001all right we'll start this uh February 13th special school board high school and we start open up first thing we just approve the agenda so do I hear a motion to approve the agenda Mo thank you have second thank you Ming all those in favor questions or comments all those in favor say yes yes yes yes that I and if you choose to have a moment silence have a moment Sil [Music] this thank you very much chairman cross I'm sorry to interrupt could you have move the microphone just a little closer you stand for a moment United States of America stand [Music] indice this time [Music] pass about is it green it's uh press it one time quickly that'll unmute it about now uh that one's muted now how about good morning um I want
002to just start by thank you all for taking time out of your day to do this I know this is extra on top of what you normally be doing today for taking the time to meet with us um and share your thoughts on some of the policies that we have um presented as just a starting point um I really think the more I look over parts and pieces of these and if you if you look you can see I've got Stu highlighted I've got stuff checked off I've got I've got stuff so I have kind of a starting point but we want to talk with you all um just to get an idea of just a like we'll start some basic things on like Library collection I think just asking you all to share about
003how you build your collections things like that and then we'll get into I think the policy things that you have seen in here that you're like heck no don't do that um that's a terrible idea or we like that that's something that we can all play with we think that is a good thing so those are the kind of that's kind of where we're going today I think um yeah how want me to start with just some basic questions I mean I know all all board members probably have some questions at some point that they'll throw out but um I've kind of got a C little list to start with um first question is if you all could share um how you all you all can take turns maybe I don't know if you've elected
004a somebody to kind of give a general broad overview um if you could share maybe how every year you all the money by the county can you share how much you're given um and how you go about selecting books to purchase um how often you make those purchases and a little bit of the process in how you can't pick them all right because we have a limited budget so how do you go about picking what does go into your collection um open the floor just do you want me to pass a mic okay um before they answer your question I think the libraries would just like to introduce themselves um so that it seems a little more personal maybe you don't know them um I know some folks have come to their libraries but um
005so let me give an opportunity just to go down and then um I'll turn the microphone I think over to Tim to share some things and they'll answer those questions okay I'm Patty Evans I graduate from Turner asy many years ago I taught French and Spanish at Bradway high school for 20 exuse 19 years and I've been a librarian at Broadway for two years and for 19 at Turner [Music] Street hi I'm Amy Johnson um I'm actually from page20 so I didn't graduate from a rock County school um but I did go to Bridgewater College and students it Broadway High School in 96 um and I moved to Northern Virginia after that to start my teen career but I really missed the valley and wanted to come back and raise my kids here so I
006taught English for 22 years and decided that I wanted to be in a position where I could reach and affect more lives so as a librarian for the past 5 years I've been able to build relationship with students through literature that um I feel has impacted a lot of lives hi my name is Jessica K and I'm the librarian at Ela middle school I graduated from James Madison University and I began my teaching career in St City where I taught sixth grade English for four years before moving to Mount View Elementary and so I was a fifth grade teacher at Mountain View Elementary and now I've been in the library for the last n years and it has been the most impactful work I have gotten to do with students today because instead of a
007family of 20 students each year I now have over 600 who I get to meet build relationships with and help them experience the love of learning I'm Eric Walker and I'm the librarian at East Ro high school I graduated from spotwood um I taught in count for a while and video teaching English Ming to e and is the abute dream job being Tim Bell I'm a Broadway grad back in the day I I'm graduating from J student teaching at wiberg pens and then I landed there in seventh grade English for 20 years made the transition the library at TA 3 years ago I think the the best part of that is got to follow my kids up to Mary Frank I'm the librarian at J Frank Billard Broadway graduate um 26 years of teaching 17
008is a specialed teacher five in elementary the rest at Billard and I got lucky enough to get the job as a librarian this is my nth year as a librarian I love it I'm a r I'm a librarian at MD school um I'm awood graduate um I then graduated from JMU um and got my Master's in counseling at um Eastern Mite University and started my career as a counselor for Harrison City um I then moved to FKS was a librar man for six years and been for n I'm Julia Hall I um graduated from aale high school in fairfx county and um raised my three children who all graduated from Turner rashy High School here in Rockingham County great place to raise your children and I was a school counselor also graduating from JMU in
009elementary school and then um got earned my um endorsement for school library median I've been a school librarian for 19 years at Rob Pence Middle School love it my favorite job ever so um would appreciate the the grace to say just a couple of things before we dive into your specific questions if that's okay um like I said I'm I'm Tim and we would would like to thank you for the opportunity to be included in today's meeting um we appreciate the opportunity to give voice to this process I think a lot of the shock and and the hurt and the stress that that we experienced kind of came from from the fact that there were some decisions that were that were made that that struck us a little BL about issues that that we weren't
010weren't as aware of um we as Librarians support students and their families um we absolutely believe in in parental rights and we encourage absolutely every parent to be involved in their students reading life we work hard to meet the needs of our students and to address the concerns of parents so we really do sincerely appreciate this opportunity to give inut collaborate on on the solutions to the issues that you all are are currently working to thanks for the invitation to be here as Librarians we don't oppose reconsideration of books um when there are concerns we welcome them and we recognize that to do otherwise would just be a well an exercise and futility um that would be denying our own ability as individuals the challenge policies that we all have in place um are there
011exactly for that contingency none of us wants inappropriate materials on the shelves of our libraries that's why we have those reconsideration policies to give voice to parents and to protect students if we make a mistake that's why we have those things we certainly can and hopefully will have discussions about how we go about meeting the needs of a collection that provides the the breadth and the depth that it should and in a high school situation to meet the needs of that innocent freshman and and yet that that fifth year senior who's already married um what we all desire is an opportunity to have a personal conversation with a parent when they're is a concern most of us have never had a book challenged it's my understanding been four formal challenges in the last 10 years
012I I hear you say and I appreciate you having said in the past that you see us as professionals to me this is reminiscent of my days in seventh grade English and when I taught A Wrinkle in Time um or another another text that I used to highlight something if a parent had a concern and express that to my principal or or never but it had it been expressed to a superintendent or or a supervisor or a school board member that was sent back to me and I was asked to engage with that parent and and whenever that happened I was able to meet with that parent and either allay their fears or come up with a solution that satisfied them every single time most of us here you heard we've given a large chunk
013of Our Lives to to Rock County in this school system some of us have given the entirety of our professional careers to this system we would [Music] never we would never see har a kid that is never we would never presume to parent that is not our goal our job is to educate and we do that well we would love to hear your specific concerns and I appreciate you jumping in with that because we feel like there are solutions to the to the the questions that have been raised we feel like there are solutions that that we can all agree on and and find to be effective for students and parents and Librarians and teachers and and all stakeholders involved and so again I I thank you for today's conversation and we want you to
014know that we are open to this dialogue now and and as you move forward um I want I want to we've gotten from 9:45 with with group okay so we want to be able to ask questions give feedback this is what this out today so thank you for sharing with us but we're at m 16 now so we want to be able to hear as much information back from you guys as we can and so as first if you'll repeat the question so we can get back and get going on this I don't I want to get as much feedback from you guys we can if we don't have a whole lot until [Music] :5 thank you for sharing that and for sharing a little bit about yourselves and your careers um my my person
015just to starting question um tell me about how you all um tell me you're given each year to spend um some of you all do Book Fairs um which also adds to collection um and then just a little bit about how you decide how you way decide there's thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of books right so um just go ahead and give a little bit of insight into how you select how you pair it down um I think we're curious to know do you make these decisions like does each School say 15 books I know it's these are the 15 this year um and another school says he these is there a collective like Middle School kind of decides together uh High School decides together just kind of share a little bit about
016that process for you all I I'll just start and tell you what I know um we have $4,700 in in our our budget that comes from the county for books um we don't hold Book Fairs at the high school what oh um am I right that's right um we don't hold Book Fairs we do do some fundraising um on the side to try and supplement that that that covers books and everything else that that we would would purchase for the library um as far as deciding what books there would not be a universal list that all high school librarians would share um a big part of it has to do with trying to to curate text that meet the needs of our populations and if you look at the population of TR asley High School
017certainly we share a lot of commonalities with there are a lot of differences say to to eastrock and so where I am looking for um for many of the same texts I'm also looking for for some some texts that are different um we do often talk a big part of when we get together for INS Services is to share books and and books that we've read and books that that are our students are engaged with it's like oh yeah You' got to have this one you know this this is a great one but when when students make make recommendations teachers make recommendations um we will I I spend a lot of time the library Journal um reading the the reviews some of them positive some of them not not so positiv as far as books
018that they've looked at um we look at Award winners of award um books consider all of those and and once we compile a list and I we're Co Librarians and we keep up a running list of of books that we're considering and then we will go through and and look at um typically te is is a great resource that we have access to and use that allows us to look at professional reviews of those books and we'll we'll read those paying attention to age R age range recommendations and those sorts of things um there are other um there are sometimes other um other resources that that I will I will check and I'll reference but we we made those decisions about what books fit our library and and fit our populations um and those recommendations
019can come from a wide range of places but ultimately like we dig into what is what is known about those books the professional reviews are a big thing that we rely on before ordering those certainly we read as many as we can um but that's that's L muscle Title Wave is is part ofet um and I believe it's something the county like is provided through the county and what they do is is um part of what they offer is is they compile some of those so we don't have to have a subscription to all the different profession Rev use kind of all their to access hi I'm going to speak on behalf of middle school but I also know that many of us here have brought our collection development policies I know these were all
020sent to Katie Lira but I think that's going to answer a lot of your questions so at this time we have your permission to come forward and give you our collection development policies which P many of the answers to the questions you have regarding our selection policy the frequency in which we select and how we determine what texts go into our Liv just a funding answer Sarah to your question um the libraries in our schools receive money based on a formula actually Dr shifflet and I came up with that formula early on in my tenure in this role years ago um libraries got Federal funding that was cut out was PTY title something Title Five that no longer is available so um the county provides uh funding based on student populations so each year when
021I do the budget which actually now is on aby's budget um but I help her with the library portion of that budget um we look at those formulas because our student populations change so it's per pupil um I think and again I don't have it in front of me but I can provide it later it's a little over $7 um I think is the number we use and you have to remember that with inflation um we are well underfunding um libraries the cost of books has risen dramatically um a single hardback book or if you're looking at in particular elementary schools you order bound books so that there's a walker life and we're better using our resources um if we think it's a book that's going to stay like an award winner the calicot the
022Newberry and so forth maybe all have this information right off the top of your head how many uh in your libraries based on your student population how many books per student do you have have we have about eight eight per student [Music] the American Association of school librar means anywhere between 10 and 20 per students I think I read okay um when tell me what happens um for you when a parent or if a parent would come to you with concerns about information um some you have said you know not everybody's encountered a CH you know a challenge or a request I know I have at the elementary level and it was so it was minor right um but I went to the library and she's um it's not it's not you it was before
023you and before that I don't anyway but there was a book that came to my attention because the kids were giggling over it um and I I you know I was like you know so I look at it and it maybe had some information that was I mean it was it was okay but I was like so I went to the library we had a nice conversation about it um we disagreed I can't I really can't this is like maybe gosh 10 years ago I can't remember what happened to that book um but we we did have a conversation kind of what insued after that was all the the boys were Googling things right um as they do and so um so all that to say what does that look like for you if you've
024encountered it um if you you know a parent comes and opens up a book and says here's some sexually explicit information or content that's really concerning to me what do you say um I'd like to speak to that first um I I was a an English teacher like I said for years and have been a librarian for five and when I was an English teacher teaching lots of novels parents would often come to me and say I don't want my child to read that book and I would say oh well here's another book are you comfortable with this um so there were always you always conversations and um as a librarian though um complaints have come in the form of social media posts that um my son has drawn my attention to um so as
025a librarian not once have has anyone called to have a conversation with um but I have been a victim of of um complaints on social media that that my son brought my attention to that I addressed um um with that person and that person and I um were able to come to an agreement but it was only after I approached him and let him know that we're human beings and when our books um are brought to the attention of social media without first bringing them to us in a conversation you know that's that's difficult for us I think I speak for most of us when I say we all welcome par conversations just say when I was in the classroom I welcome parent conversation open dialogue in the library welcome the same thing I Echo
026what Miss Johnson said in my nine years at Al Middle School I have not had a parent formally come to me specifically to discuss concerns with any items in my libr so I welcome those conversations and would gladly have those and parents would love to come to me with [Music] concerns just perspec so I think that it depends on the parent because when I came to e high school last year I had a parent I am a Community member and I have gone to school with many of the parents that I had a students in my library I had a parent reach out to me over the we and I told her i' get back to her on Monday about a concern that she had so I sat and had a long conversation with her
027on about concerns she had a check out I explained to her that our library is meant to serve students who are ages 14 to 20 because it is a high school population um we talked about how she could help her child books that were inine with the family values that they had um I showed her how she can check the check history of her students books I asked her what PA she wanted me to take going forward whether it was making sure that her daughter was not checking out any books that I was aware of that would conflict with their values know that I not read every single book in the library and she also needed to know and keep what her child Wasing um the book that she actually brought to my attention when
028I looked at it and measured it against my policy I decided to to remove that book from the library because it was not in align with the selection policy that I had WR for the library and so concerns it opens dialogue and it gives us a chance to go process that we have all WR into our section polies and I think that all of us the hardest thing to do but the most important thing for a child's education is for the people who are interacting with the student in the school is to reach out and talk to the parents every single time I've had Lov moment in the classroom or a terrible moment in the classroom with a child I reach out to the parents and we make that human to human connection and we're
029able to find Solutions and I think that's so during this I removed over 60 books for my shelves I not received a single complaint about any of those books and I don't have any theor of why parents AR follow foll the policies that we have in place to contact you go ahead SL the microphone down here and then answer your question I a few years ago email me about a book and um and I called her and talk to her I talk about how she I want make comfortable how can I help them so I just wanted to um piece it's really good as a starting point to have that Wonder [Music] conversation and I had had one challenge in 19 years it was in 2012 and the parent came in and talked with me
030and um and we I gave him the form that's in our policy to fill out and the next and he wanted to pursue it to the next step so we have a school committee we went all the way to right before the superintendent if he had wanted to appeal it but um the group the committee from the school um decided to keep the book on as it was and the committee at the district level also decided to so he did not pursue it further but the work and um and as I say that's the one time in 19 years are there any well I was just going to say that um in addition to engaging with that parent I I've not had this experience as a librarian but um like I'm going to read that
031book and figure out whe like what we are dealing with perhaps it's a book I've already read so I can speak to it but but again we don't want on the shelves that should be on the shelves and um like that really is important and um that's just that's a piece of what I would do yeah tell me about your weeding for your removal process how do you determine um maybe sometimes there you come across a book and you're like whoa maybe you're not I don't know um tell me about your reading process and when you're can't keep all books you got to make room for new books you have in shelf space um more shelf stat than others um but tell me how your what is your decision process when you're removing a book
032um even you can talk about just in general because certainly there are titles on your shelves that have never been picked up um and that and then others that um would maybe cross the line for sexually explicit content so tell me how you determine those things either so I think that weeding is just as important as curating your catalog to curating your catalog as purchasing books we look at a variety of Statistics whether it's the condition of the book the age if it's um presenting any misinformation um if it's circulating if it's something we determine no longer fits our selection so there are so many things that we're looking at when we go through the leading process I frequently walk around the library and say oh that series isn't circulating anymore I either need to
033promote it or get rid of it and it it's a constant process that we're not looking at books specifically for seexual sexually explicit content when we're reading books because we're selecting books that don't have cont we are not specific we're [Music] not we would never choose to put a book in knowingly knowing that it has something so explicit that we would need to take it off the shelf we do make mistakes and so if we did make a mistake and we realize that we put a book on the Shelf that should not be on the Shelf we would use our reconsideration policy that begins with measuring it against our selection [Music] polic right draw so I received the list and was told that they needed to be off my shelves immedately that they would be
034collected immediately so I remove them from my sh put them in a did you look up on the Internet no I'm not aware of how to read books without cheing Library check them from library so you Che any of the books that on the list to say just so that we could come to some kind of common ground and say you know what they right better we should look at it I can only speak personally I um some of the books on that list um I I had read um some of the books on that list I can think of one book I don't want to get into specifics but there was a book on that list that I had read um because the student had recommended it and I and we determined it was
035a good fit for J Ashley um and the the other books I have been obviously not copies that were ours but I've been working to reading them the ones I had already read just to to try and be able to personally come to an understanding of whether or not they you know are a good fit or not for for for our library you know whether they're ones that I would Advocate comeing back or not I while while that you know the generation about this is is feels uncomfortable like the reality of see see that there are concerns about those books something I think I know I I would say we have taken serious sorry still um but I would say I had had a copy of one again not to wrote that book was donated
036by student who read it finished this I loved it had it and I looked through it and thought no this isn't this isn't for us you know I have it pass it on elsewhere um so yes I have used our policies with those list to determine that at least one of those [Music] was about earlier you take a look at those policies we put in front of you we do all have a detailed process on weing also know that we specifically in my library and for most of us the beginning of the year I inform parents that they do pleas inform me of anything you would not like your child to have access to we can make notes and children files for Destiny which is our library man software and I have done that and
037put notes in certain Files about any titles or authors or content that a parent did not want their child to access again this was not a formal complaint about any specific title but just you know list of certain authors or titles that they didn't want them to have their child to have access to not calling for removal but specifically for their child and that system has worked so far the parent has acknowledged that that is in fact working for their child and so we do have the ability to do that all parents were also given a tutorial or a video at the beginning of the year and Dr shet had talked about this and we had talked about it with an opin policy where they can receive an email every time their child checks out
038items from the school library to my knowledge there has been three parents in Rockingham County who have opted in thatst but that is also available so we wanted you to be aware of the transparency we do have with parents to make sure that we are making sure we are listening to parents and we want to honor their concerns for their [Music] children let's turn our attention to some of the proposed policies not that we have to carve up everything out of these policies and make our we can certainly start from stretch is there anything that you're wanting to see for sure that gets in these policies what what would you like us to make sure that we what would you hope that is in this policy we're looking at kind of two different policies right
039now one for um collection and one for challenges so keeping that in mind what are some things that you would want to see for sure um on either one um I'd like everybody to have a chance to speak to this one maybe and even if this is famous like casing here it could be anything from you know one of these policies I saw once a book challenge has gone to a committee and the decision is made and that that decision stands for all eternity or for stands for four years and then it could be reconsidered either to go back on the shelf or it could be reconsidered to be pulled off the shelf again some some of them have twoe policy some of them have four some of them just don't that's like an example
040of something maybe you've read that you were like like I don't like that or like please make sure that you know that we have something like this and then give you an example um you could take turns anybody share I have a question um in the interest of saving time in this process why um what would it be a good idea to to use our current policy as a starting point and then possibly pull in characteristics or things that we're seeing in the other policies to enhance our current policy rather than starting as you said from scratch seems like it would be a big time great question I think one of the um one of the policies that we like because it's slowly I think me she Sarah likes the Handover County policy um I
041like that policy for a lot of reasons um but there are parts of it that I don't like um there were parts of um another collection policy that I felt like was um almost too comprehensive there I think I mentioned in the last meeting there was one that talked about cataloging Li uh classro libraries and having to go through all of that and I I think um um that might be too far in One Direction that we want to go so is there anything um I'm not sure I I looked at your policies some they look like you all develop them together is that correct they're all written using the AL standard for selection policies okay because there's a lot of similarities here um but you know the one thing that it doesn't talk about
042is actuallyit content and that's kind of what we're looking at at removing anything that leads that definition so just anybody outside of this knowing that we're going to we're going to write a policy is there anything you want to make sure that we do have or that we do not of course we do have policies in front of us that were written uh largely by my understanding um the I'm sorry I forgotten your last name m uh I I believe he he took a he started the Turner asy went from scratch tailored towards Rockingham County students written by someone who attended Rockingham County schools and knows our area quite well is that the fair statement so yeah I feel like that should be our starting point if we want to add um sexually exp explicit
043parameters I feel like you all would be open to that but I think that's where our starting point needs to be I I appreciate that I I would say that I don't find the Handover policies in particular to be super far from from what you would find in L certainly they have the the special committee that deals with v sexual explicit um they've got a section that deals with that specifically that you would wouldn't find in ours but I think you'll find a lot of aspects of their particular the reconsideration policy to be quite [Music] similar mine's the same um I wrote it sorry for class but it follow is laa I do like the tears where it starts at the school level and then we can address it there either with the library with
044the principal have a meeting with the parent and then if go up to the next level where there be another committee at central office with key people and then go on I like the tears I think we've talked about that too we're fine with that because a lot of times we can avoid it house there were a coup policies that didn't have a tier that started at the school and I think that's really important um that that that the school yeah be be your first point of contact and that's why there are teers if that doesn't satisfy you know there are other teers but but I think it's healthy for that back and forth where to start there at the school the current school policy we have a place for Structural Materials and reconsidering those
045does have that tiered process and speaking with you know my colleagues we have said we are willing to just add the and Library materials into the existing policy that's in place for instructional materials to just add in suppl supplementary materials to include Library materials with that tiered policy already in place we are after first do you want to you have more question do have question I would just say because we're talking a lot about um I don't have huge complaints about these that that you all have in place I think where we can get to some common ground is if we understand where each of us is coming from um what I'm hearing is is that you all do a really good job of add addressing at your level to each individual par right this
046you're responsible for 600 and a couple students right and you do really well with communicating with those parents where we come from is that we're responsible for 11,000 so we're just we're looking at the same problem just from a different perspective think so I don't know we have huge problems with this it's just that we need to have a policy because we're specifically looking at sexual expensive content violence and drug use those are the things that we want in and I guess talking about that you definitely don't want in policy we talk about school board policy or that you definitely want in I mean are we even at the same table when we say we should not have this detailed explicit content that multiple um Studies have said this really bad in the developing brain
047like can we at least come to that part of the table and say maybe that Stu should be there because I I want to keep that in mind we're writing policy [Music] um I think that we have to be very careful in the words we use and choose um when we characterize things as pornography um that's a very inflammatory word and um [Music] sometimes materials in a library or even instructional materials which we have abided by the state law to be the parameters of that um may have those things in them and often times um I think Go Ask Alice was on the list that was in the classroom library that I walked into in 1984 it is a cautionary tale if you read the whole book and when you take things out of context
048and take them out of the representation of the characters you change the meaning of the work as a whole which we always consider and I'm not trying to slide by as my colleagues have said and these are my colleagues um I do not want us to have division wide policies that take away the value of relationships in Rockingham County Public Schools and also to diminish opportunities for very intelligent students who are able to have very mature conversations you back back to that to take away relationship go back to that and explain that because when we say as a supervis I've never had a supervisor in this division that if there was a concern that supervisor didn't say you need to talk to Miss Tate [Music] first and that is why I love this vision and
049the people I work with because that relationship since number one in Rockingham County that is what we are and when we make broad policies that diminish the relationship because we don't think of what the personal circumstance is or respect the relationship that the people within our schools have with their school communities this is very concerning to me it's heartbreaking because I think sometimes people try to make an issue of things that I feel are not really an issue and if it is a sincere issue then we want conversations that establish relationships with all of our stakeholders and I think it is misleading to say that that is not true um I think that if there are sexually explicit things in books that it depends on the audience and the circumstance with which in that which
050within which that is ADD address and I have taught thousands of students who have very very mature and intelligent conversations about that material um are there any before we wrap it up are there any Librarians in high school that would like to say anything else we have like about a minute um I haven't really prepared what I was going to say but um what concerns me with children and I've I've been in a high school for 27 years and I'm 49 years old so I've been a public educator a long time um I don't see students checking out books I just don't um I do see them on their cell phones all day every day and that is where my concern is um is that students are not checking out these books they're not reading
051these books and they're attached to their phones and they can see a lot of of stuff um on their phones and and that's that's where my concern is along those lines I'd like to concern that I have had more in the past two years than done about 18 19 years just under um I I mentioned some of my colleagues recently most requests for books I get are middle grade books are wh kids and I'm so glad that they safe Comfort greed and and I guess I need to add also I have so just personally I have a 19y old 17y old 14y old and a 10 10y old not good with numbers um and my 14-year-old her birthday is September 30th and she started high school at 13 for the first two months of high
052school she say young that could be in the state of Virginia be a freshman and scho and I always BN that in mind like I will have the baby and she is currently the baby of the high school I always want everything to be something I can have a conversation with her about everything that I've ever had my hands on inad high school ever has been a book that I have been comfortable with her looking at that's my basis but I welcome her to and I I I don't know how to do this other than anecdotal she has come to me three times this year with her phone concerned about something up her on social media she has never brought a book to me you know and been frighten of that because she knows she
053can close it and walk away and that is a safe place where she can learn how she where her morals bring her to and her like bring her to where she can line with um what's appropriate for her life what she feels is ethical and moral and in line with her church you know she's she's a strong young woman and I just I am loath to remove a safe place for students to learn how they're going to react because they are going to encounter these situations in fact I keep and I just talk way too much I'm gonna cut a minute but there's student at Broadway last week who came to me I worked intimately with the our food bank there um meeting some Racers um he had no razors he had no way to
054buy them had no money and we don't give our Racers you know we have them for our family nights when parents come once a month so I thought about it and I was like I'm not giving this in school um said if you can come back you know after school you were a trustworthy 18-year-old this is a senior and afterwards I you know I gave him a bag fully wrapped up take this home straight home you don't ride a bus you know I just even though they're safy raisers I am nervous about this um afterward let straight to my administrator said I just so you know I did this you know it made me nervous but I did it because I just felt this was the right thing for this student and they said I'm
055so glad you did that you know how Mom and Dad are in prison for making me lives with Grandma well Grandma went to prison last we for making me like our kids real life needs to be reflected in a way they can know they overcome like the drugs are not only in the books they they are in their hes and so that one in particular the drugs really make me nervous like I really want them to [Music] an Ellen Hopkins is a cautionary tale you know like to get out this is not romanticizing this is yeah this this is some kids real life in Broadway and I want them to see they can make it through in AIC they're such good kids and they deserve the best sorry I thank you L I want to
056thank you all for your time we run right up until 10:00 and I'd like to S over to element Li have but do feel free to outa we're going to take a 5 minute break and then transition do feel free to reach out email there's things you don't I give me what you [Music] got yes sry [Music] much I I got four right here yeah so she had be a l how bet you got [Music] these are [Music] r we never saw each other you [Music] issues M was slug like I couldn't bring stuff up again like it was last night was that just I had noticed but I actually haven't tested th tabs open and haven't shut down my computer in a while so maybe it's just me crushing system maybe I'll I can
057I can check out for ducks I'll take a look was it boards last night oh yeah it wasn't the no board dos was down so it could be boards again it could be how about you on the back end of board dos everything's looking okay I know it can hear us it's okay hey Jackie board dog looks okay TR old reboot [Music] Sarah do you want me toate mine I'm loud so I to talk I can get a whole play K attention microp here we go okay um why don't you go around and introduce yourselves tell us what library you are representing here today I can start so my name is Stephanie May and I am atle even Elementary School this is my 19th year in education I taught fourth in first grade and then
058I'm and this is my year hi my name is ly moer and I am atary school this is my eth year as a librarian and I've been working for the county since 2010 hi my name is car Lance and I'm a library at Lacy Spring Elementary I've pretty much done my whole career there 24 years first grade second grade teacher at libran for the last 15 years and I feel like I really know my community I see the B is when I drive by their houses to school when I ride up I see them in the motel rooms when I go by around 11 so I know where my community lives and the backgrounds they have I'm desire breaker I 13 years now teaching I've been a classroom teacher prea kindergarten second fifth this is
059my sixth year in the library and I live two minutes from school so I really my community and on my kids which my [Music] name I'm the libran at johnon Myers in I've been the libran there for eight years uh they have taught Mar and Johnny for 20 years um I live the Broadway two minutes away away both my daughters graduated from [Music] broaders hi I'm night and I'm the librarian at Fon I've been there for this is my 22nd year at Fon and I absolutely love it I've been in the library for I think this is my nth year I taught prek second and fourth before that but um just love my little school community and blessed to be in the library my name is Dana rodri I'm the librarian at K Elementary School
060this is my 24th year teaching I've taught in the classroom in first grade and third grade I was a reading specialist for eight years um and I've spent the last 5 years in the library in the largest school in the largest Elementary School in the county um not only am I teacher in the count I am also a parent I have two spots of high school students um I have a junior who is striving English um reading lots of great books I also am mom to a freshman's son who spends more time reading scripts than novels um he broughts on the stage so I'm involved with theater boosters to at spons high school and hi Courtney I've been liing at elementary I've been library [Music] for 14 years pretty much since I started teaching um
061this is my first year in Rockingham County I'm very excited to be here um I heard so many amazing things and I've been experiencing so many amazing things since I've been good morning my name is lii joh element un most people here I not native Virginia this is my second Virginia I've been teaching for 28 years this is my first year [Music] hi my name is Margot jansy and I remember back when I was a newly we Larry Huffman hired me to be a third grade teacher at clim supplementary when it was still an open classroom and I this week have celebrated 61 years of life and I have a deep sense of gratitude that I have dedicated my life to Bingham County schools and the students in the families through teach teaching in the
062classroom being a reading specialist gifted education and now a librarian at Pleasant Valley and I just want to say every morning as I drive to Pleasant Valley I have this sense of purpose and meaning and I wanted just say thank you for the opportunity so I am the old librarian I've been doing it for over 20 years um I actually was born in crosses and that's where I live now so I've raised my children I've been in right hand high schools for many many years I've worked with some of these people with some of our um kiddos um I love library and it's not just about the books I know that's the conversation we're having today and I appreciate that conversation but the library is so much sh if you ever want to come visit
063just come to River elementy it's kind of the O in way I welcome you my name is Lisa shius and I have one daughter who's not quite in school yet although we're just to three residence she'll probably be a night because it's my seventh year at Mountain View in the library hi I'm Mar harer I've been a library for 19 years I think this year teaching in the county since 1992 uh I've taught fourth grade second grade one of my three jobs at JMU was to work preschool and I have four grandchildren that went through the County Schools I met South River for my 32nd year because I wanted to go back to a small school I started at the gville and I wondered what it would be like to be a library for less
064than 500 kids um and I have a really sof spot for the kids who need lots of [Music] love hi I'm Sergeant this is my six year at PLS Elementary School my third year as the librarian there I've got about 15 years experience in different settings in education including special education and kindergarten assistant um and I absolutely love being there my is a claim she loves being love library teacher so it's been a pleasure um I think when we're talking about elementary versus secondary there are some major differences um tell me a little bit that you're serving a wide range of students and that is to challenge right so high school Ser serving a broad range Middle School serves a broad range but you all are serving you know pretty K through you're you're serving
065itty Bitties who have parents reading these books to them hopefully um all the way up until we have 10 you know 10 and 11 year olds as they approach Middle School um you all are also trying to collect just like other Librarians um in the Middle School right you have like a wide range of um you've got kids who can who are 10 and 11 years old but they are reading on a first grade level and they want to look like they're carrying big chapter books around um but they can't read them and so you all have some um unique challenges um in meeting the needs of like a very broad range you've got you know n nine year-olds that can read on a high school level for sure but that doesn't mean we're putting
066High School level material in our libraries um so can you share um some of how you devel that collection um at the elementary level I don't know that there's any that we're aware of any sexually explicit content anything that would fall into that category at the elementary level and there's a reason for that right so um if you could share just a little bit about how you're developing could be anything broad something you want us to know like hey we've got to find a lot of uh High interest low vocab kind of books of what that mean um you could share picturs anybody that wants to on those topics all before we answer questions weed a just to give you a window of what our our day looks like as library and just transparency our
067sure I think that's great I also like you someone mentioned U theer maybe you all do a whole lot more than just have libraries these are you know you're teaching classes you're bringing in St you're doing a whole lot of other things Elementary level so short go thank you um today I'd like to speak on the aspect of transparency and parent inclusion um and I would like to start with a quote from a book that I know you all know well it was recently removed from our shelves and it's The Invisible Boy by try lck and it the author describes the main character vley he sits there wondering what is worse being laughed at or being invisible throughout this process our profession has been both left at through the cultur rewards common use of course
068derogatory terms unfitting for anyone in this room and made to feel invisible through the lack of inclusion within the conversation to the latter part I thank you for today including us in these important very important conversations now as it translates or relates to transparency and parent involvement it has always been deemed critical that our policies for book curation be open and understood by the community Librarians want books to be for their patrons and these curations are not a reflection of their own values perspectives culture religion ethnicity or personal identity we are not fulfilling our jobs if the books only reflect our own lens we provide for all while it has been stated repeatedly that there is no existing policy for library book selection it has largely been overlooked that each rcps Librarian Is resp responsible
069for developing a specific book selection policy that is then posted on their school's individual website each librarian's catalog of books available to students is also made available via their school's website this allows parents to have an opportunity to review and express any concerns that they may have at any given time division wide Librarians created videos explaining how students can place particular books on hold some Librarians went as far as to teach parents how to create 2B red lists with their students so they knew what they were coming to check out when they visit the library parents have the ability to request permission for their child to read or not read certain books or certain book topics we have a flagging function in our circulation system to help with this while there's not a formal request
070form available at this point we are open to and we welcome this type of documentation parents even have the ability and I think Miss K spoke on this earlier um to receive emails notifying them of every book their child has checked out note that presently there are only three parents within the county that have made the specific request the board has maintained a pledge to be the transparent board one that notifies their constituents and presumably staff members of topics and considerations before actions are made as it relates to library cataloges we request that your transparently transparency excuse me includes open dialogue with your professional staff full disclosure of any book challenge received from the community and adherence to proper book reconsideration protocol prior to a blanket removal from our shelves without we risk the lessons
071from books such as The Invisible Boy remain invisible to us all thank you [Music] is that your question we have answer it um can you share how thank you um can you share how you curate your libraries very interest some schools are very different than others um as far as what you know Community we're talking Community Schools right so elementary schools I feel like can have a lot of differences where when she gets mid High School start meshing all of those groups of kids together becomes more broad but that's why I like Elementary so I I was I because I've been a libr for a long time I walked into Lindo Edom to an older collection had to do a lot of reading things were just outdated and then I got to start River B
072collection from scratch and that was amazing um when it comes to what I select I really just look for what is going to grab a kid's attention what series are they reading what is it that they're interested in like dinosaurs and um the girls love the Middle School drama types of graphic novels and that sort of thing so you know it's just what are they going to read and we talked about reading earlier I read like crazy because if it's a book that hasn't been checked out I need spage for the stuff that's going to be checked out and if it's a book that just isn't for the same age which I found more in my older collection know there's the ones you just get rid of and you know I we all the time
073and sometimes there's a little bit of guilt there because you're getting rid of a lot of books that cost a lot of money and we have a limited budget but I really just look for what our kids want to read and then we look at um reviews and so those are my main focuses for collection [Music] development if we also excuse me right now have a suggestion box that our kids can actually literally great down titles or suggestions um because I branding Library there you know not at the job but that particular location I don't know them very well yet I've been spending the first semester really getting to know that having conversations really paying attention to what like I can go through the catalog through our fallet and actually like run statistics but having
074that conversation with the students is so much more important to get more information from them um building those relationship ship with them really helps you know what are they interested in my last school they love hunting books well I don't have any here and some the kids don't like hunting but they're not interest reading about it here so that's you know the kind of things those conversations are what we all have all the time with our students to see what we need to see [Music] Sunday and there are schools that are like that your collection policy like or not Poli but just what your students the things that students are interested in how a are very different than what might be at or I just want to add to that by knowing my community um
075how I pick books um one thing we become passionate about is um school garden and so I started out my involvement is putting more books in the library about gardening picture books books non-fiction books that kids could check them out because they were excited and that's led to me taking over the school garden and helping to develop that and teaching lessons in the library we're making pizza in the library and things like that so my collection reflects what we're interested in it also reflects what students are interested in I had the first um in a series about a girl in ancient China or in Egypt and I had a new reader who was outed about AG egpt they were learning about in third grade in the classroom and she's like do you have more and
076this is right before Christmas break and I said I don't and if I go through the process of having to put a purchase order and buy it it's going to be a month down the line so I bought it myself looking at it find appropriate and bought the rest of the series and sent them home through it over Christmas and she read the entire series I think in elementary especially we make choices like that all the time because we want to put books in the kids hands that are interested that are appropriate and that we know are going to um encourage their reading I think all of us every year I spend probably $1,000 of my own money because I don't have enough Rock money I had years where I've spent $6,000 $2,000 has been
077rocking County money I fundraised the rest of it whether it's through record grants donor choose um Book Fairs just to get the books that we need I have $2,000 worth of books that were damaged from Mostly water and book bags or have been lost that's on way W list to be purchased to add it back to my library titles that have been in before I have over $1,000 of books I would like to add um that are excellent books but I don't have the money to do that when I started in 2008 my budget at La ring for about 350 kids was $55,000 the recession hit and they dropped to $2,000 we had 230 next year we're going back up to over 300 students and I still have the fun RS and find ways to
078provide the books for the kids to find them um I have books we are not a very diverse School we're going to get more diverse but whenever somebody moves in from a different culture I find a book about that culture not necessarily because they need to know they came from it but because the rest of the population needs to know about that culture so that's how I Cate that it's not going to look the same for East Ro or folks run that's why we can't have the same exact books in every library but it needs my popul sorry I'm getting over pink which caus to sore throat that kindergarten Shar with me some my voice is the best so that brings me to a question is the funding the same for elementary is it in
079the state is the funding for elementary the same as for my school based on population so it's all based on population so we spend what was it $7 exactly between s s BS 7 to8 is$ to8 per f b per year whether they're an elementary school student or a high school student okay thank you for that I follow oh I'm sorry go ahead one thing to go off with think about half of my County this year adding more books into library in different languages so kids can take those home and read those with their family so even if they're learning English parents don't always so I've had a couple kids were excited to read they like that's what my mom reads and so they me home and they can share but another followup question how
080much does an elementary average Elementary book cost because I mean they are not the $5 Amazon book right so it depends on if you're shopping locally a lot of us um fill our libraries with books from the green belly book fair which could range from a dollar to $5 um but then you're also you need to take in consideration the processing materials you need to cover those books with to make them um withhold the amount of reads that they'll they'll gain um I was going to speak off just briefly with carlen um my bookkeeper when I first St budget and at cover we have about $5,000 um she CAU me to set aside about $500 of my budget for um loss and damaged books because of the population of students we serve I do not
081charge over de funds I do not charge for Replacements I do not charge for damage books I beat that and so again I have that $500 buffer but what I've found is it's not enough um and I forgot I was going to say someone else Speak oh sorry yes $25 is your average Library round book and that is found in such a way that it allows multiple reads compared to a book you might buy from read another book fair or off aart they're not made for multiple reads so your average B cost is basically the budget students and you asked earlier of what what collection um affords our students at C we have almost 800 students and so when running the report after that an average of 23 books per student in our school on
082the shows this is a great conversation to have we appreciate these [Music] questions [Music] yeah we would have to go into Destiny report that's not something we about today we let you know if you need just curious a b difference secondes element I'm wondering if the secondary might put more of their budget into online sources cuz I don't when I used to teach Middle School CU I did n years in the Middle School a lot of um we have a lot of online she saying no okay so maybe just their books are more expensive a middle school teacher you have to keep in mind they're reading longer books it takes them longer to read them in elementary school they can sit down and read a picture book in 10 minutes so need a much bigger
083volume of books in order to keep books but we have a lot of like paperbacks that aren't really cheap so I mean we we could easily have 30 to 30 books per student in I wouldn't know right now because we have a ton of really cheap paperbacks from green book that are going to be I know I'm torn going to get thrown away and replaced in the next couple years add to this conversation inant Valley we have about 21 books per student and we have a highly diverse population and when the immigrants are coming I run to find more Ukrainian books green B book fa has helped me bar no help me find those books but it's been a difficult Journey to Find what we need for our newcomers and to add on to that
084there was one policy I think May was sheno County that only afforded their Librarians to shop twice a year and so as Elementary Librarians who are catering to our students who are coming in coming out or their interests are changing from first grade to second to third we're shopping constantly so to look at narrowing our our buying powers to two times a year will be a disservice to our students well the kids get just as excited like I know that we get right at 2,000 at aoma um and the kids get just as excited when they see that fallet fox arve like it is a fight to be like let me get them in the computer first you know and there are some books when we're picking books for kids like I will literally put
085it in the computer and take it to the class and be like it just got here do you want this to be the first check out and you think it's the greatest thing like and it just makes our little teacher heart that's what we have drop like whenever we get new books like the new amul it just like we have to have a drawing to see it will be the first person to check it out because otherwise they would go to that first class that came and then nobody see it they do like I agree like buying books place here would be a huge disservice question sorry string it was that was a quick question that I had didn't really mdle school so you guys do buy multiple times a year is that the midle
086school [Music] as and just to address what she brought on amulet which we've been waiting for how many six years for this author to write to last in the series I sent out email it really does exist to the other Librarians I took it home to read before I put it in and I got an email Friday from Dr all of saying no more books added to the library so it's stting I told the kids it was coming I cannot put it out my kids have been reading my your school Series in their classroom we did a book club with reading teachers I ordered books they just came in on Friday I cannot put those out for them um I had a girl asked for the first in the series that got lost I cannot
087put that out give it to her because we've had this whole put on these books that's how much I have about 40 more books coming that I've ordered that this week they cannot I cannot put them out make them accessible so it really hampers us when we're put given limits like that we've already made the decision that they're appropriate um but why do we have to wait so long speaking on that as well um we all fundraised or most of us have believe fundraised through Scholastic Book Fairs and so that money is handled a little bit differently through our book keep and I don't know I don't see for all but at our school it's much easier to spend quickly so we can put in an Amazon wish list the bookkeeper has those books just
088by the of the week on the same line those Scholastic dollars that you earn to or earn from your sales and profits um we're able just to order through Scholastic website we've an upcoming book fa in in 3 weeks my demographic of students they all can't shop and so we always find a way that every student gets something usually it's through a book fairy coupon and I I give teachers three coupons a class and say please watch who shop those who haven't passed us out then they have $10 can shop this go around I spent I think $500 of my um Scholastic profit to give away books at the start of the book fair so again every student has a book from the book fair those books are out this week we and my concern
089is because they arrived at the same time that the hold was Place am I allowed to pass these books out or not they've not been through a Review Committee but if not then a large percent of my population will not have a can you um share about how you determine what's appropriate for I have to say I don't have as much difficulties as in middle school and high school but I did have something threee girls who said Mrs huder where's the romance section I said we do not have one at elementary school so you do have to make those decisions uh we do have our vendors have excellent Resources with the um reviews of different books so if it's a new book to us we will read the reviews and then judge based on that
090and they also give us some parameters probably the hardest ones are the ones say grade five and of and I occasionally I have up here and people'll say hey I don't like for my child to check out books um magic and Wizardry was one of them so we just put a note on their account you know please do not let them but then we also it's ask the par to have a conversation with your student you know these are our PRS as a family we would like for you to respect that and it has worked really well but yeah choosing for a fifth grader is difficult [Music] sometimes backing on what the upper Gres had said like you know we use what the um Professional Resources the reviews that said um personally I tend to
091if it says grade four through eight I really tend to consider it is it as something we already have in the library the series is already there um is it something that we really need to have like is it topic we don't already have you know because fifth grade is such a a different different age group um and you know is it a topic that we also have like a section in our library that you know we put on in grades four and five only um and we we have a lot of students in the catalog that it'll say according to parent they can check out whatever they want other people will say not allowed to get you know certain things um a lot of was we had these discussions that you know absolutely happy
092to put in a note that says students cannot check out certain things um but we we do actually read the professional journals and the professional reviews on fallet and hornbook and the um Library journals and absolutely take all that into account if there's an excerpt from the book on wherever we're looking at I totally read that especially when it says four up or grade grades four up or grades five up if it say gr enough tend to not unless it's something we already have in the library and I will look at it a little harder um but because I have taught my in the middle school before so I know that and I've dealt with book's being questioned when I was in the middle school so I know and getting to know your demographic more
093like do these kids really you know is this a group of students or families that may have objections to that or is this a group of families in this school who would be open to that because I've also taught in schools that were very and I'm very open to different topics so like when I T this private school we had you know they actually were asking for things for their fifth graders that I was like oh well for a middle school book but do you want it sure we'll put it in our library so it's you really do have to get to know your demographic and that is something you know that we all spend a lot of time doing but we also spend a lot of time reading [Music] reviews once we know our
094community we have certain parents that we'll go to and ask to B for for us to get their input as well I know my library assistant she reads all the time um there was a book that I purchased I had not read it she did it and brought caution to me at that point I passed the book up to the middle school you know so we do have checks and balances in those [Music] regards um I was I know that somebody mentioned it in the Middle School conversation that these books and these kids are not in a vacuum they on the library like I almost have the problem of our fifth graders especially this part of the year and I know we all do where they'll say where are your stary books and I'll say
095well these are the Elementary School St books and they're like no no no no no and they the things that they are watching are much scarier than anything that any of us would have in our libraries and so I would say if anything we are way more cautious than not all of them but a lot of them are exposed to so many things when they are not reading a book about it um so it does get hard to find that balance of what would be interesting to them but yet with still elementary school approprate because their threshold is so much higher than what I wanted to be the scary books are probably of what I get most feedback from parents and grandparents um about what they want know I have some blocks on some I
096had a grandparent in on our book club the other night and was talking about this and I said oh remember you talked to me last year about your kids are afraid to go upstairs when they see something scary they don't want to sleep in the B I said I pulled her over the computer like this is where I put the Block in for your kids um not to check out those books I try to be sensitive um under third grade I try to really be sensitive and I say you know you're glad you're welcome to have this I don't you ask Mom or Dad if they'd like this time i' be glad to give a few dat and look it up with my school library catalog so I always I want to say no because
097I had as a first second grade teacher I've had those kids who read at sixth and seventh grade level I've had those kids whose parents have been reading gooseb since kindergarten um who come in and talk about Chucky movies giving me Thrills and I don't like those fooks myself that much so I have that um what do call kind of well a filter kind of on it so I try to make things available to everybody but I want to try to find a way to accommodate everybody without cycling their choice [Music] so um I my I think it was my second year as I did have a book that was challenged and we went through the process with that um and anyway it was one of the books that was on the list that um
098were pulled and so as I was thinking about that book I was just like I knew I had read it at the time that it was challenged just to you know I need to so I did and um as part of the challenge process I wasn't on the committee but I did have to write a a response I guess about it and so I looked that up the other day and came across it and I feel like it's something that I would like you all to hear um about looking at a book um in the whole context of the book and not just kind of a little piece so if I could share that with you all um that was part of it um so book was drama that the complaint was for and I
099had written um while I didn't purchase this particular book for the library given what I have seen on Perm a company that I order from often I would have ordered the book it's by an author that the kids absolutely love all of her books are hits with the kids and I and I would have expected this one to be as well per suggests the book for GR or and I and it has good reviews with those things in mind I probably would have selected it for our library Too part of the library's goal is to service all students with a population of prek through fifth grade students it needs to have books that appeal to all students reading taste and keeps all students engaged in Reading parents should be reviewing what their children are reading
100to make sure it aligns with what they deem appropriate for their child students are always told that if they have chosen a book that either makes them uncomfortable and or they do not think their parents would approve of then to please return it while this book does portray characters who say they are gay and or are realizing they may be gay it is not the main plot of the story nor does any explicit sexual behavior take place the characters in the book are experiencing puppy love crushes while some parents and students may feel uncomfortable with the topic of homosexuality being brought up in the the book other parents and students may find it a mirror of their life and the world that is going on around them and be thankful to see characters in a
101book going through some of the things that they are going through and or people they know have gone through everyone needs to be able to find books they can see themselves or the people in the world depicted in it is not the library's place to shut off one group of people because another group of people does not like or agree with it this book creates a springboard for conversations about a topic that may be going on in a family and or the world around them this book shows that even though someone may be different everyone can still be friends and not dwell on our differences the author has portrayed that there is more to these characters lives than being gay just as there is more to Callie's life that was another character in the book
102um just as there is more to Callie's life than just being straight if a book behooves a child to have a conversation with their parent and ask questions then the book is doing exactly what it was meant to do in the media complaint the parents felt that the author was trying to sneak the content into the book rather I believe she was trying to make the issue not seem like a big deal and just part of normal life when the character said he was gay and the other one was talking about whether he was or not there was not a big show about it it was said and then the characters went one about their lives had the author put a warning on the back of the book that would go against the point and
103make it seem like being gay is a part of someone like being gay is a part of someone's life that people should be warned about I would say this is exactly what she is trying to refrain kids from feeling about themselves and or their family members this book is loved by a lot of students it does not stay on the shelf and it has kids engaging in authentic reading in my opinion that is the reason enough to keep it on the shelf for those who choose to read it so that was just for that I think that was a great respon on record thank you for sharing that your response there and what you said I want to go on record too because many of you know that I am a pastor and I do
104follow Christian judeo values and it's been said that I don't want any type of books in our schools that have sexuality in it that's false that well you your response there right on now we we have we have plethora of students within our public schools that are dealing with all kinds of different issues and different backgrounds and all kinds of things right I think what we're looking at as a board is when it's sexually explicit when it comes to and I didn't hear you say I this book is what you said that there is no sexual content within the book you're just talking about kids that are are either dealing with homosexuality or are homosexuals and that was cont in the book we're looking at actually sexual explicit material in BS not that we out
105and this is the live that so many people not people this is a live that I think or or one of the narratives saying that we don't want any homosexual or lgbtq books at all the problem is is that the authors whether you're heterosexual or you're lgbtq you still have to have a community standard and I've heard that come up here earlier or was appropriate I think was came up earlier so appropriateness within the books in our community standard is what we're looking for so that I just wanted to go that was a great response back to that parent thank you for saying that and I just want to go record that I agree that is and I think that's a good point and so that brings to me why did you pull some books
106before you realized this why were the misal kid and all these before they were fully vetted and you found out that there was no sexual explicity in it so why did we do that ahead of time I saw someone say something about these folks could possibly be off the shelves for year and I think that's crazy and I advocated from the very beginning for this to be a quick process although we were told that it didn't have process know can our time so we had 57 books to look at why did you pull them off before you looked at them though right so there's a lot there so why I want to answer that were you talking about the [Music] drama um let's say there are two books on this list maybe drama maybe The
107Invisible Boy right where we got parent complaints okay so is it the school board's job if we were just BN by our regular policy that was already established is it a school board's job to say well before I consider your complaint I'm going have to it myself to see if it's worthy of you being able to actually file the complaint so if there's two on this list of 57 I'll grant you that there's two that we might put back on the shelves there maybe more but does it take away from the other 55 does that invalidate because and I really really to do this because elementary school but this is what looking at didn't question asking and they didn't but when we look at books that are saying stuff like I'm going to take your
108pants off now he moves his lips down Henry's chest he kills under his mouth to beat Henry's heart SKS at the realization of what hends he kisses Henry Henry's solar plexus his stomach the stretch of skin before his wasting him I've never done this before I just need you to tell me if I'm awful Alex rolls his eyes and says for sake man you just have my dick in your mouth you at least me night so the answer is we didn't get a chance to personally read 57 parent complaints but because we saw in bulk we thought we better deal with this so we're not going to invalidate 55 other books that has this kind of content in them because it's dangerous to the minds of children and I'll Never back down from that so
109that's why when we have an active shooter situation in the school what law enforcement does as a first they neutralize the threat that's they don't go in and negotiate with it right they neutralize the threat possible I believe this is a threat to developing Minds so we neutralize threat that's why we didn't spend a year reading all of these books first of all did you read the entire [Music] book we're not going to get we're not going to get back and for I think it's important talking about this whole discussion I'll say this have you read the book in your library you I have not but I'm open okay but the answer is enough and so but you're you're you're expecting a different expectation on us that we should read all these books that are
110on here before we and so my thing is have you read the book that comes in your library no you read you go you find out what's some of these websites or what say earlier that we used the count uses TI way so you go and look at that same thing we did when we went and we looked at some of the content in this book we said yeah that that deserves be as she as m c was saying complaints came in and that's why I did it and you know you have 24 Librarians that can help you with this who have read a lot of these books and can help you evaluate you have I don't know how many English teachers that can help you with this that have dealt with this it's not
111all on you you've got a lot of help here and like I think many have said there's some that they were P I found the outsiders on my shelf after when I was doing a meeting that was inappropriate for elementary put there by the previous librarian I pulled that so you have help it's not for you to read all those books but before you do it you make lists that go out into public where other people may have pick up these lists and start Banning the books just because Rockingham County said we think there's something wrong with these books you're damaging those authors reputations in those books and Miss Kate you um in the Daily News Record on the we're not going into this we've got questions that we asking this is not a investigation
112you're not an investigator of come up here today and to investigate the board the board has come here today asking specific questions to our Li I'm just referring to a comment she made we're not going there why not you can do that that individually that's more professional her as individual after the meeting and ask question okay well we are in public meeting today today to libr that ask specific questions we're to stay on I am will to and I thank you for today I think for the most part it's I appreciate that I think she was trying to say I don't want to speak for for car it's just transparency we want to be transparent we want to have these conversations we just want to [Music] involved thank you for that U board members are
113there any other follow questions that she have her were push now questions that board members have at this time um librarian anything else that you all um want to share about your collection development or anything that you have seen if you've reviewed some of the policies um that we're looking at parts and pieces like I said I posed this question to M hi and I asked you know once once a book has gone through a review process it's gone forever more or do we push do we look at something or do we just not even address that just kind of leave you know leave like space there things like that you don't have to speak to that particular area but is there something like that that you saw that you either felt was like yeah
114that's really good or that's a just please don't do that to us I I I appreciate yall ask that question and this conversation has been amazing I felt like we really were listen to and that we really wanted to have this conversation and that we're here to help so um I think they were talking you were talking about a specific policy that you liked and we talked about the tears and I would reiterate that the tears seem to be a really important part of the process but n one I just want to say thanks for this conversation you can tell it's it's difficult for us as professionals and we appreciate that you guys we see where you're coming from and we appreciate that you see where we're coming from as well [Music] also right now
115I never had a vote formally challenged but right now we do it at the school level and then it goes to the county level if the parent isn't happy with the school's decision and even if a book is deemed to be taken out at the one school it doesn't mean that it's taken out at every single school and I think that's important um I've taught at mville and pl and and now South River and they're very very different um a little girl by one year at PLS which I fell in love with but God needed me to be back my own children so very next year I was back at P um a little girl thought that Best Christmas Pageant Ever Was a bad book and I thought oh my gosh what could she and
116I reget it um because I used to read that out all to my fourth graders and I realized there was one cuss word that always said oh my gosh darn um and it wasn't darn it was the on that's a little bit worse than that but in her family that was a PW and I said oh honey let's get you a different look but different populations different communities are very different and I I really think uh we need to be cautionary about just pulling out from everybody or every level um at the same time Amy Ry can tell you she and I there's been times when I've had a fifth grader that really really really wants me middle school and I had conversations with the parents and I verify with parents your child keeps asking
117for this book may I ask this R key to borrow it for your child from onav video and the hilarious thing is I think it happened three times in 17 years and every single time within two weeks the kid brought it back and said oh this book wasn't for me um but I wanted to give them that autonomy and they were really excited about a book that they'd seen in the movie um so we wanted give that to our kids we don't want to make them feel like they don't have a choice I want to thank you too for this opportunity and I'm sorry if I didn't go B I didn't realize the parameter some of these things were set at so feel very passionate I'm sorry if that took over for this feeling but
118I do welcome those conversations um about how we process this and our next steps [Music] forward um one policy I know I personally want to see it is for the committee to say well you can only purchase these books for your library because we' said before like lucky loot books are flying off my shelf which is a series of books about a little boy who goes hunting with his Dad and Grandad and I'm sure at craun those would not be checked down so just that is one part of a policy that I would I would be devastated if it was like well you can only pick from these hundred new books and that' be it like that would be devastating I think to many of us as [Music] mes like purchas once or twice a
119year that would be very difficult for all of us my bookkeeper made me have to buy everything by end of December and that was already horrible and I'm like what am I supposed to do in the spring oh good I got Scholastic money to spend um but accounting already G so that a struggle I just had one question I know that you guys are prepping and preparing for the Review Committee reconsideration or to look at the books at hand do we know what that process will look like in selection of committee [Music] members I think andard MERS speak up to this I think from here this is a great question GL you ask what looks like moving forward um I think what we're going to look at is putting together a policy there likely be
120um sessions with our lawyers that we'll we'll be looking at and making edits and then like I said for for me I think what I'd like to see is two policies one for Acquisitions one for challenges you and the acquisition policy might have things about leing and how we go about um adding removing things in there just more just a little bit more of a comprehensive policy on Library materials but then we need something for our um for f challenges and um so what I'm envisioning is that we're going to meet with lawyers probably pretty soon um and get together a draft we'll probably review a draft at some point I think we're going to be talking about having just a session for like just a we talked about a session or just taing it
121on to the end of a meeting um for public comment just strictly for that process um one thing I'm sitting here thinking you might want to consider is public comments to go really long um and it might be once we once we get a working draft to draft that we think we're we like that we move forward on it might be good to provide another session or time where Librarians can give us some feedback um specifically just for you all because um you're the ones that have to enactive we going to be working with that policy and I don't want you to have to fight for public comments time um you know to wait like 3 hours for your chance to provide some feed feedback because I I don't know whether public comments would take
122an hour or if they would take two hours um so that is something I think we'll look at I don't know if it'll be a form we send out and ask you to just like provide some feedback or send us an email or something but we do I do want to get it draft to you all look at um and provide you all opportunities I don't know if it'll look like public comment depend it's part of schedules um to have all these public feedback sessions um but we know it'll be an we hope hope it'll be an information item in our next our next official meeting which is february6 month we're hoping it'll be an information that doesn't mean um I don't that that means like if we don't get a chance to schedule with
123you or send out a Google form that you should feel you can certainly come and speak at the public comment sections when that is an informational item but I do want to make sure that you know like we're we're listening and that we will like somehow try to collect some feedback from our Librarians um so if we don't get that scheduled like what I'm saying is if we don't say hey on the 22nd we're going to meet and you guys going to feedback or here's a form and that public comment we have our public meeting on the 26th and we have public com you know people are going to come and speak to the policy or the information item and that's fine um please don't think that like we are not planning to we'll try
124to do better and like sharing a little bit further ahead I think I'd like to col like feedback just to say here's what we're thinking um if you're going to be devastated by this here's your chance to provide some feedback um I'd also like to point out that Virginia Cod does allow us to invite whomever we would like to close session and um it might the who us to invite our supervisor state so that that might help to answer questions and she can I believe in the state you are familiar with most of these po most of the local or School wide policies so you can speak to those and help guys through that as well so that might be helpful um I also want to share that I did invite um and they weren't
125able to be here which is why we were able to kind of run over but I did invite three different people um experts in the field to kind of speak to and provide some guidance and it didn't suit for the three of them so I'm hoping we can Circle back around to them one is um Jenny Martin one is Sandra Parks we wanted to meet with her and speak with her and those are the three people that we invited some are traveling some are at comms able to be here today um but I did reach out to hopefully get some sometimes when you're not in the classroom anymore it's a lot easier to be a lot more vocal about what it is that you feel like you can't say when you're employe and that was
126part of my reason for wanting to um to invite some of those experts um so we'll reach back out and see if we can't get connected with them as well if it so any final comments from the board members yeah I have one comment I this is I mean our my concern with Elementary was not sex okay so we I think we got we were heading in the right direction earlier of where is the line but that we didn't like get there where is the line when it comes to sexual dis in our liaries and we can't have one comment today that we have to take the whole book into content especially when you read passages that Miss cave said today that a lot of these books that are on that on that list7 are
127in there and so we didn't we didn't get to that point where's the line I I've heard a lot of us about the six or seven that was on there that's wasn't even in our but you have to remember that we were looking at both library and classroom Library material so knowing that classroom Library material doesn't we don't have any type of record of what's in the classrooms as well so we wanted to make sure those books were not wasn't in classrooms so so there is so there is a line somewhere because those six or seven that that are very extreme sexual in there they're not in our libraries at this time so where where is that line the line is somewhere but we didn't get that we I didn't hear an answer of that
128today only thing I got was that I can remember was we got to read all the content so I'm asking more of the middle and high go elementary believe their sexual Contin libraries so want to ask one more time you can elaborate on this but I I just kind of want to know where do you think the line should [Music] be anyone there's one hand in the back right here teacher I'm here was invited to come that was exactly my know there was a lot of use of the phrase sexually explicit and no one asked what the definition of that was the reality is that we don't agree and we never will my question is another thing that wasn't pointed out was whether or how the existing policies that empower the parents to parent their
129kids and create why are they not sufficient why is that not the first place every parent is pointed to it seems like that should be addressed before we even here so I there answers your question that's the question and I just want to recognize all the lians here who have dedicated their entire career to children like mine and I have one to a middle school and go high school so you are value no matter how this whole but that's the question you on the head happy to talk to you have response no this is for the Librarians I'm sorry you're welcome the question was for our Librarians that are here so where is that [Music] l [Music] that's an excellent question and thank you for giving us the chance to respond to that I know
130you've cited many times what the definition by the state of Virginia is and that is specifically in reference to instructional materials and I know we've made the point numerous times that we are not considering library books instructional materials because if that was in fact the case we would have been using the policy we already have in place or instructional materials so I think that that's one thing we will separate when we look at that because as you clearly stated we are not considering library books instructional materials meaning they wouldn't fall subject to that same definition which explicitly talks about instructional materials I think it's a difficult question to ask Where's the Line because again as we've seen you have so many different communities here so where's the line for you is obviously very different where's
131the line for me versus Where's the Line in Broadway or Where's the Line in Turner hasby so when we start to say this is the line we run ourselves into a potentially scary situation moving forward as new books come out and new materials get introduced to weigh them against a hard line with no consideration for community's parents as they've spoken because what might be the line for your child may be different than what I think the line for my child is based on the types of conversations we're willing to have but I do think clear to say that when looking at library books which has clearly been stated do not fall under instructional materials or else we already have a policy in place for those using the definition for sexually explicit as they relate to
132instruction materials is not the line we should be looking at I can't give you a hard fast answer because it's a m that's a matter of personal values so you're saying the Gen code is not the line that we should have for our libraries it specifically relates to instruction materials and I'm saying that you have been very clear that library books are not considered instruction materials so I'm saying that that definition does not apply to I'm saying that definition does not WR now apply to library books that are not used in completion of a class assignment so not saying can't look at that and saying that right now it specifically does not address library books however if we are considering library books instruction materials then we do have a reconsideration policy already in place that
133has been used and has [Music] worked so yeah the excerpt that you've read um I've read that book U that was the one I referenced earlier that I read that book and said I a student had recommended it to me I I read it student came in and said the best book they've ever read blah blah blah blah blah looked it up a little bit read it blushed 17 shades of red and said to to Patty yeah you know that's not that's not a good fit for us um there are I think part of the difficulty in figuring out where there's a line and and it is an evidence that there is a line or you know there wouldn't have been un ially books on that list that were excluded from our libraries because you
134know we we all recognized something about them that put them over over a line for us part of the challenge is at least in my mind is is even the challenge when you read the the code of Virginia you know the way they describe certainly some of those things that I had to look up because I didn't know what they were some of those things are are you know whoa yeah you don't even need you didn't need to to lay that out because there's no way that was ever going to make it um part of I think what's tricky is you know if we make a list and say well a book can't contain can't contain the active sense right so the Fade to Black scene know sometimes we to because we can we visual
135that visualize that in the movies you know does does that fall because there are books that I would Advocate strongly belong our library that contain things like that um you know okay so it specifically describes a sexual act well what's specific you know and and I'm not trying to be difficult like it really is a challenge to put into exact words what what steps across a line that we feel is is appropriate for for the students in our communities and and I will say say that you know coming from from a I'm a little bit of a rude and and and and so there are I'm a situation where If I Stay turn long enough I will have nieces and nephews who come through and you know there are books that that belong in our
136collection because they they meet the parameters for some of our parents and yet if if my niece was to bring that as a freshman to the collection or to the desk to check out maybe not as a librarian but certainly as an uncle I'm going to say mother you want to read that and you know because that's the reality of of a a library collection is that there there is enough there's there's breath to meet the needs of everybody and and what I would want if I had kids what I would want them reading is not going to be the same as as what some other people choose there are clearly things that do not belong in high school those are Elementary School libraries and none of us would argue that um and and and
137yet there because because it's so hard to Define that line and explain exactly what things don't belong you know we're always going to have those wherever the line is wherever we we we we put the line um you're always going to have things that that we're going to have to to debate which side of that line they really are um whether we move that line to an extreme one way or another or somewhere in the middle does that make sense like however however we Define it there's going to be the the interpretation um that is involved and and that really to to a great degree that the conversation of the whole book is not us trying to be difficult but there can be there can be a a a book where a a book where
138a character experiences rape and certainly how that's described matters but but that can be something that happens and the way that happens can exclude a book but there can also be books where where the sad reality is is that we have kids who have had that spirits and and and and there are books that that portray that in a way that is empowering and healing for now and so that's where it just it's it's just really really complicated and again you know that's not us trying to to be hard to get along with and saying you know we can't really give you an exact line um but but I think that's the reality that we struggle [Music] with thank you thank you for adding that thisday anything else [Music] well we will be announcing [Music]
139our we will be announcing our next time our meetings going forward with us we do want to say thank you for coming out today and taking your time to speak with us we understand this is a very touchy subject for many of us and doing our best to represent our constituents our parents our community and uh we also understand that we have a variety of community mbers within count so we we're doing our best to come up with a policy that represents our community and that's what is I'm hoping I believe going to do is we're going to have a policy that represents our community in this and again we it's been said that we had a policy in place we did not have a policy in place Dr sh said this the last we
140had when we did have a book that was Challenge from El school that our attorney said school where it was at had nothing to do with you know I brought this something the last meeting I think a lot lot lot of may feel this is a personal attack on yourself from us and I hate that you feel that way because that's not my heart or my motive or our motive soon so that hurts us that hurts me to think that you think that that this is a personal time on me when as I said in our in our elementary libraries I don't think we have problem sexual material that's in there if there was a book that was in there then that [Music] I'm sure we had it's these other books that are in middle
141and high where do we draw those lines uh where that's at and there are many examples that that we could SP a lot more time reading from today from books that we on that list and that we can't read in public meeting at a school Point View because it would be inappropriate to read in a public setting and so the question is then why is it allowed inside of our Public School libraries and so if we can't read that book at a public meeting where there are ad be interpred where's that so that's the hard task that we're assigned from our community to come up with is where that line is at and that's what we're going to do our very best job as a school board coming up of that line so thank you
142for the dialogue thank you for coming out today we appreciate um the responses that we have received and we will be back with you with the next step where the procress that to make if you do have questions please see us at the end of this meeting thank you