001work session, workshops live. But >> all right, anything to >> Oh, no. I think I we I mean I kind of covered it at the beginning. I I'm good with wherever you all want. I mean, you just direct us where to take the conversation on um on this one. I did um I did send you all on Friday a kind of a little review. Um I actually plugged it into artificial intelligence and let it tell me, okay, give me a bulleted list of of the changes here and kind of what the impact is and the purpose and and those kind of things. So hopefully that was somewhat helpful. Um and just kind of help us go through and compare the two documents. And so >> well, I'm going to be honest with you. I hadn't
002had time to go through it. So, >> all right. >> I just noticed that I've got an email on on this afternoon. So, I've just um I I have not been able to read through it. Well, I don't think we need to be in a big hurry. I mean, I'll answer any other questions that we have and and my my thought is if if not everyone is is ready to discuss, why don't we um answer any questions that you all have right now. Um, and then between now and um, uh, uh, the next time we bring this up, we can Carrie and I can put on put some wording together on the ethics policy to make sure we understood what you all were saying tonight, let you review that and then go into this one
003um, at the next one. Um, probably uh, that would be one of the meetings in January because we already have a couple topics on December's uh, workshop. Um so we'll skip that one and if you all want um I'll answer any questions that are anything look at any areas that you have for tonight but if not we'll just wait until the next meeting >> and in the meantime you can share >> right >> just shoot him an email that says you know this this >> yeah if you have questions sure yes >> absolutely You want to just wait till wait till the next time so you have better time and you can just take couple minutes here and just see. >> Yeah, go right ahead. Just to throw out something your uh pages are not
004normal but uh just under the the correspondence. Uh the uh I know I forward something to you here last week that I someone sent me an email and I think they just I'm going to send it to two of the council members here, Josh and I. And I know you sent us an email and and everything. I'm still struggling with how to respond back to that person. Don't want to seem like I'm ignoring it. >> And when I read this, it tells me that, you know, we should talk to staff and everything or the city manager. I forward the email to you and so how do council respond to something like that that would keep the citizens happy because they are the ones who put us up here? >> Absolutely. Yes, sir. >> You know,
005uh I'm I'm just struggling with that. >> Yeah. So I think um if if we're talking with about So I'm reminding myself that the document had sections for council relations with each other, council rem relations with staff, council relations with other boards and other bodies. Um but it doesn't really govern council relations with your constituents. As I see it, you all are free and have an obligation to talk to your constituents. They are the ones that put you here. They are the ones that expect and and you have to have an open ear to them, you have to listen or you won't be sitting here for very long, >> right? So, uh, the way I see it is, you know, when a when a resident brings something to to you, then then the way our
006charter works is you'll you'll convey it through my through the city manager, whoever's in this chair, you know, to handle it appropriately, provide you information back either to communicate from the city manager directly to that resident, from a from a staff member to that resident, or from yourself providing, you know, after you've gotten that that that feedback. back providing a response to them and making sure that that's appropriate. If it hasn't been or they feel like they're not getting adequate attention, maybe then the opportunity is for us together, whichever council member and the city manager to sit with that resident and and hear them, make sure that we're both making ourselves available to to hear their concerns and to make sure that they're being addressed. Um, but I I think that um I I think
007that that's in place and I think most of you all are comfortable responding back and and making sure that you can contact me and if if we need to, we'll we'll together we will uh we'll sit down and address them. And if we need to bring other staff members in, if it's something that gets to the operational level and we need to bring other staff members in, uh we certainly can do that as well. >> Yeah. cuz if I mean if it's like something that's you know coming up on a upcoming agenda on staff's already done their thing. So if they're just wanting to talk to you about how you feel about how you're going to >> vote on something or if they want to just encourage you to go a certain way. I mean
008that that's just that's normal. I mean that's unless you want to clarify some information that uh only staff could provide if there you know if it's something that operational that >> well I think that this involve more of the day-to-day operations wouldn't you say so >> yes sir and I and I think that's one of those things that you know that there there are going to be those times where um we have staff members that have a lot of obligations, a lot of responsibilities to this community. And they look at they look at things um hopefully at the director level and at city managers level look at things from the big picture as to how things interrelate and how things um uh affect other areas of operations. And and while while a a resident might
009come with a concern, sometimes their concern might not be able to be addressed as the highest priority or the immediate need because there might be other things that are taking place leading up to that. Um, and I think, uh, sometimes we just have to have that conversation of of we have staff members that have evaluated it, that have made what the best decisions that we can, and we have to we have to understand that if we disagree with them, we either redirect staff um, or we make changes in staff if we can't. But but I think that that the staff's responsibility is to look at things and and to make the proper decisions for the order of uh things to take place or to prioritize needs uh accordingly. And just because we get one resident
010that tells us priorities should be different, that doesn't necessarily make it fact. And and so sometimes we have to trust that that we have looked at more than just that one person's perspective. um or and and we've made decisions based on the big bigger picture. >> Well, I'm going ask the attorney a question here since since we're talking about policies. Is there something in the policy right now that would forbid two council members from meeting with a citizen of the community? this particular person have requested to meet with two council members. >> The um when I look at that correspondence section what it says and I don't recall another provision in here that speaks to it but maybe there is says if correspondence is addressed to only one council member maybe two said to that
011council member should check with staff on the best way to respond to the senator. So, I think I think what that is saying is that check with staff, see see what the facts are in terms of um you know, are there additional um uh details or facts that you should know as a council member before responding or meeting with them. I think that's what that's saying. I don't I recall a provision that says that you should not meet with them. Uh two council members is not a quorum. would not be a it would not be an open meetings violation. Um so you could legally meet with that person two council members. Um >> yeah but that exposes you to that walking quorum type thing. That's two people out of the out of the picture that
012can't talk to anybody else. >> Correct. Then then it becomes a quorum because that's you know a majority of five. So you do have to be careful of that and be aware of that. So even if it's just one of the two that goes and talks to another one, that would be a walking form, daisy chain form, whatever you want to call it. So you would have to be careful. Um, in doing so, um, but I I'm not aware of any provision that would prohibit you, two council members from meeting with a constituent, >> but be careful. Robert, is there anything in the policy of the city that would >> No, I don't. >> But but I do stand corrected there. There is actually a section that says council relations with the citizens um that
013I that I was in my mind not remembering off the off the top of my head. But um um and it and it basically just u does talk about um how how you all as council members welcome citizen input. you you you'll you'll refer it to the appropriate city personnel, city managers through the city manager's office and um and and we'll provide responses to them where appropriate. And and I think um I I would say no, there is nothing that in black and white prohibits two council members from meeting with any resident on any topic. The problem becomes as soon as one of those two council members leave and have even a passing conversation with any of the other members of council there there are some that would say you've created a walk-in quorum and
014have violated the open meetings act which has civil and criminal penalties in some cases and I think that's where we have to be careful and cautious that we that we don't cross that line just, you know, I want to be in compliance, but at the same time, I want the citizens to know that >> 100%. >> Right. >> Yeah. I I agree with you. Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Part of that is is the the public doesn't realize how restricted we are. They don't understand why can't you meet with these people, you know? But I I do think that when I forwarded to you the other day that that gave me something to go back to her. I hadn't talked back to that person yet, but I think I could >> hopefully respond to the things
015that you said. >> And and a walk-in quorum could also include an email. >> Yes, sir. That's correct. from the email that the city manager sends out or a email that the council sends out. >> It would be one the council sent out, but uh yeah, not city manager cuz he can he can send >> I can send information to you all send >> but we can't reply all because we already got an open meeting but >> or a private I mean And it's good that you put that, Robert, every time. This is a reminder to each of us not to reply off. >> That's in my template. If it was somebody that had wanted to meet with me and somebody else, >> I would just tell them that I'll be happy to meet with
016you and if you don't mind, could you meet with that other person >> Separately. Just, you know, just so that you're >> protect yourself. Yeah. Yeah. That's my my opinion, you know. >> Well, you know, the reason I'm I'm bringing that up now is we're in this process of doing this and it's something that we need to put in this new policy if we're changing the policy about this. I'm I'm thinking >> well part of that part of this is you know the open meetings act is addressed in here, right? >> Correct. So yes, it covers that >> as far as >> I don't know that we're I don't know that we've proposed any changes to to the pol to the to that process. I think we're just >> in communicating with the citizens, >>
017right? I don't I don't think we're we're restricting that or changing it in any I think we're just making sure that we all clarifying it like you were your question was just to clarify that you know and I mean somebody's very passionate about something it shouldn't um I don't know it would seem to me that they would want to meet separately and not together. I don't know. But Uh just reading this here since we're setting up this solid and everything. Want to ask another question here. Uh limit contract to staff. contact the staff. Um up underneath the uh the conduct said reaffirm that request for information should go through the city manager, city attorney, city secretary or department head clarify that the city manager office should be copied on request for transparency and so is
018that saying that if one of the council member want information that whoever we asked that information from, we CC the city manager. I I would say I I would I would classify that as a best practice just because it keeps the city manager in the loop whether I'm in the seat or not. Um, what one of the things that I ask of my staff members because I work for you all, not not the other way around and so I can't instruct you necessarily on on what to do, but I can instruct my staff. So, what I tell them uh is if they get a request uh from a council member to CC me on their response back. That brings me into the loop. So even if you don't include me on the request, you should
019see me see me as uh copied on on the response back. Again, that's not saying I want to limit the information that comes to you all. I just want awareness of the kind of questions that are being asked so that I can adequately prioritize things and give instruction where instruction might be needed. But isn't the best practice if it has to do with something that's actionable that it should go through you? >> It should. If it's going to if it's going to be tantamount to an assignment or or something that needs action, then it Yes, it should because again, just for awareness so I know what's what the staff is being tasked with. >> Well, you you direct staff, >> right? >> We direct you. >> Correct. So, it's not >> we don't need >>
020it's not appropriate to me to tell a staff member to do something, >> right? So, so there is kind of a fine line there between directing staff or if you're just asking a question, if you're just asking for information or an update, there's nothing wrong with going straight to, you know, a particular director. Um, and again, I I just like to have awareness for my own just so I know kind of, you know, what's on your radar and what those priorities are. So, I asked the staff to CC me on the response if I wasn't on the inquiry. >> But it's not to the level that if I run across Susie at Brookser Brothers and I ask her a question, we don't have to notify you for that. >> No. No. >> Susie works for
021you. I know the answer. >> Oh, yeah. I don't have correct. Yeah. I will say in the past though when y'all do give me something I do copy the city manager. >> I think that's a it's a good practice. >> Yeah. >> Teamwork. Yeah. I kind of like that. But you got to um respect uh administration authority that the administration oversight rests solely with the city manager. The council role remains policy and direction not personnel or operation. >> Yeah. I would just say if there's anything else um just shoot an email to to Robert and >> one one other quick question here before you uh close out >> up underneath the digital communication uh uh say recognize that Communication now occurs through via uh via email in Texas. Uh encourages uh the use of office
022city system for transparent and record retention. So the council do not have city phones. Correct. So, if we want to contact you or ask you a question about city business, do we do it on our laptop or Well, you can. Um, but but there's there's nothing wrong with a text message. We just have to be aware that if we send a text message, whether or not it's on a city phone and it's relating to city business, that particular test text message is governed now by the open uh or the the the uh public information act. Um and we have a retention schedule that that we have to retain that and not delete it if someone were to do uh an open records request. Uh, and so you just have to remember that if you do
023choose to conduct business on a personal device, city business doesn't make everything on that device open to the open meetings act. Only the city business related materials would uh would be uh um relevant, but you we do have to retain those still. And so the the reason the policy is written like it uh encouraging use of city devices because we have those uh policies kind of incorporated into our city systems where we save those messages for the whatever the retention schedule is. I won't try to spout the city Susie might be able to spout those off the top of her head. I know some of them are two years and some of them are so long and some of them you can get rid of when they're of you know no value and different things.
024But again there there are retention schedules that apply if it is city business related messaging. >> Most stuff is three years is but I don't know that exact amount of my pursuit to state law. Council member you are considered a temporary custodian of city records if you use your personal device. As Robert was saying, um you are considered a temporary custodian of that record until you turn it over to the city. So if you wanted to make a screenshot or since it's not captured by the city server, if you wanted to make a screenshot, give it to Susie, then that would relieve you. You could delete that message um if you want if it dealt with city business and then you could delete it. But until that happens, you're really a custodian of that record
025and do need to retain it. So the laws the law was amended about I don't know two or three sessions ago to provide that specifically so that you do have a duty to turn that over to uh the city should the city receive a request for records that involve something that is on your phone or another device. So just be aware of that. It's so it's kind of more if a citizen send send an email to reply on a on the city laptop instead of your personal phone or desktop >> in terms of minimizing what you have on your personal process. That would be >> it would be encouraged to to do it >> that way. And that's captured by the the city server too. If it's an email to your city email address, it's
026not going to matter where you send it from. It's coming through the city's email domain and that record stays there in your sent items or in your inbox. >> Yeah. Because I've got like I've got both email in my phone. >> And so kind of have to be aware of making sure of you >> which email I'm which email address I'm using. That good or not? All right, we will re read rejourn.