001good evening everyone and welcome to ashin planning board meeting of Thursday December 5th 2024 a reminder to everyone the meeting is being broadcast and recorded first on our well and uh what time is it Peter 7:2 all right we will call the meeting to order at 7:23 uh first on our agenda tonight is the clerk's report thank you madam chair we've received two correspondents since the last planning board meeting um one of them was a request to put on our agenda about like Scenic Road so I'm not sure I think there was correspondence back but the final one was so I don't know how the board feels about that but that's well we do have Scenic roads always on our agenda as a matter of note um but it is um something that I talked
002to Peter about that it might be a good idea to have a informational discussion at some point with the um with the tree Warden and um discuss that process more as an educational um event for all of us awesome right uh anything else nope thank you all right uh next on our agenda is public comment so this is comment uh on any topic related to the planning board but preferably for articles that we won't be discussing tonight because there'll be public comment separately for those issues I don't see any yeah nobody's on okay at this so the C Street thing is an issue for tonight that we can discuss later there'll be public comment under that topic this is just for General comment okay um all right so moving on on our agenda item four
003is the continued public hearing for the Ashlin dog park Peter can you give us an update on where we are yeah sure so tonight um I'll reintroduce uh Mr Michael rner he is the designer that's been working to team hello Michael um I can tell you from the last PL board meeting uh Michael the town I heard the comments and concerns of the planning board and we've made a number of changes uh well a number of changes have been made to the plan um they're outlined within a memo that the planning board did receive November 27th um list uh i bullet points uh listed 1 through 10 um starting off with the uh the re the reduced uh parking area footprint from 20 cars to 16 and then kind of uh down from there um
004with that said the um Ashen D Park committee uh Michael and Jen uh ball J Ball assistant to manager on the call she um as a team we pres they presented their plan to the uh Ashen design Review Committee um the Ashen design Review Committee did Issue a report um that's in everyone's packet uh right here dated September 3rd um this this this report has been shared obviously with the planning board it has also been shared with M Mr Michael ragner uh myself and Michael did review this um yesterday um kind of going through um some of the comments that were made um so obviously this this plan is is moving forward um a lot of changes have been made and so at this point I do I'll just kind of I'll I'll let Michael
005kind of go through the changes um I will say um in addition and maybe we can uh Jen will want to talk about this or Michael but the Stanton grant that the that the grant funding that the town did receive they also did to weigh in on the plan um and they did have a couple of um requirements um regarding the P Stone the material that is used within the dog park um as as a I would say as an injury standard um that needs to be used and obviously making sure that there's water there and there's there's a there's a shade structure I believe uh so with those things um I think Michael can probably cover those with with an update um of the revised plan so within front of everyone here tonight um
006we do have the revised plan we have a color rendering of the dog park um and I will uh well first I'll ask I'll ask Miss Jen ball Jen do you have any updates do you want to give to the pling board no I think you covered everything um and so Michael if uh without any further Ado um uh you do have access to share your screen um wonderful so please do and uh you can please outline the changes that have been made uh to the planning board good evening everybody uh members of the board it's Michael rner with rner Design Associates um and uh Peter you took my intro so so that's great and I'll just say that we'll I'm going to go through a brief presentation that really just highlights the changes that
007we've made um and and these are changes that were um some of the comments from the Stan Foundation the design Review Committee and the dog park committee um dovetail uh nicely I think and then and then of course our changes that we are um in reaction to your comments as well so without any further delay this is the former plan that you had originally uh we reviewed a couple of weeks ago and and then uh your comments about uh mostly about uh removal of trees uh the size of the parking lot um just overall scale of the project I think um and then we had gone back and thought about these things and sat with the dog park committee and like I said the Stan foundation and we've come up with a slightly uh well
008revised plan I don't want to say slightly we've made quite a few changes here um and I can just run down through these um the parking lot has been reduced from uh 20 spaces to 16 spaces um and we basically shortened up the parking on the the West End over here and what that allowed us to do is was in addition to providing more green space on the plan was that we kind of relaxed the Contour signature in the storm water basin so that it's not quite as engineered looking it's has a little more of a natural look to it and you can kind of see the difference from this square shape into this you know a little more and if you zoom into the Contours you can see that that as well um reduce
009the amount of tree clearing on the site to retain more existing trees we've gone from um this tree line here maybe a little bit hard to tell but we've basically shifted everything and gained another 10 ft uh in width across the whole back of the park to retain uh additional existing vegetation uh We've added shade trees in the large dog park to create more shade in this area so sort of a mitigation for uh some tree cutting uh in response to the St foundation and the dog park committee uh We've added a shade structure to the large dog park to provide um some permanent shade if you will you know trees take a while to provide shade so we wanted to provide a small uh shade structure and I'll show you a little more detail
010of that um shortly um the Stan Foundation had asked about providing some add play items uh within the parks and we've we've added those and it's basically Boulders like we anticipate I would anticipate that we're going to dig up a lot of Boulders on the site we may as well put them to use and um these are just kind of scattered um informally throughout the park there's um there's another play item which I'll get to a little bit uh further in the presentation um we uh again the stand Foundation had asked that we enlarge the small dog park from 2,000 to 2500 s ft and we did this simply by Shifting the fence line a little bit back further into the woods so now we have 2500 square ft without any additional grading or tree
011removal anything like that um the it was a comment from the stand Foundation about the parking spaces and they were located a little bit off center of the entrance from the entrance to the park and we relo located those so just sort of a minor um handicap accessibility uh move there and then uh there was a comment in from the Conservation Commission uh which hadn't get gotten addressed last time where we had our our phyto remediation plantings were inside the fence line of the dog park and we shifted them to the outside of the fence line so they wouldn't be damaged by any dogs or um you know dog waste or anything like that so and we spoke with uh Becca Solomon about this and she was uh had encouraged us to do this even
012though the planting is inside the no disturbed 25t no disturb line it was a good move to um just plant those ferns Etc outside of the fence line um and then we had added some additional plantings to the bottom of the sediment for Bay um it's not showed in this particular graphic but it is on the planting plan um these are the some of the technical drawings that we've revised that are in your packet um it's basically what I've gone through the grading plan and you can see that uh Contour signature in there that gives a little bit more of a uh I'll call it a relaxed feeling in the in the storm water basins and I wanted to focus on this area right here which is the where the people are so this was
013the this is the plan that you have in front of you today which has a 12 by 16 shade structure here this is the idea of what that might look like it's uh I'll zoom in a little bit basically a wood um uh Timber construction with a standing seam metal roof you I think it's a pretty simple and and handsome looking structure and that's what we had proposed there and then when we went to uh design review a couple of days ago they pointed out and uh made a good point that well we're providing shade in the large dog park but not in the small dog park and we could do could we do another shade structure and we went back and thought about it and thought that maybe we just take the shade structure
014and kind of have it straddle the fence line between the two the large and the small dog park and have it kind of half and half so that's that's our proposal for that there's no um with the reduction in the parking um it's actually a a reduction in the amount of impervious area on the site so I don't have any concerns with storm water management the storm water design is remains exactly the same um and here's our revised uh planting plan there's that uh internal planting in the in the sediment 4 Bay and the additional uh shade trees and then the plantings uh outside of the fence line at the north side of the park um here's out other play element I was talking about this is just sort of simple idea from the people
015at Stanton that you know you take like a drainage pipe and this is concrete we would probably use a a highdensity polyethylene it's very inexpensive kind of thing that the dogs can run through and play in and um so we've added that to the plan as well and that is a quick review of the changes that we've made thank you Michael is there anyone else that wanted to uh from from the um dog park applicant that wanted to comment about things so far don't know who's uh who's on I see Al Landa's waiting I am going to [Applause] right so any comments from the planning board comments questions um I do I sent Peter before the Mee meeting about um I'm sure that'll come up about um the area of disturbance I think it might
016need a special permit but I'm also looking at the um bylaw 5.4.4 interior landscaping and parking areas parking areas containing eight or more spaces shall contain or be bor by at least one tree per eight spaces so I don't know if that qualifies um what's there so I guess we should talk that through um what is what does it say again I've many times um 5.4.4 parking areas containing eight or more spaces shall shall contain or be bordered by at least one tree per eight spaces um such trees in any case shall not be further than 5T from the parking cell um they're they're implying like landscape Islands I mean I know there's some trees around there but we should make sure that that either complies or that we want more trees to comply he
017just cuz I sorry to interrupt how many you said eight a tree per eight spaces did I get that right yes I'm just not looking at the bylaw so I just want to make sure okay thank you yeah and so the trees that um are there will comply with three trees along assuming that they're with in 5T of the parking space or that that would um that would be part of that those trees cuz they' you know yeah I guess we should make sure that in that scale that it is then I guess um I thought you know there's also like kind of heavy screening requirements so are we double counting them and maybe yes maybe no but we should talk that through because there's screening requirements for with vegetative buffers as well in our
018bylaws right I'm asking what um I I need more information because I don't have it in front of me you know I'm bu we're where um the vegetated buffer for the parking um I think it's all well so we should be all going through the bylaws and I i' been busy like everyone else so I basically scrambled and did this an hour before coming here but um so I found the land clearing the Landscaping I don't think I marked the vegetative buffers because I thought we all knew that the other one landscape should be preserved in its natural state and so far as practical by minimizing tree and soil removal so we should talk about that um I can I think it was mentioned on the design Review Committee memo the the specific portion it
019is or it's not I think it is uh the screening I think they all the the landscape U natural features to be retained yep um yes please [Music] yeah um I have to do a search KY I think the buffer that you're talking about I think it's 5.4.2 is that is that the one you're the the general one um probably yes under just general landscape requirements correct all sides in rear and setbacks no more than minor removal existing trees and vegetation observed in all district screening and per Landscaping all parking areas should be screen in the front lot with landscape buffers which 6 fet in depth create strong impression of Separation the street and developed areas there's a lot yeah I mean we don't have we don't have dimensions on there I assume um Michael
020I assume you can give us a dimension maybe of the between the street and the parking um it has to be at least 10 ft I I assume if that prac uh yes thank you the the dimension from the RightWay line to the edge of pavement is 10 ft so the trees are in the middle of that so they are within 5T of the pavement um I will say that when we shortened the parking lot on this West Side I probably should move these trees over to the right a little bit so that the last one is a little bit closer but we didn't we didn't catch that so we can make that change I I was going to mention that they seem to be off to a different alignment and I think once they
021are now they weren't before I think I think once you do that you you will have better screening too to comply with the other aspect of of yeah that's the old plan and and then this is the new plan so we need to shift some of this Landscaping to make it a little more effective to screen the parking lot correct okay does that address your point I mean I think now that we have the scale at least it seems to be probably the minimal compliance now I don't know I believe we've talked about trees trees trees on the right hand side where the sidewalk would be nice to have some trees and then sort of add to that natural like the the RTD as much as it had lots of possibilities also very much talks
022about respecting the natural environment and fitting in do you do you mean on the right next to where the new crosswalk is yeah yeah so is it possible Michael to save or save or plant trees um along the sidewalk um where the crosswalk is in that area where it kind of says limit of clearing and it looks like a lot of um is it possible to save save or plant trees in that area I I know we have to have visual a visual clearance um yeah I think I think we can actually we can take a look at this tree line and maybe do a little bit better to bring it out a little bit I think a previous I had a previous plan that had a little more grading going on in this Zone
023and I and that's kind of gone away so I think we can um yeah I think we can protect a little bit more along here sure and I I would say that if you have um if you encounter some large Boulders which is likely right I I think part of the the landscape of the axis way and the screening could be part of the boulders to make it look more natural not just bar and and I think W with that and some additional plantings that that would be a much more appealing screening okay yeah we can we can certainly you know when this gets trimmed back when this gets cleared um you know I would want to look at what the edge condition along here and see what it looks like and just sort of
024strategically plant um some natives along there to to uh polish off that edge if you will okay so we'll be adding um Shifting the plant Shifting the trees down in the parking area adding or retaining more um vegetation and maybe some Boulders as they appear um in that area um there's adding three new would be three new trees right Michael to the L large dark Dog Park area which are in the plan today the large dog park area would be adding three new trees because of the grading right not existing trees right right yes okay cor so three three new trees um and obviously there's the other changes in the vegetation that you that you went um uh through with conservation the conservation commissioner correct any other questions on vegetation specifically I guess it kind
025of overlaps with design review but I'd like to see about going to keeping the um 4in caliber over trees they they made that recommendation yeah and and right now the plan still say six yeah y we have no objection okay well the consultant has no objection you're talking about in the the back part right in the in the L where we're keeping trees and we're just doing we're changing the six to four exactly so yep I think that's fine I I have I have a question on on on the materials I think the the sign Review Committee I I if I'm not wrong they suggested not to use rice uh Stone and just use uh gravel instead I know the recommendation was that Rice Stone I guess was gentler for the dogs what was is
026was there a Solution on that they they they seem to suggest that that gravel would be easier to maintain did that conversation lead to something different no yeah no Michael I think that happened after you left um uh this is Jen um no that we didn't come to a resolution um I sort of explained that um based on the the um require or the recommendations made from Stanton Grant was the reason why we picked uh that we were using that um design review sort of went back back and sort of thought that it was too light and that it would be it would be easily moved um and so you know we said we understood that but we were taking the recommendation sort of Industry standard for dog parks um and and we thought that
027that was still a pretty reasonable um solution and so we didn't really come to a solution there okay but I agree I think if that's the standard I don't have any objection to to that personally yeah I that I it's it's a very specialty item and I would rather go with what the recommendation is yeah it's been proven yeah yeah yeah I do have a question on the signage but I don't know if Trisha I think you you wanted to go on in order um I'm sorry what did you have a question on on on the signage oh oh but but we're still on landscape I think yeah still on landscape um there were a couple other issues or just questions that may have been resolved um in areas where existing trees are maintained they
028were the design riew committee was recommending no more than two or three inches of wood chips is that the appropriate amount um in your view Michael yes and that's if our drawings don't already show that they they will okay yeah I know I was looking at some of those details um I had actually um Kathy also provided us with another document of um uh tree planting methods um I was comparing looking and comparing them to her details compared to the details that were already in the drawings um Michael I think um I had asked Peter to send those to you they were a little hard to read once printed out um but I think most of the it seemed mostly the same to me I think the one question maybe that jumped out to me
029a little bit was um on on these details they show where you're peeling back about a third of the burlap and um but um Kathy had recommended and and completely removing any synthetic materials Kathy had recommended I think removing the burlap in any case do you have a we we remove all yeah our specs call for removing all of the burlap and all of the cages on the root balls okay I think if if that if it says one3 then that's an older detail and we'll have that replaced okay so it may just need to be uh just to be updated be consistent yeah okay great um okay I think that was the so do you have uh what your question no o overall I think all the changes are are really good I'm glad
030that we got them in and I I I think I'm pleased to to see that on on the detail for the signage of the dog park detail guess detail number three on LC 6.2 the U the geometry and I guess the font of the of the signage is that consistent with the general public signage that we had around the town I know that the was a like the historical commission did all these signage for specific buildings and that they have you know the typical historical brown color I know this is not historical but it would be good if the geometry or there's some it's a public Space by the town I want to make sure that it's consistent we don't have weird signage differences everywhere I agree with you I think um I think obviously
031the last the last signage that I can speak of that we installed was for the charie BR Trail um and and I off the top of my head I do not recall the square footage um yeah but not only the size we did yeah we Pete we did that on a kiosk for that one um I think I think the size of this is similar to so if you went to milpond park um and to the and the Riverwalk is smaller but to milpond park you know the one that has the seal on the top and it does it is a similar size I don't I mean the similar shape I can't speak to the size right off the top of my head but similar shape to what is was done sort of downtown the
032blue flat um signs um there's one at milon Park and and there's a smaller version I believe at Marathon Park and so maybe that's the size we should be replicating maybe yeah that's fine I I I'm I'm not going to any specifics I just suggest that we have consistency in colors size yeah construction it's a good point actually because there's actually a yeah because one of the signs that I'm talking about is actually at the bottom botom of mar um of Memorial Drive yeah so it would be right at the end there too so that makes some sense yeah the the all public spaces would have signage that is recognizable consistent homogeneous a good point right so if I could if I could jump in please This was um this was the Framingham sign and
033we just pasted Ashland over the top so it's not it wasn't meant to be a final design I I what I would suggest is that we put a note on this on the final plan that says final size size text and Graphics to be um determined with the town of Ashland and whoever is in charge of that so okay then that was not crazy yeah and then and then you know we can um you know has this this is this kind of sign that comes together like right at the end when everybody finally decides what all the rules of the park are so um that that's what I would suggest is this is just kind of a placeholder um but if you can approve sort of the overall size and it probably will get smaller
034um you know I think that's that's fine yeah I think that makes sense we've we've done that before that signage needs that in fact we're doing one today or papers today that um signage should should come back like you said once we once there's full understanding of what is actually on the sign and th how big it needs to be um makes sense yeah I mean that this was the Framingham standard with this they're kind of like plastic post it's that's that's their consistent Parks sign all throughout the city so you I'm sure that you want something different so we'll we'll work with you to get to that um solution okay um so is there any other can we just um go through the design review report because like I feel like um they did
035a great job to turn it around and we should just I think we hit most but not everything going through it as I went but but if there things I missed or um that weren't brought up already they should be brought up it's yeah C C11 there's some comments um design review request list of early mid late flowering plants Sprite interest mix of Evergreens with deciduous rather than lumping together um they're adding asking for adding more trees just like we are so that's C11 um it looks like outside of the gravel the issue I think we we are recommending the same things that um except we I didn't get to look I think there is a planting list but if they were provided this on the third then maybe they thought it needed to be
036improved is my take on there's PL listed on the um on L 5.1 yeah so if the design review got that on 123 and they spit this comment back to us they're implying they would like some more variety on C11 on page 305 was that something that was discussed with the design Review Committee yes can I respond please yes please yeah so I we I only got this a few hours ago from Peter thank you Peter um so I haven't had time to fully digest it but my my my notes from the conversation on Tuesday mostly talked about um rearranging some of the plantings out front and kind of mixing the Pines in with the all horn beams and and and maybe adding some other um plantings along the front to make it seem a
037little more natural it's this kind like this section of planting here and this section of planting here and it should look a little more consistent and I have no you know these are all good suggestions so a lot of the things that they're talking about are just like massaging the planting plan a little bit so I'm happy to go back and dig deeper into their comments and provide a new planting plan that addresses that we'll show the the new tree line here we can add some additional planting along that edge and address their comments in the actual plants Arrangements um there was another comment about the seating mix inside the Basin I'm certainly happy to take a look at that as well just um one of the things we talked about the seating mix is
038that you know we're also going on conservation again on Monday and I you know I did want to make sure that that doesn't impact CU anything for um from their perspective if we if we did a FL like a different flowering mix or something like that um so that was one of the things that yeah we sort of discussed yeah I mean this this the mix that we're showing on the plan was approved by right reviewed reviewed by yeah Becca and the commission and they and Becca actually was had um you know her gave her Ascent to the the seed mix that we have here the commission I don't recall commented on it at all um but it is mostly a grasses and sges in here it's a very Hardy mix that's going to really
039you know it's almost bulletproof kind of thing and there was a comment the other night about how we should have more flowering um wild flowers in there and it could be more of a um um um sorry the bees the pollinator pollinator thank you um you know more of a pollinate attraction attracting bees and have pollinators and and so forth so I I would want to run that by Becca and and the commission on Monday night when we go see them so the and though wood chips I think might be one of the other Ops but can we have since the applicant or who's kind of doing the work for applicant just got this can we have like we often do to a spit back a response I mean it sounds like most of them
040are positive and agreeing but I we've been working hard to work with the design review to be professional and close the loop and I feel like my I was going to scribble these notes back and I'm like that's not proper especially since we're hearing different things so can we ask that for the applicant to respond to these to close the loop on the yeah so so basically um basically it would be just giving the um doc file um to the applicant and letting them um just respond to the different yeah I think I'm happy to work with Mike Michael and I have worked together on this uh including with Jen so um we can go through it and kind of go through there okay it sounds like most things have are already are already there
041this has been Happ obviously happening very fast the design review commit committee met two days ago they just got the report they just got some feedback so we're trying to given the the holiday time of year and everything trying to make this happen really fast yeah so and and given that the uh the money for the grant um is done at the end of the year which I I think everyone agrees we don't want to miss that opportunity so um yeah if so if if it can just be quickly and simply do documented that um um the various bullet points um that should be easy to to do um and then on page 505 open space 1.2 planning board memorandum item review parking lot surface materials proposes as fall applicant is noted preferred by concom
042so I got their minutes from the meeting they in front of them and I did not find that in the minute so I don't know if that's just um misinterpretation by design review or that was said but we should we should make sure that that's actually true yeah so um that might have been for me so I I'm not sure if I said concom or if I said um conservation agent but I meant um our conversations with Becca so when we got feedback um from the Stanton Grant and then your initial review um we met with Pete and Becca just to sort of talk through and we sort of talked through the idea like could we do some gravel should we maybe do half gravel so that was all on the table and what Becca
043said is that conservation um in the past has Preferred um asphalt or pavement um because it doesn't move with weather and so if I said concom so can we this that's a big deal then can we since they're going back Monday can we ask if that's actually true in the preference because like I'm I know there's a brand new parking lot right up at like across from Warren Woods that's not asphalt right so like that's not what I know of our town and I just want to make sure that's really true that the conc would prefer asphalt Peter can you check back with Becca I can email I can speak with Becca tomorrow and I can get it in writing uh I'll I'll write to Becca with an email um and obviously I'll provide that
044to you cuz well and I would also say Kate like we went to the Conservation Commission already and they had no comments about the pavement yeah we we talked a little bit about the difficulty of M maintaining other other types of lots and um about accessibility and and that kind of thing as well so um but if it's okay with um Becca and concom you know then this statement might need to be corrected about who said what I mean I think that's important for one but since they happen to be going back I don't see why we wouldn't close the loop officially with in front of the concom when the dog park goes Monday but but I would say that at least from my point of view the reduction on on the material is positive
045and uh and I understand the maintenance issue um I I think it's a is a benefit to the design of the of the project more planting was added and infiltration um I think from the from my point of view in the planning board I think I would be fine with it if unless there's any technical objection yeah no I agree I mean I'm I'm not thrilled with a gravel parking lot um I think for for a number of reasons um and as far as infiltration goes you know all of the things about having permeable pav man is to keep infiltration on the site which this already does right it's not on the spot the exact spot where the rain fell but the the infiltration is kept on the site which is the primary which is
046the primary goal right if there was a building it wouldn't be going to that spot either but it would be infiltrated on the site versus sending it away to yeah and that's one issue but there's also like heat island and things like that so it's yeah but but but I mean I I don't I personally don't think in terms of heat island this is um the the percentage of this relative to the side it's is that meaningful and my experience with gravel parking areas is that they work well when the area is more extensive uh there's less movement and and you know you have Parks who have a large area and that that works well this is such a small area that that that the gravel can end up going everywhere and and that could
047become an nuisance and maintenance issue so that that's why I think I I I personally wouldn't see that as as something to to put a red flag on yeah I I I agree I think it might be causing more problems than it's solving and that's that's my worry um as we as we look at maintenance issues and things like that and durability so but yes um so if we can get a you know um if concom has a strong uh a preference one way or another that they wish to that they didn't talk about before that um and that if the statement can be clarified then um that would be getting to the bottom of it I guess I'm happy to write an email tomorrow what's our time frame for do we have another meeting
048as a board to meet the deadline for the grant so we're we we're met we we're meeting tonight we had a planned meeting for the excuse my Lang excuse me for looking on my phone uh it was going to be the 19th um which will be would be two Thursdays I think we can if if we want to talk about it we can do a zoom meeting that night if we do not all want to come into town hall um and take a look at it um Kate mentioned in an email looking at um we did not advertise for the special permit for site plan alteration um and so I may have to advertise for site plan alteration which would then we would have to have another meeting um but I would have to look
049at the calendar and kind of work through that but I think we're looking at site plan approval now I think it was just kind of a something that came up K email me I'm going to look at the exemptions tomorrow and and see how it all fits in and then kind of move forward um so words we would have to have approved in the 19th for this project for for plan we're looking at s plan approv right now if things do change we'll have to make alterations I'm just trying to understand how much time we have to get the applicant I guess the response to the sign review the The Memo from concom do we have enough time I think it can happen okay yes I think the response to the design review is more
050documentation you know of of the process and not necessarily it's not something that needs to go back to design Review Committee I don't I think this is left design Review Committee correct right for us right response right so it's response Then I then and um so we need um an approval for we need a decision on this before the end of the month and we potentially also need to um repost for the special permit part which is just has to do with side alteration that more than 5,000 square fet is being altered that would be a special permit so um what I would assume is that if we and that with the advertising may not be able to happen until at the very last days of the month so if we need if we need
051to do that I would say that we would meet online to do the site plan approval um 19th on the 19th hopefully just that if we're lucky okay um and then at the same time if if that if the site plan approval if the site plan gets approved we take an informal vote on the um on the special permit we can't vote on it without it being published and having an open public hearing but then we open a public hearing for the 30th or whatever we can get it in whenever we have would have this back and the concom for the 19th for we everything we need for the 19th everything we be back and would be on our it would be in our on our it would be in our court per so is
052there any action required tonight I mean I think there is to work on a draft decision so right yeah I I mean that would make sense to me I personally think we're at a spot where I can move forward with a drafting a draft decision I think I think the board can kind of um with confidence I think I can take away from this meeting that um the comments tonight have given me the green light to move forward and to do that take that next step yeah I think the comments are more accidental not substantial so yeah I agree I I there's no issues with the use the concerns I think everything is working I can you know everything is fluid right now with Michael and myself using the design review committee's notes and kind
053of to make the next step to to make this happen the one part that we have you mind if I yes please sorry sorry so we don't actually I mean if it's obviously we're trying to squeeze this in really tight around the holiday uh season and I feel like you know getting people together might be tough so in terms of the Grant I think if we're all in a good place with the plan come the 19th um and we're and we still need to work on the actual decision we don't need the decision to be able to apply for the grant but what we need by the end of the year is to know that we're on a solid ground with the final plan cuz that needs to be submitted in reviewed for the Stanton
054Grant so um so we're able to go to bid by by Springtime and so you know they gave us the end of the year as a deadline but I don't need all the I don't need the permits in my hand to be able to do that I don't think right Michael I'm looking at you now because you've done standing grants but I don't believe they're going to require me to have the permits but we're going to have to have solid completed plans um that they're going to review and then we have you know budget estimates and then we we sort of form apply for that Grant um but we don't have to necessarily so you might have some flexibility in actually doing the decision and getting together and voting and signing all of that I
055I don't think that's as important as sort of coming to an agreement on what we that that we're meeting all the um requirements and that we can agree on the plan yeah if you can um I mean I would love to get this you not have it hanging out there kind of in the in the new year but if you um if you can kind of confirm that we don't want to we don't want to lose the opportunity because of yeah I will questions that would be an incredible unfortunate you know unfortunate circumstance that we lose a grant money because of these little tweaks for sure yeah I can definitely um I can definitely reach out okay in the morning for that just to see as long as we have solid plans you know are
056we good to sort of move ahead and meet all there the side plan 19th yeah pleas that should be a piece of paperwork that they can submit and sorry Anna had something to say oh Michael did you have yeah just just general comment on the ston foundation um and I don't want to speak from them but in my experience they're remarkably flexible okay and um and friendly I mean they want to give you the money you know it's not like they're trying to withhold it um so and they're um interestingly um fairly informal too it's a very small organization so um but yeah Jen we know you call them tomorrow I'm sure you can get them on the phone and yeah for sure I think yeah we're in a unique situation because previously we would
057have just said oh we can just you know we could kick we could sort of kick it out a month but they are these are the last in final dog park grants and so that's why the deadline is um so much harder than than they have been in the past because they have been incredibly flexible with us so I so I do think they'll work with us um and so certainly if it's just us getting you know having the time to get everyone together get a quorum during a very busy season I think we we have some time so I but I will definitely confirm it and let everybody know yeah yeah I think that that would be that'd be very important to know so because if we can do the special permit after you
058know after the after the new year and our first meeting yeah that that would be great but we can on the 19th I think have the feedback from the design Review Committee um from the applicant responding to those points that things were taking care or a different decision was made we can get the feedback from concom on the asphalt versus gravel um we can have the draft decision for the 19th and the revised plan with the comment that we give today right right and the and the revised plan okay so that so that that can hopefully be wrapped up at that time okay I think I'm happy to work with with Michael and I think Michael and I can can can do that um and if you can get me a draft decision I'll go
059through it and then we'll get it out to the board and and just to go back to one point and and it's a point that Michael and I had a conversation about but is the board in favor of flipping the sh the the the shade structure and having the fence run in between it so that you have shade in both large and small dog park to me it's a kind of a nice a good solution because then the small dog people can talk to the large dog people under sounds like people might be yes you know I I think that makes sense I mean I think the I drove up there it's a natural area so the less intrusive we can be and one structure shared is is less intrusive than two new structures what
060you need is a gate in between right just to be able to pass through from one side other that's a good idea and there are Gates you there are Gates but that was just one thing that Michael and I discussed yesterday and I just wanted to make sure that we were clear that that was a change that was acceptable to the planning board um so okay I know on my end I think I can I'm happy to move forward with all the items mentioned design review concom wrting a decision and obviously working with Michael and I think that can all be taken care of uh By the 19th okay so um I guess we will look to continue this continue this can I just um actually just can we have just an informal is is
061there any is there anything else from at least these form members that's hanging out there that would prevent us from approving this project if these things are addressed and the changes made I mean my my view on this is when I saw concom was on board with the as asphalt and I saw that it was a smaller parking situation it fit well with where I'm at um obviously confirming that would be great um but I'm informally on board I do think it'll be helpful when um the applicant goes through the design review document there are a couple of sort of ideas if you will from design review like O Town should bid on this town should do that we haven't really talked about those things that was maybe helpful to get the feedback to those
062things as well because I I don't think we need to tonight to discuss if that's somehow things that should go into the into the decision but I would like to talk through that once we have a response yeah I just want be careful about including anything that's out of the out of the purview of the planning Bridge request it wasn't clear what the town was okay with or not okay with I think it'd be good for us to know hey Town says this is not viable town is willing to do it so that our decision can reflect whatever the applicant which is the town is willing to do okay I'm on board too I don't I don't have any issue what we talked tonight I think satisfies what I would expect yeah and also just
063to make it clear I'm flexible on the location of that Pavilion I'm fine with it either way you know so okay great then um I'll make a motion continue the um ashin Dog Park public hearing to December 19th and a roll call Vote or we need a second for I'll second and a roll call vote noit Katherine Jersey guy and Trisha kendle ey so we'll plan on the 19th if we can have put for us yes and I think I assume the plan the board would like to make that a virtual meeting or inperson meeting I think we should make it a virtual meeting okay okay Anna my preference is virtual only because I have a a work-related event that day in Boston so it be hard for me to get here okay okay thank
064you it will be a virtual meeting and uh we'll move forward all right thank you thank you thank you Michael thank you Jen all right next on our agenda is a public hearing for 400 uh Cedar Street the AT&T cell tower Peter yes so um tonight we have a uh application for a cell tower this is a application to amend a existing special permit which um is for excuse me new Singler um Wireless which is AT&T currently AT&T is one of the four um carriers or cell carriers that have space up on the Water Tower located at 400 Cedar Street this is a town-owned property um on the cell tower uh just to make note um just to make you know reference and to add color to location uh previe this pre previously this year
065there was a case in front of the board board that moved I believe Verizon who was actually up on top to the side where there was an opening so AT&T is one of the companies actually had um antennas existing on the side of the tank here a& T&T represented by Mr Timothy Green who's here in the back is looking to um update their equipment um and with that update is they're looking to pull their old antennas down add new antennas um like all the cases we have seen these are 5G capable antennas um and we are going through the public process to um he AT&T's application to modify this uh I do want to make a note that AT&T from a structural stpoint um these this application has been reviewed uh by Mr Greg Aldridge
066of of the the the excuse me um peer review um I forgive me I did not I did not add Greg's peer review letter uh approving the work but Greg has reviewed this work um and he has um kind of put his stamp on his stamp of approval on the structural Integrity of of what they're proposing to do so with that said um if there's any questions if there's no questions from the planning board I'd like to introduce Mr Timothy Green to the microphone uh Mr Green can you please step forward introduce yourself to the planning board and please um State you know what what the project uh entails got it thank you um as stated my name is Timothy Green here on behalf of uh new Singular Wireless PCS DBA AT&T AT&T has had
067a installation up on this water tank for uh as of February 25 years uh it was last upgraded by myself in 2019 in front of the zoning board because we're adding going from nine antennas to 12 antennas there are currently 12 antennas up there now 12 will be replaced we've spent a signifant time with um the town as well as Greg Eldridge from Alien Ward to design well redesign the antennas in a way that it'll be one and two smaller ones then one all of the other radio equipment will be below it to kind of make it a little better looking so to speak as well as uh revise the cable trays and like uh we've done testing on the tank it took a while um stud Wells things like that to the satisfaction of
068the engineers uh that everything would hold and any new um welds to the tank would be done in a manner that wouldn't uh jeopardize the water supply or the tank itself uh again this is normal we've been I think 2019 now 2024 um you know just part of normal Network upgrades um the antennas come down new antennas go up the antennas carry different frequencies uh that are purchased uh to the FCC and as uh time has gone on and everybody's had a phone uh capacity you have capacity reints as well as people use their phones for a lot of different things now than just uh talking so that's um this isn't um this isn't a specific to land this happens all across the country and so this is just part of those Network upgrades thank
069you Mr Green and I have to apologize um to the planning board I forgot to read the public notice into the record so I just want to uh take a second please bear with me and I'm just going to read this into the public record um the Ashton plany board will hold the public hearing to hear the petition of 18t 550 kachu Road I'm sorry kuit Co kachu Road Ro uh please forgive me Framingham Massachusetts 01702 requesting special permit modification per chapter 282 section 6.4 Wireless communication facilities and 9.3 the ash bylaws the application seeks to modify the existing special permit for the removal and replacement of 12 antennas four per sector four per side the new network service upgrade with Associated antennas electric equipment fiber and coax conduit and install uh and install additional
070uh equipment inside the existing fenon area at the base of the existing structure The Proposal includes the installation of 5G capable equipment the property in question is located at 400 Cedar Street assesses map 29 lot 132 in the residential a zoning District parties wish to be heard on this matter should submit comments to the Ashen planning board ahead of time and or appear at the time and place indicated above materials may be viewed um by appointment at Town Hall and during normal business hours this application has been posted on the town of ashen's website um and so this public hearing notice was published in the Metro daily news on Wednesday November 20th and Wednesday November 20th and it was a mailed to abuts in both Ashland and Holliston uh with that said I apologize thank
071you very much for letting me do that so plenty board members um do you have any questions Indo on this application one do the equipment replacement extends to to those uh boxes that you usually have on the bottom of the tank or just the antennas on the tank uh we'll be doing some work in at the base of the tower but we have an equipment room we have a building so everything is inside no we know what we're doing there mind this thing um usually usually I'm sorry I'm sorry I apologize again my mind is racing they right here okay thank you right yeah I've got I'm sorry I was focused on reading the public hearing notice do you mind if um I think if you went to pleas page A2 gives you a good
072idea of what the the what it would look like um when it's completed you've got uh right now there's four antennas across in a row there'll be now one antenna and there's two smaller antennas those are 30 in in height and those a stack back to back uh are up and down and there's another antenna to it and then all of the radio units right now they're kind of kind of plac wherever to be honest and so we've work with the town uh we're going to make the mounts a little bit longer and have the uh radio units that are that work with these antennas be back to back below the antennas is there any uh questions from the board um I would definitely like to see the independent report not that I'm going to
073override the engineer but that's we we know on I think this tank had some structural concerns before so I think we have to we definitely want to see that yeah and I have that report and I'm sorry I just we did we we forgot to add that but uh it was in the packet that was sent out to everybody I believe I don't remember seeing it but I've been busy so um and then I think just um good practice it sounds like there was like a technical meeting and we should get a memo from that technical review with the whoever um if there's any Town concerns that's what we usually do usually the technical meetings I think are on bigger projects that concerned more departments we've never had a technical review on a on this
074project oh well you guys were talking about meeting with the town so I thought that's what I think what what we had met with the town we have we've probably been working on this probably about a year and a half with Halen Ward um over designs as as well as most importantly the well testing uh the well testing took a while there's some other work up there um you we had to get somebody up there to do the actual well testing get that back have people analyze it so um those concerns have been um I G to say met but we have uh been introduced in with the town as well as the town's engineering firm and after going through all of that they have uh signed off on it and I think this application
075is less extensive than the one that we looked at before because there's no relocation of the top of the tank to the side and I think there were some correct structal concerns structural standpoint what Verizon did was they were on there was was there there was the town of ashon had five carriers on that tank four on the sides one on the top the concern from a structural standpoint was that the I believe it was Verizon who was stationed up on the top of that tank now two of the side companies right they merged and so then there was there was antennas removed right one lease was terminated so then that we went from have then we went to having three companies on the side one spot open and one on the top so when
076eight when Verizon's um lease ran out it ran we they we ran it out and then they moved to the side of the tank we reposted the r P for the side of the tank so from a structural standpoint that was put in when Mr Green says they met with the town Kate they actually met with uh Halen Ward Greg Eldridge he's a he's a engineer and he does all the the engineer for really the water department but over the years the planning board is always we've always used Greg as a town to review meate to review the cell these these towers right these these water towers and from a structural standpoint and how they interact act with these steal carriers attaching the equipment to the town so usually with these cases there's never a
077tech review meeting per se with all departments it really just kind of goes through Greg eldrid third party engineering review um but we do have that letter I'm happy to share that with you um again okay so uh um if there's no other comments at this time I'll open it up to public comment yeah and this is the time to speak Tim cool all right well thank you guys for having me I'm a resident of Holliston but pretty darn close to ashon I'm one house over across from the the Cedar Street Tower here so I think we just need to have you state your name at Timothy Susa 200 Cedar Street in Holliston um uh probably 50 yards at most from uh from the tower so I come here as a concerned father there more
078so than an engineering or structural expert uh by any means what I thought was going to be an opening statement around health of upgrading to a 5G network was downplayed of we're just doing general maintenance upgrading panels the reality is they're installing 5G panels first 4G panels that are on the tower now I have two children age uh ages three and one uh when I kind of started Googling around what these upgrades look like I was Gravely concerned uh cell towers companies whether it be Verizon T-Mobile you name it they're essentially relying on a 1996 law that allows them to go up on towers and replace whatever they want and yes that law is valid as of today but the environment is very much changing uh that law was backed by lobbyists the the big
079Telco companies at the end of the day the issue is in 1996 cell phones barely existed there's no regulation of how these impact human health uh and in fact until the 2020s that didn't even exist when a gentleman named Robert Kennedy uh who will be in the OS in some capacity uh sued the FCC and he was successful uh so the the FCC just lost a a marquee lawsuit and I am not a lawyer but I will read the judge's ruling the FCC determined that the judge determined FCC failed to evaluate record evidence that exposure to RF radiation at levels below the commission's current limits may cause negative health effects unrelated to cancer the FCC ignored numerous organizations scientists medical doctors who called for them to update limits on the court and found the FCC
080failed to address these issues they also failed to evaluate period impact of long-term Wireless exposure impact to Children the testimony itself of people who are injured by cell phone towers the impact to Wildlife and environment which frankly I don't really care about uh and the impact to developing brain and reproduction of humans needless to say new regulations are on the way they just lost that lawsuit so where does that leave us we're we're kind of in a a pickle and and Tim I don't know you you're you're a good guy obviously here he wants to to fix this he has the laws to do it behind him but what we have today is a broken system a lost lawsuit by the FCC things will be changing rapidly over the next four years so what I
081ask of the board and and I hope this is a pretty easy decision for all of you um vote if you vote Yes on this you are saying we're going to ignore the evidence that exposure to RF radiation at levels below the current commission's limits may cause negative Health consequences you're going to ignore scientists and medical doctors who called on them to set stricter limit and again these are judge words as federal judges not my words themselves you're going to ignore studies of long-term RF exposure ignore any impacted children let me say that again ignore any impacted children you're going to ignore testimony of people injured by RF but if you vote no you're going to say you believe in a law regulating cell phone towers pre- cell phones existing doesn't make sense which it
082doesn't then we should look at actual health studies in determining guidance and that you think the development of children should be part of the review I also ask you to look at the existing cell phone providers up there um and look what other Counties have done and other countries have done I personally was super interested in this I said okay where do all the tech companies live and what are their zoning issues for 5G Towers P Alto the biggest Tech Hub in America 1,500 ft we're at 30 that's all I got to say is there any other comments from uh from online nope there's no other comments online all right I'll open it up to the board ladies first I mean I'll I'll say I very much appreciate the public comment and the organized nature
083of it um we've had similar public comments on this topic as you might know um and I speaking for myself I I'm very aware of the controversies and debates on this um and I can also appreciate that other local districts such as Paulo Alto um might have a different take um of the federal laws and the limitations we have so I I I'll repeat what I've stated in similar situations which is that um my understanding of federal law is that this board can only vote no on this project um for very specific reasons and health health as you've described it or science as you've Des as you've presented it is not one of those so if we vote no we would risk uh being appealed and losing which would be at Great cost to the
084town of Ashland um and so there are legal reasons why it's very very difficult for local boards such as this to do what you're proposing however I will say the exact same thing I told the last public comment on this exact same issue which is that Nothing Stops you or any public person from walking over to the Tower and measuring radiation and Nothing Stops you for from discussing with um state federal agencies your concerns and nothing stops you from in the future lobbying those who can change federal law and it sounds like you're very aware of who will be in charge in the next four years and who might hear your concerns but we're stuck with the law as it currently exists yeah I would only second um what Anna said and and I think
085uh I I have children too we all many here in this table do and we appreciate your concern and and share a lot of it um I think it's unfair for you to say that by Ved in a certain way we would be ignoring the health of children I I I I don't appreciate that type of statement because we are not we have to we have requirements uh from federal law that we have to follow follow otherwise we would be sued so it is not up to us to to uphold that it's the federal law that forces us to vote in certain way unless there's some specific reasons um so by no means we are ignoring all the things that you say we are uh we're following the law um regly but um but it's
086it's it's obligation we have cases many cases like this and we've had many people like yourself that have come with the same arguments um and we've had livly discussions about that but we've had also legal opinions on the matter and and the town cannot afford just simply to be suit for in in in a frivolous way just because we we want to make a statement that would not be responsible it's not it's not our perview I think that's also important to knowe and I'm am no expert on this topic either but um but it's also been discussed I believe in the ashin Board of Health which is maybe the more appropriate location to be looking at the health issues of things like that and um and I know the information out there is very especially
087when you're Googling around very controversial you know it's not that it's not a it's not a cut and it's not a cut and dry case I I believe the World Health Organization just recently um ruled on something something about this I don't have that documentation with me um but I can try to find it for the board um so it it's it's been um I it it seems to me with the information out there that it's not um conclusive I guess I I certainly understand your concerns I know you found some sources that that that have um obviously impassioned you um but there seems to be um it doesn't seem to be conclusive from from my my reading of it or speaking with people who know a lot more about it than I do so
088and as been said before it's like it it it seems sometimes that planning boards have the have this ultimate power that we can do whatever we want but but we can't we're Bound by the law so um so our our hands are a bit tied in this um we also know that um throughout Ashlin there's that four 5G already in operation and has been for a while no I would say good yes we've been on multiple Towers on the three towers that I know the three towers that we have reviewed yes so um so that puts us in a like I said a position where it we're being at you know where our hands are tied yeah so just to make a note the law that we do have to re rely on and reflect
089upon is called the middle the federal middle class tax relief and job creation Act of 2012 that was the law that was put in place that says that we as the as as a planning board um and as a town we cannot refute the changing of antennas um and that was that's the the memo that we have um we've leaned upon which was provided by Town Council and that goes back to 2020 so uh with that said um is there any more questions concerns don't know yeah sure well let me I mean so um real quick um do 5G up there right now we did it in 2019 so there's no like this 5G thing and it's kind of a marketing term 3G 2G 3G 3G was we got to do text 4G was oh
090we can watch video 5G is faster video there'll be a 6 G and the 7g someday so but the the 5G is already up there for AT&T we have also included in our um package a uh RF study and with us U tonight Martin Leen who's on the screen there um is the person that wrote it if there were any specific questions I don't know but it basically shows the limit the theorical um limits of the emissions on the tower so that was supplied we're aware of these situations we're aware of these concerns um so I just wanted to put that in the record and you know we can go from there I didn't see that talk that does Marvin want to speak on that report or he has no choice if he remembers he's
091here it's been a while he had to go through the dog park so hopefully he he picks up but in the meantime the um the um that report right there C squ system y from AT&T and I can I can read get to the the specifics uh Mar Marvin are you Avail Martin are you available have we lost them going once twice I I think that um report is on the town website with the application you you can hand them I don't I have that particular point in my thing but if you wanted to hand them one I'm fine why not no it's it's public document it's it's on the website Mr sush if you would like a copy right here I'm happy to give you mine and then I think along with that when
092we get this the engineers report we should make sure that's on the website with all the documents okay yeah so if you were to go through the report it gives you the whole you know list of you know where you are and distances but everything's well below the limit you're at you know 3% 4% of the limit um you know and the limit's the limit we don't do it the Mass Department of Public Health hasn't required us to file a report in 15 years because they were just so useless they said you just we told you to file this paperwork and now we're getting this paperwork and this paperwork is useless because no one's ever close to the limit so um we don't even file those anymore we actually had to ask for a waver
093from your uh bylaw because you request a letter which doesn't exist anymore um but that information was provided also um as a courtesy of what we're doing here I know I have to go and read it was it an independent agency who did the report was it Affiliated yeah no it's independent when not we we have nothing to hide AT&T is a trillion dollar company we're not trying to we're not there's nothing to hide here yeah okay all right so with with Martin not jumping on and I think some questions Talking L does a you want to continue this or do you want to yeah we have to continue this because we'll need a we'll need a the the draft decision yep and um to see the to see um the engineers report um and
094um and then we'll be looking at this again I would prefer I would prefer if we have how much time do we have on this so we have 60 days um this application was filed on no November 18th uh so therefore we have um we have that's that's 45 days until the new year uh 45 I mean 43 minus the 60 we have 17 days our next meeting is going to be our first meeting of 2025 is going to be January 9th that would be within the 60-day policy um so typically we could we could continue this to January 9th um and we would still be within our required time frame what does the board feel about that well I think if the do we we've done these many times for the affirmation requirements if
095the documents are ready I don't see any reason to delay the vote more than whenever they are ready so if it's January fine if it's in the 19th but we could do it so look at it for the 19th for our online meeting or virtual meeting just to approval not be more discussion there usually isn't on these so any other is there consensus on that get it done I think we need to get it done okay okay I'll I'll have a decision drafted up on the 19th all right is there and there's no more public comment I don't think people are hanging out okay um I make a motion to continue the public hearing 400 Cedar Street 18 to December 19th meeting I'll second that R call vote Anki I I Katherine Jers guy and
096Trisha K so we'll be continuing to the 19th perfect thank you you're welcome I if I could Trisha I do want to thank the member of the public for being so organized in his letter although I know some members of the board may have had different sentiment as a response but I I was certainly impressed with the level of research and organization and I think it's great to have that type of public comment I think we're always happy to have people to come obviously there's usually not many thanks for uh thanks for having me I know I'm in out of town NOP always welcome doors are open all right thank you thanks Tim uh the next item involves partly 501 Pond can we do this one at a time rather than combining them so I
097can St out for that one 100% okay I will start with do you feel the need to step out now or in a few minutes I think we I I mean as long as we talk about 100 Chestnut Street first and then I step out and then you guys can talk about the other one okay right yep okay uh so uh 100 Chestnut Street this is just a letter approving the signage um that was approved by the plany board at our last meeting um that was on nove that was in November before Thanksgiving I apologize the date of that meeting was November 14th I have that in front of me what did I do tab is it under oh it's right there okay I got it I'm it I know I was just I was
098just writing on it okay all right so this is just the uh the letter saying the signed we approve the signage MH um um I have a comment so I'm not sure this is necessary but bring it up that there was a um it was reviewed by The Building Commissioner and I feel like that might be a good thing to add to this because it in keeping with like the stuff we looked at that's what we usually do I know this isn't quite the same level of a whole decision but um this is something we could you have it all ready to sign or we could still sign it I do but we can still sign it and I can make it I can make a change I can make a I can make a
099change to that I I think it's a good idea not where would you put that can you be more specific um reviewed and approve the submitted material representing the proposed installation of signage for the resol so um I think you could rework the documents used or decision basis and then it would say approve sign renderings by you know all that would stay the rendering Corner rering location sight lighting plan and it would just be a like a bullet point or number items I have a e so it's an email I have an email it was in the packet I can just add email from Building Commissioner Doug Scott dated and that's is that what you're looking for yeah yeah I can add that that's that's yeah I think so that's easy okay right so um
100do we need a motion to sign or we just sign I don't think we do right because we we we made a motion we already did so we don't we already made a motion it's kind of just acceptance do we need to sign right now I have it right here but I we can do it right now or after the meeting how many copies are there uh three pass yeah I'll just pass it around okay and for the other item that you guys are doing I just need I just want to walk to my car and get a bottle of water do you think this is going to be a quick one long one I just don't want to I think in my eyes it's going to be very Qui it's going to be quick
101okay I I'll be a quick walk it's going to be a quick walk for a bottle of water okay I'll do that I'll start jacking sorry can borrow a pen because mine is pink yeah I got a blue pen you want me sign decision yes sorry treas of course now I have your pen do you need another pen I'm sure there's only three oh we can make them wait just joking you all right I'll be back in a few minutes okay just make sure you stay for the records why I left that I'm in the butter not that you need a drink the second letter um that we do have tonight for review is for 501 Pawn Street um 501 Pawn Street is a special perart extension for 2 years um as a note they
102know there was one left over item regarding the date of the fence installation after the meeting I did meet on site with um Mr Ben Stevens um and we did talk about installing a wooden seeda fence at the location of the existing construction fence that will be done by December 20th 2024 so it's coming up pretty quick they're able to do coming up pretty quick so a one day job it's a one day job uh when I was on site with him he had no issues with it he just said I got to make he you know he just he he um he just wanted to make sure he could secure the material obviously there's not too many places with fencing right now not too many people putting up right now so he just needed
103to secure 50 ft of wood stock a fence I believe he did that within an email from the attorney um Mark CAD black he just they shot back and said fence will be up by December 20th so I think that's I mean I think that's a really good time frame to get that back and obviously it's it's in it's there um so I have a comment on that um that I don't know how to word it but the fence was interim in Li of plantings correct and so I don't necessarily want to say temporary because the final thing might be fence and plantings right like they might they're going to pull no because what what was approved was the plantings replacement M it just cannot be done until they finish the sewer connection when they
104build the building so the fence is temporary it will be replaced by the plantings that were approved with the sure but it might end up being a fence and right then the fence yeah I don't think we can change we're not changing the plan we didn't vote to change our our design plans I know what I want to make clear though it because we're not closing the loop it's like oh now I'm giving you offense and then it's like so you think it doesn't matter it doesn't say temporary or you don't have to say anything about that well they still have to comply with the special they don't have a choice do you want them to like you want them to leave the fence the entire well it it might work out better for everyone
105right I mean they're going to pull it down to do if it works out better for everyone then they will make the case for it or the neighbors would yeah yeah so what I don't want to happen is the fence is in way of the trees now and you told me to put in the fence let's get that out of the way now right just say that you told me to what um if the fence is going where the trees will go so if I I don't want to have like something later saying wait but you told me to put a fence and now I got to pull down the fence to put up the trees and get that whole argument so I think the approval that we did last time around was very clear
106the fence was a temporary measure until the building can get built yeah and then the then the then the then the improved site plan will away okay that's fine because it doesn't say temporary here and that's the um that's all that's fine I don't want mean to add not not if he no one thinks it's needed that's why I just it was just a question the present Oh I thought you were I thought you were asking something more complicated I guess if if you want um shall install it's a the beginning parts of this little wonky anyway it should be the applicant shall install a six foot you have shell installation of a so it's has to be corrected anyway yeah so I would say the applicant shall install a temporary 6- foot wooden Stockade
107Fence see how that first line is messed up anyway yeah I see it an appan shall install a temporary 6ot wooden soate fence along the rear corner of the property in the location of the Pres the location of the present temporary construction fence this fence shall be installed as a buffer between 501 Pawn Street in the ledare county Condominiums Meeting House path that the roadway said fence shall be installed by December 20th 2024 I mean if you want you could put up that and remove when construction it's I think the word temporary says yeah it's temporary temporary and and I think they're I think they'll have other work on that corner that they need to do where they have to remove it that's what said they have to remove it to be able to install
108the they do they have to move remove it cuz the water and the they have to dig they got to dig it out yeah yeah they have to upgrade the water right there so it's a it is going to be temporary but since you have to like I said you have to correct that I can add that word I'm definitely not married to I just scribbled and brought up the concept then you can put in the word we can just put in the word temporary temp temporary fence it's a temporary construction fence and then that's good I think and Peter will be on the case to make sure they do it good job y just right over the water bottle wasn't there do you need a it's okay I had something from the water fountain
109I think there's a cup I can try to look for there's cups it's okay the door left on the kitchen table I'll take care of it you want no I'm good I have some thank you Marcelo yeah no's got the third coming your way okay all right we're good we're good all right then next next on our agenda is um our informal meeting meeting with the owner and agents of 123 Pawn Street to discuss um potent the potential planning board application Peter yes so about a month or two ago I was approached by Mr George Connors um who we all know I believe at this point um and Mr Mike McKay Mr Mike McKay is the architect for this project they are the agents working for a proper owner that has purchased the property uh
110on Jame it's kind of at the end of James Road um however it's also known as 123 Pawn Street uh I believe about maybe two months ago uh when I first received the plans from Mr Connors I did send them out to the planning board we've kind of talked in kind of informally um but I think about about a month or two ago about a month ago it was um decided upon the board if I could invite George and and Mr McKay and here Mike to come and have an informal meeting prior to the full application um and just kind of think about the project what it would entail um and just kind of have a conversation about it and so that's what we're here to do tonight just to have a conversation about it
111um I have not uh except today I did receive some new drawerings that uh Mr McKay will walk us through uh but other than that really haven't had I haven't had any new information to share with the board except this is kind of in you know informal we have not received an application at this point um so with that said I would like to introduce Mr George connes Mr Mike McCay um and they're going to walk us through um kind of a presentation uh in a slideshow of of what their ideas are for the development to this property which I believe um their client purchased less than a year ago at this point okay great start I just tell gas I've looked at it it doesn't affect either one of you e either excuse me
112NE either one of you are without correct you are not direct the budet to this property m I have some context um drawings I can show it's cross from Dairy Queen right behind the shell on the same side of the no no it's across the street by the by the station behind the gas station I just wanted to we could yeah if you just give me a second I uh Mike did send me some stuff today I'm just going to cruise to it and then we can um AR okay okay um that's it thank you everyone for uh letting us um do this it's a it's a good starting point um the first slide is really just the the project overview where it's a 14.8 Acre Site um good bit of it is um dry
113but a good good bit of it is wet so the the number breakdown today we really just we don't want to focus too much on the site we were hoping to just get feedback on the design style so I think but I thought just to get the the whole overview U or the the entire overview just go through slides it's a proposed 200 unit project um with 177,000 square feet of commercial um this is a more two context plans the um the blue the four blue boxes are the proposed buildings the lighter um it's the pickle ball court is the sort of the bigger building on the opposite side of the street and then the gas station we wrap around the gas station and there's also two single family homes um that are adjacent to
114the property um if we could go to the next uh the next one everyone I can control it or I guess you have to sorry Pete again more couple of context photos of of the site you can see the gas station it's a large vacant property with the exception of one uh one home um that would be removed um next and a couple of street views um Coming the top one going driving north North it's on the left side and then driving South it's on the right side it's behind the gas station but this is James Road uh that lower right hand image that's James Road um that is a dead end Street next please existing condition plan um pretty detailed survey by George's company um again we're not really here to focus too much
115on that today um so if we could just go to the next one The Proposal is uh as I mentioned is four buildings the um the front lower right hand building is um first floor commercial with um three stories of residential we call that building a and Building B is the the one on the just adjacent to it the the lowest one on the sheet on the the uh I guess the south side of the site um large landscaped Courtyard in the in the middle um that opens up to an amenity space that's yet to be designed but in Building B Building C is in the back and both Building B and C are all residential and there's a small commercial building that um our client was able to acquire um up in the back
116and we call that building D and the drawings that we sent out I will say we didn't focus a whole lot on building D and it was a terrible building and we deleted it so we'll show you something a little bit different today for building D I admit it was terrible um so I when we building D is top the top the top North the north side of the site right yeah that's it and then there's um two single family homes that are um that are part that are adjacent to the site um when I spoke with Peter he was nice enough to meet with us and give us some feedback on the design I've designed a lot of buildings a lot of buildings that are anywhere from two stories three stories four stories you
117know sometimes five stories and six and when you get into a four-story building or more I've always found it to be challenging to make it look residential we've done it successfully in three stories in fact Peter mentioned a project that we designed it was one in Westwood we were the Architects for it very successful Village concept but it was three stories and I've always found it to be challenging putting gables on a four-story um so what I wanted to get feedback on tonight was and I I respect you know we have a amazing group of Architects on a on a on a planning board which is great and and non-architects I'm sure can give us feedback but um if we can just go right into the the uh elevations or the renderings that we have
118the first two are street view oh this is a landscape plan we can probably skip that one these were two street views one um from the left side of the site looking in so that would be building a and then Building B is in the back this is a big site so you you know then the purpose of these two renderings was really to show that they're further back they are the taller buildings they're proposed at four and 1 half stories they're not five story buildings they're four and a half um but they're they're um they're back um the front building it's proposed to be it's all retail on the first floor one thing that I I mentioned to Peter and we didn't make any changes to the buildings to until you know tonight we'll
119get feedback and and listen but I think we'll do some uh awnings whether it's awnings or canopies or hide canopies something to um give this more of a commercial Edge but when we look at the elevations uh or the rendering the specific rendering for this but these first two were shown because the back buildings are back they're they're going to be um difficult to see when somebody is driving by and you know even walking by it's uh they they're definitely uh they won't have much impact on the streetcape um if we can go to the next one please so building a four-story building we have a manside roof for a portion of it um some Bays all the materials on all four buildings are residential scale material so it' be cement board uh a mixture
120of cement board paneling whether it's ASAC paneling um claid there's some shingles um but there's a mixture of materials that would make it residential but the shape of the roof line is in this particular one this is a manad um and the manside kind of towers that anchor the the building and then these bays in the in the middle portion again have residential scale the one comment that I you know we did this work a long time ago and we've been waiting I shouldn't say we've been waiting but the the engineering team has been doing their diligence their work is harder than our work at this level so I look at this we could soften up that ground floor a little bit we have tall Windows storefront but they're not commercial storefronts we plan on
121using residential windows we did a project res Rec in Lexington similar scale to this and we thought it was you know wood windows oversized not aluminum storefront um just to keep again give it a a residential scale but not gabled um so that's one thing that we we think we can improve on is softening up the the the connection between the first floor and the second floor but the the shape of the building four stories approximately 44 F feet in height um depends upon you know final details but um that's the that's building a we have some elevations of it too but I think the rendering shows it probably best um if we want it to go to the next the next one if you don't mind we'll go through all of them and then
122we can we'll stop so that's the this is elevation view but I think we can just skip skip this one Building B is the um one with the amenity space at the ground floor um similar design idea in terms of The Bays lots of Bays something that would break up the flatness but you can see in the the upper right hand that would be the half story so we would have internal duplexes so the elevator wouldn't have to go to that top floor so there'd be a unit mix so maybe two bedroom units up there that would have um uh it would be steep back and it and even this particular Rend in the next one U for building C you can't see it this one you can't see the the renderings don't lie you
123will see this but it is step back approximately 25 ft that second floor um that would be continuous around the entire building but it's just doesn't show up on the left side so this is a again mixture of materials but it's not the same building but you know there's some some Clues to the to the front building elevation and Building C this one is in the back uh this one does have a roof um you know canopy that breaks up the first floor there's um it was designed with parking on the ground level and we're we're still developing the need for that um so that's what a lot of the the windows there not not as many windows on this ground floor as as there are in the others so they potentially will be parking
124in this a garage parking but the U that same Bay concept but this is just a A variation of it um and the colors and the materials this we introduced shingles and U you know paint Scheme but it's you know it's they're flat roof buildings they would all have concealed Mechanicals all the little suitcase condenses would be hidden behind screen walls um but um again because they're four-story buildings I've always found it to be challenging that's all and I know there's some other projects in town that that are very nice buildings but you our approach was just a little bit different and that's that's where we are that's what brought us today next please I don't know why that got in twice but it shouldn't be oh that got in twice oh that's the elevation
125okay yeah and then the last one this is a little cute little commercial building building D where we spent a little bit more time this does have Gables because it is a 2 and a half story building there would be two stories of commercial um and the upper level would be you know more just like attic space but it's uh it's designed between those two houses to be a little bit more of a you know an oversized uh oversized uh residential structure but that this is where we we find Gables can be successful so that is our that's our story that brings us here and you know I think getting feedback at this level at a scoping session or you know conversation was really helpful to us and we can come back and be a
126little more responsive to uh what you think is works better all right thank you for the presentation um I think I think we're just it's just a general discussion here about questions and um ideas and you sort of answered it but looking at that map in front of us where's 126 the right right there and so at that street level as you're driving by you're really not seeing that back building building what building is that see okay and this is this is all heavily landscaped it's not our property yeah you see it yeah see the image of it I mean I guess my my initial response to it is I like how the big building is in the back and I like the the fact that there's commercial inter integrated into is it integrated I
127know it's in the little one is it integrated in two of the three big ones no it's building a is the uh is the that is 13,000 the one that's facing yeah so the looking at the totals I think was like 40,000 40,000 square feet total with maybe 15 commercial or 20 I think it's 13,000 in that building and then four in the building d I think that's a great start in other words I I'm pleased with the level of integration it would be great to have a little bit more commercial because it is the 126 Corridor so those are my my I guess positive reactions as far as like constructive feedback um that's a lot of pavement and parking and sort of that's a lot um and I I wonder what we can do
128to I like I got excited when I heard the words garage I I sort of would I I got excited about the idea of that open space if you will and and I'm sort of curious how we can find a better balance there so it's not so concrete oriented um and then my last kind of point of feedback is I wonder if it can be reconfigured a little bit so that I get the idea the front building has commercial so you want it close to 126 like like I get that I really do but I wonder if there can be a different way to pull the public in because it seems like there's a lot of space on this land like is there some way we can configure these buildings so that they're a little
129further away from the street but the public still wants to come in like can that green space maybe have more of a public facade a playground that's closer to 126 people want to come into more of a green green space that happens to have commercial kind of further down that was my initial reaction like this is a lot of this is a big site for what you're doing can we configure these a little bit differently so that the first thing you see coming into the space for commercial use is more green and less concrete those are my reactions okay just a few questions before going a little deeper you said there's 200 units do you know what the makeup of those units is it's a mix of one and twos it's schematic at 100 of
130100 ons and 1002s it could be a mix of Threes as well there could be more threes and that's something feedback on that is uh you know this is a the pawn Street I always get the PS mixed use yeah mixed use overlay District yeah I get I get always get it my brain gets jumbled but so it is the mixed use if there is a with 10% of the units would be affordable would be affordable units um so you're just that you're just just offering 10% well I that that is not not your not your yeah I almost put it on there there would be a 10% minimum but that's up for that's beyond my pay grade that's uh yep I get it that's our client's uh and then and then you said the
13117,000 commercial space which is all in those two buildings okay can I jump in really quick yep I just wanted to get oh go ahead sorry I just wanted to get both the kind of data Ju Just to kind of reverse back to my original Point like building a which is closest to 126 like why not squeeze it more towards the back and move that green space from the center again towards that edge I the configuration of it if I'm driving one down 126 do I really need to see it does it have to be that close I guess is my immediate I'm I keep coming back to it I'm like I think that is the biggest opportunity we have with this design to move those buildings around so that the Public's View of it
132is a bunch of appealing open space Maybe playground maybe some benches that pull you in make you want to drive in and rather than a building yeah I I we have a project that we're that's under construction happens to be in Westwood as well and it's and we did that we did we introduced a playground we had pickle ball quits but they've become so controversial that we took them out um but I I'm I'm I'm listening it's the playground is actually going to be if you're trying to engage with the 126 Corridor and you've got all this space and you're trying to get people to come in and use the commercial space and make it exciting there seems to be room there for that y y I I I like it I I I will
133start with the where where where Anna left off um I have a kind of a in terms of the site and the sighting of the of the masses and I know this is schematic design so you're still working the the scheme out uh but there's one one thing that just comes to mind when I see this is that the buildings are placed and and and there's some things going around them but there's not um like a a communal theme that really connects them there's some parking lots here there's a there's kind of a core uh landscape developed there but it it seems like the landscape and and and and the parking could be maybe a little more more integrated into how the buildings relate to each other relative to building a um I think it
134would be really good we we spend a lot of time on another project on Palm Street um that has not been built yet but the the discussion was a lot of similar to what Anna's bringing up on on on this one which is the connection of the project at large with the public realm of what the intent of that Corridor is you know the the idea is that there's a place for riding your bike and and so the the intention of that whole Corridor is to make it really vibrant and and active and having the building a so conventionally kind of framing the street with just a parking lot and commercial space is it's is it's not as as as as attractive and as as um successful as having a little more room and on
135the other project one one one one concept that was developed that we really liked and that we thought how nice would be if if if the whole Corridor kind of embraced that approach as projects get developed and there's the concept of you may be familiar with it you know a landscape concept of of the V Nerf which is a more pedestrian and and and and integrated cars and ped but but it feels more like a plaza not just like a parking lot in front of uh strip mall and when you when you have that and and you integrate the sidewalks the the bicycle path that's part of that road that project then your your building a becomes really a really attractive anchor and in in terms of the architectural features that you have I I
136think you have a good start I mean you have to end um book hands with a different roof configuration I mean I'm not going to going to criticize the the style and anything but I think I I I think having not having you know other projects you see you would have a continuous Gable and it and the building looks flat and really long you were breaking it up and I think that's a good thing to do I think you could articulate maybe a little more it's just have in instead of having like a wide Bay right in the middle of each of each block it would probably feel a little more residential if there maybe three smaller base or something more lined up with what you have above the first floor and the first floor
137uh and and you you mentioned that you still have to develop the language of the the retail space it it doesn't it doesn't feel like it's differentiated enough um whether it's some people would have awnings or or or or or or or a different kind of architectural expression there but it really feel I think it's good if it feels different or if there's some type of of I don't know Reeses or or or roof line or something that shows that the retail it gives it a little more visual privacy to the to the residential and I think that that will make it more successful so o overall I mean there's you're still developing the architectural language but I think if if if the project Embraces more the the the 126 Corridor in in a way
138that really uh kind of yields to to The Pedestrian and the activity there and if in the future we we we accomplish that all along that Corrido would be really vibrant and nice so I I would encourage you to look at what was approved for that one just as an inspiration or or just for information purposes because it will give you a sense of how of of of the of the depth of the front setback that was left on that project and it was ultimately a lot of work but it was very successful and I think you have a room here to do that and to integrate the three the three buildings um in in a landscape form something that that is that is less segmented yeah here is the parking this something that is
139more integrated yeah and and I'm sure you you'll get there I mean what are you doing with the small building is actually pretty nice you know you're really making it first one was really feel feel like it I don't know what use will be there is that for release for commercial space or I don't know what it's commercial that that would be commercial but it's kind of the proportion feels like it's being it's it's more complete and I'm sure you you will go through that on the big buildings um um that's kind of overall can I ask the planning board a question just I I haven't looked at the Zoning for this section for a while how what is the maybe Peter you're the right person to ask I guess let's say that hypothetically speaking
140let's say a developer comes in and says for safety reasons and fire issues I need a parameter to drive in a fire truck around all these buildings but I'm going to build a garage instead of all this parking in the front is there zoning that would allow that on this site to allow a a large enough garage that we can make more of this green and still keep the 200 Apartments like what is our zoning relative to structures designed for garages not residential use like a garage that has commercial space just hypothetically like let's say we have all of the parking in the back of the site in a garage that happens to have commercial space in it so parking you're talking about a hypothetically speaking struct parking structure parking right yeah Structure Parking and
141what would be the zoning on that in other words could you still have two primary buildings that are purely residential and a big building in the back with parking and and Commercial would the zoning allow that that's a I don't know if you don't know the answer would there's just a lot of space here is what I'm after there's a lot of space and we don't really have we don't have anything on 126 right now that allows for substantial parking and this just asks for it like this size of this size of property with intentional commercial to me is just a unique opportunity to think about that let me just ask this one question about parking are you Ash's parking requirement ments call for two parking spaces per unit are you proposing two parking spaces
142per unit is it's actually the way that I that I read it it's one for for one bedroom and one and a half okay so you're using the you're using the um the still a lot of parking yeah it's it's 325 spaces three yeah 325 and that's you know I think I know about enough about zoning to be dangerous you could do an accessory structure that's a parking garage it's just the it feels to me it's like a little Office Park like but what what we could do is Building B and C could have parking in the in the in the ground floor the reason I bring that up is that you seem to have enough space for that kind of thinking where again you you get inspired by what 126 was supposed to be
143126 was supposed to be that sort of pedestrian bicycle commercial space where you can you can come you can park you can live you can enjoy it's going to open up that space and bring people in and it will be very different from all no offense to the rest of the developers that we've approved it's going to look a little different from these boxes that we have down 126 that are happening unless you want to look like a box well they are boxes right now sure right but it it it's not particularly unique but you seem to have a configurated space that's different from all the other spaces so you seem to have enough room for this kind of creative thinking yeah I I actually Bruce whe but I see what you're getting at Anna
144but I I think structured parking here would be the opposite of what we want because there's a there's a limit of of of when that makes sense um what what can be done is something in the building yeah something like what they could be more integrated with the buildings and maybe that's a solution that they can study uh I I think if the whole site feels more more like it's like it's really connected with itself and with 128 landscape wise and the pathways and the materials maybe in the front that that alone will do there that guess is there structal parking the garage was truly a question that was hypothetical for the board because we've never done that on 126 for this applicant I understand that it's more realistic to kind of integrate more parking
145into the buildings themselves which would open up that green space more again in theory you put a playground or some sort of beautiful space in the front people are going to want to come in to shop there or to hang out there yeah so all of the first floor all of the first floors the two Builder the two big buildings there's residence on the first floor is that right it it's right now all the parking is outside but we have been thinking about putting some of the parking inside so I think this opens the door to you know I think at 325 spaces it it's adequately parked sometimes we overpark it's 1.6 per unit is it 1.6 that I so I that just mixes up uh um 1.6 even at a one-bedroom that that's just
146325 divided by 20 oh yeah but I took 68 off the um for the commercial okay it's one per 250 square feet but this is the analysis already been George put together a whole book of site analysis that I um you know again it's tonight we're getting more into the the site layout which is great it's uh it's good feedback because the building the design of the building the exteriors was really a concept that we did a while back this is Bruce wheer by the way he's the property owner um um thanks for coming in and it's um I think the site there's a there's reasons why we did everything there's an easement that cuts through the site there's a James Road dead ends and we just continued the geometry of that there's a lot
147of wetlands so there's a lot of reasons why we did it's definitely not an easy side I mean there there's a lot of things going on but so that created some of the some of the geometry but I think the the idea of a park eliminating some of the parking structuring some of the parking I think all those things George and I will um you know will definitely look into I I wonder about because I think there's I think there is like a lot there's a lot going on with it and it doesn't seem in a way that there's like a really clear theme to me that I mean when I when I first um saw this project or heard about this project and how it's kind of deepen deep back from 126 it kind
148of touches 126 but goes back I thought what was going to be proposed was that you drive into the site and there's commercial and residential throughout the site like commercial on more of the first floors that you go into the site to go to a restaurant or have some features back there and was much more combined than to have kind of this little bit of I mean relative to the size of the building a smaller amount of commercial on the front and the back be all residential I can I can see that it's not quite Pawn Street as much Pawn Street mixed use as I would have hoped you know given that it's our commercial quarter TS kind of one little box on the street and everything else is residential but even in if even
149if I if we buy that that the the residential seems so it is really a sea of asphalt you know in there and the that's the theme and the parking comes so I don't agree with the dog park the park that no I mean that's the theme they but the uh yeah the the the parking comes so close to those buildings I mean it's parking space I mean that it's it's 10 ft tops I can see around some of the back of those buildings where the parking comes close to the building and um and for such a large site to have to be squished in that much um I wonder about the diagonal building I I can understand you like we're making this central part where the paths are I know it's just schematic but
150it's hard to use that space for anything besides just walking through right with the paths but then the other building the building on the corner seems to make a an angle like there should be something coming out there the diagonal building seems to have an axis to it but just really leads to more parking so I I guess to me like I don't see a place being formed it seems more like a needs a bike path a scattering of buildings Without Really forming a a a space and I think that's indicative to me on the elevations as well that the one little building has a real character and the other ones are really struggling I don't mind the flat roofs at all flat you know lots of buildings have flat roofs and not just modern
151ones you can use look at ton of industrial buildings or 1800s buildings and they have flat roofs and beautiful cornices and they're gorgeous I know the Midwest is full of them right um but the flat roofs here you know I think that they can easily express a different I guess that's why I was I was kept looking at that first floor like well yeah just make it look more commercial right but it's not commercial it's residential and I think that's you know I don't know if there's amenities that go in there that if parking can take up half the first floor and amenities on the other second floor to make it seem more like a something a a communal space and then you know the residences are above you know that might mean you know
152like I'm just wondering if is 200 units you know I get I get putting in 200 units but um boy Ashen is just we're getting swamped with units right now right and what we really need is more commercial space especially along this Corridor especially along this well so the the pond Street mius R it does have to make a destination to live work visit shop right so exactly it it's a commercial right so that was is our commercial Corridor and if we're trading commercial for mixed use we we want to try to get that I don't I don't um mix I'm not saying we don't want residential because you need anybody who's in business will say that they need people that live there to support those local businesses otherwise the local businesses don't survive so
153we need the residents but I'm wondering about the balance and the plac making that really makes this a place of arrival well and that's exactly like have you guys looked at any like what types of businesses like people constantly say like maybe maybe there is a small office building that's Medical but now it's integrated into this like Plaza right and I mean I agree with everything about the parking like I wish that um and we are the planning board so I guess it's wishing us would update our zoning because there are towns that they just say no please don't make it don't put Asphalt in the front don't make that the front view I mean literally I think um I'm blanking on the town now but I've seen then they go nice little stop don't
154do this nice little yes please do this right very simple um but there's room for that there no I'm that's what I'm saying unfortunately our zoning doesn't have that where other towns do so let's pretend that we do have that and ask and that's why they're here which is great and I think um so all of the above and integrating and I I I will say the multiple Building Concept I really like like instead of just trying to get like you could have said here's your giant thing I'm giving you right and um maybe you knew that wouldn't be pleasing but at least you tried to start thinking about that so and and I agree but but with that is getting back to what Trisha was saying just the multiple buildings work when when when
155they're working together right and there's a kind of a meid point where you want to create um an arrival and a commercial really attractive commercial front to 128 and then the idea of a Central Park whether it's attached to that building or maybe really a Central Park to this complex it's nice as a residential portion to have a little bit of privacy to get your dog or get your kids if there's something to do that is not where the cars go right so there's kind of a midpoint right now it's um I mean what we're seeing is a really STP in 128 for the commercial so there doesn't feel that it's doing more than typical you know double loaded asphalt U parking spot on any On Any Given Street um and and the park for
156the residential unit it's kind of attached to one of the buildings but surrounded by by by asphalt so it is it just that the scheme is seems a little disjointed now and it's kind of a process of of of really connecting everything and make it not only that you have to drive your car inside there just to to to to arrive but what what happens when you when when you come in your bike or where you come walking uh what is the experience do you have to just drive walk next to the driveway or is there any sort of U of of maybe a a Gateway in in the front building when you could go through and arrive to the residential units on the back and it's more of a a village feel as opposed
157to just isolated buildings parked over here around parking that's okay I would also say because I don't know exactly how close the house is but there's there are some and I know you're not probably this far along but like screening is really important and have you talked to any of the neighbors cuz I would hope like it's early enough to maybe talk to the neighbors yeah we haven't but I think that's a great suggestion and we intend to um we don't have a ton of neighbors so be a giant job so but uh we we will uh uh we were we wanted to get the application submitted get initial feedback from the planning board and then start integrating uh neighbors before public hearings but uh this is this is an ideal time to reach out
158and uh uh and and uh and talk to me feedback and and what is the blue on the the blue on this it's Wetlands that's Wetland okay those are detach Bas gotcha so like I'm imagining if I live there or if I visit this and I'm there for commercial use that could be that side might be a very nice site to have more green space and less parking yeah so I I I guess I'm imagining I'm on a bike or something and I want to go to this charming little building back there how do I get there if I enter this this from this side for building a how do I go to the Charming commercial building if I'm bik bicycling in or walking in so I think she's talking about can you point to
159James Road okay yeah there's a road there oh there's a James Road right there that's known as James road so people are just going to use James Road to go to the charm okay so and is there a sidewalk on James road that goes all the way to those back Wetlands no crumbling it it's basically a dirt road okay I'm just trying to think like if there can be a way to build some kind of path pathway either for for walking or whatever maybe put the commercial or the I don't know what how I'm going to think about this but like either put the Green in the back so people want to go to the I guess the prettier Place rather than parking I think that's a great idea I mean like a good food
160for thought and H how can you integrate those Wetlands is there some pathway without disturbing the Wetland that that could be part of of the experience of having that and attracts people to that little Charming thing that that little Charming building right maybe put the playground in the back and force people towards the charm that way I don't know I'm just kind of brainstorming rather than this is a no but I think what an say I think that's it you have all don't know what kind ofce view saying some way toig this to have like a central can around where you you would want to get to that from the public side and go and experience that think about it that's what you're saying yeah because there's a little more a better of connection with
161then more partly what I'm trying to motivate is people to go to the Charming little building that's so adorable and actually do something other than going to that Charming little building so maybe it's so Charming that they want to keep walking towards the back of where you were pointing to because there's more charm back there and is the projects proposing to fix that road maybe more commercial back there is the project proposing to fix that crumbling road that dirt road or or or not have to we can yeah yeah we would have to um I also want to thank you if you actually mentioned playground because I always ask and there's going to be children there and where do they go so that's amazing thank you um I hope that stays and doesn't get budget
162cutter squished out um I think it's really important um and and I think the uh yeah some so I live on off of 126 and when the sidewalk project came we just said sidewalks just give us sidewalks and you probably see every day they already get used and they're not even like really complete so so there will be if you can kind of get this to be a space people want to go um I think that and not just live right cuz if you just live and they get in their car and go some where that doesn't ultimately have the vibrancy and um to make your project unique is what we asked for with the pwn street but I also think that's long-term viability your project right when sure they're they're not going to want
163to leave your space they're going to go to the cheaper apartment right or maybe it'll be condos even better have you guys thought about condos um I think that's that's something uh George mentioned that uh he get some feedback about uh the possibility of doing uh for sale Condominiums as opposed to rentals and that's something that we'll uh take a close look awesome so um that's a product that we like as well we we thought that the rental um our initial thought was that the rental uh uh development made more sense here but um uh we'll take a close look at it and see make that work please look at 501 Pawn for that commercial 501 was the project that you mentioned that hasn't been built yet that's a and I'm happy to share any
164information yeah that would be great I'd love to see that yeah I think just also just keeping in mind the affordability component like I know at 10% is mandatory you know I I think along um using um the p Street overlay District um but obviously the me is a minimum and so for projects for projects that have minimal affordability I'd be looking for more and more commercial space like like what you know what is it what is it giving to the community besides a lot more residences where we got a lot of those coming you know we got a lot of rentals coming and um so you know so what else what what why why is this going to be an asset and I think looking at those Wetlands I no idea what they look
165like you know but how do we how do we make this more than just some some scattered buildings you know on the site how do we yeah it's like almost like the the side wants to have a story that you can tell a story what's the story yeah is it pretty back there it is I mean the wetlands uh I don't know about the wetlands but some I live not too far but I'm not in a butter so um it's just it's cish I think when you go back on James yeah at very yeah so that can be appealing to your residents as well rather than staring at a parking lot maybe they go there to a nice restaurant that overlooks apparently a pretty wet space and that or maybe there's a playground back there
166or some sort of pleasant space rather than parking that they're looking at and and and almost like um that we were talking so we have a a green belt on the back we have a green quad in the middle we have a corner where the its playground is it seems like all these things deserve to be connected and deserve to to have a story that really kind of grabs all the assets of the side and the buildings are just part of it not just on top of it and and that probably will make it more successful because that North North is up here right North is up yes yeah so if there's any way with where the buildings can be cited in a way that the green area is all facing South to get some
167good Sun uh even in the winter that would make it a space that that's more attractive because if you have the The Building B right now as it CED right now if I understand it correctly would be shading the the the good portion of it would be in shade yes um so so it's a little less successful Accord that is in shade in New England that if you have one something that the Sun or maybe there's this a place where the buildings are kind of surrounding this place where the sun really hits the green area and it's connected with the where the kids play play and then you can take your dog and just take a little walk through the Wetland I know there's a story that you can start kind of uh this like
168stitching uh a quilt of of pieces into into a hole and and and I think that would there's so much interesting stuff happening here that there's a lot of tools that can be start to be interconnected I assume you're already like in touch with Beth Beth Reynolds the economic development director of ashin we have not yeah I mean she would be a good person to connect with obviously for all the the commercial space like what what types of things are people looking for in Ashland that that businesses are what you know that she's looking for space for who's looking for space in Ashland and unable to find Space um would be a good place to to start there but a great outet should be I think Place could provide opportunities for that okay well I'll
169I'll reach out and Peter can sit yeah I'm happy to obviously Bruce very nice to meet you tonight um but I'm very I I'm happy to introduce you to Beth and what she does I know you know as this project was very kind of at the beginning blocks you know I think this conversation was to happen first and then we can kind of take it to the next steps that' be wonderful but I'm happy to do that we do very much appreciate all of you coming in and person and be willing to talk to us before anything formal and just kind of taking the temperature and getting some ideas and we we really appreciate that process I think it's very it's very for us we appreciate it as well I have a question how soon
170sorry evening we like to continue the dialog uh so we can settle into something that everyone feels good about great thank you do you have a um timeline to actually apply well I think we'll uh we have a lot of work to do so I think um we have to assess and get back to Peter um and so I I have a question on the on the architectural language is is there a reason for the maner roof is there something that you want to introduce as the style or is where is that coming from the man side was trying to get because I did get some feedback early on that to get give it some residential it's not my favorite I said it at the uh when we met I Peter probably heard the more
171passionate Mike McKay than I am tonight because I'm on TV I I was like I'm not putting gables on a four-story building I was I was no I'm glad you say that because I I just wanted to know what the origin of that language is it came because of uh trying to get some clue so if I'd be happy to uh I would say get rid of it you you're a successful architect I I I think we I I am I would be very open to have some contemporary language as long as it's kind of proportion and respectful you don't have to go to maner if just just to that's why we make it look residential some people feel that way I don't feel that way I think we are in the 21st century you
172can make a building of the 21st century that that that feels right but that feels not just um some people go crazy with that and you do all kinds of angle things like you don't have to do that but but the language could be contemporary you don't have to go to to some historicism of maner roofing I personally don't don't feel if you want to do it because you're the designer fine but we're not going to be pleased so if you want to visit something else please do it one thing I'll say is 126 in my opinion does not have a very clean story or language as you put it no other than no offense the really ugly building next to Kate's house um no offense to anyone they tried to put maner roof on
173on that one but it's not really it's gone so that's the standard just don't be as ugly is the building L to Kate um no that's this put a better sty than that but in all seriousness we can we can we we the planning board and and you as the um developer we can in Theory come up with a language that can impact 126 I personally would love to see something less no offense to anyone boring that you keep seeing in every single town over and over and over again and so yeah it would be really interesting just like we created a very un unque visual for the the the the mill buildings in downtown which had almost like like a modern Industrial Field the one we all liked yeah that would be nice that
174would be a rendering you should let him see let's give him that one give him that one the nice one not not the last one but the one before the one that we all love that no one liked yeah that one yes can you give them that one because I think this board would love that in Ashland and 126 may be the right place for it because again no offense to anyone 126 right now does not tell any story so maybe we should think of what that story looks like maybe you will inspire other developers again not to replicate every other rectangular sorry boring building being built in Framingham Westboro all over the place where it's becoming kind of it just looks cheap again no offense to anyone so maybe we can try to do
175something here that's a little bit more interesting and and the the problem that I see at least personally with some of these buildings I mean you you almost get like a typology right of these four-story buildings and they yeah they they have Gables they have a couple of Dormers there and and and what they do is the they they have these mass building they break it up somehow and then they put six different colors on all these different parts and just it it just becomes almost like like comical I I don't think that you need to go there I think if you are you know tast ful and and and and have some some architectural uh expression that is not just the the the standard just one Bay here and one Gable there and this
176is green this is blue this is red this is we're tired of that Bruce met me through a building that we did that was more modern that was it was not a traditional commercial building right that's how and we we have certainly as as success ful as that Westwood project that everybody seems to love I think it looks like Disney World it's like it's like we're making a village that shouldn't be a village it's um but and not so I think that everything you've said hits me and it gives good inspiration tonight but I think if if Peter gives you that drawing that we all love that will really Mo be I think that will be a good visual of what we're talking about um it's very modern almost yeah it's very very modern very
177different from anything I've seen in the region and I think that would make 126 kind of exciting honestly and it might motivate other development to look a little bit more unique great I know that I can speak confidently Bruce wants this that's what he wants he does not want this to be a block of well that's clear because you came to talk to us so clearly you care number one and number two you're not building an ugly rectangle you're breaking it apart and you've got a little Charming thing right there so that was Peter's Peter Peter said what the hell is this it we call it Charming Peter no now it is now it's Charming it wasn't Charming three weeks ago it wasn't Charming it was the most Charming building it was now it's Charming
178I told him to rethink it yeah we hadn't really thought it so that's the the truth with and maybe if the rest of it is more modern that charm needs to change as well or maybe not maybe you got that charm that that actually fits in with my part of the neighborhood because it's like they older houses and there and that scale so and it's far from the big buildings so it's not connected so I could keep the charm in the little one but how do you feel about the bigger ones keep being more modern I think wait and see I think I'm excited because you guys bothered to come in and talk to us like the no risk nothing um which is amazing and I already see steps that are way different than than
179um that we've seen so I'm excited it is exciting yeah good great well thank you for coming in all right thank you obviously will whatever you communicate to Peter he'll let us know stay tou with me what's Beth's last name Reynolds I'm I'm happy to make that connection Mike and George and sadly George has got my email uh but George knows how to get in contact with think I do I know I know uh I can I can make those introductions fairly easily great and I was on the email earli this morning Geor about us coming in in person okay yeah okay on that okay I have your email I'll make some I'll make the connections from that then okay just give me a day or two yeah yeah appion okay I'll try to do
180that Mike well done George he does look translate that he does look he does look good thank you thank you thank you very much yes go Cinderella I said g it's just minutes I think we can too you're not the only one gotcha we we got this skiing where where there snow up north okay uh okay so oh getting it right now okay so um Peter and I just you might have notice kind of simplified this again because it was getting like super super long um we we kept discussion review of retreat items because we feel like whenever as we discussed before whenever something falls off our our agenda unexpectedly we can always go back to that list and start ending can I just say something on topic then can we get Adu though as
181a separate thing cuz that's February of 25 when that's uh the law did did the guidelines come out yet yeah right now there's no guidelines I'm signed up to do a mapc seminar um Monday I'm signed up for a mass Municipal law associations conference on the 17th of December uh Doug our Building Commissioner went to a conference of Building Commissioner well a meeting of building Commissioners uh they there was representation from the state from the office of the executive office of housing um everybody's asking the same question when are these regul where are these regulations when are they going to come out nobody has been able to kind of crack the code uh but you are correct the law at this point goes into effect February 2nd of 2025 so we we aren't going to
182call a special town meeting for we won't be ready but may so regardless because I know people that deal with state agency that have been told for 5 years I'm getting new guidelines and they don't we cannot be waiting for that if if Ashlin wants to have craft some rules around it which I would think we would want to do so I am not an advocate of waiting I don't think that's help I think we'll just be looking for someone to spearhead it and to start that process if there needs to be a so does the agenda item cover it in other words if if well I'm asking to I think we should bring it on as as agenda yeah I think we can put it on our agenda for the first meeting in January
183we'll start out fresh with that I don't want to plug up December with anything else at this point but if well we only have one more meeting in December exactly um so if um so we can put it on our first meeting in January to start talking about this but again I think it's about you know okay you know who wants to work on it who's going to spearhead it you know um and then and then and then go from there kind of finding examples from other communities which ones we like which ones we don't like so it sounds like we have to have a discussion because like if we're the planning board we should be planning but if the board doesn't want to plan like we it sounds like we're way back there we
184have to decide if we want to do something so that should be a if we if we're if we're agreeing to put Adu we should put Adu and airbnbs together on the January agenda yeah and once it's on that agenda I mean I've informally started looking at both sets of bylaws I have some little examples here there at the very least I can just bring that stuff in and we can start talking I think that's a good point and if it's like a 20 minute meeting and we start to like have a little bit of a work session of like I can bring in a few examples like I said I already have them I'll print them I'll bring them in and we talk and like write some stuff down that will be good progress
185that way we're not like ooh we're only going to talk about it when something is ready let's just put it there Adu airbnbs that will force me to bring my stuff in and then it's public that we're talking about it and let's have a 30 minute working session about it as a starting guide I just think like that we have to understand that most of that work is going to happen outside the planning board by those people who are volunteering to work on it not inside the planning board but let's say we do it for periodically they come back report just like MBT communities so let's say in January we have this convers because I finally bring theu in because it's on the agenda that might INSP someone on this board I'm going to say
186Marcel let's say to say o I really like this design element for adus that I really want to focus on and then Marcelo and I can go out and do deal with a little sub subcommittee it just motivates action because I feel like this is not enough pressure on any of us like we all have great ideas of what we want to do but it's such a general item that we never have anything to talk about we can put it on the agenda for first first meeting in January and that people should short-term rentals sorry I apologize short-term rentals and that people should come with stuff to talk about not like okay let's talk about it absolutely yeah I will I will not be given a choice and I will bring in some examples of
187sorry short-term rentals and Adu and those communities that are already doing the work on this and then Peter by then will have input from his sessions we're going we you know we're working on it obviously we getting in input from The Building Commissioner he has lots of questions right um I have some questions regarding pre you know some things and I think we can bring this information together at a meeting yeah and I don't think it I I don't think we're necessarily looking for communities who have already dealing with the Adu bylaw lots of communities have Adu bylaws way before this yep so um and think NM had an extensive you you had pointed it out to me yeah they Hado exensive they had extensive Ed Adu by look so looking at those kind of
188documents and saying H which of these fit as which don't which what are they what are they trying to do by putting in this this requirement like what what's their I also think we also have to start we have to look at the law right I think that's the other thing we need to go back to is say okay what was the law what was passed what needs to be allowed what does not what is not allowed right and then where do we go from here right so I mean I can put on my lawyer hat and work with Peter if you want yeah no I'm happy to I'm supposed to step up a little bit yeah what what am I now I have no idea what I am your Vice chair there we go
189but um so I could you know I could work with Peter on that little piece of it yeah so we can refresh the board's mind be great um and I think when when I'm talking about questions right we're talking about um and and I'm going to spear had a meeting with the DPW and and Doug The Building Commissioner to say okay internally what are we looking for right are these going to be separate units okay what how does that fit the building Cod right um how will we but the building code we don't control that by know I know that but I'm just think I'm just kind of thinking we as a town internally from from an infrastructure standpoint are thinking about okay do you have to add a existing water tap to the main
190in the street to drag in to to pull in to these separate units can these separate units be connected to the same meter on the house these are all elements are still haven't been kind of ironed out yet right and so from one standpoint we're going to look at from a zoning perspective right what can we do what's a what what does allow a law what does the law allow right and they pretty much said you can't Grant special permit these are allowed by right so you're going to have to go through a site plan plan approval process right so if you do have to go through a site plan approval process what are the elements that we the town need to look at what are the elements that the planning board is going to
191be interested in and what are the elements that the pl what the town which would be the building commission or the DPW that it should all go into the document of whatever it is the Board of Health what are we going to be looking at and and how does this need to be ironed out because that's what towns are looking at right now right and and the other thing is is what are these regulations going to call for at the state level right and so there's a number of different matters that still need to be ironed out in my eyes um and they're all coming from different points of view right which are good and so I think having that conversation in the new year is is going to have to need to happen and
192um but I'm just thinking there's a lot of things yeah that's why I think we can have we can almost have a a a shopping list of various things that were in need them like like they were things like um okay you have to actually have a garage for an Adu I think that's you have to have a parking space for an Adu in Ashland right now but um I think in NM the garage the new garage could not be visible from the street right like it's like stuff like that there's you can't even require a garage with the new with the new law you mean we have to check I'm I'm not saying as an example I'm this is an example right so I'm saying the things that need them before this law was
193was putting into effect I don't know if it got passed or not right there might be things like okay the Adu can't be taller than the existing house right or can you put a two-story Adu just I'm just throwing things out there but if we have a shopping list of all those different things then when the regulations come out we can just see okay we can't regulate that we can't regulate that we can't regulate that what can we control because I'm I mean there's quite a bit now about about about telling you exactly what we can and can't regulate and the what you can regulate is where they might give more but I don't think we should wait but yeah so there's ours ours right now could be tweaked very little and be compliant what
194we would what we're lacking is some of those controls that we could have in our current exactly that's that's what I'm saying so the good news is there are communities like Worcester who did all of this already a year ago January 2024 Worcester adopted their zoning Provisions for adus and all of these issues that you just listed every single one they're they literally have a frequently Asked question section that covers whether or not you connect when you don't connect it's literally done great so you start with with that template and you say okay here's a template from Wester as an example this is what we could do in January here's a template from Wester here's the law the state has passed let's just do a quick checklist what's covered what's not what do we need
195to do more what's it called classes on and what can we as a planning board start to just wrap up because we're not the First Community to deal with it no I mean no even we're just behind there's I one town on the cape that I was looking at recently they they have one that that you can do 12200 square feet adus right there's all kinds of yeah you know um so there's all kinds of things out there I'm just like let's put this stuff on the table and start to and start to look at it before we judge any of it so and and what's right you know for the community so that that's that'll be just step one in January um is anyone interested because I I think we should but I'm not
196going to spend the time if no one's interested is like we tried to get the public like MBTA zoning and and getting some stuff published now I can't say how many people looked at it but I've seen a lot of good like really like yes no like very simple documents and I think we should make one and I could start pulling something I'm not sure what you're about adus Yeah by right like by right it it can't be 1,200 feet square feet it has to be 900 square feet or half half or like half size ex hold on I'm not sure what you're asking are are ask I could start making a pamphlet yes and no what's allowed if we would put on the website but I'm not going to bother if we don't want
197to do that W do the homework yeah and like our own from Ashland I mean or or mod IFI or pull in somebody else's make a space on that planning board site like frequently ask questions about the state law that just got passed you're willing to create a little well not if we're not going to do anything with it but um yeah let let's go back go back go back go back okay so it sounds like the first thing you're interested is greater public engagement yes in the the Adu process similar to what we did with MBTA well I mean parallel yes parallel yes that we have people come in we have things available online whatever a part of that may be a frequently asked questions which we don't know the answers to right now
198or are you talking about there may be a poll like asking people their opinion because we don't have the answers to frequently ask questions right now well I mean we could we have some of them but we don't know all of them right we don't even know what Ashen wants well I mean other that's a good point I don't know how manage that but other other other communities have asked a poll about like which things would you want us to consider under that so that's not necessarily a bad idea okay so it's a there could be a frequently asked questions about what we know now there could be a poll about some issues and it's sure a and it could be getting people hopefully getting people in for feedback yes about I think that's important
199kind of push it out there the way we did NBTA to try to get people in to get the feedback I think it's help okay what I don't want to do is just keep dumping documents online that we're not ready to put online yet that we that we don't have so they're just it's just stuff I want stuff no it's it's about public engagement so it's not about stuff so the good engagement is one first and then the stuff so the good news is NAC actually already did it per state law so just about the state law yeah okay they passed it already they're done following the state law lost so they didn't wait for anything they just made it happen and their their pamphlets and frequently asked questions we can adopt it's pretty it's
200pretty good so they already got this done at their fall meeting right um they're not waiting we I mean we should be able to do same or start we don't need to weit train this is a different thing because no matter if we pass it or we don't pass it you still get 900 square ft right right so it it's it's a moot point in in that there's no like hurry the thing is about what are the other things we would like to control that are related to the bylaw 900 fet give it to them 800's pretty tight I just did one right 900 square F feet would be a little more comfy so so but you know what what else what other stipulations if any do we want to put on the right now
201they're there're aren't very many there aren't very many so I'm not sure there should be and I'm I'm betting the state will say say to some of them uh no you can't do that because you're basically preventing people from doing this so but I haven't read those yet I just want to do things in the proper order so we're not just throwing paperwork at a problem I would encourage all of us to review the NAIC Mass website on this it's why don't you send it to Peter so he can send it out someone click on it yeah I can send it out we can steal I do have a template I through through Le you know Lisa has sent you know with template bylaw over you know we're not in the dark let me just
202start right there we're not in the dark about this regulation it's a state law you know I think we were we were our first goal in was to to adopt MBT zoning we did that and now it's the time to switch gears in the new year and look at adus and that's I don't see it as a huge thing because if you presented if you designed and presented the Adu properly and follow the rules I don't think the zoning board of appeals had a problem with it didn't seem to be a big I think I think where there's opportunity is to explore the short-term rental thing at the same time um because oftentimes people people have strong feelings about adus and how to use it for short-term rentals and so that's where it gets a
203little bit more I think that's where it more gets controversial because I don't think very many people have problems actually with adus people see as hey I might need some place I need for my parents to live but now that adus are allowed by rights that's we have to to talk about short-term rentals because now when it's done by right people are going to do it without any regulation and up till now it did need to be a family member so that that's the change not the Adu I would argue that's the part that's more fascinating to me because we can do what na did in a second we can steal there by law and do it but then we need to also talk about short-term rentals that's that's what would that's the controversial part
204and we we can't ignore it because then we have it by right and people can start doing whatever they want unless that's what we want it's an opportunity to kind of address that with the public I I agree so I don't know if Lisa has drafted that you know I don't know we've discussed that I think going back to Trisha's point though I've permited being here for 5 years now I would say we per the zoning board appeals probably permitted two to three Adu B adus no problems it was two two meetings with the zon Bo appeals I've permitted adus in three different communities where I've worked in the last 10 years there's I've never been part of a denial of a edu it was just a process that you have to kind of go
205through and I think that just needs to be formalized but I agree with you Anna let's address short-term rentals let's talk about it let's put it on the table and and um and and move through it I agree it's not going to be as controversial as MBTA but it's just another thing that we have to look at and another area we have to explore and to adopt a regulation to kind of to help manage um add my understanding with the short-term rental stuff is that's potential Revenue I'm just going to throw that out there that is potential revenue for the town of Ashland so short-term rentals correct because you can tax them so we should abs absolutely be talking about that yeah I I agree that we should be talking about I just think that
206um you know as you as I remember someone saying back in the day it's like people just don't add these things on they're they're very expensive they're hundreds of thousands of dollars to add on an Adu unless maybe you're able to have a space in your house already and you're able to convert it it's not something that people just can do every day you know um how a developer might look at it and taking advantage of for short-term rentals that that's a different area it's a related area that that I think is more the like I said the question mark you know kind of thing people putting on an Adu for their own I have a friend who is a short-term rental developer who studies short-term rental regulations and picks communities to develop in it
207that's what people that's people are doing that people will start doing that anywhere which which isn't helping with our housing problem well or it can depending on in theory that's income for local residents and it can help people afford housing that otherwise they're struggling to keep their house in ashin now they can have this they can have an Adu dwelling that they could rent so that's also controversial whether it's helping or hurting but it's going to open up a whole economy here that we now don't have a way to escape because it's by by right right I think we need to go back and start the base and and look at the law and see what the law has to say and then kind of take it take it from there I think what you're
208talking about Anna is is opens up many fronts right who manages it right and because right now we all were you know we're still a small town right we still work up here and we all wear many hats right are we going to start talking about you know hiring additional employees to manage you know short-term rentals that's that's going to be another front to talking about you know and so it it's it's a bigger conversation it the conversation will grow I I I predict all right so the conclusion was that we will add that on to our agenda January agenda with a note that says that ask people to bring in bring in what they have what they know community that had a bylaw before after the law it doesn't really matter um okay I
209think um oh and then we took MBTA communities off the list yay and upcoming meetings okay that will be November at this point November no December no that's going to be December 19th December 19th uh which is going to be virtual virtual and then uh we will obviously I'm going to work with Jen tomorrow um and then looking into January um excuse me I'm going to look at my calendar January will start the new year off on the 9th and then the 23rd uh please note that um 10 to 60 main excuse me 10 to 60 Main Street 40b will start on the 7th um of January with the ZB with the zoning board of appeals um so I I'm sorry what which day will that be uh so we will meet on the 7th
210excuse me we will meet on January 9th and 23rd yep the zoning board of appeals will open up the public hearing on January 7th for 10 to 60 Main Street okay Y which is the Tuesday night of that week are you aiming to have us there no no okay I'm just letting you know because this is this is yep I predict there's going to be some some staffing understood right that I I may be at a planning I may be at a zoning board meeting and Alvaro may be coming to a planning board meeting on the 9th maybe on the nth maybe in the future understood depending on how kind of things fall but as as you is the three of you know and I we all manage lives and families and and and night
211meeting okay so for the agenda still for December on our on our December 19th agenda we're going to have the dog park in the cell tower which we're yep and the cell tower the dog park which we're going to try to with both of these projects thoroughly kind of get all our ducks in a row beforehand to have these not kind of driel off into into January yes um okay so you and I will be working on that quick question about that um it sounds like the dog park they weren't specifically concerned about like a decision and a vote but the um cell tower if we're having a virtual meeting is going to drag on to sign I guess or I mean that's a hard time to come down to toown meeting between that and
212the end of the year for me so I just wanted to throw it out there we're having a virtual meeting about cell because we want we don't want it to bleed into January but people do have to come and sign Peter will find a way to get people put a sign yeah or at least we'll have it okay yeah no I just saying that we got to put that in our radar screen though yeah yeah I think could we get that one ahead of time to start to kind of look at for that virtual meeting yeah if possible yeah well I mean the the cell tower should be fairly easy to throw together yeah the the sou Tower is easy and the dog park we're going to the the another part of that we keep
213trying to want to get out is that um you're also going to be conferring Jen was going to talk to Stanton correct and get back to us see exactly we we don't think it's an issue we think there's time but to understand that more precisely yeah so okay I mean that's the whole chicken and egg because you write your decision on the latest documents and we're expecting new documents but for a draft decision right but Mo mostly it's there there's a lot to put together that does not depend on those on those documents at all so um yeah so I'll put it out there January 9th I I may be traveling crial the most important thing is to try to have as actually as few special conditions possible that the things are documented in the
214drawing and not they don't need to be special conditions like because they're already in the drawing so um and most of the things we talked about to today should be I I am confident that we can take we can work through this all right okay so meeting minutes unless someone has anything else I'm just going to as every you guys looking at this um it's part of an economic development bill that was signed by the legislature in November um part of it was a permanent extension act so it kind of goes back a little bit to what we already did but the governor um signed uh within his Economic Development bill that any planning board and Zoning Board decisions that were between uh I believe a two-year time frame between uh I'll go I'm going
215to I'll send out the planning board some information on it that it theoretically added 2 years to the expiration date uh and so for 501 Pawn Street it would have added automatically two years of Eligibility so they didn't even really need that extension that's a permanent state law or temporary state law it's a temporary it's a it's a temporary that's interesting but it was passed in November uh I'm still getting a little bit more information on it but I'll send that out for everyone just to kind of take a look at but did that mean that it didn't matter if we actually approved the extension by the time the state by the time we heard this um yeah pretty much it doesn't really matter if we approve it or not the legislative would have picked
216the legislative extension would have picked it up and carried it into well two years okay I heard something about it but I never I tried to reach out to mapc and I never confirmed so a lot of things happening all right so any issues with the meeting minutes does anyone have any changes I can make a motion to approve the November 14th 2024 minutes as is second going to roll call vote Anna Tes minitz I Katherine Jersy I and Trisha Kendall I all right that a motion to adjourn at 10:24 second one two three we're good all right thank you Mackie