001We are out of executive session. Thank you everybody. And I am going to ask for a motion to approve the agreement between the Croml Board of Ed and the Education Association of Croml for our teachers contract dated July 1st, 2026 through June 30th, 2029. Oh. >> Oh, Donna. Donna, you got the motion. Matt will second. Thank you. Appreciate >> um >> all in favor. All right. Any >> any abstensions or opposition? Thank you. The um motion passes. Excellent. Much appreciated. And we're going to go on a temporary pause while um Jessica can get the presentation set up and we're going to go into >> our board training from Shipman and Goodwin. >> This presentation is going to be part of our public meeting. >> All right. So, somebody has to eat and take home the
002rest of the candy. [laughter] >> We'll leave it. We'll leave it in the in the office. Okay, so I am calling us back into order and Jessica Ritter is joining us from Shipman who is our attorney and offers us phenomenal advice on many issues including on board governance. So that's what we're going to learn about tonight. So, I'll turn it over to Jessica. Thank you, Jess. >> Great. Thank you. Um, congratulations to our new members. Jessica, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you. And >> Donna, nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you. >> Um, so you guys let me know because I know that you've had quite a long night. So, just so that How long do you want me to go so that I can >> We also, the three of
003us also spent the day with Cabe. Okay. We did the CABE new board member orientation or board leader orientation today and got to learn a lot. So, I don't know how long you can how quickly you can do this, but I'm thinking like >> I got all >> Don't Don't listen to the peanut gallery. I'm thinking like 10 o'clock probably is close to our limit. Donna and Jessica and I started at 8 this morning. >> Yep. I will fly through it then. >> Um take your time. >> Sure. Absolutely. Um, okay. So, for I would say that typically when I do this presentation, um, our seasoned people certainly feel that maybe they won't learn something new, but I bet you will learn something new. And then hopefully for our new board members, um, hopefully this
004is informative. So, we're going to talk a little bit about your legal roles and responsibilities. So, as a board of education member, you are part of the Cromwell local board of education. The local board of education is an agent of the state. So, if you actually go to the Connecticut Constitution and you look at the Connecticut Constitution, it specifically delegates, the legislature delegates to our local boards of education the um charge of implementing the educational interests of the state. So, I always like to start this presentation with the reminder that your job is always to look at what is in the best educational interests of our students. And whenever you are here and you are thinking and you are deliberating, that is what you should be focused on. And that actually is your charge, not
005only in our Connecticut constitution, but also in all of the statutes that are codified in title 10. Um, in our Connecticut general statutes, you are also a policy maker for the school district. So, think big picture, right? You are not meant to be part of the operational day-to-day. That's why you have your superintendent of schools. If you look at Connecticut General Statutes 10-157, Dr. Machri is specifically listed in that statute as your chief executive officer. She is your one employee, meaning she is the only employee that you have the right to evaluate her performance. Then you rely on her and people like Dr. McClean and your administrative team to evaluate everyone down from the rank below superintendent or assistant superintendent. Um so again your roles I need to concern myself with broad questions of policy
006and not administrative details. And that's very important to understand that you're not here to micromanage Dr. Machri and her team. You're here to think big picture. You have to act within the scope of this meeting. Um and so that's an important delineation to keep in mind as you um start your tenure here on the board. Um so let's talk a little bit though about your rights and authority as board of education members. So, you really actually don't have any greater rights than any other citizen who is here in Cromwell or across the state. Um, the only time that you are able to act on behalf of the school district is as a unified board. And that doesn't mean that you're always going to agree on everything, but remember, you can't act unilaterally. You have to
007act through consensus and through the deliberation process at your meeting. I want you to be mindful though that you still maintain a first amendment right to speak as a citizen. So what that means is if you want to go on social media and we certainly see a lot of boards of education members going on social media and there is an issue about today you were talking about whether or not to support the co-op for hockey and let's say Alicia went on social media and said I I really um wanted to support the co-op hockey program and I'm disappointed that the rest of my team didn't. And then you went on and on about um why people should be supporting the co-op program. You absolutely have every right to do that. You maintain your first amendment
008right. You can use social media in that way. When we border on being inappropriate is when it appears that you're speaking on behalf of the board and you're not making a disclaimer that I'm speaking as Alicia, either mom or private citizen and this is how I feel. So, if you feel the need to go on social media, because I legally can't tell you that you can't go on social media, that you can't have some kind of platform, you're elected officials, you probably use some platform at some grassroots level to be elected in the first place. You just have to be very thoughtful and there should be a disclaimer that you are speaking as an individual and not on behalf of the board. So, that's very important. Yeah, Matt. So if I go outside, work on
009something. a school staff member decision. >> Let me just say let's just say >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> So, all right. Let's say let's say for example that um I don't know there's a there's something happens in a in a building with um new tiles putting being put in and and you know I go and take a look at them and and call the tile company that did it because I'm not happy with the job. That's I should not be doing that without the permission of the board. I really shouldn't be doing it at all, but I'm just I'm just trying to figure out where is the line of >> over. So again, it it's a it's a challenging one, right? Because I would say that the use of social media, the law on social
010media has not caught up to where we are. It has not yet evolved. >> I'm not even I'm not even think about social media. I'm going I'm kind of going back to your your other comment that >> you know as a board member >> I don't I'm not m I'm not it's not my job to micromanage anyone right where we supervise Enza Enza supervises everyone below her >> right >> yeah okay so if you're talking about making a comment about a staff member [clears throat] >> and I'm not I'm saying outside of social media I'm not including social media in this at all I'm saying now I asked to go meet and I don't even ask I I take it upon myself to call a custodian y >> and question the work that was That's
011extremely problematic and I'll tell you why. One, you have your CEO and so you have to trust in your CEO. You have given her a contract. You have put your trust in her. It is her responsibility if there is a problem with the way that something has been done. Let's say it's the business manager, a facilities director. It is up for Dr. Mackery to address that, not the board of education. And there's a variety of reasons for that. one, they're not your employee, but two, particularly if they're unionized staff, let's say a school administrator, they actually could file an unfair labor charge if they felt that a board of education member was intimidating them or using their office to intimidate them. And so I have had that happen where people have used their position inappropriately
012um and then the recipient of that has filed a charge and they were actually successful in filing that charge. And so we want to be very thoughtful about the fact that again if you have a problem with something like that the appropriate thing to do would bring it to Dr. Macker's attention and then Dr. Mery is to address it. Then if you feel that Dr. Macker has not done a good job in addressing that that's when you have that conversation with her about her ineffectiveness in terms of evaluating or holding that person accountable but through her performance evaluation not through that of anyone below her. >> Okay. >> Does that make sense? It does. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Similar similar kinds of situations um with Kate and the person would have said exactly what
013you said. However, you said in the case that you had the person felt intimidated and and even won the suit. But what was the charge? >> Yes. So let me give you the specific example on that one. So this was a school principal >> where and this is another thing I wanted to say. If you have students in the district, grandchildren in the district, you still have the right to advocate on behalf of your students, right? On behalf of your children, >> you don't shed that right or your first amendment right. But what happened here was this board of education member went to the school principal and she had every right as a parent to go up to that school principal and say, "You did not do right by my son." And it was specifically
014related to her son's IEP and she felt that the PPT had failed her son. Every right to go to the principal and say how she felt and she was angry. She had a right to express her anger. where she aired was she then said, "You wait until the board of education hears about this." >> So that's all he needed to say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second. You can talk to me as a parent, but you can't threaten me as an employee of the district because I don't work for you. I'm not your employee, and now it feels to me that you are retaliating against me and using your position to intimidate me." So he was able to file what's called an unfair labor charge at the labor board. Basically to say that she was
015interfering with his rights to do his job by using her position to un unduly influence the rest of the board of education members and he felt that it had a negative impact on his performance and his evaluation. So that's a very real scenario. Um and so >> one you said >> yeah I mean we um now one at the labor board means that we were the board member was told she had to cease and desist in engaging in that behavior. So that was the victory. >> Yeah. >> But you still spent a ton of money. You had to get legal counsel involved. So it's a waste of time. It's a waste of resources and it's embarrassing. Right. It definitely generated some publicity and some press. So, it's just to keep in mind that you have
016to draw appropriate boundaries. But I don't want you to think that you can't advocate for your kids or you still can't speak out on a matter that you feel strongly about. As long as you're using the disclaimer that I'm speaking as Donna, I'm not speaking on behalf of the board. >> Quick question on that. >> Yeah, sure. So, if it's an email, I wanted to recognize a teacher that, you know, my son's having a great experience. Do I write in the email? You know, I'm writing to you as a private citizen. >> No, what I would do, Jessica, because I'm gonna get to FOYA, >> what I would do >> is you only correspond with the teachers of your children through your personal email. You do not use your board email to do that. >>
017Fair. >> That's what I would do. You don't need to do a disclaimer. >> If you are using your board email, I would not be addressing teachers about your children. Fair. >> Yeah. >> So, that's the distinction that I would draw. Um, okay. So we talked about this. Uh Dr. Machi is your only employee. She reports directly to you. Then the superintendent acting through the administrative structure again is responsible for evaluating and addressing performance concerns of your employees. Just so our board of education members know, we've had I in other places I've had board of education members run on I didn't like this teacher or I didn't like this administrator and my um platform is going to be to get rid of you know let's say the high school principal just by way of an
018example and this board member the first thing they asked was I want to see all the performance evaluations of the high school administrator. Do you have the right as the board of education to ask or see those evaluations? >> No. >> You absolutely have no right. And do we know why? >> I think it's because you don't you don't act as an individual on on the board of education. It we can only have authority if we're part of the body. So how can I can I individually ask? I don't think so. >> So here's here's the answer. Under the freedom of information laws, the evaluation of an administrator or a teacher is not subject to disclosure without express consent of that administrator or that teacher. >> Contrast with though, if Donna said, "I want to
019see the evaluation of every single paraprofessional," she has every right to see that under FOYA because the evaluations of anyone below the rank of a teacher is subject to disclosure even without express consent. Now, if you were asking for that information, you'd be asking as a citizen because you'd still have the right to have that information. You couldn't then take that information and then try to tell Dr. Machi how to do her job and how to evaluate pair of professionals. That's where we would be crossing a line. But there is a legal distinction in terms of access to information with respect to performance evaluations based on the position. >> Um, okay. So some of the duties that you have. So let's talk about student confidentiality. Every now and then doesn't happen a lot in uh
020Cromwell. You may be called upon to play judge and jury in a student expulsion proceeding. >> So only the board of education can legally expel students. Um what would happen here is that if you were because we only need three members legally to expel. So let's say if Alicia, Matt, and Jessica show up to the expulsion proceeding, at that time I can give you confidential student information because in that moment under FURPA, which is the federal law that governs student confidentiality laws, you have the right to that information because you legitimately need to know that information in order to perform your job, which in that moment is deciding whether or not the alleged conduct constitutes an expelable offense and what the consequence should be. Now, let's say you see Donna in the grocery store the
021next day and Donna says, "Hey, Jessica, how did that expulsion hearing go? I want to hear the details. Tell me about it. Is that okay?" And it's not okay because Donna was not part of the expulsion proceeding and therefore did not have a legitimate need to know that information because she wasn't performing an express job function because she wasn't part of it. And so people have to be very very thoughtful about that. >> Another thing you want to be thoughtful about with respect to students is you may hear things, especially if you have children in the district. >> Okay, there were 15 kids vaping in the bathroom or there was a big fight at the dance. How come I haven't heard about any kid being expelled? Why haven't I been invited to an expulsion hearing?
022Dr. Macker, what is going on here? You have to trust that she legally can't share that information with you. And it could be for a variety of reasons. One, you could be hearing something that's more of a rumor mill than actual factbased. Two, before a student can be expelled, if they have uh if they receive special education services or if they have what's called a 504 plan, before you can expel them, you have to conduct what's called a manifestation hearing. If you determine in that manifestation hearing that they were vaping and that is a manifestation of their disability, she legally can't bring the expulsion forward. That could be another reason why the expulsion never happened. But she can't legally tell you that because you don't need that information to do your job because it's not
023coming to you for an expulsion hearing. She also can't give you the information in advance of an expulsion hearing because that would again be a violation of FURPA because you only need that information when you're there. It would also be a constitutional violation of the students rights because a student is entitled to what's called due process. I don't get due process if Jessica, Matt, and Allan go into the meeting knowing everything about the situation because you need to go in and judge impartially. And if you've been given chapter and verse ahead of time, I don't really get a fair proceeding as the student. So, you have to be really thoughtful about those things. And so, sometimes people get really upset with the superintendent and say, "Why aren't you sharing this information with me?" There are
024legitimate legally legal reasons why she's not sharing that information with you. So, just to also um this is going to be the same thing when we talk about teachers as well and employees. Yes. Okay. Okay. So, your first bullet was about executive session. So, I think that's super important to understand. >> Oh, I'm getting there. Oh, yeah. I'm getting there. So, I just want to talk um very quickly. I just want to highlight this point also with respect to employees. So, not only do you have confidentiality rights and you may sit as an impartial judge and jury with respect to students, you may be called upon to do that with employees as well. So, you have to be very thoughtful. Again, remember employees also have constitutional rights. They have the right to due process. I've
025had many situations where, let's say, something's very significant. Let's say there's an allegation that a teacher uh sexually assaulted a child and that teacher is out on administrative leave. They're the subject of a DCF investigation. And you go to Dr. Macker and say, "What is going on? Why don't I have any information? Why aren't you telling me anything? There's a reason why she's not telling you something. Because one, you have to let the DCF process play itself out before you could take any action. If it comes back as a substantiated issue, we're going to move to termination. And you ultimately, if it gets to termination, sit as judge and jury. If you have any information ahead of time and the teachers union finds out about that, they're going to claim I can't get a fair
026and impartial proceeding. So, there is a reason why Dr. Macker is not giving you chapter and verse while that employee is on leave. Again, there also could be potential student confidentiality issues if it's deemed to be a sexual assault of a student. You also have to balance the rights of the teacher. I I hate to say this, but I've seen false accusations out there that can be reckless and that can seriously impact or deteriorate the livelihood, right? Someone's livelihood or their professional reputation. So, there's a balancing act. And so, that's why you're not getting that information. It isn't because Dr. Macker just doesn't want to share it with you. There's a legal legitimate reason for it. And so you just have to be thoughtful and know she's going to share the information with you when
027it's appropriate. Now let's say in that situation it actually never comes to you because the teacher resigns. So it never actually comes to you for a termination hearing and then you say to Dr. Macher, I want to know how that matter was handled. You actually would have the right to be able to discuss that in an executive session and I will jump to FOYA in a minute where through an attorney client communication we could explain to you everything Dr. Macker and her team did to address the matter and to put you at ease that she followed legal protocols and so that would be completely appropriate but not until that teacher has resigned or we have some type of settlement agreement with that teacher. So, just things to keep in mind when I know as board
028members you want that information and that makes sense because you're going to get stopped by community members. When you get stopped by community members and they ask you about things of this nature, you have to give the party line of it's not my purview. It's not my jurisdiction. I'm happy to refer you to the superintendent of schools or if you talk to the school principal, that has to be your party line. as frustrating as that is because it isn't your role to insert yourself in these matters up and until we call upon you to do so >> and also just when >> discussion hap let's say that was to happen legal would be in the room we would have it um but yet if someone stops you in the grocery store you still can't tell
029anybody because it happened in executive session so really no one can ever know because it's confidential of what happened in this room >> absolutely But that person Yeah. Go ahead. That person who stopped a board of ed me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me member in the grocery store. >> What right does that person have? >> No, really. >> They don't. You're absolutely right, Donna. But people think they have a right to know. But you're 100% right. But you'll be surprised. You're going to get stopped by everybody and they're all going to ask you questions. >> Yes. >> I don't get out that much. [laughter] >> Safer that way. I was actually just saying to
030Jessica, um, if you knew the number of times I've had I've talked to people and had to end the conversation with you need to you need to contact the school principal to address this >> over the past four years. It's a lot. >> Yeah. >> I mean, you shouldn't even have to contact the school principal. You shouldn't be unless your child. >> I remind them of the process. Start with the teacher. If that doesn't work, you go to the next level and so forth. And I just explain the process. Um, but the reality is like there's things that I don't know, I can't know. and I can't comment on and it's a weird position to be in because you feel like because you're on the board you should know a lot of these things but
031there are legal reasons why we're not allowed to >> right >> you know as a former teacher teacher now we know that there were many times when was a student turned it off there was a student who could potentially be dangerous but we were never told about that student because of confidentiality and we'd say hey wait a minute though you know I I should know whether or not I'm going to, you know, push this kid a little bit today because maybe he'll just blow his mind and go nuts. And I had a kid who actually jumped up on I didn't have the kid. I knew the kid. >> Um he jumped up on a table in IIA back in the days when you had IIA with a hammer >> and he he looked pretty ferocious.
032He was a big high school kid. Um and people said, "Why didn't we know there could have been a a possible >> situation here? We didn't know anything was going on." Yeah, >> with with this poor kid, >> right? >> Um, but anyway, I mean, we got that as teachers all the time. >> Yeah. >> So, what I want to do because I want to be thoughtful is there's a lot embedded into this presentation, but I think what I'm going to do is I'm just going to jump ahead to Freedom of Information Act because then I can also touch upon executive session as Alicia asked. So, >> can I can I ask one thing real quick about due process hearings? So if if we are in the situation where we need to be in a
033hearing, we're one of the three members, do you or And so like do you give us a briefing of okay, you're you're in this hearing, this is what it's for. Here is your role. You know, just as a reminder, here's >> Absolutely, Jessica. So what would happen is in most situations, if it's a contentious full evidentiary hearing, you're going to have lawyers on both sides. So there'll be a lawyer to represent the board of ed. They'll walk you through the entire thing and then there's going to be a lawyer that represents the administration. There may be a lawyer for the family. So, it's actually like a mini little trial uh for lack of a better term. And you will always have legal counsel. Um because we would always advise the one area where a parent
034or student could file legal action is if they feel that their procedural rights were violated. And so, it's very important that the process plays itself out accordingly. >> Okay. So, would you brief us in advance on the process? I don't mean all of the details, but you'd say >> before you go into the room, this is >> Yes. >> Okay. Yep. >> And if it's your first time, certainly we could come, you know, 20, 30 minutes early and just say this is how it's going to play out. Absolutely. >> Yep. >> Thanks. I I'll just add we are really lucky to have Jessica because some of these things can be a little bit overwhelming, especially if you've never done it before, but she walks us through everything and to a point where she makes sure
035that we're comfortable. So, I I think if you if you're ever in that situation, she's she's at um she's going to make you feel better about it. >> Thank you. Do you want me to just walk through for you? Because I think these are things that I I really want to highlight for board members. Okay. Are we all using our Cromwell emails? Okay. Please, if there's one thing you take from today's night, do not use your personal email for board business. Now, I will tell you the overarching principle of FOYA right in Connecticut is the right of access to government. So Connecticut has the most extensive open sunshine laws probably in the country which basically means everything is available for public consumption or everything should be done in a public transparent open meeting unless a
036very very narrow exception applies. So you as public agencies have to conduct your business in public. You as public agents, any records that you maintain are going to be subject to public disclosure unless a narrow narrow exemption applies. Please do not put anything in writing. Now, I say this every time I give this presentation and yet then I'm hit with a foyer request. It generates 10,000 documents. I review things for disclosure and every time a board of education member has put something in writing that they should not have put into writing and it either means I have to settle a legal case very differently or they have egg on their face. So do not put anything in writing you would not want the Hartford current to see, you would not want your colleagues to see.
037You would not want Dr. MRI to see or your peer board members to see. If that's the one thing you take from tonight, please remember that before you look to put it in writing. So a meeting, let's also talk about a meeting. So right now this is a meeting of the board, right? Because we have convened a quorum of a public agency. You are a public agency as a local board of ed. You have five of your nine board members here. That means a quorum. But also a meeting can be a communication of a quorum. So that means that if the five of you started text messaging each other about whether or not you're going to support the implementation of a turf field and you discuss business and how you might vote on that, that's
038going to be problematic. Why? >> It's right. >> Correct. So all meetings have to be posted. They have to be open to the public. If a quorum of you are going back and forth through email or through text communications, um that is an illegal meeting because that is a conversation that the public should have access to and they don't. Now, what if Jessica and Matt are going back and forth on emails or text messages about the same thing? Is that an illegal meeting? if the two of them go back and forth. No. But are their text messages or their emails subject to disclosure? Yes. So you have to be very thoughtful about that. Okay. Um so I can briefly talk about just the types of meeting very quickly and then I'm just going to go
039into executive sessions and then some communications among board members. Three types of meetings. Our regular, our special and our emergency meetings. Our regular meetings are filed every year with our town clerk as of January 31st for the ensuing year. So you should basically already know what your regular meetings are for the full calendar year. All those agendas have to be posted at least 24 hours in advance. Unless it is all being done remotely, then you have to give 48 hours advanced notice and that's a postcoid rule. minutes have to be made available for public inspection within seven days of the meeting. And if tonight was a regular meeting, you wanted to talk about, let's say, a co-op for the soccer team and you forgot to put it on the agenda, you would legally have the
040right to do that if twothirds of the board members present in voting said, "Yes, I want to add a new business item." Contrast that with a special meeting where you cannot do that. So, if this were a special meeting of the board and you forgot to put that on the agenda item, you're out of luck. Same thing with a special meeting, 24 hours notice before the meeting convenes, but it doesn't have to be part of our list of regular meetings with the town clerk there. Yeah, of course. So, so today I was watching all these groups at the cave meeting with so many members of their boards of education at the me at the training and I think some of them probably would have that would have constituted a quorum if they had five or
041six people at the cape training. >> But that's okay. >> Is a training an exception? >> Well, because they're not conducting board business related to their board. So you can go to a social gathering without posting that as a meeting provided you're not taking advantage of that situation. So if the six of you are invited to a cade presentation and six of you go, that is not an illegal meeting because you're not conducting business of the Cromwell Board of Ed. However, if you take advantage of the fact that six of you were there and you start talking about how you want to vote on an issue or um other issues that are coming up on future agendas or you want to talk about Dr. MR's performance, that's going to be construed as an illegal meeting
042because you've taken advantage of the situation. Um emergency meetings, I would just say nothing is ever an emergency. Even if you think it is, it's not. The Freedom of Information Commission is not going to think it's an emergency meeting. The only time I've seen this is when there's been something catastrophic. You always just post for a special meeting 24 hours advanced notice. What does a meeting not include? Um, so we know when we have to post for meetings. We know when we have to comply for FOYA. A personnel search committee. If Dr. Macker, when Dr. Macker retires in 20 years, 20 years >> an example. >> Well, the only time you're gonna appoint a personnel search committee will be here 20 years. >> The only time you're going to appoint a personal search committee is
043when you're looking for a superintendent. So, I can't use a different example, but you can appoint the entire board to serve on the personnel search committee and then you don't have to comply with FOYA except when you appoint the final candidate. So that means you can have meetings and interviews with potential candidates and you don't have to post and those are not meetings that are open to the public up until you select the final candidate. The theory behind that being if I'm applying for the job that shouldn't impact my livelihood and people shouldn't know that I'm a candidate for a job because let's say I'm working over in region 15 that could hurt my livelihood in region 15 if I'm not the successful candidate. So that's really the theory behind it. a chance meeting like
044we talked about um Alicia or a social meeting you you absolutely can go provided you're not discussing matters related to official business collective bargaining so Donna I know you were a teacher uh Jessica I don't I don't know your professional background but all of your employees here with the exception of a few central office employees are unionized which means you will be negotiating union contracts and the terms and conditions of their employment all of Those meetings are called non-me. So, you don't have to post for those meetings. Um, and they're not open to the public. A caucus. Now, here's where people get this wrong. The caucus only pertains to the local board of ed. So, let's say the Republicans want a caucus. Absolutely fine. You don't have to post for it. But if you want
045to invite the Republican town chair into that meeting, that's problematic because the rep >> because he is outside or she is outside the board of ed. I've had people ask me to come talk to their caucuses and I've said I can't go because I'm not a member of the local board of ed and that would wave your right to the caucus privilege. Now, what if I share physical tangible information in the caucus? Is that exempt from disclosure because it was shared in the caucus? No. So if it's information that would otherwise be subject to disclosure, you can't hide behind the fact that you met in a caucus to say I don't have to share this information. People get that confused a lot to say, well, I was in a caucus, so I shouldn't have to
046share my agenda for that meeting. Yes, if it's asked for, you do have to share that. Um, let me just briefly talk about executive session because I I know we're running out of time and Alicia asked about this. I would say executive session, this is the only time that you're able to have private meetings to talk about business that should be at the moment kept from the public. It's the right thing at the time because you need some time to process or deliberate on the matter. I always see people put on their agenda discussion concerning personnel matters that is legally insufficient and that is a violation of FOYA. The only time you can discuss a personnel matter is when you're actually discussing the appointment, employment, performance, evaluation, health, or dismissal of a public employee or
047a board of education member. But again, the only employee you're really discussing is Dr. Mackery. So, this isn't going to happen for you a lot where you're actually using the personnel matter exception unless you might be voting on the facility director's contract or the assistant superintendent's contract. That might be appropriate. However, that is subject to the individual's right to have the discussion held in public. So, if you wanted to review Dr. Mach's contract, you have to tell her that she has the right to have the discussion held in open session. She's going to decline because no one's going to want that done in open session. So, she declines and says, "Go ahead, talk about an executive session." But then she demands to be at your executive session. Does she have the right to demand to
048be at your executive session? She does not. She only has the right to tell you what has to be done in open session. you are free to invite her for some, all, or none of that executive session. Now, a case that just came out of the Hampton Board of Ed, which is the worst decision I've ever seen at FOYA, and it was my case, and I did lose this case, and it doesn't make any sense to me. >> Well, listen to this. >> You would listen to this because you'll be like, "What?" So, a board of education, so a superintendent of schools, and this is all public because it's a 4year hearing, so I could share it. Um, a superintendent was asked to come into executive session. As you know, you have to invite people
049into executive session. The law says, I invite people into executive session who will be sharing uh helpful testimony or opinion on the matter that's being discussed. Everyone invites her superintendent of schools in for every single executive session. This superintendent of schools was being invited in to talk about this ongoing litigation and she was serving as the liaison between the insurance council and the board. Obviously, it was anticipated that she might have helpful testimony or opinion to share on the matter. She actually didn't say anything in the executive session. The lawyer just spoke, but that happens all the time. A board of education member in that executive session filed a complaint against his own board to say that superintendent should never have been invited in because she didn't share any testimony or opinion and she only
050should have been in for the part where she was going to say something. But how does she know what to say if she can't hear the information to respond to? So my argument was this is crazy. They anticipated that she would have something thoughtful to share. She's serving as the liaison for the care for the case. Just because she didn't actually say something doesn't mean she wasn't going to. And now are you saying come in for two minutes, leave for two minutes, come back for two minutes only when you're talking. I mean, that's crazy. But yes, that was the logic of the commission. >> I will always say something. >> Yeah, you have to worry about that. >> It's insane. And it would be like Matt, you saying, "Okay, Enza, you're done speaking. Leave. >>
051We'll tell you when to come back to speak, but you can't hear any of the information. So, how do you respond to it?" So, you can see why I thought my case was like >> a slam dunk. >> Correct. >> It was crazy. >> Who was the commission? >> So, it's the FOI commission. And so, it was a hearing officer. And so we challenged the hearing officer's decision and then the commission upheld her. And then I the district didn't want to file it in court, which makes sense because it's a lot of money. But just something to keep in mind of with executive sessions, but it only happened because a board member filed the complaint against his other board members. So I don't know that this will happen again. But >> right, isn't it? It's
052crazy. You can also talk about pending claims and litigation, but you have to actually be being sued. So the threat of litigation is not enough. And you also have to name the case. So I can't just say we're talking about a pending claim. I have to say we're talking about So we had a situation here in Cromwell just a few months ago where you had an OCR matter related to transgender athlet transgender students participating in athletics. I drafted uh an attorney client communication giving you legal advice on how to address that matter. That's an appropriate executive session because you're using my legal advice in my opinion. But I can't just say attorney client communication. We had to write attorney client communication related to the OCR matter pertaining to student athletics. You have to give some
053description just like I have to give some description about the pending claim or litigation. You can talk about security strategy, personnel and devices for obvious reasons in executive session. And then also confidential records like an attorney client communication or student records if we're in a student expulsion hearing or potentially evaluative materials if we're in some type of due process hearing with a staff member. Um, and then I just want to talk was there anything else you wanted me to talk about with executive session? >> Okay. Yeah. >> So technically, no. Because if it's discussed in executive session, you have to be really thoughtful about that. So what I would say there, Alan, is I wouldn't have you do it. I'd have Alicia do it, right? like if there's an understand but Alicia really should only
054be talking to the board member right and we should know and at least ask that the board member is not on speaker phone with their kids in the car sometimes people want to participate so legally as board members postcoid you have the right to participate remotely you absolutely I can still attend an executive session remotely I legally have the right to do that now but I think that you can demand that someone be on the video so that you can make sure there's no one walking behind or sitting there with them listening to the executive session. Yeah, Matt, >> could you hold session. >> Yeah, as long as it's um >> as long as it's an appropriate executive session. So if you're discussing >> question >> absolutely because you're getting them up to speed >>
055on what your security protocols are. So that's so this actually came up really >> right >> yes to get them up to speed. Yep. what happened two years ago in a different executive session because >> yes on that one could we in that same meeting say we will cover that in executive session or do and and then hold an executive session if we haven't noticed that we're going into >> so it's an excellent question so >> otherwise it's going to sit and fester until we can have the exe >> if it is a special meeting no right because you can't add a new business item >> okay >> whether something says executive session on the agenda actually has nothing to do with FOYA. Putting executive session is a professional courtesy to your audience so that
056they can anticipate that you may be going into executive session. Executive session is the status of a meeting. It's not an agenda item. But if I don't have the right agenda item, then that would be inappropriate because I can only go into an executive session with the appropriate agenda items as I previously listed. So, in other words, I can't just say if it's a special meeting and there's no security strategy listed on the agenda, I cannot go into executive session. If it's a special meeting and it just says discussion concerning security strategy, you absolutely can ask for the executive session because that's an appropriate executive session matter even though you haven't put executive session on the agenda. But I always recommend that you put proposed for executive session so that the audience knows they might
057be asked to leave. Um, and I say proposed rather than just executive session because technically you have to vote to go into executive session. So you're not pre-ordaining the votes. Does that make sense? >> Okay. >> We have an executive session where we're not 100% sure if we should or we shouldn't. We always call Jessica and ask for the wording of how to get into executive session to make sure we're following procedure. >> I would say that's that's the one area where I do see a lot of violations of FOYA. Not here, but in general with how people are going into executive session. Also, when I come out of executive session, I just declare. I don't vote to come out because that's an illegal vote because I'm voting in close session. >> Yes. I was
058correct on that. >> So there's a lot more. I think I'll just close with this one scenario if that's okay because this is also relatively new and so I think it's important for for board members to just understand this and then it's 10:00 so I can answer any questions or I I can come back. But this one scenario I think is important. The Nutmeg board has just convened its February meeting. The main item on the agenda is the adoption of the board budget. The superintendent is presenting a PowerPoint reflecting some fine-tuning she did on the budget following a budget workshop last week. Board member Tommy Texters heard enough. Tommy texts board member Penny Pincher saying we told her in no uncertain terms that she was not to reduce the line item for high school sports.
059Can't wait for her performance review. Penny Pincher responds, "That's for sure." And she still has those two new social worker positions in the budget where her priorities we should vote this BS down. The day after the board meeting, Ronnie reporter sends an email to the board chair. Just a heads up that I'm filing a complaint with the foyer commission about the board meeting last night. Two of your board members were having their own little private chat during the budget discussion. I guess it will take a foyer complaint to put an end to this. Oh, and please consider this email to be my foyer request for the text messages between Tommy Textter and Penny Pincher during the meeting last night. So, first question, will Ronnie reporter get anywhere with his foyer request? Will he get those
060text messages? Should he get those text messages under the law? Yes. Because it's specifically related to the board's budget. So, that is a matter that's within your jurisdiction and you can't hide behind your own personal phone. If you're using your personal phone to text about board business, it's all fair game. So that's the first question. So we know we have to disclose those text messages. But what about a complaint? He's saying two board members are texting one another. So that's not a quorum. Is that a foyer violation? Because the two board members are texting at the meeting, >> right? anything on a piece of paper. >> Well, it's not just that it's FOIable because it's certainly FOIable. Is it a FOYA violation to be texting with one other board member at the board meeting? It
061is. And some people get confused about this because they're saying, well, it wasn't a quorum. And certainly outside of a meeting, Jessica and Matt can text each other about the superintendent's priorities. Is still going to be subject to disclosure if requested. The difference here is you've engaged in what's called secretive conduct during a public meeting and that conversation should have been done in a transparent manner. >> So what if >> I keep I keep forgetting that we're in public session. I apologize. >> All right. So let's say for example that um Kelly and I Yeah. Kelly and I are friends. Haven't been for a while. So, let's say that um we have some outside of outside of the board, outside of the school element, we have some common friend and I text Kelly during the
062meeting when there's kind of a lull in that's going on and I say, "Hey, um you know, are you going to to Jennifer's holiday party this weekend?" >> Non-issue because it's not a board business item. They were specifically in a meeting talking about the budget >> and right about what's happening in the school, >> trashing the superintendent and her priorities about the budget. If you're just saying, "Hey, Kelly, you know, are you going to the soccer game this weekend?" First of all, that wouldn't even be subject to disclosure, right? >> Because that's your personal business. And so, I would never tell you to disclose those. I would say that's not board business. It's only if I'm I'm I'm literally engaging in secret conduct on the matter that's being discussed in the meeting. >> Yeah. Yeah.
063I've been involved in this before on the other end. >> Okay. So, I just want people to know that you can't say, well, it wasn't a quorum. >> I just want to make sure like if I'm sending like let's say I'm, you know, texting Allan, hey, want to play golf on Sunday? >> Totally fine. >> Okay. >> Now, I can't say that Ronnie the reporter won't think you're up to something sinister. >> Right. [laughter] Right. >> But Yeah. >> Yeah. But if I disclose, here's the message I sent him. And don't you know, >> 100%. >> Go ahead, pal. Have at it. >> Right. Like I don't legally have to disclose it, but in full transparency, here it is. I asked him if he wanted to golf. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I know it's
064late, but I've got one more thing that I think is helpful for clarification. >> Communic because this stuck with me when you said it two years ago. Communication goes either through, if you have a question, through board chair and then to Dr. Machi, but never directly to what whoever the administrator is. If you have a an issue with construction, you're not going to just call Claudia 100%. And that was Matt's question in the beginning. 100%. >> Everything funnels through Dr. Mackery. Everything really should funnel through Alicia to Dr. Mackery, right? And then Dr. Macker can send unilateral communications to the board filling them in on things. No reply all because then we might be engaging in a legal meeting on substantive discussion. But that really should be the chain of command. Dr. Macker should know
065that Allan and Matt have gone to Alicia to raise an issue and then Alicia is bringing it to Dr. Mackery and then Dr. Macker is going to let the full board know here's what's going on with that matter so that she's not responding to nine different people nine different times in nine different ways. Right? We want to be respectful of Dr. MR's time and energy on that. >> So, one of the things they said at the CAB meeting today was that board members in very well intentioned to have a lot of data requests and the data requests can sometimes be incredibly overwhelming for staff. >> Unbelievable. >> And that should get funneled through the chair to determine the reasonleness of the data requests. Now, imagine a board member could say, >> "I don't like it
066that you stopped my data request from going forward and now I'm going to file a foyer request." that could happen, but ideally data requests are reasonable and take into account the other obligations placed on top of administrators. But another good point, so that's entirely true. And another thing that you could say, so let's say you said, look, I don't think your data request is reasonable. She's got other priorities. Even if they went through the FOYA route, we still under FOYA could take the same position that this is so voluminous. We'll get to it, but I'm trying to educate 2,000 students and oversee a thousand staff members. So, it's not a priority and we certainly can take that position even through the foyer request. >> So, just something to note. Um, I'm I'm pretty confident that
067our own bylaws for this board actually state that any board member can go to any um anyone in a leadership position in the district to request information. >> We are going to have to look at that because I'm I am very confident that that policy >> and we should absolutely change that. >> Bylaws, we haven't done that. We we ours do you have our 9,000 series? >> We never switch. We haven't switched to them yet because the board didn't >> I was going to say we that wouldn't be in our series >> and that that actually that probably needs to be on on an agenda coming up. >> Okay. So are we're technically not in a No, we're still in a a meeting. >> We're in a public meeting. >> So we can make that
068recommendation for the policy committee to look at the bylaws but also look at the 9000 series recommendations. >> Well, we can send you our model. >> We have them. >> You have our model 9,000. They're right on my desk. Perfect. Can we look if that's the if Matt's recollection is correct, can we put that on the next policy committee agenda and then we didn't schedule >> agenda is gonna be robust. >> Yes, but this is a concern. That's a problem. >> Okay. Might want to add a half hour. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I gave it to you in the folder that I gave you. Oh my. >> But I can also send it to you electronically if you want it electronically. >> No, I prefer it. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> You thought I just
069gave you a pretty folder. [laughter] >> I never gave you a lot of paper. >> I'm sorry, Donna, that you didn't realize I gave that to you. I'm sorry. >> Probably would have been helpful for you. >> I'm not going to take back my paper. >> I'm not going to take it back. And you can keep that presentation. >> Thank Thank you, Jess. Much appreciated. If folks have additional questions that did not get answered and you want to get them to me, I can get them to Jess. >> She's excellent. >> Okay. So, can we have a motion to adjourn our meeting, please? >> So moved. >> All right. Second. Beautiful.