Board Meeting Work Session - 3/27/2026

001I had my coffee. That's proof. >> And I didn't print it. I mean, I did. No. Are we on? Good morning, everybody. It is March the 27th, 2026. It is 9:00 a.m. The Mercer County Board of Education is in special session. Uh, we're going to have a work session this morning, but before we get started, we're going to do the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Now, can Mr. Cole say pledge if they like all the little ones? All right. That's all the business portion of some sort. Please to that page. Yeah, I'm I'm trying to we have a afternoon session, too, with some disciplinary issues, and I'm trying

002to make sure that I know what I'm I got in front of me. Okay. So, we had a variety of topics for subject this morning in a work session format, and I'm going to try to hit the ones that we can probably discuss fairly quickly. Uh they're no not they're not any less important, but they're just things I think that we probably can come to a fairly quick agreement on. So, let's go down here and start with uh Kim Miller dedication, cuz we've talked about it before, and and we seem to be in agreement that we need to do something at Bluefield Middle to dedicate uh regarding her service to the county and the kids in Bluefield. Um So, um let's talk about it. Greg, I've been over there a couple times to look at

003to talk to talk to some of the staff staff members, and the the consensus is um what they would like to see the atrium that was fixed up last year outside of the cafeteria, um to have some type of formal dedication in her memory. At first, it was maybe do the gymnasium and as as Tom pointed out, you got to shave the floor and start all over and that's got a good size expense. So, I talked to some of the folks over there, the head of their faculty senate and gave them my idea and I said, but this is just my idea. We want to do something to honor her in her memory. And um they would like to see us do something um with the atrium and make it a formalized There's there's a

004spot any of if you've been there last year Community Connections helped and they they painted some murals up above. Then you've got a big piece of metal part of the building and it's blank and then down below is the atrium and it's been taken taken care of. They replanted trees, put a everybody anybody that knows Kim knew that she was crazy about Bigfoot. So, they've got a statue of Bigfoot in there. They've got a couple of tables. The school is letting the some students earn the right to go out there and sit during lunch time when weather permits and that some of the teachers are taking their smaller classes out there as an outdoor teaching facility. But my thought and my point to them was let's um maybe buy letters, get letters and put it

005up in that brown space below below the two things and just say, you know, in memory of Kim D. Miller or in honor of or in memory of or dedicated to whatever you might want to do. Uh and they were they were very happy with that opportunity. What says the board? I think if that's what I think whatever the staff is requesting I'm fine with. I was just pondering the wording Yeah, that Oh, yeah. >> to me just name it the Kim Kim Kim Miller atrium. atrium rather than saying Miller Atrium. That's fine. Well, that's what I asked I got nothing back from the faculty senate lady. She said they thought it was a great idea and left it at that. And they haven't suggested anything else to you? >> No. Okay. No, I've been

006up there three times. >> And it's that that space that structure is big enough that you could put nice size letters. So it was pretty prominent instead of a little plaque that you can't see unless you go right up to it. >> Mr. Atkins. Has anyone spoken to Doug? Uh Doug is aware that we we have the desire to do something and he was he was fine with it and so was Aaron. I haven't talked to her daughter. Okay. Um but what we would probably need your help with let's say we're just going to do Kimberly D. Miller Atrium um or whatever you want to call it. And um you look at the space and then we don't want it to be gaudy you know gaudy so you >> it appropriately. Yeah, size it appropriately

007and get it come back to us with a cost. >> Okay. And we you know if we could try to have that up and running and done before the school year's out. How do Okay. That's that might be a little a little tougher. I mean I know we can still do purchase orders and things but it may take a little while but um I I would like to know exactly how what we want Do we want Kimberly D. Miller Atrium? What what do we want on there? I don't think we know her as Kimberly D. Miller. Okay. Kim Kim Miller Atrium? Kim Miller. >> I think that's I I mean I just that's what we knew her as. >> Yeah. Nobody called her Kimberly that I know of. Did anybody call her Kimberly that I

008didn't think so. Okay. I never did. I think Kim Miller. I'm just I'm I'm the big big idea guy not the minutia. >> principal on there or or or like we do out here with with uh the um which just says the Jane Bailey uh greenhouse. The Gilbert C. Of course he was known as Gilbert chain Bailey, so. Uh I don't I knew him as Mr. Bailey, so. So did I. >> Yeah, same. Is this Is this something going forward that we want to like not just set money aside, but do we want to help them maintain this space as well? Normally, we don't do that anywhere else, is why I'm asking. They They take care of their own. I think that we let our new principal um know again my thoughts, let him know,

009and there's garden clubs in Bluefield that could help with things like that. Or you let the kids out there to pull weeds. Yeah, just let him know that's the school expectation. I don't think it it should be our responsibility cuz it was built years ago, and then it just no for lack of anybody doing anything, it looked like a jungle. You couldn't see from one side to the other. >> Yeah, that was the design thing at back in the day was the atrium areas. Yeah, that were usually not safe for fire marshals. They didn't really like them, but yeah. That's okay. But it's um you know, I just think that it's I think it's appropriate. You know, Kim was not just a friend, she was a friend first, but she was a colleague of the

010people up there in the community. She She She stepped into um a good good position, I think, from um Steve Akers, but at the same time um this the place still has the stigma of of being a a hard hard hard spot. And Kim Kim was all for the kids, but she she gave them tough love. Sure. And I think that uh Dr. Myers is going to do the same thing. Okay. Middle school Middle school is rough anyway, you guys. Yeah, it's just a rough time in life. >> Yeah, it's hard. But yes, that's no problem. I'll I'll start getting quotes. Somebody pointed out to me the other day that the lady that started Montessori said that when kids get to the fifth grade, we should let them go home for 3 years, and And

011bring them back in the ninth grade because they just it's just hard. I thought well that's kind of funny. Um I And again, I don't know if that's true or not. Somebody just told me she said that. I didn't Google it, so I don't know. Yeah. One of my favorite classes groups to teach were seventh graders. Now ninth grade, not so much. Well, back in the year back in the you know, several years ago when Bluefield High School couldn't get football games locally, we went to Charlotte Country Day down in Charlotte, private school funded to the to the hilt. And they bought a closed down junior high school about 2 miles down the road. On the main campus, they had K through five and then nine through 12, but they put the middle school kids

012down the street because they felt like a lot of those reasons was why they need to have their own space and not in either be influenced or influence. Okay. So, let's move on since we seem to have a consensus on that. >> Yeah. And I'll get with Dr. Myer and and Mr. Atkins will get together as a team and come up something and try to get a dedication soon and then we'll uh we'll get it done. I think that's what you were wanting, right? By April or something have a dedication as soon as possible. If we can do I'd be great. And I'll have it done at least a dedication of what we're putting together is what I was thinking. Either one. I mean, I would think you're going to do the dedication once the

013letters are up. What do you think? Yeah. And Tom was worried about that. Well, if you can't get it, I'd say then whatever. We could do it next Whenever you get the letters Yeah, whenever I would think you'd wait till the letters are up cuz if there's going to be pictures and stuff. All right. Um let's talk about >> I'm sorry. I All I'm going to say guys is we got 3 hours or 4 hours to This is on top of maybe include if we could get one what she just said maybe we could include a picture it makes it more personal. Well, Kim yes yes I think you're I think you're right. They have a little framed piece. If you're standing in the office and looking out to the atrium there is a 8

014and 1/2 by 11 that talks about it and I don't know if her pictures in it or not. But where the real focal point would be when you're standing in the cafeteria looking out into the atrium. But anyway. All right, the status update of surplus property. I'm not sure who asked that to be put on here so I'm going to I did. I was just curious where we are have we gotten our asbestos numbers for tearing down or did you have put it out for bid? No, he called me yesterday. They already they did their final walk-through on Wednesday. They were just verifying everything that they had. He was supposed to he's supposed to have me the final demolition reports today. >> Which schools? Both of them all three of them? All three, yes. And

015we we've had more of vandalism and vagrancy at Series for sure so the sooner the better and plus like I just had to put well, I don't really want to say. Um but we um I hope to have it today and Don asked me from purchasing when she could when we could move forward with the bid cuz we just put it on hold. We had a pre-bid but we never uh put it out to bid because we didn't have that information so hopefully within the next month. Greg, what about >> Well, and the whole board hasn't discussed this but uh at a at the request of uh of uh Skip Crane we met with him at Blue Whale to look at the gymnasium cafeteria part of the building, which is in good shape from what

016I can tell. And he really would like to see that be kept and that the property be given they have a 501c3 in the community to let them keep that and use it for a community center. Uh just that part of the building. It's the when you walk into the cafeteria or the the gym, it's just the gym. The rest of the building is is you can see how it's been built onto if you walk around it because the brick's different. Um the the statute does permit us to to convey property over to three 501c3s, but we did talk to him about the fact that we had to know that there was resources to take care of the building and that the community would uh uh Support. keep it up and support it. And he

017told us he'd get back to us on that. Yeah, I talked with Skip about 3 weeks ago concerning that it was still in progress. He was still uh talking to the Right. >> community and so didn't have any final and he said to me honestly, he said that if the support's not there, then the support's not there. He understood that. >> Right. Well, that's what we we we certainly want to give any opportunity to to use it for the community cuz that's taxpayer dollars that built it. Yeah, and it's a shame to take something that's is useful if you've got the right group um that would be caretakers of it to tear something perfectly good down. Well, we reminded him you know, the the power would have to be rewired. Uh the roof probably needs

018to be looked at. Um it's a it's a big venture. It's not a you know, that's not a one or two person deal. That's a community deal. But again, if if if they're behind it and they want to do it At least from my perspective, it seems to be an appropriate use of the property. And the series needs to be torn down. It's in bad shape. What kind of time frame are we looking at? >> the walls are such that you can tear up the rest of the old It looks like you could because it was built on. It wasn't part of the original structure. You you got kind of an incline going from the last area up into the gym. So and we looked at we stood outside and looked and you can as

019he said as Greg said you can see the difference in the brick. And um it would they would have to do some type of an entrance or whatever block or brick brick that egress down to or not the the ramp whatever down to where the schools the school building start and then they'd have that area there. There's a a little park they got some playground equipment in there right now. Um and then The playground equipment's Playground equipment's set to get demoed. Yeah, it's that's it's not in good shape. Yeah. Well, but what's there we're going to And and we told him that what he needed to do was talk talk to whomever find the money to do some type of a report to let us know what their idea is and how it's going to

020be supported moving forward and he said he'd take care of that. So the ball's in his court and he didn't need and told him next before you go on the damn TV darn TV excuse me and make us look bad. Um let us you know keep us informed because we're interested in helping. So Question. Question though we did vote to tear everything down but now we have one something you want something back on the 13th and just have maybe Mr. Crane come by the 13th to give you an update and then say where they're at as a community cuz that's my correction right? Yeah, we'll need to know pretty soon. Okay. Yeah, well we need to communicate with him and let >> And have you at least the vote during a meeting of the 13th

021whether you're going to have Mr. Crane in the community do that or cuz we did vote to tear down. So, we got to probably pivot on that. >> I understand. Okay. I agree. Okay. There's nothing else on that, then let's go to the top of the list and work our way down. I thought those were probably quick. 13th would be a good deadline though. Mr. Crane needs to try to get back on Try to get We've got to get Crane on that. Well, we need to We need to get to our people and tell them what we're doing so they'll I mean I'm assuming they're not going to be tearing them down all three at the same time. I'm assuming they're going to go to one and then the next and then the next. I

022would I would say it depends on who gets the bid. If it's a large company, they may mobilize to this area and do all three at once. Okay. Time frame on that time soon, is that the the bids? Well, the we just had to put it on hold for a while. So, I would say month and a half, maybe two months. >> good. So, we got to cuz we're still doing the we're still dealing with the asbestos issues. Yes, I should have the report today. And then we're going to We're going to push that out to the people who came to the pre-bid, give them probably a week to review all of that and then get their bids back to us. I I don't know the bidding process, but it's generally what we do. >>

023Sounds fair. I would say the 13th would be suitable for our time frame, but probably be really tough for Skip. I think it would probably be too. >> got to at least come and report to us what he's doing. Yeah. And And as Mr. We've got to put the fire under him. And we we have him breaking in, breaking locks. I know you you uh put barriers and nails and boards crossed everything. Will County Devin Hatfield to report to the office, please. Devin Hatfield. So, that's been an issue, Mr. All all three places, people keep breaking in and trying to live there and just vandalizing and tearing stuff up for for no reason. Cuz I think that's how the interview happened with this the Yeah, yeah. The building was secure and the power was turned

024off. Yes, sir. I don't know how it got turned back on, but it wasn't now. >> Yeah, when they when they when they came, they let us in, but I told them not to bother with the power cuz there was plenty of light in the building. Because I didn't want to you know, they didn't need to stand around and worry about power. Uh the but it was it blew I was interesting because the the old building, the classrooms looked like it a hurricane had gone through it, but the gym was actually just big storage space. It looked pretty It looked like it was in pretty good shape. I I don't didn't see anything in terms of damage or vandalism. Um That's that's generally where we've been having people come in though is in that back

025>> the gym. Through the gym, yes. Yeah. Through where the playground area is. Big lawn. They're going to have a little more struggle after the after I left the last time as I was watching the way they were locking it up. I don't know if they're going through a door. They're going to >> Well, we did you can't just go flip the power back on. You have to do some work now if you want it to power. Good. That's good. Good to know. All right. We want to keep it safe. Yes. All right. So, let's talk about employee recording. At the last board meeting, I gave you guys an idea or a thought about what we could do that was less um aggressive and that was to offer the opportunity to have the conversation recorded

026if you wanted to. I mean, you know, it's an attorney. I understand why someone in a disciplinary matter would want to have the conversation recorded. I get that. I do understand that. And if there's a process in place that makes it easy for everybody because we have to remember the problem with recording is is if you discuss children or you discuss parents or you discuss co-workers, you're violating policy if that if that recording gets out in the world. So, it my thought was instead of asking the employee to be the uh person that begins the process, that the uh supervisor is the one that says it. We're starting this Would you like this to be recorded? And if you do that every time with every meeting, it's not adversarial anymore. It's just part of the

027process. And And part of the process would be ready to make that recording. Come prepared to make that >> Right. We would have to have We would have to provide devices. And then And then you need to store the recording for a while. So, if the person needs to access it, that it's available to them. Um So, we would not allow them to record it separately. They would We would just have the one recording that everybody would have access to. My My problem is is the the separate recording. If you leave the building with with discussions that include children or parents or you you know, FERPA could be a an issue. Uh we don't want to create a situation if it's adversarial to begin with, but not only that, it that that can allow information

028that shouldn't go out to the public to get out to the public. It would also prevent incomplete recordings, too, if it was That's true as well. So, you guys want to see that back in that format in the future? I have a question. You You just said There is in front of you a copy that I have revised with your changes that you gave us at that board meeting. Thank you. Uh-huh. Thank you, Amber. And the the one of the suggestions I would make is probably in that pile is instead of the employee making the request, that the supervisor affirmatively ask. So, the employee doesn't have to do anything. The employee can just say, "I'm here for my meeting." And then the the supervisor says, "Would you like this recorded?" Completely eliminates the adversarial nature

029of it. You just said every meeting would start that way. Um Did you mean every meeting or every meeting >> Disciplinary. Anything that's potential, either disciplinary for sure or potentially disciplinary. And it it simply it solves a problem that that uh uh again, we don't want it to be adversarial. Any disciplinary hearing or or conversation between a supervisor and employee is a stressful enough. We don't need to make it more stressful by uh the employee having to say, "Well, I want this recorded." But, we would prohibit recordings otherwise. >> I think that's what the I think that's what it says. >> I'm just going to verify. Back in 4.0 administration, um it just it says administrators shall not prohibit, discourage, or retaliate requesting that the meeting be recorded. Well, that would change, too. >> would

030that would have to change since it's going to be part of the policy that the supervisor would be that would be part of their opening salvo is Well, you would simply say they shall not prohibit, discourage, or retaliate against an employee requesting that the meeting be recorded. Well, That's what it says, and But, you still have they they still have to say, "I'd like it recorded." I mean, ultimately. Cuz I'll be honest with you, if it were me, I'd request it be recorded every time. Well, what about the next sentence? Administrators may decline to continue meeting once a request for the record That would have to be that had to be deleted. I think if if if if the If we're giving the option If we're giving the option, you you got to go through

031with it. Which one is that? 4.1, last page. 4.1, under 4.1. Yeah, on this side. Well, they have those little they have the little uh digital recorders that you can digitize the conversation and store it. I mean, I'm sure we can find a storage. >> one of those for every supervisor in the system? Well, that's true. That'd be a lot. You'd have to have a lot if you're going to give them to everybody. It's a supervisor or somebody. What if you just have one in the central office and they go check them out? The principal issues what I think this is. You're going to have to leave from from your school to here and bring the employee with you. Yeah, that's not a good It's not a good approach. >> And there could be more

032than one conversation going on at central office at a time. I mean, you don't know. Well, I you know, again, I I've I've been an attorney for approaching 40 years now. And what I can tell you it for certain is this is conversations that take place without recordings you get two versions of them. Yeah, for sure. When you have a recording, there's one version and that's the recording. And it it just becomes a it becomes a a fight over what was said. Uh you know, this isn't uh uh directed at anybody. It's just simply a solution uh uh for everybody. Cuz it protects the the supervisor as well. So. Yeah, my point is just to think through the logistics of it before we do it. I think the one thing that we should see is

033probably if there are uh digitized recordings, they probably should be a central storage. I I >> So, they're they need to be sent to personnel one person like the personnel or and then maybe put a file where those recordings are. Probably done by date and then since it says year at the end of the year, they could be deleted. My wife uses these little recorders. I mean That's the digital recorders. to record cuz she does secretarial secretary the secretary of several organizations and and they're I mean, they're the same flawless. I mean doesn't have any problems recording. >> We would need to make sure there's a system in place that that access is restricted to Well, that's why a need to know situation. You know what I'm saying? Well, that's what we do now with

034personnel records, right? There you go. Okay. So, are we going Well, we we don't vote on it today. >> at this. I think we need to Yeah, I think we It's probably a good idea and then we can talk about the logistics a little more. Um because we need Brent to tell us about the logistics. Um Okay. So, the next one is the solicitation policy, which I don't really think is the right word because I'm not sure that that the education association is actually soliciting anything so much as just communicating. Um Do we have a copy of that one, please? No, I don't have I was provided in the Right. >> I'll stay out. Yeah. Is this one the handwriting of yours? That was Mr. Pruitt's. That's the one. No, that's not my handwriting. You

035can read it. Um That's my handwriting. I see an ACT. Yeah. Yeah, it's not mine. Um So, this was kind of a just a Here's a lot of different things that you can do. Uh that um I I I think that the the people I've spoken to in the system that want to talk to their representatives would like it to be easier and not have to seek them out or talk to them after school or before school. Uh and I think that it can be done without disruption. Uh my observation of the the people involved is it will be done without disruption, but we need to make sure that the policy is such that that we can Both sides understand. Well, yeah. I mean it it's a it's a If for example, you show up

036and there's a big all school event, then the administrator just needs to be able to say, "Well, we can't do that today." Because we've got an all school event. Um But there also needs to be an understanding, so the access is available uh because we do have a lot of members and they want to communicate. Uh they may have questions about something that's going on or or a a meeting or uh PEIA or benefits. If there's all kinds of reasons why uh the organization needs to talk to their their members. And I think we need to I mean there I distinguish the organization the employees organization from someone that's trying to sell insurance. It's not the same. Are you saying that the only people who can come in are the employees association? >> No, I'm

037saying that right now they're treated like the guy that's selling insurance. Okay. And I don't I don't think that's appropriate because they're not the guy selling insurance. But for example, if you have a person who wants to sell or for example, I built a addition to my house with my cancer insurance. Um If they want to come in just set up in the work room and be there and people come in during their uh free planning period could they can we we can still do that? >> know why we we couldn't allow that. I mean that's my that's my idea is I I don't understand why that's different to me than than someone selling a product sitting out in the campaign atrium and say, "Come here a minute. I need to talk to you." That's

038what That's what I'm talking about. Is that it needs to be it needs to be appropriate and again I the conversations I've had is it's we're not there to disrupt, we're not there to get in the way. We we just want to have access for our members. I don't think that's unreasonable. >> No. Years ago I did that. I did school school insurance. They the principal provided me with a with a room. It was the the teacher break room. And I sat there all day long. And spoke to people and they you know, someone come in and say hello and get their lunch and go back to their room, but I stayed in that designated spot. And people you know, people knew knew you were there. Principal controlled it all. And you know, that's that's

039what I think we need to be able to to give them the opportunity. Chasing them down the hall, I don't agree with that. I don't think they're going to chase them. Guys, I I've seen it happen. Yes. Uh several years um the the the two sides of the coin here. One, I I definitely think that if they're an employee service organization should be able to talk to the employee. I I think maybe the best way is to have an area that the principal could designate for them to be there. And I think the reason why is because if you turn them loose, it's inevitable I'm going to get a complaint from some other teachers that such and such approached me and I didn't really want to be approached. So, I think that's why it's important

040that uh they check in with the principal and the prin- principal has the desig- The principal building level principal understands where that location would be. But now, these sales and things, I don't want to have to vet these people, so I agree that they need to be vetted by the superintendent, assistant superintendents, Mr. Atkins, or whomever that they are up to snuff and not selling snake oil, so to speak. Cuz sometimes I wondered, but uh Well, we've always left the management of our our buildings to administrators, and I don't think that changes with this. I think it just simply sets the guidelines for the sales people versus the people that are employees, cuz they're our employees. And that's easy for me to distinguish between the two. And we just need to have guidelines, so it's

041easy for everybody to understand what's going on. So, it'd be my suggestion that we take this information and create a policy that fits within these guidelines, and then we can go through that policy and make the changes we need to, cuz we don't really have a policy in front of us so much as a as idea. And it'd be nice if we could do that sooner rather than later. So, off of your notes there, we'll place that into policy >> Yeah, and then and then we can get through the policy and get through the details, right? Does it say Yeah, we need to have in there I agree with Mark about having a designated location, not just room to room the building. >> want that. >> Yes. So, I don't know if that's >> we'll

042have it out on a comment period again, like all policies. Right, absolutely, absolutely. sales come to you. Yes. The one thing that the one thing that as a building level uh principal or assistant principal or whatever, there were certain things that like when we had book fairs and things, you know, we we scheduled those. Um and I think they're very valuable, and the teachers for the most part loved their book fairs. Most teachers enjoy books, so that's something that I as a principal could do. I mean, we work with all these companies for year after year after year. But um Well, I know there there there are organizations that at Christmas time come in and do basically here's a table full of toys. >> Yeah. Bring the kids through. I do do we Yeah, we

043did some >> Ernie, do you have to deal with that at your level? Yeah. Okay. All right, so we're still doing that. Yes. At a level about what >> it go through you all or can those things be set up by the principal? Well, if it's if money's involved, we have to approve it like Well, I know that if it's a fundraiser, yeah. Like American water will come to start the school and set up I mean, it's it's um That's something the principals Yeah. I I agree with Mr. Buck Green on the principal has to say yes and they don't they don't have the control because we always manage the safety of our building and Yeah. Um and if people especially you don't know them I would like them to primary level if someone walked

044too slowly down Tiger Drive, I could call. Yeah. >> is that the so You appreciate that. Okay. Well, let's let's get it in the form of a policy so we can actually have a little more >> Make changes. And and then if we need to make changes, we can do that. >> Mr. Taggart, you in your experience as far as the especially the insurance, that's the one I wonder about. Um maybe Ernie, you all as far as vetting those organizations, how's that done? That's already done. Leslie has worked with that. Okay. You know, and if because if Right now, we have one one organization, you know, that for the lack of a better term, you know, has been approved And it's been an an issue every county I've been in. Some have always been able

045to get in and when you come in, why do they have a right? We didn't put a bid out there. You've got that. You know, I I go back to being in Wetzel County. My brother had Toman Agency. Boy, he should have had it in to be able to set up Toman Agency. But again, that would have been an ethics issue. but how come everybody all the other companies got to do that? So, we we stopped that and and and again When you say stopped it, do you mean You can't Yeah, you got If you're going to have an insurance do Why do we have them in a captive area? You know, they ought to get out there and bird dog and do some work instead and and Mr. Bailey may get me in a

046headlock here in a minute being an insurance agent, but again, if we got them in a captive audience where we got to be teaching and learning, we got protective instruction times. State law says that's what we're supposed to do. That plan is to improve instruction and then you got just because this neighbor hit us up quickly and said, "Hey, can I have them come in here?" Well, there will be a $5 bird dog fee for the board members that sells you selling that insurance form. That's what I stopped in my career, but again, when you stop something that's always been working that way, that's the headache that you get in there and that's just I mean, state code protects that. I talked a lot of superintendents, same with the organizations and all that. They they

047only do that during plan period or not plan periods and instruction period. You know, I had people come over wanting to talk about a grievance and all those things. Well, you those are always wide open. You've got to give them time for that. But again, just meeting and all those things, you protect that instructional time and you know as a former principal that you got to we got to we got to work on teaching and learning and that's what we protect there, but I think our principals are anxious to look at this policy, maybe have some comeback feedback on it, too. They They like that um we took that ground. I I appreciate looking at me as a superintendent so it isn't falling on my shoulders that I did this, but I think again, we

048have that responsibility and I know Raleigh County has that. I I think there's some political issues why Raleigh has that open to be able to do that, too. Uh you know, we I It's just that >> I'm I'm comfortable. I understand the perspective. I My view is they're our employees. Yeah. I don't understand why we make it difficult when it doesn't need to be difficult. That's That's my bottom line. >> and with that you've got some employees that don't want to talk to salesmen or anything. I mean Well, they're not and they don't have to. And they don't have to and they wouldn't be there they wouldn't have >> them in a designated area and they know that they've the the word has been put out that Jim's going to be here all day in

049the where in the conference room and um he's Here's what he does and if you're interested stop by. Or if if Jim knows that he's got half a dozen of the of the employees that are interested or wanted he wants to talk to then he reaches out to them to tell them he's going to be in the building. You know, and from from the the um So, what what do we do What What do we do right now if a company comes to us and wants to sell? They go through Leslie first. >> An employee benefit. Plus they have They have to be part of the They have to have a state contract. I understand all that. I'm talking about the the practical aspect of what do we do. Do they have to come to

050you first? Or they do you go to Ernie or Rosemary depending on the building or I I know that again I've been out of it since 2019. But the a lot of these things in the past I'm sorry. A lot of these things in the past I'm not talking about our representation from our organizations. What I'm talking about is um mostly insurance salesmen. The Aflac guy. Whoever. And uh we would get uh email from the central office saying that it was okay. Otherwise, most time I'd show them the door. Hm. So, that we're still doing Yeah, we're we're still I think Leslie's probably best to answer that question. I know she isn't here, but right now the only additional employee benefit that I'm aware of is um in the form of insurance is American Fidelity.

051And then of course that's been communicated to our administrators, building level administrators, um from the central office that that they are allowed to do that. And we actually, you know, have have worked with them in the last week or two to They've been uh for the open enrollment period. Um and you go through that but that's other than that Mr. Godfrey's correct that, you know, as principal without central office approval, um you know, we didn't just say someone could come in because it could be a lot of a lot of concerns uh with that. Well, I don't think this is designed to change that. Okay. That's not the point of this. Okay. Then we'll see something at the next board meeting. Blockout policy. So, we received uh a request to consider changing the way we

052do blockout. So, Rosemary, could you give us a summary of what we do now? And I know you've spoken to the woman directly and what she's asking. Get your mic on. Thank you. Currently, we allow students, seniors. We don't block out um any of the others, but seniors are allowed to have We still call it blockout cuz we'd started this when we had block scheduling. It's actually a period, not really a block anymore. Um but if they um have all the credits they need in their senior year, they can block out first period or sixth period. If they have a job to go to, if it's something they can do before they come to the school, if they're taking a class. If they take college classes on site like at Concord or Bluefield site, um

053for every class they take and if they can show proof that they're taking it, then they can have that period out. And we have some kids that by their senior year basically are taking everything off campus. Um, the the issue with it that we've always dealt with is not so much letting the kids do it, but the kid who will bring in their proof that they have a job or bring in their proof that they have a schedule from the college and then a little bit of time goes by and you found out they've dropped the classes or they've quit the job and Mr. Garforth, we've talked a little bit about this and I think the way he handled it when he was at school that to me sounds I mean like like a good

054suggestion. This particular parent's concern was she said she has two children. Um, one will come through and go through all 12 years or 13 years with with us like they ordinarily would. The daughter though, um, apparently has a full-time job. She works a lot of long hours now on the weekends. The mother is saying that she has, um, English and civics of course is the two things they have to have their senior year. However, if they've done dual credit, they may already have that as well. But if they have to have that, what she's saying is she could take those two classes and then go out and work the rest of the day and it would keep her from having to work so many hours on the weekend and she has some responsibility with car

055payment and that kind of stuff. It's her question was, you know, are there any ways around this? Are there, you know, can you all consider looking at things differently? And and I did I did tell her I said our board, you know, will listen to suggestions that people have and I really wanted to be able to come in and talk, but she has young children said she couldn't do it. Um, so that's the purpose of the letter just kind of expressing her concerns and why they want that. And and that's she's not the only parent that you all know as well as I do. We've got a lot of kids that make their own car payment or have to pay their insurance or you whatever they're doing that they really do need those jobs. I

056will tell you that right now, if we have students who are in option pathway, if they um have completed everything that they've needed in CTE, and if they have passed the option pathway test, we let them block out for the remainder of that year. They still are in that cohort, they still come back for graduation, but there's really no need to keep them there. They're finished with everything, and the majority of those we have a form that they fill out, and the majority of the kids the parents will have marked on there that there's either a financial need or there's an extenuating circumstances. Sometimes it's a young mother or a young father that has a baby that they need to take care of. Um and then of course, if they're going to college. So, the

057counselors are really good about completing those forms with the students. They meet with the parents, the parent, the principal, the counselor, and the student will sign off on it before it's sent to us. And then, you know, we we review it and sign off on it if we agree. If not, we have to tell them why we don't. But that's what we're doing right now. What in the current policy prevents this particular circumstance from letting us do it? The way we have it worded right now, it's one it it's going to say block. It's not going to say period. It's going to say one block, cuz that's what we were doing. It needs to be revised. It needs to be And And I told her that when we talked on the phone, I said, "You

058brought up something that I hadn't even thought about." But since we've gone from block to periods, we need to do it, because for some of these kids, I mean, two periods could make a huge difference. You know, if they could leave at 1:00 instead of 2:15, 2:20, and then work till 5:00 or 6:00, that's a pretty good pretty good day for them. But that that's how all this has arrived. Questions? What we do When I was in school, we didn't have too many I guess class requirements. 28. But I left my junior and senior year at 1:00 and went straight to work. And you know, I was paying my car payment, paying my insurance, and with one And it's my opinion, but with only that one block, one period, that really doesn't doesn't do a

059whole lot. And if we're requiring kids, and we had discussions, if you remember, I think talking about um going from 28 to 25 or credits, that could that would make a difference also, because you've got kids here, and some of them could become discipline issues. Um They're taking classes they don't want, they don't need, and that's just because they're required to have 28 class credits. But, the ones that need to work for to help find it, help with family or things like that, I think we need to make accommodations, and maybe it comes with a little bit of both. We We look at reducing our class requirements from 28 to 26 or 25. State requires 21. And Mr. Bailey, we actually have an added class that's required now. It's the personal finance, so 29 would

060be what we have to have now. >> about that one. Yeah. It's It's actually not on here to discuss, but I think our administrators would like to have that conversation as well, would they not? Yes, sir. So, we need to we need to think about that for a future board meeting. Uh I I've got a lot of >> Go ahead, Mark. I again live this. We did discuss, Rosemary and I, and I've got several things to say on this. Um First of all, is there a financial Is there It come on, didn't it? We need a red flashing light to remind us of our microphone. >> I hit it, didn't it? I just didn't see the light didn't come on. Um is there a financial consideration for the school system if we don't have butts

061in seats, so to speak, because at one time when this came up before, about 10 years ago, I was told that, that there is a financial side to this if the kids aren't in school. Do you anybody know if that's true? That may be something we need to look at. If they're not in classes, then that could be a hit on us. Second of all, before you approve any um what we whatever we want to call it, sign out, block out, whatever we decide to call it, you definitely need to go through the I'm a big checklist guy. You got to go through the checklist that you are 100% sure all requirements for graduation have been met. I mean, I think at least two people should look at that. Probably your the guidance counselor, that

062um and the principal or vice principal, whoever. >> Are we talking about you say are are complete? That's assuming everybody's a senior. We're only allowing them to block out when they're senior. Well, see, I I got a problem with that. As of right now, we could change it. Right. Okay, the reason for that, there are cases where kids not not on track. I'm thinking if There there'd be a possibility maybe as a junior, I don't know. I wouldn't entertain that. But, um it's going to be a sore spot It's going to give us a black eye if we allow a kid to do that and somehow it's missed that they didn't have a music credits. And some of these things used to be fairly hidden. You you'd have you'd have a some Tom was good

063at it. He he could look through it and I used to tell him to look at it and he was great looking at it. But, uh then I had wonderful guidance department that they were good at it, too. But, we still every now and then uh their senior year, you'd miss something and you'd have to rush them in there to get some, you know, clarification. The biggest thing that Rosemary and I discussed is I'm really looking at developing that kid. I don't want bad habits starting their senior year or senioritis. If they're not doing something productive, then they don't need to be dismissed. I'm telling you. You know what? Y'all don't disagree with that. >> Well, yeah, we we have so many we have a mentality that all they've worked so hard for 11 and

064a half years, or 13 in my case. 12 and a half. They need some downtime. Well, downtime, I've seen it. It equates when they go to if they're going to college, they've got those same bad habits not wanting to put a full day in wherever they go. >> Or if they're going to a job, either way. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I I don't want to develop And I tell parents I you know, you've done it 20 years in administration, you see it. And then they go to college and they flunk out because they don't go to class. Now, that may or may not help. But, it's to be thought about. It's to be thought about. And the way that we we held it handled it if we had a first semester situation, I don't care

065if they had a job or they had a uh college class. They had to bring in proof that they were still attending. >> That's what I like, Mr. Godfrey. >> Still attending or they were still working. I think that's >> happens and they're not, then sorry. They had to come back, correct? >> come back. I think to me that would solve a lot of the issues if we decide we're going to go in, you know, a more uh proactive way of letting them block out. I think that's Yeah, I think that's an important part. I do, too. But, what that does, that if they're doing what they're supposed to, then that's what we expect of them. That's not a bad habit. But if they're doing if they begin it and then they don't show up,

066then that's a bad habit. Well, Well, what are you I mean, you can you can request that they provide you with a pay stub every two weeks. I did, but that wasn't in policy. Well, that's what I'm saying. The policy didn't say that. Or you could show you could be required to provide updates on your college class. >> classes and your grades. >> professor or your grades or something. So so we can monitor it and know that you're doing it. But I I just told Mr. Tone that, you know, when I went to college, my classes were Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And I I did it hard to make sure that I was on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday cuz I wanted Tuesday and Thursday off. But that was just me. I mean, I I was

067successful at it. I also have friends that did Tuesdays and Thursdays and didn't get through the first semester. So I mean, you know, that's that's part of human nature that I'm not sure we can fix, but we can make sure that the kids are doing what we're asking them to do. I think that's the key is that we need we we need to revisit the policy and make some changes and you know, holding them accountable to be able to show that yes, I am in school or yes, I am going to work. And not that they because I know even when I was at at Princeton High School as an assistant however many years ago that was, we would have students who would sign up for a college class, bring us in all the information

068and then you'd hear a couple months into it that they had withdrawn from the class. And so now they're just out and probably just sitting at home and we don't need that. So Well, I mean, I like that idea. >> would that work though if let's say I go out and get a job and either I get fired or I quit halfway through. You're going to bring me back to school and into a class that's half done? No, what what I'm talking about is if this is when we had a one semester two semester situation that worked for the block because then they would want to continue it second semester. You know. And we have, you know, one semester classes. We still have several. That's how they end up with their credits because you only

069did six periods a day for the four years, that's 24. They wouldn't have enough of what we require anyway. So, we do have semester long classes. >> them jobs? What's that called? Hardship? I think that's one of the That's one of the the check-offs that it can be a hardship. >> not working Yeah. It must not be much of a hardship. No, it's not too much. Absolutely. No, I really I like how you did that. >> I had on my list was are we looking at first and second semester? I guess we are, is that Does this Does this impact absenteeisms any? Oh, I think definitely. I really do. I mean if we let them block out, as we're calling it, are they counted as absent? No. No, no, no. No, Mandy, that would not

070be an absence. Okay. I didn't want to get caught up in that we do this and then the state department says that's an absence. Okay, good. It might actually help actually. If you take the bunch of classes you don't want to come to, you're probably going to miss more. There's value in work. >> see it in here. Okay. When you're 17 years old. That's kind of the other thing, since we're no longer on a block schedule, the one first and second semester, um there would be different considerations there since they're taking some they're now taking classes through the year, correct? Um when you make your master schedule up for seniors, you may want to make sure that you've got If you anticipate our kids are going to be doing that, you'd probably want to those

071kids there in the morning. So, those classes that are really They've got definitely want to have some of those blocks of time in the morning rather than having like your civics class your last block of the day. Then that would really so again you need to plan ahead for these scenarios if you're building level principal. >> Well, I think at the end of the day if we we make any changes in policy a lot of it's going to go back to us as far as the schools with the administrators, counselors, teachers that we're following those kids pet plans. So that we're looking at each kid individually. You know that all has kind of come about with scheduling Mr. Bailey went with me several places that you know you can't just do mass scheduling and just

072dump everybody into the pot. You do have to do more individualized scheduling with kids because it at this point in time there's so many different things they can do the online classes that they go to the media center and set and do an actual online class you know or they come over here and they do dual credit. We have a lot of different directions that kids can go but I think it's all about the planning. I would question that also letting them block out first thing versus last because I I have a hard time imagining that many productive things are going on during first period. I agree with that. >> obviously they're not working cuz I mean they're not they're not going to go work for an hour and leave and they're probably unless they're

073doing an online class but they're probably not going to be doing it at 8:00 in the morning. I just I I can tell you and this is on me. When I was here at the tech center we had a student that we saw going out the side door that just leads to the side sidewalk of nowhere and somebody said Mr. Mitchell he's leaving and so I start chasing the kid out the door and they're going to Subway and I get over to Subway and they tell me that well they're having a meeting and they they needed him to be at this meeting of course I get into the child labor law and he's got to be at school and we're not you know this isn't okay and blah blah blah. I got back to the

074school he wasn't our student. That was on me. That's funny. So, did did Am I Am I correct or incorrect in remembering that that the state is now allowing younger people to work? Did that legislation pass? I know the bill the bill was proposed. It lowered it lowered the age by 1 year. >> I think you can 15 now. But I I obviously we're not talking about Go ahead, Um I was just going to say that that now in the mornings like now we um when I was here for Christmas we had some students who were um working a second shift in a welding shop. Oh. And so they weren't getting home until I think they were working in Virginia and it's probably 30-40 minute drive for them to be getting at home. So, we

075allowed them to block out in the mornings so they could get more rest after work that day. Well, maybe we could have some exceptions to the policy if they have documentation, but I feel like offering first period is encouraging not productive behavior. In general, but that's a good point. Yeah, thank you for Yeah, that's a good point though. The ones that I've been aware of are college classes. Most of the time when they're doing college classes though they're doing it virtually. It's usually self-directed. They're not live instruction. I mean, there could be some, but I don't know that part. I just know I've talked to him and said, "Well, why are you coming in late?" And he says, "Well, I had a college class at 8:00." So, I think one of the first things we

076should do that might be wise is talk to our administrators and say, "Okay, guys, gals, what do you think about the changes that are being talked about? How would you approach it? What's the way to administer this? What should we be looking for? Uh just those those ideas that that because I again I believe that that work has value and work in the you know as I look at my adult kids go back I go if we could go back in time you'd have a job 16 and you'd work until you got out of school and we'd have a farm and they'd be dealing with pigs and cows. Um And and I like Because it has value. >> to see that WITH YOUR TWINS. LIKE TO SEE THEM WITH SOME COWS. >> YOU DO UNDERSTAND

077THEY don't have dogs because we made them take care of the dogs. So they would have no pigs and cows. Um So uh I think that we need to know because things are different you know as I like to say to people when they talk about school I go COVID changed everything guys. It's a completely different world now. I mean it really did. So >> Well it's obvious the schedule I mean the policy needs to be changed just from the name of it. Well I think it says attendance exemption. Yeah. I think so. >> Bottom line yeah. On I just read it 18A 181A it that you just have to be a have finished eighth grade. It doesn't have an age requirement in the the WVDE policy. It just says eighth grade. Well The labor

078is 14 and Yeah. Yeah. Right. It it Our goal is to get them graduated with a skill. Uh we don't want this to interfere with that but there's also merit to people that want to start early. I mean I still think that that there there are some jobs if you do you learn real quickly I would rather get a skill and not have to do this the rest of my life. Um So let's take a look at it and see what we can come up with but I I would like to hear from the administrators and what they what how their views are. All right Mr. Hammond your goals. You got a copy over there? >> Yeah we do. We have it. I was just making sure I didn't know if you had that. Put

079some things together and uh if you flip through those first pages, that's all the academics from the uh GSA to the beginning of the year, middle of the year. We don't have the end of the year yet. If you flip through those first few pages, that's the growth there. I don't I don't know if you want me to go through each one of those pages, Mr. Prudich, if you do. I I think if board members have questions, they'll ask. >> Okay. So, you have the middle of the year. You see the growth. Even the math, there's some um negatives that goes down every once in a while on certain areas if you go through those, but we constantly have that updated. We also have that on our data wall in the board office to keep

080looking at. But, you have that clear up to the last page. You got the beginning of the year, middle of the year. You have Mastery Prep. There's some discussion. As you know, we had Horizon. Uh there was some uh inconsistency with uh leadership on Horizon. Some did it, some didn't. Again, I can't uh work on uh monitor that. We've got Mastery Prep. We're now looking at Bluebook. Possibly even uh Khan Academy's free. Bluebook is free. Maybe we can do something differently with uh with uh Bluebook or Khan Academy. But, the Mastery Prep, again, you have some that loved Horizon. But, again, all we're trying to do is have data cuz the GSA doesn't give you that till just the end of the year and having something to monitor where kids are at. Again, the whole

081reason I have the wall up there is to know where we're at, uh where we need to go and what the data shows. Um it's like uh Promise Scholars. I think if you look at our Promise Scholars, uh they're low. Always looked at Bridgeport being about 40% of their seniors getting Promise. We're shooting around 16, 17. Montcalm's lower. I think again, as a principal, they ought to know where they're at. I think we did have some areas where they didn't know how many Promise Scholars they had. So, we're just doing those things and keeping that That's why I have that wall. It is not about me. I think I am mentioned on there about Board of Governors. I have asked to take my name off and uh they fought me and kept Board of Governors.

082I'm on that data wall on that, but uh again, we added last night. We put McLanahan training on there. As you know, it it it's got attacked a little bit about uh in social media about why we did the McLanahan leadership training. We have service personnel going to go over some McLanahan training this uh bus drivers are going to do some training on difficult people. I think anytime you can do anything to get better, and when you're in a group, you're always going to have a few people that are disgruntled. I think what we're seeing now is just a few people that you guys are getting hit on some of these things that are are ridiculous. We're getting hit about safety and some of those things. I think we're on those those things, but do

083we need to do more? Um got criticized a little bit about the the threat we had the other day, whether it was a uh mass shooter or bomb threat. Initially come in as a bomb threat, but they're now stating in safety issues on a bomb threat. If we have a bomb threat here, they're saying to stay here. Don't leave outside because the pattern has been shootings outside and all those things, but that that's I got off a little bit on that just mainly because of passion and and what I deal with every day. But when you go to all the data, if anybody has any of the academic data, again, as Mr. Purdy said, COVID has changed a lot. And again, it's changed a lot more with our I think our our adults and what

084we're expecting from parents and and staff and doing those things. We've more discipline issues than I've had in my career that since after COVID and doing some things there. But Mastery Prep, you go there, uh you got the beginning of the year, the middle of the year, we don't have the end of the year yet. That's what I guess the hard part is is my time my goals are done. Uh You need my goals done before uh June 30th. It's not a contract year, that's why we haven't done it yet. So, that's the way this rolls in the policy there. Right. If you look at those core missions and foundation and culture of the other pieces there, Dr. Bowling put a really nice chart. I think this shows it better than anything we have from

085the state. I've got a stack of things and what's hard is when you come over here and and you try to present to you all and and you got everything in your office and and doing stuff, but we have the uh the whole manual. Uh that you guys got from the state department. I'm just looking here flipping through. >> On the CSI, they are meeting. For example, uh Bluefield Intermediate School, you know, we have a principal that's on leave. We've got a former special ed director that's acting the principal. We had to had your data there, come here, doing those things. We've got state department from uh Michelle Leftwich and a group meeting with our staff, doing all those things. So, that accountability is held big time there with title one schools. Is that fair

086that the high schools aren't involved because they're not title one schools, but that that accountability piece has to come from us. If you look at that, that's a continuing improvement. Uh Orange Frog got hit just on social media. I got everybody sends me everything. I don't probably need to turn my phone off and get that Orange Frog has been hit. I like to see that the hey, what have you done since uh Orange Frog? Man, Dr. Phil Peck, Mrs. Suttle, Mrs. Rife, they are Monday, we've got a we've got a potluck thing going on and uh you know, I was in Walmart. There's or not Walmart, I was in uh Cracker Barrel. There's a big green frog. We brought it over here in our our our tech center, painted a painted that green frog orange

087and it's it's awesome, but I the stigma, the the attitude, everything going on in the office is you know, you're always going to have somebody that uh is not happy. And but I think I want to thank those ladies for what they've done there. We've had other people that we had that we wanted to get training. For some reason they they had some reasons that they they couldn't do it. That was that was a little pivot backwards, but we bent and moved on and did some things there. We had people go to the training that we had to pivot cause of their their workload or their comfort comfortability of comfort level doing those things. So we did that. But Orange Frog has been a success. It is research based. It is all over what I

088go to national conference. Orange Frog you also piggyback if you look at the time. I've got those all written down if you needed to spend time and go through my calendar when we did all six levels with Mike McClelland hand in the small group. We do have a group of training. I think it is April is it 18th or 19th coming up? I'm not sure. I'm pivoting on that. We Can I interrupt just a minute? There's there's a People need to understand we have a restricted budget and a lot of money is given to us for training. Am I correct about that? >> That's correct. >> We have to use it for training. We can't use it to build a building or to pay salaries. So we train and we train and we train and

089we train. That's what we do with that money. Yeah. This is train This is training. So I I think that that people need to understand that that we're obliged by federal and state law to train our staff and that includes the quality Uh and we've come up with some what I think to be some fairly good approaches in how to train. You know, initially I was looking at Orange Frog and I went, "Nah, I don't know." But it seems to be a really good program that has benefit. Uh and uh I think it's what you do. You you you keep working with people. Um You know, there's a the the military calls it esprit de corps. That's part of that's part of being in a good organization is working together and sitting down and and

090training uh on issues that are not just about how you do your job, but how you interact with others, how you interact with the public, how you're uh addressing issues that come before you. That's all part of training. Now, it if we don't use that money for training, we don't use it for anything else. We just don't have the training. >> Or it could be one of those things where you use use it or lose it. So, I So, I I'm I'm I've done this long enough to not get distressed by people that are running for office talking about things that they don't clearly understand. I mean, that's just the bottom line. You know, we >> have training funds, we're going to use them. If you don't like the training from the outside looking in,

091I don't know what to tell you. I know my son works at in private industry. And um but fairly competitive industry. And they do these things all the time. And believe you me, if if a corporation did not find the value in having activities to bring some cohesion and um stress relief, etc., etc., then I guarantee they wouldn't do it. But they do. I mean, I I've been I've myself have been to several of these >> Don't worry yourself. uh activities. And they're fun. They they they and you know, do things that uh involve their family. I don't know, you know, that we're able to we do a little bit of that, but uh um Well, I know right here we have >> imagine being miserable in your job and not trying to as As

092a management issue, trying to make things better. So, that's the way I look at And we have local, you know, just right here, local businesses. A and P used to do the big family picnic every year, and and the churches do things to make the people want to come back. Uh We We do that, too, here Mercy County Schools. We have a county end of the year picnic, and uh and you know, I could tell you maybe some that don't show up. That's probably the the complaints you all sometimes get, but I just uh I've got my leadership meetings. I've got my uh faculty senate. I've got uh from the union meetings uh with uh Daniel Hodges, and and and uh Dr. Atkins, Mrs. Mitchell are attenders with me. Communicate with Dr. Phil Peck on

093some of the things with the Service Personnel Association, doing some stuff they are asked. So, trying to do some more of those things that you all asked me that I've done. I haven't done my student uh uh advisory in a long time, but to tell you the truth, and and not to to criticize you all, but that these expulsions and time, when you look at our time schedule and doing expulsion meetings and and preparing those and what with Dr. Bowling and the time there, that that takes a lot away from a lot of things we're doing. So, if we ever want to recruit reconsider those and doing something that way, I would so appreciate it. That's up to you all. >> talking about it for 6 months and don't seem to have a plan. No.

094So, we'll >> I keep asking. No, I mean, about having the hearings and and your all's time. I I understand that perfectly. >> I talked to Jeff Kelly yesterday, and he said the other day he he'd like to submit a law where the board is not involved with the the expulsions and doing that. And if you, you know, you heard that at his meetings that uh they have a hearing exam or doing those things, but I'm I that's just that's another piece >> from the State Department? >> That's correct. Yeah. I'm not taking advice from Jeff. Got you. Got you. But with these with these uh with the information I got there the community stakeholders the meetings I will I will challenge anybody that who's who's attend who attends outside events and who's there evenings

095those things I'm I'm trying to be as visible as possible can but I've put some things together there. I've been going through my calendar Mr. Bailey said a minute ago don't go looking for all of it but I've been going through my calendar on some things there Dr. Boeing put some stuff together. The academic piece along with the two superintendents and Mrs. Harrison's put a lot together with uh our academic stuff so if I can answer anything >> That's what I was going to ask you the board you've got the packet do you have any specific questions about the goals? >> We I just want to give you an update too you guys mentioned in in and Melissa Clements would be available if if you need her and we did meet with the Princeton PD

096about working back with Princeton High School. They do not want to put a pro officer in there honestly and I don't want to go on record but I will say it anyhow they are concerned about who they could put in there and work with us as a pro officer. That's the truth. And but they don't want to put an officer in our school but they want our outside our after school activities versus the sheriff's department. So I think speaking on your behalf I'd like for him to do that along with Bluefield give him an office and say you got a place in our place anytime but that they're not they're short-handed too so once we get that figured out that's a headache. That's the law enforcement's got the issue of of needing people out on

097the street and >> but they Princeton does want our evening but I said would you work with us and say give us somebody in our schools like you had before but they said they didn't but again uh Chief I'm going blank. Woodard >> Woodard thank you was amazing you guys you know I did we've met twice along with his chief deputy. Uh Uh, I do see some games and maybe that's not even fair, but some controversy with the sheriff. Uh, other issues on there with different departments. You see that. That's a shame. Uh, but I do see that when we're trying to work with that with the whole county. Some issues there, but uh we're working on those things and uh I would love to have uh Sergeant Clemmons oversee the whole county versus being

098in Princeton. But right now we needed her there, but she's kind of moving herself out and we can find more uh retired officers to be hired, but again that's a budget, too. >> Well, we've tried. >> And that may be an issue there when we look at that uh piece that the state department's cutting some of that step 7B that we use for our TISes and our technology and all that. Everybody's cutting and uh just want to share that. But anything I can answer, I'll be glad to. I I feel comfortable that I I've met your goals and if not, I would I would like to give you any every any evidence if you have any questions. >> your the chart with the community stakeholder stuff, that's pretty informative. Shows a lot of contacts. And

099chronic absenteeism, as we discussed at the board meeting the other night, it seems to be improving. And significantly. >> And and members of the board and and Mr. Crouch and I talked I don't know whether it's been probably 3 years ago it's about your opening remarks and I started putting that together. I got all those that I go over and you know, as mentioned that maybe we didn't realize we had a uh 80 80 87 over, Dr. Philbeck. Eight Yeah. I had it in here twice. Uh also, if you look at our minutes, somebody may question our board minutes saying, "Boy, they're too detailed." I do that for the reason of documentation and I want to thank Dr. Bowling publicly that she puts those all together. I've got all our data. If Jeff Kelly needs

100to look or the state department from his office of accountability to look and say, "What are you doing 2322?" Wetzel County does 23-22. Ritchie does that. That's a policy where they want to make sure you're focused on academics. That's why we do that. It's stated there. So, if you look at all what we're putting out, our goals are well documented. I printed off uh Dr. Bowling looked at me yesterday. I said, "I want all our board minutes with the 23-22 in my updates." She cut and pasted that within probably 30 minutes, maybe? And has all that. If you want that, that's huge. I love to highlight and go through that and say, "Look, we're knocking out a whole lot on academics and and accountability of students and what we're doing there." And uh we'll continue

101to do some stuff. Legal updates, you guys got I think you're up to par on all those. We did uh have success with the Robinette versus the Board of Education. You got other issues that I I I did communicate with Dr. or President Prichard recently on another issue, but other than that, I think we're all pretty much caught up on a lot of those things that I'll continue to update you on. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Questions, board members? Ernie. It's for Ernie. No, and then I know I'm sorry. >> The numbers tell us one thing. And then we've got like ELA and elementary or and math, you've got schools that have a percentage and it says whether whether it's up or down. You've got schools one here that's down 26% from whatever the reporting period

102was. Is that's are are they you're aware of these and they're trying to do things to improve on those? We don't have any schools that went down in proficiency. It may be uh Mr. Bailey, the the students that are red or yellow went down, which is what we want. I don't have it looked exactly. >> this tells me. Like, I'd have to I would have to look at that. >> instance, it's percent proficient change. Yeah, the the one that's got elementary and math on it. Oh, you're you're talking about GSA. I thought you Sorry, I thought you're talking about >> What page you on there? It's the third page in that packet of your packet. >> That's the summative exam. That's not the Yes, Mr. Now, I do know what you're talking about. I thought

103you were referring to I-Ready. Um yes, on the GSA last year, and that's what the first pages of this um document is. Uh we did have a couple schools that had some great struggles um in a couple of areas, and we have from day one in August been specifically targeting that and supporting those schools um that had that issue last year. >> you did. I was just curious. You've got And I'm sorry. I No, you've got you know, more than half are on the positive side, but around half of them are on the negative side, and um Well, I I I Well, you got to acknowledge that some of the ones that are on the negative side went from really high to still high. We It's hard as as I've warned my my lovely niece,

104that when you set the bar really high, you got nowhere to go but down a lot of times because you >> had that conversation. That's a good point Mr. Prudish made. I'll I'll go back. We last year um we started a new math series that was quickly unanimously selected by the elementary um curriculum committee and the middle school curriculum committees independently that none of us are involved with, of course. And we have a lot of confidence in it. It goes along and aligns with our I-Ready formative assessment, but in year one of a new series, there is a time period that people have to learn uh new curriculum, new processes, and um you know, I talked to them after we got these results, and some schools did drop, and some a little bit, and and

105on the chart that I shared last fall, um Mr. Prudish is correct that some of them your they fail five points but they're still 10 points above state. Um as a school and so you know that's that's a little bit different than a school that failed uh that were below state and and still failed five points or whatever. And then we have one that you referred to that we're really concerned about but >> my observation was unfair because I I didn't know what all the correlation >> Your observation's based on what this says. So that's that that's very fair. Um but we were aware of that. I did talk to curriculum associates because we always want to be plus. You know what I mean and and we did have uh strong growth in ELA and

106science on the GSA but we dropped 0.9% as a district on math um overall. And so they said you know it usually takes uh you know two to three years when you get a new curriculum to see that strong growth. We had a huge change from our red to yellow and that's the students that are two or more below to one grade level below. If you're yellow you're right there even if you're on the bottom of yellow and we saw that shift and so they told me two to three years. I told them we want two. Um I think that we do have a head start on that because we had starting working with mathematical mindsets and different things in advance of all of this. And we have some very strong uh math leaders that

107do training for for us. Um last earlier this week I was going to say last week but it was earlier this week. Uh two we have two teacher leaders that are on our uh elementary math curriculum committee and that's the Kim Yaya and Katie Carter. They actually went to Mullins Elementary and spent uh a day with uh a young lady there that this year's Milken winner and she is an elementary math teacher former high school math teacher. And um so just to let those great minds get together and then they'll pay that forward because they provide um training to our staff. But we do hope to see we're minus 0.9 last year and I we want to be in the positive territory obviously there and uh second year of this new curriculum we think that

108we'll get that but no I think those are all very fair questions. >> It would be nice if there was a way I've been sitting here thinking about the data wall. If you could print that large enough and put it in the the office of every school take a picture of it and then put a nice big size picture and put it in the because if I've learned anything about about nature in my life is is people get competitive. And they start going ah. We got to work on that and and it's not it's not to shame anybody. It it doesn't have to be stuck on the outside of the building. It's something that people can look at and you can put it in the the the staff uh conference room if you want to.

109It's it's just a it gives you a snapshot of where we are at any given time and it gives you a lot of information. Digital dashboard. There There you go. Yeah and we Okay so we share it with them by Dr. Bowen put it in it like kind of PowerPoint presentation that you got. We've been updating it and sending it out probably by half a year or whatever but it constantly update like we added three things to it yesterday. Well I guess I guess my point is is that the the the the administrator is going to see that but the faculty is probably not going to notice it. And if it's in only one location then they're not going to see well we're really moving the kids out of the red. We are being successful.

110We are moving them into yellow cuz again the first time I saw that you guys had to spend about 25 minutes explaining to me that that seeing minus in red was a what what you wanted to do. Seeing minus in yellow is what you wanted to do. And uh because it's hard you know when you're just looking at it you're like no I don't I don't understand why that's a good thing. And we've made we've made a lot a lot in that area and actually had the conversation at a meeting in there yesterday afternoon that, you you know, the long-term goal and this is something that that I heard last year at a at a WSA meeting that, you know, that percentage of red should be 20% or lower. And, you know, the the the

111yellow are kids that again, one grade level below they're right there. You know, we're never going to have 100% green or even 100% green and yellow. The long-term goal that's set for us is 75%. Um in 2035. But, we are right now just looking at the county for already on that wall and talking with an outside person I was meeting with, you know, on on one side we're 30% red, on the other side 27% talking about ELA and math at middle of the year. So, we're inching closer to that and and that wasn't as true, you know, just a few years ago. So, moving those reds and and that's what happened a lot last year um on the math side that we saw we're filling those foundational gaps and getting them closer to where they

112need to be and it takes time to get them there, but uh we think we'll see those results this year. Right. Right. Ms. Caudill just came in, but she's been working a lot with FASFA and the GEAR UP that we just put FASFA on the wall uh yesterday just what our growth there and uh you know, I'll I'll shout out to Anna Lilly. She's over the 60%. And that's a goal they want all the schools and that's what the state puts, but we we got that. We got last year's data. There's a couple that need to meet for a few, but you all know when if you had kids you filled out FASFA that's uncomfortable and that's, you know, to do some of those things to do that stuff, but that's all part of it.

113We're just trying to look at any data to show where we're at and and if we go through our social media from Instagram, uh X and Facebook uh from Mrs. Harrison and Dr. Bowling backing up sometimes on on we've got our whole story written and we're trying to do more of that and we're sharing with the state department every time just personally to tell them if they're watching to wear them out to show them what we're doing in Mercer County public schools and trying to do that, but any anything I can answer. I I think and I'm only up here because of uh what these people do. I do push Mrs. Mitchell and Dr. Atkins pretty good and um but if I look at these people with uh the orange frog that they did this

114on their own Dr. Phil Peck didn't have any time to do that. Mrs. Huddle didn't have any time to do any of that. Mrs. Amber Life pivoted and and and then they're doing that, but they're doing a follow-up training cuz we had how many people not do it? And they've got it scheduled in a in in the next couple days and it's all, you know, it's I've been through Sources of Strength. It's a it's a it's a uh research-based positive whatever, but what they've did in their game and these ladies are trained now to go do whatever and after some time they may be able to do something and and and benefit it personally on that to do those things there, but they're certified trainers that they went through very rigorous uh very rigorous uh

115thing. And I want to thank them for that, but they they've Dr. Bowling was looking for how many orange frogs was placed in the central office the other day? 10. And you found nine or you No, sir. I found 10. Get it right, all right. I was the first to find all 10. And just little things, you know, we we had to do a little activity and I I jumped right down just try to win anyhow, but we had a I you know, it was a Valentine's and I did a orange bear frog and whatever and I got a I've got a orange frog gift and a little trophy on my windowsill that I was pumped to have that and but you know, Monday Monday we got lunch and it's a potluck everybody bringing in.

116I I was requested I said something about wings from Angelo's and they said bring Doobie bread, but that's a killer for you know, if everybody has that. So all my list Do you be bread out? night I thought I need to fill that out and this is what I got in my office. I I I said, I got to put that on there and fill it out and I thought, I got to put how do I spell Do you be bread? And I went to put it in and Dr. Bowling already had me registered. So, I I just FYI, that's just what I do when do those things. >> No, if you you take butter and parmesan cheese, you can do it on a shoe and they eat it. I mean, it's Yeah, and I'll

117say this publicly on the record, I do have to get Do you be bread when my wife is home. I've got to bring that home and I don't know if I ever ate it, but I I'd rather eat 24 wings instead of wasting all that dough, but uh but I I don't know if anybody else wants to add, but I I'm I'm comfortable with where we're at with Mercer County schools. I I just can't stand the negativity cause of enrollment. Now we got that black cloud over us that we've got to cut and people are saying, you know, finance issues that they're saying, you know, we're in a steering committee the other day and had that about, you know, and then I I say, why did you say we have finance trouble and then you

118create something cause you call them out. They're all right to put stuff on social media and say, we're in financial difficulties. No, we're not. And I'll I'll do that and I'll continue to do that, but our staff is doing that, too, and none of them deserve that from Mrs. Wellman, her staff, from special ed, from personnel, but we're down. Soon as we were down, I was deeply moved of it's it's it's upsetting cause you know what's coming down the trail of cuts. And we I think we've got four hearings or three. Three. And they are minor type issues. I'll say it out loud, but uh you'll have those and we'll we'll move forward, but out of that many employees, uh that's that's special. Okay. >> People people complain on social media about anything and everything.

119Just to all topics in the world. So, my my policy is always to do the right thing, do the best job you can and you can't control other people say. >> No, no, and you just want to protect the system and that's part of my nature and then we're just protecting. Well, Yeah. But they don't. For sure. Oh, no one is willing to accept that they were wrong. Right. Oh, you're right about that. Definitely not in publicly, right. And if you look at some of these people that make these comments, they don't even live here. They live in other states. >> Yeah, I mean some people just just troll to make negative comments. I guess their stuff I I guess the difference between me and you guys is I've been doing politics for a long

120time and this is what people do. And you just have to kind of I've told people quit sending me stuff. I'm not going to respond to it. I'm going to talk about what we've done and how well we've done it and how good the people that work for us are and I tell my children all the time I want to live I have to live in the world that I live in not the one I want to live in. So, you have to deal with this. It's just the way it is and and the the attacks are on the people that work for the school system. They're not directed at the people running for office, which really disturbs me. Cuz I don't do the personnel job. I don't do special ed and I don't administer

121buildings. So, they're directing it at the wrong people. They need to talk about what I'm doing wrong. I'm a big boy, I'll take it. But it really frustrates me when they go after I If I hear one more time we're in financial trouble, I might just have a mini stroke. Yeah, that's what we're doing. We are one of the soundest financial counties in the state of West Virginia, period. If you can show otherwise, you need to present the evidence and not just say the words. I've seen absolutely no data whatsoever to support their conclusions. And that's fine. Make statements based on fact, not opinion. And it will be a different conversation. Okay? So, every year since I've been here, we've been a reduction in force. Am I wrong about that? Have we ever had an

122instance where we hired more people the next year? Because we lose students, we lose staff. >> population. >> It's just that simple. That's the way the world is. It's the same thing every year. Same same way, same everything. The only difference this year is we lost students. And we lost some dollars that support those students. And so, we have to make adjustments based on that. So, this is not a new process for Marshall County Schools and you know, even before me, it wasn't. And I've been in this position for 14 years. Well, it's not a position for all 55 counties. I mean, it's the same position for all. And people who make these comments have no idea. There's one county because they have so much gas money. Yeah. I mean, they're spending like $45 million

123on an elementary school. I I don't know how you spend $45 million on an elementary school cuz we build elementary schools. What are they adding? Cuz we got some pretty nice elementary schools. Like, what did you do to add that extra $20 million to that building? A fountain? No. Uh but but the the the the criticism should be directed at the board, not the faculty and staff. If there's if there's issues, they need to direct it at the people that are are making policy decisions. I was interested in the you know, the history of our population and things like that. And I'd looked it up. 88 or 89, I was riffed. And uh survived. Still here. I got tickled. One of my working cohorts, he cuz I've told the story Gene Lee went over there

124and it looked like Whac-A-Mole cuz he walked Any of you knew Gene. Um he went over to the board on my behalf and it looked like you see these heads go up and seen Gene and they go back down. But in anyway, uh 74,000 people in Mercer County in 1980. 74,000. Um estimated in 2024 was 57,000. When you think about that and I'm going to say not only that, but keep in mind if you look at the demographic of our age our I'm sure I can remember as a kid the neighborhood was full of kids. We get out We had no problem finding somebody to play. There was always always someone. You That's not true anymore. We're an elderly and becoming more elderly uh society. Every year. >> We In our training the other night,

125and I will say this the other counties are looking to us. What are you doing? How did you do that? What What How are you handling that? And I have said this for years. We don't follow, we lead. And that's why we have people that that are considered top of their game. I know Dr. Phil Pick was it last year that you were the the HR person of the year. I don't know what the title exactly for the state was, but that's they basically Say it one more time. Was that Was that the queen of personnel? Is that what that was? I I I just think it it it reflects well on Mercer County schools when other people are looking at us and saying, "What are you doing?" The state department says, "We need to

126pilot a program. Where do they look?" Well, let's send it to Mercer County schools. You know, I Do we have issues? There is no human uh run system in the world that doesn't have issues because we're human and we're flawed and we do the best we can. Uh but we do pretty good and I I I I as I like to say, I like to go to these state board things because I like to brag and you know, we're all competitive and I like to look at the other counties go, "Did you see how many kids we had go up state in the robotics program?" Or how has your HR director ever been your you you you do that because you like to. So, anyway, I think right now would be a good time to

127take a little break. >> break. Uh so, we're going to recess for just 5 minutes and then we're going to come right back. That was good. Okay. >> Mhm. >> Here's another question on that thing. Sorry. We're not live. We're live. We're live. Okay. No. You're talking about something that's not It's not on the agenda. So we can't talk about it in public meeting. No, we're we're we're back out. We're back. for the chaos. So the next the next item on the agenda is the Jason Learning and McTigue MOU. After the session, I think a lot of it started having thoughts and questions about the whole thing. So Just the logistics of the Yeah, the whole the whole deal. So explain to us a little more about what is proposed, how it's going to work.

128Well, what I can tell you is is that it's off the table now. We're we're not going to do it. It's going to require a lot of time that would take place. It would not be a cost to us. It would help us in the end. We would get something out of it. And that would help us with our adjacent program, but the amount of time that it will take for somebody to come in that will have to do the videos and put all this in place with us getting ready to start the you know, the renovations and expansions of the school. We just feel like it's too much and we would not be We would not be able to give one or the other our full attention. And so, um it you know, the

129exciting part was and this is why I know that um they were excited here was the fact that it would give our state our country We would have been the first school to work internationally with anybody, but at the same time we have to take care of what we're doing here before we venture out. So, >> asked, don't it? It was and we did look in it and we actually sent it to uh we sent the proposal to the uh State Department to Clinton, Burch, and Adam Keener. They reviewed it. We're okay with it. We sent it to one of our attorneys. He reviewed it. He was okay with it. He He did make a couple little tweaks that if we did an MOU that we would make sure the money would go back to

130the tech center since it was the tech center that would be doing it. But after a lot of conversation and the amount of time that it was going to take, we we've just decided now's not the time for that. We've got to get this done. >> going to be We're going to be busy. >> now. >> Yes, and we're going to be really busy. So, And I want to clarify that Dr. Farmer was very anxious about it. It wasn't her, but then again after some hearing some other issues from our office, worried about that. But again, Ms. Mitchell, Dr. Farmer all led that. And and Dr. Smalley has a connection through uh Somalia that she was spent some time over there. She had a they need to showcase some some tech programs and she that

131was a way to sell that. There was a worry about what we're going to do with the $50 we get from each one. Who's that going to go to? My thought was just give it back to the tech center. But hearing the disgruntle of it, we just exit and it wasn't worth it at this time. Again, that's where we did that and uh but Ms. Mitchell was in every meeting there. I get sometimes with my connection to Jason learning, but I'll go back on the record and say if you were with the Argonaut surprise the other day was >> Oh my goodness. >> very rewarding, so We had We had one student that was hugging everybody that was in the room. Anybody he could hug. And then we had a young lady and her mother

132that were crying and it but they were happy tears. It was It was a nice thing. It was. But we just feel like right now with what we're getting ready to start and as big as this is, we need to focus on air tags. Ms. Mitchell sent an email and a letter to Dr. Yes. >> Spaulding and and and told her that we were not going to move forward. There was this Not everybody was in a meeting and then some questions that at side barred and come around and all those things, so we just backed off. >> Okay. Well, we've got other big projects going on here, so. So, uh this one's probably going to take a little while, so I'm going to skip it for a minute and go to a couple of other

133things. Um snow days have come up. Um that that was requested by a board member to talk about the snow days. So, what's the current situation? So, let's start there. Mhm. That's Amy question. I have a little handout for you. I have a little handout for you. We need to get one with a necklace. You can just Yeah, I'll just Yeah, would that be good? This is a chart that shows all of our days off, what whether they be closed, reimagined, 2-hour delay. Thank you. And then oops, sorry, just ended. No, it's okay. And then it also shows you the days the dates that are made up. So, the ones in orange that you can see, those were the built-in snow days that we built into the calendar. So, that didn't affect the last day

134of school, the orange ones. The pink ones were the last ones that we took uh because that's spring break, those days were waived. And as you recall, we could not waive reimagine days. Um so, that's why we only got four instead of five days. And then April 6th, which is the Monday of spring break, was already scheduled to be um an OSC day for 261-day employees. So, we opted to to go ahead and close schools and offices that day and move that to the end of the year. So, that went to June 9th, and then we had three more snow days, February 23rd, February 24th, and then on St. Patrick's Day. Um and unfortunately, um you know, we we had just had so many snow days this year. Uh we waived what we could, we

135built in what we could. Uh but I do have an email out to the state department to uh Jordan McBride. I took a a look at all of our bank time. Um our county we have a tremendous amount of bank time. Um all of our schools do. We We require that every school have at least 30 minutes of um accrued time each day. Many of them have much more than that. Uh so, I I kind of looked at all of our schools and we have plenty to you know, to cover. However, state code only lets you use five days for accrued time. And we use those for our full day faculty Senate days. And five days is the limit. And I thought that since you know, the legislature just passed the the hours rule even

136though it doesn't take effect until July 1 of 27 that maybe there could be some flexibility to at least back up the students' day. We wouldn't be able to do the staff because the staff have to honor their 200-day contract. But if we could do something with that last day of school for students because as of right now their last day is June 15th and that's on a Monday. And we we haven't heard back from them yet. They are looking into it. They did tell me they were looking into it. Did you talk to them Ms. Harrison because I talked to Jordan and shared that with you but is that what you're She had emailed me for some more clarification and I ended up sending her this chart as well and explained to her that

137we did use accrued time for full day faculty Senate days. But for example, in in the email that I sent her just for example, Spanish Berg Elementary currently has seven and a half days remaining of equivalent instructional time. And that's taking out holiday parties, that's taking out a day days that they were closed because of flooding or electrical issues. Pike View Middle School has 19.6 days. And Princeton High School has 15.7 days. So we're well above the number of minutes each day for each grade level. Is Spanish Berg the lowest amount then? Yes. I think it has been for a long time from what I remember. Yes. What about Pike View? Did you say I don't have it on here but everybody is way above. I know we used to be a little bit below

138because of our geography our buses left No, Everybody I think Pike View ends up with about 50 minutes of bank time a day. Yeah, well, we we had to change that about 10 years ago because what that code requires is the the minimum bank time of 30 minutes is required for you to be able to do the 5 days with bank time and there were three or four schools and I remember it because Princeton Primary was one of the schools. Spanishburg was the the biggest. We were second that needed to expand the day and then that was was fixed but then when you do that with the elementary, then it adds more time. That's why the secondary schools have even more time even more but we we use it. If I can remember right, the

139issue was since we the middle school and the high school was right there beside each other, the travel time on the buses for some of our buses was really pretty long and we actually switched while I was there um to let the middle school pick up first and then we picked up second and I think that gave us maybe 5 more minutes but there was an issue with travel time at that time. If you if you look at the geo- geography of Mercer County, 6% is Pike View. is Pike View school district. Sure. You You If you go up to Cline's country, I don't know how long some of these kids are. I've We looked at it when we were doing the buses but it's still a tremendous amount of time those kids are on

140buses. Well, I know that at my time at Pike View Middle, they picked up the high school first. >> That's when we we switched because of that. Yeah. Amy, I had one question just because I've been asked and didn't know the answer. Whenever we got the waiver, did were the did those have to be used for spring break or could did we have a choice in the county to decide whether to give spring break back and go longer or vice versa? >> Well, the State Department didn't give us any guidance on how to use them. So, we just took the last days taken. >> Okay. And the last days taken were the spring break days. Okay. And then we added on one more day after we thought decision had been made. >> Mhm. But that

141was a snow day after all that had happened. Okay. >> All right. I just was That's That's kind of what I thought, but I don't want to tell people that was the case. >> and also if they want if we were to have just given them spring break and added it on to the end of the year, it would have been even later. No, I was talking about like I was asked could we have not had Could students have come during spring break but gotten out earlier at the end of the year? Was the question I was asked. And I didn't know if that was a county decision or a State Department decision. >> That was a county decision. >> Okay. Thank you. So, what's the plan? The faculty will be there Tuesday through Friday.

142That's correct. And Ms. Mitchell and I have Well, what we do this with every um faculty day without students what you know, the full day faculty Senate, the principals provide an agenda for those days of the things that that they're going to be working on at the school, the trainings, the collaborations, the professional development. They do have um different things that they're doing. I think that we have a couple departments offering some optional type pieces, but I have and and Rosemary probably does, too. Most of mine in already and they're doing an incredible job um using that time wisely. I know there's been some questions about uh some counties aren't requiring uh staff to do that, but the 200-day requirement is guidance from the State Department that all employees have to meet their 200 contract

143days. So, So, you say some counties are not having their There's >> staff coming in? There is some discussion out in the world on that, but if they're not doing it at spring break, then they'd be adding it to the end of the year just like Amy was saying. So, the staff would be there till past West Virginia Day. Or they would or they'd be in violation of of their contracts. So, is But it appears in social media that there's >> That's the social media thing that I I think Marion County That that one did gain some traction. And there's And there's one that's even closer. So, the trade-off was they tacked them on. Yes, sir. The one thing I wondered I wondered about this is the And I mean this might be a red

144herring, but the teachers aren't getting paid on snow days. I mean Correct? Correct. Um and if if Yeah. If if that's so important, would there be an opportunity to ask the teachers on snow days if they would come in and work and then be able to I know it'd probably have to be the all or none. No, we we couldn't do that because they have to make that day up. So, they would have be have to work again outside an additional contract day if they worked on a snow day. What are they doing during spring break? What are What are they doing? That's the agendas that that the principals sent to us. We have training, collaboration, data review. They they're doing a lot and then uh Dave Rose also provided for the transportation department what

145what they're doing and it's just a great opportunity for them to be able to do a lot of things and get a lot of things done that they normally don't have time to do. But we do have very detailed agendas from them. It's it's uh well done. If they came in on snow days, there wouldn't be time to make it up to them. Well, they have to make that day up anyway. >> Right. I think your question I think your part of it is is because because you have to do the 180-day instruction, but the state superintendent waived that. And that's the difference. She's allowed to do that. And that's why it's that's why it's different. That you're They still have to perform that 200-day contract. So, that's the loophole of why they're coming in

146and and doing that. That's the that's the waiver part of it. So. I can't wait till hours. Cuz we can do so much cool stuff with that. Uh so. Can't wait. Um It just is I understand from the teachers it's important to get a vacation in. I know years ago we didn't have spring break. And I know people invest money but and I hate to say it but you know we do have some personal days which when I was a young teacher we didn't really even have you know that. Yeah. So. Well, and I wouldn't hope there'd be much push back from anyone if they did use them especially when you have money invested in a vacation. Yeah. I mean I think it'd be easier for everyone if they missed took personal days when there

147are no students involved there because then you don't have to worry about subs and all that, you know. Okay. Um I I'm jumping around a little bit but I'm trying to hit things that I think will go fairly quickly. The financial secretary survey results which we have. I would note that in a in a meeting with uh Senator Grady, Senator Tabacco, Senator escapes me. Two delegates. We specifically talked to them about carving out a new position in the code called sec financial secretary. And they all thought it was a good idea. I don't even think a bill was introduced to do it. So. Um So, you have the results in front of you and there seems to be a >> Thank you, Mr. Smith. So, questions? Thoughts, comments? I mean, that is that I understand

148that we're constrained by law, that's the problem. >> I I understand that, but I also Look at this money things I live, the um during certain times of the year and I'm not I just worked at the high school. I know 100% I'm positive that those are some of our financial secretaries, they had to work outside of their school day. Right. And um at that time I was would really like to have paid them got some overtime approved to pay those individuals. And a lot a lot of things on here uh on the comments, um my understanding I'm not so much as middle schools, but I know are true at the secondary level. And it has to do with constraints of, you know, to get you have to get the money done um in a

149certain time frame. Yep. And if you've got, say, you come in, you're the financial secretary and you don't get a sub for your front office person that day. Well, guess what? You You You still have to get that done at the end of the day. And so, how do you do it? You you work over. I know that whenever we have the winter our winter time um building checks we pay our head custodian to come in and do those checks on the weekends to avert a catastrophe like frozen pipes or things like that. And I looked at the I I The ones I've talked to weren't really I found I think 11 out of these were contracts should be extended. A couple I talked to weren't really in favor of that and I thought, well,

150it'd be hard to add pay unless you're working more. So, I I guess it's kind of like a a seesaw situation where you've got so much to do financially and you've got a limited time frame. So, the really the only way you're going to get it done is in some cases is to work extra. So, I think I think that uh maybe that's the only way out of this if we could look at that somehow as a county. Or you look at it through overtime sometimes. Since it's a a pay issue, Leslie isn't here, but it might be a personnel thing too, Crystal. What in in in some companies in private business, they can earn comp time. If you got stay stay 2 hours over the day, and you might be allowed to take take

151off 2 hours early at your own discretion or ask for it. Can you do that in in in state? You can do it, but what's problematic is you're saying that they don't have enough time to do that as well. I understand that. And later, they may not be as beneficial as it would be for something instant like overtime. I'll be honest with you. I mean, there there is no set rule about overtime. You know, I think historically, we've kind of left it open to as long as you get approval from your administrator and then your immediate supervisor is aware of that as well, then in fact, you have the flexibility to have overtime, but overtime is one of those things that you don't get every day. It's one of those things that happens when you're

152in a busy season or um not just because you didn't finish your job because you're chit-chatting at lunchtime or on your planning or that's not even relevant cuz they're teachers, but uh you you were chit-chatting for some at your desk for too long with someone. And so uh I don't think there has been a hard and fast rule about overtime, but we also have to balance that with the fact that if we're given so much overtime, do we need a part-time position? Do we need a full-time position? And so we have to weigh all of those things moving forward. Has digitizing some of the things that financial secretaries do like the sports uh and having they don't have to count that money anymore. I'm assuming that's helped some. The the financial part we we've definitely

153moved into a more modern with type of >> ticket sales and things like that. >> with ticket sales, but also the purchasing the purchasing process. We're doing a lot of things that are no longer paperwork. I I I hope that's helped and it is there is there a way to title the position a different position that would give them a boost in pay? Could they be called something else? The only um secretarial position that we have that would require is an executive secretary, which that is for certain uh groups. It's not It's not something that you could give an ex- executive secretary to every school. And so um I mean we could investigate that, but then then you have to look at how how do you take the people that are in those secretary positions

154and transition them over to that new position? You would have to do a reduction in force. You'd have to re-post it. And re-post the positions and then that causes a widespread >> like most of the secretaries on here don't want to have it re-posted, yeah. Yeah, that was my impression, too. Well, I think one thing we can do is continue to to talk to our legislators about adding the position to the the code. Cuz ultimately, that's what all this comes down to. It's in the code. Is that right, Dr. Bellpack? Yes. Uh so, we can't change it on our own. Uh granted, I've been out of the loop, especially with the uh um e-tickets, whatever you call them. So, I think that probably should have solved a lot of the issues with reconciliation. Um I

155can tell you positively that there was pushback if I'd asked for s- um overtime for secretary. I can tell you that positively. Um S- So, I think that that i- if push comes to shove, if if the principals are aware that something's happened, if we have a pipe break in the school, then I'd call Mr. Browning and say, "I need to keep my custodian here 2 hours. Can you approve that?" Now, that wasn't common, you know what I'm saying? But, I would be able to get some overtime. And I think that same courtesy should be established for for our secretaries. And but I don't I think if it does happen, granted, it's not going to be every week because of chitchat, but it's because of of some special circumstance. And I'll I'll stand on that

156soapbox because I've seen it happen and um And I wasn't implying that that's what they're doing because our financial secretaries or our secretaries in general, they work very hard whether they're at a school or whether they're at the central office. >> But the big thing going forward today is that these ladies we did have some gentlemen. Mark Talley used to do it, did it a lot. Thought the world of Mark and rest in peace, but um there is a certain stress difference when you're handling large amounts of money and you're responsible for it. I just think that at the state level somebody needs to recognize that these people are Yeah. I I don't think we should let it drop but because I believe me, I can tell you if you've got a confident financial secretary,

157it makes your life a whole lot easier. >> Mhm. I believe that. >> And more more confident. I lost mine at one point for the simple reason she understood she's going to get the same exact pay but I'm not diminishing this though by answering the phone and taking notes. And she doesn't get audited every year. And didn't get audited and etc. etc. So, that's the last I'll say about that. >> common I'm sure. Yeah. So, this is This is a position the state school board can can deal with. It's got to be a legislative thing. It's in statute. So, it looks like we would have four options if I'm thinking clearly here. We could riff everyone and start a new position of whatever sort. We could extend contract days. We could um approve overtime in

158isolated incidences. Um and the fourth one has left me. So, I got you three to choose from. Fourth one's good though. I think three is good. And honestly, at this in this current where we are now, I think that the the overtime thing would be the the best And that's That's That's not a policy thing policy decision. That's just your office decision as you all handle it. I mean I think that's the best solution. I don't know if I understand not wanting to work extra. The The problem I have with um this extending the contract, that doesn't really solve the problem. Because the problem is having to put a 10-hour work day in just maybe six or seven times a year. That That doesn't help. Now, and if you're well organized um I'll say this

159to uh something just occurred to me. There was times in the summer we tried our darndest to get everything wrapped up. But I'd have to make a phone call and say, "Hey, we've This is something was overlooked." Of course, we did have help from central office. But could you come in and let's get a couple of purchase orders done for something in football that was missed. Yep, I did that a lot. The other piece that we have to be cognizant of is our secretaries do not work full 8-hour days. So, when they don't do that, they have to get up to the 40-hour mark before they actually get overtime. And so So, just keep that in mind. That happened with custodians when we had the issue with overtime and some issues there back at Bluefield

160there 2 years ago Christmas time. Christmas flu. But that still would be additional money though, is that correct? Just not at an overtime rate. I think that's I think that's if we would have let our administrators know that that it's possible to pick pick up the phone call and say, "Hey, um Miss X needs to work a couple extra hours this week." And I think that would be a good solution going forward. >> It's It seems to be the the least difficult solvable. So, um let's talk about So, Malcolm's sixth grade moving. So, uh while you're getting your stuff together, uh we did a survey and I got inundated with complaints about the survey. About the way it was done, about the contents of the survey. Um so, >> Thank you. just that preface is

161this. So, Mr. Prudish, we certainly can go back and do a an additional survey and and target specific the specific grade levels like three, four, and five, but I had promised you all at the board meeting you would have the a little more information on the survey that was done. So, that's what this material is. It's the um number of yes and no votes and the percentages for each one of the questions. There were three questions that were asked. And then on the second page, and this is certainly not all of them. I've got a a pretty large stack, but I did go through and pick out a few of the yes vote vote reasons and a few of the no where people did make comments. Some did not make comments, but you know, if

162they did, just a few of the examples. Several of them overlapped. You know, if it was one about being concerned about the sixth grade being in the high school, I may have had 10 of those same comments. Or, you know, it would be better because they play sports and they're already there and you know, it helps parents out. I may have more than that, you know, with several. So, um this is just This is what we had when it was broken down and and we can show you what we what we had gotten. We still can, you know, do that survey of the grades 3, 4, and 5. You want to change that? This did encompass it. It was everything grades 3, 4, 5, um all the way up, yeah. I So, I find it

163curious that 185 people answered question 3, 122 answered question 1. Yeah. It Well, That's not >> Now, what are you saying? No. I mean, On questions I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Look at your no's and yes's. They should all equal the same. >> Um Rosemary, one thing I didn't understand the night that we were there, what precipitated this issue to begin with? Well, this is brought up. I mean, as far back as I can even remember, even when I was teaching, every now and then it would pop back up, and then it would go away, and it would come back up again. Um Again, I think a a lot of it's community, and they know that a several people or several, you know, the other schools all have the sixth grade in their middle schools. There

164are people in the Montcom that feel like their kids are being uh neglected by not having that. But, on the flip side of that, there's people that feel like they like it like that. Their kids are in a, you know, a self-contained classroom in sixth grade. They're not ready to move on. But, it it comes from the, you know, the community questioning and asking is how we bring it back up. >> there's a sports question, too. When the WAC S-A-C moved to the sixth grade model, where they were letting the kids That's probably Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. And, you know, what we I know one of the things that we've have heard for several years, you know, when we would do like PE field day, Montcom had sixth grade at their school in elementary for field

165day, and the other schools did not. So, they were in middle school didn't participate. They're considered secondary. Montcom was considered elementary. But, then, you know, it's the same way with the sports. At one time, the sixth grade wasn't pulled into that. Now that they are, those kids either have to ride the bus up, and I've witnessed that, and they do a pretty good job with that. If they have practice like right after school, they just ride their bus up, and They Yeah, and do what? >> They stopped that, and that was part of the problem. Yes. Well, that >> still in session, and they don't have anywhere for those kids to go. Right. But they they are They have a good system right now with what they're doing about getting the kids there for practices,

166and somebody covering when they get there. Um and they've got it worked out to where we don't have the time. At one point in time, my understanding This is before I was doing this, but my understanding is at one point they just rode the bus up right after school. That was just their regular pickup bus, and they got up there, and you know, then what are we going to do with them because we still have students in class for the high school. But, um I mean, they work real hard on it. It's It's more of a matter of, you know, what parents, what their thoughts are. >> on the survey suggest to me that the three questions were not sufficient. >> Okay. Because the comments suggest a lot of thoughts about things that it would

167be nice to know what the community thought. Or what the plan is for Well, again, I sat through that meeting. I listened to everything everybody said. I can't honestly tell you what the plan is. I don't know. I know they're going to have separate lunches. And I know they're going to be separated when school opens. And that's all I know. I don't know about how they're going to move around the building. Are they going to be on the upper floor, the lower floor, at the end of the floor? >> Lower Lower floor. They'll be on the lower floor, and they'll only have like >> grade, how much moving do they actually do? Sixth grade Well, it's going to be middle school. You mean in If they went up there, Yeah. I think they would be

168treated as sixth graders are at Pikeview, Bluefield, and Princeton middle schools. >> Right. Um my understanding is this idea originated I mean again it's been talked about as long as all of us can remember. Um but I think the high school principal proposed that during staffing that it would be more beneficial for the students to be there. You know, I've had those conversations with the elementary principal, too. Um but of course we want to do what the uh community's comfortable with and explain to them what the opportunities are for their children, pros and cons in that situation. I do not know how uh Miss Stone would manage that. My understanding is and Rosemary would could speak to it that they would have a middle school wing, um you know, that's independent from the high school

169and I do think at Montcalm, much like when I had, you know, when I was at Bluefield Middle and Princeton Middle, you had grade level teachers. When I was at Oakvale, uh my science teacher taught sixth, seventh, and eighth grade because of the number of students. So, it was a different middle school model. So, I think at Montcalm, it's similar in that but um that the teachers would travel, um not the students. >> Well, that's what I was going to say. My very first >> in some situations they would. >> At those levels, this was at Athens years ago. Paul remember, I actually moved. Students didn't move, but I Right. And and that I think that's some of the some of the thinking. Does the elementary school need the space? I was just wondering if

170that was a consideration. >> That that has uh that is not an issue. >> Okay. That was in the comments. I was just >> It was in there that they said, you know, if we move them out, these are parents that say they have to go to Bluefield. >> is glad to know the teacher can go with the students. That's not accurate. So, that's >> Yeah, Dr. Phil Pick, you'll have to answer that. >> That is So, we did a uh reassignment transfer um in agreement that the um teacher would go with the students. So, she And that I said that that night Well, someone said that, Mr. Bridges, but I went back and clarified that. She actually got two different directly to the teacher. I know. I She said, "I don't have the certification."

171No, that's not right. Let Let Dr. Stone speak. Let her tell you. So, she she she did a reassignment elementary ed certification and an and an English 5 through 12 certification. So, to to speak to, you know, students moving versus teachers moving, it it is problematic in grades 7 through 12 where you have people fully certified in all of those grade levels because they may teach 7th grade English, but they also may do a 10th grade English. So, um I agree with the the teacher moving and all of that, but we did a reassignment transfer. When I talked to Ms. Stone, she said that she could work with the certifications that um the individual had, and the individual was in agreement that she would love you know, she wouldn't mind teaching English. And I actually

172even thought about um going and taking the science practices to add that to her repertoire of things that she could teach. Okay. So, that's good to know. >> And it's just one teacher at this point cuz I know at times we've had two, right? >> teacher and a vacancy, so Oh, a vacancy. I was going to say cuz I know a lot of times there's two and they but one's open. Okay. Yes. Um good point, Dr. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, um many years ago and and I have the certification and maybe Amy does too, but in our our group um multi-subject K8, um the the state code says that they can actually um teach normally it when you teach when you have a multi-subject K8, you can only go to grade six. And

173then in 7th and 8th grade, you could do skills or whatever. Well, they've changed that to where they can do science, social studies, and English now with a multi-subject K8 certification. >> That's what it is right there. That's what they can do. Some of those The only thing that they can't teach is math. So some of those individuals that Ms. Stone may have or um and I don't think with the the one uh individual she has the elementary ed, but she that opens up opportunities for them to pick up science, social studies in the 7th and 8th grade. Okay. English. Well, that's good to know cuz I know she was worried about it. >> Yeah. Uh What was the issue that the with regards to districts? The school Montcalm was in two different Some of

174the kids could go down to um Mountain Valley or no, um Timberwood. Timberwood. But couldn't go to Montcalm. >> Could go to Montcalm. Couldn't go to Montcalm. And then kids that live over families that live over in the Ceres area, they can't come to Mr. Lippincott I think would be better served to answer that question, but I do think Well, at the end of the day, are we going to do Are we going to consider this move or not? Regardless of all this stuff. Well, we can't make the decision. >> I know But as far as that question, I do think that there's one area uh that one side of the road went to Bluewell, which is now Timberwood through 5th grade, um and then would go on to Montcalm. Um that to my knowledge

175was not part of the CFP process for Timberwood or discussed to make that change. Ms. Stone had called me uh couple weeks ago talking about graduation walks and um because she last year had one graduate out of the entire class that that affected that went to Bluewell. And she said, "Do I need to take them to Timberwood?" And I said, "Well, I know for a fact that none of your seniors went to Timberwood." You know, and Bluewell. >> that. Right. And so in the in the future and I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, but I'm just saying working through the reasoning of it that in the future um that could be the case, but she said it's rare, you know, and it's like she said last year I had one kid, and some years she

176has zero, but there is a a districting one side of the road type deal. We have that in Princeton with Mercer and Strale and it's a different type of a deal, but Russell would have to explain all that. It's convoluted. >> the the distinction is between Mercer and Strale is is they end up still going to Princeton Middle and Princeton High School. This is kids that can't go to Malcolm Elementary, but are districted Malcolm High School. Right, and and like she said it's it's >> is weird. Yeah, and uh it had I known we could have talked about that, but it and Amy, you can correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know that that was in the CFP for Timberwood, and um I had not been discussed with me, but Mr. Lippincott can speak

177to that. But it's it's a very small number, and maybe something could be resolved, but it's not related really to this conversation. >> Right. Yeah. Okay. Um I can um get this other survey out and be able to have the responses back in before the next board meeting and bring it to that meeting if that's okay. Sure. >> And that way we'll have a dish we'll have the additional Yes. Uh on the next survey, the methodology how how do we ensure integrity because it looked like to me on this survey you might be able to go into and do it four or five times. No, but they had to use emails to get into it and their email addresses are on here as they logged in to answer the questions. I have those. I just

178didn't give you all of them. >> email accounts. I guess you could create four >> That's what I'm saying. I guess there's always there's always that person that's cool but >> we do all of our surveys. Right. It does. I I I think that I think one of the problems with this is it's a yes or a no as opposed to I really support it I just support it, I'm neutral on it, I I oppose it, I really I strongly oppose is the word you use. And that's >> Because most surveys now do that. It's strongly support, support, I'm neutral to oppose, strongly oppose. It gives you a better idea of of what people are thinking. Right. But there's also questions the comments that are made suggest there were questions that should have been asked

179that weren't asked. >> That weren't. I think I think that the survey that we're looking at right now and Dr. Eakins and I've been talking, um I think it will provide more of that, more specific information and a little more detailed of what the parents are are We just want to make sure that the community I know for certain you're not going to get 100% agreement on anything here. Right. But we need to know what the community is thinking before we make a switch that we don't have to make. This >> And This is not necessary. It is Right. It's really emotional. And it was brought to us, you know, it wasn't something we came up with. Um I did ask Mr. Wright yesterday if he had had any additional questions, uh comments or anything

180uh from from the community since the survey was sent out or the meeting and he said he had not. Andy, you know a lot I'm sorry. And no, sorry Mark. Um just one more thing, but on the on the next survey that would have more detail and I agree it's a good idea to use those comments to help ask some some more uh direct questions to what they're saying, uh but I think it would would be good to send the survey to all students this would affect in the future, so that would be K through 5. Um you know that way it's it's if my child there in that district that that if it affects if this would affect my child, I think that would be good to ask that family that question. That's just

181a thought. Sorry Mark. No, I'm I'm sorry. It was my fault. The other question then Amy is how do you know that people that are actually attending that school and not outsiders are taking the surveys. What I would suggest is not putting it on social media and having the principal you know only give it to the families of their students. That you're the good one. >> Yeah, I didn't create the survey that went out but I'd be happy to help. Okay. Yeah, when I spoke to Mr. Wright asked him how he communicated that he said he used Apptegy messaging posts and then the Facebook but if we do a redo and if we do K5 only, I know Amy would work directly with with him. I was I think Ms. Stone made the the original

182and they worked together I think so. Well, 210 responses that's a that's a pretty healthy response so Yeah, that that part that part is good. Considering we just did fifth and sixth is a Right. It went to the whole school? Okay. If you put it on social media anybody can Well, that's true. Okay. All right, any other anything else on this issue? All right then. I I kind of saved this one we're running out of time so I want to hit this one cuz I think this one is important. That's the middle school. And we talked about it earlier what a challenge it is and and it's one of the areas where I think that we would benefit from spending a little more intellectual energy on trying to figure out approaches and what we could

183do and different efforts to help. So, um Let's talk about middle school. So, what's the problem? Well, that seems to be the weakest places we have in terms of achievement. Am I Am I Am I wrong about that? I mean, it it seems to be consistently middle school seems to be an issue. I can tell you that, um, Ms. Roberts at Princeton has really been tracking the students in the last couple years since she's been in that position. And so, she's looking at where the weaknesses are coming through and, you know, is it when they get to sixth grade that they're behind? Is it once they're there, they're not getting what they need and it's a little bit of a hodgepodge and all of it. So, they're focusing on like key areas is what she

184has done. Uh, she did it last year and even more so this year with the the information, the standards, so forth that the kids have to be familiar with when they take their their state testing. Um it We do a lot of training for for secondary. It's harder to get secondary teachers, even paying them to go to trainings. Um, and it's I don't think it's because they just don't want to go. I think several people who are in middle school, they either have children who are involved in a lot of things that that same age and older that they're running around with or they coach or they have something and so it it's hard to get them to the trainings when we're doing those in the evenings and those type of things. And I think

185Ms. Huddle can even attest to that with, you know, with the special ed teachers. It seems like the elementary teachers are able to get there. It's harder to get the middle school when we're paying. So, the in um interaction, I think with the principals to encourage the the staff to do things, I think that's huge. That's been what we've been pushing is that, you know, if it's not important to you, it's not going to be important to them, which then just trickles all the way down. Um but as far as what we're doing and what's being offered, we've got several really good things out there. It's the motivation part of it I'm getting into today. I haven't had kids that age. And being around a lot of kids that age now, it's hormones of just

186being kids. Is that just part of the element here? It's it's that that transition from childhood to young adulthood? I do think that to some degree because, you know, our kids are so geared to being on their phones or their iPads or whatever playing games all the time. And, you know, that's what they do. It's attached to them. And so, from the time they get home, if you go to a school and you watch dismissal, they're coming out of the buildings, you know, on their phones. So, I do think it's a different mindset um with kids, but I still think, like anything else, if if I'm excited about something and I'm your teacher or I'm your principal, that that's contagious in many, many ways. But, you know, if I don't see an importance in it.

187And so, my big push with the with the middle school and the high school principals is, you know, you need to attend these things. You need to be there as well because not only are you being, you know, you're getting that the taste of what's going on, you also are getting that knowledge to go back and use it, you know, with your staff. So, that's the push that we're on right now and what we're working towards and I think the other part of this I will say is we have so many substitutes in middle school. >> to be my next question. Is it That's >> Is part of it, yes, sir. And and a lot of it, right. And a lot of them like at least in secondary, you know, they see that as I

188come in and I sub and I go home. And so I do think if as we get more certified teachers where it's theirs and they're going to own it, I think that helps for the middle school. We do have some that >> we do in high school and elementary. Well, we like one of our middle schools has 13. Oh, wow. You know, right now. So I mean, non-certified teachers there. >> Wow. Okay. All right, Miss Henson, you go Uh plus we do have to think that these uh sixth, seventh, and eighth graders during COVID were in primary school. And that's huge. I agree. I agree. Right now, thank you for that comment. Well, and Is it certification Is it Is it a lack of certification or a lack of people applying for the jobs? It's

189both. But I will say this, you know, and I agree with Miss Mitchell. I mean, yes, we've got 13 vacancies in one school that has subs in it. But these long-term subs have been there for years. It's not like they've just been pushed into middle school. So for me, um looking at them, they know the system, they know um what is expected. So what are we doing at that point to enhance their education so that they can help those students? And Greg, to your point earlier about our Is it just the kids? I think we would answer our own questions if we look historically over the last, you know, 15 years. Yes, kids have changed, technology has changed, all of those things. But if you look at the last 15 years, what have our test

190scores been in middle school? You know, have we had years that we've done better? And if we did better, what were we during doing during that time um that we're not doing now? Or um you know, I I don't know what the answer is, but I I think historically if we look at some things, because I would like to think at Bluefield Middle when Ernie and I and Rosemary were there in the early 2000s, we had pretty decent test scores. And if we didn't, we were going to have a conversation with our immediate supervisor of what we were not doing appropriately. And so um Anyhow, that's just my two cents. I'm not instructional, I'm HR. So, that's just from the outside looking in. Those are some things that I I would consider. But, I do

191know that some of the individuals um specifically at one particular school where we have all these vacancies, um some have reached out to me because there's this new piece in the in legislation that has passed that says if you've been in a position for 4 years that you um can automatically qualify for a position um if you take the necessary steps to get the certification. So, we're looking into those areas trying to figure out what we can do to get more certified teachers. >> Well, that was going to be one of my questions when when I saw this pop up on the on the list of issues was can we not help them get the certification somehow? I mean, that really seems to me to be you know, we're growing our own here to make

192sure we got teachers I'm sorry. We're growing our own here to make sure we got teachers coming in the pipe, but they're not going to help us right now. Right. >> So, the teachers that we have that have been long-term subs is there not a way to help them get the certifications they need? That's really a part of the crux of the problem to me is we just don't have the people certified cuz you hear well, they're all subs and I'm like, yeah, but that sub has been there 2 years. That's not a That's not a I mean, it's a sub by definition, but that's a classroom teacher. Right. And I think um the conversations and and Jenny could back me up on this as far as the alternative ed process and that's what we're

193talking about here is people getting going through that process so they take classes with Marshall or Concord uh or whomever to to or Bluefield State um to obtain this alternative certification. It's about the money that it takes to actually take those classes and and unfortunately if you're a new person coming into the system and you've only got 4 years of experience, you may not have the flexibility to pay for those classes even though it is at a reduced rate, you're still having to take classes. So I don't know if we have the flexibility to support people that are at that stage monetarily to you know, when I and many of us probably that got our master's degree, Marshall would come down provide the classes here, but it was at a cohort's rate. It was at

194a reduced rate and so we were able to get our master's degree pretty easily because depending on how many how many students were in the class depending on how much we would pay. And so you know that's the only piece that I know that we could help with other than you know, they may attend after school trainings or whatever to enhance their instructional practices or classroom management, but I think they do that anyhow. They'll still have to take the Praxis I guess at the end. Yes. >> Crystal, what was the name of the program the state created but then the county had to pay for? Um that you could do alternative certification. >> what she's talking about the alternative certification program. >> It's just we have our Mercer County alternative certification for general educators and

195then we have it for special educators. Cuz I remember Kathy was subbing at some place long-term subbing and she told Betsy Kaufman about Betsy Shaw. And Kaufman was on the board then and everybody thought that Miss Kaufman figured out a way to get her the money and they paid for all of hers. Whereas with my wife, we've paid for every one of her master's degrees. There was a time when the county helped pay. And I and then I Yeah, early early in my tenure. Maybe not for the >> Not this program cuz this really No, this was a different, yeah. >> But it may have been through like if you um were going to go and get a permit or an authorization, maybe that. Um I don't I don't remember, Greg. Maybe the conversation needs

196to be had between our administration and the colleges and universities and say, you know, we need help on this issue. You know, we're not asking you to fund indefinitely. We need this group of people to get these certifications. And we're asking for your help. Kathy's was her program was in conjunction with the SCSC, so she got a reduced cost. But we still had to pay whatever that cost was. >> the again with a long-term sub can be they're eligible for benefits after 100 days. >> Yeah. And it's after uh 30 days. 30 days? Is it 30 days? Okay. And it has to be the same location, same uh Right. Okay. >> How many people have we done have we had a complete alternate certification? Do you know that off the top of your head? Well,

197I I think it's about 15. Okay. Which is not really very many considering it's been How many years has that been available? Oh, goodness. Probably the last four or five years, maybe? Not that long. Maybe six to eight. So, that's not very many, really, when you look at it in the scheme of things. Do you think it's mostly the cost or do you think it's the I know some have had issues with the Praxis. Yeah, um if they don't meet a certain GPA um going into the program, then they have to take the core reading, writing, and math Praxis test. And you know, those are anywhere from $100 to $200 to do that. Okay. Maybe even a little bit more now. And then once if they go into secondary, and this is the piece that's

198problematic, they have to take that content area Praxis as well. Uh-huh. Up front. So, they can say, "Hey, I'm qualified for this position to to go through this process." So, they have to take that piece. So, that's another $200. Yeah. Then they can enroll apply and be recommended for a job as long as we don't have any fully certified applicants. And then from that point, then I connect with Marshall or Concord to say I've got this candidate. And then they take on the rest of it. But um I think the cost of it is is um problematic. >> It is. So, there's time involved, too, I'm sure is an issue for some. And if you have the GPA, though, then it waives that Core Praxis test. But then there's also like the uh Principles of

199Teaching and Learning that you have to take at the end. And if you go through the special ed route, they don't require anything up front um other than the Core Praxis or you meet the GPA. Then you take the PLT and then you take the content area Praxis test for whatever special ed >> 3 years to finish it. Yes. So, this is a ques- This is a question, not a suggestion. There would Is there anything that would prevent us from saying in these areas where we have need that we have not been able to fill, we will pay for the Praxis. We will pay for any tests that you have to take to get these positions filled. Provided you agree to stay in Marshall County for a while. Is there anything that would preclude us

200from doing that? I don't know of anything that would preclude us from doing that. Except that the budget Except for the budget. >> Well, I mean money. I get that part. But But I I'm just thinking out loud that because we have 13 in one school, but we have others in other middle schools, too. It's not just I mean, we have we have long-term subs in all our middle schools. >> middle schools, either. It's all everywhere. Yeah. But it But it's it's uh it's just again, not a suggestion so much as just asking a question. Just trying to figure out because it it it's right. It's a It's a resource. I think a lot of times it's just a resource thing. We just got to focus resources where they're needed. Uh and and I think

201uh I have said on many occasions and I don't really I probably shouldn't say that out loud, but I you know, I it's just a challenging group of kids. I don't know that I could do it myself. It's kind of like it's kind of like special ed, you know, it takes a particular kind of person to manage sixth, seventh, and eighth graders in in large quantities. I mean, yeah, you give me one or two, I can probably handle it. You give me 30 I'm probably going to be running and screaming in the other direction. Uh because that's a lot. >> Well, Greg, I always have said and and this is just a side note. I always thought I wanted to teach kindergarten, but when I went to middle school, that's where I found my niche

202because I'm a little sarcastic at times and those kids got me. Got you. >> And and but my little kindergartens not so much. And I mean, I really think you people in general, I think have a mindset that middle school students are difficult. And and that's fine. That's their opinion and and but I really think if you really dig in and get in there and interact with them, they're a lot of fun. Um but they have a lot of challenges, too. You know, we go from elementary school where we're coddled and and teachers are helping us move from you know, point A to point B. In middle school, you know, in fifth grade they start transitioning them to to not thinking that way and not coddling them as much, but then you get to middle

203school and there's nobody. You know, the the teachers do help you, but they're not they're not there to coddle you. They're not there to um do things that elementary teachers do. And that's not talking anything bad about our our middle school or our elementary teachers. They have a role to play and they know their role and they do it very well. But once they get to middle school, we kind of we're a little bit more hands-off and we're teaching them content just as the high schools are teaching content. >> Middle Middle School doesn't walk to the bathroom and allow me to of the furniture. Exactly. Exactly. >> If If the the original question here was how do we improve middle school? Off? It's on. It's on. Okay. Okay. Uh I I was thinking and we

204all do this in a lot of things. Um possibly it wouldn't work, but anyhow, years ago when I was teaching, we did this thing in the county where you was teachers went out in the workplace and I spent a week seeing what the job was. And one of mine went to was Corning down in Blacksburg. And they were doing what I also heard of American Automobile was learning from the Japanese and doing. And they had gone to where they're less top-down leadership and listen to the workers. They showed me a little slim piece of um looked like a beehive slice or something. Uh of ceramics that they came one of the workers suggested to them that saved them probably millions of dollars of smashing things just because that worker knew the situation. He understood it.

205And then they listened to him, they could learn from him. Uh I heard a story I read a story of Harley-Davidson was putting out new motorcycles. They had to put cardboard underneath them on the showroom floor because they were leaking oil. They turned to a policy of listening to the workers and they just boomed. Uh Maybe we ought to listen if we want to find out, talk to teachers, talk to principals in the middle school. They know who these kids like what you're talking about your experience. That's where we need to learn from is talking to people in the trenches. That's a thought. And I agree with you assuming we give them to the right person. >> We need the information from them to know what to do. Right. That it's kind of a what

206resources do you need that you don't have? What can we do to help? Uh it's a we get it it's challenging. So, what can you do to help? We got How many unfilled special need positions do we currently have? Okay. I mean that's the that's the idea. It's It's So, the need's increasing, yeah. And you didn't have a mic, so you're getting a Good point, Emily. She gave it away. And that's that's fine. So, perhaps what you need to to spend I'll tell you where this came from because after this conversation or actually after this showed up on cuz I asked the board members what issues they'd want to see. I saw this one and it within like a couple days I started getting some messages from some families in Bluefield that were like, you

207know, we we think we're going to send our kids to Graham and of course I got kind of riled and went it's the same place. It It's just across the state line. It's not any different. Don't buy into that nonsense. It's the same. It just looks greener. It's an optical illusion. And I said, "What are the issues?" Well, one of the issues was substitute teachers, but I don't think the parents realize that they've been there for several years. It's called They're called a sub. Uh and one of the issues was and I'll use the word reputation, not reality, but what people perceive and what they think. And that's part of what's happened in Princeton, I think, is the the effort to change the perception. Because I have said it before and I'll say it again.

208If your child is devoted and does their work and the parents care, you can go through Mercer County schools in any building we've got and be successful in the end and go to Duke if you want to or go to Johns Hopkins if you want to. That's the part of the picture that I think is forgotten out there in the world sometimes. We can do a lot. I I keep using the horse and water thing. We can drag them to the water, but they got to do the drinking. But there's also a resource issue. We have to make sure that the middle schools have the things they need unique to them. And if that's missing, then we need to know. And at this point, I don't feel like we know. Uh so, I think Paul's

209suggestion of finding out what they want, what they need, what's missing would be helpful. If it's special needs, then we got to figure that out. I mean, we I mean, we this has been a chronic issue and I think it's a chronic issue in the United States, not just in Mercer County. Getting people certified in special needs and getting them here. Uh you know, it it's a challenging job, but so is all of it. I mean, I you know, I've lived with a third grade teacher and sometimes she comes home and looks like she's been in a a 24-mile marathon and her hair is sticking out and she just goes, "I'm going to take a shower. Don't talk to me right now." Uh so, it's challenging all the way around. But there are unique issues

210with special needs. There's unique issues with a seventh grader who's grown a foot in the last uh year and his legs are bothering him cuz he he got growing pains and He's way past me, man. I'm looking up to him now. I'm like, "Wow." Um So, you know, we need to put the resources where we need to put them and that you know, we're going to be doing a budget uh meeting and we need to know where to put our resources. I I would like to request that we put the ultra certification on the budget meeting and continue that. And if some if some I don't know who the appropriate person is, but if somebody can get a number, like a range at least of what is the cost for somebody to get an ultra

211certification so that we cuz that's going to be the first thing Leslie's going to say when we ask, "Can we have money for this?" We need to know and and and it also may be worthwhile to survey the people that we're talking about in the long-term positions and see if we could provide you obviously don't make any promises, but if we could provide financial help, would that make a difference in your decision? Cuz I there's going to be some that aren't going to do it whether you pay for it or not. So, there's no reason to figure out a way to pay for it if the majority are not going to take advantage of it. You know what I'm saying? But I mean, it seems like to me that's a underutilized program not because of

212anything we're doing, but for whatever reason, it's too burdensome for people to do it and especially in special. I mean, you would think if we can get some people cuz you know, they're not just going to show up overnight and have a million certified special ed people. That's just unfortunately not how it works. >> Well, I suppose that we've got grow your own, but that's that's in the pipeline. >> So, if we could put that cuz that's going to end up being a financial decision if we're talking about money. So, if we could talk about it in the budget workshop, but we need to have a starting point of what the costs are. I I diff with the different practices, it's going to vary, but if we could get a range of, you know, And

213given the amount of special needs students, it probably needs to include special needs certifications, too. But I I do want to have that second part of it, which is you're going to sign an MOU that says we're not going to renew the certification, and then you're moving to Arizona. You're You're going to Okay. I mean, yeah, just Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I think that's good, but I Yeah, we need some kind of commitment on their part, obviously, but yes. But I I I just think it's it's uh I mean, we we've spent an extraordinary amount of time, effort, energy, and resources on K3 now. So, that should funnel up to four four five, and and then middle school is coming quick, and and it's it's different. So, I think it's worthwhile to to do

214that. Uh we have a few other things on the agenda, but we're also at lunchtime. So, um we're going to recess for lunch. Another Another work session. And we'll uh Who's going to be here at 1:00? Not me. I'll be here. Me. You're going to be here? No, I'm going to go to my brother's thing. Oh. We can't meet then. I thought we had I thought Amber had Three is a quorum. No. Yeah. Are you not Are you able to stay, Mark, or not? Uh I've got to run, and then Oh, you'll be back. Okay. Oh, that's right. You were going to Yeah, wait for me. We do have one person out there, too, at the very beginning. Okay. What time is your thing at the library? 2:00. Maybe you could be here till Mark

215gets here, maybe. I mean, >> Okay. So, we'll figure it out. We're going to go into recess. Uh meeting picks up at 1:00. I got a question for Rosemary and Ed, um and Greg, you Well, anybody can listen. It's not a >> Mhm. >> Good afternoon. We took a recess from our work session to eat lunch and we're back now and we have finished our work session. As you can see two more members have had to leave. We have one action item on the agenda and then we'll be going into student disciplinary hearings which we do not stream. So once we handle the student disciplinary hearing, I'm sorry the the personnel agenda, then we will we will be adjourning for the regular meeting and going into our hearings on student discipline. Uh So board member

216number 333 which you should have with you is one is one page involving one personnel matter. It is an adjustment of a resignation date. Is there a motion to approve? Is there a second? Motion and a second. Any discussion? There appearing to be none on the motion. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed likewise. The motion carries three in favor and none opposed. Is there a motion to adjourn? Is there an objection? Are you adjourning or just going into executive We are adjourned. Where's our