001[Music] I'm on the board selected the order I'd like to call the board a financed order and I will call the special meeting of the Board of Education to order everybody join us in the pledge mistress the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God okay so I would like to welcome everyone here tonight and I thank you all for viewing this evening as another opportunity to collaborate we think it's really important that we have an open sharing of communication and this has really served all of our boards well in the past and I'm hoping that by the end of tonight that it will all become clear the very real and very big issues that our town is facing particularly with our students I just want to remind
002any members of the public that this is a special meeting of all three of these boards so we do not have public comment on the agenda purposefully we have a very focused agenda and any comments here this is really just a presentation so thank you in advance and I really am going to turn it over to dr. Burrell who's going to have some opening remarks if you take a look at the topics for discussion we'll go through an overview of the budget exposures related to special education we'll have we'll go into detail about the exposures and tuition professional services and transportation as those are our bigger our biggest items we'll talk about actions taken thus far provide a summary of our budgetary exposures and then provide a small glimpse at the 2020 2021 budget for
003a special education tuition explain excess cost implications and then of course have questions comments and discussion so just for the some of the new board members that are that are here I just kind of want to go around and just have some introductions first so I'll start I'm Rosa Fernandes Board of Ed chair kento stricter business operations for the port of it John burrows superintendent schools before supportive education gen Leighton Board of Education Amy foster Board of Education Michael Murphy Board of Education joy greens I'm rid of it Harry shaker Lord selectmen this later boy slacker Steve Don Board of Selectmen glen rooney board a finance mark movi boarder finance john lucas town treasurer mrs. sarasota okay thank you so dr. Burrell Thank You Rosa um can everybody hear me I wanna make sure the
004mic sound okay so this meeting tonight is important enough that I really took the time to prepare some opening remarks I would like to think that my memory is so good that I could remember every one of the opening remarks but I will refer to my notes to make sure that I share these very important information regarding what Rosa started to introduce and we're here to talk about as you know the overage in the budget this year for special education students frankly I wish we didn't have to have this meeting you know we have a shortfall mrs. Sturm shared that in the fall with the the Board of Finance and it's because of an increase in special education services for students with major social emotional and mental health diagnosed diagnosis for the last five years
005it's very important for me to say for the last five years I've been in Brookfield and the Board of Finance and Board of Selectmen have always wanted to be informed of matters and ask the Board of Ed and me that if we need additional funds to come forward and make such requests I emphatically state tonight that all of you have always come through for the board and the schools and we're extremely grateful we're grateful for your partnership and we've done a lot together whether it's the annual operating budget knocking down the portables supporting the new elementary school the special appropriation for special education we asked for a couple of years ago the additional kindergarten teacher this year due to the unexpected enrollment spike you've always been there and we really appreciate it and I think
006I could speak on behalf of the board the administration teachers the school system we really do thank you well I wish I didn't have to request the additional funds and talk about this tonight my job in the board's job is to advocate for all of the students of Brookfield it's important you know the big picture and that the public understands the big picture what's going on today with students the issue of mental health and the increasing number of students in Brookfield regionally across our state and across our nation is rising to epidemic proportions we have more children entering pre-k in the primary grades with both neurological and profound emotional needs that you couldn't even imagine some needs and subsequent behaviors are so profound that many of the children are danger to themselves and sometimes to
007others we just reviewed the results of the developmental assets survey in partnership with Brookfield cares the number of grades 7 through 12 students reporting feelings of depression and suicide is alarming we'll be sharing those that data publicly in the next couple of months we also have put the educational needs of the children we are discussing as a priority for us but simultaneously we also must prioritize the safety and non disrupted education of the majority of our students and let's not forget we must provide a safe working environment for a faculty and staff these are serious concerns in fact before we talk about the out placements tonight it is important that you know that with the ebb and flow of enrollment that almost 30 new students with identified special needs moved into Brookfield this year these
008kids are not students needing out placement that I'm referring to right now rather these children come with more typical reading math and speech concerns you may wonder dr. Burrell how do you accommodate services for such a dynamic change in the student body the answer is pretty clear we have a great staff and we creatively exercise schedules to make it work we increase teacher caseloads and we simply figure it out we don't dream of coming for extra funding on things like this we just handle it we work to keep students in our district in an outplacement is the last resort for programming when nothing else is working at the school mrs. white want why Ghana will review that process a little bit later in tonight's present an important fact regarding the students needing out placement while
009the costs are significant it may feel as though we have many many more students being out placed the total number of children we will be discussing tonight has actually remained relatively steady over the last couple of years since the spike in 2017-18 the students needing an outplacement when we increased from sixteen to thirty students and some of you were on the board finance at that time in the Board of Selectmen you may recall that we have remained at about thirty students being out placed at any given time you will see through a conversation tonight they're from 1718 the last year 1819 through budgeting for this year the 2019 2020 year we actually budgeted less money for fewer out placements as we projected two years ago when the Board of Finance provided the special appropriation 26
010students for this current year were budgeted for six of the 26 students actually moved out of town or came back to our local school schools were saved on out placement costs however twelve students either moved into Brookfield or were currently in our schools and it was all to ultimately determined that an outplacement was a better setting for them that's a swing of 18 students from the original budget of 26 kids this is a dynamic and ever-changing process just yesterday while preparing for tonight's meeting mrs. y gana cor jeana's will call her you'll get to know Jena soon ken and I were informed about another student with significant special needs and will ultimately be responsible for them three students in the last week what is the district doing to address the matter the board financed import
011of Selectmen have been witnesses and sometimes partners too many of the district initiatives the Board of Ed in administration is conducting to mitigate costs to manage our programs and develop the capacity to improve services I've been fortunate to be one of the leaders working on the regional work with developing transportation and purchasing efficiencies we also ride share for students attending the same out of district schools we have focused on supporting social emotional needs with the Yale ruler approach k12 we've developed therapeutic in district programming for our students with these kinds of needs we already have developed an ELC program which is an in-district program that helps them most profound students this saves on cost while at the same time enhancing programs we have provide a professional learning and trauma-sensitive schooling so staff can better service
012our students with these profound issues we also reorganized special education leadership to ensure that at both the elementary and secondary levels we are staffed with an administrator decision maker at key planning and placement team meetings in just last Thursday last week I attended a legislative breakfast with Debbie and Mike and Rosa and also Steve Harding to work with our regional legislators and other superintendents to urge the state to support local districts with the rising cost of special education I can tell you every district you talk to anybody is dealing with this issue this is this is not just Brookfield one area we plan to pursue is working to make sure insurance companies cover large portions of services for these diagnosed mental illnesses rather than passing all the costs on to the local school system and
013we could certainly use your help in that I thank you for listening and I just wanted to set the tone and B provide that information to you this evening thank you so much okay so the first thing I want to kind of go over I want to start sort of big picture get into the nitty-gritty details then bring us back out to the big picture again so the first thing I want to talk about is our significant special education budget exposures so I'll talk sort of very briefly high-level about them now and then mrs. wagon ik is going to go through each of these in these order in this order and explain to you all the detail so when you look at special education outplacement tuition we're looking or projecting in excess of the budget
014of around four hundred and fourteen thousand this is due to the number an increased number of students out placed and the cost of that out placement so it's important to note that it's not necessarily that tuition itself has gotten more expensive but the needs of the students themselves have gotten worse pensive professional services we're looking at an exposure of about 257,000 these are for all general special education services not just related to outplacement but in district as well special and transportation fifty-eight thousand seven hundred forty one dollars this is an increase in the in district extended school year or as you will probably remember it a summer school program this is an increase in the in district transportation more students participating in that program so ultimately we are looking at a general exposure of a
015round of a known exposure of around seven hundred and thirty thousand dollars but it is very important that we understand that this number is changing the 730 is the known that we know for sure but there are an additional five students that are still pending as probably as early as next month we will know more definitively what those costs will be but as of right now for those five students we are looking at an additional two hundred and sixty-five thousand again it can't be overstated as dr. Brill mentioned these numbers change seemingly weekly so we will keep you as up-to-date as we possibly can but as you can see we are already dealing with a very significant exposure right now so missus why Ganic will take you through tuition professional services and transportation thank you
016before I get into all the outlets to which tuition slide that is in front of you you just want to share some insights that before we even think about out placing students we go through a pretty rigorous list of process to just really really work with the parents work with a variety of outside specialists we work with inside specialists we work with board certified behavior analysts because having a student out place you are putting them in the most restrict and our goal is to put them in the least restrictive environment and keep them in our community keeping them in the community provides them to be with their peers participate in after-school activities athletics and role models here in Brookfield so we really take a really strong look at a variety of things before we even
017consider moving to out place a student so if you take a look at the slide that is presented before you as of July 1 the we budgeted for 26 students the start of the school year we had six students returned to Brookfield for services or were no longer in Brookfield the savings for twenty students the cost of thirty-one thousand five hundred fifty less than tuition and related services also an overestimate of AIS students the new students tuition would be seven hundred twenty-three thousand eight hundred and eight which is the current net overage of four hundred fourteen thousand three hundred and seventy eight the unknown students we are in the process right now where it's under evaluation as to where and if those students will be out place we are in the process right now so
018that's the unknown if you turn to the next slide you will see pretty much the same information just provided in more of a graphic you have the six students and again we don't have we have it listed there from one to thirty eight we have our six students who have returned we have our twenty students listed and our twelve new students to the right of that is the savings for the students that are in district that were that were under budgeted and that would come to the four fourteen 378 on the next side slide what rows are referred to as the professional services we had to outsource for a speech and language pathologists because we had an employee go out on leave we had an additional outsource SLP assistant to support caseloads and we also
019had an increase in outsourced services for students who were hearing impaired we also need to provide the to non-public schools with a nurse which is Christian life Academy and st. Joe's unfortunately the shortage we could not find a nurse that wanted to part-time positions because it is part-time in each building so we again had to outsource to an agency to fill that position we had another employee go out on leave so we needed to outsource to cover that employee's IEP mandated services and we also increased with a board certified behavior analyst because of the behavioral needs in district the other professional service accounts which were some other budget underruns which are tutoring evaluations outside evaluations that we needed to do for a population of students so the total of that was the two hundred fifty
020seven thousand four hundred thirteen the transportation piece for special education where you see the 18,000 842 where it says more buses this was for extended school year we had more buses more students attend extended school year we had approximately 60 more students at 10 because we changed the program to support the needs of the IEP s so there was an increase in number we also transported 18 students which are the ELL students who had a program that was skinnier this summer the 14200 the outsourcing of a driver for the life skills program which is a wonderful program that supports the students at the high school to support their vocational and therapeutic activities outside of Brookfield high school and the 25,000 240 special vehicle this is for students who cannot take regular transportation and the total
021for that would be the 58,000 741 so dr. Brill spoke at length about most of these points but I don't think that I think it's worth restating here that we as a board and as a district are always engaged in an ongoing effort to manage programming capacity and thus costs from a whole system's leadership based approach so some examples of these are organizing with regional transportation efficiencies and district ride-sharing as you know we are well on our way to rolling out our social-emotional program the ruler approach in addition to trauma-sensitive training for teachers and staff as well as the therapeutic programming at huckleberry whisk an ear and the high school so this speaks to the specific needs of the students that we're discussing tonight we have reorganized special education leadership which speaks to capacity and
022place decision-makers in each of the schools that along with professional development for teachers means that there can be a more direct support fidelity to our programs and more accountability not only do the clinical teams meet every other month but there's a lot of collaboration between these special education teachers and the regular education teachers I think it's really important that we understand that our students with special needs are part of our district even the ones that are out placed and their school community so it's important that regular education teachers view them as their students as well this is the climate that we are trying to build and these are the goals of the Brookfield Board of Education so mrs. Wagga Nick has and will continue to speak to the great work that's being done but I
023hope this gives you a more holistic high level approach or view of what we're trying to accomplish and why it's so important that we remain on track to doing just that so on this last slide we this is sort of our summary slide so in sum we're looking at a total special education exposure at a minimum so what's known now is seven hundred and thirty thousand five hundred and thirty two dollars to upwards of nine hundred and ninety five thousand five hundred and thirty two I'm going to talk about that high number in a minute but I want to be solutions oriented tonight so first I want to explain in this table most on the left the first three items Chromebook revenues savings from leaves and vacancies the one percent discount for transportation prepayment I
024just wanted to list those specifically here as those were referenced in the December financial report really everything in this table here we've got some smaller overages elsewhere but the bigger picture here if you see this is ongoing normal district budget management we could if you look at the bottom number the one forty five 0-62 we could have easily handled an exposure of around this size this is normal and this is typically pluses and minuses that we deal with regularly what we've done for this issue is more of the actions taken by the district and you'll see that in a table in the middle so immediately we implement sit or freeze a two hundred thousand dollar freeze so I think it's really important that we talk specifically about the freeze now because the extended duty spending
025freeze in particular is our curriculum writing work so when we put a freeze on that we are putting a hold on the very important work which is our curriculum work and at our last board meeting we had a very thorough presentation of detailing all of that work and it's important that we understand that that work is now suspended and not being done the supplies and under and other accounts pending freeze some of these may include field trip transportations custodial building maintenance supplies and straw shanell supplies and these are freezes that are not easily implemented so when we enact a freeze it's not as simple doesn't affect very much these are very real things that our students are not in terms of the going back to the extended duty we are essentially not allowing our teachers
026to become the curriculum owners and experts and instructional leaders that we want them to be and that they want to be and that we expect them to be so I can't underestimate or sort of not talk about that specifically enough now what we need to discuss tonight is mostly this table on the right so we do thank you again for allowing us to consider the non lapsing fund balance that was something that we didn't want to necessarily assume but we thank you for your cooperation and allowing us to consider that our known exposure remains this that 208,000 zero eighty one dollars that is for the known overages as of this moment in the future potentially even as early as next month again we are returning to that 265 number for a total of six hundred
027and fifty thousand four hundred and seventy again that number can change so if you want we can stop for questions and comments now or we can talk about the implications on next year's budget sort of however you want whatever you're more comfortable with doing just so you know there's only about three slides left in the deck so if the pencil yeah I'd rather keep it to this right now I think that's okay we're used to you all right I'll go how's that I don't think it's a question of the expenditures that we're really concerned with it's the tightening of the numbers aspect of where we really stand I asked a lot of questions last week and got back some answers and I'm not so sure the numbers tell the story that we really have so
028I'll just pick a number savings from leaves and vacancies just a number to help me get situated so we have a number here of 189 thousand and savings which is based on Ken's letter based on two items it's the monthly report from human resources department that shows unpaid leave and how long the person will be out and you calculate that out and to you monitor the vacant positions and you calculate that now in years past there has always been the retirements versus the replacements which you put 120 and on the budget line but you have no costs against you in your financial reports so are you holding to that 120 and your savings on retirements versus replacements yes that number where does that number built into the 189 is that part of that 189 could
029you only list the two items that you brought into that 189 in my 189 I'm not including retirement savings so then did we meet the 120 or is there extra money in that one we just barely met it barely met ador we added over it I mean when we're talking I can say ten dollars I'm looking at escaping dollars then where would you also put in we appropriated eighty-nine thousand four hundred dollars this year for a kindergarten teacher which was a step7 teacher with benefits we hired I believe a step 2.5 teacher to fill that position so there's another $12,000 there where is that accounted for in this number of 189 that would be in the teacher turnover savings in the to another 120 so that is in that 120 now that you're saying we've
030barely met or we met because that this is my trying to see is the big picture of where we really stand in us you know because it the numbers and their explanation don't tie it together because you know 120 line in your budget you have zero dollars against it like you didn't achieve it so I just trying to figure out where we stand as of the full costs of the tuitions that number should not change now unless the students change in the past three months we've gone from 404 down to 350 up to 415 but your presentation now shows that that's a fixed number unless we add a student or students program changes so a student's program could change within the month Gina can you briefly explain how a student who we're paying outplacement tuition
031for might have other services above and beyond the base tuition and how that might change is a hypothetical brief example for example if we have a student that is out place once that transition PPT takes place we provide them the IEP that we've had here in brookfield and what they do is they monitor that student they provide the IEP that was put in place but we may have to go back to PPT because there may be some ot PT speech and language behavioral additions to that IEP which are additional costs sorry occupational therapists physical therapists speech and language behavioral specialists so those may be those are like a la carte they may be added to the program which is an increase in service because it's an increase in they're utilizing their staff and sometimes sometimes
032they can talk if the child is succeeding and write better so it all depends right thank for now that's all I really have John II have a question I'm looking at more of a long-term I don't wanna say solution but a long-term fix rather than an annual fix and with the the cost of the outplacement students are we at a point when I first came out to the Board of Education we brought in a number of specialists which increased our salary line by a certain amount but it decreased our cost tremendously are we in a situation where we can bring in the specialists needed to lower that number of outsourced students to where we can start to not just fix this annual situation but in the long run drastically reduce or hopefully drastically reduce the
033number of outplacement students Gina if I could just address that first then turn it over you said Gina right on that one er was a job well as I said John I have a question but are you looking at you letting me know I just wanted you to know I appreciate that Harry so I think there's there's two things and I think you might be referring to the ELC program when you first got on the board right that was established in district which is a very successful program we have here and over the long term has avoided a great deal extra Learning Center those for the most part are students a lot of one-on-one paraprofessionals in the program a dedicated teacher to the three different programs we have and that to your point there was
034savings there and likely cost avoidance over the long long term we brought those specialists in-house recently we in a budget neutral manner introduced a therapeutic program for some folks you might remember the concept of an alternative education at the high school or the alternative school within a school we felt when dr. Cipolla was here and working our administration that we needed to develop therapeutic programming for the long term for students with social emotional issues and so two years ago we embarked on that and we're having success with that program I don't know if this the rest of this will answer your question but it goes back to my earlier comments we are seeing students with such profound mental health concerns that the therapeutic program we have established here is not enough and at the last
035resort when we've tried everything else and it's an exhaustive process as Jena started that outline the outplacement becomes a solution may not be a long term more than a year solution sometimes it is a very long term solution other times students might be up for six months and be able to come back others might be for a couple year or two and as noted in the numbers there's a lot of change in those students and you could see that that's evidenced in the actual data the other part of the long-term heri that we're trying to do is what I talked about with legislation I mean this is we all know that the funding at the state the formula frankly is arbitrary the other piece to that and we could talk a little bit about excess
036cost later we have some slides on that the other piece is this this really is we're seeing it not only in Brooklyn we're seeing in our neighboring districts you talk to any board member any teacher any any parent that that is you know happens to be paying attention to this it's everywhere and it's it's not only in our region it's in the state and it's nationwide you talk to any educator this is a difficult difficult circumstance that we're in now the students you're talking about are these students with social and emotional issues that you're talking about okay now when they are outsourced are they outsourced are they coming home each day or are you talking about students that are outsourced combination and staying on campus but I'm still like I'm still not I don't see
037now to understand you but are you saying that we can't bring those specialists in-house that handle that would be able to handle these types of situations that the children we have brought in behavioral therapists into district into the ELC programs and like John had said there are situations where the capacity we just do not do not have the capacity to bring in specialists to not have to out place them it is pretty costly because you really need to develop programming for all four schools to have that so it could be pretty costly to do that the the other piece about the regional I don't know if you wanted to touch on that well I think the regional just kind of how yeah it's not be an advanced piece oh hold off okay I think we
038talked about day programming versus residential and we go through several steps no I don't want to breach anything we go through several steps and all of the students that we do decide to out place we have a psychiatric evaluation done on those students with outside providers and the recommendations that come in could be a third usually a therapeutic day school sometimes they will help us build within district a program to keep them in district and then the last resort would be if that programming does not work then the last resort is to put them in that least restrictive environment so they are therapeutic settings for students and there are a variety of reasons it could be disability it could be mental health issues there are a variety of reasons and again you know we we
039look at every possible opportunity to keep them in district because it is best for that child yeah the students that you're talking about the campus the campus is that they go to for these in conjunction with other towns is it's impossible is it possible to make Brookfield one of those cancel about one of those campuses to where we have those facilities and I'm not talking doing this next year in the future we're looking at possibly doing something with with the center school now is there a location or is it possible in the future to bring that campus here in conjunction with other towns so I think Harry that is an idea that can be explored and I think many times we have to have an open mind and say that hey there's there's an idea
040let's explore that so anything's possible I'd like to share a little bit about what we're doing in the regional programming with with that advance which is our local regional education service and I know this isn't something that can answer our question you know I understand but I think it's important for people to understand that we are trying on a long-term sure answer well can some of the administrative actions that we've talked about and I just want to explain a little bit about what we're doing so regionally we are working with all of our gosh 20 plus districts and sharing transportation and IDI advance is actually coordinating routes and we're doing the best we can with transportation providers as well as the ride-sharing that Gina's Department works on so those are some things significant cost avoidance
041with transportation imagine all of these students that are out placed if you match up the cost of transportation really not we don't have the significant overage and transportation as we do in the actual tuition and that typically is a match sometimes that's because of we're doing we're really working hard to mitigate that we are working with in advance to further develop an outplacement Center right and it happens to be in Danbury that advance would run the the educational resource center would run but the local districts would lower the cost because number one it's closer and we'd share services we'd also be running it essentially and have a say in the programming and actually be able to monitor things more closely and that average cost per per student for tuition actually drops when you compare it
042to all of the different private Institute schools that are out there of private organizations that provide the outplacement tuition so we're really working hard together the superintendent's and actually local legislators and trying to make that work as well so we are trying long term to look at how thank you thank you sure can I ask a question I apologize this first time I've seen some of these numbers and laid out this way look at your page 3 July 1st 2019 you started with a budget of 1 million 7 you save two hundred and three thousand 960 by the start of the school year because students returned for a left growth field then you take one hundred five thousand dollars off for 20 students clustering 1,000 bucks for a cement - 373 and then you have
04312 new students with an additional 723 then you say current net over just for 14 when I in the back of a piece of paper add that up and subtract subtract subtract add it comes to 3/6 so how do we get from 4 14 to 316 unless I'm just saying 808 - 105 470 - 2 or 3 no I started one 705 miss exactly 203 subtract 105 at 7:23 then I come up with 360,000 the 414 is the amount of the overage so it saying out that we're over the million 705 so it's just the other three numbers and then added together the four 415 consists of the 723 in new tuition the 105 in savings on existing students and two or three savings on the students and it all do you see that do
044you see that 105 number at the bottom of that savings identified I think that's what you're missing well this is written you start it's the one 705 right then you have minus 203 the minus 105 plus 723 what's this are there to get with it you've got an area that says card net over it because the when you stop at 7:23 808 so when you stop it so even even if I'm the knob before where does how does the 414 relate to the 360 so when you add when you say and then you subtract the original budget of 1.7 and it shows you the overage of 414 Steve I see if you follow it like a flowchart like the arrows are pointing yeah yeah but I think I understand what you guys are saying see
045the arrows forget about the arrows yeah you had a budget and then you have some overages it needed like a subtotal right here two million 170 but it is confusing Steve if you want the following one the one that looks like this says the same exact information just much more detailed with a backup data maybe that's your fault let's move on to that because tuition and other differences plus minus plus minus depending on the student right for students who were in the school year not the new students not the ones that have left you're saying your to the good seventy-three nine point I'm sorry 105 for seventy there was 273 920 number so you're saying to save 7390 why is that in the same column as the 105 so so it's hard it's part of
046it yes it's it well up all those away that see this yeah I've got a 73 920 here and 79 20 year that's not what I'm saying is your your accounting um I know you guys do a great job with the students you work really hard to keep the cost down and meet the students needs but the way this is written it is very very difficult to follow and this is what I've done my whole life is run numbers it's just numbers so Steve I don't know why it's confusing I do math all the time I do budgeting all the time the 105 is the bottom of the column it's the total of everything above it including the 73,000 you had all the pluses and minuses in that column they had up to 105 thousand
047dollars so that's not a subtotal so the bottom the bottom row of numbers there are the sub holes of every column right so so the 73 is just the line ID on the end there somebody told me what a is is because I don't see it anywhere else against the American International School as the magnet school in Danbury okay so it was an over estimate on the note on the what it would cost to educate students who receive special education at that school that are our Brookfield students sorry for the alphabet soup there okay we understand from your alert you're teaching and that I'll take the opportunity just to share it again I don't want to confuse people because we've got a lot of information coming the that a is seventy three thousand dollar tuition
048not only was an over estimate last year going into this year for what those students would need so that's why shows as a savings doctor so Paula as she was putting the her budget together and how it ultimately made it all the way through this ended up it should have been in professional services she was counting those students in her head as out places students because they weren't and there were our students that we were responsible for but not in our district and so when you take the four students that we're talking about there and you add that to the twenty six outplacement we budgeted for that gets to and any of you can go check you'll see a number thirty on an old PowerPoint of mine that I talked about with thirty out place
049news so students at AAAS do not cost anywhere near out placement their your more typical it's a regular education setting so they're more typical they might have speech services they might have a learning disability focused in the language arts area math area those kind of things weren't magnet schools charging us our prorated share we have we have a base tuition we pay yeah I think it's 43 students then if students receive special education the sending town is responsible I just have a couple of questions pretty quick dr. Brio you had a kid yesterday you mentioned yes to the program so if I go back to page three where do we have that child is he already in the 12 new students that know so he's not an unknown already but his cost is under corrects
050okay so is he so he's not a five unknown it could be a six unknown so this is where it's very important as part we knew this would come up as part of this conversation is naturally brought up so thank you for the question so to Gina's point that student has not been evaluated the situation is very simple I said three in the last week they are not accounted for in this additional anticipated potential 245,000 it could be more than that and we've got to tell you that you need to know right those things change I want to be clear I appreciate that marker the next page on page four we have we have students costing us four outplacement anywhere from fifty seven hundred dollars to one hundred fifty five fifty five thousand dollars how
051much help policeman do you get for $5,700 I don't understand it seems like that should be higher disease does 26 and may have just been summer services so we've helped place summer services for a kid in the summer that we wouldn't during the school program because we don't have staffing during the summer season for him we're sorry sometimes I was on duty sometimes a student finishes up at the end of the summer so for example a student might be or they might come back so what I'm looking at these numbers these include last summer's special which would be part of this current fiscal year correct just a couple could this also be where still has needs have changed yes yes go to him back to district efforts so that they can come back with a
052budgeted almost 20 grand hear me all because I was assuming it wasn't that thank you page five your first item is out for service coverage for an employee on the house or services cost us roundoff $139,000 are we getting some savings from the teacher being on leave or is this a teacher that we're still paying a full salary - we are payments we are getting some savings with them nearly that much and that is in which is 10 right 189 it's in the 1 thank you mark can I expand on that just for a second I think it's very important with the nursing services and the speech services that we're talking about when we're in areas that speech is a recognized shortage area of speech teachers in Connecticut nursing it's hard to find school nurses
053pay is very different in hospitals and other care facilities compared to school nurses many are attracted to the school schedule and working with children in terms of becoming school nurses but that's a minority of candidates usually when you cannot find a long term sub for a speech teacher like this for example you spend on an outside vendor to provide those services and they charge quite a bit more and we don't have a choice we must provide the services to the students and so you're in a you're in a real pickle they're in situations like that and that's why it cost so much but certainly the teacher doesn't make that kind of money I I appreciate that we will have a discussion about outside vendors but that's not for tonight it's not good to do it
054specially you know that's coming I'm sure and I think I only had one other question you mentioned that we could help you you talked about getting insurance coverage for special ed students how does that work what would you so we're really taking a look at we're gonna be working with legislature don't be talking with Steve quite a bit one of the things and sometimes it happens often times most of the time it doesn't when the the insurance health insurance company a family's health insurance plan it could cover mental illness and so if there are and it's not for all of our special education through the students certainly but students with these profound emotional needs we would like to see families going through their health insurance we can't mandate that so there you go and so
055you use there's a lot there and it isn't for an entire year it might be a short term but stay there saving somewhere so there there's work we need to do there go ahead so I'm assuming you're handcuffed is to probably a bad term but mandated what you can or can't ask parents for whatever so but you guys are working on that we will work on that and I don't know that that is anything that would be a solution in the near term no yeah I wasn't suggesting I'll get me and just one other thing just a pet peeve of mine some of you have heard before other professional services of twenty four thousand dollars other variances of $459 all other variances of almost sixteen thousand dollars I like seeing line items don't lump things
056together I want to see what that stuff is I don't want to speak for everybody here but I think none of that is cheap I'll go now cuz I think that leads into what I want to say all right let's go to the proactive side of this now we've talked about the problems here I agree with mark on your page that you broke down the students and the pluses and the minuses that's great I'd like to see that for the salary lines and make sure we're talking real numbers as real as we can get that we can tie back to we can look it looks like right now as you stand today you need an X beyond the non lapsing funds of 177 you need two hundred eight thousand dollars now we know are pretty
057low well bezels right now yes absolutely Helen I'm a firm believer in you can't control the uncontrollable as you can control what you can control okay so this falls into my opinion so there's gives and takes everywhere in life right so we do have that will not affect the town side of operations which Steve gave me the numbers today on the teachers pension that we appropriated the eighty nine five out of there's still forty five thousand seven thirty two left there we have from the extra ECS grant money we have another one eighty 206 zero that was we budgeted for it between Steve and the Board of Finance last year we have a one eighty two surplus we've under budgeted the amount we were getting back from the state that would leave us with two
058hundred twenty seven thousand seven ninety two dollars that would not affect and see if you can step on my toes and almost speaking out of school that would not affect the town budget whatsoever now what I would be willing to consider is again we're looking at all these costs and the big numbers is if we were to procreate that 2:27 as a whole number I know it's more than the 208 now hear me out that would also alleviate you to do some manipulating between the extended duty maybe you could support that or support some of your supplies that you spent freeze thank you it's under consideration I understand Alice I think say thank you for the collaboration this also leads into we need help when we get to the next section of the 6.8% increase
059that the fear we're trying to we got to work together to find the solutions is what I'm trying to say so late now you don't have time and again and you go up and correct me if I'm speaking out of turn to is these are uncontrollables you can't steer the boat or land the plane as Bob used to like to say on short runway but we do have time to try to work together for next year's budget to get that number down a little bit where we can work together so I would be personally in favor of doing those appropriations to get you to 27 if you come back with the backup data like we asked for give me the the salaries give me the numbers that tie up the savings the free savings just
060make it work where the numbers 17 numbers add up to one eighty nine whatever seventeen fifty twelve I would be willing to consider for me my supposition to appropriate the 227 that wouldn't affect I mean if we get good back at Steve right well yes I see your point I would support the two hundred eight thousand and the reason being is if we have to go for a special appropriation or if we have to which I don't think we will or if we have to hit the general fund it looks really bad to the rating agencies I want to stay within our existing budget and find savings wherever we pass because we're gonna be borrowing sixty three million dollars in the next two years and we want to be able to show to the wall
061street and to the rating agencies we handle our problems we handle them within our budgets we do not hit our general fund so I would support the 208 at this point I'm just afraid we're gonna have more expenses here we're going to III my thing is they got to help out with the 265 on the other side too we don't have that this is what I'm saying is this 227 does not affect our town operations budget right now that doesn't affect you doing anything outside of the budget this is money they don't have we set aside for this is a budget it's in the budget and it's not being it it's not being utilized or designated for any of your services I I don't know on the 265 sign of things where we can go
062to help out with the appropriation other than go into general fund if we get that far right I don't and again I think I'll eNOS if she's she hated the fact we're freezing some of these supplies and everything else in the curriculum rating alone I mean that's that's an issue year after year it seems to be one of the first things that gets hit and you know we keep implementing new curriculum but if the teachers aren't supported what's the point of having it and and that really doesn't put us towards the future and keep us in line with where educational goals need to be so I have more in favor of the 227 and try to reduce some of these freezes I mean this 158,000 is that if we freeze the end of the year
063or is that up to this best reason to the end of the year we're not even halfway through the year now I mean that less than halfway through yeah that seems unreasonable I mean and again we all said to look at the majority of the students in the district too and not be taken away from their educational experience so I'm more in favor of the 227 thank you those actually you know reduce what you can but not freeze everything and and not you know have those lesser impact on the rest of the students so we know we're looking for absolutely looking at at 265 thousand and possibly potentially three more so some of them are gonna fall into something some of them are going to need to so be careful is that fair to say
064we were gonna have it's not zero there's gonna be something that yes all right thank you so into my mind's eye we're doing a financial disservice to the town if we don't we have almost no there $19,000 we've given the 208 we'd have almost another 19,000 to help start offsetting that I mean we know we have more costs coming but they also have more savings coming you were anticipating more savings on your salary lines possibly as well to help offset probably so this is where but again I I say this and part of this is uncontrollable it comes down to next year's budget as well as that six point five or a six point eight numbers a big number that we'd like to see if we can get that done it I'd like to see
065the process go the way it was set out to go the Board of Ed sets a budget we can't keep it tight as we can keep it and you come to the Board of Finance of the board of selection for appropriations instead of getting a big number let's try to get it down and work together on the appropriation side of this instead of having excess or dealing the numbers big that number is a big number we're looking at sure so in terms of it appropriating 208 versus 227 if your thought is well we'll give you the 227 don't do as much cutting on the things but by the way you guys got to go find savings to cover the 265 we're gonna end up having to freeze in anyhow right because it's mechanically you know
066you have to stay ahead of the curve right we can't wait for another month to find out whether what our costing of me and then start trying to say we have to keep it frozen for the time being so we would actually mechanically have to do the same thing whether you give us either number right so it might be easier just to clear the decks and then we'll come back when we learn more right now you know so appropriate the total amount but don't assume that's going to allow us to unfreeze things or not do the curriculum right and the curriculum writing's mostly in the summer ahead of us any at the beginning of the summer correct no no no it's weekend weekends after school things like that so so I just don't want to
067set an expectation that that's a magical panacea so that's point and I get that but we don't have a huge contingency fund we only the way yeah right so a special appropriation is still going to need to figure out where that money is coming from unless it's coming straight out at the general fund and I think that's you know to cleanse point that's what we're trying to understand we are very motivated we spent a lot of time on this to find every penny that we can save in order to cover this thing that's coming out of us at us from left field right this is so Glen I I understand your speech don't think we're fighting against that but we're there's not we don't believe there's a lot of additional stuff unless we end up
068having leaves that we didn't anticipate so I wouldn't presume there's a magical couple hundred thousand dollar just sitting around and so we we need to keep working this minimize to 65 I'll be frank if that's only five kids that's still a lot for a half a year's worth of tuitions right if they happen to be less expensive programs it'll be better I've spoken to mrs. white on ik and she says she knows the cases and they're pretty significantly the odds are high that we will spend when we do that we have truly come in let's say we do need to outsource some how long does it take to evaluate them and then we have to outsource them how does that work it really depends on the student when they come in what the severity of
069their disability is the supports that they need I can tell you we go I could I could ramble off a few things here that we let's just take it for example a student who has some difficulty with behaviors we try to take some of the demands off we work with the behavioral therapists we have the school psychologist go into the classrooms and do an ecological evaluation to see what is setting that child off is it specific classrooms is it certain things that are going on in that classroom as the dynamics of the classroom we also look at additional assessments that we could do in-house to see if we could support that student with other academic pieces we provide counseling if needed we look at disciplinary issues is there a pattern where is it happening we
070look at the academic concerns are they subject related we look at the two programs we have in place can we support the student within the two programs that we have we also provide after-school support which is a focus group for students who need that extra academic support if they're having difficulty getting homework done it's just that's a very simplistic example we look at doing neuropsychological zhh we look at doing psychiatrics so it is a process before we even consider out placing a student because it is again the the most restrictive environment we work with students um so Gina can you four to directly answer mr. Dunn's question about the exhaustive process you just went through and thanks I'm doing that since it's folks who are not in the business don't understand what it takes by
071law to grant these decisions this is also working with families how long if a student moved into town tomorrow and came with an individual education plan with many of the needs you're talking about that process you just outlined is there a range from a couple of weeks to two months I don't know that you can share I'm gonna say it's concretely as you can earliest three months three months and if we did have that source and all those programs monthly it depends on the recommendation from if it's that there's a psychiatric that is done it depends on the recommendation of what the programming is it could it could be six months it could be for the year it depends on the student and the recommendation okay we need one addition in there about these specifically
072that the mid correct me if I'm wrong is the majority of students who are out place are in day type program yes they come home and live with their family yes it's very rare that a student's in a residential campus therapeutic day school yeah therapeutic day support school is the terminology I appreciate it so I'll circle back to five here quick on there you say how you can't control certain cost you looked at things so in my world and I know might be different in your world over time was always something I could control you got forty thousand forty three thousand to the plus current year to pain and overtime that's a controllable item over time that's a choice management decision are these the things you're looking at to to the savings Glenn let's let's
073look let's just back up here I think your request was let's go into much more detail and look for other areas where we can find savings I'm with you 100% on that right I just want to set expectations we're not seeing it yet but we're gonna do that work we agree with you I thought you know what I would suggest we do is have Ken do an exhaustive under run over run versus where we are now line by line action by action what the to go spend is what's the going rate do all the things that you and I would do in the budgeting world controllable rapid controllable not controllable because the staffing is the 80 percent of our spend and most of that it's its happenstance whether you get savings or not you know
074some of it it's the rotation of your staffing that's where your to 120,000 yeah and some of it is like for example the example we used as we had a vacancy of our high school head janitor you have to fill that job but if you have two months before you fill it you got some savings right so that's the in fact what's happening that's what I want to see all stack up so we're talking the same thing so we're all on the same page we're 100% with you so absolutely we know what we know so far we'll go bang around on it further right we'll do it mark in exhaustive detail line by line and we'll come back and because we got this 265 to go deal with right I mean your support on this
075first tranche is wonderful thank you for that so unless that's to the next tranche we know we have to go key findings I think 65 are we just making our best guess based on our experience chantix what we know yeah then are being evaluated right don't eat a lot of detail but how comfortable you argue that 265 is with the current 5 students yes very close very close case scenario ah you believe it will be I that's what I believe it will be but now you think there's three potentially exact correct exactly plus direct mark from our side I'll go back to what Eileen said to about the 265 this money that we talked about tonight is money that like I say doesn't affect the town when we went through the budget process last year
076Steve to a huge shift and the Board of Finance and his contingency funds he asked for 300 we dropped him down to 50 he doesn't have a lot of room on the town side of any more money so any money above what we're talking about tonight is general fund money we don't really have it in we took away every one of his contingencies last year to get down the budget number so we even look good I just say you gave us a big cut too and and we had to yank a bunch of things out of our budget that we've been tight all year long so we've taken contingency out of a town budget overall you're missing my point tonight point where you are missed my point say there's not any more money that's all
077I'm saying there's not any extra money left on the town site in the current bunch of races all I'm trying to say is so the problem becomes we got to go to the bank to pick up the tab if we agree to do that it's not a matter of cutting contingencies what I'm saying is there is no no one never never expected on any of this sort of was a contingencies discuss as Steve did mentioned we do have to watch our triple-a ratings it it's very important especially with everything that we're doing and the new school project so it's a pretty big deal so we have to consider all know we it can't shortchange the children I agree what your we've done we have to find a happy medium but at the same time you
078are you know you're concerned about the triple-a rating well you know it's a big deal to talked about it laughs so I I understand that that is is your your major concern and I respect that I just want to say that we do not have a contingency and for the past several years we have been using our children's textbooks the curriculum work their supplies our building maintenance as our contingency fund we've had to freeze that in the beginning of the school year so that means all of our goals that are dependent on that just don't happen and so I understand there's no money but what our contingency is directly affects students beyond that number so when we talk about I am I get it but if we have to go deeper we start to directly
079affect students and we can list off a couple of suggestions I'm sure dr. Brill has them but they're not pretty none of its pretty I mean let's be real I mean it's a it's an issue we all have in it all I'm trying to say is again I agree you didn't have the money nobody has the money but he just can't produce it we got it we got it then dig into the general fund which we've worked so hard to get up to a certain point and reach these achievements we can't afford to go backwards in this process and we took the town side down the downside was a lot less increased in this the school side I know percentage-wise and week the town took a beating too during the process to get the numbers
080down we've built the ten-year model that shows us the same ability of how to go forward you know and get the school and and everything else that the taxpayer showed them their increase on the households and now we got these numbers again that we got to work there's gonna be paying somewhere along the way I mean that's the reality others gonna be paying on our site we just gave up money that we had right now pretty easily without too much of an issue that was excess that we could give and I would help out in all fairness we voted to give it you know I just say we offer the differences that's not here right one of the other questions I had I'm sorry is I'm the ECS money are you calculating in the formula
081you get more money as you know let's speak to them yes a cost piece right is that calculated into your shortfall but are you counting on the additional one hundred eighty two thousand in your calculations school right so important to look page and we did not because we knew your excess cost yeah I'm talking about ECM not the economic cost share same alphabet so state changes so I think it might be a good exercise for this sheet for Ken to kind of walk through how the formula works specific to Brookfield with a hypothetical student as a sample page correct 11 in the PowerPoint it's up on the screen down right so for anybody who's not familiar with it completely we take a out play student or even an in-house student if they have enough cost
082but in this case it's an out play student with tuition of a hundred thousand dollars transportation of forty thousand you have a total cost of one hundred $40,000 for that student the state sets a threshold of 4.5 times our prior years per pupil cost so in our case it would be 4.5 times 15,000 634 76 which makes our threshold 70,000 356 so our eligible costs is $140,000 total cost minus 70,000 356 which is 69 thousand six hundred forty-four dollars in recent years the reimbursement rate has averaged about 75 percent so if we assume 75 percent again this year on that 69 644 we would receive fifty two thousand two hundred thirty three dollars back from the state and if we take that off of one hundred and forty thousand dollars our net cost for that
083student is eighty-seven thousand seven hundred and sixty-seven dollars now we budget the excess cost grant in as a revenue item and if you look at the next slide the net additions of the students will not have a significant impact on their excess cost reimbursement and I'll let you know why first of all none of the six students that either return to district for services or left Brookfield qualified for reimbursement and only three of the twelve new out placed students qualify for excess cost reimbursement and they were included in our initial data filing on December 1st 2019 also we had three existing students in our program that were that used to be serviced one on one by an outside provider that was costly enough with an addition with to insert internal services to qualify starting this
084year we changed that program around and we have seven students being serviced by those three expensive providers for an average cost of 37 thousand dollars per student so even when you had in some other related services that they get here they do not qualify for excess cost anymore so we had three new ones qualified and three that we had expected do not qualify anymore so the net effect will be so the expenses for your students listed here yep is that that's gross expense not met a excess correct okay so when I see a formula like this prior your step leaves room for something Brookfield goodness you guys are great it seems to me like other towns or cities would gain that system and put in a bunch of kids that I needed a thousand dollars
085worth of service lower your your net cost per pupil right by law of averages and then your reimbursement rate would go your reimbursement threshold would go down that's that actually the average cost per student for the whole district and their reporting mechanism has to go into the state we've gone through that with the auditors every year and so as and you know it's interesting to me is we know profiles on the low end of the cost per student in the state there's a lot of towns that have a much higher with 21,000 dollars per year for students are getting significantly more access costs than we are because so they get less this is very important thanks for asking an on state approved facility in the state of Connecticut that they have not they they the
086state does not hold them accountable for anything so there are students that go to these private institutions that we cannot get access costs for they go to a non-state approver sees a state-approved a really two situations one is a student comes to us already in that facility and now has new residents in Brookfield ok so then that would take time perhaps to work with a family over time to get them into an approved state facility or service here in district with us then you want to talk about the other with the universal placement a little bit excuse me you knurled the unilateral give a sample of how that could work and that's it's in rare instances but right so another situation there isn't there could be an opportunity where a parent unilaterally places their student
087their child in a facility and then we go to due process or mediation and a settlement agreement and they haven't ready unilaterally place them there so they would do that if it was a kid ory yes and then we go to due process or mediation just decide whether or not we the parent the parent eh if you wanted yes ah mark mark but it's important nuance and the Connecticut state law is the burden of proof is on the district not on the parent so there are situations where parents place their child's send the bill to this town it's it's put the onus on the town or the district to actually challenge it in court and and you're basically dependent on arbitrators mediators in course right and sometimes you don't win those right that's the that's
088when that happens and just so you know administrative actions once again and trying to work with our elected officials this has been taken up caps the Connecticut Association of public school superintendents which I'm a member we have worked in put legislation forward I believe Connecticut I may be wrong is one of only two states that has this burden of proof issue and so legal expenses in the like become very very expensive and you start looking at the cost of tuition versus the legal battle that you might have to face not that's gonna help for next it's not gonna help for next year but the ECS the calculation is changing not in our favor I think for next year is that excess cost you me nervous oh maybe yes all right you see that excess constants
089yes yeah those are the names of those kill him yeah yes I'll mark to answer the question that worth investing there's three of that situation so so can you filed already for the for the for the excess cost you know Gina we filed for that Santos said match what we have in the budget or is it slightly low or slightly higher we should fill it in okay I'm not sure if you guys got that it's with the filing in December slightly lower than what was in the budget but we expect we should be able to fill that in with the second file anyone else I just want to circle real quick I know that you said that when I brought up the Triple A rating and what Stephen said that that's our priority in it
090it's just we are all here at this table because we want what's best for this town the children the rating you know the bonds the new school everything so it's just when we're just trying to figure out how x y&z work out we don't we're just trying to get answers so yes the children are so important and obviously things that we go through on our border super important but I just wanted to know I mean we're all here because we want what's best for this town that we we live it and we love so I'm just you know wanted to stress that it wasn't just about the rating it's just all these things go through our heads when we are little bars you you have a very difficult position we all do every single morning
091on them and I think it's in Breanna to your point it's really important with the with the ratings ken and I sit down with Steve and his team and we had were part of those meetings and that's really important too and that shows that collaboration which contributes to those ratings that's a really big piece is the teamwork why we're all here for that yeah thank you but dipping to be cleared that's very important and they did mention that you guys collaborated that would help to keep it up but they also have told us if we dip into the general fund or we deviate far from our capital plan that Steve put together with everybody's input but that can affect can and will affect our credit rating we could be talking about millions of dollars in
092financing fees you know in the long term especially with building into the school the other instructors in Tallinn I don't want anybody think we're cold-hearted we know what you guys are going through what just trying not to be make sure you're aware what we go through to John being on both ends of this discussion over the last 16 years we're in a position where there isn't money and there are things that need to be done and the bottom line is you have to figure it out we we've done that in the past and we'll do it now it'll be figured out we had a negative 1/2 percent decrease in a school budget and people said well we're not gonna be able to what we figured it out is it gonna hurt a little bit it
093is and I'm both sides but it will be figured out but it's it's everybody understands that no cuts very few cuts are easy to do and obviously we have a threshold that we really don't want to go into the general fund so we're gonna have make concessions to just figure it out but it'll get figured out and it's gonna be painful but that's that's reality and no one's mentioned a special appropriation I mean there's other outside the socks thinking's nobody wants to do that tighter but that may be something else we that could be looking when we get a total like you the next child and we should we should have that in about within a month Gina yeah yeah we should be there in terms of that process we talked about well we're gonna
094five students we should be five students and maybe even this these three students we're talking about so we can come with a more solid solid you could say the same thing then so is there anyone that wants to walk through the implications for next year's budget or do you not want to touch that yet so to you it's a lot of numbers we just threw at you first people one slide 1 slide basic on this so yeah it's just one slide um so no I had all right so you're looking at our current our current you know we're just talking about special special education and tube placement tuition for the known 32 students and the potential 5 totaling 37 our current budget for that at the beginning of the year was 1.7 that was for
095the twenty at that time the 26 students full year looking back at what we know we will have to spend we're looking at two point almost four million that's for all of our out plays students and some that have come on since then in terms of a partial year tuition when you look to next year we had back in October originally budgeted for 32 students since October we've had which was really we budgeted for 27 students with a contingency of five we've since then just since October I've had two over that contingency amount bringing our total to 34 students so our budget for next year as of right now is the 2.4 is the 2.4 number that looks like a really huge jump when you look at it from what we budgeted at the beginning
096of this year to what we will budget for next year but again if you look sort of at the full view and you take into consideration that 2.3 number this one down here the 2.4 number to compare this to the 2.5 that it will ultimately cost we're really looking at a 10 percent jump which again is significant but looking at all the numbers at once might be a little and I'll just add just so we get ahead of that curve most of the growth here 2 years is the fact that these kids are being placed in this year this year and they have a full year next year right that's 250 K of a 250 K increase otherwise it's relatively flat so that's the challenge we'll have as we look at the projects do we
097have to assume that none are gonna move out in this this assumes that the 37 goes to the 32 and that would sell it out because if I ever graduated well it was it was 7 out in the 2 m is what was in there we actually went much like we did the sheet before down instead of net up yeah well I mean said nicely reflecting on what dr. Birol said I mean really our numbers have been hovering around 30 I mean yeah we get some leave but then more come in we may be looking at some that that may graduate but they may not so it really it's it's a number that's very hard to track but if they do if you do get me years some kids move out of district will you
098come to us and announce to us that you have a savings of the money that we've actually that's the part of the root of why we get money back last year yeah right so that's exactly what we do we do not want to go spend that on other stuff yeah I think this it's a marks point this would be something because it's so volatile and can be so expensive and so disruptive in monthly reports if you keep us apprised of where today we that's what I mean I think that's you know something because no one likes to be surprised huh and it seems like we're getting support you are and we are yep you know I think we do surprise I would make a motion that we appropriate $208,000 for special education costs okay okay
099you guys have that first we can have the discussion first for this purpose for the Board of Ed and for this request on to the Board of Finance for review and discussion to have a second a second Perry seconds discussion I agree I agree with the 208 because I think the Bob's point you're gonna have to freeze anyway so as nice as it would be to our means point to you know not freeze as much right away it's all those in favor can I have my parents I'm sorry did you just appropriately 208 Oh 8 1 I wasn't listening yes yes I'm sorry - Oh a goalie all right from our side off be honest which I'd rather I'd want to we'll talk about this at our next meeting we're missing two members of our
100six members here tonight they don't even know what we were proposing I just got these numbers today from Steve I don't think it'd be fair for the four of us to not talk with Dan and Shawn considering that they've been on the board the longest as well so I personally don't see an issue with what we propose and Steve's proposal but I think it would not be the right thing to do for us as a Board of Finance at this time for free is it going to harm you if you don't get the appropriation from us until our next regular meeting which is if you'd like Glen if you would like me to present this again at your meeting I don't like I need to present I need to back up data I need exactly
101that deep dive let's see the numbers you know give us two extra these that right there is been like we could we could intercept the two guessing numbers and take them through the charts up you know so they got you know we could have them come over select we can officially submit the request on I don't think it's supposed to be grass it's the savings the backup date and how we're coming to this number of the appropriate and dollar I don't question the cost only any of us question the support of the special that students are all students it's a question of you have extra costs I was sure of what we're achieving on the savings side and we double up to see if there's more savings and do a deep dive so because again
102there's only so much that we can give without affecting the town side either between Steve in a bad spot and everybody's bad spot we just want to see the deep dive numbers the details behind how do we get that a 189 on the teacher's salary what is that gonna grow from 189 to 220 if you hold off in a position for another month I don't know your house numbers but for us to make it and I don't want to get into your house number to tell you to manage your house it's a matter of what is the dollars we're really looking at and how we can help out with the dollars Glen what date are we looking at to make sure we have this come back for you 12 so there's plenty of time I
103mean I would hope February 12th yeah and we may have more information to share as well by that time with what Jeanne is working on with the five other students as well so we might have a more full picture for you you could do that job loss and if there are changes you know the Board of Finance the reason we did our appropriation tonight and I agree with clayman have more discussions have more detail they can't act on anything unless we appropriate it and it's really not being appropriate for them to discuss in any great detail unless there's a motion before them so if you get that information I'm sure the board is the Lachman if we need to make a change would be more than willing to get together and reveal it thank you
104very much our side any questions for so having no more comments I'll make a motion that the Board of Selectmen adjourn a second second all in favor all right I'll make a motion Board of Finance adjourn all those in favor aye then without objection meeting adjourned [Music]