001Good morning and welcome to the Greenfield Public Schools ad hoc subcommittee. Um, I'm looking for my agenda. Uh, [clears throat] lost it. Okay. Uh, the Greenfield Public Schools Chapter 70 ad hoc subcommittee meeting for Friday, October 31st, 2025. Uh, this committee is me and Child's and Elizabeth Teneive. Um, we'll call the role. Ann, >> I'm here. >> And I am here. And Elizabeth is not here, but plans to be late, but us start without her. So, we're um starting our meeting at 8:05 a.m. Um, this meeting is being recorded. If any other person's present or also recording, you must notify the chairperson of the subcommittee at this time. Hearing none. Um let's see. There's no one here for public comment. So we'll move on to discussion of ideas to present at the November 6, 2025
002chapter 70 local funding contribution meeting. Um and um I guess I'd like us to be able to work in a less formal manner. So, I wanted to ask for a motion to suspend the normal rules of order so we can work in a workshop format. >> So, moved. >> And I'll second. Any discussion? All right, let's vote. Ann, >> yes. >> And I'm a yes. So, we can work in a workshop format. So, actually it's not just for the November 6th session, although the same talking points can be used for other ones, but I think there's two hearings. Which one are you planning to do, man? >> I was going to go to the inperson one. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. When's that one? >> Uh, that one is Well, I've got it. Um, >> it's
003probably the November one. >> Yes. Actually, I've got it in the email right here. November 6th. Indeed. >> Okay. And then Elizabeth's doing the online one >> which is November 18th. >> Okay, great. And then we also talked about um having a letter for the uh school committee to um review and possibly approve. So, um, this morning with the, uh, I I shared, uh, some draft talking points and a draft letter. Um, were you able to, to get that in? Are you looking? >> I spend I spent the last few minutes reviewing. >> Okay. Do you want to spend some more time looking at it? >> Um, I think I'm ready to discuss stuff. Unless it's convenient for me to look at it while we wait for Elizabeth, then I could always read it again.
004Uh I mean if you feel ready to discuss why don't we discuss. >> Okay. Um generally think it's great start. There are two things that I think are missing from it. >> Okay. Um, so one of them we beat around the bush a little bit and I think it might be stronger if we more directly state that the required contribution creates this false idea of what it takes to educate a student. Uh we talk a little bit about our higher needs, but even without the higher needs, simple formula has not kept up with the cost of doing business in this state. And because we will constantly if you're asking for school funding, the push back from city side will be, "Oh, well, we're already funding above the contribution, so this is a generous district that
005has already gone above and beyond when our basic needs are still not being met, if that makes sense." >> Yeah, exactly. So you're saying essentially the formula creates like a set point of expectations like well >> we're going above what's being expected of us so we must already be doing more than we need to be doing >> when it doesn't actually meet the minimum needs at all. >> Yeah. Okay. Great. It's a wonderful talking point. I wonder which section that would go under. I guess partly would be Maybe there'll be a requested change and probably under the >> because I mean it really fits the high educational well not really high educational needs it fits chronic well the impact of the chronic Yeah. But maybe it's a new problem. Maybe it's the problem four. >>
006Maybe. >> Yeah. creates an artificial set point for municipal contributions. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um Oops. What happened to my There you go. Um, I think from a strategic standpoint, it might be better to have this as problem three and Greenfield having a high educational need as problem four. >> Oh, okay. because I think that way we'll go from, you know, proposition two and a half restricting local revenue growth, the numbers to numbers, and then end on the stronger point of here are these needy, vulnerable students that we are not serving. >> Thanks. I'm getting buzzed by signal here. Um being distracted by other things. Okay. Amazing. Great. false reception. I mean, where I'm getting hung up a little bit is like, yeah, it does. You're right. Exactly. It does create this feeling that
007the municipality is already doing enough when it needs to do more for education, but the reason it has to do more is because the state isn't contributing more of its part. But um by setting it uh >> Mhm. >> Um >> and that's how you get hold harmless situations like Northampton. >> What's the hold harmless? >> Well, the hold harmless um basically the state is acknowledging that yeah, they don't actually have the money that it takes in order to run their schools. And so they've got a little bit of an exemption. You know what? I'm not phrasing this well, so give me one moment to do the research. >> Yeah. Great. >> I am not at my best in the morning. >> You're doing you're doing just fine. I really appreciate you being here so
008early. >> Yes. So the hold harmless means that the district funding is guaranteed to not decrease from the previous year even if enrollment drops. um to protect from the sudden funding loss because you know they don't have enough money to run their schools. So you know they lose students they have even less money deeper in the hole. >> Yeah. So, the trade-off is you're guaranteed that minimum funding level. Um, but you also can't keep pace with your rising costs because of your shrinking enrollment. So, the aid stays the same. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. I'm working on that. Um, other talking point. >> Morning, Elizabeth. Good morning. I'm sorry, you guys. >> No problem. Just want to note for the record that member Den joined us at 8:14 a.m. Welcome. All right. I'm uh here's some possible
009language for us. Uh we're working in these documents I sent out this morning. Elizabeth, >> are you working in the um in the letter or the possible public testimony? >> Uh there's 70 talking points. >> Okay. We're on uh we are creating a uh problem three. Um >> Problem three. Okay. I'm here with you. >> And all we did before we get here was we suspended the normal rules of order so we could be in kind of a workshop format. >> Wonderful. Welcome to this. Maybe um it creates I think there's a word missing. It creates the false perception in the community that a school district is being funded above and beyond. Are we missing an is? >> Yeah. Um, >> well, budgets don't actually cover the true cost of educating serving the committee. >>
010It's almost like we need two tables. One of what the state says and what that is needed and one that is actually needed. >> You know what I mean? Like they don't match. So, I see what you guys are are doing. >> Yeah. The other thing is this is going to be like a menu for you both because I'm guessing with the amount of time that you have, you won't be able to get to every single point, but >> you'll have a toolkit. >> No, that's really really helpful. Um, we had something kind of like this when we went to the state house, but not as extensive. And it seemed like, um, it really helped once you were able to sort of address some of these points, they stood up and listened a little bit
011more. Mhm. Yeah. Do you have you had a chance to look at the talking points? I know I just sent them like a few minutes ago, but feel free to read through them and >> know if there's any additions or changes that you would like. >> I'm I'm going through them now kind of at the same time that Ann is typing. >> Oh, okay. [laughter] >> This meeting is going to be riveting for anyone who watches [laughter] in the future. >> Oh, yeah. You get to see us concentrate and type. Everyone type extra loud so that anyone watching knows how active. Oh, I should have swapped out because I've got a really clicky mechanical keyboard. That's for times when I wish to type more aggressively. >> Then everyone will know you're working even harder and
012>> yeah, I just can't use it for gaming because the muscle memory is different. So, what little fast twitch gaming reflexes I have would be shot. I think maybe maybe one thing that we could really bring home to them is that we're a lowincome high needs district. [clears throat] >> And so like there's nothing wrong with that, but they don't that doesn't the chapter 70 funding formulation doesn't serve that. >> And so like every district is going to be different. Some districts are wealthy with low needs or high needs and wealth. Like there's so many combos. And so to lump everyone into one formula sort of leaves children behind. >> Yeah, that's under problem four. If you want to take a look at that one, I think we >> Oh, I Okay, I see. I
013was sticking with Ann, but I'm going to go down. >> Yeah, >> these are good. >> [snorts] >> I really like um that last uh bit that you put for problem three. Um I just highlighted it because does it show that I've got it highlighted? >> Yeah. Yeah, I really like that a lot. I think that nails it well and also transitions to problem four really well. >> Well, I mean the part above it transitions well, but the that is a very strong point. And I think that's one of the things that we'll need to hammer in the hardest. >> I really like having this document also because I don't think that we're only going to have to talk about this one time. Like we keep having to talk about this and having something approved
014by the school committee. >> You're right. Yeah. is great because when we have these situations come up, we can like >> reference them and know that we're within the bounds of legality to talk about it. We should have documents for um all the other things that significantly affect us like special education costs and >> um all these other uh rural school funding, all these other things that come up that we have to talk to legislators about. >> We don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. That's a great idea. >> Yes, definitely. [laughter] >> Sorry. Let Let me feed my cat really quick while I [laughter] >> Sure. Now, something that I need to figure out is whether or not the Commerford's call for um the local contribution study is a part of bill S2614
015or not. Because if it is, then we've got something a little bit more problematic because there are other elements of that bill that are not great. >> Is that the rural schools bill? >> That is her um charter funding reform. >> Oh, I see. Okay, I've pulled it up. the charter. That's that's one of the things like she has a couple bills that are helpful to us but aren't really us >> because we're in that weird in between phase where we're neither rural nor urban >> and there are a lot of districts in that in that state and like I think they have a class on it when we're in Hyannis about like how to how to do governance in the these in between purgatories. >> Yeah. or like a donut hole whatever >> category.
016>> Yeah. The the problem with the charter funding bill is it does end up privileging districts that already have a lot more money. Um if you've talked at all with Jesus, he has a lot to say about it. Any other notes or thoughts on on this? >> Um, I think we might want to also have a note that while the study is badly needed and re you know and readjusting the numbers to reflect reality are also needed. This can only be an early step. This cannot be okay mission accomplished. we do the study, we might change one number. It needs to be part of comprehensive reform. >> Okay, maybe that's under uh >> closing maybe. >> Well, two things. Um under requested changes. Um, we can put that that Ann just mentioned, but also maybe
017we want to think about that set pointish problem and whether there's a requested change related to that, but um I guess we're saying >> well I guess a requested change related to that is um to revise the formula to reflect funding realities and the true cost. Yeah, I guess it does say that better reflect real municipal fiscal capacity and economic constraints, >> but then also reflect just flat out what it costs to educate. >> Uh, yeah. >> Do we have any like specific examples of things that have happened in Greenfield that have been affected by the funding formula formula not being accurate? like specific programs that we can say like we would have had that if we had more money. I just wonder >> Spanish at the middle school um during the pandemic when art
018and music got all chopped out of existence >> and how you know it took a lot of effort from the people in our town to uh fight to get that put back in and even then every time there's a budget shortfall it is right back on the chopping block again and you you can't run a school like that >> right? So the programs that um that are most beloved and looked forward to by the students, the ones that create the most community and cultural understanding gets are always on the chopping block first >> um simply because they are not the required by law. Even though music will increase academic performance, it will prevent behavior problems. it will give kids a reason to want to go to school. >> I think these kinds of impassioned moments
019that we feel about these kinds of subjects really cut through when we talk to when we talk to them and make testimony about these things. >> Um if we can connect, you know, if we can tell a like essentially a story, a tiny little mini story within this >> seems to be very valuable. Um because they like like Cmerford is going to go further with this and they're going to go and testify to their next rung up the ladder and so on and so forth and they'll take those stories and they'll specifically say we we heard in Greenfield or we heard in Hadley that they couldn't have X Y and Z because of this. >> Do you know what I mean? It's like a little bit more human interest. >> Well, yeah. Like the reason
020I got involved in the school was when my kid started at elementary school in Greenfield and I learned about the lack of a school librarian which was absolutely insane because having a licensed school librarian will increase not just your reading scores but your math scores as well and especially at the early level when you know young literacy that's the best time to get it in. And so that's how I got involved. Uh, I was volunteering as basically an unpaid part-time job so that my kids school would have a librarian. >> Mhm. That's really valuable testimony to legislators. They want those human stories so they can say, >> "Well, it is insane to be in one of the richest states in the country and have schools that don't even have school librarians." Mhm. >> And we've
021struggled a lot with that also at the middle school and high school level where um because of funding challenges h have had to try to double dip employees and have them working at multiple schools which ends up with a a schedule that they can't possibly do. They're lunchtime is enough time to move from one school to the next rather than prep time. or we have people who are supposed to be specials, but they end up having to cover for long-term substitutes because we can't retain staff at the pay levels we can afford to offer. >> Do you remember how when we went as a coalition, we specifically said to them, chapter 7 funding subcommittee has not met in many years. >> Like, and now they're talking about meeting. So I sort of feel like whatever
022we did, we did something as a group that I think maybe made an impact. >> Mhm. >> What what was it? What can we carry forward, you know? >> Well, I think a big part of it was because it wasn't just a random town in Western Mass. It was a group of towns combined with Boston Teachers Union and some of those other Eastern Mass towns. I think it was because >> we say that >> maybe we say we came to you with all these other school committees and with the teachers union >> to talk to you about this and >> because though the cha though the specific impacts will vary, you know, most districts in the state are struggling this in similar ways, >> right? But because we met as a coalition, we sort of
023gave each other the ability to reference those other schools. And that's kind of that's power. Like Sunderland will probably say, "I went with Greenfield to Boston to do this." Like we could say, "We went with Sunderland to do this." And Ammerst and Hadley and you know, [clears throat] >> there's a list in the old Google doc of all the committees we went with. >> Yeah. >> So that might be something to add near the end. like we're not just Greenfield, we're not just a county seat, but we're actually a coalition, an informal coalition of all these committees and we've already started doing this work. >> We've already identified that this is necessary and so we're here to like help you and bolster you um and support this >> might be might be weightier. I don't
024know. >> I agree. Well, especially because I do know from the meeting that I the Zoom meeting I did with the group in commer for just how many weeks ago was that? I can't remember. Um that she's really looking for um people to support and give the weight behind so that she's not just saying, "Hey, Boston this thing." And Boston being like, "No." >> Right. Um, I added a bullet point about the the I wrote implement changes within a comprehensive strategy that simultaneously addresses structural cost drivers, including special education services, transportation mandates, and the impact of charter school tuition assessments. Is that good? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, all right. Does this look like a good enough tool for you all to use for your um public comments and can be used as a tool
025going forward like Elizabeth was talking about? >> Definitely. >> I think so. Yeah. >> All right. Should we um vote to uh approve this uh as it is currently? >> Sure. >> Okay. I look to your motion to approve. I move we approve the talking points as a tool to use for discussing chapter 70. >> I second. >> Okay. Any discussion? Okay. So, we'll consider this locked. Um, this is the one that we voted on. Uh, oh, we didn't vote yet. Um, let's vote. Ann, >> yes. >> Elizabeth, >> yes. >> And me, I'm a yes. Okay. Um, and then there's a letter that's for the full school committee. Um, I guess I can incorporate some of the other changes from the talking points, but um, I guess I don't know if I need we
026will look at this as a full school committee, but maybe what I would look for after you've had a chance to read it is the motion uh, to um, direct me to um revise this draft letter in light of the changes we made to the talking points um in for presentation to the school committee in November. >> I did revise one of the lines, but I could remove that. It was the uh first recommended change that brought it in line with talking points by mentioning the actual cost of education as well as real world fiscal capacity. Okay, great. >> And I really love the ensure that student need not theoretical municipal effort drives state funding. >> That's great. >> That is just such a wonderful point. >> Yeah. >> But so you just want a
027motion to revise the letter to bring it into alignment with the talking points document. >> Yeah. Yeah. You would be directing me to to do that for presentation to the school committee. um for a vote and the November meeting. >> Okay. I move to direct uh chair uh Mrs. Johnson to revise the chapter 70 letter uh in accordance with the talking points document for presentation to the full committee. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All right, let's vote. Ann, >> yes. >> Elizabeth, >> yes. >> And I'm a yes. Great. Um, then I think we're done with the business for this meeting unless anyone has anything else related they want to discuss. >> Just thank you so much for doing this, Glenn, and for working on this. It's really wonderful. >> My pleasure. Thank you. >>
028It was great to not start the meeting from zero. >> Yeah. Um, I appreciate you both being here despite the hour. So, thank you for that. And I would hear a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. Any discussion? And >> I vote yes. >> Elizabeth, >> yes. >> And I'm a yes. Uh, so we're adjourned at 8:35 a.m. >> Thank you.