001Did you see? Sorry. And I want to say we're 11 months into this process and I couldn't be more pleased with what we've been doing. And we got through spring budget stellar shape. Everything looked really great. We had some hurdles after that, but now we move into the second phase of what we're here for and we have high expectations and I really really appreciate everybody's time that you're putting into this. Really appreciate it and look forward to where we are this time next year. So with that said, Jenny, can you call the role? >> Pat, >> I am here. >> Present. >> Barnhard >> here. Kim Clark. Paul Slavic, Hannah Moon >> here, >> Philip Sutton, Charlene Thompson >> here, >> Jared Worththington, Stephanie Walker >> here, >> Rob Zapple, >> Eric Cradle >> here.
002>> Amanda Kuziaak. >> Lisa Wartzbacher >> here. >> Natalie English here. >> John Hennitt >> here. >> Christopher Riley. Livian Jones >> and Livian had a work emergency. I believe Rob Zapple, I mean, excuse me, um Jared Worthington has a staffing emergency and may be here late. And so we're going to go from there. Um Dr. >> We're have Dr. Barnes lead the pledge and then we have a recording that we may or may not hear depending on the internet um from Pastor Tom Hower for invocation. >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okie dokie. I would entertain a motion to approve. Oh, wait. invitation. >> Hello, this is Tom
003Hower at Global River Church. >> We're calling in for the invocation to bless the board. First, we wanna we want to thank you and honor all those that give such uh support to our children, the education and the stuff that you go through. We certainly honor and uh thank you for your service. And right now, we want to pray. Lord, we just thank you that you are the God who is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above what we ask or think. We also know that in Jeremiah 33:3 it says, "Call to me and I'll answer you and I will show you great and mighty things." One of the great names of our God is that he is Jehovah Gyra. He's a provider. So Lord, we know for the finances, for the support, for the
004wisdom to be able to um figure out how to do budgets and how to spend it wisely for the most benefit. So Lord, we pray for our children. We pray for their protection. We also pray for your your your sovereign covering over all the board members for their unity and purpose. We know that u Psalm 133 says that God blesses and he actually commands a blessing when we we dwell together. That means operate together in unity. Unity is powerful. So is disunityity. So Lord, we pray for a unified board. We pray for unified decision-making. And in the midst of it, Lord, you're the one who leads, guides, and directs. So we ask that you lay out the pathway that all of these uh lo those that are called to this position would be able to
005honor both God and man. But we also know that the primary thing for all of us is that our children would be protected and educated to be able to excel and be able to face all the challenges that are before them in their lives. So we thank you Lord for what you're doing and we give you praise and glory in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. >> Amen. That was good. >> All right. this perfect timing to share something. Apparently on a news report this morning, um, communications person Deb Trafton said the following. If you care for our community, the best way to help is to protect the children. That was pretty neat. All right. Now, I'm hoping you've all seen the agenda. You have a package in front of you. I'll entertain a motion
006to approve. So, >> do we have a second? Second. All right. All in favor, we have a first and a second. All in favor say I. >> I. >> All opposed. All right. We do not have minutes for you to read this month because we had such a short window since the last meeting. So, next meeting we're going to have two sets of of minutes and then we move straight into uh we have the rest of the meeting is divided into two sections. The first is debt capacity with Eric Cradle. And then we're going to look at the we ranked our priorities in buildings, schools several months back and Dr. Barnes is going to give us the results of that. So that's we're going to devote the entire time to those two things. I would
007ask that we hold questions till the end of each one of them are through with their part. And with that, take it away, Eric. >> You have a really great handout and it's also going to be on the board. >> Okay. Um, did I think when I went went over this to the commissioners, maybe it was about 30 to 40 minutes. Is that too long? Would you rather me give a cliff notes version or is that sounded about right? >> 30 minutes. 32 minutes would be perfect. >> 32 minutes. Got it. All right. We'll shoot for 32 minutes. >> I want I want to leave time for questions and answers. >> Sure. Yeah. And um please stop me anywhere along the line with questions. There's a lot of of numbers in here and some I
008know this presentation very well and so I may skip over something important. So please uh please stop me as needed. Um so uh slide two um has an overview of the different types of debt that counties issue. Um general obligation bonds is is the first type that's listed. Uh they're backed by the full faith and credit and taxing power of the county. the commissioners are literally legally required to assess a tax rate that'll pay back those bonds. Um requires a voter referendum, which we've talked about some in the past. And then you've got from the date of approval, you've got seven years to issue the bonds. Uh and it could be done more than one issuance over that period of time. And then you can extend that for another three years if you get the
009approval of the local government commission. The other type of bond is limited obligation bonds. um those are just subject to annual appropriation in the county budget. Uh the bond holders have limited rights in the event of default. It's a little bit more streamlined process for something as big as what we're talking about. The typical scenario is you let the voters have their say and vote on a vote referendum. And so the general obligation bond would be the way we'd be going uh in this this scenario. Slide three um looks at the county's current debt that's outstanding. Um you can see on the right hand side right now we've got $182 million of general obligation bonds that have been voted for and approved in the past. We've got the the limited obligation bonds of $229 million
010for face amount of debt outstanding of $411 million. So 411 is what we've currently got. When you measure that up against our policies, that's that's that's where we currently stand. And that carries over to the next page, slide four. So, we've carried over the $411 million. That's the amount of debt we had outstanding at June 30th, 2025. We've got several county policies that keep us in good standing with the bond rating agencies. Um, debt per capita, debt to assessed value, and net debt uh service uh requirement as a percent of operating budget. The debt per capita has been the one that's historically had the lowest ceiling and that's the one that we go by right now. And our policy is $2,200 per person and maximum debt outstanding for the county. So we with $240,000 residents
011roughly. If you do that math, $240,000 u I'm sorry, $240,000 residents times $2,200 per person, that equals about $541 million of available debt capacity the county has. Of that we've got $411 million outstanding. So, we've got existing uh capacity that we could issue right now and still be in compliance of about $130 million. We again can we came up with these criteria based on discussions with the writing agencies to make sure we are prudent and and don't overextend the county's resources. That makes sense. 130 is what we currently got. Okay, good. Um the next slide really illustrates the fact that um we've issued that in the past and it pays pays down on an annual basis. So it provides additional capacity um assuming we don't issue debt with a principle of of greater than that
012going forward. It creates additional capacity. So in fiscal year 2026, the first column shows that we're paying down $47 million of debt that we've issued from the past. So if we didn't issue any more debt, you would take the $130 million, you could add that $47 million to say a year from now, we would have $177 million of debt capacity. And so you could see over the next 10 years, um, if you did the math through 2035, that's $312 million of principal payowns we've got coming over the next 10 years, just from the normal debt uh, pay repayment, paying it back according to schedule. So, if you add that to the $130 million of additional capacity we saw on the prior page, that would be $442 million we could issue over the next 10 years
013kind of as a as a gross amount. And then with that $2,200 per person, if you assume some growth in the population, um, according to the the North Carolina state demographics, that would in essence over that same 10-year period create about another $73 million of available debt capacity. It's about $515 million is what we can sort of safely issue over the next 10 years um in accord accordance to where we stand now and where our policy currently is. We wanted to look to see what our sort of uh debt per capita is compared to peer counties. Uh so this chart here shows all other AAA counties in the state along with a couple of other double A counties that are about our same size that we included just for comparison purposes. But you can see
014at our current debt load at June 30th, 2025, we are at $1,672 debt per person in the county. And you can see that kind of puts us right in the mid-range of the the peers there that range from 690 all the way up to 2256. If you sort of focus on the right hand side of this chart, you can see kind of the top four counties as far as debt outstanding are in the 2100 to 2250 range. Uh so that's sort of the peak level of borrowings on a debt per capita basis that are currently in the state. Uh so kind of keep that in mind. Again, our policy is $2,200 per capita. So, one question that came up that we wanted to evaluate was whether we whether our policy is too low at 2200
015or whether we could move it up at some point in the future if we needed to. This told me we're about where we want to be. We, you know, I really would not want to be in a situation where we would increase our debt per capita to say 2500 3,000 then immediately issue debt to get to that level because then we would be on the far right of this side, which is I don't think we're where we want to be. So 2200 to me still feels about right. Of course, I commissioners can always make a decision to change that at any at any point, but that was sort of my thoughts on that. Um, so 2200 feels like the right debt per capita. The next page shows that there are counties uh or municipalities across
016this is a peer comparison. Along the right, you can see other counties listed and the amount of their debt per capita they've gotten policies. A lot of them don't have policies, but you can see city of Winston Salem's $1,000 per person and then 2,000 in Meckllinburgg County and then a couple there have 3,000. So, we might would have justification to move our policy up, but again, as far as what's actually outstanding out there, we would really be an outlier if we were to raise our policy to 2500 or 3,000 and then issue debt that got up to that level. So, the next page is really just another peer comparison looking at our debt outstanding as compared to our overall property tax value uh property tax values that are on our roll. So it's just taking
017debt as the numerator. The denominator is our total property tax base. And the reason there's two um charts for us is um one of them's at our old tax base, which is what most of the publicly available data is still based off of about 50 billion. Then the green is where our ratio would be based on the $81 billion as a result of the most current uh tax revaluation. So this is just another guard rail just >> 81 billion. So, we look good. We look good on this on this guardrail. >> And our our policy is 1.6%. I should have mentioned that. So, we're well within that as well. The next page shows other GE referendums in the state since 2020. Um, they all passed. You can see sort of the dollar sizes uh in
018the middle there. amount. Um there's kind of two outliers, the billion7 in Guilford County and the two billion5 in Meckler County. The rest of them are, you know, within a reasonably narrow range. Uh and then you can see the approval percentage out to the right. Uh looks like the lowest is 53% at Pender County. And anyways, you can see the range of approval percentages, but they all did pass all all GEO referendums since 2020 in the state. >> Eric, um yes, sir. I see Guilford has two on here. Um, does the LGC typically are they do they put more scrutiny to these when you come back and every other year for another one? >> I think they look at them on a standalone basis, but I'm sure the billion seven got a lot of attention
019if I had to guess, but I don't know >> because that puts them at two billion if you put the two together. >> Yeah, >> good observation. >> So, there were none that didn't pass. >> That's right. >> Eric, can I just uh point out not all this went to school funding? That's I mean it's for all the general obligations. >> You're right. Okay. >> I just want to let everybody know that. >> I also reference Guilford County also uh this year is looking at throw closing and shuttering three of their elementary schools uh due to consolidation needs. >> Okay. doesn't have also lack of revenue covers. >> What you're seeing across the state in a lot of primarily every area is a decline in enrollment overall. Now, some people will be quick to jump
020that towards uh that's an opportunity scholarship issue, but the data the data has shown that about 91% to 92% of the people who are using the opportunity scholarships were already enrolled at places like that. I think one of the reports I read recently is showing just a decline in population overall, which I think is also part of that complexity of that issue. Does that answer your question? So, I would think it's more due to an enrollment decline than or sporadic enrollment decline in areas because obviously you can redistrict, but you can also redistrict past the point of common sense where you don't want a kid on a bus for an hour >> to get to a school just to fill it up either. So, it's a pocket. There's weird pockets in Guilford County, if you
021guys know, is very large and um demographically it's all over the map, you know. So you have places that are declining because you know kids are aging out of that area and then other places that are exploding just like we have. >> But that's go ahead. >> But this also um it reduces their overhead too and the functionality of the school system. So not having those schools open anymore will allow to better potentially use the resources they have at the isolated locations versus trying to spread them. So I mean that's probably also a consideration here. Sorry. Thank you. Good for commentary. The next page, slide 10, is a history of our general obligation bond issuances over the last 25 years. Um, we've had two for the new Hann County Schools. The first in 2005, was
022a voter approved one for $123 million. Uh, there's still 15.8 million outstanding that we've yet to repay on on that. Uh and then you can see the projects out to the right that that um that those bonds funded. Uh we issued just as I mentioned you can issue them over a period of seven years. We issued them um don't remember how many tranches but the last issuance was in 2009 so 40 years after the voter approval. The next one was a voter approved one in 2014 $160 million. The last issuance is in 2020. So 6 years after the the approval was done. We still got $97 million roughly uh outstanding on those bonds and you can see the improvements of those funded. And so we're as we sit at June 30th, 2025, we've still got
023112.6 million of of that debt outstanding about 27% of all debt outstanding. And then we've got some uh community college bonds that were done in 2008, $164 million were approved. U there's still $61 million outstanding there. And you can see the various percentages. >> So of your current debt capacity, New Hampshire County Schools is 27% of what your current debt capacity is. >> Our current debt outstanding. >> Yes. >> No, we've issued all this debt. That's how much we've not repaid yet. So we issued it in the past and >> we've been paying it down, but that's what we've still got left to repay. I'm glad you asked that, >> Eric. >> Yes, sir. >> And when interest rates were really, really low, did the county take an opportunity to refinance their debt? >> We
024do. That was under Lisa's uh management, but we definitely refinance bonds whenever we can. We review that pretty regularly. >> Okay. Just make sure. >> Okay. Okay. So, that's a history here. Um, now we'll get into slide 11. So, we discussed with our commissioners the the school's capital needs. We started out with New Hover High School. Um, the three options that were presented by LSP at your at your board of education meeting uh with the renovate only option at $137 million was on the low end. The high end was a brand new location and a brand new construction of a new school at 280. And then there was what was referred to as the hybrid solution which had an estimated cost of 233 million. Uh that would include um renovation as well as some additions
025to the school. Um and it was recommended that that be phased in over 10 years and those amounts are straight from the presentation. Dr. Morgan, I don't know if you want to address I know at our meeting there was some confusion about what what the renovation only option included and what it didn't include. Would you mind speaking to that? Sure, no problem. So the um the I think the confusion in the meeting was um the the misunderstanding that the hybrid solution was essentially the renovate only but spread out over years into multiple phases. Um really the hybrid solution is a little more comprehensive than that. It's taking what's existing on the footprint of New Hover's campus and expanding. Um, so I liken it to if you want to add a porch to your home or
026a garage, uh, we're taking what we've got, but we're going to add some new buildings. Um, there would be some additional renovations as well with the ultimate goal to focus on sort of enclosing the campus across the two street the two streets, excuse me. Um whereas the renovate only is really going to tackle the things that we need to get done in order to bring it up to more modern expectations. >> Is that helpful? >> That's very helpful. Okay, >> Rob, is that is my understanding $137 million, which I guess being a little old-fashioned is a lot of money uh in my mind. Uh that is on top of the eight to9 million dollars that we just spent to make sure the front of McNair High School didn't fall off >> and the what $3
027million that we spent on Brogden Hall to make sure the floor didn't fall in. >> Right. >> So there's an additional 11 million on top of the 137 million uh when we talk about the renovation, I guess. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Right. >> So, this is th those take into account the things that have already been done as you referenced >> um with the intent being that they will not undo those most recent renovations. >> It was also my understanding that there was some new building uh involved in that $137 million any new there are some new structures. >> Yes, I think and essentially the the hybrid version takes takes it to a higher level. I think ultimately what they're looking to do with the um renovate only is looking at getting things up
028to code based on what the capacity needs are where they stand now versus where they should be. So you're correct and I apologize if I didn't mean to misspeak but so in other words the cafeteria for example is not where it needs to be. Um we need we would need to spend money to renovate that to get it up to where it should be in terms of the space capacity. And so that is part of those renovations um without >> part of the 137. Is it part is it part of the 137 the cafeteria redo or is it part of the 233? >> It's part of the 137. But the hybrid also includes um some additional land acquisition as well. So it would be expanding the footprint that is there now. >> But we did
029put the heavy hitters the things that we feel are primarily of primary importance into phase one. the 137, >> the the phase one that you can see listed there on page slide 11. >> Oh, and I apologize. I'm sorry. The the cafeteria is not part of that. That's part of the hybrid solution. I apologize, Mr. Cradle. You asked that. That's not part of that new one, but that is part of the that would be part of the phase one. I apologize. I was >> So, to clarify only slide 11, the 137 does not include any improvements to the cafeteria. Correct. >> That's correct. >> They need a new cafeteria. Just going to say that I think just to say we know that I mean I feel like I looked at master plan and on the
030renovate only there was none of the orange indicating new building whereas I saw a lot of orange on the on the hybrid option. So I think I think it's easiest to think about this renovate only as being no new additions. It's just bringing the thing up to code and getting it where it could operate for 50 more years if desired. Is that the way? I I misspoke because I simply flipped the page and I was looking at it and that was I apologize. >> Okay. >> All right. >> So, Rob, let me pose the question again. Is there any new construction in the $137 million model? The one thing that they have identified is on the ma on the primary building which we'll label a okay the main building that has just been renovated are
031some connector corridors >> to the backside so that those wings connect to the center part of the building. >> It's not a new building. >> So it's not a new building, it's new corridors, >> right? >> Yeah. So there's it creates the flow, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Good. Appreciate that. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. >> Are you on slide 12? >> Yep. We're moving there. So that's >> where he says that. Let me just say these this list on slide 12 is the second half of our meeting. So we're going to discuss that in length in depth in the second half of this today. >> Okay. So we had slide 11, new hand high schools. We um and then slide 12 was kind of everything else and that's what's listed here. Um I I
032don't think it's any any particular order, although um heavy lines up with what we're going to be looking at later, but it adds up to 491 million. So when you take the 491 and then add it to the three potentials on the previous page, it would either come to $629 million, 725 or 772 in in the highest cost scenario for New H High School. >> Mr. cradle. If I can add one more thing that might help sort of encompass what those renovations would be since not everybody has the I know you've seen the presentation previously, but to keep in mind those renovations that they're going to tackle interior, exterior, roofing, HVAC, electrical, plumbing, and all code items. >> That's good. Great. Thank you. >> Sure. >> Can I just can I follow up real Rob
033doesn't include the security component cuz you know every high school has like a million doors and I know that was kind of part of the plan to upgrade the school besides the cafeteria. >> Yeah, we got >> you know what I'm saying? >> I don't think that would include any additional security items other than the new vestibule and the updating the locks to the exterior doors that we currently have in place. >> Right. The hybrid does address. >> Yes. >> Still got the renovation so far has looked awesome. So if you guys haven't had the opportunity to walk through it, I I really >> yeah encourage you to do it. I was there yesterday. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. So you sort of see the range there on the on the total the total list.
034Um now we'll go to slide 13. And this is sort of county only item. So what we're trying to do here is say we we can't allocate all of our debt capacity for the schools likely. Um, so we've looked at what sort of the county needs are um in conjunction with with with schools needs. Um, obviously the closer things are out to the near future, we've got some specifically identified items that you'll see and these are currently on our CIP list. So in fiscal year 26, we've got about 10,694 lined up that we would need to issue debt for. Um, and again, if you remember back to that first slide, we're only we're paying down $47 million. So, we still got a nice payown of a net of $37 million even if we did the
035full $10 million there. Um, I guess what I'm getting as the next few years thankfully are sort of light. We've had some more heavy issuances in the last few years and now we're paying it down pretty quickly. And so, we've got some sort of light issuances over the next several years. The next one that's greater than 20 million is in fiscal year 28. Uh we've got some you can see the items listed there that uh we've got earmarked for for debt capacity. Um again once you get further out sort of fiscal year 3031 um gets to be in the future. We've got some placeholders in the very last item very last line miscellaneous debt needs. You can see just $10 million per year for things that will be coming up likely during that time period.
036So we've also got three placeholders. Um, one you can see for senior resource center 25 million, cooperative extension 25 million and those are things that have been considered in the past but uh we've uh put out further on the CIP list and then we've got the big one that's got the circle around it is some sort of major project we want to reserve for just for something that might come up. Um it could be any number of things. We we've listed examples of jail expansion. Commissioners Apple noted that might be something to do with the landfill that's running out of space. So, we feel like we do need to have in our back pocket some debt capacity for a fairly large project 10 years from now, or else we wouldn't be properly preserving enough debt
037for something unexpected that might come up that we might need to issue debt for. So, these are the county only. You can see the totals running across the bottom and those are assumed on all the future slides that we're going to issue the debt that's on this page. So that sort of becomes the baseline along with the existing debt that we've got. The old issue debt consistent with what's on slide 13. And those same numbers you saw at the bottom of the page get carried over to slide 14 along the left hand side where it says county debt. So again, we've used that uh as an assumption that that debt will be issued. And then we've come up with scenarios for general bond obligation along the right underneath the orange header there for uh five
038different scenarios. Scenario one, uh this would be debt issuance in addition to the county debt. I didn't do a good job explaining that I think in the last commissioner meeting, but that would be in addition to the county debt on the left would be $137 million um issuance in scenario one. Of course, that would be for the renovate only you have assume no other projects on top of it. Scenario two would this would be either or. It's not laying on top of the 137 and say if we want to go with a different scenario than scenario one. Scenario two would be $233 million. And the idea there again was just to line that up with the hybrid solution for New H High School with no other projects included. Uh the next one again these are
039all standalone scenarios and they don't layer on top of each other except for the county debt to the far left. Scenario three would be $300 million which would obviously provide additional options for for new projects. And then we've got on out scenario four 400 million and scenario five 500 million just to see how it would look. And then we've assumed um that those debt issuances would be done again in in in series of different uh different years. You can see in scenario one where that would just be renovate only. Probably try to knock that out pretty quick and couple of issuances 68 million5 for each. Once you go beyond that to additional projects, laying those out over um the next seven to eight years, uh you see Ford issuances in each of the next four
040scenarios and the dollar amounts. So the advantage to doing it that way versus all at once again is in that debt per capita, we're paying down debt during the meantime. So in that year 2028 when there's no debt issuance that's um been proposed in the scenarios, we're still paying down debt from prior years. So it sort of creates new capacity which gets taken into account and all the scenarios all the graphs that we'll see that follow this. >> Yes sir. >> Um back to 13 in the CIP. Um I'm assuming the Holly Shelter Business Park I see a lot of debt being issued but there that that also incorporates the idea of selling off lots, right? So you're going to do improvements to the park and then you're going to sell lots to businesses that
041are going to expand there. Correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, can you explain what project market is? >> Uh, project market is renovations to the current museum. So, we're going to be moving into the project grace museum. We're we've committed to the community that we would maintain the current museum that we currently got. Um, and it would it's that that thing was built in 1938 and it's in dire need of renovations as well. So, that's would first time I've seen that. So, >> yes, sir. That's a good good question. >> While you're on the slide, I have a question about that one. Um, what would the ramifications be of just taking slide 13 starting at fiscal year 26 and just pushing that out a year? Push everything out one year. >> Um, it would help
042some, but again, fiscal year 26 is a pretty light issuance year. It's only 10 million. I say only, it's a big number, but $10 million. Um, when you're paying down 47, it would create $10 million of additional debt capacity in the first year. $10 million mean a lot to the schools. >> Fair enough. >> The North College Trail has needs to open in in concert with the North Chase Library. So, it's going to be a multi-use path that'll connect the North Chase Library to Rightful Beach. >> And I know, but when you're talking trails, trail schools, >> it's a trail by school. >> No choice for me. And I would remind everybody, hold out slide 14 because we're going to come back to this. And if I could make a comment, this means well. Um,
043so fiscal year 26 projects have already been approved by our board of commissioners. Okay, >> I may be jumping ahead, Eric, but is it logical to say that a bond that joins some county projects and some school projects together has a stronger chance of being sort of uplifted by the community or am I looking at that wrong? >> Potentially, these scenarios assume that the schools will be a standalone um on their own. for these projects we've got here would be under the lo limited obligation bond structure for the county debt is what we've assumed in this scenario that's certainly for the discussion >> um I'll make a comment in in my time here and I've not done a huge amount of general obligation bonds but I've never seen us combine those together >> um I
044I think the opinion could probably go either way whether or not um folks would support that or not. >> Thank you. Okay, now it gets tricky. >> Okay, so that's where the backbone we've got. Slide 13 and 14 makes sense, which are important. Um, the next slide sort of build just kind of show uh if you layer those two on top of each other, how that compares to the debt per capita, the $2,200 policy max that we've got. Um, so I'll start out on slide 15. This assumes no G gob issuance, but it'll sort of we'll look at this. sort of hopefully make sense and then the next slides will make will hopefully be intuitive as you get to them. But the dark blue bars would be the debt service we've got on our existing
045debt. So as you can see that trails down over time. I'm sorry that's the debt outstanding pays down over time. The green bars that you see that add to it are the county debt that we've looked at on the prior page. Um, so we're paying down some debt, but we're issuing new debt. And that becomes, you know, the total bar at the top. You can see in 2034 we would peak out at $500 million roughly, which is debt per capita of $1,787. And then the solid line that you see, uh, the orange line is where we where our debt outending would be at $2,200 per capita. So, as long as we're under that orange bar, we're within policy. This is a difficult slide. I think once you get it'll it'll make sense. I know it
046is difficult to sort of take in, but again the dark blue maybe start down 2025. You can see it shows that's that number is the $411 million we saw earlier. We've currently got $411 million outstanding in debt. >> Next year in 2026, we're going to pay it down by $47 million, which is why the bar gets lower, but then we're going to issue $10 million for new county debt. So that's why you see that little green sliver. and we end up the year still lower than we were in 2025 and we're what $380 million looks like something like that. The next year the existing debt continues to pay down and then the the green bar there is the new debt that's being issued and again to stay within policy this is all on the debt
047per capita basis. The the the orange bar we want the total debt outstanding from a dollar standpoint to stay below the orange line. The dotted line above that would be $2,500 per capita if we were to change our policy or we just want to earmark where where that where that is. >> And slide 15 is without issuing a a voting. Uh >> that's right. Yeah, >> it's assume no school debt issuance at all. And it's really just to set the stage for the next several slides. >> And I have a question about the per capita which I did look up and I have a better understanding of it. But if we're it if we're in the $1600 debt per citizen range, and this would take us to 1787, and yet our maximum is 22, we
048want we want you want to keep some fudge room in there for contingencies, emergencies, whatever. Um, in other words, we've not got anywhere near 2200, >> right? This one this one looks great in that regard. >> Okay. Thank you. The next page is where we start to layer on the potential school general obligation debt and that's the orange bar. So the dark blue and the green carry over from one page to the next and so we're assuming again our existing debt pay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I see the answer to my question right there. >> Renovation only is the orange scenario one. Scenario one. That's right. Wow. >> Sounds like children. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. Someone sent me a text of a kid I met yesterday in PE today. Sorry. >> There's got to be
049a teacher in the room. >> Oh, that's okay. >> Put it down, sir. This man's like, "It's day two. >> Come on. We need some grace." >> A >> Okay, so 137. >> So, in this scenario, scenario one's $137 million. Scenario one, you can see we get close to the $2,200 per capita in year 2034. That's being, you know, really driven by the green bar, the the debt that we've got that we're with holding back for potential large county project. But you can see that gets us up to 2,135 versus $2,200 uh per capita limit. So, does this slide make sense? Again, the blue and the green carry over and the orange is just is the school the additional school gification. The green is expected proposed county debt. It's not approved yet, right? >> That's
050right. >> The CP. >> That's right. >> Yes, sir. >> Sorry. Hi, >> Hi. >> Um, am I right in reading slide 16 and slide 13 in that one of the major contributors to that debt per capita is the jail expansion project? >> Yes. >> Yep. That's again that was just an example major project. >> Is is there a way to sorry >> you said ask for questions you regret that now. Is there a way >> to break it into two pieces to lower the burden on the community to say we're going to look at 137 million from here and then maybe a smaller bond of 200 million or whatever and and then >> for the voters? I mean, do you have to put it all in one bucket or can you draw down from
051both at the same time? >> Every one of these scenarios assumes a multi-year issuance. Going back to slide, I don't know if I'm answering your question, Dr. Barnes. Going back to slide 14, even the $137 million scenario assumes that we issue it in two different tranches. One in 2027 of 68 million5 and then again fiscal year 2968 million5. So it's >> and then it's it's it's >> we have seven years to issue the right the headline amount. So whatever the headline amount is, we got seven years to issue >> approved in 26 start allocating in 27 and then again later. All right. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt, sir. >> No, you're I get it. I get it. >> But it makes sense to do the total all at once, but then stagger it over time.
052Got it. >> Yep. Um, scenario two again is $233 million uh issuance. You can see we get above the line for two years there, above the $2,200 debt per capita. We go to slide 17. That's the $300 million example and you can see we come very close to the dotted line there in 2034 20498. So we did above our current policy for three years. >> You know I don't know the commission it's obviously with the commissioners but they could decide they want to wave the pilot. They could raise the pilots the limit. they could wave it for a few years as long as we got a good solid plan. But those are potential options um if they were decide that the 2200 had some degree of flexibility in it. Scenario four is on slide 1900
053million. And then the last scenario, scenario five on slide 20. I think this is the question that Natalie was getting at earlier. Can you to bring us back under that dotted line? Can't you lower the green instead of the orange? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's the overall total, not necessarily, >> you know, it's not necessarily the school bond that has to put us over. It could be changing some of the issuances of the county projects. Correct. Okay. All right. >> But and it's all estimate like the reason why the big jump in 2034 is the estimate of the $240 million something that might might need to happen. That's right. So this is is it's an estimation. So okay, >> good question. >> Eric, is there it says expected jail expansion? >> Do we have
054an idea what the sheriff's projecting the need? Is it going to be a doubling? Is it going to be 20% increase? >> Yeah. Um and in the ex example, not necessarily expected, but um you know, we keep an eye on their population all the time and I think the biggest thing that can impact them is just legislative change regarding what age and how to start keeping people uh detained in a in a jail. So they do their best to keep the number as low as possible. But um the jail is, you know, runs at a pretty high capacity all the time. If there were any substantive legislative change, that could do things. can also buy 2034. It's going to be 35 years old at that point as well. And there's nothing that we build that's
055more expensive than a jail. So that's the highest price. >> And I'll also add >> to build a school. >> Okay. We also add that there could be other projects like the landfield because that is a concern Apple talked about as well. Like that's that's we don't know what that expense is. >> It may not be a jail. It could be a landfill. It could be something we don't even know about right now. >> Yeah. We don't combination. >> If I can direct if I can direct us back. We have we're on slide 20 and we're going to go to slide 30 and we have 10 minutes to wrap up this section and I am inclined to ask for I know this is going to be unusual but a paper ballot of your preference on
056the scenarios. We'll give those to Dr. Barnes and he can let us know next month what those were. that I'm curious as to of the five scenarios how the the the everyone would vote today. Um and >> yeah, >> I'm going to have a trial here. So, I'll let him keep speaking while Dr. Barnes does the speaking. >> Madam Chair, if I could add in the discussion today has been focused on the new Hannover High School. I think if we're talking in bond overall, it's impossible to have that conversation without considering the other uh projects that >> this going to give us this is going to give us the consensus of this group. I think I know how it's going to land, but I'd really like for you to to share. >> Okay. So, what
057I I heard there was >> next meeting. Uh I I'm looking very much forward to getting into this now. There's an urgency to what we're doing here that cannot be denied. That's all. >> Yeah. How's this different from the ranking we did before? >> It's it's Well, this is on Well, maybe it's just a different way to look at the ranking. It's basically what's your appetite for how much you're willing to ask the county to spend. Um, that's basically what this is right now. I know we're getting to the list later on, but I think we need to have a major session about Isaac Bear because I think question well and our county manager brought this up as well and we know to be true who would fun that we brought that up >> again.
058I think I know how this committee would vote on that. Um, >> that's 46 million that we may not have to consider with this is what I'm >> Well, like I said, we're going to talk about that in a minute, but I mean, I believe I know the consensus here. We have a report on Isaac Bear coming up, but from where I'm sitting and and I'll just tell you where I am, uh, Commissioners Apple and Walker, I this bond shouldn't include Isaac Bear and it should not be only New Hover. There's no way that we can do that. Okay. >> But again, I want there's four other options there. I want to see where your appetite is. That's that's my concern about voting for these scenarios. I assume >> they all assume New Hannibmber and
059then >> except the higher ones. The higher ones don't. >> Yeah, they do. >> Well, the 500 million that's way more than New Hver needs. >> We use those dollars highlighted in here, but you could always take the 133 and say that's going to be for somebody else besides. >> Sure. >> That was that that was a good point. That was a good point, Natalie. Um and maybe maybe option six would be some new handover but not all new handover. >> Madam chair, may I >> go ahead? >> From the scenarios presented, it looks like the total debt issuance and where we land collectively between the schools and the so I did not see the activity to say this is saying what's on the bond. This is just saying how much debt capacity are you
060willing yes to say that's what this is. I think the assumption is option one is the lowest one for hand. That's the low bar >> and option one is only renovating a tool to understand like just at this one site is you know kind of the bare minimum. I mean so but I agree with what you're saying. It is not in reference to new handover that was just the because we had so much discussion about it like the debt capacity in total. So the the activities for the debt capacity in total not the projects themselves. >> Correct. We're going to do projects themselves in a minute, but again, unless we extend our time, we have to stay very conscious of the time. And Eric, do you want to do slide 2021 >> and 2021 before
061we do that, or do you think that that's needed at this point? Well, scenario five. Yeah, please do scenario five. It really follows the prior scenario. because this is at the $500 million level. And you can see there we get pretty significantly above the $2,200 limit for for multiple multiple years there. A couple of points to make clear. The last bond that the county did for the school system was 160 million. Four of your five scenarios exceed that by a huge amount. I just think we want we need to be cognizant of the fact that when we were talk having this beginning of this conversation months ago, we were talking about a number like scenario one and scenario one was the only number I thought we could float. The fact that there are four other
062scenarios past one is very uplifting for the school system as well. >> So we we we we show them. I don't think there's any way I could endorse for sure number five. Uh that that's really to show kind of the to get us close show some scenario that gets us somewhere close to the 692 million that was on the the uh the total needs list on 512. >> Has everybody marked their little >> um >> ticket? >> What? >> Go ahead and I'm gonna get Jenny to pick them up. >> What is it again we're voting on? >> Explain again. You're going to you're voting on scenario 1 2 3 four or five in terms of how much can you stomach in county debt >> of these scenarios these five scenarios projects >> correct we're
063going to do project second I kind of agree with Natalie dollar we're shooting for first >> I don't I don't know I don't feel comfortable doing that first you got >> Mr. Well, this is um what do you call it? What's the word? Anyway, your name's not going to be on it. We don't know your handwriting. So, we're just this is a straw pole. This is not like binding. It's just a straw pole. >> Right. >> Well, Madam Chair, uh also I think it's important to this conversation the difference between the govs and the lovs. >> The general obligation bonds are what go in front of the voters. The the limited obligation don't. And that's, you know, county debt that's taken on to kind of lump them together. uh you know for capacity I I
064guess is one way to look at it but I I just didn't >> well what Eric what Eric presented I pretty much assumed it was go period that you weren't looking at >> yeah so the amounts at the top already assume that the county debt is issued so the the amounts at the top there is incremental to the county debt already being issued for the county projects >> so how you're again I'm just trying to refine so I know what to mark down how much are we willing to spend on the rules. >> Yes, exactly. >> So, I I I I agree with Natalie. I didn't understand what she mean meant before, but we really I I don't see how we can come up with a number until we talk about the projects because we're
065we're looking at one scenario and two scenarios for handover right away. I think we need to start with which handover scenario. >> We're not binding you to this. That's why it's anonymous. We just want to see what the stomach level is for debt here. >> So, then we can then when we look at the list, we'll really be able to hone it down. Just put something on your paper and turn it in. Please may throw a dart at it. >> It does. I would agree with the the board of commissioners determine the amount of debt capacity that we can >> um based on not just hey there these are the projects that we want to do but all other factors financial perspective have to be considered. Um, I will tell you when we did this,
066and I'm not saying that that's the only way to do it, but when we did this in 2015, it was more of an effort of what is the priority of the projects for the schools and then based on what the county determined the capacity is and those are the projects that get done. So, it does seem a little backwards. >> Just if it counts for anything, I read a book sometimes from the back forward. Um, but it just it just I mean we've been talking about 100. Um, we got some excitement over 130, but now I just want to see I just want to test the waters here with the straw poll on this. Um, and then we're going to do we want to cover slide 21, Mr. Cradle? Um, it's the bar graph and
067the other three slides. I think we've covered the primary things. The bar graph on 21 shows what the county's total debt service would be in each one of those scenarios. How much would you have to make make an annual payments? >> Um, and I think really slide 22 would probably be more for the commissioner. Slide 23 has sort of the timeline that we have uh laid out. >> Yeah, if y'all can pull that one out and put it on your calendars. That one's slide 23 is those are our dates to to >> Madam Chair the I've had the advantage of talking with Eric on a couple of occasions in between the meetings. Uh and to me the slide 21 really is important because we can use that to translate uh what if any tax increase
068would be required to pay back whatever number that we decide you know the different scenarios >> and Eric if you could backfill for that I found that really illuminating. Okay. Sure. So, um glad to the uh the logic sort of sort of parallels but um without issuing any debt for the schools for general obligation but the bond issuance our total debt payments are the dark blue line. So, you can see in 2025 it's right at $60 million. 2026 about $63 million. And then you can see how it declines over the next several years again as we're paying back more debt than we're issuing. Then we start to layer on the geo debt for the schools. Scenario one is sort of the gray line. Scenario two is the orange line. Scenario three is the green line.
069So if you want to think about $60 million as sort of being the current debt service, the amount of debt payments that we're making, if you if it's right to think about that as being a baseline, then you could see that it starts to get up, you know, measurably higher than the $60 million level, maybe in 2030 with the green with the green green line issuance and certainly the yellow and blue. And then again in 2033 is where you can see a big spike up in the debt service payments as well. Um one penny of county county tax rates about $8.1 million. So again if you the 60 goes to 68 that's essentially a penny uh on the on the tax rate. You can see things remain fairly stable um at the $60 million level
070if that's the right number. You can see we would be anticipating otherwise a pretty nice decline in our debt service payments. But if the if we do issue some general obligation debt here, uh in most scenarios it would be fairly stable for the first several years. Again, part of that being because even the first year's issuance that we've got lined up would be I think a little less in most scenarios than what we've got that we're we're retiring the same year. Eric, is it given the context of the past year and that no is an appropriate answer, should we also highlight the years where we're going to go through a revout? >> Um, we could. It would be every four years. Um, we typically re reset the tax rate at that point. Um, but that's
071a valid valid. >> It is >> 33. [Music] I wouldn't get too sidelined by the reval discussion because we tend to reset the tax rate right back down to where essentially it was before. Um >> um >> John, also just a total sidebar, well I think in October, Lisa correct me if I'm wrong that we're going to pick up an initiative to accelerate our revals. Uh I think first to three years then to two years. >> I'm sorry. >> So much fun. >> Yes. >> Absolutely not. Well, I I think everybody in this room probably would say it's a good idea. I know we certainly think it is. So, we don't have such a huge jump after four years. >> Yeah, we are going to begin those conversations this fall. >> Lisa, did I just
072unleash something I shouldn't have? The only other thing I'd notice while the $60 million or $63 million you see there is kind of the current level um from the county level with the current tax rate we're having to dip into fund balance by $8 million just to pay the bills which is this is a major bill for the county. Um, and so it's not like $60 million is a is a great run rate um for us cuz you put in other required county expenditures. We're currently $8 million little $8 million short of on the revenue side. We're dipping into fund balance by a little over $8 million this year. So I don't want you to think I guess the point I'm going to across $60 million doesn't mean um it isn't an amount that we
073can easily easily afford. We're really not affording it this year. >> Okay, let's move to the second part of this and that's going to be your list. Dr. Barnes is going to tell us how we fell with our straw hole last time or time before and then we're going to talk about that list which is slide >> oh yeah it's the last page of your handout right there. So again, this is a rough estimate from you folks, but what we did is we took all the voting. You guys ranked these projects a couple of meetings ago when we were here. >> What we did is we assigned a number value for anytime someone put what was number one for them, number two, three, four, and five and sort of added them all together. And this
074is what we got. Uh River Lights came out as the first project. New Hover High School was the second Pine Valley and then Tras and then Isaac Bear came in at five. Dr. >> Barnes, why is the scenario for Hanover just a 137? >> I think that's the number we had to work with at that point in time because we started this before. >> So we could cross that out at 23. >> It makes a difference though. >> Yeah, we just had to we just had to select one of the options. So, we just selected that first option. And then we have a note a little bit further down that says there were other options we could replace that new handover number with. >> Do y'all believe we should just honestly the school board I
075think it's going to be bringing the commissioners their decision. Correct. Right. >> So, >> this body is going to make a recommendation to the school board. School board's going to bring to y'all >> on the which which handover hyperra which handover. >> Okay. So, I'm thinking if we uh we can either look at one, three, and four first and pull out two and five, or we can start with two and five and go to the other three. What's your pleasure? >> Let's talk five. >> Let's talk about Isaac Bear. So, we were going to have a report from uh Dr. Morgan on where he's landing with Isaac Bear. That's pretty fluid right now. There's lots of conversations going on. We had an ad hoc committee that we created to talk about that and so um
076I know we've had conversations so if you will report to us please. >> Sure thing. So essentially um where we've landed we we're still in a position where we need to figure out the best way to fund the Isaac Bear building if it's to move forward. Um we've had a couple of conversations. I think Dr. Barnes has had conversations with uh Watson College as well as the chancellor and I know Miss Barnheart and Miss Jones and I had a conversation uh with Miles Lackey at UNCW. Um I think really at this point my understanding is that uh according to the the MOA the school board is responsible for bringing funds to the table to build the facility. Um, obviously the question is where did we get that money? Um, I'm not I won't speak obviously
077for the county. I don't know what their appetite is for moving forward with that. Um, but I know that part of the conversation has been do we need to look at some sort of public private partnership in order to move forward. Uh, and that's that's really where we're at. We've got a lot of the information we need to be able to move forward. We've got the lot is located. talked to a couple other people at UNCCW who who are they they're essentially like, "Yeah, we're we're fine to continue the conversation. We just we just need to be able to figure out how we're going to pay for it." >> May I ask a followup? What is I've never seen a public partnership in a public facility. What does that look like? >> I don't know.
078>> Okay. >> I simply know that we've had I've heard I have been in conversations where that has been bandied about and so I have similar convers I have similar questions about it. I think >> and I have a copy of the regulations for establishment of an early college high school on UNCW campus that Eric sent me earlier in the week. So, if you want that, we can send that link to you or we can copy this and send it to give it to you on in paper, but it's just fun reading. Um I I don't think I'd ever looked at it before. And this, if I'm not mistaken, says up to a hundred students. And so I ask and we've got 250 students there. So, um, just a little factoid >> and if I
079remember back to my principal days, that was sort of the minimum number you required to to be able to float in early college was a 100 students enrolled. You have about 250. The nice thing about the sort of symbiotic relationship between the university and the school system is both sides benefit from the full-time equivalency of enrollment. So those kids help UNCCW's enrollment and of course still count on our ADM. The challenge is really we could probably move forward with a way of sharing space where teacher has a class from 9 to 10 and then you and then Isaac Bear has the the room from 10 to 12 for two sections. The only concern about that sort of widespread sort of collaborative sharing is the loss of cohesion with kids not having a real home base.
080>> Not dedicated. >> So dedicated space is important specifically for those kids in nth grade and 10th grade years. You may feel comfortable with your student as an 11th grader taking classes with the with the college and interacting and wandering on their own. Maybe not as a freshman, right? So, it's the idea of where do we share that dedicated space and sharing space together. So, that's part of what the conversation's going to be. However, UNCW is also tight and cramped on space as well. Their enrollment is increasing. They're looking to they're shoehorning people in already. So, there is a challenge regarding that sort of sharing of spaces. >> Uh, did I miss a meeting? >> No, ma'am, you did not. >> Okay. So I >> most of these conversations have just been happening trying to
081get a feel for from my side trying to figure out who has been involved in the conversation previously. >> Yeah. And I was one of those and I want to add to that conversation because you're building a piece of property on UNCCW's campus and I think that's where the where the the weirdness of this whole situation weirdness >> because who owns that building? the schools may pay perhaps for a building, but it's not on our property. Correct. >> And the maintenance and the overhead, all those things are questions that that >> So, I was able I had a chance to meet with the chancellor last week to cover sever sort of three or four different conversations and we'll be meeting again in a couple weeks to just talk about what sort of options there may
082be. I think there is a there Isaac Bear is going to be a pressure point just because of the complexity of it. scenarios where that well wherever the funding comes from that the schools could rent space as well like have dedicated space. I've seen the plans if none of you seen the plans for the school. It's they're well done. They were beautiful and I think when I was on the ad hoc committee before and talked to the previous chancellor they had decided that space particular on campus was the best place to put it. >> But that still and the time limited side of this as well. I mean people are going no they have to pay for it no they have to pay for it like someone has to pay for it and I don't
083know in a scenario where the schools and i.e. the county has to pay for it um where that lies where the rules lie where the ownership lies. It's very tricky and I know the building itself is is I think people should see the plans for it because a lot of work what a million dollars went into that work. >> Yes. um that was earmarked from the legislature. So I feel like the legislature probably knows they should be paying for this or at least part of it, but that's the tricky part of the whole Isaac Bear scenario. I mean, right now we're on UNCW property and the schools are responsible for the buildings, right? Inside maintenance goes for everything on the outside. >> Yeah. >> Is that correct? >> Okay. Um Yeah. But but as far
084as county paying, I guess that would be the tricky part. Like who owns the building because technically the county buys the property, right, for the schools, but the schools own it. That's, you know, >> that's rule. Yeah. >> Right. So, this is very weird. Maybe Natalie has some insight into early college schools because you had said before, usually the state usually pays for that. >> You did. Actually, you did. I remember you're sitting where John's sitting right now and you were like, "Oh, there there's not a scenario I know that the state did not pay for a building." So, Right. >> And is it correct? It's it's the land is secure to through 27. >> Okay. >> Is that right? >> Yes. >> And is there any appetite on the part of the decision makers
085for that to extend that deadline out or is that a hard deadline? >> I think that was but I mean we've had to have talked about it >> there. I mean the land isn't really the primary barrier. >> Okay. It's the building, >> right? >> Yeah. I don't I don't know that they have other plans that they're holding back on >> that. So, there's not a sense of urgency in terms of we could completely lose the land if we can't decision. >> I haven't gotten that sense from anybody. Um but I was going to say to Miss Walker's point, the MOA as it states um um the facility design development documents for leasing the property at no cost to the board of education. uh the board of education will be responsible for the source of
086funds for construction and renov maintenance renovation maintenance and operation of the facility. Um I I feel like a lot of that is kind of laid out in the MOA but I also as you said M Bradford this conversations are kind of fluid. I think it's just a matter of I feel like it's that it's a project that everybody really wants to support >> or we don't have the funds to support it. >> And if we have funds, where do we prioritize all of our other needs, >> right? >> You know, um and that's what we're going to talk about next. So, let's talk about New Hover next. Can I >> Can I ask a I have a request. I'm sorry. Can we get a copy of that um MOA? >> Thank you. Um there there
087also may be some underllayed um motivations. Um we don't know yet if Kmart's going to renew their lease. >> There's actually there's actually work going on in there right now. >> Yeah, the the insurance company's making them do that. They may that that site may come up for redevelopment and there there needs to be some collaboration with the buyer and developer of that property and and Dr. Barnes and Eric, I can give you that information confidentially, but there's there's there there is discussions to redevelop that site. And so when when that happens, it'd be smart to try and cooperate >> absolutely >> with the developer. >> You could literally walk from the Kmart building to the Isaac Bear buildings. There's probably a fence there, but you could >> Yeah. Uhhuh. Wow. That's That's encouraging because
088I've always thought that that Kmart building was where we were going to end up. Um, okay. New hand. >> Madam Chair, I make a recommendation here that we go ahead and and remove number five from the list on of the top five at this point because of the uncertainty as to what and where. If we're trying to set a a list here of priorities, I I am just on the very base level of considering investing $46 million into land we don't own as a county just on that issue alone. And I know there's a lot around that. So just for this conversation and for this committee to move things along, if we dropped number five, >> is that a motion? >> Yes, it is. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor
089say I. >> I. >> All opposed? >> No. >> Okay. >> All right. So, the motion carries. Now, are we ready to look at new handover? >> Run anyway. Oh, you want I mean, we have to discuss the appetite for doing >> only the 137 renovations or, you know, into the hybrid. And I think I know how y'all will vote, but I mean, I I want I want to hear. Yes, ma'am. And up. >> Madam Chairwoman, I'm going to try to be as respectful as possible with this conversation. Um earlier in the conversation we referenced how it's $137 million just to bring that building where it's supposed to be currently. >> Um so >> minus the cafeteria >> right minus the cafeteria. >> I do not like I do not like the um 137 plan.
090I'm personally in favor of the hybrid model. However, I do not feel like this bond should um fully pay for New Hover. I would like to see a joint effort with our county commissioners to talk about funding phase one um and making a plan for that in the budget because that's what needs to happen as well as maybe look at phase 2, three, and four including it in a bond. But we need to continue to move forward and I'm grateful for the partnership that we've been able to do. these changes are necessary um and they're needed and so I know it's a big number and I'm still willing to put a number on there for handover but I do want to see a partnership uh so we can continue the work that desperately needs to
091happen for that building. So >> Mr. Can I ask a question for clarification purposes? Um you said phase one do you mean scenario one or two? >> No ma'am if we look back on hold on I'll find the slide. If you look on slide 11, the hybrid model is broken down into four phases. >> Phase one 60 million, phase 2 75, uh 56 for phase three, and then 42 for phase 4. And that's phased over 10 years. >> But this is based on the hybrid solution, which is the 230. >> Yes, ma'am. So, I'm in favor of the hybrid solution, not doing the renovate only solution personally. So, I would want to alter that, but I want to throw that out there that I also do believe that we need to be working with a
092commitment of phase one and maybe considering the other three phases and the bond so that we can continue this desperately needed on phase one. >> Okay, >> phase one is $60 million. >> So, if you take the 137 and you divide it in half, you get 68 million. So, it's slightly less than half. So I would agree with Miss Barnhart that if we could come up with a county commission sharing of that half of it outside of the bond, half of it inside of the bond, I could probably support something along those lines. But any more than that? No. Any less than that? No. In terms of we have to address. >> May I ask a a question? >> Sorry. >> That that then though that doesn't change debt capacity though, does it Eric? It's
093just shifting it from Geo to Alab if you're right. >> So it's still we're still on. It's potentially you I I hear you. And yet and yet that means 147 and maybe 68 of it comes from a GO and 68 comes from an L but still limits the debt capacity for anything else. >> Well, or we shift something that is under debt capacity at the county level. the county decides to shift something that they've got to issue debt on and they shift it out a few years. Um, thank you. Um, but it's it's not a problem that's going to go away. It has to be done. >> Um, I think you should choose the scenario that y'all want and put it in there because it's >> Are you talking about the new handover scenario? >>
094Yeah, because it's already out in four phases over 10 years according to slide 11. I don't know. I just feel like that's if they if that's really the scenario that is what everybody wants, then just need to be put in there. Construction. >> I mean, >> also it also ties up debt that $233 million of county debt. Period. If we do the hybrid model, the way I understand it, y'all correct me if I'm wrong, finance people, but no matter whether it's an LO that the county decides to dedicate some budget to or if it's GEO school bonds, you're talking about $233 million going to one school. I'm not saying we shouldn't. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. >> Okay. So, what do what is your solution for that? Okay.
095You don't want to tie the capacity for 10 years, but what are you going to do another bond in what, five years? I don't understand. >> There are many counties who do bonds more often than we have ever done, but it's still 233 no matter how you look at it. So, I mean, we were going to take it to voters once, we're going to take it to voters twice. I mean, other counties have done that. It's just if you're choosing the hybrid model, that's the cost of it. >> Yeah. But the h the hybrid spread out over years. And so I would, you know, I'm naive enough to say, you know, we put the 60 in it into the bond and then we ask the county to come up with under their own steam how
096to do the rest of it over the number of years, not with a any kind of a bond. I mean, we're we got $87 billion worth of taxable base. The only way to tap into that is property tax increases. And Pat, I'm all for it if that's what you're saying you're supporting. >> Not what I said, sir. >> Okay. I didn't think it was. >> Not what I said, sir. >> If I can go ahead. >> So, so, so under the hybrid model, >> there's three P four phases. Is phase one and two essentially scenario one where we renovate only? >> Not really. So, I guess I don't know the I don't know the timeline of the scenario, so I don't know what it looks like, >> but I think that if you're going to
097go to the voters with something like this, >> we're going to need a real crystal clear >> blueprint. And >> I was really involved in ' 08 when we did the $162 million bond for the community college and it was crystal clear with Dr. McKethan was going to turn around a workforce development for us and they delivered it. And I, you know, we it has to be very plain spoken as to what the benefit to the voters are. >> And and I agree with Natalie. If we're going to drop it all on one campus, >> you're going to have a sour appetite. So, and >> part of the way the scenarios are built is to enable them to build while the schools are still in session. So scenario one builds another building across on Market
098Street on the other side so that you have enough space to then renovate over here. Does that make sense? So some of the scenarios are built in that way and we can obviously detail that >> but I want to speak pragmatically for one second. >> I fondly remember the days when I was idealistic. >> But if this bond doesn't have someone thing for everybody, it will be voted down. >> Yeah, I agree. So when you look across 1 2 3 and four, one of the other things we'd like to discuss is building in a million dollars a year for safety improvements for all schools. >> A million dollars a year for technology upgrades for all schools so that we can reach every voter in some regard. The way this is built out with River Lights,
099New Handover, Pine Valley, and Tras, it spreads the need throughout the whole county, >> which I think is a really important point not to lose track of. >> I I don't disagree. I guess my point is if you're going to pick the hybrid, how do you propose that you bring that to the taxpayers in a bond? >> I think that circles back to which scenario we choose for the debt. And my point is from what I understand it is the scenario one is just the renovation only. Scenario two is the hybrid. So if you >> No, I'm talking about his scenario for what? >> Okay. I'm talking about the new Hannover High School scenarios. I feel like they're completely two different scenarios because we already decided the third one is just not even an option.
100You're not going to build another school and tear that one down. So we know we're talking two different completely I would say completely but relatively different >> um scenarios for that school. The hybrid is just I've seen both of them. They're just different. So if if the choice is the hybrid solution, how do you pay for it? >> Well, and I think you may we may need to absolve ourselves of the fact that maybe this first 10 year span of time >> is just phase one and phase two of new >> Hannah down to 60 >> and that phase three and four >> just do the math >> are 2035 2045. Mhm. >> Yeah, >> that's a possibility as well. >> From my point of view, uh I think the lower we keep the new
101Hanner High School number, in other words, scenario number one, the 137 gives us more capacity to put those other projects in so that we don't break the overall debt capacity. My suggestion is we include Pine Valley, River Lights, Tras, and in my personal scenario, uh, Porter's Neck only because it's so reasonable at $5.3 million, $5.7 million as an addition, >> and it's still growing out there. >> And and add that to the $137 million for New Hover High School, and that uh works out to about 300 and $28 million. But I also agree with Dr. Barnes that we need to uh tack on that $10 million of safety upgrades with an additional $10 million in tech technology upgrades for a total of $348 million bond. Uh that's GEO bonds, general obligation, and that's what we
102go to the voters for. It's a lot of money and I'm ready to robustly debate, you know, any or all those. But that's how I see it. The more we head towards going back to the beginning, New Hover High School, lifting that up, the more it raises the overall number because I see these other issues as important or maybe even more important for the overall passage of the bond. >> Could you repeat that? >> Sure. Uh on on my list I have uh Pine Valley, River Lights, Tras Middle and Porters Neck along with 10 million for technology, 10 million for safety upgrades and at the and also the $137 million new Hanover High School. >> So that takes to the 348 million. >> That gets us to 348. Yes. >> So you're voting for the
103renovate only. That's what you're voting on >> that. Yes. Not because it's, you know, the best option. It is, uh, uh, I'm convinced as we go forward, I'm still hung up over $137 million only getting us a renovation on that. I'm convinced that we put this into the hands of another developer, uh, another construction company, you're going to see a whole lot more come out of there for $137 million. Is that possible in the short amount of time to get other quotes? >> Well, if let me interrupt. If you take phase one and phase two and you add those together, it's 135 million. So, why couldn't we do phase one and phase two instead of just renovations? >> Because we have to have the details out for the others, >> Pat, you know, of what
104that means, you know, if they're taking the 233 and they're cutting it into four different phases. you know, do phase one, phase two lead directly into three and four? Is there something we're missing? Could we cut it at at uh at after phase two? I don't know if those first two phases represent the renovation. >> So that's but phase one and 52 are five years, right? Since the whole thing's 10 years, so phase one and phase two is going to be five years. So that's five years out worth of construction. And we could deal with three and four later. I Pat, I don't disagree with you. I just don't know the details, but I know enough about construction that >> the two plans may not be as um compatible as as you're making them sound.
105And I don't know, maybe phase one and phase two take seven years, you know, because >> Yeah. and and I remember the phases. Um and and one of my goals is is of course is some buildings across the street and the cafeteria and the the the the >> perimeter >> the perimeter and the walk over and how they land inside the building. Those are priorities for me, but I just don't know that there's an appetite to spend a whole spend 137 million on just one school. Um but if you if you I don't know For what it's worth, I mean I I do think the way that if you were talk to the architects, I think they would tell you that the way that they have phased that project, it is intended to build upon
106each phase is intended to build upon the next or the previous I should say. >> But I do think it's reasonable to believe you could tackle phase one and phase two >> without without anything being unfinish, so to speak. >> Yeah. Right. I mean, all four phases complete the picture, but I think you could the to your point, I do believe phase one and phase two, if if it stopped there, you would find ourselves at a a legitimate stopping point. >> Um, not to say that we would want to continue to pursue those other two, but I think your question is, are we going to start phase one and two and have half the building we want to do? >> Yeah. And my answer is >> each each phase is complete on inself. >> Correct.
107>> And I think we have to acknowledge what's our what's our theme this year? 1% better every day. >> We're going to have we may have to eat this elephant in more than one bite. >> New handover took a hundred years to get to where it is. It may take us more than 10 to get back to where we want. >> But my only concern is I don't want to. We need to balance our needs based on what the county can absorb, what our voter base can absorb, but at the same time, we need to advocate for the kids in those buildings. So, >> but New Hover isn't the only need we have, which is >> I completely understand that. I completely understand Natalie's point. >> Yeah. >> But I agree with Miss Barnhart. I
108think >> and I do too. >> Says the hybrid is what that school needs to take it into the next hundred years. And whether you want to tie money up or not, I guess that is the question. And I guess my question is for Eric is like we do a bond. I mean, all right. Phase one and two will take how long do you think? Five. I mean, if we're spilling >> at least five years, >> five to six. >> Would that mean bringing a bond again is my my question. Or >> it could >> I mean I mean I have to think about it because these are these are the costs that we have. We we don't have the luxury of having other people bid on this and maybe getting it done a little
109bit for less. If we're going with these figures is what I'm saying and the choice is the hybrid solution then I just would hate to start a a renovation on handover even if there is a stopping point because you know I might not be here in five years or who knows. >> Well, Commissioner Walker, why don't we do a straw poll just by vote of voice on uh that suggestion. Um, but I would point out if we went from $50.7 billion in taxable base in four years and we're at 80 something billion now, in five years we're going to be over a hundred billion dollars in tax base. So, I mean, come on, that's again, we're a really wealthy county and our schools are crumbly. We have to we have to level that thing out
110somewhere. So, by a show of hands, out of curiosity, just How many of you are interested in giving all 137 in a bond to to the bond or splitting it up into the Say what you said, Josie. Sorry. Yeah, please. >> So, I I'm in favor of the hybrid model for New Hover. >> Yes, that's what we're voting on High School. However, I do think that we can have a joint commitment, but I I hear what you're saying, Natalie, and thank you for bringing to my attention. just a joint commission for the commissioners to plan for if they're going to be committed to funding phase one, however that looks like, right, of building in the budget over phase one of New Hover High School for the hybrid model and then that leaves three other phases
111left. So then a combination of maybe phase two is inserted in the bond for New Hover High School as far on the ballot. That phase two is what 40? No. >> 75. Okay. So 75. But that alleviates I mean rather than just this 137 number re-evaluating $70 million of potential projects. Now I have said this before looking at the capacity and evaluating the needs for our schools. When we built schools years and years and years ago, the capacity for elementary schools was much smaller than we're looking at now. So, we're looking at some of our smaller elementary schools having to pull and share resources because we want to give them all the resources, but we don't have the numbers to support that. So, I think personally, Madam Chair, I think there needs to be more
112conversation about that of saying if we really wanted to have isolated resources, meaning you're not moving between schools, right? assistant principles are not being split and pulled between schools. What does that look like? And on our numbers, we're going to see some of our schools have really, really low enrollment for that. And so to re-evaluate that too, which there's a potential conversation of maybe there's some property that we could sell back if we're able to do it >> to not I mean >> so with that being said I see some of these smaller numbers that could potentially increase capacity to get us to a point that we're able to still serve the number of students that we're serving but in one location versus two or three might be something that financially to benefit us and
113be responsive to the needs of our community. So, >> I I I think I'm glad we're having a discussion about New Handover as an isolated project, but yeah, I I I have I need to see the reports that they've done on it because I in my mind I I I hear a story about building a new building across Market Street, which alleviates some of the capacity from the buildings you want to renovate. And maybe there's a hybrid of the hybrid, you know, maybe there's a there's maybe renovate only with a new building. it. You know, I think there's probably another way that we could think about $100 million for New Hover only that that gets us a part of the way where we need to be and it gives us room in five years to
114to come back to the table or four years and we can only do we can only do bonds on general elections, right? So, so it' be you know >> every two >> so every so maybe another another bond consideration six years and then that gets us to the phase two of a bond project >> that is the fa that's the phasing that is the hybrid approach >> and and and to point out from slide 13 you have an unidentified $240 million in fiscal year 34 which is eight years out and if I take the four phases of new handover the first two phases ES are 135 million. The second two phases are 108 million. So it seems to divide the hybrid in half. Look at half of it now and half of it later. And
115Ashley's going to copy for all of us what those what one and two are. But can we can we get a consensus of this group of who favor the hybrid model versus the Renault model? So everyone in favor of hybrid, show of hands. Sure. >> We're just talking about not just a simple >> So, I'll just say to Natalie, we got presented with three schemes is what they called it. Three scenarios. One was just renovation. Two was a hybrid model. Three was a tear down. >> I know that. >> So, what we're talking about when we say hybrid, we mean the middle one, which is >> right. How does that translate? >> I think they're talking about adding. We still we still have to drill down to that. But for first we have to say
116rena or scrap and rebuild. Are we discarding those two basically is what this is. Are we scrapping just a renovation and are we scrapping new school and on a new location? 280 million versus 137. And then that leaves us with the one in the middle by default. That's what I'm trying to test the water on because if if everyone's in favor of scraping it off the lot and building somewhere else, then we're we're wasting our time here. And if everyone's in favor of just the renovation, again, we don't need to be talking about some of this. So, we need to we need to test the water here. Yes, sir. >> As we're coming up on time, I I wonder if it wouldn't be more beneficial because some of us are operating with more information than
117others. Yes. >> Because we actually watched and saw the presentation. Can you get the presentation from uh LS3B and make sure we have it here and deliver it for the next meeting so everyone can be operating from the same place. >> Jenny is making copies of the presentation to hand out to the committee members so you can look at what's included in each phase. Um >> that might help us all operate from the same informationational space. >> Yeah. >> Thank you Ashley. See that's why I have good people. I was just say if if if the majority wants to go with the hybrid, then that's going to that's going to lead the discussion on the bond discussion because we're talking about splitting it into four phases. The first two phases perhaps could be um put
118into the bond for handover and then spread it out with the other schools and then when we get there to the next opportunity to vote on a bond or find money from somewhere else to do it >> because we also need to look at our ability to complete, right? like >> 10 years is going to look like a long time, but not when you're building schools. >> Yeah. >> So, I think for me as your current superintendent, okay, we'll deal with 10 years from now later, but I need to also think about one that we don't increase our overhead. If we're opening a building, we're closing a building. we are at our ability to, you know, from what Josie said earlier, uh, Miss Barnhart, excuse me, my colleague to my right. Um, but I also
119have to be able to say that to the voting public, to the commissioners, to the to the folks in the county, if you give us money and it's going to be for 10 years, that at the end of that 10 years, everything's done. >> Like, we have to be aware of our ability to complete as well. just not because of us but just because of the world and you know the ability to construct and build and things like that. I just want I don't want to say pace ourselves but we have to be aware that New Hover High School may be a multi-deade project. >> Um I'll add to that. I think it's important to note that >> can you hear me? >> Pull a closer. Um, so the debt capacity, whether or not we
120make the um the 233 model one bond ask or two bond ask, the the debt capacity is the same regardless. >> Um, unless you're stretching it out past that that 10 years. >> And now might be a nice time for Ashley to share with us our straw pole result >> just so we know >> where today our appetite is. And then and I also before I do that I wanted to add and Rob you correct me Dr. Barnes you correct me if I'm wrong but um my understanding with the um modified approach those phases they're all standalone so you can do one and not do the other three do two. Okay. So I just wanted to make sure the group all understood that. >> Yep. So if there's four phases, you could pick you could
121pick you could do four and not do one, two, and three. And so they're stand alone. >> And so when we get the copy, then you'll see what each phase is going to do. And I think that'll >> build the hybrid method though. That's the point. >> Hybrid method. >> And slide 11 tells us they range between 42 million and 75 million with phase two being the most expensive at 75. So than that, they're about the same. And we could theoretically start with three or but that's another >> that's another vote that's another day >> and that's why Pat was trying to say which ones we drop off from discussing because if we're talking about the hybrid in the four phases no matter how that looks >> on a bond that's the one we choose.
122>> But again if this committee is in favor of option re renovate only or option new location new school then we need that direction right now. So, if we want to work towards drilling down on hybrid is what I'm asking you. Is that the one we want to work towards that we want to focus on going forward this next? >> I'm happy to submit a motion that we remove renovation only and new building, new site. I'm happy to do that. I'm not ready to go any further on hybrid. >> That's all I'm asking. That's all I'm asking. So, we remove renovation and we remove new location. So, we have a first and a second. All in favor say I. I. >> I. All opposed. >> Nay. >> Okay. Lisa, can you remind us what the
123debt capacity is? >> Yes. >> Or Eric. >> That's a funible number. John got >> Yes. So we have we have capacity to add 130 million >> 130 as of June 30 to 25 is what we we've got. So we had >> but >> well your other scenarios are larger than that. >> Again that takes into account the payown of the debt over time. >> Right. Right. >> So Eric, may I ask a followup? So um I think I heard you say I wrote it down but I didn't go back to my page. Um 47 million will get paid off before end of fiscal 20. Yes. >> So that's next June 30. >> Yes. >> Right. So we'll have then 137 plus 147 190 millionish >> 130 plus 47 >> 177 Thank you. >> And
124you did >> another way to look at this John and maybe this will help you know if going back to the scenario where I was using the 137 >> and the other school projects that I mentioned and the technical and safety upgrades to get $348 million as a base >> general obligation bond. You add to that the capital, the county capital projects that are identified over the next 10 years, $166 million. And then you add in year eight another $240 million that's been identified. You come up with that's a total of $46 million under the limited obligation bond. But the two of them go together to meet what Natalie's been trying to tease out and it comes to $754 million >> Total. The only way to get to that is for us to raise our
125per capita debt capacity. >> Well, before we get there though, we have to raise our the commission does to $2,700. We currently are set at $2,200. We're only using $1,600, but we go to from 22 to 27. Not saying that's good or bad, but that's what we need to do. And then we get to Natalie's point, raising the property taxes to pay back $754 million. >> $75400 million. >> And it doesn't matter in the next 20 years when they go on the ballot or not. And that is when the debt gets issued. >> My point being the lower we keep the number in the beginning, the more control we can have over this large number. Mhm. >> You know, and my nay vote on the new Hannover High School in my mind, and I could
126be wrong, Rob, correct me if we do the renovate only, that does not rule out that five years we come back with, you know, a hybrid or an addition to what could happen. I'm trying to in my mind I just want to make sure we have a really solid new handover high school but we also get all these other projects done >> and just to add another point in here Dr. Barnes touched on it uh is that every time we build a new school which we're considering with River Lights and Tras Middle School we now have the operational money on top of that. So we're talking about increasing the uh annual operational money. >> Thank you. coming from the state as well as the county as well to make sure they're run. >> Yeah. >>
127But you got to build it. We're talking here the $77 million is building a new one out there at CEK and using that property we have there. That's a new school. >> So it's new operational expenses. >> New operational expenses. Yes. >> Good point. Um >> well, yes and no. >> To some extent because Laney will shift over and absorb >> TR. Oh yeah. >> Increases to be like Laney Annex. >> Yeah. It'll be Laney, you know, 2.0. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. >> So Pat, real quick, let me just talk to what to what Rob said. >> You chose the one the Renault only, it's almost the same thing because I mean, if you choose the hybrid and you only pick the two phases to go in this particular bond, you're still still the
128same thing. You can come back and do the other two phases in a potential bond later on, >> I guess. But again, not knowing what uh phase three and four in the hybrid model, you know, are, you know, it's hard to talk and read at the same time. >> Uh that's the reason I hesitate and you may be right. You know, maybe phase one and two basically renovates New Hmer High School, in which case we are saying the same thing. I just don't have enough information. >> Yeah. And I would think before we meet again that you guys need to really have a solid opinion on what Ashley's just handed us out. We we we're at that point where we're going to need a solid opinion next meeting. And so we're 15 minutes over time.
129So I would entertain a motion to go over another 10 minutes. Can we finish this in 10 minutes or do we need another 15? >> I'll go 15 just in case we end in 10. That's even better. >> Make the motion. >> I'll make a motion to go over 15. >> Second. >> Okay. Okay. All in favor say I. >> I. >> All opposed. >> No. >> Okay. Um I would like to just have Ashley tell us what the results are of the sticky note straw poll. >> So 56% was for 300 million and 31% 400 million and the other kind of sprinkled but those were your big your top two. >> So the majority of those voting members was 56% to go for the lower number. Mhm. >> The 300 and your proposal was
130at 348. So it's kind of under what you said in terms of >> on my little sticky note I put 350 but >> you up. >> So that that that really I mean it does help me understand where we are. So we now have to look at where we're going. What's our next step? And so if Mr. Apple removed number five. So that then puts the top five as River Lights, Pine Valley, Tras, and Porter's Neck. Am I correct? >> Yes. >> Or did I skip one? Okay. So that's what we're going to focus on. Um subject to change, of course. um because it will be subject to change and now's the time to be asking in the community these others, is there a super super priority? I have to tell you the checkout clerk
131in the grocery store the other day brought up Porter's neck school to me. >> Okay. So, I'm glad it moved up because that's a lot of people are talking about that in terms of what's going on out there and I was out that way the other day. Um so, We we have our calendar from the county which says that's going to be slide 23 that in our October meeting we need to determine the scope. So we've gone from theories speculation today but by next month we need to have that determined. So, you're going to have to be thinking about this and then by January, we have to estimated cost for those projects finalized. So, we probably have some fudge room on that Halloween date. Um, but I like to meet deadlines when we can because
132sometimes stuff comes up. So, this next month, I really need everyone to look at that. But we have we have established some some lanes and boundaries here. >> Um, >> can I ask a quick clarifying? >> Yes, sir. Um, we said River Lights, New Hover, Pine Valley, Tras, Porter's Neck. >> I believe right when I walked in, there was some discussion about adding the technology improvements and the safety improvements as well as part of those priorities. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And Dr. Barnes to to his point, Jesse had suggested that, you know, in in just a round table a long time ago that we put a sign in front of every property that say, you know, if you vote yes on this bond, this will happen here. And that would allow
133us to have a sign in front of every school. Um, and Dr. Barnes has pointed out in the past that >> not bought with school money. >> Yeah, your tax increase will cover this. Um, but he also pointed out that if just the staff at the second largest employer in New Henry County, if they all voted in favor, we'd be a a long way towards getting a positive vote >> along with support from our parents. >> Along with support from the parents. >> So that that's all encouraging. Um, what else? Floor's open. I want to ask about debt service and I know said the debt per capita is listed on here but is there any um accounting for what the debt service level could be say issuing bonds at 3 and 12% versus 2 and
134a4% whatever that how does that get um squared so to speak we looked at one of the pages that showed our we've got a policy for debt service maximum compared to operating we're fine on that it's really going to be um the impact on the tax rate. Um the the interest rate of 3 and a half% for stock h matters some, but it doesn't move the needle a whole lot. You're paying down the debt, so the interest is coming down. I don't think I'd get too um into into that. I I think the numbers here are pretty good as they are. >> Anyone else? >> I was going to say, Eric, doesn't that matter? We have a AAA bond rating that helps with the the rate at which we borrow. Yeah, >> it does. >>
135So, we got to maintain that. >> We got to keep our phone. >> Madam Chair, at the risk Oh, I want Chris to hear this. >> Oh, we can catch him up. Uh with the if we build uh River Lights, if that eventually happens, something and I don't know what it is has to happen to Mary C. Williams. We know it's one of the last if we drop Pine Valley and come back with a new one that and MC Williams were the last of those the we'll call the older design. >> So somewhere in here part of this discussion I don't you know 10 million $20 million to go into MC Williams to do something a prek center uh a remodel to get rid of those satellite you know classrooms. We got to we can't
136just leave it alone. Can't just walk away from it. Uh, something has to happen to MC Williams. I'm just throwing that out. Unless you want to scrape it, even that will cost money. >> This isn't a Barnes only decision, obviously, because it would be a board discussion and board decision. >> I would say today that we will not need both Mary C. Williams and River Lights. If we build River Lights, I would either close, shutter, repurpose, or sell Mary C Williams. >> Great. Okay. And real quick, if you'll grab your calendars for that next meeting. >> If you'll grab your calendars for the next meeting, we cannot meet on the 16th or the 23rd, which are Thursdays in this space. Now, if we needed to, we might could go into the small room, but I
137can't remember. It seems like the county doesn't do Fridays very well. So, if you could rule in or rule out Friday the 17th or the 24th and then could you look at the 16th, Wednesday the 16th and Wednesday the 22nd. >> Which one? >> October September. >> We already have a September meeting set. I think it's the 18th. >> September 18th at 12:30. >> So, but October, remember, is kind of got a deadline on it. So, that's going to be a a really important meeting. So, we're going to need to see if we can pull in as many of us as possible. >> Can you give me those dates again, please? >> 16th and 17th, Wednesday and Friday, and the 20 >> Uhuh. No, I said it wrong. Then the 15th. We cannot do Thursdays.
138So, the 15th, we can do Wednesdays and Fridays on that third and fourth week. >> Pardon me. >> Which week? >> 17th. >> So, you can do the 17th. >> I can do the 17th. 17th works. Does >> the 17th work for everybody? >> All right. 17th it is. Woohoo. >> Yes, it seems to work. 12:30 works, right? >> Yes. >> Gets us out of here at a good time. Madam Chair, can can I ask that uh on the agenda for hopefully September's meeting that we have a active discussion about the promotion of this bond to identify the group, the organization, the strategy for marketing? >> Yes. >> Um that's it. Excuse me. It will not be very successful if we just agree in this room trying to get the word out to the voters
139and convince them to add I'll just say 348 million in debt to themselves. It will be voted down unless we have a strong marketing campaign. >> Yeah, I I think we all agree on that. And that's why I'm I really want um Natalie and John and Livian and our business community to be, you know, in in in on that discussion. So please come prepared with some ideas. >> Good >> for that. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? Entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> All right, everyone say I if you want to adjourn. >> Meeting is adjourned. Thank you. This we covered a lot. This was good. I'm exhausted.