In-Person Bridgeport Board of Education Workshop Tue 9/30/2025

001We're live. >> Well, good evening. Um, this is an inerson um workshop facilitated by Nick Risa and Jody Gold. Get it right. >> Y >> and today's Tuesday, September 30th. It's 6:05. Um uh today we're we're discussing bylaws um regarding committees um in person we have Perez we have Meritza Estra men uh board members online including Kisha Cameir uh Rob Treyberg Andre Woodson Willie Medina that's it and then we have M Dr. as well person. I'm going to uh turn over to get to have dinner together every time we come down here. She's great talking about baseball. Um, so one of the things that has come up and I'm I I'm going to turn it back to you a second just to ask you to maybe help us frame tonight's work. But my observation is

002that one of the places where the board has probably not functioned as effectively as it can is in the use of the subcommittees. Yeah, there's some lack of clarity about the purpose of some of the work that's being done. Um I would say with our combined experience of like almost a hundred years of school board leader or educational leadership um there are certain things that you can observe in in the way things are running and it seems like there you're using committees perhaps not as well as you could. Um the reason that is important is one and I kind of get because there have been some vacuums and when there's a vacuum somebody has to come in and fill the vacuum. if it's a vacuum of leadership, but part of your charge from the state,

003part of your obligation to the district is to reinforce the leadership. You've got Doc Bravery here who can um take the reigns on a lot of things that may have been done at through committees in the past because it had to get done. So I see our responsibility is to sort of help refocus the board on what do committees do? What are the best practices? Um what is a good committee structure? What would that look like? I want to reinforce perhaps a little more sternly the impact on staff when committees are not focused on all the work or on the appropriate work because you might find well this is kind of about policy. So we're going to do it in policy. Well, maybe it really shouldn't be in policy. But so in the absence of

004any direction, everything becomes committee work. And the real structure with or the real frustration with that is your central office has to staff every subcommittee meeting. They have to fulfill the expectations of those committees, prepare for them. Then the work that is generated by those committees has to be done by them. And that's a huge burden on administration. So I think trying to focus our attention behind focus our attention. >> I'm glad you're here. This is a lot easier to do. They have to pick up Albert. The traffic is a little heavy. So, um, where was it? We're just getting started with the idea that he lost in the elevator. >> So, I guess to start, I'd like to, and I'm asking this, do you think this is right? is to really start to say,

005okay, what what are the purposes of subcommittees? Um what what's your court structure look like and try to determine if all of the work is relevant to the subcommittees or if it's something that's been there because it hadn't been done elsewhere. Um I've done this exercise with other districts and a lot of times if you're right and I plan on doing this with the different committees, you have to interrupt just what do the committees do and then what is something that's really appropriate for a committee? what is should be something that should be guided by policy through administration. There may be some of that now. Um and it might not be something that you can go from A to B immediately but from A to Z immediately but maybe have to do some steps in

006between because as I said there have been some vacuums in the past and as you overcome each of those it might make for another step toward moving toward your ideal. Um I guess Jen, I'd start with you. Does that sound like a a good way of starting or >> that's kind of what we talk? >> Yeah, >> that's where I was leading in. >> Yeah, we were talking about this as well looking at one of the major goalies really determining what what is the goal of what's the relationship between the board of education full board and the subcommittees? What is the board's authority? What is the subcommittee authority? How is information provided to the subcommittee from the board? who determines what the subcommittee should be working on and and doing its deliberations on and its

007research on and some of, you know, getting into the weeds on. Um, and and and how's how is that information brought back up to the board and its role as the the the board's role in terms of adopting what these committees are doing or considering, receiving presentations, acting on recommendations and so on. But I think that's a really critical component as well. almost I think like a creating mental map around the relationship of the board with subcommittees. So once you determine what the sub subcommittes are and what their charges are part of I think critical part of that is going to be now that we've determined that what's the board's relationship with those subcommittees how information is given to subcommittees and brought back up to boards to the role of the board there. No. Um,

008and the other thing because I know part of the discussion was revolving around the bylaws, but I think in our minds that comes after you agree on what the committee structure should look like. Right now there's a lot of policies sometimes even contradicting each other. Some of them were obviously written to circumvent something that was abused in the past and that's not really the best way of writing policy because you're fixing things that were broken rather than let's start fresh. You know Jody made an pointed out an example of you know your policy is several pages long. Farmington is like a column. Um and do we start by changing all the fixes again or do we say let's start from scratch? Let's talk about the purpose of poly committees is ABC uh even to what

009what are the pol what are the committees you're going to have you know do you need six 8 n Shelton number of years ago they went from 9 to three and they then took and I'm ready to do that if it helps tonight each committee what did they do well if you only had three and let's say one is operations budget uh personnel etc buildings that's all under the umbrella of operations. Um, and frankly, I think sometimes a committee like that shouldn't have a lot to talk about because you're looking at the macro look at it. But again, we have to sort of look at how things are done here. And and we're not here to tell you this is the only way you should do it. We're try to help share best practices with

010you and help you come to consensus together on what you think best will work for you. Um, but we went through the shopping list and this is what this committee does and they had nine. So it took a while and they realized that yeah they only needed three um operations. They call it teaching and learning but an academic focused one and then a policy and that was what they and so then we took all stuff that they did what what committee should this go under if at all. How many of these and they had they probably were a dozen activities that they said you know if we had a policy that said this is what should be done administration could do it and it doesn't even have to be a board decision. So, um, hopefully

011because if you're spending all your time in board meetings and you have very long board meetings, I I try to watch them, okay? And I I realize there's usually a block of two hours of executive session in the middle, but not always. Um, meetings shouldn't have to go that long. They really shouldn't. If you're policy makers and and governance, you should need to do that much work. And your subcommittees, I know, are just compiled on top of that. And so, um, I'm wondering how much of a disconnect there is between what you feel obliged to do and what you have to do. And again, if we can help you get to a more reasonable place, that's why we're here. So, um, I guess I would ask and and forgive me, this is like the worst

012kind of meeting to have with hybrid, but we're going to do the very best we can. We want to make sure everybody has a voice. Um, but I want to just open the conversation. What um what do you believe committees should be or what how do you envision a a properly acting committee structure starting with I think Jody mentioned it first who directs the work how does or what is the relationship between the committee and the board as a whole I'm throwing that out yes sir I believe the committee what we have is what we have in the district have to resolve the situation before we bring it up but what we have in the interest we have a lot of BS of course we have from n we have three and sometime we have

013three or four from that three or four that's why sometime committee is long and sometime when we go boe we got like you said it's long because we some people want to ask more question so for me this committee is what we have in our district what we have as a board member work with Dr. as one reason. >> Yeah. Yeah. I This is partially being a little pissy, but just preface it by saying that what this meeting was about. And so any sort of ability to sort of think about it in advance agent notice doesn't say I didn't know you're supposed to have three other meetings at this hour two other meetings at this hour and this got thrown into. So I'm just looking and frankly there's something else I feel is almost as

014pressing for me to be doing right now. So I'm I'm like sort of oh well this is an interesting discussion. I love meeting with you guys and having these discussions. Well, that tastes like, oh, wow, this is a great discussion to have, but wow, I haven't thought about this at all. So, that's my pissy presence. I'm being honest. That's why we hear nothing but long. So, so um you know presumably our committee meetings are where we can get some preliminary work done before full board can. I know from your point of view our meetings are long and lately we have had some executive session work that had to be done and it it has been legitimate and we of course spent an enormous amount of work over the last few months doing policy work mandated

015by the state for what as Jody said was we were above the curve but way on it you So >> we have we have fixed that and are now in this position to start moving forward. Um and I think that's going to be sort of the purview of what happens post November. Um we're sort of in that pre-election phase. Um so uh hopefully the board moves forward in a positive way after that. Um so uh let's cross our fingers and hope that happens. But we will then have a hopeful three four decision about how committees when committees and they move forward in a positive way. And I heard you about having the discussion before you rewrite the bylaws made perfect sense to me. >> Um so having said that I I think that what we've

016been doing is sort of streamlining things pretty well frankly. Um, the only thing that I find extraordinarily frustrating is an an abundance of special meetings, unplanned call meetings may not just like to see us get into a rhythm of having planned meetings. I've been trying to keep my committee meetings down to a minimum amount of time with some success, I think, but you know, we just seem to have a an abundance on this special meeting after that special meeting and this one appeared to be another. Um, and that's where, you know, it's like let's not have too many let's get into the rhythm of the board meets these days, these committees meet these days, and let's keep to a minimum any other unforeseen meetings so that we people know when we're meeting, board knows when

017we're meeting. Um and so if we have we settle on what our committees are and what their role is going to be and what we're trying to do at these committee meetings. um and how we're going to do it and what our job is at these committee meetings and we all agree on it that we we then are leaning of operating the sh >> which is kind of what we walked into tonight thinking that's the purpose of tonight's meeting is start that conversation you know I know the the agenda said policies um bylaws regarding and and frankly part of that was that our suggestion was why are you starting to look at bylaws and words smmith when you're not even clear on what the expectations are and in my mind a good policy starts with

018this is the purpose and that's really where the board should focus 90% of its attention the details are not as critical necessarily other than I think there's been a history here of using bylaws to control behavior >> well the details well the bylaws will ultimately be informed by the discussions you have and and so when you need to replicate it and to to create that pattern of expectations and and and business then you have policy that will guide that >> and you're going to feel better about the work too. >> I see Andre's hand up Andre. >> Yes. I I I thought that, you know, our that our subcommittee meetings are kind of like redundant and, you know, I I I kind of like the way that Christine handled the subcommittee meetings where we're not

019taking everybody's questions during the meeting. You know, the the meetings were 20 to 30 minutes. We got business done. We move stuff forward. You know, now we have subcommittee meetings and everybody's asking questions. Then we get to the regular regular uh uh meeting and people are asking the same questions. You know, we're not it's like we we're we're asking questions at these subcommittee meetings. We're not moving forward. We're not getting anywhere. And then we know usually you ask questions. By the time we get to our regular meeting, we should be ready to move on stuff. So the meeting won't be so long. But they're asking the same questions over and over and it's kind of holding us back. Thank you. >> Thank you. Part of it is really and this is something and don't feel

020like this is just bridworth. A lot of districts struggle with where's the line. Um I know in my district when I was board chair I stopped having a curriculum committee discussion um now called teaching and learning probably but because they spend an hour and a half talking about it at committee and then they'd come to the board and I'd spend an hour go over the same thing. is that that's redundant and um if and something as important as academics or whatever in my mind is the work of the board and that really should be something for the whole board. So we just dissolved that subcommittee um for the time being and that was the committee of the whole. So and and that again that you know will Oh god you go finish your talk. Well,

021I was going to say in my mind that was a really good use of time because one want to get the board focused on the right work, but secondly, we were, you know, keeping the staff busy because every time there's a subcommittee meeting, they're they're dropping just like they do for the regular board meetings and these special board meetings that, you know, they're putting all the materials together to lead to provide you the resources you need to make decisions and D. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that that's a perfect example because I was online from the start of the meeting. Um, and one of the questions you guys you guys had is, you know, one of the statements that you made was, you know, this will be more better for people, you

022know, when when we're sitting out in front of each other. You know, that was a thing that this meeting just popped up for me personally out of nowhere. Um, it wasn't discussed by the full board. It was just made up by people that made those decision but nothing was discussed with me as a board member and to to the thought that you guys were sharing that's why I think sub committee so I want to ask subcommittees committees what is the difference between those because I I'm a mean word so I words matter to me you guys say sometimes subcommittee then you guys say committees so is there any difference first of all between those two >> okay because you guys calling our committee subcommittes The only said the only difference William would be that committees

023in my view can from my experience would also include like ad hoc committees um subcommittees there there are variety of different kinds of committees a board can have. Um subcommittees are the standing committees that the boards determine are necessary to to do the work for the full board. So again you look at for example um operational management. So you have a subcommittee that meets every month on issues the board is concerned about related to operational management whether it's a budget or building issue or things like that. So so the sub so boards boards of education have to exist. Every every district has to have a board of education. Not every board of education has to have subcommittees. Subcommittees are designed to help the board do its work. >> I point exactly. See, you're using the

024word subcommittee. I want to make sure that I can understand and then you use the word IHOP which we were passing that word around because we want to make sure that we protect even the board moving forward. So your your question before was when I was online was what is the relationship between uh the committees or subcommittee as you name them and the board and I think the relationship is I don't know if again I want to make sure I don't get lost in translation to me the sub the committees that you call subcommittee are formed from the board the every board member has a committee that is assigned by the chair of the board as she deemed you we make recommendations. She'll ask us or the chair usually asks what committee you would like

025and you know be a part of that was my experience with two different chairs uh that I've been under. So that's what we did but then you know >> the IHOP committee was something that I was you know trying to build through policy to make sure that we could protect each other as a board to be able to think because the relationship for me is that work is done almost like what Mr. Woodson said at the very end the only part that I agree was the very end to make sure that we all do all that work and all those question be asked in subcommittee in committee that when it goes to the full board the work all the question have been done that's why I feel that it's important that all board members be

026allowed to shall speak at committees that we can get those that work done already that way we can when we move forward to the full boards things are already done like uh if you guys you know Look, that's what was happening when we got our new chair and we started working together collaborators deeply before the state was here that we were you know stuff was done in committee and when it went to the full board it was just about guys we already did all the work all the question anybody ask question no let's move forward and it was just being voted on it was done very for me efficiently um so that's the that's the relationship between committee our committees and our board >> yeah again I think we have peel peel certain things. So,

027first of all, the board the board as a as a full board determines what its subcommittees are and those are the committees that do the board's work, meet regularly, present back to the board, make recommendations to the board. The board acts on can question. You don't need to have the same presentation for the full board because it had the com the committee looked at it and is reporting back to the full board on the presentation making recommendations. So you have so that the board the full board also determines do we need an ad hoc committee. There's an issue in our community with our schools. It's a temporary issue. We need to put group of people together to to address the issue. We'll have a report by the end of the year make recommendations to the

028full board. The board will determine whether it acts on it or doesn't act on it. And so that's the ad hoc committee. But when you get into the actual meetings themselves, this is and I've had issues with board members as a superintendent. I had a board member. We had for example a a um a finance committee and the finance committee um met and discussed that's example an operations committee operate and it looked at school school issues um school health and safety and those kind of issues. So this board member was not on this subcommittee but as a board member he wanted to go to the meetings. The message I had to give him as the superintendent who had a direct line to cave because I I was in I worked in the member district and

029I I received my legal support from Cave said a board member can certainly attend a subcommittee meeting and attend but that person is attending as a member of the community. that person is not on the subcommittee doesn't vote and also shouldn't sit with the subcommittee should make it very very clear that that person is there can speak when when members of the community can speak that person can speak so there is and again I know committees can be a little bit less formalized they there's a little more give and take but from a legal perspective which is which is really important for the board to consider you have if you have a subcommittee of three people you don't have a quorum this group can meet and and discuss as a committee and they bring recommendations

030back to the full board in a quorum make make a motion second it and then vote to adopt what the committee recommended. So you have to be really careful that when you're in a subcommittee structure, the three people on the committee who are appointed by the board chair, again depending on your bylaws, they're the ones charged with making doing the due diligence to look into the weeds and determine what has to be presented to the board for for recommendation. And and as a board member, if you're not on the subcommittee, you're a member of the community at that point. you speak when the community can speak and you are responded to and I it's really frustrating for board members but that's around FOI and and legal pieces um it could become an issue if you

031don't operate that way so on that note for us we don't our public don't speak in committees meetings so would that be a recommendation that you guys will make uh for us maybe to think about that I I just wonder because that that does not apply to us because our committee committees are run and they don't have um public speaking. So a board member couldn't speak as a public. So I want to make sure that we you know bring it to our level. >> That's a really smart question and and from my experience and and the districts are different. I'm not here to proitize, right? Um if if if there's a policy committee to me, subcommittee that meets monthly, right? You should you should have a you should have in my view an opportunity for

032the public to speak because part of your deliberations is listening to your community about the topic a policy topic in your meetings. >> That's where I get lost in translation. With all due respect, I'm going back to the discussions. That's where I get lost in terms for me. Committee is a committee. That's what we have as right now in this board. A subcommittee will be something like what we do with the public that we'll get, you know, some people from the public within and we do like a subcommittee about a topic. To me, that's for me that will be the three different uh the board committees and subcommittees are those that we involve. That's what I will call a subcommittee. But not you know you keep on referring to us and our committee meetings subcommittee

033and that's why I think I lose my translation is I think our committees are committees and the subcommittees will be those that we think like I know uh Dr. Avery and his team built some other committees, you know, throughout the district and we are all al we're involved, the public's involved, administration is involved, leader, you know, everybody is kind of like in that room. So that's where I'm like to me that's what it means to me. A subcommittee is something different than what we have. I guess I would love to have an agreement amongst ourselves. So we use the terms interchangeably for right now. Um because we're talking about the same structure. We're talking about the same group of people making the same decisions. I don't know that getting into the semantics of what drives

034one to be a subcommittee versus a committee. You're talking about less than a quorum of the board meeting officially to discuss specific topics. And so you can use the word committee or use the word subcommittee. I would you intend to use them interchangeably frankly and I would only answer that question is that you the board has work let's begin with the board has a function has work to do. It has it has policies to adopt it has business to complete. um the board as a as an entity has can't do all all of its deliberations, all of its research as a full board. So then you think, well, how do we get that work done at at a at a at a with a finer grain size, people who can really get sink their teeth

035into it and and get work done? That's where you develop committees. And and so how does that then you ask yourself how does that committee do its work, do its deliberations? Well, to to an extent, we do want to hear from our public. So then you think, well, do we need to have an agenda where we get public comment on the agenda item, and that that's that's certainly something that districts do and and and boards do to have their committees be better informed. But but again, never lose sight my again as a superintendent, I would always say to my board, never lose sight of the work you're doing that you're driving and is under your authority to do. So when you when you get a public input, it's about your work. If you're looking to

036have a meeting just to get public input about a lot of different things, have have a hearing, you know, h have a have a big town meeting and and and not have it a board meeting, but have just say we're we're interested in this topic. We're we're looking at the next 20 years. We want to hear all the different people in our community come and speak to this issue. Um we're looking at a major strategic plan. You know, you you can do all of those different things, but they're not board meetings. at hearings and you get to listen to the public. You get to even interface with the public if you want to. >> But I want to just clarify one might not call it meeting. It's still under the guise of the law. It's

037still a public meeting, >> right? It's a public meeting, right? >> It's the purpose is different. But um you've had your hand up and a couple times you were shaking your head. So, >> well, I I I listening with interest. Um we don't call them subcommittees. So, let's just be clear. We call them committees. I understand what you're saying, but I think about Congress and all that. A committee will have subcommittees. Um, and we call them committees. Um, and you know, many organizations I've known call them standing committees. And the difference really is an ad hoc committee is a temporary committee. Um, you know, we're going to have an ad hoc committee spend the next three months looking at this issue. And that's why it's called ad hoc. Um, it's not going to be a

038permanent committee. A standing committee is a permanent committee. um sometimes called standing committee, sometimes just called a committee. Um um and you've agreed that these are the committees we're going to have. Um we lost sight as I understand it, although people may or may not agree with this history, not having been a part of it. I'm just going to describe it roughly. Um but about two or three years ago, uh there was a dispute about how we formed how we decide on committees. Um um and um uh we went from more to less. Leave it as vaguely as I can. Um and we combined a couple and that became the precedent that enabled somebody Christine to go from to even less. Um but you know there had been some belief that in the past the

039board agreed to what the committees were not the chair and so that needs to be resolved in whatever new bylaws are out there is how we decide on committees. Um you know is it a board decision or a chair decision and I'm not expressing that's an important decision that we need to make is how we decide on committees. Um the belief was is that the the board decided it um but because there was some less than full discussion about going from 9 to 7 or whatever it was and then when Christine decided to go from 7 to three um you know there was outrage but the precedent of going from 9 to 7 was used to justify going from 7 to three not trying to pass any judgment they're just saying that's so we need

040to go back and have that clear. >> I'm not sure what you should do. And who is clear? >> There are boards say the chair. >> I'm trying not to really have that discussion. I'm just trying to say we need to be clear. >> Yeah. >> Um and so um that needs to be clear and then the the chair then appoints the committee um the three members or however doesn't say how many members. >> That's correct. >> So we need to be decide that too. um and uh whether or not everybody's on a committee because that was one of the things that didn't happen in that last year was two members of the board were not assigned committees. Um so we need to be clear about how that works too. Um and um um you

041know uh you raised a couple of interesting discussions in there when you were trying to decide willing whether there's sub subcommittee and I I think you're correct. We need to be clear. We're talking about the same thing whether we call them committees or subcommittees that we're talking. So let's just because we call them committees call them committees today. Not that it matter you know but we'll call them committees for the sake. >> Let me say what did Nick and Robert say? I go >> let's just we'll call them committees for now. There are we we may have a subcommittee at some point for some reason that we may want to address in the bylaws the creation of subcommittees. Remember, a subcommittee is a subset of a committee. If you only have three to begin with,

042that really narrows your focus. >> It's if the committee decides that it's going to create a subcommittee of some sort for some reason, then we should allow for it in the bylaws. Under what circumstances it might happen, but I'm I'm not arguing for or against it, right? I'm just saying that's the way it would happen. And same with an ad hoc committee. under what circumstances an ad hoc committee would be created. And I think we were discussing a particular ad hoc committee recently being created for some purpose. I can't remember what it was right now. I'm blanking, but we were talking about an ad hoc committee. Um, >> we're just talking about making the personnel committee a committee the whole >> No, there was another I thought there was another topic, but you you are

043correct about that. I'm not disagreeing with that. But so and then I wanted to say your comment you made a moment ago about um discussions in committee and I really resonated because contrary to the historic um um description of my colleague um we were not allowed to participate in the committee discussions. Then we were chastised if we wanted to then continue the discussion on the full board under the previous chair. Um, and so I agree. I do not I'm not one that believes I should be required to win every committee meeting if I'm not on a committee. Uh, I don't have time for that. If I'm assigned a committee, I'll attend. I am one of those people who did try to get to most committee meetings to participate. But if I can't make a committee

044meeting, I don't want to be required to to do all my homework before the full board and expect to know everything. I want to be allowed to have the discussion at the full board meeting. Um so it's an interesting conundrum that you lay out about are we expected to know everything that happened at every committee meeting um or not. Um and so you laid that conundrum out and and it should be discussed. Um so I I leave it at that. Um you know we're going to expect every board member to know everything that happened at a committee meeting before they come to the full board. Um, so I I like the way you said that. If it's going to be a matter like the one you described, it's the full board's going to decide it

045a curriculum matter, then let's just have it be a curriculum matter that's presented to the full board. It's a it's a topic rather than >> discussed for an hour at the committee before it's presented to the full board. I agree with that. >> Yeah. >> And then Andre after >> So I've had a lot of conversations with you and Jody about this too. um just in general should be um uh don't have authority unless the board gives it authority. Right. >> Right. So uh in that sense referrals to the board should be the board says we want this item on the committee. So when it comes back to the full board that commission restart mine >> okay so when it um comes to the full board um you know per our bylaws or the chair

046is supposed to produce a report about it to the board so that those who can't make it the committees can have a full report right and so and ask questions if you need to then but But the authority of the committee is given by the board now. So when we're doing committees, you know, if I want to hear about a certain item, that needs to be like talked to with the board first before it's on a committee. So we shouldn't like one board member shouldn't be able to dictate everything that's on that committee, >> right? Even the chair. >> Things are referred to the committee through the board. Um, and I'll get you in just a second. That's not necessarily how to do things, >> right? Well, that's why I think it starts with a

047general understanding. How do we want to go forward? And I've seen it work different ways, but that's the way it's most effective. I want to just throw one thing out and then we'll get to Andre because you you got your hand up. Um, none of this works if you don't have trust. Because if you have subcommittees, but I'm not going to trust the work that they do. So, I'm going to second guess everything that happens in the meeting that all of that work that we do in the subcommittees is kind of I I hate to use the word a waste because it's not always a waste, but it's to circumvent needing to spend all the time at the meetings going over stuff that you're having that detailed conversation in the subcommittee. And if then you

048have to go back and well, I don't really trust the three people whoever they are on that committee. They didn't ask the questions I'm going to ask. I'm gonna do it all over again. You've negated the whole purpose of having this. So it has to start with a a level of trust that um allows you to put your trust in the people doing the work and if they come back with recommendation yeah you still have a few questions but if you have to go back and do a detailed investigation of everything that had been worked out then that's one of those cases where you probably should have gone committed or >> um Andre I I I think um some people don't understand you know being a part of the public that you still can listen

049to the meeting you know I mean you it's not like just because you're not a part of the committee that you that you can't listen to the meeting you know the meeting is on YouTube which you don't have to watch right away like you may be doing something at the time so you could watch it later was plenty of times where I wasn't able to attend the meeting and I watched it on YouTube after so you know it's it's far far as far far is that not not being able to to to speak at the at the committee meetings and you know being a problem. I think that's a that's that's not really an issue. And another issue I have is you know we cut a lot of staff. You know I think when we

050have long meetings you know we put a lot of strain on a little bit of staff that we have and people don't take that into account a lot of the times. I know I I I you know I don't really um you know, get a chance to talk with with with with the with the with the people who do the the the cameras and stuff like that, but I'm I'm I'm sure they would like to to for us to have a shorter meetings and not to not to drag down like we do sometimes, you know, that I think that's just something that we need to keep in mind when when we're having these meetings, you know. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. I think um I I would like sort of agree in terms

051of the staff the strain that we put on our central office when we request certain things that and I know we're going to get to that exercise of what should be on the committee or not. Um you know we request certain things or we we do things that are not even spoke on committee. So, we want to move that and I don't well I won't throw out things yet because I know you'll miss that but we throw on things that the board has no really say over anyways but yet want to talk about it and that's put a strain on his staff or whoever >> yeah so >> you had a full head of hair when you started well I if you give me a sec I'd like to just ask your opinion Dr. Um,

052as a person who has to make all this work behind the scenes, um, I'm putting you on the spot a little bit, but um, do you have any observations about how things are working in terms of helping you or hindering you in your job? If you don't want to answer that, okay, >> answer that. I mean, because I don't want the money to water because I think it's it's I have my mixing mixed feelings about it because sometimes it can be very helpful and sometimes not. And I don't think Because I think what's what's what's kind of convoluting things because when I look at what's before me when when they have bylaws, you you hit that on the nose earlier when you talked about there has been changes with bylaws based on fixing an issue

053that previous, you know, years was exposed by the board. And when you do that, it all it's all together now. And all the things that's changed convolutes the work of this seat. And I don't think I don't think the board truly understands that. They just want to fix the problem by changing the bylaws because they had that issue in the past. But can't fix that that way in order to make amends, you know. And to me, that's the hardest thing that my staff and I talk about that all the time. What are they doing? Why is this that way? Why are we having to do this? But I'm like, well, because it's in the bylaws, we have to follow it. It may not be the right thing to do, but we have to follow it

054because in the bylaws. So, I think that's really what's confusing, you know, and I mean, I could I could say a little different things, but I've been trying to I we have to follow it, but it's not really the thing you do to kind of get the work done. >> Well, anytime you're dealing with policy or bylaws, you're dealing with the whole issue around the unintended consequences. And that's why I'm a really big believer in you put all the effort into deliberating over the policies over your bylaws. You talk about it, you get informed about it. You you talk with your superintendent, superintendent um shares his views around what's being um recommended so that all that deliberation time devoted to it, you end up with bylaws that have all of the intended consequences and not

055the unintended consequences. When you try to fix a problem and you do it by just changing a word or process or procedure, it could have a whole series of of unintended consequences that you never consume based on the definition of the word you didn't expect to happen. And as you were saying that I wrote intent because what's the intent of the policy is really more important than the language that gets you there especially if well we had this we put this band-aid on to your point but it blocked this or you know so yeah that's why I'm trying to have keep this higher level conversation about what do you want to see um and I've heard so far that the structure of the meetings um the ability for the public to address the subcommittee at

056some point and your topic are going to be on the agenda. It's not like you'll be adding things to the agenda. So, they'll have the chance to do that. Um, there was a strong idea that we ought to figure out how do we get our committees? Is that a board decision? Does it do you give the authority to the chair or is that a board decision? The bylaw should specify that. Who gets on them? Typically, it's the chair that appoints ch subcommittee. There I go again, committees. Um, that's the norm really. There are some alternatives to that but they're not too often. Um so but again if we keep that first expectation what are the high level issues we got to address so that Jodie can help you craft with your staff a policy that

057says it enables us rather than restricts us that if you if a policy is doing nothing but you can't do this you can't do that you can't do that because something happened two years ago or five years ago or 10 years ago you're you're it's like walking through a minefield. There's all these little things, to your point, unintended things a lot of times that keep us from doing our job. And I'd rather you see you start over with a policy that's a halfpage law saying this is why we have subcommittees and then you'll have regulations or you might have sub sub policies, other policies um that might get more specific about how you govern it or how you dec make some of those decisions. But that first policy should we want subcommittees to support the

058work of the board by doing prep work by you know um giving important issues a voice or an opportunity for study to investigate to look at. I don't even like the word investigate necessarily because that's not something boards typically investigate. >> It's research research. >> Y good word. Um and and then from that it helps lay out what those bylaws are going to look like. Well, if if it's to support the board's work, if it's to enhance the board's work, then there's certain things that will fall right through. And and these aren't things written in a vacuum. Jod has well look at the yeah the Farmington here. But you know, there are lots of examples of very um small policies that govern how committees work because it doesn't have to be difficult. Again, you're dealing

059with a whole lot of baggage from a whole lot of years. And so it may take you, you can't go from A to Z and maybe you have to go from A to B and then B to C to get to Z eventually. But the the if you articulate what it is you want, what's your goal? It's going to make it easier to have those bys bring that together. Is any of this resonating? Is this helping in this conversation? >> I think yes. Um, I I'm just, you know, the theme was workshop and I just wanted, you know, you almost started talking about it kind of giving some suggestions and I know that you're not here trying to, you know, put things on on a stone, but just to give us suggestions on how to

060accomplish this because, you know, I read the bylaws when it comes to committees and how they're forming, how they're not forming. To me, it's very clear, black and white. this woman that kindergarten could understand it who has the uh authority and who doesn't have their authority. Literally even states it specifically who does it who that job belongs to and who the job does belong to. It literally specifies it. Um so I didn't think that was ever a question when it was handed to all the members. But I mean again I went through two chairs um and that came out in my very first year right back in January. Um but um yeah, we had a question. I'm sorry. >> Well, I I was just going to say, you know, Jody and I talked about your

061bylaws regarding your committees, and we both said the same thing. It's obvious that they've written a lot. They've modified these bylaws over time to react to things rather than to help give better guidance. you know, if certain things were, I hate to use the word abuse, but if certain practices weren't clear or didn't necessarily meet the expectations of the board, um, you changed the bylaw to fix that, but you were fixing a specific problem rather than looking more globally. Let's let's just create and then, you know, just like who speaks at a committee. Now, there's some flexibility with that. I know when I was a chair of our policy committee um we had a topic and a lot of times I mean how many public members would come to agree to the policy committee couple

062other board members we just have open conversations we didn't bother going through the formality of Robert's rules there's times when a topic like that will allow that there may be times when you have to be more formal if more people come or if we if we start tripping over each other then it probably makes sense let's wait you know what we're not moving this forward like we should unless the chair is going to reinstate proper rules for the rest of the meeting or something, but that's something that you you have to make work. Um, and I'm not sure that it needs to be universal within each committee that everybody does it exactly the same way, but it gets back to do we trust each other to do it the right way or do we have

063to have more restrictions or more regulation in our bylaws to make sure that it's done correctly? And I'm not sure I have the answer for that for you tonight, but again, we're trying to give you things to think about so that you can craft your policy to meet your needs. Now, um I guess I'll throw this out one more time just in this conversation and I do want to start to talk about what you're currently doing in subcommittees. >> Yeah. In this discussion is about referring to the full board. A significant percentage of agendas of my committee meetings are not the board. Not referring to the board. This discussing something and it's not creating action for the board. >> They're not actionable items >> and that well still but in your report you would still

064say we looked at this and here's a synopsis of what we saw. So that's how you can share that knowledge with the rest of the board. I think we were probably talking more about the opposite of committees not necessarily running rampant and deciding whatever they want to talk about other than they're representing the work of the board. So the work is referred to them by the board. >> It's like you know academic progress you know issues that came up starting last spring and we're trying to start with beginning of the year or two which we haven't been doing. you can get into more details. >> Um the superintendent can report more detail at the sub >> Yes. >> committee level. >> Um and that and but then you the chair's report to the board would

065say, you know, this is what we talked about. Here's a couple areas that we looked at. Yes. >> Etc. And then so you distilled that down for the board. >> I just want to be clear. >> Sure. So now let's talk about your standing committees. How many we have kept them safe? We have kept them brief. But >> you have a policy committee. I know that. >> Yes. >> Current policy and personnel. >> Sorry. >> Or is the policy committee acting this committee the whole right now? Okay. >> It's no policy and personnel or one committee. >> Policy personnel. >> I think that's how you spell it. Spell check's not working. all. >> Uh yeah, >> finance. >> Put that one over here cuz I think that's going to hard work. >> Yeah. >> Facilities.

066Facilities. >> Facilities >> and instruction and support services. >> Instruction and support services. >> Yes. Guess the question I'd ask. How's this work for you? Do you feel as a board that the current structure is supporting the work of the board and the district or can it sometimes get in the way of that? Hello everybody. Apologize for my late arrival. I went to the career fair with my college and career fair. I'm just popping on and um hearing this question. Um we we on the policy committee were drafting definitions and everything for the committees and we had discussed separating policy and personnel and having personnel the committee as a whole since the state has made it illegal to have an executive session with people outside the committee even if they're board members. So we thought

067that would be best and we had defined everything and we were ready to start going into actually defining the committee structures and all of a sudden this meeting and stepped on the meeting that was going to happen that finished discussion of this before bringing it to the full board. I don't know if we talked about that before because I wasn't here. >> There was no meeting hall today except for this meeting. We discussed this >> Nick Nick and Joey and I discussed this meeting three weeks ago. Wait, I waited on Nick to confirm a date that he was available. He's available this date. I set the committee agenda. I told you prior to the policy committee that we were having this committee tonight and then I called the meeting for tonight over two weeks ago.

068Two weeks ago actually called the name tonight. If you guys had questions about it, you could have asked about it. >> Right. But but but meanwhile the committee has done a lot of work, >> right? And since and since we're discussing this um did we get any any information in the packet about the committee definitions and all this stuff that are we ready to discuss tonight what the committee work that was been done around the committees that's one of the committee's charge and policy and personnel um because because bylaws and policy are two different things. The bylaws govern the board. They shouldn't really govern the superintendent or nothing about that. And I would like to see the Connecticut Associations of Boards of Education work in conjunction with the board to develop the board bylaws and

069work with the superintendent maybe to develop policies relevant to the superintendent. But these are our bylaws that govern us. And as far as going back in the past and recurring, there's a saying that people who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Now, there's some very important suggestions inside those drafted bylaws, including the simple change of one word from may to shall because all board members should have a voice. Yes, we did. We're doing it in reaction to something in the past, but that's a past that could never ever repeat itself. We can never never have a board again that shuts out people from speaking at a committee meeting on a hundreds of millions of dollars of budgets which have got us into our current situation. So we are yes we are being

070reactive. We're being reactive. We got the state breathing down our neck because we weren't reactive enough in the past. So this is work to prevent anything from happening in the future. I do not want to repeat the past. So we learn from the past and we move on and change things from the past that were not working that were clearly able to be abused. Thank you. >> Thank you, Joe. All right. So what I want to try to do is identify areas that the committees are currently doing. I'm trying to get a sense of how much of this stuff and again not reflecting if you've been doing it a certain way doesn't mean you're bad. But because I said at the beginning, there was a vacuum of of different things within the district. So, somebody

071had to make decisions that maybe would typically not be done by a committee or a subcommittee. Um, and so I'm just trying to articulate better how you can set a charge to each committee of this is what your purview is. Um, you know, I'm trying to think, well, New Haven had one for uh field trips. They had a subcommittee of their board, a committee of their board that did nothing but approve field trips. And they met once a month and they approved dozens of field trips and they realized that's that's not really governing. That's managing. So they what they did was establish an ad hoc committee on governance and they would reviewed all of their bylaws and said that's really not a job for the board of education. That should be articulated in policy and

072given to the superintendent or his staff to decide on what's appropriate, what's not. that that isn't something that board should be voting on every time somebody want to do a trip to a museum or something. >> So, let me chime in. >> Yes, >> I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna take a risk here and make a suggestion as to one sub one committee you should one standing committee you should definitely have >> a policy committee. One of your major responsibilities of the board is to adopt policy to ensure that policies are up to date mandated policies are in place. They follow all legal requirements. They meet your community's expectations and and mores and norms and and they and they say what you what your beliefs are around how this district operates and and serves your children.

073Every one of your every one of your children. So you should have a policy a standing policy committee with nothing else but policy. So we got one >> also that that field trip thing out of state field trip that goes on their instruction servants that you know if you want that that's what they do one of the things that get brought to them it's out of state if I'm understanding correctly correct trade that's when they >> that's not unusual >> voting on all field trips is unusual but some companies do that it's not helpful their stand out is fatal >> and Jody and I probably disagree on this. I would argue that it's not even critical that you do that because your policy says that they're going to an area where there's stress or if

074there's a cost involved or whatever then you could legislate that in policy and and set it aside. But I acknowledge that boards many boards if not most of them do vote all out of state field trips. So I'm not going to argue with you. That's fine. >> What else does that committee do right now? Anything >> instruction support services? >> Well, well, I was going to start a policy policy. Okay. Um, they've gone over the bylaw like uh the not bylaws like the series. So, 3000 series. >> Well, I that's part of I can't see how you would do that any other way. >> Yeah. >> Received a minor correction out of state and overnight. Okay. wellness. That is also very common and putting it at the committee level actually probably is a really good

075thing because otherwise you're putting them out for the board and I don't know does that go on like a consent agenda and um you still vote on it or is that just the committee approves and lists to the full board and they don't have the consent agenda yet? >> we would like one. I'm benefit it is at least being facilitated through my committee through the board whole board for so we are saving time being more efficient already hopefully getting more efficient. Oh, just to clarify, when when you when you're when you have the full board meeting on the agenda is a is a report from this committee and you just give the list of approved or field trips that you were pres presented to about whatever and you're recommending you approve these field trips. >>

076Yeah, but that's not for a vote yet. It's still unlisted as new business. >> Yeah, we go to new business gets to that point where >> Yeah. Um, Aisha has her light on and then we'll get to >> Hi. Yeah. I just wanted uh Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um, I just wanted some clarity on something. Um, I wanted to ask about FOI. Um, under FOI, a board member who is not a committee member is considered a member of the public. So, if you're allowed to speak as part of the discussion as a board member, are all other community members that are there present that day allowed to speak as part of the discussion? >> Yeah. My my understanding of this again I'm not an attorney but my understanding is

077that um in a committee where where you have three board members on a committee that they're they are it's their meeting and that others attending are under the category of the public. So other board members um community members what whatever is good for community members is good for the other board members who are not on the committee. They're treated the same way. They're they're under the um legal term public >> and in our bylaws we historically have allowed them has been >> so just so Jody just so I can understand what you just said. So the general public that attends that same said meeting, if other board members are allowed to speak at that committee meeting, are other community members that attend the board meeting allowed to speak on the subject as well as part

078of the discussion? >> Yes or no? >> Yes, >> they are. Okay. Thank you. It's it's kind of almost backwards from your question would be that if the public is allowed to speak, board members are allowed to speak and if public if there's no place in your meeting for no public comment, then those other board members meeting members of the public would not. But I think that gets back to back to the rules. >> No, but that's separate. But but public comment is separate though, right? That's separate from what I'm talking about. >> That's separate from what I'm talking about. If on your agenda there there's an opportunity on your committee agenda as a as your if there's a if there's a section devoted to public comment that's where your public would be able to

079speak on the topic on on the topic on the agenda topic and and your board members who are not on the committee and your public are under under the guise of public and they would be able to speak at that point. >> Right. Yeah. I understand that. But the the public in itself though that shows up in person is not allowed to be like a part of the conversation throughout the entire meeting is what I'm asking. >> That's correct. >> Right. >> Okay. That's that's what I wanted to know. Okay. Thank you. >> Um our Bible our bottle is allow the chair decide who gets to speak from the con from the board only. >> Okay. So that is another area you want to explore. What what should the rule be? And I would say

080probably for all committ >> Yeah. I would just Well, we're talking about changing the Bible. >> And my my only caveat there would be to to just have that vetted by legal >> to see if that's a you can want to do that, but if it's not legal, if it's not, just fine. Christine, I see your hand up. I just wanted to comment that at least with Jod's interpretation that just opens up a can of worms and um when things were going at least when I was chair that was part of the goal was to have the committee of the three members there ask questions and report to the board everything that the committee had discussed and voted on in a summary so that That way during the regular meetings it's more efficient. These were

081the questions asked and answered than anything else. Um I I would stay afraid from uh I always think about employee burnout. If meetings are long and there's a 8 a.m. start day the following day. Um if there's too many committees, we're already a distressed school district. Adding more committees and more workloads. That was part of the logic, at least when I was chair, to consolidating and trying to mirror successful school districts who had significantly less um standing committees. Uh but I I would stay afraid um with regards to um opening committee meetings to members of the public who are not elected or appointed to on the board to start to implement. I mean that as board members we should have that communication with comm uh members of the public outside of our meetings so that

082way that we're getting to know the community members values not during our meetings. I mean it's it's a a balance of actually promoting a district where people want to work at and not feel like they're going to work extremely long hours for repetitive and non-efficient um meetings. And we need to stay very focused and by we I mean the board needs to be very focused that what they're accomplishing on a committee is actually going to be aimed towards the improvement of student outcomes and educational opportunities for the students. Um, and so I I would refrain from public comment on the committee level because it hasn't been vetted yet. And and and committee community members that do attend on the committee level, they can be absolutely free and welcome to discuss with board members after the

083fact. And if board members don't want to meet with members of the community afterwards, that's something the community can remember when it's election time. Thank you. I I guess I would only add that depending on what the topic is, there might be a program or something that you're discussing at the committee level that has a direct impact on the public and you want to get the public's opinion on what are the implications for this issue. you know, something maybe it's involving something more of a social nature or um something that might be slightly controversial and you know there might be concern in the public that might be a more appropriate place to get some of that feedback. So I think some of it situational depending on what the topic is whether or not you have

084just you know and there's nothing that says it has to be five minutes. It might be you know for public comment subcommittee maybe it's two minutes um and you are posting your agenda with what's on there. So um you know there's that possibility but I think some of it I and again this goes way back um when AIDS first became an issue districts were coming up we were scared what policy do you have on something when like bloodborne pathogens nobody really understood it doctors were still trying to figure out so like co was a couple years ago we're still trying to figure out what it means um we had a subcommittee meeting meet with as many of the medical professionals in our community as we and I think even maybe a couple members of the

085clergy because there were some other social aspects to that we wanted to make sure we heard. So we had a much more open conversation as we deliberated a policy knowing there was a lot of of community interest in what was being discussed. We might not do that when we're looking at a new science textbook for example in a in a um in a um instructional committee. So I think some of that really is situational depending on what the issue is. And I think that at the beginning of that meeting the the board or the committee itself through the leadership of the chair would say um what are we going to do on this topic? Do we open it for conversation or do we require that that be part of that public comment at the very

086beginning? And that's still a place for them to have that conversation. But um and as I say, I've seen it in that one there were quite a few members of the public that were concerned because again at that time no one really understood what was happening. Um and I I remember one a couple well maybe 10 years ago I walked into a district. The issue sounded minor. Um they somebody came up with a statistic that all of the fire drills were happening in the mornings and the kindergarten parents were upset because the afternoon kindergarteners never had a fire drill. like 30 of them showed up at a board meeting ready to argue and nobody on the board even had a clue about what was happening. So they had to sort of address that and in

087that particular case they created a separate hearing just for that with the superintendent plus the superintendent had a chance to go back and research because one of the comments made here was that doesn't allow people to be prepared. You just have open conversation superintendent might not even be aware of a certain thing. This gave the superintendent the opportunity when we have that public hearing, I can report on what we know as facts. And in that case, it was true there had not been any afternoon fire drills. So, they changed the schedule. And they said, "From now on, we'll make sure they're adequately." They didn't even really need to rise to the board level, but I think the scrutiny of the board hearing that made sure it happened quicker rather than later. So um yeah, now

088I'm I guess I'm still the personnel you're talking about treating that board as a committee as a whole if as I understand it because that's one other than the fact that they don't both start in peace. I'm not I don't see a connection. Uh so this goes off with the board. I think one of the reasons was that um for the session for purpose of executive session um yeah so this one is dealing more specifically and there may be some policy issues that relate to personnel but they're the broader more general discussions that aren't individually it's not about you shouldn't have to have that conversation >> like person would be a a topic that may fall under a personnel subcommittee But that that's really in my view for full board discussion. Other than I know

089you spent you're spending a a huge amount of time just reviewing policies and stuff which is what policy committees do. Is there anything else under this list that we would think maybe I I wouldn't have thought so, but I wanted to just clarify that instruction and support services outside of the field trips. Um, what are some of the things that you would discuss in that >> that we've been discussing? >> Yeah, maybe the other thing policy maybe I'm stretching a little bit. So just one thing the policy committee might consider is is um not recommending surveys to the community to gather information. I know the issues come up around letting the public um help inform the board's work. I think sometimes when it comes to policy, there may be opportunities for the policy committee to

090establish or to determine whether or not a survey is appropriate and work with the administration in putting out a survey around you're doing a dress code policy. You want to survey your community about their thoughts around dress code. Um doing other policies that may be impactful for the community. Maybe that would be one other area that would be outside of just simply developing or recommending policies. It would be perhaps um looking at vehicles for or considering vehicles for community input something that just I'm just stretching. >> So having the policy well not a bad thought. I'm wondering if that's more the the bylaw on the committee saying the board can um use various means to solicit community feedback. >> Yep. Good. So vehicles from community feedback and that might be any committee, >> right? Yeah.

091And it's still I like that because it's the board level and not at the policy level. >> Um curriculum. Yeah. provide instruction and support services having an understanding the relationship between curriculum and instruction and all of those things learning part the board um >> um we've had um code of conduct come um for approval. >> Code of conduct code of conduct. >> Just that goes together. >> Update on special education. >> Updates about special education. I'm looking at different Now, um, does the the committee on support services ever look at individual cases or make decisions or review anything um, outside of like this broader level >> like specific like if there's like a grievance or anything or >> um, well potentially although that would probably be personnel through the Um, in grievance, you really don't

092care much about it unless it passes the superintendent's desk and and is referred to the board. Otherwise, don't typically get much on you. >> They do a lot of data >> factchecking. So, if there's an issue with suspension, so >> we want to hear they want data on suspension. there's um absenteeis and what so specific data sources which impacts instruction which is which is so that they do a we do a lot of that. Well, we're starting to do a lot of that which is a good thing in a way but just really summarizing how that looks and what that's what's that's all about. Is that done in a sort of planned organized or is it every once in a while saying hey what's going on with this or that >> it's usually like referred

093for member might request that information. >> Yeah. Um really yeah it is referred and but also they are working like that was just mentioning that they are working on getting something a regular standing kind of like getting a report as well let's have a calendar you know every January we'll hear this every February you'll hear that that's a that's good way of >> like every board but every monthly meeting I will provide a list of data sources that are relevant to what the board has been discussing in in meetings and things that we feel are I feel that's important for the board to to have. So that's coming forward being able to look at district enrollment, look at, you know, um the number of special ed bilingual students in the district. So, we have those,

094you know, um, data sources that's going to be coming probably we could do it daily if we choose to do it that way, but we're going to try to minimize at least once a month what type of data is needed so that we don't have to bring it up meetings unless there's a question about the data source that we can bring. So, so again, those are the types of things to minimize a lot of the you asking about certain things, but get it to them in a timely manner that they're to from that point. Uh, you know, have the information they need, keep moving and not not, you know, bogged down a committee meeting or board meeting with those questions because some so some data you you can't look at weekly anyway. Maybe you're not

095going to want to look at your discipline data weekly, but maybe you want to look at it twice a year, mid year, make corrective changes, address the issues that you're seeing, and then look at the end of the year, see if those corrective measures have improved. One of the questions I guess I'd have and not specifically but throwing it out there um if board members can just ask whatever they want through the board to the superintendent um then they're in essence individually instructing the superintendent on action and um that's fine if this document is readily available you know hey I'd like to see this the data on absentee for the last six months well that's here. Although you might have to spend some time getting somebody to massage it to bring it to the board.

096But it's one thing, but it's like I'd like a report on this and there is no report on that. So, somebody has to stop their work and do that. That's when I start to get a little concerned that if nine board members are each asking of that, um, then something else isn't going to get done. And um I have often given the advice to superintendents that if I get a question like that um we're going to talk to the chair, we'll put it on the agenda and if the board votes to make that my work, it becomes my work because it's again if it's one thing a document exists like a copy of it or this data exists and and without a lot of effort we can get a report on it. I think that's

097what superintendents want to do. They want to make sure that you have the information necessary. But if I want you true story, this actually did happen. Um board member wanted to see the nurses incident reports of all eight elementary schools in the district for the last six months. Now there's laws about just giving unredacted information to begin with. So somebody had to redact out six months worth of eight elementary schools nurses incident reports. and their policy was even more restrictive because it said those responses had to be within 24 or 48 hours of the request which was insane because they could not do it. The board acknowledged that is not fair to the superintendent because that was a huge amount of work and it's relatively well elementary schools not real small district but it was

098small enough there weren't a lot of people in central office with nothing to do to stop it and do that. So they acknowledge that in a situation like that it should be put on the board agenda and then if requested by the board it becomes a superintendent's job because he works for the collective board not nine individuals. In this particular case frankly the board member actually had a good concern um during it was a really bad budget year. They were um cutting tooth and nail everywhere and they actually had the idea we have eight lunch schools. Why don't we have four nurses? We'll have them in the morning in one school and the afternoon in the other and then we'll just see how it works and this board member's question was how's it working? Now

099that would be a very valid board member question. We made this decision. Is it working? But instead he said I want all this data and he wasn't a health care professional. He was an attorney. I want to see all this data and I'm going to investigate and judge whether or not something's happening. and he would have made life if he just said to the superintendent this is what I'm trying to figure out the appropriate data would have been would have been made available. So I think that's why it's really good practice. It it maybe in the subcommittee at least the committee is agreeing that this is kind but if the that work is being fed through the board anyway as it should be then that question would come up at that time. Well if you

100want us to do this um what are we going to need in order and really it's let's make sure we're asking the right question because he wasn't asking the question he really wanted to have answered. John. >> Yes. Um I'll try to save us a little time. We have done significant amount of work on the policy committee. Um we've actually def tried to define we're ready to move it to the full board as I stated before. So I I think it will be beneficial to hear what we got to see if we actually got a framework that makes sense rather than try to reinvent the wheel on every single committee. If I if I may, I would like to start with we which one did we just go through? Um, we got here we defined

101>> we're on instruction support services right now. >> Instruction. Okay. Instruction and support services. We defined the committees. We defined what a standing committee was, what a special committee was. Um, what the ad hoc committee was. We defined we separated out the personnel committee from the policy committee. And we're on ISS now. Let me see if I could get to that. I want to give you one moment, please. ISS. Okay. The instruction support service committee is a standing committee of the board of education responsible for overseeing the district's academic programs and the support services that contribute to student success and well-being. The purpose is to ensure that instructional practices, student services, and support programs align with the district's mission, education goals, and legal requirements. Responsibilities include but are not limited to review and recommend curriculum

102instruction program changes. Review any related contracts, monitor the teacher and student achievement data through and instructional effectiveness. Oversee student support services including special education, counseling and mental health services, health and wellness programs, English language learner services. Review policies related to instruction and support and student services. Ensure compliance with state and federal education mandates and address any items referred to it by the full board. Membership is typically composed of two to three members appointed by the board chair may include district administrators. Meetings held regularly monthly or as needed. Open to the public in accordance with open meeting laws. Agendas and minutes are documented and shared with the full board. Reporting. The committee represents the committee presents findings and recommendations to the full board for discussion and action. Now these were defined on each and every committee

103suggested. There was five committees suggested separating out the personnel from the others for the time being so we can move forward and have something since we're under this time pressure to develop our committees our definition thereof. And I believe we got a good framework to start with and it's kind of troubling that you guys don't have this framework in your hands to comment on yet. you don't block before, but uh can you just repeat what you said the purpose of this was for um because you already had we're trying to make sure that there's some understanding at the broadest level what the need for the subcommittees are the what the work of the committees should do um and start to talk about the framework by which everyone agrees it should be done >> figing some

104things out differently That's right. >> Now, may I interject? Did anything you just hear sound crazy and out of the realm of what we should be doing? Or does it seem like the committee has a firm grasp on what we should be doing and how we should be forming these committees? And is it coloring outside the lines at all? Is there something you would caution us against implementing? Well, I think the purpose of tonight was to hear from everybody to get a sense so that when we go into this process and again, you know, we also have to be of mind that JOD is under contract with the Bridgeport Public Schools to be helping the district come up with these policies. So, um, you know, a lot of work's being done. I And again, I

105hear what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. It's kind of hard when you're reading it to get a full sense. I didn't hear anything objectionable, but um this was more >> about a 30,000 >> conversation to um allow everybody to have a sort of a a voice in this in terms of what's working, what's not working to get a broader sense, which should still with what now that you've preparing to give this to the board. >> It may in fact answer many of the questions they had, but we're trying to see that they get articulated in a way that made sense. Absolutely. And I do not disagree with one thing you said. How however there was a committee meeting which the full board was invited to participate and speak at which the chair

106was in attendance of and if I may ask the chair to send you all of these to see if you have any problems with anything that anything that might tweak a legal thing of any of the work we've done thus far because the committee I believe is ready to move forward and to bring it to the full board for revisions, suggested revisions and what have you. So we could finally have defined committees as we were supposed to for a long time because I honestly if the full board wants input, they could give input at any committee meeting. They could give input when it's presented to the full board for approval. And then >> this is what this is that's what it's for. >> That's what this meeting is for. Joe, what I'd suggest is that

107um you take notes because it sounds like much of what you heard, if not everything you've heard tonight, is in alignment with what you're you're working on. Um, but you might pick up something new that somebody else is commenting on. I see Andre's got his hand up again. >> But and and again, I did I would also the other thing was that part of the conversation was how much of the work that is currently being being done in committees has alternative ways of being done that don't involve committees. Um, but that's that that's where we were starting to work on this Andre and then I really tried to refocus this. >> You have to add on to this. >> Okay. Yeah. I just I just wanted to I just wanted to tell Joe, you know,

108not that know I think that he missed the beginning he missed the beginning of the meeting, you know, so he may he he may, you know, he's kind of talking about stuff that we already talked about, but no, nobody's saying that that that the that the committees aren't handling business. They're just saying that the committees are, you know, taking too long to handle business. I guess that's kind of like a little short way of saying it, I guess. But no, but no, Joe, nobody's saying that that that they're not handling business. Everybody's doing what they're supposed to do. They're handling policies that, you know, stuff is getting business is getting handled. But we just got to be a little bit quicker about how we do business and a little bit more, you know, uh uh

109on on target. And a big a big part of of of that is is is kind of, you know, getting our our committees a little bit more on on tune and and and you know, on point. So let's talk about >> I just want to before you start, I just want to thank you. I heard about the audio unfortunately and this type of structure works terribly and I apologize for that. Um heard enough to agree with you but um I I I'd like if we do something like this again to really sort of make it in person so that we can really hear each other and see each other. Um it makes it a little easier. Jody, go ahead. >> And also if you want to bring food to these meetings too just just lobbying

110a little bit. Um, again, I know this is a trip wire and a minefield, but I'm going to say it not with the idea that's going to change our discussion or but but I think again looking at even what's in the bylaw related to instructional instruction and support services, there are areas that I would from my perspective look at some of this and say, is this board work or is it administration work? And and I'll give you three areas that my view of being the trans my view not yours perhaps that this is these are administrative tasks reviewing any related contracts to me that's something that should be assigned to administration to review contracts um that and and that administrator will ensure that the attorneys are reviewing that contract and informing the superintendent's recommendation related

111to that. I know there's baggage. I know there's history. I get all that. But but I want I want to go into a whole different discussion. That's my perspective. Another another area would be evaluating professional development plans for for education staff. I mean that's an administration's job to you. I hired the superintendent to evaluate the professional development, ensure it's effective and and people are learning to do the right things to educate our children to the highest levels. Overseeing student support services. I don't want a board of education overseeing student support services. Should they be informed about the adequacy of those programs and Minnesota programs and absolutely should they be presented about those programs and what they do and what they cost the the return on investment all board stuff but overseeing those programs that's that

112to me that's superintendent job. So that so there are areas I think this these are very specificly drawn out charges or or descriptions of these committees typically they're less so when when I've seen them >> I have another out for things that this committee has covered extensively okay and PTS spending >> PTO and PTS the spending and overseeing some of their things which is not we've talked about that extensibly in trainings and that's not >> right not in the wheelhouse. Um, I see Christine and I'm here again. Christine, >> uh, I was gonna say, uh, something else, but I do want to agree with what I believe Jennifer just stated regarding the pack and PTSOs. Um I I I not I I'm very certain that a a lot of the times the board is not

113focused on board related tasks and what is the role of the board. I won't lie to you. If there was something posted in the portal, I didn't get a chance to review it. But Jody, is there something regarding like best practices or how to distinguish what is a board function versus what is a um what's an administrative function because I think the line becomes very blurred and has historically always been blurred as to what is each role and and what is each function and that causes a a lot of confusion as well as it it decreases the board's efficiency to get the business of the district done. Um >> to clar we don't have anything on portal tonight just so you know >> I'm sorry I wanted to clarify that we don't have anything on

114the portal tonight but I know that Jod and um Nick have stuff for us. There there are things that that um I know Nick has and and I have as well regarding um superintendent respons roles and responsibilities and board roles and responsibilities. So there are materials we have that that we can um certainly share with with you. Yeah, a lot of it has to do with the through the evaluation process and and and and some of those materials. But but that's a good point. It's something that um does all the time with boards superintendent >> ros this past year. >> Yeah. >> And so >> I think that's um something we should go back on especially if the bylaws bylaws are being uh discussed or considered to be changed. Uh I I do want to

115just pivot quickly because I I I have an inquiry regarding and and I understand when board members have questions regarding certain things, but my concern is and the way used to function is if I'm the chair, I work with the superintendent. Hey, I want to talk about test scores. Did we improve? How can we improve them? Oh, those test scores aren't available. And I would know as chair to save that for a later date to bring up or you calendar for a later board meeting or committee meeting. Um my my question on that topic is what to do when in you know an individual board member may have an inquiry to something and want that to be a topic but it's not the appropriate time. Um the concern is that this is happening more on

116the meeting level. And it it just feels like sometimes um a board member is acting unilaterally and making decisions uh in real time. And from my understanding, it should be more of a collaborative um discussion with the board or at least the board chair and the superintendent regarding timing. So that way we can actually have information and data to really digest. So I get I'm trying to frame a qu answer to your question. Um it is not unusual for someone to approach the chair and say I'm interested in doing this or talking about this at a future meeting and then it is the role of the chair and the superintendent to sit down together and figure out where's the appropriate place to put that on the agenda. Um is it next meeting? is it we're

117we planned on doing report in April and it's January or February so we're going to put that off till April and that way everybody has time to put the material together the information um but I what I'm going to say and saying this carefully is as long as that communication is back to the board member here's what we're going to do I think most board members are going to be comfortable with that I think it's the blind side of somebody saying I move that add this to the agenda tonight. That can get troublesome if that happens. And I don't know that it does. >> Um because then nobody has time to really think through what are we talking about? And and s the superintendent probably least of all because >> I could tell you I

118could give you a report. I could do all this if I knew that you wanted it. Um it might preclude but other than that I'm not sure where that fits. And to Christine's point, um, a lot of times, and I completely spoke of this earlier, is he's receiving I need this, you know, and then he has to he or his team has to come up with it and, you know, email it out and he'll usually CC the full board. I need this data on X, Y, and Z. And then, you know, a week later, he'll email it out to us. And I'm like, what is this? You didn't ask for this, but apparently somebody asked for it, right? And so in and and that's kind of to Christine's point and Saturday meetings sometimes I would

119say we don't ever I don't think the board at the meeting say we need this right now want to know since that's getting right now but we do individuals do does uh we do request it for you know referral to committee or the next superintendent report um >> and and that gets back to the superintendent being comfortable saying this is beyond the scope of just pulling out a document. it is going to involve 20 hours of somebody's time or whatever. I'm going to have to put someone on it and this is what they won't be able to accomplish. If the board wants this data, we'll be happy to provide it. But it's not that we're at the beck and call of nine different individuals that the board says because he works for the collect board

120who makes decisions through voting. The board votes to make that operator's work then that becomes his work. That's a hard one because sometimes it is information that's readily available and and that's like almost a case by case thing of when it when does it become a request? Maybe it's a burdensome request but it's still reasonable or does it become something more? He has to be able to let you know when you've crossed that line and something more and we have to for this to happen. We have to use resources that we didn't plan on or whatever. But or we might have to hire something or pay pay for something to have this done. That shouldn't be the ability of nine any one of nine to do that. That that that sometimes rises to the level

121of a board decision. But I think it was it's definitely fair to say we never assume it should be provided to not because unless something you had the paperwork right in front of you, you're not going to have Albert. >> Now you say that and Miss Perry says something like that. I really don't like when something we know that we talk about this things are last minute as request. I'm not go with that. Why? Because sometime our staff let's see request one of the board members or the chair ask for something for the next meeting or last minute or few hours before the meeting. I'm not agree with that. Why? Because the reason we have to discuss we have to read it to be sure to bring it to the committee or bring it to

122the whole football. Second our every staff they have a lot of things to do. So sometime they have to stop what they're doing, put it on the side, be behind the work to put us and bring us what we need. And I I I really don't like that. I don't need that soon where we talk about this. Let's see we have a meeting tonight and then it's a 5:00 and we have the know our information 3 or 4:00 and I'm like okay we have the table we have table because we don't have the time. I this is the thing that I I don't I don't know things happen three or four hours before >> or one of the chairs asked for information less of say 48 hours you know so I already spoke with Mr.

123I said you have to do something that the same way we um post in on in Kitty Kirk >> 48 hours if the board member don't send that 48 hours and you send it in 24 hours and 20 hours 10 hours they're not because I know our staff is doing a lot of thing with Dr. very and I don't like things to be behind. You know, we I know our staff, they do amazing job. They always there on top. They never say no to us, but guess what? They're human just like us. So, I mean, I always say that >> and that that raises another question because um my assumption is that the questions are going either through the chair to the superintendent or to the superintendent. >> So, direct staff members. >> That is

124not necessarily a good practice. >> No. um to one person unless Dr. He says, "No, I've heard that." Um, he if you had a specific question, he he could say, "For that specificity, I recommend you talk to someone and so I'll let him know you're going to call, but that's his position on whether you talk to another staff member or not." He needs to know what you're what you need to know so that he is prepared to help you move. And it isn't even I need to know this. It's really what is it you're trying to accomplish or what is it that you're worried about? let me find data that will help you understand and that's he can't know that those questions are arising if you go into staff you know unless they come back

125in saying I got a call from Mr. Trager and he wanted blah blah blah blah blah and I dropped everything that I provided it. But if you didn't know that then you're wondering why didn't he get his other work done because he was doing something else for somebody else. So I there should be a protocol in place for questions and it can be different different districts but a district the size of Bridgeport it shouldn't be just do whatever you want. I mean there should be some control over who talks to who. It's not that you're not allowed to ask the question. It's just that you have to ask the question through the appropriate channels. And there's a former superintendent. I'm I'm betting you agree. >> I big Christine, your hand is up again. Oh, actually,

126you know, Christine, I'm sorry. Robert's had his hand up like three or four times and I keep jumping over him, so I'm going to ask him to speak and then I'll get to you. I apologize. Yeah, just given that this is my committee and I sort of was hoping that when I was out of the room you'd wait until I came back, but um we're not dealing with a lot of contracts anymore. So, I want to be clear. I I don't know why that was on your list. >> No, it's on the list that um I guess the polic Oh, okay. I did have a problem before. >> I didn't know where that came from and I'm thinking I'm not dealing with contracts. >> It's not what we're dealing with in my committee. Um >>

127well that good question was only what do you do in the committee and that seemed to be one of the things that was under discussion but it wasn't necessar in fact I think it's not really appropriate that made that comment but I was thinking we don't um so yeah you're going to keep >> yeah I just >> I thought okay I thought okay well so I want to say that and then Um I I just I don't disagree and I we did I did hear in the prior trainings about PAC PTSO and Albert's now left the room so I wanted to say this in front of Albert. Albert has a a huge passion obviously for PAC PTSO because of his own personal history. Um but we are backing away from our involvement that it was

128a huge mess last year that we inherited mid year. Um because the money wasn't being spent. And so that was what we were primarily looking at was why isn't the money being spent? Um, and now what we were trying to do was to figure that out and make sure systems were set up to ensure that it was being spent and that it was so that we ended the year one spending as much as needed to be spent because it had ramifications for the next year and two um setting it up so that we started the next year outright and we have and hopefully that's the end of our great >> you know and to the extent that he's a resource because of his extensive experience. That involvement is sort of not my committee as much

129as his >> He's an asset. Um so there is now s there are now systems in place. It's being handled extraordinarily well by the administration. I'm hoping that we're not that sort of like >> so as we >> starting right >> as we talked about at the beginning of the meeting there were vacuums and sometimes boards or committees had to come in and take the place of to fill that vacuum but that vacuum no longer exists. >> I think that's fairly accurate description which agrees I think. Yes. So we're now trying to >> so if we talk about our wish if we talk about a wish list of what committee should be doing we don't want that >> right we are we are we are avoiding that um because it it has been fixed um

130hopefully and we don't have to be involved um it you know other than >> okay so now I have Christine I do agree we do agree on that one and we have hopefully taken the proper steps and it's the administration that's dealing with it now as it should be. Um, and the board is is uninvolved. Chop one up. Good. Christine Roberts. I I just have an inquiry especially as you're bringing up assets or or passion. Um, my inquiry is regarding I'm just going to create a hypothetical so no one can feel a particular type of way. But if there's a particular agenda item and let's say um the CFO has made some recommendations but then one board member hypothetically decides to put forward a a specific job for elimination and that's not what's been recommended.

131It's not been was discussed and it's happening real time during a committee meeting. Uh do you have any points with regard to that? I I my concern for the board going forward um is going off the rails um and and not taking the time for whoever is the superintendent or whoever's the CFO um and the administrative leadership's uh considerations and recommendations going forward and on the committee level um making specific targets and attacks because in the past and I know this is about moving forward but I I I remember being told, "Oh, it's one particular board member." But I I've seen in, you know, hindsight, right, that there are a lot of um problems with board members u threatening individuals on their specific jobs or talking about um employees in their positions being eliminated. Um

132adding things to on a committee level that wasn't uh suggested or advised by a leadership. And I I just want to know what to do in those situations because it'll be good to know. >> Again, from from my experience, um again, these issues are board issues, board decisions. So, um again, when my previous district, there was a finance committee. the finance committee. Let's just talk about the budget process, the the full board, the as a superintendent, I would I would do um my I refer to as a drop in run. I would um there was be one night in in January where I would um share with the full board my budget presentation and it would talk about programs and my my goals and goals of the district board goals and identify where my recommendations

133the superintendent recommendations for the budget and then and then I would provide the board um my budget plan and then and And the board would say o over the next four weeks or five weeks, the finance committee will review the superintendent's recommended budget um object code by object code, line by line to make recommendations to the full board as to um it its recommendations on adopting the board's budget. And so it would make it would it would it would probably change some of my numbers. It would cut the electricity account. It may change make recommendations for staffing changes. But it would be recommendations that would go to the full board for consideration when the board comes to adopt the budget that then it would then move on to the legislative council for its or to

134the mayor's office for its consideration etc. and become the board's budget. So there may be recommendations from the finance committee, but they're only recommendations that would then be vetted through the full board in determining what its budget is going to be as a board budget recommendation and then it would come out. That's how that would proceed. And then the board would have to be really careful not to and the superintendent would have to be careful at this point not to not to identify specific people in the budget, but just talk about those things more generally. like we we'll make a reduction in the uh mental health um staffing or we'll make a recommendation to reduce one high school teacher or five paras or you make those kinds of broad recommendations but they would be vetted

135by the full board as it adopts considers adopting its full budget and and ultimately would have to get a majority vote to get to go through. So, some of those recommendations may be um um considered and and and part of the board's full adoption or they may be um as was often the case with my budgets um that the board would vote against um some recommendations I made and in adopting his budget. Can I just ask um so can a committee in the middle of committee add an item to the and that that's that's the I think that's kind of what um Christine was alluding to is like that by individual >> um well it's still a public >> adding a specific individual or role that wasn't previously discussed or vetted >> item added to

136a committee >> well um usually committee meeting would begin with Are there uh the committee chair asking with with the administrator at the meeting as well saying are there any additions that you'd like to make to this agenda? Any additions to this agenda? And and and the superintendent may say, "Yeah, just something came up recently. I'd like to add I think it'd be good to add this to the agenda um tonight." Um so it would be added to the agenda or or the chair may decide. And if it's a broader subject like personnel, then making a motion or bringing something to the to the agenda specifically on personnel is really not out of a building. It gets when it gets into readily identifying a person though they have to be noticed in writing if they're

137going to be discussed. And if they're not noticed in writing that they're being discussed, that's an FOI violation. And if you did render a decision based on that conversation that might be overturned by the commission later it's really that's where I'd be very concerned at any meeting at any committee meeting to to just bring up a topic that that could be traceable to a person a staff member is really is really something you really should avoid with with all intentions. >> Thank you. I just want to say thank you. That that specifically answers my hypothetical that it just can't bring up uh Bob Smith's uh position randomly. It has to go through the process, >> right? >> And and and when when it becomes identifiable to Bob Smith, he needs to be notified um prior

138to the board having that discussion. >> Thank you. >> Um so I just wanted to chat about two things. So I've been I'm part of the policy committee and I've been actually working quite extensively on developing content around the committees based on different discussions that we've had during the board um with different conversations with board members. So I will say I am taking notes during this meeting so that then I can work um with Dr. Avery team as well incorporating those in. Um I did have an idea and a thought about the finance committee. So I'm not sure if we wanted to get away from instruction and support services um about finance. >> Well, given it's eight now, um I do want to make sure that we don't lose track of where we are. So

139um it might not be a bad idea. Um before I do that, Joe has his hand up and then we'll actually you want why don't you share your thought on finance and then we can go to Josh. >> So with the finance committee a lot of the content that's shared during that meeting is also reshared during the larger board meeting. So I was thinking to save time both on the cabinet level board level why don't we just make that meeting a meeting of the whole just like personnel >> some board well I know our board at budget time treated budget as or finance as a committee of the whole um I'm not sure that that's something you'd have to discuss because it does mean more people being required to be there um for for a

140core because then you'd have to worry about the core. But um the idea of let's put it down and it's one of those areas where as a committee and the way I've worked with my fin board finance committees it was an opportunity for them to kind of drill down on some of the accounts and and not and and then make recommendations to the full board present that this is the number of these transfers that were made and we approved we recommend the board fully, you know, approve this these acts. Um, we also looked at the quarterly statements and and our budget is um spent up to the point where it should be spent at this time of year and things are working really well. There's some pressure in the special ed account, but we're taking

141these the administration's taking these steps to ameliate some of those issues. So it it really was um a and actually when around budget time it was we didn't have the board the full board having the deliberations over the various object codes. It was the finance committee that did it and then would make recommendations to the full board on would be adopting the budget. But that's just how it was done in my district be done differently. >> Okay. Joe. >> Yes. I I I just want to make sure we're absolutely clear because we're heading into a period of time where we may have to make an additional $20 million in budget cuts in next next fiscal year that when the agenda items come to us on finance committee or before the board of the full hold,

142they're noted as budget gap elimination or um additional position recommendations. And it's not out of the scope of the board's duty to suggest amendments or substitutions to the superintendents and the staff's recommendations and implement those at the meeting. And I have never heard anybody's names mentioned. There's positions, some positions have maybe only one person in them, but uh they're noted on the agenda. If say nobody, nobody get offended. We're not talking about you right now. This is just an example. director of personnel versus was put on there and there's a substitution made to maybe eliminate the director of homeless services which we don't have in place of that position and then it gets discussed and fully vetted and then if a decision is made then the employee is brought into the conversation. So, we do

143have the ability. The budget is ours under state statute. We are responsible for it 100%. It's not the superintendent's budget to drop on the table. Not that Dr. Avery would do that and just leave it to us. It's for us to vet, amend, change, discuss, and come up with the best thing after thorough collaboration and everybody's ideas considered. And the final product will be decided by a majority, supermajority, or whatever have you. Is that a correct assessment? >> Yeah. Overall, it's a correct assessment. Again, I think when you're talking about people's jobs and livelihood, I think you just it's not what you do, it's how you do it. And and again, I would I if if I as a superintendent, I would expect my my board chair or board member who had certain questions or

144or was going to make certain recommendations that I would at least be aware of it and it would be being be vetted or discussed or wouldn't just come as a as a bomb in a meeting. >> Yeah. Sometimes that's a little difficult to do when agendas are posted 24 hours ahead of time. So that's just that there. The first chance you get to see it is at the meeting itself. >> Yeah. Again, just I think sensitivity is is is warranted. And again, just being aware that when you're talking about um a person who has there's one position and there's one person in that position, you're publicly disclosing that that you're recommending that a person loses his job or her job. I I again I think it just be it needs to be thought out and

145and considered in a way that's going to be um look good that the board is doing its due diligence. It's doing its appropriate deliberations. It's taking its role as fis you know the fiscal agent of the district seriously. Um so it just I just requires a lot of thought and deliberation. That's in my view. Uh yeah. Um I want to add um for instruction sport service there is the the variety of additional programs that we have um that we're looking at too. So as an example, the athletic director was in the last meeting to look at the athletic programs, you know, and what we were doing with them. It was a topic began last spring and so we're trying to evaluate that and review it throughout the year as we did with the um academic

146progress recently when we got the test course. Um so it's an ongoing discussion throughout the year uh as we develop a a middle school sports program. So, you know, that kind of stuff is part of what we just heard. >> And there one of the thoughts was, are there anything we can pull off? And I'm not hearing a lot. Some of them you've already identified as either they're gone or going, but some of these things are >> support services. You know, there's the support services of uh you know, uh counseling and and social work and that type of stuff, but there's also the um lacking on the word right now. It's it's um the u it's it's support arts all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I I use the term loosely non-academic subjects which you

147know in my mind they're that is another term >> unified arts related arts is another term it'll come to me it'll pop my head in and then I you know I wanted to say that one of the problems that we're having with looking at recent is that we remember it in the past winter we were dealing with two budgets we were putting together a budget and we were fixing a budget at the same time. Um, and you know, some things could have been handled better, I'm sure, but that is what we were doing. We were trimming and a budget that we found out was $10 million more than we thought it was, and it was already too much. So, the reality got in the way. banks weren't handled as well as they could have been

148because the state was breathing down our neck and we were trying to trim the current year's budget, the 24 25 budget and set the budget for 2526 at the same time. And so uh now that we are just in a plain ordinary um we are working on a you know Dr. bravery and and the CFO have laid out a timetable that would have us beginning to think about doing things normally um like you just laid out Jody of had looking at a budget in January and trying to figure out how we can do it without the resources. So hopefully we'll do that in a more humane way and and better than >> so I can be currently discussing our finance committee and then anybody on um contracts um fiscal conditions >> fiscal >> condition >>

149um be good >> I'm looking at older from this year um Expedential reports for specific schools. >> Physical >> expedential um >> expenditures. >> Expedential reports to specific schools. >> Yeah. um a capital plans for the facilities. Obviously the budget but >> all caps >> anything related to budget gap those are some of the major items. contracts both personnel and just procurement contracts. >> Well, um how we doing on brand? >> We brought France before the board before the finance committee grants. Well, just a review or ongoing because I know we're doing we're doing more to secure more grants and so so ongoing. >> So are you doing up the >> I guess my question be appropriate. I'm asking >> it would be because I know you're making a more organiz you you've organized it

150in a better way. You're doing a better effort to to show and it was brought to the board's attention that was a need and so you're getting report back that in fact we are taking steps to do that. Yeah. Um guess the I'm just what I'm trying to pinpoint is because that's like a global issue of concern seems very appropriate to have a conversation about that. Now do you recommend or take any action based on that or it's just receive and move on. A lot of times we we refer to the full board any contracts all the all these things are usually refer like >> you have to vote to approve certain things and so the committee would forward that to the board that boards for most of these action items >> this one's going

151to be a well it's huge but it's I'm wondering how much of it is like the immediate mediate facility discussions versus the long-term planning which I know is like first and foremost on all of your minds right now. >> Excellent. It's a mix of both. >> Um but it's also something we're talking about facilities for those online. Um it's also something that personally I think based on the audit that we had should fall under the finance because there's a lot in facilities that have to do with finance and um there's like a disconnect right now or per the audit results there was a disconnect between what facilities spending versus what our CFO knows about. I I kind of think that I think you mentioned earlier like the operations which included um facilities I think you

152mentioned that earlier but personally I think that that any facility related issue should go most facilitation should go to finance that's not personal >> you know we had a finance committee that did all facilities all personnel and um any other types of operational decisions um and there's always a connection between them and for instance like you're saying there's some of these things there's a direct link, but by having two different committees, you're I mean, I could see one being an ad hoc long-term committee and looking at the future versus sort of the operational part of it, which blends it's directly result of budget and all those other implications as well. >> Title you might want to consider would be something like operational management. Um, it's it's really looking at managing operations. You're looking at finance.

153You're looking at buildings and short-term, long-term planning. >> I'm I'm going to ask you this question though because I'm when I hear the word management, the admin thing is boards don't manage and govern. >> Yeah. >> And so I I agree that that's the correct term, but I'm wondering if there's wording that doesn't >> operations shouldn't operations. operations >> maybe it's operations that really guides the finance rather than finance guiding the operations. >> Yeah. I think one of the goals you need to look at as you move forward is that you're not making decisions on funding based on funding needs that you're making them based on operations needs. >> Yeah. >> So we're not looking at person and I know you have to get there. you're not there. But you stop looking at we have

154to cut four positions, but rather we have to change the way we do business in this particular area, which may mean we can do it more effectively or more efficiently or use a different department. So you're making operational decisions versus budget decisions. It has the impact. I don't think you could be there yet because you have such a overwhelming budget complex right now. that that may be something long term, but you're writing policy for the long term really. I mean, that should be the goal of changing your policies is what do we want to look like, not necessarily what are we dealing with right now. We may change what we do to meet that future, but in my mind, the policy should reflect what we want to do, not what we're doing. >> I think

155some of the things we've had within the facilities, we've also brought both lines. We're doing this thing twice. So we're looking at the capital plate and both >> and so that's where that redundancy comes in, >> right? >> And then it goes before the pool over. So three times you're seeing the capital plant, right? >> Um and so if it was just an operation, maybe we just see it all at once and really get into it. >> Um and then your staff doesn't have to three times, >> right? >> Or one more time. We also talk about nutrition and facilities to bring up those matter. The organizational chart that falls under finance entries. Well, >> if that fell under operation, it would still be in one. Yeah. in one. What what's refreshing to me a

156little bit is the things you're talking about except for a few that you noted are going because we knew we you know we had to but we don't really think it's appropriate. We're going to change that. I haven't heard a lot of stuff that you can offload that there might be some areas within these that you could probably depend on administration do a little more do a little less but in general these are all very reasonable things for the board to be looking at I think how you structure the committees to make that happen is going to be the question or or the goal um but I I don't sounds like we have three committees we have operations instructions and support services and policy You had mentioned there's five said five, but what were the

157other choose to talk about it? >> What are the other two? Is it is it something that the board >> maybe >> personnel was going to be an >> oh because facilities >> facilities was going to be right. I guess I'd like to kick on a little bit more on the personnel because it seems to me that a lot of personnel issues would be under operations because it's part of you know I consider that's part budget part finance part operations when you're getting into specific um sort of like more ad hoc things like we have to have this committee to do a specific task to me that might be a little bit different and maybe that's still an ad hoc but I don't count that as part of your >> committees committee structured ad hocs

158have a purpose and then they go away. I think it was simply the the times in which the board actually interviews. >> Yeah. >> For high level administrative positions uh and they go into executive session. So instead of having the personnel committee members, those three people are on that committee or could have been but instead of having that letting any board member and have the whole board available to go into executive session to do the interviews um right or wrong that was the thought. So that was the point of it not anything else. Okay. So thank God. So for those very limited occasions and they're very limited when you're interviewing at that level to do it not not for but you might think of other personnel related matters that would be in in an operations

159committee. >> That makes sense. >> Yes. I have a question now that um Mr. Trader said that the policy personnel as a question maybe you can help with that have to um the committee have to interview the candidates whoever is coming to work for BOA because I know they have to go through that's you know on word is Dr. every but before come to the committee they interview with the executive director you know so that his cabinet if they have to that's a question >> well I I guess the because so I understand your process you're not doing a final interview from the recommendation of the superintendent you're interviewing >> multiple candidates and then you're deciding who to hire >> no they recommend may I >> somebody can >> no so the what I understand

160through what's been happening for you was on paper policy by law, right? The judgment is the superintendent brings forward two to five candidates for that individual position and the policy and uh the personnel committee at this moment is two together. Uh we interview those people. Then we make a recommendation on those candidates and he decides the hiring decisions are the superintendent not the the committee. And our current our current policies are nonprofit. We need just say two and five. We know another policy says three people a minimum of three people. So right now that's something that definitely have to work on like our our personnel like our hiring policy in general um to really solidify because we do have uh you know the 3000 series and I believe in me series I can't remember off

161the top of my head but there's two different um policies on it. See, I I with one exception I it might be necessary to interview up to let's say two or three. Yeah. >> But if your superintendent has somebody that's perfect for the job, why go through three? >> Yeah. >> I I And again, it's your policy, your decision. Um but I don't want to restrict my superintendent. And actually, I've seen that in practice because we had this we had three candidates for an elementary principal. Superintendent had a clear fate. We want I want this young man to be the principal. And we had two others who um one was would have been exceptional except he was high school level and we really had no elementary experience and we eventually hired for the high school

162later. But the third person wrote grants for the district. She had been in the district 15 years. Um knew nothing about instruction. She had never been a classroom teacher. Wrote grants. So we interviewed all three. And the superintendent was very clear. This person is only here because she's been in the district 15 years. I owed her an interview. She is not my recommendation. wing, wing, nudge, nudge. I mean, he made it as clear as possible that it was a a courtesy to her, but he was not, but she was not a serious contender. At 2:00 in the morning, when we were done debating this, guess what? We hid this her. The school was chaos for two years. And every time something erupted in the school, we'd go to the superintendent and say, "What's going on?

163You hired her. I didn't." I never want to give that power to somebody else again. I want the superintendent. If you're going to live and die by that person, you need to be able to stand behind them. So that's the only place I would say if I have >> I think so. If I have somebody that I truly believe is the right person, I have an obligation I think to bring that one candidate to you, you still can interview and you can say, you know what, not not my choice. Um that then again that's up to how you you know work yourselves through. But if I think you limit yourselves, especially if it's a specialty area where there's not a lot of people looking for work, how long do you wait? I think this happened

164recently if I'm not mistaken, where you had to potentially lose somebody because you didn't have enough. So I think that's a hamstring >> or didn't have the the time to get everybody together and that person had another offer and that person went somewhere else where if that person were quickly acted upon and hired that person would be working. So that's again those are practicalities you have to consider with this >> Albert Denj. Yeah, but because it's you know I'm saying because it's my opinion it's the way I see it be so many years is always that whoever come of course the district or his cabinet where interview that person you know many hours and then they go to the committee another many hours again and then come to Dr. let's say in the many so

165why I have to be coming to the committee or it's okay if they second made the decision then you know talk to Dr. this is the person >> what's acceptable and and some of it's past practical. I mean you decide how you the process you want but the reality is um even there are some boards that vote on a final hire and central office level a lot don't but you get to say bring us a person bring us the person you are most comfortable with that you believe can do the job and then it's up to your practice whether you would actually approve that or just say okay we we're comfortable go for it. Um >> but statutoily you're required to as a board to appoint that person. >> Okay. So >> so you would

166you are required to appoint but you can do that based on the recommendation of the superintendent to appoint. You don't have to interview some it's a courtesy get to know them feel comfortable but um and if you're going to appoint it probably is a good idea to have that interview but um you know I think it's a different thing when you're instead of going through a shopping list. I just interviewed four roofers for my house and I am so confused. >> All right. Thank you. >> Go. >> Yes. I'd like to back up for a minute because um it sounds like we are discussing merging facilities and finance which was done before to disastrous results. So, we've got a facilities master plan with hundreds, basically hundreds of projects in the jumper. And as you know,

167the budget is already a full-time process. And as far as being duplicative, it doesn't have to be duplicative. There's nothing that says that a building plan once approved that the discussion that the contract was looked at in one committee that has to go to another committee to do the contract. That's one of the reasons that the contracts um to Mr. Traver's point earlier was separated out. The particular committee with the expertise in that subject area would be looking at the contracts. Facilities would look at a facilities contract. Finance would look at a catch off of all contracts that didn't get caught anywhere else. Uh teaching and learning ISS would look at um textbook contracts. It would look at all this stuff and vetting those within its area area of expertise and then presenting it to

168the full board. So it doesn't necessarily have to be that it's a teaching contract that they look at it, they vet the program and say, "Oh, this is great." And then it has to come to finance to vet the contract again. No, it can move to the full board from teaching and learning. It doesn't have to do that. I highly highly strongly recommend since it has failed in the past that we do not merge finance and facilities especially with the facilities master plan to still be vetted. Community forums could be held and finance with $20 million possible budget cuts coming up next year. merging them would be a very very bad idea and having one person chair that committee and set the agenda items for all those committees would be too much of a concentration

169of power and we very scary road to go down again after we failed on that road once before. Thank you. >> Do you think so? like you had mentioned that um I'm not sure if you heard of this, but there's some facilities where that could be brought before the finance versus long-term items that could be an ad hoc. >> Well, that's but that's what I'm thinking here. Um that anything to do with like the master plan >> can be adop. >> I would consider that >> it's not something that we have to be on regularly any >> right now. We will be in the near future, but that's good in general. Um, and then um he says something else. >> Yeah. To shave off. >> So So um >> I heard you mention baseball and

170me you're a Socks fan. Oh. show. >> So I I guess what I'd like to summarize where we are decide are we sort of have we hit the wall for tonight or or is there something else we need to accomplish before we're done? >> What what can be referred or are items referred to? So, is it, you know, one board member might want like they're they're really connected with a local nonprofit and they want presentation at the instructional support service about that nonprofit. Can that be a referral or is it referral of the board? So, maybe at the next board meeting, regular board meeting will have our referral reports um you know looking at. So, I want I want this um this on the agenda and so is it on automat? got it or the

171other full board saying well maybe that doesn't go on that agenda thing. >> Well I I I think to Joe's point earlier too much power by whoever creates the agenda and I guess that would be if the rule is anybody wants something on an agenda it just automatically happens send chaos. So I think somehow um either the simplest thing would be if Lily said that there's this program I'd really like to have a presentation on at the committee that I would think the chair could say if there's no objection from the board it'll be um put on a future subcommittee agenda um and not necessarily the next one but the future and then that chair working with the superintendent to figure out when can we schedule it what what is worth it um if there's

172any controversy over an issue. It might be um we have a request for this to go to the budget committee for or the operations committee for example. Um are there objections and if there's none it can be and and if there are then let's bring to a vote and the vote the board would vote to say yes we move this to that operations committee for disc future discussion. Um it's just that you don't want to consolidate that nine different people get to choose what happens on nine different agendas u or three even three different agendas. That's even worse. You know that's nine times three 18 potential agenda topics for three meetings and who's going to have to make all that happen? It could get very confusing. So I think filtering it through the board and

173and as I say if it's working well and if we have back to this point here. If we trust our chair to be um effective in helping make these agendas work properly, then it should just be a matter of we'd like to see this. The chair can say with no objections, we're going to do that. That'll be referred to the committee. If there are objections, we can vote. I think your question has to do with the board's role in assigning committees, right? agenda like so. So who's whose job is it for the policy committee for example to determine what policies they're going to update? Should it be a board decision? Should it be the chair's decision? Should it be the policies chair's decision? Or should it be a collaboration? Right? So again, I I my

174my general thought is that that way it's worked successfully from my experience is that the board understands it, for example, the superintendent gives a report and there's a there's new legislation. We just got a cave update. We need to get these three mandated policies updated. So um so there might be a board vote or it could be the chair saying I'd like to refer this these three mandated policy revisions to the policy committee for their review and then the policy committee would then take that as the charge to review those policies and come back with a um recommendation for policy adoption. >> See I think the question a little different because I don't disagree with you. I guess the question is if somebody comes up with something unique to a situation then is it part

175of the the normal agenda of the committee like a presentation by a group or um a new program that they've heard about or whatever. I think there needs to be some collaboration with the chair to see that it gets the board to the committee. I think things like policy to some extent that's going to be driven by what central office has been working on what CAPE has sent you um as they do their work um or it might be you know we'd like to talk about this well we know that this is coming up in April and so maybe it's appropriate for the subcommittee to discuss it in April or it's going to be before the full board in April so maybe it doesn't make sense but um I I think I'm more concerned about

176the wild card type of things if you excuse the pun um you know the things that just I want to talk about this or I want to talk about that. I don't even the committee chair to some extent should have that type of authority because when you say I want to do this you're also saying to the superintendent I want you to do this and I think since the superintendent works for the entire board that if there's change in directive that the directive should be coming from the board >> and the sub and the committee works for the board the full board that it's the board's determination as to what the subcommittees are what their charges are and it's doing the work of the full board >> but the immediate of practice is none of

177this. That's dysfunctional. >> So what you're currently doing right now is not what we're suggesting as a best practice is anybody can refer something to a committee >> at any time, >> right? too. >> And then I can get an email, I can get, you know, at a board meeting at the end of my report, somebody, you know, the chair says an email referrals to the committee and anybody can say, "Yep, I want to refer this, this, this, and this." And I write it down or I say, "Please email that to me." And you email it. >> Well, William, while you're flatten your arm, it's people's invasion. So, I did not arm. I said, >> you put it down. So it just and and and and so any at any time people can do this

178and so it's that's what it is right now. It's sort of open season on the committee. Um and the chair right now puts it on the agenda. Um I you know I guess if there was something really outrageous the chair could say you know and I actually didn't say to Albert how would you if I put this on the lengthen on a particular item and he said no that's fine uh and we did so you know that can happen but essentially it's just um wild west that's my my blah blah blah >> yeah west so I I think that we wanna be a little clear about uh it's not that the chair can do anything and then I'll get contacted by administrators. Um do you mind if I put this on the agenda? Do you

179mind if I get you know I I need to refer this to your committee? Um and it's like yeah sure put it on. Yeah, sure. Let's put >> Well, even there and I guess if Dr.'s was comfortable with his staff coming to the committee. Otherwise, they serve him. They don't necessarily all tell me that they spoken to Dr. Avery about most of them have been. >> I believe that to be the case, but occasionally I think some even get, you know, come to me that haven't necessarily been run away. >> So, so what shared with you best practice and it's up to I think we got to tighten that up a little bit is my point. That's the ultimate point here. >> So, you're not presenting this current practice. I'm saying that we need to

180be a little clear about how that works. >> I don't think the committee itself like the Bible itself say that we have to do it the way we've been doing it. >> I said past don't even say that we should be doing it that way. Just I think because of past, >> right? I'm just saying >> we could probably just implement this on Monday. Do you all agree with this presentation or you know? >> Yeah. And again, as you're looking at future bylaws language, that's might be one of the places you want to include some changes. You >> Yeah, I have my hand raised. I didn't wave it, did I? Okay. In fact, >> you were excited, but that's okay. >> Yeah. I want to make sure that sometimes >> I wanted to read that

181way. I >> as soon as you said I got you, somebody that I had my hand up, respectfully, because I again, I'm a made of words. You said agenda. We they have been talking about referrals. To me, that's two different things. I've been referred a lot of things and I just don't put it on my agenda whenever it becomes a lot of things happen because of laws and all that other policies is a whole different thing. But I've never expected I'll speak for me as as a board member that when I refer something so to them what they do with the referral as far as talking to Dr. Avery, talking to whatever head of the that department might be or whatever it might be. I don't know how they work it. I just know mine

182is different because it's just policy is just so specific. Theirs is different. But I've never felt that I had an authority to put anything on the agenda. To my knowledge, the chair is the one that decides. Every committee chair decides what's is put on the agenda and we meet with for example Danielle and we send it over to Dr. Avery. He approves it. If he has a problem with it, then he will say something or vice versa. Then we send it over to get signed and then it gets filed. Um and then the chair I know she does she's the one that creates her agenda. Nobody tells her what to put in the agenda. They speak they do this. So I never felt that I had an authority to tell a person to put something

183at the agenda. I don't know how they all feel but I want to say so when you say agenda I agree with you. Nobody should be putting agendas except the chair for a purpose but it should be kind of like worked out with administration all that referrals to me is just is your step you know can you get information about this I would like to refer this to your committee I said okay let's figure it out that's how I look at it how I've been managing our >> so if we think of the word agenda though I mean that's the roadmap of our meeting so if we're going to have someone sitting at the meeting talking to us about something that should be a topic on the agenda >> absolutely but when they say referral

184to me the referral is not an agenda the item that that that you're telling them to put it on that like you said >> it's request yeah semantics but yeah it's I can ask the board to talk about policy or finance or whatever that's that's just the request referral whatever but it's not actionable until it's on an agenda and I think that's what we're just saying that is from the board to the agenda there needs to be a process to make sure that people aren't just ending up spending an hour extra hour beating talking about something nobody had planned on >> intentionality that's going back to other point earlier around what we know what to expect we're prepared what's what to expect there's an overall rhino or reason for the work we are all doing

185that's essentially I mean if you're referring something like me that's the only way my committee doesn't need is that it's meeting and that's through him >> y >> so we'll type that up. Yeah. >> So I am in the interest of time if they want to get like people's input on something else that the bylaw is not very clear and it's how many people are in the committee. Um it's it's open. It actually has no suggestion at all. Right now there's three people per committee. And I just wanted to kind of put this out there. Are we okay with that number? Um, and if so, is that the number we want to commit to in the bylaws? >> I will say it's it's common practice. Three is common practice in most districts I'm aware of.

186It should be less than a form >> and and four you have an even number. So, it might be hard to move things out of a committee with an even number. So, three is there's a rationality around three being a number. >> Yeah. And perfect. So, and then the last thing is if there's no referrals or no topics. I know we always say, "Hey, this committee meeting is meeting every Wednesday of the month, but if there's no topics, we need to be a little bit clearer on, hey, it will only meet as necessary and kind of wanted to make sure everyone is okay with that or wanted to debate it. We certainly don't want to have a meeting just because we we say we have to >> again this is just common practice. Bridgeport is

187is Bridgeport but >> a meeting a meeting a week is that's a lot of meetings. >> No, it's monthly. >> Okay. The monthly meetings monthly. It is a month >> a committee. We've had this abundance of special meetings but the the committee meetings are monthly. >> Monthly, >> but if there's nothing to discuss, there's nothing that says you can't cancel the meeting. >> Exactly. whether the meeting is then established until there's a time, place, and location, a time, day, time, and location. >> I will say that some committees do meet uh they have a a like a >> a set time >> every Wednesday at 6, right? But there might also be of a special meeting. >> Yeah, I think each committee should have a set period of time when it meets so the community

188expects it. But if there's nothing on the agenda to discuss that particular month, then I agree. special meeting and I also would say that that has happened and then there's might call the special meeting. So they have two of that committee meeting you have the meeting twice a month or or they'll have the meeting and then you know call it again later and I know with finance we've done that a few times because because there's a lot in finance but you know other other times you know if something didn't wasn't brought before on this normal night it was called for a special meeting. So like I think really honing in on like if your meeting is let's say Tuesday first Tuesday of the month last Tuesday of the month last Tuesday of the month your

189meeting should be last Tuesday of the month of the month you know unless there's like >> unless the last Tuesday of the month is Christmas we have third Tuesday it's changed because there is a meeting and that week so they we're trying to do it I mean we've all worked it out with each other I think you know it's the fourth Wednesday there >> Thanksgiving Eve. >> I think there's always >> there's always going to be a need for a special meeting, but I I would be one of the gauges of your success as a board is the the the lessening of the need for special meetings. So, so can things come up, you need to address it. you have a special meeting, but if you're having a lot of special meetings, you have to

190think about what are we what are we doing as a board that warrants that number of special meetings? What aren't we covering in our own meetings that's requiring these special meetings? What are we forecasting? What aren't we predicting and anticipating? So I think that that's one of the when you do your board um evaluation that would be one of the metrics you might want to look at the number of special meetings when they occur and and whether or not there are things you can do to eliminate some of the needs for that because you're really you're not it's it establishes a lack of routines for bored but it also signals to your community that you're operating on a on a whimsical basis. >> The other thing I would add too is there's nothing, in fact,

191I encourage you as you have the either special meetings or when your meetings start to get long, there's nothing wrong with saying, did we really have to have this on a board agenda? You know, what's the rationale for us having to make this decision? Why is it in front of us? answer yes very likely is appropriate but that you'll find that there especially if you're calling special meetings what what what caused us to have to meet tonight >> emergency board meeting two nights we have to have something recommended or whatever okay but you might start finding yourself say secondguing did we really have to have that meeting and then start thinking ahead to as you look at other potential special meetings is there a better way that this could be done is administration able to

192deal with this and then just report to us later. For example, it should be a learning process. You know, we don't just make a decision. And that's why I think bylaws you don't want to be so prescriptive that you tie yourself into a corner like you have to interview three or three to five. Yeah. >> And then you have the one and you're stuck. So >> it should policy should and bylaws are a policy. It's a 9,000 section of your policy manual. um they should enable you enable your administration not restrict them as much as possible. It should it should inspire not required compliance basically as much as you can. I feel like we hit a spot. I'm not sure if it's the right spot or not. I'm not sure if we accomplished everything you

193wanted to, but I hope this conversation helps you move forward with your bylaws and and regarding committees and such. You have a lot to think about, but I I did see some actionable things out of all this, potentially renaming them, um moving some things around, uh taking a couple things off or sort of removing them from the list. We've kind of basically stopped doing them as a committee. So, I think it's helped. Um if if maybe you could forward to me um that there's a there's a worksheet you gave us a few trainings ago and I what Christine asked the role of the superintendent his his responsibilities versus ours that would be really helpful for us to refresh ourselves. >> We have the K caps document which is that's like several pages but that really

194articulates well the differences and responsibilities. Um, I'm sure that that's a great score card to have with you when you're when you're going over your file. Yeah, it's really smart. >> I'll email that to you tomorrow. >> No, I think we've seen it before, but I guess >> doesn't hurt. >> That's how you're saying it with a purpose. >> Yeah. And a rationale. So, good. All right. Check the score one more time. Two to one Red Sox. And I'll second the scoring position. >> All right. Thank you guys. Have a good night.