001Do you have some markers? Like a Like a Thank you. She's right there. Oh. Here. Thanks for yesterday. Being there. I didn't do anything. Do you think that it made sense? Hello. Break it up, Kate. >> [laughter] >> Yep, we got a quorum. All right, opening the meeting. I'm going to call to order. Please. Pam Bradford. I am here. Judy Justice. Josie Barnhart. Kim Clark. Paul Slavic. Hannah Moon. Philip Sutton. Here. Charlene Thompson. Here. Jared Worthington. Here. Stephanie Walker. Rob Zapple. Here. Natalie English. Here. John Hinnett. Here. Christopher Riley. Livian Jones. Eric Cradle. Here. Amanda Kusiak. Lisa Wortzbacher. All right. Let's do the pledge and then the indication we have recorded and people give me some of the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to
002the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Hello, this is Tom Hauser at the Global River Church. We're calling in for the invocation to bless the board. First, we want to We want to thank you and honor all those that give such uh support to our children, the education and the stuff that you go through. We certainly honor and and uh thank you for your service. And right now we want to pray. Lord, we just thank you that you are the God who is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above what we ask or think. We also know that in Jeremiah 33:3 it says, "Call to me and I'll answer you and I will show you great and mighty things." One of the great names of
003our God is that he is Jehovah Jireh. He's a provider. So, Lord, we know for the finances, for the support, for the wisdom to be able to um figure out how to do budgets and how to spend it wisely for the most benefit. So, Lord, we pray for our children. We pray for their protection. We also pray for your your your sovereign covering over all the board members for their unity and purpose. We know that um Psalm 133 says that God blesses and he actually commands a blessing when we we dwell together. That means operate together in unity. Unity is powerful. So is disunity. So, Lord, we pray for a unified board. We pray for unified decision-making. And in the midst of it, Lord, you're the one who leads, guides, and directs. So, we ask
004that you lay out the pathway that all of these uh those that are called to this position would be able to honor both God and man. But we also know that the primary thing for all of us is that our children would be protected and educated to be able to excel and be able to face all the challenges that are before them in their lives. So, we thank you, Lord, for what you're doing and we give you praise and glory in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. That's good. All right. Next up, approval of the agenda. Until be honest, it's a little loose today. Um we're going to re-age rearrange it slightly. We're going to do an exercise with Dr. Barnes >> [snorts] >> and then go into the budget and then we're going to
005talk about the bond. So, with those changes, can I have a move motion to approve, please? Nobody jump up? Thank you. Okay, we have a first and a second. All in favor, say I. I. All opposed, no. All right. Agenda is approved. Same with the minutes. I hope you had a chance to read them. Um she is doing Jenny is doing a really good job with our minutes um in terms of just exactly what we're talking about and all the details that we might forget meeting to meeting. So, may I have a motion I'll move to approve the minutes. Do I have a second? Okay. First and a second on the minutes. All in favor, say I. I. All opposed, no. All right, minutes are passed. All right, Dr. Barnes, let's do our exercise, which
006is going to be your slide. >> Before you guys look at your slides, we're going to do the math first. Ooh, so don't cheat at this point in time. So, you're probably going to need to pull out your phone or something to do math on. You're more than welcome to do the math in your head, but whatever. All right. We often talk with our employees about the difference between your salary and your compensation. And all of you guys who are business owners know what I'm talking about, that what it costs to pay an employee, what the employee takes home, and what the district invests in an employer are two different numbers. So, I want to just show you the stark difference in these numbers just so you can have a chance to mess with them
007yourself a little bit. I'm going to pull out a marker. Thank you. All right, first things first, a plumber. One of our four plumbers, by the way, for 45 buildings. Our plumber our average plumber salary is 58,000 $620. That is their gross, obviously, [snorts] not their net. So, that is what we pay a plumber, average salary. What are some of the things we need to add in when we pay this employee? What are some of the additional things? Social Security tax, right? Yep, health insurance. Health insurance is the one thing that costs the same no matter what a person is. It's $8,500 every single employee. That's our hospitalization number. That's how much we put into their health insurance. So, they get health insurance. We pay 8,500. Okay, Social Security. You take that number 58,620, multiply
008it by 0.0765. And someone tell me what that number is. 4,480. Mhm. So, for us to give this guy >> 4,480. And Social Security, by the way, is required. We have to pay it for everybody. Um interestingly enough, that's how some districts have gotten behind is they don't pay their Social Security to the government and then they have to pay it all back. But for us, it's 44 and this guy is 4454. 4480. 4484. Isn't that a serious crime? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. What's up? Yep. If school districts are doing it, okay. Here's where our our argument about why could I could be a TA, I could be I could go work at Bojangles and make $18 an hour. What Bojangles does not give you is a pension. This year's 24 64. 2464. So,
009take our favorite plumber's average salary again and multiply it by 2464. Did I I'm sorry if I didn't say it. 0.2464. Thank you. 14,443. Yep. >> [clears throat] >> Retirement. Give me that number again. 14,443. Okay, we're going to go with 14,461. That costs enough. All right. And then finally, uh average salary. Okay. Now, we add that up. 86065. Wow. Okay, close enough. When we talk about how Do you guys remember the number we told you how much of our overall operating budget is personnel? Do you remember what that percentage is? 83% of all the money we receive from the state, from the county, from the feds goes to this number. So, when the plumber says, "I only make 58 grand a year." For us to invest in that employee, it's 86. Let's do a
010teacher and then I'll let you guys go back to what you guys were Look at that. That's why you have good people. All right. The average teacher in New Hanover County is not the average teacher salary in state. Does anyone know why that is? Mhm. Because we provide one of the highest supplements in the state. So, teachers The average teacher salary is 62 680. 62 880. Now, you'll hear people say, "Well, that's only for 10 months of work." If you actually know a teacher, you know that half their summer is spent working, too. So, that's not really exactly accurate, but it's still 62 880. What did we say the hospitalization number was again? 8,500 employee. Oops. Just pretend that's over there. Okay. And then social security take that 62 880, multiply it by 0.0765. You
011getting 4810? Yeah. All right. Now, let's do 0.2426 for retirement. Retirement is 24.467%. So, 0.2467. Thank you. Same top line. Yep, that's what that's people. Now, that doesn't include what the employee themselves puts into retirement. They have to put in 6% of their own salary as well, but we're putting in almost 25% of their yearly salary. Add those numbers up and what do you get? Someone should have already been doing that, I'm sure. Yep. Why can't you just hire more teachers? Because they don't cost us 60 grand. They cost us $91,000 a piece. That means that a million dollars only gets you 11. Now, when someone says to me a million dollars, I go, "Oh my god, that's way more than I'll have all retirement. That's a huge amount of money." And so, when I
012Ashley goes, "We have a million dollars we can put into staffing." I'm like, "Oh my god, we have fixed all the problems." It's 11 teachers. That doesn't fix really any of the problems we have. So, I just wanted to remind you and we talked to our staff about this ad nauseam about the amount that we invest in employees, but I think doing the math really tells because when we get our money from our local government, that comes as money. It doesn't come as positions. So, every time we want to add a teacher, it adds $91,000 to our budget. Ta-da! You have that on slide two. >> Now, you can go look at your slide. >> to take that home with you? Um And yeah, the business people in the room will know that the staff
013never know how much their actual um annual salary is because they don't think about the retirement, health insurance, social security. And we have a way for them to log in and see that for themselves. They can put in their information and it'll spit out for them exactly what the local what the district investment is in them. But I think it's important to note that our teachers are significantly higher than the state average for a variety of reasons. One of them being their experience. One of them being is we have one of the highest national board ratios in the state. So, when the state talks about doing a weighted student funding formula and just passing a dollar amount over to the schools, both Ms. Sutton and I are concerned that that would equate to less staff
014for us. So, when you go somewhere where they're filled with new teachers, yeah, that benefits them. The differential there is about 20 to 25,000 dollars between a new teacher and an and the average. For us, that's a challenge. So, that's something we keep bringing up and exploring with them. Sir. >> [clears throat] >> analysis for the median as opposed to the average. So, that those I'm trying to get to where our teachers are being paid, you know, 50 cent below or 50 cent higher. Right. What is the median you know, teacher salary in New Hanover County? I did not know I'd be sitting and taking the ACT today. So, I'll pass that over there. >> Well, neither did I. >> [laughter] >> Do Do we >> we got that, but I don't have it with
015me. I see. Um well, I'm just instinct-wise cuz you've got great instincts. Are we looking at, you know, 50,000 dollars a year base salary for a median? Do you want to I don't know. I think it's closer to that number, the 60 60,000 58,000, but I don't know for sure. There's a lot of conversation around starting teacher pay. Do we know what that is? Yeah, the starting teacher Our starting teacher in in the district make about 41. 41,000 because we have a $7,000 on the beginning teacher salary. I will tell you that part of the concern is for me, raising the starting teacher salary is a lot like you're having company come over and so you put a lot of stuff in the closet and under the bed. The house looks clean, but it's really
016not any cleaner than it was before. Jacking up the starting salary is great. It draws in new teachers. It brings new blood into the system. That's great. But they don't ever increase the top number. Every time you increase the starting teacher salary and don't move the whole scale, you're compressing it. So, teachers see more for the first five years, but then you still have from year 15 to 25 where they stagnate and don't get any raise at all. So, almost everyone does a step in lane salary structure, which means you have [clears throat] your scale, different kinds of people on it, and then it scales down based on years of experience. A teacher ordinarily thinks, "Hey, there's a 30-year salary structure. I get a step up every year." That only happens when the state approves
017of cost of living adjustment. If they just do a step increase or just do If they just do a step increase, it doesn't necessarily increase your salary. And if there's a year they don't do a step increase, you stay at the same level you're at. So, it doesn't match how many years you've done. Does that make sense? They have to do a step increase for you to move one step down the scale, and they don't always do that. So, I could be teaching 20 years, but still be on step 15. Our average teacher pay. That's not the average in North Carolina. Yeah. >> Yeah. And one of the things that we as board members have really sort of honed in on is that year 15 to year 25, you've got a season teacher, and they
018got 10 years with no increase. No increase to look forward to. Now, the reason that happened is because they jacked up the beginning teacher pay and didn't move the whole scale. And there were several years that we were stalled out in early 2007, 2012, all that area. You didn't see an increase at all. And so, those things just marked into the salary and stayed where they were. Yeah. Yeah. She was very effective at communicating that as a experienced teacher, she hadn't seen a pay increase. But it's not just about our teacher salaries, either. Our teacher assistants make more than the average. And when you remember when we did that exercise the last time, what they send us is what they think is 175 teacher assistants, but it really only pays for 156 ish for us
019because we pay on the average a dollar more an hour than the state average. So, averages if they use this weighted student in funding formula to send us the money, the averages will not benefit this district. Dr. Barnes, is the is the health insurance self-funded or is that something you bid out and occasionally or That's >> the state. The state bids to that, but it's through the state. Okay. Now, we bid out our supplemental health insurance stuff. But, the the state health insurance is now Aetna. It was Blue Cross Blue Shield. It's a state-funded thing. Right. And that's in the news now, so Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hm. But, it's also hard because teachers all staff saw an increase to their health insurance their premiums this year, but they didn't see a raise. Dr. Barnes also
020can you stand behind the oddness that we experience in the county when the state does bring more money to the table, what does it do to those teachers and those employees that we pay for? Good. Very Look at you. Good question. Thank you, sir. >> when the state A plus. So, when the state gives a raise, and they could say we're giving 5%. Look how wonderful we are as legislators. We care about everybody. We're giving a 5% increase. They only send that 5% on for people that are state paid. Mhm. So, principals, good. A good number of teachers, good. But, anybody who's paid locally or paid with federal dollars, we have to fund all of that raise ourselves. Now, we obviously can't say, "Well, you're state funded, so you get the whole raise. Well, you're
021paid locally, so we're only going to give you 2 and 1/2." Everybody gets what everybody gets. But, as I've used this example before, I've got one I've got what what are we 16 people here? I got two pizzas. Everyone gets a piece of pizza. If you want someone to have two pieces of pizza, then someone has to step away from the table and give their slice up. So, when a raise happens that's over what we expect, wonderful. Our teachers deserve it. Our staff deserves it, but we have to front that out of our budget somehow. And the only other way to do it now is to have less people eating pizza. Or to come back to the county for more money. Obviously. Yeah. Okay. Do employees know if they're locally funded or state funded? Doesn't
022really matter. It doesn't matter, but do they And they do not. No, they do not. And And some people are are split funded. Some people are funded all sorts of different ways. It because we normalize the raise for everybody, it really doesn't And we also move it around a little bit, so the state gives us a lot of money into position allotments. They don't care how much that person makes. That person's a teacher. So, we put the highest paid teachers into the state funding allotment so that our local and federal money goes further. Right. >> And that can change every year. >> Yeah, so depending every year, actually twice a year, we analyze everybody's pay and make sure we're paying them out of the bucket where we're going to get the most bang for our
023buck. And so, you may be state paid this year, and we may hire some experienced people over the summer, and next year you might be locally paid. So, it just depends on how your salary falls and how many position allotments we get versus dollar allotments. But, I will tell you that this staffing is a national concern. Finding good people is a huge issue all over the place. Every business you talk to, it's not about they can't find people. So, we are constantly racing. We will have people um the reason one of the reasons we talked to HR about improving our hiring timeline is because if you wait too long, they're gone. And we've had people who have got a job offer from Pender, from Brunswick, and from two schools in our district all in the
024same day. And then that person calls back, and guess who gets to decide where they're going to work? That person. Because we're going to help them find the place that they're most comfortable at. But, it it is a you know, my daughter is a rising junior at University of College of Charleston College of Charleston. I have to say it right. Excuse me. She's going to be dual certified in middle grades math and English. So excited. They're just going to fight to get someone who has dual certification. If she walked in with a math and an English, hired. She She may even We hire people when we've met them because they have an EC background and experience. You've got good references. You've got good background checking. We're hiring you today simply because we don't want to
025let those people get away. That's how cutthroat it's become. And I I wanted to piggyback on that real quick because I think people who don't who haven't worked in schools in the hiring process don't don't often recognize. We have a very short hiring window for the most part, and we are competing with everybody else in the exact same hiring window. And that's That is where That's where the problems become problematic. That's where when you talk about culture, when you talk about climate, when you talk about how we treat our employees, those things really matter. Having the right principals in the right seats in the right schools lends itself to retention. And we are seeing a retention increase. For 2 years in a row, we have been our turnover rate has been lower than the state
026average. It has been either the top two or three in the big 12 as well. So, those are good things. Okay, ready to move on? Any other questions on that? Does that all make sense? And you've got one more. You've got teacher assistants on that sheet just to help you figure if you want to look at it. Put it on your bulletin board. Start out at 33 and then end up at 524. All right. So, next we wanted to share some good information from yesterday. We're excited to share that um we passed our first hurdle related to the bond. >> [laughter] >> So, um yes. Yeah, applause to all of y'all cuz you wouldn't have gotten there without y'all. So, Eric, I guess May 4th you'll be hopefully submitting that application to the LGC, and
027then we'll um look for some information for May 18th um when that'll be introduced. No, the application probably won't be received May the 4th. They probably don't even approve it until after the referendum, and you've got February the 27th. No, there are, but in the next few weeks things get pretty busy. So, we filed the application to the LGC on May the 4th. On May the 18th, kind of a more formal bond order is introduced by the commissioners, and they set the public hearing on May the 18th. They set They set the They set that public hearing for June the 1st. So, It's the second. I think it's the second slide. Third. Oh, third. Sorry. That's okay. Yeah, we were going to We were going to We're going to go over that maybe now. Yep,
028no. Um we we just wanted to share the good news, and we put the calendar in here for the committee so you have it to refer back to. Um so, unless Dr. Barnes or anyone else has anything, I was just wanting to give you an update on that calendar. Yeah, this is all county This is the county calendar. Not the school district, but obviously we're Yeah, it'd be fun to go um on June 1st as many of us can go. And just to let you know when we get to our calendar, um we're probably not going to meet in June. And I will go and speak at the public comment meeting as well just in support of how you guys have been supportive of us. And And Eric, I have a question. It may seem
029um naive, but when you file the application, is that just a matter of you shoot it off electronically or you put it in the mail? Uh we do we send it electronically, and we're we're in constant contact with them. We've got our first introductory call with them on Thursday of this week to kind of introduce the process of the application to be there May 4th, and give them background on it and any feedback they've got, and then they'll be in contact with us with any questions or concerns they've got with the application even though they don't formally approve it until February of next year. Cool. May I speak for all of us when I say, "May the 4th be with you?" >> [cough and clears throat] >> Okay. But, next >> It's very Catholic of
030you. Yes, go ahead. On June 1st, they'll have the public hearing and adopt the resolution on that on the at that meeting? Question mark. That's the plan. Okay, cool. Okay. And then, what are there There are no other votes then? We can We can start running after that, right? Okay. June 1st June 1st is the last sort of board action, and then there's a lot of stuff going on in the background including the advocacy. So, yeah. Well, well, I all I need to know is when it's official and I can start my work or our work. So, thank you. 5:00 on the 1st. Right. So, the June 4th we're doing work behind the scenes, too, FYI. What is Describe that to us. It's It's a newspaper publication, so it gives them the legal notice. >>
031section of the newspaper. Cool. Basically reports on what the board has elected to put on the bond referendum. And then that sort of happens again on the 27th in the in September 8th. Publish again a special referendum part. Yeah, the the two little bit different documents. So, published bond order is is is the same bond order that the commissioners will be adopting or introducing on May the 18th. And then the special bond referendum is just more of what the ballot question will actually look like. So, out of curiosity Dr. Morgan and Eric on February 2nd if the LGC approves the bond order, what's the next thing that happens? We Dr. Morgan and I would coordinate and begin the process for debt issuance. That's obviously a little bit of a process as well. It's a several
032month process to act you know, this on February the 2nd they'd be approving the results of the bond referendum and us issuing the debt. And then we get through the all the bond document prepa- preparation and it'll probably be sometime maybe by June 30th before the first debt be issued is on timeline. And at what point are the is all the the commercial building part of it At what point is that started? Not the building, but the process of selecting the vendors and um having all the plans and so on and so forth. Where does that fall into this? Cuz we see that the media reports it's a 2 to 3 year process. But people are asking. Yeah, well, I mean I think the I think once we get to the point where we know
033that it is moving forward, then I think we'll be able to start doing some of that stuff behind the scenes. But we obviously can't we can't bring anybody on board until we've got funds in place. But I think the work can begin, the the work, not building, but the work towards getting things built can begin, yes. And just one question, cuz I've been asked this and I don't know the answer, but basically let's say we have five builds. You know, we have two rebuilds. Um but can they all come out of the ground at the same time or does it have to be staggered because of the insurance? It'll have to be staggered. And who decides? Is it Does Does the decision on which one's first, second, or third come with how much of the
034planning and the design and so on is ready? I think yes. In my opinion, I I think some of the things they lend themselves to beginning sooner rather than later. In some case it could be uh how far along are the plans versus have we even started the plans? So, in to me there's an argument made that we might begin one project that is far along and we might also begin another one where we're starting from scratch. Because you're going to be using resources and one is going to take longer to get off the ground. But we've got five building projects and um proposed. And so, based on my understanding of how the the debts would be Is it Is it tranche or tronche? Tronche. Tronche. Okay. Um I I think based on my understanding
035we've got three tranche disbursements and so, we have talked about the way that we would I you know, ideally um spread out the beginning of those projects over the timelines that align with those disbursements. So But I think it's also I will say I think it's also important to note that the money alone is not what's what would determine those projects. We've got to have the capacity to actually get those things done. So, it it's going to be a matter of planning to ensure that we've got the resources financially, the labor as well. Okay. the one we thought was going to start first? It's going probably going to be third. I mean, you find things in older buildings, you find things on sites. The development process you can't tell a constituent we're going to start
036here. There's a process of all of the entities that we have to go through to get permits, etc. I don't know about the funding that we have internally to do things up front. But it's like you said, you can't sign contracts until you have the money to pay for things and that's up to you guys, but we've got four large projects that have all kind of over time flip phasing time, so it's I think our goal >> world nothing's perfect. I think our goal would be to be as prepared as we possibly can be to hit the ground running once the money is released. And that's just going to involve a lot of conversations and a lot of planning and you know, we'll be as prepared as we possibly can be without actually signing those
037contracts. Okay, good. Um maybe when we meet again, which will be you know, it's not immediately, we could have could be educated on steps. Cuz Jones understands and you understand and Natalie understands, but maybe the rest of us don't. Um in terms of the steps of the coming up out of the ground part, the permitting. Most people don't think, but I know I've read back when we had our very first meeting we had some architects here and we had a private public guy here and I read about those entities and they talked about Well, they said this one would start on this day, but they ran into a permitting problem or the the lines on the lot weren't right and so it was delayed by a couple of years. So, I read about those things
038which disappoint the public. Because they think, you know, whatever's in print um in the local media is actually true. Um so, with just general education of the next steps. >> And the other thing The other entity that we have to rely on as well as DPI. So, we have to submit any all plans to DPI and that you know, we rely on their timeline for review as well. See, if you could just give us those kind of steps, you know, not necessarily in order, but I didn't realize the plans had to go to DPI. I wonder what their turnaround is, you know, that kind of thing. So, is DPI managing the process? No, they have to they have to review and approve all plans, however. >> And it's the the LGC is sort of involved
039all the way along, too. Aren't they? Don't they like come and not inspect, but come and Cool. They They talked about moving Um on the [clears throat] Sorry. I was like, wait, what? Yeah. You get no vote. Uh Eric um says here August 27th through September 8th you published notice of the special bond referendum. Is that going to be the language that's on the ballot? I believe so, Lisa. I was trying to recall. I think it is. Um we can look at it a little bit, but it may just be the notice that there is going to be a special election for or is an election for the the bond referendum. Cuz September 4th absentee ballots must be available to military and overseas voters. And so, I'm just I'm just concerned about the timeline of
040getting everything In other words, ballots will be printed by September 4th. Okay. Thank you. Good night. Good night. Say again, Natalie? I can't hear you. >> [clears throat] >> 4th is the when the language is delivered to the Board of Elections. And it's included in printing of all ballots, so they'll be ready. That's why the votes have to happen so much earlier than than you might think if you're just a you know, just an observer. Rob here, because of the work that's been done by LS3P in reference to the New Hanover High School should we make any assumption that they would be the New Hanover High School portion of the bond work would be at the top of the list or certainly be considered in that first tranche? Yes, that would be my recommendation. I
041think because we're because of where we have stopped with the process of that particular site and because of the work they've put into it already to help us continue moving forward um I I would encourage that be at the top of the list. Good to know. Thank you. People are asking. They're concerned. Yeah. Yeah. Me first, you know. Um All right. Any other questions for that? And going once, going twice. And then we get into the budget. Okay, so we wanted to give an update to this group. I know we talked about the budget last time we met, um but we have made some adjustments. We are in balance with our budget, so that's where we like to be. Um So, I wanted to share some of the things that made it into the budget
042or didn't make it into the budget for this group. Um So, some of this will be a repeat. This is Yep, page four in your package. Um so, this is sharing the revenue. Um as we talked about before, you know, our biggest hurdle going into this year is that we used one-time funding um or I'm sorry, going into next year is this year we used one-time funding to balance the budget, that 2.1 million. Remember that came from FEMA reimbursement and then also the sale of um 13.4, I think, acres over at Johnson pre-K center. So, we kind of started in the hole, unfortunately, um as we worked on this budget. Um we evaluated fines and forfeitures. Um we wanted to make sure we didn't budget too high this year for fines and forfeitures since we
043knew the red light money went away. And so, based on what we're seeing coming in this year, we felt confident increasing fines and forfeitures by that 554,000. Feel like we'll be in good shape with that. We are going to ask for a 3% increase from the county. Um and that will provide an additional um 3.1 million dollars. And then we're also going to or I'm say I'm saying going to we're going to recommend the board has not voted on any of this. Um we're going to recommend to start um uh student technology fee. It would be $25, an annual fee of $25 per student for those students that don't qualify for free or reduced lunch. Um and then also we were going to recommend moving two classrooms, one's at Blair and one's at Murrayville, um
044to um one of our other pre-K centers that have certified NC pre-K classrooms because if the classrooms are not NC pre-K certified, we can't request reimbursement for those classrooms. And so, by moving two classrooms from those schools to a center um would help us um with revenue 178,000 approximately um is what we would be able to generate from moving two classrooms. Let me break that down for you guys a little more in detail. >> [clears throat] >> Our our two funding sources for pre-K are the county, the local county government, and NC pre-K, which is a reimbursement program where we bill for kids who go through the program. Currently, NC pre-K only pays for 47% of the cost of having a pre-K program. There are four sites in back in the time when we had
045uh county funding, we had Head Start funding, and we had NC pre-K, we sort of had pre-K's all over the place, and the money sort of made itself work out. Now, however, these four sites, two at Murrayville and two at Blair, we receive zero dollars back from NC pre-K. So, the burden of those four classrooms are completely on the county. The [clears throat] idea is this year in October, November, we're allowed to certify new rooms. Our chance only comes around once every 3 years to certify rooms with NC pre-K. Our plan is to certify those rooms at Blair and Murrayville so that we can then begin billing for NC pre-K, but you can't do it until the following year. To exacerbate the problem, there are 3-year-olds who are currently at Blair and Murrayville now. We
046think it's a needless disruption to move kids who've already spent a year at Blair and Murrayville over to Howe and then back again. So, we will leave two sites at the current schools, one at each, so that they those kids that are already embedded in that school can stay there. But at least this gets us at least half of the cost back by shifting those two rooms even temporarily. That is not a terribly popular decision, but again, our goal is to get as many rooms possible certified so that we can have some more flexibility. However, right now what we have is zero funding for those classrooms. So, this is sort of like a you know, Solomon splitting the baby, so to speak, and saying let's let's at least get some, but still accommodate the kids
047who are already there. And I just wanted And this also helps us continue to serve the same 540 students that we served last year and this year go and going into next year, so we wouldn't have to reduce um that number, those number slots. It's not because there are two separate K-12 is one is the state's responsibility, pre-K is a separate state entity entirely. I think um I would like to just commend the and I don't want to call it creativity, but the the uh commend the the active exploration of how you you've fully fund, fully tap into funds available for pre-K or whatever. I want to encourage more of that because I you know, if there's funding available and and a moving of a seat makes it accessible, that's the kind of thing I
048think we need to get get really honed in on to make sure we're we're grabbing every every penny that's available. So, great job, Ashley and Dr. Barnes. Well, I think that I think we can all agree that our goal, if we had a perfect world, universal pre-K would be part of that world. The step towards that is getting more slots. The step towards getting more slots is to make pre-K financially sustainable so that we can then move towards adding more slots for children. However, we're just we're still working our way out of a hole with that. So, it it's going to be some tough conversations, I think, over the next several years, but this is at least one step to help move the needle in the right direction. Well, and and my comments beyond this
049this particular >> Correct. right? This particular find, but I encourage you to keep finding the ways that we can find revenue, so to speak. Great job. If we plan on certifying a pre-K classroom, was there was there a bathroom thing or what's the brick and mortar component of it? Yeah, okay. Buckle up. It's it's very very extremely complicated, but the problem with having pre-K I'm sure it is. So, the the big ticket items I know of back from when I was a principal having pre-K, there's a square footage for the room. There are all sorts of centers and things that are required inside the room. A sink and a bathroom are the next two and an exterior door. And pre-K playgrounds. And the sink and that wall line. Correct. And you just got to have
050a So, the wall line Well, yeah. Yeah. So, there honestly, the sink the bathroom requirement is more of a supervision requirement than it is a space requirement. I I'm going to keep going until you guys stop me. So, you have to maintain a ratio of 1:9 in those rooms. Two teachers, 18 kids, a teacher and a TA. Two adults, 18 kids. If you have an exterior bathroom where the kids have to travel to go to, you can't maintain the the supervision requirements with an exterior bathroom. You'd have to take all of them all together at one time. So, basically, the bathroom itself is more of a just a logistical thing. The sink is a requirement, the exterior door, the playgrounds, those things are requirements. I just want to because you mentioned this wasn't necessarily the
051most popular decision um to move two classrooms from Blair and Murrayville to other locations. I think the reason is important. We made the best fiscal decision, uh but when I was an elementary principal, I wanted that pre-K at my building because those students were so ready. They were so used to my systems, my structures, my programs. And so, when they came back in kindergarten, it was like they were they were completely ready to start the the year as as 5-year-olds in the building. So, it's the right decision, but it comes at a trade-off, and that's one of the things we've talked about a lot is having to make decisions based on what is in the best interest of everyone, but still has an impact. And I would tell you that when I talk to parents,
052slots are our primary goal. I do not want to go with less slots than we have, and if we want more, we're going to have to make decisions to get there. Because the more kids that we have, beyond just an academic reason, we can look at all sorts of reasons. Early intervention, early diagnosis, concerns about um families in crisis, we can get to those kids earlier, we can support those kids earlier. More pre-K is a good thing in this school [cough] system. But more pre-K [clears throat] requires some investment as well. Dr. Barnes, could you talk for just a second? You bet. Um >> [laughter] >> Better than anybody I know. Blair and Murrayville, a portion of students, not all the students in pre-K now, but a portion of. Can you go over that again
053so it it becomes real clear? Cuz you're leaving some students there that are that are So there are and again, the board has [clears throat] not voted on this particular part of things yet. I've shared with them this. We're going to present this budget more in full on Tuesday at the agenda review. They will vote on it at the agenda on the 5th of May. The regular meeting. Oh, that's the agenda review. Sorry, at the meeting on the 5th of May and then it'll go on to to you guys. The um The other thing on NC pre-K is NC pre-K does not re- reimburse for 3-year-olds. They only reimburse for 4-year-olds. So we have begun to shift more towards 4-year-olds than 3-year-olds. But there are a number about 20 kids broken against across Blair and
054Murrayville who are in the building now as 3-year-olds. They would again be at that school again as 4-year-olds. So we want to make sure those students and families have the option to stay where they've already become sort of in invested and embedded. So we're moving classrooms. But not kids. That's a good point. We're moving classrooms, not kids. And again, this is a temporary shift. And it's two of the four. Two of the four. And so so um current families with slots won't lose spots at those schools. If the slot number will remain the same, but the kids who are already slotted in there and are there currently will stay there. And again, you can say to yourself, well this is only a $178,000. However, we are at this place. We're at the place now where
055I'm scraping together smaller amounts of money to get the job done. Where we are having to look at I mean I 178,000, you can say, well can't you just kind of make that work? We're not in the make that work place anymore. We are guarding every dollar. Oh, she would nail me if >> [clears throat] >> if I step out of line. All right. >> Robert, I can't hear you. Could you use the microphone? So I'll bring it closer. There. Can you hear me now? >> Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh The pre-K funding there's a number that you know, first let me start with Title I funds. I know last year you were able to use some Title I funds to make the pre-K happen. Are we doing the same thing again this year? Currently
056we have the same number of pre-K slots budgeted in our budget that we have now. >> [cough] >> We have the same number of slots. This past year we used Title I carryover money to help balance that. We have a lot of that same amount of Title I carryover for this upcoming school year as well. Thank you. What, if anything, is lost by that using that carryover money? Are there some students in some schools that are not being served or they're losing funding to support the pre-K? I asked him the same question last week in a different way and and it was helpful to have that answer. Thank you, Pat. Madam Chair. I'm trying to make sure I say this correctly. So Ashley, please stop me if I say this incorrectly. We all carryover money
057is used because we're never 100% sure how much Title I money is going to come from the government or not. So having enough money and pulling together every extra dollar that doesn't get spent and then carrying it over allows us to balance variances that happen over time. If I was if I had access to that Title I carryover money, I would say that some of that money would go back to the schools in a reallocation. You guys know we lost 800 kids this past school year. Our most recent documentation about 700 of those kids are low-income families. Which means the overall Title I budget will be decreasing next year. I have to pass those decreases on to the schools. This would help minimize that if I wasn't using that for pre-K. However, at the same
058time, families depend on pre-K. We see good results with kids who come to pre-K. So I don't want us to get in the idea that we're we're shortchanging schools in order to fund pre-K. It's not really the way that it's working. It's just the fact that we have this much money and this many needs and we're trying to stretch them through all of them. So if your question is if I didn't use that Title I money for pre-K, part of it would go back to the schools to help minimize their decrease from Title I. Did I Did I say that correctly? Yes. Did I miss anything? If you want to feel really guilty, just look 90° to your right. Uh the second part of the question is there's a a number that we're we have
059penciled in at our county budget, a little over $900,000 for pre-K. Is that money necessary to make pre-K work? Am I okay in saying that? Yeah, okay. Let me say it this way. Am I going to I am cutting things to help ensure that pre-K stays where it is. So in that regard, would that money be available for use in any number of other ways? Yes. Could it help balance out making sure that every of our every one of our elementary schools has a full-time AP? Yep. Would it help me balance out funding for uh we propose to to increase the funding for special ed TAs? Could it help balance that? There's a lot of things that money could do if I wasn't using a certain amount of money to ensure the same number of
060slots that we have now. To cover. Yeah, I get it. Second part of this is when will pre-K become sustainable so that every year we're not having this scramble? Yeah, it's the same. Uh so we're not having to scramble for it every year. Well, and You're that's a that's a difficult question because it's not pre-K is not the fault of any of this, right? So I don't want you to think that and I never want principals to feel like they have to battle oh, I don't get this because we have this. That's not appropriate for our principals or our teachers to feel that way. I will tell you that we are talking the board has directed me to build a protocol for looking at a 10-year sustainability plan for the district. To say, where do
061we want to sit in 2035? Some of that's the bond. Some of that's conversation we have to have, but most of that's a conversation we have with the public. Because I want to make sure that this district is flourishing a decade from now. Funding has to be part of that conversation. Overhead, what we're choosing to do has to be part of that conversation. So I don't want to say that if we had money, pre-K wouldn't be shortchanging something else. It's not really that way because I don't think we want to have any less pre-K slots than we have now. It comes at a cost. And I think that when I talk to families about what I call a subsistence level, I don't have the money now where I can choose this instead of that. Or
062where I where I can choose I want to add this. I have I'm now we are now at the place where I have to trade something in to do something else. Because there just is no more money that we can find. So anytime that if the county says we're going to lean back in or the county's going to support us in a certain way, that money, it's a rising tide, it's going to float all boats. So if you say, hey, we wanted to give you more money and we wanted to go to pre-K, then other local money that I'm using to sup- support pre-K will go back to schools in another way. Does that answer your question? It does, but let's go back to, you know, the 3%. Uh I I feel confident that uh
063if your goal is to have the 3% increase, that that money's going to be there. But what I'm >> point I can't balance we can't balance the budget without it. We will have to cut student-facing staff if that 3% doesn't appear. Got it. I think you you made that point really clear and I think >> to. >> [laughter] >> You know, I think you have great support for that. But what I'm hearing is a similar conversation we're having at the county. You know, do you really need If you had it, you could put it to good use, but I could make the same argument on a number of different levels at the county as well. That if we had that money, that $916,000 that uh got 200 and almost 50,000 residents who could put good
064use to that money as well. I'm trying to determine you know, what how necessary that separate bucket the 3% is already there. So, the $916,000 is it better spent here in the schools or in a multiple of other places in the county? You put a question to me a couple of weeks ago to ask me what we're going to do to improve disparities in some of our schools and support for our teachers. That's what that $916,060 will do. It will do what you said that we needed. Why isn't that built in then with that entire importance to the 3% or is the 3% really you need 3 and 1/2%? Well, jeez, I I need six. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it that's the that's the I I'm trying to I'm trying to look at this more
065globally. Like, there is a limit of Now, I will tell you that I've been talking with the big 12, which of course are the other 12 large districts. And they're putting forth additional requests to their county of 30, 40 million dollars. We are also asking this community to explore a bond that will be beneficial to this school for decades system for decades to come. I want to be reasonable. I want to be fiscally responsible. And the reason why I brought you 3% is the 3% just keeps me exactly treading water, exactly where I am right now with nothing else new in it. Including having to do a technology P and everything else. So, I guess the question back to you is when I talked to some of our legislators, they said you seem to be
066doing pretty well. So, my question back is good enough is that good enough? I if I if I'm going to get farther than we are now, it's going to require an investment. That investment is going to mean people. Because you can't program your way out of this stuff. I see Paul having to do three different jobs every day. I see Philip running till 9:00 every single night to try to cover the losses we've experienced. So, do I need that $916,000? You bet. But why did I not come and ask you for it? Because I'm trying to be reasonable and fair. Actually, I I I was a principal of a school that was a Title I school and lost the Title I because, you know, we got more and more uh high wealth uh folks in
067in and boy, I tell you that was devastating to our school. You know, some of the some many of the things that have been entrenched in the school that we were there that were supporting some of those students that really cuz we still had a lot of the same students that really had those needs and all of a sudden that, you know, that Title I uh teacher was gone and was in and teachers were scrambling. They were like, "But we've always sent it to you know, to Ms. Hart." And Ms. Hart was always there and you know, what in the world? So, you know, that's again what that $900,000 does. It also frees up uh Dr. Barnes to use some of those Title I monies in Title I schools where they are so so needed.
068Um you know, and so we don't we're not saying that, you know, and I think he's being more than reasonable to say, you know, well, we can we can you know, piece this together and we have charged him with coming up with a plan. So, you know, you had to ask before, well, how how are we going to not have the same problem year in and year out? There's the answer is we're going to come up with a plan so we can say, you know, help us through this one year and then after that we can we're going to have a plan that, you know, we may still have to come once in a while, but it won't be there'll be an overall plan, overarching plan on how not to have to come to the
069county, you know, in these dire times. I guess before I'm going to come to you and ask you for more money, I'm going to try to find money wherever I can. I'm not going to come and talk to you about your lawn if I haven't mowed mine first. Okay? And when I feel like we're rapidly getting to the place where we have stretched and and made every dollar cry to the extent that's possible. So, yeah, that 3% could have easily been four. It could have easily been five. Don't forget that the the requests that were made Can you go one more slide forward? That's new. Go one more slide forward. See at the bottom there? Those are things that we feel very strongly about. The board and myself and my senior staff, we feel like
070these are things that this district needs. I could easily have put that into the request. But at the same time, I I I want to be reasonable with the county as well. But yes, if you're telling us do you have more needs than I put on this piece of paper that you guys are going to get? You bet. And are they emergent critical needs? Yes. Then I maybe some of this is just in the language. I wish you had said that because the way it comes across to us is we have $913,000 request for pre-K classes. Well, indeed, what you're telling me is not necessarily the pre-K. Because that of course has great support among all the commissioners on the pre-K. What you're talking about are a variety of other issues that are related >>
071try to say it a different way. There's a million dollars that I'm using to support pre-K that I could use in other ways if you hadn't taken that money back a year ago. Sorry, I mean, yes, that that I am using money I would spend in schools to support pre-K. And that would be Dr. Barnes, that that wasn't me. I I know. I have a really strong point. I'm trying hard not to throw the rest of the commission under the bus, but >> to say it I tried to say a lot of different ways first. I'm not saying that, but I'm also saying that that I'm asking you for the bare minimum, but I certainly could have asked for more. There were 16 million dollars of capital requests or budget requests that I said we
072can't afford to do. If if there's a a question I didn't sense that I was getting them I didn't think I was putting forth the message that this is something we need. If if you guys if I've been assuming that incorrectly, I'm I apologize. Um we definitely need every bit that we can get. I was trying to be reasonable. And Mr. Zapple, just a couple of points while you were talking, you said, you know, how do we tell the people that we're going to spend this in the schools and not on these other things. And when I talk to people wherever I go, they say, "I don't have kids in school. I don't have grandkids in school. What's it matter to me?" And I tell them, "Look around in your life. Where did you go
073today? Did you get gas? Did you go to the grocery store? Did you go to the bank? All the people working in all the businesses in our community, the members of Natalie's Chamber of Commerce, they are looking to our school district for the kids that are in school right now to staff those businesses. They're going to be waiting on our voters. And we want them to have the best possible education. It starts with pre-K. No. So, no argument with that. >> answer there why you shouldn't buy art with it. Yeah. But I have Words are really important and so I'm constantly tweaking the words in the things we said and I had brought that up last week that the wording of it But the thing to remember, there's two things, two points to remember there.
074Pre-K was funded with one-time money. So, last year we had to find something to He doesn't like me to use the word rob. Pilfer. Loot. He doesn't like me to use those words. But we we took it from this place and the only shot we have this time is to do that too unless you guys just go ahead and fund it. You know, um >> let me re re let me take another swing at this. I was the first one to talk about the support the county has been providing to the schools. Yeah. Every year enrollment has declined, you have increased your funding. Part of that also is is me recognizing us recognizing that as well. Your cost per pupil has gone up every year. So, I'm not saying that you know, I'm not begrudging
075the fact that you guys made that choice. If you want to make the choice to put it back in, I will use it to the benefit of children. I think the the the thing where we kind of break on is do I have to have it or not? Have I cut these schools past what I think is educationally responsible? Yeah. Yeah. Have I put burdens onto these principals and these teachers that I wish I hadn't had to? Yes. I'm trying to make sure that I'm that we are making a decision that is responsible to the city citizenry plus also that I'm we're being good stewards of the money you are giving us before I come asking for more, I'm going to make sure I've done everything I can first. So, it certainly doesn't begrudge you
076the work that you already put in. That's not you know, and I think that we've obviously been sort of vocal about that about support you guys give us. And the second point that I didn't make, um of the 859 students that we're losing, he said 700 of them are low income, which means there'll be less Title One money in the future. Which is not good. But, I think as a county, you guys should say, "Huh, they've lost this many students, and of them, 700 of them are low income. Why? And what are we going to do about it?" Cuz that's what we're seeing. When I talk to, you know, Paul about the students he's losing, it's because they can't afford to live here anymore. So, we have to figure that factor that in to what
077you guys are doing, because at some point you're going to find yourself in a big dirt. If y'all don't think about that. Also, in in the same year that we are floating, and you guys are supporting a bond of this nature, it doesn't also help to say I need more money than is reasonable as well. The 3%, the reason we're talking about 3% is because that's what we anticipate the raise to be from the state. And that will be the cost that it will cost us to keep the same number of employees that we currently have. If it goes to five, we're going to have a problem. Mhm. Yeah. And it could. Uh I I once again in uh crit- Dr. Barnes, you uh been vocal. And I just hope you keep getting the message
078out and from this committee as well. It's going to be a tremendous increase in funding from the county to the schools in this year. We will be looking at, you know, 42% of your budget, whereas the norm in counties uh anywhere from, as you well know, uh upper 20s, 27 to 30%. We're going to be doing 42% here in New Hanover County because you live in New Hanover County. So, we are putting a lot of money into this year's budget to make sure it happens. I almost strikes me as, you know, when is enough? Every time we do move it up as we are with the ADM, and we basically ignore the history of the ADM uh in funding, we're blowing right through that because of the case that you have made and our school
079board has made. So, we've been responding. Yeah. And responding in a very, very large way. And I hope that message gets out as the headline. And I would hope that that's been what I've been communicating. I I feel like with even with the article that came out just this past week, it talked a lot about the support from the county. I think for us as a board and as a superintendent, we need to respond back with making fiscally responsible choices for the future as well. And I think that's part of what they've directed me to look at. That's part of what we'll be doing over the next 18 months to look at. We're really cognizant of the bond. I mean, the bond started right here in this room. You know, and if we hadn't had
080that budget process that we did together, we wouldn't even been in the bond. You remember we voted, "Yeah, we're going to Let's look at this bond." So, we've come so far, and it feels great, but not if we put a tax burden on the citizens for that, and they don't they they say they don't want to pass it. Then we've not wasted that effort, but it'd just be really sad. And there's no there's no option if if it doesn't pass. So, we're very cognizant of that. And also publicly, too, the commission and the board and the superintendent and the county manager have been working consistently together for years now, and the last couple of years for sure, to do what is good for students in our county. Yeah. Now, I will tell you that uh
081I won't apologize because your taxpayer dollars, you pay me to relentlessly pursue what's good for public education. That is my job. And I will not cease doing that. But, I think I we get farther together working together than Oh, without a doubt. And this committee and the work it's been doing, I I think is a great example of that. So. And I'd like to make a comment on that from the private side and what I do for a living. I hear at community meetings, I get yelled at from people, and the discussion has changed from traffic to schools. And a lot of it's in the county, and it's going to keep going. So, that money is like every budget is going to need to increase based on the needs. But, I think if the message
082is positioned right, um send it out to Marshall Shack, they are the loudest, but no. It's I think it would be received well from people that have kids in school and understand. Um and I it needs to happen. It's economic development discussion, too. We need to have good schools to keep attracting businesses, and you know, there's a contingent contingency out there that wants no more development. I get it. But, we want growth. We we want to keep thriving. And schools are a very important part of that. And I would invite anybody that wants to come to a community hearing and listen, they're That's you can hear it. So. And I think us joining together to have this discussion with our state legislature as well, because as I've said as nauseam, I can look you in
083the face. You take my phone calls. I know where you work. And it's a lot easier for me to come to you guys about needs I have because I've got a much better chance of getting it than I do at the state level. Right. As they continue to retreat, that's where the I would hope that the conversation from all of us within the community is to turn around to our local delegation and make it clear that we need to reverse what they've been doing. Cuz all that pressure is coming straight down to your counties, and we're asking our citizens to fill the void where the state is backing away from public education in the K through 12. Ironically, I'm driving to Raleigh today to have that conversation. And we have been that we're talking about
084right now is $2.3 million that they pulled back from us that, you know, supported our teachers. So, you know, And I and please please understand cuz one of your fellow commissioners said, "Well, you know, we didn't do it." And I'm not saying that the county commissioners did it cuz you didn't do it. It was It was the state that pulled that money back because we went over our threshold. So, but that was not, you know, that's not your fault at all. And, you know, and so I want to make sure that that's said. The good state actually said, "You've gone over your threshold and, you know, as a wealthy county, and now you get you don't get." You know, 2.3 is 2.3. All those numbers remember. Thank you. >> Zapple, you should know that behind
085the scenes, our CFO and our superintendent, we are meeting with our state representatives. We we we want to go to Raleigh, taking kids to Raleigh, but in the meantime, we're explaining what we're explaining to you, we're explaining it to them. We're doing it. Yeah. Thanks. So, let's let's explain this one actually. So, I think that pretty much wraps it up. We um yeah, we we skipped this slide, but um it's sim- the same information we've actually been talking about as a group as we we were going through. So, this gives you the numbers. Um so, the operating appro- um appropriation request, that increase of 3% you see there, the 3.1 million um for the pre-K program, we're also asking for 3% for the same thing, to cover the raises for those locally funded pre-K teachers,
086um and then any inflationary type costs. I think it's important to say, just so um it's just clear to the committee, there are no new initiatives in this budget. So, this budget is covering anticipated raises, um salary increases, benefits, um and just inflation. So, contracts going up, software costs going up. Um there are no new initiatives. So, here you can just see the breakdown. Um the capital request is the same as we discussed as a committee, this committee approved, and we carried forward to the board. Um so, no changes in capital from what we had already talked about. So, this is just a one slide that has all the county request information on it, and this is what will um be included as Dr. Barnes had mentioned earlier in the um request that goes May
0875th um to the board for approval. Ashley. Yes. The $99,000 Commissioner Zapple talked about in all his questioning. We're not getting it. So, it is not currently in this budget. We were able to balance this budget without >> Okay. with the same funding related to pre-K as we had this year. So, we were able We were able to um keep 540 kids in the program um and then also use Title One funds that we're anticipating for next year um along with carryover from this year to fund that program. So, we're still using Title One in this current budget. Okay, so that ask is not, then. Correct. No, that ask is not included. It doesn't appear because they're they're pulling it out over from Title One. Got it. Natalie, that's that's why I preface my remarks
088by saying Eric throws you at me. What I was talking about was trying to pull back the curtain a little bit of what is we're considering at the county level. And that $913,000 is a line item that has come as a result of communication between our county manager Dr. Barnes and Ashley of what the needs are. We are really listening hard to what the needs are. But when you look at it in total, that number pops out and say, "Wait a minute. I thought that's already covered." And that's the discussion we just you heard here. So, that's why it doesn't show up on here. That I just that discussion confused me when I didn't see it here. So, thank you for that clarification. >> Yeah, sure. Yeah. I also I just add in here the
089the total request for 26-27. I I don't believe that includes the SRO money or the school nurses or the mental health therapists, all the other things that the county puts in, which is in this case will be approximately 30 additional million dollars to that number you're looking at right here. So, is that because that's not a school's request? It's not built into our operating budget because those are not our employees. The county pays for those. We do have a slide that we published our last board meeting. I think we showed to you guys as well the change in that bus percentage. We add in the mental health agencies, the SROs, and school nurses, and things like that. It really brings up to about $319 million versus 300 a Sorry, $119 million rather than $106 million.
090Sorry. By our calculations, it comes out to $141 million when you put all in from the county. Dollars from the county that are going to the school system or in support of that. SROs, nurses Everything in. That would include also a topic that I've brought up several times here when New Hanover High School front of the school is falling off. We jump in with $9 million to make sure it gets done. Or when Brogden Hall's floor is falling down, we jump in with $3 million to make sure it doesn't fall through. All that has to come from someplace, and we gladly, with a smile on our face, you know, make sure it's there. But when it comes to accounting and getting credit for I admit I'm a little sensitive. I just want to make sure
091the county gets full recognition for all the dollars we put in. Excuse me, all the taxpayer dollars that are put in. And it's substantial. I recognize your job is to focus on the operational pieces here. And that's where here. And another part of our brains we can keep in mind we're putting a lot of money in all the time. Just so we can be maybe consistent with messaging. So, we of course, as you had said we need to show for our board what's in our budget for them to approve. But we do have another slide that in lots of our presentations we have those extra things that are support for the schools, but not necessarily included in our budget. In your number, the $141 million, does that include debt service? Do you recall if it
092included that service? >> So, that might be where we're different because I don't think my my slide included that. So, I'll add that. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Ashley. An important thing, you got to pay your debts. Yeah. And what we're looking at is we're because of the length of time all of this has taken we as a board have not voted on our budget. And if you remember last year, we voted as a committee to move the proposal onto the board. We can't do that as a committee this year because there's things our board still has to decide, some really tough things. That's on that last budget recommendation sheet you're going to see. Um we have to have a majority vote on those things in order to get to the next step. So, to
093look at this slide, a couple of things again, the last time we met officially we were still about $500,000 off in balance. Moving those two pre-K classrooms and adding a student technology fee does balance us down to zero. The three things that the county Sorry, that our board and that our principals feel strongly about are ensuring that we have We have six elementary schools that share an assistant principal. We want them each to have one for security, safety, and academic reasons. Reclassifying teacher assistants who work with special needs students from a 57 to a 59 to improve sort of the the efficacy of that group of employees and then provide an OT and a PT supplement because of the schooling they're required to have their job. Those three things are currently not included in our
094budget. If we receive additional funding whether from the county if the state provides more funding than we expect, if the cap on EC is raised some of these things you may see, these are what are consider our bubble items that if we get revenue above what we're currently have in our budget I will bring back to the board that these are the three things that are priority. Does that make sense? So, these are the three things that we feel like are of critical importance. I cannot find them in the budget right now. But if we have any additional revenue from the county or from anywhere else, that will be our first three places we'll lean into. So, could I extrapolate that to say that these items not included in the recommendation, the three assistant principals
095that we really need, the EC TAs to get the little bump in their grade, and the OT and PT supplement, if we had that $916,000 for pre-K then I know it can't come from Title One, but would that help you rearrange things to where we might get end up with some of that? At the state level I will tell you that every district that I talk to is in a challenging, difficult space. I talked to a superintendent that said that they had to go to their county commissioner and said, "We need $10 million by Friday or we're going to have to fire 100 people." That's how tight it is, guys. There are five districts that started this school year with a negative fund balance. They started this school year in the hole. I talked to
096a superintendent Hurricane Helene happened when in '24. He is the fifth superintendent they've had since Hurricane Helene. I'm hoping that these levels of crisis at large districts across the state may move the legislature in the right direction. I will tell you the thing that's gained the most sort of noise is about increasing the cap on special needs students. So, we may get more money for special needs students next year if they raise the the threshold or the ceiling. The EC TA and OT PT can probably come from that money. APs, it's not fair. It's not That's not ethical to use that money for that. But I would say if we had additional EC money, those things would happen, and I would push more staff out to schools to have our students have better support. If
097we see more money from the county those three things I will never just randomly spend money. I will bring back to the board my proposal. Ms. Sutton and I will talk with our principals. We'll talk with our senior staff and bring forth where we would use that funding. If you guys increase our funding, I will be ensured that that credit goes where it's due. Because the financial impact of each of these three things left out? >> Yep. What is it? >> [laughter] >> Um okay, I'm going to give it a shot. The three assistant principals is about $370,000. Uh no. $207,000. Let's let Ashley tell us. >> Let's. >> [laughter] >> She's calculating. >> I see. It's about 500 grand for all three of them. 560. But I'll let her Yep, that's right. 534,000 for
098all three of them. Look, I swung back around at it. That was good. That's your total for the assistant principals, the reclassification, and the OT and PT. Did you want it broken down? For all three items, it's 534? Correct. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's only a half million dollars for those three things. But we don't have it. And if the county leaned back in whatever was left over from those things would be pushed out to Title One schools to support the losses that they've experienced. Which would thereby support the same number of pre-K slots we have now. Dr. Barnes, it would be helpful if that was broken out just like you've broken it out here as opposed to again, I think some of the hesitation, certainly for me who is is no bigger supporter of yourself
099and pre-K and the school system. It just caught my eye and it has caused multiple conversations with our staff saying, "What What are they trying to say here? You know, they just want a an extra $913,000 because you know, and they put the name pre-K on it so that guys like me will go, 'Yes, we're going to get the pre-K.'" So, having this conversation is really uh important, but I think these three items here kind of broken out in you know, this is what we need the extra money for beyond the 3% that we're going to give you. It allows me to make a a stronger case. Uh you know, I now am armed with a lot more information, and I feel a whole lot better about that additional money that's wrapped up in the
100913 million because I thousand because you've educated me. I think that I think that I point out that these are all recurring expenses. Correct. Yeah. And Commissioner Zapple? They're not one-times. Where the Where the money comes from and What was the economic impact of the $913,000 to the request and moving it from 3 to 4%? Yeah. Commissioner Zapple, would it be helpful if we cuz we had this last Friday with the dollar in it for each one? Would it be helpful to you to have this redone and sent to you with the literally the dollars for each line? I think >> I know that from separate conversations, especially with the PT and OT, occupational therapists and physical therapists, they they actually reach out to me and other commissioners, and I've taken multiple meetings, and I
101was delighted to see that in there. They've been I'll say overlooked, but there's not been money there in the past to do anything with them. So, But that's not included in our budget. The OT and PT supplemental is on this list of three. Of not included. Read the heading. Not included. >> Yeah, not included. Sorry, I in reference to the any extra money, that $913,000. You know, I Yes, it would be helpful to have it. I think I have enough information to make the case at this point, but it I can always use a breakdown dollar amount. So, thanks, Pat. Appreciate it. We can send that to you by email. And I think that the reason that this wasn't put in our budget was because we're trying to be fiscally responsible with what we're asking
102the county for and the burden we're putting on our citizenry. Yep. These things and and I think they are critically important. I'm saying that right now out loud. Hello, you at home. But those are wants. Those are things that are not currently in our budget now that we want. Because we think our staff deserves it. But the question was whether or not that county burden of 3% should be 4%, and I wasn't willing to I mean, at the same time you're telling me we've invested more and more every year. It's a balance, folks, that we had to do. So, Dr. Barnes, thanks to your you know, participation in the uh Principal for a Day program, I had an opportunity to go to Pine Valley and and be a part of that. So, when I look
103at here at three assistant principals, I saw firsthand the need, the absolute necessity of having an assistant principal. Because when I showed up, the principal wasn't there for legitimate reasons. Mhm. So, I you know, and the but the assistant principal was, and having the information, high-level information that she had, I was able to have a wonderfully productive day and learn a lot. Now, I know an assistant principal job goes way beyond talking to a guy in a suit. So, but it you know, it made me open my eyes to the importance, and I asked her several times while I was there, "What What would happen here if you weren't here?" And all of a sudden, the position of the person in the front desk's role just gets elevated way beyond what they they should be
104doing and certainly what they're paid for. We need three assistant principals. My guess is you once again have been conservative. There's probably a lot more assistant principals that we need. So, I look at this list here, and I don't see it as wants. I see I see it as needs. That's all. So, Mr. Zapple or Commissioner Zapple, I was at uh Carolina Beach School, and because there was no assistant principal, she couldn't come to that really incredible meeting Chamber put on in here for the afternoon to where you learned so much about what was going on district-wide versus just your school. And so, it is something that we hold dear, but we're trying to we're not trying to just beg and beg and beg because we know we've got that bond out there. Um what's
105next? Yep. Um We are looking at our trip possibly Trying to find it. Possibly being the 19th, which is a Wednesday because we are told that the General Assembly is under this current administration is pretty much there Tuesday to Thursday. Thursday morning, they're heading out of town. So, there isn't any point in us going on a Thursday cuz we wouldn't see who we wanted to see, and we have some lofty goals. We'd like very much to speak to the education chairs this time this time. Um and we'll be taking students. So, we're looking at the 19th, and then that is in May. So, I'm thinking that we'll skip the May meeting and the June meeting and come back in July if that's all right with everyone. I don't want to overtax you. I know everyone
106has a busy schedule. Um Madam Chair, might I might I recommend that folks who make that trip have an after-action meeting to kind of summarize Oh, good point. >> from the That way, we're not meeting for 2 months. I want it to remain fresh and at least memorialized on paper so that we can present it to the committee. I think that's a good point. We didn't do that last year just because of the way things went. Oh, that's true. We did. But we could do an act after-action committee report at the board meeting. So, that's that's Yeah. Should we try to get a permit for the quartet? Oh, I'm sorry, the 20th. It's just right there. 20th. 19th, no, Dr. Barnes can't go. 20th. Wednesday the 20th. I know. No, we're not We're not fooling
107with that, E-Bud. You're not getting out of it. We all want it. I I sensed there would have been an upgrade to the activity bus. >> To the what? I sensed there would have been upgrades made to the activity buses if you went with us last time. Driving separately. I'll be on the bus. I It's dead. Oh, that was rough. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, it was like I I rode a train to um Oh, for heaven's sake. Our children ride on those buses, people. I I rode a I rode a train to Washington with a delegation from here, and all this, you know, on the train like this, I hurt for weeks afterwards. So, no. Um So, if you guys want to look at your calendar for August. Right? Am I right, Jenny? July. Right.
108So, we'd meet again in July. So, while you've got calendars with now a whole lot in them, I'd like to get on your radar, especially Well, kind of have a captive audience with the staff. But um you business people and county people um in July could Could y'all do a Wednesday? I can't remember what We've We've been doing Thursdays for the first couple of years, but we could uh Natalie can't do Wednesdays. Is that right? Do that Thursday the 16th? I think there was a reason. There might be a conflict in this space. Hey, that was the chair of the board that said that. What do you Y'all look at the 16th. Could you do it if we could move them? Ah, good. Cuz that's going to be the meeting where we come back and
109we push the lever forward. Cuz it's July, and we've passed the date of when they're presenting, right? Rebecca. So, we can really really dig in to to to the to the bond. What What do you mean "dig in"? Well, dig into what we're going to do, what our parts are, if any. Mostly of part. But talk about the next steps with the bond. I mean we know we have to wait until November, but we can still be doing our discussions and our and our pre-planning. I think Natalie's part needs to be moving before then. Well, I mean our parts our parts are starting to move. I think that Where'd that go? clarification your parts can only be education. Yes. Rob and Don't you mean I see. Don. Don, thank you. You Rob and Don are
110going to be the most critical connection to the to the advocacy campaign. Mhm. Right? And and other than that there's got to be almost a Chinese wall between us. Yeah. >> I don't think this committee talks campaign at all. I don't think that's appropriate. Okay, but we talk education, don't we? Well, yes. Yes, yes. I just don't think the campaign should be on the agenda for this committee. I just don't I think that's that gets too wishy. Okay. >> there's too much opportunity for inappropriate work of this committee on an advocacy campaign. Okay. So, certainly you can put me on the agenda for a brief update. Okay. >> Certainly, but this committee should not be talking about the advocacy campaign. From a legal perspective. Is there a lawyer in the room? Um I don't No,
111but that that that drives with everything we've been told. But but but Rob and and Don and probably others will be needed to help make sure we have access to information that we need. Certainly school board members will be accessed and Anita, that's right. Um will be will be you know will be needed to speak in various places and spaces um for the last 6 months between now and and November and all that, but um but this committee that should not be a task of this committee. That I mean that would be very inappropriate. From a I I would more of the education part, not the advocacy part. >> I beg your pardon? I meant the education part, not the advocacy part. Well, if there's work if there's discussions to be had about the bonds
112from Rob's perspective, then great, but I don't I don't know I don't know about that part before they're passed. Is there anything to talk about before they're passed? I don't know. I kind of feel like it would be nice to have a share of any more. Right. Right. The one addition would be this rather request for some more insight into the processes and timeline. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, that the public is really you know questions are being generated out there and the the sooner we can educate them on the possible answers to their questions, the better off we are. My my rule was always never leave the reader with a question. So, whenever we find questions we like to answer them because it keeps them happier. And they're voters. I I wonder if we publish exactly
113a timeline of when's Dangerous. No. Because then that could influence the people whether they vote or not. That's right. Okay, so good. No, I wasn't interested in a timeline. Yeah. Well, like I said, I you know I'm I'm a visual person and I I know what happens up until that point, but you know, I know contracts have to be done, permits have to be done, all this stuff has to be done and just to try and organize it in some kind of a timeline in my head of how and how how long does permitting take? How long >> of that can be done before November. No, I know. I know. I know. It's just understanding the process. You understand it. She understands it. Um and others that have done it understand it. But >> [clears
114throat] >> I will I I will I will submit that if we are talking about too much detail between now and election day, we are we will put the vote in jeopardy. Okay. I just I just believe that um um that so much can change between today and when when Rob moves forward getting permits and and finalizing plans and we need to stay high level so that we don't tell the public something that then changes drastically by the time we get done. And this just we just we you guys let we let's get past June 4th when it's or yeah, June 1st all official and and we get to run on our side and we will reach back out and board members will be asked to engage as you need to because this this is
115your request of the county commission. County commissioners will be asked also to engage publicly, but staffs need to not. They need to not be engaged in in the advocacy side of it, only in providing information for education and and the and and if we put try to try to answer too many questions, we may make may be perceived as making commitments that can't be met and that's dangerous. That makes sense. I don't think we should talk about detail of any of the bond pack bond packages any more than we have. I think we've got great detail with regard to what you've asked the commission to support in a bond package. Great awesome detail that we can convince the public is important and beyond that, I think we're putting ourselves at danger at making promises we
116might not be able to keep. And you've also led this work before in other places. So, we are going to I for one am going to just do whatever Natalie tells me for the next 6 months. >> Yep, you've learned. I've been married 30 years. I know how this works. No, I I just I think if we're not careful and we spend a lot of time thinking about that part here, we we we jeopardize ourselves in crossing a line with our staff that we're not supposed to cross, right? There's a there is a Chinese wall between what they can and can't do related to advocacy both county and school staff and then and then again, you know, we've got enough. And we we've got enough to make the case and the public believes it's time
117to make investments and so let's get past November and then let's talk about all those details. Then that's when that when Rob and people like Libby and can guide us better at all of the detailed steps we need and how much time it's going to take and and we'll need Bonnie back in here to help us with that stuff too cuz he's very experienced as well in all the things. Well, whatever. >> [laughter] >> And we do have from November to February before the LGC would approve or not approve or have questions or things that had to be solved. So, that means y'all had winter off last time. That means you don't get winter off this time. You get some summer off. I like having summer off anyway. I'm working. I won't have summer off.
118We'll be running a campaign. Y'all take summer off from this perspective. All right, so did we agree on a date in July? >> [laughter] >> So, July 16th will be our next meeting. Um do y'all like the 10:00 or do you did you prefer the old 12:30? Especially people coming for lunch. How does that work for y'all? I got to if speaking of lunch, I got to go. Sorry. Yeah. I can do whatever that that is. Sorry. I'm wide open now. Mhm. Yeah. So, do we want to go back to our 12:30 time or is 10:00 better? They're early. Okay. Not kicking them out, moving them somewhere. Okay, so we'll go 12:30. Going once? Going twice? 12:30 on that Thursday. So, if there is nothing else, we will Yes. Lisa, on the the special the
119bond notice that is published, it does not have the the ballot question or the calendar. Or is that already in Which one of those doesn't? The August 27th or the The August 27th and 28th. It does not have the first statute that goes with that. Is that something that has to be put in that It just has to have the date of the referendum, the maximum dollar amount, the purpose and the last date of registration for voters. Okay. So, just wanted to clarify that cuz I've I looked up the statute all of them. Mr. Hennet, did that answer your question? Mr. Hennet, did that answer your question? Sorry. Okay. We got trouble. Yeah, I'm cool. >> [laughter] >> I'm out. All right, would someone like to move that we adjourn? I'll say so moved. All
120right, we are adjourned. All right. You did?