001Testing test. These mics are real sensitive. I don't even know that you need a mic. >> Okay. Turn off your mics. >> Okay, Mrs. Appreciate you showing up. >> Absolutely. and if you could help us. >> You guys on on >> on. You ready? >> Okay. We're going to go ahead and call our special meeting of the Wayne County Board of Education to order. It is 501. And if you'll stand, we'll say the pledge. >> Randy, will you care to lead us this evening? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Good evening. >> All right. Let the record show that all board members are present in person
002this evening [Music] and we will begin with our legislative forum. the uh the board plans to discuss with our local representatives um matters that are impacting our school system here in Wayne County. And this evening we have uh Mr. Corby Dylan and Mr. Mark Maynard with us. Yes, sir. >> Also, we have Senator Hart trying to join, but he's not sure where to call in. Okay. I did call in my phone. >> All right. We can make that happen. the unit. I do >> I can give you a number for him to call. Can you text it to him? >> Sure. Jeez, I don't want myself on Okay, that should get us going. [Music] While we wait here, we want to board like to thank both Mr. Maynard and Mr. Dylan and Mr. Hart when
003we get him um for joining us this evening. Um it's always >> Yeah, we app we appreciate you being here, Senator Fuller. um had scheduled to come but I think he's got caught out of town and and texted me this afternoon said he couldn't make it and uh Senator Wolf was planning to be here so hopefully he makes it here a little bit >> right >> deal pleasure >> not yet well he is probably you know calling for Mingo County and sometimes the comes to work. Sometimes it doesn't, >> right? >> Yeah. >> We'll go ahead and let um Alexander get us started here with our agenda. >> Yeah. So, um in the email that we sent inviting you, um we listed some things that would be topics of discussion tonight. So, there's there's a
004u couple key items um that we'll be focused on and and talk about several uh several things underneath each key item. number one is is just funding stability um budgets. And you know, I know you guys follow the statewide news and I know you get information up at the legislature about um the loss of enrollment that's occurring across the state that was projected because birth rates are down. And so we're projected to lose enrollment along probably with about 51 other counties in the state uh for the next decade. And um so that enrollment loss is uh causing budget issues. So there were some things that we thought would be helpful from the state level forward the budget issues. So on your agenda that you have in front of you, um item 2A, the first thing
005that we would uh we would speak about is what's called an essential personnel bridge grant. Now what this what this is for is to fund special ed positions that are really not covered under the formula. So the way the funding formula is and I know we talked quite a bit about it last year but the way the funding formula works um we are allocated a certain number of service personnel uh per number of students. So that number I think is around 18 or so. So for every 18 students we receive one service personnel position. what we get into. At the same time that we've seen declining enrollment overall, we we've seen an increase in the special education population. So, the percentage of kids that need special needs services is higher than it's ever been. Here
006comes that call win. Senator Hart or Delegate Hart, >> how are you >> doing? Good. Doing good. Um I just answered the phone so I've got you on speaker and uh Senator Maynard and Corby Dylan are with us and then our five board of education members and we were just starting the discuss discussion about trying to stabilize funding for school districts. And the first item that we were talking about was a um what we referred to as an essential personnel bridge grant which has to do with special education population. And I was just saying that our percentage of special needs students has increased. Uh we're dealing with the highest percentage of special needs students that we've dealt with in the last decade at the current time. And uh with that higher percentage, there comes very
007specific needs, sometimes more severe needs. And uh when that occurs, we have to hire uh sometimes one- on-one aids with these students. and uh uh that just doesn't fit within the formula. So that drives up our numbers uh that that we are over formula uh for the district. And so, uh, we have for several years we have thought it would be a good idea if the state held some special ed funding and at at the state department and that counties could apply for that when there was uh when there was a a significant need, a high need with a student that required uh staffing outside of the existing ratios uh for that are currently established. lish for special ed personnel. So that was that was one idea we had for funding stability. Um the second
008item uh 2B is and this is just a thought for trying to stabilize uh the the decreasing funds that the public schools are seeing what's called an enrollment uh stabilizer formula change. So um our funding from the state is based upon our October 1st enrollment each year. So each October 1st we have to start planning uh the budget for the next school year and we have to plan for uh the reduction of funds. I gave you a a graph. You have one of the pieces of paper in front of you is a graph. The blue line is a uh the blue line is a uh the enrollment for the district. And so when we're talking about decreasing enrollment for the next decade, you you can see where things have been for the past several years.
009I can tell you that back in 2016, the total enrollment over the district was over 7,000. And again, it was projected that it was going to drop. and uh it it has followed that pattern. So the um I believe it's the red line >> uh the red line that you see there is the uh excess personnel that the county has to pay for out of local budget. So the more positions that we have over the formula, the higher that number goes. Now, if you'll notice in 25 and 26, uh, that number dropped to 8.5 million and then and, uh, this year it was projected to be about 7.5 million. That's because of job cuts. That's because of positions being eliminated. Um, that uh that number is able to be reduced. what we get into what
010you see there for that uh that projection of it shooting back up to 9.2 million. We've lost about 215 students this year alone and it's about $1.4 million uh less money that we'll have coming in from the state for next year's budget. So, we had cut during the last personnel season. We had cut uh approximately 27 positions. We're right back to where we started because of the enrollment loss. We have to cut the we have to cut 30 positions just to get back to where we set today budget-wise uh because we're going to have less money coming in with the new year. And so when you see that that number goes up from 21 to 24, it wasn't because we were adding positions. It was because we were losing students and we were receiving less
011funding from the state to pay those positions. So the cost for the district went up during that period of time. If you go back and look at at the district's positions between 27 uh 2017 and and 2026, we are down quite a few positions, but the amount that the district has to pay has went up has went up significantly because of that loss in enrollment. So item B, that enrollment stabilizer formula change, what it would propose is instead of taking these big hits like the, you know, the 220 and the 1.4 million being lost for next year, that there'll be a three-year rolling average of district enrollment. Uh, so that you don't take a significant hit in one specific year. or it mentions here having a 98% prior year minimum as a funding floor. So
012that there's a loss that's calculated for every single year, but but that it's capped at that you you're not going to lose more than 2% from what you uh lost the previous year. So th those are some ideas to help with the budget picture. Um any questions about either of those items? Any comments, questions, anything you want to know? >> Not a few, but >> okay, >> you can go >> real quick. Real quick. This is a define service personnel. I know it sounds like a simple question, but I want to know who that encompasses. So that's your cooks, that's your custodians, that's your bus drivers, that's your maintenance workers, those positions, >> aids, ecats, >> aids and ecats, >> aids, secretary, >> secretary. >> And so that's how the special education, you know, you
013need extra aids, I guess. Is that correct? >> But you don't need increased um >> nurses, >> you don't need increased teachers. um this help that's needed is more one-on-one. Sometimes it is teachers. >> Okay. >> So, you know, any personnel funding on any of the sides would help. >> So, currently the school aid formula doesn't give you any extra funding depending on the quantity of special education students you have in the county, right? >> No. You know, we have a we have a special education budget where we receive funds to operate the special ed program, but a large majority of the positions that are classified as special ed positions are paid for uh by the county directly. They count in in our numbers that were allowed based upon our October 1st enrollment. >> And
014that money coming from the state isn't related to the number of special education students you have. It is related to that number, but again, it's not it's not personnel money. Some of that a little bit of that money is used for personnel, but overall it it's used for uh services for the kids. >> One last question. Uh you mentioned local budget 9 or right now 7 8.5 I guess out of your local budget. What's the total local budget? Uh the total local budget is uh Jeb, what what number would you give for the total general fund for the year? What budget we looking at? >> For 26 about 79 million. >> Okay. And is that entirely does that come from the um the personal property tax or what what makes up that 79 million? So
015the 79 million that is the money that we receive from the state >> aid. >> Yeah, it's state aid and then the local taxes that are collected are subtracted from the state aid and then the state funds the rest. Um so in other words, they apply the school funding formula. Got it. >> They come up with a total dollar figure. They subtract anything that we collect locally. What's left they provide. So 79 million is your budget. >> Yeah. >> And then how much is the how much is subtracted from that from the county? What the county chips in? You you know the county amount? >> Uh roughly about 9 million give or take a million in the current levy. And then we also have about 11 million in excess levy. >> And how much for
016the regular levy? >> Right around 9 million. Oh, that's right. Yeah, because that includes probably Okay. Yeah. All right. It's all header. >> Um, Mr. Alexander, you mentioned birth rate as one of the contributing factors here for the declining uh enrollment. Uh so a question I have, you know, culture and schools, they kind of have this uh entangled relationship. One affects the other which affects the other and it kind of self-perpetuates sometimes. So the question I have is um how many of our students for example are are young women in during uh high school for example have access to classes such as home or anything like that which would maybe encourage them to want to start families and have babies. the uh I think the focus has been on uh you know pregnancy after marriage.
017Um is there any specific classes that encourage that? I don't I don't think that there is. >> We do have CTE programs for prostart and things like that that encourage entrepreneurship and you know cooking, baking, catering, that kind of thing. But as far as like your typical home that you and I had, um it's not really offered anymore and it's not really a program that's offered anymore at the higher education level so that we could offer it in the schools. >> So I guess the question I'm getting to here and obviously I'm talking about uh students when they graduate high school and they start families, you know, not having babies during high school, right? Didn't want to uh confuse you there, but um what image or what impression of motherhood are our students getting as
018they come through the school system? Are they looking at that as something for a maybe one day to put on the back burner and then come back to after they've gone, you know, through years of college and all that? Or are they looking at that as a viable way of life to to stay here in in Wayne County and raise a family with a husband? I mean, if we don't have any way that we're reinforcing that, then how can we be surprised when birth rates drop across the board? >> Yeah. I mean, >> I guess my answer to that, you know, we're teaching math, English, social studies, science. Th those aren't those aren't topics that come up. Uh those aren't topics that come up in in the schools as far as encouraging family planning or
019anything like that. We leave that to the homes. No, nothing. Okay. So, nothing in social studies about families or the benefits of families. Um that's that's interesting. Okay. All right. I just thought I'd ask about that. >> Senator Hart, anything any questions? >> Well, yeah. I I assume that the literature and the question of long-term fulfillment and perpetuating um well just fulfillment and where that comes from. I think that we may have a public school system that focuses a whole lot on college and career readiness along with the other main topics of the old common core. And we may be very light in traditional western education and what we're supposed to get from that. And I deeply appreciate the CT classes at ProStar, but I think there was a time that we focused on family
020and community. And I have great concerns that we're focused on money and an education racket and not on our communities. So I I guess I don't have a question unless that leads you to something perhaps I've gone astray on there. >> No, no. Um the item 2C uh so another another budget help um deals with transportation. So, um, item C is rural transportation support, and this this would be addressed for large geographic counties, which Wayne County would classify as a large geographic county. Um, you know, we're talking about the numbers of service personnel that the district is allowed to have. We we run, you know, just short of 90 bus runs uh to cover the distance uh that's necessary to cover in the u in the district for for kids to get to school. Well,
021with that many bus runs and and we really can't it it's very difficult to trim those down. We have trimmed down several over the past few years, but it's really difficult to get past that number. And uh there there are counties that are twice our size that have less bus runs than we do. And uh so they have a lot more service personnel that are funded through the state to operate those runs. And so the positions that they don't have to fund for bus runs then they can use for these special needs, that type of thing. So, one of the things that we thought would be interesting to think about is trying to do something for rural transportation support for large geographic counties. So, the idea of having a multiplier uh that would increase the
022transportation reimbursement by 10 to 20% for districts that are classified as large geographic counties to help cover some of that cost of fuel and uh and the number of buses that we are having to keep on the road uh from uh from year to year. Um just an idea. So, uh, you know, just to respond to that, this is Delegate Dylan. Um, you know, Thomas Jefferson was a big supporter of rural schools and, um, I find myself aligning much with his vision. He wanted to have one school for every hundred families. And I I think that's a that's a noble goal. And so when I go, you know, to Charleston and represent, I I try to impress upon my colleagues the importance of not just certain counties having the resources they need because, you know,
023our topography is is so diverse throughout the state, but making sure that every family has what they need within their community where they lived. so that they are not going to have to rearrange their lives just to take advantage of you know that very basic um opportunity that education affords. So to that I will say this um the headwinds that I faced last year going in after our meeting here um in in trying to advocate for additional measures and adjustments for the rural counties and for the logistics that uh and the challenges we face. They were significant headwinds. Uh, I would I would say that in the House, I'm not going to speak to the Senate, but I would say that in the House, um, there was a significantly robust level of support among the
024rank and file of the delegates, but I would also say at the same time that the leadership in the House and the leadership uh, and the chair of education specifically uh, they do not seem to to share the same concern that we Um, and we could speculate on on reasons for that, but last year the push was not so much for supporting uh our rural counties. It was more a push toward consolidating districts, >> you know, into these super districts. And um I I think there's a I think there's a huge disconnect here between you know what the people want and what the local communities need. And some of our leadership in the house and you know quite frankly at this time I don't know how to bridge that gap as I sit here. I
025know I want to continue to try for my part, you know, to do so and to work with others who are like-minded. >> It not just because I'm a board member, but because I know how it was and it is for me as far as reaching out to my representatives. If you have huge districts, unlike it is here where you probably know at least one board member by name and you can reach out to them, talk to them and stuff, that's going to take away any any kind of influence that the common person has with their their leadership or the board, you know, and I I I I take it you agree with me on that. Well, I I think if we look at the recent history of the state board of education and and
026state superintendent, and this is me speaking, so it doesn't reflect on anyone else here, but um I think it's fair to say that their emphasis has not been toward uh making sure that the the local citizens have that voice with their uh boards of education both at the local level and the state level. Um, and I think that's evidenced by the the takeover, frankly, in Mingo County and and other counties. And so that's those are the circumstances under which I'm operating currently as an employee of Mingo County Board of Education. And um, you know, it's it's unfortunate that in in both uh my professional capacity and in my legislative capacity, I'm having to deal with that sort of environment, >> right? It's just hard. It's hard to protect our local community schools, our smaller, more
027rural schools if if something doesn't give with this formula. I mean, we've we've been holding on pretty tightly for the past six years at least. Our grip is, you know, slowly light lessening. So, we're we're trying, but it's, you know, when you when you're faced with, you know, a deficit in your budget or having to look at closure of of schools, you know, that's that's a pretty tough situation, especially when you've got 18 schools to look after. So, >> I just add I would think if cons they start consolidating more county districts, it's it's going to get worse, right? >> On the small more rural counties, >> you'll be the first to go. >> Yeah. >> Well, item C was rural transportation support. Item D ties right in with it. >> Before we move on
028to D, U, there's currently a rural distance multiplier and you're wanting that to be increased, right? >> Correct. >> Right. I didn't catch that. >> There's currently a rural uh distance multiplier and he's asked if we were wanting that to be increased. So there's the um there's through the funding formula they identify districts as uh sparse sparsely populated etc. So there is a multiplier for the state aid um but we would look for an additional increase for the transportation. How um how far are some of these students being busted in? How how many hours a day or a week do they spend on a bus? >> Well, I mean, you're looking, you know, there's there's some that are on the bus anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour >> the older they are. >> And
029that's that's morning and afternoon. >> And uh so, and >> if we lose these community schools, I'm assuming that that distance would increase. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yeah, it would increase some. And I, you know, I can tell you even even in smaller geographical counties, you still have bus rides that are that long. So, you know, you've got kids with you got kids with 10-hour school days. >> Has any data been collected on how that may affect student behavior and outcomes? >> Not to my knowledge. No. Now, I I I know that Marshall University um conducted a study a few years ago on uh on school size and travel distance and uh socioeconomic status and and found that uh the students who were in the lower echelons of uh social socioeconomic status were disproportionately impacted
030in a negative way when they went, you know, to a larger school or had to be busted further. Um so there there is precedent for that and there's there have been studies outside of West Virginia uh also to that effect which uh corroborate those findings. Well that that leads to item D which is a rural school protection clause and the purpose would be to prevent unavoidable closure of isolated rural schools due to enrollment based funding. And uh what we would suggest as one possible idea is that counties would be allowed to designate one rural anchor school that would be funded at a guaranteed minimum of 150 students uh to help the district support uh keeping the school open. Um so you know we some of the smaller district the state has a guaranteed enrollment number
031for districts uh there if districts fall below uh certain number and I I off the top of my head I can't remember if it's 14500 something like that >> if they fall below that number they are still funded at that 1500 student level so uh our our proposal would be that every uh district be allowed to uh identify a community school or what we would call rural anchor school and that it would have that same protection as the smaller districts have uh where there was a guaranteed minimum funding. This is something that really needs to be looked at. And I talked to you, Senator Maynard. You know, I fought very hard a couple years ago to keep two of our smaller schools open. And I still want to do that, but when you lose, how
032many students have we lost? 200. >> Two. It's 220 this year. >> 215 this year. >> And uh a million and a half. I don't know how long much longer I can hold out on that or help you. You know what I'm saying? And I'm sure there's a lot of other counties in the same predicament like the county you're teaching in probably has the same >> same situation, doesn't it? >> We're facing very similar conditions. Yeah. >> So, we need help and I'm hoping you or some of you can get to some of the leadership up there. >> The um Yeah. the number of closures that have occurred, you know, over the last two years are are historical. >> And and I have um I've reached out to the state superintendent and asked for her
033specific recommendations on how to address this. And I've essentially been uh told, well, it's going to cost a lot of money. That was the the end of it. I got no specific recommendations. In other words, >> priorities, >> huh? >> Comes down to priorities. >> Uh, so anyway, I'm not going to believe that, but um I I do have a question on this. Um, so that the guaranteed minimum of 150 students. Now, let's say you say you don't need 150. Let's say you have 75 for a given year. the excess funding at that point would revert to the state or if I understand the way this is written, you're asking for a set aside or a reserve to be able to fund and guarantee such a school. But then what happens if you know if
034that number isn't of enrollment isn't met and yet you have the funding for that number? >> Yeah. So with with the funding number what that we we currently have um at least four schools that are under 150. So um what we would propose is is to to protect against multiple closures across the district that at least one of those schools that we be able to uh declare those declare that school a rur rural anchor school. and it's always funded at 150 regardless of how many students that they have. >> So what if they go above 150? >> Then it drops the the the rural rank or designation would drop. >> Okay. >> And then they would be funded at whatever their enrollment was. >> But if they're at 75, they're still going to be funded
035at 150. >> So what do you do with the funding that was going to go to the other 75? Well, still that that building and that structure doesn't shrink even if there's just 75 kids versus 150. So, the the funding for that facility isn't going to change. >> You know what I mean? I >> I do see what you're saying. The fixed costs. Um now, particularly if those have already been absorbed and and the facilities paid off for construction purposes and you're basically just dealing with maintenance, that's a different calculation at that point. But um I I'd kind of like to see that fleshed out a little bit more as to exactly how that would work financially. >> Yeah, we can provide you some more information on that. The the real cost and you were
036talking about the district's uh overall budget uh the general fund. Uh 85% of our cost is personnel related and that's where the real cost of operating the small schools comes is is from personnel. uh because you have classes, you know, we're we're funded on a ratio. Uh we're allowed a certain number of professional positions per number of students. Let's say it's 15 students per professional position. Well, if you've got multiple classrooms that are under that 15s size limit, that that eats up your your formula. So, what happens is is when you have uh multiple schools that are spread out and are not at maximum class size, it it's going to it cost you more. And so, it's the personnel cost more than anything, but the building cost is also a concern, especially when you have
037older buildings and you're trying to keep it up. But, we can provide you some specifics on that. That's no problem. But do you think that it might I mean in my mind it's going to be hard to have 150 students if you've got these smaller rural schools with less than 100 or around 50 or something to combine to meet the 150. >> Well, it wouldn't be an actual number of 15, >> right? It's just you >> no matter how many, right? >> We will need five teachers if it's an elementary at the minimum, right? Once we do split grades, whether you have 10 kids class or five, but I was thinking you had to have 150 and I'm thinking how you gonna do that. >> You have a secretary in the building. You have a
038custodian in the building. You >> have a building. >> Yeah. So that's >> if I'm if I'm picking up what you're laying down here a little bit is um you're trying to find a way to to guarantee that that every citizen and and their their children no matter whether they you know live in town or way out in the sticks like a lot of us uh that they're not going to be discriminated against in terms of their educational experience just because of where they happen to live. >> Exactly. And I mean whether whether we do it exactly this way or you know a little different way, it's just you're looking for that guarantee. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Todd, uh what four schools are currently under 150? >> Eastland, Pritchard, Genanoa, and Dunlow. >> I
039got excited on your first bullet point on 2D and then I wasn't so excited on the second bullet point because there was only one in there. I was hoping like there would be some kind of guarantee for for all the schools, but it would be financially financially not >> on size that would be nice. Yeah, we you know we don't want to uh shoot ourselves in the foot and ask for too much. But um the bigger the county, if more anchor schools could be approved, that would be fantastic. >> Yeah. If they were if they were all set at 150, that would be fantastic. Mhm. >> Um >> I don't know if it's the appropriate time to ask this question, but kind of we're talking about funding and probably what everything's about. This is going
040to be kind of a lengthy answer probably, but so with the hope scholarship funding, uh let's just give some generic figure. What's the total cost per student in Wayne County that you Yeah. What's your total cost? >> It's about 7,000 u we receive in state aid funding per student. >> Sorry. total money spent per student because I know the state average 15 and some counties are a lot more 15,000 some and some are a lot less you know the total number >> no I don't know the total number >> let's say it's 15,000 and um hope scholarship is around 5,000 but it's increasing you know every year but let's let's just for practical words say it's 5,000 >> so our federal money that we receive is based on school age population. Okay. So, we get
041this federal money no matter how many students are in our schools, you know, at least through the state, the state money that the state distributes. um charter school kids I think on average somehow get 10,000 you know for their uh enrollment. My question is though for the purposes of um counties where does that extra $10,000 go? My thoughts were that the counties would be, and I don't mean this in any disrespect, but just me thinking, that the counties would be flushed with money because they're getting an extra 10,000 per student that they don't have to educate with this um hope scholarship thing. So, explain that to me. >> Yeah. So, um, again, our on October 1st, the t the state takes a snapshot of how many kids we have enrolled. Okay. >> And then they
042give us I think this year it was what, Jeb? It was 7,000, wasn't it? >> Pretty close. >> Yeah, it was >> total >> 7,000 per student is is the base. Now, you know, they've got some other that funding formula. I've never actually seen the funding formula. Um but the funding formula itself they have um you know there's a certain aotment for transportation and and things like that. So I don't know how they calculate all those amounts but the bottom line is is they they look at our funding based upon the number of students multiplied by 7,000. So if we're down, you know, if we're down 215 students, you can multiply that by $7,000 and that's how much we're going to lose. and then we're going to lose a little bit more because of other
043factors in the funding formula. >> So, do you think the state keeps extra money? Let's let's say it's 7,000. I mean, I'm not saying it's not, but you know, and 5,000 gets jerked out of that 7,000. That leaves 2,000, right? >> For not educating a student. And I'm not, this isn't a gotchi question. I'm just I've asked this for years, you know, and um so I guess depending on when that student leads for the hope scholarship as to whether you get the extra 2,000 or whatever, but the state, wouldn't the state receive that extra? >> I don't know how their system works, how their funding per student comes in. I would be surprised if the federal government's funding them per student. Um, >> no. The federal government funds them per school age children in the
044state according to the census. Has nothing to do with enrollment. >> Okay. Yeah. I I'm not sure how it works there. >> Okay. So, anyway, it's >> We don't see any of that money that goes to charter schools, do we? No, they actually >> they actually um here a couple years ago when uh the Hope Scholarship was approved and charter schools were approved, they actually do a subtraction out of our out of our uh formula in the calculations that they send to us that they show us, you know, that they've taken the number of students, they've multiplied it by 7,000, we get this amount of money, and then they subtract, there's a charter school subtraction that comes out of at to get to our final number >> and we probably even have some more expenses
045that I don't know whether Todd know what it is but the county is expected to uh take care of attendance right >> and uh expulsions and stuff like that for the SC charter schools and we don't have a say they have their own board and they run their own thing, but then when there there's a problem, then we're we have to take care of it. Is that right? >> Well, yeah. If they're dismissed from charter school, we have to >> seems to me like that's a little bit extra expense, too. >> There's no charter schools though in Wayne County, right? >> No. >> I have a question for either one of you. >> There's I think there's a micro school, but I'm not aware of any charters. >> Go ahead, Mark. >> I have a
046question for either one of you. And maybe you can't supply the answer because I couldn't get it, but I would love to see if one of you all or somebody up there could get a cost of the administrative costs for the state board of education. That's money that should be coming in to the students and I feel like it's an extra layer of this is my personal opinion, okay? I'm not speaking for anybody but Mark. I feel like it's a layer that's taking money away from our schools because I was there. I know building six is huge. There's people everywhere. Not bashing the state department of education, but I'm speaking to you and you all know what I'm saying because you're there also. That that's an awfully large group and I would like to know
047what part of that money that you're talking about, Senator Maynard. >> Good question. >> Is paid for the administrative costs instead of coming down to the students that it should be coming down to. At one time I heard there was 400 employees in that building and they didn't teach, administrate, drive an L on the board or take the trash out, you know. So uh >> right when um before the department of education was created the state superintendent just had a basic barebones staff you know and they weren't we weren't asking them to manage all these different departments you know or pro programs for education throughout the state and all that and and really as education has kind of just ballooned out and we've created all sorts of these various programs and so forth uh the
048bureaucracy has bloated up equally and um I think that would be a great place to start. So I appreciate that. I've had similar concerns um myself. So I think we can find that out. >> A lot of answers on that question. >> Okay. Moving on to item three, accountability and transparency. Um, so our conversation kind of led to some some of the talks about the charter schools and and u you know there's private schools, micro schools, etc. Um, we would we think it would be important that all the majority think that it would be important that all publicly funded schools um have an accreditation pathway and that if they're receiving state funds that the there should be some kind of check to see what type of education is being provided through those systems. And that
049would include item B that you see under that number three talks about statewide testing and comparable data. Um that all students in in publicly funded schools that are receiving taxpayer dollars should participate in statewide assessments or approved equivalents. Um and data should be reported so that parents know what they're signing up for when they sign up for the schools. And so I provided you a handout and it's the u sheet that's got three columns. This sheet um this is u proficiency data from last school year uh for districts. And you'll notice that there's 60 schools listed because the public schools the public charters do have to report out. So they are on this list. Uh but there's a number of schools that receive that hope scholarship money that do not have to report out and
050are not on this list. And so you'll see in red, you'll see where uh some of these uh charter schools are uh reporting their numbers. Uh Wayne County is in yellow. The statewide average is also reported. Uh, and you'll see where the rankings for the public charters fall. And if I was a parent and I was sending my students to one of thesemies, I would certainly want to know where they fall within these proficiency rankings. Is this percentage number like based on normal >> testing? Like when I got a 69% it was failing. >> No, no, no. It's the percentage of students that are proficient in that particular subject area. >> Okay. So, so there's testing that goes for grades three through eight. And then at grade 11, all students in in public schools and
051the public charters are are taking the SAT. And so it's the students that are at meet standards or above. That's the percentages that you see. >> So technically, I mean, everybody's failing, right? I mean, according to >> Yes. Like bad failing. >> Yeah. And you'll see those numbers. You'll see some of those numbers nationwide, but yeah, West Virginia ranks lower. Corby, what about 48 maybe out of the Yeah. Uh more reason to pull some money back from the Department of Education. for our guests here and anybody's listening in the the highest ranking county in math is 56.1% highest in English is 62.4 and highest in science is >> 526 yeah and everybody else is below that all the way down to 16.2% 2% in and this is on a >> school like including charter schools
052and county on math is 16.2 is the lowest in uh English is 28.8 and science is 10.9 and that's a I guess a charter school >> correct. >> It's the same charter school at the bottom of the list across the board. >> Yeah, I see that. Yeah. Wow. >> Wow. >> So anyway, we just think that >> we feel that if you know if everybody should report their data out so parents know what they're getting. Uh so when we talk about universal accreditation um and universal assessments and you you mentioned the the hope scholarship um and this all kind of you know it's all one big puzzle. >> Mhm. >> Uh we talk about you know declining enrollment and everything. uh if if we're going to have or discuss a universal accreditation pathway then essentially
053and and if we're going to assess based on that uh and have universal standards essentially is what I'm hearing that would cover public and and private and pretty much every private school and Christian school in the state. So then my question to each one of you and you can answer or remain silent but my question would be I I'll start over here with Mark. Um is Genesis and Exodus history? >> Yes. >> Okay. Should that be included >> on this assessment as such? >> Should should that be included in the state standards? >> I think so. >> Okay. I do too. Personally, um I think that is something that should be taught at home and not on a standardized test. >> So the question of whether it's history or not, either it is history or
054it's not history because it's making factual claims. So we have to wrangle with that type of issue if we're going to go out and say that we're going to accreditate every school in the state. Okay. Just your turn. >> Yeah. the uh the uh the Bible can it concurrently be taught in schools. It has to be taught as literature and not inspired literature. And the reason for that is because teachers come from a variety of backgrounds and a variety of u of different religious beliefs. And so I would agree with Miss Hall that that's best left at home uh for religious instruction. >> Okay. So if we're going to again take over and and offer accreditation or require accreditation and require statewide assessments which are going to align with standards and we currently have uh
055standards which say that we must teach evolution. We must teach that man that you know began as a single cell and and has been evolving upward ever since. You know these are questions. >> I don't think it's thought as fact. I think it's taught as a theory. >> Uh I think if you I think I can provide you with evidence to the contrary quite a bit actually. Um but I I won't belabor the point. We'll move on. Mr. Ashworth. >> Well, I'm a retired minister, so I believe in the Bible and I believe in the history and Genesis stuff. I believe it should be taught, but you have we have to deal with how the law or how the courts line up, too. If it's up to me, Yeah. >> Well, I mean, you are
056a member of the board of education. Um, >> yeah, we, you know, if it was put up for us to do it, I'd vote for it. Yeah. So we're living in times where many Supreme Court decisions have gone uh in a new direction in recent years. So you know we have perhaps the golden opportunity to address issues such as this. And the fact is that uh the book of Genesis it outlines certain origins of mankind and and of the universe and of this earth as fact. And at the same time we have uh embedded throughout our curriculum an evolutionary atheistic Marxist worldview. It's all throughout it. The assumptions are baked in and we have Christian teachers who are going out there trying to wrangle with this and trying to cover the bases legally while at
057the same time not violating their convictions. Uh so the question that we come back to is is Genesis and Exodus are they history or are they not? Are they fact or are they fiction? If we say we believe they're fact then we better be following that through with some action. >> Amen. >> Now uh we're going to move on down here. Mr. Troutwine back to fiction. I'll give you a very long and very personal answer. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior on August 25, 1962. I was baptized in the waters of 12 Pole Creek about a 10-minute drive from here. I believe that Jesus is, not was, is the son of God, >> part of the triune God. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Yes, sir. >>
058From the book of Genesis through the book of Revelation. >> Amen. >> I fully believe in that. I am aware that we live in a multicultural society. I am certainly aware of the court decisions in the last 200 plus years in this country. I I have friends who are not Christian and I could give you a litany of all the other religious beliefs. If they are not a Christian, I do not agree with those beliefs. And for that matter, there are professed Christians with whom I do disagree certain areas and how they interpret the scriptures. So I absolutely agree in the Bible. Now, from a legal standpoint, well, and some people don't even like the terms denominations, but they're certainly differing. Oh, my goodness, Catholicism versus Protestantism. And certainly among the Protestants, they're divided in
059a lot of different ways. I would not I don't have any children of school age anymore. I would not have wanted my sons to have in a public school been taught that they have to follow Catholicism or something like let alone the various non-Christian beliefs. So to me there's a little bit of a tension in what I adamantly believe and what we can do as a school system. I genesis revelation I believe in every bit of it. What can we do as a school system under our present system of government? that that is where the tension is for me. >> Can we teach the West Virginia Constitution? Because when you read it, it very explicitly contains a statement of faith. It's very specific and uh it it states that every facet under that preamble in
060our constitution, every provision including those affecting and having to do with education are there to reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God. It's right there in black and white. Furthermore, the Declaration of Independence in um you know our charter documents lays out very clearly that we are endowed by our creator with un unalienable rights. So then we get into this question of if we are not considering ourselves and teaching our children that we are created beings that we're from a divine origin then therefore we do not have divine origin of rights either. So how do we go and and teach them about the American Revolution and who they are as citizens in America if they don't have rights which came from God? >> Well, we teach them and we absolutely teach them through
061the declar I know recently we had Frank having this discussion. a uh United States senator from Virginia a month or two ago proclaimed it was outrageous that somebody indicated our rights came from God and not from the uh state. I found that an astounding pronouncement not only because yeah our founding documents we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and among their rights but it's they're endowed by their creator I know President Kennedy in his inaugural address he talked about you know the oath that he had taken and that the rights did not come from the state they came from God and I absolutely believe in that. Now, the one thing I would not support, well, I'm not an advocate of just running into a wall if I know
062there's no other choice, but I frankly would not advocate having all of my religious beliefs in the school system. Well, I'm going to teach all the kids that, hey, they're to be baptized by immersion, not not sprinkled. You know, you get in you get into a ton of legal issues there. Eternal security or not, uh predestination, all of that. I I wouldn't want to get into that in the school system. I I don't think that anyone's arguing that uh we need to go down every doctrinal rabbit trail. I think the question is whether or not uh the curriculum which is being taught officially in the schools preludes and is hostile toward a Christian worldview. And I would argue that as it currently stands, it is. Um, you know, it's it's hard to to explain to
063someone uh 5 days a week, 8 hours a day that, you know, that death has just always been part of the construct of the universe and then teach them on Sunday morning that actually no, uh, death came uh, by sin through Adam. Uh, these are completely contradictory concepts. And so I'm bringing it back. I say all this for a reason, okay? We had a discussion about enrollment. We had a discussion about the community and and uh why people are making the choices they're making. Why are people taking up this offer to, you know, take the hope scholarship or to go to a charter school or whatever. And I think that if if the school districts and the state board and the state superintendent and the entire structure of the West Virginia education establishment doesn't begin
064to recognize that parents perceive rightly, I would argue that there's a divergence between the values that they hold dear to themselves and within the communities and the values which are being promoted within the schools at large. I'm not saying every school is, you know, as bad as another one, but at large in general, in the aggregate, um, our our children are being trained in a an atheistic, uh, materialistic Marxist manner far more and being influenced in that direction far more than they are being influenced toward a Christian worldview for the 8 to 10 hours they spend each day in uh, in government supervision. So, I think if if our school system is willing to acknowledge that significant changes need to be made and maybe take up that mantle and begin to uh reconciliate with the
065communities and with the people of West Virginia, you might find that not only that, you know, the legislature uh who represents these people starts to gather more support for for the cause of public education. Um I I think you would find that u support would begin to materialize from a number of directions that probably you're not getting it from right now. That's something you need to think about. >> I would like to chime in on that just a slight amount. >> Go right ahead. Uh not sure which all states have taken the lead on this, but Oklahoma comes to mind. our state superintendent sent out Bibles to every school wanted them in every classroom and they wanted the Bibles to be taught to the classroom that they have taken the initiative that even all the
066way down I think second grade that students are to learn that Jesus Christ the values biblical values drove the pilgrims and the colonialists and and everyone in the early days of the country and and on through I have spoken to many people across the state and I'm quite aware we have a lot of very good board members good administrators and good teachers but there is a crying well there is a concern that the schools themselves and the curriculum is godlits at best and perhaps leans very hard on extreme socialistic dewism and I have always been an educator. I'm a fan of public education. However, they make a good case and I think we're going to continue to have a lot of folks leave the schools if we cannot turn the ship. we would be within
067most case most cases. I I I do believe to insert early history such as Genesis and Exodus and Christian values, you know, article 12, I think article 12, section 12 puts the schools if if I'm not mistaken in West Virginia over that of morality. And if we do not have Christian or at least Abrahamic based morality, I don't really know what type of morality we may have. But if we send folks out on a scavenger hunt to find their own their own morality, we may not be too surprised to find some bad things when they come back with their own morality. Oh, I I don't think we'd be the first ones to do what Dr. Dan suggested. That's all I have. >> I have something I want to bring up at this point. And it
068may not be the time, but it's going to be. >> First of all, I want to thank you all for getting that bill passed, but the signs and God we trust. We were able to get it through the House and then the Senate did this year. And thank you. >> Yes. And I want to bring to the board's attention that I have churches that have volunteered to pay for smaller signs to make available for every classroom in Wayne County if a teacher chooses to put them in their classroom to put them in the schools. I spoke with Mr. Alexander about it the other day and I would like that if it needs to be put on the agenda or whatnot for the next board meeting, I would like to put that on the agenda so
069we could vote on it and make it a possibility for that those churches could provide those. No cost to us, no cost to the taxpayers whatsoever. The churches are willing to do that. That's awesome. >> And it just popped in. >> Also, Mark, I have connections with the original company that paid for the signs and the printing company that printed them at cost, too. So, let's use those instead of, you know, if we can get funding for that, I'm sure that we might be able to do that. >> Also, on the comments from Delegate Dylan, uh, you know, it's a tough discussion, but I'm glad he brought it up. And, you know, and it's something that that we need to talk about. We're talking about how to get more kids in our school, you know,
070and I wouldn't doubt that, you know, there's conferences where educators and board members go and you see what's going on in the nation and what topics are supposed to, you know, that's currently trending. But this discussion may help our whole state if we think about what the parents of the county want. And I think that uh you know really the schools should be an extension of what the parent approves of. >> Absolutely. And if we did more um you know faith-based studies, you know, let let the parents have a say so in you know uh I would hate for the parents to to not want it, but you know if they do and I think we're blessed with uh you know an awesome county here with strong Christian values And that may be an answer,
071you know, an answer to increasing enroll. You know, probably I'd say a lot of parents pull their kids out because they're they're not happy with some, you know, influencing that they're getting or something. They want to, you know, make a difference and be more, you know, in charge of what their kids hearing. But you know if a class like this is something that would you know it may keep a few kids in school that the parents are pulling out right now. So >> are you suggesting having a separate class? you know, >> teach that pro >> it would I think a Bible class would uh you know now of course >> like has been discussed you know not getting into denominations and probably not into interpretation >> right >> but uh I think it would
072make a statement you know and of course there'd probably be some uh you'd want to get approval of the parent somehow and I don't know how that would I know what Dylan said, a factual historical knocking. >> And that's just one example. >> Either it is or it isn't. And and there's a lot of evidence which is currently not even being discussed. Not even being you can't even bring it up. In fact, we had a bill that came up uh either last year or the year before, you know, allowing teachers to discuss intelligent design or alternative theories, you know, to evolution. and and that was never even >> you know it got shot down >> and um it's just it's a shame because it is in the standards the common ancestry >> nationalis um >>
073intelligent design we were trying to slip it through that anymore >> you know so um common ancestry is uh is in and that is evolution that that is in the state standards it has to be taught and then the the curriculum publishers, they take that and they they run with that nine more steps, okay? And they make assertions that they can't even begin to back up and they create narratives like Lucy, which you'll find in the social studies books uh about, you know, this uh primate who lived however many million years ago that that they create this whole narrative around and try to humanize this figure which never even existed. They create their own mythology and then they then they turn around and say, "Well, the Bible isn't isn't real. It's just a man-made myth."
074Well, they're very clearly making up their own mythology and presenting it as science. I mean, I I will you know what? I'll just probably make a post about that and provide some of the u uh the specifics, but that's just one example. It's just it runs throughout the curriculum and in multi multiple facets. And I will I will close with this. Uh as a parent, yes, it's important to teach your your children how to read and how to do two plus two, which you know, I believe that if my student if my children were enrolled in public school, they would learn how to do those things just fine. I did. I made it through somehow. Um, but much more important than that, in a state like ours, parents understand that their number one job is
075to steer their kids toward heaven. And I think when we take an objective look at why many parents are choosing not to have their their children in public school, it's because they will be spending so much time under influences both in the curriculum and not in the curriculum. I mean, you also have to look at the the social considerations and who they're spending time around. And in a state like ours, we have to be understanding that parents don't want a school system that's going to undermine their fundamental faith and values. And I'm going to leave it right there. >> Can I ask you a question? Do you think it'd be good for the legislature to maybe try to set up some kind of survey and see what kind of, you know, views that the parents
076in general have cuz not everybody's going to not, you know, he's he's a preacher and I'm a preacher, but we don't dis agree on everything. >> Yeah. Well, >> but we agree on on our uh uh salvation in Christ. So, and you got you got to remember when you're in a public school, you you're mixed in with everybody >> and and uh >> you know, you please one group and another group rises up. So, we're in this precarious position where we try to operate by trying to adhere to our own values and our own beliefs. But at the same time provide an education for the children with the least disruption. >> Yeah. >> You understand what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I do. So, um >> uh you know, if if it was up to me,
077I agree. You know, >> so last year, um I had a resolution I put up. It was HJR21 as uh as I recall. Actually, it was just just this past um uh session. And let me see if I can pull it up here and uh and read it. this if this would have passed uh through the legislature, it would have gone out to the people and uh people would have gotten to vote on it just like they did on the preamble of the West Virginia Constitution, the same one which stated that all the provisions of the Constitution exist to reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God. Um the same process will be followed for HJR 21. Uh or is it H? Let's see. It was just anyway. U trying to pull it up
078here real quick. But what it did was it put to the people the question of whether the Holy Bible should be recognized as a literal historical document and should be given a place of prominence and recognition in our public buildings and in our schools. It was that simple. it would go out to the public and then by from that point it would be part of the constitution issue would be settled. So if each one of you would like to you know express your support uh for such a resolution I'm sure it would be very helpful uh to the cause and would help you know resolve this entire u issue. The um final thing that was on the list tonight, we were talking about what started the dialogue that that occurred there was the u idea
079about statewide statewide testing and that if you're receiving state funds um that you uh should report out your results so parents know exactly what they're getting. Um the second item I would bring up and and this is the final item is that homeschool testing submissions uh used to occur yearly. Used to occur annually and that has been um that has been changed. I think it's grades 3, 5, 8, and 11. And uh we've seen some horrible cases in the state of West Virginia where kids were undergoing serious neglect and abuse. And um we would ask you to consider if you have a chance to support um those homeschool testing submissions that prog uh progress being reported on a yearly basis. We know that there's um families out there that do a good job with homeschooling.
080I know there's a lot that do not and uh the idea of them um submitting yearly assessments again so that uh there's a little bit more accountability with that system. I know for some f folks that's not necessary and uh it's an inconvenience for them but I think it would help avoid some of the situations that we've seen play out in the news over the last year or two. >> You want to touch that? Well, actually, no. Since you're a homeschooler, won't you >> I will touch it. I will touch it. Absolutely not. Um, you're asking the same people who opted out of this system to come back and report to this system on whether they're doing a good job or not. There's a reason my five children are homeschooled. And uh, we need to
081stay out of our business. I think those big issues we had I I can only think of of one maybe two that was in the system state patrol state police had visited was kicked over to CPS and the government dropped the ball. So I'm not real sure if enrolling everyone back into the system that they're trying to escape is the right answer. I'm not saying it's a bad system, but they certainly don't want to be in it. And I don't think that that would have helped solved either of those issues that I could think of. There might be a third one that I don't know of. >> Yeah. Well, I I know for decades that the the requirement was that it occurred yearly and um um you know, that changed here, you know, within the
082last decade. And I would again say that an inconvenience for some that that protects children uh overall is it's worth the inconvenience. So that's all I'd say about that. Board members, anything else? Any other questions? >> No. >> Comments? >> I got a question. >> Hold on. um our legislators. Um any other questions from you? Anything you want to speak to? >> Got a little statement. Um first off, thank you for putting together that enrollment stabil stabilization roundt thing last week. >> Yeah. Um, but one thing maybe let the parents uh I mean they were there and and but maybe more of a way to hear why they're pulling their kids out of school, you know, and maybe, you know, something some issue they have is has a lot of popularity, then maybe look at
083trying to craft that and, you know, from a countywide way or maybe a school according to a certain school. if you got, you know, parents that want something taught there or have a problem, you know, just a little bit more um report >> looking at exit interviews with >> Yes, I brought that up, Senator, at the last or board meeting before last. I brought that up and you were going to implement that in >> this year. >> This this year, >> right? >> Yeah. Then we're going to go back we're going to go back and try to catch anybody that's withdrawn this year. And one other thing I want to know >> that that I thought of >> probably closing community schools is not going to stabilize the enrollment. I don't know. But I would
084think if you you know close the school in a little community and you had a parent that was like on the on the border of sending their kids to school anyway instead of have putting them on a bus at 5:30 a.m. you know. they'll probably opt out when you close their community school. Just a I don't know, but just something to think about. >> I think that's the that's the problem. I mean, we we are faced with an issue of balancing our budget or saving our community schools, which we have worked hard to keep. I mean, you can look at our our schools. I mean, we have two of the smallest schools in the state probably, and we've fought tooth and nail to keep them, but it's coming to a point where either we're going
085to be responsible for that deficit or we're going to have to do something that's super difficult. >> Four four out of the 18 are the some of the smallest schools in in this state. >> So, it's not the fact that we don't want our community schools. That's what we're what we've always based ourselves on. It's a fact that the budget only stretches so far and we have to be responsible and we have to keep a certain amount in reserve and you know there's just so many rules that we have to follow. So it's not that that's what we want to do because we know that's where that's going to lead. Senator, I grew up I went to a one room school for my first four or five years and I fought to keep our two
086smallest schools open. But then we're precariously balanced on our