Planning Committee Meeting - Review Educational Specifications 3-16-22

001mr white mrs rosenberg mr chairman you don't have a quorum requirement we will proceed we do not have any action we'll start with discussion first let's do the pledge of allegiance i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty okay number two is there any communication on the audience all right so we're going to jump right into the uh the reason why we're here to both makes nice discuss the educational specifications for the two um school modernization effort um do you want to start with is there a certain order we'd like to go no i'll just i'll just kick it off for a couple of comments we are waiting for dave hansen who is an educational consultant

002who helped us with the aspects that we're going to review tonight the educational specifications they are a required document that has to be submitted as part of the application process for any school construction grant eligible applications so you know these we do these for roof replacements we did it for the compliance work that we did at cheshire high school last year which were ipva upgrades so they are a pretty standard document in this case it's a larger document because it is for the construction of two new school buildings so the point is that these do need to meet a certain standard in order for us to apply for the school construction grant which we do anticipate doing for both schools the documents that were prepared we did receive them in a draft form with dan

003hanson and then the copies that all the board members have as part of tonight's package have been redlined by essentially a meeting that was held with so that we had a little bit of a start in terms of you know what we think from the administration point of view so that's what i wanted to at least start with and then we have two different documents tonight i would suggest we start with the norton elementary school because the new north end elementary has essentially the same components as norton plus the addition of the darcy programs which are version three and recap so with that i don't know chuck if there was anything that you wanted to add to that not much just um it's it's a big milestone with refining that um the spec does um

004drive uh our budget highly it speaks to the size of building obviously and i think we talked about a lot with smc and this is where things really get focused it's no more these high and lows and guessing is really dialing in on the size of the building uh again and that really educates us probably 75 of your budget um going forward so it's a big step um i think we're on track we have a milestone we've been uh sharing and um i think we're right on track where we need to be to get things approved um get appropriations done and submit for the uh to the state and uh probably you know early right and speaking of approval just to make it clear board of education ultimately does have to improve the educational specs

005and on the timeline that should be done sometime in early to mid april to keep everything on track so the final draft basic timeline so uh there was the specs but also a milestone chart that was uh updated numbers this week that kind of happened we just received yeah this is more important it's kind of curious nice we needed to and really march has really been really the heavy pulp is pulling everything together and getting refinement to the the specs the budgets um schedule's pretty well laid out i think for it the final scg-53 that was going to happen to finalize that draft um they have targeted today we'll probably get next week but that's really just a parallel exercise there's no that credible path if you will obsessively ready for the submission of the

006grant application um and then hopefully just getting ready back in front of county council and through groups and uh everybody on board hopefully appropriations okay well i would like to introduce you know dan hanson as i mentioned is our educational consultant he's had a big part in in documenting the specs and um you know i think dan excuse me give a little bit of your background and then we'll do a quick introduction so you know where everybody is here sure thank you i'm sorry oh correct those stairs that's okay no it's just so elevated and tugging on the door for the last 20 minutes thank you for the gentleman it led me in the right door um so i'm dan hanson i'm an educational consultant and a former educator in south windsor i was an

007international principal for 16 and a half years assistant superintendent for 10 and i've had quite a bit of experience working with districts working developing education specifications for new projects joy working with the team here in cheshire okay maybe we could just go around and respect some damn knows who we are also i'm the chairman of the planning committee member appointment chairman of the board adam vice griffith jeff solon of course we've met and erican um and we met before i'm tim white board member i'm planning a committee member as well yeah three people in the committee so we needed two okay so with that i think we could you know jump right in and then yeah how do you want handles do you want to do you want your overview i mean i think it's

008important that this introduction section here who doesn't have it just kind of running through w so as you know one of the most critical first steps in developing that school children's product is developing the educational specifications and the expects are required as part of the grant submission to the state department of school construction and the inspects must be the board of education before that so one of the expectations in developing educational specifications is that you consult with the stakeholders within the school district who are using that building so in the process here at cheshire i had the opportunity to meet with over 60 staffs and that's including people at the central office level obviously the building of principals um attended every single session we met with classroom teachers of different age levels resource teachers the

009all the related staff members as well as the support services within the district the administrative office the nurses the food services custodial services so just about everybody who has a space in the school that needs to be programmed for so you know i have to say first that you know i'm so impressed with the level of commitment and dedication and enthusiasm on the part of the staff at every level and you know that's always you know a great experience walking into a district that's new to me but you can see their similarities among teachers and educators across the state and that there are things that are unique to cheshire [Music] one of the you know the most unique programs i think are those beautiful programs that are at our safety school that really character to

010them um not unusual for districts to have a pre-k program that mix children with special needs as well as community peers but it is very unusual to have support services for birth to three operating directly in the district so and then i had the opportunity to tour darcy school before any of our meetings just to get a sense of the unique kinds of spaces at darcy and i think that's something that we're trying to capture in the inspects the inspects ultimately get uh are used by the into architects design phase to kind of guide their design process okay so that will take you us through marked as page one you know what i think might be helpful just to kind of go through a quick run-through of the document and you know we could pause

011as we go through each page and we are starting with the one for northern elementary school the you know looking on page two the project rationale talks about essentially why we're doing this project and you know i guess the key thing there is that this you know norton elementary and the new north end elementary they're just you know phase one of the board and the town capital at this point i've agreed to the cps next generation phase one plan as far as you'll see that there's some yellow highlighting on page two on the top of page three those are items that are a bit fluid especially the bottom of page two where it shows a total program area of 65 290 square feet so we'll be going through that in more detail so depending on

012the final outcome of each of the spaces that number may change on page four the bottom is where we really begin to get into the details of each of the programmed spaces that have been identified in the end specs and really this is the mean potatoes and i think one of the most important pieces because it identifies the total square footage by program space that winds up with a total square footage for the school that winds up resulting in what the budget ultimately will be for each of the new schools and that that is important to finalize the square footage number because that does drive the next step which is the development of the final estimated budget so as we go through it you'll see on the right side of the pages where there's been

013some redline changes so the first section is early childhood school day kindergarten you see up on the top of page five each classroom would be 1100 square feet including a student toilet room and there'll be five of those classrooms based on the projected enrollment for norton and then you see as you look down again on the right side of page five you'll see essentially the specifications for each of the major items so toilet sinks classroom storage teacher storage student storage so in the case of student storage colton personal storage area for 24 located within the classroom okay so these kindergarten rooms are self-contained with everything that the child would come into the room you know hang up their coat if they have a backpack or a lunch bag you know the bathroom you know in

014case kindergarten is right inside the classroom and you can see the rest of the categories the 1100 square feet i don't know you know chuck or dan want to comment other than it is pretty standard for you know kindergarten classroom to be of that size you know it's not outside of the norm just to you know just to be clear about it i just want to plan famously watching it it's five classes um i'm sure i read it yes i was just wondering if that was an exception to that okay that's why i paused so then if there are no questions i'll keep moving and we can come back but the next section is early elementary so that's grades one and two you'll see that the classrooms are 900 square feet so the classroom size

015is smaller but each of those classrooms does have toilet and then all the other components of classroom teacher storage student storage because it's grades one and two andrews are your point it's five for great so we've identified ten classrooms over on page six early entrepreneurial elementary excuse me intermediate grade 345 same size classrooms 900 square feet toilets deviate here so there are no toilets in the classroom for grades three through five they'll be located in close proximity to those classrooms where the building is designed but not within each of the classrooms and then over on page seven grade 6 900 square feet pretty similar in terms of scope to grades 3 4 5. so i'll pause that for a second because that covers the classroom components there's you know i'll direct it back to mr

016martelly you know the chair if there's any questions or comments or thoughts yeah um can you address the teacher storage who are the three adults that's my question all of them have all storage storage that would include the paraprofessionals who might be working within that classroom i did meet with paraprofessionals and one of their concerns was they had no place to put their things so um that's a design consideration uh now in the design consideration the architects may come up with another place to put lockers for them whether it's a staff or somewhere we wanted to make sure we're remembering the other adults and like you know typically you'll see a personal storage space for the teacher and that's it so that's that was our intent so it's built into every classroom this is teacher

017storage for free imagine it would also include you have a student teacher if there are interns in the space and i know that the number of extra people in the room varies from year to year based on the children in that classroom but we thought three would be and you've done so you've had some experience with these is that pretty common it is becoming more common i think it initially it wasn't considered it was just the teacher basically standard what does the teacher need what do the children need and then you know going through this process from other districts we came to realize that we really need to attend to the other full-time staff members who are working with our children um yeah they deserve some of their own personal mistakes great thank you very

018much yeah i think that makes sense to provide space for the other full-time staff i'm just curious though in general so my understanding of my classroom works is kindergarten is generally a classroom teacher and a paraprofessional and then from first through six i thought just the norm would be one classroom teacher and that's it and i know there's more i know there are professionals in each class so my question is i'm thinking you could easily have two people and maybe the situation where you have a third intern student teacher how many of your classrooms actually have like three people right now because we're talking about seven times five so 35 classrooms basically we're just wondering of those whatever you have in order right now call it i think it's like 24 classes or something like

019that how many of you actually have three people at any given moment in the year i think it fluctuates right we have um learning support tutors who go into those classrooms in all of our schools we have a grade one ia who switches into different classrooms so you have a myriad of adults in and out how many need to hang a coat in a given year i think that makes reasonable sense to have a space to perform to provide for those things you don't want to leave a purse or you know a laptop bag you can put it away and um we've been included for a long time but when parents come in to visit that would also be something to consider okay i could see that i just i was thinking we don't actually

020we don't normally have over the course of 900 teaching hours in a year we don't normally have three people yeah all right got it you know that was part of the consideration that you know the chief the para might be hanging there putting their stuff in a different room but sure yeah now you said that we're out of space it doesn't mean that that those three people are in that room all day long yeah paris rarely are unless they're at a grade level where there's an assigned classroom [Music] during the design phase would be good is to make those additional ones probably flexible storage so you can hang them but you could also you can never have enough storage in your classrooms it's always a shortage that no matter what um or what we also

021have seen in schools where they've had lockers for pairs like the teacher workers when we go to lunch has like a concentrated area that they can you know see you know store their their belongings as well so that's another option for you know these additional just one thought do we do time cards does anybody do time prepared so even though our average class size is 18 if you look at highland right now we do have some classes at 25. so it's not out of the norm it's not out of the question that you would have a classroom that gets as many as 26 students but isn't a typical design you have storage and layout et cetera based on what we have in class so this is 26 the mass max class size you can see

022or those classes can't hold that looks i mean yeah we could push it to 30 right as as well if we wanted to but i don't know if that would change the square footage but yeah those are those are the exact type of things that you know we need to discuss in this especially for the furniture we're really driving at not so much on the enrollment technology we do but we've got to refine our process to look at homeroom seats homerooms and orange seats because when you add up your enrollment and you add up the actual number of home room seats usually the home seats will exceed your home and it can vary depending on the spec but having that full outfit for the ffme dan can attest to this when we were we did

023the first school in southwest orchard hill we came in we were projected for 576. we came up with 630 dan we had an outfit computer we took their computer lab off space and stole two or three from each and outfit an entire room with those extra two or three two or three in each grade without having to go out because lead times on this stuff is 12 weeks and to have those extras you know three or four there um you know or if you hit the bubble you can you know you build a new type of scenario and it exceeds some of those other spaces unfortunately it turns into general classrooms and like we need we need that classroom furniture as well so having that is definitely beneficial um [Music] can you use it for

024a variety of other things besides the kids i mean it's a kid's cubby right they're coming home where they put their jacket that's only this tall or whatever it is so the teacher could use it for a variety of other things like um supplies whatever it might be okay probably well we are we are recommending various one through six that those student companies are unlockers in the hallway because it saves space um in the in the classroom itself oh that's fantastic and we've done that in several other new school constructions where they can design the hallways wide enough to accommodate them but the teachers love it because all of that stuff that never seems to fit on the in the interior and we still do the interior cubbies for kindergarten but grades one through six

025those 26 we're talking about would be in the hallway and of different sizes for different age groups what's the benefit to that because i look at this literally you're seeing the wall on the so you get the window you have the classroom and then you've got cubbies or lockers here and then the wall is either to the hallway or the walls to the classroom either way that's space that's being filled by with jackets and books what's provides an entire additional wall within the classroom where they get thanks to a mother whatever instructional type of storage got it either cabinetry okay charts white the student artwork on the hallway walls so that comes down and that storage space goes up in the form of final cabinets or whatever it might be a little higher right yeah

026you do you can do um tack boards over they're kind of sometimes difficult you gotta be careful if they're higher but you usually say that but it's a little high but yeah we put in um as part of the art specs to include display cases in the hallway throughout the school so that there are places to display studentship work because of course you might see that visiting school adam um so uh my two questions uh firstly the sinks in the first and second grade do we have those now yeah oh we do um definitely kindergarten first grade in some buildings we have them in the second grade i can't attest to every building having it in second grade but yeah okay sorry and and you need i don't remember that when i was live um

027all right so then there goes that um so my second question is for the large screen interactive system um i know that we have been planning kind of for that converging in recent years the replacements so if you need for these two schools then the the cost that we've been planning for that already built in you know over the years that's not going to be partially built into the company for this for these projects or yeah um being new they'll be eligible so we certainly mean we see that pretty much in every project what will be important as we as we're finalizing your budget is uh speaking you know with your team rit folks with exactly what type of unit because for years in the past going with the elite short throws uh the absolute

028elites but now they're all converting to this type where right you know and on the technology it could be five or six questions oh yeah furniture ffa uh furniture fixtures and equipment sorry about that so basically it's anything if you take the building and you turn it upside down all this loose furniture is what we consider so it also includes again i.t digital equipment they can include maintenance equipment as well for it they can include small wares some districts will buy their one-to-one devices they're ineligible though so we really want to talk about that but you know how you use your operating much use project budget it ends up getting used you know in bonding but well it does happen this is a plus being able to buy these devices and have it these ones

029are definitely reversible so it's not this stuff that walks they don't remember 17 years ago whenever when you guys started the initial smartphone purchases capital cycles would just be including the budget because there's a big delta between a short throw in one of these um i think the prices are starting to come down yeah [Music] what are we doing for um assisted listening is in every classroom yes i didn't have a chance to read through it like you know there's um sound fields front rows and new systems some folks are coming out with but there's other equivalent in those we've just got to account for two good systems but making sure that i t budgeted great yeah the technology is going to continue to change over the next you know two years so yeah that's

030why you're not seeing specific like smart board we just wanted to try and make it generic so i would anticipate you know the interactive system would include some speakers which we know that became important you know so the key is it is reimbursable so you do want to do it at the time that you're constructing the school okay just hit on the lighters real quick the good thing about them being in the corner too one of the benefits we you know like to think about is hardening of that corridor um you know when you have lockers lying in the corridors it does provide another level of safety um you know we don't want to think of it that way but the reality is it does you know give another layer over the classroom as well

031yeah i mean it's functional but instead of it's a lot of our our years ago um some some quarters would be constructed with you know concrete natural units or brick of course that's very very resistant um nowadays a lot of its full formal frame gypsum board you know corridors because it's fast it's less expensive but unfortunately it's not as is resistant as you know cmu so having that those lockers five or six feet high provides that another layer of harden so that's another benefit um indirect you just mentioned lockers five or six feet high because i mean you're not gonna have first graders with like six foot tall lockers that they're trying to reach up just to be clear on that they might vary two tier ones here the challenge is gonna be providing enough

032lockers for all the kids and getting them in the proximal locations of the classrooms because you only have so many linear feet of walls so that becomes the a little bit of a challenge sometimes a specific layout typically scramble three through six would have stacked up you know two tiered lockers that are wider okay but for the younger kids it would be a single locker yeah with a seventh grader you can say go out to your locker and get whatever you need you can't do that for a second greater so there's some reservations there too all right so just moving along page seven there's a 300 square foot teacher staff room you know which includes things like um you know multi-function printer you see that we deleted copy we really don't use copiers all anymore

033so they continue to print from your device they do serve a copy function hopefully we're not using faxes anymore by the time we get to spaces are visual arts so you can see that there's a 1450 script but visual art classroom so that's bigger than a classroom but it's because it's used for you know a different purpose and i think it's commonly used across all the grades and then there's a visual arts auxiliary classroom which includes a kiln and i i don't want to speak to this much beyond that because i'm not the expert and then the next on the bottom of page nine general and instrumental music thousand square feet for that so um and then there's page 11 a music ensemble practice role and then on page 12. is that that would be

034the gym that's six thousand square feet you'll see on page 13 we eliminated is that this center so this is an example of something you know that was requested you know at a school level that was changed it was in favor of a larger gym the gym originally was 4 700 square feet we thought it's best to do a larger gym so that there is available seating and give up the fitness center so that's some of the give-and-take that was done before it got into the draft so there's no programming natural fitness center the fitness center wasn't just for staff that was for we saw uh cruising and all those physical education activities too that's going on well the other thing that we were conscious of tony is the fact that there's a lot of

035uh as i know most people in this room are really aware that there's a lot of demand from groups in the community for gym space and the original spacing was really tight got it and we can't do both because why you're already pressed on your space standard ratio already this is one um that we suspect the state would probably challenge um it's gonna be that give and take of we'll you know if you keep that you're gonna probably have to get something else up you're already kind of pressed on your space or we don't get reimbursed on it right that's the other option well that's the that's gonna be the big question when we go to meet with them with the changing of administration there is is how do they look at that because um

036there was a different attitude previously and are they going to let us build and take the hit on it because there'll be a hit to your reimbursement rate is what it would be if you did that so even though you know when we have in all school districts of country health and cultural education as possible applying to that well you have to give a gym but most elementary schools don't have a fitness room that we've seen can you speak at all to that fitness room well um i have never seen it included at the elementary level it's very common at middle school in high school and i think one of the things that the state would be asking is how does that space support the elementary physical education program and it seemed to me that

037the request was coming more so of interest as a benefit to staff to use which is very nice hey physical education correct i figured it was cool and as you know you could always ask tony i mean i'm not it's not something i would you know follow my style so i was kind of curious yeah i mean we're only giving you our experience i just want to reiterate that things are constantly changing so we can get to everybody no problem what's the advertising check like let's start with your high school day one of the documents i gave out in the package tonight is actually all our existing schools and what the size of the beach places are so that's a great question andrew yeah we've been uh we've been referencing this left right in the

038center to say all right well how big is it is is just under 6 000 square feet so that on one side you do have room for the bleachers that you push back so that gives you a sentence it's not the size of a high school gym but obviously just under six thousand square feet that's at the end of our range well we built um it it's a good it's a good size we built two of them down to snowington um it's six um all the ones so far in south windsor were that forty five forty six hundred and similarly then was saying um there's good size but there's limits there's no seating for any your you know realistically you're gonna use it for parks and rack in your program so it's just reality you

039know being able to say that but um with six thousand it allows you to put a full-size gym in there for your i don't know i could call new school but like 15 news and whatever they call them i know that before but the older kids above in early men's groups too above grade six can utilize those in a really you know suitable way um and there's room to there's plenty of room to play so it's a nice it's a nice size for it if you can you know afford to put it in your school because they end up being so small and everything complains that we can't use it for our programs and it's you know really you're pushing a wall a couple feet this way and you unwall this way it's a big

040box so the cost per square foot isn't as much as you know adding a classroom space for it is the divergence pass is certainly appropriate for an elementary physical education of course but the direct department wasn't happy with that yeah nor are many boards and town councils that want to see space in the school the gym space would be a demand to make an investment of this magnitude of the community and not be able to use it i understand why people would be upset with that i would just change the floors to the wood though in the six thousand squares the wood floors are definitely better for the larger gem it just gives you more you know almost like a high school feel but not being as big and you can themselves probably you won't

041but not in the bleachers [Music] those are used um all right so so to be clear that synthetic rubberized supporting plates that would not be for the 6 000 to change right now okay yeah we've seen it with both and the six thousand the wood is definitely just it's super sharp it performs better you know to heavy mesh yeah it's just it's it's about i think that's just my personal opinion i mean i guess if you did it with stunning and then so um if i'm reading this correctly this will be a genitorium yes right yes unlike the yeah these are going to be like about i think it's like six or seven feet you know on the on i'll say the wall side it just it's a big difference yeah the parents are you

042know you're sitting on the border looking through the small little window you're talking about chapman yeah or extra production chairs yes not auditorium there is storage included for chairs so it wouldn't be like pull out kind of thing it would just be like enough room for like a highlight you have enough room to put a chair around the basketball floor sort of that well you have your bleachers they're like saying for a bed you're getting your bleachers oh yeah actual bleachers thirty four or five rows okay at least the ones that we built over six thousand about five rows um with the divider um the plot the stage will actually right i'm sure there's probably a platform land let me express my platform but because the stage is higher and with a platform um i

043think it relieves us from our fire rating and sprinklers underneath if you have that storage you have the sprinklers a cost factor and in the stack of all the chairs these days are not on those nice carts from the good old days that really condensed storage systems now that'll go in your storage so that's right about the classroom spaces that the classrooms um grades one through six or nine hundred square feet how does that compare to our classroom spaces um i i have to check i don't know if i've done a direct comparison but uh oh this doesn't make our classrooms spaces bigger in many cases it does but i think these are average i mean there's a range on the existing classroom so i'm looking at chapman and there's a range of classroom spaces

044from 420 to 19 but that would include kindergartens which are typically larger and if you have the storage in the lockers in the hallway then you just freed up quite a bit great one of one of the things we need to take into consideration are the state standard space standards so the state typically thinks of a typical classroom in many products you can't get there because you just don't have enough space to accommodate that but 900 is usually what we aim for with the exception of kindergarten and pre-k which tend to be 11-12 so my question really goes to what were the what was the state standards back when our elementary schools were built are they 900 or are they less it's 900 a better square footage in most schools than than some of the

045rooms that we have it is we see a lot of districts with 760 like the high 700s low 800s you know that that was part of the discussion when we went through dog middle school was if you have to deal with the footprint that you have then you're never going to get class room sizes big enough to accommodate the furniture the flexible furniture lady yeah there are definitely challenges when they're doing a renovation i was kind of wondering if the state standards had before the square footage had changed over the years yeah i don't know how they did the stack of 1971 yeah i mean the standards today were developed just in 2015 so i don't i actually don't know if they had like a similar type of standard like a classroom to an x

046and you know so forth um one thing it does is it it gives you consistent classroom sizes because right now those you know some of the small roads are really swarming in some cases yeah i was impressed with the size of those atoms yeah they're they're good size and they'll get a little crazy just have so much stuff yeah that's cool the gym in the gym in the 6 000 we built will have retractable pull out bleachers and particularly about five rows and i think we see around 170 500 people i think total and what's the use for those it's for if you have a game um you know or you have a presentation sometimes your sensation you know instead of being on the platform you might be setting you know uh you know perpendicular

047to that um but it's really you know for you know your athletic games and exerting and it gives you more just more flexibility uh for you know community use you know as a whole so is that is that supposed to use it for assembly purposes in a gym so um you know some kids on the floor some kids in the bleachers if you have you know parents coming for those you know and sometimes you did a grade level meeting with sixth grade you wanted to get another class together you can have them all from the teachers for some kind of a special presentation so that can make total sense to me because what i'm envisioning is bleachers that are going down the length rather than the width and the width i think i'm thinking you

048have the principle standing in the middle of the width not the length the bleachers run the length so yeah so if you're having like a wall it's awkward yeah if this is your gym typically your platform will be maybe on this end yes right and one side will have bleachers it won't be on both of those bi ones so the far side will just have padding yeah the line will be six foot and then you'll have a divider you know we can you know those can vary um but the ones we put in our the the soundproof type dividers um so you can really separate there'll be a door between and you can have separate classes um you know for those but yeah typically one side and you can present this way so if dr

049solomon's here and you have you know folks in the bleachers and some kids on the floor they can reset long ways or you can present you know going this way too so it's a really flexible space you can use you know clearly school-related activities and meetings okay right all the time okay okay because those bleachers when they compress they're probably only i don't know two feet off from the wall at most the way they compress maybe even less so you know gives you a lot more room for your phys ed classes as well um you know having it but it's nice to have it just nice to have that benefit it gives you more flexibility on a long term you know basis yeah and i can i can i can support the idea that makes

050sense to me about going to save 4 700 to 6 000 square feet because there are a lot of uh non-elementary school age people whether it's you know high school students you know some sort of league or adults yeah i totally get that i'm wanting to use the facilities all the time particularly in the winter like for basketball freezing outside so i totally get that um but i do in terms of asking about the bleachers i'm really looking at this through the lens of this needs to be primarily for the elementary school kids that is how i believe that's how i see it and i do believe that the voters and referendum will be seeing it that way which brings you to my second point here which is just part of the fitness center uh

051having i appreciate having taken it out something like that makes it make it more difficult for me to support this because i i can just see somebody i see dumbbells here and i can see that be a talking point this is why you're spending money on dumbbells and i just think that that would become a problem right yeah i don't see why but i'm looking at this through the lens i want this to and i think that i think taking that out was uh yeah i don't think that would just work that well i think i should have mentioned i think this this is an iterative process so i know this is the first time that as group playing canadian board members are here seeing it so you know you have to adjust this i

052want to you know make a couple of passes to get it to where everybody's comfortable and then you know the other thing worth mentioning is that once these are done simulated passes a referendum so you know the design profession of that target has got to take these specs and design a building around it and there'll be flexibility you know within that design so you know as we go through that design stage you know there'll be discussions like this except a lot more detail and a lot longer which would be a great process to go through sure i hope i'm happy all right so um page 14. i'm just going to keep going if anybody needs to take a break or grab some fruit or cookies except you john help yourself library media center 2750 square

053feet you can see you know again i think this is fairly standard in terms of size for an elementary school for any size school yes but we will have a library media center so it's really the 27 plus the 2 plus the 400. no it's usually closer yeah i'm just like good question if i could um and there's not to be answered now but to anticipate purchasing new library books for these for bringing because a lot of clients get outdated i know the media specialist i think we predominantly bring what we have okay because we do keep our stuff relatively up-to-date okay okay good because you know when we purchased something we did in south winds or that was about 125 000 to fit out of you know those media centers and you know they're

054just outdated and we did with their ineligible costs you know their books themselves our books are ineligible to the state so it just it's also just good for our budget so if we had to you know be bumping up a little bit for that so that's good to know the other way i see that though i mean we sustain a quality library you know quality diversity library materials now in every building and we want to just the same sustain that now perhaps in a situation like the north end school we might have to supplement that because the size of the building is so much bigger and we'd be hard to really can't like pull all half the books out and do little and half audit who's going to pick what book we'd probably have to

055supplement that building but um norton i would think would remain pretty much the same okay but to go you know like i said from 300 kids to 600 kids you we're going to need more books i don't think yeah so maybe for the north then we just you know plug a number yeah for those 50 000 or something for books you know just the the placeholder and supplement yeah yeah at least and it all depends how the whole rest of your ffd budget shakes out that thing's going to move a lot and you know you don't have to stick okay at 2 million for furniture well you can move that and purchase other things it's just that we kind of try to budget for it but you can move them in different categories like you

056do with an operating budget or anything else same thing yeah i mean it's full of project budgets this is fiction you can't move oh we're good okay then we have a small breakout room uh you know meeting space is always tough in an elementary school or anybody's move really so you'll see a few places where there are you know meeting rooms a conference room with each of these buildings as well um women page 15 reading math coaches office 200 square feet and there were two of these and you'll see we've tried to keep to a standard so you'll see a lot of the you know school psychologists the school counselors trying to keep those around 200 square feet so there's consistency across the district the general education intervention services for reading and math these are

057600 square foot rooms but they do accommodate for adults working with students in those rooms and we would have two of those rooms we close there from one side but i apologize but um for all these um intervention spaces and work rooms um we plan it for any tech in there or even for future accommodations thing with that the instructional fall instructional spaces have the same package as a classroom okay so here we have the whatever interactive point forward uh okay good that's good we shall make sure because the designers they get into it if it's not in there like well it's an ad service i'm gonna pay more money for them to design something that should be in there you know even if it's a put a back box for a b and power

058for the future let's make sure it's framed or it's cheaper to do it in construction coordinate it with the furniture and stuff like that so let me clarify they aren't in the offices they're not in like the coach's office but they are in the international rooms yes like a small breakout room for example would there be you know one in there i i would suggest we at least put a comedy for future technology at least for like i said a back box that they can you know pull because otherwise you know getting wire mold which is you know i'm sure you see all over you end up having that in your building and it's like we should have thought about that so having that accommodation even if you don't buy it right away you could

059always have your electricians run power and pull that in or one-on-one assessments you know a parent wants to work with two or three children outside of the classroom so those would be spaces to sign out you know yeah everybody wants more places to do individual assessments yeah we didn't have them in one school and we started building i'm sorry like oh we want monitors here okay so just smoke scar tissue yeah so with the breakout spaces um is so the thought is to have them spread throughout the building yes or in like the general administrative area so within the attempt here is to be within the academic classroom wings so most and again this would be a design decision with the architects but what i was hearing is that teachers wanted these to be you

060know maybe one of the primary area one intermediate upper intermediate so that there are multiple options 600 square feet of room checkout rooms 125 the intervention services rooms those are the 600s without that i'm sorry because like i said that's the program for people working in small groups with kids okay yeah because the one the only one i really saw was i was kind of thinking about where you're walking through too little they had you had the bridges uh area right yeah sort of that conference area in between two classrooms but then you had the other spaces um that were sort of tucked behind the line in the library area right so is that sort of the thought where you can have something here some there you know it's not all centralized so cause i'm

061just wondering when if you're gonna space them out like that does that allow for enough flexibility if you had to add on if you know if the program changes 20 years down the road or something like that listen you know it's small enough specifically building in spaces like that in this corner instead of just like larger spaces that can be divided you know just a thought you know you align those lines then um i'm i'm looking here i can't seem to find him i know i took pictures uh five six years ago i went and did an instructional visit in wilton and they had in kind of saw something like this in guildford too where within pods they kind of had a larger outdoor button outdoors but the common area that was outside of the

062classrooms but i remember a dedicated classroom but they put like furniture out there to accommodate individual small group meetings in these common areas it's not some of them were more private than others but it provided flexibility as things evolved i thought maybe relatively cost effective way to provide conference in space but we could look into some of those other options but i don't know if you've seen stuff like that i i i've seen uh architects use what they call the core factor which is all right dedicated to hallways airways lollies all of the non-instructional spaces i've seen them use some of that space to carve out you know almost break out of spaces within the hallway or courtyard type things so that again would be part of the design yeah to say this is kind

063of what we we're looking for as many of these spaces as possible that could be used for flexible small group or in your experience in other districts is this this normal is this what other teachers are other districts are looking forward to have yes and again these breakout rooms are really in the general ed area because that's where you usually have your el teachers who are constantly testing their kids you know for the annual requirements multiple times a and then all kinds of other assessments that are going on and then when we get to special education you know they have more specialized spaces uh you know from the students they work with lincoln well speaking of special ed on page 16 is where we start with special services programs so you'll see that there's four

064special ed resource rooms 400 square feet each and then i'm just going to kind of run through these k through 6 ot pt and speech resource room and that was the way it's right here we would have two spaces one is a 500 square foot room for otp shared by two staff members and then a speech area which is smaller 200 square feet and then over at page 17 social worker psychologists speech area so you have four 200 square foot offices and then a 250 square foot counseling room and you just refresh my memory on the counseling room would be different than an office though uh i i learned that the counseling room would be accommodating small groups of students which is why we made that one a little larger okay but then we may

065have duplicated the speech line i would just notice that too because i haven't included my related services so we'll revisit that but when they just picked up a couple hundred and so that's kind of the special ed area for this particular school i'll pause that for a second because then the rest is just administrative spaces page 18 so we have the principal's office 250 square feet the assistant principal is slightly smaller 225 square feet conference room um you know during our administrative review you know we did change this to one 300 square foot conference room instead of two 200 square foot conference rooms without recommendation because there are other spaces that can be used within the building and we were looking you know trying to pick up 100 square feet for some other areas health

066services 650 square feet that's the school nurse's office again all these are pretty standard in terms of size the teacher work room on page 20. you'll see that there's another 300 square feet combining that with the faculty lounge which is on page 22 so we actually were able to come economize and pick up a little bit of spread footage by doing it that way and marlene you can speak to that a little bit because that's what you did at chapman i think where you combine faculty and a work room i mean i don't know what dan's thoughts were but we were able to do that i just took a storage area and turned it into a faculty room so i think the the only question i would have is are parents using the words as

067well no they do not okay is that that's been problematic if you have parent volunteers in the work room that's combined with teacher lounge maybe there's a way to design it in such a way that it's separated by the join that kind of thing yeah so you're talking about 900 square feet to address both of those programs that right that's i think a design i mean that's that's where the architects come in the expect say you have 900 square feet to like play with these two areas and then they come up with creative ways to make that work yeah some of the places like thinking about people's parents working in the main office and they had access to everything that they needed for copying and doing things like that yeah we were trying to economize

068and flex for the needs and our experiences at the local level and how we use things that's the whole purpose yeah exactly adam oh finally in the space you're referencing of chapman is that that larger room that's in the basement sort of behind the stairs it's like all nice and brown if i recall or something like that a storage space and made it bigger for people and updated it so the thought is that there would be two defined spaces now and not or there's 600 for like a lounge collaborative area everything that you need is in there you don't have to go just nicer than what i'm thinking right now the problem what you're missing adam is you have no idea what that space looked like before right right it was redesigned yeah this is

069the upgrade the next space on page 21 this is where um we needed to free up some space so we could hand it so food services area 2800 square feet for the cafeteria to see the little note there that's based on five lunch waves and i think there was agreement that that's a good size cafeteria for this many students however the kitchen uh food service director erica biagetti looked at some standards and you know feels very strongly that a kitchen at 1300 square feet for that that size um you know building in terms of enrollment is too small so yeah we borrowed spare footage from other areas and we took 1300 square feet we're pushing it up to 1950. erica still thinks that is too small so i think that's something that we'll continue to

070discuss but what about moving the right there we've got five lunch bags some will be combined [Music] we do that now in some spaces combining second and third or first and second so you can get 10 classrooms that's you might not 26 sometimes yeah so the formula that the state usually uses is the number of launch waves the student population divided by the number of launchpads tags 17 and a half square feet so i think i use five lunch waves and this is a little more than that so you're talking 670 students right what's that what is it so today well how much time do the weight have for lunch minutes for the younger students and 20 minutes for younger students half that time was probably fine right well i'm not happy well i mean

071yeah so i don't know if increasing there's a formula i guess that probably ergo is using the kind of size of the wave and the top location to be able to get through that door and maximize kids accounting and the number of lines right yes she has two pointed sails and she's the expert so you know because i kept asking the question you serve that many kids in 25 minutes she was more concerned about having more lunch lives because then you start serving at 10 in the morning that's the other side right right so what about so like i'm trying to be biased as soon as i i am a trained chef so yeah i wouldn't do it for full-time in the kitchen the restaurant business is different but eric has some of the extra

072on this the size of the kitchen this is also is there a separate storage area for freezers i guess america's looking for additional space and kitchen to probably think about uh storage and make sure she actually she's talked to other food service managers who are operating now in new bui yeah some bring food into elementary schools those are prepared like the high school or whatever and that the space requirement there would be different we try and prepare on site especially your north school that's so far away from yeah it looks like the transportation would be right about that north end school being relatively remote from like you'd have to prepare that at the high school i would think and when you look at the high school kitchen that's like beyond dated and then to get

073things all the way to the north end that's not happening um yeah i was trying to figure this all out my head i'm i'm thinking about like highland right highland is supposed to it's supposed to be a kitchen for 900 students something like that yeah um that's only a little larger than the current northern cafeteria so while it's 400 square feet bigger um the kitchen at what was it okay 1900 is it always are we going in 1900 or 1300 no we're we're in 1950 right now 1950 um okay so there are so that'll be significantly larger than what's that island right okay that's what we're looking for it's outside walls could be a corner of the room could be a walk-in like this design you can you know yeah that's how big that is

074yes like that's large that's that's what that's like thousand square feet the kitchen yeah yeah yeah that's about whatever coming from yeah that's what i think let me see you know how much oh yeah work area is including food storage so just to clarify right now highlands a little over 2 000 square feet in the kitchen right because we've got the food prep area 1161 the receiving area the dry storage those are 455 each okay yeah so that's all broken i have to add those up and then the wic is the walk-in cooler so island's about what we're recommending okay and how many staff normally work in that area is that like five or more yeah well in the kitchen area and then you have a couple point sales folks okay how many lunch rings

075are highland i don't know well i'm just looking at chapman's existing cafeteria well i don't know because i'm yeah yeah that blue section right underneath it has the stages about 2000 square feet so yeah i think it's just the floor and the cap is at the 37.92 but i this this is kind of the exercise you just illustrated what we were trying to work through right right what is that space compared to other district spaces just to kind of conceptualize it what are the numbers relative to those numbers and we know that we kind of got the sense that 1350 was too small to get those kids through like saying it's important so we both was concerned i she's feisty i see the way dan's just shaking yeah the program on page 22 we're just

076about any of the end here so the faculty lounge we started talking about it we combined this with future work on page 23. this is an add-on um but we did make room for technology work within a storage area of 200 square feet because of the number of devices that we have in our schools at every student's hands now you know just a place to be able to update set up new equipment store the equipment as the end of the year it's it's a small ass but it's sorely needed so we did add this you know sorry spaces like that but it's it'll be functional and then custodial space 150 square feet which includes you know some locker spaces for the staff a couple of desks you'll see the next section on storage 800 square

077feet of instructional storage 600 square feet of general storage i'm i'm assuming that's pretty standard it's probably going to be too small as well i'm sure but there's never enough some of that is shared storage for instructional materials for two grade levels so within their near their classrooms there would be a 200 square foot space for them to put things like science kits and other kits that i don't need in the classroom all the time and there's one of those for each that sixth grade was initially designed to be in the sixth grade team room right so if we're changing that to be something that we have the sixth grade team and we're gonna have a fine place different stories and we talked about using that sixth grade team room as a general team room

078not limiting it to sixth grade although if it's built in the vicinity of sixth grade then it might get the most used there so we didn't eliminate that space we just so i think that's where that came from the request for collaboration and a place for their stuff well that only gets more discussion yeah thanks tim thanks yeah uh with regard to this i'm trying to envision the storage uh 200 square feet what's going through my mind right now is the high school so if i recall correctly uh mr noel and mrs richardson had classrooms right next to each other and in between there was i don't know for the storage space or what but it was probably let's say the classroom so then all of a sudden you have a 30-foot strip that's seven

079feet wide so there's 200 square feet and it was basically being like used as an office in between those two is that the storage space you're talking about something like that or is that impossible probably but where are they located well those are sacks i'm just wondering how it turns out we're calling it we're calling it you know storage space and just wondering what is this you got two things you have storage and square feet construction storage right there and technology and storage yeah you know what i'm just saying if it's i mean 30 feet by 70 would be the 200 foot storage space it's about that amount of space does it end up getting put like in between two classrooms like it's a slice or it would be the architect you know they'll have

080that amount of space to work with so yeah typically i see them because they're shared by two different grade levels they tend to be making the first second grade wing somewhere so that they all can access that um but that's where you know what you get into the design phase the architects will use this document to say okay we've carved out the equivalent of 800 square feet for instructional storage it's been recommended parcel enough before 200 square feet but somebody might get 150 square feet and somebody else might get a little more depending on the layout of the school and where they can find this [Music] i guess the only thing the only thing that sort of concerns me is the long term here like what i was just envisioning i'm not saying that this

081is what was inviting 30 years ago when i was in high school but where the rooms just sort of morph over time from one thing to another we have a youth center down the road that was a youth center it was not for park and rec offices that's what it was designed for and it changes over time then we have to have the yellow house and these things just change and i just want to be understanding that this is the real intent is for storage and it's not to slowly be taken over by whoever is right next to it that's the intent not saying what will happen but well if you look at the existing schools they're using every single corner closet that was not intended to be a greeting office or marlin you know

082they were not designed for that sure because these programs didn't exist when those buildings were built so i don't think any of us can promise that space is being designed with certain attempts will never be used for anything other than no absolutely not i would expect that but the discussions that are held tonight and at this time could be looked back in 10 or 20 years and say well this actually was not the way it was supposed to be right and i think that's important just to point that out i mean as a general statement i think what's being designed here is right right sizing the schooling right sizing the space 200 square foot about a month later there's a new function i mean i've been amazed by you know how some people have been

083stuck literally in a closet that they call an office went to high school to belittle i mean yeah okay next page 23 through page 27 um i'll just make a general comment here that that's section nine of the expenses required um that includes things like the building system that we'll know in particular the bottom of page 23 on page you know we did add some language about renewable energy and net zero emissions being considered as part of the building systems we don't have to talk about it tonight but we want to worst with that we can because again it's it's part of the specs so you know it's going to be the state wanted to see that in order to keep it eligible so if it wasn't in there they said it'd be a challenge

084to them they just need to see a word so if we you know whatever you do they can support it and the rest of the items related to the building technology security phones those you know were edited you know not only by dan and myself but also you know my pop-up on the technology side and rich on the facility side so we did get you know further input adam has a question okay um is there a website or or something uh some documentation on what leaked silver means i thought at that i thought the beginning of this process and now it says silver and i just want to know what that translates to as far as you know what the buildings need to look like that's all right yeah so the connect the connected high

085performance building requirements basically state connecticut took um from i think and adopted basically their lead silver requirements and from i've been told the same thing except instead of applying for a plaque and all the paperwork to say this is you know that they supply concealed silver we go we do all the same things except for apply for the paperwork and pay for the money that clock to put up for that that's state law that's required by lawyers you have no choice in that in that map now whether you go above and beyond that that that's not just like the record what the requirements are for lead silver except that i can just google that i can't itself it's a lot of fun reading there um but yeah it is in the statute and something exactly

086that well yeah you'll find it very easily you'll find very easily all right yeah we're actually trying we're gonna we're um we're gonna bring in a consultant at ces uh their mvp consultant they do a lot of schools uh maybe the next video where they weren't available tonight unfortunately um but very very kind of answer some you know what are some of the technologies that are being used you know currently in their area to speed on that so we thought that would be a good idea to do that soon oh sorry all these acronyms right yeah mechanical electrical and plumbing so you know just i love you all i'm saying architect and they do the floor plan they're they're basically the i'll say the profit master of all the consultants you have civil engineers structural

087engineers um uh interior designers are really you know they're they're part of the architecture i'll say a theme um and then mechanical electrical plumbing that includes fire protection um your id infrastructure typically acoustics because there are requirements for acoustics or sound transmission coefficients and the hack system's got to be you know insulated and quiet as well so but uh yeah apologize for that thanks for asking tim thanks thank you um yeah the telephone system so i already have has cell phones now but we're putting in phones in each classroom does that make sense and that's what i'm asking security yeah emergency security your public address system typically tyson with your phone system these days your master clock system they're they're really you know super integrated with each other the other thing i know i know

088but you know the other thing about our phone system is that it does have e911 capabilities so if someone picks up and closed from the high school classroom 82 that information was transmitted to 9-1-1 and that's important for first responders they want to know exactly to the extent they can where a call is coming from you don't get that the cell phone's going to cell tower [Music] you know it is used as the official phone number so you know somebody's leaving a voicemail for a teacher you know you don't want them to do that on the teacher's cell phone and just managing the logistics of that yeah would be impossible i mean it's not a weird question but i just don't think it would work in the school setting no i i get it i

089just think i think somebody could look it would be like you know obviously yeah um and so my second question is on the heating and cooling which is um so thank you very much for adding the point in here about that then under human coins as heating coins should be produced with natural gas with conventional boilers consider including geothermal wells for energy efficiency and cooling systems we're talking about natural gas here do we have the ability to hook up to natural gas at either these new locations well you know i mean i'll answer that generally at norton which is the existing building there is no natural gas that's close by well there's no natural gas along the street there is natural gas that would probably cost us it was eight hundred thousand three years ago

090to be able what was that in connection with the state doing work on that road no those aren't intersections not though that was taken was doing work on the road we asked we met with and kind of pushed to say hey you know they're tearing up the road you know that would be the time to bring in natural gas and it was they didn't want to do it without us paid for it essentially yeah so at the time we passed on that um at the new north the new north end elementary there is natural gas it's the same issue though it's not that close yeah but the recommendation is if we can get natural gas get the natural gas and then the scheme of a building project you know if it's a million dollars and

091somebody's got to do the calculations on whether that makes sense to do but in the scheme of a you know 100 million dollar building project if you can get natural gas i would certainly suggest that we consider it because otherwise we're going to be using you know oil heat which is not ideal for a large building and that doesn't mean we can't have other methods of producing heat but you'd always want to have a backup in the school building so the preference is natural gas potential identity but here's the so here's the hitch all right 200 to take one mile i don't know how far it is exactly 2 100 million budget is probably doable but i don't know and i don't know if anyone here does know do they have the capacity there because

092if they don't have the capacity then it would probably have to go to pura and pero could reject it and say we're not expanding it because it doesn't benefit the entire uh all the great all rate payers i'm just adding that to the discussion like so what we're doing here is we're saying natural gas for renewables and i don't even know if that is a real discussion it could be oil versus renewables and i think that's a slightly different discussion because the natural gas is not going to be picking up particular matter all the nasty socks and knocks and all that sort of stuff natural gas is sort of clean the oil isn't and i just think i want to see us move forward past all the bad stuff in the air that's the same

093my same concerns like diesel school buses it is there right we can get past it so my simple request is if we could just find out is it actually possible to get natural gas to those two locations because if it's not that it's just not part of the discussion it might be possible i have no idea or whatever we want to add but no absolutely we could but i think that's a slightly different discussion in terms of environmental health whether you have all that bad stuff out there and i prefer to avoid that i'm gonna just so we don't mess it that decade we have decent slight numbers but we i think we want to put that separate to identify that um so we know what it is we can make a call anything else

094on section nine yeah i just had a question on uh security um there's a lot about the interior of the building not a lot about the exterior um and so is that on purpose so it's not that like the sources and methods kind of thing or it's not just not been thought of you know like having you know you can't be outside yeah cameras cameras on the outside or uh you know that's not vehicles from one right in the building and all that kind of stuff yeah i mean there's well some of the items that are in the intuition like the camera system we certainly have exterior cameras like we do now you know don't mention that you know we would have to lock down strobes on the exterior of the building there's going to

095be certain standards that the state just requires or the architect you know as a matter of course all schools get certain security measures so this is intended it's pretty general it doesn't mean it's it's what's actually going to get designed and i know that just like the entrance says they have to be blast proof that's part of this back i mean can you just talk about what's kind of standard for security yeah so it it it varies widely um unfortunately with with sandy hook um they had to come up with the ssic measures school search infrastructure council you can look that up um they have the guidelines there that specific topic um yeah i wouldn't put anything too specific in here because it becomes a public document and you want to protect that but that

096whole discussion is all you know you you have to put together you know obviously fire police your security other community kind of that becomes a whole meeting in itself during the design process um but also you know looking like you said the interior and the approach and also obviously on the interior so by law we have to follow ssic measures and there are requirements and recommendations um there's a difference between the two and some of them are costly measures of course they get something like what we're gonna put you know um uh ballistic rated glass and that's probably the term i would use is ballistic rated uh in old school well that's very pricey and that's something you think you're going to want to do we need a comedy for that um may or hardened

097entrances you know and they'll use different types of technologies mostly at the entrances sometimes you know you'll be discussing and look at maybe the cafeteria you know larger assembly areas maybe the media center if it's on the first floor um i would certainly encourage to keep the media on the first floor because you have to if you for that that i wouldn't recommend putting too much um you know i i think if any if anything um maybe we put just comply with ssic you know requirements or something like that you know um but law will require it anyways so right as jeff says that's a really high level confidential offline meeting during the design process with the the town safety officials the architects so it is a little bit intentional that this is made are

098a lot intentional but this is big yeah and we try not to be too specific anywhere within the ed spencer because you're going to get into the i mean that's really a design piece but to chuck's point we could add a statement just to comply with you at to stay in federal mandates and they're already so that kind of covers that actually yeah yeah and anybody any any architects this goes implied they all know that's all right because most of the stuff that i'm thinking about is actually going back to the old uh the middle school design from 2015 or whatever that was how they designed they were like all the administrators on the upfront so if there was at least a say called a frontal attack everything is funneled to a single point almost

099where you have natural observation yeah administrations coming in you see the perimeter you know but you don't want it so hard that it obviously looks like a prison i mean it's trying to use but there's a lot of creative ways to um you know putting you know you see these you know benches that are concrete benches for sitting but they're actually bollards that prevent a car from you know coming you know from the front entrance right like that gotcha and then thanks uh page 28 it has access so are we ruling out the rear access i'm sorry so let's talk about [Music] development uh playgrounds and stuff like that [Music] i hope that you keep in mind uh charging for electric cars just to build for half a million of them around the country and

100i do think this is going to probably change the next few years over the years [Music] what's um it always becomes a balance of how many you need for your staff but that's somebody that publicly wants to come in charge during the daytime when you're in operations right that's the part now you're just talking about that you know you know is it through there because the planes and zodiacs are starting to pass regulations that are so many spaces you have to have so many but when you get to a school function during the day you may say you need 10 volts that that's the discussion yeah so honestly i think that's i think that's open for debate what it is right now you guys should have to pay for it i mean bottom line i

101mean there's a logistic issue there with you know how that occurs what exists in connecticut right now is a lot of free available charging the operating costs would be worn by businesses or organizations and the capital costs are based important by the state and it was you know negotiated agreement we'd give you this for free the product that you paid for it ongoing for three years is what the actual deal was although this three years has passed on most of them but i'm i do believe that a lot of the charging stations will be charging people money in the not so distant future i actually took my uh electric car out to newport this past summer and the place i charged up was uh i had to pay probably like three dollars to charge up

102yeah um also there are there are some of those companies out there that are doing that yeah there's also slow and fast charge nice charge should be more expensive so hey i was wondering on our other school districts designing the ed charting stations plus science lately valley yeah that was the discussion it was south winds are in it because the planning and zoning again i was saying they they there they passed it that you know a certain ratio kind of can't you know accessible spaces but dr carter's concern was like well you know this isn't a public charging station for one word in school we don't want to always have them in this chart so that was kind of the so what we did is we put the infrastructure in for them you know so

103they can expand it but i think we'll put in three there um i think we decided on at the end is to put three you know what's reasonable for you know staff because you know it's really who you're providing them for so it's just a logistic discussion sure you can make it available through id access by the time you build it you know yeah yeah once you put all the conduits in the parking lot and put a you know put a home run boxes you know if you have to bring it to the building that's the main thing actually you don't want to be tearing up parking lots after the fact that it's like you said about the boxes in the classrooms it's just over that that stuff's cheap to put in when the holes

104open right you gotta rip it up after a fact that that becomes another two inch you know pvc pipe that's cheap you know over the grand scheme it's the back backfill and then paint everything and one thing i have to mention on page 29 we talked about landscaping there's a big movement right now in town about implementing these species planted on all public spaces i'm sorry native species and all public spaces so environmental commission education they want to be sustainable i mean if it's not native right you're surprised what's not native i'm learning a lot a lot there's probably a lot of my art for muted right yeah the the tough part with landscaping honestly though is that with the kite guy performance it's tough to put it like like to keep up your landscaping

105you need water and the problem is you get hit on that on the green counts for watering so it it there's this balance and then you can't use the keys pest signs or designs so you're going to tell your front you're going to it's going to take two years to get a really nice one at these schools we're going to open up why it's got crabgrass well we're finishing it in the spring we're playing it but you can't use the chemicals that you want to get like we do at our house it's going to be a challenge so don't be surprised by that but it'll come in eventually it just takes a while it really does unless you put inside the next lawn is not natural so if we are trying to avoid some species

106basically a logical extension is avoiding that wash which we're going to have it's playground so that's always a challenge just bringing the landscaper back in you know you want to cut for that opening day and nice and green and plush but then there's crabgrass and we're just cutting crabgrass you know once you cut it fresh it looks okay you know it's always a challenge so is it that we're gonna do the next school now also wrap up here the next school will be really quick so you tell me how much you want to do so page 29 and 30. this is the summary of all the spaces okay so we just went through all the spaces so just look at page 29. we're at 65.75 square feet that becomes the important number for chuck and

107john from colliers to analyze and make sure based on the projected enrollment we're within the right range so you want to touch on that really quickly chuck yeah i mean essentially the goal if you go to the state um they want you to be 100 i mean the space standard relationship which is you know it says square footage times the number of kids and so it's a reimbursement calculations a little bit everybody kind of mistakes like oh they won't let you build that it's really a reinversion any fraction thereof that you're you know above that um technically they can take that percentage say if it's 90 of it and apply that to your reimbursement rates 0.9 times whatever you know reduce your reimbursement rate that's applied to all your eligible costs a lot of folks

108look at it's not going to pay for them that you build kind of sort of it's actually a reimbursement reduction so what's important um is you know we want to get back with the state take a look at it and um unless they give us a space waiver to make the rest of it eligible and we'll make the argument there's certainly going to be some areas that we say hey because of the programs we need like the rc program right um we want it all to be eligible but it's really important to understand that when we're talking about the budget for the project it impacts the taxpayers and what your bills estimated to be if we don't have that space waiver we have to really include and go you know the high side is we're

109estimating x without a space waiver if we get it it'll reduce it and make more costs eligible uh for that but until we actually have that in from the state you're always going to be at risk of giving a reduction in your reimbursement rate so that's why it's important to try to get as close as we can to your space standard um i very rarely see it i mean we did it pleasant valley over just below scratching your head wondering how we did it but um with the larger schools it makes it a little bit easier too you know the smaller schools especially 50 60 000 i think it's really tough these days because all the four programs you need in a 800 student school meeting at 300 student schools still you know the same

110thing called special programs but you know i think we're working towards that and trying to whittle it down and that's where this discussion of you know it's the give and take and do you know do we want 1200 you know square foot fitness room well that's going to bring it down in percent and the states but whether or not they're going to let you do that that's the next question we really don't know that with this new administration if they're saying because what they get concerned about is you push on the priority list you know you don't have a space waiver your the um your legislators can go in and submit not withstanding legislation to make that eligible and it becomes law that office then um doesn't have any they can't say that about its

111laws you know um in years past is not withstanding legislation so that's why they've been safeguarding you getting on the priority list so much because of the emancipation you're if you're not right size i'm not pulling out because it's gonna cost the state can i get more money and india is right with that and so we just wanna just hope so we can so i mean but just as a general statement for the expected enrollment because i know we don't have final numbers yet from slr but we think we're on the right ballpark for that projected enrollment at the 65 000 square feet we're close for so for norton um where we project it we take that value we call it core factor we were saying that dan's mentioned a couple times circulation means 1.43

112and that that tells us where we're at compared to the space standard and so with that program or about your space standard on 669 kids is a little over 86 000 square feet um with the program as it is now we're about 93 000 square feet so that calculates about a 93 standard ratio so we take 0.93 multiply it by the reimbursement rate of um of 35.72 you know and do the math and it brings it down a couple a couple points um you know for that you know take it down to 93. two percentage points two and a half percentage points you know multiply that find your eligible costs you know 50 uh report i think we had a range of a high and low range between 88 and 96. yep so you're right

113there yeah we're gonna yeah the um school it doesn't really say about that yes so i'd have to go back to the north then it's going to be higher than our high end because we did push in darcy right the other factor um that we've been talking obviously with the executive committee is is our cost per square foot um our recent bids are up pretty uh pretty dramatically i don't think that's a surprise to anybody given what the economy is doing um so that's going to be driver and and matt bowman obviously brought that up you know a couple times during the process and valid questions just we didn't know what it was going to be we our basis on recent bids from november um so they're about as new as we can get we're

114touching base with our construction manager partners and estimators to see if there's anything else changing the other factor we're going to need to discuss is um escalation and what percentage is right now it's 78 we're saying do we carry that for three years out is that reasonable that's a discussion we just need to have um and an amount of contingency i think we kind of talked about those in the past so just some factors that require discussion holistically leadership i thanks david yeah so if i heard you write just a few minutes ago you were saying that you know we're at 5 000 75 the two numbers i thought you said a second ago like eighty six thousand ninety three thousand because you have to take sixty five thousand right multiplied by one point four

115three so we're at eighty six thousand and i thought you said ninety three thousand for the number of students so that to me is sounding like we're within there so this is your space standard for what the state looks like for 669 students for your grade ranges they're saying no reverse 86 397 square feet the current spec is estimating you'll that you want to build 93 365 so you want to build lower than what they're willing to reimburse right now okay okay so that's what i was yeah that's what i'm wondering about so i mean does this get into a situation where it just starts getting gained because i'm looking at the gym and it says 800 square feet a thousand square feet of chair and office storage so we just say all right we're

116cutting a thousand square feet off give us the full reimbursement for all this and then oh we're gonna put a storage container over here next to it after we're done with everything i wouldn't go that far no it requires a discussion with the state um it's it's a it's a very organic process um i i think the team the administration is still working on it but at certain point it's kind of pencils down let's go to the state go here's where we're at this is where we want to bake and we walk through and it is kind of a negotiation they're going to test us and go you know they've seen a million of these things so they're going to know where to look they're going to go do you really need escort footage can

117you justify it we're going to talk about it they're going to there's probably a suspect some give and take and they're going to say whereas a letter first space waiver that's what we can support or not and um you know and they'll give us a an idea of what they think they can do again different administrations so we gotta see how that's gonna play out is it we're planning the building to be where that is needed for the students your plan for what you believe you need for your programs the spaces state connect it says well our space centers say x now it's somewhere probably in between there so because we could spend markets well you could but they yeah basically you know as far as the homeroom seats i don't know if that's what

118you're referring to um because i don't see like where is it they don't really look at that that's kind of a nice little secret that i use because it's like okay you're you know we did i think uh i think pleasant valley is 803 and i think i counted like 950 seats but we're with the space station right [Music] and i was doing that i kind of fell across that to be honest i was like oh this is kind of interesting like the actual homeroom disease are some key a lot of cases exceeding the projected enrollment you know um it all depends on your sectors you know that utilization study that dan's been working with you know with mike zuba they all kind of come into play um okay so it's going to be a

119discussion we got to be in the mid-90s at least historically we have for them to talk to us here below 90. they'd be like go back to the drawing board and come back when you're ready but that's because the old regime was allowing it was permitting 86 they weren't like on a percentage basis are saying not you know what percentage basis ratio if you're below 90 percent they would challenge like no you got to right size and get closer to the space state okay so i think it's coincidentally you're talking about percents and i have this yeah the number's 86 um instead of you know through legislative uh language and we're not that far off right no we're not that we're not that far off it's those little slices and little cuts here and there

120until you get to the point where you listen we can't this is why we need it um i mean michelle's gonna put she's seen it and she's gonna know where to push and you know she's gonna i know you got a couple more questions she said to me it's not my program i don't know how to do it um but you know she will she'll push back a bit and um you know then it's always a challenge in the design you know the designers are you know um you're gonna look at your corners like well they're not as wise as we want well it's the space standard it's always a give and take you know you say your cafeteria your kitchen specialist they want a bigger kitchen well it might be you have to give

121up a little bit you got to give up a little bit this person's going to give up a little bit to get us wherever you need to be that's and what's going to happen they're going to go through the programming that dan's going through and architect's going to come in we're getting like well this isn't what we discussed with dan hanson well when we get into the design you're you know the fitness room well i had to come out how quickly can somebody just explain what cape cod style curve is it's at a 45 degree angle i googled it so like from the road up to the curb it's like a 45 degree angle so that plows don't flip the curb they can just kind of they're they're basically now little curves so instead of

122having a sharp curve like emergency personnel you can drive small granite court so if you give me five minutes i'll explain the difference between norton and northampton is gonna go the only difference is that the north end school is exactly the same as normal with the addition of birth to three so all the spaces are exactly the same except for the items we described on pages 17 through 19. and so those spaces um are the birth tree resource center 100 square feet for a d3 office 300 square feet fourth degree secretary office 200 feet then the early intervention center 1100 square feet four classrooms and an intensive ed classroom of 1100 square feet the delta between the size of the two buildings because we're adding in essentially the dorsal program that has an additional 650

123square feet so it's north plus 14 650 gets us to 79 725 is where we are currently you know as chuck said the most important thing here is when we did the original plan from school modernization the darcy program is not included and so when we compare the budget of this building that includes the darcy program it's going to be higher well we're down because the presentation that planning communication is 20 000 square feet well it will be when you take the 14 000 times the 1.43 you're still around that that that 20 000 or so is that quarterback we're talking program versus building areas and stuff got uh yeah i think primarily because of course you know is probably the number one factor um and then the others talk about and um you know

124be like transparent i like you here's what is sad i mean we used to set them up side by side and go here here's a high and here's where we're at now we highlight here here's something it's square foot escalation and they're going to be continuously that's what those numbers and square plunge and i think people are going to ask why we put darcy in this program first i'm going to remember the exercise we went through so highland that's really important in the categories listen we're just going off the space stand calculation we're not programming the building and you know our memories are short and you know say we didn't analyze it during the sfc portion of it and it seemed to indicate we could but obviously we went through that exercise that it doesn't

125so i'm thinking it might be a good exercise to shout between the cips that there's school would require as well as the operating costs for that school i mean we'll make that money up as a district or as a town relatively quick by building that 15 000 square feet across the school okay so that's iteration one done that's so my questions are about the external on the uh the north campus is that i know that when you when you tour darcy one of the the biggest well not one of the biggest but one of the things that the staff always talks about is the great trails and stuff in the woods that are in behind carson and i know that there are nature trails literally across the street from this new site and i wasn't

126but i wasn't sure if there was a way to be able to incorporate those trails sort of maybe in the same way as there are darcy and then the second part would be um sidewalks like the norton property there are sidewalks all over the place but there aren't any at the north property um and you know that you know we have a lot of their houses up jarvis street but i'm sure will want to be districted into the walkers um and you know there's new developments going down the other way uh for walkers that way too so i wasn't sure if that's something that has to be considered for this is that something that can be facted into construction of that property or is that something that the top is responsible for like a future

127date or something so um the for the project it's the the state supports basically the project limit so anything outside this property actual property line even if it's right in front of it is ineligible it's just a blanket and it doesn't matter what type of project but when you start extending beyond up the street and then down the street those you can build them but they're going to be ineligible as well so whether you do them an hour later i think that needs to be looked at kind of in a master plan type of way to go where it would be because you get that sidewalk and it just dead ends into nowhere right and that means i'm sure you've all seen them but there's that's that's potential but on the actual site yes you

128can put those in that's not factored in you could have potential walkers with those sidewalks yeah well outside the project limits the blob when coming in from like the drives and will come will bring right up to the building there'll be sidewalks for that yeah once you get outside i'll say the site proper that's typically a town project um most most you know most projects for that so unfortunately if you don't have the infrastructure there already now you're talking about the cip project for the town because the north property is basically sort of like virgin ground you probably have a lot of business where are we with the traffic study um john do we have any idea from slr on the traffic study i have not heard anything back uh chuck i can follow up

129with them tomorrow on that um i believe that they have the po i know there's an issue or challenge with respect to the wording that was added uh to theirs and to um leggings um of eos their proposals so i'll follow up with arnett and sean and see if those were issued i have not seen it myself but i'll double check on that thanks sure okay i'm not sure this question may be for you the property we do the town owns property on that bridge up there uh so west of marion is all the way out uh it's two different parcels yeah is any of it is any of that parcel is there access like directly across yes from this power collateral across the street from the school okay yeah no i think i think

130i know i think i know exactly where it is yeah i've been up there but i couldn't recall exactly the location i'm just curious could that get incorporated into the school property well you you don't know the property um so i think it's probably probably more of a policy with you guys of crossing the street bringing kids across the street you know issues it's time on property so i'm just wondering in terms of the budget and getting state reimbursement as far as development that'll be totally there's no real estate reimbursement for any improvements okay that's fine yeah outside the property line so they would consider that a separate parcel um for that i mean unless there's a big change but i would expect no no that's fine i figured um yeah and i certainly would

131hope i mean i would think that i i would like to see sidewalks there i would like to see you know a crossing guard there because marion does get some pretty fast traffic but i certainly would like it to you know sort of falling out what adam was saying about the kids if they could go for a field trip go for a walk whatever it might be across the street at night turn that to you anything all right thank you everybody