Design Review Committee Meeting August 8 2023

001or you can just click on that it I just found it thank you it's under more on my computer anyways I uh wrote to Helen who wrote to Joan uh and she sent me a bunch of pictures so that was really great and some of them are say we can only wish that that stuff would be in our town right now I think that's our goal perhaps it's certainly mine um I'll try to organize this Kev can you pull up the report and um and then we'll start working off of the documents I guess you know trying to show both of my screen um oh you have to allow me to share come on I could share screen I need to let you do that host YouTube okay I just made you a co-host all

002right stop sharing sharing for a second okay I want to change what's showing on my screen oh yeah okay so I have your minutes Kathy on the right here and so I'm hoping we can do some copy and paste thing or editing to both at the same time um it looks like you have the majority of um the discussion that might be better in the report I don't know if you want to duplicate any of this but um well yeah there is some stuff in there um for sure I was kind of thinking that we should have the report be the report and then the minutes are kind of short actually for the meeting because we mostly talked about the project and and that subject matter should be in the report more so than the

003than the minutes um yeah or we might want to embed the report in these minutes and I and we definitely need a list to a company the report this time or to be at the bottom of it because I think um they didn't get everything that we talked about um and I forget I went back through some stuff and I went oh bummer they didn't get this they didn't get this it wasn't from the last time it was from us because we even put all the stuff in I don't think we weren't clear and I think we have to be clear um and then um Okay so I'm not sure how you want to start or what you think would be the best way to do this do you have comments on your stuff because

004it's so much shorter than mine you want to use your stuff first or you just want to use the minutes um well I think we can start by just going through the report one one item by you know item by item um in particular the ones that we had noted and read for the applicant to respond to um but it well okay so item number 1-8.1 this was just a note um about the the state of the project in terms of the terms of the far do we want to keep this in so actually I need to call this report number two and the meeting date was August 3rd and we haven't submitted yet but I will add that date when we do um you might want to revise this great so do we want

005to take items out that were just notes in the previous report or or leave it in go like this this first item we didn't address this in this past meeting this most recent meeting but you sent the report right yeah this the report was sent um so the idea was that in the subsequent report so this report number two we would add information um to each item based on what was discussed in that in that meeting so so for example [Music] um the most recent meeting was eight three we had discussed on 6 15 this item about provide more information how storm water is treated and so in this most recent meeting we discussed it further and we noted that here so we should keep this entire item in the report keep it off I

006I wouldn't take stuff out necessarily you could just say has been met or they do something like that so there is a June early June gcg report that I found under planning board documents today so it has the August 3rd stuff that we just got plus that is like right below it um and um so you want to you want to say um we should just put the current date on all sorry uh Kathy I think Brendan is waiting in the yeah I just got him okay I've been allowed in um yeah I think we should leave it in because they just say something like um has been met or satisfied and you keep on going um and I would have to go back to an older project and look right now but I think

007we can say um you know if you've got something in there that says um let's see how do we do this what was the red the red was the new stuff everything that's read in this report was an action item that we were expecting the applicant to provide further clarification on or provide a document um at the 8-3 meeting so we should we should certainly provide an update on each of those yeah I think if we fill this up with updates we're in trouble so we got to think about a better way to do this I think if it you have written for instance up there maximum fire is 1.5 for proposed project fires one and if the and if the far is of is as of right that's the comment that's the I think

008that's the final yeah that was the comment so maybe we don't right below it right I don't think we need anything there I think we because otherwise we'll have tons of those and people won't read it and the idea is to get this to be read okay all right so I haven't added anything on this item yet so um this project I I looked at the Civil drawings today and the the height of this building in the middle Peak is 45 feet and the other two are lower but they're not much lower so I am once again I'm I just sent everybody the streetscapes and Falmouth and Plymouth by the way John Good Friday was talking about last time and honestly I look at those streetscapes and I go why aren't we doing stuff like

009that here and why are we even so still crowded up against the sidewalk and we literally go out to the to the envelope as far as the envelope will allow for our buildings so what I was starting to say about the TCG reporters they're they're way according to our rules they are way under for the amount of parking they're supposed to have for this project which means they're getting a massive um special permit uh they're asking for a massive special permit okay on doing that basically your dispensation if you will and um I don't know if this project is doable by pushing this building back farther it's going to make that second floor patio a lot smaller you might have been pushing the facade back and losing it you know some of the units in

010it or I'm looking at this on well during the meeting and I saw that they they needed 27 um dedicated commercial parking spaces and after the I think 0.625 reduction [Music] um well that was after that's after the reduction but then they were only showing 22 in the plan so that's true what's that they're still short and apparently a couple of those spaces number 17 and I don't remember seeing numbers on the parking spots number 17 is too small but it might be a style down below and I didn't check that when I looked at how the turning radius was supposed to happen for that fire truck and you know if their walk if they're driving slowly because they're done with their fire great but if there's a fire in the back there they're not

011going to be driving that slowly and that corner one of those Corners where they could potentially have a vehicle parked it's it's really tight it's that corner in the back somebody commented on it at the meeting thought it was you within the parking garage no within the drive lane on the surface and so I'm just wondering like I don't think that was my comment I don't remember who said that well you know they were saying they can't put canopies over the parking spaces because they don't have proper fire access then I'm wondering how much bigger are those canopies supposed to be if that's going to impede into that space I think a fire truck can drive under a canopy they just didn't want to spend the money on on building it yeah well that's why

012I was trying to get some ideas about how much it would cost oh something else I did that was yesterday's project which I didn't get very far but you know the comment that was made to me eventually was well if the ground's all broken up it's not that much more expensive put it in um so anyway um this is architectural this first heading is architectural and well architecture and building orientation yeah I still think it's too close to the street I don't think we're gonna get anywhere of that and I think this that I mean stuff and found as I just sent back in there they sent two different um files one from Fallout the one from Plymouth and I just put them all in the same zip file they show two different places in

013both of those towns where there's like walk through breezeways where the buildings come together and um one of them looks like it's an entrance to a garden in the back that was Falmouth and I don't know what the other one goes to it didn't really say but that I thought that was an interesting idea I mean the other interesting idea was something that Ron said at the very end of the meeting which was breaking up the facade with different colors which might help with this project but I don't know how we say this stuff in that and that um it's I'm just really struck by how really really big this is going to be and how tall it is all right downloading these pictures did you want to look at them were you talking about

014one of these yep that one is one of them and the other one is in Plymouth which would be towards the uh yeah keep going there's one that has more where you can squirt some more visible that one's sort of visible yeah that's not it yeah you can see the Breezeway walk way there and that's like if they don't um so actually well when you're done with that but see this is sort of an interesting concept because it suggests there's other other than just this mass of the building and and the yellow is set farther back than the gray and I guess the gray might be that Boardwalk a sort of Boardwalk porch well I think the fact is there's kind of bit too much on this site and don't even have enough parking for

015it well right and that's pretty much what I think I was saying and we heard from the public was it Joan that that said that that um she didn't want underground parking yeah she was complaining about the underground parking I'm not sure why actually because that's mostly for the residences I don't think that's really for commercial but I thought that was interesting but she might have said it because she doesn't want this building to be so crammed up if they had less units some of the you know commercial parking could go underground like the people who are working at the commercial um I know that the shadow study is off they have to revise that and send it back oh no they were way up so four 48 commercial spaces are required but then they

016combine parking spaces required for the entire site 106 and then oh times 5.562625 but see they can send us this thing it's gcg that's that made the comment about the parking and the peer review report and the peer review reports are always fascinating because this guy might be off on his math on this presentation and he might be doing something that he's not allowed to do and the whole point of gcg is that they go through the bylaws and the rules that need to be applied to the project and then if you want to do some fancy math and try to convince people [Music] that you're okay great I mean I think it's insane that we have some of the parking requirements that we have are just too much uh but if you're a business

017you're going to need parking there's nowhere to really Park that slow so there exactly and if those businesses I mean if it's a dance studio which would be open mostly during the day I totally want to do a recital and then I don't know what they do um people are parking across from 200 and walking down they're parking at that little lot walking across with those spaces of Phillips and then they're at the municipal lot and walking around and across um but he mentioned it we can't really read that um it's in the I don't know the first few pages excuse me of that report because I didn't get very far through it one so they're saying a minimum of 72 parking spaces should be required what what and I think uh I think they're

018just talking about the commercial mm-hmm foreign oh no no so that that's commercial and residential together okay um but they're but so the applicant is saying that they have 60 and so we're comparing 72 to 60. the report says that there should be 72 and the applicant currently has 60 and that's total residential and Commercial right well if you look at this thing it's like he's like you know he's got it all covered I don't know exactly what he's trying to do with this I think a lot of times people look at this and go oh he's all set because he doesn't say he needs to have more or not and the fire thing is not on this it's its own single page document the fire truck if that's what you were looking for I

019I wasn't looking for her yet but yeah that doesn't wait a second if you go back right there that are those spaces numbered now they are and this is how I counted 22. where's where's number 17 . oh that's the one I'm complaining about too then the fire access because they have to go like they have to go up and then over I'm gonna make a left right they gotta do a little and with a fire truck that's not gonna be 40 feet long it's not going to be very pretty and they really only have 20 spaces because if this is loading for the commercial they you know that can't these these two spaces here can't be um parking for the public well it actually says emergency vehicle parking because that's what the fire department

020wanted and so um he's gone back and forth on that this is the latest thing he sent us so part of the problem is is where are Vehicles going to offload and so that's something that we definitely need to like put into the report and say where a vehicle is going to offload because these short spaces basically right now because there'll be people the residents will be getting you know UPS FedEx um and the other one Amazon they're all going to be coming there first of all definitely have deliveries depending on what they are and they're either blocking homer which is probably for the most part well actually those vehicles they might pull into the driveway I don't even know what they're gonna do um UPS FedEx all those guys they might Park in the

021handicap spaces if they're empty that's my guess is they'll do that and that'll create a problem until somebody catches them at it and in somewhere in here I thought they actually were mentioning the turn that Mark the Sony was talking about and the fact that it's hard to see going in and out I was just driving this way the other day and someone a pedestrian was crossing the road and I could not see them crossing the road until I got very close to them so I think it's a very good point that Mark made actually yeah I did too and it was at this corner right yeah The Pedestrian was yeah um The Pedestrian was crossing from um the south side of the Palmer to the north side right and I was going left to

022right on the plan yeah that's why I think the real the real danger is with that driveway being there so um let's go back to our report because I think we have to start marking some stuff in here or we'll be here all night again well for what if we're talking about parking I don't we really touched on this too much well should we go through this right now um and then come back and add stuff in in the areas so so this item was originally about uh the projections of the building and organizing them in a more logical way um having the commercial entrances in the recesses of the building and um and having the the plaza spaces sort of you know working with a rhythm yeah [Music] um yeah I was going to

023say I thought they met that part all right it's still well I think so I mean it was still a mess of walkways look at all wait go that's a better plan hold on this one yeah see like like look at those two walkways surrounded by um yeah right there oh sorry I'm pointing tell him where to point oh God I don't know I think this is a mess of walkways and and that's gonna be a pain in the ass to maintain and it's gonna look like it's gonna look awful so there wasn't a question about raised Planters being put in here gun and make it more can I can I share my screen yeah the one I just move this up or go yeah sure go in it's such an easy solution I just

024wait a minute uh I can't find you right now I need to like actually make you oh did you make him a co-host no um disabled from screen sharing yep it's it's stupid but sorry this thing seems to have knocked me off here go back on here we go Brendan make ghost yes Joe I'm gonna make you a co-host too so you don't feel left out here there okay um simple Pathways just into the the little coves I think and then uh widen the sidewalk so it relates to the building you have a better streetscape and maybe if you have benches out here but it just seems like you could actually get some columnar trees to kind of work with each of the the bump outs and scale or kind of scale the building um

025well rather than have like fitting two Pathways between this entrance I don't understand why you do that there's two there's two things here one of which is we actually think the wires over there are really tall yeah based on the photo montage that he put with a with the actual um the rendering they look like they're 37 40 feet it's really interesting um and the poll is the one down here at the end I'm pointing to at the Almond Street Corner and that in the photo montage jumps right out and we had a you know a good five or ten minute discussion about it so he shows them as being as tall as that so we were we were telling him to look for some cersus because actually I I don't like columnar trees because

026I think they look fake and they're not going to provide that sort of ambiance but if they're that tall and a surface would fit nicely under there tulip or like oak or Maple or something that's going to get like hdy but get some height to it simple walkways they're making a way too complicated right especially because like I don't know what's there's nothing gracious about like let's start with your first comment which is about the sidewalk and he's actually using the town side like what he is showing in here and he's like butt up to it with like pavers or do something nicer it's just such a random kind of sidewalking and having two Pathways into the store and one ear and like where do you really go but again yeah I think the real

027problem here is this building is too large for the site that's why I started talking about taking out units somewhere in here because he actually they actually need to push it back um I don't think they can without losing all your underground parking and maybe I don't know um well the parking Could Happen underneath because it's happening underneath over here and I've got a split driveway walkway the streetscape just really bothers me especially if it's unmaintained and um hydrangeas and just uh just it's just too much too complicated and too messy you took those out he's got clether in there now yeah that's not as great either but so okay but let's let's I'll stop sharing but that's just where I'm trying to well I mean I just think they're trying to cram too much

028on the site period that's part of the problem they're having and and I'm not I'm not sure that it's going to look great but and I the way it's presented right now I'm and I'm certain that whatever he puts out front tree wise isn't going to buffer enough the fact that this is a giant tall building a giant mass of a building in this area where right now there's only one and Gable that you look at from Front Street for instance from the Farmers Market so as you're driving along here instead of having that one house be that tall you're going to have the entire well it's like the entire block you're going to go from those one-story brick buildings to three and a half basically or four because on his um on the Civil

029drawing it shows Kevin yeah you know you could look at on this this is good if you blow that up because I think this is I was pulling this up because I think these elevations are disingenuous and they're saying that you know it's a three-story building it matches the streetscape but like but to your point Kathy it's just you know these might some of these might be multi-family houses I don't know but they're not not the entire block right and that's it is my big family yeah yeah right the one on the corner is multi-family for sure that's the one that's here I think but it's still a singular building single building single building single building where is this project in this view actually oh here and the it's not going to be that small

030no it's not gonna be no that's that's uh disingenuous that was the thing am I the only one who thinks we could like save and make it look nice or well I think it needs to be smaller but yeah I mean if if he knocks out units on the left and the right on the ends and shove the whole thing back that have almost no patio space upstairs you'd have to do some other amenity thing up there because it would be almost ridiculous how small that space would be up there this space is really a leftover space it's not designed well it's it's the intent is not to have a green roof it's because big fat bastrous the space that was that was left over left over yeah right so um yeah it's gonna be

031it's gonna be a massive when you walk on if you stand at the you know the walkway the home where I walk with it's going to be like straight what you're going to face a straight wall up right which I think is going to be really I mean the real issue right now is nobody's planning on people walking down here even though they talk about it being walkable and bikeable they're it's all about cars um and you know I was thinking how could how could this be better could we say to them you can only do this if you're going to landscape um the Richardson Building to the left do some more stuff in that parking lot to make it more welcoming and hospitable and the towns literally put put vehicles and construction stuff all

032over the trees in there so I don't even know whose trees those are right now that belong to the Richardson parking lot or to the town but and he doesn't he's gonna own maybe to Alden Street the Richardson Building guy I don't even think he owns that far before it becomes I think railroad right of Wayland which is totally unmaintained and so you know so then the next thing would be to get them to do some Landscaping across the railroad tracks on Front Street because there's a whole bunch of invasive Atlantis trees over there The Tree Of Heaven which is a vector plant for spider lanternfly oh goody uh right along the railroad tracks which is how they got in here in the first place and those you know if if better trees were put

033in on our side of the tracks it would be nice because and well we have to get the DPW agree to plow in there better or not stack snow against trees that's part of the reason they're in such shape bad shape but we there's definitely other things we could do over there um but even so that's streetscape is it's going to become a little um it's going to become partially a wind tunnel I think because their gun their neck's going to go after this corner going towards Main Street I think I don't think that's going to be there that long I think they're just amassing enough money to figure out how to get around historic mm-hmm or they're going to try to offer the guy next door in the back Warren a chunk of change

034for his building and he's totally ignoring people right now as far as I know because there's no other place he could really move and be able to do his business in town and keep all this stuff out in the back that's why he's staying there which property is that it's a one right to the back power tune so it's the the flat black roof just to the back yep that one are the are the um property setbacks the reason why the building is out at the face of the street and not not inverted where well it's probably this um the downtown district zoning right be that requires the building to be not more than a certain number of feet from the street I'm just thinking thinking out loud not more than a certain number of

035feet what's that not more than a certain number of feet well the downtown district isn't that the the building should be at the street Frontage yes but typically in like um well the downtown planning is building at the street Edge and you hide the parking right they had zero zero set back from the front and then they changed it to 8 to 15 feet but I didn't think that was a requirement I thought that was it was you had to have it set back at least that far because that's what they did with the the Trask building downtown which is a bagel table building and um the problem really is when you look at our downtown is the anything that's in old housing the residential is 30 foot setback so people look at that and

036they think it looks reasonable and nice for a setback and they think that's what should be happening but is that the grandfathered dimension well it's it's overlay zoning so if you're keeping the house if you're going to go um there's like a couple of dentists and houses there's actually quite a few and if you were gonna you know you bought that house from the dentist because the dentist was selling or moving to you know some Plaza somewhere and you wanted to bring your family up there you could your house would be fine it'd still be at 30 feet back from the Stream and if you had you know let's say you're a lawyer with a business but it's you know you you the front room your house might be your business and the rest of

037it would be housing for your family that's actually originally what people used to do or the family live upstairs so you could look at uh the pizza place uh I can't believe I'm forgetting the name of it that's over there right next to the town hall next I think it's next if you stand back you can see the house behind it or maybe it's the next one of the others one of the other businesses down the street well that was what they did they would they would do their business in the down stairs of the house and eventually when they got wealthy enough to build it out to the street so they have extra room to expand blah blah blah um so that's partly what the conflict is when people look at our downtown and

038then they look at what's being allowed they don't understand the zoning so the real question in part is can we again put it push it back or if he changes the facade colors and materials will that make it look less bulky and massive well you know we've yet to have that conversation we're seeing we or seem rendered generally the further back it is the more you see it if it's closer to you you don't you're not looking up well okay I'm still not gonna suggest that that's a good idea to have it this close I mean that's what I think Teresa would do right they would hide it enough or take the the onus off the giant facade and they put the telephone lines on the ground they do it just up to the corner

039of this development and they continue can the development continue with underground well we could ask so we could ask for Street trees tell us to go Pouncey and I can tell you that right now I mean you know if they're seeing a massive site plan approval it might be I mean that might be another way to make it look a lot better like we need Street trees and we can't do that because we have the telephone pole so yeah and my concern was you know I raised it like uh those utility poles those are those are so close to the building and uh you know I'm not sure whether uh they will they didn't show any Street lighting so those polls along with the street light and I don't know how close it's gonna be

040from the window that's actually something we need to put on our report because you brought up a really good point and he didn't none of us knew the answers to that we think the on the poll on the corner of Alden is the one that has the lights on it but even so whatever units over there is going to get blasted with light I don't know Brandon that's actually a good idea I mean we should ask that should be part of the ask but the utilities Underground make the streets get better right because then you're right they could put the trees out where they've got the poles right now um we wouldn't have to think about the polls anymore except at some point we'd end up with a pole at the corner I think because

041the wiring is on you'd have a poll on the Alden Street Corner um they're not going to pay for it to go underground across the street that would have to be something that would have to get worked out and I don't know I don't know how much that is I'm admitting a member of the public imagine you need some sort of like Transformer or some sort of cabinet to kind of transition right but they have to get the wires down to it so it would end up the cabinet would either end up going on on the gas station Corner which is already pretty ugly with a fire hydrant there um and packed or I guess it would go you know on the outside edge of Alden yeah or the town would have to I mean

042the town apparently is doing some of that work downtown anyway I don't know how much they are not sure Doug Small would take kindly to be to happen to do the you know cross Alden Street and then figure out where to put the utility box over there plus it would have to get coordinated with eversource which will be a chore in and of itself um but it's a good thought I mean we could put it in there and make them say forget it or realize you know that we're actually saying the street the front of the building is too small the street yeah gave to the front is too small because I think it's too small that's why I keep saying let's let's move it back can if there if they weren't going to do

043that open patio on the second floor would there be something different would that be like an interior space that that offer to people or to just be an outside space that wouldn't be accessible with it do a green roof period in there a little green roof so it's reasonable for people to look at you're asking about the second floor yeah if we were to if we were to get rid of the side units on the left and the right of that building let's say so he's lost four units or he's dropped two of them to like one bedroom instead of two bedroom so there's less square footage and he's gonna lose those little spaces I'm not even sure how he would do that he's losing common space on uh so Kathy that was a good

044the existing quote uh photograph right the elevation so in that it's just two levels level one and uh like two floors whereas this is going to be three floor exactly so if it is three floor it's gonna that poles are gonna be right at the second window well if you look at that one corner pitcher uh where is that the year that they are showing the building smaller than the utility pole but if you see the existing photograph that you had just on display well that one yeah so here if you see one two and the third floor it will be at the you know the their proposed building will be little higher than this one right or or the wire or the wires are not rendered correctly but this one is existing yeah this

045one is not uh rendered correctly yeah yeah the polls are left they have shown it higher you're saying they should be shorter yes they should be shorter they should be they will be exactly at the window level if you see somewhat near the Bengal level all right this is rendered um with the thought of the telephone poles that's right no I think they're trying to scale down the building so I'm sure they just the guy just probably just bumped up the telephone like Paul height they're not trying to scale it down because it's gonna look awful if the telephone poles are below the well okay so where's the other photograph that shows the corner it shows this view in a photograph Kevin in photograph um the other end I think it was only only this

046one is that a photograph of it the original photograph up up above there yes right so they actually removed the telephone poles from this view they use their model this is not the yeah it's pretty cool if you go if you go back to one of the first things they show where the photographs are in a skinny Banner at the bottom in this drawing oh yeah yeah yeah see you know I I don't like the way that this was done we were struggling to understand it which means it wasn't done professionally or appropriately right can you go down one more that one isn't it in this and this we don't really have yeah that's that's yeah but this is not the size of this product not the context yeah yeah that is that is like

04770 of what it really is okay so I think and the first thing the architectural stuff right we need to put this stuff in that he needs to fix the renderings and the photos so they're accurate they're more accurate than they are now much more accurate because we we can't see the mass and scale of the building we can't see where those poles are going to be um and that's where we put in our comment about take the poles Underground because they're up there because they don't look right if he puts them down by the Peaks what do you think save the last thing again um understanding the mass and scale to um essentially the renderings don't look like what we think the project is going to look like with the polls the lack of

048room for Street trees the lack of adequate space for the polls vis-a-vis the building Street trees to fit in here um and to make a nice comfortable space nice comfortable spaces out in front of the building in commercial spaces we could say we could call it a streetscape a nice comfortable streetscape because it's not going to be slightly more comfortable but not not much more than what we what we have over at um The Bagel table building where there's nothing in front so what he was trying to do here Brendan because he said this at the meeting was he's trying to make comfortable little spaces out there so you could sit outside and have coffee whereas he didn't think that um that was possible at the bagel table which I totally agree because I I

049spent I guess it was part of the pandemic and I was trying to meet with people out there but there was no it wasn't comfortable to sit out there because there's cars going by there's no um there were no um umbrellas there's no canopy of any kind you know trees I have a couple trees out there one of them they ran over right away when they first put it in so they never replaced it yeah so this is that's that setback there is eight feet and when you go to the gray building it's 15. feet to set back eight to Fifteen yes and that's how they came up with the with the the body lot because everybody's like yeah that's fine and it's not really fine because there's not enough room well I think I

050I think sorry to interrupt you but I I was looking at the bylaws and I think the 8 and 15 is actually a minimum and maximum it's yeah you don't want it to be too far set back you just said if you go to like any successful downtown there's not a lot of feet like look at like Wellesley downtown like there's not a lot of Sorrow because enough for like the tables I don't mind this all right so show show the pictures of um Falmouth would you because I was trying to figure out today that's Plymouth actually um and that might be a yeah keep going back more more sorry that's that's Falmouth and the next one back the first one that one is Falmouth okay I've walked out do you think what do you

051think that is because that looks to me like it's it's at least 15. they just and so you know it's almost like I mean you look at that Mexican restaurant they have like the seating that's kind of like their Alcove and the sidewalk itself is that's about like 10 feet or 15 15 V Max but if you go down further down the street in in Falmouth downtown the buildings aren't this far back this is like the anomaly well they've got three or four different pitchers there so this might be the only strip that's the anomaly because I haven't been there in a while I was and I was there in the winter so it definitely didn't look as fluoriferous as this does what's the next one Kev after this huh that one nope the next

052one after that yeah yeah maybe that's what they did here there's a there's actually enough room enough length in this planter by the way so that was a dead Street tree I think that's in there and there's a shrub and flowers in there which I thought was really interesting um so I guess you know if they went back another five feet let's say we've got another five feet because we're all talking about how massive the building is that would give them space to put to have a little more latitude on the sidewalk and you could have raised Planters you could have Street trees blah blah blah blah and you know maybe we could do some of the things if I ever send the drawings of the of the Planters to people or maybe not maybe

053I need to do that too I think they're sitting in my drive here um I think I think we're looking for some buffering ideas and some seating out there you would have all that if you lost that massive landscape bed that's a complete mess how many feet back do you think that is what he's showing in that I mean they're showing like a four to five wide sidewalk and then Landscaping up to the building setback what do you think at its narrowest is is eight feet right there's very little at the narrowest and one of those I think the the gcg by the way um you can get like a five or wide plenty bed which is all you really need like that condition and then you keep a straight sidewalk and then you have

054room for Planters and benches and have the sidewalk relate to the building and then that makes the planting beds relate to the building and then it all starts to see this just seems like they just like slapped a building down on the sidewalk and just like put landscape right up to it there's no way this is nothing intentional about this it just seemed like just a complete just a mess is this actually this is actually the the Street sidewalk is that correct that we're seeing right here it's going to be destroyed anyway so you might as well just well wait a second it's actually a really good point because this looks like it's his sidewalk when in fact it's the Street sidewalk and it needs to be labeled as town of Ashland sidewalk because that's

055that's part of the confusion here perhaps too that's not being replaced with the downtown improvements so why are we keeping like the existing sidewalk when it's probably going to be traveling with construction well he may he may the real question is how far into the street can he go I think that's that's Street curves there I think last time he had said right the existing building remember at the site visit we told him that it looks less than four I think uh four feet it was less than four feet so one of the corners so he said it's existing so he can by law go up till that but he's not he's but he's doing a complete renovation of this site if he was if he was doing a a repair or keeping that building

056and adding on to it that would make sense to me yes but I can't see how he can do and as of if you go on the uh the layout plan where the old buildings are superimposed on this you can see uh how close it is it's that one on the corner right on office yeah and this is the one I actually but he's going if you see he's comparing this building yeah this too or is it a 35. the corner one okay because 35 looks like it's pretty close and that's pretty close so this demand this is an eight foot box so this this complies with the eight foot minimum setback um I have concerns about this location that's less than eight feet I think actually that um gcg does too because they talk

057about one of them being less than what it's supposed to be do we so do we need to comment on parking and all the other topics that gcg has reviewed I mean they're they're saying in their report that the parking is is lacking so to what extent do we need to comment on it and and use numbers and and do calculations I don't think we need to comment on it yeah you can either say we we're agreeing with that or we can also say that like the gcg report we think there's too much going on in the site there's not enough room for everything because I think we can yeah we can also suggest is you know the planning board should uh on site you know like I think like how Kevin said that uh

058square is eight feet but I think when we were on the site it seemed less than the existing building was less than eight feet it was just four feet here they're showing eight feet but in reality I don't think so it's eight feet also the existing the corner building that the red blocks is right the Kevin's red box that box is eight feet I don't think so that existing building is eight feet so either this composite overlay is wrong or the are the existing you know maybe the walkways little I mean we don't know the Border you know the boundary yeah so which one are you talking about the one on the corner no I think not this one this is the one go on this side yeah yeah on the album side see if

059you does does it look like eight feet yeah I think it does I think it's about at the front there I I don't think it's four feet I I think it's I don't know six feet Maybe and that's what I think the gcg report was referring to but but I think but it could be 18 I just you know I'm just eyeballing it but yeah why don't we I don't know whether it was this building or the other one maybe the it could be the other one it might be yeah the other one yeah this one sorry this is the one yeah that's really close well the stairs are close but what about in the porch maybe the porch was an add-on after the fact so the porch if it is three feet right and

060then three feet in the grass so that's six feet looks like six to seven so I think this this one might be a moot point because they are they're their setback is actually more than not at that location right they're pushing the building back further they have more than they probably yes at least yeah I mean it's by just one feet possibly but I mean I'm not sure maybe you know unless you see it in reality like actual site measurements there's a little oops there's a little inset on the Alden Street side of that bill of the 4749 but on the Homer Street they haven't even said it at that corner so that's in the front that's potentially tight but I think it's your Square would fit around that corner but where it doesn't really

061fit is over here on the commercial side now that whole area doesn't fit that that part has to go back I think yes so okay so so it's now 8 20 8 17 maybe we should um we should start writing stuff on the report so I think we need to I think we need to specifically comment on this your square up here on a commercial and and with a with additional sort of comment that they they need to double check to make sure the building's set back at least to the minimal code and I don't know about the rest of you but I feel like the building is it's it's just too massive for the site well I don't know what's going to happen on the parking bees like I it if the project can't

062be as of right if they're not providing enough parking and if the project goes through because because you know fewer parking spaces are are just approved um I I don't know what what we're doing um I think we I think we say something to that to that effect right that we think there's there I mean I really think it comes down to partly what Brendan was saying and and it's and there's too much going on it can't fit it adequately on the site um and you know challenge them to do something different and they're going to be annoyed by the comment but because they're into this this far and you know we should have been seen by them long before this and so that's actually partly another reason why I made them well I just

063said we're gonna have a meeting on Thursday with planning board when they wanted to have a meeting with us because I think they're having trouble this building too um what do we recommend that that um just this portion of the building be um at least be re well be rethought redesigned at least what did I say should be well okay so what does everybody else think that they want the building set back or not sit back more I think it could at least it should at least meet the zoning standard well theoretically it's meeting the zoning standard Kev what about you Joella what about you is it meeting the zonings no no because because Kevin said it's it's under a feet uh on the commercials that little commercial area on the left there yeah the

064driveway it's definitely not meeting it so at a minimum we think it should should meet the the commercial the commercial we needs to meet the zoning on the commercial side there um or are we going to gain anything by setting it back that's what I'm asking um I think there are large fundamental issues with the project um but we also have to go line item by line item reviewing you know the project in detail but and are you saying we shouldn't address small items like that if there's a larger issue at hand I think we address them both yeah that's why I'm at that time bringing it up now because it seems like this might be the place to bring it up maybe there's a better place for it because I mean you we sort

065of addressed it there absolutely I I'd recommend leaving it here and then um just so we have it written down and then we keep going through the report so because we need to make progress yeah we're not very far okay so let's keep going then okay I I wrote this item are we flying with this one should we say inadequate or should it be misleading because I feel like they're providing the right level of detail with the the SketchUp model but it's it's there underestimating the scale of it and I think it's intentional it doesn't seem like well I think misleading is is act is um is a better word and um but I I think their method of creating these renderings is you know could use some improvement as well and we we could

066also in this line and bring up that it it doesn't look right the rendering of the building doesn't look right against the the photographs that show the brick buildings farther down the street yeah it's just because it looks the um we were getting that comment at the last meeting so it looks sunken yeah I completely agreed with what George was was bringing up in that meeting yeah so I think we need to say that there yeah so I was looking at the page so on page six of the eight three it actually it's a shame because it could be a cool project but they just don't really have the professionals to kind of execute it Building looks sunken into the street compared to the photographs of the three one-story brick buildings just passed it going

067towards Main Street would you say west of the project site okay there you go unfortunately I think we're going to keep asking for these things and we're not going to see an improvement on on the quality I think that's the I think that's the fact the matter uh but we should keep asking um should we have an item here in red um there that that take greater care in in um providing exact details exactly well I'm trying to say something about scalage in achieving um and accurate representation exactly of the scale I think that's fair okay shall I move on to the next item I think let me put this in red okay materials and textures uh we had asked for a material palette to be presented by the applicant um which which they did

068and maybe I think on this one we just need to know what we requested yes um was it four I think it was four of material palette options yeah and it's not um hang on I'll tell you it's not number one I think we took number one out you see the number one or number five out we took number five out so Kathy did you add my notes into yours no not really what I did was look at them and said oh I think I've got these covered here sorry um I'd like to use my notes for this one because I um it's fine with me if you think you've got it worded better we're selected by the community yeah we did not select five though actually we should take that out take that out

069of which the note my notes out of your notes I thought we took out um can I look who took out number one because it had um which was the one that had all the modern stuff that I think we had them take out is that number one or is that number five it was number five okay so what where where are you here on a note just where are you we're here after lead I'll fix it on this materials so it's one two three and four oops are we sure about this oh actually we can just look at them okay let's look at it I think they're not moving was a little bit strange so type so where's the first one two three oh so it's actually type four it was it was five

070in the previous iteration let's just say the one without the metal panel or the sorry the one with the metal panel that we should be removing all right so let's see it's one two and three we want them to work up in renderings and it's for I'm just going to say four were selected moving the option of the metal panel cladding okay I got that so you don't have to put that in I I took the numbers out I just said take out the one with the metal cladding so we don't have any confusion between versions of sent over what do you want me to do right I I have it don't worry about it okay yeah I got that it's more what what we got to do for the report um yeah so um

071right now so the Apple can present before material palette options so we asked them to provide renderings um yeah I would say take Type 4 out don't don't put a number on it because if somebody gets mixed up between the because they numbered them differently between their version but that's why I said the option showing the metal panel cladding was not selected type four yeah take well uh okay I just take Type 4 out all together it's not necessary this is this should be see above really well the date on that is whoops what's that what did you just do with don't didn't we wait a second didn't we just we answered that up above yeah so I'm I don't think we need to you don't want to say see about her no I want

072to take it out I want to actually take it out because I don't want the more stuff we have in here the more confusing it's going to be I'm just gonna make that sure black uh renderings of the building when windows and slope runs should show an accurate representation of the intended tone color of the glazing we didn't actually talk about this with the applicant um it's still true we should still leave it in there yeah I'll just eventually they're going to show us um you could say not discussed okay okay so on solar panels were not discussed underneath that one we can say the applicant's going back to look at to review solar panels and as many areas of the site as possible including uh parking canopies and and all the faces of the

073roof I think they wanted to look at providing solar panels on the on the on the the surfaces of the roof that face in a direction that wasn't desirable by by the planning board um yeah I think all all roof faces whatever that terminology would be all all of orientations I think okay um that one EV charging applicants said they were going to um Afghan said they were going to make every single space EV ready inside and out and that actually was per gcg yeah I'm not clear on how many are going to be provided with an EV charging station they would say they were saying that there was going to be a a conduit stubbed up that's called EV ready oh yeah not right how many actual stations are they providing well I think

074we we further after you write that in we further say that we asked them to be specific about how many actual stations they were providing because at one point they said none and we didn't didn't seem to indicate to them that that was very acceptable so what do you think are you putting that in there oh so say that again so um EV charging at this meeting so I think in between after C point two the June 15th comment put in we should put in something for August 3rd yeah so I've done that oh I'm sorry I might be in the wrong place because I'm looking forward my screen was paused so here you go here's what I wrote oh great okay okay that's great that's perfect okay so um anybody else has something else

075to add here is that on their little cheat sheet here oh you know I don't think I've seen it anywhere no because they would have put it on there if it was so it makes them look good you'd be ready oh he shows it on those hmm I think they're planning on just making everything EV ready and not actually providing any stations well that's what he said so I think we we put that other ask in there because we talked about it a and b it's a a trade-off perhaps yeah so Brendan just to make you even happier we talked about bike racks going out on that front sidewalk somewhere and I told I told them about bike rack benches by the way I don't know where he even put them well the bike they

076uh I want to say it's I think it's Foundry actually has has the site Furniture where they show bike racks with they show benches excuse me with um something that you can attach a bike to and they call them bike ride and and I thought that was very interesting because basically you're getting two you know two things for the for the price of one little higher price but it was an interesting concept and I don't know either I mean I think this has to be redone in some respects but it's a good start I mean I also talked to them about the fact that I need to protect the windows better I don't know with um those have to be a you know put off the curb and then you know the five foot walk

077so there's not a lot of room yeah I don't think the benches should go don't know let's talk about bike rack they have to be there or you're saying they could go farther back I mean well you have to want them it's like a Bollard with the bike rack is that what you're saying well because a bunch of things came up at that point because we were they were also talking about doing some more raised court and steel planters out front there um and then somebody else brought up the lack of space blah blah but that way it also you know slow down a car that's out of control that's headed towards the building I'm against ballers bollards themselves yeah they're ugly no I'm just saying Ballers and like I don't think cars are Greening

078down Homer Ave and crashing into buildings too often well I don't think anybody thinks anything's careening too often until it happens to them yeah I know I just you know it's better to in some cases uh it's better to think about some of this stuff and just say okay let's put something up here and it looks decent that would that would serve the same purpose and maybe that's part of the redesign of this area is something like that happens we have the telephone poles Kathy so well their start until we tell them they have to put them underground okay now we're talking and there's only and there's only three of them out there so there's a lot of space in between just saying Brenda and the same is going to be true up at the

079Mill buildings you know I like bollards and they like I don't think we need bollards to stop cars from crash into buildings but I think if they're very important for professor and safety right I just I'm not well there's a whole bunch of ways we can do this so although I don't even understand why they they're Cordon steel Planters it seems very odd it was well at 18 inches that would help um and that that would you know between the soil and the water and the soil and the plantings I would start to make them be heavy uh uh okay where are we at here Kevin um C point three but storm water um I don't remember why I wrote it this way but peer review responds I think there was a question about how

080the stormwater recharge works on site and it was noted that it goes from the parking lot to the catch base and it discharges into the subsurface infiltrate in infiltration structure I think just leave it the way it is right now are there several plans available well gcg raises it in their peer review and I don't know that they've provided new ones yet and they talk about the fact that I haven't seen a survey or any kind of actual technical drawing besides these some of my 17s so the applicant considers themselves in in feasibility study right now they're not they're not even in schematics schematics okay sorry um well with gcg commented that a couple of them were too low based on whatever they saw with whatever they provided and that they weren't going to be

081working correctly so I just I wouldn't even address it I think we should just move on program we can't gcg is probably going to do the storm water there's another group they use all the time for storm water there's a drainage calculation in storm water management plan that was reviewed by gcg and that's probably in the current cases um okay because that says April 22nd all right I'll pick it up um I think we just look at that the action here is that the report will be submitted to the town for review yeah as long as someone's looking at it yeah um I wanted to add something to the materials [Music] Oh I thought we could add it under his okay so his Heritage and historic details I think we should say something about the

082conversation that Joan brought up about providing a village field like differentiating the materials and right Joan is trying to enter the room oh geez thank you hi Joan okay so yes hello Hi how are you good thank you how you doing great impeccable actually but the comment you made about The Village feel we're trying to insert it in here oh okay nice should we mention Joan by name or say no just say we got a comment about it um I'm just fixing the minutes to better reflect that actually and breaking up the building up on add to the character of the downtown yeah so the actual comment was too built would like to see separate buildings and two buildings on site to create a more Village feel to the project and we could potentially put

083that in there and see how far we get where we can say character if you don't like the feel ings yeah okay that's good okay so going back up to the D point one we didn't actually talk about the historic ornament and maybe we don't mention anything here I think we'll review that in the next meeting we'll keep it on here and report number three would probably touch on this sure yeah because that wasn't shown very well either even if they were doing something with with making the sidewalk all look like the siding on the Richardson Building looking like an exact did they show something like that well they said we can't show no and well the answer is sort of sort of for the little tiny pocket park when they showed it uh yeah

084that thing right there part Park walkway Paving pattern but he hasn't actually said what that is because he's still actually researching it because there is no Paving pattern like that because it would have bumps in it and nobody wants that on a on a walkway like this it wouldn't be allowed you could do it at your private house probably but well I took that it was just the pattern you know that this like ashlard pattern right and that's what I think he's talking about yeah I actually take issue with this because none of Richardson's buildings take the pattern on the wall which is intended to be on the wall and put it on the horizontal surface and so why so why you didn't say anything about that last night and I kind of wish you

085had um you want to say it now well we should say it now in the report yes upon further discussion yeah we'll say that but so we're on the ornament right now so what do we want to say about the ornamentation oh we don't have anything to say about the ornamentation okay so right now yeah so I'll add this as 2 3.2 um so it it was presented the Stone pattern template well yeah I guess as a as uh as the basis there you go um he actually said he was going to carry it over to all of the patio by the way not just a pack of Park okay and would be carried across the um the commercial Plaza spaces um uh um well is it never repeat are Never Bound um on the

086horizontal walking service they found on any horizontal surfaces um no I think around his buildings they're typically so like Copley Plaza in Boston is a is a brick Plaza it's just modular brick right um and maybe we can't say never because it's a like a national pattern can be found in the landscape but um I don't think I think it's disingenuous to say that well you know the pocket Park Plaza surface references back to the wall of the historic Richardson Building I I I don't think that's historically accurate if we're trying to relate back to it and well yes there's a mm-hmm ing board's been repeatedly asking for something from the Richardson Building to be carried over to the site well let's look at what that might be I I don't I don't honestly think

087there is unless we take that the co that corner of the Richardson Building I was talking to you about a long time ago right whoops go back on the corner of the cap the front corner the other Corner sorry where we can see it better as you're going down the street um yeah okay so see how you can see those arches there the only thing I was thinking of would be if they had some kind of a pergola over the pocket park and some kind of pergola in front of over the windows ground floor windows that mimic that particular Arch patterning the problem is that are we really trying to mimic this building uh let me just finish okay somebody on clipboard keeps asking for it so I literally was you know that we've had

088these discussions again and again our on our committee and I've been sort of banging my head about it like is there any possibility of anything we could do and short of using those Colors that appear on the facade that sort of mahogany red and the color of the if anything it's probably the use the roof line as part of that pergola that's somewhere that's on the um Alden Street side yeah but that's you've lost the connection at that point you're way on the back I don't I think their intention was to have it on the front I don't think that would make I don't think it's the development to copy the Richardson Building it's kind of a so is there any so let me ask it this way are there any elements of this building

089that we think could be successfully transferred over so potentially the facade colors into like patio Paving sorry sorry to interrupt you no to answer your question I don't think there's anything I think we let the historic building be in the historic building I don't know where the planning board is caught up on having elements of a historic building replicated you can't you can relate to a building but typically you do that in a in a modern way so that the historic building is you know stays it's it's what it is and can be I then let's go back this is a completely different use too and in retrospect let's not try to match anything on it I'll leave it at that in the in the in our comments to them so they stop looking for

090this walkway Paving pattern and they do something else put a mural on the brick building yeah that would be that'd be great oh well he's got big plans for that that brick building by the way he's gonna take all that stuff down he wants to put Windows in it and he wants to put a doorway in it because he wants the tenants next door when they eventually develop that building to be able to also access the front of this building yeah I I think you know to further the statement I was making I think the answer is no that we can't relate to it because of just the building scale like what how are we going to put a Pergola on the side of this building and have a roof form that is taller than

091the building itself as it is so take it all out take let's go back to the um so and just say after you wrote that right after the word surface just say um in retrospect we just feel it's impossible to to match the Richardson Building in any meaningful way to perform any meaningful way there you go um so it's I suppose it's possible but maybe it's not um what's the word like it's not the right thing to do it's um well with the current scale of this building it's not it's not you know this building was a one-story building we could say hey but the roof over there you know have that overhang there would be a lot of things they could do but it's not really possible to do it the way that the

092scale of this project and otherwise all the other little parks are too small and you know as you just pointed out against the one-story brick building there's nothing you can do there it would look totally out of out of character on the back well can I say sort of we advise that the historic building be allowed to um stand alone stand alone yeah sure I think that would be helpful I love the mer the mural idea actually it's half joking so it's it's much more Community focused and modern and you know could be vibrant so make make another make another D3 oh no Heroes everywhere you open this Starbucks everywhere open that door but actually it's not such a bad idea because it's stucco right now and then they stucco it probably because the brick

093needed re-pointing so that seemed to be the simpler thing to do that's my guess and let me just say you're gonna get like another Southwestern sunset with mountains you don't like that it needs to be changed up a little bit I mean that's the that's the you know it actually used to that comes to mind when I think of Ashland I think it used to be something else actually yeah um each one a mutual mirror no no wait so the um painted on this the existing stucco wall of what is what is that address I don't know um it's nine 9 11 and 13 I think so I remember having this whole discussion with them that day we did the sitewalk and I'm not one of those buildings has it on the front oh 15

094there you go if that's 15 then how is this project 9-49 because that entire lot which includes those three buildings number nine this is where they're only developing that part which I I don't know why it's 9-49 it's that's also misleading so we take the word painted out there because then they could do something else like a mosaic you know that cool mosaic art they have down in Philadelphia yeah it could mimic the Richardson Building don't say that because you're gonna get that on there if you do it of limestone and whatever it is sandstone portrait of HH Richardson all right um can we can we look at where where's the rendering of oh they show the signs well I I think they're trying with this bench yeah that's that's trying to be I think

095it's trying to mimic the historic building but but it's not historic no the wrong this is the wrong approach there is a way to relate to but I think this is the wrong approach so we actually need to get set by a truck we need to actually say that perhaps then that this is not because you know what I noticed that too and I didn't say anything about it I'm like that doesn't look right um yeah that needs to be a much more modern um sorry the dog is totally squirming right now I don't know what his deal is and he's sitting on my lap okay um maybe that pergola or the or that covered canopy however they're referring to it needs to be a different needs to have a different roof to it it

096could be a flat covered pergola I could put greenhouse plastic on top of it or something to that effect and they could put plantings Vines growing up it could do what they did downtown um what do they call that garage Post Office Square well that's pretty ambitious for this project well I'm like people thinking vicious for Ashland I mean that would be can you imagine having that down there it'd be gorgeous even if it was little can you imagine if they did it across the side of the building he's spiffy what do I want to say here I'm getting to wordy um I I yeah you are I think I wouldn't even I wouldn't even I'd get rid of that entire sentence just say we think the the roof line is not appropriate for the

097scale of the park I could see why they did it if they're getting pushed back from playing the board to be that seems like the most logical way to relate but I agree it's it's not right it's not as much scale for me though it's about um mimicking it's also yeah yeah so why don't we say it that it needs to be of a different aesthetic believe it that maybe or use some other term matching directly okay can we leave it matching the Richardson Building we could even say rather than trying to match the Richardson Building yeah I mean that's a good point you're always gonna just be trying to match it and never actually achieve it right [Music] okay okay that comment was which one is that D3 [Music] I wonder if it's not

098if we're trying to like match the riches in building or why not use the plaza to kind of like maybe have an interpretive panel to explain why the train that building is kind of cool maybe pocket park yeah maybe that pocket park is like the HH which is in pocket park and it has like a confirm like informational panel or something that kind of gives the history of that train station building an architect and and you kind of um get some sort of kind of cool cultural feature for them they could actually do an interpretive spine there and then for further you have a QR code that links back to the historic commission yeah but like yeah maybe you don't maybe have like a there's a page that kind of looks like HH piece with

099a you know an 18 by 24 panel that kind of explains what you're looking at across the street exactly it's referred to as an interpretive sign that's what how they yeah and um like the state any big parks that have that stuff then they could work with the historical commission to kind of really design it and actually increase awareness of why this dentist office kind of looks cool exactly it's actually terrible you give if we give a little meaning to that Plaza as well rather than just having it be just like um that's actually a better way to do it I like that a lot yeah I like that too because um in our work we do exhibit design as well in our office and we do if yeah if we're if we're um working

100on a historic project or we've actually done a lot of adaptive reads as well of historic properties like you know we actually we did the Liberty Hotel in Boston oh that place is sweet yeah converted I didn't work on it but we converted an alternating into a hotel yeah um there are a number of modern just like very clean um black metal panels direct up from the the ground and on on them is displayed the history of the site and it's not meant to match it's meant to to complement and kind of hide in the hide into the background actually right it'd actually be kind of cool for the kids or I know like we did like a a field trip around Ashen to a historic site so this could actually be kind of included

101where you kind of learn about architecture and maybe even appreciate downtown a little bit more that's what I've been trying to do with it with a combination tour between historic and us to do exactly that in downtown Ashland because I think then people would be would get it a little more they'd appreciate it more and then have a better understanding of what we're trying to do so anytime you want to do that I can go wind up some people on a historical society to help out because I've been talking about lunkers uh it used to be I know I know don't even bring that up it's a really sore subject with me we it's probably been very good for our budget our waistline it's not the hyperals anymore but that was an awesome little entire

102setup there was awesome I've heard about that you could go like I I don't even remember how many times I suddenly went oh my God I forgot somebody's holiday or Mother's Day I forgot to get a flower I can run down there and she would always have flowers out there there would be a card you know something that would be acceptable because we'd be going up there to my mom's for Mother's Day or Bill's mom's for Mother's Day and he wanted to bring something you know and um plus I would always bring baked goods if we're going with my parents I didn't need to bring them to Bill's mom because she lived close enough to zabar to walk there so um okay who is it when you're going to design that too what's that you're

103gonna design The Interpreter panel well who who is it I thought I heard you've interested what are you asking well so Brendan's point I was asking who in the town actually would would start such a um conversation about doing interpretive panels throughout the town uh uh well I'm guessing that Joan is listening to this with a lot of interest and I'm guessing that she would have some cheerleading from the historic Commission in the Historic Society to say nothing of us and that would actually be a great um hang on one second it'd be a great use of CPC funds potentially um Joan go ahead um just quickly um so the historic commission um historical commission actually has been doing some of that and we're working on a kiosk at the um Hall house right now

104and um there are kiosks in the Warren Woods Etc so there are various signs around town I I understand that this one may be different than that you know I'm not saying that they need to mimic it but I I really like the idea of the interpretive sign very much um you actually have a sort of a signage template you work with yes yeah branded for Ashland I'm sorry you've branded for Ashland so to speak yes it's kind of yes it's it's um each one is a little bit different um it's not necessarily exact but um but there are there are various signs that um that you know we can we can work with and um and take a look at and and get once we get the right information that's the important thing and

105then what we did with the hall the hall house was we we wrote up um because that was um you know um Henry Warren's um workplace and we wrote up uh wrote up a little um paragraph um about it and then we had some pictures of the of the original house and Harmony Warren and some of his um inventions that type of thing around it um that hasn't gone up yet it's still under review with this select board um to be for to be finalized but that's what that's what um Helen and I have been working on so great so can we say see this store commission about this yes I think so I would just contact Jim Nielsen yeah they would love to love to I'm sure he would love to have you come

106to the meeting and and talk about it if possible yeah um I did have one other comment if I can if I can just chime in um the when something kind of hit me a little bit when you're talking about the um the train station and not mimicking not mimicking and I agree you can't mimic the historical aspects of the train station but something hit me about the colors that they were looking at um last last time and that maybe as opposed to like the Grays and things that are totally different to maybe use more neutral tones on the building that just kind of would would not be as um such a stark difference I guess if I could say not exactly so the blues and gray tones as a and you maybe use more

107beigey kind of beigey kind of tones as opposed to that was just something that I kind of thought might might make a difference like with more of a um a brown roof and um you know the siding more a different different tones I don't again I like the I like the idea of different materials and different and different tones but um but on the more on the on the neutral side as opposed to the gray side if that makes sense just something to think about sure there um we're asking them to put this what they're showing here on the sides of the building which I guess you didn't have time to do before you sent this back to us so um we I don't know do we think we could say that now in this

108or just wait until they almost think we need to wait until they show us something before we we comment on that yes um because I'm not sure we send them that comment now I'm not sure that he's going to interpret it yeah I think we wait I appreciate the comment Joan and I understand where you're coming from on that I I think we should see it in the greater context and then we can have a further conversation about it but um and you're welcome to join that conversation too when we have it um so your idea about the beigey tones is that coming from a particular context in the downtown you know should we be thinking about some particular buildings that we should be relating to um well I I think if if you're trying

109to I was I was thinking more of the Richardson Building as opposed it's it's it's all beige and brown tones as opposed to the blues and Grays that they're talking about putting this building would be you that those blues and Grays make it a totally separate entity in my mind I actually like losing Grace personally that's those are more my colors but you know but I think I think in this in this sense maybe not to mimic it or anything like that but just to kind of keep it in those tones where it wouldn't be as as Stark um uh contrast yeah okay yeah we'll we'll consider that in and determine where I think I don't think we'll put it in this report but we'll um make sure we mention it going forward but definitely

110please definitely please reach out to Jim um on the historical commission and I'll I'll send him a note tomorrow and let them know that you're might be coming well I don't think we're coming we're going to ask the applicant to come so when they come before you because um Helen brought that up at the last meeting and that would definitely be something that you all can discuss with them okay put it in this report right now and that's a good way to also potentially um I I know I no don't put his name in there please no oh okay and take and I would just end the sentence at Commission and and let the historic commission talk to them more about what they're doing um all right I just lost my thought um Helen talked

111to them about the fact they had to come in front of them for the demo delay yeah yeah and then this would also be a good way for some additional if if you found anything else uh more significant about those other buildings there might be additional opportunities at the front of this building for interpretive signage here's what used to be on this site so you know we might have more than more than one or two but right now apparently there aren't any records I'm not I'm not really sure how else you would find them I I think she's asked around all the places she knows of right now but I think somebody's still looking to find about about like Evers in the in those buildings you mean or um no the two buildings on the

112site oh yes the two historical buildings I'm sorry yeah she did she did mention that to me too yes yeah yeah all right yeah I'm still we are still working on that she definitely is working on it I'm I'm on vacation so I'm not doing a lot right now but I was surprised to see you come on this call actually we just got home and I said I'll just jump on and see what's going on oh great I'm sorry to hijack but no worries um and you haven't all right so Mark um is it's related right away with something we're doing right now uh yes and this is just before this meeting I can't I was on historical to me listening and all that but I'm not gonna bring any of that up the idea

113of what's going on here and now is how many more um pages and paragraphs will be going on this until completion well we have to go through it so I don't know I can't answer that okay because um I saw on the agenda that um you have a bunch of other things after this so I was wondering hopefully all we're doing is the minutes after this we're not doing anything else because we're already this is already taking too long I can tell you right now we're going to get some of the older minutes approved and try to get more stuff as we move on Mark okay now quickly for this would be um you said it was said before about the uh buildings and how big they are and all that's and all that was

114before earlier I wanted the combat back then but you're up on going I'm thinking that this project there's an oversize for this for the slot itself and of course and then with the uh the sidewalks they out of town sidewalks so that's kind of be an issue right there and it hits dark and the physical Storm part about the building it's got to be worthwhile talking to them about and the um you didn't get to I don't know if you did or not but the uh the storm water that's that's conservation and uh other issues that is going on here to me and I'm not putting it down or anything but to me this looks like it could be a final draft or or vote for yay am I right um no I don't think

115you're correct about that we're not doing a final draft we're doing an interim draft okay thank you thank you all right Kev can we keep going please so we're on signage good question sorry do we want to still keep the mural idea or if we are going interpretive or I I think the two might go hand in hand potentially okay that's just my sense I think we could just leave it in there okay well you didn't see what happens yeah um so the actual item here was the applicant was to present a generic indication of signage locations where tenants and for General Residential Building signage um and I think this is my note from the meeting on 83 signage for residential and Commercial together at home or um actually I thought that was an issue

116that in the plan they were saying that there would be signage um or the residential and the commercial in this band here we actually want to see their signage and we haven't seen it yet they haven't thought it out and we actually want to see it because I think I think you're correct and his answer wasn't didn't make me feel any better let's put it that way and you might have to signage together inside which would make sense but outside I think the fact there's no residential entrance at the front outside might be confusing to people especially people visiting a resident in the building and that has to be really spelled out at the front where do you go yeah I don't think it's been thought through right I think I was saying that the

117residential signage um may not be necessary at home or because the residential has two doors at the back what do you want to say no well I think you we just need to say the directional for you know the directional signage is is lacking right now and so they have to say something on on Homer because if you're you know Susie and Joe moved into the building and Barbara and Mike are coming to visit them and they haven't they don't know Ashland they haven't been here they have no idea where to go when they arrive at the site other than what they might have told them but the site's full because there's a dance a dance thing going on at the studio tonight so they parked across the street and they walk over and they're

118still like going where am I supposed to go to get to the residential side they they have to have signage that says residential entrance this way at the very minimum on Homer you know I I think it's a result of the building plan not being flushed I don't I don't think they understand their own their own plan um so yeah I think that I think they're rushing it as part of the problem [Music] um so signage should be could be indicated um on the elevations in and you say clearly indicated yeah great thank you my issue with this which I understand what you're saying Kathy that if someone comes to this building and they're a visitor and they're visiting a resident you know do they come to the front of the building but then the

119actual entrance to the residential Lobby is is actually on the back you go through this vestigal and then out of the building again and then inside which I've also didn't make a bit of sense to me it doesn't make sense because I I'm like that they have a door and a door maybe they should take part of that wall out and just have it open in there between all of those things why would they put another door in when they don't necessarily need to you know um why would they have a problem take it out yeah I don't even think we should get to that level I think we're talking about signage prematurely because the building plan isn't washed out right but isn't this awkward here which part right whoops go back up where you

120had your hand I know and then where the two walls are go but keep going down towards this doorway oops okay and then go to the left which is that wall this wall between those two spaces that strikes me as really awkward in terms of people moving in that space because that was open and there were columns in there instead of if that's a bearing wall then why wouldn't they just that would be the obvious place to put your some of your signage in from the back or the front so here's where you want to go if you're doing residential stuff here's where you want to go if you're doing or is that an elevator I'm looking at that's an elevator okay that's why that's in there okay so I don't know this sorry I

121don't know they've got all these doors that little tiny vestibule between the elevator and bicycle storage and then you have another door that you have to go in to go back out to go back in well I just think it's awkward I think the entire thing is awkward and why wouldn't you have that whole area open around the elevator then so you don't have door so small too why so you don't have to go out to get in right about Paving text repeat that looks like a two for wide door okay well we can't I mean I just think it's awkward I just think it's awkward how it's done all the doors are very small and I think it's it's not uh well it's got to be accessible right on the ground floor because that's

122where their accessible units are and how are you supposed to take that elevator and get upstairs if it's not accessible yeah I do commercial units usually have like one door I feel like that's an odd too um well I sort of brought up where the door locations were because I don't like them and they're you don't even line with the walks each each one actually has two doors except the one on the far end over on Alden Street and that only has one and I just and I said well where are those folks gonna go if there's a fire if you know if it's out on the street and they can't access access it and he said oh he had an answer but it wasn't there's a back quarter there you're like you're still inside

123the building you can't actually get to the outside you'd have to go down the long court or farther over on that that plan I just thought that was awkward also yeah see that on the far right that last commercial space it's on the corner of home rental then you have to go down that Corridor to get out yeah I think they were nice why would you have a bump out on on Homer out but the axis is all the way on Alden the lot they're right in the first I I actually don't understand I don't know why they didn't put a little door in there too I don't know I don't know I I find that and that's actually well I probably just should have said that why don't you put one on Homer there

124because I need to give more space to this unit well that's what I think they're trying to do but they could still put a door there and then if that unit needs it they'd just keep it permanently locked all the time [Music] lock from the outside and go through on a you know crash bar come inside well we agree that the building planning is is subpar right now yes all right so let's go back to our report because it's 9 30. all right so we're okay you're great what's next so existing conditions for so we're on site in landscape parking garage um comes within the forefoot property line um do we need to say anything on this they they we did talk a little bit about where the drive lane is um in relation to

125the parking garage below actually they indicated that on a plan um but I I don't know to a additional comments well not not for that per se I mean I still think parking spot 17 is going to be badly impacted by a fire a fire truck and if it's got a canopy over it I don't think that little space is going to get a canopy I mean potentially they could go around the corner with a canopy but I don't think they're going to do it but if they do it they definitely have a problem with that corner yeah um do you want to introduce so we sent our letter about the environmental impact state statement or study rather should we mention that here I think in relation to the location proximity to the property line

126um we have concerns about how it might impact the foundations and and budding properties introduce away um let's see um I'm looking at the letter actually well the first thing we said on item two was the Africa needs to produce an Eis environmental impact study assessing the impacts of developing the entire site in particular putting in the below grade parking garage the constant vibration of the trains and the properties proximity to the railroad tracks less than 100 feet away and then critical neighboring properties for Eis consideration we talk about the railroad building and also the gas station we didn't actually talk about and we should have the proximity to nearby well we actually at the very end of number three we say where these properties in mind is the digging Jackhammer and dribbling and Blasting

127will create additional significant vibrations to both Parcels as well as other nearby structures you could lift that right out of the letter if that was easier or we can reference the letter c letter of God did I not date this August 2nd to the planning board that's great actually you want to say item three of the letter or just say see the letter let me just say see the letter that's simpler it's sort of all related to the i i e uh e-i-s yes um we felt there does not need to be oh so we've already actually we addressed this and I think it's an issue if if planning board isn't reading this and um [Music] taking our comments into account but um I would actually why don't you keep well you just got highlighted

128and after it in red just say see above see above comment yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna put it here because I want to I want to keep this the way that it was um eight point yeah right okay um so this one applicant shall consider constructability of excavation um I would just leave it we didn't discuss it just leave it I mean I could write this same thing actually about the environmental impact study yes yep okay we didn't talk about the pergolas that were a topic of conversation on 615 I think we just say this need wasn't discussed needs work wasn't discussed and still needs work that we did talk about and he's supposed to continue showing us that stuff which he doesn't have yet um that's what I had written oops I had written

129an applicant to provide box of samples after next meeting about um this is about the pocket part though right and I just think we it's not it's not ready yet we just say we still haven't received it hasn't been hasn't been I'd like to say really discuss but we discussed it a little bit um hasn't been thoroughly discussed materials not at not yet received so what we want to say about the the benches we talked a little bit about Planters at the edge of the commercial patio spaces or um why don't you make a note there it says consider Planters with benches built into them because I've seen a couple examples of that now are we should we just say seating no one really uses benches when's the last time you sat on a bench

130they're uncomfortable you can't like use a laptop I feel like like a cafe table and chairs would be a lot better or at least say seating okay let's start like depending on where you are there are some sidewalk places that have actually seen where they have seating built into the Planters literally um and it might be like long bench sections actually okay I'm sorry yeah I just saw benches but benches I think we have to like you know um we're not going to get them to do all of what we want them to do and I think we have to have some latitude here and then you know in a crowded area when there's no other scene people will use benches and I think on a you know if you wanna if you're going along

131on a sidewalk and you're looking for a place to sit and there's no chairs but there's a bench available people will use the benches so you can't like decide what people are gonna do if that's all there is out there that's they'll use it so I think there was an idea to use these as a buffer from the street as well Planters is a buffer from the street yes so that would still be on the inside because we talked about that don't put the benches on the outside of the street put them on the inside because nobody's going to sit on the outside of the street unless they have a bus stop which we haven't even discussed and and to reduce potentially do this as an option instead of the the large amount of landscaping

132that they're proposing right right Brendan you you your point is to reduce the amount of just extraneous landscaping and kind of pull it back and create more usable space in that area isn't that oh did we lose him looks like we lost him where'd he go yeah we might have lost them hang on oh he lost power yeah we lost yeah so can you still keep going or Draw no I I have power I said we lost Brendan oh okay okay do we know that he lost power yeah he said that he just texted me oh so I didn't think it was is it raining out oh I'm surprised I didn't lose power this morning I used to with chrome I'm I missed the yes I missed the um there was a little bit of

133Thunder I don't think I saw that much lightning but maybe I missed it I mean we got some serious downpours I was just keep going yeah let's keep going so um we could put in the comment well I think we need we need to have these meetings with Brendan if he's going to have these comments about the Landscaping because he and I fundamentally disagree about some of it but I think he's on to something perhaps we we might be able to simplify it um so uh where's the actual I can't read that right now yeah can you can you can that there are ghosts much better thank you I think we just leave that and move on I I don't I don't quite I don't quite know what to do with the Landscaping right now

134we really need him at the meeting we need to have a a comment about it yeah I'd like to understand how um we can we can come to resolution about that streetscape and if we want more landscaping or less Landscaping well I think I haven't sent you a couple of things I need to send you I was actually hoping I was going to get some more stuff sent back by one of the suppliers who has totally ignored my request right now so I don't know how they do business they must have some giant projects and they don't care about somebody asking for some stuff for a design Review Committee um just just leave that um this wasn't confirmed yet but I think we should leave it on here I do too and I actually think

135we need to tell them to label it as the Street sidewalk on the drawings it might be apparent to some people it's not going to be apparent to everybody well what would that be if it wasn't the Street sidewalk maybe it's too appeared I don't know if it would be something that they would be providing and then to be an additional Street sidewalk which is how they got into trouble with 12 pond um it just needs to be clearly labeled that it's the town sidewalk not the applicants Town sidewalk period I would yeah simpler is no yeah just take off yeah there we go I think that's good and so we have the note in here already about the underground utilities that confirm if that extends down a homer so I think just put put

136it back in there again oh yeah you take it out it just you know all of this needs to be reviewed in more detail right you know what yes understood um G point six applicant to verify the net change in the previous surface we didn't discuss this um that needs more discussion I mean they're talking about it being paved back there but it's it's not really paid anymore and it's rough whatever is out there so it's a lot more pervious than they think it is [Music] but you know some of this is you know we're we're in this process of the planning board giving approval for the project to go forward but where where'd like at least a year or two away from actually seeing a permit issued for this project and some of these

137questions would would come out of the final design documents and and um you know when it actually goes through permit review well you know it was like the discussion about the critical root Zone where Julian said he would definitely Mark those trees and actually we have to figure out where to put that in here um and and we need to see this stuff on on drawings and we need assurances that it's going to get in there I actually think it's down here under landscape yeah is it was this on the original site plan I think what we just say is um assurances were received from the applicant because sorry this is a new item yeah because Julian and I think it was wreck actually said those that the critical root Zone documents could be put

138onto the onto the actual construction drawings so that appear and I was like that would be great that would be fine because as long as they're either have to be in the planning board decision called out on the planning board decision or they have to be on the final drawings but if we don't call it out here it could it'll get forgotten or it won't happen at all these are the existing root zones is that right for for trees that is protecting the existing trees as discussed protecting the critical root zones of the existing trees as discussed C diagrams sent by design review and you all were cc'd on those documents today which is part of the same package of stuff that we I don't even remember how long ago it was now do you

139remember how long ago it was that we sent that stuff over to the planning board I think it was it's been some time yeah like at least 90 years right yeah yeah because I remember that was a meeting where Trisha Kendall said oh my God this this planting diagram is showing to take the metal basket off the tree and we just pulled the dead tree off our property it had the metal basket still on it and I was like yep I go to properties and people say why is my tree dead and I go who planted it for you did you all plant it and they go no you know somebody else came and planted it I'll go well let's take a look I always find I always find the wire basket sometimes it's sticking

140up above so what what is the action item on this word we want the planning board to include that in there um in their decision no uh could be added to the construction documents that's the action item construction documents comma two per to protect existing trees on site and you could say C diagram Sent By Design Review Committee the planning board has prevent previously seen not sending anything new okay let's keep going here so this is um site sustainability not building sustainability permeable pavers um we were expecting the design and detailing of the pavers and we did talk about this um that they're they're drivable pavers that then get um you know that pattern you don't see over time well he needs to show us that stuff Kevin because I'm I'm going back and forth

141about what he actually said about specifically what the product is [Music] um and um uh the other thing he said is because I was talking to them about the shoes on the snow plows so I was asking basically to make that whole patio permeable on the front and they could use shoes on the plows they could specify in their operations and maintenance plan that whoever was plowing it was going to have shoes shoes on their plows and that's a term for the little gizmos they put on the bottom of the plows like 50 a pair they're cheap actually for what for a plow they're incredible actually it just raises a plow enough so you're not catching the corners and picking the bricks up because the plow it the entire plow surface is down on the

142ground it picks the bricks up it's almost impossible not to do it I mean you can do it if you raise the plow a couple of inches but most operators forget to do it and then it's too late so that's why they put the shoes on the bottom you need to say permeable pavers and that well both the three three adjectives yes please on the products plural and the method of plowing the papers as required by the fire department well the fire department doesn't specify plowing they specify clearing so the clearing of the snow piece um is something they were they were specifically going to address in their o m plan that if it was getting plowed they would use um the the the shoes on the plows wanted to call them bumps but that's

143not the type of proper technical term all right I'll just take that on the it's actually clearing it's not plowing the papers you have to say clearing because they might snow blow we can't be telling them how to do it they can just say clearing the pavers of snow of snow I mean you could do like semicolon if plowing they will use um plow not Wheels um plow shoes specified in their o m plan um [Music] are they wheeled what are they no column column column shoes please because only a couple of them were Wheels actually because I I spent a bunch of time looking at this at one point but it took me a while to figure out what it was until I found a document from Minnesota that talked about it and then

144I could look them up and most of them are they're um I don't even know how to describe them but they're similar to the pads you put on the bottom of furniture except giant for plows yeah I know what you mean I just don't know what they what they're and they pulled to the bottom um they're called snow they're called plow shoes I'm telling you what they're called it seems it seems a little weird but they're actually plow shoes oh oh sorry it's an actual term there you go it's no shoes which is something entirely different exactly um papers are do you want to mention what they told us about the the rating of the pavers they they said that they're age 20 rated for drivability and I was gonna say that they'll be filled

145in with Clover rescue and Wildflower um well actually he's getting us the seed mix for that because I I don't I have to look up that seed mix so you need to put that in there actually they're going to provide the seed mix because they're providing seed mixer listen for the patio um one of those was uh the one up on the patio is full of a lot of annuals it will not stand the test of time like they'll have to keep constantly reseeding it okay do you want me to change anything or is that 8-20 rated or they actually say that as H2O and people know that it's not water rated um looks like it's h-20 yeah I'd put h-20 in there just to make it clearer to people although this website is not

146uh doesn't have the dash yeah yeah I'd put H dash 20. otherwise there's going to be a lot of confused people around because if you look up 8-20 it shows up with the pavers right I don't wanna um you can't spend the time doing that let's just put h-20 if we're wrong somebody will be sure to tell us the whole drawings so are um maybe we don't do anything with this one they still always several drawings right well we they actually did they're in the latest documents we didn't really discuss them so I would leave that for right now okay maybe this should be up with the building um well no I no we didn't we discuss it up in the building already yeah so maybe I take it out all right well I we

147have sustainability there what's up at the top before you start taking stuff out I'm not taking anything out yet I was just looking at sort of sustainability about the building this is what we have noted right but I think that isn't what we had up top about parking um because we were talking about so why was this up I don't think we've meant we've talked about the park number of parking spaces uh oh okay I can't tell we haven't got we haven't gotten there yet okay so let's just leave it here and keep going I'm I'm less concerned that we might be being redundant than I am that we're yeah at 10 o'clock and we're right okay um they were to provide a grading plan which I think is related to the Civil so let's

148just leave that one on there yes um this one's about the loading zone for only two vehicles and the axes across the site that could potentially be a problem right and the other thing is that that's actually labeled for emergency vehicles on at least one drawing so which is a yeah oops so I should mention that here I think so so this is the new comment on this one and I had put this in here during the meeting we talked about having more space for um you know having more usable patio space in front of the commercial development um it's a very general comment but maybe we leave it I think we leave it okay because I think it wasn't is that in red it's not in red um are you are you um so

149maybe we leave it then because you've got other ones that aren't in red either that's fine yeah because I think it's really that they hadn't addressed this you know this is a follow-up comment and they haven't addressed the main well in common we actually need Brendan to have that discussion with them we need to and and I think it needs a lot more I need some some real thought um the discussion of the landscape though I feel like is secondary to the building maybe not being viable because of the the lack of parking and the size of the project on the site you know should we focus our time on on that discussion and and also you want to say that exactly what you just said because that actually is the Crux of the issue

150here or if we say it in the in the email that I send over to them that accompanies this document yeah because honestly I think that's part of that's part of what we keep wrangling about here is that that's really the big issue right I mean I kind of feel like we're right now wasting our time on on smaller issues well I do too um so I think um since you keep saying exactly that I think I'm going to ask you to send this email on behalf of the committee that goes with this when we when you're done because I think that would be that's that's actually real I think it's really important and I think they I don't know for whatever reason they haven't they haven't uh thought about this but it's candy that

151we're meeting with them on Thursday so foreign are we working this into a final version that we're sending tonight I hope so all right um meeting tonight like this yeah okay I mean I also feel just the further my point I also feel like talking about the materiality of the building um is is maybe premature as well which I don't want to say because you know I'm happy that we're reviewing the project um but maybe there's a a calculation there's a numbers game there's you know something about the feasibility of the project that might not be working and we should be um between the planning board and ourselves we should be focused on that before we start you know approving materiality and Landscape I I yeah I mean I think that's part of the problem

152here is that they're shoehorning giant project into a small space and trying to make it work and then you know honestly what we don't actually know from our end is how much we don't know because we don't have anybody on we don't have a consultant on our end in the town who can say to us this building is making more than enough money or it's barely breaking even we don't have somebody to actually specifically tell us that and I've always felt like ever since these really giant projects started coming in that we actually need somebody uh you know on the town payroll that you know we put that cost back into the building permit or the site plan application however they do it so that we we can consult an expert like that because then

153we would have a much better idea of where we stand in terms of you know getting stuff set back a little more if we want it getting it to look a little better separating it in two buildings instead of one because they're going to lose some units that way you know um the issues with the parking I mean the issues with affordable housing all that stuff would start to sort of fall into place the only thing that I know of is the stuff that I sent out a lot earlier this year to design review in the planning board that I found after hearing about it um hearing an interview and then listening to it again online was the stuff about the parking spaces and how costly they are per unit in a building and I

154was shocked I had no idea they could be upwards of you know between ten and twenty thousand dollars a unit for the parking spaces and you know that really flips some of the equations of of putting these projects together I think it's even more if it's you know you're trying to build a parking garage and especially one underground well I think they said that actually I think they were talking about above ground parking for the 10 to 20. not you know parking spaces below and not adding the the things like they have I think over it 12 Pawn the stackable Parkers because that's you know those are expensive so okay so where are we with us sorry I was just looking at this the summary of gcg's report and they talk about the the layout

155of the lower level parking and the lack of parking spaces I'd it so I I think this goes hand in hand with the environmental impact study you know we're saying that that should be conducted and also a traffic impact study should be conducted to you know if they don't have enough parking on site how does that impact you know people are parking um somewhere else in the downtown right so one of the things I want to get into this report is the comment about The Pedestrian Crossing and having some kind of a a lit pedestrian crossing the second somebody's standing there on the sidewalk to go across the street and I think they have a smaller signal over at the library now okay where oh here well pedestrian access there you go can you blow

156that up a little more later it gets the harder it has let's see sorry seems like we're not going off the minutes but and we talk um back up before we do this I'm sorry did we talk about the solar panels on the parking which I think we did up above on sustainability yeah at the beginning we talked about the uh the canopy can we just say see note from above under sustainability oh yeah I was going to come up to these well we didn't talk about this one either um so solar studies um well so this is about that was actually the shadow studies yeah and she'd say shadow not solar and that that needs to be revised [Music] that's if that was on yeah um and then where do we have this thing

157about the parking and the EV I was at the very beginning we didn't have it under sustainability it's under the building sustainability so that we have two sections of sustainability one is about the building and one is about the site and so we we put that here weren't we also going to say on this that we were going to um I think we just make a note after at the very end of this see further notes above or below wherever they are regarding solar canopies yeah that's great thank you okay some reason it's that handoff is highlighted for some reason yeah oh that's because you were looking for it okay never mind okay we're almost there um so this one we didn't look at yet the bar the the north bar was moved North by

158two feet um I said that it feels more generous which is generous for me to even say that um why don't you say feels a bit better I wouldn't even you know what I'd take that out all together just leave it and that was actually um to put raised Planters wasn't it yeah but I'm going to say however um it was noted that the raised planters will contain material um that that may may not grow high enough to provide provide the intended privacy right and then applicant was asked to provide different plant materials and to look at the seed mix because they were just going to do that with a seed mix and um I I don't I actually don't think that's going to be that's going to work necessarily it would work as if

159it was a baseline for like a tree growing out of it or something but it's not going to work it needs to be it needs to be looked at really closely so they don't take care of it it's just going to be horrifyingly awful up there agreed okay so now we can go back down to pedestrian access um access to rezies through garage and a main lobby off of Homer Ave um that's just a note we don't have to do anything with that um it's actually I think that needs work because you have it as it's through that main lobby but it's it's awkward maybe we say that in there mm-hmm um it's awkward and would need lots of signage to work that's a good directional signage to work I think it actually needs a

160redesign like forget signage actually well then put in there like that because I couldn't agree more let's push for a better design not signage that takes tries to make better Aid or poor condition yes thank you redesigned with with with separate [Music] um commercial and residential so we redesign period yeah okay well I was trying to say that I think the two uses should be kept separate I think they should be kept separate don't you no not necessarily the residential entry sequence is awkward I think you could say that in there because if they if they design it better and they have proper signage then there's no reason why you can't walk into the to one lobby and you go one way for the residences and the other way for the commercial and in fact

161you can do that over at The Bagel table because you have to go out into the lobby in the back to get to the bathroom that Services all of the commercial entities in that building I got challenged being out in that Lobby one day like what are you doing out here because I the person didn't recognize me and I said I was coming from the bagel table well I think that's why they should be separate we we typically design a totally separate entry for the residences so that they feel like they're they have their own space it it's secured it has different access hours so if you want to say something to that effect then we should probably because that would make sense because there's no real way to secure it otherwise which is a

162really good point um and that's just like one more thing they don't really have enough room for in this building I think it will be tough It's a security issue also because it's not easy to you know you can't question a customer a commercial customer well it's awkward when you do because that's what it was when when the person who's questioning me realized that I was actually there for a legitimate reason they didn't like it very much but they couldn't say much more yes security of yep perfect okay I I you know I would have said residential versus commercial if you want to do change that because it's really the yes I think there you go because when I'm If I'm renting a place I'm not going to check you know how many entrances it

163has you won't even think about it until it becomes wrong actually okay what else we got here Kevin public part um public bike parking uh residential bike parking provided in a garage quantity to be reviewed um we didn't talk about this really not really yet and they sort of tried to they sort of tried to push off the public bite stuff would be up to the they try to push that off onto their commercial tenants but I don't actually think I don't actually want them to get away with that comment oh I think they need to be a little more thoughtful about it that's why I brought up the benches with the bike things um okay I don't know what to add to this right now I I want to add some new well I

164want to finish adding the new items that we want yeah so you so you're looking for an item about lit pedestrian crosswalks thank you Allah all ants there's ghosts because that was one of the comments and um site lighting must be reviewed along with the Town Street lighting in congestion and appropriately shielded from residential Apartments we would recommend Street Bollard or or street level lighting as opposed to overhead lighting for this very reason I think he did mention it will be Pollard or the you know the landscape lighting I think they're not planning for Street lighting but the Town Street lighting will definitely affect the residents right and I think we need to say all this and that in this comment I'm I'm totally with you because that that's going to be obnoxious if you're

165in that the Corner Apartments over there and the town street light is there I had one where to put this could this be under a landscape site improve I think I need to move this up to site improvements what are what is it under right now it's under pedestrian access well okay so either way we still need lip pedestrian crosswalks and we still need lighting at the street level and I think we say that there and then move this the rest of this comment in its entirety up to the top so some of it you're going to copy and put it up there Kev I think that's the best way to do it I think we call it Street lighting or street level lighting I don't think we'd specify Ballers necessarily because they street level

166lighting like bollards because it could always come from if they used like gooseneck signs on the signage their spillover from those signs facing down sorry my cat's meowing pity in the background I couldn't hear it oh God I want to say that so we recommend that um the the towns Street lighting be considered in um in in how it might impact the um the residential units along Homer and Alden I think I would take the word might and use how it impacts because there is no doubt in my mind that it's going to impact unless it's on that pole foreign so he was actually talking about yeah just keep going signage site signage was not reviewed [Music] um we've already talked about this above so I would just put take if proposed and put period

167after review Ed here's parking again yeah so I just say see needs more discussion per gcg peer review of June I think that's June 3rd okay you could say from June which believe that one as it is as well yes I made a note about the commercial space I was updated and they relocated a stair um which resulted in the current plan that they submitted do we want to see an entrance on Alden or on Homer excuse me for that last space now that we were discussing well Brendan was still on with us before he lost power um does Alden want to be a Commercial Street should there should there be entrances at all in Alden and if not then there should only be an entrance on Homer I think well uh to be perfectly

168blunt I don't like that back exit through that back hallway and I think that Brendan was essentially agreeing with that and you know and grumbling about the general design period of what we're seeing and wanting something more and the consistency piece to me says if every single potential block off section calls for that or you know has a space like that then potentially they could put it there anyway because it'd be consistent and then they might not use it I mean there's plenty of places where I see doors and they aren't being used and they'll have signage on them says please go around to your left to the entrance um but it's there in the event of you know a fire or something in fact there's a a shoe store that moved from its original

169location in Newton to a new development farther up on Washington Street and they have a couple of those doors to get to the side door in the back off of part of the parking there and there's a street door on the side street that they're located on I've seen that multiple times so I I just think they I don't know I think they can put a door in for that it will look better and it gets used or doesn't get used I mean if they were for instance gonna put a dance studio in there I can see that being a I think the dance studio will actually have to erect some kind of walls inside so they have enough bar space keep some of the lighting from the front and you know do some kind

170of something on the front to make it look good I don't actually know how that would work over there I don't know I I think I'm agreeing with you that I mean there's I think there's a fundamental code issue with that long cord or anyway I think there might be a dead end Corridor situation it's not code compliant um but in addition to that there should be more direct access to the front and out the back of each commercial space tenant space yeah I think that far space is depicted on the right just needs a an entrance on homework just to keep up the continuity um where was I going to put that well well it could potentially go under miscellaneous or it goes back up I don't know at the top Maybe I think

171that's good okay let me do this so did we get thing about parking space number 17. Kevin uh did you mean uh due to parking the radius sorry here oh yeah yeah I do where did I see that parking it's here uh same same above right here uh 8.3 where your cursor is the first line on the bottom bottom uh 8.3 Point 2023 that's the date though what no no no in the parking radar you you actually have parking radio in that comment yeah yeah that's what it should be radius right that's a plural of radius actually unless it's a little awkward um but I think that actually is the official plural okay okay um have we could put uh I I think it's I think I'm over tired because I still I don't still

172I still don't see where I wrote Radio all right hold on a second don't worry about it we we sorted it out it's okay it's right there and I think that is the correct plural of radius yes it is okay so let's go back to this other one which is uh astobus bus 40 engine and and uh uh parking numbers parking lot space 17 [Music] and other than under traffic we we should just put another one here we should just make one more entry under this in in traffic it's not the traffic per se it's well it's the fire engine traffic per the gcg report and parking lot number 17. space number 17 excuse me and we might just say in this especially since we've asked for solar canopies out there do you want to

173say that we agree with the juice the gcg report sure um overlaps with the with you know so what was it was the what's the name of the apparatus the uh ask ash toe which I think is a s h t o bus 40. I'm not sure why I think that I might have seen it somewhere else so uh do you want to go back to EV parking for a minute because I'm looking at the minutes um yes I'm just finishing this one would be actually much already um it's called turning turning study okay where do you want me to go well this is going back to the EV stuff where we had this conversation because George was asking part of the question about what voltage the EV stations were and he actually said 240

174at every spot and then he goes well you don't expect that I'm going to pay for this to you and um we actually pointed out that lots of places actually do provide for a couple for commercial and and some for the residential so I think he was he was asking about who pays for the electricity yeah so one aspect is the installation and the other one is who's paying for the electricity that charge cars every time I hook up to it right and that's why I think we talked to them about grants and to look into it and see and to see essentially because um and he said he would I mean he was talking about having that solar expert so I'm assuming the solar expert knows knows something about all of that but a

175lot of these other places are going to provide some of them and then you know I don't know maybe they were going to have cards or whatever but there are some some that have been gotten with grants and there's no charge for them okay um and can we so we don't do we have anything somewhere about site furniture okay uh because I think we should rethink the we should rethink some of the site Furniture so that we're we can combine the bench and and biking and bike rack do a combined bench bike rack unit at the very least yeah do you want to try to mention that in relation to the Planters in the ideal World they would also be part of the Planters yeah this is ashto by the way oh thank you of

176course it is it is a double a double a s h t o uh planter yeah I've seen that before as a butter from the street I shouldn't be doing this anymore thank you okay so open space and Community let's put it in there yep as maybe creative creative organizing of site furniture to potential to potentially combine functions of of planters with built-in benches that also function as bollards and bike racks leave it at that we'll organize inside first my function to planters there you go lovely and then um somewhere in landscaping we just need to say that they're they're looking into trees to other species of trees they could use up front and it's and it's actually dependent on the heights of the poles and the wiring native tree species yes well um let's

177just say trees right now because I told them I said look at Natives and then if you really can't find any we would consider some other ones and I I would like them to use natives but I'm not sure he's going to find them depending on the on what happens to those phone poles and how low the wires are [Music] and he was looking into cerseus in particular but um it's hard to know based on what you read about sources whether it would work there versus what I know I saw on up at the intersection of um foreign Ty and 126. as you're coming from the south or on the left-hand side or they were so you want to say that that can grow tall but [Music] um well no no I I just think

178we have to avoid conflict with the wires and leave it at that they have to figure that out I mean you can always go to the New York Street Tree City list and find a bunch of examples but I don't know how many of them are native [Music] um checking my notes okay oh um that patio up above [Music] we need to say something about the fact that the applicant agreed to use bison wood paver as opposed to um fake artificial turf it could be outrageously hot in the summer now you excuse me once you're done with that let me know what was it that they were proposing that would be hot the oh the stone pavers no well artificial turf no yeah is turf is a different connotation than pavers you know the pavers

179are going to be hot but Turf you think it's not going to be hot there's there's a ton of issues now with kids playing on a fake Turf and you can't play in really hot weather because it's incredibly hot and they get contact Burns third degree burns when they fall on it they get dehydrated much more quickly um oh I wanted to mention the three units that I don't know well I shouldn't say who's aware of of what or not but the three units that only have access from The Green Roof I think is it it that really shows to me that the plan and they have access going in from the building also no they don't and I think that is the craziest okay yep then no you need to say that I don't

180know if gcg said it but just say it in this because that's important these three units there's no hallway they said you know they couldn't get a hallway through here so they just give them one that's right no you you need to say that I think that's important unit one two and three that's another way I wouldn't even specify the units I'd just say three of the units you have it I have it in this in the notes is three units have access only from the green roof this may be an egress and life safety issue that must be reviewed to the Building Commissioner yes so I think it seems like you did take some of my notes and Incorporated them them into yours that was one of my yeah I don't know if I

181cut and paste it or if I actually wrote that in because at the time when you brought it up I was like wow he's making a really good comment here it's funny this comment actually doesn't fit in and you are here because um it might be outside of our purview but it's a it's it's it's a it's a really important comment it's kind of like the end of the commercial space that I was talking about where I think it needs another egress to Homer I mean it's our job to notice stuff and talk about it they're telling us all kinds of things are out of our purview right now but the project is better off if we say something when we see something sorry it's 10 45. you're right but um we I think it's

182we we're we're holding this meeting on a Tuesday because I thought it was important to send this to the planning board before they met on Thursday so I wanted to make sure that all right and then I wanted I want to quickly approve the June 15th minute so we can at least say yeah we've done that oh is 10 45 the cutoff no no cut off 11 basically saying we gotta like we we've got to get through this because tell me what you'd like to do I'm losing my mind here um I think we need to I don't think I think we're almost done with this aren't we yeah I think we are yes and are you yeah because I've actually been looking at your oh I might have read that thing about the green

183roof off of your notes actually yeah that makes sense okay the only other weirdo thing was what Terry said to us at the end after we adjourned mm-hmm logs in our report actually you just said the city of noon is about to adopt a vibration ordinance system whereby licensed vibrations control person would sign off on it City council's permitting Authority for Newton and they fashion these amendments and their planning board manages this I just fixed a typo um but I thought that was really interesting we need to remember that for tomorrow Okay so are we happy with this I think I wanted to add the item that I I brought up about um about passive house the applicator Terry mentioned that you know next next we'll be asking for Passive house but actually the billing

184code kind of requires passive house because of the stretch energy code I don't know if um that would be under sustainability wouldn't it yeah okay and maybe we just make a section that we keep for forever it says stretch energy code we can just keep it under sustainability I think that um you know what else they said that we haven't put anything about in this yeah what's that about the chamford Granite curbing for the reinforced line or the concrete line [Music] and the more he talks about using that that product is concrete the more I'm disliking it there's another plastic grassy pave makes a a has a um product that will meet fire engine specifications because I've seen it in lawns around um assisted livings I've only seen it because I got hit by the

185plow and pulled up that's how I knew it was there are they proposing a concrete drivable paver it says reinforced line or concrete line and I'm like what is that oh look while you type um what was I adding uh about the chamford curbing that area the concrete permeable pavers actually is a grid that doesn't get grown over you would you would still see the grid um yeah I think we should actually tell them that we don't want that but the other one the reinforced line is what I'm thinking of and it's a series of grids you roll out until like soil and then you plant grass seed into it [Music] um yeah I'm looking at the product trugridpaver.com okay there's like half a dozen of here on the front yeah see I don't I

186don't want to I absolutely don't want concrete out there because concrete gets too hot and it looks terrible but they need to tell us what they're proposing but I I thought it was something like this that's what I thought too so I think we need to tell them not to use concrete lawn for concrete pavers for that purpose and just leave it at that we don't want to see it out there because it won't work I mean that's why I don't want to see it and it looks awful all the time that looks awful yeah there's tons of this stuff on the market now and we used to have two or three the only downside is that I think it's a plastic product so it's not um but it is a hundred percent recycled plastic

187so there you go yep none of them are any good I mean concrete takes God knows how much okay so does everybody think this is it now yeah I think so I might um I will I can do this right yeah um it's fine if you want to send it tomorrow morning we're just gonna uh tomorrow and do a last look at just the formatting but not not content and then I'll send it along well if you see some errors fix them please I mean you know and you I think that it would be perfectly acceptable do I like I guess I want you to weigh in on this but from my point of view be perfectly acceptable for you to say that thing you keep saying about this building period and the parking and

188all that in the email that you will send it with unless you can figure out a better place to insert it into this document and say it because I you know we we we're having a hard time with it and it's possible that's the same reason the same and the same manner that the planning board is having a hard time with it for the same reason um I realized we didn't we didn't put a comment on on this um Plaza space item that's that's why we started having part of the big big question I think I think it really requires further discussion as related to site furniture did we put that uh point in sorry if we have already uh corner where Kevin said it was not it didn't seem like eight feet the left

189side corner entrance the distance from the walkway to the building Edge um it's that commercial section yeah I think that's the place to put it because we're talking about the street Edge um and it's going to be next to the driveway entrance extra extra attention should be given there you go yeah to site plan measurements or in the required um setback of eight feet setbacks of eight foot minimum 15 foot maximum in this Zone in this District oh I think we did eight foot okay it might be useful to say it twice here yeah if we don't have a list accompanying this right now so I'm less concerned about um being repetitious I think I don't want to try to even work on a list right now because we've added so much stuff and we're

190all tired so I think we just send this along hope they're good at reading it yeah the listing that's why I was highlighting items in red that that was the list we don't need to repeat it at the bottom just the red items or the the action items yeah well I I I'm gonna respectfully disagree I think lists are very helpful for people sometimes because then they know if not get off they've done it I think go to the next one but then it's incumbent on us to make sure the list is correct so so yeah I hope they read this yeah I actually don't disagree with you but in the limited time that we have to review these things and create reports um you know I I don't wanna yeah [Music] hello um okay

191so I'd entertain a motion like Kevin double checked this report for any errors tomorrow and send it off with an appropriate email to the planning board on behalf of design review I seconded all those in favor mode I see Rooney I Okay so we've got four minutes can we do um and I guess I'm going to do a very simplified notes and I'm going to embed the report and the notes in our minutes is and all right I'm just taking notes right now and then can we um we approve the June 15th minutes please yes I'm gonna pull those up uh I think I wrote them actually after you've done this because you can't take minutes and do this um we gotta have people help us do this more people taking minutes in the future

192because it's a really I can't take minutes when I'm running a hearing okay June 15th so this is this report should uh I'm sorry this these minutes should have report number one for 9 to 49 Homer attached to them this is this is our first meeting um yeah actually we let's see yes is my answer so um and I think I would put it after the paragraph about the list and just put it in there about the list what did you say yeah there's one to the third paragraph says the list we're asking for from the report I wrote it all down yes and I would just put the the report in there that's where I would insert it into that and I can do that unless you have time to do it tomorrow morning

193which would you prefer I would prefer if you could take care of it I would be happy to take care of that one okay I'll do my thing and you'll you'll do yours and uh I'm gonna entertain a motion the first motion is to approve the minutes of June 15th and I'm looking for a motion and a second I'll make the motion to approve the minutes from June 15th he's rolling I seconded it excellent all those in favor Kathy Rooney I okay and then uh I'm actually gonna make a motion at 11 o'clock to adjourn I seconded okay I'm entertaining it so I'm gonna put you as making the motion to Adorn I'll second it right 11p all those in favor which would happen okay definitely I okay excellent thank you very much for sticking

194in for so long so we can finish this tonight and thank you um Thursday I don't I don't know if I'm gonna if I'm gonna see you Thursday Kevin I think I'm gonna come on just to make sure she's not uh that there isn't an issue with the rep the letter yes yeah but um so we may not have a quorum but it won't matter it won't matter because if there are more of us that suddenly want to show up and be at the meeting then it has to be official if we're not we don't have to worry about it and we can just put something in it says we didn't have a quorum out there so we're set up to be able to do that right and that's actually the real reason after long

195after I talked to you about it I was like the real reason is in case the others change their mind and they want to come in they can um so that we don't we aren't constrained by trying to be efficient too efficient no sorry I jumped the gun on that one it's all right happens it was fine yeah except for us and and um when I figure out what the real reason was so we have some flexibility okay thank you all right everybody good night we'll see you again all right good night good night