In-Person Special Meeting Mon 3/16/2026

001woman and uml call to order for the inerson special meeting of the board of education. Today's Monday, March 16th, and it is 6:35 p.m. We are at city ball room 305 attendance. Real quick, I'm Jennifer Pres. We have Albert Ben Hollis, Robert Chber, Jose. We have Lamont Daniels and Marissa Esmeir Jimenez. And um today's tonight's meeting is a presentation from Shipment and Goodman. Uh uh board of education service laws and sites and practical tips. My glasses are too >> Smith. >> Yes. Jessica Smith. Yeah. >> Good evening everybody. It's nice to meet all of you. See some of you who I've met before. Um I appreciate the opportunity to be here. Obviously I'm new here. Um, thank you for uh selecting us as your council tonight. Um, I thought we could use as an opportunity

002uh for the presentation to talk about what I know you've heard about before, but also to go through some scenarios so we can discuss the practical application of some of the things that I'm sure you've heard many times before. And I'd also love to just get to know you, hear your questions. You can certainly ask me questions um as we go through this is should be fairly interactive and informal. It's really a chance for you to get to understand some of the things that I'm going to share tonight. So on the agenda is uh first of all we'll talk about the board's roles and responsibilities, the superintendent's roles and responsibilities and how those two things interact, how they're similar, how they're different. Um, we'll then talk about the Freedom of Information Act, which as I'm

003sure you all know is the law that governs how you operate. Um, it also governs the um, principles under which all of your records are public. So, um, I'll give you some tips on that. And finally, if we have time, we'll talk about communication and information sharing. I have a lot of scenarios in here, and I really want to focus on those because they're frankly more interesting. Um, I've written these scenarios. Some of them were adapted from experiences I've had with other boards. And I'd love to hear from all of you as to how you might approach them. So, I'm going to start with since I know that you've all heard this many times before, I'm going to start with a question, which is um before you look at my slides, what is your perspective

004on the role of the board of education versus the next question will be the role of the superintendent and the administration. So what are some of the the board's primary roles or functions >> as a board member and be elected for the community? I always say I work for the community because they let they trust me. So it doesn't mean I work for them. It's for the best for the future present and future for our kids the support for our staff because without the staff the kids they don't have education but the most important parents because the parents is don't want to us for the war. >> Yeah. We have to um work with them and listen what they want because I know they want they want to visit patient work and it's for the

005kids. >> Absolutely. Leazing with the community being the eyes and ears of the community in the around the board table is very important and different boards do that different ways for sure. >> Mr. Benahan's point, we are agents of the state to carry out the educational will interest of the state which includes hiring the superintendent um evaluating the superintendent contract the budget and the cont contract approvals um a whole host of other things. And to Mr. Benahan's point when we say we're creatures of the state and agents of the state, the state is not the state is not the general assembly. The state is made up for the people of the state of Connecticut. >> Yeah, >> I'm glad you said that. That's exactly right. The boards of education in Connecticut are agents of the

006state of Connecticut. They're not agents of the city of Bridge Bridgeport, for example. And your primary obligation is to implement the educational interests of the state. So beyond what you said, what are the educational interests of the state? Where can you find them? obviously sin if it decided by an awesome >> both of you are right you said the statutes you said the policies and that's I like that combined answer because the policies really should come from the statutes the interests of the state really are in the state statutes and then you all are required to have policies that carry out the state statutes and don't contravene them. Um we'll talk a little bit later about whether it's wise to go beyond the requirements of the state statutes. Um but that's I'll put that aside

007for a minute. So implement the educational interest of the state. >> I I just would add that there is some constitutional element to that too has come up periodically in our state obligation to our children given the fact that we're a city. >> Yes. that has been traditionally underfunded. Yes, >> that has come up historically in our state, >> right? In terms of state funding and you know opportunities that are provided through funding at the state level. >> Yes. >> Yeah. No, it's it's it's a good point. >> Statute and the policies haven't kept up with the constitutional obligations necessarily and it's a constant struggle, >> right? because it might be difficult for you to actually implement some of those requirements, those state mandates. >> Um, what about student discipline? What role does the board

008play if any in student discipline matters? >> Policy. >> Okay, >> besides that, >> setting policy. Um this delegate is this the authority we delegate back to the superintendent expulsion hearings. >> Do you appoint a hearing officer for expulsion hearings? >> We do this. >> Yes. Okay. So a hearing officer um which a lot of boards do and that's helpful because a lot of boards don't want to actually interact with students and families who are subject to expulsion. Do you do the same with um residency and transportation hearings? Have you ever encountered a situation where a student is complaining about their transportation um options and they challenge that? >> Most mostly that would come through the control transfer policy and there'll be issues with that and it's also delegated unless superintendent I believe >> the

009hearing. So, >> but it's gone back. So, one of the roles of of boards is if a student doesn't actually reside in Bridgeport, they reside in another city or in another town, but they're going to school in Bridgeport, they would have the right, you would say you can't attend school free in Bridgeport, they would have the right to appeal that and that would come before the board or unless you delegated it to a hearing officer. Same thing if a student is challenging their transportation um opportunities, they could uh appeal that to the board. it could be delegated to the hearing officer. Um, so the reason I'm saying this is that the board has what I call a quasi judicial function. Sometimes you actually serve as judge unless you delegate that role. There is one um

010judge-like role that you cannot delegate. Does anybody know what that is? >> Labor relations. >> So that's actually um not a judge-like role. That's a different thing. And the reason that's important to highlight that difference is because labor relations doesn't involve due process. So there so what I mean by that is the one thing you can't delegate is if you are going to terminate a teacher or an administrator. And the reason I mention that is you may want to know what's going on. I heard something's happening with this teacher. Dr. Avery, tell us what's going on. Can he tell you? >> No. Why can't he tell you? >> Because uh it's personal individuals. No. >> No. Because well, there's two. One, we're respecting the grievance process. >> And ultimately, under the law, we have we

011have to find it safe. That's what's being debated with in the legislature right now is whether or not they're going to eliminate due process. But and allow due process because due process doesn't exist because the board that has the final say that is terminated. >> We need to maintain impartiality in the hearing process and the only thing we allowed to use in that process is what they present to us at that hearing. >> But I don't know how that's not giving us judicial power. >> So that's right. So what happens is there's actually when it comes to teachers and administrators and only teachers and administrators this isn't true for other types of employees like para educators or custodians etc. Teachers and administrators have the right to a hearing before the board. They can choose an

012impartial hearing officer to make findings of fact fact and recommendations, but ultimately those findings and fact and recommendations would go to the board and the board would get to decide whether to adopt them or not. And that's what's now under debate in the in the state legislature. they're trying to take away that authority of the board to have um a say in what happens to teachers and administrators in their districts which I think would be unhelpful right so the reason you can't get involved unless and until you are sitting as a judge is there is teachers and administrators and any employee have a constitutional federal constitutional due process right to be heard just like a judge sitting in a court can't get involved involved in the underlying investigation before they s judge. You can't get

013involved in knowing anything about what's going on with that teacher and administrator unless and until there's a separation, a resignation, or it comes before you in a hearing. And I I always like to point that out in these meetings because boards are often um wondering what this is such an important thing. Maybe it's in the news. Maybe your community is talking about it. And they might ask you about it. They might say, "How could you not know about this? You're a board member." And what you're going to say is, "I can't know about it because I'm like a judge. And if this eventually comes to me, I will be conflicted out. I can't even participate in that hearing if I know too much right now. It is my responsibility to stay impartial and not to

014know anything right now. So sometimes what happens is you'll get a post-mortem, right? So a teacher will separate, they'll resign or maybe there's some sort of an agreement and then you can un you can learn about what happens in an executive session. Um but if a teacher exercises their right to a hearing, you really can't know anything unless until that hearing happens. >> Absolutely. Yeah, I'm agree with you 100% it my colleague too but this is br to put it this way I'm going to be to the point this is br situation happen like that and let's see that that's his job he's the you know he the one take care of the situation and I know parents or teachers start to come after us why this why this you know um um whatever situation

015happened with that you know be suspend fire whatever I know my role is that's not my job I'm not respons want to know what's going on. Contact that berry. That's that's my answer, you know, and I told them right away. I know my colleague do the same thing. I say, listen, we're not involved. That's not our role in that situation. You have to contact Dr. Perry. So, I put I I say this to the staff or the parents so they can know. I don't want to think, oh, you don't know what's going on. Say, yeah, we know that's not our job, you know, to discuss because that's why, you know, they got new union, whatever lawyer, whatever happened, we don't want to be part of that. So I would like to calm down a little

016bit sometime parents or some staff because they like to find out what's going on. What's going on? What's going on? And I don't I don't like to ignore nobody, right? >> But I just give you that simple answer and trust me. >> That's a good answer. I I think different things are helpful for different people. That's not my job is a perfectly good answer until it is if it comes to any decision. >> Right. Right. So I think that's that's helpful. Um, and I understand that community members will come to you. So, a lot of the purpose of this is to help you understand or at least develop some language that you can use with your community to help them understand, no, that's not my job. You go to this person, this person, here's the

017chain of command. Here's who you can get that answer from. Um, so those are your um those are your main you hit the main ones. Um, setting policy. I think you mentioned setting policy, budget, policy. Those are the big ones. So, let's talk about policy for um I know you all are going through your bylaws right now and my understanding is that there are a lot of policies and a lot of bylaws and a lot of regulations um that you're that you're working through. Does anybody know what the difference is between policies and regulations? policy sets the same for the superintendent then the regulations. >> Yes. And so who passes the policies? >> We pass the policies and the superintendent develops the regulations to enforce those policies. >> Yes. And and to implement them to

018figure out how do we do something? Um where do the policies come from? >> Traditionally they come from the superintendent but they can come from board members as well. >> Even Yes. So even before that they come there are certain policies that are required I'm sorry >> state there are certain policies that are required by law actually many policies that are required by law the statutes actually say the board must have policies on the following things and guess what the legislature keeps adding to that >> list >> every year cell phones may be coming up the late they're I was going to say the latest one Now, I'm thinking there's an even later one. So, you may know that the school climate policy has changed, I think, 11 times since 2000. And every time that

019changes, you have to modify your policy. You now have a required policy. I mean, this is a new one. The state actually wrote your policy for you. That's, I think, the only situation where the state wrote the school Connecticut school climate policy. So, you have to just take that and and adopt it and implement it. Um I I don't know if you heard, but um early admission to kindergarten was is being phased out, right? So if you want to continue it for the upcoming school year, that waiver process, the board has to adopt a policy in order to do that. So every year we're learning about new requirements around policies. So um Shipment and Goodwin, you may or may not know, has we have a model policy service. I know cave has a model policy

020service. We're the two big ones. Um our theory of policies is to have what is required and not much more. Why is that our theory? Has any has anybody um explored different theories of policies? Why would it why would it be important to have policies that are required and not go too far beyond that? >> You haven't liability. >> Exactly. Exactly. If you expand the scope of your responsibility, I'm going to give a ridiculous example. If you say the Bridgeport, this this should be everybody, every school district school, but if you say the Bridgeport Board of Ed Bridgeport public schools shall be the um best school district in the state of Connecticut, right? Go implement that, Dr. Avery. Guess what? >> No, no school district can achieve that goal consistently, right? You're failing. you're setting

021yourself up to fail. What does that mean legally without going down the rabbit hole? What that means is if somebody were to sue you and they found that you violated your own policy, all of a sudden that's negligence. That is a legal cause of action. So that's a silly example. But a better example is if you take the school climate policy which talks about bullying and now it's called challenging behavior. If you say, you know what, we want to do better than that. We want we we want to require that um challenging behavior forms be filled out every time that there is a kurfuffle in the classroom, no matter what. No discretion. Is that going to happen? Is that even possible? That's not even possible. Maybe it's possible in one of your classrooms, in one

022of your schools, but if you think about and and this is why working with the administration to understand the impact of what it is you may be doing with your policies is so important because they will tell you we can't implement that and if they can't implement it, you're setting yourself up for what might be a successful lawsuit. It's hard enough and you can feel free to disagree with me to implement the policies that are required by the state. You know, I work with a lot of boards and it's a constant struggle to there are unfunded mandates all over. It's a constant struggle to do even what they want you what they're requiring you to do. So, my advice has always been to just stick you have to implement what's required, right? You got to

023get those on the books. our policies stick as much as possible to the letter of the law and um you know for example we just who's familiar with the new library policies have you heard of those? Yeah. So there's new policies that I don't want to overwhelm you but there just last year the state legislature passed a series of policies about challenges to library materials. you implemented that last year. We rein our policy based on that. Maybe that's where you see I'm sure Kate has a model policy. Um, so regulations, we'll shift for a minute to regulations. Oh, and and one other thing I wanted to say. Sometimes it's advisable to have a policy that's not required by law to set expect set expectations for staff like for example a code of ethics for staff

024and to make sure that you're dealing with people consistently students staff members community members because inconsistency is another legal problem. So those are the two big areas where policies are recommended. Regulations you said you said are one of you said um regulations are to implement the policies right to carry out the policies. They are not to change the policies. They are not to um come up with a different way of looking at things. They really are policies can be long. They can be short and they are they spell out how the administration is going to implement policies particularly those that are very general in nature. Um so I'm going to pause there to see if there's any questions about policies and administrations can be administratively adopted and changed. Um and the reason why that's important

025is that they're more flexible. So if some change needs to be made in terms of implementing a policy, the administration can administratively change them without going through the board process. Now if you see that a regulation is inconsistent with your policy, right, you have the right to say to the administration, hey, wait a minute, this is not what our policy says. You always have that right, but otherwise regulations are really supposed to be carrying out the policy. And and in that case, if we see a regulation that's in contra against our policies, we have the right as the board to instruct the superintendent. Should the superintendent not be am I the common sense, not the superintendent, but it has happened in the past, but superintendent has gotten bullheaded over procedure that was not being followed.

026Honestly, say, "Oh, that's a procedure. That's my name. But we've got the right to instruct the superintendent notice. You've got to follow the policy. I see that you're trying to incorrect and it will take a vote of five or five of that makes such a direction and direction to change their procedure to revoke the policy. >> Yes. Yes. Um, the key is, and I don't have your policies in front of me, but they're bylaws because there are bylaws that speak to how administrative regulations and policies are adopted and changed. So, you'll want to follow those bylaws. You want to make sure that those bylaws are in good working order. And you'll also want to make sure that the bylaws don't conflict with each other because your bylaws or are how you run yourselves. understand it's

027important that you're all looking at the same thing and that one person isn't saying hey there's this bylaw another person says wait but this bylaw says this so that is is a should be a priority because otherwise you're going to confuse yourselves and then it's hard to do what you just described if you have two different bylaws dictating two different processes for that process the Your bylaws are your rules, your own internal rules. Um, now I think Cave, does Cave have model bylaws? We have model bylaws. >> So, we're currently using the model by C. They're not implemented here, but we're using that to update our model our our bylaws to kind of model. >> Yeah. Sometimes if it's easier, one strategy that some boards use if they have a lot of legacy policies or

028bylaws is that they just repeal a whole series in one motion and then they replace it with the model set. That's that's one strategy >> step by step. >> Yeah, different boards do it differently. >> Um, so why don't we go to a scenario just for fun? I don't know if I can flip to it on here the presentation. >> Okay, you got to write me now. >> I've just been ad living but >> scenario >> um well we can you can start reading it. It's scenario one slide eight while we're waiting for it to come up. Yesterday, the local paper published a front page story about a teacher employed by the district who was arrested for drunk driving. The article identifies by the teacher by name and school. >> Is it on? >> Ah,

029perfect. Thank you. >> You need a coffee? There's two different I got you. There's not one there. Hold up. >> Parents come to the next board meeting and during public comment, several of them address the board to express concern that this teacher must be fired immediately. A fourth parent who comes up to speak attacks the board for sitting there silently like bumps on a log and asks the board members what they're going to do about this bad teacher. So, has this happened before? >> Do you have a lot of public comment? >> Yeah. >> So, there's an area. >> They're coming up and they're really concerned and they're going one after another is telling you got to fire this teacher. What can you say? >> Be quiet. We just listen to them. And then after

030that that ring staff it will take care of that situation you know and when we in the board we listen to them that's >> you're good you're good you you know what to do >> if she says we don't comment >> good and just so you know it's there are many reasons not to comment but one of them which you may not know is foyer the freedom of information act because if you start to engage in a dialogue off the agenda you violated FOYA And you can tell your community members, they might have wanted to come out and hear you talk about, you know, that school over there that somebody needed public comment, but they didn't know that that was going to be discussed. So FOY is a big reason why it's important not to

031get into that kind of discussion. Um, can a board member either in the meeting or outside the meeting say, "Don't worry about it. We're going to we're going to get rid of the teacher." >> No. >> Yeah. We talked about due process. That would be um >> yes, >> that would have be an issue quite literally for federal court because that teacher's due process rights would have been compromised. And you know, we've already been through this. Dr. Avery can't tell you anything about the situation. Um let's try this one. You run into an acquaintance at the grocery store and she complains that her son, who is in ninth grade, has been bullied mercilessly in school. The parent reports that her son has also been the victim of discriminatory taunts about his disability, which usually happen

032during swim practice, which is especially concerning to you as your son is also on the swim team. She is concerned that nobody is doing anything to stop this. Of course, you want to help her, so you review the board's policies and identify a couple that may apply here. You email other board members and share what you have learned, asking for their feedback on what to do next. So, what do you think about this? Let's start with with the first question. Was it a good in hindsight, was it a good idea to email the board about this? >> Why not? >> Foya. >> Okay. Foya is one issue because anytime you email the board, unless it's exempt, for example, if it's a journey by privileged, it's a public document. This one might be further protected. But

033wh why else is it not a good idea to email the board about this? >> Well, if we weren't contract if we weren't um giving the superintendent the authority to hear the expulsion here expulsion as well. >> Okay. Yeah. That might compromise the due process of of the student who is the bully. In my case, I have that and I got parents that come to talk to me about bullying stuff like that. And like I said, I don't like to ignore my parents. That's what I'm here for. Just depending situation, maybe I can speak with the parent and try to, you know, to talk to figure it out. If the situation is not my role, I would let them know that every doctor have cabinet and they have um um staff they charge for each

034school. So he would let them know who's in charge of that school and then they find out, you know, what's going on in the school. Yeah. It just depend the situation very same go I know I clean guys I think that's it I would wait but it just depend how far because I don't want to go involve and have the issue you know problem that more than the time that they have a cabinet they really send the person in the school to figure out if it's the problem >> yeah it's exactly it's the whole idea of chain of command your role can be to direct people to the appropriate place because some parents may have no idea how to even approach this they may not know that they should email, you know, the school guidance

035counselor or the principal or the assistant principal. And so your role is to to know what the chain of command is and to help them out. I appreciate that sometimes you want to try to fix it. The things that I would be concerned about is what about the next error? You know, if the inconsistency, right? If the next Emily says, "Well, wait a minute. You fixed it for them. Why can't you fix it for me?" then I think it might be harder to go with the that's not my role but here's the chain of command. Um >> I always like to have the parent have a smile trying to be sure they don't get stressed and like you say I agree with you and that really happened to me and I said okay let me

036figure it out let me call you somebody that will help you. >> Yes >> you know that's the way I stop I say and then I told Dr. Can you please call this parent? I give the information. I can email the phone number and into the job. So I want the parent later. Then the parent call me. Thank you. They fit. They called me. They ignore me. So I'm trying to figure out. >> Oh, that's perfect. That's perfect. And I like what you said about you should all I I do recommend if a parent comes to you like this, let them know who to call, but you can also give Dr. Avery a heads up. >> Oh yes. >> Not the principles, you know, that's not um really your role. Your role should really be

037to talk to your one employee who is Dr. Avery. Dr. Avery, I just ran into somebody. Just FYI, you know, be on the lookout for this because sometimes, and this is actually another issue, what if you run into this parent, you now know as a board member that this student is being bullied mercilessly. You say, "Go talk to the principal." And they never did for whatever reason. Then what? Have you done your job? I mean so sorry because I told you because they happened to me I thought so do you speak with the teacher I want to go >> yes >> okay do you the do you want if you feel the teacher not help you do you speak with the principal if you don't feel the principal is not the way you know they

038help you on the way and then you go to this office >> that that's perfect the chain of information >> yeah the steps >> that's absolutely right the reason why I suggest that you also call Dr. bravery is that if that parent for whatever reason doesn't go through that chain of command any part of it and that stu harm comes to that student I wouldn't want you that to be on you because sometimes I think parents misunderstand what your role is as board members and they might think oh I told a board member I'm good they're going to take care of it so you may say I'm not that's not my role and they may not hear it so a best practice is always to let Dr. right now. >> I think would it also

039be advisable not to say, "Hey, we're going to handle this." Rather than say, "I'm going to take just I'm the superintendent." I think when you say, "I'm going to handle this," it implies that you're going to personally take care of the situation, >> right? I would not advise saying, "I'm going to handle it." I think what you described is perfect. Here's the appropriate chain of command. Did you talk to the teacher? If not, you should. If the teacher doesn't do anything, then go to that this person and then this person. You don't even have to tell. In fact, I wouldn't tell the parent that you're going to call Dr. Avery because then again, they might assume that you'll be handling it. I would just do that. I would, you know, again, I wouldn't tell them

040you're going to do that. Just do it. my model that I've done for the last two years since I've been a board member. I take information, I listen, and I let them know the best way of academics. I give them all the board members email including Dr. Avery. I don't know if you guys saw these big ones that have been coming out the last couple years, but I tell them you send it to all the board members and Dr. Avery. And now you activate me as a board member to call Dr. Avery and I can say, "Hey, listen. I saw an email. Did you see it?" That way I know that that parent or that individual or that leader sent the information to the full board made to aware of it and now it's out

041of right hand because I tell them the best advocacy that I can be is I will not take away my vote from your child from you or anybody when there's something that come before the board because my advocacy is my best thing is sitting on this board and having my vote stand. If I know too much information I got to step down. So I tell them, send that whole email to the whole board and the superintendent and then I can ask my superintendent, hey listen, this came out to our attention. Did you see it? And then give that highlight to them. That way they're in clear communication with the people that they need to meet and it's just it's his office and him. >> Yeah. I So I think that works well for certain issues

042that the board might be considering. Um particularly matters of policy or practice. I think when it comes to parents talking about their individual child, I don't Would you do that for that kind of situation or would you handle that different? >> Oh, no. I would always say that. That's my my my model thing is always saying the same thing is send the board their information put in the superintendent. That way they will take care of it and they go about it their way because it has nothing to do with us as a board member, right? >> I mean, I'm I'm a huge community person. So, I have a whole church. I have the whole church based community. So many things come my way, you know, >> within the board or out of the board and

043I just send it to >> right to them. >> So that's that is one way to handle it. And another way that's perfectly appropriate is the way we've been talking about when it comes to an individual child, right? There are some issues that are that affect the school district more holistically. Um, you know, and the parent may or may not feel comfortable emailing the whole board. The way this scenario is set up is it's the board member has the acquaintance. They run into them. They say, "Oh, I know you, so I'm going to tell you about this." If you say, "Email the whole board and the superintendent." They may or may not do it. Um, you could say that. You could also say, "And here is who you can talk to." And then you can

044also pick up the phone and call Dr. Avery. These are just different approaches. Sometime just depend the how is the the situation of bullying because they happen to me and sometime when I see the school even if it did nothing as if the the stress or that parents I call Dr. I said Dr. this is 911 something's very you know maybe things happen to the boarding because just depend the situation and he take care right away because when I told him listen this is very bad the parent is out of control so you know it's just something just just depend yeah for sure um so when um just getting back to emailing the full board okay another issue with that is you can have an illegal legal meeting by email. So if you email the

045full board, not only is it subject to foyer, that email, but if some if even one person responds, you've all you've had an illegal meeting. So that's another reason why I'm sure you all know you shouldn't be engaging in email dialogues back and forth. Now, what about following up? So you run into this acquaintance, you have your strategy, you have your strategy. Do you put it on your to-do list? Oh, let me call Dr. Avery in two weeks to see what happened with with my acquaintance and their student. >> I don't need to call him because I know he will fix it. So, I'll be I'll be okay. Trust me, I'll be okay because I know why because that parent called me. It tell me u Mr. Ben, thank you. The main office for the

046main office and then I very appreciate I know his lead and his team did his job. So, I'll be okay with that. >> Yeah, I I'll hand it a little differently. Um, I never follow up. I ask the parent if you don't receive satisfaction, let me know. Just then I know >> Yeah. >> if I should follow. >> Both are correct answers. Um, you really shouldn't be involved at all. Um, as I said before, you have one employee and that's the superintendent. and you evaluate your superintendent. Things will bubble up and you have to trust that your administration is doing what it's supposed to be doing. And if they're not, that will come to you. You'll have to deal with that in other ways. But you all are elected officials who are volunteers. I'm sure

047you all have very busy lives. You're not paid for this job. this is um your you know I I really so respect and admire your public service and it's almost a good thing that you don't have to worry about the day-to-day operations of the district whether a student situation is being handled correctly whether employee situation is being handled correctly on a day-to-day basis you know as a um supervisory board generally speaking yes but on a day-to-day basis you have a lot of other things to worry about. That's not something that you need to deal with operationally, nor would you have the time. >> I've got I've got a question that's somewhat related. Um came across a situation where I felt like I had to go beyond and make a report to DCF. Are we considered

048mandate reporters as well members? >> I would say um >> because I heard it on the side of well I heard it on the side of the kid. I was reporting it anyway. But >> yeah, >> it's actually good question. I don't know the technical legal answer to that, but I would I mean you can refer to DCF. I can look into that, but I would if there's a an issue, but but also more training if that's something you follow up with training. >> Yeah, I Yeah, let me let me find out. I don't think board members wire >> because you're hearing information secondhand or third hand and not necessarily dealing with it, right? And so my staff, they're they're they're man mandated reporters. And so if the teachers involved, principal involved and they know

049about it, they report it. And in that instance, you know, you did too, but we also did and it cleared everything up, >> right? >> Yeah. And as you know, I did not follow up follow up. I did not follow up on it at all. I made I made the report and he just left everything alone. Um just just the reason I'm asking is because if you're considered a mandated reporter and it comes across to you as a mandated reporter, you're not supposed to rely on somebody else to report it. You something comes to your attention, you got to report it. Even if a staff member reports it to their supervisor, they're not in compliance with the law because they're supposed to report it then tell the superintendent. >> That's just >> it's a good

050question and I'll follow up. I think it just doesn't come up that often because information doesn't usually come to board members first. >> It usually goes through the mandated reporters who are the school employees first and then it may come to you next. >> But what happened is that it report it was reported to us. We did our new deals but also reported to the board member. So he took the initiative to report it to DCF >> which we were but he also reported it to me which I we had already did our business >> but he took it a different step because he took what the parent gave him and he reported it. >> Right. >> So that's where that's where it can get really muddy if you put yourself in that situation. >>

051That's where I would call up the superintendent and say did you report this? Right. Right. I I didn't but when it came when it came to me it would came to me as they don't think anything was being done about it. >> So that was an extra layer and I also totally send that as well. All right jump off the subject before one of my slips. I I I was sorry. >> Well, I was going to say I I we'll get your answer, but my guess is that we're not because we're not employees, >> but I expected to be interacting with the kids. >> Um and so it's not part of our job. Um it's not part of our duties. It's something that may happen as it did to you, but it's not we're not

052expected. whereas mandated reporters are expected to be aware of that stuff and run into that stuff and when they do to deal with it properly. Um, so that would be my my guess on that. >> I think you're probably right, but I want to confirm. >> Yeah, by all means. >> Um, it's a good question. >> And the word the word is something to be careful because you can say hello and they can say oh they say they hate you. They they are working like that. They are really spiritual. They they they're like kind of people they have to be careful how you deal with them in the situation. If I don't have an experience, I can be very very very bad. my job is >> that they this happened this situation and I know

053they have a great team that will the way it's supposed to be because as we said we don't pay for this you know we do it voluntary because we love it we enjoy of course we're trying to help that parent because I don't care how bad the parent is I can't I don't want to be involved because you I don't know what's going on background you know something I don't want to get involved because they will look back for the third state you know the news run up beh were very fast for something small. So I will yeah >> he handle that situation. >> No, it's a good question and it's um I'll just get the answer because we could speculate. The other thing is that mandated reporters have immunity from liability for reporting and

054so you want to make sure you're a mandated reporter before you run off and call DCF. I'm just doing a time check because I want to make sure I'm respectful of your time. Okay, we have till 8:30. >> Um Okay. >> All right. So, any I'm sorry, what' you say? >> 8:30. Okay. Um, well, one question we didn't get to is this is more of a conflict of interest question. It's kind of a nuance. So, they're talking about um the parent reports that her son has been the victim of discriminatory taunts, which usually happen during swim practice, and your son is also on the swim team. And it's a bit of a red herring this question. But the last one is should you even be involved in this given your personal connection to the swim

055team. And it it's I we took care of that earlier because you shouldn't be involved in it period. Yeah. >> And that's even more reason. And it's just illustrative. This example is illustrative of you all have connections to the community which is in large part why you are board members. All the more reason to leave this to the administration to handle. because you're going to run into these quote unquote conflicts or at least these difficult positions for you. So, what about um now I'm giving it away, but I don't like the slides. What about individual board members? What authority do you as an individual have? If as a board member, you're elected official. you have any authority or indiv individual authority. >> That's right. Unless Yes. >> Um, everything that I've been taught is we

056don't have no authority unless we're sitting down as a board, as a unit. >> That's exactly right. You are a team. You have to function as a team. When you step away from the board table, you have responsibilities, right? Your responsibilities are to lease with your community to share information to answer questions, but you don't have authority. You can't make decisions. You can't make promises. You don't have constituents per se, um, your own constituents. Um, and so one thing that I've seen board members get into trouble with is when they make promises. Maybe it's not a I promise I'll do that. And I'm not talking about campaign promises. I'm talking about you're speaking to members of your local community and saying, "I'll get that done." You you can't make that promise. And you know, you

057can tell people it's I have one vote and it's up to the board. The board and and by the way, you're going to be on the losing side of the vote sometimes. you're going to be on the winning side of the vote sometimes, which is why it's always important to respect the vote because when it's when you're on the winning side, you're going to want people to respect the vote. Um, and similarly, you'll have to respect the vote when you're on the losing side. So, the reason I mention that is because of this scenario three. Um, the board is convened in a public meeting and the topic of discussion is a bell-to-bell cell phone ban. You feel strongly that a ban is a bad idea for a number of reasons ranging from safety to cost.

058You have pled your friends and neighbors before the meeting and based on the results of that poll, you have concluded that most Bridgecore parents want their children to carry their cell phone around at all times. Although you share your views passionately at the board table, the board votes 63 to support the ban. You are outraged and you have let your constituents down. The next day, you and the other board members who voted with you published a co-authored opinion piece on your respective public Facebook pages, explaining why both of you wholeheartedly disagree with the majority vote and encouraging like-minded members of the public to start a petition to overturn the ban. This issue, after all, is a matter of safety and majority rule beard. Five board members who voted with the majority published a joint response

059to your piece on their public Facebook pages. Another board member writes the same comment on all the posts. I am formally calling for the center of all board members who are using Facebook to have an illegal board meeting. Please like this post if you're with me. >> Did anybody do anything wrong here? >> Matter of mag order of magnitude. >> So what's what's wrong here? Who did what wrong? Who did what right? The minority voices should have theoretically respected the vote. I've done the first one, but it has not been in violation of any laws or rules. But >> in his opinion, >> no, no, even the violence. I mean, >> yeah, >> we have first amendment protections for minority voice to speak their work, speak their truth, and then you got the five board

060members who spoke their truth jointly and got together and discussed the issue of under board contention, which is a release. It may have been all right if one of those five board members was the board chair and came out with a statement affirming what the board did. The board voted this way because the board is the spokesman of the board. >> And on your comment in here in the scenario, the only one I think violated and had a basically the meeting in a sense illegal meeting was the five because they were they were the majority and they form a quorum. those five forms of quality and that's an issue there. Um, >> right. So, minority voice, they deserve to be heard. Where where can everybody be heard about these issues >> theoretically at a board

061meeting? >> Well, more than public comment, when you all sit around the table, your obligation is to debate things vigorously. I call a question. >> Um well, right. So that you mean ending debate. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> But it it's healthy, you know, within reason. You may not want to go around and around for four hours, but it's healthy to hear from each other and to debate because you may all come in with one thought. But the whole point by the way of the Freedom of Information Act and debating in public and holding meetings in public is so that because the board is a deliberate deliberative body and the public has the right to hear you all engage with each other and to see how you may all change your minds depending on what

062other people are saying. So you may come in with one view and you may be swayed by other views. You may not be swayed by other views, but you can certainly speak your piece and anybody who's tuned in will hear you speak your piece. But then when the board votes, everybody, and this is not a law, this is not FOIA. This is just board good board hygiene, good board teamwork. every when the vote is done, everybody should respect that as long as everybody feels they had an opportunity to say their piece and be heard. So debate all you want around the board table, be respectfully to each other, listen to each other, and if people feel if you want to communicate with people who um feel strongly about an issue, tell them to come to

063the board meeting. Tell them to come listen to you speak. Tell them to make public comment. But theoretically, there shouldn't be a need for this after the-act public forum, you know, posting about I don't agree. I said this, I'm going to start a petition. So, that's all good in theory, but tell me how it works in practice. What What happens here? Are there challenges with that? >> Nothing recent. I think I I think that's probably best where we can say right now for the matter of moving forward from where we were because where we were it did become a necessity but because all voices were not heard. >> I mean I was probably one of the biggest ones to go off on social media. But in my view, as long as my voice is heard

064and I'm on the losing side, I might explain my position a little more, but it won't be as Marcus O. I don't know if anybody disagrees with my >> Yeah, I it's it's not productive to reopen old gear. We have been functioning productively for a year and a half. >> Mhm. But there was a time when we did not have those open discussions. >> Let's just leave it at we were having that wholesome discussion at the table. Um so you can't pair the situations. Um and so now we are um everybody has a chance to speak and and the process is working the way you think it should. >> Well, that's great. So, I'm here to affirm that that's the right way to go. I'm so glad that you've moved in that direction. Um, I

065I think the challenge too with even one person saying something, even if it doesn't have a little even if it just has a little oomph, but not a lot of oomph, is that then what if you want to say something? What if you want to say something? It it's it's a matter of fairness in a way. And then all of a sudden, by the way, if a quorum of you starts saying your piece, that could be considered an illegal discussion among board members because you're responding to him and you're responding to him and you're responding to all of a sudden you're up to five and you've got a quorum. So, I won't beat this dead horse, but I will say that um it's my advice to leave it at the board table. Make sure you're

066having that robust debate. Make sure everybody's voices are being heard and maybe make a pledge to each other not to go onto social media after a vote has been taken. >> Have to just We're about to pass this all night. I'm I'm not looking at you, but here recording. >> I think that um say that social media has not been used lately about social media has been used about the issues that we're, you know, fighting about with the state. >> Oh. on the issue of fun they have a funding city about funding. So that's where the social media has come into play meetings. In the past it was used with regard to board meetings that has not been an issue anticipated to be an issue in the near future hopefully. >> Well that's that's good

067news. I mean I can say just depend what's going on the board for education meeting because right now as a colleague said you know we have meetings and people they see what's going on everything social media and just what's going on that's where they you know the situation start years back it was a disaster there was no respect it was not communication it was not nothing at all we trying their best the best and people didn't know we were right they trying to be against us and now outside that was the people they said oh looking for what the force is doing then the people communicate with us it it was fat bad you know I can say it was bad and now people they see the community to see everything was going on not

068only community I'm talking the whole Connecticut the whole Connecticut now they see the change we have you know we're not but they know as my colleague say about funding now >> they know that's our job and that we're going to be fighting on to the end to be sure we funding the way it is >> yeah I think the other piece is that we we started doing a recap of the board meetings like a written recap of what took place at that particular meeting like right after the meeting. So we weren't able to catch the whole meeting. You can get the draft of that recap and you still informed and we didn't do that until about six months to a year ago when we started doing that. So so the community can kind of grab

069that and understand what took place at that particular meeting. >> That's great. Great. Do you record your meetings? >> Yeah, I bet AI could spit that out that summary. True, too. >> It's No, it's a little difficult to live stream. Okay. I didn't use the YouTube for some reason. >> Yeah, because some setting meant to mention >> we have a court recorder. Oh, okay. >> Um, >> yes. Hi. Hi. Thank you. I don't know where this fits, but I was just curious. This is Lammon Daniels. I'm one of the newest members. Can you speak to or share best practices around um you know board members speaking out on on political issues? When is it your first amendment? How do you distinguish the two? Can you speak to that? >> Sure. Sure. So, >> does that

070make sense? >> It does. And tell me if I'm not answering the question, but I'll start here. So I said before that each of you doesn't have any individual authority as an individual board member. Um but the other side of that coin is that you're all people, right? And so when you're not sitting at the board table, you can speak on issues. You can represent yourself. What you cannot do is speak on as a member of the Bridgeport Board of Education or on behalf of the Bridgeport Board of Education. I've heard this one a lot as a member. I mean a total nonsequittor as a member of this board of education. I think this right and so you're automatically signaling in saying that that you are speaking on behalf of the board. You're representing the

071views of the board. You're making promises. So you can speak freely, but you can't speak as a member of or on behalf of the Bridgeport Board of Education. Does that make sense? Yes. So, can you give an example when would be appropriate? Can I we I know we just passed a board resolution and um I voted no, but um members of the board can speak to it. So, just distinguishing the two. >> Um so, can you do do you mind if I ask you to give the example the the the resolution? >> Yes, I they can speak to it there. The resolution was on um the board some legislation up at the capital. >> Okay. So, the board passed a resolution supporting legislation at the capital. I'm going to assume you disagreed um with the

072resolution and you wanted to speak out, Mr. Daniels. Um >> no, no, not me personally. So, no. Right. I get it to your point around if if the the to your point just mentioned while I while I oppose it. Hey, if the vote the vote passed, it passed. So I know just from experience, I'm not going to say anything publicly, but just so given that example, it would can the board members say on behalf of the board to your point or distinguishing first amendment right that as an individual? Does that make sense? >> Um, so there's a resolution and then what would somebody what would a board member want to say? So we made that draft testimony of the bridge boardification >> support system. >> Yes. Okay. So yes, that is a that is fine

073because the resolution and it depends on what the resolution says. But if the board has voted and approved something um I would suggest that the resolution says something like and delegates authority to the chair to draft a statement to the state legislature conveying the Bridgeport Board of Education support of this testimony. That's perfectly appropriate. Is that what you're asking? Yeah, I think I just wanted understanding just how that how that part works. I'm not that familiar with that. >> Yeah. Okay. So, so what I've seen done because it's very difficult to draft something as a board, you know, to draft by committee. The easiest way to do that is you would pass a resolution saying we support this um legislation. We delegate authority to Miss Perez to write a um write testimony on behalf of

074the Bridgeport um Board of Education conveying the following points. We support this legislation because 1, two, three, four. You're not going to sit there and draft it, but you are giving the chairperson authority, which is appropriate, to draft it on milk. And the problem is it it's hard to edit it after that. So if you wanted to review her testimony and provide feedback, it's hard to do that in a way that complies with FOY. You can't do it over email and I'll provide feedback. I suppose she could email it to the board and say, "Call me if you have any real concerns, but you also want to avoid a serial meeting where one of you is calling her and another one of you is calling her and it's conflicting and then she's stuck because she's

075saying, "Well, you told me this and they told me that and they told me that." So, the easiest way to do it is the way I described. >> Yeah. I'm going to describe the pre and post resolution way that I testified. Maybe it'll give you a little give a little more clarity before the resolution passed that we were supporting these bills that have been my testimony would begin. My name is Joseph Scal. I'm the vice chair of the Bridgeport Board of Education. I am testifying on my own behalf and the opinion on my own and then I will launch into the testimony and I would support the wealth tax. And now that the bill is now that the two order right now that the board uh has passed the resolution to support it and I

076will give my testimony and Joseph Scaly vice chair the board of education testify mostly on my own behalf and then when I get to the part with the bill that's why the Bridgeport Board of Education supports. >> Okay. So, I'm glad you gave that example because it depends on whether you have been granted the authority to say that last part. Typically, it would be the chair that's given the authority to speak on behalf of the board. Um, or you could say and and anybody who wants to speak on behalf of the board in their testimony can do so as long as they adhere to the following points. It's up to the board how you want to handle that. But what if >> the >> resolution says the board of ed supports those those >> explicitly?

077>> So to the chair >> the board of ed the point about the chair was and and authorities granting to so and so to testify on behalf of the board. It sounds like you didn't say that. It's just the board of course, right? >> I did I did in the meeting recommend legal to clarify their physical but says explicitly the board of ed supports these bills. One of the examples that it second without doing nothing other than saying what the resolution says >> which you can do and you and so actually that's a great suggestion. You could say hi I'm speaking on my own behalf. Here are my views. Um, and now on behalf of the Bridgeport Board of Education, I'd like to call the legislaturator's attention to the Bridgeport Board of Education's resolution saying

078X and read the resolution. >> So, everyone reading the same thing, >> yes or no? >> Yes. If you're speaking on behalf of the board, you should all just read the resolution and not say anything more because otherwise if you say something more, you may not agree with what she is her rationale, right? I know it's a little bit personnicity, but unless you've delegated authority to to all of you to speak about whatever you want to on behalf of the board, you've all passed one resolution. So, it's safe to read that. You can say what you want yourself, but when you're speaking on behalf of the board, I would advise reading the resolution. Does that work? >> Well, that's clear. I don't know I don't know what the practice is, but just appreciate you um

079you know, speak giving best practices, which is which I was want to hear. Thank you. >> Sure. Yeah, there's no one right way to do things. Um it it depends. I mean, there is, but there's a lot of different right ways to do things is the point. And it depends on what works for all of you. So given that you've passed this resolution, that's how I would go. If you were doing it over again, you could have thought about, well, who's going to speak on our behalf and what are they going to say and put that in the resolution. You could have explicitly delegated authority to each and every board member to say anything in support of it that they want. I wouldn't recommend that. I think that's too open-ended. But there are different ways

080to handle it. Um, you know, if you wanted to say something, if the board wanted to say something beyond, is the resolution a couple sentences? Is it short? >> It's a very short paragraph. It's basically two sentences. So if the board if you if you wanted to provide testimony on behalf of the board that's let's say a page long that's where I I would have said delegate authority to somebody like probably the chair to prepare that temporally on behalf of the board consistent with the board's perspective on this legislation and then Miss Perez could have read the testimony >> and what about the you know having the superintendent you know relay the res resol olution on behalf of the board. >> 100%. That's another way to go. And we delegate um authority to the superintendent

081to prepare testimony on behalf of the board conveying the board's perspective. >> Yeah, >> that's great. Thank you. >> Sure. Thank you for the the good question. >> All right. Ready for another scenario? Actually, this is so funny. You just did this scenario. It's very similar. So recently, three board members have become very concerned about the new school climate policy the general assembly has required boards of education to adopt and wrote a letter to the commissioner of education as members of the Bridgeport Board of Education to lodge a complaint. Some of the other board members do not agree and like the new policy. These board members heard about this letter and were outraged that the three board members did not let them know about the letter in advance. So, we just talked about this. I

082don't think we need to belabor it, but the point is they can't write those three cannot write a letter as members. They I mean, they're not even saying on behalf of, but it's not appropriate to invoke their membership in the board of education to in in a letter like this without the authority to do so. They could write a letter as citizens and say we don't like this. But once they say we're writing a letter as members of the Bridgeport Board of Education, they're suggesting that they represent the interests of the board. >> I don't like that. I I don't like that because I I don't like when they say the board members, but I'm like, okay, why you say board members? I didn't grow that. I never signed that. I never broke that. I

083never see that. So, my name is there and I'm like, I know. If you want to go go straight to that board member and say the name of the board member or you communicate with that board member do not say board member because I'm a part of that right thing you know I trust me they know when they put my name there like that no if it's not coming where the New York agree or coming from that bridge that said I'm saying let them know in advance I'm okay but when they do that because we have experience that I'm not a fled I said my name is not going to be out there with permission give permission for I never never. >> Yeah. And that's exactly so everybody what's important here is that everybody should

084play by the same rules. You know, they're and here in this scenario, they're not even putting everybody's name on it. They're just putting their own names on it, but they're writing to the commissioner as members of the Bridgeport Board of Education. If I'm the commissioner receiving that letter, I'm thinking, "Oh, the Bridgeport Board of Education doesn't like school planning policy." you know, the suggestion that that's been discussed and, you know, passed is is incorrect, which is why it's so important to have your chairperson serve as your chief chief spokesperson. That does not mean, by the way, that your chairperson gets to decide what to say. >> Thank you. not because of her because it happened to us before >> and the chair sent an email on behalf of as as the chair and didn't tell

085us anything about that letter and sent a letter to the state and you know a lot of things that are happening now it's because of that such letter that not even the state people knew about. So on that point, the chair has no special authority to make decisions, which should come as a relief because that's a lot. That's too much responsibility in power. That's no one person should have that. The chair has no special responsibility to make decisions on behalf of the board. The chair has certain very important responsibilities, but making decisions on behalf of the board is not one of them. The chair has one vote like the rest of you. But it's important to remember that the chair is your spokesperson. Meaning they can speak the truth of the board. Right? What the

086board has voted on, you can convey, but you can't convey what the board has not voted on, what the board has not even considered or something that's opposite or contradictory to what the board has has voted on. That's why I was trying to note three times in the last point that we were talking about the last number three that that was one of the suggestion that was brought to our attention with Mr. about Daniel's question was an example was given uh by one of the city uh employees saying that the city council does it like this and what it did is make them you know make a letter and all the board members sign and have that as a resolution that is written down and everyone signs it individually and that's the resolution that is

087clearly written down and then we all agree on that. >> That was one of the suggestion that came out from that meeting. Mhm. >> Um it wasn't done like that, but nevertheless, that's what was said. I put it in my testimony and just said exactly the words that you used where the board, you know, agreed on these things that I just mentioned each one of those that we uh we agreed upon that we supported because of the advocacy we've been doing for the last, you know, few months now. >> Yeah. Having the letter written in advance and then voting to adopt it and then signing it is another way to go. The challenge there is if you have a letter, then everybody picks it apart in a public meeting, right? That it's just a matter

088of what works best for you because you can't have any free meetings to workshop that letter. That's the challenge of being a public agency. So, different boards do it differently, but that's a perfectly fine way to go. If somehow you've had a discussion as a board in public, you delegate responsibility to the chair to write the letter and then you come back at your next meeting and you look at the letter and you say yes, you know, we vote to adopt this. That's one way to do it. >> The reading I'm going what said it looks so familiar. Um if the commissioner received that letter and stuff like that the commissioner supposed to contact the chair and asked the question because coming from the board they supposed to or >> there's no obligation on the

089part of the commissioner to to make that call. >> Does she ignore the letter or what's going to happen? That's my question. You know what she going to do about it is the letter >> depends on what the letter's about. I mean in this example it's um it's to lodge a complaint about a about a policy right about a statute. I don't know that you can complain about a statute, right? That would be more advocacy for the legislature. If it was a complaint about not a law, but a complaint for example about um something that was going on in your district, first of all, I wouldn't go to the commission and that and go to your superintendent and figure it out here. But I I I think what you're asking, so what can she do

090about it? Not much because it's about a policy. Again, if you're if they're lodging a complaint about something that could be actionable, then I would think or hope that it would come back to the superintendent and the board. So, the board would become aware of it because there would be some investigation. There would be steps that would be taken. Yeah. >> So, there would be opportunities for the rest of the board to say, "Hey, wait a minute. This wasn't us. We didn't lodge this complaint." I feel like it's not not respectable. I feel like and then you know like a slap in the face like there's no communication because you're trying to go over the chair. You got to go over the superintendent when you can figure out and fix the problem home before you

091take it. You don't take I know it will be solved. So I don't feel like that's not you know it's not respect but not good way you know because it like I said the news run fast and people's watching people's watching every second. >> Yeah. Yeah. While we do >> Yeah. Which is why this kind of discussion and getting all on the same page is so important. This is not me. This shouldn't be me telling you what to do. This should be you telling each other how you respect each other and others with my goddess. Um and it sounds like you all are on a good path. Um going to do a time check. >> Yeah. All right. >> She got it. So, um, let's talk about committees for a minute. What So, what do

092you I'm going to hide the slide for a minute. So, what do how many committees do you have? >> Three standing committees. >> Three standing. >> And are they they're not committees of the whole, are they? >> The personnel search committee is a committee of the whole committee. >> Okay. So um what do you all see as the role of the committees? >> You do a lot of working committees. Yeah. Okay. >> Recommendations to the board to fully vet the issues and cut it up as much as possible before the board of the board has little work left to do by the time I present it to the phone. >> Right. Exactly. It's really because it's hard to get work done in a board meeting. So, it's really to take on the work of the

093board and make recommendations. Yeah, that that's exactly right. And committees of course are themselves public agencies. I'm sure you all know that. Um, and have to comply with with FOYA. Um, we talked about policies. I have a scenario in here that about committees that I wanted to go to. policy committee is planning a meeting to talk about the board's bylaws. Board bylaws have been a hot topic among the board members and although you are not a member of the policy committee, you want to attend their meeting to hear what they have in mind. Another board member who was not on the policy committee plans to join you. So here are the questions. Is it a problem if the quorum of the full board attends a policy committee meeting? >> Why not? >> Um, you're you're

094correct. However, where do you all sit >> in the meeting? >> Yes, in the policy committee. >> Usually together at the table at the table. So the nonmet members and the polish >> have the the committee members at the >> facing the the screen here >> they all at the same table >> because it's televised so the head table would be where the committee is and then it' be in a U shape >> so non-members sides >> but the >> Yeah I make a suggestion. >> Yeah. So here's the >> I just want to kind of >> I know what you're going to hit it off a little bit by step. >> I want to hear this. >> Why Mr. One thing in this corrects is because even if a me this meeting has the

095committee meeting has been properly noticed and even if another entity notices a meeting forum of the board is still allowed to pretend under foyer because that mean say if we go to city council there's five of us there and we go as a properly noticed meeting of the city council the five of us there and the five of us speaking does not violate foyer because that was a property notice meeting on the foyer. So the committee functions the same way. It's property notice on the foyer. All the things we're going to be discussing is property notice. You are mostly correct. Okay. Here's the nuance. Here's the challenge. The challenge is when a forum of the board attends a policy committee meeting and um sits around the table and engages, do they speak? >> They do.

096It will >> as >> yes >> anybody let me let me make one other thing clear >> only committee members are allowed to vote >> and committee members are speak first non-members are allowed to speak after committee members have spoken and participate but not vote so that only committee members are allowed to vote at the meeting >> you're still not going to like what I what I hear so so the vote Voting isn't as positive and here's why. It's what I said before. The board is a del public agencies are deliberative bodies. So just as important as the vote is the debate and the discussion. It's a meeting of a public agency whether or not you take a vote. So if you have and let me ask you this, you said committee members talk first

097and then board members talk second. Is that part of a public comment period? It is a FOYA issue because it is a quorum of the full board meeting to discuss board business. So here's how I would it's not a no you can't do this. Here's how I would suggest you do it. There are a number of solutions because I don't like to create problems. I like to create solutions. There are a number of solutions. Solution one, you have your meeting. So let's say we're sitting around this table. members of the policy committee sit around the table and those members of the board who are not on the policy committee sit in the gallery with members of the public. They won't be on television, but they shouldn't be because they're not a member of this public

098agency. If you have a public comment period, they can speak during public comment, but they can't participate in the policy policy committee's discussion. >> You don't like that option. We don't have a bubble. We don't have a bubble comment period. You can >> you could you could change by on the >> May may I ask before we go any further? Has there been a definitive foyer ruling on this? >> I probably it's it's kind of black letter law under the freedom of information remissions rules. >> Keep going. >> I have another suggestion. Can you do you have a bylaw outlining how many people can be on a committee? >> No, but from what I was my understanding was that three is odd number. So verbal sake we get yes no in pass four ended a

099tie if they were considered a tie and then five would be form the board. So that was the understanding that I had. So three is kind of where we stand on committees, >> right? And so if it's a quorum of the board, the challenge there is that things end up being a done deal if they make it through committee. So um because I was going to say one option is just make your committee bigger because then when you notice the meeting of the policy committee, they can all appropriately participate in the discussion. Is it the same people who come every week >> or every active? >> Yeah, we all most of them are >> well when you say when you say that it's a done deal um under our bylaws and policies uh or policy

100that I think it is by law um you know there's no decisions that are made on committee level. It's always at the full board member full board meetings. There's no decisions except to move into the full board. There's no decisions made. >> What I meant by done deal is if the policy committee recommends it and it's a quorum of your board, then the people who are left, they know they're going to lose if they vote against it. Not always. Maybe you have a split vote or you don't even have a decision on the committee. That's some of the concerns that I've heard around having this forum of the board on a committee is that you have a quorum of the board working on something and so then when it goes to the board, what's the

101point? I don't think that that's the end of the of the road because the board members may give you feedback, the other, you know, four may give you feedback and say, "Wait a minute, did you think about this? We have questions." And then they send it back to the committee. So, I don't think that that's really an issue. But that is a problem. That is an issue under FOYA. So there are, as I said, there are two ways to handle that. And it sounds like there's not there may not be a much of an appetite for my first suggestion. So you might want to think about the second suggestion, which is making them part of the committee so that they are officially right like appropriately there. I think um Kate we brought they brought this

102up in one of our trainings. Um basically it was quickly like kind of talk about something else. Um so they basically said that if members are participating on committee as not committee members if members of the public which means that that opens it up to the public to also decide on issues. um he said something to that effect basically but we didn't really go into it because we kind of moved on quickly and I think it was more of a like hypothetically if the board members participate that means that you know the mom coming in also right well I think that that the theory is right which is that they have to participate on par with members of the public yeah not as board members in that circumstance Yes. >> You know, and I believe,

103you know, the historical context that I would disagree slightly with your depiction, um, and you could disagree with me if I'm wrong when I lay this out. Um, when I came on the board, there were eight or nine committees. And because there were eight or nine committees, they had trouble getting four of them for a committee. Um so they had three to a committee simply to not require too many people to get a borum. Um so by only having three committees it it would be easier to have five on a committee. Um uh you know the move to three committees occurred during the troubles as we Irish like to refer. Um and during the troubles we went to three committees with less people on period. Um but coming out of the troubles it would be

104possible to have five on a committee. >> Um but we still I think have to deal with your public participation because we often will have more than five people coming to a committee meeting who want to participate >> members. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Um, so I think that we'd still have to wrestle with this concept of letting the public participate in a discussion at a committee meeting in order to cover the FOYA obligation that you're describing. >> Just to be clear though, I don't think you can do that. So I don't I don't want we don't necessarily need to go down this rabbit hole, but it doesn't solve the ma problem to allow the board members while participating as members of the public to participate in the debate. I'm not sure what what was said

105that I think is still a problem. Um so >> see that's problematic children >> but but you know the board what I would tell those other board members who want to be part of the discussion is they will be part of the discussion just not at the committee level they'll be part of the discussion because every committee decision gets brought to the board for final approval or maybe you rotate committees maybe if you're not on policy this year you'll be on policy next year but I think it's a matter of just being vigilant around you're on this committee you get to participate in the how the sausage is made and if you're not on the committee then you get to be part of the ultimate decision and then if you want to be on this

106committee next year great >> um now do you say oh this changing this is the field I know as the n member for us we are the one always come to the meeting I'm one of them doesn't matter give me rain snow I show up and I'm not being part I'm part I'm being part of the committee as you say we got three people sit down on the side of course with the commission but they chair the chair and you know recognize the person speak um but the other board members they're not part of committed on the board you know we can hear them you know stuff like that and that we bring into the full board but now they think like you know change the other board members cannot be part of committed that

107situation um and other item meetings because I know in the end of the day or the next meeting we have to discuss and we have to bring it to the board the whole board to discuss you know and not be part of the or not be on one of the meeting you know little difficult for me to accept it why because I care I just want to know what's going on in each committee you know to see what's going on if I'm not part of the committee of course I'm not going to post but at least my voice can be here you know they can hear my voice what was my opinion I'm not saying you have to listen to me and do what I'm But at least they can know my opinion as a

108board member as a let fiction you know because people like I said should watch us at least second you know and not be part >> you know it's if I'm going because that's okay I'm going to be part so why have to vote so I'm not that's that's not the thing I mean >> so yeah so I I think the answer for for you know we're addressing that concern is you can still come You can listen and you can make your voice heard if you add a public comment period. The thing you can't do though is engage in the deliberation in the discussion. >> Oh yeah, >> Marissa. >> Thank you. Um, so I just kind of wanted to lay out so I I understand completely what's what's happening and all of that, but I

109I'm struggling with I feel like we especially in the policy committee with the way that we've been operating, we've actually created some efficiencies with actually having board members being part of the discussion and actually helped make our board meetings much more effective and free flowing in terms of not actually having the real debate really has taken place during the committee meetings and not so much the board meetings. And it almost seems like we're kind of stepping away from that and saying no, the full-blown discussion with all board members should be happening in the board meetings. And I just kind of wanted to highlight that it's going to cause some back and forth, some additional back and forth. Um, especially if we're editing a document. Um, I mean, at the end of the day, we're going

110to follow the law, but just kind of wanted to highlight that it might not be exactly correct, but it did create some efficiencies from at least my per my perspective. I really appreciate that comment. Um I think it's interrupting efficiency is I I shudder to think that that's what this would do because you guys need efficiency. You need to move through this. You need to review your policies and do it quickly. So I'm definitely not trying to throw roadblocks in the way of that. I'm I'm trying to protect you from a complaint around FOYA. And FOYA is so tricky. It's it's it's a great thing because people should be able to see what you do. They should be able to hear what you do, but it's also tricky in this regard. And so I want

111to help you with options. I have lots of options. One option is make the policy committee a committee of the whole. The challenge there is then you need a forum. Then you need five people to run a meeting, right? So you don't you have options. I think the question for all of you to think about is which one will work best for you. You can make your committee bigger. You can have people sit on the side who are not on the committee so they hear everything that's going on. They can make their voices heard during public comment. Um I mean those are really really the options. the legal piece I can't fix for you, you know, unless you want to petition to change the the FOYA law, the Freedom of Information Act. Um, so I

112think you all will have to just consider which option you prefer and not every committee has to be large. Maybe it's just the policy committee for that efficiency reason that you just described, which is a really valid point. And I will just say I think this is probably just happening because we are in the process of revamping our bylaws. Um, and I think that's just the situation on how things are unfolding right now. But I thank you for for your input and your comments. >> I was just saying I think I think when you when you talk about how you approach policy development through your firm, it's all about this is more. So when you start doing that, you you put yourself in a position to where you can make a sound decision, but you

113have a little wiggle room as well. And so this is pretty much where we are now. Just what's going to work best for this this board because different years is different perspectives. A year or two ago, it was totally different the dynamics of what the board was dealing with and now it's different. But just hearing what you said about committees, committees are supposed to be, you know, working through working with administration to kind of fine-tune the policies. You take that back to the full board for deeper discussions. You know, most of the work is done at committee, but some of those high level things need to be brought to the committee as the committee chair will do and then have that discussion at the meeting with everybody. They can both. So that's that's the query

114or if it needs to be pushed back down to committee for a little bit more clarity then you can do that. So again I think you're but a lot of times we do things inconvenience because we want more people to have voice in the topic and that doesn't work that way legally sometimes and I think that's what hit us in the face now. We are doing things but it's not legally done correctly. uh and eventually it's going to come back and bite us because we felt collectively as a board that this is what we need to do because this is us. >> Yeah, >> that's my say I'm having somewhat of a visceral reaction to this whole conversation because the purpose of foyer is to keep information in the public. The whole purpose is to

115make sure everything is exposed by having these committee meetings with five board members. By the way, the city council follows the same premise and a lot of other people a lot of other bodies as well. Allow people to ask question ask questions at the meetings. Um I'm the first one to draw a complaint when we try to hide something from Florida. I'm the first one to file as a board member. If we get out of line, I will file and I don't have four. Um, but to do this and to that's why I asked about case law. Yeah, >> I like to see a case. I mean >> consequences. Oh, at an open meeting, you had extra board members speaking live on YouTube, being live streamed, discussing things publicly, not hiding it from anybody. That

116does not seem to violate the spirit of the foyer law, which is to be public. >> Yeah, it's So, here's the funny thing about FOYA. Here's where this all comes from. It's all about the notice piece. So, if I'm a member of the public and I'm looking which meeting do I want to go to? Oh, I'm not going to go to the policy committee meeting because that only has three board members on it. They're going to be talking about they're going to be workshopping something and then it's ultimately going to go to the full board for debate. I'll watch the full debate later on when it goes to the full board. Little did I know that the full board was sitting at the policy committee meeting debating that very issue. That's the foyer issue. It's

117about the notice to the public. >> You're the public isn't on notice that the full board was going to have a discussion about this policy. How about another solution in noticing our committee meetings that all board members are welcome will be attending or welcome to attend and participate in the discussion. >> Well then you're effectively >> participate in the discussion. >> Yeah. notice, >> right? The people will be noticed. they they'll notice it and they still keep the same rules of the committee members voting and what have you >> and effective notice because it's been something that's been done by you ever since I started watching board more board meetings sitting council meetings because we don't want to deal with we don't want to damage the efficiency we got because policy budget and all that

118we don't want to be kicking these things back and forth, back and forth because if Mr. Mr. Trader for an example, disagrees with something on the board member and there's only three members there when we could have heard input from everybody else and come up with something that fits with what the majority would be. It makes no sense to if three board members go unanimously and then you got six board members that would be totally amended. >> So, I'm going to play just have this argument on the board. Um I heard quoted that um you should go to committee meeting if you want to have your board. Well, I'm not on that committee. This is an all volunteer board. Why do I have to go to every committee meeting? right to to get things. >>

119Okay. >> And and you know, I resented being told that at one point, >> right? >> But I didn't have time to go to every committee meeting and participate in each of those discussions or or watch go back and watch every committee meeting on YouTube >> to know every issue versus go to the general board meeting where I had a right to ask questions. And I was being told, "We don't have time for your questions here, right? because we discussed it at the committee meeting and my attitude was and just because I couldn't make the committee meeting and ask the questions there, you're telling me I don't have time. I don't have a right to ask questions to you and I'm I'm playing devil's advocate. That strike to me is dead wrong, >> right? elected

120board member, I have a right to come to the full board or I have a right to ask the questions I want to ask just because I couldn't make it to a committee meeting that I'm not on. >> Right? And that's in that scenario doesn't apply because you still have the right to debate at the full board meeting either way. It's not take it's not taken away when it comes to the board meeting because we we do make amendments on the floor to things that pass through committee and we do discuss it thoroughly sometimes sometimes even the people at the committee meeting that have that have discussed it rehash the discussion because they think it might be an important part that public or somebody wasn't going to be a two to one push out of

121the committee and the one person wants to try get another shot of getting an amendment to whatever came out of committee and I guess further discussed so I don't I don't see as conversation early and cut at the current time and in the future going forward if the board operates how it should that debate will be stopped whether something's been cut off in committee or not. >> So I I'm not sure we're going to solve this tonight. Um you know that that happens to be the way that the law works. I I've given you a couple ways to approach it. I want to get back to what you said Dr. bravery, which is when when it comes to policy, I think one important just the policy committee in particular, one important thing to keep in

122mind is if you're spending 15 hours on one policy that's mandated by law, you're probably spending too much time. If you're spending two hours, probably spending too much time. You have the luxury of looking at model policies that have been created for you based upon the law. And as I've said before, there's not a whole lot of wiggle room there. You can't do less. And I I generally advise against doing more. I also advise against deviating too much from the language of the statute because again, that's when you run into trouble. So for better or worse, a lot of your policies are just you're going to take them. If you're having robust debates about a policy, it's probably about a policy that's not required by the law. That's your own local policy. I would suggest

123spending, you know, t talking about efficiency. Um, I would suggest spending your time on those local policies that you may want to repeal or that you may want to revise. But all those ones that you I would start with the ones you have to have. I wouldn't spend so much time on them because you don't really have a lot of wiggle room. I would make sure you don't have policies that are in conflict with each other or multiple policies on the same topic. And so if you're looking for efficiencies, I think that's probably the best way to to get them as opposed to including everybody in the board at the policy committee level so you can have the 15-hour debate about policy, if that makes sense. Um, I've seen it. You're you're definitely not alone.

124Many boards spend a lot of time debating policies that are required, talking about whether there are ways to tweak it, what what makes the most sense. Again, the challenge is that you may run into problems when you do tweak it because it may not be compliant or it may do more than your administration is capable of implementing. So that's the policy. No, I don't want to cut off debate on that. I know that's a big issue for you all and I'm happy to keep talking about it. um committee needs to be as the board chair and the board come back with exactly how that everybody gets to play out because right now practice is not you know conducive to protecting the board members and I think that's that's our job is to be able to

125make sure that we do that you can change it temporarily until they readopt policy that's going to address the issue you know So just for clarity because I apologize I haven't taken business call and my business my line of work is 24 hours a day seven days a week. Um I think we get to this done. What was the main question because I want to make sure I understand all this discussion >> over that scenario. Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Just talking about how policies >> Yeah. How policies op how policy I'm sorry how committees operate versus the full board. Um, and it sounds like this this may need to be an ongoing discussion. >> Yeah. >> Um, so I have a lot I don't know if you all have questions on FOYA. Uh,

126that was kind of the big one. Oh, I do want to touch on this. Text messages. They are a public record. They can be foyer. If you get a foyer request for your text messages, you do have to turn them over. And um that's why, and it's easier said than done, try to limit substantive conversations over text. Try to eliminate it actually, but you also can't I know a lot of boards do this, but you could potentially have an illegal meeting over text. And if somebody I've had a a board go to the foyer commission because somebody foyed the text messages and realized that a quorum of the board was discussing something on the text chain. So just just a word of caution about that. Um so I would res email you know same thing

127over email. You can have an illegal meeting by if a forum of the board um has an email discussion. Um and then records requests. So if you people tend to be more casual in text messages. So sometimes it's embarrassing if you are foyer and you have an embarrassing text message. Um the other thing is sometimes you have to um the district is receives notice of a lawsuit and you have you ever received a a legal hold notice to put to preserve all your emails and text messages and documents. So, it's easier to implement that if you do all your board business using your Bridgeport Public Schools email address. So, long story short, I suggest using your school district email address while doing business and avoiding use of limiting use of texts, avoiding use of your

128personal email address and business. Um, okay. So we just talked about that. Um any other questions about foyer? >> I believe most of the board training. >> I haven't yet because we got a few. >> Okay. And then um Oh, it's 8:21. So I'm going to keep you on time. I have one more scenario about communication and information sharing. I also want to leave time for questions. So maybe we'll do this one and then if there are any other questions maybe I can take those. Um some board members are more engaged than others and they ask the superintendent and other administrators like cabinet members and principles for a lot of information. Not all of these requests or the information provided in response to them make their way to every board member. In addition, the superintendent

129is receiving complaints from some principles that they are spending all of their time creating paperwork for and meeting with board members and don't have time to deal with urgent matters at their schools. At last night's board meeting, one board member stood up and pounded her fist when she saw that another board member reviewing a budget spreadsheet that she had never received. So, let me ask you this because I'm of the mindset that if it's not broken, we don't need to fix it. But is this um what is your protocol for information requests and sharing on this board? >> You should go through every time for information request >> as opposed to approaching individual cabinet members or administrators. And we're and we're currently in the process of tweaking it to protect the superintendent from frivolous overburingly

130overburing requests from board members and also that he should put out all information requests. Everybody gets more information goes to this to the whole board. >> Well, somebody spooked me because that's what I was going to say. Yeah. >> And there's a process being developed like If he feels it's too labor intensive and it take away too much time and it's program of value, he'll have to go to the chair or write a little brief letter on why it can't be done or something like that and >> It's not an issue. Yeah. It's good. Okay. That sounds like we're involved. I think it's the establishment that we should be going to superintendent and not department heads because I know in the past there was issues with board members going to straight to department heads when

131something wasn't happening or something going wrong in their department. >> Um and I know we've been working on like making sure we go through the our employee we should be suggesting them and not going to miss this cabin not going to directly principles. >> Yeah. Um, and also if they're coming to us for something, we should be directing them to superintendent too. I know I know some programs have really shook with >> uh staff district um with them and so sometimes casual conversations happen and there's issues that come up but those should be directed to the superintendent not directly to us. >> Yeah. Perfect. And if there is a really voluminous or burdensome request, one strategy is the board could vote as to whether the board, the full board wants the superintendent and his cabinet

132to spend the time to fulfill that request. So that takes the burden off of you as the chair to make the decision unilaterally. >> I feel that when you got communication, respect, aggressive, that's all. >> You won't have that what you here for. Yeah. You're going to respect your colleague that's better. It's not there yet. I know that doesn't be like you're going to have an issue. Now I have to respect your fee and your comment and your vote. But when you have a good communication etaring in the past it was perfect you know the communication was tough but now having a new or handling chair and everything a lot of things change but I mean it's not perfect. >> Yeah. you know, we have up and down, but at least it's a good spread.

133>> Yeah. >> And I always ask for that Google spread communication and at the end of the day, we going to have a nicer solution. >> Yeah. And that's >> Yeah. I'm still waiting on the information about uh how many pencils and pieces of paper we see stuff. I'll tell you that. >> Um I have a question general, not to this. Um when it comes to you as our legal console or the firm um when it's communication with you or our chair um how do we make sure as a board our as a board our voice is being heard by you guys because I know in years past you know the chair is the only one that said that should be speaking to to the firm itself but if we have question as a as

134a member of this board. How do we get information or you know even the cabinet say chair, vice chair, collector, how do we because I I I definitely want my voice to be heard instead of question because I don't know if you guys are answering the questions that we have as a a board as an individual but as a board and that question >> that's a that's a good question. So I will tell you the general practice when I work with boards is that questions to c communications with council to the board are do go through the chair that is kind of the universal practice however sometimes the chair will say you know Mr. Medina has a question. Can you reach out to him or he's going to reach out to you? But if the

135chair is the go-between um but that does happen. Part of it is a cost issue, right? Because if you all were calling me all the time, that would get expensive. Part of it is um what are to your point, what are the board's questions? Not your individual questions, but what questions does the board have for council? It could be a committee question. the policy committee might have a question for me for my firm and I work a lot with policy committees. Um, if the board has a question then and you all want to hear the answer, I could write an email, I could write a memo, I could come to an executive session. So, there are definitely ways for you to hear directly from me. The harder question is who develops the questions? And I

136I think you said it yourself, the board has to develop the questions or the committee has to develop questions. It's harder when an individual, you know, it it's too um I think it would be endless if individual board members could ask legal counsel their their questions. I think that would be unworkable for you all as a board. Does that help? >> Oh, I agree. But I just wanted to Yeah. >> get that. >> Yeah. I think you gave us a nice and gave me definitely some structure in how we should go about asking for make sure the question is developed by us and we already know what the question but we'll see the answer to that we shared with the whole board. >> Yeah. But and also I mean I do the same thing with

137staff. I send a memo when we hired them on. the memos is that that that only limited people have the ability to contact legal due to cost for one and I need to kind of understand how and what type of engagement is happening below me in order for me to you know be able to kind of make sure if I hear from board members I already had I'm kind of I know the a little bit knowledge about what's going on. So you have to kind of limit it to a point where you know myself, maybe the CFO, maybe the HR person and special ed are the main ones because those are the main issues. You got special issues, you got HR issues, financial issues and then then anything that I have to bring to the

138table and stuff. So, you're limited. Um because the cost is >> that's one of the things the board wanted me to make sure is that we we limit the the amount that we're spending on legal fees across the district. And so that's the only way that you can do it is do that way. Do it that way. >> And even before we go, we're going to go to our city first. >> So they could advise us on you know that would be handled easil by >> shipment because they they're experts in policy. So that's what has happened and to kind of take too much time. So they'll uh Toms or attorney kind of know what we should be delegating to firms to save our money and and yeah we try to be as efficient as

139we possibly can. We've we've seen I can't say we've seen it all because I deal with new issues every day, but one of the reasons um we we are expensive, but we're also very efficient because we work with so many districts. So, we've generally seen most issues before and can answer things pretty quickly without spending a lot of time. >> Other questions? >> I don't have a question, but I have a comment and I need to get out because I got rock in the shoes. the part we be talking about the policy you know before I will be honest I didn't like it I don't know why I'm giving my free time to the district I be almost 20 years from the district I start when my son was in kindergarten graduated from high school

140so it's me the oldest one more they know us very well and having that situation like you said right now you know now it's in the red quartering and day. It's not a lot of things going to happen. I'll be honest with you. I'll be a lot of things going to be happen. But like I said, I'm giving my free time to I love it. I enjoy I never give up. Only God is the person can stop me. But when I say online is because whatever I was doing and someone here with I can be sometime I be in the hospital and I'm online. I'll be in the hospital and I told the nurse don't come bother me because I have I have a board that get me and I tell another person I don't

141mind. you know whatever's happening to me in my life they know that every know I'm always there you know so I'm giving my free time to be on the board to be on the committee because I care not you bring this is something they they bother me to be honest I'm going to be honest because you know we're doing this free imager >> no I know I understand don't worry and I I thank you for that as long and everything but I just want to say because you You know, this is something that I I do it because I enjoy I love it. >> And let me tell you, I so appreciate that you made the comment. I get it. I, like I said, I have tremendous respect for all of you. Um, my job

142is to help you problem solve. And let me let me also be clear for anybody who's watching, you didn't do anything wrong. What I suggested was a tweak. I'm trying to allow you find a way where you can keep doing what you're doing. I'm not saying to stop. I'm just trying to find a tweak so we can do it and it makes sense and it's all good going forward. So, you didn't do anything wrong. You can keep doing what you're doing, but there are a couple of tweaks that you might >> say that we should we like maybe add public comment and so we pass a policy. >> Yeah, I think that's a good add public comment. You your voice can still be heard. You can still attend. Maybe where you sit could be different,

143but I'm definitely not telling you not to go. There are just a couple of tweaks you can think about. >> And then maybe we can make a priority on figure out what we're going to do in this committee. What are you saying? >> Walking into dangerous territory when we want to start discussing budgets and budget cuts and start sitting around this table and deciding what potential $20 million we got to cut and not allowing board members to participate and we allow the rest of the general public to participate. That'll be a >> second operations. >> Well, then make it a full committee. >> Yeah. committee a special meeting of the board >> of the committee as a whole >> when you have to talk about budget when it's a big issue like that >> and

144and just >> any agenda >> yeah I I understand trying to get it want to speak so I I was just going to say that we we by making it open to the public we just let it can't when we let the public comment that's at the beginning of a meeting when it's of no use. You haven't had a discussion. So we are actually in the ad hoc committee on advocacy public speaks throughout the meeting >> unless you do topic public comment topic. We'll probably just implement public comment >> every you could also have public participation. Yeah, you could just allow public participation as we're doing in the advocacy meetings where the public are allowed to participate openly in the meeting and then board members could participate just like the public. Um I mean there's

145no reason you can't. There's not a lot of people that are going to want to participate. Um that's why our forums will probably alleviate that pressure to the committee meeting just saying it will alleviate that when we have those discussions we're going to be different. I I I assure you that >> um actually I was just going to bring up the same exact discussion you guys were bringing up because sometimes there's discussion on the table and then that prompts something in my head and I want to chime in on that. So I was actually going to propose if we have a public comment at the beginning we should have one towards the end as well or intermittently. So my that's why I put down my hand. You guys kind of chatted through what I was

146going to bring up. Thank you. >> I I I see that's the last policy committee meeting was 3 hours long. >> Can you can you imagine the public debating back and forth along with the board members in that meeting? >> Can't imagine them saying, frankly, you seriously underestimate the power of somebody who's less than me. issues and trouble intervening in our meetings. people sitting at home waiting for us to notice a meeting five minutes late to drop a foyer complaint on us to come here and sit during a debate on let's let's look at your next committee meeting by referral about Eid and the public coming out of Eid and the holiday you could get nuts at this meeting you can get anti-Muslims You can get pro Muslims. You could have 50 people from the

147Muslim community here and 50 right wingers over here and everybody gets to participate. We've noticed that public can participate. We can't shut that down. We can't we can't shut their viewpoint down and we can't shut their viewpoint. If we allow their viewpoint, we've got to allow that viewpoint because we cannot have viewpoint discrimination. I see potentials for big messes going wrong. >> So I just want to clarify I public participation is different from public comment. I would not advise that you allow public participation or debate um for the same reason that you don't allow public participation or debate at your regular board meetings. That itself could be a FOYA issue because all of a sudden you're down a road that wasn't noticed. I my sense is that this is a big topic for you all.

148I think it may be wise to discuss it potentially an executive session with more of my advice um so that we can you know talk a little bit more deeply about it. But I'm happy to think about ways for you to make sure that all board member voices are heard, perspective, valued, you know, participate and that the public is able to hear and um and you know, watch these meetings happen in compliance with FOYA. And I am confident that we can find a way to do both of those things, but I don't know that we're going to be able to do it tonight. Two things I know the board and cab and Kevin we ready for anything people can't complain for a while they go trust me we we we ready for that we are

149wired we know how to hand out situation second having a meeting like Mer say something 3 hours something it's going to become I'm more conserate to staff sometime the staff you know they have life we have a lifestyle you know we have life we work and everything but sometime they have to come test day early in the morning that they told them you also know you know they they have to so sometimes we have that situation add more people it's more time for them you know so I I I respect the time you know they they here so you know I know they they do the job but they're humans we all humans so I just want to say yes >> um other questions these Good question. >> We have to do it or we

150can like say we can keep what it was supposed to be or we have to change it. >> I'm sorry. >> Do we can um do we can keep doing the way we do in the meeting with >> the committees >> or we have to change. >> Yeah, I know. I know. But she asked a question just so what I have shared is how the FOYA how the how the FOYA works. Yeah. and how the commission looks at things. I've given you a couple of options which you can try out and if you wanted to think about a long, you know, maybe you try out those options in the interim, you experiment with them. If you wanted to think about a long-term plan that works best for you all, I think it would be best

151to talk about my advice in executive sessions so that I can provide it and keep it privileged. Um, so >> there it is. How come this never happened before you expect? You never you never sought out legal opinion about >> Well, it was but it didn't happen. >> Well, it just happened. K made the recognition it was okay, but we still didn't vet it out legally, you know, in every aspect of that. So that's and not doing anything wrong. It's just the procedural things that takes place that may get yourself in a bind. The fact of the matter is Jody said to us a year ago that you guys are about half of what you're doing is wrong in your policy and you're better than most districts. >> True exact words what he said. >>

152Exact words. >> Exactly. But >> also the state the state wanted to tell school us about how bad we were and his comment was, "Oh, you're bad, but you're not as bad as so many." And it's a lot of districts have things wrong, but this just happens to be one that we need to fix now because we've been advised. >> Well, look, and you know what, that's exactly right what Jody Bowler said. >> Look, there are no no district is perfect. Every district has things that they do and all we can do all I can do as a legal advisor is tell you about the and >> it's good because after we we've done what we come they need to keep following policy the way it is you know they don't did it before now

153they have to follow the way it is where they come after us >> not seeing any of his I move to adjourn because I want to respect everybody's time and I know we can stay here for another hour and a half so discussing but I move to ajourn Motion to make a second by any >> favor I at 8:41. >> Thank you. Have a good night. Have a good night everyone. >> Thank you. Good night.