Planning Board: September 12th, 2024

001e e excuse me the the record for the Ashlin planning board this is Thursday September 12th 2024 and it is 7:18 p.m. and we're going to call this meeting to order and we will begin with the clerk's report I will add that our chair Trisha Kendall is running a few minutes late so we're going to take our agenda slightly out of order and we begin as always with the clerk's report thank you the planning board has received four correspondents from the public since the last planning board meeting thank you Kate and we now will have a brief public comment what we tend to tell the public at this point is that later on today we have other agenda items including the Chestnut Street project and so if your comment is about an actual project coming

002later in the evening please wait for your public comment at that time but if there's general public comment this would be the time and Peter do we have any public comment online currently we have no uh public comment online uh at this current point and is there any public comment in person Mr Mar donon is making his way to the microphone thank you 119 Main Street next door to the town hall I want to ask I know you got currently M agenda's coming up I I want to ask is the Z content going to be the same or be changed in the middle well the zoning contact for the MBTA zoning bylaw will be overlay District spread across um um spread across the proposed districts so it's going to be one overlay District so what's

003in the zoning code book is going to say what it's going to be for this so what's in the zoning today will remain and then what will be added is a MBTA overlay District I also know by email be a public form H for this next that is correct it's not hybrid actually entirely on zoom and that's going to be held uh next Monday um October excuse me September September 16 e September 16th at 7M via Zoom um that's on the calendar and it will appear tomorrow in the town manager's newsletter um but yes thank you Mark as always is there any additional public comment okay okay do you want to say anything okay for the record that's how I feel every time I'm here hi Paul FL from Upton originally from Ashland but I

004own the property adjacent to the 61 Wy Street project um I just want to make sure that uh everyone knows that we are not opposed to the project because we know that housing is something that's coming and everyone needs it um but as it's proposed right now there's a f story apartment building 25t away from an existing residential home which seems unfortunately that's what the zoning is when the zoning was changed I was at a meeting here I didn't want it changed I wanted to stay residential but the planning board at that time kind of talked me into it and they said you don't need to worry we're never going to let someone build a large property without having some sort of buffer so I just would like to uh go on the record saying

005that you know I think that I I know that they're probably working on new changes to the development I don't know but we would like to have a little bit of a a buffer between an existing home that's been there for a hundred years which is uh Apartments now so we've actually had affordable housing there for the past 40 years that I've owned it uh and then my grandmother before that so U anyways I just wanted to let you know and see how things are going I know that's not a subject that's coming up tonight so um the planning board because we don't have it on our agenda we can't discuss it in detail but what I will say I believe you're referencing the 40b project that's proposed right next door which the planning board

006did provide public planning board comment to the state and I would certainly encourage you to reach out to Peter after tonight and he can update you as to where that is can I have a second sure so just to make note Paul actually came into town hall and him and I have talked and actually uh I've connected with Paul we've talked about the situation um that 40b um is still up at Mass housing you know along with the 10 60 um 40b uh but with that Paul did write me an email as an abutter I then forward that on to the select board and to Mass housing CC and Paul and so I was able to connect Paul and Mass housing um and so just to make note of that and make it clear for

007the planning board that Paul and I have discussed project great and I think procedurally any any further news on this is there more efficient way for me to find out what's going on you know like you know right now there is none you know it's still within Mass housing's hands in their jurisdiction um I do not I do not I don't know what their process I don't know their processes uh is well enough to say what they will and will not do uh what they will do um is either they're going to issue a denial to the applicant and or they're going to issue what's known as a eligibility a project eligibility letter if the project eligibility letter is then issued then that allows the applicant to come in and file with our zoning board

008of appeals once that happens all then we the town will have to send notification to all the butters within 300 ft um and go through the processes of Mass General law uh however like I said last time Paul you stay in touch with me and I'll keep you updated you know on a you know on a weekly and monthly basis so you got it any additional public comment and with that we'll close the public comment the next item on our agenda skipping over number four will come back to ches Street once our chair is here we're going to move move on to the MBTA zoning any update Peter at this point uh MBTA zoning we're we're still working hard on it you know I think we have a good game plan we had one public

009forum we're going to have a second public forum this upcoming Monday night uh as Mark uh nice kindly uh promoted um at 7 o'clock on the 16th via Zoom um hope anybody can attend uh it is going to appear in the town manager uh weekly uh newsletter tomorrow um and then we're going to kind of move on uh and then we're going to actually move not move on but we're going to move to we're I think we're going to have a joint public meeting with the select board um which is on the books um to to to talk about this and then we are going to uh hopefully um congeal around the plan and then you know move forward and and have public hearings right now the planning board as slated will host uh a

010public meeting starting in October um you know to hear the the bylaw as proposed for fall town meeting which is um I believe scheduled for an excuse me for looking at my phone yet again um November 18th I believe it's going to be on a Monday um night at the high school okay and so it was going to be a Wednesday but it was moved to Monday I have a question on timing so if we have a public meeting in October is there um and so someone comes with a good idea that the planning board likes and it's a change is that going to be too late to make a change at a town meeting warrant because I know you it cannot be done on town meeting floor so I just I think it it

011all kind of depends on what the change is you know it's kind of a hypothetical so but I think we have to be transparent if it's basically we're having a public hearing but you can't change it I I think we have to tell people that if if we if unfortunately the window is not going to be able to allow changes before town meeting it seems like information more than well um the informational will be the public the public forums that one we've already had and then obviously this upcoming Monday night so when we get to the actual hearing is it is it in it seems to me it's likely not in a window that there could be a change suggested by the public that could get acted on before town meeting so when we do

012the meeting with the select board on the MBT zoning is that a public meeting yeah yes it's a public meeting so that will be the Public's opportunity in theory to provide comment in theory so as long as we maintain the MBTA on our agenda as a planning board we can in theory address changes sooner than the October event and I think then that should be publicized because that might just let me make sure I'm actually saying it right I think we're meeting with the select board we're meeting with the select board correct and that will be a public meeting where all of our meetings are public meetings and we always take public comment we always take public comment and we'll take public comment at the public hearings for the mbta's zoning bylaw however from a

013procedural standpoint when you adopt a bylaw the planning board has to typ has to always hold a public hearing so that public hearing for the bylaw adoption is slated to be on October 10th right to respond to Kate's Point what are your are you trying to say Kate that if we only have one event which is the select board Mutual meeting with us and then another event where the really we we have a very small window to hear and actually make changes maybe that's what I'm trying to find out what what is that window and I believe if we are having our first public Hearing in October we probably could not address any substantial changes to still have it on town meeting warrant I would say the word substantial yes you know I think for

014public comment the time is now you know the time was you know from the public for you know leading up to the public forum number one having the public forum number two at on Monday night having a public meeting with the select board about this you know the window is now will the town manager newsletter make a comment about the meeting that we're having with the select board on the MBT zoning and if so can we add something about how that's an important venue for the public to comment so I as far as timing I don't know I guess I'm asking in theory it's been in there it's been in here it's been in the newsletter every week every week correct that like a update on MBTA zoning is yes does that address your concern

015Kate I'm just trying to figure out what we want to what are you asking as a member of the public if I came to a hearing I would I would think that I would be able to influence and and I believe if in October it will be minimal chance you want more focus on the fact that the last point of influence might be would does the of the think that's important to I I just don't understand what's being asked I'm following Pete's um rationale I think the public has had plenty of opportunity and still has opportunity to come and thinking that you're going to come with a great transformational idea last minute is not a right way to do anything um I think every all these meetings are public and it's been yeah discuss whoever

016is waiting should not wait that's kind of my feeling on it because we also had multiple public hearings in the spring like we we' had like been for lots of yeah we've had two open public forum between the spring deliberations and these ones and obviously like there's a different iteration of it now for sure but that's been there's been one public forum on it already that's been super publicized there's another one coming and I think um well again like the select board is another opportunity so I think from where we sit today there are two more substantive opportunities for the public to weigh in meaningfully and I I agree with Marcelo that like if I think it's been very widely publicized that this is going you know something's going to go forward at fall town

017meeting and so thinking that you would come in October with like a earth shattering change I think would be no but to the best of my knowledge we don't actually have have all the partials picked so I think it's what what you consider substantive change I mean that's still open so so but I think like talking through the options and ideas is happening at the forums and at the public that has been happening for a while so so here's the the good news the good news is we've had lots of public hearings or moments we'll have a few more it sounds like we can all take responsibility to individually let our constituents know that if they want to contribute they should be doing that ASAP in many ways and then the other thing I'll say

018is there is always a risk that somebody will come up with a great idea and this is not going to pass a town meeting and I think we all knew that and know that and so it's not that I'm excited about that I think I had a lot of concerns about it and if it happens we're going to have to deal with it and hopefully not be um penalized if you will by the state and my the last thing my last thought on it is like the world of options like the there's there are various permutations that are available but like the world of options has been pretty widely known and like hasn't changed a whole lot at least like from when we've been talking in the spring until now like the P the last

019public forum this one coming up on Monday the selectboard me we'll be talking about sort of the same stuff that was talked about at least at the prior public forum correct a couple weeks it'll be in addition to the prior public forum and how it's been kind of worked out and what's been looked at obviously from a number standpoint from an acreage standpoint from a parel ID you know it's so could someone come up with like an earth shattering permutation of that like potentially but like I I also think to your point about like I think the the realm of like available options is has been known and is out there I would concur and and also this is in for you know I did write up a blurb and I put it into the

020town Pages which is actually a print which is going to go out early October um and so that is also going to alert everybody uh within the print form of planning board public hearing on the 10th okay anything else on on this particular item and we are now moving on to the draft checklist for application status and Peter I did not see at least not in mine so I just left it on this I left it on and obviously this is something that Kate's been working on uh and so I did not put anything there was nothing new to add okay oh was it the checklist for the status this this was the this was the detail checklist that you know what I think we accidentally may have Alo may have accidentally removed that's okay

021yeah I'm hoping that we don't just keep looking at us checklist and we start some things so that would be my cheerleader for that I think we should continue to keep it on the agenda and obviously start to do some work on it and uh I would be more than happy key to uh actually produce what I promised I think we had a on the sheet I believe we assign names I think um maybe we can find it I have a piece I do have so the items that have my name on them um I'm more than happy to commit publicly to some sort of informal deadline of a draft of some kind of a memo of some sort um if that just so we can move this along and feel like we're actually making

022some kind of progress so I can just because I think it's appropriate we were talking about the I took a rough stab of order of queue of importance MBTA zoning which we talked about the tree bylaw I think we I got the sense people were sort of excited but I have not been able I think the sustainability committee took kind of for the summer anyway and having her back um so accessory dwelling units and I believe that's on our agenda um I put below that accessory dwelling unit as affordable housing sub so we don't confuse the so I'm doing some research on that and then um Airbnb shortterm rental B which I think kind of those three go together um Zoning for downtown hotels we know who that's me um the bylaw review so there

023was just a lot we we find discrepancies or conflicts or repetitions in consist that really take us more time in making decisions so do we know who committed to that um well we never did that so we we should kind of with DEA and Trisha not being here yeah Trisha I mean Trisha definitely said she has like a list in her mind of them that she wants to like that she knows from being like yeah I asked her about that but she said she kind of just as she gets to it so she didn't want to what I can do the next meeting that we have is September 23rd and I'll be I will be out of the country so I'll be missing that one and the 26 I'm missing so for October 10th I

024can commit to having some kind of memo or notes on the three items we mentioned a little bit of research on uh examples of communities that have been able to create protocols to use Adu to count towards affordable I can do some research on that um the Airbnb thing I can attempt to bring some examples of how communities have drafted zoning and the same for hotels the hotel one is easy because our zoning essentially says no to hotels and the change would be striking like it's allow so that one is easy and I literally was going to reach out to Peter and sort of draft it and say did I miss the word Hotel anywhere else um so I I can publicly say for October 10th I should be able to make some movement on

025that and at least bring a memo to the board that kind of says hey here's a summary of where I am and then the board can react to it does that suffice Kate for now can um follow up with as clerk to Trish to add these specific things as a um it's accessory dwelling unit affordable housing of accessory Airbnb short-term related and downtown hotels okay okay and I'm sending that to myself as a as a the trigger for me so I don't forget to do it okay the I think uh so we had this is skip the B well we talked about there's just that could be ongoing bylaw updates um site plan review timelines updated be the same at special permit timeline and I know some Peter BR and would be helpful and that

026doesn't seem like that would be super hard to change yeah I think just that in my eyes I think that's just matching up to both like the the special permits follow can follow chapter 48 site plan review doesn't even exist in chapter 4A of M law so we have a different timeline and so I think it just makes sense that we link up and we kind of make it the same uh in both uh and just Mak note I know we talked about edus excuse me adus um and I know it's one of the do we want to move on to the next topic are we done with the checklist um I'll I'll you know what I'll make my note maybe wait I'll make my hold on I just do well yeah it's I got

027a section meeting with people and one design review so the last meeting we said we probably should try to have I did reach out to them and they are going to get we I have a meeting with them Monday already set for 8:00 p.m. I don't know where they'll tell me that was delegated to me by Trisha and I will be meeting with them next Monday so maybe that covers we don't need a whole I will I will send a memo because the next meeting I'll be missing I'll send Trisha memo about that meeting and there can be a report that way from me um historical Commission because I think they're working on historical district there's a local historic district so I think they had asked to meet with us so maybe no we met

028with them will the here yeah and I don't know we're working on it and they will come back okay maybe and I can I would just add that I know the historical commission met with the local business owners in the downtown last week so I know the local historical commission is working to make to meet with folks regarding that topic so Kate I know you reached out to sustainability who has not responded do you want to reach out to the historic folks for an update if sure is that something that the board is comfortable with so that we have some progress on that just find out where they are then I'm just kind of scanning things I think were um well we can just pick away each meeting but I think for for this timeline

029pet like can we tentatively say Springtown meeting we're going to try to clean that up the timelines of the um special permit yeah so I'll just start keeping this up today I think spring time meeting would be appropriate and I think that's probably sort of you because it's just you know what yeah it's me I'll take it I'll take it I'll take control of that and there's one thing I do want to add to this and just this is me just adding to the list is that uh for the um excuse me Charles River flood plan um they're coming out with some new flood overlay districts and so we're most likely going to have to update our flood overlay district and just accept those at town meeting it's update to our bylaw our flood overlay

030District bylaw but it in they this happens from time to time last time that we did it was 2017 um in Ashen is's actually two watersheds we're in the conquered subur asbit Watershed and then also we're in the Charles River Watershed and so we are going to have to update our Charles River Watershed um at this uh town meeting annual town meeting not this one is that state or federal state St it starts at the federal then it filters to the state then the State kind of plugs it into the local communities okay anything else get on the checklist nope okay and so we got through uh Trisha we got through one through six obviously we skipped 100 Chestnut so now we can go back to that item do you want to take over um

031only if you're go for it okay I unless you want me to going either way um okay so sorry everybody um so item four on the agenda is is 100 Chestnut Street facade adjustments and irrigation modification Peter do you want to give us a just a summary of what we're going to be kind of talking about in sure so tonight first I want to introduce the mcdow's Roy and Todd and their architect Michelle Walden with icon arit Michelle Walden with icon architecture so um working with Todd and Roy and the mcdow's um and Bas on development on H cheson Street um obviously the Project's going well and and uh we were out there not too long ago look at siding look at the facad um and just kind of overall taking a look at the

032the major projects um through conversations that we have had um uh it has come up that there has been some minor uh alterations to the facade and these are due to um while talking to the McDonald's and I'll let them obviously tell tell uh talk um is that you know from the plan that was approved from the planning board things had to some minor details had to change due to the floor layout on the inside um walls structural walls um and so that kind of led to some of the window spacing on the outside um and then also there has been um a a need to add a new retail door or secondary retail door at the ground level and that is would give the ability of uh base own development to demise one of

033the sections the commercial uh square foot area and I think that is in building one um and that's just one thing because a couple commercial re tenants came in they didn't like the location of the door facing one way they kind of wanted to fa in the front facing the street so these are just kind of in in interpretation uh through our conversations these are kind of real world modifications uh that are done on all projects you know what projects are approved at one side at at one point are obviously not um the ones you know are actually built in place and so um with that I think in knowing where the project stands and and obviously the great strides that Bas development has made over the course of the summer I thought you know

034it makes sense to come in talk about them and it would give the planning board the ability to kind of learn that yes projects are obviously do not always go as planned you know from the permanent set of you know the the r the renderings that we see um and that they're actually where our problems that need to be kind of looked at and so uh with that do you want to add anything I I just wanted to add that um you know some of it came up and I mentioned this to the board before um because we were out there on site one day starting to look at just the colors I mean for no particular reason just Peter was going out there and invited me to come along I said sure I want

035to come and take a look and there were you know there's just some differences in the building from from the original drawings and um and I thought it would be a good on the one hand we you know we've had had buildings that have come before us that had significant I'm thinking of 128 Main Street that were which I don't think anyone here was on the board at that time but there were significant differences in the way the building looked as opposed to what was presented and so it was something we had to go through and these weren't that way in fact they were very like small things to my eyes um but I thought you know this is something that the board should understand and it should be something that we un we get

036on the same page with as far as um I don't want to say a learning opportunity but it's not that in order to understand what these projects go through from the time we see them at a very early stage to when they actually go into construction and what the role of say Peter and and Doug Scott is in this process um because even on the smallest projects the little projects I do we're making changes up until the clients move in right so um so I thought it would be a good opportunity for us to kind of discuss this as a board um for for future projects as well um so I just wanted to to add that on uh yes so we're going to talk about the facade number one number two we're going to

037talk about the irrigation so it has come to my attention and and through the couple emails that I sent out that um we did have a condition with our overall decision that the applicant would drill a well for irrigation water um since that time and and and please stand if I stand if I I'll kind of talk about it briefly and then obviously I'll let Roy and Todd kind of jump into it but um a well was drilled it was 900 ft deep um which is extremely deep and there was not uh adequate water coming up out of this well um so with that said um we talked about putting in a sistern um underground which would be fed by the well and then that sstn water would be able to be used to irrigate

038the Landscaping however in digging the S the locations uh at the proposed sisters ledge was found and so the mcdows based on development have had a tough time um finding irrigation finding enough water to irrigate the landscaping and so a request has been made uh by the mcdows to to connect to town water for irrigation purposes um with that said um you know all regulations regarding what the town has regarding irrigation would be similar and or the same to the development um but that is kind of a second to the facade so I don't want to put the cart before the horse on on that one so I think that's I think that's a good plan I know mat s over I think you're need to gonna come need to come to the microphone for

039the purposes of the recording and so these are the updated r that I've received from Matt Mara y okay uh so when the projects are presented to the board and the planning submission is put in the project itself at that point is only at about 10% of the way through design um typically the mechanical engineers Structural Engineers other other engineering teams on the on the project are not brought on yet into the project so we're making our best estimate based on experience where the window should be um what the facade layout should be when the other team members are brought on board and coordination begins then some of the windows have to move interior layouts are decided on uh coordinated with all of those other consultants and at that point also the owners are working

040through the commercial spaces with potential retail tenants where they where their entries might need to be how the spaces might need to be divided up uh but as we look through the the documents comparison of what was originally submitted to what is currently there uh the materiality has not changed the color palette is is still the same and the design intent is still um in kind with the original so I guess if there are specific questions I'm I'm happy to address those as as you look through I think you all have packets here and my note just to you know I think just to make note and you can kind of provide some some background that we're looking at two different we're looking at documents but they're the one that we the the the the

041item two which is a-201 that was done in a different software uh yes so the original the original drawings are done in a program called SketchUp which is very very loose uh the the project is then redrawn in a Bim software which is used to coordinate with the other consultants and that's very different um but aesthetic everything is is copied over so the design intent does remain the same so you may look you may see some differences in the way the Shadows are drawn or the way the colors um come through but the original color selection has not Chang from from what was originally discussed okay thank you Ju Just for clarity so a201 represents the original design and SK 2011 the changes is that right I believe I'll see yes that is correct the

042SK logically okay but you're going to have to come to the microphone I'm afraid sure for those people at home who want to hear sorry it's okay uh the other thing to keep in mind is when you look at the overall architecture you look at The Gables you look at the roof pitches you look at the overall roof design that's very much in keeping with the original plans including the colors of the sighting the locations generally speaking the board and batten the lap sighting so I think the general overall look of the building is pretty much what you had originally I think as uh Michelle had mentioned because once you start getting the other disciplines involved some things have to shift a little bit yeah questions or comments from theor no I for a project

043of this magnitude it's definitely not unusual to have changes like that that's just part for the course especially when you deal with retail that you don't I mean they don't have leases ready when they present it so you have to make adjustment to that so I I personally don't have a problem with that and and the changes um I mean I'm trying to kind of um uh decipher the changes uh they seem relatively localized right is that right it's kind of on the corners or um adjusting some windows here and there uh there's one uh that speaks to removal of some um mesh panels that we have on the first floor for the for the parking area that is becoming solid that what why what is that due to is there is there a change

044of of something that we didn't notice because that's something that people will see on the first floor a lot of that stems from when we were doing our original energy model and when we came in with that with the open grates and the cold air coming in with the units right above that unconditioned space we were having a lot of trouble getting the building to meet the new energy codes and energy models so uh you know that was suggested we I did go over that with Peter a year ago uh so we could actually hit those Turtles and meet the energy requirements for the building so you're mechanically ventilated the the gar instead of using the fresh air just being an open garage correct yep that that would make sense uh and what material you

045using for those changes um on the first floor are you using um one of the siding colors that was approved yep it's one of the siding colors and those are built out as fiber cement panels uh with reglets for additional definition there are some windows they real Windows black yeah see seems kind of consistent with what the project of this size would would go through in my view I don't have much of a comment Anna or Kate do you have any comments um I just sort of have a comment that I would like us as a planning board to have a process about what's considered a change um I looked up there's some right around us right Shrewsberry Lunenburg I don't believe Ashland has any rules about what's considered a DI Minimus change but I

046thought this was interesting in Provincetown right so right they have like five or six bullet points but changes so this is you you could go to the town planner or the um Building Commissioner what they've defined as best they can to Minimus changes would be so insignificant as to not be noticeable to persons generally familiar with the original approval and I would argue since you picked it up this this would not be by that definition I'm not advocating for that necessarily my my point being that I don't like it coming afterwards I wish we would be proactive so I'm going to strongly Advocate that we have a process and that we don't have something that's different without it being brought publicly yeah I I agree that's and that's actually one of the reason reasons I

047wanted to make sure this discussion came before the board is because that we should have something both for our comfort level and for the comfort level of the developers to understand where in the natural process of things something is a a change a a whatever the term you use a change of note and whether it's just the normal stuff in trying to to build the building um and the reason like when you said um about me noticing the reason I noticed is that I had the drawings in hand and was looking at the building and looking at the drawings and looking at the the the first time I went up and I didn't notice any different it looked it looked like the spirit of what we had uh approved and it was only because I

048had my architect hat on really looking at it carefully that of course I I picked up things and um and so L led to this this discussion but I I I think that's exactly what I those comments um and notes that you have are are exactly what I thought could come out of not today but come out of a discussion of how can we put this somewhere how can we document this somewhere so that um that in between period that in between stuff it's is more defined so we know when it's something that needs to come back before the board and when if it's yeah it's just the it's it's the normal everyday thing for construction right so I I agree with you so I have a a related question um and I was trying

049to look this up on my phone and I'm going to try to pull up the zoning um the zoning bylaws the the thought I have is this project was a major project for the public we sent out notices people showed up I remember this was one of the larger meetings we had people had a lot to say um obviously we don't send those notices out for this kind of meeting that we have for tonight um however if we consider the change to be substantial and I'm kind of looking at both changes together the water and this in theory there could be one reading of the bylaw that I can read a really tiny little phone which is that you need to file a um a uh request for a modification to the special permit there's

050a fee that we can wave and by doing that in theory you're notifying the community and you have some say from the public right now I'm not I don't think that's the process we're following we we seem to have implied that we don't need a modification to the special permit we don't need notification to the public and the abutters and we're sort of deciding or the implication so far in the presentation is that these are just tiny minor changes I disagree I think that they look significantly different the colors are different I for one believe the original design is more refined I think it looks very different from what the prior design was and I certainly believe water and connecting to public water is a substantial change um so sort of squeezing these together as

051if they're minor makes me very uncomfortable I'm just going to say that for the record I think it's important to understand as they were describing that um these two drawings um come at are done on two totally different programs which have two different color models and so and different ways of expressing detailing so they're not they're not going to look exactly the same I would um you know uh I I've drove P thir today to kind of just take another look at it and it really solidified my view that it really this it looks in the spirit of what we had approved right so um so again you know like how do we um you know I think the point more is how how do we start to Define that for the future so that

052there's kind of this Comfort level on both sides knowing that a project at 10% is not a project at at 100% And um not to overburden our staff about looking at changes that are really in the architectural World quite small yeah I I I agree and and there are changes that are substantial like on massing or Arrangement or really a complete reorganization of the window pattern or the materials that I don't think that's the case here this is more like I said part for the course for what a project of this size means of course in Province Town for example probably using a lot of historical uh houses and so Chang are a lot more minute maybe there's a place in depending on the district and depending on the project where it would be good

053to have a range of consider uh some something that tells us what is a the Minimus change or not I I I agree with Anna one thing that I I I have no problem with the changes I'm an architect so I I I know how this works and and I I feel this is not a substantial modification of the spirit we also saw throughout that presentation everything and 3D and renderings and everything it's very different when you see that and when you see flat elevations it's it's it's this is a drawing that is not very easy to understand for someone that doesn't work on this but the water thing is something that that is different because there is a sustainability component to it that was discussed uh and and I totally understand the rationale but

054they are very different problems and I agree with that and I I didn't comment on that but that that is agree those are this one is the is kind of an aesthetic thing and the other one is is is very different so but right now but because we started to discuss them together I want to be very clear that that that happened at tonight's meeting they got squeezed together as minor and so therefore that was what was said therefore I'm discussing them as if they're together and if if they're being presented to us as a board together then we have to ask the question if these two items together belong on an application to modify the special permit which comes with a fee which comes with notifications of the public which comes with a deep

055discussion and if we're going to separate the two that's fine but that's not how it was presented at the start which is oh these are just minor well I'm going to take the heat for that then because I was asked if we should do one of these in in in uh in two separate meetings anyway and I didn't think that was fair to the applicant's time especially when you know that we should at least be able to to talk about these things and our concerns in the same meeting even though I think there are really two completely different you know aspects of the project so um if that if that's a concern that was on me and it was and it was my call yeah and I think if we separate them out I could

056be convinced by The Architects of the this room that yeah one is more blue and warmer and the other one is less warm and but it's not a big deal I could maybe be convinced because maybe I'm color blind to me it makes a big difference but but I can maybe be convinced on the water I'm not going to be convinced that that's not substantial that's pretty substantial that's public Supply but the reason they had they were having the um the architect speak first was exactly for that reason so that we could talk about that and she could go home to Boston and then we could proceed with the other part so it was trying to be a very clear division of these two things so in keeping with that why don't we continue on

057with any other comments only on the elevations and um I I understand that uh this is a world that that Marcelo and I live in every day and we're happy to try to um interpret that in the same way that we often ask Anna to interpret legal jargon for us so I mean are we asking for a vote vote on on that or CU I I mean if we are going to vote I'm going to abstain we don't have a basis for what we're judging and after the fact I I do not think that's appropriate for us or the public um but I I mean as far as the idea of it I I certainly can default to people um professionals that are saying these are but I they're they're also separate issues for me

058through the chair if I could please um we didn't ask to have these two put together at all matter of fact we're not asking for a change in the decision on the plans we think the plans are frankly a DI Minimus change and frankly we submitted these plants to the planning board a year ago these plans understood and and like I said I I already said it was it was me that put it together I take okay asked me about it I take full responsibility for that I thought they were obviously very separate issues and but I I didn't understand that they might be viewed as one one ticket um so um so I I think I mean I and I I I don't I think there's nothing to really vote on here unless someone

059feels that there needs to be but I to me what this was bringing up is to try to um get to an understanding of something that we should put in our process in our bylaws and I'm not sure where I'm not sure where so that so that this is the no that so that the norm that already exists in the Construction and design industry is more known to the public does that if that make sense I disagree with that I I think that um just like lawyers can disagree about interpretations of law um Architects certainly have opinions that that matter but I think that the concept that in your professional lives this is normal is not necessarily the way the public or the lay person would would interpret a project so um I I think

060we we need to do a little bit more research on that and understand how what is the state law on substantial change um is it architecture standard or lay person standard what what does it mean and so case research is helpful and I think we need to explore that a little bit more because I don't know if the lay person would agree with the interpretation that hey well this is normal for Architects to sort of change these things and therefore it's normal for ashin I don't know the Aesthetics of that is needs to be that regulated or or it is but I I would say that there's a process I don't know Ro you were saying that this was submitted so are these changes consistent with the building permit drawings that were submitted for for

061construction yes yes I we believe so yes and I will say with with the changes yes and I will say these these plans were submitted uh about a year ago and and I think it was at least our understanding that there were ministerial and Di Minimus changes and we didn't think much more after that okay so Trisha just trying to follow up on what you were saying it seems like if what Kate is proposing makes a lot of sense to me we need kind of assist them right we just need to find out what that is it seems to me that a project of of of certain size especially a projects of these size it would be um it would be good to satisfy also what Anna is highlighting that some we establish a process

062by which before submitting for building permit let's say with a certain let's say at um 75% CDs or something like that when when the architect is already has UND understood all the the the conflicts with other systems of the buildings that's totally normal process that they could if there are changes from the approved that they could come and EXP them before they're filed for building permit that would be a process that would say okay we approved the spirit of a project and materiality and massing and what have you and then they they they work the carpentry of it is ready almost ready to go and then they can highlight the changes so that before the C Construction that's all understood seems to me that that would be a process that would be simpler instead of

063having to well I don't think we need to that seems reasonable what's that that seems reasonable yeah I I don't think we need to kind of uh create a a love president or something but it's it because these things are are a process that is I mean getting a project of this size it's very complicated it just takes a lot of time from hundreds of people so it things change I mean that's just the the nature um so so as long as we see it and then we have the chance to say well explain that change more because that's more that meets the eye you know that if you have a good reason then we can have at least one chance to say change it a little bit before you submit fing permit or okay

064we accept but we have that chance so um so are we good obvious to are we good letting them proceed obvious I mean we don't have the obviously the right to shut down construction is is the board okay with these changes and then obviously we will be working in the future toward a little different process about how do how do we look at this further down the road I mean I think we should vote and I I can go with this I'm not delighted but I can go with the changes it sounds like I do agree I I think if this was submitted and the town did not have any argument against it before they give the permit I think it's unfair to say otherwise at this point and on the on the on the

065renderings atic on the aesthetic modications okay does I think we should vote I'm going to stick with abstaining because I mean procedural and process I I just don't feel good about approving something that looks different than what we approved with and I understand that could be considered minimal but we have to do better I think for formality we should take a vote because we should take responsibility this is ours and we are acknowledging it and so I think a vote is important obviously if you want obstain as part of that that's yours but I would feel I believe we should take responsibility and take a vote what does that vote say like that I we I can make a motion that we are essentially supplementing our prior decision to reflect the fact that there is

066a change in some elements of the design and presentation of sk21 becoming the new reality versus a201 that's the motion and then we can this is part of the official decision that we're supplementing our prior vote because we're technically approving this not the prior renderings or we're supplementing the prior renderings that would be the motion I know it's a complicated one I can try that again I I'm good with it okay all right so I'll second that I roll call vote an teski i i Katherine Jers obstain and Trisha Kendall I so like I said I think we continue this in the future so that we have this in place as other projects come through so um okay so then there's the water issue which is different thank you for your time um so the

067water issue I I am not sure uh there there's there's obviously various things uh I'm not sure the the right direction to to go on that or or what the options are I had little back yeah please I'd appreciate that sure yeah I'd love to give a little background how we got to asking you for this sorry AE before we kind of hear from the applicant can we kind of reset us to our jurisdiction and make sure that water is in fact part of our jurisdiction so that we don't misstep accidentally okay but do you have something appro I'm trying to but I think Peter since this is being presented to us not the select board who is in theory the Water Authority for the state excuse me for the town can we just make

068sure that and I'm looking at the special permit and I'm trying to make sure that we can regulate this relative to our project do you have any I believe Peter can correct me if I'm wrong I believe we have jurisdiction together with concom for this type of request because I do not want to be speaking and then have legal counsel slap our wrists a good happen before no it's a good point and if we are not sure that we should not be doing this until we have a memo so I would add this the water and sewer Commissioners are at the select board and I was going to raise that that I do not believe this is under our purview to allow a connection to the public water supply I would like to confirm that

069from legal counsel and so therefore there would be a waste of time frankly to hear from the applicant until we make sure that we're not discussing something that we're going to be found inappropriately to be discussing through the chair here please we have spoken to the water department and the water department is fine with us connecting yeah I think um yeah yeah then I know what you're saying Anna I I think though that while we have them here I would like to UND I would like to take the opportunity to understand the background um since you're here and to to understand how you get to this point so that we're in full understanding of it even though we're not maybe we're stepping back saying it may may not be in our jurisdiction but understanding is

070that's okay for everybody right yes okay thank you very much I appreciate you taking the time to listen to this and hear the background of this request so uh as the decision says that we should use a private well for irrigation of the site we agreed with that and we thought that was a great idea um you know if we don't have to pay for public water private you know that's great so we we went and put a well in 500 600 so we got to 950 ft deep we were getting minimal flow we went and even then fra that well uh to try to increase water flow and it after all that work we were getting 11 gallons per minute which is about a garden hose worth the your your average garden hose so

071you know given that we wanted to do private well we then tried to think of a new design all right what if we uh We've looked at steel pipe going down further so you put a stronger pump doesn't really matter uh so then we looked at putting a sistern in the ground okay if we put a sistern we could have the well pumping constantly to fill that sistern so then when our irrigation system runs we have a reserve of water to use um one of the issues we've come up with was using this method we will not have enough water to run a full cycle and so we're discussing okay if there's not enough water because the well doesn't produce enough during that time period one we probably be running specular systems based on pump

072size almost all day every day um getting Town water to supplement that so we could actually get watering done more efficiently and keep this the Landscaping alive because right now based on the well even with the sistern it just doesn't produce enough water to run the cycles and keep the plant material alive so we we did some exploratory holes just last week and there's both kind of locations near the pump that it could possibly go there's significant amounts of ledge 4et under and these tanks are large they go down about 14t deep and about 15 ft long um and it's become challenge after Challenge from designing a irrigation system with 60 zones which is kind of crazy when you think about it and and we've kind of feel like we've gone every route we can

073and we keep hitting roadblock after roadblock trying to solve this issue we've uh as you know as we designed our site with almost all Native species to reduce the Water Need of those plants we have Eco grass in a large portion in the in the rear area that actually requires no watering um so the the the site is designed with a sustainable uh effort in mind to you put plants that are low water consuming native to the area and even so we're still running into this problem and we we make one comment um so we did look into a 10,000-gallon tank we were more than happy to buy it if it was going to work um we met today again with our irrigation people and they said even if you put a 10,000-gallon tank in

074we'd have to do 60 zones I said I don't care I've many zones it takes he said but here's the problem because the well is only putting out 11 gallons a minute there'll never be enough water to fill the tank and the zones would probably be running 20 to 24 hours a day just because they need so many zones so even if we put in a tank even if we drilled and blasted and put the tank in we would still need to have some form of public water just to have the tank work work otherwise why put a tank in if never going to fill it so a conundrum is if we don't have water plants won't live so we're here respectfully requesting uh if we could use tie into public water does any have

075any questions about this you know again learning opportunity let's gain some knowledge here for questions on other projects I mean it's not really a question for the applicant I I appreciate the applicant's explanation um and I I understand the the challenge they're under I I'm trying to understand our role so that I can properly comment all I I will ask is the board these are questions I'm asking myself which are when we have conditions relative to Landscaping we as a board need to consider whether we have sufficient information clearly we need to consider whether we and the applicant have sufficient information that the special the special condition can actually grow no pun intended flourish flower um landscape right and so that's a question I'm asking and clearly in this context somehow that did not happen

076which surprises me because this is a major project of massive proportion multiple years um and it's very shocking to me that no one connected to this property and I'm not going to blame this particular developer at all because this was owned by other people but it's very shocking to me that the prior owner would have no context for the lack of um what call it proper water pressure water pressure exactly um so I believe that we were blindsided I think these are the kinds of things we should have explored more um and I'm not blaming the applicant because the applicant comes in with some lacking potential access to Prior records Etc so I'm just saying out loud this is a question I'm asking myself how did we miss this we missed this we we allowed

077Landscaping as a condition without thinking through the consequence number two do we have jurisdiction we sort of do and we sort of don't we kind of seem to have it because we can we can talk about impact as you recall part of our permitting discussions we are we are authorized to discuss um things like impact on infrastructure this is why we talk about population and who's going to move in and how much it's going to cost and and we talk about police costs and infrastructure that's part of it so it feels like our jurisdiction somewhat but the idea of plugging it into the public Supply also feels like select board jurisdiction so I I feel like that's a question we need to explore before we can make any decision on this depending on the answer

078to that question we may need to have a formal in my opinion a formal um what's it called a modification of the special permit and and notification to the public all of that because that is substantial if it's ours to deal with per legal counsil so that's question number two and the last thing is more of a which is where I live which is a different part of town neighbors are complaining about changes of water pressure public water pressure changes so our community is growing it is significantly developing and people are noticing an impact on their public water supply whether there's all kinds of controversy about whether we have enough or we don't have enough should we plug into the emergency supply once in a while or the non-emergency Supply but I can tell you

079this is very important to the public and the idea of plugging into public water because we need some nice Landscaping that we the planning board approved makes me really uncomfortable we need to explore that a little bit and make sure we know what we're doing through through the chair if I could um I think Marcelo had a comment yeah know I I mean that that was a lot so I I I don't I I just see it in in a simpler way I think two questions first so are you asking you you you tested the possibility of uh putting a sister you found ledge are you asking to connect without the system or with the system actually think Anna brought up a very good point we're not actually here asking you to let us use

080public water we're asking you to Simply drop the Restriction we'll go through the other Town boards whether it's the uh water department Selectmen whomever it is because I think you're right I don't think it's your place to decide whether we connect to public water but it is your place because you put a restriction that we can't we had to use a well I think if you just were willing to lift the restriction on don't even say we can use public water just simply say we're not restricted to a well and that's totally in your purview and then we will go to it whomever we need to go to that that's the that's the way I was saying I think that that is kind of that's clear to me the way you explained it and and

081because yeah we we we're not going to decide on the things that we don't have to decide question number two did you explore the possibility of har harvesting rain water and connecting it to the system also it would be very difficult now cuz the whole system there's a massive probably oversized system because it's gravel under the parking lot that's a cultech system and everything from the roof drains everything goes into that and because it's such great gravel almost the moment it goes in there it literally dissipates into the into the groundwater so we we actually got on the phone with our Engineers today and ask that question because if that was feasible we'd be happy to do it he just says it's not going to work okay so my comment um was is is it's

082kind of simple so what what we the the the the way I see it the intention of what we approved was uh a project with a with a bunch of sustainable features uh I think somewhere described here um the planting the PBR uh roof ready and everything that that all it was the the intention I think was met on that approval um drilling a well over here or over there I mean once you get into Mother Earth you could find water in one place and none in the other and be like 20 ft apart the same is true with all geological features that you will find I don't think that would be that having one well before would be predictable for for this project in the future so it the process that been described to

083me is makes sense a Justified effort to to do everything you can to make the system work as it was approved seems to have taken place um if um if if if the town or the authorities that deal with water believe that that that there's no issues with it for whatever whatever technical russal they have is um then then what I I don't feel feel the need to be encumbered by by hypotheticals I I think I would be in favor of of dropping the restriction on the basis that that an effort has been made to to a a real life problem that is is the earth sometimes not everything goes perfect but that's not for us to say I think the the water department or the select board would have to make that call I

084I see it as simple as that I I um my perspective is that like to Anna and Marcelo both of your points you know I think we could maybe take for the future a suggestion that maybe we're a little bit more open-ended in those types of conditions and that you know maybe a simple modification rather than even dropping it to modify it to say if feasible if it's not feasible because you know or if geologically feasible like if we could put something in there that covers them now that still has the intention of the original decision and going forward we can sort of know that we can't just say that you have to use well water because we know that it's might not be technically feasible for a project to be able to use groundw

085when they once they start so I mean a very like base modification of just a modifier within the existing condition to say like if you can if this is all reasonable efforts to no that and and and that makes sense but the other wrinkle to this is that for example I have a well in my house for irrigation I think it goes down like 150 ft my my grass is dead because uh because you're an archet not a landscape no it hasn't it's it's a crappy well because it doesn't yield what what I would have liked mine mine is dead too so that's that's why when I bought it the pre previous owner was forced to connect to the town water so my grass is dead I said it again the neighbors especially on that

086on on on that Community were promised a place that had good landscaping for buffer and for visual privacy and it would be silly to have all that die in front of the windows too I mean there there no there would be no point this is why but but rather than just saying oh we are just never going to do that condition again I kind of look at it as the reverse I think that was an excellent condition because what we are saying is whatever Landscaping you do try to do it in your own private well so really to me the responsibility is on the board to figure out is there sufficient water supply to do this privately number one number two is maybe our landscaping ideas were too limited maybe we should have considered is

087there a different way to do this that does not require so much water and we didn't including the rain water concept that is apparently is too late to consider now and we should have considered it so I disagree strongly that the lesson here is oh we should just always allow the potential for public water I disagree with that I think instead for the future we should be asking those questions has there been a study of water supply has there been an understanding of whether this Landscaping can be supported do we have plan be if that's not enough do we have an alternative landscape plan that does not touch public water I I believe we have a a responsibility to try to limit the need for public water whenever we can if it cannot happen we

088should we should attempt to to redefine the Landscaping in this context if this board wants to remove that restriction I would also want to explore can we somehow change Landscaping so we don't need so much public water these are all good ideas and suggestions and I think these actually very beneficial including the earlier conversation about the architecture so we call them in our business Lessons Learned every time we build a project we write a lesson never do that again or this you know what I'm saying so I think these are good points the problem is there is so much plant material in this site um that well would probably comfortably take care of 10% of it so to start tinkering with the planting is almost a waste of time unless you eliminate 90% of the

089planting which none of us want to do we've got a beautiful uh arrai hedge 10 11 fet tall there's 90 of them in a row purely for the benefit of our neighbors it gives them a nice beautiful green screen that takes a lot of water to n water 90 AR rides and and I think the point came out and I didn't even think about it till I think maybe it was Anna that said it we're not asking you to approve us for water we're just asking you would you please lift the Restriction that we have to use a well just leave it like that which doesn't obligate you to anything it obligates us to then go to other parts of the town to see if they will let us connect to public water and I

090think that with the plantings um too uh there's also a difference between planting or watering things so they get established I mean Arbor vites don't need to be watered like to for the rest of their lives right they're everywhere around Ashen and we don't water them gr perfectly f important timeline for planting is the first year exactly I'll give you an example of forget the numbers if if you need 100 gallons the first year the second year you probably need 50 third year you probably need 20 so you can see it goes down because once the roots gets established it starts sucking moisture out of the ground itself but when they're still encased in their own root system they do need water because they don't have that connection agreed and that that was just the

091thing about talking about all these ARB varities as if we needed to water them from now until the end of time which we don't right no we'll be using we'll be using substantially less if we get to use it Town water year two and even less than year three to a point where it's it's quite small and by the way because we've got more drought tolerant plants because if we got ecass we're using a lot less water just by the plan that you approved and eass is what again it's not uh it's just a drought Dr is that what they put on the it's not it's not as attractive as Blue Grass but it suits the purpose but it's green and it and it um doesn't take a lot of water yes we we don't

092want it in our yards but it's green and we're happy with it that was a recommendation from the was it that was a recommendation from the design review I think I I I mean it went through design review I can't I can't um remember specifically I thought it was an original condition from no oh something you added okay yeah yeah so our conundrum is this we we actually have engaged our landscape contractor we're hoping to start doing planting this fall because we hope to occupy the buildings in April and in order to get a c ofo you pretty much get to get most of the project complete and if the planting is not done it's kind of hard to yell this equipment around people leave living in the buildings so we're kind of in a

093tight spot and we're really hoping to do the planting but we can't do the planting till we know we have water and I think I just want to clarify I I was not suggesting that we don't do the condition anymore in the future I think it's information that like we can't just say if we're going to put in a condition that says you have to use a well we can't say that if it might result in exactly this which is an applicant back here two years later saying we can't but I do I do think you can say we'd like you to uh best practices to try and do a well and have them prove to you they actually did it right or have you know we've now heard rainwater we we we can as

094a board have sort of a list of ways that we say we would prefer irrigation be in these manners I personally think that dropping the condition is much and then allowing the select board or whoever has jurisdiction over the water connection is much less disruptive than going back to the drawing board on Landscaping which matter I mean I was not on the board when this project was before but I think I was at meetings where it was discussed and um I I think knowing how just how folks in town in general feel about the appearances of projects like I think nobody wants all of those plantings to be brown and crusty in nine months those are good points I mean I I I could like I said I could I I'm speaking about the past

095I wish we had a time machine and go back in the past I think the tragedy of this is because we didn't ask those questions we can't retain the rain water apparently and we can't consider other options but you comment about that makes a lot of sense though about what about establishing those type of kind of tear for landscaping irrigation in as as as as as like a checklist of things that we want to make sure projects like this are is discussed yep and it's included I wish I had been more pushy about green roofs some buildings in Boston are putting putting Landscaping literally on top of their roofs in part to um Heat cool um address climate change I'm doing one of those you have to irrigate them to establish understood understood but these

096are all things we could have explore that could be Alternatives or things that we did not push because they're quote unquote more expensive well now we're going to be paying for it with public water so the expense the things the developers say no to because they're too expensive end up not being asked for not being pushed for not being considered reasonable and then we need to connect it to public Supply which all of us pay for so um I'm just going to throw that out there I think well public water you mean yeah very expensive very expensive actually it's a lot more expensive the gallon of irrigation than it is for consumption to well not not only that but when you're commercially us you pay a higher rate me payment is not just about who's

097paying the bill but uh the infrastructure the lack thereof ex well that that's for the water department to say yeah yeah so I don't want to use other words so I'm using the word pay but what I will say is I I get the argument and I I don't think we have much of a choice in the matter right now well I think that's I think it's just uh again I don't want to keep reiterating what others have said but it is kind of a something we're going to continue to learn about not um you know in in various projects as we keep doing better as Kate says I think with each project we do better um but with each projects there's also new issues because no two projects are alike and this was the

098first one of a big ones right that we got yeah so and and that happened to come into this this circumstance right so um so I guess the uh yeah the qualification would be to to remove and I assume it wasn't just one and done trying to find one particular spot for a well there was we we spoke to our well people so what about over here because you're right about that what about you said Roy we went down 30 ft hit ledge we went down 950 ft hit ledge he says the ledge is so dense and so hard cuz normally you can get fissures and fractures and water travels he say I could drill Wells all over the place here and get nothing more so if it was a different type of site you're

099absolutely right okay and I also add we do need to be the well needs to be a certain distance from uh sewer lines and stuff like that that's what part of the requirements is right and we have sewer lines all over the place so there's a lot of reasons why believe me we'd rather not here yeah but we're forced with this dilemma yeah I mean I I think like I said it's not it's not the position any of us want to be in but we know that we have other housing coming our way yeah and and I was going to ask about that but do you think Trisha or everybody that uh these considerations are even going to apply on a 40b project well and other projects right I I don't know well I can

100tell you 40b you can't deny them water yeah so why does that matter here this is not a project we're just talking about we're just talking about other large projects that this is just isn't one and done this is like a a big a bigger issue across Ashland and yeah you know MBTA and it's a lot yeah it's a lot so okay so um I guess we're looking for a motion to remove the condition I'll make it I'll make a motion to remove the condition to prohibit the use of um public water for irrigation in a second or do you have a comment I thought we were considering that this was sort of a major change or not in considering the process because I I feel like if anyone in here doesn't know that water's

101a very sensitive issue with people in town right we have a water band and I feel like if if this is the size change that Anna had brought up that that is is a request for modification that we have to strongly consider that to make that a public that and I I would if we did that I would assume a parallel path can be we we should step up proactively and say hey there's an applicant in front of us and we really think it's probably a water and sewer commissioner that I'm not trying to slow it down I understand the concerns but I also feel like this has to be very public so so I guess it's also been talked about that we're not sure um where some of the responsibilities lie and that we

102should I think we're pretty confident that we can't say sure connected to public water that's definitely not our purview right we know that that's fine I think we figure that out together so so do we need input and information from any other bodies about the directions we have to go because if they I think the only Direction we're being asked to go is remove the restrictions so that the applicant can then go to the select board and ask for the permission yeah I that's reason I see the way I see the way and is explaining it because basically the process starts when the Restriction is removed so that publicly they have to go to the other bodies in the town and ask for that your question is is removing the Restriction a substantial enough modification

103that there should be the process that and put forward I agree with that it is and the reason it's it's important is and and I'm sitting here and I'm thinking okay if we if we reopen this well no pun intended there's going to be a well no pun intended of public attention and and so or maybe intended um I think we need to focus the public that this is the only issue we're discussing we are not talking about anything else and that we don't have control over the decision of whether or not the whether or not it's used and the benefit of that notifying the um the folks who live there and giving them that chance and I would want the notice to be very specific that we are only discussing lifting that one restriction

104so that any further decision is made by the select board that should be very very clear so that we don't reopen an entire process so what would be the two choices that what would be the choices that the public would be discussing either we remove that restriction or we remove vegetation from the we change the landscaping or we remove vegetation we do other things we don't have to invent that it's up to the applicant he made a simple proposal I I would like you to remove the Restriction I don't think you have to say invent redoing the Landscaping yeah if I can make one comment I don't see this as a a major change I actually think it's a minor change in the reason being is if you just simply lift the Restriction we're in

105limbo you haven't allowed us to do anything we have to now go to other boards yet to be determined who they are to see if we can get public water it it it's not really a responsibility yours the only thing we're asking you to do is simply lift a restriction put us in limbo you know if the if if whatever board we goes to if the neighbors want to talk to them let them talk to them let them let them come to the select man or water commit whomever it may be so I don't really think it's so much in your purview is you're allowing it to be in someone else's perview Peter what is the precedent on this so from my history right I would say this would fall into the category as a

106minor modification and it would not need public notification you know going back you know not in any projects I've really had to deal with here but in other projects whenever there's a major modification yes then and I agree I know we're talking to talk about processes right and and I'm happy to do that and then a lot of other towns they kind of highlight what requires a whole public notification what doesn't you know I think in many instances if if a project proposes additional units from what was proposed then yes you're going to go back out and do a whole notification process after that hearing is closed I think in my eyes that yes this is a fairly uh uh it's it's minor it's you know I think we've talked about this a lot I

107think the applicant has proven uh beyond the reasonable doubt that they've exhausted their Avenues to put in a well and there's there's cons to that right and there's the and and so with that you know in my eyes I would say this would does not qualify for full public hearing uh to reopen a full public hearing to do all advertisement um and and which is a big effort on its own and I think I that's where I land as a town planner and I think what like my perspect I agree and I think my perspective is so I think the applicant stated it nicely we're like we're not agreeing to anything we're just revising a condition that was not as it turns out hindsight's 2020 was not possible to be met so we're just editing

108a requirement that is it is not possible and I I think in that way that makes it that assists in the reading that it's a minor modification right like we're not I also think that uh it's our job as an elected board to make the kind of calls that happen on these projects like this that we have these public hearings they're open for obviously any issue that comes up but when other things come up in process I think it's our job to handle those things not to open it up again to say hey we're going to take another big vote we have been elected to this role and it's our job to to figure it out right not to throw it back always on the residents they they've asked us to do it that's our

109role in the planning board right otherwise we can just do a Google Poll for for everything out there right but we can't we have to take the responsibility and figure something out sometimes you take some heat for that and sometimes you don't that's where I that's where I land I totally agree I think we're here to exercise our judgment on items that are but you have to remember this is a special permit there's only four of us here today who can vote on that right we don't have Deepa here so I I think we have to be cautious to that as well because if Kate and I have one View and the two of you have the other that's not going to really go anywhere today so I with all due respect I don't think

110we're sending anything back to the public I think I think the position I'm taking and I believe Kate is taking and with all due respect to Peter I don't remember any project in Ashland where we have had to come back to deal with public water supply so on the one hand I can be easily convinced tonight that the proper course of action is to lift this restriction I can vote that that way in a second however I also agree with Kate that this project is sensitive this project was one that has a rich history in this community of sensitivity and controversy and there are reasons to allow the public a position of understanding that the beauty that we are requiring is going to require this particular Factor mitigation that's required and there's a beauty to

111that and and with all due respect I don't think we're somehow not doing our job in making sure that the public is correctly informed I believe that is our job but through the but this is a public this is a public hearing this is not a hearing but it's a public meeting if you if you look at our agenda I don't I don't believe the agenda that was posted adequately gives the public notification that we're being asked to lift a restriction relating to public water but I was still talking this agenda does not give the public any idea we're going to allow that I think we're just keep the ponds of water seems to me that this is more like making a storm and a glass of water because we are uh it's a very

112specific condition of of of of the reality after everything has been exhausted to meet that requirement on on on the on the condition the the sensitivity of the project and everything is something that everybody dealt with and yeah I know the the the Covenant we deal with that that was a lot I I I I I seriously doubt that the that the the community immediate to this project or at large would be uh would really have a care of that item more than removing the landscape or having it die it just it's not reasonable why don't we why don't we do this oh do you have one more I have a compromise that might work but okay well let's hear those two things and then know no I I think like the building is there

113right regardless of the sensitivity like I think opening my perspective is that opening it up in that I don't think I'm not saying avoid opening it up because we don't want to wade back into that that's not what I'm saying but I think it is a minor change to a condition that is was never feasible it wasn't feasible When It Was Written in we just no one knew it so my my perspective is if we take the I think extremely conservative approach and require a formal process and open it up to the public I don't think the I don't think the conversation is going to be necessarily constructive or get a like to marcelo's point like what what is the the other alternative a dirt desert out there nobody wants to drive by that on

114chest Street every day so I my perspective is that this is our job all we need to decide today is minor not minor and and then move forward and my perspective is that it's minor and I I know that I'm not voting here tonight but that's my both I have a compromised position and I mean I could I could vote to approve this with the understanding that um I I don't want to leave it a mystery as to who they're going to go to I think we need to be very blatant that that we believe this is within the purview of the select board to address whether or not they get public water um and that we would want them to also explore whether concom has jurisdiction if those two things they're willing to do

115they're willing to go to the select board and ask and they're willing to go to concom and make sure that this is not somehow within their view I could vote for it tonight because I know that if that happens there will be public vote at the or public participation of the select board where I have another I have another uh potential way of of of doing it what happens if if we do both at the same time because I think we're more at the end of the day in agreement that we are not if if if we remove the Restriction but at the same time Peter I don't know if I'm not talking about uh uh uh like a legal notification or anything but is there an Avenue on on the town website or or

116through email or whatever to spread the word to the residents or whoever to say the project is going through this process they will be attending other other boards whever the the water department the select board whatever be aware if you want to to go and and make your voice heard is is it is there a way to do that and we do it at the same time it would be the select board's agenda right cuz like our says irrigation modification which like to be fair it's not explicit that like the modification is going to require Town water but it's there I mean if anyone like this was a hot button project 100 trust not's there it's on the you know there's not it's not like it was buried it's item four I I but that

117if it's it's not the modification anymore when it's a select board right that's that's the tie-in through the chair the I think that Peter go ahead Peter want you go first I I think we're talking about the Conservation Commission the select board we're kind of moving things around I think the jurisdiction of who is allowed to connect to town water is the water in the DP the DPW overall right and the water in sewer super attended right um I'm happy to email the conservation agent I'm happy to email the select board and yet tomorrow right and ask if there are any concerns if there worries or if there's any red flags to this modification of this change and then they kind of vet through those red flags or issues at arise um in that in

118that sense Peter I I like Anna's idea except that I would make it a little different rather than saying what's specific specific boards maybe say uh with the understanding that the applicant will go to the appropriate boards for approval for water connection because I'm not sure if it's the water department the Selectmen and it may be combination of all the above but whatever it is we all know we're not going to get water until the appropriate people approve it I I can care with Roy uh you know I think I'm happy to vet this through and and take this through with the the developer but the first concern is lifting the restrictions so we can start that process we got that so so I guess are people comfortable with lifting the Restriction with um caveats

119about going to the appropriate board public notification of that process or is this something we need more information on and it needs to come back to us in two weeks to make a further step on it I mean I think it's a little of both but there's so like to me this ends up being like another technical review right we are not we don't we have plenty of information the applicant did a good job saying I don't think this is going to work we don't have any Town information right so I think there's lots of possibilities I wish this was not written this way cuz that's part of the uncomfortable about trying to vote on this this like that being well described um but I think there's a potential solution for a vote but it's

120very messy all right so there's bugs flying around I'm not losing my mind um the notice that we gave for tonight kind of sucks I would feel much more comfortable uh without it with a better one however I I do I don't think we need I don't I'm not we need expertise to lift the Restriction I think we have enough to lift the Restriction what I'm more concerned about is whether there's sufficient process relative to the public Etc I would be comfortable with the proposed language I like the idea of Peter reaching out to the select board in concom and I very much like the idea of some sort of public notification whether it's through the town manager newsletter or a notification on the town website that the plan board Has Lifted this restriction and

121the applicant is heading to the correct boards to address this issue all that as a package would make it very easy for me to approve this tonight but it it would have to be a package deal that addresses all of the concerns essentially I just want to make a note I'm happy to put a note on the town on the Plenty boore website I think that's appropriate we can do that it's an easy LIF but it's also understood that the planning board can't obvious viously add an item to the select board or the Conservation Commission agenda all we do no but I think we have the responsibility but we're saying that part of our vote is that we're going to communicate to them and invite them to consider not I don't think we're inviting them

122to consider I think that's really up to the applicant to figure out and we don't even know if they are the the board right oh they are they are the Water Commission but I I think it's up to slug board legal counsel and the applicant to figure out what their role is I'm not going to tell them to read the law we can figure that out I just know that it's not us we're not the ones who turn that water on I I think if you vote this this evening we'll immediately tomorrow work with Peter we'll talk to the selectman wh whomever else the water department and find out the exact process and what we'll do is once we understand the full process we'll immediately report it to Peter who can then distribute it to

123you can we get a report of what H what happened with that process on the next meeting Peter oh 100% okay so does someone want to summarize that no no because all the pieces I mean I can try I I can try to make a motion um I will make a motion to oh wait a minute I withraw my motion you do you want to make it no I I made it already he had a he had a motion that he just withdrew so now you can do yours dangling motion all right um I will make a motion to approved the request for the irrigation modification including the removal of the Restriction regarding public water with the understanding or condition that the applicant will reach out within a short amount of time to relevant boards

124such as the select board concom or others with input from the planning office and that there will be a public notification through the town website or Andor other appropriate Town menus that Peter can explore the planning department can explore so that the public has notified that the planning board lifted the restriction and that the applicant is pursuing proper action is there a second I'll second and a roll call vote and a teski i Marcel I okay C Jersey guy and Trisha kendai thank you very much I much appreciate it all right thanks for um I have a I have a technical question if if we modified a decision does that have to get filed refiled does it have to be signed so traditionally what I've always done in the past is I'll draft up a

125memo um I've always draft drafted up a memo and normal I've if the board feels comfortable I've signed them before and filed with the time Clerk and typically they do not go to the registry of deeds however they just normally just stay on file with the town so in this case I'll draft up a simple memo just saying this is this was the motion and it obviously and it deletes this you know special condition number X on the decision filed date when where and then I'll share that with the board or trer and the board or Trish and and Anna the the co-chair and kind of move forward in that direction thank you very much right thank you um I assume we didn't talk about item five on the agenda MBTA no we did we

126did we got all the way through so next item is number seven okay seven housing Bond Bell and accessory dwelling unit Adu regulations um Peter do you have an update seems like you mentioned something nothing you know just real quick you know I'm I'm following it all the plans are following it right now uh actually I think it's Tuesday the state um unveiled a um Adu uh website which I'm happy to send the link to for everybody um I today I signed up for a mass Municipal Lawyers Association meeting on uh adus everyone's waiting to see what happens uh there's been a lot of good questions brought up whatever house is pre-existing not conforming does it go to the zoning board of appeals um XY and so uh we're all kind of sitting here waiting

127and I'm trying to go to Every conference webinar there is so correct me if I'm wrong but I I believe you mentioned something to me that Lisa me who is deep into MBTA at the moment but that she said basically this is being in most communities or I don't want to put words in her mouth but it's being put on hold a little bit until the regulations the proposed regulations from the state yes come out or are and speaking with other planners you know in the in the area um and through Lisa and obviously Lisa's working with all of her clients that she's advising everybody let's just hold tight see where the regulations are um and then move forward once those regulations you know come out um I am mentally preparing myself for a bylaw

128that we'll have to put together uh coming up to annual town meeting in May um fundamentally the the edu bylaw does not go into effect until February 2nd 2025 which would have been 180 days from the signature of the law uh but with that said rules should be able to come out we'll take some time and we can get a bylaw that's good that understands the regulations how it's going to be presented and implemented and then we can get that for annual town meeting so that is the cue that I am taking from Lisa um on how to move forward and how to proceed and I think it is the right cue I think we should not you know I think we should all understand it before we come up with rules and regulations and

129it's tough to come up with rules and regulations if the state hasn't done their best and so um with that said the question is so the law was signed by the governor right so while the regulations are passed what happens if somebody just files for a building permit just so if you file for a building permit today um it wouldn't be approved oh you can hold it until the regulations so February I would hold it no no February if February 3rd came in with a building permit I mean March 1st good point as long as that applied to all the regulations within the law right under the square footage in the back you know in the rear yard uh whatever those regulations were off the top of my head then yes we we would have

130to be approved we would have to be approved okay we have to be approved however and I believe the regulations will be probably released somewhere between Thanksgiving and Christmas um which doesn't give everybody a large amount of time right I think this is one of my take on is it wasn't you know they should have at least given us a full planners indor towns a full town meeting season to adopt right but yeah there is going to be a couple months where in Lim not in limbo where the bylaws at the time are going to be the rules and regulations within the ACT until all the other communities can just understand the regulations of the state and proceed uh at annual time meum that's what I'm take picking up from planners and and attorneys um

131I believe you know I think in next two weeks I'm going to go to the like I said the mass Municipal um who is presenting at this is is Mor Healy moraly um not the governor is actually in charge of uh all mass Municipal law um in reviewing all mass Municipal all Town bylaws um she regular presents at the CTP um which Anor Kate and I know Trisha you attended uh the last couple of years out at Holy Cross uh but with that said that's what everyone's waiting for we're all kind of seeing what happens is that any other questions on that okay all right so um it is 9:00 um and uh the discussion review of retreat items I want to make sure that we don't just load up our schedule with I want

132to make sure there's things we actually want to discuss instead of forcing in discussion items um so but is there anything that is that we should be looking at on that at this at this particular meeting so I I think we it was my fault we a little bit did six and eight together earlier um but I just want to bring up one thing about so I think what's really helpful if we can figure out a plan to have public like MBTA zoning accessory dwelling unit like we're hearing about it and I think we're being good publishing it but this if you take um six weeks back from May and this comes out in February let's just say we don't know anything there's very little time to like react but if we're telling people now

133we're going to be reacting we'd like to hit Spring 25 town meeting I think that's super helpful right so getting some of our more active things on the list like just in front of the public in that way yeah I mean so MBTA obviously I'm sure people have been saying it we've been pretty clear about it in the town newsletter right the that Michael Tom Andrew's newsletter that Michael puts out um and also advertising on the Facebook page and things like that yeah so is that like like just kind of I mean under planning board to have that these are things that we're discussing okay I think it'd be awesome because you're what happens is where did this come from I didn't hear I know you say but like people are going to do that

134and we're trying to prevent that the more it's out there and maybe people have good ideas and maybe the people that thought about the most are going to show up when we do have those hearings right so maybe we can look at putting that in next week's um next week's Town manager's newsletter about adus about about how the planning board is starting to discuss changes in the bylaws to adus based onw do that well and I I think ideally would be we'd like to see Springtown meeting right it's G be it's G to be Adu it's going to be this change that to time our timelines match of special permit and um and uh site plan review there's probably a couple others but now it's like we've been talking about for a whole year right

135those things because there's going to be probably quite a few I'm just going back a little bit because like you mentioned adus but then you mentioned some like that's that's one that we want probably the spring site plan review timelines updated to be the same as special permit timelines that's quite likely we'd like to have that at Springtown meeting I think what it makes sense skate and I I see where you're going is is to start maybe it's not in a in a you know maybe it's not next week or the week after but we put the story together you know maybe in in in sight these are the goal maybe some goals of the planning board are these three items Please be aware the planning board is working on the upcoming Adu bylaw we're

136looking to we're going to adopt a new flood plane for the Charles River Watershed and we're going to try to do uh a small correction to the site plan review regarding timeline and others if everything evaporates and we have more time but at least those we know are happening or can you put that can you put that in a little email and send it to Peter and I so we don't so there's a kind of a record and a little bit of a wording on it thank you the AC k okay H do you want the fan do you want me to put the fans on no it just started blowing like this is a miracle actually I noticed that [Laughter] too yeah yeah she's she's got six weeks to go getting flushed oh boy

137you're looking great thanks how you feeling why she look so happy all I'm like what's going on I was a lifeguard ready all right so um we are then uh at reports from board members and town planner um there's a long list here oh um so let's do reports from about the various um let's do number nine because I have a few things in there but first is comprehensive plan is on the top of the list anything from comprehensive plan um yeah so I think the the public survey about the current where so we've we have a draft Vision draft core themes and strategies we're working on not goals so there's so what this is we took all the public comment survey with the consultant the group selected what we think we heard and this

138is the chance to say yeah I like it I don't like it I think you heard and we were we've been told over over the Consultants of great this is iterative so it's not the one we might pick up through the process something else that we like better so that's still open but it's really important it's open for about a month it just just opened today so people will be on the lookout I assume that the um it'll be published every way we can publish things and then um it's this week at the select this coming week at the select board meeting on the 18th correct the consultant yes so will be there we do not have a planning board meeting next week but we do need to attend the select board meeting because there'll

139be both comprehensive plan discussed and then MBTA um discussed at that meeting so if people can be there are we first I'll TR to be there again Marcel showed up last night for the select board meeting he's very dedicated I think I thought it was last week well it was originally originally and she was like we're not doing that anymore it was originally scheduled for September 4th we did talk about that but it wasn't ready in time so it got changed to the select board meeting on the 18th just aggressively attending select board I guess so guess so A little over ambitious there so next week is kind of an important it's the fa end of to a report to the planning board and select board specifically obviously the public and then um the comprehensive

140plan be Ashland day obviously asking questions or getting survey and then I think a really important thing um one last thing coming up is that it's I think it's actually going to be in like November but each of our themes will have a working session with the professional representative of the consultant and those are groups of 16 to 20 um specialists in the top I so we're meeting comprehensive plans meeting this week so kind of our plan to recruit it was specifically said it really shouldn't be the same people um wait when is there a comprehensive plan meeting this coming week well today's already Thursday week from today oh boy okay thank you for reminding me um so that meeting I'm just putting it out there for we so that's five groups times 20 new

141people important and very important that that will be reviewing like strategies for the goals and um I think that's going to take a big effort and and it's a great opportunity to get more public so that's it thank you that's a lot really okay uh design Review Committee you had said and um maybe that you had reached out is that I did uh you we chatted about delegating to me the reach out to them to understand their uh agenda if you will um and so I reached out to them and I believe Monday at 8 is when I'm meeting with them great thank you for doing that I'm realizing I have a meeting for the Town 3 days next week thank you for reminding me Kate so sustainability committee um I think we I think

142I came in right as people were kind of mentioning that maybe because it was on the retreat items um but the several things involving um I still I kind of um when we came to the retreat I tried to reach out and I haven't so I kind of let that MBTA is obviously priority and it's kind of about the tree bylaw and anything else that might be on the yeah okay I mean I can reach out again if people want or just wait till we get through MBTA maybe MBTA Z that's not about idea yeah yeah yeah it's I would probably wait myself it it's okay to it's okay to reach out and said hey you know when when you're discussing it and you want us let us know but okay but we don't need

143to probably push it until we get this taken care of I think that was their plan yeah okay yep um okay uh CPC um we did have a CPC they were kind of on a big summer break but we did have a CPC meeting um uh earlier this week one of the evenings and um we approved some money for a study um for the wasam pond in on Long Pond Street um which I'm sure Kate knows about has been kind of over Kate's Pond we'll call it hopefully more viable than Anna's [Laughter] Hotel I hadn't heard that one hotel Anna I like it um sounds more Marcella knows what I'm talking about yeah but I think the pond has been um having some pretty serious issues with Vegeta growth and um bacteria all the things

144that we keep hearing about why you can't swim in various water bodies is ited it's been closed I think all summer like yeah yeah so 25% of it is kind of in Ashland and 75% is in Framingham a member of the Framingham Conservation Commission no Conservation Commission or CPC now I don't remember which one um but joined us for the CPC meeting and so they Framingham has already approved their share which is the 75% of the money for the study and the Ashen CPC has approved our 25% that is that's something that goes to town meeting as you know so um to to put towards a study to see if that pond how best to address the issues that are happening with that pond to remediate to remediate yeah yeah yeah so uh so that

145was kind of a good thing and um Becca Solomon the the Conservation Commission agent was the one who presented it to the CPC we gave her you know she was given an A++ for homework like she had her ducks in a row so have okay we'll work hard at it then okay but just so just so you know that's just the relationship with the CPC Metro West Regional collaborative they're still on summer break first meetings end of September okay so um and the MBTA working group we met on Monday yeah we met on Monday to um discuss a little bit The Forum that we had um you know I think I think it went well people asked a lot of good questions we answered them as best we could um but I don't think there

146was any real uh real feedback or strong like we don't like this but we do like this or we would rather you do this I think it was just more I mean it wasn't that different than our previous obvious plan but um so you know we took that um and we're going to have a second Forum on the on Monday right is Monday the 16th yeah Monday the 16th at 7 o'clock via Zoom which we kind of kind of just the same thing we'll present the we'll explain as if it's a whole new audience which because we don't know we'll explain the MBTA regulations we'll explain our work we'll explain what we're proposing and open it up for questions and feedback you know so have a question so are you like I I agree because

147there might be new people and we have to get as many people educated before town meeting um but I did hear feedback I I heard feedback and I feel like I mean it's nice to say what I did with your feedback and it might be simply like it was in keeping with but I feel like it was a little more detailed than that so people can feel heard yeah obviously I'm kind of summarizing an hour and a half meeting you know um but um but yet you mean so in the next meeting we can say hey this is some of the feedback we got back last time and then I feel like that's really important okay that's fine yeah we can we can definitely do that um so that'll be our second forum and then

148we'll be talking about it obviously um on Wednesday um with the select board at least at least that's the plan I assume well I I would say hopefully maybe we will then be able to take a vote of the two committees to see if the plan is um accept able if if it doesn't work then if we need to tweak it we still have the Monday of the 23rd which is the supposed to be more the just it's not supposed to be for that purpose but we can use it partially for MBT if we need to one thing I wanted to tell you because you were not here when we discussed the MBT zoning is we had quite a heated NOP I know it was hot discussion about um the importance of having opportunities for

149the public to speak and we discussed how that meeting with the select board would likely have a public comment so the public could communicate to us so I just wanted to make sure since you're chair communicate toand that we would like public to be okay is that an accurate summary okay yep that's fine okay um that's that um reports on planning topics I can just jump in yeah the biggest thing is uh economic impact tool so we we went uh Alo we we kind of start restarted our conversation again uh Framingham States back in you know school um and so the professor that we were dealing in or working with or communicating with um regarding the development of economic back tool was in in contact with us today Alvaro sent him a bunch of information

150so I think hopefully he's starting to look at the data that we're sending him and digging into it and maybe making sure you know kind of to to see if a project can get off the ground um in partnership with Framingham State so uh we continue to open that have that open line of communication back and forth okay um moving on to number 11 uh planning office updates um first and foremost whittimore Estates um definitive subdivision I know this has been on the agenda for a long time and we have received a couple emails about it I do need to tell everybody that this is on the Forefront of my day-to-day it is on the Forefront of Michael Herbert's day-to-day um Michael um spoke to the developer of this subdivision Steve Ross uh within the

151last week we are pushing them to finish the subdivision um we are coming to agreements on what uh can be done how it can be done and it needs to be done um to the subdivision standards and what was approved by the planning board in 2016 um I was on the phone today with the with the contractor um but when we receive emails please know that I am dealing with this on a day-to-day basis in the office and is that still going through through legal lawsuit Lisa we have yes we have legal council looking at this conservation agents on this we are all working on this together as a team um and we're trying to do the best that we can but at the moment the resid the the residents there have not had relief

152on the problems that they had or there something has been done no they're still working the developer is still working saying he's going to do it um we had confirmation he was going to do it he's going to do it things like this happen from time to time um this is not the first time it's happened in ashin it's not the first time I've ever had to deal with it um but yes we are dealing with it on and and we're trying to take care of it as as quickly as possible but since the time that we discussed this before has has actual work been done on the site work was done last work was done leading up to last winter we were in a good place coming out of the spring uh coming into

153the spring however we're still working on out details between the two parties so I just want to make a note to that 100 Chestnut Street um we did talk about so I'm going to skip over I have no update on 501 Pawn Street besides the fact that I did email the applicant um to see what you know how everything was going and what his next move was his permit time is running out his permit does expire I think it's December 22nd of 2024 uh which is only a few months away I said he's got to give us you know we where we want to know is this going to happen are you going to request extension what's happening and so that email went out uh I believe last week we and I have not received

154a response however uh I am not going to I I I'm following up with that I have no um obviously uh nothing really on the other two um besides well 12 Pawn Street I did meet with the developer out there Charlie zudo and we did go over implementation of the sidewalks uh and he stated that he's going to that's on his to-do list this fall since doot has completed the sidewalks in front of his building so hopefully we see some some movement out there um there is one item um which I didn't realize was is not on this but it does deal with the 501 Main Street uh property and it is um the the fire station do you mind if I go into greater Detail no that's not 501 though is it I'm sorry

155151 151 yeah and so just from the plany board standpoint um John mun the applicant um he did come to me the other day and he if you if you remember on and I can bring up an image on the approved plans but on the approved plans there was this concrete wall in the front of the building he's building out on the approved plans he has a raw concrete wall um what he is proposing is to put a um uh this is a sample piece so this is about 3 ft and this just a picture so is he looking he is looking to do is to upgrade that can I call it a facade that wall that that poor concrete wall with the with the cinder blocks on top he's looking to upgrade that facade

156of that wall with a I'm going to call it a stone veneer um I believe this is an upgrade um but I do want to just update the board uh I believe this is minor we can't you guys we can discuss it it's not on the agenda it would be public meeting violation just out there I I don't want to get pinged by anyone yeah but uh agenda items um uh it doesn't include things that we can't um uh expect so this just happened right but what I mean is let's not talk about it because it just happened unexpectedly and it's not on the agenda like we can't comment on this this should be on our agenda no I believe we can come up we can comment on things that come up uh that that

157can't be predicted which this couldn't and um and come up just unexpectedly so I I I believe there's nothing there's nothing we're doing about I'm going to there's no action item right it's there's no action item there there's no action item I I don't think anyone I mean I just an update yeah oh an update is fine but you started talking about what you believe which is an opinion and the second you do that we're open to potential argument that is a public meeting violation so I'm just stopping you and saying I'm not comfortable discussing it I I understand Peter made a surprise update but a discussion of it would be I would don't want to get in trouble then then do it I just did it yeah I think I think it's that uh

158he uh Peter showing us a pro a progress shot um of a of a this is just a progress shot of a proposal to upgrade the front facade of the retaining wall um but but but so so is is this going to come up to to somebody's approval or something at some point or is just an update of what they're doing I I think it's just an update of hey look at he's making it better than even we anticipated and I'm like great stone is a high ticket item where's this picture taken from the sidewalk oh looking at the building oh this is towards the building towards the building yeah so the board the building is up this is that patio it's that patio myself yeah so this is like as you would walk by

159if you would be walking on the sidewalk along Main Street that's where they took it okay correct yep yeah got it so I think it's upgrade I think it would look better and yeah um other than that I have uh no other updates okay so um is there anything else that people have that uh then um I think we're on to meeting Minutes review can I just comment that I will not attempt the informal gathering with the select board on the 23rd because I'll be out of the country and the same thing for the 26 the meeting we have on the 26th of September okay um do we have any special permit projects that I'll be missing because then attendance is an issue uh no at this point we have nothing um can we just

160avoid that so we don't if possible if we can if we don't get into deadline trouble but if we if I miss it I miss it I'm just letting everyone know I am not I have no nothing on my radar that's coming in so but I'm happy to do all I can to make sure I and you know what by by the time you receive an application and by the time you send it out for public notice and by time you get in the newspaper for two weeks it's a three to four week lag time and so I don't believe it's not an issue I don't think it's I think it's a not an issue Anna all right so then I think we're on to meeting sorry meeting minutes um oh I wasn't here this

161time I did watch I did watch it though um guess the only correction I have is if you could correct the spelling of my name in line six yep I had no Corrections just to comment that whoever is doing the minutes is still doing a great detailed job um yes I've never seen myself quoted as much I couldn't remember anything that I supposedly did but I trust it's accurate well was a girl dad uh I'll fix that oh see [Applause] you want a motion uh if everyone's is everybody good I think so I'll make a motion to approve the August 8th 2024 minutes as they are with the addition of page excuse me line 77 uh yeah it would be edit on line six and a edit on line 77 second and a roll call

162vote an Tes I I Catherine jerse I and that'll have to be good because I was there well I guess I can I can say I too because I did watch the meeting yeah sure all right okay so uh I'll make a motion to adjourn all right second 29 roll call vote Anki i marel i c Jersey gu Amanda ha and Trisha kendle ey all right thanks everybody but I can't for