001our e my name is Jim neelsen I'm the chair of the ashin historical commission and welcome to tonight's hearing I'm glad you could make it um I'm just gonna start the meeting talking so we can hear I can't hear you hear started all the way in the back can you hear me now Julie can you hear us okay can you hear me everybody on Zoom can you hear me I can hear you okay yes yeah all right I'm opening the public hearing notice is hereby giving that the Ashen historical commission will be holding a public hearing on Tuesday January 14th 2025 at 7 p.m. in the select board meeting room at the Ashland Town Hall 101 Main Street ashin Mass persons wishing to be heard on this matter invited to attend this in person or
002by logging into zoom using the link below which is posted on the town's website www.mass.com and then it gives the actual Zoom address uh the purpose of the hearing is to discuss the proposed local historic district both the preliminary study report and a map are posted on the town's website Ashen mass.com interested parties who are able to attend the hearing May submit written comments to the Ashen historical commission at historical at Ashlin mask.com uh and that's me um I want to explain to everybody that anybody who wants to speak whether for or against will be given a chance to speak we have the room for a while I'm not sure how many people will actually attend I actually want to say this is the the official hearing but we're going to have another meeting um
003on this the histo I'll just back up a little bit the historical commission's been having meetings about this every week at their meeting which is which is the second Tuesday of every month um for the past two years but we're going to have another uh hopefully I'll get a bigger room too for a hybrid meeting so people can come in person if they have any further questions probably in March or April closer to the town meeting um so if you don't have a question now and it pops up later please feel free to call me uh call me uh or email me or there going to be another meeting or please you're all invited to come to the um the ashin historical commission meetings um now I also asked that anybody speaking wait to be
004recognized by the chair and I'd like to just do a little brief introduction and a little PowerPoint presentation that's very brief uh just to give you a feel of what we're doing and what this is all about all right was it I'll back up a little bit the uh the ashon historical commission was reestablished back in 2020 right before covid it been vacant for a number of of of years uh due to disinterest or or whatever have you and the original commission got back together and we spent all our time doing things we getting it took us a while to get reorganized and a bunch of different topics came up mostly what the mission of the uh the historical commission is basically to preserve and to promote the historical and Architectural features of Ashley now
005in ashin a lot of these properties are are quite spread out the old farmhouses because it was a rural town and that there's no uh cluster of a neighborhood of buildings and things like that uh that really Define the town they're all spread out one by one and one by one we're losing those houses and all those old buildings it really came to a head when the mill building project started and we met with them and there were there was one plan in the beginning I don't want to rehash the whole thing it's now a 40b project and it's not in our control anymore or anybody's control except the state I guess or whatever the town does um it's not the historical commission's uh purview anymore but uh that's what started the ball rolling to
006see how you can protect a building in ashin um a historic building in ashin a significant building in ashin from being demolished um with no say from the town um what happens to it um and in order to do that there's been several uh things proposed but I I did we did some research and let me just tell you by establishing local historic district mun municipalities highlight their Town's character and history and protect them against inappropriate alterations and demolition created through the passes of a town law bylaw a local historic district requires that certain projects visible from the public way are viewed by a locally appointed historic district commission for example if a property owner wants to add onto a building located in the district the property owners must submit an application to the historic
007district commission the historic district commission holds a public hearing and makes a determination based on the established guidelines on whether the new addition is appropriate if the new addition is deemed appropriate the historic commission ISS issues a certificate of appropriateness which allows the work to proceed local historic districts were established in Massachusetts in 1955 for Beacon Hill in Nantucket the entire island of Nantucket is a historic district um the historic districts act chapter 40c of the Massachusetts general laws of 1960 amended 1975 and 83 is the enabling legislation for the creation of local historic districts there are now more than 200 local historic districts in more than 120 municipalities in the Commonwealth neighboring towns with local historic districts include Framingham Hoppington Medfield NAC Sherburn um we could go on in Massachusetts a historic district consists
008of a single building like 76 Main Street in hopkington or an or an entire Island as is the case with Nantucket um now there's a couple things we want to go through uh we'll just start with the with the PowerPoint presentation well we decided um way back when that the only way we were going to preserve some of the buildings in the downtown was to create this District it's the only way to prevent demolition of some of the buildings now not everything in this proposed district is historic um but there those are what they call placeholders and if I'm not I'll just introduce on my right over here here is our consultant that we hired um her name is Stacy spies and she's a professional what you call it architect and Stacy and and the
009and the commission did a lot of research and we had a whole study committee that vetted the research and discussed it and we this went on for I would say over two years um we had meetings public meetings every Ashlin historical commission meeting was this was talked about and um a while back there was letter sent out to the owners of the prop what what we decided actually uh it was because of the downtown area um was not as res well there is only one residence in the downtown area that this district is proposed over the rest of businesses or public buildings and most of the ones uh in the downtown area that we're trying to preserve are significant to Ashland um not everything like I said and we'll just go through it here why
010create a local history historic district a local historic district is the only mechanism able available to preserve historic buildings uh to maintain the character of the downtown ashlin's quickly losing its historical buildings uh demo delays in the National Registry like a National Registry of National Historic register all what they do is they highlight it but there's no there's no mechanism in the National register to basically preserve the building so you can take it you might want to move the bar there to the over to the right so not oh yeah that's good well lower down so how do I do this uh that'll do no no there it goes there's a way there's a way of making it go on the right side instead of okay that'll do yeah okay I didn't do anything um
011this is basically um demo delays and National R are good to have but they don't create long-term preservation to preserve ashlin's history and this if you can see are some of the some of the major uh buildings that we we wish would hope to preserve uh on the top there you have the public library and you have the Mason's building um on the right is John Stones which uh has been here before the town was created uh below that the fire station which is is built in 1923 is part of the historic fabric of ashin and below that is the 18 I believe it's 1886 uh railroad station that is privately on now um we have the church which has been here since I believe is at 1835 close enough um and to the left
012of that I forget that that's the Higgins block I believe uh which is now it used to have Dave TV when I first moved to Ashland but it's the blue building next to Sunny side and above it is the mill buildings which as we know is a whole different discussion on um on what's happening with them they're included because part of if you look at the map that's provided the look down to the map the map it has to be a contiguous District um if you wanted to do individual buildings you'd have to have an individual local historic commission for each and every building um that's never going to we never have enough participants in ashin to do that um but and this they don't really recommend it unless um some places do it I
013think the only place I can think of as the city of Somerville um tends to do it in single buildings but it's a different process with a city as opposed to a town yeah and they also have staff people and they have staff people Planning and Development people who monitor so that's a much larger undertaking yeah so if you can see from the map it starts over at the as ashin Historical Society the Ocean House continues down Main Street to past the um Mill buildings the building next to the church the church and around the cemetery which we've been restoring in another matter and going down Front Street all the buildings on that side of the street until the library and from the library across the street all the buildings across Homer AV uh starting
014at the train station the block right on the corner where the dentist is used to be ebbr Pharmacy and where pizza mine is right now and the post office and going back up Main Street on that side uh JN stones and then we get uh L where lers is the old General Store Town Hall the James Jackson house and up to The Corner Spot uh like I said not everything in those um in this district is historical and there's different um things apply to that the historic the non-historic buildings don't fall under the purview for as far as fixing them or altering the uh exterior unless you wanted to knock it down and put up a a a five-story apartment block is that correct Stacy basically I mean it would all be reviewable but certainly
015I um it would be reviewed just like it would anything else in the historic in the local historic district but if it's a more modern building there's not as much you know you're not worrying as much about um you know the the historic U slate roof or something like that so it it is reviewable but it's you know it's the um it'll be the local historic district commission's you know decision whether or not they can also say go right ahead so it's within the purview um of the local commission decide if they they just want you know let the project go through as is so right and what we've we we've basically um asked ourselves like what is a local historic district a local historic district is a contiguous group like I said of historic
016structures that the town votes to preserve and it's requires approval from the mass historic commission which we already have um this is all submitted to them in the fall and they've approved it and it's going to need a two-thirds vote at the town meeting in the spring so an asan historic sener district commission will be then if this passes what will happen is there will be a a separate District commission set up separate from the historical commission that will have members much like the study committee was some people from the architectural um field real estate somebody who actually owns a building or lives in the actual district and it's exclusively uh made up of we don't we say it be residents but there's only one resident that I know of um that's actually in it
017um uh but it it'll be a separate entity and that's what be who will be doing the reviews and stuff like that um exclusively in the downtown area from the post office in back right okay what does a historic district do preserves the exterior of historically architecturally significant buildings protects the character of the downtown increases property values study after study indicates that the value of properties in lhd have significantly benefited one we quote here is from downtown it says Downtown revitalization main Street's an economic revitalization program based on utilizing each downtown's historic buildings there is no more cost-effective program of the E economic development of any kind in the US today and uh since 1980 Main Street District in more than 2,000 communities across the country have seen a collective investment of $79 billion 285,000
018billions uh 285,000 buildings rehabilitated and more than 640,000 net jobs and nearly 144,000 new business businesses that's from um reasons 24 reasons historic preservation is good for your community what does it not do it does not control property usage we have no control over what business what type of business um all the the district is concerned about is the exterior of the buildings um and what you can see from the street uh it doesn't control what business are allowed it does not prevent new construction I know if somebody like the bank or like the the the NM bank or the Santander one of them decide to close the building that's not going to be prevented or it's not going to be for of new construction there will be allowed of course and what the only
019the only you'd have to submit whoever develops it would have to submit part of the plan to the historic local historic district for approval of the of the design along with the planning board um and all the other regular government uh post that you would do it to uh Studies have shown it does not decreased property values it only applies to the portions of the building that can be seen from the street so it say I I had something on Facebook Michael Herbert asked if Give an example if lunkers for example wanted to expand out back we can't see it from the street fine go for it it's not reviewable they can do that um if you wanted to change the facade or the the the structure of the building um then it would be
020reviewable not saying it wouldn't pass but it would be reviewable existing structures are right now grandfathered until significant alterations are requested there was another thing I saw online that someone said that this was an grandfather we're going to make everybody change their buildings around to make some kind of establishment of a of a downtown conquered and Ashland or something like that that's not true um no everything that's here right now is grandfathered in so you don't have to worry about uh doing anything to your property right now if that's a concern uh where El I and the creation of the district commission the local historic commission will feature M member each of the they'll be they be appointed by the select board one member each from the Ashland Historical Society like I said the chapter
021of the American Institute of Architects covering Ashland board of realtors covering Ashland one property owner from the district and they can also appoint uh other people uh up to four alternative members uh at their discretion the district commission is responsible for overseeing the district's bylaw and it's also responsible for establishing a non-binding set of guidelines the uh local study committee worked on the B the the guidelines they're all this is all the the bylaws and the guidelines the guidelines are non-binding the suggestions for example if someone came in what do I got to do to comply with this historic District uh bylaw those are suggestions some things that they could consider um and some things that the commission would be you know considering too um those are non-bonding they're up on the town's website um
022the local his our study committee put them together and it's basically cobbled together from other towns where we're using things that other towns have already successfully incorporated into their local historic district commissions so we're not Reinventing the wheel here um we're just trying to do some preservation work for down Town Ashlin um before it's all gone and that's basically our our our intent and our mission the bylaws are have been vetted by the the Town Council by the mass State uh historical commission and eventually if this passes its town meeting it'll be going to the Attorney General's office who has the final say and and then it will become registered at the registry of deeds and then it becomes in effect um the map the whole report will go in as a as a as
023a bylaw do document um and that when in summary we trying to do is the historic district creates a thoughtful community-based review process that protects historically significant buildings from Demolition and inappropriate inappropriate alteration it will create a local historic district Commission of local residents to determine how best to protect the unique character of Ash downtown by by providing a review process for changes to exterior architectural features visible from the public way while allowing thoughtful consideration of change okay so with that I would like to ask if anybody is looking to speak in favor of the district please let themselves be known and you can go up to the podium and identify yourself go ahead okay even o Sony 1119 Main Street yes I've been well informed by the committee every meeting I attended to and
024I it is a good idea to make this town more visible by having this to go on to with go on with I want I just wanted to make sure that is if anybody wanted to tear down a building is there still the 90day time period in case they want to tear down building what do you mean the 90-day time period 9 time yes you mean the demolition delay yes that's a year it's a year yep okay or up to a year and yeah and and anything that's in the in the the district would still be subject to the demolition delay bylaw which if it was if it fit the criteria if it was over I think it we add to that actually what um the the way the hierarchy works is that the historic
025district commission will have say on the matter actually it'll it'll supersede the demo delay yeah so um there won't be the same clock on it like you would have had with the demo DeLay So what you'd end up doing is you'd end up uh bringing your proposal uh you're seeking a certificate of appropriateness from the local historic district Commission um to demo the building and what you're you know uh proposing in its place so it actually will it's a separate you'll go through historic district and then you won't have to you won't have to go through Dem delay okay suedes I stand corrected okay um let's see if I can formulate this question coming out right um the exteriors the front of each building every time there is a building does it need need to
026say on on sign a circus sign on every Circle sign on the front of them to say that they are hystorical no no no does this have to have the exterior look well like I said it's anything that's already in downtown as his grandfather there to looking the way it looks right now so the this this would only affect uh changes so wanted to change the facades or the exterior um that's when a review process would go into effect so changes subsequent to the implementation of the bylaw and last one um this is a two3 vot town Meen MH I don't think they do but would the zodin of this town have anything to say about it we're not changing usage or anything like that for zoning well usually it's if it's a bylaw Zone
027might be involved but something like this is separate from a zon and bylaw yes yeah thank you thanks Mark hi Julie nardone 86 aliot Street um I see this not as a restriction but as an opportunity um local historic districts they they really do a lot for the local economy because it's it is a destination and I think towns that don't use their history to enhance their local economy are really missing out and I'm going to use Hudson as an example because I was just there and they have 65 um buildings in their historic district and that the history has really brought that town alive it was 15 years ago most of the buildings were vacant and now it's just booming it's incredible I've heard of someone in natic moving to Hudson and if we're
028g to spend um I think we're up to 17 million on the downtown redo I mean what exactly are we redoing and bringing back to life if the history is can be just eliminated um so I think it's it's a good thing um we have our zoning is very uh watered down compared to some other towns so I think the developers in this town have been able to do pretty much what they've wanted to do and we always seem to be watering it down um this is something that could be done for the town for the people for the community something we could be proud of I know when I go to other towns and I see the entering the local historic district with the name I find that something to be proud of when
029I travel to different cities I always go to the historic downtown um like Visitor Center I want to learn about it and I just think it would increase the pride and The Prestige of the downtown if we went and did this and it's not unusual many towns are doing this all the towns around us I looked and I think it would be great for small business and we really our downtown kind of doesn't have a much of an identity but this would help pull it together we don't really have a brand um so anyways I think it's a great thing and that it would be a a means to pull this whole thing together whatever it is we're doing in the downtown if will pull it together and give it a focal point Thank you
030thank you Julie it just reminds me um when you do come into town there were two signs one on either end I'm saying welcome to the Ashland historic district uh which isn't really official um those signs were just put up I Believe by Mr cudy back in the day um more of an advertising thing but they're not they don't significant they don't signify anything they're just signs um we don't have a local historic district so hi it's Debbie Brogan I'm at 119 Main Street I live in the James Jackson house um lived here all my life met my husband at the high school um it's just a really sad thing for those of us who have lived her all our lives to see what's going on in downtown and I don't think it's going to
031stop I think unless we do something like this we're we're going to lose the character the history all of that from our downtown area which is a sad thing I would have hoped the town had handled things differently in downtown and the same thing when I see that entering Historic downtown Ashland now I kind of have to it sort of it's ridiculous um because it's beginning to be that we're going to lose it so I just want to say that you know thank you guys so much for doing this and any way a regular citizen could help I am willing to help thanks is there anybody on Zoom who would like to say anything just unmute yourself and unmute your camera and just come on down probably have them raise hand yeah so we get
032them in order if they're go ahead naen go ahead I just wanted to thank you all for uh putting your time an effort into this I think it's a great idea and nen you are a property owner and a resident correct right yeah we would ask everyone to identify themselves and give their address as the inperson speakers have done oh 75 Main Street thank you thank you anyone else [Music] okay well now I'll ask for anybody to speak in opposition to this my name is hi mik Jim is he's speaking I'm not hearing him that's it sorry try again I'll start over I'm uh Mike Kane um I own 126 cell storage in mg Kane properties at 162 pwn Street here in town and I think the intent is great to keep downtown Ash you
033know nice and traditional and historic um I just question the need for a a BW that ises five unelected people in town the power to dictate what these proper I don't own property downtown what they can and can't do with their property um and I I think it's kind of unnecessary and and with your dissertation you kind of Mak my argument of why why I think it's unnecessary uh I was born here in 1951 so I've been here a long time and I've seen a changes you know most most for the better but um you went through the various properties in downtown Ashland and I just wanted to run through quickly some of the changes have been made in the last 20 25 years in downtown 37 Main Street that's the dental office was a
034house converted to the dental office very traditional looking property 9800 Baine Street the brick two family across from town hall had all new roof Windows entry paint landscape looks better than it has probably last 75 years 101 Main Street of course our town hall going to be torn down some people activists that active saved it in town leaders of it um 137 Main Street that's a fire station being being re rehabilitated to a uh a brewery it's just getting paint new patio no structural changes 179 main Stones Public House had a lot of exterior work done roof dorm rooms balconies paint landscape looks better than it has in the last 73 years that I've been around um five Homer AV that's the Zen Dental was ever Pharmacy which opened in 1940 building is exactly the
035same way it was with the exception of signage what do have you Railroad Station uh 20 25 years ago put the sidewalk in front of the curbing sto the trucks from Hit the roof they repaired the slight roof and painted the trim looks exactly like it did probably in the 1800s um two properties outside the current historic district 116 Front Street it's a three family currently being rehabed by um Ryan Chiva owner of a very traditional construction of course 134 Front Street asham Lumber new construction very traditional all these properties have been cleaned up without any bylaw just the cooperation of the owners it with some uh input from the U design Review Committee probably on the ashon number and some of the newer three story apartments that we built so so rather than have
036a bylaw where you dictate to people what they can and can't do people that are paying taxes on their private property why don't you incentivize it Ashen has uh several business incentive programs currently so they have a sign and facade program matches 50% up to $5,000 the cost for exterior improvements on the facades and the signage of buildings I believe it's run through Beth Reynolds uh office and they have a grant program for new businesses that um up to $10,000 for first year rent and up to $10,000 for equipment acquisition cost so what if you develop what I'm going to call a historic property improvements program similar fashion where you put in CPA money which be used for historic preservation into a fund so when someone comes down to uh Town Hall to get a
037building permit they want to put vinyl siding on which I don't think you want so you that's going to cost them $ 15 or $22,000 you want wood siding that's going to cost 35 $40,000 you say hey we'll kick in 15 or $220,000 to get this done the way we'd like to see it in other words you use the carrot and not the stick to make things happen that you want to see um I just have a real problem with people's property rights and dictating to them what they can and can't do and it only takes three out of the five members to to to make the ruling so I mean that's three out of like a town of what 19,000 or so people um I I just just doesn't feel right to me you
038know somebody who's seen the changes for Guess 1958 that's when the first first grade bus was going through town to go to the what's now known as the MZ school um uh it's only gotten better especially with the street improvements and the polls coming down don't think we need it um I wish you think of other alteres thank you thank you Mike um I have just a just has anybody been to downtown Walpole recently when you come under 27 and you see the huge apartment buildings right there which I grew up in downtown walpo I used to walk under that railroad bridge on my way home to school that's what happens when there's no restrictions on the downtown area it's way out of proportion to the downtown building we have one of those in ashin
039I'm kind of getting used to it but on the corner where the alberini house was that became the condo or whatever they are apartments right now next to the church uh that's wildly out of place in downtown ashin and that's just my personal opinion but I mean it's all well and good everybody has good intentions I love it and I love the fact that people want to make it kind of like look like it fits in the neighborhood stuff like that but not everybody's going to come in here with that kind of mindset you know and and this is not just for now and what we have now and people doing it now this is for the future too and the reason why we settled on what seems like it's Draconian um is really the
040only the absolute only way to do this in this state there's no other mechanism um to do this so that's why we came up with this it's it's taken a lot of research and it'll be easier just to go on a case-by casee basis but there's no way to do that because the town's not going to let you have 20 different historical commissions for 25 different buildings it's just we we we don't have the we don't have the Manpower or the or the volunteer level for that so I agree with uh Mr K's assessment and you know I I'd like to keep it the way it is too but there is going to be change it's inevitable but how you regulate that change and manage it is what we're trying to just put a little
041bit of a break on um and a little bit of guidance from the people of this town um not to tell people what to do um and is that I mean we have to you have to when you're building something in town I'm not a builder I know some people in this room are but I know you have to go through all kinds of Hoops and and and and uh hurdles to get something built in any town or any City I mean there's planning boards there's zoning there's this that and everything else okay this is another layer but it's for a very small portion of town for a very specific reason that's all we're trying to accomplish um anybody else yeah I just wanted to add that I like the idea of incentivizing and I
042don't see that these two approaches are mutually exclusive they could both be undertaken carrot and stick I'm just checking now it there may be actually I was going to say the same thing there's um The National Trust for stroke preservation which is just a you know a pro preservation group they have um a group and it's been around for 30 40 years it's a main streets program and it's another way it's very down Town oriented um and they have grants they often have a downtown manager you know and they help guide people through that sort of thing um and I would like to check I'm going to check for Mike too about uh CPA funds for preservation whether or not it can go to individuals so I'm going to check that for you too but
043yeah incentivizing is a great idea yes sir my name is John Ellsworth I'm a 22 High Street Extension my family and I came here 50 years ago and I would remind everybody on that table and everybody who is in this room that downtown Ashton was a desert it literally was a defunct rear Road siding with Steels sticking out of the ground for rails that didn't work and it was ugly John Stone's Inn was a biker bar with people urinating off the porch on the Main Street and I could go on and on and on without the artifice and that's what I consider what you guys are coming up with of an asoral commission okay downtown got improved it looks great okay and I just want you to understand that the people who are basically living
044there and running businesses there are well- intended now I want to talk a little bit about some stuff that happened to us uh in my business downtown uh that that really irritated me about 20 years ago we gutted 91 Main Street and we created a real estate office we put in another toilet we had to meet code for cast iron for a a one-story building it was ridiculous just all kinds of ridiculous things to build the internal part of that of that space you talk about if it's can't be seen from the window or can't be seen from the front nobody has any control over it and yet the selectman about a year later after I'd done all of that commissioned a group of three people to walk around downtown engage what they were looking
045at and they came into our office and they said John your office is ugly from the window the problem is that as I read the bylaw that you guys have put together it can be expanded and extended not only to the exterior look but to what it looks like Through the Windows okay you shake your head read the damn thing okay it's totally open-ended it is no it's not no I I please I'm not here to debate you okay I'm telling you what my interpretation of the bylaw is okay you can you can control color you can control I understand you don't like plastic okay when my wife and I added a very large garage we lived in an old house you can't get trim made out of wood any longer to match what was
046built 200 years ago so we went to plastic and we went to a company in Connecticut and we had the plastic replicated in the same trim form that we used in the new in our new garage and yet I see that plastic is anma to the bylaws and there's all kinds of all kinds of requirements hey maybe I'm misreading it I've got to read the whole thing in great detail but I so I just heard violent you guys don't like vinyl good God all the houses being built today go with vinyl so I you know I'm going to stop talking about the specifics because that's going to happen in April all right I'll have had a chance to read the darn thing okay I just saw it for the first time in any great deal
047detail tonight now let's talk a little bit about the granite buildings the only reason we're here is because of the Granite buildings the Lombard buildings that's the only reason we're here because the historic commission was basically not happy with what happened I will make an A A not an accusation but I'll make a judgment all right if the town in its Infinite Wisdom had worked with a developer and considered maybe assisting rather than fighting we could have saved all three of those Granite fronts it only takes money I see you look you look doubtful okay it only takes money if we can spend a half a 500 thou five excuse me $5 million on a on a on a a house that's been totally wrecked on the inside is no longer historic in order to
048save the barn behind it and I would add to prevent how many how many cond window and apartments did we prevent that was the ultimate objective not historical it was to prevent something5 to6 million in the Valentine property is crazy but we did it we're not a poor town a half a million dollars maybe buying the the the granite fronts and working with the builder instead of telling the Builder to get bent okay go away we don't want your we don't want your housing it might have happened he might have done it the problem is that this thing is is is is a hammer it's a sledgehammer and the little bit that I have read of it tells me it's a sledgehammer now I know you look you look skeptical Mr neelon okay well Mr
049the problem is let me finish okay every time I've had a chat with you on the on on the on on on the zoom committee you try to talk over people just listen this is a public hearing listen okay I'm listening there are alternative ways of making this happen you've chosen the most ronian thank you I would just like to say for the record that uh I was not trying to talk over anybody but uh I was addressed directly there and I was answering him however um I I wish he would take the time to read the whole thing before uh casting experss thank you go ahead Debbie um I'd just like to say to Mr excuse me it's been available on the on the town website for month over a month now it's not
050it's on the town website I'm sorry you could call the town hall and find somebody to help you with it if you couldn't find it go ahead I'm sorry just like to say to Mr Ellsworth I think what he's trying to maybe say is that um he doesn't like the fact that he thinks that the buildings it's going to be difficult for people who run businesses or whatever and as far as the mill buildings go um here's what we wanted we wanted our Mill buildings that this town was built around saved saved okay and that is why there was so much so many problems and so many people raising their voices because if you had lived here all your life and seeing those Mill buildings you didn't want a facade you didn't want to just
051see a granite front there are businesses over there many many many businesses over there who are going to have to get out we don't want a facade we want the mill buildings and the businesses that are there to to stay there because many of us my dentists I've been going to for 40 over 40 years in that building there are many many people who have businesses that are just going to lose you think they're going to stay in ashlon where are they going to stay in ashon we wanted our Mill buildings and we wanted those businesses to say that's why we fought it that's why we were against it that's why we're still against it but it doesn't matter um one thing too I just like to let the audience know that we National Historical
052commission did have many meetings with uh the owners of the mill buildings in the initial stages of their uh of of their planning and the original plan was to save the first two buildings completely and the third building was up for discussion we didn't have anything to say about the brick building um on the right where the gym is and all that stuff that was never part of the discussion um as far as other board in the town which happened after that we had nothing to do with it we were fine with what was going on is if he would save as much as he could whatever was going to be Financial viable for them and Joanna and I were both there at the time this is before uh some of these members were on
053the board um and you know we talked with the owner we toured the I've toured that property probably three times now and there's been three different plans and the last one he came in with the 40b stuff and we that that takes it off the table for for a lot of the local initiative um to have any say in in the project but we were working with the developer um the owner um beforehand we weren't putting up roadblocks we wanted to save as much of those Granite buildings as we could I mean Joan if you can second this thank you Jim um so one comment I do want to make in terms of one of the aspersions made earlier the historical Commission was not reformed because of the mill buildings the the call for people
054to reform to reform the commission came well in advance of that it just happen to take the town nearly a year to go through the talent bank and interview people who had an interest in preserving that which is Ashland myself I'm an 18-year resident of town having uh moved and lived in many historical communities and I've seen the destruction of downtowns coastal communities uh where where big wealth comes in buys up large swats of lands and erect a thousand conduit units completely obscuring a view you know and that's the memory I have as a young person living in Massachusetts I didn't want to see that coming into Ashland in my midlife was my motivating factor of I want I want to preserve some small town Massachusetts field that's where I feel at home and many
055other people may feel differently but back to Jim's original question though yes that uh several us had on multiple occasions met with the current owners of the mill buildings and he had uh presented his various ideas to us not that we have any skin in the game we don't have any teeth in the game we can't say yes we can't say no it was a courtesy that to involved us and what we were thinking what what kind of pulse beat we thought that people of Ashland could accept in terms of changes to those structures obviously uh people who know know the history behind those structures were such that uh okay we don't want them change we don't want them gone and the woman who had spoken just a few minutes ago so yes we feel
056for everyone who works in those buildings and every person who patronizes the businesses in those buildings we we share those concerns we're not anti- bus we're actually very Pro bus but we're also Pro preservation in the same context um and that's really that's just my my personal opinion thank you thanks Jo I'd like to address one of the concerns that Mr Kaine raised concerning the uh uh authority of a small group of five to make decisions and just observe that this is also the case with pretty much all of the boards in the town the select board has five the planning board historical the um the Conservation Commission this is typical of town government so it's nothing unusual to have a board of that many people that it's an odd number is essential so that
057you can get a majority okay Adam thank you Jim uh Adam Sachs live it toester Lane um I do serve as a president of the as Business Association but I'm here uh with my own voice I appreciate the opportunity to um speak to you and and get some clarity on a few things um I I would um like some clarity just on the on the what is the structure of of this right um just in terms of the time that each person has speaking uh my understanding was that this was there were n there were fours speaking first and then I'm sorry if yeah you can speak as long as you want okay there's no there's no's I don't want to speak for a long time no no there's no time limit I mean we
058can speak we have the room till 10: so if you want to go to 10: all right um so um yeah I've been here in Ashlin for 23 years uh lived at Pine Lake Town Homes initially and then we moved to uh to Wester Lane um I grew up in Worster and grew up in a uh family business that my grandfather started 75 years ago uh ultimately was sold uh last year but it was a window business and it was at 836 Main Street in downtown Wier downtown Wier got was a little tough um they ultimately moved it right next to Coney Island and um I I've had the opportunity to sit on some of your sub the subcommittees and get a little bit more clarity in in the sort of the details of uh
059the guidelines and so forth and um ultimately my uh that uh building that my father moved um his business to became a historical district and he wanted the the windows were sort of breaking down and he wanted to replace the windows within the building with his own windows and he was denied um and he was required to put um windows in there that would have cost four five times what a normal window would have caught to meet the same Aesthetics so ultimately I just like to get some clarity and what the you know what would that look like when you talk about the exterior that would include Windows would it not so can you just provide a little bit more clarity about that and ultimately my father's business he moved that bill he moved to
060a different location in wiester so that wiester lost um a business you know in Wester the 75 years based upon sort of the historic district that was imposed in my family business so I just like to get some clarity and I'll just say Obviously each each district uh is going to be different um city by City Town by Town um I know that if you lived on Beacon Hill in Boston you have a different set of rules than if you lived in the south end or if you you know every every commission's gonna it's gonna it's going to change we're Ashen so we're not going to be I I don't think but I mean it's it depends on who serves on the commission obviously but Stacy go ahead with the uh if you can give
061some clarity on that I can't I can't speak to I don't know I'm not familiar with worcester's um uh uh hisor preservation bylaw um but I do yes windows are reviewable um but I do want to add also there is um uh a hardship clause in here that it's you can make a case that if that's just prohibitive because you know it all depends on the collective for example in downtown denam you know that cute little area right downtown um there's if you replace windows they want you to do true Leed uh divided lights that's very expensive whole other issue luckily I'm not on there but uh for example um I was chair of uh the Hopkinson historic district for several years served on it before I was chair and um we allowed vinyl that
062looks with you know it's got uh molding on it it was just applied on the front and because everybody wanted to be reasonable about it so it's a matter of being reasonable about but that depends who you get on there and I will add actually I want to add one other thing the bylaw is set up that it's set up by the State inv vented by the state it has um slots that are set up for Architects Realtors um however if you can't find anyone after I think it's after uh the way it's set up is that the you uh make a request of the Boston Society of Architects the AIA uh if someone wants you know would someone like to come and sit on our ashin board and nobody answers the select board has
063um the right after that same thing with a realtor if you don't have a realtor who applies the select board can then take from a pool of applicants so there are at large seats as well so it's not just um uh Property Owners dist so you can get a wider representation right so but yes but yeah absolutely and um I think there was also a question about plastic we in hopkington especially on um some of you are familiar with the little blue house that's right near the library that burned down a couple during Co um um they reconstructed that that was the owner um owner's decision to reconstruct it that was and that's all plastic yeah don't look too closely but it was to be reasonable U part of this is placem you know it's
064like um I think Julie none was talking about like Hudson has become Hudson's transformation is amazing so that's part of it you want to you're trying to keep the feel of it but depends how so if if the commission came back with something that was uh potentially honorous or or expense too expensive for the owner to be able to absorb you can make you can could there could there be uh something like Mike uh suggested and some sort of incentive um opportunity where the state the the town could absorb some of that cost if that would be a decision that there's no mechanism for it in here and I did double check the CPA um and that does um it can go to CPA historic preservation money can go to uh private citizens like private
065project um but it still has to be uh reviewed they have to uh the community preservation commission would need to review the project to ensure that it the design changes meet the Secretary of Standards so you're back around the same thing as well yeah so so it's just for me you know I support making sure that we have you know a feel but I I I am concerned about cost and ultimately expensive windows are expensive and ultimately you might have the opposite effect where you have a business owner say I'm going to put my hands up I'm going to leave and then you have an abandoned building so that's not what you want that's not help that's not what anybody wants right so that's my argument so it's it's in it's in the town's best
066interest to to go along to you know try try to keep the businesses happy I mean that's why we're so upset about the mill buildings um because that's all a bunch of businesses that are just going to be displaced but at the same time um there is an appeal process and of hardship is shown and you know common sense I would think would Prevail I would hope hope but then again doesn't you know there's no way to answer you know every question in the future what's going to happen you know it's it's the intent is not to drive people into bankruptcy to repair their Windows um that's I have thank you for your time appreciate you're welcome um we have anybody else would like to comment good evening good evening William Goldberg uh property owner
067business owner Main Street Wine and Spirits right downtown couple of questions uh earlier I think you had said that non-historical buildings might be exempt might not be the word but uh and then I think you asked uh Stacy and you gave an answer but it wasn't a very clear answer so I would like a little Clarity there Jim we can't hear her online oh sorry thank you thank you I was trying to be good and keep my mic off in between um uh yes it would have to be uh you'd have to just um the way we do it in hopkington is it's just a form you fill out online and just say this is what I want to do upload a photo if you've got one from like your window guy or whatever um
068and then um the uh local historic district commission can decide that it's so minor that it doesn't need a public hearing doesn't need a meeting and stamp it and it goes on its way um or if they want to see more you could come to a meeting um and they talk about it but yet it would be everything would be reviewable once it's in the district it's all reviewable even though it's non-historic um but yeah it may be it may be that it's so small um and certainly uh in this bylaw includes things that are not reviewable I mean you've got a flat roof but if you had a you know if you were changing out the vinyl um the asphalt shingles in kind that's not a big deal if you want to paint it
069it isn't not reviewable there's a bunch of things that aren't reviewable um so it may fall it depends how extensive your alteration but it but these non-historical historical buildings are still controlled yes they're all part by the L all one together yeah uh bylaws I think um Mr neelson you said they were nonbinding no not the bylaws guidelines the guidelines are nonbinding yes um but can submitted plans still be denied so if I submitted plans to make a change you the non the the guidelines are non-binding but can you still use those guidelines to deny what I'm trying to do if I were doing something yeah the the the guidelines are things like um if you had like a mansard roof we'd like you to replace it with another mansard roof or something like that
070um uh following um the short answer is yes because in in the actual bylaws everything's reviewable so um it's within the any yeah anything that's um an exterior feature so it's on the exterior of the building um is reviewable and it may be that the commission decides it's not a big deal and maybe they do yeah it depends on uh who you end up with another question uh the hardship appeal uh is is that a lengthy process are there a lot of obstacles in the way I haven't is it a costly process I think that's that's a good question I I've only ever dealt with small things like um accessibility ramps and things like that and those weren't easy yes please please do please do put an accessibil ramp on your house you know so
071that was um uh yeah I guess it depends on the size of the project I think that would depend on that's a good question that we're going to have to look into I a good yeah the the process the process of appealing yeah because that's not in the bylaw but that should that is something that would be something to work yeah because it's not in the standard bylaw from the state yeah and I'd have to I'd have to check with the state let me double check on that to to basically see what they say about that because that's a good question yeah we we didn't you know would make a hardship appeal uh difficult if you know me personally I'd like the hardship feel to be easy you know and but I I want to
072I can't answer without knowing the legal thing from the state um which I don't have at the time just uh one last thing a lot of what I've heard tonight is is based on sentimentality and feelings and uh we are we're a nation of moving forward I would just uh leave it with that thank you for your time thank you my name is Margo Ellsworth I live at 22 High Street Extension here in town have been here over 50 years um what is I'm hearing throughout this whole everybody's conversation here is that that we have many tiers of of and processes through which we add to our properties we can there's control over what we can do and what we can't do uh and we've all accepted that but the fact of the matter is
073this this program that you're you're we're discussing tonight is all about well they may let you or you might be able to to or you'd have to apply for it is just more control over our own personal property that we pay taxes on that we have mortgages for and more control over my property I don't like I don't want I would never do anything that's absurd and you say yeah well we can't be sure well the fact of the matter is we can't be sure what this board would do either in controlling what we want to do with our older quote historic buildings so I am fully against a Historic Society I've looked at it uh in the past on a state level and it's called control so I am not for it thank you
074my name is Bill Wallace 136 pwn Street here in town and I was really just looking for a point of clarification I'm just beginning to get my feet wet in this whole process um but part of your PowerPoint earlier on in the meeting you said that and I may have missed the complete point but it was brought up that something can be turned down or approved by 2third vote of the town meeting town meeting yes Town meting this has to be approved by two-thirds of the voters at the town meeting okay and could you just clarify for me what it was that would be either rejected or approved at the town meeting it's the bylaw okay and it's the bylaws that are on the town website right yes there's a PR yeah okay well that
075was basically wanted to get cleared up so thank you for that um the other thing that has been in my mind uh if you go through Hoppington and Holliston uh the approaches to that Center those centers of town I think speak volumes for the appearance of those two communities I'm talking about the Magnificent Victorian homes uh and if you go into na same thing um there is a cohesiveness there that is presented and I just have a question in my own mind about looking at Ashlin which is a has a different history um and to my mind quite frankly and I'm just speaking for myself the center of Ashlin doesn't have any history that you can see by walk you can walk through it and look at the individual buildings such as you have in
076the brochure but I don't see how coming up with a commission that can dictate signage um materials for building off and alterating buildings the fronts of buildings and I don't even know about the Interiors um I just don't I think what we have now is very good and we've been here in this town since 1975 so um I just don't think that this commission um is really a desirable thing and again that's just my opinion so thank you thank you Jim can I speak Helen yeah um is it what before you speak Helen though we'll get to the commission members um does anybody else have anything to say either for or against any I want to make sure everybody has a chance to speak that's that that made it out tonight Mark you've already gone
077once right yeah that's why that's why I looked around I'm on Zoom can I say something sure go ahead um hi my name is D I am on Carl galani and Ash um so right behind the mail building um I Heard the 40b town Hall and it seemed like they were keeping the stone the uh Granite buildings is that accurate partially they're keeping uh the first building and the latest plan that I've heard is they're keeping part of the second building um about a quarter of the way or maybe a third of the way in from the street the rest of it's all going oh the third building completely going and the the second part of the second building is going at least that's the last I mean it could change I don't know but
078that's the last plan we we were told about yeah so that's good to know it sounds like it wasn't the case here yeah um okay okay that's it well I mean that this this committee would have nothing to do I mean it feels like the town is already kind of in process of uncont control the mill buildings are kind of out of out of the discussion right now because it's been taken as a 40 project which which supersedes a lot of the power of the town has to negotiate a good amount of the building and they keep smoke Z I was happy to hear that yeah the original plan like I said before was uh all of the first two buildings and the third one was up for debate but he was going to reuse
079the granite from the third building If he if he did take it down um but I don't know where he stands on that to tell you the truth right now all right from what I understand it was the first two coming from Mur Street yeah yeah so okay that's all thank you anybody else on Zoom no okay um quickly Mr uh okay again M son see how quickly this is I'm thinking I'm gonna frame my questions out of the brochure okay I'm looking on page three of this it says how is local historic districts different from National Registry places historic districts and Texas Nation I I'll bring it down to a short sentence the very last paragraph The Local District on the other hand is established with two3 majority what's the local District historical places
080for this town what are they what are the local historical places y you me I that Ashen is is noted for yeah in the dam the dam over at the reservoir yeah that's it is it the dam I don't know how that happened but the dam at the reservoir was on the national register water shed something something I don't knowa repres you know yeah um it says it says in here as dam and Spillway it's that's it yeah yeah um is any burial grounds in in this yes the cemetery behind the Federated Church which we're calling what are we calling now Howen The Village burial ground it's actually the the original name the village burial ground which is a whole different discussion which has been under uh different uh it's a different set subset of
081the of the historical commission would've been restoring that okay thank you thank you and under the proposed bylaw that's in the brochure 8 point on page 21 8.1 on the top we get 8 8.2 excuse me is this is the case the construction or addition or exist existing buildings and commissions the appropriate this of the scale shape structure it's land area building the and structure is all that zone and talk that's definitely legal land use it's boiler but um but yeah that's yeah a building is um for example the uh the ashin dam is uh in uh land use and preservation law um a structure is say the dam in the spillway or is a building is Town Hall so it's whether or not humans inhabit it I guess that's the and if humans don't
082inhabited beit in caves okay um and the commission may appropriate cases impos dimensional setbacks requirements is that true actually a good example of this in hopkington when we put in um um uh put the new library in which is a much substantially larger building um than the than it was um there was talk especially as it um fronted on some of the uh houses that uh uh are along the face the common there um there was talk about P pushing back the the brand new rear l a little bit so there wouldn't be a shadow on those houses um but that's that's what they're talking about setback wise um so it is it's definitely a um there's an interplay between zoning setbacks and then historic district setbacks so there are two different okay so there
083is a little bit of Zone in in setbacks thank you okay it's not it's not zoning but it is they do it's you're gonna have to still go through zoning I think okay last one last one very last one you promise very promised because it's been mentioned people up in the board here to be talking about different towns we're ashon keep it with ashon center and focus on ashon Center thank you thank you thank you Mark um anybody else last call for public discussion on and off if the some of the commission members want to have something to say I'll just answer uh Bill's question about what's historic in downtown ashon I gave a a walking tour of downtown ashon in October um pointing out the different buildings that are and and there's quite a
084few of them they're not cohesive they don't all look the same but there's a history to each and every one of them including the church um I mean you know and and so it's absolutely so these that that's that's the bigger goal in my mind what we're trying to do is preserve some of these historic buildings everything else is is it's it's it's a byproduct of having to do this as a historic district um and there's no way to get around the historic district of preserving these other buildings unless you do it individually now there's been some I I agree that the Valentine estate that's not in this we have nothing to do with that the historical commission wasn't even consulted um but at one point someone did say to me why don't you just
085have the town buy these buildings and then put restrictions in them when they resell them I said oh that's that that's not going to happen um the town's not in the real estate business of buying and selling buildings and the one that they did try to save which was Henry Warren's house on Chestnut Street the developer they sold it to I don't think it was him person but it was his developer uh changed things in Henry's house so he basically de uh what's the word I'm looking for he basically changed it from being a historical building to a non-historical building we put a sign up in front of it so it's right on Chestnut Street by the Warren Conference Center but that building was um was was the town had put a deed on with
086a bazillion restrictions and easements and stuff like that and they just ignored it and they went went ahead and did it anyway so that's that's why we're looking at that and saying well they're just going to ignore it if if you just say that because once it's done it's done and you can't go back and refix it um because it's it's not historical anymore and that's why we we're only we're only concerned with the exteriors um you can do whatever you want inside you know and if you're not it's not to prevent businesses it's not to restrict things we have restrictions on everything we do in life there's restrictions on our property whether we know it or not we don't pay our taxes the State can come and take it and if we if the
087state feels like doing it they can take your house by imminent domain you know that's the country we live in um it's not it's not trying to impose restrictions on people it's to preserve some of downtown ashin we specifically chose downtown Ashland because we figured it would it would be a starting point there's no plans to expand but it's a starting point I'm focusing on the history of Ashlin in downtown before it's all gone I might not be here to see it obviously and nobody in this room but 100 years down the road maybe some of this will still be here if we create uh a historic district and preserve some of the buildings downtown not all of them and obviously some of them going to go into disrepair but that's that's projecting and that's
088some that's that's you know you have to kind of think ahead sometimes to proect for the future and I know everybody's not going to like it and that's that's part of it but you know we're trying to do the best we can here Our intention is preserve uh the the historic uh aspect of downtown ashin while it's still here and before it's gone so what that's all I really have to say commission members Helen you're up you ready to go you've been sitting there with baited breath I know no not too bad thank you uh Helen Nicole I am uh on the ashelin historic commission and um so I've listened to all of the opinions tonight and I thought um some of them were were interesting um and I I noticed there was a list
089of houses and excuse me and buildings that uh Mr uh Kane listed that had been um worked on restored look nice now but he didn't mention the buildings that are gone he didn't mention the buildings that are going um so these are the things that we think about these are the things that it's our job to think about um I also heard that um historic our historic district is based on feelings a fact is that historic buildings are disappearing once they're gone you cannot bring them back the mill buildings which will be mostly gone they're very historic they significantly historic they're built with granite that was mil in Ashland they're the workplace of Henry Warren who has a significant historic um presence in Ashland and I heard someone say that Ashlin hasn't B his streight
090which makes me really sad because maybe we're not doing a good enough enough job educating the town about the history because there is a lot of history Jim should have some brochures there of the walking tour of the historic downtown Ashland those buildings were all uh within the district that we want to create we don't want to create the buildings uh the district based on feelings we want to create the the district based on the buildings that will no longer exist or will be seriously altered if we don't and I and I would I would venture to say that no one looks Salem Massachusetts or Marblehead Massachusetts or any other n Tucket places that are are highly historic areas and they don't they don't say oh they just kept those places like that because of
091feelings that's not it and I understand that people people worry about having other people tell them what they can do with their property we don't want to tell you what we can do we want to make it thoughtful you have zoning laws this isn't much different from that and we just are asking for a little bit of thoughtfulness in the downtown area to keep the historic nature of that downtown Ashlin and um and that's and I think that's really important I think history is important and I think community in a sense of place is important it it's been said that at its best preservation engages in the past in a conversation with the present and a mutual concern for the future and th this was said by William merel the first Keeper of the national
092register of historic places and I do believe that it is important it is important for the for the people who are here now to look at those buildings and know where the where the culture and the history of the Town came from the place that they lived who lived here before them and it's important for the people in the future to know about these same places and there's only one way to do that because once these things are gone they are forgotten and I can tell you that the ferenzi house is gone that was never mentioned how many people remember that house anymore there's a few there's not many in the future no one will ever know about it and that's what's going to happen in downtown Ashland and I already know that the mill
093buildings are are partially going and we we know that other buildings in ashin that are that are leaving that aren't in that district and I believe there's a few other that are in danger right now uh downtown uh that will be coming up in the very near future and so we just want them to be thoughtfully looked at you know it it's not that we want anyone to not be able to run a business we don't want anyone to not be able to afford to repair their building and I do agree with the incentives in fact I've brought that up um recently at the uh comprehensive plan steering committee uh public meeting that they had in December that I attended and I I really voiced a a lot of opinion about incentives and and historic
094uh preservation and then there's also tax credits and things that haven't been discussed if you run a business it's not for people who live in a home but if you are running a business out of a historic uh building and you and you want to restore it or do alterate you know do some work to that building there are tax credits for you to do it correctly there there are incentives and there could could be additional incentives and I really would like to see that for Ashlin because I do believe that it's important and it's not just based on feeling it's based on fact that the buildings and the history will disappear if we don't do something and that's all I have to say thank you uh thank you Jim um I just want to
095say that I that I think Helen you did a great job on on what you said and I can't agree more uh that's that's even possible you know know um and and um just one thing I just want to just call to mind I think Curtis here will will probably nod with me on this and that is you know my family heritage is partly Native American this community was all Native American before our ancestors settled it and and what remains do we have of them today we don't other than elements in the town forest and other um minute evidence of their presence if we don't put in a historic district then the features in this town that were built by our ancestors will cease to exist by some future generation and they'll be like who
096were those people who was Henry Warren you know so we need to be mindful of the mark of every generation of people not just one person or one family but Community as a whole because that's what Ashland is is a community of many cultures many people and we all put our mark on this community so we owe it to our future generations to retain those marks those remembrances because if if those ancestors didn't exist we wouldn't exist today thank you yeah yes up there in growing situation I understand you you want to handle only a section of downtown and you want to have some sort of control and preserve the history but then I remember at a town meeting not too many years ago that a historically involved based group wanted anybody that had a
097house that was X number of years old or older uh you had to go through that through that part of the town and they tried to have you couldn't sell your house for four months six months or whatever you had to put it through this particular board that was trying to control older homes I don't think that passed as I recall which is a good thing because you get to a point where you give an inch and you take a mile and my thoughts are that over time this is going to expand there are going to be uh uh restrictions on what you can do more so or again you have to get permission to sell your house because it's a it's a 150 year old house or whatever and you're shaking your head no
098the fact of the matter is this is Step number one and it really bothers me want to address that there's nothing in this bylaw about selling properties I would just say too that this is not an easy process and I I don't envy any Envy anyone who tries to do this again I know that uh you have to go through many many many oops and uh and as many things and many components to this it's not easy and uh it's it's a it's a change you know and it's I will say I I can't speak to I you know in terms of being the next step I don't know of any laws that do that so I I suppose the do is open to anything but all I can speak to is that door is
099open to a lot of things but that's not what we're talking about is and there's nothing in that about that and it doesn't automatically expand if if somebody wanted to expand that have to go through the whole process all over again yep uh you don't this whole process I'm talking about the whole step one 2 3 4 five you know it's not an easy process they didn't make it easy to do and that's why it's not done a lot but a lot of towns around here do have it and they do feel that that they want to protect some of their assets historical assets and that's all what we're trying to do is Janes still on on the um Jim Jim can I just ask one question sure and either you or Stacy could answer
100this um do you know if any has districts in the state or even in the country that would make you ask permission to sell your building never heard of it I I've never heard of this no no okay I've never heard of it either well no somebody could never mind all right uh Joan yes hi Jim um yes I'm JN G Frid I'm on the historical commission um and um one one backtrack I just want to mention um the historic commission will weigh in on the m buildings and try and hope to help help model those in a in a way that's um somewhat more um amenable to the history history of those buildings um but that's not why we're here um right now I understand that and I think Helen um versed it probably
101um better than I can but I I think there are still many buildings in downtown which we would all like to see saved um in their historic um architecture um we met may not notice them so much until they're gone um you know 128 Maine it's gone um the the building that was there is gone and we can't get that back when the mill buildings are gone we can't get them back um but I would like to mention two um that are still there and I think maybe that might what when I go through downtown Ashland I look at these buildings and I say wow those are really just beautiful buildings that have been here for a really long time and have a beautiful history to them and I would really hate to all of
102a sudden see a three four five story building in that place that and they're just gone um the Federated church is one um these two buildings are not owned by the town so the town itself aside from this bylaw would have no say over basically what happened there um except for the planning board Etc that tries to do what they can but there's you know there's a limit um so and Jon Stones um Jon Stones has a lot of history some of it good some of it bad um but history's history and when it's when you know when it's gone you just can't get it back um I also think that incentives are something that makes sense I think that was a great idea and I think that it's something maybe that the historical commission
103could look at down the road trying to set up something that would that would help in this vein um and I hope that that that would be the case um that the town would would be willing to work and with us to to make make that happen um those are my thoughts and thank you thank you John yeah um a couple of points I'd like to make first of you are Kurt Hoffman 58 Hill Del Road uh the nature of the American experiment is a dialectic between individual and Community rights and as long as we keep talking to each other and able to voice our opinions on either side or in the middle we're still who we are and so this process that we've had tonight I think is a good example of that now
104I wanted to address one other issue and that is the question of the Integrity of the district while some sometimes towns historic districts are kind of set in a particular time Point ours is not but what our district as proposed will do is to preserve what is termed in the historic preservation Community as an historic fabric that is that it will represent for future generations of Ash lenders the ongoing process of history from the earliest structures which would be the Ocean House I believe probably yeah two things that fall only within the most recent 50 years which is what the national register allows for histo or defines as historic and so you would get a sampling from our historic district of that entire historic process going through time and that is very educational and I
105certainly think that it's a good idea to have that kind of diversity in the district that's all I wanted to say it's rather unique too and it's just part of ashen's history that it hasn't it's grown in different different time periods and different things have happened what's lost has been replaced and uh you know not trying to freeze anything in you know in Amber or something like like that but uh it's it it has to start somewhere and that's why we're trying to do this so I like to thank everybody here um for coming tonight and before we go I have to just basically ask uh the commission can we get a motion to close the hearing please second okay all those in favor commission members Jim Neilson I heleni thank you folks and just
106to remind you we meet on the second Tuesday usually of every month we discuss this every month you're more than welcome there's a public discussion period and we're gonna I'm gonna try to have we're meeting on Thursday oh this this week we actually have a meeting in two days on Zoom it's always posted on the town website and it's always a zoom meeting so you don't have to get out of your house to come come to the meeting um and if feel free to take a walking tour or a guide or a um or a u report thank you y e e just want to say nice job Jim thank you e e for