Planning Board & Select Board Joint Meeting 3/14/2024

001our goal was to um look for a master students that will be and now we're just trying to like work with her schedule and ours super cool all right I think we are I think we are back our live stream is going again so we were looking for a motion to continue 151 Main I'll make a motion to continue the site plan approval application for 151 Main Street to March 28th I'll second that an a roll call vote Anna tuski I Marcel hona I Katherine Jersy I and Trisha Kendall I so we will see that on March 28th All Right Moving on our second public hearing is um 9 to 49 Homer Avenue this is the um project we've been looking at for a little while now we're getting into the the um the end

002part I guess of it um site plan and special permit application so I think the um Peter do you just want to yeah I can just give a quick update uh obviously this project has been with us uh but we have been uh at the last meeting we comb through the special permit and the site plan uh findings and conditions um there was some edits made uh those are highlighted in blue um I believe I sent uh them to to to all the Plenty board members and we have printed copies here tonight I just want to make a note that Terry Morris uh the attorney for the project and Mr Charlie zudo part of the application team Andor owner of the the land area is here tonight along with Ron Bor I know one of

003the items that did come up obviously in conversations um in one of the Loose Ends was um the pergola within the pocket park and so I believe um in your binders you'll be able to find a rendering of the pergola um this is from a excuse me a earlier rendering of the building so please um don't don't pay any attention to the colors per se but you can kind of see where that purle is going to be located within that pocket park and how that will be built obviously it'll be Timber um and uh it will have matching asphalt roof shingles to the building and and that's just something that was going to be added into the decision uh just as as a loose item so as the conversation uh continues with with with the

004decision uh I'm sure I have all more to input but I just kind of want to make a clear note of that um that information was collected uh to date and Marcelo and Amanda I can share my screen and show that to you um yeah I think we can we can go back to the pergola when we get like as we go through when we get to that part yeah so maybe we should just start um again with the with the special permit um and make our way through obviously everything can always be asked but the blue areas um and and and maybe we want to bring it maybe we want to bring up the special permit document um yes online as well um but the areas in blue indicate the things that are changed

005since our meeting to weeks ago and the questions that were still remaining um on those items I have a question in addition to the blue did the last meeting we make it through everything cuz I feel like we were close but I um I'm not sure we we as a board got through the entire draft because it was coming along pretty well right we were agreeing we were doing some live edits but I just don't want to um maybe miss that and just focus on the blue if that's if it's not true that we didn't fin or if it whatever yeah I mean um obviously we'll continue on the um on all the conditions as we go through them um but most of them and we can ask when we get there but I think

006all the things like special project conditions are um are things that are tip more typical project conditions they're probably not okay yeah like I don't unfortunately remember what page we got to together like last time well I think we're really starting um on page nine again with the blue so we're kind of going back there was no blue anywhere before that I don't think so um and then most of the end of it is just is just really our standard conditions about processes and um the stuff that's always in there so um so anyway the first place of blue is um this is in the FI no it's in the special permit criteria so it's in the findings and that's just um an uh approval or a waiver of the typical parking dimension of 9

007by2 to be in the subsurface spaces it is 9 by2 on the surface spaces on the subsurface spaces the the um spaces are 9 by8 with a 24in wide aisle um the uh uh gcg um I don't remember their exact wording who would be in the documentation that was acceptable I think that's what they said um but it needs the approval of the planning board so that is in the findings any and the standard is 9 by 20 the in in the Ashlin definition of a parking space we have it as 9 by 20 anyone is the is the reason for that because is there something going on subsurface that this type of modification allows for some other important task or accommodation like a access point do we have a sense of what why it's

008necessary for the project I think anytime we're kind of going off the norm it's good to understand I I think I think we can ask Ron but it's important to understand that this the idea of a norm um like the Ashland um bylaws as far as I know do not specify the width of an aisle they only specify the width of a space so often you'll see 20 202 used um I think the fire department prefers The Wider aisle the 24 aisle fire department is always going to want a 24 24t aisle when you start looking into these parking Dimensions these parking lot Dimensions parking stall dimensions mentions I'm going to tell you right now uh 20 20 is the biggest space that's typically ever practically provided um and so a 18 uh 18t space

009is a common and it's common across the board in any um Plaza you know Shopping Plaza Mall um any any any sort of development of that nature where you have a lot of parking you know some parking spots all together so I think the request is in line with other elements that we've other other projects that we have permitted um and so I have also seen through research that that 9 by8 will be decreased for a compact space down to 8 by1 15 in some locations uh and so what the the the definition of Norm is going to be across the board right and so I think a normal space uh would would be 9 by8 in Ash we just call for 20 I meant like contrary to our bylaw so that's what I meant

010if the BW says 9 by 20 and we're doing something different our Norm our bylaw Norm but I mean I don't have a problem with it because I what I'm hearing is this is sub um subsurface it appears to um so I'm okay with that as long as we don't create you know a precedent where every little parking space we do we go with this so I can see how if it's sub surface I'm okay with this um the only continuation that I was searching for and I could not remember is one of the reports if I'm right maybe it was a gcg report where there were columns and some of those 9 by8 parking spots which I don't remember if they came back and said they reworked something and cleared that I that's I

011was looking for those drawings I was like could not find it yeah I did I did um I looked at that note I know the note you meant and they said that the parking spots are 9 by you know 9 by 18 but whenever there's a column which of course isn't every parking space um then that's going to reduce the size of that spot by half a column sure say and um yeah so up and typically those are at the end of at the end of the spot not at the if you're pulling in it's not where your door is yeah so I would imagine it would go into you know 6 in on a side or something like that they didn't loot loose spots because of that condition anywhere number of parking spots no

012the parking the number of parking spots is still what it's required to be if that's your question like I know we talked about it and I just couldn't figure it out thank you all right so everyone good can we we can move on okay uh next under neighborhood character and social structur so this is just a move um the first part of that was that changed I don't remember the addition of a pocket park for yeah I think the first part of that is just I don't think anything changed there no nothing changed there um but the second part of that is about the um is about the mural wall because um so we moved it as a finding because of the difficulty we're having in that there is no there's there's no way to

013put a responsibility on it there's no funding mechanism there's no none of these details which have to be worked out in order to make it a you know in order to really have this be structured we're kind of having this difficulty with the Starbucks mural right we kind of threw it out there and now we have to kind of um figure it out on the fly so what this does is still accept the gift that we've been allowed to do this but it leaves it a little bit open-ended of how are we going to do this and who's going to do it and where's the funding going to come from and what it actually is um so um we thought it was more appropriate Peter and I after talking to different people in the town

014found that this was maybe the more and I've done some research on this right and I I looked at chapter 4A I've talked to folks in town Hall uh and I actually wrote a memo on it and that the number one thing is that under chapter 48 under the zoning board responsibilities we really don't have the pting board doesn't have the responsibility right indor the power to in to to to to put in in like we did right with with the Starbucks right we we took it but then we we brought in a third party entity which be the town of Ashen right and so I think I in in looking at everything that's kind of evolved you know I think the best move for us is to move it into the finding section because

015with a condition we really not allow it to to take something and and and put it on a third party entity right it doesn't really become enforcable because it's not really with the project and we don't really have the power over a third party entity right and so therefore it was I found it to be most appropriately placed in a finding section under neighborhood character I'm not convinced moving it somehow relates to third party which would be the town of Ashland I I think where I'm coming from is it's on a project that is just site plan review um you can't force you can't force a pocket park um this is special permit we have a little bit more leeway but even here I don't think any of us want to force it I think

016the consensus of the board was we did not want to force this at all instead it was I recall it as a conversation I think it was first brought up by the applicant not by the board in this instance it was yeah and so where it's being offered and we accept it where it's located in the decision condition or finding as long as we're not forcing some random entity to do it I don't really see that it matters where it's located in the decision I do think it's really important to recognize that we absolutely have jurisdiction to work with any applicant who's willing to offer this and to accept it and I also believe we have a right as a planning board in those situations to come up with a protocol that might include talking

017to other entities to figure out how they might want to be part of something like this either for this project or any other project and as long as there's consensus like down the line I'd love to get this board to a point where we have an understood protocol that works for other entities whether it's our art rated nonprofits or our town entities where there is a mutual um interest in making something like this happen and it's more likely to happen in partnership with the select board or with these entities and I think where it is in the decision I don't think in some way yeah over steps or bounds yeah I think the question is here um I think the critical word Peter left out and what he just said versus the way he described

018it to me is that conditions usually are are able to be enforced right and so how are we enforcing a mural where we don't have an artist or funding or maintenance we don't really know what it is maybe it's maybe it's something different maybe it's a different kind of artwork right so it's a it's still that the the applicant is um has offered and the planning board is accepting this this space right but there's nothing to we don't have anything in place as a town or as a board where something is enforceable right so this is where like I'm not sure I think that we C we absolutely have a right to enforce uh design right and so we have a right to say we want if the applicant is agreeing which I believe they

019are right they're they're offering this then in a sense they're offering a space we can't enforce a painter to come in and paint it we can't say you the applicant must find a painter and get this done but we absolutely can enforce a design that we come into agreement with where a wall is available for such a project so I kind of disagree I I agree that we can't force the the drawing but we design is the part that we can absolutely have jurisdiction over assuming it's a condition that is agreed upon in a special permit well let's see where let's see where everyone sits on it and what I'm trying to and also what comes into play is we can't pull in a third-party entity such as the town or somebody else to be

020dependent upon a condition right and I think the last time we all agreed that we would not I don't recall us ever saying oh let's Force some entity to make it happen I think we talked exactly about this idea that we would want to work with the applicant to develop a protocol and maybe we as a planning board would create some sort of precedent because I recall the last time we were like huh this is something new that we seem to be doing we're learning as we go between the Starbucks and this project maybe we should come up with a protocol so I I absolutely agree that I would not want to force any entity to come in and save the day I think it's our responsibility to come up with a protocol that we

021partner with the right entities who are also interested I think there's folks in this community who love public art let's well let's let everyone weigh in I think we understand where where you're sitting on it Kate um well I I have a problem having something in decisions is not enforceable so I think I mean it's kind of along the lines Anna is thinking I I don't understand why wouldn't be enforcable for telling them what color they have to paint it and what materials and what color the roof is so I I to me it seems like a disconnect that we're this isn't enforcable and I that that's where I have confusion why isn't enforceable and then certainly moving it to a place where you're telling me it's not enforceable then it shouldn't be in our

022decision I think that's not quite how I don't think that's quite coming off the way I think it comes off but um but I see what you're saying I guess I I mean I think it's fine um wherever we put it as long as it's just as long as we just keep it open because we have no we have no other information on this we have no other there is nothing else to add which is why the Starbucks mural is behind the scenes has been tricky right so but let me go to people online if Amanda or Marcelo want to weigh in yeah um I I I really don't have a problem with it one way or another I think probably would kind of in my opinion spending kind of too much energy on something

023that it's kind of relatively tangential to the project I think that the phrase looks fine and uh the only thing I would say and and I guess whether it's here or there it's kind of to me a distinction without a difference I I think we're saying here that it has been offered and has been accepted the the part that I think is a little U confusing to me at least is when they say at the end that the applicant may choose to work with the planning board to develop a process for implementation I guess the word may could be May yes or may not so I I I think the intent is that we accept the space as offered and I think maybe what we should just say is that the the the planning board

024will follow up with with steps for implementation just like Anna said that we we will maybe develop a protocol in the meantime it it it it gets on the record that we accepted uh the offer so Marcel would you where it says may would you change that to will like will work with the planning board is that what you were or just kind of reverse it just say that the the planning board will work with the applicant we'll we'll set up uh the steps to working with the applicant to to implemented and that and that goes to the point that maybe we need to just spend a little time thinking on on the protocol uh the implementation this is not critical to the project this is not germine or imminent that has to get done

025and I I think I I like the idea of developing a system um instead of just going willy-nilly on on on Project after project with with with lack of of tools I I think just saying that that has been offered and accepted and therefore now that space is is basically reserved for implementation under the direction of the planning board and that that's that will be enough for me thank you Amanda do you want to add in no I agree I think it makes sense in this section um just given that you know I think this type of an art installation is absolutely something that's going to add to Neighborhood character it's it's a valid social structure I think concerns around having it in conditions um last meeting were valid and it makes sense here and

026think um I like that rewarding because I think it makes it it puts the onus on us to work with the applicant to take the process forward but it also REM sort of removes any ambiguity around whether or not it's you know we're saying it's been offered we accept it it's going to happen you know we'll take the implementation process forward with the applicant Deepa um I think that small tweet that Marcelo suggested makes a lot of sense that gives us kind of that space to I don't think we can hear it Deepa online I just seconded what you just said Marcelo um nothing more to add so so would that just be a simple change of saying the planning board will work with the applicant to develop a process for implementation y yeah I'm

027okay with that I just kind of want to be put it out there you know I think it's on the onus needs to be on the planning board because you know what if happens if protocol cannot be agreed upon you know going back and forth I don't think that will happen but I think just in any instance when you're dealing with art public art it it comes down to an opinion right on what what the design shall be what it looks like so I just want to make sure that we're clear on on um the onus should lie on the planning board yeah I think that's true okay so why don't we reverse that to the planning board will work with the applicant to develop a process for implementation and where do we want to

028put it I'm something like um approval will not be unreasonably withheld like some language that we do in in our things like because I again I approval by the applicant right I I think the intent is to work with us I think the intent is to get it but words matter and this is essentially becomes a contract on file so I think we should have something like that which I know is still undefinable but we use it to the benefit of applicants right we can't that's fine should we everyone's good with that yeah but qu yes but I wonder how what that process will look like when they have to come back to kind of such a presentation I no I think it's more like what's happening with Starbucks that it's happening offline you know

029and so our means of doing that was finding someone another committee that's that's actually handling it for us so and whatever that board is is working together but but I think the point of approval is it's it's kind of separate from these I I and I don't I I kind of think it it models it just models the the whole thing the the what this paragraph is saying is just about reserving the space for the planning board to decide on how to implement the process to get a mural or or or an art art project it's not about who's going to approve it or that no we are going to determine that the the this should just be squarely on on on on on the four corners of the offer has been accepted and we

030will develop a step for implementation um I'm not sure that add adding detail to it when we don't have even the basis so you don't think the last line is needed the approval unwi withheld kind of thing well there's not there's not there's not there's no approval that okay I only suggested that because people were saying they might not like the art and then they can continuously the the worst case of that is I continuously never like anything you bring to me we never get a mural right so I'm trying to prevent Charlie's a mud's hand up Charlie do you want to Charlie I've asked you to unmute but please join the conversation can you hear me yep loud and clear yeah I'm all for the mural I just don't want any political or hate

031speech or anything like that it's going to be a mutually agreed upon mural we don't want to wind up with something on our building that the community is going to be against or anybody be offended by it yeah that that makes sense I think uh Starbucks is saying the same thing yeah how about the art shall be mutually agreeable or agreed upon that's completely reasonable that's fine and doesn't doesn't the school have an art Department like the kids can do murals yeah I mean I I don't want to go through the details here it could be almost anything so we're just trying to keep this General so that we can have this very general condition in here and we can move on this isn't something we're going to work out today when it's still in

032process with the Starbucks mural right that planning board will okay that's fine yeah so the planning board will work with the applicant to De to develop a process for implementation that's good okay thank you so artwork shall be mutually agreeable by both parties or okay and I see Terry and ROM's hand up but unless you have something extremely different to add then I would rather move on oh Terry um I can ask you to unmute sorry I okay can you hear me yep okay um I still can't stop my video though can you let me do that too uh yeah hold on Terry okay but we can still hear your question even if we can't see you so yeah so can you give us your question we have a big agenda tonight I can speak

033but I can't anyway um I thought I listened to the I was aever to hear of the whole discussion I I think I agree with marello uh and the change that youve made to the to the to the the language that I see in front of me I think it's fine okay all right thank you then we'll move on the opportunity to comment okay all right so we're going to page 11 where just adding one word there those new pedestrian Pathways which are the same kind of raised sidewalks that we put in on Starbucks as are on the entrance and exit um that might come up in a couple places because we had to add that on uh let's see okay number six this is about um this is about the existing building and how

034the existing building um doesn't meet the current setbacks of the downtown zoning but we don't want to tear it down so just says the board also approves the current setbacks of the existing commercial building to remain nine Homer AV which are non-conforming under the Ashland downtown district zoning so just taking care of that number 12 um inspectional survey so I I have one question oh sorry Marcel didn't see you just one question about the last paragraph um are we saying I mean I understand those there's a commercial piece of property there that is nonconforming that that's fine U but when we say that we approve it does that mean that they decide to redevelop those buildings uh are by default approved as non-conforming well it says I mean I'm not sure I mean we have

035the we have the wording that says um approves the current setbacks of the existing commercial building to remain exactly but should we do we need to approve it's just a question or should we say that we recognize that they are non-conforming and will [Music] remain I don't know if it makes a difference but I will defer to Amanda and and and [Music] Anna I'm trying to remember the language that this this came what what I think the language is pretty close to that from gcg yeah I I think I think gcj I think gcg said planning board approval yeah yeah I think I think okay either way I I think it it's saying the same it's it's the same item it it's getting across the same point okay then I'm fine all right so on

036page 12 we're on inspectional survey um we just added we had blasting and ho ramming and we added ground settlement to here um and um do you want to review the other things from Mike Carter uh sure is that the right place for it well I can review the number number four I just want to kind of go over so well but but number four isn't we're we're on number two oh I'm sorry oh yes number two these are a couple questions that um Kate had made about potential ground settlement I mean we had talked about blasting we had talked about H ramming potentially disturbing some of the um surrounding properties and that those would be monitored youa oh sorry yeah you give them to me didn't you um pet Peter just so you know

037you're still showing the the number six oh I'm sorry sorry everybody budy where are they I them oh you do um no know that's something El sorry everybody I have to hunt for a missing email it's here somewhere oh wait here they are is that it yep okay so just a note uh sorry to follow up is that um we did receive an email from Kate and you had a couple questions on that settlement and um do want me to read the email or just kind of review it I think it's pretty short so it's pretty short says hi Peter uh did you get any information from gcg if they think there is a need for and if so the method for monitoring for a settlement I noticed it is added to the list for

038po poal construction related impacts the way this is listed the applicant is required to complete an inspectional survey to set an existing conditions of Baseline that was an email from from Kate that email was just sent over to Mike Carter for review um I hope that was okay um in his response is uh says concerns about the way the condition is written so as written as you see it today says one there is no details that would that the preconstruction existing condition surve survey needs to be there for excuse me there why you read his respon oh yeah I'll read his response a video and pictures of the existing adjacent buildings in property should be provided so I think we can add that set an elevation on the side of each building to be checked

039over a period of one year after completion of construction number two said there um number two he had no comments and and I I can read it it says there is no requirement to submit it to the town oh I'm sorry says there is no requirement to submit it to the town mer merely required to complete some sort of existing condition survey I'm sorry this wasn't highlighted in red we should have it submitted for approval so I think we need to edit this number three says there is no requirement for ongoing monitoring without some monitor okay say without some monitoring how will anyone know if settlement is occurring okay this is a I think this is a question from K correct sorry says submit an elevation report every month until one year after completion certified

040by PLS so those are elements um that we can add oh to clo says to close this can we okay can we okay it says um we can uh can we get a settlement a settlement from gcg that they don't believe monitoring for settlement possible or other construction impacts is needed uh we had discuss discussed having a monitoring plan okay I think this is from UK and then the last Point uh there is no comment back and so yes I think we can take what gcg wrote back to us and edit that condition Yeah so basically basically basically I think gcg is saying um that a video and pictures of the exterior of adjacent buildings and property should be provided that they set an elevation on the side of each building to be checked over

041a period of one year after completion of construction and then they submit an elevation report every month until one year after completion CER certified by a professional land surveyor good okay so we will add those things on but offline I mean we can do it now no no 100% probably be going through a lot of iterations and yeah so at least let's do it at the end instead of right in the middle here okay all right uh construction Logistics plan and phasing plan we on number three we just added in there applicant shall submit for approval um it there was just some other phrase in there I can't remember what it was but it made a little bit more definitive number four is water pressure and Sewer capacity so um Peter you have an email

042oh you Peter had written this condition sent it to so this condition comes from uh I wrote it over the course and then uh today uh just I had the chance to talk to Dan Mau Dan ma is our water and sewer superintendent um and I also was able to meet with Greg eldrid today who's is our third party engineer uh and just to read the condition it says prior to the insurance of the building permit the applicant shall consult with the Ashland water depart excuse me the Ashland Department of Public Works Water and Sewer division to confirm water capacity in available sewer capacity for the addition of the project to the existing Town infrastructure it may be requested by ashen's Town excuse me by ashlin's water and sewer division to collect and submit historical

043water usage data from the past three to five years for comparison against a proposed usage in flow ensuring capacity and I sent this to Greg Eldridge and Dan Mau and in reply from Greg Eldridge who is vice president senior project manager for uh Halen ward he wrote back Peter we reviewed the proposed language and we feel like it ensures waste excuse me Wastewater and capacity are reviewed uh for this project Noe uh having a longer discussion with Greg and Dan they felt comfortable with the language and uh and they will obviously Dan has been Dan and Greg have been re reviewing this project Greg has been working in the town of ashon for 25 years on our Wastewater systems and he felt comfortable so that was one of the things that was remaining on our

044outstanding items list do anyone have any questions or concerns about that or is that checking off that item on our list all right seeing none go to page Lucky 13 uh uh so this is uh just item 11 and this is just the sidewalks and curbs again and talking about that raised sidewalk so it just said entrance and we added to the Alden Street exit that's again one of the things I mentioned before that pops up a few places now we're on page 14 this was about the shared parking we were looking for a little bit more information about a shared about a shared parking agreement something that would be legally binding in case say the railroad station is sold along with its parking um Peter is that document is that something that um is

045everything okay Amanda yeah I was just saying can you advance the doc oh I'm sorry you know what I'm trying to I have paper in front of me and I please remind me we're on page we're on page 14 14 sorry about that so um is this the language has this language been reviewed by Lisa me yet or was just her it was her s some of her suggestion so this was a summary of a email that I got from Lisa me as a follow-up item and this comes as um a email to Lisa a email from Lisa and what I did is I asked Lisa and I attached the uh gcg comment below and I ask her the question her response and reply Peter I agree with Mike verification should happen to be sure

046there are are significant Surplus spaces to provide the offside parking either a lease agreement between the two parties or an easement is acceptable I would support the lease agreement uh said I would support I would suspect the lease agreement would be more appropriate but either works uh I would also require that the lease agreement is for the term of the special permit and until the usage change or lease must stay in place further that the parking should be uh dedicated for the uses across the street and there are any changes to the uses on the site um of the lease may not increase the required parking such that it impacts the number of spaces covered in the lease the lease should also require notice to the building inspector should the lease be terminated for any

047reason and so therefore I was able to review I summarize Lisa's email and I tried to create the best condition possible uh I have not been able to verify that and and check off you know Lisa has reviewed this personal condition however I did verify with Lisa what that condition would look like I think this is a good one for our to attorneys to take a look at the language knowing that Lisa me will be looking at it um but to see if it reads if it reads clearly it doesn't seem to cover like a sale of either property it seems I mean like overall pretty good but then if the current applicant owns both properties so let's say they sell one or the other mhm how is that enforcable well I think that's why

048the lease agreement is between the two properties so regardless of ownership a leas still stands yeah that's that that's how I understand what Leisa is suggesting and they still would submit it for approval to the town so presumably that's within the jurisdiction of yeah it seems to me that it would only happen if if one property is sold and they decide not to continue the agreement then they would have to notify the town and the inspector and I mean the lease is between those entities so if somebody else comes in it's not their agreement it would not be enforcable so I I think the premise is that this is for the duration of this use you're concerned that what happens after no I mean they either one of those properties could be sold tomorrow but

049we're approve we're potentially approving a project on a condition that there's access to other parking that tomorrow they may not own that's my concern I mean that's been the concern it was kind of flagged through gcg report so I don't think that's taken care of just because there's a lease because a new owner isn't going to be obligated to someone else's lease well it's it is being recorded with the registry of deeds so it's but how would how would they carry over a lease that they didn't well a deed restriction is not a lease though I mean a deed restriction is a thing and a lease is a thing I I think where so it says lease agreement or easement I think easement hints at at a potential restriction that could outlive this particular owner

050a leis agreement is really between the parties so I I would say we should go back to Lisa and just clarify which one is it is it a lease agreement or an easement okay yeah I think that needs to be the same go ahead Amanda I have the same question I'm wondering why she preferred the lease agreement over the easement because the concern about transfering is I think handled by an easement yeah an easement would be essentially kind of stuck in time for everyone to deal with because that would show up as a problem for the next the next purchaser would say oh there's an easement what do I do right and it would infuence the value of the purchase a lease not my problem these other people have a lease but it's not me

051so we can't really say lease or or easan they're kind of different so why don't we this obviously needs to be checked by which who's going to look at the whole thing anyway right yeah she she's going to look at the whole thing I just want to make a note the Attorney Terry Morris has his hand up we can yeah so Terry if you want to have a comment you can but we'll have Lisa and we'll not to her the question about the potential sale of one property and then what happens that we want to make sure it addresses that concern I think you made that clear in when you talked to Lisa about it but to make sure that she understands that concern I can I can do that uh Town planner to Terry

052Terry do you want do you want to weigh in on this matter yes I do easement is a stronger document from the rather than a lease the easement can runs with the land but was as long as the properties are under both uh the same form of ownership you can't Grant an easement to yourself so until such time as this I think Katherine's observation about covering it when you change owners that's when the easement should be required to be put in place because that's what so it just needs to be afraid so it sounds like the condition should be there shall be a Le lease and when that lease ends an easement okay if if ownership changes there's an easement and there is an easement so we just need to be very firm okay I

053think we'll just have to I'll clarify that condition obviously with liser and then we'll come back to it okay so we'll put that one in Lisa's court all right uh sorry next on the list is commercial hours of operation this was suggested by gcg because the parking is shared in the downtown area and there was so so much reduction of parking in the downtown area and this is why so that we get this more density of uses but to make sure I I think it's basically making sure there's no overnight parking by those businesses that those those spots need to be used by the residences so um this language was just uh taken from another project we're not saying that this is the right hours of operation so but it was a placeholder for our

054discussion today I believe it came out of 100 Chestnut yeah am I crazy or isn't this something that the select board has jurisdiction about so the select board yes and no I think I would so the select board has Licensing hours and that's where we kind of got into this got into a situation remember that it was a situation concerning I think concerning um Starbucks it was a big situation but but it's a different situation it's a special permit well Starbucks wasn't sharing parking with residential this is shared parking between residential and Commercial so I think that's I think that's one of the differences Starbucks was just Starbucks they're not sharing with anybody so they don't have other people that need to use those spots right the residences need to use the spots in this

055case so are these hours proposed by the applicant I you know I think these were taken from the uh Village of the Americas I can double check and look at it uh and come back one we can check in with Charlie zudo he has his hand raised but I don't know if he just I have asked Charlie to unmute yeah again this is kind of one of those you you are correct we kind of got in you know because the the the the the select board do have obvious I mean if it's a bar moving in there the select board is gonna be deciding how late it's open correct so what are we doing I don't think we should be going to this okay I think the only thing I'm comfortable doing just to not

056step on the select board's toes is whatever hours that the select board chooses for whatever establishment the lighting only being on during those hours would would in theory be on us because that's part of the the overall presence of the building but I don't think we can drive those hours without knowing what's moving in and whether we have jurisdiction if it's a bar it's not us I think one of the and I just jump just popped into my head right is that I think Trish you just hit a note right there should be no overnight parking by the businesses right so allow those to be opened up by the resident for for the residents right and I think that's a very nice way to to move past hours of operation because it's not in our

057jurisdiction and then it might be because it's special permit we might have a little bit more power than we did with Starbucks which was site review I believe site plan review correct so we may have a little bit more power but I don't know if we need to go there because we don't know what the businesses are so I think the other option in this which we also implemented I believe in 100 chest Street was that if there becomes a problem with parking that the applicant agrees to issue kind of a parking permit mechanism to limit the amount of cars that are parking do you remember that like the true so so they need to control their parking problem that that everyone has a spot you know the businesses and the residential because it is

058a in the downtown area the bylaw does allow a significant reduction in parking for being downtown right so um I can go back and talk to Lisa one more time I would make sure that we and get clarification but I think you know this conversation has kind of highlighted um this situation I'm all for doing that language if it's allow I don't want to have us do a repeat okay that make sense said I think it's a slight it's a little different condition but we still need to pay attention to it absolutely okay yeah those two items 14 to 15 I'll trying to say something consult with Lisa uh Terry is that your voice I hear huh are you are were you trying to say something you had your hand up that's why I called

059you yep he's talking to he's talking to he's talking to Charlie oh oh what Charlie talking what can you can you I have I am unmuted now they they can only control them you all right so yeah all right so we can go back to that if if if we see a hand up again meanwhile we'll look at deliveries um uh just again gcg recommended um just limiting the size of the truck um so this is the su3 truck which I believe I have is Starbucks I think the fire department approved an Su 40 for their own equipment so the su3 is obviously smaller than an Su 40 what does SU stand for does anyone know I think the 30 is 30 feet but I don't know what the 40 is Su means uh single

060unit single unit he not an articulated truck oh okay it's like a box truck basically thank you Marcel and am I right that the 30 is 30 ft and the 40 is 40 yes yeah okay all right right um just let me know if there's more discussion otherwise item 17 utility poll there's one utility poll being moved and so this is just um putting on the applicant the responsibility for they have to coordinate the obviously the relocation um with the town and the utility company I'm sure they were planning on doing that anyway and they Bear all cost relative to the move of that utility poll is this still true I I remember that the the the original design that was true but when they revised it I think it went away because he did

061the that's my recollection so I I don't know that is correct wait uh who who's speaking there that was correct Madam chair that was marel is correct we did rev uh we revised it so that that poll does not have to be removed I think it's shown on the latest plan so that yeah we went we went through it TR the there was a revision of the of the of the Inception of the of the driveway um and and and it misses the the the poll so this is outdated I don't think we need to have this one so when it went from The Wider driveway because it was an entrance and an exit to it went to the narrower driveway that there's yeah when they were doing the revisions uh including all everything that

062the fire department said the one of the revisions Reign the entrance to the driveway to to miss the pole so I think that condition is not necessary so there is no poll being moved no okay I can confirm that I'll I'll confirm that with Rick okay um 18 is outdoor and Street lighting all Exterior Street now truth be told there was as far as I know there was no lighting plan submitted the design review committee made a note of that um so but um I think the the main points we typically make is that the exterior lighting needs to be dark sky compliant and that light doesn't leave the site boundaries those are the things we usually get out of that so that's why that condition was added in any comment on that okay reason

063all right um building brick we still need to add that in whatever that is my it's that's a Peter thing okay um I think other things are updated there and then the the new thing on this um on the materials is the pergola so this was something in the design Review Committee notes that both K Kate and I kind of noted that um we talked about the paving um on the pergola but I went back and looked at the final the drawings that we were always looking at the set of drawings and the pergola is always just off the view you can never quite you see it in plan but you can never quite see it in an elevation so um yeah these are do you want to bring them up on your screen I

064can bring them on my screen I just have to stop sharing so I think the general did everyone I think everyone has those okay yeah it's just going to be for uh so I think that yeah so this is what Peter had started to describe excuse me no a lot of illness going around right now again um so I think the general materials um and Ron is on there so we may need here to him to pipe in um is I I believe wood to kind of match the wood of the train station across the way trim that matches the wood across the way and shingles and it looks like there's also a kind of a swoop to the a curve to the bottom of that roof um to match the train station as well

065or to reflect the train station uh so this is uh Marcelo and Amanda and all other present members this is the pergola that was uh in question and obviously out of view of other renderings is is this open to the public from the street level yes that's public a public pergola and then I also have a closer view I can switch off so I can stop not to be completely terrible at Direct directions or proving that I'm not to be trusted with directional things but like if I'm standing in front of this building and the post office is to my right like if I'm standing at the old train station looking at this building where is the pergola it's going be right across the street right across it's on the left side of the pocket

066park there's two benches facing each other and it's it's over the left bench away from the building away from the building so you have the painting the mural where's the train station relative to this thing over on the side okay I'm just trying to visualize how this would be used by the public this I think with this you can see this is like in theory if there's a business at the train station 5 years from now people could walk across the street to this thing yeah to the perola this is the entry into the so it's there okay over that bench okay gotcha there's Homer there's okay that helps me because I couldn't quite understand how that visualizes with the rest of downtown thank you I'm not to be trusted when I drive obviously that's

067a good question I'm just like what if somebody said to me go go to the pergola I'd be like I don't know what side of the building it's on plus what is a pergola I've learned something new today I think there yeah I guess it's a little well I don't know it's a one of the a covered bench a landscap yes so um does anyone want to weigh in on the pera the pergula we need some help structal Rao scale of column and the a little it looks a little heavy maybe I mean we haven't seen anything on this I mean yeah it looks like it just stopped in there I'm always hesitant and having things come back but if we're not you know we could ask to see it before it's constructed is this

068something new that the design review did not see the design review noted that they had not talked about it or had not really reviewed it but it remained kind of unreviewed viewed um I I I think what um maybe what what I I feel Deepa is is touching on is the the fact that it's just a two like like it has two supports and and the roof kind of the roof geometry suggests that would be something with like four supports in the corners and I don't know if it that's what makes it look heavy but um um yeah the structure is a little questionable from the architectural point of view like it it's like an umbrella right yeah it's yeah like an umbrella I I I think that I mean that clearly it is intending

069to to kind of um um you know take take Clues from from the station which which it's it's fine to me um I I I think I be fine with it if he just had support from the four corners and I think that that would work but um I I I don't want to unless we we really want to do that I think the architect can make that decision and you want to unmute roning uh can you hear me loud and clear okay good uh go to Newton Center go to some of the old train stations there's lots of two poost canopies out there so it's not a structural impossibility yeah oh no noan vocabulary okay so so you are basically basing it on other examples of similar yeah approach okay I I I I

070I think um if if if the designer feel that that's the way that that it needs to be I I I I wouldn't have an objection yeah I mean I I prefer it two over four because I think it'd be a little bit lighter and a little bit just fewer it's a small Park and so having fewer posts but I would also acknowledge that maybe the whole structure might get a little smaller or lighter um if if needed for you know if if needed for those two posts but I'm I'm okay letting it in the realm of the AR the design architect as well um it could also be the view of the camera the way we are looking at it um especially the closer one looks skewed a little bit May maybe if there

071is inspiration images of where this came from then I'm good okay all right so we will put a condition in there we're just that we that we've discussed the materials M you know of the and that it will reflect the you know reflect the drawings okay next we're at gcg recommended conditions the first one is a test pit I think that's um is just something we're typically putting in now right don't that I think that came from I'm sorry are we going to fill something in yeah we're going to fill something in I I just know our time is limited so I kind of wanted to get through kind of the major things just yep so we're imagine just a reference to the rendering of some kind yes maybe listing the materials we talked about

072wood blah blah blah and um and reference the drawings but you'll still get to review it okay um so the the next one is the the garage basement um this again was the gcg recommend uh recommended condition um and that's so that um there is a a water table that there will be hitting and instead of having sump pumps that will bring all that surface water up to the surface they're basically making a watertight basement um to deal with that condition um which has been in their plan for quite some time actually um Peter you're you're not in that section I believe I'm sorry yes so um the next one is the one-way signage again this is a gcg uh condition and they were just asking for um because the garage is kind of tight

073and the site's kind of tight they were asking for um the professional development of the signage to meet um professional traffic operations um uh for the onewave movement in those areas so um I put that in basically as they as they kind of gave their concern on that just trying to give an overview at least of all the the blue areas before we need to wrap up today um on page 16 um this is a condition I added in um that it just says um for the building design any mechanical electrical or other equipment or vents visible from public streets but not currently shown in the elevations must be carefully placed Andor aligned so as not to Mar the approved elevations so this we all know that there's going to be likely some little things

074these aren't construction drawings right nor they can they can they predict everything that goes into a building at this stage there's likely to be some stuff and they have to do that carefully I um as any good architect would I'm sure Ron is one of those um placement of larger mechanical electrical or other equipment or vents on these elevations so on the public Street elevations is not allowed without approval from the planning board say big electrical equipment or mechanical equipment that isn't on the drawings now I mean I love it my concern is say what's larger to me compared to the applicant or to you right and I I know it's hard to Define but I think we have to try to put some kind of box around what that larger means well yeah I'm

075not sure if that's like I don't I don't know what to how to do that right I think um the this is something that we discussed from the beginning and and we asked uh the architect to Endeavor to put all the equipment on on the wells that they created for that purpose specifically L and I think they confirmed that so larger I think would be taller than the parit that has already been designed I guess but we're can ask Ron on on Ron do you want to weigh in on that I see your hand is raised might be raised from before okay can you hear me now I was muted we can hear you I didn't raise my hand but I'll um I'll comment um so the wells that we created in in the uh

076recess spaces on the roof to help um conceal any mechanical equipment uh will not be visible from the street the solar panels we've strategically placed on the sides that aren't the public facing sides and any um mechanical units are in the basement will be in mechanical rooms the only thing we really don't have control about is of is the um the electrical Transformers that the companies put in uh they sort of dropped them where they want and the best we could do is react to it like landscaping around it um yeah I mean I think that that may be the source of a a pro you know the problem if we have these right now the electrical Transformers in the back right so are you saying that there's a possibility they can put it in

077the front of the building no what I'm saying the the U and Charlie you can comment on this because you've done this plenty of times but there are times when they you know you there's no real interaction with the owner on where they put these things and um um I just want that to be kind of understood that that's something that we don't necessarily have control over okay so you're saying you have no interactions with the from the from the I'd like Charlie to comment because he's he's more more an expert on that than I am okay so I'll uh I'll let Charlie come on can you hear me yes so um we won't have any Mechanicals in the front the only thing that might require Mechanicals is if the commercial space tenants needs to

078put a return air or a condenser or something but we can hide that in the like a r landscape but everything else the main Transformer will be in the back and everything else will be on the roof so it's just sometime the commercial tenants if they're broken up into little spaces we might need to separate a system but mainly if it's one big space we can put it in the back okay I think I think that's I think that's kind of exactly what we're talking about like so it sounds like like individual Plumbing Vents and things or like exhaust vents for bathrooms or kitchens those are all going to be into some kind of main system and are going to be hidden in the main parts of the roof right yeah we could for the

079all the events we can put a trunk line for the um dry events and stuff like that that comes down yeah will see it so I think it's when there are those larger pieces of equipment like what you're talking about if something has to be basically in the public spaces that have been so carefully designed those are the things we want to see before they getall yeah that we won't know until we get to that point like right if the space is going to be divided and right might be 10 years we can't if we can't rent the space somebody might only take a th square feet and might need to put a little condenser in a something but they're they're only I three feet tall by two feet wide they're not big so it'll

080be easy to hide them with a bush yeah but I I think the point still still valid right U the the the whole front of of facing the street was something that was intended not to be the noise and the and and and the visuals of a mechanical equipment I I guess I would ask Ron maybe Ron has an opinion on this I don't know if those those mechanical Wells have been exhausted already with with with with the you know the projections or if there's any any available space Maybe left I would say that they should Endeavor to leave some uh some spare lines to try to put any any tenant um equipment there first and then look into other options if it's possible and the the thing of it is is it might never

081happen yeah it might never happen and that would be great that's why we want uh that's why we want something in there to say if it is going to happen we want know about it yeah I mean all the commercial property I own I never ran into that but sometimes if you we have to subdivide spaces into small spaces that could be a instant where they might need to put a little condenser or something okay I think that's when you so that's when you're going to put into the lease with the commercial usage folks that hey I have this restriction if you need something bigger than 4 feet you're going to let me know so I can bring it back to the planning board right you can put that right into your lease I suggest

082we put some limits on this three four feet so yeah if we do three feet by three feet or four feet by four feet and then anything over that but honestly I don't think it'll ever happen but you never know I mean I think we need to Define what's small and big is because it's like what is that story with the three bears and the chairs yeah it's kind of like that like what I consider to be a big bear you might find like right now Beth had a lady reach out to me that wants to do book store in a in a wine tasting shop or something right but then to us 2500 square feet but I mean right now the building's going to be new so we can design it for that okay

083but you know I mean it's in 10 years when the building's done okay and somebody wants to chop up a small space we are going we're we're going to have to cut that off there because we have a room full of people now um the only thing last thing I'm going to say on this before we continue it is on page 17 is that there's just a little note there about trash pickup when the trash pickup is made they're not going to park on Homer or Avenue to Homer or Alden to get the trash that can go into the lot and pick up the trash yep okay all right on that on that note uh like I said we have something else we have to cover for our planning board tonight we have the select

084board here staring at us so um we will be we have room on our agenda so the the our clock on this is March no yeah our clock on this and and I've taken care of the mechanical stuff with with no pun intended with uh Terry and so but at the next meeting hopefully um we can have a a f a vote and we can file it with the clerk's office the next day so March 29th our next meeting is March 28th okay so March 20 we're continuing this to March 28th we should have um keeping that meeting as open as we can for us to try to wrap up some of these things we have some shorter projects we'll see as well but we should have plenty of time to see that we're going

085to make the modifications that we talked about Lisa me things like that and get a copy back to the planning board again with those areas highlighted so that people can keep seeing the just the changes that we talked about right questions I just so the ones that we basically approved agreed with tonight those should be taken off blue just to keep this those will be taken off blue only the new stuff maybe we'll choose another color okay yes so um thank you to the applicant for joining us um but we do need to officially continue this to the 28th I'll make a motion to continue 949 Homer Avenue site plan and special permanent application to March 28th second second and a roll call vote de Anna teski I I Katherine Jersey I and Trisha Kendall

086I all right we will see you on the 28th all right thank you very much thank you all right um grab a name tag any anybody you want you want to be tonight grab a chair we're going to try to move how you doing some of the microphones down maybe no rest for the weary okay um before before we do anything do you have everyone here Rob here online one two three four you see them um and is the consultant on okay okay so Rob you want to open your meeting um so I'm going to open the select board uh portion of this meeting uh March 14 2024 uh we're meeting in a joint meeting with the planning board and I'll read the um um just our boiler play from the agenda uh this meeting

087is being recorded and broadcast live by waca TV and live stream on Facebook remote participation is available using a zoom video conferencing platform any disruption with our video conferencing platform will result in the platform being shut down meetings will continue to be broadcast on waca TV and live stream on Facebook U this is a a joint meeting with the ashin planning board reference the MBTA Community bylaw discussion and a possible vote to endorse zoning changes and that is a bit of a change I just want to make sure people aware that we could potentially vote to endorse this tonight if uh if we um if we so um decide and then the other part of the agenda is a comprehensive plan steering committee preced one appointment which I think Michael's been working on um so

088I'll so I've opened the select board me I'll turn it over to you uh Madam chair for the intro all right thank you um I'm just going to give just a really brief intro as to how we got here for anybody listening who hasn't been following um the process um so everyone I think understands about the the MBTA Community regulations that were that came down from the state um we'll get into those obviously later in the meeting and we've described those before um but what this is about is that at some point in the fall I believe um The Joint a joint meeting of the select board and planning board formed a working group um which consisted of town planner Peter machic assistant Town planner um ELO and then uh Joe manani from the uh

089select board and myself um the four of us to kind of um to um work on a means by which Ashlin could fulfill the requirements of the MBTA communities that was our mandate um from The Joint boards so we began that process looking at a lot of different properties to see what we have to see what we could use um we had um a public forum I believe it was at the beginning of February the first one February 6 the first one um and so that was held via Zoom um after that meeting we took the public comments and we tried to revise um our proposal we had a second public forum where we needed to add in one more property in order to in order to make our proposal work and that's looking at

090the more complex regulations um with the state not just kind of the the basic information I'll call it that that's kind of the easier part to understand so we had a second Forum we presented that at the second Forum again held via Zoom we got the responses from that and um based on that we have the proposal that we were going to that we're going to bring to the select the joint boards tonight um that is just kind of the the really quick version um so where do we want to go from here I just want to go into to ELO's presentation yes we have uh Tom planner Peter magic thank you uh so much and great to have the select board here uh but we have two things tonight obviously we have a presentation

091uh from Alvaro assistant Town planner who I will tell you right now has been the backbone to NBTA zoning and so without Alvaro we wouldn't be able to be where we are today I just want to make note of that um in number two we have rkg Eric uh and I'm apologize Eric but I'm going to let you pronounce your last name uh and not me uh sure uh Wiis thank you so much uh so Eric Wiis uh is from rkg um previously just to make a note in the fall um we did receive a grant from Mass housing Partnerships and uh with that Grant we had uh Consultants uh one uh rkg our first and rkg completed economic analysis and our economic analysis is going to be tied to the amount of inclusion Ariz

092zoning excuse me affordable housing that we going to be able to link into our MBTA zoning districts um second we were able to work with Emily in uh in the process of developing our zoning bylaws and so Alvaro and I uh have been working with Emily uh along with attorney me to make sure our bylaws are at a point um they're still um they're they I would probably say uh they're they're complete uh and we are going to be uh in the process of cleaning those up with Lisa and really kind of tightening those up I think tonight we're really just to talk about a method of how we got to where we are in the direction that we need to go in um and so with that said um I am going to let

093Eric okay we are going to start off with Eric uh from rkg uh just to make a note rkg may be similar to some people at this table rkg was hired in 200 and 17 and rkg was actually the firm that completed the economic analysis tool that the use for service uh furthermore rkg is the subc consultant of uh our comprehensive plan um consultant uh J uh JG goson uh and so with that said rkg does know the town of ashin and has history in the town of ashin so um with after that um Eric I'm going to hand it over to you you are a co-host feel free to share your screen and please walk us through the economic analysis study sure thing uh let's see um can everyone see that okay y yeah

094okay great um okay so thank you everyone for the time this evening um so I'm just going to briefly walk through what the EF the economic feasibility analysis is why we have to do it and then I'll go over the results I'll try to keep this pretty brief and concise so that we can just leave time for questions or if you want me to walk through any of the uh slides um so just start things off um the affordability requirements that eoh hlc's compliance guidelines for the multif family districts um has set they have specifically set those so that Municipal municipalities must require no more than 10% of units in a project to be affordable at 80% of Ami if you are considering anything above that 10% that triggers What's called the economic feasibility analysis

095and the simplest way of describing what that is um is it's effectively a Prof forab based model um that you would use in any sort of real estate development analysis and what it's doing is just testing does your affordability requirements and your zoning cause any barriers to development and if that is the case then adding any increased affordability would be deemed economically infeasible and I'll go into a little bit more of what that exactly means um but just to go over a little bit more about what the EFA is doing um we're looking at construction costs so design and preparation the hard cost to build multif family the land costs the acquisition of the land and the physical location we're also looking at things like financing costs your debt debt and Equity to pay for

096the project marketing management property taxes and then we're also looking at revenues whether that's from the the the apartments themselves sale prices as well as parking Revenue so those are those three sort of U main layers to how this model Works um the I do want to underscore the things that the EFA is not um the whole point of the EFA is to test zoning using a real estate method so it's really just a policy sensitivity testing tool it is not an actual site specific real estate development performa so what I mean by that is we're not accounting for any actual architectural plans or building specifics so any of those sort of nuance costs for a project a specific project wouldn't be included in this analysis um other things like land costs those are derived

097from residual land value since no actual trans transaction has been made um as well as with the construction hard costs and some of those assumptions around the cost to build we're using uh proprietary data sources we in we have tons of interviews with developers and contractors but we're not getting actual estimates on an actual project this is sort of your on average development conditions which we then test um the feasibility of and then the final point is interest rates the financial assumptions all these things that sort of impact the model these things change over time and so this is a point in time on average analysis of what type of development is feasible versus what is not depending on your zoning uh parameters so the next two slides I won't go through every statistic I'm

098happy to speak to any of them if anyone has any questions but we present these in the report and I'm showing you these here because EOS hlc requires that we submit these tables just outlining all of the inputs that we use in the model um this is for them to sort of get a sense of where we're coming from as we develop this and we're testing um your zoning and your districts um so again here's some more statistics again happy to speak to any of these if anyone has any questions um but to kind of get to to the more um result side of this um the three sort of metrics that we think about um when we're thinking about an economic feasibility analysis is uh Financial return measures so I have these three referenced

099on the slide here your cash on cash um this is the return measure for the amount of cash flow relative to the amount of cash invested your return on cost the simplest way to think about this is just return on investment and then your irr which is your annual growth rate um from that the investment is expected to generate so we use all three of these return measures to basically determine if you were to build this type of development what would what would the returns be and do these meet Market expectations if they do then the zoning as you have them outlined would be feasible or perhaps they may not be and I I can demonstrate those in in the next couple of slides um but to really just sort of sum things up you

100know what does this all mean in the shortest sort of um phrasing possible based on what we looked at in the EFA model we looked at if you were to consider instead of 10% what if you did a 12 and a half per set aside at 80% of Ami and what would happen if you did a 20 or a 15% um set aside at 80% of Ami and so we looked at these for the rail Transit District the Wildwood mix use special district as well as the pawn Street multif Family overlay district and the the sum of the results is the 12% set 12 and a half% set aside is financially feasible in your uh rail Transit District as well as in the Wildwood misuse special district but it is not in the pawn uh

101mixed or multif family overlay District um so it can support no more than the 10% requirement that the um eohc has for compliance um and so to kind of show what that looks like um if you look at these tables on the right here uh we're showing all those return measures that I was just speaking to and you'll notice all these different unit counts that we're testing those unit counts are derived from your MBTA compliance model which uh if you remember when you're testing different districts it renders a final unit count that all of the parcels could um based on the parcels that you use in your district and so we use those as a set of scenarios to see and sensitivity test if you were to maximize the units on this parcel what would

102happen if you were to do a little less what would happen and if you did a minimal amount what would happen and so that's effectively what these different scenarios are showing and as you can see here with the 12% set aside uh your return on cost which is the really important measure is over 6% which from a market expectation standpoint that is uh considered financially feasible um and then as you and the ones in the red here as you can see for the pwn Street District they're not financially feasible uh just by a hair they're in that sort of 5% range but what we've found from some other communities we've worked in eohc is really paying attention to these and we've we've seen that if we say that it could or Is On The Border

103they're going to come back and say that that's that's not feasible so that's why we sort of caution at that cut off at the uh 6% and then to kind of show if you were to go to 15% as you can see again readed here in the pwn street but then as you can see uh by multiple measures it starts to be a little bit um less financially feasible and again as we've seen from work in other communities when it starts to really become infeasible by multiple measures hlc is going to come back and say uh this isn't financially feasible so we go with the more conservative estimate and that would be that 125% as opposed to the % set aside um for the rail Transit and the Wildwood um mixed uh multif family District

104or mixed use District I apologize and then for the Pond Street um no more than 10% um is financially feasible and then I believe that's all I was planning to present um just to kind of give an overview um I wanted to just sort of open it up to questions I'm also happy to speak to any of the slides I presented or any of the other pages in the in the report would it be possible to get that after the fact it would have been great to have had it before yes we we just got it oh okay yeah just get L under the gun it came in yeah no we have it and we'll post it a lot of data to try and summarize summarized it pretty well no I think everyone we've been

105on a very tight timeline and and so this just came in under the gun and so we just figured it would be easier to present present it have it presented and then obviously circulated after yeah but we do have a PDF and we're happy to we'll post it on our website and then we'll send out the link yep are there any questions related to that Brandy so um thank you for the presentation the numbers are great to to see um my question is you know I know we haven't gone through what we're proposing for for um for Ashland on the MBTA Community side but um you seen communities split the zoning like because if we decided to do a 10% afford if we decided to include pwn Street in the um in in the new

106zoning and capped it at 10% but then we also wanted to include the rail Transit District could we do 12 and a half% at the rail transit district and 10% at Palm Street or is it or is it best practice to have have sort of one affordability percentage for the entire bylaw I guess is my question so in in my experience we've seen it both ways um you could have the 10% and then also have the 12 and a half% or you could just make it a blanket 10 10% um okay okay thank you Kate um on the pwn mix use overlay it the basis for the 10 I think if I read because there was a lot of information that it was based on Assumption of five stories but people don't have to build

107the five stories so I think we need to have some data so everyone here knows if if we're only asking for 10% ashin will never hit the 10% right let's just be clear we know we know that we just want to make that clear so and everyone here that I've been on boards and committees with believes in pushing to get affordable housing somehow ashin fell way below and we're at 5 point something per. so if we're going to be changing our zoning we have to ask for more than 10% now I get that there's a requirement it's not economically feasible so one is Pawn Street and two I did read surveys now I know there are other communities but like Lexington was able to say you're good with 15 you might push it to 20

108we're not Lexington but it doesn't cost as much to acquire land here the rents are very high we just read to report that they're higher than surrounding communities so I I hope that we have the very best data to help us um get to more than 10% well I'd be curious why are we different from Lexington um if if I could add one um just observation related to that so uh when you mentioned the maximum height requirement in the Pond Street District at five stories this is this is a challenge that we've had with eohc in the past they require that we test the maximum the the minimum threshold in which affordability is triggered in terms of number of units and then the maximum buildout specifications meaning like if you're building in Palm Street we

109have to test a five-story building the challenge there is that right now construction costs for Stick Over Podium which if if you're building over four stories then you need to have Podium construction to support going up past those four stories that type of construction becomes incredibly costly and that's starting to become an inhibitory factor is those construction costs when you build higher um in the case of Lexington I'm I'm not quite certain of the their height requirements off the top of my head but in other communities that we've worked if you have a set maximum height of four stories that's what we test and that's wood frame construction and then that would work that's why it works in your other two districts why we can't test a project less than that five story maximum because

110even though it's a Max story height Max height of five stories you you technically don't have to meet that Max but eoh requires us to test that uh we we've asked them why because we experienced this in in a couple of other communities and that's just sort of the response that we've been so we aren't allowed to make if you build it five stories sorry we can't ask for more than 10 but if it's four we could I mean is aren't we allowed to do that then I understand your data than presenting but can't can't we ask for a different percentage if someone builds it four stories then I think what's Eric saying is that's going against the state in their regulations so the state demanding the test at the five the I think but

111that I think Eric was going to answer the question yeah so so the way I say it the way I say it because because you have in your zoning a maximum height of five stories we we have to test that if you're going to submit an EA to increase the affordability that's that's basically um the long and the the short of it if you reduced it to four stories or if you add it in other language that's that's a different story all I can really speak to in terms of the EFA is we have to test whatever the maximum assumptions are so just to follow up so that what you're saying is then if we say we're going to put this potential zoning in but we're going to just make it a requirement a four

112Fe a four stories that would change the cost estimate and we could potentially go above the 10% you could then get 12 and a half in Palm Street as well yeah if we go higher no if we go lower if we change the zoning change the zoning on Pawn Street to four stories we we would have to change the Zoning for the whole pwn Street overlay District right would that be how it would h i mean because if we were we couldn't spot so currently in the pawn Street overlay District it is five stories and that goes back to when the pawn Street overlay District was adopted to the so I think in theory yes you would be changing it for the entire element and then obviously we're really just creating a a zone for

113501 and 369 and that's going to be the MBTA overlay Pawn Street district and so what we we would have to do there is compress that down to four which would go from Podium construction down to just stick construction which would be a different what we're seeing on Chestnut Street stre correct how would that change our MBTA data though if let's say we reone all of Pawn Street to get to the 12.5% we bring it down to four stories does that change your analysis for I I think it just changes what we can ask for a affordability I think it's I think it's this I mean though the questions are good for our time tonight I'm not sure we want to go down this road because when we're looking at the property on Pawn Street

114um of of the area that we've allotted there which we will'll see one of them one part of the lot the space is already constructed and the other one is already uh approved at F for 501 Pawn Street at and it's approved at 25% affordable right okay so I'm not sure a deep discussion on this is is worth our time tonight right so that makes sense thank you thank you for that clarification but is there are there any other questions for Eric because I assume well I don't know I don't know what the Eric's time schedule is this evening and we'll be getting into the you know ELO's presentation as well any other happy to answer as many questions as you need questions for Eric I do have one one other little question so if

115when when you say that the Pond Street numbers failed you know for the affordability and would get rejected by um EO eoh EO eohc thank you thank you the acronym um so if if if we would write if if we would write a bylaw that we would submit to the state to um to comply with MBTA communities and it had that and we it didn't meet that criteria the state could reject the bylaw correct is that like grounds for a rejection yeah yes okay I just wanted to thank you okay if there's no other immediate questions for Eric I'll I think Alo are you uh are you on next yes I can I can start presenting um I'll probably turn it over to you to like go through like the last approach but so at

116least we'll have all the information in the big picture and we can discuss it all at one time thank you so much Eric thank you so this is the same power not the same power by a very similar version of the PowerPoint that uh we presented last time that we were meeting and also the one that we walked through the two public discussions um you know as a recap we're just kind of like mentioning that this owning District um has to at least be 50 acres and a minimum of those 50 acres has to be within the MBTA buffer um each individual district has to be at least five acres or greater um so no less than that can just be an EST Standalone District um based on the 3A requirements um the minimum density

117is 15 units per acre multif family we know each restriction Allowed by right um and the districts need to have to access to train station that basically all of the town of Ashland um has that because of the location of the train station um so basically what the approaches were or like what the information was that he was given to us is that we need to based on the 2020 census we have to allocate Sony for 1124 units 1,24 units um and you know like the kind of like as we mentioned from the start there will be two ways that we could do this we could go for a very low density approach where we were trying to maximiz area and land and we're trying to like minimiz density um and you can kind of

118like see the numbers there and then there's also different approach where you are trying to minimize the amount of land that gets sewn but then you are looking at the highest amount of density um which will be an average of 20 units per acre but of course into that is kind of like what Eric was mentioning you have to take into account all the zoning differentiations height um open land all of those kind of aspects so you need to like make sure that all of those numbers play around when you're looking at the total land because you might think that you have the 50 acres and that is working but then when you actually look at open land percentages of that can go away and you need to make sure that the density then plays

119along so it's it's kind of like a trickier game than just you know like putting colors in a map and then just deciding what areas will work and what numbers could run um the gis I think that you kind of like uh seen this before but just to like redirect it um from the state we get the samples of GIS data that they tell us how to at least like navigate the first part of this process uh one of them is giving us information about excluded landone areas that we definitely cannot um touch for these exercise and that's due to ownership so for instances areas that are owned by the town or the state or they had some sort of like use restrictions those are areas that they EST they pre-identify as they're not practical

120or possible for us to use so from the start we did not look at those Parcels um sensitive land is areas that we do can use um for the MBTA the only thing is that for these areas um they're going to be red flaged so it doesn't necessarily mean a negative thing it just means that when you're looking at those areas in a map you have to know that there might be an extra cost due to its location due to its geographical um features so most of it you can see that it's near like reer fronts or anything like that because of the float Zone and that's why it's kind of like shown a sensitive land um and then the density denominator these are I want to say a little similar in the sense that

121it could be due to geographical impacts or geographical features that it impacts it but the main thing is that for the exercise you cannot count these towards the total number of land so let's say if you pick any parcel here that has the light brown area you will have to decrease that from your total number of land but you can still counted for um and that will be deducted to the density so when you're doing your density exercise that that parcel is going to be impacted for how much of the brown space is basically taken so if you have a parcel of one acre and you have a brown space of 0.3 Acres you can only use 0.7 to actually like measure the density um yeah I mean I think I can turn around to

122Trisha so she can walk over the district itself yes so this goes back to just our um our kind of continuing um analysis about how we approach these sites first we had General discussions about all kinds of areas across Ashland um that included obviously the big chunks of the rail Transit District um but as well as other properties around Ashton some of which um have projects the planning board has recently approved on them such as um C is 100 Chestnut Street um D is um D is 501 Pond right and well and and its neighbor um but e is the uh kenwall lot uh we were considering obviously we're considering um area C which is um part of the area between um uh near near the train station and along Pleasant Street and uh and

123we're considering a couple other places that well that we kind of just ultimately decided we couldn't use because part of it was Town property or it was just way out of the zone or inappropriate use so um where we the second part of our um our thoughts and looking at this um actually entailed a couple things one is that as we've gotten feedback from members of our community that um hey Ashen has already done a lot as far as housing and the planning board knows this a lot right about permits you know projects that we've permitted as long as well as Cirrus that was has been a while now but you know we've already we've already as a town added a lot of housing you know to Ashland um over the past 10 years or

124so um so we were conscious of that and then we were also conscious that we have a um comprehensive plan process in the works right now um and so we wanted to be careful about making decisions for the town when the town meaning the residents and the public were in the process of making decisions for for ourselves for the for the larger group so we took both of those things into consideration and we really started to focus on um land that we have already built on that either it's already built like Cirrus or it is already approved to be built on um like the um uh 501 Pawn Street or um not gcg g ugc ugc the initials right or ugc which is the um uh over 55 community in in that District um so

125we were we were basically L landing on four pieces of property to make the numbers work and as Alo was going through all those different kinds of land exclusions and it has to do with the current zoning there's a lot of information to put in so that it's spits out yes it's approved or no it's not right and so um those ended up to be Cirrus um ugc um 100 Chestnut Street and 501 combined with the um 369 369 which is the memory care facility next door it's already built but those two properties together because we have to have a 5 acre minimum for any parcel to count and and 501 Pond was too small so we focused on those four properties which with minor tweaks in the zoning to get them to fulfill the

126requirements all of all of the units that we needed all of the acreage that we needed basically hit those properties or are fulfilled by those properties which with our feedback from our two forums which granted I mean maybe we had 20 people around on our each Forum granted isn't a mandate from the people or anything like that but the for the people seem to be appreciative that we were keeping it to things we've already done um at least at the present time so that was that is what we were we are now delivering to the Joint boards as uh as where we have landed after this however many month Endeavor okay thank you is that the um your presentation anyone else happy to answer questions that's the information that we have for you questions or

127comments from folks I have a question so um I know we've said this before but we didn't say this tonight that the um the 1100 change units that we 1124 units that were zoning to um to to have built it's a really just a zoning exercise we're not really building 1124 units um and MBTA communities is not saying we have to build these units it's really just saying we have to Zone to be able to build by right for these correct that's right that and that's to be something obviously it always came up at the forums and something we made clear that none of this mandates that a single unit is built it's just has you have to have the possibility that it can be built and you can also designate that land on property

128that is already built that that's that's okay too in fact I think many communities I think take that approach when they're in the situation we are so um so my other one other question that I had because we had some some feedback about Pleasant Street um which I think is not in but it's a different C right okay so if I saw that chart right it's it's like 6.09 Acres that parcel that you guys took a look at if and I'm saying if we were to include that in the zoning what would the density what how many units could that potentially add to Ashlin because I think we need to also understand if we do change any Zoning for what we approve for MBT ta communities from what you guys are recommending that there would

129be an impact because this would be by right and there would be an impact that we um you know to town services and potentially um you know development that we would not have a say in as far as the planning board it wouldn't come to the planning board um so I I I'm curious do we know what that I think by R still comes to us they still have to review the and approve comes through site review is through site plan approval process but it wouldn't but it wouldn't be anything negotiate as far as unit right unit size those types of things that right that we're talking about I think the um so if that is that that's area it's about six that area that we were considering yeah I think it was yeah so

130um at 6 Acres 15 units an acre which is a minimum that it's 90 units okay so that would be you know in that area that would be that's what we would have to BU right minimum for that area okay can I just kind of confirm on the reverse if we don't Zone that area by right a developer can still come in with a special permit to build density that's that's correct so um and I think that's an important point because we're not zoning to prevent development dense development can always be proposed anywhere in our community with a special permit project I just want to make sure that's clear to the public that that specific process is Far and Beyond the uh by right it takes a lot longer and it's a little bit more

131expensive to the to the individuals so uh that should be also added to that comment as well that's interesting I have yet to see the planning board deny a special permit project um I just had a couple comments here um you know so one I guess on some level I'm confused by what our goal is because on on one hand we're talking about uh let's increase the N number of affordable units we can build and then on the other hand we're saying well we're going to uh permit this but we're we might not never build right so you know and and I understand pros and cons and I'm not suggesting where I even come down on between those two things but they they seem uh like they're at odds with one another um I I

132think they I I think it's just exploring to me it's just exploring all avenues of the development as if there was nothing there and then 12.5% would be better than 0% affordable or better than 10% affordable but yeah I think right now I mean of the two and and granted anything can happen just because projects are approved that doesn't mean they're getting built right but the two approved projects that are currently still with an empty site are both at 25% affordable right so but but they're not there right so um yeah so it does seem a little bit at odds um it's just kind of the it's kind of the yeah the timeline that we're on I guess yeah and then I I think um you know to Anna's Point um you know when we

133talk about Pleasant Street and we talk about the property that that's adjacent to um the station you know it does make sense to to build housing there for right does seem like you can walk to it right um and and while I say okay well you know but maybe I mean that can happen anyways but it sometimes if we let stuff happen anyways when it comes before the planning board and you all can't come to an agreement with a developer we end up with a 40b project well 40b is is a leadership thing to set in place to try to meet 10% right that's not controlled by the planning board I mean we have it is if if you're negotiating right with a with a developer and the developer gets frustrated and walks away that's

134when they come back sometimes right with if we had 10% they wouldn't be able to do 40b right but right if we had 10% of housing of affordable right but we I think there's always I go back to respond to one of her your your comment about the zoning and building yeah the the idea here because I've I've I've also been conflicted about that it's like okay we have to create the zoning but we don't actually have to build it and I think what the state is trying to do with this zoning is have the ability that should someone want to come in and build it they have the right to do that and they're not telling us we have to build it but we have to have the ability for someone to commit yeah

135no I understand that but I'm thinking what do we want never mind I mean I understand what the state's kind of forcing but ultimately what is it that we want well and that's why Claud I think if I could go ahead I I think I think I know what you're saying I think um and the way I look at it is I feel like Ashland has already done what the state wants and I think because I think what you're identifying is attention hey we want more affordability than why are we just zoning where we already built so it feels like a disconnect but to me it feels like the same thing because essentially to me Ashlin has gone above and beyond if you drive around to other communities we have already done it so we're

136not the reason the MBT law exists I think for other communities that need to get there they should catch up to us right I agree and then but then in reality to to miss G's point in her email about um you know the fact for comparing to Southboro and what Southboro is responsible for doing well because they lower density you know the way they're automatically have have less responsibility it's you know again the state the way this is written it does it penalizes communities who have done some work not to say we're perfect but we've done some work right um so that that you know that's my editorial comment I suppose um right the more work you've done the more dense you've become the more punished you feel right which is why if we Zone

137to the areas where we've already developed we're less punished yeah yeah again but is it still enough at least that's one perception I'm not saying we're being POS some people believe we are and then my last question just and I'm not suggesting that that we do any go down this road really but I'm curious what do we know what um it would cost us if we were not to do what the state is telling us to do what what would be the actual grants that we would lose um you know I I know Milton is you know got all that publicity and I think theirs was $100,000 um in that particular so I can stop you right I'm going to I'm going to ask you this I'm going I'm going I'm going to read them

138right now right number one Mass Works number two housing Choice number three local Capital project funds furthermore planning Community planning grants from the eohc down Massachusetts downtown Innovation grants Urban agenda grants Rural and small town development grants please note Ashen does not qualify for either a rural I mean for a rural or small town development Grant we are greater than I believe the threshold is uh 7500 uh population a population size of 7500 so to follow up from claudo what you've just read right are the our potential grants our gr that we can no longer apply so which is an important point and correct but what do you have a ballpark numbers of what I I realize there might be a huge range there Mass works we have what almost we've almost had no almost

13912 million right we had Mass works so it's a significant it's a huge punishment down I would say the mass works I would I would I would I agree with yoland can I put a number on it no however this town of Ashen has received in the range of 12 to5 million in massworks Grants I would say over the last few years okay so it's it's a huge number it's not $100,000 that we're at at risk correct I want make a note Michael does have his hand up Michael may have and Marcelo does does as well so um Peter I'll let you uh Michael uh well Marcel do you want to add to the conversation uh sure uh I just just just listening to the conversation it it's more and and again that's uh everybody

140that has worked deeply in in in this subject it's it's a lot better verse than than me but it the the conversation about those areas adjacent to the station uh just made me think and I think was Yolanda that that that mentioned um uh what what why is that not included and you know I I get all the the the control versus not control if it's a as of right however it it seems to me that it I have more like a philosophical kind of overview of this the the the overall objective of this effort by the state is to uh incentivize and to generate housing uh close to the train stations for obvious reasons that area on on on Pleasant Street I I I agree I don't know who said it but I I

141it seems to me that that that by by not including that for whatever reason we're almost just trying to comply with the Mandate just by by by by going around in circles and and and and you know uh matching checking the boxes which is fine it's one way to do it but if if I guess I would just question are we not really committed of developing density in downtown close to the station because it seems to me that that whole area on on Pleasant Street and adjacent to the station should be uh by default uh is is is a prime um uh candidate to to fulfill that uh if that's really what we feel um so I just wanted to make that com I mean I I'll tell you as somebody who takes that stop

142like I I park my car at the si side and I take that train ride back and forth right if I don't go to the West Nao stop but what I'll tell you is we have complied we do have dense housing right next to the train station on the si side and by not having on both sides we're not somehow escaping responsibility we have a lot of density on right next to the train station at cerus and there's there's a beauty to some control for us as to what happens on the other side because on the other side you're very close to downtown and nothing prevents a developer from coming in and proposing density on the other side but to do it by right means Marcelo that you would not be able to as a

143planning board member have some say in certain characteristics that might make it more consistent with your Downtown Vision that I know you have and so nothing prevents developers from trying to build dents on the other on the other side but it is much closer to downtown and we as a planning board should have some say through special permit we have a Marcel do you want to finish and then I'm gonna let Michael have a have a chance go ahead Marcelo sorry no no I was just going to say I I I I I I never said that we were trying to skirt responsibility yes so not say what I didn't say but I I'm just saying that that uh the downtown by default has a form code that allows people to build by right certain

144things that everybody has agreed is proper for for the downtown um why would that not be able to be to to take place there um I I think um those the down you would have to be I'm not sure about that if it's in the downtown zoning District um would they still have to would would new construction in that area as a as a by right have to follow downtown zoning District regulations I'm sorry would it have to follow form based code yes like it would so if we're coming in if we're going to make an amendment so this hasn't been done yet and just by the way because we didn't go down this road within obviously our working groups and in our public forums right we start to think about this but yeah you

145would any building Within in the add district is going to have to be fall under this under the add requirements yes so it would be by right but with the add zoning requirements correct okay however this is the thing right is that we would still we would have to change the a the the add the Ash and downtown zoning District to make sure it complies with all of all elements of the of the MTA communities the MBTA legislation so there's things that we may have to go back and start changing is section c that's showing on this map Downtown no oh no that's 100 no no on so on this map yes on the old one so the southern side of Pleasant Street southern side of Pleasant Street isda is overlay District so that's considered

146downtown yes yeah oh under in terms of the our zoning Zing ad ad the southern side of Pleasant Street running from the down running from Main Street all the way to the station ad daa is overlay district and it covers 10 to 60 Main Street there's some sections in the downtown and then it runs the entire Southern Southern side of Pleasant Street which is to to the train station the underlying zoning in that district is industrial right so an add was a adopted they created Adda as an overlay district add sections B and C are base zoning one would say okay I just want to excuse me I just want to make sure I understand because we're talked about that zone C being right by the the station and that's been subject to some discussion

147but you're saying that's controlled by add a d a all the way right all the way to downtown and they all have to have the same conditions so you can't you couldn't separate out Zone C and put it by itself well we could but we're saying what it is right now okay but anyway right before we go too far yeah here I want to go to Michael Herbert who's been waiting and that's just the zoning map so it's a little more clear the actual that's good so that's interesting good evening everyone good evening um so I just want to provide go back to Claudia's question and uh provide a little bit of context on the grants um so first of all the probably the biggest one is obviously the massw works Grant so we so

148far have secured um just slightly under $10 million in Mass Works grants to support uh infrastructure projects including downtown uh over the last uh 10 years um another one that we've received is the Commonwealth places Grant which uh helped support The Corner Spot uh which was about $50,000 and then I believe the last one you read off feet was the municipal vulnerability preparedness Grant if I I didn't I didn't get the I didn't finish all the grants I'm sorry so there a lot of Grants yeah so I believe that totals what we've been able to secure is $100,000 through um through that program and one thing I want to make clear is that some of these are planning grants and while the the numbers might be smaller like the MVP the municipal vulnerability preparedness grant

149program those might be smaller what they do is if you complete those and you complete the planning through those grants it makes you eligible for larger grants for construction and um I don't have exact figures for right in front of me but like with the housing Choice Grant which we would also be ineligible for that goes up to $250,000 um so you know know I I don't want to say it should be the only factor in consideration um when you're determining what you want to do here but there is some significant uh financial implications that are on the table all right thank you thank you Michael all right I went to uh give Amanda Amanda a chance to come on oh that would help too many uh situations hi guys can you hear me yes

150y hi um my name is Amanda Walsh um Pine Hill Road um I've been on a couple of these meetings and I'd first like to thank everyone thought it was okay hold on just a minute Amanda sorry yeah I was thinking it was the other Amanda my mistake but I was going to open it up to public comment when we get done with this so sorry Amanda you you can go ahead okay um I've been on a couple of these meetings and I first like to thank everyone involved I know you guys have worked really hard on this um and I really like this plan and I just wanted to you know say that from a residence perspective um I think that this plan has a great chance of passing at town meeting too um

151there have been quite a few people who have come out and said that you know they don't want more density in town and I think in order to get their support this approach is a great one um and has a good shot you know at potentially passing at town meeting um I strongly personally disag agree with including Pleasant Street um you know we have already developed other areas you know on this plan and we like to see the comprehensive plan be completed or further along before we include land that is not already developed um I'd also like to you know leave Pleasant Street open to give planning board feedback if somebody comes in and you know a developer wants to develop that land um you know lastly I think before this goes to town meeting

152residents need to be informed on you know this is a zoning change and I think that's a huge misconception I think a lot of people think like oh if you you know if this passes that town meeting that we're going to build all this housing and that's not the case and by you know keeping the plan with you know current housing that's already been developed and if we can get that message across I think that you know this would pass more easily so thank you guys thanks thanks Amanda and at this time I do want to take a few minutes to open it up for yeah public comments can I just um make a statement before to that thanks um so I did want to thank you folks on the subcommittee for all this hard

153work um and um I did um and I think it's a very good plan and in terms of um you know passing I think we understand that we can do this with relatively little impact but I do um I did want to point out that I think we're missing an opportunity here and I I understand an's point about being possibly able to have a developer come in and use the Zone C but if you know but and also the idea of waiting for a comprehensive plan to make that decision but I would remind everybody this is a public process this will go to town meeting this is elected officials talking about the plan so um I think procedurally if we feel that and I personally think that we're missing opportunity in zone C because it

154really is it's right by the train station it's already developed that whole area is already developed so we kind of missing an opportunity to build um you know to add to housing and one of the ways you get housing more affordable is to build more housing and build it in the proper place this is the proper place this is the rail Transit District this is why we have a Commuter Rail station that's why they passed this law so I think you uh suggested some very good things here I think we can live with this but I think we're missing this opportunity um and I think um it's across the street from Pleasant Street okay but it's not that's it's not in a neighborhood it's already developed uh so I think we should look closely at

155that and I think this committee ought to um consider taking a very close look at including that um I I doubt that a planning board in the future is going to feel uh who knows what they'll what they'll feel but the idea that they're going to allow housing to be built that's not already zoned and permitted I think is is really unlikely um and that's not the best process anyway the best process is this process where we're talking about it and we're going through a very public process so I would um again my thanks for all you you folks effort I would just um my personal position we got to look very closely at including Zone C uh to see if that's feasible um and fits with you know so thank you thank you okay

156so this time I will open it up to public comment we'll go with our usual um our usual specifications on that which are three three minutes person one time to the mic I'll let you manage Peter minutes three minutes Danny yeah my my wife Dan J from burnhams and ashin uh I run own burnhams it's been on our family for since 1938 the process of putting the MBTA station in back it started in 1992 it was never completed in 200000 till 2002 uh during that time the initiative of putting some dense housing in the area The Proposal most by Bob gaina mostly he wanted to put 750 units up on that Hill it ended up to a 398 I thought that was a pretty good compromise and I was pretty much instrumental my wife and

157myself because we thought that's a good idea to have people near the train station in Li of that instead of having 750 the negotiations ended up as you know at 398 but then at the top they made some uh concessions to have I believe it's age restricted and I believe that's under litigation right now I tell you if you change that Bob Gainer is not going to let that go he's going to go full-fledged to try and get as many units as he can up there that has been what he's tried to do over the years now Anna says that we've done our part I was part of that big part of it and I supported it we're looking for a little support on our two acres and all I hear is we can't do

158that there's no discussion as to the the logic of the law as as Rob just stated the law was there for a reason it's not as if this whole thing's going to come flying apart if Pleasant Street gets included in this way and some way shape or form Marcelo did the same thing this is the first night I've heard both Rob and Marcelo to step up to the plate and say what they think and I've watched every meeting on here I haven't been able to attend them because uh well I took a night off tonight and closed so I could come down because I think it's important uh as an example I was just doing my taxes my I was doing my uh mileage report I have a thing in my pocket for my uh

159cell phone mile IQ and it records all my trips my entire trip both business and personal for 2023 was 2,97 Miles the average in Massachusetts is 13,500 and that's what this is trying to prevent getting people off of the roads and there's no discussion about this there's no discussion about the pollution no discussion about Energy savings all of it's we're going to do everything we can to avoid and it's been publicly stated the board members have said this is a good job because we've avoided a net zero of any new apartments coming in or any new housing coming in I disagree with that if that's the road it goes down I am going to push it back against it as best I can you might win but but I suppose the district attorney will finally

160make that final decision as to whether the meeting was appropriate or not I don't I'm not a lawyer I don't know but in May uh 30th the town got a letter from the moratorium that was rejected and she stated right within that letter that uh this law is an important part of Massachusetts to provide housing and someone just pointed out the the answer to affordable housing is more units now it doesn't mean it has to be out of control but our two acres that's not going to change the world and I've never seen so much resistance on such a simple premise my wife probably has more to say than myself that's my three minutes thank you thank you thank you d do you want to jump to someone online or okay hi larange Jerry Burnham's

161restaurant I'd like to thank you rob for your comments it was so important to hear that um I'd like to say that you know pre prior to the previous um public zoning meeting we sent a letter to the planning board and we asked it to be shared with all the board members and we asked if someone could please read it during the public meeting because we would have to close our restaurant to attend unfortunately the letter was uh acknowledged but it was decided that it was just too long to read it would have taken about four minutes so in the meantime all the participants at the zoom meeting got to speak more than once with no time limits and ironically most of the conversation was specifically about us or the street we live on so

162they got to be heard um and there was Praise In Praise for all the new voices that participated in the process yet the one person who's lived here for 70 years didn't get to be hurt so I'm hoping tonight to read the letter it's changed a little bit be with me it should take a few minutes okay and and I'd like to bring up a different point that I don't he talked about which is traffic in Ashland a is at our business the most common complaint we hear about Ashlin is the traffic rail Transit zoning should alleviate traffic so how have recent developments in permitted projects address this problem a few examples Chestnut Street which you included in your option 29 units per acre in a residential neighborhood these occupants need to drive through downtown

163or along 135 to access the train Homer AV also 29 units per acre will we support the idea of a walkable community and hope this makes the downtown more vibrant we suspect most of these residents that would like to access the train will drive rather than walk a mile again through the downtown 13 or 135 traffic congestion and third Ashlin Woods which is next to TJ's this one is also in a residential area and appears to be 29 units per acre the website advertises a community amenity one mile from the commuted TR rain train station but to access the amenity requires adding to the traffic on 135 yet here we are at burnhams with a very similar size property to Ashlin woods but with the great amenity of stepping out your door and hopping on

164the train I can tell you that from living at burnhams when I also had a Boston walking tour business it was such a privilege to have a train at my doorstep but somehow the town boards refused to consider us as a potential for rail Transit use and unlike other projects in residential neighborhoods our property is surrounded by an MBTA parking lot with the closest Neighbors being a daycare center and serus apartments one more point about traffic we also provide commuter parking on our property before Co we had 100 WR 30 pckers it is much less now but have seen a 50% increase just this year especially recently I can tell you that currently 55% of from Ashlin will the other 45% travel to Ashland from other towns Hopkinton Southboro Milford Hopedale Holliston Hudson Malboro and

165Framingham Apartments here could dis displace some of that local traffic also the comparison to Milton's complaint that the MBTA is not providing the transportation the community needs so that people are driving into Boston is not relevant to our rear line with such an increase in Riders now I'd like to make one presentation new Option add the 12 acres on Pleasant Street that was removed from the original presentation observations from the last Forum board members do not think it will be right to include this area because it would negatively impact the residents on the north side of the street with one member referring to this is very dense yet the planning board presentations claim 15 units per acre is low density also Forum participants from outside the area are opposed but I'd like to know has

166anyone who actually lives on Pleasant Street responded okay here's a plan since area A and B are now 39. 62 acres after removing the 20 acres you could add the 12 acres on Pleasant Street to equal the 50 acres required then you could make Burnham's lot a subzone with a higher density his some math 12 acres * 15 UPA minimum equals 180 units total Burnham subzone 1.9 Acres * 29 UPA equals 55 units the balance of 125 units for the remaining 10 acres equals 12.5 UPA regarding sub zones I was told at Town Hall that you can't do that however the state guidelines say this quote please note that communities can manage density on a subdistrict level lower density subd districts can abut existing neighborhoods or natural resources while higher density subdistricts can be farther

167away as long as your average District density is greater than or equal to 15 UPA your bylaw should be compliant also there is a similar statement in ashlin's section 3A overview by the way much of that is owned by the church do you really think the church or the daycare center will go out of business in build Apartments final thoughts we understand the sentiment of the boards as well as residents who do not want more Apartments it's too much change but given the small size and ideal location of our property we believe there is no better place for apartments we understood the walkable Community concept back in 2000 when the station was built and the serus apartments were proposed and were happy to be included in the ashin downtown district resoning several years later at

168the combined board meeting in on November 15th one board member asked what about burnhams another said it's not part of this with specific density by right so we have more control over those types of projects in what way does the town plan to control us this property means everything to us and I'd like to add one more comment from tonight um I could say a lot about it but I'll just simply say the special permitting process you're talking about will benefit a developer who can wait it out and spend lots of money after many years it does not help a property owner zoning by rightwood thank you thanks right thank you I'm going to go to uh some people who have been waiting online Peter can you manage that yes uh thank you so much

169so the first up uh first person a hand up um and Mark I will come to you next uh but is Alex Kee Alex I am asking you to unmute hi guys thank you Alex ke over on pin Hill Road um first off I'm glad I could hear what they had to say about burnhams uh I just want to point a couple things out I'm dead set against us including Pleasant Street on the plan um I can speak from personal experience and working for the town for many years uh the traffic congestion on there is unbearable as it is your average time triples during a heavy communting hours and when we were talking about redoing Main Street it was discovered that Thea traffic plan was done in the midst of co uh producing very low

170numbers because everyone was at home um as it stands right now increasing stuff uh traffic coming down into that area um I know in talking to the DPW many years ago the bridge at Pleasant in cville needs to be replaced it's long overdue and I know that's a battle with the state but who's responsible for it hearing that you know we're talking about 45% of people according to the woman from Burnham are traveling from outside of town to come in I see that number getting higher if not doubling because people still have to travel from High Street and from uh the northern side and southern side of town and from the southern side of South bro or the South side of Framingham when it overflows so we're still going to get an influx of people

171coming into town even if we were to build on Pleasant Street that that's not going to go away by any stretch um the other concern is people going to start using Winter Street as a cut through I know that we've already had a gate off the back in the Winter Street to cause people to go around because they were using it as a cut through uh there's already heavy traffic being pushed out on the strobis lane in that area with people cutting through trying to skip the traffic that is already on Pleasant Street so I'm saying keep that off uh I understand what the uh the family from burnhams is saying but I I think we're we're doing well by keeping Pleasant Street off the dock and on this to try to decrease the traffic

172congestion that we already have going into downtown because you go down there at 8:00 in the morning while the buses are going it could take you 15 to 20 minutes to get through downtown and you can see just a sea of cars going down Pleasant Street so I'm against it thank you thank you Alex I'm going to come to the next uh person ignore public comment and that is in the room Mr M do can you please step up to the podium thank thank you Mark the Sony 49 hathon Road I have a concern and a comment and then a question the concern is has this T Station had a ever built um parking lot sold out in the years has been here uh yes I've seen it pre-co pre-co PR completely full okay the

173uh concern the the comment is um what's the goal if there is one for MBTA this the Zone in the housing zoning what's their goal at the end of this if it passes through if it does pass more housing more housing plain and simple to and more affordability and more yeah okay question semi traffic more more housing more people has the state have a percentage of being build out for this town I don't think the state has a buildout number for us I think the what they're trying to do with this MBTA zoning is increase of the availability of potential housing I know we as a community are looking at our buildout based on as part of our comp plan and other times but I don't think the state has a buildout number and it's

174certainly not going to be based on the NBTA zoning and for the MBA zon have I'm I'm on the fence either way I'm not Milton wise I'm not Asing wise but I'm going to just listen to everything that comes out of it because I don't take the I don't I live in my own house already and I'm saying this this board boards has got to hear what the state has to get more legal zoning and with the change of zoning that is coming up will this is this zon have to go through the town meeting bylaws yes and how and how would the vote have to come out 2/3 or unanimous no I think it's just it's a simple majority vote icept a majority so we're going to be seeing that down the road and

175then hoping that people will realize that it's going to be working for housing but can the the school handle more education I had to look at it from the outside of the box too that's it thank you thank you Mr Don next public comment is going to come via Zoom Jo G Friday I asking you to unmute yes thank you um first um I think thank you for thank you all for your hard work um obviously this has not been you know I'm exhausted so I can only imagine how exhausted you you are just trying to just trying to comprehend it all um I as as I don't think there's any secret that I wish that the towns had banded together what I feel is the state major overreach and I think it's wrong but

176having said that I do think that the plan that you have in front of you is the best plan for the town I think that um specific um sites aside um like the Jaris which I which I feel for um um I think that right now that the town is at a Tipping Point and I think that um our schools our water and sewer um we just can't afford more we need to take a breath I guess is what I'm trying to say and reassess and see what what what we can really accommoda in this town forward going I think we're if not if not built out I that would be interesting numbers to know um I think we're pretty close close to what we can our capacity for um based on our service so

177thank you again for your time and I appreciate it take care thank you Jo thank you Joan with that that ends public comment so so just to think about I mean it's 10 to 10 nothing unusual for the planning board but uh so um but we do have to figure out we have to figure out a path forward no matter what that is because as we started this process our goal was always to hey can we make Springtown meeting that was a goal at on our current path the answer is yes we can make spring town meeting so I think that's a question of whether that's still important to us or if there's more discussion that has to be had I I'm not sure but it seems like if we're making changes in what we're

178proposing that might automatically mean fall um yeah I can take a I can just know so hold on just a second so I just want to like I think that's in a way that's a level of decision we need to understand understand tonight um and we need to understand the implications of that let me let Peter put his thought in about scheduling yeah just from from a time management obviously we're always on a tight time frame coming through this process the way everything is set up right now in the trajectory of the bylaws it does not clude in Pleasant it does not include Pleasant Street we are there we have the edits we you know to the bylaws we have everything rolling through we have um obviously our compliance model data all set up ready

179to roll with our text being uh reviewed by Lisa um and through this process right we the planning board right have to have a public hearing on all zoning bylaws I have to have that posted and advertised right if we are going to make changes I would suggest that we take the six months and we go to a fall town meeting now with that said and I know there could be El there could be questions I will say it is happening right now that as bylaws are being drafted bylaws are also being submitted by communities to the state for review right and so you are taking some of that process you you'll be taking some of that process out uh regarding not some of the process out but regarding some of the risk if the

180AG is going to accept the bylaw out if you're getting your bylaws reviewed prior to adoption um does everyone understand what I'm saying but if we go to May there won't be a chance for review is that correct so because of we're under the timeline right we are doing our best with Town Council who has been who represents as you know Rob many cities and towns in Massachusetts right and so she is going through the process and highlighting things that we may have to change along with our consultant done the same exact thing right so they're reviewing it and they think we're in a pretty good place and I think we're in a very good place right and I will say we do have some of the building blocks and thank you to the town

181of Ashland that reson this RTD District in 2003 and I will state that the town of ashin did grow by 10% and added 800 units between 2010 and 2020 fun facts however to go back to the bylaws and the trajectory we were on if we are going to change elements of what we proposed um I think we're most likely going to we should most likely shoot for a volatile meeting so could we comment on the public comments we've heard and maybe figure out if we are feeling a consensus of sticking to the draft as is or changing it please yeah um so I I have to say I'm very appreciative of the comment from the the Burnham owners I I understand the passion especially in light of the fact of how support they were over

182their history here of bringing more density to that area um and I'm trying to kind of make uh make peace with their position and and what I'm hearing from the public and my personal comfort with the plan as drafted I don't think we need to redo it um and I think where I'm landing is I am not confident that this MBTA resoning is the right mechanism to respond to your concerns and what I mean by that is right now I leave you can build density of 10 per per acre where you are the MBTA zoning would push that density way higher probably into the 20s if I understand this correctly probably even higher than that right we would be why wouldn't it be 15 it could be 15 it could be 15 okay yeah okay

183um so just to confirm so is that correct they could build now at 10 units per acre so so 80 da applies and so if anybody came along and I'm not going to pinpoint bars I'm going to say any property on if any property on Pleasant Street comes in right they can use the ashin downtown overlay District a as their pering mechanism and they can do 10 yes yeah and in doing 10 they're also being consistent like right now you can propose 10 with the add district and I'm just looking at the the documentation from 2021 three years ago when this went through town meeting so very very recently the town of Ashland placed on that property the add restrictions including the 10 per acre that's very very recent a few years later through a

184very different mechanism to change it to higher density doesn't feel like the right approach I would feel more comfortable with that being proposed to the steering committee of the comprehensive plan and exploring whether we can push higher density in a more thoughtful way that is consistent with all the work that was done through the effort what is it three years ago very very recently um so that that was one comment I was going to make and then the other comment is even if it's 10 now you could have a special permit for more and again I have yet to see the planning board deny any special permit this planning board h oh thank you um Peter do you want to unmute Michael Michael as a co-host uh Michael please uh unmute yourself I um I

185just uh wanted to make one comment regarding the ugc property and um just to give you a little bit of the history of it um when we were looking at buying lot three of the RTD as part of that NE negotiation what we did was we had negotiated um a give back of lot two so lot two was 38 acres and as part of the lot three deal we negotiated 20 to 24 Acres of that 38 acres of lot two coming back to the town and so one of the things that I've been concerned about is the same thing that Mr jari had had pointed out was that if this litigation this protracted litigation between Mr Gainer and the current current um or proposed developer of the 180 units at ugc fell through what kind

186of exposure would we have at the ugc property if um if uh we were to rezone this under the nbca zoning uh that is being proposed and I just want to let you know I calculated that out to units and um so I just wanted everybody to be aware of that as you're making your decision and deliberating so we have right now now 180 units that are slated to be going up there um if that falls through and the Zone the zoning as proposed goes through and the ugc property is included as part of the NBTA zoning our exposure there would be 216 units oops did you say 260 or 216 2 216 216 so it's about what 1520 more 25 well that's interesting I'd to make a comment on the schedule I I said

187this way back when we started I I'm very reluctant to have something pushed a fall because I feel like that says to the community you have to pass this and and essentially right that puts it um if it goes to spring and it doesn't get passed there's chance to recover and hear from the public which we've been asking to hear from the public but the town meeting is another mechanism to hear from the public the public has a right to vote it down they also have a right to vote it down the fall but we're going to be having something hanging over we've just talked about losing grants and things and I don't think that's the right thing to do the community we have to figure out to get something to Spring I I'm fully

188supportive of bringing something to Springtown meeting and very much against having it the one time that people get to vote is under the gun that it has to be passed Yolanda I would I I don't know this for sure but I would think that if we're working toward doing what we need to do and we go to the state and say we've tried this we're going to try again and it doesn't pass in the fall I would think we could you know they would give us extra time I don't know who knows with this AG um but it and it depends on why it fails right what's interesting is we keep hearing about Milton and I actually heard from someone who lives in Milton and they said one of the reasons the zoning didn't pass

189it had nothing to do with the actual density of housing it had to do with the expected increase in traffic that that potential zoning was going to create and that's why it failed in Milton which I found well that's that's a nice easy answer for them to give I'm just saying so anyway I and I go back and forth in regards to you know do we push this through to spring or not or do we or we or you know do we push it out for fall what I'm finding interesting for myself is I like to hear from the public and I've heard some people say keep Pleasant Street in I mean put Pleasant Street in we've heard obviously for some people tonight that they don't want Pleasant Street included I try to consider what

190business owners need and and that's what I'm hearing from the jaros that they'd like to be included um I'm hearing from Michael regards to includ keep keeping um if we have a in there that that could if the ugc part project does not go through we could potentially lose the open space related to that which potentially could impact our upper Charles Trail pathway um so I I I think there's been a lot of good work done but the other the other thing that someone has brought to me is and I don't know how large the parcel is but there's the parcel at the end of Memorial Drive that is currently yellow I don't know what that zoning means so across the street from Dunkin Donuts I don't know how large that parcel is I don't

191know what the zoning is but it's been suggested that that's Highway Commerce okay and I do not believe that parcel is greater than 5 Acres okay I think it has been noted recently though by someone that I talked to I can't remember who was someone in this room and we talked about um and and maybe this was M what Michael Herbert was getting at that if we wait for fall town meeting which I know has its drawbacks but there's also a chance to let some of these other things play out like what will happen at ucg you know what will happen and other sites on town and we'll have more of those answers and then can potentially make changes accordingly I'm not advocating for that I'm just putting it out there as something that was

192discussed and Yolanda were you part of that who I talked to about this I don't know so but like I said I I think some good work has been done we are in the process of having to wrap up the warrant for town meeting you guys are going to have to have your hearings I I I think there's I I don't know that we have all the answers yet to be able to bring this forward to a town meeting vote that's my that's my thought I a I had a question I think Peter you mentioned mened um the idea of having the um the Attorney General review these um so if you know to go to Kate's concern about the the fall town meeting that would give us time to have it be reviewed prior

193to town meeting is that right or not yes yes 100% you know I think what we're talking when I when I when I say that is all bylaws throughout MBTA right have to be reviewed by the they have to be pass after town meeting typically then zoning bylaws have to be SED all zoning and general bylaws have to be sended to the to the to the Attorney General's office and they approve them and they deny them you know they approved our changes to the add in 2001 I want to say and they rejected our housing moratorium in 2023 right uh but with that said the state is working with communities right in the e e eoh LC LC see I I DCd is always easier for me um they are working with communities and they

194are reviewing bylaws as by as bylaws are produced they're also looking at you know uh compliance models which is a very large spreadsheet I'm not going to bore anybody with except Alvaro and uh and and yes the attorney general and so with that said there is a part there is obviously that communication piece which I think you the noted and those lines of communication are open right now between the state and communities um and and I agree and I agree with Kate's point you know do you do you want you to go now or do you wait until the fall there's pros and cons but you the pl board and the select board are ex you know you are the the citizens of Ashland and and it's your your decision you know I think our

195our committee and for some odd reason we're all sitting on this side of the table like it was planned I thought that's I was supposed to I think it was um we've put the town of ashon in a position working with the public with two public forums with a situation to with a process to move forward and if we want to that's great we're ready to go but if we're going to start changing things up if we want to make some edits to it if we want to continue the public hearing process I'm going to say right now we're going to have to look to the fall and just one question can you tell me an example of 10 units per acre development like what does that look like as opposed to 15 does anybody

196what size is Homer Homer is about three I would say three acres no no no but 23 oh excuse me 29 okay 29 so 10 it's more like what condos 12 Pawn Street is very 12 Pawn Street is 18 I believe right now so if you're looking at that no structure that's what it would look like toal hold on hold on 29 units in total so what is that per acre for Homer we're going to find out yeah just out the top of my head though I do I can tell you Pawn Street 12 Pawn Street is one acre and that's 16 units of house I'm pretty sure homer so 10's about half that size is about 910 per acre and so so have you seen the photos for Homer this is Homer we had

197it earlier today yeah kind of is that the new r so the burn and property can in fact have a project like this right now without any issue which looks exactly what the addd downtown district intended three years ago how many units is that 29 no it's not 29 29 for the entire project it's not it's three acres yes so so approxim 10 10 units per acre consistent with what the burnens can build right now and so what I'm suggesting is this is exactly what we want there yeah I don't think we want 29 per Acres which you keep saying we this is this is not 29 per Acres Peter so and so with all due respect I think we've had a ton of public comment and I and I do believe that the burnhams

198can have their economic interests met by a homeres project if there's interest in this kind of project for a developer then the homers can do well with that and Anna says you could have more if you want so no I didn't say that but what I have yet but my point is this is a project that is viable in that area because we're listening and hearing it and we're considering and we're working on it and therefore the homers could have it too or something like it and so we're not preventing them from developing in a way that I think is consistent with what they're looking for but 29 per acre would be a very different kind of project it would be a much bigger project on that side that is not what downtown is supposed

199to look like per threee process threeyear process ago three years ago years AG it's 15 we're talking Madam chair please um I'm sitting here and I and you I'm not trying to put a wrench in this in this project but Kate I understand that you're concerned about you know waiting till till the fall and with all the things that could happen so is there a possibility of having a special town meeting for this specific issue at some point before before the fall maybe early September can I just ask if if if this were to fail in the fall what would then become the risks associated with that for the that's a good question Claud I don't have an answer to that so what would be if we wait for the fall what would be the

200reason for it hold on the risks we know what the risks would be the risk of if if it gets voted down in the fall we wait till the fall and it gets voted waited till the fall and we and it went failed whatever we brought before the town then I I think it supposed to be done by the end this that's the unknown this is the unknown right is that you know I think everyone's in a everyone's in the same situation right now they're telling us that we're not going to be able to apply for these grants right and right now the c town of Milton that's a big risk it's a huge RIS yeah and so we're not going to apply for Grants and we don't know what's going to happen with Milton

201right so that it's it's it's unknown Claudia so if I can continue with my my thought process with respect to the the special town meeting um I'm not that familiar with the special permitting process and Anna I I I understand your your your idea about you know you've never seen the planning board deny a special permit well I'm not sure what the plans are for the Jaris down the road what they want to do with their property when they want to sell it when they're not planning on selling it but I'll use a 10 year I'll use a 10 year window the board's going to be different in 10 years who knows who's going to be sitting at where you're sitting right now and you have no idea what they may want or not want

202so you you can't say you've never seen it there's always the possibility that it could happen but you have to be real about this you just you know so I just I just want to make sure that everybody is aware of that and yeah I only laugh because I imagined myself here in 10 years and well good I I imagine myself at wallwood so so all right let's not get into imagining where we're going to be I wasn't laughing at you I was laughing no that's quite all right I laugh at myself Anna don't worry about uh so but you know there have been people that were were Pro uh were very supportive of having you know uh uh un c section c as part of the uh project on on from Pleasant Street so

203and there were emails that were sent that weren't part of the uh record but I just want to make sure people were aware of that I absolutely read them all so um to say that you know everybody was not supportive of it there there's quite a few people that were at the same token sure and a good point taken by by by Mrs gar is's that nobody in Pleasant Street was opposed to it or we didn't hear from them so uh so I have aor just one one more quick thing lastly if we if we have to do if it's if it's the if it's the board's decision to and I'm saying the select board's decision to add uh section c I guess the question would be what would be the process we need a

204timetable so I'm assuming that we would need to redesign the map yeah we would need to recalculate figures of the units per okay and then we have to go to back to rkg to reaffirm the consultant's uh financial status or the financial uh these of of of that area including C so where you already have all those figures for A and B and the other units all you would have to do is consider what the financial burden would be for Pleasant Street and add that to the total f figures on on a on a spreadsheet so it's not like red doing the whole thing all over again it's just that section so I don't know how long that would take I'm just I just want to I was I was goingon to say I'm not

205I want to let Brandy in here she's been waiting thank you um so you know I appreciate first of all thank you for the work that you guys have done because this is great great stuff and I um the discussion tonight has been really good I think we need to talk about these options and we need to talk about you know the the trade-off between going to Springtown meeting and fall town meeting um you know for me personally we're involved in this comprehensive plan if I had my way I mean we're in the middle of all of our public Outreach for the comprehensive plan and our goal is to reach 15% of the public in Ashland um I if I had my brothers I'd I'd say let's put pause on this MBTA communities for for

206two plus years until we know what the recommendation are going to be but we can't we can't do that um because I think I think when we hear from the public on the comprehensive plan we will hear a lot more voices um probably a very broad spectrum of voices I'm hoping um so you know for me personally you know I I I don't want to make big decisions that would affect the community without that input from the comprehensive plan so I like the approach that you guys have taken about um you know basically fulfilling what this MBTA Community is is looking for I think that that it it really does meet what the MBTA communities is really looking for because we have already done a lot of the work at the rail Transit District we've

207already built a lot of housing we've already permited a ton of housing um so I think like you know and and I agree with Anna I think that the that the the Pleasant Street zoning that we had done the overlay you know several years ago does allow for housing and I would I would love I am not anti-growth anyone that knows me knows I'm not anti-growth I think that that there will come changes to Pleasant Street I think there there will be overtime um but I think for this particular exercise I'm I'm comfortable with what was proposed I'm comfortable with it going to Springtown meeting I'm glad you guys have had two public forums I'm glad we've had the discussion tonight there'll be more discussion when it goes to the public hearing for the in

208front of the planning board there's lots of discussion um and so I I I I personally feel comfortable with what you all have proposed it's not going to ever be perfect none of this is ever going to be perfect um and I think that that ashleen is still going to see changes to Pleasant Street I think that's going to come so um so that's just my two cents I feel I feel good with the with the proposal that you put together Hanna I mean I'll add I it is a town meeting it it's Democratic process we could push this forward and the burnhams could show up and make a motion to um to propose that their part of the town be included and technically we know that it could and so the town could choose

209to push it towards towards that I don't think we have to have everything cooked up for town meeting I think town meeting is an opportunity to say this is what we're presenting and it's an opportunity for the public to go a different route and in fact I think in theory you could have a majority vote agree with the burnam if they make a motion to such a thing I'm not sure that type of motion I'm not sure that kind of motion be made on the floor I'm so sorry thank you for correcting me I I said I'm not sure but I'm I'm not sure that type of motion could be made on the floor of town meeting sounds complicated I'm not sure well so that would fit with my major concern which I have said

210since we started this and I will keep repeating it let's say that happened like there's there's um an alternate motion and people like that idea and they say let's go back to the drawing board now the public got to to speak I my major concern is we're boxing in the public fall sorry if you don't pass this they we might get sued look what they did to Milton I do not want to do that to the public I we can prevent that right so if we can investigate and say everything's good if you tried real hard we'll give you till the spring of 25 I'm okay with that as well but if we don't know that it feels really wrong to do that to the public do we want to take like a I was

211so hoping all this would be done soon but what should be sign up for folks can I asked my question that I was going to ask and um so I know a lot of work's been done you've been working on the bylaws and to Joe's point if we say okay what would it look like to add the section c on Pleasant Street I mean I would think that when you were doing your evaluation that some of the evaluation was done on section c before you decided to pull it out we were starting to get to that point regarding the mathematics behind it you know I think the biggest thing is then you got to get into the add bylaw and actually start making the edits into the add bylaw to make that qualification I would

212ask this question in response if you do add the 12 acres in in along Pleasant Street are you looking to then remove other sections and then also are you then looking to decrease density in other sections so it's kind of for me no I would I would leave everything else the same except ad se you know so it it gets it's not just one answering one question brings up two okay you know and so um that's where I that's my point of view on it now you know we could can and that's where I think everything kind of stands yeah and I guess just to to like the G like just for like the technical aspect of it is yes the partial did exist at some point but I cannot just like drag it back

213into like the model and just do it I will have to redo every single parcel every single District M comply it into the model like the Excel model and then from there we start it because you cannot just like plug it in you have to basically make everything from scratch so you will have it will take some time from like the gis aspect because you have to redo the whole process okay in that part of it okay thank you thank you can you un Marcel y Marcelo uh coost oh you're a co-host you can unmute but you need to unmute oh can you hear me yes yeah um I just listened to the last uh five minutes of conversation what Joe and what Yolanda said it it it almost converges to me because on the

214one hand we have this this approach with one r risk which Michael Herbert explained um and on the other hand we have the possibility uh what that we heard tonight where Pleasant Street could be included and the the the risky proposition of I guess the the other parcel I guess a could be removed and kind of balance it out so my question is very simple because I don't know the the Dynamics of the of the of the town meeting could could the proposal if if if the work that alar and and and others have to have to do is is completed could the could could it be in the in the town meeting a proposal where it says we have option A we have option b and then the town meeting makes the call of

215which one which will address what Kate is suggesting that they have a voice like kind of an informal discussion you mean like an informal vote like like I don't know can you do that so essentially we would present town meeting a choice of either A or B and see which one passes with a majority so one with and one without exactly one with c one without C like as a trial run kind of like as but like well it would be the it would be the final it would be the final town meeting no no that's a tough one you could not do that no I just don't know legally if does that legally I would I as a town planner who sat through many Town meetings I cannot get Beyond I cannot get behind

216that process because from a legal standpoint so once you have a bylaw right it has to be advertised and so it has to be advertised it can't be changed you know and that's what we're going for right and so we're looking to advertise the bylaw changes to be put on the warrant right but technically you could advertise A and B you could say a is with this section B is without this section or whatever like you're advertising an edited version right you're putting the public on notice that these are the two possibilities being discussed or can can any meeting I I I don't want to take on the comprehensive plan but can can any meeting in call for an informal vote on those two options without being B binding so at least we understand what

217the people stand I I can't so so I think what you're what you're suggesting is more of an informal conversation or like a forum a town meeting about it to gather kind of a sense of appreciation and I think that's our job now I think we're supposed to be doing that public input we did two forums the the planning board if we're going to Spring would have another one right we would have one more I believe no we would not we would have a public hearing that's what I mean we would have one more public hearing we would have a public hearing yes we have two public hearings right so we we already had two you got the subcommittee had two we hads those were't official public hearing correct two forums public common today and

218then we would have two more hearings with the planning board so that it would be a total of five opportunities for the public to come with input yeah but but going forward tonight this Zone as of next you know next week right when we finalize and solidify the zoning changes that those zoning CH those zoning changes cannot change once they are are advertised does that make sense so after the pl after we could we could do this right we could continue this conversation post the public Hearing Pro you know post the zoning amendments open the public hearing and then say you know what we deny we we we're not going to the spring we're not going to the spring you could do that but once you post that zoning change you cannot change those and

219you cannot really change them on town meeting floor unless there are minimal scribers you know down you know downgrading the numbers and so and that's why tonight's critical you do you move forward with what we have or do you postpone into the spring right can I ask a question um and um you know thank you um so I'm trying to understand um from say dear's point of view the difference between 15 and 10 units per acre and why is that so important um and I don't know if anyone here can explain that to me because I I'm not sure I'm not sure anyone's going to be able to explain that to you because obviously it's there's different building styles there's different building types it's how you do the parking it's so one thing so if

220I could just ask so they made an impassion plea to be including this zoning I guess I would like to hear from them what's the importance of this difference because it it seems to me that 10 units per acre is substantial housing and uh meets our purposes so I would with your Indulgence invite them to come up and just make that point like the 10 versus 15 because I I have to say that's uh that's important at least to my decision making here the difference between the MBTA Community bylaw is by right and the other way would be special permit that's not my is that true that's true that's if you go through the special permit it takes a long time to go through tradition for instance but I had 10 units per acre is

221not special permit right now in no this well then the difference would be we have about two acres 10 units per acre would put you at about 20 units 20 and the other would be about 30 it's at 15 per acre so what's what's wrong with that I think it's the special permit versus by right so it would be site plan review rather than special permit well I think to Rob's point for the Jaris right right now you can someone could build 10 units per acre so about 20 units understandably that's less than 30 units if we if we added this right now you could as I understand you could push a special permit and you could ask for many many more as you know what I mean but that's probably going to occur most

222most likely under a scenario where I sell the property to someone or have an agreement with someone and they will try uh get the permits after the sale okay so it doesn't benefit me at all all right unless I come to an agreement with a developer that says it's based on how many units you end up with which could push it down three four years down the line and for instance I don't know but home ra has been discussed tonight when was that originally applied for that's been three years in the making hasn't it no and I I don't know I don't think so it's been it's only been in front of the board this C I mean this year 2023 but there were significant delays on the part of the applicant not on the

223part of the board we are drafting the decision so so it's not we had some long periods of wait where we were waiting for the applicant well again the big difference is that this doesn't help the owners the property it helps the developer okay because the developer has Deep Pockets in a team of lawyers to push this to the end all right okay all right thank you D I think for me and um and I wasn't necessarily gonna thank you speaking about this we our our man we took our mandate right about what we were given and tried to approach it in the best way we can we've explain the parameters that we were working from and for me um one of those I think was to let the um let anything that that would

224change Ashland if possible because we eliminated other properties too that we were looking at we were looking at the kitty fenwall property easy to walk to all the schools right might be a great place for kids um but we eliminated that because we didn't and and please everyone jump in if you disagree but we did we kind went away from making a decision in our group that um that was a decision for the town to make about the feel of the town the look of the town the density of the town where do we want this in the town where do we want this we didn't want to make that decision as four four people and only two residents right we didn't we didn't think that was our job right so we were trying to

225come up with Solutions that would let that would get us into compliance zoning can change any time uh properties can be added into the zoning it's up to us we can change it next year and add more property into that zone if we want right once we have more of the answers but we were trying to get us into compliance now without without um making a decision even amongst the 10 of us what Ashlin looks like we were trying to let that for the people and and including so including other areas um you know making them by right didn't seem to be in that in that flavor to us yeah say in that vein in that vein yeah yeah so do we take a conservative approach yes we did are there still some risks that

226Marcelo and and Michael were talking about yeah there's still some risk cuz there's still some unknown stuff we're not saying that you know but that's that's where we were coming from and as much as I I I think I personally too do think it's a good spot for mixed you it's just you'd love to get off the train and you know and maybe you live there or there's businesses there it is good is it for me to make that decision no I would say no that's not my decision until a project is before me as the planning board and then I will judge the project on its merits but that's that that would be that was my stance on it I I'm not against it but I'm I don't think it's part of this I

227think the comprehensive plan process is this and we have a significant investment of that and that zoning can come in at any time we can we can change that add zoning anytime we want we can we can add other properties later into the MBTA Community zoning as we want that the the state would be thrilled right that we put more acres in there but that was where that was is where I keep Landing as much as I think personally it is a good place for some kind of mixed use I just don't know what that is yet and I don't want to just I'm hesitant to throw it in there without thinking about it thoroughly that's okay I meanone think that that's a good point if this goes through as as kind of proposed and

228set for May if people want Pleasant Street there's fall to add it and any other time but like that's unlikely that gets us I don't know that I thought that was sort of the agreement to get into compliance right and and that's what you guys have BR that was our goal yes I I I would say hearing it stated that way Trisha makes me think about this a little bit differently and whereas I hear what the Jaris are saying about trying to add that but the I the the reminder from you that as Brandy said we're in the process of a large comprehensive plan this would get us into compliance so we don't have to worry about some of that other stuff um we're hearing from a lot of the public that they don't want

229Pleasant Street added at this point but we do have the ability to look at that in the future should that be the right thing based on what we're hearing from the comprehensive the plan with and hold on let me finish with that statement I would say we move forward with what's been presented get it to Spring and if it doesn't pass at Spring as it's been said right if people say no we want that other area or there's concerns about a because of what Michael had said with the um with ugc then we can go back and look at it but at least we've potentially gotten us ourselves into compliance compliance Marcel I'm just going to mention Yolanda stole my thunder I think after listening to Trisha I um I I totally concur with that

230well the the only thing I'll add is um that I I do think um an opportunity to build housing is good I'm not sure I'd be as conservative as as you laid out but I am uh I think it was important to hear that there is an option to build housing there now whether we include it there or not um so that that kind of swings it for me so I will um you know at this point support this proposal as as stated potential carat that at some point in time down the road we could probably look at that piece of proping attitude to see how see how it plays out for years with respect to the changes that we made be in compliance with the zoning with the NBTA properties and see how that

231goes and if there are no issues and their passes and and we're good and the state gives their blessing um what would happen you know it's just interesting what would happen if they said we didn't do enough what what what would we do with that I think that's if they come back and say you know you folks didn't do enough because housing is already there we want that that doesn't I understand yeah you never know we'll have time to make changes if that happens if if if it gets rejected like any bylaw and I think this is what Kate's point is if it gets rejected you know strike one but guess what there's three you know obviously there's strike two would be well the second fight of the Apple will be in the fall yeah

232so just given the late hour like do you I we're I think so I'm I'm looking at Trisha so I think we had talked about the possibility of a vote to endorse this and um are we doing one vote for both committees or are we doing separate votes yeah I mean I think we need to know how to move forward because those are two very different as a subcommittee as a subcommittee yes right and that's we need a new directive what all right so I'm I'm asking procedurally if um um do we take one one vote of both committees together or should we do separately for the select board separ okay so I guess as chair of the select board I will look at my members and say are are is someone prepared to make

233a motion okay why don't you go ahead then sure I move that we support and approve moving forward of the recommended MBTA zoning option b that was presented um Mar can you confirm that option b is is that the is that what we're talking housing approach yes okay I will second that okay the motion has been made in seconded all those in favor in the select board say I I oppose none so the motion is carried then thank you for your work on the subcommittee and on behalf of the I guess for the planning board I'll make a motion to approve the proposed MBT zoning option b as presented and a second second and a roll call vote Ana Tes minitz I Mel I Catherine Jersey gu and Trisha Kendall I okay so we will

234uh move forward yeah so the next process for for for for us the planning board will be to take the bylaw amendments um I have to notify uh and send those to the newspaper for advertisement by the end of next week um and those and then the planning board will hold a public hearing on the first meeting in April obviously the this bylaw change will be submitted to the warrant through gen ball you know she she has it in there the board of San obviously will have to do the board of the select board will have to do your job and close the warrant and go through that procedural process the planning board will have two public hearings uh at the two meetings in April and then at some point at the most likely the

235second meeting in April we will vote to either support zing an article as drafted Andor uh to not support and then we will see you at town meeting all right thank you all do we have that one more agenda item that you wanted to cover quickly good thing you reminded me Michael comprehensive plan staring Precinct one person there here he comes yeah here he is you thought I'd fallen asleep on you yet no it was me yeah you were hiding from us no so um unfortunately we don't have a Precinct one candidate today um there is a gentleman that had interviewed before that was interested and I'd sent him some information he was going to review that and get back to us okay so procedurally do we really have to meet together to do this

236not that anything against you guys but can we vote separately we could probably vote separately yeah okay okay I just want to make a quick note before all the Plenty board and select board meet the select board members leave that we're never leaving we're going to be here that on April 18th right the comprehensive plan will be having and reviewing their existing conditions and all planning board and psych board members will be invited to that meeting can I just say one thing that's April vacation week it's I'm not going to be able to make it okay and what is this just because of the timing because it's not a it's not a standard planning board or a select board meeting it's our typical comprehensive it's a comprehensive plan meeting going to miss oh but but

237I I'm just saying like just to make sure everyone else is aware because there might be others that are but I might be missing it's going to be around it's typically a 7:00 but just and what is it what is it we're doing we're getting a report from our um consultant regarding existing conditions conditions oh so this is kind of an important presentation may be important for Michael and you and our co-chairs to say put something out to the full comp plan group and go this is April vacation how many people will be impacted because at our last meeting the the meeting that we had to have special to cover for February we were lucky we made Quorum so if this is vacation week we should look at potentially doing it the week before April

23811th planning board meeting planning board meeting the MBTA public hearing AIT I was going to say could we could we could we do it as part of the planning board meeting like do you guys I don't know what you guys have on your on your agenda is it a it's just a presentation right it's just a presentation by the potentially in April yeah potentially um I mean I don't know what goldson's I don't doing but that's a good point I was just going to say because it's just it's it's it's a little it's just that week is tough yeah why don't we look at that because do existing conditions as part of I that might be possible assuming it's a 9 hour 90 minute type of thing I wouldn't think you would expect the full

239planning board and select board to be there I just made a note that um I just made a note on my agenda the April 18th to go into further detail I'll be speaking on a line I of turn yeah okay be here though resing it is that have to Peter will let us know okay yeah I'll work with Michael obviously but I just want to make a note of that but sure we should probably put that on the agenda for the next comp plan meeting I agreed okay and I'm gonna and and I'll kind of hold a spot try to hold the spot for April 11th in case you need it okay okay all right okay anything else we should touch base just motion to adjourn the SL Board second all those in favor select

240board ad joury say I okay we Jour thank you all planning board don't go anywhere I know we're getting to our best time yeah this is this is when things get good oh my [Music] God yeah we're not inviting you to our meeting ever again I better get out of here you all right to drive okay the thing I my best time I think obviously we may uh thing one I think to skip ahead to seven I think I think we might need to look at another so we're not doing no we are I I just want to throw wen't we going to do the pre they said that there's no candidate yet if you jump ahead on the agenda thank you can we jump to reports and go to comprehensive plan because then I

241have some information that will change what you're going to say okay so can you give me an update on comprehensive plan so we um the steering committee uh got a little out of cycle meeting because it um and what you want to referred to there wasn't barely a quorum we met Corum yeah no we lost the oh I think I'm on am I on Amanda do you hear us okay um so we were not on target where we wanted to be to meet the public engagement goals so the steering committee voted to um extend the the public engagement period we're in which is survey public forum SL meting in box and crowd mapping till April 26th so that gives us okay more time thank you that that was a great jump in yay okay because

242I'm like damn we can't get to it again okay so then um going back uh to um Starbucks we just we want to give we don't have anyone from Starbucks here um but Peter and I have been talking about this a lot we've been trying to gather some information so all the stuff is a little informal it's not all document a but let let me tell you did did everyone get a chance to kind of look at the the offending view call it so it's in your binder and this is the only picture in the binder but um obviously everyone knows that there's electrical equipment posted on the side of the building and talking with the applicant Greg um Starbucks and Greg Salvador the owner of the building um has proposed to modify and to

243change the canvas of the mural to the front portion of the building yeah so as I reported kind of last time and I think other people have checked it out since then you come out of CVS and you look at that short end the building and there's a some electrical boxes and things that kind of in my mind I think severely impede on the mural on that side if you don't have it in front of you I don't know if you guys online have it in front of you grab I'm trying to grab it right now comp's trying to get up but it was basically a a wall and a gr and the wall is kind of set back from the street and then a door and then another little section of the wall so

244and the electrical stuff was put on the wall the the larger section of the wall so even really making it even smaller the usable area so um but in a few things to bring up here one is that frankly I didn't think that I didn't know the front of the building would be an option the side of the building only came up because really because um we wanted it to be something inherent with Ashland right and also because this that side of the building just wasn't meeting the standards of um of a three-sided building according to the ashin bylaws right so we came up with this idea of a mural or they did actually they proposed it to us I think and um and we all thought it was a good idea so now the

245electrical equipment is in the way um but we're being off offered the front of the building which could be much more visible coming down Union Street to see this where the side they it there are there is a junction box there there is plantings to hide the junction box that's always been a part of that part of the site part of the site plan thing number two um Peter has had a conversation with Stacy and the cult well yeah so talk to Stacy a couple times from the ash culture Council and I was in an email with her and the culture Council supports the change in the Miro to the front of the building obviously it's more obviously visible it's up front and so she in the culture Council there they're working they have a

246couple artists they're trying to work with uh but obviously for a location the cultural Council believes that this is a better location than that side of the building facing uh 126 so then as a third part of that that um Peter has been in touch with I know if it was the owner or the the um I've in touch with the owner here off and on um and so yes because my my other concern about that was like well what about our elevation it's still kind of a not a great elevation and this this Greenery that we're showing without a mural on it isn't really impressive so they seem they apparently they are open to again I don't have any documentation but they're they're open to relooking at those plantings not looking at removing the

247electrical box or anything like the things that are already hidden in there there's a big junction box in there but redoing some of the plantings to make that so that when you're coming out of CVS which is the primary view when you see this is just to make that just cover it up a little bit cover it up have better have better vegetation there you know and and so that's um in Starbucks according to Greg has their own screening obviously they're going to put screening on they have their brand they have their models they don't want to see they put this on the side of the building either and so I need to reach out and work with Greg and just to kind of get up get a better kind of feel of of what's

248being proposed uh but regarding the mural and the mural location in the canvas right now the discussion is to move the mural to the front of the building so I'm just trying to get some feedback on this to to me personally I'm kind of hesitantly saying seems like kind of a winwin I like the idea of a maybe a bit a mural in a more prominent location I like the idea of better Greenery maybe it wasn't what we started out as but might might be better but it's I mean I think we have to look Pro prospectively forward and the past is the past here we are it sounds like if the art the art folks who are working hard on this are comfortable with this for me it just seems like a logistical issue

249now because we had a decision we had a rendering now it's something different I would just want to figure out what's the way to formalize this is it like a letter from them that says hey this is what we're going to do and we kind of like agree to it like just kind of making it official in some way they're not here yeah um yeah I would say kind typically I always have this is you know minor I call this in my through my experience I would call this a minor modification yeah it's come in we say this it's a gender item I have a conversation about it it's a vote I create a little memo this is the change describe they need to I would think they we would need them to consent to

250it because it's sort of agreed upon with them correct so it would be like hey we've drafted this memo we get something in writing from them confirming and it's almost like we have to make findings that correct we understood that this happened it requires a modification we got input from the cultural folks who are working on it we approve it we've gotten their consent and we have to all sign it right to make it sort of official we're kind of modifying the decision there's no issue we can all sign it that's I think as long as we go through that formality I'm comfortable okay no I think it is a um what do you call an epas panel EPS just it is an the the the dark right yeah I don't think the dark can

251be painted on so I'm just curious like you said those electrical panels are visible at a distance irrespec of how far you drive towards that I wonder if this mural can be a corner element that returns towards that door do you mean it's a it's a door in the side with that awning that's there on this elevation can that be a mural that's not only on the on the front but something that returns and Corner element I I was thinking of that too that on the bottom it's a possibility that something turns the corner until they get to the electrical equipment yeah something that distracts you from all those elements but at the same time it's powerful enough because when you are driving down that Union Street you are seeing both those angles very very

252prominently so um looking at that square footage of what's just on the side you return that m kind of create an element that literally returns toward the door I don't know if you can come proud of the facade but there's an way of making that really be an element that will showcase not only their brand but also kind of create an interesting threedimensional uh mural I feel like I I would how flexible they are yeah well I would think May maybe it might also land in the like as an option for the artists yeah like you could do this or you could Round the Corner propose something to round the corner I I would assume but we hadn't talked I don't think Peter talked about that option but like I said I was very surprised

253when they offered the front I didn't realize that was an option I think it's an awes I think it's a pretty awesome option but um and I would also just note when I look when I analyze the building drawings I mean the building plans it looks like there's a screening wall that's coming that's somewhere inserted in that area as well and so I got to take I want to ask the question where is the screening wall what's going on and just kind of get a better understanding of it and I and I don't think we can go I think this is just meant to say yeah here it is here's here's your new canvas and I think that conversation is great but I think the next level and I'm happy to do that leading up

254to the next meeting I just want to kind of have a follow up with everybody tonight so any other comments from people on on line otherwise it's just it seems like a general okay with the path forward that we'll continue to pursue Amanda and Marcelo sounds okay everything that has been discussed is a plus okay agree all right great thank you I love the nice short answers too you guys are awesome okay um all right so that just leads us to uh any um updates um that and the minutes if we want to again I what why don't we take the minutes really quickly did people have a chance to look at them I mean they're very thorough I thought I I did look at them Trish just to answer your question and I'm sorry

255Marcel I did look at them and nothing jumped out of me something I'm trying to remember where I have them here okay I I thought it was great really detailed notes lately I I will say the formatting on page three on just seemed a little runon like there was not a lot of spaces on top of Page Three between paragraphs I don't know if that makes any sense to you guys but like line 75 through 96 uh like one paragraph ends and then like 96 yeah like line 77 probably needs spacing between 76 and 77 and oh just just in there just some between line 81 and 82 I just I just feel like it got a little squished yeah just the squishing needs to be UNS squished yeah I did have one thing [Music]

256um on line 108 um it says Mr mat noted that sewer capacity documentation has been received yeah and it makes it seem like every like so I I would just put some in front of that some sewer capacity document I'm not sure what we were looking at at the time but as we know we kept as we asked for more later um it'll at least just say that maybe there was more to come okay I going to stop my screen share and sorry 96 I think that's T building 76 oh Tel yep okay anything else anybody I'll make a motion to accept the February 8 2024 minutes as amended and a second second roll call vote and a test miniski I Katherine Jersey and Trisha Kendall I okay so those were good with that so

257we keep up with that um everything else is just updates anyone have uh important updates that that they don't want to wait important announcements I think we're good I am too nothing's important to me maybe right now legis of breakfast April 12th Kay and me I think are going to a planning conference in Worcester this Saturday Saturday yes we'll try to bring something fun back something planning related good luck with that I know Emma will be there Emma Emma will be giving a presentation we'll take a selfie I think I'm I think I'm going to that okay Emma and Emily ins who's our who who we working with so Emily and I uh have been working she's been kind of working on us with the zoning and stuff like that but great wealth of knowledge

258uh great person too you guys should come next year we should do a retreat there it's always tough Saturday um Marcelo and Amanda did you have anything you needed add tonight no all right so um I'll make a motion to adjourn at 10:58 p.m. a second second roll call vote an teski i i Catherine Jers guy Amanda haes I and Trisha Kendall I thank you everyone we haven't had a long one like this in a while good night thank you drive safe everybody