Planning Board Meeting August 10 2023

001foreign all right welcome everyone again well you didn't hear me the first time um for the planning board meeting for Ashland Thursday August 10th 2023 we are really going to call the meeting to order at 7 58 after um many technical difficulties but we are we seem to be online so we're going to get right to our agenda and we're going to repeat what we already the few things that we already did so that means Kate back to you for the clerk report since the last planning board I'm reporting we received correspondence from four individuals some of those have been um multiple emails on topic I also want to report that of I received a call as a planning board member not as clerk on from somebody who had sent an email on a subject

002to the planning board and just to confirm to before we go forward again that members in our online on Zoom can hear us is is that right can someone okay yes we can okay good thank you before I keep going on this agenda with talking into space here okay so the next thing on our agenda is public comment and I will let Peter magic um manage the public comment thank you so at this time we have two people with their hands raised the first being Mr Mark desoni Mr Mark desoni can you please unmute yourself and state your name and address hey thank you good evening and take a look closing it should be so much fun to get through I have one question through the chairman to Anna tamadiski can I ask her a

003question um public comment usually isn't directed to specific members of the board but I will let Anna make that decision I I think I think Mark was wanting to ask you a question is that right Mark yes are you yes yes what's going on Mark okay first of all before I ask the question I think I think Kathy Jarrett's answering this I'm going to ask you in your words what is your goal as a planable member for this town what is my goal as a planning board member for this town yes what is in your in your mind's eye are you are you putting forth your best effort I would say you know Mark I recently got elected to this position fairly recently or re-elected I suppose um so I've thought about this quite a

004bit and thank you for your question I would say the primary goal I have for the term is to continue to be effective as part of the comprehensive plan efforts that as you know we've undertaken as a town and to continue to provide um input to this board to make decisions that are helpful to the community and allow public voice including yours to be heard great thank you that was that was good and through the chairman could I ask Deepa and Marcel of the same question um well Mark this is the question that you had asked one or two meetings ago and I offered the planning board that opportunity if they wanted to answer it's it's atypical it's it's certainly not required so I will leave that open but otherwise we're going to continue with

005public comment with either Depot or Marcelo like to respond they're both good so we are going to go forward with other public comment thank you the second raised hand tonight is through Mr Steve Steve Morgan Mr Steve Morgan can you please meet yourself and state your name and address sure uh Steve Morgan 136 Concord Street uh thank you for the time I had a couple of quick comments I guess first um I wanted to advise the board I became aware of an open position via your draft minutes which I had to ask for in public records so um it's coming up later in the agenda but I have submitted a talent Bank form to the open position uh hopefully that will receive consideration um I don't know that there was any artificial deadline but that

006with my first comment um and along with that I have observed that the board is continuing to be in violation of open meeting law is again behind on its minutes approval and I know that it's being worked but you know I now this is part of the reason I didn't know the open position was there so if the minutes had been posted I could have read them and so forth so those thank you for that um I do have one comment about a further agenda item if there's no public comment later I want to make a comment about Scenic roads uh specifically about Scenic roads I live on a Scenic Road I see Scenic roads and Scenic Road bylaws is the responsibility of the planning board not the sustainability committee and I object to folks

007not on Scenic roads trying to turn that into a sustainability issue so when you get to that topic if if I can be heard or if not I would suggest the planning board set up its own committee and keep it away from the sustainability committee who is also severely behind on its minutes this has gone on for now two years where they don't get their minutes out and they don't adequately engage with the public and keep people informed so I would just provide that comment and then finally my last comment is in regards to the construction going on behind my house I had to post my property no trespass because people brought a backhoe onto my property and Disturbed my property as a result of that I've also started re-looking at the requirements for that

008project as approved and I'm finding that there are numerous things that were not done including the the proper landscaping and vegetation was not planted it's only sparse a few epivities over here not what was on the plans there are issues with the planning board not having had a hearing about the screening and and such around the electronic sign which really doesn't belong on the street but you've allowed with restrictions but there was also a stipulation of a hearing to review that plan which never happened but the sign is on the street and so I would just ask and I know Peter and I had a conversation I would ask that the town actively review its plans with that project and ensure that they are followed and I have no objection to the fence being reinstalled

009with an existing location but I am not at all interested as was discussed in the public comment and having someone trespassing and moving the fence onto my property so I have posted it it's been registered with the clerk and I have spoken with Phil Conway the project manager so the town in the project is well aware and I hope to have a Cooperative relationship in in getting obviously the needed screening fence put in place as per the deed and moving forward so if anyone would like to come by and look at the conditions or discuss them I'm certainly receptive to any party that wants to approach it constructively so that's that's my public comment thank you and I'll take any questions if there are any um thank you Mr Morgan um as far as the

010planning board goes the um The Building Commissioner is obviously in in charge of enforcing the decision um and the project that the planning board approved two years ago other issues would be out of the jurisdiction of the planning board but um and I believe as far as going on site Peter has been there multiple times recently and it seems that the situation there is being observed that is cool thank you I thank you and I know my neighbors are also concerned they're not here but and I don't want to speak for them but um I have had Direct conversations that other assimily situated neighbors have been inconvenienced and nuisance by this um it was very disturbing to see this backhoe running on our property this week um and and you know this is unfortunate um

011I just want to clarify are you indicating the building official not Mr Magic should be responsible for enforcement Mr Morgan I can state that myself and town other Town departments have visited the this Mendez School site we are aware of all construction that is out there our Zone enforcement officer uh does do the enforcement of all plenty of Plenty board decisions that he is the authority and so therefore uh you know he is an enforcement armed along with myself and the Conservation Commission regarding anything around a property dispute I will state that that is a legal matter and the planning board is not the proper body to take up that discussion that discussion needs to be taken up in the court of law and I'm going to leave it at that thank you very much

012Mr Morgan well thank you for clarifying that I will direct my future concerns to the enforcement officials and now that I understand the uh the relationship thank you at this time I see no other public comment [Music] all right then we are moving on um to the fourth item on our agenda just as I think some people have come on um just fairly recently we had technical difficulties for the first 45 minutes of the meeting so um everything is running a little bit behind so um bear with us a little bit um so the next that I'm on an agenda is a discussion with the design Review Committee related to um the letter they submitted to the planning board dated August 2nd 2023 that letter is in our binders on the back of the um

013on right after the agenda um and I think it would be good first of all obviously we have the letter we have it in front of us um it would be good if maybe someone from the design Review Committee um Can Explain um why they decided to put this letter together why it's separate from the project at hand and give us a little bit of background on that there's someone that can do that am I being heard Still Mark desoni can you hear me okay I think Kathy's going to address this okay wish that would be I mean I just thought it'd be a good way to introduce the letter so that we understood your intentions and what you were what you were hoping to um hoping to relay by it um Patricia I can

014jump in and review this with the board sure that's fine so we wanted to send this letter just in advance of our next report which I think has been sent to you Kevin you are just you are just very quiet maybe you can move a little bit closer to your mic hopefully you're not having technical difficulties as well oh I'm sorry about that can you hear me yes that's better okay um we wanted to send this letter in advance of sending our report number two that I think came to you this morning um in regards to 949 Homer um we felt strongly about sending a letter separately from the report so that it would make it into the next conversation about this project um between the applicant and the planning board um in particular we

015wanted to address primarily the need for an environmental impact study to be conducted to address the the surrounding properties and um and and how this building could potentially um have have some impact on either seismic concerns character mousing scale and uh the underground parking garage that it would require excavation and could impact the adjacent of Butters we um that's that's basically the the intent of why we wanted to to send this along since this project has a um of every strong presence in the town at the edge of the downtown and could require extensive Demolition and and excavation to achieve the intent that the applicant puts forward does anyone else from the design Review Committee want to comment I would just add to what Kevin said that to primary concerns from my point of view

016one is the historic structure across the street and the fact that we want to ensure not only the continued viability of that property but also safety issues regarding gas station that is not far away and then also um very important point for the entire town is that we protect ourselves from any potential cost that may be incurred if the recently um done improvements to the electrical supply and sidewalks and things like that I understand that the exact property is not part of the Town work that's being going on but there are adjacent areas and there are issues that we are wanting to be sure that the town doesn't end up with uh any disgruntled citizens or damages to properties that haven't been insured and and that the town is protected from any potential Financial liability

017they've basically covered it and we um had some concerns from people who attended our meeting a couple of meetings ago and so we thought it was really prudent to take the time to write this letter which is why we did it thank you thank you um I just wanted to note that the board knows as well um Peter and I um as a response both to as part of the conversation that the board was having about putting the utilities underground and trying to understand that process but also after receiving this letter Peter and I and Alvaro um met with um Mike Carter who is the current president and one of the founding members of gcg and who's also overseeing the downtown project is or the third party review for the downtown project is that right

018correct so I can just speak to that so the town so gcg who does our third party reviews they've been working in the town for about 25 30 years gcg was just hired by the town through this through the town marriages office to help oversee the project from a third third party review and so gcg is here in town doing uh visits to um all aspects of the downtown project and so because I knew they were going to be here on Tuesday uh Trisha and I did set up a quick meeting with Mike and we walked down to the site with this letter in hand just to discuss any any any of the the concerns that came up it was actually during the tornado warning and it was we were hiding under the old Trace

019station roof you know as well so taking one for the team here but um the point was when I read this letter and please correct me if I'm wrong um yeah the planning board as we have had a little bit of lull in our schedule due to the housing moratorium have been taking an opportunity to kind of educate ourselves on the role of other committees and things in town and so when I read this I felt and like I said correct me if I'm wrong that it's it's definitely related to the project at hand but it's also seems like educational questions that would be good for the board as well things for us to review like how you know it does raise important questions like if you're digging um you know you're digging underground parking

020in the middle of downtown or on the edge of downtown you know how does that work so so we kind of engaged Mike Carter um his actual site meeting got canceled because of the rain so he had time for us but we stood out there um and just actually looked at the site and discussed these issues with him um kind of kind of one by one I don't know if we covered everything um and and you know in his experience to understand you know what um what did what type of danger does this put other properties in what is the proper procedures to follow what type of things would be um appropriate to put in conditions how do we make sure that the train station is is going to be okay so I'm not really

021sure how to relay then I guess I guess my first question would be is that also part of your intention to say okay this is about this project but how could this what if there's another project next year that's also in the downtown and the same questions are applicable would it be a kind of an educational component as well as saying okay this is how this stuff happens on this type of site is that is that fair or is just my reading into things no that's fair I think that that was part of why it took us so long to write the letters we had a serious discussion about it because we could see where this might have been useful for projects already that have happened in the town projects that are already being built

022and then um moving forward and you know we might be lucky there's a building moratorium right now so we have the time to consider these um thoughts and ideas so I'm not sure um I don't want to I'm gonna try to continue I can relay Peter and I can relate and kind of in brief the conversation we had with Mike Carter and then people can jump in or interrupt at any time is that Fair okay okay so um we started talking about like I said we didn't go through the through the points in order but it'll be easier for me to do so um one of the maybe we started talking about um um blasting and he said that as as we we kind of knew from other projects around town that blasting is um

023a highly regulated part of the construction process um it needs a permit from the fire department who controls um controls the process putting seismic readings at different locations to really understand what um what is happening um how far the blast is going how powerful the blast is in this case however he said he basically said they wouldn't blast they wouldn't give a permit to blast in in downtown Ashland and um and instead it would be ho ramming which is not what's that says typical hammery yeah yeah which is not um not all together pleasant but um but less um you know less uh like I guess the second less intensity less intense than um then blasting that's like a pile driver yes yeah oh another pile driver um no it would not be a pile

024driver this would be uh typically it's just a backhoe digging and then obviously if it hit lead you're just going to be using a hammer attachment on a on an excavator just to kind of hammer that like a big Jackhammer yes uh it would not be a pile of driver there'd be no uh that that's a little bit more intense uh obviously but uh so it would just be quite cool whole ramming is the is the technical term but it's just more or less a hammer attachment on an excavator uh the same attachment that you see at the at the at the new Starbucks site at 399 Union Street uh that is ho rammer it's breaking up the old Foundation the old concrete and that's just done uh you know across the board in in

025construction so I believe he said even though it's not um required maybe all the time for home reming that um that the same kind of checks and check systems could be set up but that the town might opt to set up the same kind of check systems as in surveying properties in the area before that begin for before that work begins so they can see if there's any damage due to the activity or um setting up the the seismic devices to to understand what the impacts are in the ground that those are things that aren't done all the time with whole ramming but that could be put in place given the location in downtown um as far as the ground settling and then he made a point that just um this kind of underground parking

026is um you know it's not unusual um even in downtown locations of course it happens it's probably happening at multiplications around multiple locations around Boston you know um right now so um so it's definitely not anything new um and is fairly typical he said in regard to the settlement of the ground that typical virgin ground is considered settled that it is 80 to 90 percent compacted and um when they typically get through compacting a foundation or after digging that it would be at 95 percent is um they'll be interested in it so industry standard when you're a backfilling and and vibrating and compacting Earth they typically look for about 95 for road construction for road construction base it's 95 so that is the compaction level from a natural standpoint ground is about 80 percent compacted

02780 to 85 natural compaction just with gravity uh alone and so there's that 10 margin that you're looking to exceed when it comes to foundation and or roadway Construction and in terms of other damage um that happens as a result of these activities he's seemed to you know if the activities are done properly other things aren't damaged right that it's a normal part of the construction process and not unusual in any way so um so it was kind of a good um like I said good uh education as far as that and I'm summarizing here because we actually talked for quite a while out there and it might be good to have a more in-depth discussion about that at some time like I said for educational purposes he said um I think as far as

028an environmental impact study I believe that came up in one of the design review committee meetings I think Alvaro said that and I think we'll get to the we'll actually get to the applicant when we get onto the actual public hearing but I believe at that meeting the applicant said that they had some kind of environmental study done and was willing to willing to share that um and that would include soil sampling and things like that so they knew a little so they would know what the ground is like before obviously starting construction if it's how dense it is how much how much ledge is under there if any yeah that was true and obviously all the applicant we we can ask the applicant about that but I think overall uh this letter was shared

029with our engineer our third party engineer and so I think it's good that it's on it's on their radar to his concerns um I think it is key to note that um having a logistics plan uh is a very good is something that we probably need to look at just because the construction area is in a in the proposed construction area is in is in the downtown and the site is uh the site is the site right it abuts uh public ways and so we want to make sure that the any construction and I think it may make sense for all properties and projects within Ashland that we start proposing a a construction plan or a processing plan just to kind of get a general understanding it's something that we typically require in the pre-construction

030meeting but maybe it makes sense just to get it out front in first with the planning board just so everybody's on the same page moving forward because we did talk a little bit about how this project is very different than other ones that have recently come before the planning board like 100 and Chestnut Street and 501 Pond even Starbucks because it really is very on a compact site where a lot of stuff happens has to happen um obviously Starbucks isn't going to be you know digging you know like that so um so it's the a unique project in at least the past years it's as far back as I'm on the committee anyway um so um so it did seem like a an appropriate time to do a more in-depth look at that for projects

031that happen in this type of environment so I can take a pause there if anyone wants to have just a follow-up so can we get like suggested draft conditions or considerations like I picked up some from your comments but I wasn't there and you said it was more in depth and I think um that wasn't the stuff that was sent to gcg for review now that it's on the radar screen but maybe we specifically request maybe we should send a memo to a specific request based on your follow-up conversation and could we have suggested conditions yeah I would suck in that I think really really important because I I do appreciate your sharing what you learned but we for me the most helpful thing of this letter was a was a reminder that the bylaws

032for the Ashland downtown district my immediate thought was do we have jurisdiction to address these things and so looking at the Ashland downtown district by law 8.5 and the purpose of it which includes strengthening a sense of community National and building a downtown inherent assets historic architecture cultural offerings rekindling downtown cooperation Civic engagement and then section 8514 requires us I think it's 5 14. it requires us in our findings to um to find certain items have been addressed like pedestrian I don't remember all of them but it's essentially like pedestrian safety and consistency with neighborhoods I don't remember all the words but essentially it's right there so it seems like these four items squarely fit within our jurisdiction so it was helpful for me to look at the ladder and be like okay I can

033do that we can do that as a board we have the ability to address these four items but honestly I don't look to the bylaw enough when we hear projects and I think we should consider doing it more so that we better understand what we are able to do and we don't forget key elements because I do sometimes feel like unless someone brings it up we don't really have a checklist of things to think about yes this project is unique but we have a train station with a historic train station building a historic post office other historic buildings right there any development not just Homer is going to bring up the exact same issues so I second Kate point but I also think it's a really helpful exercise in checklisting areas of town and I

034wonder if as a planning board we might want to sort of say this is important to us design review seems to be very good at outlining those key elements if they have capacity to maybe look at our bylaw and offer us input hey for this District in town these are the things that we should be thinking about based on our bylaw you have jurisdiction and these this area of town these are the things you should think about and I kind of wonder if design review would be interested in that and if we as a planning board might benefit from there support because I don't think we always have time during our meetings to look to the bylaw are you um just to backtrack a little bit I think in terms of the possible um additions

035to uh conditions you know as far as construction I I think gcg seemed willing to help us out with that they suggested that there might be conditions that we put in there as far as um you know monitoring for like programming he talked about things like that and of course I think that's something that's yeah that's why we have gcg yeah they're professionals it's a professional site uh civil engineers and so obviously that's something that I'm I'm happy to coordinate with gcg uh not just for a learning experience but also from uh from something that we could add into all decisions yeah and then the second part of that and I think you were in terms of the bylaws that you're looking at looking most looking more at number one the um which is the

036the dealing with the historic nature of the town and everything that that encompasses and that I think is uh um I mean a more complex one one is about technical issues I think how do you do this how do you build in a downtown area without damaging anything else with getting traffic around with making sure pedestrians are safe during construction and all that um and the other one has to do the number one has to do more with design considerations and and that I think to me you know like of course I'm not the person on the construction site but to me is um an even more difficult question is because um because there's going to be completely polar views on uh on exactly those things you know issues of massing and scale and setbacks

037and and all those things and um and so I think what you were suggesting Anna and correct me if I'm wrong is to look at the bylaws and maybe bring up find points that we need to discuss more thoroughly about and where these kind of sorry where these different opinions make may arise and what the options are I think where I'm going with it to try to be more precise like I had not considered okay we have you know we're digging and creating under like if you think about it Underground Construction versus above ground parking space all this thing that is it's relevant specifically to that area because of the historic buildings combined with the train station so that is a unique thing that I didn't think about relative to downtown just it was helpful

038to see it in this letter and so what I was envisioning is design review is focusing on design in this way if there's other areas of town they have similar input on like hey this area of town has these unique elements any project in Pond Street is going to ask the same questions here is the top 10 questions we as design review think you guys should think about this part of town I don't know maybe are more industrial part of town like where we have the um the project we had last time with the um exactly mongonco Road might have its own unique things that maybe design review thinks we should be thinking about because this to me kind of struck as hey downtown history train station these things you guys should think about relative

039to not just Homer but any project in that area so what I'm I'm not visualizing them going through the bylaw we can read the bylaw I'm visualizing more of what clearly they're thinking about the unique Prospect of every single area and it would be beneficial I think for us to get this in a broader way so that we're not just focusing on one area one project but we're starting to see this community in a wider kind of whole holistic way that's what I was envisioning because I'd be curious what else have they thought about relative to other parts of town that we have some benefit from thinking about anyone else want to jump in I guess I um and written in the letter and listening to it what everybody has said I think there is

040I I I see like three different parts to it um relative to what we were just discussing on matching the historical nature of the place and what have you uh I I didn't quite get what the intent of this paragraph is it seems like like editorial which is which is fine but this this is what we've been doing there's nothing that we that we forgot here and I think we are sharing with with the design Review Committee a sense of purpose of of seeing the whole and I think on the discussions that we've had specifically for the project that this letter is addressing I think we've talked about those things and and I'm sure we will talk about that moving forward so that that is this doesn't I don't think this is actionable it's good

041to know but but it's it's pointed out as though I wouldn't read it as though something that we've missed or something that we were not aware of this is what we do in every on every conversation so so that I took that that way the other part is what Anna was just referring to uh the the technical nature and I'm glad that you and Peter had that discussion with with uh with an engineer um but what what it what's there was some uh blurring the lines in some of this language and the way I read it um and of course we we need to understand what happens on the private side of that property and on the public side which is where the project is taking place uh digging a hole to to make a

042parking uh if it's permitted on on the private land and and is being proposed by uh licensed professionals all these questions on technical Natures would have to be responded to it the way they're going to excavate the place is going to be directed by a geotechnical engineer that would describe the methods uh recommended and GCC would would comment and agree or not so I think we should kind of parse the technical nature and leave the engineers to to to to confirm to us that everything has been fulfilled uh and the last two parts I mean the protection of the of the of the train station I completely agree because I I and monitoring not only the train station but I think all the uh whatever is the proper radius of of of homeowners around there

043because when you're going to do that you want to make sure that we protect their their their interests so I I think that that as a condition that makes total sense to me and and and the last part the the um the I call it a strategic plan the the logistics plan uh makes sense for us to review I I don't think there's any question that the police are going to want to know what's going to happen the town hall there's a lot going on there um so so I I I think would be good to to to this kind of kind of weigh into a kind of a net of of items and I think it's good if we if we can kind of um look at which of those which I think is

044really the last ones that really uh I think we should we should uh settle on on on on what applies to this project and what a place to any other project similar um so that that's my comment it would be good to keep those things separate that's that's all I say Keith oh no deeper you want to weigh in okay um design review after hearing those comments do you want to come back and do you have any comments to make or um we've this is partly why we sent the letters we noticed that there was a problem we thought it would be reasonable to send you all a letter um I think if if you uh want to continue the educational piece it might be very helpful for um the guy from gcg to write

045us back a letter or write you all back a letter in response to what we sent so we can all sort of hear in quotes the conversation that you and Peter did because it sounds really interesting I'm sorry that I wasn't there um but I'm not sorry I missed the rain it was very last minute meeting I'm sure and then um I think that this might be something that maybe in the future they could also address in their reports I actually look forward to seeing their Pro their reports on every project because it gives us some insight about where there might be some Oddball things in town that we haven't thought about like a few meetings ago probably several months ago now um discussion was brought up at the planning board about the sizes of

046parking spaces in town and that maybe that needed to be reviewed because it was out of might we might be out of sync with other what other towns are doing now or thoughts about parking and then um because I happened to have heard something right after that meeting about parking I sent everybody a lot of documents about it um from uh an interview I'd heard so I think that these things are on our mind and as we find them we'll be happy to forward them to you all yeah I can certainly you know Peter and I can certainly look at you know ask gcg you know I what would be maybe the best way to have kind of a little educational session if it was might be easier for them just to tend to a

047meeting and talk to us versus I don't know writing a report usually takes a lot longer at least for me um um but they could do they could do something so people could find it later on and refer back to it and say oh yeah that's what they say about things like this because it was actually very educational it is very educational to read some of their reports it is it is I just uh try to be respectful of their time as well and Trisha one question um during that conversation did he race any alarm on on any specific subject that he thought oh we're gonna have to look at this or it was more uh okay we see this price and we will review these this and that you know this um as far

048as like the things maybe the general things on this list know he's like some of these things we're doing right now in downtown next to train station we're digging holes we're next to sidewalks and you know it's it's fine we do it all the time I think though when we're standing there looking at the site but this this maybe folds in a little bit more toward into the discussion actually with the applicant you know that comes next but you know as he was standing there looking at things like well they're gonna have to where does that wire go okay we're gonna have to do something about that and then we were talking about you know where the entrance to the site is and how there's a poll right there and it's not just the poll

049but the um the anchor line that has to be on that side I can't remember how many think he said nine feet maybe from the pole so they're things like that that [Music] um do have to be like he wasn't sure how it was going to be addressed and that would need to be addressed so there's some things that are that were very general about every project and there were some things very specific about this project um that would be you know in their you know in in their normal report because it's specific to the project so Mike will be here Mike will be out in Ashland obviously doing work for the downtown project so obviously as this project moves forward you know there'll be Eyes On The Ground not just on the paper uh

050looking at the reports but also on the ground on the site so I think that's just something to know moving forward um any other comments from the design Review Committee I would like just something quickly oh go ahead Kevin sorry you can go ahead okay so I would just like to underline that what we're doing is meant to be totally constructive and that it's not in any way suggesting that something has been overlooked but only that something you know we would be sure that something was addressed uh because you know we see ourselves working in concert with the planning board and the other agencies in town so I just wanted to say that and that I really appreciate the constructive nature of this conversation and it's um it's really a pleasure to be involved thank

051you thank you for that um Kevin yeah I was going to say I I you know I wanted to comment on the fact that this letter was going to be longer and we actually pulled back on it a little bit and we we understood that we were kind of outside of our jurisdiction as the design Review Committee in the topics that we were addressing but we saw an overarching issue that we wanted to raise to make sure we were in alignment in terms of the things that were being requested from the applicant and it sounds like we are so I appreciate the consideration of the letter yeah I mean I um on the one hand like I said I think sometimes issues well I think it's normal for issues of design to have very different

052opinions and right answers right from different people so um so that's almost that's a discussion for every project I think the other component of that um is like I said with the with our board you know that we have been kind of taking these opportunities for to educate ourselves that a year ago we we didn't have time to do and so I thought this one was actually kind of unique especially maybe since we don't have we don't have our Kevin anymore to kind of fill us in on some of these some of these large construction site things um so that it was really appropriate because it is a very different site than what we've been dealing with before and the the questions in some way are are different the concerns are different in that way

053so I think it was a very appropriate timing to say you know maybe we need to educate ourselves a little bit on on this process even though it's covered by building code it's covered by regulations it's not something we're going to be in there correcting every you know we're not we're not qualified to do that but to have a general understanding about how things work I think is very appropriate for us for us to do so right any other any other comments well then we will be wrapping this up and we were going to move on to I don't know do we have a continuance first no so um the first public hearing on our agenda is for a 94 1949 Homer and obviously design Review Committee if you're hanging out that would be that

054would be great as we go on to talk about this project Peter can you kind of give us the update it's been a little while since we saw it so um can you go to some update about where we are yeah sure so thank you so much so tonight obviously we're joined by the application team of Terry Morris uh Ron Bork and Mr Rick Salvo and so with that uh the application team has met with the design Review Committee twice since the last time the planning board has met I know they had received the gcg letter uh which was dated June 5th in doing so there was revised plans sent that were distributed to the planning board um and obviously posts and online that's the the set that you see in front of us I

055do want to note that this afternoon I did receive a uh updated plan uh which was not printed just because I received them and also I received a dream drainage package and a response letter from the engineer that response letter will be distributed as soon as possible and posted online please note all elements have been sent out to gcg for review um and so at that point regarding the updates on the site I'm going to hand it over to the application team to step forward and present that the board and so uh Attorney Morris please um uh please give the planing board an update and uh in in Ron and Rick if you want to present please let me know and I will make you co-host it to share your screen uh thank you Peter

056for the opportunity to participate this evening um just as a footnote to the prior discussion about construction activities and the potential for um any change or damage or anything like that relative to this project um there are legitimate questions we recognize that but we also can assure you that of several things I'll work from the blast first and that is there was a lot of question about conditions that should be included in any permit that the planning board votes to to issue we are I personally in in the team that I work with are entirely familiar with the insertion of a condition that deals with construction management plan construction management plans deal with among other things issues surrounding dust and rodent control hours of operation staging of materials delivery hours of operation delivery it also

057includes a contact person whose names are and numbers are given to the police and fire and uh and planning all right so all of these things are anticipated as part of uh the the actual construction of this project um closer to home I could say that the uh we are going below grade uh probably to an extent that it's not typical of um of building a single or two family house but nonetheless um we have every reason to believe that the soil conditions here I haven't seen any test orange myself but I know that this site is typically full of what's called urban urban uh Urban Ash or Urban fill which is largely Ashen and other kinds of mixed Rubble on top of uh ultimately gravel and long um so we do not anticipate uh

058any uh use of uh blasting even though it's heavily regular as the chair has said it's heavily regulated by the state we do not anticipate uh even whole ramming I am familiar with both of those operations in some cases lasting is less is less of a a curse on on surrounding properties because it's first of it the activity is control but be that as it may we don't want to plan to do either one of those we are going to Simply use um very large machines that are typically associated with Excavating the foundations and and structures of this type um there was some concern expressed at some point in the process about how we would handle the construction of uh this excavation that is in closer proximity to uh for example to the back of

059sidewalk the public sidewalk or private properties that is typically handled by and by a number of ways probably the most common is to Simply Drive piles and use sheathing as a way to retain uh the the uh the hole for required for an overdig um so we're familiar with all these and uh and I would hope that having can share this information with the board and the members of the commission that are that are on screen that um we are we are fully committed to uh to a project that is going to be a a benefit to the to the town and to uh in any interest or parties having said that I think that that segues into uh several issues that we believe that have were vetted not that were identified at the first

060meetings of the planning board and then subsequently vetted at the design rebuke uh committee meetings that we have held um I'm careful to say that I am not speaking for the design Review Committee uh the chair is here and certainly can express um uh any views that she made or any information that she feels is uh more complementary or more accurate but I believe the there was a lot of talk initially about the design and whether the design should seek to emulate or somehow um integrate the historic uh uh train station in the most recent communication that we have seen which is a a letter that actually was the team is just just was in receipt of today uh which is was sent by the design Review Committee um we know that they have come

061to the conclusion and made a recommendation that there are not be any sort of uh you know any time any way to try to copy the line or the materials um because the the the the structure was it should stand alone by itself it was built in the late late 19th century by a private architect uh it is a singular example of of a style and of a building that serves a particular purpose and we are we are not really seeking to um copy uh or make any artificial Connections in our project to what's across the street simply I think we are trying to honor the objective of the overlay District the Ashland downtown overlay District by replacing what everyone can see uh the uses that are on the site you know a strip mall

062and and and and we are going trying to basically establish a building and there's been some discussion about this as well I believe one of the speakers at the last um uh committee meeting uh mentioned the fact that they would like to see the building split up into smaller pieces to create more of a village effect that was an issue that came up early early on I'm going to interrupt you a little I'm going to interrupt you a little bit here because yeah that was an issue that we've already previously discussed on the planning board exactly so I'm kind of looking for and we also have obviously the design review committee's notes which I everyone has received and and likely read through so I'm only looking for you know the interest of time like what

063are the big issues we're dealing with like for instance gcgc still has a I mean their report is quite long I believe some of those issues have been addressed but it's usually we receive a letter from the applicant to tell us exactly how those issues have been addressed or or you know to let us know how they're being addressed um I know that there was some big issues with the designing of the with the designing of the underground parking and um and how that how that is going to work I think I believe that was redesigned so if you could kind of tell us like the big what are the big issues where we're looking at here either yes Madam chair thank you for focusing more on the discussion uh or Scott with that one

064um it is true that the I think it was I can't know where there's a gcg report of a peer review that um identified a potential problem with circulation within the underground garage our our architect uh Mr lawn book was on screen on worked with our engineer and that that has been completely resolved we have uh redesigned the parking layout so that we are able to accommodate uh the requirements for a safe and smooth circulation of vehicles within the garage I can I can turn it over to either of my colleagues to give you a further explanation of that if you want to put that issue to breast and then we can move on to several of the other larger issues um Ron would you uh would you care to speak to that I know

065you did a lot of work on that and and then Rick I believe you recited the you put that response in your in your response on the to the G gcg right so I'll I'll start Rick um so we did um put a massage and do some redesign to improve the circulation at the end of the ramp the turning radius and a portion of that was how the vertical circulation went through the building at that end of the building it's very limited in where stairs can go but we were able to relocate them to a in a position where it allowed a little more um ability to turn at the base of the ramp so I think we've resolved that issue significantly more sufficiently so I think there was just some other issues I don't

066know if you were interested in oh the sub subsurface drainage system and and uh was going to be handled on the site I think since we last spoke before the planning board I think uh Mr luxavo our engineer has since produced a drainage report and and dealt with other issues that are related to the Civil aspects of the site Rick we want to comment on some of those or Peter would I have the ability to share my screen well I do excuse me so for the record Rick salvoth engineering alliance with a project civil engineer I think everyone's pretty familiar with the site as you can see in the pre-development condition you know we've got number nine Homer Ave and extending over to number 49 in this direction here we're about 38 39 658 square

067feet of land the majority of it is either occupied by building by pavement by hot pan gravel and then there's some landscape areas around this house small Fringe around this house and kind of a hard panned area back here there's about 1100 square feet of Landscaping on the site in the in the current condition um you know which produces sort of a high rate of storm water runoff if I jump down we did excavate a test pit in this area here um we were able to excavate down about eight and a half nine feet uh before we hit standing water um in the hole we did uh witness some modeling which is sort of the bathtub ring if you will that that the estimated seasonal High groundwater leaves in the soil the staining on the

068soil that was about 66 inches about five and a half um about five and a half feet down what that did for us was it corroborated the subsurface drainage system that we're proposing in this area here that it met the separation of groundwater which is about two feet which is a dep standard we were also able to corroborate the parent soil material which is a loamy sand which was a very favorable for infiltration the entire paved surface of this parking lot will drain to a low point in this area over here which is equipped with a deep coated catch Basin which then drains into a water quality unit which has a total suspended solid removal rate of about 93 percent so it's a very efficient system for about the ten thousand square feet of pavement

069that we're proposing in this case um and then the majority and then this whole roof area also will Connect into that um the system has been sized to completely hold uh the 25-year storm it mitigates the rate of runoff significantly reduces the rate of runoff for the two-year storm the 10-year storm the 25-year Storm and The 100-year Storm um if I switch to just show some color here you can see there's quite a bit more green space in the post-development condition than the pre-development condition we're jumping from about 1100 square feet up to about 8 800 square feet I I think outside of the drainage one of the issues that had come up during the department review was the fire department accessed through the site and if you can see the swath through here that's

070sort of a different color there's a there's a paved paver path through here for walking on either side of that there's a reinforced lawn that will allow ability of a fire engine to be able to pull into the site drive through the site and drive across this and exit back out out onto Alden Street without the need to back up um the comments that we had received from the fire department had suggested um using a single unit truck that had a length of 40 feet the gcg comments suggested a slightly larger vehicle what you see here on the screen is that slightly larger vehicle that can turn off a homer Street pull into the site for verse through the site drive over that reinforced lawn and get back out of the site this is brand

071new information that was sent to gcg and I imagine it will also be sent to um to the fire department as well through through the normal circulation through the planning board process so we haven't heard comments back yet but that was um the way that we had proposed and sort of worked with the fire department at the um at the department head meeting to be able to address the concern of apparatus traveling through the site um beyond that um you know the site I think is the from from this standpoint you know looking down on it is very similar to the original proposal obviously there's been a lot of tweaks to the plan um to accommodate different con different comments of different interests but the the same basic principle of pulling into the site having

072some temporary 15-minute spaces over here that would be available for pickup and drop off Surface parking spaces over here then exit down into the ramp for the for the underground parking um I don't know Ron if you want to share your screen and and show the board I know you articulated how the parking um was redesigned but sometimes picture's worth a thousand words and maybe it's a little easier for the board to be able to see how those changes were made uh sure so if I could share the screen uh yes you have uh Ron you have the power to share the screen you're as co-host okay thank you as as far as a little off topic but I believe um gcg also mentioned um Park accommodating parking for the existing building is that included

073in your numbers no that was not included in the numbers because they we think that that observation was incorrect the building next door has never had the use of any of the parking spaces that are located in a parking area in front of the strip mall they have operated without any parking they are legally non-conforming in that respect and will continue to operate in the same vein so we stand by our original assessment of the parking requirements that we've uh that we have provided for this project thank you okay so uh what you're seeing is the lower level parking and the theories in question were uh location where these turning radius is both leaving the ramp or exiting off of the ramp and and going on to the ramp um so we were able to

074reconfigure the parking maintain the parking count and accommodate the turning radiuses uh as requested as you see now there's all 24 foot wide aisles which is pretty standard 9 by 18 parking spaces which uh about two feet shorter than than the zoning requires I know in Ashland but a 9x18 parking spaces you know it kind of an industry standard out there yeah please um when you say 9 by 18 are you talking about all the parking spaces including the ones on on the ground there's no parking space smaller than that or there is no the parking spaces parking spaces inside the building in the garage I believe are all nine by ten is that correct Ron that's correct oh when you get outside um all the parking spaces all the standard spaces uh um nine

075by Twenty and it comes with the Ashland standard there's one space um that's nine by eighteen and that's in in an effort to save a pretty large elm tree that's out there so we did shorten that one parking space up so we could save that um tree and then obviously the Ada spaces is an 8 by 20 space with an 8 by 20 aisle to create a van accessible space in accordance with um with the architectural access board in Ada I think it's important just while we're talking about parking that that we will need to at least discuss this existing building you know as we look at adding a building of this size and to downtown the fact that it it does have another building on it that may not have had parking before but

076that's still an issue and still a potential problem to be resolved when a building is being proposed on the same lot so I don't want that to be just brushed under the rug as if it when it requires a waiver well Madam chair that you'll see in this site plan the site plan does not include that building and all of the measurements that we've taken all of the standards that we've taken with respect to computational floor area ratio and setbacks all of those things are using this configuration this piece of land right so that building is not a part of the site that's correct there's two different pieces of property well there are three Deeds there are three Deeds to this this property consists of at least three three separate pieces I'll I'll have to

077I haven't looked at the deeds in a while I don't have them not in my office I'm actually out on vacation but I will have that information for you and I'll tell you how the properties are separately dated I guess we just we don't need to dwell on it now but we would like uh we should have a memo or something about that existing building if it's a part that's fine I'll be happy to prepare thank you um I think the other thing for me which I started to mention um in talking about the discussion with um Mike Carter from gcg um is that pull the poll the utility poll that's kind of in the area of the exist of the proposed driveway and the hold down which is on the side of downtown obviously

078to keep tension on that poll and if those are located relocated and there's also a poll further along in the property that seems to have wires that go through the property to reach I think an apartment building in the back and we're wondering what if those have been looked at and what that entails because obviously they wouldn't be going through the building rickshawal can address the existing pole yeah can you give up this year for a minute Ron so we did locate all of the utility poles uh actually the the surveyor had had located mall for some reason they didn't show up in the plan when it was originally submitted this is the pull this is the newest poll that was installed that I think is the one that you are referring to um there's

079a stone bound right here um this pole is about six feet outside of that stone bound it's outside the limits of our driveway all the poles are right on the curb line on the sidewalk is a minimum of five feet sometimes it's sometimes it's a little bit bigger than five feet in the way that the roadway is configured with the property line um so you know the question of access behind the poll there's always quite a bit more space than the minimum 36 inch class base required by Ada in most cases it's it's upwards of four feet but there's plenty of room to keep this pole here it can still be anchored back in this landscape area back here without any issue the poll that you're that you were referring to um is right in

080this area back here um obviously we'll be working with the power company to see how they want to handle that poll um Perhaps Perhaps um that power gets relocated on the ground and this pole slides back in this area and gets a riser put on it and it and it stays servicing that apartment building we'll have to work that out with the power company so you're saying that that's the that's the poll that the the poll on Homer Street attaches to is that right yeah if I if I if I shoot let me let me show you on the existing conditions plan it's a little easier to see yeah just to jump in I think the pull is from Homer but it feeds a a parcel that's fronted on Maine that's right it comes from

081Homer this poll here services this building 35 Homer and it's also a line that goes back to this poll and then this poll from their services one of these sites on Main here doesn't seem like that Riser pole was you know the the one we the one with the whole bat the hold back the tie back the tie back it seems um it doesn't seem like it was that close to that brick building but maybe it was that's that's the brand new poll that was the newest poll that was installed yes that I was referring to um and when we were on site we noticed obviously we noticed that the the line that was obviously feeding the building off of Maine yeah this one comes off of this pole here behind the dumpster correct which

082is interesting because why didn't they come off a main but that's for that's that that question is uh needs to be answered by other folks yeah I don't I don't know that there I mean I guess when Terry does is is uh Research into the title I'm not sure that there was even an easement for it so I guess lots of but that'll be I think that's going to be pretty easily figured out with the power company we have room to accommodate it if we needed to or perhaps they could just come off of Main Street okay run were there any other issues that you wanted to comment before Ryan comments uh Madam chair members of members of the board we spent a lot of time with the uh uh the design Review Committee discussing

083the treatment of the site between the back of sidewalk which would Rick leave that there I guess that's something the back of sidewalk in the front of the building one of the things they asked Ron to do was to create a greater recess you see how there are four major projections on the face of the building projecting out from the main part of the building to home or out they uh asked him to create a great and enlarge the recess areas so that there was the possibility of creating more active uh space uh in front of the buildings there was a lot of talk we had originally proposed a an extensive landscape plan for that here for that area in front of the building um they thought that there was far too much uh landscaping

084and they would rather see some some of it eliminated so that it provided for the opportunity to create some uh Gathering space or some more functional space in front of the buildings and create essentially small plazas or Terraces and which we have which we have done I don't know which one of these uh uh Rick or Ron which one of these would show best uh that line would it be one of yours yeah Rick Rick if you want on Cheryl uh so while they're bringing that up so when I say that treating the area both the site the area of the site between the back side walking the front of the buildings and also the look of the buildings the treatment of the buildings uh Ron has spent a lot of time in between meetings

085um responding to a series of questions uh requests for information that the the committee had made and actually at the last meeting produced a number of options uh for the for the treatment uh different treatments uh they had they included shingle collaborate some brick um and those are all vetted I think it's probably worthwhile for us to share that portion of the presentation with you so as a way of uh answering some of the questions addressing the issues that we talked about so I think this is a good one right Ron oh yeah let me let me get to the one that doesn't have the existing buildings on it okay the one that you had showed the different the different texture yeah Ryan perhaps you could go into it um yes uh sure so as

086Terry mentioned um we did create uh we did relocate the doors at the suggestion of the design Review Committee uh so that they were all within a recess section of the building so it created a there's sort of sense of balance and you knew where the front door was um and and along with that we did enlarge the plazas uh we did uh landscape you know around it uh in this instance I believe the discussion LED more towards doing a planter box than to do that field Landscaping but in in general concept all the recesses have the entry doors in to the commercial space uh which is outlined here but it's yet defined depending on on how the space is actually leased out but there are multiple entrances and um and then uh as Terry

087mentioned Terraces that would allow for for example Cafe seating if there was a deli in this in this space for example we did we did actually in one in our presentation but Ron with some uh perspectives and aerial views uh show uh some projected seating uh tables and chairs in one of those uh uh Plaza areas um as Ron said it's difficult we it's difficult at this point to basically Define those spaces uh and say well we're going to put benches here we're going to use shares there on this it really does depend on the tendencies that occupy the building and the uses to which those areas would be put they're not they're not all going to serve the same purpose we think that ultimately since we're working towards conditions for approval of the site

088plan that we would have a condition that would make the approval of the final landscape Arrangement here subject to the approval of of the uh of the time the planning department uh at the stage when before a building permit is issued yeah I mean we could go we could go we could go round and round and round about which plants to plant where and this and that and I don't think that it's the job that you that you the planning board wants to get into the weeds as to the planting and all the other things yep I'm not gonna I mean I'm not gonna speak for the whole planning board but um on on these issues at the design Review Committee has been addressing it seems like they've looked carefully at at these kind of

089the front entrances this kind of thing I think for me um the big pieces that still remain to be seen is just working through that gcg list because I think when I read through the list there are a lot of things that are a little tight you know and that have kind of um that that needed answers and so I think for me that's the kind of the the four focus on exact plantings in in front of something or you know I I need that list of gcg to be gone through thoroughly and with every item in response to every item in for gcg to agree that that was a good solution and and so that's a little bit back and forth yet like to me that's you know um that's the foundation you know

090that we that we need to do so yeah and I will say just today uh you know Rick's elbows on the call but Rick sent over a detailed response letter okay which I think it's not in the packet tonight it was received today uh this is going to be put up online it'll be sent out to everybody tomorrow and that has already gone off to gcg okay and so just to reiterate that is where the response is from June fifth letter I think it would be useful Rick do you have that letter you could bring up on the screen yeah we're not going to go through it tonight though because the planning board hasn't even had a chance to look at it Kate did you have I think I think what I'll say about him

091chairs is we we did provide a written response to every single comment um we addressed every single comment um and I think um you know gcg were probably just got it today are they going to get it tomorrow morning um so by uh next meeting I hope would be that we would have have worked out every issue with gcg so then maybe we can have a more fruitful discussion with the board but I just wanted to give the board kind of a heads up on some of the bigger things that we had addressed or or what our what our plan was to address them um and then once gcg gives its blessing um I think we'll be in a better position to further the discussion with the board with the process because if I recall

092this is actually on a ticking timeline um and it looks like they were doing a lot of work but that gcg letter was June 5th we're now into August just receiving the response so I want to make sure we're cognizant of like deadlines and timelines and don't put the planning board in a bad position over something that was maybe got lower on the list with the applicant to respond to because that's that's something that we I very much rely on like we Peter says over and over they've been working the town for a long time we I expect when it's all done there's probably going to be open issues still that might be in the planning boards court or it might be another round so I wanna obviously get that everyone agrees but I want

093to be cognizant of the timeline and make sure we have that discussion so for an administrative standpoint I can answer that question and Attorney Morris and I spoke about this today and so the last extension they gave us an extension so for the site plan review that expires on April excuse me August 31st and so I did put that on the radar of uh Attorney Morris and I did say remote you know we need to talk about this and you know extend that out to I would say September 30th September 31st at the earliest uh to get the gcg report going and so um I don't know you know Attorney Morris if you want to speak to that but that is an administrative item that was that was discussed uh this afternoon I do Mr

094Magic because as you know every time we've discussed this we've always agreed to every extension uh that was requested we've never sought to put the planning board under the gun for uh under any timeline a sole concern however is that we not we got caught up in a circular uh you know a carousel okay where between the planning board and the design Review Committee where a lot of these issues have been rehashed we have we believe we've answered a lot of the things relative to design review gcg goes beyond simple design review and I understand those are within the purview of the planting Point our goal Madam chair members is to basically we believe we've got sufficient feedback from the design Review Committee as to as to the issues that are important to them and

095that they think would be important to you and the public and we have set forth uh resolutions or address those concerns um so we are hopeful that at some point when we get put all this together not only the the global gcg issues but also the things that are site-specific that we can move this uh forward um without you know in I guess in more economical use of beatings we thought that this meeting would be useful to give you a status update of where we were uh and what we've uh what we've presented I had proposed to talk about the facades the facades are clearly um of interest to everyone and I think that I would like appreciative John Ron could have the screen for maybe five or ten minutes at most to basically show

096you what work has been done on that so we can get some feedback from from you members if if that's possible yeah that's fine thank you Jerry uh so um one of the the comments from the designer view committee was to show some options and materiality uh to the elevations so what I've done is I've created four types that have a variety of material changes and um and sort of organization um this this does not necessarily have to be replicated all across the building we could create interest by maybe bookending with one type and then having the center with a different type but this was really that exploration so nonetheless you can see there's some feel colors and and window frame calls and things like that and it was a request that I update the

097model each Mo the model with each one of these options which is is something that I'm working on um so this is our you know our key we call it type one uh type 2 introduces a shingle style along with the collaborate type 3 has a um more of a contemporary Farmhouse vertical bat board and Baton along with collaborate uh type four had a little more modern inset of metal panel along with the traditional collaborate in all instances you know there's there's an organization there's an organizing element where the main um Gable ends will will have several materials they won't be overloaded with materials and then there'll be a um a different palette on the insets in some instances so that way we could create that that interest but also change color change material and

098try to modulate it so that you know some of the comments were the size of the building and we try to establish a module which which chased it down to a traditional pedestrian scale of a two and a half story home um or traditional storefront from you know the turn of the century um so that's that's the result of Ron I think it's important to note that this particular uh thing was was not was not something that was favored by the committee nor is it favored by us oh right so yeah so the um the ones that I've I will be pursuing is is type 1 type 2 and um the original concept on the building comments from the planning board on the facades and materials oh thank you I'm looking for comments from the

099planning board oh okay yeah I I think without more detail is stuff to tell but I I like the idea that um that they are exploring further these options it looks like the design Review Committee offer a really great you know Insight uh I think we should uh I I like the idea I mean personally it's very personal because it's aesthetic um I like that some of the options are exploring are more uh like a simplified level of detail uh in my view I think as the as these things get explored it would be important to give a person to to to the the base what what The Pedestrian scale feels and how those materials be a little heavier and a little more consistent and maybe the interest goes everywhere else but I think you

100should wait until these options are explored yeah um deeper did you what are we on than that we're looking at feels like it's a large Mass so it's really critical to apply materials to make sure we break that stretch um it was there I'm sure I'm sorry I could I couldn't hear yeah we can't hear um I would just caution that when you're playing with materials right now the view that is there on this page feels like it's a large mass so I think you really have to use your materials very strategically to make sure that it doesn't feel like a um unified east to west box versus kind of those nice intricate details that you have in these elevations it really needs to come out and I think that challenge is there definitely when

101you're playing with these different palettes I agree yeah and that's where I was looking at the possibility of bookend in the building with a similar palette and then in the in the center phase uh they could become uh something else yeah I mean for me I think I think the question at this time is less about exact color and material but how is the entire building broken up or is it left and right or is it bookended is or is every like how how do you how do you start to distribute those things across across the building to tell a different story about about how this was built you know or um its different components and um so I think like I said I think that might be more important than the exact color of

102materials sure so so I think at the next point we really need to see color on the massing to understand how we're supposed to read this thing are we supposed to read it as one big boat that kind of landed there or is you know how are those different parts expressed and so that we can read it as different houses that might have come together over time or you know what's the narrative there that you're going to be using the color and materials to tell I think the bagel table building is always a good example of that because it looks like two buildings that kind of just happen to be built next to each other over time and of course it wasn't it was built all at the same time right but they looked carefully

103at that as a way to break down the mass I I agree with you Trisha and I think that maybe having these part elevations to explore kind of variations of um of relationships of different materials are are helpful but but uh where you and deep are going uh I think it's also important that once that is explored a little bit more we need to see the whole thing in context because uh sometimes there is a repetition of storefronts which is a consistent use and you want some consistency and and some differentiation so it's a little tricky I'd like to make sure that when we see these Explorations we see a part plan blown up which is great and then um the whole project on a rendering well that's our intent okay Anna so my addition

104to this would be that I thought the design Review Committee report number two was very helpful there is a lot of data there and a lot of input in red to the applicant and so I do believe that we have to come up with a way to efficiently allow the applicant we should address the applicant's concern of a back and forth and I do think we as a board need to reach some consensus that we agree with the red and that we want these things to be explored by design review so that we're efficient and you know I personally liked all the red suggestions I had a few specific elements that I really as a planning board members personally care about and so I'd like to highlight some of those that are important to me

105and maybe add a few elements to the applicant's thinking is that okay to do right now or do you want to go through them first no I don't think I mean given that we just actually got this a few days ago today no but if they're things that you want to highlight I think you should yeah so the things that I really liked I mean I liked first of all I agreed with all elements in the red that the red was what uh were action items As I understood them as to what the design Review Committee wanted the applicant to look to and I personally although I may not have agreed with everything I felt like it was correct to explore it so that we could later make a good decision so I'm not committed

106necessarily to the recommendations implied in every situation but I'm open to having design review further get the detail and explore um so my kind of suggestion would be that the applicant would respond to everything in the red and then if the Apple can disagreed with design review and felt that the planning board should have an alternative perspective that we would be presented with okay design review wanted a we the applicant think you should also think about B and C for this reason so that we could get some feedback from the applicant but also understand the design of your perspective as far as highlights I liked the mural concept um the design review had suggested putting a mural on one wall of the commercial building 15 Homer and I'd like to see what that might look

107like I guess in a way to like what size what what are we talking about the pocket Park Points were really jumped out to me I'd like to understand better the location of the pocket park how it relates to the site how it relates to the rest of Ashland you know accessibility to the public um the theme of the location versus the community I really appreciate the detail that we're all thinking about relative to this building but I keep thinking this building belongs in downtown how do we use this building how do we get to it is it just a place to live that people drive from or is it part of a community where you live there you go to the farmers market you bike to Stone Park your kids go to school nearby

108and they want to go to the library how does this building relate to all of that what is the human kind of traffic through it and what elements can we add that are that we need so some of the things that we're not in design review that I'd like to think about is a bus stop um some sort of public bus stop or or bus shelter some type of e-bike or scooter charge station so that people who live there have a way to move around in ways other than cars and that there can be a positive kind of energy if you will of people wanting to use downtown without cars as much as possible the folks who live in this building what will make their lives unique is their accessibility to downtown they really don't

109need cars to do all these wonderful things they can go to Starbucks they can commute to the MBTA station they can their kids can go to school really without a car so I really want to explore that and that was not there and then finally well I didn't see it there and then the solar which designer of you mentioned I'd like to hear more about the possibility of solar energy in this site we did a we addressed a number of those in the design review process with respect to solar we agreed that we could put solar on all the self-facing roofs fortunately those face they do not face the street because we did not think it was going to be aesthetically consistent with the objectives of the old delay District to have solar panels on

110the front-facing roofs um so that was how we dressed that out we also addressed the issue of sustainability substantially this is going to be and I said it before and I've said it at least again before the design of your committee this is going to be a fossil free building we're going to do everything electrically we're going to do it by heat pumps we have you can see the roof we have used those small portions of the roof that were created flat they can continue they will contain the heat pumps you can see them on the on the on what's uh shown on this Shadow study drawing um we have repeatedly said that we were going to provide um EV uh ready every parking space well inside in the garage and outside are going to

111be easy ready the the commit the design Review Committee asked about well how many of them are going to have Chargers well I can only say to you that in the um other jurisdictions where I have practiced um this kind of Permitting and that issue has arisen the typical standard is 10 of the um 10 of the spaces are outfitted with charging stations in that case I can safely say after having discussed this with the owner that we can commit to 10 of the 60 spaces we'll have charges any other charges uh in within the garage itself of course would have to wait until we see what the demand is from the residents who are living there in response to the question about bicycle parking we have handled that one of two ways uh Ron

112had his first floor plan that shows actually an area for bicycle storage and parking off of the lobby Lauren could you blow that up if you're in bicycle storage space off of the off the residential Lobby in addition to that in the parking garage We There is a provision for mounting wall mounting um biker racks at the head of each and every parking space where that would be so desired so parking providing alternative ways of transportation aside from the automobile that will not that will not be a serious problem here at this site and just to clarify I think that's great for the residents absolutely I think what I was commenting on is as you know there's been some talk of I mean I don't want to open up a can of worms but there

113was some talk previous meetings on bike path in the area which is theoretical at this point but I was imagining more of how this space relates to the entire community so it's not just the residence which is great you're giving the residents those those sustainable elements but also the community that's nearby because this is this building is going to bring people into the community and make them part of a greater community and so I I was not just envisioning you know obviously if somebody is coming by from I don't know from the Middle School to the Starbucks and there there's a kid who goes to the library who doesn't live in this building they're not going to come into the building to charge their bike right they don't they don't live there and I'm envisioning

114this being a space that has has to have some connection to the rest of the community not just for the residents I think that's I think you're absolutely right and I think that speaks to how those spaces which are shown on the screen now that we've created those plazas how they're utilized are they are they going to would they be would there be bike racks there as opposed to seating or in addition to seating you see our those are the kinds of issues and I think that has the answer to the puzzle of how to connect this to the train station I respect the idea that we can't replicate this beautiful unique historic design of the train station but there's a theme Here of Transportation there's a theme Here of public space and use that

115100 years ago was one and now we have a little differently now we have to Envision the future of Ashland right and so there can be a theme here if you do think about that element of public transport and this building having some connection to that yeah I think for I think we um you know I think we kind of need to move on I think the two things um that are you know both things are kind of in process right now I mean we got the design review Commandments I think two days ago and so um yesterday yeah and with the new drawings and stuff I haven't had time to go through them thoroughly and understand each of them thoroughly especially with the other letter from the design Review Committee at the end then

116obviously the gcg stuff is still in flux so I think this is all the further that we're going to get tonight now I don't know if this is going I assume this was done at design Review Committee um well given that it's in front of us right um so I don't know what the understanding is there on the other hand I'm a little surprised that some of the things haven't been more resolved so and so I I am supporting Anna's position as well supporting my colleagues in the design review I I I did not scrub everyone but I did go to the red because you know and they seem reasonable to be answered right and I'm looking at it similar to gcg if they answer and we we kind of say that's reasonable and we're

117good with it or no the answering to are the answering to us or the answering to design review for analysis well that's a process for us to decide but I think they should be answered by the applicant let's start there and I I think that's to their concern how do you see it because uh what Trisha said makes sense so so the Santa Review Committee highlighted the only one area that that seemed like they were that they had an expectation of of another review was the uh the request of renderings yeah depicting this and that it's kind of big that that that that implies that they want to see it again but if we are seeing it I was seeing it initially more like you just described it these answers these questions can be answered

118and we can we have the judgment to understand if they were answered properly but the renderings part keeps the thing in flow so I think our decision needs to be made or uh where is the status of the Santa review Community process uh or if it's going to basically uh be merged into a response then maybe we can review and the members of the design Review Committee could join us at that review to make sure that everybody sees it and in context and we don't have to wait for another cycle I mean I would say possibly a joint meeting about that because the big things are actually open that we said they're better at they have more time but I I understand the Project's been in front of us a long time the applicant wants

119to keep moving in it and if we can come to that I you know I'm okay with that I think we do have to check with our colleagues on the design review if that's satisfactory as well but yeah no I agree I think I think every item on the design review list and assuming that the applicant has received this list too in the same way that every item on the gcg list has to be answered in a way that we can read it and see that it's been answered and then it goes back you know in the same way the design Review Committee list has to be the same like we need answers the question was asked it needs an answer um so and and the answer might be no we've decided to go in

120this other direction and would rather ask the planning board that might be your answer but it has to have an answer right so that um and I agree that it might be the most efficient way to do it might be to have a to have the design Review Committee have let's all talk about at the same time so there we all of us are on one page we're not going back and forth we don't need to send it back and then back again in the interest of just efficiency I'm all for getting together with design review I think that there are 20 or 23 red items it's a lot and so once you double the size of this group having a meeting where we discuss 23 items is going to be extremely time consuming um

121the items that are more specific than others no I understand but it's but we all still might have different views about that you might have a specific view but I may have different views and so you may say half of them are not important but the other half will be mine so we could have it quite busy dealing with that in addition design review did a really nice job answering uh eight of our points that we brought to their attention specifically and so we as a planning board need to we need to come to consensus on those eight points that we already asked them to address so I'm just a little concerned as to the efficiency of time I understand the applicant's concerned hey why do I need to go to both groups and is

122this going to be inefficient but if we right now this planning board likes the red isn't it more efficient to give this to design review to address the 23 items and then we can have a more succinct organized joint meeting where we can narrow in on hopefully less than 23 red items but but that is fair but it also depends how about all the design options that the sun review wants to see are we not interested in us seeing those options as well I I think this would how would I would miss that opportunity you're saying that if we have them jointly at the beginning we're more likely no I'm saying that the same review Community requested options to be to be rendered which the architect is going to work on and uh if if

123we don't want to see it but they're going to present it to the center Review Committee we're going to miss the opportunity to see those I mean I would assume assume I guess I was but it's part of the red that you said that it would be I was envisioning that if they did read a saying however we the applicant think the planning board may like option b I think as long as the applicant knows that we're not saying hey we agree with everything and you're kind of tied to whatever design review says we're saying to the applicant we respect the design review opinion we want you to go back to them and give them what they're asking for but we also want you to know that we may have a different View and so

124we're open to Alternatives in your response and give us your your the next kind of variation of it I'm just suggesting and I'm concerned with how much red there is let me move the design Review Committee can weigh in here because I'm not sure always that the reds are decisions I mean no decisions but action items I'm just concerned items that we would then have to assess if we're satisfied so if design review says they're satisfied in a in a response I'm assuming the text becomes black because black means updates the previous item it's just going to narrow Us in on the unresolved items so I could go either way I'm happy to make this one big party but I just think that that could be quite inefficient Kathy do you want to weigh in

125yes please thank you so um we definitely are not finished um and I know that we've asked for a lot of things and I know that the reason you got the letter as lazy did is because it got very specifically cross-checked against everything that we said and all of the red items are action items and um as I'm sitting here listening to this right now I'm pretty sure we've left a couple of things off I think the very biggest thing that we are most concerned about is the scale representation of one of the first pages of this presentation where they show the photo montage and they show the um building I think you have to go farther through it it's not the first page you have to go farther down that one there and um

126there's one with the telephone poles in front so we are actually having trouble with the Landscaping in part because we don't know what the final height of those poles and the wires are we don't exactly know where they are and we don't know where those poles exactly set with the height of that building so we don't actually know what kind what size trees can fit out there for starters and if we can fit trees out there which is one of our problems it was pointed out by a member of the public and I think the board is unanimous on agreeing the our committee excuse me is unanimous on agreeing that the that the actual rendering with a photo montage which is not this one that we're looking at right now shows the building bars are

127down sunken down in the ground and not as high similar to the first floor of the three units where the two hair places and the other um the pizza place are and so we're concerned about that because it didn't it looks like either these poles are the top of the building or they're not quite right and and we're having an issue with what we're looking at so we've asked that for that to be fixed and it may have been fixed because what I'm looking at right now looks like it's been fixed can you move that over to the right please that looks better I think than what we saw originally presented to us which puts all of those polls at that height at the top of the peak of the building so we're we're actually

128asking about that and we want to know that that's correct that that's actually represented the way it's going to be or are those polls going to shrink when the new polls go in because I don't know I have no idea so Kathy what are you recommending as far as the point of like how we should do this because so I think there's two things I think that and I I it's taken us four hours on two separate nights now to get through just stuff we're sending back to you a meeting with the applicant took almost that long so I can't agree more that this is all taking a long time but it's also a process where it has to be thoughtful I actually think that our two board and committee you need to put our

129heads together and figure out how to make this a more streamlined process in that respect because we are going to have differences of opinion just among ourselves as to what we think these projects should look like but I definitely think I don't want to be in a position where I'm listening to an applicant say what they are saying tonight um about the back and forth I think we need to we need to figure this out so that isn't that doesn't happen again so I know that for sure so I don't think we've had any back and forth yet like that I've seen because the only thing that that has happened is we had a meeting planning board we came up with eight items you guys gave us responses and then you're giving us your for

130your second report so I don't think we're yet at a point of great concern about a loop all over the place I think we just need to get organized we've got 24 25 items in red action items if we the planning board have some consensus that we like these we just need to figure out do we want to do this just based on what what what Kathy just said and listening to Anna I mean I I quickly go through the the red items and there's kind of two categories there's a category there's a lot of them relative to things that would be resolved with the renderings which we just heard looks like they have been resolved maybe they have but this is not all I wouldn't categorize all red items as the same there are

131some that could be just simple answers could we just parse them out and say provide the answers that are specific to in in a letter something that we can hear from Kathy and her group and then the ones that are more design oriented could be treated differently yeah I agree because I think there are some items in red you know um all doors will be accessible without a step provide a grading plan to confirm I I'm not sure that's needed from design Review Committee you know I think so it's would I propose could I propose something in the spirit of time would the planning board trust Marcelo and Trisha to do that to go through the list and come up with what you believe we can handle on our own as a planning board versus

132items that would make sense to pass on to to design review I personally would be comfortable with that I don't think we need to do it tonight I think if we as a planning board degree in a general consensus that these red things are important to us I think we can appoint you to kind of figure that out and and split it apart for us efficiently if they're if we can agree to that I think it's far more efficient so it'd be picking out the things that we think should be focused on at the design review committee meeting going back to the design Review Committee versus the things that we will look at in planning boy that's that is what I'm suggesting I mean we could certainly do that I mean my example was that

133there's uh there's a common one of the red comments that says that um it appears that one of the setbacks was not correct and the setback should be pushed to comply with zoning that's a given I think that the the things like that are things that are we say Okay noted it has to comply that that's not a discussion and things the other things I mean I'll be happy it will really it will take 10 minutes I'm just suggesting that that is an efficient way to do it it's a thought unless we want to do it right now which I don't think I have the bandwidth to do it right now we just got this report are you okay with that Kate we can't hear uh I think your mic is off Deepa Deepa was

134saying that a lot of these items are interconnected and I reiterated that uh so I believe what our what our proposed plan is that Marcelo and I will look at this list which we'd like I said we just got a few days ago parse out the things that we think are still in the camp or that we should still that should still be in the camp of the design Review Committee things that do not need to be addressed in design review Community Committee separate those two and then have some of these issues these remaining issues be resolved and design Review Committee because they're not really meant to be designed to be they're not really meant to be resolved here in the planning board so um so but that list then will then be shorter and

135more focused and we would hope then that in going through that list that will be one more meeting and and then it would be back in front of planning board so I have just one question about that because it seemed like people in this group wanted to look at those four or five examples are you saying go back to the design review with that and ask them to put their recommendation and then just move on and I think if we're not doing a joint meeting I think we we should give them the opportunity not just pull that back out of the whole process I'm happy for them to provide a recommendation yeah okay congratulations should we do we need the applicant's input on this or do we just kind of have jurisdiction to ask for

136another design review analysis I I I'm comfortable with what I heard tonight that the the there was this one option that was discarded in concert with the sun review and he's exploring a b and c or whatever um I'm fine making sure that that exploration gets further I'm fine with that too the applicant's permission to go back to design reviewer that's our that is our it makes sense to talk to the applicant to make sure that you know obviously they do have some renderings they need to put together and it's a meeting but I think obviously the applicant has stated obviously this the term Carousel which I think fits the summertime theme here uh they don't want to go around and around on a carousel yeah and I think the design Review Committee needs to

137be very efficient with its time and what they focus on so so does Kathy your hand is up yes so Madam chair I think we are as efficient as we can be what I'm actually concerned about is we've been asking for things some of them going on two two rounds now well then then we understand is like as they have now come before the planning board and we are asking them to go back to the design Review Committee they can see that we are very serious about providing these things but it will be the list that Marcelo and I look at as the things that should be provided so it will it will be a shorter list than than what you haven't read I think that in the future um we're not going to have

138a second meeting or however many meetings we've had with an applicant if they can't get us all the stuff that we've asked for the first time around I don't see any reasonable way to do this right now I think we have to come up with it in the town and I think Unfortunately they get to be one of the developers that has to deal with some of this um as we go through the process but I think it's important I think this is a big project in the town and I think the committee is is concerned um I think the planning board has emphasized in in past meetings that we rely on the design Review Committee and we trust their input and that they should consider that very important so I just want to be

139clear I I would be supportive of design review being part of our next meeting so that we can get like we're gonna the way I understand this is Marcelo and Trisha would come up with a shorter list of action items as to things that we believe okay we really do need design review expertise more that list would would shorten the action items for the design review applicant would go back to design review we would get one more report report number three and then we would have a meeting we the planning board and we would invite design review to come I don't have a problem with that and I think that's okay to do because then we're at a much more narrow list I think that's where we're at exactly what we're talking about I don't

140think that would remove okay I don't think that would remove um Kathy the design reviews ability to tell us these things that remain a concern okay can we uh so can we have some input in from the applicant on that um Terry I'll start so um just for our full transparency I haven't changed this rendering this is this is the rendering I presented and the comments that were made I think were a little unfair because this is a photo montage of six or seven photographs and so they all have different Vanishing points so when you put the photo montage together you know I selected this as my sort of reference point this building is set back uh probably about 12 15 feet yeah and it's about the same massing as what we have yeah I

141understand I think those of us we understand that these things cannot be done accurately it's a perspective it doesn't work like that we get it right so but what I'm saying I don't want to we don't we don't have time we don't have the capacity to go through this right now and remember that that list of what is going to be asked for is going to be edited by the planning board so your list is shorter and we will make sure we take if you have any um in if you have any feedback on this list of what you were being asked to do that you think is impossible very time consuming we just don't have that information perhaps you can give us some feedback in the next day or two about that list and

142and why it hasn't been provided maybe there's a reason you haven't provided it and it that it just the information doesn't exist or we know whatever it is so that we can we can take that into consideration is that fair that's fair okay Madam cheers would I would like the endowments to respectfully and I underscore that word respectfully ask the chair of the designer committee who has said that she has we made repeated requests for information that we have not provided give me one example of that so we know no we're not no we're not going to argue about that here I we're not going to argue about that here I have already said that that we will that the applicant can give us a list of hey we couldn't provide this because or we

143did provide this and and they say we haven't whatever the thing is Marcelo and I are going to edit that list it's going to go back to design Review Committee to talk about the things on the list and then it'll come back to planning board to resolve all other Matters by that time maybe we will have received all the information also related to gcg and we'll take a big step forward here but we're not going to go back and forth and argue about this tonight all right so what do we need Peter to make this happen because I'm about to I could I just had one brief thing I'm so I just feel when I just want to reiterate that it I I very much appreciate and respect all of the hard work of design

144review there's no way that the planning board can have that kind of detailed time to every single detail of design and so I want to underline that but I I absolutely want to reiterate agreement with Trisha's point that there's no need for the applicant to convince a design review or any member of design review of one element I think we the planning board are the ones that need to be um convinced if you will and we're not going to get there unless we move this forward that I just wanted to reiterate where I I think we're getting confused as to what our jurisdiction is versus design review yeah it's a good comment all right Peter so with that said oh so with that said and I this is to Terry the applicant uh Terry Morris

145uh the next meeting for the planning board is on August 28th and also at this point I think it makes sense to continue it um I hopefully they'll be um my question is is obviously in the summer do your does your application team think it's appropriate to meet again on the 20 the 24th or would you like to continue this to the second meet the first meeting of September which will be September 14th and then the second note is I think it makes sense uh verbally but then we can follow up by email is to continue the um the date of final decision to September 30th uh Peter I I can't really answer that question on a at this time without conferring with my uh my two Consultants you know the uh Ron and Rick

146most of the burden of what we're talking about falls on them and I'm not going to put them on a spot saying right now whether they can commit to one or the other but I certainly have an answer for you tomorrow okay why don't we do this for the point and let's just take this with a grain of salt let's for the planning boards perspective continue this to August 24th with the understanding that the applicant will be in contact with the two consultants and confirm that date and then obviously if it needs it to request it a continuance this this matter will be appear again at the first meeting in September uh and then but I think it makes sense for that to just having a verbal agreement that the the the date of final

147decision will be extended to September 30th um how many home meetings of many of the planning board meetings are there well right now there is one more in August which will be August 24th and there will be two in September all right so agreed I make a motion for 9 to 49 Homer that we continue the public hearing until August 24th based on having a verbal Grant follow-up with a written agreement that the continuance of the process until September 30th okay I have a Point Break plan no okay if you need to take a break go come out we're we're you know yeah um okay so we have a couple next to our agenda we have a couple um well one is a withdrawal 12 to 6 12 to 16 Union Street that's the definitive

148subdivision plan next to the public safety building I think everyone got that letter they have are asking to withdraw the application without prejudice simple summary Peter simple summary is the applicant back in November put in a pulmonary subdivision and their whole goal was to free zoning upon the denial of the town of Ashland's housing moratorium and without an appeal of the town the applicant has decided to withdraw the application because at this point there is no need for a zoning freeze on that property in defense of a building moratorium and so with that said the applicant did not want to go through the Hoops of a definitive subdivision with their review process of gcg and the planning board and so therefore the applicant has made this request so Peter quick question so gcg was already

149reviewing another round off of this project what what happens with that so the app so gcg we had a we had a a peer review fund there was one round uh they never submitted additional material and so therefore it just stops and so gcg did a review they were actually they were paid invoiced all set they will not receive that money back the applicant as a consultant peer review account um but the application it just kind of ceases it would draw without prejudice and um everything and and they lose their standing their November standing um with this withdrawal and so it all comes down to what they were trying to re with trying to they were trying to secure a zoning freeze they lose all standing and um and and that preliminary subdivision gets wiped

150out canceled out Kate were you about to say something I make a motion that we um allow the withdrawal without prejudice for 12 to 16 Union Street definitive sub subdivision plan a second roll call though Catherine Jersey guy Trisha Kendall all right so next on the agenda is 10 to 60 Main Street Peter is there someone here from 10 to 60 Main Street who we've so sit here the entire time at this point we're looking at the the the waiting the the participants no okay I did go back and forth with the owner um Rich Gordon I went back with the attorney Joe antonellis and I also know that um the architect um excuse me uh Scott Richardson uh confirmed attendance however do our difficult technical difficulties I'm not too sure what happened I've been

151looking in the waiting room and I haven't seen him pop up uh but with that said um obviously the application is still trying to put things together um from uh from uh architectural standpoint from a site standpoint and so um what I can bring forth to the planning board is the requested continuance which was via that I believe a um email letter a letter received by email which was dated I believe um July 28th uh if I stand corrected yes I just um one note on that I had asked Peter when they asked for a continuance that we should have someone here to explain to us why we're having these long long continuances and then not really saying much work and so that's still a question that I have I guess I'm willing to continue

152it one more time but we're gonna expect something at the end of this you know either that there's been a change of project that it's being withdrawn that if there's a significant step forward because this isn't this is no longer going to be the pattern to be wasting the planning board's time with these continually long continuances it doesn't make sense if the plan isn't if the project doesn't put together they should withdraw it and get their act together is my it's my bottom line I guess it's getting a little crazy I am happy to put that in email and and I will see whoever had feedback on the board that's just my personal I felt like we made massive progress and then the continuances are taking away that energy so my concern is that we

153were in a very negative place for a little while there it felt very tenuous in fact I think we were pretty close to saying this is not going to work and then we made massive progress and it disappeared and that gives me great pause and concern for the future of the project agreed anyone over there okay um all right then yeah I'm continuing do you want to add anything to that Peter no I think I understand the frustration and I'm happy to um be a conduit to get the point of the Cross and when I saw this project in May early May yep early yeah yeah right yeah it's been a long time and without a report with nothing yes so all right um is there a motion for the continuance okay you're our emotion

154person I'll make a motion to continue that um 10 to 60 Main Street special permit site plan review project to September 14 2023 meeting okay we have made it through that now um sustainability committee I apologize for the late hour all of us would like to be out of here soon but um but this is an important actually I'm going to ask are we actually going to be cogent enough to have the conversation Trisha given the late hour because I know I'm just going to check in with with Maggie and with with Margie and and Chuck to see if like it's it's a little late I want to be respectful are you checking in with the planning board or with a boat I guess that's a fair point because we're attention because it's 10 o'clock

155at night I don't want to give it less emphasis but I know you may have a clock on this and the fault was on our end not your end so um yeah but at the same time I want to make sure we'll have a coaching conversation um so um I'll I'll lean on you to see if you're actually able to lead the discussion because you've got the heavy lifting to do here I'm not really sure what what it is that we're going to be or we were planning to do right I would recommend Trish just given the the timing right now I think we've we hung on just just out of respect we didn't want to just leave you I apologize for that no it's absolutely fine I I get you had technical listing and

156I can see what you're doing really important yeah so your um I'm sorry I didn't hear the last part about you you said Ash I I thought someone was going to say can I just so I okay all right so what we're doing it's okay why don't you you have and it's okay go ahead make your point and I for one would like to do more research other than what I've done and it seems like there's so many different ways to approach a tree bylaw and so the suggestion I was going to make uh is that we maybe consider having a retreat with um the sustainability committee to really focus on the tree bylaw so that it's more of a working session and a little bit more substantive rather than being part of a formal

157meeting that we can actually sit down together and look at some examples of tree bylaws and really kind of get into the nitty-gritty of the complexities of what this is because I think it's a very complex issue suggestion I'd be comfortable with that if you guys can make the time because I do think that it does require some level of collaboration back and forth where uh you know 20-minute slots are probably gonna can always leave us with open Action items continuously having some sustained time on it might might actually push it through given the number of times it's been attempted but I'm also not the only one making a call on something like that you know in the interest of the calendar you know frankly I don't see during the summer getting people it's hard

158enough to make sure everyone is here every other Thursday to attend a planning board meeting with summer and vacations and other responsibilities so my recommendation if totally understandably you don't want to get in this tonight we put you first on the agenda for our next meeting on August 24th August 21st August 24th right after the clerk well right after public comment we put you first on the agenda everyone's bright-eyed bushy-tailed and give this matter the attention it deserves yeah I unfortunately won't be available on August 24th I'm actually out myself but Margie might be able to lead that conversation but uh um yeah so so we could we could approach it either way I'm actually open like I said I I want to make sure this gets collaborated on because at the end of the

159day this is something that you guys have to be comfortable with and and need to actually put out there because it is a bylaw change and and um you know it's my understanding that it's not like we are supporting even though we are we are spearheading the the need for it I think we're supporting you in putting together the right bylaws that that you can be behind right because we can't really do it you know well what is your suggestion for timing then I just can't guarantee that we can get a retreat date together that sounds difficult to me okay so um I know next is it next Thursday yeah on the topic uh yeah so so Peter I think you had had a conversation with Margie around timing just given the calendar challenges and

160what something like this really ought to go through which includes public review and and all of that I don't know oh no no it's it's there for the next on meeting one minute I actually you know what Ash you just the the screen here in town hall went black so can you just repeat well I understand your question we're trying to gauge timing so I was like we've been pushing hard for fall town meeting if is this actually gonna be feasible but but if we and and Margie and I discussed it and we were like if it's not fall it can be spring like we we care about the fact that it happens and it happens the right way but we also want to make sure that if we move from Fall to spring it

161doesn't mean that it just gets put on the back burner because clearly it needs the effort and the work and and that you know by by shifting it if that gives us the chance to do you know the retreat or or if that's the right mechanism and that's the appropriate way to do it I don't want to block that but but I also want to make sure that we don't all just sit back and kind of go okay great it's involved so now we'll basically just let it Slow Burn and then we'll be getting close to fall out to Spring and then it won't happen again you see where I'm coming from I think it's very early to make that decision decision first to really understand what our individual questions are okay I was going

162to suggest not a full-scale presentation and meeting but maybe one or two questions from each person on the planning board if we already have specific questions that we're thinking about as a way to yeah as a way to give immediate feedback or gut reaction questions for the next presentation that would be my suggestion tonight so that we move it forward even a little bit because I'm sure we each have kind of wise immediate questions just a thought a possible that you could send us those questions so we can hair to mail them or send them to you I don't have any problem with that yeah that way we can be prepared and we can come prepared with those have you all received the um I think Margie had sent out sort of the the brief

163around the work that had been done so far like like an in a slightly more summarized version absolutely yeah and was that useful was that what you were looking for I don't know if we've all had a chance to review it but I certainly found it useful and I would propose the planning board members get our questions over to Peter and Peter can combine them maybe and get them over to the sustainability folks I'll be happy to collect all the questions in the playing board and get it over to Margie and just to answer your question ask regarding the timing of the bylaw from my professional opinion it's going to be very hard to put together a bylaw that is ready to go for fall town meeting right now we are in August and I

164know just going by the dates we have to prepare for a town meeting that's going to be held mid-november I would have to have everything I would suggest that the planning board have everything wrapped up by last meeting in October and to give us at least three meetings to discuss that by law prior to that meeting which would have to take place mid-september which will be at our September 21st meeting I would also have to um advertise the bylaw in the newspaper and that's a three-week look ahead right and so really you're looking at late August to have a bylaw ready to go um to present to the town and advertise the town once it gets advertised you know you really can't change the bylaw and any huge you know any large manner um yeah

165so I will tell you right now and and I know I email Margie a timeline but uh I would say late August early September at the latest uh we would be looking to get a finalized bylaw and at this point I do see that as a very tall hurdle yeah so so here's what I'm going to propose then again my interest is to do the right thing by the town to actually succeed at this we've taken I think multiple swings at it but but to succeed at it and succeed at it right and that incorporates all of the feedback right and this is not a hidden process like in any way so um let's let's agree that we'll meet at the next meeting we'll put the questions together just so that we can continue make

166progress fresh I'm gonna take the timeline pressure off us of of trying to do this in Fall as long as we all align on the fact that we'll do everything possible to get this into the spring right and that just gives us the space to do this right and that's the intent and and it's not the intent to punt it right um I think it's premature for us today without a substantive discussion to say whether it's fall or spring I think Peters I think Peter's information is saying it's just not and um is that not what you you heard I understand that that is Peter's recommendation and I respectfully believe that we need to have a substantive discussion before we as a planning board can either agree with Peter's recommendations or not because a lot

167of it depends on how much pre-work we've we've done how much thoughts we have what our questions are I it could very well be based on our substantive discussions that we cannot pull it off or we could have a vigorous conversation in the next meeting and decide that it's extremely important for us and that we want to add extra priority to it so I would I would like to not today decide that we're not I think I'm about to bring it for the fall yeah that is fine it's not really even our call like we're waiting for a a bylaw to come before us and that would be my opinion like right now this isn't complete right this isn't I'm not disagreeing right right so right right so understanding how long it takes us to

168get to that level of completeness it seems very optimistic to fit that schedule so but that's fine we can hold off on it till next time yeah yeah let's let's let's let's agree to the meeting on the 24th I won't be there but I'm not critical part on this right Margie is the important person from my committee and Chuck's going to be there so so let's agree to the meeting to the 24th you've all gotten the summary that we had promised in our last meeting um if you could review it send the questions to Peter that way Margie knows what to prepare for how to structure the conversation right uh let's have the conversation on the 24th and then make a final call on you know and I think now or later or whatever right

169okay but let's also commit to the fact that then if we're pushing it later that we do everything so that we don't end up in a position where we will again run out of time that's all I would and Marcel has a question on this yeah um yeah I think that's going to become self-evident when we meet um I can I suggest one thing and maybe ask ask you that you can tell us we're looking forward to this discussion um could we start next meeting maybe with a very quick executive summary on your part or or your your team maybe Margie will do it on on the history of why the bylaw failed last time and understand what what in your view uh led to to that result so that we the intent is to

170create something that we all feel is important and that will pass I don't know I don't think the bylaws I just want to clarify it's never been complete hold on hold on sorry it's never been the process I've never been completed so it's never gone to town meeting okay okay even down to that it has never come to the planning board yeah yeah and I think so what what Ash was referring to us we've won multiple times is that the internal process it was the internal process it's internally I can state that our old assistant player Emma our old sustainability manager Franklin cash in Margie uh met multiple times with DPW staff and there was never a consensus regarding the the bylaw how it does how would it apply the enforcement the size of the

171tree how it's measured is there a payment in lieu what's the cost looking you know it's starting to as we started to analyze uh other Town bylaws how it was really going to be implemented how it was going to be adopted implemented and and and and discussed did the Bible how how was the bylaw going to fit in mold and really mold how is the bylaw going to be molded for Ashland okay so then the plan to to address that should be in place so that we don't repeat that right this is where I think Peter might prepare a memo for us outlining some of those issues so that we can be better prepared as a planning board to actually provide and find consensus I don't think that though all those I mean I was

172here for all of them I think yeah beginning right and I don't think that they're that detail Margie might be able to provide other drafts but this it's been much more piecemeal than that than what I'm saying Destiny's Peter has some expertise as a planner in some of the challenges if you will of a tree bylaw that we as a planning board might want to consider if we're going to attempt to reach consensus as a planning board I'm just throwing it out I'm happy to outline what I believe the past no no I don't want to do all in the past because it's more like hey planning board these are some of the elements that other communities have these have I'm happy to outline a one-page memo about something like that so that we can

173more efficiently as a planning board get to the heart of where the problems might be I'm happy to do that okay I'm not really worried about the past and I would urge all of us to forget the past yeah and then all of a sudden this thing called covet hit yeah but I was not referring on just dwelling on the past I was referring about learning on the past to ensure that we don't repeat it I would say I'm happy to put a little one-page memo and and we can kind of work through it but um but there was multiple meetings Margie was involved the assistant planner was involved we came up with a pretty good draft we were looking at stuff from other towns we sent them some social economic data that we collected

174recently that was updated What towns have tree bylaws I can tell that Trisha remembers the fondly it's just been it's been a really long time yeah it's been on the table a really long time and then you know and that was really what I was reflecting on is that we when I said we've taken multiple attempts we've taken multiple attempts of trying to draft this thing one of our learnings Marshall just so you know because we went through a similar sort of introspective process was that we didn't Engage The planning board early enough and that is why I came to you the last time around saying I'd like to start this process with you rather than trying to come up with something that's already abstracted out and and you know we get stuck in the

175mud just before it even gets to you right so that's my attempt at making a learning from the past so so we'll see how it goes but but you know honestly it's never been out there we just haven't gotten it past the Finish Line yeah yeah it's just one thing I did you know right now this is a six inch diameter tree right now in our bylaw this is a major tree right this is an eight inch tree right this is an industry standard major tree when it comes to a street tree right and so just to we just have to discuss and and focus in on what's a major tree what's a minor tree right because right now we're not even we can't even we're not we haven't even reached that consensus well we've

176never tried I know one word has never actually had that time and I know the sustainability the sustainability hasn't tried with the planting boy right so it's kind of like okay what qualifies what doesn't qualify you know when you come through a putting blood application should there be a tree plan you know what elements what what are the triggers right and I think those are the bigger items that have to be flushed out you know within a discussion I think having that discussion and remembering that we're not we are not actually changing the bylaw town meeting does correct we are presenting we're presenting and so whatever it is we are drafting is meant to give the public a chance to opine and potentially consider options so it's not that the planning board has to come

177to the perfect consensus of which one of those is the right answer we have to find what are we willing to present to the public for consideration a town meeting which is slightly different from reaching that perfect decision agreed okay so we're moving this to we're going to move August 24th and I'm going to say 7 15 to 8 15. yes and we'll have an hour to discuss if we need more yeah and thank you so much for coming tonight live in person um thank you this is important thank you yeah for being the one and only audience member oh I'm sorry okay all right I have turned officially into a pumpkin at this stage even though I don't look like it so I'm I'm gonna call it um thank you again for for for

178for listening thank you yes all right thank you all right so um yeah he's being thrown off by those technical issues okay I don't think jump in if you think I'm wrong I don't think we need to do anything under seven nope September 14th we're gonna have a joint meeting with the select board they're just showing up to our meeting very easy we'll make sure we have appropriate time in our agenda yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna put that first okay um and we'll get our questions to you about the tree by law oh yeah we'll get them to you yeah yeah um and then eight um I have a um eight a comprehensive plan I just have a very brief um I had a very brief introductory meeting with the um with Jen Goldson today

179reached out to her as a planning board member um we had originally had Anna and I and she got tied up at a work thing so two things I think I got this correct that um I don't think I knew before from her presentation and obvious detail is that she has phases it roughly lines up with everything we knew and I believe she intends a part of her process to come to the planning bar at the end of those phases like an actual so it's way down the road when that is or whatever um the second thing relative to the board um she did like I said that we were the two reps of playing bird she was thrilled to hear that there was like that on the steering committee and my only other thing

180was saying that the board is very engaged about it and if there's things that she thinks are helpful she will ask but you had brought the last meeting about us coming potentially to meetings and she said that may what she's seen possibly is we may just have to advertise it if we think planning board members are coming to them um so like if we go to a public meeting kind of if if so you and I will probably be there we will try to be at steering committee meetings and then if other planning board members come yeah I think it's about I think it's about if you can participate you know or how you participate I mean I'm just going from open meeting law from the governor's office but um but Lisa Mead can weigh

181in on that well that's why I brought it up she she didn't make a heart fast she just raised and not to deter was the opposite it was like the easiest way is just to advertise yeah I mean it's written out by the Attorney General's office so um you know if you're just listening in you know versus participating but you might if you went to a meeting as a resident probably you might want to participate which you which you can participate you just can't delete you have to do it publicly not by sending text back and forth with your you know whatever you just have to do it publicly I mean comforted doing that anyway about that so anyway but yeah we can look into it just to make sure everything is above board um

182I actually um related to the comprehensive plan I actually watched both the June and July meetings so it was good going to see what was going on I was especially it was especially interesting to see the July meeting with the two co-hosts that were their two co-hosts co-chairs sorry co-chairs that were not on the select board or the planning board and how that seemed to I don't know if it was that if that reason or whatever but there was a much more engaged many more other voices that it really the voices just seemed much more distributed because even at the first meeting you know just a few people talking at the second meeting but I guess it was the third meeting I didn't watch the first one um it's just a lot a lot more

183people were engaged so I was really happy to see that because that seems like what both of you been talking about reiteration of what we wanted about it leadership should be none and about the residents kind of driving it not select board planning board you know kind of thing so that was yeah good to see I think I mean we're literally like there's people in there that I still don't actually really know so I think we're honestly at a big group still getting to that point as well there's a lot of people so I think I think some of that comes just with more time you start feeling more comfortable right that kind of thing and from what I recall the steering committee wanted to give new folks a chance to try to co-chair so

184hopefully others will try as well and I'm sure we'll have even more diversity the more residents get involved I mean it's a two-year process and it will be good to see where where the leadership ends how it all works out yeah I was I was very impressed to listen to the group and I don't I know so I know some of them but I don't know most of them I would say so I'm very impressed so anyway just want to note that um anything else in reports that needs to be done today we talked about design review sustainability CPC met but there's nothing really um related directly to planning boards we can talk about that another time if there isn't anything else under eight then under administrative at administrative matters I wanted to get back

185to this associate member update um which it seems like ages now that we talked about this and Kevin was here and we reviewed the description for the associate member um so after that um we had so I'd written up that position um it had gone um on the town website on the volunteer page it's still on the planning board page um and it was also published in um Michael's newsletter twice in July and but obviously but but at the same time right after we right after we made this description both Peter and Anna said that hey you know there's a lot of qualified people that applied for the um for the comprehensive plan but expressed an interest in being involved in the town right and so um we thought it would be a good idea

186to reach out to um to those people who made it to the interview stage of comprehensive plan selection but weren't selected as the comprehensive plan representative right so um so that was decided we decided to do that and um I think I formed a letter to send to those people and here's where it got kind of confusing because Anna then decided to skip out of the country sorry guys yeah so um so I was waiting for I actually didn't know she was going out of the country so I didn't it's okay you have permission to travel without me I feel bad but no no no so the process just got a little delayed because I was waiting for Emma's response right um in the meantime one person from one of those people that was on

187the comprehensive plan list Peter happened to see them and informed this is the application we got Peter informed them of the positions that person applied but meanwhile the whole other process was a little no one was applying no one was applying through Michael's website or anything like that um so when Anna returned the letters went out to those comprehensive plan interviewees but we really have to just put the date later to allow and keep keep putting it on Michael's it was still before the deadline that we had all agreed on yes but very short but it extended it yeah so um so I guess we should think of just what we want that deadline to be I think we talked about maybe August 21st but that's not very far away anymore what deadline did we

188give them I put August 21st on the and we've gotten nothing in response I got a reason Monday yeah so they had two weeks but I would say to the end of the month okay I think that's me I think that's fine I think that's what you had suggested too that's fine that I think that makes sense so we'll change it to what we'll um I don't want to say open it back up because it never really closed because maybe do a follow-up email that says hey yes the planning board on today's date assuming we have yeah so if you're interested please fill out a tablet yeah Talent Bank Forum do we need to update that date on the regular thing that we posted on your website yes we'll update it everywhere and then we'll

189put it back in Michael's um with a new newsletter with a new date so it's just back out there again I mean like I said it hasn't been no one's been beaten down our door so uh we might as well and and and Peter has been in touch with the one person who didn't did apply she gets it it's fine right yeah the process no problem so yeah yeah so it's all it was just a courtesy update and yeah pretty much ahead so that's where that simple matter got confusing with that I don't think do we need to get any of these updates tonight I have really nothing nothing if you have any questions you can happy to call me or reach out okay so then what meeting minutes do we do we have both

190of those 25th and then also we have June 8th where are those what's sectionally in uh they were right behind the agenda oh sorry so you go all the way back to the agenda finder's a mess all right so okay so May 20th 25th I did not have any changes I'll make a motion that we accept the May 2050 2023 minutes as proposed I'll second that and roll call Boop Depot all right so the next ones were June 8th it's in the packet I I sent in a proposed um I think today I think it is in the packet highlighted yes so the highlighted portion would be the proposed new language verbiage from Kate and Kate I assume you went back to the tape for that because I can't even remember what image or maybe

191you had it in your notes I don't remember what image she showed us no I tried to without doing a transcript I did go back to the tape because I the I think you all know that put that in was that if someone went down there it looked like gravel and I just wanted it to be clear from from the minutes yeah no I think that was a really that was a really good call I was just like how did she remember where the image was from update from you or Trisha then it's his Trisha I mean well I was the one Kate offered the edit but I was the one that presented that information at the time yeah I'll make a motion to approve the June 8th 2023 minutes as edited okay is that

192the end that is the end does anyone have anything else I'll make a motion to adjourn second roll call vote Catherine Jersey can die meeting foreign