it. So I can vote. I abstained on that, but that doesn't mean I'm abstaining from voting on the letter, I guess. So, Katherine Dersikai, Anna Tesmani, I and Trisha Kendall I. So, excuse me. Okay. So, we will be signing that after. I have the just the pages. Is it just one copy or is it multiple copies? For this, it's three copies. We can always leave one on the town cleric. Yep. Oh, whatever. Yeah, we can just pass them down. Uh, no, he's on the last page, so I can just update it the other way. Okay. Y I'm good. popping these right on you. Not like what I'm doing. been
015had a very busy week I assume. Thank you. Okay. So, that is the public hearing section. Uh, item I guess the other one was too. Okay. Item six on our agenda is 60 Waverly Street, the comprehensive letter um that we want to get to the zoning board of appeals. Was anything done on that Elvall? No. My Okay. I thought I had sent something to you. I received some comments. Yes. Yeah. received the com but I don't not sure if Peter got to it or that anyone got to it. So um so that still needs to be done. I it's not a I you know we talked to John Truff last um week he said it wasn't a rush. So, um, now that, well, I'm not say that I don't say that think the dust is
016settling, but, um, now that we've gotten through that first week, got some other things taken care of, we'll I'll look at that or we'll look at that again this week on the list. Um, and I guess the easiest way will be if you have any comments, you can put to me and I can kind of like squeeze them all together. Yep. And then from there, we can whoever want to start with this version. Yeah. the format that we had from the last one. Yeah. I mean, so you sent com you sent the document you were working on in the meeting. You sent it to Peter and El Do you have it? Yes, he did. Okay. Do we want to go through it and just see if Deepa has other comment? Like I would Well, in
017the interest of time since we went through this once before, what I would what I would suggest is I know we didn't get to it this week that um Elro and or I take a pass at it, send it back out to the board, and then comments would go to Elro and then comments can go back to Elro. Um that's why we don't. Okay. Just to be efficient. Um, but yeah, I was actually looking at that. I was re-watching that meeting this afternoon, so to kind of remember where we were with it. Um, and figured it had fallen off the mustd do this week because of everything else. So, that's fine. Um, number seven on here is an approval not required plan for Ashlin Sherburn and Frammingham Open Space. And this is kind of interesting
018but a little complicated and you're are you gonna Yes. So I can explain it but so we were planning today to I was planning to bring the miler so it could get signed but there was some questions about the so I think that it's on your binders and you can look in page I think it's the first page. Yeah. So this one is a an a a a grant that Frammingham I think championed and then it's going to come to become a conservation restriction land. Um so but the parcel of land happens to be falling within the three different communities right Firmingham Sherburn and Ashen. So as the process of purchasing the land, what the requirement was is to make an ANR. So you could have a clear idea of what are the boundaries that
019this property is going to be um been purchased and what would the town receive. Um because after that it will move to conservation and then they will work on the conservation restriction. Um so I spoke with the planner of Frammingham who has been the one in charge of leading this. Um, and so when they gave us the ANR, there was two parcels at the bottom that had two different na names of owner comparison to our assessor's map. And so we wanted to make sure that that was correct. So we did a title search, we sent it back to our assessors and the town council and they came back saying that the one that we had on the assessors was correct. So we sent back that information to Cirmingham. So I think now they just want
020to double check on that and if it's correct on their end as well they can fix the ANR and next meeting that we bring it it will be clear but that was just kind of like the back and forth. Now when I talked about it with Peter we thought that the I thought he was telling me that the current assessor's map was incorrect. Is that was that um they did they I think after doing the title search they actually found that the assessor map was correct. Okay. And that there was an incomplete deed on some point. So when the surveyor was looking at it they found a document that didn't connect to the next couple of years and so that's when they kind of like lost and didn't know what was happening there. So that's
021why they were like okay the assessor's map of Ashdan shows this owner but we only see a up to this time. So now that town council has done their research, they're drafting a memo to send it back to the Framingham planning department so they can make sure that that is cross referenced. So um once that So you're saying that once all of that is complete and that information then we'll look again at the NA the N Yeah, because I my understanding is that they're going to redo the myar. So these don't have those questions on the site and they have the actual owner that the assessor's map in action has. Got it. Mhm. Okay. Interesting. That's been a real um back and forth there. Yeah. Trying to find the real Yeah. trying to find some
022uh the real um history, I guess, of that. Okay. So, there's nothing that's kind of a heads up to us about what's coming, but there's nothing for us to do on it tonight. Nothing at this moment yet. Okay. All right. We are like setting records here. Do we want to approve the minutes of March 27th before we go through the retreat and updates? Yeah, we could do that. Um, they're right behind. I just need a minute because I didn't have a chance to look. March 27th was just Trisha, Anna, and Kate. I did not have any changes to the minutes. Oh, that was just last week or two weeks ago. Oh. how up to speed we are. We are there is on the second page um under the motion C300 but it's CI. These minutes
023used to have like line numbers. They do. I think that just because we went through the new format they forgot to put it. But yes, I'll make a note. Yeah, that might help next time for you. I didn't remember that they took talked about the bottom of the wires, but I guess I don't think we have that in our on the letter we just did for the pruning. I thought it just said the sides and the just the sides and I think that should be top bottom of the wires. Yeah, because I don't remember them talking about about the bottom of the wire because nothing falls on the bottom. Things that are below the wire don't fall on the wire. I thought it was just the sides and the top. Yeah, that is awesome. So,
024it should just be bottom of the wires cross. Yeah, I think it was just 10 feet around the sides, 15 above and 15 above. I mean, that was my recollection. I thought my question, but I think on um page if we can put um say it would be the third page from the back where we're talking about the size of the sign. There was kind of a misunderstanding I think when we were talking about the size of the sign [Music] um which I don't want I don't want to be kind of misconstrued here because it talks about the sign regulations state that signs must be four square feet but really that is um I in looking at it later that that really is part of a regulation that's about um um pedaling and what was
025the other word something pedaling. So, it was really about it's really about a sign, a temporary sign that you might have um on your person or out in front of your business. It's not a business it's not a sign related to a a building. And so, it's actually falls under a whole different section of the bylaws um that aren't even part of the zoning bylaws. So, I just want to make sure that we're not like, hey, this is a building sign that's four feet when it it's not really that's not really the problem is we did say that. So you'd have to put like you'd be editing Yeah, I know. record. So that's why I'm wondering what to do because it's a it's it's kind of saying that we it's I guess in these minute
026minute I was going to say maybe in these minutes just make a note make that correction and edit pedalling and soliciting. That's what there pedaling and soliciting under chap under section 215. Right. So may Okay. So maybe in upcoming minutes we'll make a a note back to these minutes. Um just so so that is clarified. All right. Other than that, I'll make a motion to approve the March 27th, 2025 minutes with changes that Kate and Trisha proposed. Second. Anna Tesmani. I Katherine Jersey. and Trisha Kendall. So are approved and I think we need to go back and just make sure um everything from 2024 was taken care of once once in a while. There's a you know there's a meeting where we popped on the select board. There is I looked today. So the ones
027that [Music] are I don't know talk about that we're talking about minutes but it's generic so I don't know it's gen I think you can go ahead I think minutes are okay so then we can I I looked today so there's several that say like MBTA public hearing and I believe the way we handled those was like it was a public hearing and we just put a statement but there is one meeting missing from like 24. I don't remember the date. So, one meeting that's not one of those. Yeah. And sometimes, like I said, when we have a joint meeting um or we we go on the select board meeting, it's listed as a meeting, but we don't go back and put the little section that we have from hopping on another person meeting, which
028we need to do. So, um I'll I made a note to take a look at those just so we can wrap it wrap it up before we get too far into the year here. We want to go through all the updates and then come back to the retreat items. Um, sure. We want I don't think I have any the comprehensive plan. I'll just say that we had a subcommittee that met for about five hours to review the strategies for the comprehensive plan. The subcommittee included me and Kate um, and I believe three or four other members of the committee. and then we bring our input from the strategies back to the committee which is meeting next Thursday. I will add a clarification that was specifically only strategies that a member of the steering committee had
029identified to talk about but there were too many to get through in a whole committee so we didn't go back to zero. Um, and then I think everyone knows but like at uh soon enough although Trisha reminded me it's into May by term that we will need I would assume the planning board would want to replace another representative comprehensive plans. Great. Probably handle it at the second meeting in May. And we may want to put it on the May 8th agenda so we can discuss what it means. Give the board some thoughts aboutation prior to case departure. What would be your last meeting? Oh yeah. Um second meeting in May would be your last meeting. This No, because the election's May 20th. Gotcha. So you would only have one meeting with us in May. So,
030we may want to have it on the agenda for April 24th if we have a full board. Is Amanda gonna be there meeting? I don't know. No. Um, but I guess it's kind of getting an overview because then we'll have two board members and then um won't we We'll have to point someone. Well, and then we'll we'll need another discussion so that those people could take it into consideration as well, right? So, okay, those are all the updates. Any reports on planning topics? Alro, no. I did have a CPC meeting but really um we were just going through right different just during the different warrants that'll come up at town meeting um different amount of money that are is being assigned to various projects. So um nothing was anything new that we talked about any
031update on the town planner search? No, nothing that I know of. I think I had sent you some questions. You wanted questions from board. Yeah, I to receive any more questions. So, you got mine though? Yes. Okay. Yeah, I have I have scribbles of questions. So, I got to get those and I guess we're going to get them back to the forums. Yeah. I thought we were going to bring them here and talk about them together. Yeah. Yeah. So, when the questions if you want to combine them, we can. Nothing's happening yet though on the applications, but Okay. Uh, Michael. Um, no. So, the Yeah, you were you were in here last time. So, um, Jen Ball contacted me several weeks ago now. Um, shortly after finding out, I guess opening the position. Um, so
032what what they have typically done has had um ideally two members of the planning board. So me plus one other member and Jen Ball who's just the assistant town manager and um the HR director and that four person working group um uh when they get c a handful of candidates that they think will be good candidates for the position. They interview those candidates and then um any any names that they think are they would like to fill the position they put forward to the town manager for him to them to then interview them. But the position is open until filled. So um they don't it's not just one deadline for candidates and then they pick someone from there. It's looking really for the the right best candidate. Yeah. So, um, which makes it a little
033difficult in the meantime for our friend Elvo here, but um, but um, uh, but hopefully we'll get that filled soon. I I don't have any other information, new projects we should be aware of coming. We have not received any update on any new projects. We don't have any bigger projects that we're anticipating in the next couple months. No, at least nobody that has come into the planning department to give me any heads up. Okay, so that seems like a good transition to talk about items, right? I think we covered everything, right, Trisha? We can go back to the uh item eight. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. So, and Kate uh so Kate had um formatted and printed out um that goal list. So, I um updated this from last time. The MBTA
034zoning got taken off. So, I reumbered the green. I just left because they're in progress. We think they'll probably be okay, but they're still in progress. And um hold on a second. Hold on. The AGU is still in progress. Number seven, that was a change from 30 days to Okay, now I get it. Sorry. Um and then like number um six, obviously bylaw review is big, right? that doesn't really cover it, but I did update like the sign bylaws potentially need to be updated. Um, so there weren't major changes since the last time I issued this, but so there's one thing I think is missing, which is I thought we created a checklist for projects that would go like on the front of every We have that. Where is that? That's done and we're using
035it. Okay. I just want to make sure we don't we kind of note that that was probably number 20 or whatever it was because that was an important thing that we did. So, we we have we have a draft. We assume it's going to keep as we start using it. And I did it for one project that I did it for the dog park, but that was quick, so it didn't really get looked at. Where is it? Like, do we have it somewhere? That checklist? I I have it, I guess, as the clerk and I said I would do it for now. And I started it for um the the Pleasant Street project. I actually need to from Alvaro when the application was stamped because on the website it does not give the date. So
036I do need that because that's So if you're only with us one more meeting, sounds like you should get that checklist over to Trisha and Albero, maybe a blank to all of us because that's a key thing that accomplished last year that we should have for next stay always in your binder so you can kind of just check it. Yep. Yeah. I just figured I would get it to for the I saw that the Pleasant Street was off so I didn't Yeah, I have it ready. I could have sent it, but I I know that Alvo's probably been flooded with stuff a little bit. So, if we only have two meetings left with Kate, is there a particular topic, Kate, that you feel you care most about that you want to discuss while you're still
037on the board? Um well I feel like the I don't know what number it is but we had kind of kicked it around a little about um so projects come from in front of us when they're big projects they almost assuredly through like design or construction would have some changes and we I think we did agree that there should be a process for that. So a it's transparent like did someone look at it and agree it's if we stick with dimminimus right we could there's a couple ways we can say the planning board believes these are dimminimous but still someone should review it sign their name to it and come back to the board that that is that's one way or everything has to be just written up what it is and then it's goes
038with the record with the project so in my experience we haven't had that I told you before members of the public have said why Doesn't the project look what was approved when they go to the website? This is a way to be transparent to the public, be honest to ourselves, and get the project we asked for, etc. So, I feel like that wouldn't be hard, but it it we don't have a mechanism right now. Uh where is this? Um number 18. Gotcha. Yep. So as I just so I understand what you're saying when the project is submitted it's supposed to be complete like a complete application. No so a large project. So this we can have the asher they were in front of us so I'm not saying something it it's still early right they
039have to design enough a level to come to us they have to design a level to get funding but it's not issued for construction. So in that process or on site on construction you find an obstruction. I see if changes are being made how we're going to address this. They almost assuredly will. So let's be honest with ourselves. They will. So what do we want to do about it? Right. I understand. So I I think the easiest way this comes up is like we we have a picture of the time we approve the project and then we start building something that hopefully that doesn't happen but yeah in some detail in some small detail. Well we can be smart and get ahead of that. So it doesn't happen. We already know that that small detail
040is going to change, right? Yeah. Well, I think it's more I mean there's a checkpoint in a way at when the construction drawings are submitted, right? Well, we're just saying what we see and approve are design drawings, early design drawings, right? And that doesn't mean they change the whole scheme, right? They've already invested a lot into engineering and etc, etc. Um but between the drawings that we see which are you know maybe at 20% of a complete set you know a lot can happen between there and 100% of the complete set for instance I know at um at the Asher um some things changed because when they started doing the energy calculations um they needed to enclose the parking below I think it was going to be open just with a grate they needed to
041enclose the parking to make the new stretch energy code um and and to make that happen. So um so it's not necessarily bad changes, they're just changes that you don't get you don't do at 20 when your project's at 20%. So um but when you get the construction drawings, those are 100%. Right? Um and uh that would be a point where um they could be looked at to see or reviewed perhaps with the um you know with the applicant the applicant's architect probably you know to really see what the changes are. I mean it would be better in process when they notice those that they give us heads up. So do we want to create some kind of language for our decisions that basically says on large projects or any project that's construction like hey
042we approved particular things if like find some kind of language from other boards that sort of says hey the expectation is that there's substantial changes at the time of construction you'll come back or you'll notify us or or what like how do we do this well so that what Asher thinks is substantial and Kate Jersey thinks substantial and my neighbor as a as as a citizen thinks are not going to match. So we cannot I mean so we need to we need to figure out what that means. Like there's two ways to do it. Either at each project we put our foot down as the board and we say these five things better not change and if they do in our decision it says you come back and talk to us. We either have to
043do it that way project by project or we have to find some standard that is allowed by law right which is like a bylaw or a rule of I think it can be a combination of right I think there's some things um for example just from the look and feel or the materiality um for example 50 pawn pond we proved it two years ago it's nowhere near construction material manufacturing process can change colors can change. So the product that was approved is going to so that's kind of the general ones that I think can by default be put in a process like if materiality undergo some changes but energy related changes that may happen in the life of that project which when you come to construction documents you obviously have to follow that code then
044those are things that I think again could also be elements that we can captured as general items because it's going to have an impact on the facade of buildings in many cases. Um I think it may be wise for us to define and have two scales. One which has got massive impact versus one which can so so I read a bunch I mean most of the ones that have there there's many that have them they use the term dimminimus and then they define what that is. So then everything else has to do you have that some language like that? Um well they don't they don't consistently say what they think is dimminimous, right? But but so that is that's the way to say everything else has to come back. That's one thing. So I think
045it's the opposite of what you're saying, but it accomplish the same thing. It's standardized, right? So the planning these are dimminimous changes. I would argue that nobody gets to make them without a record because now we we don't have a record. And so that's one thing. Domin define dimminimous changes define who reviews that which it it of the ones I looked at um they ranged from the planning department the planning department with we had said before maybe one person from the board to just come to the board give me your little presentation. And is this in a decision typically or in the bylaw? Um, it's just the pro, as far as I know, it's just part of the planning board process. Just like we say, do this for an application, give us so many prints
046of this size. It's just I would think it probably we would want to add it to our decisions when we tighten it up, right? But the rest of it appears to just be process. I mean, I like Deepo's kind of definitions of some stuff like materiality. It's almost like things inside your control versus outside. So, energy related code changes are outside of everyone's control. understanding that we don't need to like we the planning board don't need to say yes you must follow code but certain types of materiality we probably want them to back so to me I kind of like that distinction is making put on but here's where I don't think it's that simple so the energy code changed so I need I need a much bigger HVAC on the roof to handle it
047and now it's not screened And you said I don't have to come back. Yeah. So the energy things like energy code could cause I understand substantial could Yeah. Substantial changes which which should be Yeah. which should be um looked at in that light by the board like I gota uh so um and then for solar panels for example it may be a two-year plan to install solar panels and we assume that it's going to be totally hidden for example but when it's actually installed you start to see all these panels so so some of those things that may matter to us as a planning board I think you should quantify I kind of start to list what I mean maybe what we need is just a memo from the planning board to potential applicants just
048says hey we don't have a defined rule at the time but we are concerned about these types of things like here's four examples of kinds of things we've seen or that we imagine that we're concerned about. So, as we approve projects, we can share the memo with them and we can just be like, "Hey, can you agree with us that if it comes down to construction and you're seeing this kind happen, you're going to come back and we can list some of those examples and see how it works out and kind of through the process of learning project by project, we can start to define the rules or the boundaries of what we're looking at." Because right now it's kind of theoretical to me other than one project I can think of which I was
049not involved in where there was some major changes that maybe were not what the planning board envisioned that maybe were material related or etc. Other than that I don't have a live example that I can touch. But what's the problem with doing something that is quantifiable? The opposite. These are dimminimous. We we aren't as concerned. We still need you to tell us about them because I I think we're we're going to miss something if we're doing it your way. I'm sure of it. I'm I'm good with going your way as long as like let's we have So they said like examples were if you want to move where the fire hydrant I'm giving real examples of people said right because you probably have to coordinate that with someone else in town but we aren't going
050to care. Um, I think generally like the water sewer because I assume they did not write this all down that that's probably to do a change of where your water sewer you probably have to work with another department. They were they were pretty minimal. The lists were short. Can we put can you send that to the board? I feel like we should write it out if it's care about I mean I I didn't put more effort until people sort of agreed with the methodology or even wanted to do it. But it I would say we we should say um dimminimous changes what we consider I think I don't personally see why they wouldn't all come in front of the board because we can I think this is your uh document from before um and I
051probably didn't put details of that part was more process but it was a list the minimum changes may be approved for such changes included but not limited to a total number of parking spaces parking space size and alignment drainage surface storm water curb opening dimensions and locations provided such opening has been approved by the highway department. Removal of underground storage tanks and underground utilities. Minor changes to water sewer. Changes in hydrant location, site building elevation, topography changes, changes in walkways and screening rubbish collection areas. I mean, this seems like a good list to me. These are the kind of things the public tends to be upset about if suddenly but those are the ones that they're saying are dimminimous and they don't they didn't say they don't have to come back to the board. It
052depends what town but um so yeah I don't I don't think our board Yeah, but it says we might approve these changes to a previously approved PLA plan. We might approve changes to this. You have to come back. Okay. Right. Yeah. I took it to mean that these things may be approved. That's how I'm reading it. May Am I misreading it? Yeah, because they said I think so. Um there so um the dimmin changes may be approved. Okay. And and approved means you have to come back for Yes. But they have most of the towns that had had a semi alternate process meaning not the full board meaning it went to planning department planning department and planning board rep. That's fine. What I'm saying is these things if you want these things changed you have
053to get someone to approve them. Right. I think that's how I'm reading. Well the so legally the dimminimus is usually like it doesn't get as much attention. So okay. So that's yes maybe but not exactly written. Yeah. So I think that I've been thinking about this a lot and reading like why would it be a harm to come back to the whole board like we can be efficient at our meetings. We're getting sorry to interrupt you Kate. I'm reading like the there's their their rules and regulations. The way I'm reading it is exactly accurate. They're defining these changes to be the changes that you would have to request for rule to approve. So the word dimminimus is somewhat confusing. It might be. Those are several different ones. I think this is Yeah, that's Shrewsbury. Oh,
054maybe. Yeah, this is all Shrewsbury. I I guess what I'm telling you is I like the way Shrewsbury is doing it. Whether we want I mean I like the idea of it coming back to the board just like it's done here. Shrewsbury has this coming back to the board itself. But the problem where I'm confused is is this in their in their actual zoning. That's the part that I don't think I don't know if we can just do that. I think they're in a process like a planning board process. Yeah. Then is whatever if if it's part of the process and then if that's in the approval document um then yeah then that that's part of the process. Um I think um to me the difference is things like you said like a fire hydrant.
055If the fire department wants the fire hydrant here that's where I'm going to put it. Exactly right. Um for me more of the issues are the massing what the building looks like. you know, well, the shape and size of the windows, but not to not smallest, not to the smallest detail because windows only come in certain sizes. You had to eek it for the energy code, you had to make all the windows a little smaller, you know, whatever. We don't want to be dealing with that because if they would have presented the first windows to us the first time, we would have said they were okay, right? So um but it's yeah it's like those things on the the elevations say the plan and elevations the massing that when um a lay person can look
056at the drawings and say oh these are different why are they different versus yes I went on site and I said yeah these are different but other people didn't notice them right but there should be a level of change where people can notice without me saying, "Look at right here. Do you see how this is different?" Then then I I don't think that's, you know, if I if I need to spell it out, see how this comes a little bit further than that. Yeah. Then I I So we could say it as it's visible to a reasonable person. Yeah. Create a reasonable person standard which is province town. But so I think are we agreeing it comes to the whole so this is from all this conversation I'm hearing is when we get IFC we
057should ask for a write up of what change and that should come to the board. What's an IFC? Uh sorry issue for construction drawings. I don't know if we need it automated for every time that happens. I think we just need to make it part of our decisions that our in our decision we just say you know at the time of construction our rule whatever rule that we have needs to be followed and if these things are happening we're trusting the applicant that if you're doing these 10 things plus whatever two more that we're going to add you're going to come back to us I don't know if we need it every single time there's a construction permit pulled I don't know if we need to like double check everything we just need to trust
058the applicant that you're going to follow the rules If you see these changes, you're going to come back. I just don't see it's hard to give us the bullet point list of what change and that goes on the website with records or I just I don't think that's a big ask. Well, it does. Um I'm somewhere in between here. I think there are some things like this does not need to come back where the fire hydrant goes does not need to come back to the planning board again, right? Like I don't care. Fire department wants it. Move it. Right? I think other things that um are also of a level like when when um the Asher came back to us with changes, you know, there were I mean if you have to you have to
059know what degree of change you're looking for because you're if you're co pointing out every change, it's it's probably going to be the whole facade. you know, this this this corner board changed, that window size changed, this window slid over a little bit here. There's three windows, now there's two. Like, it could be a whole I mean, the way this is written in these other communities, Province Town, Shrewsbury, etc., is I'm an applicant. I file an application to get these approved. Yes. So, it doesn't read like whenever you have a construction permit, you must come back. It reads more like this is our decision. I'm I'm assuming this is our decision. This is what you're building. This applies. And then when you're building, you should we are trusting you to come to us and apply
060for these changes to be read our regulation, not our regulation, our rule, whatever it is, and follow it. That's part of the obligation of an applicant. Obviously, it's a whole other conversation if they don't follow through. But I I would not want to put a burden on every applicant to kind of prove that nothing has changed. I think we have to have some trust, if you will. At least this is how the other communities. No, there are other communities that do that but are doing it more like you must come each time. Yeah, they they they have a um like a stat basically giving a status what changed. I think from documentation point of view every time you're filing drawings for permit and you have bulletins where you have changes you are creating by default
061bulletin list which can come to us which doesn't come to us right now. Exactly. has been changing 3 ft away, 5 ft away. It is a holistic approach. So it's like giving a copy if you will to planning board. But the I think the intent here is if a project lifestyle is four years from schematics to construction and occupying who is I don't think we want to do policing. So I think it needs to be a document that is kind of additions to our conditions which says if the major changes here are the possible list when do they come back what point what is our approval time frame because you can't obviously have um construction lined up and waiting for a board to approve and then back and forth and design changes. So I think
062it's a very involved process. I I think there's some point between 20% and 100% where things do get locked into place, right? And I think it's more and it doesn't become a fire of construction usually, right? So that they're so that they're coming when they think that they have things pretty much locked in place. That's when they come back and said, "Hey, we made these changes, you know, and um and I think it it it would be something like um you know, as we put in the that the approval should not be unreasonably withheld, right? Because this is a normal wake. This is just how construction works, right? Um, so unless it's really against the the spirit of the project, the spirit of our review, what we were looking for, um, then it's probably going
063to be okay, you know, um, so but it would at least have that dialogue and there'd be no surprises, you know, in the end. So, you view it as like for every project? No, I I think it's before that. I think that they should be made aware. The thing is sometimes I wonder if there's a disconnect between the approval, which is probably read very thoroughly by the applicant's attorneys and what the architect sees as they go, the architect, the landscape architect, as they go through their process and like, hey, this would this would actually be better than this. Oh, we had to change this hallway for fire egress standards, so now we had to change this unit window to be that, right? Just it's a ripple effect. So, but I don't know sometimes that the
064the designers at the end of this is getting, you know, is is reading through that document, you know. So, I don't know how that if it's a reminder to the applicant, please have your designers list blah blah blah of these changes and at some point before applying for the before applying for the per building permit, if you have changes, you know, we need to see them. We need I kind of like that that approach makes sense. So then there and but again I think as Deepa had said this is like a you know we we get the drawings we look at them before the meeting we're like hey nine out of 10 of these are like yep I get it but kind number 10 kind of bothers us. Can we you know why did you
065make that change? Can we smooth that out a little bit? You know whatever. And it may be too late from the other side to really have the designer go through changes because your drawings are all kind of almost done. And at the same time I what I have always in my professional life been afraid is setting process that is not just true for today but for tomorrow. All of us may change and go out of it. We may have a planning board who's not in this industry, right? Um, and how would they kind of look at this process? Would that be really helpful for them? And what is that scale that way? Because if you leave design to interpretation, it's very hard. Listen, right now we have a board with designer and an architect. Let's
066let's take care of it. And the thing is if a future board finds it useless, they'll erase it and recycle. No, I think I think it's just I think it's also just having part of the at least my understanding of that was to having part of the process that it's not like okay two two one or two members of the planning board will look at it and decide if it's small changes because you might not have might be the board like when I came on where there were no designers on the board like it was there was I don't think you do what I think you keep in mind would the public think this is something different and we have no record that's if you keep that in mind you don't have to be a
067designer think the two of you are bringing you're bringing an architect design perspective which is really important but I don't think this is so complicated for a reasonable person to see major differences that's what I mean the level of those differences because because both when I was earlier on the board without any other designers I am seeing it differently and that's why it's important to try to um spell out a little bit of what what a major changes and what it what it isn't. Yeah. Right. Because I'm going to spot things at a different level of detail. Absolutely. So, so looking at these, for example, when I look at the 10 Shrewsbury items, I read like the number of parking spaces, you don't really need an architecture background to know what how how that changes.
068You know what I mean? So, yeah, if we're talking if we're going to add to this list something that is more designoriented, we can make it super specific. But what's on here is very straightforward. Like changing drainage, I think we can all see what that means. Changing hydrant location is not going to take any design background. Like you're either here or there. So ultimately, this does not to me this does not require a lot of detail. We just need to kind of agree to it and then if we add design elements to it, absolutely. Let's be as specific as possible as to what disturbs us. To me, most of the things on this list are things that they discuss with the building commissioner. That's that's what these are to me. And when it comes in
069front of the planning board, fire hydrant really don't show up in all your elevations. I mean, if you believe this is all for building inspector, that's fine. But we should have that in our rules because I don't know if it is. Like, how do we know that we're doing all that? Who's approving all this stuff now? So either way, whether it's coming to us or the building inspector. Well, and I guess so the other side of this is if there's no process, it could be a bigger change that doesn't get approved because there's I think the why you make this is there's these dimminimists, they get recorded, you you say, "Yeah, I agree." Like you said, your example, nine of these, we don't care. And they're fine and hey, we want to talk about this
070other one. But every single one of those had when it's a bigger change, it's a new it's like you you reopen that application and we never have we don't maybe it didn't need to be done. I'm not saying but like it I've watched a lot of planning board meetings before I was on the board. Pay attention like Mark now I'm on the board like I don't believe we have a good process for that that's related to this right. Let's pretend we're talking about the project next to your house for a second. And I don't think I can because I'm on the board. Sorry. Okay. Let's pretend we're talking to a project that doesn't exist that one of us decides looks sketchy. This right here, what whatever we we come up with, we'll force a conversation.
071Then the board can discuss as a board and vote on it whether this is something we need to reopen or not. So I I don't have a problem with a process that allows for a conversation. I don't think, you know, any protocol that we create. It's not going to require them to do anything other than it's going to give us a chance to speak. I mean, that's my point. Like this there's another part to this that doesn't have to be written. It just it gets it back in front of the board to have those like that view and those conversations. Or it's simple as like you have a list of items. We say when you're ready to submit your drawings for permit, use this as a checklist and if there are any major changes, give
072us a heads up. It could be uh I don't know depending on the scale of the changes figure out if have like review online or offline. Yeah. And I think some of this like I mean um this isn't always well I mean yeah maybe it's up to us but I would also like to understand um like Doug Scott's view on this I would like to understand um you know Kurd cup curb opening dimensions and locations like is that something if the fire department would care about that which they might then it should stay on the list if they're like you know it's it's changed all the time a little bit it's fine you know Um, and if it's not in the end, if it's not the way it should be, I mean, it it it
073can be changed, right? But neighbors might care about, we had that conversation about ADU that people might not want another curb cut. So, I mean, it's it's not just as simple as I'm saying another curb cut. I'm just saying like but I mean to me to me the to me it's kind of like it's up to us as the planning board to decide when we approve a project when all of these details are already there we should decide if we care for it to come back to us. When it comes back to us we can consider and ask the fire department if they care. I don't know if I would ask the fire department now because what are we asking the fire department? If if it's a little bit moved they're not going to care.
074If it's a lot moved they will. So obviously it should be there for the conversation when the project comes to us and says we're moving the fire hydrant. We could ask for input from the fire department. I I wouldn't ask to me we don't need to ask them now if they care. Of course they're going to care if it's moved significantly. That's the whole point. We don't really know what's going to happen. I mean to me this is a no-brainer. Like I I if other communities are doing it, I don't think there's any harm in doing it. If we're nervous to do it, we can go back to my kind of more cautious idea, which is we draft a memo to applicants with actual live examples of what we've learned and seen over the last
075couple years. We, the planning board of whatever April 10th, these are the things that we've experienced. You as an applicant, we're trusting you to come to us if these kinds of changes occur prior to construction project. And we kind of watch it for a year. We collect examples and that eventually we'll ready for this kind of list. If we're not ready, I'm ready. Like I I like this list. I'm ready to adopt it and just see how it goes. Obviously, it would be good if Deepa and Trisha could add a couple of design elements that are very detailed based on your experience so that we can also capture those major material materiality changes that are less subject more objective, right? Like things we can actually agree to. So the way you described it like a
076window change that is like you have to find it. You have to really look for it. Nobody cares about. But if if there's I don't know dimension changes and size changes that a reasonable person would be upset about how do you define that in writing? So are these snippets in I mean part of decision making in other towns or I believe there in I I put every citation so you could find them. I'm not sure I put a link but I I believe because I did that actually like a while ago. I believe they were in their regulations, not in bylaws. It would they have a planning board regulations, right? Some are eight pages, some are 80 pages. Was 80, but 40. Um, so I do not believe any were a bylaw. I was in
077the planning board essentially process. It kind of makes sense. The planning board already has jurisdiction in the project. Logically, ability jurisdiction mess with our decision, come back. That's really what this that's what it is. Yeah, I mean I think that process, you know, reading it further is yeah, might might be a good one here. You know, the step A is that um if the town planner and board chair, I don't think necessarily has to be the chair, but so say town planner and someone else agree that the proposed change is Dominous, their decision shall stand without review by the board and shall be recorded in the case file. that the town planner and the board chair agree that the proposed change is not deminious or if the town planner and the board chair fail to
078agree on the determination it will be referred to the board. Um and of course if they think it's not it that would definitely come back to the board. So um which which kind of makes a lot of sense. I also I just don't think it doesn't necessarily have to be the board chair because there there might be someone else on the board. The board chair doesn't have to be a designer or have the most experience on the board. You can appoint someone. You could appoint someone. If we do that and not the board, I mean, I I personally prefer, if I'm not going to be on the board too much longer, but that that whoever is making the decision has to write a little thing of why and sign their name to it and not
079just tell the board about it. Hey, we got five of these. Here's why we said it was and you sign your name. I'm good with that. Yeah. I like this. I like this process faster. Yeah. To report back. I think they should have to report back to the board. Yeah. Right. Could be chair or appointed member. So the chair doesn't feel like doing it. But to me, this is kind of a no-brainer. Again, as long as for sure have to add that design element. Well, I'm not sure um with this process. I'm not sure it's about a design element. It's like is it a it's more like is it a big change or is it a little change and if it's a big change then someone might be you know it looks like a big
080change to me. So I think it should come to the board. So that's fine. It sounds to me like we we've made some good progress. So like what's the next step on this that we're comfortable with? No, I think it's uh what I would do first is to type this up ex, you know, basically exactly as it is and then kind of start fiddling with it. Do you want to do that? Are you in that that mindset to do it? I could take a step. Okay, that'd be great. Would you like I think I that went to everyone. You can unpdf it. I probably can unp I mean I think this was important to Kate and I think it's great if we can make progress on it while Kate is still in the board. Um,
081I will take personal responsibility for number five on the list because I had promised I would eventually do the research on the zoning for downtown hotels. So, I don't think I can do that by the time Kate leaves, but I can commit to like May June to bring the research towards the board. It sounds like we are I don't want to jinx us, but we're in a slightly quieter project related area. So my legs are crossed and my fingers are crossed. So I would inspire and motivate the rest of the board. If there's an item that you care about, let's grab, you know, if we each grab one. I mean, obviously you guys are sounds like Trisha might be grabbing on to the thing we just talked about, but if we're willing to grab one
082and kind of be responsible for bringing it to the board, maybe this is the time for us to quote unquote plan the next couple months. So, I'm going to put in I mean definitely a plug um about the comprehensive plan because that really what about it? Um a supporting getting to the finish line because there are some things but but particular getting another member. Um no no the um so implementation plan belongs with the planning board. That's true. We have and if you wait till it's all approved and done it's just going to sit there for a while and linger again like the so typically the comprehensive plan will say this is what we want for our town. It's not going to get to the level of zoning changes that might need to accomplish them
083for instance. No two things related right typically the planning board is not only involved in pushing a comprehensive plan but also pushing an implementation committee and starting to think about what are the zoning changes we need to draft. Essentially, as the comprehensive plan starts to do the writing work, we as a planning board could bring that back here and in that year of writing, we could start thinking about the zoning changes that need to happen. Understood. I mean, I I'm here for another year at least. So, I could I mean, assuming I'm still on the comprehensive plan committee, which I am, I could certainly I mean, I think I'm just putting a plug for that because if if that waits, it's just not going to go well to keep moving because you don't want to
084pass the comprehensive plan and then be like rushing. Now, what are we going to do? they want to start working on those zoning changes or talking about and just general implementation plan like I how I have lots of ideas how that could work like but anyway there's no plan no I get it I I think I can kind of make a footnote for myself to think about that since I'm on the well it sounds like I mean before we get to bylaw changes it sounds like it's more about understanding what the implementation how that works. Yeah. And then so that you can start looking at well are there bylaw changes? If so, what bylaw changes when you know kind of thing versus just saying we got to get these bylaws done really quick about engagement.
085I'm no so numbers 8, nine, and 10 are more like easy and 11 and 12. 8 through 12. I feel like we've been kind of doing it meeting with different departments and Do we want to maybe do some of that in the next couple of months? Well, I mean this with the zoning board of appeals in light of the 40B project. Well, number 11 almost gets like a green mark too because um they are forming a a historic district that that's also in process, right? Um and I think they're going to come back. You know anything about that, Alro? I think they're maybe going to come back. I haven't received any updates. I know that before Peter left, he did reach out, but I don't think he heard anything at that point. I don't know
086if the email because we had just requested some clarifications on the information like like an updated plan and like for them to tie up the loose ends like on that. Um but so far um they haven't requested to to come back. Um, so some of these like the fiscal impact tool I know Peter was working on and obviously once we have a new planner we can come back to um and then like number 16 again once we have a new board we can discuss more. Anyhow, my two cents would be that we keep this list um for our meetings and what you know seems like this is the time of the year while we don't have a lot of big projects to much more. Yeah, for me the priorities are um the bylaw review and
087my Yep. my Yes. And what I term that is not necessarily what other people term that. So that's I keep my own counsel about what I think about, you know, those bylaws which mostly to me is about inconsistencies. Um things that aren't clear, things that don't like actually don't make sense. Not like, oh, I think this bylaw that should be changed. Residents feel differently about that now. Not what I'm talking about. You're talking about like cleaning up silly things that are like definitions that that clearly are that are I I think that's fine. My concern is if those are like not if the public doesn't see a work plan then it's like hey I just got this change and then it's like what where did this come from? Right. I I think we get ourselves
088in trouble when we don't bring the public along. Yeah. I mean, we've well, when we upgraded everything, um, I think I think if you look back about how we presented the zoning changes in June of whatever it was few years ago when we're in COVID and the MBTA bylaw, we went through that step by step by step. I presented at town meetings step by step by step at numerous meetings. So, I don't think there's any chance of this kind of just Never have I presented something here. Just sign it. Right? It's about it's about explaining what the inconsistency is, why it it doesn't make sense, why it's messing up our actually the logical understanding of our bylaws and and making those changes. I think actually a lot of times they're really easy to spell out
089when someone explains this doesn't make it actually. No, I think we recently have done a much better job. Unfortunately, right? So, we're we we caught ourselves this time. We said, "Hey, let's have this meeting first." So, if someone came to a hearing, I'm sorry, a premeating, they w we would have time to change it. We've had it where like, "Oh, sorry. Thanks for your comments, but we can't change it to go to town meeting." Those are the kind of things about being well planned and scheduled. So, if you have a meeting to explain it, there's a chance for someone to make a comment. Let's talk about what has worked. So, like with the MBTA stuff, what worked? I think there was a subcommittee appointed by the select board, planning board. I think you were on
090it and there was a lot of work that went into it and there was lots of meetings that were open to the public etc etc. And so maybe we need to replicate this for the zoning changes. Maybe we need to think about we as the planning board are able to appoint and create groups to support our work. The design review committee in the past has offered help. We could in theory put it upon them. We could delegate some of that work to them. We could also choose, this is not crazy. Planning board has the power to say, "Hey, we're looking for volunteers from the community." For example, those who are no longer with the board. We're looking for volunteers from the community to sit down and do this task. We want you to read the
091entire bylaw and look for the kinds of things that maybe Trisha is interested in like what I would call kind of cleaning cleaning it up for inconsistency and lack of logic. And we're looking for a list of the top 10 things that need to be considered for bigger change, whatever that looks like. Like we can delegate this work. Well, like I said, I I think we're you could be talking about the kind of changes I am or maybe not. But um I for like as I've said before, this is just as as you're going to look at hotels, this is just something I'm going to do. I'm not really frankly I'm not really interested in being on a working group or anything else with it. That's fine. If you want to do it, go for
092it. So I'm just going to do it at my own pace as how I when I see those things, I'll bring them before the board and that's and that's the time and energy I have to donate. Yeah. No, that's great. I'm That's awesome. I didn't want to just Nope. But if someone else if someone else is gung-ho about signage or something else, they can run with it. I'm good. Yeah, I'm gung-ho about downtown hotels, so I'll do that. You guys may not like it and we'll see what happens. I think this is great. Thank you, Keith, for putting this together. I mean, it seems to me like we've done what we can for today on it. By the way, Airbnb short-term rentals, the sense I got from this board when we talked about it relative
093to ADUs because a lot of communities handle these things together. The sense I got was that this was not the time for Ashlin to do an Airbnb short-term rental bylaw. So, I kind of dropped it from my purview. I I think it when we're at a time with the state where we have we're short of housing to create short-term rentals to me is just That's what I just said. You guys were not interested. But guys, this was the opposite. This was saying, should we make it that you can't do it because people, it has an impact on the community. You can put regulations on short-term rentals in your community. Other communities have Yeah, you can limit. You can basically say you're not allowing it. I got you. Or limits or the other way. Yeah. So,
094that was that was the flavor of this. I don't see it yet as a problem in Ashland. If you guys want to talk about it, we can. Um, I mean, I think it's potentially an issue, but I haven't seen enough public interest to say shut it down. Okay. Yeah, I thought you were I thought you were looking to allow it more. I was thinking you could do it in in a variety of ways. You can regulate it. You can do in some communities, they're making money off of it. You can tax them. Do all kinds of fun stuff. So, I mean, I can remove from the list. I guess the the overview is have another retreat, right, with the new board and update the list, find make assign the clerk to keep it up. This
095wasn't really assigned to me. I just did. No, no, no. I get it. I I think that we've made enough progress. It sounds like I'm stepping up to say I'll own number five. Trisha is saying she's going to take care of number six at her own time frame. Um Deepa and Trisha both are looking at number 18 more. And I'm, you know, going to do my best with 14 and 15. And then we're going to have a new board and we're going to see what else the board is willing to do. Hopefully for the next meeting when Kate is still with us, we can make some more progress in number 18. Sounds like Trisha had some ideas of taking it and fiddling with it a little bit. So, I personally feel like we made sufficient
096progress for today. I'd agree with that. Is there anything else in our agenda? I think I think you moved everything up before this so that we would wouldn't have anything. Great. Appla. You want a motion to adjurnn? I'll make a motion to adjurnn for 8:40 p.m. I'll second it myself. Right. And a roll call vote. Anna Tesman. I Katherine Jersey. And Trisha Kendall. I 8:40.