OCPS | 2025-08-19 School Board Work Session

001Good afternoon and welcome to our school board work session which has been scheduled for today, Tuesday, August 19th, 2025 for the purpose of discussing school start times. let me take just a moment to remind board members and everyone in the chambers and myself to silence your cell phones and also a note to the public although I don't think we doesn't appear we have any members of the public participating. So I don't think I need to mention but I will that this is not a regularly scheduled board meeting. Therefore there will be no public comments. You can't hear me? Oh well. Okay, let's Should we start over again? I think we you can hear a little bit. Can you hear me? Better. All right. for the for our viewing audience, because this is not a regularly

002scheduled board meeting and no action will be taken. There will be no open public comment period prior to this meeting. So, we will begin. And let me take a quick roll call. Member Ferrant. Thank you. Member Douglas here. Member Vanos here. Member Gallo. Good afternoon. Member Salamanca. Good afternoon. Member Fowler. Good afternoon. And I believe vice chair is calling in. Let me check. Vice Chair, do we have you on the call? Yes. Hi. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. And I hope you're feeling better soon, but we appreciate you participating virtually. And just a reminder again to myself and our fellow board members that when speaking into the microphone, you have to speak directly into it, extremely close to it so that our view and Orange TV viewers can hear us clearly. In a minute, we're going

003to take a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance. And I do want to acknowledge for a moment of silence that we lost a cherished member of our team, David Wheeler. I'm going to turn to Roberto to make a few comments. I've known David since I started here, but I know he's been here longer. and I know that everyone who knows him is very saddened by his loss. Thank you, chair. Good afternoon, chair, board members. Appreciate you taking the time to to make a comment about the passing of David. David was a dear coworker, you know. I was here when when he started he was here I think almost 17 years with the district going up the ranks to the point that he became senior director of procurement services you know he was

004over service of the on the army got deployed twice probably army will hopefully they're not mad at us but he he used to email us when he was deployed he never told us where he was so that he was confidential but I think some people didn't even know that he got deployed because he was that type of person that even when he was away on his deployment, he was still checking on his his co-workers. He's a is a big blow for us is a news. It was unexpected. You know, he was just 40 years old when he was taken. So, we really appreciate all the thoughts and everything from everybody. I mean, when when talking about him is the main thing is that I don't want to forget anything. Not so much what I can

005say, but what what I can omit from saying for such a great person. Yeah. Thank you so much. Mr. Beco was telling me just a moment ago about the number of of initiatives that he brought forward to to the district. Mr. Beeco. Yes. You know the probably you get to you get to use of some of them. you know I remember that at one point the board brought to our attention that they wanted to minimize the use of paper in our in our district. So he initiated the use of docuine which is the routing software that we use in order to sign documents. Then in order to improve processes he also brought in smart sheets that he that is widely used on the district as well. He he left his mark in so many different

006things. He always looked at things that just because we done it this way all the time we don't have to keep on doing it the same way. He was very innovative. he really was looking for us to improve. His team very well regarded in the in the industry you know in the council GR city school he was the one that was pretty much coordinating every time they had the conference. He was the one managing the procurement procurement group nigp. He was he got recognized and he was nominated as as a manager of the year. This is like the like national governmental procurement association. He established a group here locally in Florida of all procurement officials. So believe me I his age and the accolades that I can tell you about him. He was just he

007was so I saw definitely a bright future for him even though if he didn't have it already based on what everything that he had accomplished. So receiving such a unexpected and sudden news about his loss is is really a hard hit for the team. So thank you. Thank you Mr. PCO and thank you for sharing so much more about David than we ever knew. David is survived by his sister and his mother and father. I believe that is his family. Mr. PJO, did you want to comment? Yeah, there's there's always that connection. And you know, we say that he's OCPS family. His his mom retired from facility services a couple years back. His dad used to work in transportation. Actually, Bill worked with him when he was here. He's the director of transportation in Noah

008school district. So that's another school district that is he's a is also dealing with a loss of somebody in their family. and sorry and his his sister teaches in one of our schools. Is that amazing? A lot of connections to OCPS by following him. Yeah. Thank you. All right. please as we rise for a moment of silence, join me in And now for the pledge. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So, before we begin, I have one observation, just one general observation. We have so many people that work here, especially at the senior management side, that we work with day in and day out, and we know next to nothing about

009them. David Willer is a great example. What I know is professionally he's he's kind. he's always knows what he's talking about. I feel very competent in very confident in his competency, but I didn't know a fraction of what I just learned. including his his service in the military. So I share that with you. just yesterday, member Vanos and member Ferrant and I were at the swearing in service for three of our law enforcement officers. And again, I don't know about you all, but I was like, "Wow, I didn't know that." It was constantly, "I didn't know that. I didn't know that." And I was so amazed at how qualified our law enforcement officers are. I don't I it's not that I didn't think they were, but I had no idea the depth of their experience.

010I mean, these three individuals had each served in law enforcement and like 30 for like 30 years and then came here. And I'm like, that's amazing. When most people, no, I shouldn't say, you know, of a lot of people that are like, okay, I got 20 years and I get to retire. And you know, they just, it's so cool. And I won't go into the details. I would love to, but we don't have time for that. But the only other people that I think we really have an opportunity to get to know their background is when the superintendent brings forward her appointees for AP and for principal and then we get just a spec just a glimpse of their background. And anyway, I just not that not that we're going to have a whole ceremony

011recognizing everybody's background, but I wouldn't mind finding another way. Yeah. To know a lot of times when I first started, I would say, "Tell me a little bit. How did you end up here?" But, I've have since stopped asking that and I wish I hadn't. So, with that, I'm going to turn the meeting over to Dr. Vasquez as I get my Oh, no. I'm sorry. so that I don't forget which I just did. let me start with Mr. Palarini for an announcement he needs to make. thank you, Madam Chair. Members of the board, pursuant to section 286.011 011 subsection 8 Florida statutes. An entity may meet in private with its attorney to discuss pending litigation to which the entity is presently a party before a court or administrative agency provided certain conditions are met, including

012the requirement that a transcript that the executive session be made part of the public record upon the conclusion of the litigation. In this case, I'm requesting the school board's advice concerning the following pending litigation. Penguin Random House at All versus Ben Gibson at all. Case number six col2 24- CV-1573- CEM-RN on August 26th, 20125 immediately after the conclusion of the work session set for 12:30. The executive session will be closed meeting held in conference room E at the ELC will take approximately 1 hour. A notice has been drafted for posting. Those in attendance will be Terresa Jacobs chair, Angie Gallo, vice chair, school board members Maria Salamanca, Alicia Ferrant, Anne Douglas, Vicky Elaine Felder, Stephanie Vanos, Melissa Bird, actually member Bird's the vice chair and member Gallow is not. I apologize for that error. Dr.

013Maria F. Vasquez, Dr. Mike Armrewster, if Dr. Vasquez is absent on that day, myself and a court reporter. Thank you, Madam Chair. What was the date again, Mr. Palmeri? It's next Tuesday's board meeting between the work session and the school board meeting, August 26th. All right. Thank you, Mr. Pomerini. Boy, it really does make a difference. This mic, I must have the most sensitive mic and the hardest to turn on. And I don't know if that's by design. I'm kidding. so now let me turn the meeting over to Dr. Vasquez. thank you Madam Chair. this afternoon we are going to hear from staff related to school start times. as you are aware there was legislation that had passed a few years ago related to school start times especially impacting the high school start time and

014the middle school start times. since then the legislation has been revised and today you will hear our staff's recommendations on changing the start times from the high schools starting first to the elementaryaries starting first. Additionally, the legislation requires that we gather input from stakeholders as part of the decision-making process. So after the presentation the board will we will engage in conversations around this topic and we will need direction as to how you would best like us to go about engaging our stakeholders on feedback regarded to the possible change. With that I am going to turn it over to Mr. Pacheco our chief operations officer and he will introduce the team again. Thank you. Good afternoon, chair, superintendent Vasquez, school board members. Let's see. Can you hear me? Well, no. Maybe now better. Yeah, better. Okay,

015I'll try to to get the microphone closer. So, thank you so much again for having us here this afternoon. We're here today to discuss the legislative requirements for later start times for high schools and middle schools as stated by the superintendent. Our agenda this afternoon aims to provide a comprehensive understanding of these requirements and their effects. We will begin with an overview. Let me turn to the agenda. I apologize. We're going to begin with an overview of the various House and Senate bills and how they how to comply with the requirements. Next, we will ch transportation operational information by examining the factors that influence the creation of bus runs and bus routes. We also have benchmark from some Florida and out of state school districts that have implemented or have later school later high school

016start times. Additionally, we will present possible scenarios for the implementation of later start times for high schools or middle schools in our school district taking into account the implications of each. We will discuss we will discuss potential actions that will need to take place and finally we will address any questions or comments you might have to determine our next steps. Today the presentation will be conducted by Bill Wen, senior director of transportation services. He will provide insight on how changes in our school start time need to be analyzed from a transportation operational standpoint. and Mary Bridges, senior senior executive director from student services will present information on how changes in start times need to be examined from an educational perspective. First, let's look at the legislation that has driven us to be here today. This

017initial section of the presentation will review the legislation requirements that we need to examine. Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry. House Bill 733 and Senate Bill 1112 passed back in 2023 mandate a later start time for high school and middle schools. The bill required that no later than July 1st, 2026, the instructional day for all public and charter middle schools must begin no earlier than 8:00 a.m. and for high schools no earlier than 8:30 a.m. During this legislative session, House Bill 261 and Senate Bill 296 were introduced to amend this requirement. The updated leg language on House Bill 261 and how Senate Bill 296 amended the mandatory requirement that middle and high schools start by the specified times beginning by July 1st, 2026. The amended language states that a district school board shall be deemed in compliance

018with the requirements if the school is if the district school board submits to the Florida Department of Education by June 1st, 2026 a report in a format prescribed by the department that includes at a minimum all the following. The start times for of elementary, high school, and middle school. Documentation of strategies considered to implement a later school start time for middle school and high schools within the school district, including the number of board meetings, public hearings, and opportunities for parents for parents to provide input and discuss the strategies. A description of the impact of implementing the school start time requirements, including the financial impact for the district. identify any unintended consequences to the school district, students, and the community by implementing the school t start time requirements. The bill went into effect on July 1st,

0192025 based on the governor's approval. Now, I'll hand it over to Bill W who will provide you some more background information on transportation. Good afternoon. Good. Can everybody hear me? Testing one too. Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Superintendent Vazquez, fellow board members. like to just share some information on how to for logistics for transportation for creating a bus runs. Try these. How about now? Oh, that's better. Yeah, thank you. So, we wanted to present some information on how bus routes and bus runs are created. transportation is required for those residing 2 miles or more from their zone school. And when we create a run, which is from home to school or school to home, a number of factors are considered when we create them. One are the number of bus stops. so we can have anywhere

020as few as one or two to as many as 10 depending upon where the stops are located. If we're at an apartment complex, one or two stops may fill the bus up and bring the route to school. As the location of the bus stops, we try to create arterial routing to stay on the main roads as we can to minimize the time that it takes to bring the kids in. We will go into neighborhoods if that makes it safer and is also time efficient as well. of the length of the run, we try to keep those within 40 to 55 minutes. So that one we can bring kids to school and use the bus for the next tier for the schools as well. And again, the number of students also impact the length of the

021run as well. Next slide. So for bus routes, those are a collection of runs and the bus routes we have, we tried to create them that each bus will carry a high school run, a elementary run and a middle school run so that we can minimize the number of buses. But there are some factors that impact how the bus routes are created. One are the attendance zones. The larger the attendance zone, the longer the runs will be and also the more buses that we will need. And usually the high schools have the largest attendance zones and the elementarymentaries have the smallest attendance zones. The window of operation is the time between tiers. And for us, we required 40 55 to 60 minutes between tiers to allow us to pick up students, drop them off, and

022then the buses to go back out to pick up the next group of students to get them to school on time. That's both for the morning and afternoon. Again, we require 60 minutes to give us the effective time so that we can do it and be on time for the rest of the tiers. Another factor that impacts how we build bus routes are the length of day for schools. High schools are seven hours in length. Middle schools are 6 hours and 34 minutes in length and elementary schools are 6 hours and 15 minutes in length. And currently we have 21 elementary schools with an extra hour of instruction for reading and math. And then the number of buses for each tier are impacted if we don't have a bus that can transport students from all

023three tiers. So the factor for implementation of a later start time. So right now with the current bill, middle schools can start no earlier than 8. High schools can start no earlier than 8:30 to us to minimize the cost and be costneutral. we must have 60 minutes between tiers to allow buses to be able to transport all three tiers to minimize the number of buses necessary and again to remain costneutral. With that in mind, in order to remain that elementaryaries could possibly be on the first tier, which means we'll be picking them up before 8:00 a.m. And then also determine which will be the next alternatives for the second and third tiers, whether that be middle school second or high school second. And then finally to evaluate the length of day for middle schools and

024high schools. right now because the middle the length of day for middle schools is shorter than high schools. We're late getting to the middle schools in the afternoon as it as it currently stands. And we'll see in later future slides that many districts have similar length of day for their middle schools and high schools as well. So factors to consider for each of the scenarios that we create. ninth grade centers will need a 10-minute earlier arrival time or departure time to allow us to pick up at the ninth grade center and then the buses will go to the main campus. special schools where the start times may not be flexible. We have two elementary schools that are next to each other and Metro West elementaryaries where the bell times are separated by about 30 minutes

025so that we reduce the amount of parent traffic in that area. Also, K8s are another op consideration as well, whether we put the elementaryaries at their tier and then middle schools at that tier, thus requiring two trips to the school, or do we have the elementarymentaries start at the middle school tiers as well. the half day at preks and other vocational programs, if the times are changed, that may impact their when their programs are held and conducted. And also the ESC high school transition programs. We take them to work sites. Again, that may impact their ability and the organization's ability to accept them at those times as well. And finally, the technical technical campuses start times. Right now, we transport high school students after we drop them off to the technical schools. And if we

026have the high school start later, that may also impact non-K12 attendees at our tech centers as well. Oops. So this slide shows the potential or starting orders or the orders of the tiers. elementary can start first or middle school starting first or high school starting first. But please keep in mind if the middle schools start first then the first tier can start no earlier than 8. And if high schools were to be the first tier, they may not start earlier than 8:30, which means everyone will be ending later in the day. So when we did this, we looked at what some of the other school districts are doing locally. We have Hillsboro County and Bvard County. they're already in compliance with the current legislation. They did this before it was required. As you can see

027with Hillsboro, the lengths of day for high school and middle school are similar and elementary is shorter as the similar same as ours is 6 hours and 15. they moved to have the elementary school tier first as the buses were always late in the afternoons getting to the elementary schools because there was only 27 minutes between dismissal from high school to elementary school. So the recommendation was to move elementary schools first so that they would be on time in getting to u the high schools in Bvard County. They also have close to an hour between tiers in the afternoons and again their high school and middle school tiers are similar in length. in the morning. You'll notice that the high school and elementary school is only 30 minutes, but I think the geography of Bvard

028County permits that and also with the number of buses available to accommodate that. As a member of the Council of the Great City Schools, we were able to look at some of the other school districts in the country are already in compliance with House Bill 733. And here you can notice that most of them have the similar length of day for high school and middle school and some also elementary school as well. And again, some schools have elementary starting as early as 7:25 in the morning. Some lessons learned from other districts when we spoke to them about their change. One was to provide ample time to promote and obtain feedback from the stakeholders. I think that was for those of you who were here back in 2008 2009. we did not really have time to

029promote and to have the community make their adjustments. They also suggested we engage all stakeholders to include parents, students, school staff and also the community partners particularly for those organizations that employ our high school students in the afternoon. Also, we were to review the cost of implementing and also reoccurring costs to make the change. Again, we needed to be costneutral in order to implement this and make this successful. And finally, review the ability to provide consistent transportation services. with the nationwide driver shortage continuing, it's been a challenge to get sufficient drivers to accommodate more students. So, it's important that we look at how can we provide consistent service and having the hour in between tiers allows us the flexibility if we have to make two trips to remain on schedule and on time. Before we

030move on, let me for Can you hear me? Okay. For, especially for our new board members in front of you, you have this little black thing and there's a white knob. And if you turn the white knob as far as you can to the right, it will be easier to hear our speakers. okay. I think you and I are sharing this one, member Thanos. All right. Okay. Thank you. I'm let me I'm sorry. Member Gallo, do you have a question at this time? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So, my department was tasked with looking at those restrictions primarily that we needed to have the hour in between the three tiers and to see what type of start and ending times we could create for our three levels. So, as you see in in

031the blue, we have our current bell times. And right now, elementary is 6 hours and 15 minutes, our high schools are 7 hours, and our middle schools are 6 hour and 34 minutes. That's the student time, and all of our teachers work 7 and 1/2 hours. So, as we looked at the possible bell SK schedules and keeping that hour in between, if we put elementary first, then they could start at 7:45 and end at 2:00 p.m., which would give them 6 hours and 15 minutes. That's the same amount of time that they have now. So, their school day would stay the same. However, we do want to point out that if their school is starting at 7:45, we like to drop them off at least 20 minutes early in order to be able to have

032breakfast and get to class on time. And so, they could be out at the bus stops as early as 6:55. If they're really far out, it could be even 6:45. we saw Hillsboro, we talked with them last week and they said that they had elementary school kids out as early as 6:15 at some of their bus stops. if if elementary did start at 7:45 and end at 2, the high schools could start at 8:40. That gives us about 55 minutes in between and they would end at 3:40 and they would stay at their current 7 hours for that 7 period day. And then the middle schools again having to have at least that close to an hour. Middle schools could start at 9:35, but in order to have an hour in the afternoon so that

033the buses have time to get there, they would not be ending until 4:35. And that would make the middle school day longer. So, right now it's 6 hours and 34 minutes. It would be the same as high school, which is 7 hours. And as we look at some of our concerns, that concern would be that teachers at the middle school right now go into work at 8:35 and have almost an hour before school starts for additional planning and meeting times and collaboration time. and so that would be taken away from those middle schools and be like our high schools which right now the teachers before and after school do not have much time for any meetings. So we went through and looked at the concerns for each of the levels. So, as we're looking at

034elementary school, the major concern I think we have or I should say considerations, so these are things that if we do it this way, we would have to consider these would be the safety at the bus stop due to 7:00 a.m. or even earlier pickup. we definitely looked at the before and after school care needs. students would be out at 2:00 p.m. and high school would not get out till 3:40. So some high school siblings were you know right now look after their elementary school siblings and so the elementary school kids would be out early. the impact on the school staff a lot of teachers and school staff work in the elementary schools specifically so they are you know there for their other older kids and things of that nature. And then that extra hour

035of school time, we have those 21 schools that have the extra hour this year. that's not a state mandate any longer. And so with our budget discussions, it could be that's not a factor if we were to choose to not have that next year. But if we chose to still have that extra hour, we'd have to have another element and another level in there to get those kids to their schools. and then the extended days for elementary students may be too fatiguing because if they are starting at 6:45 or 6:55 and their parents put them in extended day until 5 or 6, that's a very long time for them to be out at school and or daycare and not be at home. For our middle schools, we definitely know there'd be an impact to sports

036and club participation with them ending at 4:35. that's very late to then have sports andor clubs and be able to get home for dinner or homework or even just getting into bed. and for the staff and the coaches that makes a much longer evening for them as well. the traffic at dismissal time, we know for pickup and for the buses that they would be in rush hour traffic at that time. So that could lead to longer bus trips to get those kids to their home. I touched on the decrease in teacher planning time for the middle schools because we would be making the instructional time for students longer. And then the weather delays could cause very late dismissals. So you know if it's 4:35 and there's lightning or there's rain and they have to stay

037longer again they may not be getting home till 6:30 7 o'clock. high schools have some of the same concerns that impact to the sports and club participations for students and the staff and the coaches. impact a student working after hour after school hours again they would be getting out at 3:40. So even getting to work at 4 would probably be a struggle. So they just would not have as many work hours in the evening if they were getting out that late. the effects of scheduling Orange Technical College dual enrollment classes. So again, those would have to be scheduled later and Orange Technical College would have to redo all of their times and their sessions, which could affect adults that aren't even in the K12 system. and then as we said, not being able to assist

038with the younger siblings. again, a lot of high school kids do babysit and look after their younger siblings. And the last is just some concerns for really all three levels. some schools don't have lighting on the fields. For instance, for the middle school, if they were to have a track meet after 4:35, it just really would not be possible without lighting on their fields. the impact on the school cleaning schedules right now at the middle and high schools, the cleaning staff still there quite late at night. So if their schools ending later, they would be there, you know, even later than they are now. and impact on lunch times. If the elementary schools start so early, their lunch would be early. And then if they did stay into attend extended care, they may not be

039home for dinner until, you know, very late. So those are all the considerations we felt that we would want to bring up and you may have more as you start your discussions. And I'll give this back to Roberto. Thank you, Miss Bridges. So this light in front of you just summarizes the key action and considerations that we shared with you this afternoon to facilitate discussion of our next steps. First implementation of co of costneutral school time changes will require evaluating the school day length the number of class periods tier structure to determine any modifications or impact of service delivery. We will need to define the strategy to gather community input. The strategy for stakeholder feedback is to ensure that any proposed changes is well informed and supported. We must assess the implementation cost and the

040phys the feasibility of transportation as these factors can significantly impact our operations. Determining and coordinating any any type of discussion with our staff on any changes on their schedule. Lastly, we must report to the Florida Department of Education by June 1st, 2026. Again, each of these items is interconnected and will require careful planning and execution to achieve our goals effectively. At this time, I'll hand it over back to the superintendent for comments. Thank you so much Roberto, Mary, and Bill. Appreciate the time invested in bringing this recommendation to the board. A couple of just key elements. First and foremost, the plan had to be costneutral. We know that our financial outlook right now is a little shaky and while there may have been other times that would not have the elementary students out as early,

041it would significantly impact our budget. second, as a reminder, we need recommendations on how you would like for us to move forward in gathering stakeholder feedback. If you were lucky enough to be with us when we did this the first time, board members had community meetings that were tied to the strategic plan roll out. Isn't that ironic that it's happening at the same time? and we offered the opportunity for the community at that town hall to provide us input via a survey. We also had survey links available on our website. We have the ability to push out thought exchange to all of our stakeholders and gather input in that fashion as well. So there's a combination of ways that we can do that and we are ready to proceed at the board's direction. Dr. Dasquez

042just one if you could clarify one point when you said the first time we did this are you talking about when we actually changed or you talking about when we surveyed the board and didn't change so about five years ago we looked at changing the times. Yeah. Okay. That's what I thought you were referring to. There was actually a time when we did change the times. So I wasn't sure if you were referring to that or this most recent time. All right. Let me begin with member Vanos. Thank you, Madam Chair. I actually remember the time five years ago when when this was discussed and I remember being in a middle school and member Caster Deno was presenting presenting it. but actually what I remember from that time was that the suggestions were middle schools

043were starting in the tens. So they were starting at like 10:15 or like really really late even later than they are now. So, but I do remember that. thank you for the presentation and thank you for all this input. I did want to ask just because I saw like the pages and pages of concerns. Are there any benefits to having later start times for high schoolers? Bo member Vanos. we cannot argue with with the science. The science have stated that later start times does help students with their educational experience. So definitely we're not here to to dispute that fact. We're just here to offer considerations in case the board would like to pursue some type of change. you know you saw it from the two areas from the operational side on transportation. We the only

044thing that we will ask is that whatever change we make we do have that hour in order to be able to service and of course from the educational side that part of that we'll have to add some time to the to the middle school. you know when we started having the discussion with the team we did put together a group and I and that's why they said if we do this what do you think will affect you? what what are some considerations and I and the least of item is that's what it came about. I don't think we pursue it as far as as as the benefit of it because the benefit of it has been stated on why they believe we believe it is beneficial for later start time for high schoolers and middle

045schoolers. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I just I think because this presentation is available on our website, right? People can access it. So I think I think it's just important that as we put out this information that we're putting out like why we would even consider that you know why we why we'd even look at what are the benefits like why would we consider you know changing everything and changing schedules and even looking into if this is even worth it. So, I just I think it's important to to make sure that people understand that. I did have a couple of questions. the first one and I was I believe during our conversation you said that because I know one of the concerns for elementary schools would be students waiting for the bus. So, how many elementary

046students take the bus or do you have a percentage of elementary students that take the bus? Oh, yes. Yeah, we look we are transporting about 84% of all eligible students for elementary students. That's about 17,000 students that we're transporting at the elementary level and there's about 76,000 total elementary students. So, it's a small percentage. So, 84% of elementary students take the bus. Eligible elementary there's we transport a little over 17,000 and there's a little over 20,000 that are eligible for for the bus. Oh, so this is just people who are outside of the two-mile, correct? Okay. So, do you just have an overall number of like what percentage of elementary students are taking the bus out of all of the elementary students? 17,000 students. So, that' be about 22% if I me my memory serves

047me correctly. Got it. Okay. thank you for that. and I know that you had pointed out in this conversation that if we moved the elementary times and elementary school got out earlier, we would have to have a longer after like kind of extended day program for elementary students, which makes sense because most people aren't done working at 2. But do we currently provide early morning care for students at our schools before school starts like right now since it doesn't start till 8:45? Yes. I think normally most of them start at 7:00 a.m. So they would not need to okay to have that. So it just kind of be replacing early morning care with after school care. Okay. Sorry Dr. B. So that would depend. Okay. because there may be now students that based on let's

048say the parent is teaching at the high school level who gets out early and then they're able to pick up their child at the elementary school. Now, if the high school is starting later, they may then have to put them in in ch in after afterare where currently they may not even be in morning care because maybe the high schooler or there's someone there with them beforehand. So, we could do try and do an analysis, but it's I don't want to say that it's one that it's just a swap. Oh, right. Right, right, right. I just mean that in general like we might not have to do before care for elementary school if it starts earlier. But we would most we would have to add on to the day. Yeah. Okay. thank you for that.

049as far as middle school, one of the concerns that was that continues to be brought up is lighting the fields, which I just it which does seem like a concern and you know I support sports, so I support lighting our fields generally. I mean, it's interesting that we're really only pushing the middle school release time to by 30 minutes, so it's not really that long. But, curious about how much that would cost if we did light our middle school fields. board member Vanos, I was able to to follow up with the facilities team based on your question, and I had a, of course, these just an estimate. they believe that per field is going to be around $425,000. If you do about a 10% contingency based on the timing of it and maybe some specificity

050of the projects and based on the number of middle schools and K8s, they estimate approximately about $24 million to add a lining to our middle schools and K8s. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for finding that out. I know that was a short turnaround time, so I appreciate that. Actually, you have to thank Mr. Salini's team. They were the ones that were able to put the number so quickly together. Thank you. I appreciate that. Oh, and then I also wanted to address from the middle school when you mentioned that the teachers would lose their planning time. I guess the alternative would be if we could bar if there was some kind of bargaining agreement with the you know with the teachers union that the day could be extended that would relieve that issue right

051Dr. Vasquez. Yeah. so I want to clarify they're not losing their planning time because by contract they are required to have planning time currently at the elementary and the middle school. There are two blocks of time. One is used for the mandatory or the bargained planning time and then the other one allows for common planning. it gives them an opportunity to, you know, talk to parents and so the schedule would now be reflective of what the high school has that they have a little bit of time in the morning and then they have their bargained required planning time that is just their planning time available. Okay. And if there was any extension of the day, the teacher day, yes, that would have to be bargain and that would also cost money. Okay, that's what I

052thought. Thank you. And actually, I just wanted to go back to one thing. I'm going to go back to the fields really quick. The fields that would be that would come from the capital budget, right? Putting the lighting on fields. I'm I'm unable to answer the question about the funding. Okay. If if if we can pick where the No. so again we have projects already aligned to the projected dollars. So any if we were to move forward with this that means that some items may have to come off that are currently in the in the plan. Okay. I just want to make sure like we wouldn't be for example just as a general matter like not pulling money from like operationally teacher salaries to put lights on fields. Right. Yeah, superintendent. Sorry. No, no. just

053one clarification because I saw a note here that the team included that we need to be cognizant of that sometimes some areas or developments do have restriction or where we can add lights. I know we were talking about that depending on which school it is, some schools were not allowed to add lighting to them. So, I just wanted to make you aware that even the calculation might include all of them. if we have to go through the process of adding lighting to some of our schools based on the restrictions of the development might prevent us to add to add lighting to some schools. Okay, got it. Thank you. And I'll I'll just end with one last question, let other people ask their questions, but the last one I'll say is it is this something that

054we is a change in start time something that we could pilot in some schools and not all? Is that a possibility? Oh, that's one. That's part A. Transportation. May I? So, given the shortage of bus drivers that we currently have, I do not see us being able to pilot in a large number of schools. Additionally, it would require bargaining because of change in the teacher workday as well as our support staff. I would not recommend that we pilot for those reasons. But if that's something the board would want us to look at, we would. Okay. Okay. And then my that part B of the last question is there a possib I'm thinking for transportation is there a possibility where we could alter start times by area. So in other words like maybe not elementary schools

055would start at the same time. you know kind of depending on the area. I mean, I ask that because I know, for example, when my daughter started kindergarten, she started a school that did not start at the normal time. So, I know there's there's already there already was at some point some variation in start time. So, is that you know, is that a possibility or something to think about? We would probably need to look at the areas where that could be considered right now with a start times consistent with all three tiers and makes routing a lot easier to do, but we can certainly take a look at that. Okay, just a question. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Thank you, Member Vanos. Member Gallo. Thank you, Madame Chair. so I I have a

056couple of questions and again, thank you for this presentation. I feel like this is kind of round two because we've been here before and we did take it out to the community and it was not it was overwhelmingly not popular with our commu community based on the surveys and the community meetings that I attended. they didn't want the change. with that being said, I that was in two, I think 2019 because it was right after I was first elected and at the time we did it because it was a priority of one of the board members and they asked us to do it. so things may have changed. Our community may feel differently than they did back then. So I'm all for doing community meetings to going out because I'll be perfectly honest. If the

057community wants us to change the times, then I support the change of the times. If the community doesn't want us to change the times, then I support us keeping the times the way they are. The research is crystal clear on the benefits to our middle school students. And I do understand some of the concerns with our elementary students. I share those concerns. But yet Bvard and Hillsboro and Marian County cuz Marian County has later start times too has been able to manage it and figure it out. And to my knowledge, unless you know something different than I do, I haven't heard of children being harmed in Hillsboro. I haven't heard of any child being hit or or I mean I would imagine if there was a lot of incidences they would probably revert back because

058they're they're no longer mandated to do the early start times and they've had it. Hillsboro was the county that we looked at back in 2019 because their start times were later back then. So, I'm of the mindset that if Hillsboro, who is a larger district than we are and has very similar demographics to Orange County, is able to implement later start times for the benefit of our students and high school students and then they've been able to do it for what how many years now? Seven years. then we should also be able to make it work. I know that the legislature has really been pushing AI with the platform that we use like in running our bus routes and all that. I I think I just saw something in the notes that we're looking at

059a new platform or extending a platform that we use for buses. I think that's going to be on the agenda on Tuesday. So, I don't know if that has AI in it or if we've looked at platforms that have AI that can help run our bus systems, but I would be interested in knowing that. Also, high school teachers, do we pay high school teachers more because they teach a longer day? Dr. Baskin, no. The instructional I'm sorry, the teacher workday is the same at all levels. the time the amount of hours and minutes that they work. What is different is the student contact time currently as our schedules are are done. And when we negotiate with the union, do we negotiate the teachers out separately based on primary and secondary? No, but if there's a

060change to their schedule, that would be impact bargaining. because let's say you have a I'll use a high school teacher that has picked high school because she is able then to pick up her children at the elementary school and now if we're changing their start time that their work time that is an item that we would impact bargain it's not going to c I don't believe it would cost us any money but it's a matter of letting them know we would obviously allow if they wanted, you know, to switch, let's say they preferred middle school, if they were certified in elementary, but because it would be a change to their their their work environment, it would be impact bargain. And I want to echo for us because there isn't a cost associated, we're fine. If

061if the community wants us to switch, we're we're able to do that at with very little effort on our part, but it would require us to inform our employees because some of them would have a significant shift or would have may have to make arrangements that they're going to stay where they are or the opportunity to go to a school where the schedule better aligns. Thank you, Dr. Vasqueos. I think that's where a long leadin time comes into play so we have time not just to talk to our community but to talk to our teachers and the impact that it has on our teachers because those impacts are real and we do need to consider them. I'm just I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around impact bargaining because I've never seen anything

062in the contract that says for elementary, middle, and high schools the different times and what those times will be. Like, and maybe I've missed it. Maybe it's anou, maybe it's something else. But it's just in my brain when we go to bargain or we bargain we're bargaining for the collective unit of the teachers and not by grade level. Mr. Palmer. So remember there we have collectively bargained on the extra hour of reading schools. So we've done that number one. Number two, so for example, impact bargaining in this case. Say you had a high school teacher that worked the hours because they liked getting out at 2:30 and now they're going to be getting out at 3:15 or whatever the hour is. The union may come to us and do things like, "Hey, we want to

063impact bargain." And what we want is for those teachers who are impacted with that kind of switch, we want them to have the right of first refusal on a transfer or before anybody else gets hired into the position or something like that. So, it's not necessarily, you know, how the workday is structured for those teachers, but it's different things like, hey, this is impacting our membership. We want them to be able to go someplace different first before we hire somebody else to do it. That's the kind of things that you would see. Okay. Thank you. And like I said, this would impact everybody, not just our students and our families, but our teachers. So, we do have to do due diligence and make sure that we bring them in on the conversation to see where

064they land or what they're at. so the AI question, I'll let you answer that now. Yes. U just all three questions. I wrote them down so that I didn't forget to address it. in regards to the comparison to Hillsboro, yeah, in some instances we're very similar as far as size. some geography might be a little bit different again you know and I think is a it was noted when Miss Bridges was doing her presentation we did say concerns but really we just want to make the board board aware of these things we don't want you to make any decision without us as a role to say you know you be aware of these factor based on these each one of these scenarios for us transportation our bus drivers actually will get up a little bit

065later. So I think they will be happier if they have a later start start time for the for the elementary school. As long as we have that hour that which allow us to really provide the services that we need to provide the sequence of who goes first or who goes last does not affect us operationally. The bus drivers are pretty much going to pretty much work about the same amount of time during the day. again based on that as far as the the item that you that you mentioned about AI the item that we have on the board is just an amendment because the yearly subscription is going up and some other features that we have. We did migrate to a new routing software a couple of years back. The routing software does provide scenarios.

066I will have to go back to to see how much of AI is done. you know, AI in the area of routing and this is my personal opinion is it works on a perfect in a perfect world and routing is much as a science that is an art. You know, it might tell you to take 50 at 5:00 in the afternoon. If you're a local, you know that you don't want to take highway 50 at 5:00 in the afternoon, right? They don't know that. They just know that's the easiest way. I think school district a couple years back they went completely with what the AI told them to do and they had some some things that they needed to go back and pretty much redo some of the routes because of that piece. It is

067learning is like anything the information that you put in the information that is available they're going to put out our software does that for us. they do provide what they believe it is the best possible route. Then our team kind of tweaks it and that's why you see some of the bus drivers earlier in the school year doing their practice runs because they go back to the to the routing team and they say hey you know you told me going through that road but there's work being done on that road or there's only one lane or it's very tight. So again, it has to, like I said, is an art and a science is the science. It will do it based just like you put your GPA, you know, your you have a GPA in

068your car, GPS, it gives you a GPS, sorry, GPS in your car, your car and it will tell you to go through this road. And one time mine has me coming off the highway, go to a side road, and then jump in the highway again. Yeah. It just gave me the straight line. Was it the most the shortest line? Yes. but I could have just stayed on the highway and probably take me about the same amount of time or less. So, that is the piece of it. so, I just wanted to address but yeah, we're we're we're all about technology. We're all about looking at a base to to improve it. You know, right now the district has has been able to make as compact as possible our routes. You know, we're transporting about 50,000

069students. we have about 500 routes. At one point we had upwards of 900 drivers doing the transporting for us. So we believe me that's a team that has learned how to make the most out of the limited resources that we have. Yes. No, I totally understand and agree. So I appreciate that. do we know when track season is? When does track season occur for middle school? I'm not sure. I am for middle school unless it's changed. It's the last it's the last sport for middle school. So it'd be like the last semester, so spring. So it' be after the time changes essentially. So getting out 30 minutes later really wouldn't impats right when school got out, which probably would benefit the students would just stay there and then the parents could come and then pick

070them up. So, I don't know that track would be as much of a concern because I'm I'm I'm not really seeing the impact there. And then I know that we're trying to look at costneutral options and I understand the reason for it, but I would be remiss if I didn't say there were options on the table that would bring money to this district for transportation if we just used the stop arm buses, the stop arm camera on the buses. other many other districts around us, Bvard County, Duvall, Hillsboro, Miami Dade. there's many in the state of Florida that have found someone to provide the service for them and they're making millions of dollars. So I'm less concerned about a neutral option when we haven't done enough in our county to get the dollars that are

071available to us. cuz there are there is money out there that we could get. It's been two years now and we're still running in troubles and that's two years that we didn't make money that we could make for our bus drivers. I mean because it is in law now that we could use those for bonuses for bus drivers. We could use them for all sorts of transportation needs and we know the need is great. We know we're struggling to transport our homeless students. we're running four routes because we don't have enough bus drivers. we need to pay them more and all of that money could go towards those initiatives and yet we haven't been able to cross the finish line and get an RFP out to put those on our buses and therefore we're losing

072money. So, I would just like us to really kind of dig deep and figure out a way to make that happen through an RFP or whatever process that looks like because it is concerning to me that we've left that money on the table when we could be using it to provide and what am I trying to we could use it to really enhance our transportation services. Thank you, Madam Chair. May I respond? Absolutely. so I'm sorry that you made those statements that are incomplete because we have been working on the stop arm process and as every board member is aware it requires the sheriffs to be on board. Sheriff Mina currently is not on board with us moving forward as the languages stated in the legislation. So to say that we have not been moving

073in the direction of trying to secure the additional dollars that would be available through the stop armed cameras is not accurate because we have Thank you. superintendent, I would like to respond because there was a time when Sheriff Mina was on board and he said he would do it and then we went back and forth on whether we wanted to piggyback, do an RFP, what we were going to do and then Sheriff Mina reversed his decision based on information that I was given and now no longer wants to do it because it's everybody's struggling with personnel and I totally understand that. We could do it internally. There's other things that we could do that I know that we're looking into, but I did want to share publicly my frustration that it's taken this long because

074Sheriff Mina at one time was on board and we still were going back and forth on an RFP and a piggyback and I don't it's not my decision which way we go and I really don't care which way we go. It's just we have so few opportunities to get money into this district. We're continually getting our our hands tied by the legislature. we don't know if income tax is going to be around in the next year. We know the federal government is giving us less and less money. So, it's just whenever there's an opportunity to actually bring funds into this district that could help the district, I just feel like that should be a priority and there shouldn't be so many barriers to do what other districts have done without the same issues. That's the

075point I want to make. Thank you, Dr. Basquez. so again I don't believe that's the true picture. We were moving forward without an RFP and then there were issues that arose in other districts regarding one of the companies and so we paused to see what was going to happen with that company. We also looked at the piggyback contracts that were not favorable to us at that time. we would have to pay for cameras on every one of our buses, including the 200 that are sitting and are not in service. Once the issues were resolved, we were going to move forward with the RFP process. and then the sheriff had issues with the language and wanted to see what the final language was going to be in the legislation. Once it passed, he did share that

076he was not in support. You did bring to me this past week, I believe, an option for us to look into, which I already spoke with Mr. PCO, and they are looking to see if there's a way for us to to move forward internally with that process. Thank you, Dr. Vasquez. And I do I do appreciate that, but but I still we could have done it. I believe, this is my opinion, which I'm allowed to have as a board member. I believe we could have submitted an RFP a long time ago and some of the issues that we were concerned about with piggybacking, we could have reversed through our own RFP process and through our own contract if we were uncomfortable piggybacking. And I was told multiple times that we were going to go out

077for an RFP and then that RFP never happened. So again, I understand the concerns about the buses and with the piggyback, but nothing ever prevented us when the sheriff was on board from going out to an RFP and competing it so that we could get those cameras on our buses. Not only is it the safest option for our students because it protects our students, it would bring money into this district. And as we all have had so many conversations, we're in desperate need of any dollars that we can get into this district. So I would just encourage us to try to figure this out so that we can capture the dollars that other districts have captured through this process. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to recognize the superintendent one more time if she has anything

078else. And then I appreciate your position. I appreciate your clarification and your counterposition, but I don't think there's anything more to add. So, Dr. Basquez because you No, I disagree and I think we've come to the end of this conversation. Okay. And only because you got the first word was she going to get the last word. If she's got the first word, you'd get the last word. All right. Thank you so much. member Fant. Okay. Thank you again, Mr. Pekco and your whole team. Thank you for all that you do. I know this is not always the easiest. especially just the whole bus situation is always a little interesting to navigate and so I appreciate everything that you do and just even sharing some of the challenges that your bus drivers face when they're first

079getting out there and the GPS says to go one way and they try that and it's not working. And so a lot of things that are happening behind the scenes that you know the kiddos don't see. They just hop on and see their awesome bus driver and get to school safely. And so thank you guys and your team. just a few thoughts. So for me, I'm completely fine with whatever the public would want whatever the parents, staff, students, you know, surveying all of them. when I was looking up just kind of the history on this you know how in 2019 we went to the community I remember clearly when that survey came out I had kids in all ranges from elementary all the way up to high school and for me you know if it's

080not broken don't fix it kind of mentality and for me personally I felt you know I totally know that there's science out there that says that it's better for our high schoolers but at the same time our high schoolers are learning to mature and to take on responsibilities. And if getting up a little earlier and being to school and being responsible and getting there on time, if that's part of the growing up phase, I personally was all for that. So, I do remember when this came out and it was pretty much like a slam dunk on we're not changing it. It's fine the way it is. so it was a little concerning when the legislature in 2023 had passed this bill saying that we had to switch it. but very thankful that they kind of

081heard our voices and said you know what go to the people if they say no then there's no problem with you leaving it the way it is. so for me I think a thought exchange would suffice for a survey and just kind of sharing the start times and when those would be. and then I if the parents are in favor, why? And if they're not in favor, maybe they can state a few comments. would would be helpful. I also think it would be helpful to create a video that would either be, you know, each schoolboard member does it for their own district or, perhaps, you know, we all do it together or your team does it, whoever wants to be in the video. But just a really clear quick you know one to two minute

082video that gets the gist of it in the beginning of the video and if they want to keep listening they can listen for further information and then could you know the reach of please fill out the survey. so for me that would be what I think would be really helpful. a couple just one question I guess I had when we're looking at the you know, how this worked in Hillsboro County for instance, a question that I have. Do we know what their vacancy rate is for bus drivers? The last time the vacancies rates relatively low, but they did have a salary increase for their drivers. Okay. So, lower vacancy rate and we're we're short like 400 and some bus drivers. Correct. to eliminate the doublebacks, we need about 150 to 200 more. Okay. So, 150

083to 200 more bus drivers. So, go ahead. But right now with the current number of routes that we've created, another 20 will help us cover the open routes as well as have a few subs for absences. Okay. But we're still doing double backs. Well, it really is incredible. the, you know, magician work you all have done to figure that out. do we know if Hillsboro does double backs? They did when they had the vacancies, but last year they had a push and again with the increase in salaries and the push in hiring, they're close to filling well most of their vacancies now. Do we know how much their salary is or not? I don't know the exact numbers, but I think it's close to 20 or over an hour. Okay. Okay. so you know, when

084I look at things like that, that would be my biggest question is here, like we always say, we are really competing with everything that Orlando has to offer as far as bus drivers. so for them, you know, let's say we had full capac like we have no vacancies, we're doing, you know, sitting pretty with all the bus drivers and all the buses in route. would this be more feasible and like we could have more wiggle room with how we're you know rolling this out. It would as right now we're using all our drivers to run three tiers. If we had additional drivers we couldn't run less than three tiers. but right now high schools we have 488 buses, elementary schools we have 475 buses and middle schools we have 500. If any of the two

085tiers run simultaneously, there'll be an increase in number of drivers to do that. But if we had more drivers, then certainly that would be a consideration. Wow. Okay. you know, just I think, you know, that explains a lot for me. I think that you know when we look at maybe other counties things to consider then would be their vacancy rate and how many bus drivers they have and how easy that is for them to roll out something different where if we're already kind of struggling to make this the magic happen then you know I mean obviously we can try to switch it up if needed but going to the public I think will be our number one and you know anything we say up here really is it goes back to the public and what

086they would prefer. Thank you, Member Font. Mr. Pomearine, I'm just chiming in for member Bird. Oh, please. Member Bird, you're recognized. Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that. so I am in line with what my board members have said that if we want to you know go to the community again I don't have a problem with that. I think a thought exchange is a great way to do that. A survey I like the idea of doing a video where we explain you know what the issue is and all of this what we just said except in a cute video form would be really neat and then followed by a vid by a survey. I'm happy to do that. I will tell you that I have serious doubts that in the five years since I last sat

087in that dice seat and stated what my community told me then, which was they were very much against switching switching the bus driving times because of two main reasons. And that was their high school kids working after school because families in my community depended on that income. Sadly enough, they needed their their high school kids to work and they needed their high school kids watching their kids after school, the smaller kids after school. So those were the two biggest issues that I had. And I remember I wrote columns about it. I had people I asked people to write me emails about it. I, you know, we had the community meetings. So I got a lot of community input and my community was very strongly against it for those two main reasons. so I would doubt

088in in the, you know, issues we're having now with, finances that anything would be any different, but I'm happy to, go back out and ask again. And, of course, if things have changed, I would be, you know, for changing. It is also worth noting at an FSB conference in 2023, I went to a session with Hillsboro and Broward who had done it, who had made the switch and I pulled out my notes from that meeting and there were a few things that they mentioned that I think are really important to note. They did say that before and after school care had to be provided at every school to combat the supervision issue with the students by the siblings because that was as I said a big issue for a lot of families that relied on

089older siblings to watch kids. So they had to make sure that they had before and after school options at every school. Another thing they did was they switched middle school practices in the morning. So they held middle school practices in the morning before school started from 8:30 to 9:30 and then their middle school started at 10:00. So that's something also to keep in mind. But one of the biggest things that I remember from that meeting and it's in my notes right here is that they saw someone asked, "Did you see big improvements in the attendance and tardies for high school kids in first period?" And they said no, they did not. they kids the high school kids were still late and were still missing first period. that they really didn't see any difference. in that.

090So, I think that's really important. I think it would be beneficial to go I'm sure now after they've done it for so many years, I think it might they probably have good data on if it's made any improvements academically because I know that the science is real on that if you can if kids can get an extra hour of sleep, then it's beneficial. But from what they shared in that meeting, the high school kids were not getting an extra hour of sleep. they were just staying up an hour later basically. so I think that's important to to dig into a little bit before we would make this kind of adjustment. But but I appreciate the discussion and again I'm happy to go back out and ask my community. I just have serious doubts that anything's

091changed in the five years that we asked last time. So that's it chair. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you member Bird. let me go to member Vicki. Sorry, member Belder. Thank you so much. I do appreciate the conversation. A lot of what I'm going to say, I've already shared with transportation team when they saw us individually. I just kind of want to reiterate my concern and most of the board members have said some of the same thing. I remember in 2010, I think it was, when they did that, just did a drastic change. middle school kids were coming to school earlier. High schools at 9:30 or something like that. But teachers of high school, we were still coming to school at 7:00. That's a habit like that's hard to break. So, we were there two

092hours. But what I do remember that where we really suffered those high school teachers who had children and that were over extracurricular activities that did not occur because school was out at 4:30 and when the clock changes 5:15 is dark and those teachers that had younger children or had to get home for their husbands to get home by 6:00 or whatever to have dinner whatever this it just did not work. That thing lasted a year. And I told people, I said, "It's not going to last for a year. This is not going to happen." And the same thing some of the board members brought out about the fact that the students could not work. That well, they could work, but they didn't get that hour. Like if they get out of school at 2:15, they

093got to get to work at 3 3:00 or 4:00. They got from a 4 to 9, 4 to 8 or no later than 10, but some of them were staying late. So, I'm I was so grateful for that. And I too was at the conference when they talked about what Hillsboro County and some of the counties were doing and students, you know, if we start late, they're going to stay up late. It's going to see be the same. It's going to be the same thing. So, I don't think that would make that much of a difference. However, I am again in agreement with if we do maybe another survey because I know the people in my community, they were totally vehemently against that time change because when when elementary school kids if they have to

094catch the bus at like a quarter to 6, it's dark and that's going to difficult. And I was at a track meet just recently this past school year at Oakidge. We had a it was a district-wide track meet and we had to shut down some of the activities because it was dark. The lights weren't working and so we could not finish the track meet. Now that was because the lights weren't working. But if you deal with that with the time, you're not going to be able to get all the track because we deal with daylight saving time. We still doing that. And they had to cut off some of the events because we could not see the track. It was dark and you know runners, that's very dangerous. Couldn't see the track. So, we had

095to do not do that. So again, I would agree and work with if members of my constituency and and the district decide to change, of course, I'm going to agree. But I I've seen what happens when when we change and it's dark and you have activities, especially sports activities. it's it's horrible when you it's this is not working at all. But I do appreciate the Roberto's group. You all did have some alternatives. You gave us all three alternatives to look at and I appreciate that we do have choice. I'm glad that the state legislators have decided to, you know, if our communities don't want to change, we don't have to make it. I appreciate that effort because if we had to be forced to do it, it is not going to work. And then again,

096I want us to do what we can to research and find more money. Hillsboro got the money, so they were able to get hire more buses because that is a need. And I'm sure if we could, like Mr. W said that if we got even 200 more bus drivers, 100 more, that could make a make a big difference. So perhaps some kind of way in finding how we can get salaries to come in to to make that move. But I do remember when Chef Mina, you know, we were given information and he was not on board with having to do that extra stuff. So again in closing I will support what we support as a board groupwise but I kind of am not interested personally and that time changes. I remember how I felt as

097a teacher and I know how my fellow teachers felt and I saw the struggle that students were having to not be able to get those extra two or three hours in to work because they needed to work to help their families. And that's my concern is seeing little children at a bus stop at 6:15 in the morning. 6:45 is still dark and I woke up this morning it was dark kind of dark. So that is not a good thing. But okay, thank you so much. Thank you, member Fel. little little pro input from my perspective when I came on the board. This was actually something that I felt extremely strong about that. The science was clear. I had four kids that went through the education system. I know how hard it was getting them going

098in the morning. so I came in convinced that we just got to figure it out. and I think several other board members came in with that same strong opinion. And then I sat down with Mr. Wyn, Mr. Pacheco and saw how difficult that was to to make it work. and of course then we decided we were going to get family and community and teacher input. I also my oldest son was in school when we did the first change that I think what it lasted a year. and the only you know my family was different because I didn't we didn't have younger kids. My kids did work, but they kind of had their own neighborhood lawn business, so that didn't require anything out of them in the evening, so we weren't inconvenienced. the only inconvenience was

099my son having he would get there before the school day for for sports practice, and that wasn't ideal. at the end of at the end of lacrosse practice, they're they're they're sweaty and they're whooped and they're not in the best condition to go into first period. But that relative to what I see as the benefits were minor inconvenience. I was not one of those parents that was so strongly opposed to it that would compel the board to switch course so quickly. So, I'm I come here today fully aware of that same thought process I had before, but also informed by what I thought was going to be just a slam dunk obvious, you know, community, yes, we've got to do this. And so I'm glad that we will have to go through a process of

100asking the community. as I understand it, we are required to send something out even if we are not leaning towards changing it. I think that's very very good. I think one of the things that Well, let me ask one technical question in the scenarios that you ran through and I apologize. I think I'm the only person on the board who didn't have a pre-briefing. I was out of town last week unexpectedly. and I know our staff worked really hard. We were going to meet today. So, I apologize that I should know this, but your scenarios, did that include the double backs that we're doing right now? The scenario that you've run? Yes. The hour in between will allow us to do that. That's why you keep talking about the hour in between. Okay. I keep

101hearing that. That was my next question. What's this hour in between? Thank you. Dr. Vasquez, one thing I'm not clear on is you said that for our high school teachers that they'll work the same number of minutes or hours, but more student contact time. So, I'm a little confused on that and what the plan where the planning goes. Can you just help me understand that? Sure. and I'll let Mary fill in if I misspeak. Currently at the elementary and I'll use middle school level, the teachers arrive approximately their their duty date begins about 30 minutes before 40 minutes before the students actual day. So that is considered a planning time under the contract. they have to have a planning time equal to or greater than the length of each period. So in addition to that

10230ome minute time they have in the morning during the day they have a planning period that's about 45 48 minutes whatever the length of each period is. At the elementary level it's similar. they have planning time during the day and then they have depending on the school I think it's either extra time in the morning when the teachers duty day starts or in the afternoon at the high school level because the periods have to be is it 55 minutes Mary 50 minutes the teacher duty day when it starts they may only have maybe 15 20 minutes before students arrive and then they're dismissed shortly after students are dismissed. So they do not have that additional block of time in the morning or in the afternoon. It's solely their their planning time by contract. Okay, that's

103that was the part I was missing. So they actually end up having less planning time. Correct. Correct. They have less time without students. That's the probably the best way to describe it. Right. Yeah. And I just wanted to add so yes. So in the middle and the high school they all have a period worth of during the school day where they can have their individual planning and that's the CTA. at the high school also there's more time in between classes because the high schools are bigger. So we have to have more passing time. And so that's why again it makes less time at the beginning or end of the school day because we've got those few more minutes of passing time also. So they don't have that 30 minutes before school starts. Okay. And after

104because of just the logistics of of a high school. Okay. and from a community input, I'm I'm sure that's irrelevant. I was trying to understand it. I think the one concern that I have as we're talking about this is, and I wish I was more comfortable with a thought exchange than I think most of the board is, I there's two things. one, I think we have to be as vigorous as we can be in getting that feedback because it would be so easy to hear from one group or another and then and make a decision and then you're impacting people who weren't paying attention and they wake up and we've made the wrong decision. And that is far more likely if we make a change that people will be disturbed by it because they're kind

105of, you know, used to what we're doing. So, I really want us to work as hard as we can at making sure we're getting in front of everybody that would most directly be impacted. The other thing that I wonder about when we get this input, we're going to have, we're going to have families, we're going to have our employees, our teachers, and we're also going to have the broader community, which I think weighs less to me and I think probably for most of you all, but it when we do procurement, before we go out for a bid, We decide what the criteria is for scoring it. We don't get, you know, accept the bids, look at them, and then decide what criteria we're going to use. And I'm a little concerned that we get feedback,

106say, from families that say we should do this, and it's x% and we have feedback from our employees that say we should do that, and that's x%. And then which of those I if we are in a situation where there's a big difference between different groups, which one matters most? And if say it's 60% here that's in favor, but there's 80% over here that's in favor. Is 60% of this group equal to 80% of that group in terms of where our priorities lie? I hope I'm making some sense. I see heads nodding and I'm really glad, but I think if I were watching this right now on on Orange TV, I'd been going, "What the heck was that?" so I want to give some thought to I think we should give some thought and this

107is not it's for you, superintendent, but also for the board about whether it might be a good idea to kind of define that at the outset, but that might be it might be impossible. But just wanted to put that on the table as one of the things that goes through my mind that it could be difficult. But if we look also at our previous responses that might help us inform us if it's going to be similar, how would how would we prioritize Dr. Vasquez? thank you, Madam Chair. absolutely. we'll have Dr. borders team, you know, analyze the response rate from previous years. And additionally, they will be able to look at what percentage we want to aim for the minimum percentage to ensure that we're capturing the audiences. We will work handinhand with our schools

108to be able to push out the information and we can look to do a thought exchange. I love the video idea. and we can if each board member wants to, you know, do it for their district, we could schedule something that's kind of quick and light. and then we can look at the return rate and then make a decision. Then if we feel, you know what, I think we need to add, you know, maybe a work session where we invite families or I think we want to have individual community meetings that are allow the families to come out and give us verbal feedback or that we can present the information and then they can do the survey. So it's not an all or nothing. I think starting with the thought exchange is probably going to

109be a good test. and then of course it will help us if through your social media platforms you also push that out so that we're capturing as many people as possible. So Dr. Border and I will talk about what the rollout will look like a timeline and then we will bring it back to the board in the next couple of weeks. All right. that was very helpful. the one I think the one last thought I do like the idea of a video and as member Ferrant was kind of explaining it, it would be kind of a short intro from the board or a board member. And at first when you were saying that I was thinking each board member was going to give their own presentation which maybe no offense to my fellow boards made

110me a little nervous. I will say even the intro, I think it's important on this that we not prejudice the audience by how I feel, how somebody else feels. You know, I might think it's a great idea. I'm not even going to name names might think it's a really bad idea and how we lead into it might alter how they perceive and respond. And at the end of the day, what we actually do and how they actually respond. So I think that neutral tone is really important. But given the fact that the legislature has told us we should pursue this and we need to hear from the public, I think having that neutral tone is would be very easy. And I think that especially each of you that have such strong relationships in your district,

111just hearing from you saying we really need we need you to engage. We need to know. don't want to make a decision that we believe you need to make. So I think each one of you having that message would be very beneficial. Personally with that I've done enough talking. Let me go to member Salamanca. Thank you chair. And I think that's a great point on on feedback. So I won't say what grade but I was in school when we changed the times for a whole year. So, as my usual here, I will give you the beautiful student perspective of the times, and I do think that I'll caveat with this. I had a principal who implemented it very well. I think historically well in the district. So, that was very I can't speak for maybe

112the other places that got implemented and I think overall the community felt less of the pain points and there was a couple of things that happened. which is why I'm very similar to Chair Jacobs, I think I'm going to be very strong on feedback and community feedback on this. a couple things was any of my friends that worked absolutely had an impact on their jobs and many of them did had to change jobs or lose their jobs or ended up actually working later hours rather than not because they just had to do sports later, had to work later. It was a I can't speak to all the schools, but something did happen which was there was this thing called an optional zero period. And so it wasn't like school was getting started later. In fact,

113all the overaccomplished kids started taking zero period and bumped up their GPA. and there was a massive amount of inequity that happened with zero period. If you had transportation, you got to school early, you did extra stuff. If you didn't, then you were out of luck. You had to just get on that bus. there was a ton of my peers who did have little siblings that they were no longer picking up or dropping. It was definitely an impact and and I will say this students there they're the type of student who try to think of how to say this. The type of student who goes to bed early and gets the benefits of the brain science part of it is going to do this regardless. and the rest of their students are going to just

114go to bed later and wake up later and and that's it's part of being a teenager. So, I don't know that a lot of these benefits will happen. I also think that a lot of the benefits happen if a parent is home to enforce the bedtime. and so part of my big question is any change I want to absolutely take it through the equitable part because I would say even back then the parents that were most outspoken in the get the kids more sleep or even the parents that were most outspoken when things did not work out for them sports or whatever reason are not the parents that work three jobs. Those are not the parents that were coming to these community meetings. They were not like these were not the kids I speak to

115my family. I never had a bedtime. My parents were never around when I went to bed from elementary school all the way to high school. I could go to bed and I could wake up at whatever time I wanted. There are so many kids like that. And if we changed and when we did change the times as OCPS, my parents did not go to the community meeting. They had two or three jobs. the parents that went to those community meetings were also the parents that at some point were concerned about the bedtimes who also were put in the bedtimes. And so, I would love when we get feedback for us to absolutely I want get numbers specifically on the penetration of our title one schools. I would love for any and all surveys to have

116Spanish in it and for us to just reach those families. I am sure we will absolutely get feedback from teachers. I know we will get feedback from community meetings if we have them from the subset of parents that are highly engaged. But this really impacts a lot of students and families who depend on a student working and also depend on a high school student to take care of their elementary school kids and pick them up or not. It it just is what it is. I will absolutely represent my community and however they show up and they see that is best for them I will vote in that direction. So I'm not I'm not against changing the times and I think logistically thank you to your team for figuring out a costneutral approach to this. but

117I will I do think from having lived it once, from having seen the community backlash. I think it has a lot of inequitable effects depending on how it's implemented. And I think that thankfully I'll be here to to monitor a bit more of that. but yeah, I think the research is clear. We can communicate that to parents. but I don't know that we need to be parenting everyone's kids and I don't know that we will. So, I'm okay with not doing that. So, thank you, Member Salamaka. Thank you. That was wonderful feedback. member Douglas, thank you for a great presentation, a great insight that you provided. my thought is this. this is a decision that would impact everyone, the whole community. So, I would echo the sentiment of my, of my colleagues here. I would

118like to engage the stakeholder the community into that decision and I will definitely embrace whatever decision that my community will take on this the question that I was going to ask do we have a survey going already but apparently probably not we're just going to yeah okay so we're working on videos or thought exchange or any other way of communicating medium to commun communicate to our stakeholders. Right. We were waiting on the board's feedback before proceeding, but we will be able to also look at the survey questions from the previous time and make sure that we capture the right questions for our families. Yeah. Hillsboro has made the change. I'm curious, do you do we know the pro and cons of this change? And I know member bird already gave us some insight about what

119concern they have. Do we have more concern because I really would like to research an analysis really research what exactly they are experiencing with that change. Okay. how impactful it is to the parents to the community and to the students. because it seems like it's great but apparently it's not all great. you know listening to what member Bird just said. So I think that will be an eyeopener for the parents to know that Hillsboro is not all that it seems to be a success. So we can communicate that to our stakeholders as well you know what else and I'm looking forward to Dr. borders analysis to pray to see again to share to with our community. last point that I want to make regarding AI. It's scary. It is scary how fast we are re

120relying on AI right now. It really is scary. So I think they're going to take AI is going to take over the world really quickly because we are really relying on AI like very quickly and rapidly and it's scary. I just wanted to say that. well that's my thought. Thank you member Douglas. Member Banos. Thank you so much Madam Chair and I really appreciate the conversation here today and the input from everyone. I think there is a lot to think about and I sense I'm probably the one who's the most open to this. Maybe that's because I have not been on here when you did it when you all did it last. But it's something I definitely want to get community input on for sure. I want to make sure that community though does include

121pediatricians, mental health experts, psychologists, health foundations, because, you know, I know that we are a people first organization, but but really in my personal opinion, like we are a student first organization. So, you know, and we are in the business of educating students and doing whatever we can to help them thrive. And so at a time when we're struggling with attendance and we're struggling with mental health issues and just health generally and you know you see that the research on later start times for high schoolers correlates with improved mood and better attendance and better grades and fewer car crashes among youth. Yeah, there's a trade-off for for younger kids. I agree that's something we need to figure out. But I think that and also, you know, to member Salamanca's point and other board members have

122pointed out, there are going to be certain parents who are more engaged. And so I think it's we need to remember that we are representing our community and we are taking in the best information that we can get to make the best decision for our students and how they can best thrive and achieve in our schools. So, I just wanted to to kind of share that point. but I do look forward to getting some some additional input. And just a couple more things. just wanted to to to bring up. There were some great points made about fund better funding for transportation. and if only there was money that was being diverted away from our schools right now that we could use for this, man, that would be amazing to help our students. to have a

123better schedule that fits better for everybody. also wanted to bring up the sports issue. you know, one option for sports, which I think is already happening, you know, that sports are happening in middle school on typically on Wednesdays. A lot of the meets, at least that I go to for my kids are on Wednesdays, so they're on earlier days, so they're actually able to start earlier. and some are on Saturdays. So, you know, I think there's there's room to sort of have conversations about sports if if that's going to be the issue. do and even my high schooler who plays a high school sport sometimes the meets don't start till 6:00 or 6:30 inexplicably. So, you know, it's not as though they're starting earlier now. so, I think that's just there's some flexibility there. also

124wanted to speak to the issue with the jobs because I understand that's a really important for a lot of our students is that they're able to have that after school job. and I I would also, you know, I think maybe, and we talked about this, Mr. Pico, in our conversation, but that a lot of juniors and seniors do have flexibility in their schedule and that, and I know this cuz I have a senior who's complaining that she's the only one of her friends who's taking a full schedule this year. that many are leaving school early so that they can, you know, that that they can be employed and have a job. So, but I agree that is really important. And I want to make sure we hear those voices and that we are hearing all

125of our students and all of their needs. and then again I just want to to circle back to the point of making sure we have pediatricians and psychologists because even in this conversation up here we're talking about well they just have to go to bed you know they just have to go to bed earlier. It's not just about going to bed earlier or going to bed later. It's like the circadium the circadian clock of a child. And so like we're not we're clearly don't even understand what's happening. and so I just think it's important to have that expert opinion when we have these conversations to really truly understand the full benefits especially because of the very things that we are struggling with right now in our schools. so I appreciate everything that you've presented with

126us today and again really appreciate my board members comments and perspectives. All right. Thank you, Member Vanos. And I'm glad you brought up the Sarcadia, however you pronounce it, clock because I actually do think that is a part of the equation. we don't all have the same clock. my clock doesn't wake up until midm morning and it doesn't shut down until about 1:00 in the morning, but most people have a more reasonable clock. so I I think you have a good point that even without somebody saying go to bed, there is a point where most students are going to go to bed and there's a point where science has proven their brains work better at a certain point in time. So I do think there's a lot of value in that. and I have one

127question on the legislation that now that you brought that up. So we're required to get in input if we're not going to change the times. So we get input and the input is yep it's a good idea we change the times and then if we have a repeat of what happened back in 200 whatever is 910 and parents are insistent or teachers are insistent or the combination that we change back and by insistent and I don't want any anybody to misunderstand this so take give me a little bit of time to walk through this what happened was during the next campaign cycle that became a campaign issue. And as I understand it, the board members who were strongly in favor of it and put it in place were replaced by candidates who run ran on

128I'll fix it. And when I say that, I occasionally I'll I'll hear people say, well, you should do the right thing without you don't need to con without considering the political ramifications for getting elected. And I completely agree that you should always do what you believe is the right thing. However, in that particular case, if doing something you think is right, but your constituency is vehemently opposed to it and you can't keep it in place, it does very little good at all. In fact, in this particular case, it did harm because the flip-flopping back and forth was more harmful than knowing what the community wanted and in that case doing what they want. And that again, that's not always the situation, but I think it's extremely important to try our best to make sure there's

129going to be community support. So my one question from a legal or legislative standpoint. So what happens if we put it in place because there's community support and then there's a revolt. What legislatively I don't know if this is to you or Mr. Pomearini who I think is preoccupied and we're going to put him on the spot in a second. what happens in that situation from a legislative did did they anticipate that possibility? I was distracted. Could you repeat? I'm sorry. I know. I could see and I was like, "This is not going to be good." and I see Mr. Howitt coming to the front and maybe for this. Are you coming to address this? Okay. Because because u Mr. Howitt oversees our legislative affairs question. Yeah. So, let me try again. So as I

130understand the legislation, we are supposed to initially we were supposed to adopt this schedule and then it was yes you should adopt this schedule but you should get community feedback and if the feedback tells you not to do it then we can say we tried but but we're not doing it based on that input. So what I'm trying to figure out is if the input tells us, yeah, we're good with it. Maybe not. We make that change and then a year later or that following year we are hearing this outcry, this outpouring of, you know, this is a mess. Change it back or else. Does the legislation then contemplate that we reverse it because of that feedback or are we kind of married to it because of the initial feedback? Okay. No, my understanding is

131that the law does not dictate that you change or keep them. It's simply that you gather the input. And so my interpretation is that if there is outcry that's not what they want, we would go out solicit feedback to make sure it's not a small group and then if we would need to, pardon the term flip back, okay? then we would do so and we would have the data to support why we went back to another start time to the earlier start time. All right. and parsing words when you said we're not required to but we're required to get feedback if the feedback says we should are we then required to Mr. I've got the language. Okay. Thanks. It is an oddly oddly structured statute. No. So, it says the statute says the opening for

132schools u by July 1, 2026. The instructional day for middle school may not begin earlier than 8:00 a.m. and the instructional day for high schools may not begin any earlier than 8:30 a.m. Right. And then it says, "A district school board shall be deemed in compliance with the requirements of subp paragraph 2 if the district school board submits to the department by June 1, 2026 a report in the format prescribed that includes at minimum all of the following." Then you go down to B. documentation of strategies considered to implement a later school start time for middle schools and high schools within the school district, including the number of board meetings, public hearings, and opportunities for parent input to discuss the strategy. So, if you have meetings, board meetings, opportunities for parent input, and you keep

133it as is, you're in compliance with the statute, even though the statute technically says 8:00 a.m. for middle school, 8:30 for high school. If you wanted to go back the next year because you got bad input, as long as you once again have the input of parents, you're not married to that. you can go ahead and make the change based upon that parental input the next year as the superintendent stated. All right. All right. Thank you for that. and I think we're about at the end of this discussion. I do want to comment because member Douglas you expressed some concern about AI taking over the world and we have some stop gap measures and that is before AI takes over the world its carbon footprint will destroy the world or it will exhaust all of

134the available water. So there are some limiting factors unless of course AI can figure out how to solve the problems it's creating. so I'm hoping that we have something in between that it is helpful in solving the problems it's creating and that it still doesn't take over the world. So, all right. Dr. Vasquez, do we have any else for the board? no. I think we have direction. We are going to work with Dr. borders team and Bill Wyn on a survey that will go out to our families. We will share a timeline. We will also incorporate in there for the board to decide if we want to additionally have work session or community meetings throughout our district knowing that we need to submit all of that to the state no later than June 1st. Sorry,

135Mr. Pomearini. Anything else that All right. most of the board members have said it, but excellent presentation. I know from our last experience with this, how many six years ago that is very difficult. it's very complicated and I know you've put a lot of of time and effort into preparing for this discussion. I appreciate it very much. Thank you all. Okay. the meeting is now adjourned but and so you can but the gentleman behind Mr. PJO I don't think we've met. I'm going to come out. I'd like to to meet you. Thank you McGriffin. He is our senior director of routing. Okay. Senior administrator. I'm sorry. I just gave him a raise. he's the Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. N.