Design Review Committee August 4 2023

001okay so I'm going to open the meeting at Kevin can you uh actually you're going to be doing you're doing the um report correct I'm gonna do the report so if someone else could take minutes yeah I'll do that so it'll be a little bit slow okay um Hannah well I'm doing this can you just write down all the people who are peer and present police and then send it to me afterwards yes great thank you okay Alva are you letting people in in the waiting room yes I'll keep an eye on it okay good um and tonight I'm also going to ask you since you're on which is awesome thank you if you if any if there's any extraneous noise in the background if you can mute everybody except the person who's speaking um

002I'm going to set some ground rules for the hearing we're about to open um which is that one person at a time speed I don't want anybody speaking out of turn I don't want people speaking on top of each other because it is too difficult for the committee to hear let alone the public and anybody else who's here um and we had a lot of that last time and I want to want that to change so I'm changing it and um please respect that and please just wait to be um raise your hand and wait to be taken and turn and with that without further Ado unless anybody on the committee has anything else to add let's open this meeting I'm going to open the earring so Mr Morris I'm going to assume you might

003have a presentation for us uh thank you madam chair actually my remarks will be quite brief because I have on screen with me uh Mr Ron bork your project architect and Mr Rick Salvo of the project engineer and I think due to the nature of the material that is to be presented live yeah largely the speaking process will be by those two individuals with um Mr Bullock being beginning first since he has the presentation which involves as much as 30 sheets so thank you for the opportunity to be here and we look forward to a productive session thank you okay so who needs to share the screen and Alvaro can you handle that for me please I'll give the permissions right now Ron bork Alvaro and what about Rick Salvo or is he the same

004okay great I also like to add that Julian salguchi is with us he's our Landscape designer so he'll be discussing his concepts with you great excellent so borrow if we could start with the Civil set uh uh I gave you permission so yeah you want me to bring it up or you gotta run yeah why don't you bring it up Rick and you can discuss it you know jump straight to the site layout plan here so I think the largest changes um since this was last uh presented had to do um with the emergency vehicle access um through the site and if I switch real quick here we had prepared um at the request of the fire department um a uh emergency vehicle turning movement through the site through peer review comment it was suggested

005that a slightly larger vehicle be used which is what you see here on the screen it's called a a bus 40 we had used a single unit 40 at the fire department's request the peer review were required requested a slightly larger vehicle on which we show the vehicle path which now will pass through this area right in here which will include a reinforced lawn which is comprised of a series of concrete octagon shaped pieces that get filled with loam and seed and then a lawn grows over them they're maintainable they're drivable they're H20 rated um what that path looks like I zoom in on it over here so the gray crosshatch that you see and this represents the building that will be sticking up out of the ground the heavy dashed line that you see

006is the garage level below um that is below ground and this path right through here is a combination of reinforced lawn h-20 rated uh patio for a walking path while emergency vehicles are not driving through there and then um Regular Lumen seed over the deck of the um of the garage so our regular vehicular access will be through this 24 foot wide Drive aisle that will access the perpendicular surface parking spaces head around um this little island down the ramp onto the lower level garages that garage that um Ron will be presenting just after this um and of course the emergency vehicles will be able to travel through the route um that I just identified um those are probably the largest changes there was a lot of um small technical changes that I'd be happy

007to um happy to walk through as part of the peer review comment that involve things like adding the utility poles to the plan which were our had already fortunately been surveyed that we added to the plan we added the fire hydrant locations which would be at either under the project we added a drain manhole on the Overflow pipe changed the Overflow pipe to a reinforced concrete pipe in accordance with the town of Ashland requirements um we'll be repaving this whole section of Road here from Curb to curb because when we close this curb cut here there's a low point that would trap water here so there we can eliminate that low point so it'll flow down to the catch Basin like it's intended to do rather than into the site which is what it does

008now um and then there was some um supplemental calculations that were required uh for the drainage system um which we had which we have also um provided and included um those are essentially the site changes to the plan um I think as you could see by and large it looks like probably the very similar plan that you saw the last time but those were the um the Civil changes that were made could I ask a question about the pavers um did you say that they're plantable or they're or are they um is it a mixture of Hardscape and softscape within the pavers so so the The Hardscape area which is shown by this brick hatch here will be just that will be a Hardscape the area in between if I zoom in here with these

009octagon shaped pieces in between the regular Lowman seed um will be planted and they're planted with what Lohman seed grass what kind of grass um I'm not sure what exact species of grass I guess I'd defer to the landscape architect for that can I jump in yep yep sure so that is actually a it's a clove grass and Wildflower seed mix provided by one Vermont Wildflower farm this is a very low growing seed mix it probably won't exceed six inches it's Clover and what Clover and clover grass and Wildflower what kind of grass I can check and get back to you when I present the landscape design portion of this okay great I'm interested in that in terms of its um ability it withstand drought traffic etc etc is that pattern visible is it reinforced

010meaning that there's a grid underneath the the planting material or do you would you do you see the the Octagon so you you'll see it when it first goes in once the vegetation gets established after a growing season probably at that point you won't be able to see it so it grows over the grows over it that's correct okay that's that's the same stuff that gets used outside of uh uh like assisted livings and nursing homes and things yeah we've used this on a lot of different projects uh quite successfully is it supposed to be grown over or if it was maintained over time you should still be able to see the no it's intended to be grown over so it's intended to look like a lawn for people that are walking by yet be

011able to support a fully loaded fire apparatus in when that need arises okay so I I'm asking because there are products that where you still see the the grid of of you know concrete pavers and grass in between yeah the intention will be for it not to be visible okay and then um what's your plan for holding down the edges against plows because that's how I knew that some that they've used that stuff around nursing homes and assisted livings it's like a plowed up at one place yeah I mean well this I mean I I don't think you didn't you'd intend the plow to scrape all the way down to the top the plow would probably be held you know a little bit over the top um of it I've never seen an installation where

012there was an edge installed with it um I suppose we could consider installing a curb of something along that edge but it kind of defeats the purpose well I think you have to actually have a heart to heart with the contractor who's doing the plowing back there and tell them they have to have shoes or um there's a couple of names for them but they're they're relatively cheap you put them on the plow and they hold it up to keep it so it doesn't pick up stuff like that yeah and we can also add that into the O M plan just so it doesn't get lost in the translation right okay The Pedestrian walking path would be plowed um but Kathy you're saying the plowing of the landscape area as well that does the fire

013department require the full 12 foot width to be plowed I would I would imagine so because it would sort of defeat the purpose if there was a snow bank there and you couldn't drive a final region through there and all I'm going to say is as they come through have with the with the snow depending on how Frozen the ground is sometimes that stuff also gets picked up so in the case where I saw it they were plowing the snow off onto what they thought was lawn which is how they actually caught the um what are you calling this material I call it yeah grass crate is a common name we refer to it as a reinforced lawn okay but it's made of plastic or concrete concrete ah So eventually when we see the materials

014I'd love to see a sample of that okay thank you and uh what was the size just since I'm taking the minutes what was the size of that vehicle uh bus Dash 40. so like I said originally in the comments we received from the fire department they wanted us to use a single unit 40 peer-reviewed re said suggested a bus 40 might be more appropriate it's a slightly larger vehicle um so we went and ran that vehicle and it worked just fine great okay um any other questions from the committee at this moment or can we move on to the and let them finish the presentation yeah I just had one more question about um the drive lane for the fire truck um is the is the curb between the parking lot and where the

015fire truck would enter into that paver system area would that would that have a chamfer on it you know it's there's a curb there that would prevent sorry particular traffic from going in that direction but it has kind of a 45 degree yeah we'll make sure that this is a as a piece of granite edging that's a good point I mean they can they could they can come up a six inch curb reveal without issue but why not make it a little easier for them I think that's a good point yeah I've seen that before so I'm just racing yeah we'll specify that piece that's granted edging I think that's a good that's a good point I don't have anything else Kathy we can um you can continue on with the rest of your presentation

016great thank you John one floor is yours again we're on a turn the sharing over to you I'm sorry I was muted is Alvar still Oliver Could you um share with me the file that I had sent over yes are you going to send another an email or just share it from my screen okay I'm sorry albar I can't see uh we can't see the share uh I just sent it to you um so you can there's something up on the screen now yeah now Ron that's my screensaver oh if that's your screensaver you're gonna need to stop sharing for so he can share it well yeah or Ron if it's on yours if it's on your screen and you have it why don't you just you're you're enabled us to share you could just

017that's what I tried to do but I got an error message so um there we go okay let me try that again all right so share screen okay can you see that yeah there we go thank you sorry about that um so this was the uh uh based on the discussion we had in our last meeting and addressing addressing some of the uh all the issues I think that um and concerns that we had so I will just run through this and there's also Landscaping here which Julian will will take over um this is this is the climate information so I'm just going to pass by this uh this was a shadow study and unfortunately in SketchUp the boxes you see because the plants are like two-dimensional plants you see a box as a shadow

018but those indicate Shadows of the trees but more importantly it gives us a look at the building itself and what the solstice is uh will show for shadows and and the value in this is obviously in the shadow study itself but also into the discussion about potential solar on the roof um I think that you know we can see that this the south facing uh portions of the building um are really solar ready um the benefit to that is that they are not directly visible from the street so that if you're coming down Homer unfortunately with solar panels you know they don't always fit the roof correctly and they don't have triangular pieces and things like that so uh sometimes it detracts from the building although you're trying to do the right thing but in

019this instance where we have this Southern face and even the face that's on the um the South I guess the north side of the Terrace but the South Base of the of the roof on Homer uh gives us some opportunities to uh have some I think some significant panels there uh while maintaining the architectural look that we're we're trying to achieve on on the public side of Homer's Avenue uh this is a contextual elevation showing the existing conditions along Homer Ave and the dotted line represents the uh the project site it's a little out of alignment but that's the nature of that elevation trying to piece that together but it does give you an indication of um you know the solid building uh which is the small retail along the uh corner of Homer Ave

020and then where we step back into this site you can see that there's a lot of I call them you know um indentations and lack of continuity of us of that edge uh which we're trying to address uh this is superimposed with the elevation showing how we continue to bring the you know we bring the edge back we create points of interest um you'll shadow and um solids and voids uh lower level is is commercial space upper levels are residential [Music] um you know it meets the massing if we look at the uh Alden Street elevation next we'll see how the volume uh is consistent with what's on that street so this is Alden Street left to right the right is home around our project site is shown and then there's a massing of the

021building which is it's a little skewed because of the way the Homer Street works but um where it runs but it does give you an idea of how the massing would would fit into the neighborhood is there project data uh one of the comments on the peer review was about the turning radiuses in the garage I did go back and look at them and they were correct so I repair I've um you know look look at them and and uh made sure that they all worked at 24 foot radiuses they do sweep back which force our parking to change slightly but we do maintain the 38 parking spaces what size are those those are nine by 18. with a 24 foot backup okay how many electric stations are you proposing we're making all of them

022EV ready both on the site and in the building but how many are actually you're making them all EV ready you said so you can plug in anywhere well there'll be the potential to add the stations so they'll be they'll be roughed in to be able to add the stations over time okay so how many stations well 38 in the basement and 22 on the uh round level okay how many stations will you actually have I'm sorry I don't know what um what number that uh what is required well I think we're looking for every development to have some plug-in places and the fact that they're all EV and it's all EV ready is excellent um because then you don't have to dig stuff up to put it back in but I think we'd like

023to have some I don't think we have a specific requirement but I would have to double check on that but I think you can certainly have some available on the on the uh on the first floor level and then some in the basement as well and have you anticipated a number for any of those no we have not we've we've just made them all roughed in so that that potential is there to add them as they need to be added if you there's a number in mind then we can certainly you know identify which which um which spaces would immediately happen um well I think the more you have outside in part uh for both your commercial and some of your residential parking areas would be helpful and then um you know we're we're I'm

024assuming you're building this building because you're expecting to be in Ashland for a while so you know that we're going to Net Zero hopefully by 2040 and this will be a big piece of it yeah is is the project pursuing lead no okay that could potentially be a baseline to use you're not pursuing lead but um lead has minimum requirements for some of their credits for Ev stations so that could be a basis um if there is isn't one in the town currently so um another comment from the peer review was on trash uh storage and removal and bike storage so I'm going to go back to the basement so we do have trash and recyclables room of which um uh that building owner will twice a week have uh you know smaller vehicle come

025in uh pick up trash and take it off site uh for bicycle stores I have one location at the uh in the in the lower level as well as a location just outside of the lobby and and the front entrance as well as that back entrance with a handicap spaces there's also sorry about that um can you go back and show where each of those are sure so in the upper right corner um it'll be a there'll be a like a wire cage uh with controlled access inside or outside inside okay and then there will be um Lock Storage on the first level directly outside of the residential Lobby the residential entrance and the um the hatched area for the handicap access there's also a bike rack just outside of the residential entrance I have

026a question about the EV setup charging stations who is that it's George okay George uh I'm going to ask you to wait until um we go through the presentation or at least we get through what what the committee has to ask about this that particular with the bikes um okay what about if you're one of your commercial spaces has um let's say they sell ice cream so that would uh get a lot of people biking down perhaps to use do you have bike racks outside somewhere um Max by the little pocket park on Alden Street the entrance to the um to the residence but we can certainly there's there's a you know there's a lot of Paving in front of these uh these entry doors so they can certainly be placed there it wouldn't be

027disrupting landscaping or anything so I think as depending on what the tenant mix is there's the flexibility to accommodate uh either benches or or bike racks yeah there's actually bike rack benches did you know that no yes they're kind of cool actually okay um so on level two one of the comments was to um shift the building northward this front section to enlarge the space at the um as sort of the the pinch points of the of the terrorists um the number four foot was was used what I needed what I had to do because these roof lines were all worked out and it was very difficult to get the full four feet I shifted it two feet in this direction and then back here I shifted it down two feet so I have the

028four feet I just didn't have it all in the front I was also concerned about exceeding square footage for parking for the commercial space balance but it does accomplish the same goal um I have also in designing the the units um that you know paid paid attention to creating situations where you weren't looking directly across into a bedroom on a short axis as well as uh as as Julian talks about his his planting uh scheme we've kind of denied the space closer to the bedrooms along here with uh raised Planters and and plantings so people will not be able to be directly above or directly you know in front of a bedroom window within close proximity um how high are the planters uh they're 18 inches okay uh level three uh again the units are

029um you know at least design development laid out um show that they all work and that they you know they need some square footage requirements and on the roof plan as we discussed so if we look at the southerly part of the of the sheet uh we can see that we have some opportunity for solar uh we'll have some opportunity for solar on the north side of the level two Terrace roof as well as with a flat roof slopes down on either side um on the left side we have smaller Dormers so it'll be a little more difficult to have anything that's really consequential but it really does help um it helps a project it helps the resiliency and things like that but also not having it directly on Homer that's not the most efficient

030location for them I think helps a project as well because it does solve that problem that we always see with solar panels of them sticking six inches off the roof and being square boxes on triangular you know roofs um so you're proposing putting them on the flat roof sections the 500 and 740 750. as we developed the condensing units we can we can work with that and have uh panels on there as well we have space you know maybe we gang them all in one location or I'll shift them so we can we can get additional panels there but also on the sloped roofs along the pathway uh the the emergency vehicle pathway foreign before we leave the plans I have some questions about um level one if you could go back to that so

031my understanding was that we were going to see a plan that showed more commercial space on Alden Street and I thought unit 2 was coming out could you just remind me and just you know just tell us what transpired about that corner because I was expecting unit 2 wouldn't be there I think well we had discussed um sort of reconfiguring it I I don't think we and and discuss enlarging it um I mean I do have a stair here which which serves from the garage to the third floor which takes up this corner everything else beyond that is for commercial where's the entrance for commercial on Alden Street uh right here in the corner in my corner uh let me I'm sorry let me Zoom one so it's off off the corner off all the

032shoe so is this I'm going to mark this up is this the space that we were talking about last time that uh the plan would be revised to show the additional commercial tenant space at Alden Street that's this space here there were originally three three uh units along that uh pathway there one of them was eliminated and the other two were reconfigured that's how I read it is that correct Ron that's correct right so I'm looking at the at the previous uh first floor so the commercial went to the corner and the stair was essentially where the commercial entrance is and then we had units one and two so units one unit two um Extended basically to the to the corner of the trash room so that was pulled back that space was given to

033the um to the commercial space which was noted here is 800 square feet I'm not sure what the square footage is but it was I think it was a comparable size and the stair was shifted to the corner so uh so the commercial space was um shifted more towards home around where this door is located but what was so now I I found the plan that was provided previously where the stair was shifted right um sort of in this location so what was the reason for move removing the stair well there's only um if you go to the the basement floor plan there's only so many locations that the stare on that end of the building uh can be placed the building Notch is in here um the stair was located approximately in this location

034where space 28 is and it created a situation where traffic coming down the ramp it was running you know directly into the stair which I I didn't think it would be a good idea to have nesting traffic walking through there and then climb an area through the first second and third floors I see okay so it was a result of um continued planning efforts yeah that's right that's correct yeah um okay um so my other question was yeah is this the second floor um so we had talked last time about shifting This Bar plan North and I you said that you moved the South Wall the South red line but did the whole bar move to modify the depth of the recesses at Homer it did but it only moved two feet I believe um

035the impact on the roofs left it very difficult to resolve the ridge lines so I was able to move it two feet and then I what I did was on the uh where you in a 12 is the wall south of the um I guess I could use the same thing you're using sorry the wallets the wall that's on the unit of Walled unit 12 was shifted back as well to give myself the four feet that we were asking for I just didn't I couldn't get it all on home around so when you did your Shadow study did that move more of that patio into the light the plantings I didn't I didn't do the shadow study with the older version I did I did it with the not in the same fashion um I

036did the on the renderings and showed it but I did not go through this particular process where does it show it on the on the can you blow it blow it up so we can see those more clearly because they're pretty small in that yeah I want to see what it shows in the Corolla December December 21st uh noon shows a small Shadow okay March slightly larger September and those Shadows on that are from what and so the shadow you see here that the peak is this Ridge um to the south of the Shadow and then the the hash the little rectangles you see are actually those plantings that um I have in the model but they are they read as squares when they do Shadows they don't read as a silhouette of the plant

037okay so what time of day is this one they were all done at noon so the one in December has less shadow that's what I was I was just I'm wondering if I may have bet I may have reversed one on um when Julian's talking about the Landscaping I'm gonna go off screen Echoes okay that'd be great because that was one of my concerns about that was what's in the planters a lot of that looks like material that needs more Sun than it might get up there if it's in shade during the growing season okay yeah so as Julian's speaking about his his landscape I'll I'll open the SketchUp model and just make sure that I didn't reverse these sticks okay great thanks uh does that answer your question on the commercial space yeah the

038other the other um you know challenges to is to kind of maintain the square footages in the parking count balance um if I added a thousand square feet I would have not had enough parking spaces on site to cover it so that's sort of that back and forth that we're constantly struggling with yeah I was just making sure the most current iteration of the plan um and it sounds like we are so I am happy about that and I'm looking at the previous iteration of the level two layout you know after Shifting the bar closer to Homer Ave it does seem more generous there's can you can go back to level two I think previously there were there were more um there are more undulation to that to this facade um inside this Courtyard and

039so it I mean I I wish that it was larger but I think it's more generous than what you had previously so um I I'm not gonna comment on that further right now I also think that position in the bedrooms where there is a significant planting bed in front of it helps to deny people that space so you do have that that sense of privacy right that's great appreciate that is yeah so it looks like the the overall layout of that courtyard space is is new I mean you you completely reconfigured it right that's correct yep yeah look at the plantings the race Planters the comments that were were made and uh Julian went back to the drawing board and came up with an alternate that he'll discuss and hopefully uh is something that Appeals

040um so there's a requests to do the um the straight on elevations um which we had done it just weren't part of that package you haven't sent these into us yet this was part of the pet the original Pat the package I sent okay good that's what I thought now this one um elvar the package that I sent you this afternoon because I did I did do uh a series of um swatches on the side here for um uh for uh materials colors potential trim colors complementary colors for the trim and the and the siding and I I did share it uh run at the moment that I received that I shared it today okay is that but that's not this file no that's the file that you sent me today this afternoon okay so

041I will I will uh I will follow up but there are color there's a color swatches here representing the trim the field and you know complimentary colors if we if we were to go with this type of scheme for example isn't what we're looking at right now no I had this afternoon I had uh added uh boxes here that just show a different Benjamin more colors for for cardboard all right so when are you going to send what we're looking at right now oh when Julian jumps on with the uh um landscape I'll I'll resend that sheet okay great uh actually Kathy you should have it I sent it today at around like four oh that is the one I saw okay 346 yeah right because I did it I did add some um uh

042green roof details just some standard details and I added these color swatches okay thank you for sending in sending it on yeah uh so we we looked at uh different uh styles for the elevation and they all have the same um sort of principal premises to is to have um just several materials in a module and and have order to them uh so in this instance this was the one we'd seen before with the decorative brackets the composite trims uh sort of the dental the large uh glass windows at the um at the commercial space and we'd have obviously low equalizing um and brick veneer on the first two levels of the insets and then a collaborate um style siding above and then looked at that same elevation if we were to use a a

043shingle in the upper level create a datum line um and then maintain a collaborate on the lower level with a fixed awning another style where if we win with the board and Baton similar to the um sort of The Farmhouse look that you see um mixed with a a collaborative siding on the lower level you know this could be a darker collaborate with a white Farmhouse look personally to me that's that's a style that doesn't belong on this but it is a style that does belong with the kind of the massing and then this is a combination of a little more water material have metal panel on there on the recesses uh flat signage without an awning uh denoting the residential entrance and then all these we show building signage in those panels um so

044that gives us some different looks to the same elevation but they all have the same principle of having you know each block is organized it's not overwhelmed with diff with you know with five or six different materials um and it has an order to it so I'm going to let Julian take the screen and discuss um his planting plan all right hold on a second one Uh Kevin or Hannah or Bill do you have any questions about what we've just looked at any comments yeah I think we should pause and talk about the architectural materials um start back at number do you want him to start back at number two so there were five total well the first one I saw was two with the brick in it elevation material the elevation that's on the

045model uh I just want to make a note run I think that you're showing the not updated version of like of the just the last file that you sent to me today no I understand that that's what I was I was okay I know I know it's not the updated version but the only changes were the materials that I showed on the left so I'm going to go back to that and then we can revisit this so if we if we can revisit this after Julian's um that can move us along and I can get the correct file sure excellent thanks so Julian can you um pick it up from here yes I can if you could just move the mouse for me Ron and just indicate the areas that I'm speaking about that would

046be wonderful but I'm going to start from the front then move to the left side to the rear parking area and then the right hand side but just to preface so while designing this project low maintenance stroke tolerance native plant selection and mature plant height as well as solar conditions we're taking into consideration for this and all trees shrubs and perennials are being shown at their mature sizes so we're going to start in the front and along the front of 9 to 49 Homer Ave and in front of the large floor to see the windows we have a layered mix of perennials and shrubs so from front to back we have plants like carricks abicons geranium maculatum chest manthium latifolium and then hydrangea corsifolia Ruby Slipper they are the largest shrubs along the fronts and

047they reach ahead of three to four feet tall and are being used to soften the architecture of this development and they're located in places that won't obstruct the large fluency windows um so we saw a solar analysis from Ron earlier indicating that the front of this property along Homer Ave is going to be pretty shady it's not facing so that's expected for that area so all these plants are able to withstand um some levels of shade definitely um also at maturity once they're established they're going to be drilled tolerant as well and require little maintenance for the front plantings I'd estimate you know you need a simple garden opening and closing and then limited maintenance during the season just to keep things looking tidy but this isn't a this isn't any kind of like super

048high maintenance perennial garden we're going to move on to the left hand side now so this is going to indicate so this is the entrance from Homer Avenue um we see two types of grasses along the entrance panic and Virginia Adam Shenandoah and more the inlets folium north of seaos further back we have an upright variety of white pine pinus strobes facijigata more panicum Virginia and then after staff of the scuba ursery as a ground cover where is that you're talking about is that that's a little triangular thing here yes the arctostery are the um the dark green rev clouds in between the pinus strobus vestigata all right in these areas yes thank you Ron so the green circles I can barely see this on my screen right now could you zoom in for us

049a little bit Ron good thank you is that better yeah yes it is thank you of course yep so that's along the left hand side as you enter into the rear parking area um yes where's uh South for that where's South for what um in general well yeah because I think that's that's not going to get enough light of self is what's it called um North is along Homer Ave and the bottom area over here is Southern facing along the parking right but don't you guys have a fence property line there there's a six foot tall white fence along the edge of the property line and what's behind the Arctic stifylus uh behind those are the pinkish red circles that is um panicum Virginia anim Shenandoah um what's it called they get to a mature

050height of about yeah so um you might have to have a plan B if it turns out to be too silly for that stuff because it will tolerate some shade because I have it on a site where stuff is grown in and matured um to a faster degree than I thought it would but in some places starting to die back because it's in too much shade now yeah the Juniper is actually doing better even though it's sort of ubiquitous and and gets overused um in a site where it's going to get more shade I mean if this was on the facing side on the opposite side of the building there what was going to you know have almost no no obstruction between it and the light I'd say go ahead because I I've seen it

051growing on the dunes in Cape Cod and it's gorgeous yeah with that full sun exposure definitely so that's my comment over in here is that the same thing you've got down here in this little corner yes in between spaces 13 and 14 correct and the fences wear there um the fence is shown by a it's a dashing in X Ron is outlining it right now for us that your property line goes like that that is okay that's very interesting um okay yeah I think um I don't know I think you ought to take a good look at those the the solar values over there just you know and I don't know how many plants you would plan to put in there I mean maybe you could do them right next to the curves on the

052outside and put Juniper in the back or something but I'm fairly certain they some of that will not last and then you get weeds in there okay yeah no I'll think of a backup for the Arctic staff for this in those locations may I continue along with the real parking yes please of course so along the rear parking um it's cons it consists of a six foot wide planting bed that separates the parking spaces from the white fence we were just talking about um inside this plant inside this planty bed it's going to be a mass planting of plethora almofolia specifically Ruby spice a deliciously fragrant variety of plethora Island Folia and then over time these things will reach six feet wide by six feet tall and before we're Thicket so they're going to grow

053together eventually um sort of screening out the fence and offering fragrance and um beautiful flowers during the season um and then I have a note about the the arctos Southwest anniversary in between spaces 13 and 14. but like we talked about Kathy I will um look into alternatives for that there are some existing mature trees in this area I believe it's in front of space number 10 and 14. um there are existing Elm trees and oak trees so we're just leaving space for that and I'm not planting anything too close to them all right so this should show those trees it does oh I see got it okay yeah we have a little bump out in front of um spot number 10 just to uh um yeah just to accommodate it okay great um and

054I'm just gonna go back to the engineer and the architect the roots of those trees gentlemen have to be protected yes they do so I'm going to move over to the right hand side open excuse me yeah so what's the plan for protecting them oops because I can send you some documentation if you want on on the on the critical root zones yeah we appreciate that okay are you talking during construction on the off chance that a fire engine has to drive through there who's who's speaking please it's Rick Salvo sorry hi Rick sorry okay um I'm talking about the actual existing trees okay during okay during construction yeah and and you know what the plan is for protecting because if you're going to cut off most of those roots then um you know I

055think it'd be nice to keep those trees and they're shown as part of this and and keeping them only enhances what you're doing here so you know be worthwhile to protect them well there's really no reason to excavate in that area other than for the um for the driveway you know for the driveway so there's no construction going over there as far as building goes right but it's the actual driveway the installation of that driveway because how far down do you go uh generally about a foot yeah okay so I mean on the um on the subsurface drainage but I don't think it's close to that tree no I mean I'm looking at Google Earth right now there's already a there's already a paved parking lot right next to it so from this site yes

056okay so you know so that we really should be adding a new pavement section there we should just be pulverizing the pavement that's there and repaving over it so I I don't see there to be a ton of impact if it was lawn I hear you we'd be putting in you know um a big pavement section but the pavement section is already there okay I don't I remember walking through there a while ago with uh Ron and Terry and I don't actually remember the condition of it because there was a lot of piles out there at the time so if the paving is really cracked then the possibility there's a there's a distinct possibility that the roots of those trees extended into that area so I'm going to send over the critical root Zone stuff

057and I just would appreciate it if you all would pay attention to it when you're doing your construction because I think that's going to be those trees are going to be important moving forward okay yeah we can add some detail to the erosion control plan to make sure there's some orange construction fence put around there um and that sort of thing to protect that root Zone you gotta put it where on the erosion control plan so when the erosion control goes in the orange construction fence would go in before any work is done so it'll be protected thank you like that that's awesome and um just to keep in mind when dealing with trees too um you know those roots are going to grow horizontally and most of the roots of a tree are going

058to be the top four to 15 inches of the soil too so even if you are just simply Excavating existing asphalt you're going to you know disturb the roots to some extent so some sort of protection should definitely be um looked at and Incorporated but I'm going to continue along the right what I'm going to do is send a I'll send this stuff over to Alvaro and he can forward a to um to you all to take a look at it's stuff that we're we've got um under consideration right now to put into the design review um um guidelines in town at the very least but it's it's really you know if you're going to have them even it's it's worthwhile keeping them and I brought this before when you all proposed projects thank you

059for sending that over so I'm going to continue along the right hand side of this development so we're going to be by the Alden Street entrance to that park at Park that Ron was talking about earlier I'm right at the entrance we have a beautiful Eastern redbuds versus candidensis um and then along the southern side of this area along the fence we have a row of um we have a row of trees they are sugar Maples um the specific variety is Acer saturum Reba which is just an upright variety of sugar maple I believe that maturity the uh you know the crown of the tree is going to be about 18 feet wide so the goal here was to have a tree with a substantial canopy that's going to provide screening for the Neighbors while

060also not impeding on this Access Road for one a fire truck potentially needs to um get back there and I think this are those a normal tree are they um were they more fastidious they are a loose fastidious I would I would categorize them at they're not extremely upright like a you know slender silhouette liquid Damar Saras fluid but they are like I said the uh the canopy gets to be about 18 feet wide so they are upright but they're not super tight and then we also have shown in a Green Cross hatch is a Seedling mix that I mentioned earlier it's a clover grass and Wildflower seed mix um I just double checked the specs online a couple of minutes ago and the mature height of this stuff gets to be about 10 inches

061tall and Kathy I believe you wanted to hear about the types of grasses that were included in this seed mix we have two in particular one is which is a sheep Fescue and the other one is you know uh Festus ovina Jetty which is a hard Fescue perennial grass both are considered drought tolerant and um we have other things in there like Dutch white clovers um Johnny jump ups sweet alyssums and um and other perennials but like I said this is going to get about 10 inches tall at maturity that access path um there's no seed in that access path so you know this could be mowed less frequently than grass and it's going to require less water than grass too in the long run what's the um what's this what's the actual name of

062the mix the mix is a the actual name is Magic Carpet Clover grass and Wildflower seed mix and it's sold by the Vermont Wildflower Farm and a lot of the specs are listed online too on their website right including um you know detailed info like the specific varieties that are included in the sea mix and as well as um you know other other information okay great but that is all I have for the uh for this planting plant right here I'd love to hear any questions you guys have um I noted the uh the question you had Kathy about the I don't know if the question the uh the suggestion to potentially replace the arctostapless oversery with another more shape tolerant ground cover I'll look into that yeah you could you know you could keep

063it towards the outside you know where it'll get more sun but where it's close to the fence I think uh my experience says it's gonna it's gonna not have a good time back there um and then I want to take a look I want to see the front of the building that part um blown up more please sure thing thank you Ron um can you slide the screen so more of that is more yeah that's exactly right so the facade is more visible thank you so if your commercial tenants wanted to sit outside they you know if they had um if you have benches and stuff so other plans for site furniture out here I'm not showing any site furniture out here we just have um patio space in front of certain commercial areas right

064there's certainly um there's room for it and it really it really comes down to what kind of tenants end up renting a space so you you wouldn't provide it as sort of a matter of course the tenants would be responsible for it be up to the owner but um as far as he's providing a space itself I mean there's sufficient space out here to do for example tables for a deli um here it could be benches could be small table so you know we did allocate that space on the outside to try to tie the two together uh wanted to create an edge where you know people could sit out there and enjoy you know enjoy home around without being directly on home around it was kind of one of the goals yes absolutely so

065is any of this stuff ever green no that's the thing these are not Evergreen plantings um you know I'd say with the exception of using hemlocks most Evergreen plantings require good amounts of sunlight throughout the growing season so really Thrive and um and produce so when I was putting this planting plants together being the north side of its development I I steered away from them just because of that fact because that there is going to be limited sunlight in that area um but we do have grass so carrick's Advocates is going to flower produce seed pods and that would be some sort of winter interests that they're left up throughout the winter and then you also have stuff like the um the northern Sea Oats against the windows too if those are not cut down

066in the fall left up you actually have some pretty attractive um you know grass foliage in front but one day in front of the windows same thing with the hydrangea corsifolia ruby slippers um well not Evergreen they do have interesting exfoliating bark okay I just look at this and I know that you got Ron that you got a lot of feedback at the last meeting about I actually liked the Landscaping what we needed to do is was sort of organize the facade a little bit um I actually like the the planting selection somewhat better from the last time because there were more flowers but one of the things that I think is going to be part of the draw to get people down here is color and having it look really interesting and this is

067this is great but I'd like to see more color during the season out here and I'm really concerned about it in the winter um and how could you do what could you do out here to make it look a little greener in the winter and then um Brendan our associate member who's traveling today texted me um at the outside of the meeting and said he was wondering about trees out here and I know there are telephone poles and wiring overhead that looks really beautiful in front of your facade of your building but I'm wondering if there's a way to get some some kind of trees in here to help break up the facade some more and it's sort of a question to throw out to Ron and you Julian because I just look at the

068that front of that facade that Ron had up earlier and I'm like it you know we can see the building but it's it's not um the the Landscaping would help soften it because it's a this is a big building for this area and it's a big Mass which I'm I'm very concerned about actually um because when you go stand over on Front Street and you're attending the farmers market it is going to look totally different when people stand in there and look back over and if you know some year in the future we sink the railroad line down below then this is really going to stick up as something very large and very massive looking across from Main Street I'm sorry I agree with you Kathy on um the other the earlier plan I thought

069I thought Julian did an excellent job on I just felt the comments were just like it was too much I mean that that's what I heard um well that's what I heard sorry I'm interrupting you that's what I heard too um and I'm sorry that we didn't get a chance to discuss it more um I put some some um some of the small like the trees Julian that you had before I mean I thought that I thought you did an excellent job on that and it really started to have the landscape talk to the facade that was sort of the way I presented it um you have the old one I do but I think I'd have to get out of the zoom to to get it so um that's why I was hoping so

070what do you Julian do you remember what you had out there for trees um I was looking for it I couldn't find it right away so I gave up yeah I'm clicking around right now trying to find it as well um but what I remember is I had some sort of upright variety of trees along the front of Homer Ave um they might have been slender Silhouettes um American sweet gum trees uh I I believe I had those placed on the corners of of this develop of this development just to um you know soften these Corners up and um just because these planting beds aren't that deep there's really a limited number of trees that would fit in this area without getting overgrown at maturity um another suitable tree that I think could be acceptable

071up here would be um some more Eastern Red Buds um just because they are shade tolerant um and they're not going to get oversized I think they get 25 feet in diameter at maturity um but any trees that are planted along over Homer Avenue would need to be um you know ushered on and curated on by a knowledgeable arborist somebody who's going to um you know prune them away from the building when they eventually do get to the mature size the knowledgeable arborist because I just saw a building where the pruning job that was done to get Pines off of the building was burned on horrible probably use hedge trimmers or something yeah yeah they use hedge trimmers honestly it's really it was terrible um so but Eastern redbuds out here would be gorgeous agreed

072I think that pop of color in the early Sprint would be wonderful well I like the leaves and the shape of them they're it's a nice you know a nice plant um and then you know you might have to shift a little bit your planting scheme below um to accommodate the shade but maybe not and I know the Tasmanian theme is going to take it the um this Carex I actually use Pennsylvania all the time because it in a warmer environment it might actually stay greener um you know or part of it will stay greener excuse me would a red bud be affected by salt it's actually fairly tolerant it can tolerate some of it I mean it doesn't like the seashore but I've there's a place up along 126 almost at 117 where they're

073closer to the road than I thought they ought to be okay so road salt wouldn't affect them that much yeah they'll be Dorman and Julian what do you think I mean you could also um they could that area could get lined in the spring or um I'm forgetting the other stuff you can put on in Gypsum oh my God yeah yeah gypsum or something um yeah I know that's a that's a really good point about the salt tolerance because being along with more Ave right there right there and the sidewalk too you know that's gonna be salted all winter so that's definitely a concern um that's a Street sidewalk and not correct that's the town sidewalk not yours correct I believe so is that correct Ron correct yep are you all don't have to redo

074it because they're doing it is that correct I believe so Rick right the um the scope of the road work will include the sidewalks by the city okay okay well you know we'll just have to see so whatever you can do out there to make it a little more I I think some anything else you can do to have a little more of a a colorful draw down the street would be helpful um and I I do understand what Brendan was saying at the last meeting that might be that might have a tighter canopy I'm not a landscape architect so I don't know but what's what Native species might have a tight smaller canopy I mean horn beams there's a fastidious variety of those but even that they get pretty wide and they in my

075opinion they would have broke space at maturity um for Native upright plants upright trees the selection isn't that big for um for this area it isn't actually whereas you at least get the flowering of the sources first thing in the spring exactly yeah which would be really nice I know that I know that Brendan was looking for a more fastidious thing on the corner and then you I mean you could go to a non-native plant out there but um I'd be looking for it to be flowering at some point right yeah and I was sticking to Native species too is um important so that really limited the plant selection for this right so when this is getting put in your your plan is to do some sort of irrigation until it's established right yeah so

076this is going to need irrigation for at least the first two seasons and celebrity here is established but after that it can be toned down um as as most of these plants are drought tolerance yeah I'd actually I I actually think you should plan on three you might get lucky and have a year like this year where nobody has the water where you know last year everybody had to water yeah um because we just don't know what's what's happening because the hotter Road it gets the more I mean I look at Homer Avenue on the street and all that hot pavement is gonna make these plants suffer more you know the July we just had was insufferable basically and it's hard on all these plants right I definitely think the carricks along the sidewalk that

077will be pretty tolerant of you know heat and sunlight against the uh the sidewalk yeah and I think the oath grass will do the same breed Kathy can I make some comments on the patio spaces absolutely please do since we're in that area um Ron could you just zoom in on on that Northern section of this so I'm I'm just wondering about the attitude that you're taking towards each of these patio areas um so I appreciate the fact from last time all of the commercial entrances are now in the in the middle of each um of these recessed days um and I'm just wondering if it is going to be difficult to maintain the plantings on this North facade that will be in in shade do we reduce the amount of planting here and develop

078an attitude towards these patio spaces at the same time and kind of thinking leave this one the way it is but then extend all these patios out to the face of the sidewalk just so that we're giving um the tenant spaces you know the the same opportunity to to fit out these patios with site furniture and Cafe tables or whatever it might be to make it more usable and inviting to the public um and it sets up a you know a rhythm the build the the site Landscaping has an attitude just like the building does I I think that's a that's another way to look at it I did um when we get to the renderings and look at the paving patterns I did carry some of the paving pattern I think you had mentioned

079it across the drive lane from the pocket park and then I also carried it into these spaces which I thought was a was a good a good move um but yeah the shapes and and I guess it's what you're trying to accomplish um from is it is it that you want the building to be welcome and have its own identity so people kind of walk through this path into one retail space and you've got a separate one they share the patio in front but they have separate entrances in uh versus one that may be set up for a deli that has tables outside but still has a little separation from the sidewalk in the street because to me that's important I mean to I know we always reference that that building the the donut Shopper

080uh Deli and it's just it to me it's uncomfortable to sit on the sidewalk and have a car in the street right there without any type of visual or psychological buffer it's just one thing to add to that though um you could utilize some sort of like like deep race Planters um along the sidewalk too um to kind of so give you that buffer and then inside those Planters you could have maybe some sort of evergreen shrub like a you were a boxer just to give you that winter interest we were talking about earlier um but I I agree it is nice to have the uh the screenage um to separate the patio space from the sidewalk and Homer Ave C I'm gonna interject here just because this just brought up something that's very much

081on my mind now what um are there is there any curbing out there to stop a car from literally running off Homer Avenue into this into these spaces God forbid but you know there's enough people driving like crazy people these days and they they drive into houses and buildings a lot now so I'm a little curious about that because you know these spaces will be really nice until somebody drives into them and the same is going to be true for another couple of other developments that are happening there's a six inch reveal Granite curb all the way along the furniture's property which is where on this edge of the sidewalk or the edge of your property also edge of the sidewalk yeah okay we also had the telephone poles which will provide protection you're beautiful

082I mean listen I mean I mean I think some time off the road and and that kind of goes to the maintenance maintenance plan you know this is the front door of this building obviously that landscape is going to get oh it's going to get trashed I'm but it's more to like protect the people inside if there's you know people sitting out on a patio because I just I you know I'm just thinking about it so if you are going to do raised Planters where would you put them out here thank you for looking going in areas where if we open this up uh as as Kevin mentioned and we had a raised planter it's it serves as a barrier but also gives a planting bed but if you're going to do that you might

083as well leave what we have here yeah well I was thinking or at least leave the trees you know change some of those hydrangeas into trees um and then have you know it would be gated seating underneath the tree which would be you know it would be really nice what's but what's in that word it says hydrangea and what's to the left of it the left and right of it is that the geranium yes that is the geranium yeah I mean you could put the carrots or Juniper or something uh you could probably get away with juniper out there because that's also far enough away from the side of the building is there a native Juniper you typically use um yeah I'd have to look up the name I've actually I've got one that I've

084successfully used in containers a lot um I'll make a note to send that along with the um like a I was going to say junipers and Talus or that gets huge though right well there's one that gets really nice because it dribbles over the containers and yeah it looks beautiful and then you know some of you just have to come along every so often eventually when it hits the ground and clip it back up but it it's actually really nice and that that actually helps protect whatever's in those Planters because it's an added buffer against the Heat and cold of the street junipers are tough as nails and they tolerate salt I just have to go back and look at a couple of my client notes to tell you what it is because I honestly

085don't remember right now yeah you can send it over that'd be awesome I appreciate that it might take me a few days I might have to go up to the wholesaler and go around in the back back there and it they literally were plants that were selling for use in Christmas containers and then you could um plant them up and they're nice and small so I would buy a whole bunch and then plant them up and you know places where I didn't want to be doing a lot of digging but I needed coverage eventually so if we're concerned about the canopy of a of a tree interfering with the architecture I think I'm combining some ideas here by saying this but you know if the trees if the tree was out here towards the sidewalk

086and um was in a an Urban Plaza Grill you know it's not within the landscape but is embedded within The Hardscape um I mean maybe that's a location for where the tree could be it's kind of near the recess and wouldn't be impacted by the by you know needing to be pruned because it's growing close to the to the building to the architecture but where where are the telephone poles in the plan is there are they shown in the Civil drawing yes that would be my concern is the um the telephone pole locations and the wires you want to go back up let me just reopen it so you can see them here here and here I see silver if we were talking about putting a tree here right but the wires run straight between

087poles right right in the tree and the lowest wire is going to be 14 feet is that correct or is it supposed to be higher and we hope it doesn't sag supposed to be higher right because 14 feet is supposed to be the minimum I think you're right 16 feet yeah yeah okay um and that also limits the type of trees that can be planted along the the sidewalk too I mean Eastern redbuds have much of a ride at 20 to 30 feet um yeah so I'd be iffy about planting those underneath the uh telephone wire but then you could also look at some other large shrubs maybe like a malenky or like a service bearing um they you know they'll still provide you shade but they're not going to get massive and they're easy

088to prune and keep in check so why don't you look at some of those and then just make sure they're salt tolerant and will tolerate the heat I actually love the Amazon cures but I don't know if they'll tolerate to heat I'll look into that yeah this this is going to be a Shady Side too though Northern facing so maybe if you had some the raised Planters and had those trees directly behind them then that would help with their Roots keeping them yeah I think some of the street the heat from the pavement and sidewalk of the street back oh at the uh one thing too just just some going back to the other service batteries obviously they produce berries in the summer um that could get messy too along the sidewalk so I might

089well you know at some point here we've done a lot of taking away from nature so you know you'll have birds in the trees it'll be very charming and pleasant yeah mentality yes okay so before we get off of this the the paver I know that one of the other members of the committee who I think is not here or might have joined late they um these patio insects were you I think we talked about them being permeable at one point yes we did are are they permeable because that would be another way um you could actually do some green infrastructure in there in terms of your plantings and your storm water and have you know the edges of the beds be the excess rain water could go into the beds in there instead the

090bed's being raised and then the mulch slopes and then stuff runs off it could go the other way around might be kind of nice yeah my only concern to make sure that we're ADA Compliant on them on the pathways well as far as I know all the all the permeable Paving is ADA Compliant it's it's more you know the levelness and the straightness of it um and then having it be permeable I mean I've installed them before so we can certainly look at it as our first option and and see what we have for selections and um but I agree I mean storm water Management's important especially in this area so it's an important period um and getting more so with these crazy storms we keep having and it will help you with your snow

091removal in the sun in the winter for sure because the ice melts into the into the permeable sections so you have a lot less ice to worry about so you don't have to salt and sand out there in fact you're not supposed to okay um we move on this this was um the pocket park across the street um from the train station and this was a design along with uh Paving patterns and how and this goes back to the initial planning board um desire to to speak to the train station I know the comments that were in the latest documents said that we didn't have to speak to the train station but I think that this is a successful way to do it so we're not trying to mimic architecture we're not trying to you

092know put Richardson in elements in a non-resistonian building um but by taking the just the colors of the building and the paving pattern and and integrating it in um we've created a kind of a symbolic relationship between the two and that led into uh conversation Kevin about what happens if we were extended across and then what we so what I did was I extended across and just keep us kept extending it to those patios so that there's a there's a common denominator between this pocket park the axis kind of crosswalk and then the entrance to the buildings I mean it's all based on on this pattern on the wall so you'd be using that pattern for the patios in front of the building yeah it was more than it was more of the color I

093mean there obviously wouldn't be the same cut stone it would be a smoother Stone but as far as just the very in color and the um sort of the deep Earth Tones and it's not the entire it's the sort of the front similar to what I did here here was basically a welcome mat uh where the seating is and then it could turn into a permeable Paving if they chose to open this edge up for the restaurant well can you the edge for a restaurant oh that's the front edge of the building I'm sorry quick building right here so that's a building that's currently obscured uh so then the second floor Terrace um Julian I'll let you describe what your thoughts were there thank you so the main feature of the screen roof um are

094going to be the 18 inch tall Core 10 steel Planters um they're indicated by the uh the darker line um what's it called shown on the north side of this plan um a seed and Herb mix will be sown inside of them and then the circular areas cut into these steel corts and Planters are areas with artificial turf and it's space for people to have outdoor furniture tables chairs recliners stuff like that um I believe we have four foot wide walkways that take you through the space and let me see if there's anything else there's also in-ground LED strip lights that go along the rear side of those circular AstroTurf areas to provide some nice um ambient light in the evening so you'll see pictures of that on the bottom left corner of the plan

095um yes that is it did the plantings actually provide privacy how what's the tallest plant that might be in front of a bedroom window yes so the the race planted by themselves are 18 inches and then the actual height of the seed mix I believe they get to be about an additional 18 inches tall the mature plant the the tallest plants in this mix will be an additional 18 inches what is the what what's in the mix or what's the mix this is a uh Ron if you zoom into the notes section underneath the Terrace planting plant I have a little list of the plants included in this particular mix but um the name of this mix is Herb and Sedum blend green roof seed and this is sold by the Urban Farmer yeah I

096actually called them to get the actual mix and there isn't somebody there who can tell me what it is right now um this is information I pulled off of their uh their website so um these guys will need a lot of sun so the Sun I'm very I'm concerned about this not getting enough Sun out there that's my first comment my second comment is is um I I don't like the fake grass and it gets extremely hot in the summer it's not anything remotely environmentally sound so I'm wondering what else could be done out there besides fake grass that would be inviting and yet not um I mean I don't think you're gonna have anybody sitting on it so I'm not I'm not sure what the need is to have fake grass why you wouldn't

097just use patio some other kind of patio or something else out there yeah that could totally be a another type of permeable pavement um that could be a you know a crushable um the crushable ground cover something that's tolerant to people walking through it um have you tried using um something like ecograss or ecolon which is mostly fescues uh no I have not I'm gonna look that up right now though and I uh one of them comes from uh I think Prairie Moon I forget what the eco line comes from but I've used the Eco grass I use it a lot actually and um it should I'm I can't imagine this area is going to get a lot of traffic thank you it's really going to be from just the tenants and then their guests

098too I agree so you know be something which you might mow I think it goes to it one of them seeds a little bit in the spring I want to say sometime in May and you might you might mow it high then just to knock off the seed heads you know Shaggy we might wait till it's mature and then mow it and just let it sit out there um but it's a nice it's a nice blend and it will tolerate shade and who did you say the uh the company was was that Prairie Moon Nursery Prairie Moon yeah okay yeah thank you for that I would I would definitely be uh be willing to use that there instead of um artificial turf okay that would be great because I I can hear the comments of

099a couple people in town right now and they find out there's artificial turf up there yeah it was really just selected because um in the off chance it smells like a high traffic area I didn't want anything to get um beat up by foot traffic but no I like that I'll check out the other one from Prairie new Nursery I think that's my friends go grass from Prairie Moon I forget somebody else I know in town used it and I looked it up at one point my sense of the you know the grass piece is that I don't know if anyone really expects to be walking on grass on a green roof you know I'd um I think but what I've seen is that the walking surface or even where these tables are located is

100a perfect paper and then you know the the vegetation is within contains Planters like the court and steel planters that you're proposing um but what it what is the permanent paver that is being proposed is it a a masonry product or that's going to be specified by Ron the architect okay um because I I think something that might might be nice out here is like a bison wood paver um and maybe you don't need the grass that you walk on at all maybe everything is you know the the wood paver gives it the warmth and uh then you let the vegetation stay within the planters that might work too I love that idea what color is that Kevin well there are many different colors I'm um I will let the design team pick but you

101know it's they have light wood colors and like rich dark mahogany colors so um awesome yeah I think a wood paver would would be nice out here and then and then get you know and omit the the low growing grass right well it'd be less maintenance theoretical especially if if I think there's going to be a lot of shade in this space the the solar studies show noon time um the shade patterns and and I I think that um at any other time the Sun is going to be low and we'll have staying a lot of shade so um I think Hardscape might be better for for much of this area so yeah I do know that grass will tolerate a fair amount of shade because it's under a Hemlock that was one of the

102reasons we used it um Julian I'm gonna I'm definitely think that the plant this mixing oven the Planters will not tolerate as much shade as I think is going to be out here I agree yeah no it's interesting that solar plan that Ron has I agree and then the other the other piece that I'm thinking of is um you could you know you could try putting some taller stuff even like a shrub in the middle of these beds and then you know under plant it with you know ground covers and things like that and maybe a few shade flowering things um you know the more native stuff you have the better but there's there's also some stuff that's not native that would tolerate conditions like that and you could do a mix I I aim

103for 70 native on all the stuff that I do and I get pretty close most of the time I was looking at doing 100 native for this just because I thought that that was what was asked for but if I can incorporate some sort of you know non-native species that'd be wonderful for this area up here well I think yeah I think you could do it in both in both places um any chance you could use Birch out in front of the building Birch um those things like sun though that's the thing without adequences without adequate Summit they're just going to flop down yeah so maybe some kind of like you were talking about the taller shrubs you know something like that might be nice um I I just think that it would add a

104little more visual interest out here along the front between the uh the sidewalk and the well also on this on in this these Planters here oh up here too yes yes because that would make it you know that would make it really interesting up there yeah you could I mean I mean collector on the Folia that would tolerate shade aronia two would tolerate shade you know um yeah and then the cluster though yeah Button Bush Maybe Button Bush yeah that could those get big though don't they but they don't have that much soil to grow in so I guess they'd yeah that would be part of the limited factor yeah yeah so just sort of you know I think if you thought about it a little bit more and see if you can come up

105with something that you know would flower and if it flowers mid-season that might even be nicer okay you know because generally hang on a second how you do all um I generally want to do plantings I'll I'll do like you know I have bulbs in the spring they're not native but they everybody loves a good daffodil or two you know because they say I agree and you know and then you can mix other stuff in there um and I think you know I always will advocate for natives but I you know I also see where there's some things that you could put in there both up here and down below in the front where you might you know you might be able to create some interest year round okay so anybody else on the committee

106have something to say about this second floor patio space was that you talking or is that somebody else no I thought we completed the Landscaping I was going to before if I forget I was looking at the plans and I was just wondering the lighting Street lighting and I can see here they have the patio lighting as well is that the pad the landscape lighting you're gonna have on the second floor patio yes yes that is the the in-ground LED strip lighting that's going to be going around the um the rear perimeters of all those um circular seating areas and uh are you planning to have some uh pole lighting also or I don't have anything like that shown on the plan right now but um okay yes and also for the main plan I

107mean since we are on the lighting I see that you have the you know those uh utility poles but I didn't see any uh Street lighting whether it's on your pro on this property or uh the street lighting or pound Street lighting the you know if you have any lighting along the perimeter of the pro uh this uh border oh sorry the fencing like Homer and Alden are the back all around are they planning to have any Street lighting for the parking and along with any Street lighting at Homer and Alden well or will it be just the town lighting down street lights we were planning on just a town lighting for Alden and Homer yeah I mean the polls do you know do you know the height of the street light I mean I

108was just wondering whether it would be uh you know in line with any of the bedrooms or Living Spaces you know um I I may have it on a rendering that's coming up superimposed on the photograph okay that's good well you have you have like signage lighting at the front of the building correct yeah correct do you have any LED lighting out there or bollards out there to uh in the front I said not not in the front we're relying basically on on the building lighting and the street lighting okay yeah we should look at the facade and go over that okay I mean if we were to place uh you know Ballard lighting I would certainly place it along this path and um a lightning designer on the project no we don't I'm just

109curious about the foot candles um you know you're saying that you might have lighting along that path and maybe you need it at the at the Alden home or streetscapes but but for egress paths and you need at least one foot candle so you know we we're gonna need to to see that's provided um or well I can't forget a building permit you need it right I mean our egress you know Lobby egress is here we could certainly have building lighting lighting the path along the sidewalk um this drops you pretty much in front of lighting on Alden Street but no certainly when we engage a lighting designer uh to take a look at that um I would I would anticipate would be looking at some type of pathway lighting here and we'll take a

110look at what Homer and Alden have to offer to see if it's sufficient how do you um all these spaces in the back on the surface so people Park here and then they walk across the parking lot and go in the back entrance well they can either go into the back entrance if of these uh commercial spaces or if it's going into visit or residence or or walking around to the front or or walking through yeah I think you're definitely gonna have some have to have some kind of pathway Lighting in there so people are comfortable to get out of their cars and walk back there okay I'm definitely not suggesting pole lighting in the back but you know something so people can walk around out there and you know and see so um did

111you get your questions answered about the lighting in the front are you just waiting for them to go to the facade so you don't like I'll just go to the facade so we do have uh you know building signage lighting which will light back at the building um I'm showing a gooseneck Style it could be something with LED that's a little different but um the idea being that the signage will be lit presumably you know the buildings while they're open we'll have light coming out of the windows uh these are some renderings of the little washed out I apologize for that but uh the uh those spaces uh just to get a sense of coming through this this door here and and how it would open up uh this will be from the stairway at

112the rear comes and then opens up and then this would be from this angle here sort of an aerial is that new that there's a stair that goes up to that green roof I didn't think you had a stair previously there is from um he had it previously okay right there uh he did go it went straight at one point and then I shifted it over to get you on access and to uh provide some some relief for this uh as I started to develop these apartments is that stereo going to be controlled and it's only accessible to Residents or the space would be available to be used by the community well the the idea is that this is residential private space um the controls would be at the entry doors into the building you

113know there's no gate or anything here so how does how does that um get secured you know it's I don't you know it we I suppose we could find a way to secure it but the intent wasn't to secure it just keep people you know give residents access to it to get to their units and leave and um and have the you know the building hallways themselves secured that um and that I'm sorry that's in the back where that is right let me write here is that the only way to get into the units that are that are have their front door on the green roof that's not the only way to get to them is it you can enter into the building through the elevators okay and then you'll be exiting to get to

114the unit on for these Universe sort of exterior entrance units um this one you would you would be able let me take that back each unit with the exception of I believe it's one as an entrance an internal entrance off of the hallway but does have an entrance onto the Green Space so every unit you'll be able to come in through the lobby use the elevator come in and enter your unit this unit this unit and this unit would be accessed from solely from that act from that green space has that been reviewed by a code consultant or by the billing inspector I in terms of egress I'm just curious if that's compliant well I'll do an egress check on it but the um I mean this width is is 24 feet I believe so

115it would be sufficient to to come out and down through the building you know once you've exited to get to a public way but I'll certainly take a look at it so it's really this became a function of the width of the building versus getting a hallway that would come down it and actually work with these yeah I would just advise to have that check because it's not a matter of distance I think it's a matter of your and you're you're not exiting your unit out into a rated Corridor that gets you to a right-of-way you're making your way across the roof of a building that could potentially be burning below you and is not rated so I I've done this and you know I actually did on a healthcare project and um so I

116know that there's there's code um you know there's the ability to do it created it's a separation of uses so I will I will check that I appreciate that okay um before we leave the top I mean it was brought up a while ago but I wanted to come back to the the pocket park and I just had one comment on that and more of a question actually um the pocket part that is at the entrance from Homer Ave the little triangular one yeah sorry for going all the way back here I just um we left this quickly and I wanted to go back to it um are you proposing the the duo tone colors you said you were going to to take some colors from the historic train station but would it be both

117the light beige color and and the dark the you know the red terracotta you'd be using both of those in the landscape uh yeah I believe in the renderings I'm going to show you I I showed it and I do believe I used a border on on a few of them similar to this okay I'm kind of hesitant to do that I like the idea of using the same pattern to relate back to the train station um I'm just wary of using the same colors and that would that would make it here yeah let's see what it looks like first and yeah sure we've got renderings let's take a look and see what he's got um so in this I um I'm going to zoom in here oops well this this picks up that patterning

118across sort of basically a crosswalk that we've created to separate um you know homework in the parking lot and then it continues and I did not show it as a border here I showed it as a consistent color um along these patios you know as I developed this I could develop it as a border and have dual time but the idea was that um and it really doesn't read well here but to have to have sort of that vocabulary and acknowledgment of the Richardson Building carried in the paving pattern uh just very subtly foreign [Music] things that Julian had selected yeah so I think um this is where both Brendan who's traveling myself are missing trees in here and I really I really hate the fact that these your building has these poles in front

119of it um but I think if you can figure out how to get some trees in here that would be helpful or taller shrubs to help break up the mask because this is this is a a really really big mess it's a big change for this area in terms of the massing so those wires are actually in line with level two and not higher than the roof line of the building they should be down farther is that what you're saying yeah I'm asking the question about where they're actually located because this makes it look like they're high up above the roof line and exactly not would not be impacted by a tree that's even 25 feet high uh let me let me get to a rendering that there we go so this is sort of

120superimposed on a photograph uh this was the original photo and then this is the pocket park and the entrance to the to the back and um we'll see if we have one that has uh this is from Alden Street so you can see these these wires are they do look if there's the same on on Homer then they do look like they're a little above level two I think that's the worst while checking out just to make sure and then you can you know Julian can go from there yeah so here we go here's here's a here's a real poll versus a model poll so you can see that they are quite High actually they're lower going down Alden Street and then down home around they're they're higher and possibly because they're so far apart

121um oh but we will we'll get a height of those okay and what are those trees shown there yeah I'm standing on the other side of the tracks and these are these are on the uh on the track side yeah but you have trees in your rendering is that correct to the left of the building oh this is the uh yeah the candid candidates circus but that's a straight sources is that correct Julian it's not the Ruby correct straight straight uh sources Canada that's a straight species so it's so it's green it's not to be shown as green actually so I was like what is that over there I think I think Ron's showing the um the pink flowers uh as if it was blooming in the spring oh yeah we're showing red leaves too

122sorry it looks like a thunderclub plum like [Music] um so these are the trees that are along that pathway yeah Red Buds Bloom before the leaves come out too so sorry guys yeah so this just sort of puts it in context um this is one of the requests of doing and I normally do these um as a matter of course it just hadn't got to it when we met last um so so as far as the wires go and the telephone poles you know we're dealing with basically the reality of the situation right and the polls are there if they're not going to come down then Julian has more latitude with what he picks out there to grow in there to put in that's correct right right so that you don't get that answer Julian

123so that you can you know you know have a good sense of what space you have to deal with wonderful thank you so but those that's that shows the polls and the lighting is that a light that's a light fixture there that's at the corner of Alden and and Homer correct that's correct and then um this poll is the one that is um at the corner of the uh the little um brick building and then in between of obscurity because I showed my my model poll but I can take a look at the photograph but if you try if you just Chase these wires you can see how how high this actually is along here yeah but do they are they necessarily going to have another light between these two poles I I honestly don't

124know I think we'd have to look at um what the city's plans are as far as what's the documentation they have um I know they're doing road work I'm not sure if they had actually drawings that showed what's going on those polls okay so I think um it would be useful to definitely do some kind of a foot candle study out here because it you know gets dark at four o'clock in the winter and if you've got a a deli or you know somebody who's selling stuff up until eight or ten o'clock at night then it's going to be really dark out in front even with a the lights on I'm not asking to put pole Lighting in I'm just you know let's think about people walking around and you know getting some Bollard or

125some kind of lighting maybe if there's raised Planters there's LED lights on the edges or something I don't know I will definitely engage a lighting designer to to help us work out some of those um some of these issues okay so um what I would like to do is take a second go back to my email for what I had sent out so that I can show you the the color study so could you bear with me one second okay okay so um can you see my screen right now yes it's got Alden Street and Homer Avenue facades on it okay now I've got the new file loaded but it says my screen sharing is paused so probably you'll have to reshare it like click out of this one and then reshare it run [Music]

126okay can you see my screen yes yes okay so we have the elevation materials key um so what I added here was uh just some color palettes potential color palettes for uh trim uh you know feel colors window colors uh window frame colors and things like that so we get a sense of how these things would sort of come to life um in the different scenarios so it's not sort of that that bland gray that I'd shown in the original models I just want to collaborate maybe a darker color and that to help these pop uh with a cream trim color and then um a black window frame and now we get back to more than grays where's the one with the brick so this would be two stories of brick veneer uh run the

127uh the collabers sort of up and over as a frame for it and then this one so that on this one we would have we would have an awning we'd actually have a flat panel sign on the building between each sorry what's the difference between each of the options with the with the brick veneer so you have so type one has the brick it has a brick and collaborate uh has a little more detail on a decorative brackets right um and then we look at a shingle style for the upper story with collaborate on the on the lower two levels uh within our fixed awnings and here we have uh the major base coming out would be that Firehouse style of the board and Baton um and then a recess darker color um collaborate siding

128where where is the brick in this option in the elevator no I'm sorry this is this was just a generic thing so that brick should is not in this option tax that out and then um this one would have a metal panel on the on the recess uh with sort of traditional collaborate on the on the extrusions yeah I think this one makes it matches modern and traditional architectural elements a little too much for me yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna second that comment so you say yeah it mixes too much it's too mix mix I agree with Kevin yeah I don't like the metal panel okay no it's just an option of introducing a more modern sort of style with it um yeah uh this one I the board and bat and I wanted to

129show as because it is such a it is a popular sort of inacular now and um I don't think it's appropriate for this I think it would you know it's it's a style that 10 years from now you may look back at this and say why'd you do that yep I'm gonna agree with that and it makes the building look taller it doesn't make you feel like Latoya uh the shingle style uh you know both are traditional New England um it does create a data line at the top level and lets the sort of the um the first two stories read and then this sort of a combination of the brick and the collaborate on the recesses so you do have sort of a defined feeling of this wall is not three stories high it's

130two stories high just put in the materiality and then the upper sort of clear stories a little lighter is there not is there a Type 4 did I miss that now the uh what I did was when I did these I renumbered them to one two three and four before was two three four five so I'm sorry about that um I just it makes sense I caught myself on that so and the reason this files is is pretty large so I wanted to show it and I sent it to agaro so you would have the larger because when I when I when I send them I have to reduce this the file size and it degrades the images and and the quality so I wanted to give you one that was at a higher resolution

131but um it's just a larger file yeah no problem um so my comments on this would be that for one I would I'd like to see the materials in the actual rendering and and maybe we can select which view we should see that in um because I thank you for putting the the building in the context of of the streetscape in the in the 3D perspectives that you put together and I think they're lacking the actual materiality so it's still difficult to understand how it fits into the context um from a material standpoint um and and so I I'm leaning towards getting an option or or these the three options so I'm scratching out number five if we don't like that one could we get um a perspective rendering of option one two and three

132um and see what those look like in in the context so I would take a view that you produced um maybe from the train tracks I don't know let's look at the 3D views that you have um keep going like maybe maybe this one I don't know what everyone else thinks what do you think Kathy um I want to see it's too far away well it's too far away I mean I feel like the building's too far away I mean we could see it in that and maybe in the one where it shows it up close yeah maybe maybe the one where you don't really see much of the building but you see the context of the train station this the one that's right below I mean I would I would do it in this

133one too the one that's the shield I could zoom in on this so that this you know these two blocks for example are well you know fit the screen when you I have a question for you can you stand on the other side of the street or go down there with somebody else and stand on the yellow line and take this photograph for the context because we almost can't see enough I mean I couldn't get enough of them I'm driving this car so if I was in the right lane looking down the street is that what you're referring to yeah even though I'm I mean I know you're trying to get the Richardson Building in and you actually have the so maybe just even back farther in that parking lot well what I'm trying to

134do is see a little more of your building or keep the Richardson Building and maybe that brick the the last part of that brick building that's going to be your neighbor so we can see them all together because right now the roof line of the Richardson Building well it's useful and the colors of the building are there which makes it useful it blocks a lot of sure so I'll take a few I'll take a view somewhere over here that that that shows the edge of this and and the edge of this and the way the building the way home street kind of bends as it goes right I think that would be helpful for this but that would be interesting because then we see the the two these two neighboring buildings plus whatever you're doing

135on your that could definitely be one of them right Kevin yes I think so and I would do the the full elevation on the previous page just for good measure but we just um sorry we just have a race hand from Terry uh Madam chair I have a question sure coming back to the facade treatments yes Ron could you bring them up please um would you consider basically alternating two two of the treatment let's say the cedar the shingles and the brick rather I hope you're not talking about having one uniform treatment on all five of those facades in other words you have let's say you had two and then next to two you had you had one where you alternated them or you there are two if you take the whole look of the

136whole five in a row you'll see two of them are larger than the other two the two on the end as they get closer to the residential neighborhood or smaller do you want to Accent those differences by treating the facade elevations differently that's my question no I noticed that neither one of you neither you nor Kevin just put my rendered opinion when either of those two were up well I think this is it's like Kevin said it's really difficult to to tell right now um and to see it so we could see that as an option also I guess maybe what we should do then is present the full full range of things and show how we would alternate uh two or more patterns what do you think I I think we'd like to see

137it fully rendered so that we can better comment on it and we'll we'll um we'll allow you to use your design judgment to to alternate the pattern as as as you think is uh is appropriate and then we can comment it on it further from there fair enough thank you my comment on type 1 in addition I I don't think I have right now any modifications other than thank you Terry you know other than making some um alternating schemes my only other comment on number one is that potentially the brick does not need to continue up to level two um that it would just be maintained at level one for the commercial ground floor um and then I I think I'll leave it at that and then see what that looks like in the renderings

138um see can we see both like two floor brick with one I I know what I'm saying in terms of that but I I actually was sort of enjoying the fact that this was two floors of brick unless somebody else wants to weigh in and say I agree we can we could see both yes because I thought that was an interesting idea to make the third floor fade back into the background more perhaps yeah I think that'd be good to see I mean I would opt for the two floor of brick I think one is insufficient there's just not enough of it comments it's not them I'll just show both so that we have a sort of a true sense of it that'd be great thank you I think that would be helpful [Music] um

139are there any other questions um from the committee you went in the committee you have more questions I don't think so I I was going to recommend um running through our previous report because we had highlighted some items that we wanted the applicant to provide answers to and um maybe before we do that we open it up to the public what do you think Kathy and then we come back to this or should or do you want to run through it did you open it up to the public because there's some people have been waiting you know very patiently so George um rakis I know you were speaking earlier and I asked you to wait do you want to make it um I just have a couple of questions sure is the rendering to scale

140this is a rendering to scale uh yes and then on the photographs it's a it's a um it's a function of SketchUp where you can introduce a photograph sure and mail it in can you go to slide five five for me please I think that's uh oh never mind you passed it right here so right here this slide right here it seems that the building is actually sunken down where street level is if you're following the path the street level of the corner going across it looks like it's actually cutting across the first level that's why I asked if it's a scale because the first story on the existing brick building looks like it's probably ending in the middle of the second story in your building just to put a scale perspective on it yeah

141I mean it's it's not a um this is sort of a you can tell the full you can see the photographs how they're it's not a true lot you know one photo it's a it's a montage of photos put together and especially when you look at this site and and how um you know you look at this if you took a photo from here you're picking up part of this thing so for these types of images you sort of you scale it the best you can the the model is to scale it's it's a floor plan scale sure when you close it on a rendering on a photograph that's a perspective like some of the ones at the end you can control it by um in SketchUp they have a feature where you can sort

142of size it and and there's a grid and things like that on this one it's a little more difficult and I mean I don't understand that's what you're referring to it's a little more difficult because you're taking a montage of photographs that are actually at different scales themselves because they're photos I was taking so you know you have the you if you look at the for example on the left side the gas station I literally walk down the tracks in a straight line and took a photo but because that set back a little bit it reads a little off in scale so when you when you kind of weave these things together you do the best you can and it's really a representation and not really a true rendering of as if it was you

143know put onto a photograph that was uh specific to one's one area for example one view I was just asking because in this model it doesn't look like the building's 35 feet tall or 38 feet tall it looks like it's sunk in down and I was just curious is the building going to sit below street level no okay so it's going to be bigger than this I I mean I don't know I'd have to go in and see if I could find a a point to measure from like where would I what would I use as a scale on all of these photographs well the first floor in the existing building that won't be changed you can line that up with your first floor on the top level so that way you can bring it

144all up and superimpose it that way so the building that will stay there and not be demolished will end at the same point where your first floor ends so that way we can get a better perspective of what the scale of these buildings will be comparatively to each other into the existing neighborhood yeah and um my follow-up question uh you mentioned um solar capacity did you go delve any deeper into that how much uh Power the building could generate no no we did not okay uh next the you said you had 35 spots will be accessible to electrical vehicle charging um will those be 240 volt drops with a 50 amp circuit for to accommodate um not supercharger speed but to charge your vehicle overnight or will they be 120 volt drops with a regular

145Battery Plus with a regular plug um that I that I cannot answer for you um if Charlie is if Charlie's on the line and he can answer because he has done it on his other properties uh to make them EV ready will the building owner pay for the charging stations or plugs all right I can't answer that for him okay and then my last question to you is how many spots are reserved for the commercial spaces foreign spots in the on let me get to the one sorry so these spots on the surface are for commercial and how many proposed commercial sites do you have uh we have uh 22. so two approximately two spots or you have 22 commercial spots excuse me commercial build uh portions of the building that's what I meant how

146many businesses could fit theoretically well I mean we we should we indicated uh subdivision lines but you know it's until you have someone who's going to lease a property you really don't know how you're going to carve it up but we have one two three four five spaces shown six I'm sorry six bases shown okay and I just now that you bring this up what is the distance between the sidewalk and the perimeter of the building to the closest point to the closest point I believe we have six foot six okay uh and so the patios you were describing what's the rough area for each patio in front of the doors you were describing uh rough area uh for example this one would be approximately maybe 300 square feet so three by ten yeah about

14730 yeah about 30 by 10. um this one I'm sorry this one's probably about the same this one is probably 150 or 200 square feet okay I'm just for design purposes I was just curious if you put a three foot planter in front of your building how much space is it between the planter and the sidewalk well if you look at the property and sidewalk here you'll see that it changes so um if we put a three foot plant or let's say you can see my cursor right yeah yeah so if you put a three foot planter in this area is that where you're refer to or or down here um on the forward portions not near the doors not near the doors so if you said you're designing like a wall of uh flowers

148or plans I just want to see if someone's if two people are walking on the sidewalk will they come into contact will the plant overgrowth encroach on the sidewalk um I would suspect that we would hold them back so they wouldn't the sidewalks are I believe five feet wide at the narrowest so the they're going to be five feet wide the city sidewalks okay right uh to give you to give you a scale this door is a three foot door if you if you see this give you a sense of how wide that is yeah I was just looking at your other photos where you said there's you know potential for outdoor seating and I just wanted to see the footprint of a table and two chairs and how they would space up correctly in

149that existing space sure and that's all thank you Ron you had that on one of your slides you have the patio seating I know I had it in the other package I'm not sure if I had put it in this one or not um I may have it on a rendering yeah I think you had it on a rendering so there it is is it one view of it right so they this will give you a sense of scale or a table with four chairs sort of you know sort of sticking out a little um it's not it's not you know it's not restaurant seating it's it's designed more for just casual Deli okay thank you okay all right so um do we have other people okay so can you yep uh the next person

150is Mark desoni hey thank you Mark sorry for that how's the road surviving War and Peace on this um how realistic is this picture compare to what's actually going to be great Broken Ground or sight formation not realistic is suspicious George well the footprint is based on the drawings that I that you've seen uh the elevations model is based on the elevations you've seen it's it's a representation it's cartoony it's it's you know it's not it it is what will be built from a footprint perspective whether the plants are going to look like that you know we've had that discussion you know the paving may look if I took a you know a drone photo from here once the building's constructed you know this Paving may look a little lighter for example things like that

151but the actual footprint of the building the model is based off of the off of the drawings okay and it's going to be in the triangle shape I'm going by what I'm seeing this picture in front of me and the back is going to be Limited space for moving around especially for the uh parking and for the interior residence why wasn't security more talk about if it's not going to be any lights in the back well it's not to say there aren't going to be any lights in the back which we haven't shown them but that doesn't mean that we have to we have to meet minimum criteria for foot candles and and security and things like that so it's not it's just that we did not have a lighting designer on board yet and

152the um the small pocket driveway that's coming off of home huh how is that going to be controlled traffic wise bear with me sir so it's it's one way in one way out as you come into the into the parking lot you'll have the ability to turn around without doing a three-point turn as well as for residents that will go into the garage they'll also come out of the garage and they'll use the same entry and exit um the we're discussing putting a uh a blinking light uh similar to what you see on parking garages so as a car pulls up it was actually one of the peer review comments for civil so as a car pulls up this light would activate so that anyone coming off of the light would know that there's a

153a driveway there so won't you be needing a peer-study traffic report for them and I'll leave that to Terry I don't believe we needed one no that no none was required or requested the blinking light was on the garage or on the uh no we would mount it on on you know potentially this utility the utility pole or the one that's right around the corner so that it would have uh you know vehicle exiting or whatever this whatever the nomenclature is but this is a town streak where they accept that they have that there it's a public way and then an extra garage light it's got to be a bit of a warning for people taking the turn off on Main Street to come in because that's how how they get we did downtown right

154on the island that's going to be a wide turn and it's going to be right on top so there's got to be some sort of warning that there's a garage light Lincoln for that reason okay so there's no answer for that I guess I don't understand I don't understand your question no Ron there's two ways of dealing with it as a car is leaving the site and approaching the bend in the driveway heading I'll say for lack of a better direct directional heading north towards Homer Ave there would be a there would be a a a trigger at that Co at that bend when the car passes that bend that would that would signal another uh another uh light or flashing Beacon at the back of the sidewalk on a pole to cause making that

155turn from Main Street onto Homer Ave approaching the driveway would see that blinking and be alerted to an uh to a potential car exiting the driveway that's it that's at least one way of handling there are others but I believe that's the one that deals with where the where the beacons are located on our site and be being paired in such a way as to alert traffic on Homer Ave for my reasons to say that this caused from Main Street downtown that turn it's got to be it's a quick turn if you become Adele onto Homer Ave that it's it's a it's going to be a sharp corner appreciation Mark proceeding East or West um going going towards your site off of down off of Main Streets heading east east that's what we're talking about

156learning traffic making that corner that turn at the pizza's place yes and right there there is a regular regulation traffic like there too right so right there that there's going to be a controlled traffic light and this garage light okay as of what I can see on this this is I have nothing against it but this is a this is a computer rendering of the site right correct all right what are you getting at mark I'm I'm getting that traffic control from downtown east onto Homer two cup more than one car two cars come at the same time and the blinking garage light who sit might think the person coming out from the site using everything where it's going to be churning left or right quickly and not and not really pay attention to the

157coming off East from Mesa with the two traffic where the traffic light is it's going to be a quick break for The Operators from Dogtown East but we're down to homework one other solution okay and this is coming traveling to to Ashland from Route 9 in Framingham it is a very winding road I forget the name of that Main Street that comes in across the brook from the the count the other end of Main Street there are a number of places there are a number of places where they have turns like this on that road and there have been signs posted by the DPW that say caution driveway ahead that's a standard way of dealing with with uh turns like this where there's a driveway opening onto the curve once before you get to the

158corner yeah there's all sorts of ways to deal with it that's all we can tell you and from that way that's uh from Framingham nine that's Badger Road coming toes downtown to Myrtle Street okay that's what you're saying the traffic traffic goes a lot faster on that road than it's going to go around I I see it but and this is a just to me it's it's a shorter turn radius from downtown east Trafficway to the calmer it's it's a quick turn for those traffic and the poop coming out of the garage may not see it or maybe in the pockets are coming on and they're coming off there may not see them I think Mark that there that there's a couple of solutions have been proposed and um I think the people will see

159a lot of construction for a good year down here before you know we even get people in the building so I think at that point people will be used to going a little more slowly hopefully yeah hopefully and courteous both ways well we can always hope right okay well I'll chop off that and do you have any other comments yes yes I do I go I got one that it's a futuristic question I asked the two other boys but I'm not going to ask I'm going to ask in a different way to to both the uh boards and and the committee here once you get through these Marathon meetings and talking and whatever what's going on and positive instruct each other what to do and how the big two-way street come compartments what's the goals

160and I want this from the from the the uh the Builders first the developers first I want this first what's the goal that you're hoping to meet down the road with this then after I want to have design answer the same question in that same way he wants to go because there's been a lot of talk over two hours for this so this got to be a goal being set there's going to be some sort of sight down the end of the tunnel what is it the developer first okay so Mark I think you've seen this presentation yes okay so we're working out the final goal which is there's going to be a building here and we're working out what what it should look and feel like and we're discussing a whole bunch of elements

161of it and none of them are are totally cast in stone right now so I think that is the goal I don't think there's a an additional goal per se well there wouldn't be a long bit of term that I could think of it Marathon talkins about everything if it wasn't a success story that wants to be formal to it so the developers what is your success story to follow all these meetings I mean I mean I'll answer that as best I can as an architect my success story is that um the city look favorable on this that people walk by it and feel like it's always been there that there's a level of comfort that it adds to your to your downtown to your to your community and that it houses residents that will

162add benefit to your to your town I I I I I don't understand other than that what what you're really looking for are you looking just for houses or for mixed residential business what about life it's about it's about enriching your town your town and and producing the best product that we can possibly produce in conjunction with advice from people that that you you know that live in your town and that that take the lead on on these types of things and to work with them and listen to them and add our you know what what my feeling as an architect and and I have to defend it and and hopefully they agree with it and if not then we look at it and we we revise it and that's that's why you get a

163marathon meeting I mean this is a process the way the process should work okay all right Design's hard you know and and this is a very complicated site go ahead go ahead okay so I think that I'm gonna Echo what Ron said for the committee right now and I think that we've got other people on this call with their hands raised and it's quarter to ten and we still haven't finished discussing this and heard all the public input so I'd like to let everybody else talk about this the the rashes in our end is positively great yeah I'll be positive well Madam chair the developer has his hand up I think he'd like to answer Mr um desoni's question okay okay let me in my process and he can answer and then I'll I'll be

164quiet after great because positive and I guarantee it oh I think he left I think we lost someone okay um let me finish that we finished Carly answer the question please he's the owner of the project let him answer the question okay okay okay Charlie go ahead Charlie got your hand up I don't know what happened to him would all right I don't know I guess we'll just move on Madam chair sorry for the interruption I did I'll win positively it was said and beginning brother sheer person that you'd be going so far and then once the committee and developer cash out everything there'd be time for public comments he did volunteer to me Mark that it would take about a year from the time obstruction construction began to occupancy if that's your question there's

165the answer that's is that the answer and this ending I'm being positive I'm being if it's Communications are all good but when you say you're gonna start off with talking to each other and you have no time limits it's just making sure that you don't forget citizens that are listening only to get their questions and information out there thank you thank you okay so I I see Alvaro who's next on your list it will be John gone Freddy okay Joan go ahead yes can you hear me yes we can thank you okay thank you um I'm on the historic commission just full full disclosure um but I'm speaking as a private citizen um I just have a couple of comments to make I I would I would like to see separate buildings and maintain two

166historic buildings on the site I also missed the last meeting where I believe you discussed the blasting and um the below ground parking and I am definitely opposed to below ground parking and I hope the town changes puts in a some type of a bylaw that that prohibits it in the future and having fed all of that the George I believe um talked about different materials on the different sections as if they were separate buildings and I I have a place in Falmouth and I can tell you the downtown Falmouth that's kind of what they've done it's probably just kind of built up that way over time but it gives you a much more of a village feeling and I I would like to see a little more of that so those are my comments

167thank you so I have a question for you about that comment though that in downtown Falmouth the buildings are separated some are and some aren't um some of them are some some of them are separated and some of them are to our are built together probably over time I don't think they were all built at once but they are connected and they have different facades different colors different fronts um and they're not they're not just this big imposing building I like some of the colors in the brick building the brick and you know putting the brick in the back with the clapboard or the shingles at the top I think those those are nice mixes I just think that if they were different on the different buildings that it would it would break it up

168better okay thank you thank you anybody else Avro yes we have one more um Can race he's from Charlie samudo um I know you're a mute Charlie I don't know if there's just maybe like some faults I don't know he's got his hand up but I don't know Charlie are you there you know how to reach him on the phone and ask him if he wants to make a comment right that's how I did uh last time let me try again okay thank you you're very welcome hold on so Ron I guess this might be a question for you and Rick um well we're waiting to see if we can find Charlie and if he has something to tell us um I've talked to several people in town they tell me the water table is

169really high in this area it's like high all over downtown apparently so I'm just curious what your plan is for the underground garage and uh and if you find a lot of water in there you're gonna have to keep pumping in that area we're expecting to get some boring information tomorrow on that so we don't have the exact information but it's forthcoming okay um I have one more quick question really fast wait who's asking George George okay go ahead will any public funds be used to build us I would say the answer to that would be no thank you Madam chair apparently had difficulty on muting his uh microphone I see there in the box that it looks like that is he Charlie should be able to speak now Charlie are you there Charlie I

170can't see him on this oh he's down you're down the lower end down there next to Joan and Below bill on my screen jolly Charlie if you want to speak go ahead all right I guess we've done the best we can I apologize for the uh for the break in the action sir and Alvaro did I just see somebody else's hand up uh no that was everybody okay I thought I saw something flash by and then disappear again okay um Kevin I don't know if how you've what you think about that pocket park at the front next to the small brick buildings but I think I want to see that I want to see a better rendering of that and how that would feel in there to sit in there yeah I do want to

171see a rendering of the horizontal paver surface um I kind of like this seating area although it only has one bench under it so it kind of [Music] closed my eyes thinking to myself if I just keep breathing I don't know who we're hearing here uh it's coming from Charlie I don't know if Charlie can you speak now can you hear me yes well we can I just figured out how to do this computer thing so I just so you know the Run can you go to the screen with the pocket pack against the old original building because we can just hear that right now thank you so so the older the the existing building that's there we you know down the road we're hoping maybe a coffee shop will go in there so we'd

172like to put a door on the side of the building and access that little pocket pot the triangle pocket park yeah show a much better representation of that and I want to see what I actually want to see what it would look like if you're sitting there so that door would be the store you're showing on the left yeah well you know we don't have any plan for that right now but down the road we'd like to remodel that building and open up the building in the front put bigger windows and also put some windows in a door on the side are you talking about the train station Charlie no the the where the um the single story building the original building that we're not going to touch is a pizza place and two barber

173shops in it oh the pizza place he's talking about the pizza place building yeah there's two hair places and a on a pizza place in there yeah the pocket pack is right against that building Terry yeah I see it that doorway is coming from the from the brick building I see it what you're talking about now Charlie okay so I think would like to put something in that building later on that would you know open up that whole area and you know be the Gateway for our builds and to allow people to come in okay so I think you should show that in a rendering and I'm curious about the height of the plantings out there especially now that you're talking about this relative all of this because based on what I looked at for

174the current planting plan for this area I don't have a great feeling of separation from the driveway sitting in there so it doesn't feel comfortable to me so in particular I'm thinking about Shrubbery along that driveway Edge and a mix of things so they'd be flowering at different times um that would tolerate the salt and the Heat things like that but something that would sort of landscape listen yeah I think something that would look you know think about like sitting out there in mid-summer and you might have a wall of greenery where obviously in the winter the leaves are going to be gone you might not necessarily have the wall of greenery it could even be really tall grass but you've only got one layer of thickness there and I realize it's a little tiny

175Park so I'm just trying to see if you guys can be a little more creative about it um and figure a couple of things out in there I mean maybe you could could uh get a couple of trees in there somewhere smaller trees or taller bushes and we'll give you a better sense of scale both now for your this additional purpose I think you ought to show something that shows whatever that whatever you're thinking it is Charlie to Stephen off the top of your head what what that that side entrance coming out of that building might look like yeah so I think we should let the landscape architect come up with something and well I think you guys should give them some direction on the side of that building so we can see what it

176might eventually totally look like there well I think it would be nice to have it a little open as well because if people are going to go to the new businesses in the new building and then they can see across to that building as well to see that there's life in that building yeah absolutely I think that's a nice idea I just want to see what it looks like what you think it might you know give us an idea here's a here's our you know a guess at it yeah Roberta guessing excellent okay um anybody else have comments from design review okay right now I'm good thank you anybody else excellent thank you what do you think Kevin are you good I I am good okay so do we have open items from the last

177report who is that do we have open items from the last report we sent over to the planning board someone else who's talking um that's what I'm looking at right now um one comment we didn't touch on yet was to provide more information on house on sorry on how storm water is treated yeah they still owe that to us Rick Salvo can you answer that yeah so the um just really quick and it's going to become by way of report in our plan in our uh peer review responses but basically the um the storm water from the parking lot is captured in a deep sump catch Basin which discharges to a water quality Inlet which has a TSS removal rate of over 85 percent which then will discharge into a subsurface infiltration facility uh the

178roof of the building also goes into the same subsurface infiltration facility so that'll reduce um the rate of storm water runoff leaving the site significantly it will reduce the volume of storm water leaving the site and promote groundwater recharge I think there's a zero groundwater leaving the site and Ashland isn't there zero groundwater no sorry Zero Storm water leaving the site no because I mean that would be an impossible standard to attain you know if you're on the side of a hill you know water's always going to flow downhill just required to reduce the um the rate at which stormwater leaves the site okay yeah I think I'd be interested in really interested in that and also this information about the water table yeah that's what we're waiting for to be able to finish our

179report off and and resubmit which we should have tomorrow okay what about the soil contamination reports that you mentioned on the walkthrough and I've never heard anything else about them again because my understanding talking to now multiple people have lived in Ashland for a really long time or their entire lives is that there used to be a school bus depot back behind in this whole site so you know they were fueling buses and things like that back there I think Charlie's because you know Charlie's probably has the I don't it wasn't me that told you it was that there was any contamination issues I wasn't aware of any contamination issues so like I let Charlie answer that Charlie Charlie yeah yeah so we had Ava 21e report done when we bought the property and uh

180there was no contamination in the soil the bank wouldn't give us financing unless we had that survey done does the town have a copy of it um I don't think so I don't know I mean I don't think we ever had to give it to him but we we definitely had to do it for the bank they wouldn't give us finance and what the without it okay so I'm gonna keep going yes please so signage um I think we understand that the signage for the commercial will be located in each of the recesses above the um the entry doors at the patio spaces um but we were looking for a general indication of Residential Building signage is would that be located on the building or would there be a sign with the name of the

181residential complex somewhere in the site well the entrance has we'll have signage as you can see here uh the style and font and things like that I just I just showed a generic but yeah the idea is that that primary entrance and the one around the corner would have signage indicating that it is whatever the name that Charlie chooses for the building uh residences okay so that is that also an entry into a vestibule that serves yet it serves three entrances one is to the residential and then two is into the commercial I'm looking at the plan yeah that's correct so in that zone there might be signage for for both the two commercial spaces and the residential that's correct so there could be signage on the wall of the glass here and signage on

182the wall and then this leads to the residential Lobby but we could have we could have basically have three signs indicating you know which door leads to what and then they'll be signage on this space specifically for the residential Lobby and you know I'll sign it on the front for the various commercial entities out there that's correct so along these faces will be signage panels that will fit into the style and uh you know whether it's a consistent font or whether it's just a size that that is consistent and then for the main building from Homer we'll have signage indicating that it's 49 you know home residences or whatever Charlie choose to name it and then once you're in this Lobby then you know you could have a sign indicating what these commercial spaces are

183and then just take you into the lobby you wouldn't be able to access all those commercial spaces from inside there you'd have to go outside to get at them is that correct could you be watching commercial spaces to do that you don't show a hallway right so when you walked in when you walked in this door this would not take you you're not directly in a commercial space you're in basically a vestibule there are doors that multiple doors for this commercial multiple doors for this commercial uh this commercial would have you know one door and then one door back here um so that unit on Alden Street only has one door way over on the right um yeah as it's shown here I mean if this if this line were here in these spaces were

184combined for example then that would have two doors I mean until until we have you know at least an indication of how this space will be leased these are these lines are basically a best guess but there are multiple entrances where we could put them whether this has one or two to be determined on how this space gets leased out okay because every commercial entity has to have at least two entrances right or two ways to get in and out I mean this back corridor which will also be an entrance in from this parking so if if you have the type of facility that you know allows for a front and back door for example then you could have that but it can serve as a second means of egress how soon do you think

185you're going to know who's going in there uh that's a Charlie question uh can you hear me yes so Dr Reynolds has been telling me that there's a dance in school that wants to take the this case and they'd probably take the whole first floor but that was a while ago when I don't know what the current environment is with the school and you know we we just don't know even on on Street that's been done for over a year and a half we still don't have the commercial spaces rented right so it's just a waiting game What's the total the total is this one the seven what is that 7 800 right 7820 that's the total space of all these spaces were rented by one entity I'll bust the 725 on the left right

186right but that would be that was a separate space so this way right if this was rented to for example the dance studio to be about 7 800 square feet okay um it seems to me that we might not need or sorry you might not need the residential signage at home or just because so you enter into this vestibule and then you have to go outside to get to the main residential Lobby which was at the really at the back of the building so um I know this will all get flushed out but I would I would anticipate that signage might only be required somewhere on this space or I'm not sure we can talk about that more but um it seems like you end up just going through the building to get there if

187you're a resident yeah we'll probably just have the address number on the space for now yeah okay um other items we had on our report that you were looking at um Kathy you touched on this already the constructability of the excavation for the parking garage um Kevin sorry before you continue There is a hand race if from the public so Helen if you want to meet yourself and you want to let us know hi yeah sorry I didn't um ask this question during the public comments section but I I did just uh want to ask because you were speaking about uh people who are wanting to rent out the spaces and the timeline with that um and I'm a little bit curious because you haven't gone before the historic commission and you have to Historic

188building sitting on that site and if those get deemed historic which one's built in 1840 and one bill one built in 1900 would would get a historic significance uh determination um I'm just wondering what you what your time frame is and what you plan to do about that so Terry what's the time frame if it's deemed historic uh demolition delay but uh demolition bylaw Builder yeah I thought we looked into the to the houses being historic and there wasn't a problem with that but I don't know who you asked who did you ask I I believe Terry did some research on that yeah I don't know where the research came from but Ashland has a bylaw if once you apply for your demolition permit you will automatically be given a um a hearing before the

189historic commission uh to determine whether those buildings are indeed historic and just by the the dates that they are built 1840 and 1900 they would be just they would be determined as historic and uh there's a one-year demolition bylaw delect so it will take us time to develop the construction plans and um get a lot of infrastructure in place so excuse me let me let me set the record straight here we've looked at we have not filed for demolition permit with the historic commission we want to go through the process first to see if this project is viable once that's established we will then go to the historic commission if they put away I just was asking because you were talking about having tenants who were sort it sounded like you were talking about having

190tenants who were sort of waiting in the wings and I was wondering about that one year delay if you had factored it in we'll have to we'll deal with that once we get the historic commission and they determine whether or not the properties are preferably preserved we haven't passed that threshold yet we're trying to get through right now design review and ultimately the planning board okay thank you thanks Helen I'll continue on okay so Alvaro are there any other members from the public with raised hands right now no okay great Kathy I'm sorry I want to bring some up which I couldn't talk about earlier that you brought up was the um the patrogen stations so what we've done in the other building is we wired every single packing spot for the residents so if

191they have a electric car they just got a hook up right to the this uh Outlet in that parking spot that they can hook up right to that outlet well it's a a wire not actually an outlet because each car requires a different setting I thought there was only two or three what's that I thought there were only two or three different charger types yeah but for us to go buy charges for every spot we wouldn't know so what we what we did on Pond Street is every single packing spot has a has a y already for an electric charger and we're going to do the same for this here Okay so I know that there are public charging stations a town hall the municipal parking lot and around in other places I've seen them

192in other parking lots so somebody's come up with some sort of um you know manufacturer and they put the thing out there and if your car fits it great if it doesn't oh well and I know because it's been on and off talked about in the news that um somebody some American manufacturer has gone to Tesla's charging units and their Hardware so that they're um because Tesla has the most charging space stations up across the country apparently for their vehicles so I think when we were asking about them being you know how many of those spaces you'd actually have the public ones or the residential ones would actually have be ready to go not just ready but that actually have the charging units there so people could plug in that was that that's a real

193question where we're very interested in that because we have a I think we have a net zero in 2040 um goal for Ashland and that would go a long way towards helping it so who who would pay for the if I put a charging station outside who would pay for the electricity for it I don't know how that works Charlie because I don't have an electric vehicle right now I know well no some places you have to pay just like you have to pay to park and you stick your card in there it used to be your dime or your quarter and now you stick a card in there um so I'm assuming that they work on something like that and I know that some of them are free because they were trying to get

194people to adopt the technology I know Tesla if you give Tesla a parking space I don't know about a project this small but in the larger scale projects they'll put three Chargers in that the public can use but I mean we can look into that but every unit inside the garage will be wired so each person so we run a wire from each parking spot all the way up to that unit that belongs to that parking spot so that they if they have an electric car they're paying for their electricity but okay that makes sense that's fair hey Kathy we have one more hand race um so okay hold on a second Alvaro if you would so Charlie I think it'd be nice if you looked into that and let us know what you find

195out okay great thank you okay uh go ahead Alvaro yep church you can go hitting on me yourself so um the question was whether you're gonna have a 120 drop or a 240 drop and you've answered it you're probably gonna have it one 20 drop uh every election excuse me oh we do 240 drops for every packing spot oh okay so every electric vehicle comes with all the necessary adapters to plug into whatever they need to and as of last three months ago uh Tesla has become has gotten together with Ford and Dodge to standardize their charging systems and Hyundai and the Germans have gotten together to standardize so in the next three years there there will probably be only two different variants of the charging system my actual question when I asked this was

196if you do have 35 spots are you will you um have you calculated the electrical load on the building and whether or not it as is actually sustainable will the building have a backup power source well the solar panels charge a backup power source or will you pull power from the grid so we'd be pulling power from the grid the other problem we have with this building is with the the roof style that the town is making us go with it limits us to the number of solar panels we can use on a flat a flat roof building we could fill the whole building up with solar panels but because this has a hip roof a Gable um you don't want to the town doesn't want to see solar panels on the front of the

197building so we're only we're only going to be able to put so many solar panels towards the back of the building and that'll probably generate enough power for us to run the common areas in the elevator have you considered putting a solar power awning over the parking spots um no because you can use the square footage on your parking lot and then use the solar power solar panels as a dual purpose awning cover and uh also a power generation system so the problem we have with that is the fire department wants to be able to run um the large-scale fire trucks through the the driveway so it wouldn't really work to cover the whole parking lot like that when you made your fire plan did you in take into account that there'd be cars in

198the parking lot when there is a possible emergency well the building's fully sprinkled so I saw your fire plan and I was just asking if that was taken into consideration so the the fire the the guy this is the design the fire system they calculate all that out and take that in consideration on the size of the water pipes that run through the building to feed the sprinkler heads excuse me I think George is talking about canopies um probably in Newton Newton City Library that parking lot and various other parking lots public parking lots across the city of Newton have all been converted the ones at the high school those um we have designed this with a 24 foot aisle width which should not impede um fire trucks so it is possible for us to

199put canopies there the question is does it work for you that's really yeah it'll be too small by the the cost to build a canopy to do the solar it's it won't there's not that much parking spots there okay every every little bit adds up doesn't it Charlie I mean I'm looking at this that I forgot if I gotta spend a hundred thousand dollars on a canopy to get fifty dollars a a month for electricity it doesn't work out whereas if we had a flat roof on the whole building and we filled it if you look at at 12 um Pond Street we've got 300 solar panels on the roof of that building on those builds in here we'll be lucky if we can get 50. I have we haven't had the engineer design it

200yet but it's you know we'll see what he comes up with for a design I we just installed 800 solar panels on all of our buildings and believe me if I could do more solar panels I would because it benefits the property but to build the canopy just for solar panels would have to be a whole steel structure thing it would it wouldn't be feasible to do if the if you would allow me to put a flat roof on the building I'll fill the whole that whole build of what solar panels yeah I'm pretty sure the planning board isn't going to let you do that right yeah that's the problem that requires a special permit we try to avoid that yeah cost by special permit but did you ever do a drawing that shows it

201I'm just curious did you ever consider drawing a flat roof not even if we did a fake hip roof we could have we could fill the whole roof with solar panels but because of zoning it doesn't allow for it the downtown Ashland District set of regulations it's an overlay District when that was created there was no thought given to the ability to flat roofs clearly they discover if you look at the design regulations they discourage flat roofs they require a special permit for flat roofs whereas on a this property this building we're doing by right and so that tells you a lot about how they feel felt about flat roofs that's because I think they weren't thinking about solar at the time exactly that's exactly right Kathy so Terry going back to what Kevin just

202said about the fake hip roof because I know you did that somebody did that down there maybe that's 128 main well we did it on Pond Street as well okay so how much would that change the building sorry Ron if you put flat hip roofs up here and and at would that give you enough to add more solar panels to start making it worthwhile or more worthwhile that we could if that if that roof was flat we'd probably put 500 solar pins maybe more on that building Kathy Charlie's talking about a completely flat roof a three-story flat roof buildings you're not talking about with Dormers Gable ends none of that okay well it's just that's not in the Stream of Consciousness yeah that's not going to fly that's why I was talking about the the

203other item that Kevin has suggested which was doing something a little different where there's a I didn't say that Kathy so the Mansion would be essentially it would be built as a three-dimensional flat roof box and then you add Outriggers on the perimeter to create that mansard look you have one of those fake manside buildings already in the downtown yeah looks like crap excuse me it does not look authentic and I'm sure you if you look at it you'd say you'd agree it doesn't look authentic New England no it looks more like New York exactly um um okay so I know I asked way back when at the outset of this project solar shingles oh so the solar shingles aren't they're not proven yet they're not um I heard I heard Harvey roofing materials is

204selling them so they might be selling them but they don't work good Tesla doesn't offer them right now outside of their current existing projects in in Tesla actually makes the worst solar panels out there they catch on fire and there's all kinds of problems Tesla does it make solar panels they buy it from LG Panasonic I work for Tesla I'm one of their Engineers so yeah I mean they make the roofs and the roofs the shingles don't catch on fire they're hail and weatherproof you know yeah so I I know firsthand okay I believe me I I if they if they stop making them so they work I'll use them all over the place I don't care all my buildings have solar I'm all about solar I have all our buildings are very uh height

205the highest energy rating that they can be we spray foam all our buildings we go above and beyond to get the highest ratings from the the hers rating company we we have that comes out and puts below a door tests on our building and checks out windows and all that stuff Charlie be careful they're going to be after you to do passive house which is the which is the maximum standard yeah big article today about the the passive house uh 800 unit complex in Newton on Falls it start that starts a good conversation Terry because the new stretch code requires essentially passive house standard yeah we have to we have to be thinking about this it's base code in in Ashland because they've adopted the stretch code so I'm gonna urge you guys to think

206about the shingles again the solar shingles see if you can ask around see if you might get a deal from somebody to put them on there to see if they work properly we can put solar panels on the back of the roof because no one's going to see it from the street but that that's about it I know you don't want to see them on the front of the building or maybe we should put them on the front of the building so it encourages the rest of the town to put solar on their roofs yeah I'm not sure why you think they can't go on the front of the building did someone tell you that I I thought Terry we told that they didn't want to see the solar panels from the street Kathy you

207can't seriously think the planning board would approve solar panels on the face of the of the building on the roof side of the building faces the street I mean that that that's the single biggest pushback to putting solar panels on old houses is what they look like from the street some people don't care but most people do well isn't this facing north anyway it is yeah they face North you're right uh Kevin they do what is the pitch on on that high roof is it like uh four four and twelve on what the um the Gable or these sheds well the roof that would potentially have solar panels this roof here what is 412 pitch on the sheds yeah if you give me permission to put solar panels on I'll do the whole building uh

208well I can't give you permission to put it on because we don't make your final decision but um I think um they know that the sustainability committee well I was very interested in getting them up there and I and I would urge you again Charlie to see if you can think about solar shingles because uh you know see if somebody's you know talked to them say look I know these things don't work properly right now are you are they going to be ready to go up on my building and will they work properly and you know so if I know we were gonna get in deep into solar that I have my I have an engineer that works in MIT that designs all our solar he builds cities in Dubai and uh um he goes

209to India it goes all over the world and builds cities that they drink rain water and toilet water and you know builds all these solar farms and stuff right so he's the one that designs all my buildings and he's uh he actually when we permitted Pond Street he came to the meeting and spoke in front of the board for that one if I mean when we go back in front of the the planning board we can I can have him come and speak on that board well I'm just gonna you know I just think you need to think about it because I know that the sustainability committee is very interested in in getting to Net Zero and they've come and talked to us about it and then I I think you know you should really

210think about it I'll look into it but I know in the past when I did the roof shingles weren't reliable enough yeah well the last when I saw that the Harvey had them for sales well over a year ago so I'm hoping that the pasta smell test if you will and that they work properly so that was an alternative to Tesla because I knew Tesla had problems at the time I'll take a look at it that'd be great thank you all right Kevin I'm just gonna say I would crunch the numbers too early on the solar canopy too just to to put that option to bed just so the problem with the solar canopy is the structural engineering of the thing would be so much it would have to be so strong to hold the

211snow loads and all that stuff for that small space it wouldn't be worth it in my mind without like even I could tell just by looking at it you know what a rough idea how much it's going to cost to build the structure for that thing where the roof of the building's already built and designed for the snow load so it's easier just to throw them on a roof and I I have no problem filling that whole building again with snow panels uh solar panels if they allow us to do it yeah I mean the solar canopies are becoming more um typical in parking lots and so they can be done with a snow load they just yeah they might be expensive it's that it's the cost of the structure they name it the cost

212of the solar pins right right but we we might be able to do the the whole building except for just the Homer Ave front of the building so I'll have my solar engineer take a look at this roof and design something great thank you yeah I don't whatever that was in the background we couldn't hear it so Charlie you've got to turn off your mic when you're done please um do we have anybody else with a raised hand no at this moment we don't have anybody else thank you anybody else on the committee with comments okay I'm gonna do a last call we don't have any more comments I think we're going to close the hearing can I get a vote to that effect a motion to that effect excuse me 10 30. and motion

213to close the hearing for uh 9-49 Homer Ave 9-47 Omar app okay I'll second that all those in favor Kevin Modi Kathy Rooney I bill you still here no he is nope no he isn't okay all right so unanimous all right thank you everybody very much sure what happens actually you'll make a recommendation to the board of how does that work we're gonna go through our report I don't know how much of it will get done tonight um and we will fill in all the comments and the questions we have um and then um we're going to send it off to the planning board Okay so we've been having a lot of meetings we um actually just sent a letter um our committee just sent a letter to the planning board um asking about um

214our brain is fried right now um getting some environmental impact statements from this site for the site and for the building because of the proximity of the railroad the Richardson Building and the gas station across the street so we're a little concerned about how this is going to work um the construction part is going to work down here I thought that these projects require construction management plan which is pretty typical for all such development yes that's good typically it covers things like dust control testing Road and control um you know cleaning keeping the streets clean uh deliveries staging of staging of materials all of that containing construction management plan right well you're within 100 feet of a railroad here so I think there might be some additional things you have to do um I don't

215know much about it but somebody brought it to our attention at the last meeting and so who who is at the planning boy that oversees that kind of thing um well we wrote the letter to the planning board because we're a subcommittee of them and so I'm assuming that the that the planning board has something to do with it the building inspector and I don't know who else Terry honestly an environmental impaction for it um what is that what what is a report supposed to assess ment developmental plan it's about the vibrations of all the all the all of what you're going to be doing in the ground and the vibration of the so the land 100 feet from the railroad station is extremely settled because of the vibration so you're opening it back up

216and what's that gonna do city of Newton is about to adopt a vibration Monitor and control system of ordinance which arose as a result of them putting a standard condition in our in every special permit regardless of the situation requiring surveys Beyond a certain you know distance then they basically ran and follow that because it was the way they had applied it it would have meant to every demo payment every time somebody digs a hole so they've established a system whereby a quality a licensed um vibration control person has to present a report to the permit granting Authority saying it if a survey is required or it's not required and if it's required for whatever distance uh is required from the site that's the most current information I have about how those things work who

217um who manages that what department manages that in Newton well the first thing is the city council the special perimet County Authority and so the planet and they have extensive planning stuff I don't believe me more than 20 people um so they uh they fashion these amendments which they did for this particular case and they presented it to the land to the land use committee it's not going to be presented to zoning and planning committee and eventually it'll be I expect it'll be adopted by uh sometime in September who monitors it it's essentially when a special permit is filed and the plans are submitted one of the things they review uh when they go through the process of zoning design review site plan and at the end when they are putting together the council order

218they then deal with things like well is there a ledge on the site if that means it could be blasting they assess it based upon what information comes out as a result of the presentation and the questions that are asked and answered during the hearing public hearing process so in essence the city council monitors up to a certain point and makes a determination as to whether this is required or not and then it's it's monitored by both the planning department who has to sign off on any building permit before it goes to inspectional Services that's how it works okay so it's a planning department not a land use Department well yeah because the planning department of paid staff City councilors are paid but they're part-time elected right I'd like to select persons okay okay well

219that sounds pretty interesting thank you you're very welcome okay so I think we're um what's up with you guys tonight and thank you so much to each and every one of you for all your hard work on this so far in your presentation to point to date and um we'll uh you know as soon as we get the report filed we'll get it it'll get to you okay thank you I appreciate your time you're checking to to get this far likewise thank you very much thank you thank you sleep well yes you too Okay so it's 20 to 11. do you want to try to work on the report now or do you want to try to hold another meeting next week and work on it um what do you think committee I think we're

220not going to finish it tonight so maybe yeah maybe we should look at it fresh I took extensive notes on on what we might add to the report we just have to compile it and agree on each item that we're putting in I think we need to hold another meeting to do that okay great and I will I've got I think enough notes to do minutes um so what we might be looking at those also next time do you guys know what day will you guys be meeting because next Thursday there is planning board meeting so they will be using the zoom link um so I can if you guys give me a heads up I can try to look for another Zoom link that you could be used or another date I would like

221to try it for Tuesday I I think it'd be great to get the report to the planning board before they meet are they they're meeting about this project on Thursday they have it on their agenda for next Thursday yeah um Tuesday um I could also do Monday if we want to do it sooner than later before Monday I don't think it will be feasible because we would have to send the agenda today right yeah so 2-0 Wednesday yeah so Tuesday would be the earliest which means I have to get out an agenda first thing tomorrow morning correct yes okay um ojwala can you do that which would be the eighth yes yes okay so I think what we'll do is is do that um and we will do the rest of the minutes I think

222then unless you wanna we want to go through I could put an agenda Kathy and send it to you like first thing in the morning following the uh agenda you had today and just kind of changing the public hearing rather to say discussion of public hearing 949 and if you think it's fine then we can get it posted as soon as tomorrow morning okay why don't you do that and I would we definitely have minutes to come up there first um that'd be great thank you Alvaro yep be helpful um and just be sure to send back the dot doc so we can just send it to the entire committee so that way whoever's taking notes can I just basically take it into the agenda and then I change it okay easier than trying to

223cut and paste from PDF back into word and never formats properly um and also just for a time frame kind of question do you guys think that the next meeting that this team will be meeting with you would it be trying to look at the materiality or would it be more of a soon meeting just looking at renderings and plans well they're definitely we want to look at Material materialities right Kevin yeah but I think I think we need to look at the renderings first so I was actually going to suggest to see the renderings and the options that we talked about them presenting and then at that meeting we would request that they put a box a box of physical samples together for us to review and um it's they either deliver that to

224town hall and we can review it there or we have a meeting with them and they can present them to us but I think Kathy you and I talked about this I think I think we should have possibly a an in-person meeting with the applicant to hold some samples in our hands so maybe that's not the next meeting with them but the one after right it's kind of what I'm thinking I don't think it can be the next one okay are we with we're not far enough along yet we're getting we're getting farther but we're not far enough along that yeah yeah I was just gonna ask are we within the time frame within the six 60 days how does how does that work again should we be working I don't think so because they

225have uh send the extensions like Terry has been very problem sending the extensions needed so I think that we are good until the end of August if my memory is not like we have to finalize our reports and be done discussing the project by the end of August I'll double check tomorrow Kevin I'm not sure if he's by the end of August because I wasn't here when the hearing started yeah um itself but I'll double check and let you guys know my sorry my comment about that in part Alvarez we didn't start seeing this project soon enough which I know that Terry was asking when we did the walk through way back when we should have been seeing this way back when they're probably going to need time to do this if they get you

226a continuation request tomorrow I'm not entirely sure how it works but I would imagine they would want to continue to August 24th at at the earliest yeah yeah because if they're meeting next week with the planning board they definitely have a continuance um farther out correct yeah I think so because probably like next Thursday they will just be able to do so much you know like from this meeting so probably they will be presenting the same set of information okay my only suggestion when they do the rendering and the cropping just make sure the first floor of the building lines up with the first floor of the other buildings because it seems like they reduced the side of the size of the building by 25 um when I asked him to point that out the

227first floors weren't even with each other I'm just bringing this up as the scale of the actual building they will put up it looks smaller than it actually is because it wasn't equal to the surrounding buildings yeah the the point is well taken and um we've asked for that previously we always request things to be in scale and to be accurate it's just a matter of you know we can't actually do the work but we we can do um our due diligence in trying to confirm that it's accurate um so I but we'll keep pushing for that yeah I I don't know this is my first time listening to what they had to say and I do agree with Mark about security and lighting and having an open entrance I just didn't want to reiterate

228that point because of the second floor has access to apartments and it's ground level and it's not open to public eyes so someone could go up those stairs if it's not secure and then enter an apartment and rob somebody and I totally agreed with Mark on that point where it seems that that is an afterthought if someone's hanging out in outside of a patio and you're trying to sleep like does the noise ordinance kick in where you're like oh someone's having a party at the patio or what if they don't live there it's it's just I understood what Mark was saying and I do agree with him that security and curfews need to be held in a high standard especially when your front door is outside a theoretical Park yep thank you yeah that's going

229to be something I think the building manager and has to manage in terms of tense having parties up there um that's not really something we can control but the second floor entrance I think is that access from the street to that second floor area is a that should be secure that's a little weird actually um anything else anybody so we're gonna look at minutes on Tuesday is that that's what's being added to the agenda yes yeah we don't have enough time right now I think there's a couple I sent something along and there's a couple but I think we need more members of the committee to do that we should we should um approve the 615 minutes but we should do that when more people that were at the meeting are here yeah that would

230be nice um okay so I'm going to entertain a motion to adjourn anybody's interested in making it seconded making the motion who's making it you draw you're going to make the motion yeah and make the motion to uh agenda meeting I'll second it great all those in favor which will happen after I yeah Kathy Rooney I okay thank you everybody for attending thank you comments good night good night everybody good night everyone thanks