Board of Finance Meeting 3-20-18

001[Music] okay welcome everyone today is Tuesday March 20th this is a special meeting of the Brookfield Board of Finance I call this meeting to order to stand and join me from pledge allegiance pledge allegiance to the fire of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation okay first item on the agenda is public comment no members of the public here with us there's no public comment le'me illegal to do business and that is 2018-19 an open field budget workshop discussion essentially a continuation of what we were talking about last night does anyone want to go through a recap of what we did last night or would we like to move it along so we could tackle to tackle the big one so as we all know the biggest

002item on our budget is school operations and right now we have a proposed budget from the Board of Selectmen forty three to forty three million twenty two thousand one hundred fifty one dollars for an 1819 year before full we dive into details any high level general comments on that if not we can just start right up so that is about $180,000 lighter than the Board of Education and as Steve excessive did explain the Board of Selectmen is thinking on that so now we will begin our deliberations I would say from from that standpoint I have some thoughts does anyone like to share theirs before I get mine do you want it did you want to discuss the contingency and the additional funding that we gave to schools we can yet we can do that I

003thought more about the note that you had sent me and I have a concern about restating numbers it's more so Steve had sent me a question on if we wanted to restate some of the board the numbers to account for what was given to them through contingency funding does anyone have any thoughts on that it's not it's not exactly what was appropriated to them it has her the last budget but it would represent I think more of a management and view at this point were those numbers included in collects presentation the Board of Education included one hundred and twenty seven hundred twenty thousand seven hundred and twenty seven in their baseline right one hundred twenty thousand more than this number and their thinking was that excuse me that money that was appropriate as part of

004this year's budget Rhonda we did that last year additionally there's four hundred and seventy thousand five hundred that we had to give them for special ed you know even after they made all their changes so their opinion is that changes their baseline for this year's budget they're the only thing that does has changed percentages and increases but for some people that's important oh it less than the percentage increase right so we have one person that was there your honor is there a reason why that wasn't included because they did their budget well before we gave him the 470 but in your draft though yeah of this that you sent to us I didn't consider it and we literally should have but I would want to have a discussion with you because if we start changing

005their last year's numbers it gets to be and that's certainly if for review purposes I think it's a good thing to do but for actual documentation I think mission I think we should leave it where it is I don't know it's a tougher any opening comments on that I mean technically it was it was budgeted for as part of the town budget as part of that in 702 of the money that was used I'm not certain about reallocating to their visit is it possible to just add a column to show that money that was you know the special in crashing it's a document to show on here that there was already you know what I'm thinking more for the taxpayers to view it later we can do that in the presentation layout for the purposes

006of this yeah I'm not certain that that would be an actual Restatement of their budget yeah anybody have a definitive thought on that my thought is only that if we change it and it lessens the percentage are we really given the true picture to the taxpayers I mean Joe then Joanne sit there and only go out to vote on budgets and they see well on the Board of Ed increases only two percent they're not realizing that it's really a six percent jump from prior year is that fair to them because most of the people that watch us that read us know the numbers so whether we play the semantics or not the semantics or the the right wrong and different and however you want to word it it's the Joe and the Joanne and say

007oh it's only 2% and they go to vote it then they realize when my taxes went up six percent in the long run how you handle it right now they're gonna look at 2% and their bill is gonna go up five right in your point but their actual budget this year is higher by five hundred ninety thousand dollars what is my increase of the tax what is the mill rate increase gonna be because that was already the money that was appropriated was already factored in via that 702 so you're saying I raise all those numbers so we're gonna really only raise the budget two percent because it was again it was already factored in on the bottom line and we're making it that jump now so I'm not certain that we would restate 17:18 the

008change would only be the one at 1.3 percent difference take it as a percentage of their budget 600,000 out of 420 is one in 1 point about percent that's another den significant III like fine furs I first of all the question is there a regulation or a rule that says you can or cannot adjust what you're presenting from a previous approved budget I would think that there's a rule against that I don't I hope but I would think I'm checking that I'm meeting with our town lawyer tomorrow my guess is Stan you're right I'm not I'm not sure we can change this right in our official doctor I don't think you should I I would I would expect that to be the case for presentation purposes and when we go to come meeting I think

009Eileen's idea and it's kind of what the board event did is the right way to talk about it because that's what happened here's what was approved here's what had to be added for increased expenses that were anticipated here is and here's the new budget and people can make their conclusions based upon that those are those are the facts the but I thought the Board of Ed and collected a perfect job when she described it to us for the purposes of the exercise this exercise that one look at for trying to gauge what the tax increase is it's gonna be the way we have it now that's yes yet that's how you get that gauge yes still enjoying that's what I'm saying those are the the ones who watch us know the story the ones who

010actually watch this and watch the bored of it know the story dan said Colette said it they know the story it's the other people out there that are just voting on numbers of what they think they can afford those are the people that make those in the morning what some stake are shot people it's hard to understand the budget if you're not really into it they look at what percentage increase are you giving me this is what I'm saying that's why I think we stick to the true number and that's just my opinion I mean just making notes for my presentation okay um all right then if everyone is in agreement I'd like to roll forward I mean it's an excellent point to consider I'm not saying it's a bad point for knocking that point

011but for the purposes of this exercise I think we should roll forward with with this presentation because at the bottom line it is what it is and we would just be moving from that contingency line essentially into the Board of Ed line but that could get a little murky I'd rather not do that because this is what the town approved last year right and it would be an increase that when I'm really thinking about it but let's roll through this thought we found the 470 in account that we don't have anymore so the taxpayer really didn't take the hit in the increase so this increase is real the mill rate increase is going to be real regardless if we change the base number of the Board of Ed the bottom line is the 470 was

012out of a pocket of revenue that we do not have this year to go back to right it was but that we put that aside in a prior budget too for the possibility of having all those medical expenses hit and it was the fact that of those two expenses didn't hit so the folks in town already footed the bill in a prior period but it was a benefit that we could take legally this way but I'm talking here on your increase if nobody you won't see that 470 in here you'll see the increase of a higher percentage right I think we're I think we're on the same page okay so on the subject of discussing the school operations but I did have some exciting discussions today felt like I spend more time on the job

013I don't get paid for what I did hope no one listened but yeah I know but yeah I did have some exciting conversations with Colette and Glen you know I think everyone did a lot of homework on this I mentioned before that the Board of Selectmen did pass a budget cut of a hundred eighty thousand okay and I think we found some ways and these have to be verified a hundred percent by Board of Ed Council we should get that tomorrow but we do have some legal ways to lessen the impact of those cuts without necessarily adding back that full cut into so there's there's two things okay the first there is a Connecticut statute I believe we've exercised it in the past where the Board of Ed can request of the finance up to

0141% of their budget to set that aside essentially on the balance sheet as an make sure I have my words right here as an unexpected education funds account we know for a review of the kafir' last week that the Board of Ed does have an under run about seventy nine thousand dollars so it's well within their right to request to the Board of Finance to set that aside for use in subsequent budget periods to offset expenses okay so that's seventy nine thousand and change I'll just use round numbers so we have one eighty and then we have seventy nine let's say that they could use and then through a lot of due diligence and I thank you for this Glenn we provided some guidance to a Board of Ed and they were able to find

015including interest sixteen thousand dollars of money that was in a fund that didn't belong in that fund so the thought is they can move that out to cover other expenditures in the 1819 budget okay so that's another sixteen so 180 - make sure I have all my facts here straight the 180 - the 79 - the sixteen okay brings it down to about eighty five thousand okay of 85,000 out of that $180,000 cut would remain I'll say as an unfunded request to the board of that and those are legitimate and I believe legal ways of lessening the burden of that cut Colette has committed to working with their counsel mr. Murphy to get a firm answer on that for us tomorrow so in the event that we don't have meeting tomorrow due to weather we

016will have hard answers and determinations to go on for when we pick up on Thursday we'll know exactly where these scenarios lie and I'll say the legality with budgets of actually utilizing those to cover the kind that will make sense does explain I can accept that I can accept that from the point of view I think the last two years the Board of Ed cuts have been or savings have been forced more than managed due to the budget constraints that have happened as you know I always think in 43 million dollars there's always some shake out of a budget and I still stand by that a hundred percent that I think there's always some shake on a budget but I think in prior years within the town the board of it has always been forced

017to add in little bits of money to cover expenses that they don't foresee because the typical way and it's worked is they've gone to the board a finance the board of finances said no and the process is broken down a little bit I'd like to see if we go this route that we don't we consider not adding in that eighty six thousand dollars and we let the system work to cover that in other words the system is if the Board of Ed has an unexpected expense they go to the board of selectmen ask for an appropriation just like we did with the special ed money the Board of Selectmen reviews it they come to the Board of Finance the Board of Finance then approves it I think that if we start the process slowly we

018can get these budgets down to a much leaner budget get rid of some of these pockets of safety which they were forced to build in I'm not saying they built them in they were first in the past the building these pockets of safety because in the past they go to the Board of Finance the first thing would be no before the word even came out of the mouth I think that the boards and last year's board was good I'm not going to say they were good about it to us I think we need to start building the trust amongst the boards and allowing the system to work instead of building bigger budgets to cover these deficiencies I think that if we use and use a contingency fund like Sean said we use some of the

019Student Activity money and we say the $80,000 you've tried to manage it on your side as in a forty-three million dollar budget I think there's some room for $80,000 and if something were to come up we would go through the process let the process work we order c4 right they go to Steve at the Board of Selectmen Steve sue and Harry vote on the merit of what they think is a good expense I don't think the Board of Ed is that it had a safety net as what I'm trying to say I don't think they've ever had it so they've been forced into these positions of padding a little bit here and there I agree with you and we have two things one this is less than one-quarter of 1% 85,000 remember we're gonna have

020teacher turnover and then choose the okay let's not assume any savings given the possibilities of what could potentially happen I mean it was just a teacher retires at 95,000 and we hire one at 65,000 every year in fairness every year I would follow on that and in fairness every year Steve's right it might not be the 300 thousand or 40,000 this year but prior year was a hundred and some thousand prior year before that was three hundred thousand we might be in a law of where it might not be as much you know that that is going on it is usually there is but I'll say and let the system work what's my only concern is I don't that 85,000 - follow me have them look and say okay we can't hire that extra e

021ll teacher that we had in her proposal if you can't you know that's my concern about sure you're having an underfunded request the dude seemed like they weren't asking for much extra beyond and I understand the you know finding some savings but I just want to keep that Steve can you remind us and everybody the rationale for that where that was outlined by lion custody came up with the 180 or was it knows it just up but no it was we looked at we thought you know we have little pockets and our goal was and this was not unanimous Harry and I both believe budget to get this increase under 5% because remember at the end of the day we got to get the residents to vote for it and if this budget does not

022get passed we're being immoral to hurt I mean we're gonna have to be pushing and shoving to get a budget that people can pass and do it very very quickly otherwise we're gonna lose another summer of construction at the schools usually and we need some we need this construction to be done he lost one summer not last year a year before because we had to push back the date for the referendum to get him on the same day so I want to give the schools every penny that they need for their kids but historically if you look back ten years every year they've had teacher turnover people retired they have five hundred some-odd employees most of them teachers and a certain amount retire and usually we don't have to pay they've been here thirty years

023in making the top salary and last year they used a lot of that over job on hiring highly qualified people at higher salaries but I think that there would be money there I'd be shocked that there wasn't and then there's a to Glenn's point if we get to the point where we're really hard hit were their market or let's say no teachers retired and they really need that eighty five thousand they can come to us and we have proven true to our word if you come to us we will pay you on the health insurance for the hundred and twenty thousand we said take it out of your budget you have an overage will fund it and we do so we're building that level of trust right I'll speak well yet before I apologizes we're

024looking at less than a half a percent so think about that hon a hundred thousand dollar salary what's that five hundred bucks that you need to find in your budget yeah it's not a lot I think they can find it and I think it's the start of getting the trust and taking out some of these pockets and getting to a leaner but I don't think that half a percent is going to be catastrophic to losing positions I really believe in my heart that they can in my heart I didn't maybe I'm wrong that they could find a way to find that kind of money if we help them out with a hundred thousand on the top site which we weren't committing to do and then we start to build this trust and the contingency fund

025which Shaun has thought about putting forward if they have the savings on the salary and Ricky you're saying we don't if they do say that we don't know if that's you know we're gonna hopefully build up enough trust with this contingency can roll forward for the next year and instead of this money being just absorbed and done and the old use it or lose it mentality because that's what they're forced into unfortunately and it's a use-it-or-lose-it type of matter wrong mentality maybe but I'm saying the mentalities if they can foresee it and then they could manage their funds better going forward it might help us all out in the long run so I'm gonna I'm not I'm not sure which way I'm leaning then I'd have to point out a fact that's in the transmittal

026letter or the the letter to the front of our budget book pointing out the source of the increase of that of the increases where most of the increases for the special to the budget were due to special ed or staff or status quo increases the through club pays the net cost of new enhancements to the school budget was ninety three thousand seven hundred seventy five dollars so by doing what we're suggesting we're slicing out every enhancement that was proposed and sticking with the status quo budget essentially what he's also sangs this status quo included pockets of C I know I understand that if you listen to the last board event meaning which I know you did they were talking about very the last hundred thousand eighty thousand was not critical matter okay I won't mention

027it here but if you watch that deliberation the last eighty thousand was not oh my god the skys falling it was another it was a management decision it wasn't a program cut it wasn't an initiative cut it was not a new fund cut it was a pocket that maybe could be more efficient and you listen to them the meeting as well yeah so and that was a hundred thousand dollars so I still think and I hear what you're saying in 93 but I still just even based on watching their meetings and listening it wasn't like oh my god we're gonna lose an e ll teacher we're gonna lose a program we're gonna lose anything it was still something that was achievable without in my opinion and and without devastation because they weren't that was four

028to three day voted right it was a four to three split vote on the last hundred thousand on the board so three of the members were choosing to cut the hundred thousand and four chose not to there was remember you know when the school year is over that's when teachers retire that gives them three months to hire new teachers they don't know what their actual costs are going to be they usually can hire the teachers pretty quickly occasionally they have a problem but they'll know before the school year starts so it's all like we're cutting something out that can't be put back in it of every expense in the school budget I would hate to see them scrimp on hiring a good teacher who doesn't salary yeah I'd hate that the worst thing though is

029we put forward a budget that gets voted down we have to balance these things it's not easy I dream it's not easy I don't think they skimmed in so we know they know the numbers they're the right teachers even if it's one for one that's the right person hiring and they know how to do that and they know what they're doing and I don't have those skill sets but if you look over the last ten years they've always had money left because there are teachers your standard English teacher do you need iron somebody with 30 years experience they make the determination which is somebody good at Aniak school from Yukon and they just historically they've had money left yeah so this $79,000 school contingency or whatever that were finding out if they can roll into

030next year as another spend so them jumping ahead to next year's budget you know this Student Activity fee the sixteen thousand is at one time savings like the sick of them the money that was appropriated for the special ed and then this is seventy nine thousand potentially is at one time savings also especially for expecting the budget we may not expect that type of rollover to be available for the five years so just considering moving forward that maybe next year we end up seeing these numbers but it there's a a very small increase here yeah every will have the big special hope but you also have the chance of the teachers retiring into savings I'm the salary man like Steve said that we could roll into so again the salary savings should have real no

031effect on a budget that to me should actually come back to the town or be rolled forward into this contingency because you're basing your budget on expenditures and if you save two hundred thousand on salaries that's not a savings or a management thing that's just money to fell into your lap fiction and if we're saying your role you might see these salaries come in this year and roll that forward now back to the Student Activity account I still believe there's another twenty thousand in there if not 40,000 and Colette's checking on it but I looked up the true definition of what's supposed to be in a Student Activity fund it's not a lot that we have in there the finds of the library books not supposed to be in there that's eight thousand the fines

032on textbooks or another ten thousand there's another twenty thousand in there that by definition by the way I read the state statute do not belong in there the the security monitor by definition of the state statute does not belong in the Student Activity account now that's my interpretation we need legal interpretation I can see Shawn saying that but this this the statue says it should be for the lunch money which is a different account which is not Tao money so everybody realized that's parent money it should be for student ed and club money that's what the student a fun and we have like I say it counts for fines for textbooks accounts for lost library books game ticket athletic ticket sales there's another 30 to 40 and we still have that other crossover that we

033got to figure out I know collect in the board event or work in our nada I'm not this is not a put-down but they answer your question I think there's more money in this account that we're gonna see next year and I think as we get better at budgets and we tighten them up and we take this salary move these contingencies forward it's easier to fund everything it's a it's a straighter line item a straighter way to see it and we're looking at a big increase this year all around I think we've gone a long way towards getting much more open and transparent budgets and when people see transparent budgets they look at them and say ok that's the right number I should vote yes if they think there's shenanigans going on they go I'm

034not sure right I think we're getting we're getting there much when you a great like it's getting better much better so all right Shawn you're turning away and you said no I mean I I set the thing down in the 85 that's my boat that's my thoughts on how to make up a lot of this difference in the cotton and like I said tomorrow now as soon as I get word from Colette that their counsel says yes these are go ahead these are the right things to do that I'll share that with everyone how does that get does that get thrown into some sort of breath you bucket and then as an expense its money they already have it's already there they were just transferred from one life to another they take it out of

035here yeah and it's not any money that's doing activity - going it's not club money it's not like the the Chess Club increasing the school budget all right that stays the same down 180k but then they have this other source of funds but they can also utilize so the board is not on paper or not increasing the Board of Selectmen reduce their budget by 180 Shaun has found seventy nine thousand on that one eighty within their current funding apparatus the Student Activity account and other funds so we're really talking about cutting their budget from what they requested by eighty five thousand out of 43 million that's less than one quarter of one percent but the mechanics are such that the proposed operations would remain and there's other there's other funding that would be illegal for

036them to use but that's a carryover yeah just like they look at it here's our revenue from the town here's our cue from this grant here's our revenue from that grant because they do get Medicaid all those things that they get this would just be a transfer from we're taking it from this account and putting it in our general operating budget and because of the way we set up our books correct me if I'm wrong they're tracking revenues now than the muni system so this won't be like it has been in the past this will be a transfer to align a visible line item yes we're gonna see this next year we'll see so you know we talked about them being we speak of them being able to come to us that they do have

037a contingency item do we have our contingency boats awareness to be I'm just thinking of the the line items that contingency things that we've been asked for this year outside of the school budget and you know if we're going in with the idea that they they have they can trust us to provide that are we okay on that contingency line we talked last night if the state cuts us the total cut difficult if it goes the Malloys which the party has said he doesn't believe it well and it never has before there's about 200,000 that leaves us another 200,000 in contingency came--it 702 is where we started with this year and right now we're down at 200,000 and that didn't go it didn't all go to the schools I mean no it didn't so I'm

038just I'm what we anticipated other be thinking ahead dissipated other amounts of we were gonna get larger cuts in the grants said I would anticipate it that's why we brought it down to 400,000 because we know we brought it down to our last night that's what we asked talking about yeah so yes that route the contingency last night well we did it move it we didn't vote on it we just moved it as a placeholder yeah so I'm just looking at that supposed to offset write you off said that we took the revenue down with offset zero now I mean we don't know what the governor's gonna do right for what the Legislature's gonna move on for that so we could we could put another 50 into that contingency to account for any bogeys on

039that side I don't think that would be out of the realm of possibility to do there would be let's say 250 thousand in that contingents of them instead of just 200 thousand I'm just looking at our what our contingency fund got hit with this year and we had the fire and ambulance repair we had Medicare supplement insurance coverage which we have talked about and it sounds like we tried a budget that appropriately every year but because there are factors out of our control we don't always know if it's not a solid number we can work with so just I mean in the years that we had a $50,000 contingency where did that did you just not get hit with those types of things or where did that come from Bridgette it's very hard to say

040okay I believe that we did get hit with those sorts of things but since we're more in closing our books at the end of the year and we got our general fund down 3.3 million okay or we lost the cells was probably I don't we don't know I also can't say either way what they did but they're pretty clear if you look at most towns in Connecticut that are very well rated and do very well they have a pretty healthy contingency because you know you can't account for every possible future outcome right and we don't want to issue a supplemental tax bill and we don't want to hit our general fund the net of it is if you don't use your contingency fund it rolls into your gen upon unassigned general fund rate which we're

041trying to build up to ten percent plus so that's a plus plus you got protection against issuing supplemental tax bills or hitting your general fund and if at the end of the year you don't use it it rolls into your general fund now I wouldn't recommend a million dollar contingency fund you know if we wanted to build up our general fund they can make an appropriation transfer to general fund but this protects you up either way it protects you I mean like that last night we underestimated like the ECS grand you know maybe consider moving that down so that were you know for being conservative on the revenue side that protects us it it protects you but it also human nature gives you a a safety net and cushion that if you don't have your

042debt you're you're operating leaner and you have you're looking for other avenues rather than oh yeah sure I got this to 150 thousand dollars thanks that's lucky money and a credit card side but I could be open to fifty thousand for the fact of we went from seven then we're working more on it I could be open to the fifty thousand under the understanding of the again I read state statutes today and I'm dangerous I admit and I could be wrong so my understanding of the contingency fund is that cannot be moved I must the Board of Finance approves it so if Steve can't just say oh we're going to take this money out of the contingency fund he has to come to us and I do think that we have a fair makeup of

043people on here I mean we've had myth boats that we split so I'm pretty open to that we can make our decision so I say we've had enough split votes on this board where I feel that we can come to a conclusion that would probably work so I'm not up for 300,000 but I could sure be in for 250 as a compromise but I don't want to use it as a credit card I want to I'm so like you did I want to manage with him budgets and utilize it and that's what I guess sort of the proposal for the Board of Ed we're asking for us you know eighty thousand of help and they can do it that mean from their first ask this is eighty thousand this isn't like we've cut them and

044we caught them we're going back from the first ask eighty thousand to try to manage it without something happening I think is asking them to live within their budget and not use it as a contender or a credit card as well and it creates a unanimous bipartisan support for not by me that creates the entire Board of Selectmen entire Board of Finance at higher court Abed just pushing forward with a budget that we're actively supporting to the town that we feel I think we can though I don't think we can do that I actually believe that right now I think that with the makeup that we have I think that Sean's relationship was Collette is very good I think it's trustworthy and I think that Steve can hold up his under the triangle if I

045could just remind everybody the board can move up to 20,000 dollars now with our new ordinance within a department anytime we want to move money from one department and this is one department let's say to Public Works we have to get Board of Selectmen importer finance approval and we've always done that we will never use the contingency without going to you guys because that wouldn't be right and it also it's illegal small details but no Glenn is right we don't want to use this as a little piggy bank that we can use it why do you want to do this project I wanted to know the answer's no I think at some point we got let the system work we got to get back to what the system's supposed to be and I think everybody

046was forced and I think again the Board of Ed was always forced into well if it's 28,000 make it 30,000 because if we're not gonna be able to get the money if we fall up short and I think we got to start somewhere I'm building up this trust and move it forward that's it's in my opinion okay so we do further comments on that well I wouldn't feel comfortable moving education until we get the firm answer from the Board of Ed Council that's number one number two there's a chance that were cancelled tomorrow so we would wrap up the biggest portion of the budget Thursday essentially if there's anything else that we want to talk about as far as Board of Education is concerned Shawn what what wording did you use for that fund the

047unexpected expense fund for the really unexpended unexpended education funds account and that is section 10 - two four eight a in chapter 171 time management yeah maybe you can talk about what we actually brought in this audit that we are looking to bring to the general fund reserve fund I don't think we've said the number no well yeah I was going to I was no topic the other way okay right but it's not published up right but I expected it's not published it but can we say what we anticipate you know [Music] right so we met with so we're gonna be I'm gonna be presenting to the Board of Finance also on Thursday the results of the audit the what Glen is talking about is is the 2000 the 2017 audit is going to add

048a bit over a million dollars of general fund from where it was at the end of 16 to the end of 17 meaning that the revenues for 2017 exceeded expenses by by a little over a million dollars and we had a very positive impact to the general fund in Alaska school year that's it that's us that's a good thing it's a very good thing so part of this money that we're talking about tonight the seventy nine thousand that Sean brought up at the beginning was the board of EDS extra money the unused budgeted money so it's not well you know I don't want to have people freak out over taking it for that we're gonna put over 1 million dollars to the general reserve fund even if we utilize this or allowed the Board of

049Ed to utilize this money right right so it's bit right I mean it's there it was it that the close of 17 so right yes right correct that's great that's great so we had a good year and we're trying to offset some of the costs of a heavy expenditure year utilizing some money that's already been paid for by the taxpayers that's right I agree to that questions comments concerned and that was just a lot of information from the last 45 minutes it's coming from the town side education site that's consolidated it's all consolidated at the end of the year is a matter of these companies you can tell right big the audited financials but it's all just one big dive the larger portion is on that downside okay do we want to see what it

050looks like if we were to add for the sake of argument 52 that contingency you see it a vacuum that doesn't mean anything because you [Music] I guess it does whoops that's too many zeroes try and tribute back I know zeroes [Music] also on that tax tip there on the the revenue tip did you add 52 and that's gonna be how for you right being Christy essentially the expenditures moved so now we have to add plus 50,000 there and that should then flow there's an actual surrounded it still 1.55 absolutely increase tonight I'd okay with that I mean I'm one with Dan I'll be a hundred percent and I want to see us manage it and really manage it hard but just to cover ourselves I'm okay with that [Music] and then the contingency is

051is just that it's not you're marked for a specific thing necessarily yes but at the end of the day everything that comes out of that contingency fund does run through the Board of Finance I believe at one of our last regular meetings Steve did present to us an accounting of what's come out of that general fund what we had remaining for that 700 mm in the current budget so the expectation would be to have that running forward I think until obviously we close out the year for that 702 and then what it would be if this doings forward out of that 251 we should know because you're going to be approving it all right but a proper accounting yeah but take a scraper unemployment where was our thing might be hit with as a year

052goes through that's something we can attach to the minutes yeah data so that everyone knows exactly where that came out of any further commentary or deliberations on on that update so if we tap the contingency fund unexpectedly the unexpected events where do we go next the only time we can tap it before a contingency fund if there is a genuine emergency and the boys luckily get together I'm not sure what that would be right I don't what statute is pretty clear on has to be gentle an emergency you have to declare the emergency and then you have to allocate the funds and then come back to the board and tell them why you did this and take take the example we had last week right death where there was an emergency generators shut down and

053we needed to quick get something fixed apparent that's something that would quick appropriate of a general fund I was replenished later with bond proceeds but no that's what that's for something like that the only thing I can think of is let's say we lost two of our ambulance using this within a couple days of each other and we needed it either rent them or buy them very very quickly right but even that it's a there's a time period to buy it to get an ambulance delivered so I don't even think that would qualify well we might have to rent one I'm just trying to think of things what about like a weather emergency Steve like a hurricane or something yes okay yes you know if we had a higher that's a good example let's say

054we had what happened down in Westport they lost 60% of their streets in the last storm before last and they kind of hire crews outside crews to come in and start clearing those streets because it was an emergency situation and their police and fire could not access most of the restaurant residents you know what if we had a higher crews to come in we would do that immediately that's a that's a whole nother again now you're talking FEMA help you're talking a lot of different things that dis or ten pounds up yeah yeah but by the time the theme against you right now I appreciate that I mean and then correct me if I'm wrong again because when we spoke to the auditors the general fund the reserve fund is to be used for these

055things as long as it's used properly absolutely this was not a hit on our bond rating this was not a hit if we managed properly even if we have to go to the reserve from which none of us want to do let me be clear but that account is set up for this situation that's why you're supposed to be at ten percent to be able to use it when you hit an emergency that you can't fund in your budget that's unexpected and that's not frowned upon by the reading of the rating industry as long as it's not tapped into every year right absolutely right if it if it's used for emergency and then there's a plan if you absolutely and we talk to the article absolutely this week non-defining yes we did so to put

056your point we can use the fund properly and not take an adverse rating effect so something we're definitely like we're talking about and to be on the other side of this we got to get better at managing their budgets if we can't manage within a certain percentage of a contingency fund I mean that shows we got to figure it out and get smarter and I think we have the rating agencies will look at frown upon very heavily if you're using that general fund as a stopgap 20,000 40,000 30,000 then they say you're not budgeting properly but if you're constantly hitting that that's why I bid against hitting that at all if there was a true hurt you see a true unexpected you go in there and rating agencies would say what did you do why

057did you do it okay we understand it and it will not affect your radio but if you're dipping in there a number of times they're going to say you don't have the financial discipline that we want to see understand yeah so what what flow of decision-making goes on Steve do you have to go to air counsel or how do you to when you still have to do so yeah the Board of Selectmen can declare an emergency and spend money immediately okay then have to provide the reason to both the Board of Selectmen ourselves and to you tend to go through the process then we try to do that it's going to be a really rare occurrence where we maybe it's a Saturday night they have a hurricane but we're gonna know that anything and we

058have to do something and we would do it okay I don't think you I don't know of any case when it's actually been enacted in Brookfield where the Board of Selectmen had an emergency expenditure clearly if you know it affects life or help but a safety of our residents it was probably the only things that would qualify to be really clear if we talk about the bigger picture this whole thing is are we really gonna cut enough out of a first wave budget to really make it where that amount of money really is gonna put us into crisis control because if we're looking at right now as we stand we've only underfunded the port of it by 80,000 in general the town size 20 million if we go through it now and we we take

059out another hundred thousand or two hundred thousand what are we talking to 280,000 on a sixty three million dollar budget if we can't manage two hundred eighty thousand dollars with it sixty three million we're in trouble we're in trouble period the towns in trouble it's just not conceivable to me I mean will it be tough will it make maybe some things not go to way we want it to go possibly but in the big picture the scare that we're talking about I think is something it's gonna be a bigger number there has to be something to address that just might unless we're cutting the townsite by catastrophic and then that's a different ballgame to talk about [Music] discussion so just going going through the tabs we have there as they're presented several for right now

060comfortable with revenue as has been presented I don't have any questions on education cost sharing our and the other things that were in there do it go through that last night yep okay we covered education right we touched on the contingency so those are both on the expenditures tab I'm we can take it through we can take it through expenditures that's really where we should lay off right now I like getting with that but I mean as everybody else is Dan and Rick to me yeah [Music] right do we want to go department by department or line by line right so first up the select nerds office any thoughts in there total it goes up the request is an increase of 7.4 9% primarily driven percentage-wise by office and supplies and travel and conference dollar-wise

061that the main driver is not union wages where's the tap with the actuals for prior years do we have that understand if you if you went to individual take the one that I sent out in the individual departments yeah the actuals were only inserted on that expenditures tab and there's expenditure if there's actuals for 1617 oh actually we have actual isn't there I apologize for a fourteen fifteen and fifteen six did you want to see more than one year of actuals mate Ricky maybe expand that and then hide the budget columns there so hide the yeah I don't that I don't write up to thank you and then let's just see the foot three years or four years perfect and then since we're only midway through we didn't know six plus six without that budgeted

062for a 1718 right so if we look at if you now go over to the percentage caller whenever I see 26:23 percentage increases and you go to prior year data that go back over here twenty nineteen hundred and twenty six I always have concerns it's just me I'm not saying that I always see that those accounts are there always the accounts that get over compensated for the year before I took office the continuing education travel and dues when the first eleven was actual spend of nine damas $9,000 that doesn't make it right I didn't say makes him right but there are a lot of things I pay for personally well you shouldn't so let's be clear on that if you don't leave with you you should have do the reasons there's news I just like

063I say that's an area and I can pick an example that in the town clerk's life budget you'd have the town clerk going in to conferences you use last year's data as the conference base so it was the nicely done that I'm not making anything but in that the conference is in South Barry's so you already have hotels built into her travel to stay at South Barry now that's true why would we have an expenditure for hotels in South Barry when none of us would be staying at a hotel in our companies if we were in South Barry we'd be driving to it from the conference it's a conference in their own angel that evening there are presenters and meetings to meet with your other town courts when you go to a conference you're at

064a conference you're there for three days therefore to MLR many days going in and out you don't get as much knowledge as when you sit down at dinner with somebody talk to them how do you handle this out of you handle I go to more conferences and anybody in this table it upon itself Barry on that standard hotel I'm a damn very I'm not staying at a hotel if I'm in Hartford I'm not staying at a hotel if I'm in New York sometimes I don't stay in a hotel I do my do I do my business and I'm able to get home and I'm saying these are when we're making hard decisions that's where I see travel accounts and I'd go to more conference I'm a sales guy I go to more sales conferences than

065you can shake a stick at and to me these are the areas that I see we can squeeze down on and that's when I see big percentages that's just again the thought process of big jumps and travel I think you talk big percentages in cases some cases we're talking $500 because a budget might absolutely stiva I know your relative versus absolutely right yeah if we have $100,000 item and we're increasing in 25 percent okay that's real money that's 25 grand that's why that's why you use percentages though when you do a lot of things you base it on percentages and what I'm saying is 500 here 500 there 600 here before you know what I got 15,000 to put something at Center school that's I'm trying to say when I'm just saying when I see

066big percentage jumps because if you go here and I know I'm starting off but it has a merit to it Gotha so your travel and office supplies lines with the two lines went up 23 to 25 percent right there 25 percent of travel go down to the next office would we go up and travel [Music] 20 percent I mean it's just it flows through you're right it's small dollar Steve I'm not gonna lie to you and you're absolutely correct but each department 20% increases on the Travel line not each department somewhat doubt I yes you're correct but the town clerk we have a new town court she's going to attend more conferences we want her fully qualified as a town clerk there are a lot of classes she gets CEUs going in these conferences and

067like first thing for one want a fully qualified town clerk yes agreed and so we totally are in Warriner training we just do I think it's penny wise pound foolish not to have the best trained people again we're also in the town clerk's office now we used to have a separation one of her employees would do all of these things one of another one would just do the vital statistics or cross training them so they think you need to vote so that requires training for both of them also this isn't just for the town court themselves I think it's a reasonable expenditure you guys can decide what you want to do I think it's reasonable [Music] I mean the optics of staying at a hotel in South Korea I can see that's not great no

068not great we change that and in fairness I know she based it off of the last year's to get a best but that was just an example of when you're doing this that's always seems to be a category that seems thin you're right it's small number Steve I'm not gonna lie to you they add up as you say they do and that's when I see that the biggest if you look at all your other line items even throughout the budget to a percent three percent four percent you're very consistent on a lot of the other line items it just seems that those are the ones that seem to have the bigger numbers that's all it was just a point to bring up any proposals any discussion not needed wages that's a big one as well

069so we had that offline executive session discussion a week or so ago none of that's flown through these numbers here in right we hadn't changed we had a discussion but we have not made any changes tennies now I mean again that's a tough thing to do I've listened to what Steve has had to say about we're not in other towns levels we have dedicated employees my heart says anything above 4% is a tough number to give anybody in today's world I understand what you're saying so yeah it's not like I'm not listening to what you're saying I hear the dedication and I know that the jobs that some of these people are doing but in every one of our businesses we have that same restraint on us that we can't change a salary by such

070a large number you could do it over time you know I have about 130 employees and I'm asking for raises for less than 3% of them over 2 so we're not really nearly walking through employees in just any memories I didn't say willy nilly at all I said I realize it's a handful of employees I just said I find it difficult to give that kind of raised without promotion in any business generally it's difficult to get through particularly in the case of that my assistant she is underpaid by a significant amount I think it is reasonable given her years of service and what she does for the town she got this put together today this is the bond resolution that we're gonna suffer to get this done in six hours she left a photo of

071um she's really really really good and I think she deserves to have at least the mid which is what I'm proposing on what executive assistants captain that's what's the headcount in the Select mom's office - right - you know if you had six employees who would look like you're increasing salaries one non-union and one well two non-union Steve why does the First Amendment's our econ down I'm sorry can you speak up like the First Selectman salary has gone down from these earlier in years two percent yeah I don't think it you haven't gone down I mean I'll be other these numbers are off you think 215 see Angeles 1562 consent no you didn't go down you didn't take a pay cut [Music] no I think it's a timing issue before prior so I wasn't leave

072here oh no no no I know a distance that prior first 11 and two weeks of vacation left nes be paid it teachers in a row though Steve right it's 80 it's 89 to 45 and 60 and 15 16 and they guess is I guess it I wasn't here is that that stipend is in there that's my guess see there's no sighs I think it's rolled into the actual salary yeah see if you notice a stipend has nothing in it for those years it's in that day yeah no I know you know [Music] yes to while recognizing the amazing work [Music] and it's a little it's a little rough to go through but I mean such an increase in thinking's it's rough I think in this current budget cycle I would propose doing that over

073maybe two years so that it's a ten percent IRR to thirteen point eight seven percent increase in $10,000 oh it's 10,000 right for thirteen point eight seven percent that's it that is exactly the line to avoid which is talked about individual people salaries been kind of there's this high agree with it's painstaking because I the bucket was one person the rocket was died I know I mean you look at let's look at it from the big picture because you're doing this at the board event look at the increase at the board of the same asking for and you pretty much are comfortable where we are now with the board yet can you go back to the memory page what look at the percentage that we're asking for the town you're talking you scroll up it's

0741.8 3% is a total increase that we're asking for the downside remember salaries are most of my costs and I'm under the 2% for the budget yes I mean you can recommend time the town side and really affect my operations and my people and my staff and we've looked at this down Sean and I and John and glad you for a long time I've looked at this for three years now none of our budget minds when we Glen you went through it upside and downside right John and Sean have to there isn't a lot of fat in my budget there isn't and I don't think I'm unreasonable requests that I'm making I'm not asking to will if you go across the board and give everybody a ten percent increases I'm saying to you we have

075some employees that are incredibly good that we think should be at least at the mid of their salary levels that over the years in other towns even in the town of Brookfield people on similar levels are getting three and three and a half percent raises year after year after year in other towns they're giving their non-union employees the same raises they're giving their union employees the police last year out of two and a half percent increase CSEA cut a two and a quarter percent increase dispatchers got is two and a quarter percent increase my people got a 2% increase in the year before they got a two percent increase when the union people got more I think it's reasonable to pay these people reasonably I do and because we haven't done it for years right

076where we're finding ourselves in a little bit of playing catch-up now I know this is a really difficult year that's why we were very careful as to who we ask additional phrases you know I have one employee is making $7,000 a year less and unit employees and she's a manager I think it's reasonable to bring her up to the same level as the union employees she has more responsibility and every burden on her and she doesn't work just 35 hours a week I think that's reasonable I think the increase that were asking is very reasonable given the circumstances work it's time with Dan as I will agree with you Steve here at overall last I think is is well within life but not good I mean almost to the point where Bowl was and I

077know I was pointing out some points almost at a point where I was saying you're pretty much in line you can't get much lower than what you're asking for what we talked about was perception to the to the voters to get this budget to pass as well and in this town to unfortunately and I'm guilty of it too sometimes we focus on the negatives instead of the positives and we blow that month and the first thing that happens when we say we're going to give a ten thousand or thirteen percent favoring is that's the first in is gonna ripple through the time that we have to be strong if we're behind it that so let me be clear because who's gonna get that flag we all are I mean we all get phone calls Steve

078doping you know they would have you go in the last two days I have not got as much as you've gotten I appreciate that and that's why you're in the big chair I get my share too but I I'm more with Sean I'd rather see us staging in and get to a point and I know it's probably semantics and I understand it's pay me now pay me later but it's a perception thing and I don't think you can correct all wrongs in prior years with one right I think you gotta get to that stage now they deploy you that you're using in this example is fantastic I'm not going to lie I mean I don't feel while your employees I know this one and yes I think and that it let me be further really

079clear I think the First Selectman should have a higher pain in the seat that that chair is hit to but we can't do I agree with you on that but you can't get there from here sometimes sometimes you have to take a step approach yeah I see your point and usually I'm had a movies where they were for whatever reason or underpaid and put together a plan to get them to at least the median of their peers right in this case this person way below the median ever appears and I think it's reasonable to pay what I'm asking when I'm not asking for every employee and you've got to allow me to manage my employees how's the First Selectman and I don't go around asking for money for every single employee you know we've got

080this discussion and I had very direct conversations you did die and we've lost employees because I wouldn't pay him a salary that they demanded we've lost employees we have met the demands and they just got a marriage it happens it's that's not that's business I mean that is please it happens it happens so Steve if there's turnover in a position and you've already offered an increase when you rehire you're not locked into offering that same salary that the exit person was receiving right typically our our history has been we were pay about getting to the zip our tax assessor we were paying seventy eight thousand dollars a year when she left we had to pay ninety thousand dollars a year to get someone with the equivalent experience yep we had a typically we have data

081more okay I believe in overpaying our existing employees but that's pretty typical even in the private industry and no one's gonna change jobs for the same salary right no one's gonna cheap jobs for a five percent ratings why take the risk of that you're not gonna work in that organization right typically you want a fifteen twenty percent bump to change jobs but if we lose people you know then we have to pay more typically we have to pay not in every case but then what we're bein yeah just because what's in the market there yeah and this budget cycle I don't like the idea of going so far above to correct all of these the prize I just other people's opinions were two of six energy so kind of think I prefer more stuff as

082approach and he says true depression of that's a quick jump just disco and very good but I think approachin in general I was wondering if there's any there's a merit-based approach on pay raises it seems like we're trying to match the unions which you know trying to maximillian's we're trying to pay people reasonable salaries based on their position length of service but if everybody across the board is interesting percent if we're paying our union to the quarter yeah right now we're budgeting 2% for my employees for the third kind of a year for everyone that's not union that doesn't seem to me to be fair because my non-union employees work more hours they work weekends sometimes yeah they stay as late as say one of my union employees are going to four o'clock every single

083day no they're not otherwise I would ask to raise this for all yeah I didn't but in that case I just wonder why that's not merit they said [Music] this is for the non-union but I think you'll get a sense we aren't doing merit-based there because I'm not asking for a big increase for everybody remember municipal organization is not a private thing every salary is discoverable every salary gets discussed in Town Hall you don't think that our employees have looked at this budget and said ooh look at that look at this look at that and you figure it out to the penny who's getting what it's a colander it's just the way it is so you the idea of merit based on a pool we talked about that earlier it's been tried before in town

084and it failed miserably oh but for those employees that we think are doing an incredibly good job that improve to be loyal and capable and work really hard I think it's reasonable regardless of the year I know we're having a bad budget here but the town isn't we'd have a huge increase in the school sites you're gonna say to me because we have such a big increase in the school side we're gonna take it away from the town to get to a level I don't think that's fair if you've no no no no I'm gonna I'm gonna have to argue that point we're not taking away from the town we're questioning a ten thousand dollar pay increase of 13 percent pay increase we're not taking away from the town we're saying we're questioning the amount

085taking away would be say 2 percent across the board for everybody we are giving you some leeway to I think that's a bad choice of words so we're not taking away from the town let me ask you this question did you go through all the board dollars and decide Oh everybody's getting this Mathis Mathis and now you say well guys you know what we don't have next say we don't have that say I could say cut a hundred miles about a salary so you could look at all of those things in their budget and say I think this is more reason to do what you want with schools but I think this increase is more reasonable how many are your employees our Union and how many employees are not Union about 70/30 there you sure

086about that 20 you take out through these Department take up the police department go non-union salaries versus Union salaries what's the ratio [Music] season 34 people three I think the salaries are four five nine Union and union if you take out the police unit do the best for me do the math before me I'd like to see it you know most of my plays okay so is there wage savings anywhere else I'm sorry a certain weight if you have wage savings anywhere else for example Parks and Rec position opened up there yeah we probably will we probably will but we're budgeting for the similar salary at the moment right now it's at the same salary that the director of Parks and Rec dan are you doing it and we're pretty close to making a decision

087there but I don't want to discuss that salary in public right now when the process of hiring somebody kind of finish that in the next week or so I want to go baby salaries here for a minute let's go back collects ear and cheek and answers on the board of that site on salaries how many of her salaries are not contract related Union because I know the principle has principles heaven Union I know the Paris haven't Union how many positions are we talking about what's a handful nine twenty twelve people 20 people we have no control on managing those pay raises they are what they are what they are the union's negotiate them and unions have been involved with private sector in years so and the Union everybody gets the same and that's what I

088think Eileen was that looting to ISM we start our baseline almost at the union ring of and then we add to it we don't start a percentage below the Union rate and say if you're not performing at a certain level you're going to get one percent so you're going to get lower than in Union and then my higher performers are going to get a Union rates and we're starting at Union just below you generate I mean the you're saying two percent I know the Paris was two point three the nurses was 2.0 the Union prior year I'm saying prior year 2.0 teachers average one two eight three four years something like that I'm not sure all I'm saying is we're starting at at our base level of pay raises yes you're comparing that the BOE

089gets more money and we're not looking through some we can't look at their salaries we go look at fifty nine possibly but I'm saying this the Union we're just below the Union pay raises on your baseline increase your standard whitewash increase and now when you go above that is where we're having this issue of absorbing the higher increases [Music] my point is our baseline 2% is almost union wages you're making the argument that we're below union wages we're below Union raises your baseline everybody gets two percent is pretty much like the Union it's a quarter percent under 22 a half percent under ordered over 10 years you're talking about a lotta money how much money am I talking about am i talking about $10,000 on a seventy two thousand dollar pair is enough I multiply

090it out I don't want to have to read it you know I've asked you guys and I and I think I've made a very good case for the salary increases that I want the total increase over two percent for my staff it's just about twenty thousand dollars I like I can't get sent you the information not only fanzine I can't be I lifted a mountain I know that but it can't be happy you did but I mean we've got ten thousand on there let's go right through here it goes down to ten thousand town clerk there are 13,000 with the first two positions so the last five positions are above tip I'm saying oh and the two percent yes I apologize yes it's just about 20 times I said you know no you're right I

091apologize you're right because then you would be - in the 2% out of that number we're getting it so I think it's fair to say okay we're gonna give everybody 2% why don't we look people to give over that 2% that's I think they're a fair comparison the total value Union wage increase approximate system that's the I'm sorry say again total not even anyways I painted a business right including the good that the 2% increase plus the overage of the over 2% into that $60,000 everybody so who said that 16 reviews of 15 wife [Music] Coquina pirate that way where you decide rather than 20,000 over two percent for those positions [Music] we say there's a reasonable time if you do it it how you see this otherwise we're gonna look line by line and

092we're gonna have the same argument because I have different opinions about different positions anything okay so then let's do a line by line to just do it by two different positions right why not if you have different opinions we do it right Steve yes on the assistant salary if you did take this jump would you be able to keep it stable next year okay okay or do you need to apply another increase next yeah it's hard for certain low lower middle in terms of managing your employee I'm saying would you be able to keep it set for next year you know people who have given raises two before over the percentage I haven't given him another 5,000 or 6,000 or 10,000 they've gotten 2% the next year no need Steve did hold to that that

093happened it fair to Steve and and a couple raises he gave last year he did not compound the raise this year I went to a 2% you know you turned something I mean and I'm gonna play devil's advocate in its for discussion is if we went to call it and said Collette you we're giving your superintendent at 13 percent pay raise would we say something on our site to the 13 percent pay raise to the superintendent you can't he's on contract no I'm just saying I isn't it as an example would we say something about that good yes so we're doing the same thing in Reverse here so what you're doing is what I'm saying you have the right to do that I just think I've made a very good argument for those people that

094I've asked for credit for you additional increases and you know what I'll give you the tax account clerk right I see your point somebody new to the job I'm asking to get her up typical town clerk's make 85 to 90 in our area right I'd like to move that salary up into so remember we're looking long term if we have jobs especially an elected position that pays reasonable salary we'll get really good people if Andrea ever decides to leave sometimes you won't get people to run for these jobs because they don't [Music] I agree with you it was uh it was known for arcing discussion I agree with that but I think spurred by that line I agree I agree with that but I think we know who's been in our wheels on that I

095think so we're getting a lot of a - I just wanted to make one more point if I may before we do that I think that a person's longevity in the position is very important and I think that is that does require out-of-the-box recognition on this on the flip side I think the person very new in the drum deserves some encouragement for doing a very good job but I think there we need to be more cautious because they're so new viewpoint I accept that logic as well I just I just do I think there's a wrong Steve yes okay they've kind of know a lot but to correct the wrong in one swoop I just I have difficulties I think it should be stepped that's just my opinion I'm 106 that's all 106 so I'm

096ready to vote I don't know how to volapük 20,600 8 was the information we got from Steve above the 2% [Music] 20 million dollars I heard and understood all right so now I hear the argument Steve but perhaps on those if you were looking for 20600 here we compare that down to ten thousand three hundred you can do that program and then a based on the department's that you have these in or not yeah I mean that's that's just an idea I think too there's I think five departments here right and that way you take you take a stepped approach where put that in next year and for those folks who are those positions would we look at that again in a favorable light would anyone like to entertain that discussion how'd you come up

097with the number tap for the email that's half it's added up cut it in half I mean there's no indication for the email that we got what the increase above 2% was one could be 10% one could be thoughts here they're going right food I know all right Oh tell some are cool yeah yeah yeah back out to 2% you're at the number but I mean those are easily tied to the department [Music] I don't see another fair and equitable way to do that versus those folks are still getting the standard and then some if they grew that and I would encourage Stephens manager to the I think the guidance of longevity into account when applying the country three months purses thank you [Music] for instance I was thinking that because I mean the amounts

098are doled out that it would just be a pro-rata v like 50% you know I know but yeah I'd rather him see fit how he wants to allocate that because if he thinks that there's more deserving than work that's his you know he could I feel like that's um it's him to manage that but I agree that [Music] I I wouldn't agree that half would make sense because I think there's proportional raises that he needs to apply for people you know in different situations so I don't think that makes sense do you have something to countenance or to counter with for that you know another way they've decided that we are all voters [Music] without seeing what the 2% increase actually is the to percents built that already ya know said this is top of

099and so with $20,600 there's budget that's above the standard look for this one in threes and four going down 270 bill but you could leave it at the 17 in any loose for the salaries accordingly yeah I think half of 20 is is a big trout them with a number that do you think is a reasonable number well then still everybody getting to percent and then in addition to that is may 2 percent plus that addition additional 10 3 to allocate Steve if you if you did 2/3 this year and push the other third of the of the total balance so next year does that make sense but that hell I'd be happier Sean's yeah I think cutting it to ten is cutting too close among the number of people that is targeted for exceptional

100performance it's not all about performance though some of this is getting people to market and as you're not thinking about perform yes yeah well for both reasons for both reasons it's I think it's too many people involved to cut it 50 which I disagree with you but I have no desire to bring somebody up to even the mid if they're not a great performer I've had employees come to me and ask me for raises and I've said no I hear these this is also performance-based the amount of the increase is to get them towards the middle of their range all right last time but this I got another question that asked and then write them about is are we when we dictate salaries and we do this is the Tao cloud to use that towards

101a salary [Music] about remember I can't move money from one department to another yes I did agents I decided not to use these the salary increases I could put him in the continuing education like okay you want to select me yeah I can't do the personal so if we were to give ten three on this extra and say you know what we get to did that his budget you can go to where you want to go you got to live within your budget but the line items are dictated right and it's my department so he would have to transfer living in those departments I'm sure there's a devalue 8000 within that which would be the value opinion but the by Department request it would be I see your point doing I see this until you

102get into a problem by line item if let's say you give me either amount right I'm going to have to allocate that it probably would have to come back to you because we were moving when you put it in one line item right and then I would come back to you too a little bit I mean during this week or after your budget a budget is final it's that a big hassle to do that no it's a request supporters like that makes it requested Ward finance the new this from this line to this line to this line that is like to reduce office or travel and continuing education and put it into a solid yeah all right so with that in mind why don't we continue going through this and we'll all have a think

103on how we want to handle salaries and come back to it okay Thursday still here so anything else for the selected office [Music] and keep in mind because there is an argument or a argument for or against this is still this is still our budget boat okay this is still our budget too go through this is no different than another department coming in the fire department stating their case keep that in mind please Town Clerk office do you get the proposed increase 21:03 so you know I mean wall a little bit up little bit up [Music] 21000 1:07 t9r 7.6 9% anything to go through I'm there [Music] it's just gonna be so picking you and I'm a lot of these things that's in you well I don't need to be the home where next

104encounter I'll help be really honest wit chip I feel strongly if you feel struggling about the the travel the travels only up $75 here however it's the the taking out dollars the point of the matter was that it was budgeted based on prior year without a need for the funding that was in the prior year so that was the point anyone feels strongly about that we can chat about it if not like in London like I can move on I mean I just brought it up as a notation petition to say that this is how we get to some places where we go good money wise not travel wise I'm just saying these are the areas that typically grow and have less management over it because it's such a small number and it's accepted and

105it just goes and it gets lost in the sauce again I don't handle this part of the budget cuz Steve is right in his own way and he's asking for one whatever percent increase overall so what are we really gonna pull out of this thing I'm up for suggestions but I mean we could pull out 300 here for on it there [Music] what is it really my exercise department by department I would say we see something gross we bring it out if not we Dan yeah Ricki Lisa yeah then department by department anything in a department then huh I mean we've already identified the salary lines that we think we need to do something we're gonna have to think about it and then I think anything gross that we see I think with the town

106clerk specifically were and raised in a new position and if they're looking to restructure I think we kind of need to get you know but see how it falls out this year because if responsibilities are changing and training is increasing that kind of isn't the do so maybe that's just something to consider for this year and then have our harder look at it next year when we see how it seems but that is one of the only positions yeah that I will agree that we have to look at something like that only from the fact that it's not a hired position it's an elected position yeah so yeah you know I it's not like the person gets hired to fill the position yeah and they get serious and then we got to train them to

107do their job I think in this case it's a little bit different aspect but the other positions if we hire someone to do a job we should pay their training to do the job we should be hiring them to fill the position alright there's nothing on town-clerk registrars 2700 our inquiries 2.5% the bulk of which is the election expensive and also this year we think we're going to have a primary we're going down a little bit for the governors races yeah with so many candidates it's our guests so we've got a little American how many do we have built in there one right there and how many referendums it was specified yeah three right yeah what three are we have we found budget town budget school schools know the November budget in the primary I

108thought there was a thought something was mentioned for protection remember election that budget budgets next year that's right Miranda you have a reference but no that's it who will probably have a referendum for the schools yeah we may not make it by Election Day that's a doctor I'm sorry if I keep on thinking we're having that on an election but every year and every year though you have we have a budget referendum oh yeah right yeah maybe year a budget referendum I want at least one election in November and impossible primaries and any other referendums this year we think we're going to happen three yeah we can get it to November they'll save ourselves suddenly if Caleta some nodding at me that we can make it by November what's wrong schools so that's critical we've

109got them into that before it's got to go for planning and zoning that's the next one on there to 2.09 an increase for 5,800 primary driver their salaries 2% of peace you'll love this one land use building it's going to take a lot of discussion it's up $39 or 0.0 0.0 and technical support is going down it's not as straightforward as you may think next one in fire marshal that's going up by about 80 800 or a 7% primary driver the part-time wages does anyone need a refresher and what that was for now burgers gonna be offset by the fees revenue side so that's really a wash I think that we're doing this we're doing these feeds you've got to produce more paperwork you're gonna have more supplies you're just gonna have this just compounds

110they also need remember the code books and some equipment it's a technical support I think was the permian yeah the technical support went up a lot and I was yeah I don't know what that was about technical supplies books that was in the presentation was new code books oh yeah yeah okay sorry I was the videos and technical surprising so yeah now these are the one offs yes was a one-time get us up to to speed I lost this is a next year we shouldn't see that extent next me you see someone on it next up health the health department there fifty two hundred or two point two two percent primary driver main account wages Community Development 15:38 increased 1.5% primary driver wages for comfort tyrella superset the wage increase there the Beast of the

111mall conservation take solace in the fact that there's no stray data what do these what are their projects that they're this is my merrily working Karski oh and Bing Bing Gorski gotcha right and we're locked into that yeah get your federal grants yeah we don't have a say in that exactly we have we were showing their progress that yeah we're gonna otherwise they're gonna next up the historical district that's actually a $260 decrease their time Kirksey Commissioner stays flat the assessor's office that's an increase of 8,500 about for around 3% primary driver there being total wages but was the it's not unreasonable what was the overtime driver on that Steve on the tax assessor's we have during the summer we have a period where they have to update all the records so we hire temporary

112help come in and do so it's not really over time it's temporary help yes I'll be better I know the terminology and keep the accounts lined up and did you probably be more seasonal worker because it's really not over I feel strongly about rearranging those lines I'd let it ride cuz it's all part of total wages yeah tech clothes tax collector's office actually has a seasonal part-time you know outline item so might be something to be consistent that me yes you should switch them yeah I agree with Darlene on that don't you yeah I agree with that lien if it's truly seasonable and you've seen it to have the answer right away and then if it's truly a seasonal you change them then it get me trapped so we feel strongly for having the update

113next year that when we arrange something this year so it's budgeted recorded properly I'd like to see if this year done so we can our goal is to get tighter oversight not oversight but to be able to trend attract it he's changing County it's a process to change in honor you can change some sponge and continue to track oh yeah yeah because if you know this what it is when you're not here oh yeah you were right once than see one here right just how about here Shawn's not here wherever the old board changes in a year I know it can't but change in the air that's what's gonna be in early does that formula pick up the five in Australia 222 definitely up to five I was up there that kind of yeah carry

114that sucker over to the left let's teach my sound [Music] water all those in favor of moving that line item to make it that are trackable xti and any decision no this is almost to the team [Music] and then we give you any as a cover-up tax collector one said I want increase or a renovated 410 apartment the controller with an increase in it I waited - secretary the Autobahn eliminating on all the positions that I have time Oh [Music] secretary secretary and I proposed when I told the discussion yes actually the actual canyon right to set up we don't have we have a rely on the number in there right so while I figure out what that is as reliable in underfoot because it's an option that will fail and our so that was

115when I thought it was nasty you know last year [Music] okay let's assume an attack is like right back on the ribbon there all those either team secretary stuff but please make even that was well I mean increased super sand and Sun so there are a lot of process all right move on to a lot of fees and leave in a prior year was poor Washington was a little finance portion forward ahead WETA and I believe it was a so it is 25 the PCA 7609 bill was 69 thousand for there goes the this is lacy and then we've got about 6080 so if there are no or less actual time spent next year yes again if you're running the WEC the 11 cynics remove that extra filling sinking that then you should it be

116between the Board of Ed and us we should be expelled right leaving 11 6 out there on our side if we use that for extra counts when it every day and decide when you want to die and it's a miniature it be your distraction you know our thing Bureau Federation does it authorized we reduce it down by 2025 from the world ahead the extra building right equivalent to Carl Ross for the with everyday let's do is process because we need the base which I don't think you spend how much okay with that you know it was just better than what we get the great job really this is odd so 35 [Music] since I got I have what I said okay 68 degrees because women act quite a bit you Economic Development [Music] the recording

117secretary and [Music] I agree Oh [Music] next is personnel this is where we have our personalities I forgot I was wondering anyone was there anything it's primary driver is not equated just said Chris the next lemon I see my tailor actually want to do last set out an increase offset by sought offerings and in there it is Town Council and convinces 80,000 increases legal fees No yeah higher that's our nose so we have heels even though we have order in place and we use what this is a what it is it's monthly so he is 60,000 baseline users or [Music] after three years [Music] yes all right the know is listening to this schedule's happening we may not understand that to waiting an hour how to do glasses but just know there's a lot of

118people that aren't aware is that it was totally weird to wait an hour what is your can control your employees when I think it's right so let me be clear I'm a firm believer in this office so you have a procedure that people do before they go to be a shooting are you prepared you know that every email every phone calls this is a do you have a procedure for approxiately so before when you go over to be sure that it is a concise we have you know everyone is pretty good at a three-minute video recalling the public that's what I said I mean I agree I'll serve it so it does that that has didn't I lo and minikin in years it's trying to trying to generate streebek 1.5 percent increase overall overall but

119if we take the free ride with actual it was it's a diamond ring yes Bobo getting this is sitting quite a bit of the agent so I know nobody's touching that sort of services [Music] especially that's our Center focus enemies are I'm gonna try over there the way just Falls I'm eating good yeah it'd be kind of me yeah parks recreation any grease or hours the studio I don't think we've got the detail their program an external system they do the gross numbers reviews because all the money comes over to us and we deposited but the detail is on their system I think it's important that we you always take a look at that because they are maintaining half a million dollars so that's that's pretty important that we have a handle on what's in

120there next uptown grounds let's see here up five point five point five percent or about 35,000 primary driver there be maintenance questions on that I remember I think we covered that but I would say explanation I think part of it was a contract that the contract had gone up for the services that they use right they got increases in our contract in us and has still everyone and the primary trying to do the maintenance is the twenty thousand dollars a year two of the bridges see you tomorrow so you take that out Jimmy Pelton further discussion on that the Arts Commission they'll increase their discussion there public safety police department the lengthier budget their 4.25 percent increase or 180 185,000 primary drivers there of course wages and remember we gross up to 46,000 it's actually

121going to be $1,000 after we get the grants which is in the revenues you traffic service grants there that's a big-budget driver a second highest number there is that him anything else to go through on the police Center Fire Department maintain a budget offline and always see here is their net expenditures three hundred twenty five thousand five hundred ninety they have an increase of nine point nine point eight thousand twenty-nine many hundred or about three percent any questions or comments on that EMS there's a increase of four point seven nine percent or about forty thousand related to volunteer they're Candlewood Fire Department again same story as the center fire department as far as the numbers that we're seeing $31 increase or 2% why isn't listed under Homeland Security yeah this started after 9/11 and we

122had left we had no money in there last year we're talking to Jay Jay's come back barriers spending we wanted to I'm sorry my eyes are off so a civil defense Homeland Security they're expensive five thousand dollars their question apparently didn't budget anything last year because they were crandolfs and whatnot five dollars discussion public works this one here we do have a net decrease of 5,600 I do want to remind the group that's something that we discussed last night as part of our capital was we removed the doctor truck from capital the understanding that they could spend about four or five thousand dollars to prepare that and get at least another year out of it was it was it clear Steve that and their maintenance equipment that they could cover that there would that pain

123additional yeah pathetically three four five thousand and you might be best at everything no they can't cover in there what line-item with that going to it obviously but we were talking about fifty cleared a correction to this right is anyone recall like maintance practicing is there twice yeah but maintenance roads I think I actually harbors that activity and the 150th and is a maintenance equipment but that's correct we couldn't is the means to quit so if we put 150 for 150 points so but he do you mind going up or down here because we should have some maintenance equipment online I rode through 74 you could control C B to 74 and C to 74 dancing and take that maintenance equipment or 275 sûreté then paste that over I think we did this during the

124presentation but that's an old version and you could put that over 311 b12 we added that extra line all right yeah which means they got it okay yeah all right so carry over from last night I'm adding the $5,000 to maintenance equipment any further discussion on that all those in favor of adding the 5,000 to the equipment maintenance line and keep us a night okay okay six Oh but as the note some jellybeans okay so that's got a flow through there because are you over here change this has taken off the horse up in Budget Act I can it just about support violence I was the only yeah we have we've made two minor changes they oughta took down by 25 so we're at I think that change of 20,000 down all right if there's

125nothing further public works and go to town buildings there's an increase of 18.61 percent about 65,000 primary driver their wages any discussion on that town utilities 10.10 point eight percent increase for about seventy two and a half thousand dollars primary driver of that vehicle fuel and a close second electric in the left or any Cadogan for for this year and that's about three thousand they're still being a assist you requested why we have the one though is the strategic any further discussion on ten utilities Steve said he's going to come back with more actuals for prior years we should probably flag so you ever come back to that just something on their yellow some recycling up twenty thousand one hundred dollars or fifty two percent believe that was the additional hazardous waste day I'm sorry

126the recycling games yeah electronic waste questions on that all right Public Library next order of business and the stave can you just refresh us on what here or what the Board of Selectmen proposed reduction was was if there was a reduction or new entry positions yeah the library of this before positions in total new positions on Park Lane I thought it was three new three positions in one increase mr. Hecuba pretending they only there ten hours a week for the assistant to the librarian the Board of Selectmen agreed to do the increased hours for the assistant so if the librarian can do more library and stuff that was after keeping and one of the three assistants that they're requesting new assistant librarians they thought that was reasonable I think they're I think they're understand you

127know if we look at their report you can see we clearly along with any of those guys but I don't give him this legend I don't think we can move it up look at it each year plus they have space constraints to for their employees awesome yeah in the library at so much space constraints although they are crammed in there it's actual support constraints and I've seen it where librarians are over checking books out but okay simply check books out who could doing research or helping people find the right books I thought it was a very reasonable thing to do I just didn't think we could afford to three people and pretty much the rest of the budget elasticity any further discussion of that any and proposals what was the total joke 40 75 they

128totally increased 47,000 for any time thank you I mean that that adds 10 hours to one person and three additional assistance no oh that reads one out of the three and they can choose which one you know they know what yeah being that as part-time and I think there's a lot of value added for the amount of salary that they would be providing I would consider adding it to of the three requested part-timers an increase in the hours I'd be curious what others thoughts are but without knowing exactly which which position or positions if we added a second one I mean I'm very biased I would love to see the children's librarian in there you know along with the assistant but if if no guarantees can be made or assertions because it was made certain

129under no uncertain terms that it's at their discretion so if there's no guarantees then I think I support where it landed for this year and how much of the one or the other what will the increase bathe by adding anymore this is a twenty two twenty three thousand dollars about the same I think yeah can we meet in the middle we're talking about compromises and things so can we meet time and a half for that thing people feel more comfortable I'm just throwing out like we all agree I mean whether how we got to this point of the need of the staffing requirements I think we all do with a understand yes okay I mean I know got through it through a roundabout way that needs to be set aside and dealt with the real

130thing are they understaffed and how do we deal with the understaffing so you jump in I think Steve did that I think you know there's there was three plus additional and he's airing one plus additional it's a little less than half of the requests in the first year I think he did a good job yes I mean Eileen do you think there should be a little more I could see it I just thought well yeah I know that the discussions in Butte has to bend the therapist issues with not having enough staff available and potentially having to close the library on certain days and it is a very huge resource in town I just don't want to see that type of thing happening no no but they've had to reduce hours because of not having

131enough staff available and I think as long as we're if we agree to your proposal that were still open the next year we revisit absolutely we can't just say that that's enough a great option [Music] put that in the notes to this exactly what was and what was left in we should specifically know one part timer position plus additional hours included left [Music] there's a commitment to released a vibration to revisit visit two positions not data this year does anyone have any pointed questions before it's nice McIlvain [Music] so initial is in there just one hour pretty revisit it's too early because it here and I'll visit married we agreed they are understaffed that's not the problem yes there's no changes to select my budget public debt questions comments or concerns on this one things

132are corrected also I reviewed all the documentation that supports these numbers and uncomfortable so our town treasurer corks popping the controller in public that was it there's a section in my binder and the last one there any questions there regional services a decrease there about 12 and a half thousand questions comments concerns there the next one employee benefits increase of two hundred thirty two thousand or five point one nine percent the primary driver there is the Medicare supplement and health insurance offset by decrease in life insurance any questions or commentary to add there so we think that this health insurance numbers a little closer I know that this year there is the $90,000 okay yes you know we go Basinger yeah our actuarial arkansas tells us the exact here's your other ways here's how many

133marriages any single and this is your number so yeah we're comfortable with it I think her the awesome change weather review the prelim a lot a committee review of the capper or a very strong fun position great great that could be a busy one container yeah liability insurance October 14 14700 6 or an increase of 227 - driver and their workers comp other expenditures we have miscellaneous decreased there primarily attributable to the fact that the general contingency as if right now we brought that down three hundred two thousand as compared to last year or as compared to the selectmen budget also have increase in capital improvements of 15,000 questions comments and concerns this ladies all right so we've taken a prelim passiveness is anyone in favor of taking a five-minute recess like they do in

134that recess it's just a spreadsheet integrity get our formulas right bio brain make sure that we understand where we are I need to comment that's all right so well it's it could lead to a broader discussion so that's side so my comment is that this was a very good bottoms up budget discussion and I think it's probably a good idea to also do a top-down one similar to what the Board of Selectmen did with the Board of Ed where looked at the bottoms up said it was all everything's justified in decent shape however the total number is probably a little high both from an optics standpoint and from a total standpoint we'd like to take a little bit out to make the number more attractive that's what the Board of Selectmen did the Board of

135Ed we adjusted that is our job to do to consider the same thing to the board selectmen budget in general so my thought is that is two point is this is about two point seven five is that we're at is two point five a more attractive passable number is taking seventy-five thousand chopping it off and saying go find it the right thing to do so that works so that the Board of Selectmen budget is a 2.5 percent is that where it is already I won't accept already 1.7 where it was good all right well no no because we be chapter continued ceiling but are you including capital projects financing I know you're just talking about the 1.72 of 2016 all right so I'm with Dan I think we fund a bunch of peace males we've

136gone through it I think we got to look at so the night so that I'm Way off on the top down I need to review that but if my concept still stands yeah you know way I mean I threw out a number that was there's a lot of numbers of yeah yes so let's not and this was this was are just like we did you know on last night of capital this was our first run-through we flag things you know there's obviously a gorilla that we want to address so yeah I mean we're by no means I gotta look it looks with your whole number yeah you're right at the end when we go through our run-through we all look at the whole number and say is this something to live with yes one of

137the things I think I don't think is on here in the police grant we have a forty six thousand expense well we have a forty five thousand grand we want to make sure that's in here yeah I didn't see it anymore I think it should be in the revenue somewhere or move that grant line down to the 1062 I think I've done I felt I had that J said final cost would be pretty attractive serious grants traffic sir remember we put the whole expense into forty six thousand someone yeah there's an offset order five thousand coming back so we should put that in for miscellaneous income yeah we got of revenue forty this should go miscellaneous revenue yeah I wanna my favorite seven five was including the cash travel there's are the two points industry

138in the 1.7 the 2.7 yeah yeah we got agree with you definitely when we get to that point you got to look at the what you baked right yep that's all I got a look what you baked tip so I agree with it okay that was nice so we know you care right okay if you look at just a town in the capital projects right - 25 % like based on what something all right okay let's go to break all right all right yeah take about five minute break starting now [Music] romance on more like studies job and we are back from our brief intermission I do want to go back to that revenue tab there as we were discussing earlier this evening we went through the the police the expenditures there was traffic service

139item on there and we had as Steve mentioned we had grossed it up and the intent was to leave in the budget a net about $1,500 and that chief Purcell said would be our exposure so when when we put when we gross up the expense at that time we didn't go back and put in the revenue so if you scroll down here initially noose income okay right there that's 67 if you click in that cell that includes now that 25,000 that we had in there and now it includes the value of the grant revenue that we should get or that we're expecting to get of forty two thousand five hundred thirty-seven is there any any discussion on that all those in favor of adding that grant revenue to the miscellaneous income indicate by saying aye

140so the addition of that grant revenue carries six Oh due to the 25 25,000 was for still have any notes Oh the the sale the vehicle [Music] and the 43 I take grant revenue traffic yeah grant revenue traffic service grant revenue jellybeans imagine tomorrow that's well don't eat it there okay and now as a result of our deliberations but not final discussion Ricky if you don't mind ordinal rate Tampa so where we are now without further discussion including the updates that we've made thus far this is where we stand the the Board of Finance budget according to last year's or the budget cycle that word right now obviously the biggest percent change is the decrease in that contingency so much now if we are ready to explore Dan's ideas I would like to first answer

141any questions anyone has or any comments and what we're looking at here then we could move into a further discussion according to it okay so does anyone have any any questions or need additional explanation on this page I do have a question and that has to do with where on this page the cash portion of the capital budget cap shows X financing okay that's the one three five one one three five one oh wait oh so I'm looking at the capital funding page but I didn't update it for right so I'm so okay so it could go to the expenditure gap just - yep so like down to line 390 or something Capital Improvements that number should go through yep it doesn't right okay so that so now go back to the mill rated page

142so when we're looking at talent in my mind we're looking at the town cash budget operations budget for the year it's a combination of the 18 7:03 10 operations plus the 1 3 5 1 capital projects that's the way I think I know it's but that's the way and that kind so so can you total those two up okay 2.1 okay oh yeah very good okay that's exactly what I'm looking for so so that top bad combination is a two point one five percent increase over what those two pieces were last year which is different than the two seventy-five I had in my head I know that's you know no I know I just build in increase weight but right okay and for the sake of discussion and deliberation I don't want to hold things

143sacred so it was an idea that we have yep so my concept my thought was you know just just to bring up for discussion you know is that an increase that is acceptable that is justifiable on a high level basis so we did it all we did it piece by piece and now that we're looking at as line points out the almost finished cake is that a number that works for the sport to two percent to consider general just the general operations the reason any company that's to me that seems to me that seems fairly reasonable I mean I would be concerned if on the town side it was 5% or crazy dad absolutely you know school is obviously there's different circumstances there things that are out of control we've seen a lot of decreases

144in the budget as well as some increases but then we went through line by line and it be we've been nitpicking maybe luchador squeeze out but two grand if we take out 500 here 200 here maybe okay I think for the services we get in the town of two point one five percent increase on the town side is not not in control now we have the ultimate auditors as they're the voters in the town and I think that for us to scrape it just might pay that's just scrape out the 10,000 15,000 or 20,000 that maybe we can scrape painstakingly out of this is it a true exercise or I don't think I'm with Ricky I don't think 2.45 and we forced the hundred thousand mm-hmm right because of our policy you know that we're

145sticking to that's not added Steve's control I mean it is but it is and I mean he's following the guidelines is that really a huge increase can I bring up one more point this is still factoring in the full 20600 of wages above the few percent so Breyers think that's correct it's yep that's a good point when you really look at it of the so if you take a year on year what were ya what's the increase from back to that the 1863 four to 1895 four point seven - no a dollar-wise 320 they say 100,000 of it's enforced to give increase well yeah I know it's not the next line yeah yeah I agree yeah I'm not argument I think it's I brought up for discussion area I'm gonna see the numbers I'm in

146agreement with you guys so yes on the capital project slide on the 135 compared to the prior up a hundred seven hundred that's forced yep so it's really only a seven thousand increase from prior year right absolute numbers yes mm-hmm yeah it's hard to argue it really has a five really is what are we really gonna move that needle yep yeah I mean I'm okay with fine-tuning it a little bit but I mean to the point of I think it's almost at a point could be the voters voters decide I wanted I wanted to have this discussion and look at that number and I'm fine with the number if the voters think it's too much then we have to have this harder decision harder choice I mean very good everybody else's and then in here

147also is ruled in the education stuff that we talked about right is that rolled into this rolled into it how I don't know I'm asking that question you're the smaller guy no it's not the the reduction of 180,000 is essentially it's represented in these numbers because the seventy-nine thousand and the 16,000 they're not right so they come on the revenue side of the Board of Ed side they come in on the back side of the board of that revenue like the grant like the special ed grant they offset the cost I mean I'm not certain the technical representation we should make on that but it's it's offsetting the expenditures yes yes so technically what we're looking at is a four point one one percent increase of expenditures give me the state we made we're using

148the voice numbers and the special ed costs right so I know the big number the the 4.11 is our expenditures now go to the mill rate increase because that's not some correlating that would correct and I'll let you smart guys explain that one so the actual and John's very good at this is like a rock star the values of the mill rate right the proposed mill rate would go up from seven twenty seven point two nine to twenty eight point eight three are you able to engage yeah because we're only going up 4.11 on the expenditure side you have that yeah so you have that yeah that an elderly tax relief that we haven't done anything like a proposal from they say approval from the Board of Selectmen yep what our selections budget didn't I'd

149revenues to expenditures to yours yeah we can't go up if we went down we're balanced yeah you are maybe you maybe it's with some tweaking there were there was something thank him Oh silence there his the Board of Selectmen budgets 3.94 how do we get the four point one one he's not look the revenues don't balance with the expenditures you got it back into for the amount of money you're saying you but overall numbers I think you were makes more sense now yeah that's that's yep I made him accountable yeah so essentially it's a five point six four percent increase can you explain this the elderly tax relief last year altogether we looked at this we thought we were double counting it because there was not only tax or any in the budget it wasn't

150the same okay so what you have to do is determine all of your taxes you're needed revenue then you take them off that amount yep and it changes the end risks like this and this state mandated okay and what was proposed then by the Board of Selectmen was a little glitchy mechanically it was actually proposed by the Board of Selectmen was a low rate of 28.87 and when the Board of Finance has it in front of us now for the male rate of 28 point 83 we just last time about the selectmen proposal let's just make a point to scrub this harder next time okay [Music] I mean now you go back to the question the day a nest know yeah earlier is 5.64 palatable increase and how much is it per percentage now like

151if we wanted to move that needle 0.5% now but okay so the mill rate what we have in front of us the mill rate goes up to one point five four yeah now what does that work out - okay so leverage Joe what I did was I took the new mill rate of twenty eight point eight three and subtracted the old mill rate of twenty seven point two nine to come up with the same change that you guys have the increase in mill rate of one point five four so if you wanted to know a high level how that would equate to an increase in property taxes so using an assessed value of 270,000 dollars multiplied times zero point zero zero one five four you come up with a tax increase of $415 so I

152think you know if you wanted to know some real world information about how property taxes would be impacted but that's on an assessed and as soon as s value of 375 what I did to under set to assess me so the magic number is point zero zero one five I'm sorry wait yeah point zero zero one five four so that is your multiplier times your sss value yep do we know what the [Music] estimate yep 415 you Center 451 415 actual taxes bed so at the new so the old mill rate was seven thousand 368 the Nimmo rate would be seven thousand seven eighty four point zero zero one five four which you kind of already have into your spreadsheet so you just gotta and it's the same thing comes up at the five point

153six and that's the average home state well that's just a number I got just another barbecue remember I took as an assessed no I think our average price is between 350 okay I think the average I don't know that for a fact oh okay so the 415 seems in line with what's happened in previous years I've never had this what idea what I put on the bottom next are the bottom two cells right there mm-hmm is the increase from I would have to scroll up a little button eyes from 1677 yeah yeah yeah sorry double direct crease deep what is you gotta eat down there right go down to this Matheny almost doubled right so from for a date what's our top sorry so we're talking from from the 15 16 to 16 17 years

154we went up 0.71 from 16 17 - 17 18 we went up 5.8 so the proposal from 17 18 - 18 19 is 1.5 force and that not quite doable but yeah I mean I think and we were talking about this earlier I think for what we get as residents and taxpayers here currently is one hell of a deal and I think we've had we I think we've had it good for a very long time and it's my opinion only I'm not going to speak to the rest of the board members then I think you know a lot of this might be putting in some Corrections from the past you know we know that some folks are underpaid we have an unfortunate pickup them special ed you know but you're dropping grants a dropping I'm

155sure the Dryden is closed at the same yeah where we're putting in or we're trying to go back to less bonding more more cash payments for things so I'm of the opinion that this is a bit of a correction would I expect this to continue in the future no absolutely not unless we have more on foreseen circumstances but no one has a crystal ball you know I don't think collect could either I mosey on up to the table and suit we're gonna have another giant increase in special ed you know everybody just collect the evil eye you know yeah we have almost perfect storm of problems here yeah better hating us together it was just special that one year we'd still be a very reasonable it was just the state grant cuts we'd still probably

156have pretty reasonable to choose a gather really especially we've got to pay up we don't have a choice the grants we don't have control of those does anyone else have any thoughts on what's going on here before we and you know at our discretion it is almost ten fifteen before we explore any changes I'd like to go down that route I'd like to see a number that would move the needle a percentage or whatever take the things so in other words what what's it gonna take to get it from 4.1 one down to three nine say you're like are we look what kind of a number are we look at that because it if it's a huge number it's not let's talk about expenditures if we were to drop a hundred thousand in expenditures what's

157it gonna do what's its sensitivity that's a sensitivity that's do it so for you know just a built I think you can increase its range on you an increase in expenditures are technically balanced with an increase in taxes so if you just up your taxes by a hundred thousand that you'll see the way the way that this is a bill yeah you don't if you if you change the revenue if you change the expense when it doesn't automatically flow through the way this is built so you'd have to just change your revenue your taxes because if you look that is estimated tax receipts on row 38 is what's driving that milk out so it's just the mechanics of this spreadsheet that's all yeah I just want to add a honey or 100,000 and see what

158it does the text yeah he's gonna add it here but it's gonna reduce that okay to see what that is I mean you really got to get the real number so now you're talking to make this thing change it you're talking drastic yeah yes you know the job what is that equation so 1.5 1.5 what what change in the tax dollar doesn't mean it's like the tax and I think the other thing we need to keep in mind is you know when we've had these discussions no earlier on about up coming up big capital projects and you know this move for our capital funding to have more of an out of cash instead of bonding is to prepare us for the things that we know are inevitable or the the school's the vibrated police station

159so I think people need we need to remind yeah and we need we we can't avoid it I mean it has to happen that these projects will yes really pay more for cash I agree I mean if you took out the whole town increase yep it doesn't move the whole pound increase yeah and then to Dan's point the school is really I understand and I know I'm a big proponent of cutting things down is ninety two thousand dollars of which we're already saying we're gonna try to reduce some of that so there's not there's nothing but yeah yeah where's the ID - that was the danger to us with a number aborting hey I could have been wrong I thought it was about 90 - yeah you said it the actual dollar amount that's going

160to increase services enhance again I'm having a boy I don't know if we do more tonight you think about it and you come back we've gone through a lot Sean of numbers I mean the realistic point is we're not moving this needle a whole lot unless you're willing to make a $300,000 cut which is for Ricky says four hundred thousand which is going to be serious in that sense right here so exercise and a $400,000 cut those two movement right Bridget just down below 5% exactly it's still in my humper then yes right a hard number to swallow anyway I mean personally four hundred thousand I totally want to smell it made major changes cut I mean asked us to cut it boys yeah I mean we can go through it can we get thirty

161thousand out of this thing $40,000 than fifty thousand out of this thing I don't have an answer I mean I've seen doing at it you really looked at this you've got it looked at almost every single line you've looked at every single line on both sides of the budget the schools in it I don't think there's any fat in here I think you're cutting to the bone I think if people are watching this they're gonna see the care and consideration this board took and putting this budget together and I think we have to have a good presentation to the town and tell them why we are where we are and then I think if people trust us and believe that we're doing the right things I think they they would vote for this all right

162then I think we're it's stup if we're on tomorrow we're at Town Hall and we're off tomorrow the way the agendas are written then we're gonna update Thursday's agenda as we have some other business that we love John talked about 250 minutes yep forgot it and the audit does have factored into the budget so it is legit discussion for that caught it for Thursday anything else no it was just that there's they doing yes yes so I what up so just for the board members who weren't at the Audit Committee meeting with the auditor on Friday so on Friday morning the audit committee and members of town management and Board of Ed met with our audit partner and audit manager and they reviewed a draft of the kafir' which is basically the town audit with

163us so that that's a that's a thick document they can go through a page by page they also have a summary letter of findings in the audit summarizing the financial statements summarizing issues that were that were uncovered and we went through each of those in some detail it was about an hour meeting that we had with the auditor and with the whole group there were questions asked back and forth and the amount of committee sat with the auditors by themselves without management there to have other conversations so I received today final drafts of all that stuff I've been through the capper word for word every word I don't expect the next 48 hours anybody else to do that but what I'm going to be doing is sending tomorrow morning the whole Board of Finance copies

164of the capper copies of the letter transmittal letter still isn't quite finished yet yeah we're updating a couple things based on comments right we'll have that done tomorrow morning okay so I'm going to send all that out to the board with with a summary document of what was discussed at that meeting and then on Thursday I'd like 15 minutes of time that might be a lot to to walk through what we discussed and having the rest of the board be able to ask the Audit Committee and myself questions because we as a board need to adopt that that audit on Thursday because our extension for the audit to be filed with the state is on Friday and so it's gonna be filed on Friday so it has to be done so I'm gonna send all

165that information I would I'd like you to read kind of my summary and the the summary letter I don't expect you to read the hundred page kafir in the next 48 hours but but over time you probably didn't get be a good exercise how its conducted and its timing with the budget they are very related event this time we will have our audit and delivered and published with the state before our budget goes to it which is closed before ok so yes tomorrow if we have our meeting will be at Town Hall if not Thursday will be here Media Center the next big event after Thursday is April 3rd we have the Board of Finance public hearing on this the Board of Finance draft of the budget that'll be the next big thing what is

166the don't has their town meeting I'm a capital that's March 29th right so make sure to Tuesday's the school that's usually not a really long eating's because really what it's doing is setting the referendum day okay that's all this and then you open then the Board of Finance presentation to the entire town as well operating capital and schools can we typically invite the schools at least for the last two years the schools will participate usually here nothing I'll make a motion that we adjourn a second all those in favor gave us no [Music]