NHCS Board of Education Policy Committee Meeting | January 23, 2023

001foreign before like um is there anyone else that we're waiting on Malcolm control is over here um well in that event I will go ahead and call this meeting to order for our policy January 23rd uh 2023 meeting thank you all for being here um I'll first take a motion to approve the agenda I move Madam chairman to the agenda do I hear a second second okay discussion I'd like to add policy 2302 remote participation in board meetings okay would you like to add that after Personnel files we can or we can wherever I mean if we want to go in numerical order but actually 2230 is out of order so it doesn't matter put it where you want I just don't want to run out of time okay okay personnel file so we can

002add that to the agenda or do I hear a second after Personnel after personal file so policy 2302 I'd also like to add to the agenda a closed session for no longer than 15 minutes prior to the discussion with policy 3620 do I hear a second second all in favor any discussion any discussion okay um so we're going to have a closed session prior to extracurricular activities again for no longer than 15 minutes just making my notes Here and then um I put on their committee meeting dates and consistency I know this is not our Standard time that we meet and so I just want to acknowledge and thank everyone for being here today because I know there's a lot of gears in turn in motion with this so after discussion I know that we

003typically meet the second Tuesday of the month and I wanted to kind of hear from the committee if that's something we can continue to do but potentially at a later time I'm going to suggest around 10 A.M um if there's any discussion with that yeah I did the um did you have any idea on the the timing like one hour two hour three hours I mean I don't really think we need a three-hour meeting and we really have not even been using two hours for the past couple meetings because we've got the whole manual adopted so um you know I think we need to decide what our um what are parameters what our parameters are just so we can always end early but it's um it's I mean it's unprofessional to end plate I mean

004I would suggest a two-hour meeting and I'm open to hear back from everybody that's been part of it um again with the hopefully the intent to end early but the acknowledgment that to block off that time to respect everyone's time from 10 to noon typically on the second Tuesday if that's so Dr Faust and team is that is Tuesday at 10 o'clock does that work into the big scheme of things it's kind of basically where we always have done it oh yeah we're all with the Nets already blocked off okay okay Miss Bradford does that work for you yes thank you and Miss crabill does that work for you yeah okay so then um as we move forward we'll consistently meet the second Tuesday at 10 A.M otherwise um needed so the first policy that

005I I'm sorry not why we're in that so um since we didn't have that um already decided for the next board meeting coming up which is February 7th um are we still going to have the items that we've talked about here on that board meeting we typically have at least three to four weeks for the public to and staff and everybody to weigh in so that is that normally that's what and that going forward that will happen but I'm just wondering how we want to approach um these ones were sent back to committee and I sent I personally sent most of them back so we've had a lot of time for public input and discussion so I believe that moving forward will um do the will of the policy committee to whether or not it

006gets presented to the board if it gets moved uh to the following policy meeting in February first for me does that work for you what works which one move forward February okay um just whatever comes out of this meeting to either move forward or to keep up for the next policy meeting but um with the ones that are have been called they have been in discussion with policy so that brings to the first policy we also just acknowledge um our principal rep who's here with us today Mr Richard fortan um assistant principal at College Park Elementary so thank you for being with us as a representative from NC Papa or local Papa thank you for having me yes thank you for being here um so as we do our first order of business in 3

007300 I'm pulling it up on my tab I had sent this back to the policy committee so they're in the time of sending it back in December to now there's been a couple of things that I wanted to add and kind of get the will of the committee prior to addressing so the first thing that and I can see here um the draft the first thing I wanted to add is in section a paragraph one it talks about instructional day for changing classes homeroom lunch and I included the words recess in there as well as pep rallies and similar non-instruction so that would be the first thing that I wanted to avoid address because that became a conversation as far as whether or not recess should be indeed instructional or non-instructional and so that was

008not specifically addressed in our so what we got in writing doesn't have that so is that is this what you're set showing on yeah it does I I pulled this up from the drafted dinners and I'm I'm sorry going back and forth the emails I know sometimes the latest one might not have been updated just but just for a reference looking at what is attached into the agenda meeting that's what we're going off of and then we can um make notes of discussion as needed so I'll give some time to pull that up just so we are on the same page of because I think fourth sentence item a yes so is there an agreeance to add that language to this um do you need a motion to do that no you don't need a

009motion we just um I just want to make sure that we're all talking off the same document and what I read you know in preparation was slightly different was slightly different so that I'm just trying to avoid that happening in the future do you want to go through this item by item or do you want the whole thing we can I'm looking at I'm looking at the document that we can see um up here so if there's anything that is jumping out at you guys I'd love to have the feedback in the conversation now so that when this gets presented to the board okay yes Miss bradberg Adam B school calendar the requirements of gs115c-84.2 can anyone help me with what that is basically it's the calendar law okay please correct me if I'm wrong

010I thought so thank you all right let me I'm still playing and that is not really a change I know there was some conversation with the public about whether or not we should abide by the law in the old language it addressed following the laws to the full extent and I think this one just clarifies and so um again one more question committee members the last paragraph that is struck about the calendar committee um okay I see it here's the here's a replacement language it wasn't on this [Applause] okay so scrolling down to the second page um this was the other language in Miss crabill uh um no I'm just no I am just trying to find it okay um my mouse isn't working and I'm not a good spoiler I'm sorry that's okay so

011yeah the um oh I'm looking at the wrong thing Okay so we've just got to have um Crystal could you go back up the top again so I can look I need to bring batteries okay keep going and paragraph a yeah so you said the only thing that you've added in there from what we got in our handouts is um after pep rallies we have no before pep rallies we have recess yes ma'am and um so are we um we've had a lot of discussion on structured versus unstructured so I want to be clear on what your intent was because all these are your changes right these ones in red are your changes this a bulk that was what was up for discussion back at the December board meeting to be approved and so looking

012over it that one word in paragraph a is indeed my change to address breaks and instructional day so I take that as addressing it as a break in the instructional Day means that it is not in the instruction time and so if I'm misinterpreting what my what my desire is that I love feedback on that but that is the premise of adding that so that it's specifically not instruction time yes ma'am right after that it says in similar non-instructive activities implying that recess is a non-instructional activity so it's pretty clear yes so that was the intention we don't want to spell that out given the conversation that we've had because it's going to come up again in the calendar I would love if you have a different language that you'd like to offer for that

013I'd love for you to say what you think would be more clear because that's what I attempted to do out here I would say unstructured recess it recess in and of itself to me implies that it's recess and free time but apparently there has been not apparently there has been discussion on unstructured versus structure so so I don't think that we should go with it's obvious okay if somebody's asking a question then it's not obvious there's breaks in the instructional day breaks in the instructional day for changing classes list some things to this recess then it says pep rallies and similar non-instructional activities breaks in the instructional day and non-instructional activities are both in that same sentence okay I'm good with it but just be prepared that it's gonna it's gonna come up again when

014we talk about calendar so your suggestion is just to have unstructured recess as the language change right there yeah I would be okay with Atmos Bradford are you okay with just adding unstructured recess um and then scrolling down to the very bottom can I ask a question of the folks who were in charge of this um like McDuck facing is that an appropriate ad or is that not an appropriate ad because I don't want to contradict the work that your group that your department is doing the question would be then are we going to lay out what is structured recess so I that I get a question I I don't honestly I think um it's fine because but the next question is going to be what is structured recess so that brings that up and

015I I wonder if we want to answer that here or not not clear about that do you want to just leave it out I mean I don't I don't I am only trying to clear up because yeah it's coming yeah but I also am deferring to you as the subject matter expert and this is the work that you do so the um what's what's your thoughts I I think I think your point is taken well um because it we still might get back and people say well what about structured recess but I just want this body to know if you've included either way or not included if you include the word unstructured we would have to Define what I mean structure what is structured recess so I don't know I think either way I think

016structural recess will become a question and what is the definition that we have for it yes Ms Bradford Madam chair I move that we adopt policy 3300 as it's written um I'm not done making comments yet it's Bradford okay the um if I can just call a point of order what we normally do um Josie is anybody that has a has a question about it they're asked for their feedback so the imitation is is extended to everybody does anybody have any comments on it before we move to move it on I mean at this time I I wanted to address my other addition for that if there is a question did you have a question yes the um so moving down into paragraph two a a proposal for alternating scheduled classes or other such schedules

017may be part of a school Improvement plan so is that a May or should that be a should or Dr basin this is Jason can you all hear me committee yes Jason can you hear me this this is Jason the the board attorney for anyone listening the word may there is consistent with statute where schools may include alternative scheduling as part of the Improvement plans that they present to you the board um so so the way it's written Now tracks the statute and I was just the question that was asked of me Jason with the recess and unstructured could you please address that I'm sorry I forgot you were on the line no that's fine um so in the section above where there's a proposal to add recess to a list of non-instructional activities I

018mean in my view as the board's attorney I think it's pretty clear um you know adding the word structured or unstructured in front of recess opens it up to interpretation which of that's the will of the committee that's that's fine you know if you want to introduce that then leave it up to staff to further Define you know what that is as it's written now recess is clearly considered or would clearly be considered a non-instructional activity that would not count for purposes of instructional hour calculations and I think just the general term recess is also clear enough I mean it would whether it's structured or unstructured the way it's written it would not count so then um it seems like feedback from Mr Weber to keep the just just plain recess not adding the caveat

019of unstructured or structure so I would um recommend just to keep it as recessed as edited I'm good with that okay are you okay with that Miss Bradford um and as we as we move down to page two what would I needed to have my question addressed in paragraph two he said that was consistent with General statutes yes versus should okay and so as we scroll down to page two Believers for opening I added in the last paragraph and the event the committee feels as though they are unable to provide the best academic development for students in New Hanover County Schools they will request the board consider adopting a resolution to be presented to public and elected officials and um underneath the strike through at the very end I think it takes a minute to

020find it actually all I had to strike through oh it's you got to get it off the Border you got to get off of here it's new from the agenda see this is this is the one that was uploaded to the agenda so a little bit about the black uh but I I'm open to feedback at this time with this because I know the board that's what the board did and I just wanted to outline steps for in the event that we have um an issue with our community that the board can take an outward action step to address the concerns of our committee but also still be abiding by law so if there's different verbiage that we feel we need to add with that yes sir I um was it paragraph one waiver for

021opening it or closing no it's at the very end and I I don't know okay you got to get it there or you got to get it yeah I'm sorry for the discrepancy between that but this is this is from the all of the documents that we're going to be discussing is straight from the uploaded agenda and so when you're looking at that that is what you see here so it I put placed it after section B number two I placed it at the very last paragraph um so Madam chair just put the point of clarification yes the striker is going away and is being replaced with the verdict you provided or is the verbage you provided in addition to the information that's struck through because it's different information one describes the composition uh of

022the calendar committee what it shall do and what it shall be composed of or comprised of and then the item that you add is in addition to that so I'm wondering if the strikethrough is a go away completely I think this was that was something that was struck through prior to me making my edit so I let me look to see I thought when I looked it over that that sentence was replaced somewhere else so let me look just but it but is also have has a strike through again it's it's on the first page there should not have been a double straight through so that was an oversized well it's got some changes in it it's um school calendar strike through C now B it's up there I think it's the same thing Rewritten

023I think I'm pretty sure it is the counter committee Willow draft school calendars for the ceiling school year to be presented for board approval any calendar adopted by the board will be consistent with the requirements of General statutes 115c okay so that that's where the consistency it's just replacing the location okay Mr Weber do we even need what she wrote I am having a little bit of heartburn here with um adding into our policies always that we can we'll we'll draft resolutions because we if we believe it then we say it so do we do we need that is that contradictory to the work that we're doing um well I wouldn't say it's contradictory so this this language proposed new language at the end of the policy that's in the red text um you know

024that would require it would create a new requirement for the calendar committee and that you know they feel like they don't have any good options they will request the board consider adopting a resolution I mean even without that language the board at any time you know down to resolution presented to public and elected officials what this is doing is directing the calendar committee to make that request if they are for some reason unhappy with the options that they have um and and again with or without it the committee could always do that you know on their own but if the board or this Committee of the board wanted to make that a specific requirement or obligation then that's what this language would do well I guess it doesn't it doesn't bind the board to doing

025anything it finds the calendar committee to making a request okay I guess I'm reading through and it says that the that the the calendar committee is only an advisory committee so I guess what this is saying is the calendar do you want the calendar committee to request of the board to do resolutions rather than the board saying let's do a resolution on our own I'm just feeling like we're putting a little too much responsibility on the calendar committee that because if you look at um what we have asked them to do or when we look at what the the which we'll get to in board in the 2310 the the calendar committee is an advisory committee that whose purpose is to create calendars and solicit input um it doesn't say in here that their purpose

026is to recommend extraneous activity you know to the board we so is do a hair motion just to strike that from the policy well it's not emotion it's a suggestion because right now we're not moving anything we're just talking about the wording and do we want it or not because at the after we finish this policy we will not make a motion we will say we will put it into one of our categories that says we'll adopt it as amended or I with the wording exactly or we will adopt it with some minor changes that we'll review with legal or we're going to hold it in here the reason for this Edition was because the two calendars that the calendar committee wanted to present to the board one intentionally broke the law because they felt

027it was in the best interest of students so rather than a caveat to talk to the board an open dialogue to say here's where we're at we are stuck with this calendar law that we feel is very hard to get around and not in the best interest of students as a board we decided to adopt a resolution which passed most recently but we were first presented with two options the board was to either break the law or to do a traditional calendar a and so that that is where the premise of this if we feel like it's in the best interest I'm looking at my counterparts to not put that in there I'm okay with taking it out but that was my reason of justification behind it because I don't want to feel like our

028committees feel like they have to make a decision that is not in the best designers of students and I felt like this tried to outlined another Avenue that they could utilize and requesting that was my intent I know I personally don't think we need it that's Bradford I'm neutral it can stay it can go but we have to decide I have the wrong one um I mean in the event to continue to pass this through those were the two biggest chains for me and to add the recess and to utilize and then it would be more palatable if you change the will right here to may they may request and then it's just as benign as it can be it's not threatening in any way um I'm just feeling that that is not the job

029of the calendar committee because all we ask them to do is put together some suggestions and they did they gave us two um and so it's up to us to pick and then it's also up to us to say we don't like those or we do like them but we want to do a resolution I I'm just thinking that thank you I'm just thinking that we don't need to just like we don't need to get into the structured versus unstructured recess which I'm completely okay with um I don't think we need to add that other layer you know too and we would have to change policy um um 23 the the agenda um or the the description of policy 2230 that we're asking the calendar committee to do that well we can go if we

030if that's the well we can just strike that last paragraph and continue forward with the changes that we see in red including adding that yeah sorry I'm sorry can you just show me where who I don't see who is chairing the committee and who's on the committee both times on my document is marked out I is we struck when we when we have reviewed this back in the fall we struck that out of this policy because we addressed it specifically okay so that is where we um that brings me right to one of my next suggestions was in the first line where it says the calendar committee will draft school calendars the I wanted to add the board advisory calendar committee as described in policy 2230 um the will develop the calendars because that and

031that we did that so that we wouldn't have to go back and forth right so the language you want to suggest is NB school calendar the board advisory calendar committee will a draft school calendars I would I would like to even say as described in policy 2230 even though we do we do reference it in the cross references at the end um this to clear up that point specifically so folks don't get confused that we that we we are already addressing it someplace else yeah I'm sorry I didn't see you no that's okay I I'm okay with that suggestion as well um so after that discussion is there any other discussion or feedback for the purpose of this policy the when we're coming down to um be number two be do we in the the

032sentence that is the second sentence the superintendent and individuals are encouraged to obtain input from teachers and other personnel as well from the community in developing proposals for modifying I would say we need to insert their Traditional School calendar to and then you have to year two year round but add to a year-round calendar so that we're clear on what we're converting for modern so you want the language to read for modifying the Traditional School calendar to year round calendar to a year-round calendar committee members um the the calendar law does not use the term Traditional School calendar there actually are modified school calendars they're limited to calendars that were adopted prior to I think 2004 and I don't know if that applies in New Hanover County Schools but if you did have any modified

033calendar schools then changing this to put traditional in front of school calendar would limit the ability to switch from just Traditional School calendars to year round as opposed to modified school calendars okay so we shouldn't put that in there so I would recommend leaving it as is open-ended school calendar okay so in the first sentence of that same paragraph Traditional School is written there so should we take it out there as well I would recommend taking that out too I would agree with that recommendation okay um any further discussion so it says for modifying a school's school calendar do we because you put in schools do we even need that schools that changes from the school boards Association the school board yeah it's part of the updates I think from the fall the uh schools

034was from a big yes okay so you can it's gonna just say a School's calendar to a year-round chapter and then so my last question was the last sentence of number two is a year-round school maybe include maybe included as part of a school Improvement plan um why did we write that because um I mean not me like shouldn't it be imported or well no not necessarily because I don't know why the person wrote it but if let's say we were thinking that year-round would be part of what we do to increase a school because we have the students in going year-round is the thought I'm thinking that someone inserted that in but we don't have to yeah that's what I'm thinking does that make you think so maybe if we change maybe some of

035our schools that are year round but no they're not our schools that are year-round but if a school is in going through Improvement like I restart schools yeah to maybe um include the aspect of students being in school year round as part of improving those schools is why I'm thinking this is here but I that's my thought process do you have any thoughts on leaving that in or I think we should take it out yeah the reason why the research states that um difference they'd have to they would have to give more school days versus your regular traditional but if you're doing the same it's just the brakes are they're put in here at different times so I would strike that last sentence I would have to say right that you know you're a school

036Improvement you don't necessarily need that for you our Europe's uh it's Dr Basil said our year-round schools are not the performance teams right okay so we'll strike that lesson is that um is everybody good with that yes so then um I move that we adopt this policy as amended to be presented at the February board meeting so we uh we we normally do the whole movement at the end so I think we're going to have a lot more discussions but I'm writing them down on our on our tally sheet so this would be the existing policies for Amendment are we we are sending them to the work as as written here yes we're not holding it out correct so 3300 I'm making the motion to move it forward to present to the board so I'm

037all in favor for that we're gonna I think I mean even just with the time discussion I'd like to make sure that we have a clear path moving forward for each of these individual ones um so I am going to make a motion that we enter clothes session pursuant to North Carolina General statute 143-318.11 A3 to consult with the board's attorney and preserve the attorney-client privilege um with time constraints I want to see no more than 15 minutes but hopefully it'll be shorter than that so do I have a second all right um we are now in closed session all in favor all in favor aye so now we're now all right have that looks like we also what was sent to me that's what it sounds like I thought we had lifted discussion thank

038you for being here I think you can see what they said uh sorry sorry for the 15th emails yesterday hello foreign thank you that was scary yeah yeah my chiropractor said oh yeah okay good for you yes yeah okay those were the only changes they went back thank you I'm sorry the room isn't set up really good thank you fix my appetite I mean not to the greatest I mean pretty good well I do it all the time companions foreign yes foreign because he's 12 months because normally central office I mean maybe I'm missing something like I work 10 hours but my schedule hours are eight even at eight oh actually I wish it when they were absent she used seven and a half and I think when I spoke with her I said I

039wouldn't worry about that okay yeah that's good which one from the academy okay very good thank you but there are so many things somewhere and there are things that I work till the jobs but we I don't know I don't know it takes themselves whatever you tell we got to make sure it's okay a recreational activities I just think about it make sure anyway I just wanted to make sure because yeah right foreign because that would help our students greatly our things really that would help them a lot right and the teachers I think would would put a burden on them you know they'll be fine with it that's what most people try to think yeah oh yeah YouTube yeah different if they don't earn it EMS right foreign oh yeah yeah and I have

040fans that do that drives me crazy when you first get it yeah because they look so pretty and there's still something so shut up [Laughter] I mean and it's not it's not a tight so maybe you can maybe thank you foreign okay so they can just make things printer settings cheers foreign you've got it across them out okay so that is correct okay are you willing to share thank you and can you scroll page two please okay see what happens they were like oh yeah we did yeah they didn't um yeah foreign the next policy on the agenda is 36.20 and this was part something that was brought up both by substantial changes from the ncsba as well as it was sent back from our board and so to open discussion I will consult Miss

041Bradford to let her have her thoughts on that and then we'll discuss further from everyone in the committee my concerns are safety in watching the video of the young lady from September 2022 in Cherokee County North Carolina High School volleyball player who was injured by a volleyball Spike to the Head the velocity was extremely abnormally fast they estimated it was 70 miles an hour and um she is still suffering neck and head injury problems long-term concussion problems concussion is something that we're all aware of now in sports and the Cherokee County Board voted five to one in September to forfeit all girls volleyball games against the Highland School quoting safety concerns and the quotes that made it into the media by the members of that board really really concerned me and if we're constantly weighing

042everything by lawsuits or no lawsuits there's no question it hasn't been filed today but at some point there will be a lawsuit and they Remain the board and everyone else they can possibly name for that girl's injuries I'm trying to head that off we haven't had an issue I'm trying to keep us from getting into that hot water and I'm trying to make the policy more consistent with what exists for the next stage the next four years in high school so the the SMS the the team that you're talking about is high school and the changes that we are proposing here are for 11 12 and 13 year olds that's correct that probably do not have the strength and the um adolescent development that this high school player had so I think we should be

043comparing Apples to Apples and not Middle School to high school just if if that is your number one concern then I think that we need to look past that all right I appreciate your opinion yeah and I will add to that I I am looking at the first sorry and we'll go through this I guess from the top bottom so the first suggestion that I was looking at was on page two excuse me um to must to should and I know um after talking with some individuals to con the consensus might be to keep it as should so that we can maintain consistency versus must in allowing that participation piece it says to participate in inner interscholastic athletic contest a student athlete should and I had changes to should but to keep the wording must

044be in attendance on the day um is it the will of the committee to keep must or I think we should keep must foreign also addresses that you know since we um we need to be consistent on like suppose Stephanie says oh well you know I had this so I don't have to um I'm allowed to play but Josie says oh I had this excuse and they're like oh you can't play sorry so to keep asking Miss Bradford do you have any feedback for that language would you like to say that see that stay as must or allow it to be should I can go with should and I don't know who the Consulting expert would be in this but I would love to hear their feet is that you Doctor well part of it

045okay this one we do have to follow the North Carolina Athletics Association there's language there and I'm looking at Julie because we don't want to get outside of their scope yes because they are the ones who actually dictate the the players like who can and we don't want to have to Forfeit because of something that we didn't have so Julie can you help us yeah um with with regard to attendance we have it stated in um 4400 yeah okay hold on I didn't have that pulled up the cross-reference I'm sorry no no that's fine I like that but it is an expectation and that's a consistent expectation um does the Middle School manual address that um no the Middle School manual um the state manual is that one you're talking about the one the one

046that is referenced in our policy the um right it just it just aligns to District policy regarding attendance okay um so we have school related activities um I can come back to this and find it okay um I'll I'll keep for discussion and we can come back to that okay um so I I do have what we see here for the middle school which is um the biggest thing as we discussed this as a middle school student and I have a slight uh language change that I'd like to add here that we're being offering for consideration uh it would be page two and starting with a student participating in Middle School athletics it would read as follows a student participating in Middle School athletics May participate only on the team consistent with the gender on

047the student's birth certificate unless otherwise permitted under New Hanover County Schools administrative procedures the administrative procedures shall be consistent with applicable North Carolina High School Athletic Association rules and regulations the justification for that after Consulting with a lot of individuals is still allowing an opportunity but providing consistency in what the expectation is because irregardless of our personal opinions there is a process in place come ninth grade to allow gender identification as part of athletic participation and so the concept is to mirror that to help provide consistency for our students [Music] so um and I know Miss Barnum is is busy looking up something else but um but I think it would behoove us now to make sure we hear out loud what that process looks like it's it's in very invasive um process and um

048that we go through with children basically who are 14 through 18 in high school but this policy that we're talking about is addressing kids who are 10 11 or 11 12 and 13 year olds so it's a pretty invasive policy and so before I can sign off on us that policy pretty invasive protocol I think that we should all be clear on just what that means um because the North Carolina High School sports Association is an independent agency and we are a school district with different levels of resources and very different levels of expertise and I'm fine with openly discussing that I will add to that the concept here that's being discussed right now is a complete just gender identification as stated by the individual Middle School athletic that is in semi-contradicting to what the

049high school sports Association has in place so I think in order to both acknowledge and to allow to Define that process of accountability is due diligence on our part and again irregardless of our personal feelings this is the process that is laid out for ninth grade and so I I have looked into this in depth and I can pull it up on the website so as there's something specific that you want to discuss the process for or yeah because um it's my understanding that um they have to be evaluated by a medical doctor and a psychologist psychiatrist who are experienced in dealing with transgender um people not just necessarily students but transgender people they have to interview the students family interview the students Friends interview the students teachers and they all have to attest that

050this child student is identifying as the gender that they say they are so in almost every all of our curriculum especially like you know in our counseling areas we always talk about what is age appropriate and um I'm just putting out there that what is age-appropriate for a high school student um process is not necessarily age appropriate for pre-teens pre-adolescents um in their whole frontal lobe development in their whole body development um in their whole emotional you know development so it's just a lot that we would put these kids through who all they want to do is just be with their friends and play and be accepted they don't necessarily need to be under the scrutiny of our school system employees to say who you are is not good enough and you are not trans

051enough um so that that is all I'm saying is that the process is it it's very invasive and it's and it's harsh the um for that and when we're talking about 11 12 and 13 year old kids we're not talking about kids who are trying to get scholarships and um go on to compete in the Olympics we're talking pretty much about babies still I hear and understand your sentiment I would say again that you're regardless of our feelings this is the process that's in place and so right now we are come at a Crossroads to say are we going to keep consistent that says a student in Middle School can play with their gender identity identification period or to develop a project that mimics so hearing the concern of constraints on the staff makes me

052makes me think that you're saying either totally allow it or don't allow it at all and this All or Nothing approach is I think where the conversation people that that really stops the conversations for people because I don't think people are trying to say all or nothing I think it's the conversation is we have an opportunity to provide consistency and I understand the feelings of acceptance but when we're looking at how we write policies should we be saying we should do this with emotion-led feelings or trying to mean consistency for our students and so I'm trying to be respectful because I know we have a plethora of opinions on this topic but that is where the justification is coming from so it and it in in the first line of B1 it says in addition

053to meeting the general requirements listed above to be eligible for interscholastic athletic participation students must have the written permission of their parent or Guardian um and must meet all applicable eligibility standards of the state of State Board of Education so the um a parent is is probably not going to give permission for a their transgender student to participate on a team that is inconsistent from what they have observed that their child is exhibiting so the I know that that this board is very concerned about parental rights and parental involvement and this one's clearly saying that parents are involved so um I can't imagine a parent setting their child up for that kind of failure is there any other discussion that has not yet taken place from committee members who would like to speak on this

054topic Miss Barnum did I misstep or misspeak on um the process no so um and I'm trying to do good things at once real quick um I'm sorry at this at the high school there's the gender identity for the North Carolina High School Athletic Association the gender identity committee um and then the submission of all of the information much of which you spoke about um to the North Carolina High School Athletic Association I have gotten confirmation that there have been some requested this year and they've all been approved so the the information that you shared I think is is accurate and then and you're talking about all been approved through high school not too much school so I guess my point is what does it hurt what what really does it hurt when we have

055a lot of in middle school we have a lot of co-ed Sports that we're um girls and boys play together um and you know we we don't ask them you know um what are you you knew are you male are you female are you trans are you whatever you know so I'm just curious as to what does it hurt as long as they are in the language we had before was very clear that participating in middle school is not necessary does not necessarily mean that you're going to be accepted by the high school sports Association any other feedback at this time no thank you the in letter B number two um this is on a different topic um but it's in the um a different theme but the one two third paragraph um I would

056like to strike the word scrimmage from the last line of that sentence of the the second sentence it's paragraph B number one two third paragraph to strike out the word scrimmage we've already had to um waive the policy one time this year because our policy is stricter than the North Carolina High School sports Association so if we remove scrimmage then we're more in line with that I can't count to three paragraphs the very last word in the third paragraph last two words or scrimmage okay I would be okay with that I'm okay with that um Miss Farnham I know that you're I'm doing double duty here so were you able to look up the verbiage change between muster should to see that most accurately reflects on the day of the contest yes it's recommended at

057the um so in the High School Athletic Association information it states that it is recommended with an underline that the student be in school the day of the contest so then it comes the question do we want to maintain consistency and say recommended and attendance to I don't I think we're setting ourselves up for just more controversy by we either you have to be here or you don't have to be here and and we have all kinds of you know um caveats in our attendance policy that allow for what's an excused absence like if you're on a field trip and you know your accountant is there you can still come back and play you know if you had to be excused to go to a doctor's appointment you know there's all those things that are

058already in our attendance policy so if we change this then we're going to have to change our attendance policy is or we're going to we're going to be looking at our attendance policy for consistency so to keep it as must I'm okay with keeping it as must I'm okay with I'm scratching through the ore scrimmage and that third paragraph and I make a motion that would you repeat your wording again please I'm sorry for the middle school for the one two three four fifth paragraph um yes it would be a student participating in Middle School athletics May participate only on the team consistent with the gender on the student's birth certificate unless otherwise permitted by New Hanover County Schools administrative procedures the administrative procedure shall be consistent with applicable North Carolina's High Schools Athletic Association

059rules and regulations second okay so one last question for that and that would be to Dr Faust and his team um the folks that are responsible for the 3600 series um so if we were to adopt this right here right now how I mean obviously we're in Spring Sports so this would not affect any of our students um at this time so similar to what we did with other policies where we say it goes into effect for school year 23 24. um I would like to see some warning about that because it is going to take that end of the table um and this end of the table and probably all the ends of the table it's going to take you know some work on getting these procedures in place that are um that can

060be upheld you know um that will that will not violate the Title IX policies and or law so I I would like to have some words in there to say that this goes into a that it goes into effect for the 23-24 school year to give us time because I have a real hard time having a policy in place knowing that we are not able to meet it what would the difference be with this wording now and having that because like you said the students who are already participating in athletics would have that time so this is a precedent moving forward that our staff would be having to prepare for so we still have baseball is that what you're saying okay and and we do have three middle school students that participate that use this

061part of the policy to participate in accordance with their gender identity already yes yes so we yeah and so and nobody knows that nobody's talked about that and I just that's again comes back to my point who cares you know it's it's just not really been an issue but I would like for it to be real specific that we because otherwise if we adopt this policy today and that's not in there then those students that we already have we're going to have to start doing something we're going to have to put them through the ringer to maintain their spot on the team right I mean if we're Jason would that does that make sense foreign I think the committee has some discretion here if you want to build into this proposed new language a start

062date for example they could start the new sentence with beginning with the 2023-2024 school year um you could certainly do that uh you know as part of the motion uh whoever makes it could you know make it with the understanding that it will be effective beginning the 2023-2024 school year it just depends on how you want to do it so I would like to modify make a motion to modify Miss Bradford's motion this is why we don't Motion in the middle of a discussion we wait till the end um but I would like to make a motion that to add the words beginning with school year 23 24 comma a student blah blah blah blah chairman I didn't make the motion whoever made the motion Barnard's motion so you want to amend the motion to

063say beginning with school year 20 23 2024 comma a student participating in Middle School athletics all the words that you said because I I don't think that we're prepared and if we've got students that this involves right here right now technically we're going to have to go yank them off the team until they passed this process that we don't even have [Applause] how's that going to look well I mean I'll be I'll be direct here I was not in favor of the old board passing this policy as is and I brought some accountability issues when this when this was proposed change just as a parent so it is a frustrating thing to be here to make that decision right here right now because I don't think that it provides consistency and fairness so with this

064in place I hear what you're saying and either way whether we adopt it immediately or come the 23-24 school year the process will be in place so it becomes do they have to do the process now or do they have to do the process in the fall starting when the in the fall um Miss Bradford what what do you think with that Amendment I'm content with the motion that you've made and it's been seconded so the on the table right now is I'm hearing that nobody is going to Second my amended motion okay that's fine Mr Weber can I ask the question um if we adopt this well actually we're not going to adopt it now we will adopt it on February 7th perhaps um that and there won't be any technicalities you know everybody

065will be there we will do everything the way we're supposed to do it the um do we have to remove those students that are playing the sports right now well I would say that you know this proposal is a proposal from the committee to the full board they um you know at that time any member could propose an amendment to add some clarity around the effective date and if not then it would be a matter of interpretation that I'd be happy to discuss with staff okay thank you so the motionless second um so now we'll we'll call for a vote to whether or not this gets moved forward to the February board meeting I am in favor not in favor so that's going to pass for two to one we move on to serving students

06647.20 [Applause] hold this up [Applause] so I was really confused on all of the strikeouts and blues and and moving around so I think we're going to have to kind of go through some of the thought process and I'm not certain who made these um who made these changes if these were I don't recall these being ncsba I brought the the last obviously with me [Applause] has it changed since the printed material okay but the data that's on the computer is also the same as the printed thank you um so I had pulled this back into policy and the December meeting because there was a change uh in 21 I believe that did no longer required parental consent it required an opt out if you wish and it became from a parent side of things

067a kind of like a gotcha effect and I don't think that was the intent behind the policy but with some different surveys that had gone out there was concerns that parents had shared that they had told their child they did not want to participate but then they were told by staff that they had to participate and lack thereof and so I would just rather have very good communication with our staff and our families when we are serving our students in any level of state level District level District piloted programs that we are indeed getting the consent of our parents because this should not be something that gets presented and kind of passed through of changes that we're doing in the school system and so I and I will do better with my notations of color

068notations as we move forward because like I said whenever I was changing and some of them came up in color some of them were blue some of them are red some of them didn't have color so moving forward it'll hopefully be a little bit easier to understand so I initially that had this had been struck through the school system must obtain prior written consent of parent or eligible student before the student is required to participate in any Department of Education funded survey analysis or evaluation that reveals the protected topics and I believe um I'd like to potentially include any state district or District piloted program because there were some schools that participated in school-wide surveys then there was a couple of pilot schools that participated in surveys for a variety of things I know we

069had participated in the tobacco state survey we had a Title Nine survey given we've had um you know social emotional learning development surveys that were given at some piloted schools and so I would like to see this policy be adopted and drafted to provide consistency for any format of surveys given to students as well as the material that we get consent from our parents and with that I'll open it up for concerns and justifications for why we change that potentially are you looking for that from staff so letter A you are number one you are saying that you're not striking it out now this that this is that initially when this came to the board in December that had been struck out I believe and so I would like to maintain that to stay in

070to allow consent from parents to be given look for the one with color I got yeah I guess I'm gonna have to go back to the Crystal's new policy new one because the one I'm looking at that I pulled offline doesn't have that truck out this this is the one that's online not on Friday when I made my copies so that is like let me let me go look in what the what Mr we just made for us bye I don't care what we wait um having multiple children in school and things come home they never make it home things come by email your email's down that day I really like this I'm I'm a fan of opt-in so written consent would help me get closer to that goal so I'm in support of it

071well if you look at let number two letter c the last the second paragraph the last words um are given the opportunity to opt out those are very different I I mean I appreciate you bringing that to our attention because I looked over this these are very different interpretations because the ability to opt out means from the parent side of things if you catch the survey beforehand then you have the ability to say yes or no to evaluate what survey is being given and I will share personal frustration experience that I had in my own school when I got a phone call part of our weekly call saying that our students were surveyed so then I asked to see the survey and I was told the only way to see this Earth raise if you

072came in person Miss Barnhart so I did that and I procedurally went through come to find out on the bottom of the survey it said for demonstration purposes only that translates to me as a parent this is not necessarily the questions that our students are being asked that's a concern for me as a parent and now as a board member that what we are sharing with our parents are as consistent where the information is going who's getting the information is important and so while there is an ability yes to parent to operate that right to opt out there is a and no documentation for parents who want that choice to opt out so that when the child goes to school and tells the teacher I am told not to participate and the teacher says well

073this is what you have to do they have clear documentation that has not been processed but also it's only if the parent catches it and so this is where I have a very hard time moving forward with this policy because after I asked lots and lots and lots of questions about where the survey material was going what we were doing and the changes we were doing with the programs it was very vague answers and again I have concerns with that and as a school system when we are doing things I think that we should be very transparent and open about the process and procedures in place and so yes there is a caveat if you wish I just think it would be better to have written consent um and if it needs to be electronic

074and written consent or both or however that looks like that I think written consent is the way to go when we're surveying our students and if it is not that important to get it then I don't know if it's important to to do it so I am still confused on the different kind the on what I'm reading here like the can you Define for like reset that first paragraph A1 the first line that it whatever's written there doesn't make sense this is this was just the old policy prior to adoption so it says four purposes and it's the same as that as the policy the following are considered a school system must obtain prior written consent considered um uh the committee members if it helps this is Jason Weber so um so if I'm following

075the conversation the red text was previously deleted as part of an earlier policy committee meeting placed with the blue underlying text and Miss Barnhart is proposing to reinsert the red text and and just to give some more context so this this policy tracks the school boards Association model that was reorganized somewhat recently I can't remember if it was in the summer or the fall so this concept of Prior written consent before participating in any Department of Education funded survey analysis or evaluation concerning protected topics that language was essentially moved so it was deleted here in this school boards Association model and it was moved down to the second page the first paragraph under C so should should number one read so for the purposes of this policy the following are to be considered a should

076we strike that out and just start with the school system must well if you were to do that you would need to revert back to the version prior to the school boards Association update from the spring so they they reorganized this policy so this concept right so this requirement that prior written consent must be obtained in any Department of Ed funded survey concerning protected topics that wasn't removed from the policy it was just moved to a new section down in b or down in C the first paragraph on page two if you look at that blue text it says before a student is required to participate scroll up a little bit where it says before see parental consent before a student is required to participate in any Department of Ed funded survey analysis evaluation concerning

077protected topic the parent neural eligible student must provide prior written consent so so again the association was just reorganizing its policy so now it starts with the list of protected topics in that first section A and then down here in section c it states the consent requirement and then the second the second paragraph here refers to non-department of Ed funded surveys where there's the opt out if it's not funded by the department of Ed but there's still prior written consent required if it is funded by essentially the feds so so just just to give some context to the the changes that's my understanding is all this blue text is from the school boards Association updates right and so that was my that was my understanding as well I'm just trying to figure out that first

078sentence is it just is not reading right for purposes of this policy the following are considered a the school system must you know so we need to strike out the the stuff that was struck out and so that we get to a considered protective topics so yeah just strike that okay I see what you're saying because to read them first and it's again just tracking all the school boards Association changes can be difficult so they weren't they weren't striking this concept this is required by federal laws and consent they just moved it right so you're saying to for purpose of this policy the following are considered protected topics and they are considered protected so not a I think it should be or as you know as protective topics that a should be as you don't

079even need the a considered protected topics would work so and to do that okay so isn't that the same with um the protection of student privacy that just got moved to a different section as well I mean I am so sorry I'll tell you where I'm to make sure so I can help guide um protected topics under A1 those we always have to get we've already been getting parent permission so anything under a through h we can't do that survey unless we get parental consent under surveys involving protected items let me make sure under parent consent is it C is that the one that we want to look at because this one already does I think what you were wanting it to do it's it's so BC the second paragraph or little C section two

080little C if prior written consent is not mandated for a survey um rather than saying if it's not mandated just to say to all first all surveys to be mandated this will make sure we're not undoing okay what you want so where's that again Jazzy she's on page two of four number two little C foreign we can just change it to all surveys administered and is that what we really want is that all surveys administered because you know that opting in and opting out can significantly change the data that you're going to get and it could unintentionally skew it one way or the other based on who options and who wants out so I I would be very hesitant to say for every survey that we're going to get the what protection are we trying

081to what are you trying to protect Pat after saying a word you don't want them to hear well I'm I just let's be honest we're trying to protect the parents right to say which survey their child should or should not participate in Period right and and so I understand that and I'm with that I had Parents I had kids in school but what I'm saying to us is if we just carte blanche say that then we are you we almost might not even do the survey at all because who opts in and who opts out is it could skew the data that we're trying to collect and analyze to make programs that will improve the educational experience for our children that's all I'm saying is if we carte blanche it then we're really cutting off

082our nose despite our face I in my opinion and so my add to that is when I was teaching in the classroom and I needed a buy-in of parents I was the one on the phone calling them up and telling them the importance of why I needed their participation and so while I respect and understand where you're coming from I guess my question would be if we have a survey that is going out that is so necessary in order to make the appropriate academic changes that's going to support our students then I think that we should be intentionally involving our parents to include them of this is what it is this is why it's important this is what we're going to do with it and respectfully I think that we could do better in that

083process as a school district and so um that's that's where I stand on it I do I I'm I'm trying to kind of add the verbiage of just saying all students administered will require prior working consent um so we're leaving in the your proposal is to leave the language in exactly as well no no yeah looking at um looking at c i I would like to change it yes um as can you read what you want to change it to uh right I have to I'm right scratched scrub boiling right now while you're working on that um Mr cortan could you describe to us like how hard it is to get parents to respond to surveys you know um or get permission slips back in for stuff I mean is this hard or not hard

084I don't know maybe I'm not a principal so I don't know it can be challenging at times it just depends on if the parents are um I mean we have several ways of communicating with them we have the all call that goes out uh things like that it just it for for some parents it is challenging to get a response back from him because you know they they'll turn off their all call or they'll the emails and things like that or paper there are some students that Unfortunately they don't live through their stuff as as often as they should so I said we have several ways to communicate it just depends on the parent responding back but if we would require written then we would have to get the paper back and even like your

085your teachers would have to call parents and say turn this form in or if it would it be more feasible to include a plethora of raise of getting that getting that feedback and consent from parents are you saying like utilizing electronic I don't know you know electronic signature of sorts or or whatnot um is that what you're saying to utilize multiple ways to get that feedback I mean I I support having multiple ways that we support and communicate with our parents but with the consensus of that we're going to be getting their permission in all honesty in my opinion I would think that the written would be the best way because if you start having to try to track all kinds of different ways for this to come in to have permission uh that could

086be very time consuming for people to try to keep track of different ways Every Which Way a student has been given permission or not given permission to take a survey so I would I would say honestly you would want that written if that's what you guys are looking at you would want that written documentation so that we could have it on hand just my opinion and and we would need for a kid not to come into school and say mom said don't take this we would need a note like a which is currently what's happening now Mom said don't take it and then hope hope for the best what I would also say if you don't get the permission slip back then that student doesn't take the survey okay um normally how we even do

087something like that when it involves written permission I mean we try to call and stuff but we just don't get it back we don't get it back yep thank you for that effort I know it's Monumental you know in some cases um so I guess the language change in little C paragraph two that I would like to see happen would be all surveys administered at a district or District pilot level will require prior written consent from parents in letter C so you're changing like the whole thing paragraph one or paragraph paragraph two the one that says right now if prior written consent is not mandated yes so you're now so tell me again what you're changing that wording to be I would like it to say it's something of the following so all surveys administered

088at a district or District piloted level will require prior written consent from parents do you need a second are we there no we don't have to do seven we just we just keep going through just keep going oh I'm good [Applause] and I'm just gonna keep moving on from for a second [Applause] string B third party surveys no the in um in letter a number two B um where it says that the struck outlines that are not funded in whole or in part by the Department of Education is that what we want to lead in there because I I thought the what we were we were supposed to do was to make our list of the protected topics the ones that are funded by the Department of Education and the rest of them we do

089our best to get the information out as quickly as possible on when we when we would like to do a survey so is is that a good line to I have it struck out in two different in in all of our different policies I'm just wondering if that did does that make sense Ms Barnum that um striking that out I think I'm trying to understand so if if we're saying if if the board of saying or the committee is saying that that you want parent permission provided so opting in for all surveys then I think it doesn't necessarily matter that we split that out after whether they're protected topics or not because if you if you're seeking full parental consent opt-in you don't really need to just the reason they were separated is is because

090of um of dinner out okay so that line is is okay to be to be struck out and you're back to the one in B yes and um yes this is this is Jason so that strikeout is consistent with the okay ppra the notice requirement is what the notice provision is required regardless of the funding source where the ppra gives discretion is around opt-in versus opt out and if it's funded by the department of Ed prior written consent is required if the survey is not funded by the department of Ed that parents should be given the opportunity to opt out and what the committee is considering is introducing a prior written consent requirement no matter what the funding source is okay um my other my my last point or question is I am not certain

091how advertising in schools policy 5240 fits in with this I mean I read it and there is language in there that talks about sexual orientation and gender identity but I'm not quite certain I mean it's referenced you know in letter d and it's also cross-referenced you know so it was intentional on that so I'm just wondering why is why is this policy advertising in schools um the relevant [Applause] other than the the one where it says we can't use third-party people we can't survey our students for third-party marketing purposes is that the only reason yes well well it to the extent that it helps this policy um whatever this number is surveys of students 47 20. sorry 47 20. um I mean it's really again it's based on a school boards Association model that essentially

092restates the requirements in the ppra the protection of people rights amendment so that that is the law that governs and uh yeah and that's behind essentially the you know every provision in here the advertising and schools policy um might incorporate or be based on some aspects of the ppra but it's intended to be a little more broad than just uh surveys and the restrictions around those surveys under federal law so that might be why there's a difference between the two I'm just having a hard time figuring out why why they're really related but that's not what we're here to talk about that's so inconsequential in this in the bigger scheme of things I'm sorry no well the only thing um the only thing that I see that connects them is really about that protection of

093student privacy so and it's saying that no school system and I'm looking in 50 . 52 40. yes yeah that no employee is going to require shower car seats to provide marketing information but it goes so far as to say including their personal information which then would be um confidential or protection of student privacy so I think it relates in that way because it could be seen as a survey so I think it's just another layer of production okay are there any other comments for this policy before moving forward so are we moving it forward with the changes of just what we've seen or are we moving it Forward are there any other things we need to get clarity on the words comfortable moving it forward um I know that we're coming up towards the

094end times so I will um move that we discussed the counseling policy to our next meeting because I know that's going to have a lot of questions that I looked at looking at the next few I know there were some that you wanted to get to miss krabos I'd like to if the committee is okay with it to be able to discuss those well the only thing is that we've approved the agenda so we have to something to we have to take it off okay or yeah you don't really table it to the next meeting you just they're going to be a motion to postpone discussions 36 10 until the next meeting that's what I'm going with so I I make a motion to postpone the discussion of the counseling program 3610 to our February

095meeting second and Miss gray ball lets you take oh that's all in favor all in favor aye and I will to write my note I would say let's go ahead and do the same thing with the I'd like to make a motion that we do 22 30 to the next meeting also so that we can get to the other two there is one language change I would like for us to discuss kind of now and the reason is is specifically in regards to the legislative committee and number five the second paragraph it says the committee and I I crossed it off because it says the committee will be comprised of three board members preferably at least for multiple site and I changed that um to be added and the and I'm going to tell you

096guys the reason because um we have to trigger an open meeting and in this case if there's three of us named anytime two of us would meet with an elected official I would trigger an open meeting law and so I would like for it to be written here that we'd have a liaison between the board of education but the committee would be all of the board members such that it would allow for more flexibility for more of us to have a conversation together versus um otherwise how it's how it's now essentially one-on-one conversation or the other four unnamed committee members can have a one-on-one conversation with elected officials so what you just said is not what you wrote the as far as that goes there it doesn't because it doesn't say anything about a liaison

097it does right here in the first paragraph the purpose of this commitment between the Board of Education okay so we need to have the the committee is is serving as the liaison correct and so why are we we had the same discussion when we were talking about budget committee versus finance committee um the budget committee had everybody on it and we decided that we didn't need a committee of a whole because that's our job so it it sounds to me like you're proposing that we don't have a legislative committee that we have a liaison the just just one person as a liaison which we can appoint that if the committee's a pride comprised of all board members preferable multiple parties the um I don't even think we need the for multiple parties because there's only

098two and and we may not even have um correct that it's not an issue if the whole board is comprised of one party so we don't really need those words so I I think what you're trying to say is we don't need a legislative committee I think um that's what that's why that's how I'm interpreting what you're trying to say is that we want to make this as open as possible to meeting with our elected officials so um I think the entity committee but I I think the intent behind Korean in the committee was so that we could have cross-collaboration and the reason why the chair appointed the three who did is we are very passionate about that the the problem has become that if we're going to work together and have some open conversations

099um I know with building relationships I mean they operate on a board much like we do so when you're having a one-on-one conversation with a with a legislative official their word isn't the gold standard they have to present it and convince people just like we have to do to have buy-in to the decisions that we make and so I just felt like this was an opportunity for us to be able to openly collaborate with more of our board members if we didn't have this um you know three committee members I don't know this Bradford if you have suggestions on that I mean again we can we we can table this discussion I just um that was a big thing that I was discussing and thinking about I agree it's a challenge the two of us

100want to get together with elected officials we have to be concerned about the open meetings law it's going to be harder to get things done that does make sense to me um and I want to do anything that I can do to facilitate that the more we Engage The Other elected officials the more smoothly everything's going to run and we're going to get to the point we need to get to faster so do you think that it would be better to have a legislative liaison and not have a named committee I know this is kind of a new committee so coming into this role um we haven't really put it into action but by by making the committee bigger all you're doing is just opening up even further that we have to have an open

101meeting now once you trigger four of us together she's saying with a committee of three two-thirds is two people long Shannon but see but the the and Jason help me I'm gonna try my best with the words and you help me if I if I need to that if a committee is acting appears to be acting on behalf of the board by having a committee then we're not that we're not allowed to do that either we're not allowed to send some people into battle to you know to do the work and then um and call it a committee when essentially if it's all of us and we're there then we're having we're making board decisions at a committee meeting Jason and am I am I muddling I mean I'm just trying not to have a

102so so I think so if the so if a committee is comprised of all board members it is essentially just the board right the board wanted to meet and discuss legislative issues and only legislative issues the board can already do that by holding a special meeting for that purpose without it being called a committee and it sounds like there used to be a budget committee that was comprised of all board members that you since removed because you know for that same reason it's essentially a support meeting so so that I mean that could be one outcome of this discussion if you know this committee wants to recommend removing the legislative committee from this policy and to instead I mean the the chair for example could designate an individual as a liaison to local legislators or

103you could replace this with some sort of language requiring that there be able to be leas on and those could also be options to consider and it doesn't replace policy 2650 um liaison with the School Board Association because that's a policy we already have to have we just sort of included that in here so that we've got all of our legislative stuff in the same place so what we already do a point one person to be that legislative liaison and you know in this new policy the the chair did not say who that person was so we would have to do a little bit of um just changing of that so what I'm hearing is that we don't that I think what I'm hearing is that you don't want to have a legislative committee because

104if it's a committee of a whole then we don't need one because that's what we do and we're all allowed to talk to our legislative people at any time that we want and we um and in fact that's part of our responsibility and that doesn't stop us from coming back and making a report during a board meeting this is what I found out in important and committee members if it helps I mean if this is something that's not necessarily urgent I'd be happy to look into it further I hear open meetings law issues and concerns and I'd be happy to study those and report back if at least for now you want to leave this language in place and then revisit it later but obviously that's up to you I mean we can move to

105table this discussion to the February meeting I know that you wanted to discuss the Personnel files so I want to try to do that with before we close um but that was my concern moving forward because I know when we have conversations to trigger an open meeting makes it more difficult so I'll just I'll just continue solo conversations that's fine at the time again so we we are just postponing not so I make a listing to postpone um no I make a motion to postpone further discussion because I know Mr World War wanted to talk about um a potential streamlining process but I want to meet with the committee chairs to talk about what the needs are and the public facing positions and how that comes about prior to me suggesting a process so I'm

106gonna make a motion to discuss this at a later I can say that every meeting the February meeting second all in favor and February policy committee yes Hi Sam hi and Miss Quail I'll let you lead the personnel file conversation yeah so um my my suggested changes are in section D number two little B and that is um my pages weren't numbered on their Miss Billy do you have that oh thank you it is um looks like one two three like maybe on the fourth page okay and so it's it's right there be it's not highlighted but um on on our handouts it is where it says um the Board of Education while sitting as a whole during a properly convened closed session um if the examination of the files relate to the duties and

107responsibilities of the school board so and that is to be to change that any members can come in whenever they want and ask to see a personnel file Ms Bradford is there something specific that this triggered or yes is that something it's a specific incident yes is that something okay um but it needs to happen because it means that any one of the way it is right now any one of us could go in um to Dr Barnes office and ask to see a personnel file and um and for what and why and not tell the rest of the board members that they've done that would this would this Supply that's what I was going to ask Miss Craig but would this apply um so if I if I was a member who was saying

108that and I was granted permission would we then the fellow board members be notified of don't have to according to the spa so you don't have to at all the way it is now can we add that caveat in there if a board member does get granted access to a personnel file that the rest of the board will be made aware of that my whole thought process is why would one person go in to look at a teacher or an administrator or a central office staff why would they go in and not tell other board members that they're doing I mean well that's what I I think we're gonna have I don't really want to be told I want to be part of it because I want to I want to hear so this questions

109that you are asking um and then also I would think that we would want to make sure that it relates to the duties and responsibilities of a board member and not just Rando I'm interested so it would slow the process down which does not necessarily bad or good I'm just looking around the cornering at the unattended consequences let's say a board member had something that was burning and they asked for permission and we were all notified and then but other than that this says we're going to wait for a close a convene closed session so we would then have to call a special closed session in order to do it and we're going to be talking about that in the next policy 2302 and so my my thoughts on that are if you have a

110burning issue then the superintendent sitting right there and so it should be discussed with him and at least if a board member has something it should be discussed with the board chair who would then discuss it with the superintendent and it's not just two of us going hey I've heard blah blah blah let's go in and check it out for ourselves the that just is counterproductive to the work that we do because we don't hire and fire employees we don't make Personnel recommendations you know at all so that's where I think that there needs to be and I I'll say more you know we can put more wording in it but I just think this wording is pretty simple Dr Barnes can you chime in on this please I can um sorry so yeah um

111so if we go back to core training remember the example of the board member who was following the bus driver yeah the own investigation that's actually what this is so if football members doing their own investigation technically you say hey I have an issue I'll bring and then I bring it to everyone and bring the file okay because that's what technically happens they're not actually housed in his office there in the building and I can go get the file so this is the board member following the bus driver explanation it makes sense thanks so much scribble would you be open if we edited to say during a properly convened or intentionally called closed session and typically in your closed session when it has Personnel because all of your closed sessions will have Personnel matters then

112that's what we discussed I just wonder if we put that caveat at or intentionally called that leaves us the flexibility if there is some dying issue and you know not waiting two weeks to have a closed session and if that's what a properly convened closed session is you call the meeting and you notice it you know 48 hours this to the extent that it helps this language would allow the board to meet a special called meeting with 48 hours notice or to have the closed session during a regularly scheduled meeting I'd be okay with that I'm good so I'm okay to move this forward to the board at the February meeting okay thank you do we need a vote second okay so then the the next one is policy that um bringing that forward um

113for us if we look at section B to a [Applause] and um here holy remote videos so it used to say the board will not hold wholly remote meetings in the absence of a state or locally declared emergency which means that we have to have an in-person meeting at all times correct and what I am suggesting is that we allow the um what it says while meetings for board members are physically present Remains the board's preference the board May conduct wholly remote meetings in extension circumstances for regularly scheduled board meetings or as otherwise determined by the board chair and superintendent for other types of meetings such as special meeting in compliance with open meeting laws and really all that is saying is that if we need to convene you know quickly to get something resolved

114with proper noticing of meetings you know 48 hours and posting it Etc et cetera then we can get on Zoom and have that meeting not only is schedule board meetings that would include you know are called audience time that's the only caveat with this I I know I think I don't think it means and maybe I maybe I ordered it improperly it does yeah it doesn't have to be the regular I think it means little r or if you're out of town technically if you're out of town right now um I think you have to get permission to get on then that would support you the opportunity and I think there was another policy when I was looking through that references how many remote meetings as the board member were allowed to participate so I

115think we'll have to three yeah I think we'll have to look at that too and reevaluate as well but um this did change to this in the last year my memory serves me right correct it it tightened up after covet it tightened up to what this is now and and the the the reason for going back is what so for instance if we have to have a meeting um with a single agenda with a single Legend you don't have to everyone call it you may be in different spots and say okay okay does it say single agenda item in it it my my motion did not say that but um Jason you know help me out with wording I mean I I am maybe two or three yeah I mean yeah yeah I mean I

116don't think we need to limit it to single because there may be I was just trying not to do the whole board meeting and mess up the called audience and that that it'll appears in the public that we're trying to avoid it no two different yes two different standards so so to give some context so pre-covet the open meetings law allowed for electronic meetings during covid there was a new law passed with special rules for virtual remote meetings of an entire you know where the entire board is remote during a state of emergency those rules only apply during a state of emergency the your old policy only allowed wholly remote meetings which means everyone every single board member is remote if there's a state of emergency what this does is it still gives you the

117flexibility that you already had under the open meetings law and it sets up two different standards to your point with regularly scheduled meetings this still requires that there be exigent circumstances for example a hurricane right and then it's other meetings where the board chair and the superintendent get to consult and make a decision as to having a fully remote meeting for example to discuss the school calendar or you know any any one or two or three different items so it's still it still protects regularly scheduled board meetings and creates a higher standard for those but instead of tying it to a state of emergency it ties it to exigent circumstances I'm okay with those that language change as well and if you see you notice it's regularly little r you know not the regular meeting

118I'm okay with this changes okay yeah I'm gonna move this forward to the performing in February for consensus um so miss Barnhart I'd like to make a motion that we move policy 3300 36 20 47 20 78 20 and 2302 to the onto the entire Board of the February meeting for consensus for consensus all right second okay all in favor aye um and so then for the policy amendments for the sake of time I'm going to move that we discussed this at a later date and then we can put it on our February policy meeting for the minor adjustments and then I'll take a motion for adjournment um are we go and also um make make a motion to just to also postpone amendments from the ncsba because they are also on the agenda that's

119yeah that's what that's what I would yeah policy amendments from the ncsba to move to February policy meeting do I have a second okay all in favor aye aye okay and now a German make a motion to adjourn so moved all right uh all in favor is there a second yeah and we are adjourned thank you guys for your time foreign