Board of Education 1-20-26

001Uh welcome to the finance committee of the whole meeting tonight. Uh we are discussing the budget that we are going to vote out of finance committee tonight to the full board so that Thursday night we can have discussion again as a full board and uh with possible action and that will happen at the uh general meeting Thursday night. So with that I would ask for Mr. Jazenski to call the role. >> Mr. >> Here >> thank you. Would you all stand it with for the pledge, please? >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Um, looks like we may have an audience member. Did you want to address the

002board on something budget related? Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is Lisa Duperry. I live at 15 Watchill Road. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this year's budget. I appreciate the difficult decisions you face and your commitment to our students. I also want to recognize the wonderful work being done to support our elementary schools. Those investments are making a real difference and it's important that we ensure that same level of support continues into our middle and high schools. I'm here to ask that you please consider adding teachers to the middle school to help keep class sizes manageable. Middle school is a critical transition and smaller class sizes allow teachers to better support students academically and socially during these formative years. I also strongly encourage you to consider the proposal to

003add a dedicated STEM curriculum coordinator for the middle and high school levels. Strong STEM leadership helps align instruction, support teachers, and prepare students for future opportunities. Finally, I want to respectfully remind the board that in the last three years, we've lost sixth grade Spanish, middle school German, and middle school economics. Continued cuts risk weakening the strong foundation that our students need. Our middle and high schools must remain strong for our district to succeed. Thank you for your time and continued service. >> Very much for your comments. Is there anybody else? Thank you. We appreciate hearing um what's important to people. Uh with that, I will uh first send this meeting to um Assistant Superintendent Marlene Solano. >> Good evening. >> I have in front of me a letter from Dr. Solen that he's asked that

004I read to you all this evening. Good evening. I am sorry that a medical procedure has left me unable to attend this evening. I appreciate the time, attention, and feedback already given by our members of the board of in the community as we navigate this budget process and thank you for indulging me in this message. I mentioned among my responsibilities as superintendent that I present a fiscally responsible budget that addresses the needs of our students. Our success relative to per pupil spending over the past decade serves as a model for efficiency. Economic circumstances beyond the control of the administration board council have played sign placed significant strain on the budget. The more than $2.5 million reduction made from last year's board approved budget allowed us to carry forward into this year but puts immense pressure

005on the budget for next year. Particularly in the face of growing enrollment, our current budget reflects some of the lowest discretionary allocation in decades. Connecticut district's per pupil expenditure data for the current school year isn't yet available, but we cher rank near the bottom of our DUI for PPE in the last reported school year. This budget is a substantial increase, but is designed with the same principles that yielded the efficient success we have had in the past. As we move forward in this process, it will prove to be incredibly difficult to make further reductions in the budget lines that have limited impact on students. Those have been gradually or dramatically shaved over the years. I regret that we are reaching a place that significant reductions will only be possible by making reductions that are felt

006through programs and services to our students. Again, I regret that I'm unable to be there this evening to assist in this difficult work, but I appreciate that everyone in this community is here to reach the best possible outcomes for our students in these difficult circumstances. Thank you, Dr. Jeff Solen. >> Thank you, Miss Solano. So we are going to move forward um with public discussion regarding the superintendent's recommended budget. Uh we will start within finance committee. Um we will also entertain uh questions and comments from uh other board members. And >> I just wanted to point out that each of you has in front of you a series of questions that was submitted to us either from board members or from other members of the public. There are some I think 50 plus questions that

007might be up to 70. Um Emily and I are are here and available to answer any questions that you may have that are either covered in this document or that you have outstanding at this point. >> Yes. Thank you for whoever ran this printed this off. I was having a little bit of trouble reading it on my phone, but I am getting old. So, I appreciate the printed copy. Um, Carol Can I ask you a procedural question? Um, when are we reading um from public comment? >> We should do it now. >> Um, I also have before me a letter that has been asked uh to be read for public comment. Um, it's from Brian Lopez. Good evening. I am a 21-year teacher veteran of Dodd Middle School as well as former coach of several

008sports teams and 16y year science division leader. I am also a proud parent of three children that have and continue to benefit from the fantastic services that Cheshire public schools offer to all children of our town. Thank you to Dr. Solen and the board for this opportunity to share my opinions on the current budget discussions. It is my understanding that Dodd requested and was a for unfortunately denied an extra one half team for eighth grade for the upcoming year which I feel is a mistake for many reasons. Throughout my 21 years at Dodd I have witnessed many changes but one key aspect that has never changed is the dedication, professionalism and priority placed by the teachers and staff towards making Dodd an excellent place to work and for our students to learn at a high

009level. Although our demands within the classroom may have increased over the years with complex thinking, SEAL technology, our teachers have always risen to the occasion and produced amazing results both on test data and more importantly the respect earned from the parents and the public for our efforts. This was very evident with the tremendous growth shown last year on our ESPback and NGSS data. Therefore, it surprises me that our request for an extra team was denied given our ability to succeed while dealing with ever growing class sizes. I'm currently seeing classes averaging 25 to 27 students with some classes on neighboring teams nearing 30 students. We currently have one team that is forced to teach two grade levels which is not the most efficient and productive means for delivering instruction and can negatively affect the students

010both academically and socially. In my 21 years at Dodd, I found that when having the fourth team for students, it more equally and efficiently spreads the students around allowing teachers to focus more on the needs of the students both academically and socially. Dodd has been requesting this fourth team for a few years now with no success. The middle school years are crucial for our learners as we prepare them for the rigors of high school. Dodd Middle School would be also seriously benefit from the addition of an extra administrator to assist with discipline and other matters such as planning for professional development and connecting with teachers and students in the classroom. I worry about all of these issues because as our town grows, the demands on teachers of Dodd will only intensify in the coming years,

011which was why I also was a huge proponent of building a new middle school a few years back. What is the district's plan for addressing the soontobe high school student enrollment at DOD? I'm sorry. What is the district's plan for addressing the soontobe high student enrollment at DOD? We will have trailers on the fields. That's a question. In conclusion, please reconsider the allocation of funds towards benefiting and supporting Dodd Middle School to the fullest extents possible. Dodd has always shown that we will produce on the investment. Thank you for that, Mr. Lopez. And with that, uh, let's move our discussion forward. We're currently working, um, and we have had two workshop sessions to go over the superintendent's proposed budget. I'm looking for the number. 83. [snorts] Yes. With a percentage increase of 8.83 or um

0128,226,443. Um which brings our budget to over 101,350,757. So, who would like to begin? >> Hey, before we get going, could I just get a quick follow up on Mr. Lopez's letter with the half team? How would that allocate? How would that fit into the existing structure? >> That's a great question. Marlene, can you explain how half teams work? >> Well, I can tell you that in response to um Mr. Lopez's comments, which I think we all appreciate. We understand that there is and rising enrollment at Dodd Middle School and we've sat down and worked out what that would look like. It is true we are going we are going to need that. It was made clear um in a conversation that Jeff has been communicating with me that he's had that no one said

013no. No one said that it it wasn't going anywhere, but I think when Dr. Solen made his first pitch, he said that that was something that we, you know, perhaps needed to consider in lie of some of the other things that were put into the budget. I know that this is something that's of concern in the coming years, looking at maybe a half team of two teachers teaching two subjects each to reduce some of that over overcrowding of the classrooms. So right now, you know, we've looked at every single class at Dodd and we've pulled that information and looked at those class sizes and they are higher than we would like to see. As a followup to that, if you don't mind, Mark, um, is it harder to find the teachers who can do the

014double subject matter or not? Really? Yeah, it is harder, but it all we also have some opportunities where if we're we can piece it together as long as you have teacher certification in certain areas. So, you can be a science teacher and teach a math class or or vice versa sometimes with social studies and ELA. So, both of those opportunities are possibilities. >> Thank you. Uh, anyone else have questions about the the half team? So, my other question I thank you for bringing that up, Mark, because that was actually on my list. Um, but the other question is, Marlene, can you explain to us how we are operating with three assistant principles in four schools and what adding the fourth uh assistant principal would do? Yeah. So, currently Erica Bordonro works with Scott Jeffrey at

015our largest elementary school at 900 students and Kathy Carluchi spends half of her time at Norton Elementary and half of her time at Chapman. So, she's going between the two buildings. Next year, when we're talking about the transition to Barnum, we will have two full-time administrators in that building. And so there is some leeway there for folks to um expand a little bit. Um also we still have Kathy who we could continue to share between the two schools next year and we could divide that a little differently seeing as we have two administrators at Barnum and then Kathy as the AP. we might be able to, you know, look at her, look at her days and split that up between both schools, the allocation. >> And then is the other AP at full-time at um

016Dittle? >> Yes. I'm sorry, Jillian. Um Roman is full-time at Dittle with Kristen Lopa. >> And she she's relatively new. She came in with when Kristen >> She did. She did. They were they were both starting the year off together. Kristen as first year principal and Jillian first year as assistant principal. >> Um Marlene, is there a cuto off at which the population of the school needs to be to have a full-time assistant principal or is that left to the discretion? >> That's left to discretion of the administration. It's something that we take a lot of things into consideration. We look at the needs of the teachers. We look at the evaluation needs. We look at the needs of the students. We look at 504 and IEP case loads. There's a number of things that

017we look at when we did that. Uh if you remember prior to COVID, um we did not have a full-time person in all of these buildings. We didn't have someone at Chapman. But with the needs after COVID, we saw some changes. We thought that would be a good part of our bounce forward program. also knowing full well that um in the years to come we will be looking to fill principal positions and what better training ground for a principal than an assistant principal. >> Thank you very much for that. Uh any other questions on personnel and how we're using them? Uh yeah, for the teams on the the middle school, I guess if money wasn't an object, what would be the most effective way to implement an additional team at DOD? Would it be four

018at once for a smooth transition or would it be >> I mean I think the way that we have talked about it would be to next year find two teachers to offload some of that and then the following year hire two teachers so that we can move with the growth of the enrollment at Dodd. So, a more precise question for me to ask there is, you know, I get the sense that we're doing that to try to phase in, you know, for the budget, right, and try to be responsible about this? Um, >> but is is that in some way you having to juryrig the structure to make a half team work? >> Listen, I think that we make do with what we have. We try to do that in every area, in every aspect,

019whether it's um through our supplies, through our staffing. We have folks who are, you know, take on additional responsibility. I I think we try to make it work keeping in mind what the the needs of the students are. You know, I know you've asked a couple this think this is your second question like if money were no object. It really isn't my reality. So um I think what we try to do is we try to meet the immediate needs that we need to with planning for the future s such as in that bounce forward plan knowing that we were going to need additional and knowing that we had a certain need now that that uh certain need after COVID. So I think we're always thinking to the future to make sure that we are covered

020and prepared for what's to come. >> Okay. Thank you. >> In other words, money is always an object. Yeah. >> Yeah. Money is always an object and and you're going to hear me ask that question that way a lot of times over the next four years because I'm also trying to understand, you know, when we make a compromise to get a half team, how much from the ideal state are we sacrifice sacrificing to do it that way? Right? And are we better off either finding a full team this year or waiting for a full team next year because that is a more efficient implementation that is better for the staff, better for the administration and better for the students. I don't know what the answer is. [snorts] >> Right. So I think you see that

021those discussions have happened. Those are always reflected in the superintendent's budget and the staffing that we ask for. You know, we we've sort of done that work behind the scenes. But yes, I I think it would be ideally we'd like to have two and then two the following year to keep up with demand. >> Um is it it's safe to say that we've done half teams at DOD many times in the past? >> Yes. Thank you. >> So it's not something new? >> No. >> Yeah. Um >> that that was actually my question slashstatement because I know we had um two men teams last year. we did. >> And I mean I I I never heard differently that they weren't um effective for our students. So it's not like we're going in unchartered waters, right?

022We have a model that we have used. Yes. Would it be perfect to have the fourman team right from the beginning? Absolutely. But um since money is an object, is putting a twoman team in next year and then adding the two detrimental? And I I think that's what's what the question is. And I I from personal experience, I know the twoman team worked very well last year. So um and I do have another question though. Do we still have any stu uh teachers with that K8 certification? >> I would need to double check that. Okay. And is it still I think it's um the SD has approved like if you have a le an eighth grade certification you can teach down a year. >> Yeah. There there are numerous flexibilities. >> So to find appropriate

023staff to staff that twoman team, you'd be able to >> we'd be able to do that. >> Okay. And somebody also made the uh point that it's easier to find those teachers now than it would be to wait until we get close to the start of the school year or even the summer really. It is always we are always in a better position to start earlier rather than later because there is a finite number of candidates out there. And we want to get the best ones. >> Question. Another question. Do we go um the HR department? You go to um teacher fairs at like the Yukons and the Southerns right now while these folks are in their last semester. >> So many of us have gone to these fairs. Myself and Ryan Murphy went to

024one a couple of years ago. I know that um folks in our HR department have went. I know Kelly Gillo is a staple at the Quinnipiac. Um and and a number of of our administrators are a staple at the mock um interviews that they have at Quinnipic because that's where you really get to meet some people. Um we we've done a number of those over the years, both virtual and in person >> because I know right now districts are going to these fairs and are bringing contracts with them to sign on the dotted line like right there if they have a good interview. So if we are looking for staffing along with everything else because we had a we had a discussion about this. I know in the um budget we're looking at kind of

025that mid four or fiveyear that's what he put in here. If we're lucky enough to get brand new out of the gate teachers we're saving thousands of dollars >> absolutely >> in that. And I'm not saying just take anyone, but um >> you know, southern, western, I mean, they all have pretty good teach you know, teaching departments. And I think if if we can get in on that ground floor and then you have a brand new teacher that um my principles love because they can kind of right root them into what their philosophy is, the climate of the school, etc. So >> the other place that starts is in hosting student teachers and interns and we have reciprocal relationships with Southern and Central and Sacred Heart and Yukon. Um you you name the school we

026have St. Joe's >> and our an agreement with them and and we're called upon um I would say almost every three days I get another request to place students here in Cheshire for their student teaching experience or their internship experience. So, that's also a nice way where we get to know some of these students. Sometimes, um, I know a lot of the administrators here will reach out and have students come in as long-term subs. It's a nice way for us to check them out. >> Quinnipiac, don't forget Quinnipiac. >> Quinnipiac is is one of Yes. Yes. my employer. [laughter] >> I'll be hearing about it if I don't uh make that clear. >> I think to and to your and Cullen and to your point, I think that um when we typically are waiting until

027the budget, we need to wait until the budget is passed by the town council. And um that puts us behind a lot of districts who are looking to make those hires early where they're offering a contract and we're saying, you know, we we might have something for you. So it does become challenging. >> Yeah, that's a very good point though, Amory. Thank you for that. Um which brings us I mean that was a nice segue to um we'd like to get a number to the town council. uh we'd like to get it to the full board for Thursday night so that we can have more discussion and vote on it. Um but I really feel that being responsible about all of this financially, we need to uh take that total increase percentage down from 8.83.

028So with that, I will entertain any sort of discussion about what may or may not be included in um in our budget that will move forward. >> Uh [clears throat] I have a couple questions or discussion points um for both the committee and the board of a whole. um the the stop-loss policy that we have, I would assume at this point for this budget cycle that that ship has sailed, right? Contracts have been signed, the benefits are in place. Like when does that policy go into effect? Any idea? >> So for you're talking about for fiscal year 27. >> Yeah. So we're in talks for the renewal. It's kind of in the final stages. So sometimes there's a deviation between the budget and where our actual renewal lands. But what I will say is there

029is an impact on the town as well. We go in with them. So like any change to that we're making we're not making it in a vacuum. So I actually I don't know what the the response would be but you know we've done this with them in the past. So okay >> um because we're also kind of married to them with medical benefits as well. >> Th this is one of the issues that keeps me up at night. I mean that stop-loss policy is 2% of our budget and I had asked the question and you had provided the information um on the premiums and the reimbursements I think since 20 uh 12 the data you provided goes back to 2012 um and I was surprised to find out that since 2020 2012 the town right

030mostly us they share some of the premium we have lost 4.7 $.7 million on that policy right now. And 3.8 of that is from 2122. Like we have not taken reimbursements higher than those premiums since the 2021 school year. Correction 2021. Now, I know the response to that is well like we never know, right? Like we have to have insurance and that's understandable. And so I'm not questioning the decision to enter into that policy. And I know we have an insurance advisory group that the town council is putting together. Um, now we have 13 years of data that say that that policy doesn't pay dividends to our community and in the last four years, five years, we, you know, could have covered up to $3.8 million of excess benefits costs and still come out ahead

031of where we are. And so I would ask that as you have those discussions with the town, I I don't know, maybe that's something that h we have to have by statute. I'm not familiar, but when I look at what we're paying and I look at what we're getting out of that, you know, that policy is a there's no way for me to slice that data and have that policy not be a a loser. And again, that doesn't mean it wasn't a good decision back then. Um, but we're going on five, six years here. They're increasing our premiums by 22%. And we haven't ever used it, right? It's not like somebody that's getting in a car accident five times and so your car insurance premiums go up, right? They we are getting reimbursements lower than

032the premiums and the premiums continue to go up 12 20 21 and 22% respectively the last four years. And so there's hopefully something there in those discussions with the town and as that renewal comes up for discussion. >> And just to add some additional context there, we you know we've talked to our brokers about is there an option to get our stop loss through Sigma who provides our medical benefits providers and they have not been able to match the premium payments that we are getting through CT prime. I'll also name that CT prime's uh makeup has changed significantly in the past five years. So you know there's there's an option and to to explore that. Um before 2012 and 2013 where you have the Symmetra data and then you have CT prime we were getting

033it through Anthem who was our medical provider and that was very disadvantageous to us. Um which is why we switched to Symmetra and divorced our stop loss from our medical provider but I certainly hear the point that you know we've we've taken in 4.4 in our loss ratio and that's that's a big number. Would you know if the town is benefiting from that the town side >> the stop loss? I would have to um just check to see what their stop uh their medical sorry their loss ratio is. Um I know just like anecdotally it's been more favorable and it's helped with our premium renewals. Um but we also make up 70% of the medical claims. No. >> Okay. >> I will say um the town certainly because we work in tandem on this issue

034um the medical benefits issue with the town. They are aware of where always where we are with those um losses. But that that's a very good point. Thank you for bringing that up, Matt. >> I have another topic if I can keep going. >> Please do. >> Maybe I'll just stand up and go to the podium. Um, this one relates to transportation. Um, and Chris Afy, >> before you go, is one of these that are in these pages? Okay. So, it's an additional. All right. >> Y >> um Chris Afy, if you're watching, this one goes out to you. I know we've had a lot of discussion on transportation. Um, and I've heard nothing but great things about Luther transportation department from parents, administrators, even drivers that I've talked to. And so what I'm about

035to walk through is not directed at any individual department or decision that's been made. Um, but when COVID hit, I was one of the parents that said, "Look, I'm just going to drive my kids." And it became a good habit. It became a lot of great quality time that I had in the car with them. And and we never went back. And I started looking at this or thinking about this more when the news article came out last fall about no space on buses, right? Where it was really well there was no space to give to walkers because all of the seats were advocated. And so the process today for opting out as I understand it and Marlene or Emily like please correct me if I'm wrong. I seem to get an email every August

036from the transportation department that says, "If you don't need transportation this school year, please let us know and opt out." I have always ignored it. I've never thought anything of it. Like, you know, okay, well, whatever. It is what it is. And when that news story came out about walkers wanting some bus seats, but they weren't getting them, I thought, well, my three kids aren't using them. And so I immediately opted out to try to make three spots available for walkers. Um I recently last week I went to Dittle. My kids hated me because I dropped them. I showed up 15 minutes early and I counted the cars. Now districtwide according to Dr. Solen. We have approximately a 100 students opt out of transportation right now in K through eight. I sat in the dittle

037parking lot and I counted 101 cars dropping off students. Two kids, three kids, what's the average? I don't know, 1.5 per car, something like that. I then went to uh Norton and did the same thing. And there were 95 cars dropping students off, right? Way more than the number of students that have opted out. Now, at Norton, if you know how that setup is, I can also see the buses coming through. The stated capacity on those buses is 77 students, which is three students per row. There wasn't one row on any of those buses that were three students. I don't know what the right number is. I'm not saying it should be 77. That seems like it would be a crammed bus. But there were many seats with two students, many seats with one student,

038and many seats with no students. And so I think if we took a look at our transportation policy and the opt out program, there is a win-win here for the community, for the school, for the operating budget, and that is to message the opt out earlier in the process, explain the benefits. I had no idea, no idea until Thursday, I think it was you, Emily, $1,400 per student on a bus. So, my three kids not taking that bus essentially wastes the town $4,200, right, until I opt out. Now, if there's a critical mass of them across the right tiers, across the right schools, there is a way to lower the number of buses that we need. Drop offs is more traffic. That's, you know, it's a parents prerogative to do that if they need to

039do that. On one extreme, every student takes a bus. They're all perfectly utilized. There's no drop offs. On the other extreme, every parent is driving all of their students, we don't even need buses in the transportation budget anymore, right? And the truth is somewhere in the middle. And I think if we were to re-evaluate that process as a whole, we could do a lot better on the efficiency of buses. And I come at this from the perspective that Mrs. Duperry shared earlier today that if we can reduce one bus, we can have sixth grade Spanish back. It's about the same cost. And I'd much rather have Spanish than a bunch of large buses not being fully utilized. I don't know if that's too It's probably too late to do anything for this budget cycle, but

040I think it's definitely something that would pay huge dividends to look at from the ground up um when appropriate. >> So Matt, >> go ahead. So just to add one piece of that because I agree with you. Um but I I think the problem is even more evident in um the middle school and high school. Um sometimes the students take the bus in and then you see them walking down Route 10. And I think it's hard for parents and it's hard for us like how do we do we take attendance? Do we say if you refuse to take the bus, I'm making this up, four times, then you're off, you know, because they're older kids. I mean, right? I I mean, we see them walking out of DOD. We see them walking out of the

041high school. So, I don't know what the answer is, but I think it's a good point to look at it because the high school buses leaving are empty to the most part. >> Ms. Emily Taylor, can you speak to that? Sorry, I was just pulling some of the opt out information. Um, specifically, especially as we look at Dodd and the high school. Um, so, >> but Emily, the parents aren't opting out, >> right? >> The kids are. [clears throat] >> Yeah. So, and at the high school, I was I was looking at um Dodd specifically to see where the optouts opt outs lie, and the majority of them are actually um for St. Bridget School. It's not for um parent pickup reasons. Um but I do know at the high school we the the opt

042out that we're getting the most traction with is with um kids that are getting their licenses. And so posed a question to Luther last week is is there a way to kind of bundle kids that are having siblings or driving neighbors and so that we can maximize that parking pass opt out system. And there are some like legal things we have to consider about, you know, driving and you've got like six months where you need to be with an immediate family member. But I think that there are definitely ways to revamp it and make it a little clearer the benefits of opt out so that we're maximizing our buses and also getting the casting the widest net so we're not just asking about the student who has the license or um even their sibling like

043if they're they have you know if they're driving neighbors around. I do think though for the first six months or even year once they get a license they can't drive siblings around >> so >> or neighbors or kids. So >> just quick followup aren't we even if they opt out aren't we required to provide them transportation? >> So our current optout form says if at any point in the school year you need to get back on transportation then you need to give us three days notice. So, at this point, we're banking on, you know, if they need it at some point. I think Luther has still maximized buses, and I would need to check in with him to see, are we getting students that are, you know, taking back their their opt out. So, I

044will look into that um more, but I don't know the I'd have to look at the policy to see if there's anything specifically with the regulations about forfeiting your bus seat for the year. >> Yeah. >> So, I'll do that. I I seem to remember asking this question once before and we were told that we have to provide it those buses have to run whether they're on them or not which is very frustrating but >> well two two points to that one I want to make it very clear I'm not advocating in any way any sorts of mandates on parents based on any situation right you have siblings you have a license you have this you have that like you you must opt out that's not what I'm saying I'm saying a stronger stronger presence

045and a stronger marketing, for lack of a better word, of the impacts, the positive impacts to the school, the budget, the community of look, if you're going to drive your kid every morning, great. Let us know so that we can plan accordingly and do it on a timeline that allows us to operate that way. I have asked this question um to school officials and I was told that with the critical mass and the right tiers and the right timing and the right school that you could eliminate buses and you would still be compliant with providing transportation because at some point you would if needed they could opt back in. But you know out of those 101 cars that do little, I bet 95 of them were the same ones I see every day. So, uh,

046it's it's just a big big ticket item and and something that I think could pay dividends if we looked at it. >> Well, that's certainly something that we could look at going forward. Um I also along with that uh Emily if you're putting together data could you also just find out how long we have been looking at this issue because I know we've been talking about it for a few years and I I'd kind of like to know so what are the barriers that are keeping us from doing a different policy or whatever. >> Can I ask a question? Sorry. >> Yes. Not to belabor the I I think there is probably some efficiencies to be realized on transportation. Absolutely. Um I just don't know the answer to this but if you there's a lot

047of parents who drop off but can't pick up right. And so I'm trying to understand is an opt out full opt out. It's like you can't do I can opt out for morning but I opt in on afternoon. Like I don't know can you split that or is an opt out an opt out? >> Yeah >> you you can split it. I need to get some data on how many people are actually splitting or just opting out for the whole. >> Okay. So, you can split. Great. >> Yes. >> Oh, and that's another good point. How many of our our students stay after school in activities, YMCA programs, things like that are also allocated to bus seats. And to your point, I mean, they they weren't going to go home at dismissal anyway. >> So,

048and I can imagine middle school and high school, there's a lot more. I need to get there, but I'll get home a different way. Probably opposite for maybe elementary. So anyway, yeah, it's good to know you can split. So, but I do think I I agree there's efficiencies here we can realize. >> I I think this is a good conversation and just to Mr. Kau's point, I do think that that information or inquiry needs to be moved to the committee for policy because we did discuss this within the policy committee several times. um you know, Connecticut state statute's only um request for us as a district would be that we provide reasonable and desirable transportation. We as a district set the limits as to the mileage and so forth. So I think we need to

049um rehash this conversation in policy. >> I agree. >> Okay, let's s Mr. White. >> Yeah. So on transportation just a slightly different tack on this u it's probably would be a question for Jeff Vin is not here tonight right this is probably some institutional knowledge um I'm wondering if we as a board or the chesh public schools has ever had a conversation with planning and zoning about new developments as they come in specifically with regard to accessing schools whether it's sidewalks in general or um a new development goes in and as we see with Norton School, we have a back driveway now and if the development in my opinion was well planned, the development could include consideration for sidewalk accesses to other roads. So people wouldn't have to be worried or concerned about motor

050vehicle traffic, but we could have cutthroughs in sort of unusual ways. We've got just Norton School alone. [clears throat] I know they have a sidewalk that basically goes through two people's yards off of Farmington A, but most people are probably unaware of it. Um, we have the back access driveway now off of Sharon Drive. Um, Dodd here. We've got access through some tennis courts that are apparently abandoned, unfortunately. Um, but coming through the back side of Dodd, I think Pain Drive has a sidewalk between Payne and Redstone that goes through the middle of the two roads, not on the roads, but in the backyards. Mark is agreeing with me that there's something there. He knows all this stuff as a cop. as a forward cop. My point is is uh from a planning perspective, I

051wonder if there is any sort of long-term win there in terms of transportation costs and minimizing school buses. I don't know where the undeveloped land is off the top of my head, but if there is any possibility for that, I think it would be useful to get that on planning and zoning's radar to keep the schools in mind and foot traffic for kids. The best example of that is probably Barnum when the sidewalks were added around those neighborhoods. >> Probably one example. >> There's no there's no sidewalks on Marian yet though, are there? >> It's just the It's the culdeacs that are off of Marion, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's Marian. That's the >> right not on Marwalk next to >> I know they did. So this this I'm sure there are safety issues

052related to where we can let students walk and not walk in sidewalks and stuff. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I didn't in intend to say anything, >> but just something for the radar. That's all. >> As Sam was saying, all of this um should be discussed at policy and it's not going to affect our budget that we're sending forward tonight. So let's let's move on to um other issues for discussion for the budget number. >> Does Matt have any other items? >> I think Matt has more. >> Um yeah, I have many more. Um, Marlene or Emily, could you talk a little bit about I mean I I looked at the budget three times and I did it three different ways and one of the ways that I looked at it was you know last year

053the board of ed passed a budget to the town council. the town council came back and cut funding from that board and then or from that budget and then the board of ed had to figure out [snorts] like where they were going to cut the items that they had already approved before sending it to the town. And so I went through each of those line items and looked at what was the 2425 budget, what was the board of ed approved budget for 2526 that got sent to the town council, and then where did it end up after the town council cuts? And I compared those line items to the recommendations for 2627. Um, there were 31 30 items on that list and I'm not saying that these are all feasible or possible, but if nobody

054else is going to volunteer a starting point, um, what I would volunteer is if those items we restored the funding to the recommended or the board of ed approved levels last year, this budget that we're discussing now would decrease increase by approximately $1.5 million. And I have a list of what those items are. It doesn't mean that all of them are feasible in doing so um in restoring them. But for example, I'm just picking one at random. The PAR educators, we cut $125,000 from that budget post TC last year and this budget increase is now increasing that line line item $332,000. So we are going above and beyond what that level would have been with the town council. Now we restored that pareducator item and we put the $125,000 back in and made that item

055what the board of ed approved budget was last year. This budget increase would decrease by $ 1.5 million. So it's still adding items. It's still increasing budgets to for many of these line items, but not on the makeup rate, so to speak, of hey, we didn't get a year of increases, so now here's a two-year increase. So Matt, I'm not sure and Emily may be able to help out a little bit with this, but I know you just gave an example of PAR educators. So a lot of our planning comes from the individual needs of students. So that changes from year to year. The other point I'll make on that is that when we had to make cuts to things this year that may have been in the original proposed budget were cut, they were

056things that we sort of said, "Okay, well, maybe we can't buy those this year. There's still things that we need on top of the things that we need for next year. we're asking for those things to be reinstated so that we can buy the things that we didn't buy or that we didn't get to do this year. So that's sort of where that that comes from my perspective. >> Yeah, I par educators is an interesting example because I think that this is a compounded issue. Um, when I think about PAR educators specifically, it's the new laws that went into effect on October 1st with the Connecticut paid leave and CTF FMLA, of which many of our PAR educators were not eligible until that point. I mean, it's been uh an administrative nightmare. Um, but it's

057also represented a lot of um a way that we have shifted a lot of what we've done since 101 to account for PAR educators going on leave for three months, 12 weeks for CTFMLA when that was not happening before. We didn't even have that in our contract for our substitute services because that wasn't a thing that we would have even really needed to account for last year when we were having this budget conversation. That doesn't hold for every line item that you're talking about, Matt, but I'm just thinking about this one specifically as an example where there's there's not a like a flat increase that can um account for the leaves that we're seeing or could have anticipated. Um, but it's been pretty stark with the PAR educators. >> Matt was the PAR educator part

058of the budget. That's like one of the bigger items on your list. No. >> Uh for the 2026 2027 increases and these items specifically that we're talking about that face town council cuts last year and increases this year. Um yes, that is one of the larger increases at 332,000. The other six-f figureure ones are pupil transportation which we cut last had to cut post town council last year by 25,000 and then this year is increasing 700,000 and by memory 500 of that is special ed 200 of that is standard um you know standard education um textbooks and software uh is $171,000 increase this year but $56,000 over the budget ask last year. Um, directors and supervisors, but that's because of the proposed assistant principal. Teachers, you know, we all know the enrollment situation that we're

059in. Uh, instructional supplies is $103,000 increase, but that is still less than the reduction last year. So, you will not find me um looking after that one. Those are some of the the bigger items that are above last year's ask despite town council cuts. >> I would say that regarding the textbooks and software those increases, I think that we are trying as I mentioned the other night that we are trying to stay current with what we have. And so we have a list of of things that te are on teachers list for the resources that they would like. I I mentioned the other day one of those subscriptions being um a reading assessment that we give that right now K through six is scoring by hand and that's multiple times per year. That would have

060been something that if we had the money in the budget last year we would have done. It's not efficient. It's not the the the most efficient way to do it. it's taking up a lot of teachers time that could be done um you know being one-on-one with kids rather than hand scoring. So that that's just an example and those things unfortunately just they have a he hefty price tag just to give you some you know just trying to give you some background on some of those things >> and and just to be clear especially to my colleagues you know as a new board member here I I moved to Cheshure for the education system. I'm extremely proud of the education system that we have. I want to keep investing in it. I want to make

061the budget increases sustainable and I want every dollar in the classrooms, you know, that's possible. Mrs. Duperry mentioned Spanish, economics, German, um, you know, and then obviously these these teachers. So, you know, there are things in this budget to me that maybe it's 10 or $5,000 here or there, but if I do that 10 times, I, you know, we can get sixth grade Spanish. we can, you know, find spots for the half team at DOD. Uh that that's the angle I'm coming from on this. just to just to make sure you understand that I know that's where you're coming from. And um you know, we we look at things on our end, too. You know, just like some of those those little things that are lowhanging fruit. You know, we used to bus kids over

062to the high school for the mile run. We're not doing that anymore. We eliminated that piece of transportation. We used to have a science quest for um elementary school students after school in the wintertime. That was about $10,000. That got eliminated in 2019. We used to give this pass assessment to our youngest learners. We we eliminated that. We're working right now at looking at another platform that we use for teacher evaluation, seeing how we can do that at home. All of those things are in those lower price ranges. So, I think about an apple tree. um that's filled with apples and the one here in Cheshire maybe doesn't have apples on the lowest part because we've already picked all that. So I appreciate it's always nice to have a new board member because you come

063in with fresh eyes, you have different questions, you have fresh ideas that you know there's always something in there that's part of a conversation that's um food for thought. So I I'd certainly appreciate your questions. So re related to that um you know there's been some discussion at some of these workshops uh and you know we've had some comments from the community on the half team at DOD uh I know in Dr. Solen's original presentation he mentioned that it was in there and he took it out before bringing it to the rec to the board. Do you have any sense for if that was the board's preference to have a half team at DOD where else you would be picking those apples off the tree? >> I think I think in Dr. Sen's original comments,

064if I'm remembering back it, he was thinking about the the two administrative positions that we had and reallocating funding from that for for teachers at Dodd. So, I know that doesn't help you right now. Are you saying that in his original budget before he Yeah, I think when he when he brought originally brought this up, he shared all of those and then said that this is, you know, a back and forth process that we put this out there and it and it's a dialogue. It's a dialogue between the board and the community and and the administration. And um in my presentation, you'll recall that those two line items were in italics that we we certainly need the the elementary teachers unless again we're talking about increasing class sizes and then having those two in italics

065as an understanding that you know we understand that these might not be able to go forward. We would reallocate Yeah, >> this is just a comment. I think um keeping class sizes where they are or lower is one of my main priorities. And I I think in some discussions and some questions, you know, we all are in agreement that we have to maintain andor look at that and you know in some of our [snorts] um classrooms which supports the need [clears throat] the need for new hires as teachers. Yeah. Um, where I come down on that, and I've said since the very beginning when, uh, the budget was presented to us, uh, was, you know, I think we do need the half team at Dodd. We need those two teachers included in the budget. And

066the number that was given, I believe, was 170,000 for those two teachers. Um, and even if we take the STEM coordinator, which I agree is a valuable position, but I'm in this budget, I'm advocating for uh more classroom teachers rather than the administrative positions. But even if I take out the 135,000 for the STEM coordinator and the 165,000 for the AP, um I really am only reducing this budget by $130,000, which is a drop in the bucket. >> It's 300,000. Say that. Did I do my See, I should never be trusted with math. >> No, it goes from >> 135 + 165 >> 135 165 minus but 170 plus. >> Yeah. >> About 13. >> Yeah. So you're only taking 130,000 out which really is it's not >> not very much. >> It's not very

067much. So I'm proposing that we we talk in those terms about the hiring. I would not touch the additional teachers that we need to keep the class sizes down that Jeff did include in his budget for the elementary levels. I would not touch that. >> And I think it's even more than just keeping the class sizes down in that we need more teachers to just cover the students that we'll have in the fall >> because there are more students. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. Emily, can I just ask um with regards to the the inside maintainer position, is there a possibility that there's a shared responsibility amongst buildings? And I I know you said it before, but >> yeah. So, we're not onetoone with inside maintainers as it is. There's five across our campuses now.

068Two of which are at the high school um and the others are at um Dodd, Highland, and Dittle. So by not hiring an additional one, there wouldn't be an inside maintainer for our new buildings with all the system automations which probably have a higher need than the currently existing campuses. Um >> especially because it's a new building, you know, >> and and you know, our director of facilities, his original recommendation was for an additional grounds person, um a building maintainer, which is a custodian, and the inside maintainer, but we just moved forward with the inside maintainer being the highest need position. And we're also supplementing that $95,000 van with the C grant. Right. >> So that's the $56,000 van. That's for the community life program. The $95,000 van would be for the um our our

069busy yard, not not associated with the community life van, some of our end of life vehicles. >> Thank you. >> I I think at this point it's just well my opinion is obviously we have a difficult decision. you guys have a difficult decision to make being the finance committee um as to what exactly um the percentage and amount in you know approved would be at this point. What I'm hearing, which I'm in agreeance with, is that we don't want to um eliminate anything that would be direct student facing, right? Um, but I'm also worried and concerned that once it gets to the town council and I don't want the pattern that we've been, you know, doing this three past three to four years is that we ended up cutting the current staffing composition as opposed

070to adding what we need knowing our enrollment decreases and the need that comes with those increases. So, I guess for me it's what are we what are we slashing off of these line items here >> and you're talking about the line items that Matt's >> right like what is I guess Mr. call out. What is what is your proposed reduction with the proposed request from the superintendent? >> I gota be honest. I didn't know you'd ask me that question tonight >> to say it. >> I'm sorry. Say that again. >> I didn't know you were going to ask me that question today. >> I mean, I know you have a really and I appreciate the spreadsheet. Thank you. Um, I just wanted to kind of get a sense out there what what we're trying to

071look at, especially for those watching at home, you know, which lines we're looking at and what we're willing to at least reduce currently. >> Well, I I do have those line items. And the other method that I looked at for this >> [clears throat] >> um, you know, just to get familiar with the budget is to look at any line item that was increasing greater than 20%. because what we kept hearing was contractual increases 4% 5% things like that and so I went through the line items and I found you know a a large number of line items that are increasing more than 20%. And that was just a number I picked at at random and said okay well let's let's write down all of the ones that are greater than 20%. And some of

072them make sense. um you know like what's proposed in here for example one that makes sense is uh account 111 director and coordinator of curriculum is increasing 116%. Well, as proposed, that's the STEM coordinator, right? So, that one line item, as we've discussed, says, okay, well, that's that's why it is. I have a long list of them here, and I'm absolutely willing to go through them and and discuss with everybody where are those cuts. Um, it is purely academic math, but had you capped each of these line items at 20% rather than as proposed, the difference in budget would be $3 million less than as proposed. Now, again, that's not all feasible. You know, some of these are you go from making this up, but one music teacher to two, you know, you're going to

073get a 100% increase and and we we may need that. Um, but there are some in here that are equipment, supplies, you know, the the way that we've calculated certain things. Maybe I don't even understand some of it, but the difference if you were to cap all the increases at 20%. Um, there's there's $3 million there. Matt, what what were the um what was the savings when you did it the other way, which was bring us back to 2025? >> Yeah. >> If I brought us back to board of ed approved levels on just the items that the town coun like we had to cut, um it's $1.5 million approximately. So th those are two starting points. If stop-loss and transportation aren't things that we can affect on this cycle, those are are two starting

074points for how we could attack this is look at items that were, you know, as Marlene mentioned saying, well, we would have liked to fund them last year, so now let's fund that item and whatever we would have funded on [snorts] that line item this year. >> Um, I actually would I would entertain working with that 1.5 million. I I did ask the superintendent and I think Marlene you might have it. I did ask the superintendent if he can kind of put a you know we do this every year a kind of a worst case scenario breakdown. Um did he give that to you? >> Yeah. Thank you. >> It's just a one pager. This one pager, right, Marlin? >> Yeah. [sighs] So that so this potential reduction Matt is very close to your 1.5

075million but this this definitely eliminates the one thing that we're all in agreeance with is the student contact staffing that you know >> student facing staff. >> Which one? Oh no, >> no teachers. >> The five elementary classroom teachers. >> So the initial proposal was five elementary school teachers. We would scratch that out, which then looks to me >> is the highest number. >> Yeah, it's the highest number, but it also goes back to the argument of, >> you know, you have a potential class size increase now >> for K6 at least. I'm not sure about, you know, how that's going to impact secondary. It's not in here. But, >> well, it also doesn't have the 170,000 in there for the dot team half team. >> Right. Sizes would remain >> high. >> Right. So,

076we wouldn't even entertain that request at all. >> No. where um Matt in your calculations where does instructional supplies line fall in terms of >> um there are several sub accounts to that? 's pupil services um $36,000 increase requested this year, which is $9,000 over um last year's approved budget. Curriculum materials is a $17,000 increase, which is an $8,500 above last year's uh approved level. Testing is a $29,000 increase this year. That's $5,600 over approved levels last year. And again, these are all items that were subsequently cut by the town council's um BOE cut. And staff training uh is an $11,000 increase this year with $5,000 over last year's approved number. Um, >> if the board would like us to go back and look at that 20%, we could look at that line by line

077and bring that back for you to discuss on Thursday. >> Um, it's not the 20% that I I was more interested in the going back to what we approved last year for the budget before it went to the town council and got slashed. I I will note just for transparency and thoroughess that there are 16 line items in here where you are not even coming back to the levels. Right? So I don't want this to be a one-sided affair. Uh there there are 16 line items in here that were cut from last year's budget. You are requesting increases but it doesn't come to the level of what was approved last year. So, >> right, >> you know, I I don't in any way mean to say that this is a a grab what you can.

078Um I I do think, >> you know, we're doing the best that we can in the budget environment that we're in. >> I appreciate what what Dr. Solen did here. But, you know, I think a lot of the discussion that we've had amongst ourselves is is we want teachers in the classroom and that is the the bulk of these proposed cuts to get us to 1.1. I'm a history teacher, not a math guy, but I it's in a ballpark of 355,000. If you uh remove the the the teachers from this reduction from 1.1, it's going to end up about 355, which again isn't going to get us where we want to get to. >> I think you just go ahead. >> Go ahead, Mr. White. Thank you. [clears throat] Um, yeah, I've said it a

079couple times, I think, in the past few meetings. The the 9% is just a really big number, the 9% increase, and ultimately this gets decided by the council, whatever the number is. So, we give a recommendation. My experience on the council is it's a vote more on tax rate than it is on any budgets. Um, the thing that's going through my mind right now where I'm hoping to get some feedback from the administration is just as an example, I'm looking at the responses to questions. Uh, page three. As I glance through here, probably at least half of these items refer to budget restoration. And I very much appreciate the past few meetings that we've had and the especially like the instructional supplies supplies that you are showing us Marlene and how understand how important that

080is. But I also have in mind that the grandless growth which we're expecting primarily from the north end development also from housing to some extent is going to probably arrive next year and if there's less budget restoration this year with the reasonable belief that we'll be having grandless growth next year. I think my preference would be to delay perhaps a significant amount of this spending that's described as a budget restoration. Um, again, it's not to say that anything any of the explanations that were given were were bad at all. And I think they all have a lot of value, but we pay taxes and the grandless growth would, you know, reduce that a bit hopefully next year. Um, but I just think we've got to do a significant amount here of budgetary changes because I

081frankly I frankly think the council's gonna they're going to give us more than a million dollar cut. I it just seems that way to me. I think it's uh I think this number is significant. Um, and so I'm looking for more recommendations from the superintendent above and beyond what's here at this 1.1 million. And I and I do I mean I also agree on the point about having classroom teachers and [clears throat] our projection is I know I have it right here in front of me but I'm not going to be able to get to it too quickly. Our projection is basically for for student population growth over the next few years. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Okay. And from what I recall, you know, going back say five years in time, we were looking

082to probably add 15 teachers within five years. We're probably at that sort of fiveyear window when this had been going through my mind a little a little while back. So, we're probably adding three teachers, three classroom teachers per year, probably all at the elementary level. So, I think it makes a lot of sense to have those classroom teachers there. Um, and everything else, uh, is from my perspective for this year. Um the budget restoration is tough right now. So that's it for me. Thank you. >> Do you want to go and then I >> go? Oh um yeah I've a long time students have benefited deeply from the fantastic education they received. I hate nickel and diamonding. It makes me sad um because it's so little that we have to actually work with when there's

083such these big buckets of things that are seemingly like untouchable uh being like, you know, obviously salaries, um benefits, transportation, outplacement. Um on the transportation front, I know we were talking about buses, but and I love I know we love where we've got right now, but have we put it out do we put it out to bid? Is there any benefit to I don't know how that works every year. I don't know. You know, do we? No, we don't. Or if >> Oh, no. We do it probably like what Emily can speak. It's like >> Well, I don't know. I'm just saying I I'm sure there's probably not much to be saved, but it's like, okay, big chunk. Anything to be saved there? Um, >> go ahead. >> I can speak to that. So, we

084do we go go out to bid. I mean, we have a 5-year contract with Datco at this point with pretty favorable year-to-year increases. Um, especially I've seen some of the rates even with DATCO at other school districts um that have more recently engaged with them. So, you know, we're contracted through um 2029 and you know, we have a possibility for an extension if we do some electrifi electrifi I'm >> electrification. >> There we go. Bingo. Um if we do some of those efforts and so we we it is a contract that we go out to bid for. One of the contracts we are going out to bid for is our cleaning contract right now, which was one of the more sizable increases with the 9% increase in square footage, but that's going out to bid

085in the spring. Um, but that was also accounted for in this budget. >> I'm sure. I mean, it's the thing. I'm sure you guys do tremendous. I just feel like I have to, you know, say it, hear the answer. Everybody can hear the answer. >> And I I just wanted to go back to um Tim with the the budget restoration because I think this is a delicate balance when we're answering all of these questions about restoration versus actual expenditures. And um I think this is demonstrated better in some questions that I answered than others. But there is a real um tension between what we have expended in 2425 and what we will expend this year um and the pressure that's going to put on next year's budget. So the most recent example I can think

086of this is a conversation I had this morning about snow. We budgeted $170,000 for districtwide snow removal. Um we're slated if we continue to have the snow, we're going to have $300,000 worth of snow removal. >> Is there a way to mitigate snow removal? Sure. you could stop, you know, plowing and for events and practices and things on weekends and just plow right before school starts, but that would definitely be a disservice to our community and our kids. Um, so there's always ways to, you know, cut things down, but the the service that we would see um would be marketkedly different. So, you know, those are some of the expenditure balancing we're doing, not just budget restoration, but actual expenditures. >> Yeah. Thank you. Mhm. >> Um Emily, one more on the state partnership plan.

087I know there was going to be a conversation among superintendents. I again I don't know if that's anything that can be realized this year. It's probably many >> Yeah. So there is some follow-up we need to do. We um went to a meeting and got to meet with the state controller and his uh I cannot remember the man's title, but he's the math guy and he can get us information about what our premium would look like. So we just need to reach out and see what that would look like. Uh benefits of the state partnership plan. It's a HMO PO fully funded plan. You don't need stop loss on it. Um, but when we've run numbers in the past, it just hasn't been, but that is some followup to do. So, I don't know what

088the timeline is, but >> the analysis you did not make it seem favorable, but I don't know. Again, more people >> always worth exploring more and we are going to >> um is there benefit to I'm not done yet. [laughter] >> Sorry. Is there a benefit to I the STEM coordinator? I'm a big proponent for I again I know it may not be achievable. I think it's really needed and relevant. Is there value in a 0.5, you know, halftime or is it, you know, kind of that wouldn't make sense. We should it should be full I don't know. Is it a anything's better than nothing kind of situation or >> I mean I think we're at the point where we explore all options, but I don't I don't obviously point >> it's a good talking

089point. It's a good thing for consideration. My thoughts on that probably would be we're not talking about never having the STEM coordinator position. We're talking about not having it next year. >> Yeah. But next year becomes next year becomes next year. >> It was it was in last year's budget too before we to we had we felt we needed to take it out. >> Um but I you know it's not a forever thing. It's a >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What can we do for this for the budget for next year? >> Yeah. And then outplacement of course is like inconceivably expensive. Like I can't get my head wrapped around how much it is. I know there's nothing we can do like in this group about it. Um I just there's got to be some relief

090somewhere. There has to be something assistance from the state. There's just more to be done and it's it it can't it's it's I don't know. It has something has to be done. I know it's not us, but it it's scary how expensive it is and all the good work we do here to accommodate the students that we do have and that we can. And I just Yeah, it's it's unfathomable. >> I'm done now. [laughter] >> No, but Tim was next. >> Oh, >> are you sure? >> Go ahead, Tim. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Yeah, I just want to I just want to clarify my comments from a little bit before because I do think that um I do think this 9% number is really big and I see the recommendation from the superintendent includes

091uh an elimination. I'm assuming not of layoffs. These are this is the five elementary classroom teachers are all new hires. No layoffs. Um, yeah. So, I don't really want to see them eliminated because our population is growing. Um, but when I take it from a slightly different perspective of saying it's 18.7 kids in the classroom versus 19.5 kids in the classroom directionally, I don't want to go in that direction of increasing classroom sizes every year. Absolutely not. um in the here and now if we didn't add the five elementary classroom teachers next year in the budget um or a number less than that the difference of having 19 kids in your classroom versus 20. I get it. My kids are both in elementary school right now. But the budget spending and taxes are part of

092the equation. It's really more for the council than for us. But just I'm acknowledging it and if we don't have those five new classroom teachers, I'm confident our school system would still work well next year. Um and like I said, for me it's it's the bigger question is directionally year-over-year. I don't want to go down that path of um increasing class sizes. But for next year, it's something that um I would definitely be open to considering. That's it. >> But I think it's a pattern that we've already established. That's my concern, Tim. Right. And the other piece of this is, you know, we're also asking to fold in the half team from Dodd. So, I'm just I'm trying to figure out where and and you know, Miss Lano, I believe we can reimagine the allocations

093afterwards, but I I just feel like we need to figure out what, you know, is a comfortable percentage that we're willing to accept right now. And there are so many variables. We don't know what the retirement's going to look like until April 1st. there is a potential with all the conversations about ECS and special ed that it may fall in our favor. That's another, you know, I I I want to try to stay positive because we want to fold in some of these other requests. So, but we need to figure out where we're willing to kind of, >> you know, >> I do >> go ahead. So, just on the point that you made about not knowing where the funding will fall, >> um, >> of the different funding sources, the single biggest one is

094ECS. >> Yes. >> Whether that goes up or down, that goes to the town council and it's independent of what the council gives us for a budget. Are there any grants like excess costs or anything like that that fall outside the council purview and just come directly to us? >> That's all in taken into account though in our budget, in our operating budget. So it it all goes it all goes through the town. There's no >> it goes to the town, but it's it's a line item. Am I correct? It's it's taken into account in our budget in our operating budget. >> Yeah. That nine. >> Yeah. I would say it's taken into account like there I know that this was a little while back, but like in if we didn't have revenue and grants,

095how much extra we'd need to be asking for in our budget to to make up for that. And it's about $12 million. Yeah. >> But yes, it goes to the >> There's there's so there's no there's no grants that come directly to the school system. It all goes to the council. >> Yeah. Right. Like IDEIDA, we we allocate and come to us. But >> Yes. >> Correct. >> So I'm just curious if IDEIDA goes up on August 1st for whatever reason, does that money come to the schools or go to the council? >> Yes. >> So there are some. Okay. So that actually does could potentially have an impact on >> Yeah. >> our budget. Okay. Because most of it goes through the council, the ECS money. >> IDA comes to the school system. >>

096Title one, title two, title uh three, title four are all things that come to us that we that we directly manage. And most of those things pay for staffing, some pay for training, some they you know they defay the cost to the tune of I think Emily just said $12 million >> as compared to as compared to the ECS which goes to the council and the council votes on a budget and gives it to us. So if ECS goes up or down that's that's something the council deals with is the point >> as compared to some other grants smaller grants but still okay. So it does have it does have a real impact what you were saying. I was just trying to understand that. >> Yeah. And what I would say is like in the

097um if you go to the grants section of the budget book the it's very incremental increases for title one IDEIDA um like for example title one was estimated this year at 117682 um and next year estimated 13546 IDA part B is 1.1 million um and we're actually estimating a tiny $1,000 less next year so they're very very small I mean ECS is a lot larger and that's not coming to us. >> Yeah. >> And excess cost. Yes. >> Okay. So, all right. Understood. Federal versus the state. Okay. >> And don't forget last year we had [snorts] issues with federal grants. We had so much uncertainty too. That's you know >> that we just found out in our last and we still do right. >> Nothing changed, >> right? So I I I think we can't

098rely on that either, you know. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. I do have um a question. I don't anybody happens to know this. Marlene probably uh because you had mentioned I mentioned the direction before about classroom sizes. Um where were we over the last say four, five, six years in terms of class size? Have we changed? Were we below 18 kids per class say in the elementary school? Is it is it in the budget book? >> I believe it is. But we we've stayed at around that 18.3 18.7 18.9. we we really hover around there, but as you know, like we didn't hire any new teachers this year, and I'm sure the kindergarten teachers at Dittle could talk to us about that. So, we do we've tried to keep it pretty steady. We we look to

099keep our K3 numbers a little smaller than our 456. What page? >> Yeah, absolutely. I I totally support that and appreciate that. So yeah, 2025 it was 19. The following year is 18.8 18.7 18.8 18.7 17.8 17.9. It gives you like the last since 19 um 2019 2020 and it's in the enrollment portion of the book. >> Thank thank you. I'll take a look for it now. >> Absolutely. So, just looking at the budget considerations that the superintendent sent us to look at tonight, that's about 1.1 million. If we agree or are we comfortable with that amount of um trimming the budget, that would put us at a 7.73% with a message to the superintendent that he's going to have to look at other line items, some that Matt has put forward. Um because if

100we keep all of the staff and we have said we want to keep some of it um that staff and I added all of them and we've had a lot of um discussion around the AP and extra AP maybe not STEM coordinator maybe putting off everyone else is an ele is a classroom teacher. If we add more classroom teachers, we're going to need more art, music, and PE because each of those classrooms students will need those subjects. And if we have an increase in students, our increase of multilingual kids will probably be that.5. So anyways, if we take all of those out, it's $979,000. So that's about a million dollar. So, he's going to have to look at trimming a million dollars in other places. I mean, is that what we're saying? Because I think

101we need to come up with something tonight >> as to what direction we want to go in. >> Here's what I would say. I am not comfortable with with what Superintendent Soulen gave us as budget considerations because it goes against everything in my fiber to be taking classroom teachers out of the mix for um making this balance uh this budget come down. I we just have to look at other areas. I know we're strapped. that that's taken out these two, >> but we need to also add the 170,000 for the half team at DOD. In my opinion, I'm more comfortable going back to the budget levels that the board of ed approved. Matt, you said that was 1.5 million. Yeah, that would be a [clears throat] 1.5 million difference from the proposed budget right now.

102Um, >> what does that take us? What number does that give us? >> Oh, from 8.8 to 7.3. >> Yeah. and that with this stipulation that we need to take that money and put and cut it from every other line item besides the teachers. I'm really uncomfortable with the rate at which we are adding students that our student enrollment is going up up and up and we're saying yeah but we don't need to add teachers even though our student population is exploding in the elementary schools but that's all happening to Dodd next and then down the road that goes to the high school. Um and Dodd is already overfeing in my estimation um and needs that half team so that by the year after next we get to a full team at Dodd while that

103this exploding enrollment in the elementary schools is going to be moving into DOD. Matt, does a 7.3 include the new teachers? >> Uh, it includes restoring the teacher budget to the requested amounts last year. So, board of ed approved $39.2 million. Town council reduced it by $435,000. >> Hiring. Marlene, do you remember? >> We did not hire additional elementary teachers. >> And we wanted to hire how many? >> I would have to go back last year. >> Yeah. Yeah. Last year. >> I can't remember. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Can I Can I just go back to what you had said earlier? Are you trying to get to a percentage number so that we can take that back and then we can we can work on it? >> Suggesting. I think that's a great suggestion.

104I think it's a good suggestion, too. >> I think Mr. Kalau's suggestion kind of works. Was it 7.3? Matt? >> Uh, yeah, 7.3 or the other approach that Marlene mentioned of, you know, which of these items are not feasible to be capped at the 20%. What would that budget look like? I don't even know where that uh Well, I do. That would land us at five something. So Matt, what was that? 7.3. So what was that? What's the impact then on the present budget? 1 million. >> Do you have that? >> Yeah. 1 point uh approximately $1.5 million. >> 1.5. So then what we are saying to the superintendent is that we want 1.5 removed trimmed from the budget without touching five elementary classroom teachers the specials the.5 ml teacher and the two teachers at

105dot middle school. >> Yes. I mean, as much as >> elementary teachers, could you also play with two or three or four? I mean, I don't know. I'm just I don't know. Does it >> say that again, Heather? >> I know we want to add five elementary school teachers and I'm all for it, but is that like you could add four, you could add three, you know, do we play with because we're she what she just said is don't touch this, but I'm saying is that still a place to >> Yeah, I think um that can certainly be looked at. I know the problem, and Marlene, correct me if I'm wrong, the problem becomes that you get some class sizes bigger >> because of the grade level or it's not even >> it's like the

106population is not evenly spread across. And so to to make it come up >> um ideally equitable, >> but maybe maybe that's worth looking at. But um >> so it's five or zero. I mean, [laughter] >> but if you have, you know, a fourth grade class at one school that's got 25 kids in it and at another school has >> Yeah. >> 19 kids in it. That's >> not equitable, is it? >> Yeah, it's not doesn't seem fair. But it's certainly something that we can have Jeff look at >> at the STEM. >> No, no, no. At the classroom teachers at the elementary level, can we do with four? >> Right. Because we have to keep in mind, so we we're saying we have 300 new students. I'm just going to use that as a

107number. But who went out? Like you know, like we have 300 coming in, but some students may have transferred out. Not a lot do because a lot come here right for the schools. Um but I think at this point we have to analyze all that data that we have so that the class sizes and the amount of teachers that we are adding will make those um class sizes down to 1819. So right now I need for Matt and Mark and myself to come up with the number and the percentage that matches the 7.3 >> like an exact >> I'm I'm happy to do the math for you. Um >> thank you. >> But that's what I was asking. >> I have a couple of questions first for Emily if I may. >> And um Emily

108has it. I think she calculated the 7.3%. >> Yes. >> The um the budget would be um 99,922,388. >> 388. And the reduction from our current proposal would be um1,427,925. >> Say that again. 1,427925. And the P. So, >> and that's a 7.3% exact 7.3 I >> 7.3% increase or a million427925 increase over last >> 1427925. That's the amount to cut from the current superintendent. Yes. So what do what we need for the and and I'm going to come back to your questions. Uh so we need the number an increase of we need the increase over last year's budget >> increase over last year's give me one moment. >> Okay. >> The increase over 93 million124314. What's the Can I see the line? >> And you want the You're saying the dollar value increase because

109it's a 7.3% increase. So you're looking if the for the dollar value of the 7.3 over this current year. There's That's not a dollar value. >> Yeah, we need the dollar amount. >> Yeah, the dollar amount is 6,798,74. >> Give that to me again. Slower 6798074 >> 6798. >> Yes, 074. >> Thank you. Or 7.3%. >> Correct. Okay, Matt, what are your >> uh We're so close. I feel like I should advocate on behalf of all elementary, especially elementary, maybe even middle school students, that we should change that number to 6.7%. It's a joke. Tim reminded me how close we were to 67 there. Um [snorts] Emily, could you speak a little bit uh in more detail on the transportation budget? Um you know, one of the things we heard during redistricting was those district

110options that we evaluated wouldn't have a big impact on the transportation costs. And I have no doubt that that that is true. Um, one question I have for you specifically on that transportation is is taking all of the opt outs, the legacy waiver people, is that part of that math if there are 70, I don't know what the survey would show now, but students that would be in the math for we need to get you from here to your school district, but we know that you're going to be transporting yourself next year to the district that you are wavered into. >> No, this is the most conservative. So, with any of the legacy waivers could potentially lighten that burden. I know we're still um Jeff's still in the process of evaluating the legacy waivers. Um

111just off the top of my head, I know that there was obviously more four to six um grades four to six that were interested in the waiver, but yes, in any scenario that's accounting for asis, no waiverss, how many were slated to go to Barnum, Highland, Norin. >> Okay. and the substantial increase in special ed transportation half a million dollars. >> Yeah, I think it's like 383. >> I mean, is that enrollment driven? Is that >> Yeah. >> You know, you know, one of the things I see in these questions that we've asked and and maybe this is a change for next year's when I go through the summary of accounts, we have last year's budgeted and the projection for that account on every single one of these is exactly what was budgeted last year.

112And some of the answers to these questions are, well, we're we're now we're budgeting because of this number, which is closer to our actuals for this current operating year. And th those two are somewhat mutually exclusive to be spending exactly what we budgeted for, but then also budgeting more next year because of actuals. And so like that was a surprise to me on some of these answers that oh well we're increasing this by I don't pick a number $30,000 to be closer to actual when the projected for that item is last year's budget in the book. Does that make sense? >> Um let me just make sure I'm repeating this back correctly. So I tried to include in some of these answers some I think it was more clearly articulated than others actual expenditures for

1132425 um and tried to include the budget projection for the following year because I don't think that it's you know 2425 was a year ago so some of those costs have increased um but it is kind of a that's where it becomes a little bit of an art because we're looking at the actual expenditures the amount we projected that we were going to spend based on the prior year. Um and so for example with the sped transportation what we did this year is we actually looked at all of the outplacement in the list and what their current transportation needs were um and the some of them have had changing transportation needs monitors need to be in single ride vans um and incorporated that into the budget for next year. So, and then um you know,

114I know that there's naturally a tendency to say, look, there's this is a massive budget. We need to take the biggest items. And unfortunately, some of those biggest items are our hands are tied by the state, by mandate, by policy, whatever it is. Um while sitting here, I came up with three that I would ask for more information on or, you know, just open a discussion on on what the rest of my colleagues think about these things. Um, if you look across the the room over there, there's a [clears throat] bunch of folded up tables. Uh, there's $40,000 in the budget to replace those. So, after this meeting, I'm going to go over there and take a look and probably fold some up and fold some down and and see is that a nice to

115have? Is is there a safety issue with that? I don't know the answers to these questions, but you know, if we find enough $40,000 items in here, we can pay for half teams of of teachers. Um, Marlene, I know you brought this one up uh during your workshop, the the handcoring versus the K12 software, right, where they are handcoring now. Um, you know, that software to get away from that is $56,000. Um, and then I don't know the answer to this one, but I think this line item is central office is what the CO would stand for. Um, CO new equipment for $48,000. I asked that question pretty late in the game, but do you have any knowledge of what that $50,000 is for central office equipment? Yeah, let me just >> And I bring

116these three up, not to pick on them, but there's our $150,000 for a half team at at DOB, right? Like if if that's what we want. I do want to just respond to, you know, just for efficiency sake, Matt, I feel as though if we're eliminating a platform that allows us to obtain the information with um you know, as close to 100% accuracy as possible. And now you're kind of taxing now you're taxing the human capacity, right? You're taking away somebody that could be supporting a student to now have to score an assessment for whatever duration of time. So I just want to be cautious in that line. That's all. >> Yeah. I I [clears throat] don't bring that up as I've got my target set on it. I bring it up as well that's

117the way we have been doing it, right? So if we needed to do it for one more year until the grand list revenue comes in. Um yeah, I mean this this is why I look at these items uh in the detail that I look at. Yeah, Matt, let me get back to you. I'm just looking. Do you remember what account number this was? Because I'm going through and I'm >> for which one? >> For the central office, the $40,000. >> 731. Okay, let me get back to you on that one because I have the $40,000 for Dodd, but must have missed the seven that question. >> Okay, so um can I just say I think we have our marching orders moving forward. Um, but I would like to entertain a motion to move something to

118the full board so that we can have further discussion. Also give Jeff and crew because I know that you all are involved in in anything that we uh assign Jeff to look at. um give you sort of an idea of what we would prefer not to have in the budget as to what we do prefer. Uh putting those that half team at DOD for the eighth grade is something that we want. Um and we want the elementary classroom teachers, but could we do with four instead of five? Would that really make a difference or would it re really not make a difference? >> And then um where else besides what directly uh touches the students can we pull some money to get to this this level? So that all needs to be done and then

119discussed further at Thursday night's meeting >> which is going to be a late meeting I suppose. Does that sound like the way to to go move forward from tonight? >> Yep. >> So, with that, I will entertain a motion. I move that the finance committee submit to the full board of education a proposed budget for the fiscal year 20 2026 2027 of 99,922,388, an increase of $6,798,74 or 7.3% over the current year's budget. >> A second. >> I have a second. All those in favor? It's unanimous. We will have further discussion on this um Thursday night. Thank you so much everyone and thank you Arlene and Emily for standing in and fielding our questions. Could >> you just clarif clarify for the public? Um we have a meeting on Thursday. Do we have a follow-on

120meeting? I'm just sort of hesitant that we have a vote on Thursday night. >> I think we probably need to What's our deadline? >> Th Thursday. No, no, 29th. >> No, 29th. >> The 29th. Following Thursday. >> The following Thursday. >> Okay. So, there just to be clear on it, we have a meeting on Thursday and >> there is a reasonable chance that we'll have another meeting after that for a vote. >> It would be >> it could happen on Thursday or it could have Okay, my just my own feeling is it probably I don't think I'll really want to vote on something on Thursday night. >> Just Okay, Thursday. >> Just so people watching in TV land are aware. Okay, we are >> we just voted to adjourn, right? >> We're adjourned. Thank you

121everyone for Thank you.