Planning Board: November 14th, 2024

001e e e show me show me e e e good evening everyone and welcome to the ashin planning board meeting of Thursday November 14th reminding everyone that um the meeting is being broadcast and recorded So first on our agenda tonight after the call to order which we'll just consider that is the clerk's report Kate um thank you madam chair we've received one correspondence since the last last planning board meeting um I do think it may be something that has to be put on the agenda for the next meeting that was about uh resident writing in about tree cutting on a Scenic Road unless there's been plenty of information otherwise I think Peter has some information so I can speak to that so today um I think the plany board knows a comment came in or

002an email came in uh also please know that was followed up with a public records request by Mr Steve Morgan uh today um um myself and Becca Solomon our conservation agent um were trying to track down what happened um and it came back um that eversource uh on Tuesday night uh which was a very windy night a uh a piece of a branch uh fell onto a live power line so ever Source was called out um and actually it was a um it was a primary voltage electric wire um and so therefore Tuesday night the windy night ever Source did go out and they did remove the branch that was leaning on the primary electrical wire um Power did have to be shut off through a section of conquered Street just because that was a

003live wire they did finish up their work uh obviously due to the darkness now there was a ashin police officer with their lights on um so furthermore there was a situation it was a safety concern um we followed up with ever Source uh our conservation agent who was also our tree Warden um in Alvaro actually ground truth the location today they concluded that the the tree was actually on private property um and it was not in the road right away um and then further they concluded that it was a safety matter uh that was dealt with correctly uh from all sources and so we did go through it we did follow up on it and uh Mr Morgan's public records request will be followed up with um in in a timely manner um did so

004is someone responding to him or call him or how is that like I we we'll put an email to we'll put an email together this all was a fluid obviously a fluid conversation today uh but I can just kind of tell you tonight that that was the outcome no I'm sure appreciate the followup thank you all right um next on our agenda is public comment I'll let you manage that Peter uh so right now it's a time for public comment um both in the room and on Zoom uh if you have any public comment this would be appropriate time to make your way to the microphone uh and or if you are on Zoom if you have a public comment please raise your hand uh at this current time there is nobody in the room

005with a public comment uh and see none on Zoom com discuss nope it's a comment about about anything tonight but yes yeah but if you but wait a second if if you have a comment about something that we're act that's on our agenda if you've come for then you might want to wait we will have public comment about those agenda items okay okay um thank you so no one else in the room and right now we have nobody else uh no one else has their hand up online all right then we will move on to our next agenda item and that is 100 Chestnut Street the Asher development Peter what are we talking about tonight tonight uh we have Mr Roy McDow who is the developer of 100 Chestnut Street part of the planning board's

006um decision going back to 2022 excuse me um required I believe it was condition number 16 required that the applicant come and propos actually the signage um and so with this um you will see in your packets um that the signage is here um and it's on two sheets of paper um secondly there's an email from Doug Scott Building Commissioner um Doug Scott is a Building Commissioner who as Building Commissioner reviews all sign permits um and it just says that he has reviewed the sign um and I can read of verbatim Doug the P Bo well that was my question um I just say hey Doug I said Doug the P Board tonight will be reviewing the attached signage which is here um of the current project of the Asser which is under construction at

007100 chestn stre as discussed as you well know the Plenty board's special permit in the site plan review decision requires that the pl board to review the signage which will be done this was on the prior meeting's agenda and then it was moved due to due due to a scheduling conflict uh so with that said um Doug on October 24th uh re responds and he says I have reviewed the proposed signage and I have no issues with it period um and so tonight Mr Roy McDow is here um to go over and to ask any questions from the planning board may have on the proposed signage so at this point um Mr Roy McDow do you have anything to add uh indor would like to discuss with the planning board and if you do can

008you please make your way to the microphone I have it here nope I got it cane get to the microphone I'm sorry discuss my oh I'm sorry so repeating about the sign on the corner of Queen Isabella you'll notice we've given you two copies of a sign one has an arrow and the concept of this is of becoming up Chestnut you'll see the sign you'll see the arrow so you'll continue on Chestnut to the next sign which will bring you in the entrance and then there's one other small signage over the front door there's actually a rendering that shows the sign in the corner if you have that I don't I don't think there's a is that the rendering you mean oh yeah that there's some uh those are some just wanted to give I

009wanted to give you a visual sense of what the corner would look like so the whole intention is to drive traffic to the front not on the neighbor side streets and just I also have if you would like we went and looked at some other properties in town just to give a sense of scale and proportionality so I have three other projects that I will give you that the lettering on our sign is actually smaller and the general scope and scale is somewhat less as well so as Peter mentioned we had met with a building inspector we've looked at this with our Architects and we feel it's Tastefully done in scale and scope of what we feel is appropriate for the project I have a question sure um what what what is these um um

010note referring to illumination a prop illumination what what is the illumination uh it's interally lit so at night where you see white would be interiorly lit so there won't be any harsh light from the ground or anything such as that but is the same is this supposed to represent the same size fine I mean this one is kind of great oh no no one's showing it one one one that's dark is showing it at night oh okay but it's never at an angle like that that's just like like supposed to be a perspective is that right how you're Vie yeah I was wondering it's like a oh maybe it's the graphic in the paper that has like a a shadow line I assume it's part of the sign yes correct that's part of the sign

011yes I mean I don't have really any issues with the large sign I have to say I didn't actually noticed the arrow at first but um you know that it was CU it's thin Rel relative to the rest but um but I I don't see it as a um as a major deal I guess can we review this in context of the sign by law I did forget to bring my copy I guess I could probably start my computer and get it but um actually went over that with the building aspect he thought we were okay yeah I don't I don't have I didn't bring my copy of the signage bylaws either get it do you want to um I mean I think we're just sort of in the habit of reviewing in context of

012our bylaws right that's yeah that's fine yeah I think it's 51 [Music] that [Applause] right another question is is there any um propos change on the vegetation I mean you have a Treck shown in the rendering Some Trees close by that's not going to change it's going to remain as we're probably going to put more planting than you see we just did that as a quick scale there's quite a bit more planting than that are you going to put it on screen Peter di as he doing this um my quick question is how is this sign related to all the commercial space signage um we we'd be coming back for that because we have bands on the building they're about this wide would the scale be complimentary to this sign or do you have a

013packet started for the it would be much smaller I mean the sign that you see over our front door it says the Asher I think it's about 12 in high so probably something of that magnitude yeah there's a there's a white band that goes around the building these are dimensional standards right here um I will state that this falls into Wildwood use mixed wild use uh zoning District um it's been a while since I looked at the sign bylaw per se uh but the zoning the zoning Comm The Building Commissioner who reviews all signs did review this and has sees no issue um and I believe having this falling would fall well under the the maximum is there anything under Wildwood that ref I think the I think under Wildwood it just refers back to

014the signed bylaw but the signed bylaw doesn't necessarily spell out anything about like it doesn't really fit any of these uh commercial designations right so the wild I don't believe there's anything in Wildwood that actually shows a sign um we couldn't find anything yeah um this is the only project that's been you that's ever been built within the Wildwood District uh within the Wildwood bylaws I concur that we have to use aign bylaws of our best ability this is a tricky one because this is talks about the whole front edge and now you have multiple signage that will happen at the end of the day to look at this independently so not sure if this is going to be helpful well actually we have two streets we have one sign's on one street the other

015sign's on the other Street and one sign has about 550 ft of French the other's got 400 I think the one the commercial side yeah it will way over furnit for a requirement let's give Kate a minute here to just kind of going through no we don't have a ton of a ton of rules about it but we do try to make sure that we're yeah and there's nothing on this obviously there's nothing on this sign that's moving or it doesn't change lights it and the light is the light no no no the light is very dim we want it to be tasteful right and that's the reason why we went with the muted colors it's just sort of There It Is Well Done I agree and the proportion is is very elegant and um

016much better than others so I think I I didn't see any issue with it thank you all right I was just going to comment the the name Asher is a ancient Hebrew name I know that from Genesis um so what does it mean it means happiness and blessing exactly right I think it's the eth son of very good not too many people know that I tend to go to synagogue once in a while is that um is that a person's name yes Asher um the tribe of Asher so probably the most Jewish apartment name you can imagine in Ashland well my my wife thought it up as long as you're aware of the association with the I'm very aware that's one of the reason we chose Genesis and testament and the significance of what that

017would have um it just happens to tie into Ashland as well yeah indeed so a very happy name right I'm glad you knew that I'm sure my Rabbi would be proud got here just in time all right so if there's no other discussion we should probably we just make it formal take a vote um I make a motion that we approve the submitted sign for the Asher development that's second and a roll call vote Anna teski I Marcel I Katherine Jers I and Trisha Kendall I so thank you very much and thanks for coming back after our long meeting last time good night all right so next on our agenda is 501 Pawn Street and only because I'm a director butter I'll step out and let you guys talk about that I forget that uh

018so next up is 501 Pawn Street uh tonight we have Matthew Stevens um representing application um at our last meeting we did discuss it with their attorney Mark hablak but I uh as a review um excuse me on December 8th 2022 the Ashen pling board approved the special permit in sight plan approval um within that decision um we do um we did have a two-year limitation on that permit and so on October 9th we did receive an email from Mark kblock attorney of the project uh requesting a 2year uh extension to that special permit uh we did discuss that with uh attorney cobac and then we did ask to move uh the discussion to tonight uh I do want to note that on November 12th which would have been Tuesday um we did receive a

019email which was forwarded out to the plany board in it is um further backup material that was submitted by tras development in this instance tras uh is still the developer in the owner of the site and the permit um with that said I will uh does the board have any questions for myself nope okay um I would like to ask ma Matthew Stevens Matthew I am going to unmute uh while will uh make you a co-host so you can now unmute yourself um and Mr Stevens can you please indoor uh this would be your opportunity to opportunity to discuss with the pl board any new outcomes Andor opinions that you would like to share yeah certainly so good to see you all again it's been a little bit um Matt Stevens with trast development um

020I can certainly kind of give a an overview for everybody who doesn't have a letter in front of them of what's happened with the project to date um and then I'm here today to just uh request for that 2-year extension uh for this the special permit and then obviously answer any questions anyone may have um about the project as it stands currently um so would you like me to give an overview of that letter or is that probably not necessary at this point I think for the public I think it'd be great if you uh gave a quick overview sure sure so um as Peter mentioned we had the special permit granted and the site plan review um approved that was December 2022 since then um after we closed on the property with the firey

021owner um we did do some site work mostly site preparation removing the existing loan piles um that were stored previously on the site by faford when they were using the site as um you know Loom storage and um sifting facility so removed all that secured the site um and then worked with mass do in connection with our ongoing work um on pwn Street to uh put in all the granite curbing insecure entrances aprons asphalt that sort of thing to the site um and then we also this summer uh when we had the advantage of it being fairly dry did the off-site sewer work um the name of that street is is escaping me right now but the offside sewart work that was a condition um of this permit that was previously left um uncompleted by

022the prior owner of the parcel of land that was completed this summer um and that was done with uh collaboration with obviously ashon DPW and then the town engineer as well um so that's what's been completed um as far as actual items on site we did previously have uh the property under agreement with a buyer um somebody who's owns and operates an apartment building in Ashland um they actually own Ashland Woods the project we had previously developed um over on West Union Street they were going to buy the permits for us from us and develop the property um they had it under contract for a little over a year they were going through uh full design development with ion who was the project architect um and unfortunately just given this current state of u The

023Lending environment for projects of this scale and construction costs uh they were not able to continue with the project so they have backed out um so now we have the project back um in our possession fully they were never able to close on it um so we're here now um requesting this extension so that we can sort of pick back up where the previous potential buyer left off um and have the time that we need to secure financing uh do our own design development within the existing parameters of the project design um and then eventually get to a point where we could uh secure financing and construct the project uh just one question um just I'm deducting from what you're saying that that you are uh the tras is planning on developing the project or

024are you asking the extension because you're going to be looking to sell the the permit to somebody else at this moment we are proceeding as if we are going to develop it um and you know an opportunity may present itself in the future it's not a great time for other developers to be looking to buy permits at the moment just given the lending environment um so we're proceeding as if it is us um and would need this time to sort of start over I guess um my only question I don't know if it's to Matt or Peter um were there trees cleared on the site in preparation for this construction um can do we have the power to suggest that they plant trees in the weight time because now it's two years and if they

025did per this letter looks like they did clear some trees um can we enforce that we get them to plant trees so that if it was cleared at least that can happen the wait time yeah I think you know we can obviously discuss that I think you know there was some there was site work you know I I I I will say that when trash development did take the site on from faford there was a lot of work to be done right faffer did use that entire site for a um I would say a storage area of gravel um so there was a lot of trucks that you know gravel that was removed there was vegetation on that pile um and I there was some trees that were taken down so I think it would

026be appropriate to talk and to to request that trees obviously be planted that will not impact the future construction because I would not want to ask a developer to plant trees that would impact the future construction here um I know going back into that hearing thinking back you know two years ago there was deep discussions about that row of Evergreens that a but it those are still intact those are still healthy um and those are still there um I will say that um but on that discussion there was also an extension of that row of trees for the neighbors for privacy of the neighbors that was a commitment of this project right that has not been done not to this date yes yeah and there was there was right I I shortly after the project

027was approved and the kind of fence went up around it there were those entries that there were a couple trees taken out I I think and that kind of made a hole between the neighborhood and the empty property that's cor y um and so for a while there was like a construction C fence there I'm not sure but it's not a pretty thing to look at for two years and so I think um I think that hole at least um and it could be other trees as well but like Peter said it's kind of hard to I remember we received an email from on a b complaining of the trees that had been removed and he was responded to was part of the process of course it has to be prepared yeah but neighbors were

028uncomfortable about that and two years later probably the hole is there but no project so okay yeah Matt do you have any uh do you have any response to that inquiry yeah so the reason why trees weren't planted um in that sort of that open area right behind at the back left corner of the project is that's where um if I remember Inc correctly the sewer connection is going in so we were reluctant to plant anything that could develop a significant root system in size knowing that we would have to eventually take it out to then do all of the utility work there um so that's why that area had remained open um and the burm that we had proposed and that was approved the burm with the additional large arities that will be planted

029on top of it had not been put in to that area um to this day I mean that sounds like something that um because I know last time I think people were comfortable with a year extension which I personally kind of still am because that doesn't mean they can't come back we don't have something in our bylaws prohibiting that um and then certainly maybe making that progress shows a lot of progress right of like that sewer work could be done sooner um in the year and then make that part of the project hold just to clarify the sewer work was already completed um he just said that they need sewer connections and that's why there I'm sorry I was talking about the yes I understand miss miss yeah I don't know I I was in

030the same boat last time around I I think putting a SE connection for a project that's not being built in the in the foreseeable future immediately doesn't make practical sense to me that's that's civil work that is engage with a bunch of other coordinating contractors that have to do with with a project of these size um I I I think uh given the fact that the project has uh made good on the commitment to f the sewer station whatever that condition was uh I I I think it's it that shows some Merit that that they're moving forward uh I I I would like to see if if it's possible uh some some um or or confirm if the neighbors have complain of some other trees maybe not in the exact location where the sewer connection

031is going to take place that makes logical sense but if there's any other area I I would like make sure to make sure that for the next two years that then the neighbors are comfortable with with the approach and if if Trask is a is amenable to doing that maybe you have to plant a couple of trees I don't think that would be a a big burden if if we can request that I I don't see why not I think you know I think you know that question really is for tras and to make sure that we can obviously come to that agreement um to obviously make sure that you know pleas trees are planted in that back corner um for a way for the community in the rear obviously to feel like they um

032like they're not they don't have a geap they don't have a hole exposed they're exposed thank you they're exposed for two additional years when you know two additional years those trees can grow a lot you know and they can kind of get going um and obviously that would just move that growing process on in maturity along for those for that vation um yeah and if it's something that uh I mean I don't know if if if it's something that the trees would have to be taken back up again I guess you know which in certain kind of trees you could is fine you get them like Arbor vities right they they come in they go down another option might be to put in a a wooden fence or something along that I'm not sure if

033that would be acceptable but something that last time a fence went in it was just kind of kind of this ugly construction fence it was it was a construction fence with a green mesh yeah op OPAC opaque green mat yeah which is not a two-year solution correct right but I didn't know if versus trees which would be small and not provide really privacy or could it be a wooden fence or something for that that length where the hole is I'm just throwing it out there as another potential idea to provide that kind of buffer buffer enclosure right of the neighborhood um what does anyone else think about that you know yeah I think uh I think we should leave it up to them to make a strategic call um if they are going ahead with

034the assumption that this design is going to progress at some point if they want to choose a strategic location because they did bring down some trees um so I think give them that room to make that call and choose that location where it actually makes sense not sure how many trees were brought down but at least to make that strategic call of like can we make that one is to one and have back up there and and bottom line I I I think what I was trying to say is that I I we all want this project to to happen yeah and it's good for Ash it's it was a great project that we worked a lot on um and so I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm positive about giving them the extension myself uh if

035if if we can make sure that the neighbors have not been impacted by this delay um that's all so we're not just negotiating a Tit for Tat anything it's just a concern for the Neighbors because they have been patient and hopefully that's understandable and and what is on the rest of the site right now I I was down there recently but I I didn't note like um we're this is very dry weather we're not having any dust there's enough there's enough to hold there I haven't there there's been no dust concerns it's extremely dry weather um you know it's a vacant site however yes they have worked with DOT for the roads for the road requirements um but yeah it's a it's a fairly fow vacant site but it's not causing any uh we haven't

036obviously had problems with if there's any problems with dust or storn water runoff or anything like that it seemed when I was there it seemed very you know kind of buttoned up it was button it's always been buttoned up um when when they first started moving dirt around um the Conservation Commission the conservation Agent P was out there um in Communications with trft development um but that has S I think all those small details have been worked out you know I would say for better a better part of a year now a year and a half um so so to my knowledge yeah there has not been any real intricate issues with the site it's just a kind of a it's a quiet vacant site so then it would be a and you guys correct

037me if this isn't what you're thinking a a twoyear a one or twoyear extension I hear Kate saying one marcelos maybe leaning two but both contingent on doing something with that corner in order to not leave it open for potentially two years is that is it correct can I reach out to Matt Matt do you have any do you do you want to do you want to do you want to weigh in here representing trass development regarding um added vegetation in that back corner either vegetation indor wooden Stockade Fence yeah um just my sort of gut check reaction to it is I think a wooden stock aade fence would make a quicker and potentially prettier long-term solution for whether it be one or two years because we can put it in now and it's going

038to look good immediately as opposed to us being um kind of limited on what we can get for nursery stock of our bites and things right now and then who knows how well they'll do being planted in November um so I mean I'm amenable to either um and I can understand it's it's now it's a big gaping opening where there was once vegetation so I can understand the neighborhood concerns about that so I'm amendable to to either option I think personally would probably prefer The Stockade Fence because that can be done quickly and and have real privacy quickly okay thank you Matt is there any um is there any public comment on this project I don't know if anyone there is one hand up yep I'm going to call on uh Brian McCarthy Brian McCarthy

039uh on the zoom meeting I'm going to ask you to unmute oh I'm sorry uh Mr Mr Brian McCarthy I believe you um may have sorry inadvertent inadvertent hand okay sorry just wanted to make sure I was covered all bases thank you Brian all right so where are from the board where are we versus one versus two first of all I'm F doing two personally um I would like to stick with one because we're not prohibiting coming back and I and I feel like that we that's if they need to come back that's insisting they do we're not just not knowing what's going on and not being able to communicate because I'm glad that you remembered um the neighbors but I also remember that the um the abutter at the uh assisted living like that's

040probably because a lot of people are around there a lot but I they did ask about that so I I think that's another reason to keep it more at the Forefront they they asked about what did you um just what's going on because sometime some of them I mean I think Peter's called like they're older and they they worked in construction they're interested I'm not saying they had yeah um complaints but my point is this way it's if something isn't moving in a year we will have a definite record of coming back instead of we're not sure what's happening DEA what is your uh feeling on the one versus two given the landscape hopefully one will be advantageous to the team um but I'm not opposed to sticking with one as Kate said so that

041it comes back um and if required we could always renew it so okay and I'm pretty flexible on that so um and what is the thought about the vegetation versus the fence the fence makes sense I mean vegetation right now especially in the winter coming in makes no sense at all okay it will take a lot longer probably a full year before it can be done so I think Matt is correct that would be a more immediate solution okay so we're looking at like you agre I mean if we putting the timeline a one year I think I'm okay with the fence um if it was a two-year I would have Revisited that but okay so based on that discussion does someone have a motion they want to put forth I make a motion that

042the 501 Pond project be given a one-year extension and with trass development um doing some mitigation for the opening caused by the tree removal in the corner yeah technical question Peter um yeah but what if um I wanted to make a motion for a two-year extension can we do two motions or not or or are we agreeing I mean if the two of you feel ASCAP then I will just not say anything and my question also adding to that is is it in up priew to stop that make it one year versus two years is there anything that's no it's really a discussion between us and the applicant right I think going back and forth it's it's just it's a it's a it's a discussion between us to obviously they're requesting two um we say

043one you know I think we could have the ability to say here's two but we're going to make it a uh we're going to make it a condition that you're going to come back to us in a year and give us a full update on what's going on right I think that's also part of the POS possibility that we could discuss right that we want a quarterly update on the situation there because yes um you know we don't know what's we haven't known for two years what's going on except here and there so I think that is could be kind of discussed with the applicant and I think that's just one of these conversations that have to happen um and I think it's a was a great discussion about you know having some some screenage

044some some screenage developed such as a wood fence and I concur with Marcelo and Matt that a wood fence could be installed within two weeks right when it would be very difficult to get a green Arbor Vite you know Arbor vies planted in November it's 32 de out tonight it's cold um that we're at the end of the planting seon with the the the planting season has ended so I think that was a right call but it really is a discussion between between us but I just wanted to add one more thought because the the um the way I'm I'm thinking about it uh I really want the project to to happen uh because Ashen would benefit from it um and and and the neighbors would benefit from having something there instead of an empty

045lot or a stockpile of material um but uh the the the environment the economic environment of of of the last year or two years have been difficult for for for people need lending to to to make things happen so I I I'm thinking that they they've worked on the sewer connection correction that they were uh required to they they buttoned up the site and they are agreeing to close the gap to make sure that the neighbors don't have to see that that opening um I I I would like to remove burdens from them to try to get this project to happen and having to worry about this other thing I mean we we could could request it for sure uh but hopefully the the economic uh uh activity will will all the interest rates will

046will get in a better place in the next year who knows nobody knows U so so would updates say even like every 6 months I mean because even a year is I mean even over the past two years every once in a while we would hear something about that was happening but it wasn't in wasn't like someone coming to tell us right um so would that um would even more frequently help us not be in this no man's land kind of um about knowledge versus waiting a year and seeing um well I mean they're not mutually exclusive like a year extension can still ask for updates um right so right I I just have a question for Matt the applicant Matt would you have a would would you want to weigh in you know obviously

047trash development are you um you know in your you know are are you what are your thoughts on coming you know I would say every six months back to the planning board and giving everybody an update um you know official update on on the status of the project I would be more than happy to do that okay thank you Matt no problem if he can enforce that then I'm good with a two-year extension as [Music] well okay well there's a motion on the floor it has not been seconded so if and if there is no second we will look for another motion to be put on the floor okay how do you feel about the are you still um I think place I think there's good conversations but I am because I I've looked a

048lot and and some towns give six months one you're done and I feel like we're we're not um I I think they have done some work but it's going to keep it farther at the front if we ask for the year and give and say that we're serious about it it it's not going to impair the project moving forward by giving one year and it feels like it's making it serious about what the planning board does to me what would be unserious about a two extension um I I feel like that's too much I mean so many things change you know that will be four years that's in thew um well the first two years is in the if I could comment on the timeline just briefly and nobody wants to build this more than

049we do it just does not pencil right now it's when we started permitting the project we could have gotten the financing we needed to build this the $30 million construction loan we would have been fine but in the time sense it no longer makes Financial sense and the only thing that's going to make this make Financial sense is a change in the lending environment and I would love to think that that's going to happen in six months which would work with a one-year timeline but if the past two years have taught us anything it's that's probably not going to happen we're going to have to wait a little longer and we could do a one-year extension but we'll be back here next November talking about this again um the two years gets us the time

050not to just you know have this thing sitting in our office as something we'll do one day but to check every day out interest rates and talk to our mortgage mortgage brokers and all of them to hopefully one day have a time when this can financially work for us um or for anyone frankly in in our position um in the current lending environment so it's it's I understand the desire to put pressure on us but unfortunately the external factors that are delaying this is not just us wanting to delay it it's the fact that it's not financeable at the moment given the current lending environment and I don't have control over that and I'd love to think that would change in a year but I'm not too optimistic that 12 months is going to change

051a lot and having the two years for us would give us the opportunity to jump when we have the ability to jump on this project and put the ball in motion and do all the background work that we're going to need to do before we can even start talking about construction financing and closing on a loan with a bank and taking on additional debt on the site on top of what we already have um plus the money we've already spent on the offsite sewer and the site work um so I understand the desire for pressure um but I I want you to understand that it's not just us that's delaying this it's it's everything that's that's holding this project up um I I think I think we get that I I don't I I don't

052I don't really understand the difference from your perspective about one or two years except just not having to come back in a year it's not like there was any more work that needed to be done or or anything like that for us maybe it's just you can make a comment um if if you have something to help us better understand that that would be appreciated um so um so I guess that's what I'm trying to understand that you know because things do change over over time right um so I'm I'm I don't I'm not sure I still understand the difference from your perspective about one or two years except that we don't have to worry about that for two years we can just you know kind of work on something else um versus maybe the

053one year puts it a little bit more in the Forefront I I don't know I would I would like to understand it better I would I would love to have some point yet in your what's that I don't know if you're at that point yet in your hearing um yeah if if there are public comments I will take them from anywhere the room or on screen we would appreciate some other points of view sure you want sorry nope uh just Yolanda I'm just gonna make sure your the microphone's live okay I think it is great uh Yolanda greeves 127 Prospect Street uh to just be I am on the select board but I'm here as a resident I'm not here representing any other Committee just myself um you know listening to this conversation and uh

054I understand the sense of okay if we only do it for a year then they'll have to come back but and even though that doesn't seem like a big ask I think for an organization like tras who does a lot of development uh we know them here in town they've done a lot of good projects and I think if you're putting in that they need to come back every six months anyway I think that two years gives them the flexibility as Matt said to sort of do the process and if something happen sooner they can get moving sooner if they can't then they have those two years but if you're asking them to come back any six every six months anyway just to give an update I mean I don't know that it has to

055be in person I think it can be an email saying hey this is where we're at based on what's going on with financing and we all know the next 6 to 12 months are going to be very uncertain with the change of leadership at the federal level how that's going to affect everybody so I think we have a developer here who has been very proactive and works with us here in town has done some good projects I think if you give it let it be two years but coming back you know giving an update every six months I think that would be to his benefit and to the town's benefit thank you thank you right any other comment on that okay well then is there a second to Kate's motion sorry Kate all right then

056if not then I'll be looking for a different motion from the floor okay so I'll I'll make a motion to um approve the two-year extension for the special permit and site plan review of 501 Pawn Street with a condition of with the condition of having a um uh an update uh report every six months uh starting today in the fense sorry and the installation of of a wooden stockade fence on on the area that's uh that's projected to have future planting to close up the the visual relationship with the neighbors second that all right and a roll call vote de Marcel I Katherine Jers I and Trisha Kendall ey um and we would appreciate it if you make that fence kind of nice yeah we'll just do like a cedar Stockade decorative caps right that

057worked us thank you all right thank you Matt I'll be in touch and uh from the planning board side of things I will draft up a memo um and we'll have it at the next meeting sounds good make it official we have to sign that right I don't have it with us right now but I'll I'll sign it and I'll we we I'll draft it and then I'll have it at the next meeting okay great thank you thank you okay so Anna is back with us so next on our agenda is a new public hearing and I will have Peter introduce that yes thank you so much so the next public hearing is a is a fun project uh that the tan of ashen's been working on for uh a couple years now and so

058now it's com it's coming to fruition so to before I kind of give a preamble and and and uh hand it off to the Ashland uh dog park committee I'm going to read the public hearing into the record the Ashen plany board will hold a public hearing on Thursday February excuse me not February November 14th 2024 at 7:15 p.m. in the second floor heing room ashon Town Hall 101 Main Street Ash Mass 01721 this as public hearing can we join via Zoom conference uh please the attached plenty board agenda for this link the Plenty board uh will hear the petition of the town of ashon requesting site plan review and design review per chapter 48 section 6 of the Ashen zoning act in chapter 2 8 excuse me 282 9.6 design review plans and 9.4

059site plan review of the astion bylaws the applicant is proposing to develop a dog park the dog park will be divided into two areas um depend depending on the dog type Andor size a 16,000 ft large dog area will be included in a 2,000 ft dog area for small dogs both areas will be Pro uh excuse me properly divided with chain link fence chain link fence will be surrounded by two areas um with an appropriate entrance site plantings will be installed according to the proposed Landscaping plan the site will include a 20 car par uh 20 car paved parking area in an infiltration Basin for storm water control the area will be developed excuse me the total area will develop excuse me the total area of development will be 1.47 acres and will provide the

060community of Ashland an additional recreational space for residents and their pets the property in question is located at zero MBTA access excuse me zero um Memorial Drive um that is a mistake uh assessors map 13 lot uh 138 and is located in the rail Transit District uh part which to be heard uh should submit comments to the Ashen planning board ahead of time into or appear in public please note that within your packet we did receive one email um which is provided too um with that said before I hand it over um the town of Ashland as I said has been working on this and we have um first and foremost um we have yolan Graves here from the dog park committee um also we have Cara Terell of the dog park committee um Town

061assistant Town manager Jem ball is also on the call and she will help represent this application as well as Michael rner Michael rner uh has been working with the town to design the proposed dog park Michael and his team will be draw walking us through the proposed site plan which is in front of all planning board members and I will be happy to share that online IND allow Michael to share his screen to allow that dog park for a presentation with that said would anybody from the ashon dog park like to step forward and add anything to the introduction of this project okay assistant Town manager Jen ball would you like to add anything to this project before I ask Michael to introduce this project and go and uh review the site plan uh hey

062Peter I'm sorry I couldn't unmute can you hear me now yep I got you I made you a co-host you're all set right thanks um so thank you for taking the time to hear this um this project has been going on for a number of years um we've had some fits and starts with our uh designer and so we have um worked with the the the community group that has been working on it for and Yolanda can probably speak to it a bit more in the room in care as well for a number of years um to bring this to fruition Michael rner has put together a a plan that really takes into consideration the site um and all of its um sort of uh topography and so I can turn it over to him

063to sort of explain um all the features and go through the plans thank you Jen uh Michael I am making you a co-host which also gives you you the ability to share your screen good evening can you all hear me uh yep we can hear you loud and clear wonderful thank you good evening um everybody my name is Michael Radner with Radner Design Associates a three Alli Drive in Dam and I I do have a brief slide deck I'll take you through which is U not all of the sheets that are in your plan um but I kind of picked out the most significant ones and a few pictures and examples of um what we think the dog park is going to look like so uh we'll get going with that and um the site

064I think that a lot of people are aware of this let me see if I can zoom a little bit make it a little bit bigger for you um is north of the Middle School site on Memorial Drive you can see the Dunkin Donuts here along uh uh 135 is just off the screen to the right um and this is uh the site uh right here and um this is we started on this last winter that's how long we've been working on this so I took some pictures last winter and this is the condition with the uh Middle School fields on your right and the site is on the left and you could see sort of various types of vegetation and here you can see that there's um thankfully the snow has help us helps

065us show the Topography of the site um a little bit you can see some of these rolling conditions in here here we have some Eastern White Pine and then back in the site is kind of like uh a lot of um Pine and and um oak trees and and it's a wooded site um there's some areas that have you know sort of 8 to 12 inch caliper trees and a little bit further in there's some larger caliper trees you can see uh the topographic conditions in there and I I only show this uh because as we uh as the town uh prepares for uh there or we're in the process of a Grant application with the Stanton Foundation uh who funds A large majority of the of the construction and the design of this project

066and um the grading of the site is a significant um factor in how we in in the cost of the site and how we design the site plan and so forth so I'll get to that momentarily this is a a picture of there's a uh existing uh oil line easement that runs through the site um Jen could talk about this more but basically it's an abandoned um oil line and um I don't think I'm going out on a Lim gen by saying that that Shell Oil is is in the process of releasing the um uh the rights to this so that we can um work in the site that is correct yeah um this is uh our topographic survey of the site and basically the area that we're talking about is inside this buildable area

067in here which is really defined by the existing uh wet lands that kind of surround the site on three out of four sides and um we we have been to the Conservation Commission we had one hearing there which we've believe we've answered uh many if not all of their questions um we were just waiting from a a a file number from the D before they could close that hearing but they have reviewed this they reviewed the uh storm water on this um and provided their comments so um and you can see the topographic lines in here which indicates you know the the sort of ups and downs of the site and um as I was saying as we go through the process of getting our funding from the Stanton Foundation one of the things that

068they um require or like to see and it's just good design is that we have a basically flat site so that um when there's a lot of paw traffic if you will over the site that um we minimize erosion it's um better just for the um environment and for the dogs to to basically run on a flat site um more easy to maintain etc etc so this is a nice little color graphic that we put together that shows um Memorial Drive down here the vehicular entrance to the site parking for 20 cars and this is a a paved parking lot we do have we will have pedestrian access to the site there is a sidewalk on the south side of Memorial Drive that runs the length of Memorial Drive so there will be a new

069crosswalk in this location here um with a a pedestrian activated um signal so that when you go to that location you press the button and the lights Flash and you can cross um a sidewalk along this edge of the parking lot and then I'm just going to zoom in a little bit here um this is the large dog park on the left and that's about 16,000 square feet I want to say it's maybe 150 ft long on the from end to end um and then the small dog park is 2,000 square ft the the whole large dog small dog thing is little bit of a term of art it's not necessarily determined by the size of the dog but more of their personality if you will um active dogs kind of like tend to go

070in the larger space and and little shy dogs like mine would would like to stay separate from those big dogs um and have a little more more quiet experience so um then we have a uh storm water infiltration area here we have some landscape buffering along the front of the site and then along the uh West and North sides of the site um this is a planting strip that was um talked about with the conservation commission which where they had a concern of basically dog waste being in this area and providing some protection to the wetlands uh uh around this area and and it's we're calling it phyto remediation um basically it's a planting strip that will help um interrupt and absorb some of the dog uh urine and dog waste before it gets into

071the wetlands um you have an erosion control plan in your packet I can certainly uh answer questions there we have a construction entrance here we also had I don't know that Peter mentioned we have Nick KC also on the call is a civil engineer from Highpoint engineering who helped us um put together the engineering plan for this and the storm water report as well so here's a little more of a a technical document which has a a materials plan which just describes the materials and I do want to talk about the fact that this area here is um the surface of this is going to be what we call Rice Stone it's kind of like PE Stone it's almost the same thing um it's going to be surrounded by a 4 foot high uh black

072chain link fence to contain the dogs in this area so what we have here is this this area here sort of along the parking lot is a cleared and graded basically flat area inside the fence line and then we are leaving natural the back part um over here there are some larger trees back here that we'd like to save it's already relatively flat here so that we think we can take out some of the underbrush and the smaller trees here and put a layer of wood chips down here and still have a successful uh surface and just to show you what that would look like this is um uh we also did the Framingham dog park if you've been over there this is what the rice Stone looks like it's a it's a very finely

073grad uh Stone it's very it's rounded and it tends to be soft on the paws of the dogs um and it you can see that the stone is contained it's set slightly below the level of the um concrete um walkway and we have a um we'll call it like a TX decking on its side kind of area here that contains the stone and keeps everything in place so that's kind of the the look and the feel of what you're going to see out there um there's grading plan in here you can see that the Contours here indicate a very flatten surface and then everything is pitching basically from east to west even the parking lot uh is U um uh surface drains uh all and a curbless parking lot here and the water flows uh

074into a series of basins that would fill up in a big storm over overflow into a structure and then um exit the site at this point over here and I'm I'll we have Nick on the call also and I'll get to him in a moment um and he can talk about the storm water design uh there is a landscaping plan in the packet um as I mentioned we have a series of larger plantings along the front of the site um this meets your bylaw in terms of providing landscape between the parking lot and the street um some uh eastern white pines here to kind of screen the storm storm water facility um and then you could see our phyto remediation plantings along the back edge of the site um in this location and then some

075details here you can see um this little section of what that Rice Stone area would look like so that the stone is contained within the dog park this is our phyto remediation planting with a little bit of a burm um there and you could see the the fence and the composite TRX board here and then just some other um pictures that will have some seating these are the you've seen these doggy doggy po or doggy pot I don't know how they're pronounced uh the trash receptacles for um that will have the waste bags in there and these are going to be several of these around the site um and then a water bottle filler um two of them actually within the second site it's a condition of the grant that we have water uh available

076at the site um here is the utility and drainage plan and I I'll just let nick uh I see Nick is here if Peter can you let him unmute yeah nick uh you're a co-host so please feel free to unmute yourself hi everyone Nick cond from High Point engineering we were the civils um on this project so to um get into some things Mike was talking about um so the drainage for the parking lot flows from plan east to west and there won't be a curb on that end of the parking lot so it'll kind of flow Overland into that sediment for Bay what happens that'll fill up the sediment will settle and then it'll spill over into the infiltration Basin and the infiltration Basin was sized for 100e storm um and it provides about

077um a little over a foot of freeboard and in a 100-year storm event there is very little discharge um to the surrounding Wetlands um via that that outlet control structure the remaining the remainder of the site is that Rice Stone surface and also past the r Stone surface it's kind of left as a natural wooded area so there's very uh little runoff that that will be generated um in those areas so the the site does comply with the storm water standards um and yeah that's that's about it for um drainage design goes so there are some bubblers on site and so we'll have to tap into a water main on the opposite side of Memorial Drive and that'll be a 1 inch one inch line we'll be providing a um water meter back flow enclosure

078right at the entrance you can see it labeled there thanks Mike and yeah that was that was about it for hypo one scope for this project any additional questions on drainage I can get into it more technically thanks Nick um that concludes the presentation um hold off just a minute um so I just wanted to um I just wanted to note um it's been a few years but Michael and I have worked on a project or two together it was quite a few years ago now I don't know if if you it's been I I didn't know that you did that you did dog park so it's a it's good good to see you again um so just one question that that I had first that this is also um these are labor planning board

079and Conservation Commission has it been through the Conservation Commission or is it doing simultaneously so simultaneously yes um they did file with both of us just way the schedules worked out they have already met with conservation okay and so this is are the plans we're seeing approved by conservation or in process or they're in the process right now uh as noted they don't have a a d a DPE file has not been issued so they did not close the hearing yet but um but yes this project was presented to the Conservation Commission okay great and and I'll I I'll add that we there were no uh issues I mean I think we we answered all of their questions in that hearing so we we didn't we walked away we didn't have anything outstanding unless something

080comes up between now and the next public hearing so what was the document you were mentioning Peter that that you needed a d excuse me a d file number oh okay that was one of the elements that you they the Conservation Commission needs to close a public hearing so I think Mike in Michael in his presentation noted that they're waiting for a d file number okay um and then they'll most likely move forward with limited with limited um concern from the Conservation Commission but um myself Becca Solomon um with you know we've been meeting with Jen we had a tech review meeting on this um with the DPW so we've all you know it's a town project we've all kind of you know kind of it's gone through the the normal process that any project

081would um regarding vetting okay great thank you Marcelo yeah I mean this not not much to to nothing really to object about this project but uh just one question maybe for the civil engineer at I I understand how the the drainage of the parking lot drains into this kind of sediment filtration area and then into catch basing uh typically on on every project I remember that that that we approve um private projects parking lots we we always ask to have um areas of of planting that that that filter that sediment or or gas spillages or salt sand um I don't see any any any plantings there is is is that something that that that is possible or has been contemplated um maybe the engineer can so so I I'll I'll take a first shot at

082this thank you for the question um so the the area if I go to the planting plan uh what we're what we're proposing right now is a grass filter strip is that first filter before the water gets in into this sediment 4bay and then within the footprint of the 4bay and the infiltration Basin is a native uh seed mix which is going to have a mix of of grasses to to uh filter the water and absorb the water and that that seed mix is um a combination of drought tolerant and and wet um tolerant um species no I I think I get it it's just that there's no no planting shown there and and we typically ask all private projects to I mean it comes time and again I I don't have any specific complaint

083but this is going to be kind of experience as a like a like a ditch isn't it that you it's not nothing else than so you're talking about having plants like within the in water well usually I don't know if I don't remember the ter but the the the design Review Committee always comes up with that recommendation for every parking lot that where that this curb L just like this one but for the water not to just go into a ditch and just leave the sediment there but just have some plants that little plants that I guess usually are used for for that purpose of filtering the water before it goes into the catch bacing so I I don't know if that was contemplated at all yes so is I guess so the question is

084is the catch Basin just like I guess how does that function talking yeah I'm sorry are we talking about this this area here as a yeah filter before it goes into the bbay OR you suggesting that that that's what I'm referring to because I think that's that's how we have requested a lot of projects to do okay okay well we can we can certainly um look at extending we do have some plantings here and you can see this these are um tall grasses and perennials and TR um that are extended into part of that that we could look at extending it along the whole length of that yeah so does that from your from your standpoint Michael does that make sense of the water draining off the parking lot going through like a filtering kind

085of I don't want to say burm but a filtering strip of plants before it goes into the holding area I think I think that's what yeah I think that's I think what we don't want to have is uh Nick's Nick will correct me but we don't want to have we don't want to have a burm there we want to have allow the water to flow off the pavement and directly into that or Bay so we just have to make sure that the way that it's graded is that we don't have like a buildup of thatch there that's going to impound the water at this western edge of the parking lot right so that we're not impeding the water from getting where it wants to go it's just helping to filter it before it gets there

086so I have a question Rel that so that that entire Basin is because we paved a parking lot like is there other things I think that's what it looks like I mean is there other like per there's peral Paving like is it if you if we did other you know compacted stone and you weren't Paving it would we have to do all that cuz I like it's a wooded area right and I mean the dog Park's Great love the start out so people aren't um thinking I'm against the dog park but I like this is the kind of one time to take a forest and make a dog park and try to make it to the best of our ability so I I don't I don't know that that's like the best design a paved

087parking my question was related to katees which is does the Grand application require a paved parking lot uh the grant the grant making Authority does not require a paved parking lot we the discussion that we've had with um people from DPW and Engineering are that they felt that a gra we did talk about a gravel parking lot and they thought that it was not maintainable in the long run they thought that this would the paving would be a a much more stable um long-term solution rather than having to come back you know every year every other year and repair ruts and so forth because I think there's going to be a lot of uh turning movements in here as people back in and out um so but but we did discuss it and and you

088know the town DPW and the people that are going to maintain the site had thought that that asphalt paving was the best solution so I I mean I have some comments I guess that have nothing to do with the presentation um and I really appreciate the presentation I think that anytime a client comes to a team this is exactly the kind of presentation that is expected so thank you so much I think it's great um I think my my comments are more for the planning board and kind of my reaction is as a dog owner and a lover of taking my dog outside um which is that when I travel to a city I find that City dwellers are looking for natural space like you go to New York people want to go to Central

089Park and avoid parking lots and paved spaces and they want shade for their dog especially in the summer I can tell you if someone who has walked a dog in Ashland State Park in the middle of the summer um in the heat you want to be in the shade my dog actually could make it all the way around during heat and certainly would not enjoy parking lot in any way uh many dogs are not comfortable in parking lots on their paws so I can tell you for me living in Ashland seeing a project being proposed in a wooded area I don't feel comfortable with that as a dog owner um and there's so many parks in the area whether it's in Framingham Sherburn um that I take my dog to that have gravel parking lots

090where I would much rather walk my dog than what looks to me like a playground for kids rather than dogs so I very much appreciate the project and I think there's a lot of effort that came into it and so I for one am having a hard time even having an opinion because it's so late in the game the project is sort of cooked there's a lot of thought that came into it on a site that's fully wooded that's very natural um and I think the process is so far along that it's very difficult for me as a planning board member to even have an opinion that can be receiv expected by anyone who's been involved in the project um so my comment on this is what a wonderful concept and idea and how I

091wish we as a planning board had been involved way sooner so we would not take public land that's fully wooded and turn it into a paved playground for dogs when so many of our dog owners as you know prefer natural space like ashon State Park to walk their dogs and be with their dogs so I'm sure that this is very subjective and there's dog owners who will love this space more than I do but I can tell you I really wish we had more input way earlier in the process because I think it's a beautiful idea just not in the right space are you are you um trying to understand are you concerned about the material all the the the stone the rice Stone on the dog park area is that I mean I'm I'm

092just looking as a matter of policy we're looking at a wooded land owned by the town that we're choosing to Deforest put a paved parking lot because it's quote unquote easier to take care of so that our wonderful dogs can be in what looks to me like an urban space I'm making a comment aesthetically that I'm not sure this is consistent with what this planning board would have maybe thought about had we had the Town come to us earlier in the process to say hey these are some of the sites we're thinking about surely there's got to be a less um forested flatter space that the town owns so again this is the kind of thing Anna says that everybody then says well this was already pre-thought and how dare the planning board have such

093thoughts and so what I'm going to say is very very straightforward I will not be voting on this project I will not stand against it because so much work has come into it but I also can't approve it because to me taking forested land that belongs to the people of Ashland to turn it into paved playground for dogs just doesn't sit well with me maybe if we made it for kids I would have a different opinion maybe if children were playing there I would have a slightly different view but to me a dog for me as a dog owner is an animal that appreciates natural space and frankly love trees to pee and do other business with and so personally I have trouble with kind of having an opinion on this project this late in

094the game I really wish we had been involved sooner and I know that sounds very harsh and so to be clear I love the concept and the Heart of it which is let's give our dogs more space to play in I think that is so important I just wish the town had come to the planning board that actually plans a little bit sooner this late in the game to even have this opinion is probably like oh my God how dare she even have an opinion so I will have no opinion as a vote I will just share my view that really this process process again and I keep seeing this with every town project we come to it as a planning board by the time it's already pre-thought precooked and everyone loves it I I

095think it does have a very long history um which I'm not it has come before um the CPC so we've seen it quite a while ago um with some of the funding mechanisms um Yolanda are you approaching the microphone because I think you've been involved from a long time so yes um so there's also many Ashlin residents who have been involved if even though it's the first time I don't to Beed even though it's the first time before the planning board so so Yolanda in actuality this is not the first time it's come to the planning board I believe it might be the first time that all of you as members have seen it so a little history uh as a me and so Yolanda greeves 127 Prospect Street uh I'm a member of the

096Ashland dog park committee it is a committee who said we want to create a dog park in town and probably eight years ago they got together and they said can the select board appoint a dog park committee and we were based on how other things have worked in town volunteer committees sometimes can get things done a little bit sooner so we didn't as a select board we did not create a dog park committee we said to them if you guys want to do this do some work they got some volunt tear together as someone who heard many times from people that they were upset with how our state park was being treated like a dog park and dogs Parks you know dogs would be running loose and there was erosion on certain things when these

097people came to me I said great start working on it uh We've looked at numerous sites since we started this process like I said probably seven or eight years ago and one of the first sites was was over at the Cadillac paint site it was in a neighborhood we talked to the people in the neighborhood they said no we we really don't want it there another site was over by the animal shelter our our animal control over by by Public Works off of Ponderosa road with the Riverwalk going in there people are like no we don't want it there uh we looked off of Olive Street uh a couple of parcels there and again people are like we don't want it in the neighborhood it's going to add to the traffic so when the town

098purchased this property I forget how long ago we did that it was determined that this could be a great location for a dog park understanding that we'd have to take some trees and things like that but the support from the community as we started talking about this site was you're going to save the state park you're going to save some of the um running down of the trails because the dogs are running loose and here is a location that yes we'll have to take some trees but we're taking only part of them and like I said probably six or five or six years ago before I believe most of you were sitting as planning board members the committee came to both the planning board and the select board to talk about creating a park at

099this location unfortunately because of timing and other things that were going on in town this particular project kept getting put on a back burner and put on a back burner and there's an organization called the Stanton foundation and they grant money for dog parks which we've been working with them and getting information and the kind of dog parks they see Framingham is a Stanton Grant dog park they again the town has to put in some money and then you get some money from the Stanton Foundation at the St at the Framingham park there is a paved parking lot near their near their park and other dog parks have paved parking lots uh so I I hear what's being said that you guys haven't been involved in the process um but there was information brought to

100the planning board previously so if we knew if we thought we should have come sooner we would have come sooner but there was no indication in regards to the process that after that initial time that we came and said what we wanted to do when we got some feedback and we got some positive support that that going this detailed into the process that we needed to come to the planning board um I think the the the park itself has been made a hair smaller than what we originally wanted because of the Topography of the land and we want to with work with the conservation agent and the Conservation Commission we are keeping part of it natural the other issue that has been brought up is keeping it clean and being able to not just have

101the the the the Refuge from the animals just go straight into the ground and out into the wetlands so that's why you have the the base and the rice Stone in the two areas that are there um the other issue and why it's been why we're bringing it forward now is the Stanton Foundation is about to shut down and a year and a half ago uh we had thought to put this on the back burner as a town project and we were and it was notified that the Stanton foundation will stop granting dog park funds in 2025 if we can move this project forward we will possibly be one of the last Comm communities to get the foundation money and right now it's about half the cost of this dog park we are hoping to

102get about $225 to $250,000 from the Stanton Foundation to help pay for this dog park the other portion CPC was very kind they reached out to us and they say hey we hear you're working on a dog park we sat before them probably about a year ago and I think at fall town meeting last year the um CPC said we support this here's funding for it so again I I you know I hear what you're saying that you feel like you wanted to be involved sooner um and all I want to do is give you that history but also let you know that I I don't like saying this but we're under our time crunch so I mean again every town project comes to us so far on my personal time on this planning board

103I have yet to hear a town project where we don't get the message that this has been sort of pre prev vetted there's nothing for us to worry about and there's no time but to say yes so so I'm kind of can't speak to other ones speaking speaking conversation a little bit here so U that's all I have to if you have any other questions I'm I'm here to answer them thank thank you as well as other members okay do you have a I will say that if we're stuck with this because it sounds like we're stuck with this to me it seems like we should be minimizing the parking lot there's no need for it it's not required by the grant um and I think we should do everything we can to maximize tree

104coverage and not get rid of so many trees okay is any other comments from the board yeah um I I so the I I definitely have heartburn with Paving Paradise I let's face it that's what and and we it does not have required by the grant so I I there needs to be at least a conversation about that but I also think I mean this board I I don't want to entirely speak for the board but I've been on conversations about trees every time trees come up we all say we care about trees so I feel like part of this um discussion has to be what it's a town project where is the town going to mitigate and plant some trees we can't keep taking down trees and not doing something to replace them and

105I I don't think we're ask I'm personally not asking to go out and count tree for tree I know that's not practical but to do nothing is not acceptable it's not it's not acceptable to do nothing to mitigate that I I just want to Cle back because uh several things can be true at the same time and I I it doesn't happen very often I think Anna made a a very good presentation of of of of of some facts that that are that should be considered and Kate just runed it up I I think what I think the idea of the do Park and has been you know discussed and everything it's great and and I think this there's a lot that probably is going to be very successful uh but what when I started

106talking about what we usually request from private developers and uh and then we had the sustainability not the sustainability committee coming with a with a tree ordinance that we discussed several times um one of the discussions was okay so everything we're going to require from citizens uh from the residents of Ashland is going to be required for the town and like no no no the town would have an exception I objected to that so is it's more like like a philosophical point of I I think that that the project is great but but I think that there is the there is a base requirement that we ask for the for the residents that the town should be should be held to the same way if it's a tree a tree replacement I think it's logical

107to us that the town let's see how many trees are going to take because on all of the projects when they come up and say we're going to take some trees we are the first one to take you have to put twice or three times the amount of trees you're taking out so I think it's fair to us the town to to to do their put their share on on what we ask the residents to do in In fairness so if there's a chance that that we don't have to PVE these up I get it that it's easier to plow and and and maintain that's better for for the maintenance folks um if if if it could be done in a in a more natural way I I I would be happier uh but but

108I think in in in in general in the general sense the things that we uh ask the residents or private citizens to to to provide on projects and Landscaping wise or drainage or or parking should we should we should be consistent Diva I think Anna said it very well um not sure how much more I can add to what we just heard because when this presentation started um I was just surprised at the location that this was chosen um thank you Yolanda for the history because I think that was really important to understand understand that you have visited other sites and then you've landed with it what I was surprised is the community supporting the location and saying let's clear clot all these trees and create a dog park which just was contradicting to all

109that we've been hearing for all the other projects that's been coming to the board um and I'm also curious about how this small 1.47 acre of land really works with a bigger scheme of things of our comprehensive plan what is what is planned for that kind of that location how does this really work there's no residential neighborhood as such for this dark Park what is that bigger scheme of things happening and I'm curious if there was any thought or any conversations about how this ties to your bigger scheme of things of comprehensive plan can I answer okay um so as part of an open space and wreck plan that was worked on back in 2017 there was discussion about people wanting a do Park here in Ashland uh the current comprehensive plan we haven't gotten

110into the details details of what is going to be built once we have the comprehensive plan completed as we speak to the community we've gone out in farmers markets numerous times in talking about about the dog park we've had fundraisers about the dog park a lot of that happened before the pandemic but there was huge support we had members of our dog park committee at the farmers market this spring I'm this summer and again when people people who own dogs and even people who no longer own dogs but who used to own dogs who heard about this and have supported it have asked about it um in regards to the parking lot one of the reasons another reasons we're having it paved is this is an it has to be an ADA Compliant Park meaning

111if I am someone in a wheelchair and I want to take my dog to a dog park I have to be able to park my car take my wheelchair and go to the dog park so I think that's one of the other reasons it's paved and you know I I'm all for sustainability and trying to use surfaces that are that are more permeable um but as we know sometimes those cost more so because of our storm water requirements here in town we have done what we you know working with our de developers and our designers to do things to mitigate that storm water issue we can add more plantings if you're concerned about the number of trees that are being removed we can possibly add more at the front um but again part of what

112the Stanton Grant requires in regards to the area for the dogs is as flat and as clear an area as possible and if you look at the plan there's a good quarter of it that we're not taking as many trees down we're only going to take some of the smaller trees down right thank you I mean not we have another speaker okay sorry Mark you are coming to speak right yes I am but I want to make sure this is open for public comment okay thank you Mark the son 1119 Main Street I'm on the fense about this and I'm not fully against it and I'm not fully for it I asked the question in the conservation meeting one time and I couldn't get an answer about the uh any structures are going to be

113built there that's has nothing to do with here for this my question would be it's Town land yes how much of the town is going to take responsibility and we to take away from there rest of the town's responsibilities in case anything happens like winter that happen that's coming up soon and all that and the year after it's open is that going to be taken priority or is it going to be as duly noted to do because it's off the side of a road and it's on Town land which means town is going to be responsible for care and custody of it how is that going to work sounds like Yolanda can answer that question for you so as part of our work with the Conservation Commission and conservation agent is we have been requiring

114ired to create what's called a maintenance plan and as part of that maintenance plan uh the park itself will be taken care of by volunteers and we have a number of people who have spoken to us and said once the the park is up and running when they bring their dog there they're willing to help out as well as uh you know residents who use the park will help take care of it we've worked with Public Works they'll plow it in the winter and it'll be the last priority of plowing there's also been conversation that depending on weather we might close the park so that it doesn't get tore up as much otherwise the maintenance in inside the chainlink fence picking up the poop potentially replacing mulch potentially raking out piece the the the rice

115Stone as necessary we have a maintenance plan where volunteers will go and make sure that the poop bags are removed from inside of the park and put outside in a in a in a barrel that the DPW would pick up just like they pick up part um the trash from different parks in town um it's not more or less of a responsibility on the residents unless you are taking your dog there and want to be part of maintaining this dog park and um there was another question about what else is in that neighborhood so right now it is just if you're going up Memorial Drive we have the trail trolley Brook Trail is there and also uh we've just uh at our select board meeting we were given a presentation by the metro west YMCA

116so between the Dunkin Donuts and the trail the new Metro West YMCA is going in there and you know they know about the potential of the dog park and it's one of those things that they are going to connect Trails so that people can leave the y go to the trail and go to the you know so it's it's going to be a connected area and again we've heard from people that they like the idea of it being there it was talked well maybe don't add parking one of the issues is we had potentially said well okay we won't have a parking lot because there's the school across the street but they didn't want us to use their area as a parking lot and because of the size of the park and the ADA compliance

117is again some of the reasoning why we're going with a paved parking lot for the dog park just for the dog park um and again that's just some of the rationale behind that so I don't know if that helps but thank you thank you J don't Jen yeah Jen Ball but before Jen speaks I just wanted to make note that this project does require design review so any comment from Marcel of that storm water run off into that Basin or trees um we do have to make a we memo um regarding um design review comments for the design review committee so with that said Jen ball you have your hand up up so please unmute yourself yeah so I just wanted to also just follow up on Yolanda's comments um as part of our funding

118mechanism through a CPC uh I believe that the motion had us having a maintenance plan so we've been working on that with the committee and that would be signed so that we'd have the shared maintenance um to Mark's point about sort of priority I think yoland to outlin most of um all those points um and I think you know at for for plowing it would be we would still do you know Street School schools municipal buildings sidewalks and then some of the other parks and then dog parks so that's the it's it's on the um tertiary sort of priority list for them so you know two or three days after a storm all right thanks Jen Mark do you have another comment yes I do kind of gave me a quar of an answer about

119that but still it's going to be your responsibility of the Town maintenance and the um Public Works people you're going to spread them out to do something that has nothing to do with the residents and the residents are more important than what the dogs would be at at this moment in Winter and I'm only talking winter season when the snow is there and they got to do the roads and back rows and stuff like that so the residents would need should get more a say of what the world should be like that the dog happen to find land to to poop on because dogs don't work the residents do and they need to get out to do that and the rols needs to be done thank you thanks Mark um this obviously has you know

120uh come up through CPC when they were asking for funding and I I believe then it went to town meeting about that funding um was that a year ago yeah year um so it it has been out there and um I I don't see the problem that some of you are saying and maybe because I I have disagreements about some of this as well and I'll kind of repeat some of um some of my points on having to do with the trees because I agree too as we've discussed before no one you're not going to find a person in Ashen that says I hate trees let's take them all down down maybe in the fall when they're covering your leaves with yard with leaves maybe yes but if you start to say okay trees or

121YMCA trees or new school trees or dog park you're probably going to be taking some of those trees out trees in themselves no one wants to get rid of but we we have other things that we use and want in our lives as well and some of those you have to take some trees out to create them and sometimes frankly there's not a a good place to put them if there is in town but it would be putting them in someplace that's an open field but we use those Open Fields as well right so it'd be great if we can plant them somewhere else um but we would have to figure out where is open space without trees that we don't use for something else personally I think this is a good site it's going

122to be tucked in between the ym CA and the trolley book Trail and and the solar field right in that little piece of land and there's a lot of other still forested area behind it that's going to re remain forested area um I think that it it would be great if there'd become some kind of solid peral permeable paver that would allow that water to seep into the ground but it it does need to be accessible I remember that conversation with the CPC and also the big point the big thing is not allowing the the water to leave the site and it's not it's just going a few feet over and then soaking into the ground that way as far as the dogs got I I have a dog too that loves to to run

123this is a completely loves to go in the state park this is a completely different environment for that this is this is about socializing and playing where the state park might be really about being with your owner this isn't about being with your owner dog parts this is about being with other dogs where the owners are being with other owners and the dogs are being with other dogs and while that state park is great and and while you might need some shade definitely when you have those 90° days um I can tell you on a day like today you're really looking to get out in the sunny Parts where there's where there's no trees and be able to warm up a little bit so I think there's it's about looking at both sides of this

124um and um I think that this is something a a dog part is is something that a community of our size frankly I think people have been wanting it for a long time both not only dog owners to to be able to go someplace with their dogs um but um people people in the state park who would rather have as many dogs as possible get out of the state park um I'm not saying that's going to happen but it'll certainly alleviate I I would think some of the some of the congestion I'm not saying this is perfect and I think it's great to go to the design Review Committee um get some other ideas about plantings are there a few more trees that could be saved in a more wooded area what's the downside to

125that but um but otherwise I I think this is a I think it's a good area for it I'm I'm surprised at the the feedback actually um so that's my statement on it if there's any other comments from the board will take them if there's any other comments from the public will take them but obviously this will have to go to the design review is there any way like the people want the dog park I don't have a dog anymore I think the dog park having nation's great is there any way because there like that that drainage is a lot of money and work and Grading and like comparing that to some kind of permeable pavement and I just wish I want I want our town to like not always say next time right it's

126expensive like I want us to at least really really really consider that and like that's the town that we say we're a green Community we have this like Net Zero by 2030 and we always keep kicking the can and I I I'd like to at least try to get what that cost difference is and it shouldn't like cost is important right it's public public and private but like I want us to have values I want us to live the values we say and it's kind of frustrating to get those kicked to the side right about permeable Paving and about tree replacement I do not think they all have to be on the site I I cannot believe that there's no places that need trees in town or what if we said the trees and you

127offered like there's whatever somebody wants a tree in their yard that replac like I I think we like we hear over and over again to our community sustainability I I think I probably am more passionate now being part of the comprehensive plan that came out very clear in those surveys so I just I just I just hope we can do better I think um and then I have comment so I we started our project checklist there was a technical review meeting do you have the date and then we didn't get a memo yet are we getting a memo you know what I think that's just something I'll circulate that out I think it's just something that we just forgot to add into the package tonight but we'll take care of it with a memo and

128we'll circulate that out with a date off the top of my head I do not recall okay so that and then I'm just keeping the notes it's so technical review We Said Yes it goes design review um conservation yes I I don't know that we necessarily need it's always us parallel making sure it's covered it sounds like it is but if we want that um I I'm not sure we need traffic but I'm kind of just going through our list if anyone thinks anything about traffic there um I mean we can think about that as we talk about parking since we're talking about parking yeah no I'm just going um the I guess if the uh drainage got through conservation it does not need to go to gcg but I I don't know because we

129usually often every time have gcg look at drainage calculations M if if the board would like we can send it to gcg G uh you know it you know Becca is the most thorough conservation agent in the state of Massachusetts um and I can say that she's reviewed it she's worked with myself and and Michael to design this plan and and there seems to be no uh red flag at this point okay I'm and I'm kind of just going through so it's I I will just put no and if that's what we're saying not needed third party review I it depends how we all feel about the parking I I do have three comments I don't know if you want to keep going through this um I'm just ging to at sustainability checklist we kind

130of talked about I that's it on this list so if we those are the things I I mean I'll say as a dog owner I've been hearing a lot about a dog park and I've been very excited but not once did anyone say oh it's going to be on a wooded surface with tree removal I honestly imagined it would be natural whenever I heard about it that was my assumption so unless we've done a survey of people who've been excited about it I don't think I'm the only one who would be like really that's what we're doing um I will say that you know I'm not an ADA expert but what I'm finding online really quickly the Ada does not require paved for ADA compliance you can have gravel surfaces it has to be firm

131stable and slip resistant and apparently gravel is one way to do it although it's Technical and tricky but the idea that it has to be paved to be ADA Compliant seems to be f although again I'm not an expert in ADA compliance and I don't think any of us are um so we could maybe get a legal opinion if someone wants to explore that but I'm not seeing any kind of understanding that you can't be ADA Compliant in fact I've been to I believe municipally owned or nonprofit owned or perhaps even state owned properties where there is no paid parking lots so it' be shocking to me if that's considered against federal law um the other thing I'll say is uh ultimately there is a parking within distance and while someone of the school may

132not like the idea that is part of our Resource as the public and so I think that is a natural solution to have some gravel that more natural space and if people want to use a parking lot it's not far other comments from the board yeah there's two people oh sorry I was going to get the board first Okay no Okay then we'll take the comments online uh first with their hand raised Michael um please unmute yourself yeah so um it's a good healthy discussion thank you uh I I just wanted to add a little bit of I'm going to make two com well three now that we talked about ADA um in reverse order so um I I actually am an expert on on handicap accessibility and um and I'm the town's consultant so

133I think you can pound on me not just as an advocate you know on working on behalf of the dog park but for for the town as well um it it's true that it it is not a um technical requirement of the Massachusetts architectural access board to have a paved parking lot they do they require a p a stable surface I have never done a public parking lot that hasn't had pave handicap uh spaces I just haven't done it and I would be um I would have to think about putting my stamp on a plan that just had gravel parking for handicap access so I'll just I'll I'll leave that there for the issue of um permeable Paving um and I can we I can talk with Nick uh and the Civil team about this

134offline but in New England we typically don't do permeable Paving for vehicular spaces because they tend to get clogged with salt and sand and they do become a maintenance issue um they have to be vacuumed um by a special um equipment a special truck um I don't know that Ashlin has that um or you would have to contract it out so um we do permeable Paving all the time for pedestrian spaces because it doesn't have that uh the amount of grit that you would get from tires and and and um salt and sand um and then I'll say the last thing and I'm going to share my screen one more time um just to give you a little context this is uh Park in Danvers that we did which is almost kind of the same

135approach that we're we would like to do in ashline which is half of it is this open area and here you could see that Rice Stone again and the concrete Paving um and and this is the wooded area this was the area that was to be preserved so I did this probably I want to say 10 years ago and this is what it looks like this year this used to be a fully wooded area and you can see what happened is that you know we let the dogs back there and all of a sudden they're trampling on on the roots you start to get exposed roots and exposed Stone here and you start to get erosion and this is a very flat site what we have in Ashland is not even this flat in the

136wooded area so I get a little bit concerned about preserving more areas of where there are trees and and what happens to that over the long term um that said uh you know we certainly can look at things like adding um more trees you know in in and around the site or maybe even inside the um rice Stone area to provide a little more shade um you know there are certain things like we can we can sharpen our pencil and kind of go back and look at the design of this to try and mitigate some of these uh concerns so I'll I'll leave it at that I like that approach I I I think what's being proposed is reasonable I think they should go to design review and we should ask for especially the planting

137part because they are there's more experts there that than we are on that and just to hear their opinion uh but but I think the the idea of of maybe just of course this was a a first pass without this feedback but maybe some trees can be left or introduced um I think we'll make it get better yeah I agree I think there's a there's a um there's there's a middle ground here I think that's anytime you look at sustainability it's that choice between do I cut my trees down so the solar panels work yeah or do you know like you said there choices to make there's choices to make and of course it's a dog park so it's it's not like the YMCA right it's a different kind of level of choice uh but

138but but it goes back to what we said before like everybody gets really excited when they're going put a new regulation to get the citizens or the residents to comply with this and that and then we're going to force them to do but then when it's a town it's kind of different so I I think this approach would would get a more balanced uh kind of side that that's that's that incorporates a little bit more of I think you want to be careful though like even when we're talking about the the public private I mean I guess the the two buildings we've been doing we did we the school and the public safety building which are both public buildings and a lot of trees had to come down for those projects to get them in

139right oh yeah um and you know more trees like I said than we then obvious like I'm not sure we'd have space to replace them maybe if you're giving away to private citizens that were you know putting or or medians on the streets like we've talked about before sometimes yeah but I I think that also you know we we we we're talking about a tree bylaw and I think um you know it wasn't clear coming out of that conversation if those trees can be replaced one to one right and how practical that that actually was so that I would just want to make that comment I think Jen ball has been waiting to speak can I speak yeah hi um so thank you can you guys hear me y y okay so thank you for

140all your comments um just to sort of build off what Michael was talking about I mean I think the other um piece so I think to Anna's comments about sort of the envisioning As Natural as possible that's certainly something that the dog park committee had also hoped for and so trying to find the balance between um the the the topography and and what we have to work with with the site um but then also with the grant requirements and again with um you know with ADA compliance and again you are correct in the fact that like you do not have to have a paved site however we do still also have to think about the capacity to maintain that with our current Staffing levels and so you know the gravel often times does become rutted

141um we have some issues with the Riverwalk at Ponderosa we that um stoned us with basically a polymer That was supposed to kind of keep it all glued together and be compacted um but with a good with a good rainstorm you end up with a lot of divots and you have some issues and so just making sure um we can certainly look at it but we just have to also think about long-term maintenance that was one of the push backs I think from CPC is to really think about how we keep this um because obviously we can't use that type of funding for maintenance um in future years so again I think it's like a real Balancing Act I completely understand your point um a real Balancing Act of sort of you know all the

142requirements that we're trying to meet all right Anna I mean I I definitely appreciate that I think that that's the nature of this kind of work right every everybody wants something and it's hard to make everyone happy and find a perfect balance and we got to sort of weigh our values I suppose you know I'm thinking about ADA compliance is there a way to make that parking lot truly for ADA compliance alone and allow handicap spaces but the rest of it is gravel is there a way to make that parking lot way smaller but allowing a handicap van to get there and maybe those of us who who don't require that can actually use the school parking lot and walk um how how there's so many different ways to approach it without necessarily just aiming

143for frankly efficiency and cheapness for the sake of a grant that we now have a deadline of a month so um to me that makes me really uncomfortable when we're being asked as a planning board to figure out those really tough balancing design related therefore we have jurisdiction decisions with so little time to do the right thing it it it frankly makes me really uncomfortable because I very much appreciate that a lot of people have already put a lot of thought into it and have done their very best to make lots of people happy so by the time it comes to us we're between a rock and a hard place or gravel and pavement and and it's very difficult to to be helpful I just want to also just make one more quick just um

144for the parking across the street um that isn't actually a parking lot so there is no curb cut um it's like people have just sort of parked there on the field I've talked to the school department they potentially have future um expansion plans for that that it would no longer have ability to park so it wasn't just like no you guys can't park here that's not convenient for us they're planning um for future sort of expansion um on their campus and so it is part of the school's property I think it's also frankly important to have um even if you're not Ada to have um parking available for older residents and residents with young children and who might have a hard time parking far away and yet making it to the to the dog park

145so I think there's there's again a variety of citizens and a variety of residents we need to to think about here um is I see Jen is do you have your hand up again Jen Okay so I think we want to um maybe take this one comment but then look to see um if we're just ready to send it to design review if we want to create a memo about that maybe we do to summarize this conversation um and then let um let design Review Committee take a look at it so it looks like Helen so yes we have one hand up uh miss Helen Nicole uh Helen I'm going to ask you to unmute and introduce yourself with your name and address you are now uh unmuted Elliot Circle so basically Trish uh just

146made my full point because I I wasn't really exactly sure where that parking across the street was but I did want to mention that for older people especially for older people who may not be um in possession of a handicap clock or going that far with a dog and across the road especially in the winter time uh might be very very hazardous and actually a problem for them to be able to do that so I just wanted people to take that in consideration when they were thinking about that that that was my point Thank you thank you okay so um let's look at um creating one of our typical memos about this obviously related to the relevant issues um of things we wanted to would want them to look at that would include um obviously

147the main one is vegetation but it could also vegetation water run off um do we wanted explore the idea of Designing that parking L slightly differently so it's not so much pement well I think we'll we'll we'll put um obviously the the paving they should they that that's part of what they look at anyway but they can look at the paving they are I mean we can tell them to I want to make sure we're agreeing to tell them to look at the payment yeah we can we can put it on there is there a way to find a middle ground where part of that is gravel and part of it is payment minimize some of the payment I I I'm kind of more in an agreement with you than not Anna but I don't

148think that's practical in a on a parking lot of these size I think once you have a construction of it's it's a very small lot I'm not sure that that would be but they they should look maybe they have good ideas I mean let's explore it it may it may not be worth it it may not it may be more worthwhile to save some of the trees and and add plantings than it is to care about the parking lot I agree but I say add it to their list I mean I agree and I was confident with the um engineer that things will be looked at based on the conversation so I think we're in pretty good shape that way CU you're talking about one accessible spot if you you have 20 cars you're literally

149talking about one access yeah we may be stuck with the parking lot my question is let's explore yeah whether we're stuck with the parking lot if there's other mediums of kind of is there a way do this the parking PCT yeah okay so we will be looking at um I don't know when the design Review Committee meets next so I'm going to work with Alvaro obviously we'll iron that out um the planning board has one meeting in December we could always schedule another meeting in December if I pull up my calendar um obviously the the next meeting for the py board is going to be on the 28th of November we will not be meeting that is Thanksgiving um with that said um our next meeting in December would be the 12th at this point

150and and I'm confident that the design Review Committee could meet between now and then to discuss this yes so why don't we so we should then uh we we should move it to the we will be U moving to the 12th yes right 12th of December yes unless unless for any reason I think two weeks is actually puts us at December 5th we could if we would rather go December 5th well so the shot clock on I believe if I did this right is March 4th of 2025 we we are hearing that that's not practical I'm just saying so if we put P that in December that that is it that's the one meeting say we're happy and I guess because that depends on the grant right I think yeah no I get it that's

151why I'm talking about but it's kind of the same thing like do we want to give us just one meeting for MBTA Z before the town meeting like I feel like we should try to um possibly have another one so then there's the 12 that can happen for or do something because otherwise like we don't really need to talk about it we could hold the meeting on the 5th and we could hold obviously invite the design Review Committee we could have a joint meeting it's not out possibility I think that's fine but that would be fine but I I don't think we're talking about a very complicated project here I I think if the design review is going to have a look at the few items it's like three items y I don't I don't

152see why we could not bring to the next meeting and be done with but but um where do people sit I'm thinking about for other reasons as well just looking at our schedules quick where do people sit for December fifth um would everyone be around at that time and the 12th both for days right we would I think well I think we'd go the fifth and then we and then see if what we have for the 12th or the or the 19th or another you know fine for me because right now we would only be meeting now and once in December and we would be done for the year if we move it to the 5ifth we at least have a possibility for fitting in something quick if we need to was that I have

153a potential trip but it's not confirmed yet so okay in Ence it's postive the fth is fine so look look at the fifth deer do you think the fifth is good for you yes okay and that but but you said that that would be as a tentative depending we have to continue this to a date and so I was looking to continue it if possible to December 5th okay and let's take that earlier date and if we get our work done we get it done but if we don't we have have opportunity to have that second meeting if things aren't resolved we we're not under the same pressure yet not throwing away this potential grant money which I think would be really stupid of us to do so okay so do I have a motion

154to continue this until December 5th oh wait oh sorry Michael just just to make note Michael do you think you're free on the 5ifth to to join the next PL board meeting yes okay thank you thank you I'm sorry for include you on that one no good good call I'll make a motion to move the site plan review and design plan review of the dog park project to December 5th all right your second okay and a roll call vote Marcel I Katherine Jers guy and Trisha Kendall I do we have uh there anyone well I guess there's anyone that wants to to help put together this memo I always like a second pair of eyes on it usually it's it it's been Marcelo typically unless anyone else okay everyone's okay with Marcelo all right so

155we put something together and um we'll get that to design Review Committee all right thank you everyone from dog park thank you all right next on our agenda is the MBTA community's question and answer but I think um I think we have some I think if I if I'm if if I'm right um in understanding that you had come for the our agenda item about the discussion of the 40b project is is that right right and in general um I apologize that's on our that's on our agenda because we want it on our agenda in case we want to discuss it at any time so we don't have anything specific about that but we'd be happy to hear your comments and answer any questions you have about it before we go to our our MBTA

156agenda item okay hi uh Paul flarity uh I own the property adjacent to th this project at 63 wavely Street uh I was a longtime Ashland resident went to high school with Mark um and uh this the property that we own small residential property was my grandmother's house our family's been there for a long time I've owned it since 1981 lived there for a while um and we have now three Apartments there which um we've been renting over the years we have two of them are occupied by family members but um you know so we we try to uh help out the family and uh the project I understand it's something that's needed in the area but we're at the end of the property that has a 25 foot buffer zone so we have an

157existing one-story residential house at this wall and at the door is going to be a fivestory apartment building 25 ft away doesn't seem acceptable in my humble opinion um I I oppos the changed to the uh zoning at the time I believe it was um for this specific reason and uh was assured by the planning board at that time that they would never let anything of that size be built that close to a a uh existing residential property but this is where we stand now now so I'm hoping that the developers of the project could cooperate in some manner to maybe give us a little bit more space you know be good neighbors like they say they want to be but I believe we're the only ones really being affected much by this project um

158so that's where we stand and I just want you know when when something's being discussed about about this project I just want to be here to hear it and you know be able to say my piece yeah so this project and Peter can jump in here um but this project U that you're talking about is a 40b project yes and that means that it does not come before the piding board it does not it does not that means it it will be going um in front of the zoning board of appeals in Ashland okay I don't know what the schedule of that is it it they have meetings just like we do they have been still all online I think they are I don't know how they'll do it for these projects coming up but

159Peter do you know more about that that yeah so I can tell you traser is correct all 40 BS throughout the state go in front of the zoning board of appeals what's known as a comprehensive permit right um 40b law enacted 1969 right after the fair housing market act the Fair Housing Act um that that's kind of the process it does take right Paul you and I have spoken a couple times I know I sent the email and I connected you with Mass housing so at this point Mass housing did Issue a letter of Eligibility which was issued to 61 wly Street and also 10 to 60 Main Street okay um and that happened at gez at this point maybe a month and a half ago two months ago um I can tell you and

160I've I I can tell you again that regarding 61 Waverly Street the applicant has not signaled to us when he and when he plans to file his full application for that comprehensive permit but that application does not go before the planning board it will not come in front of this planning board it will go in front of the zoning board of appeals I can tell you right now is you as a butter and if you are on the the you will be legally noticed when that goes out I think if you are the owner on the tax record you will receive a notice obviously you are within 300 ft and obviously you and I have been communicating over the last couple months um with that said um I'm sorry I lost my train of thought

161um the planning board more than likely like all towns and committee all boards and committees will be asked to maybe submit a letter of of their opinion um into a memo stating their opinion on the project or what should be looked at that will be done and I think that's why you'll see into the future that you'll see comments or this is an agenda item on the planning boards okay so I should be looking at the zoning Bo zoning boards meeting yeah and myself and obviously the big the best thing to do PA to stay in touch stay in touch with me um I can tell you right now that letter of Eligibility that Mass housing issued uh about a month and a half ago two months ago that's good for two years right that's

162a that's almost like a live permit that the pling board would issue right so that applicant really has two years to file a full application with us um after the mass housing did issue that letter I reached out to open the lines of communication you know softly with the applicant and um they signaled we'll get around to it when we get around to it yeah they didn't seem too interested in any oh I'm sorry oh okay yeah mine's muted I think thank you um it might be you Peter I think your laptop is speakers work was it this one yeah my volume's off I it's the mic's muted I'm looking for the speaks yeah I would encourage you while you're uh say while we're figuring that out just to when those meetings start um the

163process is probably going to be long it's going to be arduous and to come anyway okay yes I mean they're open meetings and I'll stay in touch with Peter um it'll probably be in the the newsletter that Michael puts online it should be everywhere that those meetings are happening but are you connected to the newsletter Paul I am not okay that's through the town managers to to through our ashon town website you can for the newsl okay should I I come in to sign up withone you can find it um and I will say that it's been discussed internally that the zoning board of appeals um not internally it's been discussed with the chairman of the zoning board of appeals that they will be coming back in person and so when these 40 BS come

164in since the pandemic they've stayed virtual um that will change that will shift and that will be they will be then coming back into um either most likely this meeting room um and if there's a large crowd and it this this probably not I think I'm I'm the only one that cares well so here's the thing you came to us other than pointing you towards other people I think we can take some responsibility and I can tell you that when my when we draft the letter to the zoning board of appeals I will I will suggest to this planning board that we request a buffer zone for you or some trees be trees or not this is something there's not really room for trees there may not be room but there may be room on

165their side of the property to plant some trees to create a buffer for you that's visual because if you have a five-story building you're staring at maybe that can be the buffer that they create and so these are some of the things that we can potentially request so that you're not staring at a building I wouldn't mind staring at a building that's a little bit further away or if they can't move it's right to the South so we will be in the shadow the entire winter but anyways I'll I I'll just stay on top of it thank you for your cooperation and uh good luck with everything all right thank you Paul thank you I see one hand raised Miss Joan G Friday Miss Joan I'm gonna ask excuse me as Miss Miss G Friday

166I'm gonna ask you to unmute yourself yes thank thank you um jungan Friday W Shore Road um on the historical commission but speaking as an independent resident um I have a question about the um the and something that I'm looking at the um the mill building and the 6 the 61 wav Street um I noticed in their apartments that I I think none of us really believe they're affordable but um given the fact that that's what they're called I'll use that as the example um so when you compare the affordable versus the market um see that it actually ends up the way I looked at it and I think maybe I'm wrong and so I'm asking you this question um is that the it the market does not require does um not pay any utilities

167and the affordables do pay utilities and when you add the utilities in the affordables become more expensive than the market but then I see a note down there that says utility um um utilities to be paid by tenants so I'm just wondering it's um both both projects have that issue so I'm just wondering if I'm if I'm crazy or if that's something that could be looked at and and you could let me know if if that's if I'm correct or if it's or other otherwise regardless I think that that's a very small difference between affordable and Market when you look at the at the number so but it's a great question I don't know if I have the answer specifically regarding the the payment of utilities um I will say um I do know that

168those affordable rates are dictated by the state um and those are annually analyzed uh by the by the um executive office of Housing and Community Development so um the town does not really have any control over the um quote unquote affordable units um that's dictated from the state no I yeah I I understand I agree with you but um I'm just wondering whether the developers are using some kind of a way around it by having the affordables pay the utilities and the market rate not that that was that's really my question so thank you I yeah I I don't think I have any answer I I don't think I have the knowledge to to at this point in time to answer that question directly okay all right thank you all right uh next on our

169agenda is um the m ta communities and I don't think there's really again we're kind of our agenda has kind of become this really really long list of things that we should do and uh and we you know don't generally get there but maybe after the new year when some of these things are off the list so MBTA communities what what um what we had intended for this meeting is that um in in your um and we'll bring can you bring it up y um I did make a very few tweaks but they're all graphic um so we can use this one so I think in number one there's both um the slides you'll see the pages of the slides this is my draft slide presentation which I'll maybe I'll be able to go to

170the microphone and can I do that go to the microphone and like a I won't be able to get my all my thoughts together and then after that there's um the this um frequently asked questions sheet so what um Anna had missed that meeting so she listened to the meeting and she wrote down the questions that people had asked at our um at our public hearing um most of them but not all of them were really um appropriate to be a part of um this document which is the frequently asked questions about MBTA we have to be careful because we it has to be kind of a just a factual kind of very neutral document so um uh first that list of questions that Anna had written down went to Peter and Alo and they

171filled in the factual kind of the factual answers to those questions as best they could then that document went to Amanda who insisted that she would be bored and that she would need something to do so I sent it to her she still wanted to do it so she went through it and um kind of massaged it a bit and then it came back to me and then and I did the same thing um kind of massaging it the things that um I felt as being on the committee for this long we really needed people to let know things I thought were unclear or not complete so that's what this is just so you know that both the presentation do I still have Jen on there no she left both the presentation and this frequently

172asked questions document I need to give to Jen and to Adam Schuster on by Saturday or on Saturday because that's the timeline they need it before town meeting so um oh and after that um in the book also is this chart which compares the NBTA communities to 40b projects that's not something I obviously want to get into in my presentation because it's supposed to be with MBTA but people keep getting confused about it so there's this sheet and I kind of assume in the question and answer period at town meeting some stuff will come up um Peter are you going to be at town meeting oh yeah okay so I assume between you and Michael you'll be handling that stuff that is out of the realm of the working group which is the realm I

173want to stay in uh so November 16th is town meeting just so those of us who want to come 19th it's 19th Yeah Tuesday Tuesday the 19th be there be square um I actually I'm glad you mentioned about getting it to Adam and I it's obviously sounds in the works but I think if you're doing a presentation you technically also have to ask yeah we're I know it's a I talked to him um I know him I talked to him um I was concerned about the amount of time we need to present because usually he's like you get this much he realizes the importance of this um um so I I think he we talked about maybe around 10 minutes of presenting personally I feel that after that you yeah people start to not be

174able to follow so I'm trying to keep it basic and then other things will be picked up in the questions and answers so what I thought I could do is just go through the slides I'm not going to be perfect in how it won't be exactly like town meeting haven't practiced at all I actually will because I used to do speech contests and that's how I got it right when I practiced so I'll probably practice a little bit so make sure I get it all on 10 minutes but if you see something that Trish that isn't clear in fact I'm going to take my slides up there or you can make notes on your slides too if something isn't clear you have to understand this more you misspoke here make a note of it um

175so that this can really be a good dry I guess I'm just um one minute I'm just going to hold on a sec um did you send the power presentation to Al on the drop I I it's just the one that you guys sent to me okay I it's fine just use that one I I have literally the the tweaks I made were tiny and they were graphic it wasn't it wasn't like a substance okay tweak so I'm just trying like oh my yeah no no just use the one that you guys sent me okay let me grab this stuff I'm sorry for everybody thank for your patience let me jump back and got drop box yeah said I brought my computer a you no I shouldn't you know draw box sometimes it's not my

176friend compliance the updated dos I'm going to say download and open y there it is okay you want to put on SL slideshow mode or whatever just to make it bigger okay so um again oh also looking to how it reads this obviously the auditorium is much bigger I don't know like how what point size I can get and have it be readable that's there's no way for me to test it out but anyway okay um so do you want this timed oh yeah I'm sure it won't be exactly the same but um so just to give a little history about um about the process of the MBTA and this is part of what one of you guys had mentioned about having a little bit of history in it that um section 3A which is

177part of 40a of Mass General law um was created as a part of another legislation to strengthen the state's economy in order to in order to create multif family housing your train stations to lessen the housing shortage so that was done um it was signed into law in January of 2021 after um an anonymous vote in the Senate and a very um High approval rate R in the in the house um and as a bipartisan effort um that was in 2021 in December a year later um we got draft guidelines were released to communities and that was followed by a comment period where the states sorry with the communities could um provide feedback on those regulations final regulations were then released in August 2022 that's a little over two years ago the first first part

178of that um for compliance was to sub for communities to submit an action plan to the state Peter I think that date wrong I think it's I think elro got back to me that was January 2023 it was submitted in January 2023 you I correct the state the letter of compliance that came back to us is dated March of 23 okay so the letter of compliance from the state is March we submitted it I believe it was January 31st so we knew we in compliance so far in March of 2023 correct so that same fall about six months later the ashin select board and the planning board formed a four-person working group that included Town planner Peter machic assistant Town planner Alro aspara select board member Joe manani and myself um to start working on

179our our mandate was to find a way that Ashlin could be in compliance with um with the D new MBTA communities law so when the four-person working group met um we oh no I'm jumping ahead here because I don't know my slides I might actually that might mean I I'm just checking something okay I might change the order of my slide I'll go from where I am but what I'm wondering if I is I have a slide later on that talks about the working group and I think it it actually might make more sense right after this but I'll think about that do you think so yeah because it says working group all right so so um keep keep this where it is Peter but oh it doesn't matter we'll put that slide ahead so

180um when the working group got together the first thing we discussed is what was important to us as a group what we thought would be important to Ashland and the first thing we talked about is the comprehensive plan process the comprehensive plan was fairly new in getting started at that time and we wanted to make sure we respected that process the town was putting a good deal of money into studying the future of Ashland and a large group of people was involved in that process so respecting the comprehensive plan process was important to us the second thing we wanted to do is to reuse the housing and Zoning we already have everyone in Ashland knows that we have been we have been building housing here in Ashland not only Cirrus but we have a development

181going up at 100 Chestnut Street we have another approved project at 501 Pawn Street and there was um a friendly 40b that was planned for a long Memorial Drive so we have been looking very seriously at housing here in Ashland and we wanted to reuse what we've already done and the third thing through those two things was to minimize the overall impact to Ashland as much as we could if there's changes in housing that's going to come out of um if Ashen is going to make changes in housing we want those changes to come out of the comprehensive plan process rather than the MBTA process or the working group so those were our three considerations going back to what is the MBTA communities first we need to go through just a few important definitions that

182will help it in our understanding of what the bylaw is that we're talking about tonight first of all is zoning zoning is what the planning board does zoning is what this MBTA community's act requires zoning is about what uses are allowed in our town in Ashland and where those uses are allowed so it's it's important to note that the MBTA Act is about zoning it's not about building this bylaw will create an over an overlay zoning District um this means when it's an overlay District it's a zoning District laid on top of existing zoning that allows for new use options so this will be zoning laid on top of all our other zoning that simp simply allows for this multif family development and allows it to happen according to the new state regulations a dwelling

183multif family will come into play here um and that is a building containing three or more dwelling units so we're required to create multif family housing sorry to zone for multif family housing and as of right these zoning units must be as of right that means that the development can proceed without a special permit it does mean however that developments still have to follow environmental regulations the building code and they still have to have a site plan review with the Ashen planning board but it is a site plan review and not a special permit so next slide is where the MBT communities are in Ashland so it's important to understand that the NBAA communities applied not just to Ashland obviously but to all the communities shown on this slide um depending on if your community

184has a subway stop a commuter rail stop or if you're just next to a community that has one of those it will depend on how much housing and how much acreage that you need to zone for so Ashland is characterized as a commuter rail Community for obvious reasons and our requirements are based on that designation so again it's important to note that the law the MBTA communities law requires the creation of a zoning District it does not require the housing to be built all right next slide so on this slide we're showing this is where I might get too small I might have to make I think I'm gonna have to make this bigger um so this slide is showing first of all in black the um the requirements for the MBTA first of all

185we're going to look at the number of acres for our communter rail community in Ashland we need a zoning District that totals at least 50 acres all right our proposal as we will show you later um totals 56.1 12 acres so just above that 50 acre threshold you can divide your acreage it doesn't have to be all in one piece you can divide it into subdistricts we have divided um our district into five subdistricts that are at least five acres each so if you divide it into subdistricts each of them has to be at least five acres half of our zoning District uh must be contiguous this is another one of the rules so if we have 56.1 2 Acres half of that has to be all in one piece one chunk so for us

186we have 50.3 Acres that are contiguous that's kind of just over that threshold 28.26% of the Acres have to be located within .5 miles a half a mile of the T Station we have we do that very well we have 61.3% of our Acres within 05 miles of the MBTA station next Slide the next category of regulations we have to deal with is the density for all the districts that we create the one district and the five subdistricts they have to have each a minimum of 15 housing units 15 dwelling units per acre um as we look at the our five districts they range from 15 units per acre to 30 units an acre in density we also have to create through our zoning a certain we have to allow for a certain number of

187units to be built so by taking um acreage and timesing it by density we understand how many units we need for Ashen we need to accommodate 15% of our housing units from the 2020 census that's the regulation as being for being a commuter rail community so our housing units as of 2020 was 7,495 we take that times 15% and we get 1,124 housing units that we need to zone for not to build but to zone for right now our proposal um would allow for 1,100 and 44 units just that's that's just 20 units over um what is um the minimal that we can produce okay next slide so which is yeah the working group so I ski that so the proposal um our overlay District would consist of these five subdistricts shown in green a

188b c d and e um and you can see the ones that uh the the MBTA circle is shown on the map you can see the ones that are completely within that Circle and the ones that lie with um outside of it we're going to be going through these one by on so that people understand where they are you can also see the Memorial Drive a that's Cirrus Apartments that's our 28 contiguous Acres um so that's our our biggest component of this each of the other components are five to seven acres um in size um next slide so subdistrict a this is serus Apartments along at the end of Memorial Drive um past the Dunkin Donuts up over the hill um until you get to the TR near the train station so again this is

189our largest component it's 28.26% so what this means and when we go back to one of our goals is that we're trying to use the housing developments and the the housing that we've already produced this is housing Ashton has already produced so we can assign a larger density to that area without actually building anything on it and though the property owners if this is passed though the property owners would have the right to add more housing there if they could um we find it very unlikely and it that would be very difficult to add that housing um there with the current housing already already in place so we're using using that asset you want show the next slide subdistrict B this is Pleasant Street I might retake those photos because they're dark um this was

190stretched from Community uh sorry connect Church through Burnham's um Supper Club um this stretch of land is just uh 6.86 Acres it its current density does not go by units and eight units and acre but it goes by something called floor area ratio or F which is a two by studying this very carefully we have determined that a that a floor area ratio of two actually allows a much greater density than the MBTA communities would allow at 15 so it would be um unlikely that a developer would follow MBA density at 15 at 15 units an acre to build on these properties if they did they would use the current underlying density the current underlying zoning which is already more dense um than the MBTA would allow next slide oh so subdistrict C is 10

191to 60 Main Street these are the mill buildings as most of you probably know there is a 40b project that is proposed for this site um that 40b project is proposed that is density of 36 units an acre we are proposing the MBTA density at 15 units an acre so again this is a property that um is very likely going to have housing on it of some kind so we are trying to use it as a our MBTA communities so we get kind of a double use out of it in a way next slide is subdistrict D this is Chestnut Street Queen Isabella away this is the project that's currently in construction that you likely have driven by the built density of this site is 28 units and Acres 28 units an acre again it's

192still in construction we've proposed that it's just slightly higher at 30 units an acre um for the same reason um we feel we can add added density onto that and it would be actually very um very unlikely that um that the that the Builder would be actually would want or be able to add that greater density with a project already this far along in construction next slide and finally subdistrict e this is 501 Pawn Street that the district actually includes both 501 Pawn Street which is currently an empty lot and The Residence at Valley Farm which is next door to it so um these two lots together together give us 7.24 Acres because we have to have at least five on 501 prawn Street there is up an approved project um that had went through

193the planning board two years ago it's meant about about a year in front of the planning board it is 120 units of housing that is a 25% affordable project so all of them would count toward our affordable housing count with commercial and a kind of a a public um green space in the front of the building so again that is housing that we have already approved and we want to make sure we use it in our MBTA communities so that is currently to looking at just 501 not Valley Farm it is a density of 32 units an acre however the underlying zoning of Pond Street would only allow a density of about of about 22 units an acre so if that project does not get built we wanted to set the density at what the

194zoning already allows which is 22 units an acre and not the 32 units an acre that it's currently that it's currently proposed as a 25% affordable project all right other details other details that we in in the MBTA zoning that um whatever project gets built or that has to be um um in the zoning is uh the kind of occupants so for these um for these developments there can be no age restrictions and there um the apartments need to be suitable for families with children meaning that the the town can't put restrictions on the number of bedrooms or the size of the unit that has to be um up left up to the developer the setbacks and height um follow besides what's actually written in the bylaw which changes the density it follows all the

195underlying zoning um that's already in the Ashland bylaws so if it's not listed in the bylaw it's following what the underlying zoning is um that goes for all of the setbacks and height I think the one exception to that is 100 Chestnut Street where in 100 Chestnut Street if you were building all residential it would only be able to be three stories um here as that building is already built and we feel it very unlikely that it will change we have let it go to four stories in that location the parking minimum is a one space for studios and one space for one bedroom apartments two or more bedrooms be 1.5 spaces um and those would not be able to be lessened um in any way under the underlying zoning affordability um the affordable component

196of these projects would be a minimum of 10% we are hoping to get that to 12.5% for most of the districts probably everything except 501 Pawn Street but this depends on the um that depends on state approval of the of the bylaw so that's all I have I need a conclusion already oh you did I think it fits better there I think that's great what what time what time is it 1 minutes oh that sucks okay I have a I mean I I have a couple of marketing tricks that I think will help you or just ideas that might help you kind of shorten your points so I think the strength of the presentation is you're starting out with the concept of the state had a purpose and the purpose is to increase housing next

197to the mvt I think you need to start with sort of a premise what is the state after and I think you need to tell them at the beginning the state's purpose is to add housing as close to MBTA stops as possible to make it easier for people to live in Massachusetts and commute and work and live right like that needs to be said at the very advantage of ex that needs to be said at the very of existing infrastructure that's right the public needs the public needs to hear from the very start of this presentation why are we here because the state cares about having housing next to our MBTA infrastructure that is the goal right and if you start there then the public hears why we're doing this that's important and I would

198not I would not nobody no offense no one cares when that happened all they care about is why is the state doing this to us so you need to tell them that in a constructive way because there's a positive intentionality the legislature has a reason that is public interest oriented I don't think anyone is going to Care it for you to say these things they can just look so good to have them up there but no need to say them great idea but people really don't understand they're like why is the state requiring this the audence read it okay yeah yeah and then I think your second slide has to be the working group consideration but I would rethink the use the you you used two words I would rethink you you used the word

199reuse and you use the word double use I would stay away from those the reason I would stay away from those is they hint that it could be reused in some way or they hint that we're trying to get some kind of advantage in double using it I think a better term of use is recognition or credit because Ashland has Ashland has already done what the state wants that needs to be said outright we're trying to get credit for what we already did you're giving the people a sense that because their attitude rightfully so as mine is that the ashin has has already done a lot why are we still doing it okay well we're we are creating this in a way that you ashin get credit for all of our hard work in development

200and my last point because if you start that way if you start with those two points is every single slide you're doing a really good job to basically reinforce look we're getting credit look we're getting recognition for what's already there so this is just like a ploy because you have a short amount of time think about little boxes at Each corner and a little check Mark like a credit Mark like look we get credit for something that's already there and you're going to some of you may be upset with me the only box that's not going to get a little check mark where there's nothing there yet that is of that size is Pleasant Street but this is important because the public needs to understand this is the rest of them there's a little check

201mark we already have a multi family development that the state would be happy with do you see what I'm saying yeah no I I like little check mark little check mark gets you there because then you can shorten your presentation because every slide you were like okay see we're already going to right not on Main Street sure well hold on Main Street but but the 40b is coming so I think you can check that's what I was saying it's coming I think so it's coming yeah it's a 40 otherwise otherwise we would VI well you don't want to check it off because essentially it's been a for your marke yeah but that's like it isn't a deal I don't want just because someone said the application can go forward that's so we could okay so

202forget my little check mark idea because that gets too controversial I I took I took the check mark I mean I get it if it's too controversial that's fine but you to but we you to we're going to get credit for this housing we already have it to reinforce it app sure I mean I think for Main Street you could you could have a a half check mark a a see-through check mark in the sense that there's an application and if that project ultimately is approved I agree with 10% because yes it's a project right it was in front of us at 200 units right now it's we are minimi we we we we're zoning it for 15 units well under what this well under what's being proposed well under what's being proposed and well

203under what the planning board reviewed and so whatever goes there is going to have housing at a minimum of 15 units per acre so I see I I agree with an saying a half check mark just little like one of these little suckers the whole idea is there's an application that's pending correct there's an application that's pending that's under review an application under review and you can tell the public there's a check mark where there's either a An approved application or an application under review we haven't I thought the state did essentially yeah well well he did is the one you rejected they did they did submit an application upon review there was missing elements so I rejected it okay but but they are it's in the process it's in the process I think okay

204how about we say how about we we say the word in or we say no I I'm not saying it's a done deal I'm trying to give the public a visual that there's certain certain districts here where there's either a permanent project approved or it's in progress It's under review maybe the word under review is the right thing so you could have a little see-through check mark but I think the public needs that quick visual because slides can be important important in a visualization I mean I don't know because you have one slide at a time and and I I guess when I'm but do you see what I mean like a little yeah no I I think this is the only one and and as as controversial as Pleasant Street is it's important to

205be transparent about the fact that that's the only one where it's a blank one for now but the rest of them we are getting credit the rest of these districts there's credit being done so the public is coming into the presentation understanding why are we here because the state cares why does the state care about housing next to MBTA and guess what Ashlin you've done a great job already look at look at the fact that these these districts you already are on your way you've met the requirement so whatever we're requiring of you to approve tonight you're basically already de that that's your presentation yeah of the first little bit faster for the distance what about the I mean like I I feel like this is like the meat of it I can't that right

206I like a lot bigger I like that slide I like that slide I thought it was a very informative slide but the rest of the slides I I think people are lay people are going to be glossy glossed over a little bit so there has to be thinking any of these we we could I think we can or if they can't read it on the if they s back and can't read it can we do that like yeah you know I think we can oh yeah maybe um I think we could like like this one if you Pages what happen with this other details yeah so those two things could be a part of this is what you're saying yeah QA yeah like um yeah so do a Q&A and put obviously this in format

207it and have a double sheet so you just one thing off and it's one it's double sided and then you can slip that you know the to the to the you know when you Walky get a warrant you a warrant yeah but typically there's you get the warrant and then there's other handouts that you can ex hand but like we can put we can put the the just the purely information sides these and the other requir the other it can be contained on one page it doesn't have to look the slid be stapled stapled into this um I I've just related to that so A thank you for all the efforts because I think it was a lot from several people who are doing it um the select board was supposedly doing some kind of

208thing and it may have been this MBTA and 40b but I said make sure they that we're not duplicating that's this this is oh that was from the board yeah this is from the SL board okay and so again I went through it and uh yeah it's all yeah so it's a it's by now a collaborative effort to make sure that I just want to make sure because I found out and I said please and they said they were going to get in touch with you yeah so that's what this is so that again I don't really really want to get I I'm sure questions will come up about about 40b but at least there'll be some information but also there a question maybe the the title of the this thing yeah this gets confusing

209you almost need to like gray out the 40b and just no but I'm saying quick comparison between NTA and 4 if I just why do I care about EXA MBTA commun is not the same as exactly y MBTA is not 40b it's not the and then okay now I understand why I'm comp okay okay okay yeah that makes sense because otherwise it's kind of saying vote for MBTA not 40b no exactly I don't want both yeah right right okay well that was any does anyone anyone else make any notes or I mean I don't think it's helpful to talk but I did put some times where you ended them but they were like I'm looking at 11 so when you got to the when you got to the SE the subd districts they they went

210pretty quick they were about to like um 11 11 minutes 20 seconds to 12 minutes 36 so like they were about a minute I don't really need to I don't really need to I I shouldn't say like I mean I have it printed the size of the Acres I shouldn't I shouldn't say that right it's on the slide how many acres each one is I agree with that and I think you can kind of summarize and say I'm about to go through how many The five subd district five subd districts highlight a few and just be aware that the majority of those I think the majority what we're approving is actually what you just yeah with what said at the beginning is like we're going to go you're getting credit The five district that were

211created with the objectives of taking credit for what has yeah uh the the data is there and I'm going to read the first one as an example then you can get the other through or you could go through all of them but not need to explain each one I think you just need to summarize I'm about to show you the five districts that meet these requirements yeah you'll see a little corner check mark that will show you where we're getting credit check and maybe focus on one is an example like I think a good one to show them might be um well I think the Cirrus would be a really good one because Sirrus isus is the Keystone that's the best example I would almost through what I would do is I would go through

212a through e boom boom boom boom did you all see the check mark let me show you one of them let's go back to slide a and show you how this works use Cirus as an example what do I mean by a little credit well we build this thing and look it's already there what are the chances of somebody tearing it down to build something of higher density like probably unlikely here we go you know what I mean like check mark we get credit for it under this particular version that would be I mean you don't do that way but that way Cuts your presentation down they can still read every slide get point so there's no reason to under there's no reason really to go and understand hey it's this under current zoning and

213now it's this like that's it's too much detail I me I think the slides are good so I would I think would change slides okay very technical what we doing like it's helpful for us it's helpful for the S board but the Public's perspective is like world is this what's the bottom line what's the bottom line of what I'm agreeing to what in the world is it it's housing that's yeah but don't remove what you have in the slide right it's helpful information they should read it right okay if you use one slide to explain what it means they can make the conclusion about the rest got it actually because you start single time going to lose their yeah I was getting bored with myself just be like and I would just literally copy slide

214a and make it right under e so as you click through you go a b yeah to back to a like I'm going to walk through my five slides and come back to this first one and use it as an example like you don't have to go backwards I see what you're just double it up book It book some like you're making a point like State wants this we got credit I'm going to show you the little slides with the credit bar and then I'm back to that first slide to sort of educate you how to interpret it look at us we get credit we're done like so I have on the actual town meeting I mean related to this like there I would be shocked if there's not lots of discussion right and that's

215what town meeting is for anyway so that is I mean I guess it might be coming to the working group or might be at select word but if someone doesn't say I have a question for the planning board how is how is that going to be directed and to who I assume it's going to mostly come to me because I'm going to be standing I'm going to still I'm not going to be sitting down I'm going to be at the mic ready to answer any questions but there will be some if anything comes up about a 40b I'm letting Michael or Peter will take it myself Michael and Lisa me Lisa me will be here on Tuesday night uh I'll be there close to the microphone I'll probably be sit I'll probably sit right now

216next to be are the good time to go back to like if people live next to one of these districts then you go back to that slide right yeah and you can explain it more rather than doing so so and I'm thinking though I'm just trying to make sure it goes as smoothly as possible um so like when people came to the planning board last year they said so what about infrastructure and oh my God it's in the paper right now about drought and please don't take as many showers that really came out okay and what is this going to do and I you so that that was one of the ones I took out of the uh of of the frequently asked questions because I'm like this policy yeah this no no I'm just

217trying to prepare you or how are they Fielding that question that question would probably go to Michael you know but that's not my per that's not my purview right that's outside of my yeah thought the perview of the NBTA Zing no no I know I'm just trying to ask the questions to be like so it goes smooth if when these questions will probably be asked they were already asked once yeah so I don't know if um Adam will direct it to back to me but if he does I'll be saying that's not a question for me Michael can you take that questionare or Peter can you take that question or yeah we we did have quite a few like that and that's what I I but a few like that I mean maybe they were

218doubled up but like I said the Anna had about 15 questions that she wrote down and I I mean some of them I combined but I want to say maybe there was three I took out that this just maybe give those to Peter to review with Michael because those are probably the ones that the Public's GNA ask yeah I'll review those the original thing that you did yeah no I have the original item that I did and went through it and we can kind of go over it and I'll mention it to Michael and I'm sure we'll meet on Monday and Tuesday leading up to the meeting okay well this is really helpful thank you to if you have amount of time I think you know your turn I think taking out reuse and putting

219in those two words the credit or recognition yeah and yeah it is the public infrastructure and that's what the whole if you go back to the purpose of the MBTA law you know it's kind of like you got to go back and get the direction from that yeah my brain is starting to fail and I've had a migrant this whole meeting so I think all we have is meeting minutes I don't I don't think we need to do anything else tonight I know I just want to give you a before the meeting wraps up um we did get an application for cell tower updates antenna updates at 400 Cedar Street just to give everyone the heads up on that I think everyone's been through those before um and so that was a we did that

220for different company yeah we moved one off the top to the side remember now this is just a replacement of antenas that are on the side with new antenas yeah it's you guys know the drill uh just give everyone the heads up okay so first meeting minutes is from September 18th so this was when we had oh this was the joint this is a joint meeting uh that the plany board had with the select board um and it was for for the excuse me it was for the um goon doing the comp plan presentation to the select board so it was a Wednesday night I believe um but I think some of ever I think some Andor most joined via Zoom um but it was at the select board meeting I don't think I okay

221I think I know check I'll double check I know you're reading it and you're like I know I remember okay this was a um this was a week I remember there was a lot of night meetings CU I remember then the following Thursday we had a compant meeting I know it sounds like you Mo motion to adjourn I did that's what it says yeah I'll double check I'll double check on their meeting was the meeting it was a meeting on their meeting I to the one that was there it doesn't feel like you were there you I wish I wasn't there I'll check I check the film but you were powerful okay I was confused okay say and then the other one just so we can do them both at the same time the October

22224th is that's the public hearing right correct I was not up correct yeah that is the public hearing so or watched whatever yes on page two of that one line 46 you might want to just that equal sign is oh yeah I'll take care of [Music] that it was funny watching the video and you guys are like oh my God there's all these people here you you're all like I just I just was so prepared I just figured oh there'll be the same three people here and you know it's all right could have been worse awward tension in the beginning like well you know I saw these people watching I saw people in the I saw people in the parking lot and I was thinking to myself oh I wonder if there's some kind of

223an event tonight that people are going to they were all they were all coming into come on in well these people jumped on the zoom meeting I'm sitting here like whoa is going on right now we were a little naive yeah at least I was I'm putting up defences oh man good times okay so ready should I make a motion on yeah I'm ready um I make a motion that we approve the September 18th 2024 minutes and the October 2024 minutes with the small edit on the October 2024 minut I'll second it and a roll call vote andest I Marcel I Katherine Jers I and Trisha Kendall I very efficient do we need to do anything else this we make a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn I'll second it Anki I

224Marcel I Katherine jerse kend I let's get out of here oh yeah it's moving ahead uh yeah let's move it ahead I have no I have no Haven seen I think they were trying to I think it's for