001Mhm. >> Okay. to order if Steve, are we all set? You tell me when. Wait, hurry up. Good evening, everybody. I'm going to call our special meeting of the Cromwell Board of Education to order at 7:37. Thank you for your patience. Lisa isn't with us tonight, so I'll just do quick roll call of the board members. Mr. Heisman. Mrs. Lamb. Mr. Zabrowski. Mrs. Russ. Thank you. Mrs. Matty. Mrs. Cantwell. Where's Kelly? Kelly. Oh, I didn't see you. I'm sorry. [laughter] We don't have tags. We don't have our name tags tonight. Thank you. Um and Mr. Sherman is not with us tonight, so everybody else here, thank you so much. If we could just write down the administrators so I don't have to call everybody. >> Yeah. Okay, thank you. And we are joined by Mary
002and Jack from CABE, our consultants that are leading us through our search process. Um That is the only item on the agenda tonight. Um but I do need an approval of the agenda, so may I ask for a motion to approve the agenda? Thank you. Mrs. Lamb seconded by Mr. Zabrowski. Thank you so much. Yes, please. It's easier when they sit down. >> [laughter] >> It's easier when I have the paper printed out. I never do, but that's okay. Okay. I'm good. All right. So, tonight we're here just I want to preface before I turn it over to Mary and Jack, a huge thank you to the community for participating in many focus groups, sharing their thoughts, opinions, ideas about the future of our amazing schools and our school leadership. And also for the many,
003many people that took the time to fill out a very detailed survey. We got tremendous amount of feedback and I know people are inundated with a lot of things on their to-do list, so much appreciation for folks who took the time out of their busy schedules to provide us that input and that feedback. It is so, so important to us as we have said many times here, this is most important part of our work together, so just huge appreciation for the many members of our community that gave us their time, insights and ideas as we um move forward in this process. Anyone have anything else you want to add? Okay. Then I will turn it over to Mary. Great. Thank you very much. Um it has been a real pleasure getting to know Cromwell more
004deeply as a result of the focus groups and the survey and um we've really enjoyed our time with everybody who's participated. So, I'm going to go through this with a with some in some details so that anybody people are watching this, right? So that they will be able to to also hear, but there are copies of the leadership profile here. [laughter] So, if anybody didn't get one and is interested, um they'll be available Yeah. um after. So, um we offered um conducted between um well, in in early April, nine uh focus groups and interviews and spoke with 61 people in person. And we also had 149 um constituents participate in the survey, which was terrific. And I just want to give a special thanks to Lisa Hicks and Michelle DeMello for getting the word out
005and and encouraging that participation cuz we can't do that ourselves. We really rely on the district to take care of that. There's actually a typo on the top of page three. It says that there were 211 people um total who participated, it should actually be 210. Um you had 61 again participate in interviews and focus groups and 149 looking um under survey responses, 149 total participants who and it says 168 down below, that's because some people identified themselves under multiple um categories. So, any questions about all that? We'll move on to So, what were the strengths of Cromwell? Um The your participants really feel like uh the Cromwell public schools benefit from a a strong foundation in uh rooted in people and relationships and a shared commitment to students, a deeply held value of commitment
006to students. You have a dedicated and caring and high-quality staff. Your teachers, your paraeducators uh and support staff are are deeply committed, professional and and very caring toward your students and they go above and beyond to ensure students are successful. Um we saw staff collaboration, found it to be very strong, morale is high and retention is notable. Um there is a stable, student-centered environment that really drives Cromwell forward regardless of leadership changes. There's a strong sense of community and relationships. People are very proud of how close-knit this community is and the small-town culture where relationships matter. Um there's an interconnectedness that really fosters trust and reinforces shared values for education and ensures students are supported both in and out of the classroom. You have student-centered culture and support systems. Um this district really prioritizes what's
007best for students um academically, socially and emotionally. And staff personalize learning. Students feel known and supported and valued and um the district culture really reinforces us high expectations and compassion and inclusivity. Your students I mean, I had a wonderful focus group with your students and just was so impressed by by them. There were quite a few of them, they were reflective of the diversity of the community and just were were such impressive ambassadors for you. Um small class size and personalized learning are um very valued here. Um students benefit from consistent relationships as they progress through the system. You also really have a community that values strong academics and the curriculum and the opportunities that students have. Um people talked about the high-quality academics, the strong curriculum development and focus on continuous improvement. They felt
008like teachers play an active role in designing and engaging innovative instruction. Um things beyond standardized measures. And students have access to a wide range of opportunities in spite of your relatively small size, including in advanced coursework, elective arts, um athletics, extracurricular activities. The community also feels that there's a high level of collaboration across staff, administration, unions and town leadership. And relationships are respectful and cohesive and solution-oriented. Um the facilities are um strong with a commitment to maintaining safe and modern learning environments. There that comes up as a challenge as well, but your new middle school is a pride of the community and they support um the the community supports your forward-thinking planning. Communication, transparency and family engagement, um the district communicates frequently and transparently with families and the broader community, of course, according to your
009constituents. Um Cromwell also provides robust opportunities beyond the classroom, including athletics, the arts, clubs, community-based learning experiences. The kids were talking about how much they valued those experiences and how much it's helped them think about their paths going forward, um both what they want to do going forward and what they don't want to go do going forward. So, those are very valued activities. Um there's also a recognition of the importance of the whole child and you at the um, strength of the district in being attentive to whole child needs. Um, it's a supportive community that invests in the schools. Um, town boards, families and residents collaborate to fund and sustain district initiatives. So, those were the strengths identified by your participants. Um, there and sometimes you'll see that the some things that are considered strengths
010turn up under challenges as well. Um, like budget. Uh, the budget constraints and re- resource allocation. Um, Cromwell faces persistent budget pressures that shape every aspect of the district. Uh, they people were questioning how resources are allocate allocated citing sometimes top-heavy administrative structure, insufficient investment in classroom level supports such as teachers, paraeducators and interventionists. I'm hearing that in a lot of places right now. There's a sense that um, especially as paras have been harder and harder to ensure in schools, there's that need has been felt in in different communities. Um, people talked of rising costs, um, community expectations and political dynamics that can make budget decisions contentious. Gee, that doesn't happen anywhere else. >> [laughter] >> Uh, but many believe that the district um, should more clearly align spending with direct student needs and strengthen
011its ability to advocate for sustainable funding. Um, staffing shortages and retention and morale came up as a as an issue for you. The district struggles to recruit and retain teachers and paras and substitutes because partly of compensation and working conditions contributing to turnover. Para shortages are especially acute and especially in the early career educator area. Um, so on to special ed demands and student needs, there's been a significant rise in students with and this is true everywhere, with complex academic, behavioral and social emotional needs is and especially within um, special education. Classrooms are more challenging to manage without adequate support um, and there's some concern about inconsistent services. Uh, student behavior, mental health and accountability issues continued to you know, um, student behavior issues and increased disruptions were mentioned by a number of people and
012there's some sense of insufficient consequences for behaviors and we know that there are constraints on um, on those consequences in some cases. So, trust, communication and leadership culture. One thing we did find is a a significant divide between staff and administration. Um, constituents felt that leadership didn't consistently listen to or act on staff feedback. And there was some report of fear of retaliation. Um, communication is often described as inconsistent or top-down and yet you heard that as a strength also in the earlier section. Uh, another challenge is curriculum, instruction and academic rigor. Um, constituents found inconsistencies in curriculum and a need for stronger alignment particularly in literacy. Staff expressed some frustration with frequent changes, lack of and I mean I'm this is another thing I'm hearing. I think there are so many mandates that are
013coming down from on high in in Hartford and other places that um, people are are frustrated by how much change they've been needing to to make. Mary, that's the entire policy committee's agenda is to amend our policies so that they're consistent with all the legal changes that happen due to legislative initiatives. Yeah, yeah. There there does seem to be an increasing need to control from Hartford. So, um, there's concern about balancing support for struggling students with opportunities to challenge high-achieving learners. So, that is something I'm hearing in other places as well. There there's a feeling that middle kids in the middle can be getting lost in the shuffle, too. Um, professional development and teacher voice. Teachers reported limited input into decision-making um, around instruction and professional development priorities with insufficient time to collaborate and refine
014practice. And some perceive professional development as compliance-driven. Wonder why? Uh, rather than responsive to classroom realities. The further you get away from those student teacher and this is what Jack would always say, right? That student teacher um, learning moment. If you're making decisions in Hartford, it's a whole lot harder to get it right. So, right? Um, let's see, where was I? We talked I just lost my place. Where were we at? Community dynamics. Yes, okay. Um, Cromwell's close-knit community had you know, poses both great strength and we heard so much about how much strength there is, but there are also some demanding parent groups, um, some who may bypass established chain of command. Um, and social media can amplify concerns and misinformation. And you also do have some different political and social viewpoints that create
015attention. Um, consistency, systems and organizational coherence. There seem to be inconsistencies across the schools regarding discipline, communication expectations and student support. Um, systems aren't always aligned or reliably implemented um, and with leadership turnover and shifting initiatives, there is a a sense of instability created. Uh, facilities, infrastructure and safety. Some facilities are state-of-the-art as you well know and others require some attention um, and there's a sense of inequitable investment across schools. People are concerned about safety, both physical and emotional and um, student behavior and and security measures. And they feel that this is going to require some strategic planning and continued investment. Um, student engagement, attendance and opportunity gaps. The district faces challenges with student engagement including absenteeism, uh, declining attention spans, impact of technology. I wonder if there's any district in the country that couldn't
016name this as a challenge, but um, people are concerned about the impact of smartphones and AI on on students' brains. Um, and constituency C gap constituents, sorry, C gaps in opportunities for advanced learners, for career exploration and enrichment programs. And expanding pathways and increasing engagement are really important to meeting diverse student interests and preparing all learners for future success. I'm seeing you nodding. You are very much aware of that. So, at this point um, I'm going to just introduce the data from the survey about what um, Cromwell constituents say they're looking for in a new leader and then Jack's going to go into the detail behind that, right? It's possible. >> [laughter] >> Um, so what was very interesting This is divided into expertise and then qualities. There were two I have never seen this
017happen before, which is very interesting. There were two areas of expertise that um, the majority of your constituents by far thought were most important. One is building trusting relationships with students, staff and community and the other is communicates and collaborates effectively in schools and community. Now, those are usually numbers one and two. What's different is how much more overwhelmingly they rose to the top here. Um, and it was true What we What I have presented to you is people's number one choice as they took the survey, they were asked to rank one to five on the most important areas to them. So, the number one, 30 almost 36% selected as number one, the building trusting relationships. Uh, it's a a lot fewer, but uh, communicates and collaborates effectively was 16%. But if you look at
018the people who had those areas in their top five, it was 87% for builds trusting relationship and essentially 80% for communicates and collaborates effectively. Is that clear to everybody? Nothing else had the majority of your constituents. So, if we look at the qualities, there were three key qualities that rose to the top in people's first choices. One was somebody who's approachable accessible, approachable, and visible in schools and community. Really important to people. And that was 29% of your survey participants. And then trustworthy, honest, and respectful was essentially 22%. And then keeps students growth and well-being the primary focus was just under that at almost 20%. Um they also were one, two, and three in the top five choices. But now they're joined with inspirational leader and team builder as the fourth um quality that people
019would like to see in the new leader. Is that all clear to everybody? Yeah. Okay. So, Jack, do you want to take it from there? Yeah. Um all I can tell you is that Mary got a new car and I was navigating and I just have been praying a lot all while I was driving cuz we were really moving to get here and sorry that we're cutting it so close. Um What did Mary get? She got a RAV4. It's beautiful car, but I'll I'll tell you it's I think it's ready for off-road. Anyway, um I'm really doing largely and the last time I spoke here, I think I had to be told five times to speak closer to the microphone. I had it in my mouth coming out my ear. >> It's much better, Jack.
020>> [laughter] >> Much better this time. I think it was the zoom You yell at me at any point, please. I'm kind of used to it. Um Remembered. Uh Now, we um just just a a point especially for those of you that weren't here last time. Uh people listening and and parents um this is a a project in putting the um the profile together that Mary puts an incredible amount of work into and I do as much editing of it as I can. I've got a couple of different drafts here. Um the detail you've really heard a lot of it and we'll go over the detail page 11 and page 12. Um and I will do my best to stick with uh what the data says. What the data they what the data say? There's
021two of us in the room that know what it's like to be a superintendent at 2:00 in the morning. Uh there's a whole lot of people that think they know what the superintendency is like. But it's like the elephant. You know, they see a part of it. Not too many see the whole. Um and I will probably fade into editorializing cuz some part of it I couldn't agree with more. And other parts I I worry that they're just missing. So, I'll try to stick with the data first of all. Um and Mary already mentioned the main categories. Okay, builds trusting relationships. People want so much to not be lied to. And I usually have joked with graduate courses and people preparing to be a superintendent and tell them you can't say this is the best
022school system in the world for 11 months and the other month that the budget's being bad, this is the worst superin- We're falling apart here. It's going to hell. Um it needs to be trusting. It needs to be honest. It needs to be open. And that's one thing that I think Mary gets at and this thing this document gets at. Because at least my experience is when you start off by saying, "Well, what's wrong with this place?" you get a lot of comments about what's wrong. When you start off with what's good, what are the strengths, people are almost shocked at their own lists. The district obviously has an enormous enormous amount of support, positive comments. Um the community has support and positive comments. But then we need to get to and push focus groups
023or data sources to the other side of the coin. What do you think you need? What do you think this new person, whoever takes over as superintendent, is going to have to face within the first two days, six months, year, two years? Um and so you're going to hear some stuff that you know, you probably think that that's exaggerated. Well, it it might be. It might be a small population. It might be a huge population. But there are reactions. The trust the trusting relationship is so frequently the first thing. They don't want someone that's lying to them. They don't want someone they can't trust. They don't want a leader that they don't know why he or she is going wherever the hell heck they're going or whatever decisions are being made. And you can see
024from the language in here and you can read it probably a whole lot better than I can read it cuz I'm struggling to um But they want they want honesty. They want a transparent. They want a an authentic trusting relationship. Um I'll go on, but let me come back to that because that can be overdone, too. I think you need more than a relationship. I think it's more than a populist perspective. Um communicates and collaborate collaborate effectively. Communication is so so important and it can be overdone. I'm seeing too many places where the digitized world that we live in lends itself to reams and reams and reams of communication. Sometimes it says less and less and less. It needs honesty and openness. It needs huma- humanity. There needs to be a human element on it.
025Um and interviewing administrators, I already always said if they don't talk about kids in the first sentence or two, I say next. Um seriously, what kind of authentic relationships do you want? You want the person to be honest and you want the person to be able to say, "I love kids. I like to work with kids. I want to do all I can for kids." So, if I come and say to you, "We need an 8.5% budget next year." it's not for me. It's for the kids. And and so frequently and I'm finding that in obituary notices lately that the kids aren't mentioned. People are in education for the reason to serve children. And sometimes it's serve children through the Board of Ed as Mary mentioned earlier. I've always said that the purpose of the
026school is the teacher teaching learning relationship. We are support to that. All of us have that. That's what you are. Without the teaching group, you're nothing. You're a government body someplace. Um and and that to me with the relationship on the trusting is vital. Those relationships have to be authentic, real, open, and active listen to the point of not wanting to hear that the emperor has no clothes. Not wanting to hear that the budget's inadequate. Not wanting to hear that I'm bringing in my own resources every day. Well, that's the world we live in. Uh so, relationships, communicates and collaborates. It really is a collaboration. Leadership in this arena isn't like running a hardware store. It isn't like saying I'm going to decide this is the hammer we're going to sell. It depends on getting
027along with and influencing a lot of other agencies, a lot of other people. Certainly the teaching group. Certainly the administrative group. Certainly the Board of Ed. Eventually the Board of Finance, the town selectmen. But that's so always so high in communicates and collaborates. Seeing a collaborative environment all told. And we can get to the detail in there if if you want, but you know what that what that means. The the third one on page 11 accessible, approachable, and visible in schools and community. Um I agree with all that. I always, you know, people are saying the person has to be in the schools. I always thought every day I was in the school was a vacation day. It isn't like, "Oh, damn, I got to go to the school today." No. The superintendent's office is
028a great place to get out of and to go sit in a classroom and I stumbled into a bunch of pictures of me uh sitting in a on a floor in my inner suit with first grade, second grade kids and they'd say, "Can you help us?" I don't know. What are you doing? And the teacher look over and wink at me and keep going. Um I think that that sort of collaboration, that sort of love and joy, and that sort of visibility um too frequently visibility and I'm not picking on any local uh operation. I don't know it. But it's seen as a photo op. It's seen as a traveling uh visible, you know, Tuesday's the morning I'm in Miss Jones's class. Um I think you're better off with a cup of coffee or box
029of Joe in the lounge if you really want to be seen and talked to um and addressing the issues that are that they feel, whoever it is, the paraprofessionals, the teachers, the administrators. One way or another that the accessibility is attained. Um it's real and it isn't just a visibility at a football game. Um that may be important. But that accessibility means to have a little open relationship and being able to say, "How is your daughter doing? I heard she's been sick." Um Anyway, culminates at these communicates and collaborates effectively and we can look at parts of that. Accessible, approachable, and visible in the schools and community. If you're too visible in the community, you're probably not doing the job back in the office, you know? Um, I know our pred- my predecessor got in
030trouble for being out and getting coffee at a Dunkin' Donuts. Um, I would have been fired in the first week if that was the problem. Um, but how do you get that accessibility? How do people see you? People know you. Um, that's vital. They need to be developed the trust, the relationship, the communication so they feel comfortable coming, uh, calling, walking in the door and saying my kid's in trouble. Uh, how do you save time in the day for the emergency that the parent walks in in tears? It happens. The telephone calls you don't want feel like you're calling Fidelity and getting shuttled from a robot to robot, but rather I need to get to someone that can help me. Um, those things are easier said than done. But if they're not maintained, pretty soon
031the person's seen as isolated. The person's seen as a as a introvert. The person's seen as I'm not doing the job. And I'll get to back in a personal perspective of some of that. Trustworthy, honest, and respectful. Sometimes both of them are pretty hard, especially respectful. It's hard to be have rocks thrown at you. Um, and um, be respectful. I had told some group one workshop we did at one point we had a video of a community in Connecticut, and I can think of at least two of them, where the board meeting broke out in a fist fist fight. Where people were throwing throwing rocks. I mean, literally fighting, punching the daylights out of each other. And they had to have police there. Um, that's not good governance. We're here to represent the community. And
032the commonalities are frequently far, um, better, surpassing what they are in the United States Congress. How do you get to the point that you're not dealing all the time with the differences, but you're dealing with the commonalities? And the differences, frankly, you know, trustworthy, honest, and respectful. We can be trustworthy, honest, and respectful with people that we totally d- disagree with on a given topic. That person might be the best ally at the next topic. If everybody agreed, we'd only need one. Everybody else go home. We're going to have disagreements, and you need to have a superintendent who is able to show respect and and accept personal criticism, criticism of school, or criticism of people that shouldn't be criticized in public. Um, and and and those things, and we can get to the questions that
033got to them or the focus groups that got to them. But it's common. It's It's common in in so many of them, and you have it, too. When you get past the strengths, and when you get past the the challenges, and get to what are you looking for a person? What sort of characteristics do you want? What sort of expertise do you want? Um, student growth and well-being is the primary focus. It really should be on everything. The budget isn't a numbers document. It's a values document. You're going to get your so many millions of dollars. Now, where are you going to put it? And those are values. Is how important is class size? How important is phys ed? How important is the our pathways to career exploration? It's really a values document. And um,
034the student growth, the student needs should be the primary issue on the values. And you can read read that there. The student, student, student. Well, it's easy to say it and not mean it. It's easy to get away from it. You want to find a person who that really and truly is what he or she's about. Loving to deal with kids and wanting to make the school better. And if if the school isn't right, fixing it for the kids. If the teacher isn't right, fixing it for the kids. Um, and I worked for 20 some odd years at the State Department of Ed in Massachusetts, and can really empathize with the compliance as the um, uh, generating professional development. They're at a different level trying to orchestrate 169 cities and towns. Um, and some of
035them have never been in the position that you're in or you're in or the administrators or teachers are in. Um, and they don't understand that the subjects have to be individualized. Some people learn to read uh, automatically at the age of three, and others will need phonics right up through a a late era. Um, many in the State Department frequently don't understand what it's like to really deal with different different kids. Um, keep the growth and well-being as the primary focus. And the person as you're entertaining candidates, as you're interviewing, see who you think really will keep the kids as the number one focus. Not keep you as the number one focus. Not keep the board. Not keep the finance. Not keep the budget. Keep the kids. And you keep the curriculum because that's what's
036the kids are supposed to be able to do. And you keep instruction cuz that's serving the kids. And when you got a group of teachers, I I was thinking the other day, crazy thought, but when you have um, a resource that costs $200,000, and you have another resource that costs two or three million dollars. How do you play that game? Well, the superintendent may cost $200,000, but the teachers cost two or three million. And you got to use that expertise. The expertise of a public school system in the United States is unvital unbridled. I mean, it's it's unbelievable. They go from probably could make nukes as a physics teacher to trying to get special ed kids to be able to tie their shoelaces. And that's the norm. That's what this is all about, bringing together
037phenomenal expertise. And being able to orchestrate it well enough that you get that incredible value and love and respect. And we were referred to as magic at one point, and it made us feel so good. Um, this last page in page is really concluding it can trying to make a conclusion of the whole research study. And it is a research study, and it used technology to help with the analysis, and it used individual analysis to try to editorial, you name it. So, where is it the product of technology, and where is it the product of data source? I hope um, it reflects what your population said and wants. Uh, from a little bit of expertise beyond the population. You need people that know their expertise. They're not going to know how to teach physics and
038teach first grade. So, they'd better respect the daylights out of the people that teach physics and teach first grade or teach middle school or teach math or teach English. They'd better love teaching. And have respect for that whole group and develop a camaraderie that says, uh, together we can do this really well. Divided, anyone who thinks it's management first labor like it might be in that hardware store I mentioned, doesn't understand public service. Sure as the daylights doesn't understand the public education where the kids are so different, and some are broke, and some are brilliant, and the spread is enormous. And we've got to come up with a way to deal with that. And I think my my view of the total package here is that the strengths are awesome. The challenges are there, and
039they're in most school systems. The conclusion is how do you not lose any of the strengths? How do you take the strengths? And we call them challenges. We don't call them weaknesses because the strengths may be what you need to focus on to maintain it and expand it. And the challenges may be what you need to focus on if you want to keep the ship afloat. Um, it's both. I I could think of is a tale of two cities. Cuz you got one city and town and school system that is glowing, and others say, but here's some things that need to be done. So, please don't take offense at the negatives. Don't say, how dare they think that of us? Um, think that there's someone out there, some people out there that want better relationships,
040better communication, better expertise. And the expertise, I think, and I used to joke about it, and if you I mentioned, um, or- orchestrating the Boston Pops is kind of like the skill. Because to a degree, you don't need to be able to play the violin or teach first grade. You don't need to be able to teach physics. You need to understand what's good education in first grade. You need to recognize good education in physics and everything in between. And be able to say, we need to do it differently, or we need to recognize and reward what's going on. Um, but it takes the orchestration to make the whole thing fit. And that's who you're looking for. That's what you're looking for. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Jack. So, what we will do with this before we
041open it for any questions that you have. This would be the guide for, um, analyzing your candidates, whom you want to bring in for interviews. We're thinking about questions that would get at the strengths and and challenges and and unearth whether the individual is the right fit for Cromwell at this point in time, and that kind of thing. And um, so this will help, um, again, generating questions and helping you with your consideration of your different candidates. So, >> [cough] >> questions. [clears throat] I'm opening it up to all of you. Mrs. Lam. Just a um a quick process question first. So, are you drafting the interview questions for us or are we drafting them as a result of knowing this? Um so, no. We will take uh we will bring a bank of questions
042to our next meeting together, which will will be of the just the search committee. And you can bring any questions that you think would be helpful, too. We can reword questions. You pick the questions. You decide what you want to ask. And we provide some samples. Okay. Thank you. They get it of all these different you know, issues. Excellent. And then I have a sec second question. Um Jack, you said uh you're going to take us through the data, but you also thought something was missing. Or was that what you talked through? You were describing the Yeah, the only Oops. The only point I was trying to make is I hope sometimes, occasionally, you say, "What do you think?" Because I'm not supposed to tell you what I think, and Mary will probably hit me
043if I do. Um the right thing that we're doing is bringing process, and I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I've joked about if I find myself sitting like this during an interview, you know I'm not very impressed. Um someplace along the line, people refer to the relationship. I'm I'm a advocate of Ken Blanchard. He was at UMass when I went through my doctoral program. And we really wrestled a lot with relationship first task. There's a lot of tasks, responsibilities, that the superintendent has to have. They better understand budgeting. They should understand curriculum. They darn well better understand good instruction. They'd better understand motivating and inspiring people, and that frequently isn't what comes out in the data. Sometimes it is. A lot of the relationship is. And I remember
044the first time we we had data fed through AI, and I thought, "Gee, AI must use a lot of research." It wasn't. It was all from the community. When you get the whole community, a lot of great stuff comes. But sometimes it sounds a little bit like French cuffs in a nice suit to me. Sometimes it sounds a little too like the first selectman or the mayor. A political position in the town, building relationships and being popular. That to me is frosting on the cake. The real thing is, can you run a school system? Can you manage the incredible complexity of a school system? If the lawn isn't mowed, people figure they can't teach reading, either. It's a very complex organization with a lot of complex structures. And I just want to be sure that
045if I'm miserable at any time, >> [laughter] >> that you can ask or I can say, "You know, don't forget the curriculum. Don't forget the blueprint for instruction. Don't forget the hiring practice. Don't forget the good good lawyer that you can get rid of a teacher that needs to go. And I don't think that's a major part of it. If you got good hiring practices, you may never need that. But if there's a person that is damaging uh uh my child's third grade experience, they'd better not be there next year. So, how how do you hold people accountable for being great? Not for being pretty darn good. Good is the enemy of great. Um we got to produce excellence. And I think that's part of it. You don't want someone that can get you to
046the Super Bowl. You want someone that can win it. Um you want someone that can provide greatness. And um that is not in any way, shape, or form any criticism of what you have. Believe me, I'm not dealing with that. But I'm dealing with how do you How do we help you create a marriage? And maybe marriage isn't the best example, either. But of you of a board of ed of a town and a superintendent, so that you don't wind up thinking we goofed and we're now going to spend the next 3 years getting rid of him or her. Cuz that will damage the kids' education. And when you guys are a governance team, that's great. And we like to run a workshop at times for governance teams. Um the research shocked me that a
047really good governance team gets good student scores. It really works. If the system is good, it's great. If the system is mediocre, it isn't great. And I had a book on my bookcase facing out that said, "If you don't feed the teachers, they eat the kids." Um you know, and and that that isn't just humorous. It's humorous. But teachers have to be happy when it's Monday morning. Teachers have to be humorous when it's Monday morning. Um and that means we got to create an environment that's joyful. Yeah. That's I hope I answered your >> Completely agreed. Can I ask a follow-up? >> Sure, but I just want to let everybody know that this portion of our meeting is public, and then we will ask talk with Mary and Jack with specific updates about our search.
048So, I just want to save those questions for the search committee meeting. But yes, please go ahead. Sure. So, from a just follow-up perspective, this survey was definitely focused around leadership qualities and values and things like that, which I completely understand, and it was awesome feedback that we got from the community and everybody that participated. Um I am not in the education world. So, as we go through this process, you know, you mentioned there's some basic, you know, the get to just even be at the party. You know, you've got to have certain qualifications. So, are you also helping us tease out what are those basic qualifi Okay. So, it's going to be a It's we're not just asking questions about leadership values and how they build community and culture within the school system. We're
049also talking about experience based on whether you've been a superintendent before or how you've helped build Okay. Yes. So, you're going to help us with the whole package of questions. Yes. >> Okay. I'm good. Thank you. Thank you. Mrs. Manny. As I went through this as I went through this, Okay. As I went through Up, and I Oh, okay. See, Jack, I can't even do it. >> [laughter] >> And I've been practicing longer. As I went through this, um there was a part of me that said, "Oh my god, this is 1973 all over." A lot of what was described here in which both there are things that are antithetical to one another, but are also sort of cooperating with one another, the strengths and the weaknesses that can be both strengths and weaknesses. Um
050the situation with uh kids, with the one or two kids in a classroom who can disrupt and uh create a situation that is difficult for the teacher as well as the students to learn. Uh Believe me when I tell you uh 1973 was an amazing year, and I was only 23 years old. But when, you know, one of the students dropped his pants in front of me, I said, "Okay. >> [laughter] >> So, where did this come from?" Um it was something Yes. Okay. >> Yes, comments first and then a question. It was it was amazing to think that we had such a very a varied group of um students. As you said, the kid the student The students who are being taught physics, the students who are being taught how to tie their shoes.
051But in the end, what I think, and I'm not sure that we can see data for this, and I'm not sure that it's easy to evaluate, but I think it comes down to is personality. I can um I can tell you that, and I say this with 100% authority, that if the your if your child comes home and says, "I really enjoyed I just happen to teach English, but if I really enjoyed English today," um I'm hoping that they're not Now, I'm talking about high school kids. I'm hoping they're not going to explain a certain etymology that had, let's say, um rather sexual connotations, but were very important to the to the story and to the play of Romeo and Juliet. But what I know is that they went home to talk about that class
052because one, they liked the teacher. Wait a minute. I'm so sorry, but we only have I know. I know. Okay. Matt didn't raise his hand yet. One, they liked the teacher. Two, they found it enjoyable. And that was before screens and devices and this kind of thing. I don't know how you evaluate that in a superintendent, but I think that person having the personality in which you can tell that he or she loves kids, that he or she has a personality, and and can be both can be both strict about policy when she has to and also understanding that maybe this criticism of her has to be looked at. Do you agree with that and do you agree, there's the question, do you agree that sometimes data doesn't show that? Sometimes even interviewing that person
053face to face doesn't show that. >> [snorts] >> And the perfect example is the number of superintendents in our area who have been hired and frankly should have never been hired in the first place, but there was something there, either desperation on the part of those systems, but there was something there that made them seem like a good hiree hired person. A good person to be hired. Do you agree with that that sometimes data doesn't show that part? >> Yeah, I mean I do think that one of the the keys for successful superintendents is that the individual loves not just kids but people. I mean that's huge and knows how to relate to people from all backgrounds. Um and the ways that you need to really tease that out uh involve things beyond the application.
054It it really is heart to heart reference checks, really deep reference checks. And and you can get a sense of the personality during the interview if you ask the right questions. Who does that though? Who checks the references? Well, you are welcome to help check the references, but we do it. So we are happy to do it. But we're also happy to share that responsibility because I think it's helpful when board members hear from references and have you know have that direct opportunity. Now many people just don't have the time to do it and serve on the board. So we will do it, but we're happy to share that. You know the the flip side of that is we've been in with several boards that not only do they read the references carefully, but they
055Google the individual. >> Yeah. Um so there's a today uh it's pretty easy to get information about what a person's like. And I remember telling uh um graduate courses again uh if you think that the president of the teachers association doesn't check with the president of the teachers association from where that person came, you're crazy. Of course they do. Um there there's lots of different ways to skin a cat. And where is it personality or I've I've locked onto the word temperament. Yes. Um all of that is fascinating and then you're right, an interview isn't the best the only way to get at it. Um but it may be all the only tools that we have. Looking at the data, looking at the papers, looking at the references, calling the right people. Um and tough
056questions. And by the finalists I've always said ask the toughest question you can think of. Ask the question that you think you would vote no on that person if they don't answer it right. I that's the final interview or you're really down to probably three people and you got to make a call that's going to affect that person's career and life and family and affect your school system for the next God knows how many years. Um these are vital interactions that you're talking about and you just don't want it to be glossed over. And I think some of it is also that we have you both as our team to help us support and we have Miss Tomorrow who interviews people every day and helps make sure that we have the best teachers we possibly
057could in our district. So I feel like we have and and all of you in your professional experiences and in your personal lives in knowing what you what we're looking for. So I'm hopeful that we have the team that's going to help us find the ideal person. I mean this is a tall order what we've asked for and big shoes to fill for whoever steps into them. So we know that it's an uphill battle for whoever starts this um adventure with us, but I really am confident that we have a lot of expertise around this table to be able to help us get there. And grateful for you to for leading us through this this process and doing the deep dive into the references and doing the deep dive into someone's background and history and
058past experiences. So thank you for for supporting us through this. If I could make just one more point, I know too many, but um it's a two-way interview. If the candidates are good, they're interviewing you as much as you're interviewing them. If they're not good, they're saying what they what they think you want to hear. If they are good, they're testing you. And if you get so that you are a good board of ed, I'm assuming from everything I've seen you're a good board of ed. Um in spite of being on a screen some No, never mind. I'm kidding. Um is is that is what why a person wants to choose to be here. If you if you you know half of you have red ties and the other half have blue ties and you
059make vulgar gestures at each other, you know who wants to take that job? Um but when there's a commonality and it's usually about loving kids and wanting the best for kids. Uh you'll sell Cromwell to the candidate. I I just also say sitting in a room with your students would sell anybody. They were so um and what they said just about how every single one of them felt so supported and loved and given opportunities. And if the opportunity wasn't right there somebody would help them design it. So it was really extraordinary to have that time with them and really get at the heartbeat of the district. So thank you for that. Are we good with questions? Oh. No? All right. You were you were teed up, so thank you. I I was teed up, but
060now I'm going to try and hit the ball. Which I failed a lot at over the break. So I I thank you so much for for taking all this data together and compiling into this this wonderful summary. I was really uh really pleased to see as a teacher um that we had a a a significant response from the Cromwell teachers in the both the focus groups um and in the survey responses. I I feel like um you know they gave themselves a pretty strong voice in this process. Um I was really also happy to see that uh parents and guardians were another significant participant group in the surveys particularly. Um so I I I you know I'm I'm enthusiastic that families and teachers are fairly well represented in this data. Um what I'm curious about
061is is there a way for us to see just the data from teachers and just the data from families and just the data from students or is that would that be too big of an ask? Um so family >> Or would you advise against it? That's okay, too. I I'm just trying to think about how I mean I think we probably could make that just the raw data you mean. Yeah, just out of curiosity. Yeah, I think we probably could do that. Would that be I mean >> know if everybody wants that, but um I'm interested in the teacher part. The teacher part. Let me just make a note of that. Jack is always saying I need to be disaggregating the data along those lines. I feel like it's a need nationally cuz I think
062people get the general thing of what does the town perspective, parents have a different perspective, the kids have a different perspective. God knows the board of finance or town frequently over budget has a different perspective. Um and it helps to know for the candidate to know this is how rabid that group is and this is how supportive this group is. Uh so that they're not just talking to the general. But I think that that could also help us in our decision making. >> Absolutely. I agree. So we it's easy to do it with the survey data. It would be harder to do it with the Well, it actually wouldn't. I do have that divided by focus group. So never mind. I'm not I'm not trying to make you know a ton more work for you
063here. I'm just I think it's valuable information to know which groups are looking for for which things. >> I used to say that I didn't think the number was huge for the teachers. I was kind of hoping for more. There's >> [laughter] >> Um I would it just in looking at this, it it looks like there were 59 teachers that responded in the survey, which seems like a small percentage of teachers and 17 for the focus groups. Um That's not bad. That's more than a quarter then. Teachers? Teachers? >> 190 teachers. Yeah. Oh, I thought it was two I'm sorry. I thought it was 212. But you know I kept So it's 190 teachers. So it's a higher percentage than I thought. Yeah, it's way more. It's way more in survey world. Yeah. In survey
064world, I think that's good, especially you know obviously being an educator as many of us in this room are, um taking the time even 10 or 15 minutes to try and do a survey. By the time I get home, I've I've kind of forgotten that I was going to do that unless I like put it on to my list of things to do, right? And finding the time during the day is, I mean, a near impossibility most days. So, I was kind of I don't know, at least percentage-wise, I thought it was pretty significant. But yes, I would like to have seen all 190. >> [laughter] >> Right. And I think we we probably could have figured out a way to get the students to respond differently because they only would respond if the parent
065showed them the survey to do it. They didn't really get And I think some of the questions were not I did a little debriefing with 20 high school boys over vacation to ask them if they looked at the survey and then when I pulled it up, they didn't really understand some of the questions cuz they were much more high-level than some of them. And we had great discussions about what a superintendent does and what they want to see, but that was not The survey was just not easily >> They just care about the snow days. They do. And the cell phone policy, which I also I won't bring it up again here cuz everybody will flip out, but yes, cell phone policy. I did actually begin the um conversation. I shouldn't be telling tales out
066of school, but I did start the conversation asking students whether what they knew about the role of a superintendent. [laughter] And number one was snow days. Well, I get emails. >> Yeah. They're not afraid to email me. >> [laughter] >> They're not afraid. Okay. So, if we are good with this portion of the meeting, then we can adjourn at 8:37. Thank you, everybody. And I'll ask um members of the board and um Mary and Jack, if you guys can stay for just a few minutes.