Planning Board Meeting 1/11/2024

001right welcome everyone the echo going that's my computer yeah okay we good yep okay welcome everyone first planning board meeting of 2024 um January 11th um a note to everyone that uh we are here live obviously but we also are broadcasting and recording the first item on our agenda tonight is a special item usually we start at 7:15 we are starting at 6:30 today I will call the meeting to order at 6:30 um Margie do you need to do you need to call your meeting to order in case I'm I'm on we can um Mar I'm not sure how many folks from the sustainability committee out there but uh we've got car myself as Margie I think is in the room um from the sustainability committee as well oh Margie you have to pull this

002closer and you have to press it on like the yellow but but I'm sorry Ash did you did you we we couldn't hear very well did you officially call the the yes you called the meeting to order for the sustainability committee yes okay great just in case all right so um just a very brief background so this is a um this is an effort the ashin um tree bylaw that the sustainability committee has been working on for quite some time um through covid obviously things were a little slow and um recently they've brought it to the planning board to try to um get our input try to um create a bylaw that might work for Astron to try to put a lot of different ideas together so this part of our discussion tonight is not

003um an official Forum there is no official warrant this is a a public discussion about some of the things that we have been reviewing in order to try to gain some input um from the public and and to answer any questions I do want people to note that the in I do want people to note that the um the information that was available online is a little confusing relative to um what we're going to go through today and so I ask that if if you have questions if things really don't make sense and they're not resolved within the presentation do please ask the questions because there it these are kind of complicated thoughts and issues and policies we're discussing some of the things I think didn't come out properly in the documentation that that was

004online and available for you for you to read so we're considering it an an open discussion um a time when we were really trying to listen to people who are here obviously and also people online and we hope that we um can gain a lot of information that way we're going to start out with um a presentation Ash did you want to did you have any statement before Mar Marie begins her presentation yeah as as Margie setting up the presentation if you don't mind uh I just wanted to qu provide a quick point of view as to why sustainability is uh is pursuing this and and believes that it's important for ashin to adopt um as we've been talking about uh from the sustainability committee we've had you know a goal of Net Zero uh

005for the town and in in today's world while we can continue to make progress on reducing our overall carbon uh emission you know the only way to actually absorb carbon uh is is through vegetation trees uh and so from a pure carbon neutrality perspective it is critically important but trees are super critical um overall as well which Marie will go over um we believe that you know uh trees as the as the as the diagram shows right uh please sustain life and and and we we we really need to sustain our trees our goal with this is to as um as Trisha put it you know really have a public discussion we're trying to incorporate as much public input before we take this to town meeting um so you know nothing you see is baked

006it's its points of view you and and if you've got uh strong points of you please share them uh we we want to try and represent the needs of the town as best as we can we're early in the process so please don't think that that anything we're putting out there is is absolutely locked uh and and in place um Marg hand off to you thank you so much for giving the shs thank you and and just just one minute before you start margerie just to um for people who may not know people both in the audience on and online Ash who was just speaking is um the current chair of of the sustainability committee um Margie gaso who's going to be presenting is also on the sustainability committee Peter machic is our town planner

007and the rest of us here are on the planning board so just to get a little familiar with the faces with the faces that are here so with that Margie I will turn it over to you okay good evening I understand that there has been some confusion and um misunderstanding on on the bylaw so I hope that I can clear some of that up this evening I have a short presentation and then we'll open it up for discussion because our main purpose tonight is to get feedback a couple comments before I begin um we would like to create a tree bylaw that is fair and serves the best interests of the community it is not our intent to stop development but to develop in a responsible way that considers and maximizes the benefits to the

008community and as I said we hope to gather as much feedback this evening but if you would also like to submit written comments you can do that following this evening um you can email the sustainability committee at sustainability Ashlin mass.com or Andor the planning board so the purpose of the tree by law is essentially to prevent clear cutting and and our intent is to work with developers so that their clear cutting is done only when necessary and in a way that is thoughtful and preserves the values of Ashland and and the property values themselves the bylaw will apply when a developer comes to the planning board for a permit to either build subdivisions multif family dwellings or other commercial projects and it would be triggered by the following things a site plan review which pertains

009to construction or enlargement of a commercial or industrial structure site alteration special permit or subdivision approval the bylaw does not apply to existing residential lots shall I admit somebody oh I'm sorry so we're proposing that trees that are 6 in in diameter at breast height which is 4 and 1/2 ft above the ground level or larger and that are located in the setback areas which are essentially around the perimeter of the property be defined as protected trees the requirements for applicants will be that they'll have to submit a tree protection plan that shows the trees on the property that will remain and those that will be removed the plan should show how these remaining trees will be protected during construction activities and they'll be required to either replace the trees that they remove or pay

010an equivalent value to a tree fund that will be established to allow the town to plant and care for more trees the equivalent value will be based on a formula that considers the cost to purchase replacement trees and to plant and maintain them and it will apply per inch of um diameter at breast height that has been removed trees provide many essential services that make life possible they create oxygen and they filter our air they promote our physical and mental well-being they provide shade evaporative cooling and reduced temperature extremes they reduce our need to use more energy and thereby bring cost savings for example they can lower heating costs by 20% and air conditioning by 30% trees connect people and build stronger neighborhoods they provide privacy they increase curb appeal and they can add value

011to our homes and re research has shown that that can range from 10 to 19% increase in value they strengthen the economy and they provide savings and value as Ash said in face of climate change they are very important for moderating temperature and wind which can improve public health during extreme weather events they remove pollutants from the air so but they reduce pollution ozone and smug they provide stability for land and control erosion and flooding they improve our watersheds and drinking water and of course they beautify our environment I think many of us live here because we appreciate having green cover I feel that I have to bring up soils um soils are Bec becoming more and more recognized as being important and so my point is that it's not just about an individual tree

012it's about the whole environment in which they grow and soils are a really important part of that for one thing they support biodiversity which is also essential for dealing with climate change because if you have more variety there's better chance of surviving they also play a big part in regulating flooding heat Islands water quality and I can't see what it says drought response and soil is really important in carbon storage so the soil which includes an elaborate network of microorganisms organic matter the roots and together with the leaf litter actually comprise the largest amount of carbon that's captured from the atmosphere and in this diagram on the left it simply shows that there are many different parts of the trees that capture and store Carbon on the right what it shows you is that the

013dark green color represents the live above ground and that is the proportion of carbon that is stored in that component and all of the rest of it is stored in the other components which include the organic which is the light green and also includes the live below below ground material Deadwood and the as I said the leaf litter and so save protecting and preserving trees is important it's a strategy that we're pursuing in order to manage climate change and it's part of the Net Zero resolution that we passed some years ago I think that might be oh no here we go so what is your vision for the future of Ashland and this is when I'll turn it over to you right thank you Margie so um said this is really about um about a

014public discussion so Margie has given her presentation we're happy to take uh questions to try to really get uh make sure where we are now is kind of understood um but also looking for comments and feedback um Peter will be managing that process both um in the room and online good luck Peter I'll help out when I can um uh and um obviously for people online you probably usually know the routine but you just want to make sure that your hand is raised and then um when your turn comes up uh Peter will will address you directly so Margie you don't it's up to you if you want to have a standing desk is very fashionable these days or if you want to take a seat so first there anybody in the room would anybody

015like in the room want to go first and step up the microphone sure yes CE please and just and just because this usually comes up sometimes in planning board meetings I'm not going to put um a time restriction on on speaking tonight but I would say to know that there are a lot of people in the room so let's make sure that every everyone um gets a chance and and we can always come around a second time if we have an opportunity okay thank you Trisha so I have one question and then a couple of comments I'd like to share when we talk about replacing the trees or paying into a fund can you help us to understand under what circumstances they wouldn't replace the trees but would rather donate to the fund under what

016circumstances well I think there are a number of factors can you hear me okay um okay so to some extent it would be up to developer to make that choice but it would also depend on the configuration of the property and whether there's suitable space and and the right environment for the trees that they would want to plant okay all right thank you and then um as many of you know I fell down the rabbit hole with the wireless radiation issue and in addition to the human health harm that we've discussed with these boards before there's a deep body of science showing that the radi frequency radiation is very harmful to birds bees and trees in the rest of the environment so on this crazy Journey I've had the privilege of connecting with many of

017the world's leading experts on these topics I'm certainly not an expert but I put our bylaw forth to a couple of gentlemen who are and Ed fredman has been the chair of the friends of Mary meeting Bay up in Maine and he said um and I'll read from a couple of emails that these guys sent back to me so Ed Freeman said one comment regarding your draft ordinance language which overall I think is excellent I would reconsider the use of the word clearcut in Massachusetts it appears to mean removal of all trees in a stand while this may be part of your intent I think the general public idea of clear cutting is probably more toward substantial or total cutting of a stand usually on an industrial basis yet your ordinance definitely focuses on a

018Timber harvesting at a much smaller scale even to the point of keeping track of individual trees so he says I think you can have language that addresses your main concerns without saying this control of clear cutting is the intent and he was kind enough to provide the language that we might want to align with at the state level and in the glossery of Forestry terms they say clearcut is one a stand in which essentially all trees have been removed in one operation note depending on management objectives a clear-cut may or may not have Reserve trees left to attain goals other than regeneration and two a regeneration or harvest method that removes essentially all trees in a stand and in the draft that we have today we Define clear cutting as the removal of 50% of

019the mature trees as determined by the Ashlin tree warden so I think his um information was a way to help us align with what the state guidelines already are or the laws to save ourselves any trouble down the road and then the second gentleman that I reached out to is um Albert man Anville and he has retired from the US fish and wildlife services and he offered us some comments about bird habitat protection so he says one of my jobs with the division of migratory Birds management was to adopt and Implement all reasonable and necessary efforts to avoid or minimize take that's the unpermitted killing injury and crippling loss of migratory Birds so-called incidental or accidental take which the US fish and wildlife services does not permit so he also helped to co-author voluntary communication

020Tower guidelines and he says that clear cutting selective cutting even aged stand cutting and related tree shub uh shrub clearing efforts can be especially problematic during bird breeding season when trees and shrubs are being cut but nests are active he was successful in stopping some of this this activity but it's a huge issue so he suggest you might put a simple Clause recommending against any tree shrub removal or cutting during the nesting and fledgling periods for protected migratory birds and there's more than a thousand species that are protected arguably this sensation could be for most of the year since something is generally breeding nesting rearing chicks and helping fledglings for much of the year from December to late spring for bald eagles to early spring to early summer for other Raptors to Spring and Summer

021for song birds and winter birds and into the fall for Birds rearing second clutches the protections are all codified in the migratory bird treaty act and its implementing regulations and the take issues that Trump managed to remove during his administration were overturned by the US federal district court order in 2019 and he was involved in that um so it's now the court order has now been codified into a new migratory bird rule by the United States fish and wildlife services and then he adds that bald eagles clearly present in Massachusetts and I know from Mr denman's photo City Post we do have them here in Ashland um so in addition to the MBTA protections also protected by the bald and golden eagle protection act disturbance take and take resulting in mortality are prohibited under that

022act unless they are given a permit you might point out that if disturbance be if disturbance becomes an issue the cell carriers would need to get take permits before the fact otherwise they could be in criminal violation of Statute and he's included some attachments that I'll go ahead and send there's another um part to that around disturbance and the noise from chain sha CH chainsaw CA logging trucks chippers and you name it can constitute a disturbance so there are some other factors that go with the trees with the birds so I also just wanted to comment that when we started introducing 5G into our town and at one of the earlier planning board meetings I asked Mr klasnic who's an attorney for the industry when they were giving us these applications I read through it

023and they were saying oh like on the Ponderosa site they were just going to take down three antennas and put up 9 or 12 in its place same platform same cell tower no big deal to them and I asked him I said are you putting 5G in our town are you introducing new technology into our town and he said yes but nowhere in the application did he indicate that so we need to be very careful about what we're allowing the wireless industry to do in our community they have um there are many reports around the country of Telecom coming in literally under the dark of night sometimes and clear cutting the trees because with fifth generation technology their signals are very small in addition to the bigger wavelengths that they're using and those small signals

024are disrupted by things like trees so they just come in and Lop off the trees so I love that we're going to have the arborist and Ashlin involved in all of the planning board decisions and something that with new technology we need to be mindful of and if we get to the point of revising our wireless communication facilities by law we have a good example out of Americans for responsible technology and one of the things they do recommend is that all of our applications are reviewed by a certified Arborist so thank you thank you CC so with oh with but some of so I can I'm going to just go to the next online person and then we can kind of rotate back and forth I think that's most uh fair and Equitable uh thing

025to do so uh the first person with their hand up was Joel AR bitman uh Joel can you please introduce yourself with your name and address hi Joel AR bitman Woodridge Lane in Ashland thank you Mr machek I have a few comments on the proposed bylaw first I want to thank uh especially morgie uh for all the work she's put into this it was an enormous amount of work and I think she did a great job with her presentation I also want to thank the sustainability committee and also the planning board I know there's a lot of work that's going to go into writing up a new bylaw among many other climate programs the town should consider I think a tree protection plan is critically necessary about a week or two ago I watched an

026interview with the Secretary of Energy under Obama a guy named Steven Chu he indicated that we have already baked in a 3 degree temperature rise by the year 2100 it's unimaginable the impact of what that's going to do that's already going to happen no matter what we do I mean we're really in trouble here uh a lot of you know Common Sense articles are talking about planetary Extinction there's no way to overstate the risk from climate change it's threatening our food supply our air our soil our water and most of all our lives and our health while I strongly support the tree bylaw that I see it as far too timid it doesn't go far enough and I'll give some examples one simple thing we could do to broaden it a little bit that would

027be not risky and not costly uh would be why not consider providing an incentive for homeowners to plant trees all of the focus here is on restricting cutting of trees which is great uh but why not go farther why not and maybe the fund for that could come from those who are cutting the trees we could reward homeowners from that fund who turn around in plant trees so maybe we could take a look at a uh uh thinking out of the box and broadening the program a little bit the bylaw as proposed I think is very limited and much too Limited I think it needs to do a lot more it only applies to development and Redevelopment projects a planning board member recently said and I may be misquoting I don't mean to that there

028are only a few very large project areas remaining in Ashland I mean the town is approaching buildout and there's not that many more sites that this is going to apply to so it's well meaning but I think it's it's very limited um the bylaw should cover all trees in Ashland including private property I I understand the politics of this you know the committee has been uh shy about trying to be too aggressive but it's time for residents to start understanding the risk the to be educated and informed and to understand what they can do and I think they'll respond in a positive way if they're given that information uh let me see what else I had uh what is the ratio of the number of trees that might be covered by the bylaw for these

029development and Redevelopment projects compared to the total number of trees in Ashland in other words if the trees that are going to be covered are 2% or 5% of the town's tree stock it seems like given the risk of climate change and the urgency that this is a drop in the bucket I had a couple of technical comments on the the the law the bylaw has proposed that I hope you'll review carefully and and perhaps uh make sure that these aren't going to be problems one of the things built into the bylaw as proposed is that it has a very good I think a very positive thing what I I'm going to phrase it a look back provision if uh somebody has cut down trees even 12 months prior to the beginning of their development

030project or however it's worded those trees would be includ be covered by the tree bylaw that's very good the problem I see is that if I'm a land owner say say I have a five or a 10 acre parcel and I'm going to be moving to Florida and I'm going to sell off my land so that a developer can come in and do all this work maybe it would uh with this law in effect maybe it would be better for me to cut down all my trees on my private property that's not covered by this bylaw and then wait 12 months to sell it my land to a developer I can sell off all the timber and make money and maybe the the lot is a lot more appealing to a developer because there you

031I just Exempted them from the byw if I'm understanding it correctly I really think that needs to be addressed and for this reason at a minimum I think larger Parcels even privately owned Parcels should be covered by this bylaw last comment on the technical stuff I didn't know about this in advance but I if I'm understanding uh the way this is going to get worded this 20 foot perimeter it sounds like only the 20 foot perimeter of a given of a of a Target parcel uh will be covered by the tree bylaw and the rest of it won't be just as a simple example to make the point my house is set back about a 100 feet from the street I left hundreds of trees on my property there's huge trees everywhere if I if

032I were allowed to cut down all of the trees except for the 20 ft near the lot line we would lose 60 70% of my trees instead of doing the 20 foot perimeter what I'd like to see is a change I'd like to see the bylaw say if you're within 20 feet of an approved structure that's very different then you can cut the trees down they'll be in your way and you have a right to clear them so that you can do your work we don't want to interfere with that process but to do it on the property line seems very illc conceived to me finally I would strongly encourage the town and the sustainability committee to hold a public forum that would be open to all residents about what we can do as a

033town and do individually to help with the threat of climate change asine residents would respond I believe in a very positive enthusiastic way I think fearing being more aggressive we don't have the time given the urgency that climate change presents and that we should be bolder than the committee is currently buil being so I support this but I think that we should we should look at a much more aggressive stance and I really want to thank everybody for making any effort you've made here it's a it's a great project so thank you very much thank you Joel um is there anyone um inhouse that wants to come Mike right I think you rais your hand for us I'm sorry and just a small announcement there was a iPhone found in the women's bathroom my mom

034oh okay I have it please sure yeah my name is Mike Kane I am a a local small developer and Builder um and I I also own uh my company's name is mg cane properties and I also own 126 cell storage over on Pawn Street um I had met Marie back in October 22 when this early stages we talked about this and I kind of been forgotten about it till a week 10 days ago when I found out this uh meeting was going to take place um so I haven't heard anything about the costs of implementing this program on developments so I said well let me take the bylaw the costs and apply it to two projects that I built here in town one is my storage facility on Pawn Street and one is um

035um Wilson Circle which was a six cuac I built right kind of close to the Oregon Club um and um so I took the numbers out of the um bylaw and I hope they're accurate tell me if they not now Wilson Circle uh we had to cut 250,000 Square ft clear cut why High groundwater septic systems 8 to 10t fills for septics and what have you very expensive to build you couldn't save a tree and fill 8 ft around it obviously um so when you do the math and people in the room and planning board members here have copy of this um to cut we had to cut 861 trees with an average 10in U diameter at breast height we have to replace five times that which is 435 trees at 2 in diameter at

036$750 a tree the cost is 3, $220,000 to the tree fund the house is sold for 750 to 900,000 this would add $538,000 to each house and this is very typical of any subdivision single family subdivision that will be built in the future in the town second uh example is my storage facility um similar math we had to cut five acres replacement trees $ 3,937 th000 that's a commercial project I doubt anybody would build that if they had to pay that today um the facility didn't cost to build that with land and construction those are two real examples of projects that were built applying this bylaw to it and then I just did a hypothetical for a typical anr lot approval not required typical Lots in town at 30,000 square ft um estimating to cut

03720,000 Square ft to fit your house your septic your driveway maybe you want solar exposure a yard what have you appli the same math using the very minimum tree size of 6 in three replacement trees per comes out to $155,000 added on to the cost of the the house so there are huge costs involved in this bylaw and they could be higher I was very conservative with the numbers of trees and the sizes of trees these numbers could be 25 or 50% higher when you do the actual measurements um so that's a comment on cost and I have a question I guess for Margie um you said it didn't apply to existing single family homes yet the site plan alteration special permit bylaw 5.8 applies to this tree bylaw correct correct so um 5.8.2 says

038applicability no person shall undertake the following land clearing SLG grading activities without first obtaining a sight alteration special permit from the planning board clearing of an area greater than 5,000 square ft or grading if involving more than 100 cubic yards of Earth so if I wanted to build a swimming pool with a patio around it or detached garage or Barn you know it's disturbing 5,000 square ft clearing it it this would apply by the way I read it no I was actually wondering about that and I would like to ask Peter so I think with the purpose and I think when they were when the simula created this is that it would apply to any newly created residential development but this applies to this B I agree and I don't think we really haven't had

039that discussion yet and I understand your point and your question and I think that's a discussion that everyone has to have yeah with this I mean by the words it clearly applies to anybody 5,000 you have a great point of view I'm not I can argue that and it's a great point of view and it's a great point to talk about yeah so and so you've got a huge expense for new developments possibly redevelopments I think will shut down most new developments you can't no one's going to spend you know half a million dollars for trees on top of the cost of the land and the house and what have you um and then if it applies to existing residences there'll be huge costs to those people to put in a pool or detach a

040garage or what have you so the costs are very important the costs haven't been discussed or mentioned that's what I thought my role should be as a as a developer in Boulder thank you Mike are you I'm sorry are you I I was going to say are you open to a question sure absolutely um so um in your calculations those were based on what was online which is basically clearing that the that the bylaw would apply to the whole lot it's not um it's not calculate or is it calculating the buildable is it's based on the bylaw that I printed off that printed offline so it's not um what Margie was presenting in her presentation was that the the protected trees would just be in the setbacks so this is if we cleared the whole

041lot um and the alternative what the the bylaw is looking at is protecting only those trees um that are in the setbacks already right right but you're talking new construction right right new conr take the the example again of Wilson Circle which by the way I want you to understand that is the town's only Net Zero Energy subdivision the houses are super insulated solar powered all electric 100% off the grid but they're on the grid but they're they don't use power off the grid and the people live there for Zero Energy costs no electric bill no gas bill no propane bill so I consider myself to be a very green build a very green person but the cost are the costs and I don't see where I made any mistakes so here this kind of

042the second part of my question right as a developer which I am not right um you had talked a little bit about that development um and I don't know that development very well um but about some of the things you need to put put in septic systems roads there you know W you know different things is it possible in a development like that to um that there are areas of trees that can be saved um more easily you know that maybe don't fit Within These tight restrictions but in looking at in looking at a um you know land like that are there areas from your point of view that can be saved um and such that the if the bylaw was written a different way there'd be like a middle ground between clearing it all

043and and restricting a restricting a developer to you have to save these areas and someone might say those areas just don't work for what I'm trying to do do you understand my question yes I do and the answer is in this particular case no because of the of The High Ground Water because of the septic systems the huge fills you had to to clear very large areas clear-cut very large areas now we we be minimized it but we you know we had we had Wetlands to deal with we had detention pwns retention areas to deal with so we stopped where we where we could but we couldn't build without cutting those those trees because you need because you needed to put the septic systems in what would be the setback areas was that right well

044when you when you have a a a new construction um and you have to remember most of the good land all good land is built you know the old the flat Fields without any trees and great soils they've been built 50 60 years ago everything that's left is is hilly it's wet it's lousy soils it's Rocky and you've got to kind of regrade everything in order to make it buildable and livable and it's just very difficult to say we can do it this way and save these trees in some cases it it's possible I'm just saying in this particular case it was impossible if you had sewer it might be a little more easy to do that um but we didn't have sewer so okay thank you I thanks for uh taking my question I

045guess it answered my question and that is if there is no land in ashin that doesn't have trees on it not much okay not much yeah so and you couldn't have found a different 5 Acres that you wouldn't have taken so many trees now well this was for sale I mean you know it could have had another five acres but but if you knew ahead of time it was going to cost you $3 million to build on it because of the trees you might have looked at some of the other properties oh yeah I would would have bought it I never would have bought this it would be un you couldn't sell the property the houses but you're saying there's not enough property in Ash to build anything that isn't isn't I didn't say that

046at all I just said most of the most of it's treed and in order to build you got to cut a whole lot of the trees down and in a subdivision it applies to the bylaw yeah cut down and Mike I think that's fine I I certainly didn't mean to put you on the spot like just again cost I just want to get cost out they're real yeah and I I also want to make make sure that I mean this is an informal meeting but um generally uh questions are directed to the chair um as in town meeting and so it's not really a discussion between members of the public so I just want to be careful of that that can direct it towards us right um that's the way it works she's the boss

047that's right Your Best Shot man I'm ready all right all right I'm gonna take the oh excuse me uh I'm gonna take the next uh hand from the audience and I believe uh on my screen uh Julie n Julie n can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address Julie nardone 86 Elliot Street um if I'm visualizing this correctly it's as if I'm looking at a giant say square and most of the middle is for all intents and purposes clearcut so we're just talking about a border around the edges and I think uh the point of this by law is to act as a deterrent to take down what's left which honestly it's really not that much because it's just around the perimeter um I think the pricing you know if you don't

048take the trees down you don't have to pay for the pricing um I'm not sure I I dwell on that um I in the mitigation section honestly my first reaction was that it was actually on the weak side um you're taking down uh I think from the presentation the trees are 6 Ines and larger and the more mature trees are the ones that absorb the most carbon and then where we where people are being asked to replace them with very small trees 2 inch trees um we took some we had some uh trees that sort of fell down and were diseased ashes and we actually spent extra money um to get larger trees because they take a long time to grow you know if you got these little saplings all over the place um I

049I just I was confused why you would take down a say an 8 inch tree and replace it with all these little saplings instead of just replacing it with a more equivalent tree um so we're kind of replacing something with something equal um so that that's pretty much all I had to say I I think it's a very good a very good start I thank everyone who worked on it um so thank you very much thank you Miss nardone uh so we have a half hour left scheduled for this uh discussion so I'm just going to ask people to hold keep it to three minutes or or or shorter uh and I do have seven people online and a couple people in the audience so let's do another one from the audience but I think

050I think we just need to be respectful of all everyone's time tonight so if someone would like to step up to the microphone I saw Mr hickey you had your hand up please feel free and we'll just keep on alternating one after the other um um Chu Lids on 150 Oregon Road um and I of course know Mike K's development extremely well it and I will say that it is the way he described it as extremely green it's a really impressive piece and I commend him for that but I would say that um one could have cut down much less and still come up with a way of putting the septic system in for all these heal is just directed to me Chuck and not to much I'm sorry um so um while I think

051um you know this is an issue I think we need to talk about whether um we have some mechanism for um for making exceptions where it's essential to the house um nonetheless I think that we could have done left a lot more trees there thanks thank you Mr litz uh to the next person online uh I think Cara um can you please you've had your hand up for a while can you please step forward and state your name and address hi this is Cara um I'm at 31 Donell Lane um I'm part of the sustainability committee and there were a couple stats that I wanted to um put out there um in relation to costs in helping Margie uh kind of figure out this bylaw um I did some research into what um is typically

052spent on Rel Landscaping a a construction site for a home um and from what I could tell um the average part of the budget that is spent on Landscaping uh for new residential homes was about 10% of the project so I we fully know that this would be an added cost but I think we need to also realize that developers are already spending money on landscaping and it does increase the sale value so part of this is not new costs um and there is a return on this investment um besides the Net Zero sustainability storm water and all of that stuff um and I just wanted to throw that out there all right thank you um to the next person in the in the audience can you please step forward and introduce yourself at the

053podium with your name and address you I'm Lori dud and I at 561 Chestnut Street I've been a 25 year resident of Ashlin and the reason why we moved here is because we liked the diversity of Ashlin I like that there are blue collar and white collar workers that you can go to football games and lacrosse games with and I just feel like this bylaw is going to change the Dynamics of of our Our Town um I don't think that it's been vetted enough uh the repercussions of residents and businesses hasn't been totally evaluated um and I would like to see some more options considered specifically tax incentives for businesses for keeping the trees and for Developers for keeping the trees having the town vote to purchase more land for forestry um I also live

054near the Warren Woods there's a huge field there where trees could be where trees could be planted you could make it into a tree operation PE I was part of the Earth Day growing up like people love to get together and plant trees I think that having fines and fees and taxes on residents and on on the the developers is it's just a bad knee-jerk reaction I don't think it's a good look for the town I don't think it's a good look for the board um also the the second thing that I want to go over is that um this is going to drive off all new development I believe my cane is spot on there's a lot more things to development that isn't realized like Ledger your septic your Wetlands there's so many things

055that make it so hard to develop this everything here is on Rock like we're just on Rock entries and everything it's just it's it's very challenging um this going to make businesses come to a halt it's going to make stagnate the entire area and um the businesses that are here are going to stay you drive off the businesses and what that does is that puts all the tax burden on the residents the higher taxes are going to drive off the young adults it's going to drive off the elderly and it's going to drive off all the blue collar workers the higher taxes are going to kill diversity within this town um and I think that the tree cing law will turn Ashlin into a bedroom community like Dober and Sherborn and do you know what

056Dober and Sherborn don't have a lot of is businesses and blueco collar workers so um what they do have a lot of is elites and treats so um I don't want this to become an elitist Community that's not why we moved here um and I think there are more collaborative solutions that Ashley can come up with to to can help the environment help the businesses and help the residents that's sorry fast thank you thank you uh so uh to the next person uh on Zoom uh Kathy Rooney can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address hello Kathy Rooney 136 Fountain Street uh so I just want to say thank you for holding this discussion and to the sustainability committee and to margi for all the hard work they've done so far and

057I know people in the background and planning departments and the tree warden for sure have been involved with this um I'm a little concerned that um this discussion has already gone to the extremes of elitist versus too much cost to um not enough trees because one of the things I've seen in town for the 25 plus years I've been here is that we've lost a lot of the Farmland we've lost a lot of the trees and we've lost a lot of um field habitat which is actually one of the most valuable habitats in the state um for biological diversity so I'm really concerned um that in part of in part of this with this tree bylaws our streets in particular are creating a lot of the heat Urban island effect and we need to be

058replanting along our streets and um we don't seem to be doing it we cut down a lot of trees um forever Source we cut down a lot of trees because they're old and past their Prime and they need to come down because they're damaged they' been hit by cars whatever and they never get replaced in town I think that's a big a big mistake we're making with our development I know that what um some of the stuff Cara said about um the amount of return on investment that planting into trees near trees and with and saving as many trees as possible on a property adds exponentially to the property values to the resale value to the rentability to the keeping of tenants if that's what you're doing um your return on investment is is very

059high for taking the time and effort and money to not cut down so many trees um so I just wanted to say thank you and that's my um that's my Comics thank you uh Kathy uh with that said I will take the next person here live in the audience I think Steve and then you sir please introduce yourself with your name and address my name is Steve hickey I live on Franklin Road I am a builder in town um I also own one of the probably few remaining tree lots in town um one thing that I just quite don't understand with this at all there several things but one of them the py board through any of the for site plan review for any of the proposed projects that you're talking about with this BW

060you have the ability to work with applicants to fine-tune and tweak those projects any project that's comes in front of you you can deal with planting more trees moving things around working with the developer to get a project that works better for the town you have that ability now so what is this adding to it it's a tax it's a tax and it's a tax only for property owners new PE people that would be building something new in town to try to contribute to the tax base it's it's I I I can't even believe that it's limited to just new projects existing homeowners are all exempt they can do whatever they want I'm I'm just it's it's ridiculous you have the ability to work with applicants I've seen you do it I've seen you request

061more trees I've watched you do it it doesn't add anything new in that regard except making you pay look at project like the Middle School the new middle school and look at a project like the DPW building right say round numbers if you took down 10 10in trees in the perimeter that's 100 in of tree you have to replant them at 2 in right that's 50 trees either project plant 50 trees and one of those did collectively they plant close to 50 trees no but yet you're requiring other people to do it or guess what pay in at a cost of what 40 Grand I I think it's wrong I think it's wrong and I really would like the board to tell the public why you think it's okay to put this cost burden on

062individual private property owners thank you all right thank you Mr hickey next up on the audience Lori Lori can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address hi my name is Lui Georgio I live at 85 Oregon Road um I've been a resident for 28 years my mother grew up here my grandparents grew up here um and um I don't think it's right for or um someone to tell you what you can do with your land I I I'm actually really taken aback by this um I think it's really important I hey I like trees like the nest person and I will plant trees but I don't want my town to tell me what I can and cannot do um if I Tred to sell my property and I have to go through

063this bylaw no one's going to want to buy it that leaves me with my property which was mine so I should be able to do what I please um I think more people need to know about this situation that we have here and um I think that definitely I just I don't agree with it at all that's all thank you thank you so much for your input in the room sir can you please step forward and state your name and address I sound like an idiot no you were great I was just trying to move the move move comments along so good afternoon evening rather thank you what happened oh I got you the H yeah did I do something wrong no no it was okay misunderstanding so my name is Kenard Del 26 Deer

064Ridge Road um I tend to agree with the comments of of a number of people in here I think the what I I had drafted up some written statement that I was going to make but then it was all based on what we had to work with online which now appears to be different so my my first comment is presentation is nice but the detail is in the words and we need to see those words because that's where the first round of some of this Net Zero stuff came out didn't come out in the way the bylaw was passed with the what the information was that was available to us so I'm just saying let's get the information out and have a public forum that can discuss this because I too worry about overreach overreach

065to people telling us what we can do and not do with our property that's just not American on top of it I always think about these issues in three questions is it needed what problem is it solving for and we heard all about you know the uh the the benefits of trees and how they take in carbon and all that but again a solution needs to fit the size of the problem we can't solve everything about climate change in a town that represents 1.6% of the mass of the of Massachusetts uh area it's 1.6% of the total state area we're not going to solve it with drastic measures in our town and this is a drastic measure uh is there a detailed assessment of the cost we talked about the cost for Builders what about

066the cost for administration you got permitting and site reviews and and um you know all the inspections and everything else that's going to go in behind this it's going to be a cost to the town which means it's a cost to the taxpayers so where is the detailed cost of implement this change um is it manageable and reasonable the I reacted very strongly about the imposition of these rules on homeowners trying to figure out what the heck they have to do to comply I appreciate the fact that the clarification was it's not for uh existing properties I do not agree with going back and revisiting that comment because I think that's really a bad thing for the town um and I think the fines and penalties are just out of this world it's absolutely ridiculous

067to have the kinds of fines and penalties uh that are encompassed in this document now I'm not saying that we do nothing or you know anything else but I think there's an approach here that can work and that focuses on educating rather than regulating um offer people options someone just suggested incentives or other things but offer people options for planting the right kind of trees when they want to replace trees or need to replace trees that they take down or fall down um because of Storms and we have a lot of storms we have a lot of trees that are falling down so help people understand what they should be planting do some educating and I think a lot of people would gravitate to that we are opposed A lot of people are going to

068be opposed to the idea of saying you can't do anything like put in a pool or put in a patio and the illustration in the document that was online was a home house it was a house it wasn't a development it was a single house with some proposed changes so that really triggered me to say this wasn't about developers it was about every homeowner in the town so we need Clarity written clarity about what the prog program is okay that's all I'm appealing for thank you very much can I respond to that last bit regarding the diagram that was in the document that was a mistake that I made by including that particular diagram it was meant as a placeholder to show that a tree plan would be needed it was borrowed from a town

069whose bylaw actually applies to residential property and I did not mean for it to apply to residential property I'm asking for the actual docum thank you thank you uh great points next up online uh Mr Rob Shar can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address great Rob thank you Peter rob share 41 Bay Colony Drive uh first I want to um thank Margie sustainability for pushing on and this and planning board for looking at it um and working with and also the people who have come forward tonight to talk about it especially uh the developers who have to deal with it in the real world so I certainly appreciate those comments um I I think I could tell I'm sure there's some details that we still need to be clarified on this

070one of the things I thought was um most uh just a couple major points was I think you need to emphasize or Define the setback and how that might typically work so when um when uh someone is saying it's going to cost x amount of money I think some uh distinct um uh examples could be helpful and help helping people understand what's really involved uh I for example you know if someone's building uh an apartment building um and what would the setback requirement be and how many trees might be involved you know so that kind I think it could be highly variable um so that's uh you know that's something I would suggest that that you look at in terms of actually helping people to understand uh what's at stake here um the other thing

071in terms of you know I I certainly like the fact that people are talking about uh positive incentives I think that's something worth considering um and maybe something in that direction would be good as well I think one of the things um this does is try to give people an incentive to save trees so you know that's a good way of looking at it uh one thing I would in terms of the cost maybe right now we have a situ sitation where there's no direct cost to cutting down trees I mean I think uh Steve hickey made a great point I know there's a lot of discussions with the planning board about saving trees and doing that uh maybe you know part of the answer is is to reducing the costs we're you know we're

072at a position now where there's zero cost to cutting down trees without good reason maybe if there's at least somewhat a cost maybe not everything that's in this uh proposal that would at least uh be a starting point um so that's um you know those are that's kind of my initial uh reaction to that um so you know think about positive incentives and um looking at this I had just a simple question um is the anr exempt from this proposal or not it wasn't clear all right I read that I thought it was exempt is that true we are still discussing okay how to deal with an anr yeah so you know so I'm sure we all recognize this is still very much in a draft uh draft case so you know I think you've

073made a good start here I think some practical examples of what we might be dealing with and what its effect would be um could be helpful in helping us to evaluate it so um thank you thank you Mr sheer uh is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak that has not spoken okay I'm going to go to the next person with their hand up online on Zoom excuse me uh Mr Rob mulen can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address yes hi my name is Rob mulen to candle light way excuse me Rob can you speak up a little bit okay yeah I'm on two candl light way in Ashland I've been looking at this with maie for a long long time and I'm glad that it finally came

074came about I was very much surprised by the numbers from Mike Kane and I want to kind of hope that you guys on the on the planning board and and sustainability committee work with him because I can't possibly imagine the numbers that he was bringing around and kind of come up with a scare scaring kind of thing you know because we're only talking about the setbacks I don't think he calculated the number of Threes correctly that he's going to have to take down even if you know because it's like it's like juli andone said it's just a kind of a small area around the extreme there that the trees at this particular Point get to be protected that was not the original plan Rob Rob just for a clarification uh Mike did say that he

075was calculating over the whole site which is what the online information said so that's what he that's what he did but I just wanted to clarify that okay so so I want to make sure that when we have a next forum that you know when we should come up with numbers I I agree that cost is important and you know building building contractors have to have a have a job and they they they have to be able to sell their houses and all that so so we should work on the cost I think cost is important and we should all make good calculations and maybe his pieces of land a group example to work out that's that's my suggestion for the next time thank you so much Rob uh is again there's anybody else in

076the room that hasn't spoke that would like to speak at the microphone okay moving on to the zoom meeting uh Britney can you please unmute yourself and and state your name and address hi yes um my name is Britney Adams iono I live at 32 Warren Road um and uh I haven't heard anybody draw attention to the bylaws um own attention paid to uh invasive species and I just wanted to say you know I I don't think that the development of more housing in Ashland which is critical um and the development of more business which is also critical to our economy has to be at odds with the um the ability for us to save valuable trees in Ashlin I also want to say and it's going to sound ridiculous on face value but not

077all trees are good trees right and so um when we talk about trees on a lot that's for sale is there a way possibly that we could have an arborist or a horticulturist go out and assess okay you know 50% of the LW is is invasive trees or 60% of the lot is invasive trees and then make it so that the cost to replace those trees right if it's if it's 80% native trees that's going to be a costlier um replacement uh for the developer um versus if there's 80% invasive trees have that it am I making sense I I I know I'm rambling a little bit here but um I I don't think it should just be a blanket you know it's however many trees you cut down you have to replace because frankly

078if they're Norway maples have at it like I said um so that's just one thing I want to draw attention to I really don't think that they need to be at odds with one another like somebody else said we have so many concrete Islands in in the town um that should also be focused on when it comes to replanting or or planting trees in general um before we consider other options but um I'm in favor of the bylaw but um just needs a little bit of tweaking I think thank you thank you Britney uh with that said oh anybody else in the room once twice three times all right so the next person with their hand up is Brandy Kinsman hi everybody um good evening thanks so much for the the presentation and the discussion

079tonight um I just had a quick question because I glanced at the bylaw online but um I was curious how this would affect projects like the YMCA and possibly Town Projects down the road would those be um applicable to this to this bylaw and how would that work you want to take that or um I would say that that has been if you've watched um the planning board has been discussing this with the sustainability committee on very ious meetings and that has come up in our discussions given that the two public um two Ashen buildings that that are just recently constructed and you know a building like the YMCA which is you know kind of a different function so I would say that it has not been entirely resolved and it's one of those big

080questions it's one of the reasons that we're having this discussion because the the the problem is is complex and I I don't have an I don't have a consensus answer for you right now Randy okay I appreciate that I'm just I'm concerned you know I'm concerned about you know businesses coming to town I'm concerned about you know future Town Projects but I keep thinking about the YMCA that is going to be fundraising to open a new um state-of-the-art facility here in Ashland and I'm listening to Mike Kane and his numbers with um development and I'm thinking about additional millions that the YMCA might need to raise is to basically be able to um to be able to open and I'm concerned about that and I I I'm I'm in favor of protecting trees I think

081that um you know we should look at ways that the sustainability committee may be able to um help educate residents on small ways that they can also help protect trees and plant more trees um because I think that would be an important part of the whole um the whole tree initiative um but I am concerned about how you know a a blanket tree bylaw might might have some some um Downstream impacts that we as a community may or may not uh be ready for so thank you thank you uh so we have another hand up and so I'll just jump right to that uh Miss Joan uh on Friday can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address sorry Jung and Frid one Shore Road um I have a couple of comments one

082is um as I understand it it's one it it's if you take down a 10inch diameter tree you have to plant five trees of 2 inch diameter if I understand this as an example if you take down a tree that me that covers 35 square feet of your lot you're going to lose 175 square feet of your lot in order to um replant that many trees of coverage and I'm wondering at their full growth and I'm wondering if one of them one of the um one of the collaborations on this may be that you could instead of five trees for every tree that you do one or two trees for every tree I mean I think that five is is pretty um it's it's pretty unfair because you would lose you lose five times your

083land and I'm not sure how that how that comes out as being f there um the and uh I'm just I think that um the TW the 12-month look back I'm I'm concerned if it's only if it's only for um development projects that may be one thing I can understand why someone might try to clear their land but I think if it's for if it ends up being for a residential also then I think that's a problem because I don't think that's fair to to a homeowner who took down a tree because they needed to and and um now they have to now they have to replant so those are just my comments thank you thank you Joan So with no more hands up on the zoom and oh uh last oh uh so the

084last hand that was just raised is Charlie Charlie can you please unmute yourself and say your name and address hey everyone uh Charlie Pine I'm at 206 East Union Street and um just wanted to say I agree with what Mike Kane said and the woman in who came up to the podium um you know adding that much to builders cost is just going to make uh really expensive houses in this town it's going to turn it into a Dober Sherborn and um I don't want to live in the town like that and I don't really want to have uh the town telling me what I can do and not do with my own property so uh thanks for your time and I just want to say we really need to think about this and what

085are the int unintended consequences of just cramming a whole lot of uh cost uh to developers and just ordinary people thank you all right so I think um I think we're nearing the the end of where we put the public discussion for tonight I just I wanted to open it up just if anyone on the planning board wanted to make any comments um don't have to it really was about listening but I wanted to open up if you did um I'd like to make a comment I'm just I'm thrilled at the participation because I know sometimes collectively we get cynical when there's um a forum and a discussion so thank you people online coming out because that that's a great starting point um this is maybe partly to Margie and sustainability is uh one thing

086I think um collecting some of the questions and like an FAQ out of this is that is that at all practical I don't know if it's practical but I think it's important okay so wait maybe collectively we can try I we're not going to get every question and I don't think that's the intent but at least kind of some of the bulk of them and start working on that yes I I agree there were a lot of things that were said that we need to address and respond to and then I guess this would be the board and sustainability like of of um like kind of next steps about open issues and and how do we bring the public along to make sure they're included on um that I assume we'll keep having more discussions

087and forums until we get to something that we feel is is really appropriate yeah so certainly not the yeah it's certainly not this one discussion no I I agree I just kind of wanted to put that out there that it's still I believe staying on our planning board meetings which might be small chunks and people have access to watch the sendin comments um Etc so okay thank you if I may this is Ash Ash can you hold on just just a minute I want to get through the planning board and then I'll go back to yeah yeah no worries no worries no worries Marcel I just wanted to Echo what um um what Kate just said I I've been more than two years in the planning board I don't think I have had so much

088fun without a plate of food in Fr me it it's great to see this level of participation because I liked every single comment and from the beginning when we started talking about this I was uh we we talked about it I was convinced the most important part is EXA what happened today and and for for a specific reason because the the this effort that's coming from the community can only work and it can only pass in reality if it really what the community wants and uh and every single one of the points was important it's very easy to put your blinders on your own pet uh uh thought about the tri by law and not see what the other uh other viewpoints are I'm personally in the construction industry so I understand very well what

089has been said about cost and that that is very reasonable but the the same is true with with the trees uh I I I I I like the direction of everything but it has to be holistic it has to be something that really works cannot be uh just a punitive way to uh kind kind of um uh comeand deer people into into action I think the action needs to come up from the town like like it's coming and the last point is is uh the the the the fairness of a regulation is is something that that that I that I have expressed the fairness between private private and public impact like Brandy just said is very important because if there's a burden for the citizens the town cannot be exempt I think the government has

090to be just as participant on the pain and on the benefits of any regulation otherwise it doesn't make any sense to me so I think listen to everybody and I hope we have many of these before so so that this can be filtered into something that really works for everybody otherwise it's not going to be successful I'm not sure have more to add than what Marcel just said but I think each of the comments that was suggested whether for or against I think had so much value and I think that's what we were looking for and I think you have so much takeaway from this evening that I think the idea was to refine it as we go along and Mar long I think thank you so much for the participation both the positive and

091the negatives and all the cost breakr I think it is totally an eye opener when you look at numbers that way and I think we have so much work more to do what would be helpful I think Margie is to kind of set those timelines where we can boil boil down those points that were shared tonight and see what we can work and progress so that we have this continuation and come back to the community to say hey here are what we heard last time and how can we improve on these five things for the next time and maybe that's how we start to boil down and I think that would be a great next step for this so thank you all for amazing participation thank you and and now I'll go back to um

092uh the sustainability committee members or Ash on who ones who I haven't spoken yeah I I uh I I'll uh I'm not sure there are other members I think ch spoke uh and Margie's already spoken so so just want to kind of put out there that our goal here was to uh get something out there that was at least you know structurally big but but but not so big that that no changes could made be made uh and and uh get get community feedback before we would move anything forward right um thank you again for the participation really really appreciate the input um this is exactly what we needed um our goal is to come back and and hold multiple forums so so certainly keep an eye out for it I think we've got uh

093an amount of digestion to do with with all the feedback that you've given us and uh certainly looking forward to collaborating further with the planning board as well to to refine this uh a little bit further and then represent it um back to the community to to see if you know at least some of those points have been addressed clearly uh hearing both the pros cons you know people in favor and this saying you know uh I heard some folks saying that this doesn't go far enough other saying this goes too far that there's going to be need to be a middle ground you know uh as a community for us to sort of go okay this makes sense um and and the only way we're going to get there is is through debate so

094so again thank you for debating it and and we'll make sure that there are uh additional opportunities for us to do it you know certainly not intended to be a one andone deal uh thanks TR for hosting it uh I I think the the uh participation was brilliant thanks Ash um Margie did you have any final words you've spoken enough today okay um before you chase us out I have a processed question sure uh you want me to go up there yes please things like this have to have a Target date what's your target date for making something happen well I think because you're clearly not prepared now I mean we we're not we we had a nice presentation but all kinds of issues were were were brought forward about the lack of data and

095even even uh Ashwin recommended or or acknowledged that data is not necessarily available to us right now so what are we going to see the data and when are we going to see something solid that's going to then go to town meeting what's the plan jimy sorry okay um I mean I think what the sustainability committee has been working working toward with the planning board is hoping to do something at Maytown meeting but this was our first putting this out there um and and I think there's a lot to work through I'm I'm not sure I'm not sure there's a deadline I think it's more important and I would anyone on either board can um disagree with me it's more important that we put up some things out there that is a warrant out there

096that's well thought out that the data is there that we've had enough opportunities for public participation that it's well texted that there aren't mistakes in it and that may take longer than that may take longer than we were expecting so I it's going to I think it's going to so so it may right so I'm saying that on the spot here we're not going to make that determination but marging the sustainability committee will be working on it you know with with all this feedback that that we've been taking which we take very seriously and um and and then we'll look at it in that way I'm going to upset some people I'm probably going to upset ashin totally it was a nice presentation but it was without substance okay and I spent enough time on

097the planning board six years and enough time on the board of selectman 14 years to know that something this substantial ain't going to happen in May I'll leave you with that okay I I I understand I appreciate your experence I should not I'm just not going to make a call on the spot at the end of a meeting um we really kind of ended the the public participation part of the meeting um and we had asked for you know speakers at many times so we are we are going to end that at this point what what I was going to wrap up and say is that um this is obviously a very complex issue as other people on the board have very clearly stated and other people on the Sy sustainability committee have stated that

098it was very informative to get this kind of discourse back and forth um I think part of the planning board's role as you know from being on it for many years is that is that we have many different things to balance right we're not in the court of one particular um it's not just about sustainability or just about business or just about um affordable housing or just about health or just about anything the planning board actually has to look at all of those considerations and try to find something that actually that works for the town and as you noted that can take a very long time and we're not about to I at least speaking for myself but I think I I can speak for the board we're not out to put anything out there

099quick and dirty that is not our intention we want something that's appropriate for Ashland and that will with understand the test of time and that is something good and though good things always take time so obviously that's up to the sustainability committee and the board as a whole not not just me but um we will have to be looking at it which is why I can't give you an answer just from me but we do appreciate your time we appreciate you coming out it's great to see all these bodies in the room and to have this kind of discussion we're honest about that we're really glad to hear all of the discourse and if you have any other comments please send them to us you can send them send them uh to the planning board

100then uh Peter machic will distribute them to both boards so all right thank you thank you all great make sure you guys have your microphones yeah I don't know that a to I'll see you later I'll keep that yeah yeah yeah you can just leave that on the edge of the table I'll I'll take care of the the me sign and cheat yeah yeah I just didn't sign and cheat yeah just you just pull it right out of there yeah oh um I guess we need to have is Ash still online oh Ash has no Ash is not we'll just say you close the public we we just going to say that the what was that Mar we will just say that the public hearing for that sustainability committee is closed because they're because they're

101all leaving okay all right everybody next on our agenda is um Clerk's report that was a big gap we have received five correspondents since the last planning board meeting and then related to Clerk's Duty I I did mention at the last um the 400 400 um what was that for the cellio tower I we we received the board received a lot of comments like right very close and and the um sort of responses that we approved to send on the board Wen did not feel appropriate to me but they also didn't fall on the we said Peter would answer specific so they're sort of a holding pattern um if the board I I believe that we do want to respond to people um so I said I sent a draft of something that was a

102little more tailored to we've received I think nine comments on that project um Peter's going to print that out he didn't get it he didn't get it printed out I'm sorry I didn't bring copies I have a copy but but it wasn't the in the materials it was a followup into the materials okay cuz I read the original I guess if there's another version no okay we can also put it up online if that's easier do you want to just put it up online yep I is going to okay yeah so um Kate had drafted a response excuse me that would be specifically for um those people that were writing in regarding the cell tower I'm sorry I I'm happy to print it too I just I have it shared on the screen so the

103first paragraph is part of our standard um I the second paragraph is the related to I think something along that lines appropriate to that that project comments which I believe I said it's total nine and hopefully some of those people heard that I hadn't so they do know that we intend to but I I don't want to wait too long I guess no I think it's appropriate um yes so really we're looking at the second paragraph here um I think even the first half of that is really just about factual what happened I would I would say for me um I would just be looking for a little rewording of the sentence that starts the board acknowledges right in the middle I was going to say the same because I think it um I think

104it starts to imply that the board as a whole is making a suggestion that residents should put together a citizen's partition when really it's not what we we didn't discuss or vote on that like it was more like a suggestion was made it was I I agree what the way I understood it was a suggestion of a of of of a a recourse that existed for those who were interested in pursuing it uh but not as something that would that was coming from the board so I'm not comfortable saying it that way not not a I don't think I'm even trying it's just a word so we just said the board we we basically heard that people were interested in in that is that true I mean that's what I no no the the the

105there was a suggestion by some of the comments from the public that the board should put a stop to the project and that the board had the authority to do so there was discussion on on on those terms and um and what was said from from the table is that we were not allowed to that by law but that efforts to change the bylaw to to make our town more more uh to to more defensive against the federal law would be a recourse for the public to enact and pass um a town hall meeting uh change of the B so what about that sentence the board acknowledges hearing tend to strike of that and then say um that there could like we're referring them to the citizens petition just simple to get rid of I

106the question is why do we need to say that I mean the I would just repeat basically it's almost like meeting notes um well not a response the the citizen I feel like I would want to be like we were valuing people here so I want to guide them if they're interested it's on the website but our website is not super user friendly so I I don't I mean if you asked 18832 people in Ashley and I don't know how many of those people would know that they could do this agreed so the intent is to kind of give them some guidelines to hey here is the like try to keep it lowkey but try to be helpful I guess is but but uh what I was just I agree with that but what I'm

107saying is that if if this is a what we're trying is to be responsive to to the questions and the things that were brought up so I think the response should squarely stay in that intent to respond and say we heard this this and that and we also discussed with the public the possibility that the public May pursue that that Avenue right to if if the bylaw is something that the public in general is not happen it's just word smithing I believe yeah exactly fure toak the it could just be as simple as instead of the board acknowledges um it could be something as simple as it was noted that um it was it was noted that um residents are always able to or res it was noted that residents are always able to um

108create a Citizens partition a Citizens petition um for consideration at town meeting the process and form for which is is is given here you know I think that works so it's it's not um yeah it's not it's not putting a board opinion on it no I I that wasn't my no I understand it's it's it's obviously hard for the four of us a long sentence for the same time to but something like that will do it because it will clarify that yeah we heard this and and the other thing is I I I don't know if Peter published Lisa me's letter with with that um case so if it's not published I think I have to attach it but if it's published I can just refer people we can just refer people too oh I

109understand what you're saying I'm happy to add that to that so then we can just say right reference that letter on see the link here we could do that hyperlink it yeah just just put a hyperlink in and that's that's 100% that's actually pretty easy that's very easy to do so we're where it says reference December letter and then I can put the link right there and then um with that sentence let me know when you're ready sure oh so in where it starts the board acknowledges instead of that it would be it was noted that residents are allowed to pursue bylaw changes through a citizen's petition through a citizen's petition um information on which can be found here or something like that yeah that's cool can I did you write it can I is

110your handwriting readable it's readable to me S writing how can it not beable let's see it's the bottom blue well okay how about like this is fine like can I just get me and Trish look at the last draft and is that I think it's fine um and we will clean that up so cool thank you and you can send it okay so next on our agenda oh public comment it seems that it seems like so long ago that we started the meeting um and there is one hand up for public comment I will I will limit it to three minutes since we've already had a lot of public comment Mr Moon can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address you have three minutes for public comment okay P 49 Road M

111good evening and the reason why I'm not there is because I S was watching the mass all that treat by law and C participation which made me feel proud that people come out to do this through um talk about it and you gave him the time and the effort and I congratulate Maji and sustainability for bring it bring it up and that letter is like you acknowledging the board's acknowledging about citizens participation for this cell phone towel too but now your understanding that Citizens need to be heard and and if they want to be heard at tell me need to have a petition that's going to be signed and and U spoke of so I'm I'm glad the board is turning around to say that this is what it is as not just the board

112being the board there are citizens that they uh know and they're out there to hear or they're hearing back from other than other than that happy New Year and um all all throughout throughout the town everything's going well and I'm know I wasn't there for that cuz little too crowded for little too crowd for me it's condensed and everything and I I was watching here on TV so thank you for the time and just a participation live what's on and stay with that thinking and be good thank you thank you Mark all right um I don't think we have any other hands raid for public participation then um next on our agenda are public hearings um first one of those is 320 Pawn Street this one has requested a continuance Peter can you just update

113about where that is yeah just a quick update uh last week the applicant uh of 320 Pawn Street met with the design Review Committee I was on the meeting and um it was a good conversation and uh the takeaway was that the um applicant is going to refresh its Landscaping plan uh after uh receiving comments from the design Review Committee and um and they're going to resubmit those on the first meeting excuse me the first design review committing REM excuse me they're going to submit comments and get back on the design review board's agenda um the first meeting in February and so we will see 230 Pawn Street on our first meeting in February so they have asked for continuance until um February 9th they've also included the um and have agreed to move the

114final date of decision to March 1st um also in our pack ET I did print out the tech review meeting um one of the comments from the tech review meeting was the placement of the dash excuse me the um dumpster enclosure um and so I have connected the fire department and the application team for further discussion regarding that trash enclosure so uh those are the big items um and uh we'll we'll we'll wait for the design review com comment letter um which hasn't been sent in and excuse me a report which hasn't been submitted but I just want to kind of bring everybody up speed on on what's going on with that project so right now they're going back to design review next before we will see them on the 8th of February ninth I'm

115sorry you have eighth on the paper wait so do I yes I'm sorry and you have eth for our next meeting so is it eth it's the eth you know what I'm looking on their request and it's the ninth you're right the eth so they're requesting to go on the ninth but it's really the eth no way I'm not being in here on a Friday night no that's a typo that's a typo yeah I I'll I'll make a motion to continue the 320 pwn pwn Street s plan approval uh to the next meeting February 8th can I make a friendly amendment to that subject to the decision um to March 1st because that was if they're pushing that right that you said that they requested they agreed to it correct oh I didn't know that

116I thought they requested but we probably I didn't know that the final date the the date of final action is agreed to be moved to March 1st okay cool okay in that case is there a second second and the roll call vote Katherine Jersey and Trisha Kendall I so that is uh continued next on our agenda is 9 to 49 hmer Avenue site plan and special permit application this is continued from November 30th um and yeah yes we have a lot of materials which is awesome we actually there um so I think the two focuses of the meeting correct me if I'm wrong Peter one is to look at the these materials which are on the other side of the desk here but also including just for Deepa is a window and um happy holidays

117and um I think the second part is just to review the um updated the items list of the outstanding items list to see where to see where that falls um but Peter do you want to give an update kind of about where that is let me introduce obviously reintroduce Terry uh Morris and Ron bour they're the application team so just to kind of note from the last time we have met um the applicant right before the holiday break they did submit revised site plans um they also have re um they have submitted a uh comment letter back to GC CG which is dated uh December 21st and then addition uh with the request of the planning board they did uh from MDM Transportation consultings submit a memorandum regarding the proposed mixed use development uh in

118a traffic count memo which was requested by gcg and so with that all this information came in uh right now it is and I've confirmed I've spoken with Terry and and Ron on numerous occasions I've also spoken to Rick Salvo who's the uh civil engineer who's not with us on the call tonight however I had a lengthy conversation with him and um all the plans and items are actually at gcg for review um I spoke to Mike Carter today uh face to face he was actually here in town hall helping out with the downtown project uh and so him and I were able to kind of touch base on the review process so he was going to do that he was going to start looking at it uh obviously I think everyone kind of stands

119everyone was on kind of holiday break uh and so that is on the top of his pile and to move this project uh and to look at look at that and so that's where things kind of stand so I feel you know that that we are in a good spot regarding the review of the Civil Engineering Process and with the submitt of the um the traffic counts on a further note I know the board asked for a email from Lisa me regarding an opinion uh I did email Lisa prior to Break um and and Lisa is working on an opinion uh I was able to speak with her uh today um she's actually in the office on on Wednesdays and so um I was able to touch base with her and she you know and

120I explained what the request is from the planning board and what's going on um and so I think I will have that to the board within days um and it won't be too long to actually have that opinion which I will share immediately with both the board and the applicant regarding the um the the special conditions and the uh grinder pump within the Wastewater system which was spoken upon by the DPW in the tech review and so that is coming it's on my radar and so it's just in process is it worth since we're talking about this stuff right now um to bring up that items list the outstanding items list and just see where we are sure I can I'm happy to do so I don't remember if if it's been up updated recently

121or so this one is from November 1 and I haven't I just haven't got around to it um I'm happy to kind of pass it around and and I think Terry I shared this with you back uh back when uh but I can just kind of read it uh number one was the environmental impact statement study excuse me environmental impact study and I think we had I almost think we and and we had something we had it and this is the the the what they had developed from the from so the my recollection of that stand that it's we when that first came I said do we have a common understanding of what that is and I don't think we do because we we got something from the applicant it was sent to gcg I

122don't think we've heard back what what that was saying is I don't think there's any contaminated soil there like I don't even think they called it like a phase one but maybe it was similar but that is not really what I was thinking based on what design review originally raised as an issue can you um yeah and I guess we have to go back and ask what what exactly we want gcg to look at then because actually I'm not sure it's worth going over this list cu this this list is actually we we've updated it since then this one is still talking about getting information from the police and fire departments which we already have those letters okay so um I hate to go back through hash through yeah yeah that instead I think we

123you know we we can update it and um is it something we can update send out and put on the website so that it's public yes yeah um yeah yeah if anyone sees questions on here that they want to adjust but it's like we've already went through a lot of these actually and just quick question because you you say gcg is is reviewing the the latest information right correct yeah so I remember in one of those meetings we said that uh we wanted gcg to aine on on this specific item is that something we can do included in let's make sure it's included in their memo so that we can actually cross it off you know I'm working with you know I'm happy to reach back out to Mike Carter today he got all the

124information he's going to take a big you know uh take a look at it and and go from there okay yeah it's just kind of important to know it's kind of what we're to know what we're asking because environmental impact study can things can mean a lot of things yeah so um and I'm not even sure what what's intended um so we'd want to go back to I think it did come from the design Review Committee to see maybe what they were looking at to see if those so so it was about like how this kind of construction could potentially have impacts to facilities near it right and that was sort of that that was the flavor of water sewer water sewer fac what do you mean facilities impact to facilities if like the water

125table and all those kind of things so it it was very broad brush I asked this question early like do we have a common understanding of I don't think we do I I think personally that I believe what the applicant submitted was sent to gcg if they think that's adequate I'm not here to reud that what I can say is it absolutely did not meet the request that the design review brought up that we all sort of thought was important to at least talk about yeah that's why I said I'll have to go back to it because I don't it doesn't sound like anyone has a clear memory of of being able to describe what that was but but just to narrow it down from from the point of view of um beyond that but

126gcg is doing the review from the point of view of construction engineering and Code Compliance that's what gcg is going to tell us yes when everything works correct at that point like Kate said we were not going to second guess gcg on that correct correct so that the important thing is that gcg includes all these whatever items that are really outstanding in their memo so that it's just just one last letter letter yeah yeah and if that's in the in the in the flavor of you know there should be no blasting there should be no whole R you know that was already that's already been taken care of already confir by the owner yeah and that's why I'm wondering because on um this isn't the latest this is a design Review Committee report to this

127so this is before Marcelo and I responded to it but I see on page five um under site and landscape and maybe this isn't the only time it's mentioned but under site and Landscape um it says we recommend that an environmental impact study be conducted to assess the impact on the surrounding buildings and their foundations yes so and I think right and and so I think that was the result of my question that resulted in my question does gcg have a recommendation not to permit blasting at the site now when we talk to Mike Carter on site Peter and I looking at the site he just said that they it it just wouldn't be done in the middle of a downtown area but if we need to want to put in a condition where we

128just call out no blasting then that's maybe that that was what I was asking for from gcg okay but you're assuming that's the only impact about blasting that's my that's that would be potentially missing other issues I think it just needs to be generic pretty much the way the design review asked asked the question of the third party not not lead them to only blasting that that's fine I'm just re I'm just saying what but also but but also not make it uh vague enough that it cannot be answered it has to be consistent with building code regulations and standard engineering practices not just widely appropriate I don't know the the the common of blasting was raised with a civil engineer here and I think even Attorney Morris or somebody in the team confirmed they're

129not going to do blasting so we could put it as a condition although we know the answer already and I think that that has been settled that's why I I'm thinking if gcg can give us a report that is comprehensive that from the point of view of the codes the regulations and the and and the uh accepted practices of engineering and construction these project complies okay that we it gives us the Assurance right right and like I said unless there was any other reference that's where I found the reference the environmental impact study maybe it was maybe there's another reference I didn't make it through the whole document but we can double check to see if there's another point of Interest under that under that subject um so so anyway the the bottom line is

130that we're still sending things to gcg to kind of make sure and to Lisa me um to make sure everything everything that we had on this list um has an answer correct and and that has been resolved but like I said I hate to go through this list because it's it's out a date we have some of this information already um so that'll be top priority to kind of get that um summarized again with the documentation the other part I think of the meeting tonight is is looking at these is looking at these colors it's look that let's do it yes and so uh Attorney Morris and and and Ron I know you're going to give your presentation from Zoom uh is there any items that you want to open up with or do you

131want me to just organize the uh the two the two uh material the two material samples uh Peter I think that our expectation was that we would be focusing on resolving the color issue since a considerable part of the last meeting the discussion at that meeting was devoted to this issue so I think it's appropriate to start with that one if you would if you would got the window okay I'm just going to take a minute and I'm going to we're going to organize everything on the table and then you can give the presentation and walk us through I will be uh dependent upon Ron to do that since uh it's an architectural item and he was responsible for assembling the materials that are before you tonight you got while you're doing that I'll if

132I'll share my screen okay I just want to turn the volume up in the room that would be helpful Peter thank you is is any louder uh Peter can you uh enable screen sharing please yeah just a little bit louder if you could wacka I got it at Max you got at Max okay um okay Ron you are a co-host thank you still the same I'm assuming I'm assuming you can see my screen with the first image you can okay just hold on Ron yep no problem we're still we're still organizing wasn't there yeah so that's yeah that's all just extra this is just extra y this is all the same that correct that one all right uh Ron I'll just monitor but uh I think the planning board is ready for the presentation all

133uh material is laid out on the table and the floor is yours thank you uh good evening everyone um so the first image we have is the uh board which represents the um the cooler colors and what's common to both options is the board that has the white trim on it so that'll be consistent and the uh the other two boards will be based on the the color tones of the building um so as you can see there should have been 11 by 17 of this image so that you could look at it against the uh materials and um this is is a an accurate representation of those I believe um so we were looking at um a brick veneer on the in on the insets that was similar to the adjacent uh Pizza building

134try and pick up that that vocabulary so that we can show that continuity uh we have the white border of the composite trims and then on the gables the lower second floor of the gables which come out um would be the 4in composite gray slate uh we'd have a water table above that and the Gable would be a shingle style and that would be the uh 7in night gray uh moving on to the area where the brick is that's the inset we would have a 6-in composite siding which is Pearl gray on the upper on the mid level and the upper level would share the same uh night gray siding uh the uh lighter Roofing color is the Owens corny dri rwood so there should be a panel there with that and the brick that

135I'll show in the next images for the paving is the uh similar to the uh downtown uh brick um so um when I show those images you'll see the patterning that we've done in the plaza for the next board which are the warmer colors um same the same you know vocabulary for the building same order things just different color pallet so the brick inset veneer is again similar to the adjacent building and then on the Gable second floor we have the 4in U baked clay with a 7in mud flats cedar shingle composite shingle above uh on the inset we have a 6-in composite straw hat for the second floor and the continuity of the shingle in the uh in the um the Dormer above the window that you've seen um on the on the rear

136wall is uh you know lowy glass uh standard window are there any questions on that before I move on to the the plaza no I don't think so so Peter and I walked the down from the downtown from the town hall uh through to the site uh to get a it was for me to get a little better understanding of both as get an understanding of how that patterning worked on the sidewalk and there's a general theme that has some nuances to it because of the width of the sidewalk and the positioning and as we uh approach the building where the sidewalk narrowed um where the pizza ument building is um we found that it would be kind of it would be possible but probably not the best use to uh use the brick on

137that very narrow section so as the build as we open up to the site we started with a border along the sidewalk uh curbing that would be consistent with the downtown and that would be a 1ot border of the um downtown brick and then we would have our concrete sidewalk and then our Plaza itself would also be of that material so now we're we're we're extending that vocabulary you've created in the down town to the to the point of being at Alden Street uh so as future development happens you'll already establish that edge and you can see from the plan with the uh sort of axon or the iso um we do have you know that that consistency it generally Falls where the telephone poles are there's one pole where it's a little more on

138the sidewalk the pole itself so the brick will basically BCT the pole but another instance is it essentially uh Falls within the field of the brick and then these are additional images from more of a street level [Music] View and that's what that's what I have for this so if there are any questions I welcome one just one quick question in this rendering H have you made any changes to the the plazas entering the the building they seem to be have more brick than I remember them but has there been any change there well one of the one of the earlier changes was to inset the benches for example in this upper level uh the upper plan to the left you'll see the bench is inset flush with the building so we took a look

139you know inset into the landscape slightly um other than that I think the reason it reads more is because there's less material than less material variety than there was before uh where earlier if you remember I had a brick the brick was at the introduction to the plaza and then we had a patterning of a different um material so by making that all the same material you've essentially you know visually uh looks like it's increased the the area but it really hasn't the material change the St I think you had the stone Pap something that which which this is yeah I love the Border bordering of that um walkway I think that really adds a little bit to the drama and there's a lot less distraction at the entry with kind of uniforming with that

140break less busy yeah but I wonder if you'll have challenge looks like your warm palette the transition and the brick seems to match exactly versus your cooler palet the transition brick and the brick that you're suggesting for the facade seems to be different so I don't know if I'm I'm sorry it was the volume was very large I couldn't make up what you were saying so this is not is not I think there's a so they did give us bricks they stole bricks I stole bricks so in the essence so I think this this is this is the correct size brick okay right but this is a little bit more orangey than what's existing so this brick is the is is is very close the color it's just the brick big it's a little bit

141big so is this so that so this kind of the same correct that's the color just the color yeah definitely yeah so I think I think the thing is like are we leaning more more leaning cool um I do I do want to say that um Ron that we appreciate the the samples like I I would say you even went above and beyond on the samples because there's some things here obviously that may maybe we don't need but to have this kind of samples this this is kind of what we needed everything labeled and it was interesting because the renderings um and kind of just the the point of how difficult it is we got the renderings my first question was where's the blue where's the blue clabber because it looks blue on the on

142the printed renderings but it's gray yeah so um it's really important obviously to to see these things I don't think we'll be hauling them outside but you know yeah that's really the double-edged sword with computer renderings is it depends what printed on yes it is can't trust it do you want to see the rendering no no you see the real step live yeah this is more you can see the renderings but the colors just don't color no so yeah don't it doesn't not the same so my question is what what what is the next step uh is this something that U or something that's part of the procedur condition or be a suggestion or no I think we can I mean um what we don't want to do is what happened with um say 12

143where we said hey we'll pick the colors later and then it comes back well and it just comes back to haunting we don't want to deal with it later so we want to deal with it right now said we picked this color palette okay that's in the it's either on the latest renderings dated blah blah blah cool scheme or whatever warm scheme whatever we pick okay so before we do that can can we ask for their opinion sure yes just to have we don't have to agree with that so uh Ron is Ron Ron uh so be before we we kind of make a um a discussion here to see which which pallet we prefer can you give us your your your designer opinion of what would you go with personally and and why so

144that that can inform what we discuss here I I think my preference would be what's on the screen and the reason being is is um I I think the colors provide interest is a little you know there's enough uh variation in them that the elements seem to pop a little more and it's also I think more in tune with the colonial nature so you're you're talking about the cool scheme the cool schee right the brick um I think if we pick up the you know that brick patterning or the brick uh coloring of the adjacent building it helps to provide that continuity of you know it looks like it it really fits in um I think we've done a lot of really good things and and I appreciate your your input as difficult as it

145was sometimes but um and um but I think that this would be my personal preference um Charlie if you want to weigh in on yours and your reasoning you know that would be great I know Charlie likes the uh the warmer colors I I think that you and the board should make the decision run okay I don't want to have them say I that's that's fine I just wanted to I know that you you know you uh seem to like the the mor thron I think we I think we kind of we're going in these two directions um because the brick in town seemed to be a cool brick but the brick of the train station seemed to be a warm brick a more orangey brick right and that's kind of got is going in

146these two different two different directions um I mean I think I prefer I think I prefer the cool scheme I think it could work either way but I think the cool scheme gives a little bit more I think I think it is a little bit more Colonial I like how it ties in with downtown which I think is more important maybe than the pathway which is so prominent in downtown is more important than tying trying to match a brick across the street I think for me um I also think it's just and maybe some people won't like this I think it's a bit more modern and this is a little bit I don't know more um rural kind of looking to me um versus the gray um but that's where I would land but I'm

147interested in wherever they El land um can you speak kind of closer to I personally agree with uh uh with Trisha I I think connecting to the downtown more directly is better and I I personally think that the variation of architecture that the building has uh has it already provides a lot of a lot of interest and variety and I I I I think those colors kind of allow the architecture to express its shape when you start adding sometimes a lot of extra color texture to to a massing or a composition it can become it can kind of distract of of of the essence and I think it's actually nice that it it goes different than what the train station is because this ties to the downtown the train station remains unique and that's I

148think it's a plus so I I agree I agree as well I think I I do love the cool palette and I think this whole project is going to be something that's literally a showcase as you turn around the corner so I don't think anybody would think of connecting the pallet on the train station to this particular project so I think there's a good uh Synergy in all those elements and I think each one picks up the ele colors from the other so I think it's a great palette that's there the warm up palette I think I it'll just merge in that it'll not be a project that's going to stand out so I don't know if we have that as an intention but I think cooler panle definitely is going to stand out so

149I love the Palette too I will let the professionals decide but I do like the um and I think I was going to point out the brick tying in like I I I remember Kevin asking for that way back and I feel like that that does help make it continuous with the downtown I think it it will look like we sort of did actually plan it all right so I looks like do we need to take an official vote on the cool PL on the cool pallet okay that would be [Laughter] nice all right I will I will make a motion that the planning board supports the cool pallet as presented um the colors as presented um for 9 to 49 Main Street second b and a roll call vote de Marcel I Katherine Jers

150and Trisha Kendall ey so there we have a color palette woohoo do I have a question do we have CU I mean probably in the decision we'll need the exact right the the color names or numbers and like yeah okay but that probably has to go part of it you can't just say the cool pallet right decision no no no I think you know I think from that point on I will take the Translating yeah we'll translate what was what was obviously you know Ron did a great job and and I and I think the application team again is they submitted to cool and the warm right what will be approved and and I can ask Ron just to kind of put an updated you know a date on it and then that will be

151approved off of that and then obviously we can mention the colors uh of the the Hardy Plank and the decision uh to kind of really kind of formalize that that's that's just kind of um adding additional language to the decision um and then kind of moving forward excuse me Pete I just W to um Trisha said 9 to 49 Main Street that's I always do that 9 to 49 Homer I always say Main Street sorry I don't know why I want to make sure we're approving the right col the right Street 9 to 49 Homer a and the one thing I will say no one brought it up but I feel like 128 Main Street looking at that building is closer to this pallet with the with a grayer with a with a more cocky

152color building so I think the the the cool is um adds a little bit of diversity which I think is a good thing yeah I think it was Navajo beige maybe over there or something like that yeah I just know there are all these Hardy Board plank terms that yeah yeah so um okay so what and and the Border along the side so in that we were also um just to confirm we were also uh approving the sidewalk design that did okay I with the I think so with the border and the I think what was presented today is much better and I think um it ties better more appropriately with the downtown project which was all along the objective including the change in the plazas now I just by looking at it you can

153you can tell that it belongs more in the downtown that that than it did before so I I don't okay do we need a well I think that'll be included the in the drawings like it'll be on the site plan or whatever yeah I I guess these renderings or whatever the final ones should be included as SP so there's a record there'll be a record obviously I think as a PL obviously the the the revised C plans from a from a civil standpoint are being reviewed but yeah and I'm sure you know Terry and Rick will update those plans to include the brick this the brick stripe that is is obviously throughout the downtown yes so I would say it would be good to um I'm sure you're not in a hurry to come haul

154all this way again but it would be good to have it in the office so that Amanda and um Anna can at least see what we were looking at yeah before before that is before the the ones we aren't using are picked up the ones that were're and actually if you if you put them like that ideally outside and just take a picture and have the picture part of the record okay I can do that that's not a problem uh yeah no I can keep these in the office for Amanda and Anna as they come in and they can kind of check it out so yeah I'm not sure they've had a chance to to take a look and see so yep that's no problem I'm happy to do that do so all right then

155do we have anything else um on this project tonight it seems like we got over we got through a big hurdle here tonight um I think that's correct Madam chair and that and then we have other things that are are going to gcg we're waiting for Lisa me and we'll go through that list kind of with the fine tooth comb but I think we're getting down to the nitty-gritty on that list as well yeah I think we're getting down to the to the to the to the eliminating items one by one I think we just need to continue to do so and and and with respect for both parties and we just can kind of obviously move you know kind of you know Trot through the process and uh and move forward great all right

156and I obviously I'll continue working with Terry and and and Ron and and Rick and Charlie and uh and and and Terry I'm sure I'll be on the phone with you tomorrow then when would we be looking uh um when would we looking to see this again are we looking two weeks I think two weeks I think two weeks is appropriate um I think at this point you know I think I'm I'm expecting to you know hear from Lisa and from and from um and from excuse me uh Mike Carter soon and and I can also express some of these points of interest that need to be addressed and so I think we should have a good update uh of where things stand at the next meeting um and then also um with 320 Pond

157coming back in February I think there's plenty of room on our next agenda uh in in our next agenda we will also hear uh well I'll finish that later but obviously I think we have room in our next agenda and and we can kind of move continue to continue the momentum all right so maybe in the meantime um you and I can work on the updated list and get it out to the board with any documentation that goes along with that list and that'll leave room for anyone to ask any address any remaining questions anything that is still jumping out um as part of that yeah I don't think I know we've talked about a bunch and I'm sure it's on the radar screen but I don't think that sustainability checklist is on here did

158I did I miss it and I know you said that has to be updated but I don't think that's on here yeah I think it's on the I think it's on the new version okay but um I'll add it to this one to check so Madam chair yes um so when are we looking to come back and I'm wondering if there's a uh depending upon the intervening period whether it's appropriate to to work on a draft decision um I mean I I'm always in favor of working on the draft sooner rather than than later because there's a lot of information to make sure we put in there like the colors or the sustainability thing so um yeah I mean if Peter if you have time to start we start to put that together because that's

159a long discussion even once we get to looking at the decision to go through it Point by Point yeah I think um a s no I think I'm I'm I'm I'm happy and I think I'm ready to kind of take a look at it you know I think uh everything in hand you know I can I can start to do that so is that is that okay with the board obviously that is not the same as a vote but sometimes I also feel it starts to clarify and help helps us to pinpoint issues um yeah the majority of this is also resolved so it's just like boiler plate that may help us to kind of nail down some of those finer details right yeah okay right right okay so then we will be continuing this

160until our next meeting on June 25th no June I'm sorry January 2 we'll continue uh 9 to 49 Main Street until June 23d yeah that one was on purpose all right can I have uh someone who's going to make the motion properly I make a motion we continue the hearing for 9 to 49 Homer after to meeting on February 8 oh no January 25th January 25th two weeks okay I'm sorry that 9 to 49 Homer site plan special permit application to January 25th and a second roll call vote Marcela I Katherine Jersey I and Trisha Kendall I and we already have uh yes the date is already out there somewhere yep March 1st okay mhm okay M Madam chair thank you very much we're very happy that you're pleased with the uh with the color

161scheme well thanks for uh I'm sorry it's very old school of us but uh thanks for hauling all the stuff in it obviously made it it just made it much easier to look at you know so thank you for that your most welcome all right so we'll see you in two weeks okay Happy New Year you too all right next on our agenda um [Applause] we'll go for item six so there any is there any updates or reports anything there I do not have any I'm sorry we all had a holiday um there are some things under seven uh um Kate do you want to give a report on comprehensive plan um just sure to remind people the next meeting is January 18th and we will have an update from the consultant about the public

162forum and then we're getting heavy into the um like recruiting public opinion phase so you all start working on your friends and and a plan to engage them yeah I'm also really interested in uh and I'm sure the information's coming in the proper order but the meeting in a box concept and what that is and are we a meeting in a box like does that something will happen even at the planning board level is that really for the more the Committees further down um it it's all of the above I mean it's really to recruit um as many people as possible it's to the widespread and and thinking that some people won't be able to come out or can't come to a form but it's more on their own time like I could do a

163Wednesday night in my living room and I get a few neighbors oh but it's not it's not in any way to limit like I I um haven't really gone forward but I way back in the summer I talked to some of the people the senior at Park Road and they have a activity room and like meeting there and getting people so it's really all of the above and as many people as possible in that meeting in a box kind of format like I assume that's a I'm just kind of curious what it is I mean she she keeps the consultant no I know I asked for the elevator speech version of it because I've been recruiting people but I can't you you need the elevator speech version yeah I'm curious about this we don't have

164it I mean hopefully January 18th I can try to ask again CU I think it's so familiar to them it's it's a con I mean you can look up the concept she said I didn't invent it but okay I think the general thing is you took one of those surveys it's a version of that that at a smaller scale keep replicating someone came to your meeting you asked them to go do five of their friends MH um I would like I hope that we can get to the point of doing like a business round Table Right of a separate you know meeting in a box for the business Round Table separate like sustainability whatever I mean it's going to take a lot of effort um so I think that will see how it shakes out

165but that would be my goal I already have a list of like 40 people that I'm I got one no so far they didn't say they know they won't come they said no they won't host it so um yeah all right but yeah all right cool because this is a big next stage you're entering into the next six months are kind of the critical information gathering right data Gathering so okay um all right design Review Committee I do have a couple things on that um yes it and actually I printed out was that something I was supposed to hand yeah yes this is so um on I think it was December 12 December 12th right which was yeah we're right in the middle of a lot of other things I think but a talent Bank

166form did come in for David uh I don't know how to pronounce that spatara spatara spatara um so I think since that time since December 12 he has attended a design commit uh design review committee meeting I think they are going to be having some kind of report or summary for us you know on that um so maybe on our next meeting we will be having uh David come to the next meeting and I may try to reach out to him before that on behalf of the planning board if everyone thinks that's a usually I do so thinks that's a good idea I think on this it really said select board but of course select board isn't um involved in this particular this is the one committee that select board isn't isn't involved in so

167um um design viw committee is looking for more people to add they have one opening in the alternate like there's two alternates and they have one opening as an alternate member but um I so the design Review Committee met on Thursday um it's recorded it's a little bit of a bear to download the recording but if anyone wants it Peter has it and so I watched that recording because it was it involved um 320 Pawn Street Mazy so I wanted to see how that went um and then they had also talked about this candidate at the end and I had I had really forgotten that I had glanced this in my email I think it went to all of us but on December 12th and immediately got buried and and everything else that was going

168on so um so I went back and looked and Peter we found this and we printed it out and um I already apologized to the design Review Committee that I I didn't see it you know know um and no one no one from the design Review Committee witched out about it either so I think everyone was just busy but then this I assume this will be on our on our next meeting looking at this application so for that position um the other thing I just wanted to make sure I reviewed um with the planning board in regard to that meeting so that that was the meeting they were looking at Mazy and they had received um the planning board memo that you guys had received to I think received it more recently Marcel and I

169put it together right before Christmas um but I wanted to get it to them before their January meeting and um We spelled out things according to the bylaw as we did for 9 to 49 hom RAV um and the things that are defined under the the bylaw that describes the design review committee's um jurisdiction so we did that and sent it to them there was a little and and they and they went through those they you know they went through those there was a little con confusion at the end of the meeting about um because we had referenced Marcel and I had referenced on there to review the sustainab check sustainability checklist in reference to the items that we listed below like in reference to the bylaw so at the end of the meeting they

170were they were kind of I think a little confused about oh we didn't go through the sustainability checklist we didn't talk about solar panels we didn't talk talk about EV stations we didn't talk about is the building all electric so in a in an email I sent to them that you know just just to respond that that um that they seem to be right in the Wheelhouse on their meeting about what we had asked them to do but those other aspects like things on the sustainability list like EV station solar panels that they're really in the jurisdiction of the planning board which is what we discussed at n for 9 to 49 Homer in making those distinctions and that things like um storm water go to Conservation Commission as we started to like I said

171kind of Marcelo and I figuring that out back with 9 to 49 Maine through the bylaw yeah what I would have taken out of it is those elements in that sustainability checklist that pertain to design is what their focus should be like if there is a solar panel on and Architectural facade or the roof um it impacts the design of that project so that's what they have bike racks and all those that's a checklist that the material checklist is what they should be looking at on TV stations I guess so that wouldn't be ultimately I I think the process seems to sort of be working better I think than before I was on the board so like if we could pretty simply take that checklist the sustainability checklist in market and it's purple it goes

172along with these things I think right yeah that might be a good idea I haven't gone back to look at the sustainability checklist and say these things actually do fall under the bylaw and that's a good idea to see if they it's a good idea because it can become vague right or like okay and then occasionally said no solar panels cuz no but it really is this some Oddball R so I'm just trying to like ultimately simplify maybe it doesn't nothing maybe ever a cookie cutter completely but to not have that doesn't how to spell it out yeah so I and it's different when it's a renovation than when it is a new construction you yeah oh at least you know we can at least go back and take a look at the sustainability checklist

173and see if it easily kind of pans out that way or if it immediately gets kind of tricky and muddled um but I think it's more just a it maybe just like a routine of going through that the same thing you know each time um yeah so I just wanted to make you aware of that conversation that went back and forth just just recently with with for the design Review Committee to try to keep the process kind of streamlined and to be to to start a to continue a pattern that we started with 9 to 49 is what I was hoping to do okay um sustainability committee I think we got that covered um and I don't oh there was something else wait a minute oh it was um I made a note to myself

174under other it was um Metro West um communities Metro West communities what's it called metros uh Regional collabor Regional no the uh the the housing around the train station MBTA oh MBTA thank you MBTA communities um but because it isn't on our list but under just wanted under other we're looking at um you obviously we had a break Alo was away he's back now and so this is one of Peter and El's top priorities this is my top priority the MBTA communities so we are looking at um and just yesterday we were discussing this about having a um maybe a a kind of a for like we did here about MBTA communities for the public to EXP AB yeah explain the regulations um explain kind of where we are now about where what we think

175we're going to do it's not finalized yet because there's still a lot of questions out there but this is what we're intending start to get feedback on that so we get that public discourse we need to consult with um Joe who's also on the committee Joe manani but we were hoping that maybe at the very end of January to still have that in January but at the same time be moving forward with um boy the spreadsheets and the questions and the consultant correct yeah we have a consultant uh we did receive a grant from Mass Housing Partnership so we do have a consultant um they I've been in contact with them however they they've been swamped obviously with other with all working all these different type of different communities so um we've uh we talked

176to him before the Christmas break holiday break and uh and and we are in the queue uh however I'm still looking to touch base with them um um and and so we've had emails sent out and so we're we're trying to um schedule our next meeting to kind of take a look at steps and where we need to go um however on our side you know Alvaro has done a great job you know working with the gis creating the layers but also more importantly getting into into the state compliance model because that's where the rber really hits the road and understanding where our bylaws need to be edited and or and how our bylaws going to affect the rate of De I mean the the the units per per Zone and so he's doing a

177lot of that Alvaro he's back um he had a great Break um and and so him and I are really kind of starting to crank next week on on what the compliance model looks like uh changes to the bylaws that need to be made um in addition to our consultant our consultant um was needed in acquired because we the board and the board of selectman decided if you remember to go back and to do a um an economic feasibility study um regarding the uh percentile of affordable housing units that we want to include within our bylaws uh within our bylaw change so not to rehash the entire conversation but right now communities are are kind of having to get in the green light to allow for hey Lo Mee still going on yeah I know

178think I think that's just my computer I'm sorry are you talking about to allow for greater than 10% affordability correct yeah so the co consultant is to both see if we can get greater than 10% affordability and to help us in writing a general bylaw right yeah those two things that's funny I think I I think it's great that we're getting a consultant for that and maybe I agree with having a public for for that because that is impacts the entire town I think that's very important we did get an email from somebody relative to this that I in my view raised pretty good points relative to the philosophy of how this is being approached and maybe that's one of the first items that I think should be discussed with the consultant because because it

179was it from from the big picture point of view I think what I understood from that communication is uh you yeah you can find ways to go around trying to comply with but that does not address the the the real or the essence of what the the thing is being proposed for is just for compliance and I think it's a good point that should be yeah I agree I think the where the working group kind of landed was because that strip that was in was in part of our analysis right yeah was we're kind of waiting we have this comprehensive plan process going and we have to make kind of these big decisions so trying to weigh in of you know do we sit back and wait a little bit for comprehensive plan what are

180our options of places we might have to include anyway to to meet the requirement and that's partly why I think the the meeting comes into play too to try to understand how the public feels about that about um more more businesses say more mixed use um at the train station in in that zone um I think those are real questions to the mixed use is a little um uh they recently I mean a couple months add that it's potential for mixed use under the MBTA um communities but the I think it's really tight and I don't think it would apply because it calls it you're downtown and it can only right now and again things change next month they might edit that again but it it says only in your downtown and so I don't

181think we can say that's our downtown um I guess we have to see what the I guess have to see what the actual rules are yeah I think the way I the way I understood it is that you can require mixed use but the square footage of that commercial can't be counted for residential for the units well obviously yeah it's not residential but I think it also I I recall reading it was it was pretty tight about that because they that would allow them to say well you already have a downtown commercial right they they don't want you to introduce under that law introduce commercial somewhere else yeah I mean I think it's I think that's a good question for Emma yeah I can reach out but yeah and and I think that I agree

182having a Consultants we have contacts the state obviously and so that's a good question that I can we can put forward and and the questions about that um strip I didn't mean to even like go down the path of mixed use but whether we want that to be high density higher density residential that's a question for you know to throw out there too right to have and that discussion whether it's mixed use or whether point of order because I feel like other when we're getting more discussion about something that's pretty heavy in people's eyes probably shouldn't maybe continue without being an agenda item yeah I just I feel like it's it could be perceived as we weren't trying to be transparent and I I know that's not the case but that's fine I don't really

183want to go into it either I mean Marcel did you have a point that you want wanted to finish that no I I I agree with that not just just the point that they were just rehashing what happened last meeting there were opinions on that area yeah and I'm just pointed it out because we got a communication relative to what was discussed um and and they were opinions that that that may not hold when you have a big a big Forum so the the fact of trying to open it up to have these type of discussions I think that's the yeah the way for so that that was the whole point that what we wanted to do is to hold a forum similar to what we did today on that to really get the information

184out there we have a lot of information to share and a lot of options to share so to get that kind of feedback all right that's what I was trying to see it was on my sticky that's what I was trying to remember um yeah okay so that's that are there any updates that we need to go over is there an 501 that need uh no there's really no update to 501 um I know there was some emails going around but um at this point I have no confirm you know trass development still owns the property they still manage the permit um that permit was obviously issued a little late little over a year ago and so that special permit is still live for how long so in our bylaws it's two years so one

185more year two yeah one more year uh and so I haven't had any update from from anybody that it is passed on to a new developer uh Andor um they have they they've chosen not to go forward so um obviously it's it's still you know uh status quo at this point uh just to make not Starbucks is continuing with construction um you can kind of see they put the roof on uh they continue get they continue to get building perit I mean building application I mean building excuse me um inspections and so that is moving forward the next up is we are waiting uh for Starbucks to submit um a building application for the interior of that building for the fit out uh that actually comes from Starbucks not the owner of the building and

186so that's our next step on that project but things are moving along smoothly over there uh and those are the two big items um regarding uh projects that are ongoing Village of the americaas I haven't had an update uh I should I haven't reached out to the developer there uh since coming back from Christmas break but that Chestnut Street Chestnut Street yes I drove by today it looks like things are moving along and again I can tell you they've been receiving building inspections annual I mean obviously weekly uh and so I have not had any red flags come come off of that one yet can I move on to administrative matter b um I think everyone knows um we had a new application the Ashland Brewing LLC doing business as Clover Road Brewing this is

187for five 151 Main Street this is actually the old fire station so at the next hearing we're going to hear the application of that it's for site plan review and so we'll meet the owners what's going on I I believe I've sent that have I sent that information out to everybody no it's going to be up online to it's we've sent it out to uh I think we've sent it out to everybody um and uh and so we're moving forth and so that will be on our our next agenda did did the historic Commission get that do they know about it uh you know what there's a great point and I'll I'll make sure that they go out there and the building is still owned by the town right this is a lease correct so

188this is a lease um the building is still owned by the town the second floor of the building still has Town property in it um and so so Culver Road is going to be taking the basement the first floor and uh the basement area and they're going to have access to the second floor where there's employee bathrooms and there's a there's old actually kitchen up there for that the fire department used to use um in so but this area but the lease will cover the building uh and most and really most important that first floor of of the truck Bays um I haven't you know Alvaro got back on Wednesday until so him and I are just been playing catchup so we'll get that up online and out to everybody you know as soon as

189possible so uh that's just been a little bit of Hiccup and and we'll take care of that and then really our next meetings uh our next meeting is January 25th February 8th and just as a reminder uh the second meeting in February is the 5th Thursday uh and it is a leap year so uh to celebrate the 29th of February we're going to have a PO plany board meeting remember yeah and then other than that I do want to mention and I do want to thank uh Linda Kane if Linda Kane is out there and watching this meeting Linda Kane has been our um has produced the minutes for the town of Ashen planning board for about 11 years and so Linda Kane is moving on I did receive a letter before the email before

190the holiday that she is resigning her post and uh and she wanted to thank the Plenty board in town of Ashland uh and and I think the Plenty board and Trisha did uh with an email thank Linda for her for her service to the board but I just want to publicly uh thank her and acknowledge the work that she's done for the board so um and so the last two minutes of November 30th and December 14th were done by Linda uh and I want to just thank her again so we're starting on a clean sleep so Trish now you got left by Preston you're left by Linda no one likes me yeah it's um it it's actually amazing that she um and I'm not I don't even know if I've ever met her but it's

191amazing that she was seemed determined to finish all of our meetings like December 14th that was our last meeting and until today so man kudos to her that's just amazing the question is do we have someone else uh we do so in the short term uh we're going to be we're going to be taken care of uh and in the long term I think we're still ironing some issue iron out that situation all right but DEA looked like she said she want to do it Deepa really read it in her eyes oh yeah you have to buy that vowel yes we'll get you the EB back all right so we're looking at the meeting minutes of uh November 30 November 30th give Deepa one e is this the one that I had I had given

192you just a couple things I don't remember what they were though it was very minor I think I I think I yes do you want to put a reference on line 54 Miss Kendall asked about item e signage or concerning signage is that like are we attaching the report to reford what item e is about oh we can do we can attach the the I don't know if there's a simpler way to do it or would you just say item e item e concer just elaborate what IEM you was I don't know that's easier so yeah item e was just a present a generic indication of signage locations um so we could say item e regarding indication of signage locations or something like that just to give it like to give a little indication of

193what it was about otherwise I don't think I had any changes why oh jeez spell oh this is what what is the game show can I have a te can I have it yes 8 yes she's Vena gotcha does anyone have any comments on November 30th or do you need more time ready for a motion yeah I think so make a motion to accept the November 30th 20203 planning board meeting minutes with the small edits mentioned second rollot Marcel Kath Jersey gu TR kend I okay on to December 14th dea's name again for there is one last name missing on line 101 I don't know if that would be on the tape for tell me when everyone's good yep good so just that last name yeah and dea's name in in the attendance got and

194I'll go back and answer for that yeah otherwise just just seems like the only one missing okay are you good Kate okay um all right is there a you want to make another motion Kate I'll make a motion to approve the December 14th meeting minutes second we'll do it as amended as amended yeah all right uh roll call vote you and goodby marcelona I cathine Jers I and Trisha Kendall I does anyone have any further anything to add at the end of the evening we did get we we did get writing from the 320 Pond to extend to March 1st I saw the one for 9 to 49 Homer but yeah it was from it was on the last meeting we haven't oh I'm only saying because we just read the minutes this said February

1959th so I got worried the minutes that we just read said we extended it to February 9th oh to febru okay um and someone said they saw it I didn't see it but I'm fine if you all saw it that it's it's extended to March 1st everything so this continuance to stamp on on December 13th so in the second paragraph if or don't me read it from the top read the important part I guess I read the important therefore it seems prudent to extend the time for a reasonable period that would allow for the board to fin fin action without a need for further extension accordingly this letter will constitute an agreement by the applicant W JK Homer LLC to extend to extend said time until March 1st 2024 if necessary she's talking about Pond

196oh 320 P sorry 320 pond because these meeting minutes say we're extending till February 9th correct and now today meeting minutes we're going to extend it further out to March 1st so there was a new continuance yeah but we so when it came up I said subject I wanted to put a friendly Amendment you said no we don't need to it's in writing and I'm fine with it but I I'm just confused well at that meeting yes we moved it to February 9th however at the at the at the continu the continuance memo that we accepted that's the one we do okay have doation for March 1 no that's fine I just yeah yeah take final action so and this is from Josh Klein okay Chase Bank soen this came after that so yeah so

197so we're good yeah yeah I'm sorry I was I thought you were confus on projects okay so oh um so anything any announcements anything else hanging out there that we need to address all right so Kate and I will do that one little response letter thing yeah I'm sure you I'll tweak it and you'll probably I missed something but that's why I wanted to help but it's simple yeah either if you can read my writing and um Peter and I will work on the that list yeah I'll get together with you on that list and we'll get that out so that everyone has it and can respond to it otherwise I think we're otherwise I think we're good right will the sustainability team come back with for the Tre while I think I'm I'm just

198going to I think they just have to meet with their committee and decide kind of how they want to because there was a lot that got dumped out there yeah okay so certainly not the certainly not the end of that discussion it's a tough discussion it is oh yeah some clear buckets that needed attack so I think they were very clear there was a pattern in the conversation that I think it's easier if you just boil it down to those four three four topics though yeah so we'll see take I'll take a breather and then see where it goes next I will say has been working very hard on it for the last couple months and um it's come a long way it's come a long way it's it's um it's a tricky it's a

199very tricky tricky bylaw because it's not just about a tree right it also reaches into and I think it is a property race because don't go too deep here Peter we're trying to end the meeting so a lot of things to think of okay yeah no Rabbit Hole make a motion to stop Peter do I have a second all right so I will uh make a motion to adjourn the meeting at 9:33 second second uh roll call vote Catherine Jers and Trish K all right thanks everybody