001Good morning. It is Jan or February the 3rd, 2026. It is a little past 8. The Murphy County Board of Education is in special session this morning to discuss one issue and that is regarding the Spanishburg FEMA application. [clears throat] I thought perhaps what I would do since there's a lot to this is let the people that know about this talk about it and then let board members ask questions unless the board has a different approach. All right, then I'll turn it over to Lesie. We'll start there and work from there. >> No pledge. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Pledge [clears throat] allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [cough and clears throat]
002>> Thank you. >> All right. >> Good morning. We have several experts with us today and I think it would be best if we allow them to introduce themselves. I will start with Jason Means and if we could just go around the table around the rows. >> Sure. >> Yes. My name is Jason. I'm the state public assistance officer. I work for the West Virginia Emergency Management Division and I manage FEMA's public assistance program. It's the program that FEMA has to um help provide disaster funding to rebuild facilities after a major disaster declaration. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> My name is Keith Geno. I'm the emergency management director here in Mercer County and I'm also the flood plane management. >> Uh my name is David Ferguson. I'm an architect and a principal at ZMM.
003>> Joe PAC. I'm an engineer with Thompson and Linton. Uh good morning everybody. My name is Austin Bis. Uh I work for the West Virginia Emergency Management Division as well under in the public assistance section and I work under Dr. Means. >> Well, we certainly have enough brains here now to figure out this. Okay. We appreciate >> Oh, I'm sorry. I missed one. >> Oh, it's okay. All right. I'm Courtney Nice. I'm a funding specialist and client service manager at Thompson and Linton. [clears throat] >> We're good. >> So, and I I know since last February we've been presenting to you [cough and clears throat] updates on the process with FEMA and it is very complicated and at this point we need um a path. We um I didn't realize it was Dr. Means. Dr.
004Means has >> provided us Jason. >> Okay. he has provided us um an overview and then [clears throat] several options. So, what I would like to do is just turn it over to him um to have him review those with you. And we've got Keith Genote as the flood plane manager. Whatever we do has to comply with not only our local but our state flood plane regulations. Um the architects have have really the architect and engineers have really helped us out in two areas. We have structural issues as you know and that's primarily what ZMM has been working on and it's extremely detailed. Um last week actually he had put in that there are metal plates that have to be replaced and filled with concrete. He had to provide pictures and examples. Um so SEMA
005is being very very um detailed as to what we need. Joe PAC with Thompson and Linton has been invaluable once we began the stream bank and wastewater treatment plant analysis. Um, so those are the two areas that they've been providing guidance and and a lot of work and numbers to FEMA. >> Good morning once again. U, I would like to keep it as informal as you all would like so I can answer your all's questions. Just to provide a brief backstory. Everybody is aware that Spanishburg Elementary was damaged in the flooding event that happened last February. Since that time, um Mercer County Board of Education along with state school board uh state school building authority who's on the call with us today were both applicants uh in that disaster. U FEMA's this disaster it was
006inclusive of FEMA's individual assistance program which covers individual households, homeowners, renters, and also public assistance. And it's a little bit of a a misnomer. When we say public assistance, think [clears throat] public infrastructure. So, if it's governmentowned, special district, uh even certain private nonprofits, they are potentially eligible for funding under FEMA's public assistance program. Once you apply, it starts a very lengthy process. It is probably one of the most complex grant programs. And I even even though it is a grant, I hedge to to even call it a grant because of the complexity. And it's really made for being a reimbursement program which provides even more challenges because a lot of the times we don't have the money to spend to get reimbursed later on. We have some workarounds uh to not advance money but
007to just in time money as needed. But to get there we need to [clears throat] get to an obligation of funds. FEMA will take us through this very elaborate process with all their subject matter experts and they will review the documentation specifically provided by the architects and the engineers so that they can come up with a cost estimate and right now as uh in indicated in the sheet that Leslie had provided to you all earlier we are in the realm of crossing the 50% threshold typically if the estimated cost of repairing a facility slips over the 50% rule FEMA no longer wants to spend money on repairing. They want you to replace instead. They would prefer to get the structure out of harm's way so that you don't have to experience that event again. The
008other component of that is that we're also looking at technical feasibility. At a certain point, FEMA may say it's simply not technically feasible to build that rebuild that facility up to codes and standards in that location without moving it. So, uh, I'm not going to go into great detail with all of the options that are indicated on the sheet. Just know that this works a lot like a tax form. The way that you answer one question leads you to a whole different path of logic to go down. And I don't want to go down each one because we could spend an entire day on every single option. The big takeaways from this meeting, at least for me, is understanding that we're right on the verge of the 50% rule, technical feasibility, which will basically trigger
009um uh a a movement of the school out of the flood plane. Now, at that point, that gives you some other options as well is that FEMA will also, depending on which path, which part of the tax form that you fill out, which path you go down, it could maximize the funding to do more than just build back. You could build back better. There's the option for uh building a facility that is not only up to codes and standards and out of the flood plane, but is really driven by what the what would benefit the community most. And I look to say like the 2016 flood, you all probably remember that was a very large flooding event. Several schools in Cana and Nicholas County were damaged in that event. Uh the the ones in Canal
010County were just finished last year and I think this year Nicholas County is still going. [clears throat] You see it's been it's almost a decade now on those. Um it's a very elaborate process to go through to make sure that we don't [clears throat] miss a step, miss dotting an eye crossing a tea because at the end of the day, if we make a mistake administratively, we don't get the right permit, we don't do the right thing, there's the potential that we would have to pay the funding back. So we have to move as quickly as we can, but also expeditiously as well. But there's a possibility that you could also qualify for building back better, which would be doing something not just replacing what you have now somewhere else, but consolidating it into something
011that is more purpose-built for the community. Of course, that's going to be however the board of education wants to proceed. Um, the next thing that I would just mention in passing is that as you all have probably read in the news, there's a lot of changes that's coming to FEMA right now. The president instituted the FEMA review council this past year to propose changes to FEMA to make it more efficient and they are changing the agency in real time. One of the things that we have historically seen with FEMA is that they would give you mulligan after mulligan to provide the information that they need and if you miss a mark, they give you another opportunity. New FEMA, what we're calling FEMA 2.0, there's two weeks. Give us the information or figure it out. That's
012really the bottom line. We have to move and meet their metrics, meet their timelines so that we don't get into a position. At a certain point, I won't say it's the worst case scenario, but at a certain point, FEMA will provide funding and then they'll just say, "Well, you're taking too long. Figure it out and pay for it out of your own pocket and then bring us all the bills and we'll figure out what we can and can't reimburse." under a traditional reimbursement process, they will obligate funding and as needed, we can draw that funding down and provide it to the board of education to build, repair a facility. So again, I want to just mention in passing that there's a lot of changes at the federal level and we want to move as expeditiously
013as we can so that we don't lose hold of the funding pending any questions. That's really all I have for an update. board members. [clears throat] So, talking about the really close to the 50% rule. >> Um, what determines that really close? I mean, is you've got the architects and engineers in here and they've they've done their due diligence to what it it's going to take to mitigate the problem. And I' I haven't taken time to read in length your assumptions or your options for consideration, but if we're in a position like that at this point, um who's to say we're o we're over that. What is there a formula? I guess I'm asking that that's used to come up with this 50% rule >> there. There is indeed. And that formula will [clears throat]
014ultimately be determined by FEMA. So FEMA has their own subject matter experts, their own architects, their own engineers, their own insurance specialists, their own cost estimators. What we need to do is provide the most accurate, up-to-date information on what we think the real world cost is. A lot of the times FEMA will just say, "Here's kind of a stock price because it's based on national building codes." They don't understand that trying to do [clears throat] work in remote parts of Appalachia is more expensive. So we have to through the architects and engineers be able to describe to FEMA what the real world cost is and that's going to trigger a lot of back and forth. They're you know their engineers are going to look at it and say this you said it's this much but
015that's twice the national average. Why is that? And so long as our explanation is reasonable to them they will increase that cost to see where we fall on that 50% feasibility. The more complicated part of this particular project is that it's multiple projects. FEMA through their own there's tens of thousands of pages of laws, policies, and rules that they have to navigate. And part of that says that they really can't combine the wastewater treatment facility with the school. So, if we were able because the the package plant that is connected to the school also suffered damage. There was a slip along the stream. I think that the actual facility uh the control panels had some damage of the tanks. So, at a certain point, I'd be like, "Well, that would really push us over the
01650% rule, but FEMA's looking at it as two completely separate projects." I've asked them, and I haven't, because again, FEMA doesn't like to deal in hypotheticals. we can have some good dialogue with them, but they don't like answering questions without hard facts. Is that technically we may get into a position where the school is hovering around that 50% threshold and does not cross it, which not would not require codes and standards for the entire facility to be upgraded, updated, but the package plant may the package plant actually may be over the 50% rule. So at that point they may say well that doesn't qualify for direct funding in the flood plane to repair it visav the school technically feasible. It's not technically feasible then to repair the school either. So this is going to have
017a there's there will be a lot of once FEMA really gets into the meat of what the architects and engineers put together. They're going to have a lot of questions for us and once again they're going to say we want to reply in two weeks and we will have to draft the best reply we can and provide it to them in two weeks. So what kind of exposure then if if if [clears throat] these well Lesie and Tom and whoever else have been involved with them through this whole process, they've done their due diligence to their best knowledge of how to do it. And what kind of exposure does that put Mer County schools in? um with regards to um obtaining or not obtaining the funding, would would FEMA ever come and say it's time
018to cut bait, not fish anymore at a certain point? And [clears throat] and usually that's triggered when when the applicant goes radio silent. Typically, if they're asking questions and we're just kind of duck diving and dodging, that's when FEMA gets a little aggravated and says, "That's not good. You're you owe us an answer. you've ghosted us. In this case, as long as you're feeding them something, and they're like, I don't have a 100% of your answer, but here's 50% for you to chew on. As long as we're demonstrating diligence and showing them that we're trying to make forward progress, they will most likely keep the funding available on the front end. >> This is outside of my principal, former transformed teacher. Could you explain what is the 50% rule? What what 50% of what >>
01950% of the estimated value of the facility and FEMA I believe is >> is that based on tax? >> It's ba it's based typically on a combination of tax records and also what it would hypothetically cost to rebuild the facility in today's money. >> So in our area if if we there's a perception that things are undervalued based on taxes. >> Correct. >> So does that does that have a big influence on this? It influences it but it's not the exclusive indicator. >> Okay. The other question I have then um typically when this I do know just what on the 50% rule when you start a major project whichever way we go there's always cost overruns. >> Yes. >> So does that feed back in to the 50% rule if you've got cost and sometimes
020they can be pretty substantial. We saw that especially during co >> that does and great question because this will influence the options that you have in front of you all. By and large FEMA public assistance understands that big major construction projects will have change orders. We'll have cost increases depending on which lane which part of the tax form you all fill out and which direction you all go. FEMA has latitude to pay on actual expenses. So, let's say hypothetically your project is estimated at $5 million. They say, "We we looked at everything and we think it's going to cost $5 million." And they obligate $5 million worth of funding. At that point, the engineer puts together all the documentation that would that would be necessary to go out to bid to build a new facility.
021The bid goes out and it comes in. Your low bid is 6 million. So long as you can prove to FEMA that you bid it the correct way and you didn't try to take any shortcuts, they will increase the obligation to $6 million. Say that you're building the project. And I think you remember uh during Clintennon a couple years ago, they ran into pyite in the soil and there was a $14 million cost overrun. FEMA covered the additional 90% of that additional expense. So if we stay in a certain lane, FEMA will pay on actual expenses. Now, one of the options that that is in front of you all and is worth being discussed is an alternative procedures project. Something that FEMA calls a 428. It's based on section 428 of the Stafford Act. At
022a certain point, FEMA says, "Well, maybe you want to do something radically different." They will estimate whatever it is to replace that facility and then they give you a cap grant. Here's $5 million. Spend it how you want to spend it. Now, they have to approve it. You can't just go out and have a pizza party. You have to you have to you have to propose to them. We would like a sports complex rather than a school. Just throwing that as a hypothetical. But they give you that option. The problem is it's capped. Whenever you if you have a cost overrun, you have to eat it. But that is an option for you all to discuss and something that we've had success with in certain projects and some challenges on others. Ultimately, if you decide
023to keep the school at its current location, [snorts] is any of it going to reduce the likelihood of a flood occurring again? >> I I would >> and damaging the school again. Well, and that's where we get like said we're we're talking about the 50% rule and technical feasibility, but we also have to look at if we repair the facility at its current location. FEMA has other rules that say that you're going to have to cover whatever the total obligation, not just what FEMA provides you, the 90% in this case that FEMA is going to provide. 100% of whatever the total obligation is in that facility, you're going to have to cover in flood insurance in perpetuity going forward forever. You know, I've had folks say say before, it's, well, it sounds like FEMA is
024going to they're just going to bail you out one time. And I'm like, that's not accurate. They're going to provide funding, but then they're going to set expectations. They're not just going to use taxpayer money to repair a facility, leave it in harm's way, and then not have the applicant continue having flood insurance on it from here on out. And that flood insurance, as you all are well familiar, is it's very expensive. >> We actually tried to obtain quotes for you um for today. We've not found anyone to quote. Um right now we have $750,000 between building and contents. We have been working with our insurance provider or insurance agent Dave Stacy with USI and they've not been able to obtain anyone who would insure us yet at $4.5 million which is what our base
025estimate would be to repair the school and the wastewater treatment plant. >> Well, did Leslie does that tie your hands if you have that much issue going forward if you can't I I see it on the news all the time where you can't get flood insurance in certain locations. It does and and that's why I wanted to provide the board that option. I'm not saying we cannot but we started last week when um Dr. means and and FEMA met with me on Tuesday and um and then we met Wednesday I believe and he graciously explained this in a lot more detail what we needed to do to me and um Keith was on on that call as well and basically there's there are a lot of options. We could raise the gym. We could build
026it up. could do as much as we can, but we're still going to have to have flood insurance for the entire amount. And right now we're at 750. And um I can't say that. >> Well, and that may also fit into the technical feasibility as well that you may slip and be under the 50% rule, but if you cannot ensure up to what FEMA would potentially provide, that would be justification as well. That's like we're FEMA's not going to give you the money. They're not going to invest in something that you're not that you can't get a flood insurance policy on. So that may tie your hands. >> And is that this question? So does that help u your case with getting funding from FEMA if they understand? >> I I would say it doesn't
027necessarily help or hurt. It's it's FEMA is going to their objective is to provide funding reimbursement funding to the applicant to repair or replace a facility to meet its pre- disaster design and function. So that means that like right now you have a school that's X number of square feet but only 30% occupied. They're going to provide potentially provide funding up to whatever that full square footage is if you need it and more if codes and standards says that it has to be bigger. So let's say that your bathrooms are of a certain size and not fully ADA compliant. FEMA will say no, we'll provide a little additional funding to make them larger ADA compliant. Like and then they also have hazard mitigation as well. There's a FEMA has a hazard mitigation program, a separate
028hazard mitigation program, but they also have hazard mitigation baked in to the actual PA program, public assistance program as well that says if you get X number of dollars, you get additional mitigation money as well for whatever that new facility may be. >> My last question for now, um, so if if you do, not saying that we we would, but if you do, have to look at replacement. What about the cost of the property to build on? That would be covered as well. >> Paul, so we got seven options. Four are under the 50% rule and three are over the 50 rule. One of the three over the 50% rule doesn't look feasible because of the insurance issue. So, I'm just going to say two. So, it's hard to make a decision until we know
029whether we're above or below the 50% rule. So, how do we determine that? What do we what do we do to the the step that we need to take in order to make that assessment so we can then make a decision because I know time is of the essence. Uh how do we do that >> that to answer I believe that there is an outstanding request for information [clears throat] now. Uh do you remember what particular points that they had addressed on that Leslie? And um we have an RFI, a request for information that FEMA has sent out and it's it gets rather frustrating because you'd like them to ask all the questions at once, but the answer to one question leads you to another. So they'll ask it, you reply, a couple of weeks
030later, they'll they may have more questions. We're in the process now of answering their questions based on that that exact topic, how much things would cost. And that's where FEMA FEMA's engineers, their subject matter experts are going to review the information from your all's architects and engineers to see if you do either a cross it or b if it's technically not feasible to repair. Like I said, there's a position where you all don't meet the 50% rule, but it's just technically not feasible to do that type of work in the flood plan. And that can be for both the school or the wastewater treatment, the package plant. That's actually a separate project. And who makes that determination? >> FEMA. >> Where where is the I like where is the people that we're actually talking about?
031Where is this? >> They're everywhere. >> Are they like the [laughter] force >> force of the universe? >> They they are a little bit of everywhere. We sit in FEMA region three. Their headquarters is in Philadelphia. However, we're one of only a handful of states that have a fit, an FIT, a FEMA integration team office, which is located in Charleston. I think they last I remember I think they have about 80 staff in Charleston. We're what FEMA labels as a perpetual disaster state. Due to our topography, our soil conditions, the weather patterns that are here, on average, we have four severe weather events every every year in West Virginia. And over the last 20 years, we average two federal disaster declarations per year. >> So, in a sense, this is actually kind of a training
032ground for them. They send a lot of their staff here because we're always in a federal disaster declaration. >> So, when will we know whether we're above or below the 50% rule? >> Pretty soon, I'd say I I would say probably within a month's time. their their architects and engineers because as part of that big FEMA parts of FEMA check on other [clears throat] parts of FEMA so that there's no funny business or collusion. So the local office works with the regional office, the regional office works with the headquarters office and the headquarters office has their own subject matter expertise and they're designed to be nameless, faceless. They don't know me. They don't know you. There's no collusion. they can simply look at the data on paper and make a determination one way or the
033other. But if I had to take a guess, I would say pro if we can answer their questions and provide everything that they need. I would say probably within a month or two, they would probably [snorts] be able to give us a thumbs up or a thumbs down whether it's either technically feasible to work in the flood plane or if we've crossed over the 50% rule. >> And once they make that decision, what do you recommend in terms of replying as to our option? Well, [cough and clears throat] they're as part of that RFI once they've reviewed it, they're going to come back to you and say, "What do you want?" That's going to [clears throat] be the next RFI that they give you is it's like we have made a determination hypothetically that we're
034it has crossed the 50% rule. It's not technically feasible. Where would you like your new facility? And they're going to and they're going to that's >> that's the two weeks then. >> What's that? And that's when we get the two weeks to get back. >> The other the other challenge as well is that we're coming up on the FEMA 428. And then once again, there's I'm not advocating for 428, which is the alternative procedures. Take take the funding and use it on something drastically different. Uh but we are coming up, I believe there's a one-year time frame on that. We're rapidly approaching. I believe this disaster was declared at the beginning of March last year. So, I'm hoping that FEMA can have their answer back to us by then because then that will influence your
035all's decision. At a certain point in time, they can no longer allow alternative procedure projects. So, you're kind of stuck with a standard lane project where it pays on actual expenses as you go. >> Right? So, we've learned in Mercer County that when you're building a new school and people have property, the property suddenly increases in cost a lot. And what does FEMA do with that? >> They they look at reasonableness. Everything that FEMA does is through the lens of what is reasonable, allowable, allocable, and necessary. If they see the property typically sells for X amount and it's 10% over normal retail value, no, no harm, no foul. But if somebody's going to say, "No, my property is threefold more," FEMA will obligate what they think is reasonable, and then you have to find the
036gap. >> Right. So, you've had experience with Nicholas County and and the Canol County schools. >> Yes, sir. >> Are we tied into all the rules that are associated with building schools that the state imposes on us as well? >> Yes. All local, county, state, any rules that apply >> schoolboard policy. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, it's so it's complicated. >> Well, and the way that it's that it's designed and FEMA makes it a little bit more challenging is that they say go, you know, pretend we're not here. What would you do if FEMA was not here? And if you had to replace this facility, how would you normally conduct business? That's the way that they like to see things go. They don't want to see you make a decision based on what they
037will or won't pay for. >> And I'm not picking on a fellow board, but a lot of Nicholas County's problems were self-inflicted. Uh what what is the time frame? Let's let's say we chose to build a new school. What's the time frame? I would I would certainly lean to the state school board who's on the phone call or on our team's meeting today, Christine Dice, school building authority, they would be more in tune with the actual time frame on what it would take to build a new facility. >> No, I meant with with FEMA >> that as long as we don't get stuck in the mud like if there say that there are legal challenges and that could draw out for years, that's when FEMA will will basically [snorts] say figure it out yourself and
038bring us the bills sometime later. It's not that FEMA goes away. It's just they take access to the money and set it aside while we figure those things out. So, as long as we don't hit big legal challenges or environmental issues, which just for your all's awareness, it takes a long time to design a school, put it out to bid, it takes equally as long to get it through a FEMA environmental review. The the average time frame that we typically see for large public infrastructure is over a year. So, whenever a base design location, a base design is made, and this is the new parcel, it will probably go through at least a year-long environmental review with FEMA. >> Okay. >> After everything else is done. >> Yes, sir. >> So, basically to me, there
039are basically three options. We repair in place, we build a new school somewhere, or we do section 428. Um, sorry that was the CPA and me. [laughter] Sorry. Um, um, so those are our three options. We have kids in school in a school that they can't use right now. There are so many things that you all have to think about. The section 428 allows those funds. And I realize this is a very controversial topic, but if we close that school and redistrict and send kids to Lash Meat, Pike View, Athens, Melrose, if we did that, we could repair those schools as well. We could use that money to touch all of those students in those schools as well. >> So you have a lot of options >> and the only loser is Spanish community. >>
040Is that a loser if they get a new school with lots of with a gym that works? And I mean it technically if we start right now they've already gone through one year of no gym, no, you know, no office. The office is in the cafeteria. Um are those students being served if it takes five years for us? So all those kids will be gone. So it will be our enrollment is dropping. I'm not being negative. I'm being very very realistic. Our enrollment continues to drop in that area. We have 159 kids this year. So that could we have how many at last meet >> 170 at last meet Melrose 300 >> 230 at our enrollment has dropped in all of these schools. Um I I do think it's important that you understand what codes
041and standards will be if it crosses the 50%. Keith has the knowledge in that area of what we're going to be required to do. We will have to move the wastewater treatment plant. Keith, can you speak to any of that? So, so those FEMA rules that that Leslie's speaking of uh was a FEMA uh document that that was instituted many years ago that allowed communities to participate in the National Flood Insurance Program so our residents and our businesses could get flood insurance because many private insurance carriers stopped writing flood insurance. So the federal government said, "Okay, in order for for for Tom to be able to get the flood insurance, we have to have a program." Okay. So, so that's kind of so these are FEMA doc these are FEMA rules and actually they're in
042the federal code of regulations and those regulations based and speaking of the 50% uh rule that Jason keeps uh alluding to. Should we exceed that 50% rule when you choose to build a school back there, that school is going to have to be elevated 2 feet higher than the base flood elevation that FEMA determines across the property. Uh the the biggest the biggest thing with flood insurance currently and and FEMA's look at that is they're looking at risk. They're looking at the amount of risk that uh would be associated to either my home, your home, or in this case your school system uh there. And uh obviously that particular area is very high risk. It's it's it's not only in the flood plane, but there's uh there's a section of flood way that moves across
043that property. Um the the the difference in that is the flood way is where we have velocity movement of water that's relative to to the stream bank. So you know we get hydraulics that that you know the forces on the building that cause those issues that are more likely to cause collapse and that kind of thing. So when you're dealing with floodway it's it's a lot it's a lot more challenging to build in a flood plane that has a flood way versus just a flood plane. So I think the the level for my way of looking at this and and me and Leslie and and and Dr. Means and and Tom Atinson have discussed this. I mean we're looking or you all are looking at a very high level of risk to to do anything
044on that piece of property obviously and that's obviously not something you as a board or myself or anybody here obviously can change. I think that that all should be taken into consideration as you're looking at at at you know what what's the most feasible uh and financially responsible uh to do down there on that piece of property >> there I've looked at the West Virginia flood map it looks like there is property in the vicinity that's not in the flood zone would you agree with that >> Mr. Prudish, you're exactly right. Uh so so to complicate as if this is not complicated. So Mercer County hasn't had new flood data or flood maps since 2007. Okay. We're in the process of that. FEMA's been working actually the entire four years that I come to this
045job on new flood mapping for our county. Um it used to be um the entire school was in the floodway. Okay, that floodway actually is decreasing some with the new data on the property, but those maps aren't effective yet. We're waiting on there's a specific process of review and and public input to review the new flood maps before the county commission ultimately then votes. Yes, we're going to accept these and then those go into place. But for for regulatory purposes, we can use that new data. Um, but you're right, there is some property. There is a section there that's actually been moved to the 500year flood plane or the 02% chance of a flood. Uh, but the the majority of the property obviously is is very high risk and it's all within the 100-year flood
046plane. >> Actually, I I didn't mean the property we own. I meant in the vicinity of the property we own. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's >> there are places we could build in that vicinity uh outside of the flood plane. >> Yeah. And and that would be my suggestion. I mean, you know, none of us want to to see, you know, consolidation necessarily. I mean, I feel like our schools are kind of the roots of our community, but there is a point, there is a fine line, obviously, I think, uh, that that should be looked at to say, you know, is it feasible to to spend money on a property that we know is going to flood, okay? And the risk of that and the flood insurance cost of that over time. I mean, obviously,
047that's going to be up to you guys to make that decision. My job is to help you navigate the the flood ordinance or the rules that the county has to to make sure we all follow. Every resident in the county that chooses to build in a flood zone. >> I think I already know the answer to this question because when you every action has a reaction. So there we've kind of talked about this. There's no way to uh build any type of structure that would move that water or keep that water off that piece of property. Is there >> I would I would defer to architects and engineers for that. I I would say that you get into also again technical feasibility even even if there was a way to do it >> at a
048certain point FEMA will say that's just not feasible financially it's like it would be it would be even though it would be more to rebuild a school in a new location you're talking something that may be fourfold to protect that piece of infrastructure so I would ask the engineers if it would be technically feasible to get water away from the school. >> I think it would be important that not to interject because Keith's definitely not an engineer, but [snorts] any anything that we do on the flood plane, we've got to make sure that we're not transferring water or causing an issue both up or downstream. I mean, if you're speaking of something like a levy wall or something, [clears throat] >> I said there's there's a every action has a reason. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >>
049Okay, that's correct. >> Well, and I I think that the law was pretty clear. You can't divert water and dump it on somebody else. Uh even even if FEMA wasn't there, you would be buying a lawsuit eventually because you can't divert water. That's that's been the law forever and ever. >> Didn't they re remake the river in Grundy after the the terrible floods in 77? >> Yes, I'm from Grundy. That's where I grew up. >> Yeah, I was I was headed to Grundy that >> entirely moved. >> This whole town was That's not the only location that's happened. >> Everything was de demolished. all of the original most of the original buildings and and they moved the town. >> Question with with your experience with Nicholas and Canal counties problems and rebuild if I heard
050you correctly regardless of what's done they have to make FEMA requires them to have um flood insurance. Well, and then that's actually a a fantastic question, especially right now because we've just went through that issue with Canal County and are of course getting ready to go through it with Nicholas. If you stay in the flood plane, of course, they're going to mandate you get a policy if and pay for the total obligation, a policy that would cover the total amount, not just the percentage that the federal government gave, but the total amount. Now, if you move out of the flood plane, there is there is a passage within the Stafford Act that says you have to at least keep the minimum, which is $500,000, which is actually a little less than what you have now
051in the current school. However, right below it, it says unless the state insurance commissioner says otherwise, the the re the FEMA regional administrator for this very specific issue on insurance out of the flood plane is actually determined by the state insurance commissioner. And in this case, the state insurance commissioner, and Dave Stacy's well familiar with it, you're all agent because he just helped helped Canol County navigate it, is that if the state insurance commissioner says that no, they have an insurance policy that would cover all the normal wear and tear and damage to a normal facility that is outside of the flood plane and it's unreasonable to have flood insurance on it at all because it's miles away from the flood plane. they are properly insured, then you won't have to have flood insurance on
052the facility at all. But it will but it will take the state insurance commissioner to say so. >> So the guy that Leslie's working with is also their agent. >> He's already navigated this several times. >> He's our agent. >> Yeah. He's our agent, but he h he has not actually he does not handle our flood policies right now. That those are we haven't transferred those over yet. Um but he is helping us try to procure quotes for a new policy. So he's he's a part of that market and he has resources and access to other >> Absolutely. And he's >> underwriters or reinsurance. >> Dave has worked with >> we did. >> Yeah. I I think you have worked with Nicholas County. I would like to see their experiences too. >> Uh sure. We
053worked with both Nicholas and Cana on both their flood schools. Uh the Nicholas took the 428 plan. Cana did not. Although that helped Canal in the long run when they ran into that pu uh pyetic shale which nobody in the country had ever seen before. It was kind of a weird situation, but they spent millions of dollars extra to fix that for them. Nicholas County, if they would have run into something like that, they would have had to taken it out of their 428 money. They wouldn't have got additional funding. But um there's pros and cons to both. uh Nicholas County is able to build more than what they had because of the 428 money because at one time their high school the their high school was destroyed. So they got funding for the amount
054of kids that were in the high school and it was irreplaceable. So to bring it up to code. So, at what point do we as a group I mean since you're the ones that are putting together all the information and bringing it bringing it to us for consideration [clears throat] and I don't know about the other four but I have no experience in this. So, you know, I ask lots of questions every time because I want to try and understand before be being in a position to have to make a a vote, take a take a position on it. At what point do you or would you in a recommendation given all the factors that you've got, would you say yes, we do it, no, we don't? I would say that once FEMA has the
055opportunity to review the information from your architects and engineers that then they're going to come back probably within one to two months time and say we have made the determination you have or haven't what do you want to do and that's where you'd have to sit down and take a vote. Also I would say as well Chrissy and Mark from school building authority are on the the teams or Zoom call today as well. If if it starts to go that direction, technically on paper, it will be their project for because there's state law that says basically if you have federal funding for building a new school facility, it's actually their project which is for both Canal County and Nicholas County. They basically manage the funds. >> So they take over. >> No, that Chrissy, Mark,
056you're welcome to speak on that as well, but basically they don't take over. They just manage the funds. It's still based on what the county school board wants to do. Similar to our other SBA projects, we would still manage it and they review it. You know, they've always attended our project meetings and [clears throat and cough] track and then our draws come through through them. >> Um, but basically we need guidance as to how you want us to proceed. Do you want us to proceed with providing FEMA estimates to repair in place >> or do you want us to try to obtain funding for a new school or do you want us to look at 428 >> at this point? >> What can we what exposure can we afford? We don't know that we because
057we don't know what the total cost is going to be. So that's where we're >> that that's I mean like I said I asked I mean I'm not the smartest guy up here but that pretty much gives me how can we be asked and do you have to have when do you have to have this decision made today >> two weeks >> when when they determine the 50% >> right so let me ask architect and our and our engineers we're above the 50% rule most likely are we not >> you're really close I mean I'd have to get a get with the answers we provided them so far. If they want us to keep redoing the budget, we can. Uh the issue is for me and for you is going to be a time issue
058once that decision is made and just so everybody's on the same page. You're you're exactly correct. FEMA uh they do a great job, but they also have everything else in the country to look at. So when you you have to do environmental assessment of your of where you're going to go and that's going to take at least 18 months to a year minimum minimum of a year. Nicholas County took 18 months. I can't remember what Canal County took but you'll have to have or you'll have to have all kinds of H&H studies and everything else. So you won't be able to start construction for a year and a half. So those children are displaced at least for a year and a half before you can start anything and then however long it takes. >> And
059in in in Cana and both Canal and Nicholas we had to build temporary schools because they had no place to go. >> That brings me to a question is I mean you'd mentioned that there are parts of the school that students aren't currently in. Are the parts that they are in, I'm assuming they're they're safe, structurally sound to be in, or do you anticipate that to change due to the damage in the other parts of the facility? >> So Dave just had another person on site and he said that the cracks in the new section have continue to increase there. There are some rooms in that section that students are not using. in particular the bathroom on the hallway on the right that is towards facing the back. Um, one of the cracks he said
060has gotten big enough that he can put his hand in. It's safe right now. It is 100% safe right now. But if we don't mitigate the damage of the walls separating [snorts] because the flooding has over the years and particularly with this event damaged the [clears throat] >> the the foundation and structure. Um, we need peers on that side if we plan to use that building. >> Well, they didn't use any peers at all. No. >> In that construction, >> they just elevate it basically. say just as I hypothetical like I said I don't like to to to deal in hypotheticals but sometimes we have to is that it hypothetically if the damage that's not just deferred maintenance or something like that because of the the age of the building but something that the engineer
061can point to the flooding event that caused or exacerbated then and the school becomes unsafe then if you incur additional expenses either busing students to other facilities building a temporary facility like the portables and canal Nicholas counties. FEMA will also consider reimbursing those expenses as well. If they can connect the dots and tie it to the disaster, those dollars would be eligible as well. >> So, let's say we did go ahead. I >> I would just also say that there are two things. One, um they did say we need an H&H study and Thompson and Linton has agreed to help perform that. That is going to be about $30,000. >> H&H, >> hydraulics and hydrarology. Basically, it's what we were talking about earlier that any work that's done within the flood zone, how does it
062impact the rest of the world? Because it's everything is a domino effect when you when you deal with water. And the study would be using advanced computer modeling to demonstrate if if you were to do this work, whatever it might be, what would it do to the water? Would it push it all over onto US19 and then onto the post office across the road? Would it cause flooding downstream or upstream if if that the study would demonstrate if the the prescribed repair or whatever we're doing doesn't impact others, >> right? >> So, anything that you do in with regards to that is a hypothetical anyway. It's a well let's let's say it's you know I don't know whether it was Keith or this gentleman that that said the 500year plan >> then is are are
063do you have to take all that into consideration knowing that you know God can do anything he wants to do >> correct >> and it happens >> yes because as as a licensed engineer >> something like that >> as a licensed engineer when when when I place my stamp on the report and sign it I'm then liable for the information with inside. So what I do is I I go to the worst case scenario and I give it to our client and say now if you do this this is what happens and they're you're not going to come back on me and hold me liable for the decision. Um there Jason can tell you not normally with structures but there is work that is done within the flood zone all the time. Um especially with
064roads and bridges those same studies have to be done for every part of that. Um, and probably in this part of the state around 40% of our roads and probably about 70% of our bridges are within the flood planes. >> Well, let me ask a question that that seems to be directly toward this engineering study. If we can't get flood insurance, we can't afford flood insurance, then we're not going to be building there anyway. So, why are we doing the study? >> Well, it's and I'd let Keith talk to that is it would be a requirement for Keith to make his determination. >> It's a requirement, Mr. prudish uh in the flood rules that any development specifically in the flood flood way has to have an H&H study in >> we don't have any choice
065on that. >> That's correct. And the and the cost will be covered by FEMA. >> Okay. Well, that that's even better. >> Well, [laughter] let me let me rephrase. 90% >> they have a 90% rule, right? >> Well, no. Uh the 50% rule is a little different, but for the most federal disaster declarations, there's a 7525 cost share. 75% federal government, 25% not the federal government. For this disaster, due to its size and severity, the president authorized a 9010 split. So, there's additional federal funding. The 10% that the board of education lacks, you can request that directly from the governor's contingency fund, his rainy day fund. But yes, if if it is something that is necessary for the flood plane manager to make his decision one way or the other, then FEMA will cover that
066expense. >> Okay. All right. I also think it's important to note in the 50/50 rule, what they're giving us for estimates, that doesn't that doesn't include any elevation. This is just putting it back the way it was prior to flooding. >> That's what they base the 50% rule on. >> Correct. And it's a it's it's strange because most other grants don't require that. They just say, "Well, don't worry about how it was. What would you do to actually put it there the way it's supposed to be?" So, it's a confusing point, but we have to be able to say hypothetically, what would it cost to put it back exactly the way it was five minutes before the disaster? And then you can expand on that and say 5 minutes plus codes and standards, what is
067now required? And that can also help you to exceed the 50% rule. >> So, so that's a really important aspect right now in codes and standards because right now we do not have the building built to comply The proposal from our architect is not to bring it up to codes and standards and that could add additional costs to it if if that was required. And and I I'm just going to be honest. This is over my head. I I I'm not familiar enough with this to know really what I'm supposed to be providing FEMA right now related to this. you know, be interesting aside like they did elevate that when they built the new >> the new section. >> But what's interesting to me, the people in charge at that time, how did they decide
068the amount of elevation >> based on the amount of whatever was available [clears throat] at that time, which now there's a lot better computer modeling, things like that that would that would tell you where the flood plane actually is. you mentioned before about how they're redoing the flood maps, >> right? >> So, they may have been working on an old set of data >> and and I don't know, I mean, we have been very blessed to have great clerks of the works who've taught us a lot. In particular, when we put the propane tank in, they were elevating it in the back when we replaced the coal burners or the coal boilers. And Jean Bowers said they're building this up on a mound, but the compaction that it needs compaction testing. Have we learned that
069since then? Was there compaction testing? We we don't know but I do know that you know we have learned a lot since then and and that that mound did not suffer any damage. Now we don't have anything there but because of the compactions um of the soil and and the testing we did increase that a lot. So >> let's see. We currently we we had insurance. >> Yes. >> So does it make a difference >> if on reimbursement on how much we would recoup from that insurance? Okay. Could somebody talk? >> Yeah. Basically, as a general rule of thumb, FEMA does not duplicate funding. So if you had an insurance payout, let's say that I think you said Liz there 700 some odd thousand and FEMA obligated 5 million, they would just take 700,000 off
070of it. They would just do an in an insurance reduction. >> So the insurance it wouldn't matter. Our reimbursement doesn't matter depend upon the decision correct because it's a fixed amount. [snorts] >> Can we go back to that March one of last year? You said there's 12 months. >> I think it's March 8th, but somewhere beginning of March. >> Okay. So, we're we're a month away from that. Um, is there ever any um extensions given for things like that and something else you've got to apply for and wait your two weeks and and and see what happens. Obviously, there needs to be a reason for applying for that. Um, are you or the architects or whoever is involved or Keith uh because it's a county issue, are you all providing Lesley and Tom with the
071needed information to make that determination? >> As as FEMA comes back with other questions, we can advance that. Uh, right now, I believe that the regional administrator can wave it. of the FEMA regional administrator for FEMA region 3. I will investigate that when I get home later today to see if it's something that is a if it's written in law in such a way that it's just this is the deadline and that's it. Most of the time that I' I've seen the regional administrator will say this is your [snorts] timeline, but the regional administrator can provide an extension. So if if that if it is allowable under FEMA law or federal federal law and policy, we can ask for an extension. Well, the scary part is I've had a few conversations with Lushley about this
072when we're given more information than I asked more questions and and she made mention to it a minute ago. This is above her head. This is this is a stressful situation for her because we know what her expertise is and it ain't FEMA. So, is that between you and Mr. O and whoever else is involved or is it still the monkey still falls on her back? >> Well, my recommendation, this is something that I would also mention as well, not to not to throw more work on your all's local regional planning and development council, but region one, which is Jason Roberts. He's the executive director. I'm sure you all are probably well familiar with him. Jason Roberts is helping us in multiple federal disaster declarations within this region. He is also probably one of the
073most proficient regions. But we we have requested the regional planning development councils when we have applicants that are upside down underwater. They can't figure out which way to look. Look to people who have a foundation and knowledge who are quasi governmental. That means you don't have to go contract a consultant or a private contractor to help you navigate this. You can sign the Mercer County Board of Education can sign a memorandum agreement with Region One Planning and Development Council and say, "I will pay you X number of dollars an hour to help me navigate this." They have good experience. They're good people to work with as part of your FEMA project. It's a 9010 split, but you also get an additional 5% what we call an admin fund, a cat Z. Category Z is the
074last project put together, but they can do initial advance advance payments as far as putting it together. They will do an estimate and then you get 5% and there's no cost share on it. It's actually 100% federal funding. So, you'll have a nice little nest egg of admin money that's set aside to pay Leslie's time. Any other county staff, any other paid county staff that touches, looks at this, keep it wrote down on a notebook, napkin, don't care. That's 100% reimburseable if you engage in a consultant regional planning one development council. It's 100% of whatever they would charge you would be covered by this up to 5% of the total project. So there's funding that's available to help you all out. >> Leslie, are you familiar with with uh Jason at region one? >> I
075did reach out to him initially. Um and it was right during the time of the flood and and didn't receive much feedback. Um, >> did you get his email I sent to you the other day? His email address >> during the time while we have been and will be making this decision. Are we incurring more and more expenses than this right now? >> Yes, we absolutely are. Yes, we are paying our architect, our engineer. Um we we I mean it is at this point I think I do need your authorization to proceed with the $30,000 um H&H study um since it is required and I [clears throat] >> I guess my question is even to Jason if we think that it's not feasible that we can rebuild in place is this how we still continue
076to pursue >> okay >> still have to do the H& H and do everything that's involved. Even if at the end of the day we say let's do the 438. >> I would recommend it because it it's not just your opinion. Then there's a professional who's willing to put their stamp on it and say this is the way that it is. >> Well, we can we based on the the agenda, we can authorize that. So, we'll we'll deal with that in just a minute. Okay. After everybody's asked questions. >> Okay. And I would like to ask um a and if Dave has the time for some time and we analyze the complete project because there are some discrepancies between the insurance adjusters report the measurements when FEMA came. So we have three measurements. We've had
077FEMA there, we had our insurance adjuster and then we've had our architect. And part of the problem is they don't all agree. Um, so we really need, you know, to to take over the next few months or next few weeks to really get a fine project if this is how we proceed. And I assume our goal is to get over the 50% mark. Is that our goal? >> I don't think I don't think it's a goal or not a goal. I think it's going to be or not be. I I think it just falls in the category of it'll either be over 50% or it won't because we don't have any control over that really. >> The numbers are the numbers. >> Well, we we haven't submitted all of the numbers yet is what I'm
078I'm concerned about as well because I I kind of thought this was a reimbursement project and I was almost waiting for are you going to pay this back or not? Are we going to have to do this ourselves? I I have really no idea. >> And what's it is confusing. It's and this this particular grant program I hedge in calling it but it is under federal granted regulations is it's one of the most complex I'm sure everybody here has been in a position where their hot water tank is getting ready to go bad and you know that it's on its last leg. Well, if you have the chance while it's still kind of working to figure it out and to get different quotes from different people and you don't need to put in tomorrow, you
079can probably get the least cost. But if it completely poops out on you and you got to call a contractor in the middle of the night, you'll pay whatever it is. Well, that's what people do to FEMA. They take it's like it's an emergency. Here's the biggest bill and they just expect the federal government to pay for it. So, the only experience I think the county's had with this is the flooding at the middle school. And we did we did build a retaining wall, I believe, to divert water so it doesn't come directly into the >> into the gym anymore. Yeah, it it was a much easier project. We had Oakville and and Princeton Middle at this that time. And we did Main Street put in new new drainage. We put in a whole new
080storm water system there from the city back on Johnson Street that it has an inlet. And we did build a retaining wall to keep the water out of the gym and it worked. >> Um >> that's I think those those are the two instances where we've had experience with this and neither one of them were huge projects. And they've also change. I mean, every year it's I get I get questions all the time. Well, tell me about this. And I was like, you have to tell you have to ask me a more specific question about the project with a specific applicant and a specific disaster because if you change any one of those, I'm going to give you a different answer. Every year, the federal government changes the laws, policies, and rules that govern this
081program, and they've done so just recently. So, we help the applicants navigate the rules that are on the playing field when the ball snapped. That's the direction we're going. And again, I would also say that yes, we are not trying to exceed the 50% rule or stay under it. We're just whatever the numbers are is what the numbers are, but the 50% rule is in play. Technical feasibility. Is it even technically feasible to get a permit to do this work in the flood plane? That's component. And then also if you can't insure it, if you get letters back from multiple insurance companies that say we're not going to give you a policy no matter what the cost, FEMA's going to it's like you cannot insure the facility even if we hypothetically chose to rebuild it
082in the flood plane. That's also going to force FEMA to look at alternatives to move the school somewhere else. So there's like those I would keep those three things in mind. Leslie, these options that he has proposed, have you had these had time to digest these and come up with numbers, so to speak, or >> No. No. I >> I think that we're we're really narrowed down to those three, and I don't know that repair in place is an option. Um, but repair in place provided we can get the permits, get the flood insurance, and and I should know in the next few days if we can even get flood insurance. Um, repair in place, build a new school, or choose the section 428. To me, those are the three options that we're really looking
083at. >> Those are all the ones that are over the 50%. Well, repair in place is it doesn't have to exceed the 50%. But again, we we have the issue of the wastewater treatment plant. I don't really understand how they can be separate because you cannot have students there if you don't have a wastewater treatment plant. So, before we can start touching the building, we have to bring it up to codes and standards. And that has >> that has to be elevated. I was going to say I'm not an engineer, but I you can't leave it the way it is. It's got to be elevated. So, now we're back to that same idea of how high do you elevate it? Is it going to be safe? You know, mother nature doesn't really care what we
084build. She can usually tear it up and water is one of the most destructive forces out there. Um, you can put pillars in and it just slides the building off the pillars. There are so many things that we can't control and and if you look at the flood map, you know, it's clear mother nature has used that as part of the river for a long time. uh in spite of the fact that we probably haven't had a lot of flooding in the building per se, you can tell over the many many years that water has got there because it it's uh it just keeps sinking down toward the river. So you call it floodway, right? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um, I don't know how you build something secure enough in a flood plane
085to keep water from eventually damaging it. I I just don't I don't know how you do that. Uh, elevating again, walls get pushed over. We see that all the time. You know, flooding is tough. And the cost of elevation may be so wildly expensive that FEMA just says we're not going to >> technically favor. >> We're going to look at the least cost alternative. It may take $20 million to elevate that facility. You could build a new one a mile away from consider that option if it's not cost effective. >> Well, we we know we can't build a school from 10. We've got experience on building schools. We're looking at the 18 to 25 range, I'm sure, uh, to build a new school. But still, that that's if the cost of the wall costs 20
086million, then you're you're not going to get FEMA to go along. And I understand that. Um, >> and I would like to make sure that everyone understands this is not going to be a summer project that we can get done. We typically do all our summer projects [clears throat] and um, this is not going to be finished by this summer or next summer. It it's going to be a long process. >> When you say this, what are you what are you referring to? >> Spanish B. The repairs of Spanish B. That one whole section is down to the concrete. We have not done any repairs yet because we don't know what to do. So, >> we're talking about the the the section that's on ground level. >> The section that's on ground level that is
087flooded. We pulled up the gym floor. So, we have the old gym floor that has holes in it and it was damaged, which is why we put a new floor on top of it to begin with. >> 1977. >> The rubber the rubberized floor. >> Yeah, the rubberized floor is there. Those kids I mean there's we have instant the studs in the office area, the principal displaced, the secretaries, the students, the resource, everything in that school. They're making it work, but this could be years if we don't take different action. So, I I do not have the answers, but I just want to present all of th that information to you all as a board. >> Well, and I I don't really like to do this in open session because what we discussed earlier about
088property, but in order to keep all our options open, we need to start looking to see what availability there is. >> Uh because a lot of that property in Spanishburg has been owned by families for generations and they're not going to readily say, "Oh, yeah, sure. Take 12, 15 acres of my land. No problem." So, we need to know. I mean, it's it's another element of us understanding the entirety of the project so we can figure out what the the best option is. So, we need to start looking just just so we have that in our pocket and we know what we know what we can do. Well, there's the dead silence, which means I think we talked it to death. >> Austin, do you have anything to add? I hate to come to a
089meeting and not get a word. That's no I agree with the doc last minute deciding on these options. That's the stuff right now. Well, we can we can meet quickly. I mean, we we've got a three-day notice to the public that we have to comply with because of Open Meetings Act, which is fine. So, we can meet fairly quickly like we did here uh to make the decision once we know what our options are. Now, again, I'm leaning toward the it's going to be above the 50% rule because, you know, I've just thought about it for Leslie sent me this stuff a week ago. So, uh I've just I don't see how we get below the 50% rule, which is three options. Uh and then we have to decide, you know, as a practical matter.
090Uh it is unlikely that we're going to be able to meet the requirements to build in place. It's just unlikely. I We're not We didn't make the rules. We don't like the rules [clears throat] necessarily, but they're the rules and we have to follow them. We can't find insurance. We can't build there. That's that's that's not a a decision. and that's a mandate. So, we have to operate within the confines of the rules that we have in front of us. And we'll do that uh with the mind always trying to make sure it's what's best for the kids in that building. That's ultimately the goal. Uh we do have some people from uh Charleston, Michael Whitlo, uh >> and I don't I'm not sure who is here from the SBA, but if you have any
091comments, we'd certainly appreciate it. >> Um actually, we have Jordan Kirk, our CFO. Um my name is Christina Das. I do the federal compliance. Um once you're awarded ECW, you'll be working with me quite a bit. Um if it does fall under us as an applicant, um we have Mark Miller who also was a part of Mark and I both have been a part of Canel and Canal and Nicholas County disasters and um we also have we also have Patrick who is um just the architect of your county. Um we um stand by, you know, the decisions that the county makes. Um we really at this point we let the county make their own decisions on um you know whether you want to build where you are um consolidate and relocate or and just relocate
092all together. That's something that the county does. The SBA does not um provide input into that decision. The county at this point does have control. >> Good morning. Thanks for having me on your um and to listen in. Um and thanks for everybody's hard work. Sounds like a lot of wheels have been turning and whatever we can do to support, you know, expedite any processes that we would need to do definitely be on board with that um and support the county in their decision. you know, kind of thought is any opportunity to get out of the flood plane is a is a good choice um just because of the disruption to finances and education that the floods cause. Um but ultimately it is Mercy County's decision support, you know, help whatever we can do. >>
093Thank you all so much. If you guys would like to have any further discussion on, you know, some of those pros and cons of the 428 and um the direct refuge, you know, you can reach out to us at any time. We've definitely had um a lot of experience with both of those. Um and then you have questions as to some of the pros and cons, we would be happy to discuss those with you guys um oneonone or via email or via the phone call. >> Absolutely. I suspect when when we finally get the information on whether we're above or below the 50% rule, we'll want to have you back so we can get more information from you about the best approaches, the best ideas, and the best timeline. >> Great. >> Yes. I think
094our estimate in building a new school like just if you take red as an estimate, what's our general estimate? I mean for us without FEMA learning it's two to three years you know to build a new school. So when you add the other layers >> yes I can definitely tell you that that environmental study we have seen that um not go under a year for any project. So you have to add that to a rebuild as well >> executive session. >> So >> we have to have a legal reason to go in executive session. Can I ask if Miss Booth could could add anything to this? I know that she's back there. She's living it. Um, we're talking about her students and she may have seen changes in in the school as well. Could she
095please make sure she has a mic? >> First of all, just like to thank all of you, especially Leslie. I know she's put in an incredible amount of work on this. um you know when you live at the school you're emotional when you go through something like this. So you know it's traumatic um to see the flood to have to went through the flood. Um you know I like what you said Greg about the kids you know it's all about the kids and giving them the best that we can give them and we have to do that within the knowledge that we have. So just listening today, um I think there's two options that could give better to the kids. Um so you know, I know you guys will consider that carefully. You know, we're
096going to be okay with whatever decision you make. >> Are you are you doing okay now? >> Yes, we are. Mhm. I mean, of course, you know, there's there's challenges that we have to deal with, but we are doing okay. I'm not going to say it's per perfect down there, but we're okay. So, for the next three to four to five years, and we operate in that school in the in the condition it's in and going forward, that is something that I will need to know what you all decide so that I can provide budget information so that I can budget accordingly. understanding now that how long this process is going to be. I think it's important that the school and the students and the parents understand that and the teachers and the staff understand
097and that the architects can tell us will the school be stable for the next four to five years. >> So it might behoove us then to ask every parent of every child in that building or or a perspective what they'd like to do with that information. It's the more information we have the better decision we can make. There's no doubt about that. So, if we can get the community's input, uh, and they come back and they're extremely in favor of one or the other or they're split, at least we know, uh, because they need to recognize that was we've discussed if if we if we proceed with relocation and reconstruction, what group of kids are going to be affected? You know, is it my fifth grader? Well, they're going to be gone. Well, I've got
098a first grader and I've got a I've got a toddler at home. Well, now they're going to get the whole what we have now currently. So, we need to The more information you have, the better decision you can make. It's just that simple. >> I agree. And I think the architect we we should call upon the experts to I don't know what kind of structural analysis could take place, but to see Okay. I I would like to contract with ZMM to to provide us an estim outlook for the next four to five years as to because again we've not stabilize that side of the building. >> Understood. >> I knew this was going to happen in the we had 10 in snow. And then we expect two inches of rain. I knew I' been there
099since the luggage very carefully. I guess what I'm getting though We don't know what mother it'll be easy to flood now because all the ground's frozen for the water melts. It's going to get worse. >> Is it going to melt is the question? >> I hope it does. I guess five years. >> We can look at five years, but we don't know what you may want to think about if another flood occurs. And we can always readjust again. If if the building is is deemed safe to be in right now just by relocating students from one side to the next and and it remains a stable situation, so be it. But if that situation changes and if somebody condemns that building, if an official based on information shared by architects and engineers, subject matter experts,
100if they say this facility is no longer safe to be in, and the county board of education incurs additional costs either busing kids to new locations or potentially building portables, that would also be potentially eligible for reimbursement through FEMA as well. Okay. Well, we've unfortunately had experience with the portables when when uh Brush Fork had a section of the building that we could no longer utilize. Uh we had to a really sharp custodian noticed something. Engineers came in and said, "You got to shut this part of the building down." So, we spent a million a year approximately on portables. Uh that's a good business to be in apparently. Um, so, so we have some experience with that, but you don't want to put portables down there either because those things float off in a flood.
101>> Well, and FEMA will not reimburse >> if it's not put in an area that that couldn't potentially happen. >> That makes perfect sense. >> They would have to FEMA would have to agree to do an environmental analysis on the actual temporary location to make sure that there's no issues with the site, that it's out of the flood plane, that you're not going to create yet another issue. >> Gotcha. So to say that if you have costs that you incur that are reasonable and necessary, FEMA will consider reimbursing them. >> Okay, good. >> Anybody else have any other thoughts, comments or ideas? Just one thing I wanted to say from our experience is, you know, in the public eye, none of this is ever popular and I feel really bad for everyone involved in us
102to make these decisions and we throw the weight on your shoulders and some of the issues that we've had with relocating these schools and the unpopularity of how long they take because generally when the public when someone decides to build a school, the public finds out once that piece of land has been chosen once the environmental well the environmental may not be required but it's the So to the public eye, when you rebuild a new school, they think it should take just a few years. Well, what they don't understand is, you know, this is an emergency situation. You have to now look for property. You have to you go through the legal process of getting a property. You have to go through the environmental study. You have to go do the ground prep. Then you
103have to go through the actual construction. Usually when the public hears about it, you're in the construction phase. And they think a school's going to be done in just a couple of years. So it's not always that popular. um time frame for the public eye and um everyone involved with we'll have to have heavy shoulders for that because we've all seen that happen in both counties. >> Thank you. Um Mark, the grounds for a a executive session or personnel issue, student discipline litigation, purchase of real estate, or an evaluation of the county superintendent. Does your request meet one of those? >> I was looking at the real estate option. >> All right, sir. Are you making a motion to go in executive session? >> Second. >> Regarding the purchase of real estate. >> Okay. So,
104Mark's made the motion. Paul's made the second. I'm sorry, Jim's made the second. All in favor of the motion. Signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Likewise. That motion carries. Four in favor, none opposed. Folks, we're going to go in executive session for the sole purpose of discussing the purchase of real estate. And we will return in a minute. This shouldn't take too long. We are back in regular session after a brief discussion in executive session regarding the purchase of real estate. So what we need to do today so we can move forward with this project regardless of what we decide ultimately is we need a motion to approve an engineering what is it called a >> H&H study uh and the approximate cost is $30,000. Is that correct? So is there a motion? >> There's
105a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion then on the motion? All in favor signify by saying I. I oppose. Likewise. That motion carries. Four in favor and none opposed. Um that is the only thing we got left today. That was the only action item we had. Uh I want to appreciate everybody coming in and giving us information that they had. It was very valuable to us. It will help us moving forward make better decisions. Uh whenever we have conversations like this, it's the it always works best when it's a conversation because it gets everybody as much information as they possibly can get. Um, so, uh, >> I would like to say one thing. I would certainly recommend that, >> um, the the county board of education, uh, at least discuss having an
106MOA memorandum of agreement with your local regional planning and development council. I think that if you have to break the glass and Leslie needs some extra assistance to help navigate this federal tapestry, it would be handy. Okay, that's why I asked earlier and I was really >> concerned that she got no response. >> Well, >> it was in the middle of the chaos and I did get a response. I just asked for engineering help um at that point which Jason is not something that he was a little overwhelmed with. But as far as grant management, project management, navigating federal grant requirements, that is something that he and his staff do do very well. Now granted, he may have to hire additional staff, but at least this having a conversation with region one council would set
107you all up for success if you have to break the glass and get some help for Leslie. >> Well, we have a meeting on Monday. So, if you'll get all that prepped for us, we can talk about it on Monday. Make it an action item. So, there there is a there a question has come up and it needs to be addressed while we're all here. So during COVID, we received a a significant amount of money and we used it to improve Spanishburg. We did a good deal of of work down there. It's my understanding under those rules at the time that if you vacate, eliminate, or just give up the building, but you have to pay it back. Will FEMA cover those costs? >> I'll find out. >> That's an excellent question and and we
108owe that to Micah. >> Thank you, M. Um, we did put at least $3 and half million dollars in ESSER funding in Spanish. Um, but I will find the exact amount and get that. And this might be a question for FEMA or I know [snorts] we have an NFI. Um, it it is a notice of f federal interest basically kind of like a lean on Spanishburg through the federal government. So, we did do that and we will have to investigate that as well. Well, if we vacate if we vacate the premises, they can have the property [laughter] and they can tear the building down and do all those things. [laughter] >> So, before we leave here, do we have do you I say we isn't that good. Is there a plan of action with a
109time frame moving forward? So, you know, you want to get stuff prepared for the board meeting on Monday. Is there anything else with the staff with with emergency management with this gentleman and with those folks? >> We had a brief meeting during your executive session and um I think we all agree on a plan. Um I'm going to devote as much time as possible to working with Dave, getting him all the information and with FEMA. Um the website's complicated. I I will work with him and try to get as much help to get him the information. Thompson the Linton is going to do the H&H study and we're going to give them a comprehensive look at all of the costs. Um we'll give that to FEMA and we'll have that within the next two weeks.
110>> Well, I can tell you and I know I'm speaking for the board when I say we have the utmost confidence in you and the people that are working with you to get this done the way it needs to be done and try not to work too many extra hours, okay? Um because I know you will. Um do your use your resources. Let's tap into to region one and everybody else, Mr. Canó, whoever you need, tap into them so we can get this done the right way. >> Absolutely. >> Um and uh I want to thank everybody for coming, Dr. Means, Mr. Canó, uh ZMM, Joe PAC, Austin Bis, Courtney, Nice, everybody that came with us today. Um >> Mr. Whitlo and >> I guess I again I'm I'm sorry but who the people from
111SBA I'm sorry I didn't catch your name but uh the only way this works and works most effectively for our kids in Spanishburg is if we all work together. So that's what we're going to do and we will try to come up with the best absolute plan for those young people and make this work. So if there's nothing further to come before the board. >> Is there any objection?