NHCS Board of Ed. Budget Work Session | March 12, 2026

001our budget work session to order. Uh, thank you all for being here and I think we have a couple more in route but appreciate that. Uh would you please call the roll for >> present. >> Melissa Mason >> here. >> Josie Barnhard. >> Pat Bradford >> I am here. >> Judy Justice. >> Tim Merrick. >> David Perry >> here. >> All right. So we do have a quorum. I will uh testify. We have four. So appreciate that. And again I did speak to a couple that are on their way. So hopefully we'll have more than a quarter soon. >> Next order of business is to approve the agenda. Do I hear a motion? >> Second. >> Discussion. >> Hearing none. All in favor of approving agenda by saying I. >> I. 4 Z. Next we'll

002do the pledge of allegiance. Miss Mason, would you lead that, please? >> Absolutely. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Look at that. We had the pledge and an invocation all in one. That was great. >> Okay. Did you get that? That was funny. That was funny. Good. I like that. All right. >> Thank you, Jesus. We're gonna have a good day. >> We're good day. Okay. At this point, we will go on to our local budget and we will turn it over to Miss Sutton. Miss Sutton, take us down the >> hand out first. Ma'am, >> I'm sorry. >> She I'm going to let her tell us that. >> Yes.

003So, um I've provided a bound document for you. It's um actually the spiral published. Yes. So this is our annual financial report. So you received a draft copy if you remember um when our auditors presented um and he went through that document. It was preliminary because the compliance supplements for the federal programs had not been completed yet and so that's what we were waiting on. Those have been completed. Um there were no changes from what was review at that time. However, I did want you to have a bound document like we've given out in the past. So, that's just um a cleaner copy um as far as being bound for you and everything. So, we're not going to go over that today, but I just wanted you to have that for your records. Um you

004have a binder that has the PowerPoint included. Um it's behind the first tab. And so, I'm going to go through that PowerPoint today um for us to discuss and be able to ask questions. And we will be focusing today on our local budget. So looking at local revenue and expenditures. And so on the second slide, you'll see our local revenue changes um as we're building the budget for next year. Um couple of things that we wanted to make sure that we talked through um and shared with the board is just remembering that in the current year budget we had onetime revenue that we used to balance the budget. Um it totaled about one I'm sorry $2.2 million. Um and it was that FEMA reimbursement that we received related to Hurricane Florence um towards the end

005of the year. It's about 466,000. And then we also had that sale of 13 acres at Johnson PreK Center and that was about 1.7 1.6 million um to get to that total 2.2 million of onetime revenue. We have reviewed our fines and forfeitures over the past four years looking at that revenue and of course excluding the red light camera revenue that we no longer receive. Um, and we do feel comfortable budgeting another 554,000 for fines and forfeitures. Um, believing that that should come in next year. And then the last bullet you see on this slide is for the county local county appropriation. Um we are um including in this document for conversation a 2.33% increase from the county commissioners. Um and that's for consumer price index. You know just the increase in the cost of

006doing business. Um so that would equal 2.4 million increase from the county commissioners. Um looking the current year um just the local county appropriation from the county commissioners is 103 million. So that um 1.4 would be in addition to that amount we received this year. And next we wanted to talk about >> Yes, sorry. >> Um, of the uh county local appropriations, is that delegated in any particular manner or is this reinop? >> I'm sorry, could you repeat that? >> Your is the increase of $2.4 $4 million in the county local appropriation. Is does that have particular earmarks set uh that are that that constrain it or is that money that we have available to appropriate? >> It would be flex it would be flexible there. There um wouldn't be certain requirements that we have

007to spend on that. it would be flexible and we will go through some expenditures in the next couple of slides and that's what um we would be using that additional funding for based on what the board approves. >> Thank you last week about the North Carolina auditor planning audits of the lottery, the bonds and the UNCC system. So we may some movement in in lottery. We may see some effect in bond by him doing that. Um his office is apparently really cutting edge and so it's gonna be interesting to see if we can get some answers to our questions on lottery that we've had for so long. So if y'all didn't see that, it's in the Carolina Journal from this last couple of days. >> And I'm actually meeting with the state auditor next week.

008didn't. >> All right. So, next, let's talk about some local mandated budget increases. Um, and when I'm talking about these mandated increases, it it's um assuming that there's going to be a state raise. So, we would always um give our local employees the same raise that we give our state employees. And so looking at the raises that we've had over the past five years, the average has been about a 3% raise. And so we are looking to budget that again for this upcoming year um just to make sure that our local employees are paid the same as state employees. And so the $2.6 million for local employee salaries that you see here, that includes a 3% raise. It also includes a retirement rate increase of 1% and insurance or health insurance um employer matching increase

009of about 5%. >> Justice. >> Yes. >> Yeah. the um 1% increase is that is that's for the supplement for our local people that we hire as opposed to the state workers who are going to get it out of that. Is that what you're saying? >> So I'm going to repeat to make sure we're on the same page. Um so I'm estimating what the state's going to do based on historical information that just and then we would do the same as the state. So if the state comes in less, we would do what the state does or if they come in more same. So our local employees would get the same adjustments as state employees. >> You said supplements, not supplements, they're base. >> This is this is base salary. The 3% increases for the

010base salary. That's correct. >> That's right. BA that's based on um the teacher receiving a 3% raise. >> I I want to be caution of the word using the word mandate. >> Oh, okay. >> The the state has not authorized a budget at all. >> We are assuming and planning that they should and will. The difficult thing about this budget is that if we don't plan for it and they do it then we have to scramble to find this amount of money. So we are going to build the assumption that over the last five years the average raise has been 3%. So we are going to build for a 3% raise for all employees. Last year they did not do that. This year they may or they may not. By that same token, if they

011come in with a number higher than 3%, we would then have to rescale to match that as well. Does that make sense? >> Yep. >> But I don't want to use the word mandated because the state is the one that authorizes that budget and those increases, not us. Is that fair to say? >> That's correct. Once they pass a budget though, we have to do we would have to give that raise to those state employees. >> Correct. I thought and you know help me understand that the state did do a mini budget that was supposed to cover some of these things. >> It did not cover raises. The only thing it covered was a step increase for teachers only. >> Got it. Not a not a yearly increase but if you are on that step

012which is confusing for a lot of people. >> The difficulty with that is there is a plateau in the teacher salary schedule. >> Oh yeah. >> From year 15 to 25. >> 15 to 25. >> Not year but step. Right. >> Yeah. Arguably the same. >> Similarly, >> 15 to 25. >> Um I just want to get um the if you could clear something up as far as our local employees go, the ones that we hire and ones that we have to we're calculating this local employee salary bump too. Um, does the the ones that are are teachers and other uh stuff that are paid for by the state? and then we have a local supplement on top of that. Does the two does the 2% include is on top of the supplement? Is that

013only the state? Does the does the county match that 2%? Uh also, you know, in [clears throat] relation to I mean all of our employees are point are important to us equally no matter what which bucket of money we're taking them from, you know. Um is this an equivalent overall pay raise for them? Is it more? Is it less just based on which bucket we take it out of? >> So we we budget so that it would be the same. So we we build our budget so it doesn't matter the pot of money your your salary is coming out of, you're going to get the same raises and benefits as the others that are paid out of state. Does that make sense? >> Basically, it's the same. If you're a if I'm a local paid

014person or a state paid person, we have to match that. That's why this money is going to be allotted. >> We earmark this money. So the raise is the same for all employees, >> right? >> So I mean I guess say we have one employee who gets I mean this is just I'm just taking numbers off the top of my head here. This is just to make it easy. I know this is not what say one teacher is making $50,000 and then they get the local supplement and then uh and now we're giving them a raise 2% they get how much would the local supplement be on $50,000 >> the the 3% is does not impact the local supplement. The supplement is in a separate schedule. >> The raise is based on on your base

015salary. The supplement stays the same. >> So are these folks here local local the local ones are we giving them an equivalent salary based overall >> on whether they're as as the state would have paid them had we paid paid them out of that bucket. >> Regardless of what what bucket you get paid out of, your salary is the same. is still the base salary. It's >> Yeah, everyone gets paid the same. >> But this the people but the people who are uh are they getting are our local employees paid out of the local bud uh pot of money, are they getting the equivalent of get uh even though they're not getting the supplement, are they getting the supplement? >> The whole county every Yeah. So no matter what bucket they come out of, they

016get >> everyone gets paid the same. >> Okay, that's all I wanted to know. >> Is it fair to say that employees may not even know whether or not they are state or or >> and some are split. Some get paid some but it's not fair for you to be impacted either positively or negatively by which budget you get paid out of. So everyone is the salary schedule is the same for everyone. >> I I completely agree. Thank you for clarifying that. >> Is I guess you probably cannot answer this at all, Dr. But is there any way that anybody has any idea when they are going to do our budget? Will it release the budget the budget? Is there anything you >> Well, I'm not the superintendent of the whole state, so I don't

017have really control over that. >> Um I do know that I think my concern is is that it's already March. >> Yeah. >> So when the legislature meets, I'm not even sure if they're not just going to begin focusing on next year's budget. >> Okay. Is that >> That would be my guess. >> Yeah. This is sad. >> I did check though. We're not allowed to just say we're not going to do one. We do have to do one. [laughter] >> That would be interesting if everybody calls the state program. That would >> Well, but it's not. >> We have to look in the face of our employees >> and we have to build a budget that that pays them and and funds their pension and those kinds of things. I mean, it's just too

018important for us not to >> because we can't >> Well, what we're doing is making sure that which whichever way the state goes that we've put money aside to make sure that we can afford those raises for people. But we do not get to determine that decision. That is a state decision. And to forestall your question, we do not have the funding and no no district does to just give a raise on our own because the bulk of our employees are paid from state and federal. So if the state didn't pass a budget, we would not be able to say we're just going to give one anyway because then we would have to pay 100% of everybody rather than just our local portion. And if our local portion alone is 22 2.5 million, you're looking

019at 10 12 50 million if we tried to just do it randomly without the states backing. Is that make does that is that an accurate statement too? >> Yes. >> Can you refresh our memory because we call that supplement? >> What percentage do we give it? >> So we don't do a percent, we do a flat rate and it ranges. So experience the top of the bottom of the scale is 7,000 a year and the hard to fill supplement the top of that scale is 12,000. So it's within that range and that's a good kind of leadin because this local employee salary amount you see also includes employees that are stepping up on that local supplement scale because we have that supplement scale in tiers. So like every five years you'll get an increase in

020your local supplement. So, we've also included that local supplement increase in that dollar amount as well. >> And you may have said this already today, um, but I just like to reiterate it if you have, and if not, just bring it up. Um, you have to budget for their salaries regardless of what the state is doing. There was some comment in the last couple of weeks somewhere that said, you know, it's not happening, but you of course have to budget and you will get from the state what we got the previous year. Am I correct? So, we get whatever is on the books now while they do this. >> Let's call it budget rodeo that they're doing. Um, am I correct? >> So, >> in other words, until they pass a budget, we're at the

021rate that they we were getting the previous year. Is that correct? You're talking about the state revenue amount. >> No, she's asking whether or not if the board doesn't pass a budget, will we still see the raise? If the state doesn't pass, correct? >> Right. So, the state did pass a mini budget and it included a a raise um a step increase, which is a raise for employees. Um the average raise for the um certified staff was 3%. Of course, it varies. I mean, you might have one um employee that gets a 7% raise and someone [clears throat] else doesn't get a raise at all, depending on where they fall on the salary scale. So, that has already happened this year. We employees were already getting that raise and we wouldn't So, all that's been

022taken care of. So, I don't know if that's answering your question or not. >> Well, I'm thinking if I'm an employee, >> the only way I know I got a raise is it shows up in my account, right? I mean, because this is too hard to figure out. Does that make sense? I mean, I don't think the teachers and the other, you know, the teachers know where their raises come from. Somebody said that earlier, or when the increases kick in, if they kick in, if they're one of the the ones that gets the exception increase or doesn't. >> We communicate with the employees. >> We do. We know. >> We do. And and there's a salary scale that's on our website and on the state website. So, if you know you have 15 years of

023experience, you can go to that scale, your salary scale, and see what your new um salary should be. >> That's nice. >> And that's posted. I mean, that's revised and published every year. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And you can go into self-service as well as an employee and look at your total compensation package, >> which shows you the amount of money that the district also invests in you as an employee, right? And that includes your retirement, your hospitalization charges and those things as well. >> The retirement system has not had in a long time. >> However, however, we are now putting in 25% of every employees salary in the district into their pension fund. >> Well, that's I'm talking about >> Well, some people are still taking it, you know. >> [laughter] >> Some

024people are real retired. >> Okay. So, and then the last item we hear have here is our charter school payments. And so, as we talked about on this previous slide, if our net revenue increases 800,000 charter schools get their proportionate share of revenue increases. And so, that's where the 64,000 you're you're seeing here for an increase in those payments. >> And again, just to We do have the local media here. You know, our charter schools, the numbers are pretty much same. >> Yes. Yeah, that's correct. >> Um, >> and we do have that um those um reports. >> Yes. >> I know there's been a question of is that accurate, but the state has to report on private school and homeschool enrollment and we obviously pay the charter school numbers as they go out. So

025that's where we've gotten the numbers of charter, private, and homeschooling. And our reports have shown over the last three years that those numbers have not moved. >> Justice. >> No, I actually somebody answered it while I put it up. >> In addition, Miss Sutton did run a report on the enrollment in Pender and Brunswick over the last five years as well. I was incorrect. Pender has been has not been gaining students. Brunswick has, >> but a recent report I found out yesterday shows that there are 115 districts in the state, 100 county school systems and 15 state I mean um city school systems. A hundred of them have lost enrollment. >> Wow. >> There are only 15 districts in the state that have increased enrollment last year. >> It's not just North Carolina. No, no,

026but it is specific with North Carolina that we are not even seeing the decrease that some other districts are seeing as well. >> Um, I'm gonna hold my finger on that pin there about charter, but is there a cluster of the 15? Are they in certain like are they in the middle part of the state or the western part of the state, eastern part of state? Is there any cluster? >> Sort of. You are seeing clusters around large metric metropolitan areas. >> Union County has increased Brunswick has increased, Johnston County has increased, >> and you're seeing those being next door to Wake, Charlotte, US. That sort of scenario is what you're seeing. >> All right. So, my question about charter, I don't think the average person understands that the charter school money flows through the

027school district. They don't think of charter schools as being public schools. They don't think of them as being government schools. And yet, we there's no oversight for them. So just that 64038 that's an ADM per student. Explain that so that we all hear it at the same time. >> Sure. So um whenever we're determining the amount of money that's required to go to charter schools, we have to look at the total revenue that we receive. We actually pay charter schools monthly. So we look at the total revenue, local revenue we receive. So it's fines and forertures and it's county appropriation. Um, so for that month, whatever that total revenue is, um, we give the charter schools their proportionate share, meaning we add up all the charter school enrollment for the month and New Hover County

028Schools enrollment for the month, and we calculate their percent of the total student enrollment for the month. And then that's how we determine the payments for each charter school. [cough and clears throat] >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, the total um expenditures that we have listed here um is 2,627,000 um for these what we're considering mandatory increases looking at raises and benefits and things as we talk about. Next, we wanted to share um some expenditure decreases that we see going into next year. And this is all related to um decrease in student enrollment. So as you know we've talked about um our student enrollment number is going down um next year I think 839 students. Um and so with that enrollment decrease, we know that our state allocations are going to decrease as

029well because um most of our state revenue is based on student enrollment. And so we are providing this chart um to show on the state side we're going to have reductions of these 44 types of positions. Um and the reason it's actually reduces expenses on the local slide local side is because we pay the local supplement for all of these positions. And so the amount that you see is the local supplement related. For example, 39 classroom teacher reduction would save the local supplement for those 39 teachers, which would put back available in our budget $458,000. So, um, we just went through and did that calculation for each of those positions. Um and here we will be able to see a decrease in expenditures of 500 and we'll say 579,000 um that we can use for

030other things. And before we go into the different budget requests, I wanted to kind of stop here and do a summary to see where we are. So, as we talked about revenue increases of 800,000 um raises benefit those mandatory increases we talked about um 200 2.6 million and then the supplements that will be able to um budget differently next year 578,000. So, right now our gap in funding is two 1.2 2 million when you're looking at the revenues and the expenses so far. Okay. Any questions before we go? All right. So, now um we wanted to go through budget requests and and I meant to write down the number. The budget requests were much larger um than what we're going over here with you today. Um I meant to write down the total request number.

031>> It was 16 million. >> Okay. Thank you. I I knew Dr. Barnes would remember. he has a great memory. Um, so we've narrowed that down to the things we're going to show you here. Um, and some of these are increases and some are decreases, but the superintendent's office has um is providing a net reduction of 140,000. And that that reduction is going to be um related to a 10% reduction in the superintendent budget and then a 10% reduction in all central office supply budgets. Finance and business services division is um providing a net reduction of 67,500 and this is through the elimination of a central office position. That seems low. >> Is this support for finance and business? This wouldn't be any kind of computer help desk or is it? >> So, um I

032will give you a little bit more detail on that because I think it will be helpful. So um it's the elimination of uh support associate six position but we are also using um some of the savings from that reduction to reclassify purchasing agent position and a budget supervisor position um to align them um with the other positions within our department at that same level. we found some inconsistencies um within the structure, the pay structure and the division. And so this will correct that and so that's why it's netting those three things together and that's why it's 67,500. But that was a really good question because that's awfully low for you know salary plus benefits plus >> that's exactly right. That's exactly right. technology and digital learning um request summary. The net request is $666,648 and

033this is for increases related contracted services. Um and then also software rate increases as you we have listed here. Are there any questions about >> We didn't this we had a partial informal budget workshop uh that couple of us went to uh we split it up um three um the uh in the subject of and I don't know if we've got numbers for this is if if we left in place um if we left in place any kind of you know technology for that actually was part of um career development. Uh but we placed the one-on-one device one device per student kind of model with uh in using the this technology and went to textbooks instead. Would that give us any cost savings as to the answer to that question? I don't know if if

034we're prepared to have that conversation yet. I think we need to get through all of this other stuff as well before we talk about potential solutions. So, I wasn't really ready to talk about ways we can cut yet until we kind of put the whole picture out there. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just going to speak to the fact I know we've had lots of discussions of how can we continue to utilize technology but also make it cost effective. And so part of the discussion in this I I know it's an increase of $666,000, but having the insurance would allow us to replace coverage so we could still have that specifically in the high school realm. And we have, it's my understanding, and this is why I just want to get clarity of this,

035we have decreased the amount of technology in our middle and elementary schools and more of a classroom like rotational thing so that we can save money. Is that a correct understanding? >> We have not done that yet. Right now we are still one to one in our middle school. >> Okay. >> And our elementary schools with the rate in which they're probably dying. They have really old ones. They probably aren't one to one but they're close. >> So um but the meeting that we had was talking about moving forward. >> Okay. But this the item one is specifically for the high school devices. >> Oh, sorry. insurance. >> Oh, no. And just the the one question about the insurance because I I'm glad you brought that up. I'm sorry. Um the that will it's a

036pretty so the public knows too. I think I asked this before. Uh you know, I think a lot of the public has probably had their insurance on their phones and then found out that oh it doesn't cover this or that or the other thing. This insurance would cover most anything even a drop or you know it's pretty substantial insurance. Is that correct? >> Yes, that is correct. >> Okay, good. So if she >> I did that um annual contract is around $100,000. it might be $102 um,000 and it's for um a library of ondemand digital access for all staff in the district um for u continuous professional development around behavior needs >> that's not justice >> okay thank you for I I actually had put my head down hand but you know what that was

037an excellent example that you brought this morning. Um, how because you do things digitally just digitally in the morning. Um, everybody can share it. You don't have to worry about dropping it or getting beat up passed on from one generation of reason I brought that up is why isn't I that's the first I've heard somebody else mentioned it. You had you had a workshop that involved textbooks. What? I'm I'm a little confused about why textbooks are even in the mix. Okay. 2026 because >> textbooks just aren't practical. If you ever worked with textbooks, I love the digital age. It's wonderful to have access. You can immediately have great things to share. Don't have to worry about kids dropping their toilet. A lot of things kids have done over the years. I think if we can

038refer you guys to the technology state sustainability plan, it does talk about a way to make our technology renewable and affordable. >> And I think some of the answers to some of these questions may be embedded in that document. >> And just to clarify for Miss Justice, I was not we didn't have any special meeting the day we met with our principles. Uh I believe it was the three of us met afterwards with some people and that that topic came up. >> Oh, okay. I I thought so. Oh, thank you. >> So, this is an a general discussion. >> Thank you. Um, I have heard this from a good number of parents uh for a while and that the concern that you know all this technology is costing us so much money. And while I

039appreciate that, having dug into it a little bit and asking those questions, it turns out that textbooks are really expensive, too. And that we're not saving money uh by by buying textbooks. And we are spending roughly, from what I've heard, about the same amount of money for the technology as for the textbooks. They're instantly upgradable. And we're teaching kids how to use technology, which they're going to have to have. So, I think the public needs to hear that. All right. Next we have student services division. Um the net requested amounts 283,000. Um and this is to cover a children um exceptional children classified position. Um also to um reclass the ectas. Um, currently they're a grade 67 and this would increase them to a grade 59. Um, which is about a 2% pay increase for

040them. Um, this is just a movement on that s to a different salary scale. um also um provide the to op I'm sorry occupational therapist and the physical therapist an annual um heartfield supplement and going forward give them the same raise that teachers receive currently they receive the classified raise >> I would just like to say number two I have seen some DCA go through unfortunate work but very um laborious and concerning position that they have to do with some of the students and you know very highly right And in case um anyone's not aware, currently they get the same pay as a regular elementary school TA, just for those that may not be aware of that. >> I do want to mention that I'm very happy that we're able to give our occupational therapists

041and physical therapists that same hard to fill supplement. I mean, they the way they're they're classif they're classified rather than certified. I mean, a physical therapist is a doctor. So, it's kind of amazing to me that they would be on a classified scale. So, I'm grateful that we find a way to give them something to acknowledge their educational experience and their knowhow. Um because we need them. We don't want to do we don't want to keep, you know, having to contract out where it gets very expensive. So we be we must retain the therapists that we have on staff. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I like seeing these two, number two and three, because when you're talking about keeping our staff, those hard to fill positions if we can do a little change. I do

042want to um add on number three. I'm glad to see this hard to fill supplement. But just for clarity purposes, we are not changing them over to a teacher pay scale because they would actually receive less money than what they currently do. were just adding us a stipen for the OT and PT. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. >> If we had put there OT's and PTS on a separate classified schedule, they're on a grade 78. If we had moved them over to the teacher pay scale, even with the local supplements and those kind of um additions onto the supplement, they would make less money except for three of them. So maintaining their 78 grade pay scale and adding a addition to them is what what one of the proposals we

043have for you guys. So you're right if they were on the teacher scale it would not benefit them by and large. No. Next we have operations and planning division. Here you can see the request is 296,000 and it includes uh stipens for um some of our current employees to provide school bus training um to help recruit, certify, retain our bus drivers and to help with the bottleneck that we seem to be experiencing with DMV. Um it would be this stifle would be provided to four employees. It would be $10,000 annually for those four employees. Um, also an increase for annual for our contracts where we've just seen prices go up due to inflation. Um, an increase to cover veterans park responsibilities are being transitioned back over to us. >> Yep. So, um, and I don't

044remember the length of time and Dr. more than you may remember um for Veterans Park, how it was with the county for a certain number of years and then it was set to transition back over the >> 25 years. >> Yes. So when the complex was initially built, it was worked into the contract that they would maintain grounds the grounds around the school for 25 years and that has that time has passed. And so as part of the transition, we are we are reacquiring um I think 212 acres to maintain. >> How many did you say? >> I'm sorry. >> Say that again. You said 12 acres. >> Yeah. And I'm sorry. I actually was combining other ignore 212. Ignore that 100%. All right. We've got a survey coming out right now and so I

045can give you I can give you that definite amount. I was thinking about a couple of other things in the conversation, but but essentially they have they have overseen all of our fields, all the athletic fields that pertain to the schools as well as the the school grounds [clears throat] themselves. So, think about just just the yardage. Um we are we are taking up responsibility for all of that, for parking, for lighting. Um the only thing that will remain with the county is going to be the storm water. uh in part because the storm water system that is beneath the ground is so complex that there's really no way to identify them owning one and us owning one. And that was part of the conversation we've had with the attorneys. And so the storm water

046maintenance is going to remain with them, but all of the other maintenance that they have overseen is going to come to us. >> And that's $100,000. >> Yes. any did anybody ask and could they step it down over a couple of years instead of just dropping a hundred grand on us? >> No, those are based on our estimates and working with vendors of what it's going to take for us to take over the responsibilities. >> Thank you. >> And oh, I'm sorry. And I will say we did we did ask for the opportunity to maintain the relationship as it's been for 25 years, but they politely declined. >> Um, just a quick question. Don't we share like I know that over the years there was a you know back and forth like they got to

047use our fields and they would maintain some of our fields and all that kind of thing. I know part of that you say part of that that whole discussion but you know are they still not using our fields or did we get anything from the field? >> They do still use fields we share fields on multiple locations. So um fields behind Hogard High School for example there's some fields at Myrtle Grove Middle. Um, they will continue to use some of the fields uh behind Murray and they will continue to work on on those two specific fields. I think it's two of them. U part of the reason is just because of their youth athletic program. They they still need it and so that they've asked that they can continue using that and maintaining that. So

048that's been removed from our estimates. But um I mean overall it's a you know we've got a working relationship with them that I think is is is good. Um there's always some things that we go back and forth with, you know, about, you know, if there's a tree line along the property that they really use, is it for us to maintain or is it for them to maintain? And so I think those conversations continue to happen, but you know, the communication is is pretty open. >> Just when it comes to the uh uh the school bus training stipens, I totally understand the need for that. We need it, but I just want to make sure that the public knows is We're spending an extra $40,000 because the state isn't doing their job and and state

049as far as the state DMV has not been doing their job and we're out another 40,000 because they haven't been doing their job. So, uh, we have to do it. We got we need school bus drivers. So, I'm for it, but want to make sure the public knows it's not something of choice. It's something of necessity. >> Just an observation when Mr. Perry was speaking. I was thinking this is kind of like a Monopoly game and you go around, you know, you get that card. Well, you lose $40,000. Well, you lose $100,000. Well, where's the pile where we gain? >> I mean, we do have some gains, right? We did cover those, right? >> That was your first >> I know. I know. >> She started >> I know. It feels like right now we're

050we're catching all those ones where we lose lose lose. You have a jail card. >> Thank you. Um, do you have do we have a total count for our drivers? I know you gave us an update months back, but I don't know. I know we had in the process pipeline training. >> I think we're just over a hundred right now. I'll double check. I The last number I saw was 106, but I'll double check. >> And we're hoping to have 115. Is that right? >> Yeah. At 120. No, wait. What did you say? >> Was our No, I think it is 115. Um I'm gonna but I can. >> So, and part of the um again part of what we run into with the drivers is simply going back to the training. A lot of

051times we get drivers in the pipeline and there is a delay in getting through and so they find other opportunities. So our goal for this would be to say to the DMV, we are going to do all the training and let you focus solely on the certified rather than the DMV doing both. We are hoping to accelerate that and then have the DMV person who's spread all over the region only focus on the certifying when they're here. Our theory is that so long as the DMV continues their same pattern of visiting us, they can spend all their time accelerating that pipeline. My request to Dr. Morgan was to check with the DMV and make sure that if we are taking over part of the training responsibility that that then doesn't turn around and see a

052decrease in the amount of time we see the DMV. And then the last item on this list that's included in that net request amount is an elimination of a grounds tech position in the maintenance department. >> And quite frankly, that's where you're seeing us try to recoup some dollars. The red areas are us mortgaging properties to, you know, and going back to your monopoly example because again, we've talked about the fact that we are now in the place where we are trading essential services for other essential services. on. >> Next we have instruction and academic accountability division and the net request here is 231,000 and that is to um an increase in the budget for graduation at UNCW CRA TRA Coliseum. um an elimination of the arts um education supervisor. We would replace that with

053two stipens. So we would identify um two employees that would provide visual and music um for the district and we would pay them a stipen of $5,000 annually. And then um it also includes requests to add additional elementary um assistant principles so that the smaller elementary do not have to continue sharing assistant principles and then um an increase for contracts. >> And I would just say real quick uh that you know the discussion number three when principles the other day that's one thing that really stood out to me was that you know they said we really need assist you know one principal said like for today we're with you so there's nobody in my school so you know and then you have a counselor trying to fill in that role and counselor's got a child,

054you know, so many so many safety concerns as well as >> Absolutely. >> Just a point of clarification, this would not put an assistant principal in every [cough] building. This would make sure that people that are sharing have a fold. >> This will not put an assistant principal at our cooperative innovative high schools or uh rights for school. And I'll be honest, I was the principal uh for two weeks at that school when I was at the end of my career. Uh and the superintendent came to me year round school and said there's nobody at that school you assist the principal. So, you know, so I ended up being principal for two weeks just because >> Thank you. I'd just like some clarity on number two. I understand um the desire to eliminate district level

055positions versus classroom teacher but with the supervisor of the arts with the intention with the stipen all county chorus and all county b band and things like that that we've already been given those opportunities continue >> just to maintain that continuity and make sure that there is some point person to continue those kinds of um and to have one contact person um in the county for that. >> Just a question. All so our teacher is really struggling and the principal says I really like to have another art person come in. Would there be an opportunity for that person to have some kind of a tra, you know, some kind of opportunity to go help that person? HR works those things out as a part of normal business. Mr. Okay. >> Um, in regards to number

056one, I I got to uh celebrate two of two of my first graduations last uh year at New Handover and at at Ashley and it was hot. So, I think that and to to the point of uh unsafe and unhealthy uh and uh the So, I'm glad to see this. I I just I know that you and Dr. that we previously did these at at TRA before. Yeah. >> But that they start they started jacking up the price prices. So it was ridiculous. Were you able to get a good deal? We work collaboratively with the university. We're happy with this as a process. >> We work with them to establish a three-year uh agreement so that we can do this for several years in a row to sort of restabilize. >> Yeah. I I believe

057all this left to the schools because of the situation and then once it happened people said we sort of like this and then we discovered that like you said it was hot >> and not hot but we had situations all too often with lightning and thunder people you know >> as a former high school principal every single one of the four high school graduations I did was exactly a 50% chance of rain every single time and just for the health and well-being of everybody involved. It's just cleaner and easier to do it at >> Tras. >> Yeah. >> And we had, you know, we had several people passed out. >> I was going to say less chance of ambulances being dispatched when we're when we're inside. So, yeah. more. >> Does it allow for more

058parents and family to come or is it still >> No, no, not really. >> Actually, it restricts the outside. >> We're going to do about six or seven tickets per student. >> Any other questions on this? >> Okay. And so this page is just a summary of what we just finished going over. So the uh requests that we've included here are 1.3 million together. And so looking at our status um of our budget, taking all these things into consideration, we actually have a budget gap if these are funded um of 2.5 million. >> So let's let's break this down a little more deliberately. with the potential of providing a 3% raise for our employees. That first gap right there impact before requests is we're about $1.2 million short just making sure we give everybody that

0593% raise along with the cost of insurance, retirement, and benefits. We took a $16 million budget request line and knocked that all the way down to 1.26 million. for requests that we want to add to next year. That creates a $2.5 million deficit that we are short covering by. Now, this is going to be a part that we're all going to love, but I want you to go back a couple of slides or a couple of pages, and I do need you to star a couple of your items that are budget requests because these are not these are choices we are going to have to make. They are not mandates. >> What I tried, what we tried to do was to focus on the things that we have heard you guys talk about that are

060important. Now, one of the things you thought we all thought is important is on page um can you go back a couple slides? Uh go forward one. No, forward two now. There you go. One more. >> Sorry. that reclassification of ECTA from 57 to 59, that is a request. That is not a mandate. And before we say we're definitely doing any of these things, we do have a $2.5 million deficit. So I would like you to put a star next to that one because that is one that's going to bear discussion from us. The same thing with number three. We want to provide an occupational therapist hard to fill supplement. However, we have to make sure we are aware that that is a request. That is not a mandate from the state or the government.

061If you'll go forward one, the bus training stipens. And we may be able to find a way to do this. We may take a couple of our vacant bus driver positions and and turn them into a trainer and do that in a costneutral way. So, this wasn't show up on the budget. However, that is something that isn't mandated. So, you'll need to star that one. If you go forward another slide, everybody said it, but we don't have to do our graduations at Tras. We want to do our graduations at Tras. Trust me, I want to do our graduations at TRA. >> I Yeah, we are. >> However, that is a choice that we are making. And number three is also a choice we are making. >> Yeah. The principles So, as we're looking at this

062$2.5 million, I can't bring you a budget that says, "Hey, we're 2.5 in the hole. Let's just see what happens." However, it's only March. We are in conversation with the county commissioners. We are obviously in conversation with our legislators. We're going to talk to the state auditor next week. This is a current state of the union, so to speak. I just wanted you guys to be aware of when I bring this budget, when we bring this budget back to you for signage and for movement on towards the county, that 2.5 will need to be zero. So, I would like to hear from you guys which of these things you feel like are most important so I can ensure that when we bring you back a budget, it balances. But now is the time for this

063sort of conversation. And I don't want to think that anyone walks out of here. It's funny. I was at a listening tour yesterday at Bellamy and sitting down and I had a staff member specifically ask me, "Does the county care about this?" Not the county government, quite frankly, you guys. like, do you have the support of the board? And I was able to tell them unequivocally that you guys worry about this as much as I do >> and that you care about them as much as we do. So, I know that all of us want all of these things, but I don't want the public to get the message that we're going to do everything because we want to. I can't build a budget on want. I have to build a budget on need. I

064think that's where this conversation starts. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I have a question and it's it's been a pet peeve of mine just like as we plan, we need to be able to plan consistently and so I have said on as a parent repeat that the county should be at the same percentage increase of the state as the state. So if we're estimating a 3% raise from the state, then I believe that our county requests should be estimating a 3% increase. So with these numbers that we're seeing and I understand right now this is a total of 2.5 in the hole if we said yes to everything every single thing right now but is that budgeting a 3% increase from the county? >> It is budgeting a 2.33% consumer price index increase which is

065what they have put in their budget. >> We had told them that we were asking for a three and we landed on 2.33 initially. That is a potential that we can do is ask the county to increase that funding back to 3%. >> I would like to see that. >> Dr. Mayor, >> I I know that we can't uh we can't have a budget without knowing where it's coming from. You you're already in conversations with Mr. Fudre and the commissioners. I'm wondering if you've had some success at some of these things that we're talking about as, you know, wants and not needs. >> I don't I don't like the idea of saying we're just not going to do these things and then giving a budget and then going back and saying, "But we really need

066this and can we have more?" I would like I would like to have some of that conversation ahead of time so that we can then put into a budget an anticipated, you know, approval that they need. >> Well, I just did that. That's where the 2.33 came from >> for the overall increase, but have we talked about some of these specific line item requests? >> To be fair, I wouldn't be appropriate to have that conversation with them before I had it with you guys. So, I >> absolutely >> So, no, I have not brought our needs to them in this regard. Got it. After having this conversation, can we go back to county manager uh and the commissioners and say, "So, here's the gap that we're looking at and and let them, you know, tell

067us why we should not have some of these things." You you know what I'm saying? If we give them a budget and say, "Fine, we're not going to have any of this. Here's a budget." It's harder to add on at that point than having some of the conversations early. Do you have that one sheet >> with the per pupil increase from the county? >> And I'm and I hate to say that I'm going to read you guys, so I apologize for jumping in, but you know, I'd like to also go back and I'm going to say the same thing that and it's just bothering me, so I'm going to say it. But you think about the fact the state has said you're a rich county now, so you don't need it and you need to

068come up with extra money >> for supplements because you guys are rich now. So you don't need our money. And you know what? That was like $2 million, wasn't it? >> Like like the same number we're looking right here, is it? I mean, >> good point. >> You're saying the same exact number pretty much that we were short >> is the money that the state said. You >> noticed that, did you? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and he honestly didn't tell me to say that, but that is just amazing to me. and you know the and the and I'm not speaking for the state but it seems like the state is saying you have enough money in the county you we shouldn't give you this money so then somebody's got some somebody's got

069to come up with that money besides us anyway >> I said it >> in our in our one-on- ones with the super last week Barnhart and I brought this up but I don't know if I know the dollar amount difference between 2.33 and 3%. Can you give us that now? Are you able to >> please? I think we should know that dollar amount. >> It'll you you'll see about about half a million is going to be my back of the envelope math, but you'll get a better number in a second. >> Okay. Mr. >> While we wait, Mr. Um the two things, but one uh are we constantly continuing to look for um for more of the uh outside funding. For instance, I'm looking at supervisor of arts education. Is this something that we can

070go to somebody to get a grant for $10,000 from somebody and you know a third party arts and humanities type of grant or something like that? I mean are there ways we can get some of this through some and then I will and if you can give me the answer to that question. I I do the biggest you know increase on our warrants is in the technology department. That's 600 and some odd thousand dollars. And so with a 4% increase on some of these software contracts, uh it used to be when you bought software, it was you bought it and then you own it and and now they just want now they get you in this perpetual year-long license thing and it's expensive. So, >> and correct me if I'm wrong, Don. These are not

071like your school's like supplemental curriculum like um it's not your math facts. It's not your things like this. These are the big ticket districtwide security and infrastructure stuff, right? >> That is correct. Yes. Um any software that we do that's curricular instruction, we actually pay for it and the schools pay back and they're not included in this at all. >> Okay. Um but I think we as a discussion and we got you know as far as the future of the devices for every student kind of idea in the textbook but because this is huge the technology yes some of it's necessary and some of it's career oriented so I don't want to get rid of that um like I said I think computer science class and I thought it was a old digital PP11 as

072our server but a little terminal but um the um but it was good but the uh but we didn't do most of our learning during the day on that that was specialized class for that so >> yeah and but anyway I I think we need to look at that part because that that is a huge part of our budget and I also think we need to u see what we can do to get more third party grants for some of these things like like the supervisor arts education siphons and things something that number >> I do. So that um and going up to 3% versus 2.33 would be an additional 693,000 approximately. Um but remember charter schools will get their portion of that. So they'll receive about 55,000 which would leave us about 637,000. Let

073me reference just a couple of things for you guys, okay? And this is going to be well, in 2023, the county commissioners provided this district $91 million for our ADM of 2585, which was a per pupil expenditure of 33 3,627 a kid. Okay. So, you might want to write that number down. $3,627 a kid. >> What year was it? >> In 2023. In 2024, they went up to $94 million. Our enrollment went down. In 2025, they went up to $99 million. Our enrollment went down. Last year, they gave us $103 million and our enrollment went down again. Currently, our per pupil this year we're in right now, the county is providing us $4,354 per student. >> 4,000 >> $4,354. I do want to reference and I think it's appropriate to say that this does not

074include mental health therapists, nurses, or SRO's. If they give us the 2.33% increase, the two 3133 233, that would increase us to $105.8 million and our enrollment is at 23 237, which is a cost of $4,455 per pupil. So, I think it's totally appropriate to say to the county commissioners, hey, this is our gap. This is where we are. But I also want to make sure that we can do everything we can to address that prior to asking for an additional funding aotment. I do think it's fair to say that they have increased our allotment every single year while the state and the feds have not. I think when we have this resonating conversation and we add into it, hey, you told us no, we can't have that money back for the storage tanks, but

075we want it anyway. We have to sort of decide where are our priorities going to be. Now, I've sat down with the county commissioners and I've said it a lot. Your your taxpayer dollars pay for me to be relentlessly pursuing what's best for public education. That is my job. And I've got no problem saying we need more, we need more, we deserve more, we want more. >> There's a difference between we don't need anything and we can't afford everything. >> On the same topic, when we get to talking a little bit about enrollment in a little bit, we're going to talk about how much it costs to live here. >> That's a balance with taxes as well. >> Now, I don't like any of this conversation. I don't like but I think we have to

076play fair ball, right? And I think fair ball is I don't want to go back to the county and not reference the fact that they have been supplementing us when the state and the federal government is not >> and I would agree but I also think we need to you know as we go back to them and I think we should have conversations you said with them but I think we need to go back with not only because I've heard a lot from them well you guys got to figure it out on your end. Well I think that a lot of things we just saw you know 10% decrease in superintendent um budget budget you know everything else that we're you know cutting out you know the central office positions every I think we need

077that on one hand you know so yes we are we are trying to do that you know we we have these meetings over there miss justice first >> well in a way the county commissioners are between a rock and a hard place but this is because of the legislation um this is a fact Um, in 2012 we were 27th in the nation expenditure. Now we're down to 50. >> That's on the legislature. As Dr. Barnes says, we're sub subsistence. We can't do anything else. But yet we are, thank God, a very rich county. >> And so this is between a rock and a hard place. Well, they they need to look at what's really important in this county. is education and it should be, you know, we're wealthy. We're like the eighth wealthiest county in

078the state and right now we're doing good, but you know, they could do better, especially with we've got something nobody else in the county. >> And I'm gonna let Miss Mason go because she hasn't spoken in a long time. Miss N. Oh, is she here today? Oh, she is. >> She is. She was on time, too. >> Oh, wow. >> Sorry. >> Was she? >> She was. She was early. So, thinking about all of this and looking at what we have in front of us, this can't be a continuous conversation that we have where we're continually going, what can we keep, what can we we need to have a plan moving forward. I feel like we as a district need to to start thinking about how can we alleviate some of this burden. um and

079what can we what can we move around what can we what kind of plans can we have so I think we need to move forward as a district with an actual plan so yes ask say hey county commissioners you have given us this increase every single time but also here's what we're doing so that you don't have to we're not going to keep on going please sir can I have some more you know we need to have some sort of plan in place um from our staff to >> say okay we're We're not there yet, but this is where we want to get be and this is how we hope to get there. So, I feel like that should be something that we converse to. >> Thank you. I I want to echo the sentiment.

080I do appreciate the support that we receive from the county commission. The biggest line item in our operating budget is people. And so this is where the rock and the hard place is is because we want to continuously invest in people that are supporting our students. And so I think today around this table that's what we're talking about is how can we keep the resources and operate maybe in a different manner. Um and one of the things that we have done and we've taken a lot of time to do this is talking about a bond so we can have some agility and potential for movement because the only other way in the operating budget is the maintenance aspect of the facilities and we talk about resources being stretched. We talk about the maintenance team being

081stretched and so if we can look at some consolidation that means we can keep all of our people and have more money to reinvest in our people and our resources. And so I think that that is part of the long term that you're discussing. My colleague to the the right is discussing and I think that would be something that we would have to direct the superintendent to look at some facility studies because I'd like to know if we are able to consolidate, would that save us $500,000 that we can reinvest into our staff? Not cutting any staff to say what would that look like? Um so the I think those are things that um we should be looking into. That's not a year-to-year fix. We're not just going to say, "Hey, this year this school

082is not going to operate this year." Like the the year-to-year fix is that push and pull of this school enrollment increased by 20, so they're going to get another aotment. This one decreased, so they're going to get less. You know, so that's the year-to-year increase, but the overarching vision, we have to look at that and evaluate it um in that manner as well. And the other thing I want to say before we leave today is this is the baseline because if we do receive a grant from the endowment, you can say we got this grant that covers this. So now that's a little bit less. The the county commission is kind of the the catchall net of this is everything if we're looking at everything we'd like to get with no movement on lottery funding,

083with no movement on the state, with no movement anywhere else. And so I think looking at this and also knowing that is important too because my understanding is we're still going to be pursuing other revenue sources. Is that a correct understanding? So that's also just something to keep in mind. >> [clears throat] >> First of all, I just want to um you know, there's been a lot of talk that, oh, we're a rich county and all this stuff. >> And I would in some ways, I'm sure there's some new arrivals that are would fit into that category. But the fact of the matter is is that most people who bought a home are only rich in the sense that that their appraised value of their home has gone up a bunch. doesn't mean they're making

084any more money and it doesn't mean that some it's it's money that you could take from them but then they'd be even poorer and be moving out of town. We're losing students. We can't tax the crap out of everybody or we're going to lose more kids, more families with with students who who can't afford to live here anymore. So, I think we have to be conscious of that. I wish the state would use more of a formula where it's based off income ratio to property value or some other way of really determining because I think there's a lot of people who are living right in New H County right now who are struggling >> and uh and it's not and they're not rich. So um the um and and the only other thing I just

085wanted to ask as far as the Dr. runs and answer the question. As a percentage of the county budget, has per people pupil funding still gone up as a percentage of of of all their expenditures? >> Oh, that's a good question. I don't know the answer to that question. We would have to find like has Okay, they've gone up for us, but has their gross domestic product gone up as well? I don't know the answer. That's a good question. I can find that out. >> I mean, that's fair question, too. You know, It goes up every year if you but they you know it goes up to us by 1% and they increase their their revenues by 4%. >> Well Americans then back to >> to follow up on that before I ask my question

086you'd want to know what the percentage of the revenue by taxing went up too. If it went up 40% um you know that's a number we should know with the riaval how much did it go up? Well, but it's still um the thing that that that >> the thing that we keep as we as we work through this frustration, the thing that we that's the most Mr. Perry said the most expensive thing on here other than positions was the $600,000 in technology. But we have to come back to these mandated expenses. It's $2.6 million. We don't have any choice over mandated. we have to have that money. And so to me, it stands out that we need to go after that money because we have no choice. We We're stuck in a hard place. Yeah,

087papa won't give it to us. Mama won't give this to us. Grandma won't give it to us. Grandpa won't give it to us. But somehow the kids need underwear and socks, you know. So, we have to find it somewhere. And I don't think the endowment's going to cover something of that kind of an expense. So, but I think when we talk about it, we need to keep in mind that because there's the perception out there that we're still we still have, you know, money socked away somewhere. But just $2.6 million in mandated expenses that are all built around employees and employee benefits. That's the to me that's the the biggest thing here that we're we have to grapple with. Just an observation. Every time I visit the county commissioners, I thank them for the amount

088of money that they give us. They are not mandated to give us that money. And I remind them that the national average for local per pupil spending is far far more than what they are spending. Now, we can't change everything overnight. When we talk about going to the county commissioners and asking for money, what we're really saying is we're going after the population of New Henrik County because it's our property taxes that funds the majority of their budget. So, when we go to quote uh mama and papa, I'm not sure which one the county commissioners were uh in that scenario, we're actually going to the population. We're going to New Hmer County residents and saying, "Hey, we need to give our kids a decent education, and in order to do that, we're asking you to

089pay more property tax." I mean, that's really where it comes down to. Uh, and right now, we need a budget. I mean, sorry, we need a bond passed. So, I'm not sure that this year is the year to say we want your property taxes to go up. >> Will the bond will increase property taxes? >> Uh, yes, it will. It will. Now, the average owner will see about $100 a year, >> which is >> I think but but Dr. Merrick, your your >> your question is how how many times we go back to the well, right? Like, oh, we need $2 million now. Oh, and don't forget we also need $230 million later, 320. Sorry, sorry, sorry. >> But I think but I think you're right. Like, where is the where's the breaking point in

090that? I think that's a really good question. >> It to me it is really about public education at this point. If the average local per pupil spending is $7,200 and that was in 24 and they're talking about right now they're they've bumped it up to about 4,500 just about. It's still well below the national average. And so really what we're saying to the people who live in New Hmer County, you've got a pretty cherry tax rate and we have a education system that's struggling and is it worth their while, but this may not be the year to push it. >> I was just trying to clarify that again because I'm just trying to clarify this. You said that the county itself is giving a 3% increase to their employees. No, they use the 2.33 number

091in their budget as well >> for their employees for their budget. >> That that's what we've seen in their budget as well. >> And so that's what we're using is a 2.33 for increasing our budget. Okay. I'm just trying to >> couple things to reference. Do you want to go? >> All right. So, we've already brought you uh what I consider the technology sustainability plan. You guys have a copy of that. We've talked a lot about prek. We talked a lot about solutions for prek. We've talked a lot about solutions for this budget. Now, I'll tell you, $2 million or a whole of 2.5 million. And honestly, Mr. Wible, I had not put together that that is almost exactly the amount that the state took back in supplements. >> That's a very real number, right?

092I think that's really interesting that that number balances. >> So I think what the next step is is that $2 million is a huge amount of money to all of us, but in the grand scheme of things, there are districts that are way, way worse than that. There are districts 8 million in the hole, six million in the hole. Obviously Winston Salem's 50 million in the hole, and they're struggling out of that fact. >> Miss Sutton is bringing you a budget that we can live on. Okay. That we can survive on. I would reference what you said a minute ago. We can nickel and dime our way for the next few years. We can stretch. The rubber band hasn't snapped yet. We can keep sharing. We can keep, you know, kind of robbing Peter to

093pay Paul a little bit. But I sat down and I took the last five years and I said, "How many kindergarteners did we bring in in the last five years? how versus how many seniors we've exited. Now, I spent the first year of this superintendency guiltridden about losing students. >> They're they're making other choices. It's our fault that they're not here. We're not doing a good enough job and that's why people are leaving us. And then Miss Sutton brought forward the reports from the state that show that the numbers of people aren't changing. the folks that are using opportunity scholarships, 92% of them weren't public school students to start with. So, in one way, it was kind of freeing, right? Oh my god, it's not our it's not our lack of work. It's not our

094lack of effort or progress that kids are leaving. It's financial and it's birth rate. So, I said, "Okay, let me let me let me really reference this." So, I went back and looked at Pender and Brunswick. Brunswick has increased. They are the number one location in the southeast to live in. They are increasing in enrollment. It's not matching the decrease for ours. So then I said, okay, how many kindergarters have we brought in every year for the last 5 years? And how many seniors do we graduate? Does that make sense? And what's that differential? That differential alone in the last five years has been almost 1,800 students. So, it's not that we're losing students due to any fault of this district or you guys or our teachers, but it's just that a constant slow bleed

095of graduating 2000 and bringing in 1,700 adds up over time. That is where I think this birth rate question is sort of coming in. So then I said, okay, let's look at next year's 12th graders, next year's 11th graders, 10th graders, 9th graders, and eighth graders. How many of them are regraduating? How many are we proposed to bring in next year as kindergarten? And then I sort of took the average for every year after that because I it's hard to go how many kindergarters will there be? It's always sort of a crapshoot, right? So I took an average. We are set to possibly lose another thousand kids just in birth rate issues alone in the next five years. So you guys looked at this sheet. Uh Ashley, can you go all the way back to

096your This is slideshow gone. >> Oh, settle down. Go back. Go back to the slide that talks about Keep going back. I'll tell you when I get there. Uh that one we lost 800 students. We showed this slide and said the state's going to send us less teachers because we have less students. And every one of you guys went, "Yeah, that's a fair ball. We got to play that one. That makes sense to all of us." I think the question we have to ask ourselves is, do we need the same number of buildings for 22,000 students that we needed for 26,000 students? And if you believe this to be accurate and fair ball, then I think what I would ask you guys to explore is having, you know, like I said, I can, you know,

0972030, I can get us to 2030, but then I'm going to leave you guys with a big old problem to fix that I I wonder if it wouldn't be better served for me to bring you a district sustainability plan to say Yes, we need the bond, but the bond is to not build new buildings. It's to replace outmoded, unsafe, inefficient buildings. And once we have those, can we then double down and say, what other buildings do we have that are outmoded, outdated, inefficient, and unsafe? And maybe look at shuttering some of those. Every district in the Big 12 that is losing enrollment is talking about this. Rather than me just randomly say let's close this, let's close that, what if we brought to you a 10year, eightyear, whatever sustainability plan to say over the next

098eight years, this is where we think the district needs to be in 2030, 2032 versus where it is now. I think if we bring something like that to the county and say because my thing is asking for money without figuring out where to tighten our belts first is not fiscally responsible. >> And I think that I'm not saying that that this is separate from the bond, right? Because the bond has to replace these buildings that are unsafe and and and inefficient. But what we did is I said, "Find me the 10 oldest buildings in the district that are the most inefficient, that are the oldest and and require the most upkeep." And then I said, "Find me the 10 buildings that are least dense, that have the lowest enrollment, and what's the ven diagram between

099those two build between those two circles, right?" And say, "Where's their room to move?" And ironically, when I did that, Pine Valley and Williams are both on both lists because we know that they're old and outdated, and we know that they need the enrollment hit. So, I think you would do yourself better to say, can you bring us a five or six or 10 year sustainability plan for prek and for the district to let us make financial decisions into the future rather than nickel and dimeming ourselves every year? Does that does that resonate with you guys? And did I say that right, Ashley? >> Miss Justin. >> Um, so does this mean when you talk about this, how how much affect our bond proposal at that point because those are a couple schools that are

100involved in the bond. >> Well, I think it would actually I think it dubtales into the bond request because it's not that we we're not asking for the bond to build new buildings. We're asking the bond to replace buildings that are unsafe and outmoded. And once I build a Pine Valley that has space in it, does that allow us to close a different building that is outmoded, unsafe, or outdated because we now have space to put those kids? Like right now, most of our buildings are at not at capacity, but we're not seeing we're seeing sprinkles, right? You're seeing some schools that are are low lower, some schools that aren't. But if we lose another thousand kids just in the in the sort of shift in the next decade, >> is that going to mean

101that we could utilize our stuff more effectively? >> Um, another thought when you were speaking about this um we unlike other cities in this state, we're the second fastest growing behind Wake County in the nation. So what does this mean? That we may not be as negatively affected as you're predicting at this point just because our growth rate, you say Brunswick, Brunswick is boom, >> right? >> But you know, Brunswick, a lot of people that live in Brunswick depend on us as far as their cultural experiences and things like that. We don't necessarily >> Or they work here. >> Pardon? >> Or they work here. trying to get over the bridge. >> So I'm I'm just saying does this necessarily mean that you can that we have an accurate count of how much we are

102going to lose due to the decrease in population should we might be more than >> it's a good question. How how can we tell? Is there some way? >> And if we get a bond and we build a new building, sometimes people move in because of the resources in the buildings, right? So, I'm giving you my best guess, right? Like that's what's hard about it. >> I think I feel better when I realize that people aren't leaving our school system because they're dissatisfied with the school system. They're leaving the school system because they have to feed their families. And I'm I get that. I totally get that. our title one numbers have decreased again which again references something you were saying about the fact that of our 800 student loss about 400 of those students

103were title one students. So, I I think that before we go to the county and say we need something more, we have to bring them a plan because eventually we need to stand on our own feet. And have we done every single thing we can to make that happen? That's the question we have to ask ourselves. Dr. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I don't mean to um take us off topic, but I just wanted to make a comment what you said that, you know, you said, yeah, 39 teachers loss, that makes sense because of the loss of enrollment. >> I just need to point to the fact that the amount of of teacher loss that we've had over the last several years has not been >> uh you know, balanced with how with the

104loss. So, I don't want the public to think, well, all the teachers we've lost, well, that's just the way it goes. We've we've cut and cut and cut >> and and and that's why you see these cuts in the central office. I'm not going to cut schools without taking a fair hit in our central office as well. But I think that the 300 position cut you're speaking of a couple of years ago was necessary because we were living outside >> outside of our means based on historic >> um funding from the state and the county. And that's I guess >> no. Yeah. But but what I'm saying is that we when we talk about standing on our own, >> we're talking about standing on our own based on what we're getting from the state and

105the county. >> And the question has to be in the public sphere, is what we're getting an appropriate amount for what our kids need? If we had more, it's not waste, right? So standing on our own means they're not giving us enough money. We have to deal with that. Yes, >> that's first. Yeah. And and that's why even both um Miss Barnhard and I I mean I'm I'm working at the state level with this public school forum talking about tiered student funding formula and and how to address this at the state level. All of us are talking to legislators. I did not mean to indicate that we're just going to have less people and that's cool. I know you stop what you were indicating, but part of what we're doing now, like I said, is

106is that we're having to decide, do we want an assistant principal or not? Do we want a graduation in a place that's safe for families or not? I don't like us being in a place where we have to argue about things we think are essential. >> At the same point in time, I also have to look in the face like yesterday. And and folks, the reason I go to schools and the reason I talk to staff is I told them that um you guys all know what entropy is. >> Look at you. Good for you. Entropy is a scientific theory that the world proceeds from order to disorder. >> That as time goes on, things fall apart. And if this senior staff spends at least time every week, it's expected that they go to schools

107and meet with principles. I go and meet with all staff because if we lose track of what's happening at the school level, we make bad decisions. >> The reason I wasn't ready to bring the life-wise question to you guys is because I haven't talked to our principles yet and they're an essential part of this. Having you guys talk to our principles is important. You you have to sit and look at this budget after talking with them in the face, right? So, I'm never going to say we have enough and I'm going to ceasefully pursue us to have more, but I also need to make us more agile. because I can't have us having to have these discussions every year. It's >> heart rending. >> And you guys know that I' I've brought to you several

108different examples and I'm not ready to bring them today because I do want to talk to our county and and look at some other things. The choices I have to balance this, we don't like those either. >> So, I think that we need to be working on two things at a time, >> right? We need to be advocating for more funding and doing those things, but I also have to make sure that we're being as efficient as we can before what we do happen. And that's also going to be a hard conversation because that's going to make discomfort for people. >> It's going to be uncomfortable for you guys. And my only hope is if we do a 10-year plan, that's going to be built with public input, >> with times for parents and families

109to come and speak with us. And you guys are going to have to be the ones to help measure that balance. But I wouldn't be doing my job and I wouldn't be letting Ashley do her job if I let us keep going forward without looking at a long range sustainable plan. So looking at that, I've been thinking about that since last week and after talking with the principles and the APS, it seems to me that we have two choices. We can sit in the dirt and cry about the loss of essential service funding. Or we can take to the stakeholders, to the taxpayers, to the parents, to the public, which do you prefer? Lose the positions that educate your children. Possibly lose the building that you actually love. And that's what we have to to

110to to make them understand. You want more positions, but we can't get you more positions. And we have facilities that might could be combined that are outdated, outmoded, and under utilized. >> So, to me, this is a hard decision to come with, but I'm going to support any motion that Miss Barnhart brings to instruct him to do this plan because I see no option other than to sit in the dirt and cry. We can use ask instead of direct or instruct if you guys want to. >> Well, it it it it [laughter] feels better when we make you do it than than you know. >> You use the word problem. Um, I just wanted to to say that um that I think part of the reason and and please correct me if I'm wrong, but

111not all of our I mean some of it might be birth rate, but a lot of it's just affordability. Uh the it's not it's in people people can't afford to live in New Hover County anymore. And so they're going to Brunswick and they're going other places where where if you're just a young family starting off and you're probably not making you're not making enough money to buy a home here right now. And there's a reason it wasn't that long ago, maybe 2018, you know, you could buy a house for a little over $200,000 and raise your family in it here in New York County. Uh yeah, good luck. That's probably at least twice as much now. So um the and I think part of that you know, you can really just blame on our, you

112know, Wilmington city council and our and our and and our board of commissioners for giving all these zoning variances away. Oh, let's build all these apartment buildings and everything else and now now you don't have single family homes anymore. So, you're not so it just becomes a free-for-all for rich people to come here instead of families. But anyway, I want to get to the point which is is uh I I I hope that they're they're listening and and that they'll try to reverse course on as far as zoning and where we can have responsible development going forward that will invite families to come back here to New York County. That is the point we want families to come back here. We want to see a return to our school population. Uh, and I hope that

113we can encourage that and through our taxation policy and and through our our zoning probably that's out of my league, but I hope that they're listening. And so I'm okay if we need to consolidate our things. Now, the only problem I have is if we ever do turn it around and get our student population on the grow again, if we sell this property, we may never get it back for without spending a lot of money. If we want to close it temporarily, I'm okay with that. uh because I know that will cut cost but and but I don't want to get rid of the property necessarily because once it's gone you're never going to get it back. It's going to cost a zillion dollars more to get it back. >> Thank you. I mean I

114agree with my colleague that the d if if the motion and I can make one that's fine if the motion to direct the superintendent to bring forth a sustainability use plan for our facilities over the next till 2030. Um, I would make that motion >> and I'll second it. >> And I would say that this doesn't mean you're closing a building tomorrow. >> I I was I was in the discussion point. That's what I was going to say. Having an idea to say to give us information because again, we're not just going to pick a random school and say, "Hey, this one. Hey, this one." We're going to say, >> "Look, if this were to be shuttered for whatever, that would save $500,000 operating." We could in turn move those students and staff to a

115different school, still provide resources and actually consolidate resources. So instead of a part-time art teacher, you have a full-time art teacher in the building. Instead of a part-time social worker, it's a full-time social worker. That in my opinion is going to provide a better educational experience for our children. And so being able to look into that, that's how I see this. And we cannot make this decision today. This has to be a plan that we discussed long term. So I'm happy um like I said, make that motion. And on the flip side too, as we go through and talk about these things, because we do have to evaluate how we're utilizing things, my question I'm going to continuously ask is >> how are we serving these students in this capacity if this happens? Are we

116how are we still serving these students? Yeah. Right. And looking at these options and the public will understand as we're discussing them further. But that that should be the focus of our discussion because when you're talking about for instance prek um I'm a proponent and advocate of prek. However, we've also discussed it not being financially sustainable because the lensure and different things of saying what can we do to make it more sustainable so that we can continue serving the same number of students versus just keeping everything how it is and having to cut how many kids we serve year after year. And so those are the questions as we have these conversations that I think will help us not get frustrated and just cry in the dirt about things of saying let's talk about how

117we are using our resources to serve and provide quality programs for our students. Um yeah but I make that motion >> and I did you restate the motion? I make a motion to direct the superintendent to bring forth a sustainability use program um for the district that runs through 2030. >> Okay. I know that Dr. Barnes has been talking about this to us off and off for some time now and so I just want to make sure that this is the proper step. Is this how we go forward? This has been your suggestion for quite some time. So should we now do this? Is this how we go forward? influence this process. >> So, at the end of the day, what I care about is this community, these students, and these families. I don't want

118to get us five years down the road and leave you with a problem where the district becomes unsustainable. This will be a very controversial event for this city. >> So, I am not going to bring you a plan next month. This takes time. It's going to take effort. And if the when the bond goes through, >> yes, >> when the bond goes through, this creates more opportunity to address issues that we have. Quite frankly, the last two times that an idea about shuttering a building has come up, we have had to reverse that partly because we didn't bring the families in the community into that. And that's this is me as well. So, this will take time to do, but quite frankly, I don't I didn't want to put the kind of sweat equity it's

119going to cost this team and myself to bring you a plan that we then don't do. >> So, so I'm going to bring you a plan. It's going to take a lot of work. I need you guys to be aware of that work that it will cause a lot of concern for our families. Thank you. I I don't really know that we need to, you know, make a motion and approve that. I think you this is the work that you do in the background that, you know, even when you do produce it, we will still going to have to vote on whether or not we would implement that. >> Of course, and and but I'm going to have to start doing it in public, >> right? Like I'm going to engage with families >> our

120support >> and and of course we would want to be part of that at every step of the way. And I'm sure you >> and it would be a little weird for you guys to call me and go, "Hey, what you doing?" You know, and not have you guys know that I'm even like I I I think this is at the end of the day, this is what is good for children. [cough] >> But I want I don't understand your direction. Maybe you're a blessing that this is a step that you want me to take that you want us to take >> because if I I don't want to put that in and then have you go that guy's going rogue. We don't know what he's talking about. This is the eight of us working

121collectively together and I need to know it's where you want me to jump if that makes sense and where you want our team to go. >> It does. >> Absolutely. And I I like the idea of doing it as a motion even though I don't think we need to because it does show that we're working together at this and I think that gives you some cover. >> Oh no. I want you to make it a motion. I'm not going to go wander around doing it myself direction. >> Yeah. I just wanted to you pretty much just answered my question in the last couple comments you made was is getting that community involvement. Um, excuse me. Um, we are you going to be hosting a lot of forums around different neighborhoods of the of the county

122to get parents input? Um, how much are you going to involve you are you going to involve commissioners, other groups of businesses? >> Step would bring you a not a proposal, >> but to bring you sort of a run of of steps in what the process itself would look like. Do you know what I mean? Because even before I go, here are the buildings you want to think about, >> we have to get input first to create that cycle, right? So I think what you would see from me first >> before we get to summer probably >> or maybe as a part of this budget I can give you here's what I think the the protocol would be to address this to build a plan. Does that make sense? So you would guys be able

123to see here's my thought process and the steps we could take to do it before it even comes back to you to look at it if that makes sense. >> Sounds great. >> Does that make sense? Am I saying that right? >> And just to remind everybody we do still have as far as I can read capital LA recommendation to do and we have 12 minutes. So, so you know, >> I just wanted to offer a discussion point of what my colleague all the way to the left over there said this county has a history of superintendents doing things that they wanted without board direction. So, I think it shows clearly that he has the direction to do this and I think it's warranted. And I'm concerned about it happening before November when we pass

124that by. >> It's too long of a process. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I I don't I I mean I could be totally wrong on a timeline, but I don't see this even coming close to fruition till next budget cycle to be to be very frank. >> Yeah, >> because this because this is going to require so much input because we're going to create the criteria because there's going to be analysis done of what would that operating be recouped if a facility was closed. You know, how much money is it going to cost to upkeep the building to the point that we want it? You know, what's the over under? There's lots of things to evaluate in this. So, I do not think next month, two months, we're going to have this plan that we're

125going to decide on. And again, bringing forth a plan, then there's going to be discussion about, you know, how much we agree or disagree. And again, shuttering a school is not selling off a property. So, you know, what is that timeline? We're going to I think I think this is a long range, but what I'm saying is year after year, the easiest fix to balance the budget has been with people, right? We cut a position, we split a teacher part-time at two or split AP. And so the harder discussion is the facility use. And if we have a plan for that, then we could make a good decision in two years that we'd able to be recoup and get keep more people for our for our students. And so that's that's where my desire in

126the motion that I brought forward to the table lies. It's not a quick turnaround. Um, I do believe with the facilities that we have on the bond, um, it increases the core capacity of some of these schools in addition to replacing them, which allows for agility um, and movement, and we'd have to consider that in this plan. So, I don't think it's so short-term. >> I think you're right. I think you might see in this budget plan what my proposal for the protocol would be. You would see the plan in next year's budget. And trust me, there are tons of school systems where I can look at to say you did it good well and you did it really badly. And this is happening all over the state. We are going to have protocols to

127follow. >> Okay. >> But I just want to make sure that we don't cut out the people that matter most >> which are the families, teachers, and and and community. >> Um I I would just ask my colleague who made the motion if she would be willing to extend it to more than 2030. so that there's a longer um plan in place that it would be 10 years rather than at this point only four. >> I'd be happy to amend the motion to be a 10-year plan if that is if that's the will of the board. >> Miss S, do you think that's I think that would probably >> my heart might not take a fiveyear go at this. A 10 year would be a little more. Yeah, I think getting us further even if

128it were eight, getting us further into the bond and being able to get some through some of those projects, being able to include that in this budget item and the timeline would be helpful. So, I would say at least eight, but 10 would be great because that would line up with the bond. >> And there is a distinction, right? Closing a building affects our operating budget. >> Yes. >> Selling a building affects our fund balance. Now, I think that we need to do some balance of all of this probably, but I'm the only thing God's not making more of is land, right? >> Yes. >> So, we have to be very careful about selling >> Yes. >> property. However, >> a lot of like this $2.5 million here that we're nickel and dimming, if I

129had a $50 million fund balance, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. >> We'd just be rolling, right? because I I >> it's really about how long is the runway to land the plane on, right? And so without a fund balance, my runway our runway is a lot tighter. >> If we had that I could say, well, I'm going to do this this year and then we'll do some of this next year. We'll kind of slowly bleed altitude. these things without having a fund balance make this make the changes in altitude much more >> significant order the uh I'm gonna point of order that we do need a second for your >> for your uh changing >> I I'll amend the motion to be a 10-year facility study plan we have a second >> that

130was exactly right >> yeah I I was waiting for him to get done okay >> good luck >> so yeah really Um anyway, any other discussion about the amendment? All in favor of amending the motion to a 10-year instead of a what did you say four year? >> Uh please signify by saying I >> I all oppose like sign passes 70. Now we have the original motion which has now been amended which is a 10-year uh study directing not asking but directing the superintendent to um um Can you reate your motion please? I did not write it down. >> Directing the superintendent to have a district facility usage plan for the next 10 years. >> Sustainability plan. >> Can we direct nicely? [laughter] >> I make a motion to nicely direct the superintendent. >> Okay.

131Any further discussion on that facility? >> Hearing none. All in favor of directing the superintendent to uh make a 10-year district sustainability plan. Please signify by saying I. >> I. All oppose like sign. >> That passes 70. >> We're going to carry on now with the capital outlay recommendation. Miss. >> Yes. So in your binder, you should have this handout. Um it is behind your 2627 capital outlay recommendation tab. Um this is the recommendation that's coming forth from the finance capital bond committee. um our divisions brought a recommendation to that committee and this is what's coming out of the committee which is the recommendation from staff and so um I'll be glad to go through any detail um questions you have but the summary page one is the summary of the recommendation um here you

132can see the top box on this page shows the request by category um the total request is a little over $8 million, but that does include revenue um being provided through lottery. So, we have two different lottery pots. We have our state lottery, which is the traditional lottery. Um and then we have repairs and renovations, which is a an additional lottery pot that we received um that that started after the first pot. Anyway, so we actually have two different sources that come through lottery. Um and so the county appropriation would be the 2.8 million you see there. Um it's in the second box, the third column, fourth column. And then it does also include um if it's the will of the board, a million dollar ask from the endowment um to help fund technology needs.

133And so the total request, as stated before, is that $8 million. And so would you like to go through the details or do you want to come back to this at the next work session? I'd leave that up to the board. >> We'll start with Dr. Mayor. >> I was just going to ask a question about this, but it her question sort of supersedes it. Do we want to look at this next time or not? >> Well, as maybe I was correct. I thought we we had lot allotted till 1:00, but if we allotted two o'clock, we have plenty of time to talk. >> According to if I according to the calendar invite, it says in the >> Okay. Yes, we have a whole hour. So, there you go. >> Okay. >> I would I

134would say let's let's >> ask. Huh. All right. Uh can you explain I'm sorry, the county appropriation, the 2.8 million. >> Uh has that been approved? Is that something that we're expect? >> Yep. So, um the lottery revenue is based on estimates um looking at the previous five years. Um and we feel comfortable with those estimates. the county appropriation revenue revenue number um is really a conversation that we have with county manager um and and I think this was also from that conversation in line with some projections they did last year and based on needs that we projected last year and what was funded and just you know carrying what they didn't fund out for the next several years is how they came up with the 82 I'm sorry 2.8 8 million. >> That's not

135the 2.33% out. >> No, that is not that's that's just um an estimate that we've come up with, but certainly I mean it's the will of the board as far as that recommendation going forward to the county last Correct. just kick things off. >> I second. >> Second. Okay. I I'm still a little bit short on understanding. >> Sure. you know, we have what we've been getting from the county and this is an additional ask. >> Yes. So, this is >> outside of everything else that we're asking. >> Yep. So, um normally we submit to the county uh local appropriation request. So, that's for our operating budget. So, that's what we just finished that conversation. And then we bring to them a separate request for capital needs. Um and so last year or this year,

136sorry. um they provided $2.6 million for the capital appropriation and this would bring it up to $2.8 million. And then we usually also ask for continuing funding for the prek and we are planning I haven't brought that forward yet but we are planning to ask for a 2.33% increase for the prek program from them. So there's three different separate requests that we send. Miss Justice. >> Well, that's because the facilities that's our responsibility to count. Yeah, that's why it's a separate >> ask. >> And we did receive this number from the county and so they are aware of this number. And I also want to highlight the fact that this would be separate from a $320 million bond >> five. So that this would be, you know, I think it's appropriate, this number is appropriate

137with that also in the hopper. >> Justice. >> Yeah. I want to be real clear that one of the reasons that our facilities in such dire shape is because in the past they have not requested or gotten maybe they did request, but they certainly did get enough to to actually cover all the repairs and needs that we've had over the last 20 years. I'm not just saying two or three years, 20 years. >> And a lot as Dr. Bar mentioned before, we have a lot of buildings. >> Yeah. Like anything else, you know, when it's brand new, it looks great and stays great, and then >> five years down the road, it needs this and needs that, and 100 years down the road, it needs a lot more. >> Yeah, there we >> That's where

138entropy comes in. >> To clarify, >> okay, so we have a motion, if there's no other discussion, to uh accept and move forward with the capital outlay budget request. Um, all in favor, please signify by saying I >> I sir, I thought we have It's a request. I I thought we'd have discussion. >> We We did have discussion, but you have something else to say. >> I'll just again one of the I'll just bring up in here just to see the biggest outlier again is technology. We desktop laptops, um iPad replacements, um that's almost a million bucks right there. Um >> which page is that? questions about that. >> Yeah, I mean I think we again we need to have this discussion about the feasibility and long-term thing of the this one to one, you

139know, everybody having a having a a every student having one and and whether it's worth it or not because There's another million dollars and we already talked we already had concerns about what was in the previous one which was one of the biggest get in the two what is 600 some miles. So that's a million six right there. >> I'm not discounting what you're saying. I want to let you know these devices actually are for staff to replace the devices they have that will not update to Windows 11. So this um $520,000 for the Windows 11 is for staff. And the the the second one for the iPads, that is actually for staff and students. Um so that is not student laptops or computers. It is for staff. We have a number of machines that

140we are not able to update to Windows 11. And if we don't do it by um October, >> then um yeah, >> we would be pulling those devices out of the schools. And there be less computers. These would be >> S. I mean, I know I know they were offering a three-year contract for continuing getting updates. Was that ever looked into? I believe I mentioned that a few months. >> Yes, we did. We have extended our thing and that's why we're extending it to everybody else. It has already ended. We've got it extended to this year. This is what we're able to do with ours. What they offer the people at home in your family subscription is not the same thing they offer school districts. And I think it's worth noting that yes, that's a

141lot of money. And what would textbooks cost? So, we have to keep putting that back in because gosh, we look at all these computers. Well, books are expensive, too. >> I do um I echo my colleague's sentiment that technology is expensive. But I do want to draw attention to a few things. See in the line item three on page eight where it says new line sustainability plan as well as carts for middle school storage which is the second to last item the discussion of sustainability use meaning still having access but not necessarily onetoone takehome. So that was a discussion to save money to have middle school having access at school but not sending them home. So, that's a way that we can still utilize technology when when teachers need it for their classroom enhancements, but

142not sending it home, which is usually when the bulk of the let's just say breakage, damage, however we want to say it happens. And so I think, and this is where I would like Miss Britson to correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but between those two two uh line items, it's a way to be able to have a more sustainable environment and having access to technology, but not being a onetoone full-time home and at school with technology uh you utilization. I don't know if that's the right word. Um but Miss Brenton, is that kind of the the premise behind the sustainability plan to have access but not full time. Both >> the iPad storage actually is for it's a 10 iPad storage container basically that teachers can lock them up in the classroom. So it's one

143per Yep. One per K2 teacher and then they would have shared devices in there. And then the carts for middle schools, our elementary schools already have carts and that they're sharing. Those are for middle school because um we have we have learned that taking them home might not be the smartest thing at a middle school level and right now there are several middle schools that aren't taking them home and they have just um fabricated ways to store them and keep them they're just not safe. They're not in carts locked charging all the time. This is a way for us to have a sustainable technology plan versus just onetoone devices and say so this is this is a way that we can save money in the long term. That's why I'm trying that's trying because I'm

144I'm hearing my colleague sentiment of technology is expensive and so one of the ways that we're trying to cut back is saying let's just have it for access during the school day. >> It's also ensuring that we're good stewards of the technology and the money we have. If you would please Don, I know you just asked. Would you please resend the technology plan to everyone again? [clears throat] Thanks. >> So, I updated the plan after those meetings with you guys and so I will send that out to you. >> Mr. >> Yeah. Well, I would like to clarify that during our oneonone last week and previously this had been brought up and I thought we were aware of the fact that we were switching over to this middle school and elementary school usage in the

145school, not necessarily one in one. So um yeah, we just this is nothing that Dr. Barnes has not already explained to us and the practicalities to it. >> Thank you. >> And I just want to you know there have been a lot of if you go Google it and do it yourself. There's been a lot of studies coming out lately that says that that the learning through these means is not as good as it is by picking up a book. And if they've done studies on this, go check it out for yourself. Uh, everybody thinks that e-learning is the way to go, but matter of fact, the the the statistics show otherwise. So, it might be more cost effective, but in the end, what you want is kids who can learn better. Um, I would

146I would encourage you to to look it up yourself before our next meeting. Uh, it's good to hear that that Yeah, I I don't have any problems uh as far as a shared resource at the classroom. So, if we're going to get rid go away from the one-on-one model and uh go to this I'm more for that for sure. >> And just to clarify, I think we're going away from the one to one at the middle school and elementary school, not at the high school. The high school still, right? >> Yes. And and students are not on devices all day long at any of the levels. So, um at the elementary level, they all their math and language arts curriculum, they have books that they read. In their math curriculum, they have workbooks. at the

147middle school level. They also have workbooks for their curriculum um for both math and language arts. So, they are not on the devices all day long. >> Thank you. I was just going to echo that and just to ensure that anybody who's listening that our students are not on their devices all day long and I know that there's been great debate and perhaps our policy committee would like to pick that up again, but of do we need to have in policy, you know, time constraints for, you know, technology use throughout the day? We could break it up by leveling because I do hear what my colleague is saying, but it is it is not you go to school and you're on a computer all day. Nor would that be age appropriate in my opinion. But

148if that is a concern, I think that would be better dealt with in policy to to hash that out than right here. >> Miss, >> so I would agree that looking at policy constraints um would would be a good idea. I would be in favor of that. But I would ask the superintendent statewide, are the other superintendents talking to you about this issue? Because I am sympathetic to exactly what um my colleague across the way is saying, but to me the elephant is so big. I can't figure out how to bite it. We have a sustainability plan. Do we need to spend some time really digging into that? Um but you've got to have chatter at the state level because we can't be alone in this this this we add hardware and software expenses that

149escalate without us having any control whatsoever. >> Well, that that's what the sustainability plan is for. And I'm sorry to say this again, but if you have not had a chance to read it yet, I think some of your questions may be answered if you guys do. Um, yes, almost every district that I have talked to bought onetoone devices because of COVID because of with ESSER funds and are having this same sort of concern and issue. I would always encourage you before you decide to adjust or look at your policy, you need to talk to teachers and principles and the experts in the situation because I don't want you to create a policy for something that quite frankly I don't think is necessarily broken. >> And I'm going to share before I get to you

150guys, but Miss Mason and I were on a call with all the chairs and vice chairs uh recently and this actually came up where uh one I think it was Johnson County if I'm wrong. I think it was Johnson County actually the young lady said that um that they have Tuesdays are technology free Tuesdays >> and they just don't you know and in school they there's like this is you know you don't bring it up we don't bring it out and they do other forms hand you know uh of of learning all day for one day and that you know that's just a thought >> okay I I'll go ladies first >> um >> uh I don't know I might probably be the only person in here except maybe Dr. Barnes that has handled textbooks

151for a school district. I'm going back to before 2012 when they cut him out. Um it is it was extreme. Did you for the district? >> Yeah. >> Oh, not the district. >> I'm talking about the district, not the school. I'm talking about going to the to their annual fairs, spending millions of dollars, having the vendors go crazy over you and it was like the biggest thing in the year. Some other people, you remember this. Um and then things changed radically and they quit allowing us to even use funds to buy textbooks for about five years. And then technologies also come in big time. Reason I'm saying it is a combination. Teachers don't use just straight technology. But when it comes to updating curriculum and um and being able to instruct kids, no doubt technology

152is so much more cost-effective and so much more current. So when you combine the two, that's where it's at. That's what we're doing right here. We really I think we are. I love the idea what Johnson County is doing. But what I'm saying textbooks, believe me, that's an extreme. You think this is You think that our technology is expensive? You should have seen the kinds of budgets that we used to go to textbooks and they got outdated so fast and destroyed and damaged. I wasn't kidding when I said they ended up in the toilet sometimes. >> And I think a lot of this is about infrastructure. It's not about onetoone. So you may be getting lost in the weeds just a tad because this is really about creating the sustainability for the classroom instruction not

153for one to one devices. Don, is that fair to say? >> Yeah, it's a combination. Yes, >> one thing I haven't heard and I I echo the sentiments of uh many of my colleagues here. I know that I'm on screens too much during the day. I I think I've got a little bit of shoulder tendonitis from uh working on that darn phone all day. Um but I think we need to be sensitive when we talk about okay not every child needs one. We have certain families who have computers at home and we have certain families who do not and we don't want to create an unlevel playing field by making you know by saying well let's just keep them here in the school and sometimes they use them. I'm glad that in high schools it's

154one to one because they do need them. And we also need to make sure that we're keeping a a steady playing field. Everyone has opportunity that we don't create a two two-tier system on whether or not you have internet access to home. All right, I'm going to try again. Anybody have anything else? Okay, this time I didn't miss anybody. Okay, so we do have a motion to accept the capital outlay budget uh request and a second. All in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. All oppose, like sign. Passes 70. >> Okay. So, the only thing I see left on our out uh our listing of things to do today is the word adjournment. >> Okay. >> I move to second. >> Okay. We have a motion. We have a second. >> Okay. Any

155discussion? >> It is a beautiful day. >> Yeah. >> All in favor of adjourning at this time, please signify by saying I. I. >> I. Three off. >> All opposed. Please lay sign. >> Nay. >> Okay, there you [laughter] go. Six. Still six to one. We are journ. Thank you all. That's all I got.