001good evening and welcome to the Tuesday September 12 2023 meeting of the Ashland zoning board of appeals in accordance with the governor's order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general laws chapter 38 section 20. this public meeting is available in remote form and please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast by waca our local cable television channel as indicated on the agenda notice um the link to the meeting is posted both online and the uh uh telephone first order of business will be to call the meeting to order take a roll call by John trafeden and president I'm Nathan Vanden present hi Stuart Siegel and present okay very good um next item on the agenda is election of officers pursuant to chapter 40a section 12. a zoning board of appeals
002shall elect annually a chairman from its own number and a clerk because our terms start on September 1st this is our first meeting in the new year and thus we have to have a an election um the chairman and the clerk must be members but associate members are also allowed to participate and vote in the election process um any questions or discussion about that are we allowed to nominate members not present today um you know that's a very good question I I see no I see no reason why we can't um however that's not something that is addressed in the statute um it might prove reason for people to make sure they attend the meeting so it doesn't happen to them but I don't know um with all that levity uh being said would somebody
003like to make a motion or nominate someone to be uh chairman for the coming year I now made John McPherson deserve another term as chairman of the company the second combination okay uh all in favor say I guess I I joined a feather vote I I understand aye Stuart Siegel vote I okay and next we have the position of clerk uh would anyone like to uh nominate someone to be Clerk I would nominate Nathan band to be Clerk is there a second I would second that if Nathan wants that position sure given the fact that we always have the services now of Alvaro or the assistant Town planner I'm not quite sure what the clerk what the clerk's Duties are anymore for us so I guess in lieu of Alvaro not showing up some night
004you'll have to step in and run the meeting um but I joined to feather and vote in favor of Nathan is Clerk hi Nathan bam vote in favor hi Stuart Siegel also built in favor excellent now that we have all of those formalities out of the way and thank you for um nominating me once again I guess um we'll go on to item number three on the agenda which is the public hearing involving 29 hard work Road and their application for a special permit uh this notice was published in the Metro West Daily News uh over the course of two weeks and I'll read the notice briefly the Ashland zoning board of appeals will hold a public hearing to hear the petition from Michael in my jury raw of the raw living trust they actually
005are Trustees of the raw living trust requesting an accessory family dwelling unit special permit for chapter 40a section 6 of the Massachusetts zoning Act in chapter 282 section 7.6 parenthesis accessory family dwelling unit close parenthesis and 9.3 parenthesis special permits close parenthesis of the Ashland bylaws the property in question is located at 29 Hardwick Road assessors map 19 lot 01900-0037 in the residential a zoning District um as previously noted before we started the meeting I note that uh Mr and Mrs rare are present and also Steve camoli who is going to be making the presentation on behalf of the applicant books oh sorry about that I will uh Steve okay let me just explain a little bit about the process that we're going to have we we always ask the uh the applicant of the
006applicant's representative to uh State their case as it were and tell us what whatever it is they would like us to uh consider uh board members will have an opportunity to ask questions thereafter uh once that is concluded we will uh open it up to the public for public comment I see that at the moment we have one member of the public observing the meeting um once that is done we'll members will have an opportunity to ask any additional questions um the applicant have an opportunity to State anything further that he or she wishes to State and then the board will discuss discuss the matter uh and see where where we go uh three members or three people a board members sit on the hearing and fortunately we have three this evening so I John
007traven Nathan band and Stuart Siegel our associate member will be uh sitting uh on the uh hearing this evening um and after all of that long-winded um be it um Mr gamoli if you would like to um proceed uh thank you very much chairman now nice to see the board tonight as well as alvero thank you very much for a super job and helping our office um get through this process we really appreciate that um so as is stated um Mr and Mrs RAW live at 29 Hardwick Road in Ashland and we're looking to build for them uh I'm a building contractor 29 years in business we're looking to add an accessory dwelling for Mike's parents um who are somewhat elderly and want to be closer to them as they move up from I believe
008Virginia the uh the addition itself consists of 768 square feet plus or minus there is a separate one car garage as well the addition the accessory dwelling consists of a rear entry um a kitchen living room bedroom and bathroom the architect that we use Thompson Architects out of Hopkins and we do a tremendous amount of work with them they're very professional and this was deliberately designed so that it's basically aside from the new garage it's all in the back of the house out of view from the street um and all on all on one level because the folks are in fact elderly um again we think it's a tastefully drawn addition um and that's about all I have to say initially okay very good um Nathan do you have any questions at this time um
009I'm hoping the applicant could just walk us through the plans that were submitted so that we can see you know I am by no means an expert in this get a sense of where the addition sits relative to the rest of the house because I'm looking through these plans and I can't quite tell what's original and what's uh proposed to New Edition absolutely I'm not alone in that respect Nathan uh well thank you and and great uh great question uh do you have this um the survey from glm um the engineering firm that did the um that did the work for us there um if if you have that um actually do you have that we have I think a nine page document from Thompson Architects yep and yeah we have a one-page survey from
010glm okay great so if you look at the one-page survey from glm um you can see the main house um pretty long um somewhat deep that's really right in the in the front or in the in the front center of the plan the addition itself um if you look at and hopefully your screen is showing it it's a darker area first if you look out in the in the back you'll see the Shaded area where the addition is proposed and then the new addition and driveway extension uh to the immediate left of the house could you share your screen Sir with us I don't have it on um my home computer here um elvaro do you have the ability to put the um the glm proposed Edition plan up so we can all see it
011perhaps yes I'll put it on in a second thank you there once he puts it up I'd be again happy to explain uh what we'll look at what we're looking at okay can everybody see it yes uh thank you perfect um so members of the board uh if there you go and Alvaro can you can you zoom in on that a little bit there you go okay um so for everyone can see that okay um you can oops sorry about that my computer was bugging but now it should be fixed oops keeps bouncing on us okay yeah there we go we can we can see that now thank you Alvaro um so if you see the big block in the middle you can see the word uh words existing dwelling um that's their existing house
012and you can also see the existing driveway off of Hardwick Road um if you look in the back left corner of the house protruding to the rear you can see the see the addition not to be confused with um immediately to the right of the addition there's an existing patio and to the right of that is an existing open-air deck so that's already already existing this is just a new structure um that's that's drawn in there and then like I said before if you look them to the left of the existing dwelling you can see where the new garage is proposed to be added on and of course the garage to get there we have to connect the existing driveway to the um to the new garage the kind of L-shaped shaded portion behind the
013white block that's the addition and is the new garage going to be integrated into the existing garage is it basically another Bay on on what's there yeah I'm sorry and this is why your your voice wasn't really clear so I wasn't able to understand what you said sorry can you hear me better now that's better yeah sorry about that yeah the the garage will be an extension of our current garage and for my in-laws to get to the garage they will have to go through our house there's no doorway from their addition into the garage they have to come in through our house through the mud room and then out because it's connected through our mudroom so are we actually looking at two projects then an accessory drop dwelling and a uh an addition on
014the garage not really um well I mean I guess technically yes because the the the new garage doesn't um lead anyone into the new accessory dwelling it's just an extension of the existing garage on the home are you able to pull up page A1 of the nine page architectural drawings yes I can do it give me one second uh which page sorry page A1 A1 it's it's the second it's the next one after the cover page there you go so on this page you can see the office right there at the front in the lower right hand corner that's the existing house right behind that you can see the mud room and a half bath that's the existing house and the mud room is also our laundry room and then we have a back door
015there that goes down the stairs to that patio that was in the back so that already exists and we will be connected to them through the laundry room so they'll have access to our laundry room and our mud room and our house in that area and then we'll share that back doorway and does these 700 something square feet that you quoted include the garage space or is that in addition it's in addition so the 768 is uh is just the living area correct okay so then you can see where the kitchen is the kitchen island and then there's a living space the walk-in closet the bedroom and the bathroom off the back of the garage there that's the addition all right I think that's all I have for now uh thank you there's still questions
016yes uh while we're on this um diagram could you show the um exterior exit that the in-laws would have to the outside not going through the mud room and the garage yes if you can't see it on the screen we'd have to it's on page A4 yeah you want the elevation view or the floor plan view uh you can stop that one that's good A4 um there's a second means of egress right there you see on the left side there's a patio door so there's um really three means of egress technically I mean you've got the stairway going down to the back patio the entrance into the existing mudroom slash laundry room and this um this patio door here that leads to or will lead to some sort of a walkway yeah right now it
017just goes to the backyard right well that would be one of my concerns would there be a a viable walkway along with you know structures for supporting the uh folks to actually get in or oh yeah so we're planning to put a sidewalk that will go around to the garage into the driveway the patio paver sidewalk uh would would that be a good choice in in terms of let's say God forbid you know they you're in-laws would have to have you know wheelchair access or something like that would it be would you be able to use that type of uh you know help there's not enough patio favors would it be smooth enough and yeah it's the elevation is so much elevation between the driveway and where that interest would be and to get from
018the garage to our main house it's only two steps right now which we could probably reconfigure if we had to to build some pepper ramp as well okay so you have like handicap access you know planned out or it would fit into this design yeah if we needed to yeah that's why we decided to put the French doors there because um that way he won't have to go down the stairs in the back he can come out that side door and walk around without having to go downstairs okay that was one of my concerns yeah thank you thank you just so you know Mike's father is 89 and his mom is 85 and so 86 so we've thought out this pretty well right that's why the single level and you know designing the bathroom it
019could be wheelchair accessible if necessary fine thank you you're welcome yeah um I do have a few questions um and I want to just sort of make sure that all of the requirements of the section 7.6 of our zoning actor are covered uh uh I know we talked about the separate um Ingress and egress uh which you just talked about and that would be the the state the patio entrance way am I correct on that okay uh and the there has to also be a connection between the existing house which should be where you're living and the new accessory unit and that is if I looked correctly on form A1 as you said that's found by the mud room and it connects the mud room into the kitchen and the new accessory unit am I
020reading that plan correctly yes correct okay um one of the one of the provisions in the ACT is that the square footage of the new build of the new unit and exceed 25 of the existing unit or 800 square feet whichever is greater and I guess you said it was 768 square feet so you'd be coming in just under the uh the 800 um square feet is that correct correct sir okay and that doesn't include the the garage the additional garage space correct because that's uh the garage of course is unconditioned space right okay and with respect to watering sewage there has to be adequate provision made for that in looking at the uh the town residential property record card it looks like there's Town water and also count sewer is that correct that is
021correct um does your house have central air conditioning yes and is the new unit going to be included in that central air conditioning unit or is there going to be a separate um central air unit for that yeah there's there's a separate HVAC system for the accessory dwelling uh really for two reasons on the customer's side for comfort uh on the construction side really an A and A B reason a it would be taxing too taxing for the existing system and B with the new newest energy codes um the accessory dwelling it's actually required now to have its own HVAC unit where is that going to be located on the property um we haven't just officially decided I mean if it's if it's you know we have we have one of two choices and this
022will be something that the Roz will have to decide in time we're either going to do many splits but we're going to do just a typical ductwork system uh either way the condenser is very small and it will be um it'll be out back behind the addition the one one single condenser and it's a small one probably two and a half feet square okay um have you talked to any of your neighbors about what you're proposing to do yes yes and any concerns that any of them may have may have expressed they've not expressed any to us no okay good I drove by the neighborhood today and it's certainly a lovely neighborhood thank you thank you um let's see is there anything else given the age of um your um your parents I'm assuming that
023there's not going to be a significant traffic added to the neighborhood no not at all okay uh with respect to impacts in the natural environment I know you had to go before the Conservation Commission to get approval for what you wanted to do and um trying to decipher WPA form five is uh an interesting process but it looks like they they granted you approval and obviously if we were to to Grant a special permit that one of the conditions would be that you had to comply comply with that um okay I don't have anything anything further at this point Nathan or Stu any further questions no I have nothing further none here okay um then why don't we um why don't we open the uh the hearing up for public comment uh and if anyone
024any member of the public wishes to be heard please um oh Mr desoni you don't raise your hand you know how to use the uh the hand on the screen you're an experienced uh participant in this um Mr desoni we will recognize recognize you for public comment but thank you good evening not sorry for an eye Hawthorne Road and um I want to give I want to give the full credit to Mr Mrs raw for doing this with their parents because it's it's worthwhile to know that the name will carry on with respect for the house is going to have a parental signature around and okay so what I want to ask is about the is about the um George patio is um it's going to be good for three seasons fall summer and spring
025would it be ready for them in case they're there for the winter is it going to be excess for that that's my only question I'm sorry Mark I didn't quite understand that the question is it going to be no I'll say it plainly but they want to put up open space outside is it ready to be year-round use the addition will be for year-round use yes the deck that we have existing is I mean we use it it's just an existing deck that comes off the back of our house but the addition will be for year round occupancy yeah and and in terms of of um you know weather year-round use um uh Mr Scott The Building Commissioner has reviewed the plans and everything is in compliance with Ingress and egress and all of that
026stuff or anything to uh you know cover well there'll be a um an overhang soffit um at both uh both uh entry exit points yeah for play users this this would be it buddy what is socket um so uh so a fascia and soffit if you can picture on your house where the gutter is the gutter attaches to uh the fascia and in the piece underneath it's about a foot uh that's called the soffit so it does provide some protection uh from the elements when you're trying to get in and out of the door so it was an outdoor overhang correct yep thank you okay thank you um Mark um is there a motion to close public comment please so moved and is there a second I second that motion okay I joined to seven
027uh vote in favor of closing public comment hi Nathan van vote in favor hi Stuart Siegel also built in favor of closing public comment okay um we now usually go not into deliberations but into uh discussion while the hearing remains uh open so that we can ask any questions uh as as needed um I I will go first um you know I see no reason why we shouldn't approve this it seems to meet all the qualifications of the uh of the statute 7.6 under accessory family dwelling units I know it's something that's gotten a fair amount of publicity in the uh Commonwealth in the last year or two about increasing housing availability and the Ashland zoning bylaws have permitted this for a number of years now and we have granted applications obviously we would put
028conditions on it which we would discuss but to me it seems like it's something that we would we would Grant Nathan your thoughts yeah I think this meets the uh the requirements of the Town zoning bylaws I think it's consistent with our past practice to Grant a special permit here um I think and this may be getting ahead of ourselves a little bit but when we talk about drafting the decision I think I view this as two separate projects I still think it's the garage and the accessory building and I think the garage is as a matter of right they could build right it's really just the accessory building piece of it yes that's that's what I've seen the accessory dwelling unit the garage is not really not relevant and accessory dwelling unit right I
029don't think okay Stuart your thoughts no I I I I agree I would also be in favor of the special permit as presented okay um then what we normally will do um Mr and Mrs raw and Mr kamoli um is we will ask Alvaro to draft a decision uh in accordance with what we've talked about this evening uh and come back at our next meeting to review the decision and to take a vote to approve it uh and our next meeting would be two weeks from tonight which would be September 26th you don't have to be present but you're more than welcome to obviously uh and Mr camoli the same to you um I do think it would be helpful for us at this point to just go over and make sure we have the
030eyes dotted and the t's crossed for Alvaro to put into the decision and looking at section 7.6 um obviously we would put in the usual conditions or restrictions uh we're only uh additional family dwelling unit can't exceed for people can't be rented out um Etc just basically the qualifications of the restrictions in um 7.6 uh yeah and then under Section 9.3.2 the criteria for special permits um we will all the decision will also have to contain the findings on that um and we have to have a written determination that the adverse effects of the proposed use will not outweigh its beneficial impacts to the town of the neighborhood in view of the particular characteristics of the site and of The Proposal in relation to that site uh obviously previous decisions uh for accessory dwelling units
031I have included language to meet that requirement and then with respect to the six specific categories Community needs served by the proposal would be um maintaining housing or creating housing for families to stay together traffic flow and safety including parking and loading would be no impact adequacies of utilities and other public services it's serviced by Town Water and Sewer neighborhood character and social structures as the application States it's a single family neighborhood and which architecture would certainly seem to fit within that character impacts on the natural environment apart from what's found in the Conservation Commission that would not seem to be any and potential fiscal impact including impact on Town Services tax base and employment uh your tax bill is going to be raised uh there'll be certain construction employment architectural employment Etc which is
032a good thing a temporary and there would seem to be little impact on Town services so anybody Nathan understood you want to add anything to that for a borrow to make sure he puts in the draft decision anything else we you need from from us before you start to draft the decision as far as findings that we need to make no I think I'm all set as well thank you okay excellent okay then um I'd entertain a motion to continue the hearing to our next meeting on September 26th so most is there a second I second that one okay hi John Hunter feather and vote in favor aye Nathan Dan put in favor hi Stuart Siegel vote in favor you know we had our our voting all organized so well and we just went boom
033boom boom Brian not being here tonight it's totally thrown off our timing just me and Stu in a stare down every time we have to make a motion you know waiting for the other one to Blink all right no now that you you've risen to the authentic position of clerk we need to make sure that you're not scared by making a motion but that's all right um very good with that nonsense out of the way uh we had done for this evening with your uh matter Mr Mrs raw Mr can only thank you for participating as I said we'll be back on September 26 to uh finalize the decision in vote in favor then the process is once that's done we have to sign the decision that sometimes can take a couple of days because
034we do this Museum Zoom but we have to go in person to town hall to sign it you'll then file it with the it gets filed with the town clerk you have to wait 20 days thereafter in case anyone appeals the decision uh after that 20-day period the decision is final and you take it to the registry of deeds and record it and I'm sure Mr camoli knows the drill very well and and guide you through all of that but we are done with the hearing for this evening and we can move on to our next item thank you very much thank you very much thank you folks have a good night take care um next item on the agenda is the meeting minutes for July 25th 2023 um Alvaro sent us all a a
035draft um I made several small uh changes um Alvaro did you receive any other changes no only the ones that you sent John okay um what I suggested was on page one uh of the giraffco where 17 Loring Drive variance Dash accept decision I suggested that the words accept decision should be stricken the second paragraph under that section uh I suggested deleting the word meeting and substituting the word hearing was opened on July 11th because it was a hearing that was open not the meeting and then on page two on the and I guess it's like the 11th line where it says Mr Forest all motion to Mr ban seconded rather than say to accept I suggested it should be to approve the variance those were the only suggestions suggested changes I had made any
036discussion about those it sounded good to me okay somebody wish to make a motion to approve the minutes is amended I moved to approve the minutes as amended I second that hi John traven vote in favor ay Nathan Benjamin in favor aye Stuart Siegel phone in favor excellent that is completed and moving on to the final item on the agenda staff updates and administrative matters uh Alvaro anything to report in that category not updates in just to give you a heads up I'll be sending probably the decision by next Tuesday um just because I'm out of our conference the next couple of days oh very good I hope you enjoy your conference thank you um yes dude Mr chairman I have a kind of a an administrative item um when we go through this um
037when we went through the special permit there's something that was of a concern with me um the letter from the building inspector um the planning office refers to that as a denial letter now there's nothing in that letter that denies anything um I recommend that we change the nomenclature of that [Music] um letter to actually be in something like an Adu um approval conditions and requirements letter because that that's what it really States in effect well but it's the application is being submitted for a building permit which is what is being denied and referred to the zoning board of appeals well that's what I don't understand we're not denying anything no one denied anything well the Building Commissioner did the Builder commissioner denied them a building permit for what they were proposing to do because
038they had to get the approval of the zoning board of appeals exactly so the letters should not be a denial he should just say it should be he should issue an Adu approval conditions and requirements letter in other words his letter is telling them what is the next steps in the process to get this project approved well perhaps we can talk to the Building Commissioner offline and see what he's comfortable with I know his letters are a little more detailed than um letters from A couple of our prior building Commissioners um he's just really saying hey folks I've got everything that you submitted but there's another requirement here and an addition that you have to meet and the condition is that you have to go before the CBA it doesn't mean that the ultimate you
039know project is going to be denied I mean that's a very scary word to use well his letter tells told mizra that if she felt aggrieved by his decision she may file an appeal of his determination yeah well he's denying their request I don't read it as denying the request and that's what I wanted to express I don't know how the other members of the board feel about that he he's really the way I read it is he's telling them that they have another step to follow but he didn't take those architectural plans and say denied he never said anything about that he just said hey you got to go through another step well the only reason he asked if they had to go through another step is because he did not he was denying
040what they requested I'm sure he no the finals the Bible approves many many building permit requests that never come before us um and that he doesn't deny you have to go through another process for the uh special apartment it starts with the denial from The Building Commissioner of what they have filed with him um but let's talk about this with the Building Commissioner offline uh and see what how how he's comfortable what he's comfortable in in doing I uh I must say I don't I don't share your concerns about that but this might just make two cents um any anything else Nathan anything to add or we all said not is there a motion to a journey nobody wishes to adjourn Nathan just requested to be admitted I assume that there are some sort of
041issue going on on his computer oh Harry is coming back yeah I think he lost his audio I apologize soon it keeps crashing for me here that's that's all right we were I was asking for a motion to adjourn but I also asked him I think you may not have been with us when I said if asked if you had any any comments and what Stu and I had been discussing um my only thought on that is I think a building commissioner's denial is probably a term of art within the zoning process and if we start calling it something else we may run into other issues um and so maybe the issue is just the Building Commissioner needs to be more clear in his letter that it is a denial and that the next step
042isn't appeal to the CBA that might be a good a good point to get the word Denial in the letter and uh that will then serve as a a clear statement that it's a denial even if he then goes on to say this is what you need to do good point is there a emotion to adjourn so moved is there a second a second emotion okay aye Johnson vote in favor I didn't bend vote in favor I Stewart siegelbone in favor good night everybody see you on the 26th and Waka thank you very much good night all have a good night good night