001like to call to order the May 1st 2024 budget and finance subcommittee meeting of the Greenfield school committee at 3:04 p.m. and uh I will take a roll call uh for myself Vice chair Martini present member Childs present and member genive is not present with us today because she's not able to attend and we have a quorum so with that uh let's dive right into the agenda the first item of which is an update on the um FY 25 budget well I will start and then Andy certainly can um fill in the blanks um we went to the ways means meeting for our operating budget last week I think last Tuesday if I can recall correctly um lot of questions about um you know specific changes a lot of the Staffing changes that um we
002talked about at the school committee meeting with the budget presentation like the fluctuation from one line to the next that we talked about um some questions from from uh one of the city councilors about why we pay for parking at the church parking lot um I'll share with both of you it is not just our buses that park there we do not have sufficient parking at the middle school in and of itself for all of the central office staff and the Middle School staff so it's not just a matter of moving buses um so I don't know if that resolved the question but um that was a topic uh of discussion um I'm trying to think if there was anything else significant um there was some public comment on the front end um about uh
003priorities for um music program but the um parent um had some made some statement that suggested some um incorrect information about the budget process like there should be a line for music supplies in the high school budget for an example so Andy spent um I think a fair amount of time outlining for Ways and Means why accounts are the way they are what we've talked about at school committee in terms of really needing to streamline the accounts and the challenge that we will have the committee will have for a while in terms of comparing Apples to Apples if we were to um connect FTE to each budget line we can do that but over time that won't really represent the FTE in each building because they might move from one line to the next year
004to year um so we had quite a bit of that conversation and um outside of that I I feel like we did a pretty thorough discussion and I think I think the committee is aware um the mayor recommended a 4% budget increase for the schools instead of the 5.86 that the committee um voted on but it we had a we identified a billing issue that had been in place with KM muscus and so we have um a credit with the company so we're going to take that credit next year to help offset some of the difference between school committee's budget and what the mayor moved forward and then we will also um use some special ed revolving to fund some of the specialed tuitions so we were able to address the mayor's budget amount um
005without any impact on staff thing to address the Mayors we do have a few staff reductions due to enrollment we had bubble classes that are now not going to be in the buildings where they were and such so um we do have a couple potential stuffing changes due to that not due to the budget so now we wait for the end of ways and means meetings and then it goes to city council okay they also did fund the money requested with the ele for the elevator repair Ways and Means um did recommend that funding okay questions member child um I don't think I really have questions because the only one would have been about the Staffing reductions being due to the bubble class issue and I think it was pretty well explained okay uh I
006have a question so you can get another minute to think on it um are there any um potential non-staff reductions in relation to the mayor's budget as compared not at this point okay no we've um I I say that like I said we could address the entirety of the difference between what school committee voted and the mayor's recommendation um by using special ed revolving and then with the transportation credit so at this point no but certainly um any further reduction would result in non-staff changes okay we have you might be happy to hear this if I haven't shared it forgive me I'm not remember if I shared this at the full committee I think I did we did hire um the two music positions okay and saying yes so I did talk about this yeah
007which is which is positive we hired in elementary library media specialist right Karen that was yes so we're very excited about that um so um you know and and that's good to get those hires now for next year is very encouraging I think it is unfortunate that we potentially have opportunities to interview and hire people because many of the districts in western Mass are having to make substantial budget reductions so they're you know we have applicants because their jobs are getting cut in other places okay what were the numbers on the credit that we had with KM Mascus and um the use of the special education revolving Andy will know the credit was $1 13,831 40 and we ended up using the transportation revolve or sped tuition revolving the balance is that 163,944 okay and
008even then if I may the when we built the budget the uh amount that we normally use out of the transport or I should say the special education tuition revolving is give you an idea $300,000 so not that we're quote unquote hoarding money or anything but it does give us flexibility for any unanticipated special education expenses that might occur next year where we're we're using just about a little more than half of what we normally project to use each year so it's not decimating anything where we're even so let's play out the scenario as far as a concern of some nonoperating cuts that if you know city council were to do something there's we would be able to have discussion as to whether or not we would even need to make those cuts I I
009would like to uh amend your statement Andy a little bit to say we still could have unanticipated special ed now I just don't want anyone to think that even though we're in May that because we are in May the special ed budget is static at this point it it most definitely is not okay um was there anything else that you thought was important to add Christine or Andy uh I always feel like it's important to share the fact that last year we talked a lot about addressing the $2 million issue not using eer funds for Staffing going forward I know there was some strong feelings about that and we did have some staffing changes last year but I would like to point out that we are one not cutting stack and two potentially adding positions
010back in and when neighboring districts are cutting 10 17 20 positions for us to be in the position that we are um is what the challenges that we dealt with last year was intended to do so we we took the hit last year to reduce any impact this year and I believe it worked exactly as intended so what about for the year after this next one is it going to be a cut then higher cut then higher thing or is it more of a foundation from last year's tough decisions I mean I know you're not psychic but um I don't know Andy might be are you psychic Andy um I think that we we have set ourselves up well I believe leave um using Revenue sources using um non you we're using our grants very
011effectively we have used our eer funds very effectively and um you know we certainly can't speak to what the city budget will look like going forward you know the mayor was very clear at ways and means that she was using one-time funds to address some increases uh particularly the insurance um we had a significant Insurance increase at the city level I believe it was 177% Andy if that's correct which is a huge impact on the city budget um but I I believe our spending plan and um the way we've used funds sets us up as well as we can be given the uncertainty of FY 26 Andy I don't know if you want to add to that or subract from it no I mean again just a little more detail if we the other funding
012sources that we normally use to offset trans uh the budget the transportation revolving the special education tuition revolving that we just discussed school choice circuit breaker um we in the original fi25 plan if you remember we actually had very little if any of those being used in fi25 and so now again not that I'm going to say that the whole intent of the eer funds were to do exactly what it is that we've done here uh which is in a sense use the eer funds to quote get us through what it is that we have been through without using these other funding sources to potentially buy I'll say buy us time to get back on track for I'll say normal as normals can be funding operations at the city and state and federal level of
013whatever normaly is when it comes to that but you know so uh what I I just alluded to and the other funding sources we using half of what we normally anticipate for school choice in our normal years we weren't touching Transportation revolving uh funds for next year so those are things that I'm going to say not that we're kicking the can down the road but to some ENT we potentially are kicking the can down the road as far as you know I I don't want to say building up the reserves because I'm sure city council people would not like to hear us you know saying that we're actively doing that but to some extent we are it's good budgeting for us to be able to sustain the educational programming that we want here by having
014these funds available to us so that we can make the decisions that we do year to year and then I'll say also that in these times even before covid and the pandemic you know because of the funding that goes on long range planning is year to year you know things change so frequently you both at the state level you know and then in some of the areas that we see some volatility and we just talked about special education could have some maintenance and heating and you know operational things on those sides that just ends up H making us have to make some decisions mid year so all that being said I'd say we are well positioned knock on wood everyone for uh 25 and 26 and hopefully Beyond it remains on my Horizon um for
015FY 26 that the um district will be looking to hire six to seven staff for the expansion of ful year um science and social studies in the middle school and um and we have also previously discussed uh potential Staffing uh changes or adding um in relation to enhancing foreign language instruction that was previously cut um so can you get out your crystal ball and say how uh how confident do you feel about the ability to budget for and absorb those next year so one thing I'd like to put out and absolutely Kate with the redistricting that will take effect in September um basically the work around looking at student numbers and staff needs in the anticipation of September of 25 will will have to be redone almost sorry Karen from the start because it will
016have been by that point three years from when we did our initial uh planning and not to say that our thinking was wrong but you know the numbers will need to be re-evaluated um so when we talked about adding six or seven staff um that is accurate but we will need to look at the numbers of students at the high school in 8th grade that are moving the numberb of students at the high school at that time how many sections we'll need of all of our courses class sizes at all the elementary so at the end to address the needs for full-time science and social studies the over under of numbers might not be that high did that make sense yes good you know so so if our class sizes at the elementary are smaller
017and we only need three of xrade level instead of five then those two staff hopefully can move to teach at the middle school and that's that many less new staff we have to fund so I think that's you know that's a piece Karen will get to look at as she gets partway into next year okay that kind of leads um into my next question is I was wondering if you have any um updates in terms of how kindergarten enrollment is going um we did have numbers we looked at very recently as a matter of fact um the numbers all right Karen you're my memory aid Four Corners at this point is still floating around having one kindergarten as a opposed to two the positive is at Four Corners historically the enrollment that we have about
018this time of year has tended to hold so we feel a little more confident that the enrollment at Four Corners is not going to fluctuate too much from here the part that is less than excuse me um less than certain is that in our other two buildings kindergarten enrollment tends to um explode as we get very close to school and Newton is already looking high so there is potential that we actually may need a third section of kindergarten at Newton so we'll keep going but I don't think we'll have a firm number for kindergarten at um Newton and potentially Federal until unfortunately well into the Summer Okay so we're watching right Miss Pat node we're watching but obviously reduce if we reduce a kindergarten in any building certainly and need to increase a kindergarten in
019another building obviously are that would be an opportunity for the staff person to stay with us you know okay and um just one other uh side question in relation to the elevators um do you anticipate that work um starting and being completed over the summer starting for sure that's the plan being completed I can't speak to that um Karen and I met with Mike H dro the facilities director today and he shared that there's you know an 8 to 10 week delay in ordering some of the parts based on what he's aware of right now um so we'll be following up um and getting that process moving along as quickly as possible I do expect some of the work to happen or to start this summer but I'm not sure that I can say it'll
020be finished hope so okay um other questions member Childs none of them are immediately jumping I apologize I've got viral brain fog okay um if there is nothing else that anyone would like to add on this item I will move on okay uh the other item on the agenda today is discussion of a school committee budget calendar uh which was previously talked about at school committee and uh I put together in the materials for today's meeting a number of examples of budget calendars from other school committees um so I hope that folks had a chance to look at that and um I'm going to I'm going to see if I can Master the uh art of sharing my screen which I don't usually do if you can't I can so just let me know okay
021okay okay um you might need to do that it says host disabled aend screen sharing or you could again I made you co-host so that should enable screen sharing for you okay there we go okay so in here there are um budget calendar examples from Andover Arlington barnable Brookline North Reading pey Somerville and Oxbridge uh there are plenty there are other ones I just wanted to get a good handful without being excessive so um it seemed like this was a good number um these are called different things but are generally along the lines of either budget planning calendar or budget development calendar and um they are created differently by different committees I'm sure according to their um respective needs uh so some are kind of a list format like Andover AR lton is kind of
022similar barnable is different because it has um a different kind of set of columns with um a time frame for things to happen where in systems this thing happens where for example as a workshop in the school committee versus an administrative thing what the action is and what the purpose or deliverable is on that which is sort of similar to other ones um I thought Brook line was a great example of alignment between what they budget and finance subcommittee is doing next to the school committee next to other uh entities on the municipal side I'm going through this really quickly because I don't not intending to um take any actions per se today I just wanted people to look at this um this one is North Reading pey is more General U looks like one
023that one I love rather than a date and they similarly lay it out like Barnstable in identifying which um entity is responsible for the thing uh whether it's the state or the school administration or principles and department managers Etc and then what the action is Somerville does it more more of a linear thing I guess and I liked this one the way that it was laid out um in terms of what their bud Finance uh committee is doing because I appreciate that um guidance from another from another committee and uh and then xbridge it looks very much like um like some of the other ones so everybody has this in their materials I'm not going to keep it on my screen I just um I wanted to share that for the public for a minute
024um okay and that should be accessible to people if they go online and look at these um meeting materials if they want to take a look or just go Google searching uh various school committee web pages and see what they have up there um for a budget calendars so um I wanted to just have a a brief discussion about the themes um that are in these um examples and talk about what um what the committee might subcommittee might wish to do or um propose to move forward with creating a similar document for Greenfield so um as far as I could tell I think that there are two main um themes that I could pull out of all every almost every budget calendar that I looked at from all these different School committees so um the
025first one was time frames and the most important time frames are uh of course the ones that occur within the school administration in the school committee uh and they all have similar points in the budget process starting with the school committee developing a budget calendar and adopting it uh which most of these committees seem to do annually and um then items that delineate when Capital Improvement project requests are made when budget instructions and forms are distributed to leadership um like building administrators and department heads and when they're due back and when the uh Administration has conversations or collaborative um reviews with them of those requests and uh I think that that piece would be helpful to have as an an informational item um in a budget calendar because this does it pertains to some of
026the discussions that have come up recently I think with regard to um the funding of music programs in Greenfield because we've had some people come in um for a public comment who don't um understand how the budget is developed for this and um I think it would be helpful and enlightening for people to see when and how um those departmental budgets are um made and put forward to Administration and discussed and and all of that chrisye oh thank you um I would like to um I guess just share a few points is one um I believe that everybody on this committee is aware that we work backwards from the city's budget calendar we get the city's budget calendar which identifies the dates that the mayor is due the budget from the school committee and then
027and we work backwards to the with the um public hearing requirements and then we work backwards to the date that um ads need to be placed in the newspaper based on the newspapers timelines so all of that really flows backwards only after we get the budget calendar from The City the second piece I guess is a it's an administrative um element and I understands Kate your concern about um people don't understand how the budget is created um I guess I'd like to share I've identified that process multiple times every year that I've done the budget um but I would strongly request that the committee not identify specific dates for administrative tasks the date by which the superintendent presents her budget to the school committee is certainly something that's committee level but superintendent meetings with department
028heads um I think a range of General times so that people see the sequence is great but for the committee to dictate when the superintendent schedules meetings I think is I think that those meetings are an administrative task I think um I could be wrong and I haven't interviewed any other uh of these committees that created the their calendars um but I would I would Hazard a guess and I would be happy to go do some footwork and ask people of this um that the dates that they put in were not set by the committee probably those dates were set by their administrators who told the committee when they were doing things um so potenti I think if that's your understanding and that's the intent is to somewhat work backwards given information presented by the
029superintendent I think that is that's great um but I guess I would wonder if the committee chooses to go with that detailed of a calendar if that can be clearly outlined when the budget calendar is is discussed um because because your intent or the current committee's intent may not be made clear to Future committees um and if the process were you know you're not always going to be here Ken and Andy won't always be here and what your right just just a thought right um that calls to mind uh one of the um one of the examples that's in the materials um in which um I don't remember which one it was but uh the committee sets not just a calendar but also budget guidelines um at the same time and that seems like an
030important guideline that would naturally go with the calendar um Okay can if you don't mind me sharing a a very positive thing I think from Greenfield perspective and I'm I'm not sure how you would work this into the process around setting budget guidelines um maybe Andy's had experience with this but other districts where I have worked or that I'm aware of um the finance board big picture um at times dictates downward to the committee like you need to bring us a budget with x% or you need to bring us level service or level funding they sort of put that guideline out on the front end um and it's been a wonderful I think a wonderful um statement that the school committee and even City Council in Greenfield does not do that you as the committee
031has has made it quite clear in three years give us the budget that represents our needs um so is that the L I mean Andy you speak to that so I guess Kate my question to you is when you say budget guidelines what sort of what Vision did you have about what that could look like I don't have one I I am not proposing a specific set of guidelines or a specific type of calendar or anything because I don't think it's up to me it's a this is supposed to be a committee thing so I guess didn't know if in your research you had come across any budget guidelines that were things that you wanted to put out there or no I think that would be a couple steps down the road I am strictly
032at the calendar level at the moment okay all right that's fair I do want it on the record though also a fantastic thing for Greenfield that you've asked for a budget that represents the needs okay um where was I I apologize it's okay um I so I noticed that most of these um calendars get adopted sometime between August and November um the ones that seem to be voted on annually by their committee uh which probably makes more sense as to why they have dates on them because that's a lot closer to when um the items on their calendars are going to happen so there's probably more um information available at that point in the year as to when things will occur um the meat of the budget time frames um of course tends to occur
033between December and whenever there particular uh school department needs to have a final budget proposal which is quite variable and I would also point out that um these examples cover all different kinds of um governmental setups on the local level so um some of them have a select board some have a town meeting Etc um which we do not so uh but but we all are pretty familiar I think with the general progression during that part of the season um with the development of preliminary budget and posting and a public hearing and a committee vote and all of that um some of these calendars spell out a little bit more clearly when or how um the public may have input during that season uh which I think might also be helpful for people and that
034is it for the First theme and the other theme um that I noticed is um among the calendars that I thought were the most helpful was alignment between city state Administration and committee actions so that people can see when all these moving parts are moving and how they uh how they align with each other uh so that they can get a a bigger picture understanding of how budget development Works um so for my part that is one thing that I would like to see um in ours I don't know if this information is helpful or irrelevant but Kate when you talked about when most of the Committees were voting on the budget timeline our memo about the fy2 budget schedule was sent from the mayor's office on October 2nd so I think that is generally
035the timeline where we get our budget timeline from the city right if that's help that makes sense um member child did you have uh any comments ideas suggestions things that um you would like to point out or um mostly just uh from looking at all of the ones you've put together just the things that I think are most valuable um because I I definitely see the superintendent's concerns about the rigid deadlines being microman Agy and you can end up following the letter and not the spirit of the idea but uh so from the packet of materials you put together the last one the Westwood Public Schools the way they've got it highlighted different colors for deliverable versus presentation I I think even if we have just a barebones deliverable presentation calendar that would be very
036helpful to the public at large because all the information it exists it just isn't in that one centralized spot right yes it's in disperate places and it's it's hard for people I think to quickly get a comprehensive view of how this works um yeah okay now that calendar of course is a little bit too nitty-gritty with here the exact deadlines for what we're looking for but right but it is an element from that one in particular that I really would like us to use even if we just have an informal document in one spot um can you clarify exactly what you want or what you're hoping to see well I'm hoping that we could have one document that we could point the public to to say okay here is where we are in the budget
037timeline right now and here is when you will be getting your information on it okay like highlighting those presentations in particular because everyone knows the presentations happen but I mean communication is such a big problem in Greenfield there's not one source that everyone will go to to get their news and yeah an add in quarter isn't what it used to be well that's true um that also calls to mind what um Christine had just said about the fact that she has presented information uh innumerable times about um how um the budget process works and what have you but I think the the fact remains that most people don't tune into meetings such as school committee meetings and they're they don't hear that and don't um probably have a lot of time to go watching meetings
038on playback on YouTube um and things like that so uh I think the the goal is to have some sheet basically yes um document that we can put on the website that people can just look at at a glance um and though on the note of comprehensive I would worry about getting too far in the weeds because we want something that is very easily digestible so that we can just prevent uh Christine and then Karen and then whoever is there a few years from now or whatever from having to field the ex exact same question over and over and over again yeah I was thinking that it should be no more than two pages does that sound like a reasonable ballpark can you remind I'm sorry I had a building situation I had to answer
039a question about we talking about the budget calendar being two pages yes but I would say we could I I wouldn't want us to go two pages I think if we can't do it in one page then we're including too much information okay um Christine just said catch you up for a second we were talking about um we were talking about what you had said or I was talking about what you had said before about um the fact that you do present information about budget development at committee meeting um but our I think our reality that we always encounter is that most people don't watch school committee meetings or city meetings and don't tune in to watch the recap or what have you and and um I don't for my part I think we as
040school committee members were elected to do this stuff and I don't really expect people to devote tons of times to doing that um and the the the goal of having a budget calendar would be so that people have something that they can look at in a concise way and see um at a glance uh that we can post on the website so yeah so your general goal if I can just make sure I'm um your general goal at the budget calendar is to provide a quick FAQ for public so that they can look at it and go oh yeah this is about the point in the budget timeline yes an an item that people can look at quickly on their own time when they have time and see when th different important things are happening
041in the development of the FY next budget um and I think I would like to highlight for people the points at which they can most effectively have input about that um I think we've heard a fair amount of confusion from people about that um and if we had it pointed out on our calendar then they would know when to come in and speak to us or send email or what have you so that they can feel heard are there any other um priorities that um you think should be attended [Music] to um in a budget calendar I don't know if this is for our budget calendar but I think a point that does bear talking about at some point as we get into the next budget cycle maybe is um roles the role of the
042superintendent budget development the role of the school committee and the role of the city council I think um it's it's very challenging for people who don't deal with budgets daytoday which most lucky people don't have to do that to recognize that or to to understand that the city the ways and means and city council don't have line item decision making for the school budget um they can make recommendations for the committee to consider but that they don't dictate the spending plan of the school committee and I think that's hard you know they can ask obviously we present pretty micro level line item information and they can ask questions about that but just sort of how the how the decision- making flows up and down might be helpful as um we get into next year's budget
043cycle that sounds like another excellent item for Budget guidelines okay any like the idea of a double-sided page you know one side is the calendar the other side is those guidelines just crib sheet right right I think probably the two things that I get the most um confusion about from members of the public are really about those two things how they can have in put and be heard about things and what and role confusion about uh about school committee so it would be very helpful if there was something very concise in handy that people could look at and understand that better um and that's particularly important when it comes to the budget any other suggestions things that are important to tends to in this okay okay um so my um intention is to come back
044to this uh with uh potent with a I don't even want to call it a draft I'll call it a uh preliminary draft how about that uh because we're we're hatching something new here in Greenfield a lot many other school committees obviously have such an a document but we have not had one so uh it I think will require a lot of thought and I don't expect that we'll be ready to present um something to the full committee to potentially adopt for a few months because um we'll need to have more discussion about this all right um any other last questions comments anything okay uh with that I will move to adjourn I'll second that okay and I am a yes member Childs yes we are adjourned at 3:54 p.m. [Music]