Policy Committee 11-15-22

001okay uh good evening everyone we're going to call this uh policy meeting to order November 15 2022. um roll call please here Mr White is coming here thank you all right to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all foreign public comment this evening okay I did receive uh one correspondence that was asked to be um made public comment it's uh it's quite lengthy so bear with me as I I read through it uh if a company this is a uh from Mr Michael Sheehan um and it was addressed uh knowing that we would have legal counsel here this evening and you know these are public comment I know some things will be addressed through uh

002Rebecca's presentation and overview and we can follow up on anything that may not have been directly touched upon so one if a company states its product is intended for 13 plus can a teacher use this product in a class with children that can range in age from 11 to 13 without parental Guardian knowledge or permission for example Dodd Middle School is showing is using CNN news app called CNN plus to show news Clips to students CNN stayed on its website the app is intended for 13 plus our dad teachers allowed to use this app and show the news clip to students without parental Guardian knowledge and permission to our teachers allowed to inquire or solicit information from students about their gender identity or sexual orientation if so at what age is this permission permissible for

003example I believe a seventh grade teacher sent out a survey to their students asking them their preferred pronouns is a teacher allowed to do this if yes what age is the teacher allowed to ask a student about a student's gender identity or sexual preference a if a response to a student survey written or verbal a biological male has to be called she her and asked that to be hidden from their parents Guardians can a teacher deny this knowledge to a parent Guardian even if asked directly by said parent Guardian I if this knowledge could be hidden by the teacher or school from parent Guardian is this age specific I I would a policy that stated a teacher may not solicit or inquire about a student's gender identity or sexual preference in K-12 without parental Guardian

004knowledge and consent be permissible within state and federal law I I I if a student voluntarily informs School Personnel of their sexual preference or gender identity can school Personnel hide this information discussion from parent gardening if asked by student not to divulge that information even if a parent Guardian directly asks who personality Personnel about these discussions I I won if yes at what age can this be hidden from parent Guardian is a hypothetical if a fourth grade biological female asked a teacher to call her he him and ask that information to be hidden from parent Guardian most the School honor that request if a student uh three if a student sought gender affirming care from school personnel and asked that their parent Guardian not be notified can this care be provided by school Personnel without

005parental Guardian knowledge and permission the AAP describes this process of gender affirmation in five components sexual affirmation puberty blockers uh cross sex hormone hormone therapy gender affirming surgeries and legal affirmation social is I social affirmation is defined as adopting gender affirming hairstyles clothing name gender pronouns and restrooms and other facilities by the American Academy of pediatrics at AP I I if a student asks to be called a pronoun that does not align with their biological sex at Birth and or asked to use the facilities including locker rooms that are not aligned to their biological sex can this request be slash practice be hidden from parent Guardian at the discretion of the student and school is this discretion age specific based on answers to proceeding questions can you confirm that gender affirming care can be provided

006by school Personnel without parental Guardian knowledge or consent if yes at what age four if on-site behavioral treatment centers are adopted by a school can the school suggest and a student attend therapy sessions by enlightened licensed professionals while at school to treat depression anxiety gender dysphoria or any other ailment without parental knowledge or consent if yes is this age specific and can multiple therapy sessions take place over an infinite period without parental knowledge or consent that's uh that parent comment thank you sure is there any other comment via email no okay so that's it um so um is there any comment uh the reason we had the uh meeting in person this evening is to allow the public to come and give comment if they wish um the way we do that here in subcommittee

007it's a little different than uh at a traditional board meeting uh you can give public comment um you can also ask a question but we will not respond to the question um being being the potential nature of the question uh we will note the question and then um respond either in writing uh or we can also respond to that question at the next board meeting so um is there anyone um in the audience this evening who would like to make a public comment or ask a question before we move on from public comment s okay uh seeing none um we'll move on uh to our discussion uh with our attorney attorney I'll say I'll just say Rebecca Rebecca Goldberg um and she's going to be reviewing um uh I guess and give us an overview

008of the law for gender identity as well as nepotism are well yeah we'll probably approach both yeah I'll start with gender identity yeah because that's the more um expansive topic for sure all right well thank you for inviting me this evening um the I just want to give a really broad overview of the legal landscape that we're going to be um considering as policies and practices are considered um within the district as it relates to students who may be transgender or otherwise of a gender minority um there are laws in uh that apply on the state level as well as on the federal level and the primary concept that's going to govern in these situations is the concept of non-discrimination so um in the federal law there is a law called Title Nine that requires

009that recipients of um Federal funding with respect to education do not discriminate on the basis of sex the there was a Supreme Court decision with respect to an employment law Title VII that stated that sex includes Concepts like gender identity and sexual orientation um there was a recognition based on the reasoning of that Supreme Court decision that it would Title IX would be treated no differently when it says sex that the exact legal reasoning that made the Supreme Court determined that sex and Title VII included these other Concepts that may fall within the concept of sex would likewise Supply to Title IX and the U.S Department of Education promptly put out a statement recognizing that so when we look at Title IX and the requirements that we not discriminate against an individual in the school

010setting on the basis of sex that includes gender identity and that includes sexual orientation um we are focusing a lot today on student issues but I do want to know that Title IX and Title VII both apply to employees Title Nine advice to students as well whereas Channel 7 does not so um if you had a situation involving an employee who was um transgender who would be barred by two federal laws at least from discriminating against the individual on that basis when we look at the Connecticut state laws some of the applicable laws are um law 10-15c which basically says we don't discriminate on the basis of race color sex it's specifically identifies gender identity or expression religion National orientation or sexual orientation um so that's an applicable law here in Connecticut with respect to

011um to students uh there's another law that um in 46a-58 with respect to um denying a person the privileges and immunities of being a citizen of the United States we can't deny them their rights on the basis of various protected classes again it lists sex gender identity or expression and sexual orientation along with several other statuses uh there's another law 46a-64 which is enforced through the commission on human rights and opportunities um and it relates to public accommodation so you know you think a restaurant or a movie theater but um it's also been applied to the school setting um and that law says that we cannot discriminate segregate or separate individuals on the basis of various classes which again includes sex gender identity or expression um and so and then we have Title IX which

012um you know I referenced before so that's kind of the key legal landscape for how we look at these issues and they all boil down to a single theme of we're not going to discriminate against an individual on the basis of their sex or sexual orientation if you were to look at how that gets interpreted both by the agencies that enforce these laws um and by Court decisions that may you know it may be an employment case as opposed to a school case but the concepts are very very interchangeable in this area we see that there are certain things that emerge that are relevant to what we are talking about here and for example issues about bathroom use issues about pronoun use it pretty much all comes out to say if you don't allow the

013person to use the pronouns or the bathroom or the locker room that is consistent with their gender identity then you are discriminating against them on the basis of sex and or gender identity so there's a pretty clear concept here for what we are supposed to do when it comes to these matters um when it comes to you know their their questions when you're dealing with the student world you know what about the parents what if the parents you know look if the parents say my child uh who was their sex sign at Birth was male and they identify as female I want you to use female pronouns and the kid says I want to use female pronouns and everyone's on the same page it does not pose very much of an issue uh the issue

014tends to be more when there's some kind of disagreement um the agencies that enforce these laws have made very clear that the requirement to is to follow the students lead in those situations and because of that the um because we cannot discriminate if this will be discrimination then it then we would be discriminating because the parent asked us to essentially so we are not permitted to accept that option um so that's kind of the the legal landscape and if you have those principles in mind many of the applications become pretty clear what you're supposed to do now every factual scenario is different and I want to really drive that point home I'm an attorney they always say the classic answer to every legal question is it depends right um so I can't you know say

015well in this case it's definitely always going to be this way there may be specific factors that make us want to do something a particular way uh situations where we need to be particularly careful and kind of walk on a tightrope between different um legal requirements and so you know always when we're confronting a situation in real life that it's a good time to call Council if it's not established by a clear legal principle um so what I wanted to do first now that I've set out what the applicable laws are is um I did get the parent comments in advance that were um submitted and I I did prepare a response to it I'm not going to be as specific and as detailed in terms of her response for the reason I just stated

016I can't speak to you know the specific content that may be displayed on the CNN app for example there may be certain circumstances where the content is plainly inappropriate for a middle school classroom and there may be certain situations where it is plainly appropriate for a middle school classroom the the fact that the they Market the app is for 13 and up does not really determine that so I'm not going to get as specific as all of them this is the extent to which I am comfortable responding to those questions um and I'm glad that I got them in advance so I can think through them and give kind of the best answer I can and so I I wrote it out and I'd like to share um that so um again for most situations

017are fact specific it's difficult to provide an opinion in a vacuum based on hypothetical scenarios but here are some general information that would tend to resolve these questions um so generally we think about academic freedom non-discrimination and any specifical specific applicable laws or policies when considering the kinds of situations that were raised academic freedom includes the right of teachers to decide how to teach within certain bounds such as state and District curriculum standards there is no requirement for parents to be told about teaching methods or materials used or for consent to be given for any particular instruction there are no minimum ages for any particular content even if content is marketed as being appropriate for a certain age of course teachers use judgment to select supplemental material for their classes there there are certain very

018specific situations in which a parent can opt out of certain instruction um such as units on dissection or family life education programs but there is no General right to consent or opt out of construction um districts are required so that that kind of addresses the issue about what's going on in the classroom and how um you know the the use of con specific content and whether it's age-appropriate um turning to the issue about students requests in terms of gender identity um so districts are required by law to follow the students requests in terms of gender identity such as pronoun use even if the parents do not agree um if the parents do not know the general approach is to work with the child in a counseling setting to help the child make a decision about

019disclosure to the parents uh School Personnel are not required by law to disclose this information to parents even if asked educational records must be provided in accordance with FERPA and if the educational record reveals this information it may then end up being disclosed um there there were questions um raised about uh teachers asking questions of students regarding their sexual and identity sexual orientation or gender identity through surveys there's no law that prohibits teachers from administering surveys that might ask about things like pronouns or gender identity there's no minimum age um students should be free not to answer questions they do not wish to respond to on these subjects and the responses must never be used to discriminate against a student based on any protected staff um and finally with regard to the there were some

020questions about uh counseling and the use of school counselors and with regard to those questions the district is not required to notify parents about school-based counseling generally the counseling relationship is confidential subject to certain exceptions about abuse risk of harm to others Etc a student may discuss issues about gender expression such as clothing pronouns Etc with their school counselor just as they may discuss any matter um at times with the students agreement a conversation may be had with the counselor the student and the parent to address certain issues um there was the final question that was asked was about on-site behavioral treatment centers and since Cheshire Public Schools does not have on-site behavioral treatment centers I'm not going to be addressing questions about that topic um so that is my response um to the questions

021that were submitted um you know obviously if specific scenarios come up and the board would like me to render an opinion on a specific situation or um the superintendent contacts me because there is a specific situation that is occurring you know that's when I'm able to best give it advice that is targeted to the situation thank you yeah the technically you mentioned behavioral treatment centers yes I don't have the I don't have the questions in front of me is that there was a list that uh that Mike writer of the email he mentioned and the first thing looked to me like it was kind of like a behavior and the second thing was puberty blockers which I've heard of and there are a couple more things but when I when I hear the phrase puberty

022blockers I think of like a like some sort of drug or treatment is that the case we don't do that yeah okay okay let me let me clarify that based on the structure of the letter as I understand oh sure so there was a point about how the AAP um presumably referring to the American Academy of Pediatrics refers to uh what is um labeled as a term of Art in the medical field now as gender affirming care and within that um he States and I I have not specifically gone to the American Academy of Pediatrics definitions um that's you know not a legal concept um but he states that there are five components to gender affirmation um social affirmation puberty blockers cross-sex hormone therapy and gender affirming surgeries and legal affirmation he then focuses in

023on social affirmation in terms of issues related to hairstyle clothing locker room use and saying hey is Cheshire Public Schools engaging in gender affirming care presumably when it does things like allow a student to use a locker room that is not um for the sex that was the students that's assigned at Birth um so you know I don't think the label matters I don't think that Cheshire Public Schools is providing care in the sense of clinical care that the American Academy of Pediatrics would be describing I think that that label is really specific to providing care in clinical settings so when you say oh it's okay if you cut your hair this way or wear your hair that way I don't think that that now transforms you into a provider of gender learning care I

024think that's what the particular references the that was part of number three in the list of questions number four specifically dealt with behavioral treatment centers which my understanding is that is a specific model of establishing um like actual mental health clinics in connection with the school and that is not something that you have in Cheshire so um I did not delve into movies so just a general question do we do we distribute any sort of drugs to kids besides like Tylenol without like some sort of rental notice or just in general we don't even distribute Tylenol without parental yeah yeah so that's usually written in order by The Physician the child's pediatrician oh you so I don't even I mean I've got anything that we distribute is you know parental if it's over the counter

025we can get parental permission but if it's a prescription then it would be I think I do get I have gotten call this is the school nurse though yeah so yeah okay so thank you for that sure and medication policy um tonight as well so um part of that um I did also get asked um earlier um regarding you know okay so let's say a parent I'm sorry let's say a teacher does give out one of these surveys and you know a student who um you know presents with um apparently in accordance with the particular gender is asking to use different pronouns or it doesn't match up to their official record you know something that kind of triggers hey there might be um a situation here where the student is transgender we're not see around

026whether the parent is in the loop on this or not what you know how do we handle that um so in line with these overarching principles um you know my advice on that is to um have the teacher speak to the child if appropriate the school counselor um can be present for that discussion as well um let the child know that the goal is to support the child and um you know see what the student might need does the student have concerns that they're being bullied does a student you know have concerns about which bathroom they're supposed to use work those situations out um with the student um in this context in this context it is appropriate to find out you know if it's not clear that the parents know you know the parents haven't

027kind of been um you know out front of this issue um you can you know the teacher can ask um the chat the child um whether their parents know about their desire to use this other name or to use different pronouns um you know and what did your what you're going to say if the parent says their child doesn't know the teacher can indicate a desire to talk to the parents about this issue and figure out how to best support the child if the child is saying I don't want that and I'm scared of that that's going to cause a problem for me um you know in that situation that's the time to really come to council because that's when we have to look at the various factors like I said it's all very easy

028when parent and child and school are on the same page when where it gets more complicated um is in those situations and that's where we might look at things you know like the age of the childhood what is what what's the child saying is the child saying something like my parents will literally kill me you know do we have concern about the student safety we have to make a very informed case specific Judgment at that time in the law on this is very very far from clear as to um you know there's there's a whole you know there's discussion on you know essentially outing the child to their parents um so I can't just give you a one-size-fits-all answer at this time it's a very um a very tricky issue um with that said I

029would like do you have a question I just want if you can clarify Rebecca um what this might be a hypothetical but it has happened um what if the teacher does disclose sensitive information I would assume that falls in the first book guidance it it just goes into the parent or yeah if they disclose it to a parent um the concern is less about FERPA because um the parent has the right to information that's in the educational record um the concern is more about essentially a common law privacy right so there are some cases none of them decisively resolve this issue uh and then from other jurisdictions but there are cases where you know a school official or other public official has essentially like I said outed the child to their parent um and then

030you know subsequent claims for invasion of privacy and looking at you know the whole picture there but there is no um clear legal guidance and of course we you know we don't want to cause harm to a child we also don't want to cause harm to the parent-child relationship um and we want to Value the parent relationship which is why to the extent that it is feasible and um safe to do so and and it can be done with the child's um a senate what we would want to have happen in the ideal situation like this is that maybe the child is reluctant they explain why they're reluctant you know with a guy with a school counselor's support we call you know the parents in to have a really good supportive conversation about how to

031support the child that's the ideal situation of course it doesn't always work out that way but you know a lot of times um it's about bringing the parent into the picture in a way that is um that feels safe for the child and that doesn't make the child feel like they cannot no longer Trust the counselor um and it's all in the context of trying to work together to um to help the student I do think that in no circumstance would I recommend um telling a child's parents something that they have chosen not to tell them without at least the child knowing that that's going to happen whether the child is going to a center or not is a separate question but certainly you don't want to keep coming home from school and being shocked

032to know that their parents have learned something that maybe they have taken pains not to share yes so um one of the reasons why you're here tonight is because we've had a lot of it really didn't begin with transgender issues it began with Title IX and how to decipher Title IX in the in the realm of uh sexual harassment I guess and so Title IX at least you could say lays out certain steps that have to occur in order to investigate those incidents um in this case it's sounding like the school system must protect the minor from discussing a in very important life issue with their parents if or not protecting the child from not discussing an issue that they don't want to discuss with their parents which could very much um invite you know

033involve the parents guidance right they may the parent may want to give guidance but they're not being enough not given an opportunity to because a child was a minor is making a decision like that right and the school is protecting that minor who may not be capable of making a decision like that and we are protecting that child and and encouraging them to maybe uh make or not make that decision even though they may not be capable of making that decision so so just with that being said you mentioned something about counseling and then uh and then a child almost kind of going through these steps without the teacher and then the counseling to potentially even encourage the student to speak to the parents and what if the student becomes so fearful of facing that

034issue with the student with their parents that they commit self-harm what happens so we have to always be balancing all the risks which is why there is no one-size-fits-all solution there are many many things that students who may not want their parents to know you know Dad wants me to go to Harvard I want to go to Princeton I don't want to break his heart and tell him you know in a situation like that I think there's probably less pressure to feel like we have to go you know that came out in the counseling relationship less pressure I feel like hey we've got to go tell the address right but nonetheless that's a secret the child is keeping um but we are also keeping it that's correct and and there's no affirmative obligation for you

035to call Dad and say Hey Dad she wants to go to Princeton on Harvard right um so we have to look again into balancing the factors you you have to let parents know you know if there's a situation where the child is going to harm themselves right you have you acknowledge that this kid is you know they're saying I am going to commit self-harm or I'm going to harm myself or someone else um obviously those are situations where you're a very specific protocols on what you need to do right these other situations where the risk is maybe more theoretical which is not to say not real but to say that um it hasn't been expressed it is a possibility right um in those situations it's very very fact specific um is you know but our

036responsibility is foremost protection protection of the students health and safety um we we cannot discriminate we don't have an obligation to share information receives in counseling with a student's parents and we have to consider when deciding whether a disclosure May nonetheless be appropriate or necessary um the all kinds of um information we have to consider whether in fact the the disclosure might in and of itself become a timeline uh violation we're now um you know this student is seeking counseling and we are creating a difficult situation for them surely disclosure of someone other than the parents um runs into that issue uh you raised Title Nine and it's specific procedural requirements and I will say that that is a particular investigative protocol that relates to conduct occurring in the educational program or activity that could

037constitute um sexual harassment um as specifically defined within the law so I you know I think that that particular issue doesn't necessarily come up in the context that we're discussing at the moment where you might have an issue is if you have let's say students harassing a student for being transgender then we would be following that Title IX protocol which if you're going to be at the cape caps convention on Friday by any chance um my colleague Carolyn Dugas and I will be co-presenting on that specific protocol and what boards need to consider with that but aside from that specific sexual harassment investigation protocol there is um the general overarching prohibition against sex discrimination you know the stuff that applies to sports the stuff that applies to pregnant students being able to remain in class

038all of that also falls under the irrelevant Title IX and so that's where like the locker room things um come into play it's not necessarily about harassment but about the ability to go to use the facilities in accordance with that student's sex which is defined to include their gender identity and um so just to kind of I guess uh unless you have other questions okay so I'll say it's one more thing it's just that well to almost bring this to a name um everything that you've discussed here this evening is derived from federal and or state law right and if a if a teacher or a counselor or any school administrator or Personnel were to divulge that type of information without the student's consent would that be a violation of those laws like I said

039it how much are a common law theory of innovation of privacy which invasion of privacy isn't just looking into a private matter but also disclosure information um certainly you know you can imagine that um if I knew your um you know your personal um information regarding these matters and I put it up on a billboard um that that would be um an invasion of privacy the question is does publication to a student's parents count and that's where I mentioned there were court cases from other jurisdictions but nothing definitively answers it so no I will not I will not say that if it is divulged without the student's Ascent it is a to the parent that that is a violation I'm saying that's the the really big open question in the law but that generally speaking

040there were questions raised about do we have to notify parents when their child sees the school counselor no do we need to notify um parents you know about matters discussed in counseling no but there may be situations where it becomes appropriate to do so either with or without the students willingness um the clear-cut ones are you know child abuse you have to make your your mandated report you have to make a report um the the you know the kid says I'm going to blow up the school risk yourself for others you yeah but it's some of these other issues that are far less clear and where it really does require a fact um specific analysis and any very careful legal decision that will probably say you know something along the lines of the law in

041this area is very murky but under these specific situations you know this appears to be the safer course of action you know and that's really the bottom line you know unfortunately the law is rarely as black and white as we would like it to be um what I um if I can begin to Pivot toward the policy um the perp you know you're not required by law to have a policy on transgender students um Keith has recommended um a policy uh and I think that it can be appropriate to have a policy on transgender students in order to provide some guidance here we're having this dialogue we're having this q a when a teacher is faced with this situation or a student says I want to use this locker room or you know a parent

042objects to something that is another student's right we want to have um the policy to say this this is the policy so that the parts of the law that are clear we can kind of encode in policy so that we're clear that we're following the law people are notified what their expectation is um in these situations and so what I did was I shared um with the superintendent which I understand has been passed along with to uh the committee here um about a few sample policies from Kate there's one that is kind of their own crafting and then there's some that they borrowed Concepts from other states um and then there's one that was created by a colleague of mine they all have essentially the same information in them so I'm going to take you

043through that first cave one in in some detail if you would like me to um and what I um and what it has um the first three pages of it it actually includes um some general commentary and introductions the concept um which can be very helpful to understanding it um no uh the yellow packet is um Connecticut state kind of education guidance um it's this packet here if you have that okay yeah the question yeah yeah okay oh yeah so we move on go ahead yeah yeah so just I just want to be clear on this so if I'm if I say I'm a woman am I a woman according to the transgender policy I am your policy is not going to decide that question well of course no not forget about policy the law

044like is that do I say that it's my opinion and therefore it's that's the way the law works so the wave of law works is it recognizes the student's um gender identity or expression which constellation of factors right okay so you know I'm female I identify as female I say okay from now on I'm a man with kind of nothing around that I'm just saying it yeah um that's not my gender identity so I don't have rights to not be discriminated against based on my male gender identity when I do not have a male gender identity right um but for students who do have um either a different gender identity and also remember encapsulates gender expression which is a much broader concept um so the way a student um or an individual presents their gender

045is a is protected as well you know if I um only shop in the men's section um you know I may still identify as female but I have a gender expression that may not be what is traditionally associated with a female that's higher um so you know we're not going to say that you you know if you proclaim a dip you know that you uh identify with a particular gender that that is automatically the end-all be-all for all legal purposes um but within the school setting if you have a gender identity that um is not the gender identity for your sex assigned at Birth and you are going to to therefore want to use facilities that are more consistent with that in these pronouns that are more consistent um with that then that is something

046that we would be obligated to honor so um what I wanted I was gonna mention this as I got a little further in but I'll mention it here as well there is a there's the concept of gender fluidity um so while most individuals who identify um as something other than the sex assigned at Birth will consistently um have a particular identity um so in other words I'm born female and I'm I consistently you might generate sanity as well that's the most common scenario within the realm of gender identity um issues however um we need to be aware of two other Concepts um one is the concept of non-binary and the other is the concept of gender fluidity so when we say non-binary it you know are you male or female I am neither I you

047CA you can't put me in one of those boxes it's like asking me if I'm French or Spanish I'm neither um and so if you that that's someone who's non-binary they identify in some other fashion um or they at least say I can't put myself in one of those two boxes there's a that's non-binary gender fluidity is the concept that we feel we're you know our feelings change on various things from time to time that you know sometimes I feel more like I am a man sometimes I feel more like I'm a woman when I feel that way it is strong it is not oh today I'm a man today I'm a woman but I really truly wake up in the morning and that's the way I feel at that moment and so we need

048to recognize that as well because there is change there's kind of change that may be more gradual as someone is you know thinking through these contents and finding themselves and you know especially as you're thinking about children there are journeys of self-exploration um so sometimes there may be a certain gender fluidity as someone's kind of working it out um and then there's gender fluidity where you know that's the destiny the destination for this person they will always feel that they are sometimes one way and sometimes another way um the reason I mention that is because the policies that have given U.S sample policies I don't feel acknowledged that and um I think that you will run into issues if you um use the policies exactly as written where they say they can use the locker

049room for the gender because that they consistently Express at school that will work you know in the vast majority of cases it'll work for anyone who is not on this um you know transgender Spectrum in any way um it will also work for most people who are transgender but it will not work necessarily for people who identify in a non-binary way or who do not have a consistent gender expression so I think what we want to do in those situations is leave it to a case-by-case basis let them talk to the guidance counselor let them figure out what's going to make the most sense for them um and essentially come up with a plan and that will be the plan um I just don't want to ignore that that is that those two um scenarios

050can exist and then leave you with a policy that says well you use the one that you consistently identify with and they say well I don't I never identify as male or female or well it changes for me very frequently so how are we going to decide um so and you'll see in the um so I'm looking at the cape policy now you'll see it defines some of the key um terminology which you know for a lot of people is new terminology so it's helpful to have you know some sense of the language down the policy is it begin with students at the top yes and it looks just looks like a Word document all right yeah so I'm I'm gonna go through the page one which is the so it has a few pages

051of Preparatory material yes okay um like I said though there's a oh there's going to be a lot of overlap that's why I'm only choosing to go through one um so you know when you look at um gender identity for example you know it's defining that as a person's deeply held sense or psychological knowledge of their own identity so it's not some Whimsical today I'm a man today I'm a woman but it really pertains to something that is um deeply experienced by that individual um so what this policy does is um it sets out some guidelines it starts with definitions um you know you see that you know a term like gender non-conforming for example can relate to someone whose gender expression differs from stereotypes um you know the so-called tomboy right um and that

052a tomboy can be an often is someone who identifies as FEMA right um and we're not saying oh you know the girl who's into traditionally male hobbies and interests now we're going to say they're transgender or anything but they are not conforming to certain stereotypes and they have protections too that's all this is doing that's saying they have protections you're not going to mock that person because of that non-conformity um if I just before we go on the the definitions that are at the beginning are these legal definitions no so there really are not legal definitions for most of these terms I they probably came in collaboration with um groups that work in this particular field I can't speak to where Kate got the definitions for their policy but I will say that as someone

053who has read on this topic um in a variety of different contexts these appear to be appropriate definitions that they don't they're not pushing the envelope in you know in One Direction or the other um that you know we're not they're not going to make suddenly make everybody transgender or make nobody transgender they're really um on target with how these terms are utilized in a variety of contexts whether they be medical legal policy driven and so on um you know if there becomes a particular point that we're looking at a you know there's one word here that I'm not sure about we can always look at that in more detail and see if there's a better choice um so I want to mention here um uh you know so it takes you through kind of

054certain Concepts like I mentioned gender fluid or gender minority uh cisgender so someone who's obsessed as my dead birth matches their gender identity is referred to as cisgender by the way that doesn't mean they're straight right so you have to sometimes their sexual orientation and their gender identity so um we're you can have someone who is cisgender and homosexual for example that is um not inconsistent so when we say cisgender doesn't mean um it doesn't really specify anything about their sexual orientation um when we talk about um gender transition it Embraces a wide variety of topics that um acknowledges just that there are different points if someone is undergoing some kind of gender transition you know I think 20 years ago if you hear gender transition you know you think surgery um and you know

055oh it's a sex change right and the the term gender transition encompasses a wide variety of things from you know I am going to grow my hair out longer to I want to start going by a different name or you know um I want to wear nail polish you know any of these might in depending on the certain the particular context in which it's occurring represent one little piece of inner transition it doesn't you know you can work with nail polish and never change your gender but it may be something that is a piece of that process um and again it's about making sure that a student doesn't get discriminated against because they're doing that so if you have someone who has always presented as male and now they're wearing pink nail polish we're not

056in the 11th of equal leader harassed because of that um bullying the definition of bullying you know in in the Connecticut Law um has been modified and it specifically States now that bullying is any um action that is based on um illegally protected status and so um you know if we see a student mocking another student let's say because of some aspect of a gender transition let's say we that should be triggering our bullying policy as well so we want to always be aware we've got Title IX we've got our policies we've got our conduct we've got bullying uh there's all different um considerations to take at any point um we have a definition of harassment that you know again is just overall consistent um with the law on harassment when it comes to um

057privacy there is a provision um so you know it again it's clear that you know we're not going to go around declaring to the world with someone's gender identity is um but there is a provision in here um that when contacting the parent or guardian of a transgender or gender non-conforming student School Personnel should use the student's legal name and the pronoun corresponding to the students gender assigned at Birth unless the student parent or Guardian has specified otherwise right because it can be directed um by any of those individuals um when it comes to official records there's some different options available um just because of um because it's unclear under Connecticut law about changing these students official record to reflect um a different legal gender without a court order to do so so there are

058options presented for your consideration as to how you would want to handle that situation um when it comes to names and pronouns I think I've been very clear at this point we have to follow what the student um wants so um and I'll note here you know when it says the intentional or persistent refusal to respect the students gender identity for example by referring to them by other pronouns is a violation of this policy Yeah you mentioned before non-binary students so you have he and she she I think x i is a um how does that make sense I'm not trying to be I'm not trying to be difficult but in all seriousness like when you're having a conversation and you refer to they and someone's thinking it's multiple people it's really confusing and you

059aren't as far as I know science still says like an animal or a person is a person and not multiple people so it's really it's really interesting and I will say I was the the kid correcting the other kids on the playground and that I'm taller than him no I'm taller than he okay so I am the the person who sits I'm taller than he is okay so believe me I am the grammar person okay being the grammar person you know and looking at this issue um the their I think even uh Websters may have written about this but the word they has been used in a singular context going back a very long time um you know when you're talking about let's say an unknown person you know who's knocking at the door the

060door I don't know that they should just come in right you know it's let's say you know it's not a person but you know what I'm saying so we um there is precedent for using they to mean singular um grammatically I have wondered myself is it they is or they are when that happens uh the question has been answered by the official grammar authorities uh which of course don't exist but that that they are just like if you were doing it in that unknown context you would say they are like they are being really annoying this person I don't know um so now there is the issue of if it can feel unnatural right um and I know sometimes when I read something and I read they and it's about one person I kind of

061do a double take and have to go back and make sure I comprehended it right so I think that um you know there is a little bit of um a hiccup in the hard wiring of our linguistic um senses when we use they in the singular to refer to a particular known person right that said um it can be done and the law is basically saying you have to do it so what it what it's you know we I talk about the intentional or persistent refusal here in this key language and I wanted to highlight that because when we're doing things that are linguistically um not natural to us people will make mistakes and when it's a mistake you know oops I I meant to say they but I said or I meant to say

062she but you know for the past 12 years I've known you as a boy I've only said he and oops Iceland you know when it's not done persistently or intentionally or you know to cause harm to that individual that's not going to be harassment now sometimes it'll be a factual question whether it is being done intentionally or not being done intentionally um but you know in every um in every setting you know um this pronoun um changing um situation has been adopted you know you can it could be the most you know Progressive organization on sexual issues and yet still have some difficulty and pick it up and oops I'm sorry just like it you know people call me Rachel all the time my name's Rebecca oops I'm sorry it happens constantly you just say

063Loops I'm sorry and and we move on and I think you know so we don't need to worry that this is going to come an issue of people are trying to speak in a natural way and they slip up and it's going to be a huge problem but there does we do need to make the effort as much as possible to um use the students or individuals because it could be a teacher you know to use the person's um name that they request to be used and the pronouns that they requested because it's the law because it's the law because just this one particular thing it's still it's like the grammar police I'm not I'm very I very strongly believe in being respect but this one really that's just one little thing to think the

064first look at it uh deal with a situation where someone was uh using the they pronoun um yeah it felt it felt a little awkward and I you know I I kind of felt like I was pausing a lot to make sure that I used the pronoun that they wanted used but see I just did that and it worked and you know it with practice I think it will um you know again if people make mistakes they apologize and move on but that we the law does require that we do this the the term if you want to label for um not doing this is called misgendering um and misgendering can occur in a few different ways like you know you say you're a man and I say you know okay all the women come

065over here um and I include you in that group um any kind of misgendering is a form of discrimination as kind of laid out by these different cases that have considered the issue and you know in addition to the cases it's come from the Department of Education and state and federal you know so even if at some point down the road a court might say that misgendering is not considered sex discrimination it's certainly in the best interest of the district to follow the current guidance of the authorities that will be deciding these issues if something were to be brought up all right uh so the the terms in here since they're not legal are they considered social social construct in which case what do we need what do we need to include in a policy

066only what the law refers to so there's no requirement to have a policy on this topic at all um and you know as I mentioned it's helpful to habit because we want our Personnel to act in accordance with the policy and the law in terms of these definitions um you know they are I guess social constructs as much as you know any other uh classification of people as a social construct uh age race religion and so on um that said when we um when we Define these terms we're doing it for the purposes of a policy we need to be able to speak about these scenarios or like we're not saying um you know to going going back to Mr White's uh first question on this you know well if I if I say I'm

067of a certain gender does that make it so this policy does not decide that right we are not deciding that a uh person who is assigned the sex at Birth of male who identity who now identifies as a female we are not deciding they are a female but we are deciding that in accordance with the law um because the gender identity they are consistently expressing is female that for our purposes we are going to treat them as females so we are going to treat them as female when it comes to issues of locker rooms when it comes to issues of programmers when it comes to you know they say I want to be called this and not that as their first name let's say um you know and that is so we're not declaring any

068kind of fact we we're not the gender um Arbiters who say okay now you're you're female here's your certificate of of femininity right it's that we recognize that we are obligated to to act in accordance with that students gender identity so when you have an obligation under the law to act in accordance with the student's gender identity it would be really helpful if we talk about what gender identity means um we some people might think it's sexual orientation for example I mean these terms are many of them are relatively new many of them are not necessarily terms that are well known to a lot of people so if you're going to have a policy that is saying this is what we're going to do in this situation this is what we're going to do in

069that situation we want to have those terms be clear we don't want someone saying oh okay you can you can use the female locker room once you've had that sex change that's what this means right because transgender that means you had a sex change right like we don't want to have um people using the terms in the wrong way and therefore acting in accordance or acting out of accordance with our legal requirements because of confusion of the terms and in many policies we've defined terms right we're not defining um you know we're just we're saying you know hey for the purposes of our acceptable use policy computer networks includes all you know all computers contained within the district and so on um you know because now when I say computer networks I don't have to

070say that whole long definition that's really you know the purpose of having problems in a policy um so the um you know student identity Information Systems there's you know again these this comes from key but I'm endorsing it as I I feel that this will help us to best comply with our legal obligations we're going to make sure that there's not some you know disclosure of a student's confidential information because you know someone goes onto um you know the student uh email system and sees the opening you know let's say and and I had that happen at a workplace I saw someone that I knew as Michelle I started typing in her email and then last name and it comes up as Michael that's how I knew that Michelle used to be known as Michael

071you know we want to make sure that we're being careful about those things um when it comes to restroom accessibility um again this uses that language of consistently asserted at school um and I just want to you know that's a starting point but we need to say you know if a student does not consistently assert themselves as either male or female at school which kind of that language might cover both the non-binary issue and the gender fluidity issue um that this will be addressed on a case-by-face basis um seeing issue with locker rooms um when it comes to locker rooms um I know that has been a hot button issue bottom line we are not allowed to require a student to use a lot of room that is for a gender identity that they do

072not identify with nor can we segregate them out and say okay you have to use the single stall bathroom or you have to use the single stroke install locker room and you can't use the the general one however it is good practice to the extent that your physical facilities allow for it to have options for any student who chooses to use the Single Sex one or um whether it's in a bathroom or locker room setting so you know there are many students for all sorts of reasons maybe you know they've they've body acne and they don't want anyone to see it doesn't have to be about a gender identity issue um who might want to use a stall or Curtis off at um area or you know change in a location um or at a

073time that is a little bit more private um and any student has that writing um not not necessarily until actually as a legal right so I want to be clear about that but any student should any student want to have that option and if you are giving that option it needs to be done in a way that does not discriminate based on uh gender identity so you're not saying okay the transgender student needs to be the one to to use that facility that's what they want to do they work with the captain you know they talk to the counselor about how they're going to handle these things you know maybe that's what the student who doesn't consider themselves to be male or female chooses to do but it can't be forced on them um so

074two things just for awareness of students number one um let's just say as an example a person is born a boy and they decide they need to use their girl's locker room are the other girls as well as that the first student are they all informed that they could go use so they're not really aware that they could use a no students are aware that they could use a different place to change they are yeah okay not going to be told hey there was someone who was born away who was Now using your locker room so if you want to change course you should do that it's more just a general principle yeah if you want if you desire greater privacy for any reason whatsoever you have that option okay but they know that is

075the point right okay and a second of all this goes back to the point maybe a while ago with regard to surveys that are distributed you said that students have the option to opt out of a survey question or a survey are students aware of that if they're given a survey by teachers or do they get it from the teacher because the thing I'm going to do is I guess I got to answer all the questions unless I'm told that I don't have to do it yeah I couldn't verify that every single time everything that's handed out yeah sure if students have the ability to opt out they should be aware that that's perfect my how this has been playing out through my representation of various districts is that to the extent any such questions

076are asked it's not what is your gender identity right it's what would you like me to call you what pronouns do you use um and so if the student the student yeah but even if they even if they don't want to answer those questions they should know that they they can write down right yeah and she's not arguing that fact uh just the context of How It's asked and yeah we can indicate on on a questionnaire like that when the teacher is trying to you know get to know the student because that's 99 of the time that I've done this I mean maybe there's a one percent where it's a biology assignment or something like that where studying chromosomes or something but but the vast majority is getting to know the student and we can

077indicate on there that you know the questions are optional yeah and it's always about in that context because the teacher is looking for instruction from the student right it's not about disclosure gender identities I have have to call you something what is the something I should call you you know and when I was in law school I remember one of the classes I was in an incidentally educational class we went around the room the professor asked each student what they wanted to be called I was in a minority to want to be called by my first name um it was like John and Phil Peterson III you know and they want them to be called Phil um so it was it was really very interesting to me because I saw that um you know this

078professor wasn't trying to figure anything out with this the professor just literally wanted to know what to call people and I I just remember being stunned by the fact that there were like they're one or two other students who wanted to be called by their actual first name um so you know I think yeah if if a teacher is just Distributing a questionnaire that is like hey give me a rundown of all your protected statuses it may not be unlawful but I don't know it's a seriously question why the teacher is doing that right um and you know so we're not and that's why um I indicated in my response there to the this it should never be done for the purposes of discriminating against someone right you don't want a situation where someone self-disposes

079something whether it's their gender identity or their religion or their national origin um and then that is used against them in some way by their teacher that would plainly violate the non-discrimination law so it's less about the query and more about how the information is used um I will mention just for the sake of completeness that there are um there's a specific law that addresses certain um surveys when they are administered as part of a where the Department of Education is administering funding in order to issue this survey and there's a very specific law on that particular topic involving opt-outs and and so on um but unless you have the Department of Education giving you money to administer a survey this isn't something you need to be thinking about in general so that's why you

080know I kind of default too the teacher is just doing the getting to know you survey there's not a limitation on asking this I think um you know best practice but certainly be not to require any student um to answer because I can't think of a legitimate reason a student wants to be required to answer um when we look at um you know other topics like PE again we're going to go to it goes with the students gender identity um the there's it's always been um a controversial issue when it comes to Athletics um and so for that we're uh this policy like pretty much every policy I've seen on this subject differs to the applicable regulations of the Connecticut introsplastic Athletic Association and that's going to um govern what we do there um dress

081codes um I don't know if you have dress code that would even really get into any kind of gender issue but obviously they're just not going to be enforced in the discriminatory by yes oh as far as the competitive support team it's just compliance with ciac they're not even really a legal body are they um I know um but they you know their stuff actually is binding to anything right but that's um this is generally how that issue is being resolved especially because you are working so there's a legal reference somewhere to ciac yeah no it's just the policy would indicate it defers to in this policy which again we don't have to adopt or we could adopt it suggests as it relates to athletic participation you would follow kind of ciac guidance we don't

082have to follow cic guidance we could do generally we do for like most things you know following this following the speed limit is a choice right if we make the choice not to follow ciac guidance as it relates to this or other things like you know having a 23 year old play on our baseball team and that um the consequence would be you know that we're not qualified to participate in tournaments but you know the ciec guidance now is as of today that you're you can participate in the sport that you identify with there's advocacy on both sides of this issue right and so because of that it's a good idea to defer to the conference that you are playing under um but if the law becomes clear that we need to act a certain

083way then it will then follow that that's what we should be doing but right now because um you know if it is that it be done in accordance with the gender identity that is generally consistent with tenderloin but again there is advocacy on the other side saying well you know if you have um uh people who are biologically male participating on um a girl's team that it creates some kind of unfair Advantage um and so there this this is a hot button issue because then the argument is it's it's um making it more difficult for for girls to compete and so um this by doing this you're kind of giving yourself the flexibility to follow the guidelines in existence at that time um so should that change we will always be in accordance with the

084guidelines so the the policy that we could potentially write would just be referring to cisa there's no actual litigation right now that has definitively decided the issue correct this is very much um um a Hot Topic I am aware that there are cases that have been brought and none of them have definitively resolved the issue and again you know there's strong advocacy outside it's kind of arguing both ways can be a form of sex discrimination so this is one where it makes sense to follow the lead of an umbrella organizations we don't necessarily have full oversight right I mean as the superintendent was saying if you don't follow the rules of the conference then you may have issues with participation now if the conference were plainly telling you to violate the law we couldn't do

085that but certainly where this is a very a very open question um and they seem to be acting in accordance with the stated principles of Title IX um involving in general look every other topic we've said you go in accordance with gender identity it seems inappropriate way of deciding that issue for right now and should any of these Court decisions court cases come out in a way that makes it clear we should be doing it another way then we will do it the other way and I'm sure CIA c will do so as well but if they don't then we'll say well I'm sorry ciac we're going to follow along yeah so you seem to be very knowledgeable on this topic so I want to just I'm hoping that you could elaborate or offer some

086insight on this so over the past year I've you know Googled stuff one thing that I've found I feel like I've seen a pattern when I've sort of randomly Googled stuff it was a discussion that the living in the binary world is it's not real it's not men in males and females and there's like six types of gender gender do you know what I'm talking about I've seen this in a couple sources I don't know specific that um if you go back thousands of years there are um there are cultures that from thousands of years ago to the present have recognized within them more than one gender I'm sorry more than two genders right um and so there's this idea hey this isn't just something new that got made up in you know the 1970s

087or whenever you want to attribute it to um but that you know the fact that other cultures can have more than two genders and have genders that aren't male or female um kind of shows that this isn't necessarily inorganic concept now there's arguments of course that it is an organic concept chromosomes right um so but to kind of put what you're saying in a framework there is a sense that um if you look at the issue cross-culturally that it has long been viewed that there had to be more than two genders um but I you know as to whether it's five six twenty you know I I think Facebook at one point had a scroll down of quite a few um you know that's going to obviously be you know something that is more defined

088by how you're viewing a particular thing we're not saying of course that Cheshire Public Schools you know makes a policy pronounce it and we now recognize you know 26 genders or you know anything like that um but just like with religion you know if a student um you know has an issue because of a religious matter and it's a religion that you've never heard of you know we're going to treat it the same way as if it's a religion you have heard of and so I think it kind of works um in that in that same vein I should mention also um there's there's another concept that's not about being transgender but that also deals with issues of non-binary status which is intersex um and intersex is an um refers to an individual who biologically

089does not have one clear gender so um it could be they are their chromosomes are not X X or X Y it could be like xxy for example um there are also people who um may have external characteristics matching one gender but they're chromosomes tell a different story um and so that's why I think the term sex aside at Birth is used so much um it's partially about actually bringing intersex people into the conversation here so when you're dealing with intersex um you know you can't even say hey biology wins there's one clear answer because there isn't and there are people who um may have always thought they were a certain gender their biology went asserted you know they looked one way they reach puberty and their body starts doing something very different from what

090they've always thought so I just want to acknowledge you know since you did ask about multiple genders that there is something that is definitively biologically this is just factual that there are people who their chromosomes are not in accordance with their external presentation has nothing to do with the psychological aspects of it um that don't fit into one or the other and the same thing we would basically have to you know follow their lead in terms of how we're going to treat them we can't say well you go based on your chromosomes in those situations yeah no I mean I I grew up in the Cheshire public schools with xx and XY chromosomes and but I also remember you know the Olympics probably 30 years ago with the East Germans women's weightlifting team being openly

091mocked on TV because they had xxy chromosomes um I also grew up in a world where cholesterol was bad and now cholesterol is both good and bad so science advances I understand that but I also think that it's um I way in my mind the discussion we're having right now is probably fairly Limited in the number of people that are actually affected uh only who do not fall into what would normally be so yeah XX woman and XY correct although it is again it's possible for people not to know it until they reaches but yes I took um I took the class in law school specifically it was like a one credit seminar specifically on intersex issues in the law and so I would feel remiss if I didn't bring it up while we're discussing

092hey how many genders are there you know the thing that the thing is to go for me sitting on this board is like where does this end because like I was what I was saying I'd read before about like six different types of people you're talking about you know Facebook having dozens and dozens and how many how do we deal with sports teams sports team or the bathroom or the lock ER or the third gender record the fifth gender right you're okay to have two locker rooms but that's why I'm I'm recommending the language not say things like you can use the one um in accordance with your consistently expressed gender identity without some other language acknowledging an alternative because okay my gender identity is this third category so you don't have a lot of

093room for me so your policy doesn't address me at all right I just want to say in that situation it will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis maybe I feel closer to one gender or another you know maybe um I you know there's one I'm just more comfortable with and I'm gonna pick that and I'm gonna stay with it maybe in my case it means I'm going to use the single stall because that's what makes me feel most comfortable and maybe I feel like hey I don't want anyone else feelings or whatever but you know that has to be a one-on-one piece by case determination um as we continue to move through the policy obviously we're saying discrimination or harassment is not um permissible um there's always to service students within the you know

094chesh Republic schools do not have to um send someone to some other school because we can't meet their needs um there is a part here at the very end about professional development do you want to address that um so it says the Board of Education directs the superintendent to provide for the training of District staff and transgender sensitivity and what it means to treat all people respectfully and equally developmentally each appropriate training shall also be provided for students this is not required and I feel that if there's anything that you're going to say hey maybe we want to exercise our discretion and not include this might be where you do it Title IX training is going to cover um non-discrimination on this topic um or at least it ought to right so um you know

095yeah go ahead finish so that this is this is one where you have um you know you're not required to provide this training obviously you want to make sure that people are not violating the law and creating liability for you so you have to give some thought to this right on the one hand you know especially that uh last sentence about the development until age-appropriate change also be provided for students you know it doesn't have to be about transgenderism you know it it I think in general the concept that is taught to children from a young age you know everybody's different all families are different um you know you don't have to get into the specifics of what that means um but you you also have the obligation to make sure no one is being

096mocked or ridiculed because they're transgender or because of their orientation or anything like that so you know you have to balance how you feel about providing the training and whether you feel you can do it in a way that you know respects everybody's values on this topic or you know and and how effective you think that training will be in terms of preventing future liabilities um you know so I would at least consider you know for the staff that we need to make sure people are confined with Title IX um for that last point you know that that's your judgment call um you know as the board to determine what you want to do in that area yeah and I think you just covered it and it I was just thinking on the professional development

097side we don't have to but we do because we have sexual harassment training that we've gone through um for the superintendent again we don't have to but it would be in best practice to offer some form of education for this particular topic not necessarily mandating staff but it's a option for professional development day so I'm just trying to see where these these are all things to cons you know that are very very much within your discretion whereas with the other pieces you know you don't have to have a policy but if you do this is really what it all to say um with respect to you know um this language of transgender Sensitivity I mean that that you look we talk about things like being sensitive to People based on their Race For example you

098know um that does make its way into the school setting um and the question is you know whether you want to add this into those kinds of Concepts or not again and it can always be done in the general sense very gentle sense of we treat people the same we respect all people no matter you know no matter who they are doesn't matter if they're a foyer girl it doesn't matter you know um what their race is what their religion is we treat everybody um respectfully and we're kind to all people you know and that could be the lesson but you you know that is very much your judgment call there are some districts that will want to run all the way with this and make it you know require a formal part of the

099instruction to everybody in the district um you have to balance the factors in making that determination so I have no recommendation for you as to what you want to do here um because that's very much um you know more of a personal values kind of question but as your lawyer I want to say you should do what you can to prevent discrimination or harassment from occurring and so if you feel the training is necessary to do that do that you know but if you have to weigh a number of values when I do a timeline training I usually have a slide that mentions um that sexual orientation and gender identity are included within this concept I want people to be aware of it and so that they know hey I've got to call my title

1009 coordinator when I hear something about gender identity um and it has to follow that very specific timeline mechanism not a garden variety disciplinary issue kind of method but when you um um you know so it's not like there's a whole training built around it but then it becomes part of our thinking process as we go through well what does this mean as we're dealing with particular scenarios and if you're going to be at the cape caps conference you'll see some of that um I do want to mention of I noted in the um in in the subsequent versions of the cape policy there was some language on um gender segregation in other areas talking about things like overnight guilt trips um where it talked about um you know that those will be addressed on

101a case-by-case basis um you know again because the privacy considerations go up a little bit but we still have that full of we have to treat someone in accordance with their gender identity but we may be able to figure out you know hey if there's going to be roommates maybe we can match people up in a way that's going to work out best um likewise um there's Parts about and this kind of goes even a bit to that training piece but it's more targeted um it says when it's talking about student who may be transitioning this is in the Privacy section it says we're the transgender student feels more supported and safe when other students are aware that they're transgender School staff shall be giving guidance and training appropriate facilitating respectful School climate so that's

102kind of contemplating hey we've got a particular scenario that we're dealing with and we're going to make sure that you know we handle this in an appropriate way and you know these kinds of issues may come up in other kinds of contexts too you know uh I remember when I was in elementary school a classmate of mine was diagnosed with diabetes we had a whole conversation about how we could be respectful like don't you know shove candy in her face um because you know in third grade that's what you do and so you know this can all like having those conversations whether it's with the students to help the students um acclimate to a change or with the faculty involved it can be helpful do you need it in your policy not necessarily but it's

103it's certain like you don't want to just have people jumping in with no idea how to handle a situation that's what a student is really starting to make a transition I think where it's going to be most relevant um you think that was all like flagged in terms of the um language from something other than that standard key policy that I thought was helpful let me just double check um the other one um you know so I do think that the K policy is an excellent starting point you do not need to adopt it exactly as written nor do you need to take my suggestions in terms of how to modify it um you know but I'm open to discussion and tweaking and you know how are we defining this or that or is there

104some scenario like the overnight field trips is in another policy but not in that one that is there some other scenario we want to think about and put into our housing so as a matter of practice basically we don't have this policy up for a discussion tonight this is uh informative and if we wanted to include that um that would be in a subsequent meeting for first reading or something but this is uh it's been a very helpful overview of uh I guess just the whole topic as a potential you know policy as well so you know that's out there for your consideration if uh there aren't any other questions I know we had Rebecca here also to talk about nepotism but I'll leave it up the next two hours on nepotism will be gripping

105yeah regardless of how I grew up but I also wonder when we're talking about say young teens could some of it be what would otherwise be termed as Rebellion that's that's it's manifesting itself in this way but it's not really that the team is transgender and how is that I I think that's got to be part of the picture I'm not saying here in Cheshire but Global here across the U.S how is that is that addressed in any way or is it that's just that's maybe I'm totally wrong and that's a non-issue and I'm just being crazy I think for the legal framework okay um it just it doesn't become an issue any more than you know let's say you know my family is one religion and I'm going to say hey I want to

106observe a different religion and um maybe it's out of rebellion maybe it's out of sincere belief but either way when I you know I'm looking to have some kind of accommodation or you know something that's got to be considered as my genuine religion right um so I think you know the we should from a policy standpoint err on the side of viewing it as this is a student's gender identity however understanding children are growing teenagers are changing I you know this goes back to more of my Concepts about exploration you know I don't know that anyone you know at least consciously says I'm transgender in order to divide my parents right they may subconsciously say hey I'm breaking free of some kind of norms that I deem oppressive when you um but you know it's

107it's teenagers people in their early 20s right they're in a great time of personal introspection development growth you know of lgbtq um the queue well sometimes it stands for queer sometimes it stands for questioning but the key for the cue for questioning you know is questioning it's it's hey I'm not sure where I am in this in this realm right and um we have to meet students where they where they are um and so if you know we're not ever saying to a student because today you're using the girl's locker room that that's the end I'll be all you can never you can never go back right we're not nothing is etched in stone um and so if a student says you know what that was a face I'm done with that face I've moved

108on um that that's fine people right I mean people go through phases with respect to what they believe about their sexual orientation and you know we don't we don't look at a 40 year old and say oh your sexual orientation is a face right but we understand with a 14 year old they may be trying to figure out what um what resonates for them in life so um you know if a student says Hey I just to a guidance counsel at a time I decided yesterday I'm trans you know I think it's a you don't necessarily want to jump into a full on transition and I think you know the student ideally would be talking to their personal support network and trying to decide what that means for them and you know maybe a year

109later they say okay you know I I really I want to I want to shed my old identity I want to grow into this new identity that I've been developing for some time but you know we just need to be responsive to the student where they are not assume that anything is not genuine not assume that anything is um is temporary but also not assumed to the contrary um and I think just the the goal for all of these issues is really to work with the student in a supportive climate so that we are helping the student with what they personally need and you know sometimes helping them think through you know okay um you decided that yesterday um you know how do you feel about this you know and open-ended questions to help a

110student you know kind of see where they are maybe they realize hey I don't want to jump all the way into something I'm not really sure about because I decided this yesterday so um you know I don't from a legal framework you know it doesn't change it's not like one day you get granted trans status right but um it's just a matter of saying hey there's a gender identity that is being expressed and we need to match that gender identity in terms of what we allow the student to do okay I think we'll conclude this portion of the agenda um yeah so now it's nepotism type but uh thank you for that hour and 45 minute discussion you're welcome I think we only that's tip of the iceberg uh for everything that we went over

111but I think that gives us a good overview and for those who are watching at home um I think it does give us a good overview of kind of where we are as uh as part as far as the law goes and how we would contemplate uh implementing a policy if we decide to do that so Rebecca do you have suggestions for parents too I know there's organizations like true colors and so on that you would recommend for parents who want to research further with credible sources not just a Googling of you know that is a really great question I mean most of the organizations um that I can think of that are active on this topic are fairly political and you know if you're looking for something truly you know that's that's going that's

112not necessarily trying to be political I think that's where it gets complicated um you know but I will say that with acknowledgment of the political bent um of these organizations um obviously glad has is probably the first one that comes to mind um in terms of you know their reason for existence is for um advocacy around LGBT issues um so they certainly have a lot I saw um the ACLU has a lot um on this topic um you know when it comes to looking for something that's a little more oriented toward the legal framework um if the State Department of Education and the Federal Department of Education um if you were to Google it the um the State Department of Education um has put it out it's from 2017 but it's they have a company

113yeah but for yourself at home right for the folks at home who want to go further and you know in depth sure I would also recommend just contacting your school counseling office you know is a really good place to start if you're comfortable with that um rather than just a Google search um you know if there's counselors outside of school that you as a parent or your child may want to speak to uh there are connections there that we can support I I want to bring up that this isn't generally um a process that individuals going through take very lightly you know in my history of of uh working as a school counselor and a mental health professional and a and a school administrator before being here you know this is something that creates a

114lot of a lot of tumultuous emotion and there's a reason that the the rates of self-injury and suicide are dramatically higher in a population that doesn't identify cisgender heterosexual so you know if there are questions if there's concerns from us you know about a student from parents or whatever contacting the school counseling office contacting Michelle picarillo at uh Cheshire Social Services is another great resource I just want to make sure people I mean this isn't a significant it's I guess a significant portion of the population but it's not the vast majority right the vast majority are navigating these issues but for those people who do it can be really challenging in those families and I would encourage them to seek out those resources to support them through this process regardless of how it turns out

115I'd like to add to that you know there are um resource you know um there are definitely organizations that work to you know kind of educate families like hey I just found out my kid is trans you know what am I how do I how do I work with this you know and um because it it that's a revelation you know that unless it's one of those situations where you've seen it coming since the kid was two um is going to be jarring at least for a family to to learn something unexpected about their child so um you know having resources to kind of you know cope with the changes that are coming and to navigate the transition speaking to the child's pediatrician um you know you can also I think be an excellent resource

116and a way to ensure appropriate care um and I do want to just mention um if you are looking for more of a legal framework you know what what are the obligations of school districts uh Connecticut State Department of Education but about this publication in 2017 if you Google it'll come right up called guidance on civil rights protections and supports for transgender students um and so you know that is probably the most targeted um reference source that I can identify because it's it's Connecticut and it's for schools and it's on the transgender issues versus some National Organization or things of that nature but you know there there is a lot out there and you know as we're trying to navigate um these topics you know if you have questions for me that go beyond a

117you know legal perspective I will always draw in um other sources to be educated on the topic I don't want to be speaking about the rights of you know transgender youth without being able to tell you the difference between transgender and transsexual for example you have to know what your discussion um is it nepotism time okay um this is a pretty quick discussion um I was asked to modify this policy um which is 4212.8 um which is nepotism Implement of relative so um with respect to employment um there's there's not actually a law that says that we cannot employ um relatives um you know to supervise one another but is definitely best practice not to there's allegations that favoritism it's generally it's generally found upon particularly in the public sector that said um what I

118have done with your policy is um me really two changes but you know the one of the changes carries through to a couple different places so um I was asked to specifically address that for purposes of this policy form and shall be considered a supervisor um this is because um in other contexts in other contexts a foreman is not considered a supervisor and so apparently there may have been an issue and um there was a concern about applying the policy when we're saying hey we're not going to have someone being a supervisor over a relative so um because they function in a lot of ways like a supervisor um I added that language um it's not required to be there but it's there because um we want to address that potential scenario um so you're

119saying that's okay to have correct the definition of that definition yes and that's why I said four purposes of this policy not you know so if I may I want to just articulate what I'm envisioning so organ chart hiring manager hiry person being hired whatever dotted line to your supervisor the person who actually sees what you're doing on a day-to-day basis your hiring manager doesn't know what you're doing on a day-to-day basis they have an idea you're going to that school to work on that field right but the supervisor actually knows what you're doing and actually over the course of eight hours probably spends 15 or 20 minutes with you over the course of that day to see what's going on and see if the work is satisfactory and then the supervisor reports in to

120the manager basically says yeah everything was great today with all the people mm-hmm yeah so my question is are what you're speaking to right now are you saying we are allowed to have a Prohibition on relatives between the employee and the supervisor so so well that's what you're saying in terms of certain questions well um I I think using that scenario again and what you had said about outside of this policy so if that goes to a State Labor Board hearing would the policy are following this policy in identifying the foreman as supervisor and not allowing somebody to take that role because of that hold up in a State Labor Board context if if grieved or whatever yeah because we're we're defining it as long as we clearly Define it within the policy yeah all

121right so we missed this and we're going to fix it right yeah okay who know we had to get that specific right yeah and then um the other piece of it is um it's kind of two changes but it's um in a similar way so one is just civil unions don't really exist anymore because um even in people who had gotten a civil union it was converted by operation of law automatically until marriage years ago so the references to civil unions in general are outdated um so I removed that because it falls under the prior um word which is marriage um but I didn't even know that was in there I see a lot of policies I mentioned civil union if I'm not changing anything else I'll usually just let that sit but since I

122am making the change I thought I would bring it up to 2022. um and then I added or if you live together but now we have this Trend whether it's a romantic relationship or not but I think romantic relationships come to mind first that you know people can cohabit for 10 years 20 years 50 years never be married um never intend to get married um but they're they bought a house together they had a dog together and they're racing kids together but they're not married functionally we ought to consider them as relatives because why should they why should there be a difference in terms of the policy likewise um you know so I started with romantic but you know you could have you know it's some it's someone else who lives with you that doesn't

123fall under this for any even a roommate you know is there common law in Connecticut or yeah okay um so the um you know the situation here let's you know even if it's your roomie do you really want a situation where someone is supervising their roommate I I think it's just too close for comfort so roommates fiance's you know my my boyfriend's child who is not my child whatever the scenario is um it just makes sense extends the umbrella which I think was the intent right I mean so the concern the concern for me is if you're if if you can be relatively objective okay so nobody's 100 objective they're gonna be biased to some degree but you want to minimize to me I just want to minimize the bias and when you know the

124manager is taking a lot of input from the supervisor they're probably going to defer to the supervisor on I'm going to write it I'm going to write you up and then go home and well you write other people up and then go home and have dinner with your cohabitor right right so and that's unfair and it it minimum it has the appearance of being unfair the Optics are terrible and that's what I want to avoid exactly because and that's my point it's so untenable to think I'm going to write you up and then go have dinner with you that obviously then I'm not going to write you up and if I'm not going to write you up when you sh when you ought to have been running up then I'm not doing anything and so

125um and even if I am doing my job there's still the issue of Optics so um you know nepotism policies you know there's you have a lot of flexibility in what you do with them um if you're just trying to say hey can we not have situations that are clearly going to be problematic from day one um by broadening this to include anybody cohabiting um regardless of the nature of the cohabitating relationship I think that will be really helpful and then I removed all your legal references to civil unions because I took on civil unions so so just be clear I think one of the reasons why we wanted to talk to you about is because it sounded like because of the uh the public hearing that we had it sounded like our our policy

126had been watered down and it turns out that's that may have been the case temporarily it turns out that we can keep it as strict as we had intended it to be by changing some warning to keep it as strict as sweet yeah I wouldn't say that the policy was worded down watered down when we had the policy and it you know on the surface it made sense I think what's counter-intuitive is the idea that the foreman in the right State Labor Board is not considered a supervisor so it was like oh all right and that was the angle that was played right what we're doing is closing closing the loophole for lack of a better term gotcha okay so one gem so we're doing I I see two issues here one of which is

127uh straight uh tidying up this policy and then second of all if this policy ends up affecting any existing situations is there anything that changes with the existing situations or is that grandfathered in I don't um policy um specifically addresses it but I guess um my question would be do we know of any situations where this is an issue I'm not aware of any supervision any issues where the the supervisor falls into any of this okay or Foreman okay falls into any of this um when we initially instituted this we were aware of that yeah yeah where there was a in-law relationship with a supervisor um then the person didn't directly supervise the individual but was a supervisor in the building and we felt that that wouldn't be appropriate and made a transfer so there

128aren't you know situations that will be implicated here thank you sure so if you know I think we're all on the same page here just from the quick conversation that we would add this for our first reading in our next yeah okay yeah all right all right if we're ready to move on I guess we can dismissed Rebecca and thank her for her time and energy this evening and throughout the day too I had babysitters yeah my wife is not home right now sorry we could still get the two two boats and it'll carry it right the dismissed the next uh the next piece of the meeting should be relative yeah thank you Ted oh I know it's hard to get you know babysitters and stuff I've been in that position before in the night

129is my mom and dad but they made it clear that's uh good night all right see you tip all right good night thank you um good night thank you for coming um this first one is really about Narcan in the schools we were directed you know through the State Department of Health that we should have a policy around that um and uh I apologize for some reason I can't figure out how to make this bigger I can't drag it around I cannot I can actually see it can you read that I can which is this this is uh just short of eye chart quality I don't know how could you double click and open it on another all right that one got it okay even though I couldn't see a thing there just randomly clicking

130um so the way that we've approached Narcan for many years is that it's a life-saving tool and why wouldn't we have I mean it's it's fairly miraculous and you know this is not because we're worried about our staff or a seventh grader it it you know do a little having an overdose necessarily although um you know recent events you know things look like whatever you know kids may get to something on the street or at home or wherever it's a life-saving tool so we've used this for many years across the district not used we haven't had to use it we stock it what's that just can't stop filtering I don't know if it stops uh that's not really an opioid I got the opioid based I don't know if it would stop I'd have to

131Google that but um you know either way you don't know when somebody's having an episode necessarily what it is so um we do have training conducted either by the nurse the Cheshire Police Department uh to support how to use Narcan if necessary we have it available in every nurse's office in the district um you know because that's where the most people will be there during the day but we also have it at the high school and the middle school because those buildings are used a lot after hours in the uh AED uh areas so if you see an ADP uh resource on the wall and when you open the cupboard there there's a Narcan involved there as well oh really oh wow so unlike an EpiPen this requires a person to be able to train

132to use this we we do train people to use it but it's it's basically just a nasal inhaler you um you know there are processes you go through to check breathing and things like that then you know you if they're unresponding you give them what's called the sternum rub where you use your knuckles up and down on their chest to see if there's any sort of response and if there's not um and you think it you have reasons any reason to believe that it could be a drug overdose this is not going to hurt you if it's not a drug overdose um and it could save your life if it is so the employee exactly I think that yeah yeah yeah so I mean that's why we have it I mean I know initially when

133we first had it some people were saying you know what are you are your kids using drugs all the time no I just my kids aren't having heart attacks either but we have aeds yeah so it's kind of our approach to this um and this just kind of goes through what the protocol is for that so I mean I I thought I had a question and I don't remember where the section was there was a paragraph um we have a couple more readings on this too so there's not an urgency necessarily most of the languages from cave that's uh yeah yeah I'm using my phone here because the computer doesn't work yeah sorry yeah yeah I guess what it was yeah well I I think I did I didn't remember where it was but it

134was on my computer um no wall but then maybe had something to do with training I think or or the location of it was the policy said it's located in the nurses offices yes and the only people to have access to it at least during school hours are supposed to be the nurse or superintendent's designee here right right yeah our administrators are trained um and the nurse that's in the nurse's office so the principals have keys to the nurse's office and can access Narcan after hours but like I said we make it fairly available at the middle and high school where we have frequent large groups of people using the facility after hours and there's always someone there who's aware that it's available usually building maintainers will be aware that it's available yeah do they

135have to receive training at all um I don't know off top my head if they've received training or not I'll ask Nancy about that our nursing coordinator um but you know certainly we we could give them training on that should you know because they do go to different buildings as well because I mean they're required to be there and if they are aware yeah so and I guess what I'm saying too is the the Darcy building maintainer could be working an event at the high school too right so it's probably helpful to let it's good suggestion I'll talk to Nancy about training that crew um it's very quick I mean it's probably a half hour um you know I remember having that training and it does actually reverse Fentanyl I just Google oh wow yeah

136wow so okay great quite an invention no kidding huh when is that coming from cancer and other things right yeah um you have to um okay yeah this would be uh we'd have to move this for a second reading I don't know if you want to do that first reading before the board right yeah the uh I don't know if you want to do that now or do them all at the end oh I don't just slow down yeah I'll uh so I'll I'll move that um uh policy 5141.213 administering medication be moved to a first reading second any discussion all in favor it's unanimous of those present thank you um school activity fund this is um the second moving for a second reading if you recall we had the audit done the first part

137of this is simply changing the title uh to clo and then the second part of this is information provided by the auditor that just updated all of our protocols right you know so we I know we reviewed this and we're like ah this is much different and better than the last yes so if you guys are okay I can jump to the next one okay um electronic Board of Education meetings this is if you recall follows the the change in law that allows us to engage in remote meetings which I know we like to take advantage of um when we can't and so nothing I don't think I know we didn't change anything the first time around in this policy actually because uh Tony had a question or earlier this evening I had the opportunity

138to read through it again uh this evening um there was one thing in there that caught my eye and I don't know if this was uh uh required by law or not but it uh it says that if we're going to have a an electronic meeting it's 48-hour notice right not 24 hours yeah so that's there's those two different thresholds there right so how does how does that work exactly because usually our agendas are kind of they usually are 24 hours a lot of times yeah so when we when we do do a remote we do do the 48 hour posting yeah okay yeah and well thank you for that I appreciate it and the reason that they give that additional grace period is so that if somebody needed access to technology or whatever they

139could contact us when we could provide that okay it's generally not been an issue for us historically and you know almost everybody has a phone at least today so yeah you know okay it's been okay but yeah we are sensitive to that so if you guys want to make a motion for those for a second reading sure um move that policies uh 35 43 school activity fund and policy 9321.2 electronic Board of Education meetings uh be moved to a second reading second any discussion all in favor unanimous as of those present thank you the next one is uh food service charging policy that was updated uh through the law you know again it's it's pretty straightforward uh in terms of how we uh any District who receives Federal support for a food service program which

140we utilize obviously uh it has to adhere to this so the goal is obviously to limit discrimination and that may be not discrimination but embarrassment for kids and provide access and if there's an issue how districts on the back end and deal with families around this which you know we've been kind of following this anyway so all right um the other four policies here at the bottom s are that was an artifact yeah artifacts okay so seven is basically crossed that out right I just deleted it off yeah okay all right sure so that's the uh [Laughter] foreign food service charging policy be moved for a third and final reading there's a second um any discussion all in favor it's unanimous of those presents um is there any other Mr chair if I may uh

141yes sir under other you are very formal tonight um you know we kind of knew that this meeting was going to be longer uh and appreciate Rebecca coming and providing the depth that she did uh you know there's only so much you can fit on an agenda we'll be here for three months but uh in the next meeting I was hope hoping to take up uh some of the information around the curriculum review process the the uh policy about when a a family uh has an issue or somebody has a an issue with one of the resources that we have what the protocol is for that so you know with your blessing I guess I would add that if you guys want that for our so the so there's reference at the last business meeting

142that curriculum had kind of put put together a proposed policy is that correct yeah I don't know that they put together a proposed policy as much as they spent a couple of meetings actually kind of going through what the process was um you know Marlene and uh the committee members discussed the policy as it existed it you know could be updated and so there they put that over to us to review as well so sorry we have an adoption policy we do why is that more so the more so the uh challenge policy than the adoption policy the the you know what what do you do when things get challenged and how do you facilitate that so I'll send you some information in advance of our next meeting on that um if you're comfortable we'll

143throw that on the next yeah sure I mean obviously we know nepotism is going to go on the next agenda you guys can let me know about if you wanted to move forward with a transgender policy or not but then those two at least we know will be there which I'm sure that the uh challenging materials piece will take some time too so okay I I personally would like to see some sort of draft for us on the gender identity I don't know if that's something for now you're just gonna craft you know yeah I could work with Rebecca on what a draft would look like and disseminate it to you guys and you know we can go from there yeah we can um entertain it yeah yeah okay okay we'll work on that then

144because there certainly seem to be a lot there yeah yeah and whether or not like I said to you um previously when I sent the information to you like Rebecca said this isn't a required policy um but as she indicated tonight as well that it provides some level of guidance for people who have questions some level of awareness and you know Adam and I had had private or prior conversations around um you know not everybody understands the law around this issue which creates a lot of angst then there's angst about this is a medical topic for me or this is new to me um and so there's a lot of consternation and this just provides information to help you know cut through some of that fog so people are aware of what we're following and

145why we're following it I wonder if this would cross over to kind of an equity policy too or is it under Equity umbrella more or less so are we really truly bring forward an equity policy which you know cause attention to your identity or is is it too separate it sounds like it would be two separate things you know I think the level of detail inherent in this policy probably makes it separate but you know our Equity work I mean we have a group that is looking at other you know communities and what do they uh espouse in terms of an equity policy and I think ultimately it'll be something that this group will take a look at as you can see our agenda is pretty stacked in the next couple of meetings but um

146you know I wouldn't be surprised if in the spring we're looking at something like that to see if does this make sense for us or not you know I mean our take is I mean I can't help but to think well she's going through this it's like we don't really we care but we don't care who you are or what you know when you walk through the door you're you and we want to you know love you up and and educate you I don't care what you are what color you are what religion race sexual expression any of that stuff how do we support you to become the best you you can be and I mean that's kind of a to a degree um you know what we're looking at I mean I appreciate too

147that we want to make sure that we are providing you know everybody access and support to be the best you you can be I think that's another part of the equity policy but it starts with you know we love everybody who comes through our door how do we support you you know to be the best you you can be but I think it helps to acknowledge is that way absolutely absolutely that's what I said I think this is a part of it you know it starts there and then where does it go beyond that you know how do we leverage our differences uh to make it the best possible experience for kids I mean Adam's been you know for the forthright about the shock you know some of the culture shock that came with going

148from Cheshire High to college you know this does not look like my neighborhood you know um and that's a great thing you know I I didn't have Chinese food till I went to college I grew up with an Irish immigrant and my mom was a heck of a cook but you know they had like potatoes mom worked nights you know I ate a lot of Pizza in McDonald's in high school no Chinese food existed not that that's you know a full exposure to the Chinese culture but like pretty sheltered is what I'm saying but anyway so all right I think that's good for others um you know it's up to you guys now okay um seeing if there's no other uh items here on the agenda of motion to adjourn all right all in favor

149hi okay great thank you thank you guys