SVUESD Board Meeting - December 9, 2025

001Okay, I think we have some folks who are still finding their seats, so we'll give them just a few moments to get themselves settled. Jamie, do you guys know if anyone else is out there wants to come in and join us? >> So, great. So, good evening everyone. My name is Chris Murphy and I serve as chair of this board. Um this is our it is build is a special meeting because we're meeting at a different time than we typically do. Um but we have the posted agenda. Uh I would entertain a motion please to amend the agenda. So under finance item number four we item B to add in that um through our vice chair the national junior tennis and learning of Bennington wishes to donate a full pallet of super sandy cloth registered

002trademark germicidal disposable bikes for the use of our elementary school. So I please entertain a motion to add that to item four under finance please. >> I'll make that motion. >> Thank you Jeff. Do we have a second? Thank you. We have a first and a second. Any discussion about adding that to the agenda? >> Hearing none. All those in favor of amending the agenda as described please signal saying I. >> Any opposed? Any extensions? Great. So that passes. Um so our first uh posted agenda item is the pledge of allegiance. So I invite anyone who cares to say they can join us. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for its one nation indivisibley justice. >> Thank you everyone. >> That brings us to agenda item

003number two, public comment. Just as a way of not even discipline here, a preamble. Um, for anyone who's been to more than one of these meetings, you will have noticed that I am terrible about not responding to public comment in the way that we ought not to respond to public comment. Tonight is a brand new slate. As as uh is appropriate, the board will not be responding to public comments. Read the chair will not be responding to public comments. Um, in the past, I've been I felt obliged to reply to offer clarification or correction. So even in the event if anything happens to be said this evening in public comment that is not accurate, there will still be no kind of response at all. So it feels terribly rude on my part to not answer

004a question when directly asked, but that is what it's going to be tonight. So please don't read anything more into it other than public comment is not is precisely that. It's not question and answer. It's just for comment. So if you choose to have a say in public comment, please stand up. Tell us your name and the town in which you live, please. >> She is Denver. I live in Chefsbury, Vermont. And I'm going to Hi. Hi everyone. I'm going to read a letter we um wrote 48 hours ago and have over 100 signatures signed on to community statement of support regarding the SVUD pledge of allegiance directive. We the undersigned would like to share with the board our strong support for the directive adopted by the SVUD last fall regarding the recitation of the

005pledge of allegiance in the elementary school schools in our district. This directive provides the opportunity for any student who wishes to recite the pledge at school to do so before classes begin. We are residents of the towns that make up the SVUSD. Whether as parents, teachers, caregivers, or community members, we all have a vested interest in the education, educational practices of our local schools. We believe that learning about the flag, the pledge, and civics is a vital part of a well-rounded public education. At the same time, we also believe firmly in ensuring that students who for any reason choose not to recite the pledge have the space and freedom to refrain without pressure, stigma, or disruption to their school debt. We are aware that at several recent board meetings, there's been substantial public comment questioning

006both this directive and its implementation. We would like to make clear that there is broad community support for the thoughtful process, discussion, and decision-making the board board undertook last fall as well as for the directive that was ultimately voted on. We recognize the diverse opinions this issue raises and the challenges of crafting a a solution that respects the needs and rights of all students and families. The adopted directive does this by ensuring that any student who wishes to recite the pledge within the school setting is able to do so. The SVUSD directive includes the following components. Daily recitation. All students will have the opportunity to recite the pledge every school day. Location and timing. The recitation takes a place in a common area shortly before classes begin. Voluntary part participation. Students and staff may choose

007to participate. Consistency across schools. The board adopted this practice to ensure a district-wide uniform approach. We appreciate the board's careful and principled approach to this issue and we want to ensure that you hear from committee members who strongly support both the process and the directive. Can I am I allowed to give this to you with all the sign? We have two copies. and it can also be >> Yes, please. >> Michael Gardner Shaspberry. I'll reserve my comments on the issue for the pledge for when it's actually listed in the agenda. But I have two other things I'd like to bring up. One, I know we had a lot of budgetary constraints. As a parent that has a daughter that's now in middle school but was in elementary school, I think it would be really worthwhile,

008even if it was done among all the different schools, to look at potential busing options for GISP. It's a great program and they're really struggling with volunteers. So, I know we all have some really serious budget issues to discuss, but it's it's something that gets kids out and away from their phones and I think it's really integral in how they develop as young adults. Uh the second thing is just a public comment. Having watched um the board meeting online, I was really disappointed at the censure um of a non-resident. The board under your own policies has the right to allow someone that doesn't live in our district to speak. And I thought that was a clear violation of their rights because I also would view and I think an attorney would argue that they are

009an interested party. So I would encourage the board to be more open-minded to that as you move forward. My name is Ann the blank leaders. Um, two things. First, want to say that Norm is very sick. He apologizes for not being here tonight. Um, but I also want to address this to you. You at the last meeting said you would get reach out to me and talk to me. You never did. I don't understand your lack of dealing with this issue. You're not going to talk about it tonight. When are you as a board that we elect going to talk about this and settle it? This has gone on way too long. There's no excuse for this, you know, and you live in the United States. Aren't you proud of where you live and saying

010the pledge and teaching our children to respect the pledge and our flag? It's important, but you don't deal with this. Now, you're saying again tonight, you're not going to talk about this. The board's not going to talk about it. When are you going to talk about it? Anyone else for public comment? Okay, thank you very much. So, agenda item number three is the consent agenda which was attached to the other agenda which calls for an approval of the minutes from our last meeting from November 25th and also the consideration of a field trip request form. Um I have forwarded one uh requested correction to the 20 to the minutes from the 25th and that it it misrecorded our actual um beginning time. As we recall it was it was depending on where you looked it

011was warrant for separate times. We didn't actually have quorum until 518 I think maybe 5:13. So I forwarded those to Richard for consideration for correction. Uh but are there any other proposed edits or corrections to those minutes from 11:25? Okay. Any questions about the field trip request form uh for key for the key waiting trip? Please >> um we had asked in the past that after the field trip had gone through that we could hear about it and get some reaction time or some feedback from the kids from the adults. Um, and also I'm curious, will there be um any dissection, frogs, sharks, anything to that nature because that includes a different policy and I just didn't know parents were aware of that. Um, and as well as I went on the website for the

012key waiting and I I I'm hoping and I want to believe that they're all background checked, but I h I couldn't find any place where they had any um background checks for the staff and I don't know enough about the program to know if the students are alone with those staff members. If um are parents is it parents or are they teachers that are I don't remember on >> it is parents who when done the background checks for field trip requests >> but it's just a regular it's not the it's the lightweight version of the background check so will parents be alone with the staff members from keep like and I don't know where to get those questions so I feel confident if our superintendent has already reached research those items or has those answers

013um in moving forward. I love field trips and I love outdoor education. So for me it's a win-win. I just want to make sure our students are safe. >> So let's do this. I'm going to I'm going to sort of bisect the consent agenda. So let's begin with u because there were no other proposed changes to the minutes. Um I would entertain a motion to accept the minutes from November 25th with the correction that I had noted earlier. So moved. >> Thanks, Lyn. Do we have a second on that, please? >> Second. >> Thank you, Jeeoff. Any discussion on approving those minutes before we get into the the field trip? >> Okay. Hearing none, all those in favor of approving the minutes from 11:25, please signify by saying I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any

014abstensions? Okay. So, that passes. >> When it comes to the to the item six and the QA um are folks, I mean, I think I think we can do one of two things. we can table this and we can ask for some clarity around those questions that you've raised, handy, or we can just make a motion to uh to approve this this request. Um I don't know, let me just look at it again briefly. I don't see that there was necessarily a quick time crunch on this when they need our request or when they need our approval rather. It would the soon as we'd be able to approve it would be on January 13th. Um just taking a quick look at this and see if there is a a near deadline. I don't see one.

015I was going to say I think this is the quickest I ever got to this one. >> I think I think we approved this in May. So I think we just I'd make the motion to say what till next. >> I I but in the meantime the request for information. >> Yeah. Yeah. Are there any other questions um or or areas of clarity that we're hoping to see that any board members hoping to see around this field trip request form? So, just so I have it clear and superintendent, I hope you can bring this message back to um >> I have three items. >> Miss Magcguire and Mr. Miner, please. >> S would you reiterate those please? >> Um background checks for the um staff at Keewan, >> whether they'll be alone with students or

016will there always be an adult either a parent or a teacher in that group? Um, I'm like 99.99% sure that this office has background checked the people who are listed. >> Um, I feel confident about that. I just want to make sure that it's safe for our students when they're there. Um, also the to see if to determine if there is any type of um dissection of any kind. >> Is there typically dissection? >> Well, there was a nature's classroom. >> Okay. and that it's a different outdoor education program. Um, but there's a policy that allows parents to opt out if they feel that it's not something they want. >> I think when my kid was there, there's no dissection because I heard about it. >> You would have? >> I would have heard about

017it. >> Well, there's sometimes there choice times and >> I don't know enough about it. So, I like to >> Okay. So, um, Superintendent Pan, if you could please get that information back to us, please. Uh, and I mean, I don't do my best. >> Yeah. I don't know that uh I think it's fine if if Miss McGuire or Mr. Miner just want to send an email to you and then forward that to us. I think that would suffice. >> Yeah. >> I don't think we'd need them present for that, but just to get those questions answered. >> So try to make the motion to post the this request until next meeting. >> Yep. >> I'll make the motion. >> So we're so we're good. >> Okay. So thanks everyone. So that brings us to

018agenda item four, which is finance. I'm just going to quickly review the rest of the agenda so folks who are here know what to expect. So finance is a budget update from FY27. Um there's a placeholder for policies, but there are no updates. There's an operations agenda item where we are revisiting our tractor bid because there are questions around that. We're going to get a quick report out from the SVUSD best educational use of facilities subcommittee. There's going to be a brief SPSU report. Then the superintendent will give a report. Then the chair is going to give a report which will include a clarification of board expectations regarding the pledge of allegiance and there's some items and then there is a proposed executive session at at the at the talent event. So just so folks

019know what to expect from the rest of the evening. So uh director Gordon leave the show is yours the fiscal year 27 budget update please. >> Chris I'm sorry I'm trying to do so many things. Did the consent agenda get approved so I can give you warrants to sign? The minutes were approved. Other item on the the thing that was tabled from the consent agenda was the key waiting filter. >> We still have the warrants. >> We can still find Yes. >> Yes. And the I'm sorry, you're absolutely right. And the warrants. So, let me specifically ask that. Um, could I at least have a motion to approve the warrants as included in the consent agenda? >> Thank you. Uh, any we have a second on that? Thank you. First and second uh to approve

020the warrants as posted through the consent agenda. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of approving the warrants, please signify by saying I. >> I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? Okay, motion carries. Thank you, uh, Director Gordon. Okay, now back to you. >> Okay. I Everything's in a packet and I only printed about the ice cream. Sorry. Uh so draft two we do have um some updates from um the version that we saw week or two ago I guess it is now as I had mentioned uh beehive had sent us a notice about our dental rates possibly increasing well staying flat at zero or increasing up to 15%. Uh we did get notice that our rates are going up 8%. So that has been factored into this draft. Uh we continue to um do

021a review of uh our staffing and benefit election. So we have made some changes um accordingly there. The Vermont Municipal Employees Retirement System um will be increasing by a 0.25% 25% um contribution rate for both G participants and the employer. So that has been factored in this >> and uh most notably uh are the assessments. So these assessments um are included based on draft two of the SPSU budget which will be going before that board next Tuesday. Um with the long-term weighted average daily membership version preliminary version two. Um so those assessments are essential essentially proportioned out by the long-term weighted average daily membership of the SU. So um we are now significantly lower than what we were looking at at the the first draft. Um so a 3% increase. Um also wanted to there

022have been no changes to the FTEES. So this remains as we had presented it with um draft one. There are s a few asks of those highlighted in blue, many of which are a result of grant funding um expiring June 30th. So those include um a be um a licensed clinical social worker and a behavior coach at Benel behavior coach at Molly Stark and the one that's not highlighted but a math teacher and coach um at Panel the point4 clinician at Panel the 1.0 0 math feature at Monument and 0.1 increase to the library media specialist at Monument are all um new ads not related to any grant funding. These are all included in the budget draft that you have before you. The other thing we need to look at is our revenue. So I

023have highlighted in peach the general state support grant also known as education spending. So essentially and Tim if you want to pause and have me pull up that other >> happy to do that probably pause for just a minute. So if folks are looking at the overhead could you go back one slide there for now. >> Oh I didn't know if you wanted to actually pull up the >> Oh yes if you could your map your road map. Folks who are experienced with this, you know that Renee showed you on the first slide that the school budget is up 3%. But then she tells you that educational spending is up 9%. And it's important enough to we've been spending the first six months of my being in this role trying to explain to folks the

024long and windy road that is school finance in the state of Vermont. Mary has sat through this so I apologize. because we're going to revisit this Mary but this slide u this resource is available on the school on the district website the sbsu.org If you click the tab at the top, it says superintendent. There are documents including this, a school funding map. The reason that we did this is that um there is a disconnect between what we do locally, a 3% school budget, given the wide variety of things that everybody's aware of. Costs for wages have gone up, your health insurance has gone up, heating and maintaining buildings has all gone up. So 3% is a good starting point. But it's important to realize for folks that we are working in and if you look

025at the full piece, you're really seeing the positive side, the local side of it. What happens on this side is where we are right now. We develop a budget. We share it with our boards. The boards eventually will say we can support that. We put to the vote and citizens of our communities vote yes or no on our budget, which we hope they do. We then cross over to the other side of the lane because in the state of Vermont by law, if we as a community approve our budget, the state of Vermont has to pay that. However, in the unique system that is Vermont, we determine and approve a budget and then we figure out how to pay for it. Okay? I don't know if you run your household like that. I personally can't

026afford to. Uh but what happens to that 3% that we are showing you of your expenses going up is accurate. That's how much it's going to cost to pay teachers to light the bill, you know, to transport kids. But what happens is you have a couple of things working against you, which is what Rene is going to talk about. And I want to be clear, this is statewide. This is not an SU only situation. We all have fewer kids going to school. And what that means is that there is less money coming from the community to turn the lights on, to transport kids, to pay teachers, to fix the roof, those kinds of things. And Rene is going to walk you through that. But for the purposes of this piece, I encourage you to check

027this out because we'll walk you through what you do locally and then what happens in the state. And what I mean by the state is that's a January to June conversation. They will determine numbers that get plugged in. And I know there are some of you who enjoy math. So we include the math formula and vocabulary so all the little variables can be understood. And it really it needs a vocabulary sheet to go along. I'm not kidding you. Mary is nodding her head knowingly that this is quite the thing. So we're saying this early and often. I and I've shared this story. People giggle about it. I go to Price Chopper or Hannerford buying bananas and someone says, "Tim, you said the school budget went up 3% and my taxes went up 15 cents. You

028rascal." Okay. And I try to explain it to him and my one pager is my attempt to explain it to them in an elevator pitch. Okay? We control the green side. We try to be reasonable to folks. a 3% raise given the cost of living that everybody's experiencing right now, affordability issue and all that good stuff. Then the legislation has its piece and the things there are things in this conversation that we don't control. The number of kids going smaller and smaller, they don't control that right now. The uh the costs of or the income coming into you, we don't control that. So, we want to be clear with folks with that and we're happy to play our part in trying to keep property taxes down, but it's not as simple as you vote for

029it, comes back, you pay for schools and you know that kind of thing. So, I've talked long enough. I've encouraged you to go check out her website. This is a creation of Renee Gordon. I want to be really clear about that. It even helps people like me. So, I want to make sure she gets credit. There is a question from you. >> Uh, question and a comment. One, I think it's phenomenal that this discussion happened and that the issue some of these folks here for is after this because as someone that spent a lot of time understanding Vermont's education funding system, 95% of the people that I speak to have absolutely no idea how the state of Vermont is doing this. >> And they also don't understand that 72.3% of people in Bennington County are

030not paying property taxes. They're paying property taxes based on income. >> Yeah. Um, and then I guess just to ask a question. Um, is there a costbenefit analysis? I noticed that Pel, we have three full-time equivalent custodial staff. The physical footprint of the building is probably similar to some of the janatronics uh, contracted folks that are being used in other schools. Is there a reason Janetronics is being used in some schools? Is there a reason that Powell has 50% more custodial staff than Shaspberry or a similar footprint? >> Um, my my bill my operations person is really bouncing in the seat. She >> Oh my god. I get to talk about this. Oh my god. >> I'm Yeah, I'm going to pause for a moment. Let Renee get through her budget. >> Uh, Holly is

031part has a a presentation to this board for operations with regards to the tractor. We can absolutely I will assure you that we've had a spirited conversation about how to staff either with local custodial staff or janatronics and we can answer your question in that moment if you bear with me. >> All right, Renee, would you like to hop back to where you were? So before I rudely interrupted Renee, she was showing you this slide. And again, the blue line at the bottom is that is the far right corner is where most folks rush to. What's the percentage? That's 3% more on your school budget. That's to pay the bills. What ed spending is in peach and that is a combination of math. It's your budget plus any income that you might have and what

032you'll see is the cost of that is up 9% almost 10%. Okay. And again fewer kids it may be the fact that you can't raise money on local property at the rate that you'd hope to. So you have to raise more taxes. We will explain that in just a bit. But I just want folks to see the disconnect. Those two numbers are not the same, >> right? So, um I have taken a look at what we have projected for an incoming um elementary tuition. So, that very first line there, we um do at this point project one less student um coming in from North Bennington and Searsburg. So, um that has been adjusted. still being somewhat conservative on the interest as we know that the um rates are coming down. Um then of course our

033fund balance is actually headed in the right direction. So we are spending our surpluses down. Um but as you can see having that number go down is really offsetting pushing the demand that we are asking for from the ed fund which again is that highlighted in peach general state support grant also known as education spending. um that potentially at this point um with this budget as it is before you um is a 9.9% increase. So the next part of kind of the the crazy road map um we have to look at what our uh student counts are. So this is just the average daily membership trends for what I have here for you is the Southwest Vermont Union Elementary School District. of this board along with Mount Anthony. So alto together this is serving our

034prek to 12 students. So tax rates for all of our towns within these unions are blended between these two school districts. So we kind of have to look at them and consider them together even though the boards are completely separate. So as you can see um those counts are trending downward. So average daily membership um with a glossery that you need book for education um is the count of students that are enrolled attending our schools from days 11 to 30 each school year that is average daily membership and then just to to share it's happening in other districts within our SU as well Sangate is a little bit of an anomaly um they are a nonoperating K to2 district. North Bennington is a nonoperating K to6 district but Arlington um in the upper leftand corner

035is an operating K12 district. So the most part as is what the state trends are downward. So if we look at SVED and Mount Anthony together um we are we saw the expenditure budget three $34.1 million up 3%. I have uh Mount Anthony labeled as preliminary because that board hasn't even seen their budget yet. Um but the draft that I have prepared at this point is 37.8 million up 6.2%. We look at education spending. So the amount of money that we need from the education fund to support our budgets as we just saw with SVUSD up 9.9%. The preliminary Mount Mania number is up 11.8%. So when we look at that with our ADM, which calculation to get to our tax rates, you have to take your long-term weighted average daily membership and divide that

036into your education spending. But just looking at our long-term weighted average daily membership numbers, you can see that these are a decrease from the current year to next year. So what is the difference between long-term weighted average daily membership and average daily membership? So the ADM, which we just saw the two graphs of, you take those numbers over the past two years, average them together, and then there are a series of weights that are added to that. um weights for grade level, weights for poverty, weights for English learners, weights for sparsity, and we don't actually have any um schools within our district that get weights for small schools. So that along with state place students all factor into what our long-term weighted average daily membership is. So, uh, the version that I have here, um,

037is preliminary version two, although I did look today and there have been three more versions that have come out in the last seven days. So, it's a continual moving target. So, it's constantly changing. Um, and then just another thing to note is that, um, the budgets both the ED and Mount Anthony do include the SU budget. I think I already mentioned that. Um, but it is up uh, 2.5%. So what does this mean? Means this is what our tax rates are going to look like compared to this year. These are the differences and those are the percentages. So that difference um across the board, let's just pick Bennington. If your home was valued at $100,000, your tax rate, tax bill would be going up $297.80. But our budget's only going up 3%. So, you can

038see how confusing this is, right? So, our administrators have have tried to really do a good job with putting a budget together, but there's all of these other factors that come into play. um that get us to the tax rate that folks see on their bill. Um and just we're >> one other thing I would add in that again the the the budget building process in Vermont one is somewhat unique. Uh you'll hear the governor and the legislature talking more and more about a foundational formula. We won't bore you with that tonight, but more than 30 states in the union use a a foundational formula. Vermont is somewhat unique. We go through the process. We vet it with our communities. Our communities assign off on it and then it goes and then the state of

039Vermont figures out how to pay its bills. And so there as you and I push the math, you can walk through it. And what's interesting for the first observer is there are numbers that will be plugged into this that have yet to be determined. Okay? So you're building a budget, presenting it to your community. Your community hopefully votes for it, shows in good faith we want to support schools, and then the legislature is going to have to manipulate the formula, the math problem to actually figure out what it's going to charge. What happens is you get to the end of it and I I've lived in Bennington for 20 years, resident of Colonel may pay a different rate than my neighbor, my former neighbor Mary who lives in in Bennington. And that's confusing to folks,

040too. And that's based on the grand list in your community and how much money you can raise on the value of your property. And so, again, I just want to communicate to folks, we hear the frustration. uh the piece that we can control is to come to you what we think is a a responsible uh to run schools three to six% given the current economic conditions of the of our communities is is a good starting spot but I want I want uh to talk just briefly because we had a conversation today if if we pulled out all of the asks is that what we asked Renee we we gave a scenario to the for for the consideration. I might be jumping ahead. Feel free to tell me to stop. >> No, that's okay. Um, I

041just wanted this is the the sheet that board members are probably used to seeing and I just figured it's easier to digest lesser amounts of money. So, this is in the packet. This is the actual calculation of how we how I got to those tax rates based on the budgets and the different towns and the CFAs and all all of that. and I'm happy to go into that level of detail, but I'm sure nobody actually really wants to meet me. Um, so that being said, this again is in the packet if you're curious how how it all kind of factors together. Um, so I did take a look at um a couple of different things. oftentimes when we are faced with uh significant potential tax increases uh board members say how much is a penny

042worth? So it's somewhat challenging with the SVUSD and Mount Anthony because you both have part to play. But if we were looking just at the part the SVUSD a penny would be about $380,000. So, to get those numbers um that I just had up, to get it to come down a penny, we would have to cut $380,000. >> If we were to completely eliminate um our increase in education spending, so if we were going to level fund what we were asking for from the education fund, which is $2.8 $8 million between the four towns in the SVUD, we would still be looking at a tax increase of between 10 cents and 22 cents. Again, this is just the UED, so Mount Anthony does have a part to play. Um, but just to give you a

043sense of the the gravity of what's happening with the student uh population decline um and our CLAs, that's what we're going to be faced with. >> One last thing for folks to consider, last year, uh the legislature and the governor faced a similar situation and they chose an option of what is called a buy down. So they took money from other pots of money uh 110 120 million >> 118 I think >> and that was put in place last year to lessen the blow on the increases of taxes. It's a good short-term solution, but everybody knew very full well that what happens is you dig a bigger hole for the following year. And that is what we are now finding ourselves in. How deep your knees, your waist, I don't really know, but it creates

044a deficit for the next year in which to raise money out of. So, uh I have heard elected officials talking that oh, we're going to do a buy down again this year. I that's not a long-term strategy. I can't imagine that Mont Pillar will find $125 million laying around on a yearly basis to soften the blow on taxes. So, I just I've already had people in the community asking, hey, are they going to buy down the taxes again? I've heard folks say yes, and I've heard folks say no. That is what the legislative process is for, to hammer that out. But, uh, I would not count on that as a 10-year plan. And I feel like I am sewing darkness wherever we go for this evening. >> I appreciate we meeting earlier this week or

045earlier today with the building principles and I I told them you did you know you did a fair honest attempt to say this is what it's going to cost to run schools next year. A 3 to 6% raise given the current climate. But we did share the same information with them. Look, you should know this when your community stops you and says, "I don't understand." We've had, Mary and I have had this conversation both way. You said 3%, Tim, and I'm paying 15% 15 cents more on the $100. What in the world is going on here? So, um Renee, I cut you off, right, Paul? >> No, no, that's okay. Just a couple other things um for the board contextually. Um, so those FTEES that have budgetary impacts that I had those highlighted on the

046FTE page, those total about $480,000. If we factor in that one additional FTE, which is currently going to be budget neutral because there's a vacancy right now, so we were just going to repurpose that. Um, if that were to be pulled out, um, it would be it's about $588,000 that we would be able to reduce. So, it's not going to move the the needle a whole lot, but just to give you some context of what you're looking at in terms of what those additional FTEES are. >> And that does that include the FTEEs that are the title funded positions that were fedally funded that we now have to do as locally funded? That's what most of those are, but it's the title one school improvement or those comprehensive supports grants. Yeah. >> Um not getting

047those anymore, not >> the other title funding that doesn't take into positions. >> Oh, sorry. I don't mean to interrupt, but are we have we received the impact a revenue yet for 20 this for this academic year? >> I don't know if it's the budget. They don't have it as in the >> uh I would you don't have actuals for FY26 on here. It's only FY2. So it's the budget of 20. Um but have you received the impact a revenue for this academic year? That would have to at the at the receipts. I know that the application has just opened for next year and you're anticipating it to go down. >> Yes, there there was a shift um a couple you can you can see and actually I can pull this up for folks actually

048so we looking at the same thing together. Is force revenue working with it? >> Um, Sandy is asking about the forest revenue. So, the line here, the impact and here. Oops. The impact aid number. Um we used to have two different um I think they I think they're referred to as programs in the impact aid. One is related to essentially um federal land that is non-t taxable. So the green mountain forest land. So areas that cannot be included on our grant list. So this is a program that the federal government has that allows us to recoup at least some money for those lands that are not taxful. So that's one piece of it. >> Is that like pilot income payment of taxes? >> Yes. >> Loss of >> I don't know how impact a generates

049their revenue but it's just it's the impact program for our schools. Um the other piece to that was uh students that were housed in um probably not going to use the proper terminology, but in federal housing agency um housing that property that we used to have to review all of the students that were there and if they were our students and because it was a federal housing agency wasn't on the tax roles. So that was another part a separate part of the impact aid. Um that property is no longer part of that. They've gone independent. So it is actually on the tax roles now. So that part of impact aid um doesn't apply to the SVUD anymore. So it's only the lands that are forest. Um, and there could be other lands, but I just

050I that's what I immediately think of is, you know, the green mountain forest that wouldn't be considered any in the town's grand lists. And then the forest revenue is um a similar program, but that comes through the state. >> Renee, can you please tell us about Act 84 pennies? Something I learned about in the December 1st webinar today, and I'd never heard of Act 84 pennies before. Well, it's because it doesn't apply to the SVU. Yes. Sorry. >> So, it was um a way So, I think we are moving into year three of a five-year phase in of the shift in waiting of students. So, if you recall a few years ago, we shifted from equalized pupils to long-term weighted average daily membership. With that change, um, there were some school districts that got whacked

051pretty hard. So, they introduced new legislation to basically kind of smooth or ease that transition in. Um, the only school district within the SU that qualified for that is North Bennington. >> I was going to ask one more ask. Um, I know Heather Bollock wouldn't have runs just for Bennington. I think she's presented at the SVSU board and here at one point about the busing. Um I think we should I would like to consider you know adding that for next year potentially. That's probably SCSU because it is a you know K through six and a seven eight program. So I'm not sure where that fall in but maybe bring up the SCSU and see if that's something that we move forward with. It feels like a better place to start at least with the SPS.

052>> Well, I mean, she's presented all I think all she's presented that. So, I mean, >> and it is hard. I mean, it's a great program if you can get there and I think, you know, same with some of the tennis stuff, you know, there's pretty opportunities out there for kids. Um, transportation is a huge issue. Um, so that's just we move that forward too. Also press Chris fair to share that the state is equally as messy calculations because I was on the same webinar today and I mean you know they're they're playing their own game of I don't want to use the word rob you know ask Peter you play with Paul to play with me to come up with a with a funding source and I mean they talk about everything from you

053know meals tax rooms tax and the ways that they're creatively looking to fund this without a definitive number mirror what goes on here. It's not just >> Could you talk a little bit about the investment earnings and the difference between the actual from 25 and your budget for 26 >> the market's just volatile. So I don't want to rely on money and have us end up short. So I always heir on the side of being conservative. Um, I think I think enough >> um to earn $100,000. Um, but you know, if the bottom drops out, I'd rather not be short >> or we can only look at that as actual at the end fiscal year. So, we know >> the budget though, right? >> It's Yeah, it's always >> Any other questions or the quest

054for clarity for director? Maybe a hope for next the next time. I know that we're not ready quite yet, but if there on agenda number seven is a change of the educational use of facilities, does that also change our budget? And um do we need to do side byside budgets um to cover you know what could happen or what will happen or um that what if piece of this sorry Renee do not mean to add to your plate in any way. >> Oh I've already run the numbers. You want to know what no thank you for anticipating this. Um it's just >> um if there are options out there, you know, what will happen? And that's a it's another future little bit of a different investment. >> Again, I think I was airing on the

055side of being conservative and keeping, you know, $70,000 of the budget to keep the lights on and heat on in Woodford. So, if the electorate were to vote in support to close that school, that would save on this budget draft about $520,000. >> Um, I would also ask that um our superintendent once again meet with the administrators or teachers or whoever it is to make sure that we are funding what is necessary for all our schools to make them great places to learn. Um I I just would like to have the worst case scenario as well as um the best case. >> So the only other thing I would ask is like so if there is more direction of targets that you want us to get to that would lovely and then we'll also need

056to look at the calendar because if we can't I'm not going to sleep if we wait until our next regular meeting in January. I feel like we've got a lot of work to do between now and then. So um just to look at give us a target and >> Rene and I also sat in the webinar today. >> Seems like lots of folks sent into the webinar today. Uh the December one letter which folks may have read about the paper. Uh the governor and various officials have jumped on that quickly to um share their expectations. But there were questions generated at the end of that webinar that said, you know, as far as or direction to myself and Renee, we want you to go back and we want you to look at taking this percentage

057down to this or we want you to whether it be uh a budget number or the ED spending number that you want us to meet or not. Um we're just looking for some direction as we go. And I do agree with Renee. Uh, two meetings is probably going to be necessary in January, which should be entertaining as we're going to do this for a couple of other boards. So, we may run out of evenings, but we can be creative. >> So, Director Gordon, is if if we were not to have the 3% increase in what we're asking, would that just lop 3% off the education spending percentage? It's just flat that that just >> we're only going to take 3% off. So instead of 9.9 6 >> I mean I I don't that may have

058seemed like an obvious question to ask but as the superintendent so clearly outlined like there maybe should nothing be should be nothing obvious about about this process but I don't know that that is good for our our schools necessarily but it is at least one thing to look at. I mean 3% would be almost a million bucks, too. >> So, um yeah, I I don't I don't like that idea, but it is, you know, something to talk about at least. Um I didn't want to forget it, Sandy. I I think yes, whatever comes out of the the recommendations from the best educational use uh committee will be helpful for us to know. I don't I can't imagine we're going to be able to act on any of those recommendations in time for this year. So

059then the other piece of this is um in in that great act that came down they had a um classroom size >> and so the question is are we funding every school to meet those numbers. >> So we're not so Woodford is nowhere near what those minimum class sizes are >> In this budget >> ask the question again please. Um, do we have all that we need to to maintain the number of students we have divided by whatever it is um that is the minimum classroom size not where are they but do we have the correct number of teachers >> you have the correct number of teachers okay okay um >> it's different it's a little bit of a different >> yeah I mean so one thing Sandy and I were were shooting emails back

060and forth um at various points of the day and you know the question was raised like with with a a decrease in in bodies and student bodies uh not not the student body but bodies of students in in our schools what does that eventually mean for for teaching for for teaching staff what does that mean for non-eing staff and I think one of the one of the factors that I don't know that we have the answer to right now that goes into that is what is the maximum number of students that should be in a classroom right so I mean certainly we could just say sure let's fire 10 teachers not that I'm suggesting that but somebody could say that. What would that then make of classroom sizes after that? What what I was able

061to find online is that there's a reference uh the the state board of ed adopted a max a recommendation for a maximum class size. I'm going to say 23 something like that. Um and so like what would if we were going to look at at staff reduction and I'm not suggesting that because I don't think we have nearly enough information to make that suggestion right now. But if we were to look at staff reduction, what would that do to our average classroom size? That's a that's a factor to consider. And I think eventually we will have to do that because eventually our student numbers are going to get so low that we can't possibly maintain the number of staffing that we have right now. I just I don't know that we're there yet right now.

062>> Well, and then the second part of this, it's right up to your lane here about the behavioral piece. Does that mean that we will need additional support in the classroom for those teachers? Because no offense, but just because the state is saying that we have to have a maximum doesn't mean that those teachers will still need support somewhere. So, >> no, I agree. >> It affects the mix of students that you're going to have in the classroom. >> Yep. And as we've seen in some recent presentations, like all of those services are what's helping to decrease those behaviors that were getting in the way of student learning. and we're seeing an increase in student learning because of it. So they're they're vital they're vital for us. Um >> so so that is our directive

063for that's over there. Just fix it. >> So if we can kind of balance that a little bit and I don't know if that's Don't answer. >> Yeah. I don't >> we could my suggestion is we come back to the board and we be clear about what Act 73 has as far as expectations for class size minimums. We can you can't go classroom by classroom but you can say on average your buildings are right at that spot um or below or above. We can we can do that in general senses um keeping in mind that there's a holiday break and we'll probably be right back at it the first week of January or so. And would that fall in line also with the facility use, best use of facilities potentially? >> So we'll we will

064very likely hear in January. Maybe we'll hear in January what that committee best to recommend. Um at least half this board was present for that for that last meeting anyway. So we'll know. But like we we need the formal recommendations from them. Um again those are going to take time for us. if we're going to do them well, it's going to take some time for us to implement those if we choose to adopt those changes. Um uh and and I don't know if this question was asked or just in my head, but in terms of Act 73 and the the potential closure of small schools, um we would have three years before the legislation makes it so that the agency of education could come in and tell us to close Woodford. So, um, that's another,

065again, none of that I don't think helps us right now, but it does maybe help us start to get into view what the next couple years are going to look like. >> And it doesn't mean that we don't have another use for that building. >> Oh, 100%. >> Um, but that may not be our smallest school. A monument could be at that point if >> we're moving, shifting. >> Okay. So, do we do we have a clear directive for director Gordon or Director Gordon? Do you have a clear ask of us? >> Rene, why don't we start with why don't we why don't we start with the proposal that would lower ED spending by three points. >> Let's take a look at that first and we can come back. We can also be clear with

066folks around Act 73's expectations around class size minimums. Thank you for the reminder that it's a multi-year expectation that you get there and that there's no police action for the state to come down and check you if you're naughty on that. I'm just pointing that out. Pillar's a long way away. >> Chris, do you want to look at the first week of January? Um, and I think one thing I actually haven't shared with the board is time parameters are. So, >> the budget will have to be approved. We'll need to have our warnings um prepared and signed so I can get them to our district clerk so she can post them at some point between uh January 22nd and February 1st. So that's our like drop deadline. >> Loads of time. >> loads of time.

067>> Um is so what do folks have going on um the week of the 5th, January 5th through the 9th? Would folks be able to meet some evening that week? >> Have to be evening. >> Take some time off. >> Yes, it has to be. >> It probably has to. >> Some of us work. I think it probably has to be an evening. Yeah. >> We can start eventually. Yeah, we certainly start start earlier than six. I I mean I I don't have anything going on. >> Can I make a suggestion? We are coordinating for the elementary, MAU, Arlington, North Bennington, Hans Sanki, all of which we'll have to probably meet again in January. You know, May I make the suggestion we pull the chairs together and at least that way we could stagger over

068time over the month just to be >> I don't have an issue with that. I would ask that for members of this board just email me nights that are off the table, nights that cannot work in January. Given we haven't met as a policy committee in three months, I'd like to see Monday, January 5th stand. >> Okay. As a meeting date, you want to you want to throw something afterwards? >> Policy. I'll deal with it. >> Policy. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Um, sure. That works for me. But again, I I I think the superintendent's uh request is valid. Um, but let's get ourselves organized so we know what's on the table in terms of available. So, we just order no bow dates. you. I'm sorry. >> Just dates. We can't do that. Yes, please.

069>> Yeah. >> Okay. Dr. Gordon, anything else? >> I think that's it. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um, you each year you each year somebody says this, so I'll be the first to say this year you you make this incredibly cumbersome process, I think, probably as easily understandable as is possible. So, thank you for all the work that goes in, guys. Um, it's no small feat. So, thank you. Um, so our other agenda item under finance is the matter of the donation that's being offered. So I would actually ask the the vice chair to just read the letter. >> Oh, orchestrated this. >> Um, can I sum it up, >> please? >> Okay. So the the um USDA um is a a partner that I have when I do an afterchool program with the

070tennis center and they contacted me and and shared that they had a lot of extra uh wives that are hospital grade and would we as uh could I find someone um to get good use of these? And so they donated them um to uh the tennis center which we use some I shared some with the rec center. I shared some with who else did I share them with? Um Easter Seals of Vermont. And now I would also like to share them a palette with our elementary schools. Jeeoff, you are certainly more versatile on what these disposable wipes do because you work in a healthcare setting. Um but they are used um primarily if they if it's if they're wiped down in two minutes they wipe out just about every cold >> possibility that you could

071>> lots of bacteria and viruses. >> Yes. Lots of um so I'm happy to do this if the board will allow this um for elementary kids season. So, it's certainly >> helpful to keep um keep our doors and and anything that a child touches clean and sanitized. >> A sneezing. Yes. >> I would understand a motion, please, to accept the donation. Thanks, Cindy. Do you have a second on that? Thanks, Glenn. Any discussion about accepting this donation? >> Um, my only concerns I mean, because it is a just it's a you know, it had to classify cleaning material. So, we just have to update the MDS manual if they're not in there already. MSDS should be with it. However, um you're absolutely right and I think it should be would be maybe something for >>

072Yeah, there probably aren't schools anyways, but just that's something you have to look into at some point. >> Yeah, the SDS. Yeah. >> Any further discussion? Okay, hearing none. All those in favor of accepting the donation, please signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? Great. Thank you very much. Uh so policy, there are none. That brings us to operations and our track for bids. So, superintendent who will be speaking to us about the traction bed. >> I have asked the group of operations how to be speaking today. >> I apologize ahead of time. Um, so no, I just I uh my wondering is if you guys have any questions or concerns straight away from your review of the materials we provided. >> I didn't get any new materials, Holly. So, um, I was

073wondering what the options were for the product and price. I know that you had the bid sheet, but I don't know what what we're offering. Um, you know that I had a concern about the limited number of hours on it. Um, and because of this and because as much as I don't look like I can drive a tractor, I can. Um, we have four on our farm. Um, this is one of them. And this is 25 years old. 25 years old. and it has 13,000 >> hours on it. So to consider something with 1,500 hours to me is like a brand new vehicle. And so it makes me wonder what do we need this for? Why? Um, why would we need I mean I can understand where we might need a new bucket loader because

074it may not fit but and then I don't understand although Glenn will clarify me on this why we would need the excavator part of it because you can do a lot with a bucket loader. >> So all of those pieces are just part of my question. >> Sure. So, let me get can if you'll allow me I want to give you a little little backstory is the existing tractor is a John Deere. So, anytime we have to do anything it has that John Deere stamp. So, we have to go through and have the certified guy do it. It's really expensive. Um last year we spent about $20,000 fixing a $10,000 tractor which for most of the year sat there because it's broken because it's 20 years old. Again, I can't speak to what happened and

075transpired with it before I started. Um, but over the last year, we've uh put in wood chips all through last summer. Wood chips that the guys had to hand because the tractor wasn't working. >> We have an wood chips >> in the playgrounds. Yeah. So, for around all the playgrounds there's wood chips and so we took the tractor in town. Um, we can drive it. It has a municipal plate. So, uh cuz it's under 30 or 26,000 pounds. So, 90% of the time it's in our in town, uh schools when it's not like when we trailer it down to panel for when we redid the kickball field. See, I remembered I got the right word. Um so, they trailer it. We do have the tractor or we do have the truck. we have flatbed in

076those instances when we need to um transport it and um what was the other questions? Yeah. And I all all I can tell you is that we that we started this process two years ago. So um just for everyone's edification, we went through a big master planning process. So each building, each um set of vehicles, each fleet was reviewed and said, "Hey, like this building in 20 years we're going to need it's going to be $100,000. It's going to be so if you look at um because I love construction so much and construction specification institute like it's all broken down through like finishes, HVAC, different things in buildings, right? The same thing is true for the trucks and tractors and vehicles in that um we have a replacement schedule, right? And so we did that

077whole exercise to help inform every year when we look at the budget to say, you know, should we include a new roof? Should we include the tractors that are on this for a year and a half? Um it was on our uh ask for this time last year when Renee was putting together budgets. Um so we've gone through the master planning process to identify all the equipment. Um we've gone through the process now of pulling information out of that master plan to do individual annual budget years. Um so we put it on the we put this on the um budget for last year. It got approved in in the budget in March. Um since March it has been in varying degrees of disrepair. So were we keep taking a $20,000 investment every year and putting

078it into a $10,000 tractor that we can't use half the time. Uh it doesn't increase the loading capacity. Uh we can't lift things uh with the existing tractor. So like when I take the wipes, I'm so excited about the wipes. By the way, all those deliveries at the elementary district, we have to unload by hand because we don't have a tractor big enough. So, I I'm happy to go over all the bits and pieces and what you what anyone I'm happy to give you all the information, but what we're doing now is letting a John Deere sit and we'll keep putting money into it that's not solving the problem. So, I I would prefer to be much more fiscally responsible by something that fits the need that we've gone out to public bid. We've asked

079different vendors. We we know that this we we know what a Kabota is. It's orange. Um it's >> it's the same company though that just the K Cabota is coming from Salem. John Gear came from Salem. You've had issues. They haven't been able to repair the tractor. I didn't know it was a K Cabota because I don't have that listed as >> I was going to ask. >> Oh, thank you. But I don't have that listed. So I would like to know what the the two make the making models and >> full breakdown. >> Sure. And while I'm with you I Yeah. Um I I grew up on a dairy farm, right? I work I grew up working on family dairy and I can drive a beef fork. Anyway, um super ages are my f

080my favorite. Um, well, I I can't speak to the the John Deere or I'm sorry. Yeah, I don't John Deere versus the Capotin, the different bells and whistles. Um, the people that do this every day, the trained professionals that we've hired to run our schools have said, "I need this to do my job." And so, uh, out of the $35 million budget, this expense is about, uh, 0.02% of that budget. And so, it's I know >> Holly, but the question is, so this is a K Cabota. It's a 63 horsepower engine. >> It can lift just shy of 4,000 at the lift point of the Right. >> And it comes with a excavator in the back because that is current package is it sits on the dealer's lot. >> Correct. And that's that's an existing

081package. Like if you buy a KitchenAid, you get all the bells and whistles that go with it. It's part of the package. And so this this has um this was all out to bid before. All the tariffs, all the different changes in things and stuff federally. So um >> the price could change if we revisit this in the future. >> Correct. and we're doing and just to back up your Sandy Sandy just to just to just to let you know where I'm coming from especially with um uh the board tells us what to do, right? And we figure out how to do it. >> And this is this is the professionals that use it every day that understand the day-to-day boots on the ground. This is what they've said they need to fit their their

082need. >> My turn. >> Yes. >> Okay. nuts and bolts. First off, a K Cabota is a Cadillac. There are different options out there. Why are we now looking at a Chevy? Um 63 horse for seven. How much with the with the trade in they're going to take also? How many horsepower or 63? >> Tim 63. >> Yeah, >> I think that's high school. I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> What's the When we talk about the loading capacity, we talking about the back hole or we talking about the loader itself? Because you're talking about lifting >> the back hole. Yeah. And again, like I'm I'm >> But they've elected you to bring this to us so it's the answers that we're looking for because I'm looking at a tractor brand that I own right now that

083I can buy a 55 horse with a loader for 47,000. >> Sure. And is that a chef? >> This Yeah, this is a commercial grade. Is yours a commercial grade? >> They they build it as commercial. >> Okay. You know, just I'm asking um I'm also I reading in the packet today that the we're down to one vendor, one proposal. >> No, two I thought >> two >> one back out. >> So have a back hole one back. >> That's the reason that >> it didn't meet their >> It was too big a trailer to >> Will the trailer accommodate the new size tractor? >> Yes, that was part of all their list. Yep. Um, the other piece that the board might not be aware of is this time last year the town um uh

084the town has a salt shed or had a salt shed across from the Molly Star Castle and um they uh discontinued allowing us to use that which is totally cool. We coordinated with them and now there's a salt shed on Grand Street. So, we have to drive the piece of equipment down there to get the salt. So, that that's just a change in operation. So, you guys know >> and that's a bucket that you're using. You're >> they use it every day. I don't I couldn't speak to that. >> That's a bucket, >> right? So, I my next question is what do we use the Xavator for? >> Well, I I'm I'm And this is >> That'll make it easy. >> This is fine. I know what an is. Well, you know, the buck the

085the the rear the rear bucket of the tractor can dig holes as small as 2 feet. We don't want to dig up our grounds with a four and five foot bucket in the front to lay a piece of conduit for electric. >> And why would we have to do when when we five hours a month is what we're currently >> director you have you have an answer for that question? >> Yeah. So, no, I just >> tie it up for either, you know, neither one of us has anything. I guess what to answer your question guys what I'd like to do is go um Renee on the budget uh on this budget that she just presented right >> if you um look at number four under operations >> please and thank you >> I don't

086negate that it's there I would I would ask if it's money well spent >> right so uh I would like to um address your attention to number four it says negative this guy right here. So, we are doing a lot of work um like we talked about before laying conduit, pulling up fencing, doing our own grubbing um of uh stumps and stuff. So we are we use that tractor every day and um as part of a review of all of our operations in the in the place we're in in the economy now where gas is going up st you know dental is going up everything is going up in our operations we are going down because we are making informed decisions on all these things I you can quiz me all day I don't know

087the answers this is not what I do on a daily basis. But I will tell you that we do have really smart trained professionals that we rely on just like we rely on teachers who are trained professionals, administrators. Um and I I didn't bring the director of the elementary district here. Um because that's again um I don't want him to have to go through this process. So >> So could we have what we're what you would like us to approve? Could we have the details? Because I have nothing. We have nothing. >> So, what specific details are you able to >> Well, I would like to know. Go ahead. >> Everything, you know, make money. >> So, okay. That's that's what I need to know. Everything. I know it'll look like I can't drive a

088tractor because I can't. So, this one. So, >> right. >> I bet you my gardener knows a tractor. So, >> probably. >> Sorry. Can I ask a question? Is that Is there >> No, we need to we need to keep moving on the mic. Thanks. the items that are listed on the um bid form that we're actually >> my only concern is if we don't have the right piece of equipment we're looking at if we are using do conduit you know drainage stuff people who are able to deal with subcontract it out to another agency. >> Yep. >> You know that's all going to have to bid it's going to take longer. No, not not if it's significantly. >> No. >> Well, one emergency building can wipe out a whole lot of s >> I

089mean, is this you know the question is is it going to be cost effective to have the piece of equipment or subcontract out to, you know, >> so Director Anderson, could I ask a question? >> Sure. Would this what you proposed that that that we award sale and farm supply this this bid would that be placed in danger if we put this off to January so we can get these these final details nailed down? That's a great question uh that I it's hard telling not knowing but what I will say is that uh we will make whatever work right um we have a broken tractor that doesn't work and AU has a tractor we borrow it we coordinate when they're not using it um it is asking a lot of our staff who are removing

090snow removing ice making sure that our teachers and staff can get in the building safely we are they need a tractor that works So if we don't have a tractor that works if we have our existing tractor then we're going to keep doing the same thing and expect different results. >> So I'm I'm happy Sandy to provide whatever information we need but we need a tractor that works to remove snow and we don't have one. So my one concern is the tractor that you currently have, you haven't been able to get repaired and >> there just spent a lot of money fixing it >> and or perhaps people don't know how to use it. Maybe that's why I I don't know why that's I don't even want to that's not on my agenda. My concern

091is, do we want to continue with that same company if we haven't been able to keep this tractor of 20 years in operation? >> You mean the dealer, Sandy? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, one is so the dealer doesn't matter like if you buy a Chevy or a Ford, right? It can come through the same dealer. >> So, let me >> It's the manufacturer. It's not the dealer that's >> So, let me ask this. Does anyone want to make a motion that we award the contract to Salem Farm Supply? We have information in front of us right now. We have a recommendation for some action. Um, does anyone want to make that motion tonight? Okay. Um, so since there's not a motion on the floor, I think what what I would request um, Director Anderson

092is the information that's on the bid form. Actually, I'm going to back that up. Sandy and Glenn, you two seem to know a lot about tractors. What is it that you would need to know in order to make this in order to u make a motion to approve this >> cost house power horsepower um list of included implements and equipment and the load ranges what it lifts in the back and what it lifts in the front. trade value >> and I have >> yeah um trade value is all in the >> 13,000 >> and I believe >> 135 >> I believe that was on the website I believe that all that information was populated but perhaps I have it >> part of the board >> I believe so >> that's where I saw >> I

093don't do you want to do you want to think through this >> so here we go >> I'll get this back >> so so what I so it's on the second page It's on page two of the bid thing of the the tractor bid specifications. Dealers are um looking for a four-wheel drive tractor with sealed cab and AC and heat engine horsepower in the engine horsepower in the 60 horsepower range. PTO horsepower in the 45 horsepower range. Sure. Front loader capacity in the 4,000B lifting range and bucket loader in back. >> Haven't seen >> Do you have the other one? No, because it doesn't have the back hole. It's not it's null and avoidant. But >> can the backhoe still be used on another piece of equipment? The back hole it's not. >> So with

094the information that's on page two of the of the the bid requests now, does anyone does someone who can make a motion wish to make a motion? >> I will make a motion. >> Thank you. >> Folks who've been waiting for. So, I want to make sure that the SV So, you are you are moving that the SVSU board of directors award a contract at Salem Farm Supply and authorize expenditures from the current general fund of $66,160 to cover the tractor. >> Correct. >> Purchase. I have a first. Do we have a second on that? Thank you, Jeff. First and a second. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All right. So, all those in favor of the motion on the floor, which is to award this bid to Salem Farm Supply in the amount specified,

095please signify by saying I. >> I. I. That's three. All those opposed. >> I have three. So, we have a tie. Oh, Jesus. I don't know what to do. >> Um, so we didn't try. >> Okay. So, yep. Motion fails. So, um, Director Anderson, if you and, um, Mr. Clari want to come together with some additional information to bring before the board maybe in response to some of the points requested tonight. We we will absolutely make sure that it is placed on the agenda in January. >> Sure. And I would really um I'm happy to do that. What I would request is because all the questions are supposed to go through the board. Um let us know what questions you have. I would happily answer them and get you information to synthesize. Um >> most

096of them were right there. >> Okay. Um, what I what I would offer and I know you guys already voted in um and I don't know where Robert's rules goes from here, but we're leaving the staff right now at Fennington the elementary district without a functional way to move large quantities of snow in December. Right. So, >> we've made do up till this point. >> Yep. We absolutely have because we're going to make it safe for kids. Right. Exactly. But instead of using tools and technology to make it easier, we're hand shoveling and we're asking a 72y old man at Monument Elementary to shovel snow and to remove ice, right? Instead of providing the right piece of avoiding the >> Yeah. >> So, uh, moving on to our next agenda item, which is a quick

097report from quick report, please, from the SBU ESD best educational use of facilities. Uh and Jennifer Glenn, I'll leave it to you two to duel out who's going to talk to us about it. >> Um we met again tonight. Uh there are four options. You know, one option we did was the committee meeting. Uh the two options we are going to move forward and kind of look at with the board is to consider closing the Woodford elementary school and contribute those students to five elementaryaries. There are some pieces we have to talk about. Um and the other option is consider to move all sixth grade students from gas rate in middle school but we've seen such a drop in the students um so want to start talking about that probably some budget soon uh and

098do you anticipate that the subcommittee will have a formalized report or set of recommendations to this board by January >> yeah I think those are the two motions we're moving forward with great >> um >> we can talk more about if you want to put it on the list as a talk about those two options and pros and cons and how to get community feedback on those pieces. >> I think we need the the official recommendations presenting the board first and then we'll take those steps. Yeah. Very good. Thank you. Um number nine, the superintendent report superintendent. >> Uh just two quick things. One uh last meeting on the 25th uh I shared I I introduced the interim assistant superintendent Beth Lorge. I just wanted to provide an additional update to this board that Taylor

099Robinson has agreed to serve as the acting principal at Powell. Uh he has been at Pel since 2011. He's been a 12-year teacher there and he became assistant principal. Uh he also served as co-acting principal at Benel for a short period of time in 2022. So I appreciate uh Taylor stepping in as Beth is interim assistant superintendent of the school. >> Great. Um and is it accurate to say that the the assignment of principles and assistant principles is referred to superintendent on the contract? >> Yes, that there is precedent for that. Uh there's been precedent at the elementary level as well. Uh in 2018 co-principles at Molly Stark and in 2022 again Taylor and Ben uh Brown served as co-principles at Bington Elementary. >> One quick question. >> Sure. Is there someone to help out

100as an assistant principal >> at Panel? >> Yeah, >> there is. So, Brent Kip, who was here for the building use uh discussion, he's been designated as teacher in charge, he does have an administrative license through council. >> Great. Any questions for our superintendent? Okay. Uh so that comes to the chair's report. I had one quick question uh under that. >> So the when I when I asked for the it's for the board because this is not a floor meeting because this is not a question and answered options. The question was actually to the other board members if there are any questions for the superintendent. So I appreciate your understanding that the public comment section at the beginning is the opportunity for members of the public to have their voice and to pose questions if

101they want to be answered. We have to limit the back and forth of the of those who are in attendance with the board. >> I understand and you've very successfully done that. Thank you. Thank you for once. We'll see. Okay. Um, any board members have any questions for our superintendent before I move on? >> Okay. So, that brings us to the chair report. Um, and as the the uh posted agenda not notices, part of this will be a statement of clarification about the expectation regarding the pledge of allegiance. Um, I think in order to to best do that, I'd like to take a moment to remind ourselves how we got here to this point. So in late September 2024, there was a request for accommodation for a student to not be present for the recitation

102pledge. This prompt this prompted the principal of Shasbury to reconsider the manner in which the pledge was delivered. He temporarily paused the recitation of the pledge and with input from the superintendent at the time planned to bring together Shaspberry students to evaluate as a school community how the pledge should be recited. Within a few days, on October 2nd, 2024, a Shaspberry teacher made a public Facebook post claiming that the pledge had been banned. This teacher either misunderstood the principal's directions or willfully misrepresented them. But the fact remains that the teacher's claim of a ban was not true. And despite this, that post was shared 194 times. This board met on October 8th, 2024. The chair reiterated that there was never a ban on the pledge. We then enjoyed what I'll call a robust public comment

103set period that lasts nearly two hours. Many of the attendees spoke out against the ban again despite the fact that there never was a ban. At our next meeting on 1112 2024, the board discussed creating a directive for all of our building principles. Elements of what would become our final directive were outlined and the board solicited feedback from principles on proposed directive. At our next meeting, December 17th, 2024, the board passed the following directive. quotes. Instead of doing air quotes, I'll shoot my hands. The pledge of allegiance should be recited daily inside the school buildings before instructional time begins. Sandy made the motion. Cindy seconded it. Four of us voted in favor, one against, and one abstained. So, for anyone who's interested, either here, you can check it out on C anyone listening at Cat

104TV. I recommend if you want to watch that meeting, go to the Cat TV YouTube page. You can search SVUSD12-17-24. That'll bring it to that meeting. At the 21 minute 56 second mark, the the motion was made. And at the 24 minute 48 second mark, the motion passed. So between the board's December 2024 and April 2025 meetings, Sandy and I realized that that phrase instructional time as used in the December directed was not a phrase that was defined anywhere. The phrase classes begin on the other hand is defined in the SBUSD handbook. When this board met on April 14, 2025, the board again discussed the pledge directive. Sandy made the quote motion to modify the directive that we gave at our December meeting to substitute the phrase classes begin for the existing phrase beginning of

105instructional time. Jeff seconded the motion and it passed unanimously by the six members who were present. Again, if you want to look at that meeting, check out uh again on the Cat TV YouTube page, SVUSD4-14-25. Those are your search terms. It'll pull up the meeting. Uh at the at the 31 minute and 1 second mark, the motion was made and at the 35 minute 06 second mark, the motion passed. Um this had the effect of rendering the board's directive to be the pledge of allegiance should be recited daily inside school buildings before classes begin. That was the change that was made at several points. Following the April meeting, the previous superintendent and our current superintendent have confirmed that the pledge is occurring at Shapsbury as this board has directed. That's what gets us to this

106point right now. So, here is my rationale for not bringing the matter to the board for further action. I personally agree that that the school should be a forum in some fashion for the pledge of allegiance. I also acknowledge that there are many reasons why a family or a child would want to abstain from saying in school. I may not agree with or identify with those reasons, but the reasons exist, and the people who hold those views are just as equal stakeholders as are the people who hold other views. The open exchange of viewpoints that we've heard at these meetings has revealed that having the pledge recited during legally mandated school hours, is contentious, and the board should not be cultivating such division within our schools, particularly during those times that children are legally required

107to be present. Because of all this, I am very pleased with the solution that the board has developed. It preserves the custom of saying the pledge in school. It allows a daily opportunity for interested students to say it with members of their community. It occurs before any student is legally required to be present. And it avoids it and avoids creating a situation where a kid has to navigate not saying the pledge when they or their parents have objection. And for anyone who proposes that it's a good learning experience for kids to have to navigate that, I would point out the utter ranker that we have seen exhibited in this room. people shouting, people swearing at kids, people calling names, right? And for us to expect a child to navigate any of that based on the

108behavior of the adults we've seen in this room at times is outrageous. The adults need to figure this out and the board has. The board has figured this out. So our solution, it doesn't please everyone, but no solution will. And I I I just want to extend my appreciation to the 100 plus people who signed on the letter agreeing with the board's directive that has come out. 100 plus people. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Uh but most importantly, and this is why I began reviewing the history, primary push back to what the board has decided seen from the community members who believe that there is a ban. There is not a ban. There hasn't been a ban. any individual who is insisting otherwise seems either to misunderstand what is actually happening or

109is intentionally manipulating other people around them. The board should not be abandoning its carefully thought out directive in order to appease people who are either spreading false information or who are spurred on by false information. And lastly, we've heard from two teachers who have requested that they be allowed to disregard the directive that every other teacher in the ESD has to follow and that they be allowed to lead the pledge as they decide. As a rationale, we have heard that the before classes begin time frame is too busy a time to say the pledge. It's also been pointed out that the pledge takes about 14 seconds to recite. And I would propose that if a person is unable to carve out 14 seconds to say the pledge before classes begin, that reflects a fundamental lack

110of time management skills on the part of that person and is not something that the board is responsible for solving. Nor is it a reason why the board should jettison its April decision. So again, that is a rundown of how we got here and those are the reasons why it has not come back full of the board for discussion. So that brings us to agenda item 11, the FYI. We have the budget status report. We have the treasures report. Um I don't recall the budget status report was posted. I don't recall if the treasur's report was posted, but those are FYI. There was an ex a proposed executive session on the agenda, but we do not have a need for that. So that exhausts our proposed agenda. And um with that, I would entertain a

111motion to adjurnn. Take a motion to adjurnn. Thank you, Jeff. We have a second on that. Okay, guys. Okay. Well, there's nothing else on our posted agenda. Please, >> I guess that's right. Speak. However, you when Michael Gardner went to speak about the tractor, per say, you said that should have been brought up in public comment. Michael didn't know what we were going to say about the track to bring it up in public. >> Sure. Comment and what I said specifically was that this is not a floor meeting. So there's not an opportunity for members of the well the audience but you know members of the public who are here to be asking questions on an ongoing basis on the board. Like the opportunity for public comment is during the posted agenda public comments. >>

112I disagree with you. I I um I don't think that there is a misunderstanding with talking being in Shbury and talking with a lot of people. I don't I don't think that they they feel this ban. I've never even heard anybody up in in Shasbury mention a ban. Um they under a lot of people understand it's a time frame issue and this is really what it is. It's a time frame issue. And I think for you to say that the teachers can't carve out 14 seconds in a day is like poor management. These poor teachers manage everything from like the beginning to the end and then they're there after. And I think it's a complete injustice that we're not listening to the community on what's going on in Shbury with the pledge of allegiance. I

113think it's a complete injustice. We have numerous people here who want to speak and you're not allowing them to speak because they should have spoke in public comment. >> Agreed. Agreed. >> I I think any and I mean I mean I take this one up. Um you know if it's a teacher issue it's a contract issue that is not for us to discuss here. >> This isn't a teacher issue. >> But the teacher is the one saying they don't have time to do it. >> Yeah. I I've never said they don't have time 14 seconds before classes are done. union members are saying that then really what they need to do is as a union they need to talk to union reps. They come to the board as teachers. If they need more time to

114do things in the morning, you know, that's a negotiation. You know, they have a contract. They sign the contract every year um through negotiation that contract. If they need more time, even the teacher units have to come back to the board and say more time in the morning and work out whatever they need to do through contract negotiation. Once again, when we were here in April and this room was filled with people about the pledge of allegiance, trying to get clarification and stuff. This room was filled. It was overflowing. The comment was made and I believe by Sandra that if there was an issue with it, we would revisit it. We haven't revisited it since last April. We've skirted around the issue this that everything. I don't think that we're doing our community and our

115school justice by skirting around this issue continuously. >> And Karen, as I've said before, there's no way we've skirted around this issue. There's no way. We have spent hours discussing hours discussing this. And as I've I mean, I just laid out all the reasons why why I've not brought this back up as chair. We also heard tonight we have a hundred you say people have not been comment contacting about a ban. There have been plenty of people who have appeared in this room saying there is that we we disagree with the ban. So that's part of the narrative. >> That was back in April. >> It continues to be part of the concern. Right? The pledge right now is being said in school every day prior to the beginning of instructional time for any student

116who wants to be right. And I don't know how much better we get with that other than to say it needs to be done during legal school hours. Mary Morsy has a petition right now with a letter and numerous signatures. She can't present it to the board because she didn't make it do it during public comment. >> Mary Morsy wants to wants to give this to the board. Fine. But the opportunity for public comment on this was during public comment. >> So it's you weren't clear with that. >> Well, Michael, >> well, one second. >> Do you want to bring it down? >> This is a board's meeting. Okay. And I think Mary, we have other representatives here in different boards in the town of Bennington and we have Mary's legislator when there's a public

117comment even at the state level when they end it and I mean I think other people can say this the public comment ends. I'm not going to stand in front of the legislative when they're talking the representatives and the senators. You know, once that public comment is closed, I can't make arguments as I can't stand I can't sit in Mount Pillar and sit there and say I disagree what these senators are saying and speak out loud. I will be removed from the room. And I think Mary knows that. You know, people in the town of Bennington when public comment is there that time frame is sacred to public comment. Once the meeting starts, the meeting starts. >> Yes. >> Um, and you don't need to take comment during meeting. Um, I mean that I mean

118that's kind of how it works. And I think you know there are outliers and I think Mary and other people can say there are outliers but it's up to the board to determine that. Yes, the person the chair >> and I and thank you for those for those point and I would say one of the requests that has come and I would also add uh and I'll say this to board members the woman who stood stood up and and said that I didn't uh contact her when I said I would uh for now for the second meeting in a row she has left and I don't believe she's she's left her contact information or name if she does and I've overlooked it I apologize but like I need to know that in order to follow

119up with her and I'll just put that out there but the question has been asked by members of this board by members of the public during public comment Why has it not come up? And I've answered that question. And you don't have to agree with it. I like clearly there are still points of of disagreement on the sport about it. But the fact remains the pledge is being said in our schools every day by any student who wants to. It's happening every day. Right? And I don't know I I don't know what else to do with that other than to articulate the points that I made tonight. Right? And again, I when people tell when members of this board say that they have lots of people contacting them, I believe them. We also have lots

120of people, as we heard tonight, who are in favor of what we've done, right? I think what we need to do is move on as a board. We I'm thrilled that there are so many people who stuck around for all of these aspects of tonight's meeting because at high points, there are some very, very critical things that are that this board needs to be figuring out. That's where the energy ought to be spent and not to and not on this point when again the pledge is being said every single day in our schools by any student who wants to. >> It's happening. So we have nothing else on the agenda. I mean if people want to keep asking me questions they certainly can. If board members want to keep asking me questions they certainly can.

121>> In an act of respect to all the people that stand stand and continue to come here before us. Should we open up public comment again at this point or make a point at which another agenda would include public comment regarding the pledge so that everyone can have their final speak? >> I it's I just don't see it ending. I don't see as much as we agree in our in our process and feeling like we've covered it and I am a person who feels like we've covered like the majority of it a number of times. But that doesn't negate the fact that these people elected put us here for us to deny the questions. That's my personal feel. >> So are you are you recommending that we open up for a question and answer session?

122>> I would or for a public comment session >> public comments se session that need not necessarily be tonight but at another time so that they can have the questions answered. >> So has any board member noticed if any I I know at least one person has left tonight. Do we I I am of a mind to open it up for another round of public comment. It's not going to be public discussion. It's not going to be back and forth. It's not a floor meeting. Like we're not doing it that way. It I would be comfortable with people being given another opportunity to share their perspective on this specific issue. It's not on the posted agenda, but I think because only one person is left, I could be comfortable with that. I would love to

123hear what other people have what other board members have to say about this. the festivity option then discuss and vote on it. >> Well, can we I'm trying to think if we can officially do that or if we should >> then it's an agenda item, >> right? Which >> as much as I want to say this is what we need to do, but that's not the legality of >> right. Let let me ask this of of board members. Is there do do are people comfortable with the notion of reopening public comments right now? >> It doesn't make any sense to open it up and let them talk again and then say to them, "I'm sorry, we can't answer your question." >> So, are you suggesting it should go on the agenda then? >> I I

124think you've told them those so many times and yet they come back. There's always a section at the on the agenda that says, "Is there any other business that come before board?" I don't hear that here. >> Right. And so we talked about this last time, we talked about it earlier. The reason why like a to be announced or other is not on the agenda is because people, the members of the public have a right to know what we're going to be talking about. And if it's not warned, we shouldn't be talking about it. >> We had the clarification tonight. Those six pages that I just read, that's the clarification. It's against the history of where we got here. >> That's yours and that that's what I was responding to. >> I personally think that

125we should listen to them and and discuss it. >> So, who should we listen to? The people in the room are the hundred signatorries that say what we did was the right thing. And this gets to the heart of it, Cindy. >> So, you can go with your hundred signatures that agree with you. We can go with the 200 signatures that want us to revisit. And it it's just >> so I I I've not seen the 200 signatures to answer your question. But like well what I'm saying is there is not community consensus about this. It falls to us to create the consensus. And again our solution I think is the best solution >> because once again the they it should have been brought up during public comment. I didn't understand that. I mean I'm

126still reading all the policies and statutes and everything that y'all gave me because I'm new to this uh game. But um you know I didn't know that if they wanted if they looked through the agenda and they said, "Oh, let's comment on the uh pledge of allegiance, they should have done that in public comment." Thank you >> about the tractor. They should have commented in um public comment. A lot of people, I'm sure, didn't realize that. And I think that if they knew in public comment, I think numerous people would have spoke up and said, you know, what they feel, you know, your opinion is your opinion. my opinion is my opinion which we all need to know. Um, and everybody else has a different opinion here. We're not listening to the opinions. People voted

127us into these positions to listen to them and to hear their needs and stuff. I don't think we're listening to them. I don't think we're hearing them. I don't think we're hearing everybody. >> And I think you >> and that's my frustration on all of it. >> And Grant, I think it's possible to hear somebody and disagree with them at the exact same. >> Oh, I agree. Because I disagree with you. >> Sure. And like and that's like that's how this works. Like that's how this works. >> And and we all voted on it during you know we were all elected in March. We all sat for the first meeting in March. We talked about it in March as a board. We sat here in April. We vote on April. >> But in April you

128said you would revisit it if there was an issue. There's an issue. >> Oh well no there's a disagreement. I think that's different than there being an issue. But there's a disagreement. >> Disagreement. What is >> I think I think that I think there's a there's a big issue. a big difference. >> Yeah. To reach the issue for >> the initial issue that we had in December was the time and I asked that in clarification that's why I stay in that meeting is because I asked the assistant superintendent was here you know what's the start of the day for the teachers and because and she didn't know because the superintendent wasn't here. So, you know, that's why we revisited um and we came up because the because we were told that the start of the

129student day or non-instructional time was released. I said, "Well, when's that start?" >> So, in your opinion, Jeff, we when we did go through this, it was after attendance was K. >> No, I asked No, I I think if you look at that meeting and I asked that question, is the start of the school day at 8:30? And so it's after the 8th >> 8 you know so but I said the pledge should be said it's that we had that debate it should be said before 83 >> and that's where I think that my little bit of different >> I think I just need to go back through and watch it with you and perhaps with you >> and maybe that's what you know we could sit down you can go back to and look

130at because I remember I asked a clarification one point when did the students start the day because I asked both me and tardy and And I said, "If my kid gets there at 8:31, it's my responsibility as a parent be tardy." And I asked I clarify like, "Do the buses get to school at that time at a certain time." It's yes. >> And it was my understanding from that that we decided after the attendance. That's where it seems like there's a little bit of confusion for me. >> I mean, she wants to sit down together at some point and then we can follow with Chris as the board. I mean I think I think you and me because maybe you know >> we I saw two things from two different sides sitting down and looking

131at that. >> Right. So let me I'll just say it again. So on December 17th of last year the motion that was made seconded and passed >> 4 to one to one was the pledge of allegiance should be recited daily inside school buildings before instructional time begins. And they're right there was uncertainty about what that even means before instructional time begins. Right. which is why in April the motion was made, seconded, and passed unanimously to change um instructional time to classes begin. So that what the what the end result was and probably remember these is that the pledge of allegiance should be recited daily inside school buildings before classes begin. >> No, classes begin after that. You just >> No, it's it's right here. The the pledge of allegiance should be recited daily inside school

132buildings before classes begin. I think that's where our differences, but we'll look at it. We'll we'll look at >> and and I would say like like governance, the basics of governance is that you know all these little pieces of conversation we had leading up to the motion and then after the motion was seconded like that all informed what our final vote was. I presume it informed what my final vote was which again was in favor of saying the pledge in school every day. It in those discussions inform what the vote was, but the action that the board takes is what is enscconced in the motion that is made, seconded, and passed by a majority of the vote. That's what it is. It's it's what's in that motion. All the other stuff that took place in

133the conversation if it's not in that motion that passed like it's not part of it like what we are what we are bound to do is the thing that we all voted to do which in this case again is that the pledge to be celebrated celebrated precisely. The pledge of allegiance should be recited daily inside school buildings before classes begin. That phrase classes begin is what's is what's defined in the SVUSD handbook. Happens to be for Shaffbury. 8:30 is when classes begin at Shaffbury. >> That's that's the sticky piece for me. So >> we'll look at it. >> We can look at it then report back to Chris. Sure. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> So I'll ask again. Do we have a motion to I may well there's this this notion on the floor. I

134mean I I would be comfortable opening up the floor for public comment. Again, I have said everything I need to say about this about what got us here and why I have not put it back on the agenda as an action item. >> I consider it. Um but I'd like to put a time frame on it because I do have other things to do from my work that I need to get to. I I think it's reasonable for everyone and so but we haven't got we haven't agreed we like I I see Mary and certainly I'm happy to call on her if we as a board decide we're willing to open this up for for public comment again. >> I mean I'd safely say that you know I need to be out of here by

135at least 8:05 um personally so I can get home and finish my day before tax. >> Yep. >> My personal >> Yep. So it's 7:48. Um so >> any objections to opening this opening this up for public comments? Not question and answer but public comment. So >> any objection? Just a moment please, Mary. For sure. Any objection to that at all? Any Going once, going twice. Very good. Mary Morrisy, how are you? Would you like to say something? >> Well, I was going to say really wasn't public comment. >> Okay. >> Just about forgive me. It's really the process of the board because I do school boards run their meetings different than like a select board because I know our select board has public comment at the beginning of meetings but then they allow the

136public to comment on an agenda item. And that's what I think most of us were thinking tonight instead of just making a comment of that we would be able to speak at the time the agenda item was up. >> Okay. Well, >> and so I'm just asking what is your process in that? >> So, so thank you for that. I would say it it strikes me that most of the people in this room tonight have been to several board meetings at this point. And at no point in any of those other board meetings has there been that that option that you're describing that occurs at the select board. So the way the way that this board is structured is that there's public comment right up front for people to say whatever it is that they

137they want to say and then the board proceeds with this work because it's not an open it's not a floor meeting, right? It's not an open it's not an open process. It is a it is an that is an open meeting but not a meeting of the public if that distinction resonates at all. >> And my only comment would be that um there were close to 200 signatures of people that wanted the discussion reopened and I'm just delivering >> I'd be happy to see I would >> I'm just delivering that message. >> Thank you. >> Um okay Mr. Adams please. >> Good evening Clark Adams. Uh I am speaking of starters but also the citizen here in town uh who serves on the select board. I want to second the mayor's comment. One of the

138things we make quite clear during the select board meetings is if you have something during public comment that is an agenda item that is to be reserved for the agenda item that as the item comes up and public has concerns they are permitted to express their concerns subsequent to the board discussing the item. Uh the fact that we're here in a room listening to our elected representatives discuss something of importance to us without the ability to comment on that is a little worrisome to me. Again, I I did not realize you had your particular set of operating rules. I'm just very familiar with that. The select board and anybody who knows me knows I got a big mouth. The one thing I'm all about is people being able to speak their mind and be heard.

139I know. We have 35,000 people in the area here. We can't listen to everybody constantly, but I think it's very important that people feel they have the opportunity to be to speak and that they will be heard when they do speak. Uh this this public comment issue uh is a bit confounding where you say to someone, well, speak about something on the agenda, but we're not going to discuss it with you. I think we're all here because we're interested in issues and the discussion of the issues whether it be the tractor financing pledge of allegiance those are all important issues to people in this room and I think everyone's entitled to be heard now whether you guys are willing to or able to restructure how you hold these meetings that's something I I would request

140you look at the idea that people have an opportunity to discuss their concerns one of the things you did on a select couple of sessions back. We actually created a listening session where people can come in and meet with the select board and discuss those issues that are on their mind that don't necessarily make it onto the agenda or board and your particular meetings don't feel it's appropriate for them. But I think the most important thing that people in our area here need to hear is that you as their elected representatives want to hear what they have to say and are willing to listen to what they have to say. And you know, I uh commend you on your coherent timeline explaining the process because you're right, there was and probably is a lot of

141I would say misinformation. I don't I haven't encountered anybody who is maliciously propagating falsehood about this soul's pain. And of course, all situations when you push an emotion button, you get emotional responses. And those emotional responses aren't necessarily rational. Doesn't mean they're not valid. And when you operate on emotions, you kind of have to dial it back. So, I appreciate the fact that you gave us a timeline, a coherent clear timeline and clarified issues that I've heard in my multiple capacities in around this town, but I truly truly can't stress the importance in my mind of people being listened to or feeling at least they're being heard. Thank you for your time. >> Michael Gardner Shast. Um, so respectfully as the chair of the board, you should know that if I request for a point

142of information for the question about procedure or facts, I'm entitled to do that. You denied me that option tonight. Normally, in a situation, if you were in the Vermont House, that would generally be reason for you to be asked to resign from your position. Obviously, I think you've done a pretty good job up until tonight. I'm pretty disappointed in how this evening's gone. With respect to what Mr. Adam said, um, under Robert's rules, generally accepted point of information, point of privilege, we are allowed to talk when you reach an agenda item. And I alluded to that in the public comment section. And I thought I was very clear about that. >> I think it would have been a courtesy of you as board chair to correct me if you were not going to allow that

143under under the very specific rules of Robert's rules of orders that would allow a parliamentary inquiry about procedure or fact. These are things that you should know or you should have clarified and I think you've done a disservice to both sides of the aisle tonight by not allowing us to have further discussion. Additionally, there are some questions you need to ask about the tractor. I was trying to be helpful. How many hours a year does it get used? Do they want a hydrostatic transmission? Do they want a gearshift transmission? Do they want a power shift? Do they need a backho? or is it more cost-effective for them to lease it from Browns for $300 a day instead of buying a $13,000 attachment? They didn't buy the John Deere from Salem Farm Supply. They're not a

144John Deere dealer. It came from Stacowsky's in Granville. That's out of business. Did they get a a quote from Townline and Salem Farm Supply? These are basic questions that members of your community who elected you can provide information on and you didn't want to have any part of it. We could have sat here tonight and worked and had a fiveminute conversation with this young lady and answered all of these questions, but your ignorance of the fact that we want to be part of this conversation prevented that from happening. And as a member of a member of Shaspberry, as a member of the board, and somebody that frankly has bit my tongue for over a year and tried very hard to compliment you under the structure of these meetings, tonight quite frankly really pisses me off.

145this did not go how the community on both sides I want to hear their story. I want to hear about those petitions. I want to have a back and forth conversation about this because regardless of the side that you're on, people are pissed, man. We're upset. People in Shaspberry are upset. The culture at the school has shifted. You've alluded to the fact that only two people in the building are upset about this. That is a complete and total fabrication. I suggested and you told me, you know, we can't talk about this stuff at the previous meeting where we talked about this. Why can't you send an anonymous survey to every single person, every adult body in the building and just say, "Hey, has there been a culture shift here? Has something changed?" Because I think

146if you got an honest response to that, you would understand the importance of having this in an open, vetted, professional meeting. And I know because I know a lot of the information about how school boards function. I was on the board. I probably know more about how or almost as much as Renee does about tax rates and how these things work and I'm here to help and you have prevented me from doing that tonight. And I think the board owes the public a chance perhaps without you as board chair to discuss this on a much deeper level because I want everybody on both sides of the aisle to understand the concerns of the teachers to understand that there might be concerns about the culture shift in Shasbury with the current administrator that's in the building.

147There's a lot of things going on that we want to talk about and you guys don't want to listen. That's my public comment. Shirley Adams Bennington just kind of making an observation that I've heard you express excitement about people attending the meetings for a particular topic and disappointment that they haven't stayed. Well, why should they stay if they're not allowed to provide input? So if you really want the community to be involved, maybe let them have a voice. >> What if you're go ahead non-resident >> Jamie first here is just a citizen but I too sit on this board. So, um I and our board functions the same way as the uh what Clark was, uh expressing. Um and I too said that I would wait till that part of the agenda and you didn't

148clarify that you weren't going to allow that. That's where my frustration is deeply on this. Um because I too could offer some input on the piece of equipment. my background in but uh it the other piece as far as the pledge it doesn't sound I I want you please to continue what you stating Andy because after the attendance you know who's in the school say the pledge of allegiance and who chooses to stand stands and says it if your religion or what is your case you wish not to speak it, I'll respect that. But um to I stay before business. Well, how do you know all the buses come yet? Cuz there may be still kids that look forward to saying the pled allegiance because of their family history. And you're denying them that. And

149it doesn't sound like it sounds like it's been hazardly done in Cherry. I know it gets seven pounds. Um because I've asked a lot of students, but it's inconsistent in Chazbury from what I'm seeing. And I know I bring truck the fire truck up for big truck night for 20 years and I go on PA and I said, "Is there anybody out there that wants to help put the flag up?" Because we always put the we raise a large flag with a ladder truck and I get a lot of kids. They help pull the flag out, unfold it, and then at the end we take and respectfully put the flag fold the flag back up and put it back in the truck. And I do I don't beg anybody. I just put it I just

150announce it and the kids come and the kids that want to participate they participate and you know from a long line of military family and so there's a lot of respect that goes into that flag and the symbol of America. So that's just my two cents. >> Kelsey Kenyon. I'm a resident of Arlington. I would like permission to speak, please. >> So, Kelsey, I'm going to see if anyone else wishes to speak. We have an 805 drop dead. I'm >> Hi, director. >> So, hi. I just I want a point of clarification. Thank you very much. I'm neither a young nor a lady, but I really appreciate it. Thank you. Um, I I hear a a lot of people hear about this and it's wonderful to live in a community where where people care and

151people take their time to come to these meetings to voice their opinions. And if we keep arguing about positions, right, like this is this is I'm a Democrat. I'm a Republican. And if we keep arguing about where we stand, we're not going to get to the good meat of what our intentions are. My intention with the tractor, and I apologize publicly to all the people that have to work in the elementary district that don't have the tools they need. Um, my interest is to show all the employees of buildings and grounds, BSD or boards. um the respect they deserve by providing them the equipment they need. I trust their judgment because they're the ones that do it every day. And my intent is to make sure that teachers and students can get in the buildings

152safely. And that's that's my only and so I'm I'm sorry I didn't give you the information, but I'm happy to have those conversations. Um and I don't know what those rules are. I don't know if you can vote again. Um, but I would love the opportunity to get those to give the people that I'm here to support the tools they need to do their jobs and to keep our kids and community safe. >> You do have a hand up on >> I'd like to speak. >> Wow. >> So before before we go to to Carol K03 on there, um, I want to respect that Jeff said he needed to leave by 8:05. If Jeff leaves, we will still have quorum. And so unless somebody wants to make a motion to adjurnn right now, I'm happy

153to continue to allow everyone who's here who wishes to speak an opportunity to speak. >> Just one thing before I go because I I do have to get home. Um if the policy committee is willing to um look into the public comment, look at the policy. It's on there. you know, it's always the, you know, since I've been on the board that, you know, we, you know, at one point we had a closed communication during the meeting that was back probably 2018, you know, that time period. Um, so if we need to look at that closer, we probably should. Um, and maybe see guidance from state on how it should occur. That's what I'd ask to pause to look into because since I've been on the board, it's been the same way. You know, once

154public comments been closed, we've kind of closed it. >> Y. So, yep. But that can be part of sense interpretation, too. So, maybe it's worth looking into. >> Uh, anyone is everyone else comfortable? Do we we we still have work? We still have work. Um, so yes, if anyone else needs Okay, very good. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> Um, what I'm concerned about, I feel very upset about what's been happening here for reasons that are different than have been expressed so far. And I don't know exactly what order to put these in. So, just listen, if you can listen to it as a holistic statement. One of the things I'd like to to say is that we as citizens have responsibilities as well and we have a responsibility I think to know how a particular

155public meetings are organized and it's not the fault of the board that that procedure that's been in place for a long term was following time. And so for us to accuse the board of doing something that was malicious and not wanting to listen to people upsets me a great deal. Having said that, I feel like one of the positive things that's come out of tonight is the board saying that maybe they want to reconsider what the format is and what the policy is that has them operate in the way that they operate in public meetings. Don't know what the outcome of that is going to be, but I think that's an a positive thing that happened. I'm also very concerned about accusing our elected officials who work unbelievably hard on our behalf and to accuse

156them of ill will really is a very disappointing thing. We might think they make mistakes. We might think that they're not well informed on some things, but for us to get a a tone that is telling them that they're not doing due diligence is, I think, a real problem and that we have to learn as citizens how to be able to have civic discourse when we think there are disagreements. And I think that because this issue is so wrought with emotions that many people behave maybe differently in their communication than they might otherwise. But I think we have a responsibility as citizens and as adults to put ourselves in check about that. We can be believe passionately about some things, but they're not always going to happen. And we are not always right in terms

157of what's best for everybody. And what I appreciate about what the board has done so far and you voted on things that I hope you can take some responsibility for and that Chris I think expressed very clearly which is that as citizens in a community we have to and in a democracy >> or constitutional republic. >> Pardon? Sorry. We should not be interrupting each other. Thank you. >> We have a responsibility to allow different perspectives and different beliefs to exist and they don't always get acted out across the community in the way that I might prefer or the way that someone else might prefer. But these guys have the hard hard job of trying to work through what can possibly be something that is fair in the way that it is implemented and uncertainty. And

158listen, I happen to agree. I've been here at many of all the meetings. There's been an incredible amount of discussion about this. I can't accept the notion that people are not being heard. I think we could all get up and give each other's speeches because we know what the issues are and we've heard them again and again and again. So it's this notion of can we accept when something doesn't go our particular way. Can we accept that that can be okay? You can live with it. You may not agree with it, but you can live with it because it has some sense of broader fairness. And that's what upsets me about the way that the sort of conversation and deliberation if I don't think it was a deliberation the way that the conversation went tonight

159and I feel for myself that the run through that we heard about how this board listened and listened and listened and deliberated and thought and came to some kind of resolution that they feel is fair, not necessarily agreement for everybody was a very important and good student. Um, that's sort of my piece. >> I likeed to go to Carol uh Carol KO3 online. Director Gordon, can you give her the floor, please? I think it's a her. >> Unmuted. >> It's a her. It's Kelly Carol. >> Yeah, I can't turn the video on. I don't know if you want to release that or not, but if not, no big deal. Um, but I just wanted to say that as someone who has attended more schoolboard meetings than I ever imagined, all in the hopes of simply

160asking for fairness, consistency, and a moment of unity in our school. And what I've witnessed instead is deeply disappointing. We put the petition in to restore the recitation of the pledge of allegiance, a respectful civic tradition. And that's been a problem at Shaspberry, whether you want to admit it or not, that's been a problem. And even after two board members made a formal motion last month to add it to the the agenda, the chair refused. And it somehow made it to this point tonight. um which I'm grateful for. But you know, I heard that you mentioned a a petition a couple of times um with a hundred signatures probably supporting your position, Chris. I'm not really sure on that, but I think what really really bothers me is that you deflected responsibility by blaming teachers

161for poor time management, >> suggesting that the pledge isn't said because they can't manage classroom transitions. And let's be clear, this is not about time management. This is about overcrowded morning schedules, late buses, especially this time of year, taking attendance, getting in the lunch me um menu, and everything else that goes into getting those teach those students in place. And it's my understanding that the teachers think that they have to say that pledge before that bell rings. And if you just change the wording a little bit before the actual class instruction starts instead of the day or something like that, that might make it a little bit easier. But instead, we have two brave teachers who stood up and respectfully explained this and all of those other times that have been mentioned, but they were

162dismissed. They're scapegoed for telling the truth. And these educators didn't come to play politics. They came to defend what they do every day for our kids. And they deserve better than public blame from the board chair. And this isn't just about the pledge anymore. It's about transparency, fairness, and the silencing of the very people that we trust to teach our children. No person should be allowed to shut down dialogue, especially when the community is respectfully speaking up through proper channels. you want participation in the board meetings, but yet you don't want to listen to anybody other than maybe at the beginning in public comment if that's what um if that's particular to you. I don't know. But it's time that you realize that this is an issue. And it's not just for the teachers, it's

163for the people that do keep coming up and showing up month after month after month to just be dismissed. So, um, all I can say is people have to remember and vote. So, thank you very much. >> We'll look at Liz Duffy who's online. Director Gordon, can you Liz Duffy, please? >> Just ask to unmute. >> Hi. This is Liz Duffy. I'm from Shaffsbury. Um, so I am a parent of a child at Shopsbury Elementary and I signed the petition of the hundred signatures that was brought today in support of the current board policy that had been discussed endlessly for I don't know how many meetings. So it is so disappointing that there are members of our community and staff at our school that are still pushing this issue. There are so many things that

164are so much more important to our students than this issue. Every single student in that school has the ability to say the pledge of allegiance if they wish to. The policy made it clear. It was good. Excellent. I'm going to commend Chris for his excellent work and the board of elected officials who decided on this policy and voted on it. This needs to end, y'all. We're in a community of PE. Our kids are more important than this rhetoric that has been going on for months. Focus on education of our children. That's what you're here for, not something you believe in because it's your political beliefs. Focus on the education of our children. This was voted on. This was supported by the community. parents that actually have children in the schools have spoken out and said,

165"This is fine. This works. This is great middle ground. Let it lie. Go back, the teachers that keep on bringing this up. Go back to teaching our children. Let the board do the work that they're here to do." And I can I'm going to thank Chris for all of his work. I've sat through these meetings. I've seen these meetings. He has handled this flawlessly. It's members of our community that need to get past this and realize that our children are important. Their education is important and this needs to stop. The policy is in place. Let it lie. Go back to educating our children. That's it. >> Dream see if anyone else online. I know we have people. It looks like more than just those eight participants who are there. Is there anyone else? >> If

166anybody wants to be unmuted, just raise your hand and I can do that. >> Stephanie, I'm not sure if that is it an indicator you want to speak. Okay. Looks like you were just supporting the the previous comment. Okay. Um, Director Gordon, anyone else online that you speak? All right, Miss Kenyon, I believe you wish to speak. >> I would love to speak, please. >> Um, so I would just I thank you, uh, Kelly for that. That was great. Um, I'm also incredibly disappointed at your comments directed at my coworker, Mrs. Clark, and I. I manage my time very well. Um, I don't want to toot my own harm, but I'm a great teacher and that was disgraceful. Um, transparency needs to happen. That's what that is. I don't care what side you are on.

167It needs to be transparent. I sat across from my principal a year ago, over a year ago, and he told me I was no longer allowed to say the pledge of allegiance with my class. That was said to me. And the only reason that changed was because there was public outcry. There was uproar. And then you backtracked. You backtracked. There wasn't a ban. There wasn't. Yes, there was. There it would have been a ban had I not and Kathy Clark had we not said something. There are other teachers at Shaffsberry that don't feel comfortable to do what we are doing. I don't want to have to be here. Believe me, I wish Liz was Thank you. I wish I could just go back to teaching my students and I do that every single day. All

168I am asking is for flexibility. We are asked to be so flexible every single day. Yet we are not given that same respect. We are not given an extra minute, a shift in time so that Mrs. Clark can come back from her specials with her students and say it right then as they're doing their morning meeting. Why is that such an issue? the narrative that you presented today that how we got here. Thank you. That was your opinion. You fabricated some of that and that needs to be known. This has gone on too long. I agree. And it needs to end. I miss family time when I'm here. I miss dinner, bath, and bedtime with my babies. Be flexible. That's all we are asking for. Flexibility and transparency. That's all. >> We'll go with Clark

169first. >> Okay. Very short and sweet. Not usually me, but you can't have it both ways. you can't have before classes begin and also allow all students to have the opportunity to say the pledge because the students aren't there. So there's several students just in my classroom alone, three of them who do not get there till right at 8:30 and they walk in my room and we have already said the pledge. You can't have before classes begin and also allow for everybody to say the pledge. It's not possible. and I am a very wellorganized teacher and I invite you to come to my classroom and personally see it. >> I had no intention of talking tonight. I came for the budget reasons. I'm in every building. The pledge is said at different times in other

170elementary schools. You have it said here as policy, but I've been in other buildings when it at a different time. and to accuse these two teachers who are my former peers in that building that they are not organized or not flexible or don't have the time to squeeze in 14 seconds is very upsetting because I would put these folks up there as top-notch teachers. >> So that's all I have to say. >> I'm sorry. Could you just state your name in the town you live in? Ron Mustang and I'm the district math coach and I am in various buildings and this policy is not the same in every building. Uh so my name is Rachel Blendal. I live in Sherry. Um and I do support the policy the directive that this board the discussion on

171the directive. I think the issue for me lies in there's the policy which I think is the board's responsibility but implementation is a different issue and I think that's where we're getting stuck in a lot of this discussion. I don't think that's necessarily the board's issue. I think that maybe the superintendent and building administrators and and definitely needs to be a conversation, but I I do feel that that this board gave a directive that allowed or as a compromise so that everybody's needs and rights were were respected. So I would like to see this issue taken off of the board's plate and put back in and look at implementation. And I do think in how my understanding of schools would be a superintendent and building administrator with teachers, but the but the directive as it

172sits I think is right on the M, you know, is as good as it would ever get. I think it's a no-win situation all across. I think it really um I give them a lot of credit for being able to take a really difficult thing and make a policy that at least gave a vision of what it should look like. So I think what you're looking what you're talking about is implementation different directed. So yeah, that's Stephanie. >> Thank you. So Stephanie online, please. >> Hi. Sorry, I didn't mean to do the thumbs up earlier. I meant to put my hand up, but apparently I'm Zoom Zoom illiterate. Um, okay. I feel like uh I am a uh board member of Mount Anthony, but I'm speaking as a member of um you know, as a

173resident of Shasbury. My my children went to Shaspberry School. uh they had the benefit of having Kathy Clark as a teacher. Uh what I want to say is several things. Um respectfully, we are in contract negotiations. Um if there's negotiations around what is happens during the school day with teachers, that is also a forum to have some discussions. The discussion around the pledge, um I've heard from community members. I am not on this board. I have heard from community members in Shaspbury that are completely opposed to having the pledge said at all at school. Um I think that what the board did is a good compromise allowing for all parties. I think it is really unfortunate. Um, part of the reason that I think a lot of people don't show up to advocate against your

174or advocate for the policy that's in place is because this has been so closely tied um with like if you don't want your children to say the pledge in the school or you're okay with the children not saying their pledge in the school that you don't support veterans. Like I don't I don't feel that that's actually the case. like, you know, I think every person that has advocated for not saying the pledge in the school, they're not saying that they don't support the veterans. They, you know, report or support every person that show that has showed up and um, you know, should be honored for defending our country and our constitution. Um, so I I think that this is a good compromise. My children went to Shbury. It had a great culture. I have heard

175from people that the culture of the the school, you know, just because people have loud voices doesn't mean that that's the only voice in the school. There are other people I'm sure that have and I've heard from that feel that it is negatively impacting their children's education, the amount of toxicity we recently um you know I went to a board training recently. One of the things that they focused on was it's about the kids. And I just would ask this community like is this argument right now about the kids and if it is then I think we should have a whole community forum like whole SPSU wide community forum on it. But if it's not I think we should figure out a way to be okay with um something that that uh allows both parties

176to uh function in the school and move on. Sorry for my long-winded statement. And >> thank you. Anyone else who's not already spoken? >> Final words. >> Again, Michael Gardner, Shaspbury, Vermont. And and really, I think a lot of what Stephanie's talking about, other people have spoken about are very important things. For me, this isn't just about the pledge. This is about administrators telling teachers how to run their classrooms. And if we trust our teachers to run their classrooms, then maybe that's part of the relationship and why some people are so upset. And it's also simultaneously about the pledge and about the timing and about the fact that buses coming from East Road and coming down Buck Hill don't get there till 8:35 on days like we have this morning. It's about basically implementation versus

177policy and having flexibility like our teachers have been talking about >> because you're going to have some administrators that are very rigid and unwilling to bend and others that perhaps can find a gray area in something. And much to what Stephanie said is clearly and as I said earlier, we're still all pretty upset no matter what side we're on. So not having the discussion is not doing it for us. Lastly, I have never and I have sat on school boards and I've been involved in school boards for 25 years have I ever heard the chair of a school board publicly admonish two teachers in a public setting in my entire adult life. And I would provide you this opportunity before I ask the board to take action against you to apologize. I think it would

178be appropriate and I think it's something that would lend to some healing in this conversation so we can have additional conversations. So we've exhausted public comment. I'm going to propose this to the board that I make one and only one statement to our public participants who are here and then we move to adjourn because we are what we well exhausted. I think we can ask our superintendent or we could ask them ourselves. We're done with the agenda. Here's this. Never once has have I or any member of this board said that you guys can't find time in the morning before classes begin for the pledge to be said. No one has ever said that about a teacher. That has been an argument that has presented been presented by staff that they can't do it before

179classes begin because it's too hectic. My statement tonight was in response to that. It did not originate with me. It did not begin with me. I did not bring it up. It was a response to something that has been said in public in public comment earlier before tonight. So that exhausted and I would welcome a motion to adjourn. >> Ajourn. >> Okay. Thank you Sandy. We have a second. Thank you. We have a first and a second. All those in fa any discussion about adjourning hearing none. All those in favor please sign Oh. All of those in favor adjourning, please signify by saying I. >> I. Any opposed? Any abstensions? We are adjourned. I would ask that anyone who happens to know can remind me of the name of the woman who left who commented

180on Norman Blank's health. >> I will. Thank you very much.