Select Board June 26th, 2024

001e e e good evening and welcome to the select board meeting for Ashland for June 26 2024 welcome we have a few special guests in the audience we have some Scouts life Scouts who are here learning about Civic engagement and about their community so it's nice to have them in the house uh and with that I'm going to ask them to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice we are calling this meeting to order Please be aware that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast live via waca TV and live streamed on Facebook remote participation is available using the zoom video conferencing platform any disruption with the video conferencing

002platform will will result in the platform being shut down in the event of A disruption broadcasting will continue on waca TV and live streamed on Facebook um so welcome we are going to start with citizens participation if there's anyone here who would like to speak to something not on our agenda or to our agenda please introduce yourself evening 49 M stand back and get the whole picture it is it is on the agenda thank you for saying that at the last second last night comprehensive plan the best group session they ever had work together understood together let's hope that the town is working to be together M you missed a great night last night so next time you come you we can't put it on tape for you to have well Mark if you remember

003I was there but then I had to leave because there are some logistical issues happening so I'm sorry I missed it but I will be there for the next one okay then we just have up and com and siblings come with you that's it thank you great thank you Mark is there anyone else in person or via Zoom for Citizens participation if not uh we are going to we have a public hearing at 7:15 so we can't start that until 7:15 unfortunately because of how it's announced but we will jump down to old and new business let's start with item a announce the select board scholarship recipients Joe and cl if you'd like to take us through that please you ready sure okay thank you madam chair um we had the distinct pleasure of uh

004representing the board at class day and uh we had two presentations to give to uh Awards and they went to uh Andrew luago and uh Emily umholtz both deserving we had 28 total applicants uh for the scholarships and and and every one of them was deserving and I think Claudia and I and tell me if I'm wrong I I think we want to tweak it a little bit because I think it was a little bit confusing to some of them because we didn't receive a lot of the uh requirements that were asked asked for so maybe if we go over and try to uh maybe make it a little simpler for them to I don't know how much simple and more we can make it but it's just you know it's pretty straightforward asward but

005I think they got confused with the essay that they needed to write and it's not a letter of acceptance but a letter that you know what work did you do for the community and not for the school type and I think they got confused with that aspect of it just a little that's my interesting go ahead C well I just think that sometimes there's an overlap there right and so I think that some of the kids um were referencing trying to reference the overlap that might exist uh between those two uh types of service and that and I I mean I think if if that's the most important criteria for us then you know I don't know do we need to to wait it or do we need to you know spell it out that

006that's the number one just say it outright instead of making them guess um and then certainly the other thing for there you know some students who were missing um you know an item here or there so what we could do is just make it so it you know the submission is not accepted unless all these things are done right so um you know cuz I'm sure some of them didn't even realize that they were just being disqualified because they hadn't right um submitted all the pieces but well I know I mean Joe you can you and I can to attest this over the years right there's always the kids who they do it quickly or they don't submit everything or so I mean I certainly if we can automate it to Claudia to your point

007of if you don't have everything in it's not even accepted and you're notified of that the more automation the better please look at it and you know resend it you know we submit talked to and I mean maybe clarify the statement that we're looking for what they've done for the community and not just for their school yeah so great okay thanks well thank you for doing that it's always a fun time to go and get to announce I just want to add that they were we had so many um and they they were all very deserving candidates um oh yeah you know and um I think you know I had the pleasure of knowing Emily when she went through Mendes and really knowing what uh you know a great kid she was and even I

008can remember sitting with her a couple of times and having conversations and she was uh so mature uh so so such a a together young woman at the time um really Beyond her years and Andrew came to us after mes um but I did actually you know we were kind of tied on this on the on the second applicant and did a little research and and heard some great stuff about him so um I think that um we were both pretty excited about the candidates and and only wish that we had more money to give to everybody everybody yeah well that mean that's certainly a conversation right we up the amount we're giving to two we could certainly say do we want to spread the wealth a little bit but that's so that's a discussion

009for another time okay great so just and just a um quick before we move on um so we gave two $2,000 scholarships correct so um so all your boy scouts back there take notes so this will be important things to remember as as uh when you become seniors yep so anyway so thank you guys for for your work on that it's always fun next item on our agenda because it's still not 7:15 yet is discuss setting up a joint meeting with the planning board so Claudia you had brought this up at a a board report so I just wanted to find out what people were thinking what are their thoughts about this and just to let you know we are also in the process of trying to set up a joint meeting with the planning

010board specifically for the comprehensive plan so yeah so I think the the the idea behind this um was more and I have had a opportunity to talk to a couple of planning board members was more that it was less of a a working session as um just kind of a a time to come together um and just have you know some conversation and and build a little uh you know collegiality amongst the two boards um and so so it wasn't necessarily to have um like I said to have be be working on one particular topic for that I understand and and that was indeed you know I talked to Trisha and I think I talked to Kate as well um and and that I think is what you know when I originally had mentioned it

011to them that they they were interested in that okay kind of a meeting right thoughts from other members I I mean I think it's a great idea uh go ahead M yeah I I think that's a great idea actually I think we should definitely move on that as soon as we can very helpful for a lot of reasons evenings Saturday Saturday morning Saturday afternoon I know it's tough those of us who work during the day and have lots of other meetings and stuff but um we have 10 people's schedules plus Town manager and possibly the town planner that we may want to have there as well so when's your next uh confer of plan meeting uh in July we the well the The Joint meeting that we're looking to have with the planning board is

012going to be a presentation by the consultant and then they wanted that they're looking for that to be about a half hour and then they're looking for the comprehensive plan committee to go off and do some work based on that meeting so unless we do it before um but I think I think the feel that I'm getting from Claudia is it's it's a more casual thing it's not sitting around table I if it's easier we could certainly try to piggyback it have you know um some you know some snacks and and a meat and kind of a gathering beforehand right or it's a yeah it's maybe a downstairs for an hour before and then come up okay yeah something along those lines or you know even a little bit longer I mean I'd certainly be

013willing to host something if if um that worked out better um you know I'm okay I'm open to open into what works for the members I I think it's a good idea I think that if we're going to try to get everybody's schedules together though we should have at least some I don't want to say meat on the bones but that's kind of you know why are we getting together kind of yeah because we're going to not only are we going to have the comprehensive plan meeting where we're trying to get the boards together but we're also have something coming up about MBTA communities at some point that we're going to jointly need to meet so maybe it's sort of a preamble to one of those two meetings instead of trying to get a third

014date where we all all trying to get together but I think it's a good idea I think I think the more that we work collaboratively it's it's it's oh definitely a good thing so okay great I'll reach out to Trisha and uh we'll get this going okay next item as it's still not 7:15 is vote on a one-year reappointment of Town Council so we did the review of Town Council we can only appoint them for one year and I don't there was no nothing in the packet for this so I think all of you maybe have hopefully met with Lisa and other members of her team from other things that you've done here in town so basically we just need to vote to extend their contract by another year do we need anything else on

015that Michael no it's just um it would just be the year ending June 30th 2025 and you know I would just say based on the evaluation that you covered during the last starting July 1 starting July 1 yep all right so I'll make a motion to reappoint Town Council beginning July 1st 2024 and ending 2025 June 30 202 okay can I get a second great thank you any other discussion all those in favor I I great 5 thank you all and we have our Town Council for another year great okay approve the consent agenda sure wants sure no that's fine we can do the consent agenda I can get a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented and a second second all those in favor I I great consent agenda I'm just going to

016break away for a second for the young gentlemen who are watching us so you're looking at the agenda you have a copy of it for you in front of you right so if you notice there's a lot of items under the consent agenda and what happens is those are all pretty straightforward things that we don't really need to discuss that it's either reappointing someone or thanking someone um or let's see yeah those those are most of this uh approving minutes things like that so by putting them all in one item called a consent agenda we can quickly pass one two six items in as quickly as you just saw it you also we also use it at town meeting for certain things that are the same year after year you're welcome Town Forest y okay

017great I have one question sure sorry um because I wasn't prepared yet to to vote consent agenda and I apologize for that but I think we only got one set of meeting minutes and our consent agenda said two I think we only got meeting minutes from uh from June 5th I don't you missing the May 24th yeah I don't see meeting minutes for May 24th okay so we'll scratch that May 24th was part of it thank you okay sorry for the no okay it's okay nope that's okay okay moving back it is now 7:15 or it will be by the time I read this and we do have um bill here for for this next one so legal notice town of Ashland notice is hereby given that the select board will conduct conduct a hearing

018regarding the transfer of stock for Ashland Public Market Inc DBA Main Street Wine and Spirits Ashland Public Market DBA Main Street Main Street Wine and Spirits 197 Main Street Ashland Mass 0 1721 a public hearing will be held on the matter on Wednesday June 26 2024 at 7:15 p.m. persons wishing to be heard on this matter are invited to attend the public Hearing in person or by logging on to the zoom meeting interested parties who are unable to attend the hearing May submit written comments to the select board's office Town Hall 101 Main Street ashin mass 01721 or by emailing Susan Robby at sroy Asin mass.com Okay so we've announced the public hearing and we are reviewing a change of stock option for this uh entity and that's it um if we are William if

019you could come up and take us through the change and why it's necessary okay actually motion to uh open the public hearing which I read second all those in favor I I perfect good evening Goldberg from Main Street Wine and Spirits uh this is just house cleaning on some paperwork that uh that came to our attention in the past year just um when my father uh passed almost 27 years ago and my uncle passed five years ago they never properly split their businesses in the eyes of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission and so uh this is all this is is just letting them know that my dad and my uncle don't own the business anymore okay good and we um unfortunately Susan's not here but either Jen or Michael from what I can tell we

020had everything we needed in our packet to approve this okay okay okay and as far as I'm aware we have not received any comments okay okay well congratulations on you your new business or about to be your new business any um questions or well anyone here to speak against this not that I expect that but we just need to go through um any comments or questions from the select board regarding this is bullard's Market still in operation it is under new ownership okay because that was the other that was your your uncle's business right that's right okay that's right all right his uh his son sold it to the person had' been working there for about 30 years so okay and that that took place last year last year yeah that's pretty much when all

021this came to light all came to light gotcha okay okay thank you wel okay any other questions or com comments I can get a motion to close the public hearing so moved second all those in favor I and then if I can get a motion to approve the stock change as presented so moved second all those any other discussion seeing none all those in favor I and that carries 4 Z you are all set all right thank you all now now congratulations now congratulations congratulations it's finally M there you go there you go now the fun starts thank you right great nice kid okay moving on I see Steve Greenberg is here so if it's okay with Steve and everybody else if he's actually still there okay until we see him we will uh move

022on CU my understanding is that Steve is giving the presentation from the affordable housing trust okay so let's keep going down our old and new business until we see Steve come back uh vote to approve a one-day bino Bingo license request from K&B crayons and Beyond to be held on August 9th 2024 at the VFW 311 Pleasants street we have the information this is basically just their looking for a one-day license to be able to do uh this program and it is a fundraiser for KB's crayons and Beyond a non-profitable a nonprofit charitable organization Michael we just need to vote to approve the one day license correct any questions comments concerns okay uh I move that we approve the uh I I would ask for a motion to approve the one day beo license as

023requested so moved okay second great any other questions or discussion all those in favor I great and that passes good luck to them and if not doing anything that day go and support do we all need to sign should yeah you should sign you should sign a license okay we'll do that after the meeting yeah so remember no one can leave until we've signed that license great wonderful still no Steve well he's oh he just needs to maybe he doesn't realize he's here oh now he's gone now he needs to be must be on some good medicine right he might night we want to make him co-host yep okay well as we continue working on that uh Michael want do the town hall yes let's do the update on the assessment of the Town Hall

024sure so um so just a couple of updates related to town hall and essentially the infrastructure so one of the things that we have been working up on is um first of all basically securing the building uh had a significantly cracked beam um based on when the renovation was done I think around 2005 so what happened was the proper supports wasn't putting put in place in order to support the HVAC systems that were put in place so unfortunately that led to a pretty significant crack and twist in one of the main supporting beams which um so we've ended up going through and you know having to get an architect and engineer and so that's been fixed and secured so that's number one um the second thing we've been doing is I mean as you can

025see the exterior you know we painted it probably eight or nine years ago but it's looking a little tired a little rough so instead of just looking at painting this time um one of the things that we've done is uh Doug Scott our Building Commissioner who's kind of heading this project he went and secured a lift uh with an architect to actually go through all the town hall and the exterior and kind of look at the places that's have rotted and and all of that good stuff and making determinations of what needs to be replaced and how it can be replaced and so he's taken that assessment and putting it all together and we'll put that out to bid later this year to do the work like whatever kind of replacement work needs to be

026done and then as well as uh painting and so one of the things I will make clear is that um you know we used a composite material for the steps because we felt that that was probably most appropriate but you know for the town hall proper if you will the exterior you know we'll be using more like the historical period materials you know wood Clapper and stuff like that so good so anyway yeah it was um as we all know how how hot it was last week and so you know Doug uh we've got some good shots of Doug up on the lift um with all the safety harness and stuff so so has that mean support being been reped or it iness so it has been repair yeah and there were a couple of

027other things like apparently there was another support that was supposed to be put in place place um really kind of I'm looking up because it's kind of in this area and it was not so that's been taken care of and addressed not anymore we probably should have moved a long time ago Joe uh but now we're in good shape so okay any other questions um just um we had we had budgeted for this this year right like we had when we were looking at the budget for this was part of that allation mli the 8 million yep are we thinking that this is going to you know depending on like how much replacement and stuff is that is it going to align with what we had projected the the cost would be it should I

028mean I we I think we'd put in 450 okay and yeah that should cover it I was kind of hoping we'd have some more left over but it doesn't sound like you know based on Doug's estimation that that's going to be and unfortunately pricing right now for cards like you know are are higher so exactly yeah oh nice nice okay any other questions or comments on the town hall question about the painting a question about the painting um do you ever consider using Rhino Shield Joe I think given the historic nature of the yeah the building something yeah are you you're talking about like a a composite type of more like a plastic it's it's it's the type of it's the type of paint right it's more of a plastic it's a ceramic it's a

029ceramic ceramic type of yeah I think we' probably be looking more at the traditional you know acrylic or I'm just saying it would last longer and it would save the town's taxpayers money over the years type of deal yeah I mean if if we wanted to go in that direction um then I mean we would look at something like a composite type of material for the siding but given that this building's on the national register I'm not sure exactly what kind be question to see if they would they would allow that you know because I know a lot of historic places down down in Florida are using it so yeah yeah I'm I'm trying to remember the exact the Secretary of interior standards I get to know those with the Valentine with quite a bit

030um and and there's certainly times when it is appropriate to use that I if I remember correctly it's really more in a location that's not very visible to the public um but Town Hall was just on Chronicle on Monday right that's true true we don't want to so okay good see seeing no other questions on the update on the town hall project and we see Steve Greenberg Steve welcome thank you uh if you're ready apologize for technical difficulty I try to uh unmute and unv video but uh here I am great so thank you for uh inviting me to this evening's meeting and uh happy to answer any questions and maybe first I could tell you a little bit about what's new and what's going on with the affordable trust that'd be great sure currently

031uh there's a property on Main Street that uh the trust has been working with the property owner and Habitat for Humanity uh to develop a single family home on that property and that's been a a long time uh vacant parcel of land that uh we're we're excited about the possibility of developing an affordable unit there and habitat's been great to work with the property owners have been great to work with so uh they're working their way through the process and the state so U look forward to Habitat coming in front of various boards in town in the very near future and getting something uh put up on that lot that serves the affordable housing numbers here in town great another uh project we have been working I'd like to say collaboratively with the with the

032select board is uh Olive Street and uh the former sipson property that the town has owned for quite a while that property was purchased a long time ago with Community preservation act funds two buckets open space and affordable um it's a property that that has some Uplands on the on the street and uh a lot of wetlands in the back and I think uh beavers probably enjoy that property more than anyone but uh we uh you know we did some Wetland studies years ago we had all that updated and approved with through the Conservation Commission and uh we took those new boundaries and uh setbacks and the trust retained a landscape architect a gentleman by name of Stephen Cosmos and uh he's come up with uh some scenarios of very uh limited scope because again

033of the um the wetlands uh sort of make it a uh a small envelope so um I have a document I can if I'm allowed to I could share screen with everyone or uh just talk about it whichever you prefer it would be great if you could show it I believe you're set up to co to um as a co-host okay yeah so you can just share your screen here with me yes so Joe it this didn't get into our packet but you all should have received it via email from Joe is that is that visible very good yep that's it okay so what um the landscape architect has done has taken a section of Olive Street that probably has the greatest depth in term in terms of setbacks with with Road wetlands and uh

034zoning and come up with a couple of different scenarios here that challenge uh both access to the parcel and uh and the number of units so the top left has six units with 12 parking spaces as does the uh the U rendering on the viewers right the uh parking gets a little complicated but the purpose of uh putting something like this together would be in the hopes of with the select board's approval going out uh with a request for proposals that gave those who might be interested in developing 100% affordable units on this property some ideas of what they could potentially develop so we would have for someone who' be interested a full set of uh wetlands and topography and approvals as well as these particular renderings maybe they could come up with something that

035fits better looks better um maybe has a few more units but again it's it's very Compact and uh so that would be the affordable component of the property and again because of the extreme Wetlands there um I think the balance of the property would be for those to uh enjoy whether they want to walk back there and get their feet wet or uh just have something pretty to look at okay so that's um that's something we'd again like to further discuss with the select board to see if they'd be uh interested willing to go forward with an RFP and uh I think the other most recent update to the affordable trust is that we're at full membership Carlton Phelps has joined our ranks so that brings our membership to five and uh he's new he's

036new to the uh to the trust but in our last meeting he very much participated and we look forward to his future interest and and future additions to the uh to the trust and what we're trying to get done great questions or comments Claudia go ahead and then Brandy hi Steve um just I have a couple of well one question about the Main Street property um so how does that work when somebody like the owners have are selling it or well they must be selling it to Habitat for Humanity to build well um like any real estate transaction Claudia you need site control um so they have site control they have a purchase and sale agreement with the property owners they needed that to uh present not only to to various boards here in town

037but to the state okay so uh there is a contract they haven't shared it right right I think that's private between them and the property owner but um so I guess I guess the thing that I was trying to get at is if somebody owns property and they um you know want to make it available to a developer who would build something or in this case Habitat for Humanity is it is it sold at a competitive market or is rate or is it discounted in some way or does the the state participate because it's um going to be you know for affordable housing or um I don't think the state contributes in terms of of financial yeah um I think the big Financial contributor here will be the town of ashin through the affordable trust

038yep uh because you know to as mentioned earlier in talking about rehabbing town hall construction costs are silly um soft costs to get something approved is not cheap so I would say that you know 10 years ago 15 years ago the purchase price on this property uh is probably what's reflected in the contract so it's um it's probably a 25 30% of what would be market rate but um I think cloudy it all depends on the project but you know sometimes property is donated right you know the YMCA project is is a donated parcel yeah I know I know it is yeah it's not the easiest parcel and maybe that's why it's still available yeah but um I hope I answered your question or if I didn't please tell me how I can better better

039answer the question yeah no I I think you have and then um the the Olive Street property um so that is so that's currently owned by the town and then for it to be affordable units how does how does that work there they're set by that the certain formula in terms of price um there is is are there some priorities given to people who work for the town it depends on the size of the final project okay um I I think unfortunately with Main Street that won't be the case but I think that can be certainly part of the RFP that um Town residents might get uh certain advantages in the potential ownership or rental of the property on Olive Street um but um it's pretty strict guidelines about that the um again as as

040I mentioned earlier the parcel was purchased with CPA funds out of the two buckets open space and affordable so um anything that was sold there would have to be affordable or built there would have to have deed restrictions relative to Affordable so I hope that answers your question yeah so and and those though a developer there right it is it are they I'm just asking I guess it is developing a prop property that is going to be affordable housing as lucrative as it would be to go and and develop a property that isn't affordable housing or you know I'm trying to understand what the impetus would be for a developer to step up um there wouldn't be impetus for a market developer okay this is a project that uh entities like habitat or others that

041might be looking for tax credits but I don't think that would be the case here uh this is not a financial gain by uh the town or the developer if we do something on H Street or Main Street it's uh it's a negative it's a negative Capital uh you know Improvement if you will Stephen couldn't they go to the state right there's there's housing the the Housing Authority at the state that if they're building affordable housing they can get some kind of financing as well there's funding available for that if you look at um like Robert Hill way they were able to get how some funding to help build that parcel build that Rober Hill Way was actually um a federal program and there were tax credits and that that took years to get approved

042yeah yeah on many different levels that that took years to get approved um in a in a case like U Main Street and a case like Olive Street I think the um the financing would most likely come through a state approved Agency for the homeowner right but in terms of uh Development and Construction I think it would be U one of the primary uh fund sources would be the trust right okay and then and then you're always kind of looking for a non a nonprofit developer if you will absolutely okay and are those um do we is there a pool from which we kind of seek out I know we put out an RFP but do we also advertise it with oh I I think that you know be willing I think Jen could speak

043to that uh but the irfp is um broadly advertised uh based on state guidelines 30b guidelines and uh there are a number of nonprofit developers out there I don't see a lot of them U banging on the door to to get a project that is going to depend on a local uh funding and uh and possibly some State assistance but I think we can get it done I'm actually very confident we can get it done at a price right the other thing too is the developer doesn't have to purchase the the land because that's Town owned land so that there's there is that component of it right for the Olive Street par the street they're they're starting at a different point than if they had to purchase so the profitability is is a little bit

044yeah so I think there'd be some subdividing you know I don't I don't see um if it's a if it's the individual units are purchased I don't see those individual units taking uh any ownership of the balance of the land available in the back I think we would have to uh look at a plan that's subdivided out the development parcel and the rest would stay with the time and what is the in terms of their the going through to the permitting of that with the planning board and that is it what's that similar to is it typical it be similar to it would be a 40b yeah it's similar to a 40b that's I guess so it be the zoning board of appeals okay Michael you wanted to add something and then yeah so so

045Steve what you're saying is like we would have to give the property basically to the developer and then we would probably need to make an additional Financial contribution right to make it financially feasible that's 100% correct from the trust from the trust the TR correct from the trust from the town you know it comes from the town from CPA to the trust to the developer and the trust right now has significant funds um well those funds aren't as significant as they used to be but there there are there are in the trust there's so I also Envision um when we get there to go to town meeting and um let's say what the town has to say about this project and uh ask for some funding at that CPC at that time right so right

046now uh there's still affordable I mean there's housing money sitting in the CPC bucket that has to be then moved from CPC to the trust but so the monies are were not be on top of what the tax rate in any way shape or form no no okay thank you Randy so thank abolutely um thank you Steve and and the whole affordable housing trust for all the work on the Olive Street project um I know the last time I think that you were here we were talking about you know what potentially that could look like and you had to do a lot of work on the the wetlands deliniation and all the the the surveying and all the the you know the groundwork to even get to this point so seeing seeing a sketch with

047with actual units on it is is uh pretty pretty cool I think so so um so thank you for all the work on that and I'm I'm looking forward to to seeing this kind of go go to the next step um I was just curious you know you had mentioned ownership or or rental and you know are these are these looking to be like probably two bedroom units or how big how big of how big little houses are these or or I guess that's I think the state refers three bedrooms if it's a property for sale um so I think that would be the U the way we would hopefully write into the RFP and uh I think I think in a development like this uh the trust has talked about it for a long

048time and I I think Joe uh would back me up on this that we're thinking more of a for sale rather than a for rent okay I certainly like to see home owners and you know what happens with entities like Habitat for Humanity there's a lot of Sweat Equity from the purchasers that goes into literally from the ground up they're involved in the construction and uh you know pride of ownership I think is important so you know we certainly want these to be an asset to the town and to those that are going to live there great um and then so as far as the weather it would be you know is it like you look at certain Ami for for these types of units you would you look at Joe just said 80% so

049um likely that's kind of what you're looking for yeah okay all right yeah you know I think they would probably sell probably you know in today's world they probably sell around $300,000 which okay you know that's affordable in today's book absolutely well not really but it that's what the numbers say um so just to talk about the 80% it's 80% Ami the area mean income so who would be eligible for these types of units um and with the am with the current median in 12,000 property it's it's the so the larger the family the uh more income they're allowed to make Ashlin is in the so the the districts are set up by Hut Ashlin is in the Boston District so the allowable income is quite substantial you know 100,000 plus so the larger your

050family the more you're allowed to make okay and and it has to be your first home is that true uh there are some caveats there Claudia but typically your first home okay and this is into perpetuity so um deed restriction would be in perpetuity I think that'd be one of our not only the town but the state's requirement right and just just from a time frame perspective um what what are your thoughts about like timing for you know to put this out to bid for an RFP and um what I'm looking at gen to um so I was just curious from from from your perspective what what that kind of looks like well if if you want to make a motion uh certainly look forward to working with uh with Jen to uh out yeah

051I I just like there's a lot involved in these things I also think you know we're doing our Retreat the first meeting in August and we can talk about timing and how this fits into the other projects I think a lot of work has been done but I think before we I mean I I'm with you I'm like ready to jump in but we know that a lot needs to be done uh any other questions or comments because if not I have a yeah the only quick comment I wanted to make with with respect to what Brandy just brought up is that the Whitland delineation we were really surprised that how much land we actually lost over the years yeah uh when we did our first uh Whitland delineation and it's quite substantial I mean

052we talk tell by we're talking about a ball field we wanted we were thinking about putting a passive you know Recreation part of it that's all gone yeah all of it's all gone because of the delineation all well because how the wetlands have increased how how they increased yes would climate change would that be uh I think be the Beavers more than anything else the Beavers the Beavers so Steve thank you for coming and and chatting with us I just had a couple of comments slash thoughts on housing and what we're trying to do here in in Ashland one of the complaints I hear from a lot of people is we're doing a lot of rentals and not a lot of purchase so the idea idea that these would be for purchase rather than rental

053I think is a great idea uh the other thing to think about is I'm looking at the floor plans and you know their three bedroom we also are hearing that people are looking for other forms of housing right they're not looking for maybe larger units they're looking for smaller units um instead of these being single you know single family is it possible to make these two family but smaller um just things to think about is it something that we could do senior right small senior housing that's affordable I don't know those are just some of the things that I've heard people say certainly the the small house thing that you're you know it's sort of something that's a lot of people are talking about instead of having a bigger house having a smaller house we

054could potentially fit more units on the the land any thoughts on that I do have a thought on that and it's unfortunate um I've had the pleasure of putting my sister's house on the market she lives in uh she lives in Hoppington on Lumber Street she's surrounded by mcmansions m and and uh the house is 780 Square ft I'm not going to divulge the uh price that it's under contract for but you would be shocked I can imagine talking between four and $500,000 yeah for 780 foot house so know bring that house to Ashlin you're talking about $425,000 y um I think I think the development world out there um has a has a good understanding of the market and and the right nonprofit developer knows what uh the state wants and what the town

055wants and I think we can we can guide an irfp to get uh as much baying for as many buckes we have to spend as possible okay great yeah I I think all three of these I I like the ones where they go completely off the street to get into the development I think because of Olive Street and either the oneway circle around or the entrance in and out something that gets the houses and their front part so there's not all the homes are not going in and out of Olive Street yeah right okay great any other questions or comments for Steve gentlemen any questions that you would like to ask no the reason I'm asking that Steve is we have three boy three Boy Scouts here who are learning yeah so they they came

056specifically to hear about affordable housing I'll be happy to talk to them anytime yeah yeah so you can reach out to Steve Greenberg he's he's very knowledgeable he's our is so great get better my friend if there's no other questions yes feel better Steve if there's no other questions uh thank you very much Steve for coming and speaking with us and we look forward to moving these projects along thank you I appreciate the opportunity speak thank you for you thank you for your work on this yeah okay byebye so many years ago Jen and I and Brandy had the opportunity to actually work on a Habitat for Humanity house when it was being built in Holliston so I think that's certainly one of the things that as habitat comes into our community with this house

057they I'm sure would offer opportunities for people who want to volunteer to help build it's actually pretty cool to go and help and then see the house get built and as Steve said with Habitat for Humanity whoever is selected to be moving into the home they also have to put so many so much time and energy working on building their own home Steve called it Sweat Equity yeah great okay wonderful thank you for sharing the information Joe beforehand appreciate that moving on in our agenda update on the de Andi project Michael and probably Makita as well yeah definitely and and Makita or Jen please feel to jump in here but um so you know I'm happy to say that we've basically concluded our engagement with I success Consulting and T Rene Smith um the energetic

058Dynamo that is the principal of said firm um and uh so we got basically a a lot of good actionable information from the surveys and the interviews that we did which was a key component uh the first component of of this stage which is developing a Dei action plan and um again just to kind of refresh everybody's memory we did um interviews and surveys of both um you know Town leadership also employees and then also community members and basically got their take on U basically what their experiences have been uh and what they have witnessed and things that they feel that are important in the Dei realm moving forward and we got a variety of responses back which we did review as the Dei task force with um uh with the consultant so since that

059time um Jen and I have met with our department heads to to review basically the employee um stuff and go through that and talk about basically what our potential next steps could look like um we still have to meet as the Dei task force and do the same thing and I think our although we don't have specifics right now our next step we know is to do more of a communication out with the community to explain this is kind of where we are with the process this is what we've heard and then these are a couple of steps that we're going to take based on the on the information that we've received from an will the report be available for the public to read yes okay um and so that's pretty much it in a

060nutshell Makita or Chen do you you know have anything to to to add to that no it was a pretty good run that was a pretty good rundown of of what's happening so yeah I don't really have anything to add Michael thanks for the recap yeah thank and thanks to the Dei task force again and Makita and Jen being a part of that but then also the other members I think they've been uh very very critical in terms of providing feedback a good set of eyes good questions um to help guide this process and thanks to the community and everybody that participated let's say yeah absolutely will we be able to take this report and roll it into our work with the comprehensive plan yes perfect yes and that that was one of the primary

061I was about to say that was a key focus of what we were trying to do here so absolutely great yeah mck and I very very in sync in terms of the fact that from the very beginning that we can't have a plan that is sitting on the shelf it has to be right right it has to be actionable and it has to be executable so yeah okay any other questions regarding the project from anyone else comments one quick question were you guys satisfied with the it came out surprise there any surprises that you didn't take you know I well I'll take the the first part um you know I think that the methodology was sound I was actually very impressed with the uh consultant and um how they actually conducted the survey and and

062just uh how we gathered the data I think was very sound and solid so you know the results that we have are a good starting point I think for us uh it's not the end all be all certainly won't uh you know give us any sort of uh complete answers uh but I think it's a good starting point yeah Michael I don't know if you have or Jen if you have anything to add around that yeah I I thought like Makita said I think the survey the the methodology and everything was sound so I do believe that what we have is a good accurate uh base from which to make decisions from or to work from I think the range and the breadth of answers that we had elicited I guess you could say like

063a range of different thoughts and maybe even emotions for me and I'm sure for everybody else um I was very appreciative of some of the data that we received especially from some of the employees because it didn't um you know even though it was focused on diversity equity and inclusion um you know there were some other things just about culture that kind of um came through that was pretty interesting and um something that I think that we can use moving forward so and this included not just general government but the schools as well know the well I mean people um certainly opined and offered their opinions on schools yeah but um but it was not yeah so that I think that there are a lot of opinions about many things um in town uh the

064town Services especially but also just business you know folks experience generally in town around this um and of course there are a lot of families who are part of the schools who responded and shared some of their experiences um in that survey as well but there is definitely Joe to get back to to answer the second part of your question there is definitely a diversity of opinion of of uh different experiences in town around this issue so I think again I think it's going to be a solid foundation for us to uh start rolling up our sleeves and taking some action so when you talk about staff you're talking about General government staff was part of that and part of that discussion I mean I know the schools have been doing some work as well

065exensive work several years ago even for sure okay great any other questions or comments no thank you Makita for being on that thank you Michael and Jen for your work on that I know it's it's very important that we look at what we're doing in our community because of how our community has changed in the last 15 20 years it's it's definitely our community looks a lot different than it did before so yeah well like you know I think every Community should change no matter what the community itself looks like I think that um you know we are a world we're not just a these insular communities anymore or even countries right everything is um and I don't think we can ever have real peace and in a a good world when there are people

066starving and people uh you know there's too many imbalances right throughout the world so um I think uh it's nice to certainly be in a community that Embraces that but everybody needs to great thank you for that Claudia moving on discuss and vote on the Mass housing comment letter for the Oasis at Ashland located at 61 Waverly Street and as of today we have received 40 comments you all should have received this packet unfortunately it was as we were coming in but there's a lot of similarities to this response as there was to the mill response where we had a lot of input so Michael do you want to take us through this and is there any big difference that we need to be aware of um well there there's there's a few I I

067think not necessarily big ones but things that you know we should kind of run through and uh you know as you mentioned Yolanda you know you all got this as you're coming in and um I do apologize for that this obviously uh way later than gives you an opportunity to kind of digest this and and um you know make some comments associated with it but um you know essentially you know the the letter itself I I mean the the lead in in terms of our rationale against why we think this project is not good the way it is presented um really hinges upon the work that we've already done in developing housing throughout the community um both in terms of what has been built and what has been permitted um and then you know we

068also reference the fact that there is an additional 250 units that we're talking about aside from what we've detailed here that is at least I I guess you could say for lack of a better term on the table with the mil proposal currently before Mass housing uh so this is a little bit of a different project and a little bit different site than the mill first of all um the whereas the mill has been seen and visible and has been talked about in plans put together for you know four years um you know this site itself really we haven't seen anything about it for you know since since I've been here for for a while so it's relatively new and then also I think um you know there's very there's very little information that's required

069by Mass housing um as part of their application package um and I think you know with the developer with like the mill project SV which has experience in Massachusetts doing a lot of um a lot of 40b projects I think in their application you see a lot of data even more and above what's required from Mass housing whereas with this one um it is a relatively new development company in at least in Massachusetts um you know technically their their LLC for this project is RSP Acquisitions but it's essentially the parent company's posern realy Group which um is based out of Rhode Island and they've done a couple projects now in mass or at least have one uh that's built and one that's in in the in the pipeline but they provided relatively little data um

070associated with their application as well so it's been hard for our boards and committees to um and our staff really to kind of take a look at it and um and basically find specifics to I don't want to necessarily say take issue with but at least evaluate um but that being said there are some um and just again like the the project design itself so if you're just looking at Aesthetics you know you look at what was envisioned by the town through the Wildwood mixed juuse District where this project is located um which was you know really supposed to be a self-enclosed and self-contained mixed use District that had a variety of uses like commercial residential open space recreational um you know obviously the project as proposed uh through this 40b sticks strictly to residential

071and um so it just in that element in that Essence it kind of goes against what the town had envisioned um specifically with regards to the buildings themselves so the height um is something that I think that we've all taken issue with so we're talking about on the site two four story buildings and two five-story buildings so on the site under the traditional zoning um I'll call it the traditional zoning or or zoning I should say um you could do a 5tory building as long as it's mixed use um if you only decided to stick to like a residential only building um the limitation was three stories and so obviously you see a deviation from what our zoning is by having four and five story only residential buildings um so I think that's something that

072we um you know we take some issue with uh with regards to infrastructure of course Water and Sewer um is is very very very important um in detailing you know the issues with our our water supply and you know look the fact is that we do have this supplemental connection now to the MW but we're Limited in what we can basically take from Southboro in terms of gallonage uh I think it's 300,000 gallons a day um uh so you know there there's potential to bump up against that even if you don't look at the Mill project itself um and then also the town sewer system you know we've talked about the limitations associated with that both from a physical perspective but then also from uh again a paper perspective and what we're allowed to basically

073what they call an interbase and transfer um from you know the Basin that we withraw water from and then because essentially what we're doing is we're drawing water out of our Basin and we're transporting it through our sewer system to Boston Harbor um and so again there's limitations that we're allowed to do through D um in that and then also with what we're allowed to basically transport through framing Hamp system through the intermunicipal agreement um and so again the addition of 226 units is is not going to help that at all um so one of the things that we found uh I'll just say frustrating um to a certain extent is that um you know in order to really kind of identify what Wetlands resources that you're potentially impacting you have to have an up-to-date

074delineation or you should have an up-to-date delineation uh what they have Pro what um the developer has provided is really kind of an estimation of what the Wetland resources are um that is significantly out of date by a couple of decades um now the person who did that work Joyce Hastings um I don't know if she's retired yet but Joyce has done a lot of work in Ashland in in Metro West uh through glm Consulting um but Joe just as you mentioned um how much the re resource area Wetland resource area had grown on Olive Street over the past you know 15 years you can imagine having a very similar um situation here and so I think a real delineation needs to be done in order for us to see what the impact is and

075I think that's going to impact the conceptual plan as well um uh traffic concerns um oh wow uhoh uh obviously a little bit different than what the with the in terms of the specifics than what we had with the mill site but um the fact is is that 135 in Waverly Street is really kind of the main thorough Fair corridor from east to west you know running through Ashland and so um again adding I I think there's 431 spaces you know adding 431 cars let's just say take that for what it is exactly and and then I think also the fact that it's proximity to the public safety building which which um you know obviously there needs to be you know quick egress uh from our Public Safety vehicles to do that and granted we

076have you know signalization and everything that's been put in place but um you know anytime you're adding that volume ex exactly right exactly um they provided no storm water plan so it's been really really hard to evaluate what the storm water impact would be uh again I'll draw a comparison to um you know what we saw with the mill proposal where we had an idea of what they were thinking of from a storm waterer perspective uh using underground systems and things like that you know we could we could point out where that could be a concern we really didn't have that much of an opportunity with this so um I think given all of that information or lack of information you can say um you know I have you know that the board uh is

077not supportive of this project as as it's presented and uh is asking Mass housing to to deny it as as presented you ever mention did we ever mention the fact that this proposed project is directly across from the bracket Reservoir and the potential storm water coming off of that could potentially be an issue to the bracket res I don't think I mentioned specifically bracket reservation um but I did mention the fact Joe that you know given the pitch of the site the fact that there's a lot of ledge so you're not going to have a lot of infiltration you know both during construction and after construction you want to be concerned about the runoff I'm just pitch I'm just wondering if that may have been or could be a potential issue for them you know

078yeah I mean I can certainly add some spec specificity to that seems like a good idea um because you know the other thing is you're talking about again the pitch of the site and I know they plan on flat fattening it to a certain extent but it's it's not going to be that way throughout the whole site you know you don't want to have a whole lot of water run off that washes onto Waverly Street or 135 that could freeze over especially you know that presents some challenges as we know that all too well from the public safety building right well and from Cirrus right I mean that's built on a huge hill and the amount of problems they had and they and they had plans for their retaining pool and things like that so

079yeah yeah prior to being built so we were able to see that well and then as they built it they had issues yeah so we did um so in addition to our letter you know I did like similar to the last packet include the information that we had received from other boards um and then also the information that we received from the public and putting the form up and everything online questions or comments speaking of storm water um I just have a question Mike you know in terms of the I know we talk about our our sewer um that all of our waste water goes through Framingham and that's thrown into Municipal agreement and um so so so we're at capacity in terms of or maximum what we are allowed to put through Framingham at

080this point yeah so there's different there's different limits Claudia so there's like an annual limit there's uh a daily limit there's a peak limit and uh with regards to the Framingham IMA um we exceed what's allowable under our Peak limit at certain periods like during certain storms and things like that okay so and and is it because um is there more capacity that that would be on us to purchase or is there not that capacity even out there there's potentially capacity that we could we could purch you know the other thing that you hear us talk about in terms of being able to expand our capacity is working hard on our inii program um and making sure that any kind of leaks that we have in the system that contribute to what is flowing in

081as as part of our sewage is that's just regular groundwater is cut off so that preserves uh that capacity for actual sewage to flow right so there's you know but in the meantime if you know how do we add all these units if we we can't or there isn't the capacity to to send the Wastewater through I I I think that is a a good question pretty good basic problem that is a a good question it's a pretty straightforward problem already said that the sewer moror well that that well the housing moratorium housing the sewer went the the SE was okay yeah okay although just remember you know with a 40b project like I they don't that do impact them yeah but if there's if there I I just don't understand you know if there

082isn't the capacity to do it then well there's I mean and that is a broader conversation Claudia that's happening across the state especially with the NBTA communities law because there are some communities that don't have sewer and and so you know talking about you know putting projects in at a density of 15 units per acre um um you know developing a septic system and having a a piece of property that can handle a septic system that would or an on-site Waste Water treatment PL right um it's very very it's one of those open-ended questions that the state didn't necessarily think about when they went through and and passed this quote unquote well-intentioned law you know and then again in their proposal these are all apartments there's no nothing that no home ownership involved in this

083correct it's all rental um and all and that doesn't have to be the case with a 40b correct right you you can have home ownership you can have home ownership um and obviously there's benefits uh to each each one um you know the primary benefit to the town for the rental units is that uh 40b you get to count all of the units towards your affordable housing inventory which gets you closer to that 10% which in turn allows you to turn away 40b projects that are not necessarily desirable um whereas with ownership projects you're only allowed to count the the affordable units the true affordable units okay and why that is I I still have not been able to get a straight answer and if and if the the real goal is to give people

084the opportunity to have you know perhaps ownership then it would seem to me that if if you're doing it for for that reason right which is supposedly the reason this is happening that 40 BS are in place they are to provide affordable housing and I would think in the longterm some kind of ability to purchase and own then you need a you need a stepping ground right you you can't people aren't going to get ever get into the market for the most part if they don't have lower I don't know that their idea is that we're going to provide affordable housing and that's going to get get more people in the market I think the idea behind a 4B yes they can do they can do purchase but the idea is just how how can

085we increase the affordable housing stock right and we're seeing more and more rentals rather than home ownerships right you're not seeing condos which is what you used to see in buildings like this right they would be Condominiums and part of it probably the affordability or the long-term profitability there's a lot right and yeah possible Market Market factors really I would imagine Drive these sort of decisions C like in so far as these developers and what's profitable to them and what's not out rentals yeah no I understand that what the developers are in it for what I'm saying is what is the the state in it for right yeah yeah I think you know certainly you know when 40b was um Incorporated in the late 60s you know the world that we live in Massachusetts was

086very very different in a number of different ways I do know with like the NBTA communities law you know what the the overarching goal is even though I think the state has done a horrible job of really kind of saying this is from an economic development perspective and the concern that you have high- wage highly skilled workers that are leaving the state to other parts of the country because of high housing costs the idea is to create enough housing to and I would assume you know by just through traditional Market forces bring housing cost down just through flooding the market with units that people will end up staying here my my a lot of years under the beyond that now a lot of years that we have history and it hasn't seemed to have done

087that well I agree and and quite frankly I think you know from one of the things that I've had a hard time with with the MBTA communities law is that you know those highly skilled High wage earners that are leaving the state because of housing are not leaving to find cheaper Apartments they looking to find cheaper single family homes they want get and that's just antidotal information on well and I would say I would go so far as to say that maybe single family homes aren't necessarily everyone's goal any longer that that too has changed some I would agree Fair ass but I think that ownership the ownership piece probably still is there particularly for that those those people who are leaving the state because they're highly educated and they want um you know to

088work and be able to buy something I I think there's they don't want to live in an apartment for right I mean I think there's a lot of complexity around this issue and you know I I think that there you know 20 years ago 25 years ago a strategy for uh folks I think in that meeting those demographics would probably be to initially rent and be able to save money to be able put a down payment on the house uh anecdotally that's kind of how my hubby and I did it um but you know Market forces as they are availability how it is some of these apartments I'm looking at these rental prices they're almost as much as or even more than you know a mortgage situation so like the question is to Michael's point

089you know what kind of you know what what's happening here how are we achieving these goals um and then of course there's also the issue of you know not just the high you know people who are making a lot of money aren't the only ones who are having trouble trying to find a place to live you know so there's affordable housing and there's low-income housing there's a general housing crisis you know in the Northeast in our our city and I to all of your points I don't know if current policy uh direction or recommendations are addressing any of this adequately right um so you know I mean personally I I I think you know what the state should be concentrating on is more on the wage end you know um but that that's just me

090I can't remember if it was the times or the globe that did an article a couple weeks ago just doing an analysis of renting versus owning because they are talking about the fact that more more people now are choosing to rent and making that choice as Oppo and choosing consciously not to own that's right and they go through the the financial factors but of course it makes sense in some cases to rent only because housing prices now are so high VIs you know what your what people's incomes are what interest rates interest rates exactly money's expensive but it used to be that you did that you rented so that you could save money because it was cheaper to rent than it was to exactly own but the other thing to remember is this is all

091cyclical right it is I mean I remember when we were buying our you know we we were we did the same thing we rented an apartment for a number of years then we look to buy I think our interest rates were 11 12 133% to buy our first condo wow right in the '90s that's what interest rates were for things yeah yeah depending in the 80s even higher right and then they went back down and and now they're going back so it's it's just like housing and work and interest they're all it's all cyclical our economy is cyclical getting they're taking notes Here economics economics a little e economics 101 we're sort of going a little off track but um any other questions or comments specifically to the comment letter that has been pulled together

092any changes or anything like that that you need to see so my question is are we planning to kind of Workshop this because I'm I'm not or or maybe we take a bit of a break and we have a chance to actually read this because I don't know if I'm comfortable voting on The Letter without having a chance to actually read the letter disagree I I think that's fair Randy because I to be honest I haven't really had a chance to really look at it or okay you just got absorb it so so either way like if we want to Workshop it together we could do well we could either Workshop it together or we could take 10 minutes and with that I mean some of it is similar to what we saw for the

093other letter um so either we can walk through this Michael took took us through some of it or we can take a 10-minute pause and have the opportunity to read through it which what are people feeling I mean the the other thing Yolanda is I mean I don't have a a time like like noon tomorrow that it has to be in like it has to be in tomorrow so you know if you wanted to look at it overnight and provide me comments you know tomorrow during the day I can spend time um I'd rather take 10 minutes and read it through and then we can have some consensus and that that would be helpful for everybody because you're going to need our vote on it and I'm not comfortable voting until I read it so

094disagree on yeah okay okay great that's okay so Mackie I don't know if you can put something up on the screen we're going to take a 10-minute pause so we can read through this document and then we'll be back at 8:30 so if you're watching e e e