001I call this meeting to order. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Discussion item hiring process. Chris. >> Yeah. Right. I decided a question came up on how we engage through a hiring process. So I thought I would take a broad stroke of the paintbrush and kind of go through all areas. Mission statement and portrait of our graduate poliring process is governed by board policy 5000 but specifically superintendent procedure 5000P. Difference being the board approves policy superintendent writes the procedures. The div the district identifies our needs. Uh we post a description based upon those specific needs with salaries and qualifications and then we move
002forward with the screening team that reviews those applications by the established criteria. Candidates can be selected for interviews or and rejected candidates can be notified. Interview process team conducts an interview using predetermined set of questions. Can't ask questions about you know protected class information, personal information. We can't ask them for their social media information and then we move into uh reference checks. Uh prior to employment, the district uh must ensure that they can clear specific clearances. they pass a misconduct background check and incriminal disclosures. So that's kind of the basis of 5000 uh 5000P. Um oh for certified positions they have to show that they're certified. We make a recommendation for hire. I can hire conditionally. Um so if we need to bring somebody in they can come in temporarily but they're not fully hired
003until we get through board vote and then somebody officially works for the district kind of. That's the 5000p process. And that's also >> and that's how we when we uh bring somebody on before we actually vote on it the time before. That's a condition. Correct. >> This is now Yeah. I mean, I can bring somebody in on conditional employment um based on the act background checks and like if I need to bring somebody in early, we can get into those points also on how somebody gets in early because after this point I'm going to start getting into where this sounds great, but there's one clear provision. 5,000 is decided upon the board. 5,000 P is written by the superintendent. Board agreements supersede 5,000P. Every CBA collective bargaining agreement is an agreement between the board board
004signature and the bargaining unit signatures. So anything that comes up in a collective bargaining agreement supersedes this. Okay. So we're going to go through all of the collective bargaining units agreements. We have five collective bargaining unit agreements, six contracts. They're all different and all supersede 5,000 P. So which means I think the question is is what is the hiring process and the answer is going to be we have five different hiring processes. So exceptions to 5000P collective bargaining agreements CBA supersedes 5000P. Um, also transferring the district has the ability to transfer and backfill our needs based upon the decision of the district. So, if we have needs and we're not expanding, well, you know, staffing and money. So, one of the things the board is in charge of, board is in charge of three things.
005Uh, policy, budget, and superintendent. Those are the three things that the board has control over. So, if we're not allocating new funds and we need to move one employee from another spot to a different spot, we have a defined process for transfers that do not include applying for a job or trying to seek a job. Temporary and emergency appointments. Um, so we need to backfill somebody. So, pre-board authorization, I can board directors can take official action on a meeting, but the superintendent has the authority to backfill a temporary position. Um, Mr. Ashlock right here would be a prime example of backfilling a temporary position under my authority functioning in a temporary condition until the board uh finished his approval last Wednesday. Replacement contracts. So, if we have somebody out on we have eight employees out
006this year that are out on long-term leave, we can actually bring somebody in without board approval for a leave replacement on a temporary assignment. uh temporary emergency hires also coming in. So, a leave replacement if somebody's on leave. This is different like I'm creating a new position that has a short-term contract. So, I know I said temporary, I feel like I'm contradicting myself, but there's a difference between a leave replacement that I bring somebody in conditionally and a temporary employee. There's also an exception on um um yeah I must have backed temporary employees and then there's a difference um so we're creating a short-term position. We can bring people in on a short-term contract and we can have separate hiring on short-term contracts. >> Um exceptions to the procedure but more restricted is like uh
007retired employees. So retired employees if they want to come back they restrict uh retaining their own retirement. So if you work more than a 60% contract your retirement comes into place. So the state has laws and policies and we have our own policy around employees that are already retired. [clears throat] And um there are three people in this district name one never work in this one person in the planet who can never work in the Elma school district and that would be my wife. So again worked with her over at Miller. I think she does a great job over there, don't you, Vicken? But she can never work here. So, um, really it's specific to the superintendent, the directors, you being directors have to refrain from action involving the hiring of your spouse. But realistically,
008there is one person in the entire planet who can't work here. Questions on exceptions. All right. So now we start looking at the specific contracts. So ESP is our classified union. So the way it works is we um post a position. The bargaining unit has a right to bargain salaries for all positions, especially if it's new. We generally have all positions bargained as a salary rate uh with steps. But if it's something that doesn't fit within one of those categories, the CLA the classified association can actually rebargain price before we can go live with the posting. This one goes concurrent. So if we post it, it goes 5 days out to the whole community and 5 days internally. So anybody in the community can apply for the position. If you work for the district, you're
009guaranteed a right for an interview. You're not guaranteed a right for the position. So an association has right to sit on the interview committee. So the association gives us a list of members that they would like to have sitting on the interview committee. We go through their executive committee. Their executive committee can sit on the interview panel. Current bargaining unit members are not guaranteed a position. That's an important distinction with the classified union. They're guaranteed an interview. So, the district has it within our right for management right to say that um we didn't hire you for a specific reason for the position and you would stay within your current position, but all classified units, bargaining unit employees have a right to an interview. Um questions on classified holds. We go through a full interview committee.
010Interview committee is also stipulated. Principal has a designate but then we don't if snowman from the executive board can serve on the committee then we don't have to wait to move forward. But generally the uh ESP does like to exercise having somebody on the committee. We're currently we had a labor management meeting at 4:30 today. We're currently I mean we're really getting deep into splitting hairs. What is an employee? So is a substitute an employee or is a substitute not an employee? So, we're currently right now reviewing and going back and forth on how long the substitute in the district and does a substitute give protections under the contract and right to an interview. So, just because I have this here doesn't even mean that we're not done splitting hairs. The cut question came up
011today just in our labor management. So, we're still reviewing the labor management process on that. What What is an employee that guarantees you a right to interview? Questions on classified Um the district must post the availability of new positions within I think I already covered this bargaining five days. It goes live so it has to go in district and out of district and targeting get well and also internal candidates also have to be considered first. They get an interview but that is through the interview process. So it doesn't mean they're guaranteed the position. Employees that are hired sit on a probationary period for 100 calendar days and at which point they're at will employees. So if we do hire somebody, classified employees serve as at will for the first 100 days they work for us,
012which means if we do need to let an employee go class in the classified bargaining unit, we let them go. No questions asked. Um, and if we are rehiring, we have to let our employees know we're rehiring them by June, which is unique to our contract outside of other bargaining units. It's not uncommon in other bargaining units that you can show fiscal constraint and do mid-year uh reduction in force. Our contract is written up where we can't do a reduction, we have to do that reduction in force in June and if we don't do it by June, we retain those classified employees for the remainder of the following year. So our contract does offer additional protections. Other contracts don't play coaches, we have to post live for 5 days. So it's in district and out
013of district candidates. So anybody can apply for the position. Um when skills are equal the district will if skills are equal then priority goes to an out in district candidate. So it actually says in the contract in district candidate will get the job first. So if you're a teacher within the district um so that's if we have an applesto apples contract. If we move to an interview, the interview process actually stipulates athletic director takes two people and only interviews with two people. So athletic director picks two other uh coach representatives, they do the interview and it's a threeperson committee defined by the contract. And then employees filling these positions sign an extra duty contract which says non-ontinuing. We can let coaches go at the end of the year whenever they want. So the apples to
014apples would be that poor evaluations positive. You know, we had a coach that had previous history of poor evaluations. Those poor evaluations could count against him on apples to apples. So it doesn't necessarily mean you're guaranteed the position if you're an industry candidate. Um if you have negative coaching evaluations, but if you have a history of positive coaching evaluations, you've been in the district, then interviews aren't required if it's a nonapples to apples and that position that person moves into. And I think it spells out priority to the position and interest or candidates have priority to the position. >> Where does it say that? The priority >> in the I think Michael, did you send that out? >> I did. I >> I did read that. I did not see priority. >> Oh, maybe I
015don't. >> Okay. I I've only just looked at preference. >> Preference. Okay, we'll go with preference. Sorry. >> So preference to me doesn't necessarily mean that it goes directly to one particular person. When I read selection preference, when skills and experience are equal, the district provides preference to IND district applicants. Who who determines what skills and experience are equal? Well, that's going to be done through the posting. So, the posting is going to stipulate what specifically we're looking for. So, we're saying that we want someone with background coaching. So, if candidates say they all carry an assistant coaching experience with no head coaching, assisting experience, then that would be apples to apples. They all carry the same in inside that same experience. Chris, can you clarify? Um, uh, maybe I think the equal might be
016part of the question. Um, I'm taking equal kind of literal, but then I think I I think I heard you say, um, as long as an indist applicant doesn't have a negative, it puts them basically at equal >> status. Is that how >> we can use previous evaluations to say this employee is disqualified because we don't feel I mean I think to your point that word equal is liberally applied. I mean because this is how the language is written on if we feel that we've had an employee with previous poor evaluations that could take into account to say no there's a reason why we're not moving you forward. >> Um yes I I sorry I thought you were saying if they have they don't have any so they only have positive ones that would put
017them on equal status with >> Yeah. If they had positive ones, >> even if they lacked experience, that kind of puts them on a different >> spot maybe. >> Yeah. I mean, the way we view it as it goes live, but if we have position, I mean, if we have a history of positive evaluations and positive performance, then that would I guess I'm understanding your question correctly, would apply would go into how we evaluate them. Okay, maybe maybe it'll make more sense in a minute. Okay, thank you. So we have multiple qualified that we you know and I think this is where we get into the conversation within do we move forward with interviews or not more forward with interviews and I will go back to on this position the district made a decision because
018we felt that we were arguably with preference going to an indistrict candidate um and equal candidates and without us having an athletic director fully in position decision do we move forward with an athletic director and two um two co two employees on the committee or do we move forward with a post assignment? And I think what the conversation with Michael is is with Ken in place it doesn't really matter to me which way we go now that we have Ken in place but to get things in camps the camps are closing up. The idea was is do we give preference to getting our spots within camps before the camp registrations close >> and that's why we [clears throat] brought it to you guys to you basically hear exactly what he's saying whether we want it
019this way or whether we're looking at this way. I wanted to see the hiring process because at some point I felt like that's not necessarily the board's lane. Um, obviously the contracts stipulate what we have to do and the policy stipulates what we have to do. So I was trying to keep myself at least my personally in my lane, but I wanted to present um to the board what was presented as far as the hiring process. So >> right and I think that some of the questions that I had were not necessarily it didn't have to be specific to any one particular hiring. it is if we are on task to approve hires, we better know what's been followed and how that process has come about because at the end of the day, >> we
020said yes >> 100%. And and they're all different, which is why I told Michael, I said, "Let's kind of go through all of them because they don't all have the same requirements." When we go bargaining unit to bargaining unit, I was saving administrators for later because administrators get even more crazy. Um the district can restructure administrative positions yeartoear. Um we can actually change administrative positions as we want restructured. Um if they're not certified as an administrator, they would move to a classifi uh certified contract or an exempt. But then there's this line of the contract which actually states and this is from my contract. I have the right to move administrators around how I want um with the but then it does require that it's um subject to board approval. So that's really looking at
021the fiscal responsibility of the position. >> And I think I think really what I know that I'm looking for is um I'm not here to be like, "Oh, Chris, you you know, we want this, this, and this. That's that's your lane. That's what you do." What I would like to see when we have hires in front of us, I'd like to see even a little snippet of this is the procedure we followed and this is how we came about it just so we have the information um in front of us. >> Um because when we get you know our board agenda and we read through all the things prior to the meeting, we have nothing other than these are who we're hiring. >> I think that makes sense actually. >> I can't answer to why
022>> and we've gone through some iterations, right? Since I got on the board, we had one process and then we had another process trying to refine it. I think the pendulum has swung in both directions and now I think we're trying to find that actual spot in the middle. >> I mean, we have some of the most different processes for hiring when it comes to and when I save teachers for last because teachers union even gets a little bit more unique because they wouldn't even define it as an opening. They would define it as a um the as a indist um a voluntary transfer. So teachers union would would not even view this as a hiring procedure. In fact, their contract doesn't even view it as hiring. Their contract views it as a voluntary transfer
023to a position before anything even becomes live. So I actually am in agreement with that. I mean that was something that I've had within previous roles, which is the check box that the administrator doing the interview signs off and says that these are the processes and they check off all the steps. I'm not opposed to that. That makes sense. and on our next interview committee, we're going to be moving forward our next HR person to go back through and back fill all those processes. So, we haven't had a process like that in Elma, but it's not an it's not an uncommon process that attached to the hiring shows what was done and is signed off by the administrator doing the hire. >> Sure. And I just think that again speak I don't want to speak
024for everyone, but what I'd like to know is if I have some constituent asking me like, okay, how'd that hire or how does this happen or whatever? I'd like to be able to speak intelligently about how we follow things. Um, you know, >> now I will say >> I don't need to have specifics. >> I mean, this was helpful in the sense and this whole process that we've gone through in the last few days of >> sending contracts um out and stuff and looking at that that process was good because I there is a lot of avenues of how we hire under different contracts. So, this has been very educational um for us and hopefully everybody that's at least listening to some degree. So Ken, even Ken, that's why I asked Ken to be here.
025Ken wasn't in his position fully. I mean, he was getting his feet wet. We knew that we needed to get somebody in place because currently right now, this is when camp slots are filling up. So, I will say there is a judgment call that goes into positions to say, are we do we make a do we take the contract and say, okay, we don't have an applesto apples scenario. Um, we have one that reaches the definition of preference. So, and we know we don't have the athletic director to lead the hiring process right now. So, the district's thought is with a coach having the ability to get signed up for camps before all the camp slots have shut down and they can't get into camps and to get a team set up, it's trying to
026give them the most time possible. But if we're waiting for the next Kenda, I don't know, Kenda, do you have any comments you want to say on >> I I just my concern is we got to do this fairly quick because we're in seven on seven leagues where they do all passing and running. Um, and if we don't get into those, they fill up and we won't get a spot and our kids won't get that opportunity. [clears throat] He keeps addressing the camps. If if the coach, whoever it may be, wants to go to Central and they only have 15 C teams and we don't get in, we're not going there. We may have to go to Witworth. You know, we're spend a lot more money going a lot farther and we're just really behind
027the ball now. I I know that I just came on, but whoever we hire is going to be behind the ball, but we need to do it. If we we're at a two week wait anyway. So if Ken needed to roll over and go through interviews, his two people, follow the contract, that doesn't affect us in any way. I think our plan was is we knew that the position in charge of the hiring was already disconnected and our plan was to kind of navigate that. So I don't have too many hard feelings on whether Ken moves forward with interview process or if he doesn't. I think yeah I was just say personally whatever process is followed I think communication from here on forth is um paramount to >> well there is one other thing I
028wanted to talk to you about too because when we go back to the hiring process this actually does stay when we talk about communication it says that we communicate within 10 days after um the hire has been made when we looked at the contract I'm on admin sorry Um applicants selected to receive uh uh selected for a position receive written notification. Our our thought was selected to receive means following board approval. So notification the idea with notification going out following board approval >> and those not selected are just the interview candidates that were there or everyone that applied. >> We would send it to everyone. >> Okay. But we weren't nothing had gone out with pending board approval. >> Okay. >> I guess my thoughts on it are um from me outside looking in looking
029at the contracts looking at the actual posting for a head coach position. Nowhere does it state that or in the in the minimum qualifications or the preferred qualifications in this posting does it say in district employee. >> You mean knowledge of it? >> Yeah. That's not out there. So if I'm an outside person applying saying, "Oh wow, that head coach job's open and I'm going to apply for it." My expectation is, especially if I've got 20 years of qualifications, that I would at least get some sort of an interview and not just a notification that that's going to the board for approval for somebody that there's been no interviews conducted, I guess, where I'm going with it. It doesn't look good on our part. >> We need at least need to have the disclosure on
030there so they have an expectation of what is going to be happening in that process. If we could look at the process of mapping out what the steps are per collective bargaining and agreement and then have the steps for posting, I think that's something we could have our new HR person work on. That position would be approved hope, you know, pending board approval on the 28th. So then we'll have an HR person to map it out. So that's an easy first step to say these are the hiring processes per collective bargaining agreement and then with postings reflecting what the individual bargaining agreements mean. Now, like I said, that's only going to be unique to specific positions. Um, like I said, for teachers, teachers don't even view the process as an opening and applying as an
031opening. They view it as a as a voluntary transfer. >> So, as far as teachers are concerned, their contract stipulates they're not actually even applying for [clears throat] transferring to a position that exists. >> They're they're putting in a request to do it, right? I mean, if there was a fourth grade spot that came open and a seventh grade person wanted it, they could put in that request. they have first option to >> but their contract stipulates they're choosing to transfer to a position to apply for position >> and then if nobody chose to go to that fourth grade spot then it would open up. >> Yeah. So their contracts like they don't view that as even part of hiring process at all. >> Right. That makes sense. >> Clear as mud. >> Yeah. just
032the communication piece is the the one that's hard, right? Because if it comes to us, then obviously the cat's out of the bag, right, to some extent. So then it's telling the candidates, well, >> we had an issue though with the middle school principal position where word was out, but that wasn't the position. It always of the district, it's always until board approval is done. >> So trying to stay consistent with how do we want what was communicated. So I think when we did middle school principal the direction was it's not position is not officially hired until board approval is complete. So that was the stance that we were holding to >> because typically [clears throat] like even in that case would those other applicants been called or notified historically prior to the board meeting?
033Um, I generally don't call person I'm not hiring until after we get through the board process because you never know what's going to happen in between. >> Okay. >> It's not uncommon. I've had a tennis we've had this issue where someone has been notified then we've got all the way to the person that we were hiring and then the person we were hiring said they didn't want it. It's a real awkward call to tell someone who didn't get the job now that you'd like them to take the job. >> Right. Right. >> So, Is it pretty standard when a [clears throat] job is posted within the district that it just goes out to the public or is it is there anything that says it can be posted internally for so many days and then it
034goes externally? >> It's it's unit by unit. So like classified has to go to the public and in district. Coach's contract says five days to the public too. Teachers contract stipulates five days in building not before it goes public. >> So no matter what. So even though we were talking about the in district thing, the CBA says that it has to go both. >> Is that is that what I'm following? Because I mean even the state has changed the way they've done things because it used to be when we go on a hiring freeze, we could do internal hires, but then when we're not on a hiring freeze, it goes out to everybody whether there is no internal >> coaches contract doesn't actually stipulate where. So I think we're reading it as in it goes
035public because it says must be posted for 5 days. Classified contract says must be posted concurrent. actually uses the word concurrent in building and out of building. Teaching contract says it must go five days in building maybe more than that 10 days. >> There is a small website that we there is two different locations. The top location says in district only applications and then outside district. >> So it used to be we didn't upgrade that in our last bargaining. It actually said that we had to have a paper copy hanging up in their break their staff room. Um, so now we actually did get their last bargaining down to an email that goes out. So then Eric manages that by emailing out to all party members. So it's it's not consistent. I think that the
036two pieces that and the feedback that has come to me um are really hinging on the words equal and preference >> and and confusion of whether or not um does equal mean um anything above meets the standard is equal? Um, so it's not, you know, I'm throwing these numbers out, but somebody who has 20 years head coach experience, but they're out of our district and no matter what they have going on over here, does equal just mean kind of a flat line of anybody who is meeting qualifications? And then also um you know or is equal very honestly as far as you know wow somebody with 20 years experience and blah blah blah actually seems like they would exceed capacity and skill experience abilities. Um, and then the preference. I think the both both words
037are kind of ambiguous to the especially to the public, you know, from the contract language and you sit through the negotiations that may make more sense internally what we mean as a district by preference, but I I think that that's the feedback. I'm sensing people feel confused over are those two. Not only that, but going [clears throat] a little bit further into the into a contract looking at the pay scale and specifically coaches because that's what I looked at. Um, zero to two years of experience, coaching experience doesn't even give you one year as a head coach experience. So somebody who has zero to two years of assistant coaching or coaching experience will not equal one year of a head coach position, >> right? >> And so that to me there's there's a discrepancy also
038because you're saying that someone is more qualified who on the scale doesn't even get one year experience versus someone who has 20 years. >> I was going to go off Stephanie's answer. We're going to go off of that minimum qualification on what we put in the posting for what we want and we're going to use that posting on benchmark met and people who meet that benchmark is how we define you know equal standing. >> Okay. >> So if you reach that equal standing based upon the posting so if we wanted to differentiate or delineate between years of experience then that would be stipulated within the posting and then that's how we would draw that line. >> Okay. So I think to your point using contract language that stipulates you know this is the contract language
039on when you have somebody internal or not internal you know here's a positive exper you know things like that >> so when you're saying is when skills and experience are equal to that of the posting minimum qualifications amount okay because it really is it is it is vague but I mean we operate in contracts vague I know even in those words it sounds >> if someone were to press us on a public hiring that's what that would be the legal standard we be held against is >> is whether they met the minimum >> based based upon that minimum qualifications >> because I think that I would have taken that really literal of how could you determine somebody was equal if you only looked at one person but you're not comparing them to candidates you're comparing
040them to >> position >> the list posted posted position >> is that the clarity that we minimum qualifications on the posting on what we're looking for >> okay I mean whether or not we love that answer or not I think just having that point of clarity helps um ex explain that contractually and because I'm assuming that this coaching unit the collective bargaining they they're in agreement I guess I'm assuming with how that would be interpreted. Yeah, I mean that's how I mean my understanding this is how we've run our process when we do our hiring. >> I mean we've hired multiple coaches under this contract >> through this process. >> I just don't know if we were I I mean I think where we were stuck is to our knowledge we hadn't hired coaches without
041going through >> yeah and process. So, I think that's where we were like, wait, >> this is a process where we would have done over winter break done multiple weeks of hiring, but with Ken coming in transition. Um, like I said, we're in a point where we can arguably say we're not, you know, we have equal, but we have an indist candidate. We can make an argument to have Ken go through a process, but we still would have a candidate that has indistrict candidacy preference within tied to that. So the question is is is following the contract, meeting our time restrictions, making sure we have somebody in place, and then there's a few other things that I would get into where I wouldn't argue that we have things as equal, but um having Ken in
042place. So I told Michael, Michael said, "Can we discuss this at the next board meeting?" And I said, "Well, no. I'd rather figure out who, you know, getting a hire approved. And if Ken's going to go pull up interviews, I'd like him to have a few days to pull interviews together. Well, I'm going to just going to throw it out there. I think that um I think that we should grant interviews. I think that those applications should be gone through and you take the top five, six applicants out of that. Um there's a process, you know, when you go through applications, who's got experience and um the qualifications that we're looking for and then do the interview process. It may put us back a few days or a week. >> It doesn't put us back
043any time at all. Ken, >> I said if we met on Tuesday, Ken can get it done by Friday, we'd be on a referend, you know, and still be on the board agenda by Wednesday. This is why I called a special meeting is so that we could move on it fairly quickly and not wait if whatever. Yeah. Because if we wait around, we're obviously pushing pushing the limits. >> And I realize that puts more probably on Ken's plate, but I feel that um it's our duty to make sure that the process is followed the way that it reads to the public as a whole. I think it's a good way to put it. I mean, as far as I mean, you can read the language all we want all day long and it could be
044legally meaning one way, but public perception is obviously um what what really is coming down to what we're talking about, right? Well, I know that if I was to when I looked at the job thing, if if I was to have applied for that job, knowing that I wasn't even going to be looked at, but wasn't told in that process, I wouldn't have applied for it had I known that I don't h I'm not in district and I'm that I'm going to get preference because I'm in district. It's not going to me. It just doesn't even look like it's based off of merit at this point. So, that would ups one, I wouldn't apply or two, I would upset me if I did apply. and didn't know those things while applying. >> I think our
045only like when we think about it sounds like contractually though you were within the bounds. I mean we just lacked the information. So it sounds like contractually based on your interpretation we were in the balance to make the you know for you to make the recommendation or but I I feel like the piece that we committed to as a major boral was working on transparency and unfortunately we're having to kind of go backwards to really do it transparent >> to go forward. I mean, we're here. >> We're making a war process. You know, >> the conversation with Michael, and I told Michael this bluntly, I'm 601, half dozen of the other because the reality is is if we're going for an effort of transparency and Jamie, I'll use your point. We could not interview, not
046have people come in, or we could bring people in and then we have to get into a per union contract to someone have the job. So, did we waste their time to not just apply, but did we also waste their time to also interview? if you have an industry candidate who has preference for a position. Yeah. >> So my question is is like where do we move that transparency line? And candidly I really you know six of one half doesn't have another. If the community was like you know what and that's your job is to be the ear of the community. If the community says well I'd still like to be able to come in for an interview even though the contract says preference is going to go to some you know preference. I guess
047that's what I'm going to get hung up on though is that even though the contract says preference will be given, preference to me does not mean it's a guarantee, >> right? You said that yourself. Yes. >> But but also maybe it does. I guess that's I think Chris what you said is a really important distinction. I don't think we have the information of if at the end of the day the I'm going to say the the union contract is going to say that's really nice that you brought everybody in but it has to go to the ind district person >> because they at least met >> because they required >> I I definitely don't love bringing people in to just go through a process that you already know the piece to. So I to me
048it's that moving forward making sure we do better by getting the right communication out early on and that transparency. But I would hate to bring people in for the sake of >> I know I mean >> I would really want to know that I know that I know if you're going to go out for interviews that those other applicants honestly have an opportunity a genuine chance of having that job. And if they don't, I feel like it's it's very >> well, I only interview and hire administrators in the district. So when it gets down from administrators down into who's are how our administrators are hiring, I mean, I can't go through because I don't go through all the applications. I don't go through the processes. I can answer a district level position. There's one position
049I hire administrators. Administrators do their job to hire the other positions. I I understand the I understand the idea behind um how am I going to say this without being really brushed? I guess I'm confused on why we would tie ourselves to a word of preference because it could go the other way. You could have a indistrict employee who is not best for the job. >> Mhm. But yeah outside >> that meets the minimum qualifications has all the things but as a hiring board knows or as anybody they just don't have what it's going to take to be that coach. >> Generally that should be done through coach evaluations. So we should have a history to say that that coach isn't qualified for that position through coaching evaluations or evaluated coach and we have negative
050performance or we have a reason to be concerned but it needs to be objective. It shouldn't be a blind side, especially what the mission is to function in a level of transparency. Blindsighting somebody who's only had positive evaluations, who's only done what we've said has done a good job. We put in for a job and we said, "You know what? I know we've been telling you you've been doing a great job, but actually, we thought it's been a terrible job all this time, and we're not necessarily interested in moving you into this position. Wouldn't really meet the threshold of what we're trying to go for, level of transparency. So we do have an evaluation process and then we also have the process to show if you weren't a coach or you don't have the experience
051or if you're not with the number in it. So I mean that's why we have the evaluation process to go back through. So if we have a history of positive evaluations, we're moving in the right direction. I think it's it's our are our evaluations meaning what we feel like they mean or we say that what they mean. >> Well, I think we've gotten better. I mean, that's the feedback you've given us is the evaluation process has gone better. But I think to kind of Jaime's point, evaluating somebody based on their current job as I'm just going to say as an assistant coach, Michael might have a great series of evaluations for soccer as an assistant coach, but he wasn't being evaluated through the lens of head coach. So I I guess I could see where
052somebody could potentially have still you would say positive evaluations but not evaluations reflective of what you would comment if you were expecting them to be the head coach. I I don't know maybe that wouldn't happen but and and I shared this earlier with for sure a couple is I just been thinking about the precedent moving forward. That's that's my only I feels like whatever we do we >> yeah I think we all have a perception of how hires go right like so for the state I mean and I told you this right we we do an interview for everything I mean we could have one candidate and only one candidate nobody apply for two years and have one candidate and we do interviews and we do so everybody's going to have their view and that
053you know for me when I when we started talking about it and and the process immediately my mind went to well yeah were going to do this process. But that's why I asked for to to talk about the process because then I realized, well, I guess I truly don't know the process. So, >> right. >> So, I guess yeah, I'm me personally, I'm >> I understand your point of wanting to honor, you know, um, interviews, but I think I would be not happy if I was called to come in to do an interview. I knew I wasn't getting anything. >> Well, that's I guess and that's what the important part of it is then. Then why are we inter why are we even putting it out there to your for this one for this particular
054hire? >> Well, for any pulling people right now is it is it are you wanting to say that because we haven't voted on it yet? >> I think it should be an even playing ground right now. Absolutely. >> Consider absolutely okay. I don't know why I want to know which the difference >> because I think Jamie you and I I still am thinking preference doesn't mean I take preference like you get it. >> Yeah, I take it. >> I think people hired on merit. >> Who is going to do the best job? Who's going to be the best fit? I don't know any of the players in this >> game right now, right? >> And I don't care. I just want to make sure that we hire the best qualified person for our kids. >>
055Plain and simple. And if that means going back to the drawing board and calling in people and offering interviews, then I think that's what we need to do. And I think we need to have an interview committee and a recommendation who that committee thinks is going to be the best person. And I don't think it's fair to the persons in district because they don't nobody wants to be just handed a job because they were in district. They want to earn it on merit. >> Right. >> Like I said, I'm a half dozen. to that. Jamie, I would say that um I don't I don't agree with you on that point because I believe that if we're talking about who we're talking about, he's not getting just because of he works for the district. >> I
056don't even know the players and I don't care. I don't I don't know the players. Well, >> the a district person is dequalified by by myself and by >> and we don't and we don't need to get into the I don't want to get into individuals because I want to name individuals in a >> public but I'm just saying that you know and back to Stephanie if if we are told to go back to the interview I promise you that it will be fair because that's the way I am. Um just so I just wanted that out there >> that um >> we'll hire the best person but we're going to look at the district too because whoever that is for the purpose of he's in our building already. He knows our kids. He [clears
057throat] he knows or she >> and I'm okay with that. Okay. >> I'm okay with that. I just want to make sure that it is there and that it is trans. Like I said, as an outsider looking in, if I'm just anybody on the street and want to apply for a job here, >> I want to make sure that when I do that, I'm going to be given a fair shot. >> And and maybe because Chris, you already said at the very beginning, we're still bound by that collective partners agreement whether or not we whatever we think it still has to be in alignment with that agreement. So maybe it's getting more clarity, not tonight, but at some point of really nailing down what preference really actually because I I think that's what's holding us
058us up. I think I'm Jamie to be preference means you definitely would give it a consideration. Like in the other part of the language, it said they're giving consideration. given consideration to me means like we definitely pay attention to that fact and that's noted and we would think highly about that but it wouldn't mean a that's not a trump card and I think how I'm thinking is originally it was interpreted that the in district minimum standards is a trump card right and so I I think just that's where we felt uncomfortable and I still tonight don't really feel like I know that I know what the actual language preference ruling means from the standpoint of the union, not from us as a board. >> I also think that on future postings that it should be
059noted on there that per CBA preference. >> I wrote that down. I thought that was a good idea. I thought that made a lot of sense. >> That makes sense to me. So that's >> So we walked in a circle because I still >> I don't really know to go because we don't direct from this point. >> I think you just have to decide what that language says and you'll need >> I like I said I don't I'm I'm so 5050. I've got two construction projects we're trying to manage right now. One out to bid, one out to this. Um, I have administrators who do individual hiring. We didn't have an athletic director in the position during the hiring. We have an athletic director now. So, I'm so 50/50 on it. It doesn't matter. When
060we walk out of here, I'll can tell Ken that he can do interviews and I'm going to go back to managing two construction projects. Jamie, are you because I don't I don't want to miss that, but if the contract language is going to override, Chris finds out that the contract language is going to override. Do you still feel like we should go through the process? >> If the contract overrides, I just don't think the contract does. I truly do not believe that that contract states that it will give you >> I'm in agreement with you. I think the same thing. I don't think it does either, but if it does, >> but I'm also not part of that opinion and I didn't >> I'll be really honest with you. I'm not interested in figuring out
061if it does or not because we're on a short timeline. It would take me more time to sit down and do another contract maintenance with the union to get an answer on that than it would be to just do interviews and come back and have an approval by the next board meeting. So, >> okay. we will be in the same spot because if you do that I guess I'm I'm trying to think now if and all of a sudden you hire you bring us Megan's name and we know Megan's not the employee it still feels like we need to know from the union because then the union would say you didn't hire the indist well I mean what'll happen is I think we get through the interviews and see because the union can file agreements
062and we'll have to go to the agreements process So, >> okay. >> And then we for sure know. >> So, but end of the day. >> Okay. If there was a way to proactively avoid a gre grievance, I guess that would be my vote. But I believe we're past that point. >> I think >> I don't have anything. I think I said what I need to say or I might just >> Well, this is what we called it for is to get this out and learn about the contract stuff uh process, the hiring process. We had a lot of questions not just just about the the hiring process that we've been talking about, but just in general as the approvals come in and and and for everybody to understand the complexity of some of the
063situations that that uh that we have. So, but at least we got some things to add to it sounds like the um applications in the future for that CBA. You got that down. >> Well, we'll do a checklist process and then from that we'll do we can modify postings, but I won't tackle that. We have a new HR person in place. >> Okay. >> I apologize for my tardiness and my desire. I'm on vacation and I forgot. You call me on vacation. I was on vacation. I apologize. >> It's okay. I just was like >> never happened to me ever. >> So there's no action item here. It's just a discussion item. So does anybody have any further discussion? Uh there's nothing else on the agenda. So does anybody want to >> I'll make a
064motion that we enter. >> Second. >> So move and seconded during the meeting. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. I. All those oppos say nay. Motion carries. Meeting ajourn.