NHCS Board of Ed. Capital Bond Committee Meeting | October 17, 2025

001Minute warning. >> There it is. Dr. Barnes, can you come back? >> I know. Get over here. >> Eric's here. We can start. And Commissioner's Apple's coming, but he's running late because he had another meeting. And I assume the others, since we haven't heard from him, are going to be >> I talked to Mr. >> Yes. So, I will call this meeting to order and ask Jenny to start the role, please. >> Pat Bradford, >> I am here. Pete Bilor, >> Barnhard >> here. >> Kim Clark >> here. >> Paul Slovic >> here. >> Hannah Moon. Philip Sutton. Charlene Thompson >> here. >> Jared Worthington >> here. >> Stephanie Walker >> here. >> Rob Zapple. >> Eric Cradle >> here. >> Amanda Kusiaak >> here. >> Lisa Wsbacher. Natalie English, John Hennitt >> here, >>

002Christopher Riley, Livian Jones. >> Okie dokie. Let's do the pledge and then we have a recorded invocation. >> Kim Clark is going to lead it. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Hello, this is Tom Hower at the Global River Church. We're calling in for the invocation to bless the board. First, we want to we want to thank you and honor all those that give such uh support to our children, the education and the stuff that you go through. We certainly honor and thank you for your service. And right now, we want to pray. Lord, we just thank you that you are the God who is able to do exceedingly and

003abundantly above what we ask or think. We also know that in Jeremiah 33:3, it says, "Call to me and I'll answer you and I will show you great and mighty things." One of the great names of our God is that he is Jehovah Gyra. He's a provider. So Lord, we know for the finances, for the support, for the wisdom to be able to um figure out how to do budgets and how to spend it wisely for the most benefits. So Lord, we pray for our children. We pray for their protection. We also pray for your your your sovereign covering over all the board members for their unity and purpose. We know that u Psalm 133 says that God blesses and he actually commands a blessing when we we dwell together. That means operate together in

004unity. Unity is powerful. So is this unity. So Lord, we pray for a unified board. We pray for unified decision-making. And in the midst of it, Lord, you're the one who leads, guides, and directs. So we ask that you lay out the pathway that all of these uh lo those that are called to this position would be able to honor both God and man. But we also know that the primary thing for all of us is that our children will be protected and educated to be able to excel and be able to face all the challenges that are before them in their lives. So we thank you Lord for what you're doing and we give you praise and glory in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. >> Next up, approval of agenda. Entertain a motion

005to approve the agenda. I'll make so such a motion. >> So we have a motion and a second to approve the agenda. All in favor say I. >> I. >> All oppose? No. >> Okie dokie. Next thing, same thing for the minutes. >> Thank you. Need a second. >> Second. >> So we have first and a second to approve the minutes as they are. Um all in favor say I. >> I. >> And opposed. Okay, minutes pass. We're going to jump into general obligation bond referendum timeline and key milestones. And I have been doing some digging. So, I'm going to start with just what I've dug up so far. Um, and again, Miss Walker and other commissioners can, but I'm just I'm just trying to come up with some some some timelines and some some

006things that have happened in the past. And I want to correct some things I have tried to figure out and said and introduced to the public. River Lights, Pine Valley, and Mary Se were not on a 2014 or a 2017 bond. There was no 2017 bond. So, you have some information about the 2014 bond in front of you. Um, but I sat with Crystal and we did an exhaustive search and we found emails and um spreadsheets and things. And you also have two sheets that talk about the bond referendum and the rules from 2014, which will just help us be familiar with what the rules should be as we go through this. And then I gave you the 2014 committee members. Um, if you know any of those, you might reach out to them and

007just say, "Hey, how'd it go for you? What would you do differently?" That kind of thing. But I like to know what happened in the past so that we can go forward into the future. And in addition to that, we discovered an email from Eddie Anderson about River Lights and Pine Valley. And there's a factoid in there that I just think is fascinating. Um the cost for each was approximately uh for Pine Valley and Mary Se back in the day. Um was estimated at 28 to 29 million per school and now we're at 44 million. So that's how much. and Eddie talked about um the inflation and and and and and how much it's grown um you know the cost everything has grown. So, it's it's it's great to have those references as we move

008forward. And any anybody wants any of that from me, I'm happy to share it. But I didn't we didn't put it in your package because we don't want it to get too terribly big. But I have I literally have the construction equipment budget for Pine Valley and River Lights, which was it's just fascinating to look at for me. >> Okay. And some of this stuff I'm trying to get if we add things I'm trying to get it put into the attachments on our our our meetings so that we can always go back and find them later when we want them. So and the other thing that I had was um also from Eddie and let me read what he said. He said the construction market has experienced cost increases across the county. Our current estimates

009for River Lights and High Valley are significantly higher than originally anticipated. We have obtained cost estimates from the design team, a local construction company, and from NCDPI to gauge a school construction cost across the state, the comparison original estimate, and to the current is attached. We've shared this information with the county for the email. So, um the in talking with um Michael Lee um and other state representatives, I'm trying to put together something for Isaac Bear, which I will talk about later. Um but the funding was obtained from the general assembly for Isaac Bear. So, I kept trying to find where the bond was that dealt with Isaac Bear, but it really didn't. So, I take back everything I said about the 2014 and the 2017 bond. Nolan boy, this is the newest information of

010what we've dug up so far and we're going to keep digging. So, with that, um, >> Madam Chair, >> yes. >> Point of clarification is you said the funding for Isaac Bear, it was for the schematics for Isaac Bear. Is that correct? Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. Um, and we'll when we get to Isaac Bear, we'll talk about that. But on your you've got in your package and you've got in the attachments the calendar that we're going to follow. And we added Eric added two new dates for me this week. April 9th is the I mean April 6th is the first county commissioners action on whatever bond that we're going with and April 19th is the final application to the LGC local government commission. And I think we're going to talk about the local government

011commission a little bit as we go through today. So, >> can you put that one more time so I can write it in my not? >> Oh, yeah. It's it's on there. If you go if you go to your it's in your package >> milestones uh >> these are the two new ones. Yeah. April 6th is your first county commission action and April 19th is the final operation uh final application that goes into the local government commission which is out of the treasur's office and they have to approve it. And I mean, Eric, do you want to address what that involves now just so that we get familiar with it, those of us who weren't involved in the bond in the past? >> Sure. So there, thank you. There's a standard application um that as

012you can imagine includes all sorts of financial information related to county. Um you know, for the general obligation, it's going to be even more involved. Um again, with with a limited obligation, we typically do. It's it's uh it's backed by the the county intending to pay it back. fact, the general obligation bond is a legal legally required that the county commissioner set aside every year enough to repay the general obligation bonds. Um, and so there's there's going to be a disclosure um and the referendum that talks about what the potential impact on the tax rate was going to be and that has to be approved by the LGC. Uh but basically LGC is just there to make sure that uh we are doing everything the right way and that we're not getting in over our

013heads and that the uh bond buyers are going to get paid back in accordance with uh the fact that it's a general obligation bond. >> So are there questions on that? >> Yes, Miss Barnhart. I know our board has adopted and approved the projects that this subcommittee has suggested um which to the tune of $320 million. My question comes if we've already suggested that these projects be submitted for the bond. Is it a possibility that we could rebid some of these projects to there's as I don't answer this so I'm asking the question the county has to approve what is going to be able to go on the ballot for voting and so I just want to know if we're able to rebid some of those to potentially lower that number and my understanding is

014we haven't bid it at all we've just gathered estimates is that correct Dr. morning. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, um and and and the timeline for that would be once the bond the voters have said yes and then we get the sign off from the um local government commission then all the bids go out, right? Is that correct, Ashley? >> Can if I can clarify the we have paid previously for some of the designs that we have >> true >> that we already own but that was that was done in the past years past. So what we've done to this point is exactly what you mentioned. We've simply gathered estimates. >> But the ones we have designed on, would we not have to pay to have those updated? >> Well, we'd have

015to pay to continue the design work. The designs are are preliminary. So there's there's still more design work that would need to be done. And yes, that will that will be part of the cost that we've got estimates for. >> Do you have anything with that? Yeah, I was just going to share once funding is identified, that's when and we identify that scope of work after the design and everything's been done a little bit more detail so we can prepare the bid document. Then that's when everything will go out for bid. >> And I want to interject right here. We talked, it's in our minutes from last meeting. We as a committee voted not to put a ranking and to send it to our board. It went to our board and our last meeting and

016we voted not to rank again. And in talking to people in the public, especially I was talking to Mary Sappo the other night at New Hover and if I'm deeply invested, let's say in um Porter's Neck and it's last on the list, I might be less inclined to vote for it. So if we don't ever rank them, we just have here's our ask, then we won't have to worry about any of that negativity that could come attached to a ranking. So again, that's my recommendation. Um that we that we just continue with that. Yes, ma'am. >> The board did actually rank those items in the board meeting. >> Um Miss Joseph Barnhart requested two items be moved ahead to the top of the list and the board voted on that. that didn't pass >> and

017that was what was submitted to the county. >> So, we can go back and look at the minutes, but I'm pretty sure that's what I had in my notes. >> I I don't I remember it not passing >> because we were required to um prioritize those. That was a specific request from the county. >> Oops. >> Do you still care? >> I don't I don't remember that specifically. I trust Ashley's memory more than mine on that. Let's dig around in that because I I remember Josie made the motion and it didn't pass and I thought about it later and I thought and I talked to a couple people and that was where the idea came that if we don't if we don't prioritize and we don't rank them then we don't risk and they will

018they will solve themselves as let's say you know uh Poris neck is seven and a half million dollars um that could end up being first because it's the easiest one to get to or because we have the plans for River Lights, we have the plans for Pine Valley, we have plans for RAC. Depends on which one can be done first and that's going to be left up to staff to figure all that out. >> Yes. I mean, I did make a motion to put new handover and trust be at the top two priorities that I do not believe that passed, but when it came to the board, my understanding when we voted on it was the priorities of this subcommittee was the two elementary schools were top and then it was in order from handover

019part one. And so if it's not a ranking, I mean, I think that would Dr. Barnes, was it sent over to the county as a ranking system? because I feel like that is >> Ashley just said it was >> it was we just have to >> I'll go back to the minutes and if that's incorrect um Eric then I'll email you and county manager of that correction that they are not in priority order because I did think that I thought that passed I had my notes that had passed >> I'll go back to the minutes >> and and Miss Barnhart's memory jives with mine and it when I was approving the amendments for today it says in our minutes from our last meeting that we decided not to prioritize them. So, it's it's it's codified

020in our minutes from this committee. >> So, I have a question, M. Bradford, and this might be for Eric. So, if we put on a b a bond referendum, the wording particularly, I I guess I'm concerned if we we don't have to necessarily, but they all need to to be in the bond. So, they must all make sure that they do get done, >> right, >> for the voters, right? >> They would all be listed. I don't have any knowledge that you've got to give any sort of priority order in. Well, um, only because we don't have we have estimates and what happens if they come up a lot higher like who what does get priority is my question and then if their money runs out I mean trying to make sure they all get

021done >> even if they're not ranked. >> There's an expression too that you know we don't have time to do one thing at a time. We may be doing more than one project simultaneously. >> That's my hope. But there's like a finite amount of money and I just want to make sure even if we don't rank them that they all get done. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> But what if you run out of like 320 million and there's not enough to finish something. >> Wouldn't it be allocated each item has its its budget? >> There would be there would be an allocation for sure, but that doesn't mean that uh there could be some reshuffleling if that um looks like it needs to be done. And what we're going to hope, Commissioner

022Walker, is like we've done in the past, we have a do set amount and it comes in under bid like New Hover just did. And so we can then move that money over to where it's needed so that we get everything done. And we could I mean, we could say, you know, in alphabetical order, in no particular order, just to to let voters understand that it's not a ranking. I think it will help us get the bond passed. And that's my suggestion. >> I do think handover is a priority. I mean, if I'm I'm not I mean, obviously, we're not ranking today, but like >> Yeah, it's a priority. >> I mean, they're all in very very important. >> Yeah, they're all I don't hope we >> So, but when we get to what Dr.

023Barnes and Dr. Morgan are going to do is they are going to prioritize that 20 million and that 10 million and that 10 million for the technology and um safety and capital needs. They are going to prioritize those. And while I'm while I'm on that, Dr. Morgan created just a draft of a little map. When I was talking to Mayor Sappo the other night, I was trying to explain to him what would be covered in the bond and he has no no dog necessarily in the fight. So it was kind of new information to him. And I explained that, you know, from the north of the county to the south of the county, from New Hover, you know, over to Tras, we had the county covered. And so Rob created this um draft of showing

024the spots and you can show this to anybody and they'll get it really quick. And then Dr. Barnes and Dr. Morgan are going to go in and add smaller little icons for all of the places that are going to get touched by the technology, the safety, and the capital improvements. So, it's gonna it's going to be a good even though we're not going to be doing um spending money on marketing, it'll be a good a good way to share it at one glance for those who are visual. So, I'm pretty excited about that. Just it's that when is that going to be ready? because I would love to make sure that we are submitting um the same information everywhere as we're discussing >> a bond on a ballot and what projects are actually so when

025is that document either whether it's picture and list of full projects when will that be ready to disseminate to the public >> we're sort of narrowing that down now I didn't want to put much of the cart before the horse until the county had agreed to the bond first but we're sort working on Don's working on the technology part. Rob and I are working with some folks on in operations about the HVAC part and then the vestibule part is a part of the safety initiative. So we'll have that for you guys is just we want to make sure it's accurate and right before we spread >> and I would ask don't hold that for our next meeting. As soon as you have it disseminate it in all in all areas you know in terms of

026is that something we would have to approve? It isn't. Is it as a board? >> I can't speak to that. What I can say is regarding the um the the 20 million for the infrastructure, the HBAC, some of that I think is going to be dictated or we're going to rely on the facility conditions assessment that we're hoping to start within the next month. >> That won't be done pri our hope is it's done as early as March, but I can't say that for sure. >> But one of the things that's going to do is we're hoping to identify where we are looking at priorities for that pot of money. And once we get that conditions assessment, we'll use that to either confirm our plans or redirect them based on >> fine. That'd be fine.

027Redirecting, but we really can't wait until March to have that information. >> Well, we're I don't think we're waiting till March to look at it, but we're not going to have that conditioned assessment done, right, >> much earlier than that. >> But I like the idea if you could get we'd call it a draft or initial and then redo it when once March comes. So we have So there's something because one of the things we're going to get to here in a minute is the whole um you know PR aspect of this thing. So I would direct your attention to the next item which is the general obligation bond projects and there's a couple of points to make there. Um you see you see five bullet points and Dr. Barnes said I was cheating but

028you know >> you didn't say exactly that. Well, you did say that would be cheating, but listen to my argument. Um, New Hover High School phase one, that's pretty pretty uh clear. And um we're going to talk in a minute in depth about what those upgrades and the facilities are phase one and then look at phase two and see if there's anything in phase two that we want to now go back and drag upwards. We need to put that to bed or or make a change. But Tras Middle School that touches CEK and Tras. So for me, that's two points. We get a new school out on the CEKC UNCC I mean excuse me Kate Community College campus and then Miss Clark's school becomes a part of Laney. So that hits two populations of voters,

029two populations of people at the same time. So I would count that as two things. And so this is written as replacement facility at CEK campus for Tras Middle School. Repurpose the existing Tras Middle School in addition as an addition to Laney High School. So that's perfect. But to me, it's it's it's two things. Um, River Lights Elementary School to replace Mary C. Williams to support regional growth. Again, that affects the River Lights community. That reflects uh affects the Mary C. Williams because not all Mary Cone kids will go to River Lights Elementary. Um, so it's it hits two places in the county for me. That makes that that gets me to seven. Pine Valley on-site replacement school addressing safety and space needs is clear. >> Say where are the other kids going to go?

030>> I think they'll just end up just I don't know. Dr. Barnes has mentioned it a number of times and it makes sense. >> Could you ask a question again? >> Well, we're talking about River Lights and not all the the kids from HC are going to go to the new River Lights program. >> Well, I don't want to use the R word, but eventually the word redistricting when we have a new school will come up. I would think that the bulk of the students that are at Mary C. Williams will transition over to River Lights. The river lights big enough that it can also draw up some of the overages at 40% and off. >> Okay. >> So, I think we would have to look at the the catchment area for each school as

031it was built and make sure we're balancing capacities. >> Have we put any thought into Mary C. Williams what happens to that property afterwards? >> We have not made a definitive the board has not made a definitive plan for it. I will tell you that in my estimation and my look at calculating capacities, I do not think we will need both schools. >> Right. >> So, I think the board would have to decide what they would want to do with that land afterwards. >> So, that potentially could help. >> It potentially could. >> Yes. And Dr. Morgan, correct me if I'm wrong, but the estimate for River Lights includes the um demolition of the building at Mary C. Am I correct? It does. That doesn't mean we have to do that, but that >> But

032the cost is already So anybody who says, "Well, what about the cost of doing that?" It's already included. So if we didn't, if first, let's say we decided to sell it with the building intact with maybe a a deed restriction that it couldn't be a school. Um, but if they wanted the building, then we would recover that cost and it could go to something else. >> I wonder if it'd be worth more to keep at >> I don't I'm just thinking land land is worth what land is worth but with buildings sometimes that means it's worth >> it's a beautiful piece of land to put houses on. >> Um so and the others pretty much say what they need to say but that's going to be those major projects include districtwide enhancements. That's what's going

033to go out there in terms of public relations, marketing. Um, that's what the public's going to see through the media and everywhere else. So, if that's not language, Miss Barnhart, that you thought it should be or is as best it could be, now's the time to start saying and Dr. Morgan too, >> I just have one question. And I just want to clarify the the two sheets for River Lights and Pine Valley that show original budget and current budget. >> I just wanted to clarify that current budget is not the current budget now. >> No, that was the current budget back then. >> Okay. I just I thought it might be worth making that point for everyone. >> Back then >> and that was an Eddie Anderson email dated Monday, November 22nd, 2021. So that

034was 2021's estimate. Thank you for pointing that out. That's a very good point. >> So now it's even more. Somebody who does math well calculate the percent. >> And the the current numbers are we shared previously. So it's not I don't want anybody to think, well, we're going to tell us the new number. The new number is is, you know, it's in our packets from last time. I just wanted to make sure if anybody sees current, they know that this was current at one point >> at the time. It's not current today. >> See if I can who has that list that they can pull up real quick from Pine Valley and um River Light. >> So yeah, what what is the what are the new numbers? I just want to note them here in

035my notes. >> That's not the current. That's >> Yeah, that's what I was saw. So the the current projected estimate for River Lights is 53 million 855851. Yes, it is in that. >> Yeah. >> Yes, it is in that. >> So, it's not double. It's not blue and gray 28 to 53 on on U River Lights from 28 million to 53 million between um the first estimate and and the current estimate we actually have now. >> Yes. >> What about PV? >> Pine Valley is 56,332,42. >> Yeah. So, and I think Pine Valley was 29. So, 29 to 56. It's a huge increase. So, what it says to me is the sooner we build this stuff, the better off we are because costs are going to continue to go and go and go. Other questions

036in that section? Madam Chair, respectfully, I feel like the district-wide 40 million of building infrastructure giving more details to the public is going to be extremely beneficial >> because um when we're discussing projects and I understand costs are going to go up. We do have a contingency built in in that number. I mean the contingency was $5.5 million in there and then project management as well. So there is a buffer built into that bond number of 320 with the desire to make sure that every student and every school is affected positively by this. Um but I think that would go a long way when you're discussing even with the county commissioners. So, I can respect um I don't like hearing the March date about the conditions um assessment and full description, but if that's what

037it's going to take to have accurate information, that's most important thing is to be accurate with it. But when the commissioners are considering approving this, I believe that they need information that they can say this is discussing HVAC system, this is discussing technology, whatever it is. And maybe I'm maybe my examples are not correct here in this conversation today, but those are the kind of things that they're going to want to know and be able to discuss. >> Um, and I think it's going to inform their decision. >> I think we have a joint meeting coming up. >> We're trying to >> Well, I think we're waiting on that. And if if I may, I think there's a very good chance that as we're working through the company is working through the facility conditions assessment,

038we are going to be communicating with them regularly. So I think there's a pretty good chance we will be able to start identifying things. I'm just I just wanted to point out I don't think it's well we're going to wait until we get that done to to identify things. I think we'll be able to do along the way and we'll be able to talk with them along the way. I just don't know that the final report will be done before then. Um, so but I'm saying that because I understand where you're coming from with that and if I can get it that if I can ask them to get it done sooner and they say, "Oh yeah, no problem." Then >> keep that. >> Maybe we ask them to focus their attention on the HBAC

039systems first >> and then do the rest of them. But >> we can give you I mean our folks are skilled and understanding they've been working with these systems. They will be able to tell us which ones they are most concerned about >> to you know right now. So yeah, >> and I think let me correct me if I'm wrong with Miss Barnhart, but I think she's saying break it out into the 10, 10, and 20 and do that for all three so that we have the greatest understanding of the safety of the technology and then the the capital improvements like the HBAC here. >> We we're doing that. >> Yeah, >> we're we are doing that. And if I would it would be really cool if y'all would maybe even say, "Okay, under those

040three categories, the top five that we know right now, so when we meet with the county commissioners, we they would have they need something there more than just, hey, the HBAC on, you know, Anderson needs to be replaced." So something concrete like that. Now, you guys have in your packet after that list, you have these sheets in color. Um, and it says in priority ranking, so just ignore that part. But this is the language that will go out there. So if you have suggestions on how to increase the wording, modify the wording, change the wording, um, now would be a good time to do that. So let's let's go through them. New Hover High School phase one right now. Phase one, as proposed, NHS master plan would secure the perimeter of the campus. That's really

041important. as well as the catwalk and a new dining hall, new classrooms, a new secure courtyard on the south side of the campus and a new bus drop zone. Is there anything else that should be in there that we don't know about? >> I was asking is the security of the catwalk going to be is it going to be tied directly into a building? Will they still be able to access it from the sidewalk? What what security are you looking at doing to the catwalk? >> So, it depends on what phase you're talking about. Correct me if you want to take this one. We're in phase one right now. Phase three had more catwalk in it. >> No, go ahead. >> Well, yeah. I was so I was going to say it depends on which

042phase you're talking about. I think the first one the goal is to uh limit access to it from the street with some adding some perimeter around both sides of the campus. Uh, I think some of it is going to be further developed as we get into the next stage of the design because they're going to have to get in there and and essentially see what will work and what won't work. What they proposed in in the latter stage, I believe, is that at that point each side would connect into buildings on either side of the campus. So, I don't believe that's part that's not part of this first phase projection. I think they're talking they're talking about trying to limit access to it from outside and then the next phase would be making sure that

043it just creates an an internal loop for the school. >> So I talked to the mayor I say to your point Mr. H. I talked to the mayor about it because I've been told twice now that the city owns it and he said I don't know about that the DOT is not own it because it is a crossover the street so that that that doesn't allow y'all to close it. But as soon as we find out and she he gave me a name of somebody at the city that could look into that and research who owns that catwalk or at least the >> Mr. Walker I think we know >> the city owns the the floor the concrete the county owns the canopy. >> Okay. Well, he said he he'd be happy to or give

044it >> and our hope and frankly my hope would be that there are other a there are other places where the public can cross that street. they don't need to necessarily cross through the campus. >> Our hope would be that that would be something the city would agree to. Um, but that's part of the part of the phase one conversation as well is acquiring ownership of it. >> Maybe very open to just giving it, but I don't know if he's has an authority to do that. But >> have a problem. >> And Dr. Morgan, if I because I asked about that, that was one of my hang-ups with phase one is I really wanted that improvement to the catwalk to and I would if I could, I would drag it forward into phase one. But

045do you know a breakout cost on that part of the estimate for phase three or could you bring that to us at a later date? >> I I can look into it. I don't know it off top of my head, but I >> maybe there's a safety grant out there that we could go after somewhere that could could do that part of that, you know, simultaneously with phase one being done and then it would come off of phase three. Well, some of that, keep in mind, some of that phase three also includes additional renovations to other buildings as well to connect it. >> So, I don't I don't know that >> I don't necessarily know that getting the money just to >> to upgrade the catwalk will necessarily take care of it because I think

046the plans that have been produced connect us to the other buildings so that they go from the catwalk into >> Good points. It's about creating a perimeter first and then creating a focus group later, but doing that in this first phase would be cost prohibitive because the catwalk alone is going to be significant. >> And Madam Chair, um I was I don't know if I was part of that conversation or if I was easedropping in that conversation, but I did overhear uh what Commissioner Walker is talking about. And I think maybe that's something we should ask um our own folks, maybe uh Dr. Morgan to uh look into and contact >> formally reach out. >> Yeah. And do that because I mean that's going to be crucial is we we we do need to get

047ownership of it before we start putting a lot of money into it. I mean I would think >> hopefully it won't be that difficult. Doesn't sound like it'll be. Maybe it's just never been asked before. >> I thought DOT we needed permission from DOT for something um when John and Dr. Morgan quit their conversation. >> Apologize Madam Chair. I was asking if the current ADA, the current catwalk with its current ADA, it's got elevators on each side. Does it meet it has a ramp, but does it meet the current ADA standards? Because once you start spending money, >> good significant portion of money, you have to bring it all the way up to current standard. And that's why that's why I was asking the question was are we are we going to get this thing

048right the first time or do we have to do it in phases? I I believe that that has been taken into consideration in the design proposal. >> So I remember some discussion I think joint close the catwalk. Does anybody remember that besides me? Did I make it up? All I know is that that that and I don't this is just what I heard is that we're not able to do that >> but that's it would be a DOT or also but I heard Morgan has already spoken to them about it and the city does own it. Um I think when you say you could work out how if you cross down there um is where in the road I is or down in the other it's not that far. >> And now that you say

049that that's a good question. And I need to double check. It could be DOT versus the city. And I will double check that. In my mind, it was the same. >> I remember that conversation as DOT and we were in the conference room at um at central office. >> Yeah. If and and if that's right, I apologize. I >> I simply remember that. Yes, we're part of the phase is acquiring ownership of it. That is not owned by us, but we own the canopy. >> The mayor's office formally um and asked them, hey, whatever you have, can we have it? You said Meline. I don't remember her last name, but he said someone named Meline who could do the follow. Yes, Miss >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I know we had discussion um with New

050Hover High School and whether or not to include all the phases or one of the phases or two of the phases. And so I did want to bring to attention something that kind of got brushed over and of if we're looking at increasing the capacity of some of our schools and with the enrollment decline that we've seen to potentially repurpose some of the land with the option of selling that would allow us finances to help support further phases. Um I know there's been discussion obviously our funding comes from the county so county commissioner is having that discussion as well in endowment. So, um I I'm uncomfortable pulling more into the bond ask um knowing that the the phase 4 designs was to be done at one time. So, kind of picking and choosing from different

051phases I think would set us up to not be as successful as what the design process goes. Um but I did want to bring that to attention is the discussion of this. I think that we can see an opportunity to potentially re-evaluate some of our facilities and be able to recoup some funding that would go back into the infrastructure for the school system. So, I just wanted to put that out there because that's where I >> do we know what the value is of Mary C. Williams property wise, >> you probably find that out in the county tax. >> Miss Barnhard, I would say what you said the first part, what you said that we not pull from. Did was that in the form of a motion? >> I'm happy to make one. I I

052would I would move that we do not add more projects to what this committee had previously approved. >> You mean not bring from any of the other phases up into one or making any swapping? >> I would say any projects including phases of more phases of new handover or any other projects not to exceed the total that has currently been voted on from the board. >> I would second that for discussion purposes. Not sure I understand. >> Discussion. >> Yeah, I'm not sure I understand. >> Well, I had I had I when we first approved when first approved my only reservation with just phase one was all this we're talking about from phase three for the catwalk because that was one of my real desires. But I realized in the voting that it wasn't really

053a good idea to pull it out of three and put it into one. But I wanted to have this committee resolve in its mind. Do we want to do anything else? Is there anything else? And then in phase two, three or four that you feel passionate about that's been left out of one, now would be the time to say. So I either want to call it on or call it off. And Miss Barnhart's motion would then apply not only to New Han efforts, but all the all the projects that this is set >> regarding the catwalk itself. If I remember the phase three correctly, it was including the building of a building on the east whatever north side of the campus that would connect the catwalk to. >> Sure. So right. So I don't think

054I think that's why it was it was initially started to resolve the perimeter >> and then create the the space later on. So I don't know as if it wouldn't be just the catwalk, it would be the connecting things on either side as well. >> Yeah. And I'm agreeing with you. Once I realized that, I agreed. But I didn't want to walk away from this meeting today with anybody else having something else in another phase that they feel passionately about that we have not discussed because we need to start shutting some doors and move forward with what we're doing. And then both of our boards have to approve this after we're done. So, you know, um, >> Miss Bradford. >> Yes. >> Uh, just a question, a point of clarification. Um, I think the board

055has already voted on this. So if the vote, you know, if this committee can come back and say we want to do blah blah blah blah, we'd have to go back to the board and ask the board to change what they've already voted on. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Just want to clarify that. >> But before we have the county vote, we need to be solid, not only as a committee, but as our board that this is it. >> That's what I'm trying to get. >> Miss Bradford, I would I might just say wait until we have the joint meeting because we might get questions that obviously I'm not here. Rob's not here. He pro he's more of a builder type. I mean, I don't understand all of it. I mean, if it's cost-effective to

056do something that's in a different phase, maybe you would want to do that, but I don't know. And I might want to wait and see what other people >> Yeah. And it's not it's not that big of a deal. I just wanted to make sure the air was clear. So, let's move on to the other ones. And just so that we're we're clear on what is Trass Middle School, thousand student middle school to replace existing Trass Middle School. New middle school we built on the CEKC campus off Sid Road. Um, the existing population at TRRA would be relocated to the new building and provide classroom space for expansion. The existing TMS building would become part of Lanny High School campus. This will help alleviate traffic concerns and provide additional high school capacity. That's awesome. Bradford,

057I have a question and it's not necessarily a construction question. Logistically, would that mean you'd have to maybe redistric a little bit because you think where the location of that will be is? I mean, Holly Shelter is way up in Castle. is kind of up there as well. >> Yeah, I think you would experience the same thing that once that would be a reassessment of all, >> right? Okay. I mean, maybe they be cost related to the transport and things like that. I mean, that would be in operations more than anything. Yes. No, I know it's a lot to think about because I mean I guess it doesn't really pertain to the construction part of this, but if you if for example the district once it's built whenever that is, you know, you're going to

058probably need more for transportation. >> Just keep that in your mind. >> That is our most expensive project, but it does touch so many students. I think it's >> that project in particular is going to help tremendously with the traffic over in Lady Entras and we've brainstormed and we've talked about different ways to try to help curb that and keep kids safe. I mean because if you go >> if you're over there in the afternoon uh you are seeing a lot of frogger happen. Um even even with the best of >> I experienced that >> even with the best crosswalk helpers that we have. But um >> and I've seen this one out there directly. >> Yeah. So I I mean if we take the population of individual students at Tras and they're no longer

059there and it's the same amount of kids that are currently already going to Laney, I think that's going to help with the flow tremendously. Um >> I was just talking about transportation buses to track to the trash that's out there. That's all I was talking about. >> And when we do get this done, both Danny and Kim and I will be doing the Julie Andrews spin on top of a mountain dance in the parking lot. >> You and everyone else. I can't wait to see that video. >> If I may, real quickly, I have confirmed that the catwalk is DOT, not the city. So, I apologize, but to your point, Mr. Wavore, I'm happy to initiate those conversations. >> Thank you. >> All right. Are we ready to move on from TR? >> Next is

060River Lights. And um we do have the proposal from the 2020 era um the schematics um and so on for these next well these three River Lights Pine Valley but River Lights says a new 650 student elementary school to be built within the River Lights development. This project will take place take the place of renovating rebuilding Mary C. Williams and some punctuation there and help maximize capacity in this region of the county. So that's lovely. >> Miss Bradford, did you want to potentially put in um additional information on what will happen to Mary? >> Okay. >> I don't have an opinion. Do y'all >> Well, I I don't know. I just feel like to this farmer's point about like money saving thing, I mean that potentially could be something that could help pay for the

061River Lights area. >> So, >> I don't know what the value of Mary C. Williams is or if you want to sell it. >> It will be a vote of our board, >> right? >> Back into the >> Just think about it whether or not. Sorry. No. Yes. >> Will it? >> No. Will it? I didn't know that. >> Me either. >> It's awesome. >> Yeah. >> The the builds for all of our both new elementary schools are going to be zoned and built for prek accessible as well. >> I love that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that would also apply to Fine Valley. All right. Um so we can ask Dr. Barnes's team to come up with a language about the poss a possible sale of the land um rather than us created ourselves. And

062then Pine Valley, a new 650 student elementary school to be built on the existing campus to replace the current school. This project is needed to address safety issues of the existing building such as the pod configuration and exterior circulation. Men, will that have prek in it? >> Yeah, I'm thinking you need a word there between exterior and circulation. Student or population or people circ, you know, because circulation could be lots of things. >> Miss Bradford, I'm sorry to go back, but to Riverlights, didn't you mention um alleviating overcapacity and other schools as well with River Lights? >> Oh, yes. Yes. Wherever we're alleviating capacity, that needs to be added and adding prek. >> Since the demolition cost was already in this estimate, it needs to it needs to be in there as well like to

063as far as type of the project. >> Okay. Can I ask a question to my colleague? >> Sure. of do you think there needs to be a specific tell of where the capacity at or just say capacity alleviation of other buildings? >> I I think kind of cool is to have if we go back to that map >> have like this color is direct impact this color is you know benefit. Do you know what I mean? Like you you could really color this a lot of different ways. So you could have um river lights and then it be orange and then the schools that would be benefited by it could be blue or something like that. >> Yeah. And if there are significant I don't know about those other schools but if it is like

064it's important to know that that building will help others. >> That's a good point. Really good point. And I'm taking notes. And who where does this document live? Is this your document or is this Dr. Morgan's document? >> Whose document is this? >> It's a shared document. >> Okay. Okay. Then I'll give you Are you making notes, too? Okay. Um All right. Pine Valley. The project will also Pardon. >> Go ahead, Paul. Since we're talking about your schoolage, I just want to make a point that the verbiage for Pine Valley would be applicable to River Lights as well. So if everything it's for valley would would apply to rivers as well. >> Good point Paul. >> I think the discussion from last committee meeting was the justification to say that River Lights was a new

065build was that it was not on the exact same piece of land like Pine Valley will be on the same plot of land. Um but I agree with your sentiment because that's the purpose of really >> so you could you could on Pine Valley put um a point that um student population does not have to be reloc relocated during the build something like that because that's a there's a cost associated with moving the kids off campus to build a school um which for example when they did Ritzville Beach you know they had to um move them to the church and other places um >> but they will any associated cost because all these builds happen. >> Yeah. Everything stays in sight, doesn't it? >> Right. >> Okay. So that maybe not to my question. This

066is for the public, correct? All this wording we want to but it's not what's going to fit on. >> This is PR marketing media. >> No, that's correct. Um on the bond referendum though, um Eric, do you know what like you gave us an example of what it would look like on the ballot? Could it just list all the different projects on the referendum on actual ballot? >> I think the referendum ballot itself would probably just it's got to be pretty brief. So, it's just going to give the major project, but there'll be other documents we produce, but certainly there can be more detail in that we can reference >> so this is just for our this is for our purposes to go out and market it and into the world have a website where

067we will hold everything. >> Yeah. If I remember, the ballot just has, you know, like NHCS school bond referendum and maybe the dollar amount. Is that right? Something like that. >> It'll be brief. It'll have it'll call a question to um approve total amount and if there's any tax increase it'll have what that is at >> um and have a little brief part about maybe the projects touch everywhere but it would be brief. it would not have a full list that I'm aware of, but >> So, the county does, >> but the ballot will be in negotiation with LTC. >> Oh, I wondered about that. All right. So, can we leave River Lights in Pine Valley and look at Porter's neck? Port looks a little skimpy for me. Um, an eight classroom addition to provide

068additional classroom space for growing population of students in this region of the county. Um, this might be better. >> I would say this will address overcrowding issues, >> more capacity issues and I assume the cafeteria and all the other facilities at school are built designed to handle this increase in population. Yeah, it was built that. The thing that to me is a selling point is a it's 7.6 billion dollars when everything else is double digits. But that whoever did this um whoever did this knew that they were going to have to expand. So they have the corridor sitting there dead ending that this will tee off of. And I think that's an important point that it's I don't know what the language would be that it's it's like pre-repped for this edition. You know what

069I'm saying? It had to get if you had eight classrooms with the kids the cafeteria would handle the influx. >> You have trailers approved. So I assume so. >> But they wouldn't have created a deadend corridor to take on this addition. >> I understand that. I went to Laney when they did the addition in the 1980s. So >> it will create a logistical >> problem solve but not an insurmountable one. Just >> More lunches. Yeah. >> All right. So, we're going to add the >> we're going to add the capacity language there. Um, and at our next meeting, we can look at this again. Um, all right. So, then we're moving on to the districtwide. And I would say please break it out into the 2010 and 10 and explain each one. Um and and

070definitely make sure that we explain that it touches every single campus >> theoretically. >> I would I mean okay this may not be for this discussion but I want everybody to think about like I know the endowment and specifically in the documents talked about technology for education. So I don't know whether or not they would entertain that and it could come off here and I don't know if that's good or bad or indifferent. I'm just saying it it's in their documents and if they would entertain even chance of providing money for technology for schools, why would we not ask? I'm going to ask. >> I mean, why not? It's in there. >> And I will say that we have marketing people and groups that will do this work too. I don't you guys don't need

071to worry about >> the flash. We will get that. So, >> and with that said, um the Miss Barnhart, Mr. Wore and I spoke with the chair of the alumni for New Hover um this week, last week, and um they are very interested in helping us with that portion of promoting the bond. And then Dr. Barnes has been with the chamber and heard something similar. Natalie's not here to speak to it, but um he had an enormously positive response with the chamber for helping us. So the entities that will help us in moving this forward during that period between, you know, all all of next year through to the November ballot, we have to now draw them in. And so the um the alumni meet I think it's the third Thursday and um I know

072that Miss Barnhart, Mr. Wavar and I had already asked and been invited to come, but I put in the ask this morning that everybody on this committee be invited to come to listen to what they do. Meet those people because they're people that are going to be out in the community also because the new Hanover alumni want to see us approve this bond and so they're going to be a a great marketing force for us out. >> Oh, absolutely. I'm glad that you spotted that. There are a lot of alumni that are very passionate about this school. Look at that thing that I gave you from 2014 on the rules and rags. >> New Henry County schools cannot use its fund to promote a bond referendum, but may use its funds to pay for preparation

073and dissemination of information materials and pertaining to a school bond referendum. So, we can't spend money. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, I thought that's one of the reasons why I gave you that 2014 sheet because I'd heard Miss Barnhart say that, but I didn't know where she'd gotten it. And um we can advocate for it. Um even though we get a this whoever awarded this, we get a modest stipen for serving the board of education. I think it's kind of cute. Um so, we have to keep that in mind. And Miss Barnhart had suggested and I think it's an wonderful idea. We just have to figure out who's going to pay for it is to put a sign in front of every school saying the 2026 bond will pay for these things at the school and

074list them all. Dr. Morgan's job, Ashley's job, principles, my job will beformational advocacy space. So we will work together with that. You're going to see us doing a lot offormational sessions, a lot of comparing and sharing information with community. But the advocacy pieces will come from our other partners. >> Um, >> Eric, does that mean county commissioners cannot do it either? >> My understanding is that county commissioners do not advocate they provide information. >> Okay. So, this is tied to dollars. So, like >> I mean I don't want to spend money but I'm saying can I not advocate for it without spending money like when I talk to people or I'm not. >> Yeah. My understanding this is from the last um transportation bond we put out is county commissioners and anything coming from official

075county government supposed to be neutral on it. >> Okay. >> We'll talk about more of that later cuz I mean >> madam chair. >> Yes. >> I I remember the 2014 because I was a member of the Lington Rotary Club and >> there was they did the circuit. They did every Rotary Club. they did every club and um if the chambers run a point on this, they'll come up with the marketing dollars to do that. Whatever advocacy you need if if the chamber ends up doing that. Um but you in my role, we'll certainly do a town hall and an executive committee meeting because the committee meeting is the one the committee is the one that makes the decision. We'll certainly welcome you and open the door. But uh I think that you you'll the

076the information I think the commissioners and the board of education can do information. The chamber does the advocacy. So everybody's got everybody's got a certain color hat. I think that's right. >> And that reminds me, see they have you got you got the list of the 2014 bond committee members. And again, reach out to them and ask them what was the hardest thing, what was the easiest thing. if you know people on that list. Um, but the committee had a list of I think it was six to eight people speakers that would then go let's say um the Rotary needed somebody to come and talk about the bond. Well, first thing he said, "Oh, we'll send Dr. Barnes, but he can't do them all." So anyway, the bond committee had identified people who were kind

077of authorized to speak and trained on speaking for and then they went out to different civic groups and community groups and church groups and whatever and did the the talking part. So we as a committee can do that or we can choose not to but it doesn't it makes sense to me to do it so that you know where we we might just have some points but he's going to have the full package and whoever else is designated to speak to it in the groups but we should identify those people and not have it be random. Again, I think the first step is bringing this to the commissioners, getting it committed to the bond before we make that step. But we'll have several different interest groups that will be in support. There's PTAs, there's there's

078booster clubs, there's the chamber, there's the GOP, there's there's plenty of folks who I think will be on the advocating side of this. >> I agree. >> This is my idea is to have we have one more meeting scheduled and then we're going to skip December and half January. So, we won't remember any of this when we come in February. So, I want to get some of this just discussed so you'll be thinking about it. Um, and while we have Commissioner Zapple here now, I did speak to um the county about if you can't find a date that we have a date already set for this committee on the 18th. And if I'm not mistaken, it's earlier. It's at 10:30. I think that's the one is at 10:30. but that we could give up our

079time slot because we have two of you here and we have three of us here. So, we're halfway there and getting county commissioner and board um people in and all the other supporting staff into the room. So, um we could identify a December meeting date that we might want to just tie up loose ends in or not and let this be the last. But that was I proposed that to her this morning just because hering this many cats between your board and our board is really hard and then staff and all the meetings. >> The four clerk is as is working on it. I know she's got at least two. >> I talked to her this morning >> and I'm available for all of them. I think some one somebody else's. I don't know about

080>> Yeah. But if it if it works for your board to combine and I said, is there any way that we can bring my our board and your board and our staff together and then let other committee members who want to come and attend and listen and be available for questions? For example, if somebody had a question of Paul or Kim or um Phillip specific to their school, they'd be right there because rather than that, then we have to come back and report to the committee what happened at the joint meeting between county and and school board. So, it made sense to me for you guys to just show up. So, and again, just as we're distance, >> yes, >> until November, December. We're already at this point here. I would strongly suggest we try

081and pull it together by the end of October. We've got, you know, two more weeks here. And I know that seems like light speeded, but um the education portion of it to me, and I think I've been pretty vocal about that, is got to get focused and you know, so that we have a plan that will without doubt get out throughout all corners and edges of New Hmer County. So I just hate waiting for us as a as two boards. already know the framework of what we want to say. Can't we find a time between now and the end of October? I couldn't uh agree with you more about hurting cats on this, but we're already there. It's, you know, why are we we're losing time, I feel. And if if the school board is

082willing and the staff uh more than happy and I've already mentioned it to our county clerk, can we can we you know put this on full warp speed or wherever you want to to get this done? There's got to be a time and and I I'll say the absolute horrible thing. I don't even meet mind meeting on a Saturday morning. That's how important I believe this is. I saw your eyes go wide. Uh I I know that's that means extra time for everyone there. This is a huge deal for our community and it's a ton of money. The quicker we move on this, I think we'll be able to coordinate. >> I would think that would come I mean your board invited our board. So I think that has to go back to your people

083to say your chair and your and Kim and and and then they talk to Crystal and Ashley and Dr. Barnes. >> I know that Crystal and Kim have been in conversation. Chris called Mr. Gudre called me. I think that right now we're just trying to align schedules together. So >> I'm available. >> I I will make myself available whenever, but I I want to trust those people that are already doing that work to resolve. >> You're right, Chris. I don't want to step in anybody's way on that, >> but I I think there's an urgency uh to this next meeting. And >> personally, I'd love to see it in October. So, it's just But it's your people that are doing it, inviting us. >> Just got to make sure the school board is available. >>

084Yes. Mr. Boulevard, >> I was just going to agree with with Mr. Commissioner's Apple. I think it is very important that we go ahead and get it done, you know, sooner than later, >> you know, because it may be, you know, more than one one meeting. I think it probably will be more than one meeting. So, >> good point. >> You know, the more we can get going, you know, and get that the ball rolling, the better off we'll be. So, uh, you know, and I think we just need to try to find a date and if we can't get 100% of our folks there, then we just get 85% of our folks there and move forward and keep the other people involved and keep them get take good notes. >> Will you take that

085back to your >> Sure. I'm not sure when the right time is, but I've got a comment on New Hampshire High School when I briefly discussed and you tell me when the perfect time is. >> Um, I think we're ready for that. I mean, um, I think we're ready for that. Yes. >> Okay. um express to her briefly. The one thing I just want to make sure on New Hover High School is it's phase one which includes no renovations to the main building. We've just done a major project on the front side of the back building. I don't know what the condition of the middle and the back part of the building is. If it needs renovations anytime in the next 10 years, this is the time to include it in a bond. Um the

086debt capacity presentation that we went over was kind of a 15-year. It was a long-term schedule. And so I heard one of the board of education meetings a suggestion that maybe in three or four years the the board of education could come back to the county commissioners and ask for the phase two the renovation part but that's not part of the that's not part of the long-term plan and that would act to the debt capacity that's already been taken up with this particular bond. So there's certain structural aspects to New H High School that are critical to address the next 10 or so years. I think that needs to somehow be considered and possibly put into this. Whether it's swapped in for something else or not, I'm not sure. 320 is sort of the max

087and and that I'm comfortable with. That doesn't mean we can't go above that, but I would see it replaced somehow. At the last meeting, the chair mentioned somehow kind of blending a little bit phase two and phase one. That's sort of what I thought was was going to occur was the critical structural aspects of phase two would be moving to phase one and perhaps something in phase one would be would be dropped out as far as far as a priority list. So >> we touched on that a little bit earlier and I didn't feel like there was an aptitude for it but again let's talk about it because what we don't want to do is come back after and and and have sour grapes really of where we're at. That's why I'm glad Rob is

088here because you weren't here during the first part of this conversation because we were talking about the catwalk specifically, but how that's kind of in a different phase like some of it's in phase one, some of it's like in phase three or whatever, but if it's cost if it benefits for the cost to, you know, cheaper to do it like sooner or that's just one example, but to Eric's point about the rest of that building, it's beautiful in the front, but >> phase two was almost entirely renovation of that building was $75 million. I think I don't want to have happen to school 300 something 20 million bond in three years from now we got $75 million in repairs we got to do for neighbor high school >> I can speak to some of that

089um mo a lot of that has to do with uh building system upgrades and so as far as as far as it being recommended for phase two and following up with LS3P to me the question the question I presented was I have to assume that if you felt phase two were truly the priority, it would have been phase one. And they said that's correct. We felt like the the things that need to take place that they're recommending for phase two are system a lot of it is system upgrades. There's some structural things that will need to be addressed in time. And my question was, well, how much time? Because we, to your point, we we don't know that we'll be able to come back in four years. And the response was that's not that's not

090the concern. Some of the things that they have put in there they said could be addressed along the way with our operating budget through maintenance. Some of the upgrades that we're looking at for the systems and when I'm saying that I mean electrical, plumbing, mechanical, HVAC. So I don't think the concern to your point Mr. Kra I don't think the concern is that we're going to have an another emergency pop up that's got to be addressed. We should have seen. >> Does that make sense? >> That's helpful. >> Okay. >> Also, it's it's a shell game. >> Okay. If we want to hide the P under another shell, we need another shell first. So, phase one builds an extra building that gives us the capacity and the space to then do phase two while the

091students are still on campus. >> So, that was another reason for the way that the phases were ordered. >> So, can I follow up that with phase two? Where is that coming from? Because it's not going to be able to be done in a bond again. You might not have the answer to that, but we all got to think about that because if we're trying to roll into another phase that we need another plan just that's for everybody. >> You know, it's it's interesting. This is next on the agenda. Um but to talk just for a minute about Isaac Bear and I I got deep into that and now I'm in it. um in terms of doing some research and this is another one of those the count as I understand it the county isn't

092is supposed to pay for capital improvements of the schools the state pays for the staff and the federal does whatever the federal does and so you know if if we have a capital need if the building is falling down then we have to look to the county for it no one else is going to want to pick up that f that that pot of money and then we have this endowment over here which is supposed to be you know for schools. It's one of its main pillars and yet you know we can't look to them for for infrastructure. Um and so it's it's it's not my problem seems to be u common in both these in both these issues but at some point we have to address it. And I think that's kind of what

093Eric is alluding to and Amanda has her hand up so she's going to correct me. I can tell >> it would be a lot easier to address anything that comes up in the course of time if we didn't have a hundred some million of operating costs for the schools. So yes, our requirement is absolutely schools and capital, but we are also putting a hundred million more than 100 million towards school operations. Um we could all think about what a hund00 million could do today for the schools. So I think yes that is why we have to think about it. Our bond capacity is about to be maxed out um to the point where we may have to do policy changes. So if something were to come up what's the plan because do you forego 100

094million and you're operating for us to then cover it? >> Oh that that can't happen. >> But I'm I'm just saying that it's give and take because we are in a political climate where we're not raising taxes. So with us capping out our bond capacity that is something you have to think about while capital will be the what we are required to fund your operating will not >> or we may have to decide to look at projects that are citywide too and decide where the the level is too. >> Hang on. I got was your hand up? >> Okay. John's was up and John and then Josie and then Walker if that's the order there >> among the policy decisions you you mentioned does that include increasing the per capita debt >> yes it's that's

095one of the um items that we are looking at with the bond presentation that going through at this level are we going to need to raise our policy for debt per capita >> and right now we're at 2200 >> yes >> what is is there an estimate ballpark park what we think we have to increase it by. >> Oh yeah, we've got that um you know peaked out at 2643. It's above 2200 for 3 years. So we've talked about you know waving the policy for a short period um of three years or so to and then getting back in, you know, some thereafter. >> John, are you are you done for? Well, I'm going to piggyback on that because I thought the reason why we picked this number at the last committee meeting was that

096we were not going to have to pressure the commissioners to change policy. And so now I'm confused um if this number is saying that we're going to have to change policy. That was different. And and one of the committee members who I don't think is present currently today, we talked stressed that very much. It is not our job to be changing county policy. It's our job to be working within what we have. And so I'm confused if this 320 number is making us it's making us go over policy to push back. So then I'm frustrated. Why were we even presented that as an option if that's where it's being it's being stated now that this is going to change policy for the county? >> And my clarification that is what Eric just said that they

097they're talking about waving the policy for three years or so, which is just a temporary thing so that we can because it could then it pops back out after three years. So I think Amanda is saying that if we are going to ask for $75 million next year, the year after that would require a policy change, a big one. >> The 15-year plan was built on assumptions. And so the assumption was in 2034 there' be a big county project to be necessary. We tried to take all the into account at that time. If it does pan out like that, it may or may not be needed, but at the time it panned out like that, it is needed. We were saying that we thought there might be some comfort level at the county commissioner board

098if there's a a near-term prospect to bring it back in compliance to temporarily wave it for a few years. And that's a decision they'll have to make. But from a finance officer perspective, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable um recommendation to make. Um >> you're talking about about 10 years from now. >> That's right. >> Right. If a project comes up within the county >> doesn't pertain to this amount right now. >> Okay. That's that's what I was confused by of saying that this amount that we just approved and now having to change policy >> it will not immediately put us out of policy. So then my followup with that and I hear what colleague is saying about the operating experences because this is these projects helps us to increase capacity in elementary school which

099in discussions of what is that ideal number of students in a school that we can staff the way we want to. So we're not having part-time staff split between multiple campuses and that number is between five and 600 for an elementary school. So some of our elementary schools are not even built to that capacity, meaning they cannot even get to that maximum students that we need to keep a full-time staff of full-time art teacher, full-time nurse, full full-time this, that, etc. And so this allows for the school board to have the opportunity to say, "Let's re-evaluate our spaces such that we are optimizing our spaces and potentially recuperate some finances because the only way that we get money is by asking for it from the county, from the state, from grants, from the endowment. I

100mean, the endowment is is a grant in it in itself, but those are those are the only we have the availability to get funding. And so we're going to, in my opinion, continue to explore all avenues of funding. And that potentially is re-evaluating our operating so that we can optimize it. Not not firing staff, not getting rid of them, but just saying reoptimize how can we do things in a more efficient way. >> Yeah, that has to happen. >> Yeah. So, we've got about 12 minutes left and we still need to have a minute talk about Isaac Bear. Let me tell you what I found out in my digging there. And so, if we can focus towards wrapping this up and then move on. So, Commissioner Zapple. Uh well, I'll be interested in your comments

101on Isaac Bear because um one quick thought among the others that are here. Uh I don't think there's anybody in this room who would build a house on somebody else's property and that is going to be a major sticking point for the county. I'll leave leave that alone. Uh back to the the bond issue. I I think is part of the education. I'm just this is a softer portion of that, but I think a really important one because remember we have to go in front of the voters is we have this spectacular new facade of New Hover High School and the second that a kid comes in as a freshman or as a senior and goes in the bathrooms uh in that building and comes home and reports to their parents that I would never

102use the bathroom, which is which is what happens today or if in their classrooms they have cracked tile or there's cracks in the wall. In other words, there's I think that there uh the just the need for the renovation of the classrooms is as important as it was for the front facade. Albeit the facade was falling off. So maybe there's a little more uh priority to that. I also think that the numbers that we're dealing with and and Rob, I heard very carefully what you're saying is a lot of that renovation work in the classrooms is tied up with uh infrastructure, electrical, plumbing, and stuff that has to tear open some of those walls to get it fixed along the way and duct work for HVAC and that complicates it. But I know the numbers

103we're using right now and I I think I've spoken a couple times at this committee about is I feel like we've reached the point where we don't need architect, you know, per square foot numbers. We need to have numbers that are based in reality. Uh so that a construction firm I'll I'll pull Monteth out not I have no like that but if we go to Monteth and say if we give you 320 or 330 million can you produce the new cafeteria and music room and get the renovation of those classrooms done >> I you know in other words you know real negotiation and I you Rob I know I'm jumping way ahead and you're going oh my god what is this I you know don't do this to me but I think that we are

104at that point you know we're talking about dollars I think that the dollars we have on the table now will go a lot farther in the reality of you know what the project is but only if we as a committee say these are the projects we we want done here is the maximum amount of money we have to make this happen can you make it happen happen if they say no then we go to Thomas construction they say no, we go and there's a variety of larger ones that are here. It's just another way of going at it, which I wish we had all the money in the world, but we don't. But I think that it is critical that we address the renovations uh of the classrooms in building A or or the main

105building, whatever you want to call it. Those are my comments, Madam Chair. >> Thank you. Um, so if I can put that into my words, you're saying bargain the pricing down, the estimates down so that we could add new Hannover High School renovations from phase 2. Is that a correct way of saying that? >> Yes. which I know throws a little bit of a wrench into the works at this point, but I think in again in pushing it out to the public that we talk about the projects that we want done. Here is our goal and here is the dollar amount. I just feel very confident we're going to be able to take $320 million and get more done than what we are looking at now. All those numbers that the architects are are giving

106us at this point are based on square foot numbers. Now the only >> Go ahead, Rob. Yeah, >> sorry. The only counter-argument I would make to that is regarding New Hover. Keep in mind our information from handover is pulled from that $300,000 study >> that was paid for. That's not just estimates like the other projects. That's them either going in and actually pulling wall sections down to look and see what's behind. >> Correct. And so there were a lot of there were a lot of vendors involved in that process and looking at the the entire picture. So that's the only thing I wanted to throw out. >> I didn't mean for a second to belittle uh LS3P who I think is doing a great job. >> Uh and I was just trying to be creative.

107this no at the base of what I'm saying is we've got to address those renovations of those classrooms >> or I think we're going to get push back from the community and certainly those parents and the students who are going to a place where they don't feel comfortable walking into the bathroom which they don't. >> Is it the is it the classroom or the bathroom? Is the bathroom is the bathroom the primary concern? Yes. And yes, I've heard both. So, uh I guess I use the bathroom because it's something more visceral and certainly that's how it comes to me when people are excited or angry. >> I just had two go through Hannah. One's excuse was safety. >> It was It wasn't the cleanliness of the bathroom. It was their safety. And so, but I

108recognize the bathrooms need renovation or modernization. >> Yeah. >> Um, but I just and the reason for my question was, can we pick one or do we have to do both? >> Because everything else on here, I think these projects were chosen geographically for countywide benefit >> and I'm totally supportive, John. Uh, >> one potential, >> Mr. Bradford. >> Um, yes, but I think Dr. Barnes is >> Go ahead. >> I'm not going to try to speak for Mr. Sutton. He's way more eloquent than I am. Uh, but I would say one of the things that he looked at when talking about phase one versus phase two was that phase one and its creation of some new area for students could alleviate some of the congestion that's felt in some of the main buildings. some

109of the capacity issues that they have with the cafeteria, some of the capacity issues that they have with space in general. And um maybe to put it a little bit crude, if you have a hundred people using the same bathroom over and over in your house, that's going to be the bathroom that has to be repaired. But if you can spread that out across more rooms, then it alleviates some of the the stressors that are on those facilities on those electrical on those mechanical facilities that are happening and plumbing uh in that one building. I believe that that was why um the the phase one was kind of looked at the way it was. I don't want to disagree with you though that um that there are always opportunities to improve spaces. >> Thank you.

110>> I was in New Hover High School this morning and I will tell you that 99.9% of every day students there are working hard and going to class. I want us to build a plan that creates as much of a dedication to safety, perimeter control, and learning as the staff at that school is already doing. We got opinions from the staff. We got opinions from the students. We brought Philip into this conversation. I think that we need to remember that New Hover High School didn't get the way it was in a year. It's gotten that way over a hundred years. And the solution may take more than one year to fix. I think that creating a system systemic long-term plan is the right goal. Now, of course, we're bringing to the commissioners our plan. If

111you guys as a commissioners want to say that's not enough money or we want to add to it or we want to do it in a certain way, then we obviously will pivot and come back to you. We are trying to make the best long-term plan. Now, I think one something Miss Bonart said I think is really critical. Once we have new spaces, it gives us the the bandwidth to re-evaluate our older spaces that may or may not be the best suitable environment for students, but we need new spaces to be able to have the ability to do that. Same with new handover. I don't want to rip apart all of their classrooms and fix all the maintenance and and the infrastructure when I don't have a place to put those students because that disrupts

112their education. So, I I think this is a well thoughtout plan, but as commissioners, if you guys say I I promise you if you say that's not enough money and we want to give you more, I will be right behind that and I will support that 100%. >> But I think this is a well thoughtout balanced plan that I think doesn't overburden the community, doesn't overburden our taxpayers, and also gets us a lot farther down the road than we've been in a long, long time. >> Well said. Eric, did you want to say something? Okay. >> Can I just follow Miss Oh, do we want to go make a motion? >> Um, I'm gonna move extend by 15 minutes. >> Can you do that? >> Yeah. >> I want to I want I want to

113I want to talk about Isaac Bear for just a minute and then we have to talk about calendar. So, >> we got a second here. >> Okay. Motion and second. All in favor say I. >> All oppose? No. >> All right. Motion carries. I just ma'am before we start on I just wanted to follow up. I think and I might be wrong. What Commissioner Zav was saying is and what I have heard is the front is beautiful and I don't know how far that goes in but we don't want to ignore if there's anything that's very very important in the back side of that building. It's either I mean it doesn't have to be exactly beautiful all the but as long as it's safe and you know and their doors on the bathroom stalls I

114don't know. Um but I just think that's what I've been hearing too like and I think that's what we heard from principal Sutton last time just as a front looks really really good and it does. Oh boy, does it ever. >> Yeah, it's beautiful. It's We just don't want to ignore the rest of it. So, if that's a conversation we want to expand on, we can I don't know what the cost looks like, but I agree with Dr. Barnes as well. There'll be it'll alleviate some of the spacing problems and issues on the other side of the campus and then you can look at that and evaluate it. Miss Barnhart >> final just question of clarity is looking at um the debt capacity and staying under the whole point when we were doing this exercise

115was we wanted to ensure that we were not forcing policy changes. So in the trajectory of the budget is it allocated 4 million for capital for the next 10 years or what does that look like? Because when it comes to the funding of the next stage on on our end, we have to ask for money wherever it comes from, right? So, if we're able to secure money from the state, that's great. We can put it in for infrastructure. But from the county budget, is that was that built out in the budget looking at that of just saying we're have it the same amount? Just like you said, if we had operating, if we could re-evaluate our operating um to have some better optimization and potentially lessen operation costs, then we could put more into capital,

116then we might be able to recoup six or seven million towards capital. Do you see what I'm saying? I I I guess I'm trying to like look to see what is the estimation of the capital from the county and currently as it looks. So I I would say there's a few conversations or a few pieces of that there. This is more bond and debt related. Then you have your annual capital contribution from us which is cash funded and then your um operating which is also basic cash funded. Um, so we hold steady normally when I'm creating the budget for the next year, I hold steady at your current year amount and then wait to hear from the board on what is going to happen um and what projects are sent over and then we figure

117out where we're comfortable with that. Like I know this past year we had a much higher um ask come in and we brought it down. So, it's sort of that situation that I a minimum hold steady year-over-year and then the negotiations happen to where your annual capital is set. >> Okay. And that in my thought process is what I was thinking through of just what's that number to anticipate over that next 10 years so that as we're making a plan to continue to do the work, right? So, that's where my head was coming from. So, that make that helps answer my question. As a quick followup to that, Eric, what's what does 50 or $100 per capita reflect on a current ask? In other words, does that make does that question make sense? Is there

118is there a way to translate that? Because we're talking about I think you said 20 346 per capita. What does 436 per capita look like? >> Is that $320 million? Uh $50 additional per capita is $12 million. Okay. So that's taking $50 times 240,000 residents. >> So it's $50 equals what? >> 12 million. >> Okay. >> I didn't even think about that question. I'm glad you brought it up because there's a bond discussion and there's also the year the annual give and I guess because we haven't started the new budget year, we don't know what the ask is from the county for capital needs. But do you say you base it on last year? average is usually in the $3 to6 million range. Somewhere three three to five, three to six, something like that has

119been the average I would say over the past decade >> as well. Reduce it just for that reason if it's already expected. I hate >> but but I think the the the the analysis with the assumptions you have is that that $436 increase per capita will be reduced back down to 2200 in three years. >> Okay. Let's talk just for a quick second because in the bond discussion people are going to say what about Isaac Bear? What about Isaac Bear? What about Bear? So we will need to be prepared on that and I had a complete blank on Isaac Bear in terms of didn't really understand the history of it at all. So I sat down with our board clerk or well she's actually not our clerk she's anyway she's you know has an vast

120institutional knowledge crystal and the first classes at Isaac Bear were held at the old snipes building on chestnut 2006. >> Yes. So then the um the general assembly in Raleigh um rolled out an early college plan and from what I understand and I have not confirmed this and I'm working on a timeline because I work real well in timelines and I'm it's just at the draft point right now and it's I can't even share it because I voice speak my things in and then I go back and correct. It's faster than my hands can can do. But it looks like there was uh joint new Hannimemer County schools, um the university, the state, and then the Gates Foundation founded 28 early learning colleges in the United States, of which were in North Carolina. I have

121to confirm that fact, but it's an interesting fact. Um, but then how we got from Chestnut Street to where we are now is still a little bit gray for me. Um, but that one building has been in use since 2007 off of McMillan contiguous with the uh university's campus, but we found emails between Eddie Anderson and the board chair and so on. And we went back and um so the governor was Mike Easley and he said he sent some representatives down and said UNCW why are you not why don't you have your early college established at this point? So there was some pressure to get it done and to get it done quickly. And then when um Hurricane Florence came through um Dobo Hall was damaged and there were three modular units that had had

122a science um lab and and so on. And the the the the information I've gotten is it was good admin space, good classroom space, but it was about a million and a half modification to make it to where Isaac Bear could use it and relocate the modular units to the property behind the Taco Bell where that movie theater is that's been there kind of abandoned for so long. So that was the 2019 period. But what's interesting about Isaac Bear is that um Senator Michael Lee um went to the state legislature and asked for a little over $900,000 to create the plan that we have now for what would happen with Isaac Bear that big thick and if you want the copy then she has it and he got that approved and by the time it

123was appropriated it was a million dollars. But the key thing that I was missing in the timeline was Michael Lee didn't get reelected in 2018. And by 2019 things the the word was I wrote it down because it was interesting. The avalanche started particularly in New Hor County schools because um the superintendent at the time was Tim Markley. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and then um just a few months later um Mr. Frank's news broke and all of the scandal then broke and things just it just stopped happening. Apparently, Dr. Markley, I'd only met him a couple of times, apparently had a very strong personality and he and the chancellor weren't weren't weren't seeing eye to eye on Isaac Bear. And um the stipulations are that we would handle the the school district would

124handle Isaac Bear, but the college got to dictate what it looked like on the exterior. And there was some some um disagreement on that. But and so if you want some of that, I can share it. It is it's just interesting and I'm putting it together. So we're going to know about that. But I did find and I want to put this out there for y'all because I can read something one way and you can read it another way. But I have UNCC policy manual 400.6.1R adopted August 7th, 2006. Regulation for establishment of early college high school on UNCW campuses. So this is UNCC policy for the state. The regulation number six, let me read it to you. first sentence. The early college will be located on the campus of the university which will provide

125sufficient classroom and related space for the high school academic programs. And what does that say to you? That's an interesting document. Sounds to me that they want it there and they might pay for it. >> Well, again, Mr. Zapple's point, you know, I'm not going to build my house on your land. Um, that's another point. But I I I'll be honest. I think this thing got really political >> and then disaster happened in our school district. We had administration change. The university had administration change and it just fell through the cracks cracks. But they're sitting in a building right now that that's been used since 2007 >> and they're about done. >> So they're about done. >> I think as a county and a school district, we have to address it. not as a part

126of the bond, but we do have to address it because or we just um as one person because I'm talking to people off the record. I'm not gonna tell you who I'm talking to, but um one person said, "Look, just take those students and assimilate them back into your other schools and just move on down the road. You don't have to have an Isaac Bear." And I was thinking, "Oh, that's not really the answer I was looking for." But is there an aptitude in our county to give Isaac Bear, you know, a structure? That's the question we have to ask. And um where would the money come from? So that's the task of the um specialty committee, ad hoc committee, whatever you want to call it. And we're going to keep digging around in this.

127But I think if everyone talks to everyone and says, "Hey, what do you think about Isaac Bear? How do you think we're going to fund that? What are your ideas?" sooner or later somebody might throw out some idea that we could actually do and that's my plan as we go forward. But I'm going to continue now I'm in too to to back out now in terms of I want to know um >> Yes. >> You looked it up. >> I did look it up yesterday. First things first, we have very beneficial collaborative and com and complex relationship with UNCW. We have a lab school that we work with them. We also have Isaac Bear Early College. Uh the board actually since you guys don't know this yet, uh we met with the folks at UNCW

128yesterday and want to extend our current with them for another year. They do have land that they had set aside for us that terminates that agreement terminates in 20 27 as well. Um we have been in very close collaboration with them. We're looking at several different options and opportunities. I think um theou we currently have with them very clearly states that the cost of the building is on the school system in some way or shape or form, but we are looking at several different options. So we understand the value of Isaac Bear. We understand how important that relationship with UNCW is, but we're just looking for a couple different options. We did talk also about if we do build if we end up building on their land, there will be a long-term lease. it will

129be something where we'll have the opportunity. But again, these are long range broad conversations we're having. >> So, you know, it's it's progress, but it's not, you know, it's not definitive, but the more we understand it, the better off we'll be. And I think the attitude or the, you know, the environment at the university and and the schools is is really strong. Now, Dr. Barnes is doing a great job with Dr. Morgan and talking to them and sooner or later it'll get figured out. >> Bradford, I feel like we have conflicting documents now though >> because what you just read. >> Okay. But remember that we would have it and they create and and the general assembly I I have a copy of theou I can't find it right this minute but I read it

130too and they do conflict. They do conflict. Again that's something to um you know to to ask hey how did this come about? Why did these come >> in the other counties? >> That's what I will be. >> That was my next question. >> And and find out what's going on there. >> And keep in mind thatou that that expires in 27 was a different chancellor also. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I would I would give Chancellor Vetty another, you know, chance to talk about it. He might have some better. One comment, one comment that I had heard um from somebody at the university was that they just did their 10-year big study and there was no discussion about changing what they were going to do with this one acre. And I want if I'm I'm

131not correct off of Rose A, >> which I don't I don't even know where that is. So I was going to drive by it because I'm very very spatial like that. Oh, yeah. Okay. >> And it's actually the piece of property's on Flyer Drive. So, you go down road, you take a ride on re >> Save that and show it to me when we're done. So, um >> it's not hard to get to. >> Yeah. I'm just I just I'm I'm just I have to see things just the way I I do. Um, is there an aptitude hold date in December if we needed to? Um, I agree with Mr. Zapple and Mr. Wavore that I would prefer to have our joint meeting in October. >> Um, and then we we're scheduled for November, I

132just put it away, November 18th, and it's a 10:30 and not a 12:30 because of this space, this meeting space, but I did offer to Kim that if she needed our date that she could take it. Um, but I would rather not wait that long. Um, but do we want to agree to to a date that we might could do it if we had to in December? Because again, my idea was by our next meeting in November that we would then then just go for Christmas break and come back in, you know, late January, like the last week of January. So, we're just kind of and start over. So, I wanted to get a lot of loose ends tied up if there there aren't any. But again, I think we need to have our meeting

133after the joint meeting. Our next this meeting, I think needs to meet after the joint meeting. But if you at the county level would let the committee come to that just what's the aptitude of the people left in the room? >> I want to be as efficient as possible. >> Yes. Yeah. It takes a lot to put these meetings together and a lot of staff. I think it's great to timber off and see with with the um the joint meeting. I feel like we've got to be close to at least the commission side of what dates people can do. I've I've seen me and another commission were >> seen any in October. >> Yeah, there was there was I'll pull it up, but there were some in October. Did you did you push them all

134in November? >> That's that was my understanding that just changed in November had October and >> another kind of a small detail on this. If we have a joint meeting, it'll mean that it'll be a public meeting which means the press will be there. >> Yes. >> So, uh we just need to consider that in the discussion that it better be of like mind otherwise it's going to send a confusing message out to the public. >> I agree. M Mr. I was correct. There are >> November >> think because there were some and then they were taken out. >> They were on because there was some conflict there. But I I would like if the will is there and I think I heard it, you know, to go back to our county clerk and say,

135"Can we please take another run at this?" Uh here we are at, you know, October 17th, I guess. Is there some way that in the next two weeks that we could uh find a date that we could do this? to just to put some urgency to it. And and I I may be totally whistling in the wind. Maybe we have to wait till November, but it won't be for lack of trying to, you know, try and pick up the pace. >> Yeah. I mean, I get my vote. >> Okay. I think it's respectful to make sure that the public meeting and we're kind of on the same page >> it might be the window of notification that's why it has to wait. I remember hearing something about that because the joint meeting takes a longer

136notification process maybe. I don't know. >> I think what we can encourage everyone here to do is for our board members to respond to our board with available dates and times >> for you folks to go back and respond to your folks with the same thing. And then I have one 100% trust that they will get the right thing. >> We just need to make sure we get our needs to our people, you get your needs to your people, and you let them do the work. So with that, do we have any other business? Motion to adjurnn. All right. Meeting adjourned. Thank you everyone.