001[Music] okay good evening everybody it's about 7:30 to on Wednesday November 28th I called this special meeting of the Board of Finance to order please rise and join me next on the agenda is public comment are there any members of the public that would like to give comment okay seeing and hearing none we can move on to our only item of new business the new school project so in order to dive into discussion on that I move that the Board of Finance approve the new school project and recommend that the town of Brookfield appropriate seventy eight million one hundred forty one thousand four hundred forty six dollars with a cost after anticipated state of Connecticut grant reimbursement in the amount of sixty three million two hundred ninety four thousand five hundred seventy one dollars to
002finance the costs of the new school project and to issue its bonds or notes and temporary notes in of 63 million two hundred ninety four thousand five hundred seventy-one dollars to finance and appropriations further the Board of Finance recommends the new school project we brought to town meeting a second and now we can get into discussion before to discussion if anyone would like to start once twice like a lot of it's gonna be piggybacking off dance I really didn't was hoping that wasn't the case I was hoping that there were other people had comments or questions or thoughts before I but nobody have nobody else's nobody else on the board has comments or questions is it worth though its if it's going to be a 78 million dollar purchase there's no Board of Finance questions
003well this project has been going on for multiple years and we've had not only a meeting where the Board of Ed and consultant architects did present on it but we also did have the opportunity and our last meeting to go over things and we went into pretty good detail not to mention we've been provided with files to run scenarios in your own time [Music] you know we have estimates of what the impact would be I feel that going into anything else would be better suited for the public hearing at this point no matter what the cost of it is you know this net 63 million more or less by a little bit I mean there's going to be an impact I think it's up to award a selectman in the Board of Education to still
004every year present what the needs of the town and the schools are and for the Board of Finance to evaluate the affordability not in a vacuum we are after year but taking that plan into account if this does move to the voters after tonight and it is approved by referendum then again it would be up to us to make sure that the budgets year after year do conform to a level of affordability so that in X number of years when the bands are on and they convert to actual bonds and they have actual debt service on this project there won't be you know a high cross-section of folks that can't afford it i mmm I have a real fear that that's well I completely completely agree not only that what Steve said last a blessed
005meeting that doing nothing is not an option completely want to pretend agree also completely 100% agree but the plan to consolidate public variant center into a single school and move what's in here over is the right time absolutely agree that what I don't know and have asked and have not been provided we have not been provided anything on other than high level answers is can that be done from a dollar amount meaningfully less than what is put forth here and I'm asking that not because just because I think you know let's try to get something cheaper that's not the reason I'm asking the reason I'm asking is because I have a real fear that we're gonna end up with an eighty million dollar building and inadequate operational budgets year after year after year and we
006end up with a deteriorating school system because of the new school in order for this plan to work it requires that doesn't require this plan has only inflationary increases to school operating budgets and anything above that would be incremental to what's already very high tax increases and if the Board of Finance is going to be forced year after year after year to take this what is presented as school needs and trim them back to something that's affordable and let's be honest something that's passable we're not going to get the quality of instruction because of the the budget that the debt service I did I did some math here and if I just picked numbers because there was nothing else to go on if the school wasn't 78 million dollars but sixty-five dollars I don't know
007if we could do it for 65 million dollars but perhaps after we have this discussion we can can ask for that if the school is done for 65 million dollars that would result and I can go through the details but that would essentially result in an additional five hundred thousand dollars a year for 2021 through 2025 of financial flexibility because of the debt service that's five hundred thousand dollars that we could pour right back into the school budget and not impact the tax numbers that are in this model it would be the difference between annually going with a two to three percent school budget which we all know is barely sustainable to a three to four percent stable budget and something that we can all argue for and get behind as a budget that meets
008the needs of the school and the so I'm gonna request again I don't know what decreasing this the the school project from 78 to 65 million dollars would do we I asked at the public meeting at the the big meeting at the high school I asked two weeks ago and I got it'll impact program it'll impact it but we don't know nobody has shown this is an example of what a 65 million dollar building would be versus a 78 million dollar building perhaps we can - perhaps it's impossible in which case that's a totally different discussion but if it's not but if it's possible and we can see what we're giving up structurally in order to have financial flexibility and not a house of cards model which is really what this is I think it's
009incumbent upon us to at least get that information before that so where I would disagree with that is that we have the tax on had gone through and they gave us the ten options to begin with and and I agree that this option is the best you know combining the schools and having 5th grade in there but they said during the presentation they've said that all along that they're giving us the middle-of-the-road number and unlike the library that there is no limit for size like there are recommendations and we compared it to other towns with our population the school it's all built on equations like space per pupil I mean there's a maximum amount of building space that can be used it's built around the programs that are required by the state so your your
010extracurriculars the number of students that we have in our Board of Education expectation for the class sizes so all of those factors were built into the the model and design that tacked on put together so I don't see that flexibility that you're talking about I mean you reduce the square footage and where's that coming from the gym and the cafeteria and the specials are you making the classroom smaller I mean this they the state doesn't allow you to put fluff in it I mean your fixtures if your design is going to be all glasses is I think where the costs get higher but your from what I understood from what Jeff had explained at the strategic steering committee meetings and the public hearings is that we were given a middle-of-the-road number it's not the highest
011not the low and I don't want to run into what I've heard from everybody that's worked with the high school that we shortchanged the renovation on this project by taking money out and I don't want to look five years down the road like I wish we had done this in that school that just seems like a waste of money going back and so I understand where you're coming from from that my I think that's a question that's better addressed if they break ground and find god knows what and then we need to limit the cost of the building because they found something when they were trying to build it that we needed like a contingent you know if it's outside of the contingency then we certainly to look at those numbers but I think Tecton
012put forth what our school needs based on all of these factors that were built in it wasn't just a number thrown out there or an ideal size it was based on the students the programs the requirements by the state so that's kind of where I fall on that so I understand the concern and I understand the numbers and it's it's a lot but I've heard it from all sorts of people in generations in town saying it's about time we did something with the schools so I think I mean getting the voters out was the is generally the reason why we don't get budgets passed I mean our voter turnout is usually pretty poor and if you talk to people that don't vote they're usually say well I would support it but I didn't go and
013I think that's where we need to work on those numbers for making sure that our programs are sufficiently funded when we're doing our budgets but it is our job to keep the budget in line and when our operating budgets come through that we can you know keep that in check as much as possible but I don't want to shortchange the school and make it smaller than has to be for the sake of 15 million dollars it's gonna cost us 20 million dollars later to repair or bring it up to what it should be did the depth on tech tech time provide the cost for all the 10 options beforehand or whereas if first decided what option we would go with and then they provided with the cost he gave us they gave us ten options
014that were a variety of Ages configurations and then we as a committee compared it down to four but I think along and then the cost to those four were given that it was all broken down the same way that we saw at the presentation every option has broken down that way okay the number of students the number of students in each grade in the schools the square footage that was allotted like all of that information was presented for every single option ahead of time the Board of Ed anemone inspected or well over two years working on us and watch what we're doing they spend vetting this we hired time is that they really then every single thing and there are literally hundreds of state regulations so the size of this building is determined by the
015state if we start to cut back we're going to get the high school I think where we started with about 30 million we need informally we cut out tons of things to value engineering to get it underneath no one was happening to that project and there were other problems and issues it just wasn't how much money you so what we're addressing those with a construction manager or buyer's agent all of those things but here's the thing I think if we may have cut down and one I don't think you know we continue at this forum but now let's if you went to 65 million you're talking about less than the remodel which Tecton has told us will only give us 80 percent of what so now you're probably talking 65 70 percent of what we
016actually need I personally I think that's not the way to go any critical marginalizing special functions than a bottle work putting together this plan that you can look at change the interest rates and change the inflation rate to change the salary rates and look at those who played with those if you run out to the edges either way it's still a workable model discipline techno stop towns are constantly fighting for addition to keep their costs low and sometimes decide then if you know what I said do nothing we're doing the wrong thing is a very bad option and I think you know remodeling or trying to cut this down after I mean this this number didn't come out of nowhere this number came in two years of artwork and I've kind of trust our Board
017of Ed and the strategic committee and our architect the thing and they do I'm convinced they know it very very smart people got a really really good job and I hate to have four years a project that everyone goes what a mistake we left 5th grade of Eliska near because we got to Train my favorite right you're gonna cut I mean we were already getting complaints you don't have enough classrooms you don't have enough gems you've got to have at least two gems well we don't have that this is truly a model and a bill that will meet our needs and that's about it for the next 15 years based on our student population I've God believe we gotta trust the people we do two and a half years of war and to use their
018expertise in guiding this decision what I don't know if that maybe the question was already asked of the architects but couldn't we go back to the architects and just say hey if you were to cut something what would you cut how much would it save and then just know what to your point what the the options are that just say your best that several times and again got very high level it would impact programming but beyond that very little so that's that's really what I asked but then you would know what exactly I mean when they might say well you could cut the gym and you might say oh no I don't want to cut the gym but at least you would would know that's what I'm suggesting a civil calendar I don't have any
019high-level answers that you're looking for a low-level answers that were looking for the building is based on 138 thousand square feet and that's based as so and it said on the complex formula based on the enrollment projection that we have if you cut from that this is this is my face there's there's not a whole lot of fluff and fat there anyway if you're cutting anything from that you're cutting building quality so maybe you're not getting a 50 year building you're getting a 30 year building and based on it you're cutting the systems and you may be cutting size some too but that is really difficult because every single space we have it's used if you're looking at cutting that much you're going to remodel option which is sixty nine thousand six hundred and fifty
020two which when you look at it's a higher reimbursement rate it the total estimate to the cost would be fifty two thousand versus sixty three thousand that too carries a host of problems that carries a double the construction cost the uncertainty and unknown of what you're getting and not getting everything we need for students and the impact of the students who are there yeah 100% so that's why this is the best option we thought do I have exactly the programs and specifics as to what a model would look like no but that's a significant amount to come it would get us probably to the bare-bones right I mean I just threw that number out as an example I don't know I mean that doesn't have to be the the guiding number but if if the
021directive to Tecton was it needs to be unique we need options that are small or what would you do and they would come back with yours though here is the lowest and this is this is why it's awful and here his brain is in between 65 is I can just do that out as a number but I simply fear for the financial flexibility that this bond offering is going to hamstring us and not let us do literally anything else for a long time and when we look at annual budgets and we try to get annual budgets passed and they get cut they're not going to be cut from the debt service or gonna be cut from other stuff and there is every other every single other aspect of the town will be impacted praylis and
022I just was hoping to see you know if there was a way to mitigate that and if the answer's no answer's no but if it's yes we can get that in a short period of time and we see the impact that's that's what I was aside from the cost the school is there anything in the assumptions that you found to be unnerving or unrealistic not necessarily no I thought and again I've said it privately undoubtedly I think the model in the projections here the is amazing absolutely made it and I think that it has led to the fact that we've been able to have deep discussions with very little you know questions because it's so good so I really don't I mean and the quest the back-and-forth has been good as well if you have
023an average price at Sears when it's kind of question for you so people are going to make a vote on increasing their taxes movie space leaving apart and separate from the normal operating budget people are going to say okay my taxes at the highest for this school I understand that I accept that I voted yes so that separates it from our normal operation because people will expect their taxes to go up a certain percentage shuts for school I bet it's very reasonable percentage so I don't think it will have significant understand your concern a big number like this you go oh my god please go south the economy goes south start losing their jobs we could have this problem I'm sorry I thought that was on um but we have to work based on what
024we believe our best guesses are using the best information we have at hand using conservative numbers which we have and that doesn't hamstring us right the plan we have shows us spending going up to five million dollars a year in capital spending with virtually in a few years all of that being cash that that's a huge cushion so if you have a bad year or something god forbid happens you could always cut back on your capital projects for one year or borrow because I agree with you in your comments team your email if we cannot borrow for capital purposes every single year we have got to get out of that habit and we've shown a plan here that we can do that it's not going to be easy this town doesn't vote big tax increases
025without really really good reasons but I think we've shown a way we can do it in a reasonable conservative fiscally prudent manner and still build the school that I think we need and that we spent two and a half years designing that's how I feel and I would bow to our experts on this to Colette and her team and our advisor tech time they are much more expert than we are at decided what size of school should be I don't know that I just don't and I know the directions the Board of Ed is giving tech time we want a school that will meet our needs we don't want the super fancy frills we don't want anything extra special we don't need six gyms although some people want to gyms so this project is right
026where it should be and I believe that I believe they've done their due diligence right down to the last square foot and I don't know how you convince people of that but if you'd watch what they've done over the last two and half years I think everyone would have a very high comfort level with that experts are not I mean still gotta ask questions yeah absolutely thank you for that thanks okay it's really no talk too much you're do you want to sorry do you want to get into the hole I know this is part of but separate from this discussion but the kind of agreement with the board with our being okay you won't get anything huh you won't get any agreement no and they commit to three at this table before five of
027us or yeah I was talking about and again you're gonna have yeah I mean I've made my friend my point that you know like you said the overall budget is going to impact the operational budget and we need to kind of hold our selves to a standard of we can't let it get past a certain crazy point but we also can't just give up things and start striking away at numbers just for the sake of straight coming down like everything has to be really well thought out but we also have to be mindful of what the future holds so I mean I think we you know even after the last budget and what we went through I think we could all agree like we're gonna be in for a doozy no matter what and we're
028gonna be super mindful cuz we don't want to go through three months of budgets so I don't that would that's just might take and I think it's an exercise better handled in March about wrecks going through the budget while we're dealing with real numbers in front of us and then we can kind of use that to help model what the future holds and I'm willing to at this point commit to the fact we'll still evaluate the needs of the town in the school versus affordability and be mindful of what's been presented in the plan and how it's all rolled up to the proposed increases and we haven't even asked nor is that in the calendar yet for Steve to put forth the budget so we have no idea what's coming yeah there's no idea thank
029you thank you thank you answer in this upcoming budget year we know what we're gonna get from the state because they've guaranteed that we don't see anticipate any large changes in our budget yeah but you don't know have you gotten all of your department responses yeah no you know haven't gotten but we've had a conversation education you know yeah we have got anything from the board of that yeah but on our side we don't anticipate any big changes in anybody's budget except for normal salary increases and it's some adjustments here and there fire marshal budget will probably go up a little bit on the revenue side we do anticipate significant increases in some of our revenue like doubling some of those revenue numbers for next year yeah next year engine trees the legacies are going
030to more than double Whitney's new projects we didn't put that in the model because it's a one-time it just you're nothing further I'll call the motion on the table to vote all those in favor of the motion has put forth indicate by saying aye [Music] okay I think we're doing right things dance any members of the public join us for comment still milk nothing do we need to do determine the date for the time it was proposed in the Board of Selectmen so yeah I think it was with a date if it isn't we will do it on Monday night we will set the town right hearing that the public hearing and this pendant the the reference the agenda for that public hearing is is what should we talk about that yeah we talk about
031that I would think it would be another presentation of a school project by the Board of Ed a presentation on the financials over here at the public hearing yet just to give everybody because once now this moving forward we're gonna get a lot more people paying attention and they're gonna be B we're gonna come and probably half of them who have no knowledge of the project and so I think it would behoove us to do the full presentation again you guys agreement and a book that's not fair but but the result of the public hearing is not too distant yeah yeah yeah the public hearing is simply to set the referendum date set not to make a decision in before or backward not haven't I that needs to be willows us yep yeah I agree
032with you do we have any ideas of how else we can get word out about that it's cute well because let's and the board have a communication plan that they're working on and so they'll start I think probably in the next few days beginning to go out and do that communication we've all agreed that we're going to have one communication stream so that it comes from Collette and the board of that and that way every question that comes in it's going to get answered put on the frequently asked questions so anybody can go and look at that website to see exactly what the plan is what the questions are what the costs are and there's no confusion not another Facebook murkiness you know people plucking stuff out misinterpreting things right so I think that's what
033and they have a whole communication plan they're gonna use because I'd love to see what we got in this last election 70% of the people coming out vote not just 30% of the people deciding for everybody so if we do a good communication was forwarded from the Board of Selectmen Town Meeting in January yeah so there's no date what we'll do on Mondays will propose a date and proposed a referendum date and we'll just move on from there and then a friend of kameno more than 90 days from the Town Meeting that's being 45 days from the public hearing to between 45 yep between 45 now but we'll be fine I'm just thinking for having enough time to get the word out and as you keep people in yeah and talking to collecting the Board
034of Ed they're ready to go all right they've been working on a communication plan so first week of March hopefully we have a referendum that gives enough time if it gets approved to actually do the designs get the work done and get it into the state by June 30th that's the critical date will work intact otherwise we have the way to hold over here and I would be very uncomfortable building a school starting construction without knowing how much the state reimbursement is going to be and numbers are going to change yeah and those are probably going to go down next year given the state's finances second favor hi meeting adjourned date up [Music]