001said they can't. Okay, it's noon, so we'll go ahead and get started. Um, call the meeting to order. Um, special meeting. So, the agenda is as presented. There's no changes. We do have one item on there. Um, approve the March check register, which you've got a copy in your folders. You need a second to look it over. Do that. You have questions. If not, I would accept the motion to approve that. I move. Second. All those in favor? 70. Okay. Um, next item on the agenda um is a discussion with the county commissioners. appreciate you guys coming today. Um Ed had called me a couple of weeks ago and talking about some of some of the things you guys are dealing with talking about and and was kind of asking me about some of our
002plans that we've been working on. And so we kind of agreed that maybe it'd be a good opportunity to just have a conversation about it instead of, you know, being in two different places having two different conversations. So, we that's kind of why we set this up was an opportunity for you guys to kind of share with us what what you got going and and for us to maybe give you a little bit of a picture of what we're hoping or trying to do and a chance to have a conversation about that. So, I don't know if you want to start and and kind of let let every let us know what you told me on the phone or we can however you want to go about it, we can go about it. Yeah, we'll
003just start off. I've got some rough estimates, ladies and gentlemen, uh here and and uh so I don't know if it's not in concrete, but the worst case scenario, the county be looking at we'd have to raise the 10 mills is our worst case scenario. We're hoping for less, but that's going to be our worst case scenario out there. Uh due to everything going up from insurance to cost of fuel to you, you you guys all experienced that. Well, lower valuation is the main deal because uh you know the well just right now would be a three and a half you have to keep say dollar amount so that sound like the valuation yeah how much did valuations well I've got the numbers figures here it's land went down about 4 million and farmstead residential
004went up about one and a half so so you got like two and a half swing there the majority of that same crop ground land. Okay. 15% last year and I think they're expected about the same farmland again. I mean it's you don't hold it that what it did last year. What will you you what what will your total yours is a little different than ours. Yours is about 10% evaluation more than ours roughly I think. So I'm curious. When will you have some preliminary you could share with us on what those evaluations that will obviously affect us and we haven't had that discussion because you get that data before we do. So it's coming in. No, we have nothing official because that may affect some of our decisions too because yeah that's we weren't
005sure what we our evaluation is going to be. I I'll go as far as saying that we're pretty close to what we're saying right here. Uh like the um mill levies last year were 70 one mill produced 74,46012 last year. This year in 25 that same mill is only going to produce [Music] $71,62479. Those are going to stay. Those probably aren't going to move too much, gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, those probably not going to move too much on the mill on the producing, but it could. But I'm feel comfortable that it won't do a lot of movement on that. Well, that'll affect us obviously. Sure, too. Yeah. Yeah. And us too. But yes, I understand that. Yeah. Yeah. But we're just, you know, to keep on board, we uh we're just thinking that we're going
006to shoot for this one for now and think we do not have to do it that it'll uh we was up to 6.429 last year and had to to just stay level to carry on ordinary county business. That was that was no good or nothing. I mean, that was just to get us what we needed to do, the bare necessities, and we went up 6.42 429 last year. So, I'm thinking we're going to be close to that 10 finally death, but I I'm hoping not. But, well, one of I mean, the reason that Ed called me there the other day was that he heard that we we have been looking at a possible project, too. And so to kind of throw that out into the conversation, it's it's been a and everybody please feel free
007to jump in that an ongoing thing for even since before I got on the board and this is my fifth year, sixth year. um what started out just to give you some background and and Urban I know you've sat in this seat here you probably have some background that I don't have on it but um started out years ago um with a with a plan to or with an idea to improve um CTE facilities uh our our science technology all all of that that in in in a in a STEM or steam type building. Um, and I know Mr. Meyers was kind of, you know, part of that initial idea of what could be done to build a new building that would give students some new facilities, new opportunities. Um, that progressed into taking a
008look at what our current facilities are and needs, you know, that we have of, um, things that need to be fixed, addressed, improved, all of that. Uh so we took on a facility study through a company and they came back and told us so many things that needed to be worked on. Um but one of the main things that that I don't know if we'll say came to our attention was was at our attention but suddenly moved up the list um was the HVAC system at the high school is is uh is is and has been well beyond its lifespan for years um for decades probably you could even safely say um it's it's a system that uh is I don't want to over be over dramatic, but it could probably fail at any time.
009Um, it's, you know, we've had people look at it, uh, that that don't want to even touch it because they're afraid if they touch it, they won't be able to get it back together. And I mean, it's it's So, then we kind of approached it from that. Well, we've got this major problem that needs to be fixed before we can even talk about new stuff, remodeling stuff, all of that. So, we went down that road with a with a company we were working with And at the end of that process, they uh basically told us that that fixing the HVAC system, replacing the HVAC system that we have in a in a similar u capacity would be probably a seven or eight million project. um which obviously none of us wanted to hear or you
010know uh but we we took that as far as we could take it and and honestly we were we were here at I think it was a December meeting um ready to go in January to vote on a resolution to try to run a bond to pay for a project like that and there were at least some of us that had enough hesitation on spending that amount of money on just fixing a problem to keep the status quo was was it's just not something we wanted to do. So, we kind of pushed pause on that. Uh we just I think we had enough of us sitting here going there's got to be a better way. There's got to be a better solution. Um it may we may not find a cheaper solution, but there's got
011to we we got to get something more for that kind of money. Um, so we started, we've worked with a lot of different people since then, um, trying to find some other solutions and we've gotten a lot of the same things that we already had. But, um, anyway, long story short, we we finally have started working with someone who's given us some other other ideas, other options on things we could do, fix this problem, and maybe still do some other things. Um, and so we're looking at right now repairing that HVAC system, but but doing it in a way that's going to replace it with a different system that's going to use um rooftop units, things like that, rather than a boiler system and chiller system that we currently have. That we believe will cut
012the cost at least probably in half. So we'd be looking at now maybe a three to4 million project to fix our climate control in that building. Sure. I spoke with uh Donnie File Monday and they were actually waiting for you to get back with him. There was some miscommunications. Anyway, he's still thinking they can do it for 2 to 2.5 and he's going to pull them numbers back out, review them, and get something formally sent to you. Okay, great. That that's good to know. Um, now whether comparing apples to apples, I don't know. But I'm just I'm hopeful that for the for the purpose of this discussion, um, I think what what we're both trying to say is we're trying to explore options that are cheaper. We have one that we know is about half
013as much. It would be great if we have a second one that might even be, you know, a third as much if if we can do that. Um and and uh he's what Wayne's talking about is maybe trying to do instead of rooftop units a mini split system on the whole building. So we're we're trying to explore every option is is what I'm trying to get across to you is that we it's we've we've any possible thing that could fix our problem and and not cost as much. But um so as we've been working with this new architect to try to find a cheaper solution, we've also been asking uh him to provide some ideas on addressing some of the other needs that have been um discovered through the facility study and through some community
014meetings of of talking to parents and things that they would like to see. Um, and so we have some tentative plans, nothing that's obviously been decided on of of possibly doing some kind of an addition to that building. Um, or at the very least some renovation to a good amount of that building. Uh we have like I said we have a number of things that our community members have has shared as a priority to them that they would like to see for their for their kids and and that includes the improved CTE. It improve it addresses things like safe and secure entrances um you know even things as simple as lighting windows in the building that that kind of thing. So, we're looking at all of that stuff, trying to condense it down to an
015into a project that that we feel like we can get behind and and that we feel like is at a price tag that maybe we can hopefully get our communities to get behind. Um, but we are we're we're just about there, I think, to where we're ready to take what we'd like to try to do to some community meetings and start getting that out into the public. I think that's a good idea. It's you need to do that. We Yeah, it's this is not something that seven people are going to sit here and decide this is this is the project. It's it's going to be we're going to we're going to come up with what we think is our best solution and then take that to to the community and say what do you think?
016Um and so that's the that's the timeline that we've been on. And uh it's but we're borrowed time. We're on borrow we're on borrowed time with a with an HVAC system that could fail on us at any time. And if it fails, obviously, we don't have any place to send kids to school. Uh not if it's not if it's really hot or really cold. Um, so the our our current timeline is is to hopefully have those community meetings or I should say maybe kind of finalize the scope of the project, have the community meetings if we feel like that's something we want to try to uh entertain a bond for. then then we would be looking to to do that um probably by the end of the year or so that I don't know when
017how that all works out but you can help me on that but the general question early November if we're trying to get to this November we really got to get going if if it if not it's probably going to be looking at next spring sometime or even next November but then you know that's knowing that we're already on borrowed time. So, I I tell you all that to say it's it's a process that we have been going through as a board for years. Um it's involved other board members than even they're currently sitting here. Um, and it's I I know that, you know, times are times are tight and the e economy is not great and valuations aren't great, but um we we want to have this discussion with you guys because um if if
018you're in a position where you feel like you're going to need to be going up on your mill rates significantly, it's it's going to be difficult for us to also go to a community and say, we also needs we need to do the same thing um because we've got some needs at our building. So, we want to try to work with you if we can through all of this. Um knowing that it's probably going to take some give and take on on both sides to to make it happen. Um we believe that uh you know we have needs that are going to that definitely need to be addressed um and probably sooner rather than later. Uh but we also I think are all very conscious of the fact that we can't overburden our tax payers
019um with you know some sign fairly significant raises all coming at once. So, I invite everybody else uh to to feel free to jump in and share share their thoughts. I just kind of wanted to give you a background of where we were at and how we've gotten to where we're at right now. And I get it, guys. You're in a hard rock hard on your Hback. You need that. That's a necessity. You got to have It's going to have to be, right? Yeah. You've got to uh I just Mitchell County all in one and I was wondering if you guys have thought about possibly doing one for your HVAC and one for something else so it don't fail for you. I'd hate to see you fail on your Hback because you guys need an
020Hback. I mean, you know it, we know it. You need your Hback. You got to have your Hback. Yeah. and and having a bond for necessary repairs is not a deal. They we had one on the roof for years and then we got a hell that next month they were to pay for pay for the roof. I don't think we could I don't think we can find a natural disaster that's going to just take out our HVAC system. But if we could, we'd be working on that. Well, we your capital outlay is you using that up just for maintenance or you No. Okay. Hey, that's are you going to have to finance at all or That's a great question. Um, we don't have specific answers to that, but but the plan is whenever we can
021come up with a a fairly specific scope for a project that that project is going to be have going to have to be something that's planned to be completed over time over a timeline and that timeline is going to include the funds that are in our current capital outlay helping move that project along. So, I guess the short answer is if we need $10 million to do a project, we intend for the a couple million dollars of that to be coming out of the the capital outlay that we currently have. It it we're not going to be asking for money so that we can What have you been doing on capital? Four mills eight and that we recently went up on that. You may want to twirl some of that away. No, it Yeah. And
022and go going back um you know I mean we we have what somewhere around $2 million probably in capital outlay. That's we've we've got some larger projects that'll deplete that this year with But the the idea was I'm sorry, but the idea was when this this HVAC thing originally came to everyone's attention, I think it was probably about a $2.5 million project to fix it. And so I think the thinking was we could probably just about do it out of capital outlay. Well, as you guys well know, in the last 5 years or so, what was a $2 million project is now suddenly a $6 or 7 million project. It just And so, to answer your question, yes, there is absolutely intent from this board to to utilize capital outlay dollars, not just what we
023currently have, but but have a timeline over years to how much of that each year can contribute into a project. Um, I guess that's all I have on that. Brandon, part of this has been some how can we creatively do this recognizing we may not be able to fund the whole project at once. How do we take this off in bites? How do we take just what Mark said, you know, we know what approach is? What what do we think the community and its capacity to invest in our school system financially? So, what's that dollar amount we think we need to take to the community and say here's what here's what we think we can get? And we're even looking at it. I think very creatively on like how do you we're from a c
024from our CTE perspective. The HVAC's hard to do that. You either you're either in or you're out on the HVAC. It's got to be done or not. It's kind of one project. But the current checked and the secure entry facilities and all that is like can we build a shell and then fill it with capital outlay dollars as we once it's built and fill that in, you know, to furnish it and finish to completion. looking at those needs because I think it's important. It's it's that community input piece that has said, you know, we we've we we want this current we need to continually update our facilities for our students. We have a space issue. We are loaded at the elementary and they're all coming to the high school. Um and we and we know
025the investment in the current teched programs across the state. We are now shipping kids to Bo. Um, we've got and we we want to try to get it capture as much of that here for kids, you know, expand their abilities and that career tech program is an expansion we see is really really vital um as an investment. So, how do we balance that with with capital outlay dollars that we've already attained capital outlay dollars were continue to acquire every year knowing we are not a Blue Valley school district that can just go write one big check and fund it across a bunch of houses. It comes on the backs of land owners mostly. And so how do we stage that very creatively is a lot of our conversations to it may not we may not
026be able to do it all in one year but we're going to go get pieces that are absolutely essential and funded over time. That's been a I feel a very critical part of our conversation. It has been and that's at the point that we're at right now where if if we're able to pass a bond that project most likely is would would build some kind of a facility that's not actually going to be finished. It's going to be, you know, walls, floor, ceiling, and then with the with a plan over time to finish that out because to try to do all of it at once is just going to be cost prohibitive. The capital is important. The capital isn't all going already gone. You can use that pay as you go. Absolutely. And and we
027and we think we've we have some money there that can be put to that and should be put to that. That's I mean it's what we've it's the reason it's there. Valuation is an important piece because we we're mil cap. So we if if our 30 you're guaranteed 30 that's a goator. Exactly right. That's so if valuations are going down and we're middle cap today that those dollars we would plan on would be less. Yeah. That's exactly right. That's a important piece. Um yeah I I just want to say I appreciate you all being here because I think we can't we're the two largest taxing entities. We we're taxing all the same people essentially. We're all trying to be the most efficient. I'm convinced that we can be um and yet I I I look
028forward to hopefully a part of the discussion is in the future what what else could we work on? I I I want to share this context of what's going on with us, right? We're not in dire financial straits. It's just when you have these big projects come in, you've got to it's it's too much for us to bite off all at once. And so you got to figure out how to spread that investment out. But at the same time, um I look forward to hope we can at some point talk about what other things we can work together on. So, I know there's been times where we've overlapped in some areas on cost and I think that'd be we've had this discussion around health insurance where we've got employees that are on our health plan
029that we're paying for that are also on your health plan and so that's all costing the joy county taxpayer all one big thing. So, um and you know sometimes costing them more than maybe we'd all like it to but uh I just want to say thanks for being here to be a part of that. I think as a community, I don't know if you, there was a news article came out about three weeks ago ranking us as one of the poorest counties in the state of Kansas, and that just breaks my heart. I don't want people to think that of us. Um, I wasn't a big fan of video, the most boring place, but to be ranked in that we I I think I think the opportunity is a lot greater than that. And I
030hate for people to see that perception of us. And as a school district, I I I think we sit on this board because we find greater hope in that for our kids. And that investment is too important not to let them think that about their home community. So I think a little of that probably comes because we have no investors here and no oil and gas. Exactly. Probably the receivers will go to the forest. I'm not pick it up for fond of the the deal myself. Me too. But uh we just we're just out here. We don't have anything. you know, commercial industry, oil and gas, all those things we miss out on and it and it falls in the back of land owners and we recognize that and residential people who buy houses. I
031mean, it falls on us all out here. Everybody. Yeah. We we're truly h we still need a good education system. We still need a good functioning county government to make all the pieces happen. And so, uh um there's no I mean we're it we're pretty rare to have a full countywide school um like we have. That's and so I think this conversation creates even more value given where we're at today. If we do a bond in November, how quickly if it fails, how quickly can we follow up another? There's a 90-day window from any election before you can do another one. Um, April, what's the cost association with a special election? Uh, I want to say it's 15,500. I'm not sure. I just If you would do one location or if you want to do
032one just by mail, price would be different. I think Mitchell County did all theirs by mail. They also did it outside of the normal voting time. So if you did it in November, the regular voting put it on my creating locations and have it be in person or mail ballot. And both those are different. But I heard you say 1,500 or I'm not I think he said I'm not sure what the cost would be. That's something I would have to look at. I was just throwing random number out. I don't know how many you thinking out. Way to go. There is a cost associated with having a special book. Yeah, there's there factors in setting that election timing and mailing like she mentioned. Those are things we haven't even discussed yet is what's Do you
033think you have a A, B, and C option? Well, we've tal we've talked about that also. Um extensively neighbors and and there's the yes, we've we've talked about whether the advantages of trying to do you know a bc all one all one thing. I mean there's there's there's advantages and disadvantage to all those. Um we we also we I think we know um if you if if you go in um and say A is is absolutely just fix the bare minimum and B is everything else um you may get A but you're never going to get B. And just to add to that, Mark, one drawback and since we've discussed it, but we feel like as a board, we're trying to come up with a plan to get what we need and a little bit
034of what we want to not also hamstring the next board for the next 20 years. You pass a bond, that's the only bond you're going to pass for 15, 20 years. That's the other piece. If we just fix the HVAC, we're just status quo for the next generation basically, which if that's what it is, that's what it is. But we're what we're working to try to come up with is what is that number that we can pass in one shot. Yeah. To do some stuff. Yeah. And we and you don't know. That's the problem is this is all an unknown. Say we don't know yet, but we're trying to maybe get it simplified, right? what we need plus enough to kind of get us planning for the future two years. And yes, I appreciate that,
035Kenny. Thank you for that thought. That's because that that is exactly part of what our discussion has has been is that, you know, it I think there's probably some of us even sitting here right now that would like to say, "Yeah, that's that's what we want to put on the ballot is the bare minimum to fix our problem and status quo is keep the doors open." Um, but like Kenny said, if if you pass that and that's a 20-year bond just to do that, that's the next 20 years of a board sitting here probably not being able to make any more improvements, you know, I was going to say it's about it is and so so through all of our discussions, it it we really want to try to do something that provides some new
036facilities or provides some new educational opportunities or provide some new aspects of safety and security, provide some new, you know, remodeling, refreshing of our building. We're we're trying to have there be that second piece besides just fix the problem. And and I I have some hesitation on splitting those into two different things on a on a bond because, like I said, we I think I know where that's probably going to end up. Um, so that's that's been our discussion on that. And so we as we try to figure out these numbers and what's the scope and we we think we landed somewhere and this wouldn't necessarily be the bond value, but we've discussed what what does $10 million get us and that's if we could involve capital outlay maybe a partial bond capital outlay funding
037for years to come and progress that we there's even an option for us. I don't know if it exists for counties, but we can we can discuss things the lease purchase option for us um on potentially in districts who use that. But a $10 million bond over 25 years, thank Wayne 12, but it's it's at least seven to n% probably increase in total for taxpayers. So just to give you the context, you know, every mill for us is essentially um is is a million dollars over 25 years. That's a long time. That's a long time. Yeah. And so because the next board So so we were able to pair that down. Let's say we only bonded five and six million. Let's say it's in HP back project. You're still looking at 5%. Roughly for total
038taxpayer Julie County taxpayer total. So that's some context of how we viewing tax burden. And we haven't had a bond. And I I already mentioned that the roof on the old high school that main but it was just on main. Yeah, just on the main. Yeah, this school hasn't come back. I thought I'd be curious to see where Will Springs come back in. Do it for two and a half three. Yeah. Then you're looking at 34% pretty. I think that's our goal. And I said that's Can you go build a shell? Can you fill it? been been our been the process from the start because initially with with the architect we were working with previously, you know, we we kind of said here's all the things we'd like to do and they come back and
039said, okay, here's here's here it is 3540 million and it's what the road bear and then yeah and and so we're all like okay well obviously we can't go about it that way. It's not it's not a here's all the stuff we want. How much is that? But they getting like they were inflating everything times. We could get an Hback option under seven to8 million. And we just until we figure that piece out and that cost which is the loan's a 5% tax burden. About 5% tax burden just the HVAC. We knew we had to continue to find out can we get this $78 million down to something less. Until we figure that out, everything else is harder to figure. It's really difficult when you have a group of people telling you, "Oh, you have
040to do this system. You can't do that." Another group will hear like this. It's hard to get straight answers, especially people that are trying to sell you something. But, um, we feel like we got better support from that standpoint than we've had in a long time. We feel like we have a a pretty accurate idea of what replacing the HVAC system with rooftop units would cost. We're still kind of investigating the other system that that may that may also solve our problem and maybe even even less cost. If it if it is, then I'm I'm sure there's interest from the board in in pursuing that. But what we've we've kind of like what I'm saying is we've kind of changed our approach from here's all the needs of the district, how much is that going
041to cost to here's the amount of money we think we might be able to try to put on the bond. What can we do for that amount of money? So if it's $10 million, what can we get done with $10 million rather than take the whole list at once? And what we're unfortunately finding out is you can't get a whole hell of a lot done for $10 million. I'm sure you guys are aware of that, too. But but we think we can get some pretty nice things done for that that are that are really going to improve some facilities um and do some good things for kids. And so that's that's the approach we're taking. Um I feel like this board is is fairly motivated to do that and keep pursuing that. Um and so
042you know that's why that's why I welcomed a conversation with you because if if if we do pursue that um obviously any other, you know, any other tax burdens that are that are part of that on the on the communities have to be factored in on on what's So, I guess what I'm saying is we're here to talk to you guys about what can we do to work together to try to make something happen for for both of us. We we have a project that we want to try to pursue. We're asking you guys to to recognize that and what can we do to work together on something like that? Not just from a financial standpoint, but what are some things that we could do? You know, if if we're talking about a project that's
043going to involve some new driveways at our school building or a new parking lot, is that something we can work with the county on or do we have to bring in a contractor to do that kind of, you know, those kind of is there partnerships from a from a standpoint of not just financial, but what what can we do working with you guys to work on actual facilities and that kind you see what I'm saying? We're we're looking for ways to partner, not be adversaries on stuff. And so that's that's the conversation I'm interested in having. And I I recognize, you know, you guys, you've kind of figured out about where you're at and where you're going to have to be. And I'm asking you guys on but I'm asking you guys to take a
044closer look at it and and be flexible and have a conversation with us because we we have those same kind of decisions and and you know sometimes you you you look at it and you go man we just got no choice on this. But when you sometimes take the the step back you say well there's always there's always choices there's always choices that can be made. Um, and especially when it comes to budget and and so if you know if you you know you tell me you got to have 10 mills to to keep keep things I'm saying are the things we can look at you can look at we can talk about that can can get that somewhere that's that's less than 10 or can you know you see what I'm saying are there's
045there's always choices that can be made to keep it under 10 understood. I mean, we I've only been on here a few years, but for the last couple years, we have cut in prices, so we didn't have to raise more than what we've had to raise. Well, so so have we. We have cut. Yeah. So have we. Good question. It's the same. Yeah. But I mean, you're wanting to know what will we know? Uh, what the I don't have an answer for you, Wayne. I know. What's better than giving me one? I don't have an answer for you. We We don't know. It depends on uh after she said, "Well, it depends on several different bills that they're passing and this and that." So, we're having to wait on You're left hanging, too. we're left
046hanging waiting on government to make decisions and they don't know what they're doing either. We have some of that pressure from the state legislature on spended funding and a few other you know items and then then the discussion of just we know that next year the budget starts a discussion on how all student formula funding works which is which is how we operate. So I yeah we there are several unknowns in our puzzle of what the legislaturator is going to do in the next 30 days. You know how they'll do it? They'll wait till midnight that hour. Sure. We won't have any Well, to hardly respond and then the problem becomes we can't get any more money. We're just stuck with what we get. I mean, there's You might even might even get to pay
047some of it back. There's a house bill right now that we'll be sending money back from our current budget year. Yeah. Um there's and if that continues next year, granted, this year we would lose what they've already allocated to us over 15 grand. Next year it's like 36,000. That's just off that one bill. The funding formula, there's a lot of discussion. I I'm not real comfortable thinking this, but there's a low enrollment waitings that's in the funding formula that helps out rural schools. There's a lot of discussion about them trying to take that away, which then completely undermines our budget. And I we're getting the weeds, but yes, legislative stuff concerns the heck out of me. And it should all uh just got a question for you. Just an idea. Had I don't know what
048it would cost you if you would leave your gymnasium and take the rest of that round circle off and put you up a big Morton building. That way you'd have a new acry back. We would like to see our you know if if I if I had time I'd walk you through all the process that we've gone through. Uh because I had the exact same thought back when we were when we were at this point where they said $8 million to fix your HVAC. I I had a discussion with my father and he said the same thing. He's like, "Why don't you just build something new?" And so that's how we got on this track was was I said, "What if we abandon this part and go here or you know there's there's other there's
049there's other options." Um and and we've I think we've pursued most of those to to to answer your question. Now, to the point of knocking it all down and throwing up a Morton building, probably not quite that bare bones, but that's actually kind of what we're talking about doing right now is can we throw up a steel building with walls, ceiling, and a concrete floor. And that's the project for now. And then next year, can we finish a classroom in that? And the next year, can we finish another classroom? And that that's the kind of thing we're looking at right now because we we're trying real hard to get the cost of what we're wanting to do down as much as we possibly can. Um, you know, it's whatever whatever we decide to do um
050is is going to be difficult to swallow the cost of. Um, but we also feel like we've pursued about as many different options as we can to get that cost down and still accomplish what we would like to do. Um, it's it's not it's not a bare bones thing because I don't think that that's the right solution either. We, you know, just building something the cheapest possible way is maybe not setting the district up for long-term success either. But, um, we also have children think, right? So, what we're looking at right now is is is no, not knocking knocking the building down and putting something else up. We're looking at maybe trying to add a little something on to what currently exists and keep using what we've got. It's um it's not a perfect facility.
051I my I personally wouldn't have any trouble knocking it down and building something new if we could afford to do it. That that building has been screwed up since the day it was built. Kind of my thought. It was been screwed up since it was an idea in the architect's head. I was supposed to say that architect wasn't thinking very well when he put back where he but they built those buildings all over the country and they're all they're all screwed up. Um but we have what we have we have what we have to work with and we're trying to if we got a building that's got some bones in they're worth keeping then we probably would be smart to try to keep using it. But can we improve it is what we're trying to
052trying to do. um or give us the space so if something happens we can get into another space and keep school going while we able to touch the problem. That was kind of the other aspect of that shell. Yeah. With partially being finished and just like at least we would have a place for the kids to go. It might not be ideal but it would be better than not having we were looking at quarter million plus just to put temporary classrooms in to do some of that pieces. knocking one down and putting up another one is they were going to spend a quart million dollars on temporary classrooms for a year and a half or whatever it be that would be money better spent into a shell of a building and then when we're all
053done that'll be the new shop building or whatever. Right. But yeah, the thought the thought is kind of going back to what you were asking me is and and Kenny just started to touch on it is if we if we could attach a new facility to what we currently have and move our woods and metals, shops, classrooms into that new facility, then that old building that they're currently in could be repurposed down the road for other needs. That's that's that's the that's the building that would become something else in the future. Capital outlets would and but in doing it this way and taking these steps that's something that could be done later when there's money to do it. So that's we've tried to look at this from from a standpoint of can can we do
054the initial thing to set ourselves up for the next thing down the road, the next thing down the road, the next thing down and make each one of those steps be something that we can afford to do without passing another bond and another bond and it's like we can we can do this with the bond and then we can do this with capital outlay dollars down the road. That's that's our thinking here. Um, we obviously we we would love to be able to pass a $30 million bond and just do it all, but that's we we know that's not going to not going to fly. None none of us want none of us want that or support it. So, I think it's important, you know, that we have also a building committee uh of folks
055outside this board table from different se different parts of different communities across the county that we've gone to originally and got feedback. It's been a while, but we're about to reapproach them again. Um that's happy to share that list with you because I I'm not not so sure it wouldn't be best if you had if you want they need to know this too. You guys are looking at this in the context. So we're going to go to them for feedback of we've done our homework. This is the best recommendation we think we have. We'd like to hear feedback and it's going to be our litmus test of is there support in the community. Um and we're going to look at those folks. Can you help us go you know do this? So this context of
056what you're bringing, I don't want to sell what you guys have on your plate, but I think you should be at least at the table to share that too. So that's part of the discussion um as well in some capacity. So with that three different spots that you're talking about to be honest with the people up front, but what we decided what we when we know what we're going to do, correct? Yeah. I I'm just I I we have not planned those. I steering committee meetings, but I I I I would hate for them to not know that this is a part of discussion that we're having and I hate for that fe then they find out a week later, oh, I didn't know this thing the county is going to do and now our
057feedback from them is not worth what we got a week earlier. So, something to think about as we go reach out to the community. Obviously, these are all public meetings in that context. We all need to be upfront with with the voting people because they're the ones that's either going to support this thing or they're not. They're all voted in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you got to be upfront with them. Yeah. All of it. You guys, us as well. I mean, we've all got to be upfront and and be upfront with them. So, that's something with as we plan. I think we should be in touch. You guys figure how you want to share that to share with us. I guess I wouldn't mind circle back to what Mark touched on, you know, uh the
058choices and and things we have to go through to stay afloat and to try to be feasible going forward from every aspect. But, you know, we go through our our teacher negotiations every year in regards to salary and benefits and all those kinds of things. And and we had fought for a number of years to try and get them to participate in into the health insurance, paying a portion of it, what have you. Not a popular No, not a popular endeavor at all. Um, but that was something that we worked around. We had money in the budget to kind of to kind of offset that upfront shift, but it was something that we did get done. Now, it may be renegotiated in the years coming, but uh, you know, like Brendan touched on too, where
059we have in some cases in our community people doubling up on insurance policies. It it just it gave them in to where like well hey it does cost me something to keep this insurance in place even though I also can get insurance over here for the cheap for cheaper or the same or whatever and at least I I just is and I know it's probably considered every year but I just wanted to touch on that and that that's something that we have done and made an effort to try to try to make that give our employees some stake in that so they have a decision to make not just I'm going to take free insurance. It's not, as you guys know, it's not free. No, it's not. Those health insurance premium increases are not sustainable.
060No, they're not. I mean, an hour for Yeah, but that's considerable. That is considerable. We we went to a 955 what K's referencing and that's but that's on a single family. We just pay a single family single individual plan and offer the other stuff whatever rates our plan offers but but they do pay 5% of their premium now. And like I said it wasn't popular but we were able to get it done. Took us three years. We'll see how it usually. We would have probably had done that too if we'd have stayed 100% with Blue Cross Blue Shield because where we had been grandfathered in for years, they were taking advantage of us and going up I think at one time there went to 30% that one hike that we got. say we went we
061we had I'm sure the same same one same percentages because we were doing the same kind of plan but and that's why we uh to go out of we still got Blue Cross Blue Shield as our main uh provider but we also have Freedom Claims which is picked up uh on the other end of it uh because we are able to be able to save the county several several big dollars on that kind of a policy deal that works for on there. We just hired a company this year. I forget their name. IMA um that is um I I want to say that cost us what 25 grand a year 45 a year to negotiate um and to look at all of our health options. I we didn't know this existed until Mr. brought this
062to us and they were able I just share this because as we our issue is like we have less than 100 employees and until you get over 100 employees you cannot have an effective efficient group plan in the health insurance. So that's we reached out to this company to kind of share with us um uh and they were able to negotiate with Blue Cross Blue Shield another 20 30 grand which is a half a mill down um just by their involvement. So, they've basically paid for themselves pretty close to the first year. And now we are they're also then going out to health insurance companies and bringing us back a bunch of other options. And I as a public entity, I didn't know that existed as an option until we just six months ago. They
063saved us. They got a 5% concession, which is about $60,000 they saved. And so then their fee essentially, sorry, absorbed into that savings. And so we technically with them being involved, we we saved about $20,000 through they're supposed to do that every year. All right. Yeah, they go back. Health insurance proposes very well it does and I know it's all part of the compensation package and so it all becomes about employee attraction and retention which we all have the same battle. So, I totally sympathize with, you know, you know, my wife worked for the county and I know what wages hers were like, you know, several years ago and and there's times when she thought she wasn't getting paid enough, but then the health improvement does make up chunk of that. So, I know it's
064all a mix. I just when Mark talks about, you know, are we looking everywhere we can look? I think that's historic question is just like are we looking everywhere we can look to save a buck? like we'd we'd love to offer a full family plan too, but we you know we've made the choice that we the district just can't afford that. So what I that's what I said earlier is that you know there's always choices. Um and so I the other the other thing is and you you guys know this I'm sure just as well as we do is that you know o over time your facilities have have needs there. You have to you have to invest in your facilities. You have to improve them. Um and and you you guys have done some
065of that. You know, there's your your county shop needed some improvement and that you got one. Um the hospital need was in need of some improvement and there's some pretty significant improvements there. And so and and I think all those things are are are great. Um, but I, you know, I just kind of reiterating to you that that the school district has some of those kind of facility needs, too. And that at some point, um, you know, it's some of that some of those dollars are going to have to go into improving our facilities, too. And so, I guess I'm just saying I'm asking you to take a look because you guys have done some great improvements in the last few years. It's at some point it's probably going to have to be the school
066district's turn to kind of improve some of our facilities and and fix some of our problems and and and I there's only so much pie and there's only so many pieces of that pie to go around and we have to figure out a way to work together so that we can have those opportunities to keep our facilities up to date. Does that make sense? And I'm not trying to I'm not trying to say that in a in a negative manner. It's I just trying to make my point clear. The hospital if I understood it was been done by 100% grants. I'd have to ask you guys that. So there's no zero dollars in the hospital came from tax money. I'd have to look but way I understood it was they were that was a grantbased
067deal. Well, either I'm just saying it's a great addition to our regardless the point I'm trying to make is not that not you know who paid for what is that the the point is that facilities only last so long and only serve their purpose so long and and and I'm saying we're we're we're there and we're past there of of of our facility serving its purpose and and needing some some work. Um, it's like I said, this this board, I think, is pretty committed to seeing this through and and we want to try to, like I said, make make that it we want to try to work with you guys on it and we want to try to make it something that's as bearable by by our taxpayers as possible if if we if it's
068something we pass. And so, I'm just said I'm not I'm not trying to be, you know, adversarial or anything. I'm just asking everybody to take a step back and look at, you know, what what has been done in the past um and and and where we're at and and what we can do in the future to try to make sure that we all have the opportunities to keep our facilities up to date. Is that fair? Yeah, we're all in favor, right? And we understand your offense. We've got roads with over 15,000 hours on them. We know they're going to go down. Yeah. So, we know we know where you're at. I mean, yeah. Well, we've got school buses that cost $200,000 a bus now. So, I mean, it's just it's, you know, that stuff that
069the costs of things are just ridiculous. Well, that's why we've gone. I mean, it's that. because of that and lack of CDL drivers. We now drive a lot more suburban. We're doing miniature buses like all those things. And I'm sure you guys having the same discussions. How do you get really creative? Because a$150 to $200,000 school bus. That's I don't know if I'm ready to commit what five mills to that to one bus running nine routes a day, you know, and at the same time, what's the safest way to transport, you know, over half of our kids every day? 150 plus kids, I think, actually. on a bus. So, yeah, on on the roads that you all require maintain, we're all trying to figure out this balance. We need you every day uh in the
070same context, right? Well, and it's like I said, this has been a long a long process for for us. Um, you know, like I said, longer than I've even been in on it. And and it was something that when we started, I I had high hopes that my kids were going to benefit from this. And I would say we're probably at a point now where it probably won't even affect my, you know, my kids will probably be graduated and gone. Your kids will probably be graduated and gone by the time this this all gets, you know, so we're we're not even doing it for our own kids anymore. It's it's trying to look at the long term and and and the future and and you know the next next generation even of kids, but trying
071to make sure that that school uh stays open uh stays as as current as it possibly can. Uh I think I think we all know um the consequences of you know what can happen to a county if it loses its losses its last school. you know, I mean, if if if we don't have this have a school district, if we don't have our own buildings here, then that's those are those are dire consequences at that point. So, um you know, we we want to try to do what we can to to maintain what we have and to like Bobby just said to create a facility where kids want to go, teachers want to be, you know, people want to move into this community. Um, you know, one of the one of the ways that we
072can increase our tax base is to get people to move here and and bring their businesses and and so, you know, the school district can be a big part of that. Um, if it's a place where people want to come be and so we want to try to create a facility that does that. Um, and you know, I think I think we have some opportunities to to do some of those kind of things, but you know, at the end of the day, it's going to be up to the voters to decide whether they support that or not. And, um, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, I guess. Um, do you guys have other thoughts you want to share with us or I'd welcome anybody else on the board? I've done way more
073than my share of talking today and I apologize because I'm not the most interesting person to listen to. But uh 20 25 years we were on year [Laughter] six unit by unit. That's you know it may be a $20,000 hit 20 years from now. Hey that one last and then five years later want another one. It's a great It's a great question and and yeah, I think the simple answer well the classrooms are still good. Oh, sure. Sure. And it may be the same independent go. That's that's our thinking. Whereas with million,000. Yeah, that's where we got to with the initial project where we're looking at a 7 or 8 million project that had a lifespan of about 20 to 25 years. Well, that's what the bond is going to be. So then you get
074done paying your bond and you start all over again. And so we weren't too interested in that. And so that's how we got to this rooftop unit or mini split system where it's pieces that can be replaced as they fail instead of an entire system which and I think in general the lifespan is figured 20 to 25 years on most of that stuff. But um boiler system that we would had to all the old pipes and stuff most of that's above the ceiling and that's where yeah it's it's a massive project. It was over $200,000 just put in the building because I knew we talked about it. We we what we talked about was demolishing that building and and trying to build a something that would replace the space. Replace the whole blessed thing, right?
075It's it it won't be as aesthetically pleasing because there's going to be units either on the ground around the building or up on top of it. I mean, there's some of those things you sacrifice. It's it it won't look exactly like it did originally, but that that building isn't winning any beauty contests anyway. So, um you know, it's it is what it is. The rooftop unit been gym, the commons, library, lunchroom, and everything else would have been splits. I I don't know if we got anyway. Well, think about everything. Yeah. And and when we say rooftop units, are there greater any projects in your future? I mean, I see I understand you're trying to make budget just with all your other things, but is there any other things and the steps everything in the courthouse
076is about to fall in? Nothing. Nothing huge other than go down or something and over which 15 plus thousand several of them were were on time. You got some nothing in the plans or anything. You got some lease purchases on years ago at the bank when I first started that I did a lease purchase for the county on the road the cost out since I've been there. No, but I have seen some lean purchases uh on purchase on after I had a company hit me up on it and you know it uh very much when a guy needs to do that he better look into it look like a better way to go more just going forward I commend you guys that school is and should be a point of pride for our community you
077know if you got kids then you travel around in the greater area this by far is the nicest school in Arlington as far as facilities and just gym, not just sports, but just it's nice. It's not a 1932 building and I'm all for continuing that, you know, that should be a point of pride for everybody in our district. Yeah. And that that takes a lot of money to to do that and a whole lot more than it did before. That that pride transfers through a kids. Kids see something that's put together well and kept up, they'll carry that with them their whole, you know. Yeah. Start. It's something like that, you can't put a dollar figure on it. I don't want to see our kids go into a wor down building either, you know. Yeah.
078That's why this that's part of why the CT investment. Yeah. Go to our ad shop and you go to other facilities. I've been to Hansen. That's kind of where it started. And you're like, Camp Hansen built a CTE facility using Hansen dollars and uh but it focused on plumbing and welding and robotics and all the things. And and if I remember correctly, we we received a we we got a grant for a plasma cutter, an automated plasma cutter in the egg shop, and we put it in there. We're like, "This place is getting pretty small really fast." But yet, we know that is the future our kid the education our kids need to be able to be successful, right? but to continue to try to put that kind of equipment. You look at the egg
079shop and go and and we're and we're doing some phenomenal things in there and the same with our wood shop. Uh but we could we could provide better and a source of pride and that's where that we feel like the jobs and career opportunities are going to land. Hence the career in tech investment here to do it. What's that? Is there enough kids up there to even do it? You're talking about all this technology. We continue to have interest our growth and our current tech. I'll have Sam answer that question because he's he's knows the pulse of the student. I you know our our enrollment in all those courses stay pretty consistent. Um we're looking at things that uh you know if we were to expand in some of these things how would that increase
080because you know I think we have all of you probably had some wonderful cabinets and bed frames and things made in that shop but we've never had a student go into cabinet. you know, if we were to have a shop that was big enough where they could work on framing and roofing and insulation and wiring and, you know, those skills that a lot of our kids, what kind of increase in in those could we have? So instead of having a boy like someone now work class, it's kind of the chicken of the egg, you know. I mean, it's it's hard to it's hard to wish on that stuff, but I know there are some instances where you have places like Boech or whatever they are now sending teachers up to your facility to teach. I
081mean, that's kind There's a lot of there's a lot of those tech colleges doing that. You hate to if if you build it, they will come. I mean, that's a lot of hope and just kind of whatifs out there, but like said, we have needs for locks and concession stand and restroom improvements and all that stuff. And that old building down there is in the perfect spot for a lot of that stuff. And so, yeah, it's not just about new CTE. It's also about repurposing some of that space that's already there under a roof on concrete that can be used. And and you know the the bottom line is when when that school building was designed and and for many years after that the purpose was to educate students to go to a 4-year university.
082That's that's the way education was designed. The buildings were designed for that purpose. Um and that you know that obviously worked I'm sure fine for a while. But we recognize that based on where we live and the the families and kids that we have and the the the careers that are available where we live that if if we want to best prepare at least a large percentage of our kids, we're actually probably not preparing them to go to a four-year university. We want them to have skills that translate into going to tech a tech college, going to the workforce, going to things. And and our and our hope is that by doing that, it's success for them. It's it's it's it's careers. It's a it's a it's a good living and maybe they can stay
083here. Maybe we can quit exporting our our kids. Um, and so I mean you can you can look at that facility and there's a reason why the tech stuff that the CT stuff is out in a in a separate building because it was never it was never part of the original plan. Um and and I think we recognize now that that there there's a need and and maybe even a priority of getting opportunities for our kids um to develop those skills and not just woods and and metal welding that kind. But can we offer some other techreated education that's that may you know maybe is more in electronics or you know coding maybe mechanics, drones. I mean, we've got there's there's all these different opportunities for kids um that to get an education for a
084career that they could still do here. I just visited a school in Lette County here a couple weeks ago and they were building onslab houses in city of the town. The town's the size of about Burough. They just built one. Uh the the class did it. It was run through the local community college. They had a builder and and it was lifealtering for those kids to be able to part of the project to build us a house from start to finish. And I will also tell you after traveling to that community, it was lifealtering for that community. It's the first new home that probably built brand new in that town for 30 plus years. And these kids and the community have a source of pride in their school and being a part of that. Does
085that all take facilities? No. But it takes teachers. It takes a facility to get them started. and and uh um it it takes um a system and when you see how a community integrates with that system, I'm sure you guys are probably talking about housing, too. We we had to go purchase a house for teachers. Like we ended up we started out with the daycare, but we've had teachers in it. That was not our plan, but in order to get the staff we need, that was an important piece. So, um uh they also had a a facility in there that did auto mechanics, auto body work. We're shipping kids to boy right now to do that. That's great. But again, we could supply that. They had machine tools um in in a small space where
086they could least teach them how to run CNC machines. All the things that if you're going to go work at Rinky or ADCO, those are highly soughtafter positions that these are sophomores, juniors, and seniors getting this training. I think that's where we kind of envision this is real world workforce. These are good jobs that we can and the and the system education's changed so much uh that we can now we're encouraged to adopt those practices into our school, but we've got to have a place to do it. And that's that's why that CT method I think it's important. That's why we're going to continue to pursue it. We have there's a good chunk of our kids that find real value in it. Even if that's not what the crew they ended, if they start there
087and find pride in doing that, we've seen that through our a and industrial arts programs already. There's there's skills that they learn in those programs that translate that everywhere. So, we speak we tried to spoke with your uh with your uh counselor. The county would sponsor a kid down there like the heavy equipment, pay for their school and every all of it if they come, you know, come back and work for us for a few years. And she hasn't had anybody take us up yet, but stuff like that. just Yeah, because you got a known commodity, you know, a great program down there, too. You know, building everything. Would you would you be interested if some of that's exposure? Would you be interested in maybe a work study with some kids that are already currently
088like that? Like like I I think we could look into you know, some of that stuff you don't want to you know understand. I just I don't know what that looks like. I don't know. I do other counties do work that kind of thing maybe. I mean I I can't imagine we we we I don't know why we wouldn't want to be you're one of the largest employers in the county. Why wouldn't we be sharing with our students what it's like to work for the county? Staffing is a real issue. You're having a staffing issue. So how can Yeah. I think that's an area we could work together. We got kids organic shop exterminator. I mean, who got him out doing some study all over the place? That just never Well, we just I we
089probably ought to wrap here pretty soon, but all kinds of and and we have a lot of different We have talked as a board on what we've tried to find opportunities like can we partner with local welding shops? Can we partner with local HVAC plumbers? I mean, can we get some kids hooked up with some of these people and businesses? And if you know, if we've got a entity right here in the county that that could do that, we'd love to do those kind of things. We want to try to I mean, I don't want to speak for our high school principal, but I think we'd love to get kids involved in some of those kinds or something that they don't want to be able to fit in their schedule. Maybe some places that would
090fit you get some exposure. And that's why our conversation continues to be beyond the just the HVAC nothing more is because we see all the value that comes with that added conversation. And and I you know I personally this what kind of got us on this track a while back was my my feeling is and I I speak as a taxpayer is if I'm if I'm going to be asked for a four or5 million bond to just make things just like they've been. You know there there's nothing new there to see. You know you take people in there and say here's our $4 million project. It looks exactly like it did before. Or if you ask me as a taxpayer, would I be willing to maybe support a little bit more increased than that and
091actually get some things that for kids that some new things for kids that that provide them some opportunities? I personally would be willing to pay a little bit more to to go that step above. I'm just speaking for myself on that. I know, you know, not everybody feels that way, but if if we we'd all love for there not to be that initial we've got to fix the HVAC thing, you know, if all this was we're just talking about, hey, what can we what new things can we build? This is a totally different conversation. We we've got the elephant in the room, we we know we have to take care of, but my feeling on it is if you're going to start spending that kind of money, can you spend a little more and really
092do some good things with it? And I think we can. Um I hope we can and we're going to keep pursuing whatever efficiencies and cost cutings we we can to make to make to trim that down um to something that's tolerable to as many people as it can be. But um that's that's our goal. That's where we're headed. I don't see I don't see us really wavering from that at this point. you know, the the the end the end project may look a little different, but I think I think we're pretty committed to trying to get something like that on a ballot for a vote um that that includes fixing an HVAC and and hopefully providing some new space uh for kids and programs and and hopefully I I think a a goal from the
093start has been to address safety and security at not just the high school, but the elementary school, too. That's something we've had It's especially in recent years, you know, a lot of parents, rightfully so, say, "Are we doing everything we can to keep our kids safe when they're in your building?" And I want to be able to look people in the eye and say, "Yes, we are." And I don't I don't feel like I can do that yet. Um, so that's that's part of the goal, too. Um, so we're we're committed to that. Um, and like I said, I appreciate you reaching out and having this conversation. And I will even more appreciate it if you guys can, you know, look look at your numbers and dig deep and see what you can do to
094to to try to help everyone involved get what we need to do to make this work. So, well, thanks for having us here today. We've had a lot of good conversation on a lot of different topics and think very good and to continue in the future. Agreed. I think that's that's the best way to to do it. Thank you. Uh, does anyone need a five minute break before we move on or ready to keep plugging? Bren, did you get your cobbler? You better take a big plate of that home. Okay. Um, well, thank you. Um, facilities. Facilities is next on the list. I don't We have several different topics there. I think we need to address it. He thought we needed to vote on it before we got back with him. We're just collecting dollar.
095They were just sitting on it. Well, Willow Springs, for lack of better words, went through central engineering or whatever it is, out of Pahal. They were the ones that came down. And so when I talked with him because I left Donnie a couple um voicemails, I was trying to get a number that his name was Hugo something. Hugo. Anyway, he was saying was going to be right around $4 million. If it's different, that's great. But again, we're just hearing different things till we see something. Maybe they're looking at two different right doing it. I don't know. I would wait and see. He did say that it might be a little bigger than what they by themselves, but he had talked to another Hback. I didn't know there's they could possibly work on it together. Um,
096and I guess I'll just follow up too and open it up. we had talked about or I sent out some my Friday notes about if we the CM process is like a six week process if if if that's the direction we want to go we have to put it in writing or in the newspaper for 15 or two weeks to just advertise that we're exploring that for people to look through their qualifications to see if they can apply. Then two weeks later they can submit their applications. Then two weeks later even go through the interviews. I think we should have took a five minute break. Let's take a fivem minute break. Come back at 120 since everybody's kind of wandering. I kind of thought maybe I sensed that it was time for a break. Right.
097um back to facility. I don't know if you want to revisit some of that. So, as I shared with um I have a Greg shared with me a specific ad if the CM is the direction we want to go. There's a six-w weekek process that it takes to get through to choosing a CM. The first step is two weeks that we just put something in the lo this add in local community paper that basically says we're pursu we're exploring the option of possibly looking at a CM. This is what the what the kind of the scope is and qualifications it's needed that needs to be out for two weeks. Then there's a two week where people that feel that they meet those requirements can then submit their information for I I guess lack of a
098better word application for interviewing and then there's two weeks to look into those and do the um interview. So, and then I had um member reach out and say, you know, is CMR the right way to go? So, I did not put anything in that newspaper. I remember was me last week. Oh, no. Figured, but I figured the same thing. Well, it's a it's a discussion we need to have and probably need to have today. Um, and it's I think I think we need to not only decide, sorry, I'm spitting food all over the place. Not only decide which process we want to, but make sure we all understand what the processes are. I that I and I'm I'm saying that from my my own perspective. I I know what the CM process is because
099we've kind of already done it a little bit, started it. Um the the design, bid, build, the lease purchase, those kind of things. I'm not super familiar with how that all works. I'd be interested in being educated a little more about it so I can make a informed decision. Um cuz we need to decide which of those processes we're going to use before we can really move forward. Um, I know with the CM thing how that kind of works because we kind of started that with a design bid build. I assume we got to kind of go ahead and design our project and then bid it out, which means we're going to probably have to pay an architect to design whatever it is we want to do upfront, which is a little bit different that
100that's going to initiate a cost for the design that we may or may not be able to pass a bond on. So that's that's am I right on that? being an architect. So, you may also uh you still need an architect, but but you don't pay for it until after the bond passes. You pass a bond, then that's when those companies start to get their money. With the design, bid, build, you're going to have to pay an architect to design it all and then bid it out, find out how much it costs, and then pass a bond. So, it's a different the things are in a different order. Yeah. Probably put a lot more work on debt, too. But what is the price of that? So CM I mean somebody else in the loop, they're
101going to take a piece of the pie. They're a percentage of the pie. That's exactly right. And I I'm not against it, but is it necessary? I want I I'm not against any of it. What right there? I'm not against any of it. What I'm for is trying to find the most costefficient process. Most of the time the CR I think it's three to 5% We went with design build for the elementary because and I'm having J I found that document and I'm good. I I assume you you said you never found it, right? Okay. I found it. Um HDK presented this document to us. I remember I reject you. I there are Bobby has a better memory than it was 2016 was the date years. So there are many ways to get through a
102construction process in building things with district. Most of what we do in our current the way we build things or until in recent past uh was we decide this is what we want let's put it out and then that's what we get. um that's such a design bid build process and that's really what we do for most everything we do and I'm just paraphrasing here. I had a print this document for us. We'll upload it to the drive I sent to her too. But essentially um the C says okay we're going to start working with the construction versus you just putting out a bid and telling the construction firm this is what we want to build. What's it going to cost? They are involved in the design process and building up front. what they do
103when you approve a CAM and then you you're essentially saying we're going to approve this CM uh construction manager at the front side of while we're designing it so they can incorporate their ideas cost structure give you rough estimates is what we've seen we've worked with CN Gordon that this point or until recently and essentially what they but what they do is when you the CM at some point puts a bid together and what the reason school districts love is that bid is guaranteed. It is they're going to put a bid out that says we're going to do this project in this scope. It's going to cost you this much even if you're not 100% fully designed to figure out what you're doing or if cost overruns or changes or thing like that come into
104play and happen. The issue is they're it's it's a weather problems. We can't get the concrete pores. We got to wait a month. those types of things. they buil they guarantee that you're going to complete it in this this way in this amount of time or you could put in the contract and cost so they're going to pay over rent stuff like that. the issue. And that's all great if you're working on different scales of budget and very complex projects. Like we were looking at totally remodeling the high school and doing, you know, some very invasive removal of the ceilings, all those piece, that's a very complicated staging over two or three summers and all that. Uh there's a lot of things to protect yourself against. I I I wonder if as we simplify this
105project down to a you know a building and rooftop units um the C is going to build in the risk and cost like there that's that's the downfall to it is they're I think they would accept that risk at 3 to 5%. And I don't that all that all we've seen from a CM is here's a square footage and and that's the that's my struggle with CM is here's $75 of square foot to replace the ceiling. Where do you get that? Let's change it to 45 next month. Okay, we'll change it to 45. That's exactly what we saw. Yeah. And so I think they're I mean they're doing what they do. That's building as much risk as we can that they're willing to accept and then if there's extra money they pass it on. We'll
106find a place for them to spend it. we're still going to get our percentage and we're going to protect ourselves to ensure that this remember we protect we built this and most boards in most situations are going to want that. You're going to want to say we're we're going to try to pass this $20 million bond and have a pretty good idea that at the end of building what we want, we're going to have two or three or four million dollars left over to do some other stuff. That's that really is essentially what that process does. It it takes that risk that assumed risk and generally it's at the end of it that that risk is going to turn into dollars that you can spend on other stuff because hopefully you don't have problems that
107come up that takes that money to fix those problems through the process. It's sounds great but in our I don't like in our in our situation where we're trying to get costs to a minimum. We're trying to be transparent and we're trying to not have that. I don't really want to be in that situation where I go ask the general public. I say this is we got to have this to do this and then at the end of it go, "Oh, what do you know? We got two extra million dollars. Thanks." You know, that's I I don't want to justify that. So, I I agree that we we need to probably look into this some other processes that what what's the I want to know what the bare minimum is. we need I I don't
108I'm not interested in having money left over and in my mind if we get to the end of all of it and there's some kind of money left over it needs to be paid toward the bond just that that's there's not build more stuff it's let's pay down what we've already got public we're going to do this for this amount that's what we're going to do right I agree and I think I feel like that's a general yeah the general consensus so that's that's why I'm I want to entertain this you know this discussion and if Yeah, that's that's why I bring it because yeah, we had this the board had this conversation before we started this project is what process do we want to do? We had selected design bid build early on for
109the elementary school. I think that's where this came from. You guys started out with the other. You guys started out with We started out with a CN route and realized the cost got inflated so far so fast. By the time I got on Yeah. We were looking at one. You're in the They Well, here's what happened. We were bidding that elementary school about $900,000 beat Hback. By the time they came back with a final design and said, "We'll guarantee this price." It was like 1.3. Yeah. We ended up going back to a That was CM. We went back to a design bid build process, let me engineer go and we ended up spending $700,000 for a home. But design build bid. Did we get Can we get one bid? You're good to go with that
110one or do you have to have multiple bids for choosing? You don't have to have one force. One person bids, you cannot force somebody else to bid. You're also not forced to take the lowest bid if you decide that that's not a one you want to pursue, but if you've got valid reason like this, there's going to be several different bids anyway. Just well, that's bid for this. That's the other side. That's the there's the risk because if if you have a assuming the risk if you have a construction manager, they're also guaranteeing that you will have a crew to come do your project. If you're doing a design bid build and you put out bids, there is a chance that just like at the wa that water mitigation thing at the elementary, you may
111not get any bids. If we can't find anybody interested in coming and doing our project, you're you're done in that process. Um, you know, you can keep advertising it, but so that's that's one of the advantages of the construction manager is they're saying, "We've got guys that'll come do it." That was we'll find them. The cowboy. Yep. Yeah, there's we as Garrett Garmin's words, they swing a big stick and they have crews that will show up and do the work. It's all and based on where we live and it we it's entirely possible that even with a $10 million project, you may not get somebody to bid on it. So it is there's there is risk. This is about what are we willing to spend to mitigate risk? All that all that will be built
112into the final bid if we choose it to be. But what how much we're willing to spend on risk. Could it be split into two though? The HVAC and then the addition. I think I think I think the way we're piecing this out. I do I think we could I that's my personal opinion. We would need a CM for the Hback. I think if we're building a shell, we could design bid building it. I think the Hback you could potentially just construction manage design bid build and maybe just do it in lease purchase. I think the renovations are much more complex and maybe you CMA are that I'm I'm spitballing here because we've been in so many meetings so many times the same path but we can't and we can't afford it. We're going to
113get a 12 or $15 million bid back and are you ready to pass? Are ready to go? Anybody want to put $12 million bid out there right now? No. Okay. So, how do we still do what we want to do and be really creative? And I'm sorry. Yes. I'd love to be Blue Valley or wherever else and just write one check and pass a no hike bond and just pay it off of capital out. We are not that district. Sorry about but this is the kind of creative creativity that I think you could peacemeal pieces of this out. Will it add more work to Mr. Cells? Uh probably. I most I tell you the one of the things on here too that I often wonder about we've always Can you just Okay. You know that
114medication. Can you just hire a construction manager? Like, yeah. Yes. Yeah. You don't. Well, that's that's one of them that's on here actually. Hire somebody system. Well, that's essentially our seat. As a production manager, that's often I've often wondered that if we couldn't find somebody and I actually have a name in mind, but I'm not going to say public. um who's from this community like could you help us manage this system that knows how these pieces fit, knows how to go find a builder, set up the make sure the bids are fair, competitive, competitive in the concrete work, all the things. Sorry, I'm I really want to do this and I just don't think we pass it on it and what we need and put building the risk. One more thing that I've and I'm
115not sure where I heard this from, but just to keep in mind, too, is they said based on our location, a remote location, that it might be 10% more. I I we're going to pay that. I I know, but I'm just saying that I've heard that based on the traveling else, it's going to be about 10% more versus being a suburb of city. It's true. So, just so that we all understand that, too. I doesn't ma It doesn't matter to me. And like I said, I in no means am I saying that we had to go that route just knowing that if it is that's six weeks and we we need to start moving that's the thing and that's why I say we need to have this conversation and we're going to need to make
116a decision because you there's some of these things that you you can't take the next step till you take this step. You know, you can't you can't skip it. And so if you if you're really trying to keep the ball rolling and if we have any intention whatsoever of trying to have a November election, we're I mean we're already behind. If you were to try and piece that out, what would be wrong with the addition depending on what option would we choose? Like a little theater edition that area have a CM for that and then if we put up a shell just hire a local contractor to put up steel building. Surely we could do his own bid build on the overhead on all the Hback. I think we could. I get that's who do
117you how do you this is who tells you that though I mean this is what exactly what Rosmoscore their mechanical engineering firm that says you can we'll just design it and that's what we've done we know that system and we know that we got three competitive bids and and and and he this is also pre-COVID but we made that same assumption at the last bid and we thought we'd be 20% more we end up being 20% less because we're contractors in areas and wanted this book. So, is it possible? Yes. Also, possible it's not. And then we know exactly as a taxpayer, this is what we're getting. U is this a conversation that should be had with the architect that we're working with. I can I told him a meeting and see if he'd be
118available. Also, I wouldn't have a problem taking the risk on HVAC and yeah, a building. Now, the addition that's where you could run into that's that's exactly what I was going to say. Can we can we build the addiction and not attach it yet? Yeah, of course you can. And that entry thing. I'm talking about to build to whatever the west. Can we build I mean we're we're we're putting up a pre-engineered building. This is not a this not a complex task. It's an auditorium space. It's how you modify that. How do you blend that in? Can you Yeah, that's the part that goes from one building to the other that I'm not I don't know either. I don't know. You're talking about just building another separate building next to the one we have and
119connect them with a little doorway. Well, I'm not saying we don't connect appropriately, but do that does the connecting have to happen now? I think the one design we have a design. I think that design would be difficult because it's not necessarily. I don't know the answer. If you look at this, I'm looking at their designs. If you look at this, you can leave the auditorium portion off, which is the stadium seat. They can build a wall there, which would be considered the west side of the new auditorium because that that wall come would come all the way across to what would be considered classrooms if we put classrooms in there to the south. So, I mean, you would not have to attach it. They could come back in and attach the auditorium portion. Those
120would be questions that probably have to be answered by your architect. And the other the other thing I the concern that I have is how how much are we willing to defer to the future of like like we're going to keep cutting this but but at some point you you got your project and now it's so we've done so little of it that we've committed ourselves to the future like we're hoping that that we're going to be able to keep doing these steps to to finish it out but I I don't want to put ourselves in a position where we've where we break ourselves put something there and can't use it for 15 years because we can't afford to finish it. You know what I mean? I I think those are honestly all the questions
121I'd want to ask architect. How can we do this? And and I don't know that it necessarily has to come stages and meaning over years. I think you sell it all as one piece, but I I mean I do you have to do the remodel of the high school system all at the same time that you're building your separate building and can that be staged over somewhere? your separate building you could build tomorrow with school in session. You would sell it all as one piece. It may happen over several summers, but they're really three separate projects. HVAC happens. It's going to be a summer project, but there's there's some unknowns there. If if you did it that way, does that, you know, is it is it going to add to the cost if we say
122we're going to build it now, connect it later versus build it and connect it now? It depends. depending on how you phase it, it shouldn't cost any more because if you phased it that way. I just know that's through that's through your architects and but I also know especially based on you know recent experience that it may cost twice as much in five years as it does right now. And so I that's my hesitancy on it. Looking at least purchase for our units. I think we're going to have to lease purchase something but I would and if we have extra money that's what we would pay off the lease purchase pay off the lease purchase but if we know that based on current new cap outlay dollars based on what is allocated and what is
123like remaining $200,000. So if you want to put that towards a lease purchase, then you have no money to put towards building down the road. Does that make sense? If you're wanting to piece out down the road, then you can't take the money that you're going to set aside for that to pay for a lease purchase. So Jeff, I have no idea how much we're spending in our budget comparatively where we we are where we are now pulling our um salaries for custodial maintenance out of general out of capital the general fund. I have nothing to show me context of how much that's affecting our our capital outlay fund. That's where I'm at. I I hear what you're saying that we are down to $200,000 but ultimately we are still taxing 600 well $400,000 no
124less at a capital outlay and I'm going but how come how did we go up eight mills and not not have that because when was on the board we tried to keep that mill levy down to zero and we did a pretty good job. We went to two and all of a sudden we were four. Next thing you know, we jump to eight. And and the justification for going to the eight was we knew there was going to be a big project. Yes. Coming. Can we start building into that? Yeah. And so now I'm like now there's nothing left of it. I'm struggling to understand budget wise where we're at that now we are now t taxing our full eight mills and I don't know where it's going and I I know we've made So
125your salary is on those new reports I did. Are those helpful at all? But that gives you at least your salary so you know what's coming out of per salary. I see where the money's at, but it gives me no historical context of where we've and especially as it compares to the rest of the budget. All it shows me is that salary for that section. It doesn't show me for the for the budget as a whole. So that's why I don't again and it it it makes sense today. It what it doesn't make sense is how's that compared to where we were historically because that's all it's showing me is what's this is what this month looks like or this this budget year. I don't know. last year in comparison to last year. If you
126went from four mills to 8 mills, but the amount of salary coming out takes up the four mills extra. That's when that started. It was before we went before we up we weren't paying salary. We upped it. We started paying salary which in in So when our general fund to offset that where we were paying salaries in full everything I mean is that the answer? I just say I uh saying if something moves from here to here, what went back here? Yeah, back here. It wasn't our I mean I believe it could have been salary increases. I believe it could have been health insurance. I believe it could have been a lot of things. At the same time, we were also maxing out our LLB in the same context. So I appreciate that everything costs
127more. I also looking at the backside going we were paying more, we were taxing more. Where has it gone? Yeah. But we also have had very healthy transfers at the end of the year. That's where that's where a lot of that has gone which transfer for the next year to cover. Yeah. You know, we've kind of got in that in that role of doing that. Again, I'm just I'm doing I'm saying this because the context is I I've this is a good limit test today here. I'm I'm from the community are ready to go put even five six million dollars in front of the community. Yeah. No. Okay. Because if we're not and we still want to do what we want to do, we're going to get really creative. And I'm just trying to share
128with how what this is the what I think is a potentially creative way to use all those pieces to do that. Lease purchase. Yeah. Design, bid, build, CM. Is it complex? Absolutely. But it also is a way to I I think it's worth pursuing to figure how to manage this as one big project with lots of little projects in it that are managed financially different. There's nothing that says the whole system, everything we want to do has to be under one CMA or contract. It's all we need we need one design that says this is where we want to go and then we can pull that design out. Right? My question is my question goes back to what I said before was who who helps us walk through all the navigate all of that because
129it can't just be him because he expect him to be an expert on all those things. That's a question for the architect. I mean, this is what they do to bring the architect in and they they'll give you they'll give us a recommendation whether they recommend we go with just a basic construction manager. That way, we've got somebody to if need be or if we need to go with certain sections with an at risk or we can do just design build. Do we hire on construction? When I I that's not unheard of. When I was a blue, I had an architect on hand. doesn't mean and I get that that's a permanent system but does that person exist out there just like an architecture firm that then just helps school districts or government entities start
130building things that works just for them. This is my dilemma with the CM process. There'll be somebody that work for us more than pay their salary from the wages we the problem is that they're trying to they're trying to shift the risk. That's why they want to use a CM because the architecture firm doesn't want the risk. No. and they want to build they're gonna and I would guess if and I don't know I mean he Craig has been real open to everything we've thrown at him but chances are if you ask him what process he would recommend he's going to say a CM because it's that's takes the risk off of his side of it but it also is going to increase your cost it's going to limit what we can do right I
131I guess it we need to have a conversation with him and see if he's even open to some of those other options or open to multiple options Okay. And and I'll I'll text him and see if he's available. Um in that is can are there are there a general contractors we can hire that work for us whether it's contract or an employee? They it does seem overly complex, doesn't it? Yeah. Like I mean when we go back to like why why why can we not just as a district go hire somebody locally to come up and build us a metal building up there? Bingo. Why do we have to have all these other people taking a piece of the pie that makes the that pie have to get into an 80 by 150 foot metal
132building? This is bingo. This is not a complex system. 1.5 6. I know we're going to have to have fire alarms and all the other things in putting a pit in the middle of it. I'm tell after seeing what county do it's exactly what they did. They just built a big metal building and integrated all the architect with them to help stage all the other pieces. And there are companies that will come build you a metal building. Yes, people around here do it all the time. So that's why I asked I I asked I was the one that was construction manager at risk, but put that on pause. I think there's a better way to do it. I think the district that figures out how to do this does amazing things. And I guess put
133you in charge. You figure it out. One of the other things is you talk you talked about this big project and then piecing it out. Is it this Is it this? I mean, we still don't even have a project figured out yet either. Well, but the the final scope of the project may depend on some of these things like, you know, if it's if it if in order to have it be something more affordable that basically anybody can come build for us, maybe that maybe we need to change that design. You know what I mean? Like, maybe we need to simplify the project in order to bring that cost down and and to open up the options of who could come build it. If if we've got a project that that is such that only
134some company out of Witchaw is capable to come up and build for us, then we've limited ourselves. I um and I have understanding when with the architect was everything they proposed to us was a pre-engineered metal structure and given that that shouldn't be a complex building system. It but it becomes complex when you start tying it into a brick building. Understand that. But is are is that really is that I don't not visit architect. Is that what they're doing? They're saying we're going to put you up a big metal building and we're going to tie the two together. Yes. If that's what we're doing, okay, then I think this and that's what they're going to design it for and that's essentially how they're going to stage it. I think it's doable. That's what we're looking
135at. I should say still don't understand how just building a separate building not be cheaper than that. Me too. That's what I proposed months ago. Why can't we just build a separate building? I think we here we are back. Here we are back to adding on Well, I know our plans architects given us. I think it's a I think that's really a separate building what he's proposed. It I think it is. They've just designed a way to integrate the two. Yeah. And and Yes. Well, maybe we need to change directions and just look at a separate building and not the addition. I think it's already there. It is. I think it's available. We just might have to propose it as separate entities. They put it all in one pizza then. Yeah, we can do a
136show. Easy. I don't care. You just have him I guess just on the phone. Well, I can send it. I mean, it depends on what whether you want it how you want it recorded on here. Sorry. I don't but I just You're fine. I'm looking I'm listening to this. I don't especially now. I do not want to run a bond. I don't think we can pass. I don't either. And I don't want to run a not saying we can't pass bare bones bonds because that it's gonna do is it's gonna and the next generation. I did get some information from Greg on on these that he shared when it said renovations. Yeah. I said, "Okay, so what what does that entail? Can you and again architects are going to give you square footage numbers. When
137you get someone in the construction industry, they can probably get a little more specific. But we're going to This is my point, Jeff. We're gonna continue to get round general numbers all the way through the CM process till we take it to a bond. The only way until we start putting something on it. Oh, he said he's on Zoom. Oh, so like the windows he said is about 15,000 window um general classrooms, renovations, new flooring, lighting, paint, all that kind of stuff. So I can kind of give you some numbers on that. But Greg, can you hear us? I can see him. Can you hear us? He's not indicating. still says that he's connecting to audio. So then like the secure entrance is three 325. That's by recon converting one of those. But so it
138kind of has a breakdown. You want a little bit. Can you hear us, Greg? He's not he's not hearing us. I can see but can't hear you. That's same thing. We we are log off and log back in. Just do it on the phone then see what we're see. I'm sorry. [Music] I mean, we can email that. He's already aware of that. say like the only way he'll see it is if somebody shares it on their screen here. I can email it to him. Just I say just have him call you and put him on speaker. It would be sufficient I think for us. So I want to hear back from him. Like I said, general numbers 15,000 a window. There's 18 windows. So that total is roughly 270,000. Gen classroom renovations about Sorry. Do
139you have this you could share like on a piece of paper? Yeah. Is that in here? Oh, he said he can hear now. Can you hear us? Yep. Okay. Right. I can hear him, too. I need to turn that up, though. I'm looking. I know. I I you tell it to me. It's Write it down real quick. Okay. He's He's on here. Um Hello. Hi everyone. Craig Tyson. Yeah, Craig. We've got I got some board members have some questions and so we just figured it'd be best to just cut to the chase and have you answer them because you're a lot smarter than I am. So I've just done this process a few more times. So go fire away. I'm gonna ask him. Absolutely. This is Brendan Worth on the board here. Um I have
140some questions just related to some of the processes we're having the discussion of. Do we put out a bid for C of CM? Um I have some reservations um about doing that uh just just because of discussion we've had is a CM project manager builds in the risk associated. Our concern is and our previous experience with CM is building in that risk will eventually put us in a place where we we will have to rescope the project. Um what I'm with the discussion we're having is there pieces of this project in order to be able to do all of it. Uh also to pretext this we just had a conversation with our county commissioners who u are discussing a pretty significant tax increase on top of uh our discussions about a building improvement potential bond.
141That all is factors into is there a creative way we could develop this in potential stages or pieces or parts which all would require you as an architect to help us plan that out. So and some of this is going to look at can the design bid building process be a place for some of this for instance um you know how the pre-engineered building you know that we looked at uh off to the side of the school. Can we do that? Um then maybe the remodel under a CM and then maybe the HVAC under its own design, bid, build, purchase. Are those is there a way to stage it? Not necessarily and stage it in terms of time, but stage it in terms of way we were to bid it or to a process each
142piece. Yeah, you can take out whatever you want. If you want to do metal building separate or you want to do your HVAC as a separate bid, um you can certainly do that. And uh even some of some of these pieces we've done are um within the whole if we're doing a a larger project and and they u even though um the school may want to do their own IT and and uh um technology piece you can still even bid that out separately and have the construction manager coordinate some of that uh and without having to charge their fees on top of it. So there's a lot of flexibility to it, however you want to do it. Are there districts that have ever, being a small district, we also have a discussion, we're worried about
143access to subcontractors. Um, okay. And so is there has a district ever hired their own, I would call either um contracted or in-house general contractor to help manage a project like this and found that effective. I haven't really seen that done. Um, not sure what liability that that puts you in. They still have to have a contractor's license and they're still going to have to have their own insurance. Um, I'm not if if you hire them, I'm not sure what that puts on you guys as a school district. I don't really think you need to to do that. I mean, it's um you can have a construction manager even on a construction manager on a even on a small project and um and uh and be fine. So, what's that look like for how do
144you how do you find a construction manager? Because you do an RFP for construction manager at risk, but how do we go what's the way right way to find a construction manager? Well, there's only one process and that's the state and it's a state statute that dictates that process that you use. Um, and so I'm not sure what you guys did last time, but it's a three-step process. Then I could send you that statute that kind of spells out it's a you have to advertise for two weeks and or 15 days. I'm sorry, I missed maybe rephrase my question. Can Can we hire a construction manager without the at risk component? It's done the same way as the atrisisk. But you're saying that's the same way? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, apologize. I misunderstood that. What's the
145likelihood of getting bids for that piece for the construction manager and not the at risk portion? Are there is there interest in doing that? is that um I the only thing I think that you're only allowed to do it through that state statute process. I mean, I've been doing construction management projects, if you want to call that since 1996. And it started out there was it was just construction management. There there was no at risk part. And so the contractor would come in and they are at no at risk for the time or the schedule or the or the cost of the project is basically you're paying them u an hourly fee and and they had no incentive to get the project done on time and or at a certain dollar amount because that they
146were just getting paid as they go. U and so it it really has evolved since then. That project I did in 1996 was in Canton Galva, Kansas. And um and then ever since then it has evolved to where it is what it is now. And so I'm not sure you're doing yourselves any favors that way. I'm not if you just want I mean you could hire any construction manager and they'd come in and and divide up the project however you wanted to uh to uh break out certain pieces of it if that's what you're trying to do. No, that's fair. That that that helps understand that this is the CM is something that's been developed since then and it's designed to mitigate that risk. What we're trying to figure out is how much there's certain
147parts of this project including putting up a the pre-engineered building. How how much of that risk are we willing to assume versus putting it in the CM contract? Now, there's c there's other parts of this project where we're talking about the transition from the rotunda to that uh pre-engineered building that maybe we want to put that in the se and let them assume that risk. Uh that same with the HVAC system. Would that be a separate way we could bid that out? That's not a part of this uh that risk piece. It seems simpler potentially. So, those are the questions we're grappling with this process. Yeah. I mean part of it is how many fingers you want people to start pointing if potentially you know if you do if you keep simplest ways if you
148keep everything under one bucket with the CM then you just have them to go back to if you start breaking out projects like metal building or the HVAC you might save a little bit on the fee on the on the metal on the HVAC part you know they're going to charge somewhere probably around 3% of on a fee u and so if on that HVAC piece you could probably save that 3%. Uh but if they're already going to be on site managing a larger project, you're not paying for their general conditions or the time that they're there. You're really just paying that fee part of it. And so, uh but there are some things that are worth maybe that's a a big chunk. I know is potentially a big chunk on this project that um
149if you just want to go to an HBAC contractor and have two or three HBAC contractors bid that out, that's certainly something you can do. Um then if conflicts arise, then you as the owner are kind of in the middle of dealing with, you know, who did what when kind of thing. So you could split it in two. You could split the HVAC into one and the other rest of it into a separate one. You could do a design bid build on the HVAC and uh CM on the extension and transition model, right? Why couldn't you do just a construction manager on the extension? That's well yeah that's that's risk on the the more what he's sharing is the more you integrate the systems together and you don't have the CM over that system that
150your liability of if something goes wrong they they are going to point fingers but yeah but their numbers are also grossly inflated to it's the risk cost we're trying to get our arms wrapped around of we know that risk cost and that bid you know we know we we and I trust what you've given us is as accurate as we can get today. We also know there's risk built into that from a CM perspective. Uh it also we feel like it just still tying our hands to how far we feel like we can push this uh down the road. And so what what did I heard? Somebody said their costs are inflated. Where where are you coming from with that? Well, how's the construction manager at risk going to make up for any losses they
151might incur? Their 3 to 5% fee is not going to cover very much if you have a 20% overrun. Yeah. Well, that's everybody's a little bit different in that regard. Um, a lot of times, you know, we have some construction managers who don't want to put the final GMP together until after we bid out all the drawings. So, um, and so or it'll be closer to the end. I think what I don't really know exactly where you were at previously, but I think you were maybe getting some estimates that were very preliminary and had had a lot of uh and they're pretty conservative. And to your point, that's where you can really hurt yourself with a construction manager because if you end up cutting scope, you can't get back then uh because their estimates aren't
152are too conservative and that's where you can run into problems. Um but I I I think you can we can manage that. Okay. And I guess what I just tell you where we're at in the process right now is you're going in if you go in and do all the CM interviews and and hire a CM, you're not committed to them for the whole scope. You're not committed to them for you can break it out later and and kind of negotiate how you want to do that. So, uh, we have to give them something to say, hey, this is kind of what we're headed, but that doesn't mean that's the end of how it's going to be. I mean, say I sent we send out a a uh an RFP for u construction managers and
153it's based on one of the options I sent. They're going to know it's maybe a $12 million project. Uh but then when they come in and and and we start to really get into the details of it, maybe you tell them then you want to split off this metal building or or the HBAC and and we can they can show you what that's going to look like from a savings perspective. Um and so it gives you a lot of flexibility and share I asked the um the health center the new rec center we got. Sorry just I got a little sidebar I want to share with the board related to building. We just built a new rec center in our community. It's 5,000 square foot and it cost them $200,000. That's $40 a square foot.
154Um, now there was several volunteers that came in and helped manage that project and put things together, but I I the scope is still and the cost per square foot still intrigues me because even in a shell level, we're still talking $125 a square foot. Um, and we're talking about twice the size of the building. Um, that was flat work that was constructed. So, I didn't realize you could split pieces of it. Even though you hire a CM, you could still pull out pieces. Let's say the HVAC and Willow Springs went through the HVAC. They don't have to have any piece of that. That's if we found a contract that would just do the HVAC. We have to go to the CM to do that. Correct. No, you don't have to if you don't want
155to. 3% of four and a half million $135,000. No, if it if if if that's if it's truly 3% that seems like a steal at twice the price. If it's truly 5% is 225, just four and a half. I just that's the Hback, but I'm looking at the shell and I after I shared with you what we did our rec center for locally is $125 square foot bid as a shell. And that doesn't seem unrealistic off the top. Um it's still 1.1 million, but when I know we just built something in the community for less than half of that, that's the question I would ask. Why is this Why did we do that? How do we do this for 40 or 50? And how's this one costing 125? Part of that's labor though because all
156the labor was Well, it's interior pieces. They're building contingency. I'm just there's risk. So that's that's why the bid for a pre-engineered what you're you design that's why the design build bid process is appealing to me is because we know exactly what that bid is going to look like which is exactly what our community is used to and we know that that bid to do that shell is what it is. Um and we know exactly how to then go uh pay for it because then we'll know exactly what it cost us. Um, I mean, there is that you're getting you're getting the best you're getting one number on on one day and you might have some contractors not get a good price on that bid day and then and I guess the way I always
157explain it is, you know, we're sending out our drawings and we're saying all your bids are due back on May 1st and all these subcontractors are going to put their numbers together and they're going to give their numbers to the general contractor 9:00 a.m. on May 1st or whenever right before bid time and they've got to uh figure out how these all come together and they're going to be taking the lowest number that they can because even if they don't know everything that's in it because they're they're want to get this number. Well, you're you're you're getting that number on bid day, but you're not that contractor. He's not really incentivized to help you. He's incentivized to get the the lowest number and lowest bid. Um, and you also get a better warranty service and
158a better response for from a CM than you do out of a just a direct bid process. Um, because the CMs want they want the uh reference for the next project whereas a just a bid project, you're not necessarily you're you're getting some guy to come in and just get the job done. So, um, I'll give you an example. I I did a project for uh uh Pratt Skyline. It was a $ 1.5 million project for a storm shelter edition and locker rooms and they wanted to use a local contractor and uh so uh we went through the CM process and we selected we were able to select the lowest contra the local contractor um and we went through the process and it was supposed to come in at 1.4 4 million and he said
159it could come in at 1.4 before when it uh um when it uh when we were going through the early process, but on after it all bid u you know came in at 1.7 and so u you know he couldn't commit to doing it for that obviously and so I said okay this was in the fall said well projects they come the best time to bid a project is in January and everybody's starting out the new year I mean I've gone through talked to a lot of other people about the best time to do a bid project in January is about the best time you can get. So we said let's just wait, put it out for bid and do a design bid build and see what we can we can we can get. Well,
160we went through this the design bid build process. The same local contractor bid on it. We had a couple others uh came in at $1.8 million. And and so you're not guaranteed to get the lowest or best bid. you're just guaranteed to get the best bid on that day. So, we were able to to work some things out and and get it back down to the the 1.7, but that's my worst example I can tell you of how we're all hoping a design bid build project would come in better, but it it really didn't. If we were to do a $10 million bond, use a CM and it ended up costing eight, you pay the 3% on the 10 or the eight? Yes, the eight. So, what's your incentive to save us money? My incentive?
161Yeah. I just want you guys to get the the most get the project that you want. So, I'm not interested in it. Doesn't do me any good to try and give you a $16 million project when um I mean, yeah, financially it does, but that's it's not how we work. Thank you for Thank you. That was one of my questions is what's the downside bit build? And I you shared that and I I know there's a downside to it and I appreciate you sharing that context but it doesn't but design bid bill does have the truest price transparency though correct? Oh it's yeah it has the truest price transparency. Um it's a uh um it's with a CM process there is a lot more trust involved because you may you're not going to know everything
162on bid day. We might bid it in stages and and it's a lot harder for some and and it's warranted because you're not going to see that total number on one day that says until more towards the end of the project if this is what it's going to be. So it's a it's a not it's a more transparent process but it's not a you know there is a little bit more trust involved. How do you select a CM based on trust? Um, well, like as a decision maker, what am I looking for? And and the nice thing about the CM process is you get to see the team that you're going to team up with. So, we bring the we have them bring their project manager and their superintendent to the to the meeting to
163the interview and then you get to interview them and make sure they're a good fit for you guys. If on a direct bid process, you don't get to see any of that. you get they can throw the most inexperienced guy that they have to lead your project and you really don't have any say in it. But when you get to go through the interview process, you get to see who you're going to be working with for the duration of the project and and make sure that you're putting the right people on the project. And so and then so you see that and then you see you're you see a lot of the same players on the CM process. And so I mean I know a lot of the people who a lot of the contractors
164who would be interested um I know a couple in particular that I know would be interested u and can help walk you through that process. All right. um in that CM selection when you say you have interested contractors, how important is references and and what's that look like a hiring a CM for a small district versus a larger district that's I mean we're much much closer to the decisions of what the contractor is going to make, right? Yeah. So, uh for smaller districts, you see the board get more engaged with the whole process. on larger school districts, the board hardly is is not that engaged with the process. And that's not a good or bad thing. It's just the way it is because like you said, you're closer to the decisions than than they are
165in a large school district. Um um so sorry, I'm not What was the part first part of your question? What what would we be looking for from a CM given being closer? like how are there references we should be looking for projects like that knows that we're going to be closer to the project than a larger district? Yeah, everybody's a little different. I mean, some like uh when we interviewed in Pratt, uh Tony Hford, superintendent there, he did probably the most uh reference checks I've ever seen a superintendent do. And he also came and visited projects and looked at looked at looked at different projects everyone had done. So, uh, yeah, I would I would say you're, uh, you know, you're not necessarily going to want the Kansas City construction manager. You're going to want
166somebody who's a little bit more um, of a small to mediumsiz contractor. That's the best way to put it. And, and there are those I know that are interested. Thank you very much for answering my questions. Anybody else have The other piece of it that the whole the whole uh um industry has kind of gotten towards is that and this has happened more since COVID that it's just harder to manage the subcontractors uh and and understand on bid day what their bids actually include because they'll have exclusions and it sometimes now takes a week to vet out all that on the construction manager side to make sure that they have everything everything is supposed to be included that is included. And we've seen that more and more since in the last few years and it
167has made that job a lot more difficult. I that's why I think also the design bid build is a tougher way to go because of the exclusions that that may occur on on bid day. U and then there's another point I and then a lot of the a lot of the quality construction managers just do not bid projects anymore. they just only want to go through CM process or through the uh negotiated process for non-public projects. So that's kind of how we see things kind of trending. That that is a change that that's happened over the last 10 years. You say even more so the last five. Yeah. that helps me understand I don't know about the rest of you but what the decision that we have to make today and how to move forward.
168I didn't know we had all those options. Again, I appreciate you sharing that context. We've never really had the discussion of a CM the best option for us and what options all exist before making that decision. So, thank you. Well, I would just also say even though you go through the process, you're not committing yourself to any to spending any money on anybody towards um well, we were hooked to a CM, you know, and and we released that, I gathered, but it was a much larger system that I don't recognizing resource or I'm sorry, reference checks is going to be an important piece in selecting that. Uh I think I don't remember doing that before. Did anybody remember that? They showed us all the jobs they had done. Yeah. Yeah. And had nice. But did
169any of us visit with them? Like I don't I don't remember visiting with a school district that of similar size that had that experience. Did you guys have to pay them anything? No. No. Yeah. Um does anyone else have any other questions? It doesn't even have to be related to the CM thing. If you have other questions about the Jefferson, you had a thing a spec sheet on some certain things. I put it in the drive connecting the building. Yeah. Um Greg, we we were in in all the different scenarios we were talking about. Um, one of them is in in looking at the most current drawings that you've done where we're adding a addition onto the west side of the building that that ties into the theater. Uh the question was asked um is
170it I say is it possible or would would there be any possibility of of building that new building but not currently tying it into the theater like having it be separate with the option of tying it together later? Is that is that possible or is that way over complicate the project? Yeah, I'd say if you wanted to do that, I probably would just build to the north and not mess with going to the west. The best thing about tying it in where it's at is that it seemed like the little theater was an underutilized space and and you could by by connecting it, we'd basically be taking the roof off and the whole structure off and making it a two-story space. And that whole building of course drains towards the edges since it's round in
171a dome. And so we you'd be draining up against an addition. Um and so that's the part that gets a lot more tricky by doing what you're asking. Um I I think it'd be better if we're going to do it to tear that roof up, make it a twotory space, infill that floor, flatten it out. You guys will get a much better use out of that area uh by doing that. And but if you don't want to do it, I mean, I understand. I would probably just build to the north end. Yeah. Well, we're just just discussing every possible scenario, but that Thank you. That's helpful. I mean, what he's if if you you make the theater roof higher, then you've you've got your roof through your new shops higher, too. That's those need to
172be taller buildings. That's why that would all be basically a twotory structure. But so that's why be integrated together. And and we we've talked in conversations we've had with Greg is if we've looked at the current spaces we have and if they're best being utilized and and that theater for taking up a fourth of the space is you're not getting a a fourth of the amount of use out of it. You're getting a very small amount of use out of it. So what what we're talking for banded vocal can we can we improve that space increase the size a little bit and use it a lot more than we're currently using it. That's that was the how that came together. I love that idea still. I we do that in the theater without adding on
173to it. You're not going to make it any bigger without adding. No, we give it a face. You're not going to have it wouldn't be able to be utilized as a as a um multi-unctional space. It would be just a theater. I mean, you can renovate it, but with that this other design, it would be a flat floor, so you could use it for a lot of other that was the the intention was if you're going to touch that space, you would do it so in a in a manner that would allow you to utilize it more in the future than you currently have. Whereas, like if you just kind of give it a facelift, it it's not any bigger. It's not any different purpose. It doesn't, you know, does that make sense? What if
174you filled it in, put a classroom in there, and just made the shell bigger? Uh, that's what this is. Stealing drops also, too. So, there are some issues. No, I mean the shell completely separate to the north, but yet build a theater, then turn it into a classroom. Uh, then you could do that, but then you don't have a theater anymore. No, you put it in the new one. And then you've added a space that we don't have added in there yet. You know what I mean? Like right now, that's the plan that we have is two shops and some classrooms. Yeah, but if you're a steel building, your square footage space is going to be cheap compared to brick and mortar on that theater. Hey, now you're going back to what I was talking
175about months ago when we said, "What if we just build a big new building that's got all these things in it?" And I still don't understand exactly why that's not more affordable than it is. But because that's what we we had talked about. If you if you build a new building to the north, can you build a a space in that that is a cafeteria doublepurpose? And again, to get out of the old theater. Yeah. Um that's we've we've we've explored that. Um but if it it comes down to kind of what are you going to try to add something on that ties in to what you have and can you keep what you have or do you start replacing those spaces with new spaces and abandon them? I'm just trying to figure out a
176way to get the initial bond costs down and string it out. I didn't I didn't realize you're still h back in the You're still h back in the rotunda. Yeah, it's a big chunk. Unfortunately, I don't I'm not sure you're g no matter what project you do, unless you cut it down to just fixing the HVAC, I'm not sure you're really going to cut that much more more cost off of what we're trying to do. Um the only the only way I and this my opinion I don't fact on it but the fact that we've explored all these different things gives me a little bit of confidence to say that I without just cutting it down to the bare bones I I don't think you're going to you know if if you're wanting to do
177a five or$6 million bond project you're going to get your HVAC fixed and some minor re renovation. You might get a new front door or something. I mean it's just you're not going to get any new space doing that. So, I'd be a little concerned about hooking onto that old building with a steel building for leaks and stuff. There's always concerns tying into an old building. You have to upgrade and sprinkler everything if you add that much addition. Good question. Greg, do you have an answer to that question? You have to. You don't have a sprinkler in there now, do you? No. Yeah. Um, I want to double check that. My initial answer is you don't need a sprinkler in in there. But u I think it's the new building is separate that would it's
178a 10 or 20% um number. Um well there's two there's two ways to do it. Um sorry I'm just thinking thinking out loud here. But you can you can renovate up to I think 20% of your building and not have to add a sprinkler system. Or what we would be doing is uh for instance at that at that uh little theater we'd be putting firewalls in. So you could basically separate out and count it as two separate buildings and and then you don't have to do a fire sprinkler either. Okay. So, all right. Then I have one on one of these shares the new facility to the north. It says new 7 through 12 facility shell only $35,000 square foot at $350 a square foot. That I don't know what option. I think that's option
179one, but I don't know if those have changed. And then this one says new woods metals. Yeah. Yeah. Uh it is. Yeah. New woods metals and flexible CTE shell at 125. at 3.05. There was a 25 $25 difference. Yeah. I don't know what which drawings even which versions of which drawings that would I don't think shell only was Yeah. I'm just that that they they both say shell only. And I don't think $350 a square foot was No, if I put that on there, that's not right. It should not be. It shouldn't have said shell only for 350 bucks a square foot. Finish school on that side, right? The way long ago, option one had two separate buildings. One was finished, one was shell. Correct. And there was two different prices. And I think there
180was a typo on that where it had still only was only 80. And the new facility on the west side was 300. So it was still a lot less than that was November. That was the original. Yeah. The only the only devil's advocate point I would make on the energy about trying to get away from a CM is I just I'm trying to connect it back to how my mind would work. You know, there's it's insurance and there are some farmers that can farm without crop insurance and there are some farmers that can't. And what school district are we? I'm not saying we can't, but we just need to consider that when you know that risk is real. Take out a level of coverage you're comfortable with. I I pull them off this HVAC and
181I totally get that. I just don't want us to lose sight of like what risk means to this district versus a valley district or something. I might Can I help with that a little bit? You're paying on a design bid build versus a CM, you're paying the same fees. One suggested to a general contractor and the other to a construction manager, which is basically essentially a general contractor. There's no different insurance you have one versus the other. um that 3% that you're paying to a CM, you're paying to the general contractor underneath the overall bid of the project as their fee. Yeah, they get they get you. Yeah, it's all in there. You just don't see I I'm just I'm skeptical savings would be worth it. I'm not saying we're not saying everything and we're
182asking right what you don't what you can't have happen is have somebody bid something come in do half the job and say got to go see later and then never come back where's your well what he intrigued said intrigues me that he has CMs that are interested that are have done small to medium our previous CMR did it didn't have much of that in that portfolio if I remember correct they had big stuff yeah it It was impressive. It was awesome. But I think that was where that we just couldn't figure out a way to make the practicality of what we need form over function function over form is a priority for us. So in selecting a CM, I'm I'm confident we make that choice. That's going to be a lot of our questioning is
183can you can you do function over form because that's what that's what we need. We needed to be very functional space for a, you know, versus the aesthetics of the end. And we're not looking at passing a $10 million bond, having it done for eight, and then using additional funds to do other improvements, go right back into the bond. It's been helpful for me. I appreciate it at the time because I Well, it's interesting interesting to know that we Yeah. I mean, we get the CM. He can do these two things. You still have options. I didn't know that. I didn't. Say we find a company that does the rooftop units just blows us away. They can just do that. That doesn't have to be part of anything else. Anything else you guys have for
184Greg? Thank you so much. No problem. at this point. All right. So, we're we're good. We can let him go. Yes, I think so. All right. Thank you, Greg. I think that's all we need today. Thank you. See you. So much has changed and I didn't I didn't realize that from when we were doing this in the previous project, but you know, holding subs accountable. I mean, I go back to what Sam has mentioned one time. We 10 years ago, we got a bid. Here's all the doorork knobs and everything. I I gathered from him that postco that doesn't exist. That was really handy. It was really nice. Hope we can find that again and not forget. Contractors are very much like it's four million to do the job or it's zero dollars to not
185do the job. Right. I'm on to the next thing. I'm not going to waste my time counting doors. change. But but if we can identify that CMR that understands like I said where our values are this is we are looking at metal buildings cost per square foot's important to us that function and we will fill in the nice things later and help us you know move this along. That's I think that's what we're looking for. I think it's going to take some diligence on our end to interviewing CMs to ahead of time check references visit with school districts that have used them because I think the same context with this architect. I think I do I think deep does a good job understanding what we're trying to at least get to. We need to find
186that same thing in the ceiling. It must be well below all where you guys are right now. just on a functional level, something that keeps bothering me a little bit because I don't want to have something happen and then all of a sudden it's wasted. That that little theater area is not very well used or not used very much. Um, but I I'm just concerned that if we do a renovation there and make a multi-purpose room, a will it really be used anymore or b will it crisis out of where we want to go when the multi-purpose room that we would now have would be the wood shop once it's emptied out if we can get this um built. I just don't know what I would do with another multi-purpose area. And that's just me
187being limited on my thoughts, but I just don't want to talk about where they where we go to the west and Yeah. Like you guys have said going just to the north there and just getting the classrooms in. I think I think the thought process was wasn't it like our winter concerts and our spring concerts and all that stuff that has to take place on the gym. Would there be a big enough space to take the pressure off the gym? I'm just saying that's what I think I heard or remember that that could be but we're talking how what's the cost? Yeah. What's the cost versus using the gym twice a year for a music concert? I understand that. But I think there's that's where that was where some of that came fill that in.
188Build some classroom that little theater is. I mean I even think too of robotics for instance you've got a wide open space if you want to use robotics or if it's if that's two story could you try to fly some you know if drones ever you bring up some of those possibilities being able to offer when do you have more space I mean I'm just spitballing I'm looking at well building to the north of 150 by 250 foot 35,000 square foot I becomes a lot more that becomes a lot more appealing knowing that this was no longer a pre-engineered building. We were looking at to do the theater. Um, and the same concerns like what what would we use that space for? We have to have a theater somewhere. That's just that is a requirement
189of a school space. Yeah. Well, like I said, the the way that all came about was when we when when we had a discussion with him and we're we're talking about the spaces that we have, you know, we we mentioned that that that theater is yeah, a space that's it's underutilized versus the percentage of the building that it takes up. Um, and we also mentioned to him that when it's utilized, it's not big enough. if you've been there for eighth grade promotion. Yeah. PE there's people standing in the hallways because there's not enough seats. And so that that was the discussion that we it's like, well, if you're going to if you're going to continue to try to use the space, can we use it better? Can we make it bigger so that we don't
190have parents standing out in the hallway because then because they got there too late to watch their kid get promoted? Um, and can we make it a space that is not committed to just being a theater? Could it be classroom? Could it be a band room? Could it be something that's used during the day instead of just in the evenings? That's that's how that came about. Now, if the if if we decide that's money that, you know, throw in good money after after bad on that and you just leave the theater like it is and let's build something new somewhere else, it's fine. That's the direction we give the architect. But, um, that was that was where that came from. that when we committed to and I feel like we committed to keeping the rotunda
191then we started looking at how does it function how can we best use the spaces that are in it if we're going to keep it and that was the idea came instead of using new seating I mean the lighting you should get in the control room seriously has the 1960 lever we just bought uh some lights that we can't buy again. I bought every one they had because they're done. They will never make them again. They couldn't believe actually they still used them. So I I bought I tried to buy four cuz that's how many they had. In the end I only got three. So as they go out we cannot replace them. Well, what I'm hearing you don't think are used value of it. I don't know because I don't know we've ever gotten
192a a complete estimate from them on this is exactly what it will take to build this part and this is exactly because he just kind of lumps it all into building renovation and but I mean twotory tying it into a circle brick building I you know that's not changing. So the twotory for the little theater part does that mean you can put seating up above too to add more seating in that area? It's not seating. It's not seating above it would it's bleacher type seating with with seat stadium type not stating it has to be theater type seats you're going to build this building for the shop it's going to be so much there's going to be some empty space in there of the Here's it would it would you'd have you'd have your current
193theater shape um you you would fill in the floor so it's a flat floor and then they bring in the the seating seating is it's just like the seating in your gymnasium where you fold it up against the wall, but when it's folded out, it's it's theater chairs. It's padded chairs. It's not like benches. Um and and by doing it that way, you increase the capacity, put a lot more people in, and you also allow it to be folded up. So then you have the entire space you could use for something else if if that was determined to be a useful space. The other way to use it would be like you mentioned, it becomes the band room. You repurpose the band room as a locker room that we need a fourth locker room. It's
194got water. It's got drainage. Uh I don't know exactly what that renovation would cost. No, but because I've been thinking about this and that thinking about this because of him right over here and say something. Why is it that there are how many locker rooms have our girls gone into where they step down into it or where we have to step up into the locker room? I would say it's in it's other different schools we've gone to for volleyball and stuff. Girls usually good policy policy but anyway you know that they've been something else at some point in time. So they've leveled it out low and just put steps down into it. So I mean you've got everything else. So there's no reason why they couldn't use it since this because we talked about the
195ceilings being so too short. Yeah. Too low. Yeah. Well and again there's there's something You want to do your band and your vocal anyway if that's where you're going to I would think so. I I mean maybe you maybe we need to talk to your music teacher about that like eighth grade promotion. I need to watch that closer because I know there was one year with co we did eighth grade promotion out in the gym because we were already set up for graduation the Saturday before and they just used the same professional that instead of walking and so there was plenty of seating. I I I I agree. And and but then since then, the last couple times I've been there, that that was my question, I guess, was why aren't we still doing it
196in the gym? Because there's there was a dozen people had to go stand in the hallways where the lockers are because there Okay. Well, then now I know who now I know who to accuse. So, but then then the other side of that is you got your athletic director that's worried about the condition of the floor. Sure. On the floor that we can I get that too. I get that too. And and so I know one I know one of the things you you know you're asking for the multi-purpose room to take over some of those things like Kenny just said your Veterans Day program maybe even your you know I know junior high kids get sent down there after lunch to go burn off some steam. Maybe they could go into that space so
197you're not constantly on that floor. And maybe Brendan's right that um it would be just as easy to if you're building a new structure right there to the north that you um include the new auditorium that which would be right by the parking lot as part of that space with the bleachers that you were talking about and it would be a multi-purpose room there. And then you still move the band room to the uh little theater and use it as a classroom that way and repurpose the band. And then they can still use it for plays or would you do plays in the place? But again, we're just adding square footage which adds $350 per square foot or whatever. So it's cheaper. Our architect can do any of those scenarios. You just But we we
198got to give him the direction to do it. And that's you know we we have taken suggested to him suggestions to him and this is what he's he's come up with and if it's if this isn't the direction you want to go we need to give him a different direction. He, you know, he'll he'll provide you with whatever you want to consider, but some of it is us needing to make a decision on what what is it we want to do rather than constantly going to him and saying, "Give us more options." I need your thoughts on it. Well, I'm struggling. When we started talking about going to the north, I all I look at the 12.3 million 12 million price tag and I don't know that that's right now question but the big the
199elephant in the room then is are we banning the rotunda or not? Well, I think this plan does this kind but I don't but I don't I don't I struggle with banning those. This plan does I think this plan was designed to totally abandon the recon. Yes, that's why that building is so big. Yeah, that's Yeah, exactly. So if we scaled that back to do still our career tech, maybe the auditorium or if nothing else have couple classrooms in there, not all the classroom, but add a couple. I don't know about the theater, honestly. I I love this concept um of making that space what it's intended for, still be what it's intended for, but totally moving and creating that a whole another space. I I'm trying to envision what that what value that brings.
200It's usable all the time. I don't want to create another space that's only used part of the time, right? I don't know the efficiency of it. I'm sorry. So that's why the addition to the west didn't make that and the theater needs something. It is it's it's useful life is up because if we're going to build to the north and then put in a second theater that's bigger, but we still have old one that we're not abandoning at some point then. Yeah. because I am I'm like I I I see a separate structure still being the most cost-effective functional piece that we can afford still get the most square footage. Um I don't disagree building back to the field. Yeah, you'd have to figure out your traffic traffic flow and foot flow a little bit.
201Let's do that parking lot. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I think any of these scenarios are going to require a new parking lot of some kind, new driveways, new parking lot some they didn't jump and say, "Sure, we can do that." That's what that was my favorite part. It was the deer in the headlight. Yeah, they didn't when you asked about having them do some work for us. Yeah, that went over like a balloon, didn't it? Well, what? So, we can't get if we're comfortable moving forward with getting the stuff put in the newspaper to explore a C. Part of what needs to go in that publication is an approximate dollar amount scope. Now, if you're talking about going away from what we've been talking about to something different, we're not we're nowhere close to being
202ready for that. 10 to 12 of them. I don't know if you can just throw out a between five and 72 minutes. I I think you probably need to have be pretty pretty close on a scope. I mean, I know I know 10 and 12. I I get and I get that. I'll have to ask Greg if we can put it part of the CM provides design phase consultation and evaluating cost schedule construction issues and alternate like that's their role I have no problem putting that scope out there and saying there are some I think we need some design phase consultation I think we know that figure we can dream of being that's what I feel like Kenny I think we've we it's 12 or 10 I think instead of trying to design the project
203and then whittle it down whittle it down to the dollar amount. I think we know what the dollar amount is and we just say this is it now. Make make those dollars work to the best of what we want to try to do. This is the point of using a CMA. You got your construction guy right in the middle of design phase. Let's use it. If we're going to do it, get your money's worth. Yeah, you use all of it. So 10 to 12 doesn't work. I'll ask him if I can do the hyphenated. That's what we got. You got these, right? And the the one that he hyped up said 12 million on it because I think both of these were right around 12 million. They were all around 12. It's what you guys
204asked for. You when you he brought the first things you said you everybody kind of said no more than 12. We just know we can't do more than 12. So we went back to him and said no more than 12. So he came back with three options that were about 12. And then we kind of said okay 10. No more than 10. And so we kind of went back to him and said okay no more than 10. And that's kind of where we left it at that point. And at some point you got to settle because we can go back to him later and say, "Okay, no more than eight. No more than eight." And it's just going to We truly all believe we can do it cheaper in some fashion. Whatever whatever that process
205is, then I think it's fair to start out at 10 to 12. Pray to God we can do it cheaper than that. I just want 10 to 12 in my mind doesn't mean that's the bond. Yeah. That's what we're willing to spend. I just need to get I'll need to get back with Greg to see can we have a range in the statute of our posting or does it have to have a specific cap dollar amount. So I'll have to find that out but because if I get that answer I'd like to get this to the newspaper like tomorrow by three. Is that what it is? We have to have it in Tuesday by one. By one. Um so that we can kind of get keep moving forward. Well, I I think what I'm hearing
206and feeling is that everybody's most everybody's okay with going ahead and doing that. Um that was good information today to find out that, you know, there we're not we're not really committed to everything. And in fact, we still have some options even if we decide to hire somebody. We can still break parts of the project out and give it to somebody else. And so and and we we already know from experience that we can hire somebody and cut ties with them and not cost us any money. So, I I don't see a lot of downside, a lot of risk to it. Um, and if we want to keep the timeline going, keep the ball rolling, we're going to have to because there's I I know November still seems like a long time away, but I'm
207telling you, it's not. So, thanks for again, appreciate the design discussion piece. That was that was a concerning part to me, but there are lots of factors that have changed. I have found most of my conversations with with Greg to be very informative and to be the answers that I get are very clear to what it is I'm asking. I I I found him to be a lot better than some of them and you know I feel like I ask him something and he gives me the answer that I that I need to help make that decision. So I'm right. Yeah. Yes. So okay. All right. That was a lot. Um, we are ready to move on. I guess unless anybody has any last things on facilities. Last chance. I guess the only thing is
208I put that in the drive. Those are still round numbers and in a construction someone in the construction industry can get a little more spec specific, but again, as we get deeper into that, I don't know, someone brought up a while back about windows. Well, that kind of tells you what the window cost. That's great. That is Yeah. So, so that's information that we can keep. But even there, you know, and there's and do you think, well, I know it ain't much, but maybe we cut a couple windows out. You know, there there's always it's like the discussion we had earlier. There's always choices that could be made. So, whether people believe that or not, um, right, some of them are tough, which makes them hard to make. Uh, I would ask that everybody kind
209of be open to having more special meetings as we go along. that there's just no way we're going to tackle all this at our monthly meetings. Um I don't have anything set like for the next one yet, but I I would say expect to maybe maybe have one a month from now on and and we'll try to make it work for everybody. Understand it's going to get busy and not everybody can make it or if you can zoom great. But I just I think it I think it's good to have these kind of meetings where we're really kind of focused on one or two things rather than 50 and then at the end of it get to the other. So, uh, just I'm just asking you kind of stay open-minded and keep your schedules open
210about that. All right, we are ready for executive session a non-elected personnel. Can you go 10 minutes with Sam? I think we uh Mr. President, I move to go into executive session. Mr. Sel and Mr. My pres president to discuss employee contracts presented for non-elected personnel exception in coma. The open meeting will resume at the boardroom at 3:00. Second. All those in favor 70. I think so. Thank you. We are back in regular session. I think we have action. I would entertain motions. I move to accept hire of Jeene Humphrey for junior high secretary for the 2526 school year. Second. All those in favor? 70. I move to hire Andrew Goward as high school business teacher for the 2526 school year. Second. All those in favor? 70. That'll come with Okay. Um I believe we
211are ready for 5B. How much time? Uh, this is 10 minutes. Mr. Mel put together. Mr. President, I move we go into executive session. Mr. present to discuss his border employee negotiation pursuant to the exception for employer employee negotiations under coma. The open meeting will resume at the boardroom at 3:15. Second. All those in favor 70. You're done with me. Thanks. So, thank you Sam. notes from last time. Of course she does. You know she does. I just I'm not sure I have the energy to get really involved back in open session. I'll get on last year. We don't have to meet. I just think we can communicate. Come on. We'll need to get with Janet on the letter. I will have it all typed up and I'll send it to Janet so Janet can
212take care of it for us. Can I ask a question? Yes. So, are you guys going to are you putting article 4 in for your discussion for on leaves? Article four. What part of it are we talking about? Uh right now it says that they can only take a minimum of one hour. Uh a lot of them would like to have 20 uh quarter hour increments. So that's one of the notes I all year long. They need they need to ask well because they're because they're doing it. They're taking it. So, article 4, section one, we've we've had this discussion and I've made a teacher super super angry. Um, and I don't always catch it. If they take a if they take a quarter of an hour, I don't catch it. If they take 13
213minutes, I will catch it because it blows everything out. Um this is section A number seven. I think in here we allow them to take at one point they can only take two a quarter of a day two hours at a time then we lowered that. If it's been an issue and it's come up then they should bring it to us. That's my opinion. I mean, if you're trying to hold it to the negotiated agreement and what's there and they don't Well, the thing is is sometimes I'm not going to catch it because I don't micromanage their time and so I might catch it when you take 20 minutes and I might catch it and then you're going to be really mad at me and talk really bad about me to everybody. I I understand
214that piece of the clarification. Okay. because it's not always consistent because if I I mean if I don't if I don't if they do a quarter of an hour and I don't catch it versus if they do 20 minutes and I'm like that that doesn't doesn't work to negotiate an agreement. So anyway, that was just one of the notes that I had taken this last year. So I got that. How about a note? We can discuss it. All right. Anything else? All right. I appreciate everyone's time today very much. Second. All those in favor? 70. of the