Planning Board Meeting December 14 2023

001good evening everyone and welcome to the ashon planning board meeting Thursday December 14th 2023 um we will have two um public hearings tonight that involve the um uh 320 Pawn Street um the the current site of mazi's restaurant and 400 Cedar Street which is a special permit um with T-Mobile the third public hearing we do have listed 9 to 49 Homer Avenue has asked for a continuance and so we will deal with that when when we get there um but first on the agenda tonight well first I'll call the meeting to order at uh 7:20 and um remind everyone that the that the meeting obviously is being broadcast and and recorded three members of our board um are all have um illness related uh reasons for not for not being here T is is the

002season so we have three of our members there in person and three members um including our associate member who are who are online so it really is a very hybrid meeting this evening so um everyone can have uh hopefully patience as we go back and forth a little bit other than that the first thing on our agenda is the clerk's report Kate are you ready with the clerk's report this evening yes Madam chair we the planning board has received eight emails since the last planning board meeting uh few of them have come in the past like day or so so I have not responded and and some of those are for a hearing tonight so we may we may hear from some of those people as well okay great thank you um at this time

003I will at the um the next item on our agenda is public comment I will open it up for general public comment if you have a comment that best fits under one of our agenda items today it would probably be best um to wait until that agenda item if you can otherwise I I will open it up for public comment limiting it to three minutes uh per resident uh so we have one person at the podium at this time Mr Mark Don please introduce yourself with your name and address okay Mark son 49 hathon Road sorry here about all the illnesses it is it is the season um I'm I'm going to ask a question that will'll be involved in the two agenda items and I was going to ask a um how it can

004be run better CU each each usually agenda item no matter what it is it usually like takes about an hour to go through I like like to ask the question halfway through like 40 45 40 so minutes into it why can't you stop in ask citizens participation so you can get fresh ideas to keep going at a better Pace why can't that happen well I'll answer that that sometimes that does happen Mark that every public hearing is different every meeting is different and so we go by what we are doing that evening and when is the most appropriate time for public comment so often everything doesn't fit into such a rigid uh formulaic way of doing things but um we'll certainly try to get in public comment on all the um agenda items this evening

005because the reason why I'm saying that because I w i watch it at home I kind of know that it goes on for a pretty good amount of time and I turn I turned my zoom on and I turn take the headphones off turn the TV on CU it's on whacka and then I listen from there I stretch out on my bed so I won't fall asleep sting sitting town because I know there's a lot of detail that happens but if people can get involved more they'll be more active for the um to the public that's about it for now so if it can change for the better for public to um pick up the pace in it it' be good thank you uh thank you Mr Don at this current time there are no

006other um public comments okay um we will then go to the first item on our agenda the first public hearing which is 320 Pawn Street um for anyone listening at home this is the um current Mazi restaurant building um Peter do you have an introduction to that uh yes so tonight is the opening of the uh here the application so I'm just going to hopefully uh excuse me bear with me while I read this into the public record the pling board will open the public hearing to hear the petition for JP Morgan Chase Bank NA requesting site plan review and design review per chapter 40a section 6 of the Massachusetts zoning act in chapter 280 excuse me 282 D um comment 9.6 design review and 9.4 site plan review of the Ashen bylaws the applicant

007is proposing the development of the existing site of 320 Pawn Street a financial institution known as Chase Bank will operate internally within the typical Bank hours with a secure ATM vestibule open 24 hours a day the overall project site is 38,3 33 sare ft in the Adaptive work will cons will consist of external excuse me exterior improvements pedestrian safety and Property Maintenance the property in question is located at 33 excuse me 320 Pawn Street assessors map 26 lot 209 and is within the base zoning District Highway Commerce and the overlay District Pawn Street mixed use overlay District uh excuse me so at this current time um we we we the planning board uh have received this application and we are opening up the hearing for C plan approval and so representing the application uh I

008would like to introduce Josh kleene and also Mr Andy Fitz uh so Josh and and Andy uh I will make you co-host so you can share your screen and please proceed with your presentation great thank you and thank you for having us tonight so again my name is Josh Klein I'm with st field engineering and design we are the site civil as well as the traffic engineer on the project um we're excited to be in front of the board this evening and kind of start the process so I definitely will be brief I'm happy to answer any questions we kind of understand you know we'll be back in front of the board as we kind of work through the process but just to kind of share my screen and kind of highlight what we're I'm

009just to kind of show the site so you know this is an Adaptive reuse application Chase is going to be um kind of maintaining the building um for the for the application maintaining the parking areas and the access um but we will be doing um you know kind of some cleanup around the site so um I think a couple areas I just want to kind of highlight is that large kind of trash enclosure kind of the large freezer on the right hand side of the building and then this picture does a nice job you could see you know those improvements that were done with to do that kind of damaged a lot of the Landscaping over there um so just had to exit out what I'll could I wanted to kind of pop open is

010the landscape plan I'll kind of Orient the site and then show just some visuals of the building um so kind of highlighting those key areas again there's there's not there's not much site Improvement the site is is really kind of locked in in a lot of ways you know the access um can't really be modified the parking areas you know we're maintaining the building so our goal really is to try to kind of clean the site up introduce some additional Landscaping features and really you know make the site operate well and operate safely um so Chase is going to be removing the trash enclosure that I highlighted and kind of putting a smaller enclosure in the place of where the freezer is so that external freezer is being removed they're introducing some additional landscaping and

011what would be really nice about that is that will kind of help soften up this Viewpoint I think if you've been out there today and seen this beside of the building a lot of Mechanicals freezer equipment there's really no Landscaping um then we'll kind of go through and and freshen up the land escaping around the site we're going to be providing new adaa parking spaces the current spaces um do not meet the slope requirements and then we're all applicants also going to go in and we're going to kind of clean up the front edge so there's a lot of landscaping that was damaged um that was part of the original approval so what you know we're proposing is kind of going in and replacing any of those shrubs that might have been damaged during the

012dot Improvement um and kind of re replanting kind of Pawn Street again to kind of again bring the site you know up to standard when Chase moves in that's kind of the quick overview of the site again you know it's really kind of a tenant fit out in a lot of ways you know Chase is kind of coming into this restaurant space and kind of building it out um wanted to pull up the color elevations um as well these were these were submitted I think this does a nice job kind of showing um you know the architectural features you know one of the things I like looking at is you can kind of see that new Landscaping by the trash um that's being reposed again kind of softening that that of the building um um

013some again you can see some of the parking lot plantings and kind of the new architecture of the building um we also submitted which I will kind of jump to is just a 3D representation um kind of of the proposed Improvement so again kind of Chase looking to you know kind of bring in their own their own standards and branding um to the existing building but again kind of maintaining the massing the parking areas kind of the improvements out there today um that's really a high level um you know look at the at the application I mean I'm happy to answer any questions and kind of get into any of the the technicalities as well all right um so thank you for the the the brief overall um presentation I think at this time I'd

014just like to open it up to the planning board for um obviously any general questions comments about where the project is at this time um I can start with one we received uh a email to the board asking about I think that was publicized about there was because it's a restaurant there's grease traps and they're going to be removed and I think it was just a valid comment is there any way they're not completely removed saved because uses over time change and I think it was just in keeping with sort of a green community of ashelin not taking away resources that could be used and also if if someday that was a restaurant again it would save someone money going in um and I I don't think um I just wanted to make sure that

015was raised I don't see thoughts of the applicant on that yeah you know again we'll have to work with um you know the health department and building department um to firm if you know if there would there's a way that we can do that successfully but it's definitely something we can bring up to the team uh to see if they can accommodate and then I think I have um if I remember correctly on the submission I appreciate thank you for very detailed of matching up with bylaws and requirements and I might be misremembering this but I think along the front there is missing a tree to be compliant with our bylaws and I I think you said maybe it's not going to really fit but I wonder if there's a way to revisit that or

016somewhere on the property no no I I can hear you oh I can hear everybody now okay I I was wondering um if Kate was referring to trees that may might be missing from parking areas just to understand her question more fully um well I was going to bring that but I think if the parking is not changing I'm not sure that we can talk about that but maybe we can but I I think it was well sure yes let's let's ask about that and I think along the front it said that there was one short from what would be required but they were kind of matching what's there yeah so we we do meet the parking lot trees um so the you know kind of the restaurant only had three of them um we

017did add an additional two trees it we did have to kind of offset them a little bit the site's kind of riddled with Seer drainage water easement so even if you even if you wanted to you know build a new building you really probably couldn't just there's so many easement um but we were able to get the parking lot trees um the site was approved with three Street trees so we're kind of maintaining those existing Street trees I can kind of share the chair we are um kind of looking to supplement um that all that Landscaping along the front and kind of infilling what's out there today um but again so we had these kind of Three Trees we added to additional um kind of avoiding a water line and an easement and then there's

018these two trees along the frontage and then this additional tree here so those are those three existing Street trees that are going to be protected do you have any any other questions Kate before I jump in um I'm good for now thank you um and and please um it be a little bit difficult from being virtual to um obviously being in the room so uh jump in uh planning board um as you need to it's hard for me to see everybody um but my question was in in the documentation that was submitted to the town it it seems like um on one of the elevations or maybe multiple elevations one side of the building is is for Chase and then another side of the building is maybe for something else um and I was wondering

019if there's more more information about that it's a great question so I mean the the Chase Bank will not be taking the full building um so there is kind of available space for a future tenant but at this time as part of the the site plan approval application um we're just proposing um the Chase Bank so you the hope is you know something may work out maybe Chase expands into that future space or in the future and if Chase is able to collaborate with another tenant um but we are just here for the chase at this point other questions from the planning board Trisha I'll jump in um okay so in looking at the site I think this makes this this project makes a lot of sense um my questions were were just out of

020curiosity I I was reading a little bit about Chase's um solar power and EV charging station efforts around the country I think Chase has been kind of leading that way um as you might know Ashland um the town of Ashland through its town meeting about a year or so back approved a net zero initiative um and as a planning board we've been more sensitive to those types of initiatives are you at all interested uh in trying some solar on the site or having some um EV charging stations on site that are public where people can bring their car and and do that um and then in addition as you know that Route 126 has is going to have some bike paths on it um any possibility of maybe having some um storage for bikes or

021a place for folks who are moving down 126 on bikes to pull over and rest uh some sort of maybe place for them to sit or or a place to to leave a bike um anything like that that you're willing to do yeah it's it's great great feedback and great questions um so the good news is I have a little bit of time to kind of get with the team um to discuss it so um what we'll do is kind of between now when we go to the design review process and come back uh we'll meet with the team and kind of see what initiatives um or ideas we might be able to kind of bring in front of the board that'd be great and just to to clarify I don't I don't think I'm

022suggesting that the board require that this is not a special permit it's more of a conversation to see if Chase would be willing to do that um and if we can find some some ability to partner that way um and it would be exciting for Ashland and hopefully exciting for you as well as the applicant Peter a question for Peter machic um at what point in the process I mean this site obviously um was before the planning board not not too many years ago um but I I assume it still needs to go through um given any changes in parking needs to go through through some kind of technical review at the police department and the fire department um would that be would would that be happening soon in in this process yeah so these

023plans are going to be have been distributed to the planning off I mean to the fire department police department that hasn't been done well has been done I just haven't received any comments back could we could we augment that request to sort of see that if there is willingness by the applicant to have some EV charging stations for cars that that would be reviewed by the fire department as well of course yeah of course yeah so obviously it's an early stage and and we're happy to have a tech review meeting that hasn't been developed yet however you know we're happy to and and I spoken with the applicant I know they they I know I understand their time frame and their timeline uh but the plans um the plans have been circulated and and comments

024are will be kind of fed back through the planning board um any other questions from the board if I could just I had oh go ahead I just wanted to uh State for the record that although I'm not a direct butter I do live at the condos at leech Mir behind Shaws and I think I'm like within 100 feet of being a director butter but I'm not um so I just want to make sure that the public is aware that I do live fairly close but I'm not technically in a butter and therefore I am allowed to be in this in this uh decision process but I wanted to disclose it for the applicant and the public thank you and I had wanted to um not knowing at the time that we'd have such a

025split meeting I did have um and I I think I think it went forward had Peter put in um the binders Peter let me know if it if if it it wasn't able to happen but to have um the uh the bylaws that relate to um the site plan review and design plan review you know what Trisha um I apologize you did ask me and I dropped the ball so I was focused on getting other things in the packet so uh so I apologies yeah that that's okay I mean like I said I kind of we ended up to have a very uh split format here unexpectedly this evening so I had just wanted to um you know given that you know Amanda is new to the board and um this uh type of project

026of kind of a change of use in a way is um is fair is fairly new that um I was going to kind of direct our attention a little bit to what um like what are the requirements of site plan review what what we're looking for in that context and I don't think we need to go through the the whole list here I think the board has a general understanding but um but maybe those we can make sure those are in the um you know in for next time or or sent around um the things that go into um site plan review are both basic things like Wetlands Scenic views minimizing um vegetation removal screening objectionable features different things about um utilities um noise abatement um parking things like that zoning requirements so um it's

027a little bit different list uh as We Know Than a special permit um but I'll let the Board review those you know review those on on their own we're obviously this is just opening this project but we going to pay attention to those and the other thing is that will be I assume um we wanted this to open here but it might move fairly quickly to the design Review Committee that will be looking at um really looking at carefully the exterior facade um and given given given Marcelo and I's review of those criteria in in Fair detail um in dealing with 9 to 49 um Homer um I just wanted to those were going to go be in the binders as well but I I thought just to I'll just briefly read through those so

028we kind of know what goes into um what goes into the design Review Committee um which this which this project would trigger one is um landscape of course number two is building orientation but under building orientation there's a number of um considerations height Street facade spacing of buildings or signs materials textures and colors roof slopes and scale obviously some of those are relevant to an existing building and some of them are not number three is open space um landscape and usable Heritage so anything historic probably not a lot on this site pedestrian access um which would include bicycle facilities um and actually that's that's the last one for for actual criteria so I just wanted to kind of list those out knowing that what we will be um you know if if we're ready to

029send it right away to the design Review Committee that that that would be the list of what we would be asking them to investigate Marcelo yeah you beat me to the punch on that one I've been looking at the at the B laws and to me I mean from what I've seen this project seems to be more of a straightforward uh type of project I think the improvements make sense I agree with Anna and and the comments are good um is is there a way that we could um narrow down the items for the design review to to to of the bad remove those that do not apply so we don't get into in into unne necessary review of things that that definitely don't apply at an existing building so yeah I think I know

030the answer I'm just I'm just thinking out loud to see if it seems to be a it should be it should be able to be a kind of a narrow review of of straightforward by law items right right I I would agree with that that'd be any other comments from the board but there's definitely things um well by the way I I was to say that in my opinion this project can be sent to the design review um pretty quick I I don't I don't know that there's any large objections that would we would need to discuss before doing that I I would support the design review I I wonder if there is going to be some potential changes that um Josh said he was going to talk to the client about that that would

031affect like the final um like I think he could Envision some spectacular stuff we were talking about biking things around um and maybe even if it is some solar I don't know so I that that would be my only concern I I would support it but I would have a concern if it's the applicant comes back with some really great stuff but we didn't review that with design review because we already went through that process I think um um I I would say for for one thing that the sustainability list which should applicable to all our projects should also be forwarded um to Mr Klein um who can pass it on to anyone on the on the applicant team and obviously the things on those that list many of them are not going to be

032applicable but they can look for the one such as such as a bike rack that would be applicable you know on that list such as solar things like that um so that so they have that list but that list is um the sustainability list is most of those things really fall under probably the planning board purview it's only things like landscape obviously there's some comments about landscape on that sustainability list that should then cross over to the design Review Committee um I think other things I think in in design review committees um review they would be sticking to to their list as per the bylaw um but that doesn't mean other things that they might have some idea about um where those bike racks might go if if the applicant thought that that was a

033a good idea for their project so there still might be a little back and back and forth there but they it seems to it doesn't seem exclusive that it would um interrupt the process does does that sound okay Kate or yeah that's fine I I could see some changes that would affect obviously landscap rep put but it's that's fine I think if the applicant is ready to go we and the board supports it I I guess I'm comfortable with the applicant bringing those answers directly to the design Review Committee in order to help place them in the landscape um I I I agree with that and and and I think there's no reason to to to delay kind of the process of the application seem this one it's one that merits kind of do do

034things and and see what what can be improved I I think sending the list that we put together for the sustainability features that would be good um but making it clear that there are things there that the town aspires to and uh they're not specific requirements unless they are in the by lot so Ju Ju Just um second thing what what Anna said you know we would like to see a proactive uh offer of of something that that makes sense for the town um but but but I just want to make sure it's clear this is not a a bargaining situation I think um this could we do have a history now of putting together a memo for the design Review Committee and maybe these things can be expressed in that memo um Peter and

035I could put that together um I'm happy to circulate it to the board or if there's just and then and then obviously comments would go back to Peter or if there's just one other person that wants to work with me on that list we could do it that way too I agree and I'll be happy to to work on that if if is is that acceptable to the rest of the board or anyone who wanted to jump in there it's absolutely a straightforward project so very very minimal sight Improvement input is all that we're looking for if at all so as long as we don't complicate it with a short or List quick and in and out would be helpful agreed right is that the general sense of everybody Yes sounds sorry sorry I'm just

036adding that sounds reasonable to me okay thank you I would also say just just as um something that might be helpful for the applicant in going to the design Review Committee that I think would be it would be helpful to have just even just photographs of the current building I'm sure we all have been there but you kind of forget it's it's kind of hard to picture in your mind what what is changing and um and that might be just good make the conversation go easier if you can see what's there now and then and and then just photographs and and just what you're what you're changing um with the uh historic don't forget it was a blockbuster oh that's well those are uh you know oh boy that that is very good point I

037I do have one question for for Josh and I I I didn't quite see it um didn't pay attention when you put up the the site plan um there's a patio in front of one of the proposed new kind of fronts and entrances or that that say Chase um is is that going to to to be modified or use in a different way or or demolish and and done over the the patio is going to remain we're going to redo the landscaping around it just to kind of soften it um but at this time it's going to remain um and you know may be a program piece that the bank uses in the future it could be part of a a future tenant space so they're going to kind of clean it up and and

038Rel landscape it but keep it will the site lighting stay the same or are we looking to add more based on the flow so we are replacing the lighting um we have to meet kind of Bank security standards um just for safety purposes so we are going to be doing new lighting it's downwards downward facing full cut off shielded LED lighting so the goal is really kind of containing it into the areas for Bank customers but it will be kind of all new Lighting on site thank you Peter do you do you know if a a new lighting plan is required by the site review design review process so within the plan there is a lighting a new lighting plan submitted okay sorry I didn't see that yep it's uh sheet C4 okay uh I'm

039looking at it and obviously we'll we'll take a look at it a little bit deeper um into consideration okay um what this time before before we go any further um I will just um open the um open the discussion up for public comment if if there is any at this time and again I'll place a limit of 3 minutes um for speaker so in the room we have no uh we have no public comment and I see no public comment uh via the zoom meeting okay okay well that being the case I'll just summarize that Marcelo and I will work to put together a memo um with Peter to the design Review Committee um reflecting both the design review committee criteria as listed in the bylaws um and also but but looking at those of

040which ones may not be applicable to this project and also looking for minimal intervention where things are already existing such as Landscaping um is that um and and included with that we'll also send over the sustainability list to see when changes are made and when changes are appropriate if if if that list could be taken into consideration does that uh sound like a good summary um I would also add the tech review which I know is obvious but I think we should do a better job like we are of containing where we stand so yes yeah so the tech review is a little bit obviously separate from the memo but um but Peter will obviously make sure that happens and and get that information back to the planning board thank you and just to to

041look at the timeline of the calendar and and to this is you know for Josh and Andy um I think you know looking at looking into 20124 uh which is right around the corner um the first meeting in the of the design Review Committee uh is is earmarked I would say for January 4th um and so it would be January 4th that you may that you is your first opportunity to appear uh with the design Review Committee which would have you coming back to the planning board on January 11th um if that's um acceptable to you and then furthermore I would uh request that we continue uh and push out the date of final decision to at the minimum of January uh 26th that sounds great thank you is is Trisha any other planning board

042members is that from a Time standpoint is that um does that sit okay with everybody so we we would have one more meeting before decisions do is that true there'll be two meetings so we're going to meet uh in January 11th and then January 25th and then coming back on the 11th obviously and receiving input from the design Review Committee then we can kind of take the Pulse of where we stand at that point so I was going to ask that about that Peter so is is is the intent that the 11th we would have had already a memo from the design Review Committee to to discuss at that meeting you know what I think on the 11th I I would I would assume yes the Des Review Committee would have a memo coming back

043to us they at at their last few meetings and and you know speaking you know for in my own opinion the design Review Committee has been pretty good to get memos to the planning board uh you know within within a you know 48 hours of of having their meetings P personally I would rather kick that out just a little bit further because otherwise it just seems like we're always moving these dates and I don't want I don't I I agree um with Marcelo and with other members of the board that this really should be fairly straightforward but we usually also in a meeting go through um criteria you know and we go through um the approval document if if that's the way we're going and that and that does take some time and sometimes there's

044some answers sometimes we're waiting for the tech review to happen and things to get back so I feel like two more meetings to me is okay we're going to be kicking that date down the road you know likely again okay versus having just a more comfortable date and um you know and having a little bit more breathing room here instead of always looking at that date would February 9th be acceptable would that would that would give three meetings with the planning board and February 9th would be the day after the planning board meeting it would be the Friday the day after the first meeting in February I think that's a Min I think that's a minimum for me but it's fine at least it gives us a little breathing room okay is that acceptable to

045the applicant yes okay that'll be fine it's just it should be a straightforward project but there's just always pieces that have to come together and we just keep having to kick that date down the road and it gets a little repetitive I guess appreciate thank you thank you should I make a motion yes please all right I make a motion that we continue the 3 320 Pawn Street site plan approval JP Mor Chase Bank to the January 11th planning board meeting subject to going to design review endorsed by the planning board potentially for the January 4th meeting subject to an extension of the date till February 9th 2024 is there a second yes on second and a roll call vote andit I I Katherine Jers I and terisha Kendall I so that is continued until

046January 11th thank you thank you very much all right all right next on our agenda um is the special permit um application for 400 Cedar Street the applicant is T-Mobile Northeast Peter can you give us an update yep uh excuse me so since the last time uh this application's been in front of the board um the applicant uh has has gone through and completed all peer review um with our uh peer review Halen Ward and so this application was supposed to appear at our last meeting we continued uh because that was not completed yet however since our last meeting a new plan has been submitted um actually two new revisions have been submitted um there was letters going back and forth um from our peer reviewer and it was just uh today that I received

047uh that's within our packet uh it's a top letter in our packet um from haly and Ward uh d dated December 14th that the approved excuse me that the proposed um application of moving the antennas from the top of the water tower to the side uh is acceptable in all uh construction methods uh furthermore I do want to highlight an email from Adam brayy December 13th um and that included a um uh a letter which is dated December 13th um regarding the engineering evaluation regarding the anchor antenna installation and that is a stamped letter from a civil engineer um and that is within everyone's packet furthermore I want to identify December 12th uh T-mobile installation on Cedar Street peer review number two and then additionally uh November 22nd install T-Mobile installation on Cedar Street structural

048peer review number one uh and so those elements are all here tonight uh furthermore I think the planning board has received a few emails uh those have been printed out and added to the packet um and that's what's what's in everyone's packet uh I did include a uh legal memorandum dated o December 8th 2022 from Lisa me and that was dealt with a very similar plany board application uh which was on 20 Pond n Rosa Road uh mean 2020 it's correct correct I'm sorry2 thank you uh that was added uh just as some uh to help any uh if if the planning board or any members or a question comes up regarding legal guidance uh so that was added uh here tonight so with that said um uh from a from a structural standpoint um

049the applicant has met the standards of the town of Ashland and it has been peer reviewed uh uh which is which is a typical uh process that we go through uh anytime um we're mounting telecommunications equipment onto town-owned property in this case this is the uh water tank at 400 Cedar Street so other than those updates um I would like to hand it over to the applicant uh who is represented tonight by attorney Adam brayy uh thank you Peter members of the board again Adam brard with Prince B Thai uh just for the record also um on the zoom is is Garrett uh Conroy Garrett is with Center Line Communications he's the project manager for um this this project can answer any additional questions that the board may have relevant to the application uh I

050think Peter summed it up um pretty well we've been working T-Mobile has been just a quick history I think I think it's on the record but just so um the board and the public knows T-Mobile's been at this location since 2002 and has modified the site two or three times um since then the latest requested modification was in January 20122 so just under two years ago where it um was looking to replace its an some of the antennas currently on the tank are um three sets of three panel antennas on the top of the tank so nine panel antennas with some remote radio units and some tmas or Tower mounted um antennas um for ancillary uh equipment what the um applicant back then in in January 2022 asked the um town to do was the

051right to just um replace I think maybe six of those nine antennas keep the same number of antennas um the town at that point under the guidance of um third party consult consultant Haley Ward said you know you should really consider putting these uh antennas on the side of the tank and not on the top um the applicant was amendable to that at the same time the um the underlying agreement with the town was um up for Renewal so the town issued a request for proposal for lease agreements on the tower which T-Mobile um responded to and was awarded the bid I think in May of um 2022 September um let me just back up to those dates uh yeah T-Mobile responded to that bid and in May 2023 um and then um we negotiated

052T-Mobile negotiated a new lease agreement with the town um for an installation of its equipment on the side of the tank and and um entered into that lease agreement I think the end of the summer where was fully executed and then in August uh early September we filed the uh modification of the special permit here with the with the board to uh relocate those antennas the the installation will actually include um eight panel antennas so not nine so we're actually going to be reducing the number of antennas and that's simply because of the locations that we're proposing on the on the tank and where the where the town wants um team will to go they'd like to have the full nine array but they're only going to get eight they're good they're okay with that

053and then some anary um remote radio units so I think that's it we the applications filed under the um 2012 fed fedal tax um Relief act I just want to make sure I say that exact term correctly it's um it's under what we call the Spectrum act which is the federal middle class relief in jobs creation Act of 2012 and specifically under that act section 649 or what we call the Spectrum act which is basically um allows carriers to collocate on existing facilities or base stations provided they don't substantially change the dimensions of that uh facility we clearly don't change that um the any we don't substantially change those Dimensions we're not um increasing the height of the the tank we're actually going from I think 99 ft on top of the tank down to

05475 ft the height at the top of the tank is 91 ft so we comply with that requirement um we are uh not going to um protrude from the exterior of the tank by more than 6 ft it's going to be more like 2 ft similar to the other antennas that are on the on the side of the tank we're not going to um um be doing any excavation on the outside of the site I don't think we're doing any excavation because our equipment and is all above ground with our cabling on cable trays um where we are installing we Curr T-Mobile currently has two um equipment cabinets on site we're going to be replacing one of those with two smaller ones the uh eligible facilities re request substantial um requires that you not go

055above four um radio uh cabinet so we'll be at three um we comply with um the any uh requirements from the prior decisions with respect to any conditions that the town had had and to the extent that there were any um uh concealment or stealthing requirements as part of those prior decisions comply with those there were none so um we're we're conforming to the existing characteristics of the tank with respect to the antenna sizes and um well obviously I'm not sure if it's in the plans but we would um agree to paint the the antennas to match the color of the tank should the town want to do that so we certainly comply with the um what we call the 649 Spectrum act and I think because of that the you know the board would

056you know should should move forward with its um with its decision thanks thank you thank you um at this time I'd like to open it up to questions from questions or comments from the board I I I'll go Trisha no in my view I think the the only item that we had discussed that we were concerned about was the structural uh integrity and the and the analysis of the structural engineer that haven't been um confirmed positive um I don't think there's any any other things in my mind that that need to be reviewed thank you any any other members of the board um I don't know if it's a question but I was curious about all the emails that we got about uh the concern from Health point of view from lot of the citizens

057that I'm just curious uh is there something that we can do to make sure that we first acknowledge all those emails but also at the same time um make sure that by approving such developments we are not really causing a long-term damage um and ignoring all the emails so I'm curious like does the public health team ever vain in all these topics is that something that could have gone their way just to make sure that we can respond to all the emails that we've been getting you know I think so are you asking Deepa um that you're right a lot of the emails um arrived just in the last day or so um and haven't really had obviously I Kate had acknowledged that they were received but um not not responded to because it just

058hasn't been time so are you um are you feeling that um that given the emails that were received it would be it would like is there time to to acknowledge that that receipt and get back to the residents um before moving forward is that your question um more so um yes acknowledging those emails is different thing but kind of responding to make sure that um as a planning board we are looking into the health concerns that folks have and I don't know if it's something that we could have um expertise team like our Public Health that we have weigh in on such topics I'm not sure if that's even a so I mean this is a I think I really appreciate what Deepa is saying and where my head is at is what I like

059in your comment is we may have legal obligation to not consider the health issues presented to us as part of the spectrum act right on the other hand the public seems to have grave concerns that we may not have the jurisdiction to address is there another entity that the public can go to to essentially air out the concerns and feel confident that although the Federal Law requires certain kinds of activity and by the way it's not just federal law I don't know uh how many members of the public are here with these concerns but I'll say that just yesterday uh there was a news article at least two towns in Massachusetts have attempted to create a moratorium against this type of technology and the AG's office the state of Massachusetts has ruled that that's not

060appropriate and so there is pretty recent controversy around the issues of the health of these kinds of Technologies in Massachusetts and so we as members of a public committee I think need to recognize that there is controversy out there but there's also very very strong Federal and local Authority indicating that organizations such as this one cannot limit this technology so we have to be cognizant of both our legal our legal limitations we cannot say no for health reasons but the Public's concerned so on that issue my personal opinion is that the health concerns out there the reason they are so delicate and controversial is because there has not been definitive research to outright say one way or the other there's been research that is fairly uh all over the place and there are some scientists

061who are leaning one way and there's others who are leaning another way and uh that to me my personal opinion is that that appears to be why there is so much controversy in this field and I will simply State a personal preference that I hope that there will be more significant research locally we live in Massachusetts it's a very intelligent educated State and I would urge the public to bring their concerns towards the scientific community and to really push for more research on this topic so that folks like us are not simply our hands are not just tied um because at this point it appears that the research is not so significant that the federal government or the state um are changing their perspective so until they do until the research shows definitively the concerns

062that the public appears to have um that's where we are so that's my own personal opinion in in my opinion just to answer your question I think obviously if it's a Board of Health matter you know it can be taken up by the Board of Health um is it a Zone yes we do have zoning and and Zoning has been a tool to kind of instrument the placement of of of telecommunication Towers I think overall if it's if it becomes if it's a concern of this citizens I think it doesn't it touches more than just a zoning Bo the board excuse me it touches more than just a planning board who reviews the zoning it also touches the Board of Health and it touches the board of selectman because it's a policy issue and so

063I think that's where I would stand but I think regarding the Spectrum act and and the application I think we have to we we are we have to limit ourselves to the application our bylaws current bylaws not our any future bylaws and then kind of go from that point on I um and I I appreciate that uh that summary I thought it was um ve very clear and it kind of describes um the kind of the kind of tricky place that the planning board um you know finds itself in that that we do have um we do have federal laws and other regulations that we that we need to follow that we are not um we don't have um an authority above those um but yet our residents um you know have the right to

064show concerns about about those things and obviously we we care about our residents so it puts us in a very tricky position about about perhaps dealing with some issues um that just that just isn't in our realm of expertise you know um and and and as you say are kind of waiting for um some more definitive information that that we can utilize as well in doing our job so um I I appreciate that um I I appreciate that analysis I I want to see if there's anyone else on the planning board who would like to speak and then I wanted to open it up for public comment anyone else from the planning board okay then we will um I will open it up for public comment again um three minutes per resident I I see

065a li limited amount of people online here Peter um maybe you can manage whoever's in the room sure no I'll I'll I'll manage everyone in the room and I have my timer um so we have currently one person at the podium Miss CC duet thank you Peter and if I may there are a number of residents who wanted to be here tonight and couldn't and ask that I speak on their behalf as well I have prepared an 8-minute statement that I hope you'll allow me to present to you um how does the planning board feel about that I'm looking for inut I'm I'm supportive I I appreciate that fellow board members are supportive of hearing from the public given our difficult legal situation we at least need to hear okay okay thank you very muchow

066CE sorry I I will allow that but we will be keeping to that timeline of eight minutes okay thank you Trish you're welcome my name is Cecilia ducet I'm an Ashlin resident and and the director of Massachusetts for safe technology and the international nonprofit Wireless education thanks to each of you for giving your time to our town please do not approve modification for the T-Mobile special permit that was granted in 200 and two until you consult with an expert attorney who writes protective zoning bylaws for municipalities much has happened in the 21 years since that permit was first granted today we know far more about Wireless technology risks and the laws that govern them than we did when your predecessors unwittingly approved special permit that allowed cell towers in residential areas today we know there

067are several Public Safety risks over which you do have control public safety risk number one cell towers and related equipment have been the cause of major fires from coast to coast you may remember the Spencer Church fire that burned to the ground recently it had cell antennas in the steeple that served as a lightning rod it is important to know that a cell tower fire cannot be immediately extinguished by firefighters with an electrical fire the power company has to First kill the power to prevent the firefighters from becoming electrocuted this process can take up to an hour in which time especially if it's a windy day the entire neighborhood can burn down the Cedar Street cell tower has homes very close by in all directions fire risk can leave hundreds of Ashlin residents vulnerable when

068we allow cell towers in at close range public risk number two is legal liability did you know that Lloyds of London Swiss re am best and other major insurers have long since recognized radi frequency radiation as a world leading risk on on par with asbest and do not provide insurance coverage they have put exclusions in their policies which can leave Ashland assuming liability if our zoning code is not protective public safety risk number three is energy consumption did you know that wireless technology consumes 10 times more energy than hardwired connections and that the itle E forecast 5G will use three to four times more energy than 4G Wireless technology is a leading contributor to climate change public safety risk number six is there has been no safety testing Wireless industry Representatives admitted to us Senator

069Richard Blumenthal at a congress Committee hearing that they have not funded any independent research to prove 5G is safe before coming to Market in a 4-minute clip I will send to you Senator Blumenthal correctly States so as far as safety is concerned we are Flying Blind here studies show that close-range cell towers decrease property values and in town and in turn our Town's tax revenue Ashlin deserves better and there are many fine examples to follow a good attorney in Wayland helped years ago to establish zoning setbacks that recently allowed the town to legally reject a cell tower application at the whan Roden gun club which abuts a neighborhood we know the industry routinely threatens to sue uninformed towns if they reject an application The Tide Is Now turning last year Pittsfield Massachusetts residents opened a

070lawsuit against the city after a cell tower made 17 children and adults so sick that they had to abandon their homes the Massachusetts Association of Health boards sent an amicus brief to the court in support of the citizens and we are awaiting the judge's ruling on that last month public servants in Stanford Connecticut through the initiative of their state representative took the time to become informed on wireless risks and rejected a plan the industry had crafted with the governor to place 5G small cells inside neighborhoods Stanford even said the threat of a lawsuit is not reason enough to put citizens In Harm's Way just last week the Burlington Public Ser uh Burlington Mass planning board voted 7 to zero to reject an industry influence zoning law update they voted to instead hire a consultant who

071specializes in Telecom law and can skillfully represent the town's best interest not the industries just yesterday Children's Health defense filed a groundbreaking lawsuit for Ada protections for a man injured by cell tower radiation just like with big tobacco The Tide Is Now turning on big Wireless 5G is a bad choice for our communities and our planet the industry pushes more product which then requires more capacity which then requires more hazardous cell towers 5G uses exis ing 3G and 4G longer wavelengths to carry signal and data plus 5G adds another untested layer of radio frequency radiation using short millimeter waves that quickly degrade in bad weather industry solution is to fill our neighborhoods with millions of cell antennas right outside our bedrooms so their signals can get through to the devices they've convinced you you need

072the responsible solution for Ashland and every Community is fiber optics to and through the premises once we are wired we do not need Clos range cell towers and we can meet industry's capacity needs with existing equipment responsibly placed away from sensitive areas like homes schools medical facilities senior centers and recreational areas the industry however is prone to taking the path of least resistance they Target location where they don't have to pay to run electrical lines or to pave roads to the tower hence the cell anten is installed dangerously close in residential areas the New Hampshire legislature has already investigated 5G risks and issued this groundbreaking report recommending science-based setbacks at a minimum of 500 M or 1,640 ft transitioning away from unsafe wireless connections for primary connectivity and investing in fiber to and through the

073premises other communities are already doing this around the world and Anna to answer your question the FCC has now been sued for ignoring 11,000 pages of scientific evidence of harm we do not need more science we need public policy to catch up my ask of you today is threefold first pause T-Mobile's modification request for the 2002 special permit and engage the services of attorney Andrew Campanelli Mr Campanelli worked for industry for years until he realized the harm they are inflicting and now he represents municipalities he's one of the nation's leading experts in Telecom law and he can advise us on our legal options with this T-Mobile application second for the short fee of $88,500 Mr Campanelli can review our existing zoning bylaws and recommend rewrites to help Ashlin retain local control to the fullest extent

074allowable under current state and federal law third I would like to partner with the planning board the select board and the Board of Health to provide towns sponsored educational Forums on wireless risks and safer Technology Solutions I've done so with the hansam Maria Town select board as well as with Town health and the burkers citizens and municipality leaders are grateful to learn the facts and safer ways to still access today's technology but without these very dangerous risks and to codify it in their zoning bylaws thank you I'd be happy to answer any questions are there any questions from the board Peter are there any res other residents um in the room that were looking for an opportunity to speak of course no uh there's somebody coming to the podium okay thank you hi my name

075is Lori Wen and I co-administer sustainable Upton and environmentally oriented group of Upton with 373 members we've been working with our planning board to update our wireless bylaw that was written in 2012 during the age of large cell towers with long slow waves a mile away from people's homes in May of last year at our town meeting we weren't able to get the two-thirds needed to pass that new bylaw but we had a commanding majority of citizens vote with us to show their concern now we are working closely with our planning board to finalize a better bylaw we hope to pass this may we are told that 5G need instead of the long slow waves from a mile away we are told that it needs to be on light utility and Telo telephone poles every

0762 to 500 ft right outside our homes our schools playgrounds daycare centers and senior housing there's been no safety testing this close infrastructure or the effect of the satellites that surround the world the Earth and pulse microwave radiation down to these cell antennas we don't know it's effect on children adults pets or wildlife the wh classifies emf's radio frequency radiation in the same category as lead and DDT because of this we are basing our bylaw on one written by a telecon litigation attorney the same one that CC just spoke about and hope to work with him to have an effective bylaw that protects Aesthetics which is allowed in the FCC law property values and safety which are also allowed the bylaw we are using as our basis has already been been accepted approved and is

077in use many public servants were skeptical of the need for this at first but now they see our citizens concerns and they have concerns themselves our Board of Health did not feel there was enough information for them to rule that they felt that wireless technology was safe and they have submitted that to our planning board so they have that information as well in addition as we have heard it is a climate killer and I heard you have a zero uh policy for climate in this town which is wonderful but the small cell antennas that are going to go on all the telephone poles right outside of homes all emit energy and they will and they're combustible as well and they would not fit I don't think within those guidelines so I feel that um I'm

078very grateful for the opportunity to speak about this and I'm glad to hear that the tide is turning I'm aware of those cases out in western Mass they uh uh moratorium is not okay but a strong bylaw is a very good effective tool and I hope you'll consider it thank you thank you uh next to the podium Mr Mark Doon Mr Mar do please introduce you yourself the name and address okay M I'm thinking the board to let cc go full length with her her readings there I'm looking at this is through the uh the emails that came in did the emails come in dueing business hours yes or no yes they did Mark was there any border Health officials in the office at the time the the the you put me on the spot

079Mark but but yeah you know the the direct the board of health manager you know Mr Raj Gupta was probably in the office yes property in the office oh not sure he was we both have very busy schedules Mark so to say he was in his seat I can't confirm nor deny but uh now the reason why I'm saying that because the people were in trouble themselves to send emails if they didn't want a response from the Board of Health department so I'm coming to it they saying was there a Bo of health personnel that saw those emails before this meeting tonight no and you said they my property was here in the office in their in their department but they didn't see the emails why well Mark number one they were not addressed to

080the Board of Health they were sent to the planning board to the ashin planning board account but it had bo health issues had health issues so so Mark to your point and this was going to be my comment as a planning board member to the planning board I I think for me as I'm listening to the public input including your questions what it boils down for me is the the federal and state law in light of our current bylaw truly limits what this planning board can do however if there is citizen concern just like in Upton that specific information needs to come to the Board of Health citizens should and could do that in addition if citizens want to propose a bylaw a town meeting in Ashland or involve the planning board or request planning

081board involvement for a bylaw that for example Narrows in certain uh setbacks not a moratorium but setbacks related to schools for example I have not seen such a proposal yet right so until those things happen there's there's not a lot that this planning can do with our current bylaw and federal and state regulations and for the setbacks years some years ago including the P Roser and the one up on Cedar extension the water tower there was the setbacks talked about that and this is going to be not going to change because the property itself is not going to be differently set back it's going to stay where it is so the frequency see the r the radio um com combin ohms and everything the technical side things is going to be an issue that the

082board may hear from citizens again but I sure that the citizens who did these emails would like to get an answer from the Board of Health themselves maybe the Board of Health can come in as an agenda item to come in to talk about this the next time it comes in and get their opinions so those emails can be answered properly thank you and I just want to clarify that when I brought this topic up I think um I understand that it's definitely under not our preview to kind of make that call but I'm just surprised that all those emails came to the planning board instead of Board of Health which would have been the right way to come to kind of a solution for that um those questions instead of coming to the planning

083board so I think that's where I was wondering um why the Board of Health was not involved in these emails versus the planning board where we definitely like Anna very nicely put it it's not in our jurisdiction to even look at those concerns unfortunately I I think as well um many of the concerns that were mentioned and then talking about um revision of bylaws um and and also some of I'm familiar with many of the news articles that Miss Miss deette mentioned um and many of them involved um locations of new cell towers which is not what we're doing here our bylaws may may maybe they do need an updating is for for new cell towers th this is about a specific federal law about replacement of of existing um you know things that are

084already on existing towers and and that's what this um application falls under um you know maybe our bylaws far as other things maybe they they could look use um a closer look and updating I'm I'm certainly not opposed to that nor nor is it an area of my expertise but um but the the the problem at hand is um a lot narrower um I think I think than that um k did you want to weigh in or or Amanda um on this well well I think I mean I appreciate and I think it's clear the board does appreciate public comments um and I think it speaks to me of maybe we have to do a better job of like publicizing when there are limits on things so it it's probably frustrating we're having a public

085hearing and I think we've proven we're very much willing to hear and and we did not ignore them people took those to Heart we're in a position that we cannot do what's being asked except um the looking at the bylaw for the future so I think um I think there is some onus on the board to maybe try to to um maybe even put some of those things on our website about when we're publishing a hearing on a specific thing so people people have easy access to that um I'd like to see that I guess I'm I I I I think I agree with with everything Anna said and and you said um I I think the this explanation is is a very compelling subject to to consider um but but I think we are

086in the third um um hearing on on on this um antenna replacement and I think it's very difficult to come at at this meeting and say please don't approve this based on on on on that long-term uh potential plan for for doing things differently um I think the we are responsible for for dealing with these application under the laws and unless those those laws change I don't know that that we want to um basically submit the the the town to a lawsuit uh of of something that's covered under federal law so it it is kind of a difficult position uh and and um you know changing the the bylaws and investigating more I I think not not many people will will will be against that um but it is I I I just don't see

087the the immediate application to this to this case and and um I I don't think that there's um uh that would have the authority to Simply say oh no we we're just not going to approve it for that reason yeah agreed I think um to Kate's point the you know understanding around and I think this goes to deep as original question the understanding around what we have perview um and jurisdiction over in regards to this application um the two prior hearings and and sort of where those queries were directed as they came in today um this goes back to to Mr Don's question um where you know those came in during business hours to the planning board not to the Board of Health likely because we had this hearing but you know these issues are

088outside of our purview in the scope of this specific application um and so I I also just wanted to thank um everyone for the public comment um but agree absolutely with um Kate and Marcelo and um the other board members uhet it looks like someone else is at the mic yeah we have one person up at the microphone waiting for a public comment so I'm going to introduce oh yeah we're gonna have two people so uh I'm just going to uh turn it over to whoever's at the microphone so please introduce your name and address and you can State your statement um I'm Jay Mackin I'm at 386 Cedar Street so you can figure out that I'm pretty close to 400 um I've been before this board numerous times over the last 20 something years

089uh bought my house in 94 um I will say this when I did my research and figured out that um the Niza thing was under control and I decided to move to Ashland the last thing I anticipated was that this board not necessarily you would continue to make decisions that would drive my property value down well that ship sailed because it already has that being said in light of all kinds of new evidence you're continuing to listen to Big cellular who's working on radiation regulations from 1996 if I'm correct that's a long time ago um I plead with you stop this enough's enough and the FCC is under a lawsuit it's only a matter of time before they start going local and the town and particular board members even could be at risk of having

090put citizens at risk um stop it put an end to it and in fact don't grant their request shut them all down thank you here one comment um oh I'm sorry somebody's going to speak oh okay I can hear you to come back yes hi well no it was it was not about your comment in general it just the but but I I don't want to cut off the the other person that wants that wants to speak I I I was just um going to say but but with with all all these um um um public concern which is which is very important to listen to um these these um um these lease renewal is is a lease that the town is put out for for Public public RFP so the town is is charging

091a lease to to for for these locations so it seems to me that that this effort it's it's again I feel it's very difficult for the planning board to to basically ignore all all the regulations uh but it would be very easy if the if the town as a whole did not want these antennas the town can let the lease simply expire and not renew it that would be a simpler way but but that's that that that would be the right way to approach seems to be the only thing that I can say and I've heard this been pushed over to a board of health issue and not this planning board I've never gotten a notification from the Board of Health to come here and speak about this issue I've only gotten it from this

092board and that goes back over 20 years so if you don't have a the ability to make a decision on this which maybe you don't then why pretend that you do I I think it's I think it's important to understand and I know it's difficult to understand and a number of people who have been um saying this is that um the planning board is put in a very particular very difficult position here that we're we're required to go through this process though we have no control over the other aspects of things and we are legally obligated under federal law to approve these kind of modifications um we don't put out the rfps we don't evaluate Health none of that is in our purview only this little piece we're required by law to send out when

093things come like this for these these kind of U updates we're required by law to notify everyone within 300 ft so that is what we do but our power here when when when someone says stop it stop this from happening it it's it's not within our power to do that we don't have that jurisdiction that power is not given to us so it puts us in a very difficult who power is it in when I get notifications to come to these okay well the FCC is being sued it's coming think about that it's coming Peter was there yes so we have one more person up there would like to make a public comment so please step forward to the microphone and introduce yourself with your name and address hi my name is Melissa I live

094at 173 Leland Farm Road so I am in the ledge Mir um condos as well and from what I could tell from seeing a map I am in the footprint of this uh technology and I do have my own concerns that um are pretty much my own research and experience um I want to make it brief and that's I am very much concerned about anyone just W being willing to wash their hands of this before actually being able to be consulted by people who have been doing the work that have the information that you need um I think it's a great idea if you're worried about legal and I keep hearing the legal the legal the time the time where do we stand where do where where is our voice going to land who is

095going to help us because if we have concerns and you can address them I think someone I I just met these ladies and I didn't know about them um but they have an OB obvious logical solution and that would be to get some legal consultation that would represent um the residents as well as help you be more informed about where where you stand legally because I I would hate to think that after I've invested my all of my time and effort to be a resident of this town that I have no voice that people who have been here for two times longer than I've lived here have no voice and I think that's really what you're trying to sort out is how how much much can you do for us well I think just taking

096the time to think that over and get some legal consultant um that knows how to answer your questions and how to direct that and and tell you what you can do it would be so much better for me as a resident to know that you're making those efforts and not just wash your hands out it so just here where we do have a legal consultant we have Town counsel who offered an opinion okay and so and just to kind of clarify the legal consultant that has been suggested through public comment is someone who works very closely with municipalities to create bylaw changes and that's not what's up for consideration tonight right and so there isn't that I'm aware of there isn't a way to consult your way out of a Federal Regulation that it sounds

097like a lot of people in this room disagree with right so what for me it's really really straightforward we have a federal law and we have state Juris jurisdiction very clean in Massachusetts right now as to what this board can do we also have a democracy we have a town meeting model in this community and we appear to have very strong passionate residents in this room who believe a bylaw should be proposed and that is the proper course of action and you don't need a legal opinion for that you can read our bylaws there's a town meeting model and any citizen concern can be brought through a citizen petition to a town meeting for a bylaw change with any expert that you wish to hire you don't need the planning board to tell you that

098that is democracy in this town period so if you disagree with our jurisdiction and you want to change the laws you can do that through town meeting I I believe that is pushing it down the road when um if other towns are able to but that's what other towns are doing that's direct democracy that's the beauty of America that's why I moved to this country right however I feel that there's there's no consider consideration of what you can do even though the federal law says something there's something else that should be able to represent local municipalities right so our job is to follow the law which is the bylaw the regulation and federal law you're saying we need you to go against it this board is essentially sharing with you an agreement with our Town

099Council that right now the law in this jurisdiction does not allow us to rule against it however it's a direct democracy there is a Town Meeting Mall other towns like Upton have chosen to go to town meeting and create bylaws that are narrow and create setbacks Etc and they're hoping that that will fly and I wish them luck and I hope it does for them because I would support that bylaw if I saw that but that is not what I'm being asked today to rule on I'm not being asked to create a bylaw if we want to have a bylaw conversation my opinion will be I'll support a bylaw that is limited in scope and create setbacks but that's not what we're discussing today I really thought that the zoning thing could be addressed that's

100what I was hoping I have not seen that on our agenda that is not open meeting we we're not discussing the zoning bylaw we're discussing an applicant in front of us based on our current bylaw the current Federal Regulation and the current state regulation that's being discussed by the AG's office with other communities this is the reality on the ground if there is direct democracy interest in changing that your proper mechanism would be town meeting through a bylaw and an attempt just like Upton to go a different route so in other words we have to pay our way to get anything done uh this is the beauty of democracy that it's not about payment it's about acting through voting and through town direct democracy which is town meeting to change laws that you disagree with

101I just don't see a willingness here I'm going to just make that comment thank if I could just clarify when I presented to the planning board it was probably most of you were not on the planning board at the time but Lisa me was there and I asked her if she is an expert in Telecom law and she indicated she is not an expert in Telecom law so with this T-Mobile special permit we are asking that you speak to an expert because the industry leads us to believe that our hands are tied but they're not one little finger might be tied but there are many things that we can often do that our towns simply do not know about out so please give Andrew Campanelli a call he'll do a free consultation on the phone

102with you and tell you what he thinks but do not just go by what you think you've been told by industry or what you've been advised by an attorney who does not specialize in Telecom law so at least do us the courtesy of speaking to Andrew Campanelli and if he says yeah the way it is right now you're screwed T-Mobile is allowed to put that toxic cell antenna up they're allowed to add new technology to that cell tower they're not just replacing antennas they are putting in new technology that we should have local control over not industry with all due respect to our friend from industry here T-Mobile's parent company in Germany in the year 2000 commissioned a study on telecommunications equipment and health and they found cancers DNA damage infertility headaches nose bleed nausea

103dizziness anxiety depression and so much more and they buried the report I have a copy of that report that I will include for you and for the Board of Health please don't just kick this down the road use your voice and get the federal laws changed right now the Telecom industry has dozens of bills that they are working on at the federal level to completely strip every one of our towns of local control that is something you could actively do is stand up as a town and say Do not pass these bills reach out to Jim McGovern Lori and I have already met with Jim McGovern he said Gee that cell that cell phone pulses microwave radiation that dis reggulator maybe that's why I don't sleep anymore so let's do what we can from where

104we are let's use our voice and not just roll over and say that's the law let's change the law that is what democracy is meant to be yeah I think and I think that's actually um and this is just J gr I think actually that is what Anna is is saying and um it may not be I don't feel um we feel that we are listening to the residents we're trying to hear you what you have to say I'm I'm a wondering if you're um if if you're hearing what an what um Anna was saying and in and what the board is saying that um that we're actually are are could be interested in in these uh bylaw changes in further steps in a better understanding but it's looking at it in a um the

105issue at hand is not that issue no I understand that please please I didn't interrupt you right um I'm ask I'm I'm trying to get to a point that what we have in in front us today is extremely limited and the The Proposal the the questions you're act you're act uh asking and the possible paths are are are Broad and ones that we can look further into but um those two are they're related obviously but they may be two very different things um um tell Council um obviously is not Lisa me is very well not an expert in telecommunications but she is an expert in Municipal law and that is what we are we're we're part of the municipal system and so she so she's advising Ashland her job is to advise Ashland in areas

106of M Municipal law so um so that is the situation we are in and I not to kind continue to argue with the public but I I'll also add that there's two planning board members myself and an associate member who are attorneys and you know I I don't throw that around because frankly usually that's not a good thing um but I can tell you I'm trained to read regulations and laws and this issue is very important to me outside of this particular hearing and I have friends who've been impacted by Wireless technology who've been involved in some of the issues that you discuss so I am personally very familiar with your concerns and I am very familiar with the Telecom issues and I could not find enough legal basis for me to comfortably rule against

107this application and so this idea that we need to speak to a telecom Council who may have a different view I I appreciate that opinion but I think his expertise lies in B laws not in somehow overruling federal law and so with all due respect I I think that we are very much hearing you and we may even be personally in agreement with you and we may even support or the bylaw that you might propose if it's narrow right because a moratorium is not going to fly but a narrow bylaw that deals with setbacks May in fact be workable for Ashland and I would personally support that if you brought that here right but for you to tell us that we need an expert to overrule federal law I respectfully disagree with that well I'm

108not saying to overrule federal law I'm asking that you check in with somebody who does this day in and day out and ask his opinion on what T-Mobile has proposed I don't think that is an outlandish request I think that you do not have expertise in Telecom law Lisa me does not have expertise in Telecom law the industry tells us what they want us to hear and we have not checked in with an expert in Telecom law that's what I'm asking for the 2002 special permit condition that they're asking for he's a nice guy give him a call I'm sure he is I will just say the when I went to law school one of the first thing you learn very quickly is that the right answer to any legal question is it depends right

109and so this idea that o there's this expert I can talk to I can tell you in Telecom law like any law there's going to be the right attorney will say whatever it is that you need them to say and a good lawyer will find a way to make an argument that you wish them to make and so just like there's experts at the firm who support our applicant there's going to be experts who are going to try to find a different way to interpret it what I'm telling you is my job as a planning board member is to review the arguments and to become comfortable with my position and what I'm telling you is I would not feel comfortable um denying this application based on the laws in front of me right now okay

110and I can respect that I don't and I don't need an expert to tell me otherwise because I've already thought it through um and you can find an expert on either side of this issue is including the science which is which is why this is so complicated and I get that but he will tell towns no you don't stand a chance bottom line if there's nothing legal that can be done he will tell you that but he knows the law better than almost anybody in this country and it's he doesn't just do Municipal zoning bylaws he goes through the courts and he wins cases if we can stop it often times before the antennas go so that sounds like something that you may want to bring up to the select board who would have the

111policy jurisdiction to discuss that with you it sounds like you're you're pushing the town to be willing to kind of handle it legally and that is not something that we as a planning board have jurisdiction over um but I appreciate your opinion I think you've had a very strong public comment um and unless there's other public comment I would say that it's time to to move forward thank you one more thank you yeah so um um Trisha Peter is there anyone else in line yeah Marky just stepped up to the microphone I Mark I will give you one more chance to speak and I will take no other speakers in line okay thank you okay that we talk talking about this applicant at this moment at this time what would happen if another ocate with

112the same agenda item comes before the board will any of this that came up tonight be included in the discussion don't me answer that Mark sometimes I feel like I forget things very easily as I'm getting older but I assure you that if the exact same issue came before for us this board is quite passionate about trying to be consistent and we we've been learning a lot as we go and I think you've been here to so many of our meetings where we are always aiming to be better learn from our experience and I'm sure we would we would discuss some of the similar issues and and probably learn as we go so learn as you go yes the two-way street the middle of the power up compromise talk it through from a big power

113up to a understanding that everybody's happy with this tonight everybody was in a um big PowerUp and there was a compromise but not a true understanding because the issues and laws and stuff like that got in the way and people wanted to be hurt either either way one way or the other and The Advocate wants to be heard one way or the other so we got a kind of down the road not kicking it down the road or anything like that but have the understanding that next time this something like this comes up all this that was tonight including any emails the Board of Health should get an assist in the in the uh preparing for when it comes up again thank you m thank you all right so um back to the board we

114have um so we we have uh two options I think in front of us we have um we have a draft document um which is a bit old now maybe I think U Peter has gone through it and change appropriate dates and document lists the document is otherwise fairly straightforward and simple we can go through that document tonight we can take a vote on this tonight or we can um potentially postpone this until the 11th um and um ask attorney me to come in come in person respond to any of our questions um can I get U as are people looking one way or another what to I think those those are our two options we continue we continue to our next meeting or we um or we go through the approval document um and

115and take a vote tonight I mean I'll just say I I reviewed the the proposed decision I I think that it may have been drafted prior to the passion of public comments and emails that we've received and it also does not reference Town Council opinion as far as I can tell um and so as long as it's amended to adequately recognize the extens of public com including Town Council opinion um I would be comfortable with this document and I can just add that since that since I've reprinted everything obviously I've added all the documents I came in from Halen Ward and we've kind of moved past that um and and that's where it kind of stands so obviously uh just to give some color to the draft Peter I have a question for you um

116this is not the first of these permits that that that we processed we processed one I think than a year ago or so yeah we processed four a year ago at 24 Albert Ray Drive yeah and wasn't there another one before that one yep it was at um actually this site at 369 uh excuse me Cedar Street and then we processed one again at 20 pondosa prior to that yeah so so what I was gonna say I remember I this um one minute Marcel we can you just repeat that we're having some technical issues in the room can you hear me yes um I was just going to um say and and I remember in one of those applications which was I think as narrow as this one uh there were opinions specifically from Lisa

117me that were included on that discussion in in that um in that decision if if if I'm not wrong um unless the the the the conditions change I don't think this board can change the the the direction of the decision uh but those decisions and I'm fine by the way if we if we want to postpone uh the vote if we can and and include um at least a come and speaker or whoever um but I think that that it unless it's going to I want to avoid that a Circ circular conversation because all all these elements have been discussed this not the first time it's the first time that the public has come which is great and and uh moving forward there probably a lot of work to do and and and the town

118and I agree by the way the select board uh probably needs to hear this because if the town as a whole wants to avoid this in the future it can very easily not renew new leases right uh but but if if if the language that we heard from from Lisa is already at hand we can just include it in this decision I think yeah so um I'm happy to to include the email that was dated from 2020 that was uh circulated to the board and I'm looking to I'm actually have the decision Marcelo so I'm not sure it was not in any decision regarding Albert Ray drive but I'm happy to add it if the board is requesting that in order to get new from Lisa if the board requests that as well I mean

119I would say Lisa's opinion is part of my consideration so I think we should I think we should include it okay so that it's obvious what we were relying upon as part of our decision okay you're talking about her document from 2020 correct okay because I think it was it was it it was included in our packets we referenced it several times tonight I think it's an important document well why don't we then review this document um and then see as we review it make any changes that people had or updates and then after our we we then we will see with a document in front of us if we are if we feel ready to take a vote this evening so does everyone have the document both at home and ones that were in

120the binders but people aren't there um and Peter do you have the um do you have the document up for poten no I do not I got to I got to do that I think it was emailed as well yeah Peter can I ask a question about uh paragraph six on page four that talks about um in accordance with 938 of the zoning Barla the special permit shall lapse after two years from granting what does that mean does that mean this is up for re reevaluation to years so that means that the that so so in that's typical G that's excuse me so that is um boil plate language that's typically in our decisions and so what that states is that so this is a modification of a special permit however when you grant a

121special permit typically you have two years to enact act on that special permit so number one a special permit is not valid till you number one record it at the registry of deeds and then number two you have to act on that special permit within 2 years of the issuance okay and actually that law has changed in the state and so that is now 3 years and so that's just a little bit of a bookkeeping item that I was on a webinar today and that kind of came up the process change that so we could say 30 years to tell you the truth um and that would mirror new changes to mhal law but that's just the process of a special permits within Massachusetts but TR Trisha were you suggesting that that we read I

122mean I have the document here that that we read that uh openly um one one once more um I I was suggesting that um we we had already received it to review but like meeting minutes I assume people have some potential changes or questions um so that we go through it kind of in the way that we do meeting minutes or or any approval document um oh okay I I was referring to the email from Lisa on Tuesday December 8th 2020 oh no I um we we can go through it um if anyone wants to or feels that it was unclear no it's just that that the the public has not probably seen it uh right and I think I think it it it it makes it backs up exactly Anna's explanation of of the

123situation for us that that's fair why don't um Peter can you bring up Lisa's letter oh sure and we can kind of uh it's not very long but we can we can kind of read through it or offer it to the public who doesn't have a view on it right now I also think that needs to get on the website with this application but maybe just in general as well but I can that it is on the website is that we do I don't I don't think so this was not been added this is uh yeah I'm I'm happy to do so and just um to add some color oh sorry cha I was just going to say uh you know just just to make it clear that I I think I know deep maybe

124maybe deep an I I was on the board during 2020 and I remember this document from before I can't remember exactly the context but when I reread it it was familiar to me and I would have been on the board at that time I can't remember member Deepa if you were also on the board at that time and if this seemed familiar to you um obviously at a similar um it must have been a similar application this was this is a similar application uh and and this was for 20 Pond rousa Road and this is a uh just add color to everybody on the meeting in in in the room uh 20 P Rosa Road is the home of our DPW and there's a land lease that crown castle has and so crown castle leases

125uh land um and has erected through permits a uh a tower a modern pole Tower and I believe there are four um telecom companies that have antennas on that Tower um and so back in 2020 one of the telecom companies and I forget which one was looking to take down old antennas uh and put up new antennas so very similar to the process that we're talking about here it was a ification to existing special permit TR I remember that meeting and I also remember C's presentation during that meeting so that that was at the same time yeah I couldn't quite recall the the order of events y um would it be helpful I mean we're kind of showing it up there would it be helpful if um I read part of the text um I

126think the third and fourth paragraphs are what's the meat of the the message so the one beginning while I am sure yeah so it says while I am sure it is confusing for the board to re reviewing this item under a special permit which provides discretion to the board typically typically they are doing so in light of the overlay of federal regulations on the local bylaw please know the Federal middle class tax relief and job creation Act of 2012 the ACT is very clear that while a local permitting agency May is very clear that while a local permitting agency may not deny and shall approve any eligible facilities request for a modification of an existing wireless tower or base station that does not substantially change the physical dimensions of such Tower or base stations the

127sole focus on a modification is on dimensions and no other extraneous potential consideration such as health in fact preceding the act the FCC was very clear that it prohibited local permitting agencies to deny permits for applications for cell towers based on the environmental and health effects this FCC order was upheld in the case of cellular phone Task Force versus Federal Communications a lot of numbers and 2000 factors or alleged factors such as the environment and health impacts are not to be considered as a basis to deny a permit of course with the act the factors are very clear for modifications the health and environment are not included in those factors and this is the position the print planning board is put into this is the law we must follow so this is a document then

128that we are going we can enter into the um the agreement or the approval document as part of the as part of the text on which our decision is based yes that was my suggestion that we include the reference to her letter I agree with Anna yeah same um we we I don't know that we have to do this but I did bring it before so there's there's a lease related to this and the reason I would bring it into here in case there's conflicts I don't remember all the leas language or maybe we have to be silent I but I just want to bring that up um and like in other words our decision is is out is not contingent upon but congru with the lease so I don't know if we need to

129be silent or if we should cite it but we should talk about that I think and then I mean there's particular things that I don't I don't want lost like for the town if um like the removal for painting antennas which I think might be in the lease but I don't remember and they the applicant offered if we wanted them painted I don't want to talk about paint colors here but like we should we should say that that could be a condition that they they shall if they work with the town so there's a little there's some conditions that have to be discussed our condition would be that they would follow the lease agreement and that they would work with the town but I'm not sure it talks about painting in the lease agreement so

130adding that they would cooperate with the town relative to painting is that a condition Peter that we could include is the applicant willing to include that condition yes well I I I I think I think the town um leaded this through an open public RFP that was W and awarded um I don't think we can um suggest that somebody can change those things without knowing I mean this is that's not our area of um I oh sorry go ahead may I um there is a reference to tank maintenance in the lease that does reference or require um the applicant to um work with the town in the event that the town would want to uh paint the tank in that case I don't think we need to mention it in the decision if it's in

131the lease or you just want to reinforce it I I don't know I don't I mean it seems like without that should be a nice little package together but I do not know legally I don't see an issue why we cannot just say that the applicant should work with the town and follow the lease agreement as as Pro as provided as written or whatever as written you know I don't see any issues with that and I think that could be a minor edit uh to the to the application to the decision does that satisfy your concerns yeah I think so and then there's just there's some pickier things if we're going back yeah go for it um it's actually almost January 2024 the date at the top oh jeez L yeah you getting into the

132nitty pit yeah well I'm just joking I we can't have it not correct so no no no I was just yeah I was going to say can we start at the top and uh I had that circled too that the date was wrong I think that's also for when hearing closes um also on page one yeah go slow Peter so we can go through it um Amanda are you seeing your correction on that screen where where you need it see it it's no it's paragraph three so it would be December the the sentence above though it also continued to December 14th so the very first sentence of that paragraph you're in yeah I think in the and then just before you go further I think in the very first paragraph it's just a very minor

133correction yep jeez what is going on you were having some issues there Peter okay okay if you go up to that very first paragraph it can't see the whole thing um one two three four re see where Adam's um name is underlined um two lines down from that is the word removal and it has a comma after it you should take out that comma because it it reads kind of strange so to modify the existing special permit for the removal and replacement of antennas unless that's meaning something that I don't understand no okay that's it all right so move slowly down if anyone has any other Corrections um the second paragraph 300 ft has both ft and feet indicated in the second oh yeah second paragraph the last okay here under documents of record under

134the second bullet point it kind of just ends in an application for special permit modification in the alternative was there something after that or was just supposed to have a period I didn't understand that which bullet is that Trisha the second bullet point down it's right where the cursor is it says and an application for special permit modification in the alternative is that the end should it there be a period there or was there more text I'm not sure what in the alternative means I would have to go back and look at the the the original application but okay I think that I think that language comes from the um cover page which says eligible facilities request pursuant to section 649 of the spectrum act and an application for special permit modification in the alternative

135so there should be a period there is the comma should the comma be taken out or just it's fine the way it is there I think that's exactly how we had it in the letter so I if I if I took it from the letter I took it from the letter that that's fine it just it I wasn't sure what uh the meaning was unclear to me it looked like maybe something was missing thank you for the correction um so are those I see those revision dates um on the drawings have been updated since the copy I have is that the current revision date or was that updated again today those were updated today with the with the plans that were approved by Greg Aldridge so those should be 124s no they're still 12 12

136the site plan the site plan is dated 1212 but all that list of rever revision dates the 122 is correct on the current drawings is that would correct okay does anyone have uh any other changes then you see the peer review letter dated today's date um and signed by Greg Aldridge I see that that's on there the very last letter you have that Lisa and where was um was Lisa's letter already added in or is this the place no um I'm going to add it in right now okay I'm just borrowing it from uh for and did we want to add in um various emails [Music] from various emails from residents received on and prior to December 14th that's a question for the board and I believe someone had mentioned it before but I think

137it's good to include them in that category so it's clear that we review them and we consider them is there uh emails I think that first email just needed to be various okay or it could be it could I just wanted to look I wanted to make sure there's more than one I just make it plural that's fine is that okay or does may maybe it's emails received by residents emails received by the planning board from residents regarding the application how about Resident emails received by the planning board just it's fine but it just simpler okay is that okay yes thank you um so on this one uh point four prior to the issuance nope right where you are point four MH prior to the issuance that also ends town of Ashen with emergency contact

138information for Sight supervisor or for the site emergency contact information for for who contractors um I think that's a kind of a typical for the site is the intent seems to me so if something happens at the side that that might be true I just nobody can be contacted yeah I mean if that's the intent I was just going to open one I think that's a um having trouble opening things here I think that's a kind of a typical um condition um so I was just going to see how it read on something else can go on without me while I try to find something item six you can say after three years you said that was the new law yes um in in the decision it refers to like what I think it's last

139sentence plans dated September 27 20 oh that has to be updated down here and the revision date like so I don't quite get what that all is yeah nope I have to I have to uh make sure they match so tell me when you're done with that Peter I'm all done don't don't want to interrupt your thought process so on that number four that I was I did look up the [Music] um Mena special permit and so the last word on that is emergency contact information for Sight supervision just to be consistent with yeah it doesn't need to be capitalized but so so emergency contact information for site supervision is what we have on our other documents that's a signature block and the letter from Haley Ward that was already added in is that right

140that was added in today correct okay you you took off the highlighted part that you sent out earlier and added in though Yep this is the peer review it's highlighted right here in Gray okay MH then at the very end of the document in the decision I think that's the okay all right yep so that was the last the revision date that wanted to make sure was on there okay all right anything else that anyone can see all right is there any further discussion someone want to offer a motion I'll make a motion to approve the application I just don't have it in in my screen uh what is the name of it sorry 400 Cedar Street special permit modification 400 C Street special uh permit modification for the um T-Mobile antenna is there a

141second second and any further discussion all right then a roll call vote an tki i Marcel I Katherine Jers I and Trisha Kendall I do we need to vote specifically for the decision Peter or is this sufficient what we just did this is sufficient I think we voted for it um oh yeah that's what I thought I thought we were actually voting good for the okay yep I'm sorry I just do want to makeone okay with that that we were actually voting for The yes no that's fine it just we read it as the um not the title we didn't read the title of the decision we we read the title of the application the application okay so are we supposed to read the title of the decision itself um we can okay yeah I

142mean do we have I don't know if we have to no I think we I think the vote was formalized then I think we're good uh the one thing I do want to say is that this is a situation where yes it's a we we gain the votes however typically everybody signs the decision and so I don't know if you know if if one person want if we want to make a motion to allow one person in this case I would ask the clerk to sign the the the the decision Andor if the applicant would be okay if I could file the decision by next Wednesday with the town clerk which then would allow all members of the planning board to sign it just so procedurally the hearing is procedurally the hearing is closed okay

143and they voted to approve the application now typically every member of the plany board signs his decision right now since I have three members on zoom two members that voted right I can't have everybody sign it here tonight got it so therefore or if you would allow me time right because we extend it till tomorrow I I say sure yes we can would you concur that would allow me to to file the the decision by end of day next Thursday which would be the 17th 17th because you're trying to get everyone's signature correct I think that's the right decision if we can do that I I think in light of the public comment we should take the responsibility and all sign it okay that's yep thank you for okay one other question do we need

144to formally close the public hearing or does our vote automatically we can formally close the public hearing at this point I'm sorry we can formally close the public hearing with a motion okay I will make a motion that we form that we close the public hearing for 400 Cedar Street special permit modification is there a second I'll second that and a roll call vote Depot an a tus minitz I I Katherine Jersey I I am Trisha Kendall I okay so so Peter you will need us to come in to sign anytime between now and Tuesday right correct yep okay MH and yes and all right um okay okay thank you to the applicants and also to all the residents who um who came to participate we do we do appreciate we do want to hear

145your voices next on the agenda is 949 Homer Avenue this um this project has um as as you know um requested a continuance I believe Peter you can correct me if I'm wrong they just needed more time bus okay correct excuse me so um working with the applicant on 9 to 49 Homer Street um uh there was obviously a long conversation at our our last meeting regarding the the pallet so the color the warmer and the cool um and so therefore in working with the applicant is my here nothing uh they have requested more time to put together the color samples uh as we requested then also to continue to to check off some of the outstanding items so on December 13th we did receive an uh email excuse me from uh Attorney Terry Morris

146that was filed with the Town Clerk and therefore he's requesting to ex to move the to extend the public hearing to January 11th which is going to be our first public meeting in the new year and furthermore he is looking to extend the date that we have to file a decision to March 1st 1 2024 um I have a question are we are we allowed to discuss this at all or is it simply we have to uh approve the continuance so we can discuss would you like to discuss matters surrounding the continuance or the application um General the application but it's really planning board business about the application but I I don't know if we're allowed to discuss that so we're not why don't you put it out there Kate and then Peter we can

147understand what it is and see I I guess I believe we had a list of things going to the um applicant of sort of open items some of them were somewhat under our control so I kind of wanted to see where that stands because we we just keep like waiting not waiting we get everybody confused um and then also I'd sent to I think Trisha maybe copy Peter about I don't know I think attacked by a fly I think early on they I'm starting to be concerned I feel I'm so sorry uh the sustainability checklist I think did go to the applicant but I think I asked that be added to the memo of what's open and then I just wanted to try to deal with maybe the things that are a little bit in

148our court to to make sure we're doing everything we can that they're not um open still so regarding that checklist I did receive your email oh did you get it wow um for sure yeah so regarding the email I did get your email I did add that and and I'm working to continue to update that checklist um so there like things that um we we talked a couple times about getting Town Council opinion on things and I I I really hope that we don't show up at another meeting and like waiting for that again those are the kind of things I'd like to kind of get a status check in or find out if there's anything we can do I think there's a few open things with maybe some of the Town reviews um can

149we tighten up all that stuff I I imagine things are going to go a little slower over over these next few weeks but Peter and I did talk shortly after our last meeting about updating that list and also adding the planning board items that were a part of the design Review Committee list that you had mentioned adding the sustainability list and trying to go through and say what was kind of resolved what was you know that we actually had something in writing that it was resolved so Peter and I did kind of go through those things um I'm not sure that it was if if it was completed or added to the binders after knowing that this was going to continue um but but we have been talking about that so just so you know

150um and and I guess in addition to to my concern about some of those just everybody's busy a little bit fall off our plate that um I think I the applicant has a right to say I'm still working with gcg but we know there's some open things and I feel like we could end up in the same thing like oh it's I was supposed to get a traffic study but I didn't and that review so it I mean do we have any responsibility to say we there isn't a traffic study that exists and if you come in January without a traffic study I fear you will not be on the path to March 1st I mean that's those kind of things I I feel like we have to kind of Step Up where this really

151stands if we want to help um kind of not have this just waiting all the time I I think that's fair and I think that's I think we I I think we expressed that at a few of the um at a few of the recent meetings where we're showing our frustration over not not over the project but over the process and the delays but Peter if that list can be buttoned up you know and sent to the board and sent to the applicant saying you know these are things that must be completed for the project to move forward would that be appropriate to yeah I think that was I think that can be appropriate and arranged you know um to to get that list together and and and to go get it over to the

152applicant and I know yes I have to go back and take a look at it and and work on it so and I'm happy to take a look at it too because we were talking about it together to make sure it was updated yeah idea that can happen Kate are you good on that now yeah I just the the stuff that is in our court too though I didn't specifically hear answers about that but I I get it that it's being worked on but I really um I would be frustrated if we kind of keep hearing the same I haven't gotten it yet um I guess I'll just be honest the one about um Town Council opinion about the grinder problem because that was brought up twice and we still haven't seen it so because

153that may be more investigation when we get an answer right so those are the kind of things I would like to see okay I can put that on my list my my obviously now that that's on my radar I'll make sure that first and foremost and I can send out to email tomorrow yeah I think it's definitely important if you have priorities put them out there so we know what your priorities are um because it might be tough to check tackle the whole list at once so okay anyone else priorities on that list or anything you want to add okay all right then um is this is this January 11th we continuing this to Peter uh yes January 11th and then the decision due date will be moved to March 1st okay I will make

154a motion that 9049 Homer Avenue site plan and special permit application is continued to January 11th with the decision date pushed out to March 1st I'll second it and a roll call an tuski i Mar I Katherine a guy and Trisha Kendall ey so that is continued next on our agenda is a continued discussion with the sustainability committee regarding the development of the new tree bylaw I don't see anyone online here for that Peter there anyone in the room yes uh Margie grusel and Chuck litz are in the room oh so I did not see them in the room I can only see the heads that are in front so they've been patiently listening to all of our proceedings so far okay so um all right so I I think this is kind of a

155an update about where things are is there yeah so I think it's an update from where where we are um excuse me um so I haven't produced and put together any updated information and and I don't know if Margie has has put together any updated information uh but Margie would you like to speak and uh to move the conversation to introduce myself please introduce yourself with your name and address for the record marchie gasel um a Adams Road um I I I didn't put together any updates but to summarize where we are I sent you um my comments relating to your last meeting and um I would like to ask that looking forward that we plan to discuss remaining issues that you would like to discuss at the remaining four meetings in January and February

156so that we um can have the public Hearing in March so you're asking for like a plan of how we're going to use the remaining four meetings I think it would be good to determine that and um I based on the last discussion there are a couple things in my mind that I think I assume you would want further discussion about um that was a couple new ideas one being the clearcut idea and how we would how we would Define it and how we would incorporate it and um then there was the suggestion I I'm not sure if the the clearcut would address the other suggestion about concerns about potential tear Downs in the future maybe that maybe that's not an issue that we need to discuss but it seemed like it was kind of

157hanging so Trish I know you're virtual so if I'm kind of overstepping the bounds of my RO as Vice chair but my concern is that it's almost 10 p.m. and I don't know like I want to honor the fact that you're here and I would very much to pick some topic that we can focus on today it sounds like you're suggesting to prioritize like planning like how are we actually going to make it through four meetings um so one way to do it like I'm looking at your memo to us that you sent to us November 30th and it looks like numerically there are eight items I think it says seven but it's eight I think you kind of skipped a number once so there's eight specific items that you wanted us to think about

158do you want to pick one of those to kind of focus on today and then plan out when we're going to handle the rest um what topic do you feel like we can make progress on I didn't bring the memo with me I figured that you might have comments about it in response to my response so I I mean I'm going to just speak in support of a a detailed plan to get us there because I the board actually received a email I think it was today about someone that seemed surprised that we're talking about it and and I glad that they were able to find out we do not want people to be surprised and that was part of our original thought if it's consistently showing up on our planning board agendas we we

159want people we want to hear from people so for that reason alone I support having it continuously on our agenda not not if we don't need to but but I believe there are open issues and um we I think we saw tonight in from that email that the the board has probably some responsibility to try to keep making sure things aren't out of the public eye so that would help with that okay and what I'm saying is that I would like to know what you consider to be issues that are important to you that we discuss and perhaps you're not prepared to do that right now um I'm wondering if I guess Trish is there do you have a um were you thinking of meeting with the um person that sent in the email and

160would that be helpful feedback to bring as well or what was your thoughts on that well um and first I think with Margie's comments I I think which I have in front of me um I I think it's just that and and I think next time we talk about this we actually should be talking about line by line of the bylaw and what the bylaw says and Crossing out sections and saying oh let's change this percentage and and let's look at it in the document I think all of our next meetings have to be looking at it in the actual bylaw document or or we won't get there with our gen our discussions will be too General so it's either in the document and we talk about it or it's not in the document and

161we say hey it has let's put it in the document right now and the by the document I mean the bylaw you know so so um so I think that's where our discussions should go so next time I think it's about discussing the bylaw and no other document right I mean we can bring supporting stuff but we want to focus on the bylaw and I know Peter has been been you know working on that and you know getting into shape and it may still be rough but that's how we're going to kind of get that document in the right place and not go off onto tangents which like we said before some things may have to wait in regard to that email um so um just to be completely transparent um I believe John Dudley

162um who's a business owner in town he actually owns the building from which I rent space so he is my business landlord and um he had reached out to Peter regarding the tree BW then he reached out to me I think we spoke I believe it was just yesterday um I encouraged him to as his email said he had concerns um from the um landowner developer point of view like what this might mean for development in Ashland um I told him that the planning board is looking to hear diverse points of view that we always need to consider all aspects of a problem and so I encouraged him not just to talk to me because I obviously do not represent the board um but to send a letter to the board as a whole so

163this was addressed to me but obviously went to the whole to the whole planning board I also encouraged him to be able to come to a future meeting with anyone else who may have similar views in order that we can understand those views and help um take take that into consideration as we potentially um figure out the the real detailed parts of the bylaw so that's that's where this that's where um and so I wasn't surprised to receive this letter today after talking to him yesterday so so I was before you spoke Trish I was going to say I was going to ask whether if I were to provide you with an updated draft that would facilitate your decisions about what what points you want to address and it sounds like yes that would be

164the case yeah I think that's where yeah kind of need to be I my plan is to take the draft that I finished today and share it with the sustainability committee and get their comments at our meeting on Tuesday after which point I can share with you I think that makes a lot of sense my my other s my one suggestion for the board is I think there's a massive benefit to having a public discussion obviously about the draft when we have it ready on the other hand I think the work to fix the draft is work that cannot be done at 10:00 at night it's it's work that requires true kind of collaboration and might take a few hours to get done right and so I was going to suggest a retreat with the

165sustainability folks um to really focus on a working session to air out the draft the retreat would obviously be open to the public if people want to show up but it wouldn't be a public hearing and then out of that taking a draft to a public discussion so that controversial items that maybe where gray areas in the working session can then be aired out more publicly like hey all right so we kind of have these sections of it that maybe we didn't all love or that we argued about that we can air out more publicly so I'm just suggesting because I feel like my brain this topic tends to be later on in our agenda and I feel like my brain is no longer at its full battery and therefore I always worried that we

166could do so much if we had like a retreat Focus two hours to work through this and get to a draft and be done with a draft just throwing that out there I think that's a great idea after you guys take your first tab at a draft I think you need to write it give it to us and then maybe the planning board should have a retreat that you're invited to hear our debate and rewriting that's kind of what I'm proposing but um one question Anna uh first of all you not fooling anyone your brain is at full power now I can hear you so what what would all I heard was my brain is at full power what what would be wrong with doing it on an open meeting but putting it first in

167the agenda because I agree with you we have to devote proper time oh I'm I'm all for doing it out in the open I just think it should be earlier on like what I'm saying is if we keep if we can if we only have time for it at the end of an agenda then I think we need to retreat I totally I totally agree I I I am in favor of putting if we can uh in the front of the agenda that would be my suggestion but I I do believe that we need to hear all the voices from everyone just like Trisha mentioned and uh and and and I've been an advocate to make sure that this goes through the public so that is successful um so I I would just propose if

168if we have room in the agenda to put it like first in line as soon as we can and and go over let's get that draft for sure because we need to see it and then we probably will be prepared to attack it head on early if it's possible can um Chuck Lids 150 Oregon Road um I wonder if we could have a very a small group of perhaps one member of the planning board marging myself Peter uh Samantha no um and and just try to work out an agreed thing that the that the sustainability committee could then approve and then we can have um either in a separate meeting largely for you or however but it seems to me that you need a draft that you can assume that we're in sustainability is in

169agreement with um because then you know you can say okay no we don't like this or no we haven't listened to this group but until you have that sort of thing it seems to me it's going to be very hard to make a a definitive decision yeah I mean by the way I completely agree with this has to be public you know this is going to have to go before town meeting that we can't do this in secret thank you I wonder if you've kind of come to that point not a stopping point but maybe a point where it's really great to have the public comments for us to move to the next step um I think the draft that was shared last time was at a good place there's a lot of work that

170the team has already done and I wonder even though that's not the final draft or final version that's going but you're kind of that midpoint before now and the four meetings that you have wonder if we should really focus on Public public comments it's like a focus session on public comments only and then we take that and then we can have a mini group like you suggested and then go back and refine it and the three meetings that we have left in the early year we are literally refining it we have the comments we working on it and then you can refine it to the end I think the hard thing I mean I'm always open to public comment the the the if opening it to public comment without a draft feels very feels a

171little bit backwards to me because I feel like the public deserves to comment on the draft the public the the idea of like just public comment whether a tree law bylaw is good or bad I'm not sure that's as helpful as here's what we have in mind what do you think I think the last time what they shared was it a good place to have cover a lot of that there's lot of those small minor Corrections that maybe that can come as a draft but I think that was good amount of info that document that they shared last time for people to discuss and if there's something that's absolutely not making sense in those few pages maybe that's what we tackle and probably attack um I mean there were sections like incentives that were blank

172and there were sections that had text that was not filled in I would really prefer that you use the draft that I completed Marcel are you jum looking to jump in uh you know I was just going to say I I I agree with Deepa to to me I I feel that not the getting getting way far down the line without proper public input maybe just counterproductive I I there's a train and I'm having trouble hearing you without the train that that must be just my accent no for some reason the volume is low can you is very low for whatever reason is is it just Marcel that's yes okay well I think okay can you guys can you guys hear me yes yes oh okay h no I I was just saying I I

173I kind of agree with Deepa that the the public input before we get down the line too far and and and and and not include whatever we're hear it's could be counterproductive I heard Margie saying that there's a drift that was Advanced up to today um what what if that is enough like Deepa was saying a good draft that that included finalize all the the blanks that that we had before and maybe we start getting feedback from from people in the community because we have not had anything at this point and that that concerns me a little bit so I would propose and it's kind of a combination of these things that um that there is kind of a small group um that meets soon before the next planning board meeting on the 11th doesn't

174have to be a complete Retreat I think that'd be hard to get together um but a small group of sustainability um sustainability advisor Peter someone from the planning board um could be two people from the planning board um if we can get two people to to volunteer um to go to go over to have a first set of eyes on that final draft make sure it reads make sure we understand your writing we're you know kind of listen looking at the FI you know the recent draft and then kind of clarify that we bring it to the planning board on the 11th early um and and then maybe it's it's ready for the public the next week maybe there's a a public forum mid January you know on this with a document that the planning

175board fully understands you know that the sustainability committee fully understands and has and and can support um you know and then we can have that that conversation with the with the public things can still be changing but there's something down on paper that we can cross out this number and put another number or um so something kind of definitive does that uh kind of mix things there and get us to January 11th with with a document that we're looking at hopefully for the final time before a public forum sounds good to me okay absolutely okay so Peter we would be looking for a date I think the week after our January 11th meeting for some kind of public forum right on on the the sustainability committee had planned to do also does the sustainability committee

176have a meeting that night uh the week of this 15th in January I have to look at my calendar and guess if we're going to be meeting that night we have not as consistent meetings we don't meet the particular week of the month we meet every other week except when we don't when it doesn't get posted and that is in part of Vice chair's problem because the vice chair namely me doesn't have authority to post it so I have to send it to the chair who sometimes post and sometimes doesn't but just to clarify why do you want to know if we're meeting right after your meeting because if you're having a public forum I would say you could have that the sustainability committee could host a public forum yeah we can do that yeah

177we can do it together if you want but yeah it was our plan after the holidays to start the public forums I not but not every week night I'm available to come to a night meeting please respect my schedule sure absolutely so it's kind of one of those I I would think that well this is just me but I would think having it be a planning board meeting uh will get more attention because the Community does perceive you as having power where they perceive us as being a source of pressure group so policy so I for one like the idea if if we can find a way to put this on top of our agenda planning board agenda um it is a make it a public hearing and perhaps uh put it up on the

178town website as you know the planning board is having a meeting and there happens to be a public component relating to this the um tree bylaw early on in the meeting um I would highly recommend that approach and I would like to have the draft be available at that public meeting so that as we're listening to the public we can reflect upon the draft take notes see and that document is available to the public so even if the public is just coming in to talk about the general concept they can look at the draft and say oo I don't like this section I think that will be a very useful exercise for the public so right now on January 11th if we're putting this on our meeting trishy cut out this is where when you

179Char just kidding excuse me Trisha you cut out we're having we're having issues in town hall yeah just kidding yes no we're back we back okay so as Peter disappeared again I have no idea if you can hear me can you hear me I can hear you we can hear can hear you okay so we just in this meeting put two things two public hearings on our January 11th agenda is that when we were looking to also have a public forum for the tree bylaw well one of those tends to not show up one of those tends to not show up um but I think that's important do you not want to discuss your input before we have the public forum it sounds like in light of the fact that we're starting to receive public

180comment and I'm starting to agree with deepa's point that there could be benefits to attracting the public early on in the process it doesn't mean that's going to be their only opportunity but it sounds to me like to the extent there's some public and Trust coming we should invite those folks who've reached out to come to that meeting and we should ask sustainability to bring a draft that can be publicized and put on our website yada y yada so that the public input can be kind of more official and we can have your draft for it and I'd like to see the Public's reaction to a draft so that when we're thinking and talking about a draft we have context for what does the public care about what what bothers them what excites them that

181would be my curiosity I hate hate to volunteer but I wonder Trisha if we start a bit early on 11th kind of give this enough time and Justice to this important topic and then we continue with the other commitments that we do have on 11th already slated so I hate to say that but I know um it's better than spending 2 hour of a separate Retreat I could do 6:30 I think it's maybe EAS if we start early sure I a dedicated time I could do 6:30 that night and and this would be for the public forum component yep we could do that it doesn't have to be a part of our official a public forum doesn't have to be all of us don't have to be present for a public forum if someone can't

182make that our our meeting can can start right after the public forum right like we don't all have to be at a public forum I I would suggest we do a public forum at 6:30 we have our meeting at 7:15 and the first agenda item on our meeting could be this topic and so the public can show up talk about the draft and then when we open up the record for our planning board meeting we can discuss the public comment received at the public for as we look at the draft together and discuss it that way it's a very focused 45 minute session for the public and the the planning board can have a normal discussion with the sustainability Folks at our normal meeting so that would so that would total maybe an hour and

183a half 6:30 to 7:15 7:15 to 8:00 so it' have about an hour and a half for both components together of the public forum with that seem seems reasonable and then that seems reasonable would satisfy deepa's point in mind that we need some focused earlier earlier in the day use of our brains yes is a point of information there is a further draft than what was um seen last time so we're we're not there yet obviously but we are a little further along I think I think I think we can still have the preliminary meeting of you guys two people from the planning board I'm happy to do it if someone else can't Peter to still review with the with the sustainability committee or you know a part of you still review that document prior

184to the 11th in a small group I think that might still be a good idea so as you've already said you have another draft that no one has eyes on for us so okay yeah I'm H I'm I'm back in town on the second so I'm happy to meet the week of the second well the second third fourth or fifth okay um so just to confirm I said that after the sustainability committee refuse the draft next week I will send you a copy okay okay and then we will have a small group meeting the first week of January or sometime before the 11th and then we'll have this public forum on the 11th intertwined with our meeting does that sound okay yes and if C if members of the planning board can't make it before

1857:15 then you can't make it before 17 7:15 okay is public forum hosted by the sustainability or the planning board you know what we'll post is the planning board meeting but I'm it's going to break out the time is conversation public conversation on tree you know proposed tree bylaw and then I think we can use social media and our town website to kind of promote it and then we will list specific times for that conversation and then we'll have our public hearing starting at 8 o' we could also post it on our social media yeah I think it's kind of posted as a joint meeting almost to make sure okay yeah because both boards will need to um both boards will need to have it posted so okay I have another question everyone agreed to

186that plan yes yes yeah all right okay separate question um it had been my intent to meet with developers but I only encountered one along the way but now I would like to speak with John Dudley if that's okay can you HCK me up oh sure sure oh introduce you yes yeah of course great okay are we done just send me a separate email and okay thank you oh Rob has a Rob we have a comment from the audience Mr Rob share excuse me Rob can you please state your name and address sure Rob share 41 Bay Colony Drive um yeah I've been feeling like a lurker here so I thought I'd check in so say hi to everybody but also uh really um thank you guys been through a tough meeting um that electromagnetic

187that cell tower stuff I will follow up a bit with Town Council doesn't seem like a very easy issue but a lot of good thoughts the other thing is um you know thanks both you guys and sustainability for moving ahead in this tree bylaw I hadn't realized that the planning board was so uh strongly involved so good for you guys for taking this on and uh working with sustainability so uh just one note in January we are pushing the Valentine forum for the 29th but it sounds like you're earlier than that so that sounds good um and I guess um you know just keep the select board in mind we're going to be very interested in this as well but that can happen later so um I think you guys have set out a very

188ambitious schedule and um you know good for you I hope you can stick to it and get that out there uh but um you know I'm willing to you know happy to help in whatever way I can I can't speak for the board as a whole of course but um there is a lot of interest and you know as we prepare for uh the Springtown meeting and we'll have our own you know town manager form and all that stuff later on so as we get closer there'll be more public input as well so anyway sorry go ahead Rob I didn't mean to interrupt you oh no I was just wrapping up so I want you guys late enough as it is please I was going to suggest I think it would be important once there's

189a draft and we scheduled the public forum to invite the select board and share the draft with them so that if the select board wishes to lur and participate and offer public comment at a public forum they can also do that um L do you guys see this says continue to be a joint kind of project or is at some point a sustainability going to go on by themselves with this how's that going to how are you seeing this well I think it's as it's a zoning bylaw it needs to go through the planning board so okay so you guys are going to stay with it we're inherently in the process yeah okay I mean that My Hope Is that this is a collaborative process that we can work together on and ultimately have support

190for the product I would like to at some point get support from the select board as well so that ultimately we can present it to town meeting as a very successful joint effort I would think we would anticipate a select board to get some kind of formal meeting at some point or or at least part of the the warrant review to review this whether it needs to be how in depth but usually we expect I would think one or two representatives to come before us and review it at some point so all right thank you all right thanks everybody thanks Rob all right next in our agenda oh yeah no we we actually we did continue Homer okay sustainability committee sorry I'm off next is the re-release of unit 19 seven belter Circle within Leah

191States um uh Peter can you give us the like little brief thing about sure what we're doing here so that everyone understands sure so I was contacted by the an attorney a title attorney that is doing was doing obviously doing his due diligence on this property this property is for sale to my knowledge and there's a purchase and sale agreement upon due diligence they found that the lot was never um it was formly released however it was never recorded at the registry of deeds uh so therefore the attorney um is asking the board for a re-release of the lot and So within our documents here tonight um you can see that um behind the agenda in the meeting this lot excuse me not lot but unit number 19 known as 7 belra Circle was released

192by the planning board on February 19th of 2003 along with unit 18 which is known as five vure Circle uh this lot unit release within the subdivision known as leer Estates um and this Le Estates is a 55 and over condo Community um right off of Olive Street past the community center on the left hand side uh the Covenant is dated uh the Covenant he here is is is within the application so this Covenant was for the was was was put in with the subdivision so therefore with the release however with the failure to record this the title attorney is asking for re a re-release that I have put together um here and so the title attorney is asking us to re re-release the lot so they can then record it at the registry of

193deeds looking at all document I see no issues why the planning board should not sign this as an administrative matter so there's um do we have any way of knowing there's no open issues like we had with let's just say whittimore there's no open issues with leer Estates Leah Estates is a private road uh and it's a 55 and old condo development so therefore there's no liability on the town regarding the roadway roadway construction or any items in that and the bond is closed cleared up there's nothing open with town for the past decade and you scrubbed everything want to do wi again no no no no and Leo States has been it's a fair it's a very mature project that was that was permanent back in 2001 um and there's been no I'm actually

194pretty familiar with it I used to live across the street from from that estate that's where I used to take the kids trick-or-treating when I lived over there yeah so yeah it's a very wellestablished Community it's fully developed it was it was finished long before we you know moved in there so um so they they can't take that approved decision and just record that I'm just curious because I I so typically at the registry they like to have something that that's within the 6 months of record of typically within 6 months so I asked the applicant well what do you want to do here you know I do have the release from 03 uh do you want to do a true test copy with the town clerk Andor would you like to apply you know

195take this to the planning board for a re-release and they said that they would they preferred to come here for a fresh signature uh from the planning board and then take that to the registry of deeds and so that's what I have I've done I've done this in numerous numerous times this board has done it numerous times um there was actually a case that I found for Le Estates and and what happens is the lot the lot is released right it never gets recorded at the registry of deeds and so therefore decades down the line when somebody does a title search they find that there's this Gap right and so therefore that this re-release just closes that Gap with with within a title search so shouldn't this um re-release refer to that 2003 planning board

196release because like that's I didn't dig into this and I'm going to trust Peter as a professional planner and the planning board then because I see it documented but without that reference I don't I don't feel comfortable like signing it so like Can it can we put the reference to the previous release in the one you're asking us to sign tonight I'm happy too I I don't see an issue with adding that but I can tell you that the the biggest item that the reference is is to the Covenant and that's the legal document that they're looking for a release from and so I'm happy to add a note as a it's a re-release um so I've never I've never had to do that but I'm I don't see an issue and I well I

197just going to be honest based on whittimore I would be comfortable with adding that but if you're asking me to release a covenant without seeing documentation that that's like I would ask for a letter from Town Council that the covenant's released if we don't reference that other decision for me but I don't I mean there's plenty of people that can sign it without me I can abstain as well so I think that's fine Peter can you just can you just add that in and and um I'm refer to the earlier document and and since it wasn't recorded where you know what is is that something you can put into a document like this or is it screw up the whole legal part of the document I don't think so it kind of gives it the

198history it kind of says why we're doing this in 2023 I may lean on our two attorneys to help me write this but Peter I'm curious like all the dates that you have on this paper other than the April 9th that I see on the C where do this July 25th 2001 date here all come again so this July 27 2001 versus July 25th so those are those are dates of the site plan that were permitted okay and so and I can bring up I have a I have I have record of the the full recorded site subdivision site plan so should we attach all that to this document well typically you wouldn't attach it to a re-release but if you would like to see it just for the sake of the conversation I can

199bring it up so k What are what language are you proposing I'm simply I think the re-release which it says right but the re-release is contingent upon the 2192 well it's dated 2003 release of of the planning board I I'm basing my evidence why I should sign this on that decision back then yeah and did Peter send that did he send that around I mean yes yes yeah okay yeah so it's just referring to that document which does refer it's releasing it's fully signed by the Ashen planning board in 20 2003 it talks about unit it says unit 18 it says unit 19 five belra Circle and seven belri Circle so it does it it kind of says that we're just cleaning up someone else's air right this is exactly what we're doing we're just

200cleaning up someone else's era so if we can just refer to the earlier document because it is part of the paper trail then um chall to the lawyer this I going to say this release is made upon the understanding uh understand ing in 200 three was it three that you guys said 2003 on3 can I say by the then do you want to read that sentence to us can I say thus release is made with the understanding on February 19th 2003 said unit was released by The then asham planning board you just need a DN release yeah released it reads a little bit awkward I'm trying to figure out how to make it read better okay um this re-release rather than this yeah this re-release is made with the understanding with the understanding that on

201February 13th with the understanding that on February 19th that yeah the said unit yep was released by The then Ashen planning board exactly perfect does that is that suitable yes do and in this case do we have to attach it because it was never filed like I can I think we should because that that's a paper trail it'll disappear if it's not part of what we're signing tonight I I agree looks like we sat here and made it up which we did except we have pie no yeah no I agree I found this in the building office I I found this in the building office file for that particular unit you know so it's let's attach it okay uh released by The then Ashland planning board and attached here too that's here too Architects don't

202say here to it's just here to like I said it referenced reference there in is one word is it one word yeah one word getting Le I'm sorry what here2 yeah is a lot of things but he doesn't say that oh my sound good to everybody should I make a motion I hear to make a motion I make a motion that the planning board vote to re-release of Covenant definitive subdivision plan Hillside Estates Ashlin Mass I'll second it Anna tki I Catherine Jersey I and Trisha Kendall I so okay got that done unless we have reports on any topics um we can skip down to the meeting minutes I think right can I just um a number eight I have a item eight comprehensive plan so I just want to say to the board I

203think I was remiss last meeting when it was late like it is now and I I didn't um I didn't bring up that I I have I I guess it's I don't want to speak for him but similar concerns did we lose our of um the decision-making process of of the comprehensive plan without planning board input and as a representative I mean I we are supposed to bring those things back to you and we went through that with a sort of revote of the doc but my understanding of that document was to be the collaborative um with those three groups so I have not seen a change yet I do have concerns and I would um say I have the very same concerns if I can continue because I don't right now feel like I'm

204representing the board so there's there's a meeting coming up next week I I hope that we'll um see some dramatic changes but I I definitely share that concern I want to report that to the board you mean a meeting of the steering committee yeah have you reported that concern to the steering committee to the two co-chairs uh yes all right can you ask them to put it on the agenda for that meeting so that it gets discussed for sure yes Mak sense to me yeah I would think that all and I'm yeah I'm sorry TR I I was just going to say I would think that all groups um who are reporting back to their respective boards would feel or committees or who they're reporting back to would feel that they are representing those boards

205or committees um I would imagine yes but as a planning board member for a comprehensive plan that we have statute I think that might be the difference so I I I agree and and if I was representing not the planning board I would not well I person be having this conversation at the board but I I think it would be a very different thing and I think there's a difference when I'm asked to represent the planning board in the process I I think the planning board has to be part of those decisions however that comes about but isn't isn't the planning board part of the decisions as being part of the steering committee Marcel we don't need to rehash this but we told you about incidents where decisions were made and planning board was not

206present that has not been fixed yet but but but you are rehashing it Kate so I'm just asking the question the the the the revote of the document to me and I I guess everybody has a different reading that's what I find the the document says that the sering committee will be the lead and they will basically run the the process moving forward and with the help with the project management team when when required that's the way I read and I read specific excerpt of it when we did that vote if if that is the case that's why I'm asking if any concerns have been raised to the heads of that steing committee because that's how I read that document I I I just don't know what else to say well I I mean that

207may may be that I have a different understanding and I might not be the right planning board represent representative to that group I don't know how you R reach that conclusion but if that's your conclusion this this there nothing that I can say about it yeah I I I think seems it seems as though as though we're trying to force a way of of operating of that committee that is not what is the General understanding and and and if if that that could be a a personal view of of people on the matter and I respect that I just don't understand well I I think what made it clear to me a little bit when Deepa said it seems like a power struggle and I had never considered it that way I consider a policy

208and a process um but if it's seen as a power struggle then I would think the planning board should be in on reviewing the power of things and I really thought when this was ironed out at the beginning with the select board Town manager and planning board that that was the way the planning board would would be part of it but yeah we don't need I'm I'm just being fair to my colleagues in reporting where it stands and where I stand with the process and I totally appreciate it but when DEA made that comment was as part of the discussion and that's was the past the way it ended is that we revoted to to to remove any power struggle so going back to how the discussion started it just I I don't think it

209takes us anywhere yeah I I I agree with Marcelo I thought we took away the power struggle because the the power according to the document lies with the steering committee as a whole of which our two planning board members are a part it that's absolutely I agreed to that but if the steering committee is never making decisions I I think that's a Nuance that maybe maybe if you weren't there and seeing the meetings or maybe don't have the same concerns that I do but so as much as I enjoy this back and forth and trying to figure it out I think I feel like we're rehashing some of the past where what I'm hearing from Kate is more that she is of the opinion that this continued debate is showing that maybe she shares my

210concerns that she and I may not be the right representatives to the steering committee that's what I'm hearing so I I don't want to spend a lot of time I personally don't think there's a lot of value to us to continuing this debate at every single planning board meeting but I think there is a lot of value and I appreciate um because at the last meeting I was the only one who spoke up and I certainly appreciate that Kate is sharing a similar concern and hopefully next week at the steering committee meeting my concerns and Kate's will will be addressed and we don't have to keep this coming back as a topic no I I take apologize for that I just I thought that if I didn't mention it it looked like I didn't have

211that concern so but that's it thank you I I totally agree with with Anna I mean I think after that meeting there was one meeting and this is going to be the second one um so and and this is this is now and I hope that things improve like can I said let's see I go that's why it's important to raise it to to the chairs and get that discussion going the the um what what what I have to say just like you feel that way Kate I feel that we we are rehashing something that was discussed and every time I hear oh they didn't make a decision this way that way and and I may not be the right person okay that that seems like a like a um I I want to use

212the right word see seems like a like a suggestion that is consistently thrown out there um and I feel pressured by that suggestion so if if that is the case I I I don't know how to resolve it I I I I I don't want you to ever be part of something that you don't feel that that is working or or that is unfair to you but but I just don't know how to solve that problem and and and just trying we we try to solve it to remove the idea Team B disbanded we did not want that we want the the structure of what we agreed to to remain and but then we keep hearing the same the same concept without having given the time for the steering committee to do just exactly that

213so that's how I feel about it so you got to cut off a little bit in the room Marcelo uh because we lost the power for about a second um and what I'll say is to me there is a there seems to be a focus on planning board jurisdiction at least for me relative to the role of the planning board in the comprehensive plan process I think at the next steering committee it will be very clear how the steering committee leadership approaches the jurisdiction of the planning board and if my role in that room is not uh productive to that leadership position then I would assume another member of the planning board might be a better fit for that role that's at least my position so I'm not saying that somehow you should be under

214pressure to solve anything other than someone else on this board may be the right person to step up to the role that's created by the steering committee if that role is contrary to uh a specific planning board's perspective so my perspective is that planning uh a comprehensive plan process is squarely within the authority of the planning board and so if I see that the steering committee meeting is such where it's clear that that's not the way leadership of the steering committee views the process um then I do see it as a power struggle that is not not productive and therefore I would step back so I hope that clears it up because it's not a matter of you solving it it's really a matter of me stepping out if I am getting in the way

215of whatever leadership position that's presented at that meeting and I agree with that and and and and I personally don't see that yeah we keep going about of the jurisdiction or the planning board on everything I from everything I've I've seen and I'm not a lawyer so I I just I just say from the architect's point view um the the the reason this uh whole process is taking place is in part because of you because you were passionate enough to push it through and we all uh sign up on it and and it's moving forward and it's taking place so that that was leadership right there the idea that that the planning board has to have a final say on every decision there I'm not sure about that I I I think that at some

216point we need to let go this idea that we have to control it because it's under the jurisdiction I get it but it is why is the town's master plan is the town's comprehensive plan it's not the planning board's comprehensive town and and I think we need to let that process develop as an organic Town project not a planning board project I I I don't think why we have to be attached to that concept but I respect it that's how you feel about it yeah I I agree I thought that I thought the whole point was to give the power to the residents and to the people of Ashland and this was something that was supposed to come out of what they wanted not what we wanted and so I thought the fact that we

217could get two co-chairs out of that group that was chosen by the planning board and the select board to rise up and lead the people I thought was exactly what we had hoped for I didn't think it would happen but exactly what we would hope for and then the planning board and select board would step back and allow the people to lead that was kind of my I don't know glorious interpretation of where I thought we were going um so if that's uh if that's not the direction if that's not what you signed up for then I think like Marcel said I think that's something you need to decide for yourself so and then we'll we'll figure out what to do with that so [Music] um but if there's no other comments tonight and I'm

218sure it'll come up come up again we just need to get through the meeting minutes that we stay on board I mean the one thing I'll say is I don't I don't disagree with anything you said I think very strong leadership of the steering committee is extremely important and select board or planning board should not be running the steering committee um so I I actually agree with that fully um I don't think this has anything to do with strong leadership of the steering committee I think it's more about how how are data decisions made between meetings of the steering committee is that a town hall decision with the co-chairs does that involve select board members does it involve planning board members I'm of the opinion that it should involve planning board members those decisions that

219are made between meetings I don't think that opinion somehow says oo the chair should have role um and I personally take offense that uh saying that this planning board has a jurisdictional um role somehow belittles the chairs and this has become kind of turned into that as if me or Kate are attacking the chairs um and frankly that's one of the key Reasons I'm starting to question whether this is the right role for me um because it's it's a complete um misunderstanding of what jurisdiction means to somehow turn it into this sort of oh you must be saying that the chairs have no role uh when it's actually the exact opposite it's about supporting the leadership and offering planning board expertise to the process yeah and as planning board it mean the planning board like

220bringing issues potent as representatives of us bringing issues back to the five of us or the six of us in order then to bring them back to the steering committee oh absolutely and and that whole thing with with uh the experts on different survey topics was the prime example where had it been handled consistent with what I'm presenting Kate and I would have brought that document to you for feedback and input as to who the experts should be and then the planning board would contribute at to the project management group our input for who the expert should be right so we can we can call that as I think was acknowledged kind of an early mistake but I think we have to move on it's time to move on from that and to see what

221happens at the next meeting at the and the next meeting this thing is still in its infancy so do we have to judge everything by the early mistake or can we can we all do better right and and kind of move on so I I would say let kind of let it play out a little bit right let it play out go in with an open mind everyone should go in with an open mind to be a you know and and see what happens absolutely like I said I'm looking forward to that meeting I'm I'm still on the steering committee as a planning board rep and so I remain hopeful that uh other than saying it should have been handled better it actually will be handled better um and I appreciate Kate reinforcing that she

222apparently shares my my concerns um and I I certainly do not want anything I've stated here tonight or prior meeting to put pressure on anyone on this board it's more about finding a constructive way forward and if I feel that I'm getting in the way of the success of the process I think that other people on this board can step up and do an excellent job in my place um and it's not some kind of pressure point it's really about wanting this to succeed I think yeah I think um we'll we'll obviously wait for you to decide um decide your position on that if you have any questions obviously you can bring them to us but otherwise it feels like kind of a personal decision and if we can help in any way with that

223personal decision let us know but I'm I'm not sure you know what that would be so all right but I appreciate I mean I think it's you know we have to be open and obviously trans transparent in the discussion but I'd say let let it let it play out a little bit now that these heavy duty discussions have happened to see if things can resettle in a different way that's more productive so [Music] um so obviously comprehensive plan will continue to be on our agenda um so there's always another opportunity to talk about that um meanwhile we just have to wrap up these these meeting minutes um from October 26 we can look at first um and then November 9th I think these were remarkably a couple of our shorter meetings um so maybe they

224won't be so bad Peter do have a October 26 ready uh you put up on screen um sure if it's quick I I don't I had very few Corrections yeah I have I right now I'm sorry it's right in front of me right now I can open it's right in front of you right now okay sorry we're having trouble hearing but um I guess for me on the October 26th the only things I had was line 72 um you're just miss missing a well not you the we're just missing a d the board discussed an updated letter I guess it probably doesn't even it's not even that big of a change line 72 adding a d to update [Music] um yeah that might have been oh I know the the other thing I had was

225after line 92 this was when we were discussing um um we were discussing the first letter that Anna had and Kate had brought to the memo had brought to the design had brought to the planning board and I thought that should end um by just saying the board agreed to request that the select board add this topic to the Joint meeting on November 15th appr sure your prior your prior comment um I guess I read it differently it's I I I think update later it's almost should be hyphenated but I think that's what it meant isn't it oh I guess I think you're maybe right actually yeah so because it's an update letter from M tski so yes not it's not updated oh I guess I guess the D would make sense okay I think

226you're right I don't think it needs a d no D on 72 this is what happens at with minutes at uh 10:50 at night um think I think that other sentence needs to be added after 92 I'm just impressed with I'm just impressed with marcela's pronunciation of my last name so well I've been I've been working on my [Laughter] russan so Peter did you hear that sentence that I gave or something similar yeah I said I said the uh the board agreed to have the select board add um this topic to the Joint November 5th meeting yep something like that okay that's all I had um I'm just curious that line 73 where concerning the integrated comprehensive plan team and process should that be very particularly address the project management team versus comprehensive plan team

227because the concern was the challenges within the project management team and not the overall process I would say that's a good change so instead of saying concerning the integrated comprehens of plan team should we say project management team correct what line are we on 72 uh 73 sorry okay I think that's right com it makes it seem like the concern is for the entire comprehensive plan team yeah whereas the discussion truly was about the project management team so project comprehensive planning management comprehensive plan project management team team okay try to say that five times quickly got it any other um oh we're glad to have you back on screen there is are there any other changes to October nope okay I will make a motion to accept the October 26 meeting minutes as amended second

228roll call vote an teski i I Katherine Jersey eyy and Trisha Kendall ey okay so on to the November 9th meeting minute um I it seemed to me that in absence that it seems to me that Peter should lift list himself as absent oh yeah because it's so unusual you know so um and then on line 82 I just felt we should add Samantha's last name as the sustainability coordinator her last it just says Samantha oh yeah you're getting tired oh yeah oh yeah I'll di online 128 I think we considered reviewing and correcting our bios but we did not um I think we were like hey should we do this and then we were like not tonight so maybe we should remove line 128 because I think from what I recall Trisha you were

229you brought the BIOS in and you were like we should do this but I don't remember us actually making edits am I wrong I think actually the things had been in the folders for a while and then I said hey let's take this opportunity and a couple people said I did mine or um okay good as it is or whatever yeah maybe we say some members reviewed and corrected their bios because I did not do mine okay the members accept Anna their bio I failed the assignment I did not do my homework so I just want to be accurate that yeah that's fine we can put some just change some members reviewed and corrected their bios and certain some ones did not um since I was absent on N did Amanda not vote for those

230two public hearing I I don't think she was able to oh is she good okay well because um I don't think she's been sitting on it for the whole time oh okay so all right should I make a motion Trisha are there any other changes to November 9th uh I'll make a motion to approve the November 9th 2023 minutes as amended second second and a roll C Anna tesis I Kate oh Katherine J A guy I Trisha Kendall I um Amanda should be able to vote on this one I think but it doesn't really matter so okay we're good um anything else before we adjourn I just wanted to make a quick note I did send out the uh 20 2024 schedule the only one thing was in February our second meeting Falls the week

231of February break um and I don't know when everyone's travel plans um we there are five Thursdays in February um it is a leap year there's 29 days sounds crazy but it's true um so we do have an option to move that second meeting to the fifth Thursday which would obviously open up that short week which I know some people do travel for including myself uh selfishly uh so just to give everyone a head up on that I would suggest we do that okay I won't be there that day as well so I would say avoid school vacation week I think it's a good call to move up if the rest of the board is y yeah that works you don't have anything in yeah okay okay so I'm sorry totally I thought we were

232voting on the minutes and not ading oh no no no we were voting on the minutes we were voting on the minutes you're you're you're you're good so um if there's nothing else anyone nope we're good I will make motion that we adjourn at 10:55 and enjoy a little holiday break I'll second that and a roll coote Anna teski I Catherine Jersey I and Amanda haes I Trisha Kendall I all right happy holiday everybody happy Holidays happy New Year guys happy New Year what do you me to say bye bye I just got to get at the