001Let me see. I might I might just help me get on my my speakers here for a second just so we can keep going. This is going to be any better. But >> Oh, I see you're trying to put it through the speaker system. >> Yeah. See if we can see if we can get it to work. If not, >> what about through the Prometheium? Can you Yeah, it's actually the Prometheian. So, do that. >> Can Can I don't know if this is going to be any better. You want You want to try to give it a shot, chat? >> Sure. Can you hear me? Okay, >> Chad. >> How about now? >> Okay, that's always a good sign. >> Can you hear me now? >> Speakers will not work. >> Not muted. Can you
002hear me now? >> Okay, let's try that. >> Job security. >> That's working fine. But can you hear us, Dad? Yeah, I can hear you. >> Okay, >> it's >> I think you can hear us. >> We can't hear you. >> Yeah, I can hear you guys. >> Okay, [clears throat] >> here. We'll we'll have to >> Yeah. >> See if we can get you going anymore. >> I do feel bad that I get some gratification watching the tech guy struggle with my >> I do I am I am enjoying this little >> Sorry. I know another solution. So, let me see if I can >> Sean always walks the door with like eight solutions, I noticed, too. >> Yeah, there is. >> There's more than one way to get this. >> There's one after
003another of troubleshooting. You keep on troubleshooting. >> He's very patient. >> See how the sausage is made, so to speak. You positive but you want to give it one more shot. Chad >> speak Chad. He put himself on mute. >> Helps if I unmute myself. Is that better? >> Yeah, better. Okay, I'll continue working on it while you guys me. >> All right. Well, after much delay and shenanigans, good evening. I call the October 28th, 2025 meeting of the Quincy >> School District Board of Directors to order. Would you please rise and join me in the pledge of >> allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> We'll get through this. >> Uh
004this too shall pass. Uh I have everybody's received a copy of tonight's agenda. Are there any proposed changes or amendments? I make a motion to adopt the agenda as is. >> Second. >> All right. We got a a motion in a second. All those in favor say I. >> I. Okay. Uh any public comment tonight? >> No. >> Okay. On to the consent agenda. Uh any items all items in the consent agenda can be approved in one uh continuous motion. Is there a student advisory vote tonight? There's no student tonight, unfortunately. >> I was so prepared. >> The one night we're ready for it. >> I know. I'm disappointed in myself. Um so, uh do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> I move to approve the consent agenda. >> I second
005it. >> All right. With an approved and second, all those in favor say uh >> I have discussion. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Okay. I have a a question uh for Tia. On page one of the September budget status report under the federal special purpose line item, it's negative for the month and the year. >> Yeah. So, we are able to acrue revenue that we receive in September and October back to the following year. And really what it was is um we have our title grants that we can claim up through October but post them back to 2425. So in September when I did month end I reversed that approval which puts a negative to offset the revenue you receive. But so there's a negative until October and then it'll clear out because it included
006September and October revenue. >> I love school accounting. Yeah, that's a big negative. >> Question. We're ready to keep going, Chad. >> All right. So, if there's no other questions, all those in favor of adopting the consent agenda today, say I. >> I. I. >> I. >> All right. We're on to reports. Mr. Vil Pondo, sorry I'm not there to see you in person. We we'll have another chance. I'm sure. >> I'm sure >> we see each other at at birthday parties. We have I have grand kids and his uncle. >> All right. Well, thank you for coming to George Elementary. I'm Laura Vondo, the principal. This is my fourth year, so I'm super excited about this year. Um, I have a um with the help of Jessica Blanc has created a two-pager for you.
007Just kind of want to go over I want to highlight some things that we're doing here at George Elementary. Um, but on the top left on that black piece is our mission and vision statement. And so I'm going to go ahead and read that. Um, so um, and Raph Sereno is here to help me. He is our counselor. >> Emotionless. [laughter] and uh and he want he is going to share um a little bit about um how we're supporting students social emotional learning um which I highlight in um the flyer. But so our mission and vision statement is at George Elementary we are committed to fostering a collaborative and inclusive learning environment where every student is seen, heard, and valued through intentional collaborative conversations, goal setting and actionable feedback. We empower students to take ownership
008of their learning by cultivating hope and a growth mindset. We inspire all learners to believe in their potential and strive for academic success. Um so you'll hear about uh many things that we're doing that um align with our school um mission and vision statement. Down below that is uh just some de our demographics, what makes up our school. Uh we have 170 students. Um and then I will let you read um the percentages of um the different >> Ethnicities. Thank you. >> Um okay. So we have six school improvement strategies that we spend a lot of time on. Um, four of those strategies we've been working on for a few years, which is um, teachers really identifying uh, priority standards, having students set goals around those um, priority standards and monitoring their growth. So, those
009are ones that we're not changing. We're we're seeing um, growth with that and so we want to keep those in place. Um, one new one that we started this year, um, in response to the data that we were looking at from the SBA classroom walkthrough data, uh, just we want to find different strategies that, um, engage students in their learning. Um, and that's with teacher feedback as well. Um, you know, it's over time it's gotten a little more difficult to engage students in learning. Um so we um are with the help of Kim Bunch. She's our district and instructional coach from specifically math. Um she's helping us learn about strategies that come from the book building thinking classrooms. And what it is is just enhances math instruction and deepens students understanding. Um so it it's
010building um thinking a classroom teaches how to shift teachers role from a lecturer to um a facil a facilitator that creates an environment for deep thinking. And that's just like what what we've been looking for just those little strategies here and there. We have curriculum that we follow and things but at times we get stuck in the the daytoday. So just finding different strategies that really engage students and provide ownership for them um opportunities for that. Um the very first strategy that we learned about and that there's a picture of the students utilizing the strategy is it's a collaborative strategy. We want students up and out of their seats. That's first. That's important because a lot of times they'll be sitting um you know in their seats all day long. So we want to provide
011opportunities for them to get up. Um we want opportunities for them to um you know work together collaboratively. Um be asked questions that really um above you know level one questions that really stretch their thinking. Um so this was the very first attempt. Um our fifth grade teacher tried this um strategy. Um and she she learned what what questions to pose. You don't just pose any question. It has to have some um deep thinking opportunities for students. So, that was fun to see. I captured a picture. One of those students wasn't happy that they were getting the picture taken, >> but the other two I said, "I'll take it. You're fifth grade." I got two smiles. >> Um so, that's what we're doing with math. Um and hopefully we can learn strategies that transfer over
012into ELA as well. Our other one, um, new strategy is one that Raph's going to help us, um, help explain, but, uh, we've been learning about hope and how, um, hope, um, is important for students to have. Um, and so there's different strategies we've been working on. Um, for instance, I mentioned that we provide opportunities for students to set goals. you know, setting goals and and um monitoring those goals really builds hope for students so they can see what they um are capable of and what they can achieve. One of the things we wanted to try differently though, it's called a wall of achievement. Um a wall of achievement, it's um it's a powerful way to recognize and celebrate diverse student strengths and accomplishments um of all students. So um he Raph's ready to share.
013Go ahead. Well, well, all of achievement is right behind me. It's on the other side and it's just beginning. Started talking about it when we did all of us keep reminding our teachers and you too. You're all purveyors of hope and if you haven't read this book, please take a look at it. Okay. Uh so hope gives us purpose and it ties into social emotional learning as well. But going back to the wall of achievement, my goal and uh goal, if you will, is that all of our students pictures and little synopsis of their achievement of and achievement will be posted on the wall, which is on the other side here. Uh I initially reached out to the fourth and fifth graders because they're the senior occupants here and they're the ones that are setting
014the example for the rest to follow. So what you see over there uh right now it's just the beginning and I would invite you to come here to begin the school and I hope that is going to be all populated and maybe the blank uh bulletin board that's across from it. But uh again uh two main purposes for the role of achievement celebrate student individuality and success and it also creates role models uh here within our school. Uh and again it it also adds this this little paragraph says it all. It also uh the last sentence says that we provide a welcoming and inclusive environment where every student is going to feel seen, valued and connected whether we like it or not. You know, and I I I I tell parents when I have the
015opportunity, you know, you entrust your child here to us and under the law, we become the parents. Then that's is such a precious commodity, if you will. We're not doing this. We're not just going to go ahead and feed them what we're, you know, we're going to treat them well. We're going to teach them, right? And we're going to return them to the parents. Um, and so, you know, it's a very valuable and worthwhile thing we do here. Uh, and so I, and I know this is going to resonate with you, Casey, because your children go to school here. You know, they're doing real well. I hope their picture's going to be up for soon. Regardless though, I would want my children, which are now grown adults, you know, to be at this school. Not
016only because of his leadership, but we got some awesome teachers here. And without the parent involvement, you know, uh we would not be as good as we are, if you will. There's a lot of growth happening here. Regarding social emotional learning, it begins in the home. It does begin in home and then it continues through the school. All of our teachers are purveyors of hope, teachers of social emotional learning. Um, I'm not the only guy doing that. And so with that, I will uh call your attention to that. And as you notice, I'm wearing an awesome pineapple shirt. There's a story behind that, but I won't bother you with that. And those are not my sons. I wish they were, but they're two awesome brothers, uh, two awesome kids here. One's in the second grade,
017the other one's in the fourth grade as one of our leaders. And so, um, recently we took the the Panorama survey and those are the results regarding Panorama. Um, regarding social emotional learning, at the very bottom, uh, there's the emotional regulation score, and that tells me that, yeah, we got some work to do. not only us uh there's work to do in the home as well but we with our program which mitigates uh uh and and it and it helps students that are in the high risk area if you will according to the SRSS survey that we took and according to what Laura and I and the teachers uh uh gathered information regarding certain students we have an SEAL program at lunchtime where I gather certain students every day during lunch period. Um, and we
018go over social emotional learning so that they can learn and enhance their social emotional skills which are very important. They're going to need them throughout the rest of their life. Um, so suffice it to say um that I feel that we're on a good path. anytime. Come over here and see what we're doing and you'll be you'll be pleased. Um, so no more talking to my parts. I'll talk you to death if you let me. Uh, questions regarding this. >> How's the emotion regulation score stack up against other other schools? Is that fairly common with that grade level, that age? >> Comparable. All the elementaryaries are very similar. Um, I I do want to take you back to the data. So, uh, we added the third graders, uh, with this survey this year. We, we
019hadn't done that in the past. Um, so our third, fourth, all Quincy School District, third, fourth, and fifth graders had the same questions. One thing that we're really proud of was the supportive relationships. 97% of our students scored favorably. The question that was asked was, do they have an adult at school that they can trust if they need help? And so, that's so awesome. I mean, that's a great start. I feel like that that foundation is super solid. Um and then it asked that question and it asked if they had a friend that they could trust to ask for help. So that that in itself means we've done a lot of good work with that. Um but the emotional regulation the question was when you get mad how often do you stop to think before
020you act? >> And um yes that is not a favorable positive answer. And when we went to look at the data, it's mostly u of the the the males um are definitely on the lower end of the of the needing more support. So um and that's definitely something we see on the playground. Um and so we uh one of one of the ways we're supporting that is um having lunch bunch groups. That's true. >> Um really being um intentional about what students u we're meeting with and really teaching them those um strategies and skills that they need to to um be able to regulate their emotions a little better. >> Lunch bunch groups. >> I mean what do you elaborate on that? >> Love I'll do one better. I'll give you a little info sheet.
021So basically uh certain students have been identified to be in that lunch fudge group and I >> their names are not on there and just because that student is in that lunch group doesn't mean there's something wrong with him or her. >> Right. >> Okay. It just means that they can use an enhancement to their already u social emotional skill abilities >> so that they can improve on that. Um, >> and is there a staff member with them or it's just it alert? >> Yeah. And you know they're eating, you know, when you when you share a meal with someone with a man, doors open, >> right? And so >> they're eating, they're they're asking questions. I don't have a lot of time to actually do role playing, >> right? >> Which is very important,
022but you know, we do what we can. And like I said, you know, uh, suffice it to say, our families are working families. >> Mhm. >> And and that social emotional learning basis started very young. And, you know, I might be skilled here. My story is very much the same as theirs. My parents were busy at work. >> So, what did I learn? >> Very tired. >> But anyhow, >> I hope that answers your question, but please feel free to call. >> I'm just curious. >> Yeah. And we have kids requests if Mr. Raph here today. Can we go to lunch with Mr. Raph, you know? And so they love to anything different, right? They like to try new things and so if we can get them to go and you know if they want
023to go that's even better. >> So um >> I did have a question. You talked about a little bit how hope in the home and and having some of that emotional support at home. Like is there are we able to or is there efforts being made to bring any of what we're teaching the kids to their home? Like I know it's really hard to influence parents and say, "Hey, this could change or whatever." But >> I'll tell you what, I encourage them because they also learn, for example, the anti-bullying lessons through our SecondStep program. And I also encourage them. In fact, Casey, your daughter was in my I was in her class today. Ask her what she learned. But anyhow, so I encourage them, please talk to your parents. Uh let them know what you're
024learning from me. Ask them to call me if they want to find out anything more. >> Okay? And of course, they all, you know, almost 100% of the time when I ask them, "Do you have a trusted adult you can go to to report bullying?" They're learning, you know, how to mitigate bullying. They're learning how to prevent it. They know what bullying is. For sure. >> At home or I was going to say at are they able to do they feel like they have a trusted person at home? >> I guess it is a concern to to whether or not we want to relay some of this to their home because sometimes that's not a safe situation. But um I don't I just I love the idea of hope and instilling hope in them. And
025but you also mentioned about how behavioral at home is something and so how we can somehow get the message through them to their home safely would be really interesting. >> I know some of the schools will send things in their letters home to families about some of the social emotional work that they're doing and work that they're doing. Raph has done um couple parent meetings with their PVC um where parents have requested kind of the bullying uh the work. us uh at Pioneer has done several at you know I just don't know if we've done one at Mountain View yet but some of the the parent advisory committees have asked for that to but we haven't done like a specific districtwide yet that I'm aware of. >> I think it came as a response to
026when the different parent groups talked about their results >> and it sort of just came from some of the different parent groups asking and ready for more information. So some have moved forward with that and others were just content to kind of look at the data and had other things to think about right now. >> Okay. And last um just I wanted to touch on um just uh one way I talked last year I talked about uh we added a father and daughter dance and then we added a mother son dance last year. So I already talked about that but um one thing that we do is we provide steam family nights uh where we focus on science, technology, engineering, art and math. Uh usually there's a a station for each one of those where
027student we try to provide hands-on engaging opportunities for students um to work on with their family. So we try to get the parents involved. We don't want the parents sitting off to the side. We want them engaging with the student and and just um ensuring that everybody's participating and learning um how to support students. Um so yeah, we just had our first one and it was a it was a good um it was a good turnout. It was a little earlier than we're we're used to. So it seems like in the earlier fall we don't get as good as turnouts because we have people still working a you know longer shifts and stuff. So we learned from that. we're going to push it back a little bit um in order to to um get more
028uh parents involved in in the that. But um we always get really good feedback about our Steam nights and we're always looking for ways to improve it as well. So those are just some things highlights I wanted to tell you about. Um >> and I love whoever whatever student did the little pumpkin like the doughnut box is so creative. I never would have thought with the little pumpkins say I'm gonna make a donut out of that. So if you go out there right around the corner they have all these really cool designs that the kids did. Is that was that part of your steam night? >> Actually so I have something to tell you. Those weren't created by students. They were created by adults. >> Well those adults [laughter] something in there fun for for
029the staff to do. There's >> competition. And guess who made the doughnut ones? I'm going to say I'm going to say Miss get the winner. If I'm the judge, you just won. That's so >> You're going to vote. Oh, we're not putting names on. >> Oh, that's so funny. >> So, yeah, you'll see the >> Well, well done, Mr. Yondo. [laughter] >> I never would have thought I'm going to make donuts. So creative. >> Okay, but you know, I can't compete with the six seven though. So, whoever did that, >> but I do highly recommend if you ever see George family night on your calendar, I mean, you bring your kids out, too, if you want. Uh, >> I mean, you guys do some great family nights, but you and I both been at George.
030And I think we can be I think we can so is Colleen. I think we can be honest with each other. No one does family nights like George. And >> is it cuz there's food? Is there food? >> Yeah. >> And we'll be together, but really it's >> all the here. I mean it's >> and it's just you know cuz really it's the only thing going on in town and you have uh I'm sure you still do but you know and you we've talked about it but older kids even come back you know middle schoolers will come um because it's they have the relationship um I think that's that's really really special. So, it's a really fun event. If you ever get an opportunity to come to a George family night, I highly recommend it.
031And that's nothing to say bad about any other school. Alicia, you know it's true, [clears throat] Colleen. Yeah, we've experienced it firsthand. >> Now, where are these bonus? >> Oh, right outside. I'll show you. >> I know. It is creative. I never in a million years would have thought that. >> And trunk or treat. >> Yeah. And trunk or treat's coming up. We started that two years ago. Um, and we get a really good turnout for trunk or treat. A lot of invite the >> you guys families to decorate their trunks and hand out candy and we get we get um >> pretty good turnout for that. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Thank you so much. Thanks. All right, Allison with a student data report. >> Yes, we're going to be back with you
032today evening. Uh we uh are going to talk about Smarter Balance assessment data. So, give you an update on our math and ELA scores in the district. Uh there's a lot of information and data on these slides. I'm not going to read everything. Um, but if you have any specific questions as we go, feel free to to ask. Go ahead and go to the next slide. So, uh, I'm actually going to show you data that our district leadership team looks at as a high level. So, really what do we examine as a high level, uh, for both ELA and math growth and proficiency to really think about next steps in academic improvement as a district and in the buildings. And we use a protocol called um here's what, so what, now what, and here's what
033just has us look at the actual facts of what it's telling us. So we're going to look at proficiency and growth. We're going to be able to compare QSD to state and also look at different student groupings. So all students, multilingual learners, and students with disabilities. And the so what part is um really a time to think what kind of inferences can we make about the data? What is it telling us um or not telling us? what other implications might be there um that should be considered as we're looking at it. And then now what is what do we do about it? What's next? So this slide is actually one that um Nick was able to share at uh our district day and I think Shannon was there to be able to see this. Um
034just celebrations more broadly than just SBA. There's so much to celebrate in our district. uh those positive relationships through the Panorama survey. Huge amount um of uh percentage 98% at elementary, 84% at secondary. 75% of our students report feeling safe in our schools. There's a 90% increase from 24 to 25 um on that survey data. our graduates um are needing less college remediation after they graduate, which is an really uh exciting and impressive u metric that we can follow our students after they graduate and how much support they need in college. Uh a lot it's very typical um that students need remediation classes if they uh don't have it proven that they're already college ready. Uh but that number in Quincy has gone down significantly. Three 32% in English and 45% in math. Um over
035the past four years we've tripled the number of multilingual learners meeting proficiency in our WITA language assessment. Uh QIA graduated a record number of students. I think that number even has creeped up since then. Um and our college and the high school and dual credit options. We have over 140 dual credit options at our high school which is incredible. Uh so students can earn high school credit and college credit at the same time before they graduate. We uh have the cell phone free spaces um that's really supporting our students and the bite to go food program was expanded in elementary schools. So a lot to think about in our five different goal areas today. I'm really going to dig into that growth and mastery of priority standards and talk about specifically ELA and math. Go
036ahead. So, just as a reminder, I know we've talked about before, uh, Washington State tracks um, every school uh, in the Washington school improvement framework called WISF. And those columns are different indicators that we get a score for each school. And you can see in K8 um they look at proficiency as 40% of our overall rating of how the state rates us in ELA and math and 50% in growth for ELA and math. So the state says growth is actually even more important than proficiency and there is um definitely a correlation over time that we'll observe in our own data. Uh and then the rest of it is ELEL progress um with WEDA and um that last column is attendance for K8 in 9th through 12th grade. It's predominantly um that 30% proficiency and then
037graduation rate is the big big chunk. Um the rest is e progress and then in addition to attendance on that last column they also look at nth grade success dual credit. But you can see a big big big part of how we are rated as schools in K8 is that ELA and math proficiency and and growth. And I just want to remind you the difference between proficiency and growth. So proficiency is a level three or four on the math or ELA SBA smarts assessment. And if you get a level three or four from third grade up through 8th grade and then again at high school you have another opportunity. They're saying that you're on track for being um ready for college level ELA and math when you graduate. So, um that's kind of a way
038to think about proficiency. You're on track for college level. And then growth is a different metric still using those same ELA and math score. They use something called student growth percentile. And at the end of the presentation, I put some slides in there if you really need a breakdown of what that means, but it's comparing students and two two assessments twice in a year. And it's comparing how you scored for um in an assessment compared to your academic peers. So the same score students are compared uh how they moved up or down um the following year. And that's based on a percentile. So if it's 50 then they they've uh they scored better than 50% of the rest of students. If it's 70 they scored better than 75% of the rest of students. So it's
039based on how other students grew at that same level. So it's a little bit complicated but if you need me to ever explain it slower I can do that. Okay. So, another slide that we shared with our all staff because we're just really proud of some really great standout math and ELA growth. And this is based on student growth percentiles. Uh we had really really good achievement in our fifth grade group. Um both in math and ELA. Uh we had um our ML students grew 5% more than the state average. Pioneer Miss Border's here today. their fifth grade 9% more. Um, at the middle school, their students grew 2% more on average, but their seventh grade, we're going to talk about them in a little bit more detail here because they grew significantly. In ELA,
040we had overall growth higher than the Washington State for all grade levels. Um, at Ancient Lakes, they had they beat the state average by 11%. Q grew an average of 7% and then their middle schoolers beat the state average by 13%. So some really incredible standout growth to show you what this looks like and as we're thinking go ahead and go to the next slide um about comparing. So when we're doing growth student growth pro percentiles when we're looking at all the students that took the test the average is the 50th percentile. So all students in Washington state they would be at the 50th percentile. So you can see that line across this 50th percentile. And I was really curious to see how did an average, this just happens to be fifth grade. Um the
041uh left hand side is ELA, the right hand side is is math. The green is Quincy. The blue is Washington State. So if all students of Washington State are at 50th percentile are all in fifth grade was that 52nd percentile for ELA and the 50th percentile for math. So about similar. We have a huge population of multilingual learners in our district. Um that's significant about 43% of our population which is at the states about 14%. Um we have uh if you can see on here the fifth grader the average SGP of a Washington state fifth grader in ELA was 46% but our fifth graders were at 53%. So we beat uh significantly higher for our multilingual learners. In math, the state average was 49% and we were at almost 55%. For our growth of multilingual
042learners. So really exciting to see that. If you go to the next slide, you can see a similar trend, but this was seventh grade just really had incredibly impressive results last year. Yeah. So, uh, on average 50th percentile, you can see in ELA and math, we were over 55% on average. And then when you look at our multilingual learners, the state was at 47 and 45% of an ELA map and we were at 50 almost 53 and 60 percentile I should say. And then for um the our I added students with disabilities on this because they had incredible growth as well. So at the state it was 45th percentile was our average for students with disabilities and 48% in math. and we had 53 percentile in ELA and 60th percentile in growth for math. So
043really incredible standout growth for our kids since grade last. >> Um when we look at overall our student growth percentiles, we've been tracking this for a few years and we've been talking about a district leadership. Um we we're look we always look at our all student groups and then our multilingual learners and students with disabilities. And what we want is higher growth every year um a in average. So you can see in ELA we've really achieved that we have you know higher growth average for um our all students are that next column or the next row is um our multilingual learners um and they've had significant growth. Our students disabilities in ELA have had significant growth. We've done a lot of work um in our ELA to make that happen. and math. You can see
044that we've gone up as well, but it's uh our it's been a little flatter for our all group this last year and our students disabilities, but our multilingual learners went up significantly this last year. And I do attribute that to a lot of thinking about how do we engage students like building thinking classrooms that we've been implementing uh districtwide. So, how do we get kids up and talking in math? So I'm uh that's where we are with our current state with growth switching. >> You want to pause for any questions for just around growth in general >> before we switch gears. Okay, cool. >> So now switching gears to proficiency. Now this is level three and four. So means uh on track for readiness for college level. This is ELA. It's a little bit uh
045there's a lot of information here, but just so you know, we track information from as soon as we got it. So, we've had SBA data back from 1415 and we looked at that data and averaged it and had a precoid um average and then we've looked at data since then and done comparatives on how each grade level is doing and we also compare it to our star scores because we use that to progress monitor as well or have benchmarks along the way. Uh so that is that data. I'm going to show you some trends here in a little bit. Keep going. Uh for math, same thing. You can see that we track the data all the way through. Go ahead and go to the next one. Um one of the things that we do is
046we look at cohort data and basically from I can show you [clears throat] from like one year to the next. like if they took it in fourth grade and they took it in fifth grade, you can see that 6% more were proficient between fourth grade and fifth grade here. And then our high school ELA does significant growth. This is 8th grade. Two years ago, they didn't have a nth grade, but from 10th grade, they they had 14% more reach proficiency. So that's how you read that. This is our math uh proficiency rates. >> Um and we'll talk a little bit more about that. um here in a minute. But if you look at the precoid versus postcoid, uh you can see that we're really pretty flat in our pre and post for ELA and math,
047we have gone down a little bit and that um we went down just a little bit this last year. So I'm going to show you a bigger trend here. So if we look at all the data that we have precoid and then postco again ELA is flat, math is about average 10% lower. I was curious how we compared to the state because you hear about okay nationwide we're there's been struggles with math and there's been overall proficiency level decreases in math since the pandemic and that's been national news. I was curious what Washington state was. So go ahead and go to the next slide. Washington state has available on the OSPR report card. So you can look at that it doesn't show it in this nice graphic way but they have two years prior to
048the pandemic. So 2017 18 2018 19 and then I wanted to show the last two years and give you kind of a picture of what that looks like. The top state line is uh proficiency in Washington ELA pre- pandemic to post pandemic the Washington states lost 8 or 9% in ELA. Uh in math you can see pre to post they've lost again about 89%. For QSD, we're really pretty flat. We recovered significantly from post from the pandemic. It went down a bit in those middle years and we we got back up, but in math, we didn't ever recover. We haven't recovered. So, we're actually down um you know, depending on how you want to do the math there, definitely over 10%. So, you can go ahead and go to the next slide. Um so my
049here's what so what analysis of this and talking with with some different groups. Um the here's what facts about our growth is well you know we do have higher growth over two years for students um including our multilles learners and students disabilities and uh I know that the so what for that is we are definitely making a positive impact with all the work that we're doing to support um those learners all of our learners and differentiate for learners that um that we need and then the QST grade levels above uh all QSD grade levels um are above state growth or there are excuse me QSC grade levels above state growth in ELA mass is significantly above but QSC's average growth for ELA is higher than the state and the average growth for math is lower
050than the state so that's the facts um I what I'm thinking is that we have definitely more more work to do about why there are differences in growth in the different grade levels and what is that difference maker for for what different teams are doing to get different levels of growth. Uh for proficiency, we know that uh in ELA, our scores are similar to pre- pandemic and our math scores are lower. Um and my SOA is that in ELA there's been a great recovery because we've done some really intentional work uh with a really really deep ELA curriculum study. um and feel really good about the work that they've done to get those scores back up. In math, we haven't done a curriculum study yet. Uh so [sighs] the other point there is um in
051proficiency is we're 9% lower pri prior to the pandemic. Oh, Washington state is 9% lower in proficiency in both ELA and math. I'm glad that we're not lower in ELA. I'm feeling good about that. But we do have some data that's pretty new in the new centralized reporting system they call it that we can look at Washington state data by what they call targets, but they're basically by clusters of standards and analyze the difference between what groups of students are doing at the state versus our groups of students are doing and really do a deeper analysis by classes and rosters. Um, and so we've been really digging into that to try to get to answer that question. what is it that some classes and grades are doing to get higher growth and higher proficiency than
052others? So, um we're definitely use utilizing all that data. All right. So, now what what are we going to do about all this? Okay. [laughter] Well, we clearly have work to do in math. Um and the a true curriculum study. Uh we talked about what different curriculum study or the process of curriculum study. I think we talked about it last spring. Um we're in phase one right now. Uh and we're pretty deep. We're getting deep into it. So phase one is when you identify the parameters and goals. Um the state standards for ELA and math are being updated. We have drafts that are up out publicly, but they haven't officially released what the final is. They said it'll be in the fall, so we're expecting that. >> Are they higher or lower STEM? >> They're
053very in math they're similar. They're very they're almost the same almost identical. Um they added a st a group of standards though around how to look at um data. Okay. >> Um so we are needing to update our non-negotiables to really reflect um our understanding of rigor and relevance. And so we do that through developing success criteria that we use throughout the whole study. And we develop the success criteria. We have a profile of a graduate now that we're going to unpack through our math lens. And that is um you know based on what the community has said is really important. What does it look like in math instruction to really promise on that um and then gathering stakeholder voice to determine what is a ideal classroom experience really look like in math. So um
054really talking with teachers and students and parents getting feedback on what that experience looks like. So in November I'm going to go take a focus group. I'm going to do a focus group at the high school and interview some students. And we have um student story AI which is uh which helps gather that feedback together bit easier than we have in the past. So that's exciting. Um and we are also going to be utilizing AI tools um to create learning progressions for each of the updated standards. And from those learning progressions, we're going to say, okay, what does the standard say is the most important thing that they need to have in this grade level? And then what does it look like those skills that are required before that? So then we can identify where
055kids are on that progression and intervene if we need or extend from there. Those learning progressions are really important because we use that to evaluate if our current curriculum is teaching to the level of the standards they need to be and if they have the intervention tools to assess the needs of kids. again. >> So, we're deep in that process. Worked with the team um on Monday actually developing some learning progressions um that uh we [clears throat] are trying right now. So, the district capacity and this is the work that we started last spring is um for budget. Uh we we don't have a lot of budget. So, we're looking at the cost of our current math curriculum and trying to use replacement costs because the current math curriculum that we have to update it
056uh annually is can be expensive. So, we're going to look at that cost and try to not go over that with replacement costs. Um time and staff, you know, always valuable, extremely valuable in this process. So, we're trying to use the existing tra team structures as much as possible. We have secondary PLC times on Monday um mornings for late start. We have a group of math fellows um that uh we're working through to try some tools. And then we have new to this year K through math grade level leads uh that we're going to be leveraging in the work. And then for technology, we are piloting some AI tools to help us support with the review process. And then basically what phase two is is using all that success criteria that from the indicators above
057to actually look at our program and say where are the holes, where are the gaps and we decide from there okay is it such a big gap that we have to start over and scrap at new programs or are they little tweaks that we can patch with other things. That is all that I have for you but I'd be happy to answer any questions. Do you have a gander as to why there would be a drop from middle school into high school? Do you feel it's attitude? Do you feel it's >> No, it's the >> inabilities. I mean, I just it's hard to imagine that even with the >> the English learners um that they digress like that. >> Yeah. If you if you look at Washington state and if you pull up the OSPI
058report card and you look at at Washington state by grade level, >> the math it shows bars of proficiency from grade level. So third, over 5th, it looks like this at the state. >> It's like that by the time you're down here, the the amount of kids that are college ready based on the current assessment is way lower than when they started in third grade. That is the reality of what's happening in Washington state. So if you look at the jump between 8th and 10th grade at Washington State, if you look over the years, because you can go back in time and look, it's usually a 3 to 7% drop from 8th to 10th grade. The fact that our 8th to 10th grade is almost exactly the same proficiency means that our high school teachers
059are actually doing a really great job of making sure that our students are remaining proficient. It's a way harder test is really the reality. Do they have much one- on-one time? Like, um, I know we have Paris, but we don't have a lot of Paris. >> Uh, well, I can speak to that a little bit. You know, I think when you have it, it's basically they're taking an algebra test. So, you know, we do have time within the classroom. We are working on a couple different online internet tools like Khan Academy where they can get some additional support within the classroom. Um, and that's an AI tool. But as far as a one-on-one additional, you know, we we don't have that at the high school and you wouldn't see a lot of that. We had
060we did have a after school program last year that our kids could attend and get help on their homework. I'm not sure if that's happening this year or not. Um, but we didn't have a lot of kids attending just because of how busy our kids are at the high school level. And I think another thing that you're seeing, I talked about this a little bit at our last board meeting, and we're seeing this throughout the state, is we're having less and less kids even take the high school exam because they don't meet it uh to graduate. Um you know, now students can take their CTE pathway and that fulfills that assessment requirement. Um you're seeing others other ways that, you know, there's bridg bridge college classes that kids can take in high school that fulfills
061that credit. We still have a lot of our kids take the test thankfully, but you're seeing a lot of other districts that are really struggling to get their high school um sophomores to even show up during the testing window. >> Why why even do it if it's not required? >> The you know, if if you want to go to a college and take immediate college level classes, it does tell the college that you're ready for those upper level classes without any remediation. And I I assume we're explaining that to the kids on whether or not they take the test. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and but even the community colleges have dropped some of their their requirements where they'll take a college >> they'll they'll take a a um a running start student
062their junior year who maybe hasn't passed the SBA or algebra 2. So they have some students that are even coming back to take algebra 2 within the high school as juniors. and and there are other way like the bridge to college if they specializ certain level then they they also do not need to take remedial classes at college so there's a lot less incentive than there used to be >> so so then based on that do we do we even put much weight into the the the results for the 10th graders >> we really want to be able to say um to our students in our community is when you graduate you have all the options in >> so I would I I want them to be able to pass the math SBA and say
063you can do anything from here because you're ready for college level courses. >> Let's bribe them. >> And I and I are coming and they're taking the test and it is challenging. I think the one thing that's encouraging though is we're looking at um the ERDC data, which don't ask me what that stands for, but it's the post high school um data. And that's showing that, you know, our kids have improved when they do go to college. are kids that are going to either a two-year or four year are needing less remediation, meaning they're qualifying for a 101 class, which is which is great because we don't want kids qualifying for anything below a 101 because they burn their financial aid on a 98 90 series, you know. Um so it's really important that our
064kids do leave college ready when they do make that choice that they have those skills. And a lot of district, a lot of school districts, I did some research on this because I do get frustrated, you know, that I'm disappointed with the results. Our teachers are disappointed with the results and I know they're working hard and I know I have high schoolers at home. I know how hard they're working um on their homework and and to do well. Um so, you know, we do we do take this very seriously and we want to improve the results. So, that's not going to change. Um but I Washington State there's only 12 schools that even do the SBA at high school. uh a lot of them either do and do the ACT which makes a lot of
065sense to me because it's it is collegegoing um and you need that cut score a lot of times for scholarships or your SAT is what a lot of states will use instead of a SBA. So >> yeah and Washington state in a few years >> and we don't have choice. >> Uh that's a state decision. So the state the state makes the decision to use SBA >> and you know it and it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me especially if the whole point was to these are the kids if you're three or four you're on the the you're ready for college track why not use SAT ACT so it kind of kills two birds with one one stone um but that the state will be changing the assessment in >> at the
066earliest yeah maybe 29 yeah >> so then we'll have a whole new set of numbers to work with >> so and I hope the state makes the decision too that time, you know, to look at ACT or SAT for our kids because that's much more relevant. And it's actionable, too. You can take it multiple times. There states that you can take as a as a high schooler, you can take the the test multiple times. You don't have to wait a whole year to take it again. >> So, but Alison will be back and give additional reports too on the math study and and the work that we're doing. And we do have teachers that are working in teams right now. Um the building thinking classrooms is a really good example of some of the professional
067development we're doing throughout the district to improve math scores. So we know we can do better. We know our kids can do better and we're all motivated to improve in math. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you, Alison. >> All right, Nick, you're warmed up. Superintendent report. >> Warmed up. Yeah. got me go at SBA. All right. Uh just can't believe it's conference week. So next week it is conference week. So if you have not scheduled your kids uh conferences, Shannon, you might want to do that uh soon. Uh and buy those uh meal prep stuff for the PBC. We dropped we bought our uh bowls and plates. That's about our level of contribution this year. This is all that we can manage in our household. Um but we're contributing. Uh
068and the end of the quarter is on Friday. So we're already through a quarter this school year. It's just incredible how fast it's gone. Um, we have girls playing soccer right now at a home playoff soccer game against Proer. Really proud of our girls. They uh finished with their best 2A record in history. So, they've had a really successful um season and they're very young team. They're only losing a handful of seniors and they have some just dynamic freshman, sophomore, and junior. So, they'll be even better next year. So, that's really exciting. Um, WAZA conference is everybody signed up for a pre Rita you got you reached out to Velma I think you're doing with the students you're doing with the students and Dana shoot me a text I don't know if you can respond
069>> schedule which one is the student >> there's a one in the morning around >> yeah Thursday morning >> okay >> I I'll go I'll go look >> I thought it was Wednesday evening >> uh I don't think I'll go look I'll get back to you guys I'll have a double backup of the schedule and we'll I'll start working on itineraries for the board members too, just where we're going, where we're eating, and in case you'll know. So, we'll we'll get that down in >> um retreat dates were hard to pin down um to get everybody at one spot. So, at board leadership in November, we'll try to come up with a game plan for uh extenduation of the or extension of the retreat. Uh one thing that you guys kind of heard about us
070talking before you came in, SNAP benefits are ending on Friday. uh pending there is an a a end to the government shutdown and we're getting a lot of calls and just confusion that that parents and families think that our our lunch program will also end. So our lunch program does not end. Our students still receive breakfast, they still receive lunch and it doesn't impact our bite to go program. So the bite to go program serves about 400 kids. So they'll still be receiving the bite to go for the weekend assistance. So that is happening. Um in addition to that we have you know we're getting two different dates state wick um program will the the date we have one for mid- November and one is ending at the end of November. We're still trying to
071pin down which date that is. >> The wick people don't know yet um exactly when the events will run out. So we I confirmed that today that um the wick people themselves don't know when it runs out. It's going to be sometime this month unless something changes. And then uh we're also doing a food drive during conferences. So staff and parents that are are wanting to contribute. Um it's a it's a tough time for the the our our food banks generally during this time. They start to run a little bit low. Um so we'll be running a food drive in all of our schools too. So board if you guys want to contribute feel free to to drop off food at at any of the schools. So that is all I have. Any questions for
072me? Nope. Thank you, sir. >> Right. >> Student report. I understand there's no students. >> No. >> I don't think I have anything productive to contribute. Diana, do you have anything to contribute from board leadership? >> Not on my end. >> Okay. And so we'll go on to policy review and adoption. uh first reading. It's just a review and summary. If we have any notes we want to add on the first readings was 5010 the one that we tabled. >> Yes. >> So that is up for >> uh it's just up for first reading again. We put it back. >> Yep. And we did strike those examples like that [snorts] out. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. Okay. There's no questions on the first reading. Then we're into the second reading and adoption. Any questions on
073the >> Well, that link is still not >> refreshing. >> Okay. So, we had some link issues. So, >> mine still says the 23rd on mine. Sean, >> mine does as well. >> So, uh, they have the wrong policies for the 23rd. So, you know, I would recommend, Chad, that we bring these back to our next meeting in November. My apologies that the we're having some link issues here. Um, >> for November for November 10th. >> And we can and we can include the other four. Uh none of these are policies up there that you know other than the oath of office but I mean that's RCW we have to we have an oath that we have to follow that will change a little bit. Um but there's nothing that we can't uh postpone. Does
074that work for the group? >> Yeah. I did have a question on one of the policies that I was going through and I don't think it's any of >> It would have been the old links. I apologize for that. >> Okay. >> If you haven't ask me about >> it was it was if we had a sex offender or a um what was the other one? Sex trafficker maybe. Anyway, if they were brought back into the school district that we are forced to tell everyone, including the students, that this person has been institutionalized for sex offending. How do you get around his not being his or her not being bullied by the kids if they can all be alerted? >> I don't I would have to go back and research that a little bit. Um
075>> I don't know if I I know what it is policy 3143 and >> I don't believe the entire student body gets to know but I know all the teachers. Well, it said the parents and students would be alerted. And I'm thinking, man, I I wouldn't think it'd be safe for the >> Let me research that. And in fact, you can even ask We can That's a really good question for our executive session tonight. >> Um because Garrett will be on with us later. We can even ask him about that. >> Better find it for you. >> No, I can find I'll find >> the computer over there. >> I'll I'll find it. Read it. But I thought, man, I just >> convicted attending the elementary school attended by their victims parents of convicted social
076shall be responsible for providing transportation coming out of the cross. That's not >> go down further than >> superending violent offenses. >> And I think the the link is where if you refresh the agenda, >> you got to refresh the agenda page. >> Yes. >> And click on the link again. Go to the new. Okay. The superintendent does any upon school principles and staff should be known to get there. >> It's the policy. I don't we don't have a it's not a procedure. It's a policy. >> Is that reaction? >> I thought it was. >> Yeah. >> I thought it was a procedure. It's not >> I don't know. I haven't checked the procedure yet. I was trying to find it. Usually they correlate with each other. So if it's interior should stay there. >>
077I don't No, there isn't the procedure. >> I'm not seeing anywhere where it says principal if a student is classified as staff to every teacher of the student and to any other person who in the principal the student security should be aware of the student record. It does not say anything about student >> talking about has already been convicted. >> Correct. >> Okay. Vict juvenile sex offenders are prohibited from attending the elementary middle school attended by their victims and their victim civily. The parents are legal guard to the convicted children responsible for providing transportation coveration. >> Right. >> There's nothing that says >> the way it's been done has been been has been with staff that are getting pulled down. >> So up here it says with staff. >> What page are you on Shannon?
078>> Yeah. This down for the >> So So we just introduce So there is a notification they can threaten by that student. We're supposed to tell the students to employ if they've been threatened by by any student really, you know. >> Correct. But not not because >> just because they came in with that >> but not because they came in with that offense. Correct. >> Oh, I see. Notification of threats or violence. Students and who are social threats will be notified of the threats in the threats of the violence or harm. It's direct or indirect issues. So just a couple. >> So if the if a threat comes in, we will notify >> then if it's not that then maybe it is the procedure >> and we'll notify the parent or guardian of the student
079who was the target. So if they threaten another student then yes we will let the we we we obviously and and as per practice we let the family know that you were threatened or targeted by the student. >> That's built into our level one threat assessment. >> Yes. >> Yeah. But no we don't we don't if we have one of those students come to our school we can't share that information widely. >> Well I wouldn't think so. I have this. >> So, are we still putting the this one on hold due to >> Well, this this one's already been approved because that's the one that was approved on the 23rd. The one if you do if you [clears throat] go back >> to the 28th. And now, if you refresh, Sean, it's fixed that >>
080the October 28th agenda. >> See, it still comes up. Sean, for mine, >> you got to refresh the >> agenda agenda agenda page. Can't even just the agenda. Casey says it, it makes when Casey says it, it makes sense. >> I see it now. So, I mean, it's up to the board if you want. We could easily delay this for another uh meeting or if we want to adopt it tonight, we can. >> Totally different. I haven't read any of that. They're so >> we can none of them need to be adopted tonight. >> Thank you. Let's push it to the next meeting. Okay. >> So, uh policies for review and adoption is tabled until the the next meeting. >> Yep. >> And uh no unfinished business. But >> wait, would we be able to
081uh approve the first reading so it moves on to second reading next time? >> The automatically yes, it will it will get pulled to second reading next time. have to do anything to make that happen. >> Yeah, that's just review. >> Okay, thank you. >> Yep. Yep. >> Good clarification. Thank you. And then uh new business uh just kind of closing out our discussion on the the levy renewal. >> Yeah, there was a lot of information last time. >> Yeah. Let's do it. >> So, I guess the goal today is to come up with uh what our number is, what we're comfortable asking for in the levy uh on this goound. >> Does it need to be a motion? [clears throat] >> No. No. What will happen is so you know the the dollar amount
082rate that's just a best guess. So you'd approve the total amount as and that will be part of a resolution for um the November meeting and that's where you would approve it and it's generally part of the consent agenda. >> So I think we all agreed that $125 was okay. I thought a$120 it this is sort of the medium middle of the road because I feel it still says that we know we have uh we're in a good place compared to a lot of schools in the >> we're doing very well >> and this will definitely take care of us. It might not cover everything that we've got on our agenda. I was reading through that, but um it'll take care of the important stuff. I don't know. That's just my opinion. >> And only
083elevating that what 20 cents, wasn't it? A$130 if >> No, we weren't any more than a dollar. >> No, no, no. I'm talking about their increase. >> Who's there? What do you mean? >> The voters increase. >> Oh, no. We're at 111 now. But they but at about 25 >> and because of property value increases it came out to about 12 per thousand is what it corrected last year >> and that could happen again >> easily. So with some of the some of the cuts have happened and some you know you know right sizing >> right sizing right >> if we I think if we go too low we don't improve on that and the risk that this happens because we're locking in this for four years >> correct it's a four years >> right
084so we don't know what's going to happen two three four years down the road and my fear is that something happens costs increase in three or four years from now or four years when we're looking at at renewing the levy again. We're so upside down that we're asking for the max >> and I don't want to be in that position. >> The dollar so the other thing too is yeah we could go for a$120 but they're not know the general public isn't going to realize oh so well that's good because you didn't ask for a$125. They don't realize that that's the the potential we could go to. >> Should we go even more than that but >> 150 right? >> Right. 150 and so it's like that to them 120 to 125 regardless we're still
085doing an increase as to what they're paying now the 125 is what they approved last time and so using be able to say this is what you approved last time we would like that again it's easier >> they did approve 125 >> yes that gives me a whole different perspective okay >> and prior to that they approved $150 so we did drop it 25 cents but unfortunately you know the current rate if it stays as is it would with the cost of of just doing business it just wouldn't keep us there. It is not the current rate has not kept up with inflation where that $1.25 that gives us enough money where it just our insurance t and I were talking today our insurance bill alone is 1.1 million >> 1.2 2 million. So that
086does at least covers what we're having to divert from our MSOC funds um or excuse me take from our levy funds just to cover MSOC right now. So that money would go back to our student programs and the safety and security programs that we offer here in >> which and I I really appreciate Casey's point too is that we don't want to get stuck in three four years down the road and not come like we might stay at 112, we might go there, but this still gives us that leg room to say nope, we got to we got to adjust again. And it stair steps pretty healthy in the four years where the last levy it didn't stair step enough to keep up where this this does stair step enough up enough where it it
087would it would help us. Ty anything you want to add? >> Um I think my only thought is if like Nick said we are approving a total dollar amount best guess that it's a$125. In fact, I think it's pretty conservative and I would assume that especially [clears throat] by like year two and three, we're going to be well under a$125. Um, so I I think it's it's not a lie to say, you know, you approved a$125 and look what we got for the money and look what we've done with it and we're going to continue to do that. And I would say the$125 rate and the increase that we get it, we don't have to go back and ask for $900,000 for uh Chromebooks, >> a tech levy >> or a tech levy because a
088lot of districts, especially now that they're going onetoone when there's so much emphasis on tech, you're going to see a lot of communities run tech levies. With Alyssa's law, you're going to see a lot of communities run safety and security levies. We've been really lucky that our levy rate provides, you know, we're I'm very thankful and very it's a very gracious amount and uh but it provides at that $125 rate enough for us for our tech and for our safety and security needs. We don't have to run se separate and you know potential you know some capital improvement. So it's it's a it's a low rate um that goes a really long way here in Quincy because it is it is a good amount. I think when we're talking about, you know, mass scores and
089growth, like none of that gets better if we don't have the money to pursue it. >> That's very true. >> What does Diana and Chad think? >> I'm I'll comfortable with the 125. I think we've proven we're good stewards of the the taxpayers financing of us to this point. I I think um Tia's record and the district's record with managing the funds has been really good, which is a good show point, but I I share the concern of Casey that things, you know, the inflationary rates and the factors that are out of our control are only increasing. It doesn't seem that there's going to be a great windfall, especially while, you know, spending at the state level seems to be going higher and higher and the general there's kind of a feeling out there that
090we're spending money and not getting results. So my fear if anything is that the state funding could shift in the wrong direction. So if we could secure ourselves against unknowns and still be conservative with our our tax base, I think that's that's a good move. >> You're cutting out really bad Diana. I'm going to have her put it in the chat here just so we can >> Oh, she says 125 is good. >> Okay. All right. and we so we'll get that resolution for our our November meeting and you won't see the dollar rate because again that's just it's a best guess and you know as you saw in the presentation that Corey did there's only been one time where we haven't hit that mark um and went up two cents but um I've talking
091with port and just the growth that's coming to Quincy that assess value is going to continue to grow but I'd rather be conservative That'll be good. >> Great. >> Yeah. Thank you for that. Uh and then any requests for future topics. >> I still would like to discuss our districtwide no cell phones in schools. >> Okay. >> We get that added to our our list and then um >> Sorry, Chad. I hopefully the sound is a lot better now, but I had shared with Nick um an interest in just understanding how the school district >> uh handles like the investigations in uh into bullying and just the different protocols. So, he did say he added it in there because I wasn't able to add it manually, but um that is of interest to me. >>
092And I just Dan I I labeled that uh harassment, intimidation, bullying response. >> Yes, perfect. Uh it's really just an interest in the internal uh process of how that's handled, investigated, communicated back out to the families and to those affected. So perfect. Thank you. >> Goodbye. >> Yeah, great great ad. Okay, if there's no other requests, we are on to our executive session and thank you everybody for joining us tonight. >> And and can I say Sean, wait to stick with it, buddy. >> [laughter]