NHCS Board of Ed. Agenda Review Meeting | April 28, 2026

001Good afternoon, Pete Wildeboer. Melissa Mason. Here. Josie Barnhart. >> Here. Pat Bradford. >> I am here. Judy Justice. Dr. Tim Merrick. In the house. And David Perry. Here. Uh again, thank you all for being here and to our senior staff, thank you for being here and those new audience, thank you for being here. Um next order of business will be our invocation and we'll follow that with our pledge allegiance and we have asked Ms. Justice to lead that for today. So, it says so. It says so right there. I am Gill Tabor. I am the pastor of Salt Inclusive Methodist Community and I invite you to pray with me, y'all. Holy One, today as we gather to do the work of providing for the education of all the children in New Hanover County, we first

002pause to remember to be grateful. We give thanks for the absolute joy of living in this beautiful place and for the beauty of your creation and our mandate to care for all that is in it, especially the children who are often seen as the least among pray not just for the physical safety of all the students and teachers in our schools, but that we would be creating spaces where all are seen, heard and appreciated. Not just because Not just because of our differences, but because just as beautiful music is made and harmony comes from blending of different voices, so the beauty of humanity shines in our differences. Guide us as we face times of concern and fear that our choices and our vision will be ever toward all and especially to all of those who

003are most vulnerable. May the decisions made here be inclusive and equitable. Even when we have difference of opinions, give us a spirit of unity. Help us not just to listen to others as they share their point of view, but to hold them in full regard for all of our shared humanity. Aid us and aid this body to work as a unified team as they lead New Hanover County Schools. May every child and family know their worth and their value to this body and to the community at large. In our ever-changing world, we pray for these board members and for the various level of official and staff who serve the students and the families of New Hanover County Schools. Bless this body with their decisions that it would be a benefit to all those who work

004for, attend or have a child or person for whom they care in New Hanover County Schools. We offer this in all the names of the one we call holy. Amen. Ms. Justice. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Next, I would entertain a a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Second. We have first and second. Any discussion? Yes, sir. Dr. Merrick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to add to the agenda a conversation that has been brought to us, I think, by the public. >> [clears throat] >> As of today, by my count, we have over 120 emails from the public uh on on all sides concerned about our

005choice to change or not change the student work day from the four or the teacher work day from the fourth to the first. And I'd like to add that to the agenda so that we can discuss not only for the public's sake, but actually for my sake because I was not present at that meeting and I didn't know it was going to be voted on. Thank you. Okay, is there a second? >> Second. Okay, we have first and second. We write it down. I think Dr. Merrick and Ms. Justice. Is there a discussion? Well, I will follow the motions. It is Thank you. So, I I hear all the concerns and I think they're all valid. If I do a simple pros and cons list, here's what I come up with. Student safety has to

006be our number one concern and my concern is if we don't have enough educators or substitutes in the buildings, that becomes a safety risk. Um I've heard that we have some 300 teachers that have asked for the leave and have been granted and for that I am I think that's excellent that our district could provide that. I'm also concerned that there might be some educators who simply walk out even though that's not the policy that they should follow. Uh so, I am concerned we're not going to have enough kids in school. I'm concerned that instructional time will be compromised because we all know substitutes are not quite the same. Is this the discussion or is this We're We're talking about adding it to the agenda, not actually having the discussion. We Yeah, we are not

007having a discussion at this point, obviously. Well, then I'm I'm happy to I'm happy to point I will. Uh I I find that that is that is well received. So, I will hold my comments till later, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. Thank you. Mr. Perry. This is whether today again, the topic right now is whether to add a discussion of May 1st discussion day uh to the to the agenda today. Um I'm I'm I'm speaking opposition to adding it. We had this opportunity 2 weeks ago, which was still short notice. I was on the fence about it then because I wouldn't think there was enough notice to parents. If you If we were to reconsider it now, it would be literally 3 days of which is not nearly enough to our parents to make arrangements for

008their children. So, I am against us discussing this what whatsoever as far as um uh in further, you know, reconsidering our decision. Um as I have told others in the community, had this come be- before us 3 months ago, I probably would have voted differently than a few weeks ago, but we just didn't get it in time. Ms. Justice. More than any other reason we need to be discussing this is because of our staff. Once more, we're 50th in the nation in per pupil student expenditure. That's why they're going to Raleigh. And our staff is very concerned and needs this opportunity to have themselves heard. And it's our responsibility to support our staff. And as a parent, a grandparent, it might as well be a parent and has gone through this from my first kid,

009I'm over 40 years experience with kids at home and I can tell you right now, they can handle two or three days. It could snow tomorrow, it won't, but I mean, you'd still have to make arrangements. This is too important to our staff and anybody up here that doesn't realize how powerful this is, the message you're sending, um you'll find out because it's not fair to them. And And I'm going to speak to it quickly and then we'll vote on it. Um we we did have, as was mentioned, we did have this discussion 2 weeks ago when there was a you know, there was a reasonable amount of time to make the decision. As was said, I think 3 days is not enough. Uh the 20th will be going to the legislative the legislators with

010teachers and board members to discuss these topics. I met with a legislator a representative Yeah, okay. >> [clears throat] >> All right, I'll I'll call myself on that. We'll go ahead. I will I and I will say that that is well taken. So, I I You caught me. I'm I'm just going on, but uh Ms. Bradford. I will vote against it and yes, yesterday we did meet with the state representative and we shared the budget concerns with him in person. So, I feel strongly that we are presenting the concerns of the teachers and teachers' pay very comprehensively. Okay. And Ms. Blue, would you please again, the the motion here? Yes, sir. Mr. Because I was uh called out for speaking incorrectly about the I would like to now address Okay, please go ahead. because the

011reason I wanted to put this on the agenda is because we have 120 emails, which I know that means we have at least 1,200 people out there concerned about this. And I think it deserves a broader discussion. They obviously have already heard the discussion that we did have and the fact that they still have so many concerns suggests that we owe it to the public to to, you know, flesh out the rest of our thinking so that they can have an understanding of where we're coming from. >> Okay. Thank you. Again, the the motion in front of us is to add a discussion about May 1st, the NCAA um rally in in Raleigh. Raleigh in Raleigh. There we go. So, is that that right? Yes. Okay. Ms. Bullock, would you please call the roll? Ms.

012Mason. No. Ms. Justice. Yes. Ms. Bradford. No. Dr. Merrick. Yes. Mr. Wildeboer. No. Mr. Perry. No. And Ms. Barnhart. No. So, that is defeated five to two, so that will not be added. >> [clears throat] >> So, I will again entertain a motion to approve the agenda. We already had that motion and second. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of approving the agenda, please signify by saying I. I. All opposed. Passes 7-0. Okay. We will go as we have always. Uh we'll go through the agenda, the draft agenda, and we will discuss uh each thing. Please uh you know, just jump in and if we have any questions or concerns, we will add, you know, them or or discuss them, not add them necessarily, but um call to order, roll call, invocation, national

013anthem, pledge of allegiance. Who would like to do the pledge? Let's Let's Let's go with Dr. Merrick. Dr. Merrick. I think you did last. Well, okay. Merrick. All right, approval of agenda, approval of minutes, committee reports. I think we have several this time. You'll have finance for sure. We have finance. >> have a curriculum meeting. Other ones? We have finance, other? Yes. We have legislative. >> Legislative has the the revised legislative agenda, but if it's the Wildeboer to put it in the committee port reports are under old business, either one because they're we're potentially approving the legislative agenda that was sent back to committee. So. Maybe we could do the discussion at that point and then just move it down to new business, but we'll get to that later on. Okay, so not under committee

014reports. Well, let's We will We will you know, we could have that definitely at that time. The majority of the meat of it, I guess it was. Okay. Any other committees we know of? No? Okay. So, maybe we won't take Let Let's put it down to 10 minutes then. And I'm sorry. Ms. Mason, would you please keep up Yeah. Yeah, you're you're on top of it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Recognitions. What do we miss? Okay. Old to 20. Always happy. Student voice, we're I love to see that back in place, so we will hear from a student or two or a group. Yeah. Sorry. Um Or not. >> We have so many awesomeness, I double booked this. And my argument is that we won't have one in June because the kids will be home.

015Okay. So, there was just There was Someone was already on the docket and then I met some kid who was so amazing that I added them too. So, if you're okay, we'll probably need 20 minutes for that. >> 20 minutes. I Let me see hearing from kids. Woo! Yep, okay. >> I'm right, aren't I? We have two. >> Can we Can we say half hour? I Can we spend the whole meeting doing that? I mean, that would be awesome. But all right, we will go to 20 minutes there. >> [laughter] >> Excuse me. May student voice, 10 minutes. Teacher voice, sorry. See, I'm focused. Let me offer clarification. So, um we had three. My last one has not confirmed, so we're going to leave that one alone. We have a student coming from Porters Neck

016and family, and then um the other request was for our teacher cadet group from Laney to speak, and we've added them as teacher voice. Oh, okay. Well, that So, the time still works, 10 and 10. >> Yeah. That's why I just I'm not really supposed to say anything. Okay. Well, that's so we have student, student, and more students in. That's awesome. So, very very cool. So, bring that back to No, it's uh 20 She >> No, 10 minutes. 10 for each. Okay. Okay. Corrected. What did I tell you? 10 and 10. So, okay, very cool. >> 10 for teacher, 20 for teacher. No, uh 10 and 10. 10 for student, 10 for teacher. Right. Mhm. Back to 10 and 10. Ignore anything I said in the last 2 minutes. That's going to make it simple.

017All right, student uh superintendent's report. 5 minutes? Okay. Um mine will also be 5 minutes. Information, the elementary uh ELA curriculum uh overview. How long will that take? With questions and everything? Um could she have 10 minutes to do that? If not, we can do it in five. Oh, we we can say 10. Is that with questions? 10 with questions, yeah. 10 with questions, okay. That's what we'll do. Call to audience remains at 60. All right, now's the time for anything else you may have. We have consensus items um and we have given a lot of 5 minutes for that to speak. Uh learning master service agreement. Ma'am? I would just love it if somebody could shed some light on this. I can do that. That um is the contract that we have to staff

018um the International School of Gregory um for those Spanish speaking teachers. We've used them for different languages in the past, but right now that's what we use it for. And how many are we needing to Uh they're on a rotating basis, so depending on how many years the teacher has been here, how you know, how much time they have left. Um so, we we usually kind of roll anywhere between like three and six, but we stay staffed somewhere between eight and 10. Okay. So, the the visa that is done with a Participate company, and I will tell you that if anyone has ever had to try to do a visa for an educator, it is a lot. So, this company sort of does all that work for us. The cost that we have to pay

019Participate, the teachers that come to us internationally don't receive retirement benefits, so it really sort of balances the cost out, and those people can stay for 3 years, and then we can authorize them if they are doing well to stay for an additional two. They are required to go back home after 5 years and then cycle back, but this is a company we've worked with. This is a renewal, so it's one we've worked with before. Okay. Starbase Wilmington MOU. Mr. Chair? Yes, ma'am. I would just love to know how many of our schools are able to participate in this opportunity. I know um this is something that's sought after all throughout the Southeast, and so to have it right here in our backyard is a wonderful thing, but I just wasn't sure how many schools

020actually get the opportunity. Um over the last 3 years, we've had 16 schools participate. Um and there is a typo. It should say that this is a renewal contract. Renewal? A renewal MOU, I'm sorry. Thank you. Uh contracts extending into fiscal year 2027. Nothing? Okay. Microsoft EES agreement with uh Softchoice. I think this is just in reference to this crossover for our educators to go from Google to Outlook. Ms. Benson. No, this is a yearly contract. It actually covers the operating system on our computers, the operating system on our servers, um security features, um and disaster recovery as well. We use them, so it's multiple things. It's not just the the migration. Contracts and purchase orders. Uh Winter Park um lift station replacement. I just like to know what a lift station means. Oh, it's

021it's for the septic, but Go ahead. Oh, you don't want to know. So, the lift station I'm assuming it's it's wheelchair accessible. No, it's not. The lift station is used to uh pump sewage from our septic tanks up so that it can then be flushed out to connect with the sewage line. That's I'm really glad that you brought this to us cuz I'm, you know, yeah, thanks. Lift station. >> A lot of poop in the world. >> Not a not a pumping station, a lift station, okay. That's good. Okay. And I want to say that Rob's so good, he's number one in the number two business. >> [laughter] >> Okay, on that high note, we'll carry on. DHHS transport contract. Agreement at Hometown Ticketing renewal. I have a question about that. Can you Can you

022explain this and what we're looking for exactly? And then I like it. Please. Uh we have been using um Hometown Ticketing again as a renewal. We've used them for several years in a row to help manage our capacities and manage our um tickets for our athletic events. Well, let's go to Ms. uh Justice in the back. I want to have that pulled so we can have a discussion. Okay. We'll let it go. We'll do that next week. We'll do that next week. We'll have to figure out a time. Mr. Perry. Um The uh um Are we still uh not taking cash from non-students at the at the tickets? So, for regular athletic events, um we have not been taking cash at the gate because we have not um built into the budget a process for

023adding the security and the um those to collect the cash at the gate. So that would that would be a a budgetary need. And and we can we're going to pull it so we'll we'll discuss it further next week. So we'll add some time to do that though. Yes, ma'am. Well, my question because I believe we do have a cash option for our students. You're it's just not at the gate is my understanding. So we still do sell cash tickets, but it's at the school or is that incorrect? So we have offered many Yeah, we've offered many options for students to pay cash ahead of time and for a ticket to be reserved for them. We also while I'm just going to say it out loud for transparency, we we don't want it to be

024overused, but if a student comes to an athletic event and they want to be in and they don't have they only have cash, we're not going to turn a student away. So we have a a commitment to making sure our students who want to participate and be there for athletic events that we can do that. We just also have a difficult time managing that amount of cash unless we have someone designated that is trained in the handling of a level of cash and then also have security for them to feel safe at that gate. We'll discuss that even more next week. So we'll add some time to do that. Um Thank you, Ms. Varnum. Western Governors University MOU MOU with YMCA, YWCA and NC Swim. I was delighted to see that every school was included

025in this one this year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. I I encourage you guys to come to the YMCA breakfast as well. Um they're going to be working on ways to continue this program. Yeah, that's awesome. Swimming. My kids all swam and it was it was Uh let's see where I agreement between New Hanover County uh Board of Education and Coastal Horizon and what clinic renewal. Uh MOU with the Educational Without Walls renewal amendment to contract between New Hanover County Schools and Learning Perspectives Inc. That one I have a question about. Okay, go ahead. Um I'm trying to remember this from last time, but I just think that it it's special ed. It started in July of 25. Original contract amount was 3,000 uh three 3,696 dollars. It's gone up uh 1,675%. When

026we tell people that our costs are going up, this is a perfect example of a radical increase in cost. The change orders are um uh almost 600,000 dollars. Uh the previous ones. This one's only 31,000 dollars, but the contract went from from a reasonable amount to just a huge amount and it's just one more example of everything that we're doing costs more. Yeah. Um I just wanted to point that out. So no questions. Okay. So yes, sir. I thought I had asked about this last time because I said the same thing. I said, "How in the world did it get from there to there?" Because that's a heck of a change order, but I think it was explained away perhaps perhaps Ms. Sutton can enlighten us again. Yes, uh Ms. Sutton I can explain that

027for you. Okay. >> Um generally we do spend um a a significant amount of money with um this type of service and specifically with Learning Perspectives. The original contract amount was um established for us to get our contract in place prior to our dollars arriving from all the the many sources that our special education dollars arrive from. We did not expect to only spend 3,600 dollars on Learning Perspectives. We expected to spend a significant amount of money because our students have significant needs that Learning Perspectives provides for us under a contract service. So this is an an annual occurrence where I come back and bring you significant increase to this contract in order to address the needs of our students. Okay. And just for time's sake either Ms. Justice, Ms. Varnum or the two of

028you together, how much time do you think we will need to to further discuss the Hometown ticketing? No more than five. Five more? Okay, so so so we'll add five minutes there to Well, how how is the time going? We'll do 10. We'll do 10. Okay, let's do 10. And if you guys would do me a favor and either text me or Julie what your questions are so I can make sure we have them ready to answer. You probably already know that we're getting this. Mhm. Yeah, right. Okay, so that that'll give us 15 minutes total. So we have 10 minutes, five minutes for the consensus [snorts] items and then we'll I'll have a 10 minute for for letter H of the Hometown ticketing renewal discussion. Okay. All right, going over to policy looking to

029my right to Ms. Mason. We have 15 minutes allotted. Does that sound about right? So just to be clear I've spoken with Ms. Bowie about separating them because two of them are ones that the board sent back or were things that we had discussed. The remaining ones are just small little legislative updates. And so those will be separated. Hopefully those will not take much time at all and the other two I don't know how much discussion we need to have. I'm going to say 10. 10 total or Does that other policy people Does that seem reasonable? You think 15? Okay, 15 is fine. Is that fair? I'm sorry I haven't had an opportunity to review the that policy consensus yet, but I the Would that include the change that we finally made about public audience?

030So the two policies that will be separate are 2310 and 3540. Those are the ones that those were board changes. The remaining ones are all NCSBA updates. So A majority of those are just the legal right Super all all of those are Okay, we have 15 minutes for old business, but I don't see anything under old business. Yes, there Oh, would you like to add something to old business? >> Yes, the legislative committee met yesterday and so we have the updated legislative agenda for the board to approve. So I would move that we add this under old business. Okay, we can do that. First and second. Any discussion on adding legislative agenda? And then my only discussion about that Okay. Okay. All in favor of adding legislative agenda, please signify by saying I. I. All

031opposed like sign. Passes 7-0. Back to you, ma'am. My only point of discussion it was sent to committee to rechange some verbage of it and so that's what the committee spent time doing yesterday to try to better reflect what the board's needs are. One thing that did come to attention and and I can save this part for discussion if you want me to. Um there when you click on our website, you can see New Hanover County Board of Education Legislative Agenda Items and it's kind of that blue sheet that those bigger priorities, but then if you click on the about us for New Hanover County Schools, it goes into great detail with all the stats specifically related to New Hanover County. And so I wanted to draw attention to that because I think that's helpful

032with the explanation process. And if you scroll down to the about bottom of the about us page, it shows some of the highlights that we have been able to receive specifically for New Hanover County Schools to advocate for our students and staff. There you go. Um and so those are some of the things that over the last few years we've we have specifically gotten that's not necessarily applicable to the rest of the state. Um so I did want to just point that out to everybody listening. And how much time do you think we need? I I I think 15 minutes will totally be fine. I don't think we need that much. Um I had reached out to and taken the feedback and tried to compile it in a way that reflected everybody everything that I

033heard from everybody. So Okay, that's fine. The other thing that will need to be on old business, we are discussing the budget today, but it will be needed to be voted on for approval as well. So if we could put that in old business. Obviously we have all our questions answered today, that shouldn't take much time next week. >> Okay, I'll make a motion we add budget to budget approval to our old business. Any discussion on that? Hearing none, all in favor please signify by saying I. All opposed like sign. Passes 7-0. And again why don't we say 20 minutes total for that whole you know not all of old business. So now that's fine. Dr. Burns Will will the legislative committee please send out by email ASAP because we're putting something on the agenda

034that we don't have. I know it's up there. I know it's online, but I don't think I should have to go search for it. Please send it to me. Absolutely, we'll do that. Thank you. Can I Can I Is it fair to say Dr. Burns can it be by the end of the day today or first thing tomorrow? We have a lot going on this week. I I we're committed to getting it as fast as we can. Okay. And just a question, can we not send the old copy Can you send the old copy to him? Did you? You guys want to see the old copy? Just pass it around. I mean the old copy that we changed. That's the old copy, right. We'll get it to you as soon as we can. Okay. Okay,

035right. We we we talked about the old copy and we sent it back for Right, but I mean the the updated one, but there's not pretty it up one. Got it. Yeah. What was that noise? Okay, that's what I was doing. All right, that's all I get. All right, try try. All right, uh any new business? I don't think we have any new business? Close session. Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Perry, yes sir. Uh my understanding was unless something changed that I made a motion to add to the agenda regarding a legislative uh work day for the uh uh next upcoming school year. Um Is that the new new business? Yes, you did. So, we and that's the So, we have to That's why we discuss these things. So, that's exactly So, we do have new

036business. Uh legislative work day. That What What What was the title again? I'm sorry. A legislative work day for >> Okay. for the '26-'27 calendar. Um I That might take I know there's there's a lot around that that I'm guessing maybe 15 minutes. '20-'27, 15 minutes, okay. For the ease of the board, I did pull out all the work days we already have in the calendar for that year. Mhm. So, that'll make it simpler for us to look at. And since it's not here, would you make the motion to add that? Oh, okay. I make a motion to add the uh '26-'27 legislative work day discussion uh to the new business. Okay, and I'll second that. Any discussion? Yes. Yeah. What would it look like? Is it like a special meeting that we just discuss

037that? Or does the calendar committee discuss that? Or what does that look like? Well, we're going to We're going to discuss it next week. Okay. And then we'll go through, you know, exactly what it will I think Mr. Perry's going to bring forth his ideas and then we can discuss it. Okay. Whether we do it, you know, it's not It's not on the calendar yet. Uh but Yeah. The calendar's already set for next year, I I believe, right? So, we have to We would have to uh address that. But if you if you choose to do it on a day that's already designated as a work day, you won't have to change the calendar. Right. Which is why I put both days together so we know. Perfect. Seems like you just said that. I appreciate

038that. Make sure. >> [laughter] >> Oh, wow. Good me. All right. Um and I think that ends our Of course, we only have close session if we need it. Uh personnel report, correspondence is 5 minutes, announcement 5 minutes, and then adjournment. Ms. Mason, where are we Where are we? >> Not counting correspondence and announcements, we're over. Over, and we also probably need 5 minutes. I added the 5 minutes for bathroom. Yes, we're at um 3 hours and What's 75% of an hour? 45, 3 hours 45. So, about 15 minutes over. So, we're 15 over. >> the will of board? Do we want to suspend the rules and go 15 minutes over? Do we want to delete something? Ms. Justice. I move that we go 15 minutes over, suspend the rules if we Okay, is there

039a second? Yeah, I'll second the conversation. Okay. So, we have a first and second. Uh Let's Let's have Let's have a conversation. Ms. Justice, please. >> Why why should we, you know, crunch for 15 minutes? That's hard. Because we're going to be sitting here and probably say it anyway at some point most likely during the meeting. Mhm. So, let's just plan ahead and maybe just stay within that parameter. That's my Ms. Mason. Ms. Mason, please. So, um a couple months ago we voted to make it 3 and 1/2 hours. And we still haven't met that 3 and 1/2 hours. And it's policy and we still haven't met that 3 and 1/2 hours. So, we either need to reconsider policy or we need to abide by policy. That's my opinion. Dr. Merrick and Ms. Bradford. Well,

040I remember when I voted on it, I said I think it is aspirational. And I think when we need to, we will go over. But I think the real question is we were being very maybe a little bit lax today and generous with our time and perhaps we can take a look at what we put down for time today and tighten it up because that was the idea of saying 3 and 1/2 hours. So, I I'm okay about suspending the rules and going to 3:45, but I think it's also worth saying, "Hey, maybe we can tighten this up." Mhm. Ms. Bradford. And I be in favor of tightening that. And if we can't do it, then dropping something, maybe the last thing we added. If that's not urgent, would it hurt to wait a month?

041Um because I I agree with Vice Chair Mason. Policy is policy. When we can do it, we should do it. Um and not immediately start to say, "We passed that, but you know, we're not going to do it." Um and on top of that, I like getting out of here in 3 and 1/2 hours. Mhm. We have a lot of meetings. Ms. Barnhart and then Mr. Perry. Thank you. I I agree with keeping to the 3 and 1/2 hour and reflecting on either condensing time or pushing something to the next meeting. Uh this is something that not all these things have to be discussed at this meeting. And so, we can look at and say either we can shorten the discussion and have more one-on-ones with people so that we're at a good conversation when

042it comes to the meeting to do to come together and I think we should do it. Okay, Mr. Perry. Um uh as far as the last item that I added, I'm more than happy to have discussions with people between now and then, so maybe we can tighten that down. At least take 5 minutes off of that. Um the the um you know, assuming everybody would like to have discussions, I would be one-on-one because it's it's just an idea at this point. You And I'm sure you have a lot to add to it. Um the um but I do think it's important that we do it and not just cut it and wait till next month. We are in a situation where a lot of teachers are questioning whether we are on their side or not,

043and I think this would be a good message to them that we are. And you know, I haven't So, someone to speak. You know, you know, I do see, you know, uh it's I'm going to go back to the days of Ms. Justice and I back when we used to have, you know, 8 and 9-hour meetings. So, 4 hours always seemed like a great, you know, a great great move. Uh 3 and 1/2 is even better, but you know, and that kind of thing. Um but you know, I do I do hear what Mr. Perry is saying. I think that, you know, as Dr. Merrick just brought up, you know, maybe even have a discussion today about this this same topic. And if we can move forward and do something proactive for them for, you

044know, for our staff for next year, I you know, I think it's probably worth a 10-minute discussion. That but still puts us over, uh you know, and I do understand we have a policy that says 3 and 1/2 hours, and that's why I'm, you know, kind of a, you know, kind of a uh I don't know. Anyway, I don't I don't I won't use my words to describe myself, but I I'm a stickler on on trying to get everybody, you know, as as quickly done with things as possible. But again, we have a job to do, and I think that's what we need to do. So, um Ms. Bradford and then I think it would be reasonable to do that, and we could honor the request over there and just go ahead and schedule it

045for the June meeting, get it on the agenda for the June meeting. So, that it doesn't get overlooked. Cuz I think isn't the Didn't the rule Wasn't the rule when you asked to have something put on the agenda the board chair has two meetings to get it on? It still fall within that parameter, and we'd know that we're going to hear it. So, I would be in favor of that. I can't remember if we have a motion on the floor right now or not. I think we do. We do from Ms. Justice to suspend the rules. Ms. Justice. Okay, Dr. Merrick. Well, I'm also noticing that we've got 5 minutes for correspondence, and I don't know that any of us have any correspondence. Oh, you didn't count that. Okay. The other thing uh I was

046thinking of is the the uh consensus item H that we're going to pull. I'm wondering whether that's a need for more information or if that is an objection to the uh Yeah, once it's reorganized. >> see what we have right now. If we took 5 minutes, as Mr. Perry said, off of the discussion for the legislative work day, and we took 5 minutes from policy, so that would give us 10. And do you think, Ms. Justice, we could take 5 minutes from the uh hometown ticketing? Well, originally we can Well, we'll try to 5. I mean, that can happen. Well, there you We try to get the information out ahead of time. We are perfectly at time, but you still have a motion on the table, so I I we have to >> draw my

047motion if we're at time now. Okay, great. So, we have We are perfectly at time. We have everything on there. Uh Good job, everybody. Yay. All right, let's go home. No, I'm kidding. Kidding. All right, next on our agenda for today, thank you for your due diligence in that area. We have our facility condition assessment presentation. 30 minutes. And here they come. Come on down. Thank you for being here. So, thank you. While Ms. Killian's getting set up there, I just want to offer a brief intro. So, as some of you may know, every 5 years um DPI requires us to submit um long-range capital plans to the State Board of Education. Uh we've just recently received um information that they are switching to uh an online database to collect that information this year, so

048we're waiting training that I think will be the 6th and 7th of May. But the bottom line is that the request for that information has come out, and so we'll be uploading that um in the weeks and months ahead. But this uh facility condition assessment has been completed uh in our efforts to help guide sort of the long-term planning. So, it's twofold. One, it's to meet state requirement, and then two, it's also to help us look further down the line, which I think also aligns with what we've heard from the county in terms of their request to ensure that we are looking you know, more towards the future as opposed to seeming like we're coming to them every year with just you know, a pot of projects we've cobbled together, which isn't the case, but

049I think this will help us in that regard. >> [clears throat] >> So, this is Jessica Killian. She is with Turner Townsend Hering, or excuse me, Turner and Townsend Hering. Thank you. She's going to kind of give us a high-level overview of the facility condition assessment, some of the outcomes that highlight hit some of the data points. Where we're at right now, understand wanted you to understand this is one piece of the puzzle. So, for example, when we're making decisions about anything in the district, we try and base it on multiple data points. This is going to provide us with some of those data points for our facilities. This is not This is These are not directives from anybody. These are simply providing us with information we don't currently have, or we have it now.

050And then, the final thing I wanted to point out is that our next steps district-wide are to engage in some training for the database that they've created. The FCA Tracker is very comprehensive, and for us to be able to use it the way we need to, we want to be able to sit down with their um their tech person to show us exactly how we can use it the way that they've the way they've designed it to be used. So, that that's kind of our next step in our team, um and then we'll be able to use that to finalize recommended bond projects, specifically with regard to HVAC systems, and then as mentioned, to help us develop long-term comprehensive and system-wide sustainability plans for the district. So, all of that being said, I will turn

051it over to Ms. Killian, say thank you for being here. We appreciate you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Um and thanks for giving us this opportunity. Um I'm going to go through if you go I think I can go to the next slide. Yes, okay. Um so, our agenda today, I'm going to introduce myself and a couple other folks on the team. We're going to talk about what facility condition assessment is. Dr. Morgan gave a great lead-in, but I'll talk a little bit more detail about that. Um and then facility condition index, FCI, is a term we use a lot in the FCA world, so I'll go over that. Um talk about a little bit further about what we did, and then go through um the results for New Hanover

052County Schools. CSP stands for capital spending plan. Um and again, I'll talk a little bit more about what that is. So, for myself, I'm Jessica Killian. Um I'm a vice president at Turner Townsend Hering. I run um our Carolinas project and program management group. Hering has been doing program management in North Carolina for 30 years. We've been doing K-12 program and project management for 70 years. Um and so, and I've been doing this stuff for a long time. I'm located in Raleigh, um but really like what I do. So, I'm more on the project program management side, um but we had two experts from our facility condition assessment team. Martin Harrison, um there in the middle, has over 30 years of experience doing facility condition assessments for public projects. Um he actually retired a few

053weeks ago, um which was a loss to us for sure, but he was very much involved in getting through all of this data. And then Larry Davis, who's located in Winston-Salem, um has been working with us as well, and so he's kind of taking over that last little bit. Um but again, both very very qualified in doing facility and condition assessments. Um Larry's an architect, Martin has um that type of experience, too, and so we bring that kind of expertise to what we're doing. All right. So, why do FCAs matter? There is the 5-year plan um that the state requires, um but an facility condition assessment, an FCA, is really about supporting the buildings that people are in. We all know that children learn better if they're in good facilities, teachers teach better if they're

054in good facilities. Um and so, part of doing an FCA is really determining what the baseline is for what is going on in the building. So, you know, it it talks about as Dr. Morgan said, planned maintenance, it's about the systems in the building, um and we we want to do those as as frequently as we can, every 5 to 10 years, to make sure that we understand what's happening in the buildings. Um so, it's really important, and I I I recognize you guys for doing this kind of effort. This is in addition to what the state requires, um but we went through all 4 million square feet of the school district and looked at a lot of different stuff to put together the information that we have. Um so again, appreciate it, and you'll

055get a lot of detail around that. Our FCA process, um like Dr. Morgan pointed out, I want to emphasize that this is really about systems. It's called a facility conditions assessment, it's about the mechanical systems, the um the structure of the building, the exteriors of the building. It does not focus on educational suitability, on operational security deficiencies, which can be a very very big reason about why you make choices for renovating or rebuilding schools, um but this is focused on the facilities. We brought in experienced professionals with architectural and engineering backgrounds again to walk all of the schools um and the administrative spaces. Um and you know, FCAs are a point in time to just establish that baseline. Again, you know things are going wrong because you get work orders and and Chris Walker and

056his office get called, but what does that actually mean, and how can we plan for the future, and start really um being more efficient with the money that the county gives, and also support why we need that kind of money for operational maintenance, and then some of the bigger things that may be happening with a bond. Um so, we go in and we look at everything we can to establish a baseline for all of that. So, like I mentioned, um we're looking at the site. We're looking at structure. We're looking at architectural, which is a encompasses a lot of things, interiors, building envelope, roof, windows, roofing, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, fire life safety systems, everything that makes up the building, makes it operate. Um and then we do an inventory of all of that. We look

057at everything, categorize it, assess it, assign a replacement cost, and put it into a database so that you can understand what the impact is of those conditions, if they're failing, if they need to be replaced, and also when they might fail and be replaced. But I've got a list here on the slide of all the even more detail of what we looked at, doors, walls, painting, cabinetry, um you know, elevators, all of that goes into that. So, it takes a lot of time to go through this. We spent 4 to 6 weeks going through the schools um and putting all this together. So, when I talk about how long things are going to last, um we talk about remaining useful life and estimated useful life. Those are terms that FCA folks use a lot. So,

058EUL and RUL. Um and I just want to touch on this real quickly. So, everything has an anticipated lifespan. You know, we should replace roofs every certain amount of years. We should replace mechanical equipment every certain amount of years. We don't do that, but we should. And so, we build these plans based on what we think should happen. Um it's based on industry standard, but it's also based on what's happening here. We may say mechanical equipment should last 10 years. When we're sitting 10 miles from the coast, it's not going to last 10 years. And so, we want to understand and make sure that we're being we're being sensitive about that. Something in Phoenix is not going to be the same as something in Wilmington. And so, we're looking at the data in that respect,

059so it really is informed by where we are. And then the remaining useful life, and I'll talk about what that means here when we get to the numbers, but the remaining useful life is simple math. When was it installed? How long is it supposed to last? And is that plus or minus? If it's minus, then we call it deferred maintenance. Again, I'll talk about that in a little bit, but that means that it should be replaced. Doesn't mean it has to be, that just means that based on when it was installed, it should be. And again, that informs some of the numbers that we put together. So, you can see kind of how long things last. We should paint every 5 years, we should do windows every 20, um but with maintenance and other things,

060that doesn't um that doesn't necessarily need to happen. I'm going to touch on this real quick. This is just a snapshot of the dashboard for FCA Tracker. This is New Hanover County Schools' dashboard, um and so, all 5,388 recommendations are in this software. They you can pull them up based on system, based on location, um based on remaining useful life, all of that. So, you can really use that. And like Dr. Morgan said, um there's there's some training that goes into that, but um Dr. Morgan and his staff have already been in this and looking at this, um and it's a really great tool to be able to understand. Back in the old days, we used to do these things and give you 5, 6, 700 pages worth of stuff, and it would go on

061a shelf, and it would get forgotten about. This is much much more dynamic, and you can really use it to do planning um and understanding what's coming up. So, it's a great software um that you all have access to and will be able to use. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, how long ago did we take it off the shelf and start putting it online? It's It depends. Um some is some of that is still happening. Some districts like to have it printed out. Um most firms that are doing facility condition assessments are even either using software like this, or even Excel spreadsheets, um using Microsoft Access, that kind of stuff, because it's just it's too cumbersome to be able to to flip through, especially when you're talking about 20, 30, 50 buildings. So. Do you know about

062this district? How how long ago? Well, the last time you guys did a facility condition assessment was quite a while ago. So, I imagine it was on paper back then. Yeah. So, we have a facility assessment happening now? This is all new. This is new. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you for the question. [clears throat] If you guys have questions, please I I want this to be a conversation. We don't need to get too off the rails, but I do want it to be a conversation, so let me know. All right. So, facility condition facility condition index, that's a really um really small um way to look and see like just quick shot, what does the building look like? Um and again, just math, I'm a former engineer, so it makes me happy. Um but facility

063condition index is deferred maintenance over current replacement value. And deferred maintenance, you hear that term a lot in facilities, and what it really means is stuff that should have been replaced, but hasn't yet. Again, doesn't mean that it's necessarily broken and you know and sitting there not working, but based on that when it was installed, how long should it last, it hasn't been done yet. And that number um you know can get bigger and bigger and bigger as you know your operational needs are small um or your operational funding is small and your operational needs are high. Um but it's really about focusing on other big projects and maybe maybe we let the roof go another year. Maybe we let the mechanical systems go another couple years. That's where we get that deferred maintenance. Um

064the implications of that of having deferred maintenance obviously increase costs. Something breaks more catastrophically because we haven't been able to fix it or repair it. Um deterioration, the longer it sits there with dirty fan coils and things the less efficient it is. Operational risks, it becomes much more catastrophic. We're replacing a lift station, those kinds of things. Um and then of course financial liability. Like it just gets a bigger bigger number and it's sort of harder to get out of that. So ideally we get deferred maintenance done quickly. Um but that doesn't always happen. That and that's true for public entities, private, all of that. Um it just costs a lot of money to operate buildings. That current replacement value is based on how much it would cost to scrape it and rebuild it. Doesn't

065include design, furniture, all of that kind of stuff. But if this was a brand new building, how much would it cost? So you can see if the top number gets higher because deferred maintenance is getting a lot, then it starts to make more sense to just replace it. Um and so people use that FCI number to to help make that decision. And we'll talk about that um as how it relates to the school district as well. But um if we need to go back to this or if you've got question on this um going forward, just let me know. So again, just sort of graphically, um I wanted to point out that we we tend to break FCIs into five different categories, excellent, good, fair, poor, and critical. Um in a perfect world there'd be

066zero deferred maintenance and that means everything is fixed when it breaks. Um everything's replaced on a routine schedule. That never happens. Um but I wanted to point out that overall New Hanover County Schools is sitting at like about 9% for the whole district or about 9%. That's right on the line of good and fair. That's pretty good. That means that there's some things that are bad and we need to address them, but it also means that there are things that are functioning and working and that you're keeping up with things. So that's great. I do want to point out the second one though. So we also look at EFCI. And what that means is if we do nothing now and we keep doing nothing for a certain amount of time, in this case 20 years,

067what happens? Obviously it goes down. Um so if you do nothing for 20 years, you're going to get much further down into that fair, poor, critical range. Um yes sir, go ahead. So on the on the FCI Yeah. right? This is uh district wide we are in the good category, but if we disaggregate that data, I'm sure we're going to see some schools that are not And I will talk about that for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we brought that down. So I will. I'll touch on that here in a little bit. Yeah, you're exactly right. Um and that's really I mean you can't like you can't look at it and say like oh everything's fine because you're right, there are things that are not fine. Um but there are things that are good too. And so

068um I do want to just recognize that. We do see some schools that like school district that's way bad. Yes sir, go ahead. I just want to add to that the FCI focuses on infrastructure systems. It doesn't necessarily focus on academic feasibility or safety in the same way. >> suitability we talk about a lot when we're talking about replacing schools or renovating schools because a school that was built in 1970 does not operate the way it does now. A school that was built in the 90s does not operate the way it does now. Um for safety and for you know the size of classrooms and the adjacencies and breakout spaces. So there is a lot more for school district leadership to make decisions about when you're talking about again renovating or rebuilding that is way

069beyond systems. >> But this is one leg of that stool that's essential for us to be aware of. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And again it helps with data. It helps understanding what's going on. All right. Um so this is the big snapshot. Um so we looked at it for 20 years and I'm going to break it down to 10 years in a second. But we looked at it for 20 years. So you have 20 years worth of what's happening right now and then what we project for the future. So there's about $675 million worth of systems needs again to Dr. Barnes' point across that 4 million square feet. So if you had $700 million and you fixed everything right now, sort of what it means. But then but it also is a projection of things

070are fine now, maybe we'll have to replace things. Um and note that the construction cost again to replace everything is about two and a half billion dollars. So again, just some perspectives of of where we're at. And I know that feels like a lot, but you have 4 million square feet. So you know so that so it it it it averages out across that. So I'm going to break it down a little bit for you so you can understand. Okay, so now we're going to look at just 10 years. Um we have data and plan for 20, but 10 years is really as far as we get cuz once you start getting into 12, 15, 20 years, you're starting to replace things that you already have replaced in the future. You know what I mean?

071And so like um so it starts to get a little fuzzy beyond that. So we like to look a little bit closer to 10 years. So I wanted to break it down here. Um so the the big three quarter pie there for integrity. Integrity is consi- components or systems which are broken or in poor condition over the 10 years. And so that's about $350 million. Um um service life is the big blue pie and that's components or systems which have surpassed their useful life. Remember remaining useful life, estimated useful life. So there are things installed that are working um that are just past their useful life. And again, that's fine. A boiler, a chiller that was built 20 years ago may still be functioning fine. Mechanical unit that was installed 3 years ago may already

072be breaking. And so again, that's why we go out there, we look at everything and walk through those things. The other um categories on there are code compliance. Um so violations that arise when like the building structure doesn't meet mandatory requirements. We didn't see a lot of those. Life safety, imminent risk of harm. We didn't see a lot of those. Um energy, things that are again not functioning in an energy efficient kind of way, dirty fan coils, that sort of stuff. Um and then functionality, that one's a really small one too and that's just a a measurable [clears throat] negative impact on daily life. And so again, that can be very subjective. I saw her hand first and then yeah. Thank you. Just a quick question. Whenever these categories are in place, are you also

073taking into account the warranty life of said things that you're evaluating or no? >> No, not necessarily cuz again that that doesn't necessarily affect the lifespan of the piece of equipment. Um I hear you as like somebody who is helping adopt a budget, if we know it's covered, even if it gets broken, that's less of a concern for us than something that's not covered and is broken. >> Yeah. And that's when you're building that plan, you would want to look at that. Hopefully you're not having to replace things that are still in warranty. Roofs are the ones that have like really long warranties, but again when you get into 15, 20 years of roof replacement, um some a lot of stuff isn't covered by warranty. But yeah, those are things that you would look at

074specifically when you're building a plan. We're really looking at just um the systems that were there. Yeah. Can you talk about integrity again? Yeah. So integrity is components or systems um that are are broken or in poor condition right now. So and again, poor condition means it's still functioning, but we're getting to that point where it needs to be addressed and looked at. And that's across the district. So that's not just mechanical. Um so that could be broken sidewalks and things like that. Yeah, go ahead sir. >> So if I can give you an example from today's meeting, the Winter Park lift station was functioning when they went by there and they looked at this. It has broken twice since then. Um and it is well past its useful life. So to highlight sort of

075yeah to highlight sort of I think what we kind of see is where where that useful life expectancy may be versus whether or not something is functioning. Sometimes we put things off and sometimes we put things off and then realize we can't put it off anymore. All those things do kind of come into play and I think again I go back to this is another data point. These are another data set of data points for us to use and consider. I'm going back to integrity. If I'm reading this right, 69.8% of our square footage is of your costs. Pardon me? Of your costs. 69% of the costs, not the square footage. Oh. Yeah. >> Um is it in the red zone? Yes, over 10 years. And if I go to blue and I add that

07627% I'm darn close to everything and that's the service life. And again, yeah, so this is looking at things that need to be replaced cost 100% of these costs are things that we say need to be done in the 10 years. So um so then it breaks down within that. So yeah, so again, it's not saying that like of everything that exists in the district, 100% of it needs to be replaced. It's saying of the costs identified for 10 years, this is how it breaks down if that helps. Okay, good. Um Yeah, at what point is there an analysis as far as at what point things need to be um rehabbed or re-hauled or fixed or or just simply gotten a new um is So we look at it as replacement. Yeah. >> So always

077replacement, never repair. >> for this information. Again, it's a data point. Yeah. Sorry. >> It's hard because sometimes parts of a building get replaced before other parts do. And [clears throat] and this is some of this is also predictive. We've all had a car that kept running past what any normal human would think would still continue to run. And we've all had cars that died way sooner than you expected. That's right. So, this is as if the car lives exactly as long as it's supposed to. Sometimes it goes further, sometimes it doesn't. >> It's a really excellent analogy. It is, isn't it? Yes. In keeping with that, one of the analogies that I thought was a good one that I came up with in trying to follow Dr. Barnes' footsteps. Yeah. But I've I've helps

078me to think of it as like the Kelley Blue Book values. So, if I go to sell my car, they tell me the Kelley Blue Book value is this. But then when I show up, it depends. Does it run the way that they're defining the Kelley Blue Book value? Or am I missing or my headlights out? Is my interior ripped? Have I got dents on the body? And so, I I To me, that is where you start to see this is the Kelley Blue Book value, but to Dr. Barnes' point, if we've if we've got to replace this part of the system, it it changes everything slightly. And kind of drawing Dr. Barnes' analogy, we probably also had that car where uh oh, one thing keeps going and then the next thing happens and then

079the next thing happens and uh you know, and you're throwing good good money after bad and maybe it's better to better to just to buy a new car. But Not our money. If I Sorry. If I understand the the red integrity, over the next 10 years, this stuff is going to break. This stuff exceeds its useful life. Again, it could last for another 10 years. This stuff is going to exceed its useful life. This is a very objective analysis of what could be happening. Yeah. >> blue is just going to be at beyond its service life? >> Yeah. Yeah, so the red stuff is things that are like struggling. Um and so and then the blue is things that are probably look fine, but >> but within the next 10 years, they're going to go

080beyond their their service life. But the red we know is already struggling. Yeah. And one of the things I think to to do to to understand a part of that it looking at kind of maintaining your car. Love that now we're we're going to talk about. Um so, if you get $4 million from the county, you want to look and say, "Okay, we think that these five roofs are they're going to exceed their useful life. We should do those this year." But maybe we can just replace some equipment in the pumps. Maybe we can just um you know, redo something, repaint, or you know, you can start looking at that like what are the piecemeal things that we can do because you're not ever going to get enough money to do everything all at once,

081nor should you. It's crazy. >> not going to, but the 70% of integrity, is that common for what you see in other districts? It is because again, that's just and that's sort of how you see on facility condition assessments in general. Like again, this is all things that we say should are likely going to happen in 10 years. So, how does it break down? It would be really bad if you saw that being skewed to life safety or something that was an emergency. Um but this is like that's expected. It it should be that way. That's where the assessments come in with a level one or two or a three. Yeah. So, we bring to you the things that are red or blue that are in danger zone. You automatic We automatically fix things that

082are in that life safety portion. So, when you see that, you can equate that to this chart right here. Okay. We can come back to that if you need to. So, another way to break this down is um FCA Tracker calls it region, but looking at it at types of schools. And I just thought this was some interesting information. Um again, this is percentage of cost, not percentage of square footage, but I am going to talk a little bit about it. So, elementary schools is about 34%. This is over the 10 years again, what is going to exceed its useful life, needs to be replaced. So, 34% high schools, 32% middle schools um 27%. So, kind of third to third to third once you add all that up up, but I did want to acknowledge

083that based on square footage to go to that. Um so, middle schools are only 21% of your square footage in the district, but they're 27% of need. Um high schools is 33% of square footage, 33% of need, okay. Um elementary schools 34% of need, 40%. So, there's a little bit of discrepancy. That doesn't mean anything. I just again, I like sort of data information. Um but having you know, addressing middle schools, they're they're bigger. Um I have a 12-year-old, so I know that they're a little bit more chaotic children. Um and so so that might be again something to focus on. But does again, this is just data. Um but I thought it was interesting. If you saw a huge swing at high schools and and everything was great at elementary schools, that might mean

084that you had just replaced a whole bunch of elementary schools and now we're going to high school. So. Um and then looking at it again, deferred maintenance versus future capital. I just wanted you to see how those dollars break down. Um so, deferred maintenance now, if you got a check right now from the county, you could spend $176 million fixing everything. Just for reference. So, that first year of numbers always looks high because we're capturing so much of the things that are already past their useful life. Um but then looking past that over the 10 years, the rest of that is future. Um things that you would want to replace as you were going along in your capital plan. Um and again, that doesn't mean that there's $176 million of things that are broken and

085not functioning. Just means that there are things that should have been done last year, two years ago, three years ago in a replacement sense. Um so, again, just pointing that out. All right. So, to your question about the FCI and how it breaks down into the schools. Um so, there are 17 schools of the or 17 locations of the 49 that we looked at that are in that critical to fair um right now, currently. Um that are in that critical to fair category. That again, to just re-emphasize, that doesn't reflect educational suitability, operational safety. They might have offices in the middle of the buildings and we did not put anything about that. That's that's a different type of capital planning. Um and then but if looking at it again, if you wait 20 years and

086don't do anything, 44 of your 49 locations are in critical to fair. So, you have So, that again, it emphasizes the need that there's got to be capital spending in order to keep things from going. Yes, ma'am. 20. Within 20. Within 20. Thank you. Yeah, that's right. Within 20 years, 44 of those 49 locations are critical to fair. And it's the same thing as if your house. If you don't do anything to your house for 20 years, same thing. I mean, this is this is natural. Like I don't want you all to to feel like you know, that you're in a world apart. There are needs for sure. There's always needs, but this helps you establish a plan. Okay. And so, just one more breakdown too for how the deferred means the current deferred maintenance

087breaks down. Um and this should be no surprise. Um the big the blue is HVAC. That's always it's the most expensive. Um so, it's always a big chunk. Um the red there is low voltage. Again, that's IT systems, that sort of thing. Um lighting is $4 million. Um and parking, that's replacing parking lots. Um and then you can kind of see it. So, roofing is $3.3 million. Um and then it goes around site electrical um and and through there. Um but again, the the big chunk of the current need and again, this that happens all the time is HVAC. All right. That's the end of the slides that I have. Um but happy to go back to something or answer any more questions about how this is. I was just curious because we have identified

088bond projects to go on this year's bond and so, seeing the red is never a good thing, but are we able to get a breakdown and maybe not right this moment, but of this 70% of the concern with integrity issues over the next 11 years, how many of our bond identified projects would make up that 70 percentage? So, I did look at that and all of the bond projects are in that. Um some of the bond projects are actually things that >> Yes. All of the bond projects are in that are in that 10-year identified need. Um I do also want to acknowledge that some of the bond projects are really critical because there's they're DDC control upgrades. That's not something that we would look at because we don't necessarily say you've got bad controls.

089That that's what controls the building systems. Um that's an upgrade that will help your equipment last longer. It'll be more functional. Um so, that's a critical need, but again, to some of the stuff we've talked about, not necessarily a replacement cost because the equipment turns on and turns off. But once you put in those controls upgrades, which are expensive um and are very often bond funded, you are enhancing the system in a way that makes it much more functional for both maintenance and occupants. So, some of the projects are not in here on that list, but the ones that are replacing chillers, boilers, the window units, that kind of stuff, um those are all in part of that. If I could just add one more thing, if you look at the slide here, you can

090see why why our focus was primarily for the HVAC system when we were looking at the bond. Cooling a high school with window units is never really efficient. So, we have access to that software so we can pull it out in our office? As of right now, we're still getting all that ourselves. We kind of think the software that at a later time. We just need to get trained on it first and then we can show you guys how to access it if you want. Um yes. Now, your company, uh is it mainly concerned with schools, districts here in North Carolina? Is that where you do the bulk of your all of your work? So, my group does work um here in North Carolina North and South Carolina, but we are a national company, actually

091a global. Turner Townsend and is a global project management project controls company and like I said here he has been doing project management and program management with schools here in North Carolina and the country for a long time. So yeah. They are yes they are That's that's correct. Yeah and we don't we're not comparing you to anybody else. We're comparing you to you but the numbers we use those replacement cost numbers and the current replacement value are based on cost that we're seeing here in North Carolina. I just like to say thanks to the board for the opportunity to present this. It's a lot of information and they have spent they and our teams our staff have spent a lot of time going through our building so I just want to say thank you and

092thank you Jessica Miss Killian for being here today. Yep absolutely. This is excellent work. Thank you very much. >> Absolutely yeah yeah good luck with with everything. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Hold on. What did you mean by that? I mean good luck. I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean this is this is exciting and then I'll just wrap it up. This is really exciting and this is important information to do I know it costs money but it's really important for you all to get a handle on it because it it just it's black and white it's data. It's not opinions of oh my classroom's too hot or you know this isn't working like it's just there and it helps support to the county to your community to everybody. So again you know

093Yeah. Being reactive always costs more. Yes absolutely. to not be reactive. So thank you very much I appreciate it. Uh next on our agenda we have Yeah we're back. We do have a quorum. Uh we do have a I just was alerted to an emergency we need to add on this week. So we will be in under consensus. Miss Barnes. Yes it's IntelliChoice. It I need to make a contract amendment for our one-to-one nursing and certified nursing assistant contract. I've been alerted that we have an increased need and we need to increase that contract to get through the end of the school year. I have the funds I just need to make sure that that amendment comes through the board. Okay and IntelliChoice? >> IntelliChoice. I'll make a motion that we add IntelliChoice to our

094consensus items under uh letter N. Do we have a second? Okay any discussion? Do we now need to look at next week's time again? No cuz it's still on the consensus. Okay. Miss Barnes would you chair again cuz Dr. Merrick just came? Yes um I'm adding IntelliChoice the IntelliChoice contract. Um it has been um approved by the board in the past. I need to have an amendment approved as I'm increasing the dollar amount on there in order to provide additional services one-to-one nursing services or CNA services to our students for the remainder of the school year. I think I think so. Mr. Perry. How much extra? I've got that. How much extra money? I've got that dollar amount coming in to me. I just know it's above 300,000 so I need to make sure and

095it's already been approved once. I just need to make sure I get the amendment done but I'll send you that information. Okay. Well and if we need to next week we can we can pull it back off but we have a motion and a second to add IntelliChoice under letter um N. Uh all in favor and we do need a super majority at this point. All in favor please signify by saying I. I. All those like sign. That passes 7-0. So, we'll be at it. Yes, ma'am. So, that we can look at it before the meeting. Yes, and I will also get it posted as soon as possible. Thank you. Okay, we will carry on with our business for today. Next, we have the recommended very, very important business of today. 26-27 seven recommended budget

096Ms. Sutton. So, you have at your desk a copy of the same presentation that's online. So, we'll just go through that. So, I wanted to start with I don't believe we have one. I think I have an extra. But, I've seen it in the notes. I have last today's notes, too. So, keep your All right, everybody's got one now. Now, we're good. All right. So, we'll start with our revenue that we're including in our initial budget this recommendation. I did want to point out to the group that the [clears throat] total budget you see here is less than the number that you're used to seeing for our total budget like when we were doing our budget listening tours. And that's because we don't have all of our state and federal planning numbers yet. Some budgets

097were we are able to estimate, but we also have some federal funding especially that we're not able to estimate because the funding that we receive is based on for example low-income students and how we rank compared to the other counties within the state. So, when we are in that type of situation and we're not sure what that revenue's going to be, we usually just hold that off until we have better idea of what that revenue will look like. And then at that point, we would bring that to the board for approval through a budget amendment. That's what that would be. And so, as you can see here, this budget that we are recommending is $333 million in total with all the different funding sources. Remember, this does include for the in other revenue, that number

098does include a reduction that makes up the one-time funding for the FEMA reimbursement that we received this year. You know, we're not going to have that next year. And then also the sale of the 13.4 acres over at Johnson. So, those two revenues are included in other revenue as part of that reduction. And then the remaining or another big chunk, I guess, of that reduction is carryover that we will bring back to the board as well. So, grants and donations where we received a set amount in the current fiscal year 2025-2026 you're seeing that those amounts in that column, but you're not seeing them in next year's column because we don't know what that carryover's going to be yet. And so, that would come back. So, that's why you see such a big difference for

099the other revenue row there. >> [clears throat and cough] >> And all of this should be our the conversations we had have had already. So, this should be review for most of you guys. Right. And this does include a 3% as you can see there a 3.1% increase from the county. And we'll go through that county request in a little bit more detail on another slide. In board policy, the board approves our budget by purpose function. And so, we do have for here on this slide, we have it broken out by purpose for you. And as you would expect, 70% of our budget is for instructional services and 21.3% is for system-wide support services. And then you have small amount making up the other areas as you can see there. [clears throat] >> [cough] >>

100This budget does include and we've talked about before raises of 3% retirement increase of 1% health insurance increase of 5%. And then also some inflationary increases for like contracts, software increases, those type things. Now, I wanted to spend a little bit more time talking about the local revenue, our general fund. And we've broken it down a little more here for you. This is a slide you've seen in the past. Once again, the non-recurring is your FEMA reimbursement and the sale of the some of those acres over at Johnson. We have increased fines and forfeitures based on the additional revenue that's come in this year over what we had budgeted. So, we feel comfortable with that increase. The 3.1% increase. I'm sorry, 3.1 million dollar increase for the county operating is So, if you're just looking

101at the county operating, it is a 3% increase. And I will show you on another slide how we got 1.3 on that first. This is only operating revenue that we received from the county. We this budget also includes adding a new fee for student technology. And then also moving where we've got two of our pre-K classrooms so that we would be eligible to charge NC pre-K for reimbursement. I'd like to break that one down in a little more detail for everyone because it does involve a shift. >> [clears throat] >> Currently, we have NC pre-K is our main funding source for pre-K. We bill for certain kids at a certain rate. We currently have four classrooms in our district that are not compatible with pre-K NC pre-K certification. That is two classrooms at Blair and

102two classrooms at Murrayville. Those four classrooms make up about $300,000 of which we need to spend from another source to balance that out. So, that's money that doesn't go to our K-12 students. This recommendation includes moving two of the four classrooms over to Johnson or How so that we can then bill those students from NC pre-K because those rooms are certified. Now, this is a short-term plan because this year is our opportunity to certify rooms in all buildings that we choose to. So, Dr. Morgan and Ms. Dr. Kettenis are working to isolate which rooms we want to add to our certification so that we have more flexibility later on. These four rooms we know will qualify. However, until they certify the rooms, we can't use them. In addition, do you want to stop for questions?

103And I'll There's more. So, I'll stop right now and then go go back. I I the three-year-olds, they don't count either way. Is that correct or do they count? That was coming up next. So, I'll include this and then you can go to the questions. So, NC pre-K does not pay for any three-year-olds. Now, some students who receive special education services are in our pre-K program at three because they are receiving services equating to the cost that we can bill for. Now, I'll have questions. I'll start over here to the right and go around. I'm trying I had a question about the technology. Is it specific with the pre-K for now? Let's do Let's do the pre-K and then It will come back to you. Okay. No, we're listening here. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I

104I do I'm Thank you because, you know, we've had a bunch of letters. Parents, this is I understand $178,000 if if if if we were to continue on, we'd have to find that somewhere else. That's And that's a couple of teachers' salaries. That's That's not a small amount of money. I just Boy, it breaks my heart to listen to the parents who say, you know, I have one kid going from from pre-K into kindergarten and another child that's going to go into pre-K, but now we have to take them to another school. And you know, And I And I understand all that. Okay. But, I >> [clears throat] >> I guess what I'm I'm saying this more for the people listening than anything else that if the state gave us, as you've mentioned, if the

105state gave us even the average amount that a state gives us, we would have a hundred plus million more dollars. And this would not be a conversation at all. But, I do want to tell those parents how difficult a conversation this is to have that we're going to ask them to have to go to another school and then come back later. It's really not optimal, but at the same time, I feel like our hands are tied. I mean, $178,000 that's two two more teachers that we would have to let go. So. Okay. Thank you. I I do want to point out we are taking the steps so that we can make pre-K sustainable. And so currently we have not done that as a district. So being able to have rooms certified more rooms certified means

106that we can serve more children. And that is our goal. And so the idea and concept of potentially moving a program short-term, you said 1 year. As long as it they the certification goes through, they will be certifiable in the next school year. So it is it is our goal for New Hanover County to certify these rooms so that we can maintain high-quality pre-K education and continuing to serve spots. And so my my concern that I brought up in our one-on-ones, I think there was a three of us this last time of going over the budget was this. Are we able to maintain the spots that we have for our students and keep our staff? And the answer that was told to me was yes. And so we're able to still serve children the same

107number that we're serving and keep our staff. Is that a correct statement? >> It is if I can qualify it just a little. Okay. So by moving those students and being able to bill for those groups of students, we will receive back that 178,000. Now, one question may ask is why don't you move all four rooms instead of just two? There are currently three-year-olds at Blair and Murrayville who are already in our pre-K program this year. It is less invasive to those kids to allow them to stay in that same building where they're already comfortable and planning. So last count there were 13 three-year-olds turning four at Blair and eight at Murrayville and I may have that number reversed. That's not a full classroom either. So our next bid is to provide an opportunity for

108students who have sibling privilege. So if I have seven slots or six slots or five slots or whatever still open and you have another kid at that school, we will try to accommodate sibling privilege when we can. I know that this is disruptive to move two rooms and move them back and I would love to say that we're not in a budget [clears throat] place where $178,000 is the deal breaker, but it took us weeks. That's [clears throat] why this budget is coming to you a little later. It took us weeks to balance this budget to a place where it stands on its own. And it's numbers like 178 that are actually critical in the process. So not going to damage kids who are already at Blair and Murrayville three or four-year-olds. We'll try to

109accommodate sibling privilege and the plan would be to move those students back. Now, that is just to maintain the number of slots that we have. Increasing slots, right now we are inviting every four-year-old who qualifies to come. We have not invited three-year-olds at this point in time because I need to reserve as many spots as I can for four-year-olds who can be billed NC Pre-K. Now, I will tell you if NC Pre-K didn't pay for only 47% of what a kid requires, then the slot conversation becomes a little more malleable. But even out of the gate we're only getting half of what it costs and the rest of that money has to come from somewhere. So thank you. Yes. And I echo what Ms. Barnes said. This is going to put us This is a

110long-term solution to make it more sustainable. And I didn't understand what the certification of the classroom was. It's not an educational certification. It's physical, bathroom, sink, hot water, outside door. So that's going to improve our classrooms and our buildings that are elementary schools. So it's just going to set a better track for the future as we continue to plan for the future, which hasn't been done in this district and so don't know. There's a licensing requirement in addition to maintain a five-star rating, we have all the requirements that go with it. But um chose to certify those rooms. Okay. Let's go back and compare to his question. Yeah, this is regarding the the student technology fee. So I know we had our little discussion with you. I raised some concerns about that at the time.

111Um you've got as it was presented to us to be one fee, which is pretty much set for all students across all grade levels. But I mean, there are different you know, you know, you've got uh elementary school kids who are probably maybe using a shared computer once in a while paying the same thing that a high school kid is paying to have a one-to-one device, which doesn't seem like it's quite fair. Um also I also have a problem with you know, if it's if it's a nice to have, if it enhances education, you know, I could see charging that a student technology fee to you know, to help us reimburse the cost for that. But if it's something that's required, if you have to use this device in order to pass your classes, then

112I I I I I I got sort of an ethical problem for the kids to use the device that they have to use. You know, they're already paying taxes. There wasn't a textbook fee? I know there's in college there's a textbook fee, but I can't remember any for the past. And what is this fee per child and what's the what's the caveat on the the lunch? $25. It would not be billed to students who are free and reduced lunch. I'd like to take that out or just what do I revise it? And and that is what the board has That's why I'm bringing it to you. That's why I brought it to you a couple weeks ago. If you choose to take that out, what I will then do is is have to cut something

113to balance that budget back again. Deborah? I would wonder if it would suit the board if these things that are variables, if we go ahead and have a a a if we're ready to vote on those things now so he's prepared when he comes next week with a different budget if he needs a different budget rather than just stall it out until next week. Um the pre-K and the the student technology fees and whatever else is in here that's a variable, we're going to have to vote on if we're prepared rather than wait till the very last minute and miss that May 5th date because we're already 2 weeks behind of what last year what we did. I don't know if you vote on the things individually or if I bring you the budget, you

114just either vote it up or down. I'm not sure. >> Or we give you an indication of how we would vote or, you know, in favor of or >> a Do you know how we how that works? So um in the past, if there was something the board agreed to add or take away, I do seem to remember that it was voted on and based on the vote of the board, then we would adjust the budget based on that change. >> Which I think is what we did when we met last time is as I took all your feedback and only put things in here that were five or six. Right. You know, universally wanted or only wanted >> There really wasn't a change based on what we talked about before. Well, I'm I'm just

115trying to take all this in now. Last minute changes, which is why we're here, or not even changes, just discussion. So at this point, the question was whether we we're voting now on these two topics. And these are things that we covered in that one-to-ones with the superintendent a couple weeks ago. And we filled out little forms and I think he took the average the plus average and then put it on the final budget request. Uh so in a sense we did it then, but we did it more informally. Mhm. Um so so you're saying that you maybe we should be formally doing it now? Is that what the question is? I think the question is if, you know, if it's if it's raised by another member of the board that they objected to one

116of the things, that instead of waiting till next week, we vote on the whole budget. >> Right. >> And then if it we say if if we had say three four people not three but four people say no, I don't like it the way it is. Instead of trying to scramble at the last minute to do this, that we would, you know, be able to say, well, it's you know, Only these two items. Yeah. And we only have two items that are in place. Is that right? Those are the only two things that are new that we considered that we needed to add in to balance ourselves out. Dr. Merrill? Well, they're not the only ones that were on that list of [clears throat] 10 or 12 things that we were looking at, right? There's

117the OTPT change that the EC age uh increase, right? It's on slide six. Oh, sorry. But so the question I really have though is that whether we take some of these out or put them back in, I you know, I've watched a couple of cycles here. I know that the money comes in, it's not what we thought, it's more, it's less and there's always some jockeying for position. And I just want to know that those issues that we've brought, if any of those get cut, they'd be the first ones to be put back. If you will wait till slide five, I think [laughter] you'll have an answer to that question. Okay, I shut up now and let you go to slide four or five. Yeah, I was just going to say I would recommend that

118we wait till we get through this whole thing and then if we need to, if we want to say, well, you know, we have enough uh angst about, you know, well, are you afraid now of student technology fee, then maybe we should vote and you know, rough plan. Yes, ma'am. Do you have a motion for that? Well, let think let's go ahead and get down. Let's let's hear all what Mr. Sutton has to and Dr. Barnes has to present and then we'll go ahead and go. Okay. And so this slide, I just wanted to go into a little more detail for the county request since that is a separate letter that we will if approved by the board we will send to the county which was is submitting our official request from them for next

119year. So as you can see here our recommendation would be to request that 3% increase for our operating appropriation from the county and that's the 3.1 million. We would also ask for a 3% increase for pre-K program. That's 31,000. Once again, that's just you know salaries, benefits, inflationary type things for that program. And then the capital appropriation request would be the 2.8 million. That's the same capital request that the board approved previously. That's the same amount, but it is an increase compared to prior year of that 368,000. So when you add all those changes together, it is a little over 3%. It's 3.1% when you look at all three of those types of requests together. I did break down in the bottom um inflationary meaning contracts, increases, software increases, supply increase, those type things and

120charter school payments that are included in this budget make up about 328,000 of the increase. The people investment for that I'm including raises and benefit increases is 2. right at 3 2.2 million. Pre-K program the 31,000 we just talked about in capital. So that's how you get that 3.3 million all together. Are there any questions about the county request? Yes. Just want to go to the pre-K there. We are getting a million dollars in pre-K funding if they approve this budget. We're requesting that million there and it's $31,000 more for pre-K. Correct. Okay. You're starting to go to slides. Right. >> get us to balanced we have added the two things that are at the top. We went from a $16 million operating budget request down to just these three items. These are the three

121items that I had to take out to get us to balance. However, I feel like in conversations with the board and with our staff and principals, these are critical areas. And that is to make sure that we stop sharing assistant principals at our elementary school to reclassify special education teacher assistants from a 57 to a 59 and provide a supplement for OT and PT. Now our intention is to send our recommendation to the county requesting a 3% increase in our operating budget 3.1. We also want to share with them that these three things are what we consider of critical importance. And I want the public to know that any revenue that we generate other than what we expect these are the first three things that we will address with it. And at that point as

122I've always done before, if we find we have additional revenue that we didn't expect, we will bring that to the board with a recommendation of where to allocate it, but we want to be clear that these are the first three things on our list. I I heard you say I think it was just you kind of went over a little bit, but you said a 3.1 operating increase and I think it's a 3% operating increase plus that 0.1 which is actually capital. So in total. So in total the total county request is an increase of 3.1. That includes our operating, pre-K, and capital. Okay. If you just look at operating by itself, it's 3%. >> Okay cuz I I want the public to know that we're we we didn't say 2.3 to 3. We didn't

123go to 3.1. We're still at three. There's other things that we're asking. And I asked based on our conversation yesterday with Representative Davis, I asked Ashley a question this morning and she answered me. And it has to do with you've built into this budget a 3% raise for teachers. Correct? For all staff. All staff, excuse me. Um and what happens if it goes to 10 or 11 or eight. So I wanted to know the dollar value in 1% increases of what that would be and we have 600 and 52 52 local staff that are paid locally and we would have to pick up the tab for that. It's $845,000 for every 1% increase. So if it goes to 4%, we'd have to pick up another 85 80 Yeah. 840,000. If it goes to 2%, twice

124that. 3% 2.5 million dollars. So where would we get that? That's just something that's looming over my head and I think it's a number that we should all know as we watch. Sure, I want 11%. I want 8%. I want 5%. But we're budgeted at three and this is how much it's going to hurt us if they mandate that higher amount. So we baked in a 3% raise for all of our specifically especially because most of our employees did not get a raise last year. I when I mean I'm going to the state tomorrow. I it is it would be a statewide issue if the state decided to do a 10% or 8% raise. Every county would be required to make up that differential. No one when they build their budget builds in an 8%

125raise because that sets an expectation that's unreasonable. If we get a raise higher than 3%, we will have to make cuts in our population in our >> [clears throat] >> student facing population to balance that. Mr. Reinhardt Thank you, Mr. Chair. Looking at all these, a couple of things that I brought up when we had our superintendent office hours was specifically with technology. Our younger kids K2 in particular we can re-evaluate if it's necessary to have technology use at all if I'm just being blunt. Looking at shared opportunities for specials classes and things like that of how we can reduce that and still have access. So I want to I wanted to publicly state that. And these three things give me heart palpitations of not including the recommendations that assistant principals, the class classification for

126ECTAs and the OTPT salary because maintaining services is extremely important. And so one of the things when we were discussing different opportunities that I know what we I know we all had the opportunity to share our feedback of where movement could happen or could not happen based on our opinions. The one thing that I said to you and to my colleagues who were in my group I guess was that whatever changes we do, we need to make sure that we're continuing the services with fidelity whatever that looks like. And so if we're able to adjust and accommodate in one area and just in pre-K is a prime example. It's how can we maintain the services of pre-K in a different way that we're currently doing. I don't like the movement if I'm just being blunt.

127However, in order for us to service these children it's a necessary step to provide those slots. So therefore, I understand and will accept that. And so there was a couple of conversations we had of some changes. So I'm going to ask it publicly, are we able to make any changes of how we are currently operating still maintaining services for students? Can we do things in a different format than what we're currently doing so that we can build these one of these three or all of these three back into our budget. So and what I needed to do was what a lot of places will do is called a zero base budget where you budget for maintaining our lives as they are with the cost of benefits increases and raises and things like that. There were

128several options that we had the availability to do which is sort of maybe recalibrating how we offer services in certain areas. Whether that's enrichment, whether that's AIG services, whether that's resource time, all those different things. There are ways that we can review and recalibrate and try to bring this money in. Because there are so many variables that aren't known yet which is we don't have all of our planning numbers yet. There's been a lot of conversation with the state about increasing the cap on special education services. I don't want to make any violent shifts if I think that we may end up these three things alone are about half a million dollars. Am I in the ballpark? >> That's right. So these three things alone, that's not a huge lift. So I'm hoping that those

129things may come to us from another fashion without having to recalibrate other things. >> Okay. Does that make sense? It absolutely makes sense cuz I I think that was the other thing that our group had a discussion of is the TRDC funding formula. I think would be able to knock out these last two items. >> The two two and three for sure. Yeah. to be able to be included as the recommendation just not coming from a local source. It would be from the state. So, I appreciate you bringing that to light because that was also a conversation that we had in our group. >> Well, that was actually you who brought that to me. I have two points actually. The first is that and I I hear what my colleague was saying across the way

130around what we might be in for if the state does decide to agree they pass a budget at all. But if they do that and if they give and if decide to give teachers raise, which I really hope they do. We need them, right? What I don't want our conversation here to sound like to the to the teachers and to the public is that oh gosh, we hope that the teachers don't get raises, right? We don't We don't and I know you don't believe that, but we have to be careful the way we discuss it, right? We will have to be ready to make some huge pivots if the teachers do get the raises they desperately need. Correct. Second >> tell you is this is it's as important to address the the the plateau in

131the teacher schedule as it is to increase teacher salary. >> I agree. That 15 to 25 years is just unbelievable. The second thing I I I would like to ask you to explain a little bit better for the public is when we say a half a million, that's you know, that's not the end of the world. We can That's not too heavy a lift and then we say 178,000, that's too much. So, I I I just would love you to be able to kind of bring those two things back into balance. >> Sure. I think and it lends itself to something else I wanted to say as well. Conversation came out and there was a news story the other day about why we only brought 3% to the county for our ask. I want to

132be clear. I have always made it very clear that we are at a subsistence level with what we can provide. However, we are also required to be good stewards of the money that we are given. And in the same year that we are going to ask this community to fund a 320.5 million-dollar bond, this 3% could have easily been four. It could have easily been six. However, we need to make sure that we're being fiscally responsible. Do I think this is the year to build on where this school system is going? Yes, but I think the bond will do that. So, I don't want to burden our taxpayers twice. Also in conversation with our county commissioners, we've also been talking about the fact that our enrollment has decreased and their funding has gone up every

133year. I think we need to balance that as well. Are our needs there? Yes, but that's why we're going to Raleigh. That's why we're addressing thing with our things with our legislators because we know that it's a balance. At the same time, we need to be as responsible as possible and I think you said it, Ms. Barnard, look for ways to look at how we're delivering services to make sure we're being as fiscally responsible as we can. And that of course is why you guys talked about that 10-year sort of sustainability plan to make some long-term decisions for this district. And I think that the county's been very responsive to that. So, if the public says we should have asked for more, I'm trying to balance about what's fair, what's responsible, and how we can

134move this district forward. So, so just to to keep going with that, what I'm hearing you say, I'm just trying to clarify for everybody, is that the 178,000, although in itself might not be a huge lift, for us not to make that change is to say we're being a little bit irresponsible in in how we're we're arranging our classrooms. And no, I don't like it that certain families are now having the burden, but the fact of the matter is we have people on the waiting list. And so, you know, we will fill those classrooms. It's not like we're suddenly kicking parents out of the system. >> and we're allowing every child who's currently in those buildings to stay there. So, I don't think shifting them is not necessarily the burden. I think that if you

135were already invested in that building, you stay there. And as much as we can, if you have an older sibling in that same school, we'll do what we can to keep you there, too. Mr. Perry. Um when we had the our little budget session with you and all of them, Yes. Um one of the things that I I don't know how everybody else voted, but I was and it seemed to add up pretty close numerically was is that the if we were to get rid of the AIG teacher positions at our high schools, that could just about equate to the three additional assistant principals that we want. And from my understanding, not that AIG isn't important, but in the high school thing is typically something more that could be done from from the school counselor's

136office. And that's what was explained to me. I voted for that. I don't know how everybody else felt about it, but I think it's a little more important to make sure that we've got a assistant principal in every single school. Yeah, because Yeah, sorry. And correct me if I'm wrong, actually, because we still have some unknowns in our funding that's coming in, I didn't want to make sort of violent not violent, but rash decisions without knowing whether or not now if if we the budget comes in under we expect or something we don't expect happens and we don't get as much money, these things may be we may not be able to do them. But because there's still some unknowns, I didn't want to make any rash decisions until I knew where all the money

137was going to come in yet. Right? So, the check's been written, but it hasn't been mailed. So, I didn't want to make any real significant changes until we know those things. Does that make sense? And just one of the points, I've been studying this pre-K since last Tuesday cuz it was really agonizing and and I and I read every one of those letters. Uh you're talking about one classroom at Blair and one classroom at Murrayville, up to 18 kids in each class. So, that's if my math is right, it's 36 possible kids that would would would have a different placement, but they'd still get pre-K and it would still be in a quality setting. So, we have to balance that against in two years where we would be if we make these changes and at

138the same time, the teacher and the teacher assistant, they pick up that whole classroom and they move it. So, we're not we're not affecting teachers and and teachers assistants. The kids get the same incoming kids will get the same teachers and so on. And I know it's a it's tough for those handful of people under 40 people that are going to be affected by it or could be affected by it, but if we certify those classrooms, we bring everything back in a year, we're in a better position then than we are now. We have to continue to look for the future and not do a quick fix. We have to. So, as much as it pains me, I guess I've made up my mind. Okay, so that's all that I have for you. That's my

139last slide. So, we'll be glad to hear any feedback if there's any adjustments that we need to make. Otherwise, this is what we would recommend next week. Could you go back one slide? Yes. >> Please. To six? Nope. Oh, I'm just keying you up. >> Okay, yeah. Go five. >> So, the one thing I think we have discussed is the student technology fee and I think the board needs to I think it makes sense that, you know, you'd be able to discuss that now and then we can discuss it again maybe more for next week, but that way we can actually have you can if there is Yeah, there has to be a movement, we can do it. So, Mr. Perry, you actually brought up so why don't you start, please? Yeah, so I might

140My concern is that it it needs to be a straight fee regardless of grade level and what the services that they're Um the technologies that they're actually using varies dramatically from kindergarten all the way up to 12th grade. Um so, we're charging the same, you know, anything from we're sharing you know, one computer in a kindergarten classroom something to Oh, I'll tell you. Now, I've got a high school student with a one-on-one device with a lot of expensive software on it. So, um so, I don't think it's necessarily fair from that perspective that you're charging um you know, a kid who's only sharing a computer the same amount that you're you're charging a kid who's got their own with a bunch of software on it. That's great. But then the other thing is is is

141like how much and this is probably where I will need help is how much is of this technology is required, you know, for them to actually complete uh their school work. And I mean, if it's optional, okay, go ahead and charge the technology fee. But if it if it's required, I I mean, taxpayers pay taxes so they can send their kids to school. We shouldn't be charging them extra fees if it's a required thing. If it's a nice to have, if it's an optional thing that will improve their thing, sure, go ahead and charge them an extra fee, but if it's required for them to use this computer in order to pass their classes, I got a problem with asking our our taxpayers to throw off an additional fee. Mr. Perry. Um so, I know

142Mr. Heafner uh Mr. Perry was not in my group, but I believe in our group we talked about the other counties are doing this fee. So, my question would be how did they do it? Do they step do they kind of stagger it or alter it or do any kind of adjustments with that? And then just kind of wanted to make a point as far as with the younger kids, they're not sharing laptops, they have iPads, correct? K2, yes. And it's One to one. They each have They're all in the classroom? They're in the classroom. But they're on a cart? Got you. If it helps to look at it a different way, this technology fee would offset the cost of the insurance, the cost to fix the laptops when they're broken by those same children.

143So, you know, is it a balanced point? Yeah, do are there less iPads but do kindergarten kids drop them more than a high schooler? So, there there's a a range of things and we're moving towards a a a cart system in middle school so we can reduce that damage. But if you think of it in that way, this is to offset the insurance of fixing them when the students break them. Dr. Merrick? Well, you know, from a very uh idealistic standpoint, I agree with my uh my member to the to the right. You know, free and accessible public education, uh right? We they shouldn't have to pay anything for this. However, um we are not in a situation to be able to offer a quality education without having to take some strong choices here. I

144would be totally against this if every family that was uh on free and reduced lunch had to pay a fee. Um $20 $25 $25 seems probably pretty reasonable for what a family can handle. Now, if you've got four kids in school, that's a hundred bucks. Still, it's over an entire year. I don't like it. Maybe this is one thing that will get our families to be able to say, "Hey, you know what? Why the heck are we having to pay for this? Let's talk to our Let's talk to our legislator. Let's talk to our county commission. Let's talk to our government elected officials and do something about this cuz why should I have to pay a hundred bucks?" And I so I think for a short-term budget reconciliation, I think it's reasonable and I would

145vote for it. Ms. Justice? Um I was basically going to say the same thing in in the ideal world, then public schools are paid for with public funds. But right now, we're not in an ideal world. We're the 50th in the nation with our public funding, which is heartbreaking. And our county commissioners, it looks like they're going to do a great job cuz they're talking about doing the 3% which we desperately need. Um I I would be willing to pay I mean, $25 is like, you know, a meal at McDonald's for a whole year with one or two kids. Um it it's it's not in a perfect world, but it's a reasonable world. That's what we have to do right now. And as Dr. Merrick my colleague to the left here pointed out, maybe this

146will get parents to pay more attention to what's going on in our schools as far as the fact that we are woefully underfunded. Ms. Bradford? I've been saying for a couple of years we're going to have to learn to do less with less. This is one of those examples. And we're not alone as a county, all the other counties and from what I can read all over the country, they're facing the same crisis, you know, with with with education and the cost going up and up and up and the services, you know, having to be cut in order to make balanced budgets. So, for me, I agree if it wasn't free and reduced lunch excluded, then I wouldn't want to do it. But I think that $25 for the technology to make sure that, you

147know, when you drop it, I dropped mine this morning. I didn't mean to, but I dropped it. And I'm really glad that it's hardy. No, this is one hardy little machine, trust me. Um and and so I would I would be in favor of it. Okay. Ms. Barnhart? So, kind of what I'm hearing from the discussion is it's not necessarily a fee to use the computer, but it's the insurance to use the computer. I mean, and so that's what I'm gathering from this conversation. I mean, we we have been able to help secure more funding year after year after year and we're going to continue that trend. We are seeking other options of funding sources and allocations. So, we just don't know where grant ask and endowment ask and state where they're going to come

148in at. So, I think there's an opportunity [cough and clears throat] to reconsider this, but it sounds like rather than a fee to use the technology is the insurance to use the technology. Is that a good Is that a fair assessment from what I'm hearing or is that not fair from what I'm hearing? Cuz it's not a fee to get the computer to do the work. We're going to provide technology if the teacher requires technology cuz that's our job, right? It's more the securing the insurance of the computer. To cover the the repair cost, you know, um the getting parts and stuff and the insurance for it is not cheap. So, it's it's to cover the repair cost of the devices. Okay, so at this point I think we have Mr. Perry. Just wait. I

149just want to make one final comment for the record. Yeah. I know that they have three kids. I got three kids, 25 bucks is Some people who are people who maybe I I qualify for free and reduced lunch, $25 is a if they got three kids is a big deal. And I just want people to keep that in mind when we vote. The fact Okay. All right, so basically we have two options. I think the only thing we we're discussing, unless somebody else who would like to discuss the moving the two pre-K classrooms, we're going to be discussing the the student technology fee um and we can just have a yay or nay unless, you know, so basically a yay would be we agree to to put the student technology fee of $25 per student

150um in with, you know, except with exclusion, of course, for anyone who's free and reduced lunch. Um and then and the other side, a nay would be that we we'd like you to come up with another option. Okay. Um Ms. Bowie, would you please call the roll? Ms. Mason? Yes. Ms. Justice? Yes. Ms. Bradford? Yes. Dr. Merrick? Yay. Mr. Wilderboard? Yay. Mr. Perry? No. And Ms. Barnhart? No. Okay, so that passes five to two. So, then we can go on with this budget as Sir? One other thing. Can we take a What did everybody else say, Dr. Barnes, in regards to the the AIG versus TA? Was I the only one who was was swapping them or Was swapping the the AIG teachers for the student technology fee? No, the AIG for the uh the

151assistant principals. Uh People were split on that. It wasn't enough in either direction. Can we take that off the budget? If you'd like to make a motion. I can make a motion. Yeah, these these are not on the budget. Yeah, I thought the only thing that we had discussed AIG is on the is on the budget now, is it not? I'm sorry? AIG is on the budget now, is it? I've made no changes to the AIG budget at this point. So, I guess the I guess the question I I hear I'm hearing you raise is can we swap three assistant principals for three or two? Three. Three. Three AIG teachers. And so we have to vote if you want to. Yes, that. I think what I heard the superintendent say um is when he said,

152"I don't want to make any drastic changes." We may yet find the money to hire uh three assistant principals. It could happen. But if we decide against three uh AIG teachers, then we're going to have to send some people packing or or rearrange them and we don't want to do that if we are going to find that money. We're also sort of getting I'm and you correct me if I'm wrong, sort of deeper into the weeds here. I'm I'm bringing you a budget. The reason we spent so much time talking about it individually with you in small groups is so we wouldn't slow down the process when we got to this point. I would rather since this is new and the AIG teachers are current, I'm concerned about them saying, "We're going to have to

153repurpose you into a different job." And then if the money comes in in a different way, then we turn around and what? Say, "Oops, we were just kidding." I I just am concerned about doing that without knowing the end result. That's That's what what happened with our with our school nurses, right? And we Yeah. Exactly. I get it. That's That's not a good idea. Let's not make those changes uh until we can find the money for the new ones. Okay, so That was my recommendation. Well, again, we have Mr. Perry. Uh would you like to make that motion? So, let's let's go ahead and Yeah, I'll vote for it. Vote for it. Okay. Excuse me. So, I got an indication Mr. Manigo that the superintendent wanted to vote on the last three in some capacity.

154I don't understand what we'd vote on to >> I think what I'm asking you guys to know is that as we move into the next year's budget, I'm including these three things in our letter to the commissioners. Oh. We are going to be watching for things like the EC budget to change, the state funding to change, the federal funding to come in differently, to talk with local and if I can find that money, I think what I'm asking you guys to know is in the budget for next year that these three things are your top priorities for me to do as soon as it's humanly possible. So, do you want to vote on that then? >> I guess I don't need you to vote on it. Just I think you guys need to agree that

155those are the top three. And and I would like to speak to to this. I think one I'm a huge proponent of all three of them. Yeah, those are the But assistant principals, you know, schools need assistant principals and and I'll be honest, I I can't say enough about assistant principals. Principals uh lean heavily on them. The staff needs safety reasons and just a number uh but the second one, the ECTA's, I mean, I've seen some folks that are just unbelievable and just, you know, I'll be honest, I could tell story after story of people doing just going above and beyond on a regular basis day in and day out being spit on everything and just coming back with a smile on their face the next day. So, you know, and then the OT and

156PT, I mean, just just financially, if we don't have those folks, then we have to get them, you know, a contract and that's triple the cost of, you know, so anyway. A couple of other things to consider, too. The state currently does not have a budget. Okay. Mhm. We know. If they come in with a raise that is less than 2%, then we have already budgeted 3% and that money will then be used for something like this. Mhm. Or what if they don't pass a budget until October and then say, "Well, we're not going to retro act back to >> [clears throat and cough] >> then that money can be repurposed. So, that's why there's enough in here. I I guess what I need you to know is that we Miss Sutton and senior staff

157and I will continue to diligently pursue these these three options for our staff. Is that accurate, Miss Sutton? That's correct and of course, if additional revenue is identified, we would bring back through a budget amendment and we would share what we were using those funds for. Any other questions about the budget? So, we're not voting on the budget today. >> Mr. Chair, I would I would move that we recommend those three items as your top priorities as the money flows in in a positive way. I can say that in a positive rather than a negative that we make those the top three of priorities and we direct you that that now so you don't have to come back to us to ask us a second time. You can go ahead and move. Well, I'm still

158going to bring it back to you guys and let you know anyway, but your vote next week will confirm all those things. >> Okay. We just wanted to make sure that we were in the right direction. Okay, never mind. Okay. Well, thank you, Miss Sutton. Thank you very much for all your hard work. Um yeah, you have Thank you. And I also want to remind this group there are six school districts that we know of right now that are in a negative fund balance this school year. Oh, wow. This is the second year in a row that Miss Sutton has maintained our fund balance where it is now. Yeah, yeah, awesome. All right, next on our agenda is policy 21 2210, duties of officers. Uh why that's on there is I do have to give

159my board member my fellow board members an apology. I messed up and when I mess up, I raise my hand and say I messed up and I did. Uh I forgotten we had changed the uh policy uh and so we had uh met with one of our board members and handed a letter and it says very clearly with I was reminded afterwards it says very clearly that that's not a duty of the uh chair and vice chair anymore. It is now duty of the whole board. So, I I do apologize [clears throat] for that. Uh and I would like to make a motion that we uphold and enforce the letter given to Mr. Perry on April 7th, 2026 with new dates and and the consequences that was signed by both Miss Mason and myself. Is

160there a second? Second. Okay, we have first and second. Discussion. Mr. Perry. I have one two-page statement here and if you'll allow me to finish it without interruption, I will have nothing further to say and I'll let you deliberate amongst yourselves. I want the public to understand that we are here today because the peace offer I brought forward to my Republican colleagues has been rejected. I offered to fully and publicly apologize for my Facebook comments directed at Miss Bradford and for my modern-day Pharisees Facebook post directed at all my Republican colleagues. All I asked was that similar public apologies be made by my Republican colleagues for the wrongful actions they took which provoked me to make those social media statements. All Miss Bradford had to do was to apologize for attacking my integrity at April

1611st meeting. All my other Republican colleagues had to do was to publicly admit that they should have heard me out completely before voting to change the employee benefits and we touch the committee to be an advisory committee. Apparently, my Republican colleagues are unwilling to do so. Some might say that for civil for civility's sake, I should be the bigger man and unilaterally apologize anyways. However, while I would love our board to display more civility, I believe that transparency and speaking truth to power are sometimes the more important virtue to practice. Therefore, I stand by the essence of my social media statements. However, even though I am not going to be making any full apologies today, I still want to apologize for a few things. To Miss Bradford, I want to apologize again for the wrongful

162actions I took towards you in 2022 that have seemingly led to your disdain of me. You sat next to me in court and supported me while I sued the prior school board for requiring that masks be worn by attendees of school board meetings. But when I was running the New Hanover County Republican Liberty Caucus and you were seeking our endorsement, I failed to look at my email and see your request to address our group via Zoom. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. I'm so sorry. I did not want to interrupt, but this is going into history that has nothing to do with this letter. It is not about what we're doing today and it's just dragging up the past in a way that con- continues to create division. I would like to be able to hear

163Mr. Perry's statement without going into the deep dark past. And I will rule that that is well taken. So, please make it germane to the current uh letter that was sent to you both. It's germane. All right. Finally, although I believe uh that you hadn't forgiven me for this, um I I I should not have used profanity when remarking about you. So, I want to apologize for that. And finally, I would like to apologize for including Mr. Wilderboer in my list of modern-day Pharisees post. It is no secret that the local Republican Party establishment has hated me for quite some time, did what they could behind the scenes to see that I was not elected and for the last 18 months have been doing what they can to bring me down. And I and I

164believe that it includes pressuring the other three Republicans on this board to do what they could to make sure that I am unsuccessful. I want to finish my statement. >> Mr. Chairman, this is goes to motive of other This is That is not appropriate. It goes to motive. >> my statement. >> Mr. Chairman, I'm asking you to rule on that point of order. It I'm going to say it's not well received in your statement. And then to make sure that I am unsuccessful. However, I don't believe Mr. Wilderboer was ever motivated to act in this manner towards me. My only critique of him is that he has often uh seemingly gone along with his fellow Republicans out of some sense of loyalty. Finally, this board is going to do what it wants regardless of what

165I say. However, if this board decides it must vote for some punitive action towards me today, I suggest a censure rather than removing me from committee assignments. Contrary to what you might think, serving on committees is not a privilege, but part of the job responsibilities we have as board members. When the voters elected Miss Justice, Dr. Merrick and myself to the school board in 2024, they fully expected that we would contribute to the school district by serving on committees as well as attending meetings of the whole board. If you were to remove me from committee assignments, it would be sending the message that your judgment of me is more important than their votes. Finally, we took the oath to uphold the US Constitution when we were sworn in. That includes upholding the First Amendment. The

166proper reaction to free speech we don't like is not to punish it, but for more free speech. Censure is a form of collective free speech that will allow you to condemn what I have said online without violating my First Amendment free speech rights. Thank you for listening and unless somebody else has any specific questions for me, that's all I have to say. Do what you think is right. Other discussion? Mr. Bradford? I have questions as to what you know Yes. And I'm confused as to what it is. I gave you additional items except for the three that you mentioned of of things that should be considered. Did you include that addendum or is that a part of your motion or is that just sitting out there? It's just sitting out there. What I my motion

167was to uphold the letter that I had issued to Mr. Perry uh on the um 7th of this month. So, then I would offer an amendment to your motion to add the addendum listing those I think there's three, there may be four additional items that either occurred before or after your letter so that at least for this current period of the 18 months that we've been dealing with inappropriate social media posts that it would be relatively current. Um so, that would be my motion to add those additional addendum. Okay. items. Is there a second? Hearing none. Yes, sir. Mr. Chair, I move to close Do we have a motion to close debate? We have first and second. Is there any discussion on that? Hearing none. Uh that I believe takes a Let me make sure

168of this. 2/3. >> Simple majority. Oh. Simple majority. Um Um let me make sure my You you're talking in my ear. I will believe you. 2/3. 2/3, yep. Yeah, limit debate is 2/3. Yes, it is. So, we it needs super majority. So, okay. Um all in favor of closing debate, please signify by saying I. I. I. All opposed? Okay, well, you have a super majority. So, debate is closed. We have the motion in front of us to uphold the letter. Um Sue, would you please call the roll? Ms. Mason. Yes. Ms. Justice. Yes. Ms. Bradford. Yes. Dr. Merrick. No. Mr. Wilderboer. Yes. Mr. Perry. No. And Ms. Barnhart. Yes. Okay, that passes five to two. So, that will be in fact effectively uh today. All right. Next, we have no new business. So, we will

169carry on with our closed session. I I call for a motion to go into closed session pursuant to general statute 143-318-11 for the following purposes to prevent disclosure of information as privileged or confidential pursuant to general statute one Excuse me, 115C-402 and not recognized as a public record within the meaning of chapter 132 of the general statutes. Prevent disclosure of student records rendered confidential under family educational rights. To consult an attorney in order to preserve the attorney-client privilege between the attorney and the board and to consider qualifications, competence, performance, character, fitness, conditions of appointment, and conditions of initial employment of an individual employed or considered for employment in the school system, or to hear or investigate a complaint, charge, or grievance for or against any individual employee. Is there such a motion? So moved. Second.

170First and second, any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor, please signify by saying I. I. All opposed? Passes 7-0. We are in closed. If you need to use the any facilities, please be in there by um 4:25. It's 4 minutes. Uh-huh. 4 minutes. 4 minutes. Did you get the clock fixed yesterday, Andrea? I'm sorry? Did you get the >> Mhm. >> Uh, we are back. Welcome back. Welcome back. All right. Um, I would entertain a motion to accept or to Yeah, accept the personnel report. So moved. Second. >> Motion and second. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, like sign. It passes. Do we have everybody? 1 2 3 4 5. Okay. 7-0. Last thing, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. >>

171[laughter] >> Motion and second. Any discussion? I'd like to discuss it because I have 3 minutes left. >> [laughter] >> All in favor of adjournment, please signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Oh, there we got two of us. Sorry. 5-2 it passes. We are adjourned. If you all keep doing it, we won't leave. So, let's not do that. We're getting close.