Sustainability Committee Forum 4/6/2024 LIVE 2pm

001and uh around education um but in line with the comprehensive plan work that's happening in line with some of the other changes that have been happening and especially given uh a recent effort that we did around the tree dialogue you know generated a lot of angst um we felt that it was time for one for for us to reconnect with with the community two to refresh ourselves frankly we're getting a little bit worn out uh falling into a little bit of a rut so I think we certainly look from the sustainability committee to try and get some energy out of this but more most importantly to align ourselves to what the needs of the town are so my hope is through this forum that we'll we'll start getting that a little bit we're holding two

002of these we doing one today and there's another one on Thursday uh at 7:00 that we're keeping as curely as a zoom session uh and like I said this session is being recorded as well um okay so that said my camera is over but whatever um we're going to do two things today one um we are proposing a new warrant article well actually it's an old warrant article but we're bringing back a warrant article around the opt-in stretch code um but I want to put that in context of why it's important uh you know we've been asked a number of times even with the Tre bog why is this important so I'm going to try and place some level of context I'm not going to spend a humongous amount of time on it um but

003but at least kind of show you the kind of priorities that we are focused on and and maybe give you a little bit of an explanation of why we focused on those priorities um the second thing is I will talk to you about the opt-in code My Hope Is that's me doing the talking that last maybe about 25 minutes or so and after that for the remaining time I'd really like to try and shift the conversation so that you're doing more of the talking uh we do plan to use the comprehensive plan suggested meeting in the walk framework but candidly to gather sustainability feedback but candidly we've adapted it um more to use it as a tool to construct a conversation and and to do a discussion um but but we did want to try

004and focus that more towards sustainability and our hope is um that that that we'll find that tool useful we're a small enough group that if you don't like that format we can change the format uh and and and we can adapt it and if you prefer just doing straight up talking we can do that too all right so on that note let me get let me get uh the presentation portion of this at least going um if you'll give me a second oh wait sorry it's not my machine so there you go all right I do have a habit of speaking extremely fast if you think I'm doing that tell me I'll slow down right oh uh thank you I I don't know how to do that though there's there so working well might help

005if I stop sping might help if I stop pressing the standby button and actually press the on button uh it did do something so hopefully I uh I think I think it's it's flashing over there so I can see it it turned from red to green and just coming up I think um it's been a while since I've had to do projectors because everything in my life these days is zoom so uh and does This Thing automatically go to the projector or do I have to do something with it Ash you're warming up one thing it occurred to me you know we select for looking at this whole 40b permit process and you know thinking about sustainability factors involved in that development so I'll you know give me a chance to speak to i' be

006asking for feedback and input as to that part of the process perect perfect perfect Perfect all right okay so uh for those of you who don't know us right uh we've been our major Focus continues to really focus on achieving Net Zero so back in 19 I think it was that that the town sort of voted to achieve set a goal for ourselves for you know try and Achieve uh Net Zero carbon by 20240 it's a little bit more aggressive than the the state goal I will tell you we're not on track um but but um our Focus then started trying to achieve you know really focused on trying to come up with strategies that would help us achieve 2040 right so uh during that work we have run a greenhouse gas survey we've uh

007you know try just trying to understand the basic data that that should guide our strategy we've come up with a plan we actually the town adopted you know the strategy portion of that plan at least uh and then we've done some incremental work around engagement around talking to people uh on on on multiple forums as I talked about it uh we provided feedback on on major uh projects that the town might be doing um and in addition you know we sponsored sponsored a number of warrants that that are really in line with that Net Zero plan uh most recently an ex-member of ARS rob you know really led the foundation of the energ ason group which is brilliant you know we were trying to get some uh you know Grassroots effort going in town around

008around sustainability as well um and as I said we we have run into a few challenges we're a pretty small team a lot of us have been serving on the board for for a period of time so there is a l level of fatigue that's set in uh at this stage uh because you know kind of get into the little bit of rut so again one of the reasons that that that we wanted to do it we have had some churn on the committee as well so we've got thankfully now a little bit of new members as well Amanda's on uh but but you know we've had limited engagement so that that as I gave you on my on my uh start off right um that that's a part part of the point of this

009um so what I really need from you right now is to help us refresh our vision and focus areas right um Joel told me that he's going to come in and and and yell at me a little bit I actually want you to yell at me that's great right but yell about all points of you uh give me like 20 minutes and then then you can yell at me uh so so you know but then just yelling at me is not sufficient actually get engaged uh actually help us through these efforts because you know it's easy to just tell us what to do um without necessarily having full context so get involved you know help us sort of form the points of you you know and and that would be that would be really appreciated

010um and then very very shortterm I I certainly hope that that that you'll come into town meeting and help us support the the adoption of the opt-in code uh you know so that that's very narrow um I'm not going to spend a lot of time on all of these slides but the important thing to take away from this one is you know this is what really is informing a lot of our thinking uh the data on this slide right uh and and what we really were trying to get away from get out of this slide was which areas of focus are there which contribute the most to carbon in in town right and how we should think about it right so uh and and the biggest thing to take away is it basically splits between

011buildings and transportation right we don't have a lot of industry in town as such so it really breaks down between building and transportation and when you kind of keep that in mind when when people ask me why are you focusing on the initiatives that you're focusing on the reason why we focus on it is because if we have to try and solve for a Net Zero carbon goal it's really about achieving a balance it's about reducing emissions and then finding way to expand the absorption effects that might exist uh and because the reality is I don't care what we do collectively we're not going to reduce emissions enough to basically go to zero right that there there's no Pathway to that right now so all you can do is do the most you can be

012the most efficient you can to reduce your emissions reduce that that impact but then find ways to sort of absorb it as well which is why we've kind of focused in the recent past on a on a few key key items right so we focused on energy Supply we've been working with Michael others to make sure that the supply of energy to the town is coming from 100% renewable sources especially as it cons concerns the electric grid right we haven't however at this stage had the opportunity or frankly the appetite in town to go straight out ban fossil fuels in town right um the state makes it really difficult to do that anyway there are programs out there in the state I certainly have members of my committee that that have advocated very heavily that

013we should try and get a home home rule adjustment and just try it out uh just like Brooklyn Brooklyn and some of the other towns have done it uh you know but we did we did advocate for it you know we we've certainly voted on it as a town uh in a town meeting uh letting letting the senator know you know and letting letting our Representatives know that that astion really wants to see that happen uh but separate from that what we have done is at least for municipal buildings we have passed uh warrant articles that say that uh you know the town government itself is going to start one counting for the cost of carbon in the life cycle and two we'll start actually considering things that don't use fossil fuel first unless there's

014just no way that you can make it work right because in some cases for example for the fire engine you know moving to a fully electric fire engine is really not feasible technology wise yet right um so that's happened but the important thing there is that our Focus has been on let's try and shift things towards electricity and then make that grid you know as renewable as we can right so that's number one the second buildings obviously you saw in the previous chart right they make up a big portion um and and it's mainly around heating cooling you know those are the things that really contribute so a shift towards that we've run programs around it um but but there our priority is really the expansion of use of things like heating pumps for both

015commercial and residents and then we'll talk about the stretch code and the optin code right now uh but we're also recommending to the select board that you know we we do invest in or or at least consider um you know passing approval for a face program do a lot more education on it uh you know so those are areas of focus Transportation then uh you know is is around EVs and EV uh charging infrastructure um but but also be thoughtful about and this is where we want to try and influence the comprehensive F and this is more shortterm on the slide but be thoughtful about how as a town we want to live and play you know uh in terms of whether it's public transportation or you know how we should think about rail transit

016district and the fact that we have Community rail in town right those are key decisions to make because those are the things that will allow us to kind of reduce the usage of private cars that said the reality is that Ashen is a Suburban neighborhood you know uh are depending on where you live in town pretty much for everyone even unless you're living right next to it supermarkets are about between 4 to 7 Miles Away you are going to drive somewhat right so how do we think about the planning of the town so that we can reduce that and make more of the common areas in town sort of more walkable more friendly so that you don't have to necessarily drive to everything um so that that's sort of a big component and then on

017the absorption side of the world you know uh I think this is where we got into a lot of debate this year especially around you know the tree BW and one of the reasons why I pulled back from the tree byaw is you know really thinking about what are the right strategies to follow to really create the the kind of ecosystem support and and controls in place so that that we are retaining and maintaining but also expanding the the natural systems that help us absorb carbon right so those hopefully give you anide idea and again I I'll just keep moving here so if you if you've now kind of got a concept of the why we're doing what we're doing there's a heavy push towards electrification one question I get asked pretty often is while

018the electric grid is not 100% renewable even if you're buying credits and and our aggregation program is renewable just shifting to Electric doesn't eliminate fossil fuels the reality is that that's the one part of the energy Network that actually is Shifting towards renewable energy and has probably the most likely path towards going as renewable as we can as a as as a country right so so that's why the move towards electrification sort of has the most promised because the reality is if you keep building houses or keep building keep driving cars that use gas then you're using it you're using a fossil fuel anyway and that you're going to burn it uh so there's no way of reduction there right all right so let's talk about the stretch code uh and again I promise I'll

019spend uh as little time but I'd love for you to ask questions right what is the opt-in code we presented this uh I think it was uh two Town meetings back um the the the opt-in code did not pass you know uh but what the optin stretch code is is um Massachusetts released this as an addition to the stretch code right so we are a green Community we've been a green Community for uh I think a a few years now uh and we already have the stretch code that applies to us um but the opt-in code really takes it up a level it's intended to try and meet Massachusetts goals uh towards achieving Net Zero by 2050 uh personally we don't feel it goes quite far enough but it's the best thing we have right

020now uh and the goal really is to promote sustainability increase Energy Efficiency but most importantly stop investing in fossil fuel based new buildings right so so it doesn't impact existing buildings but really impacts the new capacity that'll be get that'll be getting built now and will likely live for the next 30 30 to 100 years in town um so it really starts thinking about how we can sort of move that towards a more sustainable uh building um slightly busy slide but you know I've talked about this already so I won't drain it but but the reality is that buildings are that largest source of emissions for Ashlin right and if we don't change the way we heat and cool our buildings there's no way we're achieving any of the goals that we've set out there

021right and so the the shift right now it's about 2 to four this this is slightly dated graphic but you know 2 to 4% of our buildings are you know largely electric you'll notice that vast majority is still natural gas and oil and even though we've made good progress in the recent past with at least the two big projects that we took on in town from for municipal buildings where they are Net Zero ready you know most of the new houses that are being built still do rely on fossil fuel right so what the stretch code would do then is really expand past the uh sorry the specialized code would do then is uh expand past the the stretch code so you know there are three of them you've kind of got it so I'm

022actually going to go to what it does um all right so what it contains in it is that all new buildings must must either be fully electric or should be pre-wired for electric and that's that's an important distinction in that this the optin code does not ban fossil fuels it doesn't require that all buildings that that all buildings be electric there is a pathway there are multiple Pathways actually uh listed in the in the code that require you to use fossil fuels but then it increases the efficiency requirements for those buildings right uh so but the the important thing here is that it actually requires that even if you're using a fossil fuel so if you're using natural gas for heating your house it is being built in a manner so that the wiring for

023you to switch to fully electric is already built into the house uh it is much cheaper while the house is being built while the walls are open for you to put the wiring in versus trying to retrofit afterwards so so thank you so so that's that's that's precisely what it does it just says put the DK pre-wiring in and then you have optionality in the future right the second thing it does say is buildings that you're using fossil fuels must include onside solar right so it's really offsetting then the use of fossil fuels and expanding the the um the the renewable capacity uh for the state for the town as well right um but again there are exemptions there so if it's a a shaded lot you know you do you you can actually apply

024and get an exemption for it uh and then for large buildings um whether it's a new single family house that's greater than 4,000 s ft or you know multif family homes that are greater than 12,000 s ft that's where the the requirements do get more stringent so you in those cases either go full electric or become a passive home which basically means that you're um effectively at the Net Zero level your consumption of energy is effectively being balanced out in other ways um you know so so the go goal here is really to take it and sort of say all new buildings must either be fully electric or if they're not then they should at least have pre- wirring um they should have if if you are using fossil fuels then it should have solar

025and that's pretty much it that's that's the sort of simple piece that's left uh because there was a lot more complexity when we tried to adopt this early on like a couple of years back uh or was it a year back uh sorry um and a lot of the requirements that were very confusing now are actually going to become part of the stretch code in July 2024 anyway so we as a green Community already have that as our base code effectively um all those things are going to apply to us anyway so voting for the opt-in code effectively gives us these additional sort of three things in there um because everything else is sort of just simplified out now what's the effective dat it get voted so if it gets adopted at town meeting we

026have to take at least months to for for it to go into effect so it would be January 2025 that would actually go into effect and that's primarily so that people can adopt adapt it and can uh you know we can go through training in our case we've actually done a lot because Doug and others in town have actually done a lot of work on this already and you know have started sort of aligning to it um so you know it should really not be that heavy a lift at this stage want a question that uh you know you can ask me questions I'm just curious because I talk to somebody the building commission and there seems to be some still confusion about what what it is and what they're already doing right now are

027you sure that that the town really knows the difference between the street and what what's going on in July to begin with because I think still confus so I I I I I can't talk about everyone in town uh obviously I can't possibly try and say that everybody in town is not confused people I'm talking to the people who are sort of actually running with this thing I would say there there should not be confusion because I've certainly had those conversations um if there are people who are having confusion you know we have now a fairly sizable body of materials that we can share I'm personally happy to have a conversation and help clarify any doubts there are uh and we're not the only ones at this stage there are more than 33 towns that

028have adopted it this is fairly well understood at this stage um you know uh and and and again the the data on this uh the the the the clarity on this is actually quite good uh We've also made the step of actually engaging with Dylan Patel who's actually from the doar he's been engaging with Sam directly oh he's right here sorry I I I I I saw you walk out uh so you know he's been with us he's been actually guiding us so we have access to to resources you know very directly uh and uh you know Dylan's been very kind with his time as well he's also working I think him and his colleagues are working with uh um with Hopkinton as well uh who's also considering the same thing so we're no longer

029an isolated Community who's trying to do this right it's actually a fairly well understood process at this stage CH I just want to say you know building codes are complicated and none of us are going to understand these completely you know that's what we just keep in mind for the recording won't be able to hear you so uh why don't you reserve your comment let me just get through the next two slides and then you can come back and and and and pro provide you this thing I I I'll give it the mic to you in in a second we want to miss yous yeah all right for for those of you who can't hear it um uh we're effectively letting Chuck know that we wouldn't want to miss his wisdom uh all right so

030but in reality though you know these are the three things that are the differential at this stage between what we already will have in July 2024 and and are oping into the to the stretch code and Dylan if I mentioned anything wrong there you know feel free to come up here so perfect thank you and and you are the expert there so so we'll we'll we'll uh take your word on it all right um some things you should know these were questions that really came up at the last town meeting or questions that have been asked you know uh first one this Cod code only applies to new construction no one's going to make you go change your existing though personally I think there's so many incentives out there right now that if you are

031at a life cycle change where your hwac is going out you really ought to be going towards a towards a heat pump or or you know or or or a electric based uh you know water heater at this stage right but regardless this code focuses on new construction two there's now plenty of data and I'm happy to share that data uh you know around the the added construction cost and and depending on the study it's you know I'm I'm being fairly wide ranging here right but most studies actually talk about it as being under 1% change and I've actually got a couple of studies that I can I can refer to right now if I do get question but um the the reality is that it's about 1 to 4% but then if you take

032into account sort of all the incentives that are in place right now as well as the life cycle of the property you know in terms of running the property itself right uh which is what which is one of the things that we asking the town to do now when they start considering decisions like this is to actually think about full life cycle cost um then then it actually does go to under 1% you know differential at this stage and the data by the way is not not just about very large buildings the data I'm talking about you know is inclusive of commercial it's inclusive of highrises it's inclusive of affordable housing for that matter uh where where you know there there's pretty clear you know uh at this stage or especially over the last three

033years with pretty clear uh um data that that that building Net Zero is is actually now becoming you know actually just like anything else um the the code is not a ban on fossil fuels right uh there was concerns personally I would go for it even if it was there but but there are concerns in the community so I will put that out there as well um you know there are multiple paths to complying to the code and then uh the the other piece is we have as a town always been a little bit of a leader you know we haven't always been on the very tippy tippy edge of everything but we've been pretty far out there uh especially as you look at the communities that are surrounding us um in fact it was

034a little disappointing that when ashon chose not to adopt the opt-in code the fact that Ashen chose not to to adopt the optim code was actually used as a rationale at other Town meetings of surrounding towns because they said ashon didn't do it so we shouldn't do it um but separate from that we've actually always been at the at the uh we have always been seen as a climate leader right um we were one of the first communities to adopt the the uh Green community uh designation as well and uh Dylan's actually leading an effort right now where we've got a climate leader program that's coming out so that's sort of the version 2.0 of green communities uh and one of the requirements for you to be be a climate leader is the adoption of

035the optin code um it's also the you know existence of a of a team like a sustainability committee right so so we actually check off a lot of the boxes this would be one of the boxes we have to check off that we can't today and once we do achieve that designation it does unlock a whole bunch of additional ground opportunities and we've successfully leveraged the the green communities ground opportunities um I think I've got slightly dated data because Sam was out so I couldn't quite get it and updated this but I know of at least about 700k of ground opportunities that Ashland has received and I think we may have done a little bit more than that so you know I I didn't want to use uh inflated number so I'm kind of going

036with the more conservative number on that one uh this is a list of some of the communities I know there are actually a couple more that I'm missing here uh you know I haven't quite updated the the the list continues to grow I think uh you know pretty consistently uh but about 31 to I think at this stage it's about 33 uh communities um we've talked a lot about this um here are some of the source on data sorry my slide seems to have gotten a little munched up when I converted it but you know um some of the data I was talking about I'm not going to drain it but if someone's interested I'm happy to share them share links out with them but again the the takeaway here is you know it's in

037that you know 1 to 4% range and you'll notice with the graph out there you know it is pretty much all types of properties uh the most interesting study actually was uh the built environment plus uh study because they've actually been aggressively going after collecting data for Net Zero building specifically right and they've been Now tracking especially since 2021 to 2023 so it's actually very recent they just published in February 20123 this data set um where they've been tracting about 30 million square ft of built Net Zero built built area uh buildings and you know of those about 7 million have reported their cost and the the chart that you actually see on the side is actually an aggregation of that 7 million um so this is real data I'm not making it up right

038and it does sort of go all all all through the the difference things the details we we won't drain this year I've kind of already summarized this up for you uh but but you know this is the actual code itself and you the thing to take away here as well is you know again the things in yellow are the things that would really apply because of the optin code everything else is sort of already factored in uh you know anyway um and that's um you know a little bit about the climate leader program that was sort of the bulk of what I wanted to kind of share about the opt-in code I'll pause now um someone wants to ask a question I'll be happy to ask ask question answer questions or if you've got a

039comment you know I'll I'll step aside and and let you can I make a few comments can you put that last slide up as well real quick I just want picture which one I I can send you the slides you don't have to take pictures yeah this one this one yeah than I'm I'm happy to send you links to the studies as well um so yeah Ash has the technology well thank you Ash that was a great presentation so for those of you who don't know me uh my name is Robert Sher I'm the current chair of the ashin select board and the select board has um supported this uh article for uh at town meeting and so I would urge um everyone watching this to come out and support it Ash has made a

040very effective presentation uh this will be our second or third attempt at this um and I do want to you know as I look out on a lot of my friends on sustainability here the um you know I would um you folks have been on the front line of of us achieving our Net Zero plan which started what three years ago and so it's a it's a set of small steps and I would just ask you to stay involved I intend to stay involved uh and no matter what role I'm in and you know we're all aware of how important this is for not only for us but for our children and and grandchildren I have another I have a new my first grandchild was just born so imagine thank you imagine the world that

041he's going to be living in if we don't fix this right so I mean that's really the essential reality here so um uh the one thing and the other thing I wanted to point out um in terms of uh the pipeline of of new development which we're all aware of and some of us think um have various opinions about the type of housing being built and how much there should be but there is without a doubt A continuing uh building and so it would really be I think extremely unfortunate if these large developments are built uh without this stretch code being in effect and also in this stretch code if I understand it still allows use of gas uh fossil fuel so and that's I think really another unfortunate point if that continues and I

042think we need to think about using all our resources to work with developers um and as an example this committee was extremely successful in dealing with two of the largest uh recent large town buildings the mindz school and the public safety building have air source heat pumps and uh some kind of hybrid system so that was really a great success which you folks should um you know uh thank you know um feel proud about uh so and I I just want to you know we should think about how we can continue that Trend in the commercial buildings we've got a lot in the pipeline and that's another reason that this should be passed as soon as possible I asked about the effective date we've got a number of of um you know projects in the

043pipeline and the other thing I want point out is many of you were involved in the eversource pipeline issue do you remember that so we haven't heard about it for a few years so we all think it's hopefully dead but if you remember they wanted to expand the gas pipeline going through ashin one of their rationals was increase demand in the future for for natural gas and we basically made a case to them that that wasn't necessarily so and the administration pretty much supports that position because you should be doing air source heat pumps and electricity Etc so we're not going to expand gas pipelines so but we need to keep the pressure on to prove ourselves right that there isn't a need a demand for increased gas so you know look at what you're

044doing in the face of all these things we want the eversource gas pipeline to stay a Dead Issue to not come back so anyway but I appreciate you letting me speak here and um I would just one thing to think about concretely in the next few weeks as we do these um uh meetings about this 40b permit and people get input not only to the comprehensive plan but that whole process think about the best way to work with the developer about making sure that they're going electric they're putting on solar panels they're minimizing the use of gas uh by the way we've had a number of incidents with gas scares at one of our new uh apartment complexes where people the gas is being left on and people are calling the fire department and we're

045in incurring Municipal costs to deal with a relatively new process that uh that probably should have done something different frankly but anyway so thank you for those comments yes well that's a good question uh right now we have oh so I got a question about the 40b public input process so um we talked about our meeting last week and decided to have a p in effect a public forum session at our next meeting on April 17th which is a regular select board meeting and then a followup after town meeting our first meeting which I think is around May 15th I want to say so that's the current state of it now it's a good question of whether we should have instead of doing it at our meeting at a regular select board meeting to have

046a special public forum so that's an interesting question we didn't have that discussion but if it seems like there's a lot of um interest and maybe that's worthwhile as a separate thing but we're going we've set up systems to collect um uh comments as I think you know so go to the town website and look at that in the Facebook page so that process is really just beginning but does that answer your question great all right thank you all does anybody have questions for me or no so it's just the topic slate so good so um a couple things one is um you know we're going to hear that oh it's much more expensive to run um air source heat pumps um and that's true in the short run but in the long run it's

047going to go the other way and it's a little complicated to explain this but the way the gas company prices gas is that they get um they get a 10% return on what they've invested every year for 20 years which is to say they make some money of this which of course they're in business they should right um and the problem is that you know that the the return comes out of the number of rate payers and as you begin to get fewer and fewer rate payers because of all the things that the state and the FEDS are doing to encourage electrification you get uh the cost is the the amount that they're getting back is not cut it's just over fewer and fewer rate payers until until of course it gets unbelievably expensive to

048use gas and the catch here is that of course the people who are going to pay that are the people in apartments where the landlord doesn't want to invest any more money and of course it will be the poorest people in the community the people who by and llarge people who live in apartments tend to be poorer than the rest of us um so I just want everybody to understand that yes okay this year maybe the next five years it's going to be a little more expensive to have um uh air source heat pumps although not ground Source heat pumps um but that's a short-term process CH can I ask you a question it's not whoever your discussion reminded me pilot projects with ground Source heat networks that the gas company is doing in various

049places and framing him the PIP pipeline are we in a pipeline for that at all I don't believe so D might actually be in a better position answer that okay so I don't believe Ashland is and uh so there are two projects there are two separate programs going on one is by a nonprofit called heat um he not he a um and they're doing um they've been funding feasibility studies um for I think 10 10 to 15 uh towns and I don't think um Ashland is one of them however I think they'll you know once that is all done um hopefully they can um increase the number of projects that they're funding um the other is within do and so um when and if Ashlin becomes a climate leader we might um we might consider

050funding studies um and then eventually the investment program for it for for Network geothermal um right now under our climate leaders program we um are considering enhanced incentives for the studies and for the investment in building level ground Source heat pumps but um I can't guarantee this but um we might consider in the future once the once all of these Pilots are done and you know the economics works out we could consider um Network geothermal you tell back so yes I'm apologize for arriving late um there was traffic but um I I'm Dylan Patel um I am a the northeast regional coordinator for the green communities program within the department of energy resources I've been working with um Ash on organizing um this this hearing this public meeting and I've also been working with about

051a dozen um a dozen municipalities so far this spring actually and maybe about 15 in total um on the specialized stretch code yes can you talk a little bit about the climate leader program of course so um the the climate leaders program is a program that we are rolling out this year it's not going to replace the green communities program it's going to like I said it's going to provide enhanced incentives and I use that word very generally because um we have a funding mechanism for that but the you know we haven't done the calculations yet so there we can't give any details um about how much we can fund but essentially Once a community becomes designated as a climate leader and the designation process has five criteria of which the specialized stretch code is

052one having committee is another one um the the municipality would be eligible for two sets of Grants one is your more your non- Capital intensive grants so things like paying for feasibility studies engineering studies um funding for I mean you have an energy manager but for um municipalities that don't for uh for that position um and for your Capital intensive projects we can fund reable energy so solar ground Source heat pumps um and other kinds of technologies that fall without fall outside of our Green community scope thank you for for for making I know you had another commitment and so thank you for doing that great resour if You' got questions on you op in C you know I I'm not the expert here so so honestly if you have questions right question hi yeah

053hi quick question on the opin code yes because I thought I remember this from previous incarnations where we discussed this as a community yeah is there any is are these uh codes required for future development and and developers need to adhere to those codes or and in in making that a requirement if that's the case uh do developers somehow benefit from this are we offering them uh more lenient zoning codes in any way in other words is is there a is there a trade being made here I'm going to call it a bargain with the devil okay I understand the question now so there is no tradeoff um a a any new developer has to abide by whatever code is in place within that community be it base stretch specialized there are no um well

054there I mean there are rebates that um the developer can access through Mass Save through the IRA and that's what helps drive down the cost and that's what makes the specialized stretch code cost competitive but there are no um accelerated decision making shall we say um should should a develop uh you know abide by this because it's it's sub everybody's subject to it so there's no special treatment because everybody is is subject to it if you had to make a case that you don't agree with of here are a few of the drawbacks that are commonly perceived what would they be okay so there's the big two one is that um a lot of Builders and developers are pushing back on our cost estimates which is very fair because they they have the experience they

055have the Practical knowledge of actually doing everything um um to that and I I understand that you know with the way the economy is right now we are seeing a lot of inflation we are seeing a lot of supply chain issues so um I would respond to that in two ways in one is that I think that's a short-term issue I think over the medium to long term we're going to see interest rates decrease we're going to say uh building materials hopefully the the supply chain issues will resolve themselves the other is that the feedback I've heard from a lot of Builders is that oh we just going to have to spend a lot more in insulation and insulating the crap out of sorry insulating the the entire thing so many times over yeah we

056we've got the First Amendment which was great um I'm not going to claim that I have more experience than than a builder but I think insulation doing more insulation is not always the right answer you've got to do the air ceiling so where you have have the the wall um hitting the hitting the ceiling you've got to do the you know the firm insulation the closing all of those gaps making sure the building is airtight and not and that goes beyond the you know the slab the wall and the attic instulation that's really making sure any gaps that you have are sealed and I think that's what a lot of in my opinion I think that's maybe what a lot of Builders are missing the other is a kind of a worry that um there's

057not there's either not enough grid capacity or there's not enough electrical capacity at the house so um I completely agree that we are seeing a shortage of uh 400 amp panels right now um it's very possible especially with a small to mediumsized house to run all electric on a 200 amp panel um once you go beyond like 4,000 square feet um that's probably why you do want that larger panel again supply chain issue we hope it will it will work out um in terms of grid resiliency we have a lot of policy Direction working on strengthening the grid we have the grid mon modernization advisory Council ever source is investing a lot of money in Grid modernization and you also have to understand in a fossil fuel home your gas boiler or furnace does have

058like an electric computer or an electric pilot it's it that's going to trip out when when the grid goes out so you're not safe even if you have a fossil fuel backup um or sorry fossil fuel heating system um for those who are really worried you can have a fossil fuel based backup generator and you'll still be counted as all electric I have a question for you yes so I mean obviously we're talking about new construction however and I can speak to this when I go up next as well but I love your feedback on this initially there a lot of the confusion is around existing structure you do a thousand foot shake your head it's confusion around it's confusion and I I completely understand but yeah continue please it's a reality in my world

059you know I'm a princi Architecture Firm I do with lots of Builders lots of building inspectors lots of other Architects again I was at the do webinar on the 27th that yeah the the listening session that was pretty intense it was less intense than I thought it would be but it was yes it was yeah so the question is when you have a structure at least what they're telling us you add on a th000 squ ft to a small Caper Ranch in ashin if we do the specialized code does that mean the rest of the house has to be brought up to that same specialized code or if it's 50% of a remodel or greater does it also have to adhere to that as well that is a question I hear a lot from Builders

060that's questions I hear from building inspectors I work throughout New England doing design work in literally with the 351 towns in Massachusetts I have to now speak directly with each of the building Commissioners and inspectors prior to doing design work to get their feedback on what their particular town is doing or what they're implementing it's still with this whole issue the Wild Wild West with how decisions are being made related to the stretch going up to the specialized code in particular with existing structures so for Massachusetts to Net Zero by 2050 how do you get these existing structures to comply when it's incredibly cost prohibitive to do so meaning all new windows the siding has to come off have to put on continuous insulation people that are on fixed incomes cannot afford to do that

061and so what building inspectors are telling us to do is to do an addition at 999 Square fet then if you're doing a remodel pull a permit just for that 999 square feet so you don't have to deal with that particular part of the code it's a fascinating time we're in my friend but how would you answer that question if you go over a th000 square feet would you have to then comply with the specialized code no that's the short answer no absolutely not how about a remodel no so if you combine an addition with a remodel no okay new construction only all right the stretch code is where is where okay so the stretch code is is I think where you you have your beef you're you're concern you're concerns with your you're concerns

062with and so regardless of where what of what Ashlin votes on in the springt meeting um this is going to happen in come July regardless of what happens in town meeting the um after July 1st 2024 for permits pulled for extensive Renovations your long form alterations the specialized stretch code only affects new construction that's it um and there there are two layers of of the trigger you so you're correct that it's a th000 square feet but it also has to be um 50% so it's either if I'm remembering correctly it's a 1,000 square ft or 50% of the conditioned floor area and if it's if it's um if it's an addition it has to be 1,000 square ft and um 100% of the condition floor area so basically has to be a doubling of the

063conditioned floor area so if you do th000 ft and you have a 1200t home it's not going to trigger um well part of that confusion is they're now saying full basement need to comply as part of the square footage that depends if it's conditioned yeah um and so I I completely understand that Builders are frustrated um and I will say that you know do and BBs are you know trying to to get a lot of the um information out Mass Save offers free training um I want to get I really want to you know get that point across massave offers free training for Builders and Architects and Co inspectors um and a few towns have actually organized some in-person trainings for for building uh developers and for um building Commissioners so there's a lot of

064information out there for people um who ever to um understand the intricacies of the stretch code is it fair for me to say that as far as we concerned against just the stretch code already applies to us we are a green community so one way or the other that confusion is going to happen and July those those those changes are going to apply to us regardless the conversation here is the optim code which will then become our new code but everything you just talked about is already in pure existing process because we already have a stret applying to us the discussion here is really more on the op which is purely focused onru is that that's completely correct okay any other question I think you're be here for another few minutes at least I can

065stay as long as I need to my my car's charging so the longer I stay the more gu charge all right then we we'll maybe transition over and see if others have questions sure com so uh Glenn Travis I live on Franklin Road and then I also um I'm the principal at GMT Home Designs it's the same building that Trisha Kendall Works in as well and I love what I do uh we do mostly residential uh design work and then some like commercial projects and the reason why that's important is that uh um I'm a advocate for what you do the sustainability committee I know it sounds like you've grown a little weary but keep fight in the good fight um I you know it's one of those things where you know it's about educating

066the masses right it's about letting people know what are their options and I think for the first time actually in a long time you're the first person to give me a straight answer on my question about a th000 square ft Plus or remodel um a lot of folks are trying figure that out but where the reason why I'm here today as well is number one to say I support what you do so I think that's really critical to know this I do work with a lot of Builders uh throughout the state of Massachusetts trying to figure this whole thing out and a lot of different building inspectors different Architects as well and so where I fall it is I'm a man who drives a Tesla who has 50 solo panels on his roof so I'm

067speaking from a position of I'm all for being green uh there's a whole segment on my website about different material choices consumers can make about being green what has been if I may be frank frustrating since the beginning of 2023 is the adoption of the iecc code related to insulation that's where a lot of the confusion lies meaning the iecc basically talks about the need for dealing with uh thermal brakes which again I just did an addition on my home in 2022 and I added the zip ever see you drive by these buildings see that that zip paneling well you can buy it with rigid insulation as part of that you can get it in different thicknesses and so in order to deal with the air you know the barriers that you're dealing with when

068you have studs in a wall that's an issue of a thermal break when you put a blanket on the outside of a building I.E continuous insulation it deals with that thermal break and then you tape it it's a tremendous uh difference when you go into my 1979 built home and then go into my brand new addition the change in the Heat and the cooling is dramatic because I wrapped that addition in this blanket my point in Sharing all that with you is we have to figure out a way in Ashland to shore with new buildings I'm for and I'm an advocate for adopting this specialized code I think it's fantastic and I'm glad they have still in there so that we can kind of figure this out we've got to be able to walk before

069we can run the ability for people to still use some fossil fuels right even when my House was built there is no you know I it's it's oil heat and so that's like I got to do something so I put on the solar panels and it's made a big difference with the electrical pieces and so what I want to be able to do is get straight answers which I haven't been able to get from the state when it comes to the uh the energy codes with insulation because I've lost clients because I've told them from a conservative perspective you're now if you do over a th000 square fet you're going to need to have a u Val of your windows of3 which is pretty significant and add continuous installation on the rest of your home

070which means removing your siding that's where we've actually lost a number of clients last year because they couldn't afford to do the addition plus wrap their existing house so that's my concern with these communities even in Lincoln I've done projects in Lincoln who have adopted the specializ code um you know I know the inspector Mark well he didn't know how to answer me with it with with a attic remodel of, 1400 Square ft how does that affect the rest of this house and so that's really my question for you is that we're going to have to address that in a very succinct clear way so that the builders in town and the developers in town understand the re reifications of that in a positive way you follow me yeah and so if I can get

071a handle on that I'm an advocate for being green because we're the tip of the spear as a design firm and we want to make sure that we help people come on board with what this means but the cost model has to kind of get in line so where I Fallout is let's do this with new construction but with existing buildings in town or older homes in town we still have to figure out how to deal with that whole retrofit with the insulation thank you Glen just a question yeah thank you for coming to this do you have have you had discussions with our building inspector Doug so Doug I built a relation with Doug when I because I gced the you know 500 foot fil room Edition on my home so I got to

072talk to him pretty regularly then but that was just prior to so I've come in and talked to him about different projects and the answer I do get pretty regularly is well if you're over that threshold of a th000 square fet or 50% remodel or above consult with a hers Raider never in my life have I and and I've been doing this since 2003 consult with a hers Raider since when are the gospel now with a hers Raider which I found to be fascinating because there's so few and far between where a lot of building inspectors are punting on answering the question with these existing structures I don't want to go to town meeting with these kind of without a clear answer at least from our build inspector have you had that discussion Ash so

073I don't think I'm qualified to have a ation because I'm a software developer by profession not not a builder what I will say is that Doug has spent especially since uh yeah especially since we reduced the especially since the the opin code did not pass last year Doug's done a ton of work in I may have stepped on a cable sorry big feet can't help it you know that was my hope that we spend this time resolving these questions yes yeah so we have so so again I I think more recently we've certainly had that conversation I'm happy to go back to Doug and again reconfirm that and you know with with Dylan's engagement now Sam's been working pretty closely with Dylan so we should be able to you know follow through and and I

074think Dylan to your point if if M has that free training I I'll ask you the question like would it be useful to for us to actually maybe bring that to town as well as a as a session that that no question no question because again right now the hers rating that we're seeing is around 55 to 52 so when you go from 55 down to 45 or 42 depending if you're using heat pumps or fossil fuse that dictates that 45 or 52 you want to explain what rating uh he next I mean it's an energy rating system they use software to look at the your home and go okay what kind of heat loss is happening in your home at different areas and so or in order to compensate for that heat loss or

075heat gain you use different building materials for example what we're using now almost predominantly is spray foam insulation which some people are afraid of but I use it quite a bit we have open and close cell spray foam to get to the rating that you need in order for it to pass so years ago the houses in ashin had bad insulation between the studs of r113 which is so little and the air gaps between all that was insane so then when you go to spray foam now there's no gaps now there's no air leakage and then you put a blanket continuous insulation on the outside it's a wellb built home but it's not 1% more for that so spray foam's four times more expensive but it's worth it long term I'll jump in if you

076don't mind yeah because you said a lot of stuff which even I got confused on because again I was confusing yeah because it's it's technical to you I mean it's simple stuff for you rob the way I understand hers rating because I spent a lot of time trying to understand it because it's all over this code think of it as a miles per gallon type rating for your house it's so super simple terms they basically took a house that was built I think in the 196 2006 as the standard and they said that is number 100 yeah okay they gave that a rating of 100 so they averaged it out and said the Energy Efficiency of that house hers literally is home energy rating system right that that's what her stands for and an 2006

077built house that's 100 so from there it goes backwards right so the more efficient the house it's basically saying 100 is the Baseline the lower you go the more efficient your house is so when we talk about it in terms of the the stretch code in July 2024 for example the stretch code will require a hers rating of 45 that means it's going to need to be 55% more efficient than the house that was built in 2006 a good job phenomenal well said but again if you can answer this for the group which I think will answer it for the town Builders and people worried about this is when you have an existing structure and you need to get that hear rating sorry and you need to get that hearse rating of 45 how do

078you do that so for example in natic I had an addition a second story remodel they said you need to adhere to this hearse rating but the rest of the house it doesn't happen so they're going to do a blower tour test which you know it's one way to find out where you're at they're going to seal the whole basically the stair well so at the lower level isn't included in that new hers rating for a second story Edition on say a raise ranch or and so it's it's problematic with existing structures that we're trying to get answers to and so that's that's basically a big reason why I'm here so go oh yeah definitely so um I managed to unplug the projector have no idea what to do with it sorry well I think

079I said I think we're still probably um online um so what what is a possibility that we can do before town meeting is organize a Builders Forum yeah so uh this would be like an online event we can um I'll work with Ash and Samantha and with you invite any and all of the builders within town and um we can give a similar presentation but something that's a little bit more Technical and so what we have do has um we work with a co-c consultant um and we he and I can come on and we can explain the more technical aspects of of the stretch code and the specialized stretch code so that's that's an option that that I can give uh to you all it's just going to require and how it relates to

080the new energy and how it relates to the new energy Cod that's a big thing is this whole energy code how it impacts both yeah so that's something that we can definitely do free um something that might be a little bit might involve a little bit of a cost share or something something would be an actual impass training um only because there's just so much free stuff online and um the the logistics of it as well um again just just in the interest it is important to note that the the issues that we're talking about right now which I'm it's brilliant that we're talking about it and it's really important the the issues that we're talking about right now apply to the stretch code which will come into play in July 2024 regardless of how

081we vote on this thing the stretch code doesn't augment these issues in any way stretch code is just do the pre-wiring and the on-site solar it's actually quite simple in terms of what the the addition is so as far as Town meetings concerned secondly after we vote for it the opt-in court doesn't necess doesn't even go in effect till Jan so so there's actually enough time the the reason why we we've got that time of applicabilities to do precisely this kind of training I think it's a great idea dlan for us to actually organize that Forum I I did a presentation for the ABA which actually had a lot of builders on it um similar slides uh we had a pretty good discussion and I'm more than happy to reach back out to all of

082them you know maybe work with Beth Or with Samantha to actually organize a virtual Forum shot Forum that that sort of helps answer some of these questions if you feel that'll be helpful uh and then we can actually work with the select board to kind of do the investment in in the more sort of detailed form that you've talked about you know which doesn't necess have to happen by town meeting but certainly should happen before July which is when all these things actually start becoming real for all of us regardless of whether we vote or not um the the last thing i' I'd add um there we've so um to monitor AC's compliance with the uh with the green communities um we get a database from resnet to um ascertain uh which buildings are um

083currently meeting the the stretch code which as as you know 5255 even right now before these changes are coming into effect we're seeing several multif family developments going down to the 40s in a it's already happening yeah um I don't think I can give the exact addresses but you know Pawn Street uh for example there's a few thing few things going on down there and so in Ashland in many other cities even though it's not mandated mandated yet we' seen quite a few um projects multif family and single family going down to 45 what we're not getting necessarily is the pre-wiring we're not necessarily getting the onset like those are the things that we really really need because I think you were nodding when I was making the point when you're building the building is

084when you want to put the wiring right uh and and and you know because otherwise you know you're back into the same problem you were talking about which is now you have a house that is th000 s ft plus and you're going to do an addition and now there's actually an uplift cost in trying to bring it into Cod uh you know for the future um which we want to try and avoid um so so if anything this is actually a work for the future rather than anything else um we we've uh spent good amount of time I I didn't want to interrupt the conversation I'm not sure how well you guys are being picked up back there uh okay so uh we've spent a decent amount of time on this topic I just wanted

085to do a call to see you know are there other questions on the opt-in code because I would like to spend at least a little bit of time got a little bit of a Brain Trust going here and and good engagement on on just other priorities that the sustainability committee ought to focus on on as well but again if there are questions that we really ought to be answering right now this is excellent we've got Dyan here you know we've got some engagement here um so so I'll just pause here anybody else have a question on the optin code brilliant okay I'm going to ask Cara to come over then and we'll start talking a little bit about uh sort of a little bit of future strategy stuff uh right so we are going to

086attempt to use the meeting in a box structure that the compreh plan is is using um we are small enough group that we won't break up in too many groups but uh Joel this is where we'll try and kind of get the aspiration and if you guys feel like the construct's not working well we are small enough group we can change the construct right so so let's use the time' got R um to to really make this useful and uh again guide us if you'd rather do it a different way and it's not working let's stop and and and and you know let let's use this time intelligently car I'll hand to you do you actually need that thing working I don't I don't think so I print it out um excuse me so I'm

087Cara Hume um I am on the sustainability committee and as well as the forest committee so Chuck and I represent these committees at the comprehensive plan and when we started this forum um and after a meeting at the comprehensive plan um I just thought this would be a great opportunity to take these sustainability thoughts and concerns and put them also in the comprehensive plan so that this mindset is reflected there as well so um I hope you brought all your sustainability thoughts so that we can Infuse our future with all these great ideas um so the format that um we're going to use here today for that is called a meeting in a box um and so we're going to go over some bigger topics we've kind of condensed it down to four different areas

088um so that we can make the most of our time um as it pertains to sustainability um so um I think I'm going to have maybe what I'll do is I'll have I'll hand out a pen and have everybody sign in um on this front page here just so I can show this is these are the people that contributed to this today um I think if if we want to just jump right into it um the first activity we chose to do um is called a vision for Ashlin in 2034 um so it's starts with um a Community Vision describes what community members want their Community to look and feel like in the next decade which I'm going to add a note that the last comprehensive plan was done well over 10 years ago so

089this will probably carry for longer than 10 years but there's that um it is meant to be hopeful and aspirational it paints a mental image of what the ideal Ashlin will be like in 10 years a vision helps the Community Reach for goals above and beyond what may be expected and discovered possibilities that may not have been apparent before so with this in mind think Pie in the Sky dream and not necessarily be tethered with um all the financial or um other constraints that will exist in the real world um so our first kind of topic and I I'm going to if I'm going to be the Scribe then I'm going to need to sit with my computer but um I'm actually just inv speak so with this being in mind um what does the

090town look and feel like in 10 years I don't like this process ask for feedback I feel like it shouldn't be called meeting in a box I feel like it should be called Boxed In by your meeting form how would you and for me I prepare gal thinking which looks at a big picture thing I don't want to have and then you add the sugar and then you add the salt and how do you feel about salt I would like I have a a theme with an introduction a body and a conclusion and I would like to be able to present I'm happy to do it another time or at the end or not it's actually okay but for me this kind of you know how how do you want to live is is just

091I I've been very unimpressed with the process so far not here but but with the comprehensive plan committee I think we need to have a CommunityWide conversation I was hoping with everyone here we could uh as we have done talk back and forth and discuss issues and ask questions or instead of going down a so so let me do this let me do this that first off for the rest of the group would you rather do what J suggested which is just continue the conversation or would you rather go through a step by step I just want to be respectful for everybody who's here can I I suggest that we do a little bit of both that we go through the format that um car has got up there but that we we need to

092be open to a broader conversation when the topic comes up and not get to constraint okay okay okay one suggestion then maybe is that we could read out sort of the the things that that that Cara prepared and then if you prefer to have the back and forth we'll try and moderate it to some extent so that we at least stay in some level of a Lane right and we just don't go off into we have an hour right so so just keeping that in mind we can continue this conversation we have a second Forum which will be all Zoom uh you know in in 3 days time so all of you want to show up for that we can just continue the convers some of you want to show up we just continue the

093conversation that's okay too that we that way we'll have a good you know 3 hours to work through this um so we had a vision statement right so this was under Vision but one of the questions that we came up with when we were thinking about Vision was what role do you think the town should be taking on to address climate change now is that more specific as far as like a concept that you would be more act I mean like what priorities do you think think of these as uh questions that we've seated it doesn't mean you have to necessarily answer every one of them or any of them you could choose to answer a different question what we're really attempting to do is prompt the conversation more so than anything else that's our

094goal we're not trying to constrain you to a to a box if that makes sense the question is do should we have our vision on how to address climate change the answer is that that's a tiny part of what I want to focus on okay tiny part are there things that you want the town to focus on for climate change and what are those things I would rather put that in the context of a larger picture so that it's in context and it's better understood okay so so Joel um I don't want to be difficult happy to go along with your process I'm I'm fine with that again I'm just trying to be respectful of everybody here right so what is it that you really want to sort of what what in your mind is

095sort of the white thing that you want to talk about maybe paint that picture for us so that we can follow along with you you want me to speak up yeah take take two minutes and give focus and people speak to them which is what I was trying so if you don't mind giving us at least a brief of sort of what it is that you want to talk about and then we actually give the space to talk about it but but I just want to make sure the rest of the group's with you okay what did I not hear in this meeting let's start there okay first I just want to say the people on the sustainability committee are my heroes I see you guys as teammates your allies I don't think that you're

096necessarily go you may disagree on strategy but I think that you're you have more knowledge than I do and than many in the community do so what you're about to hear is some serious criticisms of what you're doing and I'm saying that not to complain about you or criticize you but to say maybe we need need to do a lot more so that's that's the focus that I have so what am I going on about here all right I didn't hear a single word talking about the impact of climate change that's your topic I didn't hear a single word about talking about the implications where are we going to be in 2030 not what aspirations do we have for our community do we want to all have you know Mayday celebrations in the park I

097I mean that's not talking about aspirations is nonsense to me there's science behind this what is the status of the heating that we're seeing what is the impact on water how much did I hear in the stretch code discussion or in any of your discussion today about drought and fires I didn't hear a word not a single word okay so do I agree with your stretch code and and and we had an architect here with excellent knowledge of building codes yeah I'm with you this is good stuff we should definitely do that and I'm not saying you can't do these other things also or do them subsequently all right but I I think that policy needs to follow your vision of the future not your aspirations of the future but the science that's coming at

098us here last year in India they had numerous days over 42 degrees sea wet bul temperatures this is beyond my knowledge 20,000 people died mostly elderly and very young young children 20,000 people it's unbelievable you know and that's what's coming and we're talking about LED lighting or wiring for the future good that that's of course we should do that I'm with you all the way 100% but we're not talking about educating the public of how severe this is I want to take one example that came up when we had the tree bylaw discussion this has nothing to do with the tree bylaw the the comment I made was this this is ridiculous what you're doing you're applying to the the two or three new developments that are available in Ashland that's what the planning board

099said there's only like two major subdivisions left and that's it I don't know if that's right but that's what I heard there a lot of multi multif family so but we're not going to apply it to private homes because we' get too much backlash we talked about this timid I call this timidity right I think you I think you're right I think you'd get horrible backlash I think that you're exact you you've observed the situation correctly and what's the problem with that that most of the trees are on private property if you care about trees you need to start educating the public and we're not doing that we talk about you know let's just put a little forward here let's dip our toe in the water all right couple of other I'm trying to keep

100this at a higher level but um Steven Chu who is he Chu Energy Secretary not my politics under uh Obama okay I just watched him about I don't know two months ago uh being interviewed he said I can get you this video If you I could find it I'm sure he said that we are looking at a baked into the model already a 3 degree rise in temperature climate temperature 3° C all right all of these great conferences they have in Europe when they fly out there in their private jets all the fat cats from industry okay they said we better limit this to 1.5° we're almost there or we are there this past year and he's talking about three degrees we had I I'm out uh bike riding in the summer you're sucking in

101particulate matter from the can the Quebec fires last summer where's the we didn't talk about that right what what are we going to do about the fact that there's more fires coming we have you know I don't I just don't see us addressing these things one last point and and this is a much bigger point that I'm not going to go get into all the details about is is water and droughts what do we do in Ashland when the hopkington Reservoir level goes down we do the right thing we say look you got to we got to prioritize what we're using water for drinking water bathing cleaning dishes what whatnot we're going to not let you water your lawn no outdoor watering that's a good thing that that we need to do that it's unfortunate

102but we do and I looked up today and maybe there's other data but I looked up how much water does a lawn take to water a lawn and what I found out was that for a a a a yard of a relatively small size 30 feet by 40 feet I mean there are many much larger than that it it requires uh 150,000 gallons of water to water that lawn on a hot summer day and the worst when you shouldn't be watering the lawn but on a hot day it requires 150,000 gallons of am I getting that right I'm I'm trying to think about it whether it's 150 gallons I'm sorry 150 gallons of water okay to water that lawn I'm sorry say again to to keep the lawn adequately watered so I guess that is

103per day I'll get you I can get you more of the day so you're you're a a homeowner with your lawn you're out there watering it in the hot of the summer day which you shouldn't be doing and then you you you uh you even conserve a little bit you you you'll water the other half tomorrow or whatever and you go back into your house and you sit down for your dinner with your family you have two four people in your family and they each eat a half a pound of steak for dinner okay which I think is a reasonable portion I don't know what people eat cuz I don't eat steak okay is that a lot well cut it down what what what's the right amount you tell me do do you have any

104idea no three o 3 ounces all right let's say 4 ounces so you're eating a pound of steak okay for the four people that's reasonable how much water did it take to to raise that cow to make that one pound of steak how much water now you just watered your lawn and we cut you off because we have shortage of water in the town and we cut you off and you got uh so you can't spend your 125 gallons Watering your lawn now but you go in your house and you each get 4 ounces I cheated a little bit you each get 4 o of steak four people and that's 2500 gallons of water and I can get you that data too happy to do it all right 2500 gallons all right and we don't

105talk about that that's not you know so the the the the overriding theme is that we need to start with a vision that we're in very serious trouble here very very serious trouble and yes we should be doing everything we can do this very definitely included that's great all right but it's not it it's there's some joke about two fleas on the back of an elephant arguing which who's going to get to control which way it goes I mean it's ridiculous you know this is nothing that we're doing so we need to talk about changes to our lifestyles we need to understand and educate the community which is really what I'm talking about here I'm not saying we should ban meat or we should tell people what they have to eat or can eat or

106whatever but we need to have them understand the impact of the choices that they make and we're not doing that the sustainability committee if it accepts the the data about uh diet and the impact it's having on the CL climate needs to be outfront and try to inform people so that even if they still have total free choice at least they have an awareness of the choice they're making last thing the amount of land and I can get you this data too the amount of land right now 18% of calories in the US comes from meat and dairy if you add up all the food we eat 18% of it comes from uh calories from meat and dairy 83% of the this is global I shouldn't say us 18% 83% of the Farmland is taken

107up with cattle grazing and all of you here I am more than certain are aware of the destruction of the Amazon rainforest and the concerns that that raises to the climate and if we the the the the statistic I saw and you know I don't know how they compiled this but they they said if we could change the whole world's diet to stop eating meat and dairy how much of that land could be reforested because we're talking about saving some trees here in Ashland some percentage and the answer was that we could reforest 75% of the currently 83% of Farmland that's used for cattle we could recover 75% an area equal to the United States China Australia and Europe and we don't talk about that you know so you know am I for saving trees

108and you know cleaning the air with trees it's all good it's just not enough it's it's I mean I just bang my head on the wall when I go home and say how am I going to get people to respond to this and I don't know that you can you know people like their diet they they haven't been conditioned you know last Quick point I'm sorry during World War II there was uh serious emergency happening you know we needed to reorient our all of our manufacturing all of our industry from uh you know retail what do we call consumer products into military goods to fight World War II and the same with food that massive amounts of food had to be shipped overseas to to Army and so on and what did they do they

109called not for Price controls you know to say you know let's just let the prices go up that that was the concern they went to FDR and said you know we're going to get killed only the fat cats are going to be able to buy dishwashers or TV sets and so what are we going to do about this and what they decided to do was put in rationing and that is the non uh corporate way of controlling demand that you you put in a system of rationing where you say look we're not trying to say nobody can have this but it shouldn't only be the wealthy who can exploit the pro the climate and exploit our natural resources that it should be shared through a a more Equitable program okay that's my rant I hope

110even if you hated it that's okay let me have it feedback how would you and what would you see Ashley my phone is hang on a second let me get rid of this here sorry about that I don't even know how to turn this thing off nobody ever called me uh okay I got to go um so um what would I see ashin just doing is would you like what would you see like either of those two questions yeah I think the starting point has to be that we have to start uh a a whole bunch of things I mean I I I got a laundry list the the this the simplest stuff I would love to see the select board uh talk about having plant-based food only how's that one in the school cafeterias

111okay yeah that's going to go over real well that's actually a serious topic well it's a good topic okay I went to the Board of Health I can't remember the gentleman's name the guy who runs the Board of Health now I met him one time out here in the parking lot and I said blah blah blah vegan is diet and plant-based and all this he said oh I agree with all that but I we can't do that well okay I guess you know I could talk to you for hours about the health benefits of it but that's not what we're here to talk about so uh what what I think is that we need to start having the through the channels of communication the town has like the town manager newsletter like the select board

112meetings like public forums like this one we need to start educating the public that we think we are you know if you think you're just going to State skate through the climate crisis that we're in here and just keep living your little life and driving to the mall and driving to the supermarket and all the food shelves are going to be stocked up the Colorado River is going to dry up in the next 10 years and they provide more than half of the water to California's agricultural belt and we're not going to get any food here in Ashland I would love you know what I'd like to talk about sustainability doing is putting aside land so that if we can't get food from across the country or around the world like we can today if

113that all rise up we better make sure that we if you want to talk about sustainability where are we going to be on that day when the food isn't coming anymore how you know have we do have we put aside enough you know crop land Farmland to be able to sustain ourselves I would say no same with water so I think that if if nothing else I think that we need to start educating the public about a need to start changing our lifestyles to talk about what our priorities are and which ones we're willing to swallow and which ones we're not willing to swallow and for people to have a genuine understanding of what's about to happen I saw a guy this morning talking about apples how crazy is this he and this this is

114what he said it was pretty interesting he's an engineer this guy he reached into a he said imagine a an oil barrel nice clean new one filled up with apples he said watch I can reach over and he took a bite out of the apple he said but now it's gone down a little bit this is the parallel to to the status of oil in the ground and I have to bend over kind of far but I can get one and now I have to there's only a way down at the bottom he said what's happening with oil and he said and this is going to hit by 2031 we're not talking about 2100 here or some futuristic thing he said we it is going to cost more to get the oil out of the

115ground in its energy expenditure than it than the energy that we get back from the oil he said it will not make any sense at that point all right and and uh his pitch was that it's going to not be oil is not going to be commercially viable there's a net there's a it there's a net loss in energy to harvest the energy he said geologist measure how many barrels of oil are left in the ground they give you some number you know 5 trillion barrels or something he said but the reality is to get most of the remaining ones they're the the hardest to reach and the most expensive to reach with the largest energy expenditure so we're not they're not going to do it you know it costs more energy to get it

116than than you'd get from it and he said that's going to start hitting by 2031 and by 2040 there's not going to be anymore well what what is the sustainability and the stretch code guy here what what do you say about if if we're not going to have uh fuel for our cars and we're not going to have oil heat for our houses and and so on you know this is the the these are the arguments being made I just think you want to come up here there I I just want to a conference the other day you know on on the energized ashon thing it was interesting and one of the the key not speaker was somebody that's called a climate Optimist and you might have seen it she has written a book she's

117very widely and and and the idea is really that that people that come up with all these doomsday scenarios that's not the way to solve it you know that's really not the way you have to look at it you have to get together you have to look at things and come up with ideas that that that's going to work and and and and I think but but Jo say all these things might happen but may not I think they will actually things will change I think things will the amount of cars that you're going to see will run on different energies or whatever the energy may be I think the amount of carbon that we put in the air is going to change going the but it's going to be maybe forced by disasters at

118one time or another there will be disasters people will make decisions and I think we're resilient enough I think that people come up with ideas so I don't quite believe in this doomsday scenario I think things change and I I agree that 10 years from today as will probably look different we don't know yet what it's going to look but it's going to look different and uh and we we might have to do something about the traffic and the roads and then then the trees and whatever we're going to be doing here but it will be gradual I think it will change I I I have somewhat of a I'm I'm normally not a not an optimist believe me I'm not an optimist you know right but I I do think you know we're not

119really going to destroy the Y we're going to we're going to solve it I believe that my idea just a quick response quick second 30 seconds is good 30 seconds is good I have no idea whether the Doomsday scenario is what's coming at us but there are a lot of very credible Sciences let's let's take uh the I the International Panel on climate change from the UN those guys aren't clowns they know a whole lot more than I do they're worried about it so the issue is not whether it's going to happen but whether we're going to be prepared if it happens that's what should be worked on right now I I'm I'm hopeful that we can do something and your whole bunch of slides the you had CO2 CO2 CO2 and what didn't you

120have there what's one of the major contributors to to I'm sorry methane methane that's exactly right and that comes from beef and cattle raising and clearing Forest methane you didn't even mention it it's it it is but said by some that it is a greater contributor to greenhouse gases than all of Transportation combined people don't they're shocked that can't be right I'm done thank you sorry to be all crazy on the topic of methane um one thing is it the it goes with um cattle only if they are grain fed not if they are grass-fed it's very interesting um so just and the other thing is the major source of methane is gas leaks and we have we lose about 4% of all the gas right up um anyway I want to say that I

121generally am of Joel's persuasion I'm very pessimistic but I also have the feeling of like you know look we got to do what we can do we work at it we try um and you know if it doesn't work it doesn't work but we there's no sense in not trying because this is a major issue anyway I'm sorry I'll stop first of all Mar Sony to open everything for what car was trying to get going and this is what we're here for then we went down NASA Domin this Lane his history and data does not make a future history and data assess numbers for when it with history to open discussion on substainable priorities is worth a future I'm looking at it as what numbers down the road can happen and what numbers on the

122road can be for the for the T I'm trying to make sense about it but there a couple people that walked out it's okay I'm I'm used to it I'm used to it okay science what makes this earth science will grow this town I want to have the understanding that we can talk back and forth have two different directions but to make sense we need to have an opportunity to do a two-way street to talk back and forth to compromise to have an understanding that people want to know what's going on either in the future or what happened in the past can make the better future so I'm being very serious about this I'm talking real real slow find my words I'm 110% for the progress that sustainability is doing 110% for the meeting in

123the window comprehensive plan 110% for this town to get out of the way of itself from the past history to grow a future I want this I want this to be working together but I we also want Generation Z that's coming up behind us to realize that we're not looking back in what they never heard of and have them be taught what they never thought what their parents didn't even tell them so we're going forward meeting in the Box sustainability town of Ashland and the stretch code I'm I'm MTH for not only housing 40 40 be whatever but I'm here for buildings mixed use buildings in the same code that can be work this town this downtown as a project so that met West can see Ashland and instead of going across the world in

124the Aon all that stuff stay Metro West stay Ashland be strong thank you so just a quick um outside perspective with someone who's not a part of the sustainability committee I find that in talking to people in town if we can communicate the positives that are happening with sustainability I think is really critical and then we reinforce that even on a micro level I think what you talked about was high level macro level which we have to talk about as well but I think it's also important for example whether this is true or not it's the data that I receive so in my solar panels last month my CO2 reduction apparently was 12262 lbs which they say is the equivalent to 10 trees so if there's a way to to have data that we communicate

125through the town manager through the economic director through the sustainability Community I get your newsletter as well and we share that information positively with the town the amount of young people that are moving to Ashlin is pretty real and a lot of young people do care very much about what we're talking about not just the gray hairs in the room and so I think we want to really connect with them because they're our future and I think it's important to get some of those young folks in this committee but also talk about the little things that are happening in that difference that it is making I think it's important that we don't forget that do you know what's that have you heard of it I've heard of it great that's what I'm talking I think

126you mention anybody El at this stage I think everybody's just taking a chance so I'm not going to try and go back to the format think we don't have enough that so thoughts I I think you're just sharing thoughts anywh I think we're getting some out anyway I've seen car sort of fast note take there anyway so any other thoughts in the room go I want to complain about Joel Harry is he's he's chair of he's chair of uh the town um uh upper Charles upper Charles Trail thank you Joel um and you know just putting one little Trail through town we need we need if we're serious about reducing the amount that people drive we need to be able to get from my house up on Oregon Road way up in the corner there

127down to the to the trail so that I can get to the high school to the center of town so we need to be thinking more expensive expansively about the trail so that we think about how do we do this so that this becomes a means of transportation I know some people will bike some people get their little electric bikes or whatever any of that's better than than everybody driving around town so I'm G to I just wanted Joel's been giving us trouble I thought I'd give him trouble getting anybody have thought sure go for it thank please I I would like to Res maybe about 5 to S minutes just to summarize everything I've been hearing and maybe maybe bring this of to to at least some kind of uh output uh that Mak

128sense hi my name's Amanda I live over on Wesson Road by Cedar to kind of take what Joel was talking about and bring it back to what we would really like to see in the future for Ashland personally I grew up in a place where you could walk to things and I lived in Boston where you could walk to things and take public transportation and I realized that I moved to a suburb that was my decision but it would be really nice if we could reduce some of the use of cars in general but especially obviously the ones that use gas if we could walk to more places if I wanted to get to a place where I could ride my bike with my children I would have to to put my bikes in my

129car and drive to a place where I could ride bikes because I live on Cedar off a Cedar Road which anybody from Ashlin knows isn't safe for anything except cars and I feel like a lot of our community is like that we can't walk to places we can't safely bike to places we are required to use our cars so if we want to reduce some of that Transportation cost uh CO2 wise cost I would like to see the town do something about that I'd like to be able to ride or walk as far as Farmland real good idea my sister's a farmer she was a farmer in Westland Weston she's now a farmer out in Beverly and some of those towns have agricultural space set aside now let's be honest it's because they don't want

130developers to come in and put multi-use family housing on it or multif family housing sorry but nonetheless there is Farmland quality farmland but if we have quality Farmland in Ashland are we then taking away places where we could grow trees it's a balance so I'd like people to talk about that I think having a community Farm where people who don't have a backyard big enough to put a garden like I do could have a plot of land where they could go grow some of their own food I'm from Detroit that's a big thing there um it's things like that where I don't think we can really address meth we don't as far as I'm aware we don't have a lot of cows in Ashland I could be wrong where do they come from yes true

131but we cannot mandate as the town of Ashland what people eat can we educate them absolutely but we can't we can't as the town do anything about that we can continue to have NSTAR fix all the holes in their gas pipes like they did on my street great yeah yes no yeah I mean we can as a town I imagine we can ask about that I can't I can't I imagine we can't get make NSTAR do anything but or uh who is it now eversource eversource thank you I'm stuck like five years ago um but anyway so as far as the vision goes I'd like to see us have a few more sustainable things in the town if we're going to build the YMCA I'd really like it to be a Sustainable Building um I

132agree 100% with the the stretch code that we already have and the opin code I think is fabulous it as you as Ash said it gives people the ability to make better choices in the future without having to like put out a whole bunch of cash out of pocket and a whole bunch of effort and undo some of the building practices that that we would like to prevent so I think that's all I have to say did that answer any of the meeting in a box questions so um it's interesting I um I wanted to change the order of some of the questions initially because I thought in talking about specific features that we'd like to see in the future like walkability or bike paths or um transportation in general or um our buildings um

133I thought it would get us to our vision but some some people disagree with it and so we went with the original some people disagreed with that but um I think this does take from big picture of why we need to do all this stuff I think everyone in this room has an appreciation for sustainability and the the real car do you want to yeah why didn't you summarize I was going to this you anyway um so anybody who knows me more I have a degree in Environmental Studies so like I studied it regardless of how depressing climate changes um there's a lot of negative things that are going to happen if we do nothing um but I being depressed about it isn't going to get us anywhere so I feel like what we want

134to do here today what we want to do going forward is taking the small steps every day and getting us to better I don't think we're going to be perfect to be honest I think we are going to feel some of the effects um but I don't want to sit and complain about I want to start taking the small steps that's why I spend some of my hard earned free time on the sustainability committee I have a family I have a job it's not easy to make the time but I believe it's important um so with that being said I I heard a lot of things of education and making better choices as a town and I think that's where we have to go with it um the data is out there getting people to

135believe it or read it is a whole another thing I think education we just we need help also from the community to support us so I would like to thank everybody that came here that didn't have to be here um cuz it matters and it it it helps us you're a key key part of it so does that summarize it enough for you guys all right I take minutes got 10 so I just wanted to make a little point about energize Ashland I don't know if you heard but it went officially live today as a website and it's it's a grassroot organization where people in the town mostly residents but businesses could do as well can sign up to a website and and then and enter actions of things that they have already taken in

136their house or if they have not taken them maybe plan to do them and then these actions get a a score of how much trees or carbon you actually saving it's exactly that what he's saying and you get a credit for it and it gets accumulated and you write testimonials about the things that you're actually doing in town so it's inspirational so you want to inspire your neighbors and tell people what you're doing and these actions all the way from putting solar in your roof to making little changes in your yard or or or do even some actions to let you in want vote for uh the the the stretch code anything like that so anything that helps to bring the whole idea of climate change you know make some improvements in in people's life

137in Ashland just for the town of Ashland so it's Grassroots and we like to have everybody participate and and and do something and it's it's just a way to communicate it's not sure how much you know I'm trying to be realistic it's not going to save the world but it's going to do maybe something that's my point all right I think uh we getting right about a time so first off thank you all of you for for spending time with us on on a Saturday right it it's super valuable um that that you did come out thank you Dylan for for making the extra time I know you had another commitment and and I was saw happy when I saw you walked in I was a little shocked when you walked in as well um

138but I'm glad you did because I think it added a lot of value to the conversation um couple of thoughts I think Cara did a really good job of summarizing sort of a lot of the conversation we had here um personally um you know I I I I have to be hopeful because otherwise I get too depressed and I stop working um but but Joel I couldn't agree more with you that that there is a massive problem right chuck chuck reminds us on a on pretty much every meeting that this is this is not just a crisis it's a crisis of epic proportions and and we have to do something about it I think where we've tried to focus though is the things that we can do about it in our way in our town

139and and still make some progress with it are we doing enough I don't think anything that we do is going to ever be enough but but certainly you've seed a few thoughts and ideas here I do want to flag that uh when it comes to methane uh specifically or or any of those gases one of the key reasons where shifting towards electrification is this critical is because instead of all of that natural gas even if the grid does not turn you know renewable overnight all of that natural gas or coal or you know energy that that's right now being piped to individual houses instead of it going to individual houses even if every bit of it went to just creating more electricity we'd still see a massive decrease in the amount of both gas usage

140as well as as leakage because now you'd effectively have a centralization function and then what's really getting piped is electricity which you know doesn't leak in in quite the same way and and as I made the point earlier you know electrification is the One path we do have that that is got any any hope of of actually changing you know how how we consume energy and energy at the end of the day does drive a big portion of the climate change problem uh as it as regards to food as regards to you know uh Farmland I think you talked about uh you know I I heard about education certainly we can do a lot more about education I think uh the energize action site uh you know is is largely a response to to our

141own inadequacy as a committee to do that uh right uh and and uh we're super grateful for that group uh that they've gotten together and and sort of doing it at a Grassroots level um but um the goal of the committee so far has been really more focusing on the legislative changes that we can make so that they actually impact policy in town and and that's sort of how we see ourselves being most effective uh I'm more than happy for us to take a wider role keep in mind with five people uh you know who try to kind of push it so but between these initiatives between your support I think we could be doing a lot more um so I'd love to continue that conversation we do have an another session in uh on

142Thursday uh from 7:00 to 9: um you know so if you can make that that would be great we will still spend about 20 minutes at least or 30 minutes on the stretch Cod for folks who haven't seen it I do plan to take the first half of this and absolutely promote the heck out out of it in front of town meeting I don't think we'll get quite the kind of participation we got uh as with you guys both both being here right there were really great points of view and and input there um so I think that's valuable for the town to see as well so we will make sure that that we take this video and actually share it wide um but uh separate from that uh thank you again for making the

143time if you're willing to join us again and continue this conversation we've got another 2our set up to do just that uh and we can you know go past other topics that we weren't able to cover quite quite as much today um and um yeah if you don't join us uh show up a town meeting vote vote that that's what is going to make changes uh and uh otherwise thank you thank you so much go