2023 10 19 School Board Meeting

001here. >> Mr. Key here, >> Mr. Coen, Mr. Written House >> here. Great. Uh, we're on the adoption of the agenda. Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion we adopt the agenda as presented. >> Do I have a second? >> A second. >> Any discussion? >> Miss Johnson, are you good? >> Okay. Uh all those in favor of adopting the agenda as presented, please say I. >> I. I heard four. Uh so four zero one absent. We're now on to our uh only round of public comments. So this is a time where we invite the public including those who are residents of Fana County. Uh our staff, have students in our building or have businessed in front of this board to come forth and speak for up to three minutes. We ask

002that you don't address any particular board members and that we treat one another with respect. Is there anyone who'd like to come forth and be heard hearing and seeing none I will close our public comments are reports. So um specifically we have budget closeout discussion and carryover request. Um if actually folks will indulge me for a moment before we get into reports. I believe Dr. you had something you wanted to address [snorts] that you sent via email. Did you want to discuss that today or did you want to leave that for either offline conversation and or um discussion next? >> I think I I would really defer to the board on whether or not you want to talk about that today. board members, is anybody inclined to have a brief discussion as it relates to

003um the uh committee to review books and libraries? >> I prefer district to budget today. >> Okay, great. Then we'll address that in the we'll discuss that in the November meeting and or um uh via email. Just make sure that you don't copy uh any more than one other board member when replying back. Does that constitute a digital meeting? >> I'm gonna make a comment about break that James uh you know referring break the committee uh to review the books. I I don't want this to fall by the wayside. I I did text that to you. You know um I see them in news and it is important. Um it's many people that these books are inappropriate for certain age groups and they need to be addressed. Thank you. That's all. >> Thanks for your

004comment. We are on to budget closeout discussion and carryover request. Miss Gillum >> really going to Dr. Gretz. >> Yeah. So in the last meeting, excuse me, in the last meeting the board voted to approve asking for carryover in the amount of uh $500,000 to cover the cost the estimated cost of bathroom renovations in Central Elementary. >> [clears throat] >> I wanted to bring up another item for you to consider and I I wasn't able to do this in the last meeting because I didn't have the information. Uh one of the things that we have been discussing with Mr. at all has been uh just how to position our planning and anticipating the impact of housing current and future housing on our facilities capacity enrollment. Um, one of the things that communities do that localities

005do, I've been a part of this in other localities is, uh, to hire a firm that will come in and do what's called a student, it's called a student potential analysis. And I can't give you the background on what the calculations are, but they have sever excuse me question. They have several variables that they use in a 10-year look back period to be able to bring you an estimate of what to expect in terms of um future growth in your schools. And so Mr. Doll and I have been talking about we we finally got an estimate back from one of these companies. usually costs between 25 and $30,000 to have it done. It really is something that would be very helpful if we had done it probably a little bit before. Now that the housing

006is is started, there's really a an acute need I believe and he and he believes I think he's right >> for us to have some idea of what to expect in terms of growth and growth and projections. So, I'd like the board to consider adding that as an item for the supervisors to consider funding out of turnback. It's uh it's a relatively small amount when you consider the whole amount, but um it's it's it's an appropriate place I think. It's something that benefits both the county and the schools. And again, I just I didn't have the information and literally was able to to get it in hand and talk with Mr. Doll the day after your last board. Otherwise, we would have done this. So, if you may have questions, Miss Gillum spent a long

007time talking with the firm. We might be able to answer questions about the specifics and the details. I would just ask for your feedback on that. And then the next step I think would be for for you to have a proposal in hand and for you to be able to consider that and pass it on to the supervisors. I do want you to understand that Mr. D is supportive of this as well. So uh one thing to think about is the timeline. So um the board of supervisors met yesterday. That is their third Wednesday of the month meeting. I don't believe that they'll I believe their next meeting will be the first week in November. We meet the second. They meet again on the third week of November. And the functional question is is is

008feedback on that by the third week in November too late for them to to fix andor um consider that carryover request or are we reasonably in the clear there? >> They ask us to have carrier requests for them by November 3rd. if we do something different than that, I have to ask from the stem. >> So that means that I can't wait till our next board meeting. So um my understanding and the premise and I've been privy to the conversations with the chair of the supervisors Moselle Buffer and Eric Doll as it relates to um student population and density in our schools. And and the functional question in all of this is how many kids are we going to have in the next three, five years? Like [clears throat] not to not not to be

009hyperbolic, but like I'm not confident we won't have trailers in some of the elementary schools soon just based on the new housing [clears throat] that has you know you know Pete's in a new neighborhood that that I guess we've already seen those kids come in but that's part of our increase in population in some places. Uh we got 400 homes. So my guess is that uh going in around Colonial Circle. So, my guess is that we'll have somewhere between 400 and 600 new students from there. And of course, the question about what grade level are they going to be in and all of that just depends on who moves in and how. But when you're talking about relatively um uh cheaper housing than other places to some extent in apartments and row houses, you're going

010to expect younger families in starter homes. And so my guess is that you're we're going to get some population there. But to have a professional tell us how many and and what grade levels are if they can estimate that are are pretty critically important in addition to just like understanding the census and whether or not we just have organic growth from existing residents. So, uh, given all the timeline, um, and even though I've advocated for the, um, uh, for the central bathroom renovation as as is appropriate based on our last vote, I'm inclined to, um, to have as much discussion as the board needs in order to, uh, be able to take an action today on this. >> Mr. Gratz, I have a question. Uh, do you know the average daily attendance as it stands

011right here? >> 3318. >> Well, that's three or 400 less than it was in 2012. Um, so that being the case, uh, we're still not up to where we were 11 years ago. Um, >> I think that's true. >> Three or four, five years from now, what will the enrollment be? Will people still be going to public schools or will they be going to private schools to get the education instead of social issues that they're getting in public schools? >> That's just a question I can answer. >> Yep. Okay, >> one of the issues have at middle and high school we have some we have additional capacity because the way their structure is their schedule is set up >> because you have teachers with 90-minute planning period. So you could have a class held in

012that classroom while that teacher's planning um which isn't ideal but you can do that both at the middle school and the high school. You don't have that same option at elementary. And so where the issue lies is the capacity of the elementary buildings is less than the capacity of the middle and high school. Um and that's kind of where the concern is. And and you're right, we don't have the enrollment that we had before, but we also had a ton of trailers then too. And my guess is we would have where we would have to have trailers would be at Central and Caris Brook because we just don't have the capacity there for much growth. But it all depends on where you know the ages of the kids that come in and how many kids

013come. [clears throat] I guess do we have a preliminary cost? How much a study might go through? It >> it depends on the size of the project, but typically they're run 25 to 30,000. >> And what was the estimate that you got from the vendor um when you got that email back? >> 25 to 30. >> That's what I'm these typically these are helpful on a couple different fronts. One is when you're trying to when you when you're reaching the point that you think you might need to build a new school and these can help you see not only how much growth but where the growth is to try to figure out where do we want to put those schools. I think that's less of our conversation and more about just how many kids to

014expect in the future and at what ages. I think since it's a direct result of actions of the board of supervisors, it makes perfect sense to ask for the money to pay for this information. >> And I think planning for the future is also key. >> Yeah, I'll note that a lot of I'm not advocating for or against growth like functionally believe in smart growth, but that's not this board's job. Um, a lot of some of those divisions are by right and so some of that's just about um how the land is ultimately labeled. Um, and whether or not it should have been, you know, A1 versus R1 versus A4 is is not for this board either. U, but knowing how being able to predict how many students are going to be in the buildings

015and how we might need to shift grades because we're really locked in in the elementary levels. there's just no no flex. So, I'm inclined to ask them to fund it so that we have our eyes open as we um see increasing numbers in the elementary levels. Um, given that's the case, um, and because we can make motions as as necessary, I'm going to make the motion that we, um, in addition to asking the board of supervisors for $500,000 to offset the cost of this, uh, Car's Brook Elementary B or Central Elementary bathrooms, um, which is already on the CIP that we additionally ask the board of supervisors to consider dedicating $30,000 of carryover funds to fund um a population study to predict student enrollment uh in the future. >> Is there a second? >> Second.

016>> Any further discussion? >> I just ask the point of clarification, >> please. >> So your your projected carryover balance is 518. So, are you suggesting that the population study be funded at a rate of 30,000 and the remaining funds be allocated to that? >> I'm fine with that um friendly amendment that that [clears throat] we can only that uh we fund the 30,000 and then the remainder out of the and then the remainder to the central elementary. Um, ultimately I feel both of these things need to happen and um, I'm sure the county will figure out the right ways to to fund them. But yes is the answer. So uh, we're returning what? 518ish. >> Yes. So, so [snorts] the amendment uh assuming that my second will um agree is for us to ask

017them to fund the $30,000 uh for the population study and the remainder of the carryover balance to go to Central Elementary. >> I agree. >> All right. All those in favor, please say I. >> I. All those opposed? >> No. >> Uh so we have amended the carryover study. um of the carryover request. I'll I'll personally note that not having that information doesn't make us um any more prepared for what ultimately happens. Um so we're on to budget closeout. Uh oh no, we just did carry over. So I think we're on to fiscal year 24. So, I just put in your packet the um the salary study that we did for 20 um when we did when we built the 24 budget. I will tell you that um that I what I'm hoping to get

018today is some direction in terms of what you'd like to do for salary for uh the coming year because that is the biggest part of our budget. Um the one of the issues that we're definitely seeing that I think we'll have to factor in as we build 25 is the cost of substitute teachers. We are um last month we spent $60,000 in sub costs that included bus drivers but also um classroom subs. Um >> how does that compare to historical data? >> I'd have to go back and look how it is compared [clears throat] with the previous um October. Um subs are a month behind. So October payroll pays September subs. Um, so I'd have to go back and look at all of that, but our payroll right now was running the October payroll was

019running close to $3.6 million and last year we were running payrolls around 32. So the the payrolls are quite a bit higher this year. Um there's not a a um difference in staffing. We actually have 288 teachers right now with seven vacancies. um we had 295 last year. So, it's like we've saved the exact same number of staff. It's just the difference in the compensation package that's kind of driving that. And the and you know, we've talked before about um it's just a different world now in terms of people take their leave. They they take their sick days. Um we have people that take [clears throat] without pay. >> Yeah. It's it's a lot of it a big change. which does it with leave without pays you you're not paying the teacher you're pay or

020the employee but you're paying the sub so it's kind of an offset but when um you know when they have leave and they're using it then you're paying them and the sub so it's a little bit different >> how many teachers do we have now I'm sorry >> 288 >> thank you >> 288 with seven vacancies and some of those vacancies I don't think that we'll be able to fill Um, we've tried to be creative in a couple of situations. Um, and may look at some midyear hires for things. Um, but I just don't know that we'll be able to fill them. Um, so and we have vacancies now teachers instructional assistance was also um an area where we're seeing turnover. I don't know if you want to um just start looking at the one

021of the things I do want to say about 24. Sorry, I'm a little bit um for 24. We did get the C tool. I um analyzed that yesterday. It's looking like we are getting the $1.1 million uh for the all-in, but if you exclude that from the template, it's $50,000 shorter than it was in the governor's budget. Um and that is using that 3330 um enrollment number, which right now we're running about 3318. Um so it will the state allocation will end up being impacted by that enrollment should it not pick up and I wouldn't think that it would change much um in terms of increasing enrollment um during that period of time. Um the and it's not like it's coming from one place. If I lay the two templates next to each other it's

022a little bit from here and a little bit from there. So it's just a kind of a shifting of funds. Um but obviously with the all-in money we do have 1.1 million out of those funds. >> Gotcha. So when will we need to So assuming this template is actually what we're ultimately going to get from the state. When do we need to ask for um an adjustment to our budget with the county? >> Well, that's actually already gone to the county. Um, we did a supplemental for the allin and we've also done supplementals for the non. >> Okay. Just making sure that we're all tied up that everything is like actually. >> Yes. >> So, this is our final final number. >> Yes. Well, it Yes. That this is the number that we're um that

023we're budgeted off of. They will make an adjustment to the final calculation based on enrollment. >> Yeah. And they won't do that until after we do our March 31 count. >> Um, which I always get I used to have a super former superintendent February would ask me what the March 31 count is and I feel like I could tell you on March 31. [laughter] [clears throat] So it but what we typically don't see is a lot of pickup in enrollment from here forward. We'll have some transition in in January, but we'll also have transition out. So, I don't anticipate that you're going to see much change in enrollment. >> I mean, I guess it depends how effective our um truency and and attendance staff can be. And >> yeah, and that is the other issue

024is is if you if you have dropouts, those impact enrollment. I do know that we have quite a few students that are um asking to graduate in in December. Um which is we Dr. Gretz and I talking about it yesterday. It's really been more of a factor of co where we we've seen those those requests increase. >> In the past we would have maybe two or three and I think we have about 20 right now. >> Wow. >> So it's it's a difference and we do try to counsel those students about taking advantage of that um the free education that they have available to them through dual enrollment classes and career and teched classes and those things. Um but you know for various reasons um students decide that they would like to go ahead and

025leave in January. >> Do we have a uh given the number do we hold any sort of ceremony at the half year or do they march in the spring? >> Yeah they march in the spring. We we do come back for graduation too. So what you know obviously we got this 1.1 million and and we've miss led us through some of the thinking as it relates to how to dedicate funds and obviously we got some work to do on the curriculum um as it relates to literacy. What um what do you all need from us in order to start acting as it relates to attendance? you know, there's what is it u 10 or 20% dedicated to focus on attendance. Uh do we anticipate um advertising for positions in the near term? >> I believe

026there have been positions posted and then we are going to discuss trying to get our intent forms out a little earlier this year so that we can be ahead of the curve for going into next year. And um do we have are we going to model our procedures or policies or the way that we ultimately use the staff on something like um Louisa or other divisions? Like how do we effectively use this to get back some of the students who are not in our buildings and not getting education elsewhere? So we we'll draw information from programs like the one we saw in Louisa, but we we didn't get anywhere near enough money to replicate what's going on in Louis. There's spending $340,000 just on the staffing alone without the the Saturday program. >> So >>

027with ourund about 110,000 >> so we can take elements of that. What we've decided to do is to pursue people >> job it will be to make the phone calls make the home visit and really try to strengthen relationship with those families and get those kids into school. In some cases maybe driving to the home to pick them up. We're already doing that. We don't have a lot of staff to do it. Certainly don't have full time to keep them dedicated with the amount of money uh $110,000. Pretty sure about 100. Yeah. That's about four instructional assistant le positions. >> And uh how long is that funding for? These are positions that are going to be >> through fiscal 26. >> Okay. So I got a couple years I believe. >> Yes. >> Mr. Gretz

028I have a comment about that, you know, break this Saturday. Um trying to get kids to school. If you can't get them during the week, how you going to get them on the weekend? >> We won't be able to because we can't afford Saturday school. Yeah, >> that would be a question for Louis who's doing that. Not sure how they wish we could tackle that problem, but we we won't be able to afford it. >> All righty. Um, what else as it relates to 24? [clears throat] >> I can't think of anything else unless you have questions or issues you'd like to discuss. >> We wanted to remind you with the salary study of where we were last year. And I I I won't, unless you'd like me to, I won't belabor the entire history

029of it. We started with a a a large number of divisions. The board asked us to call that down to five including blue. And so we did our our study and were able to classify rankings for each of our positions in the fiscal year. If you go down to one of the tabs, so when you're looking at this, >> you make that wider >> this one is um >> this is admin assistance. >> And you'll remember that what we were trying to we capped everybody at 13%. So there was nothing more than 13% except for on the teacher scale because we had some of the steps that were higher and what we were trying to do there. So there are some teachers that got more than 13%. But um when you look at these um

030you know so when we did the cap that didn't necessarily bring those people up to three out of five or even the midpoint in some cases even with the cap they're below they're still below us. And so I guess one of my questions for the board is do you want me to go back and figure out with new scales where these people are at that time and do do we want to continue to make adjustments to those? So where we're going to have issues is admin assistance. I believe um if you could page through a little bit, Mr. Gford. Um like this one is the bus drivers. they weren't um the lowest, but certainly we could continue to look at that. Um, but when you get to some of the other like custodians there, the

03112-month custodians and one thing I'll point out is that we moved all I think we have actually I think we have noticed no 10 months anymore maybe one >> believe I believe there's one >> because we gave them the option if they didn't want to go to 12 month but almost all of them ended up going 12 month and then I think we had a resignation or two that then result so they're all 12 month now except for maybe that one. Um, but that those salaries are still very low even though those people have received I think they got a 7% the previous year and they got a cap of the 13 this past year. Um, >> can you remind me what is the do we have a state projected average employee increase? Is it

032part of the last year? Is it is it a new number? There'll be a new bianium u bash based on the jark study that was just done is recommending is that one of their legislative priorities and 8% over the bianium. Now whether that language will be four and four as it has been sometimes in the past or two and six or any combination of those I thought it was five this skill but I I >> yeah so >> you thought it was five over or five for the next year? five for the next year is what we kind of heard. But then when we saw something in writing it was it was the 8% which I would probably run a four and four scenario with that. Um >> so yeah so what I'm seeing here

033in the totality of this is you know a handful of um low-wage um job functions. So, administrative assistants, bus drivers, custodians, and IAS. Uh, teachers are here as well, although they're less um they're less they're they're not quite as behind as as other job functions. And then we have our APS, uh, directors, supervisors, EAS, directors. Um, so I guess I guess just about everything's here. Um I do think that we should be looking at you know assuming we're going to do eight over the banum we should be looking at four and then see what it would cost to um move a particular a couple of job functions to to seven as targeted >> is my best guess >> to seven for the year as a targeted way to try to keep fixing um long-term inequities

034that we can't do all at once. like our our numbers are atrocious for um our principles for instance and it's going to keep us from being able to hire talented staff and and keep the ones we have. >> And the other thing to keep in mind, I know you're aware of this, but when when we did our study, we used all the existing data. Nobody had finished a budget, including us. So, it it'll be important, I think, for us to be able to see what people actually did with their salaries last year versus what we did and see how we stack up. Again, >> I don't know that any we know that there are some divisions across the state that are doing mid-year raises because of um they thought it was going to be certain

035percent, they ballparked on that and then they then it ended up being higher. Um so, but I don't think any of these divisions are ones that are doing mid years. I think they did their compensation. Do you know? >> Uh I I think you're right, but I can't say I know about Charlottesville. I know the others are, but I'm I'm sure they are. >> But >> so anyway, we'll that we'll have to bear that in mind, too. But we'll go ahead and start gathering um scales again. The other thing um that I know um we talked about yesterday that we're going to have to revisit is the stipens for um our activities um that um you know staff continue to have concerns relative to that. Um, and I think what our plan is at this

036point is that we pull together um, people that participate in those to be part of a a committee that might make recommendations relative to site. >> And just an added, what we'd like to do is to bring you a structure that has several scales for the coaching and extracurricular positions. each one of those derivative of a of the beginning teacher salary scale. So for example, scale A might be 4% of the first step which might be please don't hold me these numbers $1,500 and and build 10 to 12 of those. And then the the next the next step would be to figure out what of our coaching which coaching positions go where and then how many assistant coaches or how many coaches I should say for each program or sponsors for each program we should

037fund and we need to involve the people in those programs the teachers and the coaches and the sponsors to help us model that the skill that I just in isolation decide how many coaches should be a part of the academic team like that and then bringing that and you can see the cost of migrating our people to that structure and then we can go from there. So yes, an to to both of those. I'd like to if we have the capacity and the staff time to ultimately update where we are versus other divisions by job functions so that we can ultimately and I'd say I'd calculate um what it'll cost to do a 4% which we think is the state state minimum average and if we can calculate by job function for all job functions

038like what would it cost to do seven and then we can kind of swap in and swap out based on our prioritization of which job function two, I definitely want to see a complete like a new paradigm and or proposal as it relates to stipens and the like functional cost of that. And I'm inclined to give Dr. Gretz the longest leash possible to have those conversations and figure out what he thinks is an equitable solution. And then I'd also like to see something that is sustainable where I think stipens should functionally be attached to the uh increasing um teacher salaries. So like percentage wise so that we don't get in a position where they don't move again for 10 years. >> One of the things that I think is an issue with our current stipen

039plan is that it makes no difference I'll use volleyball as an example. If you're the first year volleyball coach or the 10th year, if it's your 10th year coaching volleyball, you get paid the same amount of money. And so there's no um for longevity. There's no um incentive to that or incentive. >> But the other thing that um right now the coaches can decide we have this pot of money and I can divide it up against four people or six people and and the coach makes that decision with the athletic director. Um, with this particular model, when we're talking about doing it in this way, it would I think we would have to dictate this is how many coaches we can fund for this sport because those assistants would also be on that same percentage.

040>> Um, so it's just a lot of moving parts. >> It really is. It's a lot of and and it you always want to try to build something like this when you're making a transition. if you think it makes sense to migrate people to it in a way that they either get an increase or at least stay the same. You don't want people to get a decrease in the in the new one. And it's just with all these moving parts and with that dynamic she just mentioned. >> Yeah. Isn't that inevitable? Like if if a coach right now, if we ultimately find that that a sport uh should have two coaches and right now the the head coach is dividing it up into six and everybody's getting, you know, a couple hundred dollars or something

041ultimately a handful of coaches if they continue to volunteer, we'll go from a couple hundred dollars to zero based on that. >> That's one possibility. The other is that if I and the good thing about what we do is it gives coaches a lot of autonomy >> and and they can leverage relationships. If if I coach volleyball and I've got a brother-in-law who wants to help me and he's willing to just do it for free, then I've got that much more money to hire. Yeah. The problem with it is people on the outside looking at that that don't have any of that information view that as inequity. They don't know that that dynamic is at work with those coaches. They don't realize that they get the same amount of money and can spend it how

042they want to. They just see that this sport has six coaches and they make $500 a piece and this co this sport has eight. And and the assumption is we as a division are discriminating against the one that only has six or discriminating against the one who has their brother-in-law coaching for three and doesn't realize that. says they're not even paying their cashes. So, I think that's one thing that we have to correct. And when you do correct that, two things are going to happen. If this division, if we decide, we bring you a recommendation that you agree with it and it's based on our comparative analysis that a school size should have should support this many head coaches and this many assistant coaches for say JB basketball. our current model because it has so

043much flexibility may or may not be in point of it and so if we say we're going to support X number and they got more than that then that means some of them are not going to be coaches next year >> or would be volunteer coaches assuming that we allow them to continue to volunteer and have a lot of title without pay >> potent and I'm I'm giving you I'm giving you what could be the problems I mean I think there are a lot of great things that could too. >> One being what the skill says is that, you know, if I've been coaching, if I've been doing the one I play or whatever it is for 15 years, I should probably be compensated more than somebody doing it for their first year. That makes

044sense. And it's predictable and I think it's it's much more clear right now. It's not clear. It's uh if I move to Savannah and I want to help coach a sport, I really don't have any idea how many head coaches you play or what you pay them. Uh it it's it's very much subjective. It's up to whoever is the head coach. We know how much money we give that head coach. You approve that. But then so I think it's much more clear and it's much it gives us the ability to be much more transparent. We put that that schedule together and it's clear how many we're funding. It's clear what they're being paid and we put that public facing on the web and anybody can see it at any time. Uh so I think it

045is positive but there are a lot of moving parts and there are a lot of potentially difficult discussions to have with people. It's change. Now, ironically, I do want to remind you if that's what we go with, it is changed going back to what Flubana had before the uh some budget reduction. >> Do you think it' be an improvement and it would be returning to what it had, but it will be different? I think it'll be improvement. All right. Um, do you have any unique perspective on this, Andre, given your experience coaching? No, I think it's a good idea to have a a scale and try to know far as you're trying to recruit and retain talented coaches to know, you know, what the market is and how much you can make because I'm a

046I volunteer coach and one um positive volunteering is that you get a chance to coach and you kind of get in line when they vacancy come about. So I think a lot of coaches that volunteer, they don't really do it for the money. They do it for the experience and to sure and you know get an opportunity to become you know a full-time coach. >> Okay. So, I appreciate like genuinely like um I think hearing from coaches and those who ultimately like are affected by this is really important and that's why I support um having you be able to socialize and have open conversations about it. And I hope that staff and coaches and community members as we talk about this realize that like Dr. forgets will be getting feedback and that um nothing becomes

047policy until this board ultimately votes for it. So these are these are important and earnest conversations that have to happen in order for us to be informed. And so um if staff members, coaches, others feel like um something that's being proposed or talked about it isn't fair or equitable, I hope that you'll feel comfortable voicing it uh to Scott and and to Dr. regrets and um if you want to talk to a board member about it, all of our emails and phone numbers are available on the website. And so I think the best thing that we can do is one assume best intents and then two keep the communication open. So you want me to run a scenario with 4% and a scenario with 7% and update the salary study information and I will continue

048to use these counties because before we did >> a larger >> I think this is the right competitive set for me. >> Um and I recognize both Mr. Fairchild's point as it relates to other divisions. I still fundamentally believe this is our functional competitive set. Um, yeah, and for clarification at least, and we haven't heard from other board members yet, per se, but running it as four, assuming that's going to be our like state minimum, uh, updating the numbers and then seeing what 7% would do by comparison for each of the job functions. That's not saying that, um, right now we have a couple job functions. I'm not going to name names that I don't think that need as much correction or any correction by comparison because I think that we've done a good job

049in fixing them. But it would be nice at least for me to be able to see this is what it's going to cost for four and that's our like base level and this is the additional cost if we want to increase a four to a 7% and we can um divide by three or something. if we wanted to know what 1% would be and then we can play with the do we want to prioritize particular functions if so which and can move it kind of in and out in a flexible way. >> Uh other board members have thoughts andor um I want to make sure that whatever we provide as guidance is ultimately um a consensus among the board. [clears throat] >> I'm in favor of that as a starting point. Uh >> yeah, I

050think that's a good starting point like we did last year just to see where we at the sal me also four versus seven good comparison to start with. >> Okay, >> thank you. >> So that does um staff salaries and the assumptions that looks at we've also talked about stipens. [snorts and clears throat] >> I think that I've got some information here >> basically the starting point that where we went last year. So we've kind of um they've updated for people this is always a year behind. So this is 22 and you know when I do that projection when I do that projection I just take your total budget and divide it by the number of students. Obviously, you don't spend your title budget or if uh there are some expenses that aren't all that

051aren't applied to for people. Um but that's my projection for where we would be. Um but we that 23 number is our real number from um from our annual school report. So that our number for 23 is is what our number is in terms of um the peral expenditure. And then the state average for I have it down there at the bottom. Sorry, that's why I don't like not being able to drive. Um [clears throat] the state average for for 22 was 15,541. >> And then I reran, you can go to the next slide. I reran the per pupil expenditures for 22 um looking again at those um different pots of money and and the per pupil expenditures. I will let you know that we dropped a spot in 22. Um I think Madison was

052um behind us before and now they're ahead of us, but I think a large portion of that when I look at that is because they got a lot of federal money. Um, and so that's kind of why they moved up on that on that graph beyond us. And I do think it's interesting when you look at that the um the amount of federal money that we received compared with some of our neighbors >> and that's based on need. >> A lot of it's based on need. Yeah. And it sensus and need. I mean, some of those divisions are larger than us, but um certainly um and we know that we're running around 40% pre-ro somewhere in >> Yeah. 39 as a division or something. >> So, I mean, but what that tells me is is

053other divisions are running at that rate or higher as well. Um we were told that the state is not going to make a mid-year adjustment on the on the free reduced lunch um the C program and so it hopefully they're going to do that next year which was the indication that we got. So that will help in terms of um the school lunch debt that we've been responsible for the last couple years, >> right? >> Which is climbing. >> Yes. >> Incrementally, right? And for clarification for folks at home, all of this functionally means there is a good chance that every student in Fana County will have access to free breakfast and lunch next school year. All of that just pending state review and all of that. But um >> yes, as long as those

054targets aren't moved, which you know always concerns me when I look at something like this and I see that other school divisions are obviously seeing a a greater need. Um then it does concern me. Are they then going to change what the playing field looks like? And I I don't know that. >> No, >> I was a little bit surprised that the state didn't do something in the middle of the year. >> I am also shocked that they um would decide it's too difficult to do in the middle of the year and take the easy way out instead of putting students first. >> And then this is the enrollment numbers that we talked about earlier. Um right I had projected 3330 we are running about 3318 right now. Um and last year we ended up

055running over the projection but anytime you run over the projection you are given the funds based on the actual number not projection. Um so really I just use that as a budgeting tool. And we've already talked a little bit about this, but just to refresh, um, in in 23 we did the 5% um, for most of the positions or the higher of the two on the step and then we did a 7% um, for IAS, nurses, custodians, and administrative assistants. And we had a 15% increase for bus drivers. I will say, you know, we're pretty much fully staffed on bus drivers, whereas our neighbors are not. And I I do think it's because of this and the fact that we provide benefits to our drivers. >> And also I've been hearing a lot of positive

056feedback from the activity bus drivers about you know $20 an hour that they appreciate that >> and we'd be remiss not to mention the fact that we have um remarkable staff in the transportation department and that Miss Marsh sets a bar and a culture that um makes people want to stay. Uh money is great, uh culture is great, but when the two work together, that's ultimately what we get. >> And this this is fiscal 23. So this is not what we're living now, what we did from last year. >> And then we combined the two scales together. So we have one teacher scale now. And then we held staff harmless on health insurance and we absorbed the premium increase in our budget. And then for 24 we did the salary study that we did the

057comparison data. Um all staff got a minimum of a step or 7% whichever was higher of the two. A 13% cap um on salary increases except for teachers and that was due to the scale and trying to get the scale aligned with our neighbors. And then this is a breakdown of what those average increases were um for each of those scales. Um, one of the things that I am going to recommend at this point is um, we did a a couple of years ago we did a specialty ban for school psyches and speech pathologists. When we made adjustments to the teacher scale, it actually benefited the speech pathologist to be on the teacher scale and not on that band. Um, so it we gave them the benefit of the doubt and put them on the

058teacher scale, but my recommendation would be that we eliminate that ban and leave them on the teacher scale because it was not the intent to undercompensate them. Um, and we do have, I think, three people in those positions right now, three or four >> that are on the teacher scale now. So we have a ban that's not being employed. >> Yes. And and we don't have any school sites on staff right now. So, we're not using that either. >> That's fundamentally its own problem. >> Well, we're we're doing that through a contract with an outside agency and I think people are fairly pleased with how that's going. I don't obviously we'd rather have people face to face, but it seems to be working what we're doing right now. That is the population of of people

059that [clears throat] can work virtually and they choose to do that. So that's one of the other barriers that we have. Um we did hold staff harmless on health insurance and we absorbed the increase. And I want to talk a little bit about health insurance. Um so we um put out an RFP um last week. It's not in there. Um, we put out an RFP last week and um, we did we originally had a due date of next Friday and we got a couple of calls from a couple of vendors asking if we could extend it to November 2nd. So, we're going to do that because we were I talked to our um, consultant this morning. He was concerned that if we didn't do that that we might not get all the bids that we

060want >> um because he had a couple of big names that contacted him. So, we are going to move it to November 2nd. He's assured me that we'll have information for your November 8th meeting um so that we can at least have a preliminary discussion about that. And then my plan is that we would bring you in for individual conferences or or groups of two to talk with the consultant and look at all of the proposals in greater detail because we do have to make a decision by December um at your December meeting because we're under contract. If we don't do anything in December, we would continue with Jefferson Health. If we make want to make a change, we have to notify them by the end of December that we're making a change. Um, and

061just a little bit related to that, which has gotten to be kind of a complicated story. Um, Dr. Gretz and I had some real concerns relative to BPA, who are the the TPA or the plan administrators for the program. Jefferson Health is the one that manages the um basically they manage the funds, they solicit the rate, they determine what the rates are, they solicit the reinsurance, um all of those pieces. And under this pro under the program with Jefferson Health, we are able to get um they use all of their um all of the groups that they provide insurance to to get that reinsurance quote, which has really helped us because we don't have any lasers. We have the 125 max and that's it. And we don't have any lasers. And so >> can you

062just make sure everybody listening knows what you mean by laser? >> Laser would be if you had a high cost claimment one year and they knew that that person was like like say it's a cancer person and they're more likely to have treatment the following year or some kind of recurrence then they the insurance company can apply a laser to that and say that you have to pay that person's claim. at a rate of 300,000 instead of 125. And we in the first years of doing the self- insurance model, we had some of those and those were pretty big issues for us. Um, so we don't have those anymore. We do have the 125, but I will tell you, I think we had somewhere between eight and 10 people that hit the 125. Um, and

063if any of you have been to the doctor, had surgery, you know, that's not real hard to do these days. Um, so it is good that we have that part in place and that's really because of the large group that Jefferson Health manages. They are out of Ohio and they manage a large group. BPA is the one that processes the claims and so they're the ones that um you your doctor's office submits a claim. They make the payment for the claim. They get the funds from Jefferson Health to pay it, but they're the ones that are processing the claims. We had some concerns relative to how that was being done. Um, some issues had come up kind of periodically throughout the last few years and so we made a determination that we were not going

064to continue with BPA. Um, unbeknownst to us, the day after we sent the letter, we were notified that BPA has merged with Wellnet out of Philadelphia. And so Wellnet's going to be taking over BPA. We've had a lot of conversations with Jefferson Health over the last couple of weeks. They have told me that we can select whatever TPA we want. We don't have to have Wellnet. We can do anybody that we want to. Um that's totally up to us. And so it could be any provider, any TPA that we could still run our self- insurance through them. I do have a meeting with them tomorrow. Um I think they want to talk to me relative to my um feelings on some of the TPA pieces to that. Um, I do think it and your consultant

065agrees that it benefits us to continue to be self-insured because we do have we retain those funds if we have a good year. We're not um we're not in a position where we might get a giant rate increase one year and then the next year go down. and this kind of back and forth um I call it car salesman stuff that used to happen um with um previous providers where they would come in, you know, this time a year and go, "Well, you're probably going to have a 20% increase." And then they'd come back and go, "Well, we can cut it to 15 and oh, we'll cut you a deal and we'll make it 10." I hate stuff like that. Like, I just need to know like how much is it? And when you're self-insured,

066it's totally based on what your claims are. Your premiums are determined by your claims and you need to have enough money in your claim bucket to cover your claims. And if you do, if you have more, then you keep that money. If you have less, then you have to fund it at a greater level the next year. So, I do think that that and I'm told that over time, you can save up to 15% just doing that a self- insurance model. I think the issues are who's providing that for us and are are those is that program um able to meet our needs and that's was our concern at the time. Did I summarize that? >> I think that's [laughter] you you you technically have a decision about whether or not you want to stay

067self-funded. We both candidly hope that that's not an issue. It it is I think when you begin I wasn't here when you began that but I I think there's a little bit of a gambling there. Yeah. It's a little bit like being at a high deductible half of California, >> but because of the decision, frankly, because Miss Gillan has a lot of acumen in this and you guys have made great decisions over the past few years to be in a very healthy spot to be self-funded. So, I think that but that is technically a decision board can make. The other is, you know, which insurance provider do you want? We have a bid out of solicitation out and if you remember we went through this years was it last year or two years ago? >>

068Two years ago. >> So two years ago we went out to bid and the the dynamic that we're all seeing. I have lived this in other divisions. So, I'll just say first person I have seen and my neighbors have seen is that it's a very uh the sharks are in the water with the insurance companies. It's very competitive. They're very aggressive and if they can grab your business the first year, they will. They know I I'm not vilifying them, but they do know it is a real burden on your employees to switch insurance companies. the burden of learning the new the new benefits, the burden of getting the new pharmacy cards and all that. I mean, it it it's very hard on employees and I think insurance companies sometimes might leverage that to give you

069a low bid and and then you you do that migration and you go through all those those burn payments and then the next year based on your claims you get a double digit increase and it's not sustainable. And a lot of divisions jump into that water hoping for something better and they get in this endless cycle of flipping that switch every two to three years and their employees are miserable. The benefits are never makes sense. So I think that's something I'm saying all that because we believed that the local choice would potentially do that. Now they they really didn't. They gave you a bid that was like barely under uh BPA as I recall and they but what we asked them for was uh essentially simplified some kind of guarantee that there wouldn't be any

070more than this much increase over the next three years and they would not give us that which was very telling I think. So, >> I think they were the ones that when I looked at the proposal and the premiums they were projecting, they had literally taken our rate sheet, like say our rate was $468. It was $468. And I was like, you didn't do any homework on this. You just copied and pasted it over so that I would say, oh, it's the same. That just that kind of stuff just makes me really question what they're doing. And I don't know that it was them. It would have been another company to be fair. But >> and the local choice was designed in my experience that was designed to take out the roller coaster that people

071were experiencing with United and places like that. But that's all changed. The year I came to Caroline County, which is right next to Middle Sex, local choice gave them a 26% increase. School budgets can't absorb 26%. You you have you're going to have to race. You're going to have to, you know, visit that on your woods. So, I think as we go through this process, it makes sense because we did have grave concerns with some of the accounting that was happening with PPA, but um the administrative work, but I think as you get these bids, it's not as simple as just let's go fishing and see advice that we really need to make sure we don't get into that site. This is my opinion. We need to make sure we don't get into that cycle

072to take care take care of employees. >> And one of the questions I get sometimes from employees is if we switch is am I going to have an issue with a pre-existing condition? That doesn't exist anymore. That's not that was taken care of at the healthcare act. So that is a concern I get sometimes particularly with people with pretty significant health concerns. That's not something that we're concerned about. Um, so we will, you know, our consultant, one of the the nice things is that he has worked across the straight state for many years and, you know, he can tell us like, you know, who who does a good job of this? Who do you not have problems with? Um, and and that can be helpful, too. Um, any questions about that or comments or feedback

073from you all of that whole process? Uh, I'm just remarkably appreciative for the fact that we have such experts managing this. [laughter] Um, I'll bring it up. Um, I'll probably beg for a five minute break after we get through the discussion on on health insurance just so we can reset uh and so I can use the restroom. But you know, one of the things I'm going to bring it up later is look, uh, just how much work is being done and how much knowledge is institutionalized in two of our executive directors and the fact that like you're you're doing like three full-time jobs, including running a health system for us. And like I I hope that you hit a hundred years and you retire when you're happy, but like if you get hit by a

074bus tomorrow, we're screwed. I like to think I'll hit the lottery and not get >> great the thought. >> I you know what I'm gonna choose optimism. That sounds fabulous. And so the the sentiment is we can't live without you and you're doing too many jobs in some ways. And so one of the things that this board, whether it's, you know, this literal board or whatever happens in January, needs to determine is like like I I suspect that we need at least one more executive director and to shift some stuff and to make sure that um knowledge is not lost as as people make decisions for themselves and and or are happen to win the lottery. Um, and so that's one of the things we're going to need to think about budget-wise is um, just

075like making sure that we've got a a deep bench and enough leaders for all of the roles because I've never seen executives um, like you and Don have so much on their plates and to wear so many hats. So, it's both a thank you and a this is a symptom of like unsustainability. >> Yeah, I agree. I had that on my list. Oh, thank God. >> To go rogal. [laughter] >> Absolutely. Uh, what else on health insurance? Uh, Miss Johnson, Mr. Key, Mr. Ress, >> I'm glad you're moving away from BPA. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, Miss Gillum. Relying on you, your experience. >> I know more about health insurance than I want to, but my goal is to know less. I I'm pretty sure you could retire and then go get a job running

076a health system or an insurance uh either for school division or a larger institution and like make way more money than you do here. >> Oh well, thank you. I'll [laughter] >> read that does suck your new cards and >> right your prescriptions and your deduct because it never [clears throat] really works out in your favor. And that is the other good thing I'll advocate for self-insurance. So when you're self-insured, you decide like we're going to do uh like the best life points that we do. Like we decide how we want to do that, how many points, how we apply that, and we tell the provider this is what we're doing. Um we make some decisions in ter we made a decision a couple of years ago where people were going in for wellness checks

077and some of the blood work was covered and other blood work wasn't covered. And so we made a determination, no, if you're in for a well check. We want multiple blood covered. We have that flexibility when we're self-insured. When you're not self-insured, somebody else is making those decisions for you. And you're [clears throat] not able to just call them up and go, I don't agree with this. They go, well, this is how we do it. Um, and so those are some of the things that you're kind of constrained with when that happens. >> So our plan is on the 8th. What's the date, Sam? our our next meeting is >> the next meeting is when we have >> we'll have some um preliminary information and then >> present it to >> I do think it

078makes sense to meet with you in smaller groups to go over more details answer any specific questions you might have with Mr. so that we can um so that when you come in in December, you feel comfortable making a decision. >> And is it a December date? What what's Oh, December 31 is when we need to notify so we have enough time to take action at the um December board meeting. >> Yes. But you do have to >> Yeah. >> Doing nothing means we will continue to do exactly what we're doing. >> We continue with Jefferson Health. We are not under no obligation with the TPA. We can change the TPA. >> Got it. And my understanding is we could potentially change the TPA in January, which we may consider doing. >> Gotcha. Um, anything

079else on health? I'm not sure why that does that. It's 10:13 a.m. though. Um, any other questions as it relates to health insurance? Uh, would the board mind a fivem minute recess? That's mine. Uh then we are journed for five minutes. back in session. So we've um just to recap, we've given some direction as it relates to salary so we have a better understanding of both comparisons and then also some options so that we can look at which job functions, if any, we'd like to prioritize increasing above whatever the state minimum is. We've talked about um uh coach stipens and given some direction to uh Dr. regrets to go ahead and shop and and talk to parties involved so we can come up with an equitable and fair system that is also sustainable and predictable

080over time and also rewards uh tenure uh to the extent possible. Three, we've just talked about health insurance. Um we are out to bid. We will hear in the November meeting but ultimately need to decide direction in the December. And so there'll be some offline no more than two board members at a time to discuss that. Uh uh for all of the new hotness, we also discussed the fact that we have two executive directors doing the job of at least three if not five. And so some discussion around uh just acknowledging that and I'm sure we'll we'll talk about that um shortly. Um the floor is still yours, Miss Gillum, if you want to continue. But I mean, I don't know if if we were technically in 24 or 25, but all of this is

081part and parcel. So, >> right. Um, so I just a lot of these charts I redid for you to update them and and this is our experience chart as it stands right now. One thing I'll note is that it did appear to me that um that we didn't see a lot of movement out. there are people that um when I looked from like year 24 to year 25 it was the same number of people and so I think at least at that top end of the scale you're not seeing people leave as much so definitely um some change is some some good news there um we did we have gotten some feedback about the top of the scale when you're 35 plus and I'll take another look at that when we do salary study. I

082do know that some of the divisions we were comparing to capped at 30 um and not 35, but I will go back and just analyze that so that we have so we know what we're looking at. And then I have the number that's just teachers that are there, anybody that's on that teacher scale. >> Yeah. and all acknowledge just in case they are listening that there's been a number of prominent community members who have spoken to me about the the top end of the scale and like heard we're discussing it now we will continue to consider that >> well and I think one of the thing you know there are people that got larger percent increases but one of the things when we're looking at it last year was that the top the top of

083our scale was not really out of compared to some of the other parts of the scale. But we'll look at it again and bring that information to you. >> One of the things that divisions kind of vary on is what to do when somebody gets to the top of the scale. Give everybody a step increase. There is no step. So some people have a cost of living or some people base it on whatever the social security cost of living was or whatever it was. But I just want to throw this out there and um it's just something to think about and I don't know that we did this but some divisions have in the past thought about how to design a scale to strategically incentivize people who've been in for a long time to retire

084and make room for new teachers to come in. And one of the ways some divisions have done that is uh to cap their scale. I'm not sure that we and again I I don't think I don't know where the FLA did that. I have no idea why our scale is where it is. But I'm just not sure that in the current economy and the current market with teachers that we are almost in a position to think opposite of that and right to incentivize longer tenure to stay Yeah, it's we are fortunate the a lot of the vacancies that we have um you know in various areas where we're able to to to come up with alternate plans, but I mean I know there's neighboring school divisions that have like 25 math vacancies. I mean I

085I don't know what we do with that. >> Yeah. So there's the the vacancies in general and competitiveness the competitiveness of the market but there is there is something you know I want to be careful I say this because it the dynamic is certainly true when I started in 1991 as a first year teacher I was not I didn't have the skills and the the chops if you will that I had been teaching for 10 years and that's definitely true because of the shortage There's the state has tried to reduce some barriers and it's in some cases it's it's still very difficult but in many cases a lot easier the routes to lure have been adjusted and I I think that's all fine but the reality is when you're brand new you have a lot

086to learn when you're brand new and you did not come up to a traditional teacher training program, you have more to learn and teaching is harder now for a variety of reasons. And so I think all school divisions and are are seeing that dynamic play out in the classroom and in academic achievement rates and all that stuff. I'm over central all that. I'm not suggesting that people that are new or people that are career switchers are not great assets and wonderful teachers, but we'd be naive to say that somebody's brand new to this just walk in and do it the way somebody's been doing it for 30 years. And I think it it really behooves us to think about how we want that to look for those veterans that I'm not talking about somebody who's

087been doing it for eight years and says, "I want to make $2,000 more dollars a year. I'm talking about somebody who could retire and chooses to hang in for a couple more years. Why would they do that? And how how does this set up? >> Well, the the virtual environment is is competitive as well. I mean, we have people that say like, well, I can go teach online and I can stay home and you know that that and make as much or more money. And you know, we always used to hear when I was coming through, you know, oh, it's a global competitive job market. It really is now. Um, so it's it's different than it used to. But people really also thrive on face to face. I know I do. I prefer face to

088face in the beginning looking at [clears throat] a screen. But um >> what do we think that the um longest tenure we've had for a teacher since teachers are the ones that are on this scale? >> We have one at 48 right now. >> We literally have one at 48 right now. >> Wow. >> They're going 49. [laughter] >> We had somebody from a neighborhood division come in and do some work with us in our admin retreat. He was at 54. Um, so what I'd like to see is, as long as other board members are inclined, I'd like to see as we work on proposals for scales, I'd like to see it extended to to 50. Um, because one >> Yeah. >> Well, I you know, I don't know. I I think that [clears throat]

089those things should be done based on and like we can negotiate obviously the the lot of us as to like does it need to go to 40 45 if we have we have people now that are at 48 49 and we expect so we've got both inflation and life expectancy and other things like we're we want to set ourselves and future boards up for success and for long-term thinking and you right now if you go from if you go from you know 35 to 36 years what would they have gotten last year that the average percentage >> I think they got this >> they would have got >> I have to go back and look [clears throat] but I think I think has traditionally chosen to give whatever percent yeah increase to everybody to the

090people at the top >> yeah not every division does that some give a cost of living of 1.3 or something >> right and so I don't want to see us do less than that because I do want to retain um talent. I want folks who have been teaching for a long time. The the folks who are hitting those kinds of numbers and I I don't know the exact status, nor do I should we identify them who's got 48 years, but uh but um that should be celebrated. There's a reason those individuals are still with us. Teaching is an absolute calling. You wouldn't do it otherwise. And I think that um that our scale should be representative of that. we don't need to like break the bank, but if we saw these lines extend another some

091odd years as I'm I'm looking at the graph in the other document, but so I'd like to see maybe a proposal or the administration's best thoughts as to like how far we should extend it and what the um and what the right slope is. My my thought is as we continue to strive to eliminate NS and move more towards the line, then you know those last couple years should be a continuation thereof. Um, and we should fundamentally expect teachers to as everyone is living longer and spending more time in the workforce to to do the same and we should be prepared for that. >> I think that consideration is once we do that, you know, that this as we look at this right here, one thing to note that I'm seeing in the data is

092that we lost a decent amount of people between 23 and 25. I mean, we went from 17 people down to like seven or so or 23. Maybe that's apples to apples, but we lost a lot of people between year 23 and 24. There was spikes in the teens where we're losing people as well. So, we're losing people mid mid-career and to some late career because that bar on 23 is 17 and the bar on 24 is five. that that's 12 people that left our division. Um, which with >> I'm looking at this one. Look at that big green bar. Oh, wait. That's I need to compare [clears throat] the um the blue to the green. That's on me. >> Yeah, >> that is on me. >> I was just like, holy wow. Um, >> good.

093That remedies that consideration. Um but seeing uh so we'll also want to know what it'll cost. If we're going to reimplement scales above 35 years then there may be some people who need to be moved up in which case that will be there will be cost associated >> and apologies for misreading a graphic that is um atypical of me. >> I know you love the chart. >> I do. [laughter] Uh I get I get excited by the spike. you know that's where your eyes are going to go. [laughter] >> So we already talked about the I had the 5% in here but we now clarified that to eight over the bianium. So I have that number that I'm running and then I have always have a slide of unknowns and um we don't know if

094they're going to do additional revisions to the SAQ. Um so that's always something that we're just kind of um pending with. Um, I can use a placeholder of 10%, but honestly, it I should have a pretty good idea of what that um increase would be for health insurance. I'll just be honest with you. I don't just looking at health care costs, I don't see any way that health insurance goes down regardless of what vendor we use. I mean, if you've been to the doctor and you've seen the what they charge versus what gets paid under the contract, I don't see those numbers going down. Um, but maybe things will be different. I don't know. Um, obviously hopefully we get a state budget sooner than September in this benium. That would be helpful. Um we're still

095we're you know enrollment is definitely going to be something that is going to be a factor. We saw um a big spike in kindergarten this year. Um those kids will go to first grade and then what does the new kindergarten look like? it's really going to be an unknown for us and we probably aren't really going to know that until the summer to be honest because we had you know we were watching it all summer but it just kind of kept ticking up ticking up all throughout the summer. Um we'll certainly encourage people to enroll um early so that we can get a better idea of what that number is. >> Um the English lang language learner population continues to grow. Um we are uh we've grown to the point where we used to be

096part of a consortium for um title three funds from the federal government and now we're on our own because we have big enough population for that. Um but that may mean that we need an increase of English language learner teachers. Um so still continuing to look at that. um the ESER funding, a lot of that will be gone um next year, but with the all-in funding, we're hoping to to bandaid that so that we can get through for another year or two with those positions that we added under Esther. Um and then what I don't have here that you alluded to earlier is um I would really advocate for the board and and of course with Dr. regrets to talk about what the structure of admin looks like at the schoolboard office. Um I do

097feel like, you know, having been here 25 years, we we developed a process where a position was um a position and the responsibilities were really based on the person's skill set. And so in some cases there are people doing these duties that not necessarily a new person can walk in to do. Um so what does that look like? What would the ideal be? Um and kind of planning that out. I don't know if you want to say anything else about talked many of you just individually about that. I I think we have to look comprehensively at the future but also at at the how we can best be structured to support some key areas. I've talked to you about personnel being one of them, instruction being another. So I I don't have anything concrete to

098bring you. I mean I I think it's a I think it's really important. I also think it's it's a big item. Yeah, I I think one thing that could be helpful on this is um it would be interesting for you to provide what like the tree might the top end of a tree and a reporting structure looks like for divisions of similar size. Like how do they do it? And that way we get a sense for what what structures exist, what are the strengths and weaknesses comparatively and like how many how [clears throat] many executive director versus director level versus coordinators um basically coordinators up like how is that structured elsewhere and then what are our comparative deficits so I I think if we can do this let's let's set the stage by figuring out

099what some surrounding divisions do and then what are the areas that we think need to be alleviated and or shifted again um you know I hate to talk about people when they're in the room but uh or out in the case with Don in the moment, but like these two executive directors are doing work of of many folks and I know they have support staff and I'm remarkably thankful for it, but it is wildly unsustainable in in my opinion. >> Are there other board members who would be interested to see what the leadership structure looks like in other divisions so we can have the discussion? It doesn't mean it has to be a priority per se. >> We can certainly hear the information. it'd be uh very informative, you know, for everyone and just like

100you said, just because we hear it doesn't mean we have to implement it. >> Miss Johnson, any thought? >> Um, my main concern is is always people who interact with our students over people who interact with those who interact with our students. >> Yeah, I uh I respect and acknowledge it. you and I have talked about it over the uh our four years together. Um and I I think that there is some push and and pull that the more support we provide uh the more or the less maybe that the teachers have to focus on. But I also acknowledge your concern. Uh Mr. King, >> yeah, I think it's important to look at the overall comprehensive structure of everything. Talk about stipens. I think it's important to talk about administration as well. We want to

101make sure the school division can run smoothly as and like you said in case somebody administration leave, you know, it's going to be hard for that person to come in and and pick up a piece. [clears throat] >> All right. Um and I'd like to maybe encourage and I don't think we need board direction on this, but um I'd like to encourage Dr. regrets to um uh make some recommendations after looking at the structures as to what you think um what you think is a a musto, what you think is a as a we're going to need this in a couple of years versus a nice to have. So functionally tiering what you think is like this is the best thing for the division in uh long term and this is what I think we

102can deal with in order to to get by. We always have to as directors or um administrators or any of that do more with less. But um I think if we have a sense of this is triage and or this is treating symptoms and this is treating disease, I think that's a useful lens to think through. >> Certainly. Um, >> are there any things that aren't on on my radar that need to be developed? >> The one thing I'll mention is we do have a budget priority survey out the community right now. We've gotten I think about 110 responses which is better than last year at this time. It's only been three days. I think you know we do have thousands parents and teachers. So, I hope they'll weigh in and we'll bring you some

103of that information as well. >> Interested in what we can do to uh equalize planning times. [clears throat] >> Um, well, let's let's talk about it. I mean, I'm going to have a handful of issues, both new and things that we didn't get last year, but this is important. So what are some what are some things we can do to like what are the alternatives as it relates to equalizing planning time? I assume you mean between the elementary and upper >> level expect answers today. Okay. We put it out there lots of times and thought about it lots of times and I don't want us to give up because I think it's important. >> So I'm happy to add a second to that in order to um encourage some thought from the administration if there

104are ways that we can um Can you talk about that as a a part of our consideration how the budget can support that? >> Uh is there a third member who would just encourage the administration to take time to think through that um even just as a courtesy to uh Miss Johnson? >> Yeah, that is >> lovely. So well uh that's um on my notes here as um items to follow up on as we continue to talk through the budget. Um, so I have a couple of things both that are new and things that we didn't fund last year to talk about. And you know, this is uh this is day number one in our budget journey together. And so like there's a lot of things we're going to talk through and and think about

105and then the list is going to get narrower and narrower as we go. uh but scoping broad. My first question is and I don't mean to identify individuals and staff but it's a one it's a one job one person function but you know we last year hired a mental health coordinator. Uh, I've heard nothing but amazing things about Miss Harlo Burner. And so my functional question is whether or not we have a sense from her and her experiences as to whether there are budgetary needs in order to um support um her charter and uh help our students on that function. Um I was remiss in not either emailing directly or asking Dr. regrets to to email to figure out how those things are going and what additional resources we might need. But a um an

106absolute top priority for me is if there are things that we need in order to help our students as it relates to mental and behavioral health, I'm going to put that above just about everything else. And so to the extent that we can get some um professional insight from the people that we have in the building, that would be remarkably useful for me. that we we have discussed that a little bit just uh what kind of budget we might put together even just with regards to supplies. So happy to have that conversation. Another thing that we've been talking about is to put it on your radar. >> Two years ago we revitalized the partnership with >> KE the career and tech center out the world. And I believe when we did that, we all had

107the we all had the anticipation that we would start it and it would grow. And it is growing. But the dynamic as it's growing is that uh the way our schedule at the high school and the schedule at Ktech lines up where certain classes are taught in the morning, certain in the afternoon. They can't really they don't have the staff to mix those up. you're we are going to end up with students who in order to complete a program they began and essentially what we're saying to students is we we have this partnership with KEK if you want to take let's say electricity or fire safety or whatever it is we're going to offer this to you and we're going to transport you and so you go for the first year and the second year

108because of the way those schedules line up there might be seven kids total. Only one of them is doing electricity. And because some kids start driving the next year, some don't. What I'm saying is you could you end up with the need to transport one child for one class. And that's uh that's just something we're discussing. I I think I'm not suggesting we should stop conversation. you need to support that with financial aids and it's a it's a significant investment for one child and I think as it grows you'll have less of that and and I'm probably describing what might be I don't know if it's an anomaly but it's probably not the norm but again when you have just a handful of kids in general as it's growing the second year one started the

109first year when they take the second year building trades or whatever it is. They two of them are driving. The one that can't drive needs right and it's we can't really say to them at least we are not right now saying to them we're going to transport you for the first year but if there's not enough kids for the second year you're on your own and if you can't get a ride then you just can't finish. Um could you loop back whether it's November, December, can you provide us a um kind of review of how many students are participating in KEK what programs they are um engaging in if um we have sufficient demand for some programs and not others like do we try to do any of this inhouse to eliminate some of those

110considerations like I don't think that we're at scale in any of that yet but until we see from you guys how many we we have doing time we just won't know. >> Sure. And the the other issue just to remind everybody, the whole reason we did that was and we try very hard to make sure that we're not enrolling kids in things that we offer at the high school. There were, I think, three programs that we just don't have access to. the auto body, the uh fire safety. I don't think it's called fire safety, but the >> firefighter program and the uh electricity >> well [clears throat] building trades of which electricity is part. >> Yeah, I think they have a separate electrical program being the building. >> That's right. So that in and of

111itself because we're saying we want to use our our our programs on site and offer students the ability to take these isolated classes we don't you're going to have a lower enrollment at so >> and they admit our students based on where they have space and so it's um I'd have to go back and pull data to determine what kids ask for that maybe they didn't that too. >> Yeah. I think if we have a sense for, you know, the working with T-ch works for for these things and this is a program that we're getting up against like demand and maybe it should be insourced instead of outsourced. Not that I want to like damage any relationship with K. We just want it to work where um if we have enough students for a class,

112maybe we think about what the capital investment is to make it happen. And Louisa is building a brand new career and technical school, a pretty huge one. So there'll be opportunities for us to talk with them. They they've already allowed us to send them to the program that they have cyber security. Yeah, it's a virtual program to enroll. So lots of options. This just won't put on your radar. Um, another item I had is testing coordinator for at the elementary level. You've heard me talk about this before, but um, we have some lovely steam labs and some amazing instructional technologists. And to the extent that we can find ways to shift responsibility and either hire a testing coordinator or find ways to do it without having those labs go dormant during testing times, like there

113is nothing worse. Well, there's plenty plenty of things worse, but it is it is problematic if we have demand for young students who want to start learning steam things and that there are curricula that our ITRTs could be implementing in those labs, but because of kind of dual hats and um the way testing schedules work for them not to be able to implement those. And if lifting or separating or severing the testing component from that role and responsibility means that we get more robust curriculum and or the labs are open more. I would be in favor of making whatever investment we need to I mean within reason to to make that happen. Um and you know this isn't uh this is just observation. This isn't staff leaning on anyone in any particular way. This is

114like we have great steam labs. I hate seeing them empty. Like that makes no sense to me. And so to the extent that it's practical to to get more students in instead of you know I think at some point I heard that they get five or six visits within a I don't know if it's a half year, but it it it's not enough when these things are the building blocks to um things like engineering and other programs. And you know, we talk a lot about um career and technical education and about having skills at graduation, but it doesn't start in eighth grade, eighth or ninth grade. It starts at the elementary level. And if we expect our students to be able to compete, um we need to make sure that our investments early are in

115alignment with that. So, I'd like to know what it would cost to to take that responsibility off the ITRTS and allow them to support students and um and teachers more directly. >> There were um a handful of items that were on our list last year. So, I went back to the little grid from from last year. This was in the I think it was in the um board docs for the day that we um adopted the budget for anybody who wants to look through that. It's the items in white towards the bottom. But the things that I saw that I believe were not funded last year and that we should at least talk about whether or not they're relevant and whether or not we want to um consider them where um we had some consideration

116around bus aids. I don't know if the demand or need still exists for for bus aids per se. Uh obviously it didn't get three uh at least three people who wanted to to move it forward um last time. Uh so I don't have any new information or perspective on this. In fact, this is one that I just don't know enough. So um I think um I think Mr. Key, you might have been a proponent of it last year. I don't know if you're still a proponent. Yeah, it's always important that you know with the behavior issues with you know certain buses that have identified strong bus aids because I know it's a hard job being a bus driver with I don't even know how many kids I don't even know how many uh people can

117fit on buses and I know some buses have 40 60 kids. I think it's important to provide some additional um staff if needed because how many bus aids do we currently have? >> We only have bus aids on special buses. >> They float. I think we have at least one >> perhaps, but typically they're on buses where kids have mobility impairments and and they need assistance getting up and on the bus. >> So, we currently don't have any support. if we have a bus that needs additional support. I thought we had one that floated, but we may not. >> So, to the extent that um we can get information andor um uh be communicating with Miss Marshian team as to to true need and to talk about that in the broader context of our budget.

118That would be lovely. Uh dean of students was on the list last year. So, um, we talk a lot about behavior, which is just one component of what administrators do in the high school, but I'll note that we have, uh, how many APs in the high school is it? Three. >> Yes. >> So, >> three APs and a CTE coordinator. >> Three. So, three APs and a CTE coordinator. And, uh, we got five grades. And traditionally or at least what I I saw coming up and what I've seen in other divisions is that there's generally an administrator per grade level. It seems as though we're a little light by comparison to others. So I don't know to what extent there is demand or interest in having further discussion about what a dean of students slashadditional

119um administrator might look like for the high school. is that's a recurring theme in the current survey responses and it was in last year's as well here. So, I think that's something that should at least be um on our laundry list uh not an unranked list of conversations both in terms of um you know, I think at some point as we look through the survey and then obviously you're doing block parties and talking to staff if we can kind of get a sense for like organic demand, high, medium, low, and then the associated cost that'll help us kind of figure out what is urgent and not too expensive to um invest in, what is, you know, medium weight and expensive to invest in. I think that's that's part of the calculus here is both um

120urgency and expense. Um we had a coordinated a coordinator for I think it was um a gifted program as well as social sciences and there was something else on it. science probably >> was it was it science and so that was something that was um on the list last year did not make final cuts did not make it to the budget so um if we can get a sense for how how in demand that role is again if it if it's a low demand then like I can't imagine it it even being part of a second discussion thereafter but uh that was one um one that's important to me is um reading math specialists and coordinators. We got some obviously we'll be figuring out um and Miss Suarez and and others will uh be figuring

121out what's what can be funded by allin what um ultimately how to use those what does a tutor look like etc. But um I think the board and even myself can use some education on uh what our coordinator and age structure look like as it relates to reading and math specialists so that we can make informed decisions about if we have enough [clears throat] um enough specialists and aids and so I'm using specialist coordinators and aids. Those may or may not even be the right like terminology, but to the extent that like you could explain it to me like I'm a 5-year-old that would probably help um get perspective and also um you know as we are looking at testing and gaps and all of those things. I certainly saw um last meeting some real

122need as it relates to small group andor individualized attention. And so the fundamental question is do we have what we need in the building to do that? And if not, can we make it work either through um budget priorities andor through all-in funding? >> I'll have to add >> that we're looking at so many positions that are not classroom positions. We also look at classroom ratios. >> [clears throat] >> I think it is uh perfectly reasonable to look at the um student toteer ratios um at our grade levels and how it compares to surrounding divisions. So to the extent that it is practicable to gather that um >> or rather than surrounding divisions, what's recommended by instructional specialists? >> I mean I think we've uh we we rarely adhere to any of the um right

123ratios as it relates to any staff people. I mean a a school counselor is supposed to be 250 to1. I can promise we don't have that many in the building. uh psychologists have their own norms. So um I it is a useful data point. I will just admit that um we uh fall far short of um industry standards on a lot of positions not just teachers but um super interesting to look at. Um and I know that we made er investments to keep some of the K2 grades low and I know that through attrition and other means that um we won't our but our existing recurring budget aotment will not allow for that to be indefinite and so we'll need to make decisions as to what what gets dep prioritized or deprecated versus what ends

124up in a new recurring budget line. I imagine you're also interested or Mr. in house would also be interested in teacher ratios. >> Yeah. Um it would be great, you know, to lower the teacher ratios, but I don't think it's sustainable. Not um not in blue county. Um but I would be interested in looking at it. >> Yeah, I think it's important the teacher ratio, you know, kind of make sure we ratio that's sustainable for good teacher outcomes. Awesome. Uh, and we talked about um institutional knowledge in the executive director roles and um extending scales 35 plus. So I think that we've extended my laundry list that I jotted down when I sat at the [clears throat] table and looked through previous budgets. Um, what else board members would you like to look at or

125talk about in subsequent budget sessions? I can't think of anything else right now. James, you covered a lot. Um, very needed stuff. Um, Miss Johnson, anything additional on here? >> Anything more than I've already? >> No, but of course. Um, Mr. Key, anything for the moment? We we scope broad and and narrow like every other board does. I know this might be more comprehensive than than is normal come our our first budget session, but we did a lot of work last year to identify real needs. And so um we start with a crib sheet that is uh our laundry list from last year and just reassess. Um, I'm sure there will be things that come up as we um as we think through this. Uh, if you if any board member has additional items that

126they want homework on or want to invest staff time into to make sure that we um we bring it forward, then uh feel free to email me or the administration like directly. I just want to make sure that if if you got something that's important to you that um we at least give it air time and figure out what it would cost to do and if you uh as we look through the the survey for budget priorities hopefully um that'll help inform uh Dr. G it appears you're looking at open ends or verbatims as you as this thing fields. Is there something that we didn't talk about that seems to be popping up trendwise? See, I can't say that at this point. You haven't been able to analyze all the >> the responses. Many of

127them have multiple comments. >> Yeah. >> Um when do we expect >> what when do we expect that to when do we expect you to pull the data and share verbatims that are um anonymized? >> Well, we'll have it for you in November. >> In November. Okay. And so if there are staff out there watching live or um uh you know in the future here, uh if you have particular needs or want the board to be aware of things or uh need something to be heard, please please put it in. Um and so, you know, I'm committed to reading every single verbatim that is provided to me. I'm sure other board members will do the same. And so to the extent that we >> It's 11:06 a.m. to the I don't even know why it

128does that, but to the extent that there um are things that we're just unaware of or you want visibility too, um please put them in and complete it so that we have a we have a sense of um of what you all need in the buildings. >> You do have a public hearing at your board meeting who goes to >> Yep. Uh and also um uh in case anybody didn't hear it, we also have a public hearing as it relates to the budget in November. And so we'll have opportunities for um members of the public, staff, residents, etc. to to be heard then as well. >> So just a couple other things. Anytime we have a new bienium, that means a new LCI and a new VRS rate. And it will probably be some time

129before we know what those two things look like. And then also the other thing I'll have to keep an eye on is fuel cost. We have a very favorable um fuel contract right now, but obviously when you go to pumps you can see that it's gone up in the last couple months. So certainly something to keep in mind there. [clears throat] >> Sorry. Can because I'm an idiot and I processed and then lost short-term memory. Um the new bianom is associated with what what additional variables was it? >> Local um deposit index >> Virginia retirement rates >> and VRS. Yeah, I wrote VRS and then lost LCI. I think it was the acronym in my >> we know even when they you know tweak it up or down a couple of pennies it makes a

130big difference >> and we will not have either of those things. >> Yeah. We talk a lot about um sales tax and other things. Any changes related to that um of of note of late? >> I know that shifted. >> We've definitely um the state has seen just you know a great escalation in sales tax and the budget is still very healthy. Um it's hard to say how they're going to allocate funds. I do wish, you know, as always, that when they gave us funds, it wasn't so prescriptive and what you had to spend them on and the percentages and all that because I do feel like it's not a onesizefits all scenario. I definitely agree with that, but that's something we haven't talked about. Often times those prescriptions are coming from people that have

131never been. Um, but Virginia does have a very helpful survival movement. >> Do we [clears throat] um, and of course I waited until Miss Valentine left the room, but do we have do we have reason to believe that we're going to see significant increasing costs as it relates to um, uh, special education and and meeting our maintenance of effort and those things. Just part and parcel. we don't have an issue with maintenance of effort because >> because costs are increasing so we don't need to make up >> yeah to um and I will say just looking at the the population of students that are in early childhood special ed we're going to see an increase in special ed students and also the needs of those students seems to be increasing >> that that probably I

132mean I didn't bring this up because I don't have anything concrete to tell you, but I that definitely that trend is definitely there. an increase in referrals to the CH child program and we can't anticipate that that's likely to result in an increase in eligibility but that also could potentially have an impact on Abrams Academy and the way it's staffed in the way we are using Abrams Academy both for like very traditional alternative setting education and also as a a place for students who are being disciplined to continue their education. A lot more of those too and younger ages. >> And there is a um there's obviously a there well there's a prep meeting next Wednesday I think in the morning. Um I forget the I think it's Wednesday which I will attend. But is

133there uh I'm I think I was traveling for work the last time they met. Do we have a sense of like what additional services prep might be able to offer that might offset some of um our existing needs? >> Prep is in uh prep is in a we say weird but an ambiguous place with that because they're losing a facility >> and so they're considering a bunch of other facilities. Um, one of those would allow them to expand services for like day treatment. >> Sorry, I wasn't prepared. >> No, I know. I just uh >> any services [clears throat] >> for certain students that all the divisions that are participating would desperately want to capitalize on >> things like autism. Is that what you're talking about? >> It's not autism. They're serving that. This would

134be for uh right here. >> Yeah. This is on me for waiting for Miss Valentine to leave to do this. >> The more u the more difficult situations to manage in the traditional school setting with regards to behavior and uh that's the best I can do. >> Nope, I think that's perfect. So we have another meeting next week. >> Places don't serve the that population. So like places like that. So the ability to do that would be huge. But the places there like four that they're looking at are are at a high range in terms of price. >> And so the price depends on division's ability to potentially increase what they're paying per se. And then depending on where the location is, if it goes, for example, if it goes someplace close to Pepper, Nelson

135may say it doesn't make sense for us anymore to be a part of that. It's too long of the drive. Well, then all that tuition goes away. Potentially somebody else could come in. I I'm just saying there. >> Yeah, >> it's hard to answer, but they're we're in the middle of that. We're actually superintendent on that board or on that advisory committee are going to visit a facility in Mel that is one of the potential locations sometime in the next few days, I think. >> Got it. Okay. Well, um >> but the punch line is Dr. Kelly, I do think that >> could be that we're looking at a potential increase in >> the cost of a seat to continue to be a part. I just can't give you that. >> Okay. Well, I'm going

136to plug back in on prep just meaning that um it's fallen on days where I'm traveling for work, which just means that I have information loss because I'm not at the table having the conversations. Um, I also know that our leadership is has to turn over because they have chair um limits. I think it's two years and I believe that our chair is is up against a term limit and so there'll be leadership changes on that board as well. But um I'm going to work hard to um get caught up myself in and then make sure that I am part of the um part of the process especially if um I continue to serve Paulmyra for another four years. So I want to make sure that if uh that we have um informed and ample

137um leadership and voice on prep for today. I believe this is the last item on our like that that this largely completes the the mission of today which is to take broad scope at at what budget priorities might look like. Um what what did we miss on your end or on our end? >> All right. [clears throat] So, I guess then we're just on to school board member comments. >> No further comments. >> I'm I'm going weigh in on the bathroom uh stuff at Central for a minute. Uh four bathrooms being replaced. Correct. The older ones. >> That's what's proposed right now >> at $125,000 a piece. >> 80 to 90 was what we got from RMN. >> $500. 500,000 was allowed for it. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I I went to those bathrooms uh

138when I was in seventh grade and >> yeah, they they're probably still in the same exact shape that they were then, but yeah, they need to be replaced. Um >> I think in in all the 500,000 that was in the CIP, I don't know how concrete that figure is. >> Yeah. The 80 to 90 that I had anecdotally on my phone was from an architect that came out and did a review. >> That sounds more realistic to me. >> You can take to the bank. Yeah. But I I'm saying that because it it could be that certainly the project you know better than anybody. If they get in there and there's plumbing problems for something that could totally change the figure, but it is likely it could be less than 500 if that's not the

139case. You agree with that? Yeah, it would it would be less. I'm pretty sure I know people in Charlottesville [clears throat] that could do that. They've done it for my father's company before over at Alba Mall and Charlottesville. Um, LA Lacy, but if you need price, I'm sure they'd be glad to do it. >> Yeah. Uh, I want to just thank the board of supervisors um for their historical support of the schools uh especially last year's landmark budget and the way that we've invested in our students. Um I understand that you know that was a considerable amount uh to provide last year. I think that the board is starting with due diligence and making sure that we understand what's what's urgent, what's needed long term, what what we can do without. And so, um, you

140know, I I take the early part of the budget season as seriously is, uh, as we get into the we hours because, um, the end product is only as good as your starting place. And so, I hope that the public will come out and, uh relates to the budget. um during our next meeting that that staff and community members will will take the survey and feel comfortable talking to board members and the administration about uh their vision or needs uh for the budget. And uh I am confident that we have a long season together. It's, you know, October 19th and we'll be at this frequently twice or three times a month from here on out until until it's all said and done. Uh I'm hopeful that the state part of it will be uh a

141little bit shorter than it was last year. Um and I just appreciate the uh phenomenal amount of work that goes into the prepping the material for the next budget uh meeting. And you know everything we mentioned I'm sure is um some number of hours of labor associated with it. And uh a lot of it falls on Miss Gillum to to to gather and put together. And so, uh, profound thanks, not only prepping for this one, but also for all of the to-dos that come out of it. Uh, unless anyone else wants to um say anything, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. >> I move we adjourn the meeting today. I'll >> second. All those in favor, please say I. I. I. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We are adjourned.