NHCS Board of Ed. Finance Committee Meeting | May 8, 2025

001Everybody, Phillips here, so we can start. Um, I'm calling this meeting to order. And Jenny, would you call the role, please? Pat Bradford, I am here. Josie Barnhart, here. Pete Wore, present. Kimberly Clark, here. Jana Lena here. Hannah Moon here. Philip Sutton here. Charlene Thompson. Jared Worthington here. Stephanie Walker here. Rod Zapple. Eric Cradle here. Amanda Kusiaak here. Lisa Wartzbacher. Natalie English here. John Hennitt, Christopher Riley. All right. Um, we're going to have the pledge of allegiance with Mr. Wore and um Pastor Beverly Kinlaw has an invocation that she called in to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Greetings. This is Reverend Beverly Kinlaw and I'd like to pray today for you for your

002meeting um at 12:30. So, if you will join with me and let me lift this up to the heavenly father. Father God, we come to you asking for your blessing and help as we are gathered together today. Father, we pray for guidance in the matters at hand and ask that you would clearly show us how to map out a plan for the financial course of the school district. And Lord, we thank you, God, that we know that you know how to accomplish this financial course. And Lord, impart to us wisdom, impart to us favor, God, for as we present these different options that they will be received. And Lord, we just give you honor and glory for you truly are a great God that answers prayer. We thank you God for accomplishing it. We thank

003you God for peace over this meeting in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. All right. Next item is approval of the agenda. Any voting member want to? So moved. All right. We have a first and a second. All in favor say I. I and the same thing with the minutes. Make a motion to approve the minutes. All right, we have the first and the second to approve the minutes. All in favor say I. I. Okay, we're going straight into the meet. We have um current capital projects, projects to consider for a building program. Um the board has not determined a priority yet. Um, the county will determine the best way to fund the building program, but it will be this body that makes the recommendation. So, no pressure there. Um, Rob Morgan is our new

004assistant superintendent for operations and planning, and he's right here. Take it away, Rob. All right. Good afternoon. Thank you. Um, so the handout that you have showing the current capital projects, um, I think what we wanted to really point out to to everyone is the number of projects you'll see on the far right column that we've got completion dates for. Majority of them have been completed andor have completion dates in the months ahead. Um, the other thing that I think is important to point out are the uh, encumbrance amounts. If you'll notice on um the last page, we have a total of let's see page six, we have a total of 9.563 million in encumbered funds. Roughly 73% of that is encumbered to New Hover High School and the projects going on there that we

005expect to be completed. Uh as of right now, they are on schedule, Mr. Sutton and uh we're hoping to see them done um close out hopefully by September 1st. Um so I think it's important to point out the fact that that that is accounting for the majority of our currently encumbered funds. Rob, can I a minute for clarity? Was it 73 or 70% is encumbered? Roughly 73%. Thank you, Rob. Is there a way we can get a figure minus the handover stuff? Uh, yes we can. I mean, I can certainly do it right now, but I can also get you that in in print. Madam Chair, yes. Can I ask a question? Sure. I heard a deadline of September 1st was the completion date for the new handover project and my understanding was that we

006were going to be ready to go for the next school year. Yeah, I'm sorry. I I referenced the closeout date. So, we expect to be done before school starts, but I don't know that all of those bills will be paid. Okay. Before Thank you for that clarity. I was I was under the impression that we were going to be done before school started. So, I just I heard that date and I wanted that. Yes. So, to clarify, close out means all bills paid. Correct. Okay. And that matters because of where the fiscal year ends. And it so it matters with this question of why is there money sitting in this account? Yes. When you haven't spent it when it's actually there that the bill might just not have been paid yet. Correct. Thank you. So

007for the purposes of this conversation, it matters specifically to encumbered funds. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. My apologies for coming. Good afternoon, Mr. Zapp. Commissioner Zapp. Uh, Mr. Morgan. Yes. Um, thank you for this breakdown. Very helpful. It's been a part of the conversation that's been happening throughout the community as to why that money, uh, the $13 million has been there. If I heard you correctly, you identified where at least 9 million of it or 9.5 million of it is going to go. Uh, that's encumbered at this point. Will all of the work be done by September 1st? It's expected to be. Yes, sir. Now, that's specific to New Hmer High School. So, we have other projects in there that you'll see with estimated completion dates that are further out. Um, like for example, I'm

008just, you know, I see some that are their completion dates are end of August, um, into October, end of October. So I just wanted to point out specifically what I was talking about because of because of how much of the large percentage of encumbered funds that are related to new handover. I wanted to point out those dates and that that figure and Miss Walker to answer your question minus new handover it is 2 million. Sorry. Okay. Thank you. That's important to think. That's why I just wanted to know the difference because I mean they all put together and you know the needs are far greater but if these are encumbered forms I mean that's we need to know that. Hey Rob. Yes. Would it be okay if you went through this and maybe it was

009what what you were going to do but if you talked about the project on the left and went all the way over to estimated completion date and the ones that are complete or have a date could we could we just note them and go down together? So, I think that's a big problem out there in the community for those funds sitting there. Um, and understanding where the fiscal year ends, where the school year ends, where the kids are not in the building so you can actually make the repair and then the time it takes to get closed out, where all the bills are paid. Okay. And Paul, before you start, can I make a comment? I just want the chair on this sheet, that last column, estimated completion date. That date is actually the completion

010date of the project. that is not the closeout date of when we expect all the invoices to be paid. So there will be a lag of you know the expenses being paid versus the when we think the project will actually be completed. I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware. Ashley, typically how long is that? It depends on because we go out and inspect and make sure the work is good. So it depends. But if we go out everything looks good, a month or two um is the estimate I would use. Leanne, would you agree? A month or two is usually on track with getting it invoices paid. contractor very small. They also in that process a lot of documentation they give us information. So they're assembling all that information. So it's a lot

011of little but it's just a lot of little Madam Chair, if I may, Leanne, first off, it's great to see you. Uh, thank you. Um, my concern was when does the money move out of the account? And, uh, so, if I'm hearing you right, months after the completion date that's written on this, uh, chart. Is that right? our contract. So all along the way all along the way in the process of construction once a month we're getting build by the contractor through real pay a process you're very familiar with Mr. Sappel. So as we get into the months of June and July we're going we get the bulk of our payouts from our contractors and into August as well. So our projects don't marry up with the fiscal year very well at all. Um because

012the most of the work has to occur over the summer. So when we get into August, we've completed the bulk of the work. We'll also be build for the bulk of that construction work. Um and what we've noted in the document that Mr. Morgan presented is just taking it out worst case scenario to where those would be zeroed out line items and it does involve that process that we call close out. So we've anticipated a couple of months a month or two out from the date that we believe we we will be substantially complete. In other words, we can occupy the space couple month within a month or two, we will have received all of our closeout documentation and we would be able to issue finance the final payout. That's a long- winded answer, but

013I hope it filled in. Very good answer. And Commissioner Zapple, I would just point out something I have observed over the years. It takes a while for the government to pay you, even the school district. It's it's a slow channel of mysterious things before the checker arrives. I agree. But you'll always know that the money will be there from the county as it always has been and always will be. Amen. Can I just add to I think that's where the the confusion and thank you very much for that explanation because I think the confusion is the timeline on things and how budget budgets roll. And so I'm looking at this list of capital projects. Is it like like do we go okay these are the ones we want to do this fiscal year right they're

014the ones at the top of the priority list right is that how this usually works with this list so this list is a list of our current projects so funding has already been identified for these projects we're already working and planning on these projects so so that was a good point has already been identified for these projects so these are the ones you want to I assume they're at the top of the list of importance right and that's how you deal with how you're going to do it for every year, right? And so when you do these lists, you you say, "Okay, we're going to need I'll just throw 12 million out there." And that's the request, right, in the budget. Um, I'm not sure if you have a follow-up question to that, Rob, because

015I know at our last budget meeting, we had a long discussion about this and how I think maybe there's a lack of I don't know, communication between us on how that that process is working for the schools and how the money should flow and it there's a real plan because I I feel like there is and I I referenced the binder like I think twice at that last meeting that Eddie would have when it had the list of priorities and I'm assuming that's what you guys decide every here is most important to be funded and then you submit that. So I just want to talk it out sure in public with everyone. Yep. So um we actually have a meeting where each department um so it's not just we talk a lot about facilities planning

016um but it's also technology has projects. We have furniture and equipment projects that come from our purchasing area. Um and of course maintenance has projects as well um that are discussed and so everyone brings all of their priorities and even within those priorities that they bring their priority one two three and so what's the top priority on this list and what is maybe the lowest priority on the list. Um and then that information is shared with the finance or well the capital it used to be capital committee but now that committee has rolled into this committee. Um and we have conversations about those things and then a ter determination from which now will be this committee. A recommendation would go to our board and then that the board would determine what the request to the

017county would be. Um this year the requests to the county were only the highest priorities from each of those areas I just mentioned. Go ahead. May I ask a clarifying because I think I think where I hear the concern at most from our commissioners, not just the ones at this table, is this a bulk of these funding came from really two years ago cycle ask and it was encumbered and then once the bidding process happened and going through and actually completing them, some are still not fully completed from two years ago. Now granted, you guys have been very generous with new handovers to be able to read responsive to the needs of close to $7 million this year, even though it wasn't budgeted for that. You you're right in saying when ask and you shall

018receive. Amen. So, um we are going to continue to do that. But I think where I hear the question often is the priority ask that we have for this year. Do we know in that priority one? If we receive whatever money we receive, we're obviously going to work as far down the list of priority ones that we can. Are those projects able to be completed in a one-year cycle or is it going to look longer like this potentially two-year cycle that some of these projects have taken to occur? That's where I hear feedback on my end. And is that where you're getting to? Yeah, I think to kind of compress it an excellent explanation uh if we had a capital improvement plan uh a CIP uh that one year, threeyear, fiveyear which like any plan

019can be adjusted when we have a new handover issue or a Pine Valley issue or whatever. But what happens is what we're seeing right here is it the priority all of a sudden pops up and usually about a month before we have to put a budget together you know so if we had that you know forwardlooking future plan we could all sit down and usually a CIP has a you know a timeline that would show Miss Barnard the uh when the project would start and when it would come to conclusion then you know Eric and Amanda life would be a joy uh because they would be able to kind of look out and see what what's coming again with knowing that there will be emergencies or you know urgent situations that pop up. So going

020forward a CIP would be a wonderful tool to help communication. I believe that it's essential actually. It's essential because I just think there's just there's something missing in the communication part. The needs are obviously there. I mean, I've seen the list. I've seen the binder. And and to to that point about capital needs like in our own county like they you're going to need building maintenance. You're going to need roses. You're going to need HBAC. You're going to need things that are going to regularly need fixing. Um and I don't know, I'm not going to speak to each list. I haven't read every single thing on here, but I mean I think to that point at least lets people know ahead of time. I think maybe some heartburn was when I I I I heard

021and this is just me hearing we're going to need $19 million this year. Like it just kind of popped out and I think people were like wow, you know, it the meat's probably were already there obviously. Um but I just think coming out like that it's a little bit of a shocker perhaps to folks that are trying to put together a budget, right? Um having a plan will be essential and I hope that uh we can do that. I think you can do that. I mean, I've seen the binder. I know that it exists and I know that we could probably come up with this is what we're going to need in the next one, three, and five, which I guess standard, right? Is that the industry standard for capital improvement? Well, if I may

022comment to that, we have a two-year look ahead. Great. That is we don't label it the capital improvement plan, but that's what exactly what it is. So, every year, and we have a we have a running list. It's probably the binder that you're referring to. Eddie likes everything in paper. I have it electronically. Um, so we receive requests every year from all of our campuses and and let me take it from a facilities and maintenance point of view for just a moment because like Ashley mentioned, there are many other departments who make requests, but from the standpoint of facilities and maintenance, we have an ongoing list of all the needs and every year we add to it. Some we take off because we were able to accomplish those projects, but we add to it every

023year. And then we prioritize those as Ashley referenced for priorities one, two, and three based on need. And then we use that to map out our for the next two years what work we need to have occur within the district. So we we do have that. it's maybe not as formal of a document and we could certainly formalize it and make it um more readily understandable to someone who's outside the district, but we definitely do look ahead. Um and I wanted to note Miss Bar um may I note that um your question about implementation in from a facility standpoint everything that we're requested the the list that I gave a that we gave Ashley and um Dr. Barnes facilities would intend to implement that between now and next year. It wouldn't be a two-year process.

024Um there's there like the things that we note are such urgent needs that come July with the approval of the budget we would roll right into getting the projects into the design phase and in the fall completing the design bidding in late fall early winter prepping for work to begin in the summer. So, our intent is to move on these projects and from a facility standpoint, we don't hold these funds. I I'd also like to add to I think to several of those points, a lot of a lot of the lists that we maintain, they get carried over year after year after year because of things that come up that were unexpected. Um, the the best example I can think of in my own personal experience is when I was the principal at New Hver

025High School, I initiated the conversation about a culinary culinary arts lab. Mr. Sutton still doesn't have that. I take I take full blame for that, by the way. Um, but but other things have surfaced in the interim um that have prevented that from becoming something that is completed, started and completed. And so I do think it's important to highlight that I I'm like you. I know the I don't know the binder, but I know the list. Um because as a building level administrator, my list was often the same year after year, only bigger. And then at some point I have to come through and I have to mark things off that are no longer a priority for it. And so I think that is also part of the reason we may not have something as

026formalized like you're discussing about with the timeline and specific cost because I feel like we're often working with a moving target and uh the more we can nail that down the better. May I ask a couple of clarifying questions? And I'm sorry I don't know your name. Leanne Lawrence. Nice to meet you. I'm Natalie English. So, I heard you talking about that process and said, you know, you you spend right away and yet some of those you probably can't start until the summer. So, that does roll into two years, I'm assuming. So, I don't I don't know that that answer works every time. That's a clarifying question. Well, that's an excellent point there. It depends on your definition of the year, right? And I I think that potentially could be a fundamental a miscommunication where

027we're speaking in different languages. So in the world of facility planning and construction um we look at it start a school to start a school, right? That really becomes my year. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. And so which rolls across two fiscal years, right? It does. which is that's a clarifying point I think the commissioners probably have not understood um as well as we need them to. Uh the other I have another question. Um when I look at the bottom there are um $3 million in available budget. Is that available budget that is is already planned to be spent or is it money that's been saved because y'all are so awesome which you are. that I think in some cases it's simply a matter of money that has been budgeted but has not been encumbered. Okay. Okay.

028Got it. But still needed for those projects. Yes. Okay. So until we find out it's not and then right it's you know placed somewhere else. Right. So, I would um uh as a as an add-on to what uh member Barnhart said, it's not only that 19 or did you say it anyway? Somebody said it's not only that $19 million need, it's also that six months or so ago suddenly we're saying we were saying we needed a school bond and people all over the community were asking why do we need that if there's money. So, I think we have to continue Dr. Barnes communicating a lot more transparently with the commissioners and with the public so they they don't have misinformation and we can get everything we need for our schools. Okay. I Yeah. Dr. Barnes,

029you want to go next? You want I I do. You okay, Jose? You going to jump in real quick to respond to that? I want to be clear that this is what transparency looks like. Okay. I promise you that we are not putting things on this list that we don't need. And I know that um I I can't speak to what happened before in the past or anything like that, but when I look five years down the line, you have to backwards map to where we are now. The facility needs that we have, there is a lot of repair to the current facilities we have and there are new facilities that we need to bring this county where it needs to go for the next hundred years of education. So while I know that there's

030a different answer between we can't afford all these things at one time and we all know that we can that's where the collaboration part comes in but it would be disingenuous for me to not say that this is what our kids need because this is what our kids need. Now what we can afford and what we can manage is a different answer but it wouldn't be transparent for me not to bring you the things that are genuinely needed. I will also tell you that this transparency has a double-edged sword to it, right? Because it does put us all in a situation where now we have to respond to why aren't you doing everything the school needs. The school knows that the school can't get everything the school needs. We get that, but we have to

031put it out there that these things are still there. I have kids tripping over ripped carpeting. I have kids who can't learn because the environment in the building isn't conducive because the HVAC system goes down. These are real things that are happening. So I think the conversation is how do we afford what we need? But I don't think the question is do we need it or not? Agree. Agree. When I when I say transparency, I totally agree. And um and while I haven't sat at this table in New Hverburg County before, I'm I'm talking even beyond the table, the board of education and the board of commissioners. We've got to figure out how we help the general public understand this as well. Correct. Yeah, I agree. Thank you. Um myself and Mr. Wor um had

032served on the capital committee for the last couple years. And so what our task was in that committee was to bring forth the recommendation for the board to then in turn bring to the county commissioners. So we do have a laundry list and if I remember correctly and Dr. Morgan can probably speak to this of $550 million if we were able to complete everything that we needed to do to our facilities is is where where the list is. Um but the realistic expectation of us serving on that committee was what are we going to bring forth the board? And so coming up with the top priorities to say let's be most responsive to where we're at. The other thing that I want to add is one of the things of that committee that we were

033really diligent at is to make sure we're on um a warranty schedule is like I like to say. And so I'm just going to put this out there. I put out there a couple times. It's roughly $500,000. And just to make sure that we have an assessment of our school system so we know when the roof repair and the HVAC system and the telecoms and everything that needs to be under warranty so that we have a routine maintenance schedule rather than a responsive to a this is happening right now we have to fix it. And so we are moving in that direction in addition to being responsive to the needs of proactively planning so it doesn't come up as a oh now this oh now that. Um, so I just I want to point that

034out as two things, but we do have that laundry list. I don't think it's as in like from what I remember, Dr. Morgan, I don't think as in detail as far as the when it's at bid to when we can complete it to the closeout date, which I think would be beneficial, but we do have the laundry list of the multi-year plan. And I think to your point, we do have um and in the budget requested for we do have that $500,000. Yes, that's what I I'm putting it out. We all know that number. Yeah. And I think that will help us move in that direction of putting some timelines on things. Um to be frank, I think that assessment is necessary for us to get a complete picture. Agreed. And I think one of

035the points that has been made over and over, but I'm not sure that anybody outside this room even grasp it is the difference between the school year and the calendar year. Yeah. And there's no way if something takes a year, it's not going to roll through two fiscal school fiscal funding years. It's just not it's it's impractical to think that. And I think sometimes that money that's left in that account that annoys you because got money in there, it's it is encumbered, but we got to get through the the school summer to finish those things. And then it's slow to pay and you know you you've rolled into another another fiscal year. So, it's still sitting there, but it's spent. Madam Chair, again, there's a a pretty basic tool that's used in construction and development,

036and you mentioned it before, a flowchart that absolutely the the issue you're bringing up of spanning two years or even three years is something that developers and builders, contractors deal with all the time. Okay. So developing a and there's oodles of examples you could pull down off the internet or talk to you can easily find a a flowchart that that's set up for construction that would work. That one simple adjustment would then give us all and I mean everybody at this table eyes and ears on this. So when we have this conversation we realize this is going to span two the fiscal years and sometimes three. In the case of New Hatter High School, the open fixes are going to be multi-year like that, but at least we have some kind of idea of the

037dollars. And I know there's a hesitancy to throw out a number like uh the $550 million there. It's like, oh Christ, we don't want to put that out in the public because it's going to raise too many alarms. That's where you you go to a 10-year CIP. It's a 10-year uh planning document is all that is. So that but at least alerts us so we don't don't have a you know a mental breakdown when we hear $550 million because we tend to related to what do we have available to us now right no it's over a 10-year period and and we can begin to plan on how to create the funding for that Rob I know you want to say something really bad I hear I hear everything you're saying and I agree I think

038the only thing I wanted to mention too is I believe we follow those flowcharts those become um those become drafted once we have a project that we know we're funding. I think it's difficult to have that in place if we don't know for sure we're funding a project because other things again become the priority. And so, you know, if we're going to put if we're going to put time, money, and effort into a project and we're going to create that timeline, I think we are in a better position to to know what those dates look like and to and to follow that flowchart. But I think if we're not sure we're going to be able to fund a project say next February, we're not to the point of putting those resources into that yet. And

039so it becomes it it does become sort of a checklist. I think to your point of if we have a 10-year CIP in place, we can become more specific with it once we get closer to starting that. Yes. To all of that. You can see how Yeah. Well, you let me just add to it, but you can see now we're getting to the root of when I look at the request of $18.9 million which the school board has brought forward in their capital. That's the 19 million we kick around and we drop it into the encumbered and non-encumbered $13 million that's there. Now to me, what I'd say is, "Oh, so now you've got an account with $32 million in it, but I have no idea how and when it's going to be spent, or

040and here's the critical part, do you have the capacity to spend it within the next year?" And that huge question mark there is what drives the conversation that's happening throughout the community and that we are having at the county and I hope that you're having here. Do you have the capacity? And uh I don't know, $32 million is a lot of money to keep off the streets. I know it's planned to go on the streets. I'm just talking in jargon there, but you know, to put it into facilities, but that may, you know, it may take you three years or four years to spend that $32 million down. And if that's the case, then let's spread it out. Dr. Barnes and that's that's well taken. Um when we met with Mr. Kudray the other week,

041one of the things we spoke about was that's totally fine. I don't need all my allowance at the same time as long as as commissioners you're okay with as we complete projects to come back and petition for more funds to do that. But that's hard for you guys to manage in a budget as well. So we're just trying to make it a little cleaner. We're perfectly fine to say we're going to do it in three million,$5 million installments, whatever you guys think is fine. As long as the the door is open and come back and say we fixed that 5 million, we're ready for our next installment. Was that sort of what we talked about, Ashley and Rob? So, we're perfectly fine. We're trying to be as flexible as possible. And we know that there

042is sticker shock to seeing all this at once, but this is a part of how you start the conversation. Can if I might real quick. I mean I I can I hear this. I think this is we've kind of got to the crux of issues. It's a money flow issue. It's a budget cycle that runs yearly, right? It's and it's thinking about money sitting there that has not been spent, but it's also the needs are there and and it needs to be encumbered and spent. I think to Dr. Barnes's point, we should probably maybe if we have the plan like we hope we have soon and we can talk about doing that the flow of it is okay now it's time to do this repair now it's time for that money to be spent. I

043think that might make it a little easier. I don't know what that looks like whether it becomes a budget amendment. Maybe Eric or Amanda can speak to that. I don't know. Um but I think that's I think we're talking about a money flow issue here and money just sitting somewhere waiting for it to be spent. I don't think there's going to ever a question of it being asked for and being given. I just think, you know, when you're trying to do a budget every year and you hear like 19 million, it just it's a shocking thing to hear even though we know the needs are there. So, if we can work that out, I would love to see that happen. I I don't want to speak for all the commission. Obviously, I'm here speaking for

044myself, but I've heard, you know, I've been on both sides of this kind of discussion. I know the great needs are there and I'm hoping that we figure out a way to for for the money to just flow a little bit better and get, you know, repairs get done what they what needs to be done. I I mean, I hate I hate to put it all on here for the finance people, but I know that you've got some really good ideas for that. Um, and I don't know how we do that going forward. I'd like to to know or have thoughts on. Let me jump in here. Let me see if I understand the issue. you have an objection to funding it and then it's sitting there even though it's encumbered. Is there any way

045for you to fund it? You can keep it in your account. We don't have to have it in our account, you know. Um but or then you give us a halfyear comeback and amend and ask for more, you know, but y'all don't work on a half year budget cycle and neither do we. So, is there a way to bridge this this with a solution so that you don't feel like you've spent it, but it's still sitting in the pig? So, what I would say, there's a couple things we're not touching on that need to be touched on when we're talking capital planning. We the high level taxpayers are going to see 13 million sitting in account. They're going to see a 19 million request. and hear that there is a bond referendum that may potentially

046increase their tax rate all within the span of 6 months. We talked about that now. So that's the one part that is very shocking. So it's not that I don't think anyone's opposed to the 19 million. I don't think anyone is opposed to the need is there. I think it is the optics of spending because we have capital projects that we don't get done in one year. Capital projects are meant to roll. That is the nature of those funds. So I think it is acceptable and doable to sort of have it peace meal that okay here's the 19 million ask and that's what my team and I did. Took the 19 million asked and u placed it out over three years so that we at least knew these are the projects. This is what's needed.

047Here it is. And it's also at a pace that is doable and probably palatable when we're talking about a future bond referendum. I think if we have the sorry $550 million ask putting that into a 20-year plan, a 10-year plan, and then that plan has to get updated every year. We do the same thing. We probably at the county have hundreds of millions of needs that, you know, kind of like the culinary, we have a request that just keeps getting pushed back into year six of our five-year plan, but it's something we'd like to do, but it's not something that, you know, is needed when we have roofs that are caving in or anything. I don't want to make the county sound dire like that, but we have those needs that come up too that

048is doing it. So, I think it has to be if that $500,000 is that study, it has to be, okay, tell me when each of my roofs are going to fail. So, I know in 2028, this elementary is failing. This elementary, this high school, we put it on the plan. Oh gosh, we just had a big storm. We had that in 2028. We now need to move that to 2027. This one can now move back. But, it's like a constant evolving. I don't know what that game is that you like are moving the pieces each time. Jenga. No, it's like Tetris, but it's like the wood one where you're constantly moving trying to get the red one out. Yeah. Different game, same concept. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't know what that's called. But like

049a capital plan is literally that's the game is we constantly have to do that. So I think we also just have I think the education part is important because just taxpayer I see 13 million. and I hear 19 million and now I got a bond referendum. I'm thinking what are we doing guys? But we know it's needed. We know it's something we're going to have to do. So to make sure we get the education out there, we do explain that yes, this is a sticker shock, but it's the reality of capital and the way it works because a lot of um residents kind of conflate capital and operating that they think it's the same. it's a one-year thing and it's it's not. So, the education part, but to really have that full 20-year plan that

050we can then break down, okay, this is our five. This is what we publish to the public, but we know back here, this is also going on and every year we can change it up because it is it's a plan. It's it's going to change. Ours changes every year. I don't think you can go between budget books and match our capital plan each time because everything changes and moves. So long-winded way to say that yes, I think you know having the ask and breaking it up is doable. It would be a budget amendment. Um capital tends to be one-time money. So if we have onetime money and unrestricted fund balance, anything like that, that's typically where we would recommend from it since it's not part of the budget. Um but it would just we'd have

051to make sure it falls within the fiscal responsibilities and all of our guidelines and everything. Um but that's just sort of different viewpoints to give that there's a lot on the horizon and we have to make sure we're thinking not just the need today but the horizon. I think what you're talking about really is what should have been done 50 years ago. Yeah. Because I think for as many people that say that's a lot of money, there are people out there saying that's money that is late being spent already. that I know that there has been the said about New Hover High School that now all of a sudden it costs more to fix it when it's broken than it would have cost to repair it when it first started. So I think that that's

052a double sword, but we certainly then that's what that ask is is to develop that long-term strategic thinking for you folks and for us. And what I'm thinking is we if I remember correctly, we've got about the 17th of June for your budget. Is that right? Is that the Is that the drop the hammer day? We recommend the budget. Probably not. I think we're uh looking at the first meeting in June to have our public hearing and quite possibly be uh followed up immediately, meaning that same meeting with a vote on the budget. We have technically until June 30th. Um, so there could always be a special meeting called or if it doesn't pass in the first meeting in June, you would push to the second meeting in June, which I believe is the 17th,

053which is what you just referred to. I know that sounds complicated, but we're trying to get the budget passed as quickly as possible. Yeah. So, what I was was thinking was maybe we could I don't know it would mean we'd have another meeting of this body at the end of the month, but before your meeting to where we could bring this year's capital request with the information you need to make up your mind about it. I I Eric, have we shared uh our thoughts or Amanda with the school board at this point? Okay. You you kind of see that. So there can be certainly be internal conversations. I I think large budgets or you know ideas like this you know the window to make changes is rapidly closing. Yes. And uh on our end we're

054trying to come together for the united thought as okay here's our budget. We're we're really close to that now. So, if there are going to be dramatic uh changes in the request, I suggest, you know, in an hour you bring them forward to Eric or Amanda or me or Stephanie. And uh Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't suggesting there would be dramatic changes. It was more of the explanations for the answers that you that you don't feel you have yet. Well, I I I think that it kind of got answered in our response as to what we've put in the budget already. And if there's major push back in that, that's what I'm saying is, you know, oh gosh, you know, the 5.28 million dollars, that's what we're suggesting with, uh, the, you know, capital plus

055the lottery money coming in. Gary, did I get that right? 5.28. Uh, you know, that we can't live with that. Tell us what you can't live with there. concept being also spreading that capital request over multi-year, three years, Eric, is that right? Yeah, three years to get to that $18.9 million recognizing and frankly I'll, you know, pull back the curtain here. Some of the push back that I had was, well, that just covers this year's request, the 19 million. What happens in those intervening years? Mhm. And the unanimous response I got from our staff was, "Well, we'll factor that in as they come forward." At the bottom of this conversation, there is a there's a trust issue that seems to dog every statement and I keep going back to show me where the county has

056never been there for our children and for this organization. I don't think you can ever point to that. If it is, I'm not aware there. I know there's some nipping around the edges, but on the major issues, we are there. Uh, and you know, we may have to reconfigure it, spread it out, etc. With that being said, if there are major changes to what you know, we already are putting in the budget, please bring them forward pronto and all ears. That's why you have two county commissioners here. There might be five here if we were allowed to do it. Um, you have our attention. But also much as this room is universes the schools, we actually have a bunch of other things that are out there that are pulling on us uh and you know

057needing money and attention as well. So I just bring that up that that that's an obvious. Yeah. and and we're this is a the whole budget this whole budget process this year was designed to restore confidence and trust. I'm fine with you saying Barnes, this is what we can afford right now. As long as you understand and my wife says I do best with small doses, that's fine. You will see me again. You will see us again because the needs won't stop. If you leave the door open to come back and say we finished, here's the receipts ready for another round. And you folks are comfortable with that. I think we can live there fine. that that helps establish that trust. That helps establish that transparency. Fine with that. But I just don't want to

058that whole thing about trust being an issue. Yeah. Trust can't be an issue because we're going to be clear. We're going to be deliberate. We're going to be very very transparent. These needs won't go away. So just know that. And I understand what you're saying that I'm not we're not the only people who need things. But they're children, right? Yeah. Hard not to look at them first. But I think that's what this job is. That's what this job is is advocate. So we want to be partners. We don't want this to be a hostile relationship ever again. So if you're telling us I just want to make sure there's a distinction between what we need and what we can afford. Those are two different things. But I think that's logical. That's what life is. We

059have that issue in our own personal lives. So, we can work with that. We just want to work collaboratively as long as the doors open. I think that's what we're looking for. And I don't want to speak for the board, but I think that's what we're and and speaking as one member of the board. I do have like a, you know, if we came at you half year and asked for a budget amendment, you know, would all five of you vote the same way? So, there's that that fear that we're going to have to overcome. But let's take the first step. And because you're right, you've never said no. I mean, you've never left us high and dry. So, you know, but but I I would be remiss if I didn't say it's scary to

060have to ask you for budget money twice in the same year. It is. So, with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. will and I just want to you know I've been on capital since I started on board many years ago and I'm a little concerned conversation because we're I think we're starting to sneak the slope into the you know we we're either going to be reactive or proactive and I'd much rather be proactive you know H what a what a perfect example of that you know put a little bit towards it each year or wait and have a huge deficit like we have now and I'm just a little concerned that we're going to get in the situation where you know number Seven is something we really really got to do, but we don't

061have the money for it right now. So, I mean, that's I mean, I don't think we're coming to to you guys with the hey, we need everything. We all are wants, needs, and everything. Yeah. We're rather needs. These, you know, most of these are are qualities are needs. They're not wants or, you know, I mean, you know, what example we had just a minute ago from, you know, at New Hover. I mean, that's that's not even I'll be honest, I don't think that's a a a need. That should be a want. I think that's a need, you know, for the kids there. They need that that lab, that uh that culinary lab, but it's been put off and put off because we don't have the money. So, um you know, and and I'll be honest,

062I 112 years ago, I taught it at TRA and uh you know, some of the problems that trash had not pretty close to pretty close to it. But recently, you look at things like that, you know, trying to get in and out of trash in lanes right now. I mean, that's been a problem since since I did teach there, you know, and it has, you know, but it's been one of those we'll try to work on it. We'll do a little bit here. We'll put a band-aid on here to try to, you know, some so yeah, at some point we need to come up and say, "Hey, how can we help you? Let's get it done. Let's get it done right so we don't have to, you know, I mean, this this plan's a great

063idea to try to look at it and have it spaced out and so we can say this we could do later. This we really really need to do now." But you know I think we are saying a lot of these things really well if I may Mr. will divor piggyback on that. If you look at our capital requests for this year, for example, anything that's related to roofing, we have it placed on that list because we we have actually for our roofing, I'll brag about our roofing, we have a team that does annual evaluation. So, we have a five, eightyear plan, you know, one year, two year all the way out of the high priority roofing needs and it's based on warranty needs, etc. for us. So, it's very comprehensive. But some of the requests

064that we've placed on there, we know that if we can capture the funding for that and do the do the work, we will save ourselves the paying double in the future. So, some it all of those on the list are we need it now kind of things. And it and um and roofing is a good example where we have strategically placed those specific roofing projects on there because we don't want to have to pay double in a couple of years because we have we have an opportunity for example to recover a roof versus re- roofing it, right? Um and you save a lot of money. So that's one example of how important these items are where we are being proactive instead of reactive. But if it gets pushed too far, then we go into reactive

065mode and then the next time we bring the budget that that recover project will be double the amount that it is. Um, go ahead, Amanda. I I think all that is true. I think just to set reality as well. I'm sorry, [Laughter] but we could cover we have in the budget that we are going to recommend 13 million. We're not covering things that the state should be covering a lot more money to go to facilities and capital. So I think yes that is very much reality. The more we put it off the more expensive it gets. But are we willing to start having conversations that maybe SRO funding at $5 million gets transferred to capital? Are we willing to have the conversations that people are going to support a higher tax rate to support more

066facility funding for schools? No. I I I think all of this is true, but I think we have to be grounded in reality that the county is picking up a lot more than the statutoily requirement, which makes it hard because it's going to be easier to put a teacher in a classroom. We're going to feel better about it. We're going that's what we want to make sure our kids are supported. And that tends to take away from facilities. We we tend to see that in the county, too. We'll want to make sure that we have the people and the customer support a lot more than we'll want to make sure we're purchasing cars. And you know that we support that model because we're going to Raleigh. We're addressing these things. In fact, our entire endowment

067request that we also requested you folks was to provide evidence to prove that the aotment formulas are not in the right space. Yeah. And we're going to talk about that in just a second. But two points. You know, Dr. Barnes who said, you know, if we could get eight kids back would fund a teacher. So, if you're at New Hover, you know, we have lottery system and we're going to have some complaints about the lottery system because kids want to go to a different school than they're they're assigned to. You know, we you know, are you going to choose New Hover, which you're you're distracted for. They don't have the culinary lab, you know. No, you're going to want to get into Laney or I don't I I don't know who else has them, but

068it's a vicious like we're the hamster on the little wheel. It's just a v vicious cycle and we've got to got to somehow we got to get ahead because we we know we need to attract students back. Um and they can't be sitting in a classroom where the air conditioner doesn't work to get them back. And so it Mr. Wabbor said, you know, the the proactive versus reactive is a really big part of it. And that's why of this group, um, Rob, Dr. Morgan went, um, Jared went, Hannah went, Kim went, Pete went, um, I went, we took nine students. Um, and we took Oh, yes. And Natalie, sorry. And John Hennitt. And we took um a woman who was drafted to drive the school bus that we rode in all the way to Raleigh

069like nine hours. Um someone didn't enjoy their bus experience. I enjoyed everybody with me. It it it was, you know, it was it was a really slow thing to get there. But when the students sat and said, you know, the funding formula needs to be changed. It it it counts, but we didn't actually move the ball. They actually talked a little bit about the calendar. But when you put students in front of legislators, it was a hugely awesome day. The kids learned so much. We learned so much from being with the kids and it opened doors. We took the children, we took them onto the floor of the House of Representatives. We took them on the floor of the Senate. We took them into um I think six or eight or nine different congression uh

070uh legislative offices and they met face to face and they were at the table. We were against the back wall and they spoke to the senator, they spoke to the representative. So we're but it's a slow, you know, it's a slow train. It really is. But we intend to do that again. I'd like to make it an annual trip. Um and and our timing was just absolutely perfect. So we we're again, we've got to get that hamster wheel moving faster than it is right now. So if we can trust you for a budget amendment, yeah, may maybe that that's what we do, you know, but we have to all be on the same page. So with the time that we've got left, we've got a couple more things to cover. Do we have any more

071questions for Dr. Morgan on this that we've just been doing? Yes. Oh, sorry. I forgot you. You did have a question. I know just like one comment um from the takeaway of this conversation I have it sounds like to have the laundry list out so everybody's is acknowledgeable of the 550 million will be helpful and then um we have categorized and just being I say we capital committee um because this is now we're merged into one but the priority one two and three kind of prioritizes those needs and capital has kind of took it I I look at my colleague over here because it was him and I to bring forth the board just the top priority priorities to the board and that's what we considered to bring to our um partners at the county

072commissioner. So I feel like moving forward if that whole list was shown and seen and then to show you guys how far down we'd be able to go down the list with whatever asked that we are able to bring to you or receive you can see in addition to adding this kind of timeline to the priorities I'm I'm talking to Dr. Martin here, but like pri priorities one, two, and three of to see that of here's the start and completion fiscal year. Let's say that let's have that delineation of what it looks like. So that it's it's a it's a long-term picture without all the detail for every single project because 550 million that would be a lot of work when we know we're not getting to that. but prioritizing the one, two, and three

073priority so you guys could see the turnaround time of when it would hit being allocated and how fast we'd be able to spend it. And my last thing before I move on is I I'm going to put my colleague, Mr. sutton um up for for bids. But I would I invite you to come and see just the awesome progress that we've been able to do at New Handover and just relish in that with us because it's an awesome thing that's happened and it's with your support and with your commitment. So I would invite I would be happy to join you if we can, but come out there and see just the work that's been going on and just the impact it's going to have for these kids. So thank you for progressing. There's going to

074be a lot of change here in the next month. Uh they've kind of talked about that. Um and so you'll you'll see some big differences on the outside. That scalping I know just looks tough out there, but uh it's happening. It's looking good on the inside and the outside. Doing a lot of good work. Thank you. I look forward to this celebration when it's finished. All right. So, we're going to move on to the endowment request. And I believe Ashley's gonna do that with us. And we have a handout, don't we? I think next is the Did I skip something? Yeah. The billing program. Ah, yes. I don't think you want to skip through that. And Dr. Morgan is going to help out with that, too. This this is a list. Um, if you've been

075on if you were on the committee in February, um, this is familiar. This is a list that we've shared before. I think we've shared with the county commissioners several several times this list. Um it's not in any type of priority order. It's just some the items that have been identified a year or maybe even longer than that ago. And I'm turn it over to you, Dr. Yeah, I would say anybody who's who is working with the county for any length of time will recognize some things that have been on much longer. So, um, but to Amanda's point earlier, actually, I was thinking about the the idea of, you know, you gota you're constantly Thank you. You're constantly sort of re-evaluating things. Um, I I liken this list and some of the other ones to like

076I40. I grew up in Greensboro and at some point in my life, I realized there is never a time in my life where I40 doesn't have construction. Mhm. And I think that is a great analogy. So I'm going to coin that analogy. Um but I I think a lot of the things you'll see on here as as Miss Sutton said, they're not in any particular ranking order. Um this my understanding is this was presented back in February of this year. And so some of the dollar amounts are likely um older than February and not necessarily current, but hopefully they're not extremely far off. But I think the idea was just to present sort of to the to the idea of the running list of things that we would like to see. Some of these things

077have been on here since um you know since uh I think it was two 2021 uh facility needs assessment for the county. Um and I know some of them are even older. I I look at River Lights because I know I can remember being in meet in principal meeting talking about River Lights back in 2015. Um, and so it's just I think that's the nature of the beast. And but you know, I think to the points that were made here today, too. I I will sort of echo Dr. Barnes's comment. Um, I'll be really honest. If if I present something to somebody and they say, "Well, can you give us more in this area? Can you give us more dates? Can you We can do any of that. We'll keep working to make it better.

078We'll keep working to improve in that process um along the way. So for what it's worth to that end this was the second part of the conversation that we had discussed prior to today. One was the status of current capital projects and the other was looking at you know what would the priority recommended priorities be if we were moving forward with building building projects for the bond project take your pick. It's the last page of that projects to consider. You've got the I have a question. The text and then you have the list of that infamous 581 million. Madam chair. Yes, ma'am. Um so um I see and I have seen since February Isaac Bear early college building on this list. Have we just given up that the general assembly is no longer funding early

079college facilities on university campuses? Yeah, it's a very complicated question. I think and originally when I was on the board, Hugh and I were on the uh ad hoc committee and that was done away with which I was kind of upset about because I don't think the conversation's over. You know, there there is an agreement and I don't know when it runs out. Maybe actually you're somebody here will know. We got the appropriations for the plans. You know, um the plans were made. They're beautiful. I we got to look at them. The UNCW has said here we have a space for the building, but it's just kind of stalled out. And we know that those trailers are about done. I mean, unless you want to plop some new trailers out there, which I disagree. I

080don't think we should. We have to figure this out because to your point, it's almost like, okay, MCW will give you a space. Who builds it? Who pays for it? Is it the state? Is it the county? And we have to work that out. Well, the state has paid for every early college and every other university campus that has one. I I don't think we should have it on our local funding list. just I think that to together the community just needs to convince the general assembly to treat UNCC Wilmington just like they have and therefore Union County schools just like they have every other university early college. I think there's a willingness to do it. Like I said before Dr. um Swani came he had a conversation with Dr. Sardelli he was like oh

081I know where we can put it. So, I don't think that that's the that's the question, but reading theou and I'd love to a print out of that because there was a timeline on here, this is when it expires. And I don't know if that is expired yet or not or you don't think so. It's not. I don't remember the date. We looked at it. Do you remember the date? I don't remember the date. I I want to say it's 2027, but that could be wrong. June of 2027, but we can definitely get a copy of theou and share with the committee. I would love to share with Natalie if you want to or anybody that wants to look at the um plans for that building and where it is and where it's situated and

082how accessible it will be. I would love to for more people to know about it because like you say the plans were appropriated in the state budget to have them done and nothing else has been done yet. But it needs linking each with each other and having the conversation. And I love what you just said because everybody's like, "Well, who pays for it next?" You know what I mean? and it's almost like it just sits out there and ether and nobody does anything. So, hey, let's work on that together. Let's put that on the agenda for the next meeting and then maybe we end up with a little ad hoc that that goes after that issue at the state. I'd love for Miss Walker to join and maybe we can bring all the parties together

083and have that conversation. I mean, it's a be it's a wonderful school. I think New York County School should be very very proud of that program and highlight it. It's it's a very worthy program and and very successful and I think it needs attention for Dr. Mr. Valion needs well and and I didn't know um Commissioner Walker that that Isaac Bears should be on the state's list of funding. So let's let's put that on the agenda and let's let's flush that out. Give it some time and maybe we end up with an ad hoc that goes after that change. Yeah, definitely get the ad hoc back together. And I will say I think one of the reasons that we've left it on there as well is because I think this discussion is important. Um and

084there are some there's some other more granular parts of that discussion. For example, I don't DPI says we can't build on ground that we don't have a deed to free and clear. Who owns the building? So then schools rent it like Yes. So then the question part of the question is okay well does UNCCW are they willing to build it if they have the money for it or they they want a piece of it and how will they want to manage it correct because right now the way the the the trailers out there are I think the schools are responsible for the inside and everything outside is correct so it is complicated but it's not something you can't correct you can't ignore it any longer trailers are done yeah they've been in there for almost

08520 years in those trailers father, you so I was just going to say if there's any other does anyone have any other questions about what you've been presented? I'm happy to try and answer those and if not Yeah. Um Mr. Morgan, um I was looking at some of these numbers uh for the especially the new schools, the elementary school replacements. What year was this these numbers put together? because the striking is very low. Uh from what you know from what I heard and granted numbers, you know, just looking at other areas that have put together new elementary schools and intermediate schools, but you know, $43 million, a lot of money, but you know, the numbers I'm hearing are 80 to 100. I don't know. I can't tell you honestly that I don't know that they're

086that high. I can't tell you what they would be. I don't I don't know when these numbers were pulled, I know it was probably before the February meeting. Um, but because this had been presented so recently. Um, we didn't we didn't honestly we didn't go back to try and update anything in terms of this chart because it was three months ago. Um, I can't tell. Miss Lawrence, you got you look like you have some knowledge to share. Okay. No, thank you. You're welcome. Um, so those are relatively recent numbers within the past year. We work closely with the contractors that do work with us and they are gracious enough to provide information about the um cost of construction statewide. And so we use those numbers and use those numbers to generate the cost for the

087estimate for the new elementary schools. So we feel that those are accurate numbers and they were even c sort of estimated during a real peak in material and labor costs which have leveled out somewhat. So um so within the past couple of years that we've generated those numbers and we think that they um are still holding in today's market. You know these are uh without uh property obviously the land costs are not built into this. Correct. Correct. And do they include the FFN, you know, the furnish? Yes, they do. They do. Yes, they do. Oh, that that's great news. I would hold my breath to see if we could pull a new brand new elementary school for 500 students at 43 million if we can. Yahoo. That's and talking with our teams, those numbers are

088they're seeing those same numbers in Brunswick County and the Charlotte Mack area. So, not only the contractors that we work with, but the architects that we work with, we kind of keep our finger on the pulse of what they're seeing statewide. And there has been a little bit of a leveling out in now, now I want to put a gigantic asterisk on that called tariffs. Tariffs uh we don't know, you know, nobody has a crystal ball, but right now those numbers are holding. Well, thank you. Wow, Amanda. Also, I don't know. Thanks. Um, so one thing if um, this is like future way in advance, but as we start to message this, I would just be careful of constantly saying like a new elementary school to be built to replace the current school, we're going

089to need to really define with residents what is new and increasing our capacity and what is a replacement. just because it when you just look at this you see a new 650 student elementary a new 650 so does that mean we're going up by300 got capacity or so I think just making sure we really just differentiate between new and replacement so that people understand oh okay one's coming off one to come on or something new I think it's a very good point good point and I I'll also say I would be remiss to say like I have had anecdotally And I don't know if this is true. People say that we have some schools in our district that are underutilized. Some threw out the name alderman alderman that you know doesn't it's not quite filled

090with capacity and some of our and I don't like I hate to bring up the word redistricting. I don't want to do that. I don't think it's that it solves every every problem that we have. But like when people come and tell you oh we have some schools that aren't full that don't have all you know aren't full. I don't have an answer to that. And I think to that other point, a school like River Lights, I know that there are certain areas of the county that are growing a lot faster. Porter's Neck, they got what, four trailers now. Um, hopefully it has the other two. Uh, and River Lights as well. That whole area is like a new town. You know, that is a new school. And I I cannot remember if we talked

091about that replacing one of our older schools or not. Do we all know the answer to that? I don't know what the closest school is to that. I think I think it was a combination of things in the discussion. My understanding originally either it or Williams, Leanne, correct me if I'm wrong, one of the two was going to be a K2, the other was going to be renovated as a 35 to help alleviate the the capac the overcrowding at some of the other elementary schools in the center of the county. That was Williams, you said. Yes. Yes. It says River Lights, right? River like a new 650 student elementary and Williams are going to need 650 to your point like is are they they're leveling each other out. Are they both going to have 650

092students in it or I mean that that makes a good point and I don't know if if there's an appetite on this board to do a little bit of mini redist because we know like I said Porter's neck is crammed full and it's it and they have not finished developing up there. I'm sure of it. um that whole northern part of the county is getting ready to get developed eventually and um that's a question too. So I almost feel like we should really evaluate that part of it and I haven't even brought up the bond discussion because what gets funded what is the highest like the top four on here River Lights Pine Valley like when I got on the score River Lights, Pine Valley, and Williams those three were I've seen planned for I

093feel like that that was a there was a motion to do that like movement to do those and they just never did it kind of went away. It kind of just went away. It was co. Well, yeah, that was co and then they're not they're not gone completely. No, no, I don't mean they disappeared, but like I just feel like it's it's this I say that word a lot. This is out there still, but we have to really have a realistic look at our current school, what the enrollment is and where it's growing and where maybe we need to adjust some things. Um, just throwing that out there. I know it's not really a fun thing to talk about, but we are talking about building new things as well. And I've been I've had conversations

094in a weird way about the birth rate getting lower. I'm thinking to myself, people are still moving here. I don't I don't I don't understand the whole math thing. I mean, I'm not a mass genius. So, maybe that's part of it. But, you know, I always say every budget, what are the needs? What are the needs and where are the needs? So, maybe Dr. Horn. Sure. Sure. So, a couple of things. One, there has been a bubble of students that have been sort of traversing through New H County schools through the high school. Last several years, we have graduated around 2,000. Don't hold me that number, but that's in the ballpark. We graduate 2,000 kids and we bring in 17 to,800 in kindergarten. So, what you have is a constant low-level bleeding of our overall

095population. Now, there are two groups of students, and this has been a conversation I've had with the board and of course with our senior staff about how do we stop that trickle every year and there's a couple of things that are specific in that. One is there's a group of parents that we never get kids who don't enroll in kindergarten have other choices and go on their way. There's also a a a specific thing that happens in middle school. Middle school is a challenging time for everyone including parents having feel bad. I'll let you have that one. But my point is is that those two trickles are where we really see a lot of that. Part of our responsibility as a school system and what we've talked about is how do we how are we

096being good stewards of the money that we are given. I will tell you that one way to do that is to begin to make inroads to bringing students back to the best option in the city which is public schools because I also have an onus and responsibility to the county commission to the county to say we're doing the right things with the money that you're giving us. We can't just come with our handout and say we need this, we need this if we're not also actively working to bring kids to our school system. I have to reflect back on something that Miss Bradford said about how it's a lot easier to get him back when we put him in a classroom with air conditioning. Be that as it may. How do we I don't want

097to say repair our image, but how do we promote the amazing things that happen every day? Because that's what brings parents back. That's what brings students back. So, we're not just looking for funding from you. We're also looking at how do we begin to eat into those 7,000 kids who live in the city in the in the new Henry County limits that don't go to school with us. Where are they? How do we get them back? So, in regards to converting and building things like this, there's has to be a conversation about how do we maximize the money that we're doing that is reviewing of different programs, reviewing the sizes of buildings, things like that. Now you do have pockets of places where where enrollment is different than others. You have the northern end of

098the county which is exploding in in growth. You also have things down on the south side with like Bellamy and Anderson. Okay. New H uh sorry I was looking at Philip um Lanny High School. There is a crowding issue there. We can't do all these things at once. But I think whenever you see us build a new building you're going to see two things. One, they're going to be preschool compatible because that's going to increase our flexibility. And two, we're going to build them for size. We're going to build them for the kids we're going to get in 10 years, not the ones we have right now. Because you do know, we opened Porter's Neck and we're full, right? So, how do we build for that expansion? I will tell you that one of the

099ways that you draw people back to the county schools is things like this. So, does that answer your question? I don't know if I did or not. Did you just say 7,000 students don't go to the school district? Ashley, is that number correct? If you break it across private charter homeschooling, right? So that Okay. Well, that that's good. That's crazy to me. 7,000 on top of the students. What like 24 and a half thousand that the public schools serve? We serve just over 25. Just over 25. Okay. Yeah. Including prek. Look at all these different numbers. Like I feel like I get different numbers all includes prek. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, I think we looked at we had a budget meeting, gosh, a couple weeks ago, and I swear as someone said,

100there were 2,000 more students. Does anybody remember that? It was like 26,000 like that's charter schools. That 2,000 number is our charter schools. Well, Dr. Bar, because they passed through, we passed through the money to them. What was told to me was this is all the other students and I thought it included private as well. I would love to get a really good take on 7,000 because that blows my mind and there's 7,000 more speeches out there and I think we gave that data out here but I'll make sure you get a copy of it as well. But you also have to look at guys if you add up all the homeschool Yes. and people taking school online I think that virtual school last time I checked was the third largest district. If you put

101all the kids who go to virtual public schools outside the county into one group, it's the third largest district in the state. You have a lot of kids and quite frankly who left during CO and just never came back. Well, and that that and that is another follow-up question to what I've been hearing is that the birth rate's going down and we're it's almost like you can't plan for everything. You know, I want to use a garden metaphor because usually when I plant a tree, I'm thinking about it 10 years from now, right? When I see the growth in our area, I feel like it's not just going to be retirees. I feel like, you know, when you talk about growing workforce here, like we have that would help with the housing cost, you know,

102the housing problem that we have as well. We can grow people and get jobs here. But like I feel like we're going to keep growing and I feel like families will be part of that solution, you know, part of that equation. I mean, and I don't know. I keep hearing about the birth rate thing and I just it doesn't make sense to me. And to your point, we got to bring them back in, but we also have to have place to put them. They have to be in places that they want to be and they that has to be a good option. I know which brings us back to this, you know, I mean, okay, but I think that there are most districts in the state have either slowed down their enrollment or are decreasing

103enrollment. And that that's not a new Hannover County specific issue. That is a statewide issue. It's not just statewide. It is a fact that the birth rate is going down in the United States. It's a fact. You demographers. It's not a mathematician issue, Commissioner. It is it's a demographer issue. So I'm not a demographer, but I've read that our birth rate's going down. And it's not the idea that we attract families will help our housing. It won't. It won't. what we what and so a lot of those families with children will continue to choose the counties around us specifically Brunswick and Pender and so they're not coming to New Hmer County schools right because housing is less expensive outside for for workforce age people with young children so there is an impact and we do

104have to pay attention to it it's a hard one to guess from my perspective but missing Katabi can guess it all day long because he's in those numbers so um yeah And just to speak to the schools that are on the list. So Pine Valley has the same structure as what Blair had. And Blair has already been a new structure has happened. The funding just hasn't come to replace that other school that had the same floor model. And then Williams has the same floor model as the old College Park, which has been replaced. So that's two of our southern schools haven't been rebuilt that two of our northern ones have that had the similar age and floor plan and maybe some facility needs and then River Light speaks to you know the construction and everything

105in that area and we've already spoken to the needs of Isaac Bear certainly and then our friends over at Tras um such a crowded area over there in the Laney area, right? And um and then we The beauty of that building is is that it was recently renovated 5 years ago. Um so thankfully I don't have a lot of the facility issues other places have. That building is beautiful. They did a fantastic job. Um but yes, the the crowding, but uh we do it. We make it. And then and then our friends at New Hover. So that's sort of a little history on why those schools are on there for those who might not been around for a while. And it is a beautiful though I want to go back to the TRA decision because

106the you read the description it talks about potentially making it the ninth grade center for lane which may help with the traffic issues. I think it could I I will also add that there have been lots of lots of meetings with the department of transportation. This hasn't been a you know talked about and not um dedicated. There have been for the last three years with Mr. Little. We have and with prior to that with Miss Ducharm, we have been meeting with the county and the department of transportation. So there have been a lot of improvements from the department of transportation and univer county schools. There have been a lot of improvements to help and fix that. I understand it's still very overcrowded. Um, but I do believe that the band-aids that were referenced earlier that

107were put in there have helped a lot with it. I mean, the kids are that the parking lot is empty by 4:00, which you're talking 3,000 people on one campus. I understand there's kids who leave, but it is empty by four o'clock every day. So, well, I didn't mean to just highlight the the traffic issue. I was a parent of two that went to Laney and try I mean it was it was a nightmare. I'm just going to go ahead and say it. But the whole idea that the growth is going to happen. So I mean Laney being overcrowded that was supposed to be a solution for that and potentially build another middle school. Um maybe we call it TRAP. I'm not sure. But that's that's I don't know if that's a discussion for the

108bond. I mean the bond discussion has to happen soon and I don't it does and we wanted to hit that a little bit and we're we're pretty much on our time. So, I would be very interested in the motion if everyone could extend for 15 more minutes. I'm very mindful of your your schedules today. Um, is that is that acceptable? Yeah. I mean, I'll motion to extend for 15 minutes. Yeah, I'll second. Okay. So, all in favor say I. I. I. All right. Let's um we're let's come to that. But we have two other really important things on our agenda. So, the next one is just a discussion of the endowment request that we have in We have two friends here with us today that's going to help us. Um Julie and Robin if you

109would like to come up. Um maybe yeah Leanne you can share Leanne's seat and where she was sitting and the seat next to her just so you have a mic. Um so what we've provided to the committee is just a copy of what was also provided to the endowment just forformational purposes. Um, of course, we completed a letter of interest, um, which is, you know, just basic information about New Hmer County Schools, but we also attach this PowerPoint presentation, um, that talks about or shares with the endowment um, you know, what our plan is for that funding if it is received. And this is talking about the 42 school specialist positions that we've talked about before um with this committee. And so um Dr. Barnes, I don't know if you want to start with the

110formulas, but um with the presentation, if we can bring that up um the first slide is to address why are we um why are we making this request to the endowment? Um and you know the reason behind it is because the state funding isn't um providing all of the support service positions that we need. And Dr. Barnes, I'll let you add whatever you'd like to. I don't need to burden this poor group again with uh my feelings about the aotment formulas. Just to let you know that we every single school has lost support as we have gone through the years. The cost of insurance, the cost of benefits, the cost of retirement, these things add up. We cannot continue to put the burden of numerous different jobs on teachers if we're also going to hold

111them accountable for instruction. So that being said, if you want to go through this again, I'll talk about this anytime you want. So just come find me and I will go through it again. Um the next slide is just um sharing with you guys the different areas and I believe we've talked about this as well but just to bring back to the group um you know the the plan was to be able to provide one um specialist per school um in the targeted area where the the principal and um their um school improvement team decides you know these are the critical areas at our school. this is where we see we need the most extra support and and let the principles make that decision because they know the needs of their their kids and each

112school's going to be different and so they'll be able to look at the area of academic remediation, academic extension, behavioral support, graduation rate and exceptional children's program as well. Um, and as you may remember, these were the areas that came out through the budget process. Um, through the budget listening tour, the highlights, um, these were areas where the, um, employees community felt we were understaffed and that the teachers really needed that additional support. And so, if you'll go to the next slide and I'm going to turn it over to Julie, if that's okay to talk through this process. Yes. So we decided to um incorporate a consistent approach, a problem solving approach that we are using in the district now. Um we're piloting it this year and we are hoping to move um full steam

113ahead with safe and civil schools work in the next school year. And part of that work is their evidence-based problem solving model for instructional um solutions. And part of that is grounded in positive school climate and culture leads to increased school connectedness which leads to high academic achievement. And we wanted to make sure that we use that evidence-based model to approach the the solution the future focused solution for this work. Let me keep going. Yes. Okay. And so um yes, next slide. Yes. Um the school specialist priority positions at each school. Of course, schools would decide that based on their own school data. We don't need to make a district level decision because each school is going to operate differently and they're identifying their school improvement um targets and focus areas differently. So, how to

114solve it? The problem solving model or framework is stoic. So, you structure, you teach, you um observe, uh you interact and then you correct fluently and positively. So that would help us develop that scope of work. And of course like Dr. Barnes said and I think um it's been reiterated multiple times and Ashley's reiterated this. This is to allow us to collect very specific data to report back to state decision makers on the creation of and the updating of the aotment formula. And when we create a specific problem solving model from an evidence-based uh framework, we're able to utilize our partners at UNCC Wilmington to evaluate to create an evaluation design and to manage the progress monitoring of this evaluation so that then we have something provided to us that can um inform state decisions.

115the um I think I already said that the stoic it um problem solving framework uh moose oh do I need I need to say next slide Robin's doing that for me next slide so this is a reiteration um this is all about facilitating change because we are work in the um human business and we are looking at changing the level of engagement among our students um which means that we address how we as the adults operate operate within the building. So therefore, Stoic is our model that we want to use the um I didn't realize I was presenting, but I'm happy to be here. We're so glad you're here. Walking paper. You got this. Um so we have created a over the next five slides you don't have to click through them yet but over

116the next five slides we have created the stoic framework for each of those five areas that we um want to provide to schools for their specific to address their specific needs based on their school improvement. So if they choose academic remediation, this this slide works for them how they would structure, teach, observe, interact and correct. And again, this is a framework. This isn't the um the in the minutia of details that would need to be utilized to address the specific student need, but this is the overall framework that would be used for the evaluation, design, and progress monitoring. Um I don't think we want to talk through each of these. So, I I just wanted to share with the committee for each of those areas a slide that would show the framework for those different

117areas. Um, but we weren't going to list go through all of that detail, but certainly if you want us to bring this back and have more indepth conversation, we can certainly do that at a later time. Yep. And this yellow slide that moves beyond the stoic ones is the overview of the program design that we would want used um for the evaluation component so that we can report a very comprehensive datadriven response to our um state decision makers on alignment. Thank you for that. And then you've already talked about um working with UNCCW, that's on page 13, I'm sorry, slide 13 to be able to help us evaluate um the progress that we make with these additional positions. And Dr. Barnes, I don't know if you have anything else you would like to add to

118that. No, we just appreciate I mean with the endowment, with the commissioners, we appreciate the opportunity to bring forth the things that we need. I know that the questions come up about, well, two years from now, who's going to pay for this? We understand one that this is a pilot, that the job of a pilot is to try something, ensure that it works, and then refine it. This is a way for us to help address questions and concerns from our legislators and the state level about what schools actually need. We will tell you that there are more than one, let's just say a lot of unfunded mandates that end up in the state board regulations or general statutes that are not funded by the state. This is one of those areas. I think you need

119to predicate the endowment requests. I know that we we talked about with the county as well. You have to predicate it on two different questions. One, are our schools staffed adequately for the needs of our students? I'm going to tell you as sort of the expert in the situation, the answer to that question is no. The second question is, will we survive if we don't have these positions? Well, yeah, we're going to survive regardless, but is survival what we want for our students? Is status quo what our kids deserve? And that's what kind of has led us to this space? Not because we want to ask for something more. We want to ask for something that we can then use that data to leverage the conversation where it needs to go. Thank you. Uh question.

120This is our $4 million act to support 42 school positions for a period of two years. Right. and relatively and I will say in public unequivocally that that that will not turn into a county level ask if the endowment I we need it for two years. I will not ask for it past that. But this is what the school needs right now. U what would be helpful is to put that in writing. I I frankly I understand that won't come with my hand out in two years. Yeah. Or what? Oh, that you know that this will not roll down to the county. Uh in two years coming forward saying, "Wow, sorry, but we we really need you know $2 million a year to continue this wonderful program." Uh so I know that's some of the

121uh push back essentially we're getting from some of our commissioners uh about this program. and they just see it as uh okay, we know where this is headed. This is a delayed ask to the county for another $2 million per year or $4 million per year. Couple couple of responses to that. One is if this isn't funded by the by the endowment. I don't want to put that in writing because I do think I would come back to you and say this did not get funded by the endowment and it's still a need. Yes. I was the other response I'll say to that is I don't make it a point to put things in writing that I've already said publicly. Okay. My word is is is good enough in that regard. So I'm telling you

122that this will not turn into a county ask except unless I don't get it from the endowment and then I think it's going to come back as a county ask. Does that make sense? Yes. But that gets interpreted as you know the county's the fallback plan. So initially and in the future. Well, I'll say what I've told you before that the money, the argument about the money that needs to be paid for the water to put the fire out at my house doesn't put the fire out at my house. I can't move this the state. We have tried all spring. I can't move the federal government and we don't even know what the federal government funding is going to look like. I know that I can look you in the face and you care about

123our kids and you care about our kids and you guys care about our kids. I can't apologize for the fact that I'm going to push for what our kids need. I get it. But these are not things that are not emergent critical needs that we have. Because I also have to look at Miss Lennon in the face and Mr. Sutton in the face and Miss Moon in the face and Miss Clark in the face when I don't have the staffing they need to help kids in their schools. And Commissioner Zapple, you want to trust me that come to you in six months with a budget amendment. Mhm. He's told you on live stream he won't come back and act. Yes, it does. I'm looking for a path forward to get this done right. Yeah. Uh

124another thought I had and Julie maybe this is a question to you and I'm looking at this the stoic uh thing the acronym and what goes into it. It it reads to me is very similar to the leader and me program that we saw out at Porter Neck. Is there a connection? I share. Um it is it's not the same um materials and and product but it is a similar uh option. So Leader and Me and I'm I'm not a an expert on leader in me. Leader in me is um very much a school focus. Um safe and civil schools is a a body of instructional research and evidence base for u student engagement addressing chronic absenteeism, addressing appropriate behaviors, responding to behavior needs. And so it's more encompassing and it's based on more um

125school psychology research and the movement of academic achievement through the root causes. So it it's a very um multi-layered approach that supports um classroom management uh parent engagement all sorts of things that are not just about leadership skills for students. And I didn't mean to minimize leader in me as just leadership skills for students, but this is more encompassing for whole school improvement. Good in a comprehensive manner. Thank you. Yeah. And also forces schools to really examine their practices, their culture, their students to make the right decision. So you put on our initial resolution. Um Miss Bradford, can I just button that up? I'm sorry. I just want to button this up because I know you have an ask and I know you're trying very hard half a minute to get to the endowment folks.

126You know, this is a very good way to do that by showing that there are going to be outcomes that'll be proven and I just wanted to say that out loud because you know obviously I have I'm on both sides of this now and I do understand the needs and I try and convey that but I think that the endowment going forward is going to be appreciative of knowing that that is what you're going to show them. Would it help if I told you that that's a copy of what we already sent to the ender? Thank you. And we are going to move on to this last and we've gone over it as a board, but Commissioners Apple, Commissioner Walker, you know, if you have any questions, you have any questions for Amanda on this,

127I think now would be a good time. And Ashley's going to walk you through just a couple of quick things on this. So, sure. So, this is the uh beginning budget resolution that was approved by our board um that we are going to be putting in place here shortly. Across the top, this is probably a different format than you're used to seeing as far as resolutions. So, just to go through that really quickly, across the top, you see each of our funds. So we have six funds that we use to ensure u money designated for specific purposes are used for those purposes appropriately. Um and so we've got state public school funds. So these are funds that we receive directly from NCDPI that are state funds. Um the second column local current expense. These funds

128come from um the counties as a operational appropriation and also fines and forfeitures is included there. um federal grant fund are funds also received directly from DPI federal funding. Uh other restricted revenue fund are funds that are received for grants um that we put in that fund to track those separately. Um we also have some indirect cost revenue that goes there. And so we've talked about that before in this committee. Indirect cost would be when New Hmer County Schools is administering grants. Um and we're able to charge for the administration of those federal grants or private grants that we receive. Um then we have capital outlay fund. Um funding there comes from the county as a capital appropriation and also from lottery. And then we have our enterprise fund which is our child nutrition is

129what's included in that fund. And then as you go over to the um left hand side um you have regular instruction special populations um that first group of instructional services that's our direct interaction between staff and students. So that that grouping that you see there um and then broken down even to you know I guess drilling down a little bit under that area you've got regular instruction like I said special populations alternative programs um and then the next group is systemwide support services for staff and students and so I know um in the past we've gotten conversation or we've had questions about I don't know what's included in regular instruction versus what's included in support and development. So that's why we've also included the purpose um codes for you. So you can look so for

130example on page one if you are curious what those regular instructional services mean. Then you can see that's the cost of activities that provide students in grades K12 with learning experiences to prepare them for activities as workers, citizens and family members. And that's the first sentence, but that's how you could use this document um to go back and forth between the resolution to understand what those expenses are. Um I'm not going to go through each of those, but you can certainly go through those yourself to get those definitions and be able to see the different areas of funding for the different purposes of the budget. On page two, we continue go down on the left hand side. We had showed um child nutrition services. We do get some state funding there and a little bit

131of federal funding along with the enterprise fund that we talked about before. Um of course capital outlay is also listed there on the um left hand side along with payments to other governments um and indirect costs. And so the majority of that row is going to be charter schools that you see under local current expense. That $7 million number is what we our payments to charter schools. So payments to other government that 7.7454 that's Yes, that's charter schools. That's good to um and then the section two underneath you see um we talked about that a little bit. Um the revenue sources for the different funds um I talked about a little bit earlier. Um it's important to note I know the county staff over here is seeing that New Hver County number and that's a

132lot larger than um was in the PowerPoint slide. So that difference is remember for us these are all estimates. So we built this budget it based on our request to the county which included the 42 school specialist positions. So that's why that number is about $4 million higher because we do have those specialists included here. And just like with state and federal, we don't have those budgets, that revenue that we're going to actually receive yet. So once we know for sure what the county is going to provide, state, federal, we will come back to our board and adjust our budget accordingly. This is just our estimate based on our request and what we know at this point as far as planning numbers for um federal and state funding from DPI. Questions? One question, please. Could

133you could you just cover um how much of this budget is for paying staff because I think it's like 83%. 83%. I just wanted to say that out. Benefits and sales. Okay. Yeah. Which would also include the local supplement just for clarification. Would you also clarify with paying staff? Um I know Dr. Bar has spoken to it. So I just wanted it to be is it staff that inside the schools or in our central central office staff? Last year we reduced 53 people from our central office. So we are now at what I would call a subsistence level at both the school level and less than 10% of our overall staffing is and as well we've committed that any funding we receive in addition to where we go to schools not to central Ashley what

134uh what is I'm sorry no Eric you got a go first after you maybe you have the same question. What is the ADM number that you're using? So we are using um 20 2459 as the projected number. Um, so when we're estimating for uh state and federal our DPI funding, it doesn't include charter, it doesn't include charter schools or um preschool prek. Okay. In that number, no charter, no preschool in that number. Right. And uh in your in your financial numbers, Jeff yet, there are is prek considered at all in any of these columns? Yes. So prek for us is included in that other restricted revenue fund. Um so while it's not considered for estimating state and federal funding, it is included in other restricted because we receive grants for preschool. So we receive NC

135preK which is a grant and then also the funding we receive from the county we look to as a grant. So it's included in that column. And so if you look um at the bot on page two under revenue sources, you can see New Hover County, we've got the 2 million there um for the that's the prek grant that comes from the county. That's that $2 million number. Thank you. Welcome. Is there a um repairs and maintenance budget? And if so, is it paid out of operating or is it paid out of capital? Um we have repairs um a ma maintenance has a budget that they use for repairs. Is that I think that I'm trying to get an idea to Yeah. So it's um so maintenance would be included in 65 page two that

136first row operational support um 65 there. Um but remember for us operations is also transportation. It it's other things. It's not just maintenance. Thank you. Anything else? Uh trying to dig into this, Ashley. I'm really impressed. You're pulling this right out of your head on all this. I'm always impressed with you. The uh total for New Hover County, $107 million on page two under the local current expense fund. Yes. Maybe you said it and I just missed it. that there is no charter money in that number. Charter schools are included in that number. In that number, yes, but they are not included in the ADM number. Right. When when I say in when I was referring to included in the ADM number, I was referring to when I calculate the estimate of money I'll get

137from state and federal. I don't include charter schools because charter schools, they directly get money from DPI, state and federal money from DPI. I do include it in that local current expense column. Um, which is where I get county funding from because you guys give their money to me and then I write them a check. DPI gives the money directly to them. That's that's the way we look at it differently. Close to you. Correct. You can understand why we get confused. Oh yeah. Yes. I understand. I get confused too. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Anything else? All right. Um, we wanted to have some general discussion um on going forward and I feel like we're kind of behind the ball on this bond discussion. So, that's going to have to be the focus of our next

138meeting. But they've been bannering around some figures. And I just wanted to know what's the maximum ask for a bond if it was going to be in 26. What's the maximum ask? Is it enough to cover what we need or do we need to actually consider the following year? Um, that's a that's a debt ceiling question. It is a debt capacity question. Um, we do have a policy in place. The constraining factor is $2,200 per citizen. Uh, if you do the math on 240,000 citizens, that comes out in the $530 million range. We currently have debt outstanding of around $430 million, 430 to 440. So, we've got about $100 million of stated debt capacity. Um our policy we are talking to external advisors to see if there's any kind of wiggle room in that 2200

139dot that was devised years ago uh in consultation with the bond rating agencies to make sure we remain AAA rated. So going above that that capacity threatens potentially AAA u but we are nonetheless asking questions to ensure we're at a proper level. Um the other part is if in the c the bond referendum if it can can again be scheduled we're paying off principle every year around $45 million. So if you if we say we're you know going to issue uh you know x number of million and we're do it immediately that gives you one answer. If you say we're going to stagger it over a 5 to sevenyear period, then every year you're paying down principal which theoretically in you can take take into account when you come to that u debt capacity number.

140So state yeah keep going on your thought. I was say so stated right now our debt capacity is around 100 million. The next few years our debt looking at our CIP plan and looking at the debt on that we're paying down more we should be paying down more than we're should be issuing and that should be in the 25 to30 million range. But naturally, I would expect the 100 million to go to about 130 million by the end of next fiscal year. Um, just using the existing debt capacity that we've got. Then every year thereafter, again, we pay down about $45 million of principal and depending on how much debt we issue, that would cut into that payown amount. I don't know the answer to this question. Can you if we petition a bond, can

141you petition over a certain number of years? I mean, can we do it that way? I think you be lay out the plan as part of the referendum. You would lay out you would lay out the your plan. So, because like we said before, there's a difference between having all the money at once. there is a level of like a a saturation point where we can't do much more than that at a time. Right? So if if I think this is a question for another time, right? But if there was a way to petition for a bond that structures it over 10 years, you want me to do 20? No, 10's fine. Okay, that face was I know what that read that the headline number is going to be the the total dollar amount. That

142amount is the amount that would sort of be front and center, but then you would explain in in the detail that we're going to not we're going to issue it all at one time. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Yeah. I think Dr. Barnes, I think that that is how many many counties, you know, Charlotte Meckllinburgg um Guilford County when they when they've been and Wake County when they've been passing these really large school bonds, they are planning to not issue them all at once, right? And so I do think that's possible. and and we have a lot of work to do to help the public understand all of these things that I'm gaining a much better understanding correct of so that they support our ask of the county commissioner

143and staff to to to put that sort of debt towards our school facilities. It's a difference between rent, you know, paying off a car versus buying a car all at once. And and it's a really good point. If you just look at that list we have of of things, there's just no way you can do that in five years. You know, it's it's a long range thing. So my thought was this next meeting, we really we really shift other than one thing we've already identified. We shift and have mostly possible what's the possibility of a bond and what year would it be in and because that's kind of where we need to be. Yeah, we have to talk about timeline and what deadlines are. line has to be there and you and Eric talked about

144100 million which is far less than what we actually need. Well, you did actually mention it could go up to 130 depending on the things. Well, even if you did that I mean I know 30 million doesn't go very far these days and perhaps in the discussion we can talk about other discussions we can have for potential funding. I think on our last trip we talked about public private partnerships. I think we have to look outside of just the county in a referendum and we should that should be part of the discussion and we had to help us with it. We had some discussion of private private public our very first meeting back in October and I don't think you were here for that. No, but we got to have a serious get our feet

145wet on that that concept because time is of the essence I think. Yeah. As far as a referendum's concerned and how much and for how long. I mean that's all important but other other potential pull it off this year but just the amount of available workforce in the county to do the projects is a thing too. True. True. Um so with that said go ahead. So I I don't want to overstep but I just want to make sure that this committee is aware. So this committee um we combined three committees and to this committee. So um the bond committee was also combined into this. So based on that my understanding would be and please correct me if I'm wrong. This is the group that would determine the priorities of this list which would then go

146to our board for consideration. So, I think that that's one of the next things we need to have on our list is conversations, more in-depth conversation about the items so that this committee can determine what what the order is. So, then um we have the list and Eric can help us, county staff can help us figure out how far down we can go on the list. So, that's just food for thought for maybe the next meeting. Yeah. And with that said, can we look and see when we could have the next meeting? Um, things get dicey in the school district between now and summer. Um, in terms of being able to schedule anything, if you could please not schedule it before the final graduation of the school year, which is when? June 7. Yep. Seven.

147Yes, ma'am. First time I've talked today. Hey, everybody. That's a Saturday. June 7. So the second week of June is their availability because this is going to be a really important meeting. I need everybody to be here and we tend to meet on Thursdays. Is that still a good day? Not on the 12th. Pardon me. Not on June 12th. Okay. That's the uh last principal meeting and it's a celebration. It's in this building. that got cancelled June 12th. Yeah. Oh, has it hasn't been changed on the calendar? So, June 12 is now in play. Any other date? We all All all the county has is a commission meeting at 4, but I think as long as we keep it at 12:30, I think it should be fine. Yeah. Is that okay with Amanda? I mean,

148you should ask you as well. Yeah, you guys. Well, with it Yeah. with it being budget and year- end season. Um I don't know your availability. She's like, "Yeah, June June is June is crazy. June is tricky." And Miss Barnard has some June dates she can't meet. But um and by the way, we found out that the school district has moved from Google to Outlook and the email between you and the invitations has kind of got funky. Thank you, Natalie. And some people are you okay on the 12th of June? Okay. Um boss said yes. Um so you may not be able to respond and receive. We got to figure out another way to to talk to you about these meetings. I we might just start calling you personally the week out and say hey

149are you coming or are you not coming to remind you because right now Outlook and Google are fighting with each other in our district and we're losing but ultimately we'll end up with Outlook completely. Yes. We are helping people learn a system that has some user error in it as a person who's using the system, myself included. Sorry. But some some some people don't even get it to implement till way later. So, it's confusing. Yes, sir. I was just going to mention at the October meeting, I brought forth a timeline on the proposed bond. I was just going to perhaps remind you of a couple the initial dates. Okay. October 31st was listed as um the project scope being determined and then a three-month period to determine the cost of that scope. So October 31st

150again determine the scope January 31st have the estimated cost finalized for the kind of the first two steps in that and we can bring that back we can bring that back to the next meeting as well. That same document that we've already shared. Oh my gosh, that's like four months from our next meeting. Yeah, we're gonna have to we're gonna have to just focus. We're gonna start I mean hone in. I thought we were going to get a little further on it today, but we're gonna have to hone in and really we ought to be able to call it on or call it off in terms of do we want to go forward? Do we not? So, we're going to have to have everything we need to make up make up our mind. Can we

151do it this time frame that we have or what happens if we don't? I mean, that's the time frame, right? So, that's what we have to work with. I mean that's just the fact of it. So I mean if you're talking about putting on a you know a ballot or a referendum on a ballot that's their rules. So not not you know like it's a pretty involved process that timeline there's not a lot of fluff in there. So that's pretty much what it needs to be. From today so four months our next meeting. Yeah. Okay. So um that's yeah we're gonna we're going to cover just two things next meeting and hit it hard. And so with that said, if there's nothing else, a motion to adjurnn and I will second that. So we're adjourned