001they don't sound on oh now they they all right good evening everyone and welcome to the Ashen planning board meeting Thursday January 25th 2024 I am calling the meeting to order at 7:19 p.m. first on our agenda this evening as always we will have the clerk's report Kate yes Madam chair thank you we received since the last planning board meeting four emails uh two were sort of routine I think generated by hisor commission about um a site so I don't think they need any response one of them is a specific thing that will I think be responded by the town planner and one of them I think will probably be the chair to respond to the historic commission yeah I thought we would uh talk about that later tonight okay thank you all right next
002on the agenda is public comment um I'll do our typical policy of three minutes per speaker one time to the mic Peter you want to manage cover it thank you so much uh we have one uh citizen in the room that has gone up to the podium uh Mr Mark Don can you please unmute yourself at the mic and introduce yourself with your name and address yes it is all right we're good if I was home in Zoom it' be no problem okay good evening Mark Sony 49 haon Road mass and um I'm here I'm here for a couple reasons one reason is that I'm very happy the new way you start off your meetings with the clerk report get a lot more information out there and who and what what things are about that
003is informational for the regular citizens if they're home watching the other is um what's got to be on the agenda is the um the new new uh Clover Garden I'm is there going to be any citizens participation for that we will have citizens participation on that tonight and will there be citizens parations for the first ones yeah I think we have time for comment for that okay thank you that's it uh we have no other citizens participation with their uh in in in people in the room Andor folks on Zoom with their hand up so I think we're okay to move on all right then next on our agenda is um our public hearing section our first public hearing for tonight is 9 to 49 Homer Avenue which has been continued since J January 11th
004Peter can you give us an update on where we are sure so this project uh is kind of making its way through kind of tying up Loose Ends if everyone remembers at the last meeting we voted on the color uh and we went with a cool pallet um and so that was uh produced so after that vote the applicant um and I'll just introduce them on the call tonight we have Terry Morris who is the attorney represen in the application we have Mr Rick Salvo who is the civil engineer and we also have Ron Bor um Ron Bor is the architect uh with that said I just want to note that Ron has updated the full uh color brochure and renderings which you see in front of us tonight uh that were sent out and
005posted on the uh on our website uh and so those are the most upto-date color renderings uh of the building uh which we can review uh additionally we've been kind of looking to um answer some leftover questions and I have provided a memor random which was updated excuse me revised on January 19th with that said uh one of the questions that we were looking to answer uh was regarding a conversation regarding a sewer um grinder pump excuse me um excuse me uh so regarding that conversation regard uh the sewer grinder pump um Town Council did provide an opinion uh that was sent out uh and I believe it was posted on the website it did come through uh yesterday so if anybody hasn't had time to look at it just please note that and then
006today um we did receive and it it has not been sent out virtually but it is in everyone's uh binder tonight it's a memorandum from the uh applicants architect regarding the uh Ingress and egress in in the building code question regarding the three units that uh enter and exit onto the flat part of the roof uh that memorandum will be um under review by our Building Commissioner um and then I will obviously share responses uh however that is to to date um from new material submitted Andor collected I do want to say um I have additionally sent out a draft memo for site plan review and special permit I have them printed here in front of me they are not in your packets um I uh for I for I did not want to punch
007that many holes tonight uh leading up to the meeting uh and so it's right here I know I did uh send it out um digitally for everyone so I think that's where we stand tonight obviously we can go through a couple of the the you know any list that we want uh but also I would like to open up to the architect the engineer and the attorney for this applicant Peter if I could and uh Trisha just to clarify because I was not at the January 11th meeting or hearing um planning board hearing I wanted to make sure the applicant was aware that I did watch the entire video and I signed the affidavit that I am up to speed and I did observe the pallet Choice by the planning board this evening I'm very
008comfortable with what occurred and up to speed so that because it's a special permit we're all required to be present and can only miss a certain number of meetings I wanted the applicant to be aware that I did although I was not there I'm fully up to speed I just have to make a quick stop um I just got a text from the attorney that he cannot hear anything oh and so that is not intentional I I apologize do we know if anyone can hear out there um should be able to now okay I wouldn't mind if we exclude all the lawers me but uh Town planner can I please have a check on somebody on the zoom meeting if they can hear me that own yeah the sound just came back on I I
009I hav't only heard a couple of little Snippets okay thank you Helen I greatly appreciate it um uh anybody else out there okay they can hear us now okay all right uh okay so I will I guess just review that and as you could at least probably see that uh Kate gave her um Clerk's report we had a public comment by Mr donon and maybe I will open it up just briefly to uh public comments because no one asked no one heard me ask for public comment if anyone has a public comment that does not fit under one one of the agenda items tonight I will open it back up but only for items that do not fit under the agenda because we will be having public comment because you obviously didn't hear us ask
010for public comment oh no uh you you good Mark if anyone can go online and and uh um and listen to you on the on the tape um okay uh Town planner to Ellen Ellen do you have a public comment all right so those of you who definitely can hear us make sure you let Peter know somehow um if you can't turn your turn your cameras on and wave or something okay so um I will then ask the applicant um Mr Morris if there's anything um if there's any updates we need um this evening before we start our discussions is there anything you feel we need to see we have the packets in front of us but if there's something you want to make us especially aware of uh no Madam chair we understand you
011have uh received a complete package from our architect Ron bour in incorporating um the various uh things that had been discussed over the last few meetings uh we understand you've also received uh decision from the from Lisa me Town Council and we do know that our AR on book has been has delivered a letter to the commissioner dealing with the uh one of the other issues relative to access so at this point we do not have anything to add we look forward to participating in any way that you deem appropriate okay thank you so um at this point and I'm looking for planning board feedback but what we talked about the last time is that we would use this time to start going through some of the conditions the um the special permit conditions sorry
012the um the criteria special permit criteria site plan um review criteria um so that um we can see if there's anything that we get a little hung up on on these things that's not to say that our other checklist is complete that's not to say that we're not going to come back to it but to start making our way through these criteria so that we know where we might have issues does that sound agreeable um I have a question so I sent in a comment about the um like I'll call it's a memorandum but the open outstanding items list um can do I need to send that in again or like how how do we get that discussed I can Kate I can follow up on that so I did receive your comment yeah and
013I did uh reach out to gcg and I did use your email is and and I did include the verbiage that you were looking for to kind of to to pinpoint and get some answers on uh I did not include that email in the packet tonight but I'm happy to share that with you uh followup you know as followup to the meeting yeah and I I guess I at some point would love to see one list so if it can get added to the list this edited I mean I think that was the point right that's yeah exactly like that list Peter and I were starting to go through that list um I think some of it went out with specific um yeah specific areas I think point one is probably the most has the
014most uh sub points in it let's say that are still being reviewed by gcg but those things were sent to them I think I included the original design Review Committee comment list that created the comment that you were interested in so that went back to them as awes as well even though I know I know Mark Carter got it once he's got it a couple times I actually I emailed him I think I emailed him I followed up with a phone call and that memo was dated August 2nd uh and that has also been part of the record um and so it's all being analyzed and no I'm good with that I mean it's under item one it's just some things were added read and other things so that's why I just but if that's
015the process I'm fine it's it's there it's I have not made my back way back to that list yet so but um but it's next on the to-do list so um is this in is this in the bind this is this is so so um what Trisha is is is referring to is the special permit the site plan approval and the design review criteria that actually rests uh behind the agenda um no I'm sorry it it rests in section five of everyone's binder excuse me I'm sorry I hit it back back there just so it can remain there um am I correct section five no there's no se I have it right after the agenda is it right after I'm sorry it's right after the agenda to the bank correct yep I'm sorry yeah so
016what I did um because both in printed form that I have at home and online I find it's just a little hard you know to go through so what I had Peter do as you can see just a few days ago is to download it from from the website or the by loss and put in some minimal formatting because anytime someone does a bylaw it seems to be formatted slightly differently um so gave it some minimal formatting so I can find myself in it uh so really this was selfishly for me but I thought it might be helpful for everybody so um what I did the only thing I really underlined in these three categories uh 9.4 special permits 9 no sorry 9.3 special permit 9.4 site plan review and 9.6 which is design plan
017review is to call out um where the criteria are so um should we just start at the beginning and look at criteria for special permits and as you know these aren't the only things we can look at but these are things we have to look at so we we at least should get some of those going so criteria one under special permit is community needs served by the proposal and you remember that in our conditions why don't we pass these out too yep just because we all love they're all uh actually I'll take this one off the talk sorry or just one do I just take one uh yep just take one you want to do it no I'll do it it you should have two statements here you go this is for you okay
018you so as you know when we start to put our decision together um whether it's an approval or not an approval we need to list out these criteria and um have a a narrative a short narrative that describes that if unless it's non applicable which once in a while you get one of those starts on page nine it's just for everyone's reference okay so um so Peter in the in the draft approvals what he was doing is kind of go through and filling in all the uh factual information obviously all the all the different um meetings to continue es the artifacts anything that was submitted um uh I think there's are there some draft conditions or is it the basic conditions the conditions that I left in there it's just the basic conditions kind of
019the boil pre conditions there are two bullet points I just tossed in just and I highlight them in yellow just for a reminder point for myself uh but no these are just typical the boiler plate conditions that we what we normally have okay so under criteria uh number nine if we just start talking about those um uh criteria a is community needs served by their proposal so basically we're looking to give Peter information about how we think that needs to be filled out do you want to just kind of talk through some of those things yeah I think anyone who has something to that we would put under that category let's take I'll take some notes be a yeah I'm happy to take I'm take notes right now I'm not gonna I mean I think
020the most obvious is that there is a housing crisis in Massachusetts and so I think we always are interested in contributing to the solution for that um including you know obviously component of this is going to be affordable housing um and that makes a difference there is I think interest in this board on on downtown revitalization and giving our community a um a more walkable active energetic downtown that also preserves the Aesthetics of our unique Historic downtown so I would say there's some Community need served by this kind of project that is certainly there um to explore all right thank you anyone else want to add to that that cover everything I I will actually I was just going to add the the only thing that that Anna didn't mention but it it was in
021Fair there is um the um amplifying the the the the scope of commercial uh uses in downtown which is part of that revitalization right and and and an improvement to the tax Bay and to the services that people in ashin um can benefit from so so adding business and Commercial St mixed use I think is the term that we are seeking to add to downtown well I just um want to make a comment there is commercial there now that will be going away so so I don't necessarily agree with that as an assessment I understand there is miuse but it's fine but I but you would agree that it's it's it's U it's it's uh in terms of the the way serves the downtown the P The Pedestrian access to it will be an improved
022type of Commerce because Commerce Commerce that is a Street Mall Stop type which we have in the town it's it's it's is I would say it's it's is um let's favorable or less conducive to to what the downtown is as a district and I think that's a it's it's almost an an an infill of um of um leftover from years past that was not organized to to call us for pedestrian friendly Commerce it's more vehicular is being replaced with a different type of Commerce yeah no I just I'm just saying that personal that I don't see given that there's commercial there now that that's maybe a wash in I I would I personally wouldn't want to sell that as a um Community needs given that we're taking removing commercial as well it could be yeah
023understood and it could be as uh providing opportunity for for different types of businesses or but we can note that remember these are just draft conditions and we can re word them as we as we want so um Terry um well let me let me finish this conversation first anything else Anna I was just going to say it's an interesting idea like replacing one with the other on the other hand like there is a value if you will and I guess we as a board have to figure out what are we trying to do downtown right um so you know are we replacing it with light industrial are we replacing it with a hotel are we replacing it with residential and business what's important to us and so any kind of project is going to
024potentially respond on to a community need even if it's replacing something else so it's not so much I don't think the BW is asking us to like rate and compare o is this project better than the prior one it's more like what will this project do towards whatever value we have as a community that's sort of how I interpret the bylaw I don't think we have to measure it against what's already there as much as is it consistent with what we want now um but I respect and understand Kay's point that we are kind of maybe we're changing the dynamic of the kind of business maybe we are making almost a um a shift in the presentation if you will of Ashland like maybe more towards a fancy business versus a not so fancy but
025that is something that we haven't really discussed as a board as to what we're looking to do so I'm not sure how to how to frame that yet but I think I see it what I was mentioning is more of the difference between a quantitative exchange of one Commerce to the other to a qualitative uh approach because uh even when we went there yeah there's commercial equipment there there's there's Paving trucks that park in the back on the space uh uh and and paving company uses that that thing I I think for what the downtown is trying to do and we've invested a lot of money on on What's happen in the downtown is towards pedestrian use of the downtown better than Paving trucks I think it's it's it's yeah it's a business just like
026the other is a business too but the downtown is intended to to to to bring people in people pedestrians to to revitalize downtown and I think that's it it it is a is a is an improvement based on this criteria because the downtown is not any commercial space it's down I agree with Marcel on this that like if you think about some of the really successful community events that we've had in the downtown space in the past couple of years where people are out and they're walking whether it's the holiday stroll or it's the trick-or treat event or things like that it's sort of on that that one pedestrian you know area off of Main Street and then heading down Front Street I think I can Envision with the walkability of this project that's making
027the turn all the way down right and it's sort of brings in um that whole area and and uh opens up like a whole other side of downtown that right now I think doesn't feel super connected because of the walkability factor and so I do I do think that's a community ad and I think the project has you know whether it's we've had a lot of thought towards you know seating and um bike you know bike racks and things that are are going to have a way for the community to come into that space and use this project um aside from just sort of you know pulling in pulling your car in and making your errand and then driving off to wherever you have to go next so so can I suggest language that we
028might want to use for that um yeah yeah I mean I I think uh you know Peter's if you want something specific otherwise I think Peter's taking notes and we'll be doing a draft and a if you want I'll greatly appreciate email to me and I'm just listening and my thought was pedestrian gateway to the southern edge of the downtown is the community need the that's great meeting pedestrian Gateway that seems to be consistent with what I'm hearing I I will just add a comment that to Kate's point we are replacing and therefore it gets me thinking where would we want those businesses that we're kind of kicking out to go if they don't belong in downtown anymore because it's going to be a pedestrian Gateway how do we need to contemplate where those businesses
029can actually do well are there other parts of town light industrial that we need to think about but that's separate that may be a comprehensive plan question right but something for us uh since that's our um planning is our thing okay I see a hand raised um yeah Attorney Morris do you want to do you want I see you have your hand raised I do have a question a procedural question because obviously the only thing where you're considering the special permit criteria but the only special permit element of this project is a flat roof and yet it seems to be you're treating the whole use you you you're you're treating the use which is allowed by right in the in the overlay District as if it were uh the subject of the debate I I
030I just don't how you how the what approach the planning board is going to take to De to discuss for example you're talking about businesses now okay I understand we're going to answer the question Peter okay Terry I understand your question I think overall we're just talking about the project as a whole and how does it fit into the community you know and I think these are just overall findings of the board um and I think later on down you know in our finding area um these are just the criteria that we have under the 9.3.2 of our special permits um and these are kind of boilerplate and they're used you know across the board I think when we get down to 8.5.1 14 which is the mandatory findings to for a special permit in
031the Ashland downtown district that's when we'll jump into um the the components of the special permit regarding just the flat roof and how it um how it relates to to the decision okay so um yeah and I and I I could be wrong but I I don't think that our special permit bylaw I don't think specifies that we I think it we just um are supposed to look at that we're granting the special permit as a whole and these are the criteria at least that is my understanding and is our typical procedure so that we are going to continue on with that um the second criteria is traffic flow and safety including parking and loading um I think just just to jump in um I think we've talked about we still maybe looking for a
032few things maybe not um from gcg part of it's on the list of the the outstanding items list that we had been looking for um but it seems like all of that we have discussed have had it analyzed have asked the fire department have asked the police department and all of that I think is contained in our current process yeah I think the second page of the memorandum that lists off of in red I I don't know what it's called it's called outstanding items memorandum it does have Ashen Fire Department ashin police department on the emergency vehicle parking spaces being satisfied and I recall that the flow was changed to make it smoother so seems like we've addressed those issues the item three is still open waiting for gcg yeah absolutely in going in going
033through these in no way are we saying that that list is finished or compl that's right yeah does anyone else have comments under number two okay number three was adequacy of utilities and other public services I think this would be water sewer um would fall under this what what else might fall under that category Peter uh just to water sewer you know normally power energy obviously we have all that stuff um and uh we do obviously have we have we do have sewer capacity we have water this area is as highest water pressure we checked on that um from the sewer standpoint you know Greg Aldridge gave us that memo a couple you know months ago at this point and I'm happy to check in with him again but um you know this did come
034in and we do have enough so we have item 10 is still maybe weed information I haven't seen it still open on the sewer capacity isn't that one of the things you had uh I think that's one of the things I okay I know the water they said was adequate I do not recall sewer I'll double check yeah can we double check that because I thought number 11 was a possible condition not necessarily wrapped up am I misreading the memo or has because it says water flow test should be completed as a possible condition so is that water test doesn't Sue it that's that's for fire protection and that's and that was actually confirmed for water okay y I took that as water pressure that's that's the test to make sure that there's enough water
035capacity for firefighting and which it was tested gotcha okay as long as we've addressed it no I don't think that's a an issue from what I remember hearing yeah and like I said there are um as we keep noting there are outstanding items some of actually aren't aren't outstanding anymore but from that list but we're going through these first and then we'll continue to go back and forth between the two lists but it's good to note those things if if you have questions because then we'll make sure the questions are answered and it reflects back to this um item number four is neighborhood character and social structures I think that goes a little bit with what Anna was talking about in number one about the fatality of the community yeah and I want to say
036that um we had also discussed if I recall there were like little benches in front of the project where there's like the little enclaves of trees and benches for people to sit that in theory people could kind of congregate as they walk by and if I recall there's a little pocket park on the side and potential for bike racks and so all of that is part of the the neighborhood character if you will of inviting people to start utilizing that pedestrian Gateway if you will feel that we're trying to create on that side um that's not just for the residents in that Community but kind of creating this kind of third space where people can sort of hang out in theory and visit a friend or you know I don't know pick up the mail
037and hang out open it um that kind the mural too kind of blending exactly have a cup of coffee and sit by the side of this new project I think the other thing here for me is that and maybe it will be forgotten in the in the the many things we've been going through with this project um especially as we wait for gcg and um responses to gcg is that I think when we first received this project um I at least was um surprise isn't the right word but maybe grateful for that I think they had paid attention closely attention in a proper way to the things that we have in the downtown district as far as form based code and that it was obvious that that they looked at it they studied it they
038didn't just um put it on in some halfhazard way but actually in a way that looked proportionally correct now I know everyone doesn't have the same style of architecture but they looked at the they looked at the downtown um form based code and they applied it and I think applied it well so I would put that in there as well I have a comment on that because this is this is saying our our um decision is based on a written determination the adverse effects of it will not outweigh the benefits and I I appreciate like seeing all the great things CU I think there are but if you recall when this first started out I mean people those are historic buildings you might not like them right but those could be people do value history
039in our town they came and said so and like the social structures are there's businesses there that's a barber shop right then that is the barber shop is not part of this project the barber Shop's going to stay there um I don't think so I think so that's in the brick building right in the brick building um Chris's Barber sh St Pizza okay so some other business the strip mall on the back is the one that's so so I I guess what I want to be careful for me personally I think I don't think the board's saying this but I would like it somehow to be in there that we are respectful of the things that are we are that are dramatically being changed I think that's important at least for me so hopefully that
040will make it in that there there are some detriment to existing social structure of that neighborhood people have expressed that I disagree with that it does it doesn't mean they don't outweigh that's if you read the criteria yeah no no but but what you're saying is that that that to to make a statement that I think is unnecessary they're not historic structures that is a a a term of art that they are old structures and people some people value them yes I don't think they have de they have been deemed historic for for for in in any way I not I have not seen that they're under our bylaw though for I will to be clear they're under the they would be the under our bylaw for a demolition review that's true that's that's a
041different thing yeah no but that but so so I I I'm just saying I I get what you're saying but everybody on any new project some people will like some things and some people will not like things if we start introducing or or making determinations based on some opinions that are not really gerine to the criteria I think we're going into a slipper slope I I don't see the need I think the neighborhood character is Germain it says so as a criteria that's and is being improved that's what we're saying because he is conforming to the street in a pedestrian scale which is not now right now basically if you see it's almost like a in in my personal opinion it's like a broken smile of an urban space with buildings that were not accommodated
042to to face the street and to create an environment that we're trying to reverse now with the with the changes in downtown that's exactly the benefit of so I don't think if you say it's improving by acknowledging some important of what they I don't I don't think they negate each other is my point but I don't think there a detriment because they have to demolish some buildings to make the project that's that's just to kind of jump in I think there is a middle ground where I don't think the bylaw requires us with all due respect I don't think the bylaw requires us to compare and say you must put in something better and I don't think we would I personally would not want to put language that says what we're putting in is better
043than what was there I think that what all we need to do is we need to make sure that the project contributes to the neighborhood character and social structure and it can without us feeling like we have to kind of pick which one is better U I don't know if that makes sense this way you're both right I think Marcelo is right that the project has benefits I think Kate is saying hey we're still replacing something of value to our community that also has neighborhood value to the neighborhood both of those things can be true and we don't need to pick which one is best and I don't think we're doing I I agree I think we're both saying in in a in a round say I don't think need to be stated in which
044Kate is requesting that this decision says something about that part that of the replacement it's almost yeah we don't need to get into well I think I'm only requesting if we are saying it's better I guess that's the point so I think if it it's we're saying it complies and and and and we're agreeing that that that benefits the downtown are you okay with saying that it's better because I for one would feel more comfortable not starting to to compare it to what's there I don't think that's necessary as long as we've acknowledged the public that we respect the fact that every type of neighborhood has a aesthetic and cultural value and right now people enjoy that use of the neighborhood the future use may be used differently and also enjoyed I don't I personally
045don't feel comfortable saying hey I prefer something this way versus that way I think everyone has their own subjective preference but this new project will have neighborhood character and social structure I think trous point is that it fits so well with what is already happening downtown and and the aesthetic there I think the consideration of the train station is another example of paying homage that that neighborhood character very differential to that very significant building and how it would look contrast um consideration of like the future extension of the rail trail and how that'll play in with the use of that building so I think there are lots of elements that the Project's considered that we as a board have considered that that go to this without having to make a value judgment no I I
046I don't have a problem saying I think it's substantially better yeah I mean I think um I see with that you know I think the only way we can know if Ashland as a whole would prefer what's there now to what's being proposed is to take a vote right of everybody but it's our job to look at proposals and say yeah I think I think this has benefits for Ashland over what's there I think this is adding to the Vitality of the region I think this will support our local businesses I think you know this will improve our community right um there obviously there are six of us sitting here and we may have different degrees of yeah I barely think it's better or I really think it's better um but I think that's part
047of you know what we do is to try to make try try to at least make put an add in now it may not be an add in every you may say oh I wish it was just open space well yeah that would be great but that's that's not not our decision is what's being proposed better than what's there currently you know um and it and that may have many uh many different facets to it so um I I think in writing the conditions remember when we get to this it is coming to some kind of consensus on these um but not necessar not necessarily is everyone going to be in full agreement all the time it's that's basically impossible unless you're just writing very very gray decisions about everything which I'm not in favor
048of either I think sometimes you have to take a stand so um but anyway I think that I think the comment is duly noted and if if you have any if anyone has language for that they feel strongly for a language that they would like to propose Peter is happy to take someone's text either right off the page or as a starting point for the for us to for us to then talk about it again so okay right perfectly said thank you all right so um okay impacts on the natural environment is there anything thing on the site that we're just thrilled to save natural stuff do we have to check off do we have to check off all the boxes on this we have to say something about all the criteria now some of
049them might be not applicable I mean impacts on the natural environment obviously that's not just the trees that are there but it could be runoff it could be um hey we're adding a building so it's going to take more power though it could be more efficient than what's there um you know I don't it doesn't Define for us what that means I would just note this site has no water uh water treatment uh for runoff and so we are actually adding storm water onto the site we're making it obviously better for the environment um cuz right now there's hard pan and that's about it and it just flows and runs so now obviously we're going to have infiltration there's going to be um processes so obviously kind of make sure that water stays on site
050it's clean and it goes back back to the ographer and it's in obviously um it's in relationship to all mass storm water standards which are obviously getting stter and stricter by the day uh which is a good thing I'll add that isn't there also like a garden or something on the roof am I imagining that one of our first meetings there were um specific kinds of plants that would be up there that in theory could be attractive to birds and uh insects I'm a big fan of those since I'm hearing less and less of them in my neighborhood maybe they'll hang out over there a little bit on their way somewhere um I think that's important I think the site is definitely more becoming more green than it was I can't I don't remember anything
051specific about that upper area and what what any kind Garden I'm not sure I vely remember that I think the applicant had person that was very knowledgeable in specific type of plantings and it sounded like it was thought out and intentional to attracting some activity from creatures there is a roof garden and you are correct as a landscape architect on the project we brought in obviously native species uh made native specimens that will obviously be planted throughout the site um and hopefully they do attract Critters the good Critters not the bad Critters uh to this to this property I think this will be the category where you add better value or value to the project versus is probably the other ones where it's more kind of bringing enhancement to the neighborhood but from Value Point
052of View probably this is the category where we say one is better than the other um just to be respectful for the existing conditions for sure anyone have anything else under impact to the natural environment okay last one on special permit is potential fiscal impact including impact on Town Services tax base and employment so this this the grinder Topic in theory no um no okay yes that's utility I think this one is self-explanatory in terms of there will be businesses there will be more people living there there will be taxpayers so we we've been I've been on the board I think going on two years and we've been talking about that fiscal impact and I think we have to be really careful of how we talk about that if we don't have data right of
053um don't we have a calculator or something that we could use um we were the last I knew that was still in flux of of you know just to speak to this issue obviously we did talk about the fiscal Impact Tool we do uh we did reach out to Framingham City University we kind of had a call with them um you know we kind of have worked through this process a little bit have we have we updated our fiscal impact calculator that goes back to 2016 when the town hired rkg to to to create a a fiscal impact for the cus no we have not taken that fat we have not taken that step um and so have we also but have we also looked at uh we also kind of built out a very
054simplified calculator um and we can we can kind of plug these numbers in um but but I think to what Kate's speaking too which would be a larger fiscal impact uh calculator uh if you remember with 10 to 60 Main Street we had a gentleman Craig um come in and he talked to us about what it is he actually took that calculator and plugged in the the 10 to 60 Main Street project um was that finalized completed um and iron doubt no that you know that was kind of a project um that we were starting to work through a little bit with t 6 Main Street if you remember that gentleman Craig actually worked for the town as a consultant so then he was working for the private side um but just to Kate's point
055that that's been kind of a topic and a and kind of a general project that we've kind of spoken about uh as a whole so on on this point um I I guess I want to bring it up like Peter and way back with Emma did a sort of simplified and is the board I mean I guess I recommend we at least look at that would we be comfortable adding that it obviously be updated every things change so much but um I just want to be like I know we did that for one decision like it's stapled to it this is right or wrong we did our best to try to evaluate I I feel like we have to have some basis for evaluation is that you're the only one that knows this tool Peter
056is that is that possible yeah it's possible you know most of it it's just kind of the Town budget stuff divided divided into you know per person and then you can kind of estimate how many people would be living here and you know what that impact would be um you know I can try to produce something but U I was I was talking about to can we take a look at the simplified one it was pretty simple the one that you and Emma did and see if we correct if we think that's reasonable and if we have suggestions and maybe use that at least until we can say what what's the real book end that we want to go for yeah that that's what I that's what I was asking if that was if that
057was possible to that's a POS it's possible and and I think that's kind of a something that we can kind of take care of um you know I I don't see any issue with that okay so let's put in there and just see what it crunches out I guess at least as a starting point um it's a good idea I mean it's good to not like write a decision just for the sake of a sentence right like it's good to have data to say hey we reviewed a simplified calculator we're comfortable with it it does get me thinking about like special permits in general and maybe at a retreat sometime we can talk about that because what does this mean like does that mean that if a project comes in that's like really fiscally difficult
058we would what would we do it doesn't apply here but it gets me thinking bigger like what do we do with data calculator if it spits out something we don't necessarily are prepared to deal with so I'm all for using the calculator but I feel like we should also EXP explore the impact of that if suddenly it spits out something we aren't ready for yeah I mean um like what if it says that it's extreme right on a larger project then what I don't know the answer to that so I just kind of want to it's not related to this decision but it gets me thinking in a more serious way about what that actually means yeah I I know I Peter probably didn't do any more digging into it but when he was digging
059into it before he kind of found that well no one else had a calculator so so there's no there's no nothing to compare it to like as our calculator accurate is it good is it bad like yeah oh at least we have one but what does it say right what's it you know it's yeah so it was very tough to compare obviously and you know other towns and not to call out bu any towns that it reached out to but yes they did not have calculators like we did right so you know we we were able to build something that was simplistic uh is it the is it the complicated statistical measurements that that were done by a professional statistician you know for cus you know within concerning Economic Development you know looking at you
060know five-digit you know labor NYX codes no it's not you know and and I don't think we need to get into that right so it's just kind of a kind of a where we want to land on the the the uh the ruler of um complexity however at the end of the day does it comply it kind of complies to other all projects not just this one project any other comments about number six okay then um I was assuming that this public hearing would go to 8:15 830 so if people are up for it we can continue on to the um flight plan review crer should be in the other St packet or in my you want to just a note in site plan review I did say in the email um this the the
061conditions are not in this one nor are the documents of the record just because once they're completed in the special permit they'll be obviously copy and pasted and put into here so I'm only change them in one spot okay so um site plan review criteria oh sorry didn't have my mic on site plan R review criteria starts out um with minimize some of these are more are more obvious a minimize use of wetlands steep slopes flood planes and hilltops so I uh I don't think we have any of that remaining on the site um from whatever it was many years ago I I'm not not even sure that um noting storm water runoff is really applicable here it's not really what it's about MH trying to think if look if it's uh mentioned later not
062really any any comment on that or to me it's um to me it's just not applicable there's just no natural landscape here okay minimize obstruction of Scenic views I don't think we have anything to worry about I think we can say non applicable to that as well okay uh item C is are were you looking up some no I'm keep going I'm good item C preserve unique natural or historical features so natural again there's I don't think there's anything there um historical features Kate would you say your past comment applies there that you that you think there's some things that may be considered historical or to some people considered historical yeah we did have comments to the board I mean I I'm I I'm I mean full disclosure I'm a board member of Ash Historical
063Society I think that's not a secret of a value to me but um I I don't think we're preserving historic speakers so I think we have to say no right we just have to be well it's either it's either not applicable it would be not applicable or or or or this preserving or it's not preserving I mean you have to be more definitive if if you're going to get into that but we don't have to to have non-applicable or it's great on each one we could have a few that were yeah it's not really meeting this criteria and that's okay I think I think that's right like I don't think we want to but I think the question then is like for me and um and I think I'm more in Marcel's Camp here that
064just something it has to be both old and and recognized deemed historically significant like everything that isn't it's just like like not all ant old antiques are valuable they're only valuable sometimes that's your opinion Trish and I think you could find people to say otherwise and so that's why why why it is important right well has the historical commission considered this side historic meaningful historically in any shape I don't think it's come before them yet so hold on no but the words used are features yeah so it's not a historic building or a historic site or recognized historic by an official organization its features it's very features to me is a very loose term it could mean a variety of things it could be a building though it could be or it could be was
065saying Ian could be historic yeah I mean it's to me it's like what I like about the project is by size like I'm not a huge fan of like this kind of wall concept that there's like a block right but I do kind of like that there's some thought that we're putting in connecting it to the historic train station and the his toric um U post office in the sense that by scale there's some respect of kind of how Ashlin looks you know it's of a certain height a certain feel and we're thinking about colors and how it kind of that to me is a form of respecting some of her history kind of what what does Ashlin feel like when you drive through it and I think we're not like putting in an urban
066tall building that would be truly disrespectful of what ashlin's hisory history is to me so you know it depends how you interpret this like I'm almost neutral on it I think that but when the word preserve is very specific I think so yeah and we're not preserving pres a natural or historic feature It also says unique historical feates exactly it is very specific I would I I I I would hate for us to say we're not complying with this element if we don't have something specific in mind that we're that there's a unique historical feature that's very specific that we're saying we're not preserving you know I I hesitate to say like we're not meeting that I don't just because someone says it's historic doesn't mean it is true but but in that nature because
067the criteria is whether it preserves unique natural or historical features if if there's none there is a non applicable by default by default yes yeah so is that the would Trend I would is that the conclusion we're reaching that it's the it's the unique word in there that modif I I don't see a unique historical feature in that that we're that we're neglecting to preserve I i' say there's there to have to worry about it would be not applicable okay I'm just having an and or an or lawyer moment but I'll go but I'll go with you there's like law decisions written on that so you know but honestly I'm comfortable with the na the non-applicable we need to have like AR battles and lawyer battles on our our group right I'm all for na
068you know honestly honestly what it comes down to is the way I imagine it is let's say there was a church a theoretical church I used to live in Portland Maine and this actually happened where a developer comes in and converts it to a very fancy restaurant right that very much could be preserving unique natural historical feature right absolutely so I think the I think the bylaw is intending for that type of energy is there something in town that we're grabbing and then forcing keeping it in some way if if if P Rock was located there and they were doing something to to to right for and be able I would be okay with no I would probably be okay with a no but I'm but in light of Kate's concerns about the buildings there
069I think an NA is a lot more comfortable okay I think we it's good to discuss these things because we actually haven't we never had this yeah so okay um we should do it more often remember what we're doing item four minimize tree vegetation and soil removal and grade changes now granted soil is going to be removed on this project um for the underground parking but I don't think that that's what this is about I think it's it's about to me it reads that it's about changing of the landscape um but yeah or eliminating vegetation exists right is is that the intent of this phrase minimiz stream vegetation and soil removal I would say we're doing that like we're not making it worse or destroying some soil or CH I mean I think you agree
070with that but given that it is specifically removing a lot of soil on the parking rid we probably just have to have an edit to mention that that we think it complies with the minimization but it I besides it's a lot of yeah besides adding a lower level in the base you know yeah and that's true but it's also adding more vegetation that is there yeah so it's actually increasing yeah so this one so therefore is not minimizing right yeah but the soil yeah goes in the other direction I think it's minimizing on balance um well the finding isn't it is it isn't a yes no it's a it's a narrative right so so we could talk about that soil is being removed for the purposes of underground parking but I I really I think
071the the note is that you know on the surface it looks the same right um okay e uh maximize open space retention yeah with the definition of open space I mean we have to see yeah I me not just empty space I would say right now it depends how you define open space if you defined it as an asphalt parking lot then you can say okay there's a lot of open space if you define define it as Greenery you can say that there's none at all on this no or or public or publicly accessible like the pocket park and the little plazas don't exist now right yeah it ised yeah I don't yeah maybe we can look at it um but retention is that what you were looking at I did what was it we
072yep uh open space the lot area not covered by any structure other than a swimming pool and not used for uh drives parking or storage but includes balconies or any roof area developed for recreation not if not part of a structure or paved it shall be kept uh stabilized with vegetation cover pie needles barkk or other organic materials that is so 1960s anytime there's a b that mentions a pool okay that was drafted in like um that that that speaks to minimizing erosion right or like a yeah natural yeah I mean according can we on this one like just sort of put a description of what's there and what's see and and and it sort of because it's we C I think that's the way to do that one like we we're acknowledging existing has
073open space Paving we're replacing spaces in between buildings with intentional pocket park and enclaves in front of the building plus a rooftop Greenery to supplement what we've done so and some it's I think the intentionality of it is important like we we're choosing to do it this way even though the definition doesn't talk about public or or public it's we simply is it's very vague you know simply the definition itself it's it's a definition to calculate that percentage on a project redefining open space in the century so yeah so I think I mean some version without torturing Peter of acknowledging if we went literally by our definition it's almost na right but that we can be creative yeah no exactly that's what I'm saying so then then we can say some of the of the
074features that we think it's it is maximizing I think those should probably both I think we're going to get in trouble if we make it modern for what it is I I personally really like The Enclave thing in front the little thoughtful thing that we're doing in the front of the building where people can kind of hang out I count that as open space because the public could in theory ride by on a bike park the bike and sit down and have an ice cream cone so that counts to me and does have some value yeah I mean you it'd be a little dangerous to sit in the parking lot you know of the other you know and have your ice cream right exactly and and so so what is the what is the the
075comment to this that like um applicable or I is maximizing I'm I'm going to be creative and and draft something up and and everyone can take a take a turn reading it there is public space I mean open space yeah I'll use my imagination Marcel oh boy yeah all right all right uh item F screen objectionable features from neighboring properties and roadways there's not did we discuss like the the trash system it's internal it's an internal trash room okay then I think we're good I think this is yeah I don't think there not applicable because it's not screening anything there's not he's just the project there's not a lot objectionable he's just a neighborhood um G consideration shall be given to the impacts of the project on Town services and infrastructure this is kind of
076similar to the other one did anyone have any additional comments but I think it's that's one that's very similar to special permit Town services and infrastructure and that's what's been reviewed by gcg right correct so we talked about that yep item H is Electric telephone cable television gas water sewer drainage and other such utilities shall be underground except in the case of extreme physical and environmental constraints I think that's all under well the telephone the telephone polls are going to remain on Homer however uh coming into the building they will be all undergound yeah so okay um item I expose storage areas Machinery Service areas truck loading areas utility buildings and structures and other unsightly uses so be shall be set back or screened to protect the neighbors and those using public ways from objectionable
077features such areas shall not be such areas should not be impede the flow of traffic on public ways am I reading that strangely shall not be shall not impede on huh is that the way it is I guess yeah okay shall not impede the flow let's take a look at that fine just kind of this this one was just downloaded right no you're think it's just about they written but I think it's it's accurate like I think we have this handled yeah I I can find yeah find it I was just trying to see if that over the years if that got just manipulated versus this fresh copy we just got offline okay Jay when applicable yeah so the unsightly things I mean I guess um you know the all the units that are on
078top there's all the um heat pumps on top of the building right um on the flat roof area but I think they're all they're they're outside of U are they because doesn't the roof SL up this a Propet yeah yeah and the perspective you will never see it with the Propet because I think that's they demonstrated that in one of the meeting that we that we discussed see the rendering here or just not to get repeat it like put it in the conditions they said it was or for the dry cuz I like I most Martel like the less you're kind of repeating on stuff we just say we think it met it I don't think it hurts to say that it's something they they volunte I think they volunteered to do that to not
079make it visible yeah part of as far as we're concerned yeah it's right there this one's yeah yeah they're set they're kind of set down right into the roof yeah there's a wh there yeah but along with that I didn't I mean I actually we were kind of going higher level but little things like screening the Transformer and stuff and that usually I guess oh yeah cuz that's along the side of the property is that right um I don't remember so at some point we should probably look at that yeah it's uh actually it's in the back oh no that's that's no storage I I don't think this information would have that till they develop the construction documents that has to be coordinated with ever orce of whoever is providing the power some yeah okay
080that may be actually the utilities property not not project cor we make um but we you I mean every decision I've been part of there's been screening and whether it gets completed that way or not it's been screened and it's on the plans I I don't think we know where it is then then we can put that in that question to the applicant do we do we have a location um who's who's still on there I did the civil engineer Terry uh we just have a question we want to pose do we have a location for a Transformer or any other kind of uh those kind of services on the site something that might need to be screened aank can you hear me now yes yeah sorry about that uh my experience has been that
081the utility companies usually tell you where they're going to put the Transformer okay that's that's like information I have yep that's what kind of was our discussion here too so well usually I mean in some cases like I show in the rendering I don't know if it's the case but they are usually on on the polls sometimes um and they have the the conduits Going Underground unless it's one of those that are you know sitting in the landscape um I guess it could just be a I mean it definitely could be a condition that if something's located in the landscape you know that it can be it can be planted around or you know whatever yeah something the Transformer is shown on the plan side in mid it's for Salo yep can you guide us
082to where we're looking on the site layout plan uh kind of the bottom B left corner you have it there um move this around yeah it's at the bottom of the page it's a box with a T in it I'm just looking at the Peter if you want to give me permission to share I can point it out that helps Rick you're a co-host pal please feel free bottom right hand corner second I'm right is not there did you find it did you guys find it if you could point out that would be great he's going to point he's going to pull he's going to point it out right here oh oh on the back back on the oh here we have a tree there don't we or is it this other one there is
083a tree shown there in the plan tree might be in front of it or behind it but entr lab yeah we have uh we have a tree coming right down maybe in the the middle of that Transformer box Le pretty darn close to it there'll be room to sight the tree on on one side of the Transformer box to help screen it there's plenty of Island around it it's going to be in the island I guess so the question is whether they'll be condition I me it's in the back of the site right as we see it yeah in the back the building is screen from view from the street really I me to see it here you have to go all the way in there right but Street well this landscape here I'm going
084sure that Ian there's no f a fence then then then could be could be the screen could be natural or or with fence I mean I think they they're they're proposing landscape there so it could be screen with landscape yeah I mean I think I think I would prefer that it's just screen with some simple Landscaping instead of putting a fence around it that'll end up being bigger than the Transformer itself cuz then you will see Landscaping instead of yeah because they have neighbors on that side of so maybe the condition is that when when the final determination is made that the landscape architect can work out the planting plan to screen it simple screening you know matching the things that are already being proposed yeah okay all right item J when applicable the site
085plan shall show measures to reduce and Abate noise generated from the site that will impact surrounding properties I think it may get quieter given the equipment that's stored back there I think I remember one of our first meetings I asked folks what the vision was for like light noise light pollution and noise pollution on that roof I mean if I if I lived in the building like that I'd have a party up there um maybe it'd be loud New Year maybe I would throw some uh what's it called for New Year's Eve I might do a little bit of a you know something into the sky what do you call them the little flares or something so in theory you could have with any kind of exciting new change for Ashland like a rooftop on
086a building downtown we may want to think about that and just hear from the applicant that some assurance that this is not going to get Rowdy outside of the scope of the norm Behavior I think then you have to put I think it's the same ordinance go for those residents as the residents of the neighborhood right everybody should be treated the same if one person can't throw a party another person can't no no I'm not asking the applicant to have party hours I'm too libertarian for that what I'm saying is I'd love to hear from the applicant now how they Envision the use of that space is it open during the daytime is it open at night like just out of curiosity and that may completely address all of my well it's it's access to
087a couple of the units they need to just to get to their unit they need to access that space so it has to be and tough to tell because there's multiple uh people living there it's like asking you how how how would you use your backyard yeah Sunday I'll use it one way on a Friday I'll do I mean and I I think the is it private private department is it is it a private space that's not visible or or uh to the public like I I I personally do not get a good that's all I'm saying all I'm saying is I think it's worth exploring I'm not aware of other apartments yet in ashin that have that that we've had but but I think I think I I I get I get what you
088what you're saying but the the there's no condition there's no finding there any misbehavior would be dealt by the police department that that's not a planning board I yeah I don't think so I I don't think I mean noise is right in there noise is definitely our thing but the most affected would be the residents in the building before the neighbors are going to get affected so I don't know if that's even because all the windows of those units are around that open area so if at all anybody gets affected the first would be the residence in the building so I don't think it's yeah it I I I don't see that that's an issue I I just see this as more if it's a if it's an industrial site if it's it's trucks in
089the early morning dropping off Dunkin Donuts you know or whatever it is it's it's I don't I don't see it as Noise by residents because then you start to put a real to me judgment call on certain residents and not on other residents so the but in thinking about that site right we we there's commercial there we're we're replacing commercial we don't know what'll happen and and those businesses can deliveries for those business can have a dramatic in impact on neighbor houses I live near a plaza I know so we do have to address that and it and it may be just a condition about like delivery hours or things but I think I think residential or commercial use is absolutely within our jurisdiction to essentially address the noise issue because you could have a
090hotel move in and it's way louder you could have a B all business move in and it's going to be different noise than residential I don't think we're somehow punishing people we just have to acknowledge the fact that this is unique to downtown downtown at night kind of has a quieter feel we may have some activity I'm not concerned about it based on our discussion but frankly we haven't heard from the applicant how they're envisioning it and they might say it's not even going to be open at night so I I don't think it's a question in my place to ask I I don't I think that's a that's a a bu law question that would be that would cover residents across Ashland in any type of living situation and us propos are are are
091what are they chattering about now [Laughter] sometimes someone's mic is on what being proposed is is is um is legal by by by right so I think it's kind of a mood point the the the Commerce that exists now there is closer to the houses in the back than this one is going to yeah because it's Rees back into I'm I'm fine I just wanted to talk through it because it is different and we haven't had a rooftop access building in Downtown before so I just didn't want us to not think it through and be surprised as someone who's been to Rooftop apartments in Boston they are louder they tend to be more urban and this is different for a very Suburban environment all right all right well let's leave it at that for now
092if we're obviously like I said this our first pass through I think it's a great first pass so but if you know we're going to be going through it again and if anyone has comments they can bring them up at that time let's get through these two items then we'll wrap things up for the night um though I did say I'd allow public comment so I will um item K the site plan will shall comply with all zoning requirements for parking loading signage dimensions and environmental performance stand standards and all other provisions of this bylaw um I think some of those things obviously we have gone through parking loading um with uh with gcg signing signage was kind of a a little bit out there because we haven't uh I think the design Review Committee
093weighed in a little bit with that or maybe we were just looking at the standard dimensions um um that were on the drawings environmental performance we know it's going to be all electric that was already proposed um otherwise see me it's it's zoning and building code um does anyone else have anything else in there think it compx okay um item L the site plan shall be consistent with the objectives of the comprehensive plan oh and all other applicable specific plans adopted by the planning so when's that comp plan getting done well it could be it could be our current plan which is the prior one 2003 I don't think we need a new one for this but we do seem correct me if I'm wrong before I started in the planning board or as I
094started there was a rezoning if you will of component of downtown so I think we can say that we're we are developing downtown it's consistent with the planning board's plan to make the downtown vibrant because we seem to be doing that well it does as I maybe it ties into what I said earlier about it really looking carefully at this form based code and I think doing a a decent job at trying to apply that to the site so any c okay can add more later obviously if okay Trisha did you mean to also do the the mandatory findings for special permit tonight I don't know if you meant to go also go through those or just I was just I was just focusing on the criteria for for tonight um and given that the
095time that we're at I think it's a good ending time I will open up this for public comment on 9 to 49 Main Street 3 minutes a person and one time to the mon 9 49 Homer oh 9 to 49 Homer everything is on Main Street to me I do that all the time first up Mr marck Don Mr Mar Dr Sony at the microphone in the room can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address Dr Sony unmuted sounds like you're trying to upgrade and have in place it's historical and reasonable contents of what there is and what there is but it seems like it might be a little bit of a easier time they got to get him get um proceed with it to go on but it seems like it
096could be complicated in the very beginning but it also sounds like you're trying to compromise with whoever is going to be using these yes or no this is going to be a compromise for every developer that comes in maybe you can talk it out with him him her whatever was going to be put there and this one on uh Homer this is going to be a u this is what we're looking at can we work with you for this that's my question I don't think I have a yes no answer for you mark so sorry I'll take the comment but I I don't have an answer okay the comment is um I was looking at it a couple times too when I have one thank you mention in a form based code you are welcome
097uh the second person we have two up three hers in the uh on on the virtual Zoom meeting uh first and foremost uh Charlie zudo um please unmute yourself and state your name and address ISO Newton Mass I just want you to know I own a few buildings that do have the roof decks we do not allow people to light fireworks off on the roof deex and it's actually illegal and we we will put a time restriction on it so nobody can be up on the roof Tex partying or anything like that that's too bad for them but good good for us all right and it is also a residential development and we got to take in consideration thank you thank you thank you JY uh second person with their hand up is Carmelo Carmelo
098can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address good evening everybody thank you my name is Camilo Pia I live in three Treasure Way um I just simply want to talk in support of the development um I think that is something that the town desperately needs which is a walkable downtown with more businesses that um help spread the fisal load uh more residents and more businesses helping us with our uh tax obligations while um aligning ourselves with what has been discussed so far in enan Ashland which is having a downtown that's more pedestrian friendly that has active businesses um and that in itself it means basically beautifying our downtown uh taking what is now a very underused parcel uh full of parking uh into something that provid it's also a very much needed
099supply of housing um while providing businesses uh so I want to thank you for the time that you take as the planning board to discuss this and thank you for giving us the opportunity to talk about this so um thank you that's it thank you uh next uh Kevin moak Kevin can you please state your name and address hi uh this is Kevin Moet I'm on at 95 pin Hill Road um I just wanted to U well first of all I think this has been been a great discussion to listen into and um I just wanted to point something out to the planning board that I noticed that uh the Transformer was being discussed and that was something that we had hadn't reviewed in the design and review committee meetings and I know that the
100the building is going to be all electric as was mentioned during this meeting and I think the Transformer might be under sized and could potentially be much larger with an all electric building and that raises just concerns about screening and location and uh could impact the site plan so I just wanted to raise that as a something that should be thought about and considered thank you thank you Kevin and our last comment for the night uh Joan can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address Jon g fratty wsha Road and um full disclosure I on the historical commission and I've heard several comments that these that this area was not um historical and I just wanted to comment that it is I believe it is going to have to come before the
101historical commission for that um for that determination and um I also I also like the comments about um the noise of deliveries I mean I think I I I get that maybe it wasn't part didn't need to be a part of that but I think it is something that needs to be thought of because people are going to be living above it so putting some kind of restriction on deliveries is probably probably makes some sense um those are my comments thank you thank you Joan all right I think um if there's no other comments I think we are wrapping up our time on 9 to 49 Homer Avenue uh for this evening um so obviously we are continuing and um so because we have a lot more information to go through but this is a
102great start so where where are we going on this one uh I'm going to go to the next meeting um and that date is going to Fe be February 8th and I believe our date our final date on this project is March March 1st is it March 1st March 1st okay so we'll see where we are at Mark sha and cor then okay yeah we have two meetings in February uh and to to move all items along okay so we'll we'll deal with that when we get there all right so um we look you look like you're ready for something Kate just keep us moving please I make a motion that 9 to 49 Homer Avenue site plan and special permit application be continued till February 8th and a second I'll second that roll call
103vote depai an minitz i Marcel I Katherine Jers I and Trisha Kendall I that is continued until February 8th thank you to the applicants and to all the people who gave public comment all right next on our agenda is um our second public hearing this is the initial public hearing for 151 Main Street that is the um old uh fire station and um Peter did you need to read this into the the records uh yes just to to start off I do need to read this into the record so please bear with me the planning board will hear a petition of Ashlin Brewing LLC doing businesses Clover Road Brewing requesting site plan review and uh design review plans per chapter 48 section six of the Massachusetts zoning act chapter 28 282 of ashon zoning bylaws
104section 9.6 design plan review and 9.4 site plan review the applicant proposes a excuse me the applicant is proposing to create a 99 seat Tap Room with uh within the former Main Street Fire Station seasonal outdoor seating area or beer garden will be located in the parking lot uh protected by barriers the parking lot is excuse me a parking area on the right side of the building shall be designated for a food truck the overall project will develop 2,238 square feet foot excuse me Tap Room an Adaptive reuse of the existing building uh plans excuse me work will consist uh will the work will consist of exterior improvements pedestrian safety building upgrades and Landscaping improvements the property is located at 151 Main Street assessors map 14 Lot 84 and is within the the zoning uh
105excuse me it's within the base zoning District known as downtown Commerce and also is within the overlay add zoning District uh all material was uh submitted to the Plenty board and available online to get if I may please um obviously we're the applicant here tonight um and I do want to just note that uh ashen's economic development director also uh is is available to speak and to introduce the uh the project uh from a standpoint of the town in the process that the town went through uh in meeting Clover R Brewing um and um I would say kind of setting up this project to where it is today I I think that would be a good place to start to kind of understand the history it is a little bit of a different project than
106than we usually deal with great to unmute this please uh yeah so I would like to introduce uh Beth Reynolds uh ashon economic development director you do not have you don't unmute the screen you uh it's the it's the it's the um microphone in front of you oh hi thanks for having us here tonight um glad to be in front of you finally I feel like this has been a very long process um we went to town meeting in May and here we are um in January so um I just am here tonight to introduce the applicant as well as just sort of give you the history of how we got here um as this is a town-owned um parcel and building and it will remain that way um and I'll kind of go into
107detail about that so um I'm going to introduce you tonight to the owners of clover Road um John malun um is one of the owners and he and I spoke over the phone um I think right before last summer last season at The Corner Spot he was calling to inquire about using the corner spot as a popup GE Garden um those have been very popular in town for the past five six years um and so they were interested in that and at the same time it just happened to be that we were talking about the ReUse of the police and fire stations downtown as the public safety building was completing uh was almost at completion and we were trying to figure out what to do with those two with those two pieces um those two
108buildings it is one parel I think that's why I'm like dripping up my words because it's important for you to know that it is one parel with the two um so John when John heard of the RFI he thought well you know we were going to do these pop-ups permanent sounds lovely as well um and they were looking for expansion so the timing just happened to be um perfect for this um so to go back um as to the history of it is in the fall of 2022 um with the completion coming up we were looking at what to do with this so we wanted to make sure that we were very thorough and transparent um with the town and find out what the community wants so we put RFI as far as I know
109the town of Ash has never done a request for um interest is what that's called so the RFI was basically to find out what people wanted what do you want down where where are we going um and so that went out for um the two buildings on the one parcel the document had several requirements the exterior of the fire station was to be preserved for historic purposes it could not incl residential housing it was only to be used for commercial use the town wanted additional public parking in the area to support the increase of commercial use in downtown and the use was to encourage an active and vibrant space so the RFI went out for eight weeks three defa answered that RFI um with some potential ideas so then we took those three ideas we
110presented them at a public forum and we sent out a community survey and the community survey kind of described the three potential ideas and it came back resoundingly that it was a people wanted the The Tap Room they wanted a brewery Downtown um to give that vibrancy so it was also found out during that um Gathering of information that they did not want to sell the property they wanted to lease it so the town wasn't ready to get rid of that um ownership so from there we took that information that we had gathered from the town and we created an RFP a request for proposal and that was focused on the vibrancy of The Proposal what the prop what the vibrancy would bring for downtown um and the feasibility um and the consistency with our
111Downtown Vision so we put that RFP out for a few months and one proposal came in and that was Clover Road um so we had uh formed a committee of different residents in town um so the committee met and this was their purpose was to review the rfps that came in so that it wasn't you know it was a very diverse open um group and they looked at the proposal they reviewed the proposal they agreed that it would be a great fit for Ashland and it was recommended to the select board and then it was put on town meeting on May 3rd 2023 where the residents voted to support the project so since then the Clover Road team has signed a lease with the town uh for years with the option to extend no more
112than 30 um they're responsible for improvements it's so they're getting it as is um and they're they're responsible for any improvements inside and immediately outside but we are still responsible for the parking lot so the town gpw will still be doing snow removal for this property um and then I guess at this point I think that's sort of how we've gotten here um it's been a pleasure working um with these individuals they have really um they did do a couple popups um over the summer months they've met a lot of residents they've made a name for themselves here um they've made a lot of good connections people seem very resp respective um receptive and um excited for them to come here is what that's what I've heard of this so um I am going to
113introduce them now um and they will kind of take it from here and kind of tell you about the project any questions for me on the process do we have a sense of how long the lease is like how does that work y it's five years not and then if they can extend for five year increments not to exceed 30 do they have to come back to us for extension no so when it's time to extend they bring it to the select board with the town yeah it's just Town Town one one follow question you said that the parcel has the two buildings was a determination what to do with the police uh building is that not part of this project at all this project so that's going to remain for now that where it
114is right working on ideas for that currently um but this has been kind of focus just to get this one going and then and then we'll take the next step to do that one does the lease clarify that if there's like a change of use they would come back to us like is the lease going to be like in five years if the lease is renewed could could they change how they use the space okay it is only for this use it is described their use is described thanks Beth bu ideas for us it's a beautiful building so yeah in that all St so so um Jamie John and Allen um are all co-owners of um Clover Road brewing in Hudson they will continue to brew their beer only in Hudson and just serve it
115in the T room here so there will be no Brewing of beer in Ashland um it's the Serv of it and then they are looking at liquor licenses that um could hopefully provide wine and other Spirits so um so yeah so I'm going to inv Jamie I think up to kind of get you started and tell you them a littleit she can tell you a little thanks such a good job I want to keep her spokesperson here I'm Jamie M I'm one third Clover Road here so we purchased a brewery in summer of 2022 ground effect in hson and we renovated it and we opened in September um so we are new in um in Hudson so we currently have a brewery and chat room in Hudson and um what we realized pretty quickly we
116can't hear her in the audience just to let you know thank you don't I yeah oh oh I see a green light okay thanks I don't have an IT background so thanks for helping me with that Peter okay so what we learned pretty quickly in Hudson was that we can brew a lot of beer so in the brewery industry you have two models to scale you can do distribution or you can do a Tap Room Tap Room model and um once you get to know us um you learn pretty quickly we are community- based we have a very large outreach program um and we like to focus on customers and so distribution is not a part of our model it's not currently and it's not in the near future and so we really wanted to
117focus on The Tap Room model so we started to look at beer gardens Beth kind of went that into that a little bit and 151 Main Street kind of came to be so what we do in Hudson is pretty much I wouldn't want to say carbon copy but it's very close to what we want to do in Ashlin because it's near and dear to who we are and what we believe in it's a community space that yes we're a brewery but it's also a transitional space that people can come and enjoy the town enjoy the downtown and um have different things so we have a lot of community events we have a lot of um we bring in local vendors and we like to kind of mix and match and have things for families have
118things for couples have things for just men just female really kind of just run the gamut so we have yoga we have Dart leag we have flower classes we have run club we have open mic um there are a lot of things that we try and do to really just bring everyone together and I would say that our space is Transitional and it's very focused on where we are and and who we are um so what we plan to do is really light Renovations I don't know Peter if you can pull up um the get the renderings the renderings okay so what we plan on doing is keeping the historic characteristics of the building inside and out and we really do want to focus on the strong care characteristics this right now is the ex
119um is the side so do we maybe have the front maybe we should start with the front we really want to preserve the character um and there we go so um in the front we want to do a small patio oh good John can start talking about this too he's up here too um so we really want to do um a small patio in the front and on the side and as you can see um you know safety being on the the Main Street and the sidewalk those are those are going to be Jersey barriers um we actually currently have those in Hudson right now hold on so what you guys are looking at now that is going to be a retaining wall and we're going to back fill it with cement so it'll be
120nice flat there's that slope as you come out of there so that's not a great spot and it's actually not super conducive to seating because the main Street's so busy um that what we're likely going to do to that is some seats but more likely cornhole and things like that for gaming so that's why we have the boxes in front of the jersey barrier too uh so no kids as the summertime three Bay garage doors they're not just going to run out into the Main Street the the retaining wall will prevent that along with the flower back boxes from that on the front side um so as we envision it in the summertime those doors are open music's out people are outside playing cornhole having a good time relaxing and uh kids and families are
121Milling about probably going to get ice cream from Subzero is that it and on the right hand side which was the first which was the first one that is where the seating is going to be because it's off of the road and there's some natural uh well not natural but there's a barrier there's a sound barrier there now with the plantings uh to help kill some of the the downtown traffic noise so on that right hand side those planter boxes will have Jersey barriers underneath them um and what we did in Hudson and we'd like to do here is I wrapped them in Cedar with the aluminum so that way they're lightweight and we can lift and remove them in the winter time to allow people to park closer to the building and not truck
122across the the uh parking lot get as close as possible so winter time put them away summertime back out let's party uh the whole point of the project actually for us too is is the way the fire station looks I mean it's great and when we when we show people it like like oh this is what we're doing and this is they're like that's awesome that's amazing uh so we're really going to do our best to make sure that the station itself says the focal point of of the design that we don't really touch much of it frankly uh and even on the inside and the construction of that it's pretty I would describe it as um minimal renovation uh we have to add two bathrooms but when you think about I don't know how
123many beer drinkers are are here but a tap room is pretty open there's not a lot to it and part of the reason for that is the freedom of movement to go from one table to another or different activities to things like that so the interior of the tap room is we're going to do our best to incorporate some of the history of the building into the tap room but the the actual renovation and construction is is pretty straightforward and light we're going to put in a bar and tables and two bathrooms um hopefully soon okay anything else you guys want to add I don't know did I miss anything no not necessarily yeah not telling um I guess I'll open it up to any questions from the board very quick question is the production
124happening on site or in Hudson in Hudson so we we have um we have big tanks like Jamie was saying like we we can never produce enough beer to sell out of Hudson like it's just it's not feasable so we have all this excess capacity this what we chose to do and just out of curiosity are because you've run you've had this happen in Hudson already can can you give us a sense of employment opportunities to the local community uh what does that look like yeah that's a good question um so I think we employ about 12 people right now um you know it depends how busy we get the busier we are the more people we hire um and seasonally we add to it as well so in the summer we have had to
125add um seasonal employment and when we do beer gardens we've also had to include people and I think we've also had luck hiring locals um so right now most of our I would say 80% of our bartenders live within 10 minutes of our current Brewery now um which helps us out when either the weather's bad or we need extra help or something so but also get to know the customers get to know the community also help us the the other part aside from employment is the cross pollination of the businesses so um like Jamie mentioned we do yoga that's with the local studio in town right uh we do a candl making class that company is in the next town over but uh geez what we've done the floral company is in Hudson yeah um
126so this cross cross promotion we've had uh two restaurants that have physical locations bring their food trucks into the the the brewery um so I imagine it' be a lot of the same stuff here cross pollination of businesses it's one handwash and the other really also too but um we also work with the Hudson rotary club for volunteer so we have a lot of volunteer events um because that's obviously um Community Based and really important to people and important to us um and so getting involved with those um aspects too in Ashland and having those organizations come in that would be great too um I was just going to say as a followup you mentioned the focus on um the community space if you will how is it just out of curiosity is there like
127a dedicated community space inside or is it more within the open space of yeah it's more within the so the best bues in my opinion is are the ones that are that do a great job incorporating with the community but they don't have a designated community space but it might be that you're doing a fundraiser uh to support something in town uh or like we have the Hudson Rotary Club that's doing an event here um we've done charity fundra raisers for just people who want to host and we just shut the bre down for that um it's more along that line not this space in it's not a big building um to accommodate like ideal that'd be great but not not yeah and I think one of the reasons why we and I use the
128term community so strong is because we want people to walk into the tap room and have it feel like it's their an extension of their living room an extension of somewhere that they want to be and feel very comfortable um we're very strong with not being a restaurant you don't have to stay in your seat you you know we're we're not going to be strict about you know this is your four chairs and you can only stay here we want you to get up we want people to talk to each other we want people to feel like this is an extension of their own space so that's why we use the term community so strongly thank you other questions at at your Hudson location I know you mentioned um that you do food trucks and
129you've shown that that's the idea here I think that's there's probably like a bit of a seasonal component to that it's not super like it's year round food oh really oh that's amazing okay so one of the questions I was going to ask is and in Hudson are you guys open to I mean I've been to a lot of tap rooms where um you can order from anywhere nearby any local restaurants to to bring in food is that the kind of thing that you do in Hudson that would be great for our restaurants in town yep y same idea uh we don't discriminate we'll have a light food menu it'll be pretzels and and buffalo chicken dip but that's not a meal but if someone wanted to do carry out from one of the existing
130restaurants in town I mean we look at them and judge them but they got it it's a it's a cool feel and I think it's a great thing for like you said the cross pollination with businesses it's it's another opportunity okay yeah yeah no people tend to like that um you know you're just not I don't care where you get your food from bring it in and have a good time got it awesome thank you I have just to two two quick questions and there's just nothing not to like about this idea and and the approach and the approach to doing this in this building it seems perfect to me but of course it I always go towards the the architecture right so it it it it make I think what you're doing with with
131the entrance makes total sense and and you'll use it however the business works it seems to me I I I think that the front of the building to me is kind of a great place for for for the sitting area and the side maybe would be for the games but that's something for you to think about it because it's next to those big doors uh you're going to change the doors and it it seems like I don't know the environment in the beginning that was our initial intent was the front um and that's not to say that we won't revisit that um or the other thing that happened is we learned the budget to redo the front is we'd have to rip up all the um existing cement uh yeah it was just but you're
132going to back feel in front on top of the ramp right uh no you'd have to rip everything out first put in a new retaining wall it it turned into a to do it so our initial intent was to extend that that uh like flat flat but take it out like 15 20 ft so as it currently exist and and then back fill that and make it one large seating area which you may do but then after I spent spent a day there uh with the doors open and just kind of hanging out and seeing what the traffic patterns were like and things like that and I was like you know what let's revisit that and okay no that's fine I I I hope you reconsider if but but it takes me to to the
133next to the next part I I I I think that however you do that and you will need a retaining like you're showing here but if that Pao is done not just you say we're just going to f with cement ideally I hope it would be something a little nicer than that oh yeah if the patio is is a nicely done patio I think it would be conducive to that so but think about it because I I think it's it's it's a great spot and with planting and and and screening it could it happens in all all the urban urban spaces I do I think it's important to note though that there are there is like an easement there um the Culvert goes sort of like through towards the police station so we do have
134to be mindful of how far they come out that was another a reason to no I'm just talking generically it just the picture shows I see this picture it just I want to drink a beer right there too how so shady but but on the and and the other question is you're going to do some mile renovation very little work you looks like you're going to change the doors and put some bathrooms and and that so it's a pretty old building so are you going to be responsible for a batment of of hasmat uh when you do your work or is the town going to be responsible for that uh they believe that's our responsibility okay cuz likely you will find some something in a building of looking forward to it yeah okay other questions
135um I had sent a question for Peter that um to try to get a copy of the lease I think we should have that when we're looking at the whole um application once I uh once I get that I'll obviously I'll send that out to everybody awesome DEA good um I was just wondering what is happening what happens in front of that retaining wall uh now that it's it's not it's not placed right on the sidewalk it's back there's an easement you said that has to be but what what happens in there is it just a wider does it stay as is it is it just a wider sidewalk yeah okay so there is no sidewalk there so if you remember when we did the downtown project the sidewalk so that was still remained a
136driveway um so we haven't down the road Trisha honestly it would be great if maybe we do think about that and taking that a sidewalk but I might be just Wai and see what happens a little bit with the success of the brewery and okay uh I think yeah when you dream I I kind of have the same dream as Marcel where it's more of a patio area and we're pushing pushing it out a little bit and the if the further you go out with it the higher the retaining wall has to be maybe there's some benches in front of the retaining wall it's a nice seating area with people behind it I can see that Vision but not not day one Ju Just just to to to up to your dreams you know that
137there are very light systems on pedestals that you could put and you don't have to build anything and they're removable so when you leave you can take them out so that would be a way to make a flat surface on with pedestals that are adjustable there are assistance for that and you will get your patio without having to spend I looked at that it was it was I was shocked I was like oh my God is that what you used to do and she suggested that for the side patio uh cuz they do look nice and then I looked at it and I was like oh my God it was like uh like a 4x4 section was $25,000 or something it was absurd yeah if you got a guy or one that fell off the
138back of a truck I'm open okay just a few things Logistics the um so the main door is the one on the first on the left there is that is that right there's there's two entrances the one on the left and then on the other one we're going to have to put in you can't kind of see you kind see through there um the double door there so so that's actually the main door of the double door where you I mean the whatever is the most functional is going to be the main one but uh as I Envision it you know the parking lot's on that side so most people okay go that way so you can come in either way yep and the um the colors I know it said in your documentation that
139the colors that you that you're showing are your logo colors the colors um okay yeah and I mean I like the have you done that I haven't been to the store in Hudson did you do that type of um painting there as well or is that something new for this project the large that's new yeah you're talking about the the left hand side the clo going down the other side of the building as well yeah no that'll be new um we're going to have sign logic who's based out of Hudson hopefully help us with that and um yeah I mean I like it I think it's it's amazing how such a just signage can kind really dress up that exterior I noted in your documentation that it's you know lease doesn't work out you're out
140of here we hate Ashland we're gone that it it's possible to take the to take it off building and can I just ask a follow question to that um who would take it off hopefully you guys will never have to take it off but if you do let's say this list does not go on forever is that something that you would do or the town does I would imagine it would be the town just like it we treated the lease like a standard commercial lease um no different so if we left our our place in hson the town would take care of all right well we you know would you guys be open to adding like two things one is I love this project and how it preserves the the speaking of historic projects on
141site review that are truly that example that we were discussing earlier love that um my only kind of thought is it's still owned by the public and I don't necessarily see that right and so my only question is is there a way to have a plaque that sort of recognizes hey this is a what's the history of the fire station when was it in use that this building continues to be publicly owned that the public has welcom into the building sort of a connection to our history to recognize that hey this is still a public resource what are your thoughts on that just a small that recognizes that so that we don't forget if you will that it's still a publicly owned project sure and we can recognize our history and connection to it from
142that perspective not yeah hopefully if we're doing it right everybody knows that um so yes totally it it would seem that something like that might be placed on the town to work with the new business owner sorry who who was that excuse me uh Ellen when you do speak up you have to raise your hand and you'll be called on during public comment thank you um yeah so does anyone have any anyone have any follow-up comments so this for us is um this is obviously a site plan review we're very familiar with those criteria now um we won't be going through them this evening but it also the project then is also um uh eligible for design plan review um with the design Review Committee that is correct so just to give everyone uh from
143a logistical standpoint uh this the applicant is going to design review well usually we send them there correct the Plenty board sends them to design review uh and the next design review would happen to be February 1st a week from this Thursday um and uh and so that is just the the process okay so before we get there I um do want to open it up for public comment so if you well I will let Peter manage that so with that said um and if there's nobody in the room I will go to zoom um first uh but please uh the First with their hand up is Helen Nicole Helen can you please state your name and address hi yes Helen Nicole for Elliot Circle um I'm on the um histor commission and I I
144have to say I I I am pleased uh mostly with the way the building looks I'm I'm very very happy to hear that there is only live Renovations going to to be happening inside as well the question I have though I'm noticing on that right right side patio there's a door double door and uh that's that's a change to the outside of the building which you know we had written in some restrictions about not changing the outside of the building however I do remember we did discuss with Beth um the building becoming 88 compliant uh which I think they they had talked about needing a door but what my question is is why does it need to be that door why can't those front doors be used um to make an ada8 compliance so that
145they don't need to take out a section of that wall uh there's some functionality to that so in order to be ADA Compliant you have to be able to get direct access to the bar and to the B bathrooms um so that when we looked at it with the architect that was the spot that he determined would be the best for it I mean I wish we didn't have to put a door there save money but we do and so that's that's the spot the architect determined would be best for to meet all the Ada compliances okay I I'm still not sure though that I understand why so that door to me is around the corner from three large doors I and I and I have to tell you I do love this whole project
146I think it's it's a great addition to Ashland um I have no dispute there but I just I really want to understand in my mind why that door needs to be there why those three large doors don't work I don't know that was what the architect recommended and we just went with it that way and you said this is the best way to do it for for our goals and that's what other three large doors she's talking about taking the garage those aren't considered though no no but you could put a double door there so she's saying the other thing that would happen to actually I do know the answer to this so if we did that we would have to then reframe out right you'd have to frame out the garage door add a
147double door in there put back in the brick to make it look historical and like it like it is and you're just talking about different scopes of a project so one is the path of least resistance which is frankly what we did uh and the other one turns into a much bigger project and then you're going to also have to try to match in the brick with the pre-existing stuff and you might end up with with something that you just don't really like um that's a good question though took me a minute to think about that one yeah thank you sorry did you have more yeah no I just I just wanted to clarify that that I just was trying to understand why why that was so thank you no no sorry about that it
148took me a minute to jog there's been a lot of steps to the project and I was like I had to think about that one and I just question I just wanted to add in that it it it was a good question because you know I didn't even notice that that was a different door but um but I'm much more concerned for me that the front remains as pristine as possible with the three doors and versus something happening to the side to allow it to have another life so um I was say exactly that Trisha I think the characteristic look of three big you know fire station doors messing with one of those would really change the character of it from my perspective as absolutely in terms of accessibility the the this that you have
149there uh it's is not compliant with what M requires to be able to access to a door you would have to create was part of it too that would change the front of the building which is worse yeah yeah there's a couple that's that's right too um yeah okay go on to public comment thank you uh public comment number two Caro can you please introduce yourself with your name and address hello again uh C Pia from three Treasure Way I I just simply wanted to show um my support and excitement about this project I think the way you guys have uh preserved the building and um try to preserve uh the type of architecture and some of the details even with the sist that you are proposing I think it's exciting um the only question
150would be how soon so thank you so much hopefully soon yeah what what kind of beer is on special right that's the question that's the real question noticed your application said you know that it would be utilized for politicians to go during election time I'm like wow this was really written for us right you were like we're going to write this for for the planning board thank you for noticing oh of course yeah uh the last uh raised hand uh can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address hi there I'm Suzanna Magnuson I live at 28 voyagers Lane um I also would like to Second the prior comment that I'm really excited to see this business coming to Ashland and particularly excited about the busino business cooperation um that you plan on
151doing because I could see a lot of the smaller businesses about three or four came to mind as you were talking um that just seemed like they would fit you would fit right in with our you know Town's goals so I'm just very excited about that possibility um I also have uh a little personal question which is my husband is an avid musician a Bluegrass musician and we're wondering if you in the Hudson location ever do allow Jam space to happen where friends just come and bring their instruments and play music uh so actually tonight we have an open mic night uh at The Tap Room in Hudson um so we do that once a month the last Thursday of every month is open mic night yeah so I don't know if it'll quite be
152a full Jam space cuz uh it probably wouldn't be the spot for a full band to come in just the Acoustics of that building would be a little tough in the spacing but we do intend to have live music and we would be open to I think we'd probably end up doing an open mic night again it's really been a nice nice hit fantastic thank you yeah good question who are the businesses yeah right I don't see any other questions from board in the room public comment oh is there any public comment in the room sorry oh sorry I'm used to the hands raised now okay thank you sorry welcome again welcome the ashon I have probably couple questions and a concern with the uh can you put up the um building this way my
153question is going to be verified okay first it's going to be about the historical facade that's not going to be touched at all hopefully and the door down to the left that's a single Ada up um excuse me Ada handicap door that's going to stay yes or no y okay um inside ex inside interior the ground floor is going to be worked on going to be be as what it is bar seeden is anything going to happen to the second floor inside uh no so the town is going to use a portion of the second floor for storage uh and then we did lease a portion of the second floor but the primary function there is Storage and you know who knows one day but we have no short-term plans for the area there okay
154so it's ground floor only then yep and the uh the wall there going across and to the as facing left side the luners build the next door is a narrow area you got seedan on that side yes or no uh no no it's the right side so it's okay and that's going to be used with the spacing we'll see and then on the easement how many how many cards are you expecting maybe Park in the easement uh is the eement the main parking lot no there's no parking the eement is um it no that's just underground the Culvert goes underground like right on that corner there's 20 spots in the parking lot so it's a municipal lot oh so okay yeah but but they have 18 in their lease so in their lease they're guaranteed
15518 for their business okay and in front of the wall itself whether the uh Mouse is what's that going to be hopefully used as nothing uh not in the short term it's uh what we touched on right now it's uh frankly it's dead space um maybe one day that'll change but in the short term that space will just look very similar to how it does now okay and last one is is is out is out of the range of the planet boys sorry about that but I got to ask it's alcohol serve are your servers going to be tip certified our servers are tip certified now okay thank you yeah question is there any other public comment from the room probably not not I don't see any other hands raised online so I guess I
156would raise the question to the planning board if we are then ready to send this to the design Review Committee for their review we typically narrow the the scope to to to specific things that are you know gerain to the project are we going to to to have something like that here or it would be more of a generic uh review by I think in this um I I can go briefly through them this is looking at the design criteria for um for the design Review Committee as listed in .6. 7 so most of these again are not applicable um landscape which in this in this definition of landscape is about minimizing tree and soil removal obviously that's not going to happen um uh building orientation height none of those things we can change roof
157slope we can't change scale we can't change so the only things really are um materials textures and color [Music] um open space which includes landscape um I think they have some information about landscape obviously and their written documentation Heritage which is about historic structures pedestrian access um I I think I think there those are the applicable so the one thing I thought would that would be helpful because we couldn't the delegate something to design review for additional perspective to me the only thing that we may want to do as an as an exercise in consistency is there is an outdoor space I remember when we handled other outdoor spaces in restaurants or this types of things we had some factors that we looked at at Matzi and um tjs so we may want to find
158those factors and ask design review to kind of confirm that all the factors have been addressed it might be a good efficient way to delegate a task so that they can come back and say yes check check check everything outdoor related as far as the the design if you will of the outdoor spaces is done and it might save us time you're talking about the things that we looked at for outdoor seating that started with covid but then maybe continued on after that time ex yeah just as a way to save us time because it's a it's a very check oriented thing that we've done twice we could they could review that list maybe from our prior notes and just cut some time for us to do other things yeah I think that's fair and
159I think it's similar to um similar to um Mazi when we we passed on that Chase Bank you know that they'll also look at this in terms of the sustainability issues related to these items um um that are that are on the list such as um I'm not not sure even if native plants make as much sense because they're replanted every season right they're not growing in the ground so I'm not sure uh those things even make as much of a difference but um but there may be other things on that that do I mean you brought up the the the um environmental stuff or you know I didn't think about that I don't know if we want to delegate that to them or or have the applicant walk through what Renovations of any are
160going to be done to the space to make it more closer to you know our Net Zero goals or anything like that we may want to explore that first as a board before we delegate but it might be worthwhile to I don't know if the lease already covers it maybe Beth has some information we we have to remember that the planning board purview does not extend to the inside of the building or the function of the inside of the outside of the building like or in general kind of what the I understand it's site site plan review but it is also um I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what it is a public space too I think it really doesn't apply and because that I mean it's not that they are adding
161a commercial kitchen that they're not even doing the Brewing here in house this is really a transitory exchange of goods and services I I don't think there's much to it that would be toward the n z or plan or the building's not even touched for the most part or even owned by them it yeah it's just the lease so um so essentially we're the landlord right like we the town are are are relasing it yeah I totally get it it belongs to us and so it's up to us to kind of maintain it in a certain yeah that would be the responsibility of the Town what they're going and so and so I can see that being kind of it I I would have to think harder as to whether that's our jurisdiction or the
162town's a negotiating lease but it feels like a great area where um I I am curious what obligations do we have when we own that building to try to move it towards w a more environmentally responsible direction as we lease it to someone for 5 years which 10 which could become 15 that's all I'm just thinking ahead because 15 years from now we may have a different expectation of that space as far as being environmentally consistent with our goals and we have to think about that now when we're approving the project I believe that at Springtown meeting there was some a bylaw passed about uh Energy Efficiency in town bu building but let's go we really need the lease right because a lot of times commercial leases they have to take care of everything I
163haven't seen it right so we we we do have to take care of yeah that's a very common we don't do anything right we probably pay the taxes you're right we pay we have to we have to look at that before we get too far and that that's only maybe a small glitch about design review because that does bring up lighting like I I apologize I didn't scrub the notes and the drawings no wores um um but if if there's any exterior lighting um and that might be if it's on the building we want to probably have the design review look at that kind of thing yeah I think I think they can yeah I think that's fair sorry wait so do you want so do you want a drawing of the building with the
164existing because the lighting isn't changing it's that's lit up like a Christmas tree out there um so there's lights on the building existing now that they're not changing and then there's lights on the um police St yeah police station that if something happens to that building we would then replace that to to replace those not yeah okay and I didn't like there I didn't get to read like all the notes in the drawing so like there's no new Lighting on the patio or anything that kind of stuff pretty pretty well lit now you don't need anything no but I mean we might be and just didn't you know like any project you don't think of everything so maybe we get there and we're like you know what we do lights so and and that's fine
165then we probably just put that a condition if it does it has to come back right if if there's exterior lighting on the patio or something yeah I think if there's if there's something if there's exterior lighting that may affect I'm not sure what in that area but then it may need it may need to come back but yeah we want to make sure I mean we still own the parking lot and then we still own the building right we want to make sure everybody is safe so we also have it's important for you to know too that the town is um maintaining insurance on that building and they also have their own insurance as well so I think there's so much Insurance there's so much Insurance there's so much all right so Peter has
166requested a copy of the lease that yeah once I get that obviously I'll send it I'll sa you know ASAP does but does any of that discussion inhibit prohibit us from letting designer rep look at it no it sounds like we're going to send it to design review for the consistency with Mozy and TJ's and maybe whatever lights outside that you know of did I understand that correctly no only if it's modified oh right now change got it never mind so it's just the out outdoor space design part of keeping the building as it is you know keeping the lighting so okay so um so I guess we will look for um a motion I will make a motion that the that 151 Main Street um is sent to the design Review Committee for for
167their review for um design plan review um I'll add that I'm kind of really modifying my thing here but that Marcel and I can put together if no objections we can put to another memo if anyone else wants to work on it I'm sure we're both okay with that but we could put together a simil memo just for consistency that includes what we talked about here and also includes the um outdoor seating which I know I have somewhere so I think that's all we're doing we're just delegating for the outdoor seating right the other criteria thater got it okay but it's pretty straightforward for the most part I'll make a motion to allow Marcelo and Trisha to do as planned as proposed and to send it to design review and to send it to design
168review we'll do it at the same time is there a second second and roll call vote I I Catherine Jers and Trish Kendall I so off you go to design review thank you right and thank you I appreciate your time thank you so much thank you just to continue the public hearing obviously desire review right however we got to think about when they're going to come back to us so our next meeting will be on February 8 that seems reasonable is that too quick of a turnaround for for design review when is there next meeting is there like February 1st that means you guys have a lot of they're going to be on February 1st and then the the month of February there's actually 29 days um and there's fourth there's five Thursdays and so
169we're actually going to meet the the excuse me we're going to meet the second Thursday which is the eth then we're going to me we're going to meet the 5ifth Thursday the 29th we're going to we moved our meeting which would normally fall on the 22nd however due to school vacation week we all agreed that it would be best to move it to the 29th when do we have 320 coming back 320 is going to be coming back it's a great question I believe it's February 8th so it's a little it's a little tight but none of them none of them it shouldn't be heavy lifts is what I'm it shouldn't be it shouldn't be and it's not exactly the same scale as Mazi yeah um and not even TJ right like there was a
170lot more construction for even for the TJ outdoor seating this is very very minimal um so this should not hopefully doesn't go around redesigning the whole project but well why don't we why don't we put them the three of them for February 8th but nothing else no no no visitors no no forums no nothing else on that date perfect okay and we'll be efficient about I mean if design review is not ready we could still move this project along meaning like right we could start thinking about the factors and sure yeah so it's not like if they're for some reason if they need more time I think we can still hold hold the next piece of it yeah so we'll at least have them on our you know often things get adust adjusted as we
171go along but at least we'll have them on there you know and can push it out if if if need be for other factors all right okay I make a motion that we continue the 151 Main Street project uh site plan review to February 8th I'll second and roll call vote Anki I Marcel Aron I Catherine Jersey I and Trisha Kendall I so that's continued to February 8th all right next on our agenda way back to the beginning all right we have um to renew or to um review the application of David spera Spa yes Spa thank you um for the design Review Committee um and there's a resume in here somewhere it should be right behind oh it is yep there's a talent Bank form uh David uh Talent Bank form and then there
172is his res all right so David it's nice to see you in person see you in person as well um this is the planning board um maybe we just introduce our I guess we have our name card so you know who everybody is um why don't you just um we have your resume in front of us but why don't you just give us a short synopsis of who you are your time in Ashland and why you're interested in the design Review Committee um thank you for having me here um My Name is Davis Spa I've lived in ashin almost all my life uh moved here when I was one went to school here graduate in 96 static on that um that's better and uh then moved around a bunch um actually ended up buying the
173house I grew up in uh in bought it from my parents six years ago um when I was working at GE Healthcare in marbor it was 15minute commute and now that um I work for sorama just across in southb I have a FIV minute commute um love the town love the small community um traveled extensively but always kind of compared other places to here um and what Ashland has and it kind of always moves forward but also with Co Road in the fire station it retains its past um my background I done a plethora of different things I ended up going to culinary school I went to for Johnson and Wales when I first got out of high school here um but I didn't stay I didn't want to work back a house in a
174kitchen it wasn't my passion as people say um ended up getting a Bachelor of Science and Industrial design from Wentworth in Boston did a bunch of internships ended up working for a former Professor doing Museum design so I designed like graphic panels to a and Space Museums um worked at another firm in Boston got laid off and WR both of those places and then went and got a master's degree in an exhibition and experience design from fit in New York I worked at this small little place called The Smithsonian when I was there you might have heard of them um I worked at the American Indian Museum in New York City that Branch where most of the collection was actually stored and then they opened the museum in the mall as well um did a
175exhibit about Jimmy Hendrick and 11 other Natives and popular music that uh was in DC and it was the size of this space but then it became in New York they have the old customs house and it became 10 times bigger so my job as the intern was how do we make this thing bigger and I really loved researching like that kind of artifact and that's what kind of like really I love about design and creating is listening to what the needs are of people and then interpreting that like actually going like reading between or listening between the lines of what they're saying and coming up with something so I would do like hand sketches um you know drinking out of Brewery at with the clients for the airand space museum I did and then
176that thing I did on a napkin now sits in a museum so for to me that process is very rewarding um I worked for a bunch of firms I got my master's degree did a couple different things in design um came back actually started teaching cooking classes at serab so I was there from open to close when the Clos during covid they've reopened um but I have my own company now I formed my own company doing food uh sauces spice rubs cooking classes um and then got back into doing design with sinorama um technically in sales excuse me but I kind of take that design element when someone says here's what I want to do from my sign I have no idea what it is um I look at all the parts and pieces and
177say this is what your message is this is what you who your audience is this is what you should really be doing um and kind of seeing that light bulb whether it was about dinosaurs or spaceships and now about branding and marketing for businesses is kind of what is most rewarding to me so all right any questions for David I will say I went to high school with you I graduated in 1995 you look extremely familiar and I think you you're what what you ended up doing is far more interesting than where I I am sitting right now so good for you um you got me thinking about signage and whether we should have sent that to design review on the last project but um good okay um I guess my only question is you
178know you've been on design review for some time um I sat in on a meeting okay so they kind of like saw them um I went I misunderstood okay I did the farmers market in October and they had a booth and I met Cathy and um got conversations and the is kind of just happened so now picking back up and so uh how do you have I'm assuming you've met with them and you've watched a meeting how do you see your skill set contributing to the dynamic of that group how would you contribute to that specific team I think it comes from because of my diverse experiences and background and doing different things and looking at it from the visitor point of view which is how I viewed my role as a designer whether I
179was doing trade show exhibits or talking about dinosaurs or whatever it was what's the visitor going to see know like what's the resident now going to see um and I think I have a very objective sense to that as to stepping outside the box you know and really looking in from their point of view I think is what has allowed me to be a successful designer um and now like I think I can bring that kind of same Viewpoint to the board what were your thoughts on the design that we just saw I love that they kept the the the facade facing the street the same um I think their logo on the brick um they mentioned the sign company in Hudson use them local that's fine um so I wasn't you know for into
180that are we curious if that's painted on or in terms of removing I'm just curious how that would be done but painting the trim the awning like the flags um I think that's I think it's very simple and clean and it pays homage to it so I think there are a ton of different ways and like I've seen a bunch of different ways and I totally agree that if you started to do something with one of the doors if you blocked it off it makes it look like it's uninviting in a way yeah so the fact that they kept it I agree thank you questions no I I I would just say that uh it's it's um your your background definitely you have uh uh diverse type of experiences and and and type of work
181that you've done and I I I think it would be a pretty um fresh View and things for the committee so I I I I find him find your experience very appropriate for it thanks questions um I I guess it's an internal did did we get a um recommendation from the design review or or have yes they um um they voted on it on January 4th they can correct me if I'm wrong on January 4th and they did I miss that I'm so I apologize if I did I try to read what we get so I didn't I I don't think it came it oh okay I don't think it came why I was asking no um and I don't maybe it wasn't an email somewhere I'm maybe to I'm not sure I I watched
182the meeting so that's all um so that's how I I knew that happened and I can't remember if I saw it somewhere as well didn't want to skip that step I mean I'm I'm thrilled that people that step up that have I mean being from town and having a perspective of leaving town and all your skills I think is amazing so yeah and Amanda once Amanda has some comments I can I can definitely open up to Kathy already has her hand up to Kathy and uh and Kevin who are on there so I don't have anything to do I was going to say exactly what Kate said the perspective and the commitment to town and the experience so um why don't I open it up to Kathy and um Kevin if you and um I
183assume that's I assume that's Hannah Stein as well if anyone wanted to uh to comment on this but Kathy you can um unmute yourself hi uh thank you for uh letting me talk we U met uh David the last full Farmers Market not the Thanksgiving Market but the last one where we could have a community table and um he seemed like he would be he expressed interest in the committee he seemed like could be a good candidate he came to the um meeting um and we actually didn't do an official vote at that meeting but we did one at the following meeting um and everybody thought he would be a good fit for our committee um for all the reasons he just spoke of at the podium thank you thanks Kathy thank you um any
184other other members of the design Review Committee hi this is Hana go ahead Hana I just wanted to say um yes everything to what Kathy said um talking with David was really enlivening when we met him and we were very excited about his interest and uh we're so looking forward to him joining us and and hopefully um working on some signage projects as well as other things that come before the committee so I'm very enthusiastic and and welcome him thank you um I just have one question um for you and and you and I talked about this I think just a little briefly on the phone um as as an example the planning board in the last couple years has has gotten ourselves once in a while into a little bit of hot water because
185we go over what we're allowed to do as a planning board and we get our finger slapped a little bit once in a while and so I assume in what you do and you're working inside spaces like the Smithsonian are there's there's kind of a balance between maybe what you want to do as an artist and the restrictions that are put upon you from the outside yeah how do you find that how do you find that balance or how do you how do you work within that balance I think it's finding the Deep Common Ground like what is the overing whether it's an educational message um or a marketing message depending on like if it's a trade show booth um or now marketing a cons signage of business like what is their ultimate goal so
186I think and I hate to repeat myself in a way but taking that step back and going what is what is the Baseline thing that we really need to work on like that move forward with this project um yeah I can come up with cool sketches and renderings and stuff like that but all these aren't feasible like they they fall because of budgets or committees or the the message isn't clear or whatever it would be um and it's I think it's just part of the process in listen and I think everything listening is really key to other people um and what their message is and what they're really saying and that's part of like yeah I'm able to discern what the client is saying like I can read between those lines but also what my
187cohorts and my comrades and colleagues are doing and what they're saying um has huge value and I think some people we'll just wait to talk instead of listen to the round table um and I would just say listening and taking looking finding common ground first and then nitpicking based on budgets and our things like that thank you anyone want to put forth a motion I'll make a motion to approve the application of David spatara to the design Review Committee I'll second an Anna teski I Marcel I Catherine Jersey and Trisha Kai so there you go welcome to the design Review Committee thank you very much appreciate your time thank you um Trisha I apologize and to the team I I have to leave because my daughter is 18 and I've been summoned because the teenagers
188have left my the premises and my daughter would like to have some birthday cake with me so she's 18 it's a big deal congratulations thank you so I'm going to leave early um I apologize no I I forgot this is the day where when my kid summons me I actually listen so now that she's an adult all right so have a good time wrapping up I'm I'm grateful that you could be with us this long I I longer than I expected so this candidate made me stay since I figured I have to vote for for him for fellow High School fellow all right have fun have a good rest so we we don't have meeting minutes tonight so it's really just a little kind of almost news items here um so uh Peter do you
189have anything on the reports of planning topics no I do not I love that let's just cross that one off um seven reports from board members and town planner uh Kate did you want to give something on comprehensive plan um yeah I do so we we had a meeting last week and I the kind of exciting thing is we're getting into the next phase of public so it's a it's a really important um Step we'll be rolling out in February um three things one will be a survey that will be um online I I we actually didn't talk people don't have computers so hopefully we'll get to that but a lot of people do but not everybody does there will be a mapping tool so that that will be looking at the map and saying
190I'd like the sidewalk here I I think this is a good place to plant trees um those kind of things um and the third thing is the meeting the box that we've we kind of I know we've talked about it a few times so they're all rolling out fast and furious um the survey is supposed to be live February 1st um and then we'll the I think the data map goes along with that and then the meeting in the box so um one thing I did want to bring up I think um the planning board I hope will will schedule um to do our own meeting in the Box as the board and then the process that the meeting we were sort of CH so there's seven seven topics of you know Economic Development open
191space that go along with the plan the exercise we did to practice was here's your little prompts we just broke into groups and had 15 minutes for each thing but the problem is 15 minutes time 7even we do have to if if we're going to do it and obviously I would highly recommend and suggest kol that the board participate in this um so that you get the time frame it's it's very like self-explanatory but like if you do it then the ask generally we're hoping that especially so that committee has representatives from other committee they go do it with their committee and then at least the people on the committee go at least that one layer as a as a kind of Baseline getting started and modeling for the whole town 18,83 to of us
192but that's not going to happen I know so um so that's the really exciting stuff I think maybe put on the agenda well well actually under here we don't have to put on the agenda if that's practical to have the board do meeting in the box and then um work on the next steps of that and then I do I do want to bring up just and I did bring this up at the meeting I do have concerns of the timing um I I'm on the committee I attend I read stuff I go to the meetings and I honestly did not know it limited to an 8-week window starting February 1st so I I did Express concerns at that meeting and I asked questions about could we could we add time and that's potentially a
193possibility Brandy had brought up the meeting saying well can we start and then if we need more time expand that pretty much got a hard no I can understand because you don't for their their planning so um I had talked to Yolanda about expressing concerns about I I mean this is public it's public process is $250,000 that's what weighs on me of involving the public um and she we had kind of batted some ideas also suggested could the start could we um start March 1 and use that month for planning and um because again we we didn't we don't we left the meeting without like your assignment your assignment your assignment how are we going to hit these groups what's it what our plan we we just have to do our best but we didn't
194leave the meeting of the plan nor do I think we prepared ourselves um I don't know yeah so I do still have that concern and I'm supposed to pass those things on to you so um so that and then the survey um this is interesting so we got a draft of the survey at the meeting on the 18th um we were we were able to offer comments which Anna and I did um prepare comments and sent back we kind of did them individually and then them and sent them in um and we didn't send it to the board because we weren't sure like open meeting because it wasn't published and who sees it and so at some point we can um where we stand though I don't know if the town if anyone from the
195town saw a draft of that before it got to the steering committee um so it's a little bit like where do we go from here like we we sent a bunch of comments we assumed there was going to be a meeting with the steering committee or something to review and which comments and where do we land and I don't think that's happening so it's a little kind of frustrating of how that's going to get ironed out um so I feel like we have to um somehow just be communicating out farther ahead right like to the steering committee to I communicate as much as I know to you guys but I don't know so like I would have loved to take that draft to my board and say Here's a draft you have comments um to
196get it turned around and I feel like maybe that couldn't have happened in timing but I wish we would have at least known that right um and I feel like if a draft survey is coming from the consultant we probably could have said can you give us this much time so we could go back to the board um particularly the planing board maybe some other boards don't have maybe as much so anyway that's what I know um it's supposed to be coming out February 1st survey data map meeting in the Vox um we I think we technically have the materials to get started right now but I if I recall there's going to be like a final here's the packet to get started so obviously as I just said our February 8th meeting is pretty
197it's well packed things could drop but it's packed so but we should be looking for a date as soon as possible so we don't get to the end and be like oops we never did this we never got to it right so that well and I would love to I mean I you can ask Janet or anyone with me everybody I meet if you're from Ashland I talk to you about the comprehensive plan so I would hope if we do it sooner then you have more motivation hopefully to go out and at least do it once with your family and your neighbors right that's that would be my job Kajol you into that so not yeah not wait till the end where you don't have feel confident to go do at least one more yourself
198is it something that we would as a board think about finding a like a a retreat day that we could just do it separately and just show up just to do that I mean obviously we'd have to post it as a meeting and stuff but I mean I don't know or is our what what's the duration of these well I mean we so I would we again counted 1 to seven go dividing groups go do it it was really just to get us a flavor of how to do it it wasn't that data was was n't used it was thrown in the trash it wasn't for the data it was piloting it and and we every group got through their subject they felt competently in that approximately 15 minute time frame MH but 15 time
199seven topics 15 minutes no maybe it's a full meeting it would be a full meeting for us yeah so so maybe some of them because maybe on some things we think more alike and they just we don't have as much discussion they go quicker we're we're not um the point of the exercise isn't that we have to agree on what we write down is collecting right so but you can see if if so we don't have to worry about consensus we love consensus we're good at it it just takes time um but no you you're just recording you're recording and and is there any rules to it can we do it in in in two sessions separate half of the topics and then the other half no absolutely I was giving the time frame I
200mean you don't have to do that at once and just you do not okay so we can actually keep this say say um February 8th approaches and someone continues right we could have meeting in a box ready and say hey we have an extra 45 minutes we're g to would be ready that way because that that would be we're going to do some we're going to do some sections it will and I'm going to rely on Anna Anna's typing so ideally we can handw write and I'm you won't be able but I'm pretty good at but ideally so again the format if you're talking to people about it is online because they already have it entered then they're not translating right um so it's it's prompts it's talk talk for 15 minutes collect ideas move
201on to the next one yeah it's pretty okay okay so it'll be good it's doable that way yeah that's true so I would say yeah I'm concerned that if we leave it for later to try to do it in one then we end up not do where not as good of a job because we end up with time and say oh let's go yeah so I would say for our February 8th meeting if it's out let's let's be prepared even if we have an extra 15 minutes hey let's try one of these does it have to be posted on the agenda as a potential thing under or be under comprehensive plan we can I think it's a good idea to put it though that we're that we're going to because we also I mean I
202would publicize like we're going to try we're going to do our best I hope to be cheerleaders right and that'll help I can put it in one of our I'm trying to get things in the newsletter more regularly I won't there won't be anything from me tomorrow because I didn't get there but you know I can mention there that as the planning board has opportunity we'll be doing our sections of compreh of uh of meeting in a box but I'm not going to put a yes we're going to be doing this section at this time it's like no I don't think that's necessary but I would love to see it because I just think it helps with the publicity right like could be a subsection of the comprehensive plan yeah that's what I thought we'll
203just put a a dash and then we'll say you know right there you know comprehensive plan meaning in a box you know like and if we don't do it we don't have to do it if we don't have time but it's there if we we have a space if it's and when it's done we take it out yeah yep until we get all when we get all the sections done is this sustainability committee coming back for three bylaws next in February that's when we get to sustainability committee Deepa no but is the Feb 8 going to be blocked I I don't no no one's going February 8th except those three okay no I was wondering like if we want to allocate like what we did for the tree bot the other day like start at
2046:30 and attack this Focus comprehensive plan section oh like if we started a little bit early yeah I mean we're talking about almost 2 hours for Seven sections but I think what I would do I like the idea of trying we if it's a couple meetings we did nothing we have to regroup right yeah would but but I mean we've been in meetings where no it's true things drop without notice they do oh they continued this and usually we could we could do a 15 minute like if we just do one of the just brainstorm a little bit I agree with deep but we don't want to do them all at 10 or 11:00 at night because we won't give our best yeah but I think that's a great idea to try yeah I mean
205if if we have a open calendar on eight then yes 7:15 to 11:30 is fine but I think this topic at 10:00 is not going to not helpful yeah yeah we we'll assume we'll we'll assume we'll put it on our agenda from EV for every meeting starting now we'll put in a comprehensive plan and we will fill it in as we can and if we get to you know getting into March where we're not going to finish we we'll make sure we lay out some real time or we'll start doing that even in March if we you know we'll start we start doing maybe an early one like we said on that point to to finish it up to force ourselves yeah even coming at 7 you know what I mean we can take smaller
206chunks and attack it okay right um next uh design Review Committee I don't think there's anything else there so sustainability committee the Margie had asked um to have kind of a retreat after our last meeting um related to the uh the tree bylaw again she asked for um she asked for 90 minutes um just with the sustainability committee with the planning board it could be a smaller group but I I think the I think we haven't had a chance to discuss it we were just listening that I think it should be kind of everyone everyone who can make it it could be Zoom it doesn't have to be in one of our meetings I said I I said really though she she asked me to offer you know some like days and times I said
207really the only the only times that ever work for us is opposite at our Thursday meetings and comprehensive plan takes one of those right so exactly so I think I think February 1st next week is a potential to have a zoom meeting and for 90 minutes and if you can tune in or tune in in your pajamas you know at least were there participating is that is that a possibility with everybody yeah sure okay that would would be okay so we'll look at we'll look at that Zoom February 1st for tree bylaw and related to that before I forget wait I have it somewhere I believe I was cleaning out my sustainability folder here before the meeting and I passed these down I believe Peter must have put these on the table next to me
208and I just put them all in my folder because what it is is an email directed to Peter from um Peter is it w wesburger w WB yes yes yes um and he was just G he's giving his um take on the tree bylaw Peter I know him um I I did serve on the YMCA board for a year or two um I had to actually had to choose at the time between planning board and YMCA uh board so I chose planning board um to that yeah thanks um but he is the chief develop vment officer for the Metro West YMCA so he's obviously very involved in the development of the YMCA in Ashland and this is an email and I apologize like I said I must have sat next to Peter and I put
209the whole pile in my folder and and they didn't get distributed so um I wanted to make sure that other Viewpoint got to you that's all sorry I stole them I didn't mean to I'm just assuming if it's saying um response for planning board and sustainability that it got to them because if it's if it was dress to Peter but you're giving it to us did it go to the sustainability oh yeah did it you know what it's a great question I'll make sure I said we to I'll just make a note I'll make a note to do that I I assume I did but I saw it this morning when I was cleaning out this folder I'm like oh I have five copies of this okay so um CPC we're meeting next week Metro
210westle Regional collaborative anything on that okay no meetings um MBTA communities I'm just putting this under other because we don't have a slot for it we are having you'll see it in the town new newsletter tomorrow um we're going to organize a kind of a community discussion um regarding MBT zoning and we're going to give a presentation uh similar to the presentation that we kind of gave to the select board planning board but on Zoom to anybody that's interested um and we're going to kind of hopefully start spreading the word yeah so it's it's really about you don't have to be there it's not a board meeting it's really just about for to get it out to the public this is what the regulation says um these are the initial ideas we have about you
211know how we think we could meet this here are some alternates in there and trying to get some feedback from the public about you know we would would we like area a included or area D like which one seems best right so it's not a it's not on a pitchly on a warrant article it's just to get initial feedback and to kind of have it out there it will be Monday February 5th yeah on Zoom it'll be via Zoom uh and I'll and Al Alvaro myself and Trish and Joe manani the select board will kind of be there talking about uh kind of the the process what what we've done where where we what tracks we're on um and try to move things forward yep so since um since we met the last time since
212the select board and the planning board met the last time we've just been kind of going through really it's SP Peter and Alo going through the just the worksheets and the asking the questions and dotting the te's and you know dotting The te's Crossing you know and there's just a lot of information to try to get in there so um that's kind of where we are in the process we're kind of just in the meat of it trying to see if what we think we want to do is possible but also to get community feedback to see if you know they can give us some direction on that too yeah I just a note at this time OB we we do we did receive a grant from Mass Housing Partnership we do have uh two
213Consultants working with us uh Emily in from in Consulting who I who I've worked with in the past who I cannot say more good things about and then also rkg and and rkg is uh working with a lot of Metro West communities they're actually running the affordable housing numbers and affordable housing components to kind of backend um how much of a affordable housing component indoor percentage we can add to our overall bylaw and so that has to be done in relationship to the legislation um which is which is I think they so I'm sorry it's 10 o'clock at night it the the title of that report is kind of a fiscal and impact analysis rkg is doing that for us uh and then Emily is kind of helping with the overall uh drafting of the
214bylaws which obviously Lisa be's included in and and and so we're kind of pushing ahead with that process will you'll have public forums yes after that point yes yeah because this this first one isn't about a warrant article we would still have to have the ones about the actual but we don't have a bylaw yet we're just trying to get that initial information out there so we have time till the your end it's gonna be a tight window yeah for spring it's going to be a very tight window to Spring uh I learned today that niic is is pushing off and and looking into this into fall town meeting just to kind of um pull back a little bit I I've Alvaro found that out kind of through the grape vine uh uh through a
215couple other you know through a couple of communities and so um we're going to try to you know the the the the thought process is is we should try to do all we can to make sure we you know get on the spring and and uh and just continue on and um and that's what we're we're going to do there I mean there have been discussions in the Metro Regional collaborative there was an email today um from um but we had a couple meetings go and gone through and plans the process was and I think the vast majority of towns were targeting fall but um email today was sort of around like how much compliance they were even going to like look towards targeting more getting a meeting and maybe not being like entirely doubting
216allies across yeah it totally seems you know kind of across the board right now at this point you know I think I think we're in is still in a good location obviously uh we have a good team working on it uh but I agree with Amanda you know everyone is still kind of noodling trying to figure out what's going on um I can't say more enough about Alvaro and the work that he does on the compliance model and the gis you know I think without him we'd be kind of lost a little bit uh because his skill set with GIS and being able to get that GIS license was a game Cher for us uh and to kind of get that energy into to the to the process process um and I think we have
217a good game plan I think we've always had a good game plan going back even a year ago um working on the compliance model that we had to submit for the state last January and so I think it's just a matter of putting you know putting everything together and and hopefully yeah we can thread that needle and get it on the Springtown war and meet compliance and if we don't we'll we'll reassess and we'll we carry on you know uh the deadline for adoption is Janu excuse me is theoretically a year from today right it's December 31st 2024 that's when we have to comply um but I think right now we're going to push forward and uh and hopefully thread the needle 25 January 25 it's approxim when the ball drops no it's it's December
21831st this year but I I'm going to I mean I know I think we sort of agreed like I really wanted the spring I I feel like if you don't given that we've known we've had this we've made a lot of success we hired Consultants you're giving the community not feeling like it's kind of holding this over you have to pass it right cuz there may I mean hopefully the forums ahead of time are going to flush out things that when we go that it's more understood and and accepted but I don't want to have like you have to pass this cuz now the deadlines I feel like that's not well that's exactly why we're pushing forward except there's a lot like I said there's we had that presentation we gave to everybody and really
219it hasn't really change that much except that there's all these questions they're like oh well we have to track down every one of these questions right and so it's just a lot more complicated than it's like oh just change these little things in the bylaw and you're done so we're hoping for that that's we talked about that that's what we're hoping for but like like I said it's tight with everything we have to do everything we have to track down and getting the consultant and do we want you know everything so um getting the consultant doing the best we can getting the affordability component study going obious ly um getting the verbage it's a lot it's a big lift for everybody right and not just not just for us in Ashland but I think regionally
220obviously if you go you know on the uh the Metro West Region collaboratives you know that's why I mean I was saying yeah some towns are kind of still trying to pull together right because it's a huge lift uh you know for for every city in town yeah but some have passed it already too so like doing our best gate no I just I'm I'm just repeating to speak up because I I just want I I think you are doing your best but like I If there's any other way right and if there's a certain thing that I can take as a board member like it's pretty hard for me to take with Comprehensive plan but like I would at least consider that if that helps get it to I do think the ones that
221have passed I could be wrong about this but if I'm if I'm thinking back to the meeting of the regional collaborative where everyone went through their status I think the ones who had passed were kind of like handed compliance like they were like already they met the requirements or like they they didn't have to like completely that's my recollection I could have that wrong it was I think end of November but I think it's every town is like is situated a little bit differently and I think the ones that are in our situation I think um hollon and sure Wen even have like uh like big issues with like water and sewer and septic and like things that we're not necessarily grappling with um but I think that compliance was there was an easier path
222to compliance for some communities than others yeah yeah yeah so anyway we're trying to trying to do things right so um and I I think it's I think it's coming together it's just that the complexity of the stuff even that alvare was working with to submit the plan it's like Way Beyond what we showed in that presentation like you know so anyway that that's where things are so um February 5th if anyone can make it but you certainly don't have to be there it's it's not a it's not a discussion for the planning board it's a discussion for the community so all right and the um the only other thing I have on my list was that um was it was it Helen Nicole that asked nicoal yeah asked um the planning board for meeting
223time at some point no no no particular date but to um talk about a bylaw that creates a historical district downtown so um obviously I'm happy to put it on our agenda at some point but there's a few we want to make sure we get comprehensive plan through there there's other things we we need to make sure we MBTA you know we have to make sure we stay on track so but maybe maybe March you know we'll have a we'll have an opening for that we'll keep an eye out for it I don't have a date for that yet so was there something was there one more thing you had something that you were going to bring up under no I just wanted to mention um the upper child's Trail they we're applying for a
224grant uh for the upper child's Trail and uh and I was collecting letters of recommendation uh from M ma mapc in the state and and uh and we're doing some work going to hopefully moving that project along is a priority project to the select board um and historically the planning board has kind of granted a letter of support um and so just be aware I I may be asked indor could be sending around just a draft letter of support that I would ask you know either to put on the next agenda Andor to kind of everyone kind of take a look at but other than that that's it all right like I said we have no meeting minutes tonight is there anything else from the board that you announcements I do have one thing at
225at some point can we put on the agenda sort of um I I'm kind of we didn't talk about that memo from Lisa me about the grinder thing but I think we probably need to talk about it related to the project I think I know my answer my my thing would be to um see if the planning board would basically ask the select board to kind of um they're the water and sewer Commissioners so like if if we sort of are the Crux of finding something I want to make sure it's passed on I don't think they sit around watching our meetings right I know people have friends and those things but like I would like it to be I would hope that we would professionally communicate something about that to them at some point
226yeah I mean uh truthfully I didn't even read that Meo yet so I saw it come in I but um so yeah we can discuss it first in context like you said with 9 to 49 and then wherever it needs to go you know after that so remind me when we discuss it in context here so that that we follow through with it if that's what needs to be done right um anything else I'm curious where the Whitmore state so Whitmore State we're still working with on them uh with them obviously I spoke to one of the homeowners yesterday kind of helped her out looking at some plans for her house um um our attorneys are still working on it a couple weeks ago I sent over a memo on work completed uh prior to
227the holidays they did do some work out there they rebuilt the entire sale running down the left side of the of the of the roadway which I inspected a couple times uh it was built to obviously standards they did rough in some of the sidewalk work um kind of around the cue saac but they kind of shut down and they actually tried to build up some temporary kind of of um curbing running down the right side of the roadway uh to help manage the will flow of water uh however with that said we've had a couple unprecedented rainfalls uh and so uh and the some the work is kind of held up a little bit you know obviously through the winter that was our goal just to kind of H hold up through the winter
228there's plenty of work that still has to be done legal council is still working on the case and they're kind of moving it forward uh with their own pay thank you yep anything else all right in that case I will make a motion to adjourn at 10:23 second roll call vote Marcel I Catherine Jers Amanda haes I and Trisha Kendall I all right thanks everybody see you in heavy man what's up with those lions