WSD Board Meeting - Special - April 21, 2026

001April 21st, 2026 special school board meeting to order. It is 6:01 p.m. We are in conference room C of the Fiser Administration building at 12121 West North Avenue. Miss Oh, Miss Summers isn't here. I'm Miss Summers tonight. Um, I'm going to call the role. Miss Bach here. Mr. Bower here. Mr. >> Bzinski here. >> Miss Himl Roland >> here. >> Mr. Morris is excused. Mr. Wier and I'm here. Great. Thank you. We'll move to item two, public comment. because we never know when we might have someone new at public comment. Um, I will go ahead and read our public comment policy and then we will welcome public comment first from the room and then from online. This is policy 0167.3 public comment at board meetings. Members of the board value the input of students, parents,

002staff members, and community members. The board's regularly scheduled meetings provide an opportunity for opinions and concerns to be expressed publicly. The board values all comments and will respectfully consider this input in decision-making. The board will take public comment on both non-aggenda items and agenda items at each regular board meeting and may take public comment during special board meetings. The public comment period will occur near the beginning of the meeting and shall not exceed 30 minutes in length unless extended by the presiding officer or a vote of the board. Individuals must limit their comments to three minutes. Participants must be recognized by the presiding officer and will be requested to preface their comments by an announcement of their name. Public comments submitted to the schoolboard email address by 10:00 a.m. on the day of the meeting

003of the bo of the board will be added to the online meeting documents to become part of public record. Emmailed public comments must include the name of the person submitting the comment. All public comments shall be directed to the presiding officer. No person may address or question board members individually or direct statements, comments, or questions to staff or other meeting participants. Board members are obligated to follow the Wisconsin open meeting law, which requires advanced notification to the community of the board's intent to discuss and or take action on an item. If a public comment concerns an item that is not on the current meeting agenda, board members may not respond other than to thank and acknowledge the speaker for their input. The presiding officer may a limit the number of times the speaker may comment

004on the same topic. B interrupt, warn, or terminate a public comment when the statement is too lengthy, directed to anyone other than the board presiding officer, obscene or disorderly. C. requests any individual to leave the meeting when the person engages in conduct which is disorderly. D. Requests the assistance of law enforcement officers and/or security officials in the removal of a disorderly person when that person's conduct interferes with the orderly progress of the meeting. E call for a recess or an adjournment to another time when disorderly conduct so interferes with the orderly conduct of the meeting as to warrant such action. F. wave these rules with the approval of the board when necessary for the protection of privacy or the administration of the board's business. Recording, filming, or photographing board meetings is permitted. The person operating

005the equipment should contact the superintendent prior to the board meeting to review possible placement of the equipment and must agree to abide by the following conditions. A no obstructions are created between the board and the audience. B. No interviews are conducted in the meeting room while the board is in session. C. No commentary, adjustment of equipment, or positioning of operators is made that would distract either the board or members of the audience or otherwise disrupt the meeting while the board is in session. The board encourages all residents to be well informed about school affairs. Therefore, regular board meetings are livereamed and the recorded schoolboard meetings are available for viewing online on the district's website. Executive sessions and inservices for board members are not recorded. Thank you. So, we're going to start uh with any public

006comment in the room. Okay. I'm not seeing any. So, we'll go to online. I do say that see that there is one hand that is raised. >> Sykes, you can talk now. Thank you. Hello, my name is Carrie Sykes. I have a fourth grader at Eisenhower and a sixth grader at Whitman. I just wanted to comment and say I realize this is a really challenging and timeconsuming process for everyone involved, the district and the board. What I want to share is a personal situation. at Eisenhower when my son was in first grade. The behavior was extremely challenging. The data show that the board presented in a February meeting that there were 100 incidents in his class alone in Eisenhower. That was significantly above the rest of the district. It has come a very long way

007since that time. I'm so thankful he's at Eisenhower with the community he's with right now. I know there's a lot of changes coming and again a lot of things that the district and the board have to consider. I realize from your meeting last Monday and I understand your business plan to consider ending the social emotional position. I understand the business that you presented to the board. What I ask you to consider is that while the plan and I understand the need to apply it consistently, it may be an option for the district to consider the data that's been at Eisenhower since that year. We've now reduced deans. We've implemented strategies and a lot of that came from our specific social emotional person. I understand again why the district is trying to make the consistency. I

008understand that they said it didn't work at all buildings. However, with the data working at our building, I ask you to consider that that position stays and potentially apply change when there is turnover to the staff. There's a lot that goes into building those resources and building those relationships with the children. both the children that have some challenges and those that are around those in crisis and don't have challenges every day. We have gotten a ton of support from additional individuals in the building and that has been appreciated. But again, there's one individual at that building that makes such a big difference and the data will show that. So, I really hope you consider when you're making these decisions that while again I understand a business has to make a decision and that it may

009rubber stamp across every institution, they could make a decision to know that that change could apply on a go forward basis when the turnover occurs and the data supports keeping that individual in the building. I'm happy to bring up other examples from other parents besides myself. It's been a short time to try to gather the data, but I just want to make sure it's said because it's made such an impact on our community for these years. Thank you. >> You thanks for um being part of public comment and for um sharing your thoughts and humanizing this process. It's so important and we will continue to remember this evening that we're talking not just about positions but also people. Um and so we appreciate um you coming forward and sharing your own experience and reminding us

010uh to keep that in in the center of our work as we go forward. I am not seeing any other hands online. Are there is there any other comment in the room? Okay, seeing none, I'm going to close public comment. >> I just recognize that we did have received lots of public comments via email over the last more than the last week. So, thank you to everyone in the community and in schools for reaching out with what you had to say. >> Thank you for saying that. It's been great. We've been hearing public comment from um community members, family members, staff um in the district and it's very helpful. Uh these are hard tough decisions um as our as our public comment speaker said and it's good for us to get some guidance. Just a

011reminder, there is no action being taken tonight. we've added this extra meeting in order to try to continue to collaborate and come up with the best case scenario that we can um given all of the challenges that face the district on the financial side. Um we want to make sure that we're making the the best possible way forward. Um so uh we will just be discussing tonight. Our action um on this topic won't be until next Monday. So plenty more time to to reach out um with your comments during the coming week. Anything else from board members? Okay. So um we will go on to um item number three, discussion of staffing plan. I'm going to turn this over I think first to Dr. Means to set this up and then we will move forward

012with our four item for this evening. >> Thank you Dr. Orland board members, community members. This is um there's over 400 school districts in the state of Wisconsin who are dealing with very similar conversations across our state right now. Um as Mr. Ecker grounded us last last week, we are in a position where we will need to make reductions over the next few years, not just this year. Um in these decisions um I appreciate the comment that they are people oriented. Um we are trying to make reductions in a way that we are sustaining the positive momentum we have in the district. Uh the board appropriately asked for um alternative uh options to consider. Um and so just as a background and purpose, I'm going to dive into the presentation here. Um following the the

013April 13th presentation, um the team and I started to look at different options um primarily in the space of the division of academic performance. Um I know at least Mr. Wier has brought up the issue and I hope that we can get into that discussion this evening around um our proposal for people in family supports. But generally speaking, as I tried to gauge the the sense of the board, um we we we feel that that proposal that we brought forward was solid. Um and so uh we are bringing these uh options to you for consideration. Let me start by looking at the division of uh people and family supports specifically and we wanted to point out that there's a total of 52.5 FTEES from a district perspective allocated in this space. Um and uh we're

014really we're proud of the fact that we have such um a robust uh allocation of personnel and people and family supports. I think it grounds um a component of us addressing the whole child first and foremost and addressing the classroom as as as much as possible. Miss Clim was unable to join us at the front of this meeting. She may be able to join us a little bit later virtually. Um but the the plan that we've brought forward we believe is more um strategic and systemic and not as reactionary as we pointed out. And I want to highlight again um we pointed it out last week Monday even with the SEAL specialist those five FTEEs are spread across multiple schools. So they're not in every school every day. We have some really talented people in

015those positions and some of the the angst that I have that you heard this evening through public comment is associated with people making really strong relationships in those roles. Um I don't want to dismiss it. I don't want to u gloss over it. Uh I think the reason why we have made progress in all of our schools since the return from CO is because of the specialists. Um but the esser dollars were meant to be temporary. They were not supposed to be sustained over a long period of time and we believe that this is the time to make the transition. I want to also point out to you um the just the or chart. Um you will see that there are white squares in the or chart. Those are studentf facing positions. So our psychologists,

016our social workers, our counselors at the secondary level, the behavioral specialists that we're recommending, these are all positions that would be studentf facing working with staff, families, and again with students. Much of the community feedback that I have received, the board has received um and you provided to us at the last board meeting was around the division of academic performance specifically. Um the initial proposal uh was to have 15 curriculum and instruction specialists and 11 intervention teachers. And the the the general theme was that that that balance was not good. Um there was a concern around meeting the needs of our our academically needy students. Um and so uh your council was to go back and give more uh options um for you to consider this evening um and ultimately um to vote on on

017Monday. I'm going to talk about Monday a little bit later um at the end of this pre presentation. not to gloss over this too quickly, but you'll see the breakdown of what we initially proposed. Um, and I I just want to I want to just center some of our our time around the reduction around the academic and career planning coordinator. I know that there's been some concern around it. Uh, in speaking with both Dr. Daryl Hansen, our director of student success, Miss Jenny Fox, who you have met as our our strategy and academic support um director. They believe that the work that we need to do at the secondary level and preparing students for um secondary post-secondary success really must come through um their positions, not a coordinator. Um and and so that was the

018grounding of the reason that we believe that we can distribute the work that the ACP coordinator was doing among those two directors. In short, the administrators that we have in at the Fiser building are going to have to pick up more and and we don't have the luxury of having coordinator positions. And so uh Miss Fch and Dr. Hansen acknowledged that they're going to have to do more, pick up more, um, and that we don't have the ability to have a coordinator in that type of position. Um, we we believe that the reduction of one our of our curriculum coordinators is important, but curriculum coordinators are the research and development of a school district. If we don't have curriculum coordinators who are attending to the best practice and the cutting edge of what's happening in

019curriculum, we're putting ourselves in the position that we were in when I arrived where we didn't have curriculum coordinators. Um and and we have some of the best curriculum coordinators in the state of Wisconsin. I don't want to sacrifice that. Miss Delases has uh stepped into the role of a curriculum coordinator just this year focusing on our electives. I hear often that our community says we believe in the arts. We believe in in making sure that the the performing arts and the visual arts and the the type of courses that students really enjoy need to be uh preserved and sustained. Miss Tassis is working with those teachers in physical education, in performing arts, in visual arts. She's working with our our career technical education uh teachers to ensure that their curriculum is cutting edge because

020what typically happens in a school district is that we place that responsibility of developing their curriculum on those teachers. and they have that to be a teacher in those elective areas, you have to you have to manage your program and um address the the needs of your students and and and we just don't think that adding the the added burden of developing curriculum in those areas is something that would be helpful. they Miss Delas's role has been greatly um appreciated and endorsed by our elected teachers and they they're saying that we're finally being seen as as teachers uh in the district. Um and then the the intervention teachers that were identified as as um a reduction. I appreciate the board saying please give us other alternatives that we don't want to sacrifice those intervention teachers.

021I think it's important for us to try to sustain the intervention teachers. But I would also share with you that a long-term goal that I have for our district is that we have to find other ways of supporting students who are in academic need. That the the ability to have intervention teachers address those needs alone solely isn't a sustainable thing. That at some point we need to continue to build the capacity of everyone. um our our principles, our our our teachers, everyone needs to have a role in it um to ensure that those students are are receiving what they need. But the message was clearly delivered that that initial model that you see on the the opposite side of 15 CNI specialists and 11 intervention teachers was something that we we just can't continue to

022do. I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to also talk about the fact that we have I believe a very strong instructional technology coordinator doing good work for us. Um that often uh we don't talk about our library coordinator but we have a very strong library coordinator. She works hard. Uh the the only time I see her is when she's either coming in the building or leaving the building or pushing material. She is uh everywhere making sure that our libraries are are are tended to. And I I think we should be proud of what we have with our library services. And then the student growth coordinator is someone who is addressing the needs of extending uh academic opportunities for our kids. That's Miss Amy Duk. She does an amazing job of working

023with families and teachers and to ensure that students who need an extended opportunity for um academic growth receive it. and there she's also working closely with our intervention teachers to ensure that students are getting their tier two and tier three services. Um so those are people who are unsung heroes. You don't normally hear about them. When people say Fiser, they're they're not only speaking of administrators, they're also speaking of these folks who are on a teacher contract but are really the engine around our academic program. >> Yes. On the chief the executive summary that you received. There's a one FT academic operations. >> So the titles I think shift over. >> No, no, you're fine. >> There's been a there's a lot happening. There's a lot happening and I think also I think the division

024of academic performance felt that this was the opportune time to try to introduce title changes. If you remember last week, Monday, um the board appropri appropriately pulled off of consent um changing job descriptions because you wanted to really get a sense of how this all played together and part of those job description changes were title changes. So, thank you for raising that issue. So, again, I think I I understand the angst in the community when you look at the division of academic performance. Again, that's more of the R&D, the research and development of our our our program. There's that one white box of the intervention teachers. And I think the message that I' I've heard, I think the board has heard through the emails that have been received is that we need to preserve as

025many studentf facing positions as possible. And so when you look at the division of academic performance on its surface, you will say, well, there's only one box that is a white box. and and so we need to be cautious u of how many of those FTEEs we keep and I I'm sensitive to it and and hopefully that these uh alternative models will address it but I also want to just share with you we have to keep a balance because these positions are also really important um and if those those positions that are doing the research and the development and helping teachers understand where we want to move curricularly. If they eventually go away, then we do lose grow. So you you always I think there's a balance that we want to strike. So alternative A,

026alternative A um is um there's a recommendation of having 12 CNI specialist. Keep in mind that we started with 15. So you will see with all all of these models there's a reduction of CNI specialists or um as we say uh the positions formerly known as curriculum coaches, instructional coaches. Um the proposal is 12 CNI specialists and 14 intervention teachers. It's it's important to note that we started the school year with 15 intervention teachers. We're currently right now as of today April 21st at 14. uh one of our intervention teachers um left the classroom just last year um at Madison and when we had a vacancy um instead of us trying to fill it with a sub or or piecing it together with a long-term sub, we asked that teacher to go back to the

027classroom. Um and so we went from 15 to 14. That's why right now today we have 14 intervention teachers. You'll note in all these intervention or excuse me all these alternative models uh the last four categories the last four roles will remain the same. Uh the recommendation is that we keep our four curriculum coordinators that we keep our instructional technology coordinator our elementary library coordinator and the academic operations coordinator. So that's that's uh model A. Model A preserves our the current level intervention teachers. Um, it sustains our coordination in K12, ELA, math, social studies, and science and electives. And it provides, I'm excited about the fact, and I think the board wants to talk about this, a more targeted approach to intervention for young people at the high school level, um, is specifically with English

0289 and English 10. So model B, model B is um a proposal of 10 CNI specialists and 15 uh intervention teachers. The unique component to this model is to try to address some of the needs that I heard from the board table regarding people and family supports. What I heard was that people questioned if one district-wide behavioral uh specialist would be enough. And so this identifies a second behavioral specialist. So we firmly believe um that with two behavioral specialists and a director of pupil services that we will be able to meet the needs of our schools um in a more proactive way. uh could you define the role of a behavioral specialist for me again? >> Yes. So the behavioral specialist is someone who would work directly with teachers, with the student, and with families.

029And I think all three of those stakeholders are important um to identify strategies that all of those stakeholders can utilize when a student is in need. Um and so it's not reactionary, but it's truly identifying first of all observing the situation. identifying strategies and then coaching up not only the teachers who are in that situation, the principal who's in that situation, but the the student themselves. Um, so you're going to form some relationships with that the student or students and the families. >> Yes. Again, the key considerations are the same items that uh that was identified in model A, but with the fact that we would have a second district-wide behavioral specialist. Model C, it's actually a flip of what we initially proposed. We would have uh 11 curricular curriculum and instructional specialists and 14

030intervention teachers. And again keeping um along with the the the theory of having a second behavioral assessments that's model C and then model D um comes with the caveat that we understand that there are pressing needs and um when you have scarce resources you can only do so much. We know that uh we're currently u in negotiations with the Waltos Education Association. Uh we want to make sure that we are able to we want to try to meet them um where they are as as much as possible, but we're at a point now from a budget standpoint, the only way we can meet them is if we make more reductions. And so, um, I'm proposing in D that we have the 10 CNI specialists, 14 intervention teachers, but we're we're making deeper cuts in order

031to have the equivalent of an FTE that goes back into the budget so we can try to uh work with our our our colleagues and friends at the WA to see if we can we can um get to a place where we can can have a mutual agreement. Um and so but the only way we can do that work is through making more staff reductions and and so the proposal here would be to make a deeper cut and that equivalent of another FTE would go back into the budget. So that's model D. >> Would model D model D also still have classroom assistance? We would also have to identify two uh educational assistants and reduce two educational assistants across the district. Um because that's the reductions we would have to make. We would have to

032make one teacher FTE and two EAS or educational assistance. >> How many educational assistants have >> Please hold Missoski will pull that up. >> Regular education, special ed, or both? >> Let's do both. >> Sure. Yeah, we'll keep talking then. >> Thank you for that. >> And and for board members, uh I we we tried to be as responsive as we could. We thank you for your questions that came in this afternoon. We we have answered them. Um and that is uh at your place um place uh seats. So, I think um I thank you all because I I I sent over the alternatives to you on Friday and it was a dense heavy content uh heavy text document. Uh I think it would have been nice for you to have this visual that you

033now have on on the screen that shows the comparison. Um and and so my recommendation um to you uh is model D. Um I I I think we it gives you more flexibility. Um it it is clearly a departure from what we are doing from a CNI specialist perspective. It is clearly a departure. Um and um in a couple slides here I'll talk to you about what that means for us overall as a school system. Um since this is so tech heavy I won't try to read it to you but this just captures the differences and the key distinctions across um the models for the division of academic performance. So, what will look different with the coaching model um with whatever alternative you select? I think we're going to have to get very skinny and

034targeted with what we do from a curricular standpoint. And the primary focus those of you I think most of you were at um what we were we were at a school at Madison um specifically a few weeks ago where we heard that teachers are looking for support in developing student centered classrooms. They want support in developing routines, structures, systems so they can meet the needs of students within their classroom. And so we we call that work student centered classroom work. Um and and that would be our primary focus u in terms of providing support. Um the first six weeks of the school year would be dedicated to ensuring whoever is in the CNI specialist position. This is the work they're doing. We're not going to dive into curricular work. We're going to dive into this

035um to make sure that um as Maslo's hierarchy of needs go that people are feeling safe and secure um and comfortable in their classrooms. We have made a significant investment in the math curriculum and so uh our our curricular focus is adopting the math um curriculum with strong fidelity from a K8 perspective and then with math integrated one. I talked a little bit earlier about my excitement um in regards to having one instructional coach at the high school level pushing into English nine and English 10. I believe that courses like English 9 and English 10 and the course formerly known as algebra 1 are gatekeeper courses where that's where we see the achievement gap and inequities grow in school systems by by addressing algebra by having integrated math one and having uh a curricular specialist

036pushing into English 9 and English 10. We believe that we're doing more targeted work and intervening with students who have the greatest needs in both math and ELA at the high school level, which is different than what we've done before. And then the second curricular um focus is adoption with English 11. we have to start thinking about how we're going to um in and get ready for English 11 along with our middle school social studies uh team feels that they're ready um to implement um they're ready to implement their new curriculum and we want to be able to support that work. I apologize for taking so much time to talk about this and and and unpacking it. Thank you for giving me the time. But this is your meeting. this is your time to ask

037uh good questions and and you asked a lot of good questions already through email. Uh and so thank you for allowing us to kind of unpack it. Maybe if you raise those questions. >> Yeah, I would suggest if you had questions that you've raised in the last couple of days that you go ahead and um maybe briefly ask them so that the community members um who don't have the sheets in front of them can hear those as well. Um, we'll just start with whoever has one ready to go and um, dive into it. >> Mr. Wasowi, do you have the EA help? >> I am still working on it. >> Okay, just let us know when you >> I will I will make you aware. Okay. Okay. >> Uh we received um a handful of

038emails from either teachers or coaches at the high school level. Um and then one of our high school principles um that made the the compelling argument for coaching at the high school level. Um so I it's not clear exactly in these new alternatives um at which level. Okay. of that. Um, >> so >> I guess so what how many coaches does each high school have now? And then under each of these um al alternatives, how many coaches will be at each high school? >> They have two now. >> Two each. >> No, they have two total. So, we have two high school coaches for the two high schools, but they have the ability to work with multiple curricular teams. We'll have two coaches again next year, but very targeted. And so, one of the coaches

039will be embedded with English 9 and English 10. The other coach will have and that's why we identified we can only do so much. And so, it will be very skinny. We want to make sure that math integrated one is implemented with fidelity and so that will be the focus of that other coach. Can you um say something about is there a role then for the um the curriculum coordinators in working with some of the high school departments in their area and you know department chairs or um yeah talk a little bit more about if we're you talked about how important it is to keep the curriculum coordinators what is it that they're doing um at for high school level that will help with that transition. >> Dr. Marble, I'm going to defer to you

040in terms of if you can just and and we have some of our >> and I'm asking that just >> yeah I and quite frankly I would invite anybody else to to jump in. >> We have two of them in the room so if they want to take the microphone. >> Um so moving into next school year the um the role of the curriculum coordinators will stretch K12. Um so right now our um Miss Jones, our uh elementary humanities coordinator will be um focused on English language arts K12. Um so looking at the whole entire system u Miss Liza Weber shifted into a K12 math role for this year. Um and Dr. Blash has always been K12 science and so next year she will also be picking up K12 uh social studies. and they they

041do work closely with teachers. Um and so depending upon how what staffing we have, we'll need to be really strategic about how we utilize their time um and what projects they are working on so that we can be as supportive um with teachers as possible. Um but with moving them to K12 and not having them be hyperfocused on primary or secondary um it will just need to look different. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Something along those lines or if not that we can move to a different Yeah. Go ahead. again. And this is in response to that like there's just some strong communication coming from the high school. When we're looking at the academic intervention teachers, where are they currently? And under the initial proposal on the 13th, what would that have looked like? Where

042were the where would we have had the intervention teachers? >> I'll let Dr. Marvel start. >> Our intervention teachers currently are serve or serve students K8 and that would be the that would remain um for next year as well. The one pivot is the way in which we would be serving students that need additional support. And I say additional support both in remediation and um challenge at the high school level in English 9 and English 10 by trying out a new model um where we would be positioning somebody to be working more alongside teachers and students um in a more concentrated manner as Dr. Me has described. Um right now we have a pull out model at the high school level for um English language arts support and in one of the many documents that

043you have all received um there's data to suggest that it is not functioning well and we are not casting a wide enough net and catching the students that we need to catch. >> So Miss Bzinski just to be blunt we are we we've heard the the push back from the high school of saying we need coaching that slide that I shared, this slide right here, we're saying we'll provide the coaching, but it's going to be very targeted. And so, one of the coaches will be pushing into English 9 and English 10 classrooms supporting students. We know that uh at one of our high schools, for example, that when we look at our assessment data, about 14%, it's not it's close to 20, but it's not quite 20%. about 14% of those students have identified needs

044in reading and math. And so we believe that a pullout model is never going to work for a high school student that we need to push in. So that's one of the FTEEs. The other FTE is going to go towards ensuring that math integrated one is implemented with full fidelity. We believe if we're targeted around what we're doing with English 9 and English 10, that we're targeted around making sure that math integrated one is implemented well and we're implementing English 11 well, that those are the ways that you can support young people who may be behind and need support. >> We also um know that's also where we have students that need extension and my understanding is that's also going to be part of the work that they'll be doing. I al also want to

045confirm that the the pull out model is not a good model for high school because the students um they don't want it. They they feel the stigma um they don't want to go down the hall. Um so and they're old enough that that they are asked as they should be um offered the opportunity, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily always choose to get the supports they need. So, um, it I' I've seen over and over again, you know, as a parent that that servicing in the classroom, making it more normalized. Um, picking up students who, uh, may not even have been captured or noted yet that could use those supports, but doing more universal design where, um, you broad you broadcast those supports is a much stronger model um, when you're working with teenagers.

046Great. >> Absolutely. I I appreciate that thinking tremendously in the I'm still not sure in that um April 13th model that original proposal where where were those four intervention um reductions coming from like say it again but I'm still not picking up where those reductions were coming from. So we have 15 intervention teachers now. We were suggesting that four would be reduced >> and it would be reduced at the K8 level >> but specific schools. >> Yeah. What? So that that is a K eight K8 or >> it would have been a K8 impact. >> How many at the K5 level? How many at the 68 level? It's difficult for us to try to identify who would be impacted because we always make these determinations based on who qualifies and who's identified. Uh the best

047thing we can start by sharing with you is that we know that the the support area that would have been impacted is the KA schools. Dr. Marble. Yeah, I was just going to reiterate that um regardless of staffing model, we always use data to uh position staff at the building levels. So for example, and we do it b again based on data equitably. Um so for example, Underwood has two interventionists where McKinley has half of an interventionist for example. Um and that would continue. We also uh just for note we do pay for some of our interventionists out of title one funds and so we have to follow title one law um as well with that. So that would mean that our title one schools would be prioritized with having more staffing than other buildings.

048So we would we would essentially continue using the same uh staffing or um placement model that we have been using. Is that public knowledge what the the title school which schools are our title? >> Yeah, they change every they they can change every year, right? Um but Madison, um Underwood, Eisenhower, and then sometimes Roosevelt, sometimes Washington, sometimes Jefferson. It it all depends. some specificity about the role of the math coach at the high school level because I think just the detail and specificity is really important in this conversation. So in addition to the success of integrated math one and the role that the instructional coach plays in that success, um we're also intending to pilot integrated math 2 next year as we phase in those new courses. We're also introducing a data science course. We

049have kids registered for that really important course. it's new that also takes curriculum instruction support. And then this year there also has been some really um great creative innovation around how to serve students well in algebra one around a co-taught algebra model. So while the coach wasn't um a teacher in that co-taught model, two teachers were teaching in the co-opt model. She certainly played a role in the innovation of it, the design, the supporting of the collaboration, the conditions and the data analysis of the success of that. And that's a model that we intend to grow. So I just wanted to um specify the um expanded work in math that um well integrated math one success is our main priority. Um that's just a fraction of um the work ahead for the secondary math program.

050>> A fraction. You got it. You got it. >> And this is where we can't do everything, you know. So you I know the board received an email from the science team with this model. That type of support won't be available anymore and and boy that science team has come a long way. Um and and it was due to the coaching model. And so those are the types of tradeoffs that we'll have to consider. Um I I I guess I want to recognize too and I think last on Monday Minsky mentioned this is a state funed problem. So um it's it's painful to have these conversations because like we all want what's best and we're getting inundated with questions and um suggestions from all stakeholders. So, we're really trying to balance all of that. Um,

051and it's kind of like we're we're deciding if we're are we going to feed the kids or are we going to give the kids their medicine? You know, like you can't choose between two um absolutely vital things. So, um the way I'm looking at this is we're we're trying to make a decision that does the least damage in our progress because we are making progress. So, we want to continue as much as we can. Um, and I think over the last week, I've kind of had a bit of a change of heart. Um, I've always known that our coaches have been really valuable, but I am seeing more of the impact that they're having on large groups of students and teachers. And I'm some of these models make me nervous because we're really cutting back

052on on them in some of them. Um, and it brings you back. I really want to see a balance. I know that there have to be reduction, but um if there's a way we can still get as much coaching and as much support to our struggling students rather than I mean going from 15 to 10 is a huge jump. And I think if we're going to be successful with the math, >> that needs to be a priority. I I would hate to take that away from our the science team. I mean, I think the impacts that those teachers have seen in their classrooms and in their teaching is is really important. Um uh I don't know if I should go into something else or if we want to if anybody else has something. >> Yeah.

053Um Miss Alaski has her hand up now. So, >> yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to go ahead and provide some figures related to um uh to education assistance and I apologize. Typically, these would would automatically calculate >> because I've paused where we're at in the staffing plans based on our review. It just I'm it's not as automated. Um so, uh for the current school year, we have 22 regular education assistants and 67 special education assistants. That's districtwide um for both roles. U based on the proposed staffing plans not including the reduction of two educational assistance or additional educational assistance in model D. Um what is what was proposed when we met on the 13th um was 20 regular ed assistance and status quo 67 special education assistance. The reason for the reduction in special education

054assistance is that some principles um chose the option of splitting some sections and traded out educational assistance. So that's that's what's on the books right now. >> And just to summarize, working with the principles, all the educational assistants are are not extra, they're placed. So we would be reducing two that already was expected to be in the staffing plan if we went with model D. >> Yeah. I mean >> unless there's more enrollment, right? And then that's the >> hard that's the allocation. I mean unless we would use our contingency. I mean that's the allocation. Um I would say that um we have we have I have endeavored to go ahead and um allocate educational assistance regular education um based on free or reduced lunch um like equity based formula not an equal formula um

055and so if we're reducing you know if we're going from 20 to 18 then somewhere I'm I'm reducing the allocation and again >> and you can't keep splitting them into more and more schools that It's there are some choices there. >> There are choices to be made. >> Thank you for that summary. Um uh maybe we should just stick with the coach's discussion for a few minutes since you've put that out there. Um other board members have thoughts um about or follow-up questions to Mrs. Ms. Bach's statement. Yeah. Go ahead and turn them off. >> Would adding one or how many coaches would be needed to continue supporting uh other departments other than math and ELA. >> My analysis would be that we would need three. Right now we have two high school coaches who

056are more free to address a multitude of things. If we are identifying targeted work in English nine and English 10 and if we're identifying targeted work in math that then really narrows down what they're able to do. Well, I shouldn't say it narrows down. It it >> It is their work. And and so that flexibility that the two coaches currently have is gone. And so I would say if you want to create that level of the level of service that we currently see at the high school, you would have to have at least three at the high school. >> But one more. >> So three total. >> Three total. >> Yes. >> Three. >> Yeah, please. >> I think I'll just add to that because I think if we add three then we have to

057look across the whole system of what impact does that have in middle school? What impact that in elementary? Um, you know, I think about part of our our challenge, right, is how many schools we have. Um, because if we think about 13 schools, which we really have support, Monasuri gets some consulting more more so from our freaking coordinators and instructional coaches at the time. That's 13 schools. Um and so when we had the 15, we were able to do some of more that that specialty work where um work within the middle school support of win and tier 2 services and things like that. And then we were able to prioritize some of our schools that um had been identified by the state. So Underwood had been it's no longer identified. Um so we had priority

058coaching there where we had a full-time math coach and a full-time daily coach. So just giving kind of a full scope that if we position three that's maybe supports the high school environment and the targeted work there but then that has us thinking about um what does that mean for elementary math because that's would require for sure a level support if that's a priority area um and then what does that mean for middle school math too. So just trying to give a full scope of that as well questions. Yeah, just wanted >> I don't know if you had a chance to see it, but um and it's I don't know if this part but what I was looking at was this this team looks very binary. set of options. It's the two positions which can

059flip flopping and I I was proposing something else. Uh splitting the difference if you will and also I had not to jump the topic too soon. Um I had said in in our previous meeting that I was not okay with u reducing all four seals and I I'm looking for a way to maintain some of that. I understand we are we there's no way to keep all four but um I had uh sent in a relatively similar plan um asking it I understand it couldn't be distributed for tonight's meeting but just if you feel it appropriate to um share with the other board members if you and Dr. feel >> I was at work so I haven't had time to look at me right now >> and and I think Mr. White under the questions

060that we've answered and we have time now um it it is question number seven because I believe you propose I think we're making a little bit of a a shift Dr. We're moving away from instructional coaches. So, >> can we just see if anybody else um has anything else to do? Um I mean, I do have one. Uh we don't want to get too far a field and mix up roles too much, but one of the things I'm hearing in this conversation is not every shoe fits every school the same. >> Yes. Um, so I know that we're kind of talking in um, Excel charts and you know, we can't we don't we want to keep some equity across the district, but equity is not always the same as equality. Um, I know we're kind

061of doing big picture right now and I think part of this is we've got to have some trust that out of the big picture decision then there's going to be some adjustments. But, you know, if there were um you know, and not like both high schools might not be in the same situation in science where they might have someone who's a a a really experienced teacher who can step up and do some of that data analysis um and run some of these. I'm just making this up off top of my head, so don't anybody quote me about the specific pieces, but you know, the same thing is like are are there any um um elementary situations where an academic interventionist teacher slashcoach position could be seen where that person would maybe split their time. I'm

062just trying to think that like you know I know we right now we have categories but not every school is necessarily in the same situation. So like we have with other positions, maybe distributed them based more up on school need and equity. Is that an option um for some of these positions um just in the academic area? I'm not going to ask that we now also mix this with SEAL at the same time. So just throwing that out there. Doesn't need to be answered now, but um we're I feel like we're drilling down in some really good work. Um and it might be that um we kind of craft this general picture um think about how many in each category but encourage um good brainstorming u with those who implement it to um also look

063at school specific >> we have thought about this Dr. world and and the response is that whatever the the ultimate number we land on, what will happen next is that Dr. Marble and her team along with teacher leaders because we want to make sure teacher voice is at the table and principles will all come together and they will decide how to distribute the remaining FT. So that that statement of trust that you you indicated, it will be based on what the needs are of the schools once we know what the FTEL patient is. So, but that's really hard for us to respond to right now because we don't know. >> No, I'm more I'm more generally putting an idea out there that, you know, our lung fell and our Whitman may >> get a similar

064sort of FTE but may not have the same set of needs. >> 100%. And I think that will all emerge. I've been more So, I think we're seeing the same thing. I I've been more focused on what is the process of ensuring that people have voice in this determining what the distribution looks like. Once this August group of governance leaders decide what the number is. So once you make the decision around that the number is then we'll get to work on deciding how to distribute. Uh but we can't we can't start that process until you you you do your due diligence with your human right. I hope that's >> I don't Yeah, it's helpful. I don't hear anything else on the coach's um question. So, uh go ahead. Let's move to the next question in

065line the um >> so we started to try to address but I want to give it before Mr. Dardier but we his question is question seven in the document that's in front of you and and >> read that because not everyone online had that. So the question >> the question is >> is there a way to have a bridge year with specialists? >> Yes. And so Jason we'll give you the floor to kind of explain your logic a little bit more. >> Sure. Um so I did some analysis u both from a numerical and a humanistic standpoint. Uh and I I agree um uh with Miss Bach. I I think I've kind of reversed my position on um the uh CNI and the academic inter intervention teachers. They're both really important and I don't like

066I don't want to have to front or heavy load either one of them, I think. and and also I'm not okay with with going from four to zero on the on the because uh and even though you have a you're proposing a really robust system in replacement of that I don't I don't have confidence in the systems that that I've just seen in general not not not talking about the organization here uh in in order to implement this much change in this short of time. So what I'm proposing is a a runway of saying next year let's retain two um two uh seals and they will be kind of the uh the runway they're the the soft landing if you will while the and also I would say in yes include the behavioral specialist so

067while the behavioral specialist is working with um families and students and psychologists and social workers are setting up their network, their framework, how they're going to operate, which is a large group and again spread across huge footprint. Uh that's a that's a big web to navigate and I and I I find it is it's going to be challenging whether or not they can do it. I won't speak towards that. it's going to be very challenging to do and having two seal specialists that are deployable in the field um for uh for any any sort of need that comes up that are completely familiar with how the process has been the last few years. I think would be it would it would be not smart choice to to let that expertise go. could be used as

068knowledge transfer. So um that was my propos like my kind of my counter proposal was CNI 12 um academic intervention intervent sorry AIT's 12 keeping them both the same uh and and then making sure that behavioral specialist is there because I think that's important being able to retain pain two seals for for at least one year and then take a look at the data take a look at the data at at in December uh after we've seen have we as the team in place have we seen what what's happening with behavior and if we are seeing it under control or good enough then we can next year plan for saying okay now let's now let's really make this robust Let's add a second behavioral specialist and that gives us two FTEEs uh one one FTE

069back as a contingency by not having for the second year if if the board so chooses and that gives an extra contingency that could be deployed anywhere because we know that we're going to have to make $2.5 million cut three years in a row. So and that that's my understanding at least and this sets us up for at least a little bit of leeway for that next year as well and we can decide next year after we've seen actual data and behavioral what if these systems are working and and has this team gelled and and ramped up and put put together a system. Um, and I think we can do it without without sacrificing any of the needs of of um of our budget and and sticking to the total FTEEs that reductions that we're

070looking for. So, um I I put it in more detail um in an email to Dr. Worley if you so choose. I I can share with you the full board. >> I did want to mention Miss Cle is here now. So, um, >> the only problem I have with Miss Clim joining us is that she is currently in her doctoral program and has skipped out of a stats program or stats. So, >> yeah. Yeah. No, I just I mean, I'm a little worried she's here for the moment and this is specific question in the in that area before we um I don't know. I don't want to force her to speak if she >> I was trying to add some levity to the conversation here. I don't want anyone to skip their graduate class, >>

071but I'm having a little >> um with because I'm more of a visual person >> not having a chart, but just to summarize Jason to trying to follow along with you said you were not suggesting reducing the proposed psychologists at 11. No, can you go back? That was easier. No, no, it's the 14 social workers, the 14 counselors, but rather not having two behavioral specialists, but only >> one and keeping to um >> it would be more of a a two a phased approach. Um, >> right. I mean the trade-off would be to not invest in that second behavior specialist. not invest in well so invest in one behavioral specialist for the first year >> and and if all of the other investments with with >> where we're doing with the u psych uh social

072social workers and psychologists if all of that is producing data that is positive um then we can swap >> that I was just trying to make sure number-wise we weren't shifting another FT PE off of the academic because we've been hearing the role of the coaches much less that those are important >> and what I was suggesting was is saying 24 FTEES stay between those talk to the CNI and the ALI or AITS. Um >> I got that part. Yeah. >> So and then again ne next year is a new year. let's say it's a new staffing plan. It gives it gives some room to transition. Um I'm not an expert in in mental health. I'm not an expert in um social emotional learning, but I I do think I am a little bit of

073an expert from my personal experience with um social emotional transitions and how too big of one often can set you back way further than than taking a little bit of a hit. Would you um take those four positions to two and still spread those two over the same number of schools that the four are covering? >> I'm not sure about the logistics of it >> because I think that's really in important. That's a lot of >> I I would have to defer to the team >> and the district did answer and people online don't have any in the room um might not have access to that. So maybe we could briefly go over what the response was and then if Miss Plen wants to add anything or you want to add anything else or any

074of those staff want to add >> uh Dr. Worley I'd be happy to add to that. >> One thing if you put that chart back up that maybe isn't represented on that is this year we have 7.2 school sites. So we are actually looking to maintain that SEAL support in the schools but through the psych role and many of our mental health specialists and like one of the criteria was that it was a school psych background for that because they do have the skills and the training and the expertise to support the students through their support. So we aren't actually decreasing in many of our buildings um the support that they currently have. What we are doing is making it a little more consistent. Um the challenge that many of our buildings have experienced this

075school year is they have like a point a point 4 or a.5 psych and then a.5 mental health specialist. So it's like two people kind of ving back and forth kind of those supports that they're doing. So this is similar to what um u Mr. Wadier was sharing. We are really only going down 3.8 eight um when it comes to the people supporting in the buildings um not the the five SDL specialists many of these um we're we're working to maintain in the buildings so if you think of 7.2 up to 11 that is how we are kind of addressing making sure we have someone present to do a lot of those um responsive behaviors but in a more um proactive and consistent way with the building teachers or building principles. So that was the

076design intent. >> This claim is also fair to say that we currently have 12 social workers. >> Uh, yep. We currently have 12. So we are going up in social work because a barrier that our system has really experienced is not having social workers at our middle school. And that is a skill set that is super important. Connecting families to resources, supporting children, and then also making that homeschool connection because we know when school and home are working together, kids do best. And not that our counselors don't do that, not that our um mental health specialists weren't, but they they weren't all um functioning from that um theory of action of a social worker about connecting to those resources. So you're right, we are going up in social worker and up in psych. Um so

077it's not really just a total loss within the social emotional supports. It's just a shift for consistency. And the real really the intent of that shift is what we've been doing has not been working. I would have wanted to see more improvements. Yes, we've improved, but we're not we have not yet arrived. So, um I I I'm hopeful that uh this this design will really help us have that consistency we've been looking for. >> Jason, just I was saying, can you just briefly um uh speak to the concern that both Mr. and you weren't not on the meeting yet, but a community um member shared about the relationships that seals have built and how um that will look in terms of maintaining um that those relationships in this kind of transition that seems to be

078at the heart of some of the concern. >> Yeah. So, we are keeping many of ours if you think about the social workers, we are keeping some of the mental health specialists for that. one of the psyches that was a mental health um mental health specialist is maintaining or we are offering a school psych position for that. So even though we are going up to 11, I believe we are we are not we do have to hire um social workers but not in the buildings that there were. It's just um there were life like life circumstances that someone is leaving um um not really related anything to um the these choices. And then the school we really even though we're going up to 11, we aren't hiring 3.8. We we had we had someone for

079example we had someone who was 6 who wants to go full-time. So we are building and maintaining those relationships with those people that we are had internally already had available to us. So that's what a lot of the fill is. I think we only have two positions that we are actually really looking to hire. So we do have a lot of consistency with our current um model that we have presented. >> That's helpful. And is there um some I I would guess some thought being given to how as they transition from SEAL to their newly defined role um as Mr. Watt brought up and and the community and some ability to have a a road a pathway that's not just like sudden change um what students expect. >> Yep. Absolutely. We like we want consistency

080as much as possible in our buildings where they know the families, they know the students, they know how to support in those places. So um one of the positions actually of the school psych is um one of our school psyches is um going to um back to their old school. They're missing some of their relationships. So that one will always will have to have someone new. But everybody else, we're really thinking about our placements of our staff, building consistency, and many of our people, our psyches, our sites were spread thin, and we're trying to look at how can we make sure they're in buildings where they already had those experiences and relationships that they can now lean into that other portion of their role working directly with students that they have missed. With only having

0817.2 school psych, we were limiting their role to not their full scope of training. And now we are giving them that opportunity to serve in the full scope of what they can do. And our psyches are really excited about having that opportunity because as I mentioned last time as part of exit interviews, one of the barriers some of or reasons that some of our staff have lasted is they haven't been able to um fulfill that full role of school psych that they all crave and that is that student facing time and this would give them that opportunity. >> Thank you for all that clarification. I remember when you gave your presentation the last time, you talked about um trying to create some more efficiencies and more student contact. So, thanks for reminding us about that.

082Um, Miss Brazinski, did you have >> No, I'm just Well, I think it's it's that part about having seeing a change from somebody being a parttime position in a building to being a full-time position in the building where now you're there all day every day. you have more time, more opportunity to make that student contact to really build those relationships that were that are being built with maybe some other people currently. Like that's what the uh school site wants to do. They want to be there to serve the well-being of students. And if you're only there part-time, you're focused so much on some of the the clerical work and the business work of the psych. You don't get to do the human contact, the student facing part of that role. >> So, can I >>

083Yes. Yes. >> Quickly address that. Um, just so that we're all clear. I was not >> Yeah. >> I I actually agree with the the numbers up there. 11 psychologists, 14 social workers, 14 counselors. I was not talking about reducing those. >> Yeah. I was talking about maintaining two two of the fours because what we have there are four people with existing relationship capital and emotional capital and human capital for for these families and they can serve as a liaison for for a year to help the increase of of of these other staff members. members and let them build the most efficient long-term process as possible. So, that that's what I'm what I'm arguing for or making a case for is um I I I understand everything that's that's been outlined here from a brass

084tax standpoint. It all makes financial sense. Um I don't have problems with it. We have to make those cuts. I just think they could of a different distribution serves better and this probably just comes down to a difference of opinion. So, and that's okay. >> It doesn't sound from what Miss Clem said that it's people are different which is something that sounds like it's part of their rationale. >> Um, >> so what is happening the fourcl are they >> so she just talked about >> are they all four of them being incorporated back into the program? Five. Sorry. Five. Uh, are they all being reinccorporated back into these roles or are we are we losing expertise? >> You want to speak to it? You want to speak to it, Sarah? >> No, go ahead. >>

085Um, so many of them we we looked for landing places is what I um was speaking to. So, we had a mental health special. So, if you're just speaking about the five seal specialists, is that what you're referring to? Um we we looked at what licensing people all had and we tried to find landing places for all of them in our schools. So for example um a mental health specialist who was in a school um we also had um an opportunity for um a special education teacher in that building and she chose to maintain that um position um and is working and excited about that opportunity. So um we are looking to maintain the expertise of those people throughout our system. Um and I do believe um there are two of all nine positions. Um

086it's it's two of the positions that um we are yet looking to find a placement for. So we are maintaining and have the expertise of um of those staff member. We're just um finding different positions. If you want to add more to that Sarah. Uh, thank you Stacy. That was that was great. May I may I ask a question going back to um Mr. Wier's comments? Um, so as the person who has to like find the people and do the math um could you clarify for me it my initial notes indicated that if we were to maintain two social emotional specialists and create uh the new one FTE of the new behavior specialist position. I was thinking that that was that the the two social emotional specialists were coming out of the allocation of school

087psychologists. Okay. >> No, I was proposing they come out of out of uh the DAP. >> Oh, okay. So coming from the allocation of >> bringing intervention teachers and >> 12 and 12 which is a reduction of two. So those two could be repurposed into so that >> moving them from academic to Yes. >> Yeah. Thank Thank you. I I I'm really glad I clarified. I missed it. Sorry. No, thank you. That's great. >> It's all all the charts are in the email and I can't share them. >> I may just add just two components. I think what Miss We shouldn't overlook the fact that what Miss Clim highlighted is that as we talk about the five FTE and specialists, they have been we haven't lost those people. They're just now in the form of

088psychologists and social workers, which makes the job more fulfilling for a school site because they're not partial sites, but they're they're more robust. They can be more boots on the ground in a school. That's number one. The the second is there was a question that came from the board which I thought was and it I hate to go back to academics but I think since we're we we're blending the two there was a question Liz it was your question and it was your question around is question 11 and just for uh those who are listening the question state there is some confusion around tier three interventions not in terms of how students are identified but who ultimately receives services After review of the elementary decision guidelines 2526 academic needs tier 3 document, it appears that

089many students below the 25th percentile are not receiving tier 3 support. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding this. You're not. Um, and I think that's why I want to just point out, Jason, what happens with the proposal you're putting on the table is this. We have such limited work with our intervention teachers because the state has mandated. So I want to go back to Miss Bach. The state have mandated under at 20 that we work with children at the K3 level, kindergarten through third grade with their personal reading points. And so the number even with the 15 intervention teachers that we currently have, they're stretched because they we have we're obligated to meet the needs of those children in kindergarten, first, second, and third. And then to your point, Liz, a child who may

090be in fourth grade and and it's between the 25th and 15th percentile, they're getting help in their win time only. They're not getting the support from the intervention teachers because those intervention teachers are stretched. And that support even gets more stretched in math from a K5 level because we don't have the the legal mandate yet from the legislature is coming. Um and so they're going to do something very similar with AT20 and math as they're currently doing in and reading. So that's a long way of saying Jason that anytime we start talking about and I think that was the the the positive to people pushing back on the reduction of intervention teachers last week when you start pushing back on it then it directly ties back to your question Liz of so how are we

091supporting children the last thing I would say is that Mr. Gala the principal at Tulsa West indicated that he has children who are in need when they come to high school and it's hard to hatch them up. We believe that through AT20 over time we can get to those students and that what we need to do in the short term is some of the things that we're targeting now. But we believe that with AT 20 and those personal reading plans that that's going to eventually make sure that we're not just continuing to to metriculate students through our system who are struggling with reading. So that's a that's a tie-in with the two >> I would want to add that also those interventionists are extending >> so taking students um further because they need it and

092there are students um who um many of them fall in the broader category of neurodeiversity who don't necessarily qualify um at the IEP level or need some other kinds of supports who would be also served um in those spaces and may need those services all the way through graduation. So, I think it's difficult for me to conceptualize taking one more person out of the academic side at this point because I feel like they're already stretching um to cover um what they're doing. Yeah. >> I just want to clarify that our um our current academic specialists or proposed academic intervention teachers are they they actually don't work with students to extend their learning. that really happens with in collaboration with tier 2 and tier one um with classroom teachers and um >> and the coaches. Okay.

093Yeah. Thank you for clarifying that. >> Yes, Miss B. >> That was going to be my point too was it just highlights again how important our coaches are because we are helping teachers meet the needs of the students in their classroom that don't qualify for a tier three pull out. just in case our um district folks are having whiplash. Um I think it's really important to realize that we're working through some really hard pieces here um about how to spread the limited resources. Is there are there any board members? Maybe Mr. Bower hasn't had a chance to say anything yet tonight which is very out of character. So um do you do you have some comments? Going into this meeting and going into April 13, I was very much of the same concern as Mr.

094W here. I am very concerned because if we have disregulated students in classrooms, there's no real academic progress that's going to be made regardless of having curriculum coaches that to the plan that uh Mr. Wider put forward. How are we going to split two if we're able to save them or five? two and we're able to save those two positions and split them across the nine schools that we have which goes to uh Mazoski's point of trying to figure out where they actually end up going. Um, if the core of the decision is truly between the AITS and the coaches, I'm still torn depending on which way we want to go. So, I'm still able it's there. I would like to pivot the conversation to something that one of my colleagues and I don't know

095who already advocated for in the question book uh that we got. Are there other places that we could free up FTD? Whether that be bad managers, whether that be in um the business office, HR sense. Um and there is a very well thoughtout response to each of those. Uh >> share some of those responses, >> but I would think that would be wise to share those as well. want to take that on maybe read the question and then a sum shorter summary or >> uh so one of the questions were was are we able to combine some of the HR specialists I wish I had the the flowchart but um and or the dis the director of HR and and so from a visual standpoint we have a chief of talent we have a director

096of human resources and we have three HR specialists and those Thank Those three HR specialists are in the area of benefits um substitutes and offboarding and licensing and onboarding. And so can we can we do that? Mike, the the first answer we tried to put in the response is that and I think Jason said it, we'll be back doing this next year. And so whatever we don't reduce this year, I think we just need to all prepare organizationally. We'll be back next year. Um that's number one. So the answer is yes. We may be at a point where we have to do it. I think Miss Bach's point of this is also this time next year the the bianual budget will start being developed and so uh whoever chooses to be on the legislative advocacy

097committee has a lot of work to do. I think um the other component that I would just share with you and Miss Zelazowski pointed this out so I want to give you the space to speak to this is we're really proud of where our insurance renewal has come in at is saving us money and we don't believe that we would have been able to do it without the structure we have. Um staff members have shared with me people who are in the midst of having babies, who are dealing with family uh FMLA issues. They they speak to the fact that we have a benefits specialist and how that person is so responsive to them. Um I get the emails internally when we have uh substitute needs and there's an SOS that goes out. Nathan, who's

098in the HR department, deserves a lot of credit. He goes, he's one of those unsung heroes at Fiser that he calls people day and night to make sure that there are subs in front of kids during the day. And the licensing of uh of a of a school system our size really takes a lot of effort and we have a a licensing specialist that does a really amazing job. If that work went on to the plate of either Miss Ella or Miss Claybour, we would be less responsive as an organization. But Sarah, I I want to give you the floor. >> Uh thank you, Dr. Means. When I came into the district, we had we uh I was the only administrator. We had two specialists. Um and um we we quickly pivoted to add the

099third specialist and add a director. Um uh we we are stretched as we are as many other divisions are. Um, and I know some of the changes we've been able to um we've been able to make um and areas we've been able to improve on have been wellreceived. We will absolutely do our part. Um, you know, as as we all um as we all do more with less. Um, and I mean there would there would be some changes to what we we have been able to do if we made a reduction. >> Two. Oh, go ahead. Uh, so we received an update in finance last week um that I think I don't know when you'll be bringing it to the full board, but I think it really showed how much work um Sarah and her

100team do. And when I saw this chart, I immediately thought that it was very lean for an organization our size with how many staff we have kind of like part-time staff, full-time staff, seasonal staff. Um, so I hope these go online because I think they're really helpful. >> these being the charts. Um, because I I asked for these because I get that feedback all the time. And then when I think when you see how tiny even finance too is um but especially human resources um I know for certain that the work that your team and what we were presented at the finance committee this month in terms of the really great health insurance, the additional benefits that our staff are going to have access to. um they absolutely would not happen without this whole team.

101>> Also, the board's been able to get a lot more data. So, um for example, the staffing reports, >> right, >> a lot sooner and more detailed and the open enrollment reports, all of those um depend upon the work in that area >> and the staff staffing is just like live too. It's always up. Did you want to say anything else Michelle before you go? >> I would preview that on Monday we'll have our first glimpse at our benefits renewal. >> Okay. Yeah, it's not on the official agenda, but thanks for mentioning that that's been some of the work that's being done. Um that's not always a cost to sometimes a savings um when we have people. Mr. I'd just like to echo uh what Liz has said, but take an even firmer stance that

102this organization is already running very lean. I know a lot of people think it's topheavy. That is absolutely not the case. And I and I will defend that till my last day. We if anything, we need a little bit more. We need a little bit more in it. We need a little bit more just in general. Uh when you have a footprint and again the community chose to maintain a large footprint via voting. So that is what we are dealing with. We have to play with the cards we're dealt to manage that kind of an organization. You need all of these things. you need an HR department, not just an HR person. So, I'm in strong I strongly stand behind where where and what we have from an administrative standpoint. And I also would agree

103that with the recommendation that having a second communication person is in my opinion absolutely vital because none of this matters if it's not communicated to our constituents and the public and who we're representing. So again, uh, and thank you very much, uh, Scott, Sarah, like, and and Kevin, uh, everything that has been done from a data organization standpoint. It It is an order of magnitude better than what it was when I first started here a little over a year and a half ago. uh that stuff doesn't just magically happen. It takes a lot of work and I'd also like to recognize the data team that's sitting behind there not really getting any credit for any of this. Um that that is a lot of work. So again that I just wanted to speak my piece

104on it and make it definitive that again my opinion but um that's where I I stand. I don't think we can afford to to cut. We can hold we can hold on on building more. Uh but I don't think we can afford to cut. We will we cut anything else at at an organizational leadership level. You're going to see it trickle down in two, three, four years and everything good that has been built will eventually crumble. >> Thank you, Dr. Worley. Thank you. I guess Dr. But I would just add that and the board are asking the right questions, right? I mean, so you're you're supposed to ask those probing questions and we anticipate that those questions will continue. Um, there was a second question, if you may, if I may, it was a second

105question was around how many accounting and payroll specialists are there and uh if more than one, could these be combined? And the answer and and Mr. Eer, you were welcome to weigh in as well. The answer that was composed was the business office is made up of single FTEES in the following positions. CFO, director of finance, account uh account payable clerk, payroll specialist, grant specialist, purchasing manager, and administrative assistant. While the district will continue to pursue operational efficiencies, it's important to note that external auditors have consistently identified business office staffing as a strength while also noting a lack of separation of duties due to underst staffing. Nonetheless, it would be possible to reduce a position, but only if we were to reduce payroll from twice per month to monthly and accounts payable from weekly to

106monthly. So in other words, we could again we we we are expecting these questions and we need to be prepared for a response. We can we can reduce to what Jason said. We just may not be as efficient and responsive as we've been in the past. Scott, is there anything else you would answer? >> Okay, there's one more question in there that we should put out into the open. Um I think yeah >> computer admin >> there is computer I I thought Mr. Walker described you're well >> you're right the score of >> doing reader theater here. >> No I mean I think except that I'm not sure that we fully got out that we're already um lower on computer support specialists than most districts our size. Um and in some ways the demand is

107going to continue to go up there. Um and across all of these positions, however we figure it out, even though there was an extra year given for the transition um to uh fully accessible documents and materials that is I'm in the midst of it in my own uh work as as anyone who works in a a school system from K through 18 or 20 or whatever. Um it's it is a huge lift and everybody has to lift. Um and it particularly takes people who can help leverage some of the tools um of the new world of and new old world of AI to do some of that lifting because it's uh it's to make all documents all materials um accessible is extremely important but it is a big change and what's one key example would

108be trying to work through PDFs. PDFs are extremely difficult to transition and we've become very reliant um in academic worlds on PDFs um because everyone can open them and see the same thing but the folks who have disabilities can't see much of anything at all. So that just that's sort of an oversimplification but that I mean that's a place where we're already kind of weak. I was just going to say, can you just spell that out why that change is being up being mandated for anyone listening on? >> Well, as I said, right now um documents are not universally accessible and videos are not universally accessible and pretty much the way major ways that we are learning and teaching are leaving people out >> and it's being mandated. My understand it's a federal mandate but

109we just got a a little extension but that doesn't mean that we slow down because it's a huge lift >> right but just like this isn't a thing that we want I mean of course we want to do this and we have to do this >> there was a mandate a federal mandate from the Biden administration that that mandated that as Dr. stated that educational institutions had to make uh accessible through ADA all their materials, websites, materials, you name it. It was a a significant heavy lift. Dr. Worley's 100% right. I've never seen Jesse Tuttle so happy. U the the ruling came down uh yesterday that the Department of Justice was going to extend it one additional year. um uh the the deadline was coming up on that accessibility shift and and so um it

110that additional year sounds like a long time and it still isn't because of the volume that we all have to to to take on. Um but that's that's the background I think you're asking. >> yes ma'am. I think the year is the one way to put it is the year is coming because it's very important to do but I'm not sure anybody had a full um understanding of the capacity it was going to take to really do this um the right way. Once many of these things are in place and become systems and structures and the norm um you know it can flow but right now the transitions which it really shouldn't have taken us this long um in the first place but it um it is work to be done and if we get

111done early great but um yeah it's it's a huge lift and it's the thing is it hits every single department and area over the long term. The the question that was posed by a board member was, "We currently have seven computer spe support specialists. Could this be reduced?" In the response, during the 23 24 fiscal year, we evaluated our staffing in this area compared to peers. And we learned that we were pretty severely understaffed and currently getting by with less FTE given our numbers of number of devices in this school system. Given the size of the district and the number of schools served, current staffing levels for computer support are already thin. and lean. Uh any reduction in this area would have a direct and adverse impact on teachers and classroom instruction absent eliminating student

112devices. That is not a path to reduce that. There is not excuse me there is not a path uh to reduce staff in this department. >> Okay. And the fourth one I I should add to that. I did leave something out um because I didn't think of things like this meeting. Uh I I think sometimes we think of the tech people as just the computers. They're also all our AV uh at the buildings and the district level. So >> yeah, >> being able to have Zoom at a board meeting is not and not every district does that >> at at committees, at board meetings. Um I just got an email from Jamie. He's concerned about the technology uh of these particular meetings. So um none of these things run without people. I think it would

113be fair to say that you've entertained requests for better technology almost every year and we rarely have been able to meet fully meet what the needs are. Is that a fair >> Yeah. U we're we're scraping by. >> Yeah, we said no a number of times. Okay. Um anything else on technology? Okay. Then the fourth question, um, could we look at reductions in data and quality analytics? Could the three data managers be reduced to two? Um, and that question also, and this just kind of mixes two things together, but I'll read it anyway. Does a student growth coordinator fall into this category? >> You want to ask? >> Sure. Um, it is likely that we are going to have to look at the staffing plan for data and quality analytics uh for the 2728 school

114year. Uh I I think we are and I appreciate the compliment. Uh Miss Whites in the audience. I think we've done a lot of really good work with our data. Uh but I think we're going to also have to look at the fact that we have um a state assessment leader in that that team and then three data managers. Um I think we're going to have to try to look at that staffing to be efficient moving forward. >> Then can you clarify that the student growth coordinator does not follow >> Yeah. No, the student growth coordinator is not part of the data and quality analytics team. Uh the role uh this the role focuses on supporting students who qualify for extending academic services due to demonstrating talent and works closely with teachers, parents um and

115principles to ensure that those needs are um are effectively met. The student growth coordinator also ensures that the academic specialists are provided with learning materials and support for tier three. This position will also be the main point of contact for AT20 um supporting JK and ensuring that academic uh student support teams are functioning across the district in addition to talent development. >> Just to follow up um this document can that be sure >> added to the meetings materials tonight um so that people who are listening can go and see it as well. Um, this is just a question. Is the student growth coordinator a position that has changed the title? Is that now the academic operations coordinator? >> Yes. >> And it does not fall under the data and analytics. But >> what else? We've

116been almost coming up almost two hours on our meeting. What else um did you want to ask? Um, yes, please. What's so the intervention teachers I'm wondering like what's what proportion of K through8 students um work with like an intervention teacher every year and then is there any data like on how efficient that is like is there like of the students who fall below the 25th percentile and if they work with percent come back above that or something that Dr. Marble, do you mind starting a response to the questions? >> I'm going to need just a couple of minutes to pull up some data. >> It's kind of very similar to our educational assistant um question that there is data that support how many students are served and why we serve them. >> So, we

117we'll come back here to your very good question. While she's filling that up, I can just kind of answer a little bit question because actually >> and it would be it would be wonderful if you just introduced yourself and name and title as well. >> Sure. Brenda Jones, elementary literacy coordinator next year will be joining the K12 team. So, um, act 20 has come up a lot and there's conversations about serving needs. you guys have incredibly hard decisions in front of you. And so I think sometimes when some of these vague things, especially legislation and other components that are pushing into systems come in, precision and all the context is really important. So I just want to clarify a few things also hopefully maybe provide further context as Dr. Marble is looking up that information

118for you. Um, act 20 legislates. The law expects that any student following below the 25th percentile is receiving a personalized reading plan. How districts and systems choose to execute that is on them. The reason I bring that up is because it's really important as you mentioned um that when we think about our fourth and fifth graders, should there be further legislation that rolls upwards and in other states there is legislation that is rolling upwards. It is critical that our teachers are equipped with the skills necessary to deliver the plans because there's many districts where there's just not enough interventionists to service those students. And we know more than anybody that our tier one classroom teachers are the best and highest lever for them. The coaches serve in that professional learning role to equip them and

119they also support the classroom teachers who are delivering the PRPs because so sometimes I think we think about students receiving PRPS and academic specialist roles. They are absolutely there and there are classroom teachers who are also required to be delivering PRPS. The coach's responsibility is to develop the skill sets of those teachers so they are equipped and confident and efficacious enough to deliver that which translates into tier one and that those kiddos can come right back into the classroom and do the do the tier one learning. So again just adding that precision and further context because sometimes all of this stuff can get really big and we broad brush just want to added add in those pieces. So thank you. Just a facilitation note. Um there is a hand raised but we do not have

120any more public comment um time uh scheduled tonight. So um if there are additional people this is just board working time. Uh please we really encourage you to send us an email so that we get the content question or thoughts that you have. We don't want to lose that. Um but we this is not a meeting where we can call on additional um public um members. Um, thank you. Um, Dr. Maro, please proceed. >> Um, so currently, uh, students in SK through 8th grade, they're of the students in SK through 8th grade, I should say 9% are working with an, um, academic intervention teacher. Uh, but to Miss Jones point, um, really strengthening tier one so that students don't develop those gaps is super important. Um, and it did used to be we did used

121to have higher number of students that were in need and because of all of the hard work of our classroom teachers, we have reduced that number from 14% to now 9%. And so the goal is to have no none, right? The goal is zero. Um, so that is just a testament to the work that's been happening at the at the elementary and middle school level. >> Thank you. Any other questions before I call and ask what we want to do to proceed from here? Any other staff members have some content that you they're here tonight that you wish we had heard um that didn't come up due to our questions? Okay. Yes. >> Yes. I want to say something to everybody who's here. Your work is tremendous. Nothing said, discussed, or proposed, please know, is

122not a reflection on what any what what I won't I won't speak for the board, but I see heads nodding. But we please know that it's not meant at all to say you're some one person's work is more important than another person's work. I live here because of a big part of it is because of the work that happens in this school district and you do tremendous work. Please know that >> I think again to our to beat our vision the lights making it hard ensure an exceptional and equitable learning experience for all. I mean that's really what brings us together. I think we should as hard as this is I think that we're doing really really important work and and really trusting each other um and trying not to trying to go back and

123forth between the roles and the humans. Um it it is hard work and we all wish that um we had more resources but we don't. So um board members, what would you like to do between now and our next meeting? What do you need? Um we know that we'll be taking uh an action vote at the next time. What do you need to get to that place? >> Yes, Miss Bach and then Mr. Wier. >> I'm not sure. I'm not sure. >> Um, but from what Dr. Marblewood just had said, we're making progress. We're doing good work. Um, and then Dr. Mean said, he intended to recommend that we um vote on the alternative model D. That to me seems like we're changing course. We're not doing what has shown good results. So, that makes

124me nervous. Um, I don't want to stray from a successful cap when I look at uh >> I think that the was and and these miles were responsive to what board members and community members were asking for. >> Yeah. I just want to clarify for people who signed on tonight for the first time that these were put together because we asked for models and we asked for models that used fewer um CNI. I would prefer not to give you any of the models, but I mean we we had the 13 we had the meeting last week Monday and and you appropriately asked for alternatives. >> Um what I right now the the plan I like the best and could even maybe um tweak a little bit is alternative model A. Uh, I think that gets

125us more like kind of a a happy medium where everybody's giving a little bit more. Everyone's giving something up, but we're not taking away from one area so much. So, I don't know if if we could meet in the middle with like um doing 13 interventionist teachers and 13 CNI specialists. I don't know how those numbers work as far as putting them in the appropriate buildings, but um I see that as a kind of a compromise. I'm not sure how that works in practice and if everyone is we might have to take a step back and and have different expectations as well. I think those are conversations we'll have later, but that's kind of where I'm sitting right now. Um I see that as in my mind a reasonable compromise. So two things that model

126A doesn't have. Um one is the additional um behavioral specialist, correct me if I'm wrong, which was a concern raised last time about how stretched the one would be. And secondly, it doesn't have the the um flexibility uh to address what might be anticipated in finance around um increased costs for um for uh teacher salary. I'm not I'm just saying this like not an opinion just stating the the differences. >> We would address the behavior of specialist, >> right? Maybe be good invest a AITS and the CNI specialist >> move one AIT back to a coach. You might want balance. But remember, we also were clear that we can't just do numbers. We also have numbers of buildings and so we'd have to get some sense of we can't just keep dividing people either. Mr.

127White, you had your hand up next and time roll. >> My question was more on a matter of procedure. What should we expect next? Uh are I know there'll probably be emails and communications going back and forth between now and then, but on next Monday, are we going to come in here and vote on initial model 1 A B C none like or is is one recommendation going to be presented to us? >> I think we have a couple paths forward. Um we could consider these the recommendations and we could put them on the one and them on the table and make amendments. Um or we could ask our district um leaders to make one more rendition um based on what they heard tonight. Um personally, I'm open to either way forward. Um uh depending

128upon whether where our district leaders are at, if they see that as a functionally effective use of their time and move us forward, great. Um if they don't then I think we would be going through the process of um putting um taking the their guidance even if that's model D and then going through a process of um seeing who where the majority lies in terms of um adding amendments and making changes. Does that get to your question? Anyone disagree with that? I think it's flexible and I just want to have expectations of what >> I mean if the district has a big aha between now and you know the weekend please send it our way. I mean I think we've we've all worked collaboratively really well together. So, something's been loosened up in the puzzle

129building tonight. Um, I think, you know, we definitely want to hear it, but I also don't think we want you to, you know, we're asking you to put in more hours when we might start rearranging things anyway this time around. Um well in terms of like narrowing this down to a proposal that ultimately needs to get four of us to agree on I guess um we need to do that on Monday because of >> we have to time wise Monday I want to like keep that front of mind that we don't have like an infinite amount of time to decide this um something for me that stands out in Um, and I don't know if like we want to go around and share like our favorite parts or like non-negotiables for us personally or I

130don't know, but >> I think that might be helpful. And I we have a lot else on the agenda as well on Monday. So, so anything that we can wrap up tonight with that kind of sharing would probably be really good. Thank you for suggesting that. >> So, for me, >> you want to kick that off? >> Sure. Uh, for me, I would say if we're going to have a behavioral interventionist that I would want two um because I think for that role to be successful um that'll be really hard with nine schools. And it sounds like the way that Miss Clem has described it, it sounds like it could be a really useful, helpful role for our students and staff. I just um I don't know because of house I know it's kind of

131weird to suggest two or none um but I just don't know how effective one of those goals would be in our district. Um the other thing I um I like the proposals that have an instructional coach at each of our schools. Um, that's something that I've heard >> number-wise, uh, B letterwise >> and C. >> That's something that I've heard a lot from staff in the schools is that they wish um that the those positions were more a part of the school culture. And so I think that that helps that. I have to be really honest. I think by model D is my least desired model. Um I understand that it's negotiations with the union. Um they're the teachers are getting um a good increase next year for their pay. They're getting the extra from

132the referendum and they're also getting a really great benefits package. So to me pulling um that one additional behavior specialist and then also two of those educational assistants. Um for me the balance of like the slight increase in salary that they're trying that they're negotiating for versus those three key staff members to me doesn't make sense for looking at it from the whole system. Moral, can I ask a clarifying question? Sure. Um, so I heard you say uh the desire for there to be considered um a a coacher, a CNI specialist at every school and and you named models B and C >> and we have minus monastery, we have 13 buildings. >> I was going to say I was going to ask I don't think those cover elementary. Oh, each elementary school. >> Each

133elementary school. >> Got it. Okay. Thank you for the >> And I So, if each elementary school has, and I know that it can't just be like numbers like this, but if each elementary school had nine, the middle school had two, then the high school could still have three with 14. >> 14. Yeah. So that's like another I'm like okay 14 to me seems like I don't want to say the right number but a rational number for the number >> 14 >> interventions. Okay making sure >> one at each elementary school two at the middle schools and three at the high schools >> and you're right >> you're talking about coaches or interventions >> interventions. So currently we don't have intervention like the inter the intervention work that we do at the high school. >>

134Yeah, that's 14 right now. I'm >> I mean coaches. >> Okay. >> I don't mean the CNI specialist. >> Yes. >> You would move them up to 14, which would put your coaches at >> 11. You'd have >> your interventionist. You'd have to flip them. If you had 14 right now in academic intervention as teachers in model C and 11, you'd just be flipping those numbers. >> Where's A flipped over? >> A flipped over is 12 and 14. >> Yes, it would be 14 and 12. >> Unless she wants a second behavioral specialist, >> correct? >> Which would then be C. 14 does not have an um behavioral specialist at a second one. >> They were clarifying this so much for all of us. That was a little bit of >> being a little funny

135because now I'm even more confused than I was before. Okay, someone else. Um non-negotiables for me. Um, you know, based on some of the discussion tonight, um, I I really like the model that Miss Clem is putting forward. Um, I have a lot of confidence in it. Um, that it's not going to make big cuts. Um, and so I wouldn't want to take from the academic side, however those positions fall. Um, and I think I'd be a little different. I think I sort of if we could split the interventionists and the um as close as we could and uh uh the interventionist and the C I'm still learning the new names. The CNI um split them as evenly as we have could within reason. I think they both have really good roles. I think we

136made a good move to not cut so many um academic interventionists when we asked for that last week. Maybe we flipped it a little too far. So whether it's, you know, 13 and 11 or something like that, however it sorts out, um I don't want to move one to the the proposal made. I I would have a hard time moving one more um of those positions over to even though I'm very strong advocate of of um I just don't think we can take more people um out of the supports partly. maybe in another year or another two years or another three years, but as we've mentioned, we've started making some good progress. Um, we're starting to see some balance in our schools. Um, and our students to, you know, the need, yes, they need the

137SEAL in order to learn as well. I don't disagree with that. Um it does feel like, you know, that behavioral special interventionists might um it might be hard that they're running between schools and so there would be some decisions to make maybe narrowing down which schools are seeing the most um challenging classrooms and and focusing them there even if we just had one. So I didn't make things any easier. But anyone else non-negotiable? I don't I don't so I have to say mine is I don't want to shift the what is it unfortunate we're short in every area but the basic balance that's been identified between those two areas >> a lot of what I am looking for is in what was emailed and I I heard that will be shared and thank you but

138uh really just to clarify like my non-negotiable is we have five seals that have strong relationships If those five individuals are not in this organization or if we if we don't at least retain three of the five in this organization, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice. >> Modski may just ask this question of Missowski. Of the fiveCL specialists, how many have the ability to have positions elsewhere in the district? It may not be as a SEO specialist, but how many of them have a landing spot? >> Four. >> So they they will remain in the district. >> It's their choice ultimately, but they're they to your point, Jason, I agree with you. They're they're not seal specialists, but there's still a space if they choose to remain with us. There is a landing

139space for them. of the 26.1 FTE that we are proposing to reduce there's a total of four people who don't have a position of the four the two administrators and I don't want to forget that that we are we have reduced two administrators those two administrators don't have a place um for next year and then there's two other teachers Sarah you may want to speak to that one >> yeah um so uh one of the things and I'm not And I do not intend to take us off course, but uh one of the topics we have not touched on tonight is the um leadership structure within the division of people and family support. So the um the director of um people services potentially that could be a landing spot for an educator in our organization

140who doesn't have a job. Um and so I mean so there are a number of considerations. So there could be as few as two individuals that are currently employed here that wouldn't have an opportunity, you know, to continue with us next year. Right now there's like there's four with still a staffing plan yet to be um yet to be approved. And to Dr. release point. Um, uh, there there are a lot of complex movements in terms of, you know, uh, where staff members can be placed based on certification, what compensation looks like in all of those areas. And so, we're just doing our best to walk thoughtfully and carefully through um through the development while knowing that uh that we're we're still in limbo. So, for instance, right now we have about um 10 teachers

141uh who will ultimately have elementary placements um but our elementary middle school placements. Right now, I haven't placed any of them because I um we're up in the air. >> I can restate >> restate my my my nonnegotiable forget about everything else. The non-negotiable for me is that we do not reduce the amount of support and services for social emotional learning as a whole within the organization. That's my non-negotiable. I I can't see it go down because I think what you've built is great. And if and the restructuring and the moving of positions, no, that that is okay. I just don't want to see what we've built be pulled away. And Mr. Bower's point, kids that are dysregulated throw everything else out the window. They're not going to learn anything until they get back to

142a regulated state. And even then, they may not they may be gone for the day. They may not be receptive. And I think as Dr. really indicated um the plan that pupil and family supports have put in place we believe does address the needs of our students uh and it is more systemic and um strategic. >> Dr. Worley, may I um make a suggestion to kind of just keep the conversation moving because you're moving in a good direction. I it sounds like you may be landing in a modify C where you have feel like the secondary >> right >> school plan right >> a modified see where you have 12 CNI specialists and 13 academic intervention teachers so it would be 12 CNI specialists >> and 13 academic intervention teachers but you're you're in the

143midst of your conversation but I I I offer that for your consideration >> couple of the people haven't had a chance to say they're non-negotiable including our student um board members Um, she's got a non-negotiable. We want to hear it. Students haven't had a big role in this conversation. >> I just thought about something. So, Miss Hammer Roland, do you want your non-negotiable have to CNI or you should go there? >> My my biggest concern with the coaching or CNI, yes, the coaches, um, is the impact on our secondary schools. Um, so we have and I I mean it makes sense that we're going to focus on the reading and the math. Um, it aligns with like what our new curriculum is, but we're going to be looking at social studies uh curriculum for next

144year, right? And so it concerns me to not have somebody identified or enroll identified that would support all of the other teachers and >> curriculum. >> They have Yeah. But if they're now the curriculum coordinators though are spread from K to 12 and they're not just at the high school. Um, I think just generally in the book we talk a lot about our elementary schools because I we do um but I I just want to make sure that when we're making these decisions that we don't forget about our secondary schools and I know the hope is that we meet our students before they get into the secondary school with these needs. Um, but that doesn't always happen. So, I just want to make sure that we're doing everything we can um to have our graduates

145proficient and um set for their, you know, postsecondary life. So, I'm just concerned. That's what I'm concerned about. >> So, I think Yeah, I think I would say there's two positions that helped them get there. The >> Right. Yes. >> where where it's the same level. I know it takes a little bit of time to for this system to work and for us to see it in the high school levels, but I just want to make sure that the the staff at the secondary schools like feel supported by this board um and and um administration just as much as our elementary staff. >> There is an option to go with a that sort of middle line compromised number and express that concern. um and uh work for ways forward and seeing who rises up um

146from like the area of science or the area of social studies that um may be coming from spaces that like future spaces or um other building spaces. You know, it's hopeful and maybe not realistic. and was like I would be remiss I'm sitting here and should I say it just say and we've had push back at the high school level around coaches. >> So I mean so some of the informal push back have been from the high school. So I I appreciate some of the emails that you've received saying that this is really working well. I also I mean we all hear it. I think there's been >> right >> I I I think if there if we were really trying to account for where some of the angst is also around cooji has been

147at that high school >> and both our high schools aren't the same. So that may just be something that needs to be worked out in the recipe right once the broad categories are created. Um so >> did you do you want to say something about your non-negotiables or your hopes? >> Yeah. Um, >> I I No, I don't know if I have a non-negotiable. Well, if we're we keep going back and forth. People who interact with students, we've got to look out for them. And I know I know like both curriculum instruction specialists and intervention teachers interact with our students and support them and support our teachers in doing the work that they're doing. and that uh I don't know my hope is that um our school leaders we received an email from one school

148leader who put their position out there about what would be helpful for them, what is currently helpful and what would probably not be helpful. And I hope that my hope is that um school leaders and the leader teams are having time to look at this and and also consider where what what they um what would work in their schools. I it would be um unfortunate to be saying we want this support or we need these people and to know that like maybe the school teams themselves are safe. That doesn't that doesn't really make sense. So just just some verification from some school leaders that yes this we're going to give us these people and we are going to make the most out of it. with the understanding that we aren't going to meet all the

149need, >> right? That that we can't make it all happen just that it's that they're realistic that they're that it's a realistic >> power. So, so modify C is 12. Are you are you saying the 1213 split? >> Yes. Where we're flipping the CN >> not that would be a different C >> a model, right? Yeah. C2 >> C2 you would C2 would be 14 CNI and 11. >> No 13. Oh, that's not what Lucy's probably. >> I reconsider. No, 13 >> 13 academic intervention teachers and 12 >> Oh, that's one. >> So, 14 and 11. >> C1 would be 12 CNI and 13 AIT. Another version of that. Yeah, that's why I mean we can call C1. I've been calling it modify C, but I think it it addresses what I've been hearing this

150evening where can >> we make model it would confuse so much to make model D an E. Make it an E and put a B in there that is what you just spoke. >> So make model D. Make the new model D the 123. >> I got it. I understand. >> I just see one since you just >> I understand. So we're going to make that the new model D. And then the current model D becomes model D. >> I think that >> that's what you're saying. Yeah, I understand. >> That's what I'm suggesting. That'll confuse somebody, but >> No, no, I'm I'm tracking. And just so we're clear, the new model D addresses a few things. It you get the two behavioral specialist, so it doesn't it doesn't reduce what we're supporting from acl

151standpoint. It it gives more coaching to the schools. And I think on Monday evening, you could even add the edict of make sure there's three of those people at the high school level. So just kind of keep that in the back of your mind. Then you still have 13 academic intervention teachers. So uh we'll we'll modify this this uh this document. >> I'm not going to dictate to the administration by recommend my I would like to have for us to to be good to put that one forward, but I would like Yeah. I will make that. >> Anyone else? Is that that what you were? Okay. >> Anyone else? >> Yes, please. >> 12 13 12. >> And so in other words, if there was 13 CNI specialists and 12 intervention teachers >> or having

15212 CNI 13 like 13. >> I think the 12 to answer you great question. I think having 12 CNI specialists is better than what we were looking at with model B or model D for sure and and and while it's not the 15 that was proposed I I think that we get closer to what we want to do in supporting teachers and curriculum m having the 13 academic intervention teachers will allow us to continue to meet the needs of as many students as possible but also recognizing that we'll never intervene our way out of of getting better as an institution. I think that's what Dr. Marble has always tried to state um and what you've been hearing this evening that we we can't intervene our way out and help all those kids. Um but it

153does allow us to have an Apple team. I think the other thing that to to your question is that we have had um considerable input from the community on both sides but there um if we speak to our teacher facing not completely though it's kind of split at this point but there has been um we can't forget that what just came in is maybe more on our minds but what came in a week ago was very strongly um asking for um fewer CNI um And so I just want to keep we we got to keep this community public comment in in balance. I think it's kind of gotten to a place where we're maybe about 50/50, but to that point I mean and and a half we can't really go five. So um it maybe

154is as close as we can get to what we're hearing from the different voices. >> Just one last. So, what I think I I liked about C was um because I would say secondary teachers and staff have definitely been pro coach. Not that anybody's antic. I should say they've advocated for >> secondary teachers. I think it's a mix. >> What I've Okay, I can only speak to what I've done is a pretty clear mix. Um and then elementary I think have been fairly more CN specialists or teachers. They want the intervention teachers. So that makes it hard because we're not going to we're we're coming up with this big plan. We're not saying you have to put this many in elementary, this many in middle, this in that's the admin administrator's job. But I think

155I've received very splits, >> right? because some of the people who spoke out the week before about some of the emails we got about CNI versus ed who were K through 12, they weren't necessarily in one area or another. So, I just don't want to I don't I'm just not expressing an opinion here, but I want to say we don't want to forget what we got was each week it's been kind of a reaction. When we had a higher in one area, we got that's what we don't want and then now this week it kind of flipped. So, it was good to test the waters. Thank you Dr. means for for putting together and Dr. Marvel for putting together the whole team um sort of like the mirror image and what that would look like

156so we could get that feeling in that community comment. I know it was a hard process to do that but I think it has helped us um to get a better sense of of where we can end up. Um, with that, I think I'm going to um suggest that we um in the midst of um brain tiredness for all of us, maybe we um say this was a very productive meeting. Um no, and thank you for the time. We we do appreciate the heavy lift that you've done. And what just looking at this document, what we're going to do then is create um a new model. We're going to create a model. Go ahead. a new D a new model and it's going to be 12 CNI specialists and >> and then we're going to

157slide D over and it becomes E >> that that so you'll see that we'll try to get we have all these documents both the the written responses to the board and this out on board dots now um and then we'll try to get the new modified one out as soon as possible. Okay, thank you. Okay. So, uh we'll move to number four, adjournment. The time is 8:22 p.m. Um may I have a movement move to adjurnn. >> I move to adjourn. >> Thank you, Miss Rosinski. >> May I have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Mr. White. >> Um I'm going to call the role. Miss Bach. Yes, >> Mr. Bower. >> Yes, >> Mr. Bzinski. >> Yes, >> Miss Hammer Rollins. >> Yes, >> Mr. Morris. Excused. Mr. Wier. >> Yes. >> And

158I'm a yes. The motion carries. We are journed. Thank you for your work.