001us. It's just an option. So, those are the conversations we've been having. We're continually having them. Um I've met with the teacher that was um disgruntled about it. Um actually, Mr. Bailey walked in as as we were having the conversation. So, um you know, I I think that from you guys's perspective, you wanted the associate degree and you know, that was something you guys sent Miss Mitchell and out. We we went all over and that's how other places were doing it. and we're so behind what these other states are doing and what these other districts are doing. So it's like, you know, continually to do things like we've always done it is not going to get us the results that we want for our kids. Agreed. So that's that's where we're at. >> Well, you
002you've u you know, the board's made the decision and you've been given your marching orders and you're marching. That's this is just a way for us to become more informed about I >> Yeah. Yeah. And I want to be clear that the concerns I didn't have any I've not had any teachers approach me. So that's not where my concerns were coming from. Mine were coming from as I said like one parent came to me and then they probably told the other ones and that's why they came to me. But um I and I mean and I get that it's difficult to define rigor and that there are so many differences in institutions. I mean I grew up in the land of higher ed with my mother my whole life. So I get all that. So,
003I just >> Well, and I would love like if if you want to tell them, hey, reach out. I would love to know like what what parts of the program they thought didn't prepare them because that's something that we can look at changing because that's not feedback that we've gotten, right? >> Um that's not what we've heard from the students that we talked to. But I would love to know, you know, that perspective like what that >> and it could even be a change in perspective. This the ones that I talked to were all new college students and this has been a while ago that they came to me. It's just now that we've had a work session. >> I agree with Mr. that if we don't have these >> go ahead started a parent
004would come in and have this complaint concern and I I would point out to I think time is a reason >> I' point This is again personal perspective that a lot of dual credit you have to keep in mind dual credit class we'll say biology class all these kids they're not going to be medical school they're going to have a liberal arts education where they have to have three science classes to get that college and I point that out to them and I and I would even though may not be pro factual today. Maybe our dual credit classes are geared to those kind of students. And I'd say, well, why would you want to do that? I'll tell you why. Because instead of that kid having to worry about biology, they can worry about their
005subjects when they're >> absolutely [clears throat] >> what I would suggest to them is if they're going to become a doctor or going to medical school, then maybe they need to take a for sure. If they're going to take But if they're going to become an engineer, they probably don't need an AP biology class. Now, that's up to you as a parent, >> right? >> But it's just perspective. >> Well, ultimately, what you said is the way I view this now, and that is is here's the offerings. It's up to the student and the parent to decide which ones to take. It's not for us to make that call. >> And I'm going to pick on Mr. Simon. He's in here. But on any given day, how many kids would you guess that you and
006I advise parents and kids? >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's a lot. Um he he actually made a funny comment a couple months at the beginning of the year. He was like, "I've never done this at Bluefield. This is different." Because, you know, we don't have a guidance counselor. It's he and I. >> So, we sit down and we look at where do you plan to go? What do you plan to take? What are your goals? And we look at, you know, what's best for each kid. And like with our grow your own program, we had a meeting with the state yesterday. So they had really pushed this apprenticeship route and they were really into it and then that money's gone. So they're looking at ways that they can change the grow your own
007program to make it more applicable statewide. So they were wanting our infrastructure of like how are you graduating kids with an associate? We want to make this universal that every grow your own program in the state can do this because when they graduate they can sub. So these kids that get their associate can immediately sub and that's a financial burden that's taken off because you can set your courses to only go Tuesday and Thursday and Monday, Wednesday, Friday you're making sub pay. Yeah. So she was like what's that infrastructure look like? How are you doing that? So I sent her everything and she was like I want to make this universal. She said every school in West Virginia should be able to do this. So, she's looking at the community colleges and wanting them to
008get more involved in the grow your own programs, which is really cool, I thought, because it is it is a opportunity for a kid. You know, I had to work after school and whatever. But if they could sub, that keeps them in our system and it keeps them tied to So, that's >> Can they sub as a teacher or as an aid or >> No, they can sub as a teacher. >> They can sub as a teacher with an associates degree. I don't think I didn't realize that >> the the in spite of some people disagreeing with the philosophy, it's for the parent and the student to decide if they want to take AP or dual credit when I I I I think AP's great, but the reality of it is you don't get college
009credit unless you take and pass >> the test. >> And they can take both. I mean, we have so many kids that take both AP and dual credit and our numbers AP and passing are not great. >> I mean, that's just a reality. Again, talking about facts, >> to get a high level score to get subject level credit, too. So, yeah. >> So, so um it comes down to the parents and the students, not what we want, but what they want. This is about opportunities, and that's what we've done. And if the state's looking at us and saying we're want to do what you're doing and model it to the whole state, we're obviously doing it well, which is, you know, that's what we expect down here. We expect >> always room for improvement. Definitely
010things that we're trying to do different, but um I think from where we started to where we are now, it's definitely gotten better. >> Well, I would think you you learn you learn which you go, "No, not that professor. >> No, not that professor." >> Well, I feel much better about the situation and I appreciate you all monitoring And I would I would love please you know whoever they were just say pop in you know I would love to hear you know what we can do better to make that transition easier >> because a lot of times it's a transition issue like >> and if we can help facilitate that that's helpful >> absolutely know >> right well we need we didn't know what we didn't know what all you all were doing to monitor
011so I feel much better about the situation so thank you as as an exap teacher. Let me just make a couple comments from what I've heard. First of all, the rigor in AP class, I think it's easy to find out what percentage of the students take the test and what percentage of those pass. My classes, I had 70% pass and 100% took the test. I had a rigorous class. I felt sorry for those kids. >> Yeah. >> But you have others who are not like that at all. [laughter] Okay. You know what they call the the person that's dead last in their class at medical school? >> Doctor. [laughter] >> Um, so you know, it it's all it's all relative, but I >> I think it's our responsibility to off opportunities. It's up for the
012students and the parents to decide whether they take those opportunities or not. That's what this should all be about is here's every here's a menu of items. Pick the ones that are best for you. If that's what your choice is, we are absolutely good with that. We should not be interfering with their choices. And if people are interfering with their choices, then we need to address that with those people straight up and tell them stop. It shouldn't be a conversation about what is your opinion. It should be stop interfering with students and parents' choices. Okay, >> good conversation. >> Y >> and last but probably not least, probably most important >> uh is expulsions. Where are we at expulsions this year? >> 52. >> And how many of those are vaping? >> 42. >> Okay.
013So, we have a problem. And it it's seemed to tell off a little bit now. I will say that. Maybe the holidays are coming and >> um >> it was really it was really going this fall. >> Dr. Bowling three. >> We got three coming but not so right. >> So we're so we're we can't you know there's all we can do is throw kids out and that's the exact opposite of what we want to be doing. And I know we've got some information back here we're going to talk about here in a minute. Uh, so, uh, one of the things I wanted to talk to her about was changing the expulsion law to allow us to offer what I'm going to call probation, which is we're going to expel you and now you're going
014on probation. If you do these things, then you get to come back to school. If you violate any rules, then you're out until the end of your expulsion. Period. Now, there's a way around it without using the we can do it through memorandums with the parent now, but it would be better if it was statutory. Um, it doesn't take away the superintendent's authority because it's statutory to let someone come back at any time because that's again that's part of the statute. But we have to find a way to keep kids in the building even when they do things they shouldn't, but make it um a Dr. Sego taught me about BF Skinner way back in the day and it has always stuck with me and that's negative reinforcement. You take away things that kids like
015and it's more effective. You know, according to Skinner, punishment doesn't work. It's positive and negative reinforcement. A negative reinforcement is taking away positive uh reinforcers. So if we can make it so students go, I really don't want to go through that. They may think twice about whipping out the vape. I mean, you know, fighting is emotional. It's hard to deal with that one. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. But vapes are a choice. >> I will say to your comment that they are decreasing, >> right? >> In October, we had 22 that were the illegal substance so far in November. And the ones that will have that are coming are not illegal. They got one day. >> We have five. So, we went from 22 in October to five in >> Again, they're
016starting to understand the date for those. Yeah. That's about that. Okay. Okay. >> That were serious about it. But, but that's also 42 kids that were out of the building learning virtually, and that's not the best way to do this. >> And and we did more positive information. And I think all the schools do have no vaping right outside the bathroom. We didn't have that probably 3 weeks ago. >> Uh some of those things there and the announcements there since Brent put in the little >> Well, the vicatasa's there were still a bunch of them, but he just recently and he and I discussed this for quite some time. He's putting these things that communicate outside to a speaker and it either plays music or says you're busted or whatever you want it to say.
017[laughter] And >> that's funny. >> It's It's cut it down significantly. >> Oh, wow. >> And he got one. >> Good job. >> We owed the kid just to let them know that was there, too. We didn't >> And they're finding other places to go, but there's But it has it has gone down significantly. And as a result of that, what I think we need to do, Greg, is to consider going to the county commission and asking for some to put these in all of our schools since it is drug >> some of the some of the settlement money, >> some of the the government money so we can put them in all high school and and middle school. I think where I've come around on this after doing all these expulsions the last couple
018of years is is expulsion needs to be a tool that is rare and if we do expel it there needs to be a provision to get them back in the building in quick order. >> Yeah. >> In a situation that is unpleasant enough that they learn the lesson. >> That being said, we can still do that even if it's not at the state level. Is that correct? >> I I I my understanding is is if we we can expel and then enter into a memorandum of understanding with an parent if the child's under 18 with the child if they're over 18 and say these are the criteria you have to meet in order to come back and then when you come back when you're in school these are the criteria you're going to have to
019follow. I think not if that does not come to pass then we definitely need to go down that path because I think students need to know the boundaries. They need to know where they can make where they can't as a joke. But uh um but if they know the boundaries and know what they have to do, then they're more likely to do than just be random saying you can't do something. I'm saying >> I know what you're saying. >> So we have some information that has been done research on. So if you'll come up here and talk to us about it or you get a as long as you got a mic, you can sit right there. But we need you to have a mic. Miss Aliff has done some some research on this issue
020so we can figure out an alternative to just sending kids home and giving them a computer to look at. It's it's just not the best choice. >> Okay. Um so what I have looked at is uh I looked at the numbers across the state of expulsions uh per county and we are about twice twice as many students as the next county um in the whole state. Twice as many. We're number one by double in the whole state. >> No no no we're not double the whole state. >> No I mean but double any other county that's closer. Yes. >> Wow. Yes, we are. >> That's for overall expulsion numbers. >> That's yes for every for every county in the state. Okay. >> Most of the they I couldn't get the information if it was less
021than 10 students. So, you know, probably three quarters are less than 10 students in that uh list of uh data there >> which is how we used to. >> So, so we are you know like I said double almost. It's I think 40 42 and 72 uh are the the two numbers. Ours was at 72 last year and 42 was the next. So uh just some >> Is that for expulsion? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. So I I feel like that um a lot of of what we are doing does not really mesh very well with policy 4373 which uh talks about how the consequences should be proportionate and educational. I definitely think we're missing that educational piece. Um, and as educators, I think that we should always be looking at how to teach
022our students uh, so that they can end up with the best life they can possibly have. And we are right now we're missing that. And so, um, >> why do you say that? >> Because we're just putting them out of school without them having any kind of education about what what they're doing to their bodies. Oh, so they should not the fact that we're putting them out, but that they need to have a educational Yeah. >> very Yeah, I agree. >> Yeah, we're we're we're sending them home and and probably a lot of them are in the environment >> uh that they picked up some of these habits in and we're not educating them on the dangers of that or the consequences of it. And so I do feel like we need to have an
023educational piece that goes along with um any type of punishment that we you know um give to the students. Um and so I found um there's there is a a program that would require that there be a facilitator at the school that would run through this program with the students. There's about five modules and it's through Stanford education and so there would have to be somebody at the school level trained to be able to do it and it would if we unless we had something outside of the school day it would almost have to be a one-on-one situation because they're at different times throughout the year. So you each student would be in a different place. So there are about five modules that the student would need to run through with a with a facilitator.
024Um those modules include things like full full of potential your brain cannabis free healthy body healthy uh youth effects of uh cannabis on the body. Um healthy people healthy communities is the cannabis history misleading [clears throat] and all these different uh modules. and that education component that I have felt like we've been missing [clears throat] here in Mercer County. >> How long the program is that? How many when you say five >> each? They're different for each, you know, however quickly you move through the module, but I would look about an hour a piece right around there. So, you're looking at about five hours of education for the student with a facilitator. Um that is what we're you know we we don't want these kids growing up and and being generational of what they've grown
025up in. We want something different for them if they are uh growing up in in an environment where that's just the norm. And so education is the only thing I feel like that can change that. Um it's it's elementary all the way through. there's there are modules for elementary, middle and high school. >> So just along the since we have to provide the facilitator uh one of the things that I have contemplated about this process is again falling in that category of negative reinforcement. if the class has to be Friday evening or Saturday morning at a location of our choice. Uh and it's and since it's an hour each, you could stage it over five weeks and it uh disrupts their u enjoyment of their free time a little bit. So again, it's not punishment,
026it's taking away something positive. We're going to require you to come to this if you want to come back to school quicker. But I'd love the idea of using the education. I know the the uh health department is working on something similar to this. uh because of vaping is so important to to one of our county commissioners and he wants to stomp it out and and uh I've said this many times to the students and their parents during expulsions, but one of the unintended consequences of having legalized just 10 minutes from here uh cannabis is that it's easily it's more readily accessible to kids that didn't have access to it before. And you'd be amazed at how many of our expulsions are the kids that you're not expecting. >> Well, and that's something else I
027want to mention. But first, let me say this. Um, I have to do, you know, I do orientations for all the students who are expelled. I have to show them what they have to do to get into proximity, how it works, where their classes are, times, all that. um that I have a number of students who I have to do that um online with in a team's meeting because they do not have transportation. So if we were to require them to come to a centralized location in the county for some of them it may be impossible. >> Well we fix that by letting them do it online but they still have to do it Friday evening or Saturday morning. >> Well and you [laughter] know and that's that's okay but that's you know I want
028you to know that do it. That's that's good comment, right? >> Yeah, that is something that I do have issues with and you know and and have to schedule kids outside of regular orientations. >> You know something I I hear what you're saying, but the hard side of me says they got money to buy these things. They should be able to figure out transportation. They got money to get to the vape shop or wherever. So, >> yeah, but who who is getting it from the vape shop? >> I mean, you were talking about the cost of a car. I don't think they're getting >> as opposed to the cost of a vape. >> I don't think they're getting them for free. I really don't. >> Well, I don't either, but I What I'm saying is
029as you we all know that we have students who are uh supported by their parents, encouraged by their parents, helped by their parents that are in the same boat as the kids who don't have that. We have students who do not have support from their parents. Like I said, a lot of times the reason that they're in this situation is because they have no support or encouragement at home. Uh the priorities in those homes are not transportation uh necessarily. The priorities in those homes are probably drug use. Um so, you know, and the child has very little control over what their parents do. Um, so consider consider that as well. Another thing that I would like for you to think about is I've had a number of students who have been pulled out of CTE
030programs. And a number of students [clears throat] who have been pulled out of AP and honors and dual credit programs. And what what that does is even if they're out for nine weeks, they can't be a completer >> if they miss nine weeks of school. And so that takes away uh something that might help them in the future uh with getting a job. It's going to take away their opportunities to learn um uh uh what they need to in order to gain credits, college credits or we have to make exceptions. you know, we and you know, seems like a lot of times the ones we want to make exceptions for are the parents who are the ones who are squeaky [clears throat] wheel, who are, you know, wanting their the very best for their child.
031And so we are making exceptions um where teachers aren't happy that they're they're still responsible for the students getting their schoolwork and all those things because they're in dual credit or AP classes and [clears throat] the parents don't want them to miss out on that. >> Yeah, I think we need to be consistent in that policy. >> Well, I would I would agree. I would agree. But then then there you go. You've got a student who is on a really good track. >> Yeah. who's going to be derailed because of a nineweek expulsion. >> And and I agree with all that, but I also come from a background of law enforcement and and law where the person that's a first time [clears throat and cough] offender uh that has not been a problem. The court's
032not near as hard on them as the one that's been a problem and this isn't their first offense. There there is there is an element of this that has to be sent out to the world and that is you have to be responsible for your behavior and there have to be consequences. I I don't want to interfere with the AP dual credit and the CTE. I I [clears throat] understand that because it's not like going you can keep up with your you can keep up with your English class and then go back to school >> and you're still there. I understand that. But by the same token, we need to be mindful of the fact that they brought I mean, we got to remember these are THC vapes. These aren't these aren't tobacco vapes. This
033is illegal substances. >> As I said to somebody the other day when they were fussing at me, I said, "So, if they bring a if they bring a dime bag into the school with marijuana leaf in it, >> is that okay with you?" "No, no." And I said, "It's exactly the same thing. There is no difference. It's just a different form. >> I would argue that the bait pins are more dangerous. >> I totally agree with you. [laughter] I tell them that expulsions. I agree with you. But the bottom line is is that that it's an illegal substance and we're starting to see unfortunately kids handing these off to each other, which is possession with delivery. Oh, yeah. Which is a felony. And so at some point you have to look at them and go,
034I know you're 16 and I know this isn't the smartest thing in the world to do, but you got to pay consequences for this behavior because you know better. >> Well, we have two groups of students here. Uh one group is a group who are cons pretty much consistently in trouble, have done things disruptive in the classroom and those kinds of things. And then we have these students who have really never been in trouble. >> Yeah. And our first interaction with them on a disciplinary basis is expulsion. >> That's been more recent honestly. That that's we haven't seen that a whole lot until recently. But yes, I agree. >> This is why we're having this conversation. >> Yes. So So you do you have >> and part of the reason that we have those second
035kids in my opinion is the availability >> access and it's being brought into the school. So, I'm really hardcore on this stuff. Um, a fairly severe punishment. >> So, our discretion >> that are bringing it into the school, >> our discretion is allowing them to go on a quote probationary period where they get to come back, but when they come back, the Mark's the one that suggested it to me and and I thought, well, that's great. You basically come back in probation on permanent inschool suspension until your probationary period ends. You're going to come back to school and you're going to go to class, but you're not going to participate in an extracurricular activity. You're not going to get to spend time at lunch with your friends. You're going to be in a room eating
036your lunch. You're going to come in the morning, you're going to report straight to that. You you're going to lose the fun part of school as a measure to say there are consequences. Even when you come back, we're not going to just say, "Oh, you're free to go and and be a student again." the the more the more they understand. I I I always el I always give it to I know what my grandson loves and when he's in trouble with me, that's what he loses every time. >> I I agree and I and I agree that there does need to be a punitive aspect to this because you we have they there have has to be consequences. You cannot deal with something like this without it. But how many consequences do they have to
037have before it's enough? You know, are we going to are we going to suspend them and expel them and then when they come back they're under, you know, where they they can't do what other kids are doing? I mean, I think that needs to be >> Well, he's talking about he's talking about that in instead of expelling. He's not talking about he's talking about saying when they come back how long >> he's talking about as a like a probation suspension I think initially you suspend and then you you expel okay and then you say during the expulsion you have >> the x number of days to get this stuff done and if you do you come back and that wouldn't be an extended period of time but they would be you drug screening would be
038the first one you're going to have to be drug screened randomly okay I I think if If you caught with a vape pen, then we need to know if you're using or not. And you know, unfortunately, again, there's other ways to use now. You can buy edibles and you can buy drinkables. I don't think they call them drinkables, but that's what they [laughter] are. And I'm beginning to believe that the person, the student that was unconscious for 40 hours, uh, that people may not be aware of got an edible or a drinkable is my opinion. And I've been told they suspect it was a drinkable. Uh this stuff can be really dangerous. And that's another element of this that we've talked about many times, but because they're in expulsions, the public doesn't hear. What we're
039terrified of is fentanyl. >> Oh, wow. >> And that's going to pop up on one of these things one of these days, and we're going to have a dead student, not a expelled student. So, you have to be you have to send a message. You know, this will not be tolerated. And when you come back, it's not going to be all sunshine and wonder. You're going to have to go through a period where you accept responsibility and you have to follow certain strict guidelines. And then once you're done with that, then you're free to go about your life. >> I really like the idea of the class because I agree 100% with you about the u education part of the thing. I think we just have to look at the logistics of how we're going
040to get that done. whether and whether we do it through a county or through a schoolbased system. I think that would be a >> definite plus for what you're talking about as far as the probationary period to get you back in school. We used to do that with tobacco classes. We still do that. >> Uh occasionally we will have some tobacco classes. Yes. Yeah, we still do that. Um overall I don't >> I think the vape pins are a more serious issue than tobacco products honestly. >> Definitely. And we had a model that we used for that, did we not? Where I know where they would uh the nurses came around and and did the classes. >> We Yeah. But what was what ended up how how that sort of got to found its end,
041I would call it an end because the kids found out that if they didn't go to the tobacco or vape class, they would just be suspended. and that that was that was acceptable to them over going to the class. >> Well, that's that's their choice again. And that's the thing you have to understand is that the parents understand they're going to be suspended and you have that conference with building >> and there again, if they don't show up, what are you supposed to do? >> Well, exactly. I mean, I know. I know. But, you know, then then you've got a nurse who's being paid to to maybe give a class to one or two students as opposed to the five that are supposed to be there. And so, anyway, uh I do want to talk
042about, you know, the what I always um especially here at the tech center, I would always say that um teachers make and break programs. Um, so when we're looking at a facilitator for this for a something like this, if we did do it on a weekend or whatever, we would have to put that out to hire. Obviously, whoever would be the most qualified for that position would probably get it, but are they the best person for that position? Are they the one that's going to make a real difference with those students? are they, you know, and I feel like right now we have such a good um team at the school where you've got, you know, certain people who are going to be fabulous at this. They're going to be they they have a lot
043of background in it with social work or with uh their work with communities in schools or their counseling background. So, we have people at the schools that I feel like are very very qualified and would do a a really good job with it as opposed to somebody who's just, you know, trying to make a little extra on Saturday mornings. >> And and and I and I agree with that, but part of the theory here is is interfering with their life so they remember. >> Well, and it would it would interfere. I mean, I'm not going to do it during lunch. We're not going to do it during school because you're there anyway. You have to be there anyway. We want to do it when it interferes with your >> extra time because if I know
044anything about teenagers is is they love their extra time. And when you're starting to throw a wrench into it, it's going to it's going to be that nagging thing. Everybody's out at the movies tonight and I'm here at this class. I think maybe I won't do this next time. And that's the that type of consequence has historically worked with people that are amanable to consequences. Some are never amanable to consequences. It doesn't matter. We got jails full of people like that. >> And we'll have students like that. But what we've seen, my guess is the vast majority of these kids are going to be amanable to those kind of consequences because for one thing, the parents for the most part are looking at him like, "Yeah, we're we're going to fix this." You know, I
045there was a father not long ago that said it's not going to be an issue ever again. And I believed him. You know, kids getting drug screened on a regular basis and we're monitoring this. And you're like, "Yeah, there you go. That's what we need." >> Just uh it is A lot of students had that. >> As far as the logistics, if we want to go down this probationary model to get them back in school, >> we could probably do these classes. Uh again, this up just throwing this out. Um your first day back would actually be going to this class, which would be you could make it a full day class and they come back and they'd have to complete that. Uh and you could do it every four and a half weeks or
046five, nine weeks, however you wanted to do it. But then instead of having it, you could do it maybe we could provide a space here at the Votech or somewhere where we could get them the kids that are involved in it if you wanted to do that and then that would make them eligible for the second step of pro probation maybe do some steps in it. Uh again just trying to solve the logistics part of it the uh sending it to every school. Um, I think if you had one person was that was doing it countywide, it would probably be more effective than sending someone to every school. >> I was reserve a chance to talk to us. >> I I I [laughter] work I work with our social workers. I work with our counselors
047very often. I I have full confidence in them at every school. Um, you know, I really feel like that that they would make the greatest impact and the and what I and I have to do every Friday at 1:00. Um, except for today because next week's Thanksgiving and I I'm worried the kids will forget, but um I'm over at the tech, not the tech center, the warehouse doing um an orientation for the students. And so, you know, it's weekly. I have to start a new group of kids weekly. It is a pretty constant thing. And so you >> you're talking about for expelled kids for how to use virtual. Is that what you're talking about? >> And so, you know, while I'm putting them on the same day, they did they don't have the same
048day back to school. If we do an exp I mean a suspension, they're going to be coming back on all different days of the week. And it's it's all over the you're kind of all over the place with that. Um because if they, you know, somebody gets in trouble on Monday and they've got 10 days and then somebody's in trouble on Wednesday and they've got 10 days, then you're they're two days apart coming back to school. >> I'm not talking I'm not talking about suspensions. I'm talking about expulsions. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, we're going to have to define everything. >> You got to start being rudder is all >> Yeah. Be rooter. Rder. Well, I remember getting chastised by Mr. Bailey, not this one for trying to bust in one time in the talk.
049So, >> uh, first of all, I got to start with the questions. It seems to me like in all these things we've been hearing that most of the ones we're getting are the younger level, middle school through maybe ninth grade. Are they >> get those for you pretty quickly? But, um, you know, we do have some seniors. We do have some juniors. um 10th grade I I would I would agree with you that like seventh through 7 through 10 is probably where we we have the bulk of the students. >> Yeah. And to me that I kind of I'm a different than the rest of you. I think I'm more like what you're saying. I think a lot more I think we do more by educating and I don't like the idea of bringing them
050all in here. Sorry about that. And doing a bunch at once. If you got one good person at the school, the facilitator that good with working kids and knows the things you were talking about and they can sit down with one or two kids, it's going to be more. What I'm envisioning is more than just an education. Here's some facts. We're going to be talking person to person and saying, you know, I care about you. We want you to do better. Let's let's talk about this. I think a individual one-on-one or one-on- two type of thing is going to be much more effective than bringing a bunch of kids in here and having some type of class. >> You can do that. You can do that. >> We are definitely on the same page. I
051mean, in my mind, you can do that. >> Well, but I've heard other comments here that we're not maybe not going to do that. Yeah, I think that's what we should do if we do this model. >> Instruction in the school, not >> I'm I'm I'm not big on making it convenient for them. I I think it doesn't need to be that's where we disagree. >> Well, it wouldn't be it wouldn't be at a conven I mean I I think that anytime that they would be with the facilitator working on uh these modules it would have to be part of it would at least be lunch. I mean so they would not be doing you know their regular thing every day. they would have to to do something a little bit different in order to
052fit this into their schedule that doesn't interfere too much with what they've got going on in the regular school day. So, you know, I I don't think that um that we ought to take a math class and spend that time during math, but I definitely think lunch is something that we can look at, especially with our high school students. I think they in middle school they I mean they enjoy lunch >> and you know sometimes we can do this make it uncomfortable make it punishment all that type of thing and what you end up with a bunch of kids who are sitting there sucker I'll fool you. I'm not going to pay attention to you. We're we're adversaries. I think that should be a problem where we're not adversaries but we're working together to help
053each other. I think you'd be a lot more effective that way than just trying to make it rough. >> Well, right now we're talking about I'm gonna be rude this time. >> Okay, go. >> One of the things we we've talked about what we're going to do when I had assistant principal come to me two weeks ago and said, I've had three students come and said they're hooked. They don't want to get in trouble. What can we do for them? We've all talked and we know that these kids are hooked and and alternative certification or probation and what is all great, but we've got to do we've got to help these kids. They're hooked on this stuff. And we're not addressing that issue. If you've got the people that you have confidence in, then we
054have to put together a program and regardless that whether they get caught or not, if they want to have access, it's just like a 12step program or going into drug rehab or whatever it is. I had a conversation with the guy that's running recovery point the other day. He's full of drug addicts and reform drug addicts and all these other things and they're still allowing them. They monitor everything. They always people smoking very hot or salt or sodas, but they monitor everything that they do. I know we can't do that, but we've got kids that are are effective. Everything [clears throat] that you hear, your brain is still developing. You don't know what's in THC vapes, etc., etc. So, if we're gonna, this is going to be an ongoing battle as well as it's going
055to have to be an ongoing figure it out as we go. But we've got to provide these kids, these students with something. >> Well, I I guess my comment would be if if a kid came to me like that and I was an administrator, we would immediately call the parents and we would be making some plans. Why? We don't need the county to have a policy to do that. I get that. >> He got it from his mom's bedside. >> I get that. And there's that's part of the problem. >> Yeah. But [snorts] what we're talking about, at least from my perspective, is keeping kids in the buildings getting educated. >> We've got to start something. >> That's that's got to be the first step because right now all we're doing is saying, "Go talk
056to Mandy and she'll give you a computer and you can set it home and we hope you show up for your team's class." >> As opposed to You're right. as opposed to them physically coming in the building and we know they're there >> and and we for lack of a better word we have our thumb on them and we're like okay you know this isn't going to be back to the same routine you're going to have to meet some some strict guidelines in order for you to get out of this and if you make it noxious enough they're going to try to get out of it quickly you know >> Mandy does the program that you're the one you've looked at does it uh state the I think you said five parts. Does it state
057it should be done uh over a period of time or not? >> Um you could do it either way. I I would think that >> it was the name of it again. I think it would be better to do it over a period of time because you lose kids attention after so long. >> What was the name of? It's the Stanford um educ let's see Stanford Education cannabis awareness prevention toolkit. >> Thank you. >> So how surely this has been used by a lot of people. Uh how effective has it been? I it hasn't I don't have any data on that but I can look and see if there is some >> and also see how when it is effective how has it been implemented. >> Okay. >> I I still think that >> is
058it something you buy? >> No. >> Okay. >> It's free. It's free. The the facilitator has to go through some training um to be able to facilitate the program, >> but uh other than that it's free. I mean and the that the training is free. everything's >> um I think if I'm here correctly and correct me if I'm wrong, we start need we need to develop a policy that implements this in some fashion that allows us to look at it, work through the policy and it'll it'll certainly be a moving target because there'll be things we do that don't work that we get rid of and we'll bring in new things. That's the whole point of this trying to find what works and what doesn't. Uh Paul, I hope you're right and it all ends
059up your way. It's just a few classes and everything's good. >> Being around teenagers and younger kids a lot. >> That's not the world I observe. But uh uh you know, you can I know with 10 year olds, you can tell them something 45 times and you're still telling them after 45 times. >> Don't do that. I'm thinking partly just my general philosophy, but also partly because my teaching thing. I almost never in all the years I taught 47 years sent a kid to the office. >> I didn't really have a lot of discipline problems because they knew what the rules were and they knew I cared about them and you was going to stay busy and on time. So I think it's just a matter of is it going to be a positive effect
060approach? We're thinking positive. We're going to help you. or is it gonna be negative? I'm gonna smack you, boy. You better straighten up. I think it's a big difference. >> I don't think I don't think telling a kid you don't get to have lunch with your friends is smacking you. >> Taking away something they like. >> But Mr. Depends on how far we go with that. >> I was a BD teacher at Morgantown. I had 33 BD kids. I had to take them to the office. I had to take them someplace every other day. You know, it's it's a different >> You had the worst of the worst. >> I had I had five at Clay Mattel and And >> No AP kids. No, no AP kids. They, you know, I would also they pass,
061but the their success, I hate to say, some of them it's very tough, but that's >> I would also suggest something I hear a lot from teachers, and that is is the kids we've got going through school right now are not the kids we had 10 or 15 years ago. >> They are a different breed. Part of it is screens. They're they're >> their ability to focus for periods of time is diminished. part of it co and the loss the the loss that they had. Uh it's and I of course I'm not teaching them so I don't know but I keep hearing that you know these kids are not the same kids we had 15 years ago they are different. >> Well I've appreciated this conversation because I think that we're focused even though we've
062got different outlooks on helping kids that really need help. >> Yeah. And I I truly believe that >> that's our >> I've seen personally through my own family and you all I guarantee there's not a person in here hasn't been touched by someone uh with some kind of drug addiction. So I think it's important and I agree 1,000 I'm not going to say a thousand% I'm a math person 100% that this is a necessary thing that we need to try to institute. Well, well, my proposal would be just to, and this is just me, and I know like you said, everybody's got their own opinion, but I would I I nine or 10 day suspension for having it. When they come back, they have to go through the through that program with a facilitator. Uh,
063and I, you know, the one or two one-on-one or one two I think is perfect. Uh, this instruction can happen during lunch resource elective periods. So it doesn't remove students from core academics and if they repeat the ver behavior they're expelled. >> So if if a kid brought 10 grams of marijuana leaf into school would you take the same approach? >> Um so what I would have to know what their intent was. I mean and if we ask him what's your intent and he says I'm going to sell this then no they need to be >> expanded. But the but the problem is you can share a pen. >> See >> yeah you you can >> you can share the pen which >> but did they >> but we off we often discover that they're
064in a room with others. I mean again because you don't get to sit through the expulsions. You don't know all the details. >> But they're sharing. >> So it is the same thing as >> No, >> here's a here's a little bit of my my leaf. >> Yeah. I mean, if they're distributing, they need to be expelled regardless of what it is. >> I just I I can't get past the fact that that they're bringing an illegal substance into the building. I know it's legal in a lot of states. >> They they were bringing it in when I was in high school. >> Well, people were smoking pot in the parking lot >> and they got expelled. >> No, they didn't. >> Well, they didn't. >> They didn't get caught [laughter] and they got they
065>> Okay, and I get that. But my point is is these kids are getting caught. >> Yeah. >> And they're they are caught with a substance that >> I mean it's unlawful. >> It's always been in the schools. It's like lice. >> Well, >> people want to say send a letter when there's lice and I'm like it's there every day. >> I I totally understand that. But we can't turn a blind eye simply because >> No. And I don't want to do that. There has to be again where we disagree I think is the extent of what the requirement is to stay in school as opposed to because I I think that if it's a vape and it's a THC vape that first class should be in that 10 days of suspension. We shouldn't wait
066until >> and if they refuse to take it then we know well they're not going to be interested in this proposal that we have for them. uh if you if you hit them right out of the gate, then we've got that first class before they even see the board on an expulsion hearing and we'll we'll get a sense of whether they're actually interested in in some kind of remediation. >> Why don't you let Manny put together a proposal for consideration? >> Well, yeah, we need to we need to work on something that but a policy. >> No, it's okay. Greg's been we've been talking for quite some time about the alternative [snorts] >> and this is something close to my heart because I'm working with these kids every day >> and you know some of
067them come in so defeated you know and I just I I want to make sure that that I'm doing everything I can to help them and I obviously the education piece is a huge >> Absolutely. We all want we all want kids in school. We tell them that every expulsion hearing. We that's our least favorite thing to do is to expel a kid. I think I can say that for >> every you know regardless of what we do uh in terms of the length of time they're out of school or whatever it we really do need to implement some sort of education piece for those students. >> But I I think we've always talked about an education piece. Uh and we're glad that you found this and presented it. But uh I think at least
068my impression from the it's not a vote, but just [clears throat] my sense is there needs to be a uh some negative consequences as well. It's not just you get 10 days and you get to come back and everything's fine. There have to be some consequences for behavior. >> Well, and you know, a suspension is a consequence. That that is a consequ and it's hard on a lot on on students, especially your AP and dual credit and those kids. you know that that is a although that's a very small percentage of who we're seeing. I mean I know we've seen a few of those lately but in the scheme of things that's a very minor percent it the commonality is that generally kids we expel have bad attendance and bad grades. I mean, that's overall,
069which I think is one of the issues that they're not going to I think a lot of those kids that already have bad attendance are not going to want to participate in anything we're talking about because they don't care about being in school. >> And that's going to be that that has to be an element of the agreement. You have to come to school. >> Period. >> Yes. >> You can't miss school. If you miss school, then you can do it online. >> Well, that's my other soap box. So, >> yeah. Could Could that be part of the education >> when it's needed about why I've been in school? The >> five things. Uh-huh. >> Could there be some Well, I guess one-on-one there could be some talk about attendance and grades and all those
070types of things going on. >> That's why I like the one-on-one as well is you have some time to talk to kids without having to manage behavior without, you know, because these these are kids who are going to some of them are going to push limits and so you're not having to manage behavior if you're one-on-one. Typically, they do well one-on-one. Um, and yeah, you can we could definitely put an attendance component in there. >> I got a question I'd like to get y'all's opinion on. It seems to me like if we're going to policy similar to what we're talking about here, that it would be a good opportunity to go to what Mr. Toman has suggested before memorandum of understanding and not having all the expulsion hearings. The >> only the board only the
071board can expel. That's the law. only the board can expel. >> But >> that's a technicality. Could >> No, the board >> could he not get a memorandum understanding that here's what's going to happen and even if it includes days out of school, but we can't do that. >> We can, but we just have a difference of opinion about the benefit of having the hearings. I have watched many, many kids sitting there and [clears throat] they're not happy about the world they're in. The parents aren't happy. It's formal. It's It's kind of like going to court. >> Yeah. Going to court. >> It has a It has an impact on Not all of them, but a great deal of them. How many kids have we seen cry? >> And I'm not trying to make them
072cry. I'm simply saying it's a very emotional moment. It's very stressful and it it shows the significance of the circumstance. They're sitting in front of five people on a day. >> It's again, it's like going to court. It gets your attention. It's part of the process. We can cut that part out, but I think it diminishes what happens. >> Let me ask you this question I haven't been clear on too. >> Many times you said that when they come back, are you talking about in this process as you envision it, are we going to they're going to have their suspension for 10 days, right? >> Are we going to then expel them for a number of days and then they come back or are they going to expel them in name only and then they
073come back? We need to we need our administration to work that out. >> That's something that we need guidance for. I have my own opinion, but that's just my opinion. I need we need some input. Uh again, it's a serious it's a serious offense. Uh 10 days is a long time. I'm not sure that it's enough. But also, there also needs to be time to be sure they're serious and that they're actually engaging in some of this the requirements. Uh if you let them come back after 10 days, you haven't had a chance to do a random drug screen, for example. Or you say before you can come back, you have to have a random drug screen. All right, that's one of the criteria you've met. So, you come back sooner. But it it part
074of this and we've said this to many students. Part of this is sending a message to other students. This is what happens to you if you do this behavior. And for a lot of students, it's like I don't want to do I don't want to be thrown out of school. You know, it's going to be worse at home if I get thrown out of school. Um >> but the truth is we've been throwing them out of school, throwing them out of school, and it hasn't helped you. >> Well, it has. We've got How many students we have in Mercer County? 8,000 and we've done 70 last year and 50 this year. That's a very small percentage of our student body. And as far as the other counties go, my guess is if you really look
075behind things, they're either not catching them. I know Jefferson County was really interested in the brata system because they knew of no such thing. They're not doing any of that. Uh they're not catching them or they're simply just deciding we're just going to suspend them for three days and let them come back. I I would guess if you look that's really what it is because I refuse to believe that only Mercer County in the state of West Virginia has an issue with THC vapes. I don't believe that. >> That's very fair, Mr. Pidge. A lot of them are not expelling. And I know even Nicholas County with the state to take over with Scott Cochran, he brought in a hearing examiner. So the board won't hear those. But then again, it's a state board now.
076But there's other options to do that. So but like you guys doing the uh the meetings. The only the only negative part from my view along with the principles is the time of that meeting and having that for that that >> how much does it cost us to have one of those meetings with Jared and our salaries and >> oh I I just signed a u an invoice today so I just handed that over but I could tell you we could get that together what that's cost so far and like Nicholas County then for could to hire somebody like that to do those hearings but you guys it is important you doing that but I tell you it is also important when they're meeting with me or very rarely Mrs. Mitchell sometimes they don't want
077to meet with myself either to come over and have that meeting going over all that information. So that's been true that's been that's a step >> what you guys say to them sometimes five times. I've already said it, Miss Mitchell said it, the principal said it and Amber, Dr. Bowling has to hear that sometimes, but uh we we go through those things. But again uh that u you know and then I've seen it the other way. We did have the the approval of u the memorandum but ultimately like Mr. Prud says you guys have to approve. So if you did a hearing examiner M County has a um a director that hears every one of them and if they agree he takes it to the board whatever but if they don't then they have a
078hearing and do it that way. That's what Mon County has more of them and they get agreement that way. I know that gentleman very well. But uh there's different ways. Uh u >> we are we are the most efficient. I'm telling you guys talk about packets. I have never seen anything as thorough as what we have here in Mercer County with packets along with your all's board meetings are very thorough compared to everywhere else out there. But uh I just want to tell you that that whatever you wish to do, we'll do it. So, >> well, one of the things that having the hearings also does is it keeps the board informed about things. You have a hearing examiner do it >> or you just sign a paper, then all we know is >> well,
079this person had a this person had a a vape at school and that's all we know. Well, anything else. We don't know about the kid. We don't know about their absenteeism. We don't know about their grades. We don't know about their the discipline. We're not informed. And yeah, we could be provided all that information, but again, it's different than looking at a child and saying, you know, you're in trouble here, you're in trouble and that you understand the consequences of your behavior as opposed to police arresting you and you never go in front of a courtroom and you just you just sign your ticket, send in your money, and you're done. I know people that have had I know one gentleman, he always sticks in my mind, he had like 120 speeding tickets. He never
080learned ever. >> Guess where he lives right now? >> Bet you can guess >> in jail. >> He's in jail and not for speeding. Uh but he just he never learned. Never learned because all he did was send the money in and that was that. Um was never whacked hard enough. So I promised three hours. >> I got some questions. >> We're at 11:52. Go. You got eight minutes. >> Well, [laughter] I want a conversation. And I was contacted by Skip Crane who is the president of the Blue Well group and [laughter] >> well said >> they're trying to make Bluefield a better place. >> Blue well blue well >> and they're interested in >> if it's something we're going to act on. If it's like transfer of property or something you probably shouldn't talk
081about it >> because it's not on the agenda. >> I'll have to ask you a question later. >> Okay, that's fine. Verify also have a person I sent the list of things. How does this fellow want something that's on that list? So he needs to find out how he goes about. >> Yeah. >> Contact central office. >> Yeah. Contact us. >> No mine. It it would be best as a board member you have him contact us >> on Wednesday. >> Sure. >> Something he had to go online to find out and I report staff right now. So it'll be after Thanksgiving before. >> Okay. >> All right. Um >> you have our sympathies too by the way. >> We know we understand >> is um we know you you've informed us that because of loss
082of students that the funding formula in its current position and even if the legislature does something it won't I can't imagine it'll go into effect next >> you have these >> year or so are we since you've got so much free time are we looking at programs or or things that we're doing that we may not be able to do moving forward because we don't have the funding we used to have >> we have not We just received two days ago, three days ago. >> They have a copy of that. >> You have a professional over in service. >> Um, we're significantly over in service. >> No kidding. >> Um, >> yeah, that's a big number. >> That's We haven't begun even looking at the budget for next year. We'll start that in January. >>
083Professional doesn't look so horrible. >> No, professional does not >> I was really kind of surprised by that. Yeah. Service >> service is awful. >> It It really surprised me how >> But we've also worked on that. I mean, we cut the 12 bus. But >> you've always been good about keeping the numbers >> and we appreciate that. It keeps us from having budget disasters. >> Um, >> but this one kind of is a surprise. I mean it just like >> the head count. >> Well, what I don't understand is why it's so big in prof in in service but not in professional. >> 261. We also have more 261 employees in service. >> So they're counting that as Gotcha. >> I got you. I remember them talking about that at the session this weekend
084or this past weekend. >> So you keep tagging a third, a third, a third, a third, a third. Gotcha. Okay. And the last thing is we keep constantly hearing about we heard in February that we need to be selfromoting everything that's going on. She does a job. >> She does a fantastic job of using resources that everybody know especially social media but >> [laughter] >> Every time I go back, man, >> I try to bring a little culture. [laughter] >> That's hard to do. >> A lot of emails or see things on social media that talk about losing students and some of them are PR or firms, some of them are trying to sell their services. And every once in a while, I'll send something I'll send it to Greg so we'll have some white
085look at these things. You know, there's got to be ways. I mean, we're down a thousand some students, the whole school. There's got to be some way that we can enhance entice them to come back. >> Bernie and I talked about this with our improvements, grand improvements with our K3 program, and they're not getting that kind of stuff. home. >> I talked to a lady in Wisconsin. She came into a coffee shop and she had two little kids and she had she homeschooled and I said, "Why are you doing public?" Well, I wasn't. She said in Illinois and she said the school was terrible. She said, "My husband got transferred." We're talking out in the boonies, but she's sitting on a coffee shop and her little boy can tell me all I need to know
086about being a pirate. That's where he wants to be right now. But we're not we need to be doing outside the box. And I don't know where you find the box to go outside. only the the homeschool thing. Mercer County has always had going back to when I started on the board in 98 has always had a substantial homeschool group. Mr. Bailey, his children, his grandchildren were largely homeschooled. >> It's it is a choice that people make here for a lot of reasons. I think some of it has to do with with uh uh faith and that's absolutely fine. I got no issue with that. So when people talk about homeschool here, I don't get too wrinkled about it because the numbers that I recall back in 98 were in the hundreds and hundreds. I
087don't think there's ever been a year when we didn't have five or six hundred kids homeschooled going way back and and it has increased some recently particularly particularly when you dangle money and and and unfortunately what part of the increase is is people that are looking at the money as opposed to what's best for their children. I think the the the large portion of people that homeschool do it appropriately as best they can do it and and we've always had that issue. So I that's not the one that concerns me the most. It's the kids that are opting for other options like what is that online thing where you get you get eight hours and you graduate high school >> pin that one that should be outlawed. >> That's one I found out I was
088in her office last year. That should be outlawed. >> Four boys were standing there and they were all welding students and I said, "Well, what school do you go to?" We're home. And they said, "It was a joke. You know, you don't have to do anything. We want to be well." >> They started out. >> Yeah. But still we >> so so there's there's there's [laughter] >> the problem is is there's a story a lot of promotion and if we learned anything during co and I'm afraid people are forgetting those lessons already is that for the vast majority of children online learning is not effective and that's the part that we're missing. So when you have families that are opting for online and I know we offer it and and I they have the reasons
089and again that's their choice for a lot of people it's just not as effective and for kids in particular I mean as an adult if you want to because I'm having to do the I'm still doing my classes to get back to I mean the online stuff just kills me. I mean I'd much rather listen to a person much rather interact than read and then answer a test. It's just not the most effective way to learn, but it's what we have now. So, the only thing we can do is offer all the things we offer, all the opportunities that we have, all the things that you can do and be in Mercer County schools. The problem is is the legislature in its lack of wisdom says, "Well, if you make these choices to not be
090in public school, you still get the benefit of all these things." And that's the problem is by saying you still get the benefit of everything else they offer but you don't have to go to their schools that pinches us because then it's like well yeah I'll send them to this school but I want my kid to play baseball and I want my kid to be in the band and I want my kid to go to MCT >> and we have to let them do that now but which is new >> also the legislature but >> that's what we face. We have to compete by showing them how great we are. And I think that's what we do because we are I mean I you know when the state's calling us and asking us how are
091you doing this that tells you something and they do that a lot. We don't talk about that near enough. We also have outstanding faculty staff and central office. Uh as good as anybody around and I'll stand by that. I brag a lot at these schoolboard association meetings guys. You have no idea. and it irritates the crap out of the other board members. >> Thank you. >> So, um >> I have something to say. >> Yes. >> I move we >> Oh, there he's waiting for >> any objection. We We're over a minute. I'm sorry. Too >> bad. Good job. Thank