Planning Board - Hybrid Meeting Thursday, October 12, 2023

001of October 12th 2012 2023 just a reminder to everyone that the meeting is being broadcast and recorded um first on our agenda well I guess I'll officially call the meeting um to order at 7:23 the first item on our agenda is the clerk's report Kate Madam chair we received four communication uh by email from the public uh since the last planning board meeting thank you thank you um next on our agenda is public comment um so if any members of the live audience or the um it all right Peter I'll let you manage public comment sure so thank you so much we have two uh people uh two uh two members of the public that are looking to make a comment so uh first we're going to go uh in the room um to the

002podium um Mr Joel arbitman please introduce yourself with your name and address um Joel arbitman I chair the Ashland upper Charles Trail committee and I thank the board for giving me an opportunity to speak to some issues of concern that I have uh last May I submitted some written comments to the planning board about the homer a is it right Homer AV project and the board's uh reaction at that time one of the words that was used in sort of uh deemphasizing what I felt was an important uh safety consideration was the word aspirational we can't plan around a trail that doesn't exist there's almost nothing here you know someday maybe there'll be a trail and I just wanted to speak to a number of events that have occurred since May that lend uh important

003uh weight to the to how real this Trail is and and I hope that you'll uh take this under consideration first uh I've been told by the uh select board chair that Senator spilka has set aside some $2 million for ashlin's trail that's a serious amount of money and and would allow us to do a lot of uh surveying engineering and actual construction second representative Jack Lewis also was able to procure an additional $125,000 for the trail again that's you know it's not going to build the whole Trail but it's it's a an indication of deep commitment by our representatives and by the town and perhaps most importantly our own select board on June 20th at their retreat uh uh has uh uh determined that the trail project should be a priority project for the

004town uh meaning that we have been receiving additional staff time and resources Mr machek has attended one meeting already with us the town manager and another one is scheduled in the next couple of weeks so this is happening this is not some far off Fantasy by some bike riding Guy this is real uh there's substantial resources being put behind this and we're doing it so the question becomes what impact or impacts do we need to consider when we look at projects that are literally right adjacent to the trail I mean we give great concern to a Butters the trail isn't a butter and more importantly the trail is going to have as its users our residents in Ashland we're going to have kids riding bicycles we're going to have adults riding bicycles some of them

005with great skill and many not and so uh uh one of the concerns that I want to raise uh about the homer project is the parking uh my understanding is I don't have the exact number but it looks like there are some roughly 60 parking spots there can anybody tell me whether a traffic study has been done when the fir when the applicant first applied there was some traffic count submitted yes I'm sorry I I I wasn't able to hear that traffic counts were traffic counts I believe were submitted at the time of the original application so was was that done by an independent uh traffic consulting firm or was this supplied by the applicant it was it was supplied by the applicant and I and I and that's that's all I can speak to

006Okay so I mean if one were to just make a simple statement that uh children are going to be riding by this project right where these cars that are parked in the project are going back to the uh development are going to be parking uh uh you know is have we provide have we provided an adequate level of diligence to assess what the risk to the the children of the community and and others using these bike lanes that we're looking to put in one other uh item that I didn't mention is that the select board has been talking about as part of our complete streets program uh putting in a bike lane along Summer Street which as you know would run from the 135 end down to the light at Main Street the the continuation

007of that is the bike path that's the plan uh so I have no traffic background but I want to point out that if there are roughly 60 parking spots whatever the actual number number is I don't have that what is a what is an expect what is a reasonable expectation of trips per day per car or per unit or per you know per residence I don't know if each car goes out to work in the morning and comes back in the evening and maybe goes out once to the supermarket or to a local restaurant or something and comes back that's four trips and you multiply that times the number of cars well there each one of those trips is likely to be crossing the bike path so reducing the number of parking spots is one

008way to reduce the risk to Residents using the bike path and looking at other types of traffic mitigation could be considered also like a traffic light for example at the corner of Alden and uh Homer or coming out of the rear lot which I understand is now one way which by by the way I I want to point out the document that I submitted that I I really felt the board was very dismissive of of the importance of these considerations I raised uh included a recommendation to make that back parking lot a one way which I was glad to hear later the fire department had their own independent concerns and and that the board uh thought that was important to do so that's great that's a definite Improvement I think that's about it so I

009I I guess the question is you know oh oh and one other thing I've been hearing a lot of talk you guys know this better than I do about possible significant housing going in where the current Mill building is so we're talking about not we shouldn't be just looking at Homer AV in a vacuum and saying well it's this many units it's this many cars here's our estimated trips per day on or crossing the bike path on Homer but we're going to put in an addition to that more housing and more cars S at the Mill building if that project is is a reality and those people you know we can speculate that they're going to go north up Myrtle Street to the pike or they'll never they'll never be on Homer but you know

010a lot of those residents are going to be going over to the gas station on Homer come and again it's crossing the bike path in and out uh one last thing I wanted to say and I hope I'm not misquoting the attorney uh I watched I watched the uh the last hearing and I believe this is what the this is what I heard the attorney say let me put it that way uh there was a a calculation made of the number of parking spots for the commercial space on Homer I guess the first floor is what we're talking about and I did my own math and couldn't couldn't come up with the same calculation so maybe this could be explained more clearly uh what I heard was that there's a certain calculation in our bylaws

011or zoning code that that talks about how many spaces you need to allocate based on the type of business number of seats and so on and what I heard uh attorney mors say uh was I I think that uh he said the uh the the pizza place would have required nine seats and each of the two smaller businesses uh the barber shop and the whatever the other one is were were two each so that would have been 9 plus 2 plus 2 13 uh parking spots for the for the current businesses if we don't plan and allow as as they say in the shoe business room in the toe if the businesses changeed but let's say as a requirement that that it would have been 13 spots and attorney moris went on to explain that

012uh because it's in the downtown zone or there are certain specificities in the zoning code uh there's a an exception I guess I'm not sure what the jargon is uh to allow only 75% of the uh the number calculated and uh what I heard was he arrived at 8 when he did the calculation my math and and my little pocket calculator says if you do 3/4 75% of 13 it's 10 9.75 to be exact which would require an extra two spots maybe I'm not doing the math right uh if it just to keep it simple if it's 3/4 of 12 and this would be 3/4 of 13 that would be nine he came up with eight so I I just to point out that that my math is showing that there would be an additional

013two public parking spots required and again I I'm not saying I have a full understanding of this but I I I was confused by that and I would love to have an explanation anyway that's it thank you very much I appreciate your giving me the time to speak thank you Mr Ritman just for clarification the downtown add zoning bylaw does have its own parking calculations and it's 75% of 75% and so there's another step within your calculation that you missed okay okay great thank you you're welcome the second person with their hand raised is Mr Mark donon Mr Mark D can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address okay thank you good evening Mark 49 half Road I have couple of questions and and maybe in opinion if I get an answer

014on one the downtown construction is nearly finished how much more through the planning department is left to have done that can be said to the public that's one Mr Mar uh Mr Don so yes the downtown project is is near in completion uh there's a couple elements that still need to be done they're going to be installing brick in the Middle Island um you know in the coming days into or weeks um and then I think that's really about it I think it they're down to to a punch list uh I am not the project manager on that and so that may be better suited for for uh for for a town manager but I think the punch list items will be completed as soon as possible and I think you're looking for final completion

015in the spring I think everyone can appreciate the Landscaping that was recently planted and uh and I think it's that's what I that's what I can you know as an update I can give uh Mr Don and the other one would be if I have permission to ask in the in the comprehensive plan is how much more ground work is left to be done before the public can have an idea of what there's going to be for um back to the planning board back and forth before public forums what's what's what's there that going to be through the plan through the members that are on it I can ask and Mark I'm one of the members on the St ing committee the comprehensive plan process just started in some ways because we just uh began

016work with our consultant and it is a multi-month process most communities it takes about two years to wrap up a comprehensive plan process so we're just at the beginning okay at some point there will be check-ins with the planning board as the work continues and I'm sure the steering committee will seek input of the planning board but there isn't a particular time frame that we can share right now until the consultant and the steering committee get going it's just starting out and and I just had one little plug though on public that um December forum and we don't have a date but just have people really on the lookout because that is the a big kickoff of public input okay thank you and um there was some sort of talk committees other committees in town

017here saying that know it's it's the two committees the design review and the planning board how strong are both of those boards together other than say ask and they can look at this say things about a uh project and then come back and circle around go back to one board come back to the other how strong is that c together Mark I I think we are definitely making Headway in the relationship you may not be aware we had at one point a meeting of both uh entities in order to talk about improving our communication and we've developed some improvements such as getting written feedback from design review uh which is a major improvement in our communication style so I would say that Circle of communication is strengthening I'm sure there's things we can do better

018Mark but we're making progress and um I I was my opinion which is not um negative not positive but it's down the road sort of thing the uh businesses economic growth I think in my mind should be more said than a horrible housing because the economic growth in this town is not there and still making the citizens the oldest citiz and senior citizens paying more from here so businesses should be more welcomed and housing should be put on waiting list thank you all right thank you uh next item on our agenda is um number four at we're talking about a planning board represent representative to the Metro West Regional collaborative and with us we have Yolanda gavves from the select board who also currently chairs the Metro West Regional collaborative and um I've invited Yolanda

019here to kind of explain to us a little bit what it is um and we do have um our new associate member Amanda who may be interested in filling that position so if you can fill us in we'd appreciate it Yolanda sure so the Metro excuse me the Metro West Regional collaborative is one of the sub regions of the MPC which is the metropolitan area planning Council uh they have 101 cities and towns that they represent and as a town we work with them we pay dues to them to participate and be part of their organization they also then help us with different projects so the Metro West Regional collaborative is our sub region it is currently nine communities it's about to be 10 it is Holliston Ashland Framingham natic Marboro Wayland Weston Southboro that's

020eight Welsley and we're about to add Sherborn uh one of the reasons we're looking to add Sherborn is through a lot of the discussions on the upper Charles Trail Sherborn was doing things and we said you know it would be really good if they were part of our conversation what is the benefit of either participating or us being a part of the Metro Regional collaborative so when I first came on the select board 11 plus years ago uh we needed a new appointee because the person who was the appointee had was no longer on the board and for me it was an opportunity to meet other select board members and planning board members as well as different Community leaders throughout the region and I was able to learn a lot and get to know all

021these people so that when we're having discussions it's not just an Ashlin discussion it can be a regional discussion so we're about to look at having a discussion about the new MBTA 3A zoning how is that impacting communities how are different communities dealing with it the other project that we've been working on for I don't know probably seven or eight years is a project that mapc has started but that we are very much a big part of it's called the landline project and that is connecting multi-use Trails not only in our region but throughout the region and because of the work of this landline project that is not just ours but other regions there is a north to south Greenway that's getting put in place so from Maine to Florida and originally they were going

022to have it come through Massachusetts out near Worcester and Springfield because of the work that our region is doing between the upper Charles Trail the Bruce Freeman Trail Chris Walsh Trail the Chris Walsh Trail and various other trails the minute man Trail Mass between all these Trails it was determined that instead of having that north south go to the middle of the state it's going to come through our region so the upper Charles trail that we are working on for Ashland it won't necessarily hit the Ashland portion but because we'll be connected to Sherborn and Holliston and Framingham eventually which is Framingham is doing a lot of work people will be coming down that trail and they'll be saying oh if I want to go see what ashlin's doing or if I want to go

023see what's going on so the collaboration within this organization for our region has been very beneficial for us for that um like I said for myself when I first got on the board and I was the representative I would go to these meetings and I learned so much about what other communities are doing but it also gave me insight into some of what the planning board does because I was still learning about what the I mean I knew what the planning board did but not to the same extent I also met some great leaders if you know Dennis GM Betty Who currently works for Senator spilka's office he was the Framingham representative and another gentleman some of you may know or maybe not uh Josh OST who was from natic he was their select board

024representative at the time and now I'm making connections with Marboro because they have their representative there and Southboro and so whoever decides to represent from the planning board I think if you can sit in on those meetings on a regular basis they are they are very educational um the important part though is we have not had a planning board representative since Preston Crow stepped down and unfortunately the current bylaws of the the collaborative is you have to have a quorum of your communities and the n and each Community has two people that need to represent it to be able to take any vote so we're not the only community that hasn't had a second person for a while but this between now and November we're in the process of really as a group trying to

025every town have their two Representatives appointed and be at meetings so that we can take some votes we have some bylaw changes that we need to vote on we have some funding project Project funding that we need to vote on uh so when I spoke last with Trisha and when I was here last time it was recommend you know it was suggested that maybe Amanda might be interested but she might not always be able to make it so I reached out and I got confirmation that we can have an appointee and we can have an alternate we just need to put that in the appointing letter that we send to Metro West Regional collaborative so if aanda decide she'd like to be the appointee I would recommend that Alvaro be her uh alternate so that

026if she can't be at a meeting or if she's not there when voting is happening that we at least have a second person you know in the room sort of say so that um the collaborative can get its business done cuz right now we've been hindered by not having and again it's not just Ashlin that hasn't had one hollis's been having some issues marbo some other communities as well where they maybe appoint people but they don't show up and they you have to have a certain quorum to be able to take a vote so I have a question on that because I think either last time you said it was a planning board so what are the actual requirements is it just another representative not no it needs to be a member either a select

027board member or someone appointed by the select board or a planning board member or someone appointed by the planning board for each of these communities now for the two cities for Framingham and marbo it's not it's city counselor or it's or mayor appointees but the the idea is that for each of the communities there need to be two people appointed and then ideally show up at the meetings so that we can vote and have Quorum because with 18 people well and it's going to be 20 people are going to be appointed we're going to need to have at least 11 people showing up to be able to take a vote okay and that I guess I would just want when we mentioned last time Alvaro he's not a planning board member so I was wondering

028how that works it can be an appointee and there are many communities that do not have a planning board member or a select board member um I know for Weston they have a select board member and then it's their Town planner um for whand the woman who is appointed as the planning board member or I maybe she's a select board appointee is no longer on the board but no one currently on the board was interested and she was interested in continuing the seat um sari who is now in Framingham used to be in Wayland he was there appointee for the planning board so it doesn't have to be a planning board member it has to be a planning board appointee or a select board appointee and just a note either myself and or alv try

029to attend every meeting so Alvaro has been attending and networking just for the reasons why um y ler stated and when I try to I can try I try to jump on when I can so just to make a note that Alvaro has had a presence uh and and we do try to stay connected with within that sub region group yep and you noted that the the meetings are at the third Thursday from 8:00 to 9:30 the third Thursday at 8 to 93 9 online typically yeah so what we've been doing certainly since coid is they've all been via Zoom unless we're having a big event so in October on the 26th we're having one of our big Trails events that's happening in framing so that will not be in person fortunately for that one

030there won't be Tak we won't there won't be any votes taken it's really just presentations on what's going on and and a way to again connect and talk to different people and find out what other planning board people are dealing with or select board people or even talking to their Town managers or city counselors um and that won't just be our region they reach out to the regions that abut us as well so there's the magic region and what's the one in the Sou sou the South the Southshore Coalition there's a Northshore task force there's magic there's the Metro West and I believe there's three rivers uh which is the the medfit area right and then I believe there's a northern middle sex as well which covers conquered um conquered Stow um mayor that kind

031of District I would say so um Amanda did express interest in in taking this position we had talked about a little bit before it didn't it seemed like it was um and if anyone else is interested they should step up but someone that can commit themselves to to this position um Amanda do you want to I'd be thrilled to represent the planning board um I think you know I my one hesitation was the timing and just family obligations getting my kids to school but um I I can be there it's it's a question of you know it might be 805 810 and that's that's the yeah when I when I talk to Trisha about it so because I'm the chair I have a hand in creating the agenda so if it's the kind of thing

032where if I know you're planning on being there if you're our representative I can make sure that we don't do you know like minutes or any vote taking at the beginning of the meeting we can move at a little bit later in the meeting perfect and and I I would I'm thrilled at that opportunity and that flexibility um yeah I would love to and if you want to talk in more detail I'd love to have a conversation but first is are there any other comments from the planning board about who we want to represent us I have another comment not about who to represent us okay um I I guess I'm a little disappointed that sort of first I'm hearing that we weren't Staffing this and it came up and I get that that's how

033it works but also is there a way to integrate some feedback to the board like about what's happening like high level but can we put it on our agenda at at the followup and have a absolutely we will put Amanda on the spot every single meeting and to have a report but and and and we actually did have someone um L me was actually our representative and I don't know if she just didn't wasn't aware always of the meetings I'm not sure she well until she left she was I mean so after I guess after Preston left she was your appointee so she was there so I guess it's been since Lai has so it it hasn't been this whole time you know and Emma would go to the meetings I would try to go

034meeting cly there was presentation from the planning but because there was no one officially appointed for Ashland other than myself we didn't we didn't always have Quorum I mean a lot of times we did because of the other communities but we're at a we're right now within the collaborative really trying to push that each Community has their two appointees and it's official um and again the October meeting wasn't as critical because we're not taking any votes but at our first at our meeting in November which I believe is going to be the 30th because the fourth Thursday is actually Thanksgiving so it'll be the week after we'll be taking votes on the bylaw and um funding of some projects so we just want to get this taken care of so is there any other member

035of the board that is interested in taking on this responsibility seeing No Hands raised I make a motion that we appoint Amanda Hayes to be pling board representative to the meeting with it um Alvaro our assistant Town planner as the alternate and is there a second I'll second that and a roll call vote deai Anna teski I Marcel I Katherine Jers I Trisha Kendall I and that task is done great thank you very much I appreciate it and again Amanda let's get together um and we can chat perfect thank you I'm excited welcome thank you all thank you all right so next on our agenda um uh we have two public hearings tonight the first one is 400 Cedar Street this is a special permit for T-Mobile North East Peter can you kind of um

036introduce that topic to us sure thank you so much thank you so much so this application is for uh 400 Cedar Street also for uh 36 uh 396 sometimes known as 400 Cedar Street this is a town of ashin owned water tank right on the Ashlin um excuse me Ashen hollon line so the applicant is T-Mobile represented tonight by Adam brayy um EXC EXC I forgot I forgot your Law Firm I'm sorry okay I'll let you intr introduce yourself uh but just uh in the process the town of Ashland uh for many years has had uh cell equipment Communications equipment uh attached to this Tower um and not to take any of the the the the steam away from the application but um very briefly um over the years the town of Ashland had five

037um five carriers attached to this water tank four on the sides and then one on top of the tank T-Mobile over the years the town of ashin um through our water and sewer department um DPW uh Doug Small and our consultant Greg Aldridge um we've always kind of kept a close eye on the tank um and really the structural Integrity of the top of the tower with the equipment on it so um over time Sprint merged with T-Mobile um and they for Sprint uh has taken their equipment off the tower the town of Ashland always has that the desire to move T-Mobile to the side of the Tower so with Sprint leaving indoor merging with T-Mobile it's opened up a vacancy on the side of the tower the town of Ashland ex let the lease

038expire for T-Mobile who which once sat on top of the tower and then every 20 years we have to put out RFP and so the RFP was put out for the vacant spot on the side of the tower T-Mobile was the winner of that RFP process and they are looking to um theoretically move their equipment to the side of from the top of the tower to the side of the tower in doing so they're looking to upgrade their equipment but the the perming of Team Mobile on the tower on the 400 Cedar Street Tower does date back I believe to 2002 uh when the zon board of appeals issued a the variance and a special permit for the location of their cell equipment I do just want to make note that the applicant and oursel

039in the town of ashon work together because the the location of this Tower sat very close to the town line that both residents within 300 ft of the property in Ashland and within hollon were notified um of this hearing and of the equipment being proposed so with that I will turn it over to the applicant Adam brayy and he can take us through the application great thank you uh Peter and I I don't think I have to say much more um just for the record uh my name is Adam brillard I with a firm called Prince leel Thai we represent T-Mobile on a number of permanent and Leasing and Zoning aspects um throughout the years um and I'm here in connection with a uh modification of an existing special permit that was granted back in

0402002 for the reasons that um that Peter referenced we I think we approached the town back in 2021 um with an an interest T-Mobile's interest in modifying the existing site changing out the antennas there's currently nine panel antennas up there with some um remote radio units I think six remote radio units and T-Mobile at that time just wanted to swap out the antennas the lease was coming up for end of its life for 20 years um and Peter and I Peter contacted me we got together and and we said let's let's kind of do everything here at once if um if T-Mobile wants to continue to stay on the tank then the the town's going to um then they're going to have to uh respond to an RFP and win that bid um and then

041we can talk about um what what we want to do with the equipment so that's what we did the the town um put the um location out to our p and I'm I'm reiterating what Peter said but um T-Mobile respond to that I was actually I did the work for that as well a big part of what's in the application that tab six I think is um is the lease it's I'm not sure what it's the lease and the RFP response um so we've were working on this for a while I think it's tab six yeah um so once we won that then the next step and Next Step was then to negotiate the lease um I think there was a minimum bid amount so the rent was already determined but we needed to negotiate

042the legal terms I also did that with the town um and uh and Town Council um and then we that was fully executed not that long ago probably two or three months ago and then we filed um our application with this board for the uh the modification Andor special permit so what we're proposed so that's kind of the the history here we've been working on this for a little while again uh currently Teo is on the top of the tank um just going back a little bit when we first kind conted Peter in the town um they got got the consultant in involved um Halo Ward um and then early 2022 um Hal Ward said listen tanks aren't really meant to have equipment on the top everything's good structural analysis that we've run is is

043fine what they've run is fine the beams underneath are are not corroded or anything like that but over time we don't want to worry about that and their recommendation was to for T-Mobile to go on the side of the tank and it made sense now that um T-Mobile and Sprint emerged and Sprint was removing its equipment so all that has happened te- Ms agreed with that we've uh rent our RFP response referenced the mounting on the side of the antenna and coming off the top the lease agreement the lease agreement and the exhibits in the lease agreement show uh T-mobile taking the antennas off the side the top and going on the sides so this is really the close to the final step final step up being a building permit um and that's why we're

044here and so the proposal is to take the mounting equipment off take the panel antennas off the top the remote radio units off the top of the tank anything that's on the top off the tank and then put back on the side of the tank um eight panel antennas instead of we have nine up there now but because of the the um challenges with other carriers that are on the side of the tank we are not going to be able to get the full nine so we'll have two sectors of three panel antennas and one sector of two panel antennas to to Total nine that works for the radio frequency standpoint so we're good there um and then we'll have six remote radio units also on the side of the tank and then we'll run

045the conduit and co- axle cabling accordingly and down where it already exists at the base of the tank where T-Mobile's existing um cabinets are there's two existing cabinets we're going to remove one large cab cabinet which is about the size of a refrigerator and then install two small cabinets on that same pad one of those cabinets is a radio equipment cabinet the other one's a battery backup and we'll run um we're going to run uh hybrid cables to the uh to the antenna's additional we're going to take off I think 12 coax cables and run uh smaller hybrid cables and that's really the extent of the uh the installation um when you mention the uh um consultant is that the dpw's third party consultant Greg Eldridge correct so Greg Eldridge works for Helen board Greg

046Eldridge uh takes care of is is kind of is there we always talk about gcg and how they do our our civil reviews uh Greg Eldridge and uh Halen Ward are dpws gcg third party consultant for all water and sewer matters um and Greg has been reviewing this and actually it's it's being reviewed One More Time by Greg um and we're just waiting for final sign off on that I do want to make note when you see the tank um and if you're ever coming up Elliot Street um outer Elliot Street from Sherborn and you look above the tree line I would say at around uh 10:00 10 11:00 you can actually see the tank and and one of the elements that we do need to look at as a town is actually paint the

047tank and so that is one a key component of another re reason why we were looking to move the equipment off the top and the side is so we can have greater access to kind of maintain that tank so is it a matter of kind of safety for the equipment that we requested the town requested this be moved I think it's both I think it's a little bit of everything I think number one I think over time structurally we did not want equipment up on that tank you know it's a piece of infrastructure that the town owns and operates um and number two um it allows us greater access to maintain the tank um and then also with the vacancy of Sprint on the side of the tank this was kind of the perfect opportunity

048to have since Sprint dropped out T-Mobile in merged with T-Mobile T-Mobile was on the top it was just kind of bringing everything together so since uh a social concern is kind of one of the basis for for this change is the town set on never leasing the top of the tank again great question I don't have a full answer to that but I'm going to take a stab and say yes the town is not looking to it it's not recommended by Greg Eldridge to lease space on top of not just any not just the town of Ashton water tank but on any water tank on top and so I think it's kind of a Greg Eldridge third party Consulting civil engineering matter where you you say you know what this tank built in this time

049era was really not developed into or designed to hold this weight and so over time there is a possibility um obviously I don't have the accreditations to tell you that the town will never lease this tank on top of the tank but uh I don't think the town is in any interest to to go out to bid to implement another carrier on top of the tank so um was there any preliminary findings from Greg Eldridge on on this you said he was going to be issuing a final report there's a we have a letter Tab four I think is it do we have yeah I think it's Tab four so that's the structural analysis that we ran oh this tab four is your analysis yeah that's our analysis um that for the side for the

050side gotcha do we do we have an analysis for the top being a bad idea what I have is from Greg um I have a couple copies of that yeah we don't have a structal analysis for the top of the tank the equipment's been up there since 2000 the early 2000s um when when T-Mobile was first issued this permit so the the way these telecommunications leases work right and and and please step in Adam if I if I misspeak um but from what I've collected is the state of Massachusetts does not allow season sils to enter into any lease agreements four um we can just pass it around that you cannot typically leases correct me if I'm wrong do not exceed 20 years in a 20 year time frame and so and so back in

051early 2000s it was still when when cities and towns were pering these cell towers um on smoke sacks on water tanks wherever it was still a little bit of a little bit of the while West I would say yeah you know everything was run all structurals were run and there not that that I know of there's been no issues with u you know equipment on on water tanks that and I've done a ton of these really my job is to do exactly what Peter's saying is when leases are up for renewal the 20 years have gone by we go and we request towns to issue the rfps and we get on those and then a lot of times at that point ifin 20 years everyone's got a lot smarter language and rent and everything and

052time maintenance maintenance and you know like for example this town there was no there was nothing in the lease that has expired that allowed the town to require carrier to relocate temporarily while and say for example pained under this new le the town now has the right to save a T-Mobile hey you have so many you know a couple months you're right to get off the tank well we be pain and then you go back on but so it's just things like that this letter came out um in 2022 I think May and um around the same time when we were when we when T-Mobile was saying we want to just we want to just um modify the existing site and and and I was working with Peter and he said listen I think that

053uh Haley Ward is is concerned or not concerned but they they're recommending that if there's space on the side to go on the side has Haley Ward reviewed your tab four findings they're in the process of review but not concluded okay correct it hasn't been concluded it's been started that whole process has been concluded yep so I mean my my gut in and thank you so much for showing us the letter I think that's really helpful um yeah you can take it back that's okay if you need to but um I mean my thought immediately is that obviously the application seem sound per various laws that there is no substantial change in the physical dimensions relative to the current use if you will of the side being removed and there's the space on the side

054so I think arguably it's hard for us to deny the application my concern is more about our responsibility as the planning board because we do have some jurisdiction in plan and we have some responsibility for this tank and so I have no problem agreeing to the application obviously once we have Haley Ward confirmed the tab uh for your analysis we're not going to create a structural problem once I have that confirmation I'm very comfortable proving the application but I also feel like we as a planning board separate issue need to have a conversation about the fact that there was a safety concern two years ago that we did not know about until today and we do have some obligation to think hard about a $250,000 lease coming into our community that we're now aware of

055because it was signed in August of this year and we have some responsibility to make sure this tank and whatever structural damage we may have caused already is addressed because at some point in the future that is our responsibility and this will be the planning board that knew and did not do anything so I just want to make that very clear it sounded to me and correct me if I'm wrong Peter that DB W has already long been kind of on top of this issue um and that's why we have the third party consultant looking into it and making this recommendation that is correct so um yeah so I I think it's just a logical I think the the letter um by Mr Eldridge which is I think it was by him right um which

056is I think fairly brief it's just very logical that we take them off the top and put them on the side um so I obviously have um no problem with that either um with the caveat that we're we're waiting for the final the final review so that of of calculations we can't possibly understand so um I do have a question I think I look through the packet pretty well but is there any equipment that's going to make more noise than what's there or hopefully less noise than what's there um yeah good question the the so the battery C the the the cabinet that's being removed has I think two fans uh to cool the um the radios that are inside it um the computers that are inside it those fans are um like 6 in

057wide and that's going to be removed the and replaced with two smaller cabinets one's the um battery backup that has no noise and the other is a smaller radio cabinet which has smaller uh fans so I don't know the decibel changes but I think it's going to be actually less or di Minimus so you're not going to you're not going to have there's not going to be change there any other questions from the board right um then I think at this time we could um take a vote that is dependent on the final review and um the final review from the third party Consultants how how does that work procedurally though because like who if we're not seeing that like do we say dependent on well I think's satisfied with it not us we would

058be then kind of directing Peter to and we can wait on the vote as long as we're in um you know as long as we're in agreement we can have Peter start the decision process because we still have to have a decision and vote on that decision so if we're comfortable with him starting the decision process and it's just dependent on the third party reviewer saying yep everything everything looks good to him we can expedite that process I I I am comfortable I mean the this's due diligence being done being done in the process and uh if if a final analysis is what's missing then I I don't see any reason why we should not just expedite and just move on meaning start drafting the decision and vote next time well that's what you just

059said right yeah I I think that's the it was just kind of our you know taking are are we all ready to do that that draft an approval decision it's contingent upon the final review and then we'll be ready to vote on it next time I can say for the next meeting I I'm more than capable of getting a draft decision out to the planning board obviously uh you know the Friday before which would be next Friday and then obviously uh I'll continue to work with Greg and Adam and make sure that we get obviously final sign off um and then everyone everything is notated within the final decision uh for a review very to the last kind of cell phone tower applications we've kind of gone through so yep all right General consensus on

060that so we just we'll just proceed in that manner okay so I think at this point we just continue to the next meeting which is the um excuse me I go to look at my phone um 26 you are correct 26 I make a motion that we continue the hearing 400 CER special T-Mobile application to October 26 meeting and second Anna ROV Anna tuski I Marcel I Katherine Jers I Anda kend I so thank you we will see this again on the 26th I do want to request from Peter a little bit more again separate issue but related to this I I think that in light of this mention in the May 2022 letter of um strength loss over the years I think we do need to kind of have an update on what our

061plans are as town to address any strength loss to that tank that we're now aware of whatever that strength loss is I'm happy to have a conversation into that yeah I'm happy so that this board can be responsible because I certainly don't want to not I don't want to not act on that if it's a non-issue I'd love to have a memo from our town folks experts to say oh it's perfectly fine there's no strength loss you don't have to worry about this whatever damage we've done by having this on top of the tank Tower you don't have to worry about if the town takes that position great but until the town does it's on us as planning board members it's becomes our responsibility but so I I don't understand that I mean we don't

062know that there's damage done so we should not say it I don't uh I've read this 2022 letter and it raises my eyebrows a little bit well I read it too it did ra it says that there there were concerns but there's no but there's no uh final it's not structurally damaged right now but by putting things on top for so long we caused enough damage that we needed to remove then why are we removing it well remov it because it's was not designed to carry it but the the letter says that there's every structure is designed with extra capacity for for concy so if Haley Ward opined that it was a good idea to remove it why don't we get Haley W to confirm that there's nothing for us to repair uh I I'm

063well the plan board is not responsible for repairing parts of the Town who who is responsible for for the structure the water department or who structure it's the water the the DPW the Water and Sewer Department okay so I assume they are on top of whatever maintenance Greg and our water and Su Department work work hand inand and and they have a you know they typically would and what I assume and I believe is they have a Capital Improvements plan right about all infrastructure within Town depending if it's a sewer treatment Su Pump Station to water tanks and I know in the next couple years the plan is to paint this tank right and it needs to be done cuz I see it every day as as my as I come to work and I

064think that's one of the major components to make sure that we can maintain and update this tank and I think for the future of this tank and for any infrastructure in the town of Ashland is that we're saying the best option for the town right now is to move T-Mobile off the top and put it on the side and and that's been always my takeaway I'm happy to to reach out to Greg and simple as remembering that we we have jurisdiction over planning including resources we are currently in the middle of a comprehensive plan we have a very important resource called a water tank we should at least make sure to notify our consultant for the comprehensive plan we have a quarter million dollars coming in for a 5year lease we have a resource now

065financially to repair this tank we as a as a planning board have jurisdiction to plan and take care of our resources that I think it's clear I think and I think DPW and Greg already on top of this but we can ask them to report where they great idea so right but I think it's on their court and I I think they're already on top of it but we will we will ask Greg Eldridge about that so that we can know the status of the tank yep okay thank you I'll follow up with him but I will uh we we'll see you in in two weeks and and we'll work together on it and and see everything through awesome thank you thank you appreciate it have a great night all right next on our agenda

066um our second public hearing is um 99 to 49 Homer Avenue site plan and special permit application uh Peter can you just give us a quick update about uh where this is sure so the last time we met on this um the application team who's here joins us via Zoom Mr Attorney Terry Morris I believe their architect Ron bour and also their civil engineer Rick Salvo or on the call so since our last meeting uh the application team met with the design review Comm committee last Thursday night um the the the the the design Review Committee again met last night uh and so they uh very brief uh very swiftly issued their fi their their memo uh this morning which I received which I forward out to everybody so I know toming wasn't the greatest

067um and and I and uh that's just part of the process um however I can let the application team give you a review and obviously the design Review Committee um their report speaks for itself uh in addition uh this morning I also received the gcg report um and so I I spoke with gcg today and I and I had a good conversation with Rick Salvo the civil engineer so at this point we received drc's um report and I believe it's their final report um and we do have our gcg I think there's some outstanding uh engineering items that I that speaking to both gcg and and and Mr Salvo that we just need to kind of tie down um but that's where everything kind of stands tonight and so um please just a note before

068I give it I give the microphone over to the application team um I just want to make a note that um all the material samples have been submitted um and that's what's displayed here on the on the on the on the table so um ra I'm going to take it back okay uh so at this point I'm G to hand it to Trisha yeah so um given that uh and I think all the members are aware of this that we we got two reports just today um one was from the design Review Committee um and as Peter said on their meetings and we also got um a a round of reviews from um from gcg you know and which frankly I haven't even had a chance to open right um as you know both of

069them came late in the day I did I did skim through the design Review Committee but that was all the time I had and I'm sure most if not all of you were in the same boat so my um suggestion tonight is that we um put aside the gcg report for now to we at least have a chance to read through it those tend to be more complex issues that you want to be fully awake to understand um we've already been through the design Review Committee things before so it's a little bit more familiar um and so my recommendation would be that we start going through the design Review Committee um we we we'll let the applicant present the things that the new items that they presented to the design Review Committee if any nothing

070that we've seen before we don't need to see it again um but then really start looking just going through the list of design Review Committee and we get as far as we get this evening looking at those things knowing that again most of us really haven't had a chance to look at it in any depth um to this point any uh feedback on that plan sound like we're go through stff I think it's the blue stuff actually the blue stuff is the design Review Committee notes the red were the initial action items the green what was added by Marcelo and I and then the blue is the kind of final notes so that said now I will turn it over to the applicant knowing that that that is our plan for this evening if you

071have if you have anything you want to add or or ask or requ Quest different than that plan I'm willing to hear it but that's where we're sitting I think no as a matter of fact we received reports as as uh Peter matak said uh today at the same time you did so we really hav't a chance uh to delve into them rather than simply read them C cursorily and uh point out any um things that we think we've already answered um I think it's what we did we approached the design Review Committee with your the markup that you and marchella did um and focused on those issues largely they dealt with Hardscape and Landscaping because as we went through your markup there were several places where you indicated that was the purview of the

072uh design Review Committee and we focused on that uh we focused on the treatment of the sidewalk um the so-called plazas in front of each of the buildings and then of course we we finished up with the actual treatment of the facades themselves and materials uh I have read the the DRC report and I think that perhaps that would be the best uh document to uh since you you the members may not have had the opportunity to go through it perhaps we could put that up on the screen and use that as a template and go through each one and tell you what yeah actually I think we have we all have it in front of us so I think the best thing would be to do to put is to put up the drawings

073so that we can um you know okay you know the latest drawings that we can you know if we're looking at the plan or the elevation we actually have that large in front of us uh Ron who oh who's putting there we go well perhaps one of the most just as an introductory remark Madam chair one of the most significant um changes to the look of the building uh as you know at the last meeting the most significant change was to the site plan itself where we um changed the uh entry an exit point to oneway traffic in off of Homer and out onto Alden um the most uh obvious Vis physical change to the facades was the um was the we picked up on the suggestion that the DRC made that they felt that

074the the the commercial facades that uh typify the the first floor um in three of the buildings that project um forward on Homer Street we had added uh we had um used brick in the recessed areas I'm hope I'm not stealing uh my colleague Ron's Thunder and the two buildings at the end as you will see um we had a brick inlay and they had suggested that we use a common approach or a uniform approach uh to the to the front uh first story facades and and I and we've we've agreed to do that I'm not sure whether Ron has had a chance to change that or not but uh I just point that out as one of the more obvious changes Ron are you ready yes so I think sure yes so I think

075the first point if we're following the design Review Committee document the first point on page 2117 is about the front um the the plaza spaces in front so if we can look at a plan of the plaza spaces I think there's some a rendered plan yeah so um it so um it seems like there was a discussion so I just want to clarify this to the planning board it says that they're noting on record that these spaces should should continue to be reviewed throughout the pro project development process such as flexibility is provided for use of undefined tenants and for the tenants and for the community so do you want to just um review with that discussion was it sounds like since we don't know what the tenants are going to be we don't know

076if tables out in front of those little areas are appropriate or if a or some or if something else is appropriate out in front of those entrances is that is that is my understanding on that correct no that that is correct okay uh which is sort of that discussion we've been having back and forth where we don't know what the tenants are is very difficult so the best we can do is provide a space that is adaptable and U as you can see here there are really four different types if you go from left to right uh so on the far left you'll see that it's just an entry sequence uh there could be benches bike racks that type of thing but really it's not suited for seating uh the second Bay from the left

077I've indicated bike racks and seating and an open Plaza which which the um design Review Committee had requested initially to widen that and make it um a little more open um the third Bay uh introduces uh some some plantings to separate the entrance in the in the from the plaza to the sidewalk and uh has benches and and um and bicycle racks and the far right is the entrance into the U residential lobby as well as side doors for some of those commercial spaces um so from our discussion um and I think what's been marked up on the plan is that they indicated that the third Bay over with the uh with the tree in the in the center in the well is what they'd like to see presented in the other um Bay to

078the left as well and to uh recess the uh benches um into the landscape slightly um so that we introduce benches there as well it does still give us that opportunity for Flex space where there would be sufficient space on either one of those if if one was a a deli and the other one was retail space for example example uh we could have uh tables you know on either one of those bays and I think it would work out well so it sort of accomplishes that goal of of having a flexible space that can accommodate the tenants whoever they be um another major discussion we had was about Landscaping so we spent a significant amount of time talking about the plantings and they had made suggestions which they've indicated in this document uh we

079have not had a chance to update that yet but um Julie and I will work on that and um that will be sort of that final um discussion about the Landscaping hopefully so um I think we we'll meet we'll meet what they what their intent is and and I think that should be fine with that Ron Ron if I could interject one thing one of the things in discussing the plazas so to speak and the introduction of a a tree in uh in the the left hand side there was also discussion of where we locate uh bicycle uh racks bicycle facilities and I think at the end of the discussion there was pretty much agreement that they would be located just uh back of sidewalk uh rather than closer to the buildings um and uh

080so this doesn't show on this plan but it it's something that I think uh would enter into the discussion any final discussion about how we treat the area these PL these spaces that is correct right any so I I think the general point the design Review Committee is saying I believe is that there's going to be some flexibility in these spaces to accommodate different types of tenants and that would be appropriate as we have no idea what the program would be going into these spaces to me that seems very logical and I would say that maybe if there's a a a major change from the final site plan submitted that that might need to go in front back in front of the planning board but otherwise we assume that there's going to be some flexibility

081benches versus tables versus you know whatever else might be out there I mean I took it a little bit differently I don't think it's just about tenants it's just about the community and so I I would I don't I was not there so the applicant could correct me but I took that comment to mean kind of both usage not just tenants and so if you have bike cracks a little bit closer to the road I believe there was some prior discussion at another meeting we had that the trail may not be that far away um part of what we're thinking about here is how this space creates a sense of community um how it might be utilized people coming and going to these businesses sure are tenants but there also might be community members going

082to school or walking home or walking to the post office and this could be a space that allows that communal feel as well um and it brings to mind um I had a recent trip in Maine where there are apartment buildings that essentially have public public space integrated so that you can enter these types of spaces and there might be like the one I'm thinking of um in Maine had a like a chair like a that represented that town and you could like sit in the chair and take a picture across from a from the Waterfront of you know the little town name behind you kind of deal so like you could in theory Envision more of a community presence in some of these spaces relative to the historic train station or some some kind

083of easement if you will for public space into these these areas so that's kind of how I took that comment because it doesn't just mention tenants so how does that differ from flexible spaces as long as we recognize it's not just about tenant use it's also about thinking about this as a potential Public public space in part so I I the flexibility I like but I also we also the applicant mentioned some specifics so like I don't want to lose track of those I think we we all agree on bike racks we fought hard for bike racks sometimes and didn't get them I think bike racks come later in the document it probably does but but I guess it's related to those spaces like I would go bike racks yes toward the road yes or

084no it's a board decision tree and the other one yes or no like just to get through what was said because we're losing trail of that if we don't yeah no I I understand I just know that both the tree and the bike rcks are later in this document they are you're right um I guess and I don't want to take this way off track but I we like green space but is that like landscaped meaning not usable Green Space because that seems like a missed opportunity on the public feel and usable do does anyone know I don't and I I yeah I don't know where the balance I mean that maybe it's a question for the applicant the balance between Paving versus planting um gr yeah versus right because there could be plantings that

085still make it usable public space right for there could be we've been trying to activate these spaces right having events and I'm not asking them to have events that's not my point we're leaving we are trying hard to leave possibilities so if that becomes a planting that maybe hopefully looks nice but is not usable maybe that's a missed opportunity but looking nice is also part of activating yeah but I think we can get both I think it's kind of a matter of proportions yeah that um Can can they please yeah can the engineer confirm what what what is the these these green areas and these rendering that shows as little circles on the plan what what are those is that grass or is that some general low planting what those are those those are little

086plantings so we we did not um we did not look at this space at as lawn or something that is really um suited for the public to go on and lay down rest you know you know whatever that but but was this part of the discussion on planting with the design Review Committee as far as as far as using that space for public use no that was no no no meaning that you show a planting plan and you guys discuss planting right as part of what we asked to review with you correct so these was agreed we have separate landscape plan that actually flushes this out oh okay yeah there we go and this is um so I'm going to go to the next page which shows what these plants actually look like but um

087so these are the types of plantings we were looking at for these spaces so if you look at if you look at this uh r r romatic I'm butchering the word but um you know we were looking at having those spaces be occupied with these types of plants um spaced appropriately apart but not really creating public spaces within them yeah no I I see the point and I understand what kti is is is mentioning I'm just saying that I I personally don't feel like we need to micromanage that point to that level I think that if the decision from the proponent is to plan things and have some really nice front which creates a little bit of a recess a little you know psychological privacy from a street that is very close to to the

088development I'll be fine with that and looks like the design Review Committee did not object to it so I I I I would be fine with going along with what has been discussed with them we seem to talk a lot lot about the public realm and kind of that connection reality of this is there's a little bit of rigidity because of the size of the area that is really the landscape area so when we talk about access to public and have a bike rack so there's going to be larger circulation that we need to really consider and when you start to put those things in on paper this is really kind of just a landscape area it's not really a place where we call it pocket park it's sounds as if it's like acres of

089land but it is really not it is a patch of landscape in front of a building and it would be really interesting to see that dynamics of people wanting to sit in front of a building and feel like it is a community space it's not that deep so I think we have to really look at it from the scale point of view and be really I don't know if he can get any more creative but I think the landscape is very minimal to really say this is a public realm and kind of the interaction I don't think that's how you're going to pan out so the only thing I can think of creatively that's not massive and not disturbing is maybe a couple of benches that are kind of open to the public so I

090would imagine our community is getting older ideally we have more walking in our community we're trying to create more of a sidewalk Community um you know I can see Elders walking to the post office coming by this space and having a place to sit down um that's kind of what I'm envisioning as a creative kind of component where the public could maybe have two or three benches to sort of enjoy this this what seems to be a pretty space that you're trying to create in in earlier presentations I did have benches facing the sidewalk and and they were um I believe they were not really acceptable they but I'm I'm not sure that that's what Anna is saying because I would agree sitting there looking at a street is I would not want to sit

091there but but the way they're being right now what you what I think what you what I understood you're saying in terms of the spirit of yeah is like if I see this drawing and you know close to the center to the right on that Plaza there's benches kind of next to the plants and I heard that they're going to be now a little more embedded on into the planting seems nice um that you you you could see more you could see it also on the other side yeah or you can be at the side of the trees so you're looking towards the tree but you could face like other bench so you can actually talk to somebody as opposed to facing the car exactly so like where the trees are if you're going to

092have two areas with trees you could have benches on each side facing in so that the trees in the middle essentially you can you can choose to look to your side and look towards um the old train station or across towards the farmers market or you could be looking at one another for a moment um and it but that's how that one is working right the one with the tree with there right so this is this is that small pocket park we created as um as you enter the site from from the corner of Homer um and it was it was designed as a um a response to wanting to acknowledge the train station um but not copy it so um you know as you can see uh what I did was I took the

093textures off the wall and and turn the colors not the um not the not the physical roughness of the stone but use that patterning and the colors in the paving uh have have several benches limited plantings for a little bit of enclosure and then uh you can see on the right side um a uh a small uh roofed uh area over that bench uh that carries that vocabulary of that train station um I think that was a good compromise to tying uh one side of the street to the other as well as providing a public space that is in an appropriate location so that it is someplace where you can go and you can read the paper or you can you can relax you're you're seeing the street you've got uh some enclosure from the

094building and you have uh a direct correlation to the training station across the street um so we you know we did consciously provide that space and I I think that's the appropriate location for it I find a rendering that shows it I mean I I I for one like that space there and I guess I'm suggesting a few more maybe the same type of benches towards that front where you have the nice two trees that you're adding so that you have that element both on the side pocket park but also a little bit in the front the design Review Committee mentioned some kind of mural where would that be so that's at the pocket park but in the the cheek wall of the this wall if you can see my cursor with my little hand

095moving yeah so aren't there already aren't there already benches on either side of that tree on the drawing that you were just showing if we go back to the the plan we were looking at right there right there I see I see bench seating on the opposite sides of the tree is benches so this this the one y so and the and maybe it's the best fit in those two big areas because they have more space yeah that's exactly what Anna was suggesting I didn't realize those were bunches I thought that was just some kind of color thank you uh but yeah those are benches I think that's great and I think you mentioned and I believe the design Review Committee like I said later in this document um suggested adding that a tree just

096like that one to the other large Plaza and so if we just repli replicate then we have four benches which should be plenty especially if you have an ice cream shop or something where it's not the pocket part so there will be plenty to choose from yeah that they can be used by the businesses and by the occasional person who's walking around you know yeah myt was also to add benches into the Landscaping here sure on this far left I don't think we portion I don't think it would hurt to have benches I think we will invite I yeah I do think you can overdo it though like I don't think I don't think you have to have every Plaza those two that are the widest those two that are the widest with some tree

097and benches I think you can just limit at that that would be more than that sufficient if the two widest locations which I like I said I think is already in the document have that Center tree and the two benches which you already have on those two widest locations and then the other ones I think stay they're smaller and they stay more flexible depending on what maybe it's just a sidewalk into the entry on on those sounds you use those opportunities of those Furniture elements to be a little more organic than rigid so maybe it's a little more built into the landscape and maybe that will soften the overall look and feel versus a little bit rigidity I think um right now it feels obviously for rendering purpose you have it as a Furniture piece

098but I think it needs that little finessing of that organic feel that that street automatically gives you uh we just need to bring that into that landscape I mean you you do realize you're going to have a lot of dogs on this on this thing right so that's going to soften it up pretty quick dogs B chair you're going to have a lot activ are we ready to go on to the next item I think we've covered this one there probably several others that are coming so the next item um and we may be coming back to this diagram but I'd like to kind of keep going in order on page three of 17 they're talking actually about the um the materiality now it says in here I I think we were that originally you

099presented four different material pallet options and then and I I think we expected that you were going to maybe present more than one but you presented one one option or a suggested option yes yes so so and I think we have those colors before us okay um upon initial review uh let's see so the um the building recesses it says Pearl gray and gray slate is that the where is it no so um part of my next task from that meeting is to upgrade to the colors that you have in front of you uh because the applicant um selected those colors but I had already done the renderings uming okay so the the textures and the materials will be this as shown here the colors will be uh as you see them in your in

100front of you on the desk are those so so so what we have in front of us are khaki Brown and Timber bark yeah which are not on this that's not what this is recommended do we have Pearl gray and gray I have Pearl gray which is this and then this is gray slate and where would those go on this rendering I know the rendering is not accurate to the color scheme but where where would we imagine it to does it say there on t uh building re Rec recesses where is that in the Deep Parts the Deep Parts okay so this so that part right there yes okay so we have to like pretend right yeah actually it says Okay so notes say cladding reviewed renderings are cool gray tones while submitted samples are

101beige tan upon initial review cool gray as rendered was preferred as a contrast to the warmth of the brick cool gray so that's what they mean by Pearl gray and gray sleeve so they're considering that to be cool gray yeah so they're looking it sounds to me like design Review Committee likes the cool colors versus the warm colors okay isn't that contradicting with the train station so so what you see in your left hand would be the recess and the right would be the um the darker shingle and cab that you see I so and there was also discussion about the brick and using the same brick that and that's probably further in the document but uh using the same brick that you're using for your downtown and using that as our Paving p pattern

102um for the for the uh the borders and then on the face of the building where there's brick so we would carry that vocabulary from downtown onto the building yeah so I think I think it's going to be impossible for us to review this in terms of words and imagining yeah it's hard we're not that imaginative and while we know that while we know that it's impossible to get the rendering to match the materials that's just not possible um but we can try to get them as close as as close as you can like for instance the brick shown on there is a very warm yellowish brick and here we have a red brick which is more indicative of the sidewalks and stuff downtown and so I'm not sure which one so what I'm confused

103about the whole thing right we we worked hard to say these are Under design review perview they came back with a recommendation so it sounds like I don't know if this board agrees with the record recomendation or not me personally I am going with what the board said the um design review what isn't clear to me is if the applicant says I don't want to do that is the applicant saying that's a good point that's what I have is the applicant saying that I don't know I can't tell from this whole conversation that's why I'd like to get out of the way so question to the applicant you were given recommendations and I know that you just got this today the same as us right um but do you you don't you don't you're not

104opposed to trying the recommended colors as given on the facade um no I'm not um I can't speak for Charlie but um one thing that came out of that meeting was the request about matching the brick from the downtown so that R this rendering was uh previous to that so that that discussion resulted as a result of this rendering so that's where they [Music] said so that red brick would be you know would be replacing the brick that I have shown on those renderings okay and I think the and Marcel correct me if I'm wrong I think that recommendation about looking at the brick had to do with continuing the street materials and sidewalk materials that's what we've always said on the plane of the street and sidewalk not necessarily on the buildings that corrector

105I'm confused about that yeah so that continuing the downtown work the sidewalk was always intended on the planning board's point of view to be on the plane of the sidewalk not on the plane of the buildings so where does it say uh does the applicant know where in the design review document it talks about the the town colors continuing but I think can I just go back so we're on 3 of 17 B materials and textures 1b1 1052 23 yeah what what it seems like is the applicant is will go back and make as best they can renderings what I think we have to do though is that are we are we agreeing with the recommendations of design review to tell them yes or no that's where I'm still confused well I think the thing

106is since we have no visual about what those you know it like this doesn't seem totally the image that we're seeing right now now doesn't seem totally updated with what the paper says so we shouldn't have to Envision whether we look whether we agree with it or not I no I understand that part I'm saying agree that we want them to do that is probably a better way to say that we want them to come back with a rendering that matches what was recommendations of the design so that we could make a that's what I'm asking are we asking but but then there's another wrinkle because the the way I'm reading this it says uh what was I uh we uh we prefer cont the warm of the brick okay upon initial review cool gray

107as rendered is preferred as a contrast to the warmth of the brick so as rendered are we referring to the drawing that we have here on the screen when that discussion took place no I do we don't I don't so what does as rendered mean I agree with Marcelo that they're saying as rendered they believe I believe they're saying that as the rendering looks the closest match is Pearl gray and that and that's exactly and it's preferred over what was submitted which was the Khaki Brown correct that's the way I read it it's the way I see it and and the way I read this rendering of course the rendering is not perfect and it's impossible to do a perfect rendition of of of reality but it seems to me that the the overall palette

108and contrast accents that this rendering shows was well received I personally happen to like it so I'm not opposed to it either so if that is a recommendation I I personally will be happy to to go with it but I don't know if we are kind of making a stor a glass of water here but no so so you're saying that um I agree you're saying that the when we look at the image which we like we seem to like those Grays are more like the ones that the design Review Committee the Pearl gray and GL GRC slate they are not like the brown Grays or exactly or or even if it's even if it's a little closer to it that's that's fine but can you put the r in the on the screen the

109rendering the first drawing where you see it from the street and you see all the the complex there you go here so that this is probably what was a little it looks a little different than the other I guess because of the sun where the sun of the rendering is this one looks a little more brownish in general but but the scheme seems seems pretty good to me it seems you know the the trim work and and and the the cloud board location the shingle locations uh and if it goes on the on on on on the gray tones I will be just fine saying yeah okay and what color is the bricks eye what what color is the brick supposed to be like on these on the renderings it looks kind of like a

110yellow brick and here we have screen the color you know it depends on what your your screen is set to but on page nine is where they reference the material uh so material one recommendation brick matching downtown renovation project at the ground surfaces and similar color brick at the wall so they're asking us to put it on the building and as well as as into the plazas so we have a border on the plazas so that would be um that brick I'm not sure it's the intent that your sidewalks will be brick in that area I think the confusion is also because further down the same page three there is a reference to 21 Main style which has black frames window frames and that brick so it feels like we are trying to do something

111what 21 Main is in a different location but I think this this particular campus should really connect to the train station right it has nothing to do with 21 Main so if you change all the window frames to all black and that brick it changes the whole context of what we're looking at here I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve here haven't we seen always the frames black frames on these windows I think we have I don't think that has changed yeah what's what's deceptive in these oh the trim you mean the trim sorry yeah so I I remember some discussion that we didn't want to be like too to replicating the train station um I kind of respect the the look if you will of that black trim in the sense that yeah

112we don't have Main Street project anymore but it's not that far from some of the things this board seems to like if you will so I think their design review is trying to give us something that we seem to appreciate yeah and in general I would say I will only add that it looks like the design review was appreciative of the work the design work that that is shown here so in general I would say I would be very comfortable with going with what the architect and the designer that envisioned this project selects as as the best pet I think going towards the great seems fine to me if they want it a little warmer I'll be fine with that too I'm noticing even a difference in the screens this looks much cooler yeah if

113you look here that's true that's a littley a lot yellower scre that's a little freaky yeah Ron can you confirm the samples that you submitted was the rendering kind of based out of those colors or even I know it's hard to match I SC material and then I kicked it like with an eye dropper okay so it's it's very difficult with computer screens because everyone's frequency and you know they just little nuances to them that so your design intent was a warmer palette not a cooler palette is that that was my that's my intent and then the owner um where would that be you know also um had his ideas with with those cooler color the warmer colors thank you we didn't coordinate the two together for that meeting so like would it be possible

114for us to maybe like label these things like a through Z and like put put letters up there so like we can connect the dots as to what goes where because I'm not a little I'm not getting it okay so like I think maybe it would be helpful to have the applicant in person next time so that we can more quickly identify or maybe a field trip with design RW team okay but what are we looking at there's no building oh pause it right there okay okay so just just just so we have this clear according to what's in the the what's in the report um so there's three Shades of Gray that we're talking about on the very top in the triangles right on the very top in the triangles where it looks like

115shingles okay that is what they were talking about as being night gray this is night gray right in the middle band there are some planes that are closer to us those are shown darker those are the gray slate so they're a middle gray just like on the drawing it's a middle gray okay right and then the ones that are recessed but at the same level they're showing as a pearl gray it's not bad so these are the renderings provided and I think these are the actual colors that the design Review Committee picked out these three Grays yeah if those are the three Grays I'm I'm happy with that piece of it yeah and I think to marcelo's point what design review is saying is that these match this better than these which kind of match

116this better right those those samples are a little more brown gray than cool gray and these I love those are and my only question would that be about the brick yeah the brick is which which could be fine because it does match the street but that's not the brick that's being shown on the rendering this on the rendering it's it's it's yellow brick and this is red brick so that's the only um thing I would say is if we can get that yellow orange brick changed more to the one near the entrance yeah the entrance CU I don't think that's this to me that's not a red brick what more brick are is that brick that we're looking at I think the brick is the brick is just like Trisha said it's a lot rder

117yeah the r is that brick what we have on our street would have apparently yes apparently so now I get I'm just trying to clear because we mixed up those two and I want well I think originally I believe and Marcel have to come because I think this was his originally comment in continuing the street materials we were talking about continuing like don't switch from Red Brick downtown to gray brick or yellow brick on the ground at this location here I think they did also take it up onto the wall which I'm not opposed to I just don't think the rendering shows that color even close something about the building we've acknowledged that yeah is applicant able to hear us at all yeah we have we have acknowledged what you're saying and I think Ron

118has made it clear that the brick that he's shown is not what we're proposing now we're proposing what the DRC had recommended and that and what you're talking about which is a redder brick yeah that it's fine I think we're all just catching up yeah to deep to Deepa point I think we should talk about deepa's point because she's saying should we maybe rethink and somehow connect to the the train station I feel this Palace is way too contemporary we are having trouble hearing you we can hear the chair very well but not the members I feel like the um no offense to the design review but the palette that suggested trying to bring colors from the rendering is way too contemporary for that um environment it feels like the palette that was suggested by

119the design team is picking up some of that connection to that Railway that train station it's it's not exactly copying it but it's definitely picking up those tones warm tones and I think um if I it was me I would take these samples to exact location and really see what these Grays are doing because we also have warm light here and it's really hard when you look at different screens and how these are how these get rendered um it feels like that palette to me first talked to be mentally connected to that environment and that feels way too contemporary um um to me at least because that has lots of Blues in it versus that um train station which is very very warm palette I mean now that I'm hearing Deepa I kind of agree

120that I like this because I like I like it but I do think there's some value to now I get what you're saying to kind of going for a field trip and actually seeing and thinking about how this pette against that palette will will look that's not a bad concept to sort of do I'm fairly sure in another meeting though we talked about separating ourselves from the train station and not using it as a pallet that it didn't have to you know that we were looking for this building to be more contemporary less less ornament less decorative it has still has a lot of ornament on it and so station yeah so I feel like our discourse we're flip-flopping a bit on on the discourse I don't know if you want to match exactly what's

121there what I'm trying to say is you're going to have two buildings on either side the mass of this with kind of that com temporary color is going to take your attention totally of that train station which could be the intent but it's going to look like two different buildings and the new building is definitely going to stand out in that environment it's it doesn't have to speak to one another 100% like you don't want to color match what that stone is but I think there has to be some visual balance between the two sides you don't want a contemporary building on one side and something that shows kind of um an age of the building fuel but but yeah I I think that's a legitimate way way to see it I I personally think

122that this is a contemporary building because it is from the 21st century sure and and contrasting is not necessarily disrespectful and and uh I think uh what I like and and of course you could see it both ways right what what what I think the approach that that I heard was um respecting and following the downtown so it's it's more like a more holistic way of matching the context and then using some of the of the pattern of the station in some of the detailing that's across the street so it is kind of um like um um like a like a nostalgic reference by using some of the materials but not a direct like oh you look Brown then I'm Brown you know it's more contrasting which you and I think it could work both

123ways you know so I I totally get what you're saying yeah I think trying to match that pattern will get lost because of the scale of this Building compared to that train station and I think how irrespec how hard we try that trying to take that queue from that building will get lost just because of the scale of this building it's possible but how strongly would you like to see them connected how how how direct I don't know if I want to see it connected like I definitely don't want things to be color matched but at least many of times like to me mentally I feel like this is what's going to catch my attention if that may be the intent and the whole idea of that environmental context if you will is going to

124get lost somehow I I I I I I get it I I I think I I think the only thing I would say is like right now what what detracts from the station is a is a very disorganized curb card with Street mall and my houses and there's no order there I think this is going to create a scale a pedestrian scale and a wall a street streetcape and a curb appeal that actually would benefit actually wanting to be there and sit in the bench and and then look at the stage I I would I would say that I I can see it both ways but after listening to you guys I I don't think this is as severely industrial or modern as we are perceiving it um I personally would be comfortable with this

125and I'm not too concerned um if I could if I could um put my two cents in please I think we have consider the materiality where this is a stone building with a um you know large overhang uh uh hip roof and it it is its own entity I mean it's its own vocabulary it's its own architecture uh that's what he was famous for ex and we we we've you know kind of chosen to acknowledge it with having uh directly across from it a seating area that has a little bit of that vocabulary both in the materiality and colors um as well as creating uh you know a location where you can enjoy the train station you're looking dead dead set against it uh across the street and then the building itself is not is

126not Stone it's it's a wood building Grays are not you know it's not a contemporary color they've been around for hundreds of years um the vocabulary of the of the lower level retail uh hearkens back to an earlier time so we're kind of you know we're kind of acknowledging the time period um but it is a different building totally different materiality you know I would suggest because you're going through this exercise anyway that um that we just put together two complete color palettes they're almost here right this one has three Shades of Cool Gray that one seems to have two shades of warm gray um there there was a Driftwood shingle picked out I think I remember that you know that might go with one palette there might be a different shingle that goes with

127another palette we should get the fullsize shingle sample um and then the bricks you know if this is the brick we want to use because it relates to the downtown then we'd be able to see which of the Grays best match this brick which we want to use you know and then we can kind of we should have two different renderings one that you force into at least in the printing you force into looking warm one that you force into looking cool when it's printed um and and then we can look at those two pettes I think there's two good options here I don't really think there's a wrong answer frankly um but and it takes just a little B more homework to have okay here's option one here's option two which one is it

128you know so otherwise I think we're going to go back and forth all and I follow up with um The Brick so I get what you're saying this is on page 9 of 17 material one the brick matching the downtown and also on the wall which is what Trish just said for rendering material too is pretty important they the design review adomant said that's unacceptable so I would agree if that's that block Peter sitting s right near Peter the gray paper so I think that's important to give feedback to the applicant on material to recommendation on page nine of 17 yeah I mean that to me is very gray versus a a worm uh I think they were more if you read through that it's more than the color it's sort of the um Quality

129and the texture oh so this that's for the that's for the ground yes okay it's for the plazas right okay that's for the plazas if the if the side walk so so you'd see both red and gray on the ground one is kind of a field and one is kind of a path or a border is that right that's correct ises that yeah yeah so I again I'm just trying to keep it concrete they said stake in the ground samples concrete paper is unacceptable recommended Granite Natural Stone paper matching the color I again personally agree with that and I think the board should decide and give direction to the applicant and this is where it will complement the train station so I think that's that's a good a good compromise of something so how do

130do we want to go about this I mean there's a lot in here that the applicant hasn't really approved or gotten through on could I ask AET maybe Peter can answer this um is the intent that those sidewalks will be brick Peter or is it not part of that scope so that those sidewalks over there are I believe concrete yeah I mean it's just the decorative things it's the brick band matching the downtown I think I think that might be what they're thinking there's a band of brick on the downtown new downtown sidewalks yeah correct but I think as you go around Pizza mine it changes yeah it changes because that sidewalk becomes so narrow I would have to I would have to go out there and take a look I think you're right because

131in front of the Town Hall here you have the concrete and then when there's extra space where the light poles are the infield that with brick correct like an an extra layer yep and then some areas in the down well over near the library there is a strip of four bricks well I would say on the on the opposite side of town hall between the train obviously to the left and right of the train near the near the Veterans Memorial I believe it's four brick I think that strip is four bricks wide and I think that's what's kind of carried throughout except what Marcelo is stating is where there's a street tree there's extra room there plantings the brick expands to much larger much greater area I think in this area that we're talking about

132over here opposite of the train station because of the existing buildings and the sidewalk size I don't know if there is a brick banding of of of if there a brick banding exists or is it two bricks or four bricks I would have to walk over but I think it's still kind of cool to have the sprinkle of brick throughout Ashland like if if that is what design review is intending to do to kind of create this visual ual that you're an Ashland there's a little bit of this brick in different places I'm all for it that's not a bad visual to create for downtown Ashland I don't disagree so again I think that I think we're it's it's coming up with you know originally we started with hey there's four options but I think

133we're just down to two color options one is more warm and one is more cool the cool option may use the red brick that we see in the sidewalks the warm option may use a slightly warmer brick as in the train station and I see those options I think coming out of this text but it's a little it's hard to read about color in text right versus seeing a picture with sorry with arrows saying this is this color that's this color so I think that's what again no no um know no criticism of of the applicant you just got this today too but we can put together these two these two options which were basically the same except for the warm cool color palette and so we'd have two palettes next time and see which

134one we but material to recommendation is more than color it's m it's materials it is but it's a p you know it's a you know so if we go back to the paving so there's two right in even in that there's two different pavers there there's right the smaller scale p and the bigger scale P that's in the pocket park but see right so right so I I also have the same thing on the um exactly so you have two material you always have two materials and I assume one is always kind of the gray and one is this other color is it a warmer brick or is it a warmer paper or is it a cooler paper but and I guess going back to the other discussion so what what's being created here is

135some sort of um a brick threshold between the road and the project and once you cross onto the project it changes to those large papers over there right it that yeah in the curve of the sidewalk yeah and it might have a almost looks like it has a little border all the way around or that color is being used but does that does that sound like a a Next Step so we can move on from it doesn't sound like we're going to get to a decision exactly on color today cuz we don't have the the stuff in front of us visually and um and like I said we just all received this today so I mean the one thing I'll say is I I maybe a way to compromise towards what deep is saying and

136towards what some of us seem to like the cooler colors on the building is maybe the the pallet on the ground should be more warm towards the towards the train station so the train station is almost like spilling into the building but the building is completely cooler right so there could be that kind of that balance balance so so we could see it on those updated rending the options option cool with warm warm with cool warm with warm I guess these these rendering right here that shows the plan could be also replicated with the two options right with a warm option and a cool option yeah and and and the other one that shows the the building and I think with that we should be in good shape too yeah so if we can just

137look at it with like this rendering and the one where it's it's an enlarged flat surface and if we can just have those two drawings one with the cool palette and one with a warm palet and then we can look at it can can I make a recommendation because I think also to push this forward is that the applicant like assume this was gcg and they give a response because we're some of these things we are absolutely not talking the same thing you guys are getting stuck on color when it's talking about quality materials on material on material recommendation two I don't see color I see quality of materials and that's what spoke to me about what the design review wrote so I think that we're never going to get unless we get the applicant

138saying I get it yes I'm going to get some better materials and I'll work on the colors or whatever I think they're going to have to because this is I thought it would be easier but I see that it's not without that um which which paragraph are you on ke um 9 of 17 the very top thing material to recommendation I mean it sounds like design review is not quite confident yet in the materials no they just one Granite instead of concrete yeah so what's the next step in this are we going to have the applicant kind of go through and see what they agree or disagree with it sounds like uh Charlie hasn't had a chance to look at this either so there's no like definitive commitment yet right correct this was submitted to

139the applicant today yeah so I I think we have we don't have a we don't have anything finalized but we have enough information to pursue this to the next step I think right so maybe we just want to go on and see if there's anything see what other things we can kind of help cherry pick out of this list that may be low hanging fruit well and and that's what I saying marking up like the 1 G3 recommend options presented for Planters seaing act as a buffer from the street that that was a clear yes I believe from the so I'm sorry Kate what page that's page N9 of 17 still and I'm just saying that's a low hanging fruit I believe everyone agreed and liked it move on yes and the applicants say yes

140see drwing whatever when they when they finish right so it's all clear cuz the there's a lot of stuff here and I think that's the only way to you're talking with the bottom comment correct the 1G do3 I believe that's a yes they agreed the the board agreed right but yeah that's what I'm saying to keep moving through ask the applicant to mark up and then reference a drawing when they have it so Kate is recommending that the applicant review the design review documents and tell us if they agree or disagree and where R get through this yeah but there's some that we already we all agree with which is what Kate is saying so that we can just Che I already wrote yes but I so next the only other one what we talk

141about the colors and the materials we we already agree with what the next step I feel like we skip page five like how did we get to page nine I feel like we skipped because we got talking about materials okay okay so page five talks about the gcg percentage for multif family housing yeah those are with the EV charges again it's a note but it's not really in their purview five was good go to so then seven the mural we talked about that little I don't think anyone had any do people like the mural concept yeah I mean we already have one mural in would the cave that that has to be commissioned by the town and yeah same language as Starbucks same as right yeah I think it we'll see what the Starbucks process

142does you know see if you like it is the applicant okay with the mural or giving the town an easen to put up a mural it's really up to the applicant requ question to the applicant but that's what I'm saying they can they can mark this up we so they can hear us we said we like it they can mark this up and say no way Merl or yes will entertain E's move on can we just be clear on the mural we can't require it it has to be negotiated no no we we can require the the permission to install a mural in the future we can't require it I don't think that's how we did it with Starbucks we negotiated we asked them if they were willing to do it and they said yes

143that's say so so they're hearing us saying yes we support the design review request they're going to go and we'll hear their their feedback yeah um so the next one recommended provided S stand interpretive historic mural on the pocket park that's that's related I guess that's the bureau that we just discussed yeah um so then signage yeah so signage location as indicated is acceptable so bonts and colors of signage shall be deferred and reviewed prior to occupancy signage guidelines study is underway by whom um that took me by I I have no knowledge because I've heard that the S review was interested in signage at some point some discuss I don't know if this is um can you can can you confirm are you is your team studying the signage or what what what happened

144with this discussion with the sign Review Committee um I'm just trying to think back so what we did we presented the locations for the signage where it says retail signage you know around the building didn't didn't didn't deal with font or or anything like that just indicated location and they were fine with that um the signage guidelines study is underway I'm not quite sure what that means but but the way this is written if the board agrees we just put a condition you can't put up a sign until you come back to the board for approval yeah I mean um we've done that in the past and it's been painful and not fun to have to deal with imagine it's not yeah it's not to have to deal with these type of decisions a year

145L maybe half of us won't be here the next time we you know so it's it's like it's kind of something we should make a decision now so then we need a proposal so then they need to give us a proposal that's right so then that's the direction to again they mark it up they're going to come back with drawing whatever is our propos yeah I I think that that's that's fair to just ask for a sample kind of um on hypothetical business and put the sign how it would look I like the fact that it's being illuminated externally illuminated we don't want any self illuminated science or anything that move anything it should be a little a downtime requires a certain type of more graceful lettering and materials who can see it so if

146you can do a um an enlarged view of the signage showing the goose neck lighting maybe and the and the sign and what color the letters are and you know yeah the enlarge the enlarged rendering here I mean do we want to see it here or you think like a sample sign yeah just like an exp could be in a drawing I mean not not actually produce a sign right but yes you know so there's you know on their drawing they're zooming in and like you know right now the the letters are white I doubt they'll be I doubt they're proposing white letters on but that's the thing say they should be either bronze or they should be black or they there's something that or if match around the town or if there's photographic examples

147of real signs it's going to look like this we're going to match this style of sign right it can help it would be it would be great I think to assign an approved material for the L bettering if if we see whatever's been done whatever in the town like they did with this historical signage throughout M it would be good that all the businesses as we move forward the signage there's a downtown feel of consistency of you know maybe two metals or something like that yeah so in other words you don't have to reinvent the wheel on the signage just show us what you're thinking something that maybe goes along with other things that are downtown do we have anything historic in in Ashlin as far as signage consistency or anything that we have already

148I I I hope that that's the study that's underway because the design Review Committee one of the task that we that we all thought throughout our discussions is that that would be a good Endeavor can we ask them if they're doing that why don't we reach out to them and ask them what this is all about so we wouldn't have to be discussing this it would be you know there's a signage rule yeah or if anything yeah I mean worst hopefully like worst case scenario that signage will match new guidelines as put forth but I just don't when will that happen so for now I think seen the the the uh properly rendered not white letters but properly rendered with the right font size that is expected and and then we can say okay we

149like it or not change it the um an 8 of 171g do1 I think that's planting so I think that's just the applicant say yes or no I think that's um I'm sorry you're on page eight now um oh right turns to nine um 1-g do1 and it's just about planting so I think they're going to say yes or no right that we yeah basically get rid of lawn and get rid of grass things that has to be mowed so are we in page 10 now the B we're still on the bottom of nine I think but it's probably pver so we're good we can move on 10 offside snow this is yeah snow storage so [Music] um yeah that keeps going back it was originally offsite then the last tech review I think they

150said onsite and I think that's why design reiew picked it up and it looks like the current applicant intent is on site so then we would want details of that it says along the landscape b along homer which doesn't seem like a good idea agree yeah I mean um so question to the applicant what is the current plan for snow storage um we've we've always said that it would be removed I know there was a comment in there from the DIC saying that we had retracted that but that's not the case okay the only the only area we need for if if there's more snow on the ground then can be accommodated uh you know on site it will be removed um you know one or two inch snowfalls don't require removal you simply plow

151it and it's off to the side of the road um so it's still our plan to remove any any uh significant snowfall will result in it being removed from the site okay good all right um that was easy number 11 11 now uh 10 yes page 11 still 10 that's sounds like we're happy to add trees at least two is what was in here that's good yeah um so I think you got 1.4 in remove invasive species s% native I I think I'm assuming the board would support that that yeah and you know anything on the site yeah that invasive species can be removed um additional trees there he kind of said yes I think on 1 h.5 2.1 on page 11 critical root zones not shown um I think that's a good idea because

152we originally one of our very first meetings was about those trees that are on site on the left I'll call it the left hand side the existing trees they're sort of at the boundary and people were concerned about keeping them is my recollection you mean like at The Back Fence those are the ones that I yes yeah there are a few trees along there not all of them but some of them yes the ones that are yeah an El element and Oak and when we had 90° parking we had one space that was slightly smaller it wasn't 20 it was 18 to accommodate the the the space needed around that route uh since we've reconfigured the parking we've made this landscape buer larger and I believe now that it it falls within that criteria good

153okay so that seems like that seems like something you're willing to entertain when you go through the list sure all right so yes so the next page 12 is where I think that tree comes in again which we've talked about which we already discussed yep um so we're adding a tree not moving a tree right adding a tree we're replicating the same setup on the other Plaza the arrow looks like something I would draw so thank you no offense now give yourself more exactly exactly exactly I feel included I'm like wait is it moving [Laughter] over we stand that's probably final change have anything 14 we got to 15 wait hold on I'm just curious what is perola p yeah p in the pocket part wood trilus wood structure oh got it okay thank you

154learn a new word today um so at page 15 of 17 I'm sorry 1- L2 the um bike racks I think we we said toward the front I don't know what the final thing will look like if that but I think that's a okay think it's been a great and that's all from design VI there's other open things with this a planning board they're not huge things I think so yeah I think most of the planning board things again tie back to gcg I think we went through those last time yeah yeah which Al who also got this document so once we read through maybe we'll see that those things are being picked up yeah um okay so see the applicant have we we can have have we given you information on these things about

155the one that the planning board had an approval or an opinion on and other ones that design review whatever it was desided with the design Review Committee is is good um so I I think the next task is for you guys just go through the list make the changes that you agreed upon or discussed with the design Review Committee things that are and and if there's anything in here that you think is a a problem or an issue of the things that they've asked for then those are the things you need to come back to us with that here's something that's going to be hard for us to accommodate or that we don't agree with or that interferes with our own design process you know whatever the whatever the reason is does that make sense

156it does madam chair thank you for the the so clearing it up clearing up giving us the opportunities for we're getting renderings too right with the yeah so the so the two renderings the two different because I think a lot of the confusion is which one are we doing again you know um um so at least so we'll have two color palettes but I think I think the rest you know I think we're getting close I think a lot of it is you know it seems like a lot but it's it's not you know um I I have a question related and it's maybe more it's probably more internal than the applicant but maybe so we haven't had any I saw on the tech review meeting it was about water and sewer but I think

157the water and sewer it didn't seem settled to me like we're under a sewer moratorium which means somehow in ashin there's a problem with sewer or potential problem because that was the moratorium we have to investigate SE moratorium yes we are under sewer moratorium under sewer moratorium yes but this is this application came in before that no I I understand my point is we're under a sewer moratorium because someone said there's either a problem or a potential problem with our sewer I would like to know what that means for this site okay there's there's some from the tech review they ask for Grinders because that will help with the problem but we should know as a board what this really means what this project means for our sewer and as we also should find out

158with the water and the water it rained a lot this year hasn't been a problem and there's the supplemental MW so I I'm not saying water's not a problem okay but what I do think we have to or at least ask the question right there's some businesses there but now we're adding a massive facility is the water pressure adequate when we're dealing with like the amount of added residents and the fire protection and I think we I have not seen an answer to them so I think we should ask for that but the the the application I mean the town needs to the utilities on the town have have to guarantee the service otherwise the capacity for the service otherwise this application wouldn't even make sense Ian me gcg I'm sure evaluated that noet and

159the sewer moratorium and I remember even on the discussions on the sewer moratorium was was really not about sewer moratorium the sewer had actually decreased over the years we were told that yeah correct so I don't know who who is going to guarantee I'm happy to reach out to Greg Aldridge who's our water sewer consultant to get a verification yeah I'm sure they can say oh yeah there is capacity and there's no problem then we hope so but here I'm reading Grinders on the property to ruce stress on Grinders and pumping stations this I didn't make this up this is add color to that I'm happy to add some color to that that comment came from our DPW our Dan Mau you know Dan Mau is our water and sewer commissioner that's who made that

160comment a lot of times you go to a pumping station there is not just an astion but across all sites and obviously everyone works in construction as architect X Y and Z is that there's a lot of times yeah there people that pull out wipes it's just not an astion that's across all apartment complexes right and there are opportunities to put if they're saying if there's an opportunity to put a grinder in it may make sense because of things people flush down toilets and that's where I think that comment comes and I think that directly what it's aimed at is to say it could be possible is if it's possible to put a grinder pump in an apartment building it may make sense to help ease any any I would say influx in harm on

161that system but regarding who capacity in that I'm happy to reach out to Greg Eldridge and make sure that we're we're we're taking care of yeah I mean I think but the grinder is not insignificant if if a apartment building is coming that will have an impact on all of us and we have a way to mitigate it I think that's what the planning board is supposed to do if I so sounds like something that we should consider adding to our decision grind pum one person said it but they have not been replied to by the applicant or gcg correct yeah we I don't think we've ever really touched upon it obviously the applicant did get this tech review memo we were in the tech review process and and and that's what the comment was

162to add a grinder pump you know and we've never touch and we've never really touched this topic when permitting 100 Chestnut or 501 Pond Street we've never really heard this comment from the sewer so it's kind of came out of so it's a recommendation that just came out a recommendation best practice Okay so so can we have gcg I can mention it to gcg and a pine on I can have Mike Carter a p an expert to say you really don't need it or actually yes you actually want that and then we can say okay I'm happy to I'm happy to have that conversation I mean I think Peter is right I've been to Deer Island took their too or you want that and and this is a big impact right so if if we

163didn't do our best job in and on other developments let's not repeat that that's you know tech review tech review is also we don't have time today to get to so maybe we can include that in our next agenda and include this element and I totally I kind of agree with what Katy suing but I think that decision should not be just let's ask for it because let's ask for it if there's a sense if it makes sense and if there's a professional opinion of an expert that says this is what you should do mhm let's have a basis for the request not just let's ask for it no I'm on the same page with that I agree 100% yeah with Marcelo hope that's to say if it why I brought it up yeah and

164and and I think I hopefully I was able to shed some color on that comment that was made by the sewer department and you know but I'm sure there's residential houses that flush baby wipes down the toilet and they go into the septic systems and they go right but our job is to consider impact on infrastructure in decisions that is very clear so I I think agree um but back to the water so on Chestnut if you recall there was a potential issue about pressure and we put that on the applicant I have heard nothing about pressure and I want to bring it up now because I think that will be a condition if we don't know we're going to have to put that in but to be kind to the applicant we should probably

165at least find what we can right without spending Engineering Services but at least I mean apparently the applicant doesn't have a concern maybe it's not a problem but I think it should be raised I guess yeah so that's um I'm happy to put an email together and try to get an answer yeah okay you have to talk to them anyway about Cedar Street so I'm happy so water pressure and Sewer okay capacity MH and the the pump great okay so um just while we have this open and uh we're kind of wrapping it up here I do want to open it up to any public comment on uh on 9 to 49 Homer AV I don't know if there are any and some of it was held during our public comment um so right it

166doesn't look like any public comment seeing none we'll move on um so so anyway so next time at our next meeting we would expect to see the design Review Committee list having been gone through and responded to by the applicant the things that we talked about today we've given as much feedback I think as we could but for you to respond to all to to those things because they're they're directed to you in the drawings about you know what what we're supposed to approve and then we'll also look at hopefully not only have a report on sewer and water but um be talking about the G CG report and so I would also recommend that the applicant also go through the gcpg report which I know they're doing anyway and see if there's anything in

167there that's an issue and what you know what what is remaining that is still going back and forth yeah I can if anything I I'm sure the applicant will be able to do that obviously I talked to to Rick Salvo the civil engineer today and so I know that that process is underway okay but I think we got through a lot today I think we made good good progress so uh Terry has his hand raised oh yes Madam chair I do with regard to the gcg report I did have an opportunity to go through it with uh uh Rick Salvo um a lot of those things in that in that report deal with matters that typically are dealt with during a building permit application rather than planning Board review and I just like some guidance

168as to um how you feel about that I mean you you've dealt with gcg reports before I assume they seem to be a peer review that's uh that the town relies on um periodically so um I don't know that we should we are we expected then to to to deal with get into the knights and bolts of the building permit process or deal with simply planning board issues well like I said I have not even had the opportunity to even look at that report I even even open the file so I cannot comment on what those can you give us an example yeah it goes It goes into detail about engineering things for example um that that normally we have we have our project engineer who you know takes care of those things when we

169file the building permit application we submit building permit plans are a lot more detailed obviously than P plans and elevation understood but our consultant is extremely used to doing this kind of evaluation at this stage of the game so I would personally relying on gcg to say no this needs to be taken care of at this stage and this is how we do it in Ashland um but but maybe not maybe there's some maybe they would make a different comment I certainly don't want to speak for them but I'm not going to disregard anything they have in their report yeah I would just ask for they've certainly gone they've certainly gone far a field and commenting on some legal legal things and I thought they were engineers not attorneys so maybe comment when you respond

170because we are clueless right now now I I Sor can you speak up please sorry maybe when you review it and you start responding you can put that in your response which element you feel you're not comfortable addressing right now and why that can go right into your response so then we can make a more educated decision thank you yeah that that's that makes sense I mean we obviously just cannot respond now because we don't have we don't know what the document says so actually if if possible what is the timing of of the applicant's response to gcg because it would be good to have it in advance so that we see what they said so that when we come to the meeting we already have an opinion on on the exchange I would obviously

171it's kind of a back and forth there a volley back and forth obviously we did got the gcg report today you know the email prep for the next meeting was going to go out next Friday um and so I would like to have a response you know back to G CG by next Friday so at least the planning board is seeing what the response will be and hopefully the turnaround is a little bit quicker obviously because of where we stand in the game regarding the review and obviously um gcg takes I mean obviously you know the the civil engineer takes the report and then adds any new comments that that are needed to obviously make that correction so if if it's possible I would probably say next by next Friday morning would probably be best

172if that's acceptable to the applicant Rick we can we can meet that deadline okay great I mean that'll keep the process moving because as you can see it it really it's it hurts when we show up when we come and we haven't been able to review the material so um then it's hard for us to move the ball forward on our end so well thank you for having done so this evening thank you yeah I feel like we're getting there um so but that means so we'll be continuing this for to two weeks correct and so just as administrative matter I did work with Attorney Morris and we did take care of a continuance it's all set I accepted it today uh actually he sent it to me before the meeting it will be filed

173tomorrow with the Town Clerk and it is to extend the public hearing process until November 17th which is um a minute that's the week before Thanksgiving and that is going to be we have a meeting Excuse me yes it's the Friday uh after our uh November meeting and so we'll have next meeting and then we'll have another meeting and then but if you know we'll we'll get a better idea of where we stand after the next meeting then the meeting in November um and one of agenda item not to lead into it will be our November December schedule so um I think that's a good time frame it doesn't mean that we're making a decision at that time we're just we're extending it out and extending it out until we get to the point where

174we're ready to make a decision yeah I just think knowing the meetings in in the November and then I know we did that one time it was like oh we have a meeting but it was due and it's not the way this is going I'm not seeing it all wrapped up all the conditions in a written agreement by that by that November meeting that's the point it sounds fast to me given where we are right now with just receiving documents today so um I mean it's fine it is it gets us out of the woods right now but it's just going to keep doing this so I just we all have to keep it on our radar screen so we don't get caught agreed no I think we can bring it up at the next

175meeting and see how far we get along on the 26th and then go to the 17th and you know keep you know yes it we're we we we must feel like we're hamsters in a wheel but this is just you know part of the process okay so on that note we'll be looking for a continuance I make a recommendation that we can continue the 9 to 49 Homer a site plan and special permit application until the october6 you're making a motion right not a recommendation okay I'll second that roll call vote I Anna tuski I Marcel r i Catherine Jers I Andria Kendall I all right so we will see you on the 26th we will aot as today have a amount of time for the discussion of this project yes so and that should

176be easily possible to do all right all right thank you thank you all for your time okay Amanda still hanging with us she has she she hasn't left yet I don't know she hasn't run SC from the room are you okay you haven't left yet after all this she laughed at my lawyer joke of drawing so that worked that's a fun reading I'm sure right there okay so we are then moving on to uh reports on planning topics I'm not sure we have anything new on these three items Scenic roads economic impact or parking memo I do have an in I do have an update okay uh on economic impact study and so I um did swap emails with Framingham State and I will be attending their um Merc advis board meeting on Friday October

17727th and so hopefully that relationship continues to build and we kind of move forward and and um continue and so um um that's where that when I can stand and obviously we continue to work on Scenic roads and in in a parking memo I know we talked about updating our parking bylaws but it just keeps on you know as more projects come up that one keeps kind of sitting lower at the totem pole but has that Scenic Road postcard or whatever it was has that actually gone out yet let me check with Alo I thought about the same thing I believe I thought it did and I know we're getting close we're getting close okay yep all right then uh reports from board members and town planner um comprehensive plan kind of give a little

178update uh really I think I gave an update of the last meeting so the next meeting is a week from today we have Public's welcome and invite we do have to work on like sound issues again I think I heard some some uh movement maybe on getting that to get it um more relevant to the people online they did have trouble also people in the room but um planning board welcome please attend we roll up sleeves and keep working no you may have mentioned it the week I wasn't here I don't know but um so you have two co-chairs now of the large steering committee group is it did we talk about that last time yes they were we we selected two co-chairs that will not rotate yes the steer committee now has that and

179they've signed on for potentially for the year and a half or twoyear duration pretty happily oh pretty happily yeah yes no okay they've been tricked excellent excellent excellent work well I just think that's say these things out loud don't say two years I just think um because I did I did watch the tape I saw them when they were kind of I know the first time they were maybe they weren't permanent yet right you know and um I was uh it I was I was happy because it seemed like the thing that you guys I don't remember who talked about it in the beginning but about being able to draw out leadership from the community and I was the one that says no one's going to step up for that they did we better have

180it in the regulations that one of one of us select board or planning board can step in if no one else steps up but it seems like kind of your first choice of I don't know people from the community stepping in I think that's a really powerful thing absolutely and it's good to have uh both of them representing unique perspectives in the community for sure so I I say kudos for as long as they don't find outow twoe process which you keep ruining you said okay anyway um okay any was there anything else comprehensive plan I kind of jumped in there we did the consultant uh undertook a survey of the steering committee to assess our community connections to begin the work of engaging with various members of our community and so obviously the steering

181committee alone cannot guarantee all the connections to all the underserved communities or the unique organizations Etc that are part of our community and so if you remember at one point as a planning board we brainstormed who do we want to bring into this process of the comprehensive plan um and if you have our members if you have unique connections to underserved communities in in our in Ashland or a community that you believe would have a vital voice to contribute please let Kate and I know so that although you didn't fill out the survey we can take that and say oh the planning board has these types of community connections whatever they might be that you think may not be in that room like you know who's on the steering committee if you think you have

182some kind of connection that's not in the room please tell us do you have any idea yet when like the the things like community community forums and thing will start to happen that are very open do we have any like that's I'm a little nervous because it's sometime in December and that is a big it's it's kind of a big important thing out of their public of the Consultants public process but we don't have a date so I did say it t say it again it's December please public like December but we got to get that date right because we can't get people there if they can't plan for it so yeah the December um the consultant did recommend trying to tie it with a community event and that's they've seen success so we have

183like that illuminate Ashland which might be something this is where like we as a planning board can be part of that meaning like you each whether you ran for election or not you all have connections in the community people that support you that share their views with you like please come to the Forum bring your neighbors bring people that have spoken to about planning issues we should be part of that of creating that presence in the room that should be on on us as well because we are planning board I I think so I mean that's how the I the planning board can be present and you you have all the board has been very supportive and it's clearly Not absent in my opinion but I think there will be a time we're going to

184need even more and it might be certainly December for one soon to you kept telling like we had an event at the farmers market this past weekend uh the comprehensive plan steering committee had an event to kind of spread the word of the comprehensive plan and I talked to a couple of public members and I made a point to say to them we are required by law to engage with the public for a successful comprehensive plan like we have to do it we don't have a choice it's the law and that's really really important because it's there for a reason like we can't plan without the public so um I really appreciate how Focus Kate has been on public process that's awesome um but I feel like I haven't done enough on that and I

185feel like we should all try to do more to bring our neighbors and our people in as much as possible and I know we in this room have good connections to certain members of the community so all right great thank you um any other reports I I think the other ones were kind of covered or you know that we don't need to report on at this time um anyone else have a committee to report on I say nothing for okay then um under administrative matters we wanted to Peter and I wanted to talk about the meeting schedule for November December given how the planning board always falls within the holidays on on uh November December can everyone see that oh boy so we are so currently we we are in October it's October 12th um

186we do have a comp plan next week uh on the 19th and then our next planning board meeting is going to be on the 26th this meeting hasn't changed I do want to just mention and and I'm going to skip to one of the administrative items number one is that um I've been connected with obviously following Town Council in the litigation regarding whittimore Estates in Town Council has proposed an executive session for next Wednesday night at the select boards meeting uh and this could be held in person indor via Zoom um so I just want to this happened today kind of came across yesterday late I mean late yesterday early today so I figured I'd just kind of talk to everybody in person would would everyone indor a majority of the board be able to

187make an executive session next Wednesday night and that would just be coming on for just that portion of coming on just for that portion of the meeting Wednesday night the that will be the 18th yep yes okay what time I can do that I think uh it could be before their meeting so it could be a little bit earlier but I can confirm tomorrow with the town manager's office uh a time I'm open okay I can put this in an email as well tomorrow Andor on Monday moving into November is everyone okay if I moved into November just to make note I did make that mapc Trails meeting that is regional and in the morning if anybody's interested in going that was part of that email that I sent though Halloween is on the 31st

188uh I am not going to take credit for that so here is here is um November the Thanksgiving is going to be on the 23rd the fourth Thursday of the month our planning board meeting is always on the 2nd and the 4th so here we are going to meet on the 9th of November um and then the 30th right correct so here's here's the here's the here's the kind of the the start of the conversation so normally we meet on the 23rd and I we are proposing you know I'm proposing to move the second planning board meeting to the 30th which is taking advantage of the fifth Thursday of the month I think that's a good idea since Thanksgiving is the 23rd unless we all want to be napping in this room on Thanksgiving day

189unless you guys want to come over for turkey also to not uh the MBT the select board a while ago uh mentioned that you know one of their last meetings that to have a update on the MBTA Community zoning and so on the 15th the planning board will be asked to meet with the select board to go over uh MBTA zoning myself and November right this is November 15th correct I guess a joint meeting that's something I could have just reported very briefly on uh Peter Alvaro Joe manani and I have met twice now about that and are kind of digging in and and we'll be having on the 15th some real initial proposals about how we can and that's a joint meeting with the select board that we show up to their meeting we

190show up to their meeting just for that portion yep sounds good and in December um so normally we are going to meet on the 14th and the 28th um remember we're going to meet on the 30th excuse me we're going to meet on yeah 30th the 30th of November so traditional so we're we're going to have one meeting what I'm proposing is have one meeting in December at this point on the 14th and that would be on the 14th um having a second meeting is the week of the 28th obviously it's school vacation week I'm always off that week I'm out of town that week um myself and Alvaro are both out of town that week I think that's okay to not have one okay and so that will be the schedule for octo I

191mean November and December and then we pick it back up second and fourth on January keep in mind that the comprehensive plan will have its big Forum sometime in December so that's correct it would be good if we are skipping one of our meetings maybe try to show up for that as a so that yeah neighbors cookies whatever it takes yeah yeah I think traditionally I will say just so that you know with I've done comp plan obviously you know I've done comp plans we have the first two weeks in December then after that everyone checks out everyone checks out Hol public forum will be yes and so I think having that meeting on the 14th is good timing it's another it's a regular intervals between the meeting on the 30th and then obviously we

192can we can all take a Christmas break and then come back in January and then get back into our first and fourth Thursday of each month rolling in the new year of I can't believe I'm saying this 2024 so our January meeting would then be on the second Tuesday which is the the 11th that's almost a month off folks wow I don't know how I can make it uh so that is the meeting schedule for November and December I think we all concur what everyone's good with that moving that November meeting though okay yes great uh I talked about wura States um 10 to 30 chestn Street the foundation's been the foundation walls are being kind of poured last Friday they finished up the sub the U subsurface drainage Mike Carter was out there you

193know checking out the drainage with moving forward with the sewer and water connections laying that pipe that's all being also uh also being um excuse me inspected by gcg in our water department we're all working together um the next item I wouldn't say is Starbucks obviously everyone's probably driving by the site uh the foundation has been poured it was back fied and doing some grading work um and so that's where that project stands right now and the mural has movement right I think they have the mural does have movement I just haven't been briefed on that I want to say they posted a deadline for artists for Mid November so if you know muralists I think the deadline is is it November I think it's a November deadline yeah I know making that up October

194I don't think you made that up you know I think I responded to an email last week that came from that the the Ashland committee cult Council it was just asking you know what's the size what's the material you know I had to jump into the building permit look at the building look at the size look at what's going on what they' be painting on I fired all the details off to them and then I really haven't heard back so obviously that process is underway cool all right it's all the updates it's all I yeah it's all I have all right and then we just have we have no new applications I assume we have no new applications at this point um and I see a couple maybe rolling it obviously I think we all

195you know the the the brewery at the fire station that that that's the next one I am I would say um I'm I'm waiting for uh and and then then go from there all right so we have we've already discuss the next meeting we have the meeting minutes from o sorry August 24th that was one I was not there though I do have a couple just little Corrections uh item 13 uh Zoom conference in yep and the other one it took me a while actually to it's way back on p on line 126 on the last page that the planning board Mr machic reported that the planning board received a throttle letter these are the two things I was going to change the zoon and the throttle I think I assume it's withdraw withdrawal letter

196a throttle the throttle that sounds serious someone's being throttled yeah I don't know no it's just a I drive a standard car it sounded like something a throttle EXA I don't know that sounds yeah it's very frightening I don't want it I was going to say we never got that letter I'm driving a boat nope that's his withdra I make a motion that we accept the minutes of August 24th 2023 as amend with the two Corrections mentioned did anyone else have any corrections okay second and a roll call vote I Katherine J's a guy and I think that's it because I wasn't there so I'll make a motion to finish the meeting 10:03 at 10:03 p.m. yep I second and a roll call vote Anis I I Katherine Jersy guy and on on uh the

197last vote I always ask for Amanda Hayes I and Trisha Kenda Trisha kendai I so we are done thank you good job is that your first one it is oh wow how do you feel you felt like a natural